Your Overspending Will Eventually Catch Up With You

Hey guys, it's James Childs, producer of The Ramsey Show.

This week, Dave and the personalities are living it up on The Ramsey Cruise, so we've

put together a compilation of some of our favorite calls and segments from the last year.

Regular shows are back next week.

Hope you enjoy.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Jade Warshaw.
I'm joined today by bestselling author Rachel Cruz. Thank you for being here with me today, Rachel.
So great, Jade. It's been a good show.
It sure is. All hour, we're going to be taking calls about your life and your money.
So give us a call. The number is 888-825-5225.
We'll take your call and we will give you our best shot at advice. I think we do a pretty good job, but I guess at the end of the day, it's up to you.
So let's go straight to the phone lines where we've got Jason from San Jose, California. What's going on, Jason? All right.
Thanks for taking my call. The problem that we're having is my wife and I can't decide if we're in baby steps three, four, five or six.
And we seem to be moving in and out of those baby steps. Okay.
Tell me more. Well, we make about $320,000 as our household income.
We've got two mortgages, one on our primary home, with about $220,000 left to pay on it. Then we have a rental property that we break even on every month, and we've got about $300,000 left on that.
We both save for our retirement. And we max that out every year to, to get the matching contributions.
I have ESPP along with other investments that I, that I place. And then we have college funds for our kids.
And the issue is I manage. So my wife manages all the month to month, you know, daily checking operations, and she wants to have the six month savings in, you know, in a savings account tied to the checking account.
And I keep explaining to her and showing her that, hey, we've got all this money elsewhere, you know, money market funds and, you know, stocks and, you know, the money market about a hundred money market? The money market has about $100,000 in there. Okay.
Would you say that that's more than six months of expenses? Oh, yeah, definitely. Okay.
And so you're saying she wants money on top of that. It sounds like she just wants a little slush fund so that if you go over a budget, it's all good, right? No, because we do use the money app, and that's working out well.
She just wants to have access to it. Yeah.
Well, I don't know if it's, yeah, I don't know if it's much access. I just wonder, Jason, because in your head, yeah, there's money there, but it's kind of attributed to whatever may be needed.
And I think for her, there could be a level of safety of saying, hey, we're going to open up a new account in this money market account, and we're labeling it the emergency fund, and we're going to have six months in there, and that's it. And that's what it's titled, that's what it's labeled, and that's what it is, and nothing else.
Because when you start to say, because I could even feel that, like, yeah, there's money here or there, and there's some stocks, and it's like, okay, but how can I get to it if we really need it? I think it's more of a security thing for her. And I think that level of organization too is really healthy and good.
And so what you could do, Jason, seriously, and this is what we tell people for your emergency fund, it's its own account. It's over here.
You don't touch it unless you need it, but it's designated specifically for that. And would that help her? Do you think, if you just say, yeah, we're going to take some of this $100,000, have another account, we're not touching it, but it's here if we need it? I think it would, but the question is, you know, the follow-up question to that is, do we stop the baby steps four, five, and six? No, because you have $100,000.
You have the money in that money market account. That $100,000 could be it.
Oh, I see. Is it just because it's the same place where all of your retirement is and where all your investing is? Is that why she's not viewing it as an emergency fund? That's right, yeah.
And we've had issues come up. Like last year in the rental, we had a flood that we had to deal with.
And we went into one of the accounts. We pulled the money out, we paid cash, there was no issue.
Yeah, because it's accessible. Yeah.
But then did you go back and replenish that? Because in her head, she's like, Oh, my gosh, we've used that. Is it here? I don't know.
I can see what she's saying. Because that's how I am.
Like we have a high yield savings account, Jason, my husband and I. And so we'll put extra savings every month in this fund.
But underneath it, like when I go into ally.com, we have one line that says like savings. We have one line that says emergency fund with that amount of money.
And I need those separate. Like I need to know there's this, there's this here and we don't touch that.
But everything else is just extra savings on top of what we need. You know, if something happens at a rental, if we need, if we're going on a trip or something, like here's money we spend, here's money we just don't touch.
And it's here just in case crap hits the fan. And that feels good to me with the distinction.
Like even Jason, this may sound crazy, even to the point that I'm like, if we're talking about money, I'm like, well, babe, how much is in the, is in the high yield? He'll give me the number. And I'm always like, does that count the emergency fund? Are you adding those together? And he's like, no, I'd never add them together for your sanity and i'm like thank you so so you don't think we should slow down on on paying off mortgage early no you have the money you have the money so i would take that what that i would take part of that hundred thousand that you have in cash or somewhere else i don't care where you get it and get a six-month emergency fund in a new account and labeled emergency.
And I think that will ease her her tension. I really do.
I think that would be that's what I would do. That's what I would want personally.
I just want to make sure we're covering this because the screen says we can't save up an emergency fund. And is there something we're missing here? Is it just as simple as relabeling this money? Yeah, it is.
It's because she wants, you know, in the regular checking savings account that are, you know, in the day to day operations, she wants to see the savings account be the six months. She is wrong about that.
She is wrong about that. If we want to do that, then we've got to stop, you know, we've got to stop on the, you know, the extra mortgage payments we're making.
We've got to stop on the 401k payment. We've got to, you know, we've got to stop those other baby steps to rebuild that, that six month savings.
Well, I think you're, I think you, but I think you guys both have a place where you need to concede a little bit because to her, what she wants is I wouldn't keep the emergency fund with the normal checking. And, you know, like we have, um, we have ally where we do all of our savings and then we have like chase over here that has,.
And so I wouldn't keep it with your normal day-to-day funds. But to your point, I mean, we recommend all the time.
You can keep it in a money market or you can keep it in a high-yield savings account. So whatever feels right.
But to Rachel's point, you do have that money. And so I think that you guys both have to give a little and take a little.
You have to be willing to pull it out of a money market because for whatever reason that's making her feel some type of way and then she's got to be fine with you putting it in someplace else that has a nice rate of return. You know, Ally's a great one.
We used to say back when cash was like the prevalent thing of the emergency fund and it would be like, you know, don't put it in the sock drawer where the pizza guy can get it. That's right.
Like kind of that joke that like it can't be so accessible that you just go and you can just get it you know you want to forget about it yes you know we feel really blessed because we don't argue about this this is just like you never argue about money we don't have to yeah like what's the best approach you know yes yeah i think i think for her to know she can get access to it if you guys need it for an emergency number one and number two for her just peace of mind that there's extra money over here it's for this it's not going to get tied up in some stock deal that you're doing jason here that right like it's like there's a level of like that's for the emergency fund and we don't touch it and i think okay now one one quick question now do you pay off your primary first or your rentals primary primary okay i want the place where you guys lay your head at night to be completely debt-free and peaceful. Perfect.
Awesome. Thank you so much.
Thank you for the call. That's a really, you know, that's an interesting thing, Rachel, because I do think that when it comes to savings, you know, you do have to keep it a little bit.
It's got to be enough out of reach to where you don't quote accidentally spend it. But at the same time, it's got to be liquid enough to where if the water heater goes out and you can't cash flow it you can get to it so you don't want to invest it and you made a good point earlier that and I don't think this was her I'm from what he was saying but you also don't want to have a bunch of money so that you can be lazy with your budgeting and you spend more than you make but it's okay because we got 10 grand over here we'll just get just get it.
Don't let it be a cushion for your everyday expenses.

