Make Money Choices Today That You Won’t Regret Tomorrow

Speaker 1 This is the Ramsey Show where you come America to get coaching to win in your life, win in your money, win in your profession, and win in your relationships.

Speaker 1 888-825-5225 is the phone number to jump in alongside the incomparable, the fabulous, and

Speaker 1 almost a happy birthday, gal. Tomorrow, she will be the birthday gal, Jade Warshaw.
I'm Ken Coleman, just happy to sit next to her. That's how it goes, folks.
Just, that's it.

Speaker 1 I'm easy.

Speaker 2 Just happy to sit next to you. Easy like Sunday morning.

Speaker 1 I enjoy being with you, friend. We always have a good time.
So Jade will coach you up on what to do with your money. I'm going to coach you up on how to make more money.
How about that? Pretty simple.

Speaker 1 Let's go to the ATL Atlanta Georgia Christy's there Christy how can we help

Speaker 2 yes I got a divorce a few years ago not really by choice but

Speaker 2 I have cannot seem to find a job I before I stayed at home with my kids I had a great job I have a master's degree

Speaker 2 and now that I'm trying to look for a job full-time nobody will really hire me and I'm currently doing like the small business that I was doing when I was married. So it's more of a part-time income.

Speaker 2 But I got my house is paid off. My car is paid off.
I have a rental house that's paid off.

Speaker 2 So I've got that and I've got some cash, but I'm not really sure what to do with it because I don't know what my salary is going to be in the future.

Speaker 1 Okay. Well, let's get, we'll get to the cash.
I want Jay to weigh in on that and help you out, but let's just talk about this

Speaker 1 reality that you're facing. You're saying, I can't get hired.
Are you not getting interviews or are you getting interviews and you're not winning the interview? What's going on?

Speaker 2 Well, I started with looking in the healthcare business section that I was in, and because it had been over 20 years, I just could not get any kind of interviews.

Speaker 2 I've had all kinds of people look at my resume and say it's really good.

Speaker 2 I mean, vice presidents, all types of people I've had look at it.

Speaker 2 So then I tried to, you know, change it up and do more marketing stuff, stuff, which is kind of what I've been doing, I guess, part-time.

Speaker 2 And I just can't seem to find anything.

Speaker 1 Well, no, again, here I'm looking for specifics. When you say you can't get interviews, and that's across the board.

Speaker 2 I have had a few interviews,

Speaker 2 but not very many. Like, I'm just not getting any calls for interviews.
So I'm not sure.

Speaker 1 What's your process? What is your process for getting these interviews? What are you doing?

Speaker 2 I'm going online and filling out.

Speaker 2 I have different resumes tailored to different types of jobs, and then I'm sending them in. And I've been looking locally, but also I can't really move right now.
I still have one in high school,

Speaker 2 so I'm kind of a little bit. I don't live in the city.

Speaker 1 Okay, so based on what you did in the past in the healthcare industry, what did you do, by the way?

Speaker 2 Oh, I was in finance.

Speaker 1 Okay, so on the number side.

Speaker 1 Okay. So based on that,

Speaker 1 that skill set is still there. You largely, it's not like you forgot how to crunch numbers and be detailed and all the things and be analytical, all the things that it takes to win.

Speaker 1 So you've had a few interviews, but based on all of that, that's what people are telling you in the healthcare space that your resume is up to speed and ready to go?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean,

Speaker 2 I have had a few people in healthcare, but mostly it's just been other fields. Anyone that I knew that could look at it, I would let them look at it.

Speaker 2 But everybody said they thought it was a great interview, a resume.

Speaker 1 All right. Two things.
One, I want to make sure, Christian, let's get her my Ken Coleman resume templates.

Speaker 1 They're very, very different, and they're designed to actually call attention to what I teach in my best-selling book, The Proximity Principle.

Speaker 1 So you've gotten a few interviews, but you have tried to get far more. So your percentage right now is, based on what I'm hearing, it's pretty low.

Speaker 1 So how do we increase the percentage of actual interviews? The way we do that is through relationships. It's not going online.
And I'm not criticizing you. I'm encouraging you.

Speaker 1 You are essentially playing the job lottery when you go through what is now heavy AI

Speaker 1 format when you go onto a website. To give you an idea, there are tens and tens and tens of thousands of people that apply at Ramsey Solutions every year.

Speaker 1 They're coming through our website, but I'm going to tell you how you get hired here is how you get hired everywhere else. You get it and you make a connection.
That's right.

Speaker 1 And so I'm going to give you my book, The Proximity Principle, to encourage you. Okay.

Speaker 1 But more importantly than reading the book, what's really important is that you begin to say, okay, as I'm moving forward today, as I'm talking to Ken and Jay today,

Speaker 1 going forward, when I see a job that I'm interested in, I am not going to fill out the online resume submission thing.

Speaker 1 What I'm going to do is, is I'm going to look at that job at company XYZ and I'm going to go, okay,

Speaker 1 do I know anybody that works at company XYZ?

Speaker 1 If the answer is yes, we reach out to them and say, hey, do you know somebody over in this department? Because this is where I'm looking. Okay.
And we walk through that.

Speaker 1 And the goal here is, is to get them to personally walk into Jade's office and go, Jade, I know you're hiring for this position.

Speaker 1 I want to tell you about my friend Christy. I've known Christy for this long.
This is her story, her background.

Speaker 1 I've got a physical copy of her resume in this nice little manila file folder, if anybody uses those anymore. Or they put the resume in front of Jade and say, Jade, I'm not going to bug you.

Speaker 1 I'm not going to harass you. I'm not going to bend your arm, but I think you should seriously consider my friend Christy.

Speaker 2 Now,

Speaker 1 this is not a guarantee that Jade, who's helping me role play in this situation, is going to go, done, she's hired. Thank you, Ken.
I've been waiting for you to walk in and tell me who I should hire.

Speaker 1 That's not going to happen. But, Christy, you get how that does move you out of the pile, yes?

Speaker 1 Yes. The digital pile.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 Now, if you don't know anybody at Company XYZ,

Speaker 1 you got to ask, do I know somebody who knows somebody? And now we're playing this old game of seven degrees from Kevin Bacon.

Speaker 1 But I'm telling you, as old-fashioned and as simple as that sounds, that is the way to get noticed. And it's going to take some time.

Speaker 1 And you're going to have to keep turning over rocks, turning over rocks, turning over rocks. And eventually, you're going to get into the right situation where the door opens for you.

Speaker 1 Now, I want to transition to Jade here because she's got some money she doesn't know what to do with. And I wanted you to help her out with that while she's in this season of part-time pay.
All right.

Speaker 2 Well, let's talk about the money because what you first said sounded pretty good. Paid off house, paid off car, paid off rental.
What else is going on?

Speaker 2 I mean, well, I have some extra money. Like when we sold the marital house, I wanted to do something with it.
So I bought a rental. I have a great tenant, pays on time, like it's going great.

Speaker 2 The problem is I don't have enough to buy another full house. So I'd have to get, of course, a mortgage.
And the rates, you know, are not good.

Speaker 2 And I I don't want, if I do that, I don't want it to be too close to what I'd have to pay, you know, with insurance and taxes and such. The other houses for you? I'm just

Speaker 2 going to have another rental. My house is paid off.
Why are you in a rush to where you're like, I'd have to get a mortgage and I'd have to, why do you feel rushed to do that?

Speaker 2 Because I won't be getting any help from my ex-husband soon.

Speaker 2 Like, I'm, you know, I'm kind of getting near there, and I don't make a lot with my job or my so you're you're thinking this is going to be good income. Like instant income.
Yes.

Speaker 2 I'm looking for income really. Okay.
Well, it's not going to be too, too much because you're going to have a mortgage on the house. I would not do that.

Speaker 2 I would not go into debt to pick up another rental property. I think you could probably go make more doing something else with less risk or no risk attached to it, just in the form of a job.

Speaker 2 If I were you, the money that you have left, I would probably sit it in a high-yield savings account and continue to save for it.

Speaker 2 If the horizon is more than five years, I suppose you could throw it in an index fund and let it grow a little bit faster.

Speaker 2 But other than that, nothing's on fire here. Yeah, I mean, Ken gave you what you need.
You gotta be patient. Ken gave you what you need to get the job you need.

Speaker 1 And I would, by the way, be getting solid hourly work if that's what you got to do to make up the difference here. But hang on the line, Christian.
Let's get her a copy of the proximity principle.

Speaker 1 I'm gonna tell you something: the right people will get you in the right place.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to The Ramsey Show alongside Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman.
We're so excited that you're with us. Well, it's that time of year.
I can't believe how fast the calendar is coming at me.

Speaker 1 And before you know it, you're going to have to pay those taxes.

