Your Life Is More Than Just a Set of Numbers

Speaker 1 From Ramsey Network, this is the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships.

Speaker 1 I'm Ramsey personality George Campbell, joined by my good friend, Dr. John Deloney, and we are here for you.

Speaker 1 We want to help you take the right next step with your life, your money, your relationships, whatever's going on. So give us a call at 888-825-5225.

Speaker 1 Chad is going to kick us off in Orlando, Florida. What's going on, Chad?

Speaker 2 Hey, how's it going?

Speaker 1 Good. How are you?

Speaker 2 Thank you, guys, for

Speaker 2 letting me on the show.

Speaker 2 I started

Speaker 2 my business. I'm in the construction industry.
I started my business in 2017.

Speaker 2 Rainford until the end of 2019, then started working for somebody and then picked up my business again in 2022

Speaker 2 until recent until uh today still. And uh,

Speaker 2 I

Speaker 2 never paid taxes and I've never filed business taxes, and I'm at a point now where I don't know where to, I don't know what to do. I don't know where to start.

Speaker 3 Have you guesstimated how bad it is?

Speaker 3 Let me ask you this way.

Speaker 3 Have you made money? Have you done well over the last few years?

Speaker 2 The past two years have been very well.

Speaker 1 Do you have any money currently? You got money saved?

Speaker 2 I mean,

Speaker 2 probably around 10 grand is it.

Speaker 3 Oh, boy.

Speaker 2 And I don't know. I don't even know where to begin.
And

Speaker 2 trying to

Speaker 2 do everything right. And this is something that keeps me up.

Speaker 1 What stopped you? Because you knew day one, all right, I got a business, I make money, I got to pay the piper. What caused you to go, I'm going to bury my head in the sand?

Speaker 1 Did it just become too much after year one or two or what?

Speaker 2 Yeah, the first year was a little rough,

Speaker 2 just trying to make it. And then the second year was pretty decent, but

Speaker 2 it was still, you know, still rough.

Speaker 2 I was basically

Speaker 2 using everything to just pay for my life, pay for my everything.

Speaker 1 So when was your last tax return that you filed? What year?

Speaker 2 So I did one last year.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 I have my business and I still work full-time with a company. So I have a W-2 that I have filed.

Speaker 2 So I've been filing W-2s, but it's my side business that's been...

Speaker 3 So if you had to ballpark

Speaker 3 the last seven years,

Speaker 3 what you've made

Speaker 3 minus what you've

Speaker 3 like

Speaker 3 to do. Your profit.
Your profit. Right.

Speaker 3 Times 35%.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 I mean, what's 35% of that profit number, do you think?

Speaker 3 Are you talking $100,000? Are you talking $500,000?

Speaker 2 No, it's not near that. It's probably around $100,000 at this point.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 2 I would say.

Speaker 3 What's your call to conscience? Is it just like new year, new you, like 2025? We've got to get this thing right now.

Speaker 2 No,

Speaker 2 I've been trying to figure out what to do for probably about a year now, and

Speaker 2 I'm at the point now,

Speaker 2 I have to secure the rest of my future

Speaker 2 with my family, and I got to

Speaker 2 everything's I have to be, I have to do everything right now.

Speaker 3 So, George is going to walk you through it, but I want to tell you two things. Number one,

Speaker 3 we could sit here and beat you up for being dumb over the last seven years. You got a family not going to do that.
I'm going to tell you, I'm proud of you for today being the day.

Speaker 3 We're going to come clean. We're going to get this thing right.
Okay.

Speaker 3 Yes, I appreciate that. Second thing is, you have put put an extra 10 years of life miles on your heart and on your brain.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 And let this be the moment that if you have a hard conversation with your wife, with your kids, with your kids' schools, with what, an employee, that we're going to handle that stuff as they come up day of so that we don't add any extra miles to our soul, right?

Speaker 2 Absolutely.

Speaker 3 Good on you. All right.
This is going to, hey. This is going to suck.
All right. It's not going to be fun.

Speaker 3 But we're going to get on it. We're going to do it right.

Speaker 1 So, Chad, the first thing, like John was talking about, we need to assess the damage.

Speaker 1 So, you need to get all the financial records you can, figure out what amounts are owed, income, payroll, taxes, federal, state, local, you name it.

Speaker 1 Get all the documents you can get, expense records, prior tax filings. Once you have all that, you need to contact a really good CPA.

Speaker 1 And if you go to ramseysolutions.com/slash tax, we have a network of these pros that can help walk you through this. But you're going to need a pro.
This is not a DIY situation.

Speaker 2 I knew that from, yeah, I mean,

Speaker 2 that's where I, but I don't, I was, I'm like at the point where I was like, do I need to get a tax attorney? I mean, not just the CPA. I don't know what to do.

Speaker 1 Well, they'll be able to direct you and say, hey, this is attorney level.

Speaker 3 It may not be. I don't know yet.
I think you'll end up there unless you can come up with a big chunk of money, but that's a problem for future you.

Speaker 3 Let's just do the next right thing right in front of us, right?

Speaker 1 And the goal is you want to be proactive, calling the IRS, explaining the situation. That can actually reduce your penalties.
And likely what they're going to say is, well, how much can you pay now?

Speaker 1 Because that's going to help you reduce reduce penalties in the future. And then what does this payment plan look like? Yeah.

Speaker 1 And so you're going to have to pay the piper here, but the goal is to now minimize

Speaker 1 more damage being created. And so that's where being really proactive, explaining the whole situation, getting with a good CPA, and then figuring out a game plan.

Speaker 1 And the next few years of your life are going to look drastically different. You're going to have to learn to live on 30, 40% of your income because the rest of it is going to pay for the past.
Right.

Speaker 1 I mean, that's the hardest part is the sacrifice your lifestyle is about to take.

Speaker 3 But it's not as hard as going to jail for tax evasion. Exactly.
Well, no.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's that's

Speaker 3 those are your options.

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 I literally, I've literally thought about every scenario you could ever think of, and that's that's where I'm at.

Speaker 3 How old are your kids, brother?

Speaker 2 My daughter's a she's out of high school now, so I don't it's not a young family, but it's still my wife. You know, she's she's wanting to start a business, and it's just like,

Speaker 2 we need to get everything done 100% right now.

Speaker 3 Can I tell you what's going to free you?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 It's going to sound nuts. After you call this,

Speaker 3 once you get online and like George said, and get with a Ramsey Tax Pro, I don't want you to sit down and say, I've made a huge mess. I don't know where to start.
I need some help.

Speaker 3 And they will give you a step-by-step guide. Okay.

Speaker 3 That's number one.

Speaker 3 There's a chance that with your business not being so great most of the time and and your expenses and buying tools and wood and whatever else you're doing, it may not be as bad as us just sitting here thinking it is, right?

Speaker 3 Right, yeah. But there's an existential part of this, and I want you to sit down with your wife and your daughter at your kitchen table,

Speaker 3 and I want you to look them both in the eye and say, I messed up.

Speaker 3 And I think.

Speaker 2 My wife's aware.

Speaker 3 I know, but

Speaker 3 I want your daughter to participate and see what it looks like when a man tells the truth. Right.
And when a man says the words, their dad says the words, I'm sorry, and here's what I'm doing now.

Speaker 3 Because your daughter's going to be a part, your wife's going to be a part of the sacrifice moving forward, like George said, right? You're going to have way less disposable income.

Speaker 3 Daughter may not have the car that she was hoping to get. She may not be able to go to the college she was hoping to go to, right?

Speaker 3 Maybe. Yeah, that's where.

Speaker 3 You're going to be free because you're going to have put everything out on the table for her. And she needs to know dad has a plan.
Dad's calling a professional. Dad called a couple of knuckleheads

Speaker 3 on a YouTube show, on a podcast. And so that was huge.

Speaker 3 But dad's got a plan and we're moving forward. And in this house, from this day forward, we're people of integrity.
We do things the right way. Right.
I really,

Speaker 2 yeah, I really appreciate that.

Speaker 3 You got it.

Speaker 3 It will free you if you do that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, a lot of this is the emotional just buildup of seven years of burying this and burying this. And now we got to do some excavating.
That's right.

Speaker 3 It's 2025. Listen, conflict deferred is conflict amplified.
Whatever hard conversations or tough decisions you need to make right now will be worse the longer you wait.

Speaker 3 Make 2025 the year you just head straight into these things and get them over with.

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All right, let's go to Brandon in Gulfport, Mississippi up next. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 2 Hi, thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 Sure. What's going on?

Speaker 2 Well, Doors, Dr. John, very good to talk to y'all.
And Dr. John, about halfway through your new book.

Speaker 3 And so far, so good.

