Be Prepared: Math Doesn’t Care About Your Life Situations

Speaker 1 From the Ramsey Network, it's the Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw.
Next to me, my good buddy, Dr. John Deloney.

Speaker 2 What up?

Speaker 1 We're taking your calls all hour long. Your life, your money, your relationships, your career, all of it.
We'll talk about it. The call is a free call.

Speaker 1 8-825-5225 is what gets you on. Remember, this is a live show and we want to hear from you.
All right, John, let's go straight to the phone lines. We got Nicholas, Boston, Massachusetts.

Speaker 1 What's going on, Nick?

Speaker 3 How are you?

Speaker 2 Doing good. How can we help?

Speaker 3 So yeah, I just wanted to, you know, first I appreciate you guys, you know, putting me on, but I wanted to just kind of, you know, put my situation out there.

Speaker 3 In 2020, I'm a small business owner. In 2020, we had a great year.

Speaker 3 We're a fence installation company. We were doing really, really great around the time, 2020 into 2021.
At that time, my wife had an affair.

Speaker 3 I was working probably 50 to 60 hours a week just because I had to keep up with the demand for the business at the time.

Speaker 3 After that, that hit me mentally. And going into a divorce process, it killed me financially.
And I've just not been able to recover. It's just been a tough few years.

Speaker 3 The business, since that, peak, it was kind of like almost like a peak in 2020 into 2021 with the work. The business slowed down after.

Speaker 3 I don't know if it's partially due to the economy or just my state in general of pushing forward, lack of funds for the business and so on. But just been a struggle since that time.

Speaker 2 Man. Sorry, brother.

Speaker 3 Oh, it's all right. And, you know, with,

Speaker 4 you know,

Speaker 3 pre-divorce, around 2020, I had six figures in the bank. I only had my mortgage, which is $1,400, which in Massachusetts is, you can't even rent for $1,400.
It's just nothing.

Speaker 3 The mortgage is nothing. At the time, it was $1,250,000.
But during the divorce, I had a refinance, so it went up to almost $1,500.

Speaker 3 But I mean, I just, all my money got drained. She spent $72,000 in 2020, the year of the divorce.
She just kind of drained the accounts and left me with that. And then the tax liability,

Speaker 3 I'm in huge tax troubles I owe six figures to the to the government and then thirty thousand you know thirty thousand to the state and I'm just kind of I'm just kind of lost

Speaker 2 let me

Speaker 2 you and me and Jade could talk for a long long time and Jade can walk you through the numbers part because there's a there's a mathematical path out of this yeah yeah but in the in the first two minutes we've talked you've mentioned 2020

Speaker 2 I've lost count yeah yeah and what that tells me is you're living in the past past.

Speaker 4 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 And you've got one, if not both, feet still in 2020, 2021, even 2022. And some of that's hurt.
Some of that is you probably got a lot of

Speaker 2 esteem

Speaker 2 out of making that kind of money and having that kind of false security in a bank account that you, somehow that translated into what you were worth. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 Not just financially, but emotionally, spiritually, relationally.

Speaker 2 And it's 2025.

Speaker 2 And so

Speaker 2 you won't get one step of healing moving forward until you decide to not mention your ex-wife again. She's gone, man.

Speaker 2 Until you stop blaming her for your current tax liabilities.

Speaker 2 Until you say, okay, here's, I'm going to stand up in 2025. I'm clearly good at what I do.
I've been successful in the past. I will be successful again in the future.

Speaker 2 And I've got a mess I got to clean up. Yeah.

Speaker 2 You get what I'm saying?

Speaker 3 No, definitely, definitely. And there's a whole nother part of this, which is like I'm trying to push through.

Speaker 3 I got two young children, you know, five and six years old. And I'm with them 60% of the time,

Speaker 3 paying the $400 a week in support. It's just kind of, it is what it is.
I don't have an issue with the support. I don't have an issue with the support or nothing like that.

Speaker 3 I feel like I'm pushing myself further into debt because I'm trying to give them everything they need. So

Speaker 3 my personal credit cards, along with the business, I mean, everything's just, you know, it's not.

Speaker 2 Hold on, you're not trying to give them everything they need. You're trying to give them everything so that you don't feel so bad.

Speaker 4 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 Because what they really want is their old man. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And going out this weekend in Boston and throwing snow at each other and digging a hole and playing in the mud costs $0, and they'll tell that story at your funeral. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 So again, don't blame them for your debt problems.

Speaker 2 It sucks. It is what it is.
You got taken to the cleaners in court. You did.
And now it's 2025.

Speaker 2 So, my question to you is: like, direct, and this is just me just talking to a man that I love, okay?

Speaker 2 Is 2025 going to be the year that you say, enough, I'm going to look in the mirror and I'm going to take ownership of the stuff and get it knocked out?

Speaker 4 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 Is this the year? Because if not, then we can take another call.

Speaker 1 Yeah, because can I ask

Speaker 1 a fair question? I think it's fair. Did you get taken to the cleaners or was it just divided 50-50 and it just got switched?

Speaker 3 No, no, no, I got destroyed. How? I got why.

Speaker 2 How and why?

Speaker 3 My lawyer,

Speaker 3 the representation during it, there was just a lot of things that just did not go my way. And I was not in a mental state.

Speaker 3 So at some point, after them just coming at me and coming at me with demands and demands, I just wanted it done with. So I said, all right, that's it.
You know, I agree on this and let's move forward.

Speaker 1 So tell me, tell me, I'm going to be honest with you flat out. I think

Speaker 1 this call is more about what's happening inside of you than what's happening happening with your money. Just from the way you sound, you sound like you are just a chicken with its head cut off.

Speaker 1 And like John said, we can talk for a long time. If you want to give me some real numbers and

Speaker 1 we can walk through this financially, tell me now. Tell me now what you're earning.
And is it from your business or did you get a new job?

Speaker 3 No,

Speaker 3 I'm still running, still running the business. Okay.
Do you want to hear my personals? Or do you want to hear yourself?

Speaker 1 I just want to know your payment. Like, what do you pay yourself every month? What do you bring home every every month?

Speaker 3 Yeah, so I mean, weekly, my weekly check is like $1,200 a week.

Speaker 2 And that's like clockwork.

Speaker 3 Yep, yep, but then you got to, you know, right now is our slow season, so there's going to be a couple weeks where I'm not taking a check. And then you're subtracting, you know, $387 and support.

Speaker 1 No, I just want to know your money. I want to know what does Nick bring home? Does he bring home $4,800 a month? Is that right?

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah, $1,198 a week.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 And then tell me your total debt.

Speaker 3 Personal or would the business include?

Speaker 1 It's all the same, but tell me personal first, just for the purposes of this call.

Speaker 3 Yep, so I got the vehicle, the vehicle, the home,

Speaker 3 and

Speaker 3 about $8,000 in credit card debt.

Speaker 1 Okay, so credit cards are $8,000. How much on the car?

Speaker 3 $20,000 owed.

Speaker 1 Okay. And the house?

Speaker 3 $200,000.

Speaker 1 And And you told me you're paying $1,500 a month now? Is that right? Yeah,

Speaker 3 it's a little under that. It's like $1,400 and change.

Speaker 1 Okay, fine.

Speaker 1 So the car, what's the car worth? It's $20,000. What's it worth?

Speaker 3 It's worth, yeah, last time I checked, it was worth $1,400.

Speaker 1 Okay. Now, with your line of work, is it I do more, I can do more work and make more money? Is it just as simple as that? What's stopping you from doing more?

Speaker 3 Yeah, so well,

Speaker 3 the work's always been there. I never paid for advertising with the work.
We've always been very busy. Last year was very slow.

Speaker 3 I put 14,000 over the year into a marketing agency and just it was a well-known low.

Speaker 2 Well, here's the thing.

Speaker 1 Let me give you the quick equation. The way that you get out of debt quickly is you increase your income and decrease your expenses.

Speaker 1 That is the simple solution to getting more money to throw it at your debt. And that's all it is.
Listen, you've got two debts. You owe $28,000.

Speaker 1 I know that you lost a lot of money in this process, but the truth is right now, your debt isn't all that scary.

Speaker 1 If you called in here telling me you had $500,000, and maybe with the businesses, it is that much, but let's focus on that, quote, personal debt first. Use the debt snowball and pay it off.

Speaker 1 And then you can call in again and let's talk about this business and if it's worth keeping. This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 You're listening to The Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw.
Dr. John Deloney sits beside me today.

Speaker 1 Hey, if you're ready to get your finances in order once and for all in 2025, I've got just the thing for you. Hey, we're doing this free live stream.
It's January 23rd.

Speaker 1 It's take control of your money.

Speaker 1 So if you're a person who's been living paycheck to paycheck, if you're a person who's constantly overdrawn, if you're a person who feels like they just can't seem to get ahead no matter what, right?

Speaker 1 Two steps forward, one step backwards, this is for you. It's going to be myself and Dave Ramsey.
We're going to take the stage. I'm going to show you how to stop living paycheck to paycheck.

Speaker 1 I'm going to show you how to make your budget in real time, right? So you have more breathing room, so you can pay off debt fast. And finally, really just get ahead with your money.

Speaker 1 That's what all of us want, right? Later on in the evening, Rachel Cruz and George Camill are also going to join us. We're going to do a Q ⁇ A.
This is about everything, not just your budget.

