You Have to Know Where You Are Financially to Know Where You're Going

Speaker 1 Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Me and Dr.
John Deloney are coming to a city near you on the Money and Relationships Tour. It's happening soon.
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Speaker 1 This is the Ramsey Show, where we help you win in your life, specifically with your money, in your profession, and in your relationships.

Speaker 1 Alongside the incomparable, the delightful George Camill, I'm Ken Coleman.

Speaker 2 Excited to be with you all. George, you ready to go today? I'm.

Speaker 1 It's a Friday. You're not mailing it in.
No.

Speaker 2 I don't even know how to do that.

Speaker 1 I'm a millennial. Come on.

Speaker 2 I don't mail anything.

Speaker 1 There you go. That's a very good point.
You don't even know what a stamp is. I'll explain that to him during the commercial break, but we're here for you, America.
Triple 8-825-5225.

Speaker 1 Triple 8-825-5225. Now, we're going to coach you on saving your money, investing your money, making more money.
That's what George and I do together. And I warn you ahead of time, we have fun.

Speaker 1 This is serious stuff, but we also have fun while we're doing it.

Speaker 2 Got to bring some levity to it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, or else we get bored. And we don't want that.
By the way, great-looking studio audience today here on the other side of the glass. So we'd love to see you.

Speaker 1 Sometimes if you want to come join and watch the the show live, we'd love to see you. All right, let's get started.
Triple-8-825-5225. Again, is the phone number.

Speaker 1 Rob starts us off in Hartford, Connecticut. Bob, oh, excuse me, Rob, how can we help today?

Speaker 3 Hi, George. Hi, Ken.
Thanks for taking my call.

Speaker 1 Sure. What's up?

Speaker 3 So I got married about six months ago and

Speaker 3 trying to dig us out of this ginormous hole of our prior divorces, some poor decisions, and a severe case of can't say no to wifeitis.

Speaker 1 Hold on a second. second, hold on.
What was that? A severe case of what?

Speaker 3 Can't say no to wife itis.

Speaker 1 Wow, I liked it. I thought that deserved uh, you ran through that too quick.
Can't say no to wife itis.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I've got a similar case, it's called can't say no to daughter itis. My 16-year-old's got me wrapped around her finger.
I really struggle.

Speaker 2 I don't think insurance covers those. Sorry, guys, it doesn't.

Speaker 1 Yeah, no, unfortunately, it's a pre-existing condition.

Speaker 3 So, uh, but yeah, so um,

Speaker 3 long story short, we're probably about 250K in the hole right now, not including the house.

Speaker 3 Part of that is, like I said, the divorces hit both of us pretty hard.

Speaker 3 I also got in a car accident in December and then lost my job the next day.

Speaker 1 So I had

Speaker 3 like three or four month span that was really tough on us.

Speaker 3 But I am trying to, you know, we make decent income. So we have enough, we have a little bit of margin.
So I'm starting, obviously, baby step two,

Speaker 3 trying to get going on that. But the thing that kills me is I understand the concept of the smallest to largest, but the problem is almost all of our small debts are all 0%.

Speaker 3 And we have large debts that are 28%.

Speaker 3 And it drives me nuts that I'm going to spend, you know, 12 months paying off $15,000, $20,000 worth of 0% 0%

Speaker 3 while the 30% is accruing $1,000 a month in interest.

Speaker 3 And I was thinking, you know, we can take a HELOC, cut that rate by 70%.

Speaker 3 It adds another $800 to $1,000 that we can roll into the snowball and get done, you know, eight months to a year faster.

Speaker 2 Rob, you are rearranging the chairs on the Titanic, my friend. This is not going to be the solution you're looking for.

Speaker 2 And I don't, I know you can crunch the numbers and see how much you're paying in interest, and that should make you angry.

Speaker 2 But here's the deal: the people that actually get out of debt, they don't just move around their debts and get new debts to cover the old debts and pay off the big debt before they just do the debt snowball and get so frustrated and so angry that they're willing to work as much as it takes to get rid of the next debt and get rid of the next debt, freeing up that next payment.

Speaker 2 And you're going to lose all of that momentum trying to tackle this giant mountain of the biggest debts with the biggest interest rate.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So the question is, what are you willing to do and sacrifice to use your savings and future income to get out of this? Yeah. there's stuff we can sell in this 250k? Are there cars involved?

Speaker 3 I recently sold my video game collection for like $5,000.

Speaker 1 Hey, that's a start.

Speaker 3 But that was painful.

Speaker 2 Well, you got no time to play video games. You're going to have four jobs for the next three years.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I'm looking at another job to try and bring in some more income to tackle this.

Speaker 2 Now, you kept saying, I'm going to start the debt snowball. Where is your wife in all of this?

Speaker 3 She's there.

Speaker 2 She is in the other room no i mean is she a willing participant in this process or is she like hey

Speaker 3 knock yourself out trying to get rid of this debt i'm going to go be over here buying stuff yes she's actually volunteered to get a second job as well but i

Speaker 3 i she did that before with her ex-husband who had no ambition at all so i don't really want her to have to do that again

Speaker 1 Well, why? You're projecting something. If she's willing to get a second job, the answer is thanks, babe.
That's awesome.

Speaker 1 What are you? The knight in shining armor for the last deadbeat?

Speaker 2 The second job was crushing.

Speaker 1 We just got to work together on this.

Speaker 2 Yeah, her last marriage was not crushed because of her second job. It was crushed because of a lot of other reasons and a lack of unity.

Speaker 2 And what this shows me is that you are actually creating unity because both of you have skin in the game and you're walking through this together.

Speaker 1 Can we dig in the numbers, George?

Speaker 2 Please. All right.

Speaker 1 I'm going to facilitate. I love this.
Because you're the money guru. All right, Rob, I want you to just walk George through a couple of the...

Speaker 1 Let's just do the lowest, the smallest two debts in the debt snowball, and tell us what the minimum monthly payment is on those. Walk us through those.

Speaker 3 The smallest two are, I think,

Speaker 3 my Apple card is like $500,

Speaker 3 and I think there's a Samsung card that's like $1,500. Both of those are at 0%.

Speaker 1 Right. So what's your minimum payments on those?

Speaker 3 $58 and $133.

Speaker 1 All right. So now let's go to the next level up.
What's the small, the third, let's go up this, let's go, you know what I'm trying to say. I'm struggling.
It's a Friday, folks.

Speaker 1 What are the next two, the next two debts?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean, we got like $2,200 and then

Speaker 3 it starts to jump. From the $2,200, we got, it goes up to about $6,000.

Speaker 1 Okay. So what are the minimum payments on the $2,200 and the $6,000?

Speaker 3 $2,200 is,

Speaker 3 well,

Speaker 3 that's another Apple card. So the way they do that is is installments on your phones.

Speaker 1 I don't care. I just want to know what the month is.
$400. $400 a month you're paying towards that.

Speaker 2 These are for iPhones?

Speaker 3 For that one is, yeah.

Speaker 2 I think we can sell some iPhones. We can rock some iPhone 8s.

Speaker 1 Right?

Speaker 3 Theoretically, yes. I think there's only two payments left on it.

Speaker 2 You said $2,200.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's more than two payments.

Speaker 2 That's a whole lot of money to me, but

Speaker 1 what I'm trying to do, what I'm trying to get George in here, George, I'm trying to show him

Speaker 2 on the first three debts.

Speaker 1 I knew you would pick up the ball if I passed it to you. Do you see the real momentum here, Rob? Like, we're talking about real savings quicker than trying to pay off the other cards.
I mean,

Speaker 1 the high-interest stuff. Like, you need some momentum in this deal.

Speaker 3 I understand that. I wasn't really saying I'm going to switch to paying off the highest one because I know that doesn't work.

Speaker 1 I know what you said. You said you wanted to do the HELOC for it.
We get it. But we're just trying to help you get some momentum.
I'm not the momentum is the issue.

Speaker 1 Dave has proven this for decades through people who followed it. It is about momentum.
That's what we're trying to help you understand. George?

Speaker 2 Yeah, behavior is what got us here, not interest rates, not math. And so I know the interest rate is the easiest thing to get mad at instead of looking in the mirror and being mad at Rob.

Speaker 2 And man, you are dealt some cards that nobody should be dealt with. But here we are on the other side.
And the only way out is through it. And that's the debt snowball method.
So hang on the line.

Speaker 2 I'm going to send you guys my book, Breaking Free from Broke, along with Financial Peace University.

Speaker 2 You and your wife sit down, watch all the lessons, listen to the audio book, read the book, get fired up, get five jobs.

Speaker 2 And if your marriage isn't better at the end of this thing, then we've done our jobs wrong. Because I'm telling you, that's the kind of unity that the debt snowball creates.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 All right. Quick break.
I'm going to try on George's bomber jacket, see if it fits, and we'll be back. This is the Ramsey Show.

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Speaker 1 Welcome back to the ramsey show alongside george camel i'm ken coleman thrilled to have you with us triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five

Speaker 1 five two two five let's go to salt lake city utah and sean is joining us there sean how can we help today

Speaker 3 hey guys uh I'm currently in ultrasound tech kind of functioning as a travel nurse I make pretty good money currently.

