It’s Not Too Late to Get Back on Financial Track

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Speaker 1 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work

Speaker 1 that they love, and create actual, amazing relationships.

Speaker 1 I'm Dave Ramsey, George Camill, number one best-selling author, host of the George Campbell Show, co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour, and Ramsey personality. He is my co-host today.

Speaker 1 Open phones here at 888-825-5225.

Speaker 1 Big day, a lot of happenings around this show today, and give you a couple of heads up on that. We don't usually do that first thing off the block, but I'm going to do it today.

Speaker 1 It is launch day for my brand new book, Build a Business You Love,

Speaker 1 teaching small businesses the clear path through the five stages of business. We've worked with 10,000 small businesses across America, and we are one.
And we have survived 2008.

Speaker 1 We've survived tariff wars. We've survived everything.

Speaker 1 And you have too, if you're fighting and scratching out there running a business, it's hard, but we're going to give you the clear path on how to get there.

Speaker 1 Build a Business You Love is launching officially today. Thank you for that.

Speaker 2 Congrats on the launch, Dave. Well, thank you.
And happy tax day.

Speaker 1 Perfect timing.

Speaker 2 We needed some good news today.

Speaker 1 Someone said, did you do that on purpose? And I went, absolutely not.

Speaker 1 But, you know, so anyway, we're doing it. And Amazon Music is now carrying the Ramsey Show and have been as they're in the podcast world now.
So if you haven't checked out that, be sure and do.

Speaker 1 That's the way to go. And as a part of them celebrating that, they are putting us and this book on one of the big digital billboards in Times Square.

Speaker 2 Oh, that's cool. This week.

Speaker 1 So in a couple of days,

Speaker 1 walking through Times Square with the 8,000 different digital billboards that are there, you'll see our shining face up there as one of them this week.

Speaker 1 Thank you to Amazon Music for doing that for us and for carrying our show. We appreciate it.

Speaker 1 Also,

Speaker 1 basically, this show is broadcast in podcast and video anywhere they'll let us. That's the rule.
And so anybody that has it, anybody that does it, we put it out there.

Speaker 1 So obviously a lot of you are on Spotify. A lot of you are on YouTube.

Speaker 1 A lot of you are on Apple Podcast and Talk Radio. And thank you for all of that.
Spotify this week has gone to video as well. So you can now watch the show on video.

Speaker 1 We're one of their first video products as well. And so if you don't want to watch it on YouTube for whatever reason and you're a Spotify person, you'll like that.
We appreciate that.

Speaker 1 So you can find us there. So just a lot of things happening, a lot of things going on.
This show has exploded.

Speaker 1 The numbers are astronomical, and you guys out there are the reason. So we wanted to just take a second and update you and tell you thank you for all of that.

Speaker 1 And several of my friends that live in this area and other areas, I have been on their podcasts in the last year. Tucker Carlson, I flew up to Maine and did his, and he's been a friend for years.

Speaker 1 And it was the first time I'd ever been on his podcast. That was a lot of fun.

Speaker 1 Theo Vaughn came over.

Speaker 1 We had a lot of fun with that. Theo's a new friend, but he lives here in the neighborhood.
And we've been hanging out a little bit. And I'm really liking this young guy.
He's a neat young guy.

Speaker 1 And we set up his studio in our studio. He does do his podcast from here in Franklin, Tennessee, where we do.
But he came over and we did that, I guess that was almost six or eight months ago now.

Speaker 1 And then another guy that lives in the neighborhood that is a new friend in the last, I guess, six months ago or eight months ago, I met him for the first time and really like this guy.

Speaker 1 And he's a young podcaster that's exploded, become a big deal. And he's about literally a mile from here

Speaker 1 where he does his show.

Speaker 1 Maybe two miles where he does his show. And that's Sean Ryan.
And I did a long episode. He does long form stuff.

Speaker 1 So we were sitting there for over three hours, a long episode with him, and it dropped this week, today, yesterday afternoon, whenever it was.

Speaker 1 So the Sean Ryan podcast with me and him hanging out, talking life and kids and marriage and Christ and money, of course, and leadership and business and Trump tariffs and anything else he wanted to talk about.

Speaker 1 We just sat there and talked. And

Speaker 1 classic Sean Ryan,

Speaker 1 but I'm not his normal, I'm not a SEAL Team Six guy or a former CIA assassin or anything. So I'm not his normal fare.

Speaker 1 but uh, but but I really like the guy. I enjoy hanging out with him and sharp young dad, a young husband.
And man, he's a great, great interviewer.

Speaker 1 So, Sean Ryan, if you want to see that long-form interview, you can pick it up, of course, on his podcast. Sean Ryan's show.

Speaker 1 So, lots of things happening around here, George. Busy week.
And,

Speaker 1 you know, what, 150 teenagers came in a while ago? Yeah. And I thought they were protesting.
I was walking through the, they're not protesting, not in here.

Speaker 2 That was like a TikTok band protester situation.

Speaker 1 We wouldn't do that.

Speaker 1 But no, I mean, I'm walking through the lunchroom down there, and I hear this cheer come up like Rory McElroy walked up on the green or something, and it's George walking in to talk to the teenagers, and I think they thought the Beatles were here.

Speaker 2 It really made me feel like a superhero. I was very kind because they see my face every day in the classroom watching our foundations and personal finance curriculum.

Speaker 2 So the guy from the TV is in front of them now. So this is as close as they'll get to seeing a real celebrity.

Speaker 1 Did they say that you're taller in person?

Speaker 2 I forced them to say that. I said, Do you guys think I'm taller in person? They said, Yes, absolutely.
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 You're bulked up now.

Speaker 2 I sent some snark on them. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, no, teenagers would never have snark.

Speaker 1 Not those teenagers. They're good kids.
But it was funny. I'm walking through the dadgum cafe, the Ramsey Cafe downstairs where our team all eats, and I hear this cheer go up.
You got excited.

Speaker 1 And I'm like, wow, who's here? And I turned, I said, I asked Ken Coleman. I saw him.
I said, Ken, who's here? And he said, George.

Speaker 2 It's a big deal, Dave. I know it's not to you.
You're used to seeing me in person, but you catch me in a Costco.

Speaker 1 It's a riot out there.

Speaker 1 People are losing their minds.

Speaker 1 They give up on the $1.50 hot dog. George is here.

Speaker 2 George is here. Oh, it's fun.
It means we're helping kids change their lives. I asked them, I said, who's committing to living their life debt-free? All the hands flew up in the air.
So our work.

Speaker 2 has meaning. I know.
The next generation is getting it, Dave.

Speaker 1 Well, and you're the primary feature in

Speaker 1 the curriculum. I'm in it a little bit.
Rachel's in it.

Speaker 2 Rachel's in there. Deloney's in there.
You got some Ken in there.

Speaker 1 But you're the primary, right?

Speaker 2 I was hosting, so you see a lot of me. Ah, okay.
Because I was all over it.

Speaker 1 I just cut the different pieces I knew that we put in the, and it used to be all me. God help the poor teenagers.
And

Speaker 1 they like you. Well, they sort of did.

Speaker 2 They don't love you, but they like you.

Speaker 1 Oh, there we go. Okay.
They love you. All right.
That's it.

Speaker 2 It's a great curriculum, though. A lot of people don't know that our curriculums are now at 48% of high schools in America.

Speaker 1 6 million high school students have been through our high school curriculum now.

Speaker 2 So you think, man, they should teach this stuff in schools.

Speaker 1 We're doing it. We've been doing it.
And if your school's not, then you ought to have a little FOMO here and get your school going. And some of y'all ought to maybe sponsor it.

Speaker 1 I talked to a guy in Birmingham this week on the air here yesterday that one of the teachers and one of the local home builders sponsored it

Speaker 1 for his school.

Speaker 1 And his school is title one school, so it's almost 100% free lunch so it's an area that's lower socioeconomic and he goes I can teach these kids how they never have to live like their parents have lived they're going to become wealthy they're not going to live in poverty and this math teacher and he was on fire and the home builder paid for the local home builder paid for it for all the kids to go through and so they're teaching it at that high school because of him so I love it Well, we don't usually take a segment and give you updates on us, but there's a lot of us happening this week.

Speaker 1 And so we want to take a second to do that. By the way, we'll be, Dr.
John Deloney and I will be in Louisville, Kentucky Monday,

Speaker 1 if you haven't gotten your tickets yet. And Atlanta, Friday, and Durham, North Carolina, on Wednesday.
And so that's the first three cities of our six-city tour next week.

Speaker 1 So get ready for those as well. This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance, or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John.
Why don't people want to take care of their family?

Speaker 1 They think they're going to die or something.

Speaker 3 Well, I used to be one of those guys, I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids.

