If You Want to Build Wealth, Stop Acting Like Everyone Else

This is the Ramsey Show. Welcome, America.
We're here to help you win with your money, win in your profession, and win with your relationships alongside the graceful, the fabulous Rachel Cruz,

fresh off of her first inaugural ball, I might add. We might hear about that.
We might not. She joins me.
I'm Ken Coleman, and we're here for you. The phone number is 888-825-5225.
888-825-5225. And these are serious topics, but we like to have some fun.

We do our best to smile and coach you up because we want you to win. So it's going to be fun today.
You ready to go, partner? Let's do it. She's ready.
Megan joins us in Des Moines, Iowa. Megan, how can we help today? Hi.
So excited to talk to you today. I listen every day, so this is kind of surreal.
Oh, thank you. I'm looking for some advice on bringing up estate planning with my multimillionaire in-laws who are unwilling to have a conversation with my husband and I, but state that he and his brother will both be taken care of when they pass.
How do we inquire so we know where the assets are in the event of long-term care or their passing. Wow.
Man. Sounds like you've tried, and they're not interested.
So I'm not sure that there's some unique strategy we're sitting on top of, because it sounds like they're like, look, you're fine. We'll let you know when we're gone.
Sounds like to me. Yes, essentially.
Yeah, I said 50-50. You know, it's just my husband and his brother, and he said, you know, you're taken care of.
Let me ask you this. What is it that you all want to know? Let's just assume that they were like, sure.
What is it that you're looking to discover? Well, mostly there are multiple properties involved, as well as a business that my father-in-law owns. And we have no idea, because we're not in that specific field, what we would need to do in the event of, you know, potentially selling that or his passing.
So yeah, that's our major concern. All right.
So that reveals the answer to my next question, Rachel, is going to be why? Like, why do you want to know what it is that you want to know? And it seems like you guys are trying to be thoughtful, strategic. Yeah.
And how have the conversations gone so far? Because you obviously know that they're not interested in talking about it. So who has brought them, who has brought up the idea of having these conversations to them? So my husband has brought them up.
He is the oldest and we have a young family, so he's kind of more thinking

about the future for those reasons. And they've also made it very clear that they do not want me

involved in the conversations. Why? So that throws another added bonus.
Well, I'm not sure. Do you

have a good relationship with them now? Barely. I mean, we're not best friends, but it's not,

you know, adversarial. And what about his brother? Is he married? He is not.
Okay. I think you've got to take a sign here.
And I want to go back to my line of questioning. Yeah.
So to the best of your ability, you guys need to just run a scenario, feels like to me, where you go, all right, let's say they give us this property and that property. What would we need to know to be able to be prepared to make the most of that? Go ahead and run that exercise out.
You don't need to know which ones. If you know the whole portfolio and you know that you could get, and I'm getting, I mean, let me just walk you through this.
How many properties are we talking about total? Three properties, two are rentals. One is a, you know, a main home in which they live in and the total is about 2.5 million okay great and they are owned assets go do your homework on those three properties what is it that you feel like you would need to know if you were to come into ownership today whatever you told us your concerns were go ahead and figure that out yeah and i think too megan you know you can only control what you can control they're not they're i mean you guys have kind of asked them and they're not going to give it so yeah like ken said earlier in the call we don't have some secret like line to give you that suddenly they decide to tell you everything so what i would do what i can control if i was in your scenario and this was my parents is my sibling because that's where they can that's where the the butting heads could start to happen the fractured relationships it's not the parents because if they're gone they're gone who's left is him and his brother so if I were him I mean I would get in a room with his brother and be like hey let's just play like to your point let's play out some scenarios just so we can so we can plan out as much as we can with the information we have and then and then that's all we can do I mean so I would just make sure that that relationship is is in a healthy place because the calls that we do get a lot on here are when a family member dies and it's handed off to siblings and their adult siblings with other kids.
It starts to get messy and all this. So if you can shore up that relationship, that's what you can do.
But, yeah, I mean, you can't force them to tell you guys. And we're on Team Megan, okay, Megan? So take this the right way.
I'm on your team. Okay.
They've made it clear for some reason, and I'm not a therapist and nor am I a mind reader, but it's pretty clear to me that they've made it clear that they don't want you involved. So they're feeling something, whether you did something or not, that's not the point.
The point is they've laid out a boundary. I feel like, and it doesn't matter why we don't know and you may not know but you need to respect the boundary because it's only going to create what Rachel is saying some tension so you need to go you know what a they're not my parents b they've made it clear to my hubs that they don't want me involved so you know what I'm not involved And that would be my advice from a relationship standpoint.

Let this go.

Because I can tell you that we can feel it on you right now.

There's some angst that you have.

You can hear it on you.

Because this is irritating to you.

And that's okay.

But you've got to deal with that.

Because you don't have any control.

Rachel nailed that.

So sorry we can't give you a hack.

I mean, other than, you know, hiring some former CIA operative yeah and i think you know the family money dynamic you want to you want to wade in carefully especially as an in-law and like my in-laws are so wonderful they they are very open with us and every other year we get together as a family and his dad has even said to the in-laws like i want your thoughts and opinions i mean he's i mean they're very kind in that way but i still am very aware i'm not their kid like like like there's you know what i mean like there's still a and even like i think even within the ramses like they know everything and and again mom and dad would love and appreciate and respect the opinions of the in-laws for sure but there's still just that small level of just social awareness of like okay these, these are not my parents. Or, you know, I'm the in-law that I think is appropriate to, I don't know, maybe people disagree with that.
But I think there's a level of like, when you are their kid in blood, there's a level of holding that they have that an in-law never will. Yeah, I mean, what went off in your head when you heard her say, they've made it clear that they don't want me involved.
I'm just curious, your female intuition and also your professional intuition. What did you think? That it's obviously not a great relationship.
That's what I thought. Because then you asked her and she said, fairly.
It's okay. When someone asked me, if you ask me, do you have a good relationship with somebody? And if and if I drop fairly on you you know it's probably not going well I don't think it's great it's certainly not great and I think there's some problems though too fairly I will say too it depends on the day the that generation the parents generation too is a more private generation right you think about late boomers, even into the generation, you know, before them.
So in her defense, they could just be very private people that don't feel comfortable regardless of whether they have a relationship or not. And her reasons were good, but I think they can get their, the reasons why, I think they can plan for it either way.
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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman and Rachel Cruz is joining me.
We're here for you, America. You got a question about your money.
You got a question about your income. That's what you got today.
You got two people love to weigh in on that. And we work together to help you.
So triple eight, eight, two, five, five, two, two, five. That's the number.
Let's go to river. Now see, that's a great name.
If my name was river Coleman, I'd be far more credible. You know what I mean? Exceed the success.
I have a lot more Instagram followers as well. But alas, my name is Ken, but I'm already jealous.
River in Columbus, Ohio. River, I'm jealous, but happy to talk to you.
How can we help? Hey, what's going on, guys? So, yeah, I kind of have a mess. I'm 20.
My fiance is 23. Together, we have roughly $151,000 in debt.
That's between student loans and an $18,000 auto loan. That's it? Just the student loans and the truck? Yes.
Okay. okay that's it um i my student loans i have i think it's like 33 000 and the rest is her i think she has like 120 some thousand but yeah it's confusing it's all through sally may yeah what is uh what was her degree in so she's a multimedia journalist she's a news reporter at a news station in west virginia what did she get her degree in mass media multimedia did she go yeah did she go out of state to a private college what she did where did she go she did yeah yeah she did and how much is she making now so she's making 18 an hour i I'm making $18 an hour.
But her commute is like an hour and 20 minutes. Oof.
Okay, so how much are you guys bringing in a month after taxes? Like what's hitting your paycheck right now? Or like what's hitting your bank account, you guys together? So together, so we aren't joint accounts yet. So right now, my situation, I'm bringing in roughly $2,400 a month.