It's a cushion between you and life when the big stuff happens.

That's your emergency fund, not to cover lifestyle.

That's right.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. We are taking your calls at 888-825-5225.
I'm Rachel Cruz, hosting with Jade Warshaw. And we're going to go to Brandon in Columbus, Ohio.
Hey, Brandon. Welcome to the show.
Hey, how are you doing today? We're doing great. How can we help? So the reason I'm calling is I can't seem to build any kind of wealth whatsoever.

What's happening?

Tell us more.

Well, you know, I got three boys and I got a wife that stays at home and I'm the only income.

But I think I make okay money.

But every time I try to build some wealth, you like something happens with the kids or yeah something on that one tell us about your income what are you making every year well I'm a union electrician okay so I make about 15 28 if I work on Saturdays okay I usually work usually work Saturdays. So every month, if you look at your budget, how much is on that top item? My budget, it takes about $4,800 and some change maybe.
Okay. Is that what you're bringing in? $4,800.
Income-wise, that's what you're bringing in? Income-wise, I'm bringing in maybe about $6,000. Okay, so $6,000.
Okay, and then do you guys have debt? Well, you know, I got my Jeep, and my old lady has her van. Is that on payments? I wish it wasn't, but it is.
Yeah, that's fine. How much do you guys owe on yours? Well, my Jeep, I got maybe $8,000 left.
And on her van, we just had to get. So it's around $22,000.
Okay. You said you just got it? Yeah, we just got it maybe about a week ago.
How much are your car payments on those, both of those? Well, that's where it's eating me. Yeah, I bet.
On my Jeep, I'm paying about $4. On her van, I'm paying around $6.
Ooh, I bet you. Yeah, it's $1,000.
Okay, what else? So you got the Jeep, the van. What else do you have? Are there credit cards? Do you have any other loans?

No, I really don't have loans. I mean, we got groceries and we got rent.
Okay, so that's fine. Those are fixed expenses on your budget, but do you have any other debt, which is a lump sum of money that you owe? I mean

maybe when I was younger

I'll just keep it easy I'd probably say

maybe about 10 grand maybe what would it be in credit cards no it'd probably be a little bit of hospital and maybe uh miscellaneous i'm sorry i'm kind of lost that's okay brandon how old are your kids I got a 10-year-old. I'm sorry.
I'm kind of lost. Brandon, how old are your kids? I got a 10 year old.
I got a six year old and I got a one about to be two year old. Okay, perfect.
Okay. So here's the thing.
I think you're having a hard time building wealth because your biggest wealth building tool is your income. And right now, a thousand dollars of your income is going, or maybe a little bit more, is going towards your debt payments every single month.
And it sounds like, I'm not sure, but it sounds like maybe you're trying to do a little of this, a little of that, a little of that over here. And the method that we teach you is going to give you focused intensity on one area at a time for the most part.
So do you have any money saved? That's the problem. I don't.
I can't seem to save a dollar. Okay.
So let's go back to the essentials here. I think the first thing here is the budget.
You told me that out of $6,000 a month, it takes $4,800 to run your household. So that means somewhere along the way, there's $1,200 left if you're doing your budget correct.
Right. But you just said you can't find a dollar.
So something about that budget isn't adding up. So let's kind of let Rachel and I give you a quick crash course with the budget.
Yeah, because the thing is with the budget, Brandon, it needs to be realistic. So you keep saying, you know, which I get.
Jade has kids. I have kids I have little kids so stuff does come up you know when you're a family and there's multiple people you're keeping afloat um so either you need to redo the budget and say okay realistically we need a kid's line item because stuff is going to come up every month that we have to pay school fees like whatever it may be sports yep that we're going to put in um and then there also may be brandon a you know a time that you and your wife sit down and you say okay we're going to limit this budget and just because we feel like you know the kids need x y and z we may tell them no right now um because your goal is going to be to get out of debt and so that budget is really really, really key.
And tightening up that budget is going to be huge.

So that's going to automatically

probably give you some of that breathing room

of that $1,200 that we don't, you know,

it kind of just disappears.

The next piece of this I would do,

okay, so Rachel's telling you to tighten up the budget.

Yeah, and you have a lot of car.

Yeah.

Is that what you're going next?

Yeah, you just bought this car for $22,000. 600 payment and a month brandon sell it sell it yeah because and we always say not to have anything with wheels and motors that is more than half of your annual income and you guys are right over that i mean you're making 60 yeah and i mean you guys are you're you're you're close to that you're at 30 i mean like that's so you're it's too much you have too much car and I think you're feeling that Brandon you're feeling that and so looking to say okay what are our options what can we do that is different and it's probably going to be selling that van and yeah and that's going to take so let's put this in the timeline so the first thing you're doing what Rachel said you're getting on your budget you're getting a realistic budget you're figuring out what can we cut so that this 1200 is actually a reality and it's you and your wife agreeing to that because you need that money so you can save up a little bit to get out of this car and get into a car that you can afford because no more car no more car payments right so you need at least five six thousand dollars to make this thing happen at least right so we're getting out of this car and then after that it's okay we freed up six hundred dollars we can breathe a little bit and maybe it's you picking up a side hustle your wife she's got the two-year-old at home but there's you know at least it's one at home and not the others and so what can she do to bring an extra income from this point on, it really is you guys deciding how quickly you clean up this mess by deciding how much more money comes in because the ultimate goal is building wealth.
The debt is standing in the way that you clear out the debt and then you get yourself that emergency fund of three to six months saved. Now you're gonna feel peace about day-to-day life, right? So if an emergency hits you, you're fine.

And now you can actually start building wealth.

You can start investing into your 401k if you have it.

Start investing into a Roth IRA as an option.

But we've got to get through baby steps one through three first. Brandon, have you looked into other small businesses in your area and what they're paying for electricians?

I just wonder, even if you switch out of the union union if you could find a better gig that pays more well um I mean I've I mean I've done I did solar for seven years and you know I I have a little LLC with that but um I mean and realistically until I hit a journeyman's card you know i'm not really there's really nothing out there that's maybe paying more i mean it may be a dollar it may be two dollars but nothing like jumping up another 10 to 12 000 okay yeah yeah because i was just curious if um you know sometimes in the private sector there's um you know other opportunities uh so I just didn't know if you had explored that because because I think the goal too Brandon is um you know you guys make 60,000 and yes there's a level of intensity during baby steps one through three to kind of get you out of this hole so there will be you know extra work here or there all that but I think the goal is eventually to be able to live off of your income comfortably and enjoy it be able to put some money aside for retirement you know do some of these things to enjoy your life and so if that is not coming to fruition then yeah then that's where a bigger conversation is um and you guys are renting right now right so even home ownership um to be in the picture eventually which i know can probably feels very overwhelming right now to think about, but to be able to get there. But hey, Brandon, I want you to hold on the line because Christian's going to pick up.
And I want to gift you guys Financial Peace University, you and your wife. This is our nine lesson course.
And go through this. And again, it runs the gamut, everything from the budget to getting out of debt, all of it.
And then, you know what? And hold on the line, too. And Christian, we'll throw in some of Ken Coleman's stuff.
He has a great career assessment that would just be interesting, Brandon. And again, being an electrician, making 60 grand, that's fabulous work and wonderful.
But I think people do get to a reality of, okay, how do I sustain my life? And if you can ever make more, that's going to help it without