Speaker 2 i appreciate that brother thank you good good feedback yeah hey uh just a little back story um we've been at uh the baby steps since about 2010 so we became everyday millionaires almost textbook around within 10 years you know we became millionaires and paid off our household nine yards started amazing and of course with notes and and so forth but recently

Speaker 2 I'd say within the last two or three years,

Speaker 2 we've started noticing old relationships kind of fizzling and building new ones have not been so great as a family. And it's sort of an unintended consequence of, I think, how we live our lives.

Speaker 2 Even though we don't brag about it, I mean, certain things have come up over the years like, you know, paying for our kids, fully funding their college through 529s, paying for cars with cash, you know, paying off our house and renovating our houses.

Speaker 2 with cash. You know, in certain circles, that information has spread like wildfire, but in a negative way.

Speaker 2 And like I said, we're not going out of the way to brag about these things, but we start to see a trend of folks kind of backing out of our lives.

Speaker 2 And, you know, we get the comments like, oh, y'all are hanging around rich folks now, or we're in different circles and so forth.

Speaker 2 And, you know, we're just trying to figure out how do we deal with that. You know, I know it's not a terribly bad problem to have, but still, we're just focusing the change.

Speaker 3 Yeah, it can be a devastating problem to have. The two words coming to my mind are the title of Mel Robbins' new book.
And my thought is, let them.

Speaker 3 Just let them.

Speaker 3 If people don't want to be your friend anymore because

Speaker 3 you're successful,

Speaker 3 then I would suggest they may not have been your friend in the first place.

Speaker 3 The depth of the relationship that you assumed was there or that you had invested on your side was not there to begin with.

Speaker 3 Because over the last few years, obviously working for Dave, he takes care of us really well.

Speaker 3 My life's changed. And for my deepest, closest relationships that I've had for years, it's just made them deeper.
They make fun of me more and they

Speaker 3 make jokes and they always laugh when the tab comes and they're like, I'm not paying that. You're paying that.

Speaker 3 But it's all in support and care and love. And

Speaker 3 how old are you guys?

Speaker 2 41.

Speaker 3 41. How old are your kids?

Speaker 2 They're still in elementary school.

Speaker 3 Okay. So

Speaker 3 this is, I'm wondering if two things are happening and you're looking at one side of the equation. The other side of the equation is it's very, very normal.
You guys are like me and my wife.

Speaker 3 Y'all are late parents with, y'all are older parents with young kids.

Speaker 3 And you find yourself at elementary school functions with a bunch of 20-year-old parents, maybe 30-year-old parents, and y'all are just in different life stages.

Speaker 3 And those same friends, you realize, oh, you're one of those weird Little League parents or you're like a Cub Scout dad and you might be like, we go fishing debt, right?

Speaker 3 There's a natural separation that happens when your kids are this age.

Speaker 3 And that happens whether you have money or not. It's just normal.
It just happens.

Speaker 3 And so I think the bigger challenge for you guys is to not dump this all on the fact that y'all pay for stuff with cash and more recognize it as just a life stage, just a developmental transitional stage.

Speaker 3 And kind of like when my grandparents on both sides, they were told, like, hey, smoking's like a good way to help you relieve stress. And then they were like, oh, yeah, and it kills you.

Speaker 3 They all had to quit smoking. I think similarly, you guys have to decide we have to do something different to stay healthy.

Speaker 3 And that means we have to be obnoxiously intentional about having friends, making new friends, and going from there.

Speaker 3 I mean, I don't know another objective way around this problem because you can't be lonely because I just know this, the data on loneliness is it's just a decision to die early and miserably, right?

Speaker 2 That's all great advice. And like you had said,

Speaker 2 we have heard that quite a bit. Like, hey, we're not catching this bill.
We know you guys have money, so we're just going to let you take a bill.

Speaker 2 And, you know, that's funny at first, but when it's three, four, five times in a row, it gets a little old.

Speaker 3 Oh, it gets, hey, let me qualify what I said. I remember the first time that happened.
The second time I went out with some friends, they've been my friends for 30 years.

Speaker 3 And I picked up the tab, and one of my friends turned and looked at me and said, you will never do that again. I'm your friend before this and I'll be your friend after this.

Speaker 3 And he's somebody who speaks wisdom in a mile. He's a goofball, but he's awesome.
But that was a good, like, hey, we don't love you for this, right?

Speaker 3 And so, yeah, if your friends, if they're not your friends, then, right? They're, you're their coupon book.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 here's the two things I found. Go first and be weird.
And what I mean by that is don't wait for somebody to invite y'all because it's not going to happen. Y'all do the inviting.

Speaker 3 Have somebody over to your house and be weird, meaning just go ask them. Hey, I'm going for a run.
You want to come with me? I'm going to work out. You want to come with me?

Speaker 3 I got to build something in my backyard. You want to help me build it? And you're going to get no, no, no, no.
Sure, I'll come. And then there you go.
But I don't know another way around it.

Speaker 3 George, how do you make friends?

Speaker 1 You're asking the wrong guy, John.

Speaker 3 I'm asking the wrong guy.

Speaker 1 John won't even be friends with me.

Speaker 3 George has an app for that, I guess, somewhere.

Speaker 1 No, but I've been thinking about this, Brandon, because I'm in a similar phase. I'm just very gun-ho on the baby steps, have been for a long time.

Speaker 1 And what I found is over time, there's a natural shedding of old relationships that just don't serve you. And it's not a selfish thing if they've got to add value to my life.

Speaker 1 You just find that I communicate with them less. They talk to me less, and I'm learning to have new relationships.

Speaker 1 And so part of what you're experiencing is this idea that your friends have poisoned the well by choosing to believe that the way you live your life is a judgment against them.

Speaker 1 It's a personal attack that you say for your kids' college while they can't or won't. And that's the part you need to drop and go, all right, that's not on me.

Speaker 1 You sound like a real nice guy, not a braggadocious type. So I don't know.
Maybe I'm wrong. But that's the hard part is for you to just swallow that pill and go, no, that's on them.

Speaker 1 That's the poison they're choosing to drink, and I want no part in it.

Speaker 2 George, I think you hit the nail on the head there. And that's some of the comments that we've heard, kind of nonchalant, off-the-plus comments, you know, at social events.
And

Speaker 2 it's like that, you know, it's like what what we're doing is strange and

Speaker 2 out of character for them. But we've been living this way for 15 plus years.

Speaker 3 And here's the deal.

Speaker 2 It's not like we became this way overnight.

Speaker 3 Yeah, but here's the thing. It is strange, and it is weird.
It's insane that I just said that, that it is strange and weird to live.

Speaker 1 You've lived intentionally for a long time.

Speaker 3 That's rare. But here's the thing.
Your friend should love you

Speaker 3 in spite of and because of your weird and strange things. That's what makes y'all y'all, right?

Speaker 3 None of my friend, I can't think of any of my older friends that live the Ramsey principles. They, like, I get in open, like they mock me, we'll laugh at each other, we'll poke and prod.

Speaker 3 I got one guy that has never owed anybody money ever, and he's like, yeah, I didn't need a program to tell me, like, like, right? So that's my friendships, but they love me in spite of it.

Speaker 3 Same with my weird music choices. Same the fact that I like to sneak away and go to punk rock shows at 10 o'clock at night.
Like, They love me in spite of and because of my idiosyncrasies.

Speaker 3 And so this is deeper than the baby steps. This is, like George said, people who are choosing to see the way you guys live your life as some sort of indictment on the way they're doing it.

Speaker 3 And that just is them, unfortunately, opting out of relationship with you. And that's a bum deal, man.

Speaker 3 But by the way, this would be happening if you did or did not do too much travel sports or if you did or did not do too much cub scouting. Like, this is just that season for y'all.

Speaker 1 The comparison game is real and adults.

Speaker 3 It just is.

Speaker 1 So I love John's idea of who are, who do you admire? When you guys go home and you're talking to your wife? Who are the people like, man? They seem really we should invite them all together.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And then be weird and send the text, make the phone call, and then you're going to develop new relationships over time. And it's still going to be weird and awkward.

Speaker 3 It's always going to be weird. And go anyway.

Speaker 1 Thanks so much for the call. Great conversation, Brandon.
More of your calls coming up. 888-825-5225.
This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr.
John Deloney. Open phones at 888-825-5225.
Jennifer's up next in Boston, Massachusetts. What's going on, Jennifer?

Speaker 2 Hi,

Speaker 2 I'm calling because the question is mostly related to my house, as I look like I'm going to need to be selling it because I got myself into a bit of a jam.

Speaker 2 For context, I got divorced this year after last year. I discovered my husband was

Speaker 2 engaging with women online for most of our 15-year marriage and spending thousands and thousands every month and had later gotten into like

Speaker 2 game stop kind of things like with the stock market and gambling and it was a huge shock to everyone especially me

Speaker 2 so we did end up getting divorced in October and over the past year

Speaker 2 I'm disabled anyways. I was on disability SSUI for a long time.

Speaker 2 I started working during COVID and was able to get back to a really good job that I loved, but over the past year, I've had to exhaust my leave time and ended up leaving completely because I had gotten sick so frequently.