She's around the same.

Okay.

What are you doing for work?

So I work at a credit union, and yeah. Okay.
you want to do what are you aiming for you know i'm not really sure i'm still in school i'm a junior in college right now getting my bachelor in business administration i'm paying this semester out of pocket trying to cut good the loans out and the reason I asked the question, I'm not trying to solve that

problem right now, but I am trying to figure out what can we do to get more income? Because that's

a part of this equation. Well, and she's not making, I mean.
Neither one of them. Yeah, I mean, yeah,

you're very limited right now. And that's a part of this equation.
Yeah, and I did just get a

promotion too. So I'll be making $21 an hour starting in the middle of February.
Okay, so help Rachel out. She'll walk you through this, but I know you guys are engaged.
What is your debt? What is yours? Is yours 155 or is that both of you? That's together. But you guys aren't together.
And just to help rachel separate what your debt is versus the fiance's debt well yours is 33 000 student loans right yeah and his one or hers is 120 mine's 30 yeah mine's 33 student loan 18 truck okay i got that part i misunderstood okay got it never mind all right so we got we breakdown. Yeah, but is she making close to what, $30,000? That's what I'm trying to understand.
Yeah, she's making roughly like $31,000. Okay.
So, I mean, here's the fast track of it all, which you're probably not going to like. But if getting out of debt is your number one idea, you guys both both have to make more money and if this is her dream and what she wants to do she is she only on air for a certain amount of time like what are her hours is she an early morning um anchor or a reporter you said she's midday midday midday she's nine to six okay no money in that industry at this point well that's how i mean like i don't know for a short term there's a shift and you go find something making 45 right i mean like you're just like even 15 000 more with a side hustle which i know crushes her dreams and this is this is not to pick on your wife river or you but america this is this is what we're talking about we talk about student loans she took out a hundred and twenty,000 in student loans to make $30,000 a year.
Yeah. With very limited opportunity.
I mean, honestly. And so there is a lesson to be learned always.
But for you guys, I mean, you're in it now. So obviously you can't go backwards.
So, I mean, if I were her, I'm like, you know what? I'm going to do anything for two to three years to get this cleaned up.

So, River, is she one, and by the way, do I understand this and support this?

Yes.

Is she one that goes, I want to take my shot and I want to go to New York, L.A.

I want to be in a top ten market one day.

Is that her thing?

Is she really ambitious for that?

Is that a clear goal?

She really is. Okay, then.
So that means, yeah. So here's my point.
So if I were coaching her one-on-one, I'd say, all right, so you do have to stay in the game. However, you are going to have to work other jobs, do some freelance publicity, do something when you're not on set to increase her income.
She's got to at least look for a 25% to 40% bump through some type of industry-adjacent work in this season. I wouldn't recommend she drop out if her goal is to move up in market, which by the way, that's how you make more money is you go from Columbus to San Diego, San Diego to Miami.
Well, you go from reporter to anchor. I mean, like there's like, right.
That's the latter. Yeah, for sure.
But that takes time and they're limited positions. That is a hang on and be really, really good at your job.
And I would go, I mean, I could be wrong too, but I feel like that's a hard industry to have any level of freelance. You be better waiting tables from that's from seven

you know what i mean like yeah yeah yeah so um so it's just it's the income problem river for you guys i mean you just have to up your income it absolutely is um so and here's a question so the loans her loans are broken down to like four or five different loans and they're 22 thousand dollars000, $20,000, they're attached with a 12% interest rate. I was thinking, you know, it's probably best to, you know, refinance these loans, get it consolidated and, you know, kind of go that route.
Yeah, you can for sure. I mean, I would say that's the only type of debt I would recommend consolidating are student loans because you usually don't go back into that debt.
A lot of people play this game because I think math is their problem and interest rates are their problem, but their problem really is it's the behavior, right? The secret of getting out of debt is not the smaller interest rate, even though that can help you to a degree. The real secret of getting out of debt is this intensity, this gazelle intensity we talk About where it's like no lifestyle nothing You're working insane amount of hours And you just get it paid off right And so I think that I so I wouldn't Put a lot of hope but again I would yes if you guys can Get a better interest rate again it's the one Type of debt I would be okay with you guys consolidating But don't have your hope That because you consolidate because you consolidate, it's going to be okay.
Do you know what I mean? Like that there still needs to be that level of grit with you guys in this because... Oh, absolutely.
Yeah. Yeah.
But yeah, if you get a better interest rate, for sure, River, I think that that's a fine move. But again, math is usually not the problem.
And I always want to reiterate that when we're getting out of debt. It's not that it really is this, this hope and who you guys are as a couple and teaming up and saying, okay, this is what our life's going to look like for the next three years.
Yeah. I appreciate the call river.
And again, you guys can do this. It is not easy, but it is simple.
For sure. And I mean, to, to just loosen the burden a little bit, that $18,000 truck, it's right on the border of selling or not.
But if you can get that down, even if you're underwater, $2,000 to $3,000 and go get a beater, I mean, that's taking a chunk off too. So be considering that, River.
We didn't ask, but if you look at the data, Rachel, I believe the number is the average car payment in America right now is like north of $750. Yeah, a new one is $781.
So let's just play off of that. So let's just imagine that his car payment is somewhere between $500 and $700.
I don't think that's a stretch. No, no.
That's a massive raise for a young man like this who's about to get married. That's right.
That's right. If you split the difference and go $600, I don't have to take my boots off to add this one.
That's $7,200 a year, $600 times $12. I don't have to take my boots off to add this one.
That's $7,200 a year. 600 times 12.
Yeah, you know, I don't have to use my digits. I can do that quick multiplication.
I paid attention. I paid attention to that level.
Old man Ken jokes. Yeah, I know.
You like them once you get them. I know.
Once you get them, she likes them. Sometimes I have to explain it during the commercial.
River, we're cheering for you all. Come on, River.
You can do it. Keep on flowing.
This is The Ranch. All right, Dave, you have some strong opinions.
Possibly, yeah. Yeah, I think so.
Okay, because you really prefer credit unions over big banks. So why is that? Well, credit unions, for one thing, are non-profit, which means that the members, the customers, own the credit union.
So any profits that the credit union makes goes back into customer pricing. So you get better interest rate on savings, cheaper checking, and so on, that kind of thing.
But what's more important than that, that though is the fact that the customer is the owner changes the spirit on the credit union so i find very few credit unions that aren't very customer centric yes well and i think we have found one that is incredible and that's fair wins they are an incredible credit union that is really out with the heart to help the customer you know that's why we're're partnering with them because they've got a scope to be able to handle the Ramsey audience and they're the right kind of people with the right kind of values. And they've done a really, really good job with customer service and the deals that they're offering.
The Ramsey tribe is incredible. Yeah, absolutely.
And you're right. Their customer service is unbelievable.
Winston and I just signed up and we got an account. And I'm not kidding.
It took less than five minutes. It was so user-friendly.
The step-by-step approach was unbelievable. And then the next day, my phone rings and it says Fairwinds on my phone.
So I answered it and talked to someone there. And they said, yeah, they give calls to every new customer.
And so, again, they just really care about your experience. And I so, so appreciate that.
So again, you guys, I know it can be a pain to switch banks or to open up new accounts, but Fairwinds, again, they make it so easy. Plus anything that you can do at a traditional branch, you can do with them at fairwinds.org or on their app.
And you'll have free access to over 33,000 ATMs. Hey, you guys know how much I hate banks in general.
And so for me to do this is a big deal. Talk to our friends at Fairwinds and check out the combined checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsey tribe.
You guys, it's incredible. Yeah, you guys, it's so easy to join Fairwinds no matter where you live.
So go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey to learn more. That's F-A-I-R-W-I-N-D-S dot org slash Ramsey.
Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Alongside Rachel Cruz, I'm Ken Coleman.
We're thrilled to have you with us. The phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225.

