Discipline Is the Key to Building Wealth

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today.
Open phones at 888-825-5225. You jump in.
We'll talk about your life and your money. Emily is in Jacksonville, Florida.
Hi, Emily. How are you? Hi.
How are you guys doing today? Better than I deserve. What's up? So quick question.
I've been dating a lovely young man for about nine months and we had a random conversation that came up about retirement savings. I'm a big saver so I'm really into I have 401k and a Roth IRA and his response was that all that matters is working and making money now and that 401ks are a scam.
And I just want to know what the best way to approach this conversation is to try to help him maybe understand the importance of saving for retirement. Did you ask him why he thinks they're a scam? Was there any kind of follow-up on that particular classification of it? Not necessarily.
Actually, he moved here from Albania six years ago, and he just became a citizen this year. How old is he? He's 32, and I'm 30.
Okay. Well, I mean, what he's saying is without – I mean, I don't know why he thinks 401ks in particular are a scam, but what he's saying is, is that I came from an area where we are living hand to mouth and thinking about the future is not something I want to do.
I want to just enjoy the moment because the way the situation I grew up in, there might not be a next moment for whatever reason. I don't know.
I'm guessing, okay? I'm going to try to give him a break here because what he's saying is basically he's saying, I'm immature and I don't want to think about the future. Right.
And we can give him a lot of grace as to why he might be in that based on, you know, I mean, I don't know what the situation was in his area of Albania. I'm not privy to that, but I can guess that maybe the instability politically or whatever, safety-wise or whatever in the area he was in has influenced this viewpoint.
Agreed?

Agreed. politically or whatever uh safety wise or whatever in that in the area he was in has influenced this viewpoint agreed agreed but it is a broken and stupid and immature viewpoint regardless of how he got there regardless how he got there okay and so that's a problem for you because you get to live with someone who's going to do no planning for the future,

which guarantees your future sucks. Right.
That's a problem. So that has to be solved relationally going forward.
So we have to solve for this and walk him out of that or walk away from him. Yeah, I'm going to recommend, Emily.
I'm going back to the days when I taught all three of my kids to ride a bike. and if in fact he is truly scared of this product,

401k, because he doesn't understand it, maybe there was corruption, all the things that Dave pointed out. If, in fact, he's truly afraid of it, and that's why he calls it a scam, then, in fact, now you can deal with fear because he doesn't understand it.
So it's like teaching someone to ride a a bike they're scared to death to ride a bike so what do you do you put training wheels on first right and then you move from training wheels to i would hold the back of the seat and i would run with them for a bit the point is this is going to be a gradual teaching process for you i think before we talk about this relationship being permanent that's right right okay now and so i'll give you another example that that runs parallel okay if you come from a um latin american country where the uh where the banking system is full of fraud and is unstable and doesn't have an fdic underpinning and people lose their money when the bank goes broke like they did in the wild wild west in America if you come from one of those Latin American countries and you come here it's not unusual at all for that people from people from that type of a culture to have a deep distrust of banks and yet the banking system in America even though i hate banks but i mean it's not your money's not unsafe in a bank in america that's an absurd idea but it's based on where they come from not based on reality now if you're going to marry someone who says i'm going to stack two hundred thousand dollars under our mattress in cash because I refuse to accept the fact that American banks are safe based on the country I grew up in.

They're not safe.

Then that's not marriage material.

You're marrying someone that has not adapted well to the new culture that they live in.

And you're going to have problems as a result and shortages and issues. And you know you've got to make they have to make the transformation uh if that's what it is if it's simple immaturity i'm 14 years old and i'm going to live for friday thank god it's friday party for the weekend and i meet 57 year old americans who do that okay they have no where there is no vision the people perish and and they end up retiring and trying to live on social security and griping and whining because all the opportunity is gone in america because they drank theirs on friday night because they were so freaking childish now i meet those that are americans that are 57 years old you don't want to be married to that guy you know 25 years from now agreed agreed yes sir so i think you got to work i think you're wise to bring the question up and you got to work through this with him uh or i'm going to be your old ugly uncle dave and say i love you don't marry this guy ain't worth it yes i appreciate I appreciate all the advice.
Thank you so much. That's a really cool question.
It really is. I would take him to your SmartVestor Pro if you have one, if you don't need to get one.
But I would literally take him in there, and I'd honor all of his questions. If, in fact, and Dave and I don't know, but if, in fact, he's scared, I think the best way to help someone who's scared is to honor their fear.
Well, there's two types of fear. What are you afraid of? False evidence appearing real.
That's right. Which is, you know, I fell on my bicycle the last time you let go of the seat and I skinned my knee.
So the next time you let go, I'm going to die. That's right.
That's false evidence appearing real. You know, actual fear is of something that is logical.
If you're standing in the middle of the interstate and 18 wheelers coming at you at 100 miles an hour, you should move. That's right.
That's actual fear. You're going to die.
You know, that's a lot different, though. And so this is a this is false evidence appearing real or it's immaturity.
I don't know which. And but it's one of those two things.
And either way, you got to deal with it to go forward. So we got to go, we got to drill down.
We got to get the ground to zero on this and then work our way out. Really good question.
And I just want to point out again, when you're in a relationship and you're not on the same page and it's really fear holding the spouse or a boyfriend or girlfriend back, honor their questions. Don't dismiss them.
Don't always try to explain them. Let them sit in that and ask the questions and get with somebody a third party.
In this case, a SmartVestor Pro who can answer every question about fraud and anything like that. And then hopefully they get there and the light bulb goes off.
And now we're on the same page. Yeah, it's tempting to roll your eyes at something that's stupid.
That's right. But you can't.
You got to honor it and go, okay, there's a reason for this. And then let's get to the root of why and can we solve for it so we can go forward? Because we're not aligned on what reality is here.
And when you can't align on reality, you have a problem. This is The Ramsey Show.
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Thank you for joining us America. I'm Dave Ramsey.
Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality is my co-host number one best-selling author and a host of a brand new show that's blasted off. I mean, super fast on Ramsey networks called front row seat, where he does long formform interviews with people that will help you with their information change your life.
Very interesting interviews. You won't want to miss these, I promise you.
Front Row Seat on the Ramsey Networks. All right, Jacob is in Dallas.
Hi, Jacob, how are you? I'm doing good. Thank you for taking my call.
Sure, what's up? Yes. So I'm going through your baby step program currently.
I, I'm past baby step one. I have about 3000 in savings.
I'm on baby step two, paying off debt to be debt free. I currently have about 10,000 in debt.
But I'm, my question is, is after I pay off all my debt and I'm looking at baby step three to save three to six months of emergency fund, you know, but I ultimately want to be able to buy a house. And with our current financial situation, to me, I just don't see a way of being able to get there, even following the baby steps.
How much debt have you paid off so far? So it was a little over $10,000. I've already paid off about a $1,500 toll bill.
I paid off a $343 bill in collections. I'm looking at paying off another $700 bill in collections.
So you paid off $2,000 or $3,000 of your $10,000 so far. How long have you been working on this? This actually was more recently.
So I started doing this this month with my tax return. So in one month with a tax return and by focusing and being on a budget, you moved the needle $3,000.
Yes. How does that translate to being hopeless about the future? That doesn't make sense.
You're killing it. I'm proud of you.
Yeah, I appreciate it. But I have about $9,000 left in a vehicle loan, which should be paid off in a year and a half if I just keep making the payments as I am.
You paid off. I know, but we're not going to make the payments as you are.
You're going to roll up your sleeves. You're going to sell so much stuff the kids think they're next.
We're going to get this stupid car paid off you got to work an extra job fine stay out of a restaurant and quit going on vacation get your dadgum car paid off so you can build an emergency fund so you can get a house understood i mean you you've already moved the needle three thousand dollars that's a that gives me reason for hope more than you seem to have and you've got three thousand in savings baby step one is actually just one thousand so you've got two grand that you need got $3,000 in savings. Baby Step 1 is actually just $1,000.

