Don't Chase Money, Chase Freedom

Speaker 1 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

Speaker 1 I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, George Campbell, Ramsey Personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today. You jump in.
We'll talk about your life and your money.

Speaker 1 The call is free, and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. Yeah, jump in, triple eight-825-5225.
We'd love to talk to you.

Speaker 1 Tonight, for those of you listening live through one methodology or another, we're on about 83 different platforms of different kinds with this show.

Speaker 1 But if you're able to listen on Tuesday for whatever, Tuesday evening, we will be doing the Investing Essentials workshop tonight. George and I just came out of a rehearsal.

Speaker 1 This is about a two-hour event this evening and tomorrow evening.

Speaker 1 Tuesday and Wednesday night. If you buy a VIP ticket, you have 30 days worth of replay.
You can watch it over and over and over for 30 days. So no rush, no problem, whatever.

Speaker 1 But you do need to get your ticket. If you want to watch this evening live, he and I will be doing investing tonight.
Tomorrow night, we'll be doing investing in real estate.

Speaker 1 And George is loving this, bringing out your, I know you look very GQ on the surface, but underneath we know you're a true nerd.

Speaker 2 I love it. Just watching Dave unpack a formula.
I don't know. That's my new hobby, I guess.
But it really is.

Speaker 2 It's stuff we've never talked about on the show, mostly because you thought it was too dry and boring.

Speaker 1 It's too nerdy.

Speaker 2 But then people went, no, no, no, Dave, we actually want to know how do you select a mutual fund out of all the investment options? We're going to cover that.

Speaker 2 How do you calculate the cash-on-cash return to know if the investment property is worth it?

Speaker 1 How do you do an internal rate of return on a piece of real estate? It's too nerdy. But I do it all because I also am a super nerd.
So a couple super nerds

Speaker 1 tagging up tonight. Investing essentials virtual event.

Speaker 1 My pastor used to say, a man with an experience

Speaker 1 is not at the mercy of a man with an opinion.

Speaker 1 I own about $600 million worth of real estate. I'm 64 years old.
I've got a lot of money in other investments as well.

Speaker 1 This is not

Speaker 1 something I wish I knew something about. It's, I can't fix your car, but I can tell you how to do this because I have done this a lot.
No theories here. Not theories.

Speaker 1 This is not a think tank. This is not your broke financial professor.
finance professor with an opinion. So tonight, March 4th and 5th,

Speaker 1 we're going to to be doing this. It's a two-hour each night.
It's standalone. So it's

Speaker 1 four and a half hours worth of virtual event. Go to ramseysolutions.com, get your tickets.
We'll come into the top of the hour here bragging about that because it is tonight.

Speaker 1 Angela is with us in Rochester, New York. Hi, Angela.
What's up?

Speaker 3 Well, hi. I recently won a nice chunk of money in the lottery.

Speaker 1 Wow. How much did you win?

Speaker 3 I won $3 million.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Unfortunately, I, of course, didn't get anywhere near that. I got $997,000 after taxes.

Speaker 1 Yeah, after taxes and lump sum. The $3 million is the total payout if you take it over 83 bazillion years

Speaker 1 and not counting taxes. Yeah.
So you took it all lump sum. So you got a million bucks.
Way to go. Yeah.
That's fine.

Speaker 1 I'm happy for you.

Speaker 3 Thank you. I was, too.
I just don't know what to do now.

Speaker 3 I've been meeting with a lot of different advisors, but then I'm also reading about a possible market crash, and I don't know what to do.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 I hope there's a market crash right before you put this money in.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 because it's going to go straight up after that. So I don't think there's going to be a market crash, in other words.

Speaker 1 Let me tell you how much of my money I pulled out of the market in fear of a market crash. Precisely zero.

Speaker 1 Okay. As a matter of fact, I'm steadily investing.
Real estate and stock market both.

Speaker 1 Okay. There's a boom a coming, baby.
Ride the wave. All right.
Now, here's the thing. When you're meeting with those investors, how intimidated are you?

Speaker 3 I'm not intimidated. Well, I can't say that.
I don't really understand it all.

Speaker 1 There you go.

Speaker 3 That's where I'm very lost at what to do.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 I've got a bunch of Gen Z's in their 20s that work here. We've got a whole bunch of digital products at Ramsey.
I know nothing about it.

Speaker 1 They work for me, but they're smarter than me, and I have no idea what they're talking about. You know what what I'm talking about?

Speaker 1 So I go into a room full of them the other day and I'm like, hey, they're talking and they're using letters and all this stuff like they're in the military. I have no idea what they're talking about.

Speaker 1 I'm like, hey, guys,

Speaker 1 just humor the old guy who writes your check.

Speaker 1 Tell me what the flip is going on in this room. Explain like I'm five.
Explain it till I understand it because you work here and work for me. My name's on the building.
I'm not being mean about this.

Speaker 1 I'm just really curious what it is we do in this room.

Speaker 1 So they spent about 30 minutes teaching me with a good spirit. and I had a good spirit of receptively listening and learning because I really did want to know what they were doing.

Speaker 1 I'm always perpetually curious around here. And that's what you're going to do.
These people work for you, these investing advisors,

Speaker 1 meaning you can fire them at a drop of a hat if they're not good at explaining or if they make you feel insecure with their snotty approach.

Speaker 1 So you're looking for the heart of a teacher with anyone giving you advice because your job is not to hire someone else to do this for you.

Speaker 1 Your job is to hire someone to teach you to do it for yourself.

Speaker 1 Okay. That way you won't lose the money.

Speaker 3 That's my fear.

Speaker 1 You're not going to lose it.

Speaker 1 You're going to go slow and you're not going to put it in anything you don't understand.

Speaker 1 Okay. And you remember, everything that's written on the internet is true.
Abraham Lincoln said that.

Speaker 3 Yeah, that's what my friends say. If it's not on Facebook, it's not true.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it doesn't happen, right? So stay off the internet for for financial advice. All right.
Sit down and talk to old-seasoned people who will teach you. And when you come away from the meeting,

Speaker 1 you feel two things, smarter and peaceful.

Speaker 1 If you don't have that sense in your spirit, if you don't feel more confident, smarter, and peaceful, you got the wrong people in your corner. That's what you're looking for.

Speaker 1 If you do that, you won't lose the money. Right, George? Yeah.

Speaker 3 Do you think it's better to invest it or just keep like divide 250,000 of banks until I feel better?

Speaker 1 I put $3 million into the stock market last week.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 1 25% is what the stock market went up last year.

Speaker 1 That's 25% of $3 million.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 What do you make, Angela? What do you make from your job?

Speaker 1 10% is $300,000, by the way.

Speaker 3 I'm actually retired.

Speaker 3 I bring $62,000 in. I have a couple of defined benefit pension plans.

Speaker 1 Good.

Speaker 3 Yeah, and my husband makes about $110,000 a year. Okay.

Speaker 1 So if you put $1 million in and it makes 20%, that's $200,000. If instead you put it into a savings account because you're scared and you don't learn and you make 1%, you lost $200,000.

Speaker 3 That's a much better way of looking at it.

Speaker 1 That's opportunity costs. It's called opportunity costs.
You missed an opportunity by not learning. So learn, learn, learn, learn, learn.

Speaker 1 Get comfortable and don't invest in the stock market or in real estate if you're wanting to do a short-term play. You want to think, I'm not going to touch this for five years once I put it in there.

Speaker 1 If you do that and then you just turn off the news, you'll be okay. But learn, learn, learn, learn, learn.
You and your husband sit down with these advisors.

Speaker 1 And if you want some more to have the heart of a teacher, go to ramseysolutions.com and click on Smart Vestra Pros, Smart Investor Pros, and find the ones in your area. Interview two or three.

Speaker 1 Talk to tax people, real estate people, insurance people, until they have the heart of a teacher.

Speaker 1 If they're snotting you, they drop their glasses down on the end of their nose and they have all the answers and you're just the stupid little people who got lucky. You have a million dollars.

Speaker 1 They don't. So tell them to shut up.
They're fired. This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John.
Why don't people want to take care of their family?

Speaker 1 They think they're not going to die or something?

Speaker 4 Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it.
And one of my buddies said, hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids.

Speaker 4 And I immediately went and got term life insurance.

Speaker 1 That's a gut punch.

Speaker 4 For decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them.
Me too.

Speaker 1 They don't know what to do next.

Speaker 1 You're going to have a crisis here. You know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow.

Speaker 1 She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned about how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly.
These are the two options.

Speaker 1 It's saying I love you to your family. Term life insurance.
Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years.

Speaker 1 They're the only people I trust. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282.

Speaker 1 This is The Ramsey Show. George Campbell, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host.
George, when you were a wee toddler, there was a fabulous comedian out named Steve Martin.

Speaker 2 Oh, I love Steve.

Speaker 1 And he had a whole bit that said,

Speaker 1 you need to get a million dollars and not pay taxes. He said, how do you want to be a millionaire and not pay taxes? He said, the first thing you do is you get a million dollars.