completely shifting your lifestyle. So just out of curiosity, maybe dig into some of that too,

and see if that kind of triggers anything for you. So thanks for the call, Brandon, you guys got this.
Just stay on track. This is the Ramsey show.
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Equal housing lender. 1749 Mallory Lane, with Jade Warshaw, and we are taking your calls at 888-825-5225.
Up next is Emily in Pensacola. Hey, Emily, welcome to the show.
Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. I appreciate it.
Absolutely. How can we help? Okay, so my husband and I had gone through financial peace, gosh, over a decade ago.
But, you know, life happened and five kids happened. And right now we're back on it, but finishing up baby step number two.
We have no consumer debt, a little bit of student loans left that we expect to be paid off by the end of this year, and then we'll just be left with our mortgage. We are in a 30-year veteran loan, but we plan to pay it off early within hopefully 10 to 15 years.
My question is, so right now we have, my question is kind of regarding my credit score. We have four credit cards right now that are open, but frozen.
We have not used them in probably about a year. We're kind of, I guess, not sure what to do with those accounts.
We're kind of leaving them open right now so that if we close them, they don't affect our credit score. Our hope is that if we have the opportunity in the next few years to refinance, to get a lower interest rate, that we would do that in order to help us pay off our mortgage even quicker.
But we're just not sure, do we close our credit cards and risk that affecting our credit score? Would that affect it drastically? Or do we leave them open and frozen and kind of maintain our credit score? We just don't kind of want to tank it and lose that chance to refinance in the future. So there is something to be said about when you're going through the process of paying off debt.
There's kind of this spoken or in some cases unspoken thought that, okay, when we do this, we're not borrowing money again. Therefore, we wouldn't need our credit score again.
Therefore, we can close our credit cards. And so in your case, you're kind of thinking about, well, we don't plan on borrowing money anymore, but we want to refinance.
And I can just tell you just from personal situation,

we have a mortgage and we don't have any other credit cards and we don't have anything else.

And before we had our mortgage, our credit score went to zero.

We purchased a home with a loan and our credit is like almost perfect.

And all we have on there is our mortgage.

So you might see an initial drop just because you're closing accounts, but it's not going to go to zero and it's not going to be terrible because you're still have something major like a mortgage that you're paying every single month on time. And so there is part of that, that it's going to make it okay and it's going to keep it, you know, in the upper range.
And so I don't think you have to be worried about that but I kind of my question for you is do you have any other qualms about your credit score because I do think that when you go and set out to follow the Ramsey plan you have to know eventually your credit score is going to go to zero and you kind of have to cut ties with that old way of thinking yeah and I ultimately, like we do want our credit score to be undeterminable. Like that is our ultimate goal.
We don't plan on taking out any more debt. Like you had said, like we have two cars, they're old, they're paid for.
So we have basically our credit cards are frozen in a safe. So we haven't even kind of activated the new ones that they send us all the time.
But it's been more of a concern that because that was our extended length of credit attached to some of these cards that, you know, with wanting to potentially refinance in order to get the house paid off, that we just didn't want to. What's your interest right uh like 6.8 okay so you guys just recently bought in the last year too okay we have we bought it if i were you i'd cancel them sooner than later so that your score has the ability to kind of do what it's going to do and then even out to where it's going to even out and then when the time comes who knows when these interest rates get lower then you will have a clear indicator of what it will be.
And it won't be in that fluctuation stage. Yeah.
And Emily, when you look at the calculations of how a credit score is even mathematically determined, one of the pieces of the pie is new debt. And you guys aren't doing that.
So in one sense, you got everything frozen, but you're not taking on new debt. So you're not playing the game naturally anyway anyway so there is a chance even because of that mathematically speaking you may even see a down tick slowly because you're not playing that game and so if you're not playing it I would just cut ties with it and like what Jade said even it back out or you know if if all else fails like you're gonna be fine you know what I mean so um so in my head it is it's just a because I don't want I don't want accounts out there floating around even if they're frozen no way so just right just being able to get rid of them getting guests like Jade said when everything is back then and stabilized and sadly the truth is who knows who knows what's gonna happen in the future so I'd rather take things under my control and do something that I can do which is just get rid rid of them, close it out, and then see how the world shakes out and then go from there.
100%. All right, next, let's go to Kyle in Charlotte.
Hey, Kyle, welcome to the show. Hey, how are y'all? We're doing well.
How can we help? So I got a little dilemma. I just started watching the Ramsey show probably two months ago, and I'm currently in Baby Step 1.
I did get the EveryDollar app. I am using that, created a budget.
So I have me and my fiancé, we have a three-month-old baby girl. She has a 14-year-old daughter that actually lives with us as well.
We bought a home about two years ago. Mortgage is around $157,000 left on it.
She has two vehicle loans. One's around $18,000, the other one's around $8,000.
So she also has three credit cards and she has a personal loan, so I don't have any debt currently in my name, um, but her debt, all of her debt together is around 42,000, not including the home mortgage. Okay.
So she stays home. She's a stay at home mother.
Um, I'm a full-time firefighter. Um, I have two part-time jobs as well.
Um, and as well. And I'm trying to figure out, you know, I am going to snowball the debt after I do the baby step one, which that's baby step two.
But I'm trying to get her on board with the budget. When do you get married? We actually don't have a a marriage date yet that's what i was going to say as well so our our relationship is actually hanging on by a thread because of you know we don't see eye to eye on the financial state that's a big deal um it's a big deal Kyle has that has that um has that changed in the last two months since you've been watching, or has it always been like that? So it's been like that more since my daughter was born.
Yeah. Okay.
You know, I've always been a saver. And, you know, now that my daughter's born, you know, I grew up, my parents separated when I was 12.
So I've seen, I know how that affects the kid and I don't want that. Yep.
And, you know, I look at the future like anything can happen. So she's not like that.
Like I asked her the other day because I was listening. I was like, you know, what is your 10 year goal? Where do you see yourself in 10 years? And she's's told me she said you know i i just i worry

about today i don't worry about 10 years i'm like you know so when you ask her her philosophy on on money and you're asking her hey like are you at a point in life where you're done borrowing how do you feel about paying off debt is she able to give an answer that has any promise so she will say