Speaker 2 So, right now, I'm without a job and have three little kids, and I do have this house, which I got in the divorce.

Speaker 2 But I'm kind of looking for next steps and what I should do because I didn't accumulate a lot because of my situation. and it's just, yeah, a

Speaker 3 tricky spot to be in. Yeah, it's heartbreaking.
What a mess.

Speaker 3 What's the nature of your disability?

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 2 shortly after I got married, I got a really bad virus and I never really recovered from it. So I didn't walk for a couple years.

Speaker 2 Kind of slowly went back. It's energy limiting.
So it was kind of like long COVID before long COVID, M-E-C-F-S.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 3 Do you

Speaker 3 was the stress of finding all of this stuff out and realizing that the man you'd been married to for 15 years wasn't who he said he was?

Speaker 3 Like, I mean, that's just so disorienting, but almost more disorienting than finding out somebody's not who they said they were is you lose trust in yourself. You lose trust in yourself, right?

Speaker 2 Oh, absolutely.

Speaker 3 It was like a complete betrayal.

Speaker 2 I'm like, how could I not know?

Speaker 3 How did I not? That's right, right. So it makes you, not only do you have this person that he didn't stab you in the back, he stabbed you in the face, right?

Speaker 3 He stabbed you in the front, but then also, it's hard to even look at yourself in the mirror. Did that exacerbate your

Speaker 3 what would ultimately be some sort of chronic fatigue? I mean, that makes it worse over the past year.

Speaker 2 Oh, absolutely. I got not only did it exacerbate my chronic conditions, but I got shingles, I got COVID twice, I got mood, food poisoning multiple times, like eating.

Speaker 2 Like, I just, my immune system is just beat up.

Speaker 3 So, here's why I asked that:

Speaker 3 because

Speaker 3 there's not an easy path forward.

Speaker 3 But my hope would be that when the acuteness of the stress,

Speaker 3 when the pain from this burn that you feel is lessened, will your body go back to a place where you can work and what you said was a really great job that provided for you guys.

Speaker 3 Because here's the thing.

Speaker 3 It doesn't sound like anybody's coming to rescue you.

Speaker 2 No. and my doctor, you know, it was hard because even when I was working from home, every week was a win.

Speaker 3 And he knew that.

Speaker 2 I think he took advantage of that because every week was a win. Like, I did it.
I wanted to have that self-identity because I felt like my career was stolen. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So I worked really hard every week just to survive and at the expense of honestly spending time with my kids and living more of a life because I wanted that career. Sure.

Speaker 3 Well, now

Speaker 3 like now you have to have it.

Speaker 3 And that's just a different hard thing because my doctor kind of disagrees.

Speaker 2 He's like, you know, you need to take care of you.

Speaker 3 You do, but y'all need groceries.

Speaker 3 Are you getting alimony?

Speaker 2 So, no alimony, but child support. And then he did owe me a promissory note from what he had spent.
He had agreed to sign for that sum of what he had spent.

Speaker 2 But I haven't really seen consistent payment on that, and I don't know if I will.

Speaker 3 You won't. You know that you won't.
Have you filed for SSI yet?

Speaker 2 So because I had gotten that before, I'd been on the phone, but actually this week I was on the phone with security for like three hours on hold. So in that process.

Speaker 3 Okay. And you may need to bite the bullet and get an SSI attorney that will walk that with you.
They can be worth their weight in gold. They can help you navigate that process.

Speaker 3 And there may be some local resources. Do you have any family help with mom, dad, sister, brother, cousins?

Speaker 2 Yeah. So so

Speaker 2 my parents, because there was also construction happening, we had a flood in the house and had to leave. So there was construction happening at the house, and that went over budget.
And,

Speaker 2 you know, my arts was supposed to pay half of that, but he didn't. So my parents had to loan me money for that.

Speaker 2 So I really do need to sell so I can pay them back because they're older, and I don't want to have to have that burden on me as well.

Speaker 3 Well, there is that, but I'm talking more term. Because if you sell your house just to pay off a debt, that's fine.
But where are you and your, with three or four kids? Where are y'all going to live?

Speaker 2 I'm hoping in a house where I don't have a mortgage.

Speaker 3 Yeah, there's no such thing as that.

Speaker 1 What's your mortgage right now?

Speaker 2 It's $2,200.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 3 And you've got zero money coming in?

Speaker 2 Right now, other than child support, correct?

Speaker 1 How much is child support? Yeah.

Speaker 2 I get like $5.85 a week.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 1 That's barely enough to cover the mortgage.

Speaker 3 Much less food, clothes, everything.

Speaker 3 Is there a possibility that you sit down with your parents and say, we need to sell the house and I need to move in with you guys?

Speaker 3 Here's the thing.

Speaker 3 You don't have any options, son.

Speaker 3 I know, but you don't have, or they sell the condo and move in with you?

Speaker 3 You have to get drastic because I don't feel like you're grasping the gravity of the situation. You got four kids and you don't have enough kids.

Speaker 3 Three kids.

Speaker 2 I do

Speaker 2 grasping the gravity.

Speaker 2 That's why I'm calling you people.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Well, it's going to be getting radical.
I mean, it's going to be doing things that are uncomfortable.

Speaker 3 You're picking from a series of uncomfortable choices.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So selling the house might be the move.

Speaker 1 I want it to be a last-ditch effort when you've exhausted all other options because I assume to rent in your area to get a house that'll fit your kids is going to be more than $2,200. Absolutely.

Speaker 1 I I don't know what part of Boston you're in, but that's where I'm from, and it ain't cheap.

Speaker 3 Or do we have to move? Do we have to move to Kansas where it's cheaper to live?

Speaker 3 And I can work remote there.

Speaker 3 I think your doctor's right. I mean, I would agree with him 100%.
You got to take care of you.

Speaker 3 But that works in a context when you have somebody that can help with the bills and with food and with the light bill. You don't have that right now.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And so it's a matter of calling a sister and saying, hey, would you move in with us for a year? Or I need to sell this house because we're broke.

Speaker 3 Could I move my three kids in there? And I know it's awful and awkward and whatever. I'm going to get back on my feet.

Speaker 3 Or mom and dad, I know this wasn't in your retirement plan, but y'all, would you be interested in moving in with us? And we'll put one of the kids in a room.

Speaker 3 I'll give you all the master and I'll move into one of the other bedrooms, but we're going to figure something out. I think you're at that level of I've got to solve these problems here.

Speaker 3 And I hate, hate, hate, hate, hate that you're in this situation.

Speaker 2 Thank you. Yeah, it's very stressful.
And I know it's like a vicious cycle there. So I'm just

Speaker 2 not a lot of options. There's not a lot of options.

Speaker 3 But here's the other thing.

Speaker 3 If you don't remember anything else from this phone call, remember that George and I believe in you.

Speaker 3 Thank you. Because we've taken call after call from people who are like, all right, we got to figure this out.
And then somehow, some way, they do. They do.
They scratch and they claw and they do.

Speaker 3 And I think you've got strength and power inside of you that has been squashed and stomped on. And again, you don't know this, but we do from the outside.

Speaker 3 You've lived with somebody for 15 years that has been a liar. It's been dishonest.

Speaker 3 And there's an electricity that's been in your home of deception and dishonesty and a lack of integrity for a decade and a half.

Speaker 3 And I know this sounds bonkers, but my guess is you're going to, even though you have this loss and you have this heartbreak, you're going to have peace in your home that you haven't had in ages.

Speaker 3 And I think your body's going to respond to that. That's my hope.
But yeah, keep us into your doctor and take some next right steps, but it sounds like you're at a place you got to get radical.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and we're going to hook you up with Financial Peace University and Every Dollar Jennifer.

Speaker 1 That's going to give you the information you need, the motivation, the budgeting tool, so that this week you can look at what are my bills, what is the income, and can I get through this without going into debt?

Speaker 1 This is survival mode, and we hope that one day soon you'll be thriving. Thanks for the call.
This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr.
John Deloney. You know, every day we take calls on the Ramsey Show, but we don't always know what happens after we hang up.

Speaker 1 Did they take our advice? I know a lot of you are wondering, and so we wanted to stop you from wondering. So we have a new show called 90-Day Money Makeover that lets us find out what happens next.

Speaker 1 And the good news is the first episode is now available on YouTube. And in episode one, we follow single mom, Heather, who's drowning in debt and stress following her divorce.

Speaker 1 Not only that, but she's trying to keep up with the family farm, including horses, chickens, and more. And it consumes almost all of her time and money.

Speaker 1 So the question is, is she willing to sell 30 chickens, a calf, maybe even the horse.

Speaker 3 Hey, dude, this lady is

Speaker 3 incredible. It's incredible.
I got you.

Speaker 3 It's so, it's amazing.

Speaker 1 It's amazing. You've got to check this out.
So Heather's, you know, she's got to consider major lifestyle changes.