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Today's question comes from Chase in Missouri. I'm new to investing and was playing around with the investment calculator on your website.
I found that if you invested a thousand,000 for my baby at 10% and never put any more in, she could retire at the age of 70 with over $1 million. Not $100 million, $1 million.
Is that right? And if so, why isn't this common practice? I don't have my investment calculator pulled up, but over 70 years. Are you going to pull it i'll do my best yeah ramsey investment calculator um yeah i mean i mean compound interest is powerful and over 70 years i probably wouldn't be surprised um if you put no more in at 10 of a rate of return and so why isn't this common practice you ask, I mean, there's maybe a couple of reasons.
One, I think parents don't have $1,000 to put in. I think there's a level of margin that people are trying to find.
I mean, also, you know, when you are investing for a child, you know, the recommendation of you having to be really over it because a minor can't open up their own account so it would be your name in it and you know, the recommendation of you having to be really over it because a minor can't open up their own account. So it'd be your name in it and, you know, being able to transfer it to them long-term is an option too.
So, and investing, I would say too, 960. So here's what we got.
I put in the current age of one. He may be thinking zero, but you know, I just did quick numbers, retire at 70, you only put a

thousand dollars in and you never contribute monthly. And you're on this number, you are

getting an annual return of 10%. So I could drop that to 8% for the cynics.
And let's see what that

does. So it's a lot different, 245,000.
So there you go. But yeah, the question holds.
Why don't more people do it? Because they don't understand compound interest. How many years or years have we taught that simple lesson of compound interest? And just most people don't even think about it.
Yeah, and I think in investing overall, it can be an intimidating factor of money. And if you don't feel like you fully understand it, you're less apt to probably go into that world, I would say.
But yeah, there's power in that. And then always, I think about 40% of Americans can't cover a $400 emergency in cash.
So to have $1,000 that's not for you and your emergency fund, there's a lot of people that don't have it. But I agree with you, Chase.
That's great. By the way, I adjusted the number to zero.
I didn't know if the thing would let me do it. So a newborn baby, it would get to $1,065,261 at the age of 70 at a 10% annual return.
So there you go. There you go.
It was correct. You know, I usually let the money personalities do that, James, but I feel pretty good there after a test run right there under pressure.
I'm so proud of you. I'm glad you did it.
I'm having fun with this, folks, because if I can do it while hosting a show with my squirrel running around in my brain, you need to be going to RamseySolutions.com and start plugging it in. Use the investment calculator.
Imagine how much fun you can have with it when you're not hosting a show while doing it. So it's's great i think that was a wonderful uh exhibition there madison is up in phoenix arizona madison how can we help today yeah my question is first of all thank you for taking my call of course my question is should i pay off my house while continuing to look for work tell us about the look for work first and what is your uh what is your bridge right now as far income? Savings you're living off of? Give us a quick picture.
There is no income. Zero income.
There is no income. Okay.
Correct. I have been out of work almost a year.
So I had set money aside. I've been following the Ramsey program.
I set money aside enough to get me through whatever I needed to get to,

and that year is coming up. So I have...
Have you been paying off your house through that emergency fund that you had set aside? Meaning... That was just money for housing and bills.
I have a separate emergency fund as well. Oh, okay.
So what I'm asking you, though, is I'm just curious, that money you had set aside, had you been paying your house payment, paying it off or working on that up until this point

through that fund? Yes. Yes.
Well, no, I wouldn't be doing, I mean, we would tell you to slow down,

pause everything. You got to get some employment here.
I love that you had an extra rainy day fund.

How much do you have saved, Madison, total? I have, let's see, what were the numbers here? I have about almost $4,000. That's your emergency fund? Well, so there's $1,900 left for what I had just for the housing expenses right and then i have two thousand dollars in an emergency fund i just broke it down individually okay and you asked if you you should pay off your house how much is left on your mortgage 72 000 what would you pay it off with are you saying putting extra towards your house above the mortgage? No, paying it off.
No, that's the right question. Madison, you don't have any income.
Well, where would you get the $72,000 to pay it off? So that's and I have enough to pay it off as well. Okay, you buried the lead.
So you have $72,000 somewhere else? Yes. Okay.
How much money do you have total? What's your net worth? Cash, sorry, not net worth, just cash. Okay, so I don't have a calculator from me, so I have $72,000, $1,900, and $2,000.
Okay, where where is the 72,000 currently? Is it investments or just a savings account? It's in savings. Okay what were you going to use that for? What was that fund for in general? I had designated it for I had it designated in separate accounts so say say, for example, I needed a car.

Okay.

I don't know where I could pay off a car.

Okay. So you had that.

Do you have any retirement?

I do.

How much do you have in that?

About $250,000.

Okay.

How old are you?

I'm in my mid-50s.

Okay.

Okay.

That's going to be okay.

