The Key to Financial Success: Slow and Steady

From the Ramsey Network, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Camel, joined by number one bestselling author, Mr.
Ken Coleman. And we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225.
We'll help you with your money, making more of it, keeping more of it, spending less, all of the issues. And Ken is the man when it comes to how do I make more income? Because that is my greatest wealth building tool.
Maybe that's switching jobs. Mo' money New career path.
There we go. Some short term side hustles, whatever it is.
We want to help you make the most of your money. Happy Friday, sir.
You as well. Do you have a brand new bomber jacket? I always try to impress Ken with my wardrobe.
I feel like this is one I haven't seen before. He looks impressed.
I am impressed. It's a good look.
It's a dark chocolate. If I'm going to be really honest, Ken, I just came down from our event center where we have our money and marriage event, and I'm looking out at some lovely couples who came to join us.
We have actually really good looking. I was looking at them before the show.
It's a pretty good looking group of people. You say it like it's rare, Ken.
Well, it is rare. I'll be honest.
But today, a kid. We've got a great looking group out there.
Full studio lobby. We're going to have fun today.
That's what George and I do.

We're going to coach you, but we're going to have some fun.

So, you know, this stuff doesn't have to be dour.

As I say, if we don't laugh, we cry.

And by the way, I've got to say one other thing on the bomber jacket.

It matches your beard perfectly.

Ken, I need to just carry you in my pocket just to compliment me.

Thank you so much.

Your pocket's too small for me to fit in.

I'm a small man.

True story.

Skinny jeans will do that.

That's right.

All right. Mary's up first in Miami.
What's going on, Mary? How can we help? Hi. Uh-oh.
There we are. Hello? Yes.
You sounded like a monster for a second, but now we got you back. Okay.
Okay, great. We actually were sold a home illegally, and we are wondering if we should claim bankruptcy.

Tell us a little bit more.

Someone sold you a house that they were not legally allowed to sell you?

What happened?

So we bought the home in April of 2023, and we wanted to get some things done done like fencing and encapsulate the crawl space underneath. And we learned that when we went to go get the property surveyed for the fencing, that the property didn't exist.
And so there were no permits. There's no CO on the house.
What do you mean the property didn't exist? They told us the property didn't exist in the county. There was no house that was on that property.
I'm confused. You bought a house sight unseen? No.
We bought the house. We saw the house.
The county had no idea the house was built was built oh so the house was illegally built on that land in the first place with no permits and then that person sold it to you how did you even go through the closing process was it just done through the seller no it was done through all of the bells and whistles that you're supposed to do with inspectors and real estate agents and lenders and everything. And they still sold it to us.
I mean, aren't there titles to be cleared? I mean, I'm just so confused how nobody caught this. Yeah.
So the lenders were in the bylaws of our contract. They were supposed to get the CEO and obtain it five days after closing and they never did.
And then we didn't find out about all of that. This is our first home.
We were first time homebuyers. So we learned a lot in this process.
What'd you pay for it? $259. And you got a loan on that? Yes.
It's a USDA loan. Okay.
How much was the loan for? It was for $259,000. So you put nothing down with the USDA loan? No, we did put down $12,000.
Okay. So why are you having to file bankruptcy? I get what we just heard.
I'm now understanding that, but it feels like a lot of people dropped the ball, and it was before you. And so this has got to shake out somehow so what what what have you done so far what do you know what do you not know so basically um we have a lawyer on it now um we tried to get help without a lawyer and tried to talk to the builder and gave him all the documents and tried to actually um him to agree to buy back the house.
He obviously did not agree to that. In the process of all of this, the house is actually, it was creating more mold.
The floors are sinking. The walls are leaning.
We're starting to see things. Did you get an inspection? We did, yes.
And they caught none of this? They caught none of it.

This is a scam.

Yeah, it's terrible. Was the inspector friends with the builder?

We're not sure, but it seems like it.

So this wasn't a resale, somebody else living in it.

This was a builder built this essentially as a spec house on that property.

As a brand new home.

He said it was a brand new build.

And he actually built on a 1950s foundation.

Oh, of course.

Do you have a good lawyer?

We're not sure.

At this point, nothing has happened.

No, no, no.

Hold on a second.

Okay.

Now your lawyer's dragging this out?

Well, the lawyer's not dragging it out,

but there's not really a lot of motion happening. And we just keep paying him.
Mary, Mary, Mary, it is time for you to get real, seriously mad and get going with it. Fire the lawyer now.
You are getting jerked around like I've never even, I can't remember the last time I heard a story like this, and I feel bad for you, but you are going to have to stand up and fight. So the builder screwed you, the inspector screwed you, sounds like your lawyer is screwing you over, and you are the common denominator in this.
And I hate that this is happening, but I got to tell you, George, if I were in this situation, I promise you I'd have the builder begging for mercy because he is liable. The inspector is liable.
And your lawyer is a scumbag. I could go take care of this in court and I could get a law degree out of a Froot Loops box and take care of this situation.
Am I right, George? Am I missing anything? No, this is the Ken Coleman Esquire energy you need, Mary. I'm more pissed off than you are, Mary.
This is America. I'd be taking that builder to the cleaners with a scary attorney right now.
I'd go to the local news. They love this crap.
We tried the local news. They told us it was a legal issue oh my gosh okay mary all you do is make excuses for why you're getting abused what okay so what's the ramifications here of you living in a home that has no record are they going to evict you i assume we can't even live in it no we can't live in it so we actually in it.
Are you renting with staying with family? Okay. So you're renting right now, but you still make payments.
Have you talked to the lender that they basically have bad collateral here? Yes, they said they didn't care. They don't care you still owe us the payment every single month.
Yes. And you can't sell it.
I think your only way out of this, and again, I'm not an attorney. This is for your attorney to deal to deal with you got to sue this builder to get your money back get an attorney what we're trying to do get rid of your current but do not file bankruptcy that's not the solution here the solution is to take this builder to court sue them potentially get the inspector involved because they clearly can't do their job well and then collect on whatever the settlement is i wish i had better news i mean we have no no power in this but i'm going to tell you don't do anything drastic like bankruptcy at this point you're just gonna have to float the payment until this gets solved which would light a fire under me i wouldn't even float the payment i'd be sitting in the i'd be sitting in the banker's office the lender going I'm not paying you a cent because all of you are going down.

But after I got a lawyer who had a brain and who wasn't going to take advantage of you guys.

Yeah, I think A1, find a new attorney.

New attorney with a backbone, somebody who wants to destroy somebody.

This is wrong.

What a weird situation.

Oh, my gosh.

I got a headache.

Thanks for sharing, Mary.

I hope it works out for you guys. This is The Ramsey Show.
Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance, or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John.
Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're not going to die or something? Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it.

And one of my buddies said, hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you

hate your wife and kids.

And I immediately went and got term life insurance.

That's a gut punch.

For decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse.

They've lost somebody important to them.

Me too.

They don't know what to do next.

You're going to have a crisis here.

You know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow.
That's exactly right. These are the two options.
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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by Ken Coleman.
Open phones at 888-825-5225. If you guys want to take control of your money this year, there is no better way to do that than by making a budget.
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Be sure to check it out. Landon is up next in Memphis.
What's going on, Landon? Hey, I appreciate y'all taking my call. Sure.
How can Ken and I help? So this is probably a really stupid question, but I'm a tightwad, so I got to ask it anyways. Okay.
So I'm in baby step seven, my wife and I, and we're 27. And really the

problem with my question is I feel like I just have too much of my net worth wrapped up in my

house, but I just recently bought a Mercedes S class maybe a day or two ago. And just emotionally

to me, it feels like I spent way too much money on something that goes down in value. And it just

eats me up thinking about what I could put that money in that would go up in value um and so my question is just should I take this stupid car back well let's talk about the what you spent on it uh so after taxes and fees and all that you know junk is about 35 grand all right and what's your household income uh the averaged about $250,000. Well, there's some ratios for you.
That puts it in perspective. How much do you have tied up in everything with wheels and motors in your house right now? Probably got $45,000, counting the Mercedes.
Yeah. Okay.
You're driving an older car for the other car. Dave would have said, you should have bought a nicer car.
You're not doing anything wrong. Both of my cars outside of the Mercedes are probably worth $10,000 total.
I understand ratio-wise it sounds okay, but emotionally it just doesn't feel right to write a check for something that goes down in value when I could put that in something like some mutual funds, retirement, whatever. All right.
Let me ask you a quick question, Landon, and you seem like a very even keeled level headed person. So this may be difficult for you to answer, but have you ever acted out of emotion before and realized that your emotion was wrong? Sure.
All right. So your emotion is wrong on this Mercedes.

