Don't Chase Money, Chase Freedom

live from the headquarters of Ramsey solutions. It's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships.
I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, George Camel, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today. You jump in, we'll talk about your life and your money.
The call is free, and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. Yeah, jump in, 888-825-5225.
We'd love to talk to you. Tonight, for those of you listening live through one methodology or another, we're on about 83 different platforms of different kinds with this show.
But if you're able to listen on Tuesday for whatever, Tuesday evening we will be doing the Investing Essentials Workshop tonight. George and I just came out of a rehearsal.
This is about a two-hour event this evening and tomorrow evening, Tuesday and Wednesday night. If you buy a VIP ticket, you have 30 days worth of replay.
You can watch it over and over and over for 30 days. So no rush, no problem no problem whatever but you do need to get your ticket if you want to watch uh this evening live he and i will be doing investing tonight tomorrow night we'll be doing investing in real estate and uh george is loving this bringing out your um i know you look very gq on the surface but underneath we, we know you're a true nerd.
I love it.

Just watching Dave unpack a formula, I don't know.

That's my new hobby, I guess.

But it really is.

It's stuff we've never talked about on the show, mostly because you thought it was too

dry and boring.

It's too nerdy.

But then people went, no, no, no, Dave, we actually want to know.

How do you select a mutual fund out of all the investment options?

We're going to cover that.

It's too nerdy.

How do you calculate the cash-on-cash return to know if the investment property is worth it? How do you do an internal rate of return on a piece of real estate? It's too nerdy. But I do it all because I also am a super nerd.
So a couple of super nerds tagging up tonight, Investing Essentials virtual event. My pastor used to say a man with an experience is not at the mercy of a man with an opinion.
I own about $600 million worth of real estate. I'm 64 years old.
I've got a lot of money in other investments as well. This is not something I wish I knew something about.
I can't fix your car, but I can tell you how to do this, because I have done this a lot. No theories here.
Not theory. This is not a think tank.
This is not your broke financial professor with an opinion. So tonight, March 4th and 5th, we're going to be doing this.
It's a two-hour each night. It's standalone so it's a four four four and a half

hours worth of virtual event go to ramsey solutions.com get your tickets uh we'll come into the top of the hour here bragging about that because it is tonight angela is with us in rochester new york hi angela what's up well hi i recently won a nice chunk of money in the lottery Wow, how much did you win?

I won $3 million.

Whoa!

Yeah. I recently won a nice chunk of money in the lottery.
Wow. How much did you win?

I won $3 million.

Whoa!

Yeah.

Unfortunately, I, of course, didn't get anywhere near that.

I got $997,000 after taxes.

After taxes and lump sum, the $3 million is the total payout if you take it over 83 bazillion years

and not count the taxes.

Yeah.

So you took it all lump sum.

So you got a million bucks.

Way to go.

Yeah.

That's fun.

I'm happy for you.

Thank you.

I was too.

I just don't know what to do now.

I've been meeting with a lot of different advisors,

but then I'm also reading about a possible market crash,

and I don't know what to do.

Okay.

I hope there's a market crash right before you put this money in. Yeah, because it's going to go straight up after that.
So I don't think there's going to be a market crash. In other words, let me tell you how much of my money I pulled out of the market in fear of a market crash.
Precisely zero. Okay.
Matter of fact, I'm steadily investing real estate and and stock market, both. Okay.
There's a boom a-coming, baby. Ride the wave.
All right, now here's the thing. When you're meeting with those investors, how intimidated are you? I'm not intimidated.
Well, I can't say that. I don't really understand it all.
There you go. That's where I'm very lost at what to do.
So I've got bunch of i've got a bunch of gen z's in their 20s that work here we've got a whole bunch of digital products at ramsey i know nothing about it they work for me but they're smarter than me and i have no idea what they're talking about you know i'm talking about so i go into a room full of them the other day and i'm like hey they're talking and they're using letters and all this stuff like they're in the military i have no idea what they're talking about i'm like hey guys um just humor the old guy who writes your check tell me what the flip is going on in this room explain like i'm five explain it till i understand it because you work here and work for me my name's on the building i'm not being mean about this i'm just really really curious what it is we do in this room. So they spent about 30 minutes teaching me with a good spirit, and I had a good spirit of receptively listening and learning because I really did want to know what they were doing.
I'm always perpetually curious around here, and that's what you're going to do. These people work for you, these investing advisors, meaning you can fire them at a drop of a hat if they're not good at explaining.
Or if they make you feel insecure with their snotty approach. So you're looking for the heart of a teacher with anyone giving you advice.
Because your job is not to hire someone else to do this for you. Your job is to hire someone to teach you to do it for yourself okay that way you won't lose the money that's my fear you're not going to lose it you're going to go slow and you're not going to put it in anything you don't understand okay and you remember everything that's written on the internet is true abraham lincoln said that yeah that's what my friends say say.
If it's not on Facebook, it's not true. Yeah.
It doesn't happen, right? So stay off the Internet for financial advice. All right.
Sit down and talk to old-seasoned people who will teach you, and when you come away from the meeting, you feel two things, smarter and peaceful. If you don't have that sense in your spirit, if you don't feel more confident, smarter, and peaceful if you don't have that sense in your spirit if you don't feel more confident smarter and peaceful you got the wrong people in your corner that's what you're looking for if you do that you won't lose the money right george yeah you think it's better to invest it or just keep like divide 250 000 of pound banks until i feel better so i just put i put three million dollars into the stock market last week okay 25 is what stock market went up last year what's 25 of three million right yeah what do you make angela what do you make from your job 10 10% is $300,000, by the way.
I'm actually retired.

I bring $62,000 in.

I have a couple of defined benefit pension plans.

Good.

Yeah, and my husband makes about $110,000 a year.

Okay.

So if you put $1 million in and it makes 20%, that's $200,000.

If instead you put it into a savings account because you're scared and you don't learn and you make one percent you lost two hundred thousand dollars that's a much better way of looking at it that's opportunity cost it's called opportunity cost you missed an opportunity uh by not learning so learn learn learn learn learn get comfortable and don't invest in the stock market or in real estate if you're wanting wanting to do a short-term play, you want to think, I'm not going to touch this for five years once I put it in there. Okay.
If you do that and then you just turn off the news, you'll be okay. But learn, learn, learn, learn, learn.
You and your husband sit down with these advisors, and if you want some more to have the heart of a teacher, go to RamseySolutions.com and click on SmartVestor Pros and find the ones in your area. Interview two or three.
Talk to tax people, real estate people, insurance people until they have the heart of a teacher. If they're snotting you, they drop their glasses down on the end of their nose and they have all the answers and you're just the stupid little people who got lucky.
You have a million dollars. They don't, so tell them to shut up.
They're fired. This is The Ramsey Show.
Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance, or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John.
Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're not going to die or something? Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it.
And one of my buddies said, hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids. And I immediately went and got term life insurance.
That's a gut punch. For decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse.
They've lost somebody important to them. Me too.
They don't know what to do next. You're going to have a crisis here.
You know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow.
That's exactly right. These are the two options.
It's saying I love you to your family. Term life insurance.
Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years.
They're the only people I trust. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282.
This is the Ramsey Show. George Campbell, Ramsey, personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host.
George, when you were a wee toddler, there was a fabulous comedian out named Steve Martin. Oh, I love Steve.
And he had a whole bit that said, you need to get a million dollars and not pay taxes. He said, how do you want to be a millionaire and not pay taxes? He said, the first thing you do is you get a million dollars.
Then you don't pay taxes. Now, that was a funny bit.
But when I get a call from someone like our last caller before the break, Angela, and she got a million dollars from the lottery, I always think, where does money come from? Where does wealth come from? And there's a lot of places you can get money. You can win the lottery.
You can have a rich uncle that dies and leave you a million dollars. You can be scuba diving in the Caribbean and find gold bars from a Spanish galleon that wrecked.
It sounds personal. Yeah, I mean, that could happen.
I mean, people, you know, there's a lot. You could treasure hunt.
You could do all kinds of things. Get a settlement check, sell a business.
Yeah, you could be in a car wreck. I mean, you could get a million dollars from a lot of places and become wealthy.
What we are in the business of, however, here is giving you a path that has a super high probability of working, not a super low probability of working. Now, if you get a million dollars from

