The Key to Transformation Is Admitting You Have a Problem

Speaker 1 This is the Ramsey Show, America. It's where we help you win with your money, win in your profession, and win with your relationships.
Alongside the fabulous Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman.

Speaker 1 Phone number to jump in, 888-825-5225. Triple eight eight two five two two five you ready to roll well that's a rumble let's go eli is joining us in dallas texas eli how can we help

Speaker 3 how are you doing guys thank you for taking my call um

Speaker 3 man i'm not even quite sure where to begin but i seem to have a ginormous problem um handling my finances I am 27 years old with a wife and two kids, and I have one underway in July.

Speaker 3 and I'm just kind of like up to my throat in stress on trying to figure out what I got to do to stay the course in trying to be debt-free. I've been a part of the show for about six months now.

Speaker 3 I even bought Dave Ramsey's the total money makeover

Speaker 3 and everything was going well. I had baby steps one, working into two.
I had everything listed from smallest to largest, paying the smallest stuff off.

Speaker 3 And then right around the holidays i kind of just fell off a cliff started buying things i didn't need

Speaker 3 and um just recently i got into a twenty one hundred dollar purchase of headphones what and

Speaker 1 what do you mean you got into it

Speaker 3 I uh it did not take very much convincing, to be truthfully honest.

Speaker 3 I love music and stuff like that, so it didn't take much convincing for me to buy them.

Speaker 3 I was leading emotionally rather than thinking rationally. And that's when I kind of realized I've got a problem and I just, I cannot,

Speaker 3 I just, I can't get out of it.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 So let me ask a quick question to Eli on this, because I love how vulnerable you're being.

Speaker 1 And I think you've nailed it. I think you've diagnosed what's going on that you can't do this on your own.
And so we're going to walk with you on this call.

Speaker 1 But before we dive in deeper, I'm just curious if you'd be willing to share from your gut, what do you think is the emotion that's driving all these impulse purchases for you? What do you think it is?

Speaker 1 How would you describe it?

Speaker 3 I believe desire was probably the best thing I can come up with. Just the sheer desire of wanting to get, you know, anything that I've always wanted.

Speaker 1 Stop letting get when I was growing up. Stop.
There it is. So now we're going to go deeper for a second.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 You said desire, but it's actually something else. What do you think it is based on the fact that you didn't have it when you were a kid and now you want it? What is the deeper emotion?

Speaker 1 It's deeper than desire. What's driving the desire to get stuff? What do you think?

Speaker 1 I don't know, David. Yeah, you do.
You just took us there. Go back to your childhood.
What was your childhood like?

Speaker 3 Childhood was in, well, came from a family of divorced parents,

Speaker 3 thrusted very quickly into

Speaker 3 a different study with my stepfather. And

Speaker 3 just money was always tight going up. Just not having enough money.

Speaker 1 Didn't have much, did you?

Speaker 3 No, no, no. Very strict upbringing and nothing wrong with that, of course.

Speaker 3 It wasn't until I went to Austin for culinary arts for college that I realized that I was free and I can make any and all decisions.

Speaker 3 And I've kind of been carrying that philosophy for the better part of the last 10 years.

Speaker 1 But can I tell you something, Eli?

Speaker 1 You're free philosophically. You're not free emotionally.

Speaker 1 You're still that little boy who was afraid he was never going to get anything nice like all of his other friends. And so now you're an adult and you're afraid if you don't buy these things

Speaker 1 that you are that little boy who didn't have anything. And I'm telling you, there's something there.
Now,

Speaker 1 again, I don't want to make the whole call about this, Jade, but I... I just felt like when somebody presents as,

Speaker 1 I can't do anything about this. I think that's right.

Speaker 1 By the way, if you have ever had a friend who's an alcoholic or if you go through the 12 steps or you're familiar with the 12 steps, the key to transformation is to get to a point where you say, I can't do this on my own.

Speaker 1 I need help. And he presented that way, and I think that's great.
But I also wanted him to see when there's an impulse, the impulse is just the reaction.

Speaker 1 And you've got to dig deep and go, what is the underlying issue that is making it so easy for him to be talked into $2,100 headphones when he's broke? Absolutely. And that's real.

Speaker 1 And Eli, I'm not saying that to put shame on you.

Speaker 1 I'm actually hoping to help you see something because I think you can recover from this, but not until you deal with the emotion that is driving the impulse. I agree with Ken.

Speaker 2 I agree with Ken 100%. Matter of fact, if I were you, I'd probably jump into some counseling and get to the bottom of that just because Ken is so right.

Speaker 2 What we've experienced in our past 100% informs how we view money, money, how we spend our money, what we think we're entitled to with our money, what makes us feel uncomfortable with our money.

Speaker 2 All of that is driven by what our relationships have been with money, whether it's from childhood, with our ex-wife, our ex-spouse, whatever it was, right? That all plays into it.

Speaker 2 The cute answer that I would give you for this moment, because I'm, you know, I wish I were more of a therapist in that area, but I'm not.

Speaker 2 But the cute answer is you've got to get to the point where you're sacrificing, you're not sacrificing what you want most for what you want right now. Because

Speaker 2 what you want right now is the headphones. What I want right now is New Jordans.
What I want, right? There's this thing that we're like, I want this now.

Speaker 2 But what you want most is what you started out on this journey, which is to find financial peace for your family. Right.

Speaker 2 And so it's in those moments that you've got to kind of tie back to, okay, what it, what, why did I start this journey? What is it that I'm truly trying to accomplish?

Speaker 2 And if I can just keep on the straight and narrow, there will become a time where you can buy the the headphones or you can buy some of the things that you want to do. So

Speaker 2 that's the cute answer. The truth is, you're really struggling to do that right now in this moment.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but I thought you were setting him up beautifully. Eli, Jay just nailed this.
I mean, you have to replace the $2,100 headphones with what do you want your life to look like 20 years from now?

Speaker 1 That's, she's spot on. What do you want for your kids? And so all of a sudden, you start to go, ooh, I want that and I really want that.
You know, it's the trade-off. So, how much debt do you have?

Speaker 3 Me personally, I have about $24,000 in total debt, about

Speaker 3 $2,500 in credit cards, $7,000 is in purchase finances,

Speaker 3 $4,000 to $5,000 in student loan,

Speaker 3 and then the rest is personal loans.

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 1 where did the $2,100 headphones go? Did they go on a credit card?

Speaker 3 They went through a firm.

Speaker 1 A firm?

Speaker 1 Oh, that's like buy now, pay later.

Speaker 3 Buy now, pay later, yes, correct? Like Carna and stuff.

Speaker 1 Can you sell those?

Speaker 3 Probably more than likely so.

Speaker 1 That ain't my world.

Speaker 2 I mean, you can sell anything.

Speaker 1 You sell anything. I should have said, can you sell those and get a good chunk for, or do they devalue quickly?

Speaker 2 If they're in good shape, I'm sure you could sell them. You can sell them on marketplace or put them somewhere.

Speaker 1 I'd start there. Yeah.
I'd like to. You start selling all the stuff you've bought that you can still sell

Speaker 3 okay i got you i do believe i'd go back i do believe i have a 30-day warranty of some sort where i can exchange them or return them uh for a refund but i'd have to double check on that just to make sure that it's accurate and let me hit you with something else eli i've heard dr john deloney say this and it's so true your stuff talks to you Your stuff, it does.

Speaker 2 It talks to you. And I bet you when you walk by it, because you've said what it is that you truly want, let your stuff talk to you and it talk you out of doing this again.

Speaker 2 Because I bet when you walk by those headphones, they're like, you said you were going to make things right with your family, right?

Speaker 2 When you walk by those purchases, they're telling you everything that you said you were going to do.

Speaker 2 So by you getting rid of them, selling them off, and let it be a reminder of what you said you wanted to do and start surrounding yourself with things that are telling you the right thing.

Speaker 1 Good stuff. Thanks for the call, Elive.
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Speaker 1 The Ramsey Show continues. I'm Ken Coleman.
Jade Warshaw is with me. 888-825-5225 is the phone number.
Triple 8-825-5225. Syracuse, New York is where we go next.
Kelly is there.

Speaker 1 Kelly, how can we help?

Speaker 3 Hi, thank you for taking my call.

Speaker 1 Sure, what's going on?

Speaker 3 My question today is I'm trying to figure out what to do with my credit card debt.

Speaker 3 I have no other debt other than credit card debt. I fell on hard times with work

Speaker 3 last year, and I've been having a tough time actually landing a job since then. Still working at it, but it's getting harder in the field that I'm in.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 I have some business credit cards and some personal credit cards. My business credit cards have been charged off as of last month.
My personal credit cards have been current.

Speaker 3 I've been able to maintain those

Speaker 3 with with the little bit of savings that I had left with the hopes that I was going to get a job soon, but it hasn't happened yet.

Speaker 3 So I'm wondering what to do with my personal credit as it's getting harder to pay those balances and the minimum payment.

Speaker 2 How much is it? How much is the personal credit card debt?

Speaker 3 The personal credit card debt is $36,000. Okay.
And the business credit cards are $23,000.

Speaker 1 What kind of business was it?

Speaker 3 It's an IT consulting business.

Speaker 2 Okay. And are you still doing that or you've moved on?

Speaker 3 I'm still doing it because that's what I've just been doing for many years

Speaker 3 and just really trying to find something where I can make the money that I was making before

Speaker 1 I got laid off.

Speaker 2 So how long were you laid off? Because, I mean, this is almost $60,000 of credit card debt. That's nothing to sneeze at.

