Your Income Is Your Greatest Wealth Building Tool

Welcome to the Ramsey Show America, where we help you win in your life.

We're going to help you win with your money, win in your work, and win with your relationships.

Happy, happy new year, live for the first time in 2025. George Camel is alongside.
Happy new year, Ken. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
And I'm Ken Coleman, and we're here for you. 888-825-5225 is the phone number.
888-825-5225. All right, George, you ready to get it started? I hope so.
I'm a little foggy. You're

a little foggy? Callers are lined up, and we're going to Australia for the first call of the show today. How fun is this? Charlene joins us.
Charlene, how can we help today? Hi, guys. Happy New Year.
Thanks for taking my call. You bet.
What's going on today? A question about my frivolous spending is where we're at to start off the new year. A little about my background.
I'm a single mom to a toddler earning $88,000 annually and working part-time. I have a budget that I think, or at least I thought was quite strong, and there's a line item in my budget for food and spending.
But without fail, I'm blowing through that allowance every month, and just there's little to no enjoyment with the things that I'm spending that money on. And so there's always kind of buyer's remorse and always way more months than there is money.
And so no matter how I tweak the budget, I just can't seem to fix it.

And so it's not a budget issue. It sounds like it's a behavior issue.
So give us an idea. Give us an idea of this.
You called it food and spending. I know George wants to know this.
I want to know what do you include in food and spending? and then give us an idea of the consistencies of what you're spending too much money on in that line item of food and spending. Takeout, first and foremost.
I hate to cook. So there's a lot of dining out or fast food takeout that's being spent.
And it's shopping of any sort. I can't stop myself from just buying anything that I see online or walk past the store.
Or if my son looks at something and there's a twinkle in his eye, he'll immediately get it and there's just no second of thought. I just buy.
And then it's almost immediately after I've made the purchase that I get that buyer's remorse and I'm annoyed with myself that I've bought it, but, you know, damage is already done. So I'm trying to figure out a way to stop the swiping instead of feeling bad about it afterwards.

Well, one way, the easiest, fastest way is to get rid of the mechanism that you are using to swipe. Is this a credit card that you're using? Yes, yes and no.
I've got the cash. I just don't like using the cash because I know that history has told me I'm not going to have enough at the end of the month.
So I do use my credit card, and it does get paid off every month. But, yes, I use the card so that there's no cash available.
But do you see what would happen there? Let's say if you cut up the card and you only had the cash, which was only enough to cover your bills, you know what you would do? You would just cover your bills. But then what happens if I can't eat? You use the cash to eat and cover your bills.
There's, I don't have enough to eat, and then there's, I'm spending all my money on fast food and takeout. There's a big difference.
Because you don't want to cook. And here's the deal.
Nobody's telling you you've got to be, you know, the greatest cook in the world and all this but you're a single mom so we got to take care of you and the and the toddler and this is going to come down to i think it's two things george one i'm i'm seeing there's there's an emotion that you're not handling very well and you're medicating the emotion with stuff. And then there's the emotion of guilt or exhaustion or something along the cooking to where you go, I don't want to do it.
I despise it so much that I'm going to willingly blow money just to make life a little easier. And by the way, certainly can understand that emotion.

That's the emotion of convenience.

It's hard.

You're a single mom.

I mean, you've got a lot going on.

And it's a lot easier to just drop by, pick up some barbecue on the way home,

and not have to prepare it.

It's already ready to go.

So, George, I just see there's two.

I think this is an emotion issue.

She needs some guardrails like you're trying to tell her, but dare I say, get to the root of it, get to the root of this and, and, and really lock in on the son's twinkling of the eyes and you feel guilty maybe because of the relationship status and his father's, I don't know what it is. And I'm not trying to read your mind, but the best advice I could give is I don't think this is a money problem I think this is an emotion problem and you're medicating okay yeah I kind of feel that too um because I I know that financially I'm okay um I just don't know how to stop.
Do you have debt right now? Yes, I have 13K in a personal loan and 10K in student loans. Okay.
What helps me is having a goal for money instead of just it existing. And so what I want you to do is start to reframe that money and go, nope, that's not takeout money and shopping money.
This is get out of debt money. And I'm going to allocate that money beyond once my bills are paid, we're going to prioritize our budget.
So your budget's great, but it's just a plan. If you don't follow the plan, the plan's useless.
I've created workout plans that I never follow. I never actually worked out.
On paper, it would work if I did it. I'd have a six pack right now, but I don't.
And the same thing applies to your money. So once you start laying out your budget going, okay,

I have to cover my rent, my insurance. I need to put food on the table.
Beyond that, any extra money is going to go toward debt. And once I'm out of debt, you can start to loosen the reins a little

bit. Yeah.
And I appreciate that. George, you're absolutely right.
But Charlene, I have to challenge

you. You just told us and a lot of people listening and watching that you don't know how to stop and i think therein lies the problem you do know how to stop how do you stop not buying takeout you tell me what's the answer? You just don't.

You find another avenue for food.

We start meal planning and we grocery and we budget.

The old quote from Mama Camel, we have food at home.

We have food at home.

I mean, this idea that I don't know how to stop.

Shirley, you're a really nice person, so I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but that is you are acting like a victim.

Like, oh, there's some mysterious thing about me. There's something wrong with me.
There's something in the universe. And you're not saying this, but I want you to sound out.
You hear how silly that sounds when I say that? Yeah. You're not a silly person, are you, Shirley? No.
Stop acting silly. Stop.
Today. it's a daily choice that's how you build discipline let's help her out what can we get to her oh she's in australia i don't know how we do we can still send you know what i'm going to send you a copy of my book breaking free from broke read that all the way through read the margin is breathing room chapter read the spending is self-control chapter that one was written for charlene it's got your name on it so hang on the line kelly's gonna pick up we'll get your address and get you that book and i hope 2025 is the year it is you build the discipline to say no today's the day charlene you're not a silly person you told us all no game we believe you so stop acting silly all right serious business coming up next we'll cover your calls and george and I will discuss when do you stop saying Happy New Year? America and the world needs to settle this and we will next.
Hey, what's up guys? It's Jade Warshaw. And look, if there's anybody who knows student loan debt is a problem, it's me.
My husband and I had $280,000 of it, but we were able to dig ourselves out and you can too. If your student loan payment and interest rate are burying you, refinancing could be the solution.
Now, I recommend contacting my friends at Laurel Road today. Through their online application, you can get an initial rate quote in less than five minutes.
And if you have a more complex situation, you can schedule 30 minutes to talk to an actual human being. Thank goodness.
Laurel Road makes it simple. There are no fees involved and you could save thousands over the life of your loan.
Remember, you should only refinance if it makes sense in your situation. So if you're looking for a low rate or a shorter term so that you can pay off these student loans fast, talk to my friends at Laurel Road about their competitive interest rates and how you could actually get a lower rate by signing up for auto pay.
Listen, nobody's coming to save you from student loan debt. If you want them gone, you can't mess around.
Go to laurelroad.com slash Ramsey to find out more about student loan refinancing.

Again, that's laurelroad.com slash Ramsey.

Laurel Road is a brand of Key Bank National Association.

All credit products are subject to credit approval.

Helping you win in your life.

This is The Ramsey Show.

I'm Ken Coleman alongside George Camel.