Well, your emotions wrong. I mean, intellectually, I get that.
Like I do get that, but wait a second. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
You started off and said it was all emotional. And I, I just destroyed the emotional argument on your behalf, by the way.
And now you want to go intellectual. Well, what I mean is, basically, all in all in, we're worth about $750,000, and about $550,000 of that is in my house.
Okay. And so it just feels like cash-wise, I feel like $35,000 is rich out of the cash that I have available is what I mean.
It's not. Landon, there are people who have a negative net worth who bought more expensive cars than you today.
And so just know that in the grand scheme of life, it's going to be okay. And here's the deal.
When you're young, naturally, more of your house is going to make up your net worth. It might be 50, 60, 70, 80% when you're young, but over time, compound growth with your investments will catch up.
And so by the time you retire, your house will probably a third of your net worth. And And you're right.
That car will be in an impound somewhere 30 years from now. And that's okay.
Stuff is stuff. You wouldn't say go buy a $10,000 on Toyota Camry or something.
You're in your live like no one else era. You said you have a paid for house, right? You're in baby step seven.
Then what's the point of money? You're scared to death over nothing. There's three things you can do with money, Landon.
You can give it, save it, spend it. And if you just save it, you're going to drive yourself crazy.
If you just spend it, you're going to end up broke. And if you just give it, you'll be a great philanthropist, but unable to retire.
And so it's wise to do all three. And what you're experiencing is something I experienced as well, which is needing to flex this muscle of spending after you've been so aggressive toward a financial goal of paying off the house or investing.
And so this is something I struggled with. When I wrote, when I stroke a check for my wife's last car, we bought her, it hurt my soul.
I've never spent that much money on anything outside of a house. And I remember that.
And Ken remembers. I was talking to him about it, but over time you, you'll look back 10 years from now and go, remember when I stressed out about buying a 35 000 car i'm sure dave ramsey had the same experience yeah now dave dave's cars are worth more than my house and so it's okay to have nice stuff as long as you understand that it's a toy that goes down in value it doesn't make or break you money just magnifies who you are and it sounds like you are right on track what year what year is that mercedes and how many miles 2018 it's about 80 85 000 yeah it's totally fine i i drive a used mercedes as well if you take good care of it it'll last forever it's a little bit more expensive to keep up yes but you've got it i mean listen you've been shooting all over yourself and you need to, should, just for those listening who weren't sure what Ken just said.
I know exactly what I said, and we all tend to should. I didn't notice that either.
Should, but I'm using it very purposefully. My therapist helps me with this.
It's called double entendre. Stop shooting on yourself.
I should have done this, and I should have done that. That's the idea.
And so you can sit there and play that game and talk yourself into another $5,000 car. Sounds like you got two $5,000 cars or somewhere in that range.
So you do whatever you want to do. You can take the car back and if that allows you to sleep better, but I think you're not addressing what's really going on.
And what's going on, George, this is more your is more your lane than mine although I understand I just think there's a deep rooted shame in this that I'm not allowed to have this night something this nice that's what I don't think it's fear I think it's shame I think he's got shame over this and I think you got to confront that did you grow up with money Landon uh yeah my, maybe my parents had some money for sure. So what was the, you know, we say behavior is a language.
How did the way they handled money influence you? Well, I'll tell you what, honestly, what I think it is, is honestly that I've just been so aggressive since I was 18, because, I mean, you know, just doing this since I was 18, and, you know, doing this throughout marriage, that it almost feels like, you know, I need to stay aggressive.

You know what I mean?

And so, you know, we just fought and clawed so hard to pay our house off and the whole deal.

Yeah.

What does your spouse think about this?

Oh, she legitimately, we went up to the dealership and she said, buy whatever you want.

I'm tired and went home.

Good for her.

That's a good woman right there.

That's a good woman.

By the way, let me just ask you this. How long have you been familiar with Dave and his teachings and what we do here? Since I was probably 12.
All right, I want you to finish a sentence for me, okay? You ready? Sure, sure. Live like no one else so that later you can live like no one else.
All right then. Now swap that with drive.
Drive like no one else. Drive the crappy car so later you can drive like no one else drive the crappy car so later you worked really hard you worked really hard to get to a point where you can buy a 35 000 benz and by the way your wife has worked really hard too and she deserves to go on date night with you in a car that you don't have to pedal like fred flintstone hey there he is did you hear that laugh that's the first time on this entire call i felt like we got the real you who wasn't so uptight well what's so funny about that is that's not far off from what i'm driving outside of the bins i know i know i don't look like this car this guy he thinks do i do i come across really dumb because when you tell me you've got two cars worth $10,000,

those are Fred Flintstone cars.

I didn't have to do a lot of deduction, my man.

And so she deserves better.

She deserves better.

If you want to drive a turd on wheels, then that's up to you.

But she doesn't deserve that.

Can we agree it's Valentine's Day, for heaven's sakes? I agree. I agree with you.
All right, then. Relax.
You worked really hard. It is impossible for me, George, to conceive of a scenario where Landon does something dumb with money.
Yeah. I mean, you are spot on our parameters.
Here it is. If all the things with wheels, motors, and your life adds up to more than half of your annual income, you're off track.
That's simply too much. You are not even close to that.
And again, like ratios, Dave buying a nice car is like me buying a biscuit. And so you have to understand the ratios look different when you have a very high income, your net worth's gonna continually grow.
You're 27. You got another 30, 40 years of working for you and investing to build wealth.
And so in the meantime, you have to do something called enjoying life. And I'm scared because you're kind of like me.
I'm wired to go, but if we didn't eat this month, we could invest that in a good gross stock mutual fund. It can make 12% over that.
You can't live your life like that. You got to let go.
Speaking of letting go and living life, George, how do you eat a biscuit? What do you put on your biscuit? One bite at a time. Oh, really? Yeah.
No butter? No jam? I'll do a little butter. No jam? No honey? It's like a chicken biscuit? What are we talking? I'm asking you.
It's your biscuit. Yeah.
I'll do half butter, half jelly. Best of both worlds.
How about you? Oh, I like the jam. A lot of jam.
Jam's your jam. I respect that.
Yeah. Well, glad we could at least help Landon get over his emotions.
This is The Ramsey Show. Let's be honest.
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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel here with Ken Coleman, taking your calls at 888-825-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725-725 Ken Coleman, taking your calls at 888-825-5225.
You know, we've got a phone number to call, of course, and we get a lot of voicemails on that. And so occasionally we like to do a little segment called Sorry We Missed Your Call, where we listen to the voicemail and respond without having to talk to them.
Yeah. So let's see what we have today So let's see what we have today.
What do you got for us, Kelly? I actually am trying to get some financial advice on if I have $30,000, which I do, and another thousand to 1500 a month, what would be the best move or strategy to turn that $30,000 into $300,000 in one year? The last month or two, I've been learning stocks, bonds, ETFs, options, day trading. Still got a lot further to go on acquiring knowledge whenever it comes to that, but just wanted to get some info from someone that actually knows what they're doing and talking about.
Thank you very much. All right.
Good question. My first thought, Ken, was you don't need knowledge.
You need patience. This guy's about to lose his butt.
Yeah. But he wants to 10X that 30 Gs.
30 grand to 300 grand in one year. Go to Vegas, my man.
I was going to say. Hit the craps table.
Good luck. Highly, highly prospective investment.
It's a quick turnaround. Yeesh.
My question is always with these. Why? Why the urgency and the desperation to turn 30 into 300? What is this get rich quick mentality? Where is it coming from? Social media.
Likely friends, social media. I saw a guy who posted that he does day trading and if I buy his course, he'll show me how to 10x my money guaranteed.
It's the microwave mentality. You got to be a crockpot in a world full of microwaves.
And this is not just my opinion. One of my favorite proverbs from the Bible, Ken, wealth gained hastily will dwindle, but whoever gathers little by little will increase it.
It's ancient wisdom. Wow.
You gain wealth fast, you're going to lose it even faster. And so you're going to fall on your face trying to do this.
And I want you to build wealth. And I popped it into my investment calculator just to kind of get a lay of the land.
Instead of one year, if you had 30 grand, you're 30, I don't know, if you're in your mid thirties, let's say, 30 grand, you're adding $1,500 a month,

10% rate of return on average.

