Money Is a Tool To Create a Life You Love

live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions. It's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create amazing experiences.
I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with my good friend and best-selling author,

George Camel,

and co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour. That's right.
We do another podcast together. And so we are here to answer your question.
So give us a call at 888-825-5225, and we'll be talking about your life and your money. So kicking us off this hour is Marissa in St.
Louis. Hey, Marissa, welcome to the show.
Hi, happy to be on it. Love smart money.
Happy hour. Thank you.
Got your two favorite hosts then. My question is, should we get a high deductible, high premium health insurance plan or a traditional health insurance plan? My husband and I are on baby steps four, five, six, and we just had our third baby in November.
Oh, congratulations. So exciting.
Thank you. Are you guys relatively healthy people, would you say? For the most part, yes.
Our two older kids have both had to have um tubes in their ears twice so that's yeah not fun expense to have to pay but other than that we're mostly healthy okay okay yeah because i feel like for me george that's kind of how we've decided it overall of like health of the family yeah i mean that's kind of the way we've we've dictated it i mean i don't know yeah you. Yeah, there's kind of like a spectrum, almost a bell curve if you think about it.

If there's a ton of health issues in the family, the high deductible health plan could be good

because you'll hit your out-of-pocket max and it's going to be 100% covered.

And if there's very little health issues in the family, it could also be good.

And if you're somewhere in between, you might want to go with a traditional plan.

Now, I have chosen to go with a high deductible health plan.

I love the low premium.

You guys are in Baby Steps 456. You can take on a little more risk from the insurance company by having that higher deductible.
And I love the fact that you get the health savings account with many of these high deductible health plans. And that's a really cool health savings tool, but also kind of a life hack retirement option as well, because you can invest inside of that.
And it's triple tax advantage. So I'm just a big fan of the high deductible health plan.
But again, it's a very personal decision based on the health of your family. Have you guys priced out both, Marissa? Yes, we have.
And the reason why we're going through all this is because with the third kid, we decided I wasn't going back to work. And we're going from everyone being on my health insurance plan to now all of us being on my husband.

Got it.

And what would be the out-of-pocket max on his plan now for the whole family?

Oh, gosh.

I believe it is $16,000.

$16,000.

Okay.

And how much do you have in the emergency fund?

We currently have $17,000, but with me not going back to work, we're about to up it to $25,000. Yeah, I think that'll give you some peace.
And again, you can price it out. You can even talk to, you know, Healthcare Insurance Pro through RamseySolutions.com to help you kind of navigate some of this and you can crunch the numbers.
I personally wouldn't burn too many brain calories over it. You can kind of look at what you guys have spent on healthcare in the past, what the premiums are, what the deductibles are, the out-of-pocket max.
Those are really the main things you want to look at to decide. But the main thing is you got good coverage.
You know what the in-network care is, and you're not going outside of that. And do I have good care with the network S that I've chosen? And so when it comes to the Ramsey plan, I go, what's the cheapest option I can pay for

that still covers my family?

Because really you want for the big catastrophic stuff.

That's right.

A little ankle biter stuff.

I'm like, whatever.

Well, because yeah, you got three kids.

So you're going to be going,

you know, you're gonna go to the pediatrician

during the winter, probably one or two times.

But if you're getting, you know, tubes and surgeries,

that's where you want to go.

All right, I want to know this is my max out of pocket.

Yes, exactly.

That gives me some peace knowing

that's in the emergency fund. That's a worst case scenario.
Good to go. All right, let's go to Holly in San Antonio.
Hey, Holly, welcome to the show. Hey, thank you so much for having me.
I appreciate it. Absolutely.
How can we help? Well, I got started with you guys late. I am debt free now with the the exception of my mortgage.
Oh, great. But I didn't start investing until about age 55.
I'm 58 and a half now. I fully maxed out my Roth as much as I can.
I have another mutual fund investment that I put my 15% in every month. But what I have is years ago, I got into an annuity and I had about 27,000 sitting there.
I stopped contributing to that and started contributing more to my mutuals and the Roth and everything. My question is, I have, if I pull it out early, so basically a year early, there's a 10% penalty on that.
Would it be valuable for me to just pull that out now, roll that into my mutual funds, or should I wait for a year and then pull it out when I hit that 59 and a half? What does the 10% penalty amount to? What's the dollar amount? I have about $27,000 in there, so it's about $2,700. Okay.
And what would you pay to keep it going for the next year until you can cash it out without penalty? It's nothing. I'm not putting anything into it or anything at all.
It's just sitting there. Then, I mean, I'm doing the math on this going, all right, I could pony up $2,700 or just leave it for a year.
That's not a long amount of time at this stage of the game. So it might just be worth waiting.
Okay. Yeah, is it a variable? What type of annuity is it, Holly? Like a variable or a fixed? I got to be honest.
I believe so. It's been sitting there.
It's not earning anything at all. Totally, yeah.
Yeah, they do not have good returns, and I'm sorry that you even fell into this trap. Annuities make sense for almost nobody.
And the only one that would even be okay in the Ramsey world, if you really wanted to do it, is a variable annuity. But even then, you're better off investing.
These are used to prey upon people who are scared of the stock market, who want the stability, but they don't realize they're missing out. And there is actually more risk in missing out on the returns.
And so I would just let it sit. You know, the damage is done.
You're going to be okay. Do you have a good nest egg? Are you going to be able to retire when you want to? You know, I would probably, you know, I would love to retire at 65, but I'm also with the mindset that if I'm still doing good and enjoying what I do, I'm just going to keep going.
So. Absolutely.
Yeah, that. I'm working on building as much as I can.
I don't, I mean, I'll get a teacher pension as well. So that'll help.
But I want to work as long as I can to build it up as much as I can. Yeah, if you continue to max out retirement accounts from, you know, you said you're 58 and a half for the next seven years or so.
Well, you're also your investments are going to double in that amount of time if it gets an average 10% rate of return. So you should be hopefully in good shape with the pension and everything you've got going on.
But I wouldn't let my foot off the gas for sure. No, absolutely not.
But I thank you guys for all your help because you've helped get me to this spot and I can't thank you enough. That means the world.
You did all the hard work. Yeah, you did it.
So yeah, for sure. Wait a year so you don't have to pay that 10%, but then I would take it out and invest in, like George said, kind of that seven-year mark.
Because I always just say easy math, Holly, too, if you're like, okay. Because if you, yeah, if you pulled out and put in a mutual fund, you know, you're going to get, you know, 55 grand or so.
Yeah. You know, just sitting there.
Way more than you have in the annuity. Yeah.
Tons. I mean, it's crazy.
So. These annuities, Rachel, they're being peddled more by advisors.
Yeah. And it's because of the fear element that people are.
I mean, and especially after an election year, when the housing market even feels like, oh my gosh, it just, everything just feels big and scary out there. And it feels safer to put your money in something like an annuity

because you don't have the risk of everything.

But yet your money's just, it's not making the return it could.

And they're so expensive.

The amount of fees and commissions built into these.

I was going to say, they make a lot, right?

The financial.

I mean, it's why they push whole life and annuities

instead of telling you, hey, just go invest in your 401k.

You'll be, they got to make their money.

And so I don't like these quote unquote wealth strategists and advisors that are really just insurance salespeople. Not George.
Sorry, Rachel. Coming in hot today.
Coming in hot with high deductible healthcare plans and annuities. It's a hot show.
It's a crazy show out there. This is the Ramsey show.
You spent years trying to get everything just right for your family. Now you need an easy way to make sure your important financial documents are as organized as the rest of your house.
Well, good news. Knockbox, that's N-O-K box, as in next of kin box, is a complete system that helps you be sure that you leave happy memories,

not a mess, when you pass away.

Knockbox is a simple way to organize important paper and digital documents,

IDs, tax returns, insurance policies, estate plans, accounts,

and other personal history in one manageable place.

Your family will feel your love in every detail you take care of. So start taking care of them at knockbox.com slash Ramsey.
A well-organized legacy is a gift to your family. That's nokbox.com slash Ramsey.
Welcome back. Going to the phones, we have Sarah in Riverside, California.
Yeah. Hi, Sarah.
Welcome to the show. Hi, thank you for having me.
Absolutely. How can we help? So I have some guilt and pride around using child support money.
So I was in an evasive relationship. And by the grace of God, I was able to leave when my son was about three

weeks old. I met my now husband when my son was six months old and he's now 12.
My husband and I had sat and talked and said, we don't want any money. We don't want anything.
We want nothing to do with him. Well, the judge made the decision that it's not our choice and it's not our money.
it's for our sons.