And we are here for you. 888-825-5225.
888-825-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525 And we are here for you. 888-825-5225.
888-825-5225. Well, we're rested and relaxed.
We've had a little bit of downtime. And back live today here on the Ramsey Show.
By the way, a beautiful, and I do mean beautiful, studio audience today. Folks from all around the country uh joining us joining us rather live here uh in our ramsey solutions world headquarters so fun to see them and a reminder you can always come join us we have free coffee free baked goods and all kinds of things and love coming out and saying hi to the folks uh during commercial breaks uh happy new year uh to you, George, and Happy New Year to our growing audience.
And this begs the question, because I think of these things, and I could certainly be called neurotic, but I think this is a conversation that serious people want to have. And, you know, we're always helping people get free of debt, free of toxic relationships, free of meaningless work, right? Okay.
I think people want to be free of saying happy new year. Are we done with it as a society? Well, so today's my first day back in the office of the year.
And so I see people, I've already had a couple of meetings this morning and the obligatory happy new year, happy new year. And, and so I asked the question for myself, but for you today, and the American people and people watching from around the world, at what point should we stop saying or should we feel free to stop saying it? And I think that the end of this week, the very first week of January, I think you should be free of never, never having to say it again.
So we're in the first week. When does a weekend in your mind? Well, the first work week, I'm because you're back in the professional rhythm.
So we're talking Friday or Sunday? I'm going to go Friday. Okay.
So Friday end of business, no more happy new year. You don't have to, and you shouldn't have to.
Now the question then becomes, what happens if you show up on Monday and you haven't seen some of your team, which is going to be the case, and they say happy new year to you? Do you reciprocate? I think you have to reciprocate, otherwise you're a weirdo. Yeah.
I'm not going to offer it up past week one. So you're in agreement with me? Do you agree with week one? We should all stop? Unless it's an acquaintance I haven't seen in a while, and it's still within the two-week window.
I'm going to give it two weeks for someone you haven't seen. Maybe it's a phone call, an email.
Wow, very nuanced. Very nuanced, George.
I just think the world we'd all be better off if we all said, week one, happy new year. After week one, can we move on? I will say this.
It doesn't bring me. It makes everybody's life easier.
It doesn't add any value to my life. All right.
It doesn't bring me any joy. All right.
Before we get to the phones, one other quick thing here. Because I take issue with what you said.
I would like to come in Monday. And I told our super producer, David, this in a meeting.
And he agrees agrees and he's one of the nicer people on the planet. So I tend to feel confident about this position.
If someone says happy new year to me come Monday, I'm going to pass. I'm just going to go, Hey, how you doing? Hey, I couldn't stomach the social awkwardness.
Well, I think if you let it sit and don't respond at all, it's weird. But if just try it.
Say Happy New Year to me like it's Monday. Hey, Happy New Year, Ken.
Hey, man, what's going on? How was the holiday? That was smooth. See? You fooled me.
So I wanted to model this for everybody. Now you're trying to get me to go into the past.
No, I'm not. Instead of moving to the future.
I'm having what would be normal conversation. I don't have to respond in kind.
You don't care about what happened over the holidays. I'm going to suggest that you don't care about how happy my New Year is.
I would agree with that. See, we're all just saying something.
Why are we saying it? That's how we exist in a society, Ken. There it is.
I hope we've set some of you free. If you see me in public.
Don't say it. On Monday and you say Happy New Year to me, understand I'm changing the lane.
I'm changing directions. I'm not going to say it.
And I feel very good about it. I hope you get trolled come Monday with so many Happy New Years.
Well, here's what's great about the trolling. For all you people who disagree with me and you're taking shots at me in the YouTube comments, I'll never know because I don't look at them.
I will send them to you. I will mail them to your home address.
George, on the other hand, is in the comments. I sleep peacefully at night.
I'll screenshot it, print them out, and I'll sort them all in an envelope. And I won't look at them.
If I see a shot of text come through, George, I'm going to ignore it. Wow, this guy's good.
All right, here we go. Fort Myers, Florida.
Aaron is on the line. Aaron, how can we help? Hi, Ken.
Hi, George. I don't know if anyone wished you happy new year yet but happy new year you get one more day and one more day you get today and tomorrow show don't make me hang up this phone i'm not going to i said i'm going to be a man of my word happy new year aaron and everybody can tell i can mean that all right aaron what's the call all call? All right.
So my wife, she's in flight school. She has 100 hours.
She's about to get her private pilot license. And she has two years left.
So we sold our house. We did the whole Ramsey thing, sold our expensive cars.
My wife and I are driving a, we have two cars, but, you know, we have a nice 2010 Prius and, you know, we're trying to be smart with our money. But, uh, so I have about 50,000 left in savings.
Um, we bring in 72,000 a year for flight school costs about 50,000 a year. And, uh, we $80,000 in savings in September.
So the money's going quick, and I don't know if I'm going to have to go into debt to, well, we are going to have to go into debt to continue this flight school. So you currently have enough to get through one of the years in savings.
So we're really concerned about the final year. Yes.
When is the money due? Is it due exactly a year from now? So we pay as we go. It's about a grand a week.
Every time she goes, she pays cash. Is there a discount for paying cash? No, there isn't.
All right, so wait a second. This is a reasonable goal.
This seems very impossible to you, doesn't it, Aaron, the way you're presenting? It feels like a mountain you can't climb. True or false? I'd say true because we went through about $20,000 in savings since September.
Yeah, but you had it. You saved you saved it my question is what must happen between the two of you to make the additional 50 000 above and beyond your current income that to me is very doable the two of you have to come up with 50 000 and've got about two years to do it or a year or so to do it.

Is that right?

Yes.

Did I get my math right?

Is it a year or two years from now you've got to have the 50?

So we're paying it as we go, but my math tells me we're going to run out of money probably within like six or seven months.

But you just told me you have 50K in savings and a whole year is 50K. So you could cash flow the entire next year.
And that's without saving an extra penny. Yeah.
So you guys can make, between the two of you, an additional $50,000 by selling something, picking up some odd jobs, a side job. Am I right or am I wrong? Is this possible, Aaron? Yeah, so I was looking at getting another job.
So I'm working 40 hours a week as an estimator for a construction company. I was looking at picking up shifts at the Olive Garden, and I think I'd probably be able to bring in maybe like another grand a week doing that.

Well, that's exactly what you said you guys were cash flowing.

So it's possible.

It was a yes or no question.

You sounded like a politician on a Sunday morning show, which I appreciate.

So I'll ask again, with both of you being committed to not going into debt, which is

how you've lived your life to this point, could you guys come up with the $50,000 when it's needed, yes or no? I think right now we're looking at maybe coming, I think we're, I feel like we're going to be short. But you should run for Congress.
You should run for Congress. That's a fantastic avoidance of two direct questions.
George, I see the balance of my time to the gentleman from Massachusetts. You're saying, I feel like, I feel like.
Let's put it on paper and go, we have 50 grand in the bank. We need 50 more grand one year from now.
Here's what that looks like. We need a grand a week.
We each need to come up with 500 bucks a week. Here's what it's going to take to get there.
What would you do? What would your hack be? I'd go get that side job and have her get some skin in the game too, also working, so that we're not missing each other. I mean, they can schlup breadsticks together at Olive Garden.
Hey. Then they're together.
And you're eating for free. You're eating for free.
And who doesn't like the endless salad over there? I'd stick to the salad. Those breadsticks will do a number on you.
Well, that's why I said the salad. You don't want the endless breadsticks or else, you know, you can't fit in the plane.
That's a problem. But we digress.
Hey it's doable. A theme already in today's show George.
What's that? People don't feel like they can. We're gonna maybe have to address some feelings a little bit later.
All right we'll be right back. Don't move.
This is the Ramsey Show. You spent years trying to get everything just right for your family.
Now you need an easy way to make sure your important financial documents are as organized

as the rest of your house.

Well, good news.

Knockbox, that's N-O-K-Box, as in next of kin box, is a complete system that helps you

be sure that you leave happy memories, not a mess, when you pass away.

Knockbox is a simple way to organize important paper and digital documents, IDs, tax returns, insurance policies, estate plans, accounts, and other personal history in one manageable place. Your family will feel your love and every detail you take care of.
So start taking care of them at knockbox.com slash Ramsey. A well-organized legacy is a gift to your family.
That's nokbox.com slash Ramsey. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show.
I'm Ken Coleman. I'm joined in studio by my colleague, George Camel, and we're thrilled to be here for you.
888-825-5225. You got a money question? You got a paycheck question? I want more in my paycheck, Ken.
I'm your guy, so we want you to make more money and keep more money. To that end, George.
Tell people the best way to make the most of their money. What would you say? Well, you got to kind of do a financial audit of your life.
Income, what are my expenses? And the best way to do that is through a budget. And our team created an amazing app that's free to you.
Go download it. It's called EveryDollar, where you can plan your spending, track your expenses, save for what matters most, all in an easy to use app.
And if you've got a spouse, they can be logged in full accountability, transparency, and that's what it's going to take.

If you've got money goals in 2025, I don't care what they are, the budget is the crux of controlling your money goals. So go download it for free in the App Store or Google Play or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast.
By the way, there's all kinds of gold in the show notes. If we mention something and you think, oh, I didn't get that, just get to the show notes and everything is linked there for you fine folks.
888-825-5225 is the phone number. Erin is going to start us in this segment.
She's in Denver, Denver, Colorado. Erin, how can we help? Hi, Ken and George.
Thanks for taking my call. You bet.
What's going on today? So I have a question regarding my student loans.