Speaker 1 And then you don't pay taxes. Yeah,

Speaker 1 it was a funny bit. But,

Speaker 1 you know, when I get a call from someone, like our last caller before the break, Angela, and she got a million dollars from the lottery, I always think, where does money come from?

Speaker 1 Where does wealth come from? And there's a lot of places you can get money. You can win the lottery.
You can have a rich uncle that dies and leave you a million dollars. You can

Speaker 1 be

Speaker 1 scuba diving in the Caribbean and find gold bars from a Spanish. galleon that wrecked.

Speaker 2 It sounds personal.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, that could happen. I mean, people, you know, there's a lot of treasure hunt.
You could do all kinds of things.

Speaker 2 Get a settlement check, sell a business.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 you could be in a car wreck. I mean, you could get a million dollars from a lot of places and become wealthy.
What we are in the business of, however, here is giving you a path

Speaker 1 that has a super high

Speaker 1 probability of working.

Speaker 1 not a super low probability of working.

Speaker 1 Now, if you get a million dollars from a low probability, like not a chance it's happening again, like winning the lottery, we're going to celebrate with you because we were nice to Angela and we want to celebrate with her.

Speaker 1 But I don't want you folk out there to misunderstand that the lottery is a high probability of building wealth. As a matter of fact, statistically, it is a tax on poor people.

Speaker 1 Most people that play the lottery live in lower income zip codes. In the state of Tennessee, we have this wonderful program where the lottery money is used to send people to college.

Speaker 1 The people that go to college in Tennessee using the lottery money are typically middle-class and upper-class kids

Speaker 1 going to college on lottery money that was paid by poor people playing the lottery in lower-income zip codes who never use those scholarships. So it's a completely bogus, horrible system.

Speaker 1 Now, Angela benefited from it. I'm not mad at her.
We'll help her and celebrate with her that she became a millionaire with this.

Speaker 1 But I want you folks to know, here's the actual, this is hilarious to me, but it's mathematically factual. Okay.

Speaker 1 If you walk

Speaker 1 one mile to the market to buy the lottery ticket, you are 12 times more likely to be struck by lightning twice

Speaker 1 during the one-mile walk. That's statistically.
Wow. than you are to buy the winning lottery ticket.

Speaker 1 That's how bad this program sucks.

Speaker 2 And people go, I'll take my chances, Dave.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'll get struck by lightning twice. I mean,

Speaker 1 number of people that, I mean, really, I mean, it's like something off of Instagram, but no. Okay.
I want a high probability.

Speaker 1 I want something that works most of the time for average intelligence people because that's what I am. I don't want to have to be a genius.

Speaker 1 I don't want to have to be lucky beyond statistical probability. I want something that works.
And that's what we teach here.

Speaker 1 So, but if you were to come into wealth by one of these other weird means, George and all the other

Speaker 1 personalities, we will celebrate with you. We love you.
If you have a rich uncle, you're the one that did. I always wonder who it was.
It was you. Because it wasn't me and it wasn't George.
No.

Speaker 1 If I had one, he didn't leave me any money. I don't know where he is.
I might be the rich uncle, but I'm not leaving the nephews anything. It's all going to my kids.

Speaker 2 No one's ever left you in their will?

Speaker 1 No. Yeah, my grandmother did.
I got $5,000 from her. Hey.

Speaker 2 The tiny lottery.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we were just married, and I have no idea where that money went. It's gone, just poof.
It just disappeared.

Speaker 2 I blame Sharon.

Speaker 1 Like mist in the wind. But that's the deal, Polk.
So anyway, I just want you to know, just because we celebrate with someone who had a good event does not mean that's an endorsement

Speaker 1 of that methodology, okay?

Speaker 1 12 times more likely to be struck by lightning twice in a one-mile walk

Speaker 1 than you are statistically to buy a winning lottery ticket. That's pretty low odds.
Just saying. All right.
Samuel's with us in Los Angeles, California. Hi, Samuel.
How are you?

Speaker 3 Good. Good morning, guys.
Thank you for having me on the show.

Speaker 1 Our pleasure. How can we help you?

Speaker 3 Yeah, so my name is Samuel Barron. I'm 26 years old.
I've been following your principles since I was a teenager, about 18, 19.

Speaker 3 Your advice on living debt-free and investing has helped me build a $5 million net worth at 26.

Speaker 1 Way to go. Wow.

Speaker 3 Thank you. I have a big question, and I'm really confused on what's next.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 I made my first million at 22. I invested all my profits I made.

Speaker 3 I still live in my mom's living room, and I eat McDonald's and Chipotle every single day,

Speaker 3 which isn't the best. But my question is, what's the meaning of life when the money game feels solved?

Speaker 3 Is it about starting a family or buying the dream home that I've been looking at for the past eight years? Or is it something deeper?

Speaker 1 Oh, good for you. How old did you say you are? 25?

Speaker 1 26. 26.
Cool. I appreciate you calling, dude.

Speaker 1 I'll take a stab at it. Number one, $5 million, the money game's not soft.

Speaker 1 Okay?

Speaker 1 You can screw this up in about 20 minutes, have nothing. I had $4 million worth of real estate when I was 26, and I went completely bankrupt by the time I was 30.
So you can screw this up.

Speaker 1 It's not over.

Speaker 1 But you have done a wonderful job. Congratulations.
So,

Speaker 1 I mean, if you got 500 million, we'll talk about slowing down. But 5 million, no, you're not there yet.

Speaker 1 So, but what you're figuring out is that just stacking cash doesn't have meaning, and I'll go along with that for sure. Well done.
And you've done a wonderful job of stacking cash. You're amazing.

Speaker 1 Congratulations, sir.

Speaker 1 But what we figured out a long time ago, I met God on the way up. I got to know him on the way down when I lost everything, Samuel.

Speaker 1 And what I've learned as a person of faith is that true joy comes through serving, not through getting.

Speaker 1 Giving, not getting.

Speaker 1 Adding value, not taking value. And so

Speaker 1 I think you'll have a level of happiness when you just go get you an apartment and a better diet.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm working on it. Yeah, no, I mean, really.
I mean, like by the end of the week, I want you in an apartment. You need to get out of your mother's living room.
You're 26 years old.

Speaker 1 You got $5 million.

Speaker 1 What the flip are you doing at home? Go be a man.

Speaker 3 Here's the thing: I bought a quadriplex in L.A. last year,

Speaker 3 but it's fully owner-occupied, so I couldn't.

Speaker 1 That was a good thing. Oh, that's fine.
Go get an apartment. I didn't say you had to move into that.

Speaker 3 Well, yeah, I mean, you're right.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I am right.

Speaker 3 The whole reason why I've been working is I just want this. house that I've been looking at for years,

Speaker 3 and that's what I'm...

Speaker 1 Yeah, but when you get that it's going to have the same exact feeling it's just a stupid house

Speaker 1 every time you get a nice thing there's a better one and some goober on the internet will show it to you the algorithm in your social media feed will go man you should own 20 properties by the time you're 26 and so the goalpost is always going to keep moving until you decide I want you to save up for that house too I don't mind that but dude I don't know what the flip you're doing to make money but you're doing a great job of handling the money but you're but what you're telling me is is that all of your effort and energy and psychology and spirituality has been aimed at one target, and that's money.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 that's a pretty stupid target. It's a good target, but it's not the all-encompassing target.
So go have a life, too.

Speaker 1 I mean, I want you to go enjoy some meals with a beautiful woman called a date and go get you an apartment and like a life. Have you got a car?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I have a

Speaker 1 different.

Speaker 3 Yeah, so me and my girlfriend have been together since middle school, and we've done all the

Speaker 1 why is she hanging out with you when you still live in your mother's living room?

Speaker 3 I mean, she tells me the same thing.

Speaker 1 That's what I hear it. I hear it all the time.

Speaker 1 I love you, man. You're awesome.
You are a great guy. You're amazing.
Thank you so much for calling.

Speaker 1 Hey, man, really, go invest some of this in your, in having a quality life, not just in investments.

Speaker 2 You got a flat tire right now.

Speaker 1 You got the money part down.

Speaker 2 Let's focus on spiritual growth, physical health, social relationships, family. That's what's going to give you a lot more purpose on top of doing what Dave said and giving and serving.

Speaker 1 I was just a little bit younger than you when I landed in a good church. Changed my life.
It taught me how to serve. And there's more joy in serving and giving.

Speaker 1 than there is in taking and adding and stacking cash. Go stack you some cash, but go have a life too, my man.
It's time. Today's the day.
Move out now. Like with this week, Friday.
Friday.

Speaker 1 That's your deadline. This is the Ramsey Chef.

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Speaker 1 George Campbell Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America, in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage.
David is with us. Hi, David.
How are you?

Speaker 1 I'm doing real well. Good, man.
Where do you live?

