Financial Peace Starts With Clear Boundaries

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships thank you for joining us America I'm Dave Ram'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Jade Walshaw, best-selling author. Ramsey Personality is my co-host today, so we're going to take your calls.
The phone number is 888-825-5225. Leona starts off this hour in Fairbanks, Alaska.
Hi, Leona. How are you? Hey, Dave.

I'm great. How are you doing? Better than I deserve.
What's up? Okay, so I'm calling because I am pretty newly married. Not my first rodeo.
But one of the things I did, I made a mistake of, is not doing my financial background check on my new spouse. And so October, we got married in May.
In October, I realized that we are close to a million dollars in debt. Wait a minute, slow down.
Wait a minute, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. I got lost in this this already i want to make sure i'm with you so you're how old i am 45 okay and you've been married before i have you said not first rodeo okay so you met a guy and you married him and you said it was a mistake to not do a background check no a financial check didn't have conversations about money is what you're saying.
I didn't check to see what kind of debt ratio. Did you ask him? No.
Okay, so you just kind of walked in blindly. He thought you didn't care.
Turns out you cared. Okay.
Yeah. All right, I got it.
And so you've've been married for how long for about nine months okay and then you woke up one morning and decided to ask or he decided to tell you what happened um I wanted to quit my job and so in that I wanted I asked him if if that was possible we went back and forth I said I really need see the budget, assuming he kept one, and I found out there that he didn't keep a budget. But when I started pulling things together, finding about 17 credit cards, I realized there's no way, and he was heavily reliant on my income as well.
How was he making it before you were married? As a bachelor, he was just a heavy spender. If he couldn't make it without your salary now, how was he making it without your salary before you were married? He bought a $500,000 house.
Since you were married? My name is not on the title. Since you got married.

When did he buy the $500,000 house? August it closed. So we were married.
So you're married. You bought a house.
Okay. You were aware you were buying a house.
I was. So $500,000 is owed on the house.
And you said there's a million dollars. What's the other $500,000?

There's another house that he had.

It's a $300,000 home.

We have it as a rental right now.

What's owed on it?

$330,000.

Okay.

Did you not know about the rental?

No, I did.

You just didn't think about it.

All right, so $830,000.

Yeah, it was just moved out. $830,000..
And now what's the other $200,000 in debt? He has a HELOC loan and some medical debt and then about almost $200,000 in credit card. Okay, and so what's your question? Um, I mean, how do I not murder him? It's not his fault.
It's yours. You didn't ask.
I know. Well, he doesn't get murdered.
You might, but he doesn't. Right.
I mean, you walked around acting like nothing's happening, and he just assumed it was all okay. He living his life like a you know just happy as he can be happy as a little old clam and then you came along wanted to quit your job and he couldn't do it so you're the one that didn't do anything i mean he's got a mess there's no question about that we don't need to murder him does he want to clean this up um so far he's been doing everything we have a financial peace university coach right now who's helping us untangle a lot of things and great so both houses are for sale no well they need to be okay y'all are broke people yeah because i'm guessing there's a little bit of equity in these houses you can use to clean up this stupid butt credit card mess.
This guy spends like he's in Congress. Hey, by the way, what do you guys earn? What's the income between the two of you? $200,000.
Okay. You can dig through it pretty quick then.
You might even get to keep the house you're living in, but the rental needs to go immediately. Yeah.
And that's where the HELOC's laying too, right? I think the HELOC is on a new house, but both my, our coach and I are both confused about that. It's just, it's just messy.
Okay. And so number one, the two of you, next time you meet with the coach, you have to raise your right hand and swear before the judge.
I promise to never do anything with money ever again without my spouse knowing it. Both of you.
Yeah. Both of you.
You do not have the right to act surprised after this point, up to this point, because you walked into it begging for a surprise. Mm-hmm.
But now, from today on, he doesn't make any moves anymore because he's really not good with money. Mm-hmm.
We really he really sucks at this and honestly you're lucky that he agreed to go through financial peace and yeah has the wherewithal to want to change it yeah you got lucky there yeah i think you guys get on a beans and rice budget you sell the rental follow what the coach is telling you you may have to sell the big house you may not how much you owe on your stupid cars um so that's messy his his wife passed and there are two vehicle there's one vehicle in her name and a motor home in her name and so was the dead in her name yes okay but yes but he kept the rest of the estate too right right? Yeah, so it's not messy.

Both of those need to get sold yesterday.

Did he not probate a will or probate the estate?

No, he didn't. He just actually told the bank like two weeks ago that she passed away two years ago.

He just what?

He just now told the bank that she passed away.

Yeah, so the bank is pretty upset right now.

So he's had the stuff in possession for two years. Okay, so this level of denial and deception that he has lived his whole life in has to change or your marriage is not going to work.
and this level of not bothering to ask

and walking around with your head stuck in the clouds the way you do it, that has to change or your marriage is not going to work. So the two of you have to commit to a clean, clear way of living where we're not deceiving each other or anyone else.
All right. And you can get these two cars sold.
And do you have any debt on the two cars you guys are driving? Well, the HELOC somehow has his truck wrapped into it. No, it doesn't.
It just used the HELOC to buy the truck. That's all.
Okay. But so how expensive is his truck? I think it was like $18,000 that he paid.
He told me he paid off but that's not too bad i'm not sure i believe it though all right so yeah you guys just got to dig in clean all the you know get all the tangles out of the hair get everything straight and then decide what you're gonna cut how much of a hair how much hair you're gonna have left after you finish this haircut and then you got to be clean with each other and everybody else quit hiding stuff both of you wow what a mess girl this is the ramsey show what does the future hold for business ask nine experts and you'll get 10 different answers economic growth or a recession business taxes will go up or down ai will help us work or it will replace us all. But there's no such thing as a crystal ball.
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Jade Washaw, Ramsey Personalities, my co-host today. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host.
Joni's with us in Jackson, New Hampshire. Hi, Joni.
How are you?

Well, as you say, it's better than I deserve.

Much better.

Good.

How can we help today?

Well, and my dad used to say, advice is worth what you pay for it.

So that was fun to start the show off with that.

Okay. So my daughter's two 40-ish years old daughters, and I co-own a cabin that's across the road from my house

where I've lived at this house for 40 years.

And we bought the cabin five years ago.

We're all three on the deed.

And as you said a few weeks ago,

never go into business with anyone,

one reason being that they will have different interests from you.

And that's what we're facing.

I'd like to move from my home to the cabin, which needs some serious work to make it livable.

And my daughters, one of them wants to just do as little as possible and make it into a seasonal rental. And the other one wants that also, but she doesn't want me to have a home there because she can deny it because we all have to agree since we're co-owners.
We all have to agree on work done there and about 20 years ago she was doing a bunch of bad stuff and i had told her if you keep this up you're going to have to leave so i had to kick her out of the house and she wants to punish me for that so the way you the way you handled that she you have a daughter that wants to punish you and you decide to buy a cabin with her it wasn't um it wasn't i bought the cabin five years ago 20 years ago you kicked her out well five years ago when the cabin came up for sale um the owner wanted to sell it to my daughters.

And so they, on paper, bought it.

I paid $200,000 for it.

So I paid for the taxes and the purchase price

and all of the repairs that we have done.