Speaker 1 We'll answer questions about real estate. We'll answer questions about investing.
This is your time, okay?

Speaker 1 If you ever had questions, if you were ever trying to wonder how to get unstuck, this is for you, okay?

Speaker 1 So not only that, but we're also giving away money because nothing helps more than just to have a little extra cash in your pocket.

Speaker 1 So when you sign up, you're going to be entered to win one of our cash giveaways and we're going to be giving away $4,000 to five different people. I don't know

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Speaker 1 I'll take it too. So if you want to get involved, sign up for the free live stream.
You can do that by going to ramseysolutions.com slash live stream.

Speaker 1 You can click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. I want to see you there.
I don't want to hear any more excuses. You need to be on this live stream.

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Okay. I'll see you there.

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Speaker 1 Get that money. I'll see you there.
Remember at 7 p.m. Central Time.
So do the math and you figure out the time zones. All right.
Roger is in Kansas City, Missouri. What's up, Roger?

Speaker 2 Hey, can you hear me?

Speaker 1 I can. What's up?

Speaker 4 Thank you for taking my call. I just,

Speaker 4 so last year,

Speaker 4 our son had some really bad asthma, and then

Speaker 4 he underwent a procedure that ended him in the ICU for three weeks. He was in the ventilator, and

Speaker 4 he wasn't breathing on his own. He was heavily medicated.

Speaker 2 How's he doing now?

Speaker 4 And he's doing a lot better now.

Speaker 2 Thank God.

Speaker 4 He's a lot better, yeah.

Speaker 4 And during that three weeks, almost a month, you know,

Speaker 4 I wasn't working, and we had some credit cards, so we kind of just started putting everything on those credit cards, and we kind of accumulated quite a bit of debt because of that situation that we had going on.

Speaker 4 How much?

Speaker 3 We did,

Speaker 4 it's about like $11,000 plus some student loans that I recently got because I recently went back to school.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 How much was the student loans and how much was the medical debt?

Speaker 4 The medical, the medical debt was actually

Speaker 4 covered by insurance.

Speaker 2 Okay. I was going to say, there's no way you got it for $12,000 for a month in ICU.

Speaker 1 I mean, were you on the hook for the deductible?

Speaker 4 No, I think his insurance actually covered everything.

Speaker 2 Everything.

Speaker 4 Except that the personal, like

Speaker 4 our bills and our food. We had other two other daughters that

Speaker 4 we didn't see for those three weeks.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 So the debt you racked up was just, we've got a son in the hospital. We need child care.
We need food. We need somebody to help clean that, like that kind of stuff.
It wasn't the actual medical bills.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay, so you said about 11K.

Speaker 4 Yeah, about $11,012,000. And

Speaker 4 I just can't seem to get out of it. Like, it just keeps seeing that minimum payments and minimum payments.

Speaker 4 I'm just trying to see what we can do to make sure that gets out the way or we just get it out the way quicker.

Speaker 1 Can I ask a question? And I'm just, I'm not trying to take you to task. I'm just trying to understand.

Speaker 1 Did you say it was three weeks in the hospital? Yes.

Speaker 2 Three weeks that he was asleep.

Speaker 1 Okay, that he was asleep got you and 11 000 in just meals and child care well credit card there like yeah like bills and stuff like that we still had to cover our bills so we just ended up just putting it on credit cards okay so okay got it and is that what you would typically spend in a in a in a month three thousand eleven thousand or how far off your normal budget is that

Speaker 1 um

Speaker 4 it's it's a little extra because it was already there was already some balance on those cards okay we We kind of just did it over the the edge, yeah.

Speaker 1 Got it. And you said there's some student loans too.
How much is that?

Speaker 4 Those are new. Those are like, I'd say like

Speaker 4 30.

Speaker 2 Okay. 30,000.

Speaker 1 And you're continuing to take those out or have you said no more?

Speaker 4 No, well, it's it was on everything's already paid. It was like a course.
It was already paid for, so I don't owe anything above that.

Speaker 1 Okay. So we've got the so $41,000 in debt.
And can you tell me a little bit more about you guys' income?

Speaker 4 Yeah, I'm the, I'm the only one that works. My wife stays at home with the kids.
I bring in about like 57. That's what I brought in last year.

Speaker 1 Okay. Can you tell me what that sounds like every month? Like, what's your paycheck every single month or total every month?

Speaker 2 About

Speaker 4 like 4,000.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 So.

Speaker 1 What sounds like here is you guys had a crisis. You had something really scary happen.

Speaker 1 And it's, I don't know, John, I want to say it's kind of normal that sometimes we go into that mode where it's like, whatever, you have, it's almost like you have bigger fish to fry.

Speaker 1 So you're not thinking about every time you swipe the card, right? You're just trying to be there. Who cares? Yeah, order the food.
Who cares? You know, get the, get the sitter, right?

Speaker 1 And so it sounds like you went overboard a little bit, but I have, I have, I'm thinking that most of that debt was already there based on what you were saying the money was for.

Speaker 1 And then you turn around and you did 30,000 in student loans. So did the 30,000 in student loans, how does that that ROI for you, what did it do for you? Because you said you took a course.

Speaker 4 Yeah,

Speaker 4 that's recent. It's just, it's just on, it's on us now.
It's just, it was, I've only been in school for like four months.

Speaker 1 Right, right, right.

Speaker 2 But I'm saying, recently.

Speaker 1 I'm saying, is that to get you, what was the purpose of that? Is it to get your income up? Tell me more about where that's going to lead you to. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 4 It was to get a course to start working in, it's for IT cybersecurity career.

Speaker 1 Okay. And when do you start that?

Speaker 4 Hopefully that'll

Speaker 4 in April.

Speaker 2 Okay. And what will you be making when you get to that?

Speaker 4 They said anywhere between like 60 to like 80 starting.

Speaker 2 Nice. And then it just goes off.

Speaker 4 Hold on.

Speaker 2 Do you have an actual job or is that what the whoever you bought this $30,000 course for, by the way, which you probably could have taken for $850 at a local community college?

Speaker 2 Are they the ones telling you that starting salary start at 65 to 80 grand or do you have a job in hand?

Speaker 2 that's kind of what they're they're they're guessing bro town and like dude you can't listen to what they're saying man they're they're they're just selling you a marketing message you got to get on the horn and try to get jobs

Speaker 2 right what they're doing is taking an aggregate of potential those who did get a job which doesn't count any of the people who didn't get jobs with the certificate this is um an approximate of what some of those people have made

Speaker 2 that's not what your salary

Speaker 4 the the jobs uh the job listings that's what they're saying okay

Speaker 1 for the field for the it field can i run it back a little bit more because we don't have a whole lot of time on this course on this call and i want to give you something to think about when you leave here um do you want to know what i i'm just this is one woman's opinion uh i think that the the deal happened with your son and it scared you but i don't think that's to what's responsible for this financial situation.

Speaker 1 I think most of what was on your credit cards was there already.

Speaker 1 And yeah, you may have added a a little bit to it, but I think that that was mostly there. I also think that these student loans are what's really eating your lunch right now.

Speaker 1 And so coming off of one crisis with your son and then feeling the crisis of this financial situation, I think is what's got you in a tizzy.

Speaker 1 But truly, I don't think one has too much to do with the other. The key here is the $4,000.

Speaker 1 You mentioned your wife's

Speaker 1 home with the kids. Is there any way that she can pick up some part-time work as well?

Speaker 1 Because I think that you've got to get a second job because of this course like if you got this course now it's like okay i have to make this thing worth it and i have to figure out when did i when do i say that it's going to roi and when do i say it's going to pay itself off right and you can't be waiting around for you know two three years to pay this thing back you've got to get on like john said get on the horn now and get this thing paid off and truly cut up the credit cards so before you get off the line um Christian's going to pick up over there and we're going to get you every dollar.

Speaker 1 We're going to let you try out the premium version for a while because in order to do this, you're going to have to know where every single dollar is going.

Speaker 1 Now is not the time to be playing, you know, pity, pity patty and patty cake with your dollars.

Speaker 1 You got to know where everything's going because on a $4,000 monthly income, you're going to have to be very intentional to get this paid off quickly, but we're going to help you do it.

Speaker 1 This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 You're listening to The Ramsey Show. It's me, Jade Warshaw, next to my good buddy, Dr.
John Deloney, host of the Dr. John Deloney Show, taking your calls all hour long.

Speaker 1 Remember, it's a live show, so if you want to get on, the number is 888-825-5225. We'll get you on.
We'll talk about your life, your money.

Speaker 1 Listen, we can talk about anything you want to talk about as long as it relates.

Speaker 2 I got an opinion on lots of stuff.

Speaker 1 Tell me one. Give me a hot take right on the spot.
Come on, John. You can get a lot of people.

Speaker 2 The hottest take of 2025 thus far. I got two of them.
One with that last call. And we can get into that if you want to.
Let's get into it. I'm going to get myself canceled.

Speaker 2 But the second hot take of 2025, I love bearded James Childs.

Speaker 1 I was going to say a James Childs hot take. I was going to say, give me a James Childs without a hat.
Come on. It's like a new man.

