Be Prepared: Math Doesn’t Care About Your Life Situations

from the Ramsey network. It's the Ramsey show.
I'm Jade Warshaw next to me. My good buddy, Dr.
John Deloney. We're taking your calls all hour long, your life, your money, your relationships, your career, all of it.

We'll talk about it. The call is a free call.

Triple eight, eight, two, five, five, two, two, five is what gets you on.

Remember, this is a live show and we want to hear from you.

All right, John, let's go straight to the phone lines.

We got Nicholas, Boston, Massachusetts.

What's going on, Nick?

How are you doing good? How can we help?

So, yeah, I just wanted to, you know, first first i appreciate you guys uh you know putting me on um but i wanted to just kind of you know put my situation out there um in 2020 i'm a small business owner uh in 2020 uh we had a great year we're a fence installation company now we were doing really really really great around the time 2020 into 2021. At that time, my wife had an affair.
I was working probably 50 to 60 hours a week just because I had to keep up with the demand for the business at the time. After that, you know, that hit me mentally and going into a divorce process, it killed me financially.
And I've just not been able to recover. It's just been a tough few years.
The business, since that peak, it was kind of like almost like a peak in 2020 into 2021 with the work. The business slowed down after.
I don't know if it's partially due to the economy or just my state in general of, you know, pushing forward, lack of funds for the business and so on.

But just been a struggle since that time.

So, man, sorry, brother.

No, it's all right.

And, you know, with, you know, pre-divorce around 2020,

I had six figures in the bank.

I only had my mortgage, which is $1,400,

which in Massachusetts is you can't even rent for $1,400. There's nothing for the mortgage.
There's nothing. At the time, it was $1,250.
But during the divorce, I had to refinance, so it went up to almost $1,500. But, I mean, all my money got drained.
She spent $72,000 in 2020, the year of the divorce. She just kind of drained the accounts and left

me with that. And then the tax liability, I got into, I'm in huge tax troubles.
I owe six figures

to the government and then 30,000 to the state. And I'm just kind of lost.

Well, let me, you and me and Jade could talk for a long, long time. And Jade's can walk you through the numbers part because there's a there's a mathematical path out of this yeah yeah but in the in the first two minutes we've talked you've mentioned 2020 i've lost count yeah and what that tells me is you're living in the past yeah yeah and you've got one if not both feet still in 2020 2021 even 2022 and some of that's hurt some of that is you probably got a lot of um esteem yeah out of making that kind of money and having that kind of false security in a bank account that you somehow that that translated into what you were worth yeah not, yeah.
Not just financially, but emotionally, spiritually, relationally. Yeah, yeah.
And it's 2025. Yeah, oh yeah.
And so you won't get one step of healing moving forward until you decide to not mention your ex-wife again. She's gone, man.
Yeah, yeah. Until you stop blaming her for your current tax liabilities until you say okay here's i'm gonna stand up in 2025 i'm clearly good at what i do i've been successful in the past i will be successful again in the future and i've got a mess i gotta clean up yeah you get what i'm saying no definitely definitely and and there's a whole nother part of this which is like i'm trying to push through um i i got two young children you know five and six years old and i'm with them 60 percent of time paying you know paying the you know 400 week in support is it's just kind of it is what it is i don't have an issue with the support i don't have an issue with the support or It's just, I'm not, you know, I feel like I'm pushing myself further into that because I'm trying to give them everything they need.
So my credit, my personal credit cards along with the business, I mean, everything's, everything's just, you know. Hold on, you're not trying to give them everything they need.
You're trying to give them everything so that you don't feel so bad. Yeah, yeah.
Because what they really want is their old man. Yeah.
And going out this weekend boston and throwing snow at each other and digging a hole and playing in the mud costs zero dollars and they'll tell that story at your funeral yeah so again don't blame them for your debt problems yeah it sucks it is what it is you got taken to the cleaners in court you did and now it's 2025 yeah so my question to you is like direct and this is just me just talking to a man that i love okay is 2025 going to be the year that you say enough i'm gonna look in the mirror and i'm gonna take ownership of this stuff and get it knocked out yeah is it is this the year because if not then we can take another call yeah because can i ask a a fair question i think is fair did you get taken to the cleaners or was it just divided 50-50 and it just got split? No, no, no. I got destroyed.
How? Why? Yeah. How and why? Just my lawyer, the representation during it, there was just a lot of things that just did not go my way.
And I was not in a mental state. So at some point after them just coming at me and coming at me with demands

and demands, I just wanted it done with. So I said, all right, that's it.

You know, I agree on this and let's move forward.

So tell me, tell me, I'm going to be honest with you flat out.

I think this is,

this call is more about what's happening inside of you than what's happening

with your money. Just from the way you sound,

you sound like you are just a chicken with its head cut off.

And like John said, we can talk for a long time.

If you want to give me some real numbers and and and we can walk through this financially tell me now tell me now what you're earning and is it from your business or did you get a new job no I still I'm still running we're still running the business okay do you want to hear my personals if you want to just want to know your, I just want to know your payment. Like what do you pay yourself every month? What do you bring home every month? Yeah.
So, I mean, I mean, weekly, my, my weekly check is like 12, uh, 1200 a week. So, and that's like clockwork.
Yep. Yep.
But, but then you gotta, you know, right now is our slow season. So there's going to be a couple of weeks where I'm not taking a check.
And then you have a subtract and, you know, 387 and support.

No, I just want to know your money. If you, I want to know,

what does Nick bring home? Does he bring home 4,800 a month? Is that right?

Yeah. Yeah.
1198 a week. Yeah.
Okay. And then tell me your total debt.

Personal or with the business included? It's all the same, but tell me personal first, just for the purposes of this call. Yep.
So I got the vehicle, the home, and about $8,000 in credit card debt. Okay.
So credit cards are $8,000. How much on the car? $20,000 owed.
Okay. And the house? $200,000.
And you told me you're paying $1,500 a month now. Is that right? Yeah.
It's a little under that. It's like $1,400 and change.
Okay. Fine.
So the car, what's the car worth? It's $20,000. What's it worth? Yeah.
It's worth, yeah. Last time I checked, it worth 14.
Okay. Now with your line of work, is it I do more, I can do more work and make more money? Is it just as simple as that? What's stopping you from doing more? Yeah, so, um, well, there's, uh, we, the work's always been there.
I never paid for advertising, uh, with the work. We've always been very busy.
Last year was very slow. I put $14,000 over the year into a marketing agency and just it was a well-known market market.
Let me give you the quick equation. The way that you get out of debt quickly is you increase your income and decrease your expenses.
That is the simple solution to getting more money to throw it at your debt. And that's all it is.

Listen, you've got two debts.

You owe $28,000.

I know that you lost a lot of money in this process, but the truth is right now, your debt isn't all that scary.

If you called in here telling me you had $500,000, and maybe with the business it is that much,

but let's focus on that, quote, personal debt first.

Use the debt snowball and pay it off.

And then you can call in again and let's talk about this business and if it's worth keeping. This is The Ramsey Show.
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You're listening to The Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw.
Dr. John Deloney sits beside me today.
Hey, if you're ready to the ramsey show i'm jade warshaw dr john deloney sits beside me today hey if you're ready to get your finances in order once and for all in 2025 i've got just the thing for you hey we're doing this free live stream it's january 23rd uh it's take control of your money so if you're a person who's been living paycheck to paycheck if you're a person who's constantly overdrawn if you're a person who feels like they just can't seem to get ahead no matter what, right? Two steps forward, one step backwards. This is for you.
It's going to be myself and Dave Ramsey. We're going to take the stage.
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And finally, really just get ahead with your money. That's what all of us want, right? Later on in the evening, Rachel Cruz and George Camel are also going to join us.
We're going to do a Q&A. This is about everything, not just your budget.
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You can click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. I want to see you there.
I don't want to hear any more excuses. You need to be on this live stream.
And few things in the world do I love more than taking Dave Ramsey's money. Yeah.
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yeah if nothing else just sign up for that okay i'll see you there yeah get that money i'll see you there remember it's 7 p.m central time so do the math and you figure out the time zones all right roger's in kansas city missouri what's up roger hey can you hear me i can what's up thank you for taking my call, so last year, uh, our son had some really bad asthma and then he did, he underwent a procedure that ended him in the ICU for three weeks. He was in the ventilator and he was, he wasn't breathing on his own yet.
He was heavily medicated. How's he doing now? And he's doing a lot better now.
Thank God.