So you've got $2,000 that you need to be putting on that car today.

Exactly.

Okay.

So this is all new to you.

This whole Ramsey thing is new to you, isn't it, Jacob?

Your name has definitely gone around my church a lot.

No, but I'm talking about you actually looking at the information

and applying it as new.

Yes. Yeah, okay.
Because it sounds like you're fresh in this. That's fine.
I get that. The thing that I've experienced in walking with people now for 30 years doing the baby steps in detail exactly as we teach them.
Okay, so you stop all 401K contributions temporarily. You don't get any more tax refunds because you adjust your W-2 to where your take home pay is accurate.
If you get a refund, it's because they're taking too much out of your check. Santa Claus doesn't live in Washington, D.C.
Okay, it's your money. You got it back with no interest a year later.
So go ahead and adjust your W-2. Stop putting money in 401k.
Stop eating out. Stop going on vacation.
Take an extra job, sell everything in sight that we can get our hands on, and let's get this car paid off as soon as possible. When that is paid off, then build your emergency fund very quickly, and then start talking about saving.
Now, if you start saying, Dave, it's going to take me three years to pay off $9,000 because of my lack of focus and sacrifice, then, yeah, you do have a problem. You may never get a house because you're living without really leaning in and focusing on this and sitting down with your spouse and saying, we're going to sacrifice.
We're going to live like no one else so that later we can live and give like no one else. As I've walked with people doing that, Jacob, they pick up momentum so that by the time the car is paid off, the emergency fund is in place, and they come in here and do a debt-free scream, they almost always have seen an increase in income.
The number of people that their income went up dramatically while they're getting out of debt is substantial because they're just focusing on it. They're going, I need more money.
I got to get this moving. And so I predict that if you follow the stuff exactly as we teach, that five years from now, you will be making $130,000.
You will be debt-free. You'll have an emergency fund in place, and you'll have a good, strong down payment have already been made on a house with a 15-year fix that's a good starter house and you're going to be putting 15% of your income into retirement and be on your way to be a millionaire that's how what we show people how to do and you can do that with what you're doing but you're not going to do it sitting there half you know it takes me three years to pay off nine thousand dollars that that's you know no that's not okay you're going to lean into it harder than that.
Hang on. I'll send you a copy of the book, The Total Money Makeover, which gives you every detail of what to stop doing, start doing, and when to do it on the baby steps.
And if you'll do that formula exactly and not try to make it Jacob's plan, but instead just do what you're told, it's going to blow your mind how you'll move the needle and And get your spouse on board with you, Jacob. That's a big deal.
Yeah, I just would underscore what Dave said. We have heard so many debt-free screams just right across the studio here.
And every time their income goes up, I've never, I'm not saying it's always the case, but I've never heard one. 90 something percent.
And to your point, it is the momentum, mental and emotional momentum of the baby steps is what's the genius about it. When you start ticking off the debts, even in baby step two, momentum takes place, and good things happen to people who have momentum.
I'm just telling you, it's not a mystery. It's just because you're happening to life instead of life happening to you.
Well, and we know we're in momentum.

Hey, throw that book in, Christian, as well.

Throw in the momentum theorem because momentum theorem says this.

It's a thing we developed to try to communicate that idea.

Focused intensity over time multiplied by God and his blessings creates unstoppable momentum. But wandering along doesn't create any momentum.
You know, dancing through the Rose Garden doesn't create any momentum. It's you, as we say in Tennessee and the country, you lay your ears back and you get into it, right? You stick your face in there and go.
You stick your face right in the middle of the war, right in the middle of the battle, and you get after it. And that's when stuff starts to move.
But just going, well, I think I can just, no, no, you can't do it. You got to have more energy and focus in your voice than that and in your actions.
And Jacob, you can do all of that. You've got the ability.
You've already, just in the limited time you've had some focus, paid off $3,000 just because you thought i mean that's just the power of thinking about just the power of intentionality it's very good i'm proud of you all right william is on the line in pittsburgh hey william what's up how's it going i'm doing good how about yourself better than i deserve how can i help well uh what inspired this phone call is i'm getting a bonus check it should clear on friday i will clear 3 800 i'm still working on paying off debt should and my truck broke down earlier this week and i'm i found out i'm gonna be losing my job sometime after one year but before two years how much debt have you got?

About $60,000.

On what?

Lines of credit, that kind of stuff.

How much on your cars?

Nothing.

They're both paid off.

What's it going to take to fix the truck?

$2,000.

Well, there's two of your $3,800, right?

Correct. Okay.
All right. you what do you say you make i make uh with the overtime about 58 or 58 000 a year what do you do i mentioned i was trying to start a landscaping business as well i'm sorry if i didn't no but i mean you're trying to figure out what to do that makes sense if you're going to lose your job.
It's going to be a while before you lose it, and you make $58,000.

So what's it take to get the landscaping business going?

I need $400, and I know that sounds a little bit ridiculous,

but I used to own a landscaping business, and I shut it down.

But I already have all the trucks, the trailers, the equipment.

I just need to do a few tune-ups and a couple carburetors is all I need to get that up. Well, you ought to make $400 in a week doing that if you do the tune-up, right? Correct.
Yeah, go do that. I should be able to do about $800 a week.
Yeah, go do that, and then let's get this business up to $8,000 a week before you quit, before you get fired. You quit before you get fired, right? Because you're making so much money in landscaping.
That's right. Yeah, definitely.
Let's get this thing tooled up and get going. I'm in.
That's what I would do if I were you. Good question.
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That's A-L-D-I dot U-S. I was just talking about Ken Coleman's front row seat a minute ago.
One of the guests recently was Saul Hill Bloom, and Saul Hill has a brand new New York Times bestselling book out, The Five Types of Wealth. And we asked him to stop by while he was hanging out with the Ramsey team here and be a part of our show today here live on the air.
Welcome, Sahil. Thank you so much for having me.
Congratulations on all your success, man. Well done.
Thanks. Blowing up.
I appreciate it. I appreciate it.
It's fun to see the impact in the world, you know. Yeah.
Writing a book's a pain in the butt, but the results of it and how long it sticks around, it makes it worth doing. Yeah.
Something permanent about a book versus anything else that you do, social media, writing, et cetera, just does feel different. Something very analog in a digital world, for sure.
Very cool stuff. All right.
Five types of wealth. I got to hear, what are they? So the five types of wealth that I talk about in the book,

time wealth, all about freedom.