Speaker 1 Jade's out there walking alongside her through these decisions and sacrifices that she never imagined making.

Speaker 1 So if you want to see just how far she's willing to go to change her life and her finances for good, go check out 90 Day Money Makeover.

Speaker 1 It's now available on YouTube, on our YouTube channel, or click the link in the show notes. It'll take you right there.
Very exciting. It's an awesome concept.

Speaker 1 We never get to interface with

Speaker 3 what I think it is. I think it's cool to

Speaker 3 the people who wonder, is this for real? Like, it's cool to give somebody seven minutes of whatever, of our opinion on something.

Speaker 3 And it's cool that we're always up here saying you should use every dollar and you should go through financial peace. But if you're

Speaker 3 a critically thinking person, you have to ask, is this for real? It can't possibly be this easy.

Speaker 1 Are they really going to do all this?

Speaker 3 Is it going to change their life? It's going to actually work. And so it's kind of like a bluff call, right? Like money where your mouth is.

Speaker 3 We're going to follow this person for 90 days and see what happens. But they got to do it every day.
And they do journal, like video journals and they walk through the situation. It's amazing.

Speaker 3 It's amazing.

Speaker 1 And the production quality, our team did this all in-house, and it is next level. So go check it out.
90-day money makeover. All right, Phoebe's up next in San Diego.
How can we help, Phoebe?

Speaker 1 Hi.

Speaker 1 Great to talk to you guys. You as well.

Speaker 2 I have a question about, I just got engaged.

Speaker 3 Woo!

Speaker 3 Is the person good?

Speaker 2 He's amazing.

Speaker 3 Okay, good. I take that.

Speaker 3 Well done.

Speaker 2 So I own a business. I've been open for two and a half years.
It's a little facial spa.

Speaker 2 And he is a musician, so he's self-employed as well.

Speaker 2 And I'm wondering, because my business is basically me, I don't have any income that goes into my personal account apart from my rent being withdrew.

Speaker 2 So I'm wondering, how should we combine our finances? How much should I pay myself for when we have a joint account? And then, also,

Speaker 2 he, this is kind of like a two-part question. He's in debt 25,000 student loans, and he doesn't really think it's important to pay those

Speaker 3 like all at once.

Speaker 3 You should

Speaker 3 marry him

Speaker 2 and then pay them off.

Speaker 3 No, I'm just playing. No, I mean, you should still marry him, but I was just being a smart aleck.

Speaker 2 So, he is kind of on that like pay them slowly, auto pay kind of

Speaker 2 thing,

Speaker 2 whereas I think, you know, being, I'm not in any debt and I love not being in debt.

Speaker 2 So I kind of want to get on the same page with that and I don't really know how. And then one more question.
We don't live together yet and when we get married and do,

Speaker 2 we

Speaker 2 basically, I'm just wondering,

Speaker 2 San Diego is very expensive and we want to buy one day and we were thinking of looking out of state to buy something that would be cheaper as an investment property and what your thoughts are on that.

Speaker 2 And then if renting is like wasting money in the first few, I guess, years of our marriage.

Speaker 3 Are you new to our gang, Phoebe?

Speaker 2 Fairly. I know that you say no about buying out of state, but

Speaker 2 maybe there's an exception because San Diego is so, so expensive.

Speaker 1 There's the Phoebe rule.

Speaker 3 The Phoebe rule. Statute 54.
No. Correct.
Well, hey, welcome to our gang, and we will ship you an honorary gallon of the Ramsey Kool-Aid. We won't, but that would be cool if we did that.

Speaker 3 Let's try to get a lot of people. Welcome to our club.

Speaker 1 Yeah, let's walk through. A lot going on here.
So combining income, it doesn't sound like you're paying yourself a salary right now. Like, how are you eating?

Speaker 1 How are you paying for other bills outside of rent?

Speaker 2 I don't have that many bills.

Speaker 2 Right now, my lifestyle is quite low because my rent is very cheap.

Speaker 3 hey hold on you're you're doing something that I think is dangerous do you have a separate business account that all of your business money goes into

Speaker 3 yes okay and so that money just stays in there and that's what you buy facial stuff

Speaker 2 tools yeah everything from my business I buy that and then I have money in a different Wells Fargo account that I buy like my own lifestyle.

Speaker 3 How does money get from one to another? Do you just go to the business account whenever you need to get some groceries or something?

Speaker 2 I have about $10,000 in my Wilsfargo that I've just been using.

Speaker 2 I've just been using that money for personal, but it's because

Speaker 2 I sold some things, so I have that money.

Speaker 1 What would be a reasonable salary to pay yourself out of this business? Every month, let's say, you know, here's your take-home pay for the month.

Speaker 1 What would you transfer over to your personal checking?

Speaker 2 Maybe Maybe like half of what I make.

Speaker 3 No, give me a number.

Speaker 1 Is it $5,000 a month?

Speaker 3 Yeah, that sounds good. So that would mean you're making $60,000 a year.

Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

Speaker 3 And then California is taking 90% of that. I'm just kidding, but they're taking a big chunk of it.

Speaker 3 And then Washington takes a chunk of it. Right.
So if you don't know what you're actually making

Speaker 3 and you either A, live out of this account, which a lot of small businesses do, and it's dangerous. If you don't know what you're making,

Speaker 3 then you don't know if you're running a hobby or an actual successful business.

Speaker 3 And so, coming up with some number, some kind of draw that you're going to pay yourself, and then, as George is going to walk you through it, like then it sets the stage for, can I afford this car?

Speaker 3 Can I afford this apartment or this house? Because you know how much money your business is making, and then you know how much money your business is paying you.

Speaker 1 And then we can make a plan to get out of debt, get an emergency fund, save for a down payment.

Speaker 1 Otherwise, it's just, i don't know let's see how much we can pull out of the business this month so we need to have something a little more stable and then as you actually get married and combine finances now becomes okay what is his stable income what's his irregular income what can we plan on and then where is that money going to go and that's where the baby steps come in so your next question was how do we get on the same page because he's clearly in a different world right now when it comes to finances and that's where a financial piece university is one of the best tools and i will gift it to you guys as premarital counseling if you think he'll go through it with you

Speaker 2 oh yeah that's something that I've been wanting to do, and he said that he would.

Speaker 1 So that'll be amazing because I think he's a great guy. I think he just

Speaker 1 didn't have financial literacy. Yeah, what does he play, by the way? I think that's important.

Speaker 2 He's a multi-instrumentalist.

Speaker 1 So he's not great at anything. That's what I heard.

Speaker 3 No, I'm just kidding.

Speaker 2 No, he's actually very great at all of them.

Speaker 3 He sounds like a savant.

Speaker 3 Does he know how much money does he make a year?

Speaker 2 Probably about 40.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 George is right, watching those things, those videos together. And I think not talking about, hey, it's a really big deal.
I get out of debt.

Speaker 3 I think the conversation for him is, hey, as we build our marriage, I want us to be free.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And I want our new marriage to have peace. And I want you to be able to do your art.
And I want me to be able to take care of my people.

Speaker 3 And if artists, and artisans owe money, they can never fully go to the full ends of the expression of their art because they always have to pay somebody.

Speaker 3 Right? And so it's really talking to a musician about freedom.

Speaker 1 And we need to figure out if this is a hobby because 40 grand in San Diego, we're not talking in real estate mogul buying investment property. We're talking like, maybe I get to eat this week.

Speaker 1 And so we need to look at what does a career look like.

Speaker 2 And we both have savings, like a good amount of savings.

Speaker 3 Yeah, but those go away so fast.

Speaker 3 They go away so fast when you're newlyweds. Just trust two people who have been married.
They go away so fast.

Speaker 1 So your last question, is it a waste of money to rent? No. Renting is buying patience.
It shows wisdom and maturity.

Speaker 1 And until you guys are out of debt with a fully funded emergency fund and then a down payment where you can actually afford the mortgage, we're talking of take-home pay.

Speaker 1 I would not buy property locally and I definitely would not buy it outside of the state.

Speaker 1 If you guys want to move outside of San Diego and you start a facial business out there for lower cost of living, go for it.

Speaker 3 But the cost, the high cost of living in San Diego doesn't give you a pass on the rules of math. Math doesn't care how you feel.
Math just is.

Speaker 1 So thanks for the call, Phoebe. We appreciate it.
Hang on the line. Kelly's going to pick up.
We'll get you Financial Peace University. Wishing you guys the best.

Speaker 1 That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.

Speaker 1 Live from the Ramsey Network, this is the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Camill, joined by the host of the Dr.

Speaker 1 John Deloney Show, Dr. John Deloney.
We're here to help taking your calls at 888-825-5225. If you want to talk life, money, mental health, relationships, you name it, we are here for you.

Speaker 1 Ted is going to kick us off in San Francisco. What's going on, Ted?

