Stop Letting Money Conflicts Tear Your Relationships Apart

Speaker 1 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual, amazing relationships.

Speaker 1 Open phones this hour at 888-825-5225.

Speaker 1 Multiple number one best-selling author and Ramsey personality. Rachel Cruz, my daughter, is my co-host today.
Open phones here. You jump in.
We'll talk about your life and your money.

Speaker 1 Victor is with us in Irvine, California. Hi, Victor.
How are you?

Speaker 2 I'm doing well, Dave. How are you?

Speaker 1 Better than I deserve. What's up?

Speaker 2 Hi. So

Speaker 2 three years ago, me and my wife

Speaker 2 was

Speaker 2 buying a life insurance policy from our father-in-law.

Speaker 2 We both make a pretty good income, but essentially, we're like three years in now, and I've just, I know we've maxed out our 401k, our Roth IRA, but I was talking to my father-in-law, and he essentially said it's like a good tax-free investment that we can do with our custom whole life policy.

Speaker 2 And since we already maxed out our 401k and our Roth IRA, and we even bought a house recently, we're just not sure if that's like the best way moving forward to put our money in,

Speaker 2 at least with our extra money. So that's our situation.

Speaker 1 Victor, you've been married three years, you said?

Speaker 2 Yeah, we've been married for about three years, yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay. All right.
So you're in your mid-20s, I assume.

Speaker 2 Yeah, me and my wife are both 27, so we got married around 24.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 I have to give you full disclosure here, okay?

Speaker 1 I have been trashing whole life policies and people who sell them for 30 years as being one of the biggest possible ripoffs in the financial world.

Speaker 1 So if you say Dave Ramsey to your father-in-law, his face is going to melt off.

Speaker 2 I know. I was afraid of bringing that up to him.

Speaker 1 I would not suggest you do that.

Speaker 1 Uncle Dave would suggest you don't do that to yourself with your father-in-law. I don't think there's anything to be gained by that.

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 1 you

Speaker 1 So basically he, you know, you have a guy in your life that loves you and that believes in these products. You have a guy on the radio that loves you and says these products are crap.

Speaker 1 And so now you've got to decide as a grown man with your grown wife

Speaker 1 what you guys are going to do and then how to navigate that decision. I would never recommend that you stay,

Speaker 1 that you buy something or do something because when you're a grown person because your parents said you had to

Speaker 1 to keep them happy I would not do that okay

Speaker 1 but I would also not recommend that you

Speaker 1 damage your relationship with your wife's father I would want you to be

Speaker 1 kind and honoring and really avoid an argument if I were you.

Speaker 1 I have family members, for instance, that I've been married for 41 years, Victor. I have family members that vote the wrong way.
Oh my gosh. They don't know how to vote.

Speaker 1 They pick the wrong party and they're just dumb about it. And I love them anyway.

Speaker 1 I love them anyway.

Speaker 3 We have family members that have credit cards and that.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I don't create at Thanksgiving a political argument with people who aren't going to change their minds that I love. Or a financial argument.
That I love. Or a financial argument.

Speaker 1 I don't give financial advice to people who don't ask for it and that includes everyone family included people who ask I will tell you so for Victor talking

Speaker 3 what why you don't like whole life insurance as an investment I I just well he knows he already knows why I don't like it don't you

Speaker 1 I know that you you mentioned that like the return over like 30 years is minimal yeah it is and when you die when you die the money that you have in there is gone they only pay the face amount and there is no such thing as a whole life policy that is tax-free if it actually got a rate of return.

Speaker 1 It is tax-free because the only way you can get your money out is to borrow your own money. And honey, if you go over at the bank and borrow money, they don't charge you taxes on that either.

Speaker 1 So, of course, it's tax-free, but it is not a tax, and it is not a tax good tax dodge. It is not a good investment.
It is not a good product.

Speaker 1 But now you can research a bazillion things that we have said about that. And then you've still got this deep, horrible relational problem.

Speaker 1 And I would recommend that you just be kind.

Speaker 1 If you decide to not use this product, which of course is my recommendation, I would recommend you don't get into an argument with your father-in-law about it.

Speaker 1 I would just say, you know, we've looked at it, and for us, we've decided to go another direction and we sure hope, adult to adult, that you'll just respect our decision, even though you think I'm wrong and I want you to respect my decision.

Speaker 1 And so, you know, I have a friend who's so stupid that the other day he leased a car

Speaker 1 and he's even dumber than that. He drove the car to my house to show it to me.

Speaker 1 Okay,

Speaker 1 but I didn't talk to him about car leases. I just went, hey, my friend has a nice car.
I'm going to be happy for him. And he's happy about his car.
And he didn't ask my opinion.

Speaker 1 And so I'm not going to just go adult to adult. I'm going to celebrate his adult decision, even though he did a nice thing in a dumb way.
You know?

Speaker 1 Right? I mean,

Speaker 1 I can still be friends with the guy. 100%.

Speaker 1 So I want to. I want you to be kind to your girlfriend.

Speaker 3 Even, yeah, even, yeah. I think the biggest thing is going to be, it could be, I don't mean, I don't know your father-in-law, but if this is what he does for a a living, it's a shot to the ego.

Speaker 3 I mean, like,

Speaker 3 right? I mean, if, I mean, if he believes in it so much, like if what we teach, you believe so much that if we can't, you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 It's a hard, it would be a hard thing to say, they're going to go a different direction from what I, not just believe, but the work I do. So just be prepared for that.

Speaker 3 And you and your wife need to have a lot of conversations, Victor.

Speaker 1 She's really got to be in this.

Speaker 3 Yeah. And just really dive in.
And you guys have to say, okay, what's best for us and find the facts because the facts is what's going to prove it to you, Victor.

Speaker 3 And you both have to be on that same page and say, okay, this is what we're doing. And I totally agree with you.
Keep it minimal. I mean, like, just say, hey, I think we're going to pass.

Speaker 1 Your wife has to be able to just look at her dad and

Speaker 1 smile and say, I love you. And we're going a different direction.
Yeah. You know? Dave.
So I love you. And we're going a different direction.

Speaker 3 But I'm going a different direction.

Speaker 1 All right. That's the thing.
You're announcing something on the air?

Speaker 3 No, but it's, yeah, this is where the

Speaker 3 relational factor of it is just, it can be be messy.

Speaker 3 But it's also a great practice, Victor, for you and your wife.

Speaker 1 You've got to learn to do this anyway. That's right.

Speaker 1 Over other things. Yes.
Because, you know,

Speaker 1 otherwise, you know, they're going to interfere when you get ready to name your first child. They're going to interfere when you get ready to buy your first house.

Speaker 3 They all do it out of love.

Speaker 1 And no, they do it out of love. They do it out of love.
Don't pet me.

Speaker 1 I don't interfere in your name. I don't interfere in your kids' names.

Speaker 1 That would be Mimi that does it.

Speaker 3 We don't tell our kids' names until they were born.

Speaker 1 Because you'll get a Mimi eye roll.

Speaker 3 We hand the BB to the grandparent and we say.

Speaker 1 Don't name them Moonbeam.

Speaker 1 It's all I request. No hippie names.
It's all I request. This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Rachel Cruz Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. Linda's in Pittsburgh.
Hi, Linda. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 2 Hi, how are you?

Speaker 1 Better than I deserve. What's up?

Speaker 2 Hey,

Speaker 2 we, my husband and I, are wondering how he can acquire his portion of the will that his mother wrote. So she passed away in 2006 and wrote a will giving the family home to her children.

Speaker 2 And his brother has lived

Speaker 2 in the house all of his life.

Speaker 2 and still lives there.

Speaker 1 Was the will probated?

Speaker 2 The will was probated by their stepdad in 2007.

Speaker 2 Okay. She passed away in 2006.

Speaker 1 Okay, and so the stepdad... Wait a minute.
The stepdad had nothing to do with the house and the will, right?

Speaker 2 Yes, it was just one of those where it was he had the right to occupy during his lifetime.

Speaker 1 The brother?

Speaker 1 Or the stepdad? Stepdad. Okay, so he had a life estate,

Speaker 1 and the will will left the property to your husband, his brother, and whatever other siblings.

Speaker 2 And a sister who...

Speaker 1 Okay, was the property retitled at that time?

Speaker 1 Did Pennsylvania probate require you all to retitle it and put everybody's name on it?

Speaker 2 The house is in Colorado.

Speaker 1 Oh.