Speaker 3 And I immediately went and got term life insurance.

Speaker 1 That's a gut punch.

Speaker 3 And oh, you're telling me, and for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them.
Me too. They don't know what to do next.

Speaker 1 Me too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here.
And, you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow.

Speaker 1 She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly.
These are the two options.

Speaker 1 And terminal. Take care of your dadgum family, man.

Speaker 3 Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses, so your family can actually have the the opportunity to just be sad.

Speaker 1 Yeah. To just miss you.
That's exactly what it's supposed to be. It's saying I love you to your family.
Term life insurance. Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable.

Speaker 1 I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust.
Go to xander.com or call 800-356-4282.

Speaker 1 George Campbell Ramsey personality is my co-host today.

Speaker 1 Colin is in Fort Myers, Florida. Hi, Colin.
Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 4 Hey, how are you?

Speaker 1 Better than we deserve. What's up?

Speaker 5 My car, I was in a

Speaker 6 shopping mall, and

Speaker 6 I'm unstable

Speaker 6 I was unstable off my bipolar disorder medication. I broke into my own car.
My car was towed to the tow facility. The tow facility auctioned it off because I was in jail.

Speaker 6 When the police came, I got scared and I ran.

Speaker 6 Was in jail for about 83 days. And while I was in jail, the tow company sold the car for $21,000.
It was worth $41,000.

Speaker 6 I shouldn't have bought the car to begin with. They shouldn't have sold the car to begin with

Speaker 6 at Honda Acura. And they ended up selling selling the car at the tow company in an auction and then got 21 about 21 000 for it and there's a balance of uh 20 945

Speaker 6 and then honda accuracy sold the debt to a creditor and i was just wondering if i should pay the creditor or just let there's a reposition on the record already so i'm not sure what to do wow

Speaker 1 okay well i need to help you reframe your story okay The tow company didn't do anything wrong.

Speaker 6 Yeah, they didn't.

Speaker 1 They sold a car that had been sitting on their lot lot for 83 days in order to cover the tow bill and the storage bill and um and so honda you owed honda 41 000

Speaker 6 yeah i i bought the car and um

Speaker 6 i guess i guess it doesn't matter if i say this or not they they they um I was unstable when I bought the car. They said I was a

Speaker 6 truck driver or something like that when I was an Uber driver to get the loan.

Speaker 6 I signed off at time I just was Unstable. Sold me the car for $41,000.

Speaker 7 Couldn't afford a $900 a month payment.

Speaker 1 But I'm trying to get the, hold on, hold on. I'm just trying to get the numbers straight, honey.
So you have $41,000 owed on the car. The tow company sold it for $21,000.

Speaker 1 How did they give clear title to it if the loan hadn't been paid off?

Speaker 1 That's interesting.

Speaker 6 I'm not sure.

Speaker 1 I don't know how far the law works.

Speaker 1 I can't imagine that if the car didn't at least pay off the lien.

Speaker 1 Wow. Anyway, I don't know how they got title, but that's a different issue.

Speaker 1 So bottom line is that they put $20 something thousand dollars towards the debt and you still owe $20 something thousand dollars on a car that was in a weird way sort of repoed, right?

Speaker 6 Yeah,

Speaker 6 they just sent me a letter saying I could settle for $8,300,200.

Speaker 1 There you go. Do you have any money?

Speaker 6 I don't have any money until November. I have a settlement check coming in for $5,700 in November.
I could probably settle with them in that.

Speaker 6 I should do that?

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 you're going to have to clear the debt. It is a valid debt.
And typically a repo debt you can clear for somewhere around a quarter on the dollar.

Speaker 1 And so the $20,000 balance you probably can clear it for around five. Eight was their first offer.
You could probably get them down to five, but you don't have five today.

Speaker 1 So you can't really make them a counteroffer today.

Speaker 1 What you could do is just ignore them and let them get a little bit more sweaty before you have to deal with them. That's not a bad thing.

Speaker 1 Eventually, they're going to get around to suing you for that. Are you working?

Speaker 6 For the first time in my life, I'm not working now.

Speaker 6 I had six months out of work. I went off my psychiatric drugs right before I sold my condo four years ago.

Speaker 6 And I came in to $72,000 and went through four years of hell until I finally realized in the last three weeks, I'm fresh out of the hospital two weeks ago, that I'd be working on.

Speaker 1 So you remember how the hospital two weeks ago now?

Speaker 2 Pretty much, yeah. Are you stable?

Speaker 1 Are you on back on the meds?

Speaker 6 Uh, yeah, I'm back on the meds now. Um, I take lithium and one other drug, um, but I just, it's, and I'm a little shaky right now, a little shaky, but I'm stable.

Speaker 7 Um, um,

Speaker 6 still working through things. But uh, yeah, I, I, I, I, at 14 years old, I started a vending company, had that for 10 years, um, and then worked for in pizza delivery for about another 10 years or so.

Speaker 6 So it's been a rough ride.

Speaker 6 I believe I saw Jesus Christ in the hospital in Tampa after I was going 45, 55 miles an hour.

Speaker 6 I fell asleep at the wheel. I prayed to God in Jesus' name to stop my car in the middle of traffic.
I don't have to know I prayed to him to help me.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 6 I was going 45, 55 miles an hour in Tarasota. He stopped my car in the middle of traffic.
I had cars in front of me, cars beside me. He got a scratch for my body and wherever I deployed.

Speaker 7 And only

Speaker 6 $700 some dollars.

Speaker 1 Colin was in Tampa hospital. Colin,

Speaker 1 the first thing before we worry about healing your numbers,

Speaker 1 healing your math and your finances is for Colin to get healing. Okay.

Speaker 1 And so whatever work you just did at the hospital and whatever work you've got to do to finish stabilizing your meds to get there,

Speaker 1 That keeps you, if you can get there and stay there, it keeps you from falling into the traps of buying things, of

Speaker 1 getting things stored, getting in jail. It keeps you out of all those traps because all those things set all your financial numbers back, hon.
It makes it real tough.

Speaker 1 And so almost everything you're having to clean up is the result of you being sideways, right?

Speaker 1 And so if we can keep, if we can get,

Speaker 1 if you can focus on Colin, focus on what your therapist is saying, get those drugs balanced. And getting them balanced is a trick.
You know that.

Speaker 1 And getting them right to where you have enough energy to live, but you're also not completely freaking manic,

Speaker 1 which you sound a little bit right now, like you are.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 I want you to work on healing Colin.

Speaker 1 And then as you do that, you'll be able to get and hold a job of some kind to create an income. And then you can settle this repossession deficit for somewhere around 25 cents on the dollar.

Speaker 1 So $5,000 will clean this particular mess up, but you will have seven other messes if Colin doesn't find healing. Yeah.
And so, man, we'll be praying for you, brother.

Speaker 1 Sounds like you've really been through it. And

Speaker 1 I want you to get stable and get

Speaker 1 straight and narrow. And for your sake, and just find some peace and find some ground you can walk on this solid.

Speaker 2 And another tactical piece of this is adding some stopgaps in there, like freezing your credit with all the bureaus so that you can't open debt.

Speaker 2 Because right now, it could just take one little slip up and you open a new line of credit, got another loan. And like you found out, these dealerships, these lenders, they don't care.

Speaker 2 They'll do whatever it takes to get you another loan. And so put some stopgaps in place to help protect yourself.

Speaker 2 Wow. But that's that's scary.

Speaker 1 Mike is in Connecticut. Hey, Mike, how are you?

Speaker 1 Good. How are you?

Speaker 1 How can we help, sir?

Speaker 6 Um, So I have some rental properties that as I get I guess as I get closer to retirement, I'm looking for some advice on how you would exit

Speaker 6 owning the rental properties other than

Speaker 6 selling and just paying the taxes.

Speaker 1 That's pretty well it if you want to exit.

Speaker 1 I mean, you can do 1031 exchanges, but you would be trading these rental properties for other rental properties um right i guess and that's not exiting

Speaker 1 what

Speaker 6 what do you think about a reit exchanging into an r eit you can't

Speaker 1 it's not like kind

Speaker 1 has to be actively managed property and you're not actively managing a retari is more of a mutual fund than it is a real estate investment so you'd have to sell it then use the proceeds to invest into a reit but you're going to you're going to have the taxes on it so 1031 tax deferred does not work to a REIT.

Speaker 1 Not in my opinion. I mean, you have to get a professional tax advice if you want.
But if somebody told you that on TikTok, I would be questioning it.

Speaker 1 I don't think that'll work because it has to be income producing to income producing.

