Gambling with Your Future Is a Losing Game

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work

that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

George Camill, number one best-selling author, Ramsey personality, host of the George Camill Show on YouTube, a big hit on Ramsey Networks.

He's my co-host today.

The phone number here is 888-825-5225.

Deborah is in Sacramento.

Hi, Deborah.

How are you?

Hi, I'm okay.

What's up?

Well,

I'm 69.

My husband is 79.

He's still working.

He's a pharmacist.

And we were married later in life.

We've been married now 11 years.

The first few years we were together, I helped him.

I'm retired in real estate.

I helped him sell a few properties.

So we had a little over a million dollars.

And then I was starting over.

I got caught in the mortgage meltdown.

We were very careful with our money, I thought.

And the last few years, he's been evasive about our savings.

And

anyway, I started digging around

this past January.

My husband has a gambling problem.

Our savings is down to $15,000.

He gambled away a million dollars?

Yes.

This was over about a 10-year,

nine and a half, 10-year program.

How do you go nine years and not

find this out?

Not know what's going on.

You didn't check the account one time in nine years?

Well, the statements were coming.

No, the last time, because I said the last, I haven't seen anything, and he had the

stacked up in his office.

He was just evasive about it, and he was saying, oh, this is how much we have.

Which

makes me going to look at it that much faster.

I mean, like 11 years ago.

Well, nine years ago, we actually merged everything together.

We've been, we

about

six months after we were married, we

merged everything together.

And a year and a half ago, something that was kind of a warning sign was that I saw a late notice for taxes.

And I said, why are our taxes late?

You know, and then I started digging around and I called in and found out he missed a payment on his estimated taxes.

So we took care of that.

At that time,

I started dividing our finances.

My credit score is almost $800 and his is hovering around $600.

And then I started opening all the mail and everything, and he's moving money around.

His current salary is about $350 a year.

He's still working.

So

what kind of gambling is he doing, hon?

Sports.

Okay.

And this is a thing.

So now you sat down with him and you said,

you've lost a million dollars.

And what did he say?

He said,

I can stop anytime I want to.

I'm not going to gamble anything August, to show you.

We can get it under control.

We can keep it down to $700 or $800 a month.

And I said, $700 or $800 a month on, I mean,

he said he doesn't have a problem.

Oh, he's got

a money.

It's a massive problem.

Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

No, this is a massive problem.

I talked to one person.

I spoke with his brother about it because I don't know who else.

I don't know.

I'm not going to tell my family about this.

I don't know who else.

I'm sorry.

This is so devastating.

This is an 80-year-old man who has a gambling addiction.

And he's still working and he's still

working.

He's a thriving, flaming, white-hot gambling addiction.

And he's in complete denial about it.

And so,

you know, you need to talk to a marriage therapist immediately and start making some demands on him because otherwise you're going to be homeless.

It's crazy, and there's

everywhere.

Yes, but who do I talk to?

You talk to

a marriage counselor and you start talking to them, and you call someone that does addiction counseling, and you start talking to them.

Both of them can give you the framework by which you lead them into an ultimatum.

And the ultimatum is you stop cold turkey, you are going to Alanot, you're going to Gamblers Anonymous, and you are going to a therapist, and you are not gambling another dime, or you will not see me anymore.

This is your only chance.

I think you've been too soft, too kind, too trusting for a decade now.

And, you know, and

your avoidance of this for 10 whole years is absurd,

which causes this.

So you knew something was wrong a long time ago.

You just didn't know what or how much or how big.

And

you just walked away and let him do it anyway.

And I don't care what the guy makes.

When you lose a million dollars gambling and I can cut it down to $700 a month, that's so funny.

It's so stupid.

Let's divert that to treatment and healing, not to more gambling.

Yeah.

So he has a serious,

serious fan duel problem.

I thought it was just the young guys guys falling for the sports betting stuff, Dave.

It's wild to hear an 80-year-old man.

Fastest-growing addiction in America today, other than online porn.

Wow.

Number two is gambling.

And these are the downsides of the internet.

They're both very accessible compared to when I was a kid.

And so porn has just completely gone bananas in terms of the

impact and the number of people whose lives are being destroyed.

And then secondly,

a close second is gambling.

When I started doing this show 30 years ago, you know, it was cocaine or alcohol, was the addiction of choice.

But now it's sports betting, online gambling, and porn.

And they're just,

it's very, because just, it's right there at your finger.

It's right there on the internet.

You got a smartphone.

You can get addicted.

It's that easy now.

And so scary.

And you don't have to go to Vegas anymore to blow money on it.

Gambling.

And here's what's interesting.

The guy's a pharmacist.

He knows addiction.

He studied it.

And you don't get a pharmacy.

He dispenses.

You don't get a pharmacy degree without that.

So

because you're in the business of medication, hello.

So,

yeah.

He's in a very precarious thing.

He could lose his license because, you know, they start worrying about him delanoxy or something on the side to make his gambling deal.

So he's really, and the saddest thing, 79 years old.

And how much longer can he actually work?

Even if he wants to, his body eventually is going to say, I can't do it anymore.

And they're going to be broke.

Honey, you got to break this and you got to break it in half.

Or

if you hang around and watch this ship go down, you're going down with it.

So you don't have a choice.

You have got to address this head-on, very bluntly, very, with very extreme reaction from you

because this is an extreme situation.

But you need coaching more than a couple of guys on a podcast, and you need a good therapist in your corner to help you frame this.

But, you know, you can't really go back and go, well, I thought something was wrong.

Something's wrong.

We lost a million dollars.

This guy's an addict.

The red flag is ready.

So, now what do we do?

Yeah.

Now, what we do is we stop.

We try to rebuild with his income and we try to rebuild his psyche and his psychology and his spirit to where he's not functioning like an addict.

So,

guys, if you've noticed the most expensive advertising available to man right now is all being bought up by sports betting.

They're sponsoring everything.

MGM, Banduel.

Do you think they're paying for those ads

from their savings?

No, they're paying for those ads with all you people that are losers.

You lose your money to them.

That makes you a loser.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens.

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Michelle's in Wisconsin.

Hey, Michelle, how are you?

I'm good.

Thanks.

How about you?

Better than I deserve.

How can I help?

So I'm 45 years old.

I'm a single, widowed, mom of two.

My kids are 12 and 15.

I do well financially.

I get Social Security.

I put all my money away that I can for HSA and retirement and everything.

So I'm doing well.

My only debt is my mortgage, and I should pay that off in the next 10 months.

I have $15,000 left on it.

I have a 3% interest rate on it.

So I'm doing well.

So my question is, back at the start of COVID,

some friends told me I should invest money in the stock market because it had dropped.

And they kind of helped me through it.

I opened an account.

I had some of my husband's life insurance money I put into it.

It was about $270,000.

And over the last five years, I've done a little investing, not a ton, but some.

And now I am at $1.1 million.

So I've done really well.

Yeah, wow.

Yeah.

So I don't, I don't know, this year when I hit the million mark, I kind of got nervous about it.

And I don't know if I should just keep going, if I should start to sell, because I have over 500,000 and unrealized gains that, you know, could go.

So

I just I don't know kind of what I should do with it.

Okay.

So

well, what we teach and what I have done personally is I invest in good growth stock mutual funds.

I don't buy and sell single stocks.

And the reason I don't is the data tells us that over time,

what you've pulled off, congratulations, is not sustainable.

The research tells us that that's, you know, for instance, people, you're not doing this, but people who are day trading, they're buying and selling all during the day, 97% of them lose money within a year.

Okay.

So that's an example.

Okay.

That's people that think they can beat the system.

Now, you have not been day trading, but you have been trading

a little bit.

So, where did these gains come from?

Explain it to me.

So, I have 20 stocks, and probably most of that is within like four stocks that I've done really well on.

And one of them is Palantir that I bought more recently, and that's a good portion of it.

So, it's kind of in four stocks.

The rest are

between 3,000 and 10,000 gains, which I'm not too worried about.

I'm sure they'll continue to go up.

The majority of the money you made was from the four stocks, not the 20.

Yeah, well, she invested in 20, and four of them hit.

Yeah, and

the other 16 have done okay,

but not the.

I mean, they've done good.

Yeah, they're not the hockey stick, though, up into the right.

The rest of us is, yeah.

Okay, that makes sense.

So

here's the thing:

20 stocks is not a well-diversified portfolio and four sure is the devil isn't

and diversification equals lowered risk diversification means to spread around and your your risk is you're you're the karate kid you're standing on one foot hoping you can kick

you follow me instead of firmly planted on two with a solid base and so um

you know you've done well i don't i'm not besmirching that, but I'm not going to recommend that you keep doing that or that anybody do that.

I'm glad for you.

I'm happy that you've made it.

But again,

the data tells me that

most likely you're not going to continue this trend.

And so

it would scare me if I woke up and half of my fortune was in four stocks.

Because as those four companies go, so goes my fortune.

And I want to be spread out more than that.

So a typical gross stock mutual fund has 90 to 200 stocks in it.

And if you're in four different categories of gross stock mutual funds, growth, growth and income, aggressive, growth, and international, that puts you in somewhere between 400 and 1,000 different companies.

And so it's all spread out.

And so one or two companies going up or down does not change your life.

It's the movement of the whole market that changes your life when you're invested with a well-diversified portfolio.

Instead, you know, you wake up every morning thinking about these companies more than they do.

You have to.

I mean, it would stress me.

And so, you know, you called to ask.

So what would I do?

I would say, thank you, God, that this happened.

I've got this money, and I'm going to make it safe now so it doesn't slip away from me.

And so

it's akin to I hit on the roulette wheel and I'm up 200 bucks.

So I'm walking away from the table and I'm leaving the casino

while I'm up.

And you'll likely have maybe, I don't know, 70 or 80 grand in taxes you'll pay, which out of 1.1, big whoop.

Yeah.

So I would sit down with a Smart Investor Pro, go to Ramseysolutions.com, pick some good mutual funds, and move this to a well-diversified portfolio.

And if it's making 10% average, it'll double every seven years.

So seven years from now, you'll have $2 million.

14 years from now, you'll have 4 million.

21 years from now, you'll have 8 million.

Just as steady as a rock.

Just as so predictable, it's sickening.

And instead of

you're at the fair and you're on the roller coaster and then you got off and ran straight on to the tilt of whirl,

and you're going to throw up.

I would not recommend that.

I mean, this is,

I'm, again,

I'm happy that you made some money.

I'm a wee bit surprised that you made some money, but I'm happy you did.

And just like if somebody says, I went to Vegas and I made a million dollars, I put 275 on the roulette wheel and I made a million dollars.

I'm happy for you, but I don't recommend that as a methodology to

become wealthy because you'll end up with nothing.

And

yeah, I was counseling a

in the early days, I was coaching a lady that had $900,000 in her company in her 401k, and

she was 69 years old.