Speaker 2 And at the time of probate,

Speaker 2 it was retitled to all three siblings.

Speaker 1 Okay, so you each own a third,

Speaker 1 undivided interest, it's called, okay?

Speaker 1 Right? Uh-huh. Okay.
Is sister still alive?

Speaker 2 No, she

Speaker 2 lost her battle with depression in 2017.

Speaker 1 I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
Yes. And did she have heirs?

Speaker 2 No, she did not.

Speaker 1 Okay, so I would suppose that your husband and his brother are now equal owners then. You would have to seek an attorney's advice to be 100% sure, but let's play this through.

Speaker 1 That's what it sounds like. It sounds like they're now equal owners, okay? And he doesn't have to do anything to acquire it.
It already has his name on it. The death of his sister

Speaker 1 left half of hers to him and half of it to his brother. And so now the two of them are 50-50.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 His name's on the title.

Speaker 1 If the property were sold, he would get 50%.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 Okay. So now what are y'all wanting to do?

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 he had,

Speaker 2 after

Speaker 2 probably it was two, almost two years after the stepfather passed away, he approached his brother about either buying him out or selling the home. And he said, absolutely not.

Speaker 2 I have no interest in selling the home, and I'm not going to buy you out.

Speaker 1 Okay, who lives in it?

Speaker 2 His brother.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 He has lived in it all his life.

Speaker 1 Okay. So he's living there for free?

Speaker 2 Yes. Okay.

Speaker 2 He has a roommate there that pays him rent okay and there's well

Speaker 1 here's the thing if you want to if you want to stir it up and cause this to come to an end because this is not this is not a fair situation this is unjust agreed

Speaker 1 agreed okay then um your husband how does he have any relationship left with his brother at all

Speaker 1 well they love each other it's just that there's i didn't ask that i asked if they had a relationship in the middle

Speaker 1 what there's there's

Speaker 2 i said they're they love each other there's this mountain in the middle.

Speaker 1 The house.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, it depends on how much your husband wants to invest in this.

Speaker 1 But if we want to try to save the relationship, you get on an airplane and he flies out there and he sits down with his brother and he says, okay, you living here for free is done.

Speaker 1 I'm a 50% owner in this and you can't live here for free anymore. You have to move out.
I'm demanding that. Or we have to sell the house or you have to buy me out.

Speaker 1 Now you decide which one you want to do. You want to move out and we rent it and we split the rents that we we collect or do you want to buy me out or whatever.

Speaker 1 I'll give you a deal if you want to buy me out. But you sitting here and me getting nothing and you living here for free ends.
I'm done.

Speaker 1 I love you. I hate what you're doing to me.
It's nasty and it's wrong and it's unjust. And he says that to him in person to his face.

Speaker 1 Okay?

Speaker 1 And then if the brother goes, well, I'm not going to do that. You say, yes, you are.

Speaker 1 Because if you do not, I'm going to hire an attorney and I'm going to sue in circuit court to have this partnership disbanded and the court is going to force the sale of the house to give me my half.

Speaker 1 And it's going to cost me $5,000 or $10,000 and you're probably never going to speak to me again. But I'm at the point that I'm tired of you screwing me over.

Speaker 1 This is how you have to handle it if you're going to handle it. Otherwise, you just got to accept it and go on.

Speaker 1 And then you have to hire an attorney, and the judge will demand that you sell the house to liquidate the estate.

Speaker 1 And they'll sell the house, and the brother will get half the money, and you'll get half the money. They'll be selling the house, correct?

Speaker 2 Do what?

Speaker 2 I said liquidating the estate is selling the house, correct?

Speaker 1 Yeah, you sell the house. Okay.
Sell the house, and you get your half. Now,

Speaker 1 or we can have the house appraised, and at 80%,

Speaker 1 80 cents on the dollar of the appraisal,

Speaker 1 I'll take my half.

Speaker 1 I'll give you a 20% discount if you want to buy me out.

Speaker 3 How much is the house worth, Linda?

Speaker 2 From what we can tell, it's probably right around $400,000.

Speaker 1 Yeah. This is just wrong.
And your brother-in-law is a leech. He's a parasite.

Speaker 1 And you're tired of it. That's why you called.

Speaker 1 Is your husband as tired of it as you are, or is he just going to let this go on?

Speaker 2 Oh, no, he's as tired of it as I am.

Speaker 1 okay he's just a super nice guy okay if you want to if he wants to try to be super kind to his brother he can fly out there and try to do this very calmly and just say this is over

Speaker 1 okay you're going to buy me out or the judge is going to force the sale of the house because when i leave this conversation if we're not in agreement i'm going to contact an attorney and we're going to court and the house is going to be sold because you living here for free is not right and it's not fair.

Speaker 1 You've been taking advantage of me and I can't let you do that anymore, even though I love you. That's wrong.
And brothers, and if you want to buy me out, I'll give you a discount on the appraisal.

Speaker 1 But I own 50%, you own 50%, and you can't live here free anymore. That's over.

Speaker 1 Fly, take a plane ticket, invest a plane ticket into the relationship, try to do it nice, and see if you can get him to move off.

Speaker 1 He may just think that your brother, my brother's a nice guy. He's never going to do do anything.
And he might be right.

Speaker 1 Talking about your husband, right?

Speaker 2 Yes, I know.

Speaker 1 I know. He sees your husband as a target, and he's using it.

Speaker 1 He thinks your husband's not going to do anything.

Speaker 1 And so, if your husband doesn't want to do anything, it's okay. I don't care if you want to just let this go on.
I'm not mad about it. It doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 But if you're going to do it, that's how you do it. I would sell it to him at a discount.

Speaker 1 Because if you sell it, you're going to pay expenses anyway, right?

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 1 And so if it's worth $400,000, I'll sell you my $200,000 at 80%, which is $160,000. That's a great deal.
You have 30 days to get me my money.

Speaker 1 If you do not get me my money in 30 days, I am going to begin a court proceeding that's going to force the sale of the house.

Speaker 1 And don't, you know, and that's the end of the discussion. And then just go hire a lawyer and do it.
And it'll take a dad gum year.

Speaker 1 And it'll take 10,000, and it'll be $10,000 out of your pocket in legal fees.

Speaker 2 Is there a way to find a reputable attorney in Colorado? Sure. That was our other thing.
It's like,

Speaker 2 how do you find one there without?

Speaker 1 Call one of our real estate endorsed local providers. Jump on the line at Ramsey and find the real estate endorsed local providers.
Tell them you need a good real estate attorney.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 And they'll they'll give you a recommendation

Speaker 1 and um uh that's the only way i mean you got to have somebody you that you trust and these are high high octane real estate agents that we endorse and they'll know somebody that's a quality attorney that can litigate this but i i really wouldn't you know i

Speaker 1 it may be that when you hire the attorney and you spend 500 and he has to he decides to send a letter to the brother that that wakes the brother up and then the brother does it.

Speaker 1 Because the brother's probably, he's been living this way a long time. He's probably not going to take the first,

Speaker 1 he's not going to believe your husband that he's going to do anything because he's never done anything.

Speaker 1 So he's suddenly a man of action. That's going to be shocking to the brother.

Speaker 1 This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality. My daughter is my co-host today.
Open phones at 888 825-5225.

Speaker 1 Ashley is with us in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hi, Ashley.
How are you?

Speaker 2 Hey, Dave. Oh, my gosh.
I'm so excited to talk to you guys.

Speaker 1 You too. What's up, kiddo?

Speaker 2 So, my husband and I are looking into maybe starting a new business. We are totally debt-free with a paid-for house.
We have one year of emergency funds saved up.

Speaker 1 Wow. Nice.

Speaker 2 Yeah, we've been following you and doing you for seven years since we got married. And so we just got debt-free not too long ago and paid our house off about a month ago.

Speaker 1 Oh, wow. Congratulations, Ashley.
Way to go.

Speaker 2 Thank you.

Speaker 2 So we are, I love food. I love making food.

Speaker 2 People really seem to like respond well when I post things on Facebook sharing things and they have actually come to us wanting us to maybe start a food truck or like a cafe of some kind.

Speaker 2 We talked to our CPA and he was leaning more towards a food truck. He said that like the overhead was less.
They were less likely to

Speaker 2 like not go under because of all the overhead.

