The Road to Financial Freedom Is Paved With Grit

Live from Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I am Rachel Cruz, hosting today with my good friend, Ken Coleman.
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And Ken and I will be answering your questions. You know, I'm looking at the screen here in the studio and it just occurs to me, we look like we're very coordinated today.
We did not communicate ahead of time, James. This is just, you know.
Ken loves the coordination of outfits, and here we are. I'm a little excited about it, which is why I pointed it out.
It's rare that we, you know, coordinate outfits. It never happens.
So this is fun. But we're here to coordinate efforts on your behalf.
How about that? Well, well done, Ken. Do you like that? Like that segue? Well done.
Okay, Up next we have, which is one of my favorite calls to take is actually two people on the line. I'm assuming there are a couple.
You're kidding me. And this is Valerie and Bill.
I couldn't be more excited that we have a couple on with us. Yeah.
They're calling from St. Louis.
Hey, you guys, welcome to the show. Hi, good afternoon.
Thank you for having us. Absolutely.
And you're both here, right? Yes, ma'am.

Yes, ma'am.

So fun. Okay, so great.
All right. How can we help? What's going on? Yes, ma'am.
So I inherited a large amount of money from my dad. How much? A million plus.
Wow. And it's in the cell of his house is where it initially comes from.
And there's actually an addition to that inheritance that's in IRAs and things of that nature. It's like 2.5 locked up in that.
Wait, 2.5 in the investments and the million from the house? Or is 2.5 altogether? No, it's separate. Yes, ma'am.
Okay, so 3.5. Okay.
Yes, ma'am. So my question is, I would like to give a little bit of this money, not a lot, just a little bit to our four children.

Right now, my dad didn't leave him anything.

I was the only child, and so he pretty much just left everything to me.

But I would like to give them some.

And the dilemma I'm having is that I have four kids in four different financial situations. My oldest one is married with three kids, a wife that works, has a house.
He's financially okay. My second son is married, has a wife, two children with one on the way, could use a financial bump, if you will, owns a house.
My daughter, who is also older, she owns a house but is living with her boyfriend, who they own the house together. I know that's a real Dave Ramsey no-no.
But anyway, and so she's financially well. She's graduated nursing school, and she's got a good head on her shoulders financially.
She's the saver. And then I have a daughter who is currently in college and still lives at home who needs to get hit heavily in the head with the day or in the financial piece, seriously.
So you can see I'm kind of all over the map with if I give them some money, how do I gift it to them? I don't want one. I don't want to enable one.
I don't want another one to just blow it. I don't want to potentially give them money and put it on the principle of the house.
Let me jump in for a second. So how much are you planning to give each child? The same amount or different amounts? Same dollar amount across the board.
It's not huge. I'm just thinking like, you know.

Where's Bill?

Well, what do you think?

Maybe just $10,000.

Just like $10,000.

Just something.

Just to kind of help them ease their financial life right now.

So where's Bill at on this deal?

Bill?

Yes, sir.

Where are you at?

I personally think they wait until something happens and we pass on to the other side and

they get the whole shebang that's in our truck. Okay.
This is a fun, okay. This is a, yes, this is an interesting discussion.
Okay. Because I read a book, which you guys should read just for this discussion because I don't agree with the entire book, but it's part of it.
I love that you're coming with a book recommendation. It's called Die with Zero.
Have you heard of this? I know this book and it's on my list to read. It is interesting because part of this discussion is what you guys are talking about.
And it's his philosophy basically is give your kids their inheritance. Now.
What now? So that's because the most time, according to the book, that people need money. So to your point, Valerie, is really between 24 and 34.
You're paying off student loan debt. You're getting your first home.
Usually transitions within marriage and kids. Like the most happens usually within that timeframe.
And they could get a head start, quote unquote, financially, if they had help with a down payment or if they, whatever it is. And then they get to build above that and they get to start earlier versus them getting money.
This is not kind of against you, Bill, a little bit, but versus the older kids now being in their 60s when bill and valerie passed to the other side well when you're 60s you're pretty much all set up you don't really need it or you shouldn't and then what do you do with that right so it's just kind of like all right so let's stay there go ahead and use it so before we get them so if that's the case and and you're not necessarily saying they do that here no it's just it's just a take they don't valerie to my knowledge, you two, you all speak up here. You don't have already a set amount that you were going to give outside of this conversation of give them all 10 grand out of this inheritance.
But Bill, if I'm hearing you right, you're going, we don't know what chunk it'll be, but whatever we have left, when we die, that's what they get. There's not a certain amount of money that you would be in favor of giving them now this this idea that rachel put out there would the two of you go all right if we gave them a larger chunk now would you be okay with that well my thing is so we're going to be paying off our house and a few other things that we have i just don't want to i would rather that money continue to grow because now we will be financially set.
And then in hopes, if the market is the way it should be, we would have multi-millions in there for them whenever we die. All right.
But that's contingent on you guys stewarding it as you would, and it grows over time. So I appreciate the book idea, but I feel like that's only applicable to people who have a large chunk of money that is true yes that's fair so in this case which is them in a sense they have 3.5 million yeah so in this case uh you two you guys are you're calling us to weigh in the middle of this deal i want to know bill from you i mean it's 40 grand which granted it's nothing to sneeze at but 40 grand out of 3.5 million it's not a ton that's where i'm at so is it what's bothering you about it bills it is it it's less about the dollar amount probably maybe the principle of it is it truly equal to all four because there's four different situations yes i'm going to tell you as a father of three rachel's a mother of three.
My vote is, yes, each one of them gets the same amount. You create a whole, I don't like giving them all different amounts based on their realities.
And you could wait with like the one in college and say, we're going to hold it until you're 25. You know what I mean? There could be an age.
But where are you at on the 10 grand each? Forget the number amount. Is it an equal amount? Oh, it's equal.
Yeah, I think it would be equal. You agree with me? Yeah, for sure.
I think it needs to be equal. I feel like it gets real messy real quick, yes.
Even though certain kids obviously maybe need more right now. But I also want this, whenever you give a gift of money, you want it to be a blessing, right? You want this not to continue to harm.
So if if you do see situation where this could be actually

not good for them and leads them in more of an unhealthy path that would be more of a pause for me just to think through that's why the age limit may be something to think about like when you're 25 you get it i don't know yeah just throwing it out there but no i'm in favor sorry i'm too i'm on valet's side 10 each and it's such a small percentage compared to what what you guys We'll leave them anyways.

So this is The Ramsey Show.

Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance, or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John.
Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're not going to die or something? Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it.
And one of my buddies said, hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids. And I immediately went and got term life insurance.
That's a gut punch. For decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse.
They've lost somebody important to them. Me too.
They don't know what to do next. You're going to have a crisis here.
You know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this

up, or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow.

That's exactly right.

These are the two options.

It's saying I love you to your family.

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We are taking your calls on life and money. Up next, we have Kel in Tuscaloosa, Alabama.
Hey, Kel, welcome to the show. Hey.
Hi hi how are you doing i'm doing well i sent an email because i didn't think i could get on but then i called and got on there you go looky there you're live right now this is exciting i have a two-part question all right investment in this second part is aboutiary. Okay.
All right. What's your first question? I started watching Dave Ramsey heavily last year.
I love his advice. All of you all, your perspectives on life and your sense of humor.
It's just amazing. Thank you.
I feel like she's talking about me there. So I really appreciate that, Kel.
Thank you. I've always been doing well financially, like pretty decent, but there is definitely room for growth and improvement, and this show has really helped me.
As a social worker, I make about $88,600 annually, and I get about $4,200 a month for my rental properties. I own the rental properties outright.