Speaker 1 And you need to make sure that you've got a pro who knows how to navigate maybe some of the complexities or just making sure that you are not paying too much.

Speaker 1 All of those things that are associated with taxes. You just don't want to try to do it yourself unless you really know what you're doing.
That's why we want you to think about a tax pro.

Speaker 1 Go to ramseysolutions.com slash tax pro to find CPAs and enrolled agents who have been vetted by our Ramsey team.

Speaker 1 And I was just emailing back and forth with my local tax pro, and I always tell him, I said, I gave you some love today on the show because I sleep better because I know he's taking care of business.

Speaker 1 I know that's right. You know what I mean? I do not want to get on the wrong side of the IRS.

Speaker 2 I know that's right.

Speaker 2 Take care of that business, Ramsey. I don't want to do it.
I hate taxes, Ken. So do I.

Speaker 1 I'm not going to get distracted. Sometimes I hear the word taxes and I go into a rant.

Speaker 2 We're going to go to Kevin instead. Okay.

Speaker 1 Kevin is in Charlotte, North Carolina. Kevin, how can we help today?

Speaker 2 Hi, guys. Thanks for taking my call.

Speaker 2 This fall, my wife and I will be coming into a significant amount of money. It'll be like probably a million after taxes.
Wow. Wow.

Speaker 2 What's going on?

Speaker 2 And so I want to be smart about it.

Speaker 2 My wife and I kind of disagree about this. So she wants to move.
There's an area of our city that she really wants to move into. It's incredibly expensive.
I know where you're talking about.

Speaker 1 If you're in Charlotte, I know.

Speaker 2 Yeah, so

Speaker 2 our neighborhood doesn't have very many kids, and our oldest has no one his age. So that's a big portion of why we want to move.

Speaker 2 We owe about 182 on our house.

Speaker 1 Kevin, Kevin, Kevin, Kevin, you're going so fast.

Speaker 1 We've got a couple questions for you.

Speaker 2 I'm sorry. No, no, you're doing great.

Speaker 1 How old is your child?

Speaker 2 My oldest is 11.

Speaker 1 Okay, so you got 11-year-old. And then

Speaker 1 what is creating this windfall?

Speaker 1 What's the 1 million coming from?

Speaker 2 My wife, she's a rock star. And so

Speaker 2 she's selling, or she's moving a book of business to a different institution.

Speaker 2 That's one of her incentives. Okay.

Speaker 1 Okay, so

Speaker 1 this is considered income. This is not an inheritance.
That's why I asked that. I was crazy.

Speaker 2 Wow, yeah. That's a big deal.
So tell me more about the numbers. You want to move.
You gave me the reasons why. I don't know how good those reasons are, but I digress.

Speaker 2 Tell me the numbers so we can see this makes sense.

Speaker 2 Okay, so we owe about $182 on our house.

Speaker 2 We bought it for $265. What's it worth?

Speaker 2 It's now probably worth about $700 on the low end, I would say.

Speaker 2 It does need a renovation.

Speaker 2 We bought it when we had nothing. It was kind of an up-and-coming neighborhood, and it has just exploded.
So our mortgage right now is about $1,700. I could rent it as is, probably for about $2,700.

Speaker 2 I wouldn't do that. Keep rolling.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 So,

Speaker 2 and basically, that's kind of what I want to know is

Speaker 2 I kind of want to keep the house because I think it would be a great rental.

Speaker 2 I also just love the house. I love the neighborhood.

Speaker 2 If it was paid off, I wouldn't necessarily disagree with that if you were also paying for your next house in cash. Yeah.
So then that's so the next house,

Speaker 2 the houses in this neighborhood go for like 1.5. Okay.
So

Speaker 2 we could rent it, we could sell it. If we rent it,

Speaker 2 we would need to do some renovations like kitchen, bathroom, our current house.

Speaker 2 Well, I don't think you can have it. Should we take the million and put it all towards the other home?

Speaker 2 Should we take $100 or two and put it towards renovations for this property and $1,300 on the other home? Yeah, I don't think you can have your cake and eat it too on this.

Speaker 2 I think that there's a really clear path forward, which would be if

Speaker 2 you're going to have $1 million, the house you own is worth about $500, a little less once fees and everything are accounted for. And the house you want is $1.5.
That's the money right there.

Speaker 2 So without looking at the other factors, because I have to ask you more questions, but let's just say, hey, I want a house that's $1.5 million.

Speaker 2 Selling your current house gets you the $1.5 million to pay cash for it.

Speaker 2 I wouldn't do a situation where I do a little bit on this house, rent it while it still has a mortgage, and then put a little on the next house and have a mortgage there.

Speaker 2 I feel like there's a way for you to do this really clean and come out on top.

Speaker 2 The only way, the only other way would be to

Speaker 2 take the 182

Speaker 2 and pay that off

Speaker 2 and then buy a less expensive second house. And then you could do

Speaker 2 the two things at one time. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 2 from a math perspective, it makes sense.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but let me tell you why I don't think it makes sense and why I agree with Jade.

Speaker 2 Wait a minute. What's the other perspective other than math? We're talking about money.

Speaker 2 That's right. I know.
I know. Well, his wife, he wants to stay.

Speaker 1 So Kevin wants to stay where he is.

Speaker 1 The wife wants the nice upgrade of the neighborhood. That's true.

Speaker 2 Listen. That's true.
That's true. I know.

Speaker 1 So let me throw this out.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 Okay. As to why I like Jade's idea, and I want to give you real numbers, Kevin.

Speaker 2 But before you do, we have to ask a couple of key questions to even see, does my idea work? Because we don't know. Do you guys have debt? Do you have

Speaker 2 tell us about your debt? Tell us about your income. Tell us more.
Okay, so

Speaker 2 I do have a car.

Speaker 2 So we have about 20,000 left on a car.

Speaker 2 I'll pay that tomorrow. I'll pay it off tomorrow.
So that's done.

Speaker 2 After I pay the $20,000 left on my car, our emergency fund fund will be down to about 27,000

Speaker 2 it should be about 115

Speaker 2 for six months

Speaker 2 for six months yeah dang yeah they're crushing it love it what's the income

Speaker 1 our our income is currently about 350 let's go okay good so here's the deal all right i've heard everything i need to hear jade yeah me too kevin you don't need to be a landlord because and i just don't think it makes any sense here's why okay

Speaker 1 um

Speaker 1 You only are talking about right now,

Speaker 1 if

Speaker 1 you owe $1,700 a month, you're paying for it on mortgage. You said it was about $2,700 that you would get in rent.
That's $1,000 a month.

Speaker 2 That is a whopping. On the low end, on the low end.

Speaker 1 Kevin, don't fight me on this one. Don't fight me on this one.
That's a whopping $12,000 a year. Let's up it a little bit.
You're going to make $15,000 a year gross on renting this house. Yes or no?

Speaker 2 Gross. Sure.
All right. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Now, I know you're talking about putting money in it to renovate it, just to rent it. It's just burning cash.

Speaker 1 I would sell it, pay off the debt that you have left, and take, like Jade said, take the rest of it and put it to the down payment with the million dollars and buy a sweet house in a sweet neighborhood cash because you're not making much money.

Speaker 1 Even if you pay it off, Jade gave you a second scenario. You pay off the 182, now you're in it.
You're still only clearing about 25 to 30 grand a year. And I'm being generous because that's gross.

Speaker 1 That's not including rental costs,

Speaker 1 maintenance. Dude, it is not all it's cracked up to be.

Speaker 2 Okay, we talked earlier about money and the math part of it. And you are right.
There is more to money than math.

Speaker 2 It might not weigh as heavily, but is this like the house that you had your children in? Is this the house? Like, this clearly has some sentimental value. It feels like it's more about that than

Speaker 2 the real estate side.

Speaker 2 There is certainly sentimental value. I mean, if I'm paying $1,700,

Speaker 2 if I'm paying $1,700 a month for this house,

Speaker 2 and just also looking at trends of

Speaker 2 kids moving back in with their parents and everything,

Speaker 2 I could probably, in 10 or 15 years, I could probably

Speaker 2 afford for my son to live here temporarily

Speaker 2 to get his life set up.

Speaker 2 whenever he graduates from college or my other two kids, you know, and it could just be sort of the house that we have that lets the kids roll through.

Speaker 2 I also think it's a great investment like this area that we're in now is just exploding and has become very popular. And so

Speaker 2 I feel like if we were to sell right now, we would be leaving money on the table because

Speaker 2 it's just going up in value so, so, so much. Why, then tell me this.

Speaker 2 Now I'm sensing something else. It's like we've got this million dollars.
It's going to be burning a hole in our pocket. We've got to do something with it.