Speaker 2 Hey, guys. Happy New Year.

Speaker 3 What up? Happy New Year, ma'am. What's going on?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I have three financial advice questions I need from you guys. So let me give you the background about my history, where I'm at.

Speaker 2 Right Right now, my wife and I, we make pretty good money in San Francisco. Our combined income is $450,000.

Speaker 3 Awesome.

Speaker 3 That's basic minimum wage in San Francisco, right?

Speaker 2 Yeah, pretty much.

Speaker 3 Pretty much.

Speaker 2 We have a two-year-old, and we have another one coming in May this year.

Speaker 2 And we have zero debt, zero car payments. We locked in 2.5 interest at a condo about four years ago.
So we're saving a lot. We're maxing our 401k.
We have an emergency fund.

Speaker 2 We're putting money into education funds. And we finally have enough money saved up to buy a home.
And we want to move to Southern California just because we have family, friends there.

Speaker 2 We don't have anyone here. So we want to be close to family, get some help.

Speaker 2 But with the current, my first question, with the current interest mortgage rate and how expensive houses are, what's your advice or like your thoughts on reducing our savings a little bit, like our 401k,

Speaker 2 our

Speaker 2 normal savings, and paying an expensive 8 to 9,000 mortgage which basically goes from 20% of our income to 50% of our income

Speaker 1 that's a lot of your income going toward a mortgage I would never do that it is yeah so what does it take to get to that you know 25% parameter with the mortgage would that mean pausing investing and waiting two years and stacking up cash

Speaker 2 well um I mean we could go for a smaller home but with the two kids of like one coming one kid now and one coming, we were wanting like a four-bedroom place, at least for like the best in our future.

Speaker 2 So everything in Southern California is really expensive. I mean, we could maybe

Speaker 2 go cheaper and then renovate down the line.

Speaker 2 But yeah, we were just kind of looking for something that's moving ready because with the kid, we didn't want to renovate and we didn't want to do anything in terms of building our home.

Speaker 1 And you're in a condo now with how many bedrooms?

Speaker 2 It's a small two-bedroom condo.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 1 Well, for the first six months, the baby's going to be in your room, probably, right?

Speaker 2 Yeah, so we're probably going to

Speaker 2 be able to a year.

Speaker 2 Oh, sorry. What was that?

Speaker 1 We're talking like 2026 for a home purchase would be ideal?

Speaker 2 I think so. Either end of this year or sometime in early 2026.

Speaker 1 Okay. So if you paused investing, how much extra money could you stack up? If you guys just got real focused on a budget, cut the lifestyle down, how much could you save that 450 take home?

Speaker 2 So right now, our all-in expenses is we need about $7,000 a month to survive. And so we're taking home roughly about $22,000.
That's after putting 401k.

Speaker 3 Awesome.

Speaker 1 So you have 15 to play with if you didn't pause investing.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, exactly. And how much do you have saved currently for the house?

Speaker 2 $400,000.

Speaker 1 Awesome. So you would add another $180K over the next year if you didn't make any changes.

Speaker 3 Correct. And you sell your condo? How much do you get for your condo?

Speaker 2 $750,000.

Speaker 1 Okay. And what do you owe?

Speaker 2 Roughly about $520,000.

Speaker 1 You got about $200,000 equity?

Speaker 2 Yeah, about like $200,000, almost $250,000 in equity.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 1 So let's call it $200,000 plus your $400,000 saved. That's $600,000.
Let's say you save up another $200,000 over the next year. Now we're talking $800,000 as a down payment for the next house.

Speaker 1 Would that get you closer to that 25%, Mark?

Speaker 2 Oh, I see. Well, the thing is, is I mean, okay, so I guess here's another question.
Since we locked in such a good rate, we were just going to go to the next one.

Speaker 3 No, Ted. Nope, don't be that guy.

Speaker 1 Don't get greedy on us, Ted. So now you want to hang on to the condo, use it as a rental while adding stress to your life as a long-distance landlord.

Speaker 3 While also taking out a mortgage with two young kids that is 50%

Speaker 3 right when Sam Altman keeps tweeting out that he's changing everything in Silicon Valley by the minute.

Speaker 3 Why would you do that to your site?

Speaker 3 Here's what I want you guys to consider. Probably something most families in America have never considered.
I want you and your wife to imagine over the dinner table, what if we solved for peace?

Speaker 3 Not for maximum comfort, not for best ROI, and not for we got a good,

Speaker 3 a good interest rate so we can keep

Speaker 3 What would peace look like in our house for the next five years while we have two toddlers, two kids under two? what would our life look like if we solved for a peace?

Speaker 3 And by the way, that would mean you guys buying a $2 million house. Whah, wah, right? Like, it's not like, oh, man.

Speaker 3 You get what I'm saying? Like, if y'all solve for a peace, that way, if she says after kid one, I don't want to go back to work,

Speaker 3 or you have this oh, conscious awakening, you're like, I want to be a stay-at-home dad, right? Whatever, y'all can. You can do whatever you want.

Speaker 3 If you owe 50% of your money, I promise you, you will regret that decision. I promise you.
I promise you. I promise you.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Okay.
Thanks. And that's where our hesitation was coming from.
We just wanted to see if that was even a possibility because we are getting kind of cramped in here.

Speaker 2 Okay, thanks. That's good advice.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean, how does that sound? Is that deflating? Is that like a, do we just bum you up?

Speaker 1 It's controversial in the financial world, especially Silicon Valley.

Speaker 3 Like, bro, that would be a great investment property.

Speaker 1 It's 2.5%. You're basically robbing the bank here.
Like, why would you? And we're going, your life is more than just a set of numbers.

Speaker 1 You got a family you're trying to take care of. You got a life to live.
And I don't want you spending it worrying about a property that's hundreds of miles away.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 3 And all we're telling you is what we would do in our own house.

Speaker 1 And it's what I have done. We sold our house.
We didn't hang on to it. We could have.
We said, we're going to sell it because we want peace. We want to get to total debt freedom faster.

Speaker 1 And now we don't have a payment in the world. And so when my wife wanted to stay at home with our baby, it wasn't even a financial conversation.
It was just an emotional one.

Speaker 1 You're leaving your career. And so that's what I would love for you guys to have.

Speaker 3 Freedom, flexibility. Or suddenly podcasting ended tomorrow.
George and I, like, we, it wouldn't be destitution. It'd be like, oh, this sucks.
We got to figure out something else to do.

Speaker 3 George would start mowing lawns or something. He wouldn't.
He absolutely would not mow lawns. But

Speaker 3 you get what we're saying. I know it's, I know it's super controversial to solve for peace and to live on less than you make, but

Speaker 3 did you have another question? Yeah, what was the other question, bro?

Speaker 2 I did. Yeah.
So if we're currently that $400,000 is just sitting in high-yield savings, just looking for advice between leaving it in high-yield savings or investing in money market funds.

Speaker 1 I think high-yield savings would have equal, if not better, rates right now.

Speaker 1 So I don't think it's worth switching to the money market or even putting it in a CD because you're talking about a year timeline.

Speaker 1 That's just too short to be messing with things that lock up your money or invest your money. So a money market acts like a savings account.

Speaker 1 There's not many more benefits other than sometimes you get to write checks out of of it or you got a debit card attached to it. So I would just leave it with a high-yield savings account.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 3 Can I, can I, Ted, can I give you one more piece of advice? It's kind of, it's, it's dark-tinged advice. Is that okay?

Speaker 2 Yeah, please.

Speaker 3 I would not make any big major purchases, moves, job decisions, or anything until your second child is born and healthy, and y'all know the road ahead.

Speaker 3 Too many people that I've talked to over the years make major decisions when pregnant and life just happens, man. Pregnancies are tough.

Speaker 3 There's so much that can be different than we thought it was going to be. Let this thing play out.
Baby be born healthy.

Speaker 3 You and mom are rocking and rolling and then start making new decisions and let that cash just pile itself up. Thanks for the call, man.

Speaker 1 This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 For free tools and resources to help you reach your home goals, go to ramseysolutions.com slash real estate or click the link in the show notes.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr.
John Deloney. Hey, it's a new year.
If you're ready to get your finances in order once and for all in 2025, you've got to join us.

Speaker 1 January 23rd, we're doing a free live stream called Take Control of Your Money. It's hosted by Dave Ramsey and Jade Warshaw.

Speaker 1 You're going to learn how to stop living paycheck to paycheck, free up more breathing room with your finances so you can pay off debt fast, finally get ahead.

Speaker 1 Plus, Rachel Cruz and I will join at the tail end for a QA where you can ask your money questions live.

Speaker 1 And when you sign up for the the free live stream, you'll be entered to win our cash giveaway and five people will win $4,000 each.

Speaker 1 So sign up for the free live stream by going to ramseysolutions.com slash live stream or click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. Need I remind you, it is free.