It'll take you probably eight or nine years

to get to 300 grand.

And I'd much rather you gain it slow and keep it

than try to risk it all by day trading

or doing options trading and lose it all.

So that's my take.

That's the Ramsey plan is let's get rich slow.

Let's build wealth the right way

and not be in a hurry to do it. If you want to make more money, go increase your income.
You can increase your savings rate, but trying to gamble this away is not the move. I like it.
I think we need a new segment called George Quotes the Bible. I would love that actually.
I think that would be great. I thought you did a good job there.
The guy calls, leaves a voicemail, and you drop some proverbs. This is my encouragement, too.
His name's Travis. Go read a Proverb a day.
There it is. You can read it in a whole month if you just do that, and it will give you the best financial wisdom money can buy.
No course necessary. You can read it online for free.
Download the Bible app. There you go.
But I'm telling you, there's just some wisdom in being the tortoise instead of the hare. We know how that story plays out.
The tortoise wins every time. Every time.
So thanks for the question, though. Casey is up next in Lexington, Kentucky.
What's going on, Casey? Hello. Thanks for having me on.
I understand now why people say that. I have, oh, my goodness, I forgot my question.
No, okay. Okay.
So when we finish baby step three, which I believe is a fully funded three to six months, right? Yes. Correct.
Okay. So after we finish that, um, which should be, it's going to be a little while till we finish that, but that's like our next step.
Um, we have been discussing buying a house, um, or putting money into our business. We're kind of business owners now.
It's complicated, but I just wasn't sure what would be the best thing to buy a house or to invest in our business. What's your business? Tell us a little bit about it.
Okay. So it's my husband's business husband's business.
I'll, I'll practice it with that. Um, he owns a restaurant and he wants another location, but more of like his own type of deal.
Cause right now he's got a few partners and it's kind of complicated. Um, but like eventually stepping out and doing something so low down the line.
Yeah. Uh, that's all I needed to hear.
I just just wanted to know what what we were looking at and what the investment would do and i would not put the business investment in front of saving for a house okay okay especially in the hospitality industry there is immense risk in starting a restaurant yeah let's see how this deal works out tell him to be patient feels like that George, I mean, excuse me, the voicemail we just answered. I think this is a patience deal on the professional side of things.
He's got multiple partners. Those at times, that can be tricky.
And he's already got some real money, and I'm guessing some sweat equity involved there. Let's learn.
Let's see if that proves to be successful before he chases another rabbit. There's an old phrase.
If you chase two rabbits, you lose them both. And I think that would be the advice I would give your hubs there.
Let's move forward on a stable plan to get a good house. George, tell them what we want them to do on that house.
So you're saving up for a down payment. That would be your next goal after Baby Step 3.
We call that Baby Step 3B, where before you start investing, which is Baby Step 4, you just go real hard at getting that down payment set in under two years. Is that realistic for you guys? It might be a little longer than that.
That's okay. The business is kind of up and down.
It's not super steady the income. One more reason to not go start another one.
We don't have this one squared away. But yeah, in that case, what you could do once you finish baby step three, just go ahead and begin investing 15% of your household income into retirement plans.
And if he's self-employed, there's still a lot of options out there. There's always a Roth IRA, which you can do outside of employment.
There's solo 401ks. I imagine his situation, it might be different, but there's a lot of opportunity to invest.
And then on top of that, save up for that down payment. And once you guys have a little more stability in your life, and you've got that foundation, now we can figure out what it's going to take to start this business.
And I hope you do it with cash and just move slow. Yeah, that's why I'm calling you guys because I'm like, we're terrified of debt.
We did something stupid twice. We paid off eight credit cards and loans and then closed them.
And then we reopened like eight more cards. But we're about paid off and we're done with debt.
I've listened to guys so much. It's such an embarrassing thing, but we're done with off and we're done with that.
Like I've listened to guys so much, like it's such an embarrassing thing, but, um, we're done with that and we're just looking to the future and doing everything debt free or, you know, I know a mortgage will be taking that on, but, um, but some like, should we do a business and, you know, and increase income, but I really want roots. I'd figure out what is a reasonable goal for this business.
Once we are, we, once we're in the house, okay, what's it going to take to start this business? And then figure out what that number is and how do we start slow if it's an overwhelming number. We can't afford a million dollar.
Are you working? I'm not. No, I have two kids and I stay home with them and I do homeschool.
Well, you're working. You're working.
You're working your tail off. But you're not working in the business with him.
You're not in the business. What has his range of income been since getting involved with this partnership and this restaurant? Do you have a couple years of numbers for me, like what he's been making? Probably before taxes, probably around $35 to $40.
Oh, my gosh. It varies because there's also quarterly, but it does vary a lot yeah what's the high mark then what's the highest he's made um probably 40 okay listen to me okay now i'm good now i'm gonna go older brother and i may be old enough to be your dad for crying out loud um i would not be in any hurry to get in a house at all i would be saving okay so the advice doesn't on the baby steps, but I would just be renting until you guys figure out what the future looks like on this.
He's not making much money at all. He should go be a line cook in the kitchen and make more.
My goodness, he could make more working at Walmart. So I really don't want you thinking about a house until we see his income get a good bit.
I'd like to see him close to double that income and get some stability there, George. Because I just don't want you, here's what happens.
You get into a house that you think, okay, this is going to be right. And then something goes wrong and you guys are out of income for six months and he's starting from scratch.
That is scary business. And making 35 grand gross, it's going to be hard to afford any mortgage with that.
Yeah, you guys can't. Let alone rent.
And it's going to be a long haul on savings. So go ahead and settle into the long haul.
And you all need to figure out a better income situation if this thing doesn't start to turn. We got to delay the business stream and get the income is a crisis at this point.
So he either needs to opt out of this restaurant business and go get a different job. But now is not the time to start a business or buy a house.