So they put no money in it?

Do they have any money in?

Excuse me?

They put no money in?

Right.

Oh, gosh.

And I bought my house 40 years ago.

I think... Do they have any money in? Excuse me? They put no money in? Right.
Oh, gosh. And I bought my house 40 years ago for $29,000.
And do you guys have any kind of written agreement on this at all? We have one agreement that they came up with that says we all have to agree on any work that's done. Did you sign that? Yes.
Why? I did you, I don't know, I don't know why you did any of this. If you had $200,000, buy the cabin, don't buy the cabin.
Why did you put them on here knowing that this is going to be, that this one daughter is going to be a problem from day one? I didn't, I didn't know that. And the seller would not sell it to me alone.

She wanted to sell it to my daughters.

Why?

So I had no, we either wouldn't get the cabin, or the girls would both be on the deed.

What was initially the use of the cabin?

When you first bought it, did you buy it because you said, you know what, I'm going to move in here, and everybody knew that, or was the initial purpose of the cabin to rent it out to someone else?

It was me moving up there was an option um we didn't talk about any plans i started doing little bits here and there having a cabin chinked making sure the roof was good okay john joni let me ask you this how old are you i bought it to i bought it to protect the value of my house so that we're surrounded by National Forest. Joanie.
And I bought my house for $29,000. Joanie.
Now it's worth a million. Joanie, how old are you? Seventy.
Seventy. Okay.
You have made a mess. That's right.
This is a mess. Okay.
And you're really left with only a couple of options. One is to convince your daughters to deed the property over to you, given that they put no money in it to start with, and they have no rights to this morally or ethically.
Okay. This is an absurd deal.
You should not have done this deal. It was a dumb deal.
It was a bad deal. You set yourself up to get punched in the nose.
Now you're getting punched in the nose. So now the only thing you can do with this is you can convince them to deed it over to you, or you can hire an attorney and sue them and force the sale of the cabin and show the judge that they put zero dollars into this and that at least you get your 200,000 back before there's anything split at the sale.
Now you get to decide, are you going to be able to convince them that you guys are all stupid? What you've done here is all stupid. You're not stupid, but what you've done is ridiculous.
It's a horrible plan. And your daughters are horrible that they took a third of this knowing that they didn't get along with their 70 year old mother and she paid a hundred percent of it.
That's kind of like being a thief. Okay.
That's kind of what that's like.

So I don't really like your daughter as much.

And this is not going to be easy.

And so I don't know that you're going to be able to convince these two dweebs to turn

the thing over to you.

And I'm afraid you're going to be faced with a judge to do it.

Or you've just gotten screwed out of 200,000 because you've lost control of this because

you've got a two to one vote and the deed doesn't have any restrictions on it whatsoever. You've got three people and they have two of the votes.
But a judge can untangle this and a judge can force the sale of the cabin and give you $200,000 at the sale. One other option on the persuasion side you could do is you can offer the dweeb some money to go away.
I'll give you $25,000 a piece if you've got it or whatever to sign the deed over to me, which is immoral, thievery, blackmail, whatever you want to call it, but it's going to be cheaper than court. She's not going to like them much after that, though.

Well, I don't like them, so it's easy to not like them.

Yeah.

I mean, they're not likable.

That's right.

Who does this to their parent?

Oh, I don't know.

It's weird.

You threw me out of the house 20 years ago.

So then I'm going to get back and choose.

I'm going to get you to pay full price for a cabin that I own one third of,

and then I'm not going to let you do anything.

Good God.

This is terrible. How a four-year-old is this needs counseling unbelievable so yeah some people's children but the um yeah guys you cannot enter into these things wide-eyed open and expect you know a crocodile to do anything but bite your leg off crocodiles it's what they do I just can't understand that i even even if they liked each other right it's a dumb be ever the purpose of going into something like it makes no sense if she was going to move into it anyway just buy the house for herself well the guy wouldn't sell it to her which is weird yeah that's weird too there's a lot of weird here but yeah uh johnny i'm sorry i wish i had a magic wand to make your pain go away but your pain is not a cabin your pain is your daughter's and that's what you're gonna have to deal with one way or another probably the cheapest way to do this is just buy the dweebs out and get them to sign it over just you know it's a dweeb fee it's a stupid tax fee and i do something stupid that costs me money joanie i call tax.
You're probably going to pay some stupid tax here. You are going to pay some stupid tax.
And they better not ask for a third. You're going to pay a lawyer.
Well, they'll ask for it. You know these dweebs will.
You're going to either pay a lawyer, you're going to pay the dweebs, or you're going to lose your $200,000. These are your three-way.
But you're going to lose money. You're going to lose money.
Something's going on here. I'm paying a lawyer.
If it's me, I'm paying a lawyer. I don't want to fool with these girls anymore.
Wow. It's your kids.
They're dweebs. To quote a well-known philosopher.
Oh, man. Oh, that's terrible.
I feel bad, but. You know, I was doing a thing with some wealthy people the other day, and they were all worried.
They were saying, you know, how do I raise my children when we have wealth and the wealth doesn't ruin them? And I told them, I said, the wealth won't ruin them. It's just going to expose if you did.
If you ruined them, the wealth is just going to give you the exposure to that. It's going to magnify because whatever goes on that's in a family is magnified when it gets wealth.
In other words, the crazy gets super crazy. Right.
But I mean, this is all tied to $200,000 worth of thievery here. Joni, I am so sorry.
Your heart must be broken. Mine's broken for you.
I'm angry for you. I just can't do anything about it, except rail about it.
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Make sure to check it out, you guys. Jade Warshaw, Ramsey personality is my co-host open phones at 8 eight eight two five five two two five darlie is with us in uh fredericksburg virginia hey darlie how are you is it dart darlia darlia i said i can't i'll get it right eventually it is darlia correct yes okay how can we help hi um thank you for taking my call Sure.
So my in-laws loaned us $40,000 last year at 4.5% interest rate for five years. Oh, my gosh.
So we could buy a house on a loan assumption. Oh, Lord.
And that loan assumption came at a rate of 3.125%, so we couldn't let that pass by. Instead of going to the bank to get $40,000, we loaned it from that while they offered to loan it to us.
We took them up on that offer. I had a baby in December, and so now I'm staying at home, but before I, I, I had the baby and I'm staying home now, we got that loan down to $22,401.
Um, because we're kind of following the baby steps while we're trying to, um, so I'm, we're just, so now I'm, I'm not working. Um, my husband is a little iffy about going under $10,000

because currently we have $25,000 in savings.

And I'm kind of suggesting, oh, should we just wipe out the loan with them?

What does he make?

Save up.

He makes $76,000 a year.

Are you living on a written budget with the EveryDollar app?

