Stop Letting Money Conflicts Tear Your Relationships Apart

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Open phones this hour at 888-825-5225.
Multiple number one best-selling author and Ramsey personality, Rachel Cruz. My daughter is my co-host today.
Open phones here. You jump in.
We'll talk about your life and your money. Victor is with us in Irvine, California.
Hi, Victor. How are you? I'm doing well, Dave.
How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Hi.
So three years ago, me and my wife was buying a life insurance policy from our father-in-law. We both make a pretty good income, but essentially we're like three years in now.
I know we've maxed out our 401k, our Roth IRA, but I was talking to my father-in-law and he essentially said it's like a good tax-free investment that we can do with our custom whole life policy. and since we're already maxed out our 401k and our rock IRA

and we even

bought a house recently

we're just not sure if that's like the best way moving forward to put our money in at least with our extra money. So that's our situation.
Um, Victor, you've been married three years, you said? Yeah, we've been married for about three years, yeah. Okay.
So you're in your mid-20s, I assume. Yeah, me and my wife are both 27, so we got married around 24.
Okay. Well, I have to give you full disclosure here, okay? I have been trashing whole life policies and people who sell them for 30 years as being one of the biggest possible ripoffs in the financial world.
So if you say Dave Ramsey to your father-in-law, his face is going to melt off. I know.
I was afraid of bringing that up to him.

I would not suggest you do that.

Uncle Dave would suggest you don't do that to yourself with your father-in-law.

I don't think there's anything to be gained by that.

So, you know, so basically he, you know,

you have a guy in your life that loves you and that

believes in these products. You have a guy on the radio that loves you and says these products are crap.
And so now you've got to decide as a grown man with your grown wife, uh, what you guys are going to do and then how to navigate that decision. I would never recommend that you buy something or do something when you're a grown person because your parents said you had to, to keep them happy.
I would not do that, okay? But I would also not recommend that you damage your relationship with your wife's father. I would want you to be kind and honoring and really avoid an argument if I were you.
Okay. I have family members, for instance, that I've been married for 41 years, Victor.
I have family members that vote the wrong way. Oh my gosh.
They don't know how to vote. They pick the wrong party and they're just dumb about it.
And I love them anyway. I love them anyway.
We have family members that have credit cards and that. And I don't, I don't, I don't create at Thanksgiving a political argument with people who aren't going to change their minds that I love.
Or a financial i love or a financial argument i i don't well i don't give financial advice for people who don't ask for it and that includes everyone family included people who ask i will tell you so for victor talk for victor why you don't like whole life insurance as an investment i i just well he knows he already knows why i don't like it, don't you? I know that you mentioned that like the return over like 30 years is minimal. Yeah, it is.
And when you die, when you die, the money that you have in there is gone. They only pay the face amount.
And there is no such thing as a whole life policy that is tax free if it actually got a rate of return. It is tax-free because the only way you can get your money out is to borrow your own money.
And, honey, if you go over at the bank and borrow money, they don't charge you taxes on that either. So, of course, it's tax-free.
But it is not a good tax dodge. It is not a good investment.
It is not a good product. But now you can research a bazillion things that we have said about that, and then you've still got this deep, horrible relational problem.
And I would recommend that you just be kind. And if you decide to not use this product which of course is my recommendation i would recommend you don't get into an argument with your father-in-law about it i would just say you know we've looked at it and for us we've decided to go another direction and we sure hope adult to, that you'll just respect our decision, even though you think I'm wrong, and I want you to respect my decision.
And so, you know, I have a friend who's so stupid that the other day he leased a car, and he's even dumber than that. He drove the car to my house to show it to me, okay? But I didn't him about car leases i just went hey my friend has a nice car i'm going to be happy for him and he's happy about his car and he didn't ask my opinion and so i'm not going to just go adult to adult i'm going to celebrate his adult decision even though he did a nice thing in a dumb way you know right i mean i can still be friends with the guy a hundred percent so i want anything i want you to be kind to your even yeah even yeah i think the biggest thing is going to be it could be i don't mean i don't know your father-in-law but if this is what he does for a living it's a shot to the ego i mean like yeah right i mean i mean if he believes in it so much like if what we teach you believe so much that if we can't you know I mean it's a hard it would be a hard thing to say they're going to go a different direction from what I not just believe but the work I do so just be prepared for that and you and your wife need to have a lot of conversations Victor and you guys really got to be in this yeah and just really dive in and you guys have to say okay what's best for us and find the facts because the facts is what's going to prove it to you victor and you both have to be on that same page and say okay this is what we're doing and i i totally agree with you keep it minimal i mean like just say hey i think we're gonna pass um your wife has to be able to just look at her dad and which will be hard a smile and say i love you and we're going a different direction yeah you know dave so i love you and we're going different but i'm going a different direction all right that's the thing you're announcing something on the air no but it's yeah that this is where the yeah the relational factor of it is just it can be messy yeah but but it's also a great practice victor for you and your wife you've got to learn to do this anyway that's right over other things yes because you know they're they're otherwise otherwise you know they're gonna interfere when you get ready to name your first child they're going to interfere when you get ready to buy your first house they all do it out of love and and no they do it out of love they do it out of love don't pet me i don't interfere in you i don't interfere in your kids name that would be mimi that does we don't tell our kids names until they were born because you get a mimi eye roll we hand the bb to the grandparent and we say don't name a moonbeam this is it's all i request no hippie names that's all i request this is the ramsey show you know one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies and there's too little life insurance or none at all.
Grieving families are suddenly left behind scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet. I also discovered that there are a lot of rip-offs in the life insurance world, like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity.
What you need is level term life insurance, usually 10 to 12 times your income, which is the smartest, most affordable way to protect your family. The key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for you, not for the insurance company.
This is exactly what my friend Jeff Zander and his team at Zander Insurance are all about. They shop the term life companies to find you the best options, and they've been around for over 95 years.
So you know they'll be there when you need them. Zander is the real deal, and that's why they've handled all my personal insurance for over 25 years.

I trust them, and you can too.

Visit Xander.com for instant online quotes, or for a more personal touch,

give them a call at 800-356-4282.

Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today.

Linda's in Pittsburgh.

Hi, Linda.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, how are you? Better than I deserve.
What's up? Hey, we, my husband and I, are wondering how he can acquire his portion of the will that his mother wrote. So she passed away in 2006 and wrote a will giving the family home to her children.
And his brother has lived in the house all of his life and still lives there. Was the will probated? The will was probated by their stepdad in 2007.
Okay. She passed away in 2006.
And, um, but okay. And so the stepdad, wait a minute, the stepdad had nothing to do with the house and the will, right? Yes.
It was just one of those where it was he had the right to occupy during his lifetime. The brother or the stepdad? The stepdad.
Okay, so he had a life estate, and the will left the property to your husband, his brother, and whatever other siblings. And a sister.
Okay, was the property retitled at that time? Did Pennsylvania probate require you all to retitle it and put everybody's name on it? The house is in Colorado. Oh.
And at the time of probate, it was retitled to all three siblings. Okay.
So you each own a third, undivided interest it's called, okay? Right? Uh-huh. Okay, is sister still alive? No, she lost her battle with depression in 2017.
I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Yes.
And did she have heirs? No, she did not. Okay, so I would suppose that your husband and his brother are now equal owners then.
You would have to seek an attorney's advice to be 100% sure, but let's play this through. That's what it sounds like.
It sounds like they're now equal owners, okay? And he doesn't have to do anything to acquire it. It already has his name on it.
The death of his sister left half of hers to him and half of it to his brother and so now the two of them are 50 50 okay it's all his name's on the title if it was the property if the property were sold he would get 50 percent okay okay so now what are y'all wanting to do Who? So he had, after probably, it was almost two years after the stepfather passed away, he approached his brother about either buying him out or selling the home. And he said, absolutely not.
I have no interest in selling the home and I'm not going to buy you out. Okay.
Who lives in it?