Social wealth, it's about your relationships.

Mental wealth is about purpose and growth.

Physical wealth is about your health.

And then financial wealth is about money,

what we all know and love.

Okay.

And I'm going to guess and say you figured out

that if those aren't all working, that none of them work. Yeah, the whole idea- As well, anyway.
Exactly. The whole idea is that our default scoreboard, the way we have traditionally measured our lives, has been incomplete.
And that has been entirely based around money. And that is part of building a wealthy, a fulfilling life.
But it's not the only part. And for a lot of people, the chase and the obsessive quest to do the one thing comes at the expense of everything else.
You get the Pyrrhic victory. You win the battle, but you lose the much bigger picture war.
And so focusing on a more comprehensive scoreboard, a way to measure your life across all of these areas, that's how you go and build the comprehensively wealthy life that we all really want. You know, that's, we often get a question about work-life balance in the middle of getting out of debt.
You know, you're going scorched earth while you're getting out of debt following our process. And as if there's no way to have high quality relationships or even a social life while you work hard.
There's this idea that's on a spectrum and there's an automatic trade-off. If I get a bigger piece of that, there's a smaller piece of that.
It's not always that way, is it? No, I totally agree with you. The whole idea of even saying work-life balance fundamentally places the two things in tension and that tension is made up.
The reality is that the two can

actually be part of a harmony, right? I mean, your family is on the mission with you that you are on when it comes to your work. And they should feel that way because it's part of building a life together that you're on that journey.
Your wife did the cover of the book. My wife did the cover of the book.
Exactly right. We're all on this mission together.
I do think that the mindset of on-off switches in life is one of the most dangerous mindsets we all have. We say, oh, I'm going to be focusing on making money.
So too bad, health, too bad, family, friends, all those things get shut off. The reality is that you can just have them on dimmer switches.
Just because you're prioritizing making money and getting out of the paycheck to paycheck cycle doesn't mean you shut off these other areas. Anything above zero compounds in all of these areas of life, just as much as it does with your financial future.
You know, we were talking about this when you were on front row seat, but I want to bring this up because I think there's clear data now. We can look at CEOs.
We see a correlation between healthy people and actually financially wealthy as well. It's pretty interesting how that correlates.
And I think a lot of people overlook their physical health, right? Because they go, hey, I'm doing well here. What have you seen on that? And how do you correlate those in the book? Over and over again, we find that physical wealth, your health and vitality is a catalyst for every single other area of your life.
When you take care of yourself, fundamentally what you're doing is taking back agency over your life. You believe that you have the ability to take an action, do something for your physical health and create a desired outcome.
That belief that you have instilled in yourself through the physical pursuits applies to everything else that you do. You now believe that you can take an action at work and create a desired outcome, that you can

take an action financially, create a desired outcome, that you can do that in your relationships.

All of that is about reassuming agency. I can reassume the hero in the story's role.

I can take control of this. I can control the controllables.
The number of times we've,

over the 35 years doing this, that someone says, oh, while I was getting out of debt, my marriage vastly improved and I lost 40 pounds, not from not eating, but from physically taking care of myself. And so it turns out discipline begets discipline is one saying that fits right with that.
Yeah, absolutely. And you become a different person by taking these actions.
So as a result, you are doing one thing, but it has those ripple effects into every other area of your life. You know, we were talking earlier, Sahil, I want you to share this because we agree on this.
This book has really taken off. It's hit a nerve.
And the title itself is somewhat provocative without trying to be, The Five Types of Wealth. But in America today, we're beginning to see kind of a groundswell, a negative groundswell that's anti-successful people.
Why do you think that's happening? I think that for a lot of people out there, success has become something that they don't feel they have access to. And that is fundamentally giving up your agency, right? You are saying that other people have the opportunity to do things and create success, but I do not.
And so I'm going to bemoan that success because I don't feel I have access to that. If you change one thing about your life, you create that one tiny piece of momentum, reassume that agency, you will no longer believe that.
You will recognize that you have the capacity to take an action and change your life. I would add to that, that as a couple, particularly a young couple, we see them once they lock arms and fix their eyes on the same goal, and then they go slay that dragon together, they start to realize we as a couple can take agency over all these different areas of our life.
And it just builds confidence. The empowerment gives you confidence to go forward.
Time, social, mental, physical, financial, the five types of wealth. Sahil Bloom is our guest.
This is now a seven weeks on the New York Times bestseller. It's a legitimate, very good book and strongly recommend you pick up a transformative guide to design your dream life.
Talk about designing your dream life. It is all about taking deliberate daily actions to actually go and build the life that you want.
The tiny action that you do today is going to be the thing that creates the momentum for tomorrow. The problem is that when you stare at this big wall, you're trying to go create this enormous change in your life.
It's too intimidating. You look at it and you say like, I can't possibly get to the other side of this thing.
You don't have to do that. It's just about creating a little bit of awareness and then taking a tiny bit of action.
Because again, that tiny action is what creates the momentum for you to get a little bit better tomorrow, a little bit better the day after that. When you're staring at the blank screen, I'm going to write a book.
Do you have that same feeling? Absolutely. I better put a word down here fast so that another word comes so that another word comes because otherwise I'm going to be two days staring at this blank screen.
Absolutely. And again, anything above zero compounds the 10 words that you write today, the 10 minutes, but successful, ambitious people are the worst about allowing optimal to get in

the way of beneficial. They say, I'm not going to, I don't have an hour to work out today,

so I'm just not going to work out. I don't have two hours to write, so I'm just not going to

write. I don't have an hour to call my mom, so I'm not going to call her.
The reality is that

a five minute call is better than nothing. A 10 minute walk is better than nothing.
Five minutes

of writing is better than nothing in all areas of your life is better than nothing. Five minutes of writing is better than nothing

in all areas of your life.

Yeah.

So make the call, do the walk.

A walk could lead to a run.

You never know.

So good stuff.

Very good stuff.

Very fun.

And so they can also hear you on your podcast?

No podcast right now,

but maybe one to come soon.

Okay, very cool.

A robust newsletter.