she don't want to borrow any more money

but it's just like now you know um she's made some financial decisions that i didn't agree with and you know i don't i don't have i didn't have the control over that at that point well listen she can go do what she wants the hard part is you guys are um in in a the situation is made more complex because you're not yet married but you're kind of in this situation where your life seems like you're married so you you feel like listen i have to step in my debt her debt's my debt and so the whole thing is very confused and i think that as much as you can put some clarity around that and either marry her or not but i would not start paying off this debt until you've decided if this is the person that you're going to spend your life with yep yeah and kyle and i would have the conversation with her from a vulnerable you know not just well what are you you you pointing tell her you like what's going on in kyle what is the fear that you have what is going on And start these conversations And you've said this before Jade On different shows But like it takes It sometimes takes time Yes Right you've had a mindset A natural shift And then Ramsey's probably confirmed that Because we lean probably more on your side Kyle But you guys together Need to sit down And have these conversations But for now Keep the finances separate You don't need to be paying on her debt because if she's not getting out of debt, she's digging herself deeper in a hole. You've spent years trying to get everything just right for your family.
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That's why the letter why refi dot com slash Ramsey may not be available in all states. OK, today's question comes from Matthew in Oregon.
He says, my wife and I are debt free except our expensive townhome. We bought it in 2022 with a 30 year term mortgage.
Our monthly payment is about $4,200 a month, including escrow and PMI, while our net take home pay is $8,750 a month. Wow.
Our annual gross income is $110,000, which means our housing costs take up about 40% of our income, which limits

how much we can invest. We both have the potential for income growth, but today's high cost of living is challenging, especially with four kids.
We're in baby step four, five, and six, but still feel trapped. It's hard to see a finish line of no mortgage payment.
Should we stay where we're at and wait for our income to grow or sell our house and move.

Ugh, this is, this is. of no mortgage payment, should we stay where we're at and wait for our income to grow or sell our house and move? This is one of those reality moments, Rachel.
I think that if you're truly engaged in what's going on financially in your home, these are the moments where it's really tough because for those of you who don't know, here we teach that your payment shouldn't be any more than 25% of your take-home pay. And the reason for that is once it creeps beyond that, especially beyond 30%, is you really do start to feel that.
And you start to experience what we call being house poor and your blessing on the house now becomes a burden, right? Because you're not able to have the margin to do the things that life calls for. I mean, in this case, it could be anything from childcare.
It could be anything from they're wanting to pay off their mortgage and they don't have any margin. Yeah.
Well, if you're in baby step four, you're funding 15% of your income in retirement. So automatically that's taking it.
You have 45% of your income to live off of that's before food and utilities and everything. So it does.
It starts to dwindle. Not always like in the right spots.
Right. And so and if you give 10%, forget about it.
That's right. That's right.
Now you're down to 35% and for basic living. So yeah, it's almost that feeling of like, we work too hard to feel this broke.
I mean, like we shouldn't feel like this. And it is because 40% of your income is going to housing.
And so yeah, I mean, I would be looking elsewhere because you say an expensive townhome, which I'm assuming is a really nice one, probably in a nice area. Yeah.
And so I would be looking for other options. You know, you may be getting an older home.
It may not be near the city because that's usually where prices go up. That's right.
The closer you are to the city. So you may be moving out and all of it, which I know with four kids, I know it's so easier said than done.

Just like, oh yeah, get up and move.

I know that that's like,

could be changing schools, all of this.

But the quality of your life

and going to bed at night

and having peace and not stressing

and not being, you know,

to this point of like on a,

like you just feel like, oh my gosh,

I just go to, I go to a job

and I have no progress in my life.

Like that is daunting. That's for the birds.
You go, think about how much time you spend at work you go to work all day eight hours a day some people far more than that and then you you feel like you have nothing to show for you can't enjoy your life you can't do the things that make you feel like you're making progress in life then there's the part of this uh equation Rachel where they do see um a way for their income to go up now there's been times people have called in the show and they're like, hey, I'm at 30 percent of my income, but I know that I have a raise coming up in the next 12 months. Yeah.
And if we get that raise, you know, it'll equal out. And so there's a part of that where if they said, hey, we see a place where we're going to get, you know, a 15 percent increase.
Both of us. Both of us.
Yeah. And and that's going to happen in the next 12 months maybe there's a part of this where you can ride it out that's right that's right but only if that's 100 absolutely going to be true yes yeah don't be on a wish and a prayer of it may be happening and then you're stuck in the cycle for the next four to five years because that's going to be exhausting.
Yeah. All right, let's go to Will in Miami.

Hi, Will.

Welcome to the show.

Hello, how are you?

Doing great.

How can we help?

Yes.

So my father bought a car years ago.

This is a Mercedes.

He's a retiree surgeon, and he now works as a surgical assistant. Here, since all the recession and all the economic problems we've been going through the country, that area of health, He hasn't been able to get a job For the last year He has some stuff on and off

But That area of health, he hasn't been able to get a job for the last year. He has some stuff on and off, but he hasn't been able to have a stable job.
The payment for this car is $500 a month, $550, plus insurance. That rounds up to somewhere between $650 to $700 a month.

And because he doesn't have a job right now,

it's been really difficult to maintain all the expenses.

What's he doing to maintain it?

I mean, right now, all our family is working.

We are immigrants, and everybody contributes. You're paying for your dad's car payment? No, I'm not.
I'm just saying that everybody's paying their first share, but the car right now is one of those crazy expenses. Are you all under the same roof? Yes.
Okay. And so explain to Rachel and I kind of how that works.
When you say everybody's paying their fair share, what does that mean? So between my sister and I, our rent is $3,000. My sister and I pay about half of that.
Okay.

And the rest of the expenses are covered by our parents.

Although we didn't start paying until recently, until about six months ago.

My sister just graduated from college.

I'm still a student.

Okay.

How old are you, Will?

Oh, I'm 28. I'm just a late bloomer student.
That's great. I was just curious.
That's great. Okay.
So it's just you and your sister. The agreement is we all kind of live under one roof, but together you guys pay for half of the rent and we pay for the other half and everything else.
Yes. And so you're concerned that since your dad is not working, how is he affording to pay for this Mercedes or this expensive car that he has? I mean, to be honest, we cannot afford anything right now.
Even though we are able to cover the basics, that doesn't cover the credit card debts my parents have. That's why I believe that the car is one of the things that is taking them down.
So the hard... Oh, go ahead, Rachel.
Well, so, okay, a couple of things, Will. Where did you guys immigrate from? I'm just curious.
Oh, we are originally from Venezuela. Okay, yeah, been here for eight years.
We are, we became citizens last year. Okay.
And the only reason I ask is I do find, even in the Hispanic culture, there is this like gathering of family, right? There is, there is more than just the standard American. It's like, oh, it's, you know, Americans, I just feel like we're more independent and you just, you know, you run on your own track.

Where other countries, other cultures, there is more of this like family oriented life. So I'm not saying one is wrong or the other will.
But as a 28 year old guy, and I know you want to support your parents and be there for them and all of it for your your own dignity. will as a man emotionally i do want you to somewhat separate what your parents have chosen with their own lifestyle versus what you're choosing right so they've chosen to or he's chosen to have a mercedes okay that's his choice you have not done that the credit cards i don't know if the credit cards are paying the light bill to keep the keep the the That's one thing.
But if it's credit card debt that's coming from your parents that charge their own cards for their own lifestyle, that is their money and their choices. It does get a little bit confusing when you are living under one roof.
So I think, Will, emotionally, I would detach myself from your parents' choices. And until they start affecting you, which they might soon will, there may be a point

that you say, hey, I'm going to have to make a different decision for my life.

Yeah.