Speaker 2 But my concern with the food truck, we have been looking into them, is of course that you know it would still be considered a depreciating asset, correct? Like

Speaker 2 even if we paid cash and saved up for it, it's still depreciating versus

Speaker 2 like a brick-and-mortar. I mean, I guess if we're owning,

Speaker 2 if we don't own it, we're still paying rent. So I just didn't know if you were...
winged one way or the other.

Speaker 1 I would not decide my business model based on either one of those things or based on a CPA's advice. Okay.
You need to decide your business model on what your dream is. What do you want to operate?

Speaker 1 Do you want to operate a food truck? Do you want to operate a brick and mortar? And then let's figure out how to pay for it and how to make the money to how to make it profitable. Right.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 is there another in-between step like start catering?

Speaker 1 as a start and start to build up your customer base from catering.

Speaker 1 I know several excellent chefs that have big operations now that started as catering.

Speaker 3 Gotcha. And what's your end goal, Ashley? Do you want to be a restaurant owner?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Like do you want to like have, like, is there a big dream or is it more just a passion of yours and you love it and it's something to do on the side that's really fun?

Speaker 2 I've always wanted to be more of a chef. Like the food in part of it is more like my dream and passion.
My husband was in the food industry for a while and he actually was the business side of it.

Speaker 2 So So as far as that, I think the brick and mortar having like a small cafe, I'm thinking something kind of small scale of like a cracker barrel.

Speaker 2 I'd love to have like a little store inside and be able to combine healthy like whole food, plant-based foods with more like regular foods,

Speaker 2 like a blend of the two. So people that my husband eats burgers and fries and steaks.

Speaker 1 I think the only reason you're considering a food truck is

Speaker 1 it doesn't sound congruent with this dream. Gotcha.
The cafe sounds congruent with the dream.

Speaker 2 It does, yeah. Now that you're talking me through that, it does, yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 It just feels like it the way you say it out loud. And here's the thing.

Speaker 1 Your CPA is right about one thing.

Speaker 1 Restaurants have a higher failure rate than almost any other business category.

Speaker 1 Right. Yeah.
And

Speaker 1 so you've got to really lean in on the business operations part, not just the food quality.

Speaker 1 If you make the best and healthiest food on the planet and no one is there, this isn't going to work.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 1 And so there's the marketing and the operations of this. And what I would do is I probably would start as a catering operation and build a customer base and then look for

Speaker 1 a place to lease.

Speaker 1 Don't buy a piece of real estate and

Speaker 1 build you out a little restaurant. And your leasehold improvements that you put in there will be a depreciating asset too.

Speaker 3 But let me, I mean, but Ashley, like, I mean, and tell me if I'm wrong, I mean, but this could be hundreds of thousands of dollars. I mean, this isn't just like a little thing.

Speaker 3 And I wonder if that's why the CPA was like, yeah, a food truck is going to be way less expensive to get something going.

Speaker 1 Not necessarily. I mean, if you found a location that the building was there and someone else had had something

Speaker 1 in there and got ready. But you're not going to have to do that.
And your kitchen items are in there. You go in and renovate.
You might spend less than a food truck to renovate it. It's possible.

Speaker 1 And, you know, to upgrade it, get the fresh coat of paint. And,

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 that'll work.

Speaker 1 You could start with a food truck if you want to. But the question is just what you want to do for the next five years of your life.

Speaker 1 And I think you want to cook, and I think he wants to run a restaurant. And that doesn't sound like a food truck to me.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 1 That's a different gig.

Speaker 3 It's a different feel. And even Ashley, like,

Speaker 3 you know,

Speaker 3 we've been to a few places over the last probably two or three years, people's homes for events, and they have someone come in and cook.

Speaker 3 And, you know, and the, and the chef guy brings his card around. He's like, next time you guys have a party, I can do a, I can do a dinner for eight of your friends or like, you know, whatever it is.

Speaker 3 And I'm like, if you get the right people in a room that taste your food, that then spread the word, right? Like there's ways to do it. So the catering, if that's what you were meaning, but even

Speaker 3 coming in and cooking for friends and having them bring friends. And, you know, I I mean, you can start small just to get the word out about what you're doing because it sounds great.

Speaker 3 But also, I just know restaurant, it's just a big investment. Like when you hear

Speaker 3 when you hear brick and mortar, I mean, it's just you're going to be having staff. You're going to, if there's not already a kitchen, how much those appliances cost? I mean, it's just, it's a lot.

Speaker 1 It's a lot.

Speaker 3 Not that it can't be done, Ashley, but it is. It is a feat to take on.
So it's you guys really.

Speaker 1 Drop $100,000 in a truck and you can drop $100,000 into your leasehold improvements, either one, real quickly.

Speaker 1 Make sure you've got the cash, and that way, then the only overhead you've got is your lease and your payroll and your food truck.

Speaker 3 I just know there's like the growth. I mean, I just can think of probably three or four food trucks

Speaker 3 that started as food trucks that ended up becoming restaurants because their brand was so big here in Nashville that they opened up a restaurant because of that.

Speaker 3 So I'm just wondering, is that a, that's not a stair-stepping?

Speaker 1 It can be, but then you got, you still got, you either continue to operate both or you've got this extra truck left over. Yeah.
Yeah. So I just, the question is what she wants to do.

Speaker 1 I mean, I'm with you on the idea of starting some chefing in-home stuff.

Speaker 1 We were at a high-end charity event, your mom and I, the other day, and the food was incredible. She collects the chef's card, and he's helping us with the family reunion that's coming up.

Speaker 1 So, I mean, you know,

Speaker 1 that's how you get the business out. And so it's, it's,

Speaker 1 but you can build a clientele based on that. And then if, like, we have friends that are chefs that have do in-home stuff.
And if they ever open something, we'd be a customer. Right, right.

Speaker 1 You know, so because we're a customer now, that kind of thing. Same kind of thing with this guy.
And that's a process there that you can go through.

Speaker 1 And pick up the book, The E-Myth, by Gerber and read that. He talks a lot about learning to work on your business, not just in your business.

Speaker 1 Being a chef is one of the pieces you have to do to operate a successful restaurant. The other pieces are business orientation that your husband has, apparently.
And I would lean into all of that.

Speaker 1 I really, really would.

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Speaker 3 Today's question comes from Carter in New Hampshire. He says, my wife and I are avid listeners, but we don't share the same views financially.

Speaker 3 I'm an analyzer when it comes to finances and it annoys her to no end. I have a two-year emergency fund and our home is paid off.
Together, we earn $200,000 a year.

Speaker 3 She likes to spend and wants me to co-sign on a vehicle. That's $80,000.
She has $10,000 in credit card debt and she pays $15,000 each year for private school for our kids.

Speaker 3 If I mention anything about money, I'm the one who's wrong.

Speaker 3 I wish I could say that we pay for vacations, recreational toys, and trips, but these funds come from my checking account and she gets mad when I say that I pay for them.

Speaker 3 Is it okay to have an account together to pay bills and separate for spending accounts?

Speaker 3 I mean, I think you guys are disjointed completely when it comes to money. I mean, obviously, this is like a pick and choose what we want to do together and what we don't.

Speaker 3 And I think the goal here is that you are a unified team with all of it, right? All of it together.

Speaker 3 So the spending, the saving, where your kids are going to college or to school, where you guys, you know, what kind of cars you guys buy, that you are in agreement together in those things.

Speaker 3 And so some, you know, she's a spender, so you guys are in a great position. You have no debt.
You have great emergency funds.

Speaker 3 So if she wants to go spend a little, you can't be crazy and be like, no, you can't spend anything. Right.

Speaker 3 And you sound a little bit, you sound a little crazy to a degree, Carter, that she just wants a little bit of freedom. But then she, on the other end, is not

Speaker 3 what it sounds like. $80,000 car and credit card debt.
That's crazy. The same value system, though, is what's not being played out.

Speaker 3 So I think that's, that's the issue is that you guys are functioning not on the same value system. And so it's looking like a mess like this.
And the accounts, that doesn't fix it.

Speaker 1 I don't think they have a money problem. People think they have a marriage problem.

Speaker 3 Right, but that's the problem: people think, is it okay if we just have separate accounts? And what that does is it sweeps the one issue that you actually need to talk about under the rug.

Speaker 3 It doesn't fix it. It actually continues to alienate you guys from each other.
So, no, Carter, I would not do these separate accounts.

Speaker 3 I would force you guys to work out of one account because, to your point, it's actually actually going to reveal other issues that are actually going on in your marriage.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and I'm the one that's wrong. She gets mad.