Yes? Newsletter, several times a week. and you can get the book anywhere books are sold.
And I want to point out how do we get the newsletter? Newsletter is at sahilbloom.com. S-A-H-I-L bloom.com.
Very, very good. That's where that book came from, by the way.
I want to brag on him. I had been following you for years because of that newsletter.
And even on X, you would put out these little nuggets and he lives what he believes on that. That's how this book came about.
You tested this content for a long time and now you're seeing the results of it. So I wrote a book with an absolutely horrible title that didn't do very well.
It's called More Than Enough. So answer that question.
What does it mean to have enough? I love the whole idea of enough because fundamentally enough is where you build your best life. The chase for more is a plague.
More is the most dangerous word. The minimalists would love you.
Yes, they would. I love it.
The five types of wealth, Sahil Bloom. Thanks for stopping by, my friend.
Thank you for having me. So proud of your success.
Very well done. This is the Ramsey Show.
All right, Dave, you have some strong opinions. Possibly, yeah.
I think so. Okay, because you really prefer credit unions over big banks.
So why is that? Well, credit unions, for one thing, are non-profit, which means that the members, the customers, own the credit union. So any profits that the credit union makes goes back into customer pricing.
So you get better interest rate on savings, cheaper checking, and so on, that kind of thing. But what's more important than that, though, is the fact that the customer is the owner changes the spirit on the credit union.
So I find very few credit unions that aren't very customer-centric. Yes.
Well, and I think we have found one that is incredible, and that's Fairwinds. They are an incredible credit union that is really out with the heart to help the customer.
You know, that's why we're partnering with them, because they've got a scope to be able to handle the Ramsey audience, and they're the right kind of people with the right kind of values. And they've done a really, really good job with customer service, and the deals that they're offering, the Ramsey tribe is incredible.
Yeah, absolutely. And you're right.
Their customer service is unbelievable. Winston and I just signed up and we got an account.
And I'm not kidding. It took less than five minutes.
It was so user-friendly. The step-by-step approach was unbelievable.
And then the next day, my phone rings and it says Fairwinds on my phone. So I answered it and talked to someone there.
And they said, yeah, they give calls to every new customer. And so again, they just really care about your experience.
And I so, so appreciate that. So again, you guys, I know it can be a pain to switch banks or to open up new accounts, but Fairwinds, again, they make it so easy.
Plus anything that you can do at a traditional branch, you can do with them at fairwinds.org or on their app. And you'll have free access to over

33,000 ATMs. Hey, you guys know how much I hate banks in general.
And so for me to do this is a

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Yeah, you guys, it's so

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Today's question comes from Craig in Delaware. In previous years, you've advised using a tax professional, but lately you've been promoting a software that listeners can use to do their own taxes.
We've had professionals do our taxes for years, so I don't disagree with that advice, but what is the reasoning behind changing your stance on tax preparation? Data. We did a better job than flying by the seat of our pants analyzing who was coming to the website.
So if someone came to the website at RamseySolutions.com and clicked on elp endorsed local provider for tax preparation um when they went to a tax professional and they had a extremely simple return and the tax professional would charge two or three hundred dollars to prepare a return that takes 15 minutes um the people would say no i'm not going to do that and so we were seeing like 60 percent of the leads that went through to the tax professionals uh were not qualified leads meaning the people were they were not in the market to spend that kind of money to do a simple tax return and they would opt out and go do something like TurboTax and and so we weren't serving the listener well and it was aggravating our tax professionals because they were getting about over half of their people calling them were not turning into customers because they were not qualified leads and so the data told us that about half of our audience would prefer to do a quick, easy digital tax return. About half of our audience has a complicated return.
They own a business, they've moved, they've gone through some kind of life change, or they have investments or whatever, and they need a tax professional. own a couple hundred bucks is no big deal to them to have a more complicated return done, and they continue to use the tax professionals.
But basically about 50% of the people in our audience were just saying, bye-bye, you're not helpful to me and to our tax professionals. And so we said, oh, we need to be helpful.
Let's figure out something. Because TurboTax is not really free most of the time.
Most of the time you go in there, they give you some kind of an upcharge, and they promote the snot out of financing. They'll loan you the money against your refund.
They'll send you a credit card. They forget they're there to do taxes and try to sell you a bunch of debt.
And I thought, well, if I can punch that in the nose, I'd like to do that. So simultaneously with serving our customers, we created a product with the tax slayer people and white labeled it.
And the Ramsey Smart Tax is now there to serve the half of the customers we were dumping in the street. And we don't feed them a bunch of crap about credit cards while they're doing it.
Oh, and it's actually what it says it is. Whatever we charge a couple of dollars is not much.
It's that's the number. It's not we don't upcharge you and get you six ways from Sunday on this.
So that's why we did it. Yeah.
And be paying attention, folks. It's two weeks away.
RamseySolutions.com tax by the way that's where you go fabulous product if you have a simple return simple if it's if you don't go to the alp's page and get you a professional just like craig is asking but craig that's a good a great question because really that was what four years ago or something we started working on that but the team came in and said dave we're losing we're not serving half of the people that are asking for help we need to find something to serve them and prior to that i was just like everybody needs a tax professional but i've always had some kind of weird return my whole life because i've been self-employed or straight commission or some kind of a thing going on in my i've had real estate all this other stuff I've always needed, so I couldn't imagine just, you know, with a piece of software and being done, it doesn't occur to me, but it turns out half of our audience has a very simple return. If you don't have a simple return, don't use Ramsey smart tax, get a professional.
But if you have a simple return, don't pay somebody 300 bucks to do something you can do in a few minutes with a simple piece of software for like 30 bucks or something. That's a much better deal for you, and it's a lot faster, and it's very accurate.
That was the other thing. I was worried about it being accurate, and it's extremely accurate.
So good question, sir. Jack is in St.
Louis, Missouri. Hey, Jack, what's up? Hi hi how are you better than i deserve how can i help

well i am uh facing a decision of wanting to move to a bigger more exciting yet more expensive city and i'm trying to rationalize it to myself what's the reason beyond it being exciting or why is it exciting?

Well, so I've lived in, I've been renting in St. Louis for about 10 years.
I've stayed here for school, and then I just happened to get a job here, but never really felt, like, thrilled or passionate about life. St.
Louis is not a small city. Well, I know it's not a small town, you know.

I guess by big city, I mean like big metropolises like New York City or Chicago.

Where do you want to move? Where do you want to move?

I've been looking at Chicago and New York City. Okay, what do you do for a living?

I'm a software engineer. I work remotely making 110 making 110k okay so are you going to keep your current job and move to those cities are you going to try to upgrade uh well i guess that would be a good question like because for example new york city like that would be very difficult um yeah 110k yeah you're gonna live

in a cardboard box and you'll probably have a rat companion at that i'm kidding it's not that bad

but you're gonna have to really think about that cost of living yeah your real estate's gonna double

other cost of living is gonna be higher but not double but and there's another uh fear i have if

i can tell you um i'm 33 i'm not married no kids uh i'm squared away i'm on big step two

Thank you. I'm 33.
I'm not married, no kids. I'm squared away.
I'm big step two, three, and I'm saving 15% for retirement and four. But I don't own any real estate, and I never have.
And so I'm, like, worried that if I'm delaying homeownership to move and making life more expensive, if that's something. Yeah, you would be.
What is it you're wanting to get out of the move? What's the move give you? I guess just invigorated passion and just lighting up my world a little bit. I'm going to tell you something.
I seriously doubt that moving to Chicago or New York in and of itself,

in other words, the proximity to those cities, I don't know that that's going to give you this passion that you're looking for. I mean.
If you don't change other parts of your life, in other words, you're getting excited about work. Okay, so you're single.
You're debt-free. You make 110.
You're 33 years old. You could just move there and live there a month and see what happened.