They're serviced by Moheela and they're being mismanaged by Moheela.

They're still occurring interest when they should be at 0%.

And so I'm just curious if I continue to fight the battle with them to get the interest correct and reapply all these payments that they've been splitting between interest and principal, or if I go ahead and just, I have two loans with them and I'm in a position to pay off one of the loans today. So if I just go ahead and pay that off and just continue the interest battle on the other loan sequence.
Do you have this agreement in writing where it's super clear that you are indeed supposed to be at a 0% situation right now? Yes, I have letters from Mojila dated back to July that say I'm on 0% while the loans are in the courthouse because I'm on the saved repayment plan. And so I will be at 0% until that court case is finalized, which currently my account states I'm in administrative forbearance until April 30th of 2025.
So I've continued to make payments because 0% means 100% of my payment

then goes to principal, but that's not what Mojila is doing.

Yeah. I mean, have you talked to somebody up the ladder there?

The highest I can get is somebody that's, quote,

an advanced agent in their resolution team.

I have talked to somebody in that department probably six times.

Same person?

Every time I call.

No, I get a different person every time.

I don't know. team.
I have talked to somebody in that department probably six times. Same person? Every time I call.
No, I get a different person every time. And what's the answer? I have their ID numbers.
What do they say to you when you tell them what you just told us? They say, oh yes, we see that and we'll get this six and seven to 10 days. And this has literally been going on since July.
How much interest is on the line here? Total between the two loans to date, it's $1,800. Okay.
And how long have you been fighting this? How many hours have you spent? That's my thing. Like it's, I'm on the phone at least two to three hours every time I call between, like, hold times and actually speaking with someone.
This was my gut. And then I'm circling back.
Erin is worth more than the time she's spending and the brain calories she's burning for this. I would be done with it.
You said you have the cash to pay off one. We'll fight it on the back end, and they'll write you a check if you want to continue fighting it.
And I hope they do resolve it, and they'll write you a check for the difference that you were owed. But I would be done with it.
I'd pay off both loans if you can today. Attack it with everything you got.
Yeah, unfortunately I can't. I'm not in a position to pay off the second one.
It's just under $60,000, but I am in a position to pay off the smaller one. Are they going to do the same kind of garbage to you on the $60,000 doing the same thing.
So I'm, I'm got to fix that. Every time I call, I'm fighting them about both of them.
Are you in control of when the payments are happening? So currently, yes. Currently, I actually don't have to make any payments.
So what I have been doing is setting money aside into my high interest savings account. Um, until I got to a position to a, either the loans had came up, had, we're going to come out of the 0% and then I would dump everything on the principal.
Um, or till I had enough time, enough in the savings to pay off the loan in full. Um, because that, that's coming directly from Mojiva because they're telling me every time I make a payment there, it's a consolidated loan.
So they look at those loans as being one loan, even though they're two separate, like subsidized versus unsubsidized. So they'll proportionately split my payment.
Can you go in manually and apply money to the principal on one of them? Nope. They tell me I can, but on their website I cannot.
And if I call to ask them to do that, it is still the same system. Like this Moheela system is broken.
I'd like to get the CEO on the line. I mean, these two loan companies are inept.
This is on purpose. They're malicious at worst.
They're inept at best. I say malicious.
You're going to spend more in attorney fees trying to fight this than you should be owed in interest. So I just don't think it's worth the fight.
I would aggressively pay these down. I wouldn't even wait until you have all the money in full.
I would just start putting all the money you can on the principal every single month until it's gone. Okay.
So even though they're going to continue to make the payment applied to principal and interest? Well, the faster you pay the principal down, the less interest you're going to pay. And so if you just let it sit and they're charging interest, it's going to be worse.
George, I disagree with you on this one. Not about paying it off, but I would fight this.
The reason these people do this is because enough people put up with it. And Aaron, I'm not in any way casting judgment on you.
I'm saying every time you get somebody on the phone, I would take their name down. Yes.
I would take their name and ID number. And I would tell them I'm recording the conversation.
And then the next time I talk to somebody and say, listen, this is what's happened. I've documented all this.
How many times has happened? I've been lied to. And I am going to hold you personally accountable.
Do you want to be held accountable for this? Because I'm recording this. I would get very, very serious about this because they play this game to wear people like you out.
And I wouldn't quit fighting. Because George, here deal if she does that she's going to keep getting ripped off she should not be paying one cent of interest via the agreement and i wouldn't just throw it away these people need to be dealt with and the ceo of this then she needs to go public you know what i would do i would go to uh is this a canadian company Oh, no, sorry, Denver.
You're in Denver. I'm sorry.
I'm looking. I'm in Denver.
Go to the local media. Go to the local media.
They love this stuff. Local media.
I'd call every one of them in the hotline. I'd go, I'm getting ripped off and I represent.
I would make a stink out of this. They do not want bad publicity.
I've contacted legislators and the Colorado Attorney General's office. Forget that.
They're worthless. I can absolutely contact news stations.
I would go social media and I would publish it all and I'd go to the news. You've got to fight these people, George.
The other piece of this, Aaron, that I would personally do, I would be researching all over the internet in Reddit threads. I just looked them up.
This is not just happening to you. It's happening to a lot of other people.
I would see, are there people who are getting resolution? What is being done? Who can I contact? And there's power in numbers and power in other people's experiences. So I would be doing a lot of homework to figure out how to get to the bottom of this.
But at the same time, I don't want it just consuming every fiber of your being for the next six months. I agree with that.
But you can take it up several notches. But I am Mr.
Customer Service. I am Mr.
I'd like to speak to the manager. So I get it.
I'd like to speak to the CEO. That's what I'd like.
It kind of reminds me of that scene from Christmas Vacation where Cousin Eddie goes and gets the CEO in his pajamas, puts a bow around him, brings him to the living room to answer for the Jelly of the Month Club. That's what happens in movies.
Aaron can't do that. I know.
But this is wrong. It's like trying to talk to the Wizard of Oz.
I'm sorry, Aaron. I wouldn't quit fighting.
I don't think we should let big companies steal from we the people, and they're stealing from you. This is wrong.
Oh, my gosh. All right.
The American way. We've got to fight, Ken.
Going to get a quick little, what's the pill I like to chew when I get into this? A Tums. I'm going to take a Tums.
An antacid for Ken. On behalf of you the people.
I'll call myself when we're ready to answer more questions coming up. This is The Ramsey Show.
All right, Dave, you have some strong opinions. Possibly, yeah.
I think so. Okay, because you really prefer credit unions over big banks.
So why is that? Well, credit unions, for one thing, are non-profit, which means that the members, the customers customers own the credit union. So any profits that the credit union makes goes back into customer pricing.
So you get better interest rate on savings, cheaper checking, and so on, that kind of thing. And what's more important than that, though, is the fact that the customer is the owner changes the spirit on the credit union.
So I find very few credit unions that aren't very customer-centric. Yes.
Well, and I think we have found one that is incredible, and that's Fairwinds. They are an incredible credit union that is really out with the heart to help the customer.
You know, that's why we're partnering with them, because they've got a scope to be able to handle the Ramsey audience, and they're the right kind of people with the right kind of values. And they've done a really, really good job with customer service and the deals that they're offering.
The Ramsey tribe is incredible. Yeah, absolutely.
And you're right. Their customer service is unbelievable.
Winston and I just signed up and we got an account. And I'm not kidding.
It took less than five minutes. It was so user-friendly.
The step-by-step approach was unbelievable. And then the next day, my phone rings and it says Fairwinds on my phone.
So I answered it and talked to someone there and they said, yeah, they give calls to every new customer. And so again, they just really care about your experience.
And I so, so appreciate that. So again, you guys, I know it can be a pain to switch banks or to open up new accounts, but Fairwinds, again, they make it so easy.
Plus anything that you can do at a traditional branch, you can do with them at fairwinds.org or on their app. And you'll have free access to over 33,000 ATMs.
Hey, you guys know how much I hate banks in general. And so for me to do this is a big deal.
Talk to our friends at Fairwinds and check out the combined checking and savings bundle

that they created just for the Ramsey tribe. You guys, it's incredible.
Yeah, you guys, it's so

easy to join Fairwinds no matter where you live. So go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey to learn more.

