Big Life Changes Demand Bold Money Decisions

Speaker 1 Live from Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships.

Speaker 1 I am Rachel Cruz, hosting this hour with best-selling author and host of the Dr. John Deloney Show, John Deloney.

Speaker 2 And your best friend, but my BFF.

Speaker 1 You don't have to say that. My good friends, John Deloney.

Speaker 1 So we are answering your questions about your life, your relationships, your money. So give us a call at 888-825-5225, and we are here for you.

Speaker 1 All right, starting us off this hour is Holly in Portland, Oregon. Hey, Holly, welcome to the show.

Speaker 1 Hi.

Speaker 2 Hi. Hello.
Hello. What's up?

Speaker 3 Hey,

Speaker 3 I have a difficult question, and I'm really glad that I get to talk to both of you you about it.

Speaker 2 Absolutely. Let it rip.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 3 I have to have a really hard conversation with my husband. I have to basically tell him in a loving way that I really don't care what his

Speaker 3 dreams and aspirations are, that I really just need him to get a better job.

Speaker 2 Fantastic. This is incredible.
Okay, dig in.

Speaker 2 I don't care. Like, this is a wider rope.
She's so resolved.

Speaker 1 She's really resolved. That's all I'm going to say.
Holly knows. I love it.

Speaker 2 This is a wife's end of her rope. I don't care what your stupid dreams are.
I don't care when you think the Avon sales are going to finally come through.

Speaker 1 You just need to make money.

Speaker 2 We're hungry. So, yeah, tell us where you're at.

Speaker 3 Okay. So, we've been married for 17 years.
And we have five kids and another on the way.

Speaker 1 Oh, wow.

Speaker 3 First 10 years, he was active duty in the military. That was really, really hard on our relationship.

Speaker 3 And we made choices. He chose to get out because our family is more important and that stability is more important.

Speaker 3 And we made choices. Like, I gave up my career.
I'm a preschool teacher

Speaker 3 by trade. And I gave that up to be with our kids.
And

Speaker 2 we,

Speaker 2 I just,

Speaker 3 he's underemployed. He's working like...

Speaker 1 Yeah, what's his situation

Speaker 3 he took a job that guarantees him 30 hours a week as a school bus driver.

Speaker 3 He has two degrees that we already

Speaker 3 did the hard work of getting. Like he got those since we've been married.

Speaker 2 How is he supporting five kids, one on the way with being a bus driver?

Speaker 3 It's really hard. He does get some disability,

Speaker 3 but it's not like complete or anything.

Speaker 1 And Holly,

Speaker 1 is his mindset like he's happy because he has time with the family? It's not that much. I'm not stressed and all of that.
Or is he, does he feel undervalued at all?

Speaker 1 Like is he looking or talking about other things?

Speaker 3 He's such a sweetheart. I think he really likes what he does and he loves working with the people he works with.
He's job hopped. He's experienced a lot of job loss since he left the military.

Speaker 3 And he finally has found a job that he really likes where the people really seem to appreciate him.

Speaker 3 but just it doesn't make up for the fact that he's underpaid and we're hustling well baby step two we're like really working the debt snowball to the best of our ability I have been working like 50 hours a week trying to open my own daycare which didn't go well because of other things but I've been working and bringing in as much as I can

Speaker 3 and

Speaker 3 the problem is that all these side hustles brought our income up to a point where we're bringing in almost $10,000 a month. But I'm due soon.

Speaker 3 And most of my students have left because of my pregnancy,

Speaker 3 which is understandable.

Speaker 1 Well, yeah, and you're working so much to make that versus like having a 40-hour a week job where you're making 80 or whatever it is.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but how much, so, but Holly, what I'm hearing underneath everything is how much of this is, and all of these things are real and they're not inherently bad.

Speaker 2 I just want to get to the honest pain point here.

Speaker 2 Number one, when I was, I'm trying to think of my last title, when I was the chief student affairs officer, Dean of Students slash associate provost. I remember what my title was.
It was long.

Speaker 2 I remember my wife, and this is her laughing and joking, but also.

Speaker 2 Like when she was at a dinner party, she sure liked saying my husband is a Dean of Students and a college executive than a youtuber. Does it matter that financially we're better off?

Speaker 2 Does it matter that I'm helping way more people?

Speaker 2 It was a funny thing, but she's like, yeah, it was cool. And I got to say that.
So is this you don't like going to talking to other moms and saying, well, my husband's a bus driver?

Speaker 2 Is that number one? Number two, I hear you,

Speaker 2 you've entered into comparison world or scorekeeping world, and that's a dangerous place for relationships. I gave up my career.
I'm doing this.

Speaker 2 I'm working so hard and I'm about to not be able to work hard because I'm giving, I'm creating another human I'm about to give birth to.

Speaker 2 And so, is this about you keeping score and saying, hey, you're not as tired at the end of the day as I am?

Speaker 2 Or is this, I'm looking at a man I love who can give value to the world and we don't have enough for groceries?

Speaker 2 Where's the pain point here? Or maybe it's a cocktail of all of that?

Speaker 3 I

Speaker 3 didn't grow up with money or anything.

Speaker 3 It doesn't matter to me what he does. I don't care about about his title.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 I've been a stay-at-home mom off and on, and that's what I would prefer to do.

Speaker 3 But I'm fine with making sacrifices for our family. I'm not asking him to do anything that I haven't done.
And I think he sees what I do and acknowledges it and is very grateful.

Speaker 3 I don't think it's a comparison thing for me. I think it's just that I'm scared because we're about to lose half your income, huh?

Speaker 2 Half our income.

Speaker 2 That's where you start

Speaker 2 that right there is the most honest statement because that's different than you called in saying and again i'm with you not at you okay so um but that's you calling in saying i have to tell my husband i don't care about his dreams and his whatever he's got to get another job that's different than you saying hey honey there's we're about to face a math problem and me as a stay-at-home mom of six i'm terrified well i i tried to have that conversation and he's like well maybe i want to be a teacher which means he has to go back to school

Speaker 3 and then if you look at the salary that it

Speaker 2 starting pay for teachers in our state yeah you don't you y'all made like this sounds awful but y'all made choices to have six to create six humans so that means you can't afford to make forty two thousand dollars that's that's the trade yeah or and or live in portland right Right.

Speaker 3 Well, we live outside of Portland in a much cheaper area, but he thinks we can make up the gaps with the side hustles, which we've been doing.

Speaker 2 But y'all aren't aren't going to be able to do side hustles anymore. You're out.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and the side hustle world is for a season. It's not ongoing to support

Speaker 1 a seven-person family.

Speaker 3 And he's up against time.

Speaker 3 He doesn't have any more hours in the day to do another side hustle. He already has two part-time gigs plus his bus driving.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 2 if I'm you, I would sit down and start with:

Speaker 2 I want to map this out for the next six months. I want us to be honest about the money, not, well, I hope here and I think I've got a deal here and I'm trying to build this.

Speaker 2 We're not at that place right now. I want to be honest about what's coming down the road for six months.
We need to sit down and make a plan. I'm scared to death.
Will you help me with this?

Speaker 2 And this is not, that's how you get underneath the dream part. I need this written down.
How much money will you bring in from these side hustles? Not fantasy, not fiction.

Speaker 2 I needed to know, based on the last three months, what are we going going to do the next three or six months?

Speaker 2 And then you look and say, We don't have enough money for you to go be a teacher. I want you to be.
We need good teachers.

Speaker 2 I would love for more men to be teachers, but our family, as for us right now, we can't afford to do that.

Speaker 2 And so we're going to have to make some, we're going to have to make some sacrifices, whether it's time, whether it's this quote-unquote passion and purpose right now. We just can't do it.

Speaker 1 Well, John, you're going to be busy this spring. You and Dave are hitting the road.

Speaker 2 Yes, it's going to be a wild tour, me and Dave.

Speaker 1 Yeah, the Money and Relationships tour. You guys are going to Louisville, Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth, Kansas City, all through the end of April, end of April and early May.

Speaker 1 So if those are any of your cities near you or you want to travel to, destination cities, make sure to, yeah, see if you guys can come because it's going to, you guys are really...

Speaker 1 you know, creating this event in a really unique way that the audience gets to decide a lot of the content in each of the cities, which is so fun.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and it will be

Speaker 2 wheels off, which I'm looking forward to.

Speaker 1 Wheels off the bus.

Speaker 2 You are one of only like a few people on the planet who have had the experience of being on stage with Dave when y'all kind of have an outline of what y'all are going to do.

Speaker 2 And then he just gets in the driver's seat and he hits the gas and you're like, oh, this is where we're going. So here we go.
Right.

Speaker 2 And so I am as nervous for this as I've been for anything in a long time. I can't wait.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 it's going to be fun. So go to ramseysolutions.com slash tour and get your tickets for the Money and Relationships Tour with Dr.
John Deloney and Dave Ramsey.

Speaker 2 It's going to be

Speaker 1 train wrecks on stage. It's going to be fantastic.

Speaker 2 Wheels on the bus.

Speaker 1 I'm just kidding.

Speaker 2 Nowadays, people, like, and you know this, we both do it, but you get on like a tour cycle.