And I may have to go get a job, pause school, and do something different because I'm not

going to be taken under because of their bad choices.

But here's the thing, Will.

Jade and I joked earlier, we were like, it takes a lot of therapy to realize you can't change people. You cannot change people.
So I's the thing, Will. Jade and I joked earlier.
We were like, it takes a lot of therapy

to realize you can't change people.

You cannot change people.

So I hope that helps, Will.

You're an awesome son

and we wish you the best.

Thanks to all the guys in the booth, Jade.

Thanks always for being a great co-host.

Thanks to our live studio audience

here in Nashville.

And thank you, America.

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Up first this hour, we have George in Los Angeleseles la hey george welcome to the show hi thank you for taking my call absolutely how can we help i so i have a hundred and forty thousand dollars in debt right now and also my wages are being garnished already i've been sued um from a loan i didn loan. I didn't pay 25% of my income every week, um, every two weeks.
So I just taking a lot of money. Uh, I make about 90,000 gross.
Uh, take home about 75,000 a year. My wife recently started working.
I'm doing everything I possibly can to take, um, you know, more income, everything, but I'm, I'm already up to the point where I'm kind of thinking of filing bankruptcy or selling my house. So I'm thinking what's the better option, either sell the home or just file for bankruptcy.
Okay. So tell me, what's the debt, the $140,000? Basically, it's three loans, three personal loans.
One of them is $50,000. The other one's another $50,000.
Another one is $40,000. One of them is $20,000.
One of them is a car, but I'm thinking I'm still, I want to pay the car off. So I'm not going to put that one.
The $20,000 is the car? Yeah. One of them is $20,000.
That one's still good. I'm paying that one off.
And the other is just all personal loans. What were the loans for? What'd you use them for? I got hurt a long time when I was working and I needed a couple, I needed some money just to stay afloat of my mortgage.
So I just took out a lot of, took some loans and just kept paying it off. But then another one I took out to consolidate debt and ended up just splurging the money didn't really do what I had to do so when does your wife and then when does your wife start adding to the income because you're making around six thousand a month I started working like four months ago and what's she making about I would $1,600 a month.
Okay. Okay.
What is she doing job-wise? She just works at a veterinary place. Okay.
Do you guys have kids? Yes, two. You have two.
Okay. And which of the loans are the ones that are garnishing your wages? Just from a bank, the personal loan.
Is it one of the personal, one of the $50,000? Yeah. Okay.
And are both of those personal loans with the same bank? No. No, okay.
And have you been current on the other $50,000 loan?

No, I haven't paid anything to anybody for a while already.

Okay, okay.

And so you've got the house.

Everything's in collections, basically, except the car and the house.

So they're taking almost $2,000, a little under $2,000 a month, right, garnishing from you?

Yeah, exactly, yeah.

What percentage of your take-, what percentage of your take home pays your mortgage? I pay $1,800 a month for my mortgage. Okay.
Okay. Oh boy.
All right. Yeah, we need, you're not able to do anything here um okay so the key here is we've got to find a way to get more money coming in and i'm wondering with the garnish if is there any way that you can say can we set up another payment program because this one is like burying me alive i've tried everything already spoke to lawyers i've done everything in my part to make some adjustments i've done pretty much all i can do i even even if i get another job they're still going to garnish so at this point i'm already maxed out it's just i don't see like a like another solution.
They're just not budgeting at all. How old are your kids? One of them's eight and another one is five.
Okay. Is the five-year-old in kindergarten? Is anybody in daycare is what I'm getting at? They're both being homeschooled.
Oh, that's right. Okay.
Okay. There's part of this that and you and your wife are going to have to sit down i mean you're pretty much up against it and you could use all of the the money that you can get um right is there any way that because i i don't know i'm not going to pretend to know a ton about homeschooling but i know that there's some where even though they're not going into school, they're going into a program that's outside of your home.
Like a co-op, like a co-op type situation. Is there a way that you can still keep the value of homeschooling, but it's not your wife that's actually doing it so that she can work? Full time.
That's something I haven't thought about. and I'm not saying forever but i think that you're in a your back is against the wall and unfortunately when that happens something you have to let go of something something has to change in order for you to change your situation and usually that is a sacrifice of some nature and there's just no getting around it.
But I'd rather you keep control of this situation. And Rachel, you can speak more to this, but once you hand it over to bankruptcy, you lose control.
And I don't want you to lose control of the situation. I want you to make every choice and feel like you have a say in everything that's going on.
Okay.

For the house, George, give me some of the numbers around that.

How much do you owe on it?

How much is left on the mortgage?

The house is right now, $390 is what we owe.

And it's worth about $500, almost $600,000.

Almost $600,000.

Okay.

um you know

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you know the car i would probably i would sell the car george i know you're making payments on it but that's something that can easily be swapped up to to earn some money and margin back into the budget that you can go back and get later after all of this. But again, back to that sacrificial mindset, like what can you scorched earth do to have any means to be able to get ahead on some of this? Because some of it is in collections and keeping a car payment afloat is something that I would, because I mean, everything else is in collections.
And if you get that i don't want even you know being repoed on like i don't want anything like that like you're in a little bit of that situation that again back to that control that jade's talking about um how much could you sell the car for have you kelly blue booked it uh yeah i i think i can sell it for like maybe 18 18 grand around there okay it's i and i owe like about 18 000 so i mean I could break even. Yeah, right think I can sell it for like maybe 18 grand around there.
Okay. And I owe like about 18,000.
So, I mean, I could break even on that one. It's just, you know, I mean, that's not, I mean, I guess I could do something like that.
I mean, what's the payment on it? It's just $500 a month. That's a lot.
Okay. I mean, $500 to have that freed up is a big deal.
And if you are upside like this is one of those cases if you're upside down you go down to the credit union get a loan for the difference and a little bit more in order to get yourself a beater if you need it and i'd rather have a five thousand dollar loan than a twenty thousand dollar loan agree plus you freed up five hundred dollars you know a little bit less than that a month when you take into consideration the new payment yeah you're going to have to make some tough choices mama's probably going back to work you're probably getting rid of this car and you might have to consider what's the equity and then the house yeah could be in play but I just want your habits to change as well, George. But you guys got this.
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That's RamseySolutions.com slash smart tax. All right, everybody, you're listening to The Ramsey Show.
I'm your co-host, Jade Warshaw, joined by Rachel Cruz. And during the break, we were talking about non-negotiables.
And so many of us face this, whether you are dating someone and, you know, you have to bring up those conversations, Rachel, about money, about, you know, religious views, possibly political views. Like there's all these tough conversations to have.
And when do you know when you're dating somebody, when you get to that point, that's like, okay, this is, I've hit my point, right? Like we talked to somebody who was in a relationship for three years and it's like, okay, maybe now's the time to start looking at this, talking about this. But it's hard to know, especially if you might see a little bit of progress and you're like, yes, this is progress.
Maybe we're going on the right direction. But what would you say, Rachel, is let's call out some red flags of if you see this, this might be pump the brakes.
Money wise. Money wise.
I don't know if I'm not a marriage therapist. I don't know.
No, I'm talking about finances. Yes.
I would say I always pump the brakes with people that feel like they have all the answers. Like when it's this idea that like I, I don't have any more learning to do.
Oh, like I'm kind of just stuck in my, this is it. I'm good.
And you're like, you don't want to grow or stretch or like hear something different. Like to me in life right now, that feels so prideful.
So with money and we get this call a lot with people that as we're talking about non-negotiables so I guess there's a little bit on the other side of this but this idea that you know we we talk and they're like well you know he just tells me like he don't want to talk about it he's not gonna talk about it or she doesn't she won't even she won't even enter the discussion I'm like that's exhausting like that's exhausting so you can have your non-negotiables but be but be humble about it it's the spirit that you bring to it. Well, let me be devil's advocate because there's somebody listening in their car and they're like, listen, I'm the one who my spouse keeps talking to me about Ramsey this, Ramsey that.
And whenever I try to tell her my views on why I want to keep my mortgage payment and invest it instead, she's so closed minded. Like she doesn't want to hear, she feels like she's found this plan and that's it.
Like there's no, like, let's talk about it from that point of view. Yeah.
So if I'm her, I would be like, okay, so talk me through that. Let's run some numbers.
Let's look, let's have a conversation, right? Not just you telling him, well, this is what it is. This is what you should be doing.
Preachy mentality um yeah being willing to listen very much so and ask questions and ask questions be curious like that whole spirit as a person I think is really important but when you're so closed off and you don't even want a conversation that to me is the big that's exhausting like you know that would be a red flag for me I think they won't even they won't even talk about it. They avoid it.
You know, all this stuff. And you're just like, oh, man.
Yeah, I think that's a red flag. I think if you're talking about the future, like, say you're dating and you're talking about, OK, like when we get married, you know, what are your views on combining money? That like maybe maybe they've been very open about their money up until this point.
And you're like, yes, everything's going good. But then when you start thinking about, okay thinking about okay when we get married how is this going to work because my thoughts are that we would combine our money and kind of have our goals together and if they're saying oh really because I've worked really hard for my savings and yep that for me would be tough would be tough and a non-negotiable I think it's a non-negotiable but there's part I'm not gonna like there's part of me that wonders if there could be a journey there over time yep yeah so