So we

were just putting all that money in an account. We had some debt.
And in 2021, I lost my job and we needed four walls. So we dipped into that account.
And as of January of 2025, we are officially done with Baby Step 2. We are completely debt-free.
Oh, congratulations. Thank you.
It's very exciting. I'm really happy to be there.
But I have about $4,000 from that child support money that we said we'd never use. And I'm wondering if I should just pay it back like a debt and just keep going like if we were on baby step two

or the connotation of the child support money

in the first place just kills me.

And I don't know what to do about it.

So this guilt, Sarah,

I'm just double checking that the facts are correct.

You didn't use this money immorally.

It was more of a conviction that you personally had with it because of who it came from. And you just, the thought of using it just feels gross and you had to use it at one point.
But from a legal standpoint, you use it exactly how anyone else would use it, right? To help run the household because you're taking care of a child and that other parent is helping with that, correct? Exactly. Yeah.
And what was the court order? How much and for how long? It was, originally it was until he was 18 and it was supposed to be $430. The only money that I've actually seen from that is the COVID money.
I was able to get his COVID check. I didn't know that it was coming.
My husband adopted our son when he was four years old. Everything finalized.
So that's when the child support stopped. But there's so much arrears that, I mean, I will still randomly get like a $12 check.
Okay, so it's over essentially. You're not getting future payments.
You just have this kind of savings sitting here and you feel like, I don't want to touch this money because it feels weird. Yeah, how much is in that account? In the account right now is $2,000 and I used four of it.
Four of it. And what are you going to do with it eventually? Are you going to give it to him when he's 18? Or help pay for a car when he's 16?

Or college?

Or what do you think?

That's what we were thinking.

Just a car or something like that.

Like I said, my husband's been around since my son was six months old.

So my son doesn't know.

He doesn't know any different as of right now.

And eventually we're going to tell him.

I mean, we have to tell him.

But we're just not there yet. He's not emotionally mature enough to be there yet.
Sure. Okay.
So what I'll speak to, I'll speak to the money side of it, Sarah, from the sense that, no, this is not a debt that you need to pay. I mean, you're, you use the money essentially how the system works and, you know, you use it exactly appropriately.
And I know that doesn't sit well with you because of who it's coming from. And that totally makes sense to me.
But I think kind of the quote unquote debt going forward, which is not a debt, but is to say, okay, how can we best set up my son to have a life where he, from a financial standpoint, understands money, doesn't have to walk through this debt-free journey and we're setting him up in order to do that and that looks like things like maybe college or um helping with his first car you know whatever that may look like for you guys and for me um I wouldn't I wouldn't I wouldn't hold on to that emotional four thousand dollars anymore because um I I think you I think you need to release that I think going forward, the motivation now is to pass a great legacy onto your son, regardless of $4,000 or not. So I totally understand how that can feel like, oh my gosh, we use this money and it feels so gross and I hate it because he's a terrible person.
But you guys were in a pinch at the time and that's what that money's is to help take care of your son, and that's what you guys did. So I would let go of that because emotionally I think it is holding on to you so deeply.
Yeah. So in the filing cabinet of your brain, we need to refile this.
Instead of child support money from an abusive, awful relationship, this is changing my family tree money to set up my child for a better life than the one I experienced. Yeah.
And Sarah too, you know, give yourself a little bit of grace. You know, if this was a $60,000, you know, thing or something and you're like, oh my gosh, you were supposed to use it for a down payment on a house or, you know what I mean? Like a mag, like, I feel like, like, like a lot of this magnitude and weight from a dollar standpoint, I feel like we could go at it a different way.
Cause I could see, you know, the more money it is, the more weight it feels, right? So, so with this 4,000, yeah, I want you, I want you to release it for you, Sarah. Again, it's not about the dollars at that point.
To me, it's, it's that emotional attachment that's still there to him. And I, I want that, I want that release from you, you know? So whatever that looks like.
Yeah, I would have a goal for this money instead of letting it just sit there. It's only going to make, you know, reopen the wound.
So I would put it in a 529 plan for college. I would put it toward in a savings account for a car fund one day because that day is going to come and these things cost money and it's part of the deal.
It's a shared burden because that person was a parent and this is what the court ordered. And so I would, it's hard to just say, release the guilt, Sarah, you're doing great.
But that's the truth of it. It's that hard and it's that simple to just go, all right, it happened.
That was the past. And I'm going to make a better future for my kid now.
And it sounds like you guys are thriving and this child is so lucky to have you too. Yeah, we're, he's definitely blessed.
My husband is literally a godsend, and he took him on like his own, and like I said, nobody knows. There's a couple people like family knows, but he doesn't know, and my husband stepped up in more ways than I could ever even pray for.
Well, and give yourself too so much credit, Sarah, because we talked to so many people on this show and women specifically that are in a situation and they don't feel like there's a way out. And whether from its financial type abuse where a husband's withholding and not allowing controlling, yes, to physical, emotional, I mean, you can fill in the gaps.
The spectrum is wide. And to break that cycle is so, so difficult.
And as Dr. John Deloney says,

who we're- to physical, emotional. I mean, you know, you can fill in the gaps.
The spectrum is wide. And to break that cycle is so, so difficult.
And as Dr. John Deloney says, who works with, you know, so many people in this area, says that it's rare to have someone actually break it.
So when you do, it is a- Something to be celebrated. It's an applause.
I mean, it really is, Sarah. So, I mean, I just commend you for that.
I know that was 12 years ago, but that is's incredible absolutely incredible yeah George when we you know think about part of the baby steps and what she said I loved because yeah it's baby step you know they're they're past baby step two they're moving on for that fully funded emergency fund and so forth and there there is something so freeing from the sense of yes the dollars and cents are there right we're being wise with our actual tactical money that's you know very important but it's so much bigger than that it is like the place where money sits in our lives the value of which we give it and when you are out of debt you have that emergency fund it's you don't have to be obsessed with it you don't have to stress about it because you're setting yourself up so well and what that speaks to your kids in a household is everything. Like to me, that's part of changing the family tree.
It's not just from a monetary standpoint, but from an emotional standpoint that money doesn't have to be a stress point in our lives because we have control over it. Yeah.
And there's a lot of belief there. People think there's some sort of like financial DNA that you're born with because of the environment and place and parents.
But we're proving it with Sarah that you can break chains. You might be the first one in your family to become debt free, to create a better life for your kid, for your kid to go to college debt free, for you to have a home that you own free and clear, for you to become a millionaire.
And it's something you get to choose. And it's a daily choice.
And it's one of the hardest patterns to break because of all the shame and guilt from the past. And your belief system is so tied up.
And you talk about this and know yourself, know your money, the different money classrooms you grew up in, it really shapes you and you have to really try to break all of the bad stuff to get to the good stuff. Totally.
Yeah. Yeah.
And as parents, you know, whatever you can do, you know, we always say more is caught than taught, but from again, that standpoint of money, we're going to get in control of our money because yes, from a monetary standpoint, we need to know where our money's going. We want to be debt free.
We want to start investing and letting the math work for us, like all of that. But more importantly, realizing that money's a tool.
It is a tool to create a life that you love. Like that's what it is.
It is not good. It is not bad.
It doesn't have morals. And so how can that lesson and where money is placed in your life and in your heart and your identity, what your kids see, that speaks louder than words.
This is The Ramsey Show. You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies and there's too little life insurance or none at all.
Grieving families are suddenly left behind scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet. I also discovered that there are a lot of ripoffs in the life insurance world like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity.
What you need is level term life insurance, usually 10 to 12 times your income, which is the smartest, most affordable way to protect your family. The key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for you, not for the insurance company.
This is exactly what my friend Jeff Zander and his team at Zander Insurance are all about. They shop the