Speaker 2 What would it look like to just say, hey,

Speaker 2 let's sit on this for a minute? Because in any other scenario, whenever somebody comes into a large amount of money like that, we tell them to wait, like chill out for a minute, get used to the idea.

Speaker 2 I'll tell you what it is.

Speaker 2 His wife wants it. That's the challenge.
And I know, I think you're moving too fast.

Speaker 2 She wants to move into this other. I mean, our life is in this other neighborhood.
All of our friends are in the other neighborhood. It don't matter.

Speaker 2 All of our kids' friends are in the other neighborhood. But you don't feel right about it.
If you don't feel right about it, don't do it. She doesn't feel right.

Speaker 1 This is a therapy session.

Speaker 1 I mean it.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 They are both on different ends of the spectrum. And boy, oh, boy, I've been married long enough to know how that turns out.
This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 The Ramsey Show continues. I'm Ken Coleman, Jade Warshaw with you as well.
888-825-5225. Let's go to Erin in Augusta, Georgia.
Erin, how can we help?

Speaker 2 Yes, so my husband and I have been married for about four, five years this year, and my daughter is 11, and we have a difference of opinion on what we should spend on her.

Speaker 2 We get along great, we communicate great, but when it comes to this, we cannot agree. And I would just like some unbiased opinion.
It's everything from she needs something from school.

Speaker 2 to school summer camps. I feel like she should be able to go to summer camp and not sit in front of a tablet all summer

Speaker 2 when he thinks those are a little ridiculous because they are so expensive and that we should not really spend anything extra outside of what our child support is to spend anything on her.

Speaker 2 What do you mean?

Speaker 2 Hold on a second.

Speaker 1 What do you mean child support?

Speaker 2 So I get child support from her dad every month, obviously. Okay, gotcha.
But that's the only money that I should use for

Speaker 2 being school related. $300 a month.

Speaker 1 And so your husband is going

Speaker 1 outside of medical and groceries and just keeping this child alive, anything outside of the basics has to come out of the $300 a month from your ex.

Speaker 2 Yes, sir. Interesting.

Speaker 2 What's your combined incomes?

Speaker 2 $150,000. Okay.

Speaker 1 How often does this happen?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Like, is this a weekly or monthly, or is this just in some of the bigger things like you described, like summer camp and

Speaker 2 everything. Why do you think she's scrutinizing it so much?

Speaker 2 Because

Speaker 2 she is a brat. She's 11.
She

Speaker 2 has a little bit of an attitude. They don't get along.
Do they get along? No, not at all. Got you, got you.
And her biological dad buys her everything she asks for every single time.

Speaker 2 Okay, so she's over. spoiled.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 2 Is she spoiled or does she just get what she needs?

Speaker 2 No, she's spoiled when it comes to her dad. Okay, so,

Speaker 2 okay.

Speaker 2 There's a lot going on here. I kind of wish Dr.
John was here. There's a lot going on here because on the one hand, it's like, as a parent, I don't say to my son,

Speaker 2 you're acting, you're acting a type of way right now.

Speaker 2 And so because of that, I'm not going to, I'm, I'm not going to make sure you have the things you need for school or I'm not going to put you in summer camp.

Speaker 2 Like, that's not my, that feels retaliatory. And so I don't feel like that's the spirit that we should be making our boundaries out of.

Speaker 2 That, the spirit that we make our boundaries out of is our budget and what makes what's a logical use of

Speaker 2 money for a child, right? That's the spirit that we use to do that. Right.

Speaker 2 I'm curious.

Speaker 1 How old was she when you guys got married?

Speaker 1 Six.

Speaker 1 Was he this way from day one?

Speaker 2 Yes. Okay.

Speaker 1 That's what I'm doing.

Speaker 2 He is very much, I don't want to spend money on anything.

Speaker 1 So, okay, and so what I was, here's, let me tell you why I asked that question.

Speaker 1 I'm trying to figure out if this is because she's a brat and he resents her because she's also not his biological daughter. These are all reasonable things that a human being could be struggling with.

Speaker 1 And And I say that, by the way, Aaron, not from judgment, but a sense of understanding.

Speaker 1 But the fact that you said he was this way day one tells me this is more his scarcity mindset about money.

Speaker 1 Rachel Cruz wrote a book, Know Yourself, Know Your Money, a few years ago, and it was a genius book, in my opinion. And I think he's got from his childhood, his, so I would say there's two Es.

Speaker 1 It's our experience and our environment. So his environment growing up shapes his view of money, and then his experience with money up to this point shapes his view of money.

Speaker 1 So, since he was that way day one,

Speaker 1 sure, he could have still had some resentment,

Speaker 1 but it would have been very small just in her position as not his biological daughter. I think it's more that he's a scarcity mindset guy with money.
He's scared to death.

Speaker 1 It's hoard, hoard, the resources, not a hoarder.

Speaker 2 But does he do that in other areas? Is my question. Is he

Speaker 2 a tight wad in the other categories, or is it just as it relates to your daughter?

Speaker 2 Both. He is a tight wad, but he will spend things.

Speaker 2 If I wanted something, sure, I could have it. But he grew up.
If he wanted something, he had to work for it. So that's exactly what he's doing.
Okay, so

Speaker 1 I think he also resents your ex

Speaker 1 in how he spends so lavishly on her.

Speaker 2 And so I do too.

Speaker 1 You do too. So you know what he's doing? He's correcting.
He's course correcting whether he realizes it or not.

Speaker 2 Right. All right.
But I, at the same time, feel like I should be able to buy things for her and not feel any kind of way about it.

Speaker 2 I'm not saying going overboard. Uh-huh.

Speaker 2 So it's you guys deciding on what's a normal amount and what's considered overboard.

Speaker 1 Yeah, this is a, I think this is a therapy session for four.

Speaker 1 Because I think you need a, here's what I believe. I really believe that you two need to get with a marriage therapist and it's a safe place.
What's great is you guys are not in crisis.

Speaker 1 You told us you guys get along on everything else. So this should not be too painful, but it might be difficult to get to a middle ground.
And I think you need a, I mean, appreciate you calling us.

Speaker 1 We're not marriage therapists, but I think getting a objective, licensed marriage therapist who can get you two in the room together and we find middle ground on this because I hearing what I hear, Jade, I'm in the middle.

Speaker 1 I think he's probably way too tight. Yes.
But I think you also need to come his way,

Speaker 1 not in giving in to his demands,

Speaker 1 but understanding maybe where he's coming from. I think this is solved with a lot of understanding.

Speaker 2 And the daughter needs to understand because she feels it and probably doesn't know what that is, right?

Speaker 2 She feels going over to dad's house and it's like, I get what I want. Then she feels going over to your house and it's like, do these people hate me? With nothing.
Right.

Speaker 2 right

Speaker 2 and it's I've told him I don't tell him every time she asks for something because I do say no a lot

Speaker 2 but all he hears is when I'm in agreeance and she's like all she does is ask for stuff and I'm like well she's 11 yeah yeah I mean they're gonna ask and you can say no but I I mean the example you gave about going to summer camp you know it depends on what summer camp it depends on how much I mean there's a lot of

Speaker 2 ways that can go

Speaker 1 so Jade that's where the budget comes in.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's why I said this has to be guided by the budget, right? It's not just a free-for-all on any side.

Speaker 2 We don't just stop it because we just feel like we're going to stop it, but we also don't spend whatever we want.

Speaker 2 So it's you guys looking at your budget and going, okay, like, what's a reasonable amount to spend here?

Speaker 2 Well, and I've asked him that. I'm like, give me a number.
And he was like, $500. I'm like, that spends one camp.
So you got three months. I get one camp.

Speaker 2 And she's going to sit in front of of her phone the other day.

Speaker 2 Well now that part, let's go to the next extreme because just because she doesn't go to camp doesn't mean she has to sit in front of where I come from.

Speaker 2 We went outside and we had to play on our own and we played basketball and we played.

Speaker 1 Don't get me started.

Speaker 2 We'd play with a stick and a box. Okay, make it happen.
And so that

Speaker 2 the caveat is we work full-time, so she's with her dad all summer who lets her do whatever she wants. Being on the phone is what it happens.

Speaker 1 Well, but again, to Jade's point, I think Jade's locked in on something here, Aaron. I've changed my opinion a little bit.

Speaker 1 I thought the man giving you 500 bucks for a summer, that's plenty of money to spend on her, if that's what I'm hearing.

Speaker 1 And I think you have to adjust your life and her lifestyle.

Speaker 1 Like, great, you work. So, come up with a better plan than she's just at her dad's all the time getting spoiled.

Speaker 1 So, make a fix to that. But throwing more money at it doesn't solve all these issues.
It just doesn't. You could send her to camp all the time.

Speaker 1 He's still like, this is, you still got to come back to, I think, therapy and a budget. And I think this guy is probably a little bit more reasonable than he sounds.