So there's option C. We got to figure out the income first.
Thanks for the call, Casey. More of your calls coming up.
888-825-5225. This is The Ramsey Show.
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That's fieldofgreens.com slash Ramsey to save 20% on your first order. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show.
I'm George Campbell, joined by Ken Coleman. Open phones at 888-825-5225.
It's time for our Ramsey Show question of the day, brought to you by YReFi. YReFi refinances defaulted private student loans and builds a custom loan based on your ability to pay.
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All right, George, today's question comes from Ava in Montana. She writes, I'm 25 years old and my husband is 40.
Because of the age gap, I'm concerned about my financial state if my husband passes before I do. We both work in church ministry and earn $80,000 combined.
We have very little retirement or savings. I have a $350,000 whole life policy on him, and the premium is $200 a month.
My fear is that if he gets a term life policy, his health will decline later in life and prevent him from getting it renewed. I want a guarantee of long-term income, but at an affordable rate.
Is there anything available that could work in my situation? Well, George, you're Mr. Insurance.
It's what they call me, Ken. I mean, that's what we call you around the office.
You know, I see him across the way and I go, there he is, folks. Is that my personal brand? Mr.
Insurance. I do have a weird affinity for him.
So this is kind of your thing. I'll just say the whole life needs to be dealt with immediately, get rid of that, and get a good term life policy.
That's going to put him well into his 60s. And at that point, you guys should be fine if you do what we teach as it relates to investment.
George, tell her what she needs to know. So let me go through this systematically.
Number one, the $350,000 policy is not enough. You need 10 to 12 times your income.
And so if you're making 80K combined, maybe that means he's making 40 or 50. I don't know, but that would be closer to half a million, 600,000.
And on top of that, your whole life policy sucks. This is just making the salesperson a lot of money, and it's not helping you out.
By paying $200 a month, very little of that going to the actual policy, most of that into their pockets, some of it into a cash value portion, growing at an abysmal rate. And so I would surrender this policy after you get term life in place.
The next question, my fear is if he gets term life, his health will decline later in life. That's how it generally works.
As you get older, you get closer to something called death. Getting term life won't change that.
And here's the deal. Term life is for a specific term, 15 years, 20 years, 25 years.
But if you follow the Ramsey baby steps, by the time that policy lapses and it's over, you will be self-insured because you've been following the plan for 20 years, investing for 20 years, you paid off your house 20 years later. And so there's no fear that it's going to end.
And now you're out of the money. The goal is to get self-insured at that point.
And I'll give you a real life example. I'll use me me as an example.
Now I know that anybody that looks at me on the show, you know I'm a picture of health.

I mean, I get that.

And I look a lot younger than my 50 years.

I also understand that as well.

Especially if you see him on the pickleball court.

That's exactly right.

I'm very spry.

Very spry for a 50-year-old.

He is supple and nimble.

Supple and nimble.

Thank you very much.

But I've got three kids, and they're all teenagers, and a wife and two doodles. So a lot of responsibility on me, you know what I'm saying? And just to really give your real life thing here, I renewed mine, got a better deal because I'm, you know, was in tip-top shape when I got it probably, I don't know, eight years ago.
And so that's going to carry me through to where, again, Stacey would be fine if something happens. In fact, she'll be so fine, I'd be looking over my shoulder.
You know what I mean? I might have to sleep in another room, Dick Van Dyke style. Keep one eye open.
You know what I mean? However, and then the kids would be fine too. So that's all you need for his situation is to get that retirement going and really see that compound interest.
You need to call our friends at Zander Insurance because I've done this now and Zander, it's one stop shop. You call them, I want to get good term, they're going to take care of you.
They'll compare pricing with the top companies. Compare pricing, get you the best deals, and they guide you as to what you need.
We've worked with Zander forever. And so make that happen right now.
Absolutely. Right now, and it's so cheap.
I don't think people realize how affordable peace of mind is. Yeah, it's not going to be $200 a month.
Whole life is a ripoff. Generally, term life is a fraction of the price, and even at his age, it's going to be way more affordable.
So jump on to Xander.com or give them a call, 800-356-4282, and get term life in place today. If you're listening, whoever you are out there listening, if you don't have Term Life in place today, do it.
If anyone relies on your income, a spouse, kids, family, whoever, you need to get this in place. It's not a matter of if, but when.
You will eventually pass. I don't want to be the one to break it to you, and Term Life's not going to cause that to change.
No, it's not. It's just going to give your family peace of mind.
And and now you can eat as many biscuits as you would like george i'm good because you know your wife and daughter she is covered and stay-at-home spouses you need a term life policy as well because it would take mary poppins to replace all the things you do there you go there's my pitch for the day kend i had to say it i thought it was well played Well played. All right, on to Ashley in Austin, Texas.
What's going on, Ashley?

Hi.

Thank you so much. to say it.
I thought it was well played. Well played.
All right. On to Ashley in Austin, Texas.

What's going on, Ashley? Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call.
Sure. Yeah.
How can we help? It's right on it. My husband and I recently accumulated $3,000 in IRS debt starting this year.
$3,000? $3,000. Okay.
Which has added to the financial strain we already had, which now being our total debt, $62,000, excluding the mortgage. We've been following the snowball effect method for about a year now, but it feels like we're not making much progress.
we've considered, you know, changing, you know, our jobs, selling our house temporarily so we can rent and stay, or even relocating to our hometown for a more simpler, affordable lifestyle. My question is, what would you recommend as the best course of action for us? Well, what's keeping you guys from making progress? Just not enough income and you've cut everything you can cut and you just still don't have enough income to make progress? I think that we probably could cut maybe groceries.
That one, we haven't done the rice and beans like Dave Ramsey says. But we spend like $200 on groceries.

What's your income?

Together, take home after deductions.

Is that $4,400 together?

A year.

Together?

Sorry, a month.

$4,400 a month together. Are you guys doing any investing right now? We are not.
Okay. So that's just deductions, meaning like taxes, maybe health insurance, something like that? Correct.
Okay. So $4,400 a month, and you're trying to tackle, I mean, so we're talking about a take-home pay of roughly 50 grand a year, and you're trying to tackle 62.

And so you're going to need more income. You can slash expenses all you want.

That will help.

But income is the biggest factor here.

So with this move, so you gave Georgia and I, I think, three scenarios, right?

Correct.

Which one of those three scenarios allows you to cut expenses but also provides an opportunity for greater income? Both at the same time. Which one of the three options? Or however many you gave us.
Honestly, it may actually have to be a combination. A combination.
We work in a job that we have a set income that's our set income but we do get we work a mortgage company so we both um receive commission and bonuses on the side we just don't take that into account so anything we receive we're putting it straight to debt but i think think our stock is just not enough. What's your mortgage payment? $1,800.
Okay. So that's about, I mean, that's 40% of your income.
It's definitely high. That's hurting your ability to do this.
I don't think we're at a fire moment where we have to go sell the house tomorrow. No.
I would work on your income. And if nothing changes a year from now with your income, you might want to downsize to get out of this mess instead of it taking five years.
Because normally 18 to 24 months, that's how long it takes people to get out of debt. Some longer if they got a big hole and not a big shovel, and some less.
But for you guys, we need to see this income grow to about six figures to get this knocked out in two years or less. Yeah.
Rule of thumb for you, Ashley, and everybody listening or watching, I wouldn't make a major life change unless it has both short-term and long-term benefits. Okay.
Because there's a lot that goes into a major change. And major change, when it's good in the short-term and sets me up for what I want my long- term to look like.
That's a no-brainer. Outside of that, no, I'm going to stick and hustle and dig my way out, not just pull the parachute.
Does that make sense? Yeah. We need to expand the gap here, the margin between our income and our expenses, and I think both levers are going to be necessary.
That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. Thank you to my co-host, Ken Coleman, everyone in the booth, keeping the show afloat.
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I'm George Camel, joined by Ken Coleman, host of the new show, Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman.

Be sure to check that out on The Ramsey Network and on YouTube and podcast.

We're taking your calls at 888-825-5225.

You jump in.

We'll talk about your life and your money.