Awesome. He's a lot, a lot better.
Yeah. And during that three weeks, almost a month, you know, I wasn't, I wasn't working and we had some credit cards.
So we kind of just started putting everything on those credit cards and kind of accumulated quite a bit of debt because of that situation that we had going on. How much? We did it's about like 11,000 plus some student loans that I recently got because I recently went back to school.
Okay how much was the student loans and how much was the medical debt? The medical the medical debt was actually covered by insurance. Okay.

I was going to say, there's no way he got up for $12,000 for a month in ICU.

I mean, were you on the hook for the deductible?

No, I think his insurance actually covered everything.

Everything.

Okay.

It's just that the personal, like our bills and our food,

we had two other daughters that we didn't see for those three weeks okay so the debt you racked up was just we've got a son in the hospital we need child care we need food we need somebody help clean it like that kind of stuff it wasn't the actual medical bills yeah okay so you said about 11k yeah about 11 12 000 and and i just i just can't seem to get out of it like i just keep seeing that's minimum payments and minimum payments i'm just trying to see what we can do to make sure that gets out the way or we just get it out the way quicker can can i ask a question and i'm i'm just i'm not trying to take you to task i'm just trying to understand did you say it was three weeks in in the hospital yes and what that he was he was asleep okay that he was asleep got you and 11 000 and just meals and child care well credit card they're like yeah like bills and stuff like that we still had to cover our bills so we just ended up putting it on credit cards okay so okay got it and is that

what you would typically spend in a month three thousand eleven thousand or how far off your

normal budget is that um it's it's a little extra because it was already there was already some

balance on those cards okay we kind of just did it over the edge you know got it and you said

there's some student loans too how much is that oh those are new those are like i'd say like

Thank you. Kind of just did it over the edge, you know.
Got it. And you said there's some student loans too.
How much is that? Those are new. Those are like, I'd say like 30.
Okay. 30,000.
And you're continuing to take those out or have you said no more? No, well, it was on, everything's already paid. It was like a course it was already paid for.
So I don't owe anything above that. Okay.
So we've got the $41,000 in debt. And can you tell me a little bit more about you guys' income? Yeah, I'm the only one that works.
My wife stays at home with the kids. I bring in about like $57,000.
That's what I brought in last year. Okay, can you tell me what that sounds like every month? Like what's your paycheck every single month or total every month? About like $4,000.
Okay. Okay.
Can you tell me what that sounds like every month? Like what's your paycheck every single month or total every month? About like 4,000. Okay.
Okay. So what sounds like here is you guys had a crisis.
You had something really scary happen and it's, I don't know, John, I want to say it's kind of normal that sometimes we go into that mode where it's like whatever you have. It's almost like you have bigger fish to so you're not thinking about every time you swipe the card right you're just trying to be there who cares yeah order the food who cares you know get the get the sitter right and so it sounds like you went overboard a little bit um but i have i have i'm thinking that most of that debt was already there um based on what you were saying the money was for um and then you turn around and you did 30,000 in student loans.
So did the 30,000 in student loans, how does that ROI for you, what did it do for you? Because you said you took a course. Yeah, that's recent.
It's just on us now. I've only been in school for like four months.
Right, right, right. But I'm saying, I'm saying, is that to get you, what was the purpose of that? Is it to get your income up? Tell me more about where that's going to lead you to.
Oh, yeah. It was to get a course to start working in, it's for IT cybersecurity career.
Okay. And when do you start that? Hopefully that'll, in April.
Okay. And what will you be making when you get to that?

They said anywhere between like $60 to like $80 starting.

Nice.

And then it just goes up. Hold on, do you have an actual job or is that with whoever you bought this $30,000 course for, by the way,

which you probably could have taken for $850 at a local community college,

are they the ones telling you that starting salary start at $6580,000, or do you have a job in hand? That's kind of what they're guessing. Bro, town, and mo- Dude, you can't listen to what they're saying, man.
They're just selling you a marketing message. You got to get on the horn and try to get jobs.
Right. What they're doing is taking an aggregate of potential, those who did get a job, which doesn't count any of the people who didn't get jobs with the certificate.
This is an approximate of what some of those people have made. That's not what your salary is.
That's kind of what the job, the jobs, the job listings, that's what they're saying. Okay.
For the field, for the IT field. Can I run it back a little bit more? Because we don't have a whole lot of time on this call.
And I want to give you something to think about when you leave here. Do you want to know what I, I'm just, this is one woman's opinion.
I think that the deal happened with your son and it scared you. But I don't think that's what's responsible for this financial situation.

I think most of what was on your credit cards was there already. And yeah, you may have added a little bit to it, but I think that that was mostly there.
I also think that these student loans are what's really eating your lunch right now. And so coming off of one crisis with your son and then feeling the crisis of this financial situation, I think is what's got you in a tizzy, but truly I don't think one has too much to do with the other.

The key here is the $4,000. You mentioned your wife's home with the kids.
Is there any way that she can pick up some part-time work as well? Because I think that you've got to get a second job because of this course. If you got this course, now it's like, okay, I have to make this thing worth it.
And I have to figure out when did I when do I say that it's going to ROI and when do I say it's going to pay itself off right and you can't be waiting around for you know two three years to pay this thing back you've got to get on like John said get on the horn now and get this thing paid off and truly cut up the credit cards so before you get off the line um Christian's going to pick up over there and we're going to get you every dollar. We're going to let you try out the premium version for a while because in order to do this, you're going to have to know where every single dollar is going.
Now's not the time to be playing, you know, pity, pity, patty and patty cake with your dollars. You got to know where everything's going because on a $4,000 monthly income, you're going to have to be very intentional to get this paid off quickly.
But we're going to help you do it. This is The Ramsey Show.
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It's me, Jade Warshaw, next to my good buddy, Dr. John Deloney, host of The Dr.
John Deloney Show, taking your calls all hour long. Remember, it's a live show, so if you want to get on, the number is 888-825-5225.
We'll get you on. We'll talk about your life, your money.
Listen, we can talk about anything you want to talk about as long as it relates. I got an opinion on lots of stuff.
Tell me one. Give me a hot take right on the spot.
Come on, John. The hottest take of 2025 thus far.
I got two of them. One with that last call.
And we can get into that if you want to. Let's get in.
I'm gonna get myself canceled. But the second hot take of 2025, I love bearded James Child.
I was gonna say a James Child's hot take. I was gonna say, give me a James Child's without a hat.
Come on. It's like a new man.
It's a different man. He has been a hat wearer and like super everyday.
He shaves. And now he's like band Kota Glow is crushing and he's just like I'm gonna own yeah the rugged like he stepped out from behind you know he's like the guy that sits in the back he stepped out and said here I am yeah how do you like this world yes yes yeah so that's hot take that's hot take number two hot take number one is My guy, Nicholas.
Yeah. So that's hot take.
That's hot take number two. Hot take number one is.

My guy, Nicholas.

Yeah.

The last caller.

So this is an unpopular thought.

That particular guy, his kid had an asthma attack.

Yes. Really got sick.

Super scary.

Yeah.

Very, very scary situation.

He's the only breadwinner.

His wife stays at home with kids.

