Delayed Gratification Is a Key Ingredient to Building Wealth

Speaker 1 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work

Speaker 1 that they love, and create actual, amazing relationships. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, number one best-selling author of the book Paycheck to Purpose, is my co-host today.

Speaker 1 Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Speaker 1 Leon is with us in San Francisco. Hi, Leon.
How are you?

Speaker 2 Hi, Dave. How's it going?

Speaker 1 Better than I deserve. What's up?

Speaker 2 I've been fortunate enough to amass some money over the years through just working and some very nicely timed company acquisitions.

Speaker 2 And now I would like to make one of my childhood dreams come true.

Speaker 2 I like to buy a super car that's worth about $250,000.

Speaker 1 Cool. Which car?

Speaker 2 Specifically, the Lamborghini Huricon, a used one.

Speaker 1 That's a beast. Yeah, used one.
Oh, yeah. $250,000.
You're right. News, what? $450,000?

Speaker 2 I think so, yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, okay. Cool.
So what your model would that be?

Speaker 2 Well, looking on some of these websites, anywhere from a 2015 to 2017, 2018.

Speaker 1 Okay, so a 10-year-old has lost $200,000 in value. Yeah.
Yes.

Speaker 1 That's about right. Okay.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And what's your net worth? You sound like you're a bazillionaire or something.

Speaker 2 My net worth,

Speaker 2 so I can break this down.

Speaker 2 I have a net worth

Speaker 2 if you include the mortgage about $3.66 million.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 And what do you make in a year?

Speaker 2 I make about $300,000 a year, which doesn't include a 30% bonus. It's a single income.

Speaker 2 I am married with a one-year-old child,

Speaker 2 but my wife is a stay-at-home mom.

Speaker 1 And how old are you?

Speaker 2 I'm 39, and she is 41.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 1 You can afford the car if you want it.

Speaker 1 The thing is,

Speaker 1 here's how I look at these. Here's how I decide this,

Speaker 1 and I answer questions on this show, like, what would I do if I woke up in your shoes? That's how I answer questions, okay?

Speaker 1 You said you're how old?

Speaker 2 39. Okay, good.

Speaker 1 Well, you've done really well. Congratulations.

Speaker 1 Thank you.

Speaker 1 There's a couple of rules of thumb.

Speaker 1 Generally speaking, you do not want to own all the things you have with motors or wheels to be more than about half your your annual income.

Speaker 1 Now, your income is a little wacky because you've made big chunks of money doing a few deals here or there that don't really include your 300. So this violates that.
You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 1 It's more than half your annual income. So

Speaker 1 that's one rule I look at. It's not a hard and fast rule.

Speaker 1 The second thing is the main thing I do today, if Sharon and I are doing something that feels kind of like a weird, large purchase that's strangely,

Speaker 1 or even a large amount of money we're giving away in generosity, the same thing. We just use the burn the money in the middle of the floor thing.

Speaker 1 If I took this much money and set fire to it,

Speaker 1 does my life change?

Speaker 1 If the answer is yes, then it's too expensive.

Speaker 3 I see.

Speaker 1 I think you could lose 8% of your net worth,

Speaker 1 250 as a percentage of 3.8 million,

Speaker 1 and probably not miss it.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Because the 250 is going to be worth 150 in 20 minutes. You know that.
I mean, we already established 450 turned into 250, right?

Speaker 3 Right.

Speaker 1 It's going to go down in value, and the bigger it is, the faster it's going to go. I mean, the good news is most of the loss is gone.
The first 10 years, you're going to lose the most of it.

Speaker 1 And don't get caught up in the illusion it's going to go up in value. They're not.
They're going to go down in value. And let me just tell you, the new ones are better.

Speaker 1 They don't don't make them like they used to. Thank God.

Speaker 1 I got a 1960 Corvette frame-up restoration compared to the new Corvette. It's a piece of crap.

Speaker 1 I mean, compared. It's a beautiful little antique car, but thank God they don't make them like that anymore.

Speaker 1 We have like brakes that work and power steering and all kinds of modern conveniences now, you know? And so,

Speaker 1 you know, it's

Speaker 1 so number one,

Speaker 1 if I burn the money in the middle of the floor, does it affect my children, my grandchildren, my wife? No, it doesn't.

Speaker 1 You can afford the car. I think you can afford the car.

Speaker 1 Then the last thing I do, Leon, is I ask myself

Speaker 1 some contentment questions, particularly about cars, because I'm a car nut.

Speaker 1 If no one ever sees this car and only I see it and enjoy it, do I still want it?

Speaker 1 For me, absolutely. If I'm driving that car, the answer is yes.
Because I don't give a crap what you think. I'm going to enjoy that freaking fine piece of machinery, right?

Speaker 1 But if you're buying it to impress other people, that's a danger sign spiritually. Agreed?

Speaker 3 Agreed.

Speaker 4 Leon, I have two quick questions. Is there anything you haven't told us that we should know?

Speaker 2 I mean, I do have the mortgage,

Speaker 2 which is it, you know, it's in California California, and it is a sizable mortgage of about $739,000 at 6.74%.

Speaker 2 But the house itself is worth about $1.9 million.

Speaker 4 All right. And then my second question is,

Speaker 4 how much cash do you have total?

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 2 out of what I stated in the net worth, about $2.1 million is in brokerage, in index fund that follows large mid-cap U.S. market.
And And then about $150K is liquid, mixed between check-in savings.

Speaker 2 About $510,000 in my 401k, about 500K in my wife's 401k.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 so that's liquid. And then about 500K in company RSUs, which are investing in approximately one-third every year.

Speaker 1 Before we buy toys, we grow up and pay off the mortgage. So you need to pay off the mortgage, too.
You've got the money in brokerage to pay it off.

Speaker 1 You got the money in brokerage to buy this car, and you're still fine, and you've still got the exact same net worth when we're done with this discussion. So until the car goes down in value.

Speaker 4 That's what I was wondering. In this current situation, I would say no.
I just wouldn't do it personally. I'd want to have the house cleared.

Speaker 1 Pay off the house. I know, I know, but I don't know.

Speaker 4 I can't believe I'm actually.

Speaker 1 Saying a little bit more conservative than you because I love cars, but I just, when you walk through that, i personally put myself in the what would i do if i were him and i don't think i'd spring for that car at that price right now i'd that's fair but you laid it out he can do it he can afford it and it's not going to ruin him i mean if you call me up and you tell me you make three hundred thousand dollars a year and i dreamed about it since i was a child i'll kiss my butt you know um i'm gonna and you know i got no money and i'm gonna go get a car loan to buy that no i'm gonna rip you to shreds no that'd be dumb okay for your own sake because I love you.

Speaker 1 But yeah. But I mean, yeah, really.

Speaker 1 So I honestly, it doesn't make the sale to me because I've had to quit doing that myself. Yeah.
I always wanted that since I was a child.

Speaker 1 You know, that's not justification for spending money you don't have. When so go make some money, you know, but if you have the money and it's just something you want, then

Speaker 1 go for it. Yeah, I mean,

Speaker 1 it's not the end of the world. But that's the trick.
Well done. Well done.
Well done.

Speaker 1 This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us.
Merry Christmas, America. We're glad you're with us.
Robert is in New Jersey. Hey, Robert, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 3 Hey, Dave, thanks for taking my call.

Speaker 1 Sure. What's up?

Speaker 3 So I'm calling to talk about your favorite financial instrument, the whole life insurance policies.

Speaker 3 I have a question about policies that my parents bought years and years ago, and hopefully you can help me figure out what to do with these things.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 long story short, me and my family, me and my parents and my brother opened a small business about five or six years ago.

Speaker 3 When we did, we borrowed money against my parents' whole life insurance policies to help fund the real estate purchase and construction. It's a dog daycare boarding and grewing facility.

Speaker 3 They opened five years, doing well, profitable, growing. It's in good shape.

Speaker 3 The first two years, we didn't make any payments on those loans. So the amount grew as I capitalized the interest.

Speaker 3 Then I started making monthly payments on those loans for money that we were making in the business once we became fairly profitable. So here's my question.

Speaker 3 These loans, there's six total loans, excuse me, six total policies that my parents took out. It's about $1.4 million

Speaker 3 in face-value insurance, plus the additional insurance they purchased over the years as they were, I think they made some overpayments in the past, things like that.

Speaker 3 I have borrowed about $600,000 against the policy.

Speaker 1 So here's my question. What's the remaining cash value?