I manage them myself, so there's not a whole lot of overhead.

There was this one episode Dave talked about being able to charge low rent,

give grace, and et cetera due to circumstances,

and that just really resonated with me.

But also I have quite a nest egg in savings,

and that comes from a financial insecurity that I once had that I'm now healing.

So now I'm open to spending some, you know, leisure, having fun, and just investing more. There we go.
I've always wanted to, the properties that I have, they're all single family homes. And so I've always, a long time ago, I was like, hey, I'm done with that.
I want to do multi-un-unit and I think I'm ready but I'm really not sure about the best way to go about doing that and some of my ideas just don't align with your principles I know but I'm just going to save them anyway um so I'm not sure if I should sign it to the multi-un, get a HELOC on my personal residence where I owe one-on-one, and it's worth about $300. My next bag is $175 cash.
That's not quite enough to purchase outright, and the prices are just rising. And sometimes I feel bad for not doing this a couple years ago when the prices were lower, but I was scared and all of those things.
Okay,

let me interrupt you real quick. Okay, let me ask this.
So you make $88,000 a year. You bring in

$4,200 in rental properties that you own outright. How many homes is that? Five.
Five. And how much

are they worth? They're not worth a lot of money they're in alabama they're not worth a lot okay no that's fine that's fine no i mean still it's fantastic um and then you have 175 000 in just savings is that what you said just different savings accounts one is an account where I put all the money from the rentals.

That's about $100.

I just pay insurance.

I just do the repairs.

And then the other ones is just regular savings.

But recently, one account had $30,000 in it.

And I was just looking, and it was gaining like $0.25 a month.

And just listening to you all, I looked into the mutual trust, I believe. And I went with LPL Financial, and I invested there just to see where that goes.
But that's new. I was, you know, nervous.
But like I said, I'm trying to be more open and make money work for me. Yes, totally.
No, I hear you. Well, Kel, you've been, let me just tell you, I mean, it's very impressive what you've done.
I mean, you are in an incredible spot financially. So you call the Ramsey show.
Yes. Any of the examples or options

that you gave to purchase a multi-unit, we would not go for because they all pretty much involve

debt. So I'm not going to go down that route with you, but what I would encourage you in

is, you know, I, I so appreciate your willingness and urgency to continue to grow, right? You want your money to grow and what's the next thing? And I think that that is fantastic. But what happens so easily is that emotion and that motivation sometimes crosses a line of risk.
And then people take on debt and then take on risk and they take this beautiful peaceful life that you have where you're just not yeah I mean you're making 4,200 a month on rental properties I'm like I'm like you're you have this incredible life set up and then they go and kind of mess with it and suddenly now you have a bank in your life you're worried about. And suddenly this peaceful life has now brought on a level of anxiety and work and risk.
And, you know, it takes a part of your mindset away from you and away from the peace that you have. So I want you to grow financially.
We are all about that on this show. I think that that's fantastic.
I just want you you to do it in a slower wiser way that's going to ultimately for you Kel set you up as a whole person not just the financial piece of your life but every every element of your life to still continue this piece that you have so what I would do is either continue to do because you can't I mean from our Reg from our regards, you don't, you can't afford a, to go buy a multi-unit, you know, complex. So what I would say is either continue to do what you're doing, maybe save up and go buy, you know, you said that our homes aren't worth a lot.
You know, maybe you go and step up and rental and go buy in a nicer neighborhood somewhere that's more expensive. You can get more rent that way, right? Growing in these ways that it is more within your means when it comes to cash.
Because right now you're on baby step seven. I mean, you're good.
Yeah, I'm sensing, Kel, that you gave us a real window into what's really going on here. And I think you need to be okay with how well you've done.
I think Rachel nailed that. And there's the same thing that you identified at the start of the call where you have some financial insecurity and you've saved all this money up and you're just afraid to spend it.
That's also driving this question, which is, I feel like I need more and more and more and I'm willing to be risky and go into debt to fill this hole in your soul. And the hole in your soul here is whatever you've come from that you've conquered, by the way, but you still have that fear.
And by the way, we all have those. So you're not abnormal.
Rachel's right. You've crushed it.
I think you need to identify today that the same thing that's not allowing you to go spend some of that cash and live some of your life and enjoy the fruits of being disciplined is the same thing that's making you question, should I add more to my portfolio? Do exactly what Rachel said. When you can upgrade in cash, right, to better investment properties,

do that. But don't have this burning in your soul that I've got to do more to break some

generational poverty or whatever you've come from. And I sense that that's probably true with you.

Am I right? Yeah. Okay.
So Rachel's already giving you great advice. I say amen to what Rachel said.

I'd add one other little thing.

I want you to enjoy some of your money for a bit. Stop thinking about adding your portfolio right now.
And why don't we just take a really great vacation? Why don't we bless some people in your community with some nice, generous financial gift that's easy for you. But you begin to see the value of what you've done and allow you to soak in that, that,

hey. gift that's easy for you, but you begin to see the value of what you've done and allow you to soak in that, that, Hey, I've, I've earned this.
I've broken this generational poverty. I'm never going back.
I'm the future. I'm the model.
So let's model the way. I think that's my encouragement for you today.
And I would say Cal to, uh, jumping off what Ken was saying, and I think he is so spot on, is that growing your portfolio,

again, that's not wrong, but we want it to come from a right motivation. And if the motivation is out of a lack of fear or scarcity or, oh, gosh, if I don't do this, what's going to happen is you're going to get the complex, and then the finish line moves again.
And then it's like, well, I probably shouldn't have gotten one over there. So maybe I should.
You're going to keep, keep going, going, going, going. There has to be a level of contentment in your soul, like a level of peace.
Well, it's been about six years since I invested in anything. So I have, I was content, you know, and this was a long term goal.
And I just, you know, starting to feel like, okay, I think I'm ready. Yeah, that's fair.
Yeah.

Yeah. So then maybe your motivation is pure, but I would just do it then from a tactical sense

in the right wisest way, which we would say is not with debt. It is to continue to be autonomous