Speaker 2 It's a different man. He has been a hat wearer and like super every day.
He shaves. And now he's like, his band Code of Glow is crushing.
And he's just like, I'm going to own

Speaker 2 the rugged.

Speaker 1 He stepped out from behind, you know? He's like the guy that sits in the back. He stepped out and said, here I am.

Speaker 2 Yeah. How do you like this world? Yes.
Yes. Yeah.
So that's hot take. That's hot take number two.
Hot take number one

Speaker 2 is

Speaker 1 my guy, Nicholas.

Speaker 2 Yeah, last caller. So this is an unpopular thought.

Speaker 2 That particular guy, his kid had an asthma attack. Yes.
Really got super scary. Yeah.
Very, very scary situation.

Speaker 2 He's the only breadwinner. His wife stays at home with kids.
Kid goes to ICU for three weeks.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 2 He doesn't go back to work. He stays in the hospital for three weeks with his wife and they've got two little kids and they racked up a jillion dollars in credit card debt theoretically.

Speaker 2 Theoretically.

Speaker 2 And then while he was there, it sounded like he decided to sign up for a $30,000

Speaker 2 cybersecurity course, right?

Speaker 2 My hot take is

Speaker 2 being able to knock off three weeks of work

Speaker 2 with no income,

Speaker 2 no way to pay your bills, and is in many ways, it's two different choices. One, I'm always going to be with my kid no matter what, end of story, end of time.

Speaker 2 I get that, and my two kids are my entire world. I get it.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And also, you are making a choice to set your house up for the next however many years with

Speaker 2 electricity and angst and misery because you just start swiping that that credit card on everything. And then you decide, well, I'm just going to get another, I need to get another job.

Speaker 2 So I'm going to trust the back of a brochure for some for-profit certificate program that I found online that's got

Speaker 2 fly-by-night nonsense. So my hot take is

Speaker 2 math doesn't care about your situation. Man, what? And so this is one of those reasons why we preach so much.
Don't owe anybody any money. Drive a crappy Corolla.
Work two jobs to get out of debt.

Speaker 2 Not if, but when one of your kids gets sick, one of your relatives passes away.

Speaker 2 I wrote about the book. Like

Speaker 2 the greatest blessing following the Ramsey plan has been for me and my wife, besides just the peace in our house, was two years ago when one of my favorite people on the planet, one of my cousins, just suddenly died.

Speaker 2 I didn't have to look.

Speaker 2 I booked a hotel. I didn't have to sleep under an aunt's kitchen table, right? On a pallet of some sort.
And we got plane tickets and we went down and we got the privilege of just being sad.

Speaker 2 Math doesn't care. And so if you are the main breadwinner, somebody's got to keep working, right?

Speaker 2 And that's one of those awful, like Sophie's choice kind of responsibilities, I think, especially falls on dads when you're the breadwinner.

Speaker 2 It comes those moments when, okay, mom's going to sit in the hospital and right when work's over, you're coming there. You're going to spend the night there.
You're going to sleep there.

Speaker 2 You're going to get up at 5.30 in the morning.

Speaker 2 You're going to get up and you're going to go back to work because somebody's got to keep the lights on at the house for the other kids and for that family.

Speaker 2 And so I know we live in a world where we are yanked around by how our kids feel and how we feel about our kids.

Speaker 2 I want this kind of special dog. All right, we'll get more dogs.
I want to play these sports. We're going to play those sports.
I got on the travel team. We're going to go everywhere.

Speaker 2 And I think that letting our kids be the center of our universes: A, our kids can't carry that weight. They can't carry it.
And B, our houses are falling apart around that worship of our kids.

Speaker 2 Somebody's got to keep the lights on.

Speaker 1 That's a really good point. And it is a hot take because the truth is when somebody starts talking about their kids, somebody in the hospital, it's like, okay, free pass, right?

Speaker 1 We automatically kind of want to count.

Speaker 2 Bills don't count. The world doesn't count.

Speaker 1 But what I hope is, and Nicholas, if you're still listening, we're not picking on you. What I hope is that you take away from this,

Speaker 1 this is what we would call around here an I've had it moment. It should be.
And it's what I'd call an I've had it moment because the truth is,

Speaker 1 and I'll try to talk about it from a personal point of view so it doesn't sound like we're harping on you because we're not trying to paint you into a bad guy, but we want this to be a moment where you pivot and change.

Speaker 1 If you say the problem was

Speaker 1 my kid got sick and went to the hospital, if we say the problem was,

Speaker 1 let's take it down on a lower level, the problem was I lost my job and now here we are. The problem was

Speaker 1 my husband overdrew the checking account and now here we are.

Speaker 1 Those are just symptoms.

Speaker 1 Those are not the real problem.

Speaker 1 and and this is why we teach what we teach the real problem is the wind blew and i had a house made of straw that's the real problem right and so if we can get above it and go all right i don't want to be in this situation ever again that's when real change can happen i remember um this was years ago sam and i were paying off uh

Speaker 1 in the midst of paying off our debt we had 460 to pay off and i remember we were still trying to figure out budgeting still trying to figure and we had no money and so my sister my sister ended up uh having a medical emergency in Orlando.

Speaker 1 Orlando is like two and a half hours from where I lived. She was in the hospital.
And I'm thinking, all right, I'm going to go see her. I had no money, no extra gas money.

Speaker 1 Cause when your budget is like tight to the wire, no extra gas money, nothing.

Speaker 1 And I remember being like, oh my gosh, I'm going to have to call my parents and ask them for money because I'm not putting on a credit card. I'm not doing any of this.

Speaker 1 And that was such a, oh my gosh, A, swallow my pride moment. B, am I going to make the choice that's going to drive us further into debt? And C, also, I never want to be in this situation ever again.

Speaker 1 So what do I have to fix? I can't blame it on my sister and be like, man, she was in debt. And it was because that happened.
I have to go, what, what part am I playing in this?

Speaker 1 And yes, sucky stuff happens and it comes out of the blue and it's painful. But if I don't look at where I set myself up and what I did, does that make sense?

Speaker 2 I remember being a dean of students.

Speaker 2 And I got real sick. I remember throwing up blood.

Speaker 2 And I remember I don't even have enough room on a credit card to go to the ER. And I had to call my buddy Todd and say, I think I got to go to the emergency room.
Can I borrow your credit card?

Speaker 2 And without even blinking, he said, I got you, Jimmy, to drive you. And I said, give me another hour.
And I ended up feeling a little bit better, a little bit better.

Speaker 2 But in that moment of being real sick, I remember never again. Well, I, and here's how I thought about it.
I'll never put a friend in that position again. Yeah.
That a buddy's going to call him.

Speaker 2 That I've taken so little care of my household

Speaker 2 that

Speaker 2 this is the situation I'm in because I can't control spending or I want to go out on the weekends or me and my wife deserve to go out to eat.

Speaker 1 But if you had said, if you had walked away from that and said, okay,

Speaker 1 it got taken care of. That's right.
Somehow it came together. It always comes together.

Speaker 2 Or I just showed up at the YR and we'll pay the bills later. Right, right.

Speaker 1 Which we can, it's so easy for us to do, well, it worked out.

Speaker 1 I guess everything's fine. And then you just go back about life as it was.
You've got to have the, you've got to use these as the catalysts that they are to really change and dial in.

Speaker 2 And as we look at the systems that we are all accustomed to,

Speaker 2 we're starting to see the cracks. They're not always just going to work out.
That's right. They're not always just going to work out.

Speaker 2 And I'm convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that these big systemic cracks,

Speaker 2 it's not just going to work.

Speaker 2 It's not going to get fixed at the system level. It's going to get fixed with people in their household say, as for me in my house, no more.

Speaker 2 I never want to call my mom again and say, can I borrow gas to go see my sister?

Speaker 2 I never want to call my buddy and say, can I borrow your credit card? I don't even have enough room on

Speaker 2 a bank won't even loan me the money to go to the ER, much less have it on my checking account, right? I have to be done with this.

Speaker 1 Do you want to know what really got me? One time, this was long before I worked here.

Speaker 1 This was during 2008. So it was the Great Recession.
Everybody's calling into the show talking to Dave about, I'm losing my house.

Speaker 1 Dave is sitting here going, well, I've purchased more real estate than I've ever purchased. And he said, you want to get to the point that when there's a storm, you can fly above it.

Speaker 1 And I remember sitting in my car with my $400 and something thousand dollars of debt being so jealous, but also so like convicted. Yes, yeah, yes, Dave, like that.

Speaker 1 The next time it pours, the next time it rains, the next time the fire comes, my house is going to be prepared. And you want to know when the next time it happened? 2020.
And do you want to know what?

Speaker 2 We were ready. Folk were prepared.

Speaker 1 And that's what I'm saying, guys. It will storm.
It will rain. This is your chance.
This This is your call. Be prepared.

Speaker 1 You're listening to the Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw.
Next to me is Dr. John Deloney.
Happy to be with you guys. Thanks for hanging out with us.

Speaker 1 And if you are a listener, just, I always say this, but keep listening, keep sharing it, keep liking it, keep subscribing. That's super important for us.
We're happy that you do that.

Speaker 1 Also, the Ramsey Show annual listener survey is live. What that means means is you finally get to tell us all the things that have been burning inside of you about the show.