a low probability, like not a chance it's happening again, like winning the lottery,

we're going to celebrate with you because we were nice to Angela and we want to celebrate with her.

But I don't want you folk out there to misunderstand that the lottery is a high

probability of building wealth. As a matter of fact, statistically, it is a tax on poor people.
Most people that play the lottery live in lower-income zip codes. In the state of Tennessee, we have this wonderful program where the lottery money is used to send people to college.
The people that go to college in Tennessee using the lottery money are typically middle class and upper class kids going to money, going to college on lottery money that was paid by poor people playing the lottery in lower income zip codes who never use those scholarships. So it's a completely bogus, horrible system.
Now, Angela benefited from it. I'm not mad at at her we'll help her and celebrate with her that

she became a millionaire with this but i want you folks to know here's the actual this is hilarious to me but it's mathematically factual okay if you walk one mile to the market to buy the lottery ticket, you are 12 times more likely to be struck by lightning twice during the one mile walk that's statistically wow than you are to buy the winning lottery ticket that's how bad this program sucks and people go i'll take my chances dave yeah i'll get i'll get struck by lightning twice i mean a number a number of people that, I mean, really, I mean, it's like something off of Instagram. But no.
Okay, I want a high probability. I want something that works most of the time for average intelligence people because that's what I am.
I don't want to have to be a genius. I don't want to have to be lucky beyond statistical probability.
I want something that works, and that's what we teach here teach here so but if you were to come into wealth by one of these other weird means george and all the personalities we will celebrate with you we love you if you have a rich uncle you're the one that did i always wonder who it was it was you because it wasn't me and it wasn't george no if i had one he didn't leave me any money i don't know where he is i might be the rich uncle but i'm not leaving the nephews anything they're going to talk one to my kids no one's ever left you in their will No. No.
If I had one, he didn't leave me any money. I don't know where he is.
I might be the rich uncle, but I'm not leaving the nephews

anything. It's all going to my kids.
No one's ever

left you in their will? No.

Yeah, my grandmother did. I got $5,000 from my grandmother.

Hey! That's a tiny lottery.

Yeah, we were just married, and I have no idea where that

money went. It's gone.
Just poof.

It just disappeared. I blame Sharon.

Like mist in the wind. But that's the

deal, folks. So anyway, I just want you to

know, just because we celebrate with someone who had

a good event does not mean that's an endorsement

of that methodology.

Okay? Twelve times

more likely to be struck by lightning twice

in a one-mile walk

than you are statistically

to buy a winning

lottery ticket. That's pretty low

odds. Just saying.
All right.

Samuel's with us in Los Angeles, California. Hi, Samuel.
How are you? Good. Good morning, guys.
Thank you for having me on the show. Our pleasure.
How can we help you? Yeah, so my name is Samuel Barron. I'm 26 years old.
I've been following your principles since I was a teenager, about 18, 19. Your advice on living debt-free and investing has helped me build a $5 million net worth at 26.
Way to go. Wow.
Thank you. I have a big question and I'm really confused on, uh, what's next.
Um, so I made my first million at 22, I invested all my profits I made. I still live in my mom's living room, and I eat McDonald's and Chipotle every single day, which isn't the best.
But my question is, what's the meaning of life when the money game feels solved? Is it about starting a family or buying the dream home that I've been looking at for the past eight years, or is it something deeper? Good for you. How old did you say you are, 25? 26.
26. Cool.
I appreciate you calling, dude. Thank you.
I'll take a stab at it. Number one, $5 million, the money game's not solved.
Okay? You can screw this up in about 20 minutes, have nothing. I had $4 million worth of real estate when I was 26, and I went completely bankrupt by the time I was 30.
So you can screw this up. It's not over.
But you have done a wonderful job. Congratulations.
So, I mean, if you got $500 million, we'll talk about slowing down. But $5 million, no, you're not there yet.
But what you're figuring out is that just stacking cash doesn't have meaning, and I'll go along with that for sure. Well done.
And you've done a wonderful job of stacking cash. You're amazing.
Congratulations, sir. But what we figured out a long time ago, I met God on the way up.
I got to know him on the way down when i lost everything samuel and what i've learned as a person of faith is is that true joy comes through serving not through getting giving not getting adding value not taking value and so um i think you'll have a level of happiness when you just go get you an apartment and a better diet. Yeah, I'm working on it.
Yeah, no, I mean, really. I mean, like, by the end of the week, I want you in an apartment.
You need to get out of your mother's living room. You're 26 years old.
You got $5 million. What the flip are you doing at home? Go be a man.
Here's the thing is that I bought a quadruplex in L.A. last year, but it's fully owner-occupied, so I couldn't.
That's fine. Go get an apartment.
I didn't say you had to move into that. Well, yeah, I mean, you're right.
Yeah, I am right. The whole reason why I've been working is I just want this house that I've been looking at for years, and that's what I'm truly going for.
Yeah, but when you get that, it's going to have the same exact feeling. It's just a stupid house.
Every time you get a nice thing, there's a better one, and some goober on the Internet will show it to you. The algorithm in your social media feed will go, man, you should own 20 properties by the the time you're 26 and so the goal post is always going to keep moving until you decide i want you to save up for that house too i don't mind that but dude i don't know what the flip you're doing to make money but you're doing a great job of handling the money but you're but you're what you're telling me is is that all of your effort and energy and psychology and spirituality has been aimed at one target and that's's money.
And that's a pretty stupid target. It's a good target, but it's not the all-encompassing target.
So go have a life, too. I mean, I want you to go enjoy some meals with a beautiful woman called a date and go get you an apartment and, like, a life.
Have you got a car? Yeah, a car yeah i have what is it different yeah so me and my girlfriend have been together since middle school and we've done all the uh why is she hanging out with you when you still live in your mother's living room i don't know i mean she told me. Actually, I hear it all the time.
I love you, man. You're awesome.
You are a great guy. You're amazing.
Thank you so much for calling. Hey, man, really, go invest some of this in having a quality life, not just in investments.
You got a flat tire right now. You got the money part down.
Let's