Leave everything in your apartment.

Just pack a suitcase and go to an Airbnb for a month.

You can afford it.

Yeah, that's true.

And see if it does what you think it's going to do or see if Ken's right.

Okay.

I'm hearing so much uncertainty on you, and that's not a negative.

I'm not criticizing you, but I'm hearing so much uncertainty.

There's no clear why on this, and so I would hold.

I like Dave's idea of kicking the tires and see what it is you're actually searching for,

But I'm going to challenge you that I think what you're searching for is more fulfillment in multiple areas of your life, not about where you live. Yeah, that's true.
I am looking for fulfillment. And, you know, can I tell you something else?

I spent my 20s in grad school living poverty line,

and I spent my early 30s dealing with, like, chronic illness,

and I've just gotten better, and I'm ready to just live.

Yeah, you're ready to, like, backpack Europe or something.

Yeah.

I mean, you're ready for an adventure.

Dave nailed it. That's what's going on.
You're looking for an adventure. An adventure is different than moving.
Yeah. Okay.
So go have some – hey, finance – pile up some cash and go do your remote job from a backpack and go to New York for three weeks and go to Chicago for weeks, and go to San Francisco for three weeks and have an adventure,

and then come back home and sit and pray about it for two weeks and see what you think.

But that's different than loading up the truck and heading to Beverly.

That's different than moving, right?

So that's probably what I'm going to do if I'm in your shoes.

I get it. I get it.

There's a pent-up lust for adventure that's fair and accurate here. You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies and there's too little life insurance or none at all.
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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people

build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host. Phone number is 888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888- bestselling author is my co-host.
Phone number is 888-825-5225. Clara is in Tallahassee, Florida.
Hi, Clara. How are you? I'm good.
How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? This is a career financial question.
So I'll set the question and then I'll give you a little bit background. I've been, am I crazy to turn down a job? So I've been unemployed for five months.
I'm an older worker and financially I'm doing fine. So I could, I'm not in a rush, but I do need a job.
So I've been applying and interviewing for different jobs. This is the first job that I've been offered.
And great people. It is a ministry organization, so good stuff.
Yet, as I'm going through the process, there are just questions that I have, not ethical questions, but just process questions. And I want to turn it down, but I feel, should I turn it down? Because it's the only job I've been offered in five months.
It would require a move across the country, which is big and expensive. And I've done that before, and it's not easy.
So I guess going back to the beginning of this, the career financial questions, great place, great people.

What is the process concerned?

I don't understand.

It's just everything seems like an emergency to them.

So lots of last-minute changes.

And I've worked in an industry where emergency industry, so there's always going to be changes and that's not what I'm implying, but, um, it just seems like everything is last minute and I'm not so sure I want to be in that type of environment. When you say you're fine financially yet you need to work, can you be very specific with us on that from a number standpoint? Because it's going to affect my answer here.
Awesome. Okay.
I have savings that will keep me for about two years. I get a small pension from a previous job, so I can afford to not work for a while, but I want to work.
I'm not ready to retire.

What do you do?

Marketing.

Okay. Are you going to be in a leadership role with this next place?

No, it would be a step or two down.

So you can't help them from that position necessarily clean up their lack of

Thank you. be a step or two down.
So you can't help them from that position necessarily clean up their lack of planning, which is creating emergencies, I think you're saying. There you go.
Unnecessary emergencies. This has got red flags all over it for me, Clara.
And the reason I wanted to know the money situation is because that determines our response here. You would not take this job if you were currently employed.
You wouldn't even consider it. And so for that reason, I'm out.
I would not do this. I would not move across country for a job that you're already concerned about frustrations mounting.
And I think you've got enough wisdom here. I can read between the lines and what you're saying.
Be patient, but I think that it's okay for you to stay where you are, and let's get a bridge job. Let's just find something, even if it's a part-time marketing role.
A remote role. Yeah, remote.
Get active. Get back in the game.
Freelancing. Yeah.
I think there's a lot of freelance opportunities for someone like you. I would keep your chin up.
I'm going to give you a copy of my book called The Proximity Principle. I think it's what you need right now.
I think you need to spend a lot of time getting around the right people and in the right places, and you know who those people are. But I think that's what I'd do.
How old are you? 60. Okay.
Then you already knew the answer to the question. I think I just needed your confirmation.
Yeah, that's right. And I respect you guys.
Thank you. Yeah, your wisdom, the spirit of God inside of you is saying don't do this, and you need to listen to it.
Yeah. Thank you.
That's what's happening. Yeah.
And because you're seeing things there that aren't, you're seeing the symptoms flare up of some deep-rooted problems that are going to drive you bananas and you're not a fit. Yeah.
Yeah, you're right. I just, you know, being out of work, you start not panicking, but you know what I mean? You start getting concerned.
Yeah. If you don't know how to put yourself out there as a freelancer in the digital world get a 14 year old to show you but it's so true it's so true but you can make a lot of money as a marketer right now just sitting remote working a few hours a week from your computer and uh and and that'll even give you more staying power till you land the exact right thing for you to enter into a quality place at the right thing.
So yeah, this is a when in doubt, don't thing right here. When the bell rings, my dad used to say, if that bell is ringing inside your head, listen to the bell.
Listen to the bell. And my old pastor friend of mine, Pastor Don Finto.
Oh, legend. Legend.
He used to tell us, he he's like 90 something years old now. He used to tell us, don't tell, don't say I'm listening to my gut.
Don't call the Holy Spirit a gut. Right.
Yeah. Don't insult him.
So yeah, it's really good. Yeah.
But it's your listen to the bell, listen to your intuition, whatever you want to call it, uh, in this case. And you already know.
Good question. I love it.
Caleb is in St. Louis.
Hey, Caleb, what's up? Hey, it's an honor to speak to you. You too, sir.
How can we help? Hey, I was wondering about selling my classic car to fund my daughter's college fund. What is it? It's a 65 Mustang.
Ooh, what's your asking price? $10,000. Ooh, I might put you on hold.
How did you get it? Sell it to me, Dave. I love a 65 Mustang.
Ken's on his way to St. Louis right now.
I'm not kidding. A mere $10,000.
That's a classic. So how'd you get the car? Okay, so the main issue is it was given to me by my grandpa when I was 15.
I'm now 28. What do you make a year? My household income is about 45,000.
Honestly, if I were in your shoes, I'd take six extra jobs and fund my kids college fund and keep my car. I agree.
It's not an either or. It's not the only way you fund your kids college is sell the car.
Life not that simple sir okay go find some money and 10 grand my grandpa gives me a 65 mustang you know i it's like that's like asking your wife to sell her wedding ring no we don't do that we go find some money by working and doing some other things, working on our career, taking side gigs. What's your wife do for a living? She works at my daughter's Christian school that she goes to, and that pretty much pays for her private schooling.
We're currently in baby step seven, excluding college fund. The house is paid for? Yes, sir.
And you're how old? 28 years old. You haven't paid for a house? No, you definitely don't sell this car yeah not at all how is the 10 even if ken wants it don't sell it well yeah i gotta tell you i was gonna be your huckleberry there i was gonna jump in and help out uh but i'd have to run it by stacy first but in all honesty why is the 10k the the number is that all you've got left in the 529 that you need to fund? It's a baby.
That's what I'm saying. You're not $10,000 off.
It's an odd number. Go get you some money.
Keep the car, man. This is from two guys who have classic cars.
That's okay, but I would tell you to sell it, but this is a priceless thing you can't get back. I have a 1960 Corvette that I bought from a guy.
That's different than your grandpa gave it to you. I agree.
If I get in trouble, the Corvette's gone. Okay? But that's different than grandpa gave it to you.
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I'll say that. And the booster.
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Falling for an April Fool's joke. Could you imagine? Ramsey Solutions is in Big Pharma, baby.
We figured it out. They actually made these vials up for an April Fool's joke.
You guys don't have a job in there? I mean, don't you have work you need to be doing? They got printed up. I mean, somebody in creative actually made Debt Zempic vials.
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Okay, so this is the primary, and then you've got to get the booster shots. Yeah, that's how that works.
Yeah, well, and there's no guarantee you won't get it, but we're told you might not get it. You know how vaccines work, right? So you probably will get it, you won't but you think you would like these you think you think fouchy would like these i don't i don't think that needs to even be part of this conversation it's an april fool's joke now you've left the part of funny and gone to oh sorry i did do the trigger word trigger word that's great very good job creative team with too much time on their hands now Really good.
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I wonder how quick I'm going to get sued for running that. Okay, we'll see.
Just, oh, well, hey, you know, some people don't have a sense of humor. That's all I'm saying.
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Eleanor is in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hey, Eleanor, what's up? Hi, Dave.
Hi, Ken. Big fan of the show and of both of you.
Thanks for having me on. Thank you.
How can we help? So my question is if it would be morally wrong to offer to open 529s for my friend's children but with the stipulation that I get to maintain ownership of the account. And I can give a little bit of background on why