Speaker 3 The remaining, the net cash value as of today is about $200,000, and the death benefit as of today, and all of them combined is about $1.06 million.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 3 My question is, do I bother paying these loans down? And if I do, do I use your snowball effect and go for the lowest balanced loans first or do I pay them off all evenly? Because

Speaker 3 technically, they all have the same interest rate. It's basically like one large basket, right?

Speaker 3 So am I even benefiting from the snowball considering there's no minimum payments on these things, right? I can pay them at any time, any way I want. I can make the payment.

Speaker 3 I could not let the interest capitalize. You know, you can manage them any way you like.
So, what do I do with them? Should I pay them?

Speaker 1 Should I not?

Speaker 1 Apparently, your parents don't need

Speaker 1 the actual life insurance.

Speaker 3 Well, I mean, look, they took these out thinking, hey, one.

Speaker 1 No, what I'm asking is that if your dad died today,

Speaker 1 your mom's not going to get much money

Speaker 1 because the loans are repaid from the death benefit.

Speaker 3 Yeah, well, when you take, yeah, correct.

Speaker 3 So when you

Speaker 2 the total value.

Speaker 1 So if you have a face value of 1.4 and you have loans of 600,

Speaker 1 they currently have $800,000 in actual proceeds would come to your mom if your dad died. Well,

Speaker 3 there's also an extra $200,000. They also, over the years, purchase an extra $200,000 of insurance by overpayments.

Speaker 1 So it's

Speaker 1 paid up additions.

Speaker 3 Yeah, paid up additions. Yeah.
So they actually have a million dollar death benefit. But yeah, you are right, though, by the way.
My parents,

Speaker 3 though, they have an interest in our small business. They have income through that.

Speaker 3 That's actually my second job. I have another job

Speaker 3 where

Speaker 3 I'm a trader. I flip the syndicate market.
You know, I trade IPOs.

Speaker 3 I borrowed money from my parents to feed that as well and gave them a percentage of what I make off of that.

Speaker 3 So, well, basically, my parents had to income.

Speaker 1 Other wealth?

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 3 How much?

Speaker 3 So I'm going to be honest, and I don't have total transparency, but I'm going to say all in, they probably have assets of that $1 million and a half dollars.

Speaker 1 In addition to all this, okay.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Yeah. And the income.
Even though they are retired, they have income from two businesses that I run that they have interest in. So

Speaker 3 you're right. Without this life insurance, they would still be financially safe.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Well, I don't think you guys are going to do what I would do because you're so far afield and your parents are so heavily emotionally invested in this process that I don't think there's a snowball's chance that you guys are actually going to do this.

Speaker 1 But you asked, so I'll tell you. I owe you that.

Speaker 1 What would I do? I would cancel the whole life policies completely, cash them out,

Speaker 1 and and end it.

Speaker 3 I had a funny feeling you'd say that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I would just end it. Yeah.
Because your mom is going to be fine. And if they want you to execute a note for $600,000 back to them,

Speaker 1 then you would owe them that money because you've reduced the amount they're going to get from the cancellation of the policies by the loan you've taken out. So,

Speaker 1 you know, they either need to get equity in the business and or more equity in the business.

Speaker 3 They do have equity.

Speaker 1 I know, but does that offset the loan? No. You're still paying on the loan.

Speaker 5 Gotcha.

Speaker 1 Right?

Speaker 3 No, you're right. You're right.
Well, let me ask you this, just because you definitely understand these instruments better than I do, right?

Speaker 3 So say I was to cancel these policies today.

Speaker 1 They're not yours. You can't.
Your parents can cancel them today.

Speaker 3 Well, you're right. They will put it this way.

Speaker 3 They basically, I've been managing their finances for them other than some just assets that they own that somebody else has helps them out with because they're both kind of frankly

Speaker 3 you know they're they're they're they're a little older and both a little bit unwell say um

Speaker 3 so they basically ask me what to do with these things and do you know they they take my advice and trust me and i i don't want to put them in the wrong direction here you know okay i got um but but say say that i i advise them say you should close these things down today right

Speaker 3 so they do that they get out of it what the net cash value that's left at that 190 000

Speaker 3 a check for that 190 exactly and And then they have the $600,000 that is owed to them from the start of our business.

Speaker 1 Correct.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 that's it.

Speaker 1 That's it. Right?

Speaker 3 Right. Okay.

Speaker 1 And they got rid of all the expenses.

Speaker 1 And you're not paying interest on your own money.

Speaker 3 Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Speaker 6 Okay. That all makes sense.

Speaker 3 The only counter I'd have that to help convince me here, Dave, is though there is,

Speaker 3 say that they were to pass away soon, unfortunately, right? I mean, my parents, to be frank, they're, you know, they're

Speaker 3 elderly.

Speaker 3 There's

Speaker 3 just over a million dollars of death benefit

Speaker 3 left over after accounting for the loans, right?

Speaker 3 No, how come?

Speaker 1 Because you got a million four in death benefit minus 600.

Speaker 3 No, well, it's a million, don't forget, it's a million four plus the other 200 and what do they call paid up additions? Okay. So it's

Speaker 1 1.6 minus 8.

Speaker 3 8 million so yeah all right yeah well minus six yeah so it's a million i mean so i looked at the statements and the death benefit amount for each one of these things added together is just over a million so why walk away from that payout for taking

Speaker 1 uh well i mean if they're terminally ill and got a year to live if you want to play that gamble on your parents' death game you can um i'm personally not doing that um and i don't think they are i don't think they're one year from grave we i may be one year from grave.

Speaker 1 I don't know. But

Speaker 1 the,

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 you guys are paying so much in such extreme costs and have for so long on these ridiculous things that the last thing I'm going to do is keep giving these people money.

Speaker 1 I just couldn't do it. And so, but again, if someone's terminally ill that's on one of these policies and you think they're, you know, you think they got a one-year,

Speaker 1 as my grandpa said, he said, I'm not buying green bananas. You know, you think we're running on the end of this thing.

Speaker 1 Then if you want to play that gamble game against their death, that's called an actuarial table. It's the statistical probability of death versus the game you're playing.
And I personally,

Speaker 1 unless someone is, you know, in hospice or something, I'm not going to fool with that.

Speaker 1 The other question is, are they okay?

Speaker 1 Have you got their finances set up in such a way that their mom's going to be okay if dad dies financially without these policies? I think she she is.

Speaker 1 And then the same question the other way. But, I mean, you do whatever you want to do.

Speaker 1 That's a different situation. And then the loan you've got back to them for the doggy, whatever it was, hotel or whatever it was.

Speaker 1 If you've got

Speaker 1 siblings and so forth, you may have some issues of dividing that up. You may end up owing them, depending on how this will is set up.
I'd want to know how the will is done for your sake, but wow.

Speaker 4 Zero chance he does it.

Speaker 1 Agreed.

Speaker 1 This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Merry Christmas.

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Speaker 1 Of course, Paycheck to Purpose by my own Ken Coleman sitting here, my co-host today.

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Questions for Human Cards by Deloney. Oh, all of this at ramseysolutions.com slash store.

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But you better not wait. You better not wait.
All right. Taylor is in Fort Worth.
Hey, Taylor, what's up?

Speaker 7 Hi, thanks so much for taking my call.

Speaker 1 Sure. How can I help?

Speaker 9 So my question is, should I go back to school and pursue my nurse practitioner license?

Speaker 4 And why would you want to do that?

Speaker 9 So I'm currently working as a nurse. I'm newly married, and I make about 75K before taxes.
My husband makes about 100K before taxes.

Speaker 9 And it's something that I've always considered doing.

Speaker 9 And I just, we don't have any kids yet. So I kind of feel like maybe it's now or never.

Speaker 6 But my biggest concern is I've watched several of my friends go back to school and then they have had babies or

Speaker 9 kids in life come up and they have decided to be a stay-at-home mom. And so I'm a little bit nervous to make that decision, that financial decision to go back to school before having kids.

Speaker 9 And then I don't want to regret when I have kids still having to work because of that degree.

Speaker 4 Yeah. Well, the answer to that is not what you're concerned about.
The answer is pay cash. If you don't go into debt, then there's no regret because then you could, let's just fast forward.

Speaker 4 Let's say that you pay cash, you cash flow your way through this. And on this income, you should be able to do that.
And then you get the nurse practitioner degree.

Speaker 4 You have kiddos, you want to come home for a season. Then they get to school and you go, I want to go back.

Speaker 4 That entire transition is very likely, but there's no regret attached to that. And that extra income is going to be worth the ROI on that's going to be worth it.
So the answer is don't go into debt.