Speaker 2 Like, when you say fell on hard times, I want to understand more about that and how long that period lasted so that I can understand more about your habits and your mindset around money and debt.

Speaker 1 And also tell us how much you were making.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 3 Well, my credit card debt racked up really over just maintaining regular monthly bills, which aren't really high. They are roughly about $1,000

Speaker 1 per month.

Speaker 1 Answer Jade's question.

Speaker 2 How long?

Speaker 1 Because that means if it was only $1,000, that means we spent 36 months

Speaker 1 almost a year.

Speaker 3 Almost a year.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 So what

Speaker 1 Okay, so how much were you real quick? How much were you making beforehand?

Speaker 3 Beforehand, I was making about $10,000 a month.

Speaker 1 You make about $120,000.

Speaker 1 Go ahead. Go ahead.

Speaker 3 I was going to say it's not $120,000 because I'm a consultant, so it's not consistent throughout the year.

Speaker 2 Okay, how many months of the year do you make? I mean, if you say to me, hey, I make $120,000 a year, yeah, it can fluctuate, but you still made $120,000 in the year.

Speaker 3 Well, it can go from anywhere from, you can be unemployed with what I do anywhere from three to six months. If you get a year, then that's nice.

Speaker 1 Right. Right.
Anywhere from three to six months.

Speaker 2 Right. I hear what you're saying, but it's still $120,000.

Speaker 2 So what that tells me is on the windfall months, the months that you just had made bank, instead of saying, okay, I've got to be smart and put this aside and this is what I'm living off of for the next couple of months.

Speaker 2 That tells me that that money went somewhere. Where did it go? Because you also told me that it only takes $1,000 to make your household run, which I do have questions about that.

Speaker 2 But do you see, I'm not trying to take you to task, but there's holes in the story and I need to understand it so that I can help you best.

Speaker 2 Because what's coming off, the way it's coming off is that you're not working much.

Speaker 2 That's what the way it's coming off. And I want to find out why that is because even if it's not an IT, there's plenty of opportunities and King can get into that that we could do throughout the year.

Speaker 2 And so I really want to highlight that behavior for you so that you never do that again. Does that make sense? It's not for me to like make you feel bad.
I just want you to know, hey,

Speaker 2 there's a moment. It's like you got to know when to hold them and when to fold them.
Like there's a moment that you get to a threshold that you go, I can't keep doing this. I got to go work.

Speaker 2 I got to get out here and make any kind of money.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 And something happened that you didn't make that transition.

Speaker 3 fair enough well I did try

Speaker 3 it's and that was another part of it is that it may sound like I'm not trying I tried to go to restaurants to see if someone would hire me for waitressing hosting different things and why didn't they what do you think the reason was

Speaker 3 I I mean I don't want to really I mean I don't know what the reason is honestly I don't know I know why I can't get a job in my field But the reason that I can't get a regular job doing something outside of what I do, I don't know.

Speaker 3 I mean, I would think anyone can get hired in a restaurant, but apparently not.

Speaker 2 I mean, but was it just the restaurant or did you go to Walgreens and Target and everywhere? Did you do DoorDash? Did you do Uber? Did you do Instacart?

Speaker 1 And they all said no.

Speaker 3 I didn't do anything that was not going to be able to pay my bills, not really.

Speaker 1 Right, but you

Speaker 2 hold, because here's my point.

Speaker 2 Nothing was paying your bills. So isn't something better than nothing? That's the point I'm trying to get to.

Speaker 3 i did have unemployment that's how i was able to pay my rent my rent was 2500 a month so i was paying no

Speaker 2 that's not true because you went into you had unemployment but it didn't it didn't cover the cost you still had costs because you went into credit card debt so that's why i'm saying wouldn't it help to have done some of these other things as well so that you would not have at least had to go into credit card debt.

Speaker 2 So I'm just trying to play this back because if you can't look back on this and see, here's where I went, here's where where it all went bad if you can't see that it will be impossible to fix this right so kelly i'm not piling on but i'm going to jump in here how many times did you apply for a waitressing position

Speaker 3 um can you pick that how many times i applied for

Speaker 3 a waitressing position at a restaurant i know you didn't get the one how many different restaurants did you apply to i went to like five different restaurants i went to another i went to a bar i went to lounges to try to apply for work right so here's the deal

Speaker 1 so so here

Speaker 1 here's what's going I was like what was that

Speaker 1 I don't know I opened my computer and I typed something here's the deal there could be a myriad of reasons as to why they hired someone else for those roles but I think what happened was is that you were like well no there this is just a bunch of no's and I can't get hired so I'm gonna go try to do my own thing on my own and you realize how hard that is and it's put you in a deep hole.

Speaker 1 I think what we're trying to tell you is, is that you can't take no for an answer. In other words, it's the restaurant, multiple restaurants, a bar.
They said no, fine. You pivot.

Speaker 1 You go to big box stores where they are hiring. You keep going.
You don't accept, well, I didn't get it here. I didn't get it here.
So I'm not going to get it anywhere else.

Speaker 1 There are jobs that you can get that do way better than unemployment, but you have to keep showing up and you can't just go in and apply.

Speaker 1 You got to talk to everybody that you know on social media, in person. You find a job doing whatever it takes to get you on a bridge so that you didn't have to rely on these credit cards.

Speaker 1 Now, you've got to go get work just to dig out of this. And I mean, like two or three jobs to dig out of this.
Because, Jade, as you said, this $60,000 is no joke. It's a lot of credit card.

Speaker 2 And let's talk about that a minute because there's another part of this,

Speaker 2 Kelly, that when you've you've been making $10,000 a month, right? Are you single? You're single, right?

Speaker 2 She's okay. As a single woman, you've been, that's significant.
Like, that's, that's a lot of money.

Speaker 2 So to go from that, it almost feels like, well, if I'm not making, it's like an all or nothing thing, right? You feel like if I'm not making that, then what's the point?

Speaker 2 And I think what Ken and I are getting at is that's, I get emotionally, that's a very real feeling, but we've got to go beyond that and say anything, anything at the same time.

Speaker 1 Until the technology market opens up a little bit. And then then what are some adjacent jobs that you're qualified for? Maybe it's different than what you've been doing.

Speaker 1 My point is you have to treat this like it's life or death because it is life or death for you financially right now. That's where you called us.

Speaker 1 You are in bad shape, but it's very fixable if you can begin to get some money coming in the door. You change your budget.
I mean, every dollar, I don't know what you want to give her here.

Speaker 1 She needs some help. She needs some resources.

Speaker 2 Yeah, before you leave, well, make sure you're set up with every dollar, the premium version, because it's going to help you build that habit of budgeting, checking in with your money every single day, and tracking your transactions.

Speaker 2 So we'll make sure you have that.

Speaker 2 I'm also going to give you the total money makeover because I think being able to read that and read other people's stories, you'll be able to see yourself in those stories and you'll be able to pinpoint, like I said, what went wrong here.

Speaker 2 You'll be able to accept that so you don't end up in this situation again, which is so important.

Speaker 1 Yeah, get after it, Kelly. Everything you got, you don't take no for an answer.
A no is just not here. And just keep on moving forward.
All right, quick break. We'll be right back.

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Speaker 1 Welcome back to the Ramsey Show alongside Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman.
Glad you're with us. Triple 8-825-5225.

Speaker 1 Hey, the best way to make the most of your money is by creating and then sticking to a monthly budget. That's why we created Every Dollar.
We believe it is the best budgeting tool on the planet.

Speaker 1 Help you plan spending, track expenses, save for what matters most to you, and it's easy.

Speaker 1 You can download Every Dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play or click the link in our show notes if you're listening on YouTube or your favorite podcast platform. Now, our last call,

Speaker 1 Jade and I were talking during the break. I want to revisit this quickly because Jade got fired up.
And, you know, listen, bottom line is, and love Kelly, want to help Kelly, but

Speaker 1 it is a difficult thing to lose one's job

Speaker 1 or to see an interruption. It just is.
Psychologically, we got to call that out. It's difficult, and so it can really throw us off.

Speaker 1 But there has got to be an awareness of that so that you develop a mindset that if you're in debt or you have been living paycheck to paycheck or both, which is usually the case, you can't allow that to keep you from continuing to bring in income.

Speaker 1 Yes. And it's almost like we had a whiteboard.
If we had a whiteboard in the studio, I would have wielded in here. Oh, man.
I would have given you a fresh marker.

Speaker 2 I would have gone Steve Cornacki on you in two seconds. Come on.

Speaker 1 So I'm looking at your notes here. You jotted down five things that you think people need to do.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Or why they need to get back to do any work. Set this up for us.

Speaker 2 I would call it five reasons to take any job before you get the job.

Speaker 1 I love that.

Speaker 2 Five reasons, right? And

Speaker 2 let me caveat this real quick because this is not just Jade sitting here yapping, right? So during COVID, COVID 2020, the pandemic, everything shut down. And for Sam and I, my husband,

Speaker 2 that was big for us because before I came to work here, I was in entertainment. Our whole business is in entertainment and cruise lines.
That's right. And all that was shut down.

Speaker 1 Your whole world. Okay, a whole world.

Speaker 2 And you want to talk about going from a great income to zero? Okay. So this is coming from my personal experience.
I had to take a job that I hated temporarily. It was a call center job.
So I get it.

Speaker 2 Okay. I'm talking out of personal experience.
Five reasons to take any job before you take the job. Number one, Ken, some money is better than any money.
I would agree with this.

Speaker 1 Right? That's a great point.

Speaker 2 It's better to, if you're, if you are the person who's like, well, I got to depend on credit cards. Well, if you bring in some money, I guess you won't have to use your credit cards as much, right?