And it was a big-time name-brand company that anybody would know if I mentioned it.

Household name, okay?

And a big, big company, major stock.

And

they made some mistakes in some of their product launches, and their stock went down 38%

in two quarters.

So she

was investing 100% of her 401k is in company stock.

Oh, man.

She had one stock.

So as that company goes, so goes her future.

So her almost million dollars went down by almost 400,000 in two months or in two quarters.

And she came to me, what do I do?

And I'm like,

I don't know what you do.

We're not going to write it down and then write it down, then write it down, hope when it comes up, I'm going to cut my losses and get out of Dodge.

And so instead of a million dollars to work with, you know, we had $600,000 to work with.

And because she wasn't diversified.

But it was a name-brand, predictable, experienced, boring company.

Shouldn't have done that.

But it, you know, and it hadn't done that.

It had gone up all these years.

But then about the time she needs it, she hits retirement age, boom, this thing goes down the dead gum hole.

And so that's the kind of thing you're facing.

And

diversification is a basic financial principle.

The first thing they teach you in financial planning.

The Bible says it, spread your portions to seven, yes to eight, for disaster may come upon the land.

Spread it out.

Money is like manure.

Spread out, it grows things.

Left in one pile, it stinks.

I like that.

And the slower you grow it, the more likely you are to actually keep it and replicate that.

You know, the proverb says, wealth gained hastily will dwindle.

Whoever gathers little by little will increase it.

So unless you got a crystal ball or you're Nancy Pelosi, I would not be betting on any single stocks.

Whoa.

Sorry, Nance.

She's been doing very well for herself.

She dropped it in there.

Well, you just isn't.

I wonder if she's, if Sarah's maybe for Michelle is friends with Nancy.

Maybe that's who told her to get out of these stocks years ago.

Somebody helped her pick the customer.

Somebody knew something.

Yeah, that's interesting.

Yeah.

I wouldn't accuse Michelle of that.

Michelle seems like she's a sweet lady.

Just leave her alone, George.

Don't be abusing the customer.

Leave Michelle alone.

Don't be abusing the customer's porch.

Well, see, now everyone else goes, well, if I just picked the right stocks, I can be like Michelle.

That's the scary thing.

That's true.

If you pick the right stocks, you'd be like Michelle.

You go back in time.

That means

four times out of 20, you hit.

That's a pretty heavy failure rate.

Four times out of 20 you hit.

Think about it.

The statistic, I mean, if you got four out of 20 answers on a test right, you would get an F.

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Brett is in Kansas.

Hi, Brett.

How are you?

How are you doing, Dave?

Doing well.

Good.

How can I help?

Well, about seven years ago, you and I spoke on your show.

At that time, I was graduating college, moving to a new city for my first job, and getting engaged.

And you won't remember that call, but I do.

So thank you back then for sharing some hard truths with me.

Since then, paid off student loans.

Just at about two months into marriage, my wife and I were debt-free.

So over the last six years, had two beautiful girls, saved up 20% for our house, cash flow to renovations.

And

today I looked up at my retirement account and it's at $250,000.

And next month I'll be 30.

And I just feel so incredibly grateful and blessed.

Essentially, my question is,

am I at a point where I've essentially funded retirement

and because my wife and I have hopes and goals and dreams to build our own house and when we're done having kids, start a business and would it make more sense to stay save that same money but outside of a retirement account where we really can't get to it until we're old?

What's your income, household income?

It's not $140, $150.

Okay.

You've done an amazing job.

Congratulations.

It's kind of fun to get to talk to somebody that seven years later actually did what I told them to do.

The where are they now?

And you're like, oh, good.

That's pretty impressive.

And so I think it worked.

And because you listened and you're wise and you're steady and you guys have built a wonderful life, I mean, what you described is a pretty incredible thing to be in your 20s and be sitting where you're sitting.

Well, if you put 15%, which is where you are, you're in baby steps four, five, and 6, 15% of your income into retirement, you still have room

to build some other side money.

How much do you owe on the home?

We're probably in the 160,000, 170 range.

Okay.

And what were you making when you came out of college?

$68,500.

So your income has doubled in seven years.

Okay.

So

let's visit seven years from today then.

And let's say that your income doubled, which really wouldn't be that unusual in your world.

Okay.

And seven years from today, your house would easily be paid for because it'll probably be done in about four years.

And seven years from today, you've continued to put 15% aside.

At that point, your house paid for,

it's going to be very easy to do what you're talking about without abandoning the retirement saving.

So I'm going to delay your,

if I were in your shoes, I would delay what you're requesting for four years.

And then seven years from today, you'll have a nice side fund, a paid-for house, and a fully funded rocking retirement plan that has probably about $700,000 in it.

So I'm going to guess and say roughly five years from today, you're going to have a net worth of a million dollars with what I'm describing.

And because house will be paid for, you're already at $250.

And the $250 in seven years, if it's in good mutual funds, it'll be $500.

Plus, you're going to be adding to it.

So you're going to be at $500 there.

The house can be paid for.

It's going to be worth $500.

You're going to be a millionaire in about five years, give or take.

And that's pretty cool.

And when that house gets paid for, what you can't,

your mind, your intellect can grasp it right now, but you really can't, your emotions can't.

About the time your house gets paid for, now you're making more money and you have zero bills.

The ability to step on the gas and build that side fund really fast, it's going to happen.

And because I've watched it over the years and I've done it.

And so,

because you reach what we call the pinnacle point where you reach the top of the hill and now you put your hands up on the handlebars and coast down the other side.

Your money's now making more money than you make.

And that's where you're going to be at that point.

You're going to turn the corner there.

So if I'm you, I'm going to say no, not today.

But I think it's a great question and a great target.

But it's probably going to be about four years before you get there when the house gets paid off.

And then when the house gets paid off, you're going to use that money that you've been dumping on baby step six to build your side fund with.

And that's exactly what my wife and I did, Dave.

You know, very similar story to our friend here.

And we just knocked the mortgage out fast in a few years.

And then we freed up that mortgage payment to be able to invest.

And once you hit that baby step seven, you can invest beyond the 15%.

So still max out the retirement accounts to go do that.

But even if you build the side pile like Dave's talking about, I crunched some numbers to give you some hope here.

From 35 to 55.

So that's 20 years.

You're still far from retirement.

You would have 1.5 million.

If you took 2,000 bucks and just threw it in a non-retirement account on the side once that house is paid off.

That's your side fund is a million and a half.

That's not even touching your actual retirement nest egg.

And so like Dave said, you can build it pretty quickly.

That's two grand a month.

If you never got a raise, you just kept that two grand a month going, 24 grand a year into a side account.

And that's the normal rate of return, 10%.

It's what we've seen in the U.S.

stock market.

I've collapsed it into some other things, but when we first paid off our house,

it was 25, it was 150, 1,600 bucks or whatever, long time ago.

And I just rounded it to $2,500.

And I opened a fresh mutual fund with $2,500.

And just to see what paying yourself a house payment turns into.

I just wanted to emotionally experience it.

How fast that account became a million dollars blew my mind.

Wow.

Just paying myself a house payment.

Because there's no interest on only the one you're making from compound growth.

Yeah.

Because the other thing is, you're so used to already paying a house payment.

And I was paying extra on the house, obviously.

And so I paid it off.

And so I just took $1,500, rounded it to $2,500, put an automatic draft on the checking account, just like I was still making a payment, only paying it myself in a mutual fund.

And how fast that mutual fund became a million bucks was mind-blowing.

Kayla is in Texas.

Hi, Kayla.

How are you?

I'm doing well.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

All right.

So I am supposed to receive inheritance from my grandparents.

My grandma, unfortunately, has been gone for two and a half years now.

My uncle, the trustee, hasn't distributed anything.

And so

I have two questions.

The one is, what's a respectful way to approach him of when he's going to distribute the money?

And my second question is, once he does, what is the best way to utilize that money to pay off the debt and become financially more healthy?

Wow.

How old are you?

35.

Okay.

And your parents are gone?

My dad is, but

it's not my dad's parents that's gone.

It's my mom.

Okay.

All right.

So your mom's alive?

Oh, no, no.

I thought it's the, I'm sorry, I misunderstood you.

My my mother is is gone, uh but my my dad is alive.

Okay, but it's hi it's your mother's brother that is that that's the uncle.

Yes, correct.

Okay, okay.

And you said you're how old again?

Thirty-five.

Okay, all right.

Um

are you in the same town with him?

I am not.

He's in Kansas.

I'm in Texas.

Okay.

All right.

Well, um

do you have any idea what you're supposed to to be receiving in dollar amount?

I don't know the dollar amount.

So we had a trust set up.

I know that the house is in the trust, and they sold the house.

He sold the house in April for $450,000.

My grandparents had a very similar mindset to you when it came to money where they bought it.

I mean, if you just called him up and said, hey, Unc, I'm just checking in.

I know you got all this stress and everybody bothering you about this, and I don't want to be a problem to you, but I'm trying to figure out what I'm going to do with my bills and all.

Do you have any idea roughly what the timeline is?

And see what he says.

Would that be okay?

So the only thing that I worry about, my grandparents and my uncle were

very

touchy when it came to money, and I just didn't want to be perceived as greedy.

It's not greedy.

It's calling up and finding out what's going on.

They named

it.

Right?

In the will and the trust, you're named to be the, you're inheriting this money.

It's not greed, it's just what's owed.

I'm just asking for an update.

Okay, so that's the thing.

So it's not greedy.

The decision on greedy has already been made.

I'm getting the money.

All I want is an update.

And, you know, that's not.

If that doesn't work, you can go with an attorney route and formal demand letters and probate and all that.

But I wouldn't go.

I wouldn't go there.

I wouldn't go there if you don't have to.

Yeah.

Just say, hey,

I need an update.

And if he won't give you one, he's Smart Alec or something, then hire an attorney and have them contact.

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Sarah is in North Carolina.

Hi, Sarah.

How are you?

I'm fine.

How about yourself?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

Okay.

So I am 36.

I have three children with

the man that I've been married to for 18 years.

My mother passed away back in 2013, and that was the only kind of any family whatsoever that I had.

I'm not proud of the fact, but it is a very codependent situation, if you will.

I was a stay-at-home mom until my son started school.

He's 10, and he started fifth grade this year.

I spoke with my husband about two years ago.

We brought up the subject of needed marriage, needing marriage counseling, things like that.

I discussed with him that I was just not happy with the way that things were and that, you know, I thought we needed to speak with a lawyer or something like that.

He's a mechanic, I will say that.

And

ever since we had that conversation about two two years ago, I've had three vehicles that have torn up and that has cost me work.

And he's the only person that has worked on these vehicles.

He's the only person that's maintenance them or that's fixed them, if anything, has torn up.