Speaker 3 I'm wondering if it's worthwhile to go back to physicians assistant school for two years and incur like $125K in debt to make a little more money long term okay let's let's break that down you you set it up wonderfully you just i want you i need to get some facts how much are you making now

Speaker 3 so i probably make like three thousand a week so probably like a hundred and forty years because i take some time off so maybe a little less but somewhere in that ballpark so i make good money now but if i was to go back and be a regular

Speaker 3 person and not do the travel thing I'd probably make 80 to 90 and I'm kind of tired of doing doing the travel thing so I'd like to sit down in a spot for a while and

Speaker 3 keep traveling forever.

Speaker 1 All right, so if you, let's just fast forward, and let's say you got the

Speaker 1 $125,000 in cash to cash flow becoming a physician's assistant, if I heard you correct.

Speaker 1 What would be your range of income as a physician's assistant?

Speaker 3 Probably starting at like $11,000 and then have to go from there. Okay.
Be my best guess. All right.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 okay, so how long,

Speaker 1 if you weren't allowed to take out a loan, how long would it take you to come up with the money off your current income? Because you're making pretty good money.

Speaker 1 I've wrote you down as between $125 and $140 based on how kind of loose you were with that.

Speaker 1 So I think that's a good range. How long would it take you to cashflow your way, to come up with the cash to do it without the loan?

Speaker 3 Maybe I have no idea. I'd have to sit down and do the current numbers, probably at least a year.
I'd imagine at least like probably two years.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I was going to say, there's there's no way.

Speaker 1 You're only making $150. I don't own.

Speaker 3 Go ahead, Sean. Yeah, I don't own a home either, so that's the other thing.
I would like to own a home.

Speaker 1 Okay, but we've got to solve the first problem.

Speaker 1 So, Sean, I want you to take a deep breath and slow down a little bit. I'm going to actually do all the heavy lifting for you and walk you through this.
All right. So, let me guide you through this.

Speaker 1 So, the first problem we've got to solve is

Speaker 1 you want to get off the road of being a travel nurse.

Speaker 1 That's just, it's just a quality of life issue. I think that makes a lot of sense.
That's the first problem to solve, not the house, correct?

Speaker 3 True. The house is part of it, but yes, for sure.

Speaker 1 I know, but I'm helping you by understanding what your priorities are. So that's your priority.
So

Speaker 1 the move for you is, as well, I'm going to take a pretty significant hit if I don't have the physician's assistant situation.

Speaker 1 If I jump back just to traditional nursing, I'm going to take a pretty big hit, correct?

Speaker 1 Correct. Okay.
So we start looking at, okay, when we coach people, we want to help you come up with the decision, us, not tell you what to do. And so we look at, okay,

Speaker 1 I'm single, I want to save for a house,

Speaker 1 and I want to get off the road, but I'm making really good money now. I do take a little bit of downtime.
So which is the most important goal?

Speaker 1 Is it to be a physician's assistant and also make around 110? Is that a huge priority for you career-wise?

Speaker 3 not the biggest I mean I really like my job currently it's just more of I guess long-term like what I can do when I'm 60 65 yeah how old are you now a job that I'm I just turned 40 all right you're a young guy okay

Speaker 1 so going through these priorities Sean

Speaker 1 I'm gonna take the greatest opportunity that I have to stack cash that would then allow me to set myself up when I am 60.

Speaker 1 So you don't want to be traveling nurse when you're 60, but you got 20 years to get that physician's assistant degree.

Speaker 1 So putting yourself in the debt, in debt right now to me seems completely nonsensical. You know, we're not for debt.
You knew that when you called us.

Speaker 1 But forget our philosophical policy, I mean, our philosophical beliefs about this.

Speaker 1 I don't care who you are. In your position, I just think you got to be a little bit patient.
And just why put yourself in $125,000 worth of debt when in your case, you don't actually have to?

Speaker 1 You like your job. You're making really good money.

Speaker 1 George, I want to bring you in here because even if you had a, even if you weren't anti-debt like we are, it still doesn't make any sense given where he is in his life.

Speaker 2 And I've been crunching the numbers, Sean, and based on just some quick research, entry-level PA in your area, probably making 90 grand, which is what you said you'd make just getting off the road.

Speaker 2 Now, long-term, you could make closer to 110, 130, but this is not a significant jump to go 125 grand into debt or to even cash.

Speaker 1 Well, he's actually going to go backwards from where he is now.

Speaker 2 Exactly.

Speaker 2 So I would, to ken's point be very patient about this and just stack up cash and live like you're a broke college student right now because if you can put away you know 40 grand a year in two years this thing's cash flowed and then two years from that you're a pa and let's get time let's that's right sean let's play this out you do what george just said you're only two years of patience there and then now you're stacking cash for the house

Speaker 2 That's true. And I also saw in-state cost for like example, University of Utah, in-state cost should be closer to like 82 grand for this program.
So where was the 125?

Speaker 2 Was that a specific university you were wanting to go to?

Speaker 3 That's a specific university just because my degrees are old and there's not very many places I will accept my credits since they're so old.

Speaker 2 Have you checked all around? Like have you went to the most affordable options and went, will you take my credits? Can I get into this program?

Speaker 1 I feel like there's some more options. I'm not sure if

Speaker 1 you can see it.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I've quite checked quite extensively. And I have two bachelor degrees previously.
They're just my credits are so old.

Speaker 3 So if I if I applied to like say Salt Lake, I'd have to take numerous classes over again like chemistry, OChem.

Speaker 1 And you couldn't clap out of etc.

Speaker 2 I just want to say if we can save 40 grand just by doing some homework and research, I'd rather do that than just say yes to the first one that takes me and use student loan debt to do it.

Speaker 3 Correct. No, I totally with you.
I just,

Speaker 3 my options are limited to go back to school based upon my educational past and how business it is as far as like the medical field goes.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Well, I mean, we've told you what we would do.
We just want to save you that burden of debt. You just don't need it.
Nobody needs debt. You really don't need it in this situation.

Speaker 1 Let's go to Scott in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Scott, how can we help?

Speaker 1 Hello, Scott. Hi, how's it going? Good.
How can we help?

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 I'm 23. I have been dating my significant other for about six years now, and marriage is definitely on the near horizon.

Speaker 1 Gee whiz, I would hope so. I'm six years.
Kind of struggling. I'm exhausted already.
I'm exhausted.

Speaker 1 Well, everybody tells us we're young. How old are you?

Speaker 1 You're 23.

Speaker 2 So the high school sweetheart situation, and you're like, all right, we kind of have our bearings.

Speaker 1 We're out of school at this point, working full-time?

Speaker 3 Yes, we're both working full-time.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 And you want to propose in the next six to 12 months?

Speaker 3 Yes. I was thinking within the next year.

Speaker 1 Okay. What's your question, Scott?

Speaker 3 So I'm just wondering, so we've also been thinking of a house as well. And I just feel like it makes me nervous, you know, all these expenses coming up so soon.

Speaker 3 You know, you have the engagement ring, the wedding, the honeymoon, and then obviously a house. And, you know, everybody seems to be putting 15 to 20% down.

Speaker 1 Who is everybody? Everybody's broke.

Speaker 3 You know, that would be.

Speaker 1 I don't know who everybody. I mean, it's rare.
People I work with.

Speaker 2 I've never met a 23-year-old who's about to get married who's like, yeah, we're ready to buy a house, buy a ring, get the wedding, and do it all in cash. Here's what most people do.

Speaker 2 They go, we'll finance it and we'll start our marriage off in crippling debt and hope for the best.

Speaker 2 That's normal. And so I want you to be weird, Scott.

Speaker 2 And that means, hey, maybe a newlywed couple can just rent for a year or two or three, get their bearings underneath them, and get a good down payment under their feet before going, well, we're married, got to have a nice house, got to have a nice car.

Speaker 2 So I would focus on one thing at a time. Next up is the ring.
We're going to do a reasonable ring, one month salary max. I don't care how wonderful she is.
It's not about the ring she deserves.

Speaker 2 It's about the one you can afford. Next, let's make sure we can cash flow this wedding between family and ourselves.
Next, let's talk about the honeymoon.

Speaker 2 All right, I'm going to pay for a reasonable honeymoon. Next, we can talk about emergency funds and down payments and all that good stuff.
So, hang on the line.

Speaker 2 I'm going to send you Financial Peace University. This is the roadmap for any newlywed couple.
If you guys get aligned on this, it will bode very well for the success of your future marriage.

Speaker 1 Hmm, that's good, George. One thing at a time.

Speaker 2 That's it. Very simple.
So, we're such in a rush at 23. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Wow. Got a lot of life ahead of me.

Speaker 2 That's Ken. Scott.
It's much older. So much older.

Speaker 1 And by the way, the young thing, I got married at 23.

Speaker 1 This is not too young. All right.
We got to take a break. During the break, I'm going to share with George what I've learned about

Speaker 1 bread. This is the Ramsey Show.

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Speaker 1 Welcome back to the Ramsey Show alongside George Camille. I'm Ken Coleman.
So glad that you are with us. Triple 8 825 5225 is the phone number.

Speaker 1 Many of you listen to us, watch us, because you want to invest and invest wisely. And the reality is that investing can be very intimidating, certainly confusing.

Speaker 1 And you never want to take investing advice on a TikTok. You need to dive deep.
And so to that end,

Speaker 1 our Investing Essentials virtual event is going to teach you everything you need to know. It's coming up March 4 and 5.
Tickets start at $199. This is a two-night event, as you can tell by the dates.