Thank you. makes $76,000 a year.
Are y'all living on a written budget with the EveryDollar app? Spreadsheet and all. Okay.
Cool. So very much in control of EveryDollar? Very much.
We know where every single penny goes. Okay.
So you said you're trying to follow the baby steps right so yeah well wait a minute my husband i mean he he wants he's just nervous about going under ten thousand dollars yeah but if any emergency comes yeah it's his parents nervous about it he probably feels comfortable because it's his parents it doesn't matter it doesn't matter people it doesn't matter you're feeling it and you're feeling it for good reason. For two reasons.
A, it's debt and your body's going to feel debt. And then two, it's debt that you owe to in-laws.
Like, let's not make this Thanksgiving dinner tastes different when you eat with your master and the borrower is slave to the lender. That's right.
Yeah. Let's not make a complex situation more complex by adding debt to it.
Right. So, yeah, if you guys have agreed this is the financial plan that we're following, then I'd hold him to that.
And I'd say, listen, if we say we're following the baby steps, we need to pay off this debt and then rebuild our savings. That's what the steps say.
That's what the plan is. We said we are following that.
And I don't feel comfortable with this debt as your wife. I don't feel comfortable owing your parents.
And if for no other reason, this should matter because of that. Right? Yeah, I've told him that.
And he definitely understands. They're amazing people.
We're not questioning their character. Yeah.
You don't need to tell me three times they're amazing people. This was a stupid butt idea, and y'all need to clean it up.
was dumb you shouldn't have done it but you did it and now you have the opportunity to clean it up don't do it again you call so many people dumb that now i'm appreciating that i've gotten to that level you're part of the club i didn't say i did not say you are dumb i said the idea and what you did was dumb. There's a difference.

Yeah.

I am not dumb and I have done some dumb butt things in my life.

Quote, dumb butt decision.

That's what it is.

I love it.

I have done it.

I have done it.

So you guys clean this up.

Get it out of your life.

You can feel it and you can.

This is not an indictment of saying your parents are bad.

Our parent laws are bad people.

They're wonderful people.

They were trying to be helpful. They were helpful in a bad way, but they were helpful.
They're trying to be sweet. They're trying to get you what you want in life.
And they're not being mean. They're not calling you every week and looking at your budget and judging you.
They're not control freaks. You didn't bring up any relationship issues.
These are not bad people. That is not what the point is.
The point is you have $22 thousand dollars in debt and you have twenty eight thousand dollars or twenty six thousand or whatever it is in your account write a check today and pay it off that's the point yeah yeah if it was on a credit card it'd be the exact same thing that we'd say that was a stupid butt decision you shouldn't have done that now clean it up it's like you got the money there write a check it's just it it just check. It makes the more drama of the conversation because it's the in-laws.
And think about it like this. Your life has changed since you took that loan.
Now you're staying home with a child. That's an income that's gone.
You have to ask yourself, okay, if we keep this debt around, what happens if there's another major life change? What if your husband loses his job? What if he's laid off? So there's a lot of variables here that a lot of times we don't let our brain think about because it's not pleasant. But when you carry debt, you are holding risk.
I don't care who it's to because Dave talked about Thanksgiving dinner tasting different. It would taste a lot worse.
And by the way, we're not going to be at the two or three thousand dollar level in this, but for about 10 minutes, this account,

because you're going to immediately start adding money to it, correct?

Oh, yeah, right, yeah.

So how much would you add to it a month?

How much would you add to it a month without having these payments?

About $700, yeah, about $700 a month.

Okay.

And he's expecting a bonus soon and hopefully a promotion soon.

Yeah, and a lot of that will go too. So you're going to be, like by September, you're going to be right back up where you need to be, right? Well, we're going to be down to like $3,000 after we pay it.
And you've got a bonus, and you've got $700 a month. And is $700 a month if you don't have this payment or currently $700 a month? If we don't have the payment, $700 a month.
All right. Yeah.
And it does freak them out because we were following the baby steps when I was working. And when I found out I was pregnant, we were essentially just dumping money to this loan to them.
And it freaked them out. They were like, what are you doing? I'm not concerned about them freaking out.
That's their problem. If they didn't want you to repay it, they should have made it a gift.
They shouldn't freak out. They ask you to pay them back.
You're paying them back.

Stop with the drama. Just write them a check, pay them back, be done with it.
And please don't do this again. Terrible.
It's just, I'm telling you guys, there's the, I, uh, in the 30 something years I've been doing this, some of the saddest stories are the ruined relationships because If somebody did something like loan their kid 25 or 30 or 50 000 to buy a house and then something goes sideways something gets out of hand and all of a sudden everybody's like torqued up and twisted up and formerly nice sweet people aren't for some reason and i just it's bad y'all you're asking it's like if borrowing money on a credit card to do this is stupid, just make it stupid times two to do it with your in-laws. All right.
Cause you're just, and again, I'm not calling you stupid. I'm saying what you did was stupid.
And cause I don't call people stupid except people in the financial world that tell you to do stupid things. But the people that we're trying to help, I'm not going to – our job to help you heal is to tell you the truth.
You don't want the doctor to go, you know, I think this little bit of cancer is going to be okay. Why don't we just leave it there? Right.
You want them to say, no. Get it out.
Get it stupid. Try sunscreen, boy.
You know, I mean, seriously, right? And golly. So you want people to tell you the truth if they're going to be healers and we're not going to hold back we're going to tell you exactly what it is because we got a lot of people to help and we love you and we want you to win and that includes darlia in fredericksburg fence virginia but dave there's so many people who they are sitting on savings while they've got debt sitting over there in the corner.
And the thought is, I don't like the risk of not having savings, but they don't entertain the other side of the equation, which is you must not care that much about risk because you've got debt sitting over here. Because you've already offset it.
You know, your balance sheet still represents a broke person. That's right.
The math has to math. You know, I don't want to, I don't want to be down less than $10,000.
Well, try going into debt and using up all your money then. Right.
You know, that's a good way to solve that. And by the way, you can pass up any housing deal.
It's too good to pass up. No, it's not.
Not if you can't afford it. No, it's not.
You can pass up a deal on that Bentley too because you can't afford it. Help you with that.
That Louis Vuitton, that $83,000 purse, you can pass that one up. You can pass it up if you can't afford it.
It's too good a deal. No, you can pass it up.
It's possible. I see people do it all the time.
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Open phones at 888-825-5225. Jeannie's with us in New Jersey.

Hi, Jeannie.

How are you?

Hi, Dave and Jade.

How are you?

Better than we deserve.

What's up?

I just need a little bit of encouragement and some clarification on something I heard you say a couple of days ago or weeks ago.

I can't remember.

I am, baby step three, I am struggling with getting rid of that last credit card because I want to buy a house next year and I do want to do the manual underwriting.

But you mentioned something about, um, you're like having a credit card is more, even if

you're not using it, it's more damaging than not having it.