Speaker 2 I think so.

Speaker 1 But he needs a good reason why.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.
Yes.

Speaker 2 I think he does, but my reasoning isn't good enough. And I think we argue so bad about it, we just avoid it at this point.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's the therapy part of it.

Speaker 1 I think therapy will change this in such a positive way. I'm hopeful.
Like, I really believe this.

Speaker 1 If you guys submit to this process and go in and go, okay, we're going to allow ourselves to be open to this process and meet in the middle.

Speaker 1 I think you guys can solve this. I do too.
It's complex given the relationship with the divorce and

Speaker 1 the dad and all this stuff. That's tough, but you guys can figure it out.
This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to The Ramsey Show, alongside Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman.
Thrilled to have you with us. 888-825-5225.
Triple 8-825-5225 is the phone number.

Speaker 1 Our Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by YReFi. YReFi refinances defaulted private student loans, which are different than federal student loans.

Speaker 1 Why ReFi refinances your defaulted private student loan and builds a custom loan based on your ability to pay.

Speaker 1 So kick your private student loan debt out of your life by going to yrefi.com/slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y, YREFY.com R E F

Speaker 1 slash Ramsey. May not be available in all states.

Speaker 2 Alrighty then. Today's question comes from Olivia in Mississippi.
She says, last week I was approached by a friend who recently became a multi-level marketing representative.

Speaker 2 She asked me to join her team and said that many money experts recommended their company as a side hustle to get out of debt. Not this money expert.
She said that she had been skeptical.

Speaker 2 when she first started, but the checks were clearing and they weren't doing anything illegal. They emphasize that the business is not about recruiting people, but doing so leads to earning more money.

Speaker 2 Hmm. Is this going to cost me more money than I would be making? Or does that depend on me and how wisely I use this business?

Speaker 2 She's asking us like we're the gurus of this multi-level marketing business. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I don't even know how you do it. I would just steer clear of it altogether if I were you in your shoes.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I mean, I've, can I just, okay, let me confess something. I have have fallen victim to this before, like back in the day.
Oh, you did? Yeah. I just graduated.
Let me tell you the quick story.

Speaker 2 I just graduated college. I was working in the mall and a guy came in to my store in a nice suit.
And I thought I was helping him sell, selling him a suit.

Speaker 2 And he was like, you know, you're a sharp young lady. He kept calling me a sharp young lady.
And then he said, you know, I'm looking for people just like you to work in my business.

Speaker 2 You know, and I was like, you know, I'm in college. I'm like, okay, I can make some money.
He starts telling me you can make six figures a year. And I'm like, really?

Speaker 2 Like, I was falling for a hook line and sinker. Right.
Ended up going to lunch with him with my Sam, who was my fiancé at the time.

Speaker 2 And we still didn't understand it was multi-level marketing at the time. And he's like, yeah, you know, you know, all you have to do.
And then, and here's the thing.

Speaker 2 When he showed up at lunch, he showed up in a really nice Mercedes. And I was like, this guy's making money.
He's got all the drinks. Whatever he's doing.
Right.

Speaker 2 Then he starts talking about energy drinks. And I'm like, energy drinks.
And I realized that's what I'd be selling is energy drinks.

Speaker 1 That's the product.

Speaker 2 Well, it was the one product he decided to highlight. Then he says, man, let me tell you about my boss.
He is killing it.

Speaker 2 He takes us over to his boss's house that he described his boss as like living in a mansion. Boss is living in like a normal, nice house.

Speaker 2 And you still, and you still got sucked.

Speaker 2 Listen, I bought the energy drinks. I can't even remember what they're called.
I couldn't sell one dakum. It was energy drinks, paper towels.

Speaker 2 His shtick was, I mean, everybody needs needs paper towels everybody needs i've heard that before toilet paper was the one that i heard toilet paper yeah yeah and i'm like i didn't sell one that good how much money did you have to front i think it was like 150 or something like that wasn't it wasn't a whole lot yeah

Speaker 1 yeah i mean listen i'm with you i just think this whole thing just sounds like a house of cards and you just shouldn't invest your time into this yeah i wouldn't i wouldn't i mean the truth is i yeah i guess there are people who are making money doing it oh first of all there are people who crush it.

Speaker 1 Make no mistake.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, I'm not saying there's not.

Speaker 1 But just the way the tone of the question, everything else,

Speaker 1 this doesn't sound like it's the right thing for you. You got to be really focused.
And by the way, let's be very clear. All of those models are based on recruiting people.
That's right.

Speaker 2 They are. So I don't like the dishonesty of saying it's not about that.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Pass. Hard pass.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I, by the way, I like to buy my toilet paper from a store.

Speaker 2 I do, too.

Speaker 1 Not from somebody dropping it off in a bag.

Speaker 2 Do you know what I mean? Yeah.

Speaker 1 That was always the thing for me.

Speaker 1 My parents got into that for a while. And I was like, we got all this toilet paper at our house and like gum and all the things.

Speaker 2 Energy children talking about? It's like,

Speaker 2 what are we doing?

Speaker 1 Oh, gosh. Oh, that's good.
All right, let's get back to the phones. Marie is joining us in South Bend, Indiana.
Marie, how can we help?

Speaker 2 Hello.

Speaker 2 So I am wondering how my husband and I should prepare for planning to pay for college for two children under two without overfunding a 529 plan, and if we should potentially also look at other investment options to help set them up outside of the 529 plan.

Speaker 2 Yeah, okay, so you're on baby step five?

Speaker 2 We're on like 456, yes. Okay, great.
So you're currently putting away the 15% for your retirement, and then on top of that, how much are you able to kind of put into these 529s every month?

Speaker 2 Right now, probably just like a couple of hundred dollars.

Speaker 2 The big thing is that my husband actually works at a university

Speaker 2 who will pay half of whatever their tuition is to go anywhere else. That's awesome.
That's great. Okay.
Which makes most state schools and even some like smaller private universities

Speaker 2 like very cheap or completely free. Yeah.
How old are they?

Speaker 2 How old are they? The oldest, yeah, the oldest is two. So that's the big thing of like things can change.
He has no intentions of leaving, but if he does, then we do lose that benefit. That's true.

Speaker 2 I mean, yeah, this is a long, long way in the future. A lot can change in many, many ways, but it is a cool thing to have right now.

Speaker 2 If I were you, the amount that you're funding, what is it, did you say $100 per kid? every month? Yeah.

Speaker 2 I don't think that's going to get you to the point that you're just busting at the seams with cash because there could still be books, there could be other things to spend that money on.

Speaker 2 And they're two. So as you get closer, you can decide to pull back.
You can decide to ramp up. You can decide, do you see what I'm saying?

Speaker 2 Like you don't, this is not something that you have to lock in and you can't change at any point. You have a lot of freedom here.

Speaker 2 Right. And we were hoping to start contributing more,

Speaker 2 but we're just trying to figure out how much do we put into a 529 knowing what room and board we would be on the hook for have you projected it have you projected what that $100 per kid will be when it's time for them to go to school

Speaker 2 I have not. I need to.
Okay.

Speaker 2 I would do that. I would do that.
I would look at the 529 that you're interested in.

Speaker 2 I would look at the average rate of return for that and see, okay, if I put $100 in here, you know, after 16 years, what's it going to be? And then you can decide, okay, let's work backwards.

Speaker 2 How much do we think room and board will be? And kind of work backwards from there. And that's what I, that's, if I were in your shoes, that's where I would start.

Speaker 2 Perfect.

Speaker 2 And if you get to the point where we are potentially going to overfund it, are there other investment opportunities that you would look at doing to help set them up for when they graduate and things like that?

Speaker 2 So what I would do at that point, once I funded a 529, working through the baby steps, if I had extra money after that, I would put it towards paying off my house.

Speaker 2 And then once I've paid off my house, then I would start looking at other things that I could do.

Speaker 2 I know my husband and I, one of our big goals is to have a fund for our kids to help them buy their first house, like that sort of thing. But that comes after mama and papa pay off their house.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Right. Yeah.
And ours will be paid off here in a few years. So

Speaker 2 then I'm trying to think. Yeah.
After that, then I just probably start with a brokerage account, something that you can dip into. It's not part of your retirement.

Speaker 2 And you can gift them a certain amount each year, you know, under the gift tax. You and your husband are both entitled.
What is it? 14?

Speaker 2 I can't remember off the top of my head.

Speaker 1 I don't remember the exact amount. You'll have to check it.

Speaker 2 And it might be different by then, but that's what I would do.

Speaker 2 And that way you can kind of see, okay, here's the amount that I can gift them every year, or here's the amount that I can gift them as a lump sum.