Kid goes to ICU for three weeks. Yes.
He doesn't go back to work. He stays in the hospital for three weeks with his wife and they've got two little kids and they racked up a jillion dollars in credit card debt.
Theoretically. Theoretically.
And then while he was there it sounded like he decided to sign up for a $30,000, um, cybersecurity course. Right.
My hot take is being able to knock off three weeks of work with no income, no way to pay your bills. And it is in many ways, it's two different choices.
One, I'm always going to be with my kid no matter what end of story end of time i get that and my two kids are my entire world i get it yeah yeah and also you are making a choice to set your house up for the next however many years with this with electricity and angst and misery because you just start swiping that credit card on everything. And then you decide, well, I'm just going to get another, I need to get another job.
So I'm going to trust some, the back of a brochure for some for-profit certificate program that I found online. That's got, right.
Yeah. Fly by night nonsense.
So my hot take is you math doesn't care about your situation man what and so this is one of those reasons why we preach so much don't owe anybody any money drive a crappy corolla work two jobs to get out of debt not if but when one of your kids gets sick one of your relatives passes away. I wrote about a book like the greatest

blessing following the Ramsey plan has

been for me and my wife,

besides just the peace in our house was two years ago when one of my favorite

people on the planet,

one of my cousins just suddenly died.

I didn't have to look.

We,

I booked a hotel.

I didn't have to sleep under an aunt's kitchen table,

right?

On a pallet of some sort. And we got plane tickets and we went down and we got the privilege of just being sad.
Math doesn't care. And so if you are the main breadwinner, somebody's got to keep working, right? And that's one of those awful, like Sophie's Choice kind of responsibilities, I think, especially falls on dads when you're the breadwinner.

It comes those moments when

okay, mom's going to sit in the hospital and right when

work's over, you're coming there, you're going to spend the night

there, you're going to sleep there, you're going to get up at 530 in the

morning, you're going to get up and you're going to go back to work

because somebody's got to keep the lights on

at the house for the other kids and for that family.

And so I know we live in a world

where we are yanked around by

how our kids feel and how we feel about our kids. I want this kind of special dog.
All right, we'll get more dogs. I want to play these sports.
We're going to play those sports. I got on the travel team.
We're going to go over. And I think that letting our kids be the center of our universes, A, our kids can't carry that weight.
They can't carry it. And B, our houses are falling apart around that worship of our kids.
Somebody's got to keep the lights on. That's a really good point.
And it is a hot take because the truth is when somebody starts talking about their kids, somebody in the hospital, it's like, okay, free pass, right? We automatically kind of want to slide. Math doesn't count.
Bills don't count. The world doesn't count.
But what I hope is, and Nicholas, if you're still listening, we're not picking on you. What I hope is that you take away from this.
This is what we would call around here an I've had it moment. It should be.
And it's what I'd call an I've had it moment because the truth is, and I'll try to talk about it from a personal point of view so it doesn't sound like we're harping on you because we're not trying to paint you into a bad guy, but we want this to be a moment where you pivot and change. If you say the problem was my kid got sick and went to the hospital.
If we say the problem was,

let's take it down on a lower level. The problem was I lost my job and now here we are.
The problem

was my husband overdrew the checking account and now here we are. Those are just symptoms.

Those are not the real problem. And this is why we teach what we teach.
The real problem is the wind blew and I had a house made of straw. That's the real problem, right? And so if we can get above it and go, all right, I don't want to be in this situation ever again, that's when real change can happen.
I remember this was years ago. Sam and I were paying off in the midst of paying off our debt.
We had $460 to pay off. And I remember we were still trying to figure out budgeting, still trying to figure out.
And we had no money. And so my sister ended up having a medical emergency in Orlando.
Orlando's like two and a half hours from where I lived. She was in the hospital.
And I'm thinking, all right, I'm going to go see her. I had no money, no extra gas money.
Cause when your budget is like tight to the wire, no extra gas money, nothing. And I remember being like, oh my gosh, I'm going to have to call my parents and ask them for money because I'm not putting on a credit card.
I'm not doing any of this. And that was such a, oh my gosh, A, swallow my pride moment.
B, am I going to make the choice that's going to drive us further into debt? And C, also, I never want to be in this situation ever again. So what do I have to fix? I can't blame it on my sister.
Be like, man, she was in debt. And it was because that happened.
I have to go, what part am I playing in this? And yes, sucky stuff happens and it comes out of the blue and it's painful. But if I don't look at where I set myself up and what I did, does that make sense? I remember being a dean of students and I got real sick.
I remember throwing up blood. And I remember I don't even have enough room on a credit card to go to the ER.
And I had to call my buddy Todd and say, I think I got to go to the emergency room. Can I borrow your credit card? And blinking he said i got you to me to drive you and i said give me another hour and i ended up feeling a little bit better a little bit better but in that moment of being real sick i remember never again well i and here's how i thought about it i'll never put a friend in that position again yeah that a buddy's gonna call him that i've taken so little care of my household that um this is the situation i'm in because i can't control spending or i want to go out on the weekends or me and my wife deserve to go out to eat but if you had said if you had walked away from that and said okay it got it got taken care of that's right somehow it came to it always comes together or i just showed up at the er and we'll pay the bills later right right which we can it's so easy for us to do well.
It worked out. I guess everything's fine.
And then you just go back about life as it was. You've got to use these as the catalyst that they are to really change and dial in.
And as we look at the systems that we are all accustomed to, we're starting to see the cracks. They're not always just going to work out.
That's right. They're not always just going to work out that's right they're not always just going to work out and i'm i'm convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that these big systemic cracks like it's not just gonna work it's it's not going to get fixed at the system level it's going to get fixed with people in their household say as for me and my house no more i never want to call my mom again and say can i borrow gas to go see my sister i never want to call my buddy and say can i can I borrow gas to go see my sister? I never want to call my buddy and say, can I borrow your credit card? I don't even have enough room on, a bank won't even loan me the money to go to the ER.
Much less have it on my checking account, right? I have to be done with this. Do you want to know what really got me? One time, this was long before I worked here.
This was during 2008. So it was the Great Recession.
Everybody's calling into the show, talking to Dave about, I'm losing my house. Dave is sitting here going, well, I've purchased more real estate than I've ever purchased.
And he said, you want to get to the point that when there's a storm, you can fly above it. And I remember sitting in my car with my $400,000 of debt being so jealous, but also so like, yes, Dave,

like that.

The next time it pours, the next time it rains, the next time the fire comes, my house is

going to be prepared.

And you want to know when the next time it happened?

2020.

And you want to know what?

We were ready.

The folk were prepared.

And that's what I'm saying, guys.

It will storm.

It will rain. This is your chance.
This is your call. Be prepared.
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I'm curious. Somebody's going to say something about man.
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They're going to be like, never wear those glasses. That wig was weird.
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West Palm Beach, Florida. Love it.
What's going on, Brad? Hey, Dr. John.
Thank you guys so much for taking my call. And thanks to Dave Ramsey for helping make us financially independent, my wife and I.
We are moving into, let's call it a semi-retirement modality of life.

And as part of that move, we moved down to South Florida, where I used to live, to be

close to our parents.

And it has turned into an emotionally very difficult experience for me.

We actually bought our house.

We moved down here, bought a house, put it on the market after two months, sold it. We're now kind of in rental mode and we're considering moving up north, kind of where we had some original desire to move to.
And I feel like I'm kind of trapped in this loop where I cannot convince myself that it's okay to do this. I feel guilty about it.
What's the anchor, brother? My parents are here.