Speaker 4 Cash flow your way through it. And with your income, you should be able to save up and do that.

Speaker 6 Right. Yeah, that would be the plan.

Speaker 9 We actually already have the cash set aside.

Speaker 1 Oh, well, then what's the regret?

Speaker 4 Let's say you spend that cash. I mean, is the regret that I spent the cash and now I'm never going back into it? And so now I've just, oh, I burnt that money.
Is that what you're saying?

Speaker 6 Yeah, I think it's just

Speaker 9 sacrifice over the next two years. I mean, if I didn't go back to school, we would start our family a little bit sooner.

Speaker 7 I think probably within the year.

Speaker 9 And going back to school means pushing that off for two years.

Speaker 13 And so I think just kind of struggling with that.

Speaker 1 And if that's right. No, I'd have babies.

Speaker 4 I would too. I was getting ready to say I think

Speaker 1 that's a good school.

Speaker 4 And the school will always be there.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 4 You see? And you already got the cash set aside.

Speaker 4 I'm going to say the same thing because I'm thinking if Stacey and I are having that conversation, I would ask you, if I was sitting with you and your husband, I'd go, both of you vote, write it down, seek your ballot ballot or tell me straightforward, which is the higher priority.

Speaker 4 And if you both say kids, then I think it's a no-brainer.

Speaker 5 Right.

Speaker 9 And I mean, I know kids are, I mean, we're only 28, and so starting a family at 30 isn't crazy.

Speaker 9 So it's just kind of trying to decide if, you know, it makes more sense to go and increase my income before we have kids rather than having them and then trying to, you know, suffer through school and daycare and everything else.

Speaker 1 School will always be there. Yep.

Speaker 4 And I'm not trying to, but I'm just going to speak some truth over you. You have no idea when these babies are coming.
So

Speaker 4 you don't have any control over that. Now, I certainly hope it happens in a timeframe that you'd love, but we don't know.

Speaker 1 Spoken like a guy who adopted two and then had one. Right.

Speaker 4 And our journey, our journey was a long time. I don't wish that on anybody as far as a long period of trying to have babies, but I am saying you don't have any idea what that's going to look like.

Speaker 4 So you can't hedge your bets on, well, if I go to school, then we have the baby. You just don't know.
So, I would move forward with the bigger life decision, the bigger desire, the bigger priority.

Speaker 4 That's what we do. Then, we manage the rest of the decisions against that.

Speaker 1 Another way that I've learned on big stuff, whatever the big stuff is, that helps me, and it helped me to make, that's why I spoke so quickly.

Speaker 1 Is if I pan back and I say, all right, I'm now talking to 58-year-old Taylor.

Speaker 1 Which one would she have wished she had done?

Speaker 1 Ding, ding, ding, ding, Real easy.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I heard it in your voice.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay. And it's not, it's not your friend.
It's not your friends. It's not what your friends are doing.
I don't give a crap what your friends are doing.

Speaker 1 I'm talking, I was just listening to you, and you're trying to say, okay,

Speaker 1 should I go make more money and expand my career and therefore

Speaker 1 have children later.

Speaker 1 But I kind of, you know, I heard it. I want to have them them now.
That's what you need to do. No question.

Speaker 4 And hear from us. You've got plenty of money.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you're fine. You'll be okay.
You'll be okay. Just keep working your baby steps.
And

Speaker 1 then at the appropriate time, you can work on

Speaker 1 nurse practitioner, which, by the way, is an incredible, wonderful

Speaker 1 control. That's a beautiful career feel.
You're going to make so much money and you're going to have so much access to you'll have all the work you'll ever want. You'll always have work.

Speaker 1 So really good. Devin is in Raleigh, North Carolina.
Hi, Devin. How are you?

Speaker 14 Hi, I'm good. Thank you so much for taking my call.

Speaker 8 How are y'all doing?

Speaker 1 Better than we deserve. How can we help?

Speaker 14 I just had a quick question.

Speaker 6 Obviously, that's what I called.

Speaker 7 So my husband and I actually just finished paying off our debt.

Speaker 8 Good.

Speaker 1 Congratulations.

Speaker 14 Thank you so much. Like, you have been a game changer for us.

Speaker 14 We are currently saving for our like three to six months and then going to be saving for a down payment.

Speaker 14 And I needed to know, should this just be going into just like a savings account or like a high yield savings or should we putting the money somewhere else?

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 1 high yield savings is fine.

Speaker 8 Okay, okay.

Speaker 1 You're going to make a little bit of interest, but the money you're going to have for your down payment is going to be from the sweat of your brow, not from the interest rate.

Speaker 1 Okay. Because you're not going to have it in there long enough to make any interest to amount to anything.

Speaker 14 No, and I didn't think that, and that's why I didn't know if it really mattered, but okay, okay, awesome.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 you're the secret sauce to having a down payment, not the investment.

Speaker 1 I mean, just go ahead and get what you can get. A high-yield savings, what, four or five right now, that kind of thing.
There's nothing wrong with that. But I mean, 5% of 100 grand is $5,000.

Speaker 1 And that means if you had $100,000 in there, you'd have $105.

Speaker 1 100 versus 105 does not change the house you buy. The 100 is what changes the house you buy.
So you're the secret sauce that puts the 100 in there.

Speaker 1 Because again, interest rates matter a lot more when you're thinking in a long-term time horizon. Mathematically, they matter a lot more.

Speaker 1 And so, yeah, just I would just park it in a high-yield savings. You don't have to think about it.
Yeah, I love it.

Speaker 4 And I love hearing the excitement. I love hearing.

Speaker 1 She's winning.

Speaker 1 They just paid off their debt.

Speaker 4 Now you got a young couple. The American Dream is alive and well is what I take from that call.

Speaker 1 Absolutely.

Speaker 4 Despite what you may be reading or hearing somewhere else, that's fun.

Speaker 1 Absolutely. Mary is on Facebook and says, at age 56, how much should I have saved for retirement by now?

Speaker 1 Oh, no, you're not going to make it.

Speaker 1 You're going to be fine. I don't even know how much you have, but you're going to be fine.
There's not a set number, okay?

Speaker 1 The goal is by the time you quit working, whenever that is,

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 the government made up the number number 65.

Speaker 1 No one else did. It's just made up.

Speaker 1 Okay, so you can work till 85,

Speaker 1 you can work till 105,000, I don't care. You just work until you don't want to work or until you hate that job and you go do something different, right?

Speaker 1 But if you can live off of 8%

Speaker 1 of your nest egg and it's invested at 12, you'll be fine. So if you have $500,000, 8%

Speaker 1 of that would be $40,000 a year.

Speaker 1 And it'll be growing at a little more than that. It'll be growing at about $60,000 a year.

Speaker 1 So if you grow 60 and you pull off 40, you'll be fine. And that program right there will run in perpetuation.

Speaker 1 It doesn't have an end. You never run out of money with that program.
So if you build a nest egg that you can live off of 8%, then boom, you're going to be there just fine.

Speaker 1 So just start targeting that and be serious about about it, be intentional about it, but don't be anxiety-ridden about it.

Speaker 1 This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 4 For free tools and resources to help you reach your home goals, go to ramseysolutions.com slash real estate or click the link in the show notes.

Speaker 1 Student loan debt is an epidemic and defaulting on debt makes you feel even worse.

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Speaker 1 Might not be in all states.

Speaker 4 Today's question comes from Kate in Maryland. My daughter is a junior in high school and has no idea of what she wants to do when she graduates.

Speaker 4 My husband and I love the idea of her owning her own business, but neither my husband nor I have experience in this.

Speaker 4 We both wish we had made different career decisions that would have given us more independence. Where can we research with her to get a better understanding and vision for this option?

Speaker 4 Or would you still recommend college versus real-world experience? Okay, I'm going to put myself into this particular situation. Say, if this was my daughter, what would I do?

Speaker 4 And so, because she's a junior, we would begin to identify areas of interest,

Speaker 4 not come up with a business idea. I think this could be very paralyzing for a youngster.

Speaker 4 It's paralyzing for a lot of people in their 30s and 40s because we know, Dave, from the data that 70% of Americans want to be self-employed, but only 6% are. So, I'm speaking from data here.

Speaker 4 So, what I would do with my daughter is we would begin to identify areas of interest. In other words,

Speaker 4 people that she wants to to help, solutions she gets excited about, problems she wants to solve. And there's an industry.
If there's a business, there's an industry.