Speaker 1 You can't trade your lake house for another lake house in a 1031 unless you rent it 181 days a year and call it a rental property over six months of the year. So

Speaker 1 you can't trade your personal residence in a 1031. It doesn't work.
It's income producing property for income producing property. And so you've got to,

Speaker 1 you know, active, it's actively managed stuff. And so that's what you're looking at.

Speaker 1 What you can do if you want to do 1031 is move from something that is, like if you've got a bunch of houses and you want to move out of the residential drama of tenants, move to a boring tenant like a warehouse deal.

Speaker 1 Warehouse tenants are boring. And a lot of those are triple net, meaning they pay the taxes, the insurance, and the maintenance and pay you rent.

Speaker 1 And you don't do anything except collect a check then. Now that's that you can do a 1031 on for some houses.
So you could look at doing some of that.

Speaker 1 But otherwise, you're going to pay some capital gains. And depending on how long you've held them and how far you've depreciated down your basis, your capital gains could be substantial.

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Speaker 1 Or you can walk into the bookstore and if you see it laying there pick it up it'll be there today our question of the day is brought to you by why refi why refi refinances defaulted private student loans that's different than a federal student loan and it means you even you can't even make the required payments if that describes you why refi can help you They will restructure the loan for you, get you where you're current, and then help you get out of debt because they want to get their money back.

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Speaker 2 Today's question comes from Allison in Minnesota. I agree with your advice not to get whole life insurance, but I have a question about it.

Speaker 2 With term life insurance, if you outlive the term, you lose all of the money you paid in premiums. With whole life, you would still have some cash value.

Speaker 2 Is the difference between them worth the risk of getting nothing?

Speaker 2 Well, here's the thing: term life is not an investment.

Speaker 2 So, the idea that you got nothing, that's like saying, well, my house didn't burn down, so I guess I wasted all that money on homeowners' insurance.

Speaker 2 It's not the point, it's to replace your income if something were to happen to you.

Speaker 2 And by the way, that whole life is going to be 10 times the cost, and it's a giant ripoff because it all goes to the whole life company.

Speaker 2 So, there is a huge difference, and term will still come out ahead in every case.

Speaker 1 Yeah, so the thing is this, term is 1 20th. It's 20 times less expensive.

Speaker 1 And if you invest the other 95 cents on the dollar that you're not spending on whole life into your retirement, you're going to have millions of dollars.

Speaker 1 And that beats what you would have had had you put the same amount of money in whole life.

Speaker 1 So what you're comparing here is inaccurate. You're saying that term, I'm going to get nothing, and whole life, I put in the same amount, and I'll get something.
No, you put in 20 times more.

Speaker 1 And if you had taken that difference term and invest the difference somewhere else and spent the same money you spent on the whole life, you would end up with a lot more, whether you live or whether you die.

Speaker 1 And so that's the way to go. But life insurance, all insurance is not an investment.
No insurance, no insurance is an investment is a better way of saying it.

Speaker 1 George is exactly right. If your house burns down, doesn't burn down, and you never got money for your homeowner's insurance, did you get ripped off?

Speaker 1 No, you transferred the risk that you could not afford to buy a new home if your house burnt down without insurance.

Speaker 1 You transfer the risk if someone dies with life insurance that you're depending on your income. And so if you're 32 years old, you've got three little kids and no money,

Speaker 1 and papa dies, mama's got a mess.

Speaker 1 So you need to go to Xander Insurance Insurance and you need to get life insurance to transfer the risk because you can't afford to die.

Speaker 1 You can't afford to have your house burned down without homeowner's insurance. And so you can't afford to die without life insurance to make sure your family is taken care of.

Speaker 1 So you're transferring the risk. It's not an investment.
And so you've got all of this convoluted, Allison, which tells me that you've been talking to, and stop it,

Speaker 1 a whole life agent. Stop talking to them.

Speaker 1 Because

Speaker 1 the words you're using and the way you're bringing this up is straight out of their little playbook. It's out of their little script on how they sell this crap.

Speaker 2 It's the old saying: if you don't argue with an idiot, they'll drag you down and beat you with experience. That's most whole life agents.

Speaker 1 Jade is in Sacramento. Hi, Jade.
How are you?

Speaker 1 Good. How are you? Better than I deserve.
What's up?

Speaker 14 Yeah, so my husband and I actually took your guys' high school course, and we are completely debt-free.

Speaker 14 We do have a mortgage, but other than that, no credit card debt.

Speaker 14 And my question is, can we afford a substantial vacation? At what point can we spend money on a vacation?

Speaker 1 Well, we tell folks until you're through baby step three. Do you know what that is?

Speaker 14 Let me see. I have my notes.

Speaker 1 You can remind me.

Speaker 1 I'll tell you.

Speaker 2 It's okay. Dave memorized it.

Speaker 1 the baby step three is a fully funded emergency fund and you're out of debt you should not go on vacation until you have those done if you've got your in other words if you've got your emergency fund you're to baby step four

Speaker 1 which means you should be putting 15 of your income away for retirement

Speaker 1 and you should be putting something for your kids college and putting a little extra on your mortgage if in that budget you can pay cash for a vacation, a couch or an upgrade in a car or whatever other spending you want to do, that's the time you would do it.

Speaker 1 And it sounds like that might be where you are.

Speaker 14 Yeah,

Speaker 6 we have a good amount saved for emergency

Speaker 1 ED account. And do you have 15% going into retirement?

Speaker 1 Yes. Good.
Okay. And what are we talking about spending on a vacation?

Speaker 14 $3,000 to $5,000. $5,000 would be generous, around $3,000.

Speaker 1 Okay. And what's your household income?

Speaker 14 Right now it's 82 gross, 60 net.

Speaker 1 And you would pay cash for this vacation?

Speaker 1 Yes. No more debt.

Speaker 14 No debt.

Speaker 1 No more debt ever.

Speaker 1 Yes, sir. Okay.
All right. Yeah, that's what we, that's when we would tell you to do it.

Speaker 1 Do you have the money today?

Speaker 14 Yeah.

Speaker 13 It's in our savings.

Speaker 1 Wonderful. Wait a minute.

Speaker 1 Your savings,

Speaker 1 is that your emergency fund

Speaker 1 um so we have twenty seven thousand in our savings um emergency so it's more than our okay what our you need to quit calling you need to quit calling your savings okay you need to take all of your savings and give it a name How much of the $27,000 is the emergency fund?

Speaker 1 How much of it is the vacation fund? How much of it is the Christmas fund? How much of it is whatever? Okay.

Speaker 1 And so I'll just make up up a number, just to give you an example. I've got $27,000 in my savings account, but 20,000 of that is the emergency fund.
We never touch that.

Speaker 1 I've got 4,000 of the 27 is my vacation fund, and 3,000 of my 27 is saving up for a better car or

Speaker 1 Christmas next winter or whatever. I don't care.

Speaker 1 But you should give your dollars a name because if you just call it savings, then you can emotionally justify justify taking any of it out and get too far down into your emergency fund, which you don't want to do.

Speaker 14 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay. So you and your husband decide how much of this is your emergency fund.
And I actually, George and I, we generally would recommend you put your emergency fund portion in a separate account.

Speaker 2 I like keeping them all separate.

Speaker 1 So you don't touch it for anything. And then you could have a miscellaneous savings where we're saving up for different things and we itemize those.

Speaker 1 But I like having it separate so I don't get all excited about the vacation and or the car purchase or whatever.

Speaker 1 And, you know, all of a sudden I'm down into that emergency fund and then I have an emergency and oh my, now we got a mess again.

Speaker 1 So, but it sounds like you're ready to go, Jade. Enjoy your vacation, kiddo.
This is the Ramsey Show.

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Speaker 1 Thanks for being with us, America. We're so glad you are here.
Connor is in Toronto, Ontario. Hey, Connor, what's up?

Speaker 12 Hey, are you today?

Speaker 1 Better than I deserve. How can I help?

Speaker 12 Yeah, so I'm 25, married.

Speaker 12 I got a daughter and about $550,000 in debt, including a mortgage.

Speaker 12 Just kind of feels like I have your every dollar app. I've been trying to use it, but even then, it just feels really overwhelming trying to see basically no light at the end of the tunnel.

Speaker 12 Right. So I just

Speaker 12 need some guidance basically on how to work it out from here.

Speaker 2 How much consumer debt do you have? Let's separate the mortgage out because that'll help take away this mountain of debt you're looking at.

Speaker 12 Sure, yeah.

Speaker 12 One second here. I have

Speaker 12 $145,000 home equity line of credit, $14,000 personal line of credit on my wife's side that was transferred over from a student loan,

Speaker 12 $1,000 credit card and a $5,000 credit card. So we're $165,000 total.

Speaker 1 What was the home equity line for?

Speaker 12 Consolidating other debt.