term life companies to find you the best options, and they've been around for over 95 years, so you know they'll be there when you need them. Zander is the real deal, and that's why they've handled all my personal insurance for over 25 years.
I trust them, and you can too. Visit Zander.com for instant online quotes or for a more personal touch.
Give them a call at 800-356-4282. Investing can be one of the areas of money that can be very overwhelming and confusing and it's not something that you're going to just know everything about that world in a 60 second Instagram reel.
And so if you really want to dive in to understand how to do this part of your money well, how to invest well, and how to make sure that you don't make any mistakes when it comes to this, because that can be very costly, make sure to check out our Investing Essentials virtual event. And it's going to teach you everything you need to know on how to get started with investing and how to maximize your investments.
So it's happening March 4th and 5th. Tickets start at $199.
And it's hosted by Dave Ramsey and George Camel. Don't call it a comeback.
And you guys have done this event before. And it sold so well.
And people loved it. Because you guys are really diving into the tactical side of investing and like, hey, what does this really look like? And it's everything from stocks and mutual funds to retirement to real estate and all the areas of it.
Even beyond the baby steps. You know, we can only cover so much on this show and we kind of go surface level.
But in this event, it is, you know, two and a half hours each night taking your questions, deep diving on this, and Dave unpacking his actual real estate portfolio, how he analyzes investments. And so it's something he's never talked about on the show here.
And people loved it last year. So we're bringing it back.
Can't call it a comeback, but it is. I kind of like a comeback.
So get your tickets today at RamseySolutions.com slash events, or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. All right, let's go to the phones and we have Zach in Albany, New York.
Hi, Zach. Welcome to the show.
Hey, guys. How are you? Thanks for having me on the show.
Absolutely. How can we help? So my wife and I are having a debate.
we're four, five, and six, and we're having a debate as to whether pay our house off or to buy a new vehicle. All right.
So tell me about the car. What car do you want to replace? Uh, we want to replace her car.
Um, it's a smaller SUV, uh, and it gets a little crammed with the baby seat in there and we may be expecting a second one. So she would like to upgrade in vehicle so we're not crammed into her car.
Okay, so it's more of a more of a convenience upgrade, if you will, not that the car is falling apart and we have to replace it. So not urgent, but more just out of like, yeah, the convenience of life.
Stupid question. Could you get like a slimmer baby seat and solve all of this? I don't know if they make those, but I guess I could look.
Oh, they do. I've done my baby seat research, my friend.
But anyways, let's talk more about this. What is that car going to cost this she wants? She's looking at a GMC Yukon.
We would would buy used not new um how big is your baby man what's that how big is your baby that you need a yukon well we already have one and we would like that you know we may have maybe having a second one soon so just just comfort you know okay yeah It would be in the price range of like 50,000. 50,000? Yeah.
50 to 60,000. Um, we are on baby steps four or five and six.
We are baby steps millionaires. How much do you guys make a year? Uh, we make, we made two 90 this year and we're on track to make about $315 this year.

Incredible.

Good for you guys.

Good for you guys.

What's left on the mortgage?

The mortgage is $186, and we would be paying cash from a brokerage account that's non-retirement

that we've been saving up for land, but we put a kibosh on that idea since we may be having a second baby now.

Okay.

How much is in there?

Priorities have shifted.

Yeah, how much is in the brokerage account?

About $80,000.

Okay.

So either way, we're not going to pay off the house with this lump sum.

But you're saying, should we take that $80,000 and put it toward the mortgage or toward the car?

Correct.

So my thought was, I'm more of the saver. My wife's a little bit more of the spender.
My thought was if we took the entire brokerage account, put it on the house, we could pay it off in about a year and a half and then take the mortgage payment and everything else and save up for a car. Okay.
Yes. I mean, so yeah, either way, Zach, let me say this.
Routes A routes a or b would work okay so i always like to find i don't know road c like is there like a third option in there that feels that feels good to both of you meaning you're running the numbers in the math you're seeing oh my gosh if we put 80 grand towards this house you know you're putting towards the principal like you're not gonna like you're seeing the math like really you know it's on your side majorly in that way Zach so that totally makes sense um so I'm I'm just wondering if you know you guys don't have a second kid and I think what you both need to say because you haven't really said it on this client I think I just need to hear it from you that you guys do not need this car that people function with two babies and Camrys all the time. And is it squished? Absolutely.
But, like, you guys would be okay. Can we just, can we say that out loud? I 100% agree.
I, uh, I'm trying to be a good husband and do right by my wife because I am the money nerd. Making the...
And I know this is something she wants. I hear you.
I hear you. We're hard for our money.
Totally. No, no, I hear you.
And the car is not bad. Getting a Yukon is not bad, Zach, at all.
But I want to make sure, because this is where lifestyle creep a little bit starts to play in. And I think if you both said, yes, we do not need this.
We would be fine. We could have two babies in the car that we have now.
It's a suv we would be fine but i would love a i would

love a great suv like that's what i would love i would love it rachel said what i said just in a

nicer way no and america loves her i want her i want her and i want you guys to be on the same

page of why you're buying it because i don't want her to be like no no it's like i have to have this

like i can't it's it is just too everything is just too small and i can't do it because if that

starts to be the mindset what's going to end up happening again it's lifestyle creep your life

Thank you. I have to have this.
Like I can't, it's, it is just too, everything is just too small and I can't do it. Because if that starts to be the mindset, what's going to end up happening again, it's lifestyle creep.
Your life just starts, you spend more and more and more and more. And what we need versus what we want starts to really blur.
So I think I would feel better if I knew Zach, that both of you were like, yes, we do not need this car. We would like this car.
Listen, Zach, I have a minivan. I would love a Yukon.
Like, I get it. I would want one.
I don't need one, but I would want one. Second caveat, she's not pregnant? Well, she is.
We just haven't told anyone yet. Oh, we're the first.
Oh, my gosh. Such an honor.
Okay, that changes this. Uncle George and Aunt Ray Ray, we are the first to know the news.
Because it was kind of like, well, we might have one. Like, okay, well, might is different than she is pregnant.
And so there is an actual timeline now of, all right, nine months from now, we would want a bigger car. So here's my, and this is coming from Mr.
Frugality, who was like, I'm going to pay off the house before I upgrade my car. Now, we didn't have a kid then, so it's different i'm i'm going hey let's cash out the brokerage we're gonna pay some taxes on it let's buy her it's set a budget fifty thousand dollars we're gonna get her a yukon whatever's left we're gonna throw at the house and then we're going to be gung-ho getting rid of this mortgage was that would that be a fair game plan because either way yeah that's a great that's a great option yeah with your is paid off within a year or two, right? Yeah, you guys are going to be fine, especially because of your income, right? If you guys were making $100,000, I would slow all of this way down.
And so you're buying too much car. But you guys make $300,000.
Okay, I want my question answered, Zach. Do you think your wife, does she emotionally say, yes, this is a complete want.
It's not like a need, like we absolutely have to have it. She acknowledges that it is a complete want.
Um, and like we're, we're both, um, I mean, I'm more of the saver, but we're both pretty frugal. And so when she wants something, it's really not too often.
And so I'm just trying to make that happen for her. Totally.
No, I hear you. Yes.
You're,

you're a great husband, Zach. So yeah, I would move forward.
I would buy it. And again, especially that since you guys for sure are having to, um, and from an income standpoint, what you guys have left on the mortgage and all of it, I think, yeah, I think you guys will be in a great, a great position.
And you guys are baby steps millionaires. So I'm just curious, are you going to buy new or slightly used? No, he said, he said used.
He said used. It would be certified.

Certified Brionne.

Lower mileage.

Good move.

Good move.

Good move. millionaire so i'm just curious are you gonna buy new or no he said he said used he said used uh it would it would be certified certified lower mileage good move good move good man let someone else take that first hit on depreciation yeah you guys are doing it by the book i'm proud of you guys there's no wrong answer here but i would defer to the pregnant woman because i'm scared of them me too you don't want to mess with them man i'm just saying it's it's a it's a sensitive yeah sensitive line there huh and this is a very similar situation because my wife wanted the bougie mom suv and it hurt my soul because i can do math but in life isn't math she wanted the car we saved up we paid cash for it and she loves it and it's fine and it was her dream i I don't need to make everything my dream.
I will say, babies can make everything very emotional, though. So I'm glad that Zach's sticking to the facts and the numbers, and the numbers look great.
So present permission to spin, Zach. A Yukon can hold two seven-pound babies, at least, bare minimum.
Bare minimum. And congrats, Zach.
We are excited for you. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 different answers.
Economic growth or a recession. Business taxes will go up or down.
AI will help us work or it will replace us all. But there's no such thing as a crystal ball.
That's why more than 40,000 businesses have future-proofed themselves with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one cloud enterprise resource planning system. Ramsey Solutions uses NetSuite, and you should too.
Whether your company's earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities. With one unified business management suite, there's only one source of truth for the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions.
NetSuite's real-time insights and forecasting help you see into the future with actionable data. data.
And when you're closing the books in days, not weeks, you can spend less time looking backward and more time

focusing on what's next. And speaking of what's next, download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine

Learning at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. It's free at netsuite.com slash Ramsey.