Speaker 2 So some money is better than any money. Number two, Ken, Ken,

Speaker 2 your spouse needs to see who you are. Come on.
Who you are. Who are you going to be in a hard time?

Speaker 2 When the rubber meets the road, are you going to take any job? And are you going to be the person who steps up? My husband stepped up. I stepped up.

Speaker 2 And we needed to see that from each other because it was a hard time.

Speaker 1 Really good point. All right.

Speaker 2 Your spouse.

Speaker 1 Do you know what happens? You don't feel very psychologically safe when you lose a job.

Speaker 1 So you need some emotional safety is what you're talking about here.

Speaker 2 I like that. And if you see your spouse sitting around while you're trying to make things happen or, you know, vice versa, that's not going to be good for the marriage.

Speaker 2 So your spouse and you need to see who you are. All right.
Number three is, well, you'll learn what you like and what you don't like. Because I can tell you right now, I don't like.

Speaker 1 a call center job.

Speaker 1 By the way, what was it? What was it?

Speaker 2 I mean, I don't know if I can say it on here.

Speaker 1 No, you don't have to say the brand, but what kind of calls were you taking?

Speaker 2 I was taking people who needed help with their taxes.

Speaker 1 Oh, okay, gotcha. So, oh,

Speaker 1 tax advice. Yeah.
And did you have like a little cheat sheet of the basics you could help with and then you handed them off to somebody else?

Speaker 2 Uh-huh. No, it was the tax software.
So if they had trouble with the tax software, but you have to understand the taxes to be able to do that. So I learned a lot.
Wow. So I learned.

Speaker 2 That's what I'm saying. You'll learn what you like about how soul-sucking.

Speaker 1 Okay, on a scale of one to 10, how soul-sucking was it?

Speaker 2 I chose for it not to be soul-sucking because, like I said, it was 2020. There was enough that was sucking out our souls.

Speaker 1 So, my point is, it was, no, but that's you because you're mentally tough. I'm saying, how rough was it?

Speaker 2 It was hard because to go from making

Speaker 2 over 200 and some odd thousands of people.

Speaker 1 Oh, you're seeing the Whitney Houston covers in a fabulous, probably a nice suite with your hubs, traveling all around the world, and now all of a sudden you're on a, you're, that's not fun.

Speaker 1 That's what going on.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm saying hello. You sucked it up big time.

Speaker 2 Sucked it up. You gotta suck it up.
You gotta do what you got to do for your family. Okay.

Speaker 1 Come on.

Speaker 2 So that was number three. You'll learn what you like, what you don't like.
Number four, you'll just be a productive person. Okay.
Because sometimes, Ken, you just got to get out of bed.

Speaker 2 You got to take off your sweatpants, hit the pavement, knock on some doors, make some phone calls. Like you got to be productive.

Speaker 1 Make something happen. Make something happen.

Speaker 2 Otherwise, you're just going to be getting depressed. I love it.
About the fact that you don't have a job.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 2 Which leads me to number five. It'll build your confidence.

Speaker 1 There it is.

Speaker 2 Going to a job, I don't care if you're a greeter at Walmart, getting up and taking pride in what you're doing and being the best at whatever it is that you do.

Speaker 2 Colossians 3, 23, whatever it is that you're doing, work at it as though you're working, you know, for the Lord, not as unto man. What? Right.
I didn't quote it right, but you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 That works.

Speaker 1 When you do that. That was a message version.
I liked it. Yeah.
It was a message. It was really good.

Speaker 2 But that's my point. Like,

Speaker 2 who wants to show up when you finally do get the interview? It's been five months and you've not been to a job.

Speaker 2 You're going to bomb that interview because you haven't been building that confidence at any job.

Speaker 1 You need to get that typed up, printed out, and

Speaker 1 dare I say,

Speaker 1 oh, I just

Speaker 1 thank you. You know where I was going.
That needs to be a little, you just pull that chart out. Jay, it's fake to be alive or something.
That's really good, actually. Really good.
All right.

Speaker 1 Let's get back to the phones. But by the way, if you're real quick, I hope you listen to what she said because that is a fabulous pep talk for somebody who's in between jobs right now.

Speaker 1 I'm telling you, that right there is a mindset plan that she just gave you. You got to keep your mind right.

Speaker 2 I know that's right, Kevin.

Speaker 1 Because you're not going to get out of debt if your mind is destroyed. And it is very, very hard when you've lost steady work.
We acknowledge that. All right, to Kristen, we go in Lexington, Kentucky.

Speaker 1 Kristen, how can we help today?

Speaker 1 Hi, how are you all? We're doing great. What's going on?

Speaker 3 Jay needs to make that a magnet for sure.

Speaker 1 She's bringing out her inner days.

Speaker 1 Kristen,

Speaker 1 I love what we're doing here.

Speaker 1 I need a refrigerator magnet, Jay. I'll be the first person to buy it.
Maybe that's my new business.

Speaker 2 You know why?

Speaker 3 So people can see that as soon as they open up the fridge because we know they go to the fridge like 5,000 pounds a day.

Speaker 1 Amen and amen. By the way,

Speaker 1 I grew up in a magnet household. My mom had them, and my grandmother had them next door.
And so you just took me back, Kristen, to some serious nostalgia. How can we help you today?

Speaker 3 Well, I am, thank you all for taking my call. I'm 39.
My husband is 42. Our household income is $100,000 to $110,000 a year.

Speaker 3 We've been married for almost 13 years.

Speaker 3 Our net worth is around 1.1. Hey.
But that. Yeah, that does include our house.
And my husband said that that's really not included. He doesn't

Speaker 1 include our house. How much is that? Well, we would beg to differ.

Speaker 1 We would beg to differ.

Speaker 1 Yeah, if we included the house, what would it be?

Speaker 3 No, that is with the house. Oh, he says that we're not over that because

Speaker 2 he wants to see cash money in the bank.

Speaker 1 I appreciate that, but if you sold that house today, you're there. So

Speaker 1 we will include it. We just won't tell him.
Okay. Just between.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 3 We do have a $5,000 emergency fund. I have all of our life insurance through Xander, like you all taught me.

Speaker 3 We are avid Dave fans.

Speaker 3 We've been trying to live by girls' rule ever since we got married.

Speaker 3 And he's lived by that rule ever since he was like 14. He just said, I didn't listen until I started listening to Dave.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 I have a couple questions.

Speaker 1 Okay, we got about a minute and a half, so you got to get to them real fast.

Speaker 3 Okay, IMAXI are our Roth IRA, our 401k, and we contribute about $1,000 to $2,000 to mutual fund, and then the $7,000 max for each of us for our Roth.

Speaker 3 I don't feel, where do we go from here? I feel like because we're maxing everything out,

Speaker 1 you know, what do we do from here?

Speaker 3 I'm honestly, I'm getting ready to turn 40. I'm a little off, to be honest with you.

Speaker 3 And I'm thankful that we don't have any bills. But also, too, our

Speaker 3 mutual funds funds are only going like 6% to 8%.

Speaker 1 Okay, I got that's good. That's good.

Speaker 2 Hey, you're doing a great job maxing those out. Your funds should be doing much better than that, especially the past couple of years.
You should be in the 20s, honey.

Speaker 2 So I would suggest you get with one of our smart vestor pros. They're going to get you on the right track and teach you more about the right funds to make you a little bit more money.

Speaker 2 But yeah, you're doing the right thing. You could go to a taxable brokerage account, but it sounds like maybe you might want to try something like investing.

Speaker 2 Maybe it's now time to save up and invest in a piece of real estate. That might be interesting for you.

Speaker 2 It sounds like you're getting a little bored with just setting it aside into mutual funds and that sort of thing. So real estate could be the next play for you guys.

Speaker 1 Not bad at all. Again, go to the Smart Investor Pro section on the website, ramseysolutions.com, make a couple meetings and decide from there.
This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 5 All right, Dave, you have some strong opinions.

Speaker 1 Possibly, yeah.

Speaker 2 I think so. Okay, because you really prefer credit unions over big banks.
So why is that?

Speaker 1 Well, credit unions, for one thing, are non-profit, non-profit, which means that the members, the customers, own the credit union.

Speaker 1 So any profits that the credit union makes goes back into customer pricing. So you get better interest rate on savings, cheaper checking, and so on, that kind of thing.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 what's more important than that, though, is the fact that the customer is the owner changes the spirit. on the credit union.
So I find very few credit unions that aren't very customer-centric.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 5 Well, and I think we have found one that is incredible, and that's Fairwinds. They are an incredible credit union that is really out with the heart to help the customer.

Speaker 1 You know, that's why we're partnering with them because

Speaker 1 they've got a scope to be able to handle the Ramsey audience, and they're the right kind of people with the right kind of values. And they've done a really, really good job with customer service.

Speaker 1 And the deals that they're offering, the Ramsey tribe is incredible. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 5 And you're right. Their customer service is unbelievable.
Winston and I just signed up and we got an account. And I'm not kidding,

Speaker 5 it took less than five minutes. It was so user-friendly.
Like the step-by-step approach was unbelievable. And then the next day, my phone rings and it says Fairwinds on my phone.

Speaker 5 So I answered it and talked to someone there. And they said, yeah, they give calls to every new customer.
And so, again, they just really care about your experience. And I so, so appreciate that.

Speaker 5 So, again, you guys, I know it can be a pain to switch banks or to open up new accounts, but Fairwinds, again, they make it so easy.

Speaker 5 Plus, anything that you can do at a traditional branch, you can do with them at fairwinds.org or on their app. And you'll have free access to over 33,000 ATMs.