My wife's parents are here. They're pretty much independent.
They're all independent. My mother, she does rely on us financially.
And I help her out around the house. She needs help around the house from time to time.
Why was it so emotionally and psychologically draining? um

I had to

you know for a long time I wanted to

do time and time. Why was it so emotionally and psychologically draining? I had to, you know, for a long time, I wanted to do, but move back here.
You know, I grew up not with a lot of money, went off, you know, made money, became, you know, financially successful and had a dream to come back here and do all these things I used to do that I couldn't do when I was a kid. And then over the years, I just kind of grew out of that need to do that and just kind of fell in love with the Northeast and Maine and Portland and that area.
So this is an old dream. You cashed in on an old dream.
That's right. Yeah, I mean, it's an old dream.
And living here when I was a kid was not pleasant for me for a lot of reasons. Part of it is just a lot of emotional baggage, a lot of things I kind of do and see around here that kind of remind me of stuff I don't want to rewind enough.
So are you feeling guilty about moving just because you've... Leaving the parents.
Yeah, leaving the parents. Especially my mom who's...
How old is she? She's 77, 78 now. You said they're independent? Yeah.
Well, yeah, so there's three sets of parents here. My wife's parents have now moved to the same town that my parents are living in.
They're here. They're totally independent.
My father is living here. He has Parkinson's now, but he's independent.
He has a wife he's being taken care of and he's healthy. Mentally, he's fine.
And then my mom is living by herself alone in a house that I grew up with as a kid. So this is, and then where your place was, did you move into that same hometown or were you kind of an hour away? What did you guys do? No, I am.
We're in the same town, the same hometown. Yeah, we're five, three, four miles away from them.
Listen, I'm going to commiserate with you for a minute because there's part of this that I understand. When Sam and I took the job to come to Ramsey, I'd lived in Nashville before and it wasn't a great time for me.
That time in my life was not what I would call a great time. And so coming back, I was like, I'm not going to go and live in that part of town because I don't want to be passing by these types of, you know what I mean? Like those types of memories all the time.
So I almost wonder, there's two parts of this and John is going to be the expert, but part of me wonders if you're there for the right reasons, because if you're not, why stay? But if you decide that it is the right reason, what would it look like for you to be close to them, but not in your childhood city? You know what I mean? And not in the same place that you experienced whatever negative kind of vibe that you experienced before. We did move.
Go ahead. No, you go ahead.
You moved what? We did. So we did choose.
I did choose an area that I didn't really hang out on as a kid.

And so we are living somewhere that we actually both like the area as far as being here.

But, you know, and so that's helped some.

But I mean, this whole county was my stomping ground.

So it's not like, you know, and I know so.

I know Florida very well.

This is this is probably the best place in Florida to be, quite honestly.

If you're going to be here, this is where you want to be.

You can go further down and hit the Coral Springs area.

It's nice.

Yeah, and then it's more expensive.

You're not wrong.

Where did you move from?

So I spent the last 25 years in Atlanta, Georgia.

Four seasons, which we loved.

I just fell in love with four seasons.

Here's a couple of things.

I did the same thing.

I moved. My parents

are in their mid-70s.

And it was the right thing for me and my family.

And it's the worst.

It's worst

on guilt. It's worst on

I now have on the back of

a napkin

when I see them twice a year maybe right so i'm gonna see them 20 more times before they pass away that's the math right and so i had to make a choice to choose guilt over resentment if i stayed in that small town where they live i know i would i would dump all of my angst onto them and it's not

fair because it's not theirs it would have been mine but when i left i feel real guilty about it i do and it's hard to connect and i've lost we used to have walk in and out of each other's house like i'm that's gone now right now we have to make schedules a year out we're gonna try like It sucks.

It's the worst.

And so that's number one.

Number two, I was not, I did not anticipate moving halfway across the country that the person who would come with me was me. So all my insecurities, frustrations, childhood drama, all that crap came across the country with me.
So whatever you think you're running from, go with you to Oregon. And so Portland, Maine, or to Maine, wherever, wherever you're going to go.
Right. Yeah.
Yeah. It will go with you.
And so knowing that if you've got demons to work through, dude, work through your demons. Forget the geography.
You got to work through your childhood crap. And healing would be, can I drive through those old streets and remember that thing that happened and not have my body set off every alarm system it has as though I'm back to being nine years old again? That's healing.
And also, I don't want to live there, so I'm not going to live there. That's really it.
Right? You don't need some grand narrative as to say, I really want to live here.

But you are going to have to deal with the guilt part.

And that's just part of it.

And it's okay if your dream changes.

Like, it's okay if back in the day you were like, one of these days I'm going to go back to West Palm Beach and I'm going to do all the things that I couldn't do.

Like, if that was your dream at some point in life, but now here you are in your 40s or 50s, I don't know how old you are.

And you're like, who cares? I'm my own guy. I happy in my life i'm a north east coast guy now and that's who i am great yeah dreams change i was always gonna have this kind of car that would let me know dude i want an old pickup truck i'm gonna move home my life heck yeah right so the thing is is i want you to not outsource this angst onto them onto the geography instead i want this to be a decision you are choosing to make.
And that choice is going to come with some guilt, some awesomeness, some clarity, some frustration. It's going to come with all that stuff.
So it's about taking ownership of what you do next. You've sold your house.
You want to go. You're gone in your head.
You're just, your feet are stuck somewhere. Just go.
And by the way, in the same way that you bought a house and sold it in two months, you can go up to the northeast and realize, oh, this is a terrible mistake. I need to be back with my parents and come right back.
It just is what it is, man. You're free as a bird to do what you're going to do.
Just take ownership of the choices you're making in your life. Choose guilt over resentment.
Every time. Marinate on that until we see you next time on The Ramsey Show.
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It's free at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. From the Ramsey Network, it's the Ramsey Show.
I'm Jade Warshot. Next to me, my good buddy, Dr.
John Deloney. We're working together, taking your calls, your life, your money.
Give us a free call. Remember, it's a live show, so the number is 888-825-5225.
We'll get you in. Let's go directly to the phone lines.
I'm ready to just get into it. Let's go.
Let's go to Texas. Yeah.
Janie in Dallas, Texas. What's up, Janie? Hello.
My question is, I recently had a parent-in-law pass away, and I was informed and told that all the siblings had to come together to pay for the funeral. And while it was very sad what happened, they did leave property behind and vehicles, several properties as a matter of fact.
And so is it okay that I feel like this is not my obligation? Is there something wrong with that, with feeling that way? You can feel however you want to feel. Feelings are cool.
That doesn't make them true. Okay.
And it may have zero bearing on what actually happens. But yeah, feel however you want to feel.
Okay. I'm being made to feel like I'm a bad person because I don't want to help pay for a funeral that I know there's money there.
And it's, I guess it's just the principle of being told that I, you know, that we have to pay for the funeral. Who's making you feel bad, your spouse or the in-law siblings? My spouse.
Do y'all have the money? We do. Okay.
I want to know what John's going to say, but I want to know two things before he says it. Number one, how much? It was just under $3,000.
Per sibling? Like per sibling family? Correct. There's eight of them.
There's eight brothers and sisters? Mm-hmm. Yes.
So $24,000 for this funeral is what we're looking at? Correct. Okay.
Then the other part, and John's going to say what he's going to say. The other part, if I were in your shoes, this is the situation I'm thinking.
If I had, and I don't know what your relationship was with the in-laws, but if I had a poor relationship with my in-laws, if I didn't really have a relationship with them, I'd care two cents. And I'm finding out that our cut of the thing is 3000, which that's not the case, but I'm just saying my first inclination would be to say, well, how would I feel if it was reverse? And if it was my family, what would I, what is the treatment that I would hope from my spouse? So that's just kind of where my mind first goes, John.
Well, I think it's a hundred percent. If I was a guessing man, a betting man, I would bet you've been quote unquote told what y'all are going to do for holidays, for meals, for shopping, for how many presents you've been, you're tired of being told, huh? Correct.
Yes. And so it sounds like your feelings are your feelings.

You can have them all day long.

This is your husband's mom or your husband's dad.

Got it.

And if you got $3,000, you got it.

And if there's a whole bunch of property,

17 years after it's all been filtered through all eight siblings

and their spouses and their kids and ex-spouses and all that,

you'll get your $3,000 back.