Speaker 2 And so if you hear like your favorite person on the podcast and you see them pop up, sometimes we just have the same points talking about the same thing.

Speaker 2 What I love about this is if whatever night you show up, it's going to be a different event, man. And

Speaker 2 I don't get to do do that very often, so I'm excited about it. Yeah, that's going to have a blast.

Speaker 1 So great. So great.
All right. Next, we have Andrew in Dayton, Ohio.
Hey, Andrew. Welcome to the show.

Speaker 3 I appreciate you having me.

Speaker 2 Absolutely.

Speaker 1 How can we help?

Speaker 3 So I'm in a bit of a particular situation right now. Just to kind of debrief you on my situation, I have no debt other than the mortgage.
Me and my father are in a little bit of a dispute.

Speaker 3 whether I should pay off my current mortgage, which is on an investment property that I don't don't live in,

Speaker 3 first,

Speaker 3 or save as much money as I can and put it into a primary residence.

Speaker 1 Where are you living now?

Speaker 3 I'm currently living around Dayton, and I still live at home with my parents.

Speaker 2 Oh, you're home. Okay.

Speaker 2 So is this disagreement your dad wanting you to get out?

Speaker 3 It's not a matter of that. In my culture, you don't move out until you're married, and I'm going to be married here in 56 days.

Speaker 2 Oh, wow. I thought I'm counting down by the minute, but congratulations, brother.
That's awesome.

Speaker 1 So where are you guys going to live? I appreciate it.

Speaker 3 My parents have a second home that they're allowing me to live in. All I have to do is just pay the expenses so they break even.

Speaker 2 Very generous of them.

Speaker 1 For sure. Is this a long-term thing, or is this just like, hey, the first couple years, you know, don't worry about rent.
You guys can live here, but you will eventually get your own place. Or

Speaker 1 is this property from your parents deemed to you guys like long-term?

Speaker 3 They've said we can stay in it for as long as possible. Personally, I don't want to take advantage of their generosity.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 3 get in and out of there within two years.

Speaker 1 Well, yeah, yeah, for sure. And if that wasn't the case, I didn't know like what situation you were in, if it was going to be deeded to you all eventually, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 I mean, or something like that. But if you guys, I would want you guys working towards your primary home for sure, so that you have the ability to go and buy something when you're ready.

Speaker 1 How old are you guys?

Speaker 3 I'm 21, and my fiancé is 18.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 Okay, great.

Speaker 1 So how much is left on the rental property?

Speaker 3 $173,000.

Speaker 1 Okay, and how much will you guys be making combined household income after you get married?

Speaker 3 The problem is I open sales. Pretty much all of my income comes from commission.

Speaker 3 That's

Speaker 3 kind of speculative, but I'm going to say somewhere in between $120,000 to $140,000.

Speaker 1 Okay, and what will she be doing?

Speaker 3 Good question.

Speaker 2 You should find that out you're getting married in 56 days, dude.

Speaker 1 Like, is she going to school, or will she be working?

Speaker 3 She was going to school. She stopped because she realized the degree she was going toward was probably not worth it, but she is working right now.

Speaker 1 Okay, how much do you think she'll bring home?

Speaker 3 Probably around 40,000.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 Okay, so you guys are at 180.

Speaker 3 Oh, I meant 140 combined. I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 Oh, okay. Okay.
Okay. Together, you guys.
Okay. I'm sorry.
I got you.

Speaker 1 And the rental property, how, tell me about that. Was that you and your dad together doing that? Or was that, is that just under your name?

Speaker 3 It's just under my name.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 And why are what

Speaker 1 I'm just curious, why aren't you moving into it?

Speaker 1 What's causing you to have this property?

Speaker 3 It generates too much money for me to justify moving into it, to be honest.

Speaker 2 Okay. Yeah, but if you're what are you going to pay out in rent if you get and go rent your own place?

Speaker 2 I mean,

Speaker 3 net probably $400 or $500 a month.

Speaker 2 Okay. That would be the difference?

Speaker 3 Well,

Speaker 3 each side of the property generates about $1,200 a month, and my parents only really want me to pay around $400 to $500, which is just the expenses.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but that's living in mommy and daddy's house. So when you decide you and your wife are going to move into your own place, what will your rent on that place be?

Speaker 3 Oh, I'm not looking to rent. I want to buy it.

Speaker 3 Wait, I'm sorry. Are you talking about the house I'm moving into?

Speaker 2 No,

Speaker 2 here's what I'm trying to,

Speaker 2 the picture I'm trying to paint for you.

Speaker 2 As a 21-year-old, you're so far ahead of the game, you're thinking about owning your own business.

Speaker 2 You're thinking about becoming a property owner and a property manager and all that, which is awesome. I'm proud of you.

Speaker 2 And so at 21, as a salesman making an unstable commission, like you have a great month, you might have a good month, and then you have three or four low months.

Speaker 2 Just that steady drumbeat where it feels like you're getting $2,400 every month.

Speaker 2 minus your mortgage on that place, minus the expenses, minus the depreciation, minus the upkeep, minus the, oh, hey, we need to do a new roof, minus the, hey, the air conditioner went out, minus the, hey, they flushed a a whole bunch of grease down the toilet and so now we have to replace the sewer mainten like minus all of that stuff what rachel and i are trying to i guess trying to gently steer you in what feels like a ton so much money you can't afford to sell it or move into it yourself what i'm telling you is in five years you're going to much rather wish you had a paid for owned house than have a paid for rental house and you and your wife are still trying to figure out how you're going to pay your mortgage every month.

Speaker 2 So it feels like a lot right now, but y'all haven't had a big expense. You haven't had the thing almost fall down.
You haven't had that kind of stuff that hits every single home manager out there.

Speaker 2 Do you get what I'm saying?

Speaker 3 Yeah, that makes sense. That was kind of a third option that I kind of floated that I never really took seriously.

Speaker 3 I probably have $150,000 in equity in that house. I can sell it 1031 exchange and into a primary if I need to.

Speaker 2 If I was you, I would spend one year at this gift that my mom and dad are giving me and we would save every possible penny and I would sell the rental property.

Speaker 1 Yeah, live on 40 or something.

Speaker 1 You know what I mean? Like if you don't have rents.

Speaker 2 Put 75 grand away.

Speaker 1 Yeah, do that for one or two years. And golly, you could put, yeah, $150,000, $200,000, sell your place.
That's $350,000. Go pay cash for a house right off to the sunset.

Speaker 1 If you guys want to get back into the rental game, then do it with some cheap, you know, $150,000 property that you guys save up over time because you have a paid-for-house.

Speaker 2 Like, just know this. If you could figure out a way at 25 or 26, reverse engineer this.
Yeah, we have a paid-for primary house, me and my new wife. We've been married five years.

Speaker 2 We're going to start having children. We're going to start having kids, and we have a paid-for-house, no mortgage.
I'm telling you right now, you have set yourself on.

Speaker 2 Have you heard the phrase in the because I can tell you're uh you read all this stuff. Have you heard of take care of your long tails? Have you heard of that phrase?

Speaker 3 I don't believe so.

Speaker 2 Okay, so if you think of a distribution on a bell curve, the long tails are the way outside of the bounds things that almost never happen except for every single person. They do happen.

Speaker 2 And what I mean is every single day of your life, you don't get a cancer diagnosis, someday somebody you love will. Okay, that's taking care of your long tails.

Speaker 2 Long tail is the market will go up, rent will go out, COVID will happen, renters won't pay, whatever happens, you'll have a legislative change in your state where they say you can't evict people.

Speaker 2 Who knows what happens down the road?

Speaker 2 But if you've taken care of this long tail that nobody can take away your primary home, you and your wife have a home that nobody can take, it allows you to anchor off and really go after true wealth creation.

Speaker 1 Yep. So, Andrew, I think what I would do is I would live rent-free in your parents' home, let your property continue to appreciate.

Speaker 1 That's fine, but then eventually have the goal to sell it probably in the next year or two. And exactly what you're saying, move all that equity over to a primary home with the money you've saved.

Speaker 1 And there's a good chance you could cash flow primary home. And then if you guys want to get in the rental game, do that later with cash.
But that's a lot of peace.

Speaker 2 That's embracing.

Speaker 1 That's a lot of peace, Andrew. Congratulations.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. We're taking your calls at 888-825-5225.

Speaker 1 Up next, we have Dan in Houston, Texas. Hey, Dan, welcome to the show.

Speaker 3 Hi, thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 Absolutely.

Speaker 1 How can we help?

Speaker 3 Well, first I want to give a shout out. I started with Dave's program many years ago.
I'm 67 now. And by the time I was 55, I could retire.
And now I'm doing the things I love and volunteering.

Speaker 1 Well done, Dan.

Speaker 2 Congratulations.

Speaker 3 Trying to spread the word, you know.

Speaker 3 But

Speaker 3 so.

Speaker 3 I'm working on brevity here.

Speaker 3 So there's four of us kids. I'm the oldest is 68.
The youngest is

Speaker 3 61.

Speaker 3 And number two is my sister, and she's

Speaker 3 the administrator, the trustee of the estate. And so my mother's 95, and when she passes, we all receive between a half a million and 750,000.
Oh, wow.