Brett's going to kick us off this hour in Sacramento. How can we help, Brett? Yeah, my question is simple.
888-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522-522- It's an easy choice for me. I'm going broker all the time because here's the deal.
With a captive agent, let's say your buddy who works for, you know, I don't know, rhymes with State Parm, I don't know, something like that. If they work for one of these companies, they can only sell insurance from that company.
Makes sense, right? Yeah. Whereas a broker isn't actually selling you the policy.
They're just connecting you and shopping the policies across the board from the top companies to get you the best deal. Does that make sense? So I don't fall for the marketing of these commercials.
I want to know who's giving me the coverage I need at the best price. That's all it is.
Super. Thank you for the information.
What kind of insurance are you looking at? Well, I have a car insurance has gone way up. I have a daughter driving now.
I also have an umbrella, a million dollar policy and a home insurance as well. Love it.
Well, you're doing all the right things. Yeah.
I mean, to me, it's all about price. I mean, you want to obviously go with a top rated company and, you know, we have all kinds of connections for you.
If you jump on RamseySolutions.com and click on Trusted Pros, we can connect you to the right insurance brokers in any area from home, auto health, whatever it is to help you sort that out. And that's, that's something I do.
And I, I actually reshop every year. I contact my insurance broker and I say, Hey, can you reshop to make sure I'm still getting the best deal? And they'll either say, yep, you're still the best deal.
I just reshopped it. Or actually we could save you a little bit of money here if we switch this policy over here.
And so having someone do that work for me saves time, hassle, and money. Anything to add, Ken? Or did I nail it? I just like how you did the little wordplay so as not to technically endorse somebody.
And now I want a chicken parm is the problem. Yeah.
Shouldn't have said that. Yeah.
I won't say which one, but I do have some of those commercials are really obnoxious and some are kind of funny oh the marketing's great they've gotten into a real it's reminds me of the days when i was growing up when it was like the beer commercials were really competing to be which ones were the funniest and i feel like we've got the big three insurance yeah they're all really pouring the money into celebs a lot of funny stuff trying to be funny yeah you got jake you got mayhem you got flow that's it you just nailed all three and it's uh i think that's my encore career ken if this doesn't work out i'm hoping someone will get me to be some kind of character you would be a great insurance salesman i appreciate that i think i could see you as a spokesperson doing that your little cute bomber jacket there thank you for saying you know because you're very trustworthy you know you're a small guy but you got a very very serious beard well i'm not intimidating i think that's part of what makes me uh you're definitely not intimidated okay neither one of us are i dug too far for the compliment i hit rock but no i'm not neither one of us are intimidating you run into us in an alley and you kind of take a sigh of relief. Yes, absolutely.
They're like, oh, there's two little guys right there. I'm the guy.
A guy walked up to me in Costco and he just said, hey, where's the paper towels? And I was aghast. I was like, does he think I work here? What were you wearing? Just normal.
I mean, an outfit like this. I didn't look like I worked at Costco.
He apparently thought you did. Well, of course, I knew where the paper towels were.
Let me walk you over there, sir, right this way. You were like, you instantly went to a spin, a point.
You gave him an aisle number. Absolutely.
I like that, George. So I'm unbearably helpful.
That's what my wife says at least. If you're ever looking for me at a Costco and you think it's me, first ask yourself, is he near a sample? Because if it looks like me and it's a sample line, it's me.
Stacey's doing the shopping. Ken's doing the sample.
That's exactly right. That's what's up.
That's how it goes. All right.
Let's head out to the phones. Brooke awaits in Syracuse.
What's going on, Brooke? Hi, guys. Happy Valentine's Day.
You as well. Happy Valentine's Day, Brooke.
You're the first one to say that to us. First one to say that to us.
We were starting to get our feelings hurt a little bit, but thank you. I am calling.
Me and my husband are on baby step two, and I'm having a conflict with the principles that you guys teach, I think, where it's either the order or I'm trying to get rid of a stupid car. And we have kind of like a substantial amount of money to us that's about to come,

and I really want to make sure that I apply it to the situation the best way that I possibly can.

How much?

$5,300.

Okay.

$5,300?

Yeah.

Okay.

And how much debt do you have?

So we have about $18,000 total. And then do you want me to break all of it down? Yeah, go from smallest to largest in the balances.
Okay. So we have a credit card that has $178 balance left, which I've been, that's my current project.
And then we have a care credit account that has two payments of $111 left on it. We have a dental loan situation that's $1,948.
We have a Discover card at $730. And then our biggest loan is a debt consolidation loan, which the stupid car is the collateral on, which is $15,535.
So what's the issue here? You get this $5,300, you know, I don't know, is it an inheritance settlement? It's actually money that we had. It was uninvested, sitting in an account for the past year and a half that we kind of forgot existed.
So you'll knock out your first four debts with that. The smallest credit card, the care credit, the dental, the other credit, the Discover card, all those get knocked out instantly.
And then we start chipping away at the remaining consolidation loan, right? That seems obvious to me, but the thing that catches me is that that $15,535 loan, the car that's tied up into it is worth about $10,000.

And then we also, we have one 19 month old and then next month we are having our son and we have two cars. We have the one that's tied up in this, which is stupid.
It's a Mustang convertible. And then we have a smart car and both of these cars are uniquely stupid to have two car seats in to the point where it's almost unsafe yeah uniquely unsuitable for a child i love your emotion on the mustang let me guess the mustang convertible is your hubby's car uh actually no um i got a really cool job and so i thought i could get a really cool car.
Good for you. You wanted your hair, you wanted to let your hair flow, huh? Come on on the way home.
Woo. Your little Tom Petty free falling.
Okay. Well, I misdiagnosed that one.
Yeah. You're underwater on the car.
So you need, you need the difference in cash or from a, you know, a loan from your credit union to make up the difference to get out of this. Is that what you're saying? And this money seems to be like the exact right amount.
And I've been praying about it. Like, what do I do? Oh, I see.
Because I feel like we need a new car for these two babies. You could use this money to get out of this car situation with the consolidation loan.
Right. If I take that money and if I can sell the car, then I can get out of that.
And that's also like that payment is more than our house payment. It's like $556 a month.
Then we only pay like $500 a month on our house. What's your income every month? So it would also eliminate our biggest expenses.
Yeah. So last year we made like $32,000, but my husband just had a job lost last year, which is why that was so low and he just started a new career.

So I'm not entirely sure what to expect.

Yeah, you guys need a lot more money coming in, Brooke.

And so I would hang on until baby's here and you and baby are home safe

before I let go of this five grand

because this might be the safety net you need

for any medical bills that come up.

But once that's done,

I would absolutely use this money

to get out of this car situation,

then hit the debt snowball on the remaining debts. Thanks for the call.
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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by Ken Coleman.
Open phones at 888-825-5225. Hey, you do not want to miss our two-night virtual event.
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Get yours today, ramsysolutions.com slash events, or click the link in the show notes if you're tuning in on podcast or YouTube. Sarah's up next in Rochester, New York.
How can we help, Sarah? Hi, how's it going? Thank you for taking my call. Absolutely.

So basically my issue is I am... Hi, how's it going? Thank you for taking my call.
Absolutely.

So basically my issue is I am trying to figure out how we can budget our finances because my husband is a blue-collar worker on a commission-based pay scale. and we don't have consistent income per year.

But last year he made made 161,000. The year before that he made 140,000 and the year before that he made 180,000.
So I would say an average of 160,000 over the last three years. Um, and I, we're looking into doing the baby steps and snowballing all of this fun stuff.
But right now, currently, with our mortgage at $4,120, we also have a consolidation loan.

Health insurance is $900 a month because through his work it's $1,300.

And the credit card debt totals $127,000. Goodness gracious.
What did you guys spend on these cards? Well, it's been a combination of, like, don't hurt me, but I put my husband's motorcycle on my card because we were trying to get the points. I know that's the worst answer you could possibly want to hear.
But so that's $18,000. And we have just multiple bills.
He has $72,000 in credit card debt. And I have not including that motorcycle.
It's like $34,000. I put groceries on it.
I've put property taxes on it because our personal property tax... So where is your actual income going if you're using the car to fund your life? You guys make great money.
I know. And that's the problem is it just disappears.
We have the total debt that's going out per month for all of our payments is $9,600. $9,600? Does that include the mortgage? Yes.
Goodness gracious. So your average take-home pay? I mean, is it $10,000 a month? $8,000 a month? Well, I'm guessing it's

like $10,000 a month, $8,000 a month? Well, I'm guessing it's like closer to $13,000 because that's the average though. That's the problem.
Some months we'll have fantastic months and some months we don't. So like, for instance, if he has a bad couple of weeks or if he took vacation, then he gets his hourly pay.