Speaker 4 And so we want to get broad so that she gets some real interest and begins to see some areas of interest. At that point, we're going to shadow.

Speaker 4 I'm going to allow her to go have coffee, lunch with people that are in those industries or maybe run businesses in those industries,

Speaker 4 shadow at work if she can get shadow opportunities. All of this to begin to create a field of three or four of her most interesting options.

Speaker 4 At that point, then we start to have the discussion: is college, is a degree the best decision, or is it getting right into the workforce and working in an industry?

Speaker 4 Give you an example to help clarify this some more. If this were a young man, and by the way, it's not limited to young man, but let's say she decides she wants to own a business in the trades, okay?

Speaker 4 That point, then I want her shadowing shadowing folks that are working in those trades and getting a real world

Speaker 4 experience. The good, the bad, the ugly, the smelly, everything.
And at that point, we determine whether or not she's really interested.

Speaker 4 And then the path is going to be to go to work and hustle and learn on the job. And eventually you work your way into spinning off on your own and starting your own business.

Speaker 4 So that's a hard question to answer in such a short amount of time without back and forth. But that would be the advice that I would give because that's what I would do.

Speaker 4 These young people need to see it, touch it, experience it, smell it. Yes.

Speaker 4 And then they can decide.

Speaker 1 Completely agree. Because,

Speaker 1 Kate, you did not say

Speaker 1 she has this extreme passion and apparent natural talent and bent towards X,

Speaker 1 because you did not say that, that would have led her towards a business.

Speaker 1 The people that we've talked to that are 18 or 19 or 21 years old that have had success and they call this show and they are really killing it and we're all kind of aghast at how far ahead of this curve they are running their own thing.

Speaker 1 They almost always had a natural gift towards something.

Speaker 1 Technology is not unusual for a 19-year-old today to be something that they would go, you know, they've been screwing around writing code, messing around building apps, and all of a sudden they built an app and took off and ran the business, okay?

Speaker 1 Or, you know, whatever. That's fine.
I mean, that would be Michael Dell. That would be Bill Gates.
Both quit college. And

Speaker 1 Steve Jobs, all three. All three companies were formed by college dropouts.
And so, but they were

Speaker 1 super nerds with their eye exactly on what they wanted to do. That's correct.
There was no question. Instead, you're asking a very generic thing.

Speaker 1 My husband and I always wish we were in business, so we wish our daughter would go into business, but none of us have a clue. Yeah.

Speaker 1 No, don't go in business. Business is too hard.
That's correct.

Speaker 1 Don't put an 18-year-old, 20-year-old out there with no education to go into business doing that. No.
If she thinks

Speaker 1 that in talking with her, that she has got some entrepreneurial flair and wants to do a business someday, maybe in the future, a great, you know, just get a business degree.

Speaker 1 Get a degree in finance, a degree in marketing. You'll learn accounting.
You'll learn statistics. You'll learn marketing.

Speaker 1 You'll learn strategic thought.

Speaker 1 I mean, you'll get some of these basic things in a good four-year degree. That's what I have.
And I use a lot of those classes I took 40 years ago every day running Ramsey.

Speaker 1 You know, it's a $300 million company. It's a dad gum good thing.
I had a couple of accounting classes. Hello.

Speaker 1 You know, rather than just trying to figure that out with a high school accounting class.

Speaker 1 And so it's a good thing that I, you know, understand marketing at an academic level before I actually get neck deep in it and then try to figure out how it works out here in the real world, too.

Speaker 1 So I would do that if she thinks she's going to go that direction, combined with Ken's advice of really go in there and study, study.

Speaker 1 Go visit these places. Quit talking about this stuff in the abstract.

Speaker 4 Here's what we know about entrepreneurs.

Speaker 1 Business is very hard. It is.
And people that have never started a small business and run one have this romantic view.

Speaker 1 But there's a lot of dirt under the fingernails, boys and girls. I mean, there's a lot, it's, it's long hours, it's the hardest boss you'll ever work for in your life.

Speaker 1 That guy's a dead gump slave driver.

Speaker 4 Yeah. And to that point, the entrepreneurs that win are driven by deep, deep desire to solve a problem.

Speaker 4 And they come up with a solution. That's the business is a solution.
And they're deeply passionate about it.

Speaker 4 That's what keeps them going because it is, you almost need that magnetic pull or you're just in it.

Speaker 1 Because in air quotes, I always wanted to work for myself. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You're not going to make it.

Speaker 4 No, no chance.

Speaker 1 It's too tough. You're going to get your butt run over in the middle of the street, man.
I mean, you're just going to be roadkill.

Speaker 1 And it's just too, I mean, because you put up with too much, you shovel so much manure, it's unbelievable.

Speaker 1 There's a pony in there somewhere, but you got to shovel the manure. I mean, it's real.
And I'm not complaining and I'm not whining. I wouldn't, but I had a call for a certain thing.
That's correct.

Speaker 1 And I've had two in my life. I mean, one on real estate and went broke and then one doing this and I could do the real estate tomorrow and still be okay.

Speaker 1 But obviously God called us to this right here and I'm happy with that. But yeah, I wouldn't put up with the BS that you, nobody will.
That's why we see business people quit all the time.

Speaker 1 It's why we see a chef who is good at cooking and nothing else

Speaker 1 has a failed restaurant.

Speaker 1 It's why restaurants have the highest failure rate of almost any stinking business category.

Speaker 1 Because somebody thinks because they can cook or like cooking for their friends, that that makes them a restaurant owner. No.
You got to hire and fire people all day long.

Speaker 1 A restaurant has a 325% turnover ratio in a year. It means you have to hire three people to fill that one position during that year.

Speaker 1 So you're in the hiring business. You're in the firing business.
You're in the food sourcing. Inventory.
Because all this stuff that goes with running a business is not cooking.

Speaker 4 That's right.

Speaker 1 And it blows a chef's mind, and they go, oh, God, I wish I'd never. Yeah,

Speaker 1 we all wish you'd never.

Speaker 4 That is a great actual example of, do I want to run a business that serves food or do I just want to cook food? Two very different paths. By the way, both honorable.

Speaker 4 But there is a big distinction between the two, and that's the key.

Speaker 1 You know, it's even like when we're talking with entree leaders, these small businesses, and they're getting ready to promote their best salesperson to be sales manager.

Speaker 4 It's two different skills. That's exactly right.

Speaker 1 Your managing salespeople is different than making sales.

Speaker 1 So sometimes one of the worst things you can do is take your best seller and turn them into a sales manager because they don't have that skill set. They're good at selling.

Speaker 1 They're not good at managing salespeople.

Speaker 4 And don't forget, they may not enjoy it. They may enjoy the service.

Speaker 1 They may hate it.

Speaker 4 They enjoy the service of the customer. They don't enjoy the service of leading a team of people.
Again,

Speaker 1 it's like running a beauty parlor. It's

Speaker 4 two very different job descriptions.

Speaker 1 So, you know, you need to get in there what it is. So, that's it's a great question, Kate.
And we'll have the team send out

Speaker 4 the student assessment. It would be great for them.

Speaker 1 Okay, perfect.

Speaker 4 Because we've actually got that, and that's a young person can take that and get a pretty good idea of what a current snapshot of what a professional job description of purpose would look like for them.

Speaker 1 And that can be a business. That's right.
I might very well be detailing that. But make sure you understand that you know, business is not romantic.
This is the Ramsey Show

Speaker 1 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show. We help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.
Thank you for joining us, America.

Speaker 1 We're so glad you're here. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, host of the Ken Coleman Show.
And of course, the book is Paycheck to Purpose.

Speaker 1 The other one's Proximity Principle. He's my co-host today.
Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Speaker 1 Andrew is in Winston-Salem, North Carolina. Hi, Andrew.
Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey.

Speaker 3 Hey. Hey, Dave.
Hope you guys are doing well today. Appreciate you taking my call.
Sure.

Speaker 3 So I'm 32 years old and I've been following your baby steps and your content on YouTube and your website.

Speaker 3 I've just reached baby step number four.

Speaker 1 So congratulations. Well done.

Speaker 3 Thank you very much. Yeah,

Speaker 3 it was a big achievement.

Speaker 3 So in regards to investing, I just took a look at kind of what my current situation is. And I'm enrolled in my employer's 401k and

Speaker 3 contributing 6%, which is what my company matches.

Speaker 3 Now, I think your advice is to next open up a Roth IRA.

Speaker 3 and max that out.