Speaker 1 You've got nothing to lose. Ramseysolutions.com slash live stream.
Casey is in Green Bay up next. What's going on, Casey?

Speaker 2 Hi, how are you guys?

Speaker 3 Doing well.

Speaker 1 How can we help?

Speaker 2 We, my husband and I, are trying to contemplate of him taking a new job.

Speaker 2 However, it would be a very temporary pay cut, and then there would be some changes to my career as well.

Speaker 1 In a good way?

Speaker 2 I hope so. So, a little background.
My husband has been a firefighter paramedic at his current position for the last nine years,

Speaker 2 making anywhere between $81,000 and $86,000 a year. I myself am an ER nurse and make about the same.

Speaker 2 So the offer has come down the table for his dream job at a different department elsewhere in the state that's actually a little bit closer to our family.

Speaker 2 However, the training period is about five and a half months. So he would start out at around $62,000 for that five months.

Speaker 2 And we've contemplated myself staying home from work to take care of our two kids during that training period. So we just want to kind of see if our finances can handle it.

Speaker 3 When he gets out of training, what is this how we're going to go to?

Speaker 2 So it's a stepwise process. So after that initial training, it will bump up around $75,000.
And then after a total of 42 months, he'll be making $97,000 a year.

Speaker 2 So it would actually be more than what we're going to do.

Speaker 1 We're talking a few years down the line. Correct.
Okay. So in the grand scheme of life, let's call it a wash, but it's where you guys want to go.
You're closer to family.

Speaker 1 Is the cost of living the same?

Speaker 2 It's a little bit more expensive backed by our family however we're trying to purchase a family pro property through an informal probate so we have a property in mind that we're trying to would you guys immediately live on the property um

Speaker 2 there is structure on it yes um it does need some upgrading and things like that um the other caveat to that i guess is that we wouldn't move until after the training period just because um that's right

Speaker 3 on yeah child care and things like that so i'm gave me some pause.

Speaker 1 When you're saying we're going from making $160 to $60,000 and we want to buy property and renovate and,

Speaker 1 I'm like, now I can't breathe a little bit. So I think

Speaker 1 we can't have the cake and eat it too. So what can we do to take this job? I'm all for this.
It sounds like it's where he wants to be longer term. You're closer to family.

Speaker 1 Eventually, the pay will get up there. He sounds like he's a hard-working man.
He's willing to take on a side job if he needs to in the meantime on top of the training.

Speaker 1 The question is, can you financially stay home, get your income down to 60 grand and still make ends meet?

Speaker 3 I don't know. Correct.

Speaker 1 What is your monthly expenses?

Speaker 2 Our mortgage is $600 a month, and then we did go through a financial piece of university and the first few babysits. So all the debt that we have is just a house.

Speaker 1 Good. And you have a fully funded emergency fund?

Speaker 3 Yes. Wow.
How much is in there?

Speaker 2 We have about $55,000 in our savings.

Speaker 3 Awesome. Okay.

Speaker 1 The good news is you guys are in a great spot that this move won't be as stressful. I do like the idea of pausing to make the move until after training.
What does that mean for him traveling?

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 he would probably stay with his parents because the commute then would be much closer than it would be in our current home.

Speaker 2 So that's why we're contemplating me staying home with the two kids so he's not driving three hours one way every single day.

Speaker 1 But you wouldn't see him for six months or what?

Speaker 2 He would come home on weekends.

Speaker 3 Okay. I did that for six months,

Speaker 3 transitioning jobs.

Speaker 3 When my my wife stayed she was finishing up her research and so we've done that and now it's before face time yeah yeah we just had to drive and see each other so it wasn't great and but we made it made it work and so that's not i don't think that's super undoable if y'all plan it going in and y'all have some pretty intentional things about keeping your marriage squared up i think the george the the variable here to me sounds like

Speaker 3 i i would wait at least a year, probably two, maybe three, before I would quit my ER nurse job. Because it sounds like that's a significant chunk of your income.

Speaker 3 I would wait until the smoke cleared and that probably means you getting a job in this new town too.

Speaker 3 And I know that's not what you want to hear, but man, that's cutting $100,000 out of our annual budget to move to a more expensive place.

Speaker 2 My plan would be to

Speaker 2 I've been applying for some remote positions just for during this training period, but I would plan to go back to work after the training period.

Speaker 2 If we could get some help from our family and stuff like that, I would absolutely go back to work.

Speaker 3 our home. Oh, you're talking about just quitting your job for six months.

Speaker 1 Yes. Would it make sense then to just do child care for six months?

Speaker 2 Child care is quite expensive where we're at.

Speaker 3 Is it $100,000?

Speaker 3 No. You know what I mean? Like,

Speaker 1 if you're making $86,000, I doubt it's,

Speaker 1 I think your take-home pay is still going to be much higher than what your daycare would cost you.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 You know, if you're bringing home six grand a month and daycare costs three,

Speaker 1 you're still in the black here.

Speaker 1 So I would crunch those numbers. I'd sit down with your husband.
I would do a fake $3 budget and go, okay, here's what life looks like if we drop your income. Here's another budget.

Speaker 1 Here's what it looks like if we go down to just you in training. And then here's what our budget looks like later on.

Speaker 1 That'll give you some peace and facts instead of just here's how I'm feeling about it. That's what I would do if I was in your shoes with my, with my wife.

Speaker 3 And here's an important thing. When people are trying to make decisions like you are, you've got a bunch of, you've got a cool opportunity that George and I both agree, it's right on.

Speaker 3 You want to be by family,

Speaker 3 it's a temporary pay cut, but it's the job your husband really wants and the department he really, really wants. Like it's everything's good, right?

Speaker 3 But it's just going to be some steps to get there.

Speaker 3 I think where a lot of us get paralyzed is we don't want there to be any pain, any sort of hard decision, any sort of uncomfortable consequence as we make this transition.

Speaker 3 So if you just go in knowing that's impossible, there's going going to be one, two, or three things that we have to do for a season that we don't like.

Speaker 3 Then it's a matter of saying, okay, it's just choosing your heart. Which crummy thing do we want? Do we want to

Speaker 3 just put our kids in childcare or hire a nanny for

Speaker 3 six months? It's expensive. It's annoying, but it is going to be what it is to get us where we want to be five years from now or three years from now.

Speaker 3 Or do we want to,

Speaker 3 you get a remote, right? So it's just knowing up front, there's going to be some crumminess to this. You're going to have to move in with your mom.
Ha, ha, ha. And then we're going to go from there.

Speaker 3 And putting those things on the table, for some reason, makes them easier to stomach. It's when we're trying to

Speaker 3 do it all without being uncomfortable at all that we end up paralyzing ourselves. You get what I'm saying? Yes.

Speaker 1 And you guys would be selling your current home and buying a property over there? Or are you going to do the structure on the family property? Because what does this family property cost?

Speaker 2 We are still trying to work that out with my family beneficiaries.

Speaker 2 but

Speaker 3 that doesn't sound good.

Speaker 2 When it was last appraised, it was around $268,000.

Speaker 1 Okay, and what's your current house worth?

Speaker 2 Around $300,000.

Speaker 3 Okay, good.

Speaker 1 I'm trying to make sure your mortgage doesn't triple when you make this move and it's all of a sudden.

Speaker 1 The other piece of this to be thinking about is, do you guys need to rent while you renovate the structure?

Speaker 2 No, it's very livable. It's more so some cosmetic things and

Speaker 2 maybe adding on a garage.

Speaker 3 Excellent. That's stuff you can do down the road.
So very, very cool.

Speaker 1 Thanks for the call.

Speaker 3 It's an exciting life.

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 It's a lot of change at once. And John, there's so much more when you look at just, can we do this financially?

Speaker 1 There's so much more under the surface when you talk about family and relationships and career and moving to kids. It just sort of takes your breath away to think about a change that big.

Speaker 3 And there's two things that paralyze us. One is we don't want to have any discomfort.
If you just get that out of the way, there's going to be some stuff that we have to do that we don't like.

Speaker 3 The second big one is

Speaker 3 very few things other than having kids, or and I would suggest getting married, is that you can't undo. So if you move down there, this is a disaster.
It stinks. She's an ER nurse.

Speaker 3 She'll have a job tomorrow, right? Anywhere. He can go get another job as an EMT, right? So we're going to do the next right thing in front of us, not over-dramatize.

Speaker 3 What's going to happen in 10 years? Nobody knows. Nobody knows.
We're going to do the next right thing.

Speaker 1 Beautifully said. This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr.
John Deloney.

Speaker 1 We got to kick off the year with a little pep on our step. And to do that, we have a very special couple on the debt-free stage.
Steve and Katie are with us. How you guys doing?

Speaker 3 Great.

Speaker 1 Where are you guys from?

Speaker 3 Peoria, Illinois. Wonderful.

Speaker 1 And all the way here to do a debt-free screen. How much did you pay off?