That's F-A-I-R-W-I-N-D-S.org. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show.
I'm Ken Coleman alongside George Camel. The phone number is 888-825-5225.
We're answering your questions about your money, and that includes how do I keep it? How do I budget? How do I get out of debt? How do I make more money? George and I are combining on all those fun topics today for you. All right, today's question of the day is brought to you by Why Refi? If private student loan debt is taking away your peace of mind and you don't see a way out, good news, you might need Why Refi.
Why Refiances, defaulted private student loans that other places won't touch and gives you a low fixed rate loan built for you. So go to Y-Refi.com slash Ramsey today.
That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey. It may not be available in all states.
Today's question comes from Lucas in Oregon. I was in the medical field for five years.
I left that job to help my dad with his company and take care of my mom who was sick. My mom ended up passing away and I've stayed at my dad's company for three years.
Recently, my former boss called and made me a great offer to come back. What do I do? I'm currently making 60k with my father, but his company isn't stable and we're trying our best to get it profitable again.
If I went back to my former position, I'd be making 72,000. I just bought a house and need stable income, but how do I leave my dad? I've really helped his company.
Well, Lucas, this is a heavy question and just reading it feels heavy to me and I'm not walking this out. So certainly feel bad for you in that this is a tough decision, but I think it's a clear decision.
And clear decisions aren't always easy. And this is a clear decision that's really tough.
And what I mean by that is I think it's very obvious that you should go back to your former employer. You enjoyed the job.
They've given you a great offer, your words, not mine. And you only left them to help dad out.
You've helped dad out tremendously, but it's not your responsibility to run dad's company. It's not your responsibility to grow dad's company.
And you're going to have to do what is best for you. If you do not, you will resent your dad, even though he's done nothing wrong in this situation.
So I think you asked the question, how do I leave my dad? I think you leave him with respect. I think you leave him with clarity, and I think you leave him with confidence.
If you can achieve those three things, then what will be a tough decision will be less tough. In other words, I'm going to leave with respect and honor.
I'm going to treat him very, very well. I am going to be super clear with him as to why and when and how.
And I think, again, that will then allow you to be confident that you are, in fact, doing the right thing, George. So that's, I don't know what you want to add to that, but please do.
That's a tough situation. The red flags with dad's company.
Because Lucas says, hey, I've been there for three years and I've really helped his company, and yet we're trying our best to get it profitable again. That's scary.
That might mean that this business has some serious flaws that you can't fix if it's been three years. That's right.
And so if it's unstable, you're putting your own family in jeopardy by staying here and you're leaving on the table a 20% pay raise with a more stable company. So it's not to say this is a forever move.
Maybe he gets it profitable again and five years from now you step back in or one day you take it over. Who knows? Might be doing him a favor.
But yeah, in this season- My dad realizing, we shouldn't try to keep this afloat. He needs to get someone who can help this business or he needs to figure it out.
And I don't think you're the secret sauce. There might be a savior complex going, I'm the one who needs to save this.
And with mom passing, that adds a whole nother element of trying to stick together with the family. But I think, like you said, Ken, it's going to lead to resentment.
Yeah. Lucas, thank you for the question.
We really believe in you and you got to do what's best for you on that. And that ends up being best for everybody is what I have found.
All right. Ontario, Canada is where we go next.
And Emily is there. Emily, how can we help? Hi, guys.
How's it going? Can you hear me? Yes, we can hear you well. Yes, so I was overpaid about $6,000 and since it's over a certain amount, I'm unable to repay it in full and they're only giving me the option to garnish my wages.
Should I put this $6,000 towards debt repayment or should I store it in a high yield savings account until it's time to get my wages garnished? When will the wages be garnished and how much per month or per paycheck? I have no idea. I actually have a colleague who's in a similar spot and she's been waiting about a year for those wages to be garnished.
And I don't know how much. It's usually between 10 and 20 percent of the paycheck.
Okay. And will you be able to still accomplish your budget with 80 to 90 percent of your take-home pay? I think so.
Or your net pay? Yeah. Right now I'm putting almost everything extra onto debt repayment, so I would just have to scale that back a little bit, but I am living far below my means.
Okay. So it's either I pay off the debt faster now, knowing that it'll slow down later when the wages are garnished.
Right. Okay.
Yeah, I mean, you're not in a situation where you're going to owe six grand all at once, which puts you in jeopardy if you don't have the money. So I'm okay with using this money to expedite your goals knowing that I'm going to need to ratchet down my budget later on.
Okay, that sounds good. I really needed the reassurance.
Yeah, what's your total debt that you're trying to pay off? Yeah, so I have $24,000 on my car, and I have $210,000 in a mortgage. Okay.
So just really the car is your consumer debt? Yes. And this will get it down to $18,000? And then how quickly can you pay it off at that point? To my New Year's resolution.
So I'm trying to get it paid off by next December. I really think if I buckle down, I can do it.
So one year? Yes. Okay.
Oh, I see where you're going, George. Emily, do you see what we're coming up with here on this plan? If you can knock the 18 out in one year, and we believe you can, love that that's your resolution.
Now all of a sudden, let's say it takes a year for them to start garnishing. What's that car payment that you're paying right now every month? Right now, I'm putting $1,000 on the car.
However, I just thought I moved into a duplex that I purchased. I just signed a tenant and I'm getting $1,600 additionally.
So that will all be rolling over onto the car as well. Right.
But my point is, I'm trying to make the case. I love what you're doing and what George said because by the time they start to garnish, you're going to still be ahead.
You're afraid of a payment. You've freed up a huge amount of money to where you're not even going to feel the garnish.
So we love that plan. Okay.
Yep. Thank you.
Thanks for the call. Thanks for the call.
Really fun. Let's see.

Simon in Boston, Massachusetts is next. Simon, how can we help? Hi, I'm a 22-year-old.
I'm debt-free. I just recently graduated from college, and I have a job I really like so far in the data field at a big tech company.

Nice.

And I essentially want to figure out how to make sure I'm putting my money in the right places and being smart with my money. All right, Uncle George.
I love this. This is right up your alley.
Well, it's so much more fun, Simon, when you're debt free and this money can go toward building your future instead of paying for the past. Exactly.
So I love that you're thinking like this at 22 instead of how do I upgrade my life now that I'm in my big boy job? Instead, you're going, hey, I want to make sure I make the most of this and don't blow it. And so that's where the budget is going to come in handy.
And so you're going to list out your income. Do you know what your income will be? Yeah.
So I'm about four months into it right now. The base pay, this is all pre-tax, is $78,000 a year.
And then I never know whether to kind of include this or not, but there should be a $7,800 bonus around April. Awesome.
Well, you'll include that in April's budget. Okay.
And when that happens, you can apply it to your next goal. That might be for you getting your emergency fund in place.

Do you have three to six months of expenses saved up right now? Yeah, I've got about $17,000 just in my bank account. Let's go.
Okay, and then are you investing right now in the company retirement plan? Yeah, so right now I kind of have it at 10% because I just don't want to throw too much money and then I'm planning to move out in the next couple of months. So I don't want to have nothing ready for that.
And that will be into a rental probably around $1,800, $1,900 a month. Okay.
I would ratchet that up to 15%. You make amazing money with no debt.
So you're going to have no problem finding more margin to throw toward maybe a down payment for a savings account there. But that's going to be your key.
I would have a focus goal. And for you, that might be that down payment on a house.
Would you agree that's the next goal once you're investing? Yeah. I mean, I don't really know where I want to move permanently, but I definitely would like to invest in real estate as well at some point if I can.
That'll come later. Right now, I want you to find a primary residence as you get older, and it's going to take a lot of money, especially in the Boston area.
So I would sock it away. Hang on the line.
I'm going to send you every dollar premium, our budgeting app, for free so that you can get started and make a plan for this. But he's on the way, Ken.
This is amazing. Way to go, Simon.
Simon says, how do I stack some cash? I didn't think of the Simon Says reference. I was there for you.
Good hour. Don't move.
More Ramsey Show coming up. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.
Alright, you've heard me say this a thousand times and I'm going to keep saying it. You're worth being well.
And I believe therapy can help. Right now, BetterHelp is offering 90% off your first week of therapy, now through March 31st.
So if you've been on the fence, this is your chance to try therapy for a fraction of the cost. Because let's be honest, we all spend money on things we hope will make us feel better, like new clothes, organic groceries, gym memberships.
But when it comes to actually digging in and getting real with our mental and emotional well-being, we hesitate. We pause.
And I know actually going to therapy can seem like a huge first step, but please hear me. Your mental and emotional health are just as important as your physical health.
BetterHelp makes therapy more accessible than you think because it's online, so you can talk with your therapist when it works for your schedule. You just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist, and you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost.
Your well-being is worth it, and this offer makes it easier than ever to start. 90% off your first week of therapy now through March 31st, 2025.
Visit betterhelp.com slash Deloney to get started. That's betterhelp.com slash Deloney.
Welcome to the Ramsey Show where we help you win in your life. We're going to help you win with your money, win in your work, and win with your relationships.
Alongside George Campbell, I'm Ken Coleman. The phone number to jump in, 888-825-5225.
888-825-5225. Happy New Year to everybody.
We're only going to say that, George and I, for two more days. One day only.
And then you're going to have to get over it. We won't be't be on the show tomorrow so we'll see what happens tomorrow so this is kind of your day to say happy new year and get a response because next week when we're on if we're on together not happening you're not hearing it not hearing it we're done with it maybe happy tuesday that's it i'll do that i like that better all right let's get it started let's go to phoenix arizona where kelly is waiting kelly happy new year how can we help