Speaker 3 So, yeah, you know, life-changing money.

Speaker 3 You know, my wife and I are both debt-free. I mean, literally no debt.

Speaker 3 Dave would laugh if he heard that my truck has 300,000 miles on it.

Speaker 2 He'd tell you to go get a new truck, Dan. You would.
You'll get a new truck, Dan. I'm telling you, go get a new truck, Dan.

Speaker 3 Thanks, guys. I'm kind of in love with this thing.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 3 so the problem is, is

Speaker 3 the two youngest ones have asked my mother for money before over the years,

Speaker 3 both a little bit over $100,000.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 one

Speaker 3 of one of them, number three, has a $900 car payment, $2,400 a month apartment payment, about $160,000 credit card debt, and even though she makes six figures, cannot emotionally control her spending.

Speaker 3 The youngest one, we inherited about $100,000 from my father some 10 years ago. And I said, if you blow this money, I'm going to punch you in the nose.

Speaker 3 And six months later, he had a quad and a snowmobile and didn't pay off his house.

Speaker 2 bankrupt and um did you hit him so that just couldn't pardon no no no you know no i no, no.

Speaker 3 The problem is, is

Speaker 3 I'm not too worried about it.

Speaker 3 I've been working since I was 13. My sister's a hard worker, too.
But

Speaker 3 the problem is, is she's worried they're going to come to the door, you know, when they're 70 or 80, begging for money. You have money.
I have no money. And we're trying to figure out how

Speaker 3 to handle the coming basically tsunami of what they're going to bring to the table. Now, the trust comes in two parts.
The one trust, everybody gets an equal share right away.

Speaker 3 And then the second trust,

Speaker 3 my sister and I both get our share. But those two,

Speaker 3 my mother broke it up so that it's like five years apart, something like that. But if you have any advice for how to handle people who blow through money, have no control.
I've got my brother

Speaker 3 on Dave's program. He was good for a year and then fell off the wagon.

Speaker 2 Hey, Dan, here's the hard thing. I'll answer it, but here's the hard thing, okay?

Speaker 3 Yes, sir.

Speaker 2 The answer to this question has nothing to do with them.

Speaker 3 Okay. You know, I told my sister that.
I said, I have no problem, you know, in my heart, knowing that I, over the years, over 20, 30 years,

Speaker 3 going on 40 now,

Speaker 3 I have ministered, I have given material, I've done everything I can.

Speaker 2 But here's the thing,

Speaker 2 it was never about you.

Speaker 3 Right.

Speaker 2 They're struggling. And so it sounds like what, especially your sister, but I'm sure deep down you're dealing with it too, is

Speaker 2 you're frustrated at the future guilt that may come your way.

Speaker 3 Right. Yep.
You're nailing it on the head.

Speaker 2 But here's what's hard.

Speaker 2 If you live like that right now, what you're doing is you're not mitigating the guilt in the future. You're just spoiling today.

Speaker 3 You're absolutely right.

Speaker 2 And so I'm going to choose for peace and joy and warmth and laughter in the right now, and I'm going to be very clear about my boundaries moving forward.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 2 And so the harder conversation will be sitting down with your brother and sister who are adults who could have never, like, they could care less what you have to teach them.

Speaker 2 They think, like, I'm sure they're, when they get coffee together, they're talking about you got you and your sister. All they do is work and they never, whatever.

Speaker 2 Is saying, hey, here's the distribution.

Speaker 2 Don't come for to us.

Speaker 2 Right. Or you and your wife say that.

Speaker 1 And you're saying, just saying it out loud when you guys are.

Speaker 2 Yes. I heard Becky Kennedy say this the other Dr.
Kennedy say this, and I loved it. She said, a boundary is something that requires nothing from anyone else other than you.

Speaker 3 Wow. That is awesome.

Speaker 2 So you're going to set this boundary. We're all going to be clear.
There's no more money after this.

Speaker 2 And if you, as a loving brother, want to say, I'll hook you up with the Ramsey Solutions. I'll hook you up with the plan that set me and my wife free.
Y'all want that? Great.

Speaker 2 I'm not going to preach to you. I need everybody, I need to be on record that y'all are getting a check for $750,000.

Speaker 2 Y'all are going to have to learn to manage this because when you're 80, you can't come knocking on my door. Here's the other side of that.

Speaker 2 You and your wife might sit down and say, when that day comes, are we really going to leave our brother on the street?

Speaker 2 And if not, then say, okay, then we'll start a small fund. Like, y'all get to decide what you do with that moving forward.

Speaker 2 But what y'all are doing, you and your sister are doing is you're living every minute frustrated by things that other grown adults are choosing to not do.

Speaker 1 And that haven't really happened yet either.

Speaker 2 And that haven't even happened. Exactly.

Speaker 3 And so you're 100% correct.

Speaker 2 Brene Brown calls it dress rehearsing tragedy. I love that.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 you're already having imaginary conversations that you at 82 are going to have with an 80-year-old little brother. Don't do that.

Speaker 2 You're just blowing your, like, you should be laughing, especially when you're truck shopping. Because, God, get a new truck, dude.
But,

Speaker 2 and I'm playing with you. My truck has 200,000 miles.
So,

Speaker 2 that's fine. I'm with you.
But you get what I'm saying?

Speaker 3 Oh, yeah. And, you know, I've actually had this conversation with my sister.

Speaker 3 And my wife and I are in a new marriage. And some people didn't like the idea that we got married and all this kind of stuff.
And I'm like, look, this is all about us now.

Speaker 2 Yeah, they don't get a vote. Who cares?

Speaker 3 Right, exactly. And I, it's, um, it's really

Speaker 3 tearing my sister up.

Speaker 1 And I think that we sometimes live under this illusion that we can change people, that if we say the right thing or we give the right book or we do whatever it may be, that that's somehow going to be the magic moment of the light bulb going off in their head of like, oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 And we put that responsibility on ourselves. And I hear this more from your sister, the way you're talking about your sister.

Speaker 1 And so, yeah, maybe you hang up with us and call her and relieve her, right?

Speaker 1 I mean, like tell her about this call, but you both don't need to sit there feeling this like hero complex that we are, it's, it's our responsibility somehow to change our 62-year-old sibling um yeah but also your parents i hear you your parents put her in a very maternal role

Speaker 3 they did and my my they were really bad with money and came into it late in life and my sister and i have been working literally since we've been 13 which is fine we both love working and sure but you know to think that i'm going to give it away to somebody who's lived this profligate life and you know it's just ludicrous so so here's the deal and i would sit down

Speaker 2 I would sit down with your sister and say,

Speaker 2 as your little brother or as your older brother, I want to remind you, they have a mom.

Speaker 2 And it's not you.

Speaker 2 All her job is

Speaker 2 to distribute the funds in the way that mom asked. That's it.

Speaker 1 Not manage everybody.

Speaker 2 I'm not going to manage you.

Speaker 2 I'm not going to try to pseudo-parent through mom from the grave. I'm going to do any of that stuff.

Speaker 1 Put all that weight on her.

Speaker 2 That's it. I mean, yeah.

Speaker 2 She has to decide I'm not going to be their 78-year-old mother. I'm going to be their older sister, just doing what mom asked me to do.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Well, this is pretty much what I've told her, and she's still in fear. You know, she has that guilt, like you guys were saying.
And,

Speaker 3 you know, I learned this volunteering at the hospital. A man once told me, he goes, you know, you see a crisis based on how you're living, but they don't see a crisis.

Speaker 2 That's right. And they don't.

Speaker 3 you know, they don't see a crisis, but they're still asking for.

Speaker 2 It's like a lot of Americans right now that think that's just going to continually go on forever and ever. Amen.
And it's not.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And Dan, too, you can be a great listening ear for your older sister too, but don't carry her weight either.
I mean, you're concerned.

Speaker 1 Yeah, because part of your call has been a lot of her concern too.

Speaker 1 And don't carry that either, Dan. You know, it's this like kind of individualness that I think is really important for you guys because you're taking on a lot.

Speaker 1 Your sister's emotion that's doing things well, but she's frustrated and fearful. And then the siblings that aren't.

Speaker 2 And just because you feel guilty doesn't mean it's not the wrong decision.

Speaker 2 Just because you feel guilty doesn't mean you're doing the wrong thing.

Speaker 2 You're a good man, man.

Speaker 1 Congratulations. Thanks, Dan, for the call.

Speaker 1 The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by YReFi. Why ReFi refinances your defaulted private student loans, which are different than federal student loans.

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Speaker 1 And it's wonderful. We don't talk about refinancing debt majority of the time.

Speaker 1 We don't recommend it. But with private student loans, we do.
So there you go. Go to YReFi.
Y-R-E-F-Y.com.

Speaker 2 Words.

Speaker 2 Who's that? Nate Bergatzi. He's like, there's just so many words when you read.

Speaker 2 Just words everywhere. Today's question comes from Alexandra in Arizona.
My 14-year-old daughter claims that all the kids in school... dude, we just, I just had this in my house.

Speaker 2 My 14-year-old daughter claims that all the kids in school are buying lunches from local eateries and spending as much as 20 bucks a day on takeout food rather than bringing their lunch.