I'm asking that question. So I was listening to the show last month and George and Rachel

had somebody on who had a baby and his brother opened a 529 for the baby and wanted to maintain

ownership of the account. And they felt like that was a strings attached situation.
And so this is

really relevant for me because I've been wanting to do this for a friend of mine with that

Thank you. wanted to maintain ownership of the account, and they felt like that was a strings-attached situation.
And so this is really relevant for me because I've been wanting to do this for a friend of mine with that same stipulation, but now I'm wondering, is it morally wrong to make such an offer? Yeah, let's clarify. There's no such thing as you can maintain ownership.
When you open a 529, it is in the child's name permanently. Right.
You are the custodian. The ability to withdraw from it.
You are the custodian. Right.
Until they're 21, and when they're 21, or I'm sorry, on a 529, when they're 18, it's their money. You have no control after they're 18.
You are not the owner of the account. Can't the owner draw on it with penalties like that though that's my concern you're the custodian you are in control of the account but you no longer own it until they're 18 when they're 18 you disappear and they have 100 agency 100 control okay that's how it'll work.
And so if you want to maintain the control of the account, and you also would be the one that could make the decision to move the investments around inside the 529 if you wanted to, all of that, you're the custodian. You are acting on behalf of the minor but it's not your money anymore you can't take it back okay so then there's nothing wrong with me offering to i'm gonna i'm offering to open a 529 if you can't fund it this year i will fund it but i'm going to leave myself as the custodian the money's, when they turn 18, the money will be theirs.
Okay. And I can't take it back legally, but I do manage it until they turn 18.
That's how it works. And just tell your friend that and ask them if they're okay with that.
That is not morally wrong. Okay, great.
Nor is that controlling if your friends are not handling money well. Yeah, that's my concern.
Or life well or whatever. You know, I mean, like if you've got a – let's say you've got a niece or a nephew or a friend that one of them has got a problem with substance abuse, right? Then this would be a perfectly natural way to do it, and I would want to maintain control.
I'm not going to leave someone that's doing cocaine in charge of a kid's money. Right, exactly.
And so the, you know, uh, or if they're just grossly irresponsible and lazy or whatever, right? Uh, anywhere in there, but, um, you know, if you want to do that now in a different case would be when each of our grandchildren are born, we have responsible children that are their parents that are very good with money. The Ramsey kids, the next generation, Rachel, each of the grandchildren, the parents, me and Mimi, fund the first year.
That's like a tradition. We want to fund the first year of their 529.
But they're the custodians there because there's no issue of addiction or responsibility or whatever right right so i do turn it over in those cases but it's not controlling at all if if it needs to be controlled for the good of the child because what we're dealing with here is we're wanting to benefit the child no one else we're not really worried about anybody else in this scenario uh you're not going to benefit because you've given the money away the parents aren't going to benefit because they have no access to it uh but you're the custodian and that yes that's the only way i would do it in that case good question kay's in lexington hey kay welcome to the ramsey show hi dave hi ken thanks so much for taking my call sure what's up? My husband and I, we have a very comfortable life thanks to the programs that you have. But we have one debt that I think I want to pay down, and my husband says that we probably need to keep it just for tax purposes for the deduction.
Oh, okay. How much do you pay in interest last year? Oh, gosh, $32,000.
Okay, and are you filing a standard deduction or are you filing an itemized return? Well, we are a farm. Are you doing an itemized return? Yes, yes.
Okay, then that $30,000 is deductible. What's your household income? $190,000.
Okay. And so you you are giving the government or you're giving the bank thirty thousand dollars that creates a write-off which saves you 39 percent of thirty thousand dollars so twelve thousand dollars so you're sending the bank thirty thousand to keep from sending the government 12.
Okay. Your husband's wrong.

Okay.