Speaker 1 We want to know your favorite parts of the show. We want to know what you like, what you don't, what you want to hear more of.
But whatever it is, we just want to hear it. So let it rip as they say.

Speaker 1 There's two ways to participate. You can text survey to the number 33789, or you can visit ramseysolutions.com slash survey.
If you're listening on podcast

Speaker 1 or YouTube, you can click the link in the description. So yeah, let us know.
I'm curious.

Speaker 2 Somebody's going to say something about man, sometimes in these surveys, people will be drinking the haterade, but it's alright.

Speaker 1 They're going to be like, never wear those glasses. That wig was weird.
All right. Sign up today to be entered to win a $500 gift card.

Speaker 2 John Deloney, never talk again.

Speaker 1 No, nobody would say that.

Speaker 2 I assure you, they've said that.

Speaker 2 I promise. James reads all of them too.

Speaker 1 He will read them all.

Speaker 1 Luckily for us,

Speaker 1 unless there's like a trend, like lots of people being like, Dave, or John never needs to speak again. So there won't be that many people.

Speaker 2 There won't be a trend. There'll be a few.

Speaker 2 All right.

Speaker 2 I'm not for everybody. I get that.

Speaker 2 I get that.

Speaker 1 More importantly, what I was saying is if you sign up today, you can be entered to win a $500 gift card, which is schnazzy. All right, let's go to Brad.
West Palm Beach, Florida. Love it.

Speaker 1 What's going on, Brad?

Speaker 4 Hey, Jay. Hey, Dr.
John, thank you guys so much for taking my call and thanks to Dave Rancy for helping make us financially independent, my wife and I.

Speaker 2 Love it.

Speaker 4 We are moving into, let's call it, a semi-retirement modality of life. And as part of that move, we moved down to South Florida, where I used to live, to be closer to our parents.

Speaker 4 And it has turned into an emotionally, very difficult experience for me.

Speaker 4 I am, we are, we actually put our house, we moved down here, bought a house, put it on the market,

Speaker 4 after two months, sold it.

Speaker 4 We're now kind of in rental mode and we're considering moving um up north kind of where we had some original desire to move to and i feel like i'm kind of trapped in this loop where i cannot convince myself that it's okay to do this um i feel guilty about it um what's the anchor brothers and

Speaker 4 my parents are here my wife's parents are here um

Speaker 4 they're pretty much independent and they're all independent my mother she she does rely on us financially um and i help her out around the the house. She needs help around the house from time to time.

Speaker 2 Why was it so emotionally and psychologically draining?

Speaker 4 I had to, you know, for a long time, there's nothing I wanted to do, but move back here. You know, I grew up not with a lot of money.

Speaker 4 Went off, you know, made money, became, you know,

Speaker 4 financially successful. I kind of had a dream to come back here and do all these things I used to do that I couldn't do when I was a kid.

Speaker 4 And then over the years, I just kind of grew out of that need to do that and just kind of fell in love with the Northeast and Maine and Portland.

Speaker 2 This is an old dream.

Speaker 1 You cashed in on a portion of the world.

Speaker 2 That's right.

Speaker 4 Yeah. I mean, it's an old dream.
And

Speaker 4 living here when I was a kid was not pleasant for me for a lot of reasons.

Speaker 4 Part of it, just a lot of emotional baggage, a lot of things I kind of do and see around here that kind of remind me of stuff I don't want to be reminded of.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 are you feeling guilty about moving just because you've

Speaker 2 leaving the parents? Yeah, leaving the parents.

Speaker 4 Especially my mom, who's

Speaker 2 how old is she?

Speaker 4 She's 77, 78 now. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You said they're independent?

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 4 Well,

Speaker 4 yeah, so there's three sets of parents here.

Speaker 4 My wife's parents have now moved to the same town that my parents are living in. They're here.
They're totally independent. My father is living here.
He has Parkinson's now, but he's independent.

Speaker 4 He has a wife. He's being taken care of.
And his health and his mental. He's fine.
And then my mom is living by herself alone in a house that I in the house I grew up with as a kid.

Speaker 1 So this is and then where your place was, did you move into that same hometown or were you kind of an hour away? What did you guys do?

Speaker 4 No, I am we're in the same the same town in the same hometown. Yeah, we're five, three, four miles away from them.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Listen, I'm going to commiserate with you for a minute because there's part of this that I understand.

Speaker 1 When Sam and I took the job to come to Ramsey, I had lived in Nashville before, and it wasn't a great time for me. That time in my life was not what I would call a great time.

Speaker 1 And so coming back, I was like, I'm not going to go and live in that part of town because I don't want to be passing by these types of, you know what I mean? Like those types of memories all the time.

Speaker 1 So I almost wonder, there's two parts of this, and John is going to be the expert, but part of me wonders if you're there for the right reasons. Cause if you're not, why stay?

Speaker 1 But if you decide that it is the right reason, what would it look like for you to be close to them, but not in your childhood city? You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 And not in the same place that you experienced whatever negative kind of vibe that you experienced before.

Speaker 2 We did move. Go ahead, sorry.
No, you go ahead. You moved what?

Speaker 4 We did. So we did choose, I did choose an area that I didn't really hang out on as a kid in.
So we are living somewhere that we actually both like the area as far as being here.

Speaker 4 You know, and so that's helped some. But I mean, this whole county was my stomping ground.

Speaker 4 So it's not like you know and and i i i know sell i know florida very well this is this is probably the best place in florida to be quite honestly if you're going to be here this is where you want to be but you could go further down and get the coral springs area is nice

Speaker 4 yeah and then it's more exceeding more expensive and

Speaker 2 where did you move from where did you move from

Speaker 4 i so i spent the last 25 years in atlanta atlanta georgia Four seasons, you know, which we which we loved.

Speaker 4 I just fell in love with four seasons.

Speaker 2 Here's a couple of things.

Speaker 2 I did the same thing. I moved.
My parents are in their mid-70s.

Speaker 2 And it was the right thing for me and my family. And it's the worst.

Speaker 2 It's worst on guilt. It's worst on.

Speaker 2 I now have on the back of a napkin,

Speaker 2 when I see them twice a year, maybe.

Speaker 2 Right? So I'm going to see them 20 more times before they pass away. That's the math, right?

Speaker 2 And so I had to make a choice to choose guilt over resentment. If I stayed in that small town where they live,

Speaker 2 I know

Speaker 2 I would dump all of my angst onto them and it's not fair because it's not theirs. It would have been mine.
But when I left, I feel real guilty about it. I do.
And it's hard to connect.

Speaker 2 And I've lost, we used to have walk in and out of each other's houses. Like, that's gone now, right? Now we have to make schedules a year out.
We're going to try, like, it sucks. It's the worst.

Speaker 2 And so that's number one. Number two,

Speaker 2 I was not, I did not anticipate moving halfway across the country that the person who would come with me was me.

Speaker 2 So all my insecurities, frustrations, childhood drama, all that crap came across the country with me. So whatever you think you're running from will go with you to Oregon.

Speaker 2 And so Portland, Maine. Or Portland or to Maine, wherever you're going to go, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It will go with you.

Speaker 2 And so knowing that, if you've got demons to work through, dude, work through your demons. Forget the geography.
You got to work through your childhood crap.

Speaker 2 And healing would be, can I drive through those old streets and remember that thing that happened and not have my body set off every alarm system it has as though I'm back to being nine years old again?

Speaker 2 That's healing. Yeah, I mean, and also, I don't want to live there, so I'm not going to live there.
That's really it.

Speaker 2 Right?

Speaker 2 You don't need some grand narrative as to say, I really want to live here, but you you are going to have to deal with the guilt part. And that's just part of it.

Speaker 1 And it's okay if your dream changes. Like, it's okay.
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 If back in the day, you were like, one of these days, I'm going to go back to West Palm Beach and I'm going to do all the things that I couldn't do.

Speaker 1 Like, if that was your dream at some point in life, but now here you are in your 40s or 50s, I don't know how old you are.

Speaker 1 And you're like, who cares?

Speaker 1 I'm my own guy. I'm happy in my life.
I'm a Northeast Coast guy now, and that's who I am. Great.

Speaker 2 Dreams change all the time. I was always going to have this kind of car.
That would let me know. Dude, I want an old pickup truck.
I'm going to move home in my life. Heck yeah.
Right.

Speaker 2 So the thing is, is I want you to not outsource this angst onto them, onto the geography. Instead, I want this to be a decision you are choosing to make.

Speaker 2 And that choice is going to come with some guilt, some awesomeness, some clarity, some frustration. It's going to come with all that stuff.
So it's about taking ownership of what you do next.

Speaker 2 You've sold your house. You want to go.
You're gone in your head. You're just, your feet are stuck somewhere.
Just go.

Speaker 2 And by the way, in the same way that you bought a house and sold sold it in two months you can go up to the north uh east and realize oh this is a terrible mistake i need to be back with my parents and come right back it just is what it is man you're free as a bird to do what you're going to do just take ownership of the choices you're making in your life choose guilt over resentment every time marinate on that until we see you next time on the ramsey show

Speaker 1 From the Ramsey Network, it's the Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshot.
Next to me, my good buddy, Dr. John Deloney.
We're working together, taking your calls, your life, your money. Give us a free call.