He gets very upset.

I guess you could say I'm kind of confused about whether I'm in an abusive relationship or not because he's not physical with me, but he's kind of taking my resources away in an effort to keep me here instead of trying to work through something for our children so that we can separate and give them a more peaceful environment.

And financially and resource-wise, I'm stuck.

She's all that I have and I just don't know where to start trying to get my job.

How much do you earn?

I don't earn anything right now.

I don't have the vehicle that I have right now just got fixed two weeks ago.

And that is not any, I mean, that's a 2006 Nissan Maxima.

That's not anything that's dependable itself, even though it's been fixed.

When I say taking resources away, I very much so mean like

he's the one that works.

He gets paid.

He gives me money on Cash App each week that I take, you know, to the store and buy what we need for the house and for the kids and stuff.

But the money that I get is what he gives me.

And

if I go anywhere, he knows where I go.

Like I said, every time that I've had a job, I was making about $25 an hour.

I do private care nursing, and I've been doing that off and on for about six years.

But like I said, as soon as I brought up the situation of,

you know, I think we need to separate, there started becoming a lot of problems, especially with my transportation back and forth to work.

Are you saying he's like messing with your car?

I don't understand.

Yes.

Like he's actively breaking your car.

So he can't hold it.

How old are your children, baby?

i'm sorry

just saying yeah how old are your babies

my

our youngest he'll be 11 on the 29th and then we've got one that'll be 16 on the 24th and then our oldest she graduates this year she's 17 she turns 18 in february okay all right

and um it's very um he's a bit of a bully sometimes about it he makes it very clear that he doesn't Let me help you.

Stop.

I'll help you.

Stop.

This is an abusive relationship.

Okay.

Anytime someone calls up and says, my spouse is tampering with my car,

and he's bullying, he's controlling, and he's only giving me a few dollars, this is an abusive relationship.

You are in an abusive relationship.

Do you hear me?

Okay.

So you need to get on the phone and contact a local pastor there in your town and tell them you need some help.

And you need to get some help.

And you need to do some help to get new housing and get a new life set up.

This is not negotiable.

I know that

I'm not trying to make a, I mean, the financial statement

is irresponsible.

This is sick.

Don't make excuses.

This is a mess.

It's sick, and you know it.

He's tampering with your car, you just said.

Hello.

Somebody's going to die.

This is sick.

This is wrong.

Okay?

You need to get some help and you need to get some distance.

Only chance this marriage heals is for him to get some help.

And the only chance that happens is if he thinks you're gone because you're gone.

Yeah,

there's no healing that.

It's just the resources.

No, that's what I'm telling you.

I want you to to get on the phone.

I want you to go see it, pick out a church that's a good, large church in that area.

Go sit down with their team, with their team of counselors, their team of pastors, and tell them you don't have any resources and you're in this situation that's dangerous and they will help you.

You've not been hit, so I don't know if a domestic violence shelter will take you or not, but you could contact one of those as well.

Okay.

But this is toxic.

It's wrong.

And it's evil.

If If you were my little sister, I would be over there packing your stuff right now and loading your car up while I argued with you because you kept crawl fishing on me.

And I mean, like, he knows that.

I'm not going to argue with you.

He verbalizes that.

He verbalizes like that they're not going to do anything because he doesn't put his hands on.

Well, they, I don't know who they are, but they are a divorce attorney and he doesn't have his wife and kids anymore.

That's who they are.

And you go get a job and support yourself and your kid.

Yeah.

And you can.

I mean, he knows that's the goal, and that's what he's trying to keep me from.

Like, I'm not going to be able to do that.

No kidding.

No kidding.

The cheapest I've heard is $4,000.

So you don't have to convince me.

I'm already convinced.

Didn't take me but a minute and a half.

Now you're convincing yourself.

Are you going to call a pastor today or not?

Yes.

Today.

Yes.

Girl.

Yes.

Okay.

It's gone on long enough.

As a matter of fact, it's gone on too long.

Thank you.

The first time somebody screws with your car, that's endgame.

We're done.

We're done.

Okay.

This is out-of-control behavior.

You're done.

All right.

So I'm going to put you on hold, and Kelly's going to get your numbers and stuff, and we're going to follow up.

And if you don't call a pastor, I'm going to start calling people around you.

Okay.

You're going to do this.

Okay.

Because this is not safe for you, girl.

You're one step from getting smacked.

You're one one step from getting your nose broke

you're you're right this fuse is really short I've done this for a long long time and I know what I'm doing so you have got to get some help this guy might be redeemable but today we're not having that discussion

He's done too many things in this one conversation to earn to you know for you to stay in this house.

You need to get out of there.

And then from that separation point, if y'all want to work on your marriage and he wants to work on his behavior and start being a real man instead of a little twerp, then we can talk about this.

But right now, your husband's a twerp.

And if he doesn't like that, he can call me.

I'll be happy to talk to him about it.

I'm not afraid of him.

I can tell you that.

So, Kelly, you pick up.

I want her name and phone number and then get with the church team and line her up with a couple of pastors and let's get some help in this girl's life.

I think she's going to do it.

I don't know.

I hope we convinced her that it's a desperate enough situation.

And I would start recording some of these conversations.

Well, he said they're never going to, I mean, at least have some documentation to go, here's what's going on.

Yeah, I don't even need that.

I'm just gone.

I'm not negotiating with this.

We're not having a discussion about what happened.

It happened.

Okay.

And so,

you know, one of the

signs that you're dealing with evil is there's confusion.

If there's confusion in the room and there's like, I know I said this and this person is looking at me saying, I did not say it.

I know I did it.

I went back and wrote it down.

I know it happened.

And then I'm looking at them later and they're gaslighting, acting like it didn't happen.

Now you know you're dealing with evil because evil always confuses.

Truth is always clear and crystal clear.

and knowledgeable.

But evil's always got confusion.

There's always this circular thing.

And you can hear it even in her conversation with herself.

Yeah.

How circular it is.

It just keeps coming back around again.

I don't want to come back around through it again.

I just want to leave it.

The disclaimers, the excuses.

Out.

Get out.

Screw my car.

Unbelievable.

You little twerk.

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual, amazing relationships.

I'm Dave Ramsey, your host.

Thank you for joining us.

George Camill, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author and co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour, a big hit on the Ramsey networks.

He's my co-host today.

Michael's in Texas.

Hey, Michael, what's up?

Hi, Michael.

Sorry.

Hi, Dave.

So I'm just

I got a lot of

debt left over from a wedding I had four months ago.

And my wife has just recently lost her job also two months ago.

And

I've been watching your show, trying to

get the gauge on how I can solve this.

So far, I've

sold my car,

my Toradola that I got last year.

I was paying $400 a month for it.

Instead, I bought a 2013 Dodge Dart outright.

And

that would just be cheaper to have that with no payments and just insurance on that instead of

that.

How much debt have you got, Michael?

Well,

total,

I have $25,000 from credit card debt

and $10,000 for

student loans and $8,000 or $7,500 on my wife's car that is giving us some issues.

And what do you make?

Three months ago.

I make

$42,000 a year.

And what was she making before she fired?

She didn't make too much.

She was a server.

She

made maybe $1,200 a month.

Okay.

So what's she going to do with her life?

Well, that's what we're trying to figure out.

You need to do it now.

It's been two months.

I do agree.

She's been looking.

Could she not pick up another serving job in the meantime?

And places are desperate for that.

That's what we're looking at.

She's applied to so many jobs.

She's only had three interviews over the past two months.

I mean, she was applying for jobs even before she got fired.

And so far, nothing.

She's applied to gas stations.

Did she go to school or was it just you?

No, sir.

So I graduated with my associate.

She's been to school.

She's not,

I guess she calls it not academically inclined.

I'm just saying, did she have a degree in something?

And what was that?

No, sir.

Okay.

And your associates is in what?

I have an associate of science.

Okay.

And you guys are, what, 23?

We're both 21.

Oh, okay.

Pretty good guess.

Almost like I've done this.

Okay.

And,

all right, you're 21 years old.

You've been married four months.

Yes, sir.

You put $25,000 on a credit card, and she was a server, and you're making $40,000.

So

you wised up and sold your car.

That's smart.

So what you have is an income problem, and income comes from work.

Right.

She needs to do some.

I don't want to hear any more excuses.

This is bull crap.

You can't get a job in this economy.

It's bull crap.

Okay?

As far as I know, she, I mean, she can't even get unemployment right now.

Honey, you don't need unemployment.

You need a job.

She's going to work this week.

This week, there's

what city are you in in Texas?

In Dennison, it's north of Dallas.

Yeah.

So, I mean, you can't find a server job in Dallas, freaking Texas?

Something wrong, man.

I mean, seriously.

So, Ural's problem is income, mathematically.

You don't make much, and one of you isn't doing anything.

And,

you know, on the heels of I just spent $25,000 on a wedding.

So the answer, you know,

the

punishment for that is a lot of hard work for that dumb decision.

Buying a wedding you couldn't afford.

Okay.

And so you get your payback is hard work.

And both of you need to be working 50, 60 hours a week right now.

Quit going out to eat, quit partying, turn off freaking Netflix and work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work.

That's where money comes from.

The old Dave quote has never applied more.

The only time you should be seeing the inside of a restaurant is if you're working there.

This one applies.

That one actually works really well with this particular call.

Yeah.

Okay.

So, yeah.

And this is very, very, very doable, but it all has to do with ambition, motivation.

And so when you tell me I'm not academically inclined, okay,

then let's get in the trades.

Let's get in something that you can do if you don't want to do academics.

That's fine.

But I'm hearing I'm not very ambitious and don't like to work much.

That's what what I heard when she said that.

Now, I may be being too hard on her, but I do know the facts are that it's been two months and she ain't got a job.

You know how long I would go without a job?

About a minute and a half.

You know, go down to Home Depot and buy a leaf blower.

Rich people are afraid of leaves.

They will pay you to blow leaves.

You know, I mean,

there is no way that I'm going to be unemployed more than about 45 seconds.

I have the ability to make money, and you you do too.

So that's,

this is the equation.

So my grandmother used to say it's a great place to go when you're broke, to work.

And so that's what we're doing here.

And I know you're newlyweds, and I know this is fun.

I know you're 21, but you're not children anymore.

Now we're acting like adults, and we're doing adult games, and we get adult prizes, and $25,000 worth of credit card debt for the wedding.

You don't have any choices.

You're working.

So that's, you know, I'm not trying to be mean to you, but I don't want to be unclear either.

I want to love you enough to tell you the truth.

If you were my kid, this is exactly what I'd be telling you.

It's a really simple equation.

And then once you're working and making money all the time, then start thinking about how I can have a career where I make a lot of money because I specialize in something.

I learn something.

I do a craft.

I

do take a class, a certification or whatever, and go be whatever that is.