Speaker 1 Hey, you guys know how much I hate banks in general. And so for me to do this is a big deal.

Speaker 1 Talk to our friends at Fairwinds and check out the combined checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsey tribe. You guys, it's incredible.

Speaker 5 Yeah, you guys, it's so easy to join Fairwinds no matter where you live. So go to fairwinds.org/slash Ramsey to learn more.
That's F-A-I-R-W-I-N-D-S dot org slash Ramsey.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman.
Jade Warshaw is alongside. Phone number is 888-825-5225.
Jade's going to coach you up on how to handle your money.

Speaker 1 I'm going to coach you up on how to make more money. So let's go.
We're going to start off this segment with a question from our Ramsey Network app. This question is from Brody.

Speaker 1 He writes, I'm 27 years old and I bought a house about five years ago. I've put a lot of labor into fixing the house and it is worth a lot more than I had originally purchased it for.

Speaker 1 I just met with my financial advisor and he suggested the idea of taking out a $150,000 HELOC on that equity and investing it into a mutual fund to earn more money from my house.

Speaker 1 Is that the right move or the wrong move for me? And I'm betting, Jay, that the financial advisor is selling him that product.

Speaker 2 Oh, 100%.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he's selling it. The financial advisor's got himself a commission in his head.

Speaker 2 Yeah. The answer is no, I would never do that.
Because essentially what you're doing, you're leveraging your home, which is supposed to be a place of peace and security, for an investment.

Speaker 2 And it's like, why would you do that? And an investment, by the way, there's no guarantee.

Speaker 2 He didn't say what type of investment it would be, like him investing in the market, which is also something that I'm like, oh, he did say mutual advantage.

Speaker 1 No, he said mutual funds. So essentially, it's like

Speaker 1 the financial advisor is going, hey, let's put a big lump sum in your mutual fund.

Speaker 2 He can get a commission.

Speaker 1 Big commission. And then he could say, well, you're fast-forwarding this.

Speaker 2 Yeah. No, I would never do that.
I would just take my own income and invest it in mutual funds. And that way I'm not creating any additional risk in my life.

Speaker 2 I'm holding on to the wealth that I have, which is the equity in your home. And I'm continuing to build wealth by investing 15% of my gross income every single month.

Speaker 1 There you go. All right.
To the phones we go. Jeremiah is joining us now in San Antonio, Texas.
Jeremiah, how can we help?

Speaker 3 Hi, I'm

Speaker 3 $33,000 in debt, and I've saved up about $3,000, and I just don't know where to go from here.

Speaker 1 What is the debt?

Speaker 3 It's from auto loan.

Speaker 1 What's the car?

Speaker 1 Tell us about it.

Speaker 3 It's a

Speaker 3 2022 Dodge Ram 1500

Speaker 3 with about going to hit 70,000 miles right now.

Speaker 1 And okay, 70K.

Speaker 1 And what is it worth a private sell right now? If you went on Kelly Blue Book, what would the value be?

Speaker 3 I believe it was $26,000 over $25,000.

Speaker 1 Okay, so

Speaker 1 let's say $25,000 and be conservative.

Speaker 1 And you say you owe $33 on it?

Speaker 1 Yes. But you also said you have $3,000 worth of cash?

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 1 Okay, Jade.

Speaker 2 $33,000 worth of cash?

Speaker 1 No, no. $3,000.
He's got cash.

Speaker 1 He owes $33,000.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 we do too.

Speaker 1 You had it. So he's got a car that's worth $25,000.
I'm being conservative here. He's got $3,000 in cash.
No other cash anywhere else?

Speaker 3 No, just I have retirement.

Speaker 1 And no debt other than the truck?

Speaker 1 Yes, no debt other than the truck. All right,

Speaker 1 pretty clean here.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, if I were you, I'd try to get out of this by getting out of upside upside down. What's your income?

Speaker 3 Monthly is $2,400.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 You live in at home?

Speaker 3 $30,000. Yes.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 So how quickly could you save up another, because you're $8,000 upside down, you've got three.

Speaker 2 So we need five to make it right, right side up, right? But then you got to drive something. So we've got to come up with another $3,000 to get you a beater or something, right?

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So that's the equation right here. How quickly can you get eight another $5,000 in two months? Three months?

Speaker 2 Two months if you take a second job?

Speaker 2 You live at home.

Speaker 3 I would

Speaker 3 yeah, I would say about at least like give or take three months would take what bills do you have?

Speaker 1 What other bills do you have?

Speaker 3 What other goals?

Speaker 2 What other bills other than the car?

Speaker 3 Just a $75

Speaker 1 for my internet I believe okay and then what's the car payment just so I can really see this now the car payment is $639 and I pay $300 for the insurance okay so I kind of would like to see him pay this thing off it's not like you know what I mean there's a couple ways I'd like to see him own this thing and pay it off he's got no expenses in his life Pay this sucker i'm not i'm not against him selling it you got this funky face right now i think he never should have got it.

Speaker 1 I 100% agree. Oh, me too.

Speaker 3 Oh, I know. He knows.

Speaker 1 I 100% agree.

Speaker 3 It was my grandparents, and they co-signed on it.

Speaker 1 I guess my point is, I think he could put $2,000 a month on this if he got busy and started working hard. How old are you? 19.

Speaker 1 He's living with mom. What do you think?

Speaker 1 I always tell people to sell it, but in this case,

Speaker 1 I think he can pay this thing off. He's got no other debt in his life.
Now he's got a 2022 Dodge Ram truck, or he could go buy a beater. I mean, I think Jade's right.

Speaker 1 That's what I almost always say, sell the car.

Speaker 2 What do you want to do? What do you want to do?

Speaker 1 Jeremiah?

Speaker 3 Well, if it is any way possible, I would love to keep the truck.

Speaker 1 Well, it is possible. You got to pay it off.

Speaker 2 But you got to pay it off with like lickety split, like with the quickness, like you getting another job.

Speaker 3 I would hope like three years or two years.

Speaker 2 And see, this is why I'm saying sell it because when I gave you the task of getting $5,000 quickly, you felt like like that felt insurmountable. I could tell.

Speaker 1 Like that felt like, oh man. Yeah, see, and let me clarify my position.
I'm not saying, Jeremiah, over three years, pay it off.

Speaker 2 I'm saying, yeah, yeah, I know.

Speaker 1 I'm saying you pay it off in a, in, and, in a year.

Speaker 1 But, but at this point, maybe it's better off. If you don't think you can mentally do that, then I would sell it and I'd go get a $5,000 truck because I can find one online right now.

Speaker 1 I can find a $5,000 truck. I kind of like that plan for you.

Speaker 2 If you were a little bit older and you

Speaker 2 were accustomed to the type of work that Ken and I are talking about, I might say, yeah, keep it, pay it off. But I can tell that this is really a burden.

Speaker 2 Even the burden of getting the $5,000 to get right side up feels like a lot.

Speaker 1 Am I wrong or am I right?

Speaker 3 No, you're right.

Speaker 1 Okay. Well, then 100%, I agree.

Speaker 3 No.

Speaker 1 Those are your two options. Yeah.
Pay it down, pay it off quickly, or get rid of it. And I think you need to get rid of it.
Yeah. Go ahead and get it out of your life.

Speaker 1 You're going to sleep better and you're going to learn a valuable lesson.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 2 You can't really, it's hard to enjoy a purchase like that when it's kind of made you feel some type of way like that you know and a 600 most power payment i was enjoying it but um

Speaker 3 i had like started to learn about like the

Speaker 1 like financial things and i was just like oh gosh i'm living way out of my means yeah yeah i hear you listen a ram is nice i'm not gonna lie i've been looking at rams what color is it

Speaker 1 uh black okay yay it's black i'm black yay listen slide it this way

Speaker 2 You're in San Antonio.

Speaker 1 You know, and here's the deal. Let me tell you what's really going on, Jeremiah.
You've never done a budget, have you?

Speaker 3 No. Well, I've just started, actually.

Speaker 1 Okay, have you used Every Dollar? Are you familiar with our budgeting app?

Speaker 3 I am not.

Speaker 1 Okay. Jade, tell the man why he needs to be using Every Dollar because this will help you.
This is a prime candidate.

Speaker 2 This is great. You're a young guy.
This is a great habit to learn early. So Every Dollar, it's the best budget out there.
It's the only budget I use.

Speaker 2 I know it's the only budget Ken uses, but it's great because it's on your phone, it's on your desktop, and it does all the math for you, Jeremiah.

Speaker 2 All you have to do is plug in your income at the top, and you get to decide from there how you're going to spend every single dollar of your money.

Speaker 2 So you go in and put everything that Jeremiah might spend money on from your insurance to your car payment to, you know, a little bit of groceries for the house, whatever it is that you're spending money on, you put that into every dollar and then it's going to tell you, hey, here's how much extra you have to spend.

Speaker 2 So that's just the basics of what every dollar does. You connect it to your bank, and then all your transactions load in there, and it'll tell you, hey, here's how you're doing with your money.

Speaker 2 But there's also some really great

Speaker 2 future planning tools in there. So you can do it.

Speaker 1 It's going to help him save for that next truck that's maybe in the $14,000, $15,000 range.

Speaker 1 Jeremiah, that's the whole point: get this out of your life, then start budgeting, and then you can begin to see, okay, I'm still a young guy.

Speaker 1 I can save up and have a really nice truck in the near future that doesn't have any negative emotion attached to it.

Speaker 1 Right?

Speaker 3 Yes, sir.