Speaker 1 Dave Ramsey and George Campbell are collaborating on this event. You're going to get Dave's personal playbook on real estate investing.
And George is going to do a deep dive as well.

Speaker 1 George, you want to give a little bit of a break? Oh, I just did a rehearsal this morning.

Speaker 2 And man, the stuff we have planned for how to choose exact mutual funds in your plan so that you can invest with confidence. That's great.

Speaker 2 We're getting a lot of questions about this, and we're going to just lay it all out in a way where you leave so much more confident about your whole investing plan.

Speaker 2 We're going to take it all and just make it simple. There's so much noise out there, and we're just going to go, here's the 17 things you need to know and nothing else.

Speaker 2 And so it's going to be a really good time. Looking forward to it.
Tickets $199. That's a good deal for five hours worth of coaching from Dave Ramsey himself.
And we're taking your questions as well.

Speaker 2 So you can email those in if you get your tickets, ramseysolutions.com slash events or click the link in the show notes if you're on podcast or YouTube. Don't miss it.

Speaker 2 We're not doing this again this year.

Speaker 1 That's right. You were talking about all the complexity out there around investing.

Speaker 2 That's why I was telling you during the break about what I've learned about sourdough bread. I saw you took a sourdough class.

Speaker 1 I feel like I thought you're an expert. Well, there's just a lot out there.
What do you do with the starter? How much do you feed it? There's a lot of things out there. Well, it's much like investing.

Speaker 1 That's why I signed up for the sourdough class.

Speaker 2 But you've got to do it the right way, and you got to have patience. That's right.
You can't rush the process.

Speaker 1 So there you go. I just want to tie all that in together there, George.
See, I signed up. Beautifully done.

Speaker 1 You all need to sign up for this investing class if you don't understand it because it's a class. Let's just be honest.
Two-night event, going to be great.

Speaker 1 And maybe George will tell you a a little bit about what I've told him about standing on telephone.

Speaker 2 That's too risky.

Speaker 1 We'll see. Let's go to Minneapolis now where Jacob is waiting for us.
Jacob, how can we help today?

Speaker 3 Hi,

Speaker 3 thank you for taking my call, first of all. Yeah.

Speaker 3 I was... curious as to where I should start with my money.
I recently had a change in careers or chose to change careers, and I feel a little bit lost on where to go from here.

Speaker 1 Okay, so you changed from what making what to what making what?

Speaker 3 So I used to be a CNC machinist making about $25 an hour.

Speaker 3 I have changed careers to I'm going to school to become a nurse. Currently, I am a CNA making about $18.50 an hour.

Speaker 1 Okay. How soon will you be out of the schooling and then making nurse money, and what will that be?

Speaker 3 It should be December of 2026.

Speaker 1 Okay. And what will you be making?

Speaker 3 I believe starting in my area is anywhere from 38 to 40 an hour.

Speaker 1 Okay. So a temporary step back in order to step forward.

Speaker 1 Correct. Okay, great.
I got no problem with that. It's very strategic.
Okay, so be more specific. When you said to George and I, I don't know where to start, what specifically, how can we help?

Speaker 1 Where's the area that you're not sure what to do next?

Speaker 3 So when I decided to change jobs, I also decided to change cities, change where I live. I live in a little bit more of an expensive area.

Speaker 3 And I am completely out of debt.

Speaker 3 I have about

Speaker 3 $5,000 in my savings for an emergency fund.

Speaker 3 And I'm trying to decide, you know, at the moment, I have a couple hundred dollars after the paycheck hits of room to work with.

Speaker 3 And I'm not sure if I should be investing, you know, at least a little bit. I am 25 years old,

Speaker 3 and I'm not sure if I should be investing that money or if I should just kind of keep stashing that away, especially since I'm in such a volatile area

Speaker 3 in my life being in school.

Speaker 1 Yeah, great question. Are you familiar with our baby steps?

Speaker 3 I am, yes.

Speaker 2 Okay, okay. So you're in baby step three.
5,000 feels too tight for me for a fully funded emergency fund.

Speaker 2 So I would take those few extra hundred hundred bucks and start stashing it on top of your 5,000 until you have closer to 10 or 15, depending on what your monthly expenses are.

Speaker 2 But the bigger question is,

Speaker 2 sorry if I missed this, is your entire schooling cash flowed from here on out?

Speaker 3 Yes, I actually qualify for

Speaker 3 it to be paid for completely.

Speaker 1 Amazing. So

Speaker 1 I don't have to pay anything.

Speaker 2 So there's no fear we're going to have to come out of pocket for school.

Speaker 3 Yeah, except for like books and stuff. But I've got all the books for the rest rest of my time in school.
I've bought all those books that I cash flow that's over with.

Speaker 1 Then you're in a really good spot.

Speaker 2 You're cash flowing school. You're going to be going from making, you're going to double your income by December of 2026, which gives me, you know, great joy.

Speaker 2 And then you'll be moving on to investing once you have that fully funded emergency fund, which will likely happen before you finish school.

Speaker 2 And so I think we want to get you investing, but you got to get that fully funded emergency fund because right now it could take one or two emergencies to wipe out that entire savings account.

Speaker 2 Sure.

Speaker 2 Do you know your monthly expenses off the top of your head?

Speaker 3 It kind of depends. It kind of seems like things have been popping up just about every single month lately, but anywhere from on a normal month, I'd say anywhere from $1,000 to $1,200 a month.

Speaker 1 Oh. I'm very

Speaker 3 happy with my

Speaker 3 my rent is actually the majority of it. Rent is about $900 a month,

Speaker 3 but I don't pay for electricity water uh internet none of that stuff that stuff is paid for for me so by who

Speaker 3 uh my parents

Speaker 1 okay how old are you

Speaker 3 25

Speaker 1 and you're married

Speaker 1 no no i am in a relationship but i'm not married okay you said the girlfriend okay i wasn't sure i'm sorry okay wow 25 years old and mom and dad are paying all your utilities that's a sweet deal that's a good deal if you can get it i don't think I like it very much, but I think it's time to cut the umbilical cord.

Speaker 1 Is the agreement that this is until you get through school or longer than that?

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 Once I graduate and I'm making the money, I plan on moving out and kind of doing my own thing.

Speaker 1 Okay. Oh, you're living with them.
I missed that too. Okay.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 2 That makes a lot more sense.

Speaker 1 All right. There you go.
Well, thanks for the call. I mean, you're on the way, and I love that you're thinking about the margin.
And, George, give you great idea.

Speaker 2 Keep it simple. Just stack it up because as soon as you graduate, there's probably going to be more expenses coming your way as you start out on your own, your own adult life.

Speaker 1 Yeah. All right, let's go to John in Pittsburgh.
John, how can we help?

Speaker 3 Hey.

Speaker 1 Hi, John. We got about two and a half minutes.
Hit me with your question.

Speaker 3 My question is, I'm in baby step two, and I just got an opportunity to move to another city.

Speaker 3 I was wondering if you guys think that's a horrible idea or tell me about the opportunity.

Speaker 1 Is it for work?

Speaker 3 It is for work. I'm currently located in Pennsylvania and the opportunity would be moving me to Dallas-Fort Worth area.

Speaker 1 Is it more money?

Speaker 3 It would be more money.

Speaker 1 How much?

Speaker 3 Almost another 30K on top of what I'm making now.

Speaker 1 Okay, I like that. Is it in the same industry?

Speaker 1 Same industry.

Speaker 3 It would be a higher position, too. So would it be doing what I'm doing now, but sort of managing managing people and overseeing an operation for a client.

Speaker 1 Great. Do you think that sets you up to continue to climb a ladder that you've sort of envisioned? You can see continued growth as a result of this move?

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 1 It's a no-brainer. What would be the reason for not saying yes and calling us to get our take?

Speaker 3 So I'm married. We have a son.

Speaker 3 The son is seven. Okay.
My wife is

Speaker 3 the the school attachment. My wife just started a new job that she loves.

Speaker 3 We also have three horses here on our property that no one wants to get rid of from.

Speaker 2 Of course. Who could get rid of a horse? I can't imagine.

Speaker 1 If the horses weren't the issue or your wife getting a brand new job, would you be doing this

Speaker 1 and automatically? Quick answer.

Speaker 3 Without a doubt.

Speaker 2 Can you negotiate a relocation bonus to cover those expenses?

Speaker 1 I don't think that's the issue, George. I think it's got bigger problems with his wife.
I think the biggest issue is this. Can his wife find a job doing something similar that she enjoys?

Speaker 1 I think that's the issue. The horses, boy, oh boy.

Speaker 2 I'm not touching that one with a 10 foot ball.

Speaker 1 I will. Sell the horses.
Sell the horses.

Speaker 2 Is that like a, oh, I forgot you've got a lot of controversy around that. It's called PTSD, Ken.

Speaker 1 I got it. Well,

Speaker 1 we'll talk about the equine population during the break. We'll be right back.
This is the Ramsey Show.

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Speaker 1 Welcome back to the Ramsey Show alongside George Camille. I'm Ken Coleman, 888.

Speaker 1 825-5225 is the number. All right, folks, for those of you who are aware of the baby steps, how you doing?

Speaker 1 How you tracking along? If you want to take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan, we've got it for you.