If you were to never touch that, by the time you're in your 70s, that that's going to be a really nice number here's what i'm confused about rachel uh madison why aren't you working i understand it's hard sometimes to get back into market but to go 12 months with zero income doing something and you're whittling down these other two accounts i'm just not i don't understand why why you're not working that's what I don't understand either. No, no, no, no.
Well, let me rephrase. What field were you in? Medical, and I also have a degree in law enforcement.
What were you doing? What was the last job you had 12 months ago? I was working in the medical field. Doing what? As an administrative, I held an administrative role.
Making how much? Around $50,000 a year. Okay.
My point is you don't sit around, and not that you're sitting, let me rephrase that. You don't just keep applying and do all this, and if nothing's happening, you don't just keep pulling money out of the savings account.
I'm proud of you and glad you had it. But you need to start to happen to life and life is happening to you.
I don't understand with that skill set why you aren't applying for multiple different types of jobs. I don't care if it's a shift manager at Home Depot or at Banana Republic or I'm driving.
I'm doing something. You have got to be bringing in income because I guess you don't need a whole lot.
Like what do you need to actually survive each month to cover your bills? We only got about a minute. So give me a real quick answer.
I would say $1,300. You need $1,300 to, to survive.
Correct. Go make $1,300 in February doing something.
Now I want to bring it back to Rachel to answer the bigger question. She's got $72,000 in the bank.
No, I wouldn't until I have a stable income coming in. I agree.
Yeah. Okay.
Yeah, to make sure that you can eat and everything. But, yeah, you've set yourself up really well, Madison, and I just don't want you to continue to be in this rut that you've been in to a degree for a year.
Because what's happening is it's just like everything's shrinking, shrinking, shrinking, shrinking, shrinking, shrinking. And I want to stop that momentum and let it go the other way.
And to Ken's point, it's not like a crazy amount. $1,300.
That's the great news. You can do this, Madison.
And you know what? There's lots of things that you can do. Hold on the line, Madison.
Can we give her a copy of my book, The Proximity Principle? Read this and do this and go get paid. This is The Ramsey Show.
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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Alongside Rachel Cruz, I'm Ken Coleman, and we're here for you, America.
Thank you for being with us. Hey, we just had a wildly successful virtual event last night, and that leads me to tell you we are coming back with part two of what was a successful event last year.
It's a two-night virtual event known as Investing Essentials. This is with Dave Ramsey and George Camel.
This was a wildly successful event last year because people know that investing, Rachel, is very confusing. It's intimidating.
And so in this event, we're going to cover everything through maximizing your 401k and mutual funds. And then Dave is going to give his personal playbook on how he invests in real estate.
So this is not an Instagram reel with eight cuts and cool music designed to get you to click a link. This is a tried and true investing strategy that Dave has done for many decades.
So that's also a popular part of this. It is happening March 4 and 5.
So put that on your calendar or go ahead right now to RamseySolutions.com slash events, RamseySolutions.com slash events, and you can sign up. Tickets start at $199 March 4 and 5.
So that will be fun. Love to see you there.
All right, Bobby's up in Atlanta, Georgia. Bobby, how can we help today? Hey, guys, how are you? Good.
How are you doing today? Doing all right. So my fiance and I are getting married in April.
All right, congrats. And she, you, she was born and raised in Scotland, and she still lives there.
So we've been long distance for about almost eight years. Where in Scotland? She's on the West Coast, so she's basically right on the water about 40 minutes from Glasgow.
Oh, man. I love Scotland.
Are y'all going to move there? Yes. No, she's actually moving here to Georgia.
Boy, she's really trading it in. Downgrade for her.
Bobby, you must be a very convincing or charming young man. Maybe very handsome too.
I'd do my best, or at least I've fooled her well. That's right.
Hey, real quick question, and we'll get down to the important stuff. What America wants to know, is the wedding in Scotland, and are you going to wear a kilt? So, yes, it is in Scotland.
And? It's right on one of the locks there, and I am not wearing a kilt. How many kilts will be at the wedding, though? I'm a little disappointed.
No, I bet a lot of the attendees will wear kilts. True? Actually, you would be surprised, because half of her family is English, and, of course of course all of my family is american and so there's only probably going to be 25 percent of the people there wearing kilts well you know i'll take it and bobby i know i'm not getting an invite but if i was to be invited the coleman line of the crest or your pat your like the plaid i would wear one i really would with the high socks i'd commit to the whole bagpipe down the down the aisle that's great all right well we are we are having bagpipes down the aisle so there is that bobby listen i could be talked into hosting the reception email my team we'll talk about it we'll see if we can make it work all right bobby this is great so you guys grew up uh different money culture the way you looked at i don't know well that's what he said no he said that she grew up in scotland it's different okay so what's your question bobby she's correcting me i know where he's going so so um yeah she she doesn't know what a 401k is doesn't know what a roth ira is Man, different culture.
We didn't know that was the issue. She's sort of familiar with the baby steps just from what I've talked to her about it, and she knows who Dave Ramsey is.
But I'm trying to figure out what's the best way to kind of get her on board with the baby steps and kind of she's a little bit nervous or hesitant about the intensity of the baby steps. Sure.
Okay. So there's that and then the culture.
Yeah, for sure. Okay.
So I would start high level with you guys and just being agreeing on value systems at which money will play in on the relationship. So a value system would be, you know, when we have money or do we want to be giving some of this money? Is that part of our plan? Do we how much, you know, is savings something that she gives her a level of security? Right.
Is there a tool or is it a disease? Yes. Yes.
How is debt playing? So less like I would go less baby steps and more just a little bit of that value system, because that's a human thing, not an American thing. So you can look at money because they have money in Scotland.
So it's just like, let's together get on the same page. Do they have money over there? Thank you for revealing that.
How we implement it over here, how does that look? So if we both agree, yes, savings is important. She may be more of a spender naturally, right? And that's okay.
Opposites attract. But yes, we want to be saving for the future.
We want a good retirement. So what's the best way to do that in America? A 401k, a Roth IRA, right? These vehicles at which you can do that.
And if we have debt and we want to live without debt and not have payments because that gives us peace and because we can use our income to go on great vacations and use our income to save for the future and to give like that's why we want to be out of debt right so you kind of start high level and then from there the baby steps is just a plan to get you from point a to point b but do you guys have debt right we we do not we are debt free oh that's great so that fast forwards everything for sure so now it's emergency fund yeah right out of the gate when you guys get married yeah is she on this is she agreeing that you guys want to work together as a team like does she see this as a topic of life to say like yeah bank account yeah like yeah absolutely we're gonna we're gonna do pretty much everything together okay um yeah and kind of right now she's kind of of the breadwinner. I'm currently not employed because I'm finishing up my flight instructor rating.
Nice. And so I'll be a flight instructor pretty much immediately after we get married.
But right, or yeah. What will your starting salary be? Do you have any idea? So it's going to be an hourly position, but ballpark, I'm hoping around $50,000.
Good. $35,000 would be like the absolute, absolute low.
Okay. And how much will she be making? We don't know yet just because we don't know what she's going to be doing.
What's her profession? Yeah. So she has a degree in international event management.
So that kind of means she can do weddings. She can do corporate events.
Let me tell you something. Atlanta, if you guys are anywhere near the Atlanta area, that's a big event town.
So that's good news. It's good news for her.
She's done everything under the sun, whether it's social media or event planning or serving. We we're totally not worried about her finding a job.
Amazing. Okay.
So how much are you guys? You did outkick your coverage. How much are you guys bringing in to the marriage? Just money wise.
Like how much does she have? How much do you have? So I, on my side, we have about 38,000 in savings and that comes from, and that comes from an inheritance. Okay.
And how about her? And then she's bringing probably over just shy of $10,000. Okay.
Perfect. Both of us have very little expenses because we both live with our parents right now, and it just didn't make sense for us to move into apartments each and then have to move again.
That's smart. I love that move.
That's great. And so when you guys get married, I guess you'll be renting probably for a year or two.
Is that what you're thinking? Yes. Yep.
Okay. That's the plan.
Perfect. So yeah.
So I mean, I think you guys are probably more on the same page than you realize. So I would sit down together and just say, okay, yeah, let's like figure out, you know, the next couple of years and what we want our goals to be.
And we have a goal of making 100 grand, 50 and 50 or something, right? Kind of have like an income goal. And then from there, we want to put some away for retirement.
I think she'll love the emergency fund concept. Just big picture.
I thought your advice was really great. Well, thank you, Ken.
I mean that. They're advanced in the baby steps in that.
Like they're going to start at baby step three. And we build that.
I think any woman, any human wants that safety. So explaining that concept to her, you're already halfway there, it looks like.
And so the investing part that Rachel's talking about, I mean, and then saving for kids, college and all that stuff. I would just ease her into it, man.
And just focus on the positive vision stuff because you don't have a problem that you're trying to fix right out of the gate. I thought it was great.
Yeah. And I think, you know, making it a goal for a house.
I mean, you guys are in a position that your emergency fund is pretty much done, I think. And then beyond that, like, okay, let's like run some numbers and dream.
Winston, I just did this last week. And it's always a fun thing to do where you're like, all right, let's just dream.
How much do we think we want for a down payment? And then you put it in Excel or a calculator or whatever it is. It's like, how much do we need to save every year? How much do we need to save every month? And you kind of start having these goals towards these dreams that you guys, a life that you're building together, which is beautiful.
Hold on the line, Bobby. Taylor's going to pick up and we're going to give you Financial Peace University for you guys to watch these lessons together because that was really helpful for her.
So fun. Yeah.
Just to kind of get these concepts of American way of doing money. By the way, a nod to our Scottish friends.
If you look, if you're watching, you see this green sweater I have on. You can't see below the desk, but imagine me in a blue and green kilt right now that

matches the sweater.

I think it would look great.

I'll be honest.