I want my score to be indeterminable, but can that happen if I have a credit card still open on it? No, it cannot. Just tell me to cut it up.
Cut it up. You cannot be indeterminable while you have open credit accounts.
Anything? Even if there's zero balances, anything. Everything has to be completely closed and zero balance.
Okay. As long as it's open, it's still reporting, even if it's reporting a zero balance.
Okay. I'm already in touch with Churchill, so we're going through stuff, but I couldn't understand how you explained it before the other day, and I just wanted some...
The damage is that what you end up with when you have one credit card open and a zero balance and no other credit accounts of any kind you're going to end up with a low credit score because you have almost no credit that's what it amounts to even though it's not bad it's just you don't have any you'd be like a 20 year old or something that just got their first card and the only thing they have in their whole life they're not going to have a high credit score with one credit card you know and that's

that's back that's back where you are and that's what you're setting up so because the algorithm

is based on how you interact the algorithm that creates the credit score is based on how you

interact with credit it's not based on anything else and so if you have zero if you have zero

interaction with credit then that's when you have an indeterminable a zero credit score

Thank you. with credit.
It's not based on anything else. And so if you have zero interaction with credit, then that's when you have an indeterminable zero credit score.
Jeannie, you said you're nervous. Are you nervous because you're unsure of your credit score dropping to zero when you cut this up? Are you nervous because now you won't have this credit card in your life? Where's your nerves coming from specifically? I think the nerves are coming from just having that cushion or thinking I have a cushion.
And I don't want to think that, but I'm struggling with myself. It's just a battle.
It is a battle. Look, I'm going to validate that because the credit card companies, that's what they tell us.
They tell us, you can't exist without us. You need us to prop up your life.
You can't spend without us. They've been telling us this for decades.
Don leave home without it don't leave home without it and i'm 53 so i just started this in in january i'm just like you know i've been that stuff has been drilled in me a long time and you're single trying yes and so you're you feel vulnerable you feel a little bit vulnerable for that reason yeah and um yeah that that's very normal but what that tells us is, and I went through this spiritually myself some 30 years ago, it tells me what I'm counting on. What is, in a sense, not a true spiritual sense, but in a sense, what is my God? What is my provision? Oh my gosh.
Okay, I'm going it y'all it's so good but i mean it tell that's what i had to cope with i went who's providing for me i don't like the way you put that i know but i i that's what i had to have here in my head and it wasn't like a golden calf worshiper i'm not saying that that's not what you're doing but the thing is this i i figured out i really can't count on them to make my life good. I can count on me and my hard work and my diligence and discipline and wisdom, and I can count on God providing for me, my heavenly father who's crazy about me.
I can count on those two things, but I 100% can't count on Wells Fargo. Look.
Exactly. That's a word.
That's it. And that's, you know, who is my provider? And that's what they've done.
Yeah. They've gotten their tentacles around, their claws around that portion of our heart.
Yeah. That says, don't leave home without it.
Don't leave home. And it turns out Daniel Boone did.
And he was all right.. You know.
Yeah. We got to stop.
He actually died bankrupt. But anyway.
But yeah. Instead of relying on credit and credit scores.
I just. Like give yourself credit.
Give yourself credit that you can. Handle your own money.
Give yourself credit that you can budget. And you're a big girl and a big boy.
Isn't it interesting how that word is interchangeable? It is. Credit as in I'm going to go in debt or I'm going to give myself credit.
Cred. Street cred.
Street cred. I'm going to give myself the belief in myself.
I'm putting that in the quick read. And that's what I'm thinking.
Yeah. You know, I, I, there, but it, that's why the credit cards have big and the FICO score, really, when we talk about this, don't worship at the altar of the great FICO.
Yeah. Oh, great FICO provider of all good things.
We bring you offerings of interest so that you give us a bigger score that has nothing to do with nothing except how much we play kissy face with the bank. And we, you know, we, we really, this is our provider.
Yeah. Oh, F fico good old fico and i i think of these bad b movies with like a you know like a pyramid with flames coming out of the top and the you know the the the you know the the face the face made out of stone and the smoke coming out the ears yeah great fico oh great fico we worship you you know like we're mayans or something me a break.
No, none of that. Yeah.
But I mean, not picking on her, but I mean, that's where I was, too. I get it.
We were convinced the best way to become wealthy is to go in debt, stay in debt. Buy the people who want you to go into debt and stay in debt.
Yeah. Oh, they've convinced us of that.
The borrower is truly slave to the lender. Good.
Hey, another one down. She's going to cut it up, Jade.
We did it. She is.
She's going to do it. She's going to do it.
Kyle's in Spokane. Hey, Kyle, what's up? Yes, sir.
I'm happy to speak with you, Mr. Ramsey, and Mrs.
Walshaw today. I have a quick question.
My wife and I are on baby steps four, five, and six. We recently sat down with a few of your smart investor pros, all of whom are excellent.
We've narrowed it down to two, but there's one big difference between them. They'd both be great to work with, but I hope to get some guidance.
One is strictly fee-based. They assess 1% of the account value annually, and that would decrease by a few tenths as the account increases in value.
The second is commission-based, where it's 3.5% of all new money invested. In the long term, it seems like the fee-based approach would be way more expensive, but he argues that commission-based guys may use mutual funds with higher maintenance fees to kind of compensate themselves.
Well, that would not be true of a smart investor. Someone that has integrity would not do that.
So a smart investor that's wanting to charge you, I buy commission-based, but most people do managed funds like you're talking about. The vast majority of our smart investor pros are managed funds, or the 1% plan, okay? The vast majority of them areVester pros are managed funds, or the 1% plan.
Okay. Okay? The vast majority of them are.
Okay. But there's nothing inherently automatically bad about one or the other.
And you're right. Technically, you will come out cheaper with the commission base than the managed base, technically, okay, over the scope of your life, okay, okay mathematically but neither one is a ripoff both are worth the money and so like uh like i'm pretty sure for instance rachel and winston have theirs on the one percent plan and i do the old-fashioned the old the old-fashioned commission plan that's more of an old-fashioned style okay okay? But it is cheaper.
They're called A-shares. You're buying A-shares.
And the most you'd get charged is five and three-quarter on the front end, and then nothing after that, nothing ever after that. And so what's it take? It takes five and three-quarter years to break even on that, right? And so after that, you're making money.
So 10 years in, you make either one neither one are going to keep you from getting rich having a good financial advisor is going to make you rich because they're going to keep you in the game they're going to have the heart of a teacher and I wouldn't turn around spit for the difference I if I were you I wouldn't pick it based on that I would instead pick it based on which one of these two your wife likes best okay that's good advice right there which one did she like very good sir which one did she like best uh it's the the fee based then go with that okay she just likes that guy the best well he is handsome i'll give him that much oh i didn't mean that oh my gosh oh my gosh no that's not a reason to pick them either otherwise no one would ever listen to my advice i was about to say hey you were about to say that no i was about to say i know dave is not talking about oh my oh my oh my who can find a virtuous wife for her worth is far above rubies. The heart of her husband safely trusts her and he will have no lack of gain.
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Jade Washaw, Ramsey personality, best-selling author is my co-host today. We take your calls about your life and your money.
The phone number is 888-825-5225. Jack starts this hour in Cincinnati.
Hey, Jack, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave, how are you this afternoon? Better than I deserve.
What's up? So I've dug myself myself a hole and i don't know what the right answer is i probably do know what the right answer is but i don't know how to get out of it okay what happened uh well to make a long story short my wife and i got married two years ago after dating for about six years we waited till all the kids were out of high school and we could combine households a little more easily. After a big wedding, we started trying to pay stuff off.
But the minute we got home from the honeymoon and when it became the business of a relationship, the relationship changed. And that's where the problem lies.
So in the process of paying stuff off, last July, we decided, because we weren't making any progress on the credit cards, we made it a really wise decision to take a 401k loan for $50,000 payable in two years to pay it off. But now the credit cards are coming back.
So I've got a list if you want a list, but just not sure what to do with it. So your core question is what? How do I fix this and keep my marriage? Oh, okay.
Okay. Wow.
All right. So you've got a total of how much debt? 120.
Okay. And 50 is a 401k now.
35 left. That's correct.
Oh, 35 of the 120. Okay.
35 of that 401k is left. Okay.
Yeah. So 35 of your 120 is a 401k loan.
What is the other 85,000? Okay. So we've got a credit card with 11, eight credit card with 7,200 credit card with 19, two credit

card with 2,900, uh, two cars at 31, eight and 22, four, uh, my daughter's car at 2,900,

which will be paid off very shortly and a trailer for my, uh, losing business at 4, my daughter's car at 2,900, which will be paid off very shortly, and a trailer for

my losing business at 4,300.