His brother.

Okay.

He has lived in it all his life.

Okay.

So he's living there for free?

Yes.

Okay.

He has a roommate there that pays him rent.

Okay.

And there's a little size piece of your house.

Well, here's the thing.

If you want to stir it up and cause this to come to an end, because this is not a fair situation. This is unjust.
Agreed? Agreed. Okay.
Then your husband, does he have any relationship left with his brother at all? Well, they love each other. It's just that there's a mountain in the middle.
I didn't ask that. I asked if they had a relationship.
There's a mountain in the middle. What? I said they love each other.
There's this mountain in the middle. The house.
Yeah. Yes.
Well, it depends on how much your husband wants to invest in this. But if we want to try to save the relationship, you get on an airplane, and he flies out there, and he sits down with his brother, and he says, okay, you living here for free is done.
I'm a 50% owner in this, and you can't live here for free anymore. You have to move out.
I'm demanding that. Or we have to sell the house or you have to buy me out.
Now you decide which one you want to do. You want to move out and we rent it and we split the rents that we collect or do you want to buy me out or whatever.
I'll give you a deal if you want to buy me out. But you sitting here and me getting nothing and you living here for free ends.
I'm done. I love you.
I hate what you're doing to me. It's nasty and it's wrong and it's unjust.
And he says that to him in person to his face. Okay.
And then if the brother goes, well, I'm not going to do that. You say, yes, you are.
Because if you do not, I'm going to hire an attorney and I'm going to sue in circuit court to have this partnership disbanded. And the court is going to force the sale of the house to give me my half.
And it's going to cost me five or $10,000. And you're probably never going to speak to me again, but I'm at the point that I'm tired of you screwing me over.
This is how you have to handle it if you're going to handle it. Otherwise, you just got to accept it and go on.
And then you have to hire an attorney, and the judge will demand that you sell the house to liquidate the estate. And they'll sell the house, and the brother will get half the money, and you'll get half the money.
And liquidating the estate is selling the house, correct?

Do what?

I said liquidating the estate is selling the house, correct?

Yeah, you sell the house.

Okay.

Sell the house, and you get your half.

Now, or we can have the house appraised,

and at 80%, 80 cents on the dollar of the appraisal,

I'll take my half.

I'll give you a 20% discount if you want to buy me out.

How much is the house worth, Linda?

From what we can tell, it's probably right around $400,000.

Yeah.

This is just wrong.

And your brother-in-law's a leech.

He's a parasite.

Mm-hmm.

And you're tired of it. That's why you called.

Is your husband as tired

of it as you are or is he just going to let this go on?

Oh no, he's as tired

of it as I am. He's just a super

nice guy.

If he wants to try to be

super kind to his brother

he can fly out there and try to do this very calmly and just say, this is over. Okay? You're going to buy me out or the judge is going to force the sale of the house because when I leave this conversation, if we're not in agreement, I'm going to contact an attorney and we're going to court and the house is going to be sold because you living here for free is not right, and it's not fair.
You've been taking advantage of me, and I can't let you do that anymore even though I love you. That's wrong.
And if you want to buy me out, I'll give you a discount on the appraisal. But I own 50%, you own 50%, and you can't live here free anymore.
That's over. Fly it, it take a plane ticket invest a plane ticket into the relationship try to do it nice and see if you can get him to move off he he may just think that your brother your my brother's a nice guy he's never going to do anything and he might be right talking about your husband right yes i know i know he sees your husband as a target and he's using it he sees he thinks your husband's not gonna do anything yeah and so if your husband doesn't want to do anything it's okay i don't care if you want if you want to just let this go on i'm not mad about it it doesn't matter but if you're going to do it that's how you do it i would sell it to him at a discount because if you sell it you're going to pay it, that's how you do it.
I would sell it to him at a discount. Because if you sell it, you're going to pay expenses anyway, right? Right.
And so if it's worth $400,000, I'll sell you my $200,000 at 80%, which is $160,000. That's a great deal.
You have 30 days to get me my money. If you do not get me my money in 30 days, I am going to begin a court proceeding that's going to force the sale of the house.
And that's the end of the discussion, and then just go hire a lawyer and do it. And it'll take a dadgum year.
And it'll be $10,000 out of your pocket in legal fees. Is there a way to find a reputable attorney in Colorado? Sure.
That was our other thing. It's like, how do you find one there without, you know? Call one of our real estate endorsed local providers.
Jump online at Ramsey and find the real estate endorsed local providers. Tell them you need a good real estate attorney.
Okay. And they'll give you a recommendation.
Okay. That's the only way.
I mean, you've got to have somebody that you trust, and these are high-octane real estate agents that we endorse, and they'll know somebody that's a quality attorney that can litigate this. But I really wouldn't, you know, it may be that when you hire the attorney and you spend five hundred dollars and he has to he decides to send a letter to the brother that that wakes the brother up and then the brother does it because the brother's probably he's been living this way a long time he's probably not going to take the first he's not going to believe your husband that he's going to do anything because he's never done anything so he's suddenly a man of action that's going to be shocking to the brother this is the ramsey show rachel do you ever get these sketchy text messages that are like hey you need to update your address and verify so we can get you the package you didn't order yes i have george sketchy and never trust him and that's why we Me.
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Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality. My daughter is my co-host today.
Open phones at 888-825-5225. Ashley is with us in Charlotte, North Carolina.
Hi, Ashley. How are you? Hey, Dave.
Oh, my gosh. I'm so excited to talk to you guys.
You, too. What's up, kiddo? So my husband and I are looking into maybe starting a new business.
We are totally debt-free with a paid-for house. We have one year of emergency funds saved up.
Wow. Nice.
Yeah, we've been following you and doing you for seven years since we got married. And so we just got debt free not too long ago and paid our house off about a month ago.
Oh, wow. Congratulations, Ashley.
Way to go. Thank you.
So we are, I love food. I love making food.
People really seem to like respond well and I post things on Facebook, sharing things, and they have actually come to us wanting us to maybe start a food truck or, like, a cafe of some kind. We talked to our CPA, and he was leaning more towards a food truck.
He said that, like, the overhead was less. They were less likely to, like, not go under because of all the overhead.
But my concern with the food truck, we have been looking into them, is of course it would still be considered a depreciating asset, correct? Even if we paid cash and saved up for it, it's still depreciating versus a brick and mortar. I, if we don't own it, we're still paying rent.
So I just didn't know if you were winged one way or the other. I would not decide my business model based on either one of those things or based on a CPA's advice.
Okay. You need to decide your business model on what you want, your dream is.
What do you want to operate? Do you want to operate a food food truck do you want to operate a brick and mortar and then let's figure out how to pay for it and how to make the money to how to make it profitable right and is there another is there another in-between step like uh start catering as a start and start to build up your customer base from catering. I know several excellent chefs that have big operations now that started as catering.
Gotcha. And what's your end goal, Ashley? Do you want to be a restaurant owner? Yeah.
Is there a big dream or is it more just a passion of yours and you love it and it's something to do on the side that's really fun? I've always wanted to be more of a chef, like the food part of it is more like my dream and passion. My husband was in the food industry for a while and he actually was the business side of it.
So as far as that, I think the brick and mortar having like a small cafe, I'm thinking something kind of small scale of like the Cracker Barrel.