But the first step is survival.

Then we self-actualize.

And when I was exactly his age, making about exactly the same money, I had three extra side hustles on top of that to try to clear the debt, get myself to some good financial footing.

So both of you are going to be working a whole lot for a short season.

We're not talking five years.

You can clean this up at the same time.

Not the rest of your life, but you do have to get this in a zone and

this focused intensity is needed right here.

And,

you know, it's real easy to get caught up in what your friends are doing or the family's doing or everybody's got an opinion.

No, go to work.

Just get up, leave the cave, kill something, and drag it home.

It is that simple.

And that's exactly what both of you need.

And you need an extra job, Michael.

And if you want some ideas, you can jump on ramseysolutions.com slash side hustle.

We've got a quiz there.

I would do that on top of your full-time jobs that you're going to have.

That's what will get you there.

You knock it out in two years.

You make 80 grand.

You can throw 25 grand a year at this debt.

It's gone in two years.

That's the math.

But you got to get that income up.

Well, I mean, they're used to living on nothing, so really could just probably do it in about a year if you want to.

Go crazy.

Keep your expenses real low.

Get the income real high.

And rice, rice, and beans.

You don't really need any hobbies or anything because you're just going to be working.

You got no one to impress.

Yeah.

You don't need Netflix.

You can't got time to watch it.

You're going to be, if you're not sleeping, you're going to be working.

And that is the equation.

And again, this is two years, and then you get your career jive, and the two of you figure out what you're going to do with your lives, and we move into that.

But

yeah, let's go be somebody, dude.

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Well, buying or selling a house is a big deal, and there's a lot of drama out there about real estate right now.

When you're in the middle of trauma or drama, let me help you with something.

Dr.

John Deloney says facts are your friends.

You can cut through all the opinions of your broke-in-laws.

You can cut through all the opinions of people on TikTok and Instagram with actual facts.

And then, based on facts, you make good, wise decisions, not based on hyperbole and and drama.

So we'll help you with that.

We have facts, ma'am, just the facts, on the U.S.

housing market trends.

And you can get them at ramseysolutions.com slash market.

And you can keep up with what the median house prices are really doing, what number of listings are out there for real, and what interest rates are for real.

Ramseysolutions.com slash market.

Or you can click the notes or click in the show notes and drop right straight into it.

Madeline is in Virginia.

Hi, Madeline.

How are you?

Hi, I'm doing okay.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

Yes, so about five months ago in March,

my husband and our six-year-old son went on fishing at the pier near our home, just like a regular time.

And unfortunately, this time they did not make it back home.

My baby fell off the pier while fishing, catching a fish.

My husband went after him, and the river conditions just took them.

Oh, my God.

I'm so sorry.

Thank you.

So I'm a widow.

My husband was only 37.

I was 36.

My birthday passed in June, and we have another

son who just turned three on Friday.

And as you can probably imagine, I'm just lost.

I can imagine.

I'm so sorry.

Thank you.

That's terrible.

Yeah.

So I don't want to hold you guys up too long.

I know you have other colors, but

yeah, I just don't know what to do financially.

And

I want to make wise decisions.

I want to get myself some help because every day I just want to crawl in a hole.

But

our youngest baby does not let me.

He gets me on the bed.

Thank you, he was our blessing from God there

to just help me keep going even when I just don't feel up to it.

So,

you know, losing my husband, there's a lot of logistics and stuff like that that I am still working through.

I haven't even really been able to work on my grief like I would like to.

But yeah, so I was a stay-at-home mom.

Essentially, we have a business and my husband bought an educator.

And

I'm now with him.

Our business, the main thing that we offer is education support.

My husband's a special education teacher and also basketball training.

We kind of did both under the business, but he was you know the primary person on it.

So, there's not really a business, yeah, there's not really a business, it was a side hustle, and because it's not something you can sell, right?

Um, it's possible, I never sat down to go over that, but I would say the business kind of helped me with in like bring an income like that I was missing from being at home.

So, it brought in a pretty decent income.

I'll

but without him there to do it, do you have to do it?

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

I have someone that's been helping me, but I'm just mentally in a space where I can't even like market.

I can't do the things I need to do to keep the business afloat.

Sometimes I think I can, and then I just

think clearly right now.

How have you survived the last five months covering the bills?

Just,

you know, some monies that we have with him being an educator, they did pay out a prorated amount of the rest of his

salary.

You guys have any debt from what I hear?

Yes, we do have debt.

So the house

is in at the mortgage is his name.

I'm on the D.

It doesn't matter.

You get the house.

That doesn't matter.

The mortgage company won't do a thing.

You just have to pay the mortgage, is all.

How much is the monthly mortgage?

So it's $3,530 roughly a month.

And then we do have a HELOC.

Is it an 8.5%?

It was roughly $5.50,000 to $6.50 per month.

So $4,000.

We're $2,125,000.

$4,000.

Yeah, we're a little over $41,000.

What was your household income?

Before

he passed, we were

because of the business fluctuating.

We were close to $200,000 to a little over $200,000.

All right.

So the business was making a lot of money then.

Okay.

It was making good money.

It fluctuated with me being home.

We had our youngest.

I had him in 2022.

Do you have the ability to operate this business in some way long term?

That is my goal.

I did have someone step in to help another friend who's an educator, and I've kind of been outsourcing our clients, but you know, they were so tied to my husband.

He was just an amazing man and teacher.

And

yeah, so

she's trying to help me, but I have to do my part too, which has been hard.

Yeah.

And I have to bring in new business.

That was what I did for the business.

I brought in the business.

And my husband, this past year, he had interesting.

That answers my question.

Did you have life insurance?

Yes, we did have life insurance.

How much?

So between the life insurance and some gifts, because some neighbors did a GOF funding for us, it's roughly $500,000.

Good news.

Okay.

And how much do you owe in your home?

$588,000.

Okay.

$5.85,000, about less.

And on the HELOC, about $73,000.

So here's

what we're going to try to do.

I always recommend if we can figure out a way for you to eat, that you don't do any big decisions for six months.

It takes that long to breathe again.

It's been five, but I mean, and it's still really raw, okay?

But the waves of grief catch you off balance.

You don't know when they're going to hit.

And, you know, there's some days, like you said, you don't feel like getting out of bed, but you have to.

You got a three-year-old.

You got a business.

And so these are two things that are

dragging you out.

So

yeah,

so number one goal for long-term sustainability for you and the three-year-old is for you to work your way through this grief.

And that's probably going to require you spend some time sitting with someone.

And it's also going to require that you keep a really good community around you of people that you can call and just cry with.

And that can be people at your church, your pastor.

It could be these neighbors that stepped up to help you.

And that is not, there's no shame in that.

And Dr.

Deloney always says that some of the research they have on grieving says grief demands a witness.

It is most effectively done in community, not alone.

And so I want you to plug in and work on you because you're actually the secret sauce of your future,

not any of this other stuff.

And then as you're doing that, what I want you to do is give that church, and are you in a good church there?

Yeah, actually, the Sunday before the accident, my husband completed his membership class at the church we've been attending.

Perfect.

Okay.

So that church's job

is to take care of widows and orphans.

It's in the book.

Yeah.

Okay.

That's their job.

Let them do their job by asking for community, asking for support.

I don't think you need any money.

I think you're okay.

Okay.

Well, can I can I can I speak to that just a sec?

Sure.

I don't want to, obviously, I mean, it's a good amount.

Thank God this was, but we gave us this blessing.

I know we can't live off of it, and this is double grief for me.

This is, you know, leaving my child and my husband at the same time.

I just don't know mentally where I'm going to be.

I don't want to make the wrong decision.

I don't want you to either.

I don't want you to make no decision.

I want you to take out just enough to barely eat and barely pay the house payment and keep this business running as best you can and go through the healing process.

Give yourself some room, girl.

You deserve it.

This is a tragedy.

It's a trauma.

Okay.

It's normal human behavior to hurt in this.

And here's what we're going to do.

Okay.

I'm going to line you up.

Kelly's going to pick up and we're going to line you up with a Ramsey coach and they'll coordinate with your church.

And it's our gift.

It's not going to cost you a thing.

And they're going to walk you through the financial stuff of exactly what to do.

But we've got to work through the grief process and you've got to give yourself the grace to do that.

You deserve it.

You've been through the most horrible thing imaginable.

I'm so sorry.

You hang on, kiddo.

We're going to walk with you.

Thanks for being with us, America.

We're glad you're here.

If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feeling like you can't get ahead, join one of our free every dollar trainings.

There are new trainings every week this month, and they're all hosted by one of the Ramsey personalities.

George, when's your next next one?

I believe it's next week.

There's always another one around the corner and they've been so fun.

The attendance has been awesome and the live QA is my favorite part of course, getting to interact with the people.

Yep, live QA.

It's free.

We're going to show you how to stick to a budget and you're going to find on average $9,560 worth of margin.

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That's what we see.

So sign up for free.

Did we mention that this is free?

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And if you do it quickly, you might be in George's group next week.

Sign up for free at ramsellsolutions.com slash webinar.

All right, Cassidy is in Canada.

Hi, Cassidy.

How are you?

I'm good.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

So I have a question about

work and my finances.

So I have an undergraduate degree in nursing that took four years, a medical degree that took four years, and now I'm in residency.

I'm two years through my residency.

I have three years ago.

When I finished medical school, I had a total, including my mortgage, of $484,000 of debt.

How much of that is mortgage and how much of that's med school?

$160,000 was mortgage and $300,000 was student loans.

And then I had $20,000 in car loan.

So that was two years ago.

When I started residency, I wanted to start paying down my debt.

quickly, so I renewed a nursing license.

So now I work

about my maximum number of hours I can legally work a week as a resident is 90.

And then I pick up hours as a nurse besides that.

And I've been doing well with the debt, I think.

I've saved up my $1,000 for Baby Step One, and now I'm down from a total of $484,000 of debt to $403,000 of debt.

Way to go.

Wow.

Thank you.

That's impressive.

So what are you making in the residency?

What are you getting paid?

50?

I bring home $48,000

a year.

And good.

And the side gig on nursing, what is it producing?

I work, you know, it depends on how busy I am as a resident, but somewhere between

$700 to $1,500 every two weeks,

depending on how many shifts I can get.

Okay.

So $1,500 to $3,000 a month.

So,

you know, $30,000 on top of your $50,000.

So you're probably averaging about $80,000.

Okay.

And you paid down.

Wow, you are really killing it.

You are working like a maniac, girl.

I'm proud of you.

Well, thank you.

That's where my question comes in.

So that might be a little bit of the issue, or maybe not.

So I was a previously very healthy person.

In the first two years of residency, I've actually been off with pneumonia a couple times in the last six months.

And, you know, I don't think doctors are great with money.

So I don't necessarily heed their advice.