Speaker 1 That's the idea, my man. So every dollar, download it today, start messing around with it.
To learn this at 19. Oh, you're going to be.

Speaker 1 Jade, I don't think I'm speaking in hyperbole, but I think he's going to be way

Speaker 1 past most 19-year-olds. Just learning to go, I know where my money is.

Speaker 1 And not only do I know where it is, I'm controlling where it's going.

Speaker 2 And being able to make the choice, hey, I bought that. It was too expensive.
I don't need to keep it. Being able to say that in life,

Speaker 1 priceless. Yeah, it's huge.
By the way, selling a car that you can't afford,

Speaker 1 it is the best way to get out of that deal, learn that lesson the hard way. It just kind of sticks with you forever.
Always the best choice. Great hour, Jade Warshaw.
This is the Ramsey Show.

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That's chministries.org/slash budgets.

Speaker 1 Welcome to the Ramsey Show America where we help you win with your money, win in your profession, and win in your relationships. Triple 8-825-5225 is the phone number, triple 8-825-5225.

Speaker 1 Love for you to call in. And if you need to get coached up on handling your money, Jade Warshaw is here.
If you need to get coached up on making more money, I'm here. I go by Ken.

Speaker 1 That's what i go by i've been called far worse but i go by ken ken coleman with you and always fun to be with you

Speaker 1 and uh we've got the energy here we both just got a little bit of caffeine and the juice we got the juice we're ready to go lily in milwaukee is where we're going next lily how can we help today

Speaker 3 hi um so i need advice on what to do um so this we just realized that my mother-in-law had stolen from my husband and i for the second time

Speaker 3 The first time was last, yep, the first time was last year that we discovered it.

Speaker 3 My husband's debit card numbers kept getting stolen even after he changed it six times. Come to find out

Speaker 3 it was my mother-in-law. She stole every time he was home.
She somehow went to his wallet and grabbed his debit card, wrote down the numbers.

Speaker 3 She used it to pay bills. I mean, it was,

Speaker 3 she also used it for

Speaker 3 we tracked $1,000 and then we stopped tracking it.

Speaker 2 Because you didn't want to keep you didn't want to keep getting

Speaker 1 no.

Speaker 1 How long did this go on before the second time that it's happened? How long did it go on for before you figured it out?

Speaker 3 I would say four months before we realized it. I actually realized it when I was looking over my husband.

Speaker 3 Well, then we were just dating or engaged, I can't remember. And he was just showing it to me and And I was just like, well, let me read it.
How do you do it? So I looked at it and I said, wait, babe,

Speaker 3 these are all utility bills. So someone's paying utilities.
And he's like, oh, okay.

Speaker 3 So we looked, and my husband, like a couple days later, found a utility bill that was paid with the last four digits of his card in his mom's name.

Speaker 3 So we confronted her. Well,

Speaker 1 we confronted her. How'd that go?

Speaker 3 Not well. Not well.
She, unfortunately, is an alcoholic.

Speaker 3 And so it's rough, especially because just under a mon a little over a month ago, we were ready with $5,000 cash to bail her out of her sixth OWI because otherwise her son was going to be her.

Speaker 3 My brother-in-law, who is now 17, was going to be put in foster care, and we were going to be his foster parents up until he turned 18. Oh, wow.

Speaker 3 And so we didn't, we were going to like, okay, we're going to bail you out.

Speaker 3 And we even told her, like, this is a gift. We don't want you to return it.
Like, this is just rough. So she was ordered to not, we even were driving a total of six hours a day.

Speaker 3 When I say we, I mean me because my husband was working. And I would drive an hour to pick her up, an hour to drop her off from her home to then work, and then an hour back.

Speaker 3 And then I would go back and I would go get her. And we finally stopped after we found out she was driving when she wasn't supposed to.

Speaker 3 And so we said, we're not going to be complicit in this. We're not going to turn you in, but we're not going to be a part.

Speaker 3 Part of our bargain to not asking for any money back was that you didn't break the law again.

Speaker 1 So this is a giant mess.

Speaker 1 We could talk about this for a part. Okay.
And what's your question for us today?

Speaker 3 We need help with the current situation of her stealing $13,000 from his Utma account.

Speaker 1 His,

Speaker 1 okay.

Speaker 2 Her stealing $13,000 from his Utma.

Speaker 1 Is it whose name is on it? Did she set up the Utma a long time ago for him?

Speaker 3 Yes, she set it up for him.

Speaker 3 He was in a really bad car accident. So because he was a minor, the money was then dispersed to her.

Speaker 3 And then at the same time, they were going hur his parents were going through a divorce.

Speaker 3 So part of the custody agreement was instead of just giving the money and letting it sit in a bank account, put it in an Utma like trust. So she did that.

Speaker 3 And then in 2008, she took out a little over six grand. And then in 2015, she took out another little over six grand of a total withdrawals of $13,186.43.

Speaker 1 No, we get it. She's got access to this, though.

Speaker 3 She did. Yep.
So now my husband's 22 and has right.

Speaker 3 And so when we talked with our accountant and we talked to the investor, she's not, according to like Utma IRS stuff or whatever that we are being told, is that she can't pull out any money unless it's to benefit the minor investment.

Speaker 1 But she just did it.

Speaker 2 So you could sue her. I mean,

Speaker 2 you could. You could

Speaker 1 do it. If that's true, then how is it that she just recently was able to get into the account and get $13,000 more?

Speaker 3 No, no, no, no, no, no. That was the total amount.
It wasn't recently that she did it. She did it in 2008, once, and then 2015.
We only found out now

Speaker 3 that we are now being mailed to my husband.

Speaker 1 Okay, so there's a lot coming at us.

Speaker 1 So you've done, so she, no, it's okay. But to try to help you,

Speaker 1 what you just told us seems like the solution.

Speaker 1 What you just told us, she can't get access to this now, correct? Because of his age. Right.
All right, then. So you don't have anything to worry about.

Speaker 2 Unless, like I said, unless you were trying to get the $13,000 back, if that's the case, you'd have to take legal action to prove that she took it, that she didn't spend it on him, right?

Speaker 3 I just don't even know how to prove that.

Speaker 2 My point in saying that is it's probably not going to be worth it.

Speaker 1 No, this is not worth it, Lily.

Speaker 1 She doesn't have any money.

Speaker 1 And the last thing you guys need to do is spend your money on a wild goose chase because that's what this is. This is already awful enough.
So if that's your question for us,

Speaker 1 Jade and I are saying if we were in your shoes, you can't sue her for anything. We'd let it go.
But I would make sure

Speaker 1 that your husband is on the phone with this account. Yeah.
And we're absolutely for certain that she cannot access the funds. The second thing is, I got to go back to the initial idea.

Speaker 1 He doesn't go anywhere near her

Speaker 1 with his debit card anymore. Right.
How did this happen to her? I don't know. Now he's laying his wallet around and she's just walking into the soap.

Speaker 3 No, what had happened was it was while he was still living there. So we didn't move in together until after we were married.
And he lived with his mom.

Speaker 3 When we found out about it, he did end up getting an apartment for six months.

Speaker 1 And then we moved in together. We were married.
Lily, this just needs to be a clear boundary here. This needs to be a clear boundary.
We don't do anything with her anymore involving money. Period.

Speaker 1 Period. Done.

Speaker 1 She needs to get healthy.

Speaker 1 And she may have to hit rock bottom. It doesn't sound like she's there yet.

Speaker 2 Yeah, has she ever gone through any treatment for her alcoholism?

Speaker 3 She was core ordered to with the other five OWIs, but it never ended up helping or doing anything, unfortunately.

Speaker 3 She did the program enough to get the boys out of foster care when they were removed from her care. And then as soon as she got them back and the order was finished, she went back to drinking.

Speaker 1 Where's little brother now?

Speaker 3 He is still living with mom. Okay.

Speaker 1 All right. Well, this is this is tough.
We feel really bad for you. I'm glad you have figured it out.
I don't think there's any recourse. I think you guys need a clear boundary here.

Speaker 2 And I think, you know what? I love therapy.

Speaker 2 So I would suggest you and your husband go talk to someone because when people do you wrong like that and your husband's probably bringing in his own baggage from that living situation, like you guys get some clarity and get some mental healing over this because clearly what she's her actions have impacted you guys and it's made you feel some type of way like understandably so but make sure you're working through that too so that when the time comes that she does become sober which i pray it does you can receive her with open arms also lily the best we can do is give you a present hang on the line we're going to give you every dollar Because this happened because you guys largely didn't have any idea what was coming and going in your bank account.

Speaker 1 I'm not trying to pour insult, you know, on the injury here, but let's get control of our budget so that nothing like this ever happens again. Hang on the line.
This is the Ramsey Show.

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Speaker 1 Welcome back to the Ramsey Show alongside Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman.
Triple 8-825-5225 is the phone number. Let's go to Washington, D.C.

Speaker 1 Samuel's there. Samuel, how can we help?

Speaker 3 Hi, Jaden, Ken.

Speaker 1 How are you?

Speaker 3 I'm good. Good.

Speaker 3 I guess my question mostly surrounds finishing school and my career in the future.

Speaker 1 Okay, tell us where you are in school and how far along you are and what you're pursuing.

Speaker 3 Yeah, right now I'm about 16 credit hours away from getting my associates in business.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 3 But I'm not taking any classes this semester.

Speaker 1 And what is the reason for that?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I'm working quite a bit of hours. I work every day.

Speaker 3 And by the time I actually, in truth, by the time that I was looking to sign up for classes this semester, all the ones remaining for my program were booked up.