Speaker 1 Remember, it's a live show, so the number is 888-825-5225. We'll get you in.
Let's go directly to the phone lines. I'm ready to just

Speaker 2 go to Texas.

Speaker 1 Yeah, Janie in Dallas, Texas. What's up, Janie?

Speaker 2 Hello.

Speaker 5 My question is, I recently had a parent-in-law pass away, and I was informed and told that all the siblings had to come together to pay for the funeral.

Speaker 5 And while it was very sad what happened, they did leave property behind and vehicles, several properties, as a matter of fact. And so, is it okay that I feel like this is not my obligation?

Speaker 5 Is there something wrong with that, with feeling that way?

Speaker 2 You can feel however you want to feel.

Speaker 2 Feelings are cool. That doesn't make them true.
Okay. And it won't have, it may have zero bearing on what actually happens, but yeah, feel however you want to feel.

Speaker 4 Okay.

Speaker 5 I just, I'm being made to feel like I'm a bad person because I don't want to help pay for a funeral that I know there's money there, and it's, I guess it's just the principle of being told that I, you know, that we have to pay for the funeral.

Speaker 1 Who's making you feel bad? Your spouse or the in-laws' siblings?

Speaker 2 My spouse. Do y'all have the money?

Speaker 5 We do. Okay.

Speaker 1 I want to know what John's going to say, but I want to know two things before he says it. Number one, how much?

Speaker 5 It was just under $3,000.

Speaker 1 Per sibling, like per sibling family.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 4 There's eight of them.

Speaker 2 There's eight brothers and sisters? Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 Yes. So $24,000 for this funeral is what we're looking at?

Speaker 2 Correct. Okay.

Speaker 1 Then

Speaker 1 the other part, and John's going to say what he's going to say.

Speaker 1 The other part, if I were in your shoes, this this is the situation I'm thinking if I had and I don't know what your relationship was with the in-laws but if I had a poor relationship with my in-laws if I didn't really have a relationship with them I'd care two cents and I'm finding out that our cut of the thing is 3,000 which that's not the case what I'm just saying my first inclination would be to say well how would I feel if it was reverse and if it was my family what would I

Speaker 1 What is the treatment that I would hope from my spouse? So that's just kind of where my mind first goes, John.

Speaker 2 Well, I think it's 100%.

Speaker 2 If I was a guessing man, a betting man, I would bet you've been, quote unquote, told what y'all are going to do for holidays, for meals, for shopping, for how many presents.

Speaker 2 You've been, you're tired of being told, huh? Correct. Yes.
And so

Speaker 2 it sounds like your feelings are your feelings. You can have them all day long.

Speaker 2 This is your husband's mom or your husband's dad.

Speaker 2 Got it. And if you got 3,000 bucks, you got it.

Speaker 2 And if there's a whole bunch of property 17 years after it's all been filtered through all eight siblings and their spouses and their kids and ex-spouses and all that, you'll get your $3,000 back.

Speaker 4 Got it.

Speaker 2 I mean, I mean, if you were telling me, hey, this is going to put us on the street and my husband's putting all this on a credit card, he went out and took a HELOC out, then we're sitting down because I would have a conversation with him.

Speaker 2 Like, math doesn't care that your parents just passed away. You don't have that money.

Speaker 2 Got it. Right? Y'all do.
This is just about you are tired of getting pushed around by his family. Is that fair? Very fair.
okay

Speaker 2 this is this is outside of it and jade push back on me outside of we we simply don't have the money

Speaker 2 um

Speaker 5 it's not the first time it's happened and so i guess i know you know it's like it happens all the time and i'm just tired

Speaker 2 okay so here's the deal yeah it's happened a whole bunch it's going to happen a whole bunch after this but

Speaker 2 when the house is um underwater that's not the time to talk about,

Speaker 2 I told you you should have replaced the faucet. That's the time to get all the water out of the house, start bailing the water out.

Speaker 2 Once the water's bailed out, then we're going to go to breakfast and we're going to talk about, hey, in the future,

Speaker 2 every time I feel like that your brothers and sisters and their spouses have more influence on our home than I do.

Speaker 2 And I didn't say I do to all of them. I said I do to you.
This is our home. Can we come up with some boundaries for

Speaker 2 what is going to be, what is going to be?

Speaker 2 If that means coming up with a fund that he puts money into every month, like a sinking fund that is just take care of his boundaryless family members because he doesn't have any spine, cool, come up with that fund.

Speaker 4 Okay.

Speaker 2 But with one of his parents in a casket right now, that's just a weird time to throw the gauntlet down for $2,500 or $3,000 money y'all have.

Speaker 1 Well, that, and it makes you the bad guy.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And there, exactly.

Speaker 2 Here's the bad guy here. The bad guy here is nobody.
Just it stinks that we lost a parent.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Right. And so I would hold his hand through grief and say, I'm sorry for causing a ruckus.
Let's put our $3,000 in.

Speaker 2 And then when this whole thing is over, when he's, y'all write your, you know, y'all are doing your grief. Y'all are talking about what now? How are you?

Speaker 2 Then you come up with the boundaries conversation. Hey, this has happened our entire marriage.
And

Speaker 2 I want to draw a line here.

Speaker 2 Thank you. Is that fair?

Speaker 5 That's very fair.

Speaker 2 Okay. I'm sorry about your loss.
And by the way, your feelings, anybody listening, your feelings are your feelings. You can have them.
You're allowed to. That doesn't change reality, though.
No.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 1 But what you said is such a good point. Don't don't draw the line in the sand.
Don't die on the hill while you're still, you know, climbing up it.

Speaker 1 Like, wait till you get to the top and be like, okay, now let's talk.

Speaker 2 I remember one of my professors told me, like, no one has ever had an aha moment after 10 o'clock at night. Go to bed.
Yeah. Go to bed.
Right.

Speaker 2 That old, like, don't go to bed on your anger. Sometimes go to bed.
Yeah. Y'all are together.
You're united. You'll figure it out.

Speaker 1 out go to bed and figure it out after everybody's eaten and somebody's had some coffee and the sun is back out that yeah that's so funny sam and i learned early on in our marriage like there's something about standing in the kitchen that it's not a good time it's never a good time it always turns out to an argument if you're standing up in the kitchen after hours and you bring up something that's a hot button issue

Speaker 2 it will be an argument yes and so even last night my wife said and and it's because she's awesome um i wanted to talk about calendar and then budget and then there was more budget and then and we got all the way into, all right, but if I move over this for my son's freshman year of college, he's a freshman in high school, by the way.

Speaker 2 And she said, she literally goes, you have seven minutes because it's getting up on nine o'clock. And she's like, yeah, seven minutes.
And then, and then I turn back into a pumpkin.

Speaker 2 And it was like, like, we don't have any productive conversations after seven. That's true.
And I get all nihilistic. And then what happens when the dollar collapse?

Speaker 2 And she's like, dude, I just want to go to bed.

Speaker 1 But you know what? Do you know what I find? When you figure out those things that kind of takes the steam out, like Sam and I figured out early on, if we go for a walk

Speaker 1 and we're not looking at like you probably know this because you're a shoulder,

Speaker 1 the professional. But when we're not looking at each other,

Speaker 1 we can talk about some of the most like high, like things that would usually turn into an argument.

Speaker 1 We're able to talk through them because we're not looking directly, like staring face to face, watching every nuance of your reaction. It's like, just go for a walk, hold hands.

Speaker 2 Well, that's why I always tell people

Speaker 2 when you have hard conversations, don't have them at dinner, have them at breakfast because the sun is out, you've got some sleep, and you can't stand in the kitchen. Don't do it, stand in the in

Speaker 2 at the table. Yeah, like, like,

Speaker 2 yeah, the environment plays a big role into this, but yeah, if when somebody's parent has passed away, if there's trauma there, it's going to hurt. If they were super tight, it's going to hurt.

Speaker 2 It's just going to hurt.

Speaker 2 And that's not the time to be like, well, I told you.

Speaker 2 Let's get through that funeral. If you got the money, you got the money.
You got the money.

Speaker 2 So thanks for that call.

Speaker 2 Janie, your willingness to be open about your feelings is going to help a lot of people. Because I think a lot of people right now, Jay, don't feel like they have permission to feel that feeling

Speaker 2 doesn't change reality though that's right and we have to operate in reality that's true very very good advice dr.

Speaker 1 John Deloney as usual glad you're sitting here co-hosting with me hey we'll be right back with you this is the Ramsey show

Speaker 1 You're listening to the Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw.
Next to me, Dr. John Deloney, taking your cause, your life, your money.
Hope that you are enjoying this new year.

Speaker 1 I hope that you are well into your new ways of life.

Speaker 2 I'm not even going to call them goals.

Speaker 1 Let's just say your new way of life, your new habits. And I hope it's working out well for you.
If you're feeling stuck with your money, we can help you with that. Triple 8-825-525-225 is the number.

Speaker 1 We got John in Chicago, Illinois. What's going on, John?

Speaker 4 Hey, thanks, guys. I'm looking to propose to the girlfriend within the next year or so, and I'm curious about how I should go about doing that, like financially.