Pay the land off. You see what I'm doing? Yes, I do.
You do not keep something for a tax write-off because you're trading dollars for quarters. It's a bad trade.
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Guys, if you want to help us out, we would appreciate you subscribing, following, leaving a nice five-star review on the show share the show with a friend click the share button click click cut the link out send it to them by email i don't care let them know the ramsey show's out here we appreciate you doing that if you're a business owner or you know someone who is you know running a business is hard once you become self-employed you know what happens you find out you're working for a jerk. When you're self-employed, you know what happens.
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You can get the book at RamseySolutions.com slash store. David is in Houston.
Hi, David. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.
Thank you. I'm in $80,000 of debt after I graduate, and i heard you're the guy to get me with a game plan to get me out of debt wow what's your degree in it's in engineering that's good news so you're an engineer yes what type of engineering are you going to go into? I'm going to be working in oil and gas.
Okay, good. And you've graduated? I'm going to be graduating this semester.
Good. Okay.
Have you lined up the new job? I have. Very anxious about it.
What are you going to make? 120 with a a $10K signing bonus. Awesome.
What did you make last year while you were in school? Only internship money, so not much. Mm-hmm.
Okay. Well done.
So guess what we're going to do next year? Live like an intern. Okay.
Live like a college student? Yeah. Yeah.
I think I just freed up the your $120,000 to pay off your $80,000, including your $10,000 signing bonus you don't get to buy a car with. Okay.
You have to clean up the poop before you can buy a car. Okay.
Does that make sense? Is that logical to you? It does make sense. Let me give you some great news.
Our company, Ramsey Solutions, has worked in this space, helping people with money for 35 years. About five years ago, our research department did an airtight research project studying the largest study of millionaires in North America ever done.
One of the things we asked was, and we figured out was, what are the top careers of the person who becomes a millionaire? By the way, 89% of America's millionaires, according to that study, and it's accurate, are first-generation rich, meaning they started with nothing. They did not become a millionaire because of inherited money.
They became a millionaire because of hard work and getting out of debt and then saving and investing. You follow me? I do follow you.
It's loud and clear. Top five careers with the highest probability to become millionaire.
Number one, engineer. I'll take that.
Number two, accountant. Number three, teacher.
Number four,

business executive. And number five, lawyer.
Medical doctors didn't even make the top five, and you were number one. But here's why.
One of the things your academic discipline has taught you is that there are systems and processes that must be followed. There's only one way to do it.
You don't get to be like creative arts is not part of engineering. You follow me? I do.
There's a set of chemistry formulas. There's a set of stress formulas if you're building a bridge.
And if you don't build it that way, the freaking thing falls. There's one way to do it.
There's one way to do accounting properly. There's no such thing as creative accounting unless you go to jail.
Okay? So that kind of stuff. So all of these people in this top five are process people.
You're a process person. It's what your discipline has trained your brain to do.
So I'm going to send you a graduation gift. It's called the total money makeover.
It's the book that we did. Uh, we're coming up on a 12 million of them sold now.
And that many people have gotten out of debt. That's why somebody told you to call me.
Okay. Okay.
Perfect. So this sounds wonderful.
Thank you. Yeah.
You follow that system exactly like it was a chemistry formula, like it was an engineering formula, math formula. You follow the process.
Be a process guy. Follow it and get yourself out of debt super fast.
And then you got the rest of your life to live with a fabulous income and building wealth and building the ability to be generous and help others. Okay? Okay.
That makes sense. David, I'm going to warn you.
You agree with everything Dave said, rightfully, but you're going to go out and tell people that don't know what we teach or have no idea who we are or why we are the way we are, and they're going to try to talk you out of this because you've got a good income. They're going to tell you to live a little and enjoy it.
I'm telling you, you've got to have that engineer brain fully engaged right now and treat this as a problem that you can solve and you know how to solve it. On the other side of this, you are going to stack wealth really, really quickly and you're going to have no stress in your life when it comes to finances.
So please remember that when somebody tries to talk you out of it because they will. Number one mistake make when they graduate college and um get the big job they go buy a new car yeah what are you driving right now i drive an old honda but i already have it paid off so how old it's only like 2015 so it's not oh dude that's gonna be perfect yeah you know what that is is that's a millionaire car yeah it is that's a car that makes millionaires gallon dude it's amazing 45

miles of the gallon and they're super when your buddies start pulling up in the engineering

parking lot and their new f-150 decked out yeah i know yeah the raptor yeah it's a beast i got one

it's incredible and i want you to get you a raptor later they're they're awesome okay but but um

I'm going to go ahead and get it. i know yeah raptor yeah it's a beast i got one it's incredible and i want you to get you a raptor later they're they're awesome okay but but um right now um you just be happy that your car will fit in the back of it fair enough and take the 10 and then pay off throw it at it you got 70 left you make 120 and so we know that if you live on 50 not counting taxes that boom you're out of debt in one year if you did it even faster nobody here would be mad because the sooner you get out and you're free the sooner you are you get to live all the dreams that you had when you worked so hard to get this degree and you pay cash for a raptor you pay cash for the road exactly so that makes sense i could probably pay off all my debts in like a couple years three at most then honey you weren't listening i thought you said you had eighty thousand dollars in student loan debt yeah you got other debt what no no other debt okay you're making 120 yes let's do some fourth grade math all right 120 plus a ten thousand dollar signing bonus.
If you you throw 10 000 at the 80 it becomes 70 yep you live on 50 pay 70 off in one year okay yeah that's what i was saying okay now i get what you what you're saying like super fast uh how much how much because it'll be 120 or 130 uh pre-tax i know you're gonna lose some to taxes which means you're not gonna live on 50 you're probably gonna live on 30 or 40 but you lived a lot less than that this year live like an intern i wasn't kidding dude okay and clear it up in one year how old are you i'm 21 okay if you do this you'll be a millionaire by the time you're 30. Okay, that sounds good.
All right. Hang on, I'm going to send you the book.
I think you can do it. Oh, it's only another year of ramen noodles, Dave.
He can do it. Or whatever college kids eat on the cheap.
As long as he avoids the peer pressure from his broke friends. That's what's going to happen.
Driving a new Ford with a $1,200 payment. Yeah, but I'm looking good.

I'm broke, but I got no money.

But I'm looking good at the stoplight for people I don't know.

Hey, guys, good news.

Presale is on now for my new book, Build a Business You Love.

If you're a business owner, you know running a business is hard.

That's why I wrote this book, to share what we learned over the last 30 years

Thank you. is on now for my new book, Build a Business You Love.
If you're a business owner, you know running a business is hard. That's why I wrote this book, to share what we learned over the last 30 years

so business owners can grow your business faster with fewer mistakes. Pre-order your copy today,

and you'll get access to over $350 in bonus items only at RamseySolutions.com

slash store. RamseySolutions.com slash store.
ramseysolutions.com slash store.

Pre-order today. ken coleman ramsey personalities my co-host uh peter is with us in vero beach florida hi peter how are you good great dave glad to talk to you you too uh actually when uh when i sent you an email.
I was talking about this woman that had a 401k with a million and a half in it. And she was living in New York City.
And that was on her bucket list. And you suggested that maybe she should move out back out of New York City and, you know, go there and visit.
But I'm thinking that if she was invested in the right stuff with her $1.5 million, and I'm big on dividend stocks, so my opinion is that she could invest all that money into dividend stocks and basically she could stay there making $20,000 a month with a million and a half dollars.