Speaker 6 I live in Wildemart, south of Los Angeles.

Speaker 1 Cool. Welcome to Nashville.
Thank you. And all the way on the other side of the United States to do a debt-free screen, baby.
Of course. I love it.
How much did you pay off?

Speaker 6 $230,000.

Speaker 1 Wow. How long did this take you?

Speaker 6 Six years and four months.

Speaker 1 Wow. Good for you.
Good for you. And what was your range of income during that time? Well,

Speaker 6 my income was about $200,000 a year.

Speaker 1 Mm-hmm. Cool.
And what do you do for a living?

Speaker 6 I'm a salesman for a packaging company.

Speaker 1 Very good. Excellent, man.
What kind of debt was this $230,000?

Speaker 6 Well, it was my mortgage, and so I used my side job, which is real estate, to pay that off.

Speaker 1 You paid off your house? Yes. In California? Yes.
No less. Well done, sir.
Thank you. Boom, boom, boom.
I'm looking at weird people.

Speaker 1 A paid-for house just south of Los Angeles. What's this house worth?

Speaker 1 About $600,000. Way to go, man.
How much have you got in your retirement, Nestic?

Speaker 1 A little over a million. All right.
So worth almost $2 million. How old are you?

Speaker 6 64.

Speaker 1 I love it, man. Congratulations.
Thank you. Whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop.
How's that feel?

Speaker 6 It feels great. It feels great.
It's actually,

Speaker 6 since I paid it off in December, not to have a mortgage since January is just, it's awesome.

Speaker 1 It's just like, you feel like no weight on your shoulders. That's right.

Speaker 6 Nothing's being taken out.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I love it. Very good.
So what inspired you to try to do this six years ago at, what, 58 years old? You said, I'm going to pay off my house fast.

Speaker 6 Well,

Speaker 6 what I did was I had like a PMI on my original mortgage, and so they wouldn't take it off, so I had to find another mortgage company to take the PMI off.

Speaker 6 And it was actually owed $270, so what I did was I had some money saved up from real estate, and when I refinanced, I actually wired the money to the new lender.

Speaker 6 So that dropped it from $270 to $230, and they were going, well, why don't you just take money out? So that was my situation.

Speaker 1 Okay. How'd you run into all this Ramsey stuff?

Speaker 6 Years ago in church,

Speaker 1 a program.

Speaker 6 And so the snowball has always been in my mind.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 And just decided I'm going to knock this house out. Absolutely.
Man, that's so cool.

Speaker 2 Now you mentioned this side hustle of doing real estate that helped to pay it off. What were you doing?

Speaker 6 Well, I'd do a couple deals a year

Speaker 6 specializing in probate, and I just really liked it. It was like a hobby, and that's really what helped me with the big chunks of change to pay it off.

Speaker 1 So you were finding deals out of estates that were good bargains and flipping them?

Speaker 6 No, not flipping, just being the listing agent.

Speaker 1 Oh, okay. You're selling them, helping the people solve the problem.
Yeah,

Speaker 6 calling the family and sharing

Speaker 6 what I can do for them.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 that's how I did it. Good for you.
Wow, that's neat. So

Speaker 1 good commissions then.

Speaker 6 Yeah, good commissions to be able to do that. And so that helped me a lot.

Speaker 2 Plus a great income.

Speaker 6 Absolutely.

Speaker 1 Very, very cool. So who was your biggest cheerleader while you're doing all this?

Speaker 6 Pretty much just, it was me. I'm my own.
Well, one of the reasons I'm here is I'm doing this for my kids so I can be an example.

Speaker 1 Oh, okay. Very cool.
How old are your kiddos?

Speaker 6 Let's see.

Speaker 6 35, 33.

Speaker 6 I got one in the Navy. He's 26.
And then my youngest is 21.

Speaker 1 All right. Very good.
Very good. Cool.
Good for you. Well, it is a good example.
They can look over there and go, look, he saved money. He paid off his house.
He's got a couple million dollars.

Speaker 1 He's 64 years old. He's not going to to be calling us for food.

Speaker 2 Sigh of relief from the kids. We don't have to take care of dad in his old age.
He's going to be just fine with his big old nest egg and paid-for house.

Speaker 1 That's great. Yeah.
Well done, sir. I'm very proud of you.
Thank you, Dave. Very good.
Very well done. I appreciate you making the trip over here.
Of course.

Speaker 1 So, what made you decide I'm going all the way to Nashville to do this? Why did that mean something?

Speaker 6 Well, you know, the last six years, I knew that this is what I can do. I wanted to come here.
I do it for my kids, but also,

Speaker 6 you know, the goal of being debt-free, and there's there's no other place to come except here.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we're the place that lets you celebrate it. That's for sure.
Yeah. Well, good, man.
Very cool. We're honored that

Speaker 1 we would be what you'd look forward to. This stage is what you'd look forward to.

Speaker 1 Pretty, very, pretty neat.

Speaker 2 What's next for you? What are you doing with the freed-up mortgage payment?

Speaker 6 You know what? I'm going to actually fix my house. I didn't do anything to it.
It needs flooring. It needs a bunch of stuff.
So I sacrificed that for getting this thing to pay.

Speaker 1 You put off the remodel. That's right.
Yeah. Okay.

Speaker 2 Cash flow pretty easily now.

Speaker 1 Yes, absolutely.

Speaker 1 So when someone's listening and they're in their 50s and they say, I've still got a quarter million dollars owed on a house, what do you tell them the secret to getting out of debt is?

Speaker 6 Well, I really think that if you can get a job, a side job that can really help you out

Speaker 6 and help you make those snowball payments,

Speaker 6 slowly but surely it works. The whole thing reminds me of that book where the red fern grows.
And that young man, it took him two two years to save $40,

Speaker 1 and he bought two hounds.

Speaker 6 And that's how, you know, it goes quick, but it's just little steps. And I would say the side job is what really saved me.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 You weren't scared of work. It propelled you.
That's for sure. Yes.
Excellent job, David. Good stuff.
All right. Now, what was the town called again? Wildemar.
Wildemara. Wildemar, California.
Yes.

Speaker 1 South of Los Angeles. I'm learning my geography right now.

Speaker 1 $230,000 paid off in six years and four months. That's house and everything.

Speaker 1 House is worth about $600,000. Got about a million in the old retirement.
So getting bumping up towards $2 million net worth at 64 years old. Congratulations, David.
You did it.

Speaker 1 We're proud of you, hero. Count it down.
Let's hear a debt-free scream. Debt-free!

Speaker 2 Got it right to the chase.

Speaker 1 That's six years worth of waiting. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I love it. Get to use your outdoor voice indoors.
That's the joy of the debt-free scream. Cathartic.

Speaker 1 It is. But you know what?

Speaker 1 So few people do it. I mean, he's one of the rare people out there called millionaires, baby steps millionaires.
They follow the baby steps.

Speaker 1 They got out of debt, paid off their house, built their retirement. built their kids' college in some cases, not his.
But,

Speaker 1 you know, you do all those things, and then you look over there and there's a stinking pile of money. And you're okay.
Everything's going to be okay.

Speaker 1 And mainly because of the habits you built during that time, the character you built during that time, you get transformed in the process.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that patience and delayed gratification. I mean, you heard him saying, I've lived on less than I made.
I put off things and it's worth it. I mean, six years feels like a long time.

Speaker 2 It's going to happen. It's going to fly by.
You're going to be 64 at one point or another.

Speaker 2 So do you want to have a paid for house or do you want to have lifestyle creep take over and you've got a pile of debt going? I hope I can retire one day.

Speaker 1 That's normal in America. Yeah.
I mean, last week we took calls from a 71-year-old who had no money and didn't know how she was going to eat.

Speaker 1 A guy who was in his mid-70s, had no money, didn't know how he was going to eat, counting on social insecurity.

Speaker 1 You work your whole life and I'm going to count on the government, which is well known for its ability to handle money to take care of me. That's a dumb plan.
But not David.

Speaker 1 David doesn't have a house payment. He's sitting on a million bucks in retirement?

Speaker 1 Yeah, sitting on plenty of income and still, you know, enjoying his work and even enjoying the side hustle, which is pretty lucrative, obviously. So very cool.
Very well done.

Speaker 1 That's how you do it, folks. I mean, it doesn't happen accidentally, this winning thing.
No.

Speaker 2 In our millionaire study, we found what average millionaire happens at 49 years old and they pay off their house in 10.2 years. That's the average.
And so he probably fell right in there.

Speaker 2 He's a little faster on the mortgage payoff, but it's really not rocket science, and it's really not that impressive when you look at what was going on there.

Speaker 2 They just consistently put money away, consistently made extra mortgage payments.

Speaker 1 There was no rocket science. It is impressive because no one else do it, does it, but it's not superhuman.
Yeah. It's not, it's not out of reach.
You can just decide, I'm going to do that.