when it comes to your money and not have other people telling you what you have to do because then you make totally different decisions with your life and money when other people are involved. You are in a state of autonomy and that's where I would stay, Kel.
Continue to grow. You've crushed it.
And you're doing great. And go take a vacation.
Yes, spend some money on you. Go enjoy.
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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. One of the ways for you to get a handle on your finances in 2025 is to get control of your money.
And we have a live stream January 23rd free to you called Take Control of Your Money. It's hosted by Dave Ramsey and Jade Warshaw.
And you're going to learn how to stop living paycheck to paycheck, free up some breathing room so finally you can pay off debt, have some margin and some peace when it comes to your money. And then George Camel and myself are going to join them.
Yeah, a little cameo, huh? Yeah, later on in the live stream. We're going to take some live Q&As and kind of do like this show and take some questions and talk to some of the viewers there and what's crazy too is if you sign up and you attend this live stream we are giving some cash away yes there's a cash giveaway for five people to win four thousand dollars each i mean that's unbelievable it's 20k one night what quick math you can do, I went to basic math classes.
Unbelievable. So sign up for the free live stream by going to RamseySolutions.com slash live stream or click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or watching on YouTube.
And join us. It's free.
It's going to be a great night. It really is.
These live streams are always very helpful at the beginning of the year to either just get the motivation back again and kind of get back on track. if you are new to all of this and you're thinking I need to start a fresh start with my money this is what you want to attend so again join us for take control of your money on January 23rd up next we have Rose in Washington DC hi Rose welcome to the show hi how are you guys we are doing great how can we help um so my question is financial but it's also affected by like relational stuff um so my question is is it the right decision for my boyfriend and i to move um out from living with his family when the lease ends knowing that our rent will double and we're still on baby step two and then we also have two colleges we have to pay for starting in the fall um for some background i'm 31 he's 27 and we're currently going through like an intense disclosure process in therapy so we think you know being with families like adding some stress and then at the same time we unexpectedly got custody of his niece a year and a half ago when she was 17 um so we got her late in life so we we know we won't make it to baby step five in time to save up for her college that we have to start paying for in the fall.
So what's the alternative if you don't move out of the brother's house? We would have to stay living with like family members, which the run is cheaper, but just it's, and it's not with his parents, it's with like brother, nephew, family. So yeah, it's a disaster.
You know, you want to get out of there. You know, you should get out of there, right? Yeah.
So is there not a better rent option? Um, it's just like right now each, like me and my boyfriend are each paying like 550, but if we move out, you know, getting an apartment near the D.C. area for like a one-bedroom or two-bedroom with our niece would be like double what we're paying now.
Okay, I know that area somewhat. Where are you now? What area are you in? We're in the suburbs.
We're in like Springfield, and we're in a big house, so we split it between six people. Right.
Versus if we go out on our own, we'll be paying double for ourselves. Yeah.
So run the numbers for Rachel here. What your income is versus what this new rent would be? Okay.
So I make about $86,000 per year with multiple jobs. And then last year, my boyfriend made $20,000 because he was part-time in college.
He's about to take a break on that. So about like together, it's about $106,000 total per year.
And then the rent that we're paying right now is $1,120. But if we move out, it'll increase to about $2,500, which I think is still in the 30 percent monthly income but we're nervous

about that we're going to be cash flowing colleges starting in the fall okay um Rose let me tell you this a little bit of a red flag that I have going up is that you're saying a lot of hour hour hour you're taking care and putting money towards a family member and a situation that you don't have any legal, you know, right to in a sense, meaning that you are putting your money in to a life in a relationship that there is no marriage, there is no legal binding. And there's a part of me that I that worries me because, you know, even though I'm sure you guys are in love, and you know, you've been in a relationship for a while, we get calls on this show quite often that, you know, we get a call and it's like, yeah, my boyfriend and I just broke up and I, you know, still have debt and I don't really have a ton.
And, and then it turns out that they, you know, we're giving their money and your income to a situation that if something were to happen with the relationship, you don't get anything from on the back end. Does that make sense? Like there's a big risk there and I'm not a huge fan of you feeling this burden either because it's not your niece, it's his.
She's the breadwinner I hate to say in this situation. 100% she is.
I really don't like. My boyfriend needs to get his act together.

Why don't you get married?

Well, there's that.

So, okay.

Well, that's the little part.

But, yeah, so we've been together almost six years,

and we were about to get engaged, but he had a relapse,

and so that's why we're in the intense therapy process.

What do you mean?

We've got to put that on pause.

Without getting into the nitty-gritty, what kind of relapse? Like a full relapse? Are we talking about substance abuse? No. Okay.
But I am in a 12-step program. Yeah.
You are? Yes, and him too. He's in recovery now, and then we're in the disclosure process okay when you said disclosure i figured there was something okay all right yeah we're not we don't want to dig anymore just okay yeah so uh rose i would i would be separate yeah i and again this isn't to punish helm this is to be wise for rose and i would tell you this i mean honestly rose we are we are one of the shows in america that of the only shows that tell married couples to combine their finances.
A lot of people say just keep everything separate regardless if you're married or not. We say when you get married, you need to combine everything except for with the asterisk.
If there is an ongoing addiction, if there's abuse, if there's something in the relationship, we do recommend separating again for protection of the other spouse until trust is rebuilt and all of it so from a financial perspective rose i would really um and again it's not to punish him but it is to say hey we we are not married and we were going that direction there was a relapse which again i think happens in the recovery world we have good we have a good friend you know that that is in recovery too. And so like, it is wonderful.

And there is a healing journey and a process that I totally believe in. But I would just, I would slow down and I wouldn't be fretting about the niece's college.
That's not even your niece yet. I mean, all of it.
Do you know what I'm saying? Like, I just, I would keep some things very, very separate until you feel comfortable enough to marry this man. And at that point, then he is trustworthy then to together start working on this life

financial. separates until you feel comfortable enough to marry this man and at that point then he is trustworthy then to together start working on this life financially together but until then there's no we in it it's his niece he got custody yeah you know what i'm saying and i know that probably goes against so much of what how you guys have been living and i know that feels really counter to it but but that's that that that's the would give you because again, we hear, we hear the other side of it too.
Yeah. And just to follow up, Rose, is it fair to say that when you're going through whatever you're going through now, is it possible that this process leads one or both of you to the point where you guys go, we're not going to stay together or we're not going to get married? Oh, no, we're pretty sure we're going to make it

through the process. I didn't understand that.
Okay. So, you know, at this point, I'm never a

fan of anybody shacking up together, but I'm old school. No judgment, by the way, when I say that,

no judgment. That's just my personal opinion.
I'm not judging anybody. Now, with that said,

then he needs to be truly paying 50-50 on the rent. And you, I'm just clarifying something

that Rachel said, you're not taking any of your

in the then he needs to be truly paying 50 50 on the rent and you i'm just clarifying something that rachel said you're not taking any of your income to help out with the niece or anything else not until you guys are a legal couple you pay for you that means you pay your half of the rent you pay your half of the utilities you pay your that's the and then everything else is separate until we get legally married i want to make sure you catch that and that keeps things really nice and clean okay okay which means he may need to delay college for a little bit that's right yeah and get his income up yeah that he if you guys are going to move out of the family situation that is toxic and not fun to be in then your rent goes up and as two adults we adults, we have to split that rent. Well, if he looks up and says, wow, I don't have a lot for this rent, then I'm going to have to figure out a way to pay for this rent.
And you have to problem solving that, right? Instead of just leaning on you, Rose, for everything. And yeah, I would be very cautious of that, which again, this is hard and messy in the point of the journey that you guys are relationally to.
So I know we're adding on probably an extra layer of hard conversation, but you called.

So good luck to you, Rose.

Hope nothing but the best for you guys.

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May not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Carissa in Oklahoma.
I'm 25. My husband is 37.
I have been the main breadwinner since we got married because I wanted my husband to focus on his writing career. I recently had our second child and would like to stay home to raise the babies.
The problem is I can't convince my husband that we can make it on one income. He has not consistently held a job for the last three years due to company layoffs.
I'll address that in a minute. I make about $30,000 a year.
My husband, when he's working, by the way, that's in parentheses, makes about $30,000 as well. Our rent is $800 a month.
And besides our normal bills, we have a car payment of $300 a month.

We also owe $3,700 in medical bills.

We budget and don't live outside our means.

It would probably be a big financial change to only have one income.

But I feel like my most important job is to take care of my children.

Is my desire to be a stay-at-home mom unrealistic in this economy?

In the economy?

No.

In your household?