Speaker 1 What was that debt?

Speaker 12 Two cars

Speaker 12 that we had. And then

Speaker 12 some of it, too, was basically we're all going to be here to pay Paul, right? My wife went on here in Ontario, like you get. 18 months of maternity leave, right? So, but when you are on 18 months,

Speaker 12 the subsidy that you get from the government is very low. Like it could could be maybe $500 a month.
Right. So I was using that to pay for our home expenses too, on top of that.

Speaker 1 So she couldn't afford to go on 18 months worth of leave, but did it anyway?

Speaker 12 12 or 18 months. Yeah, that's what you get.
So she had no.

Speaker 1 No, you don't get it at full. You get it at 500 bucks a month and starve to death.

Speaker 1 So she couldn't, you guys could not afford for her to go out for 18 months, but she did anyway.

Speaker 12 Yeah, she was on material leave for that time.

Speaker 2 And used debt to fund it, essentially.

Speaker 12 Yeah, at the time I was working a commission job, right? So I wasn't making a steady income. Now, at a time during that 18 months, I still have to do it.

Speaker 1 At the time, you couldn't afford for her to take that much time off, and she did anyway.

Speaker 5 Yes.

Speaker 1 Okay. I want y'all to hear that.

Speaker 1 Because you can't go into these things and... you fall backward into them again.

Speaker 1 You can do that once, but you need to learn what the mistake was. And the mistake was you can't look up and go, well, I don't want to work.
Yeah. That's not an option when you're broke.
All right. So

Speaker 1 what do you make now?

Speaker 12 I make about 80 to 100,000.

Speaker 1 What does she make now?

Speaker 8 About 65-ish, 70,000.

Speaker 1 So you make $165,000.

Speaker 12 Yeah, I will get raises

Speaker 12 for the next.

Speaker 1 How long has she been back to work?

Speaker 12 for about

Speaker 12 six to eight months now

Speaker 1 okay because you should have easily been making it with both of you working

Speaker 1 and making progress making i mean good god what does it take for you to live i mean you should be putting five six eight ten thousand dollars a month on these debts

Speaker 12 yeah i mean our take-home pay

Speaker 12 probably per month is about eight thousand.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, you're in canada i forgot you guys get your butts taxed off we whine about taxes in the u.s and you make us look like champions are you guys investing too at all

Speaker 12 uh yeah she has a an investment account here we call it it's a tax-free savings account right so you get to and and you get to invest and you get to take out tax-free but you're capped at about six thousand a year to put in yeah you need to stop investing temporarily and work what we call the baby steps have you ever heard of that

Speaker 12 uh i have just based on the podcast Like I've thought about getting Financial Peace University. I didn't know if it translated over to Canada, but I'm sure the principals would too.

Speaker 1 The principals do. I'll send you a copy of the total money makeover book.
And George, then he would work the baby steps.

Speaker 2 Yeah, so baby step one is a $1,000 starter emergency fund. Likely you guys have that.
And then baby step two, again, you're pausing investing. We're not borrowing another dime.

Speaker 2 You're going to pay off all of your debts from smallest to largest balance with the debt snowball method.

Speaker 2 So you're mimin payments on all the debts, but on that smallest one, attack it with a vindication.

Speaker 2 Throw as much extra as you can at it, and it gets knocked out real quick because it's the smallest one.

Speaker 2 Take that payment you freed up, apply it to the next and to the next until you're completely debt-free.

Speaker 2 And if you do it that way, making $165 and maybe working even more, maybe you get a side hustle, you guys can clean this up in two years.

Speaker 1 No eating out, no vacations, no investing.

Speaker 1 No over-taxation. Don't over-withhold.
Make sure you're withholding is only what you have to pay in taxes, no more. You don't want to get tax refunds like we do in the U.S.
It's a bad idea.

Speaker 1 And you guys got to live on beans and rice, rice and beans, because you have made a freaking mess at 25 years old with babies.

Speaker 1 And that's not unusual. You're not a horrible person.
Most people live like you're living. But as you described when you opened the call, when I picked up the phone, it's no freaking fun.

Speaker 1 Normal sucks. And I don't want to be normal.
So you got to get mad and pay. And if you've got any savings at all that's not retirement savings, start throwing it at these debts tonight.

Speaker 1 Knock out that $1,000 credit card, cut it up. Knock out that $5,000 credit card, cut it up.
Knock out that little $14,000 personal loan and be done with it.

Speaker 1 Man, that's only, that right there is only $20,000. You should be done with that in just a few months.

Speaker 1 And then that gets you down to the home equity line and the house.

Speaker 1 And then I want you to plow through that home equity line as fast as you possibly can or refinance the the house and roll the home equity line into it, either one. But no more borrowing ever.

Speaker 1 You need to have plastic surgery, chop up the credit cards, a plasectomy.

Speaker 1 You need to decide I'm not living like this anymore so that you can get clear of this because you've

Speaker 1 spent more than you make your entire married life.

Speaker 1 And it's reached the end mathematically. You don't have that option to do that anymore.
And it's stressful and it makes you feel shamed and it puts a strain on your relationship.

Speaker 1 And you guys, as a couple, as two grown-ups, have to live on less than

Speaker 1 you make.

Speaker 1 Period. No exceptions.
And by the way, Connor, that's all of us. We, all of you people listening, all of you people watching.
You have to live on less than you make.

Speaker 1 And I was the master at spending money and borrowing it to borrowing to cover up my disorganization, my impulsive spending, my entitled mentality. I had all of that in my 20s.

Speaker 1 And it's one of the things that led me to build a business that caused me to go bankrupt. And that's how I learned all this stuff is the hard way.
So I've done it worse than you.

Speaker 2 And one of the biggest traps out there is when you play this shell game, you start moving the debts around. Well, we can consolidate that.
We can wrap it into the HELOC.

Speaker 2 And you feel like you did something because action was taken. But you just moved the debts around and didn't clean any of it up.
In fact, it probably is worse now because they're not separated.

Speaker 2 So you don't get to do the debt snowball with a giant HELOC sitting there. And so this is the stupid tax that we talk about.

Speaker 2 And one day you look back and go, man, remember when we were young, we made all those decisions?

Speaker 2 Well, at 27, you guys are going to be completely debt-free if you do it this way with the rest of your life.

Speaker 1 Or sooner. Yeah.

Speaker 2 You heard, Dave. Get to work.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean, I want you to beans and rice. No freaking life.
And I don't care if your broke friends are making fun of you.

Speaker 1 If your broke friends are making fun of your financial plan, that means you're right on track. It's like fat people making fun of your diet.
You don't care. Yeah, I don't, I don't care.

Speaker 1 I'm trying to stay alive. I'm trying to build a future here.
And you don't have any credibility to make fun of me. So you don't get a vote in my life.

Speaker 1 You know, and when you reach that kind of stuff, that's when everything changes. And

Speaker 1 so you and your wife tonight need to have a come to Jesus meeting. And the two of us say, all right, we are not doing this anymore.

Speaker 1 Brand new life. Two children, having children, no more.
We're two adults now. And we're going to make adult decisions and we're going to get after this.
And adults devise a plan and follow it.

Speaker 1 Children do what feels good.

Speaker 1 And I got to tell you, I don't care if you're 55 or you're 25. If you just do what feels good, I work so hard.
I deserve it. You don't deserve nothing.
Shut up, you whiner.

Speaker 1 You deserve it when you saved up the money and paid for it because you worked your butt off. That's when you deserve it.
Until then, you didn't deserve it. I'm work hard.
Like, we all don't work hard.

Speaker 1 You want some cheese with that whine? Shut up.

Speaker 2 Dave just served up a charcuterie board right now.

Speaker 1 I'm serious, man. That just.
I'm working. I deserve it.
You don't deserve it.

Speaker 1 You deserve to get off your butt and straighten things up. That's what you deserve.

Speaker 1 That's it. I'm not yelling at you, Connor.
I'm yelling at everybody. This is the Ramsey Show.

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Speaker 1 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual, amazing relationships.

Speaker 1 I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, George Campbell, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, co-host of Smart Money, Happy Hour with our own Rachel Cruz. He's my co-host today.

Speaker 1 Open phones at 888-825-5225. Jeff's in Kansas City.
Hi, Jeff. How are you?

Speaker 10 Great, Dave. How are you?

Speaker 1 Better than I deserve, sir. How can I help?

Speaker 10 Well, I'm 64 years old. I have no retirement.

Speaker 10 I work a commission job. I've built an insurance agency, passive income to some degree.
And my question is: this: that I'm living paycheck to paycheck right now with no retirement.

Speaker 10 What do I need to do when my stocks,

Speaker 10 which I have no control over, will start holding value?