focus on spiritual growth, physical health, social relationships, family. That's what's going to give

you a lot more purpose on top of doing what Dave said and giving and serving. I was just a little

bit younger than you when I landed in a good church. Changed my life.
It taught me how to

serve and there's more joy in serving and giving than there is in taking and adding and stacking

cash. Go stack you some cash, but go have a life too, my man.
It's time. Today's the day.
Move out

not in serving and giving than there is in taking and adding and stacking cash. Go stack you some cash, but go have a life too, my man.
It's time. Today's the day.
Move out now. Like this week, Friday.
Friday. That's your deadline.
This is the Ramsey Show. Hey, what's up, guys? It's Jade Warshaw.
And look, if there's anybody who knows student loan debt is a problem, it's me. My husband and I had $280,000 of it, but we were able to dig ourselves out and you can too.
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So if you're looking for a low rate or a shorter term so that you can pay off these student loans fast, talk to my friends at Laurel Road about their competitive interest rates and how you could actually get a lower rate by signing up for auto pay. Listen, nobody's coming to save you from student loan debt.
If you want them gone, you can't mess around. Go to laurelroad.com slash Ramsey to find out more about student loan refinancing.
Again, that's laurelroad.com slash Ramsey. Laurel Road is a brand of key bank national association.
All credit products are subject to credit approval. George Campbell Ramsey personality is my co-host today.
Thank you for joining us, America, in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage. David is with us.
Hi, David. How are you? I'm doing real well.
Good, man. Where do you live? I live in Wildemars, south of Los Angeles.
Cool. Welcome to Nashville.
Thank you. And all the way on the other side of the United States to do a debt-free scream, baby.
Of course. I love it.
How much did you pay off? $230,000. Wow.
How long did this take you? Six years and four months. Wow.
Good for you. Good for you.
And what was your range of income during that time? Well, my income was about $200,000 a year. Cool.
And what do you do for living uh i i'm a salesman for a packaging company very good excellent man what kind of debt was this 230 000 well it was my mortgage and so um i used my side job which is real estate to pay that off you paid off your house yes in california yes no less well done sir thank you boom boom boom i'm looking at weird people a paid for house just south of los angeles what's this house worth uh about 600 000 way to go man how much have you got in your retirement nest egg uh a little over a million all right so i'm worth almost two million dollars how old are you uh 64 i love it man. Congratulations.
Thank you. Whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop.
How's that feel? It feels great. It feels great.
It's actually, since I paid it off in December, not to have a mortgage since January is just, it's awesome. It's just like, you feel like no weight on your shoulder.
That's right. Nothing's being taken out.
Yeah, I love it. Very good.
So what inspired you to try to do this six years ago at, what, 58 years old? You said, I'm going to pay off my house fast. Well, what I did was I had like a PMI on my original mortgage, and so they wouldn't take it off.
So I had to find another mortgage company to take the PMI off. And it was actually 0-270 so what I did was uh I had some money saved up from real estate and when I refinanced I actually wired the money to the the new lender so that that dropped it from 270 to 230 and they were going well why don't you just take money out so that was my situation okay how'd you run into all this Ramsey stuff years ago in church okay a program okay and so the snowball has always been in my mind okay and just decided I'm gonna knock this house out absolutely and that's so cool now you mentioned the side hustle of doing real estate yes helped to pay it off yes what were you doing? Well, I do a couple deals a year, specializing in probate, and I just really liked it.
It was like a hobby, and that's really what helped me with the big chunks of change to pay it off. So you were finding deals out of estates that were good bargains and flipping them? No, not flipping, just being the listing agent.
Oh, okay. You're selling them, helping the people solve the problem.
Yeah, calling the family and sharing what I can do for them, and that's how I did it. Good for you.
Wow, that's neat. So good commissions then.
Yeah, good commissions to be able to do that, and so that helped me a lot. Plus a great income.
Absolutely. Very, very cool.
So who was your biggest cheerleader while you're doing all this? Pretty much just it was me. I'm my own.
Well, one of the reasons I'm here is I'm doing this for my kids so I can be an example. Oh, okay.
Very cool. How old are your kiddos? Let's see.
35, 33. I got one in the Navy.
He's 26. And then my youngest is uh 21 all right very good very good cool good for you well well it is a good example they can look over there and go look he saved money he paid off his house he's got a couple million dollars he's 64 years old he's not going to be calling us for food sigh of relief from the kids we don't take care of dad in his old age he's going to be just fine with his big old nest egg and paid for house that's great yeah well done sir i'm very

proud of you thank you dave very good very well done i appreciate you making the trip over here

of course so what what made you decide i'm going all the way to nashville to do this why did that

mean something well you know the last uh six years i i knew that this is what i can do i wanted to

come here i do it for my kids but also um you know know, the goal of being debt-free, and there's no other place to come except here. Yeah, we're the place that lets you celebrate it.
That's right. That's for sure.
Yeah. Well, good, man.
Very cool. We're honored that we would be what you'd look to.
This stage is what you'd look forward to. That's pretty neat.
Very neat. What's next for you? are you dealing with the figured-up mortgage payment? You know what? I'm going to actually fix my house.
I didn't do anything to it. It needs flooring.
It needs a bunch of stuff. So I sacrificed that for getting this thing paid off.
You put off the remodel. That's right.
Yeah. Okay.
Well, cash flow pretty easily now. Yes, absolutely.
It's awesome. So when someone's listening and they're in their 50s and they say, I've still

got a quarter million dollars owed on a house, what do you tell them the secret to getting out of debt is? Well, I really think that if you can get a job, a side job that can really help you out and help you make those snowball payments, slowly but surely it works. The whole thing reminds me of that book, Where the Red Fern Grows.

And that young man, it took him two years to save 40 and he bought two uh hounds and that's how you know it goes quick but it's just little steps and i would say the side job is what really saved me yeah yeah well you weren't scared of work. It propelled you.
That's for sure. Yes.
Excellent job, David. Good stuff.
All right. And what was the town called again? Wildemar.
Wildemar. Wildemar, California.
Yes. South of Los Angeles.
I'm learning my geography right now. $230,000 paid off in six years and four months that's house and everything house is worth

about 600 got about a million in the old retirement so getting bumping up towards two million dollar net worth at 64 years old congratulations david you did it we're proud of you hero count it down let's hear a debt-free scream debt free Got right to the chase.