Yeah. In your husband's reality where he can't seem to hold down a job i tell us about what do you think all right you heard me okay so i'll address that one another layoff situation well okay so let me get my tea all right let me remind you he has not this is these are her words he has not consistently held a job for the last three years due to company layoffs.
False. If I had a buzzer sound, I would hit the buzzer.
It should be worded. He has not consistently held a job for the last three years due to his lack of effort.
Now, what I'm not disputing is that the guy's been laid off, maybe multiple times over a three-year period. But when someone is not consistently holding a job down for anything longer than six months, it's an effort issue.
And that's going to cause a little stir with some people. Let me explain.
In the American economy as of today, one can go work. It may not be the career that you got educated in or that you want to be in, but I can promise you that if I'm shown the door later today after the show, which the jury's still out, I'm not going to be without work for three years, no matter what happens.
I am going to work somewhere and I will make 20, 22, 25 an hour at a bare minimum. Not because I'm great or I'm special or uniquely talented, because I have a pulse.
Am I making a clear point? And so there's zero reason for him to go 36 months, and I'm putting it that way on purpose, without consistent income. And I have a heart for this.
It's what I've been doing the last seven years at Ramsey Solutions on the Ken Coleman Show. It's coaching people who aren't where they want to be professionally.
But there is no excuse for a man that has a wife and a child to go three years without consistent income. Three years with industry volatility? Sure, that's happened.
So I want to make sure that the critics are really hearing what I'm saying. I'm not saying he hasn't gone through layoffs and maybe his industry or what, but you can go do something.
And we're talking about $30,000 a year is what she's making. Right, right.
And he makes about $30,000 when he works. I got to get my calculator out here.
I'll give it to you, but I believe that 20 to $25 an hour range gets you there. It does.
It's well over that. Let's just go $20 an hour times 40 hours a week for those that's 800.
So it's 3,200 a month. So that does it.
Don't tell me that in America today that you can't go get a $20 an hour job or a $15 an hour job and then a $16 an hour job. My point is, I'm going to take care of my wife and I'm going to take care of my baby.
That's what I think. Carissa, the issue here is not that there is a lack of opportunity out there for him to go do that so that you can have the desires met.

The ball in a sense is in the relational court of your marriage,

not the financial,

because there is something that he,

a mental block he has,

whatever his thing is,

and that's your issue.

And now to get a man to see that,

a husband to see that, who is in a belief system, obviously, that is not that, that is counter it, is difficult. You know what the bro needs? He needs some grit.
Good old-fashioned grit. Hey, dude, I know it sucks.
Go landscape. I know it sucks.
Go do some manual labor. That's what I would tell them.
Get some grit, man. I wish I had a big fake, what do you call those things? I'm blanking out.
You give people a shot. What do you call it? A syringe? Thank you.
I need a big, giant, fake syringe, James, and it's filled with grit. I'll get right on that.
Thank you. I bring it out on calls like this.
I know this is horrible and they're making fun of me, but it's making the point. And I just hold it up.
I go, you need a shot of this, my man. Help this woman out so that she can go home and take care of her babies.
Because we've talked about this before on this show. Because she wants to.
This is her desires. Being a stay-at-home mom is the highest honor and the greatest job on the planet.
Period. That's what I think.
I love it. My heart's that, Ken.
I mean it. Amen, hallelujah.
I mean it. Well, let me tell you, it's harder work to do that than to do what I'm doing right here, chatting with adults.
Right. And by the way, that's not, that's right.
Seriously, it is very difficult. And by the way, that's not to say.
To be a stay-at-home mom. That I knock professional women.
No, no. Listen, my wife, different seasons, was working outside of the home.
One of my dearest friends on the planet, my little sis right here, she does it. I'm not knocking.
I'm just saying we got to get to a point where there's no shame for stay-atat-home mom and the ideal within a marriage family unit like this is that both people individually that your desires your needs your wants your passions in life all of it like how do we both how do we how are we able to live in a world where both of you have that and you can support each other within it right so that's holistically i think what makes think, what makes part of a really healthy, beautiful relationship when that is in play. It doesn't happen all the time.
It doesn't happen every season. But when you're kind of in that rhythm.
That's right. And so when you can do that for each other.
So for Helm, that's what I would say to Helm, is like there is a level of sacrifice. Yes.
And in reality and grown-up world that you're an adult with kids, like you to go have a job. You have to make money.
And then if your wife is able to stay at home after you go and do those things because that's her desire, that's beautiful. That is something that we should all be reaching for to do the things that we want, right? That's a great point.
I know that you and I could speak to this, but there are many times in our two marriages where each one of our spouses has made sacrifices for us. Yes.
To do what we get to do. That's right.
Yes. With the travel and the speaking.
Yes, totally. Multiple.
We could go down a list. And I think it's really important what you said that, you know, at there are times where one of the spouse has got to make some massive sacrifices for the other spouse, knowing that your season is coming.
And it's just part of the deal. I believe that both can have what they want.
They may not get it at the same time. No, that's right.
But when you can set it up. So, yeah.
It's a really good point. It's a long-winded answer for us.
And I want to say this too. We're talking about in this case, $30,000.
We're talking about the, I'm giving this guy a hard time with my fake grit syringe and all the stuff I'm saying, but he could, he could get to the point pretty quickly where she could come home. Yes.
Well, and their bills, I mean, they owe, you know, 3,700 on medical, which, you know, it's not 15,000. It's 3,'s 3 700 they got a car payment that's a big chunk but if 300 a month and in the in the scope of life though is what i'm saying is that this is manageable this is manageable right this isn't two car loans that are 900 each a student loan 15 000 in medical debt you know 90 000 like it's not this like overwhelming amount this.
It's going to have to be, yeah. Does he make the decision to do it or not? So boy needs some grit.
Good luck to you. Carissa will be mailing out that.
The syringe. James has already got one.
He's Googled it. It's going to be ordered.
It's going to be great. It's going to be a great prop.
America's going to love it. For a great hour.
Thanks to everyone in the booth. And thank you, Ken Coleman.

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That's B-Y-R-N-A dot com slash Dave. Live from Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships.
I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with my good friend and bestselling author Ken Coleman,

and we'll be answering your questions.

So give us a call at 888-825-5225, and we'll chat about your life, your money, anything

and everything.

So give us a call.

Up first, we have Hunter starting us off in Oklahoma City.

Hey, Hunter.

Welcome to the show.