Today's question of the day is brought to you by Y-Refi. If you are struggling with defaulted

private student loans, Y-Refi offers a great solution to get you back on track. For a low

fixed rate and more flexibility, go to Y-Refi.com slash Ramsey today. That is the letter Y, R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey.
May not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Alexis in Tennessee.
We recently received credit cards in the mail for my son and daughter who are both under the age of 12. When I showed them to my husband, he responded that he had taken them out in our children's names to help them establish a credit score before they became adults.
We have followed your principles for years, so I was shocked that he did this without talking to me about it. How should I handle this situation? This feels like there's a tinge of financial infidelity here.
Behind her back opened up credit cards and the kids names yes and and not and not mention it and the way that you're when you said you know we've followed the principles from year for years if i'm assuming that means you guys are on the same page you're talking about money i mean there's some couples that you know they don't know what the other one's doing but if you are following a level of ramsey and that means you are you know connected and you're talking about money so the fact that he didn't bring it up that feels that feels very off to me very off yeah and the fact he opened up credit cards in your kids names well I'm guessing he it's in his name they got cards with their names on it as authorized users yeah because if you take out a yeah a line of credit for a child right I mean you you it's a trend because of these tiktok videos where they go hey parents here's a life hack for you add your kids as authorized users and they can take your credit score when they're 18 and have great credit so they can go get some more debt yep well when what we've heard too is people calling the show saying yeah my parents took out debt in my name to build up a good credit score and then they ended up destroyed the credit because they couldn't handle it. And so you're just like, Oh, it's yeah.
And it gets to be a fine line too of identity theft. I'm like, if you're, you know what I mean? Like it's kind of to a point of like, there was no consent here.
I mean, yeah. So it's, I, I don't like it.
I don't like playing the game. And so, yeah, but a lot of, it is a tick tock trend.
Yeah. There's a, we have an article here related to this.
Parents are gaming their kids credit scores, and it's around the same idea of stories of people who had their parents add them as authorized users. There's some horror stories in there.
There's some explanation, but it says many are taking advantage of these tools. A 2019 poll commissioned by creditcards.com, that's perfect.
8% of roughly 1,500 American parents surveyed said that at least one of their minor children had a credit card, presumably through authorized usership, because kids under 18 can't get their own card. And TransUnion data showed that nearly 700,000 22 to 24-year-olds had authorized user accounts.
Oh, dang, yeah. So, and here's the thing.
I don't think these are terrible people. They're just well-meaning parents who have fallen for the system who go, well, this is the path.
They got to have the credit score because otherwise, how are they going to rent an apartment and how are they going to travel? And they can't book airlines with that. And I'm going, have you ever tried a different route? You don't need to do all this gyration to live your financial life.
Yes. There's so much more freedom, you guys, when you're chasing the credit score.
You can live life without a credit score. You can do everything you just said without a credit score.
It is possible. You can even get a house through manual underwriting without a credit score.
And so, yeah, I think like you said, it's good intentions them going in saying I'm gonna try to set my kids up, but you're falling right into the system that gets so many people, millions of people stuck and in that wheel of debt. And it's like, it's not worth it.
It's not worth playing the game. And then let alone having any level of risk for another human being of their financial well-being, that if you screw this up, it doesn't just hurt you.
It's hurting your kids then at that point. I mean, so it's just, it's a mess.
It is absolutely bonkers. And I cover this in my book, Breaking Free from Broke.
I have a whole chapter on credit scores, a whole chapter on credit cards, and I unpack how to live life outside of the system. And it's not as complicated or as difficult as people would have you believe.
Yes. In fact, it's way more peaceful.
It's way more simple. I don't have 16 cards to manage to try to get the rotating cashback rewards.
I have a debit card and I use it and it has my money on it. And when that money's it is gone you know it's funny George I feel like when things are less uh complicated they feel less sophisticated right everyone's like oh but that's so boring the smartest way yeah yeah there's got to be so many other hoops to jump through and you can live your life that way financially you can but you're going to be exhausted you're going to be exhausted again with a system that is set up to screw you.
Like, that's what it is. It's not there to free you and for you to be financially free.
They want you in the system because they make so much money off of you. But when you exit out of the system and you're like, you know what? I'm going to live with a debit card, with cash, we're going to save up and pay for things.
And we're not going to sit here and try to play the industry's games over and over and over and over and over and over. What is sophisticated is peace.
It is. I'm like, there's just that level there that is, it is so much worth it than the mental dance and gymnastics that you have to play.
So here's a, here's a wild concept. What if as a parent, you taught your kids how to manage money instead of managing debt? That's all the credit score is, is how well you've managed debt.
It doesn't reflect how much money you have in the bank. It doesn't reflect your income.
It just reflects your relationship with the lender. And so that's how I'm aiming with my kid.
I'm going, they're going to look at people with credit scores and credit cards going, why are they doing all that work, dad? And I'm like, I don't know. America, it's crazy.
Lost our minds. It's crazy out there.
Oh man. Yeah.
Parents don't take credit cards out and don't be an authorized user. And don't say you follow our principles for years while you still clearly have credit cards.
You don't get to pick and choose. This isn't a buffet.
This isn't a buffet. Get out of here.
Get out of here. All right, let's go to Shane in St.
Paul. Hi, Shane.
Welcome to the show. Thanks, Rachel, for taking my call.
How are you today? We are doing great. Glad you called in.
How can we

help? Thank you. Well, I'm a relatively new listener.
We're on baby step number two. And my question is, we have probably about $17,500 in credit card debt and a couple of the small loans and we had have some money set aside.
And I was wondering, is there any way that you can deviate from that snowball plan? Tell me. Yeah.
Why would you want to? What are the numbers you're seeing, Shang? It usually comes down to numbers. Okay.
Basically the biggest one we have is we have a credit card with a high interest rate that has a balance of about 10 000 okay how much what's the interest rate on that uh it's like 18.5 i think okay and then we have another credit card with the balance of 7,500 and that interest rate is 9.9%.

Mm-hmm. Okay.
And then we have another credit card with a balance of $7,500.

And that interest rate is 9.9%. And then we have kind of like a small home improvement loan with a balance of like $350 that you have to pay off.
and then I have a work loan

that I got through my work

with zero percent interest

and I have a balance of like $800 on that.

Okay.

And how much do you guys have saved?

Well, we just got our taxes back

and so we have about $14,500.

Amazing.

Oh my gosh.

So the math doesn't matter that much because you've just knocked out all the debts but the last credit card yeah in this scenario right so my I guess my question is um you know what would it make sense to pay off that the highest one the ten thousand dollars first and then pay the two small loans and then whatever's left pay on that last credit card uh no i mean listen if you're doing the math i understand what you're saying because of the interest rate and what we always talk about on this show shane and what you're going to start to realize is that personal finance and winning with money is so much more about your behavior than it is about math. And so if we were all, you know, chasing math, we wouldn't be in debt in the first place, right? So it's not a math problem.
It really is us winning. And so the fact that you do have a bulk of money, which is absolutely amazing, what that does to me, that just that jump starts.
I mean, tonight, you could have that $800 paid off, that $350. I mean, those are just like ankle biters, right? You're just like, you just need to get in there and just get them done with.
And then to pay off a $7,500 credit card in full and it be completely done, like... And knock the next debt down to probably around six grand or four grand.
Yeah, that's right. That's right, the extra.
You'd have almost $6,000 to throw at the $10,000 debt. So you'd be down to about $4,000 left.
So the 18% interest, the way you're going to attack this thing, it's not going to amount to much. Because you're not going to be in debt, Shane, that much longer.
I mean, when you're looking from a math standpoint, you guys can take on extra jobs and get that paid off in two months. You throw $1,000 a month at this thing, it's gone in four months.
Yeah. So it's going to be so quick that the math at that point doesn't matter.
But I'm excited for you. You said you're a new caller, so I'm so glad that you're joining in.
And using that refund for good instead of a vacation because you deserved it. Well done, Shane.
Well done. Well, thanks to all the men and women in the booth making this show happen.
George, thank you. Thanks to our great audience here in Nashville, Tennessee and thank you, America.
This is The Ramsey Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.
Alright, you've heard me say it a thousand times and I'm going to keep saying it. You're worth being well.
And listen, therapy can help. I see a therapist and let's be honest, a lot of you should too.
But let's be real, taking that first step to see a therapist can feel overwhelming. Maybe it's the time, maybe you have some preconceived notions about therapy, maybe it's the cost.
But we spend money on gym memberships, organic groceries, essential oils, little league practices, tracker watches, but for some reason when it comes to our mental and emotional well-being, we hesitate. Listen, your mental and emotional health are just as important as your physical health.
And the good news, BetterHelp makes therapy more affordable and convenient than ever. Since it's online, you can talk with your therapist when it works for your schedule.
No waiting rooms, no long commutes, and no six-month waiting lists. Just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist, and if it's not the right fit, you can switch at any time for no extra cost.
Listen, your well-being is worth it. Visit betterhelp.com slash Deloney to get started.
That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Deloney. Live from Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships.
I am Rachel Cruz, hosting this hour with bestselling author and my co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour, George Hamill. And so give us a call at 888-825-5225, and we're answering your questions on life, money, relationships.
The pursuit of happiness. Anything and everything.
So give us a call. To kick us off this hour, we have Jeff in Oklahoma City.
Hi Jeff, welcome to the show. Hello, how are you today? We are doing great.
How can we help? Well, my question is, we are looking to take what I would consider an extravagant vacation this summer. Ooh, my favorite thing in the world, Jeff.
That is so exciting. Call the right person.
She's going to say yes. Well, then let's just get the yes and move on.
Basically kind of looking for confirmation that it's something that would be okay to do.