Speaker 2 It's not allowed at our school.

Speaker 1 No outside takeout food.

Speaker 2 Keep going. My wife and I are on baby step two and have another $65,000 to go.
We simply cannot afford this. How do I explain this to my 14-year-old without, in her words, making her feel poor?

Speaker 2 I think underneath all of this, I'm just going to tell you, Rachel, how I experienced this. It's very similar.

Speaker 2 The school my son goes to has an extraordinary cafeteria. And I,

Speaker 2 for me and Sheila, it's less about the finances and it's more about I want him to participate in

Speaker 2 food

Speaker 2 creation and food consumption. I want him to know that food just doesn't materialize out of

Speaker 2 thin air, right?

Speaker 2 And so that may that's a little little house on the prairie for us, I know, but

Speaker 1 you don't let him buy from the cafeteria, is that what you're saying?

Speaker 2 That's right. So you bring it up.
He has to be a part of making his food. Oh, gotcha.
And so underneath this, though, I struggled with my kid's the only one.

Speaker 2 And so I think, Alexandra, it's less about you worrying about your 14-year-old feeling poor, and it's more about you feeling guilty that your 14-year-old has any sort of uncomfortable feelings.

Speaker 2 And that's where you need to deal with this. So

Speaker 2 if you can't afford it, then the way you go straight into that is sitting down with your daughter and letting her walk through your budget with you. She's 14.
She's a freshman in high school.

Speaker 2 She can do that. And you look at her and say, we're working really hard to change our family tree.
We don't have enough money. And by the way, for a 14-year-old, they don't care.

Speaker 2 They're going to have feelings. They're going to get mad.
Oh, my gosh, we're poor. Let a 14-year-old say 14-year-old things.

Speaker 2 There's a reason as a society we have all said 14-year-olds can't buy beer and cigarettes and guns because they're 14.

Speaker 2 The other side of that is you need to become more comfortable with your 14-year-old being uncomfortable. Yes.
Because that's life.

Speaker 1 Well, that's life. And if it's not the lunches, it's going to be the type of shoes.
It's going to be the backpack.

Speaker 2 It keeps going.

Speaker 1 And then on into college, what college is she going to? I mean, that feeling continues.

Speaker 2 And so the greatest gift you can give a 14-year-old is not $20 a day for lunch. It is the ability to tolerate discomfort and go forward anyway.
Yes. And that's a lesson every human will learn.

Speaker 2 But you have to learn. Most today's now, adults

Speaker 2 call into the show saying, I'm $140,000 in student loan debt i'm trying to live in new york city and i want to be a painter and it doesn't work right and

Speaker 2 nobody had reality conversations earlier

Speaker 1 um i read this in a parenting book i can't remember who it was sissy goff i can't remember who it was but they were saying that you know the generation before 10 years ago 15 years ago was the helicopter parents and now it's the snowplow parents yeah the bulldozers just we just like make a smooth path so there's no bumps we don't feel anything we are good no hardship no bumps in the road it is just a smooth walk and everything is fine And that's not, that's not reality.

Speaker 2 It's teaching your kids. This is an amazing moment for your 14 year old.

Speaker 1 And can I just say this too? Not that this matters, but they're buying lunch from local eateries. This isn't even like a cafeteria buy.
This is that they're getting

Speaker 2 campus.

Speaker 1 It's, yeah, like it's a, it's even a step beyond normal reality. Like some kids, you know what I mean? Like, it's not even like, oh, we're not even going to pay for school lunches from the cafeteria.

Speaker 1 This is like. another step beyond.
So I think even for her to have some level of reality, my parents did this, of like, there's tiers in life.

Speaker 1 The highest tier is that a 14-year-old is getting a $20 lunch from Panera or whatever the local eatery is. The second tier is, yeah, maybe you get to spend some money and buy lunch at the cafeteria.

Speaker 1 And then you got to bring your, you know, your lunch. I don't know.
And like, like, like, we don't all get to live at a high level. Like, there's going to be ups and downs in life.

Speaker 2 So a great gift you can give your 14-year-old is let her experience that now. And let her just know that she's not alone experiencing that.

Speaker 2 Let her know, I wish I could just give you 20 bucks every day. That'd be awesome.
And that's not reality. That'd be cool.
That's crazy.

Speaker 2 And just for whoever's listening, because evidently there's at least two of us in the country dealing with this,

Speaker 2 the two ways we've mitigated this in our house, and you don't mitigate it, you just walk through it, is

Speaker 2 a lot of the time our kids participate in cooking the night before. And so the leftovers are not just leftovers that

Speaker 2 were shoved out in the fridge. It was something that they participated in cooking the night before, and they've got a steak in it, right? They got skin in the game.

Speaker 2 Or just yesterday, my son was cooking chicken nuggets or something before school in the oven, and that's what he's going to put in a container to take to school.

Speaker 2 So he gets to take as luxurious a lunch as he wants to, but he's going to be, he's going to make it. And it's going to be from what we have in the fridge and the house.

Speaker 2 And so that comes with planning and meal planning, all that kind of stuff. So all I have to say is

Speaker 2 the goal is not to have 14-year-olds that don't feel certain ways. They're going to feel however they feel, 16, 17, 18, whatever.
The goal is your feelings are okay and they're right.

Speaker 2 And I'm going to sit with you while you feel that way. And then we're going to be tethered to reality.
We don't have the money. We just simply don't.

Speaker 2 And by the way, if you did, I would recommend you not do that anyway. That's right.

Speaker 1 That's right. All right.
Next, we have Donna in Sarasota, Florida. Hey, Donna, welcome to the show.

Speaker 3 Hi.

Speaker 2 Hello, hello. How can we do that?

Speaker 3 Hi. So my husband and I have worked really hard to be debt-free and to get our daughter through college debt free.
And we've achieved that.

Speaker 3 And we moved to Florida to kind of slow down, enjoy our time a little bit more.

Speaker 3 We took

Speaker 3 lower paying jobs. And

Speaker 3 we are finding that we only make just enough to cover the bills

Speaker 3 now that we're down here. And

Speaker 3 I'm wondering if we should, and I know your answer, but I'm wondering if we should take some equity out of our house or invest it somewhere else.

Speaker 3 Questioning whether he should take early so super important.

Speaker 1 How much are you guys making a year?

Speaker 3 About 60,000.

Speaker 1 60,000. Okay.
And how much does it take to run your household every month?

Speaker 3 About $5,000 a month.

Speaker 1 About $5,000. Oh, yeah.
I mean, yeah. And how much is your mortgage? Yep, we're there.
How much is your mortgage?

Speaker 3 I don't have a mortgage.

Speaker 2 We're dead. Oh, oh, that.
Oh, okay.

Speaker 1 And how old are you guys?

Speaker 3 I'm 55 and my husband's 61.

Speaker 1 How much you guys have in retirement?

Speaker 3 225.

Speaker 2 Ugh, can I be the bearer of bad news?

Speaker 3 I know what you're going to say.

Speaker 2 Like, y'all wanted to slow down, and y'all aren't. It's just, this is just, this isn't a character issue.
This isn't a dream issue. This is just a math problem.

Speaker 2 Y'all just aren't in a place where you can slow down yet.

Speaker 1 Yeah, combined, you guys can't be making 60. You guys need to be making double.
Each of you need to be making 60.

Speaker 2 And can I tell you, y'all get to feel real sad about that? Because y'all worked really hard to get out of debt. You worked really hard to get your daughter through school.

Speaker 2 And it's just a math problem.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And that means I would love to see y'all come up with like a number, Rachel, like get it to a number and say, this is what we need to work towards so that you don't feel like you're just perpetually working seven hours a week for the rest of your life.

Speaker 2 Totally. But at the same time, like we have this dream of just kind of laying back and working part-time jobs and enjoying Florida and the math just doesn't work.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Where

Speaker 1 so y'all are in Sarasota. I was going to say, I mean, I don't know if there's a less expensive,

Speaker 1 you know, place that you guys want to be long-term.

Speaker 1 You know, you could consider that.

Speaker 1 But also, I mean, yeah, I mean, I would do the math and just say, okay, for him, for the next three to four years, for you, maybe the next five, what does it look like and how much do we need to make to put a percentage of our income away for retirement?

Speaker 1 Cause you're going to want more in retirement. And that we're not feeling like we are living paycheck to paycheck.
So that's going to just really be you guys sitting down and mapping out.

Speaker 1 But then also, I mean, Sarasota, Florida, I mean, you're in an expensive part of Florida. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So, I mean, you know, whatever you could sell your house for, do you guys say, yeah, we just on a whim decided Sarasota or is there family around? Is there a reason you're there?

Speaker 1 Could there be a less expensive place, get a condo, bank half your equity, and, you know, put yourself in a different place to retire earlier.

Speaker 2 But don't borrow against your mortgage because you're just punting a problem and you've put your house on the block as a solution to that. Don't do that.

Speaker 1 Thanks to all the guys in the booth and Kelly. Thank you, John, for a great hour.
And thank you, America. This is is The Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Live from Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships.

Speaker 1 I am Rachel Cruz, hosting this hour with my good friend and best-selling author, Dr. John Deloney, and we are answering your questions.
So give us a call at 888-825-5225.

