Don’t Go Broke Trying to Keep the Peace

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships.

I am Rachel Cruz, hosting this hour with my good friend and best-selling author, Jade Warshaw, and we are here to answer your questions about life, money, career, anything and everything.

So give us a call at 888-825-5225.

Up first this hour, we have Chris in Raleigh, North Carolina.

Hey Chris, welcome to the show.

Thank you.

Thank you for taking my call.

Absolutely.

How can we help?

So I'm asking this question for my daughter and her fiancé.

And I wanted you guys to give your best explanation of why you should not buy a house together together before you are married.

Oh, I like that.

So, I mean, the first thing is there's no legal protections.

I mean, you're kind of just his word against her word, and you're commingling money together.

And so, at the end of the day, if it doesn't work out, there's not really a process in place to decide who gets what.

That would be my first thought.

Okay, so with you saying that, of course, nobody goes into a marriage thinking that it's not going to work out, and these two are no different.

But they both still live at home.

They both have jobs.

She's in college and she's finishing up a teaching degree, which is going to take her three years to do that.

And they're scheduled to get married in April of 26th.

They're trying to understand how you

wait until you're married to buy a house because they say, well, where are we going to live at?

Well, that's a good question.

And I tell them, you've got to look at Rennie.

And if they decide to um

wait I mean I want you to explain to them why that's a good thing I guess is what I'm saying to wait to get married or to wait to not buy the house together

wait to not buy the house together I think they understand the finance part of it but um

I think they're like if we don't have it when we get married we don't have nowhere to go so that's what I'm I'm kind of getting at wanting them to understand and hear it from somebody else well there's two conversations I think there's the value side of it and then there's the money side of it so on the money side yeah, we don't recommend combining money until you're married.

So, up until this point, they should be viewing her money as her money, his money as his money.

So, her money is used to buy her rent, her food, pay her bills, that sort of thing, and vice versa for him.

The moment that they start combining it, it just becomes kind of a web together, which when you're married, it's a good web, but when you're not married, it's a bad web because if something happens and they end up not staying together, then that's a lot that has the ability to be lost,

right?

Would you agree?

yes i would agree 100

yeah and then

well sorry yeah no it's fine and when you own something with someone and this is even a car chris we would say this about a car when both of your names are on the ownership of something to detangle that is very difficult to do and when you have an asset like a house it's it's very difficult and then i would say to them as well financially speaking they're just going to be out of school they don't they can't afford a house anyways like the upkeep of home ownership already is going to add stress to their life, and they don't need that, right?

Like that, that's down the road, and we want that to be part of their plan long term.

But it almost kind of steals a level of joy and freedom.

Like when you can just rent and everything's taken care of for you, like enjoy your early 20s.

Don't, you know, if you're in a place financially that you're settling down and you can buy a home and can afford it, that's one thing.

But when you're first starting out, like,

understand that, you know, it's very, very expensive.

So, so, on that end, Chris, it's very unwise, very unwise to put your name together when you are not married on an asset.

Because just like Jade just said, untangling that, it's a mess.

It's an absolute mess.

And then a house is magnified in that.

That is not a wise move.

And then you have the values conversation.

And again, people can, you know, do what they want to do and believe what they want to believe.

But I think there is something to be said about acting like you're married and pretending like you're married when you're not.

You're not married.

And there is a level of something sacred to say, hey, I'm going to join my life with this person under a vow and under a covenant.

And we are going to then merge our lives together and actually,

you know, do this life together.

And there's something that, you know, nowadays it's just like, you know,

you give it all away right up front.

And it's like, man, there's just something about saying we're going to do this in a order that, again, some would say is old-fashioned, but I think is wise because it actually gives you options.

And too, Chris, I've talked to so many people that, you know, they live together and worse, they have a house together.

And they're not like, oh, I don't even know if I want to marry this person.

And the long, you know, creating this timeline of the breaking up lasts so much longer versus like, hey, we're just trying to figure this out and it's not working.

And it's so much easier to cut ties with people.

I think so.

If it gets to that point.

What I think's going on here is

there's A, a lack of foresight.

Obviously, because they're thinking under best case scenario.

And that already is a red flag to me because the truth is life happens.

You don't know what life's going to happen.

So having the right protections in place is important.

The other thing is I think that this is more out of convenience than anything else.

I think they're trying to create a certain level of convenience instead of living their lives as they are.

How old did you say they are?

They're 20 now.

Okay, they're 20 now.

So yeah, I feel like they're going, it's just easier to do it like this as opposed to taking the smarter route and the more independent route.

Does that make sense?

I mean, I know this is not for you.

It's for them.

But absolutely.

That's why I called because what you said is right on the money.

And I can't wait for Ethan to hear this.

Well, let us know how they take it.

I hope they'll take it from two ladies who.

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah.

And it's a hard thing too, Chris.

You know, I mean, granted, she's 20, so I do feel like her

you being able to speak into her life is, you know, the doors, it's starting to close, you know, with her becoming an adult, but it's still open, hopefully.

But also knowing that, you know, as

your kids get older, and especially when they start entering adulthood,

the conversation does look different.

The tone you take, the perspective you take.

And I would just say to you, Chris, that, you know, as much as you can, the biggest way to influence, I would think her as a 20-year-old who's in college, knows what she wants to do for her career.

She's obviously very smart and she's, you know, knows a path that she's walking down.

But to

engage this conversation as much on a friend's friend's aspect than like, I'm a dad, I'm going to tell you what to do.

I just feel like you start to get to that age in the late teens, early 20s, where it's like the persuasiveness of a parent comes into play much stronger than I can control you.

Like when you have like a three-year-old and you're like, this is what you're going to do.

But some of it still gets in.

Like

truthfully, I remember when I was in my 20s, I was dating this guy.

And I remember my dad telling me, he was like, Jade, like, before you go too deep into this, just know, like, your tastes change.

Like what you want changes over time.

And I think he told me something like, what you want is going to change like five or six times.

So, and I mean, it was weird because he was like, you know, you were dating this guy and you thought, and then you were dating this.

He's like, this guy's like number four.

Like, you might change your mind again.

And as at the time, I was kind of like, oh, this guy, like, dad doesn't know what he's talking about.

But he was right.

Yeah.

And so there's part of it.

I'm like, you're 20 years old.

Don't get me wrong.

Some people, they marry their high school sweetheart, whatever.

I'm not saying against that.

But there is a part of it that that is such a growth period for most of us.

Oh, yeah.

You change so much from 20 to 25, even.

Right, right.

And so there's part of that where it's like you guys, you don't know what's going to happen in the future.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And you certainly don't want to be like locked into a financial asset like a house.

Yeah.

That might make you feel trapped.

Yes.

Let the timeline unfold naturally.

Right.

And let the turn of events, the, you know, the

order of events play out in a natural way versus trying to force it and rearrange everything because it's just going to make it more difficult.

Hope that helps, Chris.

Thanks for the call.

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Up next we have Shannon in Pensacola, Florida.

Hey Shannon, welcome to the show.

How are y'all?

We are doing well.

Thanks for calling.

How can we help?

Well,

I just have a random question because I've been getting, so I own a home here in Pensacola.

That's my only debt.

And I have a current interest rate at 7.49.

And I've been getting,

you know, I just feel like there's just so much fraud going on.

And I don't know how y'all feel about that.

What kind of fraud?

What do you mean?

Well, I just mean like we're on so many different levels.

So I had a kid called me today

who said, oh, well, we can give you, you have an FHA loan, so we can give you a five-point, I don't know what he said, 4-2.

And, oh, no money down.

I go, wait a minute.

I'm a business development person.

So I'm like, well, what's in it for you guys?

So he wanted you to refinance and he's going to get the fees.

He wanted me to refinance, but I'm like, wait a minute.

How does this work out?

Because I keep in touch with my current mortgage broker that I use to buy the home.

I keep in touch with her and I say, hey, what are they at?

Because I got a letter from FHA who said, hey, we can go down to 5.25 to 5.2%.

And I just wanted to know y'all's thoughts on that.

And I just feel like I'm like, okay.

I mean, you're right.

We're going to start.

You're going to get away.

And I know this election, there's just so much.

I'll have to

do it again.

Let's roll it on home.

All right.

Here's the thing.

Yeah.

Yes.

I think that we are starting to be at a turning point when we're gonna see i mean we already have seen uh mortgage interest rates go down and i think they're going down again this month what the fed is saying they should yeah and we might even see it before they release you know their um report or in their uh report of the interest rates whatever but my point is you get to decide right if you don't want to refinance you don't have to refinance and if there's an offer i do want my mortgage to go down y'all okay well if there's if there's an offer that that presents itself to you and you're interested in it, I just, you started out the conversation start talking about scams.

And then we kind of went to the election, then we kind of went to interest rates.

And

I want to kind of clear it out.

Being able to refinance your house at a lower interest rate is not a scam unless you do your due diligence and find, okay, this is not residable.

I'm not a scammer for it.

Yeah.

Some random guy that calls you.

I probably wouldn't

think the guy that called me.

I'm just making a point

is that he's like oh it doesn't cost you anything and i'm like hmm wait a minute that's kind of where i'm coming in so yeah they're probably to your point anything that comes up that is that is exciting right now we find this always in the financial industry uh-huh there's always going to be people prying on that right so whether it's mortgage you know mortgage rates are dropping so people are going to clamor to refinance and there may be scammers out of that crypto became a big thing scammers flock to that they will flock to try to get people's money so that's where your discernment, Shannon, comes in.

That if you choose and probably will, and anyone listening, refinancing, you know, if you're going to be in the house long term, it's a, it's a great option.

And so maybe you wait another six months to see continue, you know, after the election to see if it keeps dropping.

And then maybe, Shannon, you decide to do that, then I would use a reputable broker, whether you have one.

Churchill Mortgage is one that we recommend here at Ramsey.

I'm from Oklahoma.

She's from Oklahoma, and I just trust her.

Yeah, that's great.

That's great.

Yeah, yeah.

So doing, doing it reputably.

So, yeah, I think for sure that it would be, I think it's a great option and people will be doing that more and more.

And I think you had great advice there, Rachel.

If you're looking at rates and you're seeing them go down, I wouldn't like jump to refinance instantly.

I'd like let it happen, let them roll back because they're probably not going to jump right back up, right?

We have finally gotten to the point where it's like, okay, inflation is at this point.

Unemployment's at this point.

It has to happen.

So I'm with you.

I'd probably wait until after the election, let the chips fall where they do, and then you can make the wisest decision.

For sure.

All right, up next, we got Mike in Dayton, Ohio.

Hi, Mike.

Welcome to the show.

Hello.

How are you?

We're doing great.

How can we help?

Okay, I'm 42 years old, and I made some bad financial decisions in my life regarding 401k and stuff like that.

Got divorced.

Ex-wife took half the 401k and I've cashed it in a few times.

And I'm basically starting over at 42.