Speaker 1 All you got to do is go to the show notes, click on the link titled, Are You On Track with the Baby Steps? and complete the quiz. And there's some real value in this, George.
Tell them why.

Speaker 2 Well, a lot of people are just, you got to know where you are to know where you're going.

Speaker 2 And it'll give you a really clear next step to take in the Ramsey plan with tools, resources, articles, you name it.

Speaker 2 And so this is a great way to just jump in, send this link to a friend who isn't aware of us. And I got to say, Ken, I really appreciated the Joey Tribiani, how you doing? Yeah.
At the very beginning.

Speaker 2 See what I did? Yeah, you really sold it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Friends, one of the greatest shows of all time.
So there you go.

Speaker 2 How you doing on the baby steps? Go find out.

Speaker 1 Click the link to the show. How you doing? Do they have a how you doing in Boston?

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's a little more aggressive and probably has more expletives, but you know.

Speaker 1 Give me a PG version of how you doing

Speaker 1 Bostonian.

Speaker 2 What's up, my guy?

Speaker 1 Okay. Something like that.
Okay, I like that. What's up, guy? I like that.
I like that. That's my Ben Affleck.
That's fantastic. You did well, by the way.

Speaker 1 By the way, it goes with the bomber jacket. Thank you.
I think the accent. Very tough.
Yeah. Let's go to Lynn in Madison, Wisconsin.
Lynn, how can we help?

Speaker 3 Hi, guys. I do need your help.

Speaker 1 Well, good news. We have got help to give.
I mean, I can't think of two guys that are more helpful than us. So you're in good help.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I have a, I'm hoping to get a dispute settled.

Speaker 1 Oh, I love dispute. Oh, it's between you and your husband.
It is. All right, let me ask this before we get going.
Is he by chance in the room with you

Speaker 1 he's not okay he's not i wish he were i do too because i am now starting this new trend here george we've done this one or two times we get both of them on the phone yeah that's more fun but okay we'll hear one side all right lynn let's go let's hear your side and his side okay all right well the question is i want to know if i'm a ramsey solutions hypocrite Oh,

Speaker 1 you're fighting words. I like how you lead off here.
We'll see if you're a Pharisee. Go ahead.

Speaker 3 All right. Well, some quick background.

Speaker 3 This is a second marriage for both of us. We were just married this past December.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 3 I'm age 58. She's age 54.

Speaker 3 We have a total of four adult children, two on each side.

Speaker 3 And I think a key thing for me was I was a single mom for 17 years. So my kids were two and three when I was divorced.
And I paid maintenance and I paid child support.

Speaker 3 I carried the health care and I paid for all the incidental for my kids.

Speaker 3 I found Ramsey Solutions after a layoff

Speaker 3 that scared me to death. So the stress left me, you know, in not a great place.
And I dug into the Ramsey plan. I bought in, I listened, I did financial peace university.

Speaker 3 And I started with a net worth of $170,000.

Speaker 3 My life insurance was more than my net worth.

Speaker 3 So coming into the marriage, I was baby step seven with a net worth of $1.9 million.

Speaker 1 Hey, way to go, Lynn.

Speaker 3 It was a lot of, well, it was a lot of small vacations at the local park.

Speaker 1 You're a rock star.

Speaker 1 Don't mess with Mama Bear, Lynn. Listen, let's just call that out.
That's hard work. Good for you.

Speaker 3 Thank you. It was hard work, but it was worth it because now here I am.
So baby step seven.

Speaker 3 And now my husband, he came to the marriage with a net worth of $150,000. Oh, okay.
And he was one of those guys who never found debt he didn't like. He had car loans.
He had a boat loan.

Speaker 3 He had credit cards. He kind of had everything.
And obviously, since we're married, we financially got into the same place. So I introduced him to Ramsey Solutions,

Speaker 3 you know, gave him financial peace university. We went through that.
And he's come aboard. So we've eliminated the credit card debt, the car loan,

Speaker 3 gotten rid of everything.

Speaker 3 I

Speaker 3 wanted going into the marriage, I wanted a prenup.

Speaker 3 And this is where the dispute came. And I wanted the prenup to state that if we divorced, I wanted to, the $625,000 that I was putting into paying off our residence accounted for.

Speaker 3 Now, that was if we divorced. I also asked for a death clause that states that should I die, he gets the house in the entirety.

Speaker 3 And there's no splitting it with my estate or anything like that value. It would be his.

Speaker 3 So it's just a divorce. If there was a divorce, I wanted that accounted for.
And then anything above and beyond that would be split equitably.

Speaker 3 And it's our intent that our retirement account would remain separate. So the principal of our retirement accounts would remain separate.

Speaker 3 If we draw anything out to pay for things for us, that's all commingled. And everything that all my all the other cash, everything would be split equally if we were if we divorced.

Speaker 3 I wouldn't be saying like, oh, well, we paid off the car while we were married. So my cash paid that off or whatever.
It was none of that.

Speaker 1 So what specifically, what specifically is he calling hypocritical?

Speaker 3 That I wanted a prenup.

Speaker 1 Just a prenup. Did he have any, but was he fine with certain parts of the that agreement? You just laid out a list.
Was he against all of those things?

Speaker 3 All of those things. He's like, absolutely, this is ridiculous.
I can't believe that

Speaker 3 you're going to be asking for a prenup. Once we're married, we're married, and everything should be equal.
I'm like, well, it is equal.

Speaker 3 I'm just saying if we get divorced, because I've been divorced before and I'm now 58,

Speaker 3 if I split half, which Wisconsin is a 50-50 state,

Speaker 3 I don't have time to recoup that again.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 1 And how long have you been married?

Speaker 3 Two months.

Speaker 1 I'm going to ask a stupid question, George, that I think you know the answer to.

Speaker 2 I may not.

Speaker 1 Try me. Can you get a prenup post-marriage?

Speaker 2 Post-nuptial?

Speaker 1 You can. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Well, we have the document now.

Speaker 1 We have it now. Oh, so he didn't want it, but you went ahead and got it drawn up anyway.

Speaker 3 Yep, we got it drawn up.

Speaker 3 We got to a place where those were the things we agreed on. I was trying to explain, like, hey,

Speaker 3 we're sharing all bank accounts. We're sharing everything.

Speaker 1 No, no, I get all that. I get all that.

Speaker 1 So is it signed?

Speaker 3 It's signed. The prenup was signed before our wedding.

Speaker 2 But he just resents you.

Speaker 1 So why are you calling us again?

Speaker 1 So what's the dispute?

Speaker 1 This is all moot point, right?

Speaker 3 No, no, I'm still a hypocrite.

Speaker 1 I'm still a Ramsey.

Speaker 3 And I don't, I'm not truly into the Ramsey solutions.

Speaker 2 Okay, well, just let me free you of all of this. There's no hypocrites here.
There's no Ramsey Bible that you've sinned against. Prenups are a very nuanced thing.

Speaker 2 And usually what we say is, unless there's a massive gap in net worth, and yours, it truly is not like a, oh my gosh, you're bringing millions and millions in. You have a a family business.

Speaker 2 There's massive generational wealth here. We're talking about someone who prepared for retirement and someone who's just getting started.
And it sounds like he's on the same page.

Speaker 2 You're on the same plan now. So you're on the edge of like, is this even necessary?

Speaker 2 But I understand with your backstory that you're just going, hey, I just can't be left out in a lurch, you know, not unable to retire if something were to happen.

Speaker 2 So I think you both need to go to counseling and deal with the underlying trust and communication issues. But there's no hypocrites here.
You did nothing wrong, quote unquote.

Speaker 2 So let me release you of that. That no one's going to, quote,

Speaker 1 we don't have like a blanket policy on that.

Speaker 2 No, it's just most people don't need one. Yeah.
And the guy goes, well, I'll make 40 grand and she makes 20. I need no, dude, you don't need a prenup.

Speaker 2 This is, we're talking about protecting your stuff from the crazy family around you, not from each other.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And had you called us, had you called us before you got it signed, I would have said

Speaker 1 Same thing that George said, but I would have said, I personally would not do one because I feel like a prenup is an acknowledgement that we could finish this thing and end this thing.

Speaker 1 And I'm not judging anybody that's been divorced. I want everybody to hear this.
I'm not judging anybody. Okay.

Speaker 1 I am blessed to come from, my wife and I both come from families where our parents have been married over 50 years. So we have a heritage that

Speaker 1 we inherit.

Speaker 2 We saw it.

Speaker 1 And when Stacey and I got married, there was no out.

Speaker 1 And we've been married 27 years.

Speaker 1 And there have been times it's been very, very hard. There's no out.

Speaker 1 Now, that's our position. I'm not prescribing that to anybody.

Speaker 1 I'm not proselytizing today, but I would say that I would have said ahead of time, I want you to go to counseling because you've got some very natural fears, Lynn.

Speaker 1 And I understand. I'm empathetic to go, if I were in your shoes, I could see where you could get to that point and want to protect yourself.
You've been burned, but so is he.

Speaker 1 And I think that this should have been counseling on the front end. You should not have forced this.
I'm gonna say something crazy here. If it were me, I'd tear it up.
Woo!

Speaker 1 And then I'd go to counseling. I think you forced the issue on this, and I think you gotta redo it.
That's what I would do. Oh boy, here come the hate round.