Speaker 10 That value should come in. They're telling us when we go public, somewhere at $15 to $30 a share with what I have after paying the 40% tax, I believe that is what it is.

Speaker 10 You're looking at about $600 on the low end to $1.5 on the high end that I will get when I cash those stocks in.

Speaker 1 And when is this?

Speaker 10 What would I do?

Speaker 10 Like a day, that's a

Speaker 10 problem.

Speaker 10 We're being told it could happen in a year, could happen in three years.

Speaker 1 So the insurance agency that you're a part of is going to go public?

Speaker 10 The IMO that we are part of. I own my own agency

Speaker 10 under the IMO.

Speaker 10 The IMO is going to go public in one to three years, they're telling us.

Speaker 1 Okay, and you don't have any control over any of that?

Speaker 10 No.

Speaker 1 Okay, and why are you, after all these years of building a book of business, why are you still living paycheck to paycheck? That makes no sense.

Speaker 10 I had to

Speaker 10 let go of 50% of my passive income

Speaker 10 due to health reasons, and I have an opportunity to build that back up, which I can.

Speaker 10 Or do I go out?

Speaker 1 Why did you have to surrender your book of business for health reasons?

Speaker 1 Because you couldn't service it?

Speaker 10 I stressed anxiety and basically was out of the field for a while. Long story short, you have a spread with the agent underneath you and Largest Leg was planking me.

Speaker 10 And once you get flanked, then you have no override.

Speaker 10 That passive income basically goes away. When that happened, 50% of my passive income, I was making about $120,000.
I'm making probably $70

Speaker 10 to 80 now.

Speaker 1 Okay. And you're not, that's the passive side.
Are you, are you actively working again? Are you able to work?

Speaker 14 Yeah.

Speaker 10 Yeah. I stay in the field to some degree just to keep my licenses in.

Speaker 1 Why aren't you working like a maniac if you're broke?

Speaker 6 Well,

Speaker 10 I'm lazy. I mean, that's the question that my son keeps forgetting

Speaker 10 is, do I put my time and energy? Because I needed to go back out. I've taken some time off, which

Speaker 6 shouldn't have.

Speaker 10 But based on getting myself where I needed to be emotionally and mentally, my question is, do I put it back into the agency and rebuild that? I can.

Speaker 10 There's an upside to that. Or do I just go out and get a $20 to $30

Speaker 10 remote phone gig that would

Speaker 1 I assume you make the most money in your craft.

Speaker 1 You should make a lot more than $20 an hour if you start making sales calls again.

Speaker 10 Absolutely.

Speaker 1 Well, go make sales calls, dude.

Speaker 10 Yep, I'm doing that on a limited basis. The bigger piece to that is what I've let go of, Dave, is the building piece.

Speaker 10 So there's two pieces to our business model.

Speaker 1 I understand. Produce, right?

Speaker 10 Which I can do with my eyes shut.

Speaker 1 Well, you need, but you need the money. You need the short-term money until the thing goes public.

Speaker 1 Correct. Okay, so go work your butt off till it goes public.
When it goes public, you can quit.

Speaker 10 Well, possibly.

Speaker 1 If you get a 600 to 1.2, I think you can invest that at 67 years old and you'll be able to quit.

Speaker 10 Well, what is a good number? Do you know what that number is with life expectancy?

Speaker 1 If you can live off of 8% and you invest it at 12%, that's a good number.

Speaker 1 Okay. So if you got a million dollars, you'd be living off 80K.

Speaker 1 If you invest it in good mutual funds and it makes makes an average of 12, which the market has averaged 11.8 since it began. The last two years, 23 and 26, or 20, 24 and 23, it averaged over 25%.

Speaker 1 Now, that's not normal, though. But in those two years, if you'd taken off eight, your portfolio would have grown substantially.

Speaker 1 Okay, so if you take off eight, as long as it's making more than eight, the thing will run perpetually.

Speaker 1 And that's invested in good growth stock mutual funds.

Speaker 1 But I think you're sitting around whining about all this stuff in the rearview mirror, and you don't feel like you want to go get it again, and you don't really have a choice. You got to go get it.

Speaker 1 You got an IRS bill. You got all this stuff stacking up around you.
And it all reflects back on this time that you took off. And it costs you half your book of business, cost you your overrides.
And

Speaker 1 yeah, now you've got to go back and rebuild your short-term income.

Speaker 1 All I want you to do is go make $100,000, $150,000 a year for the next three years while you're waiting on to put a little money in the bank, put a little money while you're waiting on the other thing to, your ship to come in.

Speaker 1 Yeah. For God's sake.

Speaker 2 I wouldn't wait for this payout to get control of your money and get rid of this debt.

Speaker 1 You can't live on 60K and pay off 70,000 to the IRS while you're waiting, and you don't know when it's coming. So you've got to go make some money.

Speaker 1 And $20 an hour, that's just a, that's a false offer. You're not going to go do that because that'd be dumb to go do that when you can go make 60 or 80 or 100 bucks an hour out there selling.

Speaker 1 So you're not going to go work at Target. Shut up.
Don't even make that offer. You know, go do the thing that you don't want to do.
Oh, well, it goes with the choices you've made.

Speaker 1 And so that's what you got to do, man.

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 1 you know, I've been in those same exact situations, so I'm not fussing at you. I'm coaching you.
I'm your coach at halftime and we're behind.

Speaker 1 And you need to go out there in the third quarter and catch us back up. And I'm saying, go hit somebody, dude.
Roll up your sleeves and get it. Suck it up, buttercup.
Here we go.

Speaker 2 We've seen some incredible inspirational stories of people in their 60s who cleaned up a mess and still were able to retire with dignity.

Speaker 1 Well, he's going to have a lot of money when the story ends.

Speaker 2 There's a silver lining here.

Speaker 1 But you got to get to that IPO. You got to get to that public offering.
And

Speaker 1 when you get there, you're going to get

Speaker 1 600 to 1.2, you said, out of your share of the stock at that point. And nothing bad is going to happen by you increasing the book of business and increasing your income in the meantime.

Speaker 1 Nothing bad happens except you're not going to get to sit on your butt. That's the only bad thing that happens.

Speaker 2 I do appreciate the honesty of him coming out and saying, I'm lazy.

Speaker 1 I'm lazy. That's really it.
I don't want to do it. But, you know, you put yourself in a position where you don't have that option.

Speaker 1 When you owe the KGB money, I mean the IRS money, you've got to go do stuff to get the wolf away from the door because that wolf's got teeth, man. You don't want those people in your life.

Speaker 1 they'll just go right into your bank account they're not scared they have the power to do whatever they want yeah it's pretty rowdy so and yeah they're scary people they scare me

Speaker 1 in honor of tax day i'm not afraid of many things but on april the 15th i'm afraid of the irs and here's what's interesting i heard this on i was on fox business this morning the irs has issued all these guns And they've had more accidental discharges, the gun going off accidentally, than they have them actually ever firing the the guns at a bad guy.

Speaker 1 Oh boy.

Speaker 1 Well, it's an IRS agent with a gun. Come on.

Speaker 2 That was a bad idea.

Speaker 1 Not a highly trained individual. It's not SEAL Team Six.
This is the Ramsey Show.

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Speaker 1 Randy's in Greensboro, North Carolina. Hi, Randy.
Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 8 Hello. How are you doing today?

Speaker 1 Better than I deserve. What's up?

Speaker 8 This is more of a curiosity type question. I understand that real estate, the value of real estate goes up and the value of anything with wheels goes down.
But the question is, why is that?

Speaker 8 Why does real estate go up? Why does cars? Why does mobile homes and all that stuff?

Speaker 8 Why does that go down that's more or less the uh it's more of a curiosity more of a you know the underlying what's the underlying reason for that

Speaker 1 well there's no magic reason for it in general it's supply and demand there's a shortage of real estate all the time you've heard the saying they're not making any more land and there's all there's traditionally in most

Speaker 1 of the last, say, hundred years or so in America, there's been more buyers of houses than there were houses and so anytime there's a shortage on anything that is a commodity it causes the value causes the cost to go up even something as stupid as you remember a few years ago beanie babies there there people were going after or you remember cabbage patch kids at christmas or something like that when there's a shortage on a toy or Xboxes, there's a temporary shortage, a created shortage, because they just don't make enough to make them uber popular and so um there's more people to buy them than there are items in any commodity whatever it is that there's a shortage of the price goes up that's the main reason and cars they make more of them every year and so they spit off cars like you know thousands and thousands and thousands a day right and so um and then you want the latest and greatest because now there's better technology and so yeah that's the second reason is it's exactly right george the technology on cars has changed way faster than the technology in homes.