Speaker 1 And that's all he did. He was just a very decisive person.
He just said,

Speaker 1 very low-key. I'm just going to do it.
Yeah. Unassuming.

Speaker 1 I'm just going to go win. I'm going to go win the Super Bowl.
And then I can scream I'm debt-free on the Ramsey Solutions debt-free state.

Speaker 2 Worth it.

Speaker 1 I love it.

Speaker 1 And we got a gift for him, two every dollar subscriptions that he can use or give to someone else to kickstart their journey got those kids in their 30s we hand that hand that stuff off right there keep it going keep it going he said he wanted to be an example for them that's how this works this is the ramsey show

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Speaker 1 Our question of the day is brought to you by YReFi, our defaulted private student loan payments dragging you down. Why ReFi could help you save thousands of dollars?

Speaker 1 Visit YReFi.com/slash Ramsey to see how they can help. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y.com/slash Ramsey.
Might not be in all states.

Speaker 2 Today's question comes from Shelby in Idaho. My husband and I have been married for 15 years and have two children.
We're on baby steps four, five, and six.

Speaker 2 Last year, he was diagnosed with leukemia and underwent chemo and a bone marrow transplant. My husband's estranged sister was a perfect match, which probably saved his life.

Speaker 2 Now she has gotten herself deep in debt, trying to flip houses and rent out Airbnbs, and has started asking us for money. We already gave her several thousand dollars last month.

Speaker 2 We have heard from other relatives that she has started asking them for large amounts as well. My husband feels obligated to give her money because she saved his life, and we know she'll be asking

Speaker 2 us again soon. How should we respond?

Speaker 1 Whew.

Speaker 1 There was no,

Speaker 1 if I give you bone marrow, you give me money contract here, nor was there any implied

Speaker 1 thing like that.

Speaker 1 What you do want to do is help someone you love anytime you can help someone you love.

Speaker 1 But no, he's not obligated. to give her money to rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic

Speaker 1 Because she's going down.

Speaker 1 And if you give her $10,000,

Speaker 1 it doesn't help. She has bigger problems than $10,000.

Speaker 1 If you give her $1,000, it doesn't help. You're rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
So what you've got to do is say, okay, she helped

Speaker 1 me.

Speaker 1 Now I'm going to help

Speaker 1 her.

Speaker 1 Now let's define what help is. What does sister really need?

Speaker 1 Well, she needs to stop doing this stupid butt stuff she's doing that's killing her.

Speaker 1 Not you throw money into her LSD financial trip here.

Speaker 1 This is nuts.

Speaker 1 And so real help, real love is to sit down and say, sister, you gave me the gift of life and I'm going to give you a gift in return. The financial plan that you are on is going to bankrupt you

Speaker 1 and I don't want to see you hurt. You need to stop this.
You need to confront her stupidity. That is an act of courage.
That is an act of love.

Speaker 1 That is helping.

Speaker 1 Giving money, giving a drunk a drink, giving a money to a cocaine addict so they can buy their cocaine is not love.

Speaker 1 And this is financial cocaine this woman's on.

Speaker 1 I'm deeply leveraged. I'm losing money on Airbnb.
Oh, shoot me.

Speaker 1 You got all your dadgum real estate advice off of TikTok. Oh, my God.
Of course it's failing.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you can't compare the health crisis that he went through and go, hey, the quid pro quo is I support financial misbehavior for the rest of my life. That's not going to work.

Speaker 2 So it's going to be a tough conversation.

Speaker 1 Well, and you can't save her. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And it might hurt the relationship.

Speaker 1 Unless you got a million dollars, you want to bail her out completely. of all these mortgages, you can't save her because the track she's on is a bankruptcy track.

Speaker 2 This vending machine is going to keep eating your money.

Speaker 1 Now, the only thing you can do is step in front of the train and say, I love you, stop the train.

Speaker 1 Because I love you, I'm going to tell you the truth. No one's telling you the truth.
The emperor has no clothes. What you are doing is straight up stupid.

Speaker 1 You're going to bankrupt.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 most people won't tell somebody that they supposedly love the truth.

Speaker 1 They just, they'll do anything to keep keep from telling, because it sounds like conflict. But that's real love.
That's real help.

Speaker 1 Real love is when my children were little, I made them brush their teeth so they have some later,

Speaker 1 even if they don't want to.

Speaker 1 Real love is you did some uncomfortable things if you were a Ramsey child growing up because we were not trying to raise great kids. We were trying to raise kids who became great adults.

Speaker 1 And so real love involved some things that were uncomfortable for their short term and comfortable for their long term, like get your freaking homework done.

Speaker 1 In today's world, it means when you're at Papa Dave's, we're not big on screens.

Speaker 1 So, grandpa and grandma, we want to like talk to you and look at your freaking little eyes. Put that crap down, you know? Oh, my God.
And so, I mean, yeah, that's real love.

Speaker 1 Does a four-year-old love that? No, they hate it. I don't want to go to Papa Dave's.
He won't let me play games for 73 hours on my iPad.

Speaker 1 Well, then keep your little butt home because when you come to my house, squeeze it at Papa Dave's rules at Papa Dave's house. Sorry, that's the way that works.

Speaker 1 You've now entered my domain, little person. That's how it works.
So we love you so much. We're going to do all kinds of wonderful things for your good, including hurt your little feelings.

Speaker 1 And that's what you need to do for your sister, buddy. Not give her money and support her stupidity in the name of you help me with my bone marrow.

Speaker 1 It's wonderful that you all have this kind of relationship that she was willing to do that because that's a painful operation and it's a hard process.

Speaker 1 But it doesn't mean you support her destroying herself. You do quite the opposite if you really love her.
Well, that's tough love. No, darling, it's real love.

Speaker 1 It's not tough love.

Speaker 1 Tough love, I mean,

Speaker 1 what's the opposite of tough love? Enabling?

Speaker 1 Entitlement? No. No.

Speaker 1 You've got a choice. You've got to choose healthy.
There's no more money for the failed program. We're not putting fuel in the Titanic.

Speaker 1 We need to pull up alongside the dock and get some fuel because we're going to go sink this thing. It's getting the dinghies out.

Speaker 1 Not with Papa Dave's money. Not doing it.
Nope, nope, nope. And not with your money.
Stop it. It's not real love, guys.

Speaker 1 You just love somebody. You have to be kind and courageous and very clear that they have to stop doing the thing that is hurting them.

Speaker 1 And you will support them in that process, but you will not support them in the process of self-destruction because I love you, because you did something sacrificial for me.

Speaker 1 That's the very reason I will not participate in this delusional bullcrap.

Speaker 1 Is that, I mean, people don't talk like that anymore, but we need them to.

Speaker 1 That's real freaking love. Dave is in Grand Rapids, Michigan.
Hi, Dave. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 3 Hey, thanks for taking the call.

Speaker 1 Sure. What's up?

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 my wife and I are living in a house. We're renting from her parents, and we're thinking of buying the place from them.

Speaker 3 But my wife is very nervous about the idea of getting into any sort of debt, and I'm not sure that we've actually saved up enough to do it.

Speaker 1 Are you debt-free?

Speaker 3 We are.

Speaker 1 We have always been. Good.
How much money do you have saved?

Speaker 3 Well, we have our six-month emergency fund, and then on top of that, we have about $12,000.

Speaker 1 Okay. And how expensive is this property?

Speaker 3 We're actually in the process of trying to determine that.

Speaker 1 Oh, come on. Give me a rank.

Speaker 3 Honestly, it could be anything from $90,000 to $145,000.

Speaker 1 Okay. We don't know.
It's not super expensive, and $12,000 will get you into it.

Speaker 3 No, it's a...

Speaker 1 What's your household income?

Speaker 3 I

Speaker 3 have been bringing home home consistently about $64 a year, and I'm hoping to have that up above 80 this year.

Speaker 1 She does not work outside the home.

Speaker 3 No, we have two kids under three. Cool.

Speaker 1 Okay. She works, but just not outside the home.
Okay.

Speaker 1 She does a lot of work.

Speaker 1 I can imagine. Oh, my gosh.

Speaker 1 The numbers all work.

Speaker 1 You could buy the house with $12,000 down on a 15-year fix. No problem.
Oh.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 No reason not to do it. The only question I've got for you is, if you were living in a one-bedroom apartment and this house came on the market, would you be interested in it?

Speaker 1 Or are you just ending up here because it happens to be all in the family?

Speaker 3 No,

Speaker 3 I would be interested in it. The only thing about it is that we're outgrowing the house.
And so...

Speaker 1 Well, if you're in a one-bedroom apartment or two-bedroom apartment, you've got two little kids or three-bedroom, whatever, if you're renting somewhere you weren't emotionally attached to and had no relatives tied to it, would you come buy this house?

Speaker 1 If the answer is yes, then buy it. You're financially ready.
What do you think, George?

Speaker 2 Yeah. And if you want to save up a little more and do this in six months, that's fine too.