I'd love to have like a little store inside and be able to combine healthy,

like whole food, plant-based foods with more like regular foods,

like a blend of the two.

So people that my husband eats burgers and fries and steak.

I think the only reason you're considering a food truck is it doesn't sound congruent with this dream. Gotcha.
The cafe sounds congruent with the dream. It does, yeah.
Now that you've talked me through that, it does, yeah. Yeah.
It just feels like it the way you say it out loud. And here's the thing.
Your CPA is right about one thing. Restaurants have a higher failure rate than almost any other business category.
Really? Yeah. And so you've got to really lean in on the business operations part, not just the food quality.
Okay. If you make the best and healthiest food on the planet and no one is there, this isn't going to work.
Right. And so there's the marketing and the operations of this.
And what I would do is I probably would start as a catering operation and build a customer base and then look for a place to lease. Don't buy a piece of real estate and build you up, build you out a little restaurant and your leasehold improvements that you put in there will be a depreciating asset too.
And let me, I mean, but Ashley, like, I mean, and tell me if I'm wrong. I mean, but this could be hundreds of thousands of dollars.
I mean, this isn't just like a little thing. And I wonder if that's why the CPA was like, yeah, food truck is going to be way less expensive to get something going.
Not necessarily. I mean, if you found a location that the building was there and someone else that had something in there, had the kitchen in there, some of the commercial kitchen items are in there, you go in and renovate, you might spend less than a food truck to renovate it.
It's possible. And, you know, to upgrade it, get the fresh coat of paint and, you know, that'll work uh you could uh start with a food truck if you want to but i just the question is just what you want to do for the next five years of your life and i think you want to cook and i think he wants to run a restaurant and that doesn't sound like a food truck to me yeah um that's a different gig it's a different feel and even ashley like you know it uh we've been to a few places uh over the last probably two or three years people's homes for events and they have someone come in and cook and the you know in the and the chef guy brings his card around he's like next time you guys have a party i can do a i can do a dinner for eight of your friends or like you know whatever it is and i'm like if you get the right people in a room that taste your food, that then spread the word, right? Like there's ways to do it.
So the catering, if that's what you were meaning, but even coming in and cooking for friends and having them bring friends. And you know what I mean? You can start small just to get the word out about what you're doing because it sounds great.
But also I just know restaurant, it's just a big investment. Like when you hear hard business, when you hear brick and mortar, I mean, it's just, you're going to be having staff.
You're going to, if there's not already a kitchen, how much those appliances cost. I mean, it's just, it's a lot.
It's a lot. Not that it can't be done, Ashley, but it is, it is a, it's a feat to take on.
So it's you guys really drop a hundred thousand dollars in a truck and you can drop a hundred thousand dollars into your leasehold improvements either one real quickly make sure you've got the cash and that way then the only overhead you've got is your lease and your payroll and your food i just know there's like the i mean i just can think of probably three or four food trucks and i don't know that started as food trucks that ended up becoming restaurants because their brand was so big here in Nashville that they

opened up a restaurant because of that. So I'm just wondering, is that a, is that a, that's not a stair-stepping way? It can be, but then you got, you still got, you either continue to operate both or you've got this extra truck left over.
Yeah. Yeah.
So I, I just, I, the question is what she wants to do. I mean, I'm with you on the idea of starting some chefing and home stuff.

We were at a high-end charity event, your mom and I, the other day, and the food was incredible. She collects the chef's card, and he's helping us with the family reunion that's coming up.
So, I mean, you know, that's how you get the business out. But you can build a clientele based on that.
that. And then like we have friends that are chefs that do in-home stuff.
And if they ever open something, we'd be a customer. Right, right.
You know, so because we're a customer now, that kind of thing. Same kind of thing with this guy.
And that's a process there that you can go through. And pick up the book, The E-Myth by Gerber and read that.
He talks a lot about learning to work on your business, not just in your business, because being a chef is one of the pieces you have to do to operate a successful restaurant. The other pieces are business orientation that your husband has apparently, and I would lean into all of that.
I really would open phones at 888-825-5225 thank you for listening out there america we appreciate you if you are new to the ramsey show and you're trying to figure out what in the world are we talking about that snowballs baby steps what is. What is all this word, all these words,

all this vernacular mean? Well, you can go to RamseySolutions.com and click on the

get started button, the get started button. It is a free process to help you figure out

what you're looking for in this Ramsey journey and how we can best serve you on this Ramsey journey, where you are now and what your next steps are, all those kinds of things. So click Get Started at RamseySolutions.com, and we'll get you moving.
And, you know, you become acquainted with the baby steps and the debt snowball and all those kinds of things if you just keep listening to to the show, we'll keep talking about it and you'll start to understand what we're dealing

with and you'll look it up and you'll watch a YouTube video or some people go through,

if you want to do the best thing you can do, go through Financial Peace University and

that'll line you up and get you on the fast track to doing everything and getting control

of your money and changing everything.

So all of that to say that we're here to help you. So check it out at RamseySolutions.com.
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Today's question comes from Carter in New Hampshire. He says, my wife and I are avid listeners, but we don't share the same views financially.
I'm an analyzer when it comes to finances and it annoys her to no end. I have a two-year emergency fund and our home is paid off.
Together we earn $200,000 a year. She likes to spend and wants me to co-sign on a vehicle that's $80,000.
She has $10,000 in credit

card debt and she pays $15,000 each year for private school for our kids. If I mention anything about money, I'm the one who's wrong.
I wish I could say that we pay for vacations, recreational toys and trips, but these funds come from my checking account and she gets mad when I say that I pay for them. Is it okay to have an account together to pay bills and separate for spending accounts? I mean, I think you guys are disjointed completely when it comes to money.
I mean, obviously, this is like a pick and choose what we want to do together and what we don't. And I think the goal here is that you are a unified team with all of it, right? All of it together.
So the spending, the saving, where your kids are going to college or to school, where you guys, you know, what kind of cars you guys buy that you are in agreement together in those things. And so she's a spender.
So you guys are in a great position. You have no debt.
You have great emergency funds. So if she wants to go spend a little you can't be crazy and be like no you can't spend anything right and you sound a little bit you sound a little crazy to a degree carter uh that she just wants a little bit of freedom but then she on the other end is not what it sounds like a thousand dollar car and credit card debt that's crazy the same value system though is what's not being played out so i I think that's the issue, is that you guys are functioning not on the same value system, and so it's looking like a mess like this.
And the accounts, that doesn't fix it. I don't think they have a money problem.
I think they have a marriage problem. Right, but that's the problem, is people think, is it okay if we just have separate accounts? And what that does is it sweeps the one issue that you actually need to talk about under the rug.
It doesn't fix it. It actually continues to alienate you guys from each other.
So no, Carter, I would not do these separate accounts. I would force you guys to work out of one account because to your point, it's actually going to reveal other issues that are actually going on in your marriage.
Yeah. And I'm the one that's wrong.
She gets mad. she gets mad you know if you just change out the subject and it wasn't money and you're talking about something else and she acted that way or you acted that way you over analyzed everything which is what you're doing for sure and on the other hand then she's acting like a princess and stomping her foot with her little red face out until I get what I want.