these be tough and a non-negotiable i think it's a non-negotiable but there's part i'm not gonna lie there's part of me that wonders if there could be a journey there over time yep yeah so these are you know these are tough conversations but i i would urge people to start having them early if there's one thing that i can say that i kind of feel like i learned in my marriage is we didn't talk about that dating like yes our dating time was very fun and not a lot of like we I mean we talked about heavy stuff but somehow the financial stuff just wasn't really in there and then after the fact it was like oh wait a minute luckily there were certain things that we just naturally aligned on thank goodness yeah but yeah have those conversations yeah and I would say debt would be one of those I mean it would be would be really tough to marry somebody. And they're like, hey, I want to go, you know, $500,000 in debt to do real estate.
And I'll be like, oh, no, I can't do that. I can't do that.
I can't do that. It's like that would stress.
That would be because then you live as the spouse in the stressful state 24-7, you know, an investment. I'm saying not just primary.
I get it. It's like because I see these people on Instagram, TikTok, and they're all about real estate and leverage to their eyeballs.
Yes. And I just watched that.
I'm like, Oh, my gosh, that would be so hard. That would be a tough, that would be a tough marriage for me.
That is because on the one hand, and I mean, even if it's not real estate, even if it's just one person, like I have this business goal or this aspiration, I want to open a restaurant, whatever it is. But their viewpoint is i go into debt to do this yeah and if you're the spouse who says hey i i don't feel comfortable with debt i don't like debt and they view that as you're not supporting my dream or you're not you know what i'm saying like you don't believe in me you don't believe this is going to work and we'll be able to pay it off that right there that's a very tough conversation to have.
Now, don't get me wrong.

I still stand my ground because I feel like, I'm not like, can we do it over time?

Is there a way to not leverage debt?

Yes, yes.

Oh, goodness.

All good things to talk about.

It's hard and messy.

Good stuff.

All right.

Let's go to the phone lines where we've got Anna in Houston, Texas.

What's going on, Anna?

Anna?

Hello.

How are you guys doing?

Doing good.

How are you? Sorry I said your name wrong. It's Anna, right? Anna? Hello.
How are you guys doing? Doing good. How are you?

Sorry I said your name wrong.

It's Anna, right?

You're okay.

It is Anna.

So I have a question, and I'm hoping that y'all can kind of help me out because I've been thinking about it for a little while.

I am expecting to get a raise here soon within the next maybe two months at work. And it's about, I'm hoping like $20,000 extra a year.
I'm not certain though, if I should save that amount every year or use it to pay off my student loan debt. That's awesome.
I have about $65,000 of student loan debt that I just accrued here recently going back to school to get my master's. And it's just me and my kids.
I don't get child support. How many kids? And I have three.
Okay. One, my son is 19 though now.
And so he's, he wants to go to school. That's a whole nother situation and needing a little bit of money for that.
But I guess my question is just, should I save that extra 20 a year for me and my kids, just like for security type stuff. Or should I just use it all to pay off the student loan debt? Because I don't want it to go from 65 to $200,000.
Of course. And that's a great way of thinking.
Number one, congratulations on the raise. That's excellent.
So if you're kind of new to the Ramsey show, we teach everything kind of through a series of baby steps. Right.
There's these seven baby steps that you can take that build on each other to ultimately get you to this place of financial peace. Right.
And so the advice that I'm going to give you is based on that. So the first thing that we want to kind of create this secure platform for you is you just need a thousand dollars saved.
right? So if you can just out of that $20,000 raise or out of your bank account or whatever you have of money now, if you can just set $1,000 aside and just, okay, I've got that there. And then the second baby step is, yeah, you pay off your debt because when you pay off debt, you're eliminating that risk, you're eliminating that financial uncertainty that's in your life.
And that's usually the point of stress that people feel is, oh my gosh, I've got to make these payments or these debt collectors are calling me or my payment is due, right? That's usually the source of stress that people feel when it relates to their money. So in your case, I would say, if you've got this extra money, congratulations, let's put it to whatever baby step you're on so that you can keep going in the right direction to get to that ultimate financial piece.
And it sounds like in your case, you would be on baby step two where you are paying off the debt. Anna, how much do you make in your job now? So I make about $4,000 a month.
It's about $60,000 a year. Okay.
And then the $20,000 will come, so that'll be about $80,000? Mm-hmm. Okay, great.
And I already, I have the emergency fund, and I even have about $30,000 in a CD account that I put up whenever I sold my house last year. So I have that saved.
That's great. It's going to make you nervous, but I would put that towards your debt and that will take a huge chunk out of this debt and you're going to make great money.
I mean, you're going to make 80 grand. So you'll have $35,000 left.
I mean, you could pay this off in 18, 24 months. Yeah.
And honestly, when that CD matures, I'd probably put that on the debt too and knock it out. $65,000.
I would do that. And then once the debt is gone, I'd save back up that money.
And I just keep it in a high yield to where it's like very liquid. But yeah, listen, I'm proud of you.
I think that you're doing all the right things. You've got good instincts and good intuitions.
Yes, you're doing great. Taking great care of your family.
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If you want to give us a call, it's a live show, so you can do that. The number is 888-825-5225.
We'll get you on the line. Again, I'm Jade Warshaw.
Next to me is Rachel Cruz. We're the ones that will be taking your calls this hour.
So let's go straight to the phone lines where we've got Samantha in Phoenix, Arizona. What's going on, Samantha? Hi, thank you guys for taking my call.
You bet. I am new to the baby steps, and I was technically on baby step two, but I left an abusive relationship, and I'm going through a custody battle right now, so I've incurred additional debt for attorney fees.
Okay. So I'm trying to figure out my next steps going forward.
Should I pause making additional payments, like, towards my debt and just work on saving money for additional attorney fees that might come up? Yeah, I would. This is definitely a storm.
Yeah, for sure. I would categorize this as a storm.
And we do say that when you're in baby step two, especially, there's a couple of things that would cause you to kind of pause and that would be a baby on the way