Speaker 1 Now, homes are much more technically savvy than they were in the 1960s, for sure, but the actual studs that go on the wall are still tubifors.

Speaker 1 And the actual roofing, it still hasphal shingles on most people's houses, you know, and the actual siding, it's still the same brick.

Speaker 1 You know, and so there's not been a lot of change in the basic structure of a house, and cars have changed dramatically. So cars are more akin to computers than they are houses.

Speaker 1 They make eight bazillion of them new every year and they're not, they're making computers faster than we make people.

Speaker 1 And so when you unbox a computer, it goes down in value because the next one is going to be a lot faster, a lot more technically savvy, and there's no shortage of them. No.

Speaker 1 I mean, everybody and his brother's got six of them. You know, I mean, it's like, is there a shortage of phones? Oh my God, you can get a phone, you know, a smartphone anywhere, anytime.
Same thing.

Speaker 1 And so they've gone up in cost, but mainly because their technology has gone way up. But a used one doesn't go up in cost, only the new one, same as with a car.

Speaker 1 So cars and computers are more akin than cars and houses in this philosophical discussion we're having on appreciation of assets.

Speaker 1 And so that's what you're looking at. The other thing is houses can actually, if you rent them out, create an income.

Speaker 1 Cars,

Speaker 1 hypothetically, I guess you could rent them out, but they don't last long enough to be rental property, so to speak.

Speaker 1 And so you can rent them out by Uber driving, but that's a temporary thing and you run the wheels off the thing. So

Speaker 1 I think that's probably the best answer: the technology shift in the short, it's mainly a commodity. Anytime you're dealing with a commodity, you're dealing with

Speaker 1 the price is not controlled by the value that the thing thing creates. The price is controlled by the shortage or the scarcity or the overabundance, the glut in the market.

Speaker 1 And that's why things like gold, gold doesn't create money. The only thing that drives gold prices is a shortage,

Speaker 1 you know, coming up with more or less gold, people chasing the gold. And so when there's fear or greed, gold goes up.

Speaker 2 Which is happening right now.

Speaker 1 I see the billboards now now for gold. Yeah, when everything's real calm and everybody thinks we're prosperous, gold goes way down.

Speaker 1 Now, the gold people don't talk about that, but it drops like way down. And so, but if it's, if everybody's afraid or everybody's greedy, they're going, oh, look at the price of gold.
Oh, whoa, whoa.

Speaker 1 And they start hyping it up and call Dave Ramsey crazy because he says don't put money in gold. But I don't have any, I can't judge.
the value of gold because there is no inherent value in gold.

Speaker 1 Gold doesn't have value. It's just a gold rock.

Speaker 1 Silver doesn't have value. Diamonds don't have value.
Gemstones don't have value.

Speaker 1 It's just a rock. The only thing that gives it value is there's more people chasing it than there is supply.
People willing to pay for it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And so the other thing that comes into my mind, and it's an interesting question. Thanks for letting us riff on that a little bit, Randy.

Speaker 1 The other thing that comes to mind is I remember going through appraisal class.

Speaker 1 When I was getting my real estate license at 18 years old, one of the things they teach you to pass a real estate test, it's one of the questions back then, was what's the definition of market value?

Speaker 1 In other words, what drives price, right? And the definition of market value of a house, a piece of real estate in general, is what a willing buyer

Speaker 1 will pay to a willing seller where neither is under duress.

Speaker 1 And so if you're not... You know, if you're getting foreclosed on, you're under duress.
So that's not a market value. When you buy a foreclosure, you don't establish market value.
Okay.

Speaker 1 So it's a desperate situation. Because one of them's under duress.

Speaker 1 And if there's a shortage of housing and there's 83 offers coming in on the weekend, that's really not established.

Speaker 1 Like, you know, remember the post-COVID stuff when people lost their dad gum minds on houses, right?

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 but that didn't establish real market value because there was duress on the part of the buyer. Because we're like, oh, I've got to up it.
I've got to up it. It's like an auction.

Speaker 2 It's like eBay. Does someone keep up?

Speaker 1 You kept holding your paddle up. Yeah.
Like in an auction, and you kept running the price up all weekend. And you're paying, you know, considerably more than asking price.

Speaker 1 You're getting a bidding war for a house.

Speaker 1 That's not market value because one of the parties is under duress.

Speaker 1 And so the definition of market value in real estate is what, and it really should be probably for anything, is what would a willing buyer give a willing seller where there is no

Speaker 1 where neither party is under duress.

Speaker 1 And, And, you know, I think about like, I bought the Raptor R, okay, which is the one with the 700 horsepower monster engine in it. It's a beast.
It's a beastie. And

Speaker 1 it's a serious upgrade on the Raptor package. And they didn't make many of them.
Scarcity. And so the dealer price was X,

Speaker 1 but the dealers were selling them for X plus $25,000.

Speaker 2 Because of the demand for them.

Speaker 1 Because how few there were. Like just a handful of them being made

Speaker 1 and people, and more than a handful of people wanting them. So again, a shortage of the good drove the price up.

Speaker 1 And that's what that's the car is not worth more because there's a shortage. Just the shortage drove the price up.
That's all it is.

Speaker 1 And so you can do that with other cars. There's been other, I mean, the Corvette, when they come out with some of the specialty editions and different things,

Speaker 1 there's not many of them. And so the car guys, gals run down there to get one.
And as long as there's an abundance of the thing, though, the price goes down.

Speaker 1 And ultimately, the price goes down on all of them that have wheels and motors. And so that's what we're looking at.
That's a cool question, Randy. Interesting.

Speaker 2 Really made you think there, Dave. Yeah.
Stretched your brain a little bit.

Speaker 1 Yeah, make me scratch the back of my skull. This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 2 Rachel, do you ever get these sketchy text messages that are like, hey, you need to update your address and verify so we can get you the package you didn't order?

Speaker 15 Yes, I have George Sketchy and never trust them.

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Speaker 1 listen guys i've heard just about every excuse for why folks think they can't get ahead with money so let's go ahead and settle this right now you get the final say on what happens with your money That's why you have to start telling your money where to go so you can stop wondering where it went.

Speaker 1 So if you're going to start winning with money, you have to get on a budget. The easiest way to get started and stick to it is with the Every Dollar Budget app.

Speaker 1 It'll help you make a plan for every single dollar coming in and every single dollar going out every single month. And guess what? It's free, so no excuses.

Speaker 1 Download Every Dollar in the App Store or Google Play today.

Speaker 1 We have a debt-free stage in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. You're welcome to come sit in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, watch us do this show Monday through Friday from 1 to 4 Central Time.

Speaker 1 There's free homemade cookies and coffee, and there's usually 50 to a couple of hundred people sitting out here.

Speaker 1 At this moment, there's several hundred out here because on that debt-free stage is a very special debt-free screen, one of our own from Ramsey Solutions.

Speaker 1 Rick Prowl is here with his wife, Helen, or Helene. Helene.
Helene. Thank you.
I knew that, but I wanted to make sure I got it right. So, hey, welcome, guys.
Congratulations. I'm so proud of y'all.

Speaker 1 Hey, Dave. Hey, George.
Hey. Now, we can't ask you what your income is because all your co-workers are standing around.
Hashtag awkward. Yeah.
Yeah. But we will ask you everything else.

Speaker 1 How much debt have you paid off?

Speaker 16 $326,000 in nine years.

Speaker 1 In nine years.

Speaker 1 And I assume that means you people are weird and you paid off your house. We are weird.
That's right. That's the house.

Speaker 1 Congratulations. Well done.
I'm so proud of you. Now, do you want to go further in this or do you want me to leave it alone? Because you told me some stuff the other day in the hall, if I remember.

Speaker 1 I did.

Speaker 1 Actually, our story started 29 years ago when a coworker introduced me to the money game on WTN. So I started listening 29 years ago this month.
Wow.

Speaker 1 And Helene and I actually came to one of the Brentwood Hotel seminars where you were there with your overhead projector. Wow.

Speaker 1 So it actually changed the trajectory of our life, which was very cool financially. But a lot of folks will say, well, then why did it take you 29 years to get here?

Speaker 1 Because we are the poster children for Dave-ish. We knocked out the first two baby steps, and then I thought I might have a better plan.

Speaker 1 And we tried to do three, four, and five all at the same time, and it was a train wreck.

Speaker 1 And it didn't work until

Speaker 1 you came to work here. And once you come to work here 11 years ago,

Speaker 1 then what happened? What were you doing-ish?

Speaker 1 No, we got serious. I was teaching FBU,

Speaker 1 trying to fill out the Baby Step 3 emergency fund. So I was actually cleaning headlights on cars.
I actually did George's

Speaker 1 for about two years. She did a great job last summer.
That's right.