Speaker 1 You know, if you just change out the subject and it wasn't money and you were talking about something else and she acted that way or you acted that way, you over-analyzed everything, which is what you're doing for sure.

Speaker 1 And on the other hand, then she's acting like a princess and stomping her foot with her little red face till I get what I want. And if you don't let me have what I want, then you're wrong.

Speaker 1 This is a marriage problem. You guys desperately need to sit down with someone because here's the problem.

Speaker 1 The probability

Speaker 1 that you have a high quality marriage going forward using this system is close to zero.

Speaker 1 You may or may not get divorced later, but you're definitely not having fun.

Speaker 1 in your relationship.

Speaker 1 And the probability that you build wealth with with both of you pulling at each other the whole time instead of pulling the wagon? No, almost zero.

Speaker 1 One of the things we found when we study wealthy people is the data tells us that they work together with their spouse. They're unified in their goals.

Speaker 1 They're aiming at the same target and pulling the trigger together. That's what we're doing.
And

Speaker 1 you can't drag along a princess. She can't drag along someone who overanalyzes everything and has no fun left anywhere in life because you squeeze every dollar until George Washington screams.

Speaker 1 And no, you can't. You got it.
You've got to have something in here. We've got to have some flow to this, some relationship to this that's not in here.

Speaker 1 And so, yeah, this desperately screams of a need for marriage counseling to me.

Speaker 1 For sure. Open phones at 888-825-5225.
Bo's with us in Las Vegas. Hi, Bo.
How are you?

Speaker 2 I'm doing good. Can you hear me?

Speaker 1 Absolutely. What's up?

Speaker 2 So, I wanted to know if I can keep using my credit card. And I know you're probably going to say no, but I'm going to try anyway.

Speaker 1 You're right. No.
So

Speaker 3 do your convincing, Bo.

Speaker 1 So give it your best shot, Bo.

Speaker 2 All right. So this is a unique situation.
I've never heard it on your show, and I've been only listening for like five months.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 So I have one credit card.

Speaker 2 I have a medical condition, and my medication is insanely expensive.

Speaker 2 And I can't afford it until I hit my deductible, which my insurance will cover, but my deductible is $13,000.

Speaker 2 And so the pharmaceutical company that makes it will reimburse me for it. And I've been doing this for two years.

Speaker 2 And so I use the credit card and I get cash back for the, and then they reimburse me in a few days.

Speaker 2 So is that that something that I would keep it for?

Speaker 1 Why don't you just pay cash?

Speaker 1 Why don't you pay cash?

Speaker 2 I can.

Speaker 2 I have, but it's really expensive. Oh, good.

Speaker 1 Well, pay cash.

Speaker 1 And then you still get reimbursements. It's really expensive either way, dude.
You're out the money either way, right?

Speaker 2 Yeah, but I get the money back from the pharmaceutical company.

Speaker 1 Okay, and so you use your cash, and then you get your cash right back.

Speaker 2 I can do that, but I get another $300

Speaker 1 Oh, whoop-de-doopty.

Speaker 1 Okay. You're going to sell your financial soul for $300?

Speaker 2 Well, it's.

Speaker 1 I never met a millionaire that said, you know, Dave, I made all my money on my airline miles.

Speaker 2 It's not airline miles.

Speaker 1 I know. It's $300.

Speaker 1 $300 has never created a millionaire.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 I agree. I just don't make a lot of money, so it's risky.

Speaker 1 Well, then

Speaker 1 if $300 is a lot of money, then that's a different problem, isn't it?

Speaker 1 You have an income problem then.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I don't think I'm going to make more money. Why? It's not because I'm lazy.
I'm not really worth a lot of money.

Speaker 1 Why?

Speaker 2 Society would say I lack intelligence or education.

Speaker 1 They're different.

Speaker 1 You don't lack intelligence. You've carried on a very clear conversation in a high-pressure situation.
You don't

Speaker 1 lack intelligence. You've done a good job in this banter that we've had here, which was kind of fun.
So you're not lacking in intelligence. You might not have education.

Speaker 1 That doesn't mean you're not able to make a living. What do you do? What do you make?

Speaker 2 I make $26.35 an hour.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 That's not super bad. You were getting 40 hours.

Speaker 2 No, I work, well, it varies, but seasonally. I work between 30 and

Speaker 2 45 hours a week. It depends on what time of year.

Speaker 1 What do you do?

Speaker 2 It's kind of, I work for a distribution center.

Speaker 2 I operate.

Speaker 2 The simplest way I could say it is I manage robots.

Speaker 1 Okay, are you 24?

Speaker 1 Are you 24?

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 1 Hold on. 42.
I'm sorry?

Speaker 2 42.

Speaker 1 42. Okay.

Speaker 1 So here's the deal.

Speaker 1 What I would do, if I were you, is I would say, hey, I can be anything I want to be. What are the steps to being one of those?

Speaker 1 And I could make twice as much money being one of those. And I want to go start working towards being one of those.
And it could be an apprentice program. It could be a certification program.

Speaker 1 It could be a couple of classes at the local community college. I don't know.
But you're capable of doing all of those things.

Speaker 1 And so your issue is that you need to increase your income and have some career goals. We'll help you with that.
I'm going to give you Ken Coleman's book,

Speaker 1 Find the Work You're Wired to Do. I want to get the title right.
So I turned around and looked at it.

Speaker 1 And it's got in it the get to clear assessment. I don't have to look at it because we've had over 100,000 people take this assessment and it'll help you get clear on what your skills are.

Speaker 1 And I want you to go work on that bow to where $300, to where you're no longer in a place where you think $300 changes your life.

Speaker 1 Don't be in a place where you think $300 changes your life. You want to be in a better place than that.

Speaker 1 And then you don't fall into the traps of these stinking banks and these stinking credit card companies. And you get sucked in thinking they're actually there to help you.
They're not.

Speaker 1 So, problem solved. Hang on.
We'll give that to you as our gift. This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions. It's the Ramsey Show, where we help people

Speaker 1 build wealth,

Speaker 1 do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. The phone number here is 888-825-5225.

Speaker 1 Rachel Cruz, multiple number one best-selling author, Ramsey personality, co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour, and my daughter is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Speaker 1 Nicole is in Salt Lake City. Hey, Nicole, how are you?

Speaker 2 Hi, I'm good. How are you?

Speaker 1 Better than I deserve. What's up?

Speaker 2 Well, I'm so grateful to actually get to speak to both of you, especially another working mom.

Speaker 2 I'm concerned with whether or not I would be harming my family's financial future if I take an extended maternity leave with my second child.

Speaker 2 I didn't take that with my first child, and I've had a lot of regret about that. And my husband and I are considering whether or not

Speaker 2 I could take a year or two off of work.

Speaker 2 If I did, we wouldn't be able to put

Speaker 2 as much toward our debt snowball as we have. We've paid off about $217,000 since 2020.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 What do you do, Nicole?

Speaker 2 I'm an attorney.

Speaker 1 What do you make?

Speaker 2 Net take-home for both of us.

Speaker 1 No, so what do you make?

Speaker 2 I think my net take-home is $120,000.

Speaker 1 What about your husband?

Speaker 2 His is about

Speaker 2 maybe $60,000, I think. No, it was 70 last year.
His net was 70.

Speaker 1 What's he do?

Speaker 2 He owns some car washes. Okay.

Speaker 1 So you're going to cut your income by

Speaker 1 60, 65%.

Speaker 2 Yes. Okay.

Speaker 2 And then we would still have $86,000 of my student loan left. It's our only debt besides our mortgage that we still have left to pay on, but we've been paying on it.

Speaker 2 And so it's going to set us back. We'll be able to make the minimum payments and maybe a little bit more with distributions, but maybe inconsistently.

Speaker 2 And I guess I'm just concerned because we started a family later in life. We'll both be in our early 40s by the time I wanted to go back to work.

Speaker 2 And so obviously having that debt and then having not invested that long, I'm just concerned this is going to cause harm long term.

Speaker 3 I kind of want to like relieve you from

Speaker 3 that, Nicole. I don't think it's harm long term.
I mean, I think, yeah, your goals are going to shift if your family goals shift and that's a reality.

Speaker 3 But it's not like you're putting your family in massive danger here, right? I mean, I have some other ideas that we can talk through here in a second, but

Speaker 3 this so many women feel this, and especially since you're the breadwinner of that I have to be the one to save everything and it's up to me and I'm going to put my family in danger.