Speaker 1 And if there's any leftover, put that back into the 401k to hit my 15% is that correct yeah exactly unless your 401k offers a Roth and has good options good mutual funds to pay from in which case you could just put it all in there doesn't matter but um okay does your does your company offer a Roth 401k

Speaker 3 um it's through Fidelity so I'll I'll have to go and check into that I was going to open up a Roth IRA through Fidelity um just to keep it under one one roof I wouldn't

Speaker 1 you would not No, I would go find.

Speaker 1 It's not whether it's from with Fidelity. Fidelity offers Roth 401ks to the employers that use Fidelity to manage their 401ks.

Speaker 1 And the only question is whether your employer allows that or not. If they do, you need to switch your whole thing to Roth.
Now, do you have good long-term options for mutual funds inside that 401k?

Speaker 3 I believe so, just at the, you know, based on the quick searching I've done.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 You know, if you've got great options there, I would just put it all there and I put it all in Roth.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 1 That's what, you know, if that gets you to your 15%, if it doesn't, then you can open a Roth and I would go to a Smart Investor Pro at ramseysolutions.com to get your investing started.

Speaker 1 But the mutual fund family, the brand is Fidelity. There's Vanguard.

Speaker 1 There's Templeton. There's American Funds.
Those are brands like Campbell's soup. But then the mutual funds inside is the vegetable soup or the chicken noodle soup or the chili or

Speaker 1 whatever analogy or metaphor we want to use here. So you don't have to have all of your soup from Campbell's.
You could get a different brand of soup.

Speaker 1 So it's not required that you go get a Fidelity Roth with your 401k. I mean, just because your 401k is that.
Not at all. I'm not saying they're bad.

Speaker 1 Most of these fun families, these brands, have good funds and bad funds, track record-wise. So you just need to learn about their track records.

Speaker 1 And if you want some further help, do go to ramseysolutions.com and sit down and

Speaker 1 do that. And Ken,

Speaker 1 the big thing he's doing right is he's actually doing it. Yeah.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 that he worked really hard to get there. I loved how he kind of paused after you said, great job.
And he went, it was a big accomplishment.

Speaker 4 And, you know, what's fun to hear about that is this is a guy who now understands the pain that they went through to get to Baby Step 4.

Speaker 4 And now you get to the momentum stage where we're like, now we're getting wealthy and building wealth. And that's fun to hear.
Yep. Yep.

Speaker 1 Absolutely. And yeah, it's like, God, man, I got rid of all those payments.
Now I got some money to invest. Time to flip the switch from being a broke person to being a rich person.
Right.

Speaker 4 Oh, I will ask a question because we've got a lot of new people all the time. And I'd love, I know the answer, but I'd love you to address it.

Speaker 4 Because we tell people in Baby Step 4, 15%.

Speaker 4 So

Speaker 4 the 15%,

Speaker 4 explain that because he's got 6% he's putting in, this company's matching, because I think a lot of people have questions about that, so about what we teach on that number.

Speaker 1 Just take your household income, if you're married, you and your spouse's income total times 0.15,

Speaker 1 and that dollar amount needs to be going into retirement somewhere, somehow.

Speaker 1 The best thing you can do is take a match,

Speaker 1 regardless of if it's Roth or traditional. If your company's matching, like he's got a 6% match, the best thing you could do.
And the 6% match does not count towards the 15%. You are putting 15 in.

Speaker 1 The fact that they give you 6%, that's irrelevant. It's wonderful, but it's irrelevant to this discussion.
So you put in 15%. That was your point.
That's right. And

Speaker 1 then, but it's kind of a rock, paper, scissors, except it only goes one way. Match

Speaker 1 beats Roth.

Speaker 1 beats traditional.

Speaker 1 So you go down the order. You first get all the match you can get.
If they have a Roth, like I suggested to him he may, then you get the match in a Roth. That's a double win.
Then you max out in Roth.

Speaker 1 And if you can't do anything except traditional beyond that, because for instance,

Speaker 1 your company only has a traditional 401k, so you got the 6% match like he may have, he thinks he might have. Then you move on from that 6%.
We move on down. We do Roth

Speaker 1 at the Smart Vestor Pro. Well, that Roth amount plus the amount you put in the 401k at 6% match, still not up to 15%.

Speaker 1 Then the last stage is you'd go back and finish off with the traditional, which he had that exactly right. That's right.
He'd been listening and had that figured out exactly.

Speaker 1 So match beats, Roth beats traditional. Because a match is 100% rate of return.
You put in $1,000, they put in $1,000. You made $1,000 on your money instantaneously.

Speaker 1 And there are no mutual funds that have 100% rate of return. None.

Speaker 1 And there are no taxes that are 100% tax rate. So you can always win with a match.
Always. Matches Trump card.
It wins the whole thing. Tara is in Salt Lake City.
Hi, Tara. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 14 Thank you, Dave. I'm happy to be here.

Speaker 1 Good to have you. What's up?

Speaker 14 I, a little background. I have a degree in healthcare administration.
And since I had babies, I found some jobs where I could do billing from home.

Speaker 14 So I do insurance billing and I run co-pays and things like that. My husband is a licensed therapist.
And just this year, he became independently licensed.

Speaker 14 So he started his own private practice where he sees patients on Saturdays. And so he works at his 40-hour a week job and then Saturdays he sees his patients.

Speaker 14 And I want to be involved in his business's finances. This is what I do from home for other offices.
Like I understand insurance and co-pays and deductibles.

Speaker 14 And he doesn't want me to touch his business at all.

Speaker 5 And I,

Speaker 14 it's not so much that I don't trust him.

Speaker 1 Why doesn't he want you touching it? That's weird.

Speaker 14 Yeah, he says he's worked for companies before where, like, the husband and wife have both been in charge.

Speaker 14 And he's like, I just see that their marriage isn't great and they're fighting over business things. And he's like, I'd rather not have business conflict in our marriage.

Speaker 14 So he kind of wants to just have that. He's like, you can manage all the money I take home, but I want to run the business myself.

Speaker 14 I mean, did Sharon help you when you were starting your business with a business?

Speaker 1 No, but she also didn't want to and didn't have the skill set to. She does not have an accounting background like you do.

Speaker 1 So this is not a comment. Listen,

Speaker 1 this is like someone who says family should never work together. That's bull.
Family can work together just fine as long as they know how to do it.

Speaker 1 As long as they know they have the relational skills. A therapist that does not have the relational skills to do this scares me.

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 14 I mean, he's not a marriage therapist, but yes.

Speaker 1 Well, I mean, he's therapy and something.

Speaker 1 You're doing some kind of teaches people to function with other human beings. That's what therapy does.

Speaker 4 Yeah, that's interesting, Dave. It's like, run the business is one thing.
She just wants to help with the finances.

Speaker 1 No,

Speaker 1 he doesn't want her involved at all. Yeah, that's weird.
That's weird. No, I think you should be involved.
But I think you also need to learn to work together sweetly. This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Thank you for joining us, America. We're so glad you're here.
Open phones at 888-825-5225.

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Tell people about us.

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Speaker 1 subscribed, and left nice reviews and so on. Jan is with us in Tampa.
Hi, Jan. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 8 Oh, hi, Dave. What an honor.
Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 Sure. How can we help?

Speaker 5 Well,

Speaker 8 I've got a lot of things, but this is my main thing right now.

Speaker 8 I am an accountant who's learning embarrassingly late in life how to start to manage my own finances.

Speaker 8 And I've been trying to, I've been following your system. I'm working on trying to pay back my debts.

Speaker 8 And I was...

Speaker 6 Before I heard what you had to say about working with places like AmeriCorps and stuff, I was working with a debt settlement company, and that was horrible.

Speaker 6 I finally saw that the fees and stuff that they were charging, I can do better, you know, just on my own.

Speaker 1 So I quit with them.

Speaker 8 Okay, and then I negotiated like Synchrony, got that one paid off.

Speaker 6 And the next one I was going to, I wanted to call you before I did this, but I called Capital One.

Speaker 5 I hadn't talked to them in like a year and a half.

Speaker 8 And I'm kicking myself because I got set up on this 20-month debt repayment plan at like almost $300 a month.

Speaker 6 I mean, it's almost the full balance of the debt.

Speaker 8 And I thought then I, after I did that, I thought I heard you say on another show that

Speaker 8 you can settle it for, I mean, I understand paying back what I owe. Believe me, that's weighing on my conscience a lot, too.

Speaker 6 But I have heard you also speak to, you know, that you can settle these things for like quarters on a dollar.