Let me make this clear.

There are no vacations in your near future.

Why is that motorcycle not sold?

We went nowhere.

You need to be going to work.

You don't need to be staying home at all.

Well, right.

Yeah.

Where is this motorcycle?

Where is it? It's in the garage. Why is it not sold yesterday? That's the source of...
See, here's the deal, Sarah. I'm listening to this, and George will keep coaching you, but I'm jumping in.
I'm getting fired up on your behalf. I like how fired up you're getting, George.
It's hard to tell between when you're calm and when you're fired up, so it's really got to be discerning. Well, I'm often irritable.
You are. But what's going on here is not the irregular income.
You're kind of presented this call as, my husband's got an irregular income. By the way, George and I do as well.
So you're actually talking to two people that this is how we are paid as well. And so your issue is not that.
Your issue is you're overspending. You're not living within the means, whether it's regular or irregular.
That's the problem. And so what happens is because you put all this stuff that you couldn't afford on credit and you got yourself in so much debt, the irregular income makes it even more stressful than it would be if you had it coming in every month.
So I just want to make sure that you are acknowledging this

or Hubs needs to acknowledge this

because if he's holding up the sale of the Harley,

then you guys got to have a real sit down here and go,

this has got to stop.

But the irregular income is not your issue.

It's the behavior.

And so you know-

And to George's point, you better go make some more right now.

Sorry, George.

No, but on a bad month, let's say it's 10 grand.

So we know that. On a great month, it might be 15 grand right right right so it's not zero so we can't go well we can't do a budget because it's irregular what you guys need to do is cut up the cards yesterday freeze your credit completely close all the accounts start doing the debt snowball and sell everything you can in sight while also working twice as much as you are There it is.
Right. Well, I've run out of children to sell, but I definitely would like to do the snowball.
But is there a way to negotiate with the creditors to help with the interest rate? You can try. I don't want to run away from this debt.
You can call every creditor and say, hey, listen, we're trying to pay you back. This interest is killing us.
Would you be willing to lower it? But even that's a secondary action. You didn't even hear anything George said.
I did. I did.
We need to cut up all of our cards. I know.
But I'm looking forward from here. If we do all of these things, I just want to see.
Sure. Call them.
We could be paying for 120 years. Right.
But here, what's the motorcycle payment every month? 360. Boom.
So tomorrow you could free up 360 bucks if you get rid of that thing. Are you underwater on it? I don't know.
I have not checked the resale value of it at this point. Is Hubs willing to sell this or is he fighting it? He said like it was a sore spot, like it was not going to go away.
Well, this could be a totally different issue too. He works really hard and he doesn't.
I think he works too hard to be this broke. He works hard to finish that sentence.
I want to hear this. He works really hard.
Keep going. I know.
Well, and I don't want to take something that he loves so much. He absolutely loves it.
He's not going to love anything. I don't care how great your toys are.
When you're miserable underwater with debt, you don't love anything. Right.
True. And don't you think the stress of having to work this hard and pay off all this debt is not worth the joy of the motorcycle that we can go buy once we're debt-free? Right.
Agreed. I mean, this is like a child who's unwilling to let go of their toy.
I know. It's not grandpappy's from World War II.
This isn't sentimental. Right.
True. So I just feel like we need to make some sacrifices here, and you're looking for solutions that are shortcuts that don't involve us having to change our lifestyle.
It's been out of control for so long that you guys don't know another life. Right.
And that's why cutting off all the, you can't go into credit card debt if you don't have a credit card. That's what I found.
That's the best way to address the issue. So cutting up these cards, getting over the motorcycle, you need some instant relief right now and it's not going to come from a debt repayment company or another consolidation loan or adding more debt.
You've got to start cutting. And so you've got to have a come to Jesus moment with your husband tonight and say, this is not okay.
Why are we living like this? We make $180,000. How are we in crippling debt? Right.
And so is your husband on board for this? It sounds like you're wanting to make a change and you're going, hey, it's a hard sell because he's a hard worker. I don't want to make him sacrifice anymore.
He is on board. I am the type of person, I'm a people pleaser and I want him to be happy.
And I'm equating his happiness with his motorcycle. Let me ask you a quick question.
Five second answer or less.

How happy would he be if all that debt went away tonight?

Oh, world's happier.

Well, then why don't we aim on that people pleaser?

Happiness is not in stuff.

You can find happiness in financial peace

because of a lack of stress,

but it's not going to come from riding that motorcycle

while you're in crippling debt,

stressed out, affecting your marriage

and your financial future.

I'm going to send you guys Financial Peace University

Thank you. It's not going to come from riding that motorcycle while you're in crippling debt, stressed out, affecting your marriage and your financial future.
I'm going to send you guys Financial Peace University because I want to see you in. I think you need some fire under your butt, and I think Dave and crew can help if you watch all nine lessons.
So hang on the lines here. We're going to send you guys Financial Peace University as a Valentine's gift on us.
This is The Ramsey Show. All right, Dave, you have some strong opinions.
Possibly, yeah. I think so.
Okay, because you really prefer credit unions over big banks. So why is that? Well, credit unions, for one thing, are non-profit, which means that the members, the customers own the credit union.
So any profits that the credit union makes goes back into customer pricing. So you get better interest rate on savings, cheaper checking, and so on, that kind of thing.
But what's more important than that, though, is the fact that the customer is the owner changes the spirit on the credit union. So I find very few credit unions that aren't very customer-centric.
Yes. Well, and I think we have found one that is incredible, and that's Fairwinds.
They are an incredible credit union that is really out with the heart to help the customer. You know, that's why we're partnering with them, because they've got a scope to be able to handle the Ramsey audience, and they're the right kind of people with the right kind of values.
And they've done a really, really good job with customer service. And the deals that they're offering, the Ramsey tribe is incredible.
Yeah, absolutely. And you're right, their customer service is unbelievable.
Winston and I just signed up, and we got an account. And I'm not kidding.
It took less than five minutes. It was so user-friendly.
The step-by-step approach was unbelievable. And then the next day, my phone rings and it says Fairwinds on my phone.
So I answered it and talked to someone there. And they said, yeah, they give calls to every new customer.
And so again, they just really care about your experience. And I so, so appreciate that.
So again, you guys, I know it can be a pain to switch banks or to open up new accounts, but Fairwinds, again, they make it so easy. Plus, anything that you can do at a traditional branch, you can do with them at fairwinds.org or on their app, and you'll have free access to over 33,000 ATMs.
Hey, you guys know how much I hate banks in general, and so for me to do this is a big deal. Talk to our friends at Fairwinds and check out the combined checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsey tribe.
You guys, it's incredible. Yeah, you guys, it's so easy to join Fairwinds no matter where you live.
So go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey to learn more. That's F-A-I-R-W-I-N-D-S dot org slash Ramsey.
Hey guys, good news. Presale is on now for my new book, Build a Business You Love.
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Pre-order today. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show.
I'm George Camel joined by Ken Coleman and we're also joined by a lovely couple on the debt-free stage. It's Brian and Taylor.
How are you guys doing? Good. You? Amazing.
I mean, you guys are better than you deserve today on the debt-free stage. Where are you from? Greeley, Colorado.
Wonderful. How much do you guys pay off? We started out in 2021 with $102,361.45 in debt.
Wow. Since then, we just started Ramsey in October of 2023, and we paid off in the last 15 months, we paid off the remaining $38,727.90.
Whoa. Okay.
So how long did this full journey take to pay off the 102102? Go ahead. Since May of 2021.
Wow.

That's incredible.

So how many months is that?

Do the math with me here.

Almost.

Almost four years?

Yes.

Okay.

Just shy of four years.

But in 15 months was the almost-

Was the big one.

Like you really went gun ho.

Yes.

Okay.

And what's the range of income during that time?