That's six years worth of waiting. Yeah.
I love it. Get to use your outdoor voice indoors.
That's the joy of the debt-free scream. It is.
It is. But you know what? So few people do it.
I mean, he's one of the rare people out there called millionaires. Baby steps millionaires.
They follow the baby steps. They got out of debt, paid off their house, built their retirement, built their kid's college in some cases, not his, but, um, you know, you do all those things and then you look over there and there's a stinking pile of money and you're okay.
Everything's going to be okay. And mainly because of the habits you built during that time, the character you built during that time, you get transformed in the process.
Yeah, that patience and delayed gratification. I mean, you heard him saying, I've lived on less than I made.
I put off things and it's worth it. I mean, six years feels like a long time.
It's going to happen. It's going to fly by.
You're going to be 64 at one point or another. So do you want to have a paid for house or do you want to have lifestyle creep take over and you got a pile of debt going, I hope I can retire one day.
That's normal in America. Yeah.
I mean, last week we took calls from 71 year old who had no money and didn't know how she was going to eat. A guy who was in his mid seventies had no money, didn't know how he's going to eat counting on social insecurity.
You work your whole life and I'm going to count on the government, which is well known for its ability to handle money to take care of me. That's a dumb plan, but not David.
David doesn't have a house payment. He's sitting on a lot.
Million bucks in retirement. Sitting on plenty of income and still enjoying his work and even enjoying the side hustle, which is pretty lucrative, obviously.
So very cool done that's how you do it folks i mean it doesn't happen accidentally this winning thing no in our millionaire study we found what average millionaire happens at 49 years old and they pay off their house in 10.2 years that's the average and so he probably fell right right in there he's a little faster on the mortgage payoff but it's it's not rocket science, and it's really not that impressive when you look at what was going on there. They just consistently put money away, consistently made extra mortgage payments.
There was no rocket science. It is impressive because no one else does it, but it's not superhuman.
Yeah. It's not out of reach.
You can just decide, I'm going to do that. And that's all he did.
He was just a very decisive person. He said, I'm very low i'm just gonna do it yeah unassuming i'm just gonna i'm just gonna go win i'm gonna win the super bowl and then i can scream i'm debt free on the ramsey solutions debt free stage worth it i love it and we got a gift for him two every dollar subscriptions that he can use or give to someone else to kickstart their journey got those kids kids in their 30s.
Hand that stuff off right there.

Keep it going.

Keep it going.

He said he wanted to be an example for them.

That's how this works.

This is The Ramsey Show.

Hey, you guys.

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Today's question comes from Shelby in Idaho. My husband and I have been married for 15 years and have two children.
We're on baby steps four, five, and six. Last year, he was diagnosed with leukemia and underwent chemo and a bone marrow transplant.
My husband's estranged sister was a perfect match, which probably saved his life. Now

she has gotten herself deep in debt trying to flip

houses and rent out Airbnbs

and has started asking us for money.

We already gave her several thousand dollars last

month. We have heard from other relatives

that she has started asking them for large

amounts as well. My husband feels

obligated to give her money because she saved

his life, and we know she'll be asking

us again soon.

How should we respond?

There was no, if I give you bone marrow,

you give me money contract here,

nor was there any implied thing like that.

What you do want to do is help someone you love uh anytime you can help someone you love but not but no he's not he's not obligated to give her money to rearrange the deck chairs on the titanic because she's going down and if you give her ten thousand dollars you're never it doesn't help she has bigger problems than ten thousand dollars if you give her a thousand dollars it doesn't help you're rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic so what you've got to do is say okay she helped me now i'm going to help her now let's define define what help is. What does sister really need? Well, she needs to stop doing this stupid butt stuff she's doing that's killing her.
Not you throw money into her LSD financial trip here. This is nuts.
And so real help, real love is to sit down and say, Sister, you gave me the gift of life, and I'm going to give you a gift in return. The financial plan that you are on is going to bankrupt you, and I don't want to see you hurt.
You need to stop this. You need to confront her stupidity.
is an act of courage that is an act of love that is helping giving money giving a drunk a drink giving a money to a cocaine addict so they can buy their cocaine is not love and this is financial cocaine this woman's on i'm deeply leveraged i'm losing money on airbnb oh shoot me you bought all you got all your dadgum real estate advice off a tiktok oh my god of course it's failing yeah you can't compare the health crisis that he went through and go hey the quid pro quo is i support financial misbehavior for the rest of my life that's not going to work so it's going to be a tough conversation. And you can't save her.
Yeah, and it might hurt the relationship. Unless you've got a million dollars, you want to bail her out completely of all these mortgages.
You can't save her because the track she's on is a bankruptcy track. This vending machine is going to keep eating your money.
The only thing you can do is step in front of the train and say, I love you the train because i love you i'm going to tell you the truth no one's telling you the truth the emperor has no clothes what you are doing is straight up stupid you're going to bankrupt and that most people won't tell somebody that they supposedly love the truth. They just, they'll do anything to keep from telling, because it sounds like conflict, but that's real love.
That's real help. Real love is when my children were little, I made them brush their teeth so they have some later, even if they don't want to.
Real love is you did some uncomfortable things if you were a Ramsey child growing up, because we were not trying to raise great kids. We were trying to raise kids who became great adults.
And so real love involved some things that were uncomfortable for their short term and comfortable for their long term, like get your freaking homework done. in today's world it means when you're at papa dave's we're not big on screens so grandpa and grandma we want to like talk to you and look at your freaking little eyes put that crap down you know oh my god and so i mean yeah that that's real love does a four-year-old love that? No, they hate it.
And I want to go to Papa Dave's. He won't let me play games for 73 hours on my iPad.
Well, then keep your little butt home because when you come to my house, we're going to – Papa Dave's rules at Papa Dave's house. Sorry, that's the way that works.
You've now entered my domain, little person. That's how it works.
So we love you so much. We're going to do all kinds of wonderful things for your good including hurt your little feelings and that's what you need to do for your sister buddy not give her money and support her stupidity in the name of you help me with my bone marrow i'm it's wonderful that you all have this kind of relationship that she was willing to do that because that's a painful operation and it's a hard process but it doesn't mean you support her destroying herself you do quite the opposite if you really love her that's tough love no darling it's real love it's not tough love tough love i mean that what's what's the opposite of tough love enabling entitlement no no you've got a choice you got to choose healthy no more money for the failed program we're not putting fuel in the titanic we need to we need to pull up alongside the dock and get some fuel because we're gonna go sink this thing let's get the dinghies out.
Not with Papa Dave's money.

Not doing it.

Nope, nope, nope.

And not with your money.

Stop it.

It's not real love, guys.

You just love somebody.

You have to be kind and courageous and very clear that they have to stop doing the thing

that is hurting them, and you will support them in that process.

But you will not support them in the process of self-destruction because I love you, because you did something sacrificial for me. That's the very reason I will not participate in this delusional bullcrap.
I mean, people don't talk like that anymore, but we need them to. That's real freaking love.
Dave is in Grand Rapids, Michigan. dave welcome to the ramsey show hey thanks for taking the call sure what's up so so my wife and i are living in a house we're from her parents and we're thinking of buying the place from them um but my wife is very nervous about the idea of getting into any sort of debt, and I'm not sure that we've actually saved up enough to do it.
Are you debt-free? We are. We have always been.
Good. How much money do you have saved? Well, we have our six-month emergency fund, and then on top of that, we about 12 grand okay and how expensive is this property we're actually in the process of trying to determine that oh come on give me a range honestly it could be anything from 90 to 145 okay we don't know it's not super expensive and 12 grand will get you into it no it's a what's your what's your household income uh i have been bringing home consistently about 64 a year and i'm hoping to have that up above 80 this year and she does not work outside the home no we have two kids under three cool okay she works but just not outside the Okay.
She does a lot of work. I can imagine.
Oh, my gosh. The numbers all work.
You could buy the house with $12,000 down on a 15-year fix, no problemo. Okay? No reason not to do it.
The only question I've got for you is, if you were living in a one-bedroom apartment and this house came on the market would you be interested in it or are you just ending up here because it happens to be all in the family um no i would be i would be interested in it the only thing about it is that we're outgrowing the house and so well if you're in a one-bedroom apartment or two-bedroom apartment you got got two little kids or three-bedroom, whatever, if you're renting somewhere you weren't emotionally attached to and had no relatives tied to it, would you come buy this house? If the answer is yes, then buy it. You're financially ready.
What do you think, George? Yeah, and if you want to save up a little more and do this in six months, that's fine too. You just got to weigh it out and go, we got to get a little less house.
But mortgage payment is probably going to be about $1,000.