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888-825-5225 is the phone number. Alongside the lovely, talented, and my friend, Rachel Cruz,z i am just ken but i am knuff they tell me ken coleman your host today there's a little barbie reference did you catch that one i did i so appreciated it gotta pay attention just the pop culture yeah i try i try to embrace the pop culture as much as i can it's good being middle-aged uh all right let's get right to the phones, Virginia, my old stomping grounds, used to live there when I worked for the governor of Virginia, in case you were wondering.
Jake is there. Jake, how can we help today? Hey, guys.
Thanks for taking my call today. I appreciate it.
You bet. What's up? All right.
So me and my wife, we have a question about paying off our debt. So currently, my wife and were in our upper 20s and we're facing quite amount of student loan debt.

It's about $150,000.

Now we don't have any other debts and we've paid off a good amount so far.

We've paid off about $30,000 in total.

All right.

Nice.

But we recently came across an amount of money in our savings.

We have $30,000 saved up.

And what we really would like some guidance on is how much of that to apply to our loan. You know, we're in the stage of life where we kind of want to think about a family, possibly a home, some car issues coming up.
But we know that we have a good amount we want to apply to this debt to get it taken care of. So I'm going to get you guys guidance on what you think about, you know, putting that towards the debt.
Sure. How much do you guys make a year? So gross, we make together around $200,000.
Hey. Nice.
Very nice. So what's your plan as of now for the $150,000 to be paid off? How fast do you think you guys can do it? 18 months? Well, yeah, we were hoping within three years.
18 months would be ideal. yeah I mean if you guys can do it 18 months we well yeah we were hoping within three years 18 months would be ideal yeah i mean if you guys lived on 70 and then i'm thinking if you apply this 30 000 you could you could knock it out pretty quick so to answer yeah to answer your question you just swallowed really hard did you hear that he was like a what what um because yeah 200 is gross so you guys are probably coming in at what 130 after taxes probably right around there right around there um and if you lowered it to 120 and you guys you know lived off of 70 that would take you two years maybe if you did some extra work uh incomes go up in general yeah 18 to 18 to 24 months so yes to answer your question i would apply 29 000 of that 30 000 keep a thousand dollars for an emergency fund and i would go all hands on deck i would not be thinking about a house while you have this debt um if you guys decide to start a family which we encourage people that that, yeah, if getting married and starting a family, don't, don't not do those things because you have debt, right? So if you guys decide in six months, like we feel like, gosh, it's time to start a family, then if that's the case, I would pause everything, not pay extra on the student loans, just keep them current and be piling up, you know, a big savings.
Uh, and in nine months, you guys can put a lot in savings when you do that. And then when baby comes and everyone's good, just apply that nine months of savings back to the debt.
So that would be a time deposit. And then as car stuff starts coming up, and if you know a good amount ahead of time, then you'll be thinking about that.
But if you don't have to replace a car while you have debt, I wouldn't. I agree.
That's what I was going to ask though. I would drive those things all the way through.
What do you mean by car issues? Can you be more specific? Sure. Yeah, my car currently has, my wife's car is good.
My car currently has around 350,000 miles and it's kind of gone out on me a few times this year. So I feel know i'm really riding it to its last leg but you really are like that might come up soon you think 350 000 miles what brand of car is it yeah it's a toyota yeah it's been pretty good to me i will tell you those toyotas those toyotas we're a toyota family toyota lexus like in that thing in that in that family yeah i was just cars you'll ever yeah i'm not trying endorse it, but you hear that a lot.
Of course, our friend George would say Toyota. No, Toyota.
He doesn't know how to say it. And Honda's.
We'll give Honda's a shot, too. I would say, Rachel, I'm glad we brought this up because I think this car is literally a moment away from dying.
How much can you sell it for? What? What? I've been told not much. I've already tried.
$2,000? I've been told less than $1,000. $1,000? How much? Less than $1,000.
Yeah, you're out of your mind. $3,000.
Some people may want a great Toyota that has lasted. Jake from Richmond.
I'll bet you it looks like it's got 350,000 miles on it, too. Am right, Jake? Yeah.
So Jake, so what I would do, for real though, if you feel like it is on its last leg, which I get 350,000 miles, it probably is. Try to rip somebody off for $3,000.
But I would go get a $6,000 car. I would not go spend $20,000 on something.
Go get a beater again that maybe has 200,000 miles.

And for 18 months, two years, just drive that car.

And then after you guys are out of debt,

that's when you can think about stepping up with cash into something else.

But I would use as much of this money to put towards the principal of your student loans because that's going to help you guys so much.

I mean, it really will from a mathematical standpoint. So I'd rather drive a crappy car.
Oh, no, no. This is my favorite thing to do.
Ken is on his laptop, Jake, just so I can give you context. I really enjoy this.
He is on a car website. I got used cars for sale in Richmond, Virginia.
You in the greater Richmond area? Look at that $4,000 car. Yeah, right around there.
Now it's a Dodge. We got to get the guy a Toyota.
I'm not going to give him a Dodge Avenger. Okay.
But for crying out loud, okay. I mean, listen, some of these cars, I want to make the point that it's not a complete beater here.
Let me just, this is worth, okay, here we go. A 2014 Chevrolet Impala.
All right. 10 years old, $4,000.
$4,000. 142,000 miles.
It's a Chevrolet. Yeah, there you go.
It's not the greatest brand in the world, but they're not expensive to fix either. That's true.
It's America for you. And having Impala is a famous song, famous line.
I'll let the audience figure that one out. But I know you don't know it.
I'll share during the break. It's too much to try to explain to you.
It's an age thing. She just doesn't get it.
But anyway, that's the example there. And I really am having fun with this, but people don't realize what you can get for under $5,000.
Yes. And let's be honest, he's driving a turd.
It's a Toyota. It's done its job.
Yeah, it has. But it's going to die soon.
And so for $ so for four grand you get the chevy impala is it good looking i'm not gonna lie to you it's not different colors it's just a silver car you would never know yeah i'm saying the impala the 2014 impala is not a car that you buy for status sure but that's okay and that's why you do why we do it we get it from a to b so a to b that's all we're looking for yes for this time period so so yeah so i would put um as much as you can jake that you guys feel comfortable with um again with the car replacement and an emergency fund everything else needs to go to this and then you guys are in a perfect position too jake um to to go and earn some extra money on a side hustle before kids it is it is the time to do it it really is because you know and we talk to families all the time that get out of debt with kids right I mean that's that is a lot of our audience but it's hard like when you have a full day of work you pick up your kids and you have to go to another job and this you know and a spouse has to stay home and do bed I I mean, it just gets really complicated and it gets more and more tiring and more difficult. And so you guys are in a perfect season for six, eight months.
Go work extra, right? Bring some of that in. What do you got for us, Ken? James, I got a snappy looking 2012 Mazda 3 touring, only five grand, 130,000 miles.
And it's got a nice little blue color to it. You kind of feel good about yourself zipping into wherever it is you got to go.
So again, I make the point. And a quick commercial break.
I'm going to teach Rachel about this famous song lyric that involved Impala. And we'll be back.
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Welcome back, America.