So here's, I'll tell you a little bit of the history and then we'll get into the numbers.

My wife and I were early to mid-40s. We've got three kids at home.
One of them graduates next

year and we'll have to report to school sometime summer of next year for sports. So this is kind of the last year to be able to take a family vacation and have that oldest one go with us.
All in, we're looking at like $9,200. It is seven days.
Two days is travel. Okay? Oceanfront, all-inclusive resort, and going to the Caribbean.
And about $4,000 of that $92 is light. Oh, yeah, it's so expensive.
Getting out of the Midwest is horrible. Yeah, it's terrible.
And that includes, you know, vehicle rental when we get there, excursions, you know, going out to eat a little bit, even though it is all inclusive, you know, trying some of the local food. You've done your due diligence, Jeff.
You've traveled planned like no one else. You have detailed it out.
Okay, so where are you guys financially? Do you guys have debt? Do you have savings? So this, I'll run through all the numbers here.

Household income gross is $335 to $370, depending on bonuses, which, you know, happens every year. So probably closer to that $370 number.
The only debt that we have is our house. We owe $23 on it.
Purchased it in 2021, 3% fixed. Bought it for $370 valuation of $620.
How much in savings? IRA, we've got $396. They're just your normal cash savings, like emergency fund plus whatever else.
So the emergency fund, we've got $53,600, which a six-month emergency is $24,500. All right, Jeff.
And another savings account. If this was the voice, I'd hit the buzzer, I'd spin my chair and select you.
I want you to upgrade your room and spend a little bit more. I'm a little miffed you're only spending nine grand grand.
I know. Go upgrade you and your wife to first class.
Spend a little more, Jeff. I'm not kidding.
You are a hundred percent okay. And if anything, yeah, you got some wiggle room, Jeff.
I mean, yeah, okay. That was fun.
And your IRA, $396,000 is what you said. What do you guys have in your 401k?

So in the knee trade account, we've got 27.5.

401k is horrible, but we're now putting 15% in,

so it'll be caught up very quickly.

246 between the both of us.

And then outside of the emergency fund, the 53.6,

just in another savings account, we've got 53,000. And then, you know, around $15,000 in the bank account.
I've lost track of how much money you guys have. You have that much.
You're doing great. Is your wife the same way as you? Yeah, yeah.
Does she have fun? Do y'all have fun? We've got three kids, so. Yeah.
You know, so we're always chasing them. Sure.
I'm glad I'm messing with you, Jeff. I'm messing with you.
Yes. We don't, uh, we don't live, uh, extravagant or anything.
Vehicles are paid off. They are, you know, a few years older, but you know, there's no sense in buying a new vehicle when you can get one a few years older.
That's low miles for half the cost. So.
Jeff, you're a, you're a jewel of a human being. You're my spirit animal, Jeff.
I appreciate you. George wants to be you when he grows up, is basically...
Can't wait. That is...
A good seven years from now, this is what I have to look forward to. My wife convincing me.
I'd much rather have more than 246 in the 401k. Jeff, I think you will be totally fine.
And I'm really excited for you, Jeff. I've talked about this a lot on the show because I think it was like one of these moments that I heard this and I thought, that is so good.
Arthur Brooks talks about there's five things you can do with money. Four will actually buy you happiness.
Like your brain scientifically has a level of happiness in it. One thing you can do with money that has no happiness.
The first one is to give. Be generous.
You actually can buy some happiness doing that. A saving actually creates a level of happiness because there's progress being made.
And in our psychology, it's good for us to see progress. There's one about buying your time back.
So someone mow the lawn right and you use that time to go we do that yeah hang with a friend and then the fourth one jeff you ready the fourth thing the fourth way to literally buy happiness is to buy experiences with the people you love so that can be a great dinner out that can be a vacation so i'm saying oh and then the fifth thing that does not buy happiness is buying stuff you get a temporary hit and then no long-term happiness through that so you are doing this very wisely and this is something that you we always say you want to give you want to save you want to spend and this is your spend and I want you to spend it in this way because i think it's going to be such a fun week for you and your family and yes you have our full permission and you have my permission to upgrade you and your wife to first class so just just take that take that little rachel said we could and then when you get back from the trip everyone gets a thousand dollar shopping spree there we go stop no because then you're buying stuff, george he's not going to get happiness doing that i'm just saying i feel like the kids would really like you for that yeah no it's it's great the the kids i i will say the kids do not want for anything but they also have got reasonable expectations as well because we've tried to, you know, raise them to not want what everybody else has. So good.
You've raised some great kids. I'm just surprised they want to go on vacation with you guys at this stage of their life.
That's the best part. They raise kids who like you.
Yeah. Well, you know, the oldest one, the 17-year-old, you know, it depends on the day.
But the other two, you know, they're under 12. So mom and dad are still pretty awesome.
Jeff, this is going to be, this is going to be so fun. And you know, I'm kind of, I'm kind of messing with you, but honestly, one of the most powerful financial principles is contentment.
And Jeff, you just sound like such a content guy. Like your priorities are so in line.
And when you live like no one else, we always say you get to live and give like no one else. And Jeff, they're going to be living like no one else in the Caribbean.
That's right. Paid for vacation, making great money.
And I mean, and just doing it. It's awesome.
And Jeff will be tracking it in his Excel spreadsheet. Jeff will be.
He's the dad who had the MapQuest printed out, ready to go for the trip. Like, this is the dad I aspire to be.

100%. I love it.

Jeff's going to know.

And they make such a great income.

I am not worried for a second about their retirement.

No, no.

And it's $9,000, right?

It's not $29,000 or something.

We're not talking about that.

Based on what he said, they're already Baby Steps millionaires.

They're very close to it in their early 40s.

Jeff, I really am.

I'm so excited for you and your family. Enjoy that Caribbean vacation.
It's going to be so fun. Send us a picture when you come back.
There's a time in your life and at the baby steps for renting, but you don't want to do it forever because when you rent, you're still paying for a mortgage, just somebody else's. Plus, rent means instability in your budget because it always goes up, never down.
So when you're ready to buy, make sure you work with a mortgage partner you can rely on. Churchill Mortgage.
Churchill is Ramsey trusted to help you make the move from renting to home ownership wisely. Churchill understands that when you buy a home the Ramsey way, your mortgage payment will be a consistent, manageable part of your monthly budget.
Plus, when your home is paid off, that was your largest expense. Now it's extra money in your pocket and an asset towards turning you into a Baby Steps millionaire.
So get started on the American dream of home ownership today at churchillmortgage.com. That's churchillmortgage.com.
This is a paid advertisement. NMLS ID 1591.
NMLS consumeraccess.org. Equal housing lender.
1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100. Brentwood, Tennessee 37027.
Listen, I know a lot of you would rather watch paint dry in slow motion than file your taxes. But thankfully, you don't have to dread filing when you've got Ramsey Smart Tax.
It comes packed with everything

you need to file online before the big deadline. That means all major federal forms and deductions

are covered with no hidden fees. Plus, with Ramsey Smart Tax, you can save up to 70% compared to other

tax software out there. It's a no-brainer.
Just go to ramseysolutions.com slash smart tax and see

how simple tax filing can be. That's RamseySolutions.com slash SmartTax.
Well, if you are a business owner or you know someone who is, you know that running a business is hard. It's a lot of work.
A lot of energy goes into that. And as you look back at the challenges that you face when it comes to

building a business the right way, Dave Ramsey really kind of took a moment and said, yeah, I've been through this journey and I want to put some of these principles and what I've learned about building a business into a book. And so he has a new book out called Build a Business you love.
You can pre-order it now for $29.99

and get over $350 of free bonus items.