So it's reasonable for your income.

Yeah, the numbers work on this.

You can do this.

On a 15-year fixed, and you're fine.

But just don't buy something because it's handy and the in-laws said do it.

That's never a good reason.

Buy it because it's something you would have bought anyway.

And if that's the case, then game on, baby.

You're ready.

You've done a good job. Man, that's cool.
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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey

Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love,

and create actual amazing relationships. George Camel, Ramsey personality,

number one best-selling author, is my co-host today. Open phones here at 888-825-5225.
He's also the co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruz, one of our top shows here on the Ramsey Network. If you've not checked that out on YouTube or podcast, you should.
They are way more fun than they should be allowed, and we even pay them for having that much fun. I can't believe I get paid to do this.
You two goof-offs. Get on there and make yourselves really popular and I pay you for the opportunity.
You greenlit the show. I'm telling you.
I actually did attend it finally. Yeah, it was great and had a lot of fun with you all.
Yeah, you're one of our top performing episodes, so congrats. No way.
I don't think you beat Sharon Ramsey's episode. Nobody beat Sharon.
You can touch that if you do you don't tell her so i'm just saying just let her she she gets to win all the time that's the rule at our house all right uh carly is in washington dc hey carly what's up hi um so my question is my mom just paid off my brother's credit card debt, which is about $70,000. What? Yeah, I know.
I know. I know.
I need to have thoughts on that. I do, too.
I begged her not to do it, but that's what happened. She's offering to give me the same amount of money to be fair, I guess, or equal.
Like, we're just the two siblings. And I'm conflicted about whether to take the money.
Are there strings attached? Is it a loan? No. No, no, no, no.
She just feels like... Has she got a lot of money? She does.
She can afford to do it. I think she feels guilty for giving him the money because I think she knows she shouldn't have.
No, I think she just... I mean, my grandmother and my wife are the same way.
Whatever one of them gets, the other one gets. I mean, no guilt.
It's just all. I accuse her of being a socialist, but I don't think everything ought to be fair.

I think fair is where the cotton candy and the tilt-a-whirl is.

But my grandmother and my wife are exactly the same way.

They would definitely have done this.

And no guilt at all.

It's just like, well, that's what you're supposed to do.

You do it for one, you do it for the other.

It's real simple in their minds.

Yeah.

And it was her idea? She came to you and said, hey, listen, you know what happened. I'd love to give you this money too? Yes, she came to me.
Yeah. Okay.
I think you need to drop the guilt for taking it. Could you use 70 grand right now? Everybody could.
Send it to me. I mean, right.
I mean, we we have three kids like obviously it would be helpful um but we you know we're not like you weren't asking for it you're not needy you're not begging she has a million dollars or whatever and if she gives away 140 of it at this age of life it doesn't affect her right right correct here's my take we Baptists over here. We call that blocking a blessing.
You don't want to block a blessing. That's what you're doing right now by not allowing your mom to give you this money.
Don't do that. I didn't say no.
I just felt, like, conflicted about it because, also, my brother does not have a lot of – doesn't have a high earning potential. Like he just doesn't have.
That's not your fault. The situation that I'm in with my husband and my kids.
It's not your fault. That.
Okay. You didn't cause any of this.
You just showed up to the party in the DNA pool. Right.
You're the prodigal son's brother, right? Prodigal son misbehaved. Dad comes home and says, hey, party hey party at my house prodigal son's back and now you get to come to the party too and enjoy the feast i see no problem with this okay regardless of my opinion of going 70 grand to debt and then having a get out of jail free card the fact that she wants to give you this money has no bearing on what happened any of that yeah as long as there's no as long as she's not going to come over and start managing your business after this okay no strings attached she's good at she's good at boundaries and you are too right yes okay do you harbor resentment for your sibling you know um a little bit a little bit there's like a lot of little bit.
I mean, I love him, and I want to help him, and I feel like we've done everything we can, and he's just not taking the help, so it's hard. Yeah.
You're a good person. You are.
You are. Good.
I agree. I agree.
Now, the last thing is there's a little technical issue here. That's more than you can give an individual from an individual without getting into gift tax.
So she needs to investigate with her tax preparer or her estate planning attorney. Write this down, the Unified Estate Tax Credit.
She needs to use up some of her federal exemption on these two gifts to keep from getting gift taxed at 55 percent it is right now so you got to file all the right forms with the irs mom's got a little paperwork to do her mom's going to get spanked by the irs and you don't want that there's no need one simple piece of paper will keep that from happening all right you you can uh uh i, an individual cannot give an individual $70,000 without gift tax and without utilizing something like the Unified Estate Tax Credit, using some of your federal estate tax exemption towards the gift. That's what it amounts to.
So please make sure because mom may never file it, but someday they might audit her, and then, oh, my goodness, we're going to have a $40,000 or a $50,000 tax bill on these things, and you just don't want that. It's not a good idea.
Open phones here at 888-825-5225. You jump in.
We'll talk about your life and your money. You know, that's last hour we had the question about the bone marrow and do I have to take care of my sisters? Do I have to give her money for misbehaving with money? Now, brother's misbehaving with money.
Mom bails him out. And so I think a lot of the questions that people have and a lot of questions we get around here are around this idea of how do I be kind to ridiculous extended family behaviors regarding money, asking money expecting money being entitled to money uh mom you know taking care of basically enabling a brother probably is what she's saying she's a little bit bitter about that i don't blame her um and then how do i how do i respond to her wanting to give me money so she feels better

about herself which is kind of what she's doing probably yeah but the man there's a lot of stuff going on there so um money does not make the world go round try it again money does not make the world It does not fix broken hearts.

It does not make the world. It does not fix broken hearts.
It does not make bad behavior become good behavior. It does not make lack of discipline look like discipline.
Money doesn't fix those things. When you pour money on messes, it makes the messes bigger.
Magnifies. It doesn't make them smaller.
It actually peels back any illusion that this was okay and makes it just really look stupid. Money does that.
It magnifies good character and bad character, good behavior and bad behavior. But money in and of itself is not a salve.
It doesn't fix everything for you. I'll be okay.
No, you won't. You'll still be mad.
You'll still have a broken heart. That's not what it's for.
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Michelle is in Cincinnati. Hi, Michelle.
Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave.
Thanks so much for taking my call. I am on Baby Step 2.
I have been on Baby Step 2 for about a year. My conundrum is I have an opportunity to take a job in a really remote location, really far away from family.
my kids are grown but I was widowed about 25 years ago and raised them all on my own.