Speaker 1 Yeah, if it's a two-year-old or one-year-old debt, yeah, they're, they're going to, in a lump sum, they won't do that on payment plan. How can we help you today, Jan?

Speaker 8 Well, do you think if I offered them $2,500?

Speaker 1 No, you have a payment plan now.

Speaker 8 Oh, no.

Speaker 1 They have you.

Speaker 1 I mean, if you quit paying those payments and they don't have anything coming in, they might

Speaker 1 if you want to do that. But if you can pay this out now that you've done it, pay it out.
But if you're not able to do it, then you're not able to do it.

Speaker 1 You settle a debt when you're not able to pay it.

Speaker 8 Well, I'm really not, but I mean, I mean, it's a hardship, but

Speaker 8 I do understand about it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, it's a balance. It's a balance in there.

Speaker 1 Are you able to,

Speaker 1 in the next 20 months, you know, pay your lights and water, food, work some extra jobs and pay your bills? If you are, then pay them.

Speaker 1 If you're not able to, and you're behind and you call them up and you offer them pennies on the dollar as a lump sum, which is what you're talking about, I recommend.

Speaker 1 But that's only for someone who can't pay. It's not a get-out-of-debt technique for someone who's able.
I have $10,000 in the bank. I owe $10,000.

Speaker 1 Write a check.

Speaker 1 Don't settle a debt like that if you took out the money on the credit card, right?

Speaker 4 Yeah, it gets down to ethics and character.

Speaker 1 It doesn't sound like she's trying to violate that, but I'm just trying to distinguish for her.

Speaker 4 I think she tried to get a deal for

Speaker 4 a payment plan, and now she regrets that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's exactly what it is. But that does also sound like you can pay it.

Speaker 1 It's hard, but you can pay it. If you can pay it and do your other stuff, then do it.
Finish it out. You'll be done.

Speaker 1 And maybe they waive some interest or something like that. That's fine.
Austin is in Spokane. Hi, Austin.
Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 3 Hello, sir. Thank you for having me.
I really appreciate it.

Speaker 1 Sure. How can we help?

Speaker 3 Yeah, so I'm kind of in a little bit of a dilemma. I've been with my current company.
I've been with them for 10 years now. I started with the company when I was in my mid-20s.

Speaker 3 Me and my wife were having a kid at the time. We're like, okay, this seems like a good option for us.
They have really good benefits. I've had good medical care.

Speaker 3 I have great time off, flexible schedule. But the pay has been

Speaker 3 lacking.

Speaker 3 And 10 years down the line, I still have the same job I started with.

Speaker 3 I was hoping with this particular company there'd be growth opportunities, ways to move up, and it it just hasn't happened.

Speaker 3 So I kind of feel like I worked myself or backed myself into a corner being with the company for so long.

Speaker 3 So I want to know, like, what do you think the possible options are to possibly move away from this company? Or because the benefits are so good, do I stick it out for a little bit longer?

Speaker 5 Kind of

Speaker 3 kind of my dilemma. Do I move forward or do I just move on?

Speaker 1 You move forward.

Speaker 4 Mentally, move forward, you know, looking through everything financially involved with the move, and then you make the move. But your soul has kind of left your body already around this job.

Speaker 4 You feel like you've hit a lid. And to answer your first question is, no, you didn't paint yourself in a corner unless you're not telling us something.

Speaker 4 You know, painting yourself in a corner is you have no options. You can't get out.
That's the very idea there with that. So the question is,

Speaker 4 go back to 10 years ago. Where did you see yourself going up the ladder?

Speaker 1 What did it look like?

Speaker 4 It was it in this particular field or was it in a different field, different industry?

Speaker 3 yeah so it was this particular field um so i currently work with i guess you can call a customer service role i've been doing that for 10 years and what i kind of thought is like this company is so big it's got a good name for itself if anything it's gonna look great on a resume right but what did you think you wanted to be doing where where would you like to be today let's answer that question if you could snap your fingers no risk what would you like to be doing right now

Speaker 3 I was like, I would, I mean, the dream scenario, I would love to own my own business someday.

Speaker 4 No, that's not what I, that's down the road. You went a little too far.
Give me the, you already answered the question and then you edited.

Speaker 1 I heard it.

Speaker 4 So what, what would, what's the spot on the ladder you'd like today had the 10 years gone the way you wanted it to? What would you be doing?

Speaker 3 If I'm doing customer service now, if I were in a management position in that same particular field,

Speaker 1 I would have been happy with that.

Speaker 4 All right. So you get to management by virtue.
In other words, you do good work and you're in a company that has a growth growth environment, meaning they do this. You've not grown for 10 years.

Speaker 4 One of the things I would challenge you as your coach, if we're sitting in a one-on-one session, is do you have good evidence as to why you haven't moved at all in 10 years?

Speaker 4 I'm not saying it's your fault, but I'm also not necessarily blaming the company. I just don't know enough to just make them the bad guys.

Speaker 4 But you need to know, homework assignment number one is, do I have some real clarity from my current leaders and through my records over the 10 years as to why maybe I haven't moved up the ladder?

Speaker 4 Let's make sure we're not walking around with a blind spot. Second thing is,

Speaker 4 is, okay, what positions are available to me in different companies, same industry, where I know for a fact, I've done my homework and they have a

Speaker 4 culture of growth. Like Ramsey Solutions moves people up.
You do a good job here

Speaker 4 and you stay with it. You're going to get an opportunity for growth here.
And so you're announcing that.

Speaker 1 We announced 32 promotions and staff meeting this morning.

Speaker 4 Exactly. Very normal.
So you know the industry, Zach. You know the industry and you know the position.

Speaker 1 Go get it.

Speaker 4 Don't overthink this. But before you move, we're going to have something that we're going to move into.
We're not going to jump and start looking.

Speaker 4 It's just never a good idea unless for some reason you've got all kinds of wealth.

Speaker 1 Is it too late at that company to go in and sit down with a supervisor and say, how can I add value?

Speaker 4 It might be. That's my next question.
Have you ever sat with a leader in your 10 years and said, hey, I want to grow. What are some opportunities for me?

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah, I have. I've had the same answer for quite a while, and we've had those conversations, and I have moved or done rotational roles that have only lasted like six to nine months.

Speaker 3 I've tried those opportunities, and they unfortunately haven't really accumulated or current into anything beyond that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I think Gabe's right.

Speaker 4 I think one more time I'd sit with him and go, hey, I've been here 10 years, and this is the kind of gig that I'd love to have. You've given me these opportunities.
Shoot me straight.

Speaker 4 Let me know where I stand. I can handle it.
We've been together a long time. Tell me, what are my options here to grow? And be okay with whatever the answer is.

Speaker 4 And that'll give you some clarity moving forward. But you're probably looking somewhere else is my guess.

Speaker 1 This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 You ever stood in the

Speaker 1 grocery store line

Speaker 1 nervous

Speaker 1 that when you spent that money it was going to cause check to bounce.

Speaker 1 I have.

Speaker 1 That's scary. Life's too short to live scary like that.
You want to stop it?

Speaker 1 You have to tell your money what to do instead of wondering where it went.

Speaker 1 That happened to me when we were going broke.

Speaker 1 I got a brand new baby, a toddler. and a marriage hanging on by a thread.
Sharon would have left, but she didn't have a car.

Speaker 1 I mean, we were not, it was not good at our house. And I remember, I can show you the Kroger.
I was standing in line.

Speaker 1 I'm writing a check, and I can't figure out in my head if when I buy these groceries, if there's going to be enough money to pay the electric bill, if the electricity is going to get cut off because I bought groceries.

Speaker 1 See, when you have a written, detailed plan, you'll never have that feeling again.

Speaker 1 You'll know,

Speaker 1 this is how much I have for groceries, and that means I have enough for lights and enough for water and enough for the rent and enough for the kids' school activity

Speaker 1 and enough for whatever, because you've got it written down. And you know,

Speaker 1 if I stay in this side, this number that's written down for this category, that means the other categories get to exist without any trouble. The stress goes way down.
The anxiety evaporates.

Speaker 1 The old word we used to use is you are empowered. Remember being empowered for things, Ken? That was a long time ago.
Yes. Scary word to a lot of people now.
Yeah, it's okay. You're empowered.

Speaker 1 You're in control of your money instead of it. Money is a great slave.
It's a horrible master. You need a written, detailed game plan for your money.
It's called a budget.

Speaker 1 And that's why we developed Every Dollar, because Every Dollar gets an assignment before the month begins, and you agree on it with your spouse.

Speaker 1 You can download the world's best budgeting app, Called Every Dollar, for free, in the App Store or at Google Play.