Thank you.

My gosh, which is early access to the e-book,

an enhanced audio book,

and instant access to the Entree Leadership Hiring Playbook.

So you can order today at ramsysolutions.com slash store.

Or if you're watching on YouTube or listening on podcasts podcasts we'll put the link down in the description. All right let's go to Claire in San Diego.
Hi Claire welcome to the show. Hi guys thank you for having me on.
Absolutely how can we help? So my question is surrounding dating and finances. I'm kind of looking for advice you have on dating debt and things to think about for the future.
I have a boyfriend who's a little older than me. He has a really stable job.
He lives down here in San Diego, and we've been talking about moving forward in our relationship. Everything's really good.
All our values align, our faith aligns. There's really good companionship, but it's come out that he has about 70K in debt.
And just the background that I come from, I'm not sure how comfortable I am committing to taking on that debt with some of the habits I've seen. He wants to be in a better place with his finances, but he does like to shop and go out and do a lot of things and he's put about four years to be able to pay off that debt but I feel like it could maybe be a little sooner I'm not sure if I have the full picture so I'm wondering what kind of questions would be good to bring into a conversation what things to look for what actions need to be taken or yeah any advice you guys have advice you guys have.
All right. Yeah, it's a great question.
Do you, this $70,000, was it, do you feel like he hid that in any way and has just come out recently? Or was it a sense that you guys just kind of started talking about the subject and he just happened to say, oh, yeah, I'm, yeah, yeah, I'm dead, $70,000 worth. Like, was it more just.
Was it more secretive or was it, no, we just ended up talking about the subject and then he told me? No, it was more talking about the subject. He had told me earlier in our dating relationship and just the timing of it, I didn't pry for numbers or anything.
So now that we've been talking a little more seriously I'm trying

for numbers and it's around 50k of student loans and then about 20 to 30 in car payment okay okay

um so yeah I mean I always you know I always think when it comes to relationships and debt

it's not always the debt that scares me I mean if you guys ended up going long term

yeah you would be helping pay the 70 grand off for sure if you guys got married

I'm going to get Claire from you because knowing that opposites attract and that is so normal. OK, so Winston would probably describe me the way you describe town that she likes to shop and she likes to spend money.
And Winston would save till the day is long. And that's all we know.
And so there's going to be savers. There's going to be spenders.
There's going to be that the person in the relationship that loves knowing every single number of everything. And they have Excel sheets and they have the every dollar app.
And I mean, they're doing everything possible where the other one's like, oh, yeah, we're on track. We're good.
I don't need to know every single little detail. You know, that's the free spirit.
So there is going to be a give and take and a personality tendency with money. So I'm trying to get a check from you.
Is it just a different tendency and he just spends because he probably is more of a spender? Or do you feel like, no, it's bigger than that? Like there's a problem. There's an issue here.
And that's what I'm trying to gauge from you. What do you think? I think that's what I'm trying to figure out.
I come from a family that's all favors, so I feel like I haven't really experienced the opposite of that. I feel like it's a little bit sometimes like, oh, that little instant gratification of I just got this little knickknack, but then sometimes it's experiences.
He takes, I mean, dating, he's taken me out to do some really fun things as well. So he has value on both of those things.
And I'm just trying to figure out from him in a way that helps me. Yeah, totally.
Helping for a dating relationship, what that habit is. Yeah, for sure.
So I think some questions I would ask is, is that value standpoint that you don't want to be having someone that's going into debt to do these things, right? That you want the baselines covered. And that's, you know, a level of wisdom and, you know, being out of debt, having an emergency fund, having savings, like all of that, that is wisdom.
And we want all of those first and foremost. And then if there's some extra that, yeah, we can spend on top of that, but making sure with him like, hey, is living with debt in that lifestyle, you know, what does that look like for you? What's that value system? And if he really is like, oh, yeah, I don't want to, you know, I want to be able to get out and I don't want to live with credit cards and debt and all of that, then that's a that's a checkpoint, right? It's like, OK, that's good.
And then you can even ask him because all spenders, I think, understanding our motivation, or I would say savers too, understanding the motivation of why you do things gets to the heart of it. And so the motivation in that, and for spenders, you know, sometimes the motivation is fine.
And it's like, yeah, it's just kind of a thing I wanted. I saved up, I have the cash for it.
I'm not under some illusion that this purchase is somehow going to make me happy for the rest of my life. You know, I'm not bought into this illusion of marketing and all of that.
Like I just wanted the thing and it's great. But then sometimes Claire, you know, as a spender, and I can speak for myself, I ask my question a lot of, okay, Rachel, why are you buying this? And if I can be as honest as possible, it's like, I'm kind of bored and I want some excitement and that's why I'm doing it.
Or I always ask myself, if nobody sees this purchase, do I still want it? How much of my motivation of having and buying something is for other people and not even myself, right? So getting to more of the heart of the why behind it, I think may help you see either, oh yeah, that gives me some peace. If he can have some level of awareness of why, because the way we spend our money always is going to tell a story about ourselves, right? So understanding that, or maybe Claire, you find out some things and you're like, that feels like a slippery slope, right? So I think through some of those conversations will be interesting, but I will say for you, it's going to be a little bit difficult.
So give him some grace because you are coming from, like you said, you're a saver, you were raised by savers, and you're like, I don't even know what this alien, which is a spender looks like. Like, how do they function? And are they okay? I mean, so give them some grace there.
But I think have some discernment around it, I think is important. Would he be willing to go through Financial Peace University with you and go, hey, I understand.
Like, I grew up in a different context. I have, you know, I grew up learning about how to manage money.
It may be something he just didn't have, and if he's willing to learn and willing to get on a plan, that's a green flag. But if he goes, nah, I'm good, I'm going to do my thing, that would be a red flag to pause moving forward in this relationship.
Okay, yeah. I brought it up once, and it was not brushed off.
I was like, oh, yeah, that would be cool, so maybe it's something I bring back up. Okay.
How much, do you know how much he makes? He makes about 140 a year. Okay.
So he makes great money, which tells me in San Diego though, in San Diego, it doesn't go as far. Yeah.
I was just wondering, is this on fire? Does he need to get rid of the car yesterday? You know what? Has he sort of had any sense of urgency when you talk to him? He has two cars. No, he has two cars.
His family history doesn't seem crazy great with money from what I've seen. Yeah.
It's kind of like a little bit of living in excess and you don't really have the means to do so. Yes, yeah.
That's a good observation. I feel like he's just kind of doing what's familiar to him on that.
The second car, he's said in the past that it's something he could easily sell if he wanted to and not have to make the car payment. He has two car payments and one of, like, it's just kind of toys for him.
Exactly. And one's paid off.
One's not. Yeah.

So, yeah, I mean, one's just a toy.

I mean, again, I'm not trying to defend him by any means, because, again, it could just be a mess, Claire, and you may be like, oh, my gosh.

But, you know, like you said, he may be just doing what he has seen and doesn't know a difference. So then another, you know, bucket I would put not to vilify his family by any means, but to be like, hey, what are things that your family does with money that you like?

And what are things that you

don't like? And ask some open-ended

questions. And then seek his humility.

Is he willing to learn and do

something different? If he's stubborn in something

in a way,

again, that's more of the yellow-red

flag. So there's some digging there.

But just because he's a spender, Claire.