I have like 21,000 in my 401k now, and I'm only putting in like 6% because we're on baby step number two.

And I was going to see, is it too late?

No, not at all.

Not at all.

Not by a long shot.

No.

And if anything, this will probably scare you more, Mike.

I would advise you to even pause that 6%

while you're getting out of debt because here's the deal.

When you free up so much of your payments, you're able to throw then 15% of your income at retirement and be able to catch up.

So, how much debt do you guys have?

The house we got like 83,000 on, and the truck we're trying to get paid off.

Um, we should have paid off by the end of this year.

How much is it?

Um,

um,

I got like 10, almost 11,000 left in a minute.

Okay,

and we're

you keep saying we.

Who's we?

I know you were my wife.

I thought you were, okay.

So, you got divorced, you remarried.

Yeah, my my ex-wife took half a 401k.

I got remarried.

Okay, perfect.

Okay.

Perfect.

So $11,000 on the truck.

A lot better money.

Yeah.

That's great.

Okay.

So $11,000 on the truck.

What else do you guys have?

Just a mortgage.

Okay.

So the $11,000.

Okay.

Yeah.

So the mortgage goes, obviously, in baby step six.

So we're not worried about that right now.

So yeah, I would get this $11,000.

How much do you guys make combined income?

I make $3,784 an hour and she makes about $30,000.

Okay.

What's that amount to every month?

Do what now?

What's that amount to every month?

What do you see monthly on your budget?

Oh,

around $5,000, $6,000 a month.

Okay.

Just for me.

Just for you?

Yes.

And then what does she bring in a month?

It's close to $5,000.

Okay.

Okay.

So you guys are making $120,000 a year?

Fair?

Yeah, close to.

Okay.

dark.

So yeah, I would pause that 6%, Mike, honestly, until this truck's paid off.

And then you guys get a fully funded emergency fund.

And then press play.

And then you got 15%.

Jade's got her fancy calculator out.

So we're going to be, are you able to?

Yeah, I got it in there.

Say, so you were worried earlier.

You're like, I'm 42.

I've made these mistakes.

And here's the thing.

This is just the picture you painted today.

Let's pretend you clear out this car, you clear out this debt pretty quickly, and you said you make about $120,000 a year.

You know, if you're putting around 15% into investments, that's about $1,500 a month.

Let's say you do that from the time you're 42 to the time you're 65.

And I'm just using the Ramsey Solutions investment calculator.

You already had 21,000 in there, which is great.

So if every month you contribute $1,500 at a 10% rate of return, which is average.

contrary to popular belief.

I mean, that's almost $2 million.

It's $1.8 million.

And that's a big deal.

That's plenty.

And on the current income you have, Mike.

That's right.

That's not you getting raises and your wife changing jobs.

I mean, it will continue.

Usually for most people, their income continues to go up in their lifetime.

That's right.

So $2 million, Mike.

You're on track.

Don't you worry.

But hey, it's a good little, like, you know, we talk about how fear can be a gift.

There was a great book called Fear is a Gift and there was a gift of fear.

And there is, there is a, a beauty in it because it kind of does shake you up a little bit.

Oh my gosh, am I late?

And then you're able to say, okay, what changes do we need to make for this not to be a reality?

So you're doing great, Mike.

I appreciate you calling and good luck to you and your wife because, yeah, you guys are on track.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show.

I'm Rachel Cruz, hosting this hour with Jade Warshaw.

So give us a call at 888-825-5225.

And we're here to answer your questions.

Up next, we have Sarah in Atlanta.

Hey, Sarah, welcome to the show.

Hi, how are you?

Thank you for taking my call.

Absolutely.

How can we help?

I pretty much don't even know where to really start.

So I've been married for less than three years.

And I've worked for everything that I have, and nothing was given to me.

And when I got married,

my net worth was a little over a million.

But that did

consist of most money in retirement and equity in a few rental properties.

My fiancé at the time, now a husband,

did not have as much as I did, which was fine.

And

so we had decided to get a prenup and whatever he came in with, I matched.

And then anything else in excess of that was to go to our children.

What did he come in with?

He came in with $160,000.

So you were at a million net worth and he was at $160,000 net worth?

Yeah.

Whose idea was the prenup?

Mine.

Okay.

Keep going.

So

fast forward,

fast forward.

I'm making a great income.

He's making a great income.

I've always been a saver, just naturally, very, always, you know, lived below my means.

And

things just begun like just not making any sense

and my husband owns his own business and I just started seeing our accounts getting lower and lower and lower when I believe our accounts should have been getting higher and higher so I said hey you know like what's going on and

his response was oh you know I just haven't done the paperwork you know for taxes and said that he filed the tax extension so um

you know so um it's taking taking money out of his savings until he goes through his paperwork so he can know what he has to pay exactly.

I said, okay.

Several months went by, and I still notice these things going down, and things just don't make sense to me.

Something in particular happened, and I said, I pretty much said,

Are you sure everything's okay?

He said, Yeah.

I asked him to please let me see his account, his business account where he said all the money was.

And that's when when he admitted to me that he has,

that he is, he has been stealing from his words were

from us, from me, and is a fraud.

And

needless to say,

dove into everything, and he has completely wiped us out.

Oh, my gosh.

Our savings,

everything.

We now only have two months of emergency fund.

We have two very small children,

two under two.

Uh-huh.

You say he wiped out your savings.

How much did you have saved?

And he was just funneling it to keep his business afloat?

Is that what you're saying?

So

we had over $100,000 in savings.

He also

took from me personally $286,000.

Out of where?

Just various accounts that I had that were deemed as premarital that weren't supposed to be touched.

And what did he use that money for?

So I just went through everything and there is no addictions.

There was no other woman.

There's nothing like that.

So then when I dove into things, so it turns out that he actually, the lies began when we were dating.

And he actually lied on his prenup.

And the $160,000 that he even came in with were

tied to loans

and lines of credits from his business.

So he just said that this is how much credit I have.

It's not real, it's not real net worth.

I didn't know that.

But that's what he just admitted to you, though, recently.

So, yeah.

So really, he came in with zero.

And

he lied on a he actually came in with a legal document right so he lied on a legal document too yeah yeah um yeah when did all this happen sarah how long ago

about two months ago okay

and i have to say i'm still in shock sure sure um

how's the business doing is is it going into the business and his business is tanking or does he when you look at his business is is there profit

and he's just not bringing that back into the personal side

No, no, his business is not doing anywhere near as well as it used to

or as it was.

And he has been lying about how well it's doing.

Wow.

And,

you know,

and just, you know, like I'm a budgeter, you know, like if you tell me, hey, you know, only this much money is coming in.

I'll just, you know, pull out a spreadsheet and say, hey, let's start budgeting.

But that's not what happened.

Instead, you know, we're going on vacations.

Yeah.

Instead, we're, you know, doing things like that that we shouldn't be doing

if you have debt.

Yeah.

So he's also racked up about $130,000 now in personal debt.

Can I ask you a question?

Can I ask you a question?

Because he's not here, so I can't question him in the same way.

Yeah.

What was the inside of you that made you go, I need to sign a prenup with this guy?

Was there a red flag already?

No, it was, no, there wasn't.

It was just the fact that

our

net worth was so vast and different.

So different.

Yeah.

So different.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Sarah, I'm so sorry.

I'm so sorry.

So are you separating from him?

No.

I feel

we have two very small children.

And again, I'm still very much in shock, but we have two very small children.

And I know the statistics with

growing home, going in a home is you know growing up in a home with a broken household and I don't want that for my children either yeah are you in counseling you're just so young are you guys in counseling will he go no

um he said he would go but to be quite frank it's not something that we could afford right now

well

if you're going to make this

the marriage part work Sarah you're married to a liar

and not just a liar like here and there like i mean this is like a this is, yeah, this is a, there's, there's something, there's something wrong, deeply, deeply, deeply wrong

with him.

And in the process, he's hurting his family.

And so for you to draw boundaries for yourself does not make you a bad mom.

I just want to, I just want to give you freedom to do what's best for Sarah in this moment.

And to, for this to be a healthy, longevity, you know, level of a marriage, there is, there is a lot of broken, broken, broken pieces.

And without a professional, I really believe to be in the mix of this and for him to show deep remorse and a pattern of change until you have trust.

I'm separating everything today, Sarah, financially.

You need to protect yourself.

You need to, your income now goes into a different account with his name nowhere near it.

I would contact a lawyer just on the basis of lying about a prenup.

I would just get some more information to protect yourself and your kids because I have a I have already done most of that and I'm in the midst of a postnup,

which he has agreed to.

Where you go back and

have like basically a prenup in the middle of the marriage.

Is that what that is?

Changing the prenup to make it correct to where you guys currently are?

No.

No, no.

Postnum, just reiterating that like

his debt is his debt.

And even if I decided to, let's say, help him get out of his debt, that I would not be, you know, I'm expecting to get reimbursed at some point.

It's not just

my responsibility.

I hear you.

Yeah.

Well, what we find so much often, Sarah, with these,

I mean, that this, I mean, the level of financial infidelity that you've experienced is the level of an affair.

I mean, you know, you can, you can put anything in place, but that you start to question yourself.

I mean, there's so much in that when you are so deeply lied to from the person that you're supposed to be in a marriage with.

So I would do what I could.

I would have my own therapist.

I would have him go to therapy if you're going to make this work, but I would also protect yourself until a pattern is proven that he's proven back his trust with finances.

But for now, I would keep it separate and you have your stuff.

Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance, or they don't have any at all.

I don't understand this, John.

Why don't people want to take care of their family?

They think they're going to die or something?

Well, I used to be one of those guys.

I didn't even think about it.

And one of my buddies said, hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids.

And I immediately went and got term life insurance.

That's a gut punch.

And oh, you're telling me, and for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse.

They've lost somebody important to them.

Me too.

They don't know what to do next.

Me too.

I I mean, you're going to have a crisis here, and you've got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow.

She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow.

That's exactly.

These are the two options.

And take care of your dadgum family, man.

Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses, so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad.

Yeah.

To just miss you.

That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance.

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Go to xander.com or call 800-356-4282.

You are listening to the Ramsey Show.

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So keep doing that.

And in the meantime, we're going to go to the phones.

We got Brenda.

She's in Jackson, Mississippi.

What's going on, Brenda?

Hello.

Hi, Jaden Rachel.

Thank you for taking my call.

You bet.

Me and my husband are having a little bit of a disagreement about a job that's coming up.

Me and my husband are in babysitter three.

So saving up for that three to six month emergency fund.

My husband and I just run a little side gig of handyman service.

We have not been formally trained or anything, but we work on our own house and so do it for friends and family that need help.

The job that's coming up this weekend is for a missionary friend of ours.

The wife doesn't work and the husband works two small part-time jobs.

And

they had a leak in their bathroom and they knew about it but didn't deal with it for a couple of years.

So now the damage is pretty extensive.

So

my husband wants to charge them about $10 an hour for us to do the work.