Speaker 2 And that old Chevy Cobalt. That's right.
Made her look real brand new.

Speaker 1 And then we just, we got serious.

Speaker 1 And in addition to just a regular mortgage payment, anything that we got extra, profit sharing, any extra money that came in got funneled directly to extra principal payment. Wow.

Speaker 1 So Rick is one of our product writers. He's been doing content here and helping with ad copy and other things and writing the product scripts and so forth for 11 years, right? That's right.

Speaker 1 Working with all you guys and all the books that come out. So it's pretty cool.

Speaker 2 I don't know what I would have done without you, Rick, on Breaking Free from Broke. You are a savant at what you do.
We're grateful.

Speaker 1 Some of his fingerprints are on this one that came out today,

Speaker 1 Build a Business You Love.

Speaker 1 You got involved in that. Definitely helped us with that as well.
So, you're an incredible, incredible team member. Thank you, Die.
So, we've enjoyed it.

Speaker 1 It feels like you've been here longer than 11 years. I don't know.
Sometimes it feels like it, and then sometimes it doesn't. It's an eternity, Dave.

Speaker 1 I don't mean that way. I mean, it's just,

Speaker 1 it just feels like you've been with us. You're part of this place.
You're part of this place. You're part of who we are.

Speaker 1 So, we love you all. I'm so proud of you.
How's it feel to have your house paid off?

Speaker 16 Amazing.

Speaker 1 It's yeah, it's it's incredible. Um, the first month, so we paid it off exactly nine years to the day.
I was shooting for that seven-year plan that we talk about,

Speaker 1 but then the market dip in 2021 happened, and then we had to replace two vehicles in January of 23.

Speaker 1 And so then we had to rebuild the emergency fund. So

Speaker 1 it was a challenge. Life happened.
That's right.

Speaker 2 So February was a big deal.

Speaker 1 Celebrated 11 years here. paid off the house and became net worth millionaires all at the same time.

Speaker 1 Wow, baby steps millionaire. That's right.

Speaker 1 So that's what you were telling me at the elevator, but I wasn't going to bring that up unless you did. That's right.
So we're good for you, man.

Speaker 1 So proud of you. Baby Steps Millionaires and content and product, principal product writer is his technical title, but it's helping us with all kinds of content now for over a decade.

Speaker 1 And yeah, it's hard to write about this stuff and not go do it. Exactly.
Yes. Yep.

Speaker 1 We just finished another FPU class three weeks ago. I think I've taught 14, 15 now that we've been here.
Wow.

Speaker 2 That's good accountability over the years to keep you you on the plane.

Speaker 1 I've discovered, yeah. And Helene has discovered that that helps us stick to the budget when I'm actually teaching the class.

Speaker 1 The months that we're not teaching the class, I tend to get a little sideways.

Speaker 2 A little lack of days equal to that. That's right.

Speaker 1 Not Helene, but you. Yeah.
No, Helene. Helene's the one that tries to keep me back on there.
Right. I love it.

Speaker 2 I got to ask, Rick, I know your personal life and your heart for generosity and missions. Was that a why in this? Were there other whys as to why you guys did this?

Speaker 1 I think for us, it was just the idea of, as we've talked about here, just not owing anybody anything and that, you know, the money that I'm earning now is all ours.

Speaker 1 So we took that first month's paycheck, paid off the balance of a cruise that we're doing in July.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 we're trying to use that. But yes, the international mission trip is a big part of that.

Speaker 2 I love it. You're in your live like no one else era now.

Speaker 1 Exactly.

Speaker 16 And he taught FPU in Greece. on our international mission.

Speaker 1 Oh, wow. We had several team members here join us a couple couple of years ago on a trip to Athens, and we actually got to teach financial principles to Ukrainian refugees and Syrian refugees.
Wow.

Speaker 1 So, very cool.

Speaker 1 You're a good man. Well, thank you, man.
We're honored to have you on the team, and I'm so proud that this stuff has worked to change your complete family tree.

Speaker 1 Baby Steps Millionaires, house, and everything paid for. And you brought the grandkids.
Helene watches three of the grandkids every day, and the two girls have been practicing with us.

Speaker 1 So they are really

Speaker 1 right. Well, let's get them up here.
I want to hear some grandkids. This is a family tree that's been changed in so many ways.
Oh, they're so cute. They are adorable.

Speaker 2 You got to be watching on YouTube or Spotify video right now. It is too precious.

Speaker 1 Cute. Are you?

Speaker 2 So, what are the names and ages?

Speaker 1 This is Malin. She's four.
And this is Elliston. She's three.
All right. And we've got Lincoln, who's one over here.
Yeah, okay. So Lincoln's going to stay off to the side.
That's going to work.

Speaker 2 Good stuff. Just the innocent bystander.

Speaker 16 And both of our children are debt-well, they have mortgage, but other than that, they're debt-free.

Speaker 1 So they're working

Speaker 1 your family tree. Yep.
Yeah. That was, I don't know if you remember 11 years ago when I started, Dave,

Speaker 1 I started in January, in February, and both of my kids got married later that year, six months later.

Speaker 1 And so we started off with two kids getting married and going through FPU that first year.

Speaker 2 Sounds expensive.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 No, since I had not had a job before that,

Speaker 1 my daughter's budget was $5,000. So she did great.

Speaker 2 That's incredible.

Speaker 1 Love it. That's right.
Well, congratulations, y'all. We love you.
We're so proud of you. And the Ramsey team is out here gathered around because they love you as well and proud of you, too.

Speaker 1 So you set a good, a pretty high bar for the rest of the bunch.

Speaker 2 We love seeing our team members hit Baby Step 7. We celebrate the ball.

Speaker 1 I love seeing our team members be millionaires. That's pretty stinking cool right there, man.
That's right. That's awesome.
So cool stuff. All right.
Rick and Helene from Lebanon, Tennessee.

Speaker 1 Ramsey team member for 11 years. House and everything, paid off $326,000 in the last nine years, and that makes them baby steps millionaires, among other things.
Great job, you guys.

Speaker 1 Count it down, girls. Are you ready? Ready? Three.
One, two, three.

Speaker 1 Make that free.

Speaker 1 That's how it's done. I love it.
We don't get many cuteness in the grandkids. Oh, yeah.
That's a new. That's good.
I like that. This might have have been a first for me.

Speaker 1 Yeah, bring grandkids in there. Bring cute grandkids.
That's good. I like that.
And yeah, that's great, man. How fun.

Speaker 2 I like seeing good people win.

Speaker 1 And I got to tell you, as the owner of this place, to have people on our team being able to become wealthy while they work here doing the stuff that we teach,

Speaker 1 it makes me weepy, man.

Speaker 2 Yeah, well, don't they, I mean, believing in the mission, still teaching FPU 14, 15 times over now.

Speaker 2 This guy's hardcore.

Speaker 1 That's rare.

Speaker 2 That's rare we're breathing over here.

Speaker 1 Yeah, when he writes something, we don't have to worry about what was written. We know exactly what was written

Speaker 1 because it's right online with all the things you teach, I teach, and the personalities are just the mouthpieces of it out here. And it's guys like that that make this play.
Team behind the scenes.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Very, very cool stuff.
Good job, you guys. You're heroes, man.
We're so proud of you. Proud to have you here.
Proud to have you on the stage. Proud to look at those cute kids.

Speaker 1 They are really cute.

Speaker 2 I know. I mean, Rick's a good-looking guy but goodness gracious there's no explanation there's no explanation in him looking at them none whatsoever

Speaker 1 i love it that's a oh fun fun guys

Speaker 1 ha this is the ramsey show

Speaker 1 Real change in your money and relationships is possible. You can break the cycles that have kept you from moving forward.
You can build a better future for yourself, and it starts here.

Speaker 1 Hang out with Dr. John Deloney and I live in a city near you for the Money and Relationships Tour.
Starting next week, we'll be in Louisville, Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth, and Kansas City.

Speaker 1 Time is running out, so grab your tickets while you can at ramseysolutions.com/slash tour.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, George Campbell, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today.
Troy is in Tampa, Florida.

Speaker 1 Hey, Troy, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 11 Hey, good afternoon, Dave. Hey, George.

Speaker 6 Quick question about retirement.

Speaker 11 56 years old, currently working Baby Step 2.

Speaker 11 Only have about $70,000, $80,000 in our retirement fund and wondering if we should at least contribute up to the employee match

Speaker 4 before

Speaker 11 We get to the end of baby steps, which is baby step two, which will be in about two and a half years.

Speaker 1 What do you owe on your consumer debt that's going to take two and a half years

Speaker 11 about 70 000 on what

Speaker 11 um

Speaker 11 personal loans um

Speaker 11 stemming from um

Speaker 11 we had some repairs from hurricane ian uh that uh insurance didn't cover um we just had those uh put in place um i have a student loan that we're wrapping up um

Speaker 8 and uh a car payment What's your car worth?