Okay.

All right.

And what's your household income?

About 200.

Okay.

What's the losing business?

What's that mean?

So to fund an early retirement, I have a woodworking business that I do on the side.

It's taking up six to eight hours a night and every weekend. And in the last two years, we've lost about $10,000 a year.
Okay. So that sounds like an expensive hobby that's taking up a bunch of money and a bunch of time, both.
That's kind of an easy decision, isn't it? I need the eight hours to spend on my marriage. I need the $10,000 to spend on something else rather than a losing business.
Close it and sell off the stuff. Why wouldn't you do that? I could.
Yeah, you could. You'd have eight hours to spend on your marriage you said you're spending eight hours a night on this yeah i'm normally i'm normally in my shop until between nine and ten o'clock every night yeah that's good for marriage yeah okay and especially since you're not making any money i mean if you were making ten thousand dollars a night or something she'd probably be tolerant but um okay so you have two hundred thousand dollar income you have cars coming out your ears credit cards coming out your ears now the credit cards are growing back so that tells us that you're you guys continue to spend more than you make if the the credit cards are growing back, right?

Yeah, you took the HELOC out for the credit cards.

Tell me what you're spending this money on.

Is this just putting food on the table?

Is this funding your business?

What's going on these credit cards?

So three of those cards are funding the business.

One of them goes away in a week because I made a big sale.

Did you cut them up yet they're they're put away

they're not cut up okay there's the problem okay no there's a different problem i disagree the two of you have not sat down and said with a written budget that we're going to live on less than $200,000 a year.

Why?

To be honest, we have, but then something always comes in. So you just didn't stick to it? Pretty much.
So an example of something that comes in is what? A $4,000 collection item from Verizon from four years ago that we didn't know was coming, or a foreclosure for her and her ex-husband on a timeshare of all things that paid immediately because his credit doesn't need to be affected. I'm sorry.
I know timeshare is your favorite word. No, I don't understand why his credit matters to you.
Well, she was obligated to pay it in a divorce. Oh, okay.
So she knew she had that, and the Verizon bill was hers too? Yes. So she knew she had that.
She just didn't know when they were going to drop. But she knew these were unpaid bills if she's an adult.
I'm missing something here, Jack. Okay, I don't understand why this is ending your marriage.
Because the two of you can't get on the same page or what what's the problem so the the the stress of the bills is weighs heavy and we we go out and we we go out and we do uh we go to like a craft show on the weekend and we make a little bit of money and all of a sudden we're we're all in and we're ready to go take this business into early retirement but by tuesday when it rolls around and we're back out in the shop, it's, oh, holy cow, we've got to work again. So you just have a short term.
That's your side hustle. Right.
You have a $200,000 income and the two of you can't decide to live on that. That's what's confusing to me.
I think that your mindset is there's some place in your brain where you think you can kind of

windfall yourself out of this, whether it's, hey, we'll just take out the HELOC and that'll be our windfall to get out of this, even though it's not, or, hey, we can go to these craft shows and maybe we can make enough money to get a windfall and get out of this. And I think what Dave is getting at is you guys haven't truly looked at your behavior together as a team.
If you set a course and say, we're going to do this, no one else can make you follow that course of action other than the people in the mirror. And that's what we're getting at.
So, Jack, if you wanted to have some dramatic moves forward, okay, I can give you four things right now that if you go do them, by the end of the time you do those, which should be within two weeks, you're going to have a completely different scenario in your life. Sell both cars, sell the trailer, get out of the woodworking business, sit down with your spouse, and do a written, detailed budget where the two of you live on less than your day income, and you guys can clean this mess up in no time.
But you're screwing around with craft shows, losing $10,000 a year and eight hours a night, and losing your butt, and you can't sit down and manage to make it through a $4,000 bill making $200,000. So you can do this, but you've got two stinking expensive cars, you've got a stinking expensive hobby that you wish was a business.
And the two of you aren't working together. That's the answer, right? Those four things.
Hang on. We're going to put you through Financial Peace University, see if we can help you too.
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I talk to people every day who want to know how to do better in two areas, money and relationships.

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Starting April 21st, we'll be in Louisville, then on to Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth, and Kansas City. Grab your tickets at RamseySolutions.com slash tour before they're gone.
Jade Walshaw, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us.
Hey, folks, we know a lot of people who tune into every single

episode that we do. Thank you for that.
And you know all the answers. You can answer the questions

faster than we can. But you're still stressed.
You're still stuck. Why is that? Because it turns

out knowing what to do isn't the deal. Doing it is the deal.
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Application is part of wisdom. And the proven way to change your behavior with money is by taking Financial Peace University.
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Calandra is with us in Shreveport. Hey, Calandra, welcome to the Ramsey show.
Thank you for having me. Certainly.
How can we help? I have a question about a baby step number one, and I kind of want you to give me a bit of a critique on if you think I'm a little serious about this or not. All right.
What's going on? Okay. So I am halfway through baby step number one, working on saving that thousand dollars.
And unfortunately in my city, well, really in all of Shreveport, Bossier and some of the Arquitex, our tower was out. And so I had to throw away my whole fridge, basically, and refill it.

And it set me back a bit.

But that's neither really here nor there.

The electricity's back on.

Great.

But it's like every time I start to save my money,

if something like this happens to me.

And I'm not really complaining about it.

I'm a little frustrated.

But I am starting to wonder if maybe I just am not making enough money.

What do you make? To even get to that sense. Right now, I'm making $2,000 a month.
I live really, really cheap. I don't have a lot of expenses, but I do have a ton of debt.
I am making, like I said, $2,000 a month. I pay $650 a month for my rent, a couple hundred dollars a month, like $237 a month for my car, plus another $100 for my insurance, $100 for my phone, you know, things like that.
How old are you? I save about $326., this is, I do want you to make more money, but specifically for baby step one, you got like the thing, the thing that's going to keep life from happening to

you on this.

And, you know, you take one step forward, two steps back.

It's speed.

You've got to come in like a wrecking ball and just bull through this.

I mean, you're selling stuff. You're going so hard in the paint most people save this within 30 days like that i wanted to ask you how long have you been on baby step one yeah but two thousand dollars you can't do it yeah that's what i'm saying she's got to go she's got to pick up all the work do all the things the babysitting the house what do you do for a living i'm a banker i work at a bank full-time doing what i'm just a teller at the bank okay all right yeah i'm not like one of those loan specialists or anything like that.
I just got this job like two months ago.

Well, not two months ago, like in February.

High school education?

The day that I started, yep.

I'm back in college.