They will cover the materials in addition.

But I want to charge our standard service, which is about $50 an hour.

Oh, okay.

He says that they're poor

and so we shouldn't charge them and they have told us that they

don't really have the money to do it, but it's getting to the point where their shower is about to fall through the floor.

Did they come to you because they figured you would give them a discount?

Like, have they given any indication that it's like, oh, they'll probably give us a discount?

Not

necessarily, but they...

They know that we're going to be cheaper than a regular contractor that's going to come out and do it.

I mean, Brenda, how long will how long would the problem would the project take how long would the project take

two to four days depending on how expensive it is once we get into it if it's worse than we think it is and if you did it that would be the only thing you could work on for the two to four days

yes but it's time that my husband has off anyway so it's not like we're taking off additional work yeah i mean If you feel like you're being taken advantage of, that's one thing for sure.

That doesn't feel good ever to anyone.

But we also, when we talk about giving, you know, there's giving in money, there's giving in time, there's giving in talents.

And maybe it's a thing your husband's like, yeah, I just feel called to help this family.

And they're in a really rough situation.

They don't have the money to fix something like their water.

Like, I mean, it's kind of a need.

It's a necessity.

And I mean, if he wants to do it, and again, I think it's a one-off.

If it becomes a pattern where he constantly is using his time and keeps losing money continually, maybe like a red flag.

But for two days, if it's something that he wants to do,

I mean, I get you guys are on baby step three.

I understand it.

And again, if you're being taken advantage of, like that feels gross, right?

Like there's a, there's a level there where you're like, oh, I don't know if that feels right.

And, but I feel like if he wants to do it out of just

who he is and he can, and y'all aren't paying, y'all, it's no out of pocket for y'all.

It's really just time at that point.

Um,

I don't know.

I, I, I, I could see it, but I'm more of like the emotional side person when it comes to that stuff.

We're like, yeah, absolutely.

We can do it.

But I don't want it to be detrimental to you guys, but I don't think 20, I don't think two days is detrimental.

I mean,

I'll tell you what my husband and I do because I'm always the one that's like, let's give this much.

And he's like, cool out.

Like, let's pull back.

Like, let me, let me look at the numbers.

And so what we always do is we agree to pray about it.

Like, you go over there and pray about it.

I'll go over here and pray about it.

And then when we come together, it's like one, two, three, say it.

And still, I'm always the one that's trying to do the most.

And he's come up a little bit, you know?

And so then from there, we just kind of meet in the middle.

So maybe it's, you know, you want to charge the whole $50 an hour.

He was doing 10.

Maybe it's like, hey,

maybe getting off this call, you're like, fine, I'll just do what he wants to do.

But if you're not, like, go pray about it.

Give yourselves 24 hours or whatever time you have.

And then meet in the middle.

Like, you'll either come out on the same card or it's something that you have to meet in the middle.

And maybe it's like, okay, we're not going to charge 50, but we're going to charge 25.

and we're going to give them half rate, whatever it is.

Yeah, or maybe it's a time thing too, that if you guys get into it and it's going to take a day beyond that, that you guys may say, hey, there's a point that we're not going to be able to continue this because of X, Y, and Z and letting them know that up front.

Have you guys asked their budget at all?

We know they follow, we know they've heard about the Ramsey plan and they agree with it,

but we also know that

they don't have the money.

Yeah, but did they say that to you guys?

Like, we don't have money to fix this?

Well,

not necessarily, but they told us that they might put, like, we, we said we would need money up front to pay for the materials.

And they said, well, if we don't get paid this week, like if Mark check isn't big enough, we'll just put it on a credit card.

And that's when my husband was like, no.

Well, no, we don't really have to

do that much.

Yep.

So again, I think,

you know, we didn't put him in this position.

They knew about this leak for years and they did nothing about it.

Sure.

It could have been a cheaper fix.

So

yeah.

And again, I think if there are people in your lives that you continue to enable and continue to give and give and give and give and give, and they don't change, I mean, like, there's a, there's a level that you could start to be taking advantage of for sure.

But if you haven't had history of that or history going forward and he just feels this like tug on his heart of like,

I just feel like, you know, I want to do this, not because I have to or or because I feel bad.

Like, you know what I mean?

Like, there's bad, there's not great motivations always.

Like, it needs to be something that he's like, listen, I see this family.

I know I can do this.

I'm going to give them two days.

I'm going to give them a significant discount.

They need the help.

And I feel called to do that.

Like,

that may be what he wants to do.

You know what I mean?

But I do think, yes, I hear you, Brenda, that it doesn't feel right.

There's not a level of justice there.

She's not working.

She could go and get a job and bring in money.

Like, I hear all of that totally.

What's the real numbers here?

Because you gave us by hour.

Like, what, how, how much money is this equating to?

So, if it was my

fee, it would be $1,000 to $1,500, not including materials, and we don't upcharge on the materials at all.

And if it was my husband's, it would just be $200 flat.

And who covers the materials?

They do?

They still cover the materials, yes.

So it's about $300 in materials and then an additional $200 for labor, so $500 total.

Okay.

So we're talking about the difference between like $200 or $1,800?

No,

$1,500 or $500.

Okay.

So it's $1,000.

The materials is $300 and it'd be the same either way.

So it's $1,000 difference.

You know,

I wouldn't tell you what to do.

I mean, I can sit here and be like, listen, if you guys have the money, do it.

But at the same time, you and your husband have to be on the same page.

And that's something that Rachel and I can't do for you.

So

listen, take my advice.

Go home and give yourself a quick little bit of time and be like, we're going to pray about it.

We're going to take, you get 24 hours.

I get 24 hours.

We're going to reconvene.

And no matter where we hit, we're going to meet in the middle.

And then

there is some bit of give and some bit of take because I would be feeling some type of way if I was like, this is my, this is my vacation time.

Like we were supposed to go away with the family and do something fun.

Because then it's not only the time, but it's the value of the time too.

So there are.

Yeah, if he's having to take PTO and all, yes.

I think that there's, yes, wise ways to go about it.

But if you're self-employed, he's doing his own thing and he has two days that he has to go and help.

I don't know.

I think service is a great way to give.

Yes, and it hurts.

And it hurts.

sometimes more than money.

Time is so valuable.

It's so valuable.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, that's a conundrum.

But, you know, I always like to lean a little bit on the side of generosity.

I mean, you have to do what you can afford and what makes sense for your family.

But yes, generosity is very, very important.

That does it for this hour of the Ramsey Show.

Thanks for hanging out with us.

Check us out next hour.

Let's get real, folks.

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We are here for you, America.

All right, up next, we have Josh in Sacramento, California.

Hey, Josh, welcome to the show.

Hi.

Hi, thanks for having me.

I'm taking for my calls.

Absolutely.

Straight to the point.

Straight to the point.

I live in the People's Republic of California.

I'm trying to leave this state.

What I have a problem with is it's kind of a financial and life career as well.

So right now I'm a federal government employee.

I am seven years out from retirement or when I'm eligible.

My wife is a nurse.

She makes really good money in California.

They make her anywhere from $90 an hour.

My goal is to, one, sell my house, transfer to a different position and to a different state within the same agency,

just because I have a very toxic work environment going on right now, and I just, I need to get out.

But the problem is, is if my wife leaves the state of California, she'd go from $90 an hour to $30 an hour, which is a

huge financial cut.

She'd also probably lose her 401k as well as that.

We did talk about doing Foster to adopt in the event that we did move.

But my question to you, I guess, is, am I just being

cutting my nose off to spite my face and just try to just deal with it, knowing the fact that I have seven years left to retirement, my house will be paid off in four years?

You sound like you're at the end of your

rope.

You sound really frustrated.

Oh, I am.

I'm very frustrated.

yes i'm very frustrated i've i've wanted transfer i've wanted to transfer and get out of the state for 17 years of my career does your wife want to leave as well besides the money i know she'll take a pay cut but just in general

her family's here but she realizes how frustrated i am

and like i said my my boss is just

utterly horrible right now and it's been going on for a long time

oh yeah yes it has so my question to you is my being emotionally stupid by wanting to leave just so i can quote unquote have a more happy life to trade one stress for another for financial stress.

Well, listen, is it California?

Like, okay, so if you you work for the state.

It's K it's it's California.

The state sucks.

The high taxes, just getting out of everything.

All right.

Okay, you are, yeah, you you're at your wits end.

You're done.

You're done.

Okay, so if you were to leave, what would you do?

And where would you go?

I'd basically stay with the same federal agency.

I would go from what I'm doing now to basically to just a different

function or job function, but just to the same pay.

Is there a difference?

I'm glad that it would be a lower cost of living, which would be $13,000 a year.

Where?

But I'd imagine that, so it'd be from California possibly to Georgia.

But I'm wondering if basically

the tax rate out of Cal

Well, that's where the position is at for my agency.

Have you ever been to Georgia?

Okay.

Have you ever been?

Yes, I have.

Okay.

What's your wife think about

Sections of it she hates.

Okay.

Because here's the thing, Josh.

I mean, I can hear you're frustrated.

And

I mean, I could only imagine.

I mean, I understand it is from

just the state perspective that you're frustrated with.

And then on top of that, you have a terrible job.

You go and work somewhere for 40, 50 hours a week in a miserable place.

So yeah, you're not in a good, this isn't like a good headspace for Josh.

So my question is,

you're not the only one in this equation, right?

So your wife is going to have as much of an input

in this decision too, because

I think that there has to be this, you know, I don't know, but if she is not on board resentment later on in life, you know, moving away from family,

going to a place she hates, she's going to end up being you.

in four years, possibly.

I don't know, but that's a warning sign.

It's just like, you guys need to be so tight-knit on this decision because it's a big deal to move across the country.

So you guys need to lock arms and like be like, we are in this together.

The good, the bad, the ugly, we are in this together.

Cause I don't want your marriage to be destroyed in the process either.

Right.

And I want to be able to give her a voice too.

And her frustrations may not be as deep as yours.

And I don't want her.

And I, and honestly, Josh, the motivation for her, I'm like, there's a part of me that I'm like, I would hate for her to do it just to make you happy because Josh is frustrated.

So we got to go do what Josh wants to do.

Right.

So like there needs to be a level of agreement upon you guys.

And I thought plan B too, which I know you hate California, but is there a different position you could take where you guys live, a different job, a different opportunity, at least to get out of the toxicness of that job and then just have the frustrations with the taxes in California?

I don't know.

But if you and your wife agree to move to Georgia, then make the move.

You're not, no, leaving a job seven years away from retirement is not stupid because the work is, you're, you're in in a terrible situation.

So no, that is not stupid to leave that.

No, I listen,

I am of the mind that if one spouse is completely unhappy, then neither, nobody's happy.

That's true.

So I do think that probably a move is good, but if she has come out and said, I don't really like Georgia, then Georgia's got to be off the table.

You've got to pick a place where both of you are like, yeah.