But a number of them have been saying, you know, you should slow down.

You shouldn't work so much.

We think it's kind of dragging you out a little bit.

And you're going to pay it all off when you finish residency in three years anyways.

But I don't really know if that's true.

It is true.

And so here's the thing.

If you kill the goose that's laying the golden eggs, you,

then it's kind of,

you know, you're not, what you're entering into is not sustainable.

In other words, if you are truly burning yourself up to the point that it's affecting your health, then you do need to dial it back.

And you're the best person to decide if that's really the cause of all that.

It sounds like it could be because your number of hours is enormous.

And I believe in hard work.

I'm the guy yelling at everybody to go hard work, right?

But I mean,

you're a beast, girl.

I mean, it's amazing.

You're like sprinting and it's a marathon.

And so you've got a ways to go.

You do really believe that it is affecting your health, don't you?

I don't know.

I try not to think about it too much.

I'm not talking about emotionally.

I'm talking about intellectually.

You're a freaking doctor.

Tell me, Doc,

is this girl burning herself up and is it causing her to get pneumonia because of her fatigue level?

Perhaps.

Okay.

Yes.

Yeah, I think perhaps is a fair answer.

I'm not a doc, but that would be my answer.

So, yeah, I think I'm going to dial it back far enough that I quit having fatigue-based health problems.

So, would you cutting back-I don't know that that's all the way back to residency, but um, right, you know, you just get, you know, you need to shave 10, 15, 20% off of this thing on the nursing side.

And if that slows down, you're get out of debt plan.

And you're not going to make it out of debt before you finish residency anyway.

No,

no matter what.

No matter whether you stay what you're doing or whether you dial it back.

So it's just a matter of how much is going to be there when you finish.

That's the only question.

So in that sense, the docs are correct.

I agree.

Don't take financial advice from doctors.

The only thing worse is football players.

God imagine money, right?

So it's like, but the

great at spending it.

Yeah.

So yeah,

but I do think you know your body and you know the medical charts and some of the stuff you're getting is fatigue-based.

You're just burning up every piece of protein in your body and there's nothing left to fight anything.

Does that sound right?

Yeah, it does, yeah.

Yeah,

I want you to dial back.

I'm with you.

And, you know, so in other words, you got, if you end up with $50,000 more to deal with after residency, but you retain your health, we're going to call that a win.

Okay.

All right.

And you're not going further into debt, right?

You're able to cover all of your bills and make minimum payments on the debts with your residency take-home pay?

Yes.

The interest on the debt is quite high, but I am able to pay the interest.

And then, like, I've, you know, I've knocked it back.

Yeah, but in terms of you're not, he's saying you're not borrowing money for student loans.

No, I am not.

That game's on.

You're not borrowing money to live either.

We're off the other side of this, yeah.

No,

when I finished medical school, I stopped.

How old are you?

I'm 27.

Wow.

Okay.

Well,

when you're 37, you're going to look back and say this was worth it because you paid a price to win and you're winning.

Okay.

But let's do it in a way that you survive it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

All the signs indicate that you're going to pay off this debt very aggressively once you're out of residency.

And so to Dave's point, delaying it by a tiny bit so that you survive it, I would be doing that.

That's a good trade-off.

Yeah, I think it is.

And I think the docs were giving you good advice in that method.

But not kick the whole can down the road, but kick a smaller can down the road

than you were going to.

And so, yeah, there's nothing wrong with that at all because you are going to get there.

And when you come out of this, your income is going to be substantial.

And you will immediately, you probably get a good signing bonus now, too, which will knock off a bunch of this as well.

I'd hire her.

She's sharp.

Yeah, for sure.

For sure.

Well, not only is she sharp, she's not afraid of work.

Hello.

And that seems to be a thing.

All right.

Frank is with us.

Frank's in Florida.

How are you, Frank?

I'm doing great.

How are you, Dave?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

Hey, Dave.

So I got a question.

I've been considering calling you for about six months on.

I'm sure you're very familiar with the industry that we do.

My question to you is, how do you decide if you should switch out of a high-paying job that your heart isn't really fully in or don't morally agree with all the way.

So, specifically, the company I'm with now, we do hard money loans for real estate investors, and we also do rental loans and things like that.

I've been in it now for about going on two years now, and I just don't know how to fully feel about it and if I should possibly switch out, but I also don't want to give up the money that's in it because there is really good money in it.

Yeah.

Well, I mean,

there's good money in a lot of things with your skill set, and your skill set is project management, processing, and sales.

Correct.

And you can make a lot of money with that skill set and other things.

And so rather than hypothetically discussing this or philosophically discussing it, why don't you look for something?

Okay.

And go find something.

And when you find something, then the decision starts to be easy.

I mean, let's say you had a job, another job lined up that you did not have any moral conflicts with and made the same money.

You you'd be gone and you wouldn't even have called me.

Yeah,

that would be true as well.

What are you making?

So I'm on track this year to do about 80 to 100,000, being my second year in it.

I mean, last year it was only about 40,000.

Okay.

So there's the fallacy.

The fallacy is I can't make 80 to 100,000 doing a different type of work.

And we know that's not the case.

So to Dave's point, let's go start searching.

The skill set is what's going to carry you there.

It's not the actual industry itself.

What you have learned to do is transferable into other things.

If you can sell, honey, you can do almost anything.

Salespeople are the highest paid profession in America today.

Higher than programmers, higher than CEOs.

Salespeople are the highest paid.

Our question of the day for the Ramsey Show is brought to you by YReFi.

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Today's question comes from Carly in Alaska.

Showing dogs is my passion and expensive hobby.

I have been leaning toward getting a new show dog, but I'm not sure if I should because of my financial goals.

I'm debt-free, except for my house.

I have a generous emergency fund, and I'm investing 15% of my income.

I want to pay my house off in five years and believe I can do it if I'm very aggressive.

I'm afraid getting a new showdog will derail my financial goals, but at the same time, I want to enjoy my life.

I know at this point I'm supposed to be intentional instead of intense, but having a paid-off house when I turn 50 sounds pretty amazing.

How do I balance achieving my financial goals versus enjoying my life?

Wow,

not on my bingo card.

Yeah,

the problem is I don't know from this what the show dog costs.

I mean, is the showdog 20 grand?

If so, yeah, you got a problem.

If the show goes $2,000, then you shouldn't have even written this email.

You should have just bought the dog.

The ratios help.

Yeah, I mean, it's like, what is ridiculous?

Because if it's so big that it's, you know, it's going to take you 10 years to pay off your house instead of five years, that's an expensive freaking dog.

But if it's five and a half years versus five, okay.

Yeah, or whatever.

I don't know.

I'm sure it's not $2,000, and I hope it's not 20.

Should be somewhere in between.

But it depends on what kind of show dog we have in Alaska.

Sled dog showdog?

I'm very curious.

But I will say this, there will be another showdog available five years from now when you're dead-free completely with a paid-for house.

Yeah, so our

instruction, once you're out of debt, except the home, and you have your emergency fund, which is where she is, and she's working baby steps, what we call four, five, and six.

Four is 15% of your income going into retirement.

She's doing that.

Five is kids' college, doesn't come up here.

Six is pay off the house early.

So, and when you're in the first three baby steps getting out of debt, you're supposed to be very intense, work like a crazy person, no vacation, no eating out, complete scorched earth lifestyle.

Get your butt out of debt.

When you get the emergency fund, you get to her stage, you move from intense to intentional.

And intentional just says the facts should inform what you want to do.

So what I would do is say,

because we don't have the number here, you and I don't, George.

But if I were in her shoes, I would say being intentional looks like this.

15% is going into my retirement.

She didn't discuss losing that, which is perfect.

The only thing is, how much

delay is there going to be?

in paying off my house

because of the cost of the dog.

And that's a math thing.

You can look at it.

It's not emotional at all.

The show dog purchase is emotional because you're into it, obviously.

But the actual math, you go, okay, the cost of the dog is this, and that's going to delay

my paying off the house by one month, two months, three months, eight months, a year.

At what point does the dog inflict too much pain on the paying off the house?

Because right now, I think she's just got this jumbled up in her head that anything she does.

That's not paying off the mortgage is excessive and crazy.

And that's not true.

Exactly.

At this stage, you're intentional.

You buy a couch, you go on a trip, you upgrade your car, you buy the showdog.

But again, if the show dog's 50 grand or something, no, you're not in a position to do that.

What I would do is just create a sinking fund, and as I have extra above and beyond my mortgage payoff goal, I'll throw the money in there.

And that becomes my showdog fund.

And once I have enough.

Yeah.

Or again, if it's a small amount, quit making it emotional.

Look at the math.

You go, I get it.

The math will tell you to do it right now.

And just go,

it's going going to cost me a half a month.

Well, so what?

I mean, you get the dog, right?

That's what you do here.

So that's fun.

It's very interesting.

I can't think,

I cannot read this email without thinking about Best in Show.

Oh, my goodness, yes.

Which I think a French Bulldog won last year.

No way.

I don't know.

I think.

I remember seeing it.

I did own a retired show dog, though.

My first pug that I had was a retired.

Guess how old this pug was?

Two.

Out of the game.

He's like a pro athlete.

It's like NFL for this pug.

He got his blue ribbon and he's done.

Exactly.

So I had a retired show dog.

His name was Elvis.

With a snoring problem.

Yeah, 100%.

Those flat faces.

100% of pugs.

So what about this dog is like a championship winning dog?

Yeah.

But it gave me hope that I could also be a winner one day.

If that little

schnitzel floof could get a ribbon, I was like, I should be able to get something.

I can't get a ribbon.

If that guy can do it, I can do it.

Traces in Columbus, Ohio.

Hey, Trace, what's up?

Hey, Dave, how are you?

Better than I deserve.

How can I help?

So I've got a question.

I have a 2018 Kia that has 104,000 miles and I owe $8,500.

Yeah.

I owe $8,500 on it, but I have it in the shop bi-monthly for hundreds of dollars to get stuff fixed.

So my question is, do I stick with the loan, pay it off, and just deal with all the maintenance?

Or do I go get a loan for $20,000 for a Toyota 4Runner?

Wow, that escalated quickly.

We went from hundreds of dollars to tens of thousands of dollars.

To going deeper into debt.

So, okay, let's pretend that your Kia is a piece of crap.

It wouldn't be hard to pretend.

Okay.

Okay.

Yeah, no.

And it's worth what?

What's it worth today?

It's about $75,000 on Kelly Blue Book.

Okay.

So maybe you can get out of this thing close to whole even, right?

Sure.

Yes, sir.

What about doing that says $20,000 Toyota?

Nothing in this sentence makes sense.

Why not get a reliable $10,000 car and stay about even and then get that car paid off?

Yeah, I mean, that's a good point.