But the positive to all of this is that it comes with a lot of financial benefit to help out with student loan debt and such. And I'm kind of feeling guilt for wanting to do this, going so far away from family for financial.

So I'm kind of like is it loving money that i want to do this for or does it you love freedom and you're wanting to be free of the debt right that's not loving money that's wanting to be free that's a valid sacrifice it's a valid thing so the you know it's what I always look at on something like this is, um, what's the, uh, the, the return on the effort and what's the timeframe? Cause I could do anything for a short period of time. I don't want to sign up for 10 years in Uganda or whatever it is.
Right. I mean, no, thank you.
Two years, two years. And how much, how much now? How much would you make if you did this? And how fast will you get out of debt? Well, it would basically give roughly about $100,000 toward my student loan debt.
So it would cut it over half. And it would give me a lot of financial freedom after that two years, like coming back and actually being able to spend time with grandkids and such.

So you would be debt free after two years?

Close to debt free, yeah. I would probably still have maybe about $30,000 in student loan debt.

But yeah.

And if you stay the course you're on now, how long would it take to pay off the debt?

Hopefully Social Security will pay it off. Yikes.
No, it won't either. It won't.
No, it won't. So, yeah.
How old are you? I'm 53. So, you're saying you have no other real, I mean, how much student loan debt did you run up? Well, I ran up $120,000, but kicking the can down the road, as you say, it's close to about $165,000 right now.
I used it to supplement my income, raising my kids. When my husband died, my kids were young.
We had nothing. It was a suicide, so we literally had nothing.
So, yeah, so I stayed at home, went to college late, and I did it so that I could be with them. How long ago was his death? 25 years ago.
I was 26. So this has been following you forever? For a while, yeah.
And you could give up two years and be done? Yes, and my kids are supportive. I mean, emotionally, the tradeoff is, okay, 25 years of hell, two years I can done yes and my kids are supportive i think my i mean emotionally the trade-off is okay 25 years of hell two years i can be rid of it that's a good trade the kids will be okay that is not you chasing money it is you chasing freedom okay i needed to hear that i think from a christian standpoint that's where they hear yeah i agree it's not It's not greed that's driving this.
It's anything but. It's quite the opposite.
You have had the hell beat out of you financially. Yeah.
And you're wanting to get this behind you. Yeah.
I don't blame you. This is Band-Aid ripoff.
Yeah, and I'm good with that. I mean, I was brought up by a Marine, marine so i'm okay with that hard work i don't have a problem with that i just wanted to from a christian financial so i wanted to make sure yeah i don't i think it's quite the opposite from a christian financial standpoint i think this is time for my daughter my sister the widow to be free i think she's been under the thumb of the freaking government long enough with these student loans beating her to death.
I would love for you to be free, daughter. Awesome.
Now, what are they going to pay at the remote location? Actual pay. Yeah, actual pay.
It'll come out to be about $95,000 gross. Okay, and then they're going to pay off a bunch of your student loan debt, and they're probably providing housing because you're in the middle of nowhere or something like that? Housing is cheaper.
I'm going to be renting a room from somebody, so yeah. Okay, all right.
And you have $120,000 left? Roughly, yes. And they're going to pay how much of that? Up to $100,000, so it's $50,000 per year.
Okay, then you're making $95,000 and living in a no-place, nowhere, one-bedroom. You should be able to pay off the rest of it.
I don't want you to come home with any debt. Right.
That would be my hope. No, it's not a hope.
It's a plan. Well, true.
I mean, you're making $95,000. They're paying $100,000 of the $120,000.
Find the other $20,000 in two years, kiddo. Be done with this thing.
Absolutely. Rearview mirror.
Look in the past and go, that's where that needs to stay. Yeah.
Do you have any other debt? I have a credit card of like $8,000 from like I had teeth repaired this year or so. Okay, you got to stop using this stuff, okay? Yeah, yeah.
You got to be clear. Your goal is freedom, 100% freedom.
Cut the card up, look at your budget, and go and go i'm not doing anything and these student loans are going to die this this mess that that i've lived through is going to be in my rearview mirror and i'm going to have a fresh start when i am 55 years young yeah the encore the curtain goes up you take a bow and you take one more act in the play yeah and it's going to be amazing because you're going to be first time you're going to be free because you have poured your life out for everyone else to take care of the kids and to make sure everybody's okay and then to pay these stinking bills and now you're going to go give up two years of your life to take care of these bills.

You're a strong, cool woman.

I like you a lot.

You're amazing.

Go get it done, sister.

Get it done. But be 100% done when you come home.

Don't screw around with this.

Knock it out.

Be done with it.

That's very cool.

I like it.

First time she's going to be debt-free in her adult life.

It's going to taste different. Ouch.
Asher's in Grand Rapids. Hey, Asher, what's up? Hello.
So I just want to, yeah, I was calling in because I have problems with, like, impulsive spending. Me too.
Yeah. But it's bad.
I'm 20 years old. This is the first job that I've had, and it's not making me much.
It's only like $200 a week. But I'm living with my parents, so it's not like I have to pay rent or anything like that.
You in school? I've been working. Are you in school? It's've been i've been working are you in school it's only 100 bucks i am not no why are you only making 200 i'm only making 200 bucks a week because i don't have a license because i got into it too late and i'm still trying to get get it now I'm trying to get it now.
Got into what too late?

So there was a whole thing that happened with my Social Security card getting lost,

and so I had to get that renewed, and that took like two years.

You don't have to have a Social Security card to get a driver's license.

You have to have a birth certificate, and you're in Grand Rapids.

You can get a birth certificate.

Do your parents have a birth certificate, and you're in Grand Rapids. You can get a birth certificate.
Your parents have your birth certificate?

We do have it, but they told me I needed a Social Security card,

which we got it all figured out.

Who told you that?

I'm getting the people at the Department of Motor Vehicles?

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, let's talk about your spending here.

You've got no money to spend.

So what are you spending your money on and how much?

I'm getting $200 a week.

I've been working maybe four and a half months now,

and I've been spending it all on...