Speaker 3 I'm, you know, like this language that you're using,

Speaker 3 it's, it's very heavy. And I think it's, and what I would say is that it's, um,

Speaker 3 you're putting more pressure on yourself than needs to be there.

Speaker 3 Yes, getting out of debt is a huge goal and it's one that I want you guys to work towards and one that you've made such significant progress to.

Speaker 3 But like we said the last hour of the show, we talked so much about how debt is a tool to create, or I'm sorry, money is a tool to create a life that you love.

Speaker 3 And you guys have have to look at your family unit and your family is a priority, Nicole. I mean, your family is one that you're like, okay, what, what is best for us right now?

Speaker 3 And as a mom, I get it. Like that,

Speaker 3 I mean, I pulled back from work after my third because I was like, I just, I want to be home more. And so all of that is real.

Speaker 3 Now, does that mean we want to stop everything you guys have been doing and the progress you've made? No, I wouldn't suggest that either. And so

Speaker 3 I think a wonderful middle ground, Nicole, for you is to have,

Speaker 3 because I mean, an attorney, I'm like, that is such a stressful job. And the hours you work, I mean, I can't even imagine.

Speaker 3 So, what does life look like if Nicole stays home and her career shifts and your career looks different for a year or two? What does that look like?

Speaker 3 And so, I would start, you know, having that kind of conversation of, and I don't know this world, Nicole, so you probably can direct me better in this conversation from this point on in this sense.

Speaker 3 But is there work to be done that you could do, outsource your skills at some level, some degree, that is significantly less stress and less time than what you've been doing and still be bringing in some kind of flow, right?

Speaker 1 To offset the student loans that are there because of law school. Right.
You know, so let's use the law degree to clean up the law degree mess. But does it have to

Speaker 1 be not like that? Maybe not in a traditional attorney setting,

Speaker 1 what Rachel's saying. And Rachel says she pulled back.
She pulled back.

Speaker 1 But she's not out of the saddle either. She's, you know, her social footprint has grown.
She's still doing appearances.

Speaker 1 She's still on this show, still launched a number one best-selling kids book a few months ago.

Speaker 1 And so, and did all of that on, you know, less than a full-time hour slate.

Speaker 3 In an office, yeah, correct.

Speaker 1 Yeah. In the office.
And so,

Speaker 1 you know, but we just shifted around how, what we're doing with her brand and how we're doing that

Speaker 1 for a season here while the little one is there. And so.

Speaker 3 For you, that's what I would present to you.

Speaker 3 What does that shift look like? Right. Because there is a, you know, there's a level of responsibility that you guys have financially, right? That you have to fulfill.
You have to make these payments.

Speaker 3 And getting out of debt, as you know,

Speaker 3 lifts so many burdens, right? If you didn't have this debt, then you could have the option to stay home full-time if you wanted. Right.
So,

Speaker 3 but, but I do think, Nicole, that there's something there that there still can be money to be brought in. I think you have to think creatively.

Speaker 3 And that's probably what I would encourage you to do, to have something. And then he, honestly, Nicole, will probably have to step up his game.

Speaker 3 If you guys keep this momentum with paying off debt, I just don't want you to think it's an all or nothing.

Speaker 1 Things can shift. And

Speaker 1 harm is not the right word. Rachel's right.
That's an overstated word,

Speaker 1 a mom-guilt word in this. Because

Speaker 1 you guys can't win, okay? You get mom guilt if you're at home because you feel like you should be at work. And if you're at work, you get mom guilt because you feel like you should be at home.

Speaker 1 I mean, it's a no-win. And there's always some more on either side of the coin telling you you you should be doing the other one, right? And so

Speaker 1 we're not going to be either one of those, but probably some kind of

Speaker 1 a change, a hybrid approach, because there's a part of me that says, okay,

Speaker 1 you went to all the trouble and the expense and the debt to be a lawyer to go cold turkey doing nothing with that.

Speaker 1 While you've still got 80,000 of it outstanding, that doesn't feel right either. Okay.

Speaker 1 But also, not addressing this need that you've got, this desire you've got to be at home, doesn't feel right. And so, I think somewhere in there along Rachel's suggestion is

Speaker 1 the proper answer. But I want to take the, I'm with Rachel, I want to take the guilt thing of, are you doing irreparable harm? No, you're not doing irreparable harm.

Speaker 1 You just kind of got to think through. I spent a lot of who I am

Speaker 1 in money, time, debt, effort, brainpower to be a lawyer. And to cut that off completely,

Speaker 1 even for just two years, feels pretty extreme.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And Nicole, and everyone's obviously created so differently, but considering what you've done and as you listed all that, Dave, I was thinking like, you know, you might look up in six months and be like, oh my gosh, I'm crazy.

Speaker 3 I'm not happy because I need some output. You know, so you may find that in you, how you're wired, you're going to want to do something as well.
And so

Speaker 3 that's a possibility too. So you're doing great, Nicole.

Speaker 1 You're going to be okay. You're going to do good.

Speaker 1 You're asking the right questions.

Speaker 1 Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host.
This is common sense for your dollars and cents, a concept Congress can't grasp. It's called The Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Thank you for being with us. The number's 888-825-5225.

Speaker 1 Aaron is with us in Las Vegas. Hi, Aaron.
How are you?

Speaker 2 Good, guys. Thanks so much for having me.
I really appreciate it.

Speaker 1 Sure. Our pleasure.
How can we help?

Speaker 2 Well, my wife and I love the show. We've gone through FPU.
We're in baby step six right now, so we're super excited about that. But a couple months ago, our situation changed.

Speaker 2 I'm currently in the process of being diagnosed with a very rare form of muscular dystrophy.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 so

Speaker 2 just

Speaker 2 what I just want to say in the process, I've had a genetics test that's a possible match. My doctor is 90% sure, and I've done a biopsy, but next week I actually find out the results of the biopsy.

Speaker 2 And so

Speaker 2 we've obviously done the baby steps. We're in a good situation that way.
But I guess my question is, what insurance and what type of long-term planning would you suggest in this?

Speaker 2 And I guess, am I i too late to get to the party to get insurance in this sort of situation now

Speaker 1 life insurance

Speaker 1 uh yes yes you're too late to the party yeah okay um

Speaker 1 um sorry uh

Speaker 1 the

Speaker 1 uh

Speaker 1 and then how you plan for it would be based on i i don't know anything about muscular dystrophy in this millennial.

Speaker 1 I mean, I remember like the telethon when I was a kid or something, and that was, that was when the dinosaurs roamed the earth. And I don't know what this prognosis means for you.
Do you?

Speaker 1 What do you understand so far?

Speaker 2 I know it's very rare. There's less than a thousand people in the U.S.
that have what I have. And

Speaker 2 it's I'm I'm fully functional right now, but it's possible in the next 10 to 15 years, I could be in a wheelchair and I could lose

Speaker 2 breathing function, so I'd have to have a respiratory device.

Speaker 3 Aaron, I'm so sorry. Oh, wow.

Speaker 1 Thank you. And then that

Speaker 1 following that stage, it probably doesn't end well, I'm guessing.

Speaker 2 It's very possible, yes.

Speaker 1 It continues to deteriorate or does it plateau off with the breathing device?

Speaker 2 It can plateau, but more than likely it will deteriorate from there.

Speaker 1 How old are you?

Speaker 2 I'm 46.

Speaker 1 Okay. All right.
So we're talking about 60 years old, give or take.

Speaker 2 Exactly. Okay.
All right.

Speaker 1 I'm sorry, man. It's hard to face something like that.

Speaker 3 Do you guys have kids?

Speaker 2 No, we do not.

Speaker 5 How's your wife?

Speaker 2 She's so supportive. Very, very, very awesome.
Yeah, she's great.

Speaker 1 Well, I think one of the things I'll tell you from working with families, I don't know anything about the medical world, except that

Speaker 1 they call it practicing medicine for a reason. They're practicing.

Speaker 1 And so in other words, things change and extra opinions and continuing to study and continuing to argue with the

Speaker 1 what's in front of you is good, not in a denial way, but just not accept that one guy says, okay, you're going to be gone in six months. And you go, well, maybe not.
Maybe I'm going to try this.

Speaker 1 And, you know, so on.

Speaker 1 So, you know, you're going to, you're going to, you're going to become an expert on this, dad blame it, you know, to be an advocate for yourself.