I feel, yeah, I'm up for that adventure.

And I mean, there's 50, I don't want to say 50 states.

What is it now?

49.

No, it's 50.

But don't the other territories count?

Okay.

So there's 50 states and then some territories, depending on what history book you look in.

Okay.

And so there's a lot of options here is what I'm saying.

Going back to the conversation about the 401k quickly, what made you say that she'd lose her 401k?

So, so, well, I wouldn't say she would lose her 401k.

What she did is she would stop contributing to a 401k.

So she'd be able to take it out.

Yeah, you just transfer it.

You just transfer it.

Right.

Okay.

I just want to be clear about that.

So

I guess the issue is me is, you know, I've only got seven years left.

My mortgage will be done in four years on my house.

My wife is like going from $90 an hour to basically 30 if she decides to work.

If not, then it's like, it's a huge.

Let me ask, let me ask you this.

Is there any world where you're like, I, is there any world where you're willing to ride this out longer?

Because you're the person who brought up in just seven years, I'll retire and in just four years, I'll have my car paid off.

So, or yeah, I'm sorry, my house paid off.

So do you really care about those things?

Or do you know what I'm saying?

Like, are those things that you're weighing in, or are you beyond that?

So, here's the problem.

Emotionally and mentally, I'm just, I am checked out.

The problem is, is I don't want to live life on the emotional aspect.

I know logically, financially, it makes more sense to stay.

However, I don't know if I can emotionally and mentally handle it for a while.

Yeah, mentally and emotionally is going to be because you could be debt-free and still be miserable in your job.

And you're not saying this is after six months.

You've said for seven years.

For years, you've been upset.

Yeah, probably about most of my career, probably about 10.

The last 10 years of my career, it's gotten a lot better.

So it's safe to say that you have sacrificed a certain level of life.

Why have you stayed in it, Josh?

I'm curious.

What was that?

Why have you stayed in it for 10 years?

The pension and early retirement.

Okay, so this is a good lesson for America that money does not equate to happiness.

There is a level of your life that as adults, we have to decide to bring a level of peace and just into work a crappy, I would say a different word, but we're on a family-friendly show.

crappy, crappy situation just to make a paycheck.

You guys, it's not worth it.

It's not worth it.

Like life is too short.

Life is too short, Josh.

So you and your wife, I would sit down, you guys, yeah, pick a place on the map and say, we're going to transfer.

And we may even be in different careers, but we're going to find a level of peace and enjoyment.

And we may make less, but people that make less and live within their means and work somewhere, they're happy.

So, yeah, you gotta, yeah, Josh, y'all gotta make some changes for sure.

And you should have made them eight years ago, if I'm being honest, not to shame you, but we need to make some decisions here, Josh.

We're rooting for you.

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All right, today's question comes from Justin in California.

He says, I've been working hard to save money for a house.

My wife and I have no debt and have a six-month emergency fund.

So far, I've saved $175,000 for our down payment.

We have a combined income of $140,000.

We live in California and are looking at houses in the $650,000 range.

I want to save more so that we can put more down on the house.

My wife has been asking me to buy her a diamond ring

that costs about $3,500.

I am holding off on buying the ring because we can use that money to pay for closing costs.

Should I buy a diamond ring for her or wait until we buy the house?

This is wild.

I'm assuming that the diamond ring is not like

a wedding ring or like, I'm assuming it's just a gift that she wants.

Right, right.

Yeah, I think based on what you've laid out here, I would have loved to hear her side of it, but based off of what you've laid out here, it sounds like you have decided that the priority is the house.

And at the end of the day, you both need to sit down and retalk and say, okay, what's more important?

Us trying to get into this house.

Because if I buy this ring, this is how much it sets us back.

So, yeah, and I would want to know the timeframe on how much, like, how, how many months or how much, you know what I mean?

Like, just to know, like, how, what is this setting you back?

And is that, are you, are you okay with that, both of you?

Yeah.

And I do think it's okay.

Uh, and Rachel, you can drop in here.

I think it's okay, like as a couple, when you set a focus and you're going towards that thing, and as the time passes, other things crop up, and you're like, oh, that could be cool or that could be fun.

Yes.

And I do think it's important to have those conversations and decide, are we realigning back on what the goal was or are we going to divert here for a moment?

Because at the end of the day, it is your life, and you get to decide, you know, how urgently are we moving?

That's right.

And I don't know if this diamond ring was something you've been promising her, maybe you guys got engaged and you never got her a ring.

I don't know any of that, but have the conversation.

But it sounds like the house is

what's most important.

And I would say, you know, the down payment, you guys are, you know, above that 25%.

Yeah.

So I'm like, you're in a good spot for the down payments.

You know, like it's a, I don't don't know you you you have a lot there percentage wise for what the house is worth um so how much would three thousand really set you back but also i'd want to know from her like you know there's about and i do you know don't get me wrong i love jewelry i love shopping all of it but also you're like okay

what what is that gonna get me in the in the near term right maybe yeah maybe maybe he got her just like a band when they got married and always promised her like an actual like diamondry i don't know that's valid valid.

If there's something there,

but I would want to see timeframe

how long this would set you back to the goal that you want to have for your down payment on the house.

That's what I'd be curious about.

Hope that helps, Justin.

All right.

Up next, we have Haley in Omaha.

Hey, Haley, welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you for having me today.

It's such an honor to be on the show.

Absolutely.

Thanks for calling.

How can we help?

So, my parents took out a universal life policy on me when I was born, me and my sister both.

And now that I've turned 21, I have the option to continue paying those payments for the universal life policy or cashing it out with the cash value and gifting that back to my parents and just moving on for the future.

Oh, you have to give it back to them when you cash it out?

Yes.

Is that what they said?

Yeah.

Okay.

How much will it be?

It's just $750 for the cash value.

Okay.

I'm just curious because you said you have the option to keep paying on it or cash it out.

Yes.

So that's interesting to me that you would keep paying on it and then, but if you were to cash it out, you have to give the money back to them.

This is very odd.

Either way, I would cash it out and get out of that.

Yeah.

How old are you, Haley?

Did you say?

I'm 21.

21.

Okay.

So the difference between what they have, a universal life policy is similar to like, it's like basically a whole life

policy.

And you're paying probably four times the amount than what you would pay for just a standard term policy.

Because what you have, this universal life, what they basically pair is this like investment savings account with life insurance.

And what ends up happening when you pair and marry those two products, you kind of get.

crappy on both, especially the savings side.

So the rate of return usually within these policies is is like, it's terrible.

You could do better in a high-yield savings account, much less like actually investing your money with the 10, 12% return, you know, that the market brings.

So the savings investment portion sucks on these.

And that's the selling point.

So always remember this, Haley, going forward into adulthood, that you want to keep your insurance and your investing completely separate.

Never combine them because when you combine them, you're not getting the best of both worlds.

You're paying more for a policy and you're getting a crappy investment with it.

So, like, it's a horrible product.

And a lot of parents, yeah, you took it out when you were born.

I mean, that's the Gerber life insurance.

I mean, like, all these companies go and they do this, you know, these policies for babies.

And, and why you need life insurance too, Haley, is if someone is dependent upon your income.

So, if I were you, Haley, I would cancel it, say goodbye to the $700,

give it back to your parents and live your life.

Don't be paying monthly on this.

And then, when you need life insurance, aka when you usually when you become a parent or even if you get married,

you know, and someone is dependent upon your income to live the lifestyle that you guys are living, then I want you to go.

That I could have this policy if I were to like pass away and then someone were to have to pay for my funeral costs.

So that's why this policy is around like $25,000.

Sure, okay.

Well, anything you would recommend having savings for or a policy for?

The purpose of insurance is for people who are dependent on your income.

Typically, when you have life insurances in place, it's because, like, for instance, I have life insurance in place because my family depends on my income.

My husband has life insurance in place because we depend on his income.

We have children.

And so, if one of us, God forbid, if something were to happen, the family will feel that.

And so, we say, Let's have this policy in place so that if the worst happens, everybody who depends on this income will be set, not just enough to pay for funeral and burial costs, but they won't have to worry about money.

That's the blessing that can come out of a really tough situation.

So, in this case, your parents having a policy on you was completely, truly unnecessary.

Yeah.

And the funeral cost, you know, idea, funerals, they are getting more expensive, but at 21 years old, I would not have the burden of feeling like I need to have savings for my funeral, right?

So, like, that I would not add that into the conversation.

Some people may be like, that's irresponsible.

But as a 21-year-old, your parents will take care of it if something were to happen to you, Haley.

So, yeah, I would not be paying monthly into something just for that.

And that is a selling point, they say, too, right?

Like, that's right.

To cover the funeral and all of that.

So,

again, Haley, when you get in a position in life, though, that you need life insurance, remember, term life is going to be your best friend.

And the earlier you get it, the younger you are, the healthier you are.

It is like, it is so inexpensive.

Even for me, I'm in my late 30s and it's still inexpensive at this point.

I mean, like, it is, it is a fraction of what you pay with whole life.

So, and the coverage you get for that is

so much better.

Yes.

And for term life, it is for a term of your life, right?

Whole life is for your entire life.

Term is for, you know, a 20-year, 30-year, whatever policy you buy.

But as you're doing the Ramsey baby steps and you're walking through, getting out of debt, you have an emergency fund in place, you're funding retirement, eventually your house is paid off.

You know, baby steps millionaires are doing all of this on average in about nine to 12 years, doing everything.

And at that point, you're self-insured.

When you, when you, if something were to happen to you and there's no house payment, there's no debt, and you have, I don't know, 300 grand and a 401k or whatever it is, like, you know, everyone's fine.

So you won't need life insurance for your entire life if you're doing the Ramsey way when it comes to your money, which is what we recommend.

I feel like it's a great call, Haley.

Great question.

Whole life, universal life.

It's like the spork.

It's a spork.

It is.

It's not really a fork.

It's not really a spoon.

Yeah.

And if you go to Xander,

Xanderinsurance.com, you guys, check out Xander because you're able to get a quote so quickly with them just to even see and compare maybe the insurance that you all have that are listening or watching, and maybe you can get a better deal because they go and shop many companies and it's a great, great company.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show.

We have Katie on the line from Dallas from the last segment, and Katie was telling us she has $47,000 saved, $24,000 in debt, which was car and credit cards.

And she was wondering initially when she called in about how to invest and how to pay off debt, not just let that money sit there because she wants to make progress.

And as we kind of were digging into the numbers in her situation, kind of unpacking the relational side of money and marriage and money is so closely related when you are married, working together with your spouse and being on the same team is a crucial part.

But also we know on the other end, it's one of the leading causes of fights and tension and divorce and conflict.

And when you're not on the same page and when you live kind of separate lives financially.

And as we were unpacking with Katie a little bit, that's what we've kind of started to discover is

where they are from a a relational standpoint when it comes to their money.

Katie, is that a good overview?

Would you change any of that or add anything?