Speaker 1 Your relationships, money, life?

Speaker 2 All of it. We got an an opinion on it.

Speaker 1 Anything and everything. Give us a call.
We're starting off this hour with Julia in Seattle. Hi, Julia.
Welcome to the show.

Speaker 3 Thank you.

Speaker 2 You are welcome. How can we help? What's up?

Speaker 3 I'm wondering if I'm foolish to keep my house.

Speaker 3 I bought this house with my husband about 18 months ago.

Speaker 3 And just a few weeks after moving in, I found out he had been having an affair for the past six months. Oh,

Speaker 2 I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 Yeah,

Speaker 3 it was horrible.

Speaker 1 Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 He declined to end that relationship, and our divorce was just final a couple of months ago.

Speaker 3 And he quit claimed the house to me.

Speaker 3 But now I'm responsible for the entire payment myself, and it's most of my paycheck.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 You got to sell it.

Speaker 3 Okay. Can I tell you a little more?

Speaker 2 Yeah, please. I hate this for you.
I'm heartbroken for you.

Speaker 3 I only need to stay in it for like five more years until my kids graduate high school.

Speaker 3 And I don't, after all what they've been through this last year, I just don't want to make a move tools and all of that.

Speaker 3 I have about $500,000 in investment accounts and

Speaker 3 retirement accounts

Speaker 3 as well as a pension.

Speaker 3 And I have $125,000 in a high

Speaker 3 yield savings account as an emergency fund. And

Speaker 2 I've always been good with

Speaker 3 money, and I've saved for a rainy day.

Speaker 1 And I'm wondering

Speaker 2 my rainy day. Yeah,

Speaker 2 your rainy five years? This is, yeah, no, this is. Okay, so Julia, tell me, what are you guys, what are you bringing home a year?

Speaker 3 About $150,000.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 And per month, what is hitting your account after taxes and everything?

Speaker 3 A little over $8,000.

Speaker 1 Okay. And how much is the money?

Speaker 3 I have $2,000 of child support.

Speaker 1 Okay, so

Speaker 1 $10,000 total coming in. Yeah.
Okay. And how much is the mortgage?

Speaker 3 The mortgage is $6,000.

Speaker 1 For your job,

Speaker 1 yeah. I mean, do you, do you,

Speaker 2 How much equity is in is in the house?

Speaker 3 Almost 50%. We just had it valued for the divorce, and it was a little over 1.6,

Speaker 3 and I owe $8.50 on it.

Speaker 2 So, one thing you might try,

Speaker 2 and this is embarrassing because this is a largely money show, and I can't think of a term, but you can call your mortgage company and

Speaker 2 good gosh, I've lost the term, but essentially adjust your payment

Speaker 2 in light of what you owe now.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 2 And so, for instance, if you took out a $1.3 million loan and you got it down to that $800,000,

Speaker 2 they may be able to drop it as though you have whatever it is you have left.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 And off the top of my head, give me a second and I'll think of the term here in a second. No, it's not refinancing.

Speaker 2 It's like an attribution. Talk for a second.

Speaker 2 I'll look it up real quick. So I've got an email in my box for one second.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So, yeah, Julia, I mean.

Speaker 3 I haven't had to dip into savings yet, and it's been a year. I'm super good at living frugally.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but here's while I'm looking this up, here's my big concern for you.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 2 You're trying to limit the bomb blast that just happened in your home. Yeah.
And I want you to know and hear from

Speaker 2 a neutral third party,

Speaker 2 like

Speaker 2 what you think you're shielding them from, they've already experienced.

Speaker 2 And the thing, if you look five years from now, 10 years from now, the greatest gift you could give them is a mom who found peace inside her own home,

Speaker 2 not a stressed-out mom who had to work overtime and skimped and didn't eat sometimes and did this and did that

Speaker 2 so they could stay in the same school.

Speaker 1 Does that make sense? Are they in public school?

Speaker 2 Backcasting. They are, yeah.
Recast. That's what it is.
I'm sorry. Recast.
Recast. Yes, yes, yes.
Call your mortgage company and ask about a recast.

Speaker 2 See if that's an option. It may drop

Speaker 2 your payment by half. So call and ask them that.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 2 And are they in private or public?

Speaker 3 They're in public school.

Speaker 2 They're in public.

Speaker 1 And I'm just wondering, Julia, you know, yeah, if the recasting and all of that doesn't happen, is there a way? Because I even know within our school, you know,

Speaker 1 our school district, even to say within our elementary school, which is a tiny little circle within a county.

Speaker 1 But I'm like, there's, you know, certain neighborhoods that are half the price of other neighborhoods. I mean, there's still like a

Speaker 1 there's still a cost difference, even in residential, right? So is there an area where you guys are, would you say you're in the higher end of that school district?

Speaker 1 Or are there cheaper houses that you may want to move homes? Because I get that feeling as a mom, trying to keep them with a level of normalcy. Like that makes sense to me.

Speaker 1 But it doesn't doesn't make sense to yeah i mean basically drive yourself down with this payments and and having nothing i mean you'll have four thousand to live on could you that's a lot of kids and kids eat a lot and school and cleats and all kinds and everything is there other options julia within the school district

Speaker 2 housing wise um

Speaker 2 if i wanted like a condo or if i just wanted to rent for the last few years of their schooling yeah yeah how much of this julia is and this is just me asking just between me and you and a couple of million people listening.

Speaker 2 Like

Speaker 2 he took your marriage and he blew your house up.

Speaker 2 And the thing that nobody ever talks about in these moments is you lost trust in you because you've been asking yourself for the last 18 months, how did I not see this? How did I not experience this?

Speaker 2 What is it about me that he got caught and he was like, nah, I'm going to go with her.

Speaker 2 How much of this is you can't have my dream house too?

Speaker 2 You took everything from me. You're not taking this house that you and I saved for, that we put down on.
How dare you just walk away from my house?

Speaker 3 I haven't thought about that before.

Speaker 3 I mean, maybe a bit. Okay.

Speaker 2 Because if that is what tilts the teeter-totter here, then that's me having a hard conversation with my friend Julian saying that's ego.

Speaker 2 And I want you to have peace more than I want you to have this big fancy house. Yeah.
If it's the majority, I just can't in my gut stomach disrupting my kids' lives again.

Speaker 2 Just know their lives have already been so disrupted that mom solving for peace

Speaker 2 is the primary. I'm going to solve for peace in every way I can.
And if that means we got to move again, then, God almighty, we got to move again.

Speaker 1 How old are the kids, Julia?

Speaker 3 They're 13, and my son just turned 18.

Speaker 1 Okay, so yeah, so it'd be the 13-year-old. Yeah.
Yep. Yeah.

Speaker 2 That would feel good. So, but so, but mom and a 13-year-old can move to a condo

Speaker 2 and have no upkeep and have no whatever. You get, you get a lot of equity, cash in the bank, and you get to breathe.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. I mean, I'm just being as honest as I can.
If there's just me and one kid,

Speaker 2 I wouldn't have a $1.6 million house in this much money stress. I just wouldn't.
But that's easy for me to say on the side of the fence.

Speaker 2 Call your mortgage company and check out about a recast

Speaker 2 and see if they can drop your payment. It's not a refi, but it may help you in this situation.

Speaker 1 Thanks for the call, Julia. We're so sorry.
This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Up next, we have a Christian in Boston.
Hey, Christian, welcome to the show.

Speaker 2 Oh, did it go?

Speaker 2 Hey, Christian.

Speaker 2 Hey, what's up? Hey, Rachel just said that funny. Like, we have a Christian.

Speaker 2 We have a Catholic in Boston.

Speaker 2 We have Christian. We have this awesome guy named Christian.
What's up, dude? Christian, welcome.

Speaker 3 So I've been a long time social media watcher, never

Speaker 3 called in.

Speaker 3 So I'm 25 from Boston. I'll give you a little background before I guess I get to my question.
I'm 25. I have no debt at all.

Speaker 3 My net worth, I guess, with investments in cash, sits around $133,000, depending on how the market is.

Speaker 3 And last year, I took around $125,000 home. And I want to buy a watch, a luxury watch, a tutor.

Speaker 3 It will range probably with tax around $5,000 to $6K.

Speaker 3 I already have a Rolex. And so I guess my question is, with my finances, no debt, nothing, what is an appropriate amount of money to spend on a luxury watch?

Speaker 3 And if so, you know, does this make sense for me as a want, not necessarily a need to spend this amount of money on a watch?

Speaker 1 yeah i mean i think uh just a couple like tactical money questions do you so you got you have no debt

Speaker 1 none uh and you have savings an emergency fund yep okay oh yeah uh how much liquid cash do you have beyond your emergency fund

Speaker 1 uh

Speaker 3 beyond my emergency fund probably 35

Speaker 3 35 000 i have yeah and then i have obviously 401k my roth and then

Speaker 2 my master's investment account yeah

Speaker 2 What will this watch bring you? Like in your chest? Like in, like, if you have your fist on your chest, what will this watch bring you?

Speaker 3 I don't know. I kind of appreciate, I guess, the craftsmanship.
It's a nice watch. It looks cool.
It doesn't do anything different than my phone, you know, flipping it over. Sure.