Speaker 4 Like what's the best way to calculate or determine how much one should spend on an engagement ring interesting

Speaker 1 what do you earn

Speaker 4 so right now I'm 21 I'm a full-time college student I only make $15 an hour but I do have $30,000 in cash just kind of waiting to pull the trigger I know that's probably too much but yeah way too much way too much I love that you would have been willing to spend that though that's sweet yeah out of your mind

Speaker 2 I'm just saying it's sweet brother John that's that's crazy talk don't spend $30,000 on an uncash.

Speaker 4 I definitely wasn't planning on that.

Speaker 2 I could

Speaker 4 want to be financially stable for it.

Speaker 2 $75.

Speaker 1 No, no, no, no. See,

Speaker 1 we can't be going to extremes like this. So, okay.

Speaker 1 In a month, what do you bring in in a month?

Speaker 2 Zero.

Speaker 2 Because you said $15 an hour, right?

Speaker 4 Yeah, maybe $1,000.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 So traditionally, people say like three months income if you can save it up, right?

Speaker 1 I thought David said one month i well i'm i'm getting to that okay so tradition is like three months that seems

Speaker 1 wildcats to me it depends on the lady that

Speaker 1 let me lay it out john let me lay it out i'm cheap john america i'm cheap here's what i want you to filter it through like current current tradition is like three months i think you're right i think i have heard dave i don't want to put words in dave's mouth but i feel like i have heard him say maybe one month then you have to think about your lady some women are like i you could take a string and tie it around my finger, and if it's romantic, I'm in right.

Speaker 1 And then, other pape people who are on the more on the bougie side of the scale, like yours truly, might want a little something extra and they might cause you to come correct, you know. And then,

Speaker 2 so if I look at Jade's hand wrong, it blinds me, John. It blinds me.

Speaker 1 The truth is, Sam bought a ring, and I was like,

Speaker 1 and got a different one.

Speaker 2 So, this

Speaker 1 matters, okay? So, on the one hand, don't spend 30,000. That's way too much.
But is there something around the three, you know, do you think she'd be happy if you spent one month's worth?

Speaker 1 Or do you think she'd be happier if you spent three?

Speaker 2 The truth is.

Speaker 4 I think she'd be happy if it happens.

Speaker 2 Okay, then there you go. She's definitely not bougie.

Speaker 2 I would, again, I haven't shopped for a diamond in over two decades, so I have no reference point, but I, you got 30,000 bucks in the bank. I think 3,000 bucks, 4,000 bucks sounds about right.

Speaker 2 That seems right.

Speaker 1 How old are you again?

Speaker 2 21. I'm 21.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Like, that's, that's impressive. Where'd you get that money, dude?

Speaker 2 I made it sound like you're like killed somebody.

Speaker 2 Business ventures. Okay.
Okay.

Speaker 4 Nothing crazy, just lots of savings.

Speaker 2 Good. Excellent, man.
Well, that's pretty remarkable for a 21-year-old, man. There's millions and millions of adults that don't have that kind of money, so good on you.

Speaker 2 Hey, I got a proposition for you.

Speaker 2 You want to get on hold right now and call her and ask her to marry you on the air right now? Come on, man.

Speaker 2 She's totally not with us. Sorry, not with me right now.

Speaker 2 Ask her on the phone.

Speaker 2 That happens all the time time now can you you probably could like facetime her now i think she she doesn't want it over the phone she don't want it on the internet i know dumb playing i was just oh i wasn't joking i was so ready for this moment you passed the test good good on you well i'm sorry ramsey fans that can't happen

Speaker 1 well take a video of it tag us in it i want to know about this i'm proud of you and remember it's not the ring that the ring doesn't really it matters but it is not the whole you're gonna be married forever forever

Speaker 2 That's right.

Speaker 1 Forever. And, you know, I look at my ring from time to time and I'm like, this is a nice ring.

Speaker 1 But if something were to happen to it, if I never had it, I'd still be married to Sam Warshaw and I'd be a happy lady. So that's a nice ring.
That's a nice car. It is.
You want to know?

Speaker 1 It's got, it's not perfect. It's not a perfect diamond.
It's got inclusions.

Speaker 2 But I love this. What's so cool about today? I don't even know what that means.

Speaker 1 It means it's imperfect, just like a relationship.

Speaker 2 That's where you're wrong. My relationship's perfect.
Let's go out to Akron, Ohio, and talk to Zatch. What's up, Zach?

Speaker 1 Not Zatch. Never say that.

Speaker 2 Zach. What's up, Zach?

Speaker 4 It's not even spelled that way.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 there you go. I like it.
What's up, Zach?

Speaker 4 So I'm almost, I'm on babysit up two.

Speaker 4 I'm almost paid off with a credit card.

Speaker 4 My question is if I should pay off my 401k loans next or jump straight to the next credit card.

Speaker 1 I would go to the 401k loan first because that bad boy's on a timer. There's a couple of things that I'd always put to the top of the list.
IRS debt, 40K one loan, 401k loan is one of them.

Speaker 1 Because the truth is, if something were to happen, you were to lose your job, you'd be on the hook for that.

Speaker 1 You'd have a calendar year to pay that bad boy before you start getting hit with fees and penalties beyond what you already have.

Speaker 1 How much is it for?

Speaker 4 I have one for $4,000 and one for $8,000. Uh-huh.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I'd get into it.
What caused you to take them out?

Speaker 4 Debt consolidation. And then I ran ran back up the balances as you often do.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. Hey, just as a just as a curiosity, because so many people call in here and they're like, Jade, why can't I do debt consolidation?

Speaker 1 And one of the things I tell people is that sometimes when you've consolidated it into one payment, you feel like you've done something, but you haven't really done anything, right?

Speaker 1 And it's only one payment and you kind of feel like you've got less. Is that what happened to you? Did you feel, what do you think caused you to go back in?

Speaker 4 I just didn't change my habits. You know, I only had that $100 payment.
So, you know, I had that extra money back in my budget every month. And so I could afford all that stuff on Amazon.
And

Speaker 4 it's like repeated.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Listen, you're helping people.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I agree. I would go first to these 401k loans and clear those out just because, like I said, similar to the IRS, they're on that timer and there's a lot of risk associated with that.

Speaker 1 And then how much more do you have to pay off until you're done?

Speaker 4 $22,000. So I have $10,000 on that last credit card and then 12,000 on a personal loan.

Speaker 2 Okay. All right.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's what I would do.

Speaker 2 Get on it, brother. Congratulations, dude.
You are on the path to freedom, my man.

Speaker 1 Ooh, I think we can hit one more right quick. Can we do it? We got two minutes.
Should I do it?

Speaker 2 Hold on, we got to do this. Oh, if you're ready to get your finances in order once and for all in 2025,

Speaker 2 join Jade and my main man, Dave Ramsey, on January 23rd for the free live stream, Take Control of Your Money. Jade Jade and Dave are going to be hosting this.

Speaker 2 You're going to learn how to stop living paycheck to paycheck and free up more breathing room so you can pay off debt fast and finally get ahead with your money.

Speaker 2 And Rachel Cruz and George Campbell are going to show up for a live Q ⁇ A where you can ask your money questions live and you can be entered to win $4,000.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And I like taking Dave's money.
I love it.

Speaker 2 It's one of my favorite things.

Speaker 2 You can sign up for the free live stream by going to ramseysolutions.com slash live stream or you can click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube.

Speaker 2 Jay Money, what are y'all going to be talking about?

Speaker 1 Practically speaking, we're going to, listen, I'm going to tell you how the whole thing is going to roll out.

Speaker 1 We're going to talk to you about how you're feeling right now, the state of the economy, what's going on external, internally, right?

Speaker 1 We got inflation, real estate market's been weird, election just happened. There's a lot going on.
You're feeling some type of way. So Dave's going to unpack that.

Speaker 1 He's going to tell a little of his story. I'm going to tell a little of my story.
We're going to talk about how to make traction, right? We're going to talk about the debt snowball.

Speaker 1 We're going to answer questions about investing. So we're hitting all of it.
And then I am going to do a budget breakdown.

Speaker 1 I'm going to show you how to set up your budget because that budget is the foundation of everything we teach.

Speaker 1 If you've listened to this show, even for just a second, you've heard us talk about budgeting. And so I'm going to walk you real time through how to do that, how to set it up.

Speaker 1 And then afterwards, we're having a Q ⁇ A. And George Campbell's on the line.
Rachel Cruz is going to be on the line. And listen, we can't be stopped.

Speaker 2 One of the most common things, like when I meet with people who are behind closed doors, fly in we'll sit down for a while they have net worths that I can't even fathom

Speaker 2 one of the most common questions that they talk about they ask me is

Speaker 2 with some bit of shame in the conversation

Speaker 2 dude tell me about this budget thing like what do you mean they run big companies and this idea of i don't even know how that works it's a humbling scary question to ask and so if you have wondered i don't even know how to do a budget or you think i know how to do it but you've never have done it and it's just, God, dude, I'm embarrassed to ask anybody.

Speaker 2 This is the event for you. It's free.
It's free. You can be at your house and just put it on the screen and watch it and get control of everything.
I'm hyped for it, man.

Speaker 1 Budgets are like toothbrushes. Everyone needs one.

Speaker 2 And you got to use it twice a day. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Without it, things get ratchet. No matter how much money you make or don't make, you need a budget.
And we'll talk about just that. January 23rd, be there or be square.
This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 You're listening to the Ramsey Show. Thanks for hanging out with us.
The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by YReFi. Student loan debt is a swamp.