And if you don't let me have what I want, then you're wrong. This is a marriage problem.
You guys desperately need to sit down with someone. Because here's the problem, okay? The probability that you have a high-quality marriage going forward using this system is close to zero.
you may or may not get divorced later, but you're definitely not having fun in your relationship. And the probability that you build wealth with both of you pulling at each other the whole time instead of pulling the wagon, no, almost zero.
One of the things we found when we study wealthy people is the data tells us that they work together with their spouse they're unified in their goals they're aiming at the same target and pulling the trigger together that's what we're doing and you can't drag along a princess she can't drag along someone whoanalyzes everything and has no fun left anywhere in life because you squeeze every dollar until George Washington screams.

And, no, you've got to have something in here.

We've got to have some flow to this, some relationship to this that's not in here.

And so, yeah, this desperately screams of a need for marriage counseling to me. For sure.
Open phones at 888-825-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525-525- me for sure open phones at 888-825-5225 Bo's with us in Las Vegas hi Bo how are you I'm doing good can you hear me absolutely what's up so I wanted to know if I can keep using my credit card and I know you're probably going to say say no, but I'm going to try anyway. You're right.
No. So, um, do your convincing though.
So give it your best shot, Bo. All right.
So this is a unique situation. I've never heard it on your show and I've been only listening for like five months.
Okay. So I have one credit card.
Um, I have a medical condition and my medication is insanely expensive.

And, uh,

I, have one credit card. Um, I have a medical condition and my medication is insanely expensive and, uh, I can't afford it until I hit my deductible, which my insurance will cover, but my deductible is $13,000.
And so the pharmaceutical company that makes it will reimburse me for it. And I've been doing this for two years years and so i use the credit card and i get cash back for the and then they reimburse me in a few days so is that something that i would keep it for why don't you just pay cash what was that why don't you pay cash i can i have but it's really expensive oh good you just pay cash? Why don't you pay cash? I can.

Why?

But it's really expensive.

Oh, good.

We'll pay cash.

And then you still get reimbursed.

It's really expensive either way, dude.

You're out the money either way, right?

Yeah, but I get the money back from the pharmaceutical company.

Okay, and so you use your cash, and then you get your cash right back.

I can do that, but I get another $300.

Oh, whoop-dee-doop-dee.

Okay.

You're going to sell your financial soul for $300?

Well, it's...

I never met a millionaire that said, you know, Dave, I made all my money on my airline miles.

It's not airline miles.

I know, it's $300.

$300 has never created a millionaire.

Okay.

Biscuit money.

I just don't make the way to do it. It's not airline miles.
I know. It's $300.
$300 has never created a millionaire.

Okay.

It's biscuit money.

I just don't make a lot of money, so it's really stressful. Well, then if $300 is a lot of money, then that's a different problem, isn't it?

You have an income problem then.

Yeah, I don't think I'm going to make more money.

Why?

It's not because I'm lazy. I'm not really worth a lot of money why i society would say i lack intelligence or education they're different you don't like intelligence you've carried on a very clear conversation in a high pressure situation you don't like and lack intelligence you've you've done a good job in this banter that we've had here, which was kind of fun.
So you're not lacking in intelligence. You might not have education.
That doesn't mean you're not able to make a living. What do you make? I make $26.35 an hour.
Okay. That's not super bad.
You were getting 40 hours? No, I work. Well, it varies, but seasonally, I work between 30 and 45 hours a week.
It depends on what time of year. What do you do? I work for a distribution center.
I operate. The simplest way I could say it is I manage robots.
Okay, are you 24? Are you 24? No, I'm 42. I'm sorry? 42.
42, okay. So here's the deal.
What I would do if I were you is I would say, hey, I can be anything I want to be. What are the steps to being one of those? And I could make twice as much money being one of those.
And I want to go start working towards being one of those. And it could be an apprentice program.
It could be a certification program. It could be a couple of classes at the local community college? I don't but you're capable of doing all of those things and so your issue is that you need to increase your income and have some career goals we'll help you with that i'm going to give you ken coleman's book um find the work you're wired to do i want to get the title right so i turned around looked at it um it's got in it the Get Clear Assessment.
I don't have to look at it because we've had over 100,000 people take this assessment. And it'll help you get clear on what your skills are.
And I want you to go work on that, Beau, to where $300, to where you're no longer in a place where you think $300 changes your life. Don't be in a place where you think $300 changes your life.
You want to be in a better place than that. And then you don't fall into the traps of these stinking banks and these stinking credit card companies and you get sucked in thinking they're actually there to help you.
They're not. So problem solved.
Hang on. We'll give that to you as our gift.
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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth,

do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

The phone number here is 888-825-5225.

Rachel Cruz, multiple number one best-selling author,

Ramsey personality, co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour, and my daughter is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888-888 and my daughter is my co-host today.
Open phones at 888-825-5225. Nicole is in Salt Lake City.
Hey, Nicole, how are you? Hi, I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve.
What's up? Well, I'm so grateful to actually get to speak to both of you, especially another working mom. I'm concerned with whether or not I would be harming my family's financial future if I take an extended maternity leave with my second child.
I didn't take that with my first child, and I've had a lot of regret about that.

And my husband and I are considering whether or not I could take a year or two off of work.

If I did, we... I've had a lot of regret about that, and my husband and I are considering whether or not I could take a year or two off of work.

If I did, we wouldn't be able to put as much toward our debt snowball as we have.

We've paid off about $217,000 in 2020.

What do you do, Nicole?

I'm an attorney.

What do you make?

Net take home for both of us. No, I said, what do you make? I think my net take-home is 120.
What about your husband? His is about maybe 60, I think. No, it was 70 last year.
His net was 70. What's he do? He owns some car washes.
Okay. So you're going to cut your income by 60, 65%.
Yes. Okay.
And then we would still have $86,000 of my student loan left. It's our only debt besides our mortgage that we still have left to pay on, but we've been paying on it.
And so it's going to set us back. We'll be able to make the minimum payments and maybe a little bit more with distributions, but maybe inconsistently.
And I guess I'm just, I'm concerned because we started a family later in life. We'll both be in our early 40s by the time I wanted to go back to work.
And so obviously having that debt and then having not invested that long, I'm just concerned this is going to cause harm long term. I kind of want to like relieve you from that, Nicole.
I don't think's harm long term I mean I think yeah your your goals are going to shift if your family goals shift and that's a reality um but it's not like you're putting your family in massive danger here right I mean I have some other ideas that we can talk through here in a second but um this so many women feel this and especially since you're the breadwinner of that that I have to be the one to save everything, and it's up to me, and I'm going to put my family in danger. I'm, you know, like this language that you're using, it's very heavy, and I think it's, what I would say is that it's, you're putting more pressure on yourself than needs to be there.
Yes, getting out of debt is a huge goal. And it's one that I want you guys to work towards and one that you've made such

significant progress to. But like we said, the last hour of the show, we talked so much about

how debt is a tool to create, or I'm sorry, money is a tool to create a life that you love.

And you guys have to look at your family unit and your family is a priority, Nicole. I mean,

your family is one that you're like, okay, what is best for us right now? And as a mom, I get it.