Speaker 3 It's more or less just kind of like a want. You know, it's not like I'm buying it for some sort of, you know, to commemorate something.
You know, I turned 26 this month.

Speaker 3 Like, if you really want to call it, I'm buying it for something, I'm getting kicked off my parents' life insurance. Like, that's what I'm buying.

Speaker 2 Right, right.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I would guess this. So, Rachel, tell me,

Speaker 2 Rachel is better at this than me.

Speaker 2 I have bought guitars that are really expensive that I've thought were going to fill a hole in my heart, and they didn't. I love them.

Speaker 2 And I told people, like, no, no, no, they have a kind of tone, or they put, I needed this guitar to make myself feel better. So, there was that.

Speaker 2 I'll also tell you, just as a 25-year-old and I'm in my 40s,

Speaker 2 the single greatest flex I've ever seen when it comes to watches was doing an event with Jocko

Speaker 2 and dude rolls up with a Time X

Speaker 2 and we were talking about his watch and the way he said it and you know Jocko like from you know like the internet you remember but the way he said It tells the same time that everybody else, other watch tells.

Speaker 2 I just remember thinking like, you're the baddest dude I've ever met not to mention you know he's jocko but it was a it's almost a flex not to have it kind of thing yeah i remember i just and i guess that would be my warning to you as a 25 year old is if you want nice things and you got cash and you're like whatever whatever

Speaker 2 yeah you can afford it fine the thing is is i think sometimes

Speaker 2 I remember being 25, I remember being 35 and thinking I needed a pair of jeans, I needed a car that said, I needed shoes that said X, Y, and Z.

Speaker 2 And now that I'm older and I've hired a bunch of people in my life and I'm meeting meeting people all over the country, I was actually completely opposite wrong.

Speaker 2 The eyebrow gets raised when somebody walks into somewhere nice and they've got jeans on because you think, oh, that guy knows something I don't know.

Speaker 2 Or when they pull out their Time X and you know they're worth millions and millions of dollars, you end up going, oh, that's kind of awesome, actually. Right.

Speaker 2 And so, but, but you, I think cash to cash, you can afford it. It's a nice thing.

Speaker 1 Yeah, totally. And I think what John's saying, I think the sentiment of stuff is always just like just, I think it's an awareness within you, Christian.
And I do the same.

Speaker 1 I mean, like, I mean, I think there's just something to be said of when I want something, asking the questions, you know, if nobody sees this, do I still want it?

Speaker 1 How much of my motivation is for other people?

Speaker 1 How much of it is for my own ego to feel something? And even from a joy perspective, Arthur Brooks talks about this: that we can do five things with money.

Speaker 1 We can give it, save it, buy our time back, buy experiences with people we love, and buy stuff. And the one thing that does not bring lasting joy is stuff.

Speaker 1 So, again, this whole kind of concept of I'm buying this watch because I love it.

Speaker 1 Cause I have, I bought a purse for my birthday um last year and it was a nice purse and it was like okay think like whatever card what do I that nice of a person like no

Speaker 1 no do not no not that nice there are levels of purses it was not that kind of purse but but it wasn't from Target and so it was just this idea of like okay if I have this purse if I don't have this purse what does Rachel say about herself how's she feeling when she walks in a room like there's just a lot of introspectness I would have for myself the higher dollar amount you spend on something I think the more it's just kind of good to explore some of that And maybe it's more of a,

Speaker 1 you know, you can buy it and you're totally fine if you buy it. We are not against stuff.
Go get some nice stuff. Christian, you have set yourself up very well.
You make great money.

Speaker 1 You don't have debt. You've lived below your means.
Like you are doing great. You can buy this watch.
I just don't, John and I think our biggest caution with stuff is don't be under the illusion.

Speaker 1 that it's going to fulfill you long term and that it's going to bring some level of satisfaction because the way that things are marketed to us and the belief in that and what we wear, I mean, it is crazy, the status symbols that are out there and what we believe.

Speaker 1 And the thing is, people get in trouble with that. So again, I'm not worried about you from a money perspective at all.
I think you could probably buy two of these and you would be fine.

Speaker 1 But it's more about you long-term and who you are. Christian, you should ask John and Rachel what kind of watches and how much did they pay for theirs that we currently have.

Speaker 2 Huh?

Speaker 2 What do you guys got on? Oh, okay.

Speaker 1 Christian, I've got an Amazon watch for $15.

Speaker 1 John,

Speaker 1 what kind of watch do you have? This is such a flip of the script, which I love.

Speaker 2 I've got this dope

Speaker 2 Garmin watch. I love Garmin watches.
It's a free ad for Garmin. They're the best.
I love them.

Speaker 2 While we're on this topic, Rachel, tell us about how much your car that you rolled into the parking lot costs. Because mine costs $4,000.
You?

Speaker 2 Anyways, Christian. So here's the thing, Christian.

Speaker 2 We love nice stuff. I'll also say this.
If at 25 you can wrap your head around this idea.

Speaker 2 Because you have chosen to live the way you live, you have the opportunity. And I didn't find this out until I was old.

Speaker 2 You can buy it once really nice.

Speaker 2 If you buy with cash, if you buy a super nice pair of Wolverine thousand mile boots, you can resoll them and you can take care of them and you can give them to your grandkids.

Speaker 2 But they're really expensive out of the gate, right? And so if you say, I'm going to buy a couple of really nice watches, I love them. I'm kind of a watch guy, and that's cool and awesome.

Speaker 2 And no, this will fill no gap in my soul. I won't feel any better about myself.

Speaker 2 In fact, I'll feel a little bit weird because I'm going to see somebody who needs money the net following day or whatever.

Speaker 2 I know some people who have a rule that if they buy something really nice, they give that amount away or a percentage of that amount away just to balance their own soul out, whatever.

Speaker 2 But I love the idea of buying once and

Speaker 2 letting that just be that. I'm going to buy a nice.

Speaker 2 Go ahead.

Speaker 3 I don't mean to extend this conversation over, but is there like a rule or a percentage of a net worth that you'd be, you know, like a percentage of my net worth that I could spend on a want that wouldn't necessarily obviously break the bank, but it's like you're comfortable with just blowing.

Speaker 2 I love Dave saying,

Speaker 2 if you can light it on fire, if you could take that pile of cash, if you can take 5,000 bucks, set it on fire on your kitchen table and watch it burn to ash.

Speaker 2 And you're okay. And you're okay.

Speaker 2 It won't prohibit you.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's it. I mean, there's not really this like percentage.
I mean, we say things like with cars, like we always say like things with motors and wheels, right? Cars, camper, all that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, depreciating asset. Yeah, no more than 50% of your annual income.
Like there's some things around that. But when you you get to the point where you are, yeah, of,

Speaker 1 I mean, yeah, you're, you're beyond baby step three and you just have extra cash that you want to spend. So it just, you emotionally have to detach from that money.

Speaker 1 And if you can really do that and it doesn't keep you up at night, then you're good to go.

Speaker 2 Well, and it could be pathological. I would love for you to also like get a nice watch, dude.
You sound like you got a level head, man. Get a nice watch.

Speaker 2 And also start laying the groundwork to get your money out of crypto, whatever nonsense you have it in, and buy yourself a house that nobody can ever take from you, right? Some of those more stable

Speaker 2 assets that you can anchor into.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And to, you know, a well-balanced person, and you're learning this early, Christian.

Speaker 1 I mean, honestly, I mean, this is stuff that it's like so good to have because where you are financially, but always remember with money that you can spend it, you can save it, you can give it.

Speaker 1 And we say on the show, we are fans of all three.

Speaker 1 So as you continue to become more successful and continue to live below your means, you're going to continue to build wealth. You're going to have more and more savings.

Speaker 1 You're gonna have the opportunity to spend some more,

Speaker 1 but also be having that generosity muscle as well, because that is joy within money. And if you can get that early and live with it, there's a freedom and a joy there that's unbelievable.

Speaker 1 So, giving, saving, spending, doing all three. All right, Christian, have fun with your new watch.
This is The Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. So the best way to take control of your money, make the most of your money is to do a monthly budget, to know and have a plan on where your income's going.

Speaker 1 And every dollar makes this easy. It makes you

Speaker 1 have this

Speaker 1 honestly very intuitive way of how you plan your spending, how you track your spending, what you're saving for, your giving goals. I mean, everything is in every dollar.

Speaker 1 It really takes your income and walks you through how to have a plan for it and know where it's going.

Speaker 1 So, you can download every dollar for free in the app store or Google Play, or you can click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast.

Speaker 1 Up next, we have Dave in Springfield. Hey, Dave, welcome to the show.

Speaker 3 Thank you guys for taking my call.

Speaker 1 Absolutely. How can we help?

Speaker 3 Um, so I'm 21, I'm about to be out of college this year. I have no debt I paid it off as I went, um, but I'm my girlfriend didn't.

Speaker 3 And she's going to have about $70,000.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 3 every time I bring it up, she's just kind of dismissive about it. And I don't really

Speaker 3 want to pay off her debt in a way. You know what I mean? And I'm just not sure how to go about this in the future.

Speaker 2 You should just break up with her, dude.