Got it. I mean, if you were telling me, Hey, this is going to put us on the street and my husband's putting all this on a credit card.
He went out and took a HELOC out. Then we're sitting down.
Cause I would have a conversation with him. Like math doesn't care that your parents just passed away.
You don't have that money. Got it.
Right. Y'all do.
This is just about you are tired of getting pushed around by his family is that fair very fair okay this is this is outside of it and jade push back on me outside of we we simply don't have the money um it's not the first time it's happened and so i guess i know you know it's like it happens all the time and i'm just tired okay so here's the deal yeah it's not the first time it's happened. And so I guess, I know, I know.
It's like it happens all the time and I'm just tired. Okay.
So here's the deal. Yeah.
It's happened a whole bunch. It's going to happen a whole bunch after this, but when the house is, um, underwater, that's not the time to talk about, I told you you should replace the faucet.
That's the time to get all the water out of the house, start bailing the water out. Once the water's bailed out, then we're going to go to breakfast and we're going to talk about, hey, in the future, every time I feel like that your brothers and sisters and their spouses have more influence on our home than I do.
And I didn't say I do to all of them. I said I do to you.
This is our home. Can we come up with some boundaries for what is this going to be, what is this going to be?

If that means coming up with a fund that he puts money into every month, like a sinking fund that is just take care of his boundary-less family members because he doesn't have any spine, cool, come up with that fund.

Okay.

But with one of his parents in a casket right now, that's just a weird time to throw the gauntlet down for $3,000 money y'all have. Well, that and it makes you the bad guy.
Yeah. Exactly.
Here's the bad guy here. The bad guy here is nobody.
Just it stinks that we lost a parent. Yeah.
Right? And so I would hold his hand through grief and say, I'm sorry for causing a ruckus. Let's put our $3,000 in.

And then when this whole thing is over, when he's, y'all write your, y'all are doing your grief.

Y'all are talking about what now?

How are you?

Then you come up with the boundaries conversation.

Hey, this has happened our entire marriage.

And I want to draw a line here.

Is that fair?

That's very fair.

Okay.

I'm sorry about your loss. And by the way, your feelings, anybody listening, your feelings are your feelings.
You can have them. You're allowed to.
That doesn't change reality though. No.
Right? But what you said is such a good point. Don't draw the line in the sand.
Don't die on the hill while you're still climbing up it. Wait until you get to the top and be like, okay, now let's talk.
I remember one of my professors told me like like no one has ever had an aha moment after 10 o'clock at night go to bed yeah go to bed right so that old like don't go to bed on your anger sometimes go to bed yeah y'all are together you're united you'll figure it out go to bed and figure it out after everybody's eaten and somebody's had some coffee and the sun is back out that yeah that's so funny sam and i early on in our marriage, like there's something about standing in the kitchen that it's not a good time. It's never a good time.
It always turns into an argument. If you're standing up in the kitchen after hours and you bring up something that's a hot button issue, it will be an argument.
Yes. And so.
Even last night, my wife said, and it's because she's awesome. I want to talk about calendar and then budget.
And there's more budget and then and we got all the way into all right but if i move over this for my son's freshman year of college he's a freshman high school by the way and she said she literally goes you have seven minutes because it's getting up on nine o'clock and she's like yeah seven minutes and then and then i turn back into a pumpkin and it was like like we don't have any productive conversations after seven it's true and i get I get all nihilistic. And then what happens when the dollar collapses? And she's like, dude, I just went to bed.
But do you know what I find? When you figure out those things that kind of takes the steam out, like Sam and I figured out early on, if we go for a walk and we're not looking at, like you probably know this because you're a guy, the professional. But when we're not looking at each other, we can talk about some of the most things that would usually turn into an argument.
We're able to talk through them because we're not looking directly, like staring face to face, watching every nuance of your reaction. It's like, just go for a walk, hold hands.
Well, that's what I always tell people when you have hard conversations, don't have them at dinner, have them at breakfast because the sun is out, you've got some sleep and you can standing in the kitchen don't do it in the kitchen right sit down at the table but yeah like like um yeah the environment plays a big role into this but yeah if when somebody's parent has passed away if there's trauma there it's gonna hurt if they were super tight it's gonna hurt it's just gonna hurt and that's not the time to be like well, I told you. Let's get through that funeral.
And if you got the money, you got the money. You got the money, right? So thanks for that call.
Janie, your willingness to be open about your feelings is going to help a lot of people. Because I think a lot of people right now, Jay, don't feel like they have permission to feel how they want to feel.
Doesn't change reality, though. That's right.
And we have to operate in reality. That's true.
Very, very good advice, Dr. John Deloney, as usual.
Glad you're sitting here co-hosting with me. Hey, we'll be right back with you.
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I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me, Dr me dr john deloney taking your calls your life your money hope that you are enjoying this new year i hope that you are well into your new ways of life i'm not even going to call them goals let's just say your new way of life your new habits and i hope it's working out well for you if you're feeling stuck with your money we can help you with that triple eight eight two five five two five-225 is the number.
We got John in Chicago, Illinois. What's going on, John? Hey, thanks, guys.
I'm looking to propose to the girlfriend within the next year or so, and I'm curious about how I should go about doing that financially. What's the best way to calculate or determine how much one should spend on an engagement ring? Interesting.
What do you earn? So right now I'm 21. I'm a full-time college student.
I only make $15 an hour, but I do have $30,000 in cash just kind of waiting to pull the trigger. I know that's probably too much, but...
Yeah, way too much. Way too much.
i love that you would have been willing to spend

that though that's sweet yeah i'm just saying it's sweet brother john that's that's crazy talk

don't spend thirty thousand dollars on an honor i definitely wasn't planning on that okay good

you know want to be financially stable for seventy five dollars no no no no see we can't go

we can't be going to extremes like this so okay in a month what do you bring in in a month zero

So, yeah. no no see we can't go we can't be going to extremes like this so okay in a month what do you bring in in a month zero uh because you said 15 an hour right yeah maybe a thousand dollars okay so traditionally people say like three months income if you can save it up right i thought david said one month well i'm i'm getting to that okay tradition is like three months.
That seems wildcast to me. It depends on the lady.
Let me lay it out, John. Let me lay it out.
I'm cheap, John. America, I'm cheap.
Here's what I want you to filter through. Like current tradition is like three months.
I think you're right. I think I have heard Dave.
I don't want to put words in Dave's mouth, but I feel like I have heard him say maybe one month. Then you have to think about your lady.
Some women are like, you could take a string and tie it around my finger. And if it's romantic, I'm in right.
And then other people who are on the more on the bougie side of the scale, like yours truly might want a little something extra and they might cause you to come correct, you know, and then if I look at Jade's hand wrong,

it blinds me,

John,

blinds me.

The truth is Sam bought a ring and I was like,

and got a different one.

So this,

this, this matters.

Okay.

So on the one hand,

don't,

don't spend 30,000.

That's way too much.

But is there something around the three,

you know,

do you think she'd be happy if you spent one month's worth

or do you think she'd be happier if you spent three?

The truth is...

I think she'd be happy if it happens.

Okay, then there you go.

She's definitely not bougie.

I would, again, I haven't shopped for a dime in over two decades,

so I have no reference point.

But you got $30,000 in the bank.

I think $3,000, $4,000 sounds about right. That seems right.
How old are you again? 21. I'm 21.
Yeah. That's impressive.
Where'd you get that money, dude? I made it sound like you killed somebody. Business ventures.
Okay. Nothing crazy.
Just lots of savings. Good.
Excellent, man. That's pretty remarkable for a 21-year- man.
There's millions and millions of adults that don't have that kind of money, so good on you.

Hey, I got a proposition for you.

You want to get on hold right now and call her and ask her to marry you on the air right now?

Come on, man.

She's totally not with us, or not with me right now.

Ask her on the phone.

That happens all the time now.

You probably could FaceTime her now.