Speaker 2 And again, you guys can kind of project out and see, okay, what do we think that we want to be able to give them? How long would it take us to save it at the rate rate that we're able to save?

Speaker 2 Perfect. Yeah, makes sense.
All right.

Speaker 1 Thanks for the call, Marie.

Speaker 2 Good thought.

Speaker 1 Love it. Love when parents are thinking about that.

Speaker 1 And by the way, I think that advice is great to kind of go, okay, looking at tuition now, there's really no way to know what tuition is going to look like.

Speaker 1 Just the way that the higher ed industry is kind of evolving right now. I mean,

Speaker 1 so it's kind of like, you got to do your best with those projections to kind of go, okay, based on where we are right now, adjust for inflation, and then you kind of back into your number.

Speaker 2 And his was based on a work benefit that who knows in 16 years

Speaker 2 where they'll be.

Speaker 1 All right, let's go to San Antonio. Oh, wait, actually, no, we're not.

Speaker 2 Look at that.

Speaker 1 The little ding cut me off. That's right.
We are running out of time in this segment. So we will take a quick commercial break.
Don't move. The phone lines are lightened up.

Speaker 1 Triple 8-825-5225 is the number. Alongside Jay Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman.
You're listening to The Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Welcome to the Ramsey Show America, where we're here to coach you up so you're winning in your money, winning in your profession, and winning with your relationships.

Speaker 1 Alongside Jade Dorshaw, I'm Ken Coleman. The phone number, jump in is 888-825-5225.
888-825-5225.

Speaker 1 We're going to start it with Nicole, who's joining us in Toronto.

Speaker 2 Nicole, how can we help?

Speaker 2 Hi, I've been with my boyfriend for some time now, and basically, for the last year, we've been kind of planning to buy a house together.

Speaker 2 So I've been going through the steps and saving money, and recently he's been kind of hinting at the fact that he's going to propose soon.

Speaker 2 So I kind of sat down with him to see over the last year how much he's saved towards this house. So we kind of know where we're falling.

Speaker 2 And I discovered after a year that he basically hasn't saved any money.

Speaker 2 And during that period of the year, I have been taking on most of the financial burdens because I make significantly more money than he does.

Speaker 2 I'm kind of

Speaker 2 shocked by the fact that he hasn't saved any money and I don't really know how to go forward. So I wanted your advice.

Speaker 2 Yeah, good question.

Speaker 2 On the one hand, I get why you're concerned because in you guys's relationship, it sounds like there was kind of an agreed-on point that you wanted to reach and you were going to try to reach it together.

Speaker 2 And it seems like he hasn't, you know, held up his side of the deal. But from my perspective, I would say

Speaker 2 he doesn't have to contribute to this at all because it's really not a great idea idea for you guys to buy a house together if you're not married.

Speaker 2 And it's really not a great idea for you guys to be combining your money in any sort of way if you're not married. It's really great for you guys to say, okay, say you do live together.

Speaker 2 I'm paying my portion. You pay your portion, but we're not doing this thing together until there's some legality protection surrounding it in marriage.
I agree with that.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 1 Nicole, how did you feel? I've got a point to make after I ask you this question.

Speaker 2 How did you feel? Oh, that's actually when you found out. That was actually the plan.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Sorry, I don't mean to interrupt you. Go ahead.

Speaker 2 But the plan is not to buy the house until we get married. That's why he's telling me that the engagement is coming soon.

Speaker 2 So like that's we're getting the ducks in the row for, okay, we're engaged now.

Speaker 2 That means after we do the wedding, we're going to be buying the house, but the house is going to be the biggest fee, right? I see, I see, I see. Yeah, but

Speaker 1 how did you feel? What emotions and thoughts did you have when you found out that he hadn't been saving any money?

Speaker 2 I was was absolutely devastated because he's living at home with his, we don't live together now, he's living at home with his family.

Speaker 2 And I've been printing the money on everything, all of our dates. I've been putting away tons of money, and I make three times the amount of money he does.

Speaker 2 How long have you been dating?

Speaker 2 Just over a year.

Speaker 1 I think this is a very clear,

Speaker 1 I'm going to call it yellow light.

Speaker 2 Oh, I would have said red flag.

Speaker 1 Well, you always surprise me. feel I think it's a yellow light.
I think in the sense of this, what I mean by yellow light is

Speaker 1 proceed with caution. No, it's we sit down.
She doesn't dump him. Red light to me is dumping, leaves him.
I'm out. Yellow light is sit down and go, we need to do some premarital.

Speaker 1 I mean, if we're talking this, we need to get in alignment on this because this is what I was devastated.

Speaker 1 And you may have already shared that with him, Nicole. but even if you have, there needs to be a true alignment conversation.

Speaker 1 And is he going to show you in the days and weeks and months ahead that he understands your values and is in alignment with your values and he begins to save some money?

Speaker 1 I would not even say yes to his proposal. I wouldn't move forward on anything until that.
That's what I mean by yellow light.

Speaker 2 I agree with that.

Speaker 2 I think Ken and I are saying the same thing. We just used different colors because red for me means like, let's stop and see if anything dangerous, else dangerous is happening.

Speaker 2 And so my question for him would be like, okay, you've not been saving. Can you tell me why, why?

Speaker 2 And then can you tell me like, well, what have you been using your money for instead? Because you're still living at home.

Speaker 2 I would have real questions and I would want real answers because that's indicative of what it will be like in your marriage when you speak about money.

Speaker 2 Well, I know the answer to that. I did ask that question.
And the majority of his money has been spent on food and video video games again

Speaker 1 massive massive like uh like construction sign going watch out watch out cliff ahead you know i i nicole are you feeling that too

Speaker 1 yeah that's what that's why i'm calling because it's okay so can i play if i if i could play older brother or i might be old enough to be your dad for all i know i would just tell you that this is a serious, serious conversation.

Speaker 2 He needs to make some changes in his life if he wants to be in your life that would be my bumper sticker what what do you see about him that's really i want to go in another direction what do you see about him that is really great that you go this guy this guy's got motivation this guy's got that thing this guy like tell me those things i'm just curious

Speaker 2 uh why i love him um

Speaker 2 He has been my rock. Like I've opened up a ton of new businesses in the last year.
And every single one I've done, he's He's had my back through every single one. He's so genuine.

Speaker 2 He is so sweet and he is so kind-hearted. I've never met a man like him in my life.
Okay, I like that. Listen,

Speaker 2 I'm going to say something really harsh and I realize this.

Speaker 2 You can get all of those things from a pet.

Speaker 2 Support, somebody to be there to talk about. I want you to be able to say deeper things.
Does that make sense?

Speaker 1 Oh, it makes sense.

Speaker 2 I love this.

Speaker 1 I love you're bringing the heat.

Speaker 2 What you said, like that's a golden retriever and we love that. That's why we love our animals.
They're, they're always there for us, unconditionally, you know, they're, they're there to support us.

Speaker 1 They've got that, that, um, by the way, he's doing by playing video games and buying fast food, he is essentially the same as a golden retriever there as well, just costing you money.

Speaker 2 Costing you money. And I want to hear you say, you know,

Speaker 2 he, this guy, you know, he, if you were to ask me or my husband that same question, it would be more about

Speaker 2 what they bring out of us and what I see when I go when I go, oh man, nobody works harder than Sam Warshaw. Like that's inspiring to me.

Speaker 2 The way he will get up and do whatever it takes to take care of his family, the way that he'll take care of his kids, like the way he's sacrificed for us year after year, like those are the things that I want to hear.

Speaker 2 And I'm not hearing that. That's why I kind of flipped it to see, okay, how is, what do you guys mean to each other? And what roles are you playing? And is it beyond just,

Speaker 2 well, you know, they're there when I need them? You know, and what does that even mean?

Speaker 1 He's a very sweet guy. a nice guy all the things he's also a pretty decent gamer sounds like you know but we got to

Speaker 1 you see where I'm going Nicole I got a level I got a chuckle out of you I mean listen

Speaker 1 you can love someone

Speaker 1 and decide to also say they're not the person that they need to be right now for me to decide to marry them yes I think this is a very real conversation.

Speaker 1 Back in my day, we used DTR to find the relationship. Kids don't know what that means, I'm sure.
DTR. I'm sure I dated myself again on that.
But I think that's what's got to happen. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I think so too.

Speaker 2 Give her the.

Speaker 1 All right. So give her the, you're the strong female.
I think she's the strong female. Give her 30 seconds on how she starts that conversation with our guy.

Speaker 2 Oh, boy, how she starts the conversation. Or sets it up.
I've been thinking.

Speaker 2 Okay, give me more. I've been thinking, you know,

Speaker 2 I love you because you've always been there for me. You've been my rock, but I really really needed you to be there for me.