Thank you. and everything.
So give us a call. Up first, we have Hunter starting us off in Oklahoma City.
Hey, Hunter, welcome to the show. Hi, how are you guys? We are doing great.
How can we help? So I just finished the Complete Money Makeover book. Me and my husband have been living off of a budget for the past year or so, and we were able to pay off our cards last year, and now we're just working on the remainder, which is our student debt.
So we currently have $39,000 in student debt. Part of that's my husband's, and then the other part is mine, and we have $20,000 in savings right now.
So I'm just wondering, would it be better to pay off like my husband's student loan right now, which is $15,000. So pay it off right now.
Or if we stay on track with our budget, we would be able to pay off the remainder within like pay it off altogether within the next four months and just pay it off like at one time. And I'm just wondering which one do you guys think would be better so the question is do you pay you know pay one of them off today because you have the money or do you wait for four months and then pay them all off together uh I'm going to pay it off yeah go ahead and pay it today I mean I would I would start that momentum because as soon as you can hit the principal um and get that lowered then everything else ends up being more in your favor even over the next four months.
So I would, yeah, I would for sure go ahead and pay some money off today, get that momentum going. So let me ask a question to you.
What would keep you from paying the big chunk of it today? What's keeping you guys from doing that? You know, we just, my husband just got a bonus and I just got a raise within like the last like couple of weeks. So we kind of just acquired like a large amount into our savings account, which is super exciting.
And I don't think that there's anything that's like stopping us. We're both on the same page of like, okay, we're so excited to pay off debt.
Like we're pumped about it because it can happen really soon. We've both been blessed immensely.
But I think, I just think of how exciting it would be to just pay it off all at one time and then just be done with it. I think that that's just what's exciting to me is like, oh, we could do it that way.
But the other part is to just pay it off now and then pay off the other half later. Let me tell you why.
Let me tell you, and I love that answer. And I believe you.
I think that's an honest answer. The challenge is the humanness in all of us.
And so what happens or what could happen? Let me put it this way. What could happen, Rachel, at any point, tell me if you think this is off.
I will. Always.
Oh, I know. Like I even had to say that.
But you got that money in the bank and it sits there. And the whole goal, it's earnest.
It's honest. It's well-intentioned.
We're going to wait until we get the whole chunk of $39,000. Then we're going to pay it off.
It's going to be woohoo and great fun. Okay.
But you sit that money in the bank and you keep looking at that. You wake up every day and you wake up differently when you get a big chunk of change that goes in the account.
You just do. You wake up.
I do. Yeah, it feels great.
And I go, I wake up and I go, oh my God, X amount of dollars in the bank. And what happens is you get real comfortable with that money sitting in that account.
And then you don't want to actually have that money leave. I remember the first time we got a fully funded emergency fund years and years ago.
We first started this process long before I worked for Dave. An emergency would come up and I was coming up with ways.
Not to use it. To not use it.
Yes, totally. I'm making this up.
$3,000 emergency. And I'm selling stuff, breaking my back, stressing out.
And CeCe would go, we have the money. And I go, I know, but I don't want to pull it out of the account.
Yes, totally. And so just being, I think, honest, the human condition is to hold on to that.
And then life comes up and an opportunity comes up to do something. You go, oof, we could pay off the student loan debt, Rachel, or we could go on this trip.
And I think that's why we always say act now. That's right.
Get the win today. And I mean today.
And you're still going to feel great when you're paying off the 19,000, right? You may be paying, you know, 4,000 next month, 5,000 the next, like you're going to be chomping away at the 19,000 remaining. And it's still going to continue to feel great.
And that momentum, what Ken's saying, you just kind of keep on this track and this trajectory and you're going to do it. So Hunter, great job.
You agree with that, by the way. We tend to sit on the money.
100%. Well, and people, hers is pretty short term being four months.
Some people that are like, oh, I could wait 18 months for sure. Don't do that because a Christmas trip comes up with the family and you want to travel and you pull some, you know what I mean? Like you end up not really sticking to the plan.
So as much as as you can just staying on track helps your behaviors and the rhythms of your life all right up next we have is it nadine in chattanooga i'm gonna say nadine nadine did i yeah which one's right i'm so sorry nadine that's why you have me i'm always your pronunciation guy gosh the phonics that's why i'm here it's tough all right how can we help there. Thanks for having me.
It's Nadine. Thank you.
One point for Ken. I'm in a bit of a weird pickle in a sense.
I inherited my family's farm, my parents' farm, and some money. And it excluded my siblings.
Why? Now they're, I, well, two out of three of them are millionaires, so the original will kind of mention like $10,000 each. And then my dad had mentioned after my mom passed that he's going to put the farm in the trust, the little pass through without probate, and he was going to change the will.
I had no idea he'd cut out my siblings. And now they're all mad at me because they think I'm the one who did it.
Oh, interesting. No.
Yeah. So it's kind of like opposite of winning the lottery.
You know, everyone wants to be your friend when you win. But when you inherit something, they feel like you're the bad person.
Sure. And even if I were to, I mean, $10,000 is not going to make a huge difference in their lives.
Is that all that's left? Is that what you're saying? If you did split it four ways, is it just $10,000 to each person? Is that what it what it would be no actually they that was my parents are savers so there was a little bit more than that okay so what's your question for us is it what to do yeah I mean 10,000 seems so nominal to be petty about but even if I were to give it to them I feel like. Well, hold on a second.
I'm still confused, and we have only about a minute here. Is the amount that was given to you is how much? It was over, well, with the farm and everything, it was like half a million.
Okay, where do you keep coming up with this $10,000 number? I don't understand. That was in the original will that my dad had before my mom passed.
And is that what they're wanting? Is that $10,000 or are they wanting a fourth of the $500,000? That's the thing. I'm not sure.
Well, why don't you sit down with your siblings and have an honest conversation and go, guys, I had nothing to do with this. And that's why I wanted to have the conversation.
What do you all prefer we do?

What do you all think is fair, if that's what you want to do?

Now, you've got two directions.

You can either say, I'm going to honor dad's will, and I'm going to deal with the fallout,

or I don't want to deal with the fallout.

I love my siblings.

Let's get in a room and solve it.

Yeah, we're all adults here.

Let's figure it out.

This is pretty easy.

And again, if they are competent, healthy people, and you can do that, that's great.

Millionaires, too. Yeah, it's true.
true. I hope that helps.
Thanks for the call. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.
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Grab your tickets at RamseySolutions.com slash tour before they're gone. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show.
I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Ken Coleman and we're going to Wilmington, North Carolina and talking to Jeff. Hey Jeff, welcome to the show.
Hey guys, thanks for taking my call. Absolutely.
How can we help? so I'm powering through the baby steps I'm about halfway through baby step two

I'm paying off all my debts

and I've gotten to my next smallest debt

which is my wife's student loans. The balance is about $8,500.
And with our debt snowball, we can kill this in about four months. And I'm ready to do so.
But there's a caveat that I can't find the answer to. So it went into default before we were married.
And we have now entered a loan rehabilitation program with the Department of Education. And the deal is, if we make nine months of consecutive payments, they'll remove the default status from the loans and transfer it back out to a normal servicer.
So I'm left with two options. Either A, I can bet snowball this and kill it in four months, but I'm stuck with that word default on my credit history, even though it's a paid in full account, or I stretch it out, keep accruing that interest and go through the program to remove the word default from my credit history and just do it that way.
And I really don't know which one's more, or I should say less harmful to me. Well, the only reason I'd be really concerned is if you were needing your credit score, credit reports for a reason, right? So the main reason someone would pull your credit score obviously is to go into more debt.
Also your credit report, if you're looking for a new job, you know, maybe an employer pulls it. But if there's any situation that they pull your credit report, and you have another human that you're talking to, and being able to discuss and talk through why that is why it is, and be able to explain it, then I would, I mean, I would get out.
I don't like, I always hate playing the system game of trying to like, you know, figure our way through it because of this, that, or that, you know what I mean? I like the idea of paying it off, being done with it. And then in the next 12 to 18 months, if someone pulls your credit report for a reason, to be able to actually have a human conversation about why that word defaulted is on there.
And honestly, Jeff, when it comes to student loans and defaulting and all that

with COVID and everything that happened,

like you're not going to be

the only one either.

Like, I mean, it's not like it's this,

you know, thing.

Now it may drop,

it may hurt your credit score.

So if you guys are, you know,

if you're going to go borrow money,

which I wouldn't suggest you do,

then it could hurt that,

you know, the loan process.

But I don't want you doing that anyways.

Okay. You don't think it'll haunt me when I try to get a mortgage in a couple of years? Not in a couple of years.
At that point, your credit score will basically be non-existent because if you stop borrowing money after this and you're done with debt completely, your credit score will continue to actually get worse because the way the credit score is calculated, you need new debt recurring to continue and paying on it to keep that credit score high.

So when you stop this process, and anyone listening that is doing the debt snowball,

always know this.

Your credit score is going to go down until it gets to undetermined.

It basically gets to zero.

And then when you do that and go and buy a home, they're going to pull it and see that you don't have a credit score because you haven't borrowed money in over two years.