Speaker 2 John,

Speaker 2 I'm serious. I mean,

Speaker 2 because here's the thing. You're both going to bring crap into this relationship, both of you.
And some of it you'll know right away, like $70,000 in debt.

Speaker 2 And if you're already already thinking, that's hers and like, ugh, she's bringing this into this and I don't want any part of it.

Speaker 2 Like that's just a down the road, you're going to run into, oh, I want to raise kids like this, but this is how my dad did it. Ugh.
Or I don't want to live in this neighborhood or this house.

Speaker 2 Like you're just like, if that's the, if that's your first impulse is what about me? Then you're not ready to get married yet. If she has $70,000.

Speaker 2 Does that make sense?

Speaker 2 So if she has $70,000 of debt and you're like, dude, I don't care what mountain I have to move, you're going to be like, I want you to be my wife and I want to build a life with you.

Speaker 2 Like hell hell or high water, you and I are paying this stuff off together, then awesome. You're off to the races.
We would never tell you don't get married because of student loan debt.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 when I say just break up with her, does that give you peace or does that make you mad?

Speaker 3 A little bit of both. Like me and her have been together a while.
It's not that I don't want to pay it off together.

Speaker 1 Is it more because of her attitude?

Speaker 2 More than happy.

Speaker 3 Yes, it's more of like she has no, like she doesn't want to pay it. It seems like she wants me to pay it is kind of like

Speaker 3 what I'm getting at.

Speaker 2 Okay, what's beneath that? Where else does that show up in your relationship?

Speaker 3 Honestly, nowhere. Like she, I mean, she's a little unmotivated.
Like she doesn't really, isn't really that ambitious like post out of college. She doesn't really want to do.

Speaker 3 She just kind of wants to do her thing, like live around the area and whatever. And I kind of been

Speaker 3 like, I did an internship in another city and I've been like, you know, exploring career opportunities.

Speaker 3 But she just kind of seems like stuck where she is. And I just like, I like like her a lot and I want to be with her, but it's just like such a weird thing.

Speaker 2 I think y'all should explore that conversation.

Speaker 3 Yeah, it's just like I try to go further, but she's just like not interested in like continuing that conversation. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 Beyond the money, though, Dave, like, hey, this is these are kind of, this is kind of what I value in life. This is what gives me energy.

Speaker 1 This is how I'm wired and what I'm excited about and trying new things and opportunities.

Speaker 1 And it feels like, you know, you're more just, you know, I don't know, I don't know if that kind of life long term is something that you want to, you know, be a part of.

Speaker 1 So I think it's, I think it's more of that conversation because what that leads to is her motivation around any, I mean, anything in life, right? Money, career,

Speaker 2 kids,

Speaker 2 cleanliness, how does the house look? Where do we live? And here's what, I'm, here's the, like, if you ask me what my big fear for you all right now is,

Speaker 2 and I'm not judging you for this, I'm just calling it out there's already a piece of you that feels like well I'm doing this and you're not doing that

Speaker 2 or to put it in a nerd terms you'll you're already in the scorekeeping world

Speaker 3 yeah I can understand that I just like when I look at like both of our situations like I think of everything I've done to get to where I am now I've worked so hard to be debt-free right now and and she just kind of like took the shortcut and it feels like

Speaker 2 and I don't know it just feels weird for me but here's a question You're asking her to go back in time and sign up for values that you had before y'all started dating. That's not fair.

Speaker 2 I hear that about sex. I hear that about money.
I hear that about debt. About, well, I did all of this stuff and we just met and now we're doing this.
And I don't feel like they dot dot dot.

Speaker 2 They didn't sign up for that set of values. The question is, will she agree to live a debt-free life moving forward with you?

Speaker 2 Because you say that's the way I feel like our family will be the most safe moving into the 21st century. And if she says, eh, I don't care, now y'all have a values issue.

Speaker 2 And you're, it's less about, do y'all have the same beliefs? Me and my wife have way different beliefs on all kinds of stuff.

Speaker 2 But one of our core values is if one of us raises a flag and says, this is a huge deal to me, the other person says, well, I don't give a crap. I'm in.
I'm in.

Speaker 2 And so if you're honest and say, this really is important to me, that we commit before we get married. I never want this family to be owned by a bank, by a car dealership, by whatever.

Speaker 2 And she's like, oh, I'm going to have a Tahoe.

Speaker 2 Then just know that y'all are going to have problems, like insurmountable problems because they're value problems.

Speaker 3 Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 2 Does that make sense? I hate to be the bearer of bad news, man. I feel like I just ruined your afternoon.

Speaker 2 I understand, yeah.

Speaker 2 But I want you to also be very careful because you're not better than her. You just took a different.
I'm not saying that. I know, I know, I know.

Speaker 2 But that frustration builds up and that's how it comes out.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Is I've done all this and you haven't done anything.
Right. And so it's kind of like, okay, can we agree on values?

Speaker 2 But almost always those values conversations, brothers, start with you sitting down saying,

Speaker 2 I'm scared about X, Y, and Z. It's important to me that our family never be owned by somebody.
Are you in on that? That means we're going to have to sacrifice here.

Speaker 2 We're going to have to work really hard for two years after we get married to pay off your debts. And that means you're going to have to get a full-time job, all those kind of things.

Speaker 2 But it starts with you saying what you really feel. What do you think, Rachel? Yeah.

Speaker 1 No, that's what I was going to say. I mean, this is like kind of a classic example, what we say on the show.
A lot of people call in about a money issue. You know, she has student loan debt.

Speaker 1 I don't know if I want to marry her. And it's not as much about the student loan debt.
It's more about the values around the relationship.

Speaker 1 And because we get people that call here all the time, like, yeah, my wife has, you know, $80,000 in student loan debt.

Speaker 1 You know, I brought some credit card debt in and we're working to pay it off together. I mean, like, it's a, it's a team effort there.

Speaker 1 And as you get into marriage, the less of a team you are and see each other as one and you're on each other's side, both of you, right? She's jumping into your boat, you're jumping into her.

Speaker 1 I mean, it's just this idea of like, you guys value the same thing together. It's not that life is necessarily easier, but there is a level of

Speaker 1 smoothness with that. I'm like, you're not running up against barriers constantly because of what you're desiring versus what she's desiring.

Speaker 2 Yeah, the world will give you enough resistance. Yes.

Speaker 2 You can't be fighting your partner while you're also trying to take on the world. It has to be you, y'all two versus the world.
Yep. Right.
Otherwise it just gets sideways really quick.

Speaker 1 Yep. So, and it sounds like you guys have been dating a while, Dave, is what you said.
And you guys are still young. And so maybe you started dating at 16 and you're a different person at 16 than 21.

Speaker 1 I mean, that's.

Speaker 2 It's heartbreaking, but it is

Speaker 2 Rachel, like,

Speaker 2 man, on, on

Speaker 2 my show, on the other show that

Speaker 2 I'm a part of, I get this all the time. I chose to not drink in high school and college, and this person did.

Speaker 2 And so, now, right? And I always want people to go back and say, you can't judge somebody on some values they didn't have before you met them. Right.
The question is, can we unite right now? Yes.

Speaker 2 And if you can't, if you can't get over that, then you can't bring, you're bringing baggage to the relationship.

Speaker 1 Right, right. And I think it's always a balance in marriage too, and in relationships, is that, you know, we always say opposites attract, right? It's like the old saying.

Speaker 1 And it is true, you're both going to have different levels of passion about different things. So it's not about becoming this like one individual person when you get married.

Speaker 1 You still are two individual people.

Speaker 2 But you're in the same boat.

Speaker 1 But that's it. Like, it's like, but we're still moving in the exact same direction, right?

Speaker 1 Winston's still going to have 18 Excel sheets with stuff, you know, out till we're 65 and I'm not going to know how to work them with.

Speaker 1 That will always be the case, but we are still working towards the same goals. And so the way we go about those things is different.

Speaker 1 And our interests are different in life, but that doesn't, yeah, it doesn't conflict with the values of our home and how our family unit is being driven. And that's where that's where it gets sticky.

Speaker 1 And if that's a red flag early, Dave, I mean,

Speaker 1 it's something to at least talk about. And, you know, and I'll give you guys this, not to like, I don't want to belittle you because you're young, but I'm like, y'all are still figuring this out.

Speaker 1 She's still figuring this out, you know?

Speaker 1 So have that conversation with her. But I would not break up with her because of the student loan debt.
I would very much possibly break up if you guys cannot get to a set of values.

Speaker 1 And I would not take a step into engagement until those are consistent. This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Welcome back. Up next, we have Jessica in Los Angeles.
Hey, Jessica, welcome to the show.

Speaker 3 Hi, how are you?

Speaker 1 We're doing well.

Speaker 2 How can we help?

Speaker 3 So, I'm just wondering how to go about applying the baby steps. Where my largest debt is

Speaker 2 to my grandmother who has helped us.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 1 All right. Tell us.

Speaker 1 Yeah. How much how much do you owe her?

Speaker 3 $6,000 now.

Speaker 1 $6,000?

Speaker 3 Yeah. And that is from a credit card that she co-signed with my fiancé so he could start his own business.