You have joined the conversation here on The Ramsey Show. Alongside Rachel Cruz.
I'm Ken Coleman. Excited to have you with us today, taking your money calls, your income, profession-related calls, because that goes together.
Let's get right back to the phones. Madison, Wisconsin is where Tyler joins us.
Tyler, how can we help today? Hey, Ken and Rachel. Thanks so much for taking my call.
You bet. Yeah, so my wife and I are about $42,000 in debt.
And after watching Rachel's message at Fresh Life, it really kind of motivated us to really go hard at the debt. And so, yeah, we're very thankful for that because that shifted our mindset a lot.
And so one thing we're going to do, and we were kind of going down this path anyway, but we're selling our house that we're in right now. And initially our plan was actually to sell our house, buy a new house in a different area.
And now we decided we're actually going to sell a house, move into an apartment because we're going to net around $200,000-ish with the sale of our house. Oh, wow.
Okay. And yeah, and so basically, we're trying to figure out the best way to handle that, because I think the obvious route is to take that, throw everything at the debt that we have about $42,000.
So take $42,000, throw it at the debt. That would leave us with about 160,000 left.
And ultimately we do want to buy another house in one to three years. But I just don't know the best way to handle how we handle that money as far as do we put the rest aside for down payment? Tyler, can I ask why are you guys selling? To move to a different area? Yeah, we moved.
We got kind of lucky as far as like timing for this house and we bought it in 2020. And yeah, we just, we moved here for my wife's job.
And honestly, we hate the area. And my wife's job, she's not working at that job anymore, so the location isn't relevant for us.
I work from home, so really location doesn't matter, and so we're just kind of hoping to move to an area that we like a little bit better. Okay, how far? I'm just curious from where you guys currently are to where you want to be.
Is it like a 30-minute difference, or is it like like a 10 minute? It's about two hours.

Oh,

like a totally different area.

Okay.

I'm sorry.

I got you.

Yeah.

Okay.

That's great.

Yep.

So,

so yeah,

Tyler,

I would for sure.

Yep.

When you guys get that 200,000,

I would yes.

Apply it to the 42.

Go ahead and pay off your debt that day.

I would set some money aside at this point for you guys. do you have, do y'all have any kids? Yeah.
Yep. We do have a nine month old baby.
Okay. Okay.
And you guys, do you guys both have pretty stable jobs? So my wife is a stay at home mom and I am self-employed. So it's pretty, my income is pretty variable.
Okay. So for So because of that, because of the kid element, and it's on one income, and it's a variable income,

I would probably just put aside six months of an emergency fund.

Absolutely.

We always say three to six months, but three would be, you know, if you're single or if you don't have any kids

and you both have pretty stable incomes, you could do more of the three.

Yeah.

But because it's a little bit, just to give you guys some extra safety.

So I would figure out your monthly expenses, multiply it by six and out of that one 50, put that aside. And I would just open up a high yield savings account.
This is my, my husband and I did and label it emergency fund and you don't touch it. And then I would leave the rest, which would be what, how much do you think an emergency, a six month emergency fund would be for you guys yeah so we actually good news is we actually already have that taken care of um but it's about 30,000 so yeah we actually have that already apart from the 200,000 oh wow okay that's fantastic okay so so yeah so the 160 that's left then I would just keep it in a high yield savings honestly Tyler I probably I would not invest it because you guys are going to use it for a down payment in the next you know two to three years at the latest probably um so yeah i would if it's not more than five years if it was more than five years i would invest but you guys are in a position and you may even pull the trigger faster you know if you see a great house because the sooner you get in the market honestly the better it's going to be and you guys will have have a great down payment.
So I would just put it in a high yield savings and just let it be there. That's really helpful.
So this might be a dumb question, but I was kind of doing research into that. Like what classifies something as a high yield savings? Like we have our savings account right now.
I don't know if it's classified as that or not. Yeah, it'll be pretty apparent.
It'll say high yield. So high yield savings, a money market account, it will say it.
And this is not a plug. It's just what we use.
We use Ally Bank. Usually an online bank is going to be better for high yield savings.
You're going to probably get a little bit of a better rate of return versus a brick and mortar standard bank. So we have our checking with a local bank that has brick and mortar.
And then we have an online high yield savings.

We just have it through Ally.

I know there's a couple of companies that are out there,

but you can even just Google.

And I don't know, there's a lot out there.

Just make sure that there's no,

because some banks, if they're online,

will charge you like weird fees.

And like, so kind of look into the fine print

and just get a great option.

But something like Ally is totally fine.

Yeah, appreciate the call and good job.

Thank you. online, you know, we'll charge you like weird fees and like, so kind of look into the fine print and just, you know, get a great option.
But something like Ally is totally fine.

Yeah.

Appreciate the call and good job.

Good job, young man.

I mean, taking great care of your family.

Love that you got all that cash and now you're going to be debt free pretty soon.

So don't talk yourself out of that.

Don't let anybody talk yourself out of that.

Rachel sets you up really well.

So really, really happy for you as you kind of start a new chapter.

Really fun. Let's go to Columbia, South Carolina.
And Kevin is joining us there. Kevin, how can we help today? Yeah, hey, thank you guys for taking my call.
My question is, have I pulled a large sum of money out of my retirement investments to build a home? I'll give you a little back story My wife and I are both over 59 and a half

She's retired

CrossFit to build a home. I'll give you a little back story.
My wife and I are both over 59 and a half. She's retired, draws a pension of about $42,000 a year.
I make about $142,000 of my salary. And we have got about $1.85 million in investments, some pre-tax, Roth, and then some non-retirement investment accounts.
And in that $1.85, there's roughly $200,000 in cash. What I'm hoping to do is to try to pull some money out of my retirement investments to fund the house, but not cripple myself in retirement.
How much money are you thinking about pulling out?

I mean about $750 for the purchase for the construction of the home.

So part of that would be funded by the $200,000 in cash. We're still leaving us a fully funded emergency fund.
And then the balance we would pull out of them, most of it as we could out of the

Roth. And then the balance would have to come out of the pre-tax accounts.
What is your current

situation as far as a home? Do you own your current home? We own our current home. We have no debt.
We want to tear the house down on the property that we're on because it's the value is in the land, not in the dwelling. And we're going to build our dream home.
Oh, on your current home. That's correct.
Yeah. So we're going to just tear down what we currently reside in, move out, and then build a home here on this point.
What's the total cost of that going to be? You said $750 plus plus, or is it $750? Yeah. It'll be $750 is what the contract price will be.
It'll figure out probably 10% for contingency money. So, you know, somewhere $825 to $8 $850,000 we're thinking.
Okay. And have you guys run out numbers? Because that's going to leave you, you know, 1.2 left in retirement.
And have you guys run numbers on that or how long you're going to be working, just making sure that you guys are in a good spot long term? Yeah, we feel pretty good about that. We figure we'll have somewhere between $850,000 to $900,000 left in retirement investments.
And then, you know, given the rate of return, banking at 10%, hopefully for averaging. We feel like we'd be very comfortable.
We hadn't anticipated pulling any kind of money towards, or pulling Social Security money until we get full retirement age or even 70 if it permits. So we feel pretty comfortablefortable we don't say we don't have any Any other debt Makes me nervous tapping into retirement Yeah for sure and you know what Kevin I would sit down with a SmartVestor Pro Because I would want to make sure That what you're pulling out principle Wise which avenue Is better through like the Roths Or a 401k you know if that's a better play or just any standard mutual funds you guys have, because some of these gains on, you know, the pre-tax investments, you're going to pay capital gains on some of that too.
And so there is a little bit of a strategic play that in the next, you know, 30 seconds, I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to answer that. So, so yeah, I mean, I think from a number standpoint, you're not being irresponsible at all.
But that next step is, yeah, how, how and which investments to take out of. And I would talk to your financial planner to make sure you're doing that from a tax perspective, the wisest way.
Great. But because you still got earning potential,, still got a really nice nest egg that will continue to grow.
And this is a part of your retirement strategy. So for using the funds that way for a paid off house, I don't think there's anything scary here, but make sure you do your homework.
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That's betterhelp.com slash Deloney. I talk to people every day who want to know how to do better in two areas, money and relationships.

That's why I'm pumped to bring the Money and Relationships Tour to a city near you.

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Starting April 21st, we'll be in Louisville, then on to Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth, and Kansas City.