And you can do what's called manual underwriting and get a mortgage that way. Okay.
Thank you very much. Yep.
Absolutely. Thanks for the call, Jeff.
So that's, yeah, that's a big, that's a big reason I get so annoyed with this whole industry is they like make you play these games, right? And if you're like, I'm not playing your games and I'm going to figure out a way to actually do the plan that I want to do. And I want to get out of debt in four months and not wait nine, 10, 11 months to play this game.
It's so frustrating because a lot of people, I mean, it's a very legitimate question that Jeff asked. And I think a lot of people get in those situations and they're like, yeah, what do I do? But when you just kind of don't play their game, it's amazing that you can still survive.
And really a different form of consolidation, the best consolidation is the baby steps and the snowball. Really the debt snowball does, it's like you're consolidating your money towards that debt.
That's where the greatest momentum is. It's not through one of these consolidation programs.
It's like, all right, I'm going to consolidate my own payments and really work that debt snowball. That is absolutely

the number one psychological and financial way to pay off debt, period. It just works.
Up next, we have Stacey in Philadelphia. Hey, Stacey, welcome to the show.
hi um thank you for having me absolutely my question, so I have a bit of problems, me and my husband. We recently purchased a house over the summer, and we've gotten into a lot of pretty much debt, even more than we had before, just from purchasing the home with renovations.
So we want to know what

steps should we prioritize to manage and pay off our current debt given we have you know the renovation loan that we took out, our student loans, and car payment and even with credit card debt. Okay will you give me a list of the numbers of everything so like how much in credit card debt, how much in car debt, everything.
Okay. So the car we owe about 15,000.
Okay. Student loans, it's about 130 for the both of us.
Okay. Yeah.
And that's just our undergraduate loan. And then our renovation loans, we took out about 70,000.
Okay. And then with credit card debt in total with both my husband and I, it's about, I would say, $60,000.
What were you using the credit cards for? Yeah, so we used the credit cards. Just a little bit back story.
When we took out the loans was to pay a contractor to do work in our home,

but the contractor did not finish everything that he did not actually complete what he promised to do.

So we ended up having to use our credit card to cover a lot of the other expenses.

We had other contractors and even people to come in and fix some of the issues that he had left with the house, along with just buying appliances and everything. All right.
What's your combined income? So maybe about $75,000. It would be close with his two jobs, roughly about $180,000.
Okay. And you said that's for our undergrad.
When I asked you about student loans, do you guys have more student loans that's not undergrad? Or you're just saying we just have our undergrad degrees? Yeah, just our undergrad degree. Okay, perfect.
All right. So, Stacey, I need to know your why.
What's making you guys want to clean all this up because yeah yeah you kind of got a mess on your hands and what's what kind of got you to this point of oh gosh we got to start paying this off well one um he ended up getting a part-time job and it's just been a lot uh where all of our money is just going towards bills where we find that we don't have any other wiggle room to do anything else. Yeah.
And then we just, in March, we'll make us celebrate our two-year anniversary since we've gotten married. So we're a pretty young couple.
And my husband would like to go back to school eventually and go into medical school. And he has that dream since he was a child.

So essentially, we would love to pay off our debt

so we can start living our lives again.

What's his degree in?

Right now, we're just drowning.

What world is he in right now?

You said he's got a full-time job and a part-time job?

Yes, they're both in the health field.

Okay, and is the part-time job just to help pay these bills? Yes. Oh, okay.
I got you. Well, you guys are going to have to dig out of this.
Yeah. We've got a plan.
So, I mean, Stacy, here's that. One of the reasons I ask you why is because you're going to have to feel that really deeply in this process because you guys have, you know, you are going to have to have a lot of intentionality because there's a lot of debt here and so what you're going to look at and I'm just running the numbers I'm like if you guys made 180 and even if you went and got an extra job and made a thousand dollars more right you could get up to 192 like you could you guys could be on the brink of of 200,000 income and completely scorched earth in your lifestyle, not going on vacation, not going out to eat, doing zero more furniture buying, no renovations, no trips with friends, no celebration on the two year.
Sell a car. Nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing.
And if you can do that and you guys could live on, let's say 70,000 a000 a year, you got $120,000 to $130,000 freed up, and you can sit there, pay off that car. You go down the list.
So it's the car, it's the credit cards, and then next is the Renault, and then the student loans. So you go smallest to largest.
And if you have multiple credit cards in that, then I would split those up where you have each individual card within that debt snowball. Again, listing all of your debts, smallest to largest, pay minimum payments on everything, Stacey, and attack that smallest debt first and working your way out of this.
It's going to take some time and intentionality, but you can do this. All right, Dave, you have some strong opinions.
Possibly, yeah. I think so.
Because you really prefer credit unions over big banks. So why is that? Well, credit unions, for one thing, are non-profit, which means that the members, the customers, own the credit union.
So any profits that the credit union makes goes back into customer pricing. So you get better interest rate on savings, cheaper checking, and so on, that kind of thing.
But what's more important than that, though, is the fact that the customer is the owner changes the spirit on the credit union. So I find very few credit unions that aren't very customer-centric.
Yes. Well, and I think we have found one that is incredible, and that's Fairwinds.
They are an incredible credit union that is really out with the heart to help the customer. You know, that's why we're partnering with them, because they've got a scope to be able to handle the Ramsey audience, and they're the right kind of people with the right kind of values.
And they've done a really, really good job with customer service, and the deals that they're offering, the Ramsey tribe is incredible. Yeah, absolutely.
And you're right. Their customer service is unbelievable.
Winston and I just signed up and we got an account. And I'm not kidding.
It took less than five minutes. It was so user-friendly.
The step-by-step approach was unbelievable. And then the next day, my phone rings and it says fair wins on on my phone.
So I answered it and talked to someone there and they said, yeah, they give calls to every new customer. And so again, they just really care about your experience.
And I so, so appreciate that. So again, you guys, I know it can be a pain to switch banks or to open up new accounts, but Fairwinds, again, they make it so easy.
Plus anything that you can do at a traditional branch, you can do with them at fairwinds.org or on their app. And you'll have free access to over 33,000 ATMs.
Hey, you guys know how much I hate banks in general. And so for me to do this is a big deal.
Talk to our friends at Fairwinds and check out the combined checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsey tribe. You guys, it's incredible.
Yeah, you guys, it's so easy to join Fairwinds no matter where you live. So go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey to learn more.
That's F-A-I-R-W-I-N-D-S dot org slash Ramsey. Listen, guys, I've heard just about every excuse for why folks think they can't get ahead with money.
So let's go ahead and settle this right now. The truth is you get to decide what happens with your money.
And if you want to start winning with money, you have to get on a budget. The Every Dollar Budget app makes it easy for you to plan every dollar you've got coming in and every dollar going out.
Plus, it's free. So no more excuses.
Go download every dollar in the App Store or Google Play today. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show.
Coming up next, we have Jana in Phoenix, Arizona. Hey, Jana, welcome to the show.
Hi there. hi there hello hello how can we help hi well i'm making this phone call a little earlier than i anticipated my husband and i have worked really hard and paid off our home at will we'll have paid off our home this january we have our last um like five thousand dollars left on our home and we'll be paid at the end of the month.
Oh my gosh, Jana. We're really looking forward to doing our debt screen with you guys.
That's amazing. I mean, paid off and everything.
Yeah, just $5,000 left. However, I'm really, actually, I wish I could be celebrating and I'm so upset right now.
My husband just left our home at 3 o'clock this morning to drive across the country to buy a brand new truck. I guess this is his way of celebrating, but we haven't even done it yet.
Unfortunately, we're going to have to take out a car loan for the brand new truck that he is traveling across the country for. And I'm just so angry and also hurt.
This is not something i agreed on this is a total surprise i just i just feel i'm so mad and angry and upset yeah and um what a big you know um what a big columbus we had and now we're just i feel like we're just that clean slate that we have is just being pounded on with another um with more

debt okay so was he on board all this time like he's been with you yeah we've been we are the dream team yes i don't know what when did you find out about this car purchase was this like yesterday saying it forever like forever he wants this for you know the factor like dave ramsey and and so I just always