Speaker 3 $214,000. Woo! How long did that take? Wow.
Eight months.

Speaker 1 Okay, there's a story here. What was your range of income during that time?

Speaker 3 We started at $331,000 and finished this year at $391,000. Woo!

Speaker 3 What do I do for a living? I'm in sales.

Speaker 4 And I stay at home with the kids.

Speaker 3 Excellent.

Speaker 1 That's beautiful. We love to see that.
You're clearly very good at sales. Okay.

Speaker 1 So let's talk about this. What type of debt was the 214?

Speaker 3 It was our home. Oh!

Speaker 1 We're looking at weird people, John. This is wild.

Speaker 3 You guys aren't old enough to have a paid-for home. Well, thank you.

Speaker 1 Oh, my goodness. Okay, so we got to go back

Speaker 1 a long eight months ago. You guys had this mortgage sitting around and you decided, let's knock this out.

Speaker 3 What happened?

Speaker 1 What got you on this journey?

Speaker 3 Well, it actually started for us 15 years ago. We were buried in debt.

Speaker 3 Had a good friend of mine who reached out to us and sent us a copy of the Total Money Makeover. Katie read it right away.
She became Davish. And I was so hopeless at the time.

Speaker 3 I put put the book in the closet, didn't touch it for two years.

Speaker 3 Two years later, I started to read the book, and it was the first time that I actually had hope that we could get out of debt and get on track. So we started budgeting

Speaker 3 and put a plan together, and thanks be to God, he is so generous and so faithful that as we started managing money the way that he wanted, it seemed like he just blessed us with more money to manage.

Speaker 3 So fast forward to last year,

Speaker 3 our oldest is 17, and we started talking about could we have the house paid off before she went off to college? And

Speaker 3 so we've just started talking about that.

Speaker 4 So for me,

Speaker 4 a little over a year ago, I had, through prayer and promptings from the Holy Spirit, started to feel like this mortgage is such a weight on our shoulders.

Speaker 4 Like, why are we not just getting rid of this?

Speaker 4 And there had been a couple opportunities for us to give, and I wanted to give more, and we just didn't have that ability.

Speaker 4 And I had this whisper in my heart from God just saying, you know, if you didn't have that mortgage, you could have given more. And so I started crunching some numbers.
And

Speaker 4 we talked to Steve. We had a couple meetings together.
And I was like, I think we can do this. And if we just really buckle down and get really focused.
And

Speaker 4 we thought we could do it in 12 months. That's what we thought it would take.
And

Speaker 4 God is just so generous. Once we got started, we just got really laser focused and we were able to do it in 8 instead of 12.

Speaker 4 And I have to give a lot of credit to our daughters because we did tell them what we were doing. We had a meeting with them at the beginning and said, this is what we're going to do.

Speaker 4 This is the amount of money. This is how long we think it's going to take.
And they were on board. They said that they were willing to make the sacrifices too.

Speaker 3 And they

Speaker 3 I thought if you told your kids no, they just they spontaneously combust ours are still here. Wow, and you got four girls?

Speaker 1 Yes. How old's the youngest?

Speaker 3 Nine.

Speaker 1 So how did the nine-year-old react? Did they have the biggest reaction of okay, how does this affect me? Or was there none of that? They were like, all right, sounds cool.

Speaker 3 I'm in. Well, we promised them a vacation at the time.
Yeah, we dangled.

Speaker 3 There we go.

Speaker 1 We all had some incentive here. Yeah.
Wow. So what is the principal and interest that you've now freed up every single month for the rest of your life?

Speaker 1 Are we talking a few thousand bucks?

Speaker 4 Yeah. It was at $2,700.

Speaker 1 Oh, my goodness.

Speaker 3 For the rest of your life. Yeah.
That's some good. That living given by no one else.

Speaker 3 It just comes on, right? Yes.

Speaker 1 Wow. That's an exciting phase.
As your first heads off to college, you guys are living a little easier now. You got a spare bedroom and you got some spare money in the budget.

Speaker 3 Absolutely. Absolutely.

Speaker 3 How does this

Speaker 3 It's easy to get complacent in your marriage when you're making great money? You're an amazing,

Speaker 3 you're a great team, right? Somebody's staying at home, somebody's out there making money, you got four amazing, beautiful, wonderful daughters. Things are cooking along.

Speaker 3 This is, in my experience, when couples wake up and their second kid's going to college and they look at each other like, I don't know you.

Speaker 3 And so there's something about this moment that y'all picked this moment specifically to re-engage a hard goal together. What has this meant for your marriage? Doing a hard thing midstream, right?

Speaker 3 Just to be like, hey, you want to do something crazy? Let's pay the house off. Tell me about the impact this has had on your marriage.
It's been wonderful.

Speaker 3 It's really taught us to communicate with each other.

Speaker 3 We discuss all of our purchases. We have monthly date nights.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I think it's kept us, the communication was key. It's kept us close.
I think it's good to have these goals.

Speaker 4 You know, even going forward, we're going to have goals, goals for giving, you know, goals for our children, you know, setting aside money for their college education. And,

Speaker 4 you know, we're really focused on changing our family tree and making sure that they don't go into their 20s with what we went into our 20s with.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Did friends and family know about this? Like, are they, are they weirded out? Did it feel like a personal attack that you guys have been so successful at this?

Speaker 3 Was it awkward to talk about? Well, we actually have some family here today, and we have friends that we've actually brought along on the journey and

Speaker 3 introduced to financial peace. And Katie and I get pretty competitive, and they started paying their homes off.
And so we thought we'd, we need to get on board too.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's true friendship right there.

Speaker 1 Yeah, because we took a call earlier, and they're like, hey, I feel awkward because you know, we're in this phase of life, and you guys have surrounded yourself with people who actually want to see you in, who want to, you know, cheer you on and support you.

Speaker 3 And there's nothing cooler than when

Speaker 3 you guys, as Yoda, you bring in Luke Skywalker, and then they're like, we're going to go ahead and pay our house off. And you're like, oh, crap.
Come on. We're just getting past.

Speaker 3 We got to get on it too, man. Yes.
It's amazing.

Speaker 1 What's the house worth?

Speaker 3 $500,000.

Speaker 1 Woo. And how much do you guys have in your nest eggs?

Speaker 4 Well, yeah, we did the calculation right before we came here. It's a little over $700,000 in investments in cash.

Speaker 1 Wow. Baby Steps Millionaires, just like that.

Speaker 1 And I don't want to, I'm not putting your ages out there. I assume she's still in her 20s.
You look like you're 40 max.

Speaker 1 Am I close?

Speaker 3 45. There we go.

Speaker 1 And here you are, no mortgage payment. The rest of your life ahead of you, just all margin to live and give like no one else.
So you're taking them on vacation. You're going to give more.

Speaker 1 Anything else you're doing to celebrate or kind of upgrade life and have a good time?

Speaker 4 Well, this weekend we have an Airbnb in downtown Franklin, which we love downtown Franklin. It's so cute and quaint.
And so that's part of our celebration. Treat yourself.

Speaker 4 Yeah, we're going to some nice restaurants.

Speaker 3 Good. Eat well in Franklin.
It's awesome. What would you tell a couple right now that's just coasting? Their marriage is good.
They're making fine money. Like, what would you tell them?

Speaker 3 I would tell them that

Speaker 3 once the debt is gone, you just don't realize the weight that is lifted off your shoulders. It's just a great feeling.
And you don't realize it until it happens.

Speaker 1 And can I ask, did you guys have a low interest rate on this thing?

Speaker 3 We did. We did.
Two and a quarter.

Speaker 1 And you paid it off anyways? Do you know how not optimal that is financially?

Speaker 1 You could have invested in Bitcoin or something.

Speaker 3 But now it's 0%.

Speaker 3 There we go.

Speaker 1 Take that. How's that for yourself?

Speaker 3 We always tell people, hey, if you hate it, pay it off and try it. And then go take a HELOC out and you can have that.

Speaker 3 has there been a second you've regretted it? Not one. No, no.
I've never one time heard somebody said, I shouldn't have paid that house off. I've never heard that one time.
Right. Amazing.

Speaker 3 Y'all are absolutely amazing.

Speaker 1 You want to get the girls up here? Are they going to be a part of this with you? Let's get them up. What are their names and ages?

Speaker 3 Adeline is 17.

Speaker 3 Eleanor, 9.

Speaker 3 Sophia is 14.

Speaker 3 And Vivian, 15.

Speaker 1 Beautiful, beautiful family. We've got a couple of every dollar one-year subscriptions to give you guys that you can use.
You can pass it on to kickstart someone else's baby step millionaire journey.

Speaker 1 You guys ready for it?

Speaker 3 Have they been practicing?

Speaker 1 We have. All right, here we go.
We've got Steve and Katie, Adelaide, Vivian, Sophia, Eleanor, $214,000 paid off, house and everything in eight months, making $331 to $391. Count it down, guys.