Speaker 2 This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 6 Hey, what's up, guys? It's Jade Warshaw. And look, if there's anybody who knows student loan debt is a problem, it's me.

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Speaker 1 This is the Ramsey Show. Welcome aboard.
This is where we help you, America, win in your life. We're going to help you win with your money, win in your profession, and win with your relationships.

Speaker 1 Triple 8-825-5225 is the phone number. Triple 8-825-5225.
I'm Ken Coleman. He's George Camel, and he may have the best beard in all of YouTube.

Speaker 2 Now you're just trying to entertain me, but I appreciate that.

Speaker 1 No, I mean, you gotta, it's well coiffed.

Speaker 2 I guess in the YouTube world, they can't grow facial hair, so I'll take that.

Speaker 1 Is that right? Yeah,

Speaker 1 you know, I'm making this stuff up. Yeah.
The fact that you fact-checked me on that is, you know, it's just a nice little. I appreciate that.
And you got a good five o'clock chat.

Speaker 1 You want to throw a little something positive your way? You know? I mean, it was a compliment.

Speaker 2 That's the kind of friendship we have.

Speaker 1 You couldn't receive it. I was just trying to say something nice about you.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 Let me restate it. Alongside George Camille, the man with the best bomber jacket jacket collection, and all of the

Speaker 1 food content.

Speaker 2 That Ken Coleman, I know and love.

Speaker 1 Oh, so you receive that one. Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 I mean, I can't grow a beard.

Speaker 2 I can choose what I receive.

Speaker 1 All right, well, I have agency. You figured out by now.
We like to have fun while we help you out because there's breakthrough on the other side of these calls. So let's get to it.

Speaker 1 Julie is in Tampa, Florida. Julie, how could we help today?

Speaker 3 Hi, how's it going?

Speaker 1 Good. How are you, Julie?

Speaker 3 Oh, thank you for taking my call. I prayed, and God put you guys.
I'm like, I'm just going to go to the top. I'm a pastor's kid here.

Speaker 1 Oh, hey, you're talking to a pastor's kid.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I didn't know. I'm like, do I go to my dad, my brother-in-law? I'm like, no, I'm just going to go straight to the top

Speaker 3 about money and call them.

Speaker 1 So thank you for taking

Speaker 1 all the time. I'm glad you made it through.

Speaker 2 So you're here for a reason.

Speaker 1 What's going on, Julie? Lay it on us. All right.
I'll be fine. I can feel the weight that's on you.
I'm skin, too. I'm really interested about what's coming our way here.
Okay, go, Julie.

Speaker 3 I just got through a pretty major health crisis that could have killed me. Major surgery.
I think we stopped counting it. 17 hospital stays last year.

Speaker 1 Oh, my goodness.

Speaker 3 So, and then I had complications and was admitted four more times.

Speaker 3 The problem is my parents have taken on some of the medical debt.

Speaker 3 And we had to move in with them while this has been going on. Now we owe them 50,000.

Speaker 3 I don't know, about 16 months ago, we decided to do the financial piece, you know, the Dave Ramsey program,

Speaker 3 which I refused to do because he reminded me so much. I'm like, dad, I didn't want to do it.
I'm like, no, it's dad telling me what to do. But we paid off almost $28,000 already in medical set.

Speaker 3 So it works. And we have our thousand

Speaker 3 in our checking account and we're doing snowball.

Speaker 1 How much is left now?

Speaker 3 So now all that's left is my mom and dad put 50 grand on like six, zero percent credit cards, and they're coming up to expire and go to 30 percent. They're afraid they're gonna lose their house.

Speaker 1 Oh my goodness.

Speaker 1 Why would they take this on?

Speaker 2 It was

Speaker 2 why couldn't you just go through the hospital to pay them and be in debt to the hospital where you could actually negotiate?

Speaker 3 And it was partially dental and cars.

Speaker 3 it was a little bit of cars, dental, and medical, those three things. And my dad swoops in and held, big heart, you know, driving me to appointments and my husband's working.
Just a

Speaker 3 lot of love, but we all agree we made a terrible mistake. We should have never combined it.

Speaker 3 And now here we are. And

Speaker 3 my husband,

Speaker 3 we've been married 25 years, and he has never been sick, never been a doctor. And he works a very, very dangerous job.

Speaker 3 There's been two deaths out at the plant in the last six months. And he fell with extremely high blood pressure and was put on,

Speaker 3 what is that, temporary disability for six weeks. So he's struggling with his health.
And he doesn't, my question to you is, this is where the rift is with my parents.

Speaker 3 He doesn't know why we can't move out, continue Dave Ramsey, which we have

Speaker 3 track record of doing it,

Speaker 3 and be on our own. He'll, it's a lot better for him with the rotating graveyards to have a quiet, dark room.
Right now, we're in a small house, one little noise.

Speaker 1 Why can't you move out, Julie?

Speaker 3 My dad's like, if you move out and you're not going to be able to do

Speaker 3 these, he wants us to do his plan. I want to do Dave.

Speaker 2 What's your dad?

Speaker 1 I'm going to go back to this. Hold on a second.
Before we even get, I don't even care about dad's plan because we're going to get lost in details that don't matter.

Speaker 1 You called, you wanted our help. I'm going to ask the question again.

Speaker 1 Why can't you and your husband move out?

Speaker 3 My dad wants us to stay until the debt's paid back to him.

Speaker 1 Okay, I'm going to ask it a third time. I'm going to ask it a third time, and you're going to see where I'm going.

Speaker 1 Why can't you and your husband move out of your parents' house?

Speaker 3 We can. We can afford both.

Speaker 1 Then that's what I'm getting at. Thank you, sir, in the lobby.
He was tracking with me. It took three times, Julie.

Speaker 1 But listen, this is why you called.

Speaker 1 My parents. No, no, listen.
There it is. That's the real reason.
That's the real reason. And you have a lot of respect for your dad.
You also feel a massive amount of guilt.

Speaker 1 The heaviness that George felt at the top of the call is guilt. Yeah.
Well, I got news for you.

Speaker 1 Well, I got news for you. You've done nothing illegal.

Speaker 1 You've done nothing unethical.

Speaker 1 No, it just happened to me yeah yeah but you guys did some nonsensical things with the credit card money stuff was really but here's the deal your dad doesn't get to tell you what to do you guys have been married 25 years how old are you

Speaker 3 yeah I'm 47 my husband's 51 and he hit my husband's telling my father we have a meeting tomorrow so this call is perfect timing they don't talk about it

Speaker 1 are you are you holding your husband up in other words if if you had already given him the green light uh would he have already moved you guys out?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I think I'm part of the problem maybe because I'm so concerned about my parents. And I think my dad's living in the what if

Speaker 3 will COVID happen.

Speaker 1 It's not his life. George, I want to bring you in here.
I've been

Speaker 2 just, here's the deal. Your dad decided to take on that credit card debt in his own name.
That's on him. And so he cannot guilt you or manipulate you into doing anything.

Speaker 2 So have a written agreement of how we're going to pay this back, and it's going to have nothing to do with your living arrangements.

Speaker 1 he's holding you in a prison you know what's going to happen miserable you know what's going to happen you're going to end up hurting your husband while trying not to hurt your dad

Speaker 3 well that's my fear is because my husband he's his blood pressure because of the stress of the job just imagine an oil rig that on land it's so dangerous julie julie julie julie julie you're taking on the weight of the world julie stop God bless you.

Speaker 1 I want to give you a hug. I don't want you to feel me criticizing you, but I want you to hear me.
No, I can take it. No, no, no, no, no, listen.

Speaker 1 I'm not criticizing you, but I'm trying to be so blunt with you.

Speaker 1 Your husband needs you to support him.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Period.
There is nothing else.

Speaker 1 Then move.

Speaker 1 He needs a new job.

Speaker 2 And that's going to be a new chapter for you guys.

Speaker 1 I wish we could call him right now. And tell him.
He's here right now. He is?

Speaker 3 Yeah, you want to say hi to Jake?

Speaker 1 Jake, Jake. Can you hear us? Hey guys, how are you doing? Hey, Jake, Julie wants to support you, so you got to make the man move now.
We just talked to her about it. We told her.

Speaker 1 She's got to follow you. She wants to follow you, but she's also trying not to hurt dad.
So now it's time for you to go, babe, it's going to be okay.

Speaker 1 I'll support you dealing with whatever dad's going to throw at you, but we

Speaker 1 are going to leave and cleave.

Speaker 2 We got plans tonight. We're going to Home Depot.
We're buying some boxes and we're going out.

Speaker 1 And by the way, we're not asking permission. Are you willing to lead, sir?

Speaker 3 Yes, sir. Well, and that's been the whole challenge.

Speaker 1 No, no, we got to go. I'm so sorry.
I got a commercial break. I'm not being rude.
Lead. Go get the boxes now.

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Speaker 2 Listen, I know a lot of you would rather watch paint dry in slow motion than file your taxes. But thankfully, you don't have to dread filing when you've got Ramsey Smart Tax.

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Speaker 2 That's ramseysolutions.com/slash smart tax.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to the Ramsey Show alongside George Camille on Ken Coleman, and it's Camill and Coleman.

Speaker 2 That's a law firm you'd hire right there.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that is, isn't it? What would we specialize in, you think?