happy new year guys thank you for taking my call you bet what's happening my question is where would a mastectomy reversal fit in on the baby steps um i've looked into my insurance and my fiance's and neither one covers it.

It's going to be about $10,000 and we do have consumer debt, obviously not working that together at the moment, waiting until we get married, but just kind of wanting to plan. Do we pause that and stock up the money because we want to start a family or how much debt do you guys, how debt do you guys have uh separately um i have about 15 000 and he has about 50 oof and um i'm assuming he he agree he's in agreement with this uh reverse vasectomy yes oh boy i gotta tell you that's a good dude how old is he how old is this guy um he's a 42 and i'm 33 so i'm a little bit older too so we're not wanting to wait so time is of the essence that was my next question so now i see why you're trying to do this quickly yes well the procedure.
We want this doctor to be steady and

slow on that one. Take your time.
On behalf of every dude who's listening and watching this call right now, the next question is who's paying for it? Yeah. Well, they are.
They're going to wait until they get married. Like together? Yeah, we're going to wait until we get married.
Okay. When is that? Um, the end of the summer.
Okay. So we'll call it, and are you wanting to immediately, you know, try to have a family at that point? That's kind of the plan.
I'm a little nervous, just not for the financial aspect, but for the medical risks involved with the procedure, but he's talked to his doctor and is willing and all in. So, all right.
So, um, yeah, we're going to want to start as soon as possible. Okay.
And how old are you? I'm 33. Okay.
So because this is a financial question and I know George is more than ready to answer this, but I feel like we've got to have a real conversation for a second. Um, there's that it's going to work.
And I'm sure you guys know the medical percentages of it happening, but there's no guarantee. There's also no guarantee that even if the procedure goes fantastic, that you guys are going to be able to conceive in the timeline that you would like.
You acknowledge this, yes or no? Yes. And so I don't wish that on anybody.
I mean, I want everything to work in the timeline, but you know, it has to be discussed when we start talking about a $10,000 bill and you know, we don't want you to go into debt. So George, I bring this up to say, I think I want to make the best financial move, period, for this couple, not the best way to figure out how to pay for this procedure, which may or may not yield what they want it to.
Yeah, I mean, there's risk there, for sure. Does that change? I guess my point is, I'm asking you a question on behalf of Kelly, does that change your advice? I may have a different take than you.
My take is that if this is, I mean, this is a very unique situation, so I'm not going to say this is blanket advice for anyone who called in, but for Kelly, I would say let's pause the baby steps and let's both stack up as much cash as we can, make sacrifices needed, make minimum payments on the debts until we're married, we have the money to do the surgery and the reversal, and then we'll push play on the baby steps. All right.
That's your take, huh? That's my take. I mean, this is, you know, starting a family that kind of supersedes the baby steps.
If this was, let's say, you know, IVF or something like that, Dave would say, hey, let's pause the steps and let's save up to pay for this in Yeah. The goal, A1 is not going to more debt.
A2 is pay off existing debt. George, we do make $165,000 combined, so it shouldn't take more than three months.
So what if we aggressively said we're going to save up the 10K and then pay off all of our debt before we're even married. Well, but then that does, does that change her timeline? Kelly, we have a two part question there.
What's your answer? Yeah. I mean, we can, our finances obviously aren't combined and we are both working them separately.
So he has, you know, a second job as well. I am, am working towards that as well.
So, I mean, it's possible that we might be able to knock out a lot of it in the next six months. Well, now there's a total goal of, you know, obviously it's not combined because you're not married, but we're looking at $75,000 paid off in, let's call it seven or eight months.
So collectively, can we be throwing 10 grand a month at these debts?

That might look, you know, you're throwing four, he's throwing six, whatever.

But the goal is, can we be debt-free with money in the bank to pay for this?

Yeah.

And you've got to pay for a wedding, right?

Is this a small courthouse situation or is this lavish?

Yeah, it's going to be a small.

Yeah, what's the calendar on this?

Courthouse and then he's in the doctor's office the next week like no honeymoon straight to the emergency it feels like what i'm hearing am i right kelly or tell me if i'm wrong no so it would be like an elopement situation where it'd be a five-day wedding slash honeymoon and then come back and then when when is he going under the knife again? Well, he has to meet with a specialist, a urologist, but he's talked to his general doctor about it, and they see no problems with his age or the reversal, but they want him to go to the urologist to get it scheduled. Okay, all right, so we're on the same page.
No reason for debt. I'm tweaking my advice, though.
I'm going to rescind it and go, let's attack this debt, and then we're going to be able to save up for the surgery within a month at that point once we're married. I am in agreement with that, George.
I was going to go not, I mean, it's not that I disagree with you and Dave on the family first, but it's like, can we wait a little bit? Can we get married? Can we, you know what I mean, before we start putting this pressure on ourselves to get pregnant. Yeah, we're not talking about waiting two years.
We're talking about waiting a month or two. Yeah, at max.
Something like that. I just, that's, A, it's all cash, Kelly, of course.
You guys don't need to go into debt for this. But to George's point, you could pause the baby steps in his plan.
But I don't think we need to do that. I think you guys can knock the debt out and cash flow this procedure.
The reason I like putting the debt first is it puts fuel on this debt-free journey because now you have a much deeper why. And when you have that deeper why, you're willing to take on that second job.
You're willing to do the extra shift because you want to get to that surgery and get to having that family. So what we want for you, Kelly, is debt-free and baby on the way.
That's what we want and I think that's what you want. Is he on board for all this? Yep.
This is a good dude. Yep, he's great.
Listen, all you had to say was he's 42 and he's going to go get a reverse vasectomy and this is a good man. This is a good man.
Might be slightly crazy, but he's a good man. I need a Tums after that one, Cam.
No, it's the wrong pill. Oh, sorry, maybe some Advil and an ice pack.
This is the Ransom Show. You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies and there's too little life insurance or none at all.
Grieving families are suddenly left behind scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet. I also discovered that there are a lot of ripoffs in the life insurance world, like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity.
What you need is level term life insurance, usually 10 to 12 times your income, which is the smartest, most affordable way to protect your family. The key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for you, not for the insurance company.
This is exactly what my friend Jeff Zander and his team at Zander Insurance are all about. They shop the term life companies to find you the best options, and they've been around for over 95 years.
So you know they'll be there when you need them. Zander is the real deal, and that's why they've handled all my personal insurance for over 25 years.
I trust them, and you can too. Visit Xander.com for instant online quotes or for a more personal touch, give them a call at 800-356-4282.
If you're a small business owner and you feel burned out, then you've got to join us at Entree Leadership Summit this May 18 through 21. This leadership conference will refuel you with fresh vision and connect you to like-minded leaders so you can take your business to the next level.
But you better hurry because we're running out of seats. We've got less than 200 seats left.
If you want to join us in Denver, Colorado, go to RamseySolutions.com slash summit right now. Or if you're listening on YouTube or podcast, just click the link in the description.
Welcome back to the Ramsey show alongside George Campbell. I'm Ken Coleman.
So excited that you're with us. Triple eight, eight, two, five, five, two, two, five is the number to call in.
You got a question about saving some money, getting out of debt. How about making more money in that paycheck? Well, you got the guys today to help you out with that.
Thrilled to take your call. 888-825-5225.
All right, George, do you have a bit of a real estate prediction as we start the new year? What do you think about the housing market? What do you think? Do you pay attention to it at all? Yeah, it's been a bit of a roller coaster. I thought things would kind of just start trending nicely.
We're going to see rates start to continue dipping slowly, but it's been a little bit of whoop. It's back up.
Whoop. All right.
It's down a little bit. Whoop.
So I think we're going to see more of the same in 2025. I think over time, we're going to see a dip, but I think in the meantime, it'll be a little bit of a rocky road.
Okay. All right.
I'm reading some stuff where some people think it's going to be a good year. I think it'll be good.
It shouldn't take longer than we would like it Okay. All right.
Well, that's why we created Ramsey's Real Estate Home Base. That's right.
It's called Ramsey's Real Estate Home Base. This is the place with all the tools and resources you need, whether you're buying or selling, George.
And half the battle is confidence if you're buying or selling so that you're making good decisions. You're going to find things like calculators, start-to-finish guides, how-to articles, a podcast, a book, even a video course, all with practical, easy-to-follow steps so that you can navigate through buying or selling.
If you're ready to take the next steps toward your home goals with peace of mind, go to RamseySolutions.com slash realestate. Super easy to remember.
RamseySolutions.com slash real estate. Or click the link in our show notes if you're listening on YouTube or via your favorite podcast.
And again, all the stuff we tell you about, if you go, I didn't hear what he said, show notes. My two favorite words, George.
It's where you get everything that we talk about. You don't have to stress.
All right, let's get back to the phones. Raleigh, North Carolina is where Ryan sits and waits for us.