Speaker 1 Let's hear a debt-free scream.

Speaker 3 To God, we give the glory. Three, two, one.

Speaker 3 We're debt-free.

Speaker 1 It's that simple and it's that hard job. The simple part is just choosing, hey, what if we didn't? What would that be like?

Speaker 1 The hard part is then going, all right, every month, we got to be disciplined. We got to be focused.
We got to be intentional because there's a lot riding on this.

Speaker 3 And we sat down with our kids and said, here's what we're going to do. Are y'all into? We think y'all can handle it.
And their kids said, we're in. It's amazing.
No secrets.

Speaker 3 Everything is different for that family now.

Speaker 1 And more is caught than taught. Those girls will never forget that.
They're going to be living and giving like no one else too. So proud of you guys.
This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr.
John Deloney. Derek's up next in Norfolk, Virginia.
What's going on, Derek?

Speaker 2 Hey, George and Dr. John.
Thanks for having me on the show.

Speaker 3 Very appreciate it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, what's your question?

Speaker 2 So,

Speaker 2 well, getting right to it.

Speaker 2 So, basically, I used to have life insurance through work. It was group term life insurance.

Speaker 2 But since I started following the baby steps that they lays out, I

Speaker 2 wanted to get term life insurance independent of my work. Smart.
So, I went to Xander as my broker, and I got approved for a policy.

Speaker 2 Actually, I already signed for it, but I'm still within the grace period. I can still get back.

Speaker 2 But the question is:

Speaker 2 So, my life insurance policy through work was the premium was $10.50 a month, $10.50.

Speaker 2 My premium for the policy that I got through Sando

Speaker 2 is

Speaker 2 $120 a month.

Speaker 2 And that's just due to my

Speaker 2 technically, my BMI qualifies me as underweight, even though my PCP isn't concerned about it, like it's a normal weight for me.

Speaker 2 So my question was:

Speaker 2 due to the increase in premium,

Speaker 2 is the change from

Speaker 2 my life insurance through work to

Speaker 2 the other policy really worth it?

Speaker 1 I don't know that they're apples to apples, so I'm wary on trying to compare them. I'm guessing the policy through your work doesn't have a big face value.
What's the policy worth?

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 2 the 1050 was a $210,000 buy-up,

Speaker 2 but my employer actually covered an additional $271. So it was, what's that?

Speaker 3 $4.81 total?

Speaker 1 Yes, sir. Okay.
And what's the Xander policy?

Speaker 2 So it's a 20-year term, $1.25 million

Speaker 3 policy

Speaker 2 with the Child Rider.

Speaker 1 Do you see why it's not Apples Apples?

Speaker 1 You're talking triple the amount of face value.

Speaker 2 Yes, sir.

Speaker 1 So I know there's some sticker shock when you see 120 versus 10, but the thing to remember is that 480, I'm guessing, you know, what's your household income or your income?

Speaker 2 So my income, my wife

Speaker 2 is staying at home with her daughter.

Speaker 2 So my income from my primary job is

Speaker 2 90, right in the ballpark of $93,000 annually.

Speaker 2 Perfect. And then I have a side gig that boosts me up to like

Speaker 2 maybe $110,000 annually.

Speaker 3 Awesome.

Speaker 1 And so our philosophy on this is that you want 10 to 12 times your annual income in-term life. And so that 1.25, you're right on track there.
I think that's the right amount for you.

Speaker 1 If you wanted to scale it back to a million, you'd probably be fine there. And the goal here is to become self-insured when this policy runs out.
So 20 years from now, your life looks very different.

Speaker 1 You've been investing for 20 years. you've got the house paid off long before then, so your family would be okay if something happened to you once the policy expires.

Speaker 1 But in the meantime, if God forbid something happened and you've got a stay-at-home mom with no income now, that's scary, isn't it?

Speaker 3 For sure, yeah.

Speaker 1 And so, that's why I will pay the 120 bucks for the peace of mind all day long. We spend 120 bucks on stupider stuff in America.

Speaker 2 That's very true.

Speaker 2 My only hesitation was, so

Speaker 2 when I first applied for the policy, I chose the preferred plus

Speaker 2 health class just because my cholesterol, my blood pressure, everything was

Speaker 2 in line with that health class.

Speaker 2 Then in that premium was like 20 bucks a month, which was kind of in line with with what I was used to paying.

Speaker 2 But then the underwriters took a look at my BMI and they bumped me down to 100 plus and that's what

Speaker 3 got you a little higher.

Speaker 3 Well, it may be worth, it may be worth, I don't know if there's an appeal process or if your doctor can write a letter back and say, no, I've been following my patient forever. He's good to go.

Speaker 3 Because my guess is a lot of those underwriters just look at an actuary table and say, what is the risk for you? That's right, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 But it's definitely worth trying to file the appeal and try to get a better rate. But at the end of the day, right now I'd get something in place.

Speaker 3 Yeah. And there's nothing,

Speaker 3 I haven't found few, I'll say few things, maybe nothing, but few things in my life makes my wife have more peace when we sit down and go over, hey, if I were to die today, here's what happens.

Speaker 3 We have this much money in life insurance. We have this here, and there's just a peace in the house.
So I'm paying that $120 all day, every day. That's right.

Speaker 1 Hey, when this segment ends, folks, if you're watching on YouTube, you're listening on podcasts, the show, as you know it will be over.

Speaker 1 But if you want to catch the next hour, jump over to the Ramsey Network app. It's the only place to get full episodes of the show.
You can download the Ramsey Network app for free.

Speaker 1 We've got a link in the show notes, or just search Ramsey Network app in your app store. If you're on radio, stay tuned.
The show will continue. Today's question of the day is brought to you by YReFi.

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Speaker 3 Question comes from Hunter, North Carolina. My wife and I have a bi-weekly budget meeting.

Speaker 3 During this time, we talk about finances, goals, and direction, and we usually leave this conversation unified and excited.

Speaker 3 One of the agreements we have as a couple is: if there are any surprises that come up that we didn't budget for, we need to communicate with each other before making a purchase.

Speaker 3 Two to three times a week, I find out by looking at our bank account that my wife has made an unbudgeted purchase without communicating with me.

Speaker 3 Over time, this has eroded trust and has hurt our relationship. And when I try to have a conversation about how this makes me feel, she tells me to stop talking and to leave her alone.

Speaker 3 I don't know what to do.

Speaker 3 So I'd say, number one, you need to own reality.

Speaker 3 And that means you guys aren't unified. Unified is not a feeling.
It's an action. It's a way of being.
You can feel excited and like, oh, rah, rah, after a conversation.

Speaker 3 But unity is people working together towards a common goal, right? Y'all are not unified. And this, George, is not about spending.
This is about

Speaker 3 saying, hey, we made an agreement and then someone acting like a child, a wam, wah, baby child. Don't talk to me and running away.
I'm taking my balls and I'm going home, right?

Speaker 3 That's what needs to be discussed here because I promise you, this is not only happening about budget purchases.

Speaker 3 She treats him this way on everything, or he's a nag, and he's always nagging nagging about things either way y'all need to get beneath this thing and here's a quick tip when you sit down don't say you keep running away always use the word i

Speaker 3 i don't feel like i'm doing a good job communicating how scared i am that we come up with these agreements and then we walk away and everything we agreed on isn't upheld and i don't know what i don't know how to communicate with you when i try to talk to you about it For some reason, I set you off.

Speaker 3 You're out. I don't know what to do about that, but I'm struggling here.
And usually an I conversation, beginning of an I conversation is an invitation. It's not a fight.

Speaker 1 Versus a shutdown attack.

Speaker 3 You did that. When you start with you, then just my finger automatically points at you, right? Like you, and it's a declaration of war.
I have to fight you now, right?

Speaker 1 Now, instead of an exclamation, let's put a question mark and dig into, hey, what's going on here? Like, I'm seeing these purchases. Here's the theme I'm seeing.
Tell me if I'm wrong. What's going on?

Speaker 1 What can I do to help create some guardrails so that we can actually stick to the budget?

Speaker 3 But you have to have the conversation deep in the budget on this one because this is about

Speaker 3 either a husband who thinks he's being clearer than he is, or a wife that is just will do his stupid little budget meetings, and then she goes on about her life and could give two craps what they've agreed on.

Speaker 1 And is this a dollar or is it a hundred each time? Yeah, yeah. That also makes a difference.
Getting to the root of it, then we can go, okay, here's what we're doing next as far as the budget goes.

Speaker 3 And if you're nagging over $5 that she spends five, increase her personal like her fun fun money and just call it what it is and move on with your life. If it's something big,

Speaker 3 at the end of the day, y'all need to have this conversation anyway.

Speaker 1 Absolutely. Hey, that puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.
If you want to catch the next one, if you're on YouTube or podcasts, jump over to the Ramsey Network app to continue the party.

Speaker 1 This has been the Ramsey Show.