Thank you. guys have to look at your family unit and your family is a priority, Nicole.
I mean, your family is one that you're like, okay, what is best for us right now? And as a mom, I get it. Like that, I mean, I pulled back from work after my third because I was like, I just, I want to be home more.
And so all of that is real. Now, does that mean we want to stop everything you guys have been doing and the progress you've made? No, I wouldn't suggest that either.
And so I think a wonderful middle ground, Nicole, for you is to have, because I mean, an attorney, I'm like, that is such a stressful job and the hours you work, I mean, I can't even imagine. So what does life look like if Nicole stays home and her career shifts and your career looks different for a year or two? What does that look like? And so I would start having that kind of conversation of, and I don't know this world, Nicole, so you probably can direct me better in this conversation from this point on in this sense, but is there work to be done that you could do, outsource your skills at some level, some degree, that is significantly less stress and less time than what you've been doing and still be bringing in some kind of flow right to offset the student loans that are there because of law school right you know right so let's use the law degree to clean up the law degree mess but does it have to your life maybe not maybe not in a traditional right attorney setting right what rachel's saying and rachel says she pulled back she pulled back she's not uh but she's not out of the saddle either she's you know her social footprint has grown uh she's still doing appearances she's still on this show still launched a number one best-selling kids book a few months ago uh and so and did all of that on you know less than a full-time hour slate in an office yeah correct yeah in the office and so um you know there but we just shifted around how what we're doing with her brand and how we're doing that um for a season here while the little one is there and so for you that's what i would present to you what does what does that shift look like right because there is you know, there's a level of responsibility that you guys have financially, right? That you have to fulfill, you have to make these payments and getting out of debt, as you know, lifts so many burdens, right? If you didn't have this debt, then you could have the option to stay home full time if you wanted, right? So, but I do think, Nicole, that there's something there that there still can be money to be brought in.
I think you have to think creatively.

And that's probably what I would encourage you to do, to have something.

And then he, honestly, Nicole, will probably have to step up his game if you guys keep this momentum with paying off debt.

I just don't want you to think it's an all or nothing.

Things can shift. And harm is not the right word.

Rachel's right.

That's an overstated word, a mom guilt word in this. Because you guys can't win, okay? You get mom guilt if you're at home because you feel like you should be at work.
And if you're at work, you get mom guilt because you feel like you should be at home. I mean, it's a no win.
And there's always some moron on either side of the coin telling you you should be doing the other one, right? And so we're not not going to be either one of those but probably some kind of a uh a change a hybrid approach because i i there's a part of me that says okay that the you went to all the trouble and the expense and the debt to be a lawyer to go cold turkey doing nothing with that while you've still got 80,000 of it outstanding that doesn't feel right either okay but but also not addressing this need that you've got this desire you've got to be at home doesn't feel right and so I think somewhere in there along Rachel's suggestion is the is the proper answer but I want to take the I'm with Rachel, I want to take the guilt thing of, are you doing irreparable harm? No, you're not doing irreparable harm. You just kind of got to think through, I spent a lot of who I am in money, time, debt, effort, brain power to be a lawyer.
And to cut that completely even for just two years feels pretty extreme yeah and nicole and everyone's obviously created so differently but considering what you've done and as you listed all that dave i was thinking like you know you might look up in six months and be like oh my gosh i'm i'm crazy i'm not happy because i need some output. You know, so you may find that in you, how you're wired, you're going to want to do something as well.
And so that's a possibility too. So you're doing great, Nicole.
You're going to be okay. You're going to do good.
You're asking the right questions. All right, Dave, you have some strong opinions.
Possibly, yeah.

I think so.

Okay, because you really prefer credit unions over big banks.

So why is that?

Well, credit unions, for one thing, are non-profit,

which means that the members, the customers, own the credit union.

So any profits that the credit union makes goes back into customer pricing. So you get better interest rate on savings, cheaper checking, and so on, that kind of thing.
But what's more important than that, though, is the fact that the customer is the owner changes the spirit on the credit union. So I find very few credit unions that aren't very customer-centric.
Yes. Well, and I think we have found one that is incredible, and that's Fairwinds.
They are an incredible credit union that is really out with the heart to help the customer. You know, that's why we're partnering with them because they've got a scope to be able to handle the Ramsey audience and they're the right kind of people with the right kind of values.
And they've done a really, really good job with customer service. And the deals that they're offering, the Ramsey Tribe, is incredible.
Yeah, absolutely. And you're right, their customer service is unbelievable.
Winston and I just signed up, and we got an account. And I'm not kidding.
It took less than five minutes. It was so user-friendly.
The step-by-step approach was unbelievable. And then the next day, my phone rings and it says Fairwinds on my phone.

So I answered it and talked to someone there

and they said, yeah, they give calls to every new customer.

And so again, they just really care about your experience.

And I so, so appreciate that.

So again, you guys, I know it can be a pain

to switch banks or to open up new accounts,

but Fairwinds, again, they make it so easy.

Plus anything that you can do at a traditional branch, you can do with them at fairwinds.org or on their app. And you'll have free access to over 33,000 ATMs.
Hey, you guys know how much I hate banks in general. And so for me to do this is a big deal.
Talk to our friends at Fairwinds and check out the combined checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsey tribe. You guys, it's incredible.
Yeah, you guys, it's so easy to join Fairwinds no matter where you live. So go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey to learn more.
That's F-A-I-R-W-I-N-D-S dot org slash Ramsey. You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car,

but it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage. To protect your biggest assets, I recommend using Ramsey Trusted Pros.
Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsey Trusted Providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would.

Find what you need

at RamseySolutions.com slash insurance. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today.

I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. This is common sense for your dollars and cents, a concept Congress

can't grasp. It's called The Ramsey Show.
Thank you for being with us. The number's 888-825-5225.
Aaron is with us in Las Vegas. Hi, Aaron.
How are you? Good, guys. Thanks so much for having me.
I really appreciate it. Sure.
Our pleasure. How can we help? Well, my wife and I love the show.
We've gone through FPU. We're in baby step six right now.
So we're super excited about that. But a couple months ago, our situation changed.
I'm currently in the process of being diagnosed with a very rare form of muscular dystrophy. and so just the reason I say in the process

I've had a genetics test

that's a possible match

my And so just the reason I say in the process, I've had a genetics test that's a possible match. My doctor is 90% sure, and I've done a biopsy.
But next week, I actually find out the results of the biopsy. And so we've obviously done the baby steps.
We're in a good situation that way. but I guess my question is, what insurance and what

type of long-term planning would you suggest in this? And I guess, am I too late to get to the party to get insurance in this sort of situation now? Life insurance? Yes. Yes, you're too late to the party.

Okay.

All right.

I'm sorry.

The,

and then how you plan for it would be based on i don't know anything about muscular dystrophy in this millennial i mean i remember like the telethon when i was a kid or something and that was i was one of the dinosaurs around the earth and i don't know what this prognosis means for you. Do you?

What do you understand so far?

I know it's very rare.