or some sort of storm or major emergency that is causing you to kind of have to just hold tight for a minute. Yeah, that becomes more of a priority at that point than paying off debt, right? We're all about paying off debt, but your child is a priority there, right? If there's a health issue that you have to pause to make sure that you can get yourself in a healthy place, that is, pregnancy, anything that

is, takes

precedent, which is usually a relational situation or a health situation, we for sure say pause and get that in order. I'm so sorry, Samantha.
I'm always so impressed with women like you that choose to step out of a situation like that because that cycle can be so hard to break out of.

How long has this been going on

just from the custody standpoint,

fighting it with lawyers?

So going on two years,

the first part was when he tried to fight

the restraining order.

So that was the first time I took on attorney fees.

And then now he was in jail for a bit

while violating the restraining order,

but now he's out.

So now he's trying to come for full custody.

Thank you. time I took on attorney fees and then now, you know, he was in jail for a bit, we're violating the restraining order, but now he's out and now he's trying to come for full custody.
Oh my gosh. How many kids do you have? Luckily, I only have one.
Okay. Me and my daughter, but it's still a lot.
How is your like financial situation? How is your home situation? So I currently rent and I am safe. Luckily, I'm with family and I make about $52,000 a year.
But my debt went from, I got it down to $12,000 and now it's back up at $20,000. And what are you, is that just the outstanding, is that just the $20,000 is000 is the attorney fees no so um about 10,000 of it was attorney fees um 6,000 was about credit card three about student loans and then I'm about 2,000 left on my car loan okay um do you have any do you have any savings right now that you're pulling from or are are you just pretty much incurring the debt as the attorney fees come up? So I was able to pull from, like, 401K to kind of help with this because it was so, I wasn't expecting it.
You know, I thought after the restraining order was standing that that was going to be it. So I wasn't expecting this.
So I was able to get a little bit of help through that. But of course, I want to pay all of this back as quickly as possible.
But my biggest fear is I don't know what's going to happen three to six months from now to the next year as well. Right.
Okay. So are you still in the middle of this then? I am.
Yeah. Okay.
And has y'all, has your lawyer given you any timeframe by any chance? Like, do you know, I mean, you're saying three to six months, you know, um, like does he have any conclusion of like when this will end? No, no, because we're still waiting on mediation. Um, and then I more than likely that nothing's going to happen in there because my ex, of course, he's not going to agree to anything.
Does your ex have a lot of money? Is that why he's trying to, is he trying to drain you out on this? Yeah, they think so. Because, yes, he comes from money.
So he knows that I would do anything to protect our daughter. So he knows that I'm willing to, you know, figure out ways to get the money because he knows I'm not going to represent myself.
I'm not in a position to do that, you know, emotionally. Is there anybody around you that has the ability to help with this that wants to? Because the truth is, this is costing you money and it's costing you money that you don't have.
And I do believe, like I'm, I believe that the custody is going to end up with you because from what you're telling me, there's clearly track record that this is an abusive person, especially the fact that he's ended in jail for trying to violate this. So I have a feeling that this will end with you, but how long can you go down this track? Do you see what I'm saying? Yeah.
Yeah. So Samantha, so I, yeah, if I were you, if I was in your position right now, I would stay current on

everything.

I would not get behind. So I would say I would be paying your minimal payments on everything.
And then on the side, finding that margin month to month to be able to put some money aside. So as these fees come up, you do have an account that you're going to be able to pull from.
And then I would also start to evaluate as much as you can the consistency of how often the bills are coming, how often you guys are using the lawyer, if there is mediation and all of it. Because I think a goal would be, small goals would say, okay, there's some money set aside for attorney fees.
And the truth is I may have to go into debt for that. But if I can at least maybe knock out that $2,000 car loan in the midst of this, right? Because it's not something that's going to be solved.
It sounds like even maybe even the next 12 months. So I don't want you sitting idle financially during that time.
But I do want you to put some cushion between you and life. So putting some money away, kind of for an emergency fund that you can pull some of that for attorney's fees as they come up, but then also giving yourself a goal financially to start making some progress.
Because honestly too, Samantha, I think making progress in this area of your life, it actually might give you that boost of confidence and there's something proactive that you're doing in your life that actually can start the wheels engaging in a positive way through the circumstance. Absolutely.
I mean, there's only $2,000 left on the car. What's the payment on that? What will you get back in your pocket monthly when you pay that off? So I pay about $2.96 a month for the car.
Good. So another $300.
That's great. To Rachel's point, that's even more money that you'll be able to set aside.
So yeah, like no disguising the fact that this is tough and you've got your work cut out for you in a lot of ways. But I think just being really intentional, still creating a plan and sticking to that plan, whatever you decide that plan is, is going to be really paramount for you walking through this.
That's so, so, so, so tough. I know.
I'm so sorry, Samantha. Tough to walk through.
All right. Do you want to try to take another call right quick? Let's try it.
Caleb in Norfolk, Virginia. What's going on, Caleb? Hey, thank you for taking my call.
Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas.
How can we help? So my question my question is regarding life insurance. Um, I'm currently in the military, but I'm getting out in about three months.
Um, I have life insurance through the military. It's called super service members, group life insurance.
I pay about $31 a month for a $500,000 policy. Uh, my question is whenever I get out, I have the option for a limited time really to roll that over into what's called veterans group life insurance, which is about $35 a month.
And that will, you know, increase about every five years. I'm 26 now.
I have no debt, but really I'm just unsure because I don't have a wife or children yet. I don't really have anybody relying on my wage but me.
So I'm just kind of looking for some guidance here. Yeah, I mean, Kim, I don't think you really have to re-up this or roll it over.
I mean, I wouldn't. The reason really you have life insurance is if someone is dependent upon your income.
So that would be a spouse or children. And as a single person, I mean, I would have some money, you know, set aside that if something were to happen to you, like covers funeral costs and that kind of thing.
But I don't think you need a life insurance policy for that. So I probably would just end up canceling it once you get out.
I agree. I agree with that statement.
And if you don't have to pay it now, I wouldn't pay it now. Forget the rollover.
I would get out of it now if I could because you really don't need it. All right.
That does it for that. Yeah.
I think people forget all the time, Rachel, that there's a purpose to life insurance. It's not necessarily to make you rich or all of these other things.
It's for anybody who's dependent on your income. If something happens to you, how do they make life work? That's what it's there for.
Children, spouses. And term life is so inexpensive.
It sounded like some of those rates, you know, it's just not expensive at all. And so yeah,

if someone's dependent on your income, make sure you get life insurance. You can go to

xanderinsurance.com and check it out there because that's a great place to get your term life. All right, business owners, last call.
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wait. Pre to the show.
Hi. How are you today? Hi, we are doing well.
How can we help?