Speaker 2 Probably personal injury. We'd be on like the park benches, buses, you know,

Speaker 1 real better call songs. All of us doing commercials together talking about call us,

Speaker 1 you know, like that whole, it's so smarmy.

Speaker 2 Yeah, we'd be very smarmy. I think we would.
And that's the vibe we put off.

Speaker 1 That's right.

Speaker 1 Tyler is in Dallas, Texas. Let's go to Tyler.
Tyler, how can we help?

Speaker 3 Hey guys, how's it going?

Speaker 1 Good. What's going on?

Speaker 3 So I'm in a position or a predicament, I guess you could call it. I have two job opportunities.
One being a

Speaker 3 former employer that I was laid off with workforce reduction and a new job. Both have benefits and both have a downside to them.
And me and my fiancé

Speaker 3 were just kind of stuck in the middle of which one would be best, and I'm just trying to seek out some advice, maybe an opinion of what you think would be best.

Speaker 1 Okay, great. So, give us the pros of we'll call it job number one, and let's go with

Speaker 1 that's going back to your previous employer. Did I understand that right? Yes, sir.
Okay, so

Speaker 1 give me the pros of going back there.

Speaker 3 So, the pros for that one are is going to be the pay.

Speaker 3 The pay is significantly, it's about

Speaker 3 40 to fifty thousand more a year.

Speaker 1 What's the total pay?

Speaker 3 Well, it's hourly, but um like I said, it was previous, so I I cleared about a hundred, a hundred and ten

Speaker 1 jobs there.

Speaker 3 Okay. Um

Speaker 3 and they the the retirement's also really good. The benefits are about the same for each, but one of them doesn't have a pension and my former employer does.

Speaker 1 So that's what you mean when you say the retirement's really good? Is the pension program?

Speaker 3 Yes, sir. Okay.

Speaker 1 What's the second job?

Speaker 1 What's the difference in pay?

Speaker 3 Difference in pay, I'll probably making close to 70 there, 60 to 70.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 another thing is the shift difference.

Speaker 3 So that's a big one. We have two kids, and our third's on the way.

Speaker 3 And that's kind of where

Speaker 3 it's a little different.

Speaker 3 Previous job was manufacturing manufacturing

Speaker 3 automobiles, and

Speaker 3 the new job would be repair and maintenance on aircrafts.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 And you're torn between this? I mean, this is a massive pay difference. The shift to me, shifts can shift.
Sorry for being cheesy. But it's not like you're stuck in that shift forever.

Speaker 1 But my goodness, you're talking about the difference between $110K and $70K.

Speaker 3 Yeah, and there's one more thing there.

Speaker 3 so my previous employer, they won't pay for like school or anything like that.

Speaker 3 Like they have some certain programs that they'll cover, but this new job, starting day one, they'll pay all tuition for any school I want to do.

Speaker 1 Okay, so where do you want to end up? Now, this changes the entire conversation for me. Where do you want to be 10 years, 15, 20 years from now? What are you doing professionally?

Speaker 3 I want to have my own business.

Speaker 1 Doing what? So,

Speaker 3 more than likely construction.

Speaker 1 And would the degree that this second option would be willing to pay for, would that be an absolute must to get into construction?

Speaker 3 I see that there's benefits for it.

Speaker 1 I didn't ask you that. I didn't ask you that.

Speaker 1 So, let me put it this way: my policy on any degree has always been and will always be this: is the degree, I don't care if it's undergrad or grad, is it the only way to do what you want to do, or is it the best way to do what you want to to do so answer the question that way no then don't freaking do it it is wasted time which is our greatest asset as humans is time

Speaker 2 and it's wasted money so man I just saved you a lot of time and money and with three kids is your wife working outside the home or is she home with the kiddos

Speaker 1 uh she's at home she works from home okay i would not take the new job i'd go back to the previous employer.

Speaker 2 Yeah, there's not enough pluses on this new one to take it.

Speaker 1 Which way were you leaning?

Speaker 3 Well, I was kind of in the middle because, I mean, I'd

Speaker 1 worked. No, you were not.
You know, it's impossible to be in the middle. There was a way that you were leaning before you made the call.
Which way were you leaning? You couldn't get a hold of us and

Speaker 1 you had to make a decision in two minutes and you're on the phone and they go, I can't get you in with Ken and George today. And you got to give the answer.
Which way were you leaning? Tell the truth.

Speaker 3 Probably the money.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Because you got a brain and you got people who rely on you. And the money in this equation sets you up better to be a business owner than this degree does.

Speaker 2 The construction business is an expensive business to get into.

Speaker 1 That's right. You need a lot of cash.
A lot of cushion, too. You need a fat emergency fund.
You need no debt.

Speaker 1 And George, take it away on the pension thing, too, because we don't want him just relying on that pension. I want to bring you into that.

Speaker 2 Pensions over time have way underperformed the market.

Speaker 2 And so I know it sounds alluring because it's like, well, it's guaranteed income, but you can do better investing on your own in any company retirement plan.

Speaker 2 So I would not make the decision just for the pension alone. That's a fine byproduct if they have it.

Speaker 2 But I would not make your decision based on that. And then financially, are you guys in a good spot? Do you have any debt? Do you have an emergency fund?

Speaker 3 So, yeah, we have an emergency fund. We have about two and a half months in that.

Speaker 3 Debt, we have just her vehicle left.

Speaker 3 We've got everything pretty much

Speaker 1 as far as say it again. What's left on her vehicle?

Speaker 3 30, 30,000.

Speaker 2 And how much do you have in savings?

Speaker 3 For our personal savings or the

Speaker 2 all liquid cash you have access to, including the emergency fund?

Speaker 3 Probably $8,000.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 We've got some work to do here. If you're going to follow the Ramsey plan, we've got to knock out this car loan before we're working on that emergency fund.

Speaker 2 But you also told me you have a third baby on the way.

Speaker 3 Yes, sir.

Speaker 2 So let's pause and stack up cash. But as soon as baby and mommy are home healthy, let's push play and dump that savings into the car if you do decide to keep it.

Speaker 2 You may decide to sell it, but that's, you know, your income supports having a $30,000 car, but not a $30,000 car loan. That's a lot.

Speaker 1 So George and I have

Speaker 1 spoken. You take the better paying job because of the long-term play here.
And man, I just want to reiterate this.

Speaker 1 There's a really handsome guy out in the lobby that was shaking his head when I was giving my little, is it the only way or is it the best way degree thing?

Speaker 1 I want to just re-emphasize that because I know that's new to people in the show. And I have found, because I've coached 10,000 people on this very issue, Ken, should I get a degree?

Speaker 1 What should I do to grow in my professional development? And the degree is, when it is the only way, it's a no-brainer. When it's the best way, it's still a no-brainer, but you may need to be patient.

Speaker 1 But this idea that, well, this, I can go get a degree and they pay for it, and now I got this degree, and all of a sudden, you know, this piece of paper,

Speaker 1 you know, I can, I can see it. It's a degree.
People think it's like a Willy Wonka golden ticket. It's a diploma.
Yeah. And it does not guarantee success.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I just just can't say it enough, George, because this comes back to Borrowed Future. This comes back to some of the podcasts that you've done.

Speaker 1 I mean, this is what you talk about traps in your book, Breaking Free from Brooke.

Speaker 2 I have a whole chapter on student loans, and I quote your very, is it the only way? Is it the best way? Because it's a trap so many kids fall into because they think, well, this is the only path.

Speaker 2 If I don't go to college, I'm going to be destitute in my little town and never make it anything for myself.

Speaker 2 And the truth is, I see more people who took on crippling student loan debt for a degree they didn't care about, that had no real marketplace value, they had no passion in, and now they're left picking up the pieces, working a job because they have to to make the payment.

Speaker 2 Yeah, this is the insanity. This is the loop.
Let's go to college to get a job to pay off the loans with a job.

Speaker 1 And it's sold to us as it sucks, but you got to do it. No, getting a student loan or going to get a degree that you can't afford is not like going to the dentist.
You got to go to the dentist.

Speaker 1 You don't have to go to college. And I just think that that's the cultural message here.
And I think it's slowly eroding as we see the crazy compound of student loan debt.

Speaker 2 So when people are going to the trades or starting small businesses because they're going, I don't want to be like that guy. $150,000 in student loan debt, nothing to show for it.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Ugh. It's crazy.
Do you floss regularly, George?

Speaker 2 Three times a day. Do you?

Speaker 1 Yeah, probably too much.

Speaker 2 I want to learn more about very offensive, my dentist asked. Do you floss?

Speaker 1 Can you not tell?

Speaker 2 Doing it so much, man.

Speaker 1 Wow. I'll learn more about your flossing technique on the break.
Thank you. Don't go anywhere.
We'll be right back. This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 7 This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right, you've heard me say it a thousand times, and I'm going to keep saying it.

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Speaker 1 Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman.
George Camill is with me.

Speaker 1 This is your show, Triple 8-825-5225. George is going to coach you up on how to save and invest your money, and I'm going to coach you up on how to make more money.
So, that is the combo today.

Speaker 1 Time for our Ramsey Show question of the day, brought to you by YReFi. When the payment on your defaulted private student loan is as much as some mortgages, it's hard to get ahead.

Speaker 1 That's why, when YReFi, and that's actually when YReFi can help, refinancing to a low-fixed rate loan built just for you. Find out more at yrefi.com slash Ramsey.
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Speaker 1 F Y dot com slash Ramsey. It may not be available in all states.