Oh, gosh, that was unexpected.

Yes, you've definitely unpacked it.

We unpacked it.

Yeah, so before we were getting off the call, we just kind of asked, and I feel like it kind of struck some emotion in you

of knowing that you guys don't work.

together, but yet he has a lot of debt.

And you said it was just too much debt for you to even want to handle or to face.

Is that right?

yeah um my parents they they

they got divorced because of money

so that's a good year kind of the background um

my husband he's he has let some a few credit cards go to collections uh recently as soon as my daughter was born um he just he's been underwater for

what feels like a long time,

probably two years already.

And if I mention this, you're going to say, Salad.

Tell us.

The truck.

It's the truck.

He has $11,000 left on it, but it's these monthly payments of $600 that he wants to be free from.

Okay.

What other debt does he have?

What's the credit cards and collections?

What are those amount to?

Do you know?

I want to say roughly it's

$7,000.

Okay.

Anything else?

Now you've opened my eyes.

No, not that I know of.

Maybe I need to have a discussion with him.

I think so, because don't get me wrong, I hate debt and I don't like any amount or form of debt, but I was, again, expecting for you to say, like, he's got $200,000 of debt.

I was expecting something way more astronomical.

And when you told us, hey, yeah, he's got $18,000 of debt, I kind of just was like, oh, okay, cool.

Like, we can pay that off.

And he's he's working, right?

Yes, he is.

Okay, let me dig deeper.

I just

came in.

So he has, we have this watercraft boat.

It is under both of our names, but he takes financial responsibility for it.

And the balance is $11,000.

Okay, so there's another $11K.

What else?

Anything else?

Aside from his truck, the car, and the few credit cards, there is nothing else.

So a truck and a car?

Sorry, the truck and the boat.

Okay, truck and the boat.

So, we're $28,000.

How much is the boat worth?

Do you know?

No idea.

Okay, okay.

We haven't looked into it.

It's very precious.

Okay.

And what do you haven't either?

And does he have any money saved in his name?

No.

No.

Okay.

So,

okay, so Katie, I think what this starts to open up and what you're feeling, and correct me if I'm wrong, but it is touching every security, insecurity part of your story and in your life.

Like you've done everything you can to stock money away, even taking out credit cards and spending over here, but just knowing the safety of money has been a lifeline for you and probably coming out of a lot of pain from your parents' experience.

And you've done everything to safeguard yourself, right?

Against, I would say against debt, but what's funny is you've taken on some debt, right?

So there is still a level of risk there, but you've padded yourself with the savings and it's kind of become your lifeline and you're gripping onto that and letting go of that is one of the scariest things for you to do.

Would that be correct?

Yes.

Yeah.

Which is very understandable, Katie.

Very understandable.

And so I want you to, as much as you can, because with money, emotions drive so much of this.

And the more logical we can get, the safer I think you're going to feel with some of these decisions.

And one of the first steps

I would do is sit down with him because I don't know his, I'm not on the phone with him and I can't ask him these questions.

I don't know where he's at.

If he is at a place, Katie, that he's like, I'm so overwhelmed.

I'm so mad at myself, right?

He's probably not feeling great about himself.

And it's like, I want to change.

I want to turn this around.

That's, that's one scenario.

A scenario I would have a red flag and cause you to pump the brakes a little bit on all of this.

If he's like, I don't care, I don't care, Katie.

I'm going to do what I want.

And we get those calls too with some guys that are like, Well, he wants to buy the truck.

He doesn't care.

He's going to buy it.

And we're, you know, we can't make the payment, but he doesn't care.

Right.

So, like, that is a character issue.

If it's that, would you say it's kind of the first scenario or the second?

I'm pretty sure he will call the show tomorrow.

No, not to mark that.

Okay, okay, good.

Yeah.

But so he's more of on the first on that first, you know, scenario, you would say.

He's all for it.

Okay.

Okay.

So, Katie, okay, I I just I want to encourage you that you're this is all good, right?

Like I know you feel overwhelmed and we're going to walk you through a very clear plan right now.

So the first thing I want you to do is you guys together tonight,

you can open a bottle of wine if you need like just a good sip of some

pizza.

Whatever you got to do to relax and say, okay, together, we're going to look at everything.

We're getting out our pay sub stubs.

We're going to know exactly, because when I asked you how much money you guys make a year, you said, I think around six, like, I want you to know to the dollar, here's what we make combined.

Here's every debt.

We're going to write it out and we're going to know everything here.

And we're going to tonight shake hands and say, we are now a team.

Together, no longer are we roommates Venmoing each other for the mortgage.

No.

Screw all of that.

No, we are one.

Our income, when our income hits our new checking account that we're going to open on Monday morning, when our income hits that account together, we are working as a team.

Because when you do that, Katie, not only from an emotional perspective, does it create so much unity and so much of a more beautiful marriage?

Because you see yourselves as one, which is what you do when you choose to get married to live life with another person.

You're living that out on a tactical sense with your money.

So that's such a beautiful part of it.

And then.

Together, tactically, as you start to trust each other in this, you're going to have this cleaned up, Katie.

I would sell the boat immediately, but then by Monday, you guys can take this $47,000.

And this is going to scare you, but I would pay off all, I would keep $1,000.

And you would have, you have, I think, $42,000.

If you don't count the boat, because I want that sold,

you're going to pay off everything else.

Okay.

And so you're going to have $5,000 left.

And you guys together are going to have a goal, I would say, to save up probably, I don't know, $26,000, $27,000 for an emergency fund.

And you're going to, that's your next goal together, Katie, is to work to buff up that emergency fund.

Okay.

And that's going to take you guys, you know, maybe the next eight, nine months, ten months to do all of that for that emergency fund.

But together, that's going to be your goal for 2025.

Together, doing this, getting rid of the payments.

We're done with payments, and now you're going to have your full income to be putting towards this emergency fund.

What's that?

5,000 left.

What did you say?

5,000 left.

Yeah.

I would have 5,000 left, so I'm paying off my my two credit cards.

Yes.

I'm paying off my car.

Yes.

Selling the boat.

Mm-hmm.

And you suggested paying off the truck?

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Oh, gosh.

That's scary.

Is it scary because of what's going to be left, the $5,000?

Or is it scary that you're paying off his debt?

That's scary.

You know what might make it less scary if I were you?

I'd calculate up all the monthly payments.

I'd calculate what you're paying in car payments, what you're paying in credit card payments, what he's paying in credit card payments, what he's paying in boat payments, and what you're paying in truck payments.

Add up all that money.

And when you see that, that you're going to have that back every single month, I think that's going to make you feel less scared.

Because that's a lot, that's a hefty chunk.

You have a lot of your income, Katie, leaving.

And a lot of it's going to be coming back to you.

And you'll be able to build this emergency fund up back very, very quickly.

And then beyond that, you can start investing.

Hold on, stay on the line, Katie.

And Emily's going to pick up, and we're going to put you guys through Financial Peace University.

It's our nine-lesson course and give you every dollar premium.

So when you guys start looking at numbers today, you can start building out your first budgets.

Thanks for the call, Katie.

We're cheering you guys on.

So, just imagine you look up a year from now, and everything that you wanted to accomplish, you accomplish.

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That's why we are so excited about about the new 2025 Ramsey Goal Planner.

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So go to ramseysolutions.com/slash store or click the link in the description if you're watching on YouTube or listening on podcast.

Up next, we have Vanessa in Seattle.

Hey, Vanessa, welcome to the show.

Hey, thank you for taking my call.

Absolutely.

Okay, so I'm just going to dive right in.

So I'm a 54-year-old woman.

I live in the Seattle area.

I am not working right now.

I'm at the tail end of a bankruptcy.

I was married, and I got,

there was just too much debt.

I couldn't, there was no way that I could get out of that.

I did file a bankruptcy.

It just discharged.

And

so there's that, having, you know, just starting over with credit.

I am not going to have a place to live as of December, the end of December.

The owners of the home that I've been living in have decided to sell.

And it's been an absolute shock because my ex-husband completely remodeled the inside, and I thought for sure, you know, I'd have some time here.

Oh, wow.

Gosh, you've had a lot, Vanessa.

I have a lot going on in my

divorce and the bankruptcy and a living situation that's up in the air.

And you said your ex-husband remodeled the inside of the rental house?

He did.

Of a rental.

Yeah.

We know we're living there together.

We were for four months, and then he moved out.

It was an abusive marriage.

So it took me a long time to get out of that, but I did.

I'm so proud of you.

Yeah.

Exactly.

Thank you.

I appreciate that.

I was making anywhere between $15,000 and $18,000 with an eBay business while I was married.

He was the primary,

you know, he had the job.

He was bringing in very good money.

But we were renting in the previous house we were at for nine years.

So

this is my third marriage.

I just want to say that if I knew that I was going to be here, I would already have a house, but it just didn't work out that way.

So

what are you doing right now, Vanessa, for

how are you paying your rent right now?

How are you paying for expenses?

Well, I was living off my savings, and then I lost, on top of everything, I lost my daughter.

It was very sudden.

She died.

She was 26.

I'm sorry.

I know.

There's so much going on.

So that just killed me.

I mean, it was so hard, so horrible, you know, and there's nothing like losing a child.

It's horrible.

I can't even imagine.

So it's been hard, you know, to work,

to concentrate on eBay, to do anything, really.

I mean, it's just completely, I was debilitated and just from everything.

So did you get anything

out of the divorce?

I did, and I've been living on that for the last three years.

Let's see.

So I was receiving maintenance, and then I had about $50,000 saved.

What's that down to now?

It's down to zero.

However, there is some good news.

I just just inherited $30,000.

Okay.

So I need to know what to do with my $30,000.

I don't have any debt other than the car payment.

I have a car payment that's $300 a month.

And how much do you owe on the car?

What's the total amount you owe on the car?

I owe about $18,000 on that.

Okay.

So $18,000 to $20,000.

It might be about $20,000 with a payoff.

Fine.

Okay.

But if I take that, yeah,

let us give you some help here.

And real quick, we just give me a quick timeline.

These are big things that have happened.

will you just kind of walk me through really quickly really quickly when the divorce happened the loss of your daughter and the bankruptcy when when did all this play out

okay so the bankruptcy was um it just discharged so that was 90 days it's been about four months total with that okay um losing my daughter happened um it was last january so it's been a it's been a year and a half okay okay

and my divorce um we separated after we moved into this home which was november of 2021 so he moved out in april of 2022.

okay so since then i have been living off of what i have what i got what i received from that that's good i just want to know because i mean these are like three very traumatic things that have occurred so i just didn't know how timeline wise um because i think for you vanessa this um i mean you're you're the biggest glaring lights that i see is is the income side um of not because what as you experience with the fifty thousand if you continue to live on savings and you're not you know replacing that with other income it eventually dwindles and that's what you've experienced and so making sure that this thirty thousand dollars does not dwindle and the only way to really do that is to be able to be bringing in some income um which i know is so

sorry No, you're good.