I'm going for my associates in business,

and then I will get a better paying job,

and then I will continue on with my bachelor's in business.

How are you paying for the associates? Actually, my job is paying for it. Great, great, great, great.
Yeah, so there's a path. You have a path in front of you to earning more, which is good.
But for the here and now, we've got to find ways to earn more. And I'm not saying that I like that you're on a path to earning more, but you got to pick up more hours somehow.
Maybe not, obviously, maybe not at the bank. I'm not sure what they offer there.
Let me ask you something. When you took the banker job or the teller job at the bank, obviously you were looking for work at that point.
What were you doing before that? Before that, I was a full-time artist, painter, and muralist. I was teaching a part-time job, teaching art to children.
Okay, so you took the – let me see if I can get in your head for a second. Did you take this job – And me see if I can get in your head a second.
Did you take this job to, because it felt like it was, like you were, like being an artist, you might have felt a little bit irresponsible, part-time and all that. This is like a responsible big girl job.
I'm going to get on a track here to build a career. No, I actually took that job because, uh, I took that job because back in the day I was in school for graphic design and I was paying for everything out of pocket.
I'm the first person in my family to go to college. And when I reached out to get support for not only my family, but for my counselors as well, um, I didn't really get a lot of good support.
I didn't get very much feedback, and I was doing everything on my own. I think you're amazing.
The thing I'm thinking about is I would like for you to do something that maybe is not as, I don't know. Not as whimsical.
I'd like for you to make twice as much money at something that doesn't sound as fun as banking or sound as professional as banking if you were to clean houses and make 48 000 or you can be a teller and uh be 24 000 i'll take the clean houses right now okay look You're creative. You have a skill set and you have an offering that the average person can't do.
There is a way that you can monetize that in some way and make more money per hour than you're doing right now. I agree wholeheartedly.
I applaud your move in the direction you're going, and I applaud all the decisions you're making. I think you're an incredible young lady.
It's fun talking to you. I would like for you to find a way to have a job that might not make everybody around you think you're cool or proud or whatever, but don't give a crap that makes more money right now.
You need some more money. That's what I'm thinking.
Yeah, if you could go make $48,000 on your day job and make another $20,000 on your side job teaching art to kids and create some kind of mentoring program or some kind of tutoring program or something along those lines. Summer workshops.
Yeah, you get paid. And, you know, if I could get your income, and then that increases your speed.
Because part of the problem is that you're not making money. That's right.
That's the problem. And it's not a put-down, if I could get your income, like, and then that increases your speed.
Because part of the problem is, is that you're not making money. That's right.
I mean, it's what you're, it's not a put down because I think you're moving in the right direction and, um, and you don't have good, uh, people around you to tell you to go do this or go do that. And so we're going to be those people.
Yep. Okay.
We're going to help you. Uh, I'm going to do a couple of things.
One is, uh, I'm going to put you through Financial Peace University, our nine-week program. I also want you to take Ken Coleman with the Ramsey Networks.
He has a show on career and on jobs, and he has an assessment, a career assessment. It's $30, but I'm going to give it to you.
Okay, and I'm also going to give you his book, From Paycheck to Purpose. I'm going to load you up, kiddo, because I think you've got huge huge potential and we're going to come around you put our arms around you and love you hug you and say get them tiger get them and you call back here any time and remind us of this conversation and we'll talk to you and and help you we'll be the ones in your corner but right now I would rather you be in a job that is not as um uh I don know what the right word is.
It's not respectable. That's not the right word.
But it's not as professional sounding. Yeah.
You know. She's a free spirit.
She needs a free spirit, reflective job. Bankers.
Let me tell you about banking in general. Okay.
Banking, big title, little money. Clearly.
Just in Clearly, clearly. Just in general.
And tell her bottom of that barrel. Big title, little money.
Lots of walking around like I'm doing something, no money. So when someone says they're a banker, I always snicker.
This is The Ramsey Show. All right, Dave, you have some strong opinions.
Possibly, yeah. I think so.
Okay, because you really prefer credit unions over big banks. So why is that? Well, credit unions, for one thing, are non-profit, which means that the members, the customers own the credit union.
So any profits that the credit union makes goes back into customer pricing. So you get better interest rate on savings, cheaper checking, and so on, that kind of thing.
But what's more important than that, though, is the fact that the customer is the owner changes the spirit on the credit union. So I find very few credit unions that aren't very customer-centric.
Yes. Well, and I think we have found one that is incredible, and that's Fairwinds.
They are an incredible credit union that is really out with the heart to help the customer. You know, that's why we're partnering with them, because they've got a scope to be able to handle the Ramsey audience, and they're the right kind of people with the right kind of values.
And they've done a really, really good job with customer service. And the deals that they're offering, the Ramsey tribe is incredible.
Yeah, absolutely. And you're right, their customer service is unbelievable.
Winston and I just signed up and we got an account. And I'm not kidding.
It took less than five minutes. It was so user-friendly.
The step-by-step approach was unbelievable. And then the, my phone rings and it says Fairwinds on my phone.
So I answered it and talked to someone there. And they said, yeah, they give calls to every new customer.
And so again, they just really care about your experience. And I so, so appreciate that.
So again, you guys, I know it can be a pain to switch banks or to open up new accounts, but Fairwinds, again, they make it so easy.

Plus, anything that you can do at a traditional branch, you can do with them at fairwinds.org

or on their app, and you'll have free access to over 33,000 ATMs.

Hey, you guys know how much I hate banks in general, and so for me to do this is a big

deal.

Talk to our friends at Fairwinds and check out the combined checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsey tribe. You guys, it's incredible.
Yeah, you guys, it's so easy to join Fairwinds no matter where you live. So go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey to learn more.
That's F-A-I-R-W-I-N-D-S dot org slash Ramsey. Hey guys, good news.
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All right. Today's question comes from Paige in Delaware.
My parents live in a different state than my husband and I. Everything is fine when they visit, but when they return home, they send us a bill for things that we ask them to purchase during their visit, such as food prep ingredients for meals, toiletries, etc.
The items are usually incidentals, not the full full cost of a meal are we wrong to ask them to help with expenses while they are staying with us okay y'all are weird page y'all are weird that's shocking to me that's just both of you are weird the fact that you ask somebody else to pay for stuff when they're staying in your home, regardless of who it is, is weird. You have a little hospitality.
They shouldn't have to buy their own freaking toilet paper. And if you're going to have a meal for a friend or a relative that's staying with you, you pay for the meal.
And your parents are weird. They go home and send you a bill? Yeah.
That's weird. Yeah.
I'm shocked. I truly am.
It doesn't make sense. The only thing that I could think of where this made sense is if they came and lived with you for three years or something, but there's no indication.
And even still, I... I have never stayed at someone's home and they asked me to pick up something at the store and sent them a bill I can't imagine they let me stay at their home and I've never stayed at someone's home who expected me to pay for something but I always try to leave with let them with more than when I came it's like how do you keep a tally about both sides of this grow a little generosity? Yeah, that's what's at stake here.
It's... Wow.
When someone stays in your homepage, you should furnish everything and take care of it. You should not ask someone to pay for it, period.
I don't care who it is. Oh, by the way, parents, when you stay in someone's home and they ask you to pick something up, pick up twice as much and leave it as a gift to say thank you for letting us stay there and don't send a bill.
Y'all are weird. Yeah.
Because where I, listen, if my family comes in, I'm the type, I want to give you a little care box. Like I want the stuff to be in the room and I don't want you to think of anything.
When you come to dinner, you bring a bouquet of flowers and a bottle of wine. Yes.
Hello. Wow.
God, man. Wow.
Y'all are weird. To weird to itemize you ate you ate an apple yesterday put that on the bill half a roll of toilet paper has been invoiced here toiletries i'm just saying y'all are weird i'd love to see that receipt i'd love to see what it looks like half half a bag of tostitos oh god man how you know for nine grapes first time I got the bill the next time they came to visit I'd be going motel six okay yeah you may as well stay in a hotel might as well go over there and you you settle up with those people there's free breakfast yeah you get those you get those powdered eggs man six o'clock in the morning that coffee that's been down, that orange juice that never saw an orange.
Man. You just stay yourself right over there, baby.
Wow. Wow.
Y'all are weird. Tracy's in Boise, Idaho.
Hey, Tracy, what's up? Hi. Thank you for taking my call.
Sure. I have a question.
My dad passed away in March of 2023. I'm sorry.
My sister and I were originally, thank you, were originally co-executors. A month after my dad passed, things got really volatile, and I removed myself.
I had my attorney draw up a letter to remove me from my dad's estate, let my sister be, and I've had no contact with him since, just via a few texts, a very generic i received an email on september 3rd for my sister's attorney the probate attorney asking me to sign a document regarding my dad's home had been on the market for over a year and had not sold my siblings want to close out the estate and put a renter in there which is not what my dad's will says, but because I'm an heir,