Ryan, how can we help? Hey, how are you doing today? Oh, we're doing well. What's going on?

I've got two, well, I got a main point and a question for you. My main point is my wife and

I got married in May and we are debt-free. We paid off 65 grand in less than 12 months.
Congratulations, man. That is big time.
Yeah. Yeah.
Super happy about that. Uh, God is good and FPU definitely helped us.
Love to hear it. And what's the question? Yeah.
So, um just a bit concerned about my mother. She's 69.
She has about $4,000 in retirement, so not a whole lot. And we're just a bit concerned about doing things the biblical way, honoring the Lord, honoring her, when my grandparents passed, she's not going to really have a whole lot left from them.
So, you know, we are kind of preparing ourselves for the financial burden of maybe having to take care of her. And, you know, it's not that we don't want to.
We definitely want to help her out.

But, you know, what exactly advice would you give to us?

You know, we try to get her FPU.

She doesn't really seem too interested in that.

So what advice would you give us?

Does she have debt?

Luckily, she does not have, I think, maybe, she has maybe like one credit card it's got like maybe three hundred dollars on it uh other than that no does she own her home no she doesn't she rents and does she have any kind of income outside of give us the whole income situation that would be if she's taking social security or not any other kind of, and then a job. What's her income look like? Yeah, so she has Social Security, and then she takes that, and then she also substitute teaches.
But a recent kind of job event, as maybe you ruled that out, so we're trying to encourage her to, you know, just get like any job. She has a college degree.
She could go be a bank teller. Um, but she, she's very picky about what she wants to do.
And, you know, so she's not very encouraged to go find a new job. Um, what's her social security benefit payment? I think it's between 12 and 16.
Is that enough to cover her bills? Barely. Did she ask you for your help, your advice? Not really.
So, you know, every now and then she'll ask me for money. Do you it to her you know it's my mom man yeah i do how often is she asking and how much uh i would say probably once a month and you know anything i can do whether it's an extra 20 or why would i get a job when i have ryan yeah's the best part-time job out there.
I get to sit at home and I ask him for money and he sends the check. Do you see what's happening here? That's a good point.
You're not helping her, you're enabling her. And while I'm with you, it's great to, let's respect, you know, honor our mother and father.
It doesn't mean we enable them and continue to let them live lives that are of misbehavior. So the truth is, I wish we could change people because I know you love your mom and it's a very honorable thing to want to do, but I would not fund her retirement and go, well, mom, don't worry about it.
We got you. We'll sacrifice our own financial future since you didn't prepare at all.
And if you're going to give her money, it's got to be a gift, which it has been so far, but there's no good future here. What if she lives to be 99 for the next 30 years? You're just funding her misbehavior.
Yeah, it's not good. And we got to look at the long-term future, not just how do we help her in the next year.
And so we're going to have to let her experience some pain so that she actually wants to make some changes while she still has her health. Is she healthy? Yeah, she's actually no medications, you know, great health.
You know, I think this is, you called us, if it were me, I'd have a sit down with mom and I'd do exactly what George just said.

I would say it to her and you've got to be very respectful, but say, mom, I realize because I love you so much, because of all you've done for me, I've been enabling you and I can't do this.

And I'm afraid I'm going to resent you.

And you are in a situation where financially you will become a massive burden for me. And that's not how I want you to end, and I don't want the next season of our life to be this.
I think this is a real honest but very respectful conversation to say, I don't think you want to be this to us, and I don't want this because I want the time that we have left with you to be about relationship and honor, not resentment and burden. And I think that's the conversation you've got to have.
She may not respond well, may not like it, but you've got to do this for you. Cause I'll tell you the person we haven't discussed on this call that I, that I'm thinking about the most.
And that's your wife. This thing gets really sour pretty quick between the two of you because you, by enabling your mom, put your wife in a really, really tough situation that she didn't ask for.
And I'm telling you, as a guy who's been married a long time, I'm telling you, you're not thinking about that. So I'm trying to be kind of that older bro right now and say, this thing is not only could create a wedge of resentment between you and your mom, even worse, a wedge of resentment between you and your wife.

And I hope this is a wake up call for you.

Have a respectful but very clear conversation, George, to where mom knows now there's a new reality and she's got to do something about it.

Has you talked to your wife about this? What does she think? Yeah, we've talked about it. You know, she definitely doesn't like it at all, and so that's why I'm trying to figure out.
That would be the only reason I need to say, okay, if you're not comfortable with this, we're not doing it. Yeah.
She's going to have to rely on the government for the rest of her life and make peace with her decisions. George, in 30 seconds, what would you say to him about the fact that mom's only got $4,000? She needs to get a job.
What is she doing on that retirement play? Let's say she's healthy. What would your advice be? She needs to work as long as she's physically able to create as much income as possible, save as much as she can of that income, get an emergency fund in place,

invest as much as she can.

Because compound interest,

you know, she could live a better life

than if she does nothing.

She's not going to have a wild retirement,

but we need to paint the picture of,

hey mom, here's what the next 10, 20 years looks like

if you continue down this path.

Another follow-up question.

What do you think about long-term care

given that she's healthy now?

Well, she can't afford it.

That's the problem.

Well, but if she works, she can. Yes? No? Maybe.
Yeah maybe i think it'll be pretty expensive for her she can look into it but it might be out of the out of the budget something that he may look at oof it might be hey mom be with god and the government medicare is gonna and medicaid's gonna have to take care of you wow all right good i don't know if it's in the it's in the cards all right gotta run quick. Quick break.
Be right back with more of your calls. This is The Ramsey Show.
Hey, you guys. Health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down.
And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer, and it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy. So if you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically-based alternative to health insurance, Christian Healthcare Ministries.
CHM is a health cost-sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of over $11 billion in medical bills since 1981. And CHM has also help them stay true to their values and avoid miles of red tape.
And CHM's support goes far beyond meeting financial needs. They'll also help meet spiritual needs.
Members become part of a family who will pray with them and for them when they experience a medical event. So listen, y'all, there's no better way to take care of healthcare costs.
CHM programs start as low as $98 a month. So learn more today and join at chministries.org slash budget.
That's chministries.org slash budget. Listen, I know a lot of you would rather watch paint dry in slow motion than file your taxes.
But thankfully, you don't have to dread filing when you've got Ramsey Smart Tax. It comes packed with everything

you need to file online before the big deadline. That means all major federal forms and deductions

are covered with no hidden fees. Plus, with Ramsey Smart Tax, you can save up to 70% compared to other

tax software out there. It's a no-brainer.
Just go to ramseysolutions.com slash smart tax and see

how simple tax filing can be. That's RamseySolutions.com slash SmartTax.
Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Happy New Year, America.
So excited you're with us. 888-825-5225 is the phone number to jump in.
You got a question about your budget. You got a question about your debt.
Not enough check left over at the end of the month.