Speaker 2 You just got to weigh it out and go, we got to get a little less house, but the mortgage payment is probably going to be about a thousand bucks. So it's reasonable for your income.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 the numbers work on this. You can do this on a 15-year fixed and you're fine.
But just don't buy something because it's handy and the in-laws said do it. That's never a good reason.

Speaker 1 Buy it because it's something you would have bought anyway. And if that's the case, then game on, baby.
You're ready. You've done a good job.
Man, that's cool. This is the Ramsey Show.

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Speaker 1 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

Speaker 1 George Camill, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today. Open phones here at 888-825-5225.

Speaker 1 He's also the co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruz, one of our top shows here on the Ramsey Networks. If you've not checked that out on YouTube or podcasts, you should.

Speaker 1 They are way more fun than they should be allowed. And we even pay them for having that much fun.

Speaker 2 I can't believe I get paid to do it.

Speaker 1 You two goof off. Just get on there and

Speaker 1 make yourselves really popular. And I pay you for the opportunity.
You greenlit the show. I'm telling you.
I actually did attend it finally. Yeah, it was great and had a lot of fun with you.

Speaker 2 And you're one of our our top performing episodes. So, no way.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 No way. I don't think you beat Sharon Ramsey's episode.

Speaker 1 Nobody beats Sharon Ramsey.

Speaker 2 You can't touch that.

Speaker 1 If you do, you don't tell her. So I'm just saying.
Just let her.

Speaker 1 She gets to win all the time. That's the rule at our house.
All right. Carly is in Washington, D.C.
Hey, Carly, what's up?

Speaker 3 Hi.

Speaker 3 So my question is:

Speaker 3 My mom just paid off my brother's credit card debt,

Speaker 3 which is about $70,000.

Speaker 1 What?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I know. I know.

Speaker 1 I know. And you have thoughts on that.

Speaker 3 I do too.

Speaker 3 I begged her not to do it, but that's what happened.

Speaker 3 She's offering to give me the same amount of money to be fair, I guess, or equal. Like we're, it's just the two siblings.
And I'm conflicted about whether to take the money.

Speaker 1 Are there strings attached? Is it a loan?

Speaker 3 No. No, no, no, no, no.
It's just, she just feels like...

Speaker 1 Has she got a lot of money?

Speaker 3 She does.

Speaker 3 She can afford to do it.

Speaker 3 I think she feels guilty for giving him the money because I think she knows she shouldn't have.

Speaker 1 No, no, I think she's just, I mean,

Speaker 1 my grandmother and my wife are the same way, that whatever one of them gets, the other one gets. I mean,

Speaker 1 no guilt. It's just all.
I accuse her of being a socialist,

Speaker 1 but, you know, I don't think everything ought to be fair.

Speaker 1 I think fair is where the cotton candy and the tilted whirl is, but um, but but my mother, my grandmother and my wife are exactly the same way.

Speaker 1 They would have done, they would definitely have done this, and no guilt at all. It's just like, well, that's what you're supposed to do.
You do it for one, you do it for the other.

Speaker 1 It's real simple in their minds.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And it was her idea? She came to you and said, Hey, listen, you know what happened. I'd love to give you this money, too.

Speaker 3 Yes, she came to me. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 I think you need to drop the guilt for taking it.

Speaker 1 Could you you use 70 grand right now? Everybody could. Send it to me.

Speaker 3 Right. I mean, we have three kids.
Like, obviously, it would be helpful, but we, you know, we're not like.

Speaker 1 You weren't asking for it. You're not needy.
You're not begging. She has a million dollars or whatever.
And if she gives away $140 of it at this age of life, it doesn't affect her, right?

Speaker 3 Right. Correct.

Speaker 2 Here's my take. We're Southern Baptists over here.
We call that blocking a blessing. You don't want to block a blessing.

Speaker 1 That's what you're doing right now by not allowing your mom to give you this money.

Speaker 1 Don't do that.

Speaker 1 I didn't say no.

Speaker 3 I just felt like conflicted about it.

Speaker 3 Because also my brother does not have a lot of,

Speaker 3 doesn't have a high earning potential. He just doesn't have...

Speaker 1 That's not your fault.

Speaker 3 The situation that I'm in with my husband and that.

Speaker 1 It's not your fault.

Speaker 1 Okay. You didn't cause any of this.

Speaker 1 You just showed up to the party in the DNA pool.

Speaker 2 Right? This is you're the prodigal son's brother, right? Prodigal son misbehaved. Dad comes home and says, hey, party at my house.
Prodigal son's back.

Speaker 2 And now you get to come to the party too and enjoy the feast. I see no problem with this.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 Regardless of my opinion of going 70 grand to debt and then having it get out of jail free card, the fact that she wants to give you this money has no bearing on what happens.

Speaker 1 Any of that, yeah.

Speaker 1 As long as there's no, as long as she's not going to come over and start managing your business after this okay no strings attached she's good at she's good at boundaries and you are too right

Speaker 2 yes okay do you harbor resentment for your sibling

Speaker 3 you know um

Speaker 3 a little bit a little bit there's like a lot of backstory here yeah a little bit i mean i love him and i want to help him and i feel like we've done everything we can and he's just not taking the help so It's hard.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 You're a good person. You are.

Speaker 1 You are.

Speaker 1 I agree. I agree.

Speaker 1 Now, the last thing is there's a little technical issue here. That's more than you can give an individual from an individual without getting into gift tax.

Speaker 1 So she needs to investigate with her tax preparer or her estate planning attorney.

Speaker 1 Write this down, the Unified Estate Tax Credit. She needs to use up some of her federal exemption.
on these two gifts to keep from getting gift taxed at 55%

Speaker 1 it is right now.

Speaker 2 So you've got to file all the right forms with the IRS.

Speaker 1 Mom's got a little paperwork to do or mom is going to get spanked by the IRS and you don't want that. There's no need.
One simple piece of paper will keep that from happening.

Speaker 1 An individual cannot give an individual $70,000

Speaker 1 without gift tax and without utilizing something like the Unified Estate Tax Credit, using some of your federal estate tax exemption towards the gift. That's what it amounts to.

Speaker 1 So please make sure because mom may never file it, but someday they might audit her and then, oh my goodness, we're going to have a $40,000 or a $50,000 tax bill on these things.

Speaker 1 And you just don't want that. It's not a good idea.
Open phones here at 888-825-5225. You jump in.
We'll talk about your life and your money.

Speaker 1 You know, that's

Speaker 1 last hour. We had the

Speaker 1 question about the bone marrow. And do I have to take care of

Speaker 1 my sisters?

Speaker 1 Do I have to give her money for misbehaving with money? Now, brother's misbehaving with money. Mom bails him out.
And so there's a

Speaker 1 I think a lot of the questions that people have, and a lot of questions we get around here are around this idea of

Speaker 1 how do I be kind to

Speaker 1 ridiculous extended family behaviors regarding money? Asking for money, expecting money, being entitled to money,

Speaker 1 mom, you know, taking care of, basically enabling a brother probably is what she's saying. She's a little bit bitter about that.
I don't blame her.

Speaker 1 And then how do I respond to her wanting to give me money so she feels better about herself? Which is kind of what she's doing, probably. Yeah.
But, man, there's a lot of stuff going on there. So

Speaker 1 money does not make the world go round.

Speaker 1 Try it again. Money does not make the world go.
It does not fix broken hearts. It does not make bad behavior become good behavior.
It does not make lack of discipline look like discipline.

Speaker 1 Money doesn't fix those things.

Speaker 1 When you pour money on messes, it makes the messes bigger.

Speaker 2 Magnifies.

Speaker 1 It doesn't make them smaller. It actually,

Speaker 1 yeah, it peels back any illusion that this was okay and makes it just really look stupid. Money does that.
It magnifies

Speaker 1 good character and bad character, good behavior and bad behavior. But money in and of itself is not a salve.

Speaker 1 It doesn't fix everything for you. I'll be okay.
No, you won't. You'll still be mad.
You'll still have a broken heart. You'll still, it's, that's not what it's for.
This is the Ramsey show.

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Speaker 1 Are you sick and tired of being sick and tired? You can take control of your money and your relationships. And it starts with just one night.
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Speaker 1 George Camel Ramsey personality is my co-host today.

Speaker 1 Michelle is in Cincinnati. Hi, Michelle.
Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 3 Hi, Dave. Thanks so much for taking my call.

Speaker 3 I am on Baby Step 2. I have been on Baby Step 2 for about a year.

Speaker 3 My conundrum is I have an opportunity to take a job in a really remote location,

Speaker 3 really far away from family. My kids are grown, but I was widowed about 25 years ago and raised them all on my own.

Speaker 3 But the

Speaker 3 positive to all of this is that it comes with a lot of financial benefit to help out with student loan debt and such.

Speaker 3 And I'm kind of feeling guilt for wanting to do this, going so far away from family

Speaker 3 for financial. So I'm kind of like, is it loving money that I want to do this for?