Speaker 2 Oh, wow. What a nice grandma.
I'm telling you.

Speaker 1 Okay, and so what's your other debt?

Speaker 3 In total, we are $10,344 in debt. Okay.
That's including our property taxes, our utilities, and our $2,200 in other credit card debt.

Speaker 2 Are you behind on your utilities and property taxes?

Speaker 3 Yes. So the thing is, my grandmother is

Speaker 3 pretty persistent in reminding us about the credit card debt. So we kind of, for example, his last check was $4,500.
We gave her $2,000 to try to bring that debt down.

Speaker 3 But the issue with that is that we rely on that credit card because for her, he's on the road for weeks out of time.

Speaker 1 Hey, Jessica, are you able to to talk into your phone a little bit more? We're trying to get it clearer.

Speaker 3 Oh, sorry. I'm a little nervous too.

Speaker 1 Oh, no, you're fine. You're fine.

Speaker 1 Okay, so, yeah, so she's persistent. She's wanting her payment.
She wants her $6,000. How much do you guys make a year?

Speaker 3 So he's been doing this business on his own for six months now.

Speaker 3 In the six months, he's made about $60,000.

Speaker 2 Okay. And how much do you make?

Speaker 3 I don't work at the moment.

Speaker 3 We're going through a new life transition. We're newly sober, and I'm trying to get our house back into a livable condition, basically.
We've only been sober for 40 days, but

Speaker 3 we just kind of, our whole life is chaos.

Speaker 3 And so since getting sober, we're trying to figure out how to be like functioning adults, you know, their priorities and learning how to be, you know, normal, I guess.

Speaker 2 Well, let me tell you this, Jessica. Number one, I'm super, super proud of you.
Congratulations.

Speaker 3 Thank you.

Speaker 2 That's awesome.

Speaker 2 The second thing is, is, and I know you've probably heard this over and over and over in your meetings, but you have to, have to, have to, have to, have to go get a job ASAP.

Speaker 2 It doesn't have to be a full-time job, and it for sure is not going to be your dream job or your passion job or whatever. But think of it this way:

Speaker 2 if you think of alcohol, like yourself chained to a bottle, you've been unchained for 40 days, but grandma calling you, the government calling you,

Speaker 2 your

Speaker 2 utility is possibly going to get cut off. That's like a squat rack.
It's like you're sitting under a squat rack and you got a squat bar on your back.

Speaker 2 And so now you're unchained, but you still can't run free.

Speaker 2 And so

Speaker 2 what I'm telling you is if you go get a job, even working 20 hours, you clock in, you clock out, and you're baby stepping your way into full-time employment, getting your feet underneath you.

Speaker 2 You're 40 days sober. You're still, I mean, your legs are still wobbly.
And I get it.

Speaker 2 Every minute you're making a choice to do the next right thing, if you go get a job working 15 hours a week, 20 hours a week, and you can contribute to this thing, it will be like putting,

Speaker 2 it will be like jet fuel to your life change.

Speaker 1 I mean, Jessica, if you could make three grand a month, you guys could be completely debt-free in three months.

Speaker 2 In three months.

Speaker 1 I mean, I mean, with his income, everything. So I would tell grandma, okay, our goal, grandma, is it's February, March, April, May.
Our goal is by the end of May, by the end of May, you will be paid.

Speaker 1 But we first have to take care of these back property taxes. Yes.
Because the government's right there. We're going to pay those off this month, grandma.

Speaker 1 I mean, you could even show her your, you know, you guys make a timetable and say how many hours.

Speaker 2 I would give her a payment schedule. Because my guess is grandma's calling because y'all have had.
Y'all have had challenges in the past. And she's having accountable.

Speaker 2 She wants to make sure she gets her money back. So you and husband make a map.
Here's a 12-month payment schedule. We're going to pay you this much, $250 every month or whatever it is.

Speaker 2 And then you will be paid off by this date. She's not hassling you.
She can check it off every month. But like Rachel said, you can't keep Robb and Peter to pay Paul.

Speaker 2 They're going to cut your lights off. They're going to take your house away.

Speaker 1 Yep.

Speaker 2 So I know grandma's hassling you and as she should be and she's frustrated, but you can't let them take your home. Right.
So let's get a payment schedule and give it to her.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And have a goal of you guys live on his income.
And Jessica, you bring home two to three grand a month. You know, you could do that with some part-time jobs.

Speaker 2 We're talking fast food. We're talking just clock in.
For sure.

Speaker 1 Well, go work at Target. Go Uber or like do something that really, yeah, allows you to just earn some extra income.
I mean, even if it's, you know, $25, $20 an hour.

Speaker 2 25 an hour. You need some little wins.
And I'm telling you, it'll be so transformative. I'm so excited for you.

Speaker 1 Good job, Jessica. I hope that helps.
Up next, we have Sharon in Cleveland. Hi, welcome to the show.

Speaker 3 Hi, thank you for having me, guys.

Speaker 1 You're so welcome. How can we help?

Speaker 3 So I have a kid going going off to college next year, and I am in a ton of debt. I have not made good financial choices or money choices.
I've never learned how, to be totally honest.

Speaker 3 But that's not an excuse. I just don't.
I just haven't made the good choices. And so it was recommended to me to file bankruptcy.

Speaker 3 And I just need to know if that's even like a wise thing to do.

Speaker 3 A lot of credit card debt.

Speaker 1 Okay, walk me through your debts real quick. How much debt?

Speaker 3 Okay, so I have student loans. I know that bankruptcy doesn't take care of those.
So I have over 100,000 in student loans, I believe.

Speaker 1 Is that like right at like right at 100 or like 120?

Speaker 3 I think it's about 125.

Speaker 1 125 in student loans.

Speaker 2 Okay, keep going.

Speaker 3 I have about 20,000 in credit card debt.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 3 I just had to buy a new car'cause my old car clunked out on me. That one was paid off.
So now I have a car loan.

Speaker 2 How much is the car loan?

Speaker 3 I'm at 26,000 is what I owe my car.

Speaker 3 And then I have two civil suits from credit card companies.

Speaker 1 Okay. And how much are those?

Speaker 3 One is $9,000 and the other is $6,000.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 And how much do you make a year?

Speaker 3 I make $30,000 a year. I work in ministry for my church.

Speaker 2 Oh, you can't do that anymore. Sharon, I'm so sorry.

Speaker 3 I know.

Speaker 2 You have to let them know that you love them, but yeah.

Speaker 2 You can't breathe, hon.

Speaker 3 I can't.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And I know you, you want to do this ministry, and I know you do good work for people, but you got to take care of your family, and you've dug yourself a pretty big hole, and you got to go get it.

Speaker 1 What's your degree in?

Speaker 3 I have a communications degree and a master's in education.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 What would you, if you weren't doing what you're doing now,

Speaker 1 what's like probably the most realistic next step career-wise for you, do you think?

Speaker 3 Probably going back into the school system.

Speaker 1 Okay. And how much, how much would starting out be if you if you started as a teacher?

Speaker 3 Probably about 45, 40 between 40 and 45. Okay.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 So that would be, that would be my next step. I would go talk to them tomorrow.
I mean, I hate to say it, math.

Speaker 2 That's a 50% raise. Let me put it that way.
And 45 is not enough, but that's a 50% raise.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that, you know, and I think too, you know, nonprofit ministry work, all of that. I mean, we, we are big fans of people in those worlds.
And,

Speaker 1 and maybe eventually that's your goal to get back there, right?

Speaker 1 I mean, if you could imagine having no payments, having an emergency fund, having a great retirement set up, and you're like, you know, I can, I can go back to 35 because I have everything set up, right?

Speaker 1 That would be a goal for you, which I think is amazing. But for right now, reality,

Speaker 1 it would be that. So, what I would do is

Speaker 1 your car,

Speaker 1 I would sell it.

Speaker 2 I would sell your car tomorrow.

Speaker 1 Sell it because I mean, it's basically how much you make in a year. And I would go get a $5,000 car.
If you can get a difference, I wonder how much, have you, Kelly Blue Book did it all?

Speaker 1 I know you just bought it, but have you seen if you could, have you looked up if you could sell it?

Speaker 3 No, I haven't, but I will.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 Even if you have to take $5,000 down to the credit union

Speaker 2 and you're upside down on it, I'd rather you do that because then you only owe $10,000.

Speaker 2 You're going to take a $5,000 loan out, pay the difference off because you're upside down, and take out a $5,000 loan to buy a car.

Speaker 1 Was it a brand new car or was it used when you bought it?

Speaker 3 No, it was brand new.

Speaker 1 It was brand new. Okay, so you'll probably take, yeah, you'll take a hit.
So hopefully you could still get maybe like, you could maybe sell it for $21, $22,000.

Speaker 1 You'll take a little bit of a smaller loan

Speaker 1 for a difference. It gets you a $4,000 car.
And that'll at least free up that car payment.

Speaker 2 But no, do not, do not, do not file bankruptcy. You're not there yet.
Hang on the line.

Speaker 2 We'll hook you up with Financial Peace University and the Every Dollar Premium app for free and give you the education that you're missing. But do not file bankruptcy.
You're not there yet.

Speaker 1 This is The Ramsey Show.