Boy, oh boy, do you have the two guys you need today.

George is going to help you manage the money, and I'm going to help you make more money.

That's our goal.

So give us a shout, 888-825-5225.

Zach starts us off right now in Salt Lake City.

Zach, how can we help?

Hi. Yeah, so my wife and i have been kind of mulling over a decision that we're we've been trying to decide whether or not to move is kind of what we're looking at so i currently uh bring in probably about 130 is-ish between two different revenue streams.
And the salary from one of them sits at about $80K, and there's an opportunity, a couple opportunities I have, to bump that up to about $100K a year. The issue is we're still in baby step two.
We still have about $90K to pay down. And if we did make this move, uh, to this new job, it would require me to move.
Um, and we're just not sure if we should do that because we don't necessarily want to get out of the home that we already own. Um, and we know that even if we did sell it, we most likely would not have the ability to purchase a home wherever we moved to.
We'd probably either have to rent it out or just, you know, do something else. By the way, really mature.
Because I think the traditional response, the human response to a job offer with more money is to go, well, I feel like I've got to take it because I'm an idiot. I'm a moron.
I'd be crazy not to take a big bump like that. And I think you're probably feeling some of that and that's very natural.
But for you to say, well, I'm not sure we want to make that move. I think that's mature.
I only have one other question on this one that I think would make it fairly obvious to me. If you were to take the new job, and let's put the extra bump in salary aside, would that put you on the ladder that you eventually want to be at the top of? In other words, does it fast forward your ultimate professional goals? Yeah, it moves me in the right direction for sure.
Uh, it's, I work in IT, so, and this would bump me more into like a network engineer versus just like network admin. So kind of a move in the right direction for me as far as career path.
Well, then I would consider that more than I would, man, we really like our current house. Now that's me.
And I think George, you can make the case and I'm bringing you in. You could make the case.
And I said it was mature to go, I'm not sure we want to leave this community. I'm not sure we want to leave this house.
I think that's also, George, equally something to consider. Just the kin answer, I would always lean towards, I want to move up the ladder.
If I've got a good opportunity and I got to give something up, you know, John Maxwell, my former boss, legendary leadership guru, said you got to give up to go up. And so the question is, Zach, what are you willing to give up to go up? The Ken answer, and I'm going to cede to you, George, my answer is I'm going to give up the comfortable home, the zip code, the friends and family.
Yeah, that was my question is how great is your life in Salt Lake and what would it be like where you're going to move to? Would you be miserable in this new area? Is cost of living any different? Family, you know, as you weigh those pieces, because here's the thing, like there's going to be a nice, you're going to find your new dream home wherever you move to eventually. It may be a year from now when you rent for a year and you go, wow, that was a fun adventure.
So I don't want to make a long-term decision just based on, well, I like the home we're in. So where would you be moving? Right.
We have a couple options because it would be for government contract work. So I could either go north about an hour and a half from where we were at,

and I'm not going to, you know, drive two hours each way.

That just doesn't make sense to me.

No, so you'd be moving there.

Another option would be moving there.

Or there are some options and opportunities with the same employer

to go out to, like like the Kentucky, like Southern Indiana

area. What does your wife think about this? She's on board for, for moving.
She's been

wanting to get out of our town home for a while now. Well, you buried the lead, man.
Happy wife,

happy life. You said, I love my home.
Your wife says, I hate this home.

Well, we both wanted to get out. It's just the financial.
So you don't like this home. You said, I like the home we're in.
You like the price point of the house you're in. There we go.
But you got George here. George is Mr.
Budget guy. All right.
So by the way, how does this not make sense to make more money? We're talking about a, about a $20,000 bump in your, in your main salary. You still got the opportunity to make extra money on the side as well, like you are now, correct? Yes.
George, help them out. And if you're making more money and moving to a lower cost of living area, you're going to get more house.
So you could get a better house for the same price for the one you're living in. You're scared of the unknown.
If you move to Kentucky, for example.

You're scared of the unknown.

Right.

Just go to Indiana or Kentucky and do a weekend visit.

Yes.

And go look at housing.

Spend a couple hours tonight on one of those real estate sites.

I love these things.

You can type in literally the area, a zip code, and it'll show everything.

Ken just found out about these apps.

It's amazing.

There's this website. You type in a zip code, it'll show you homes.
these apps it's amazing there's this website you type in a zip code it'll show you home that's not what i always say i was trying not to endorse anybody no i appreciate that i've got my personal favorite you saw me pull the plane up a little bit there starts with an r yeah i like it it's good information though my point is in the comfort of your home tonight by the fire start you guys could start looking at real houses and real prices in these areas where you could go work. This is the thing.
You're scared to death of the unknown, and the answer to that is, go get some answers. Are they covering any relocation expenses? This particular employer wouldn't, and I guess that leads me to a follow-up question.
Should we keep the place we currently have in rented out? No. We thought about that.
Don't do that. Just sell it.
No, you don't want to be a long-distance landlord. That's our position across the board.
Okay. It always sounds like a good idea in theory until you have to deal with the reality of it.
And I love Dave's philosophy on this. He goes, if you lived in Kentucky, would you go searching for a rental property for a townhome in Salt Lake City? The answer is no.
So therefore, let's get rid of it. We're holding on to it for the wrong reasons.
And you need that money to then roll into your next house. Where did it scared Zach about the new house payment go? Now he's a real estate guru.
Yeah, now you're a real estate baron. What's going on? You're all over the place.
Yeah, no, I get it. We've just been mulling us over for a while.
Trust me, we're having a good time. If you take the offer and you're going to make the move and they're not covering any moving expenses, then we'll pause the baby steps, stack up cash until we make the move and we settle in.
Then we'll hit play again. And making, at that point, $150K, you're going to knock out your debt faster and you'll likely have a home eventually.
Maybe you rent for a little while and just put that money from the profits and savings and you'll get a home a year from now once you've settled in, figure out the neighborhood, schools, all that i gotta tell you george and i are in full agreement the two judges here on the panel move or not move move or stay we say move uh this is a no-brainer i think this is what your heart wants am i right yeah we we want to get out we want to home for our kids to be able to bro this is a no-brainer the studio audience is just waiting for you to make this decision they're going to be throwing rocks at the glass rocks at the glass if you keep asking questions about this this is a no-brainer uh you know what you've done a very good job of thinking through everything but you're overthinking now you know do it you guys have been so if you get off the phone and say hey babe we're moving i'm taking the offer. Would she be stoked? Okay.
Do it. You guys have been so smart.
If you get off the phone and say, hey, babe, we're moving.

I'm taking the offer.

Would she be stoked?

Yeah, I think she'd be happy with it.

We'd be both very happy with it.

It's a little ways away from family, which, you know, gives her some pause.

That's her biggest thing.

Mine was the money part, but she'd be totally on board.

She wants the news. Is she near you right now? Are you guys in the same house or building, or are you separate? No, she's at home.
I'm actually at work right now. All right, my friend.
Listen, I'm putting you on hold. Zach's on the clock.
Zach, you're on the clock. Call her right now and say, hey, listen, I just talked to these two nitwits and they think

we should move. And she's going to be thrilled.
It's going to be okay. That's why they make planes to fly and see family.
All right. Don't move.
Good work there, George. You feel good about yourself? Yeah.
I think I get to be wit. Nit and wit.
I like that. That's good.
All right. Quick break.
We'll be right back with more of your calls. This is The Ramsey Show.
Hey, guys, good news.

Presale is on now for my new book, Build a Business You Love. If you're a business owner, you know running a business is hard.
That's why I wrote this book, to share what we learned over the last 30 years so business owners can grow your business faster with fewer mistakes. Pre-order your copy today, and you'll get access to over $350 in bonus items

only at RamseySolutions.com slash store. RamseySolutions.com slash store.
Pre-order today. welcome back to the ramsey show where we help you win with your money win in your work and win with your relationships 888-825-5225 is the phone number alongside george camel i'm ken coleman excited to have you with us dan starts starts us off in Tampa, Florida.
Dan, how can we help?

Gentlemen, good afternoon. How are y'all? Good afternoon, sir.
How can we help? I've got a quick question. So I have been setting aside, budgeting a couple dollars every month the last few years here towards an engagement ring.
I will not likely be spending that money anytime soon.

And so I was wondering. the last few years here towards an engagement ring.
I will not likely be spending that money anytime soon.