I'm like after a house has paid off

after a house is paid off after a house is paid off after a house is paid off and obviously when we can afford it right i'm not taking out a loan and he just okay so if i heard you right okay so if i heard you right he got up this morning at 3 a.m today and and and told you hey uh i'm heading out and you say i mean please don't and he says you don't even know he doesn't discuss this at all he just literally says matter of fact i'm going across the country to get a raptor like dave ramsey um i mean we've had lots of talks on this truck and he knows I don't agree. And he says, I'll never agree.
I don't handle well big purchases. Well, I just paid off a $300,000 home.
I can handle big purchases. I just can't handle down.
So, so, okay. You got to give us a little bit more here.
I'm sorry. I'm going to dig a little bit, Rachel.
Okay. All right.
So this conversation, he's been on board and paying off the house and the debt and the baby steps but how long has the i'm going to go into debt for a raptor how long has that conversation been going on and when was the last time it was had before 3 a.m this morning right so maybe for the past two months he's like i going to do it. I don't care what it takes.
And you say, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not on board with you. Not at all.
I don't agree. Okay.
So while today was the day that he'd been kind of tipping his hand that he was going to go do this and I'm going to go get a loan. How big is the loan? Well, I probably, well, he's going to trade in his truck.
We had another $30,000 and so I think it'll be around $30,000. And how much is left on the house again? Five? Yeah.
So I really, in the big scheme of things, we'll pay it off quickly. I'm just angry.
How much, how much do you get? Well, yeah, I mean, it's, yeah, and the anger and the hurt comes from not being heard at all and that your opinion doesn't matter, that there's no pause in the person you're doing life with, your partner, your spouse, that there's no back and forth. It's this, like, dominant one way and, you know, I'm not going to to listen to you I'm going to do what I want to do um that is hurtful in anything right and this could be a husband calling us and his wife's like I don't care I'm going to go do what I want to do like I mean it doesn't you know it's not a um look you know a wife husband thing it's a it's a spouse right like you're you're Rachel and I commiserate with you we're here to listen here to encourage you but I can tell you right now this is a this is a marriage therapy session or two or three or six I'm serious that's how I feel today for sure I just does this sound like him Jana I'm curious the I'm like is this uh oh yeah I can see him doing this.
I can't believe he's driving across country for this.

Well, not that, but I'm just saying not listening to you.

Not the actual idea of buying a truck,

but this idea that he would go make a decision

that you so adamantly do not want him to make,

and he still makes it.

Is this a pattern?

Yeah, does that happen in other parts of your marriage?

No, not at all.

Not at all.

We have a great marriage and great relationship.

Yeah, you know, and I think this guy has been on board, and he was like, okay, this all makes a lot of sense, but what also makes sense is after we do all this, we can handle the truck payment, and I'm going to go do it. He's been telegraphing this for months.
Yeah, how much do you guys make a year yeah um i brought in um i think 137 last year and he we haven't finished up his yet but it's between 140 and 145 yeah yeah i don't think this is a crisis based on what i'm hearing but i do think this is a this is a marital no listen i i'm trying validate your feelings. Everything you're feeling, I completely understand.
And I completely understand why you're feeling that. I think you should feel that.
But I don't think that there's only so much. And I'm saying this philosophically.
There's only so much, Rachel, I can do today other than say, man, we feel you. I don't think that's right.
I don't think it's a good marriage move. Should have talked it through.
Should have come up with an alternative plan. He knows how much this means to you.
But then I will also say the reason that why I believe you guys need to sit with a marriage therapist is because I can also see, I don't agree with his action at all, but I think I'm seeing a window into this dude.

And I think he thinks

it's justified, and

here's what I would say. Not knowing him at

all, and if I met him for the

first time, I said, hey,

Jana just called me on the show, and she

told me what happened. Hey, listen, bro.

I don't

think you think that's as big a deal as it is.

It's a big deal.

He's minimized it.

I think so. And I think because he's justified...
And because he makes almost $300,000 a year. He's crunched numbers.
We're paid off the house. We have no debt.
We'll pay it off in two months or whatever. In his mind, and I'm not defending him, but I am trying to make maybe, Jana, you feel a little bit better.
I think this is a situation where he is completely unaware of how he is truly making you feel. I think he's clueless, and I'm not insulting him.
I'm saying we are all that way in relationships at times where we are in a place where we're not healthy enough or we're not attached enough that we don't realize what we're doing. Yeah, in the truck conversations that you guys have been having in the last few months, Jana, have you said, I would love for you to get this truck.
Let's map it out. And in May, let's take a road trip and go pick up this truck together.
I'm so excited for this truck for you. Did you have any excitement and celebratoriness towards this truck for him at any level? No, Rachel, I did not.
Okay. No, that's fair.
I appreciate your honesty. I appreciate your honesty.
I have a hard time with it. Yeah.
So I think that's going to be the relational rub that you guys are feeling is he doesn't feel, I'm assuming, we're all guessing here, that you are so gung-ho onho on this you don't want to spend any money you're fear-based you're scarcity-minded life is fine we make 300 thousand dollars a year in the grand scheme of things yes in six months none of this is going to matter janna have some fun i can't i'm gonna now i'm gonna have to go make my own fun and enjoy this. And again, not the right move, not the right move.

But right.

That's his mindset.

So you guys, you guys have to come together.

And that's where, Jana, I would really push you and him.

I hope he I hope he listens to this call that that that you have to embrace the differences

of your spouse and that your spouse's differences is not the enemy.

And in fact, they can make you a healthier rounded person because he's going to bring things to the table janna that may make you uncomfortable not debt but the fun and the spending and he's going to bring that and you need to embrace life and he's going to help you do that and then also he doesn't need to be a freaking i won't say it and just like i gotta basically middle finger your wife and go in the middle of the night and go get a truck. That was not okay help you do that.
And then also, he doesn't need to be a freaking, I won't say it, and just like basically middle

finger your wife and go in the middle of the night and go get a truck.

That was not okay.

I do not agree with that.

I got to add this.

Our friend, mutual friend, Ian Cron, we were together yesterday.

He said, when we're upset at somebody over their behavior, we're really irritated.

He goes, it reveals in us something where we can grow.