No.

There's not a dividend stock that pays that.

$20,000 a month is $240,000.

You're talking about a 25% rate of return on a dividend stock?

Not a chance.

No, no, no, no.

No, no.

You don't get $20,000 a month on a million, too.

Right.

Your math is screwed up.

Thank you. No, no, no, no.
No, no. You don't get $20,000 a month on a million, too.
Right. Your math is screwed up.
You said $20,000 a month. That's $240,000 a year on a million five.
That's an unrealistic rate of return. I guess that's why she didn't call your show.
I guess that's why she called ours. Open phones here at 888-825-5225.

Ashley's in Atlanta.

Hi, Ashley.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Thank you.

How are you guys?

Better than we deserve.

What's up?

I had a question.

I currently am on step one of your, I'm reading your book, and I wanted to know, I have two jobs together that total about $76,000, I would say, a year. Good for you.
And I have a 403B, a 401A, and a Roth IRA, all with my employers. My question is, should I stop contributing to them? Because I do have $169,000 in student loan debt.
I have about $300

in credit card debt, and then I owe my mom and my father together about $1,800. So I wanted to know if I need to take care of that first and then start back contributing after.
Yes, ma'am. That's what we teach.
We've taught folks for several decades that baby step one is you should have $1,000 saved as a starter miniature emergency fund.

Do you have any more money than that saved?

I have $1,400, and then I have saved, because I don't have a car, so I put $1,500 aside for a vehicle.

When are you buying the car?

I haven't decided because I try to be smarter than I was.

I let them take my vehicle because it was a mess.

So now I'm going into it, but I don't want to go into it stupidly,

so I'm trying to be smarter.

That would be pay cash for a car?

Yes.

No debt?

Okay, no debt, yeah.

No more debt?

Debt hasn't worked well for you, girl.

It has not.

Okay, so we're going to go no debt.

So you have $1,500 saved towards a car.

Do you have a question? Okay, no debt, yeah. No more debt.
That hasn't worked well for you, girl. It has not.

Okay, so we're going to go no debt.

So you have $1,500 saved towards a car.

Do you have any other money saved?

Other than the emergency fund of $1,400, that's it.

Okay, so you have $1,400 and $1,500 for a car.

So if we threw it all together, you could get a $3,000 car.

Okay.

Go do that. That's a good idea because you can make more money if you've got a car, right? Correct.
Okay. Let's get some wheels under you.
Then your first goal is to save $1,000 back in your emergency fund. Your second goal is list all your debts, smallest to largest, and pay them off in that order.
Stop all investing while you're doing that temporarily. But I want you to zoom, zoom.
Now I want you to kick your income up because you got wheels. I want you to be on beans and rice, rice and beans and total focus on each of these steps as you're going through it.
So we're going to knock out the credit card and your parents within just a few months. Agreed? Yes.
I do have four children, so I do kind of budget them into my... That's budgeting.
Food is in the budget. I'm talking about finding money out of the budget while you eat, keep lights on and the rent paid, and that's about all we do and work, and we throw money at these student loans and get rid of them as fast as we can.
What's your degree in? So I have an undergrad in community health and a master's in human resources, which I should never have done, but I know that now. Why are you only making 76,000 in Atlanta, Georgia then? You should be making more than that with those degrees.
I agree. Are you qualified to be in HR? Yeah, I'm currently in HR.
Both of my employees are in HR. Okay.
But it sounds like you're doing entry-level HR stuff. Yeah, I feel like that's what I am doing.
Yeah. But you've got a master's in it.
Mm-hmm. Okay.
So, Ken, what are we going to do to get this income up? Yeah, this becomes primary focus right now. That is, who do I know? Connections, connections, connections.
It's a big marketplace in Atlanta, so I'm looking to upgrade as quickly as I can or take on some fractional HR duties, maybe for some smaller businesses. And I'm thinking, what do I have to do to make an additional two to three grand a month? Set your sights higher.
Ask your supervisor, what can I do here to add value to be worth more so that I can make more? Not I need to get paid more because I have a degree. That's not what we would ever, we would never say that, but going there and go, I've got this master's, I've got these tools in my belt.
I want to be able to do more for this organization because I want to move up. Help me do that.
Mentor me. Show me what to do.
Show me how to add value. And if the supervisor refuses, then you need to move.
But I can tell you how many times great opportunities come to people when you start telling everybody to listen. And your friends, your family, your acquaintances, you have got to put the word out that you've got talent you've got experience and you're looking to work and that's how you increase your income quickly and you get a couple quick wins you know if you get some contract work even something like that um here's what i don't want you to do i don't want you to default to getting in your car and and driving rideshare i'm not against that at all you don't't need to do that.
You have too many tools in your belt. Too much talent for your time.
Yeah. Let's have a goal of moving up through the career with all this training that we have and doubling our income in the next three years.
Yeah. I want you to make it 153 years from now.
But you're going to have to concentrate on how can I add value? How can I make myself value? What have I got to do to make myself more presentable as I interview for these positions within my company or outside my company? And we'll send you a copy of Ken's book, the proximity principle, which is what he's talking to you about right now. And then we'll send you my book, the total money makeover, which is what I was talking to you about with the baby steps and showing you how to walk up through.
Let's get wheels under you. Let's get the $1,000 in the bank, and then let's start paying off these debts as fast and as hard as we can.
And as your income goes up and you get better and better control with your money, use the EveryDollar app. It's a free download.
As you get more and more and more control on your budget, you're going to see your money work harder and harder and harder, and you're going to plow through that $169,000. Most mornings you wake up right now, you think you'll never get that paid off in your life.
And I see people in your situation pay it off in three years all the time. But it has to do also with maximizing your career potential.
It does. And one of the things that people overlook is the most underutilized question in the world, Dave.
When we're talking about professional advancement and getting more income, it's this, will you help me? This isn't a handout type question. It is a, I'm a mom.
I got four babies. I'm trying to get out of debt.
It's a compelling story. People respond to that kind of stuff to say, hey, I'm looking for work over here.
I'm an HR pro. I can do this, this, and this, and here's why I'm doing it.
I want to get out of debt. I want to have an emergency fund, set my babies free on this journey.
People love to help people who are helpable, and this is a great story. So we can't forget, I know there's a lot of people listening and watching us right now.
When you share a story that's tied to a vision of becoming debt free of building an emergency fund all the kind of things changing your family tree people respond to that you'd be surprised but we forget that the narrative is what's attractive to people because they want to help somebody who's helpable yeah and who are willing to help themselves bust Bust your chops. You're saying, hey, I'm going to work.

Give me, put me in, coach.

That's attractive.

Give me a shot, you know.

Yeah.

And I'll, you know, I'll work so hard, it'll make you, you know, happy that you did this.

By the way, opportunities, and you know this, they show up for people like that.

They do.

They just randomly, but not so randomly, shows up.

This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back.