Speaker 2 I really needed you to show up when it came time to talk about our goals as a couple. And when it came to our goals as a couple, you let me down.
You didn't show up with your side of the money.

Speaker 2 You said you were going to do this. You said you were going to do that.
And I haven't seen that. And this is the first time you've let me down.

Speaker 2 And unfortunately, it's in an area that really matters to me because it's not just about you or me. It's about us.
Wow. Is that all right?

Speaker 1 Oh, it's good. It's got all right? I think it's going to get his attention.

Speaker 1 Well done.

Speaker 2 Whew.

Speaker 1 Poor guy. But he's going to have to stand up at some point.
He is. We'll be right back.
This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to The Ramsey Show alongside Jade Warshaw and Ken Coleman. Glad to have you with us.
Triple 8-825-5225 is the phone number.

Speaker 1 Hey, folks, as the Ramsey work guy here, helping you win at work so you can make more money. Really excited to tell you, I've been dreaming up a concept for a long time.
Jade, you know this.

Speaker 1 It's called Front Row Seat, where we're having deep dive conversations with movers and shakers, thought leaders, people that are successful from every walk of life, designed to do three things.

Speaker 1 to get better as a person so that I take a better version of me to work so I can move up the ladder professionally. And then as I move up the ladder, I'm going to be put in a leadership position.

Speaker 1 How do I lead? And so helping you grow in your professional development is called Front Row Seat.

Speaker 1 And it is now out on YouTube, wherever you get podcasts. So check it out, front row seat.
It's a lot of fun. Here's what's unique about it.

Speaker 1 We have a live audience, and the audience sits with me and the guest, and they get a chance to ask questions as well. So it's not just me asking questions.

Speaker 1 I wanted the audience to be able to learn as I'm learning, engage with me, with our guest, and they also represent the larger audience.

Speaker 1 So download front row seat, or not download, subscribe wherever you get your podcast. And on YouTube, just search front row seat with Ken Coleman.

Speaker 2 Yay.

Speaker 1 All right, let's go to Orlando, Florida, where Mo joins us. What's up, Mo?

Speaker 2 Hey, how are you guys doing today? Good. How are you?

Speaker 2 I'm well. So

Speaker 2 I've just been doing research with my

Speaker 2 financials, and then I came across George Camel on YouTube, and then that's why I saw the Ramsey show.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you gotta love George.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah. Yes, sir.

Speaker 2 He's very amusing on YouTube. So if you guys ever see him, please give him a thank you for how he does.

Speaker 1 Believe me, I'm going to tell him on the next break because he loves hearing it.

Speaker 2 How can we help you? So

Speaker 2 my question is,

Speaker 2 so with the baby steps, I feel like I'm in limbo between baby step two and baby step three.

Speaker 2 I have

Speaker 2 $6,000 right now in my HYSA, so I feel step one is definitely complete.

Speaker 2 So my financial situation, my wife and I, we closed on a home in June of 2023 out in California. Our mortgage is

Speaker 2 sorry, expense-wise, we're socking away $5,200 a month into another HYSA to cover the mortgage, property taxes, and insurance. Okay, so you moved, let me just make sure I understand.

Speaker 2 You moved from California. You hadn't sold the house, so right now you're still paying for the the house?

Speaker 2 No, I'm I'm gonna I'm moving out to California. You're moving out to California.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 I think I understand. So that's so that's the mortgage there.
And then I have non-traditional student loans. My

Speaker 2 parents, my parents had a 529 plan for me and my sibling, and

Speaker 2 they want half of the money back of what they totally spent for my college university. And then

Speaker 2 okay, hold on. Let me clarify.
Let me clarify and make sure I understand that. Are you telling me your parents created a 529?

Speaker 2 You use the money for education and they're like, hey, pay us back some of what you used from the 529?

Speaker 2 Correct.

Speaker 2 That's wild. Okay, how much do they want?

Speaker 2 They only want 50% back of what my costs were. Which is what?

Speaker 2 Which is $75,000 now. That's wild.

Speaker 1 I've never heard of a parent investing in a $529 and then saying, hey, kiddo, pay me half of it back.

Speaker 2 Did you know that on the front side? Or is this new information?

Speaker 2 No, this was when I was a teenager in high school. So you knew?

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 2 Okay. Okay.
That's okay. Whatever you guys decided, that's the deal.
All right. This is different.

Speaker 2 What else? So you owe your parents $75,000. You've got $6,000 in the HYSA.
Why did you say earlier that since you had $6,000 in the HYSA, you had moved from baby step two to baby step three?

Speaker 2 No, no, no. I moved from baby step one, and now I feel like I'm in limbo between baby step two and baby step three.
Okay, got it. Well, technically, well, let me clear that up.

Speaker 2 You are in baby step two, because baby step two is we pay off all of our consumer debt, anything except our home, if we have a mortgage at that point. So you are in baby step two, and part of that is

Speaker 2 taking your savings down to a thousand and putting the rest at the debt. So in in this case, yeah, you'd be dropping that HYSA down to a thousand and throwing the rest at the debt.

Speaker 2 Is there any other debt aside from the student loans?

Speaker 2 The

Speaker 2 yeah, for the so we when my wife and I closed on our home, we don't have PMI, so the other 10% came from a loan from her parents.

Speaker 2 Okay, and how much was that loan?

Speaker 2 That

Speaker 2 now I believe is,

Speaker 2 I think it's $50,000. Ooh, sir.
Okay.

Speaker 2 Man, let me tell you something. I'm going to be flat out.
I'm going to be straight up with you.

Speaker 2 Owing money to like debt and creditors sucks, but it kind of feels worse when you owe it to family members because they have

Speaker 2 a different emotion. It's a different emotion.

Speaker 2 I want you to get out of debt so quickly. Okay, so you're moving to California.
You've got the house. What are you going to be making?

Speaker 2 My gross salary last year was $137,000, and I'm predicting it'll go up.

Speaker 2 It's not a predictable salary. It's predictable in that the salary will increase, but it's not a predictable number per year.

Speaker 2 What about your wife?

Speaker 2 She's predictable at around, I think her gross last year was $80,000.

Speaker 2 Okay, so you guys are going to be a little bit over $200,000, like maybe $210,000?

Speaker 2 That sounds about correct, was our gross income for last year. Okay, and so

Speaker 2 I just want to make sure because your mortgage is $5,200 a month.

Speaker 2 What's your mortgage?

Speaker 2 The mortgage is $4,252 a month.

Speaker 2 And then we also sock away extra money. Property taxes are

Speaker 2 now

Speaker 2 increasing.

Speaker 2 It's about $8,400 a year now. And then California does its 2% increase from Prop 13.
Yeah. And then we also stock away extra money for the insurance.
I have a question.

Speaker 2 I have a question in all of this because I'm trying to track with you on the math as much as I can, but I don't know these direct numbers.

Speaker 2 What percentage of your take-home is your mortgage going to be? Because California is expensive tax-wise.

Speaker 2 And the number you you gave me the 4,000 that's not including taxes and insurance so what percentage is that have you done that math

Speaker 2 yeah uh I think it's about

Speaker 2 50 to 60 percent my guy

Speaker 2 I know it's supposed to be 25 percent yeah and you're not even a little bit over

Speaker 2 I we got to go back to the drawing board

Speaker 2 and I want that for you like I don't want you to be in this situation because you're about to be stressed today.

Speaker 1 I was going to ask, do you feel stress, Mo, when you start thinking through this?

Speaker 2 I have, but now

Speaker 2 I've accepted the terms of it and I feel relaxed because

Speaker 2 of the nature of my job, I feel content that my wife is, she is 20 minutes away from her parents. And the nature of my job, I'm gone for two weeks at a time.

Speaker 2 So emotionally, I feel okay because I know she has somebody to rely on while I'm gone.

Speaker 1 But you don't have any negative emotion about the lack of margin because of how much you're paying in mortgage.

Speaker 2 I used to.

Speaker 2 I've come to terms with it and accepted it. I mean, I'm just like percentage-wise, I just want to lay this out because I think you understand it conceptually, like on a very like

Speaker 2 not detailed level, but like actual numbers putting it in your budget. Because I'm looking at it like this.
I'm like, okay,

Speaker 2 15% in a little while, 15%, well, not for you, it's going to be a while, but at some point, 15% is going to go to investing, 10% is going to go to giving.

Speaker 2 You're at 60% on your mortgage. That leaves you 15% to live on.
That's not much.

Speaker 2 And at this point, that would be for paying off debt, which is going to take forever at that rate. So I strongly urge you to consider nothing's done that can't be undone, right?

Speaker 2 Like you don't have to stay in this situation. It might be, and I think that it is you not keeping this house.
It's too much house for you. You got to get out of this house.
That's what I would do.