Grab your tickets at RamseySolutions.com slash tour before they're gone. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show.
I'm Ken Coleman, and Rachel Cruz is alongside. Thrilled to have you with us.
Glad you're with us wherever you are, however you are watching. Let's get right back to the phones.

888-825-5225 is the number.

Brandy is joining us now in Pendleton, Oregon.

Brandy, how can we help today?

Hi, thank you for taking my call.

You bet. What's going on?

I am a single mom with several disabilities,

and I'm trying to figure out how to make extra income to cover my four walls. I love what I do for work.
What do you do? Divorce. I work in development for a ministry.
Okay, and what kind of income do you make there? My take-home with child support and my income combined is about $2,800 net a month. $2,800 net, okay.
And, Brandy, realy, can you try to adjust your phone a little bit? I feel like it's a little muffled. Let's see if we can hear you a little bit better if you take a look at that.
Yeah, can you hear me better? That's so much better. Thank you.
Okay. And so we know what your take home is, how much additional income would be ideal.
And I'm not talking some crazy dream number, but just this would give me some real breathing room to take care of the four walls. And let us know what that looks like.
$2,500 a month to live comfortably. In addition to what you're making? Yes.
Okay. So we want to go from $28 to $5,300.

Okay, that's great.

I love that you have that target.

Is that an issue because of debt?

Debt and disabilities

and just the parenting plan schedule that I have.

So I'm divorced, disabled.

I've got two kids that are three and five years old. So one is in school and one is in preschool slash daycare.
I've sold all my assets in the divorce. I got the house in the divorce and my ex-husband got everything else.
But I have to pay him $20,000 additionally for his portion of equity. Okay.
All right. So let me ask this before we dive into the numbers, and Rachel's going to help me here as we get you out of this debt and all this.
And I don't want to share anything you don't feel comfortable with, but what can you do, in other words, physically with your disabilities? Just tell me what you can do physically instead of going through what you can't do. What are you able to do? I've been trying to do some side hustles.
I do door dashing and photography and marketing services on the side, but I'm just not seeing enough income consistently to rely on that. Have you looked at freelance work because it's everywhere?

Yeah. And programming, because that's your greatest skill is the programming.
If you were doing what you were doing for a for-profit business, not a ministry, my guess is you might be making 20 to 30 percent more. Is that outrageous what I'm saying? Yeah.
I agree.

Listen, I would be putting all my attention right now into freelance opportunities with your programming skills because that's going to pay you top notch for your time. Of all the things that you could do, and when we look at exchanging time for money, that's going to be your highest rate.
You agree with that, correct? Correct.

That's what I would be doing. Because when I look at that number of increasing your income by an additional $2,500 a month, that's what I would be doing.
Now, I want to bring Rachel in. How much debt do you have? Yeah.
How much debt do you have, Brandy? $64,000. $64,000.
What is that? Will you break that out for me? That is $12,500 to my ex-husband, which he's willing to wait until I sell the house. It's not an area where we live anyways, and I need to come up with some money to pay off all this debt.
Okay, pause. Pause real quick.
Hold on. Brandy, hold on one second.
I want to make sure Rachel gets this that I get this. The home that you're going to sell, it's not the home you're living in, and it's in a different area.
Is that correct? Yeah, I have a renter in there right now. That's part of my income.
What do you stand to make? If you sold that today, what do you think you can make on that? Walking away. I paid it off except for a construction loan, so approximately $110,000.
Amazing. Is it on the market right now? I'm in the works of listing it right now.
I'm just waiting for the realtor to put it on the market, but I updated the listing for her. And you owe your ex $12,500 out of the proceeds of that $110,000? Yes.
I owed him $20,000, but I've paid it down to $12,500. I'm supposed to give him $5,000 every six months per court order, but he agreed to give me more time and just pay him a lump sum once the house fell.
And where are you living right now, Brandy? Are you renting? I'm living, I'm renting. I'm living in an area where my ex-husband lives and works so we can co-parent and it's also close to both our jobs okay that's great so you'll have 98 000 after the sale of this house and an average you know median days on the market right now is around 70 days or so so hopefully in the next three to four months your house will sell um so it is this is short term in a sense but that 98 000 um from there i would direct you out because all your debt will be paid off at that point um yeah i'd like to get to baby step four i think i'd be able to do that with the sale of this home i think it's just the short term that i'm trying to figure out so that's what I was going to, okay, that's great.
Because Ken is right for the short term, for the next, I mean, make it a goal for the next six months to bring in an extra two grand a month. And you can because of the programming skills.
You know, at the beginning of this call, Brandy, just where my mind was going, I almost was going to encourage you, even though you love your job, a lot of us love things, but we just don't make enough money to cover it. I was going to encourage you to maybe work somewhere else for two to three, four years just to get some really good financial gain under you.
I had the same thought. And then you can always go back to the nonprofit down the road.
But there is something to be said that, you know, because what you're giving up when you're doing those side hustles is more hours of your time where you could be making that same amount in a shorter amount of time. Right.
And so, so I, I mean, I don't know. I know you love your job and I'm sure it's an incredible nonprofit and, and they do incredible work and people that work in nonprofits, you know, there's such great work there.
But when you are single mom with a list of disabilities there's only so much you can do uh i i mean you need to financially get in a spot where you're taken care of and you have money saved in the bank you're working for a down payment on a home i mean there's some stuff there that's that's real um that i i mean it's some it's something to consider i don't want to push you into it, but I would consider it. I would definitely consider that.
My only issue with switching jobs currently is, other than what I love what I do, my ex-husband works for a prison and his schedule changes every six months, and I've had to be kind of the one on the back burner to make my job flexible for his job. I get that.
They're not very flexible. Well, that's why, again.
The schedule changes every six months, and the parenting plan pretty much changes every six months. Yeah.
I'm so sorry. But I tell you what, this is great news.
Brandy, I'm sorry that you're a single mama. I'm sorry you're going through all this.
I'm sorry that you're dealing with these disabilities, but I wanted to encourage you. I'm so impressed.
You're tough as nails. I am so impressed.
And I'm also happy for you. You're going to get out of this debt here pretty soon.
I really believe that I want you to, if you try and keep trying and keep trying to sell your programming skills, I think we can get to that money goal of increased income a lot faster than you. Here's my point.
You can do that at home and you know what I mean? And be around the babies and not out in a car driving around and you're already struggling with some physical stuff. Bless your heart.
I just really would like you to try that. There's so much skill set and experience that you have to offer to the world.
I would go that route, and I mean aggressive. And so, I mean, I would talk to anybody and everybody on social media, in your network, at the church, wherever you're frequenting with the kids.
Hey, I'm a programmer, I'm a single mama, and I'm looking to do some contract work.

That is okay.

There's no shame in that statement.

And I think people will say, hey, I need some programming work.

They may not be able to afford you as a full-time employee, but pay you an hourly rate.

Or know somebody who knows somebody that needs it.

So I would really encourage you to do that, Brandy.

And we're rooting for you.

Follow the baby steps.

So excited to hear you say, pretty soon, I'm in baby step four. And what a legacy that is.
Rachel, it breaks my heart for the single mamas. I mean, they are the toughest.
Toughest people on the planet. Oh my gosh.
I don't know how they do it. You guys are amazing.
Well done, Brandy. We're cheering for you, Brandy.
This is the Ramsey Show. We'll be right back.
Listen, guys, I've heard just about every excuse for why folks think they can't get ahead with money. So let's go ahead and settle this right now.
The truth is you get to decide what happens with your money. And if you want to start winning with money, you have to get on a budget.
The EveryDollar Budget app makes it easy for you to plan every dollar you've got coming in and every dollar going out. Plus, it's free.
So no more excuses. Go download EveryDollar in the App Store or Google Play today.
All right, America, we're back after a quick break. This is The Ramsey Show.
I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz is with me, and we're excited to have you with us.
The phone number is 888-825-5225. And the real estate market, Rachel, I know your hubs is in real estate, you know, Dave's in real estate, and you started thinking about where we're going in 2025.
New year, what's going to happen? What's the Fed going to do?