Speaker 1 And what kind of work are you doing now?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I'm a manager and coach at a gym.

Speaker 1 And is that the field you want to go into?

Speaker 3 It's tough.

Speaker 3 I'm kind of at the ceiling of this stuff. The only kind of way to go up would be

Speaker 3 owner or equity owner.

Speaker 1 Right. But if you, if young Samuel, how old are you again?

Speaker 3 20, sir.

Speaker 1 20. If young Samuel thinks about the future 20 years from now, and we're going ideal here, all right, so I don't want you to be hung up on a lack of belief right now.

Speaker 1 I don't want you to feel insecure about your answer. I want you to go with what your heart's telling you.

Speaker 1 What does it look like right now? You can change this answer two minutes from now. What's 20 years down the road, a successful Samuel, and I run into you and you go, hey,

Speaker 1 20 years ago, I talked to you and Jay.

Speaker 1 Guess what I'm doing now? What would you tell me you're doing?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I'd love to either have some sort of remote work in a field that I really enjoy, or I really like to get into real estate investing and kind of manage.

Speaker 1 Okay, I feel like I got

Speaker 1 a safe answer, and I feel like I got the real answer.

Speaker 1 He's not an office guy. Don't tell me that 20 years from now, you're going to be excited to run into Jaden and go, hey, I'm doing remote work in a field I enjoy.

Speaker 1 Come on.

Speaker 2 Well, what that told me is he doesn't want to go into an office. Whatever he does, he wants flexibility.

Speaker 1 I know. I'm pushing him a little bit because he can handle it.
Samuel, what is it that you really want to do?

Speaker 3 I guess I really just want to make my friends and family happy and spend time doing things that I enjoy.

Speaker 1 I know. You're a sweet young man.
Jade wants to give you a big giant hug. Mama Jade is so touched.

Speaker 1 But Samuel,

Speaker 1 you want to do real estate? You want to be an entrepreneur? You want to be kind of on the move working for yourself. Is that the goal?

Speaker 3 Yes, sir.

Speaker 1 Okay. So until you figure out what it is that this entrepreneurial adventure or two or three or four may be,

Speaker 1 then I think you ought to be working.

Speaker 1 I think you ought to be working because you don't need an associate's degree to be an entrepreneur.

Speaker 1 You don't have a very clear direction as of this time, which by the way, I'm not judging that at all.

Speaker 1 And so for me, I don't think you should be feeling any kind of negative emotion about taking this semester off. Now, if you figure out what you, you know, you start to get some more ideas.

Speaker 1 And by the way, I'm going to give you some tools. I'm going to give you my book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do.
It has the get clear assessment in it. It'll take you about 18 to 20 minutes to take.

Speaker 1 Will you do it?

Speaker 1 Yes, sir. Because it's going to give you a purpose statement.
And it's basically going to go, I was created to use the top three talents and it's going to go boom, boom, boom.

Speaker 1 It's got a detailed report on each of the three top talents. Then it's going to say say,

Speaker 1 to do the work that I really enjoy doing, it's going to give you three passions, boom, boom, boom, and a detailed report on all three to accomplish my mission of, and it's going to give you one clear answer, which is a result that would get Samuel out of the bed every morning.

Speaker 1 Now, that's just a quick preview. But if you take it and you look at that purpose statement and you begin to lay it out over the world of work.

Speaker 1 Okay, and you begin to allow yourself to answer the question that I put you under the spot. Okay, I put you on the spot.
I know it was a little pressure.

Speaker 1 But if you continue to work through that same question with that purpose statement in mind, I think at some point you're going to come to some conclusions on two or three ideas that would absolutely allow you to use what you do best,

Speaker 1 to do what you enjoy, to produce a result that you care about. Isn't that what you really want, Samuel?

Speaker 3 Thank you so much, Tanya.

Speaker 1 So here's the deal. I am all for 19-year-olds working and making some money, Mama Jay.
I know that's right. And taking his time and figuring out, because he's not playing video games all day long.

Speaker 1 He's being productive. He's hustling.
This kid's got a heart the size of the Atlantic Ocean.

Speaker 1 So Samuel, I would say pause. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And then we jump back into school. And here's why, Jade, I want to give it to you to weigh in because you need to listen to Jade.

Speaker 1 If school,

Speaker 1 a degree, whether it be an associate's, a bachelor's grad degree at all, Jade, if it is the only way to do what you want to do, I say say do it.

Speaker 1 If it is the best way to do what you want to do, I say do it. But absent of those two very clear descriptors, then I say stay away from it because you are wasting time and money.

Speaker 1 This idea that colleges, it's so good for the young people to go find themselves.

Speaker 2 No, that's an expensive way to find yourself.

Speaker 1 Summer camp on steroids.

Speaker 1 You can go party on your own.

Speaker 1 Jade, what say you?

Speaker 2 I think that you're exactly right, Ken Coleman. I think that that's a message that needs to be shouted from the rooftops.

Speaker 1 I mean, look, there's just, it's just as simple as that. So, Samuel, I hope that's what you need.
Is that what you needed today?

Speaker 1 You needed, you didn't need anything from us, but I hope we answered your question.

Speaker 3 Yes, I really appreciate it.

Speaker 1 All right, my man, hang on the line. Kristen's going to get you a copy of the book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do.
And it comes with the assessment, the Get Clear Assessment.

Speaker 1 By the way, that little book is about a 45-minute read, Jade. It's me coaching people through their assessment results.
So

Speaker 1 I do believe passionately in that product. So, especially for young people who, by the way, there is this massive cultural pressure

Speaker 1 to go right out of high school and get accepted by a really great school

Speaker 1 so that you make your parents and your principal and your teachers proud.

Speaker 1 And there's a lot of Samuels in this world who are a lot like Ken Coleman.

Speaker 1 And we were like, that thing I want to do doesn't need a degree. I'm a college dropout because I was working.
I went to school to get a political science degree because I wanted to run the world.

Speaker 1 Uh-huh. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I know.
No surprise there. And I got a taste of politics.

Speaker 1 I got to work on a campaign in the middle of my sophomore year, and I took a whole semester off, and I tasted battle, folks. Hey.
And then I went back to school and was like, this is the desk job.

Speaker 1 And I've been in the foxhole.

Speaker 1 And I was never the same. And thankfully, my parents did not freak out.
They weren't happy about it.

Speaker 2 What'd they do?

Speaker 1 They just kind of were like, okay, well, we'd like you to finish your degree. Yeah, yeah.
Because another year and a half later, I dropped out to work on a Senate race.

Speaker 1 Then I went right to the gubernatorial race and I found myself working for the governor of Virginia at 22. That's cool.
So it wasn't like I was, you know, finding myself in Europe.

Speaker 2 Back then. But you could find yourself in Europe.

Speaker 1 And I got no problem with that either. Yeah.
I'm a big fan of a gap year.

Speaker 2 I wish I had found myself as a dropout. Listen, I stayed in in school too long.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but you were a D1 athlete. You're far more a higher achiever than me.

Speaker 2 Yes, but I quit volleyball to pursue music

Speaker 2 in my studies, but I didn't need to continue in school. No, you did not.

Speaker 2 I wish I had taken the Ken Coleman path of action.

Speaker 1 It would have been right for me. I went into the field that I was going to school to get into the field for.
I hope everybody understands that.

Speaker 1 I mean, I'm not saying that everybody drop out of school.

Speaker 2 No, we get you, Ken.

Speaker 1 But my goodness, why in the world would I fit this?

Speaker 2 It's not for everybody is what you're saying. Like, it's not the pathway for everybody.

Speaker 1 People used to ask me all the time, you're going to go back and get your degree? I was like,

Speaker 2 for what?

Speaker 1 I got a fancy office. I know, right? I'm wearing suits every day.

Speaker 2 You know what?

Speaker 1 I'm not going back to college for a political science degree. I am sciencing the political.

Speaker 2 What do you think about folks who really view it, though, like, it's just...

Speaker 2 I want to do it to say I did it. Like, it's just a...

Speaker 1 It's that important to you, pay it cash.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 1 But I would say to them privately, that's important to you. I'm not going to knock your priorities.
I'd go, you don't need it.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I'm just one of these guys that doesn't do anything that I don't need to do.

Speaker 2 Listen.

Speaker 2 I get you.

Speaker 1 Why do I need a degree?

Speaker 2 My degree helped me meet Sam Warshaw. That's all that matters.
That's what I tell myself at night when I'm thinking about the student loans I paid off.

Speaker 1 And tell people what you thought of Sam the first time you met him.

Speaker 2 I said that right there is a snack.

Speaker 1 It's my all-time favorite thing she says about he's become a good friend. One of these days I'm going to tell tell him, you're a snack.
And he's going to probably punch me, but it'll be worth it.

Speaker 1 Face card never declines.

Speaker 5 It's famous. You heard it here first.

Speaker 1 We love you, Sam. This is the Ramsey Show.

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Speaker 1 Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Thrilled to have you with us, helping you win with your money, win in your profession, and win in your relationships is our goal.

Speaker 1 888-825-5225 is the phone number to jump in. I'm Ken Coleman.
Jade Warshaw joins me. Why ReFi refinances defaulted private student loans and builds a custom loan based on your ability to pay.

Speaker 1 Private student loans are different than federal student loans like Sally Mae.

Speaker 1 So to learn more about this custom refinancing option and a lump sum payoff option, you could qualify for after 24 months, go to yrefi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y.

Speaker 1 R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey. It may not be available in all states.

Speaker 2 All right, today's question comes from Travis in Vermont. He says, I'm 23 and saving for a home down payment, which should only take 12 to 18 months.