I think she doesn't want it over the phone. She doesn't want it on the internet.
I know. I'm playing.
I was just testing you. Oh, I wasn't joking.
I was so ready for this moment. You passed the test.
Good on you. I'm sorry, Ramsey fans.
That can't happen. Well, take a video of it.
Congratulations, brother. Tag us in it.
I want to know about this. I'm proud of you.
And remember, it's not the ring that... The ring doesn't really...

It matters, but it is not the whole...

You're going to be married forever.

Forever.

That's right.

Forever.

And, you know, I look at my ring from time to time

and I'm like, this is a nice ring.

But if something were to happen to it,

if I never had it,

I'd still be married to Sam Warshine.

I'd be a happy lady.

So there you go.

That's a nice ring.

That's a nice car. It is.
You want to know? It's it's not perfect it's not a perfect diamond it's got inclusions but i i love this so cool about today i don't even know what that means it means it's imperfect just like a relationship that's where you're wrong my relationship's perfect let's go out to akron ohio and talk to zatch what's up, Zach? Not Zach. Never say that.
Zach. What's up, Zach? It's not even spelled that way.
So V-A-K. There you go.
I like it. What's up, Zach? So I'm almost, I'm on babysit up too.
I'm almost paid off with a credit card. My question is if I should pay off my 401k loans next or jump straight to the next credit card.

I would go to the 401k loan first because that bad boy is on a timer.

There's a couple of things that I'd always put to the top of the list.

IRS debt, 401k loan is one of them because the truth is if something were to happen, you were to lose your job, you'd be on the hook for that.

You'd have a calendar year to pay that bad boy before you start getting hit with fees and penalties beyond what you already have. How much is it for? I have one for $4,000 and one for $8,000.
Yeah, I'd get into it. What caused you to take him out? Debt consolidation.
And then I ran back up the balances as you often Yeah. Yeah.
Hey hey just as a just as a curiosity because so many people call in here and they they're like Jade why can't I do debt consolidation and one of the things I tell people is that sometimes when you've consolidated it into one payment you feel like you've done something but you haven't really done anything right and it's only one payment and you kind of feel like you've got less is that what happened to you did you feel what what do you think caused you to go back in uh I just didn't change my habits you know I only had that hundred dollar payment so you know I had that extra money back in my budget every month and so I could afford all that stuff on Amazon and it's like we'll repeat it yeah listen you're helping people um Yeah, I agree. I would go first to these 401k loans and clear those out just because, like I said, similar to the IRS, they're on that timer and there's a lot of risk associated with that.
And then how much more do you have to pay off until you're done? 22,000. So I have 10,000 on that last credit card and then 12,000 on a personal loan.
Okay. All right.
Yeah, that's what I would do. Get on it, brother.
Congratulations, dude. You are on the path to freedom, my man.
Ooh, I think we can hit one more right quick. Can we do it? We got two minutes.
Should I do this? Hold on. We got to do this.
Oh. If you're ready to get your finances in order once and for all in 2025, join Jade and my main man Dave Ramsey on January 23rd for the free live stream Take Control of Your Money.
Jade and Dave are going to be hosting this. You're going to learn how to stop living paycheck to paycheck and free up more breathing rooms so you can pay off debt fast and finally get ahead with your money.
And Rachel Cruz and George Campbell are going to show up for a live Q&A where you can ask your money questions live, and you can be entered to win $4,000. Yeah.
And I like taking Dave's money. I love it.
It's one of my favorite things. You sign up for the free live stream by going to RamseySolutions.com slash live stream, or you can click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube.
Jay Money, what are you'all going to be talking about? Practically speaking, we're going to listen. I'm going to tell you how the whole thing's going to roll out.
We're going to talk to you about how you're feeling right now, the state of the economy, what's going on external, internally, right? We got inflation, real estate market's been weird. Election just happened.
There's a lot going on. You're feeling some type of way.
So Dave's going to unpack that. He's going to tell a little of his, his story.
I'm going to tell a little of my story. We're going to talk about how to make traction, right? We're going to talk about the debt snowball.
We're going to answer questions about investing. So we're hitting all of it.
And then I am going to do a budget breakdown. I'm going to show you how to set up your budget because that budget is the foundation of everything we teach.
If you've listened to the show, even for just a second, you've heard us talk about budgeting. And so I'm going to walk you real time through how to do that, how to set it up.
And then afterwards we're having a Q and A and George Campbell's on the line. Rachel Cruz is going to be on the line and we can't be stopped.
One of the most common things, like when I meet with people who are behind closed doors, fly in, we'll sit down for a while. They have net worths that I can't even fathom.
One of the most common questions that they talk about, they ask me is, with some bit of shame in the conversation, dude, tell me about this budget thing. What do you mean? They run big companies.
This idea of, I don't even know how that works. It's a humbling, scary question to ask.
If you have wondered, wondered, I don't even know how to do a budget or you think I know how to do it, but you've never have done it. And it's just like, dude, I'm embarrassed to ask anybody.
This is the event for you. It's free.
It's free. You can be at your house and just put it on the screen and watch it and get control of everything.
I'm hyped for it, man. Budgets are like toothbrushes.
Everyone needs one. And you got to use it twice a day.
Yeah. Without it, things get ratchet.
No matter how much money you make or don't make, you need a budget. And we'll talk about just that.
January 23rd, be there or be square. This is The Ramsey Show.
All right, Dave, you have some strong opinions. Possibly, yeah.
I think so. Okay, because you really prefer credit unions over big banks.
So why is that? Well, credit unions, for one thing, are non-profit, which means that the members, the customers, own the credit union. So any profits that the credit union makes goes back into customer pricing.
So you get better interest rate on savings,

cheaper checking, and so on, that kind of thing.

But what's more important than that, though,

is the fact that the customer is the owner

changes the spirit on the credit union.

So I find very few credit unions that aren't very customer-centric.

Yes.

Well, and I think we have found one that is incredible,

and that's Fairwinds.

They are an incredible credit union that is really out with the heart to help the customer. You know, that's why we're partnering with them, because they've got a scope to be able to handle the Ramsey audience, and they're the right kind of people with the right kind of values.
And they've done a really, really good job with customer service, And the deals that they're offering, the Ramsey Tribe is incredible.

Yeah, absolutely.

And you're right, their customer service is unbelievable.

Winston and I just signed up and we got an account.

And I'm not kidding.

It took less than five minutes.

It was so user-friendly.

The step-by-step approach was unbelievable.

And then the next day my phone rings and it says fair wins on my phone.

So I answered it and talked to someone there and they said, yeah, they give calls to every new customer. And so again, they just really care about your experience.
And I so, so appreciate that. So again, you guys, I know it can be a pain to switch banks or to open up new accounts, but Fairwinds, again, they make it so easy.
Plus anything that you can do at a traditional branch, you can do with them at fairwinds.org or on their app. And you'll have free access to over 33,000 ATMs.
Hey, you guys know how much I hate banks in general. And so for me to do this is a big deal.
Talk to our friends at Fairwinds and check out the combined checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsey tribe. You guys, it's incredible.
Yeah, you guys, it's so easy to join Fairwinds no matter where you live. So go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey to learn more.
That's F-A-I-R-W-I-N-D-S dot org slash Ramsey. Hey guys, good news.
Presale is on now for my new book, Build a Business You Love.