Go ahead.

Okay.

So I've been working on my master's degree.

I was busy with that in art history.

Now, what I'm going to do with that, I have no idea.

I mean,

what are you going to art history?

Yeah.

Because I love I just love it.

I love architecture, art.

What did you plan to do with it when you got it?

And yeah, that and how are you paying for it?

I don't know.

May maybe teach.

I was paying for my

my

education as I went.

So I still have some I have some loans.

I think

I'm not sure exactly.

Yeah, I have student loans.

I wasn't able to file.

You can't file on those.

No, you can't.

I was not able to.

Okay, so let's get...

We got to get organized and we got to get a game plan going forward.

Right now is not the time to keep taking those classes because you can't afford to pay for them.

And you still have some existing student loan debt, it sounds like you've got the $18,000 for this car.

What I believe your homework should be, and I think Rachel would probably agree, is first things first is you got to get a job.

Yeah, and a job.

And this is, and, you know, this is target, Vanessa.

I mean, this is making 18 an hour at Walmart.

I mean, this is truly doing what you can because the decisions so far are not panning out in reality for you, right?

An art history degree.

Well, I'm going to go get a master's, but I don't know what I want to do with it, right?

So I want to make sure the ROI on your time is realistic.

And so being able just to get something in, I think it'll be good for you, Vanessa.

I think there's going to be a level of dignity and confidence of you going and earning your own money

that's going to be huge.

So for the time being, I mean, it would be tomorrow I would be out and just retail

and whatever you can just to be getting an income in.

And then eventually figuring out what does Vanessa want to do?

And what can Vanessa do to support herself and be able to, you know, advance throughout life?

You know, you're in your 50s and there's, you know, there's still a great

life to live.

And I want you to be able to do that.

But the steps would be number one, finding a job tomorrow, any job.

And I would be, I would be working like crazy.

I think my goal would would be not to touch the 30,000.

That would be the goal.

And I think selling the car is probably

because you don't need an $18,000 car, Vanessa.

You need a $6,000 car.

And then, third, I'd say

you know that the time is coming where you won't be living in this house anymore.

So let's start doing research on a place that we can live that's less expensive, possibly, right?

A video apartment, maybe just tiny.

I mean, anything, again, it's going to be uncomfortable for a little bit, but I think making some of these wiser, more conservative decisions is going to give you some bandwidth and some margin.

You need it.

Yes.

The car might be a little bit tricky.

And the reason is because I kept that through the bankruptcy and then just negotiated the interest rate.

So if I let that go, then it's going to hit my credit, which I want squeezing clean from here forward.

Possibly, yeah,

I probably could sell it.

Yeah.

That's what we're talking about.

We're talking about you looking on Kelly Blue Book and seeing what it's worth, and then you selling it and buying something cheaper in cash, not a payment.

Yep, that's right.

Okay, Vanessa, that's a lot.

Why don't you hang on the line?

Christian will pick up and we'll get you with a Ramsey coach to help you.

Well, if you're listening on radio, keep on listening.

But if you're on YouTube or podcasts, make sure to go download the Ramsey Show app to get the third hour there.

Thanks to everyone in the booth.

Thank you, Jade Warshaw, and we will see you soon, America.

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships.

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Give us a call.

Up first, we have John in Houston.

Hey, John, welcome to the show.

Hello, welcome.

Thanks for having me, I guess.

Absolutely.

Yes, for sure.

How can we help?

Well, I filed for divorce for my wife about a month ago.

Lots have transpired since.

We're kind of trying to maybe make it work, going to marriage counseling.

In the interim of all this, we kind of split our finances about two or three months ago due to her spending and daughter.

That's a long story.

So fast forward to this

last week, I got a bonus from Mark, a $30,000 bonus.

By the time it was put in the bank, it was about $24,000.

I currently owe $11,000 on a credit card.

Most of that is for the divorce attorney.

And then the other issue I have is I have, during COVID, we had two credit cards with Chase that we quit paying because we lost our jobs and obviously employed now, but there's a lawsuit pending against me and those are about $26,000 each.

So I don't know what to do with this bonus money.

One, I don't know if I should tell the wife or not because we're not divorced.

We're trying to work.

That's part of it.

But the other part is, do I keep the cash and try to settle with Chase?

Do I pay off the current credit card that I have so I can be back to debt-free, sort of-ish, other than my home.

Just not real sure.

Sure, yeah, absolutely.

What any other money saved?

I have just a couple thousand dollars in the bank.

Nothing major.

Okay, okay.

By a couple, like six or like two?

Like two.

Okay.

Yes, two.

So the bonus is $3,000, yes?

No.

No, the bonus is $24,000.

$24,000.

My hearing is off today.

Okay.

So

what do you think you can settle these chase cards cards for?

Have you kind of floated it out there to them?

I talked to the debt attorney that I filed the lawsuits.

He said they may be a 25,000 or a 25% reduction.

Yeah.

So he's thinking they could probably settle for about 20,000 each.

That'd be a total of 40.

Okay.

So they're two separate cases.

So I don't, one's coming up the first of September and the other one I don't have a date on yet.

Okay.

So the one coming up the first of September, if you can settle it, I think there's part of this since it's it's already like gone to court, like it's already

progressed to the point where you're going to have to pay something.

I do think there's a smart part that would hold on to that money and not put it on the other $11,000 debt because you know this is coming and you know you're going to be on the hook for paying, whether it's the full sum or, you know, a reduced amount.

Okay.

So, yeah, so and then I guess

go ahead.

Well, I was going to say, yes.

So, um, and anything, obviously, you get in that lawsuit, have in writing.

And I, and I would tell them, hey, I have $24,000.

Well, I guess there are separate lawsuits, you were saying.

Correct.

Okay.

Yep.

So I think getting them down as much as possible, obviously, would be the goal.

And ideally, not going into collections and all of that, that you want to just take care of it.

Absolutely.

And if that's the case, then yeah, you have 4,000.

When does the other lawsuit hit?

This one's September.

Do you know when the other one will be?

I don't know.

I don't know.

I mean, they've already kind of hit.

This is obviously progressive.

So now now it's like going to the trial thing and all this other stuff where I'm going to have to pay Chase.

It's already been on my credit.

All that stuff's already kind of happened.

How long is this going?

Oh, sorry.

Was it all under your name or is your ex or I guess she's not your ex, is your wife's name attached to this as well?

No, they were all mine.

They were cards that I had prior to our marriage.

And we've always done good.

And then we spent a bunch of money and then we tried to get out of debt and then we were doing okay.

And then COVID hit.

We both literally lost our jobs within a week.

And it was pay mortgage mortgage and feed our children or pay this credit card.

Well, we chose a home and children.

As you should.

Yeah.

How much are you making a year, John?

I bring in my base salary is $104,000, and my bonuses are in the $60,000 to $80,000 range annually.

Okay.

And with her,

what does she make?

It varies.

We own a small business, a food truck business, so she brings in roughly,

I would say, $760,000 a year.

Okay.

And considering you guys are somewhat separated, I don't know if it's through legal means or not.

Have you guys separated your finances?

Yes, we did that about two or three months prior, and that was kind of her like final straw for us.

But her spending was really the issue for me.

Okay.

So these three accounts, are these the only debts that you're on the hook for?

Is there a car?

Is there anything else?

Because

there is a Cadillac

that we purchased together.

That's her car, not my car.

So in the divorce, she would get the car.

Okay.

Kind of the thing.

She would get the car paid.

I have a truck.

It's paid for.

Other than if we were divorced today, the only debt I would have would be the two chase and the $11,000 credit card.

Okay.

But you're making, you know, on a good year, $180,000 plus a year.

Yeah.

Correct.

So, I mean, when I look at these debts and knowing that one of them is going to be settled, you should have this knocked out like lickety split.

What's this?

What's your living situation?

Currently living is she moved out Thursday.

So literally just two days ago, she moved out.

She's living with a friend and her two kids, and I'm living in my house with my two kids.

And what's her

second marriage then for both of you?

Yes.

Okay.

And are you able to cover the mortgage in a way that it's no more than 25% of your take-home without her income added to it?

Mortgage is $3,000 a month, so that's not a problem.

Okay.

that's great.

Yep.

So,

yeah, so to answer your question of why you called in, for sure,

I would take the one that had the lawsuit attached to it, go ahead and knock that out.

And then, like Jade's saying, I mean, I would cut back on everything until you get this mess cleaned up.

And then I think you do have this kind of fresh start.

But I also

am cheering on for you guys, you know, that possibly I heard a little bit of hope there at the beginning of the call.

Yeah.

That you guys can, yeah, I think you do some work, do some counseling therapy.

And I pray that it is reconciled.

I think that's always the best hope for this.

We never want to see

marriages torn apart.

And he said part of it was because of her spending, but we do see money issues play into that.

But always, you guys remember that those money issues usually is an indicator of something else going on underneath.

And that's why having

professionals on your side to really dig in to know why.

I mean, we are complex people, and the way we, whether it's Medicaid or whatever it may be, our habits come out sideways.

And when you can get to the root of that, of who you are as a person, that's really a beautiful thing.

So, John, we're cheering you guys on.

I really do hope that there's reconciliation.

But just from the money standpoint on your side,

I think you can have a lot of this cleaned up really quickly.

So, I'm thankful you got got back on your feet job-wise since COVID, because I know that was a pain point for a lot of people.

Absolutely.

No, I feel like today, Rachel, we saw a big theme of divorce, which is tough and it's so difficult, but I think it just drives home the point even more.

Like, I've heard Dave say it, marriages need maintenance.

Like, you need that regular, the same way you bring your car in for a checkup, you go to the doctor for a physical every year.

Like, you need a regular rhythm of let's go see a counselor.

Like, let's just make sure everything's good.

And let's make sure, you know, premarital counsel, like all those things that are checks and balances to make sure that you're operating at an optimal,

safe level

in your marriage.

Yep, and we have Dr.

John Deloney here on our team, you guys.

So check out his content and books because it's kind of in this whole realm of life.

This is The Ramsey Show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show.

Up next, we have Kashim in Portland, Oregon.

Hi, welcome to the show.

Hi, Rachel.

Thank you so much for taking the call.

Yes, absolutely.

How can we help?

appreciate it.

Been watching Dave Ramsey for the longest time, and I love the show and everything that Dave does, and you as well.

Thank you.

My question is,

we make good money.

My brother and I, we run an assisted living,

and we have paid off all our consumer debt, no call loans, no student loans.

We have invested into real estate and we have about six properties.

But for some reason, you know, it still feels like we are

paycheck to paycheck because everything that we make, we

invested back into

real estate.

And then I was wondering, should we maybe stop investing and start paying off like we did with our consumer debt, the card and student loans, pay off these properties?

And then once

all of those properties are paid off, then maybe start investing again with the cash that we would have.

Okay.

How much are you guys making a year, income-wise, for you?