My whole reasoning was if I could get something $10,000, you know, more than what I have right now on already owing it.

You think that's the only way you get a reliable car?

No, it's not.

The way you get a reliable car is you buy a reliable car.

Yes, sir.

You buy a $10,000 Camry,

a $10,000 Acura,

and you'll be just Honda Accord.

You'll be just fine.

Old $10,000 Lexus, for that matter.

You'll be just fine until you get it paid off.

We're not going to drive this thing for five years.

We're going to drive it for five or ten months while you get paid off.

What are you making?

I make $30,000 a year.

Yeah.

You don't need a $20,000 car anyway.

You have too much money tied up in things going down in value.

You have other debts.

You don't make enough money to drive a $20,000 car.

I do not have any other debt.

I don't care.

You make $30,000.

You don't need $20,000 going the wrong way.

Sure.

Because it goes down in value like a rock.

That's where Chevy gets that.

Like a rock.

I don't even know Kia's tagline.

Oh, it's like.

I'm sure it's in a foreign language, but yeah.

And it says crappy car.

But yeah.

Yeah, I'm with you.

I'm getting rid of the car, but I'm going to break even.

I'm not going to use this as an excuse to get into a mess.

That's the bottom line.

And you're saying, oh, I'm spending $200.

I need to go spend $20,000.

No, you just keep spending the $200,000.

You'll still come out way ahead mathematically.

It's a pain in the butt.

But if the car really is doing this at some point it just gets to be so frustrating that you need to do something i'm okay with that but find a reliable and i just named some that you can drive for two three hundred thousand miles and we're not buying anything with sex appeal here this is reliable we're just trying to get to work

a to b without spending 200 bucks every other month and so and you can do a pre-purchase inspection it's going to cost you a hundred hundred fifty bucks with a respected mechanic in your area and that'll let you know you're not buying a lemon so don't just go buy any car and then hope.

Just do the research, the make, model, the year,

know the issues, know the recalls, get it inspected by a mechanic, and that way you know what you're getting into next time.

A real mechanic, not AI.

Just as a side note.

A real one.

Were there fake ones out there?

Well, there's artificial intelligence analysis.

Oh, gosh.

And we don't need any analysis of a used car by something that's artificial.

I need like a real person.

Artificial means not real, by the way.

That's like not real sugar sucks.

Yeah, let me help you with that.

So, artificial sweetener.

No, thanks.

Dave needs the real stuff.

Yeah, I need real intelligence, not artificial intelligence.

There you go.

We've all done dumb things with money.

I've done them with zeros on the end.

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

George Camill, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author and host of the George Camill Show, is my co-host today.

Amy's in Denver.

Hi, Amy.

How are you?

Hi, Dave.

Good.

And hi, George.

And thank you both for the program and the show.

I really, really enjoy it.

And you're doing great things.

So thank you.

So I'm relatively relatively new to following your program and I've really only been listening I haven't read any of the books or anything admittedly so sorry

plan to but

I'm just about working on completing baby step number three

but my question is the the should the six-month emergency fund include retirement and investing and giving or should it just be for survival expenses?

Oh, what number?

Times six or times three?

Yeah, just survival expenses.

Just survival expenses.

Let's pretend the emergency was you lost your job and you didn't have an income.

Well, you would stop retirement and you would stop generosity in the middle of that or largely stop it.

And so,

you know, you're not going to use savings to fund those things.

You're going to use savings to pay the house payment, eat, keep the lights on, that kind of stuff.

Right.

Okay, awesome.

Then, hey, I just finished baby step number three on this call.

That was easy.

Awesome.

I like a redefinition.

That's good.

Did you go with three or six months or somewhere in between?

Six.

I did six.

Good.

Love it.

You can't go wrong with that.

No one's ever complained.

They went, man, I just have so much savings.

It's excellent.

So

how much is in that account now?

So right now I have 18,000,

let's see, 18,828

in that account.

That's pretty precise.

Okay.

Yeah, let's finish it.

I'd take it up to 20 and then I'd quit.

Yeah.

Dave likes round, even numbers.

Yeah, that way I can remember what it is.

Yeah.

Because I've already forgotten the $18,000 number.

So, yeah, I would.

Yeah, you'll knock that out within the next month.

Yeah, yeah.

Just finish that up and then you know, I got 20 grand for things go sideways.

I got 20 grand.

And that gives you a level of peace.

Just like when you got all your debts paid off, you had a level of peace.

Now you're starting to get financial peace, two words that don't go together, like airline service.

So there you go.

Open phones here at triple eight eight two five two two five.

Dakota is in Nashville.

Hey, Dakota, what's up?

Hey, how are you doing?

Better than I deserve.

How can we help?

So I just had a question.

I bought 50 acres in Shelbyville towards the end of 2023, which I know probably was not a good time to buy anything, but

from my perspective, I thought it was a reasonable price for the amount of land.

I got it for $320.

And I've got that down to $228.

And I've done water out there and electric.

And I just, my interest rate is like 8.5.

So my monthly payments just like break my heart to see the small amount that's actually going to my loan.

And I didn't know if maybe with building something out there and doing a mortgage loan, do you think I could get a better rate?

I mean, I'm still working on baby step number two, getting three months or more worth of, you know, bills in my savings.

But I just, I don't know.

It's overwhelming to me.

And I just don't know what the best thing to do is.

Okay.

So you went $300,000 in debt to buy land as an investment while you still have other debt.

I do not have any other debt.

Mr.

Carson.

I thought you said you were in Baby Step 2.

Well, so no, no, no.

Sorry.

Debt is paid off.

I've got $1,000 as an emergency savings, and then I'm working on, I thought, I'm sorry.

I'm maybe analyzing my baby's text amazingly.

I thought number two was getting months' worth of, you know, three months' worth of bills.

No,

are you debt-free other than this land, or do you have a house?

Nope, no home.

I live with my parents still.

What was the goal of getting this land?

What was the vision?

I have cows and horses, and I would like to live out there eventually, but there's no rush.

My mother's health is not great, so it benefits everyone, me being home right now, I think.

But it's just me being

I'm 28.

I'll be 29 next month.

Okay.

All right.

Well, I'm trying to think

how to position this within a framework that it makes sense.

No, I would not tell a 28-year-old to go buy a $300,000 piece of raw ground and put water and electric on it as an investment and go $300,000 in debt to do it.

No, I would never tell you to do that, ever.

Okay.

Okay.

But

not to get a cow.

It's an expensive cow.

No, you're exactly right.

You're exactly right.

Yes, sir.

So the

but

what do you make a year?

Last year I made about 98, and I think the year before that was like 104.

What do you do?

I'm self-employed.

I'm a mobile dog groomer.

Wow.

Okay.

You are an animal girl.

I think.

Yeah, I think, yeah.

Hmm.

The only way this makes sense is for you to put a house house in it and move on it and get your rate down.

What you ask is correct.

Your question is proper.

It's a really good question you're asking.

So you get out of the 8% world and you get into the 5.5%, 5.25% world on a 15-year fixed rate, and you put your little house on there of some kind.

Doesn't have to be fancy, but let's get something on there.

And get started.

And here's the thing.

It's your personal residence from a standpoint of getting the mortgage.

But if you only sleep there three nights a week, that's not a big deal.

Okay.

Because you're four nights a week with mom.

Right.

At least then we can put this in the bucket of Baby Step Six and it becomes your home.

You owe 300 grand on it.

That's acceptable in your situation.

Okay.

If we leave it in the bucket of I have this investment real estate I'm developing in Shelbyville, Tennessee.

No, you got to sell that.

That don't make any sense at all.

Right.

No, you're right.

I get it.

It was totally a personal thing and it may not have been a smart move um no it wasn't it was uh it was way out of control it was somewhat panic driven um i'm not even sure you got that great a deal but um probably not yeah it's okay it's okay it's beautiful down through there i drive down through there all the time i love shelve

but um and that's how you say it it's not shelbyville unless you're unless you're a yankee it's shovel

but yeah so one syllable

but that yeah that that i i yeah i think that's the only way this makes sense is we're going to convert it to which you had kind of in the back of your mind as a plan.

That's the question you asked.

So I'm going with your question.

I think that's the way to do it.

Nothing's on fire.

I know it's a high interest rate, but you still have the emergency fund to work through.

You need to have some money for this house to happen.

And so I wouldn't rush any of this.

Yeah, you could flip the loan to a construction loan and build the house on out, a modest home on it.

And I think you can afford it.

I'm not positive.

I'd crunch the numbers on that because we're going to add a house to the loan on top of the land loan.

Depends on what we're going to spend.

So I wouldn't go crazy.

Like Dave said, just do something as simple as possible right now.

You can always upgrade and add to it later.

Yeah.

Maybe do

an architectural plan that allows for additions the way it's designed.

And you just build the first section to live in.

And you can turn it.

I'm trying to turn it into a personal residence.

That way you get to keep it.

Otherwise, I think you need to sell it.

That's what it comes down to.

So yeah, your question's accurate.

Interesting.

And Dave loves land more than anyone I know.

I like dirt.

I'm a dirt boy, for sure.

Sometimes you just push it around.

Get your little truck out there, and

I've seen you out there.

I'm like, what is Dave doing?

No, he's just pushing dirt around.

Yeah.

Like a seven-year-old who grew up.

No, I actually had a little project I was working on.

George, come on, give me a break.

If you're 65 and you got a little bulldozer, you got to drive it.

There's worse hobbies to have.

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Man, my day just got considerably better, George.

George, I like you, but I don't like you nearly like I like this guy.

This guy is one of my favorite people on the entire planet, and a whole bunch of other people are as well.

The one and only Pastor Max Lakato has stopped in again to hang out with us.

We've done this a couple of times because you write a book every year.

We go way back every year.

And every year I get the pleasure of helping you do that, and that's an excuse for you and me to hang out a little bit.

We go several offices back, it seems.

Several studios.

Seventh studio we promoted Max Lakato's books in.

That's a privilege.

It's a real privilege.

Well, really.

And ours, too.

If you don't know who Pastor Max Lakato is, he's one of the best-selling authors in the world,

over 100 million products in print, unbelievable numbers,

and an incredible writer.

He's dubbed America's pastor by Christianity today and the best preacher in America by Reader's Digest.

And he is definitely all of that.

Oak Hills Church down in San Antonio.

I've had the honor of speaking there several times with him.

He's allowed me to be there.

And so, Max Lakato, this newest book is Tame Your Thoughts: Three Tools to Renew Your Mind and Transform Your Life.

When I was reading over this, I was blown away when you had done the numbers on

the amount of thoughts that we have.

Stunning.

70,000 thoughts a day.

70,000 thoughts.

And according to the Cleveland Clinic, four out of five of those are either negative or self-critical.

That's stunning.

Yeah.

We can go nasty to ourselves.

We do.