There's less than 1,000 people in the U.S. that have what I have, and I'm fully functional right now, but it's possible in the next 10 to 15 years

I could be in a wheelchair and I could lose breathing function, so I'd have to have a respiratory device. Oh, Aaron, I'm so sorry.
Wow. Thank you.
And then following that stage, it probably doesn't end well, I'm guessing. It's very possible, yes.
It continues to deteriorate or does it plateau off with the breathing device it can plateau but more than likely it will deteriorate from there how old are you i'm 46 okay all right so we're talking about 60 years old give or take exactly okay all right i'm sorry man it's hard to face something like that. Do you guys have kids? No, we do not.
How's your wife? She's so supportive. Very, very, very awesome.
Yeah, she's great. Well, I think one of the things I'll tell you from working with families, I don't know anything about the medical world, except um they call it practicing medicine for a reason they're practicing and so things in other words things change and extra opinions and continuing to study and continuing to argue with the uh what's in front of you is good, not a denial way but just not accept that that one guy says okay you're gonna be gone in six months you know well maybe not maybe i'm gonna try this and you know so on so you know you're gonna you're gonna you're gonna become an expert on this dad blame it you know to be an advocate for yourself so i'm gonna tell you to continue to do that and don't just accept one thing and walk away.
I don't think you were going to anyway. But second, third, fourth, and later on, eighth opinions, just keep working the problem.
Now, while you're doing that, I have perceived in others, not myself, I've not experienced this, okay? So just like someone calls me up and says, I've got a stage four cancer diagnosis, and they're giving me four months to live, okay? That call has come in here over the years several times, or I've actually sat with people in a room where they were telling me this stuff. And they already have processed the emotions and now are going, okay, what the flip do I do kind of thing.
All right, so that's why you're calling. So in that case, what I found is that facts are your friends.
And so there is a tremendous piece that comes from having your spiritual house in order, number one, but then number two, getting your house in order financially. And you say, okay, if this unfolds, I got about this many years and we're talking wheelchair.
And then I got about this many years on a breathing device. And if it doesn't stop deteriorating, I've got this many years.
And so you, okay, based on that, I'm going to lay out a plan. And then if I get a different result, I'll change the plan.
But if you go ahead and make sure, okay, I got a will in place. I'm going to investigate and find out and make sure Dave's right about life insurance.
I'm going to say, this is our wealth building plan. We're going to continue to pay off the house.
We're going to do this and this and this. And, you know, the more detail, it sounds ridiculous, but the more detail you say, given this diagnosis, this is the exact plan.
Once that detail's in place, it gives you just like a release, you know, a sense of peace. But having the medical be chaotic and the financial future being chaotic simultaneously is almost more than some folk can bear.
So I'm going to encourage you to continue the journey you started with this phone call, and that is really detail out exactly what is your version of the baby steps facing this rare form of muscular dystrophy because it's almost chronic in that it's not a one-year or two-year diagnosis. It's a 15-year or 20-year diagnosis, right? And today it is anyway.
It may change next week, and it may change for the better next week. So are your friends details in the financial arena are not you being cold they're giving your wife peace and you peace and then you can turn back around and concentrate on being well does that make any sense at all no it it totally does and just hearing about this i mean we found out in march and like you said it's it's about you know emotionally trying to register it and then trying to figure out what the facts are yeah and i feel like we're at that place right now and now i'm going oh wait i have to plan about the future now and figure that out which is why like you said i called Yeah, and it's a different future than it was in March.

And truthfully, there may be a treatment that comes a year from now, you know, and then the thing changes again because you're not going to stop studying this. You're living it, you know.
Aaron, do you guys know medical bills? Have they given you guys any direction? Like your insurance, do you guys know financially at all what the costs will be at certain stages of this? We do not. And it's because it's so rare.
I mean, it's just being discovered sort of thing. So I'm in a research study right now.

Good. It's put me in line to hopefully take care of some of the medical bills,

but also figure what this thing out and how it does in the long term, right?

Yeah.

Well, I can tell you this, you know,

continuing a big old pile of money in your 401k and a paid for house is still

going to help the situation. So that part didn't really change, right? Right.
I mean, if you live with this deterioration and disability, or you don't, and you leave her with the situation, either way, a big old pile of money in a paid-for house ain't going to be bad, right? True. So, you know, we could keep working four and six, you know.
The only question is in between, like Rachel's saying, do we need to pile up some cash for interim treatments or treat, you know, we're going to fly to Czechoslovakia because there's a treatment there that's not covered by insurance. Heck, I'm going, man.
Heck, we're paying off the house. Get on an airplane.
Let's go, you know, and we'll redistribute that cash in a different way out of the budget. And of course, you're going to anticipate your income changing potentially as well as you go along.
And so all of that goes with it. But just, you know, keep adjusting the plan.
But the more detailed the plan is, the more peace she's going to have, you're going to have, and then you can turn your energy around to fighting the disease instead of fighting the money. And that's what people that are like with a cancer diagnosis are doing as well.
So man, I'm so sorry. And Aaron, we're here for you.
We're not going anywhere. If you need something, you call anytime.
And tell your wife to call if you, for some reason, aren't able to get on the phone. We'll help any way we can.
Thanks for calling, man. I'm sorry.
I talk to people every day who want to know how to do better in two areas, money and relationships. That's why I'm pumped to bring the Money and Relationships Tour to a city near you.
Join me and Dr. John Deloney for a night that will challenge the way you think about this stuff and possibly change how you live forever.
Starting April 21st, we'll be in Louisville, then on to Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth, and Kansas City. Grab your tickets at RamseySolutions.com slash tour before they're gone.
Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today. in the lobby of RamseySolutions.com slash tour before they're gone.
Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author,

is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage.

Stephanie is with us.

Hi, Stephanie.

How are you?

Hi, I'm good.

Dave and Rachel, how are you both?

We're honored to have you.

Where do you live?

I am about 25 minutes away from Boston, Massachusetts.

Awesome.

How much debt have you paid off? About $105,000. Way to go, kiddo.
Excellent. How long did this take you? Three years and eight months.
Wow. And your range of income during that time? So I started at about $60,000 and I ended at $115,000.
Excellent. And what do you do for a living? So I work for a hospital.
I'm a manager in IT. Good for you.
Okay, cool. And what kind of debt was the $105,000? So it was everything, Dave.
About $360 was medical. I had $3,100 in a car loan, $6,200 personal loan, $7,000 in credit card debt, and the biggest was my student loans.
It was about $88,000. Wow.
Okay. Very cool.
Okay. Tell us your story.
What happened three years and eight months ago that put you on this journey? So I've been living with debt since I was 18. So from the first time I got a credit card, I just- How old are you now? 36.
Okay. So it took me 18 years to get here.
Okay. But so 2018, like I said, I'd been struggling for many years.
And, you know, I'd really have been praying and asking God to really help me because I never knew how to budget, just was out of control, didn't know what to do. So September 2018, I was home on maternity leave.
I had my third child. And I was actually searching for sermons really to watch on YouTube.

And then in my feed, it came, this couple video came up and the title was Dave Ramsey ruined our lives. And so I never saw the couple before.
I never watched them ever. And I never heard your

name. So, but it was a pretty, you know, good looking couple, sharp couple.
So I decided to

watch. And they proceeded to say how, you know, good looking couple, sharp couple.
So I decided to watch.

And they proceeded to say how, you know, they, from the time they started your program, they were getting out of debt.

I mean, you know, selling things left and right, living on rice and beans, not going out, just, you know, making sacrifices to live the life that they wanted to live ultimately.

And so I, you know, and I believe it was Divine Connection.