We started out at $140,000 and then we ended up at about $158 wow what do y'all do i'm a truck driver and i do our international documentation for uh jbs cool all right very nice so tell us about this 102 000 what kind of debt was this it was everything um we had uh credit card debt student loan debt and um i'm blanking i am service cars you're doing great by the way you're okay i mean look at us i mean we don't scare anybody so just deep breath you're gonna be fine watch it or i will come take your job now i'm scared now i'm nervous reverse intimidation just flipped it on me we had it all so when we started this journey, it was hard because in 2021, we had barely just been married. We've only been together for six years.
And between us, we have seven kids. And so a combo marriage and we both brought debt to the table.
And then we fought a lot. It was many, many arguments, many tears, many slammed doors in the house.
And then it was in the summer of 2021, I started listening to Ramsey. And after about two months, I went home.
And when I was excited and I told Brian, I said, hey, we need to do this. You need to start listening to these shows.
And he looked at me. He goes, I'm not going to do MLM.
I said, it's not multiple. That's hilarious.
That's good. I said, no, this is you buckling down and paying off your debt.
And so I wasn't sure how to approach this because money was a huge argument for us. And we were both embarrassed.
We were both frustrated. And so we didn't know how to communicate.
So I reached out to Andy Thiel, who was from our financial advisor, and I asked him to come to the house one day. And so he came over and he sat down and we were talking numbers.
So Brian said, no, I'm not gonna sit here and talk. And so I sat there with Andy and I slid a piece of paper across the table and I said, well, here's our debt, here's our income, here's our age, where will we be at retirement? And he kind of looked at me dumbfounded when he looked at the number and he didn't say anything, he got up and left.
And about a week and a half later, he called back and he says, I have some charts and graphs and I have some numbers. I said, can I get you and your husband to sit down? So he came back to the house, and again, I said, Brian, would you come sit down? And Brian's like, ugh, you know, but he did.
He came over. He stood next to me.
He wouldn't sit. And then when Andy brought out the charts and graphs, he goes, I don't, he goes, when I left your house, he goes, it was very dismal.
He goes, I was nervous for you guys because of where you're at with your age and what your debt was. And, you know, he didn't see how we were going to get out of this.
And he goes, I don't know what your plan is. He goes, but what you have shown me, and he slid the charts, the grass over.
He goes, you guys will be self-made millionaires at retirement. And right now, Brian is 55 and I am 50.
No, he's 57 and I'm 50. 55 sounds better.
I'm 54. I'm nervous.
I'm flubbing up here. You're doing great.
Wow. So where are you guys at now?

Well, we are completely debt-free.

We're on Baby Steps 3.

Except the house.

Except the house.

That's true.

And on track to become Baby Steps Millionaires by retirement.

Yeah.

Even after all of that.

So what encouragement to anyone listening who's gone, wait, it's too late for me.

Well, we have Brian and Taylor here telling you that even if you get a, quote, late start

in your 50s, you can still turn this around and retire with dignity yeah what a beautiful picture yeah and brian what got you were the reluctant spouse you heard ramsey way and all you heard was mary k and not the same right so what got you to actually make that turn and go all right fine i'll do this just looking back at what i hadn't done and what i did do was what was wrong and what I should be doing for my family and my wife. So was it really that kind of like you didn't want to look in your own mirror and go, oh, I'm part of this problem.
So was that why you were shutting down? Right. Yeah.
I was embarrassed. You know, I should have done better.
And then Taylor was a numbers person and she's an ex--teacher and so i kind of learned from her and so you had to let go of your own baggage and shame and go all right i'm part of this but i got to do something about it if i'm the problem i'm the solution yep all right so here's what i want to know so after the charts and graphs kitchen moment we'll call it uh what did it look like going forward how committed were you what was the most extreme thing you did give us give some people out there that are listening and watching give them something to hold on to what'd you do well i made up a uh graph and um it's it's one of those little thermometers and i put it on the wall right outside of our bedroom door so we were forced to walk past it every day to see what our actual debt value was and then we filled it in um colored it in as we went and you know paid off the debt but that first month um when i sat down i because it's it's a hard thing to do with that every dollar app it took me the three months to really that's right get it figured out it's a stumbling um project but um that first month i looked at him and i said we spend way too much eating out and so um we did a 30-day challenge and whoo that was a hard one no eating out for 30 days no eating out and so then was there any rice or beans a lot of home cooking and food beans yes but um when we got done you know we both he was like well i want to be able to have some enjoyment and i said well let's just do two two dates a month where we have one with the family and then just one with us. And we were going to put that in the budget, which I did, but we didn't use it because we realized, you know, how much money it was costing to eat out.
So we just kind of quit everything altogether. And this is our first trip since we started this.
This is the first. That's sweet.
We're all out on this. So it's.
Did you stay at a decent hotel? did. That's one you guys recommended, actually.
Oh, good. I didn't know we were in the hotel recommendation business.
No one consulted me. I'd like to see what has been published.
Because I got an opinion on hotels. I'm what they call bougie, I'm told.
I love that about you. I don't know what it means, but I'm told that's what I am.
Can I give a shout out to all of our kids? Please. Please do.
All seven of them. please please do okay all seven of them here we go okay so they range from 33 down to 15.
wow so we have brianna ian tyler brandon aaron claire and tyler and yes we have two tylers one from each of us but our kids are our motivator too because we realize looking back both of us have lived paycheck to paycheck and it's been a very it's a hard, and we don't want our kids to follow in that path. So the two living at home are the two youngest ones, Claire and Tyler, and they've watched our struggles, and they've felt the heartaches that we've been going through as well.
That's amazing. Change that family tree.
Yeah. Absolutely.
What's next for you guys? You're on baby step three, and now we're going to be investing for the future. Has your financial advisor been cheering you on? Any other cheerleaders in your life? My mom was probably my biggest one.
And then we were cheerleaders for each other. But my mom, she checked in quite often and she would send text messages.
And I'd send her pictures of the graph and she was the one that was probably the biggest one for me. That's awesome.
What's the 30 second encouragement you would give to someone who might be where you guys were in your 50s gone, gosh, we're $100,000 in consumer debt. We're so far behind in retirement.
We're never going to be able to do this. Be smart.
Sit down with the financial. The thing that woke me up was looking at what money we didn't have and realizing how far in debt we were.
And we made a big mistake. We pulled out 70,000 out of our retirement as a down payment on our house before Ramsey and realized that was probably one of the biggest mistakes we ever made because that's like a $430,000 mistake.
But we just weren't set up for retirement at the time and now we're on track. That's incredible.
Well, hey, we've got a little parting gift for you for coming by. We've got two one-year subscriptions to everyDollar.
That was the tool that helped you after three months of struggling through it, figuring it out. It's what helped you guys get debt-free.
So feel free to use that or pass it on to someone to get their journey started. We are so pumped for you guys.
All right, you ready to do this? Yes. We've got Brian and Taylor from the Denver, Colorado area.
$102,000 paid off. Credit cards, student cards student loans car loans it's all gone they

did it in under 40 years with the last chunk getting knocked out fast in 15 months making

140 to 158 count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three two one we are free!

That's special.

From the kitchen fights

to a debt-free life. That's special.

From the kitchen fights to a debt-free life.

On Valentine's Day, no less.

A debt-free screen.

The romance is in the air.

Is there anything more romantic than fiscal responsibility?

I don't know.

I've got to believe Cupid was debt-free.

You've got to be.

I almost said Cupid.

There can't be much money in that matchmaking.