Speaker 1 Or you can

Speaker 1 click the link in the description if you're on podcast or YouTube. Kathy is with us in Indianapolis.
Hi, Kathy. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 7 Dave, thank you.

Speaker 12 Thanks so much for taking my call.

Speaker 7 I feel like I could use a group call with all of you all: Rachel, Jade, John, Ken, and Dave. But Dave, you're like my financial father.

Speaker 10 I think we're the same age, but I've been listening to you for a long time.

Speaker 7 So I waited until a day that you were here. So I think I have two main questions.
Can we afford to own two homes?

Speaker 15 And the second was, if we divorce, what considerations are there for our investment account?

Speaker 7 So just a tiny bit of background.

Speaker 5 We're living separately.

Speaker 11 at home. I'm 65.

Speaker 6 My husband's 67.

Speaker 7 I travel two to three weeks out of every month to go and help our daughter who lives in a different state with her tiny little ones with another one on the way.

Speaker 7 I've gotten involved in a church up there and starting to develop some friendships up there.

Speaker 10 My daughter and son-in-law, they want me to come as much as I want and to be there with them, but they don't really want to spend time with my husband.

Speaker 11 behavioral and emotional immaturity, I think I would say.

Speaker 13 Focus. Is that her dad?

Speaker 6 It doesn't seem to.

Speaker 1 No, I said, is that her father?

Speaker 7 Oh, is that her father? I'm sorry, yes.

Speaker 1 Okay, so she doesn't want a relationship with her father.

Speaker 15 She wants it no more than a couple days at a time.

Speaker 7 Because she's concerned about him being around the young kids.

Speaker 1 What's What's wrong with him?

Speaker 11 Well, I have involved our church

Speaker 15 and

Speaker 11 been tempted to talk to him, but I'd say it's

Speaker 12 emotional immaturity, spiritual immaturity, relational immaturity,

Speaker 6 focus on politics and things that just don't matter.

Speaker 7 And he has asked for forgiveness every time these things happen.

Speaker 1 What are these things? I mean he yells at people or what?

Speaker 6 I'm trying to think of a real quick example.

Speaker 11 He doesn't know when to quit.

Speaker 12 When people say I don't want to talk about that,

Speaker 8 he won't quit.

Speaker 11 And I've talked to my pastor about it and he's tried to set up times to talk with him, but he just says that he will go to counseling, but then it never happens.

Speaker 15 So we've been living separately in our own home here for about six months.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I do not like that your daughter and your grandkids are driving this.

Speaker 1 You owe your marriage more than that. How long have you been married?

Speaker 12 Oh, we've been married for 41 years.

Speaker 15 And maybe I'm not expecting that.

Speaker 1 You need to go. You, without your daughter's input, I'm tired of her input already.

Speaker 1 You need to go sit down with a counselor and start talking to the counselor about how to talk to your husband of 40 years

Speaker 1 that you're going to require him to sit down in counseling with you, and you need to be able to give some words to that

Speaker 1 for you to stay in the marriage.

Speaker 15 Okay, well, and I put boundaries around things, and I may have, I think maybe I jumped ahead.

Speaker 7 This has just been getting progressively worse.

Speaker 1 Yeah, because

Speaker 1 you ran off to another city for three weeks at a time and griped with your daughter about how bad a man this is that you've been married to for 40 years. Of course, it's not getting better.

Speaker 11 Well, and I hate to correct you there.

Speaker 15 I really do, but that is not how it's panned out.

Speaker 11 And

Speaker 1 I'm going to,

Speaker 11 well, yeah, I'm trying to be careful here

Speaker 12 because this has been ongoing for years and years.

Speaker 7 And my going there so much has just recently started to pick up because of the need there.

Speaker 15 I am not running away from my home here and my responsibilities here.

Speaker 15 And I'm confident of that, and my master's

Speaker 13 confident of that.

Speaker 1 All right. Then

Speaker 1 you guys have to decide if you're going to be married, and then you need to decide that. And then you'll decide whether you're going to do stuff.

Speaker 1 No, I would not try to live in two different cities and act like we're not married when we're still married. That would be suicidal relationally, emotionally, financially.

Speaker 5 Yes.

Speaker 11 So I'm, you know, deciding our home here is paid off.

Speaker 1 When you divorce, you turn your balance sheet into a business.

Speaker 1 And you're just going to look at what we own and what we owe, and that's going to be split.

Speaker 1 And so you guys started thinking about that.

Speaker 13 Yes, and I have.

Speaker 15 And

Speaker 15 I contacted I have my investment account, the $1.3 million with

Speaker 15 one of the brands.

Speaker 1 And I went to another one of the brands to have because I'm right now 90 10 in stocks and then bonds and you don't need to move anything until you decide if it's what's going to be sold exactly exactly so right now you need to decide first thing we got to do is just add it all up and start talking to a divorce attorney and how much of that's going to be yours how much of it's going to be his because in most states it's down the middle Right.

Speaker 7 It's 50-50 here. And he says, my husband says he understands that, I mean, I've managed all that.

Speaker 11 I've built it.

Speaker 7 We've done it together. But he said, you know, you deserve more than that.

Speaker 11 But I said, well, beyond that, we just need to figure out what we're going to do.

Speaker 7 And they worked out this plan for me with a 50-50 split, but with it changing from 90, 10 stocks and bonds to 70, 30 stocks and bonds.

Speaker 6 So I had a question for you about that.

Speaker 7 I was thinking about going with a second company, but they do individual stocks.

Speaker 6 And I know that that is generally,

Speaker 1 you do not do that no i wouldn't do any of that i think you got a whole lot bigger plant problem than whether you're in stocks or bonds honey in a marriage of 41 years you need to think about and you all need to concentrate on that and you need to put a bow on that one way or another either we're in a healing mode um or we're in an ending mode when it ends you take your poker chips off the table then you sit down and you know you can go to Ramsey Solutions and click on Smart Vestor Pro.

Speaker 1 They'll sit down and put you in some mutual funds is what I would do. It's pretty simple.
I wouldn't be in stocks, I wouldn't be in bonds, I wouldn't be in 70-30, I wouldn't be in 90-10.

Speaker 1 I'd be 100% in mutual funds. That's what I'm in.

Speaker 1 And you've been listening to me, you already knew that.

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 1 wow, that's a sad place you're in, honey. Real sad.
This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personalities, my co-host. This is the last segment on the podcast and on YouTube.
If you want to pick up the next segment, all you do is go to Ramsey Network app.

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Speaker 1 You can send emails and it's a hundred percent free there's not a subscription level on it at all we're not selling a subscription it's a completely free app the Ramsey Network app be sure and join it put that on your phone start listening using in that using that to consume this show Nicholas is in Washington DC hi Nicholas how are you

Speaker 1 I'm good how are you Dave better than I deserve what's up

Speaker 3 So I just graduated college, took my last final today, and I have a job offer for, but I've actually taken already, for $130,000 a year.

Speaker 1 You graduated from college and took $130,000. What's your degree in?

Speaker 3 Computer science.

Speaker 1 Way to go, dude. Man.

Speaker 1 Look at you.

Speaker 1 Wow, okay.

Speaker 3 And on that note, I have absolutely no idea

Speaker 3 how to

Speaker 3 structure this income and how I can save to the best. I have the blessing that I can live with my parents for a while after starting this job.

Speaker 3 So I think for the first six months, I'll probably be living with them and just saving up as much as I possibly can. But I'd love your insight on whether I should be maxing out my 401k, any other

Speaker 1 tools.

Speaker 3 I do have debt. I have roughly $30,000 of debt.

Speaker 1 Okay. All right.
Here's what I would do in your situation.

Speaker 1 You need to do a detailed written plan, and you're good at detailed written plans with computer science degree, of what you're going to do with every dollar before the month begins.

Speaker 1 Now, you do not know exactly what your take-home pay is yet, but you can probably get pretty close. Okay.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I would not stay with your parents six months to save money. I would stay there three months until you found a nice place and get out.

Speaker 3 So I know that roughly my take-home after taxes will be around $7,500 a month.

Speaker 1 Okay, perfect. Then budget that out.
Stay there three months and find you an apartment and get the heck out, man. Start your life.

Speaker 3 I'm ready to start my life.

Speaker 1 But on that note,

Speaker 3 what should I be aiming to pay for rent? Because this is a very expensive area, kind of hence the large

Speaker 3 salary.

Speaker 3 And one-bedroom apartments in the area of where I work go for around $2,500. Is that something you think I can afford?