I hope he's willing to change because Claire is worth

it. She is.
You are worth it, Claire. This is The Ramsey Show.
You shouldn't own a gun. You're not willing to shoot.
In moments of self-defense, a Berna launcher lets you protect yourself in a non-lethal way. That's exactly why Berna launchers were created.
Everyone, from parents and nurses to pastors and even Special Forces veterans, rely on Berna to protect themselves and their families. I own several Bernas myself.
They look like guns, but they're not. They shoot a .68 caliber round kinetic or chemical irritant projectile that can disable a threat from up to 60 feet away.
And they're powered by compressed CO2 cartridges, so they're classified with paintball and airsoft guns. But they're more powerful than those for increased protection.
Not to mention, burner launchers are legal in all 50 states with no permits required. And because they're not firearms, they can be shipped directly to your door.
Plus, Ramsey fans can get 10% off an exclusive bundle, which includes a Berna pistol, CO2 cartridges, and ammo. And other Berna products like safety alarms, defense sprays, and body armor are also 10% off for our listeners.
Just go to Burna.com slash Dave to learn more. That's B-Y-R-N-A dot com slash Dave.
I talk to people every day who want to know how to do better in two areas, money and relationships. That's why I'm pumped to bring the Money and Relationships Tour to a city near you.
Join me and Dr. John Deloney for a night that will challenge the way you think about this stuff and possibly change how you live forever.
Starting April 21st, we'll be in Louisville, then on to Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth, and Kansas City. Grab your tickets at RamseySolutions.com slash tour before they're gone.
Going to the phones, we have Paul in Washington, D.C. Hey, Paul, welcome to the show.
Hey, thanks, guys. This is such an honor.
And you guys have been such a blessing to my wife and I as we got through Financial Peace University. So thank you so much.
Amazing. Yes, absolutely.
Well, thanks for doing it. Thanks for being a listener.
How can we help? Yeah, so here's our situation. So my brother and sister-in-law surprised us by opening a 529 for our newborn son.
And at first we were, yeah, at first we were appreciative. But when we asked how it worked, since we didn't really know much about the logistics of 529, they revealed to us that we can't contribute since the 529 is under their name and that we would have to ask for permission, their permission, for how the money is going to be later deployed.
Now, for us, it doesn't really feel right going to my older brother to ask for money for my son's college, let alone getting their decisions for our son's education. Yeah, 100%.
100%. This is crazy, Paul.
Why would they do that? I don't understand why they wouldn't just open it up in the child's name and then hand you guys over the account. Why do do they want control over that that's kind of a part of the question that we're talking about today is number one just understanding 529 okay also just um more of us handling family logistics for this now just to add context i do work in a family business specifically for my brother right okay so um we're even now we are planning on changing jobs eventually.
Now, of course, we're thinking that we're creating a situation where the 529 almost creates a financial dependency on them that might create future tensions down the road. So ultimately, we want to know your guys' thoughts about family members opening 529 for their relatives, in this case their nephew, and what you think we should do.
So, yeah, because we're trying to, all these are great people, right? These are our family. We love them.
But we want to make sure that we're doing the right thing, too, with setting up for our son so that he has the liberty and us as parents the responsibility to help him for college. 100%.
Yeah. That's our contact.
Yeah. I yeah i mean no your line of thinking is is spot on um again i go back to i i um i it's so interesting to me that they want that level of control because you can open up a 529 in a child's name and you give all the rights to the parents and then the parents just handle the account over there right i that, that, that does happen.
Family members do that. So I don't understand why they still want control over it.
Yeah. Cause we did have a conversation with them first thanking them.
And we did ask them if they were able to switch it over from their name into our name so that we would just take control from there on out. Kind of like give the keys to the card to us, which they declined that, and they insisted that this was their gift and they wanted to manage it.
But are you telling me, is your child the beneficiary on that account? Our child is the beneficiary, that's correct. Okay, got it.
Because you said they opened it in their name, and I went, wait, what? Are they putting themselves as the beneficiary? But no, your child is the beneficiary, but they are the owner of the account.

And that's the part that gives you pause.

So here's what I would do.

I wouldn't count on it.

I just want to accept it.

Anyone can open an account for anyone.

And so that's the thing is like you just go, hey, I'm going to ignore it.

If there's money there and they choose to give it to your son, wonderful.

But I would plan for your own child's college and act like this is gravy on top if it ever

comes to fruition. Sure.
Okay. Okay.
Yeah. Ultimately.
Yeah. Sorry.
You go ahead first.

No. Well, yeah.
I mean, it's, it's so, um, you know, it's Paul, gosh, the strings attached

element. That's what I'm trying to get at is the element when it comes to families

and giving gifts, right? We talked to a lot of people on the show and there's a fine line

between enabling.

Some people call and they're like,

oh my gosh,

Thank you. I don't need control over that anymore because it's a gift.
It is now yours. And because it's in your child's name, you as the parent should be responsible for that, right? So you're knee-jerk in this, and you're exactly right.
That gets very messy, especially if they are wanting a say over how he's going to use it when he it when he's 18 what happens if he goes to a college they don't like or gets a degree they disagree with now it's awkward so and they're not the parents yeah i wouldn't worry about it you can have multiple 529s in a child's name so i would open one up that you guys control and i would fund that and if people want to gift money have it funded in there and if they want to put money in this account and they want to give it to your kid one day, that's great. But again, I wouldn't count on it, but I also wouldn't be like, I would let go of the resentment over this.
And, you know, unless you think there's malicious intent, you know, it might just be them going, hey, we want control over this if we dump the money in. I understand.
Now, one other aspect to this is, should we have a mature conversation with them and decline the 529 offering now? Just because I don't want this thing to turn into a mess later where it grows up to maybe a good size, which then they become resentful that they put in all this work and effort for their nephew. Right.
Only to have the parents later. Well, here's the thing.
You can change the beneficiary at any time. So if your kid doesn't use it or they have whatever kids, they have grandkids, other nephews they want to change it to, that's their right as the owners of the account.
And so it's nothing for you to decline. If they offer it and you don't want it, then that's on you.
Okay, you wouldn't have a conversation, George. If it was my older brother, I'd'd be like, hey man, this just feels weird.
Yeah, I would sit down and have the conversation, Paul. I would and just say, hey, yeah, this, it just, it's, it's, I, and put it on you, right? It's not, it's not, oh, well, you're doing this.
I don't feel comfortable as Paul the dad. Just, I don't feel, yeah, I don't feel 100% comfortable because I don't know what the next 18 years is going to look like for my child.
And I just want to be able to know that number one, college is funded. And as parents, like we're going to be able to do that.
And we're going to do that on the side. And depending on what he wants to do with that money, I want us as a family unit to be able to make those decisions together and not involve you guys in all of them and so that's really what we're setting up

for our family thank you so much for the offer if you guys want to continue to put money in there or it just sits over there that's totally fine and you know maybe at 18 like he may use it he also may not i don't want to tie my son to this either so if you guys emotionally are great with it have an empty hand and do it say exactly what george said that you know and if he doesn't end using it in this account, you can actually move actually $35,000 over to a Roth IRA. There's an option there.
Or move it to another child in the family. That's an option.
But I want all of this just to be said out loud as we start this. And that's what we're feeling and thinking.
But thank you so much. I mean, that's so kind of you guys to even offer.
But yeah, I'm not 100% comfortable with every element of that deal. Yeah, you guys are the best.
This was extremely helpful and gave a lot of clarity to a hopefully not complicated family situation. Yeah.
Thank you so much, guys. Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely. Yeah, that's an interesting one.
Yeah, I just, I want to know what's underneath all of this. Or is there any kind of like sibling, you know, he's in a family business with his brother.
And so there might be more to this that we can probably need to unpack in a therapy session versus the Ramsey show. But there might be more to this.
Yeah, there could be 100%. Yeah, I mean, we get.
But best case, it wasn't malicious. And they just go, well, we're funding it.
So I feel like we should have a say. And that's okay to say, no, we're not comfortable with that.
Wouldn't that feel so weird, though, George? I couldn't imagine saying that to a niece or nephew. Like, I'm funding this.
Like, my brother loves our daughter. For William and Lydia, but I want to say over what Lydia's going to do.
I don't know. Like, that feels so, I don't know.
That feels so odd to me. Yeah.
If my brother opened an account for my daughter and said, well, you don't get a say, and I get to control where this money gets used and how, I'd be like, no, then we're good. I mean, yeah, and especially a 529 because it's for education.
It's not like it's this big trust fund and it's like, hey, I want to make sure the 18-year-old is like semi-mature before they get this money. But from a character standpoint, it can only be used for education.
So I'm like, I don't know. There's not much you can like screw up there yeah unless paul's you know i'm kidding paul i was gonna say unless the brother is like oh well uncle paul you know he's not good with money but i think you are paul so i just i trust you and we need the brother online to go well she's gonna he's gonna go to liberal arts college i'm not you that.
We should start a new show, the Family Conflict Show.

Hey, Paul, we got your brother on the line.

That would be amazing.

The surprise.

Come on out.

You are the uncle.