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Thanks for hanging out with us. The Ramsey Show Question of the Day is brought to you by Why Refi? Student loan debt is a swamp.
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All right, today's question comes from Hannah in Nebraska. Hannah writes, I'm a stay-at-home mom with two kids under the age of four.
My husband is a high school teacher making $56,000 a year, and he works 10 to 15 hours a day. During the summer, he works a job where he only earns $1,000 a month.
I understand he wants to make a difference in these young people's lives. However, we can't make ends meet.
I make all our meals from scratch to save money, but it isn't enough. We have $45,000 in consumer debt and we owe $80,000 on a HELOC.
We drive junker cars that are paid off. My husband is very good at his job, but earns so little and has crappy benefits they only cover his medical insurance so the kids and i are on a separate health plan if i got a job my whole salary would go to daycare i'm grateful for all the blessings god has given us but today i felt something break inside and i don't know how to move forward what do i do with the feelings of resentment that i have That is a deep one.
What do you think, Jade? You said it earlier, John, about math, not giving a what about you, right? And I think this is one of those situations where there is a part of what we teach, which is this method for getting out of debt and finding financial peace, right? For those of you who are not familiar with it, it's the seven steps, baby steps. And the first three ones are like humdingers, right? Because it's, you're kind of doing the scorched earth thing to get a thousand dollars saved.
Then you're going, you know, balls to the wall, you're paying off your debt, accept your mortgage. And then you're continuing that intensity to get three to six months of expenses saved.
Doing that would give her peace like she's never experienced, right? With an $80,000 HELOC and $45,000 in consumer debt, that would give her what she's probably looking for. But in order to get to that would require deep sacrifice.
And part of that deep sacrifice is not always doing the job that you ultimately want to end up at in order to get it done. There's part of this where you do a job.
You might do a job because it earns you more money. You might do a job because it allows you the flexibility to do other jobs.
You might do a job where you're working day and night, but it's only for a short period of time so you can get this done. So the sacrificial part of this is real, and that might be a very real part of your equation.
If he's making 56,000, then, you know, the two or three summer months, he's making another 3000 combined. That's part of it.
Now, if he's making 60,000 whole year combined in Nebraska, that's I will also on the other side of this, say that is median income.

So there might be part of this.

I think median income is like 67.

But if you're at 60, you're pretty much there.

So there might be part of this.

She doesn't mention anything about the house.

I don't know how much the house is taking up their money.

Well, it sounds like they have two mortgages on it.

Yeah.

So that could be part of the problem. I don't know, Hannah, but it's possible that your mortgage could be more than 25% of your take home.
And if that's the case, you will be feeling it. And then to her point, daycare is expensive.
Okay. For one kid, my daughter, it's $1,400 a month.
And when my son was in, his was $1,200. Her place just went up and we actually put her in a different school once his was freed up.
So the idea that okay for her she's got to take home at least $4,000 for her to feel like she's making money right. And so for her she's probably like I don't know.
So there what I want to highlight here is as much as I love people to do work that they love and as much as that's part of our heartbeat here there is part of it where you go okay what can i do in the meantime maybe he goes back to being a teacher but maybe for now he gets into a field i don't know if there's one he can get into but something where he makes more or maybe he's tutoring for a while there's got to be something else in addition to or pivot altogether here's my hot take um teachers are number three on the millionaires in the united states according to the ramsey study that they did yeah right and when i dug into that dave and i have have gone back and forth and he talks a lot about teachers are they're experts at making a plan and following it for an entire year. That's what they do, right? They make lesson plans.
Having grown up, I mean, having been married to a, the person I married was an elementary school teacher. That's what she was doing.
I also got a ringside seat. She understood the world she entered, right? So she entered what I call a Corolla world.
That's what she expected to drive forever because she knew i want to do this thing and so i'm going to build a life that requires that that that can be uh that i can live on on this salary yeah it's what i signed up for i don't believe you have a right to quote unquote work your passion or quote unquote make a difference when you've made previous choices that put your family $125,000 in the hole. Yeah.
So I want there to be amazing teachers. We need amazing teachers.
And this husband has this guy who works as a teacher making 56 grand made choices. Yeah.
And I'm blaming him. His wife may be fully on board with these.
Y'all made choices that said you can't work your passion right now because we owe everybody. Facts.
Right? And so when you get this 120 grand paid off, then you start having the passion conversation. I had this conversation with people who want to go be pastors and they have 100 grand coming out of seminary debt, student loan debt.
You can't. Yeah.
You can't afford to quote unquote work at your mission church because before you chose your quote unquote mission, you told a bank, hey, if you guys will pay for me to go to school, I'll pay y'all back when I get out. And you can't afford to on this quote unquote mission salary.
Social workers in my world, new therapists, if you go to some fancy school and take out 200 grand of loans, you can't go be a therapist working with the least of these in our communities, which we desperately need because you've taken so much money out beforehand. And so that's number one.
Number two, Hannah has, I think she has either ordered. And so meaning I either work full time and my salary doesn't do anything or I have to stay at home and not make any money.
That's not true. I've got some friends.
One of my closest friends in the world, he is a school teacher and he's also a writer, an amazing family. And his wife stays at home with kids and she keeps three or four or five or six or seven other kids.
And they are both exhausted when they go to bed at night, but they make it work. That's the thing.
These are only, this is not the way you live your life for the rest of your life. This is a short-term sacrifice for a long-term goal.
So even if you're a stay-at-home mom, there is something you can do. And to your point, you're going to be exhausted.
Your eyes are going to be bleary. There's no getting around that.
And I also want to add to this, an $80,000 HELOC, typically it's not one spouse that makes that choice. That's right.
It's unfair to dump all this on him. Yeah.
And so now the $1,000 a month in the summertime, that ain't going to cut it. There's got to be more to this.
And I feel like, I don't know what it is, John. I feel like more and more, I don't know if it's just the way of the world or like culture right now, but I feel like more and more when we tell people you've got to grind it out there's just kind of like this scoff of like that's not possible or are you kidding have you seen my life or it's there's just kind of this part of it where they think we're not being serious like are you are you really meaning where it's frustrating is you and i both i don't make it about us but we've both been to the grind it out yeah you know what i mean and it's a real it's a real place it's it's a real frustrating frustrating rage inducing place but it's the it's the jet fuel that gets you to that next line right yeah and i can't think of a conversation other than telling somebody that a loved one has passed away that I would want to have more than sitting down with this husband and father who's a great teacher and saying, the world needs you, but you made choices together with your wife before today.
And so as Paul Thomas Anderson once said, you may be through the past, the past thing through with you. And so you're going to have to either stop working 15 hours a day.
You're going to have to move into administration like tomorrow and double your salary, or you're going to have to work three jobs in the summer until you get this stuff paid off. Yeah, man.
That's the choice. There's no getting around it.
It's math. I want to know where the real ones are out there who are willing to be a one-car family and grind it out for a year.

I want to know the folks who are willing to sell their beloved televisions and their big sectional couches

and really make deep sacrifices who are willing to work and work and work some more to make deep sacrifices.

You have a call center job, you have your 9-to-5 job, and you sell cookies on the side.

I want to know where those folks are because those are the folks who are getting out of debt and they're doing it quickly.

This is The Ramsey Smart Tax, you can save up to 70% compared to other tax software out there. It's a no-brainer.
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You're listening to The Ramsey Show on The Ramsey Network. And hey, just a reminder, the next hour of the show, if you want to catch it, you'll have to go on to the Ramsey Network app.
You'll be able to see all three hours of the show on the app. And I like it because there's not as many interruptions.
It's uninterrupted Ramsey stuff. And that's when James Childs gets off the rails in The Ramsey Network app.
It's worth checking out. All right, let's take a call.
Let's go to Debra. She's in Phoenix, Arizona.
What's going on, Debra? Hello there. Thanks for taking my call.
You bet. How can we help? So I'm 56, and my husband just passed away on the 29th, so two weeks ago.
I'm so sorry. What was his name? Chet.
Chet. Awesome guy? Yeah.
Kind of amazing. He was a pastor.
He was 69, I'm 56, so 12 and a half years difference. Yeah, pretty amazing.
I'm so sorry. Thank you.
Long time coming or was it pretty sudden? We just discovered this cancer about two and a half years ago. And just the last three weeks, something happened real fast.
And so it's probably an answer to prayer that we didn't want him to suffer and for him to go fast. And so that's what happened.
I'm so sorry. That's tough.
Yeah. I'm so sorry.
Are you still waking up every day unable to catch your breath? Or has the sun come back out? Like, where are you right now? Yeah, getting out of bed before 9 a.m. is a chore.
Yeah. And then trying to quiet my mind at night is hard.
My son, he's here right now, but he's getting ready to leave today. So I'll be by myself.
So those quiet mornings and evenings are going to be very loud very soon. Do you have some friends that can come hang out with you? I do.
I live in an active adult community, and this community is like nothing I've ever experienced. so they're just waiting for me to leave the bubble so they can inundate me with love that's fantastic so two things before we haven't got to your question yet but um if you don't want to get out of bed you're not broken totally normal okay thank you and if you're laying in bed and every one like thing have said, should have done, I wonder if, every worry you have 30 years from all that, totally normal, you're not broken.