Speaker 1 So I'm going to tell you to continue to do that and don't just accept one thing and walk away. I don't think you were going to anyway.
But

Speaker 1 second, third, fourth, and later on, eighth opinions, just keep working the problem.

Speaker 1 Now, while you're doing that,

Speaker 1 there is...

Speaker 1 I have perceived in others, not myself. I've not experienced this, okay? So just like someone calls me up and says, I've got a stage four

Speaker 1 cancer diagnosis, and they're giving me four months to live.

Speaker 1 That call has come in here over the years several times, or I've actually sat with people in a room where they were telling me this stuff. And

Speaker 1 they're

Speaker 1 already have processed the emotions and now are going, okay, what the flip do I do kind of thing. All right.
So that's why you're calling.

Speaker 1 In that case, what I found is that facts are your friends. And so

Speaker 1 there is a tremendous peace that comes

Speaker 1 from having your spiritual house in order, number one, but then number two,

Speaker 1 getting your house in order financially. And you say, okay, if this unfolds, I got about this many years, and we're talking wheelchair, and then I got about this many years on a breathing device.

Speaker 1 And if it doesn't stop deteriorating, I've got this many years. And so you, okay, based on that, I'm going to lay out a plan.
And then if I get a different result, I'll change the the plan.

Speaker 1 But if you go ahead and make sure, okay, I got a will in place. I'm going to investigate and find out and make sure Dave's right about life insurance.
I'm going to

Speaker 1 say this is our wealth building plan. We're going to continue to pay off the house.
We're going to do this and this and this. And, you know,

Speaker 1 the more detail, it sounds ridiculous, but the more detail you say, given this diagnosis, this is the exact plan.

Speaker 1 Once that detail is in place,

Speaker 1 it gives you just like a release, you know, a sense of peace. But having the medical be chaotic and the financial future being chaotic simultaneously is almost more than some folk can bear.

Speaker 1 So I'm going to encourage you to do what, continue the journey you started with this phone call, and that is really detail out exactly what, how, what is your version of the baby steps facing this rare

Speaker 1 form of muscular

Speaker 1 dystrophy?

Speaker 1 Because it's almost chronic in that it's not, it's not a a one-year or two-year diagnosis it's a 15-year or 20-year diagnosis right and so today it is anyway it may change next week and it may change for the better next week so facts are your friends details in the financial arena are not you being cold

Speaker 1 they're giving your wife peace and you peace and then you can turn back around and concentrate on being well

Speaker 1 does that make any sense at all

Speaker 2 No, it totally does. And

Speaker 2 just hearing about this, we found out in March. And like you said, it's about,

Speaker 2 you know, emotionally trying to register it and then trying to figure out what the facts are. And I feel like we're at that place right now.

Speaker 2 And now I'm going, oh, wait, I have to plan about the future now and figure that out, which is why, like you said, I called.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and

Speaker 1 it's a different future than it was in March. And truthfully, there may be

Speaker 1 a treatment that comes a year from now, you know, and then the thing changes again because you're not going to stop studying this. You're living it, you know.

Speaker 3 Aaron, do you guys know medical bills?

Speaker 3 Have they given you guys any direction? Like your insurance, do you guys know financially at all what the costs will be at certain stages of this?

Speaker 2 We do not.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 2 it's because it's

Speaker 1 so rare.

Speaker 2 There's still, I mean, it's just being discovered sort of thing. So

Speaker 2 I'm in a research study right now that's putting me in one to hopefully

Speaker 2 take care of some of the medical bills, but also figure what this thing out and how it does in the long term, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah. Well, I can tell you this, you know, continuing a big old pile of money in your 401k and a paid-for house is still going to help the situation.
So that part didn't really change, right?

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 1 it's if you live with this

Speaker 1 deterioration and disability,

Speaker 1 or you don't, and you leave her with the situation, either way, a big old pile of money in a paid-for-house ain't going to be bad, right?

Speaker 1 True. So, you know, we could keep working four and six, you know.

Speaker 1 The only question is in between, like Rachel's saying, do we need to pile up some cash for interim treatments or treat, you know, we're going to fly to Czechoslovakia because there's a treatment there that's not covered by insurance.

Speaker 1 Heck, I'm going, man. Heck, we're paying off the house.
Get on an airplane. Let's go.
You know, and we'll redistribute that cash in a different way

Speaker 1 out of the budget. And of course, you're going to anticipate your income changing potentially as well as you go along.
And so all of that goes with it. But just, you know,

Speaker 1 keep adjusting the plan. But the more detail the plan is, the more peace she's going to have, you're going to have.

Speaker 1 And then you can turn your energy around to fighting the disease instead of fighting the money.

Speaker 1 And that's what people that are like with a cancer diagnosis are doing as well. So, man, I'm so sorry.
And Aaron, we're here for you. We're not going anywhere.
If you need something, you call anytime.

Speaker 1 We'll, we'll, and tell your wife to call if you, for some reason, aren't able to get on the phone. We'll help any way we can.
Thanks for calling, man. I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage. Stephanie is with us.
Hi, Stephanie. How are you?

Speaker 5 Hi, I'm good, Dave and Rachel. How are you both?

Speaker 1 We're honored to have you. Where do you live?

Speaker 5 I am

Speaker 5 about 25 minutes away from Boston, Massachusetts.

Speaker 1 Awesome. How much debt have you paid off?

Speaker 5 About $105,000.

Speaker 1 Way to go, kiddo. Excellent.
How long did this take you?

Speaker 5 Three years and eight months.

Speaker 1 Wow. And your range of income during that time?

Speaker 5 So I started at about $60,000 and I ended at $115,000.

Speaker 1 Excellent.

Speaker 1 And what do you do for a living?

Speaker 5 So I work for a hospital manager in IT.

Speaker 1 Good for you. Okay, cool.
And what kind of debt was $105,000?

Speaker 5 So it was everything, Dave. About $360,000, $60 was medical.
I had $3,100 in a car loan,

Speaker 5 $6,200 personal loan, $7,000 in credit card debt, and the biggest was my student loans. It was about $88,000.

Speaker 1 Wow. Okay, very cool.
Okay, tell us your story. What happened three years and eight months ago that put you on this journey?

Speaker 5 So I've been living with that since I was 18. So from the first time I got a credit card, I just...

Speaker 1 How old are you now? 36. Okay.

Speaker 5 So it took me 18 years to get here.

Speaker 5 But so 2018,

Speaker 5 like I said, I'd been struggling for many years.

Speaker 5 And, you know, I'd really have been praying and asking God to really help me because I never knew how to budget, just was out of control, didn't know what to do.

Speaker 5 So September 2018, I was home on maternity leave. I had my third child, and I was actually searching for sermons really to watch on YouTube.

Speaker 5 And then in my feed, it came, this couple video came up, and the title was, Dave Ramsey Ruined Our Lives. And so I never saw the couple before, never watched them ever, and I never heard your name.

Speaker 5 So, but it was a... pretty, you know, good-looking couple, sharp couple.
So I decided to watch.

Speaker 5 And they proceeded to say how, you know, they, from the time they started your program, they were getting out of debt.

Speaker 5 I mean, you know, selling things left and right, living on rice and beans, not going out, just, you know, making sacrifices to live the life that they wanted to live ultimately.

Speaker 5 And so I, you know, sat, and I believe it was divine connection. I believe God led me to that video.

Speaker 5 And so as I was watching, I said, wow, like they can do it. I can do it too.
So I started searching for you on YouTube.

Speaker 5 At that time, I just saw a lot of the short videos, the seven to ten minute clips. I didn't know you had a show,

Speaker 5 but I just started digging into those, learned about the seven baby steps. I learned about just what you teach, what you practice, and it all made sense.

Speaker 5 Like I said, I was on maternity leave, so I only had, I was making half of my income at the time because I was just using my vacation time to try and spread the time out.

Speaker 5 So I downloaded the Ever Dollar app, and I couldn't really start the budget until October. That's when I went back to work.
But I had the budget in place.

Speaker 5 I listened to Rachel Cruz and all the material that you guys put out there and tried to do my budget as best I could.

Speaker 5 And so once I went back to work in October, my budget was set and I pretty much hit the ground running.

Speaker 5 I initially started out. I was picking up Instacart shifts,

Speaker 5 even with sometimes my little kids in the car, my daughter.