Speaker 1 No, you love freedom and you're wanting to be free of the debt. Right.
That's not loving money. That's wanting to be free.
That's a valid thing. Sacrifice.
That's a valid thing. So, you know,

Speaker 1 what I always look at on something like this is

Speaker 1 what's the

Speaker 1 return on the effort and what's the time frame? Because I could do anything for a short period of time. I don't want to sign up for 10 years in Uganda or whatever it is, right? I mean, no, thank you.

Speaker 1 Two years.

Speaker 1 Two years.

Speaker 1 And how how much do you make now? How much would you make if you did this? And how fast will you get out of debt?

Speaker 3 Well, it would basically give roughly about $100,000 toward my student loan debt. So it would cut it over half.

Speaker 3 And it would give me a lot of financial freedom after that two years, like coming back and actually being able to spend time with grandkids and such.

Speaker 1 So you would be debt-free after two years?

Speaker 3 Close to debt-free, yeah. I would probably still have maybe about $30,000 in student loan debt.

Speaker 2 But yeah. And if you stay the course you're on now, how long would it take to pay off the debt?

Speaker 3 Hopefully, Social Security will pay it off.

Speaker 1 Yikes, no,

Speaker 1 it won't either. It won't.

Speaker 3 No, it won't. So, yeah.
How old are you?

Speaker 3 I'm 53.

Speaker 1 So you're saying you have no other real, I mean, it's kind of how much student loan debt did you run up?

Speaker 3 I, well, I ran up $120,000, but kicking the can down the road, as you say, it's close to about $165,000 right now.

Speaker 3 I used it to supplement my income raising my kids. When my husband died, my kids were young.
We had nothing.

Speaker 3 It was a suicide, so we literally had nothing. So it, yeah.
So I stayed at home, went to college late, and I did it so that I couldn't.

Speaker 1 How long ago was his death?

Speaker 3 25 years ago. I was 20.

Speaker 1 So this has been following you forever.

Speaker 3 For a while, yeah.

Speaker 1 And you could give up two years and be done.

Speaker 3 Yes. And my kids are supportive.
I think my

Speaker 1 emotionally the trade-off is, okay, 25 years of hell. Two years, I can be rid of it.

Speaker 1 That's a good trade.

Speaker 2 The kids will be okay.

Speaker 1 However,

Speaker 1 that is not you chasing money. It is you chasing freedom.

Speaker 3 Okay. I needed to hear that.

Speaker 1 I think from a Christian standpoint, that's

Speaker 1 what I hear. Yeah.
I agree. It's not greed that's driving this.
It's anything but. It's quite the opposite.
It's you have had the hell beat out of you financially.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And you're wanting to get this behind you.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I don't blame you.

Speaker 1 This is band-aid ripoff.

Speaker 3 Yeah, and I'm good with that. I mean, I was brought up by a Marine, so I'm okay with that hard work.
I don't have a problem with that.

Speaker 3 I just wanted to, from a Christian financial standpoint, wanted to make sure.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 I think it's quite the opposite. From a Christian financial standpoint, I think this is time for my daughter, my sister, the widow, to be free.

Speaker 1 I think she's been under the thumb of the freaking government long enough with these student loans beating her to death. I would love for you to be free, daughter.

Speaker 3 Awesome.

Speaker 1 Now,

Speaker 1 what are they going to pay at the remote location?

Speaker 1 Actual pay.

Speaker 3 Yeah, actual pay. It'll come out to be about 95,000 gross.

Speaker 1 Okay, and then they're going to pay off a bunch of your student loan debt, and they're probably providing housing because you're in the middle of nowhere or something like that.

Speaker 3 Housing is cheaper. I'm going to be renting a room for somebody.

Speaker 1 So, yeah.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 1 So, and you have $120,000 left.

Speaker 1 Roughly. And they're going to pay how much of that?

Speaker 3 Up to $100,000. So it's $50,000

Speaker 1 per year. Yeah.
Okay. Then you're you're making $95,000 and living in a no-place, nowhere, one-bedroom.
You should be able to pay off the rest of it. I don't want you to come home with any debt.

Speaker 3 Right. That would be my hope.

Speaker 1 No, it's not a hope. It's a plan.

Speaker 1 Well, true. I mean, you're making $95,000.
They're paying $100,000 of the $120,000. Find the other $20,000 in two years, kiddo.
Be done with this thing.

Speaker 3 Absolutely.

Speaker 1 Rear view mirror. Look in the past and go, that's where that needs to stay.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Do you have any other debt?

Speaker 3 I have

Speaker 3 a credit card of like 8,000 from like, I had teeth repaired this year. So

Speaker 1 you got to stop using this stuff. Okay.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. You got to be clear.
Your goal is freedom, 100% freedom. Cut the card up.
Look at your budget and go, I'm not doing anything. And these student loans are going to die.

Speaker 1 This mess that I've lived through is going to be in my rearview mirror. And I'm going to have a fresh start when I am 55 years young.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 1 The encore, the curtain goes up, you take a bow and you take one more act in the play. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And it's going to be amazing because you're going to be first time, you're going to be free because you have poured your life out for everyone else.

Speaker 1 To take care of the kids and to make sure everybody's okay and then to pay these stinking bills. And now you're going to go give up two years of your life to take care of these bills.

Speaker 1 You're a strong, cool woman. I like you a lot.

Speaker 1 You're amazing. Go get it done, sister.
Get it done, but be 100% done when you come home. Don't screw around with this.
Knock it out. Be done with it.
That's very cool.

Speaker 2 I like it. First time she's going to be debt-free in her adult life.
Man. It's going to taste different.

Speaker 1 Ouch.

Speaker 1 Asher's in Grand Rapids. Hey, Asher, what's up?

Speaker 3 Hello.

Speaker 3 So I just wanted to. yeah.
I was calling in because I have problems with like impulsive spending.

Speaker 1 Me too.

Speaker 3 I have, yeah.

Speaker 3 Like, but it's, it's bad. Like, this, I'm 20 years old.
This is the first job that I've had, and it's not making me much. It's only like 200 bucks a week.

Speaker 3 But I'm living with my parents, so it's not like I have to pay rent or anything like that. But

Speaker 1 you're in school? I, like, I've been, I've been working are you in school that's only a hundred bucks i am not no why are you only making 200

Speaker 3 i'm only making 200 bucks a week because i don't have a license because i

Speaker 3 got into it too late and i'm still trying to get get it now i'm trying to get it now got into what too late

Speaker 3 uh so

Speaker 3 there was a whole thing that happened with um

Speaker 3 my social security card getting lost and so i had to get that renewed renewed, and that took like two years.

Speaker 1 You don't have to have a social security card to get a driver's license, you have to have a birth certificate, and you're in Grand Rapids, you can get a birth certificate.

Speaker 1 Your parents have your birth certificate?

Speaker 3 We do have it, but they told me I needed a social security card, which we got it all figured out. Who told you all that? I'm getting

Speaker 3 the people at the social security, the people at the

Speaker 1 Department of Motor Vehicles?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Okay. Well, let's talk about your spending here.
You got no money to spend. So what are you spending your money on and how much?

Speaker 3 I'm getting 200 bucks a week. I've been working maybe four and a half months now and I've been spending it all on, like, I've been

Speaker 3 really spending it all on online games and food, which is obviously not good. And I know it's not good.
And I need to get out of this rut.

Speaker 3 I just haven't been able to figure out the best way to do that yet.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 Hang on. I'm going to send you a copy of my book, Breaking Free from Broke.
Read through the whole thing, especially the spending is self-control chapter.

Speaker 2 I think it's going to help you get control of this because you're too young to be making dumb decisions, which is when we all made them. But you can be set free of this.

Speaker 1 And go get your driver's license and work 40 hours a week, and it'll start to solve a lot of these problems.

Speaker 1 Now,

Speaker 2 less video games, more work.

Speaker 1 Now, no excuses. This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 7 all right dave you have some strong opinions

Speaker 1 possibly yeah i think so okay because you really prefer credit unions over big banks so why why is that well credit unions for one thing are non-profit which means that the members the customers own the credit union so any profits that the credit union makes goes back into customer pricing.

Speaker 1 So you get better interest rate on savings, cheaper checking, and so on, that kind of thing.

Speaker 1 And what's more important than that, though, is the fact that the customer is the owner changes the spirit on the credit union. So I find very few credit unions that aren't very customer-centric.

Speaker 7 Yes. Well, and I think we have found one that is incredible, and that's Fairwinds.
They are an incredible credit union that is really out with the heart to help the customer.

Speaker 1 You know, that's why we're partnering with them. because

Speaker 1 they've got a scope to be able to handle the Ramsey audience, and they're the right kind of people with the right kind of values. And they've done a really, really good job with customer service.

Speaker 1 And the deals that they're offering, the Ramsey tribe is incredible. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 7 And you're right. Their customer service is unbelievable.
Winston and I just signed up and we got an account. And I'm not kidding.