Together, we make probably about $400,000.

Okay, so do you take $200,000 and he takes $200,000?

Yes.

Okay.

And how much debt is on the six properties total?

It's about

$2.5 million.

Okay.

And also,

sorry, one more thing.

We have 401k, and I know

also we've been investing in 401k for the past two years.

So we're thinking maybe we need to stop that.

We do the MAC.

We maxed it out for the past two years for both of us.

What's your full-time job?

So we're running

the assistant living.

It's our own business.

Yes, okay.

That's right.

You said that.

Okay.

So

just to clarify, all of it together, the income from the assisted living, the income from the properties is the 400,000, right?

Not just the properties.

Correct.

Okay.

So could you, I mean, I'm thinking, you know, to relieve some of the pressure, because you said you feel like you're still living paycheck to paycheck and, you know, making 200 grand.

If you're, yeah, if you're making mortgage payments, do you have renters and all the six?

We do.

Yeah, the properties are all cash flowing.

But I mean, whatever we make in the business, save it up, and then we just go and buy another property.

Yeah, so I would, I would, yep.

So I would pause, maybe even go a step or two backwards, possibly, just to give you some breathing room.

So instead of going and continuing to invest in these properties and taking leverage out on all of them, that's what's causing you to feel so tied down or right, like with no margin.

So I would take some of the that income, throw it at some of these properties to pay it off faster, and I would cash flow it.

So that may even mean Kashim to

list out the six and say, hey, maybe we sell two.

The equity from the two could help pay for, you know, pay down some of the other three and our cash flow.

Cause, you know, we don't mind having real estate.

I think it's a great opportunity, but when you are leveraged in it and you continue to leveraging in it, it's going to eventually eat up your income, right?

Because it's not going to be perfect.

But having that paid for income, when the income comes in from the rentals and it's all yours, then suddenly you feel like, oh, we're making the money that I feel like we should be making, right?

I mean, you have $2.5 million worth of rental properties.

You should feel like we're doing really good, but

it's not working out that way.

No, yeah, it seems like, you know, on the paper, we have a lot, but then, you know, kind of cash broke.

Yep.

So, yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

So I would, I would free free up.

I would be okay with you keeping a couple of them, you know, knowing that, hey, we're going to, we're going to snowball this and pay them off quickly.

Because did you guys get them a few years ago or have you gotten them recently?

A few years ago, we started back in like 2022.

And then the last one we just purchased this year.

Yep.

So I would stop purchasing.

And again,

I would sell a couple of them, but I would list them out and say, hey, here's what they're worth.

Here's what we owe on them.

What's smart to do this?

And are you doing this all with your brother?

Yes.

Okay.

Are both of your names on the notes?

Yes.

Okay.

So would that be something that he's willing to do as well?

Yes, actually, he's sitting here and listening too.

We started together.

We're doing things

together.

And actually, he's the one that got.

on the phone and

calling to the show actually.

Okay.

Okay.

Well, we have a little bit of time, Kashima.

I would be interested.

Do you have the numbers off the top of your head of what each property is worth and how much you owe on them?

Yes, I can look it up here in a second.

And also,

what I was going to say.

And regarding the 401k, should we keep investing into that 401k?

Yes, I would.

No, as you said, positive.

Yeah, no, I would.

Yeah, I would keep going.

Because

that's going to be consistent.

Yep.

Did you say you wanted the

one by one?

Okay.

So first one is condo.

We owe $150.

Then another one is a house.

What's the one that's one before you go?

The one that's $150, what could you sell it for?

Probably like $250, $260.

Okay.

Perfect.

Keep going.

And then another one is is we owe $230.

That one is about $410, $420 right now.

Okay.

Okay.

And then we have a candle.

We owe $450.

And that one is about $600.

Okay.

Okay.

And then we have another candle or a duplex.

Duplex.

We owe $340.

And that one is like $500.

Okay.

And then...

We have our primary houses, but not the windows anymore.

Okay, that was the two part of it.

Now, on the primary mortgages, you are the only person on your mortgage, and he's the only person on his mortgage, right?

Correct.

Okay.

So, I mean, Rachel, I know what I'm thinking right off the bat.

Yeah, I mean, I'm probably, you know, and again, you can rearrange some of these.

I would take the ones that are probably in better condition, less hassle, ones that are in better part of the city that you can rent out that's more stable.

But you could sell two of these, you know,

rearrange some of the numbers because she even have two paid-for properties there.

And I would, and I'm, I know you and your brother are doing this together, but my advice, you probably won't take it because she misses to do it, you know, individually.

I think when you have a partner in all of this and you both own it, it can get really messy really fast.

But that's just my two cents.

But, well, there's part of that because here's the thing: if you were in this deal alone, my first thing would be like, Hey, okay, for instance, property number three, it's a duplex.

I don't know what side of town it's in, but I'm thinking, okay, it's more work to rent it out.

It's two places, um, and you owe the most on it, and the gain is pretty decent so i'm like okay i'd probably go for that one first just based on little knowledge here but i'd want to then take that money and pay off my personal residence before i reach over and do properties but since you're in this with your brother it doesn't necessarily work that way so that's kind of just one of the ways that it muddies the water a little bit on this but that being said you could still reach over you could pay off the one property number two probably if you made that sale and then property number four if you sold it and you cleared out property number one there's a lot of options there's a lot of options yeah so um yeah i think you could make one or two moves here and i think what that would do again is if you have two paid-for properties you're getting rental income and then you and your wife say hey our next goal is to pay off our primary home because how much do you owe on your primary

um about 340.

okay and uh it's worth about 740 it's 740 we bought it back in 2017.

okay that's great yeah so yeah you can go down the steps there or if you want to go real crazy, which I don't think you'll probably will, you could sell everything and put some of this

towards your primary.

But again, I think you and your brother can either sit down and just say, hey, what are the

properties that we're confident in?

And I think you can keep, you know, maybe two of them, sell two, rearrange some of this.

And I think it's going to relieve it because you guys are kind of playing the game.

And Kashim, you guys are smart.

So honestly, at the end of the day, once you have all this kind of cleaned up and you guys are making a better income, then take your time and save.

Because Because some of these, you know, you bought for $150, they're still deals out there.

I mean, you can still go and,

you know, buy some crappy and fix it up, put some money into it, and rent it.

So, that's still a possibility, but just doing it with cash is going to give you less stress, which is what we want for you.

Thanks for the call.

I was sick and tired of being sick and tired, bankrupt with a toddler and a brand new baby at home, scared, doesn't even begin to cover it, but I got mad enough to change.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show.

We're going to the phones and we have Jake in Houston calling next.

Hey, Jake, welcome to the show.

Hi, how are you guys doing today?

We're doing great.

How can we help?

So I have a chronic condition and I'm currently on baby step six,

but I do not have any life insurance for my wife and family.

And I'm having trouble getting life insurance.

And so I'm wondering if...

I should be putting money aside

since I don't have the life insurance option.

Yeah, what's the condition?

Can I ask?

I'd really rather not say that the doctor says I have about 10 more years of working time before I be

really in a critical position.

I'm sorry.

So sorry.

That's great.

Either healed in this life or the next.

Yeah, that's right.

Well, you've put yourself in a really good position with your family.

So kudos to you there.

And I know they're going to be very grateful.

The The fact that you're in baby step six is amazing.

So that tells me that you don't have debt.

You guys have got a significant level of savings, which is nice.

And I'm guessing you've been investing all this time.

Can I ask, like, do you have a nest egg?

We do.

We have a $1.4 million dollar nest egg.

Okay.

Wow,

we

make about $180,000

base pay and then about $150,000 bonuses.

Wow.

So

great income,

but

all of our money is in retirement accounts.

And how old are you and your wife?

I'm 39, and my wife is 42.

Okay.

Do you guys have kids?

I have one child, yes.

Okay.

What is, is she working or is she staying home?

She stays at home.

Okay.

How much do you guys have left on the house to pay off?

$340,000.

$340,000, okay.

And what's your timeline on paying off the house?

When you've talked with your wife, when do you think it'll be done?

About three years if we put all of our excess income towards the house.

Okay.

That'll leave about seven years

where I've got to be totally ready for medical and retirement and everything.

You said you've got seven years until you feel like you need to be totally ready.

Is that what you said?

Ten years total.

I heard if it takes me three years to pay off the house now,

then seven years after that to save for everything else.

Okay.

Will you be able to bring in, I know you said, well, you'll have to stop work in probably two years.

Does that mean physically going to a location or will you still be bringing in an income at that point or probably not?

Stopping work in 10 years.

I'm sorry.

Oh, 10 years.

I thought you said two.

10.

So 10 years.

Oh, okay.

That's way.

I'm happy to hear that.

Okay.

So the good news is, you know,

the first problem was, hey, I don't have life insurance.

But the good news is you're going to be self-insurable.

You and your wife have set your family up in a really, really great way.

Because the thought here is, and I'm not even running any numbers.

I just know that a lump sum is going to double every seven years and the point that you already have 1.4 million.

And then there's this 10-year horizon.

And, you know, you're making over $300,000 a year.

And the house is going to paid off.

You're not going to have a payment in the world.

And so I think that your wife is going to be okay.

what i would do is i'd probably sit down with a smart vestor pro uh because i want to make sure to your point that she's able to access the money she needs even if it's before her being 59 and a half

yeah because i'm thinking if you know

um 10 years from now she will be yeah 52 so there'll be about that seven-year gap but i do wonder um jake because you guys are making such great money do you foresee yourself making around that $300,000, $330,000 a year for the next 10 years, if not going up?

Or do you see it going down at all because of health issues?

It'll continue to go up.

So luckily, I am an engineer.

So

I can work remotely or I have options.

Yeah.

So if you think about it, Jake, if you guys pay off this home in three years, which is what I would do, you would have seven years left of working, of making that amount of money.

You guys could stash away so much just in a high-yield savings account that

you guys can live off of after you stop working for that time that seven-ish years um between retirement age and then once you guys hit that age you'll be able to access yeah i mean like you said it's going to be over three four it'll be four million dollars by that point yeah oh yeah and a smart investor pro is going to help you figure out like that best bridge is it a high yield savings is it a brokerage account is it another vehicle that you're able to get to that money but it can also still have some some gain on it um a decent amount of gain.

Yeah, hey, I hate that this situation is what it is, but you're a great dad and a great husband for setting this up with your family.

Thank you.

Truly.

Yeah.

Wow.

Jake, thank you for calling.

If you stay on the line, Christian is going to pick up and maybe we can

hook you up with a Smart Vestor Pro and we'll help you show you like exactly where to look, get a couple of names so you can call them and kind of just see who you're comfortable with.

But I'm with Jade.

I'm praying nothing.

I pray for healing on this side of heaven for you and your family.

And

I'm so sorry.

And, you know, it's one of those things that when life, there are things we just, we can't control.

You know, health is for sure one of those.

And on this show, we get, we get that call a lot of just, you know, things happen.