I believe God led me to that video. And so as I was watching, I said, wow, like they can do it.
I can do it too. So I started searching for you on YouTube.
At that time, I just saw a lot of the short videos, the seven to 10 minute clips. I didn't know you had a show, but I just started digging into those, learned about these, you know, the seven baby steps.
I learned about, you know, just what you practice, and it all made sense. Like I said, I was on maternity leave, so I was making half of my income at the time because it was just using my vacation time to try and spread the time out.
So I downloaded the EverDollar app, and I couldn't really start the budget until October. That's when I went back to work, but I had the budget in place.
I listened to, you know, Rachel Cruz and all the material that you guys put out there and tried to do my budget as best I could. And so once I went back to work in October, my budget was set.
And I, you know, I pretty much hit the ground running. I initially started out, I was, you know, picking up Instacart shifts, you know, even with sometimes my little kids in the car, my daughter.
I would work full-time during the day, and I picked up a temp agency job, you know, at the evening. So, we were home.
It was during COVID. So, you know, kids running around in the background, but I'm doing a temp agency job.
And I also, you know, delivered pizza for Domino's, you know, a short while.

Fast forward to 2020, December 2020.

I interviewed and got a position at another hospital. So that jumped me up in my pay about $20,000.

And the next year, 2021, about November, I got a promotion to manager.

So and that jumped me up as well.

So that has been my journey up, you know, through 2018 to now. You worked your tail off, kiddo.
I was. And you know what? I believed in the vision.
I believed what you taught. And I, from that first, paying off that first credit card, just seeing how free, you know, how a little bit of, you know, space in my budget.
And I said, wow, this really works. And I was determined, regardless of what people said, I was determined that I was going to do it, not just for myself and my kids to leave a legacy.
And that's really why I kept going. Wow.
Congratulations. That's a big deal.
I mean, you know, we get all different types of debt-free screams on the stage and we celebrate them all. But you doing this with little ones over three years working all these shifts.
I mean, you've done the hard work. You've done it.
Congratulations. Thank you.
Incredible. Absolutely incredible.
That's beautiful. What do you tell people the secret to getting out of debt is? It sounds like seven extra jobs.
Yeah. Well, in perseverance, but I think the biggest thing is a mindset change.
You know, people that I talk to and I let them share my journey with, they're happy for me. But, you know, a lot of what I hear is, you know, you'll never be out of debt.
You're always going to have debt. And I, by soaking myself into your show, you know, listening, watching all the debt-free screams that have come across the stage, you know, watching the everyday millionaire, you know, like listening to all these people that have done it and they live debt-free, it is possible.
So I think it requires a mindset shift, you know, being around different people, listening, but realizing that it is possible, but also perseverance. I mean, regardless of what comes, I mean, I had life happen during those three and, you know, eight months.
So, but it's perseverance, being willing to persevere through and trusting God in the process. Because once you've committed to it, he will see you through the end.
Amen, amen. Well done.
Very, very, very well done. Who are your biggest cheerleaders? I would say a little bit of everybody.
I mean, my mom is here, my family, they all supported me through this journey. My coworkers at work, at the time, when I could pick on-call shifts, they would know I was on this journey.
And so they would, you know, help me out, you know, send me there on-call shifts. But I think the biggest one is my oldest daughter.
During COVID, she was my babysitter. When I had to pick up the shifts, she was my babysitter.
And she sacrificed a lot, but she knew what we were after. She knew the reason why we sacrificed.
And she was willing to delay gratification for a season so that we could be here today, you know, and become debt free. So I would say she's my biggest out of everyone, my biggest supporter, my biggest cheerleader.
Was it worth it? Absolutely. Absolutely.
How's it feel to be free? Amazing. I cash flowed this trip here.
It wasn't cheap, but I didn't stress. The money's there.
It's absolutely amazing, and I wouldn't trade anything for the world. I would do it again if I had to.
And you don't have any payments. That's the beauty of making $115,000, $120,000 a year and the ability to pick up and do whatever you need to do because you're proving that to yourself and to your kids.
So your kids got to witness a warrior princess. That's beautiful.
Amen. You got after it, kiddo.
You really got after it. Well done.
Very, very well done. You're a good mom.
Absolutely. You're a good mom.
We got a copy of Baby Steps Millionaires for you. That is definitely the next chapter in your story.
You are on your way. Thank you.
And a copy of the Total Money Makeover for you to give away to someone who was inspired by your story that you run into, because I'm sure you've talked about it some. And of course, Financial Peace University, we want you to go through the class.
We just launched the new videos, the best class we've ever had at Financial Peace right now available. So one-year membership will give you that as well.
Thank you. If you've been through it and you want to give it away, that's fine.
We're happy to have you pass it on however you want to do it. It's very, very good.
All right, bring the kiddos up and tell us their names and ages. So I have Sanaya.
Sanaya is 15 years old. Emanuela, she is five.
And my youngest one, Atara, she's three years old. All right.
Love it. Beautiful.
Very, very, very well done. All right, Stephanie from Boston, Mass.
Three years and eight months to pay off 105,063 jobs. I'm exaggerating a tiny bit, but not much.
And some help from the teenage daughter. That's just beautiful.
60 to 115,000 income during that time. Count it down.
Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one.
We're debt-free. Yeah.
Woo-hoo-hoo-hoo. Well done.
Oh, man. Oh, man.
She made me tear up. She gets it.
I got the stipples. She gets it, and she pushed it through.
That's beautiful. Very, very well done.
That lady's a force of nature right there, man. That's what you have to do.
Mom's like that, though. She said it beautifully.
What's it take? It takes a mindset change. I know.
I know. And you know it's not forever.
It's a mindset change. But in those moments and those nights, it's hard to leave, and she still did.
I'm going to live like no one else so that later I can live and give like no one else. This is the Ramsey Show.
Listen, guys, I've heard just about every excuse for why folks think they can't get ahead with money. So let's go ahead and settle this right now.
You get the final say on what happens with your money. That's why you have to start telling your money where to go so you can stop wondering where it went.
So if you're going to start winning with money, you have to get on a budget. The easiest way to get started and stick to it is with the every dollar budget app.
It'll help you make a plan for every single dollar coming in and every single dollar going out every single month. And guess what? It's free, so no excuses.
Download EveryDollar in the App Store or Google Play today. The best way to make the most of your money is to make your money do what you want it to do instead of wondering where it went.
Tell your money what to do instead of wondering where it went. Most people in this life live reactively, but people who are proactive, who happen to things intentionally, are the ones that we call successful people.
In the wealth building world, if you're going to happen to things intentionally are the ones that we call successful people.

In the wealth-building world, if you're going to happen to your money,

you do that with a budget, and every dollar is the budget that will help you do it.

It's the app that's free in the App Store and Google Play.

Download every dollar.

Get the premium version while you're at it, and start working with your spouse, working the baby steps, working paycheck planning.

There's all kinds of tools inside this thing.

They're going to help you do the Ramsey system more efficiently, and it really sets it up to win.

Go to EveryDollar.com or download the EveryDollar app for free in the App Store or Google Play today.

Dorothy is with us in Fort Myers, Florida. Hi, Dorothy.
How are you? Hi, David. Hi, Rachel.
Thank you for taking my call. And I'm in Naples, just so you know.
Okay, cool. How can we help today? Well, I unfortunately am a widow.
My husband committed suicide last year. Oh, my gosh.
Sorry.

And I would really appreciate it if you'd let me borrow your Magoo glasses to see my way through my mess.

I'm so sorry.

Wow.

Me too.

Me too.

It was certainly something that we weren't expecting.