Speaker 7 It took less than five minutes. It was so user-friendly.
Like the step-by-step approach was unbelievable. And then the next day, my phone rings and it says fair wins on my phone.

Speaker 7 So I answered it and talked to someone there. And they said, yeah, they give calls to every new customer.
And so again, they just really care about your experience. And I, I so, so appreciate that.

Speaker 7 So again, you guys, I know it can be a pain to switch banks or to open up new accounts, but fairwinds, again, they make it so easy.

Speaker 7 Plus, anything that you can do at a traditional branch, you can do with them at fairwinds.org or on their app. And you'll have free access to over 33,000 ATMs.

Speaker 1 Hey, you guys know how much I hate banks in general. And so for me to do this is a big deal.

Speaker 1 Talk to our friends at Fairwinds and check out the combined checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsey tribe. You guys, it's incredible.

Speaker 7 Yeah, you guys, it's so easy to join Fairwinds no matter where you live. So go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey to learn more.
That's F-A-I-R-W-I-N-D-S dot org slash Ramsey.

Speaker 2 All right, this one's for my classroom superheroes, aka the teachers out there. You know what's better than an unexpected classroom observation? An unexpected getaway.

Speaker 2 This Financial Literacy Month, you could win a dream vacation with the Ramsey Teacher Appreciation Giveaway.

Speaker 2 Because honestly, you deserve that Colorado cabin, that Tuscan winery, or that tropical resort where everything's included except the motivation to leave your lounge chair.

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Enter before April 30th at ramseysolutions.com/slash teacher.

Speaker 2 That's ramseysolutions.com/slash teacher.

Speaker 1 George Camille Ramsey personality is my co-host in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage. Cameron and Faith are with us.
Hey guys, how are you? Very good, sir. How are you?

Speaker 1 Better than I deserve. Welcome.
Where do you live? We live in Oak Ridge, Tennessee, right outside of Knoxville. Awesomeness.
Well, welcome to Nashville.

Speaker 1 And all the way over here to do your debt-free scream. How much have you paid off? We paid off $161,400.

Speaker 1 Way to go. How long did that take? 43 months.
Good for you. And your range of income during that time? We started at $77,000 and now we're at $180,000.
Oh, I like that.

Speaker 1 Not bad in under four years, a little over three years. So what do you do for a living, and how do you triple your income? Well, I'm a mechanical engineer.
I'm also a mechanical engineer.

Speaker 1 And she...

Speaker 1 One of you wasn't working. You got it.
That's it. All right.
That's it.

Speaker 2 So she was still in school when we started. Oh, okay.

Speaker 1 And then she jumped on and helped out quite a bit, obviously. And then both of you jumped way up quick on your raises as well.
That's right. Yes, you hit the ground running hard.
Well, that's great.

Speaker 1 Yeah, engineers are the number one category of millionaires in our study of millionaires. So, and you got two of them.
Yep. So, you're in really good shape.

Speaker 2 This is boding well for you.

Speaker 1 Double your chances there. I like it a lot.
Very well done. Okay, what kind of debt was this? Student loans? No, sir.
It was our house. You paid off your house.
Yes, sir. Wow.
How old are you two?

Speaker 1 I'm 24. I'm 27.
That's illegal.

Speaker 1 You are so weird. I love you.
What's this house worth? I'd say about $2.90 now, somewhere in that range. Wow.
Wow. How long have you been out of school? I've been out just around four years.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I've been out about two. Okay.
Wow. And you have a $300,000 paid-for house.
Your family's got to be looking at you like you lot. Like, who are these people? They didn't come from us.

Speaker 1 They have some comments. Some good, some bad.
Yeah, I bet. I bet.

Speaker 1 Some jealous and some cheering you on that's right yeah i love it wow man three hundred thousand dollar paid-for house in oak ridge tennessee uh where'd you graduate from ut no sir we were actually uh i originally from memphis so we were uh a school local school there public school oh okay all right wonderful in terms of your your undergrad yes sir okay both undergrad okay so are are you working for um

Speaker 1 Who are you working for in Oak Ridge? Can you say? I can say. Yeah, it's Oak Ridge National Labs, actually.
Yeah, I was thinking. Okay, yeah, that's perfect.
Wow. Very cool.
Very cool.

Speaker 1 Good for you guys. That's fun.
So how did you get connected to all this Ramsey stuff? So I can attest to my mom.

Speaker 1 We were homeschooled, and we started in the foundations and finance course for that. I love mom.
She's awesome. She is awesome.
She has been our biggest cheerleader through the years. I bet.

Speaker 1 But I can thank her a lot for that. And then we just kind of did the Dave Ramsey method.
We actually bought the house. I bought the house prior to marriage.

Speaker 1 No-score loan with Churchill mortgage, mortgage, actually. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So it worked out perfectly to a T. Those guys were super helpful to the whole process.
And we just ate away at it.

Speaker 1 We actually were here two years ago, almost the day, for the first event up the hill. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 And that's where we decided, you know what,

Speaker 1 we could knock this out whenever she graduates. So that's what we did.
We planned it out.

Speaker 2 So you pre-decided that you were going to be done with debt completely before you were 30? Did you have a set goal to pay it off in a certain amount of time?

Speaker 1 We did. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I bet a couple of engineers had a plan.

Speaker 1 Oh, of course.

Speaker 1 That's the only way we can live.

Speaker 2 So, what was the original game plan?

Speaker 1 So, the game plan was we were going to pay it off by January 1 of this year, 2025. Her birthday is on the 30th prior to that.

Speaker 1 So, we were trying to knock it out then. We missed that date by eight days.
Wow. So, a little bit more.
I'm going to call that a bullseye.

Speaker 1 I think you're a failure.

Speaker 1 I don't think you made it. I think you should be real disappointed.
Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 You guys are awesome, heroes. Well done.
Well done.

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 1 Faith,

Speaker 1 did either, well, I mean, you grew up in a family, Cameron, with homeschooling on foundations. Okay.
So, but Faith, did your family look at y'all like,

Speaker 1 who have you married? A little bit. I actually had a similar story to Cameron where I took your class in high school.

Speaker 1 Actually, Coach Bunch, he was my teacher there, there, and he still teaches personal finance, your

Speaker 1 fundamentals foundations class. Where is this? At Trinity Christian Academy.
It's in Jackson, Tennessee. Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 Wonderful. Thanks, Coach.
Yeah, for real.

Speaker 1 He taught me then, and we just kind of followed the principles and found him.

Speaker 2 And you just stuck when you went through the curriculum. Okay, one day

Speaker 2 we're going to do this stuff. We're going to live debt-free and see what happens.
And, I mean, you guys are living proof of what it means to get started on the plan early.

Speaker 2 You know, we talk about financial peace babies, and here you are, 24 and 27, no payments in the world. Yep.
That's really weird.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's a homeschool curriculum and a high school curriculum.

Speaker 2 Right there. It works.
Way to go.

Speaker 1 Ramsey Education Team.

Speaker 1 Normalized it to where you went, and then you went and got

Speaker 1 something that no one knows how to do, got a no score like you got for you and Whitney, and then you paid off your home too from Churchill Mortgage, no credit score.

Speaker 1 mortgage, and that's up at the same interest rate as everybody else, and then turn around and pays it off in 43 tiny tiny little months. And

Speaker 1 man, that's amazing, y'all. I'm so proud of you.
You guys are like proof that we're going to be okay in America. Your generation, you're bringing it, man.
I love it. Way to go.
That's very cool.

Speaker 1 What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? Got to have a plan. Absolutely.
You're not going to get anywhere if you don't plan it out. Actually, you will.
You'll get nowhere.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And yeah, your plan is so detailed, you know within eight days of what it's supposed to land.

Speaker 1 This was not a

Speaker 1 plan lacking in detail. These are a couple of engineers.
It's one of the reasons the engineers do so well is they plan and they like numbers and they're thinking about what it takes to win.

Speaker 2 Process-driven.

Speaker 1 So process-driven, process-orientation. Yeah, that's exactly right.
Way to go, you two. Very, very cool.
I'm proud of you. How's it feel? Do you have any idea how rich you're going to be?

Speaker 1 I mean, this is unbelievable. It really hasn't hit yet.

Speaker 1 We've had a couple months now of no mortgage payment, so it feels odd. The money just kind of sits there now.

Speaker 1 I guess it's going to we're going to have a fine find a plan for that, too. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 You better be careful that you enjoy some of it, that you invest some of it, and that you're overly generous with some of it, because that's where you are early.

Speaker 1 And I mean, you have a $300,000 paid-for house. You're making $200,000 a year.
You don't have payment in the world. And you have the ability to work together, which most couples don't.

Speaker 1 And you have the ability to set a goal and hit it, which most people don't know how to do. I'm predicting, you know, probably a $30 million net worth at least minimum.

Speaker 1 So I think that's where you'll land. So good job, man.
Y'all are incredible. It's absolutely.
And all from a homeschool curriculum and a high school curriculum with a coach.