Speaker 2 However, I've heard that you recommend not having a mortgage of more than 25% of your take-home pay.

Speaker 2 Even if I went, even if I were to save enough for a 20% down payment, I wouldn't be able to get a mortgage anywhere near that.

Speaker 2 I earned $70,000 per year, which is above average for coming straight out of college. There are no starter homes in this area for less than $150,000.

Speaker 2 Do you think young people will ever have a chance at purchasing a house if we stick to your 25% guideline.

Speaker 1 All right. Oh, that's a good question.
That's a great question.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Let's talk about it from a couple of angles. Number one,

Speaker 2 I love that you want to buy a house. I think that's great.
I think the dream of real estate is the American dream, right? To own something that's yours outright. It's great.

Speaker 2 What you first said was you could save for a down payment in 12 to 18 months, which lets me know whatever you had in your mind, you thought, this number will get me in the door, but the door that it's going to get you in in is a dangerous door for you.

Speaker 2 The reason that we say 25% of your take-home pay is because we want you to be able to live. Like we want you to be able to breathe out here because don't want to be house poor.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 At some point, you have to think about like this. At some point of the 100%

Speaker 2 pie of income that you have, at some point, you're going to want to invest 15%.

Speaker 2 So there's that. At some point, you're going to want to give 10%.

Speaker 2 So there's that. That's already at 25%.
At some point, you have a mortgage. Let's say it's more than 25%.
Let's say it's at 40%.

Speaker 2 Well, suddenly you don't have much to live off of, right? You've really cut that wedge really, really small for you.

Speaker 2 And we find people all the time who call in and say, oh my gosh, I mean, it happened the other day, Ken. Folks call in at 50% because they'll give you a mortgage

Speaker 2 up to 50%.

Speaker 2 Oh my goodness. And when that happens, these people can't breathe.
No. Like they can't pay for a pot to piss in.
Like they don't have anything.

Speaker 1 One of my all-time favorite phrases, by the way. You dusted that one off.
That's like an old school. It came from the depths.
It did. That's like an old school phrase.

Speaker 2 I think I probably heard my dad say it.

Speaker 1 Oh, I promise you.

Speaker 2 Anyway, you know, that's the point. It's not, it has nothing to do.

Speaker 2 It has nothing to do with being a Ramsey-ism, right? That's right. It's about you.

Speaker 1 We want you to be able to live. So it's about margin and emotion attached to that margin.

Speaker 2 And so that's kind of what I want you to leave here with. It's not about us.
It's about you being able to enjoy your home and have the money to do the things that you need to be able to do.

Speaker 2 So that's thing one. Now, let's answer the question of, do you think single people will ever have a chance at purchasing a house if we stick to your 25% guidelines?

Speaker 2 The answer is yes, but comma, and you'll have to change your expectations on possibly the piece of real estate and the timeline that it will take to get you there. That's right.

Speaker 1 And the zip code.

Speaker 2 And the zip code. All these things.

Speaker 1 Come on. And what you grew up in doesn't mean that that's what you're supposed to start in.
Facts.

Speaker 1 That's the biggest thing. Yeah.
It's like, well, you grew up in a four-bedroom, three-car garage, and you think that that's what you're supposed to start with. And I'm like, at 23?

Speaker 1 I think a lot of people do think you're that.

Speaker 1 And it's like, wait a second. I mean, the first house Stacey and I started with, it was, it's like a matchbox compared to what we live in now.

Speaker 1 And we thought it was massive and scared to death of it, by the way. It's $198,000.
Wow. And I thought,

Speaker 1 and I thought, and by the way, I did it by the book. Uh-huh.
The down payment, the way Ramsey teaches about it, but I thought I had mortgaged my life away because of the sheer price of the home. Yes.

Speaker 1 $198,000 back then, that was like, I thought I was going to die.

Speaker 2 And that's so important to note, Ken. So important.
Despite what your monthly payment for the mortgage might be, you still, that first home, you feel the weight of whatever the entire amount you have.

Speaker 1 Yeah, even though we put a nice down payment on, it was over 20%, but it still felt like, what have I done? And so there's a responsibility there, which, by the way, makes me think.

Speaker 1 I want to just add one thing. I thought your answers were great.
This is why we created what I think is one of the best resources we've ever created at Ramsey. And by the way, it's all free.

Speaker 1 It's called Ramsey's Real Estate Home Base. So anybody watching and listening right now, this is free and it's absolutely chock full of, it's a podcast on there.
We've got a book on there.

Speaker 1 We've got a video series, how-to articles, start-to-finish guides on buying or selling anything real estate related. If you're kind of going, what do I do? Yes.

Speaker 1 And you trust us, go to ramseysolutions.com slash real estate. Let me say that again.
Ramseysolutions.com slash real estate.

Speaker 1 If If you couldn't write it down, can't remember it, go to the show notes for today. It's there.
Very important that you understand what all is involved here. So really good question.

Speaker 1 And Ken, let me drive this.

Speaker 2 Let me drive this point home one more way.

Speaker 1 Drive it down the lane.

Speaker 2 There's always a new listener, someone who doesn't know our backgrounds, right? So my husband and I, I loved this question because right now, the real estate, it's gotten more and more expensive.

Speaker 2 It started to cool out in some areas, but the truth is it is very expensive.

Speaker 2 And with other things being expensive, inflation and things like that, it does make it feel harder to be able to accomplish this dream. That is the truth.

Speaker 1 Well, the numbers have gone up, you're right about that. It is a higher level, yeah.

Speaker 2 And so, I like to remind people when my husband and I were getting out of debt, of course, we couldn't buy a house during that time because we say you should really pay off your debt before you become a first-time homeowner.

Speaker 2 And so, Sam and I rented Ken for 10 years, and during the course of that 10 years, we paid off $460,000 of debt and then we saved up and were able to do

Speaker 1 a bunch of people living with you, too. I feel like you say what? Didn't you have a bunch of people living with you too?

Speaker 2 Not a bunch of folks. We had roommates at one point.

Speaker 1 We did. That's what I'm saying.
I'm not knocking that.

Speaker 2 We were married and we had another married couple that lived with us for a year.

Speaker 1 I thought that was extreme.

Speaker 2 10 out of 10 would not recommend Ken.

Speaker 1 But you did it. We did it.

Speaker 2 But the point is.

Speaker 1 I said a bunch of people.

Speaker 2 I'm sorry. It kind of sounded like we were just on the block.

Speaker 1 We just had folks coming through.

Speaker 2 Lipping in a shoot. No,

Speaker 2 just reframing a timeframe. If it takes 10 years, so be it.

Speaker 2 You'll be a homeowner. I can tell you, you will.

Speaker 1 And here's the key. Actually, I'm really glad you brought that up because I think some people right now are still going, 10 years?

Speaker 1 Before you throw shade at my friend, I want to bring this back to you because that 10 years of rent, I'm sitting here with you today and I'm going to take a guess that you don't feel like you pissed that money away.

Speaker 1 Not at all. So what did the 10 years of rent, which some people right now are on TikTok, Instagram going, what? Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 How did that 10 years of renting give you freedom to get to where you are today?

Speaker 1 Break it down.

Speaker 2 Well, A, I don't regret it at all. Like here in my life, I'm 41 years old.
I don't go, oh, man, if only I had bought my house when I was 23.

Speaker 2 Like there's no part of me that thinks back and regret at all.

Speaker 1 Why?

Speaker 2 Because it was worth it to do things right. You took seven, we took seven and a half years, paid off all the debt.
Then we took, we lollygagged a couple of years because we were tired.

Speaker 2 Took some more time to save up.

Speaker 1 That's well, you were paying off half a million dollars. That's right.
You deserve a water break.

Speaker 2 Took some time to save up. And then when we finally bought our house, I was pregnant.
I had just had my first son and I was 36 years old. And it was great.

Speaker 1 And now here you are, homeowner. Homeowner.

Speaker 2 I'm on my second house.

Speaker 1 People think that that's wasting money. And in your case, it was actually the freedom and margin you needed to get out of debt.

Speaker 2 That's right, because it was cheaper.

Speaker 2 It was far cheaper for us to rent. We had a season of roommates and it freed up money.

Speaker 2 And like we said before, the last thing I needed needed was more stress of then feeling like, okay, now I've also got this mortgage that I have to, you know, be accountable for.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 craziest thing that happened that you're willing to share when you had another married couple roommates.

Speaker 1 Or most awkward.

Speaker 2 I think one time we came home and they had bought a home alarm, an alarm for the house. And so Sam and I came home from a trip.
We had been working.

Speaker 2 And when we opened up the door,

Speaker 1 well, they didn't tell you. Yeah.

Speaker 1 That has to be really alarming.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that alarmed me.

Speaker 1 I'll bet. No pun intended.
Wow.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I was alarmed.

Speaker 1 I think that should have been a reality show. I hate that we missed that.

Speaker 2 That part I don't miss. I love them.
They were great people. I have nothing but love in my heart.

Speaker 1 You're still in touch with them? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Somewhat? Somewhat. From a distance, but not because they're not great people.
From a distance, little Bette Middler.

Speaker 2 From a distance.

Speaker 1 There it is. I knew she would do it, folks.
That's all I got to do is tee it up and she can sing it. Check the key.
Lady in the lobby is giving you a heart sign.

Speaker 1 She wants a little bet middler during the break. Everybody is watching us.

Speaker 1 That's how you go out the break right there, folks. I'll listen as she sings along during the commercial break.
We'll be back before you know it. This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Let's play a game.

Speaker 6 Raise your hand if you've already filed your tax return.