Speaker 2 And then I'd work on paying off the debt that you owe to your family.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I agree. Thanks for the call, Mo.
Please reconsider. Don't move.
We'll be right back. This is The Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Alongside Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman.
Phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225. Triple 8-825-5225.
Ray is joining us now in Dallas. Ray, how can we help today?

Speaker 2 Good afternoon. Thank you so much for taking my call.
Sure.

Speaker 2 I have a bit of a unique situation, a little different than others.

Speaker 2 I'm in my late 70s. I'm quasi-retired.
And I've amassed an estate a little north of $30 million.

Speaker 2 Way to go, Ray.

Speaker 1 Come on now.

Speaker 2 We have no debt. We have no mortgages.

Speaker 2 We have no credit card debt. Everything is paid.
And

Speaker 2 we have approximately $17 million in cash and equities and the balance in property. Holy smokes.

Speaker 2 My question is that we've set up a very,

Speaker 2 I think, qualified estate plan with competent estate lawyers.

Speaker 2 And the beneficiaries of my estate are approximately a third, a third, a third. My daughter,

Speaker 2 my grandchildren, and my wife.

Speaker 2 The monies that are spinning off of our investments are more than my grandkids could legitimately or reasonably spend when they become of age.

Speaker 2 Right now, the estate plan calls for up to $250,000 per annum

Speaker 2 for my grandchildren. By the way, my grandchildren are six and nine.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 So they're going to build a lot of wealth over the next several years.

Speaker 2 When they're 21, they get a modest amount of money for five years, and then at 25, they begin to kick in. My question, a simple one, is $250,000 a year

Speaker 2 too much or too little, given the fact that

Speaker 2 the growth of the estate will be much larger than that.

Speaker 2 That is a good question. I don't know that I can tell you if it's too much or too little.
I think that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I would return that with a question. Do you think it's too much, or do you think it's too little, or do you think it's just right?

Speaker 2 And why? And we'll throw it back at you.

Speaker 2 Well, at this stage, you know, in our economy, in our country, I think it's it's just right.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 I'm concerned that there will be

Speaker 2 the growth of the investment portfolio,

Speaker 2 you know, it'll be selfish not to let them grab more of it.

Speaker 2 And the whole reason for having an estate is to take care of the little ones, you know, in the future when you don't know what's going to happen. That's right.

Speaker 1 However, you decided that $250,000 at this point in time does feel right.

Speaker 2 And it's per year, correct? Yes.

Speaker 2 Starting at 21?

Speaker 2 No, at 21, I think it was a little bit too much. So we're going to do five a month between 21 and 25, and then 250, and then I'm after 25,000.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I think it depends on, you know, I'm trying to channel Dave right now.

Speaker 2 I think gifts are really great. And I think

Speaker 2 how people use gifts depends on who they are as people. Because in one one person's hand, $250,000 a year is like, hey, this was my grandfather's legacy.
I'm going to do great things with it.

Speaker 2 It's not going to stop me from reaching my personal potential. It's not something that I'm going to use as a crutch in life.

Speaker 2 Whereas another personality, it could become, you know, really a stumbling block for them. So

Speaker 2 I wonder more about the type of language that's built in as far as

Speaker 2 who, what type of person does this grandchild have to be in order to get this money? And is there language language built in that says, if, if, if,

Speaker 2 if it's harming them, what takes place? Those are the things that I'm thinking about.

Speaker 2 And I know it's, you know, it's not like you can reach out from the beyond and control everything, but those are the things that I'm thinking about.

Speaker 2 The other part of this, and again, this is your estate. I am not trying to overstep.

Speaker 2 I see what you're saying. You're like, there's a lot of money that's going to be generated here.
I don't want to not let them have it.

Speaker 2 But I also wonder, okay, well, there's other things that you can give to

Speaker 2 that's not just

Speaker 2 kids and grandkids because

Speaker 2 it's in many ways like that you've got so much money. You can only give them so much without really giving them a ton of money.

Speaker 1 Right. How long would the 250 be paid out? Is it in perpetuity?

Speaker 2 Yes. I mean, we don't have a stop on it.
And then

Speaker 2 one would assume that they were.

Speaker 2 By the way, just to comment on your last statement, we have clauses in our estate plan. They have to be good people of good character,

Speaker 2 you know, drug and disease-free, and all of those people.

Speaker 2 And we have a very competent trustee

Speaker 2 and,

Speaker 2 you know, with a wonderful moral compass. And, you know, we're comfortable about that.
But I'll be gone.

Speaker 1 So let me ask you this then, Ray. So they get the 250 each year.
By the way, these are the grandkids we're talking about? Once they get to 25. Okay.

Speaker 1 So at what point would they get the rest of their inheritance?

Speaker 1 Is there like a kick-in at like a retirement age where they get it all? Because

Speaker 1 you were saying they're going to be building tremendous wealth, and it's like the 250 is a nice dividend, for lack of a better way of describing it. Is that right?

Speaker 2 That is essentially correct.

Speaker 1 So when would they get the big chunk?

Speaker 2 There is no...

Speaker 2 clauses in the estate plan in which they get to clean out the drawer.

Speaker 2 So I would assume that that legacy would continue on with their wills and estates to where they could leave it to the great-grandchildren, whom I will never know.

Speaker 1 Okay, so it's $2.50 each year, and they never, it's not like they get it all at one lump sum. That's all they get, and that's very generous, by the way.

Speaker 2 And then it transfers to their children's children. Yeah, you know,

Speaker 2 I hope so.

Speaker 2 But we could well afford, just with the increases in the portfolio of the investment side of it to give them more. I'm concerned to do that for all the reasons that you already know.

Speaker 1 You know what I'm thinking, Ray? I'll just get out of your way, Jay, but I was just thinking, I really trust your gut.

Speaker 1 I think you are a man of wisdom and you have proven it with how you've lived your life and as to where you stand today. So I'm not going to second guess your plan.

Speaker 1 However, If I personalize it,

Speaker 1 and if I was doing this for my grandkids, which I don't have, but if I'm sitting there thinking of this, I'm wondering if even the most mature of 25-year-olds,

Speaker 1 it's not that they can't handle it, but how would it change their perspective if they knew they were going to be making a quarter million dollars every year, whether they do anything at all?

Speaker 1 And I almost, I almost would want to maybe put it to them in different ways. So, for instance, they get a really big lump sum to buy a house, but it can only be used to buy a house cash.

Speaker 1 So you can put that in the trust, right?

Speaker 1 So that's one thing I'd think about. You know, I'd be thinking about it can only go to an investment.
It's going to be put in an investment thing at which point you can only pull out at retirement.

Speaker 1 You know, like that could be another way of doing it, Ray, but I'm not second guessing your plan. Jade.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I agree with Ken. The other question I had for you, Ray, was you said, okay, obviously this $250 is paying out.

Speaker 2 to the kids, grandkids, but that's by no means going to drain basically your estate nest egg. And then you said, I hope it would go, but they never get the lump sum.

Speaker 2 So what happens to it based on the estate? What happens to it?

Speaker 2 Do you know what I'm saying? Like what, what's the transition point?

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 the transition point is that following our conversation

Speaker 2 with you guys, you know, we'll certainly go back to council and we'll amend these things to make sure that we, you know,

Speaker 2 make that monies available either in the gift side of it or

Speaker 2 increase in the 250 or include the the unnamed biological grandchildren in the in the state

Speaker 2 our major concern was giving them too much too soon yeah

Speaker 2 and and uh and our major concern was require was requiring them to be good citizens and you know uh you know no criminal record and all those things that you can think of you know um

Speaker 2 so we're that's kind of what we're leaning on but you know with insurance with insurance and property taxes, and we want to have, we want them to have cars at work and a good vacation and

Speaker 2 Ivy Lake School, if they choose to do that, there's plenty of money there to do that. Well, well done.
I mean,

Speaker 2 I wish we had more time. I want to know how he, how he came up with this 30 million, maybe another call.

Speaker 1 I mean, Ray's my hero.

Speaker 1 I would love to be Ray one day to be able to bless my kids and my grandkids that way. That's really awesome.

Speaker 2 What a blessing. What a legacy.
Well done.

Speaker 1 This is the ramsey show

Speaker 1 welcome back to the ramsey show alongside jade borshaw i'm ken coleman so glad you are with us triple eight eight two five five two two five is the phone number let's go to devonta in san antonio devante how can we help

Speaker 2 hey how are y'all good to talk to y'all good how are you good good so i'll get right into it um me Me and my wife, we started a Christian-based after-school program last year.

Speaker 2 And long story short, you know, we felt led to do it, but it did not end well. We took some risks.
I mean, it started with personal finances and then credit cards.

Speaker 2 And then we did a HELOC loan, 50 grand. Okay.
Fast forward to right now.