I've been really spending it all on online games and food, which is obviously not good, and I know it's not good, and I need to get out of this rut. I just haven't been able to figure out the best way to do that.
Okay. Hang on a line.
I'm going to send you a copy of my book, Breaking Free from Broke. Read through the whole thing, especially the spending is self-controlled chapter.
I think it's going to help you get control of this because you're too young to be making dumb decisions, which is when we all made them. But you can be set free of this.
And go get your driver's licensing work 40 hours a week and it'll start to solve a lot of these problems. Now.
Less video games, more work. Now.
No excuses. This is the Ramsey Show.
All right, Dave, you have some strong opinions. Possibly, yeah.
Yeah, I think so. Okay, because you really prefer credit unions over big banks.
So why is that? Well, credit unions, for one thing, are non-profit, which means that the members, the customers, own the credit union. So any profits that the credit union makes goes back into customer pricing.
So you get better interest rate on savings, cheaper checking, and so on, that kind of thing. But what's more important than that, though, is the fact that the customer is the owner changes the spirit on the credit union.
So I find very few credit unions that aren't very customer centric. Yes.
Well, and I think we have found one that is incredible and that's Fairwinds. They are an incredible credit union that is really out with the heart to help the customer.
You know, that's why we're partnering with them because they've got a scope to be able to handle the Ramsey audience and they're the right kind of people with the right kind of values. And they've done a really, really good job with customer service, and the deals that they're offering, the Ramsey tribe is incredible.
Yeah, absolutely. And you're right, their customer service is unbelievable.
Winston and I just signed up, and we got an account. And I'm not kidding.
It took less than five minutes. It was so user friendly.
The step-by-step approach was unbelievable. And then the next day, my phone rings and it says Fairwinds on my phone.
So I answered it and talked to someone there. And they said, yeah, they give calls to every new customer.
And so again, they just really care about your experience. And I so, so appreciate that.
So again, you guys, I know it can be a pain to switch banks or to open up new accounts, but Fairwinds, again, they make it so easy. Plus anything that you can do at a traditional branch, you can do with them at fairwinds.org or on their app.
And you'll have free access to over 33,000 ATMs. Hey, you guys know how much I hate banks in general, and so for me to do this is a

big deal. Talk to our friends at Fairwinds and check out the combined checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsey tribe.
You guys, it's incredible. Yeah, you guys, it's so easy to join Fairwinds no matter where you live, so go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey to learn more.
That's F-A-I-R-W-I-N-D-S dot org slash Ramsey.

I talk to people every day who want to know how to do better in two areas, money and relationships. That's why I'm pumped to bring the Money and Relationships Tour to a city near you.
Join me and Dr. John Deloney for a night that will challenge the way you think about this stuff and possibly change how you live forever.
Starting April 21st, we'll be in Louisville, then on to Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth, and Kansas City. Grab your tickets at RamseySolutions.com slash tour before they're gone.
George Camel Ramsey personality is my co-host in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. On the debt-free stage.
Cameron and Faith are with us. Hey guys, how are you? Very good, sir.
How are you? Better than I deserve. Welcome.
Where do you live? We live in Oak Ridge, Tennessee, right outside of Knoxville. Awesomeness.
Well, welcome to Nashville. And all the way over here to do your debt-free scream, how much have you paid off? We paid off $161,400.
Way to go. How long did that take? 43 months.
Good for you. And your range of income during that time? We started at $77,000 and now we're at $180,000.
Oh, I like that. Not bad in under four years, a little over three years.
So what do you do for a living and how do you triple your income well i'm a mechanical engineer i'm also a mechanical engineer and uh she one of you wasn't working you got it that's it all right that's it so she was still in school when we started oh okay and then she jumped on and helped out quite a bit obviously and then both of you jumped way up quick on your on your well. That's right.
You hit the ground running hard.

Well, that's great.

Yeah, engineers are the number one category of millionaires in our study of millionaires.

And you got two of them.

Yep.

So you're in really good shape.

This is boding well for you.

Double your chances there.

I like it a lot.

Very well done.

Okay, what kind of debt was this?

Student loans?

No, sir.

It was our house.

You paid off your house?

Yes, sir.

Wow.

How old are you two? I'm 24 i'm 27 that's illegal you are so weird i love you what's this house worth i'd say about 290 now somewhere in that range wow wow how long you've been out of school i've been out uh just just around four years yeah i've been out about two okay Okay, wow. And you have a $300,000 paid-for house.
Your family's got to be looking at you like, who are these people? They didn't come from us. They have some comments.
Some good, some bad. I bet.
I bet. Some jealous and some cheering you on.
That's right. Yeah, I love it.
Wow, man. $300,000 paid-for house oak ridge tennessee uh where'd you graduate from ut no sir we were actually uh i originally from memphis so we were uh a school local school there okay school okay all right wonderful in terms of your your undergrad yes sir okay both okay so are you working for um who are you working for in oak ridge can you you say? I can say.
Yeah, it's Oak Ridge National Labs, actually. Yeah, I was thinking.
Okay. Yeah, that's perfect.
Wow. Very cool.
Very cool. Good for you guys.
That's fun. So how did you get connected to all this Ramsey stuff? So I can attest to my mom.
We were homeschooled, and we started in the foundations and finance course for that. I love mom's awesome she is awesome she has been our biggest cheerleader through the years i bet um but i can thank her a lot for that and then uh we just kind of did the dave ramsey method uh we actually bought the house or i bought the house prior to marriage um no score loan with churchill mortgage actually yeah yeah so it worked out perfectly to a t those guys were super helpful through the whole process and uh we just ate away at it um we actually were here two years ago almost the day for the first event up the hill oh yeah that's right and uh that's where we decided you know what we could uh we could knock this out whenever she graduates so that's what we did we planned it out and so you pre-decided that you were going to be done with debt completely before you were 30 that's right have a set goal to pay it off in a certain amount of time we did yeah so i bet a couple of engineers had a plan oh of course that's the only way we can live so what was the original game plan so the game plan was we were going to pay it off by january 1 of this year 2025 um her birthday is on the 30th prior to that.
So we were trying to knock it out then. We missed that date by eight days.
Wow. So a little too bad.
I'm going to call that a bullseye. I think you're a failure.
I don't think you made it. I think you should be real disappointed.
Oh, my goodness. You guys are awesome heroes.
Well done. Well done.
So, Faith, that either – well, I mean, you grew up in a family, Cameron, with homeschooling and foundations, okay? But, Faith, did your family look at y'all like, who have you married? A little bit. I actually had a similar story to Cameron where I took your class in high school.
Actually, Coach Bunch, he was my teacher there, and he still teaches personal finance, your fundamentals foundations class. Where is this? At Trinity Christian Academy.
It's in Jackson, Tennessee. Yeah, okay.
Wonderful. Thanks, Coach.
Yeah, for real. He taught me then, and we just kind of followed the principles and found him at college.
And it just stuck. When you went through the curriculum, okay, one day, we're going to do this stuff.
We're going to live debt-free and see what happens. And, I mean, you guys are living proof of what it means to get started on the plan early.
You know, we talk about financial peace babies, and here you are, 24 and 27, no payments in the world. Yep.
That's really weird. Yeah, that's a homeschool curriculum and a high school curriculum right there it works way to go rams the education team normalized it and to where you went and then you went got a something that no one knows how to do got a no score like you got yeah you and whitney and then you paid off your home too from churchill mortgage no credit score mortgage and that's up at the interest rate as everybody else, and then turn around and pays it off in 43 tiny little months.
Man, that's amazing, y'all. I'm so proud of you.
You guys are like proof that we're going to be okay in America. Your generation, you're bringing it, man.
I love it. Way to go.
That's very cool. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is gotta have a plan absolutely you're not gonna get anywhere if you don't plan it out actually you will you'll get nowhere yeah so yeah and yeah your plan is so detailed you know within eight days of what it's supposed to land it's not a this was not a uh a plan lacking in detail these are a couple engineers it's one of the reasons the engineers do so well is they plan and they like numbers and they're thinking about what it takes to win.
Process driven. So process driven, process orientation.
Yeah, that's exactly right. Way to go, you two.
Very, very cool. I'm proud of you.
How's it feel? Do you have any idea how rich you're going to be? I mean, this is unbelievable. It really hasn't hit yet.
We have a, we've had a couple months now of no mortgage payment, so it feels odd. The money just

kind of sits there now. Uh, I guess it's going to have a final plan for that too.
Yeah. Yeah.