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Remember, it may not be available in all states.

Speaker 2 All right, today's question comes from Hannah in Nebraska. Hannah writes, I'm a stay-at-home mom with two kids under the age of four.

Speaker 2 My husband is a high school teacher making $56,000 a year and he works 10 to 15 hours a day. During the summer, he works a job where he only earns $1,000 a month.

Speaker 2 I understand he wants to make a difference in these young people's lives. However, we can't make ends meet.
I make all our meals from scratch to save money, but it isn't enough.

Speaker 2 We have $45,000 in consumer debt and we owe $80,000 on a HELI. We drive junker cars that are paid off.
My husband is very good at his job, but earns so little and has crappy benefits.

Speaker 2 They only cover his medical insurance, so the kids and I are on a separate health plan. If I got a job, my whole salary would go to daycare.

Speaker 2 I'm grateful for all the blessings God has given us, but today I felt something break inside and I don't know how to move forward. What do I do with the feelings of resentment that I have?

Speaker 1 That is a deep one.

Speaker 2 What do you think, Jade?

Speaker 1 You said it earlier, John, about math, not giving up. What about you, right?

Speaker 1 And I think this is one of those situations where

Speaker 1 There is a part of what we teach, which is this method for getting out of debt and finding financial peace, right? For those of you who are not familiar with it, it's the seven steps, baby steps.

Speaker 1 And the first three ones are like humdingers, right? Because it's you're kind of doing the scorched earth thing to get $1,000 saved. Then you're going, you know, balls to the wall.

Speaker 1 You're paying off your debt, except your mortgage. And then you're continuing that intensity to get three to six months of expenses saved.
Doing that would.

Speaker 1 give her peace like she's never experienced, right? With an $80,000 HELOC and $45,000 in consumer debt, that would give her what she's probably looking for.

Speaker 1 But in order to get to that would require deep sacrifice. And part of that deep sacrifice is

Speaker 1 not always doing the job that you ultimately want to end up at in order to get it done, right?

Speaker 1 There's part of this where you do a job, you might do a job because it earns you more money. You might do a job because it allows you the flexibility to do other jobs.

Speaker 1 You might do a job where you're working day and night, but it's only for a short period of time so you can get this done. So the sacrificial part of this is real.

Speaker 1 And that might be a very real part of your equation. If he's making 56,000, then you know, the two or three summer months, he's making another 3,000 combined.

Speaker 1 That's part of it. Now, if he's making 60,000 whole year combined in Nebraska, that's, I will also, on the other side of this, say that is

Speaker 1 median income.

Speaker 1 So there might be part of this. I think median income is like 67.

Speaker 1 But if you're at 60, you're, you're pretty much there. So there might be part of this.
She doesn't mention anything about the house.

Speaker 1 I don't know how much, you know, the house is taking up their money.

Speaker 2 Well, it sounds like they have two mortgages on it.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So that could be part of the problem.
I don't know, Hannah, but it's possible that your mortgage could be more than 25% of your take-home. And if that's the case, you will be feeling it.

Speaker 1 And then to her point,

Speaker 1 daycare is expensive. Okay.

Speaker 1 For one kid, my daughter, it's $1,400,

Speaker 1 $1,400 a month.

Speaker 1 And when my son was in, his was $1,200. Her place just went up and we actually put her in a different school once his was freed up.

Speaker 1 So the the idea that, okay, for her, she's got to take home at least 4,000 for her to feel like she's making money. Right.
And so for her, she's probably like, I don't know.

Speaker 1 So there, what I want to highlight here is

Speaker 1 as much as I love people to do work that they love. And as much as that's part of our heartbeat here, there is part of it where you go, okay, what can I do in the meantime?

Speaker 1 Maybe he goes back to being a teacher, but maybe for now he gets into a field. I don't know if there's one he can get into, but something where he makes more, or maybe he's tutoring for a while.

Speaker 1 There's got to be something else in addition to or pivot altogether.

Speaker 2 Here's my hot take.

Speaker 2 Teachers are number three on the millionaires in the United States, according to the Ramsey study that they did. Yeah.
Right.

Speaker 2 And when I dug into that, Dave and I have, have, have gone back and forth, and he talks a lot about teachers are, they're experts at making a plan and following it for an entire year.

Speaker 2 That's what they do, right? They make lesson plans. Having grown up, I mean, having been married to a, the person I married was an elementary school teacher.
That's what she was doing.

Speaker 2 I also got a ringside seat. She understood the world she entered, right? So she entered what I call a Corolla world.
That's what she expected to drive forever because she knew I want to do this thing.

Speaker 2 And so I'm going to build a life that requires, that, that, that can be, that I can live on on this salary. Yeah.
It's what I signed up for.

Speaker 2 I don't believe you have a right to quote unquote work your passion or quote unquote make a difference when you've made previous choices that put your family $125,000 in the hole.

Speaker 2 So I want there to be amazing teachers. We need amazing teachers.
And this husband has, this guy who works as a teacher making 56 grand made choices.

Speaker 2 And I'm blaming him. His wife may be fully on board with these.
Y'all made choices that said you can't work your passion right now because we owe everybody. Facts.
Right.

Speaker 2 And so when you get this 120 grand paid off, then you start having the passion conversation.

Speaker 2 I have this conversation with people who want to go be pastors and they have 100 grand coming out of seminary debt, student loan debt. You can't.

Speaker 2 You can't afford to quote unquote work at your mission church because before you chose your quote unquote mission, you told a bank, hey, if y'all guys will pay for me to go to school, I'll pay y'all back when I get out.

Speaker 2 And you can't afford to on this on this quote unquote mission salary.

Speaker 2 Social workers in my world,

Speaker 2 new therapists, if you go to some fancy school and take out 200 grand of loans, you can't go be a therapist working with the least of these in our communities, which we desperately need because you've taken so much money out beforehand.

Speaker 2 And so that's number one. Number two, Hannah has,

Speaker 2 I think she has either ordered.

Speaker 2 And so, meaning I either work full-time and my salary doesn't do anything or I have to stay at home and not make any money. That's not true.
I've got some friends.

Speaker 2 One of my closest friends in the world, he is a school teacher teacher and he's also a writer, an amazing family.

Speaker 2 And his wife stays at home with kids and she keeps three or four or five or six or seven other kids. And they are both exhausted when they go to bed at night, but they make it work.

Speaker 2 Well, that's the thing.

Speaker 1 These are only, this is not the way you live your life for the rest of your life. This is a short-term sacrifice for a long-term goal.

Speaker 1 So, if even if you're a stay-at-home mom, there is something you can do. And to your point, you're going to be exhausted.
Like, your eyes are going to be bleary. There's no getting around that.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I also want to add to this: an $80,000 HELOC, typically it's not one spouse that makes that choice.

Speaker 2 That's right. That's right.
It's unfair to dump all this on him.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And so now the thousand dollars a month in the summertime, that ain't going to cut it.
Like you just, there's got to be more to this. And I, I feel like, I don't know what it is, John.

Speaker 1 I feel like more and more, um, I don't know if it's just the way of the world or like culture right now, but I feel like more and more when we tell people you've got to grind it out, there's just kind of like this scoff of like, that's not possible.

Speaker 1 or are you kidding have you seen my life or it's there's just kind of this part of it where they think we're not being serious like are you are you really

Speaker 2 where it's frustrating is you and i both i don't want to make it about us but we've both been to the grind it out yeah you know what i mean and it's a real it's a real place it's it's a real frustrating frustrating rage inducing place but it's the it's the jet fuel that gets you to that next line right yeah and i can't think of a conversation other than telling somebody that a loved one has passed away that I would want to have more than sitting down with this husband and father who's a great teacher and saying,

Speaker 2 the world needs you, but you made choices together with your wife before today.

Speaker 2 And so

Speaker 2 as Paul Thomas Anderson once said, you may be through with the past, the past ain't through with you.

Speaker 2 And so you're going to have to either stop working 15 hours a day, you're going to have to move into administration like tomorrow and double your salary, or you're going to have to work three jobs in the summer until you get this stuff paid off.

Speaker 2 Yeah, man, we know.

Speaker 2 That's the choice. There's no getting around it.
It's math.

Speaker 1 I want to know where the real ones are out there who are willing to be a one-car family and grind it out for a year. I want to know the folks who are willing to sell their beloved televisions and

Speaker 1 their big sectional couches and really make deep sacrifices, who are willing to work and work and work some more to make deep sacrifices.

Speaker 1 You have a call center job, you have your nine-to-five job, and you sell cookies on the side.

Speaker 1 I want to know where those folks are because those are the folks who are getting out of debt and they're doing it quickly. This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 You're listening to The Ramsey Show on the Ramsey Network. And hey, just a reminder, the next hour of the show, if you want to catch it, you'll have to go on to the Ramsey Network app.

Speaker 1 You'll be able to see all three hours of the show on the app. And I like it because there's not as many interruptions.
It's uninterrupted Ramsey stuff.

Speaker 2 That's when James Childs gets off the rails in the Ramsey Network app. It's worth checking out.
All right, let's take a call.

Speaker 1 Let's go to Deborah. She's in Phoenix, Arizona.
What's going on, Deborah?