We're our own worst enemy, and learning to liberate ourselves from that is absolutely essential.

So, what got you going on this subject?

Some of these same statistics, Dave.

When I read especially about our adolescents in this day and age, 42% say they live under a cloud of anxiety or depression.

22% of adolescents have contemplated suicide in the six months prior to the survey.

We grown-ups don't fare much better.

About two out of five of us live with a constant state of anxiety that needs some type of help or assistance.

And so this discussion about a mental health crisis is real, and I wanted to try to tackle it from a spiritual and scriptural standpoint.

Yeah.

It's a complicated subject,

but as scripture often does, it guides us into a

very, it puts the cookies on a shelf where we can reach it to a complicated subject, a fairly clean answer that's easy to understand but hard to do.

Yeah, because like a lot of scripture, you know, love your neighbor.

Oh, yeah, that's that.

Yeah, I got it, but yeah, I got to do that now.

Yeah, that's hard.

Yeah, so

without all the advice that's out there and how this is being complicated, how'd you land on these three tools, you said, the three tools to renew your mind and transform your life?

Yeah, this is just out of pastoral work.

You know, I've been ordained since 79, and over the years I've tried to hone, because I see this so often, as you do, both of you do.

You see that our behavior is the result of belief.

You know, if you want to change your behavior, you change your belief.

You don't deal first with the behavior.

You've got to, what's the frame of reference or the worldview that you're coming at?

And I've realized that if we can encourage people to, number one, practice picky thinking, you know, just because you have a thought, you don't have to think it.

Take that thought captive is the way the scripture says.

And number two,

identify your UFOs, the untruth that leads to a false narrative, that leads to an overreaction.

That's the word.

You call the drama queen.

Yeah.

When there's an overreaction, it's because somewhere back upstream, there's an untruth that's taken root.

And then tool number three is uproot and replant.

When you discover those untruths, you got to get, they're weeds in the garden, and you've got to take them seriously.

You've got to uproot.

It's not enough to pull them out.

You've got to replant and you replant with truth out of Scripture.

Wow.

You know, I've

observed this over these decades, and you have too, that when someone's life is intersected by the gospel and they start to understand truth, and then they compare that to the dysfunction that they maybe came out of.

Absolutely.

And they go, okay, I've got to uproot, and I have to have a new set of

and

it literally, you get to watch someone's life be transformed, but also their entire legacy, their entire family tree is shifted because of their intersection with truth.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

It's so powerful.

It's powerful.

As you were sharing those, I kept thinking, oh, that's like what Dave has done for 30 years on the radio.

Because we sell hope here.

So how would if you were on a call with us and someone called in and they were overwhelmed with their finances,

how do these tools apply?

Let's take UFO into the world of finances.

UFO untruth leads to a false narrative that leads to an overreaction.

The untruth is I'm only as valuable as I appear.

Okay?

So I'm going to dress to the nines.

I'm going to do everything to my body I can so I can be valuable.

Well, that's a lie.

That's the untruth.

That would lead then to a false narrative.

The reason that I need a job, the reason that I need a credit card, the reason that I need money is so I can accumulate, so I can have more stuff because my stuff

translates into value.

Well, then that leads into overreaction, debt, problems,

comparison, competition, insecurity.

And so 25-year-old Pastor Max, when I was ordained,

I would have dealt out here with the overreaction.

Well, just quit spending so much or quit buying so much or you're materialistic.

Or these days I would say, wait, there's something that they've believed back upstream.

If we can figure out what that value system dysfunction is, I think we can deal with the overreaction.

And that's the replacing it with the true.

Absolutely.

Larry Briquette used to say financial problems aren't the problem, they're the symptom.

There you have it.

And that's true of a lot of problems.

A lot of problems that we see.

They're not the marital problem isn't the problem.

It's a symptom.

It's a constant.

You go upstream, you find selfishness, or you go upstream, you find

whatever.

But this actual argument is not the deal.

Absolutely.

There's something up there behind it, and get behind it.

And you can flip it on its head.

Okay, let's take the truth, and that is I'm a child of God.

I'm born of God, I'm destined to spend forever with God.

I may not be the best-looking guy in the world, but who cares, man?

I've got

more than I deserve, right?

And that leads then to a healthy narrative of life.

I'm put here for a purpose, with a purpose, to make a big deal out of God.

Okay?

That leads into a right reaction.

Who can I serve today?

How can can I be a good person today?

I'm going to honor the Lord today.

So it's a whole different mindset.

But we deal with this problem of toxic thoughts by going back to the beginning.

You can apply those same tools to any type of thoughts, anxiety, lust, greed, bitterness, anger.

But you take those three tools and put them to use and whatever your toxic thought pattern is, and I think you make progress.

Yeah.

Some of these

people that live in your head need an eviction notice.

They're living there rent-free.

They're living there rent-free.

That's right.

Yeah.

Tame Your Thoughts, Three Tools to Renew Your Mind and Transform Your Life.

The one and only Max Lakato, multiple New York Times best-selling author.

And I've read almost everything he's written, and it's a lot.

And all the way back to maybe Grip of Grace.

It had to be before that.

It was in the early 90s.

I was reading way back there.

I remember you and I having lunch the first time in San Antonio, and I was such a fanboy.

I was just gagat.

I couldn't hardly eat my lunch.

I got to have lunch with Mexicato.

What was really weird is I called him and he returned my call.

That was really weird.

Well you bought lunch.

Well there's that.

A little generosity goes a long way.

So

last thoughts on thoughts.

This is such a powerful thing because it all begins there.

It does.

It does.

You want to have a better life tomorrow?

Take inventory of your thoughts today.

We all have toxic thought patterns.

We do.

We all have a proclivity towards some type of quicksand of thoughts.

So identify yours.

Ask the Lord to help you.

Don't be conformed to the world, the scripture says, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.

Romans 12, 2.

That's one of your favorite verses.

It is.

It is, because it's what I signed Total Money Makeover with.

Is that right?

Yeah, 14 million copies now.

Beautiful.

Wow.

Yeah,

you can do it.

Don't be like everybody else.

Yeah, yeah.

God made our brain.

He can retrain our brain.

And that's really what thoughts are.

They're habits.

So creating better thought habits is really what it means to be a follower of Christ.

Perfect.

Beautifully said.

So one and only, Pastor Max Lakato.

I love you, brother.

Love you too, Doug.

Thanks for getting to hang out with us.

Good to see you again.

Anytime I get to spend a few minutes with you, my day is better.

My life is better.

The book is Tame Your Thoughts, Three Tools to Renew Your Mind and Transform Your Life.

I've got my own Max Lakato autographed copy that will go in my autograph copy collection of books.

And it's got quite a few Max Licato books in it autographed I'll just tell you this is the Ramsey show

Buying and selling a home is a big deal and you want an expert in your corner fighting for you to get the right deal at the right price.

That's why we only recommend Ramsey trusted real estate agents.

They're hand-picked pros who know their stuff, listen to your needs, and have your back from the first call all the way to closing day.

To find a Ramsey trusted agent near you, visit Ramseysolutions.com/slash agent.

Ramseysolutions.com slash agent.

This is funny.

It's National Make a Will Month.

How are you celebrating, Dave?

Sorry.

How to do it.

Horrible.

It really is, though.

It's a real thing.

So they sent me this thing.

They said five reasons people don't do a will.

Number one, procrastination.

43% of adults without a will say they just haven't gotten around to it.

Just as they keel over and die.

Perfect timing.

Perfectionism.

I'm writing a will involves a few big decisions and I don't want to make them.

Makes sense.

This is like a comedy routine.

Thinking you need a certain amount of assets before you need a will.

40% of respondents in Caring.com studies said they don't own enough to leave anybody a legacy.

Yeah, well, okay.

You got kids.

Yeah, don't let the government decide for you.

Who takes care of them?

That's a dumb idea.

Number four, a belief that everything automatically goes to a family.

It does not.

Laws are different from state to state.

Number five, uncertainty about the process.

Don't know where to start.

If you want to take our wills quiz for a simple online quiz to learn about wills, you can do that.

Recommend it.

Highly.

You really do need to get a stinking will.

It's how you say I love you to the people.

Listen, if you hate your family, leave everything very chaotic and make them sort through it.

Because they'll all be pissed at each other and it'll take years of their productivity away because they're going to be dealing with your crap.

The opposite is if you love your family, you leave everything very precise, very organized, and very systematized and detailed, and that includes a will.

So go to Ramseysolutions.com.

Will quiz.

Take the quick will quiz.

We'll help you out.

Karina is in Seattle.

Hey, Karina, how are you?

Hello, I am well, and thank you for taking my call.

Sure.

Earlier this year, I had picked up earlier this year, I had to pick up a second job because I realized that I would never be able to afford a home with my parents.

And so I've been putting away money and saving up.

You would never be able to afford a home with what?

Just the single job that I had.

Oh, okay.

I thought you said parents.

I'm sorry.

Okay.

You figured out you couldn't buy a home on your salary, so you picked up an extra job.

Correct.

Okay.

And I have been saving.

And my question is this.

I had originally planned to do a 15-year fixed rate,

but now after doing a little bit of math in the past three weeks, I've kind of been looking through all your videos and the materials you have available.

And I've come to the realization that maybe buying in cash would be best.

I am planning to buy a home with my parents simply because I live with my parents.

And the plan between my siblings and I is that I will be taking care of my parents.

So I was hoping that we would get this home, go in together, and they would live in this home.

And once I get married, I would buy a house with my significant other.

But my question is this.

My parents do not have retirement.

They're both self-employed and they don't make a lot of money.

Would it be best course of action if

I just put 7K into my Roth IRA?

Would it be best if I gift 8K to my father so that he could at least start?

And my parents are 55 and 57 currently.

You're broke.

So broke you can't buy a house.

And you're asking how to take care of your parents who don't even make a good enough living to save for themselves.

Well, I'm not broke anymore.

I do have savings now and I do have both jobs.

I'm making a decent amount.

How old are you?

And I'm 30.

Okay.

All right.

I'm 65 and in this very moment I'm pretty aggravated with a couple of 55 year olds who have not bothered to take care of themselves so that their own kid is worried about having to take care of them.

They need to get off their butt

and go make some money and take care of themselves.

And no, you don't need to move in with these people.

They're financially irresponsible.

Well, they're immigrants.

We're all immigrants and recently became U.S.

citizens.

And so they don't really speak English very well.

And so that's kind of part of the problem.

They're not very familiar with the U.S.

retirement system or anything like that.

And so they've been employed their whole life.

And they make about 32K together.

And they take care of the rent and everything.

So that's kind of why I've been able to save up during this time.

But this feels like a recipe for disaster.

You buy a house with them, and then eventually you're going to move out, leaving them to hopefully afford the mortgage on their own?

No.