Speaker 5 I would work full-time during the day and I picked up a temp agency job

Speaker 5 at the evening. So we were home.
It was during COVID. So

Speaker 5 kids running around in the background, but I'm doing a temp agency job. And I I also, you know, delivered pizza for Domino's, you know, a short while.
Fast forward to 2020, December 2020.

Speaker 5 I interviewed and got a position at another hospital. So that jumped me up in my pay,

Speaker 5 about $20,000. And the next year, 2021, about November, I got a promotion to manager.
So, and that jumped me up as well. So that has been my journey up, you know, through 2018 to

Speaker 1 now.

Speaker 1 You work your tail off, kiddo.

Speaker 5 I was. And you know what? I believed in the vision.
I believed what you taught.

Speaker 5 And I, from that first paying off that first credit card, just seeing how free, you know, how a little bit of, you know, space in my budget. And I said, wow, this really works.

Speaker 5 And I was determined, regardless of what people said, I was determined that I was going to do it, not just for myself and my kids, to leave a legacy. And that's really why I kept going.

Speaker 1 Wow. Congratulations.
That's a big deal. I'm very proud of you.

Speaker 3 That's a big deal. I mean, you know, we get all different types of debt-free screams on the stage and we celebrate them all.

Speaker 3 But you doing this with little ones over three years, working all these shifts. I mean, you've done the hard work.
You've done it. Congratulations.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 Incredible. Absolutely incredible.
Beautiful. What do you tell people the secret to getting out of debt is? It sounds like seven extra jobs.
Yeah.

Speaker 5 Well, and perseverance, but I think the biggest thing is a

Speaker 5 mindset change.

Speaker 5 You know, people that I talk to and I let them, I share my journey with, they're happy for me. But, you know, a lot of what I hear is, you know, you'll never be out of debt.

Speaker 5 You're always going to have debt.

Speaker 5 And by soaking myself into your show, you know, listening, watching all the debt-free screams that have come across the stage, you know, watching the Everyday Millionaire, you know, like listening to all these people that have done it and they live debt-free, it is possible.

Speaker 5 So I think it requires a mindset shift, you know, being around different people, listening, but... realizing that it is possible, but also perseverance.
I mean, regardless of what comes.

Speaker 5 I mean, I had life happen during those three and, you know, eight months. So, but it's perseverance, being willing to persevere through and trusting God in the process.
Yeah.

Speaker 5 Because once you've committed to it, he will see you through the end.

Speaker 1 Amen. Amen.
Well done. Very, very, very well done.
Who are your biggest cheerleaders?

Speaker 5 I would say a little bit of everybody. I mean, my mom is here.
My family, they all supported me through this journey.

Speaker 5 My coworkers at work, at the time when I could pick up on call shifts, they would know I was on this journey. And so they would, you know, help me out, you know, send me there on-call shifts.

Speaker 5 But I think the biggest one is my oldest daughter.

Speaker 5 During COVID, she was my babysitter. When I had to pick up the shifts, she was my babysitter.
And she sacrificed a lot, but she knew what we were after. She knew the reason why we sacrificed.

Speaker 5 And she was willing to delay gratification for a season so that we could be here today, you know, and become debt-free.

Speaker 5 So I would say she's my biggest out of everyone, my biggest supporter, my biggest cheerleader.

Speaker 1 Was it worth it?

Speaker 5 Absolutely.

Speaker 1 Absolutely. How's it feel to be free?

Speaker 5 Amazing. I cash flowed this trip here.
It wasn't cheap,

Speaker 5 but I didn't stress the money's there.

Speaker 5 It's absolutely amazing. And

Speaker 5 I wouldn't trade anything for the world. I would do it again if I had to.

Speaker 1 And you don't have any payments. That's the beauty of it.
You know, making $115,000, $120,000 a year and the ability to pick up and do whatever you need to do because you've proven that to yourself.

Speaker 1 Absolutely. And to your kids.
So your kids got to witness a warrior princess. That's beautiful.
Amen. Yeah, you got after it, kiddo.
You really got after it. Well done.

Speaker 1 Very, very well done. Congratulations.

Speaker 3 You're a good mom.

Speaker 1 Absolutely. You're a good mom.
We got a copy of Baby Steps Millionaires for you. That is definitely the next chapter in your story.
You are on your way. Thank you.

Speaker 1 And a copy of the Total Money Makeover for you to give away to someone who was inspired by your story that you run into, because I'm sure you've talked about it some.

Speaker 1 And, of course, Financial Peace University, we want you to go through the class. We just launched the new videos, the best class we've ever had at Financial Peace right now available.

Speaker 1 So one-year membership will give you that as well. If you've been through it and you want to give it away, that's fine.
We're happy to have you

Speaker 1 pass it on however you want to do it. It's very, very good.
All right, bring the kiddos up and tell us their names and ages.

Speaker 5 So I have Sanaya. Sinaya is 15 years old.
Emmanuela, she is five. And my youngest one, Atara, she's three years old.

Speaker 1 All right. Love it.
Beautiful. Very, very, very well done.
All right, Stephanie from Boston, Mass. Three years and eight months to pay off 105,063 jobs.
I'm exaggerating a tiny bit, but not much.

Speaker 1 And some help from the teenage daughter. That's just beautiful.
60 to 115,000 income during that time. Count it down.
Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one.
We're debt-free.

Speaker 1 Well

Speaker 1 done.

Speaker 1 Oh man.

Speaker 1 Oh man.

Speaker 5 She made me tear up.

Speaker 1 She gets it.

Speaker 1 She gets it and she pushed it through. That's beautiful.
Very, very well done.

Speaker 1 That lady, that lady's a force of nature right there, man. That's what you have to do.

Speaker 1 And she said it beautifully. What's it take? It takes a mindset change.

Speaker 3 I know, I know. And you have the, and you know it's not forever.

Speaker 1 It's a mindset change.

Speaker 3 But in those moments and those nights, it's hard to leave. And she still did.

Speaker 1 I'm going to live like no one else so that later I can live and give like no one else. This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 The best way to make the most of your money is to make your money do what you want it to do instead of wondering where it went. Tell your money what to do instead of wondering where it went.

Speaker 1 Most people in this life

Speaker 1 live

Speaker 1 reactively.

Speaker 1 But people who are proactive, who happen to things intentionally, are the ones that we call successful people.

Speaker 1 In the wealth-building world, if you're going to happen to your money, you do that with a budget. And every dollar is the budget that'll help you do it.

Speaker 1 It's the app that's free in the App Store and Google Play. Download every dollar.
Get the premium version while you're at it.

Speaker 1 and start working with your spouse, working the baby steps, working paycheck planning. There's all kinds of tools inside this thing.

Speaker 1 They're going to help you do the Ramsey system more efficiently, and it really sets it up to win. Go to everydollar.com or download the Every Dollar app for free in the App Store or Google Play today.

Speaker 1 Dorothy is with us in Fort Myers, Florida. Hi, Dorothy.
How are you?

Speaker 2 Hi, David. Hi, Rachel.
Thank you for taking my call. And I'm in Naples, just so you know.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Cool. How can we help today?

Speaker 2 Well, I unfortunately am a widow. My husband committed suicide last year.

Speaker 1 Oh, my gosh. Sorry.

Speaker 2 And I would really appreciate it if you'd let me borrow your Magoo glasses to see my way through my mess.

Speaker 1 I'm so sorry. Wow.
Me too.

Speaker 2 Me too. It was certainly something that we weren't expecting.

Speaker 2 And now I'm, you know, I have a lot of debt and I want to get rid of it. And I have some very specific questions for you.

Speaker 2 One of them is, I have

Speaker 2 an IRA that has some money in it that was part of his, you know, what the drop is?

Speaker 1 Have you heard of that term? How much is in the IRA?

Speaker 2 It's not a lot. It's about 40 grand.

Speaker 1 About 40 grand.

Speaker 2 And it's not invested in anything that's earning us and earning me anything.

Speaker 1 How old are you?

Speaker 2 I'm 57.

Speaker 1 Okay. And what is your career?

Speaker 2 I don't have one. My husband wanted me to be his playmate when he retired.

Speaker 2 And we had a granddaughter who was born with some complications. And so I stopped working to help, you know, get her through that.
And he just did want me to go back to work. So I didn't.

Speaker 2 And so we played and we accumulated a lot of stuff. And I know I can sell that stuff to get into a much better financial situation.
And it's just taken some time to kind of sort through.

Speaker 1 Sorry.