And I'm adding that onto what your advice and your insight. I thought that was really good.
We're going to leave it there. Pay this truck off.
Thanks, Jana. Pay the truck off.
You'll be okay. I'm sorry though.
Get a therapist in there. It'll be good.
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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. When it comes to your money, Ken, one of the largest purchases that majority of people make is their home.
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So if you're ready to take the next step towards your home goals with peace of mind, make sure to go to RamseySolutions.com slash real estate or click the link in the description if you are listening on YouTube or podcast. All right, up next, we're going to Diego in Sacramento.
Hey, Diego, welcome to the show. Hi, thank you.
Absolutely. My wife and I just had a baby and we've been having a discussion about opening a college account for him at 529.
And my wife's on the side of saving as much as we can, enough to pay for his whole college tuition. And I'm more on the side of maybe not doing that just because, you know, for me, when I went to school, I didn't have that.
And I think it built a lot of character in myself. You know, my parents, they provided a place for me to sleep.
You know, they didn't charge me any rent. And, you know, they provided food for me every day.
So I felt like I was really blessed that in what they gave me, you know, what they could. And I felt like it, you know, it built some character in me.
I worked through school and, you know, showed me like, you know, the value of money and how, you know, um, you know, what I'm paying for for school. It just showed me the value.
I just wanted to get your guys' opinion on whether maybe there's a middle point between my wife and I or maybe you should just avoid it altogether or saving all of it that we can. That good thing.
Well, I think this comes down to, Rachel,

how big of a stressor this is for you guys when you talk about it.

Are you both pretty adamant and it gets kind of tense

and there's a lot of separation,

or are you guys a couple more conversations from going,

okay, I see it your way.

I mean, what's the real tension level now on this?

Oh, super low. I mean, we're very good about, you know, communicating.
We've never had a problem with that. So when you told her your point of view, did she agree with you and go, oh, that's interesting? Or did she go, eh, it's too old school and I want to help? No, yeah, she says, yeah, pretty much what you're saying.
Yeah, like she would prefer, you know, us having more, you know, better means than our parents did. She's saying, like, we should afford something in our kids that we didn't have.
So let me tell you, Diego, the way you're going about this and your heart and your thought process I really love because I do think that our kids have to have grit. Our kids have to have a level of struggle.
Our kids have to be able to know how to appreciate things, not be entitled, know how to work hard, right? Like all of these elements of who they're going to be, the character part of them, we all want as parents, right? Or at least I hope parents want that for their kids. And that's what you're wanting, right? And so what you're thinking is you're going to do it through the means of paying for their own college so where i would challenge you is are there other places that they can learn those same character qualities and and and also be able to have their college paid for because my parents paid for my college and i'll tell you there was stipulations around it and so we had to go to an in-state school we had to graduate in four years and that was kind of the main barriers so I remember thinking you know I wanted to go to Auburn University and I remember dad being like all right well calculate the tuition and the difference between a school in Tennessee a public university in Tennessee minus the tuition of a school in Alabama pay the difference.
And I looked and I was like, no, thanks. Go Vols.
I'll go and stay. And then it was all right.
Well, now I have to take 15 hours every semester while some of my friends were taking nine. So, you know, cause people will graduate a semester late or a year later and they kind of just like worked their way through.
I had to be on a, you i mean like i i had to have that schedule so i think it's a misnomer to generalize if your school is paid for you're not going to have hard work and grit i don't think that's true i think it's a way that you feel that winston my husband you know he had to work his way through not the tuition part but everything else he had to figure he had to have a job to pay rent and pay for food and all of that right so um but i so i think that there are ways to accomplish what you want for your kids and it may look different and i'll give you one more example then i'll be quiet like can jump in but like for us right now diego we have a nine seven and five year old and winston sold his lawnmower about three years ago and we we have a lawn company mow our lawn. And he really, really struggled with our kids not growing up watching him mow the lawn.
Because he had a lawn care business in college. And he was like, I want my kids to see physically.
He was so hard on himself on that. But then as we talked, he was like, but right now time is better spent with them on saturdays than going and doing that what are ways now that we almost have to manufacture a life where they don't get what they want they're gonna have to work and do things to get what they want so does that make sense i just don't want to over generalize that if your college is paid for you're going to be some spoiled entitled brat because let me tell you there probably are some spoiled entitled brats whose college is paid for and isn't paid for, but it's more of the character of who they are.
And maybe it's revealed to that. And I'm glad you really segued nicely for me.
You didn't even know. I'm going to throw a different angle at you, Diego.
Because on one hand, I love the fact that you're going, I don't owe my kids a college education, and I don't think you do. But I'm not going to qualify this.
I'm just going to say this, and this comes from experience. Diego, just because you worked your way through college and you took all the benefits that you obviously did doesn't mean that your child or children are going to do the same as you.
They aren't you, number one. They really aren't.
They aren't you. They will have some of your DNA, but they are not you.
And they will have different experiences. They will have different environments growing up.
And I think one of the challenges that we face, and I'm just being really vulnerable here that I've had to learn as a father of three is that the things that I did, the things that I learned, the way that I handled life is so unique to me. And I know I'm saying something that's completely obvious, but I think we forget this.
And I would just say that in this case, if you played this out the way that you desire, let's say your wife just went, I love that, Diego.

Let's do that.

There's a really high, high probability that one or both or all of your kids, however many you have, won't deal with it the way that you dealt with it.

And they may go, dad's out of his mind, the old coot.

He's a goofball.

And I'm going to go get a student loan because I can.

And they get it done so effortlessly. And the very thing that you idealized and kind of thought, this is how I see it going, it would even break your heart.
And so to that end, I would say, if you can fund it, you should. As an option.
And the 529 as we teach, I'll give it back to my partner here. It's flexible as it's flexible as to how you can use those funds for lots of qualifications because the world, here's the other thing.
The world's changing. The world is changing so quickly right now.
What will higher ed look like when these babies are to that age? You and I have zero clue what it's going to look like. So I hope that perspective helps you.
I don't think it's as easy as you just going, this is how I want it to be because that's how it was for me. And I get that.
If anybody gets that, believe me, I actually talk like that sometimes. Is that, you know me well, I'm trying to be transparent.
And I think that's true. And I think, and again, I want to reiterate Diego, the sentiment of what you're longing for your kids to have is so good.
Like, that is so good. Absolutely.
Because we want our kids to be able to do that. And you're right.
Other ways to do it. But I think that there is.
I'm like, there's different other, and there's so much between. And like, have them pay for their car when they're 60.
Right? I mean, like, there's things you can implement along the way. Have them try an instrument.
A sport. A hobby.
Let them fail. And they're going to.
And the world's hard enough in general sport a hobby let them fail and they're going to

and the world's hard enough in general right i'm like they're they're gonna bump up against it but i think you can create an environment with your within your home between now and 18 um that creates you know i i knock on wood i believe this and i hope it's true you You know, not perfect kids, but kids that you are

able to shape under your household and you as a parent get to put some of those guardrails in

place. And if you give them everything they want, are they going to be more spoiled? Sure.
If they

got to work and figure out and problem solve, then that's going to be good for them too. So I

think there's ways you can do it. But thanks for the call, Diego.
Thanks for all the guys in the

booth. Thank you, Ken Coleman.
Thank you, America. We'll be back.
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Watch as they navigate the highs and lows of this journey and as I walk alongside of them every step of the way. Okay, now here's a little sneak peek of what the new episode is all about.
What's going on, Heather? I'm just, I'm tired of debt controlling me in all aspects of my life. She's got a lot going on.
We've got to simplify it. She's got the farm, the divorce, the debt.
We're just praying the money's there, I guess. You can't breathe.
Are you ready to commit to it? Are you going to do it? I need help. I'm done with it.
I'm getting the truck listed and putting that up for sale. My gosh, it's good to see you.
Do I want to pet a chicken? No. I see you doing a lot that wasn't even part of the homework.
And we're only at the 30-day point. I want to be on set.
So let's go through divorce, right? There's no guarantee that the bank would let her keep the house. I want you to start dreaming what another living situation might look like if it doesn't go your way.

It's not what I want to do, but it's not always what I want to do.

Very few people are sitting on one variable that could change everything.

It's just really hard.

And it's scary.

I can't keep this up for another year.