You better be careful that you enjoy some of it, that you invest some of it and that you're

overly generous with some of it because that's where you are early. And, um, I mean, you have

a $300,000 paid for house. Uh, you're making $200,000 a year.
You don't have a payment in

the that you're overly generous with some of it because that's where you are early. And, I mean, you have a $300,000 paid-for house.
You're making $200,000 a year. You don't have a payment in the world.
And you have the ability to work together, which most couples don't. And you have the ability to set a goal and hit it, which most people don't know how to do.
I'm predicting, you know, probably a $30 million net worth at least minimum. So I think that's where you'll land.

So good job, man.

Y'all are incredible.

It's absolutely.

And all from a homeschool curriculum and a high school curriculum with a coach.

That's incredible.

So parents out there are going, I hope this sticks with the kids.

Hey, they're taking it all in.

Even if they have their arms crossed the whole time,

they can't not remember the time when Dave said,

debt is dumb, cash is king.

You know, ignorance was bliss. And you go through that curriculum, and now you know too much about car loans and budgeting and saving.
And you guys are living proof this stuff still works. Man, it's amazing.
It's very, very cool. And we got two every-dollar subscriptions for you.
You can use those or pay it forward to someone else and get them started when they go, wait, what do you mean a no-score loan? What are you smoking, man? Just check this out. Yeah, I got you.
I got you i got you covered on that well way to go you two cameron and faith knoxville oak ridge tennessee 161 000 paid off that's house and everything at 24 and 27 years old the house is worth 300 grand they're making 188 these days. You guys are awesome.
You're heroes.

Man, I'm impressed. Count it down.

Let's hear a debt-free scream!

3, 2, 1 We're debt-free!

Yeah!

Yeah!

Amazing!

Now if we could just clone them

and put them all over America, this country

would be in a different place, Dave. It's up to the parents and the teachers because we've got the curriculum, obviously.
From the time I wrote the very first book, people said this ought to be taught in high schools. You're right.
And finally, we developed a high school curriculum. Now, 48% of the high schools have taught it.
Over 6 million students have gone through this in high school, not counting homeschool. Wow.
And it's pretty crazy how many, and you teachers and you principals out there, you can do this. You educators, you can do this for these kids.
You set them up. You moms and dads that are homeschooling, you can set them up.
And these young people right here, man, they're going to be so generous, so wealthy. They're a wonderful couple.
I mean, wow. Talk about winning.
That's very cool. This is the Ramsey show.
Listen, guys, I've heard just about every excuse for why folks think they can't get ahead with money. So let's go ahead and settle this right now.
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On sale now at a deal. Ashley's in Atlanta, Georgia.
Hi, Ashley. How are you? I'm good.
How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up in your world? Oh, my question for you is, should I sell my rental property to pay off my student loan debt?

Wow.

How much student loan debt you got?

A lot, $338,000. That is a lot.
Are you a doctor or a lawyer? Lawyer. Okay.
And what's your income? Um, so excluding like the rental property, it 95 around 95 to 100,000 how long you've been since 2019 okay when you're going to start making some more money with your law degree

um yeah that's a i guess that's a problem um you spend a lot of money on a law degree

I'm sorry. um yeah that's a i guess that's a problem um you spent a lot of money on a law degree because you could make a lot of money and now you're not making a lot of money right diesel mechanics make more than you yeah so what are you going to do to get your career going kiddo um change jobs jobs.
Let's start there, I guess. Okay.
All right. And what's the rental property worth? The rental property is plenty.
It's worth the same amount as my debt, $338,000. That's the current value.
And is it paid for? No, I wish. Okay.
So it won't pay off the student loan debt. How much do you owe on it? $176,000.

Okay.

So you get $100,000, $150,000 out of it, right?

Correct.

Yeah.

That'll definitely help.

Instead of you being in debt for 10 years, we can speed this process up by selling this rental property.

You got any savings?

Anything else you could sell?

So I currently have a storage unit with some stuff in it that i've been trying to like sell all of that stuff out so i can and you're paying for the storage unit yeah so let's free up money every nook and cranny in your budget and uh we're going to get you on a budget because that's going to be the real path out of here regardless of what happens getting your income up getting your expenses down but i'd love to see debt-free in under two years. You think you could do that if you got in tents? Oh, for sure.
Especially if I sold the property. I've been torn between selling it and moving into it.
And so I just... Where are you living in? Currently, I live with my parents, but I was about to start renting.
Good. That's fine.
I was about to start renting good that's fine that's

fine that's fine yeah i believe i would um now i mean i i was one of the first in my family to get formal education are you I am well yeah okay i am um i let me ask you if this is true and you it's okay if it's not you you please tell me the truth okay i'm not i'm not forcing this on you because there's a lot of symptoms in this conversation that make me think this and i'm not sure if i I'm right, okay? So you can correct me. But did you kind of have the idea, like I did, that we were sold, if you go get a law degree, they're just going to start sending you big checks.
It's going to be like easy. Yep.
So I probably said I wanted to be a lawyer as a kid. Yeah, you worked your tail off and were really, really focused until you passed the bar, and you thought at that point this was going to get easy.
Yes, and it definitely did not. And it didn't.
It was the opposite. And you fell backward into a half-butt lawyer job.
Yes. Instead of a really, really good one making $200.
Correct. Yeah.
Correct. What kind of law are you doing? Is it the specific niche that you're in that's not making it? I would say it's the specific niche.
It's real estate law. Yeah.
So here's what I'm pointing to, and I lived through this, and I know a whole bunch of other people that have lived through the same thing. Now that you have discovered that the education is not the cause of your success, instead you are going to be the cause of your success, that should give you some new energy to go kill some things and drag them home.
So go get an apartment, sell this condo, clean out this storage shed, get your butt in gear, and go make you some money. Because the Calvary's not coming.
It's not going to get easy. You're the secret sauce to the success, not the degree.
The degree, as you have discovered and I have discovered, is not magical. Right.
You see what I'm following? You see what I'm following you see what i'm doing yes so the the same incredible determination and sacrifice emotionally and psychologically that you used to get go get this degree because it was supposed to be willy wonka's golden ticket i want you to use that same determination that's inside of you to go now be somebody okay you follow me because yes this is all this all looks like you peaked out at graduation and have been sliding ever since you're living at home you got a storage unit you got this rental unit you're in a subard. You're not making the money you ought to be making as smart as you are.

And I want you to go get rid of every bit of that.

I want you to go get some money.

You have earned the right to go get it.

You are a star.

Go act like it.

Go get some.

Get this stuff knocked out.

Clean this stinking mess up.