Speaker 1 Nope. You need to bid a fourth of your income.
Fourth of your take-home pay.

Speaker 3 Fourth of the take-home, okay.

Speaker 1 So you may want to get a two-bedroom, get a roommate, or you may want to live a little bit further out with a bit more of a commute than you were looking at.

Speaker 1 You're not going to be able to afford to live in the cool area of DC.

Speaker 1 Not on $130,000. It's not a $130 grand budget.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 1 But you can live in the area. You just can't live in the cool kids' area.

Speaker 1 And that's where the apartment was.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it sure was.

Speaker 3 Do you think I should be maxing out my 401k?

Speaker 1 No, I think you need to dump everything you got on the 30K until you get ready.

Speaker 3 And then after that?

Speaker 1 Then after that, I would start, I'd make sure you you had an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses. After that, I'd start putting 15% of my income away towards retirement in my 401k.

Speaker 1 And really, you should be there within a year. But let's take this year and get the 30K and build an emergency fund of 20,000 cash.
Start talking about maybe buying a house someday.

Speaker 1 And let's start putting money in our 401k at that point. I'm going to send you a copy of the book, The Total Money Makeover, which outlines what we call the baby steps, Nicholas.

Speaker 1 And it'll walk you through every little bit of that and jump online and get every dollar of the budgeting app for free and get started on laying out your budget and give every dollar a game plan before the month begins.

Speaker 1 But completely concentrate on the debt until it's gone. And, you know, two to three months at your parents' house is plenty in this situation.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I was going to say, Nicholas, the one thing you're going to need to fight is that you've been in college, presumably for four years, and you got a dorm room or an apartment in the cool part of town, and life's been a big, big blast and you've done well and you got a good job.

Speaker 4 Now it's the time to start being patient and I think the roommate living further out, learning how to manage your money, you're going to be so far ahead if you just can be patient and not try to keep a portion of that college lifestyle going.

Speaker 4 This is the real world now and that means not

Speaker 4 getting an apartment in an expensive place, getting one, two, maybe three roommates for a year, whatever that is.

Speaker 4 So that's my encouragement to you is now things things are changing and the mindset has to change with it or else you're going to feel like, oh, I should have this and I've been doing this.

Speaker 4 Well, you can't afford to do that. It's a very different world now.

Speaker 1 Now, we have this sense

Speaker 1 when we take a step up, when we level up, and you're leveling up by graduating and getting a great job.

Speaker 1 It's human nature to have a sense of going, I deserve. That's right.
And let me help you with

Speaker 1 what you deserve. You don't deserve anything unless you can pay for it.

Speaker 1 That's your measure of whether you deserve it or not. I, no, I don't, I don't, no,

Speaker 1 I don't care. If you have the money, you deserve it.
If you don't have the money, you don't deserve it. You haven't made enough yet.

Speaker 1 And that slows your butt down and pushes you into a contentment zone, which goes, okay, and then I'm going to live like no one else so that later I can live and give

Speaker 1 like no one else. Nick's in West Palm Beach.
Hi, Nick. How are you?

Speaker 18 Hey, Dave, I'm doing good. How are are you guys doing?

Speaker 1 Better than I deserve. What's up?

Speaker 18 So I'm in a little predicament here. I've been running my business.
I started about eight years ago. It's a party and event rental company.

Speaker 3 We're located in South Florida.

Speaker 18 And I have just recently, probably within the last six months, kind of been listening to a lot of your videos and watching you guys consistently, starting the baby steps.

Speaker 18 I've had about a little over $70,000 in in debt between a vehicle

Speaker 18 or two as well as just mainly credit card debt.

Speaker 18 Within the last six months, I've paid off over half of that. I have about $30,000 in debt remaining with $22,000 of that being

Speaker 18 one of my vehicles and then about $8,000 left in credit cards. And now with it being December,

Speaker 18 I've got Christmas bonuses that need to be going out, you know, that I'm normally paying every year and that, you know, I've got about 10 employees total.

Speaker 18 And I'd say four or five of them have been with me for a few years now and are used to, you know, that Christmas bonus.

Speaker 18 This year, I've just been, you know, I've been tightening everything up and I'm just in a predicament right now and wondering, you know, if I should pay those Christmas bonuses or if I should have a conversation with my employees about

Speaker 18 I've got the money. Yeah, you know, I've I definitely have the money to pay them for sure right now.

Speaker 1 How big a bonus are we talking about?

Speaker 18 Not a lot.

Speaker 18 I would say over the 10 employees, they're all going to be small bonuses, maybe totaling up to $3,000.

Speaker 1 Okay. How much money do you have?

Speaker 18 I mean, right now, just liquid in the bank between, you know, my personal accounts and my business accounts. I'd say approximately maybe 35 grand.

Speaker 4 So you're just wanting to save the three this year to keep going towards all this debt elimination?

Speaker 4 That's your why?

Speaker 18 Right.

Speaker 18 That's my why.

Speaker 1 How do you think they're going to react to that?

Speaker 4 What do you think their real reaction is going to be if you told them today?

Speaker 18 Definitely some disappointment for sure. I'm sure they're kind of counting on it.
It's later in the month than I would have normally paid it to because I'm just, you know what I mean?

Speaker 4 Have you ever seen Christmas Vacation with Chevy Chase?

Speaker 18 No, I haven't, unfortunately.

Speaker 1 No. Wow.

Speaker 4 You need to watch that tonight. That didn't go well when he didn't pay the bonuses and they gave him the jelly of the month club.

Speaker 1 These people are counting on it.

Speaker 4 Listen, it's a comedy, but people are counting on this, and you waited way too late to change this on them. It's my opinion.

Speaker 1 I wouldn't do that for what money you think you're going to do. And you have the money.
You'll lose them.

Speaker 4 That's right.

Speaker 1 You have the money. Right.

Speaker 1 It's not like you have $30,000 in bonuses and $30,000.

Speaker 1 Sure.

Speaker 1 That's not, you have the money. It's not going to kill you.
It's really not even going to change your get out of debt plan.

Speaker 1 You're just more cognizant now where money's going, and that's a good thing. But in terms of communicating with the team on something like that, you should have communicated before Thanksgiving.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 1 And if the truth is, we're not profitable enough to pay out bonuses this year, but that's not even the truth here. Truth is you have the money.
You just want to put it on debt instead.

Speaker 1 And so in that case, no, I think part of running your business is a small,

Speaker 1 and these are small, Christmas bonus. And yeah, just be, I definitely would give that out.
I'd give it out today, by the way, in cash. As soon as you get off the phone, this is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 16 What up, what up? It's Dr. John Deloney from the Dr.
John Deloney Show with some amazing news.

Speaker 16 The latest episode of United States of Anxiety is available right now exclusively on the Ramsey Network app.

Speaker 16 This docuseries follows real people from my show as they embark on a 90-day journey to transform their lives, and I personally walk alongside them every step of the way.

Speaker 16 Okay, now, here's a sneak peek of what the new episode is all about and don't forget to click the link in the show notes to download the app

Speaker 1 What's up Kelsey?

Speaker 19 So I've lived with crippling anxiety for as long as I can remember how do I stop it from constantly coming up in different areas of my life what does crippling anxiety mean paint me a picture of that

Speaker 16 All right, so you ready to jump in?

Speaker 14 I'm ready to jump in.

Speaker 20 We're gonna check in with Kelsey 30 days, 60 days, 90 days.

Speaker 19 I cannot even function because I'm just crying.

Speaker 19 My mom left us when I was four. I truly felt like for a while I had no family.

Speaker 4 She's experiencing things that really hurt a long time ago.

Speaker 1 Tell me about this boy.

Speaker 19 He triggers me a lot. Scared of losing Paul, scared of doing the wrong thing, scared of not being enough.

Speaker 20 It just feels like it would be exhausting to be Kelsey.

Speaker 17 It is. Whenever somebody's playing whack-a-mole with their anxiety, when it just keeps moving, that tells me the underlying system's not okay.

Speaker 19 How do I get my inner child out of this relationship? Because I feel like she's running the show.

Speaker 4 One of two people that's supposed to never leave took off.

Speaker 1 I was this.

Speaker 1 I was this burden. You burden, that's right.

Speaker 17 To the one person

Speaker 1 who should carry it, all of it.

Speaker 20 Did you ever tell that little girl that it wasn't her fault?

Speaker 19 I don't know what to do.

Speaker 1 You either have to choose to let this guy love you or you got to choose to let this guy go.