Well, I hope you can help. That's my question.
Is there any hope for our situation?

We have been married 19 years. We're in our 50s.
We have one special needs son.

We're both self-employed. I have a business from home, which has been very helpful with our son and being home when he gets off the bus, all that kind of stuff.
My husband has always controlled 99% of the finances. I don't have, my name is not on the bank account.
My name, I don't have a login. Our, his business and our home bills are combined on the same account, which I know probably should not be that way.
We have a home loan of about $243,000. If sold, it might be worth $700,000.
The big problem I came to realize is that our credit cards are at $209,000. Wow.
We have a car loan for $21,000, and some of the credit cards are his business only. But as far as I'm aware, you know, in certain states, your debt is your debt and half and half debt and assets.
So I guess I'm trying to figure out, I can't get through to him. He just blows up when I try to say, hey, let's try a budget.
Hey, here's all the credit cards on an Excel spreadsheet that shows all the percentages. Like, it's just kind of banging my head on a wall.
And I don't know how to protect myself, how to protect my son. The only good news is that I do have a 401k that is in my name from before we were married.
And then we also have, I have a little bit of savings. And then he does have a life insurance policy.
God forbid anything happens, but he's not well mentally. And he's been, you know, threatening a lot of things.
And I thought I should try and get some advice. Are you thinking about walking away from this? At this point, I really can't right now.
I can't right now. My business is here on the property.
And if I would leave, the other thing is I would be taking my autistic child away from the only home he knows. That he's had his whole life, his dogs, everything that's comfort to him.
And your your husband's not, is he, it's, I'm guessing based on what you said. I think he knows that he's in the toilet.
I think he realizes, I mean, he's paying the minimums on the credit cards. That's it.
And where's the revenue of your business going in? What account is that going into? It's going in with everything else. I mean, I don't make much.
Last year, he had it written down here. Last year.
Hey, do you suspect that there could be IRS debt as well? Because when you tell me that all the business bills and all the personal bills and everything's together, that sounds like a mess. I don't.
I think he's pretty OCD about keeping

track of stuff. Last year's gross income was $233,000, but then by the time we got to the

bottom of the income, the income is $26,000. Once he takes off depreciation, vehicles,

all that kind of stuff. What type of business does he have?

He's an electrical contractor. So he's making $26,000 a year.
He's paying himself $26,000. Technically, yeah.
And it's just him. He doesn't have employees.
And what about you? Just myself. And what do you bring in? What's your payment from your business? I'm lucky if I bring $10,000 or less.
So you guys combined are living off of $36,000

and you've got the $21,000 in car debt and how much in credit cards? $206,000? $209,000. $209,000.
Okay. And is there anything else that you think might be out there, not including the mortgage? No, and of that $209,000, $40,000 is just for his business.

But, of course, I'm pretty sure i'm liable for that as well but everything else and so is he using these credit cards to keep you guys afloat just month to month yes yep and when you said he's not mentally well what do you mind going into a little bit more detail on that i mean there's there's increased um alcohol um just um you can tell there's depression yeah that will even mention the debt will mention my wife told me that we're this much in debt and you know she must be full of it i don't believe it and he'll say this in front of his best friends and it's like oh my god now he's like sharing it with folks but i think he's embarrassed I think he doesn't know what to do yeah I do too yep so I think you know and it just sounds like um my first protection is for you and the fact that you don't have any access to anything and I mean there could be there could be a whole other life he's living right I mean on on different levels on different scales financially not I'm like you have no clue what's really going on because the money is kind of the paper trail to a degree on life and and being able to see that and you have no access to that which is a hard line I draw you have to be able to have access and be have everything visual that you see I mean it's one thing if you're like oh my gosh he's a spender I'm a saver I don't know what to do it's a whole other thing and you cross another line into another level of seriousness when you don't have the ability to access your money so so this is a it's a it's a it's a more serious weight there That I hold now in this conversation that creates more ultimatums. And I hear you say, like, I can't leave, all of that.
But what I would do is that there's other ultimatums in this marriage that has to change because you're not safe at that point, right? Right. How did you find out about the 209? Just curious.
Did he tell you or you discovered it? Oh, he did not tell me. I discovered it.
I started going through his files. And I made the biggest Excel spreadsheet you'd ever want to see in your life.
And I just tried talking to him., we were okay there for a while. Oh, I'm paying it down.
I'm paying it down. And then, you know, once a year, I'd pull these files again and get everything sorted.
And I did it again this year. And I said, this is, he's to the point now where everything is minimum.
Yeah, for me, this falls into what I would call a level of financial abuse and infidelity because he's keeping everything on his side. He's making moves without sharing them with you.
And they're at the detriment to you and your family and your son. And I would push back on the fact that there's nowhere for you to go.
There's always an option. but I can guarantee you this it is not going to be a comfortable option there's going to be no

piece of it that feels comfortable or easy or, you know what I'm saying? So I do think that you have to give yourself an ultimatum and you need to say, all right, what am I going to do? What are my limits? What are my boundaries? And what is my timeframe for me to, and what is an indicator that this is moving forward or that it's staying the same? Like, does that make sense? You have to have something very real and very measurable for this situation. Yeah.
Yeah. Right.
Right. So whether that's, whether that's I'm going to offer counseling and I'm going to give him 60 days to agree to it.
Or I'm going to ask him for these account passwords and I'm going to ask him for, you know, complete transparency.

And I'm going to give him 45 days to wrestle with that and get to that point.

You've just got to make it very clear.

Write it down on paper.

If you have a friend, get a friend.

If you have a pastor, find a pastor.

But you need somebody who knows. Does anybody else know this is going on besides us two girls on the radio? Yes.
Okay. A few friends, close friends and family members.
And what are they suggesting? What are they saying since they know the situation even more? And they know him and they know he's not he's not right he you know, I married a 37-year-old man who was set in his ways. And unfortunately, he is a collector.
And that's where the money has gone. He collects things.
And to the point I said, can we sell some stuff? So is he hoarding too? Like, are you in that sort of a situation? No. No, it's just enormous collections of things that are really our only hope.
These assets that could help us get out from under this, but he's not willing to touch. I'm not selling any of my stuff, he says.
Like, oh, great. Because years ago he did.
He would sell a stamp collection or he would sell a mother collection. So you're just seeing a deterioration.

So, Anne, I would bring in a third party in that.

And again, it's so hard to say this on this side of the desk because now, Anne, we have to go, but you're going to be living this life.

But not only is it a secret, but you're also behind.

You're trying to live on $34,000 a year as well.

So there's two ends of this that are really urgent.

So I'm so sorry.

I hope this was helpful to give him some ultimatums.

But I so, so appreciate the call.

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