How does that affect this? All the things. And, you know, it can be really crazy.
If you look at the 15-year fixed mortgage rate, for example, it's fluctuated between 5% and 7% for the past few years. And most experts are predicting this is going to continue for most of 2025.
I'm seeing that as well. People kind of think, well, we're going to kind of be in a holding pattern.
And so while today's rates might feel high compared to what some of us have seen in our lifetime, I've seen much higher, and obviously we've seen much lower. But historically, 7.5% is a historical average.
So we don't want you to be sitting there trying to time the market. If you're financially ready and you can afford the monthly payments,

now is a great time to buy your home.

And so to learn more about the trends and get real help as we walk you through what to do as you're thinking about buying or selling,

go to RamseySolutions.com slash market.

That's RamseySolutions.com slash market.

Yeah, I think the two biggest myths that I feel like over the past couple years

I'm going to go from six to two in six months. It's just not.
So if you're ready, you can always refinance if it does drop that drastically, but it's probably not. And the other thing is house prices are not going to take a nosedive.
That was a big thing for a while. People thought like 2021, 2022, like, oh, it's a bubble.
Everything's going to pop. Certain markets will.
Have you seen Austin, Texas? Well, Austin is an anomaly. That is true.
Yes. But I can hear people right now.
I want to make sure we address their concern. But they are correcting.
It's a correction. There's a correction, but it's not going to drop.
That's right. It's not going to go down.
You know, a million dollar house isn't going to go to, you know, half a million. Idea.
Like, they're pretty stabilizing for the most part um it's softening to a degree but again it's not these it's not crazy it's not this bubble that's going to pop and you're going to get all these foreclosures like we saw in you know 2007 2008 so i'm going to predict a trump bump trump bump in the first couple of years might we might see us a kind of an interesting chilled out little easy roller coaster this year little down. But I think it's going to be very interesting to see in year two and three of his administration.
Yeah. What will consumer confidence look like? I don't have a crystal ball, but I just have a feeling.
Yes. Well, so much of this is perceived confidence, right? When people feel just good in general and they feel good about where the economy specifically is heading with regulation, what happens with tariffs? Yeah.
You know, what happens when you start to see more supply come on the market? Will builders, you know, will there be more lower income? And I don't mean that, I'm sorry, not lower income housing, but will we see housing starts come in at a much more affordable rate? Yes, because of of these things are affected by sometimes macro policies that do, in fact, come out of the White House. So it's going to be interesting to see.
Yeah, that's good. Great point.
So hang on. But the point is, if you're ready, jump in now and we're here to walk you through it.
Kevin is up in Riverside, California. Kevin, how can we help? Hello.
Hey, Kevin, you're live on the Ramsey Show with Ken and Rachel. What's going on? Thank you for taking my call.
You bet. What's up? So, uh, I'm in $650,000 in debt and that includes mortgage, personal loans, auto loans.
Can you break that down for us real quick? How much is the mortgage debt? The mortgage, I owe about $477,000. Okay.
And now break down the rest of the debt for us. Cars is about $62,000.
For two cars? For two cars.

Okay.

Keep going.

Credit cards.

Just me.

I haven't done... My wife hasn't taken hers,

her broker's down yet.

But my cards are about...

Oh, geez.

I would say $25,000.

Okay.

Personal loans?

Personal loans, small business, I would say $25,000.

Okay.

And then the rest in small loans like a firm and stuff like that. Yeah, which would equal what? I haven't broken that down yet, but it's pretty much the rest of my debt.
And so how much debt, so that makes up the whole $6.55 if I'm doing quick math. Am I right? Yeah, I guess so.
How much does your... I'm sorry.
I'm trying to move us along, Kevin. How much debt does your wife have? I'm guessing about $25,000.
Okay. And the way you're talking about this...
Mostly credit cards? Credit cards and personal. Okay.
And you guys have separate finances, it sounds like. We don't.
We actually make these decisions together, which is... Okay.
You threw me off when you said her debt. Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But you guys have like, yeah, it's different. Either way.
Yeah. Separate accounts.
So we got $6.55 plus her $25. I'm trying to give Rachel the full picture.
Okay, how much do you guys make a year, Kevin? We make $130. Kevin, what the crap have y'all been doing? I know.
Oh, man. I'm sick of it.
Just living. Just living.
Wow. Yeah, too much.
And normal. And let me say that, Kevin.
I mean, this literally is America. I'm like, this is normal.
You're racking up, you know, credit card debts, two brand new cars. I mean, this is, this is, uh, this is it.
Okay. So what's gotten you to the point you said, I'm sick of it.
What has, what's kind of, what's kind of brought, what's brought it to a head that even caused you to call today? Uh, we had a little girl seven months ago. Oh, wow.
That'll do it. That'll do it.

And how is your wife feeling right now?

She's stressed to the moon and back.

Yep.

Yep.

Where are you at emotionally?

Where are you at?

I have a hard time connecting emotions to it.

That's probably why I'm in this mess.

Okay.

So what's the real need?

We know what the problem is.

What was that? I have a hard time connecting emotions to it, and that's probably why I'm in this mess. Okay, so what's the real need? We know what the problem is.
What can we help you with today? Well, me and my wife work for my family business, and we work 40 hours a week. Well, I do.
She stays at home with our little girl most of the time. But I want to work more, but I feel like I'm a little selfish for wanting to work a lot more than 40 hours.
Okay, Kevin. And not being home.
All right, I'm jumping in because we got about two minutes with you or less. You're not being selfish.
In fact, I would say you're being selfish if you're not working 80 hours a week. And is your wife collecting a salary? You said we both work for the family business.
Is she getting paid to be at home? We collect salaries. She works from home on her computer.
So great. So you need to be working like crazy.
You're not selfish. How much is your mortgage payment a month? $3,700.
Okay. I mean, that's getting up to what? 40% of your take-home pay? Yeah.
Yeah. Okay.
So here's what I do, Kevin. So this is gonna be real quick.
This is gonna be very painful to implement. It's much easier for me to sell you all this.
I would, I would put the house in the market. I would sell it.
This is way, way out of bounds. You have too much house.
It's taking 40%. And then think about all these other payments.
You guys are barely able to eat. I'm like, this is taking up so much.
So if I were you guys, I would sell the house. I would sell the cars.
I would be working 80 hours a week and I would clean this up. That's what I would do.
I mean, I would, would you get any equity from the home if you guys sold? There's about 30,000 in the house, which I feel like is all fees for putting it on the market anyways. Well, but again, if you can get out, even if it's a break even, she's right.
You saved yourself $3,700 a month, which you need. Because your income, the ratio of what you guys need to pay for rent and mortgage needs to be about half of where you're at because you're house poor.
I'm like, you guys, you know, so I would cut up the credit cards tonight. You have to have, keep this feeling of I'm done.
I'm done. I'm done.
I'm done. And you have to get dead out of your life.
You have to stop. And I would be selling everything in sight, including those cars.
And get your head above water. You guys have, you know, a three to four year journey here, but you can do this.
Hold on the line. Taylor's

going to pick up and we're going to give you guys Financial Peace University, which is our

nine lesson course. And you guys watch this together and just implement these steps.
It's

going to be hard, but worth it. This is the Ramsey Show.
Thank you.