And one of the best ways, it doesn't make it better,

but it does bring a level of peace in an area of life is when you have your money under control.

And so that's.

that's.

And when you've set your family up, that worst case scenario,

I know everything's covered.

And I mean, these are the reasons that we teach.

You need a will, you need life insurance, you gotta, you gotta pay off your debt.

You've got, because no one predicts these things.

That's right.

That's right.

Nope.

You know, no one predicts it.

Yeah.

Oh, Jake, we're praying for you and your family.

Thanks.

I'm so glad you called.

I hope that helped.

Up next, we have Ken in Wichita.

Hey, Ken, welcome to the show.

Hey, Rachel, appreciate all that you, your dad, and the Ramsey personalities do.

You guys are a true blessing.

Thank you.

Had a question today, hoping you could pressure test something regarding my pension.

So, my wife and I are FPU grads, debt-free, including the house.

I was laid off about three weeks ago.

I'm 55.

And since

I'll be separating from the company, I can start taking the pension now.

And if I do that and I plug those numbers into Excel, it seems to me like I'd be crazy to not start taking it at 55 versus waiting until 62, even though the numbers are higher because

my calculations show it would be 19 years

for it to catch up if I wait till 62 versus taking it now.

investing it at 8%, like I would assume Dave would say,

it never catches up.

So am I crazy to start taking it at 55 versus waiting until 62?

No,

I don't think you're crazy.

And especially if you do something with that money that helps, you know what I mean, to grow it, right?

So even if you put it somewhere that you're going to be making more than if it sits in that pension, I think that's ideal.

So how are you,

do you guys need it to live off of or you're just thinking because of the math, might as well take it now because we'll be able to get more out of it.

Yeah, totally a math situation.

Obviously,

I've got to go find another job, but we're in good shape on that.

I'm employable and we'll do that.

But just talking to some peers that are in the same situation from this layoff,

they were like, hey, why would you take it now?

But I'm just, I'm an Excel guy, so I want to get in there and then use the investment calculator at 8%.

And I'm just like,

because you're thinking you're going to turn around and

reinvest that money.

Is that what you're thinking?

True, true.

That's the plan.

But even even if you don't,

just the raw numbers, the seven years,

in order to make up that seven years of withdrawals, it would take 19 years and put me at like 81 before

it would catch up if I started taking it at 62.

So I just want to make sure I wasn't missing something.

I know the taxes might be a little bit different when I'm retired, that type of thing.

It just seems like take it now is mathematically the way to go.

And And I've always heard Dave say, you know, the pension, you know, it's not yours until it's yours.

So

that's the thing is.

It's getting in the hopper type test.

That's right.

Yeah.

The good thing about it is it puts you back in control of what you do with it, even if you're going to go back and reinvest it.

And the truth is, too, Ken, you've done such a great job that, I mean, you guys are completely debt-free.

Like,

if you take it now or you take it six years,

you're going to be okay.

You know what I mean?

Like, I don't think you're going to make this dire mistake.

But anytime you can get money, even in a lump sum in some situations, putting it back in your control, you're usually better off than leaving it somewhere else.

So I hope that helps.

Thanks, Ken, for the call.

Our scripture today comes from 1 Timothy 6:18.

Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share.

Shonda Rhimes says, be a doer, not a dreamer.

Good deal.

I appreciate that.

Put some stuff into action, people.

Put some stuff into action.

I know that's right.

All right, going to the phones, we have Sarah and Fort Myers.

Hey, Sarah, welcome to the show.

Hi, ladies.

Thanks so much for taking my call.

Absolutely.

How can we help?

So I'm looking for a bit of direction.

The long story short is, I just found the Ramsey Show on the podcast a couple months ago when I was pregnant.

It was our first child, Yay.

Yay!

Congratulations.

Yeah, thank you.

He's two months old now, and he's absolutely beautiful.

My question is,

when I was six months pregnant, my husband was laid off from his job, which was extremely stressful.

We had a lot of medical complications with my pregnancy, and then with the delivery as well.

And when he was laid off, we ended up having to pay an arm and a leg to extend our insurance policy through the former employer.

So we unfortunately had to burn through what little savings we had to afford that.

And now we're pretty much starting from scratch with a newborn.

And my husband is

really wanting to try to pay off our credit cards and get our debt down.

And I'm trying to decide if we should try to put more money towards our emergency fund, which we don't have now.

I'm going back to work kind of part-time, so I'm trying to decide if I need to go back full-time.

Should we sell one of our cars?

I don't know.

You've got a lot on your mind.

You've got a lot on your mind.

I mean, the good news is you did what we tell people to do when you were pregnant.

You stacked up because you don't know what's going to happen.

And so you went into stork mode and you needed what you saved up.

And so no guilt on that.

You don't need to be feeling bad.

Sometimes people go through their emergency fund and they feel guilty that they used it.

And I'm like, no, that's what it was there for.

And so

you did right.

But now that the storm is over and the baby is here, now you can get back onto the baby steps.

And yeah, it's getting that thousand dollars back saved again.

And, you know, to your husband's point, whatever the smallest debt is, if it's the credit cards, how much debt do you guys have?

Well, we have two car loans.

Altogether, our debt is probably

between 35 and 40 between the two cars and then some credit card and then, of course, the medical.

So

tell me the real numbers so we can really see.

Yeah, so on his car,

we owe about

$14,000.

My car, we owe about $21,000, I believe.

$21.

His car, just, yeah, $21,000.

We just started having some mechanical issues with his car, so we were considering selling that because it is worth right about what we owe on it.

So we thought about going down to one car,

which we could do.

It would be a challenge, but we could do it.

I love that.

With the baby, it's a little tricky, but um we could try to find a way the hard part is my husband's job he's he's really not loving it he's exhausted emotionally from the pregnancy and all the medical stuff that i went through he

sorry he was really scared it was a lot to handle and now um

he's considering changing careers because he just he's he absolutely hates the field that he's in.

So we're on this little bit instability storm right now.

I would say the idea of

cash is

I would press pause for a second because you guys have just come through a unknown difficult season, right?

It was the layoff, then the baby came, then there was no insurance.

So there's part of this where I would love to create just a quick sense of like, we're getting our bearings, we've got our bearings before we add another big change into the mix.

Because

that would have mean he just got this new job, right?

Yeah,

we've only just been on the insurance this month for the new place.

Yeah, he's only been there that he had to wait like 90 days or something.

And don't get me wrong, like I'm all for happy.

I'm all for people being happy in their work, but we need to just cool out for a second.

Like, let's get this baby home.

Let's get our heads around what the financial picture is.

And then that can decide what we need to do going forward because,

and I mean,

I get it.

Everybody wants to be happy at work, but there could be a period of time where he's like, I'm doing this because I need to do this to get the family on good footing.

And then I'll be able to go and pursue more of what I want to do.

So the 14,000 car, 21,000 car.

Well, I was going to just add to that, Sarah, that usually when there's some level of like a traumatic experience, which it kind of sounds like y'all walk through, don't make knee-jerk reactions.

And we say this if someone's had a death close to them or,

you know, if something big happens in life that really kind of takes you out emotionally, making big moves in life is not smart.

So waiting before he quits and all of this, like I would, so I echo Jade for sure.

And for you guys, yeah, that because how much is he making now?

He makes about 85, but he's, I'm not so much concerned about him quitting.

He's, he's totally in the mindset of, I need to provide for my family.

I'll do what I have to do.

Yeah.

Plus, he wouldn't quit until he had something else lined up.

Right?

Exactly.

He's afraid that they're going to let him go again.

I think he's got a little bit of PTSD from being laid off previously, which wasn't any fault of his.

But

the company that he's at now, like the new job that was supposed to kind of stabilize,

it's not really a good fit.

What type of work is it?

The way the business is set up, so I'm sorry.

What type of work does he do?

He works in accounting and financial analyst positions, mostly for home builders and construction firms.

And being the numbers guy, he's tracking all the mistakes.

He finds a lot of things that are wrong, and everybody thinks he's the bad guy.

And it's just

kind of the the way that the industry goes, I think.

Okay, well, even more reason then for you guys to really get laser focused on this debt because that's what's creating instability and a lot of risk in your life.

So, aside from the cars, which I love the idea if you can break even on one of these, even if you go and you buy something a lot cheaper in cash, I like that idea if having a one-car family doesn't work.

But back to your initial question, yeah, up until something does happen right now, I think we're operating on a lot of fear and what if.

But the truth is you're home, the baby's healthy, he's got a job, and right now nothing's happening.

So I would say, okay, let's push pause on the baby steps, get that thousand there.

Do you have any more money left in savings above a thousand?

Not really.

Okay, that's fine.

I think he has.

Yeah, he has a Roth I think he set up a few years ago that's got a little bit in it.

No, don't touch that.

I meant liquid savings.

Okay.

No.

So yeah, you're listing on smallest to largest, and you guys are getting on the same page.

You're sitting down tonight and going, okay, we've been through a lot.

It's time for us to make this right.

We've got a family now.

Let's clean up our mess and let's decide that moving forward, we're going to move methodically.

We're going to make decisions together.

We're going to get out of debt.

And

I mean, kudos to you.

Cheers on a brand new life.

Yeah, that's right.

Yeah, it's a mixture.

We're absolutely in love with our baby boy.

He's healthy.

Praise God.

It was a really stressful time getting through all those issues.

So we're thankful.

But we're also trying to find a way to start looking up.

You know, it just seems like one thing after another.

And then the car breaks, you know, and then

the boss doesn't like him or, you know, whatever.

It just seems one thing after another.

So I'm just kind of looking for some peace of mind for a few weeks at least.

For sure.

Yeah, and you'll find too, Sarah, you know, life in general, and then you throw kids in the mix, and this is, it magnifies this too, but it's, if it does, it can feel like seasons of life.

It's like two steps forward, three steps back, one step forward, two steps back.

Oh, my gosh.

And then, and then a rhythm, another season hits, and it's like, wow, this is a peaceful season.

And we're thankful for this.

And then something else happens, right?

I mean, it's just, it is the rhythm of life, and you guys are experiencing that, but in big ways.

I mean, kids, job, I mean, these are big adult things, right?

That you are, that you feel.

So I think getting some control around the money, I think is going to give you a level of peace.

Even if the debt is still there, just being on the same page with your husband, knowing here's how much we're spending on groceries, here's what, like, there's just a plan in place.

And it allows you to pour that energy into something.

Yes, that's right.

Into something else.

Yep, for sure.

And I do, and I, and we hear you loud and clear.

And I think a goal would eventually be for him to be in a great environment working.

Yeah.

You don't want to work for a jerk, you know, for so long.

So

we're all about that too.

Yeah.

So great.

Well, thanks for the call, Sarah.

We really appreciate it.

Thanks to all the gentlemen in the booth.

Thank you, Jade, to being great co-hosts.

And thank you, America, for listening.

Remember to take control of your money and create a life you love.