And so I was wondering if there's a better option.

I mean, I'm sure there is,

but I was wondering what your thoughts are on a better option or how to use this cash rather than just have it sitting in a drawer

and losing value on rising rates and everything.

So there's no one in mind. You were just saving up? I'm single as a Pringle.
Wow. You're really looking ahead.
Hold on a second. Did you say single as a Pringle, as in like a chip? I did.
I've got to tell you, I've never heard that one before. Very exciting.
I apologize. My ADHD was flaring.
Go ahead, George. It doesn't take much to excite Ken these days.
Well, I like it. I've never heard that before.
That's a good line. But it makes sense.
I'm getting it. Thank you.
Thank you. Okay.
So you're saving this money for a future lady in your life. It doesn't even exist.
That is the plan plan. She exists in prayer and thought and that's about it right now.
Are there other things that you should be saving for? Uh, I'm sure there are. Do you have any debt? Um, kind of.
I have a. Dan.
So I. I had a sense that it just didn't didn't add up

what do you have? What is sort of? What does that mean? Well, I have about $41,000 in vehicle debt. And I say kind of because it's technically under my...
I have a full-time job, but I also have a side business cleaning gum from public roadways and sidewalks and stadiums and all that jazz. And so the vehicle is technically under the business, but it is...
Dan, you signed the papers, not the imaginary business guy. How big of a car do you need to get gum off the road? It's a truck just to haul around the equipment.
What's the truck worth? The truck is worth, I checked this morning, $58,000. And what size truck is this? It's a three-quarter ton, so around $2,500.
And you need something that big to haul around the gum-getter-upper equipment? can downsize you see where we're going here all right george walking through getting rid of this monster he doesn't need this giant fifty thousand dollar truck no i would sell a side business that scoops gum up you're gonna make what 16 grand in profit that you could then use to pay cash for a used truck? I could, yep. That's what I'd be doing.
Ding, ding,

ding.

Listen,

if I'd be

doing this what, $16,000 in profit that you could then use to pay cash for a used truck? I could, yep. That's what I'd be doing.
Ding, ding, ding. Listen, if we're on a first date and you're telling me about your $50,000 gum truck, that's a red flag for me.
You know what I mean? I totally understand. And the reason I went with the, you know, I bought that vehicle as opposed to something used is just when I go to demos and meetings, I wanted a vehicle that was clean and looked nice.
Nobody cares. When you're like being presentable type of thing.
Nobody cares. When I'm hiring gum guy, I'm not going, he better show up with a nice dually on that thing.
I'm hiring the one guy on the planet who's going to get the gum off the street. They don't care what your truck looks like.
In fact, they kind of expect you to drive. In fact, if I'm hiring a guy today to come get gum off the street, I kind of want to see the guy that's got a car with two-tone paint on it, the bumper's beat up.
I go, now that's a guy who can get the gum up. Then I go, he's not charging me for his truck payment as part of this.
Yeah. I see a guy with a beat-up truck ago.

He's going to charge a fair price.

I see a guy with a $50,000 truck ago.

I'm getting taken to the cleaners.

Would you consider, Dan, getting this gum off the public streets?

It's a dirty job.

Have you heard of this concept?

My friend Mike Rose got a very popular show called Dirty Jobs.

I think I'm familiar with it, but I don't know much about it.

But would you consider what you do a pretty dirty job? It's not a fun job. You can be, yeah.
All right, my point is you don't need a fancy truck. We're trying to drive this home.
So get rid of that. What's the truck payment on that? Yeah, y'all are going to love this.
About $700 a month. There's your ring cost when we get the lovely lady interested.
So sell the truck. Use the proceeds to buy a used truck.
You can use some of your savings if you need a $17,000 truck, if you really need it. And then whatever money's left over becomes your emergency fund, and let's start stacking money on top of that to get to three to six months of expenses.
Then we can start investing, and any money beyond that, we can begin saving up for a ring in a separate account. But truthfully, I wouldn't even start saving until I meet this person.
Yeah, I agree. Because you're making enough money to where you can cash flow a nice ring.
That's what we're getting at. Yeah, clearing that $700 payment, it's not going to take you long to save up another 10 grand for a ring.
Yeah. You got it, Dan?

We're talking a year and a half at that point.

You probably should be dating this person for a little while before making that kind

of commitment.

Drop the truck.

You don't need a fancy schmancy truck.

All right.

Get rid of the truck.

Keep scooping the gum.

Retained earnings.

More profits.

Start listening to the Entree Leadership Podcast.

All right.

He's got himself in a sticky situation, Ken.

Oh, there he is, folks.

There's George.

I don't know. gum, retained earnings, more profits, start listening to the Entree Leadership Podcast.
All right. He's got himself in a sticky situation, Ken.
Oh, there he is, folks. There's George.
I thought it was going to be all rainbows and gumdrops. I'm supposed to do the dad jokes, but you're dad now, so welcome.
Thank you. By the way, the Ramsey Network app is the only place to get the full episode of the Ramsey show.
So for instance, this is our second hour. If you want to get the third hour, the only place you can get it is the Ramsey Network app.
You can download it for free using the link of the show notes or by searching the Ramsey Network in your app store. Now, if you're on radio, stay tuned.
We still got a lot of show coming to you. And to that end, how about a question from the Ramsey Network app? What do you say, George? I like it.
This is from Scott. He asks, my wife had significant student loan debt with multiple loans.
We paid off most of them. The last one is a mortgage against her parents' house.
It's about $29,000. They want to move soon, and we need the loan in our name.
Do we take out a personal loan, refinance our house, get a HELOC, or something different? What say you, George? Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
How about those options? Mortgage against her parents' house, $29,000. They want to move.
We need to loan an R name. Because her last student loan is a mortgage against the parents' house.
Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I would refinance.
That's probably your best option for the best rates and terms on that thing is just to refinance it. Because the HELOC will have a variable rate in a lot of cases, and it's going to be higher than what you'd get on a traditional mortgage rate.
And the amount shouldn't be a problem to get that amount. Small amount when it comes to student loans.
Exactly. And personal loan, again, not going to have quite the terms of a mortgage.
So I'd contact our good friends at Churchill Mortgage and get a refinance done on this. And it looks like they've paid off a good amount.
We don't know the amount of money they've paid off. So it looks like they've got the discipline to do this and that gets them free and clear of the parents, which is, again, always messy.
You're always preaching about this kind of stuff where family members come to the table. They want to help.
So they go, hey, well, you can do this, put it on our blah, blah, blah. And then you get in a situation like this.
This one doesn't seem like it's sticky. I hate what the gum pun is still going.
But nonetheless.

As soon as they want to move, now you're in pickle.

That's right.

That's right.

So this is why we preach just stay out of that stuff altogether.

Yeah.

Wow.

You give me a lot to chew on today, Ken.

So make it stop.

A lot of good stuff this hour.

You can do this.

You have the ability to keep doing this.

This is all my brain wants to think about.

But instead, we have to work. We have to be professionals.
Well, yeah, I'm trying to think right now, like this whole situation, like with this young man got the truck, right? And he's in the gum business. You know, I need to Google this business.
Yeah. Yeah.
Scooping up the gum off. And I'll bet you he's getting paid by municipalities.
It sounds like these are public roads, things like that. So I was going to come back to this.
I wanted to get to the network app question. But coming back to the situation, this is a really good potential business for this guy.
Because if he does a really good job, then, you know, you start getting. He's the go-to gum guy.
All over the state or wherever. And it's pretty easy money because not everybody's lining up to do that.
But he doesn't need the fancy truck. Is it relegated to just gum? That's the question.
Is it any sticky substance on the road? I got to believe if you can get gum up, you can get gunk up. Maybe it's gum and gunk.
I don't know, but he doesn't need, I'm trying to come up with an analogy that you don't want to blow up in your face. Have you seen that, that business college hunks hauling junk? He could be like college hunk getting rid of gunk.
I don't like where you're taking this.

And with that, I impressed my case.

We did gum and gunk and then you had to bring in College Hunks.

Nobody knows why. It's a business.
Everyone knows

the business. You know this business?

There's one lady in the lobby

who's apparently paying attention

to the College Hunks. Nobody else in the lobby

even knows what we're talking about. I'll fill Ken in on this break.

Alright, we'll look it up. Only on your computer, though.

Alright. Good hour, George.

Thank you next time.