Speaker 5 Hello there. Thanks for taking my call.

Speaker 1 You bet. How can we help?

Speaker 5 So I'm 56, and my husband just passed away on the 29th, so two weeks ago.

Speaker 2 I'm so sorry. What was his name?

Speaker 5 Chet.

Speaker 2 Chet. Awesome guy.

Speaker 4 yep

Speaker 5 kind of amazing he was a pastor uh he was 69 i'm 56 so 12 and a half years difference

Speaker 2 yeah pretty amazing i'm so sorry thank you

Speaker 2 long time coming or was it pretty sudden

Speaker 5 um we just discovered this cancer about two and a half years ago

Speaker 5 And just the last three weeks, something happened real fast. And so it's probably an answer to prayer that we didn't want him to suffer and for him to go fast.
And so that's what happened.

Speaker 1 I'm so sorry. That's tough.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Thank you.
I'm so sorry.

Speaker 2 Are you still waking up every day unable to catch your breath? Or has the sun come back out? Like, where are you right now?

Speaker 5 Yeah, getting out of bed before 9 a.m. is a chore.

Speaker 5 And then trying to quiet my mind at night is hard.

Speaker 5 My son, he's here right now, but he's getting ready to leave today. So I'll I'll be by myself.
So those quiet mornings and evenings are going to be very loud very soon.

Speaker 2 Do you have some friends that can come hang out with you?

Speaker 5 I do. I live in an active adult community,

Speaker 5 and this community is like nothing I've ever experienced. Yeah, so they're just waiting for me to leave the bubble so they can imitate me with love.

Speaker 2 That's fantastic. So two things before we even got to your question yet, but

Speaker 2 if you don't want to get out of bed, you're not broken. Totally normal, okay?

Speaker 2 Thank you. And if you're laying in bed and every

Speaker 2 one like thing I should have said, should have done,

Speaker 2 I wonder if

Speaker 2 every worry you have 30 years from all that, totally normal, you're not broken. Okay.

Speaker 2 It knows. You're not crazy.
And

Speaker 2 if you want to do one brave and courageous thing that will pay astronomical dividends five years from now, Text a couple of your girlfriends and commit to one morning a week getting up at seven o'clock and going to have coffee.

Speaker 2 Okay. Okay.
Just something that you need to look forward to and plan forward.

Speaker 2 And that's not an everyday thing.

Speaker 2 Every day is too much right now, but putting one of those on the calendar, two of those on the calendar, will A, give your friends something to do so they're not just sitting there on your front porch like vultures.

Speaker 2 Like, what do we do? What do we do? But also.

Speaker 2 Even though you're going to go to bed at night, the night before, be so annoyed that this is on the calendar. I don't want to go.
I don't want to go.

Speaker 2 But if you get up and go five years from now, it will pay off in a pretty remarkable way okay

Speaker 2 okay i'm so sorry for your loss so how can we help you today

Speaker 5 um yeah so

Speaker 5 oh my gosh he was the only thing he left me with was a big giant bucket of love um

Speaker 2 that's the nicest way i've ever heard that said on the show

Speaker 5 um So no retirement, no

Speaker 5 life insurance, no savings, no,

Speaker 5 I mean, I was even joking with everybody, my family, it's like, oh my gosh, I was going to send a thank you card out and I don't even have stamps. I'm like, I don't even have stamps.
So

Speaker 5 he had a brain aneurysm 12 years ago. And so nobody would insure him for life insurance.

Speaker 5 And this is how this whole thing started was me, you know, harping on him to try to at least get some sort of life insurance because I just had a feeling he was not going to live long.

Speaker 5 And that's when somebody came to the house to do the physical and they said,

Speaker 5 your numbers are too elevated. And And so, we had no idea what that meant.
And then we found out he had cancer.

Speaker 5 So, no life insurance, except for an $8,000 policy, which is going to take care of the two services, one here in Arizona and one in Washington that I have to do. And it's going to eat that up.
So,

Speaker 5 I just don't have any other resources financially. I am a self-employed realtor.
Okay.

Speaker 5 And I do okay.

Speaker 2 I do. Yeah, well, the last few years have been brutal.

Speaker 4 Oh, it's been awful. Yeah.

Speaker 2 It's been awesome. Also, can I go back to something you said? If you can't afford to do two services, you don't need two services.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 And I know you think you have to, and people are expecting, they don't get a vote right now because you are in an existential moment. Okay.

Speaker 5 And there's going to be... Somebody has sent us money for that.

Speaker 2 Okay, good, good, good, good. Okay.

Speaker 2 So how are you paying your bills right now? How are you keeping your four walls up?

Speaker 5 With my career in real estate.

Speaker 2 Do you have enough money to do that?

Speaker 4 Yes.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 What do you earn from real estate? What's like a good year for you or a monthly lookup take home for you?

Speaker 5 Oh, probably about $160.

Speaker 4 Okay.

Speaker 1 And you're pretty consistent throughout the year.

Speaker 2 Yeah, even in the last few years?

Speaker 5 Yeah, it has grown the last couple of years. And I've turned my business into an LLC.

Speaker 2 Amazing. Good for you.

Speaker 5 Good for you. And I have a trust.
So it's all buttoned up in there.

Speaker 1 What's What's your biggest concern right now, financially?

Speaker 5 Retirement.

Speaker 5 Retirement, not that I am going to retire anytime soon, but I just need to better position myself because I live in a community where there's unlimited resources that everybody has.

Speaker 5 They're living their best lives. This is the last chapter in everybody's lives.

Speaker 5 And I am lucky to live here. I feel very fortunate to live here, but I don't have unlimited resources.

Speaker 2 Can you afford to live there? Yeah, can you afford to live there?

Speaker 5 I can because my rate's 3.5, and I can't imagine going anywhere else unless it's somewhere in Kenbuck to the 10th.

Speaker 2 Let's look at this. Let's look at $3.5 on $5 million is still a ton of money, right? Even if it's a great deal.

Speaker 1 Let's look at it as a whole because you said you kind of spoke about it. My husband didn't leave me.
Retirement, there's no savings. Did you have anything set aside? I'm just wondering.

Speaker 1 I don't know how you guys managed your finances. If it was separate, if it was together, is there any saving? Do you have any savings to your name, basically, is my question?

Speaker 5 Yeah, so I do have the six months,

Speaker 5 but it's just sitting in a safe, you know, it's just in our house. And it's like, okay, well, that's not growing me any money.

Speaker 5 So I'm just trying to, and I also have some in the savings at Wells Fargo, you know, so those are not going to, there's no ROI there.

Speaker 1 So tell me the

Speaker 1 amount. You've got your emergency fund.
How much is in that? That's just in the safe

Speaker 5 20.

Speaker 1 Okay. And then you've got the other savings.
What's in that?

Speaker 5 30.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 And then anything else I need to know about?

Speaker 5 We have some

Speaker 5 SEP individual retirement funds,

Speaker 5 just like 16 per person, so for he and I. So another 32 there.

Speaker 2 Okay. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So let me see if I can put your mind at ease here. I'm always trying to do the calculators to find out.
So, oh, one other thing before I do this. So tell me about your house.

Speaker 1 Tell me what you owe on it and what it's worth and what you pay every month.

Speaker 5 So we owe 303.

Speaker 5 The payment each month is 2014, and I pay an extra $225,000. So

Speaker 5 it's cutting off almost five and a half years of the 30 years plus $35,000 is what I'm cutting off by doing the extra $225,000 a month.

Speaker 1 Okay, good. So I like that

Speaker 1 you're walking the steps. The only thing I'm wondering is if you're putting away 15% of your income currently, because you told me you have the emergency fund six months, love it.

Speaker 1 It's perfect where it is in the save. The next step would be for you to be putting away 15% of your income, and you're already doing extra on your mortgage, which is really, really good.

Speaker 1 So as long as you're doing the 15%, are you?

Speaker 5 I don't think so. I'm not tracking it very well if I am.

Speaker 5 I'm trying to tithe and just, and yeah, I haven't had to worry about the finances because my husband, you know, was bringing in an extra $5,000 a month, which was our overhead.

Speaker 5 And so I felt like anything I was bringing in was just extra.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 5 I'm not really policing it or watching it.

Speaker 1 So here's what I would do if I were you.

Speaker 1 I love that you're paying extra towards the mortgage. I think that's exactly right.

Speaker 1 If you can get and start putting $1,900 a month into retirement, because you have it, if you're really earning $13,000 a month, which you say is pretty accurate for you,

Speaker 1 if you start putting away 15%, right now you said you're 56.

Speaker 4 Yes.

Speaker 1 Okay. By age 70, that's going to grow to $838,000, just that.

Speaker 1 So that's a good move. That's if you do nothing else different,

Speaker 1 okay.

Speaker 1 And the idea is you're already working to pay off your home, which is what you need to continue to do.

Speaker 1 So, if you continue to do that, your income continues to go up because you're still young, you're 56, you're not going anywhere. You keep working this real estate thing.

Speaker 1 I think you're going to be okay. For you, it's just getting in the habit of saying, What I do with intentionally with my money does make a difference.
It's not extra, it's not gravy.

Speaker 1 And I think that you're going to make it, and I think you're going to be just fine. Give us a call if you need any more help.
This is the Ramsey Show.