Speaker 4 Ready? Go.

Speaker 6 Okay, I can't actually see any of you, but I can feel it in my bones that not enough of you are raising your hands. Y'all need to get on over to Ramsey Smart Tax and file your dang taxes.

Speaker 6 Ramsey Smart Tax is a 100% accurate tax software that won't pilfer your wallet or surprise you with garbage hidden fees.

Speaker 6 Plus, it's powered by Taxlayer who's been trusted in this industry for more than 50 years. Go to ramseysolutions.com slash Smart Tax and file with tax software you can trust.

Speaker 6 That's ramseysolutions.com/slash Smart Tax.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to the Ramsey Show alongside Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman.
So glad you're with us today as we help you win with your money, win in your profession, and win with your relationships.

Speaker 1 888-825-5225. Jade, I'm a little excited about it, and I don't naturally celebrate these things like I should.
Super excited.

Speaker 1 Been dreaming about a show concept for a long time, and we've been working on it as a team. The team's done a great job.
It's called Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman.

Speaker 1 And it has, people ask, has it replaced a Ken Coleman show? Yes, because it is a very different format. Imagine you're sitting in on a...

Speaker 1 deep dive conversation with somebody who's a thought leader, someone who has done something extraordinary in their lives. They are a man or a woman of success.

Speaker 1 And you get to be a part of the audience. And you're you're sitting around with us asking a question.
Well, that is the format, live format.

Speaker 1 We record it and then also we have a virtual format where people can zoom in, if you will. So we're bringing the audience to the front row seat.
That's the concept.

Speaker 1 It's on YouTube now or wherever you get your podcast. A new episode comes out every Tuesday morning.

Speaker 1 If you want to get better personally, move up professionally and lead effectively, those are the conversations.

Speaker 1 wow how do you how do you source your like guests how do you pick how do you select your guests because you had some wonderful guests yeah we have some really fun guests and the way it goes down is you know we're selecting people within those categories so for instance

Speaker 1 people that can help experts can help out in the area of personal growth so that would be an expert maybe on sleep or nutrition or exercise okay right and so holistic we're mixing it up right and then of course we have people that are professional uh gurus that can help you on certain soft skills.

Speaker 1 Like we just had Charles Duhigg, we just recorded that. It'll come out soon.
Pulitzer Prize-winning author of the book Super Communicators. Wow.
So we're talking about the three types of conversation.

Speaker 1 So how do we use those types of conversation to win in our profession, but also win at home? That's so helpful. And then, of course, leadership experts.

Speaker 1 So it's very intentional between those three buckets of content, if that makes sense. Well done, Ken.
Thank you. I'm really excited about it.
It's beautiful, by the way.

Speaker 1 If you want to check it out on YouTube, the team did a great job with the set. Looks really, really fun.
So the the front row seat is the name of the show, front row seat with Ken Coleman.

Speaker 1 You can get it on YouTube or wherever you get your podcast. Let's go to Brianna, who's joining us in Dallas, Texas.
Brianna, how can we help today?

Speaker 3 Hi, yes, I have a question. Well, I need some advice.

Speaker 3 Me and my husband are thinking about selling our home

Speaker 3 because we're just drowning in debt and we just don't have any other option to try to get out of it but to sell our home.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 1 yes, that's what is what is what has created that scenario where you don't believe you have any other options? Give us some details.

Speaker 3 Well, we are

Speaker 3 just drowning in debt. And I know y'all we

Speaker 3 sell the cars and we looked into it. We owe in one of our cars, we owe like $9,000.

Speaker 1 Okay. And

Speaker 3 we try to see if we can sell it, but we will be under. We it's really not worth selling.
It's just, I guess right now we're just better off paying it off. And the other one is twelve thousand.

Speaker 3 And that one as well is negative. So

Speaker 3 we're like, okay, well, we might as well just try to hang on to those and try to pay those off. And everything else is loans and credit cards, student loans, IRS.

Speaker 1 Go through the other ones.

Speaker 2 Go through the other amounts for us so we can get a picture of this. So the $9,000 car, the $12,000 car, what else?

Speaker 3 And then loans, like personal loans, we are like $20,000.

Speaker 3 Credit cards is around like

Speaker 3 $35,000 to like $40,000.

Speaker 3 Student loans is my husband's is like $73,000. Okay.

Speaker 1 How much are yours?

Speaker 3 I don't have any. Good.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 the IRS is like $9,500.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 3 And then I have medical bills that's like $3,000.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 So what's your combined income?

Speaker 3 Combined income is like $10,500 to like $11,000

Speaker 1 per month.

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 2 Okay. And have you added up?

Speaker 2 If you don't know, it's okay. But if I were to ask you on the spot, like, how much does this cost you in payments every month? Do you know the number to that?

Speaker 3 Like, the debt alone is like $4,000, probably a little bit more.

Speaker 2 Okay. So you're paying $4,000 in payments.
And then tell me what's your mortgage? Tell me about the mortgage. Tell me what you owe on it.

Speaker 3 The mortgage is like $3,1,3,100. Okay.

Speaker 2 And that's what you're paying per month, but tell me how much you bought the house for.

Speaker 3 The house, we bought it for $386.

Speaker 1 And what's it worth?

Speaker 3 Right now it's worth like $385, $387.

Speaker 1 Well, sweetheart, if you sell the house, that's not going to give you guys any much money at all.

Speaker 3 I know. We owe $3.40 on it right now.

Speaker 1 Right, but after you pay your realtor, there's very little of this that is going to actually solve this problem.

Speaker 3 Right. That's what we were like, okay, should we just try to buy for it or should we try to sell it and try to at least get out of it?

Speaker 1 Jade's got something to tell you. I mean, the only thing

Speaker 3 we were thinking is because my husband drives like an hour and a half commute to his job.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 3 So he wanted to move closer to his job because

Speaker 3 it's a long drive.

Speaker 1 Got you.

Speaker 1 Did you rent for less money in that location? Sorry, Jay. That's okay.

Speaker 3 The rent is probably going to be like $2,000. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Not much difference. Not much difference.

Speaker 1 Well, no, you said you're paying $3,100 per month. Oh, yeah.
That is actually a huge difference.

Speaker 3 $3,100 plus

Speaker 3 the HOA.

Speaker 2 Oh, that's not including HOA. What's your HOA?

Speaker 3 250 every quarter.

Speaker 2 Okay, every quarter. Okay.

Speaker 1 I would consider moving, Jake, in this situation, because that's a long way to commute number one.

Speaker 2 Well, there's a couple of things. You got that big commute.
I was going to ask you, is it an hour and a half each way or is that combined? Because if it's 40 minutes, that's not as big of a deal.

Speaker 1 No, it's each way. Ooh, girl.
Yeah. I definitely move.

Speaker 3 He has to drive into the office three days out of the week. So two days he'll work from home, but three days out of the week, he has to drive to the office.

Speaker 2 It's still a lot. Three hours driving in a day is a lot to get to work.

Speaker 2 So that's one, that's one green light. It's not the biggest reason because like you said, it's not like he's going in every day, but it is a reason.

Speaker 2 The biggest reason for me to consider getting out of this house is because it's more than 25% of your take-home pay. And at this point, you need every dollar that you can get your hands on.

Speaker 1 Now,

Speaker 2 there is a thought here.

Speaker 2 And you guys need to sit and talk about this because there's a thought where I go, okay, if you guys really start side hustling if you start picking up your income there could be a world when this debt is over that this is not 20 that this is 25% of your take-home you see what I'm saying that you raise your income and it becomes something that you can keep around today though it's really a problem so I would say your homework to sit down with your spouse tonight would be to say what are all the things we can do to make money What are your opportunities that are directly related to your job?

Speaker 2 And what are mine that are, do you, do you both work?

Speaker 3 Yes, we both work. So he has his main job and then he has a part-time job on the weekends to make some extra income.

Speaker 3 I try to work overtime. I work at

Speaker 3 a daycare, so I try to work

Speaker 3 overtime whenever I can.

Speaker 1 How consistent can that happen?

Speaker 2 Is that like a daily thing, or is it like a couple times a month?

Speaker 1 It varies.

Speaker 3 It varies. It depends on the teachers.
Like, I just found out I have COVID, so I have to be out all week.

Speaker 2 Got you. So what I'd be looking for, when I'm looking for a side hustle, I'm looking for something I can count on.
That's the whole point.

Speaker 2 So I'd be looking, if I'm going to spend the extra hours working, I want something that's like clockwork. I can get it.
I can go bust my butt and do it. And it's there.
So you both need that.

Speaker 2 And then if something, if, you know,

Speaker 2 part-time pops up at the at the job and you have the leverage, you know, the place in your schedule to do it, you do that too.

Speaker 2 But right now, I want, here's my, my main job and a go-to side hustle that's always there. I can work it every day, every weekend.
Got it. So, that's you guys's job to come up with that tonight.

Speaker 2 And then after that, have you made a budget?

Speaker 3 I tried the dollar thing. I just downloaded it.

Speaker 1 Okay, good.

Speaker 3 I did like this free trial thing, but I'm going to have to test it because it's like $18 a month.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Y'all need to stop borrowing money.

Speaker 2 Yeah. You got to stop borrowing money.

Speaker 1 Ken is right. Yes.
Ken is right.

Speaker 1 Like, you got in this mess because y'all are trying to do too much and you don't have enough money for it.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 if you can't afford every dollar to get a budget, you better get it out on paper.

Speaker 2 You can afford it. You spend more on pizza delivery, okay? You can afford it.

Speaker 1 This is the Ramsey Show.