I have to sign this document. My question to you is if I sign this document, am I removing all legal representation that my remaining three siblings are just going to, you know, honor my dad's will and divide things up according to the will? Basically, my dad's will is very generic was sell all my assets, pay all my debts, divide everything by four.
Nothing has been done correctly in my dad's will. Nothing has.
And I've just let it happen. I mean, I stepped away, so I'm fine with that.
But my fear, and my husband and I are in baby step seven. We're building a home for cash.
Okay, what do you want to do with your share of the home? Are you going to just turn it over to them? Abandon it and walk away? I think that's an option. Okay, if you're going to do that, then you can sign the letter.
If you want your share of the home, you can't sign the letter. You don't need the money.
Thank you. What is it? We don't really need the money.
Nope, nope, we don't, and that's kind of where we're at right now. If we sign the letter, we're walking sign the letter how much is the house worth maybe once it sells and the debt that there was still a mortgage on it we might be talking 200,000 profit it's divided by four we're talking 50,000 each or less or less each yeah there's some other assets that you know that's not accounted for and i don't even care i just is it worth it is Listen, you're at your wit's end.
We can hear it in your voice. Oh, I am.
You've gone around and around on this. So, yeah, you've got to decide if you want to reenter the battle or you want to walk away.
So my position is, and which is what I told the probate attorney, I want the house left on the market and it sold. Yeah, that's it.
That's it. That's what the will called for.
That's what the will called for. The executor of the will is supposed to execute, that's thus the name executor, the will.
They don't get to make this up. And your sister's been making it up.
And so if I'm in your shoes, I'm going to either go, screw it, it's not worth it. Y'all just take the money.
I don't want it. And I'm going to walk completely away and never think about it again.
Or I'm going to just tell this guy, when you guys sell the house, I'll take my fourth. And no, I'm not signing anything until the house is sold.
Well, I feel like in many ways you made that decision when you walked away from being an executive, though.

No, no, no, she didn't.

She didn't lose her rights.

She just got out of the fight.

I'm not saying that she lost her rights, but you clearly were worn slap out and were like,

whatever.

No, she didn't want to stay in the day to day rough and tumble.

I didn't.

That's different than. I didn't.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I understand what you're doing.

So, you know, the thing is, here's what you're here's what you're really struggling with

is, you know, how pissed off everybody's going to be when you do this.