Speaker 2 Today's question comes from Kyle in Colorado. I'm 30 years old and earn around $200,000 per year.
I owe $255,000 on my house and $50,000 on my vehicle.

Speaker 2 I max out my 401k every year with a current balance of $150,000. I also have a Robinhood account with roughly $15,000 in it and invest $500,000 there every month.
Cash on hand is around $20,000.

Speaker 2 I'm wondering if it's better to invest in the stock market or pay off my truck and home before considering any other investments outside of my 401k and monthly contributions to Robinhood.

Speaker 1 Well, he's almost there.

Speaker 2 Yeah, at least he's questioning his decisions. That's a good start to wonder if you're even doing it the right way.
So here's the truth, Kyle. You can do what you want.
You have an amazing salary.

Speaker 2 You can out-earn your stupidity for a long time and afford that payment for as long as you want, my friend. But if I'm in your shoes, I'm following the Ramsey plan.

Speaker 2 I'm going to get rid of that vehicle, ASAP. It's not too much much for your income.

Speaker 2 So if you want to keep it and pay it off aggressively, I would, my guess is your Robinhood account of $15,000 is not retirement.

Speaker 2 So you could cash that out along with your $20K on hand, and that'll get your loan down to about $15,000. And making $200,000, that thing's done within, what, 90 days or less.

Speaker 2 Your vehicle loan is gone. Now, regarding the house, would I put extra on the house? I would be on 15% of your income.

Speaker 2 And so if you're talking about $200,000, that means $30,000 a year going into retirement accounts.

Speaker 2 That means you could max out a Roth 401k, you could do a backdoor Roth IRA, and that would get you to that 30K.

Speaker 2 And then you can move on from there to paying off the house with any extra money beyond that, which you should have plenty of when you free up that $50,000 vehicle loan payment.

Speaker 2 Goodness, that's got to be probably an $800,000, $900 payment right there, if not more. So that'll free you up to start throwing that on the mortgage and get you on track for the baby steps.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I love the advice. Couldn't agree more.
I mean, he's putting 500 a month in the Robinhood account. So if we just start moving that over as well to the truck, that's probably gone soon.

Speaker 1 So he's going to knock the truck out quick and then

Speaker 1 you start working on the house.

Speaker 2 Yeah, he's probably taking home $13,000, $14,000 a month. And so you could, if you just get on a real bare-bones budget, you could knock that vehicle out in probably two months if you got serious.

Speaker 1 I love that.

Speaker 2 I like this plan. I like it.

Speaker 1 Thanks for the question. All right, back to the phones we go.
Triple 8-825-5225. Andrew is in Austin, Texas.
Andrew, how can we help?

Speaker 3 Hi, thank you for taking the time to answer my question.

Speaker 1 Sure, what's going on?

Speaker 3 Yeah, so back when I was going to college, my parents and I took out student loans to pay for them.

Speaker 3 When taking out the loans, there was no conversation about me having any responsibility for the parent portion of the loans.

Speaker 3 Now, six years later, my parents are blaming my sisters and I for not having any money in retirement and for filing bankruptcy and saying that after after all of that, we're going to have to take over the loans because

Speaker 3 they shouldn't have to worry about that this time in their lives. And I told them no, but that caused a bunch of arguments.
And

Speaker 3 I suggested family counseling and that was rejected too.

Speaker 3 And I guess just want to know, are we in the wrong? Having tried to help them,

Speaker 3 it seems like they have no willingness to change and letting money come between the family.

Speaker 2 No, what they've done is gross to put that on you.

Speaker 2 You are not the solution to their financial mess, and they're just in a real pickle and looking at their pile of debts going, well, if the kids didn't cause all of this harm to us, we would have been in a very different place.

Speaker 2 The truth is they have been reckless for a long time with their money. They didn't have a conversation about what was going to happen with college and student loans.

Speaker 2 They decided to take on all of the debt in their name only with this parent plus loan with crazy high interest.

Speaker 2 And now they want to pin it on you and they're in a bind I'm not buying it and I'm guessing the relationship with your parents has not been great for a long time

Speaker 2 that is correct yes it's been transactional and very well look at what we did for you and this is what you have to do for us and I'm also guessing there is a lot more debt laying around here than just these parent plus loans

Speaker 3 that as far as I know yes

Speaker 3 you know they never they're never open about it so I would wouldn't know for sure but the bankruptcy wouldn't even yeah bankruptcy does not discharge student loans. Right.

Speaker 1 So why would they do it if it was only the student loans?

Speaker 2 Exactly. Do you know anything about their financial picture?

Speaker 3 I don't know exactly. No,

Speaker 3 they've never been open about it.

Speaker 1 This is just so warped. The way you describe this,

Speaker 1 I just think you need such clear and very high boundaries that are in stone, like concrete boundaries,

Speaker 1 not flexible plastic fencing boundaries. This is just so weird.

Speaker 1 And I think there needs to be a real clear, clean boundary established and walk away from this nonsense because this isn't just coming at you. They're coming at your sisters too, you said.

Speaker 1 So this is so unhealthy and so, and I use the word warped on purpose.

Speaker 1 You got to make a clean cut for now and hope for healing. You know, hope for something, but there's nothing you can do anyway.
So them putting this guilt trip on you because they're desperate.

Speaker 1 And I'm not, I don't want to be too critical, George, of the parents. It is warped.
It's crazy unhealthy,

Speaker 1 but they are hurting and they're desperate. And this smells of desperation.

Speaker 2 That's usually when you go to blame everyone else is when you're backed into a corner like this.

Speaker 2 And so the best thing you can do is be kind, be firm, be respectful, set the boundary and let them know, hey, listen, I'm not in a position to pay this back. We never had this conversation.

Speaker 2 There's nothing nothing in writing saying that we were going to be obligated to pay this debt. You guys decided this is how we're going to help and, quote, pay for school.

Speaker 2 And therefore, it's your responsibility. And if you're in a position to help, if you're going, hey, we got the money sitting in savings and we want to morally do this, that's fine.

Speaker 2 But you have no legal responsibility to pay this back.

Speaker 2 And I wouldn't let them guilt trip you into saying, well, if mom and dad are going to be homeless unless you foot the bill, I'm not buying that either.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I agree. That just feels so manipulative.

Speaker 1 Let's see if we can get Eric in. Eric is in Atlanta, Georgia.
Eric, how can we help?

Speaker 3 Hey, how are you guys doing?

Speaker 1 Good. What's going on today?

Speaker 3 Hey, so I have a pretty personal question here. So I would say I'm pretty far well off in terms of financial stability.
My question is if I should save for an extra rainy day.

Speaker 3 And that extra rainy day meaning marriage and future kids most likely. Or should I be a little bit more selfish with my spending and just kind of boost my own standards of living?

Speaker 2 Well, I want to release you from the selfishness. Let's find option C, where it's not save for a fictitious family.
I don't know what we're saving for, but, or save for me to buy a nice car.

Speaker 2 What's going on financially with you? Do you have a bunch of money laying around?

Speaker 3 Well, let's see. My net worth is right around $350,000.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 3 And I already have a house that's already paid off as well.

Speaker 1 Amazing.

Speaker 2 And you got an emergency fund?

Speaker 3 The emergency fund is pretty much whatever is in my high-yield savings. Yeah.

Speaker 2 How much is there?

Speaker 3 $200,000.

Speaker 2 $200,000?

Speaker 3 Yeah, that's what I put in my high-yield savings for the maximum ROI on interest.

Speaker 2 Okay, but what do we, I like money to have a goal, and that is way beyond a six-month emergency fund for you. And so what would be your next goal? Are you saying, hey, I don't really have one?

Speaker 1 I have a pay-for-house.

Speaker 2 Are you investing 15% or more of your income at this point?

Speaker 3 Yeah, 15% is already invested into retirement funds each year.

Speaker 2 Okay, you sound like you are the eternal saver, and so it might be time to upgrade some things in your life reasonably. We're paying cash.
We're not going to have this be a large portion of our world.

Speaker 2 But if you want to buy a few nice toys, go for it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but he's in such a position that I'm not worried about him having money for a future family.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you're fine. It's a line item in the budget.
You know, a family doesn't show up and you go, I need $100,000. It's just a line item

Speaker 1 for a ring, and then for a wedding,

Speaker 2 you'll have the savings ready to go, my friend. I'd get out there, I'd get out of the house and start meeting some people.

Speaker 1 Maybe find a nice home. There we go.

Speaker 1 All right, this is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 2 We'll come up with a dating plan for Eric's life on the break.

Speaker 1 I talk to people every day who want to know how to do better in two areas: money and relationships. That's why I'm pumped to bring the Money and Relationships Tour to a city near you.
Join me and Dr.

Speaker 1 John Deloney for a night that will challenge the way you think about this stuff and possibly change how you live forever.

Speaker 1 Starting April 21st, we'll be in Louisville, then on to Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth, and Kansas City. Grab your tickets at ramseysolutions.com slash tour before they're gone.

Speaker 1 All right, folks, welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman.
George Campbell's alongside me.

Speaker 1 You know, money and relationships are two of the most important parts of our life and a lot of stress, a lot of conflict around those two areas, but You can win in your money and your relationships.