Okay. Good news.
You're not crazy. and if you want to do one brave and courageous thing that will pay astronomical dividends five

years from now text a couple of your girlfriends and and commit to one morning a week getting up

seven o'clock and going thing that will pay astronomical dividends five years from now. Text a couple of your girlfriends

and commit to one

morning a week getting up at 7 o'clock and going

to have coffee.

Okay. Just something

that you need to look

forward to and plan forward.

And that's not an everyday thing.

Everyday is too much right now

but putting one of those on the calendar, two of those

on the calendar will A, give

your friends something to do so

they're not just sitting there on your front porch like vultures.

I'm going to go to bed at night, the night before, be so annoyed that this is on the calendar, I don't want to go, I don't want to go. But if you get up and go five years from now, it will pay off in a pretty remarkable way.
Okay? Okay. I'm so sorry for your loss.
So how can we help you today? Yeah. So, oh my gosh, he was, the only thing he left me with was a big giant bucket of love.
That's the nicest way I've ever heard that said on the show. So no retirement, no life insurance, no savings, no.
I mean, I was even joking with everybody in my family. It's like, oh, my gosh, I was going to send a thank you card out.
And I don't even have stamps. So I'm like, I don't even have stamps.
So he had a brain aneurysm 12 years ago. And so nobody would insure him for life insurance.
And this is how this whole thing started with me, you know, harping on him to try to at least get some sort of life insurance because I just had a feeling he was not going to live long. And that's when somebody came to the house to do the physical and they said, you know, your numbers are too elevated.
And so we had no idea what that meant. And then we found out that he had cancer.
So so no life insurance except for an eight thousand dollar policy which is going to take care of the two services one here in arizona and one in washington that i have to do and it's going to eat that up so i just don't have any other resources financially i am a self-employed realtor. And I do okay.

Well, the last few years have been brutal.

Oh, it's been awful. self-employed realtor.
Okay. And I do okay.

Well,

the last few years have been brutal.

Oh,

it's been awful.

Yeah.

Also,

can I go back

to something you said?

If you can't afford

to do two services,

you don't do two services.

Okay.

And I know you think

you have to

and people are expected.

They don't get a vote

right now

because you are

in an existential moment.

Okay.

And there's going to be

Thank you. And people are expected.
They don't get a vote right now because you are in an existential moment. Okay.
And there's going to be... Well, thankfully, somebody has sent us money for that.
Okay. Good, good, good, good.
Okay. So how are you paying your bills right now? How are you keeping your four walls up? With my career, real estate.
Do you have enough money to do that? Yes. Okay.
What do you earn from real estate? What's like a good year for you or a month, a monthly look at take home for you? Oh, probably about 160. Okay.
And you're pretty consistent throughout the year? Yeah. Even the last few years? Yeah.
It has grown the last couple of years and I've turned my business into an LLC. Amazing.
Good for you. Good for you.
And I have a trust. Okay.
So it's all buttoned up in there. What's your biggest concern right now financially? Retirement.
Retirement, not that I'm going to retire anytime soon, but I just need to better position myself because I live in a community where there's unlimited resources that everybody has. You know, they're living their best lives.

This is the last chapter in everybody's lives.

And I am lucky to live here.

I feel very fortunate to live here.

But I don't have unlimited resources.

Can you afford to live there? Yeah.

Can you afford to live there?

I can because my rate's 3.5.

And I can't imagine going anywhere else unless it's somewhere in Kentucky.

Well, let's look at this as a whole.

$5 million is still a ton of money, right?

Even if it's a great deal.

Let's look at it as a whole because you said, you kind of spoke about it.

My husband didn't leave me retirement.

There's no savings.

Did you have anything set aside?

I'm just wondering.

I don't know how you guys managed your finances, if it was separate, if it was together.

Do you have any savings to your name basically is my question yeah so I do have the six months um it's just sitting in a safe you know it's just in our house and it's like okay well that that's not growing me any money so I'm just trying to and then I also have some in a savings at Wells Fargo you know so those are not gonna there's no ROI there so tell me the tell me the You've got your emergency fund. How much is in that? That's just in the safe.
20. Okay.
And then you've got the other savings. What's in that? 30.
Okay. And then anything else I need to know about? We have some SEP, individual retirement funds, just like 16 per person.
So for he and I, so another 32 there. Okay.
Yeah. So let me see if I can put your mind at ease here.
I'm always trying to do the calculators to find out. So, oh, one other thing before I do this.
So tell me about your house. Tell me what you owe on it and what it's worth and what you pay every month.
So we owe $303. The payment each month is $2014, and I pay an extra $225.
So it's cutting off almost five and a half years of the 30 years plus $35,000 is what I'm cutting off by doing the extra $225 a month. Okay, good.
So I like that you're walking the steps. The only thing I'm wondering is if you're putting away 15% of your income currently.
Because you told me you have the emergency fund, six months, love it. It's perfect where it is in the safe.
The next step would be for you to be putting away 15% of your income and you're already doing extra on your mortgage, which is really, really good. So as long as you're doing the 15%, are you? I don't think so.
I'm not tracking it very well if I am. I'm trying to tithe and just, and yeah, I haven't had to worry about the finances because my husband, you know, was bringing in an extra $5,000 a month, which was our overhead.
And so I felt like anything I was bringing in was just extra. Yeah, understandable.
So we weren't really policing it or watching it. So here's what I would do if I were you.
I love that you're paying extra towards the mortgage. I think that's exactly right.
If you can get and start putting a $1,900 a month into retirement, because you have it, if you're really earning $13,000 a month, which you say is pretty accurate for you, if you start putting away 15%, right now you said you're 56? Yes. Okay.
By age 70, that's going to grow to $838,000, just that. So that's a good move.
That's if you do nothing else different. Okay.
And the idea is you're already working to pay off your home,

which is what you need to continue to do.

So if you continue to do that,

your income continues to go up because you're still young.

You're 56.

You're not going anywhere.

You keep working this real estate thing.

I think you're going to be okay.

For you, it's just getting in the habit of saying,

what I do intentionally with my money does make a difference.

It's not extra.

It's not gravy.

And I think that you're going to make it. And I think you're going to be just fine.
Give us a call if you need any more help. This is The Ramsey Show.
Hey, what's up, guys? Episode two of 90 Day Money Makeover is available right now on YouTube. This series follows real people as they take on the challenge of transforming their finances and their lives in just 90 days.
In this episode, watch as they face new obstacles, celebrate wins, and push forward on their journey. And of course, I'll be walking alongside them every step of the way.
Okay, now here's a little sneak peek of what the new episode is all about. Me and Dara, back in November, have a new son, a baby boy.

We have $87,000 in debt.

I've been in debt since I was like 18 years old.

I gave birth to him.

I knew, I said, I cannot leave him with someone that I don't know.

I don't care if we're eating rice and beans, Sean, I told him.

There was no going back.

When you guys called into the Ramsey show, it was like,

I think that we should push them harder.

Baby Jonathan being born is a wake-up call for us to finally change.

I can't go on another month.

Wake-up call.

You know, over the next 20 years, this is important.

You know, we've got to get this right.

You want to pay off your debt.

You want to get your time back.

You want to get your home.

Nothing usurps those three.