Thank you. I understand what you're doing.
So, you know, the thing is, here's what you're really struggling with, is you know how pissed off everybody's going to be when you do this. Well, they already are because they've dropped the house below – right now the house is left below appraisal or value because there's no more money to pay the mortgage, which is fine.
I don't care, but I don't want it taken off the market. My other conflict, Dave, this is, my sister is also the executor and the realtor, and this is one of our first house sells, which is another reason why.
She has the house listed? Yes. Oh, how many times can we spell conflict of interest? Exactly.
Okay, I just wanted to make sure, like, that's my thinking. I don't know how this attorney has kept his law license if he's allowing this.
Wow. Wow.
This probate attorney, he should be going, no, ma'am, you cannot do that. The attorney needs to be, oh, my gosh.
Is the attorney one of your siblings? No. You guys are confirming everything that my husband and I have discussed.
We've been following you since 2008. We became 100% debt-free in 2020.
Here's the thing. I would just say, listen, I'm not angry.
I just want my dad's honor. I'm not angry about this.
This is not about revenge. I'm just asking simply very kindly and calmly that you guys do what the will says.
And we ought to have I need to hire an attorney no you just don't need to sign it okay if you want an attorney you could go get one to get advice I'm not an attorney but if you just refuse to sign it and say I my instructions as one of the heirs is for you to execute the will properly and that means the house needs to, not rented. I do not want to be partners with these people 10 years from now in this house.
I don't want the liability. No, thank you.
Period. If they want to buy me out, they can do that too, by the way.
That's a great idea. But they can't even pay the payments, so they're not going to buy anybody out.
This is the Ramsey Show. Jade Washall, Ramsey Personality personality is my co-host today.
Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225.
Hey, we were talking about the real estate market a while ago and how people are sidelined because they can't find a property because of supply. They can't, they don't want to walk away from their 2% loan, uh, or they're waiting on the presidential election or whatever.
Um, really, if you're ready to move, I wouldn't let any of those things hold me back personally. And if you need some help, get with one of the Ramsey trusted agents.
All you got to do is go to Ramsey solutions.com slash real estate. And our guys can actually help you get a house sold or bought in this weird market and help you, uh, help you pull this thing off.
The other thing you need to know as this particular, uh, segment comes to a close, uh, the show will continue on the Ramsey app, the Ramsey network app. And, uh, if you want to get the entire show every day, YouTube or podcast or whatever, you can get video or podcast, you can get the whole thing on the Ramsey Network app free.
It doesn't cost a thing. Or, you know, if you're on talk radio, you're going to get what you've always gotten, wherever it is.
Nothing has changed there. But a couple months ago, we made the shift to the last portion of the show is now on the Ramsey Network app.
There was all kinds of data and stuff that went into that decision, and now that we are 60 days or so into that, it has proven to be true. So our YouTube listenership or viewership is up.
Nice. Our podcast completion rate and everything is up, we've still got the same amount of content and you go to Ramsey Network app.
You need to get the whole thing there or at least the last segment there. If you haven't downloaded the Ramsey Network app for free, we're not charging a thing for this, okay? You can go get it anytime you want to go get it.
So just go over to the Apple Store or the Google Play or whatever you're going to do and download the app and get the Ramsey Network app to get started. And so as this segment wraps up, we'll jump over to there with you.
Or, again, if you're talk radio or whatever, you're going to get what you've always gotten exactly. Okay.
Amanda's in Washington, D.C. Hi, Amanda.
How are you? I'm great. How are you all doing today? Better than we deserve.
What's up? Hey, so I have a question. I just discovered you all a couple months ago.
Thank God. My husband and I are in about a total of $90,000 debt, and I'm full on board.
Like, I don plan on using credit anymore ever. Um, I do own a business by the way.
And, um, so we're going through trying to figure out how to get through the baby steps the best way. But he asked me, he said, Hey, if you don't plan on using debt ever again, why don't you just file for bankruptcy? And what the you part where's he what wouldn't it be we uh yeah is it business debt is that why he's looking at it that way correct okay well no we it's the 90 000 is inclusive of everything personal and business okay so why would you file bankruptcy and he wouldn't well I guess he's looking at it as as my debt rather than our debt and that's part of us getting on board with everything range because before then we didn't have our finances combined so we're kind of still trying to change the language and everything like that.
Okay. How long have you been married? Every year is this November.
Okay. And break the 90,000 in debt down for me a little bit.
What are the major categories? Yep. So I, I have the student loan about 40 K in student loan.
And then pretty, pretty much the rest is just like credit cards and personal debt there's no car well no just a little bit of cards like 1900 but it's pretty much just credit card debt and is the credit cards you're using to keep the business going and what kind of business is it yes so two of them were used specifically for the business and then the other were just personal between the both of us is the business profitable it is it's it's getting there now um it's been open less than a year um and you know getting there is not what i asked is are you making a profit this month yes yes yes how much do you make this month? Profit. Profit wise? Yeah.
A little under a thousand dollars. Okay.
So you currently have a $12,000 a year job, which puts you at the poverty level if you don't get this business moving. Which you don't have a debt problem.
You have an income problem. No.
So that's not the only job that I have. Okay.
Oh, good, good, good. I was going to ask about that.
I was going to say this sounds a little bit more like a hustle until it's off the ground. Are you doing anything in the meantime? Correct.
Okay, great. So what do you do? What's your main job? Yeah, what's your income? My income is we bring about $8,500 to $9,000 a month together.
I'm a nurse practitioner. Okay.
And so we have our income together, but we don't have our debt together. So here's the thing.
Student loans are not bankruptable. Right.
Okay. So you have a $40,000 bankruptcy or $50,000 bankruptcy.
You're talking about not a 90. And you make, you're not going to get relief from everything by filing bankruptcy.
You're just going to get relief from about half of it. And do you own a home? Yes.
Okay. It's going to be in jeopardy depending on how much equity you have.
Do you have any equity in it? Yes. About $130,000 is the last time I checked.
Okay. All right.
Do you actually live in D.C. or do you live in Virginia? No, outside in Maryland, actually.
In Maryland. Okay.
Okay. Just for fun of it, I'll explain this to you, but it's not going to change our answer.
But knowledge good but knowledge will help you okay so when you file bankruptcy you surrender all of your assets to the court and the court starts doling them back out to you so the court would take ownership of your home not formally but technically and then depending on what maryland has um type that into google right quick what's the homestestead exemption in Maryland, Jade, while I'm yakking? And depending on what the homestead exemption is, in Tennessee it's $7,500. Okay? And so the court would let you keep $7,500 of your house equity after they sold your house to pay your debt.
Oh, no. Yeah.
If you were in Tennessee, I don't know what it is in Maryland. Right, right.
But in Texas, it's 100% and you get to keep all of it. It's exempt and so is it in Florida.
Okay. So each state's different, but let's say that it's 50,000 just for the fun of it.
Jade will have it in a minute, okay? But basically your home equity is going to go to pay your debt is what I'm telling you.

So your husband's suggestion is based in not knowing what's going to happen to you if you file bankruptcy.

So you find homestead exemption and bankruptcy for Maryland.

It's there, but it's not clear.

It doesn't say what it is. Let's see.
Should be just a little chart pop up. Okay.
Anyway, doesn't matter. You're going to probably, unless they have a hundred percent, which I don't think they do exemption.
25,150. Kelly just found it in the booth.
Okay. So 75,000 of your home equity would go to pay your $50,000 worth of debt.
So you can't file bankruptcy. You'll lose your house, and it'll pay your debt.
Shoot. You'd just be selling your house to pay your debts, what you'd be doing.
You follow me? No, I definitely don't want to do that. No, we don't want to do that.
No. No.
And still end up with a stinking student loan debt. I know it.
Yeah. Correct.
Yeah, no. So bankruptcy is off the table, okay? Even if that wasn't the case, you still wouldn't file bankruptcy when you have $120,000, $130,000 income on $50,000 worth of debt because the $40,000 student loan is not bankruptable anyway.
So even if you didn't lose your house, you wouldn't do that. I mean, what if you guys just lived on $80,000 and paid it off in two years two years yeah so i've done all the math and everything um he was very hesitant um but is going along now with the plan because i we did this back in june um so i'm that's what i calculated was 24 to 26 months um that's what i had calculated and that's assuming that's how you are now That's assuming you're not adding any extra income.
If your side hustle takes off and doubles, you'd do it in 18 months. That's right.
Exactly. So you guys need to get on beans and rice, rice and beans on a plan.
You need to combine your debts, combine your household, combine your incomes and combine your efforts and focus and kill this. You're not bankrupt.
And if you're not using every dollar, you need to get on every dollar because that is going to be the foundation of all of this. If you don't have that, you're not going to move at the speed you think you're going to move.
Yeah. Hang on.
We'll let them pick up and give you that for free. Okay.
We want you to not file bankruptcy. You're not bankrupt.
You don't need to file bankruptcy. What up, what up?

It's Dr. John Deloney from the Dr.
John Deloney Show with some amazing news.

The latest episode of United States of Anxiety is available right now exclusively on the Ramsey Network app.

This docuseries follows real people from my show as they embark on a 90-day journey to transform their lives, and I personally walk alongside them every step of the way. Okay, now here's a sneak peek of what the new episode is all about.
And don't forget to click the link in the show notes to download the app. What's up, Kelsey? So I've lived with crippling anxiety for as long as I can remember.
How do I stop it from constantly coming up in different areas of my life? What does crippling anxiety mean? Paint me a picture of that. All right, so you ready to jump in? I'm ready to jump in.
We're going to check in with Kelsey. 30 days, 60 days, 90 days.
I cannot even function because I'm just crying. My mom left us when I was four.
I truly felt like for a while I had no family. She's experiencing things that really hurt a long time ago.
Tell me about this boy. He triggers me a lot.
I'm scared of losing Paul, scared of doing the wrong thing, scared of not being enough. It just feels like it would be exhausting to be Kelsey.
It is. Whenever somebody's playing whack-a-mole with their anxiety, when it just keeps moving, that tells me the underlying system's not okay.
How do I get my inner child out of this relationship? Because I feel like she's running the show. One of two people that's supposed to never leave took off.
How is this burden? You're burdened, that's right. To the one person who should carry it, all of it.

Did you ever tell that little girl that it wasn't her fault?

I don't know what to do.

You either have to choose to let this guy love you,

or you got to choose to let this guy go.