That's a little too Maury for me.

Maury.

Maury.

It has a little bit of that feel to it.

Oh, man.

Good times.

Well, Paul, I hope that helps, and I hope, like George said, that it's—

Open up your own five.

Here's what I say, Rachel.

Go fund yourself. You like that? That's as edgy as I get on a family-friendly show.
You're crazy, George. Go fund your own kids 529 and not worry about what everyone else is doing.
Listen, guys, I've heard just about every excuse for why folks think they can't get ahead with money. So let's go ahead and settle this right now.
The truth is you get to decide what happens with your money. And if you want to start winning with money, you have to get on a budget.
The Every Dollar Budget app makes it easy for you to plan every dollar you've got coming in and every dollar going out. Plus it's free.
So no more excuses. Go download Every Dollar in the App Store or Google Play today.

All right, let's go to Savannah, Georgia, and we've got Blake on the line. Hi, Blake.
Welcome to the show. Hey, thank you guys so much, man.
I'm so excited to talk with you guys. Thank you.
Oh, so glad you called. How can we help? Yeah.
So I'm calling you guys today because I really need a little bit of guidance with, you know, this part of our lives. I've been married for seven years.
We got a daughter. She's about five years old and we were living as missionaries in South America.
And unfortunately we had to come off the field around July last year. And so we've been readjusting to life here in the States, which when we were gone and came back to the States, we were kind of blown away at some of the prices because they weren't the same as they were years ago.
Right. Whenever we, whenever we decided that it was finally time to, you know, we got readjusted.
We both got jobs. My wife makes about 31,000 a year.
about, I'm a little embarrassed about it, but I'm making about $1,600 to $1,800 a month. And so the only, the debt that we have, including our vehicle right now, is under $15,000.
And we did the every dollar budget as well. But the only hope I have of, I mean, right now, the only hope that I currently see if I stay at my current job, which is as a custodian, you know, in December, I'll have an opportunity to adjust all of our benefits.

And when I cancel everything out, I'll be receiving about $580 extra a month. So we'll get around to the $22 to $2,400 a month for me.
My wife will stay about $2,100 a month. And so the only other options I have right now is to sub as a substitute.
And the only thing I've been doing extra so far is to, I've been trying my hand at door dashing. And sometimes, you know, that's not been the very best ideas, but I'm not really sure what to do because the only degrees I have are, you know, for my Bible college.
So we've got a master's in ministry, you know. How old are you guys, Blake? I'm 34 and my wife is 29.
Okay, so great. Well, let me first just say, I would not be embarrassed by that amount.
I think that you're doing hard work and you guys are just shifting what life has looked like. I mean, up until this point, yeah, you guys were living one life.
You're coming back and doing something else, right? And so that does not speak to who you are as a person. And so much in our world, our salaries and our income and our net worth becomes our self-worth, right? That is such an American mindset.
And so I understand it feels defeating because you're like, I'm working really hard and I feel like I'm not making enough to support my family. So all of that, that tension, I'm so glad to hear because also like we get calls on the show and they're like, my husband won't go to work and we don't have enough to make ends meet, you know, and you're like, they won't swallow their pride.
Yeah, they won't swallow their pride and just do what you're doing. So like, there's so much upside for you, but like, even from just the attitude of how you're approaching all of this.
So just hear, hear us say that first and foremost, um, and, and who you are in your character, honestly, is what takes you far in life. It's usually not a college degree in what you got your degree in, quote unquote, because half the people don't even use their degree.
And so, yeah, so I think there's a lot of upside. So I'm curious, Blake, for you, you know, you're 34, like what would you want to be doing at 40? Like what is a job? What is a career path? What is a line of work that gets you excited? Right.
So the thing I've always been excited about was when I was 15, man, that's for us, like God's been a big part of our lives and he saved me when I was 15. And the most exciting thing in the world was seeing missionaries come by our church.
And I'm like, man, I answered that call to go. Well, when we had to come off through a lot of tears and stuff, like we couldn't go back.
And so I don't think right now that's an option, but I would love to be in ministry regardless of what we're making. But the only thing that I've ever done that I've enjoyed was, you know, putting what I've learned into other people.
I guess that would be called mentoring, but I'm not, I'm not really sure work-wise what the answer to that would be. I'm sorry.
Okay. No, no.
You don't have to be sorry at all. We're going to give you a resource to help with that.
Before we leave the call, our phone screener is going to pick up and give you Ken Coleman's book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do. It comes with a Get Clear Career Assessment.
I want you and your wife to take that because I just think you guys can do better. You need to do better for your family.
And that's going to mean finding a career you can sink your teeth into instead of just odd jobs. And let me also tell you this.
Any job can be a ministry. And I know that you can work within the church system and that can be a real blessing.
But man, there is so much ministry should be done outside of the church too. And I want you to know that there is immense purpose regardless of where the Lord takes you.
And I hope that it just encourages you to look beyond the scope of just, well, if I'm not a missionary, who am I? What am I going to do? Right. Yeah, thank you for that.
I'd love to take the assessment. Yeah.
Have you guys, you said you did your every dollar budget. I'm curious, how much does it take to run your household each month? um I know we're about, the last time I looked at it about three weeks ago is the first time that I did it.
And that's how I got connected with you guys. We're about $734 in the red.
And so if we're bringing home about $3,800 a month, then we're in a hole about, I guess, about $4,500 from where we're renting right now. How much is your rent? So the rent's $1,375.
And this was the cheapest thing we could find in our area. Yeah.
I mean, it's not expensive. Yeah.
So I'm curious, Blake, is there anything in the area that for the meantime that instead of trying to pair, because you could, you two or three side hustles together it's just going to be exhausting and that's not sustainable long term so i'm just wondering from your primary income is there anything out there that's paying you know because right now you're making what 27 you're making 20k a year right now which is about 10 bucks an hour after taxes yes sir so i'm wondering know, anything working at Walmart, you're going to make more than that. I mean, but is there anything in your area that, yeah, that you're able to make $40,000, $50,000? So I've been looking for, you know, ever since July, and I've been trying to find that answer.
The only things that we've got for entry-level work is about $1,650 an hour. And right now we're getting about $1,675 because we put into benefits, unfortunately, at the school.
And that won't change until next year when we can cancel those. All the entry-level work is about $1,550 to $1,650 unless you specialize or have a degree in something or have prior experience to it.
Yeah, and I'm even wondering if there's people in your area that, yeah, because Ken Coleman talks about this a lot, that so much of our work and getting that next step or that next job is more about the people you know. It's not about the application.
And so, yeah, in your realm of people, Maybe your church community even asking around there. Yeah, if there's a business owner and they need admin work, right? I mean, like anything like that or even some remote jobs, Blake, which might drive you nuts being in the house all day.
I don't know because you're probably an active guy. But yeah, if there's anything within your community that I think that's going to be your best bet, Blake, between now and the next year.
Instead of putting together what you can, and you're going to have to do something soon because you can't be in the red for long. Can you guys cut your expenses? It still feels like there's a lot.
I mean, you still have thousands more in expenses every month, even beyond your rent. Sure.
So when we went to it, we actually adjusted it to what would be the most ideal situation for us. And we completely cut out every extra spending that we were doing.
How much is the car payment a month? So that one is $275. We owe about $8,300 more on it.
And I don't think we could even, that was another lesson learned, but I don't know that we could sell it for enough to be able to purchase another. Yeah.
Is that what it's underwater? Yeah. Is that the only debt you guys have? Other than that, we just have a four credit card.
So since we started your budget, We paid off my lowest one, about $500 something. We paid half of my wife's lowest one after that.
So we're doing the snowball. Okay, that's great.
You guys are making progress. Yeah, that's great.
I mean, yeah, in between now and March, I probably would be doing some side hustle stuff. And if there's anything that you can do that goes straight to the consumer, we always find that you're going to make more doing that.
So even if that's tutoring, you said that you're, you know, a substitute teacher. So if you can even tutor, doing something like that for the meantime, but looking for that main income to go up is going to be the key and kind of getting you on that right path.
We're going to give you, yeah, Ken Coleman's career assessment. So make sure to do that, Blake.

And if anyone else is new like Blake

and you want to know where you are with the Baby Steps,

make sure to go and check your progress

and receive a personalized plan.

And you can click the link in the show notes,

which is titled, Are You on Track with the Baby Steps?

And complete that quiz.

And this hour is up, George.

And we'll see all of you guys live on radio

and in the Ramsey app coming next. Outro Music