Speaker 11 About $18,000.

Speaker 1 Okay. And what do you owe on it?

Speaker 6 $18,000.

Speaker 1 And so you have, again, how much in total debt?

Speaker 11 About $70,000.

Speaker 6 Okay. We've already paid off about $12,000.

Speaker 1 Good. And what's your household income?

Speaker 6 $110,000.

Speaker 6 Okay.

Speaker 6 All right.

Speaker 1 And you said you're how old one more time?

Speaker 6 56.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 You don't need to panic. You just need to do this.
And it shouldn't take you two and a half years.

Speaker 1 If it's going to take you two and a half years, you need to sell the car.

Speaker 1 I would pick up extra income somewhere and I would look at what I can sell and get this cleared off. And I'm going to live on nothing.

Speaker 1 Beans and rice, rice and beans, no eating out, no vacations, no nothing.

Speaker 1 You've got to get busy because you've got to clear this so that you can lean in hard on the 15%.

Speaker 1 Because Because if you start at 58 and you go to 68 with 15% of your income, you're going to be okay.

Speaker 8 Okay.

Speaker 1 And in the meantime, get your house paid off too during that same decade. So you go into your early 70s still investing and with a paid-for house, your math is going to be fine.

Speaker 1 You're not going to be eating dog food. I mean,

Speaker 1 you're not going to be a multi-millionaire. but you can make it with this.

Speaker 1 And the fastest way mathematically to make it is to not screw around with this debt is to pour everything on it not change the baby steps it gets you there faster and the power of focus and the little bit of fear or desperation that makes you say i want to change the steps i would use that as my motivation to even sacrifice deeper and work more

Speaker 1 okay yeah let's just understand yeah let's just clear this stuff and um if you're going to keep the car you're going to work like a maniac because you need to be done in about 18 months here

Speaker 2 do you guys have anything in savings

Speaker 11 um just emergency fund and how much um

Speaker 11 we have a thousand dollars for that oh and then i escrow my own uh home homeowner's insurance and taxes um yeah you got to pay that so that's all it yeah it's labeled it's it's set aside so yeah i i think we're budgeting right we're doing the right things um you know it's just that little fear factor you know do i want to I don't want to leave any money on the table, but yet again, I want to get rid of this debt.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's a, it's a fair question. And

Speaker 1 I don't hear

Speaker 1 in the way you're asking the question any dysfunction. I think it's just an intellectual exercise and said, okay,

Speaker 1 I'm game on. What's the best way to play the game at this way? And that's a fair question, but I still think the best way to play is just straight through.
What do you think?

Speaker 2 Well, part of what got us here, Troy, is doing too many things at once and not really focusing on anything.

Speaker 2 And my worry is you keep doing that for the next five to 10 years instead of just getting aggressive, like Dave mentioned. And I crunched the numbers for you here with our investment calculator.

Speaker 2 If you waited until 58 and you started dumping that 15% of that $110,000 income, you'd have a million bucks, but you're going to have to work into your early $50.

Speaker 1 That's with no match and no raises. That's nothing.

Speaker 2 No match, no raise. You just keep that $53.

Speaker 1 He did make a million dollars.

Speaker 2 And so you will have a million, but you have to work till.

Speaker 1 I was wrong. I said you weren't going to make it.

Speaker 2 He'll have to work till 73, which is not ideal. But for a late start to still have a million bucks, that's a pretty good life.

Speaker 1 Oh, you said 73. I said 68.
That's where I said, yeah. He's going to have to work a little longer to hit that.

Speaker 2 That's not like a magic number that allows you to retire or not, but just a good ballpark to go.

Speaker 1 Well, the thing is, with match and with raises, he might get there by 68. I might be wrong.
Yeah. I didn't think of that.

Speaker 2 And get the house paid off and start dumping even more on there. It's definitely possible.

Speaker 1 But the goal is to

Speaker 1 have a good-sized nest egg. No debt, including the house.
And

Speaker 1 that's when you can afford to look and and quit looking over your shoulder.

Speaker 1 And the fastest way to get there is to work the baby steps. But baby step two, man, it's just unbelievable intensity, unbelievable sacrifice.

Speaker 1 And truthfully, that getting completely strange and weird is a lot easier at 26 than it is at 56.

Speaker 1 I mean, it's just,

Speaker 1 I'm 64.

Speaker 1 If I had to do that right this second, it would be very, very unpleasant. If Dave was out here delivering pizzas.
It'd be very unpleasant.

Speaker 2 I don't want him showing up at my door. It's all I'm saying.

Speaker 1 Hey, hey, hey.

Speaker 2 Yes, that would be great. I would actually love that.

Speaker 1 We should do that like an undercover. Because you're a good tipper.

Speaker 2 That's true.

Speaker 2 If I saw Dave at my door, you better believe I'd be tipping well.

Speaker 2 I'd give him a copy of Total Money Makeover as well.

Speaker 1 If I show up as your Uber driver with some strange sunglasses.

Speaker 2 Can we do that as a Dave? As a gag? Like an undercover boss situation?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I'll give you a undercover baby step tour.

Speaker 1 I want to get one of those visor hats that has hair sticking out of it. You know, those hats.
That would be a great undercover boss. Oh, man.

Speaker 1 That's my disguise. That would actually be my alter ego, Bubba.

Speaker 2 If I see Dave with hair, I get it.

Speaker 1 Bubba Ramsey is going to show up here. That ain't Dave.

Speaker 2 That might be his brother.

Speaker 1 Oh, my goodness.

Speaker 1 He's my brother. All right.
Anyway, Sasha's in Manchester, New Hampshire. Save us from ourselves.
Yes, Sasha.

Speaker 1 How can we help?

Speaker 14 How are you doing today, Dave?

Speaker 1 Better than I deserve. How are you?

Speaker 14 That's what I was waiting for. I'm a big fan of the show, and I need your help.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 14 I watch your every day. I've been doing it for like two or three months.

Speaker 1 Okay, so here's the deal.

Speaker 14 Oh, yeah, you're very welcome. I actually am trying to go by your seven baby steps, and I have a little bit of a unique situation.

Speaker 14 I'm a 43-year-old woman out of Manchester, New Hampshire, who

Speaker 14 lost her husband January 1st, 2024.

Speaker 1 I'm sure. I'm

Speaker 14 Thank you. And I'm trying to figure out the seven baby steps.
And my problem is

Speaker 14 my husband took out three different credit cards, one's for credit one, one's for capital one, and one's for

Speaker 14 Tiba, which is Bubbs Discount Furniture.

Speaker 1 Did they have your name on them?

Speaker 14 Yeah, they all do.

Speaker 14 Both our names are on them. He was trying to increase my credit so I could get

Speaker 1 a job with that. Before I run out of time, ask me a question right quick.

Speaker 14 Yeah.

Speaker 14 I have $2,914.09 in debt

Speaker 14 between all three credit cards, and two of them I know are in collections and written off. Do I still have to pay them?

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 1 They have to be paid. Or if they're written off, you can settle with them for offer them a lower amount.
If you do that, two things. Get it in writing before you give them any money.

Speaker 1 and do not give them electronic access to your checking account.

Speaker 1 So you cut them up, you send them a money order, you send them a wire, you give them a prepaid debit card, something like that, and you get it in writing. And so, let's say one of them is $1,500 and

Speaker 1 it's been written off, then

Speaker 1 you got to do that.

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 1 you know, the,

Speaker 1 you know, you settle it. You got to get that done.
And

Speaker 1 so you settle it for pennies on the dollar. If it's $1,500,

Speaker 1 you need to,

Speaker 1 you know, offer them $500 settlement in full.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Wow.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 All right. Yeah.
So anyway, get it in writing. No electronic access to your checking account under any circumstances.
Thank you for calling, Darling. I hope that helps you.

Speaker 2 Hey, what are you still doing here? You know, the rest of the show is happening on the Ramsey Network app, right? So you got to jump over there to continue watching. You can download it for free.

Speaker 2 Just go to your app store, type in Ramsey Network. It's completely free.
And I'll drop a link in the show notes to make it easy for you. So if you're watching on the app, you're in luck.

Speaker 2 But if you're watching anywhere else, this show is over for you. So jump onto the app and let the fun continue.

Speaker 1 All right. By the way,

Speaker 1 Go on now.

Speaker 2 Don't make it weird.

Speaker 2 Okay, I got nowhere to go, so you need to go.

Speaker 1 Okay. But bye now.

Speaker 1 All right, this is getting weird over there, guys. So, what do we do?