So that's kind of why I was hoping after listening to

your materials and whatnot was to pay cash.

That way they would only have a little bit of expenses.

What country did you all

immigrate from?

Ukraine.

Okay.

All right.

And what does your mom and dad do for a living?

My mom is a housekeeper and my dad's a mechanic.

Okay.

And how long have they been here?

A little over 25 years.

And they still don't speak English?

My dad can understand mostly everything.

He can do like the bare

that he needs for his job and whatnot.

He's pretty well versed in his job, but in day-to-day, it's a little bit more difficult.

Or if it gets a little bit complex, my mom, on the other hand, she speaks very, very minimal.

Okay.

All right.

If they've been here two months, That's an excuse.

When you've been here 25 years, it's no longer an excuse.

It's part of learning to function in the society, to learn the language.

And, I mean, I spend two weeks in Mexico or three weeks in Mexico, and by the time I leave, my Spanish has increased dramatically.

And I'm not great with Spanish, but I'm going to learn while I'm there to be able just to function.

And that's in six weeks, not 25 years.

So I'm going to encourage your mom and dad to work on their English skills so that they can increase their incomes so that they can take better care of themselves so they're not dependent upon their 30-year-old single daughter to do that.

This is not a sustainable situation.

You're not going to buy a house with them and then move out and buy another house with your significant other.

You're going to get trapped

and have a guilt trip to take care of them because they're immigrants and they don't make enough and they can't take care of themselves is the narrative that you've painted up.

And so, no, I want to create a sustainable thing for them where they can not only sustain, but then they can move into prosperity.

And then that gives you the freedom to live the life that they brought you here to get to live, which is a life of freedom, not trapped taking care of two people who haven't bothered to learn English in 25 years.

So,

yeah, that's what I'm going to do if I'm in your all shoes.

Now, that may go over, not at all, when you start talking to them about it.

I understand that.

But those are choices they make then, and then you've got to decide what choices you make.

But I hesitate to put you into anything that causes you to have to take care of these grown people.

It's an honorable candidate.

If you

go make $2 million or something and you want to make sure they have food, that's not what I'm talking about.

But at 55 and 56, they have plenty of time to create a sustainable life.

Yeah, this is going to create more codependence, more enabling, more entitlement if they move in with you, which gives them no onus to really have to take care of themselves because daughter's got us.

She's always got us.

They've got to learn how to be independent.

So instead of kick-starting retirement, get them a Duolingo subscription.

I don't know how, give them a way so that they can create a life for themselves instead of you constantly propping it up, which is a very noble, sweet thing to do, but it doesn't solve the problem at hand.

Yeah, I'm sorry.

No, I would not buy a house with them

because I don't think it's going to lead you in 30 years where you want to be.

And I think it's going to cause you pain

and handcuffs and all of those kinds of things.

Katie's in Kansas.

Hey, Katie, what's up?

Hi.

Thank you for having me on.

Sure.

How can we help?

I'm curious if it's inappropriate of me to ask my husband to find a job that pays more to support our family.

What does he make?

2024, he made $32,000.

No, it's not inappropriate at all.

Why does he not want to do better?

The last time we had this conversation, he said that he thinks he makes enough and we have four kids and he makes half of the national average

you're a lower income family with four kids approaching the poverty level no he does not make enough

so then how do i go about having that conversation probably could just say that

And numbers and facts help too to go, listen, here's our expenses.

Here's what we need.

Hold it up.

Look it up.

What's the poverty level with four kids?

Average household income, $78,000 right now.

We make 32, we got four kids.

Poverty level with four kids is probably 26, 27, 28.

I don't know.

It might be 30.

And so, yeah, I think I do really believe on national poverty statistics that you're there.

And I think you point that out.

So, no, he doesn't make enough.

I'm curious, sorry, he also has bipolar disorder and PTSD.

So does that play a factor?

Should I not put more pressure on him because of his struggles?

No, he's got to work within those guidelines.

That's a context, it's not an excuse, as Dr.

Deloney says.

So the context is: I have to work within my bipolar, within my PTSD, and earn enough to pay for four kids.

And otherwise, it activates bipolar and act the stress and activates PTSD.

Our scripture of the day, Hebrews 6:19,

we have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure.

Serena Williams said, I am lucky that whatever fear I have inside me, my desire to win is always stronger.

Lori is in Florida.

Hi, Lori.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hi.

What's up?

I am going through a pretty

bad divorce.

I had to cash in some of my retirement account

back in March because my

spouse decided to stop supporting our family.

Of that money, I have about $38,000 left from there.

We just sold a second home that we had,

and I was able to get partial proceeds from that,

$70,000.

So my question is,

I have credit card debt.

I just started working again.

I'm basically a single mom because I'm not getting any financial support from him.

How many children do you have?

We have one together.

With you?

And

yes.

And how old?

10.

And how has your lawyer gotten away, let them get away with no financial support?

He

has lost his job.

He had a very good career, and he made some really bad decisions

to the point where he may lose a license.

may not have a career.

Okay, so he doesn't have an income.

That's why you don't have child support.

It's not because he's just being arbitrary not because the divorce is tough he he lost his job

he did and he had also he also cashed out all of our kids

college funds retirement accounts that he had and he's basically being non

he's not being forthcoming with his financials

is your attorney riding riding him

i mean you're slapping him around pulling him up before the judge and exposing all this right

Yes.

The thing is, I just came into this lump sum of money fairly recently, and I need to pay my attorney basically what I owe him.

Yeah, what do you owe your attorney?

$20,000.

Okay.

Out of the 70, that leaves you 50, and then you got 36 left from the other.

Yes.

And you got taxes and penalties.

You got taxes and penalties on that retirement account you cashed out.

Yes, sir.

Coming up next year.

This was in 25 you did that?

Or 25?

I did.

25.

All right.

And you cashed out 50 grand, and so

you're going to have a $5,000 penalty plus your taxes on that are about another 20 grand.

You're going to have about a $25,000 tax bill.

Yeah.

Okay.

Just being prepared for next April, okay, mentally.

That's what we got to do.

And are you working?

Obviously, you are.

You said you're a single mom.

What do you make?

I have been out of the workforce.

I'm a nurse.

I've been out of the workforce for several years and I just went back to work in

May.

Good.

What do you make?

After taxes, about $4,200 a month.

And you're a nurse?

I am.

Okay.

All right.

You're not getting a lot of hours, are you?

It's

I've had to if I went and worked night shift, I could get differentials, but then I have child care

issues.

Yeah, I got got you.

I'm relying on family and friends right now for child care because he can't be

involved.

I understand.

Can't be with what's going on.

He's obviously got some bad stuff going on.

Yeah, okay.

He does.

All right.

And so your question was: what?

Let me get back to that.

What do I?

I owe my if I give my

to speed this divorce up, I'd pay my attorney $20,000

And

then I potentially will get

the rest of the proceeds that were from the vacation home sale.

Yeah.

Now our marital house.

To offset the fact that he hit all the other stuff.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The marital home is currently being sold as well.

So now I'm in the process of looking for a place to

go to live with

my daughter.

Are there proceeds from that, too?

There will be, there's significant over.

Are you asking whether to pay your attorney the 20K?

Yes, is the answer.

Okay.

Absolutely.

Yeah, because here's what I'm going to say.

Listen, as long as this drags out, you cannot create your future because you're living in your past.

Yes, sir.

And it's painful as hell.

I mean, this is

hard to listen to.

It's awful.

I'm so sorry for you.

And it's not only heartbreaking,

it makes you angry and disgusted all at the same time.

And all those emotions swirling around, it's hard to do anything.

So, and I've just been talking to you three minutes and I'm already feeling all of it.

So, I mean, it's like, I can't imagine being in your head.

So, bless your heart.

I'm so sorry.

So, yeah, I want to get this in the rearview mirror as fast as I can because it sounds like this guy needs to go away and I need clarity about what I've got to do, what cards I have in my hand to deal with my future.

Yes, sir.

Yeah, get the houses sold, get the money in the bank, build up the career, get an apartment, get settled, and then let's talk about rebuilding and going from here.

But the first thing we got to do is create a sustainable, safe situation where we've got housing, where we've got a sustainable income, and we have figured out what we have net, net, net with a $25,000 tax bill coming up in the fall, in the spring.

And so,

yeah,

I'm paying him and getting all this in the rearview mirror mirror as fast as I can.

And then I've got a friend that does divorce recovery work, and she taught me years and years and years ago that divorce turns a business or turns a marriage into a business transaction.

So this just becomes a column now of assets and liabilities, of income, and it's just a math thing now because...

All this emotion and all this

betrayal and all this misbehavior are just the drama and the sidebar.

But the actual story is you and the 10-year-old moving forward with a pocket full of money, and you're a nurse, and you can go make a great living being a nurse.

And you're going to have a great life from here.

But you just need

to not have to burn all the calories dealing with this crap all the time, right?

Yes, sir.

He's just wasted away like millions of dollars.

Oh, I can't imagine.

Can't imagine, I'm sure.

Yeah, and hopefully you can get the proceeds from the vacation house, the family house, and everything to offset all the crap that he's, you know, that he's stolen from this discussion and get it all set back up.

And yeah, when you can get that and get this in the rearview mirror, it'll make all the difference in the world.

Yeah, clearing these debts, at least with all these proceeds, will clear you up financially and mentally.

It's just there's a lot going on right now.

Let's simplify as much as we can.

Yeah.

So the main thing is get the attorney paid, get that going, and then let's quantify, you know, I got $25,000 tax bill coming up.

I need to hold that money aside.

And then I need to look at what else I need to clean up, get me an apartment get an income that we can live on and then from there we'll build the career from there we'll build a life out of this and that's where you're going from here man that's just painful i'm so sorry

it helps to just put it all down in writing put it on a note and just go here's all the things that I have all the debts I need to pay off.

Here's all the money I have coming in.

And it just helps clear it from your mind to see it on paper.

And doing a budget will also help you.

I'll gift you every dollar, Lori, to help you just put all this on paper.

I'm making $4,200 a month.

Where should every single dollar be going?

That's one less thing you got to think about once you see it on there right there on the app, wherever you go.

And I don't want you to rent something nice.

I want you to rent something cheap because it's temporary.

You're not going to be there long.

You might be there one year,

maybe.

So this is not the Taj Mahal.

The 10-year-old's life is not going to be better.

because of the rental property you get.

So just keep it cheap because you need the margin.

I want you to have lots of margin where you're not touching any of this pile of money at all for living.

If you can set yourself up where you live on the 4,200, that's a sustainable beginning and you go from there.

So, wow.

So I'm sorry, kiddo.

It's real painful.

I'm sorry you're going through that.

It's awful.

It's not fair.

And some people's misbehavior.

Wow.

I post this hour of the Ramsey show in the books.

We'll be back with you before you know it.

In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.