Speaker 2 To kind of sort through everything. And I wasn't expecting to get emotional.

Speaker 2 Sort through everything and get some clarity in all of it, you know.

Speaker 2 So I know I need to get a job. I do know that.
And I want one. And I've already started looking for one.

Speaker 2 And it's kind of hard not knowing what to do because I have no technical skills whatsoever because I've been out of work for so long.

Speaker 2 I'm a personal person, so I know, you know, like customer service and things of that nature, I should do pretty well at.

Speaker 2 So I plan on doing that right away, and I plan on selling several assets right away.

Speaker 2 It's just taking me some time to get there.

Speaker 2 I already downloaded your Every Dollar app, and so I'm, you know, working with that right now.

Speaker 1 What is the most pressing thing you have today that we can help you with?

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 I still have our two trucks that I have payments on,

Speaker 2 and I have some credit card debt.

Speaker 2 And that was one of the questions I wanted to ask.

Speaker 1 Do you have any cash other than this 40K?

Speaker 2 No, sir.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 How are you paying light bill and food bill and all that?

Speaker 2 His pension.

Speaker 3 I get it.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And that's supposed to be a payment.

Speaker 1 How much is his pension?

Speaker 2 A year or monthly.

Speaker 2 Monthly, it's just under $5,500, and for annual, it's like $65,900.

Speaker 1 And how much is your house payment?

Speaker 2 My house payment is $1,900.

Speaker 1 I buy a lot of $20,000. And how long does the pension last?

Speaker 2 The pension is going to end in less than five years.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Good. So we've got a really good plan here.
You can survive monthly. You can survive and have been monthly on the 55 with the every dollar budget.
That's very possible. We may or may not use the 40.

Speaker 1 We'll see. Prefer to wait till after 59 if if we can.

Speaker 1 And you're going to get rid of the truck payments by getting rid of the trucks and getting you a car you can afford. And you're going to start the next chapter of your life.
You're a wee 57-year-old.

Speaker 1 You have a lot left.

Speaker 1 A lot left. This is your chapter two.
This is act two.

Speaker 1 After the curtain comes back up, we took a bow. It's an encore.
Didn't turn out like we thought it was going to.

Speaker 1 The story takes a twist, a rather tragic turn, and the heroine steps forward with her shield and her sword. Okay?

Speaker 2 Thank you. Thank you.

Speaker 1 That's you. That's where you're going.

Speaker 1 And so what's going to happen is three years from today, you're going to be booming as the biggest real estate agent in Naples or whatever it is you choose to do. Okay.

Speaker 1 And you're going to be laughing about this little tiny pension, but it survived you. It sustained you when it should have, and that was good.
But it's certainly not your future. You are your future.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Right?

Speaker 1 mathematically you are emotionally you are spiritually you are

Speaker 1 yes financially you definitely are

Speaker 1 so you're the you're the secret sauce to the equation and you're up to it you can do it i can tell by talking to you i mean you're you're you're hurting but any normal human would be hurting with what you've gone through honey but um i i think there's a lot going on inside dorothy so

Speaker 3 how much debt dorothy you you mentioned that you know you guys kind of just traveled and and bought stuff and racked up some debt i'm just curious, what all is the debt?

Speaker 3 How much credit card debt is it?

Speaker 2 I have about

Speaker 2 $18,306.38.

Speaker 3 Okay. And what other debt is there?

Speaker 2 I have the house is just a little over $100,000. That'll be under $100,000 after September's payment.

Speaker 2 I have two trucks totaling $21,000.

Speaker 2 And an RV that's at $15,000.

Speaker 1 So the trucks and the RV are going to get you a reasonable reasonable car.

Speaker 3 But that's it, right? Okay.

Speaker 1 And then we're going to

Speaker 1 plow through the credit cards. Is there anything else?

Speaker 2 The credit card,

Speaker 2 no. I mean, just monthly payments, of course.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 All right. Here's what we're going to do, okay? I'm going to load you up with homework.
Are you ready to go to school?

Speaker 1 Yes, sir. All right.

Speaker 2 Can I ask you one more quick question? Yes, ma'am.

Speaker 2 I'll wait till you're done and then maybe I'll go.

Speaker 1 Oh, you go ahead. Go ahead.
Go right now. Well,

Speaker 2 I had already taken one of the credit cards and put it on a 0% for 18 months.

Speaker 2 And I'm plugging away at that one. The other one has an interest rate.
It's the one that's only at $6,000.

Speaker 2 Would it behoove me to transfer that to a 0% for 18 months?

Speaker 1 It doesn't matter. You can if you want.
You can if you want, but that's not your problem.

Speaker 1 Your problem is getting the income up and having your future lined out. And once you see that, then you can turn up the heat and just get rid of them.

Speaker 1 And the interest rate doesn't matter when you're paying aggressively on them. So if you want to, it's okay.
But it's not really the answer to your situation at all. So hold on.

Speaker 1 Christian's going to pick up. We're going to put you into Financial Peace University.
We're going to provide you with a financial coach, all as our gift. Okay?

Speaker 1 We're people of the book, and the book instructs us to take care of widows and orphans. And we will do that today.
Okay? So you're going to get that. I'm also going to send you Ken Coleman's book,

Speaker 1 Find the Work You're Wired to Do. It has in it an assessment.
I want you to take the assessment. I want you to start the process of

Speaker 1 dreaming about what the new future looks like for Dorothy. What is it you want to be when you grow up? You're just a wee 57-year-old.
Just a tiny little one. You can do it.
You can do it.

Speaker 3 Dorothy, and I'm so proud of you. Can we just say, too, you haven't messed anything up.
When people go through tragedy, we even tell them just to pause

Speaker 3 for even a year, right? So like you're not behind all of it. I know it probably feels very overwhelming, but you've done the right thing.
Hey guys,

Speaker 1 I'm sorry. If you want to hear the next 40 minutes of the show, it's on the Ramsey app, the Ramsey Network app.
So you can download that for free in the App Store or Google Play.

Speaker 1 Make sure you jump over and get it there. If you want to listen to all three hours or watch all three hours, you can always do that on the Ramsey Network app.
It's completely free.

Speaker 1 Doesn't cost you a thing.

Speaker 1 So the last 40 minutes of the show now, if you're on talk radio, it's still there, right where it always has been.

Speaker 1 But if you're on podcast or YouTube, it's on the the Ramsey Network app, in the App Store, or Google Play. It's completely free.
This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 What up, what up? It's Dr.

Speaker 6 John Deloney from the Dr. John Deloney Show with some amazing news.
The latest episode of United States of Anxiety is available right now exclusively on the Ramsey Network app.

Speaker 6 This docu-series follows real people from my show as they embark on a 90-day journey to transform their lives, and I personally walk alongside them every step of the way.

Speaker 6 Okay, now here's a sneak peek of what the new episode is all about. And don't forget to click the link in the show notes to download the app.

Speaker 1 What's up, Kelsey?

Speaker 2 So I've lived with crippling anxiety for as long as I can remember. How do I stop it from constantly coming up in different areas of my life?

Speaker 6 What does crippling anxiety mean?

Speaker 4 Paint me a picture of that.

Speaker 6 All right, so you ready to jump in?

Speaker 2 I'm ready to jump in.

Speaker 4 So we're gonna check in with Kelsey 30 days, 60 days, 90 days.

Speaker 3 I cannot even function because I'm just crying.

Speaker 3 My mom left us when I was four.

Speaker 2 I truly felt like for a while I had no family.

Speaker 4 She's experiencing things that really hurt a long time ago.

Speaker 1 Tell me about this boy.

Speaker 2 He triggers me a lot.

Speaker 3 Scared of losing Paul, scared of doing the wrong thing, scared of not being enough.

Speaker 4 It just feels like it would be exhausting to be Kelsey.

Speaker 6 It is.

Speaker 4 Whenever somebody's playing whack-a-mole with their anxiety, when it just keeps moving, that tells me the underlying system's not okay.

Speaker 3 How do I get my inner child out of this relationship? Because I feel like she's running the show.

Speaker 4 One of two people that's supposed to never leave took off.

Speaker 1 I was this.

Speaker 1 I was this burden. New burden.
That's right.

Speaker 4 To the one person

Speaker 4 who should carry it. All of it.
Did you ever tell that little girl that it wasn't her fault?

Speaker 4 I don't know what to do.

Speaker 4 You either have to choose to let this guy love you, or you got to choose to let this guy go.