How's he pay for those arrows? We love see it this is the ramsey show i talk to people every day who want to know how to do better in two areas money and relationships that's why i'm pumped to bring the money and relationships tour to a city near you join me and dr john deloney for a night that will challenge the way you think about this stuff and possibly change how you live forever. Starting April 21st, we'll be in Louisville, then on to Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth, and Kansas City.
Grab your tickets at ramsaysolutions.com slash tour before they're gone. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show.
I'm George Camel joined by Ken Coleman. Hey, this is the last segment of this hour, and if you want to check the rest of the show out, you got to get the Ramsey Network app.
It's the only place to get full episodes of The Ramsey Show. You can download the Ramsey Network app for free.
Just use the link in the show notes or just search Ramsey Network in your app store. For everyone listening on radio, stay tuned.
The show will continue as programmed, but everyone else don't miss out. It's happening in the app.
Michael in New York is up next. What's going on, Michael? Hey, how are you? Thank you for taking my call.
Absolutely. How can Ken and I help? Sure.
So it's really just general investment advice and guidance. I got married a few months ago.
Congrats. And thank God we got, thank you.
We got a lot of money in wedding gifts. You know, we currently don't have any debt, but we have like $45,000 sitting in our checking account, which is obviously ridiculous.
That's amazing. Yeah, thank you.
I just wanted advice on, you know, where you would put it and also just some, also just some passive investing with my income. Okay, so what is your household income? It's about $120,000.
Awesome. And you said you guys are debt-free.
Do you have an emergency fund and savings outside of the 45, or is that kind of everything? No, that's everything. Okay, so that's all the money to your name.
That's Liquid. And what would a month of expenses look like for you guys right now as a married couple? Have you kind of figured out finances yet? Not so much.
Our rent is about $2,400. Utilities another $300.
I own my car. It's probably around $3,500 altogether a month.
Does that include food, insurance, everything? Yeah, maybe a little more, $3,800. Okay.
So let's call it $4,000 is one month of expenses. Yeah.
And we recommend three to six months of expenses in a fully funded emergency fund. So for you guys, we can call that $15,000 or $20,000.
Okay. So let's say you kept $20,000 aside as your emergency fund.
Label it emergency fund. Do not touch it unless there's a true emergency.
And then the other $25,000, now we're talking. Now we can use this money towards something.
I'm not sure if it should go toward investments yet. Let's dig in a little more.
Are you guys renting right now? Yes, we are. Okay.
And you rent to $2,400 a month. So at this stage of the game, once you set that money aside today, you'll be in baby step four, five, and six.
And so I would be working on investing 15% of your household income. So for you guys, that would look a lot like, what's that per month, Ken? Do the math for me here.
$120. What are you doing? Hit me again.
thinking about 18 grand a year yeah so basically 1500 bucks a month from your future income should be going toward investing so that 20k might become a starter down payment fund for you guys that's what I would you recommend keeping that in cash I would keep if this is a shorter term goal let's say in the next few years I would just keep it in a high yield savings account. I would not keep it in cash.
You got to at least keep up with inflation and let this money grow for you. And so a high yield savings account is the place I would store any short term savings goals, any emergency fund.
Okay. And do you have any recommendations for high yield savings? Absolutely.
Yeah, you can check out Laurel Road is one that has been a great partner for my YouTube channel, laurelroad.com slash George. And then we've got Fairwinds as well.
That's been a great partner on the Ramsey Show. They have a great checking and savings bundle.
So there's a lot of options out there. And here's what I wouldn't do.
I wouldn't go rate climbing. People will try to go, well, I can get 3.8% over here, but now it's three.
The rates are changing all the time, and they've been going down. And so don't worry as much about that.
Just don't leave it in a boring old checking account or a regular traditional savings account. That's the key.
And then beyond that, start investing in your retirement plans you have through your employer. You got a 401k or something equivalent? No, unfortunately, my employer doesn't give me that.
Okay, you're not self-employedemployed though your employer just doesn't have any retirement options yeah okay so your next best bet would be something called an ira and that's something you can open without having an employer as long as you have earned income you can open up an ira and there's a roth version all that means is you're paying the taxes now you're not going to get a deduction tax time, but that money will then grow tax-free and you can withdraw it tax-free come retirement. Wow.
So you could fund that. It's about $7,000 a year is the max contribution for this year.
And so you and your wife could both do one of those and that would get you real close to that 15% goal. Right.
Amazing. Absolutely.
And I'm going to send you as a newlywed gift a copy of my book Breaking Free from Broke that walks you through all of this even on the wealth side. There's an investment traps chapter or wealth is patience chapter that will really help you guys navigate all of this.
And I think that'll be a great start. 21 to be making six figures debt free? Yeah, it's great.
And I was only going to add one thing, Michael, is that don't not not that I'm thinking you're going to, but I think this is the human condition. I agree 100% that I would put the $20,000, the additional after he's done everything else, the emergency fund.
Don't let that burn a hole in your pocket. And that's an old phrase.
When I was a kid, your grandfather would give you 50 cents or something, and then don't let it burn a hole in your pocket, which, you know, like, what does that mean? It means, you know, hang on to it. Don't spend it right away.
And I think for a young couple, certainly this young, you get 20 grand there. There's a lot of people that will talk them into using the 20 grand right now to get in a house, as opposed to be patient, let that 20 grand be an awesome start,

and really build a really big down payment.

Oh, absolutely.

They're in the New York City area.

Exactly.

Which means 20 grand is not a suitable down payment.

But you know what I'm talking about.

There will be no shortage of people that will go,

oh, take the 20 grand and only put this in small.

And then, no, no, no, sit tight on that 20. Build on that 20 would be my advice.
Absolutely. I love it.
Great call, Michael. Thank you.
Paige is in Oklahoma City up next. How can we help, Paige? Hi, how are you guys today? Doing great.
What's going on? I'll just get right to my question. I inherited a home free and clear about three years ago.
I was wondering if we should sell it and put that towards our mortgage or keep it as an investment property. Oh, this is a fun one.
I like this. Tell us more.
Tell us how much rent it's, how much profit it is spitting off in rental or have you not started renting it yet? It's been rented with a tenant for about a year and a half. She's great on time every single month, but she just gave us notice that she would probably be moving out in June.
Okay. And it's paid for, correct? Yes.
So what were you making in a year for renting that? Roughly $10,000 to $12,000 after taxes. Okay.
And what's it worth? So it probably would go for about 180. Okay.
And what's left on your mortgage? 300. So you could throw the proceeds of the home sale if you did sell it toward the mortgage, knocking it basically in half? Yes.

That's definitely, I mean, the fact that you're even calling about this makes me think you don't really want to be in the landlord business. I mean, we, it hasn't been an issue.
We're just kind of laying options. We're almost done with Baby Step 2 and we'll have Baby Step 3 done by May.
So we're just kind of looking ahead. So just trying to see if that was probably a better investment or just keeping it as a rental.
I'll tell you what I would do if I were you. Because the house is not worth an enormous amount, it's not going to – I mean, how much more is it going to keep going up over 10 years, George? You know what I mean? And what's your household income, Paige? Yeah.
We make about $110. Okay.
So losing $10,000 in rental income is not going to make or break your budget. Right.
It was a small part of your income anyway. And they're not keeping $10,000 because you guys got expenses on that house.
So for those reasons, George, for those reasons, Paige, I, if I were you, would sell the house and knock that mortgage of your actual home in half. I think that's going to put you further ahead financially than actually keeping the house i just don't see that that house is worth that much long term versus your current home and your current homes were double and and and you're going to be able to to roll that you know in time like george has done george whitney have done that recently yeah and so i i that's what i do if I were you.
I'd sell the rental and put it all towards your current home. Okay.
All right. All right.
Good luck. This is an exciting time.
I assume you agree with that. I got out in front of the money guy.
You know, Dave loves real estate. He'd probably just hang on to it because he loves real estate and he's got lots of tenants and lots of properties, but it's not a like everyone needs to own property and everyone needs to have investment property.
You could take that 180 grand, put it in an investment account, and you can make the same amount you're making from your renter just without the hassle. And so there's no one way to do this.
And I like her plan of getting rid of the primary mortgage, freeing up the mortgage payment, investing that, and then later on they can always save up and pay for an investment property with cash. Yep.
But great question. All right.
That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.

If you want to catch more of it, we're still sticking around. You got to go to the Ramsey Network app to get it.
We'll see you next time.