And now I have a lot of debt, and I want to get rid of it. And I have some very specific questions for you.
One of them is I have an IRA that has some money in it that was part of his, you know what the drop is? How much is in the IRA? It's not a lot. It's about $40,000.
About $40,000. And it's not invested in anything that's earning us and earning me anything.
How old are you? I'm 57. Okay.
And what is your career? I don't have one. My husband wanted me to be his playmate when he retired.
And we had a granddaughter who was born with some complications. And so I stopped working to help, you know, get her through that.
And he just did want me to go back to work. So I didn't.
And so we played and we accumulated a lot of stuff. And I know I can sell that stuff to get into a much better

financial situation and it's just taken some time to kind of sort through. Sorry,

to kind of sort through everything and I wasn't expecting to get emotional,

to sort through everything and get some clarity in all of it, you know.

So I know I need to get a job. I do know that.
And I want one. And I've already started looking for one.
And it's kind of hard not knowing what to do because I have no technical skills whatsoever because I've been out of work for so long. I'm a personal person.
So I know, you know, like customer service and things of that nature, I should do pretty well at. So I plan on doing that right away, and I plan on selling several assets right away.
It's just taken me some time to get there. I already downloaded your EveryDollar app, and so I'm, you know, working with that right now.
What is the most pressing thing you have today that we can help you with? Well, I, you know, I still have our two trucks that I have payments on, and I have some credit card debt, and that was one of the questions I wanted to ask. Do you have any cash other than this 40k? No, sir.
Okay, how are you paying light bill and food bill and all that? His pension. Oh yeah and that's supposed to die out.
How much is his pension? A year or monthly. Monthly it's just under $5,500 and for annual it's like $65,900.
And how much is your house payment? My house payment is $1,900. I always pay $2,000.
And how long does the pension last? The pension is going to end in less than five years. Okay, good.
So we've got a really good plan here. You can survive monthly.
You can survive and have been monthly on the $55,000 with the every dollar budget. That's very possible.
We may or may not use the 40. We'll see.
Prefer to wait until after 59 if we can. Okay.
And you're going to get rid of the truck payments by getting rid of the trucks and getting you a car you can afford. And you're going to start the next chapter of your life.
You're a wee 57-year-old.

You have a lot left, a lot left.

This is your chapter two.

This is act two.

After the curtain comes back up, we took a bow.

It's an encore.

Didn't turn out like we thought it was going to. The story takes a twist, a rather tragic turn,

and the heroine steps forward with her shield and her sword okay thank you thank you that's you that's where you're going and so what's going to happen is three years from today you're going to be booming as the biggest real estate agent in naples or whatever it is you choose to do okay and you're going to be laughing about this little tiny pension but it survived you it sustained you when have, and that was good, but it's certainly not your future. You are your future.
Okay. Right? Mathematically, you are.
Emotionally, you are. Spiritually, you are.
Yes. Financially, you definitely are.
So you're the secret sauce to the equation, and you up to it you can do it I can tell by talking

to you I mean you're hurting but any normal human be hurting with what you've gone through honey but I think there's a lot going on inside Dorothy so how much debt Dorothy you mentioned that you know you guys kind of just traveled and and bought stuff and racked up some debt I'm just curious what what all is the debt? How much credit card debt is it? I have about, it's actually $18,306.38. Okay.
And what other debt is there?

I have, the house is just a little over $100,000. That'll be under $100,000 after

September's payment. I have two trucks totaling $21,000 and an RV that's at $15,000.
So the trucks and the RV are gone and get you a reasonable car. But that's it, right? Okay.
And then we're going to plow through the credit cards. Is there anything else? The credit card? No.
I mean, just monthly payments, of course. Yeah.
All right. Here's what we're going to do.
Okay. I'm going to load you up with homework.
Are you ready to go to school? Yes, sir. All right.
Can I ask you one more quick question? Yes, ma'am. You might not.
I'll wait till you're done and then maybe I'll go ahead. Go ahead.
Go, go right now. Well, Iris, I, the, I had already taken the, one of the credit cards and put it on a zero percent for 18 months, and I'm plugging away at that one.
The other one has an interest rate. It's the one that's only at $6,000.
Would it behoove me to transfer that to a 0% for 18 months? It doesn't matter. You can if you want, but that's not your problem.
Your problem is getting the income up and having your future lined out. And once you see that, then you can turn up the heat and just get rid of them.
And the interest rate doesn't matter when you're paying aggressively on them. So if you want to, it's okay, but it's not really the answer to your situation at all.
So hold on. Christian's going to pick up.
We're going to put you into Financial Peace University. We're going to provide you with a financial coach.

All is our gift.

Okay?

We're people of the book, and the book instructs us to take care of widows and orphans.

And we will do that today.

Okay?

So you're going to get that.

I'm also going to send you Ken Coleman's book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do.

It has in it an assessment.

I want you to take the assessment, and I want you to start the process of dreaming about what the new future looks like for Dorothy. What is it you want to be when you grow up? You're just a wee 57-year-old, just a tiny little one.
You can do it. You can do it.
And Dorothy, and I'm so proud of you. Can we just say too, you haven't messed anything up.
When people go through tragedy, we even tell them just to pause for even a year, right?

So you're not behind all of it.

I know it probably feels very overwhelming, but you've done the right thing.

Hey, guys.

And you're smart.

I'm sorry.

If you want to hear the next 40 minutes of the show, it's on the Ramsey app, the Ramsey

Network app.

So you can download that for free in the App Store or Google Play.

Make sure you jump over and get it there.

If you want to listen to all three hours or watch all three hours, you can always do

that on the Network app. So you can download that for free in the App Store or Google Play.
Make sure you jump over and get it there. If you want to listen to all three hours or watch all three hours, you can

always do that on the Ramsey Network app. It's completely free.
It doesn't cost you a thing.

So the last 40 minutes of the show now, if you're on talk radio, it's still there,

right where it always has been. But if you're on podcast or YouTube, it's on the Ramsey Network app

in the App Store or Google Play. It's completely free.
This is The Ramsey Show. What up? What up? It's Dr.
John Deloney from The Dr. John Deloney Show with some amazing news.
The latest episode of United States of Anxiety is available right now exclusively on the Ramsey Network app. This docu-series follows real people from my show as they embark on a 90-day journey to transform their lives.
And I personally walk alongside them every step of the way. Okay, now here's a sneak peek of what the new episode is all about.
And don't forget to click the link in the show notes to download the app. What's up, Kelsey? So I've lived with crippling anxiety for as long as I can remember.
How do I stop it from constantly coming up in different areas of my life? What does crippling anxiety mean? Paint me a picture of that. All right, so you ready to jump in? I'm ready to jump in.
We're going to check in with Kelsey. 30 days, 60 days, 90 days.
I cannot even function because I'm just crying. My mom left us when I was four.
I truly felt like for a while I had no family. She's experiencing things that really hurt a long time ago.
Tell me about this boy. He triggers me a lot.
Scared of losing Paul, scared of doing

the wrong thing, scared of not being enough.

It just feels like it would be exhausting

to be Kelsey. It is.
Whenever

somebody's playing whack-a-mole with their anxiety, when it

just keeps moving, that tells me the underlying

system's not okay. How do I get

my inner child out of this relationship?

Because I feel like she's running the

show.

One of two people that's supposed to never leave took off. I was this burden.
You're burdened, that's right. To the one person who should carry it, all of it.
Did you ever tell that little girl that it wasn't her fault? I don't know what to do. Do you either have to choose to let this guy

love you, or you gotta choose to let this guy

go?