Speaker 2 Got all the credit card debt paid off. We went down two cars, but the Lord bless us.
We're back to both cars being paid off. But I got this $50,000 HELOC loan.

Speaker 2 I want to know what y'all would do if they all were me. I got a two-year-old, a baby on the way.
I'm trying to be like Ray.

Speaker 2 Come on. Come on.
Me too.

Speaker 2 No, it says to leave an inheritance to your children's children, spiritually and financially, right? That's right. That's right.

Speaker 2 I'm ready to, I'm ready to, I'm not, I'm about to be Dave Ramsey bonafar from now on. I'm not doing that anymore.
Good. But what do I do now?

Speaker 2 Okay, so for,

Speaker 2 are you guys homeowners? You're homeowners. What's your house worth? Like, what do you owe on it and what's it worth?

Speaker 2 It's at, I want to say it was like 120. About 120 is left on the loan.
It's about 250 to 260. Okay.

Speaker 2 Yeah, the reason I asked is because we kind of say if the HELOC is more than half of what you owe on the house, then you kind of throw it to baby step six and it's part of paying off the house.

Speaker 2 But if it's less, then it's part of baby step two.

Speaker 2 So for you guys, I would treat this HELOC as though you're in baby step two and paid off in that way.

Speaker 2 And I think it's possible. I'm in real estate and you know it's had some good years last year was tough but still did pretty well

Speaker 2 but I'm torn between you know emergency fund and paying off the HELOC like how should I attack that because I don't have our emergency fund where I want it okay and you've got the baby on the way um

Speaker 2 yeah I I hear you on that you're technically in stork mode I would say in that in that case which is you just piling up money to save for this baby being born.

Speaker 2 And the hope is, you know, you stack up a bunch of money, the baby is born, everything's all good, you know, maybe you pay the insurance deductible at most, and then the rest of it can go on to the debt.

Speaker 2 And it's kind of like push play on the baby steps at that point. That's, that's what I would do in your situation.

Speaker 2 As far as the idea of saying, I'm going to kind of skip baby step two and I'm going to do baby step three first. I would not do that.

Speaker 2 Because if you do that, you're honestly putting yourself back in the position that got you into this mess, which is when we don't have savings and when we don't have cash, we use debt to do the things that become emergencies or even the things that we say we want to do.

Speaker 2 And so having that emergency fund there is so important so that later on you're not dipping into things like the 401k when an emergency comes or a HELOC when the emergency comes.

Speaker 2 Got you. Got you.
So Lena and a little bit pay, you know, have a considerable amount in the emergency fund, but

Speaker 2 attack the HELOC. No.
So we'll talk.

Speaker 2 Let me put it to you two ways. You're almost there.
So the baby steps are baby step one is $1,000 saved.

Speaker 2 After you get $1,000 saved, you do baby step two, which is you pay off all of your consumer debt. In your case, that's including the HELOC.

Speaker 2 And then baby step three is you save up three to six months of expenses. And then you go on baby step four, five, and six, on down the road.
We don't need to cover those just now.

Speaker 2 In your case, though, since there is a baby on the way, we kind of call that storm mode, which is whatever baby step that you're on, in your case, baby step two, we stop, pause, and we stack up as much money as we can, knowing that there's a baby coming.

Speaker 2 There could be added expenses, and we want to be ready for that. So once the baby comes and you go, okay, everything's good.

Speaker 2 You know, like I said, maybe you paid the deductible, but you've still got, I don't know, 10 grand sitting there. That 10 grand doesn't stay there.

Speaker 2 Now you push play on the baby steps and it goes back to paying off the debt. Does that make a little, does that make it a little clearer? Yes, that makes perfect sense.
Awesome.

Speaker 2 Listen, that's what Ray would do.

Speaker 2 That's what Dave would do.

Speaker 2 So true.

Speaker 1 I love that. Hey, Devontae, man, listen, I love your spirit.
I love that you've got a clear goal ahead of you. And, you know, right now, this is you're working as hard as you can work.

Speaker 1 You are stacking jobs.

Speaker 1 You're just not able to be turned down if you're out trying to sell a house or sign up somebody who's looking for a house. You know, you just have got to turn this into big time intensity.

Speaker 1 And that's the best thing you can do for, you know, when you've got this sense of, oh, I got to provide. And I get that.
And I can hear it all over you. And no judging yourself, just moving forward.

Speaker 1 Just turn that angst into effort. And I think if you do that, you will be surprised at how quickly opportunities come to you to make more money so that you can move forward.
So, I mean,

Speaker 1 that's the play. Owen is up next in Asheville.
Owen, excuse me, Nashville. Owen, how can we help?

Speaker 2 Hey, guys, I was hoping to

Speaker 2 get your take on

Speaker 2 how

Speaker 2 young couples can kind of navigate

Speaker 2 car ownerships and things like that. Honestly, I'm actually currently working on my wife's blown-up car to repair it to either keep it or sell it.
But,

Speaker 2 man, we've been shopping around for a car in the used market, the new market. And I'm just over here like, wow, do people really buy these things? Like, that's too much.
And I'm just going to use RAV4

Speaker 2 $30,000 for a a used car and I'm like no I'm just not doing it so well what do you have to spend

Speaker 2 well

Speaker 2 kind of kind of whatever I want but then I'm hitting our savings and things like that and we have a very large savings for a home right now so that's kind of what I'm hoping to get through and hopefully what do you want what do you want to get what what kind of a car what do you want out of it

Speaker 2 so

Speaker 2 Currently my wife has a Prius, which is one of the larger small cars, and she is pregnant. And so we're expecting a child.

Speaker 1 So a small SUV to mid-sized SUV?

Speaker 2 Yeah, something like that. Okay.
You guys debt-free?

Speaker 2 Completely, yes. Okay.

Speaker 1 What about 15 grand? How's that number hit you?

Speaker 2 No problem. We were going to put that down and try to maybe finance a little extra.
No, no, no. I'm just trying to finance.

Speaker 1 15 to 20. If you can do 15, you can do 20 and not feel indigestion, right?

Speaker 2 Well, we were looking in the 25s, but the problem is

Speaker 2 for the kind of vehicle that we can get for that price range, you know, now I have my wife in a car with 200,000 miles on it. Not true.
And our new child.

Speaker 2 Owen, listen. Wait a minute.
But wait a minute. Even to that degree, my car has 200,000 miles on it almost.

Speaker 1 We're in the wrong narrative. Owen, I just bought my son two years ago a Ford Explorer that had 98,000 miles on it.
We got it for $13,000. It's an older model, but it's in phenomenal shape.

Speaker 1 And it's got, like I said, just at right now, he's only got 101,000 miles on it. So this idea that you can't get something that's decent mileage in the 15 to 20 range is not true.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Well, and that brings me to the, I guess the frustrating part is when we look at vehicles like that, we always look at each other and say, well, why don't we just keep your Prius then?

Speaker 2 Because it's about to be, you know, have a rebuilt engine in it. Does it fit everybody? 200,000.

Speaker 1 Well, the baby doesn't care, and the baby fits in there.

Speaker 2 If everybody fits, I thought the reason was nobody, we couldn't fit as a family in the Prius.

Speaker 2 No, well, she wants something a little bit bigger because the Prius is tight. Here's what I think.
I think you need to do more shopping.

Speaker 2 If I were in your shoes, I would set my budget first because I want that to be the driving factor. Here's what I'm going to spend.

Speaker 2 Here's, I don't want to spend any more than this number right here, right? I'd set that first.

Speaker 2 Our top cap is 26.

Speaker 2 Okay, so no more than $26,000. And then I just work backwards.
I say, okay, what are we looking for? We want four doors. We want a mid-size.
We want it to be the color black, whatever it is.

Speaker 2 And then run that back because the options are there. They might be higher mileage.

Speaker 2 And then as you begin to narrow that funnel, you might decide, listen, I thought I cared more about the make and model, but really I care more about the mileage.

Speaker 2 And I just, for whatever reason, I'm not saying it's right, but you might go, I just don't feel good about a car with 150,000 miles.

Speaker 2 Fine, that's your prerogative, but it's going to shift the year and the make and model of car that you get.

Speaker 2 So I think that you just have to have a set of priorities listed in order of most important to least important. And then we're working through that model to actually get where you want to go.

Speaker 1 And by the way, you get where Owen is by budgeting, by having an idea what it is that you have and you keep it.

Speaker 1 The best way to make most of your money, by the way, is creating and sticking to that budget. And we've got the best tool.

Speaker 1 It's every dollar, makes it simple to plan spending, track expenses, and save for what matters most to you. It's an easy-to-use app.
so go get it.

Speaker 1 You can get it at the App Store or Google Play or click in the link of our show notes. Get every dollar right now for free.
This is the Ramsey Show.