Speaker 2 That's incredible. So parents out there are going, I hope this sticks with the kids.
Hey, they're taking it all in.

Speaker 2 Even if they have their arms crossed the whole time, they can't not remember the time when Dave said debt is dumb. Cash is kings.
You know, ignorance was bliss. And you go through that curriculum.

Speaker 2 And now you know too much about car loans and budgeting and saving.

Speaker 1 and you guys are living proof this stuff still works yeah it's amazing it's very very cool and we got two uh every dollar subscriptions for you you can use those or pay it uh pay it forward to someone else and get them started when they go wait what do you mean a no score what are you smoking man you could just check this out yeah i got you i got you covered on that well way to go you two cameron and faith knoxville oak ridge tennessee 161 000 paid off that's house and everything

Speaker 1 at 24 and 27 years old the house is worth 300 grand. They're making 188 these days.
You guys are awesome. You're heroes.
Man, I'm impressed. Count it down.
Let's hear a debt-free scream.

Speaker 1 Three, two, one.

Speaker 1 Debt-free!

Speaker 1 Yay!

Speaker 1 Amazing.

Speaker 2 Now, if we could just clone them and put them all over America, this country would be in a different place, Dave.

Speaker 1 Well, it's up to the parents and the teachers because we've got the curriculum, obviously. From the time I wrote the very first book, people said this ought to be taught in high schools.

Speaker 1 You're right. And finally, we developed a high school curriculum.
Now 48% of the high schools have taught it. Over 6 million students have gone through this in high school, not counting homeschool.

Speaker 1 Wow. And

Speaker 1 it's pretty crazy how many. And you teachers and you principals out there, you can do this.
You educators, you can do this for these kids. You set them up.

Speaker 1 You moms and dads that are homeschooling, you can set them up. And these young people right here, man, they're going to be so generous, so wealthy.
They're a a wonderful couple.

Speaker 1 I mean, wow, talk about winning. That's very cool.
This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Hey, guys, good news. Pre-sale is on now for my new book, Build a Business You Love.
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Speaker 1 on sale now at a deal. Ashley's in Atlanta, Georgia.
Hi, Ashley. How are you?

Speaker 3 I'm good. How are you?

Speaker 1 Better than I deserve. What's up in your world?

Speaker 3 Oh, my question for you is: should I sell my rental property to pay off my student loan debt?

Speaker 1 Wow. How much student loan debt you got?

Speaker 3 A lot, $338,000.

Speaker 1 That is a lot. Are you a doctor or a lawyer?

Speaker 3 Lawyer.

Speaker 1 Okay. And what's your income?

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 excluding like the rental property, it's

Speaker 3 around $95,000 to $100,000.

Speaker 1 How long have you been on a lawyer? I've been in my bonus

Speaker 3 since 2019.

Speaker 1 Okay. When are you going to start making some more money with your law degree?

Speaker 3 I know.

Speaker 3 Yeah, that's a, I guess that's a problem.

Speaker 1 You spent a lot of money on a law degree because you could make a lot of money, and now you're not making a lot of money.

Speaker 3 Right.

Speaker 1 Diesel mechanics make more than you.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So what are you going to do to get your career going, kiddo?

Speaker 3 Change jobs. Let's start there, I guess.

Speaker 1 Okay. All right.
And what's the rental property worth?

Speaker 3 The rental property is is funny. It's worth the same amount as my debt, $338,000.
That's the current

Speaker 3 value. No, I wish.

Speaker 1 Okay. So it won't pay off the student loan debt.
How much do you owe on it?

Speaker 3 $176,000.

Speaker 1 Okay. So you get $100,000, $150,000 out of it, right?

Speaker 1 Correct. Yeah.

Speaker 2 That'll definitely help. Instead of you being in debt for 10 years, we can speed this process up by selling this rental property.
You got any savings? Anything else you could sell?

Speaker 3 So I currently have a storage unit with some stuff in it that I've been trying to like sell all of that stuff out.

Speaker 1 And you're paying for the storage unit.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So let's free up money every nook and cranny in your budget. And we're going to get you on a budget because that's going to be the real path out of here, regardless of what happens.

Speaker 2 Getting your income up, getting your expenses down. But I'd love to see you debt-free in under two years.
You think you could do that if you got intense?

Speaker 3 Oh, for sure. Especially if I sold the property.
I've been torn between selling it and moving into it. And so

Speaker 3 I just.

Speaker 1 Where do you live in?

Speaker 3 Currently, I live with my parents, but

Speaker 3 I was about to start renting.

Speaker 1 Good. That's fine.
I was about to start renting. That's fine.
Yeah. I believe I would.

Speaker 1 Now,

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 1 I was

Speaker 1 one of the first in my family to get a formal education.

Speaker 1 Are you?

Speaker 3 I am. Well, yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay. I am.

Speaker 1 Let me ask you if this is true, and it's okay if it's not. You please tell me the truth, okay?

Speaker 1 I'm not forcing this on you

Speaker 1 because there's a lot of symptoms in this conversation that make me think this, and I'm not sure if I'm right, okay? So you can correct me.

Speaker 1 But did you kind of have the idea, like I did, that we were sold, if you go get a law degree,

Speaker 1 they're just going to start sending you big checks. It's going to be like easy.

Speaker 3 Yep.

Speaker 3 So I probably said I wanted to be a lawyer as a kid.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you worked your tail off and were really, really focused till you passed the bar. And you thought at that point this was going to get easy.

Speaker 3 Yes. And it definitely did not.
And it did.

Speaker 1 It was the opposite. And you fell backward into a half-butt lawyer job.

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 1 Instead of a really, really good one making making $200.

Speaker 3 Correct.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Correct.
What kind of law are you doing?

Speaker 2 Is it the specific niche that you're in?

Speaker 3 I would say it's the specific niche. It's real estate law.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So here's what I'm pointing to, and I lived through this, and I know a whole bunch of other people that have lived through the same thing.

Speaker 1 Now that you have discovered that the education is not the cause of your success,

Speaker 1 instead, you are going to be the cause of your success.

Speaker 1 That should give you some new energy to go kill some things and drag them home. So go get an apartment, sell this condo, clean out this storage shed, get your butt in gear, and go make you some money.

Speaker 1 Because the Calvary's not coming. It's not going to get easy.
You're the secret sauce to the success, not the degree.

Speaker 1 The degree, as you have discovered and I have discovered, is not magical.

Speaker 3 Right.

Speaker 1 You see what I'm following? You see what I'm doing? Yes. So

Speaker 1 the same incredible determination and sacrifice emotionally and psychologically that you used to go get this degree because it was supposed to be Willy Wonka's golden ticket.

Speaker 1 I want you to use that same determination that's inside of you. to go now be somebody.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 You follow me? Because

Speaker 1 this all looks like you peaked out at graduation and have been sliding ever since. You're living at home.
You got a storage unit. You got this rental unit.

Speaker 1 You're in a substandard. You're not making the money you ought to be making as smart as you are.
And I want you to go get rid of every bit of that. I want you to go get some money.

Speaker 1 You have earned the right to go get it. You are a star.
Go act like it. Go get some.
Get this stuff knocked out. Clean this stinking mess up.
Get you a grown-up life. Like I have my own apartment.

Speaker 1 I live in my mom's living room. I'm a freaking lawyer for God's sakes.
You know, go stand up, girl, and get this storage unit cleaned out. Get this thing sold.

Speaker 1 And then start looking for a better opportunity and walk in with a little bit of, like a lot of superstar confidence when you walk into the interview for the next place because you are that person.

Speaker 1 Okay?

Speaker 1 That's what's going on. So you get our income to 200K.
We get this mess cleaned up.

Speaker 1 This stuff's gone in a heartbeat.

Speaker 1 But we tell everybody this. And then

Speaker 1 if you come from

Speaker 1 a demographic, we'll just call it, if you come from a background where

Speaker 1 the people around you were not people of four-year degrees, they tend to think sometimes in that culture,

Speaker 1 in the culture that she and i are talking about uh that if you get the degree it's willy wonka's golden ticket and people that have that are like third generation have had college degree college degree college degree they know it's not they know it's not the cause of success that it's just some tools in your belt that you still got to get up leave the cave kill something and drag it home you still got to go be somebody you still got to double up your fist and bust some noses you still got to push out there and make it happen your degree is not a guarantee of success.

Speaker 1 It's quite the opposite. It'll actually hold you back if you stop.
And but if you come out of that and the people around you didn't know that, then you believe that and it shut it messes with you.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So

Speaker 1 it's part of where the student loan crisis has come from.

Speaker 2 Everyone should go watch Borrowed Future on our YouTube channel. It's our documentary on the student loan crisis, and it explains all of this beautifully.

Speaker 1 It falls right in line with every bit of that. Wow, you're cool.
I like you a lot. You're going to do good.
This is the Ramsey Show.