Speaker 1 But if you need some help,

Speaker 1 we've got a new tour, the Money and Relationships Tour. Very creative.

Speaker 1 I wonder how long the team stayed.

Speaker 2 Sadly, they probably came up with 17 cool names and then decided, let's just make it clear.

Speaker 1 Yeah, the Money and Relationships Tour. It's Dave Ramsey and John Deloney hitting the road for six nights.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 they're going to be taking on all topics. They're going to be taking questions.
They're going to be kind of live and unscripted, unfiltered.

Speaker 1 Raising money, smart kids, how to fight fairly in marriage, finding contentment.

Speaker 1 The cities are Louisville on April 21, Durham, North Carolina, April 23, Atlanta, Georgia, April 25, Phoenix, May 5, Fort Worth, Texas on May 7, Kansas City on May 9th. You don't want to miss this.

Speaker 1 Go to ramseysolutions.com slash tour. Ramseysolutions.com slash tour.

Speaker 1 And if you're listening via podcast or you're watching on YouTube, click on the link in the show notes, which, by the way, I should say, the show notes are a treasure trove, I should say.

Speaker 1 I didn't say it well, but I did say it. The

Speaker 1 gems. Hidden gem.
Anything we talk about, if you didn't catch it and you're on podcast or YouTube, go to the show notes and we've got a link for you. All right.

Speaker 1 Jordan's up next in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Jordan, how can we help today?

Speaker 3 Happy Friday, guys. How are you guys doing?

Speaker 1 Happy Friday, sir.

Speaker 3 So I'm 26.

Speaker 3 I have a house that's paid off. Me and my fiancé have minimal to no debt, probably the maximum we have.
I have around $1,100. She has around like $1,400 to $1,500 in debt.

Speaker 3 I started trading options about five years ago, wasn't successful, sort of sat down for the past two years, three years,

Speaker 3 researching, studying markets. You guys are king of investing.
So I wanted to get your advice on it. I started about four or five weeks ago with $660,

Speaker 3 and my account is now sitting at $4,800 and

Speaker 3 $200.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 3 I don't know if I should continue with the strategy that I'm using of trading options, or

Speaker 3 do I move to a different strategy?

Speaker 2 Well, you've called the right show and the wrong show. You're not going to like what I tell you to do, and you probably won't do it.

Speaker 2 I would tell you to stop day trading immediately and focus on long-term wealth building through your normal day job income. Do you have a normal day job?

Speaker 3 Yeah, so that's actually what got me back into trading because I started this current position I'm at. I work 412 a week, so it gives me two to three days to day trade.

Speaker 3 I'm currently making $42.35 an hour, I believe it is, or $3,240.

Speaker 2 Okay, so you're making about $85,000 a year if you're doing that 40 hours a week. You said you're doing 48 hours a week, so it's probably a little more than that.

Speaker 3 Correct, yeah. Okay.

Speaker 2 And what makes you go, I need more?

Speaker 2 Clearly, you're enjoying doing this,

Speaker 1 and you haven't been burned by it yet.

Speaker 3 Correct.

Speaker 1 Okay. Let me tell you that.

Speaker 3 No, I have been burned the first two years. I want to say I've lost close to $4,000 to $5,000 within the first two years.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 So here's the stat, and you fell perfectly into it. 97% of day traders who persisted for more than 300 days lost money.

Speaker 2 And many people go borrow money to make trades, going into debt to leverage, right?

Speaker 2 And we've taken some gut-wrenching calls on the Ramsey show from people who have lost 30 grand, 150 grand, even $300,000 by day trading. And it breaks my heart.
And here's the problem.

Speaker 2 It's easy to feel like you're the exception when you're winning. Correct.
And it's easy to go, well, it's always going to be, I'm good at this. It's just gambling at the end of the day.

Speaker 2 And if you do your research, it's just researched gambling, which still has a lot of risk. And I'm with Dave Ramsey on this.
I just hate losing money.

Speaker 2 And so the easiest way to avoid that is to not gamble it. And so what I do is I invest into retirement plans.

Speaker 2 If I want to invest outside of that, I would invest into an index fund and a taxable brokerage account and call it a day.

Speaker 2 And so I would focus on...

Speaker 1 Yeah, because I don't, here's the problem.

Speaker 2 You're spending hours and hours a week staring at these screens trying to time the market.

Speaker 2 And instead, the better thing to do is instead of timing the market is just have time in the market through compound growth and a long-term strategy. This is the tortoise beats the hare.

Speaker 2 You've heard that?

Speaker 3 I've heard that. I've also heard the whole gambling, it's short money gains.

Speaker 3 Don't get into it. You might win now, but you're going to lose it all later.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and I don't think it's worth the mental calories. I don't think it's worth the stress, the anxiety, the risk.
Our plan is all about peace. You've heard it, financial peace.

Speaker 2 And so can I tell you how many times I've thought about my investments over the last six months? Zero.

Speaker 2 I go, oh, market's down. All right, I'm going to go get a coffee.
I just don't care because I'm investing for the long term.

Speaker 2 And if you're investing for a shorter term purchase, like real estate, just park it in an index fund, let it ride. That's what Dave does.

Speaker 2 And when he finds a good piece of property, he'll cash out enough to buy the property. But I would never encourage anyone to do single stocks or even a single crypto coin.

Speaker 2 And day trading falls squarely in that with even more because now it's a whole career you can make out of it of saying I'm a day trader. And so

Speaker 2 you're too smart to do this stuff.

Speaker 1 You know, I heard on the news this morning? Got to get your quick take on it. What's that? There is now a crypto bar in New York City.

Speaker 2 Oh, I have heard about this. Have you heard this?

Speaker 1 Yeah. And I was thinking of you.
I heard it. I was like, I wonder what George knows about this.
So I guess.

Speaker 2 I'll tell you, it's the worst place to meet a woman because you won't find one in there. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So if you just want to hang out with other crypto.

Speaker 1 Yeah, Stuart Varney was asking, this was on Fox Business. Stuart Varney was asking his female co-host who was talking about it.
He's like, can you pay for your beer with crypto? And she's like, yeah.

Speaker 1 And she's like, you wouldn't know how to do it. So I guess Stuart has not jumped on the crypto train, but very interesting.
Yeah. A crypto bar.

Speaker 2 I've got a dark curiosity.

Speaker 1 She said it's full of crypto enthusiasts. Oh, wow.
So there you go. So my point is, next time you're in New York doing media, I think you should do that for TikTok and Instagram.

Speaker 1 Just do a little drop-in.

Speaker 2 Just see if anyone starts filling me saying, I saw George at a crypto bar.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yep.

Speaker 2 That could be fun. No, thank you.
All right.

Speaker 1 Let's go to Sarah in Denver, Colorado. Sarah, how can we help?

Speaker 3 Hi, I'm excited to talk to my money heroes.

Speaker 1 How are you? Wow, you're a money hero. Hold on a second.
Let me put my cape over the chair here. There it is.
There it goes. How can we help?

Speaker 3 So my husband and I are in our 40s, and we're doing great for ourselves. We're maxing out 401ks and IRAs and we're paying off the house with double payments.
Wow.

Speaker 3 And we're kind of deciding, trying to decide what to do going forward, you know, once everything's paid off and exploring some options to help our adult kids.

Speaker 3 So one of the things that we thought about was encouraging them to save even more for themselves and offering them the possibility of maybe, you know, if they put forth like a third of their Rothmax for a year, would we double that, you know, and give them the other two-thirds?

Speaker 3 And so I guess I just wanted to find out what you guys thought about that.

Speaker 2 Yeah, so essentially you want to gift your children money to help set them up for success and wealth down the road. And there's a lot of ways to do that.
How old are the children?

Speaker 3 They are 23 and 24.

Speaker 2 Wonderful. And they're all working full-time, gainfully employed?

Speaker 3 Well, there's one that's doing a little better than the other, employment-wise, you know, money-wise, and they're still learning for sure.

Speaker 2 That's great. Well, I like the idea of sort of a match because that encourages them to actually do the behavior instead of you doing it for them.

Speaker 2 But there's a lot of ways to do this. If it's not wealth, it might be, hey, we wanted to gift you some down payment money and it has to go toward the house.

Speaker 2 And so there's a lot of ways you could do that. I love the idea of just, you know, contributing to that.

Speaker 2 I don't know if you just wrote them a check for $3,000, would you trust that they'd actually go invest that into an IRA?

Speaker 2 That's the question.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I do think that both of them would go do that if that was the intention, yes.

Speaker 2 Okay. I would demand proof because I'm that guy.
I'd be like, all right, here's the deal. I'm going to give this to you.

Speaker 2 I need proof in one week that you've actually deposited this money or else I rescind it.

Speaker 2 So it's okay to give with strings attached because they're going to benefit from it. And here's what you should do.

Speaker 2 Sit down with an investment calculator, show them what this money will turn into when they retire to 63. And they're going to go, oh my gosh, mom, you didn't give me $3,000.
You just gave me $150,000.

Speaker 2 That's

Speaker 1 I love that play. I'm starting to do that with my kids, and they're starting to pay attention a little bit.
So I love that advice.

Speaker 2 Uncle George will come over. I'll show them the ropes.

Speaker 1 We need more Uncle George around the house. All right, folks, appreciate you being with us.
This is the Ramsey Show.