Don’t Overcomplicate Building Wealth, Keep It Simple

Speaker 1 Live from the Ramsey Network, this is the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships.

Speaker 1 I'm Ramsey Personality George Campbell, joined by my good friend Dr. John Deloney.
We're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. You call us.

Speaker 1 We'll try to help you take the right next step for your life, your relationships, and your money. Lucas is going to kick us off in Grand Junction, Colorado.
What's going on, Lucas?

Speaker 2 Hey, how are you guys?

Speaker 3 Doing well. How are you? How can we help? Good.

Speaker 2 I'm trying to sit down and go through a budget and start making a monthly plan. My wife and I have both gone through Financial Peace University together.
My income has changed since we've done that.

Speaker 2 I get paid basically daily. So how do I kind of set up my monthly budget for something like that? Because my budget or my income is very,

Speaker 2 it fluctuates a lot from summertime to wintertime. So,

Speaker 2 how do I set up a budget for something like that?

Speaker 3 What do you do that you get paid daily? Are you slinging rocks?

Speaker 2 I'm a farrier. I trim and shoe horses.

Speaker 3 Oh, dude. Okay.

Speaker 3 I get paid. That's amazing.

Speaker 3 Yeah, that's way better than selling drugs. I love that.
Okay, good.

Speaker 3 So,

Speaker 3 do people call you out to their farms and you go out there and take care of them?

Speaker 3 or their horse ranches?

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 1 Dude, good on you, man. Awesome.
So, I love that you're still doing a budget because a lot of people think, well, budgets are for people with consistent incomes.

Speaker 1 And you definitely need a budget if you have an irregular income. And so, here's how I would set it up: you need to make a prioritized spending plan.

Speaker 1 So, you know, it's not going to be a zero-dollar month. So, what's been your worst month in the last six months?

Speaker 2 My worst month, probably

Speaker 2 5,000 gross.

Speaker 1 Okay. And what's been your best month?

Speaker 2 $16,000.

Speaker 1 Amazing. And what are your monthly expenses? What do you need to just cover all of your basic bills? Food, utilities, housing, transportation, insurance?

Speaker 2 About $6,500.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 1 So you can do what I call a peaks and valleys fund. So if you have a great month, like $16,000, well, you don't need it all.

Speaker 1 So we can park that in a separate savings account to cover the leaner $5,000 month where we're $1,500 short. Make sense? Okay.

Speaker 1 And as you go out, you know, go throughout the month tracking your transactions, you're going to prioritize what you need to cover. So first up, food, utilities, housing, transportation.

Speaker 1 If we have all of those covered and we still have money left over, we go to the next priority and the next priority.

Speaker 1 And at the very bottom will be the, you know, life's little luxuries, your subscriptions or whatever the fun things are, your hobbies.

Speaker 1 Okay. And that way you know you're going to cover all the major bills.
And if you're able to cover more and put extra in savings and hit your other goals, that's great.

Speaker 1 But that'll allow you to make sure that you don't have a month where you're behind and then need to go into debt to do it.

Speaker 3 Hey, Lucas, hang on the line here because I want to ask George a question on your behalf.

Speaker 3 So George, so you have a Pecin Valley fund, and let's say it feels like in my head, it would be smart to have a line that when you cross that line, there's a chunk of money that you decided what to do with.

Speaker 3 So let's say his lowest month he had last year was five, his highest was 16, but he averages 12. Right.
And so he's going to continue to move this money over there and money over there.

Speaker 3 Does it make sense to say, okay, when we get 25,000 or 10,000, we're going to stop and either move that to X or move that to Y? Like, you see what I'm saying?

Speaker 1 Well, this largely depends on where you're at in the baby steps, Lucas. So are you debt-free with a fully funded emergency fund or are you working to pay off debt?

Speaker 2 We're working to pay off some debt. We don't have a bunch.
The only thing we have left is like two small personal loans and a vehicle loan in the house.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 1 And what do you have in savings right now?

Speaker 3 For your business.

Speaker 2 Right now we're still just got through a remodel, so we're less than $1,000 in savings right now.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 1 So your A1 goal with any extra money beyond basic bills is to fill up that $1,000 starter emergency fund. Beyond that, any extra money beyond your basic bills goes toward debt payoff.

Speaker 1 Then once you have the debt paid off, it goes toward the emergency fund. Then when you're in baby step four through seven, you have more margin.

Speaker 1 And so like John said, this is where you can decide: hey, our next goal is going to be paying off the house early, or we're going to just stash money away to where maybe you have an extra three months of expenses to cover you for those leaner months.

Speaker 1 Okay. Okay.
The way to go. You're crushing it, man.
Five to sixteen grand is quite the uh spread there.

Speaker 3 Yeah, dude.

Speaker 3 I follow an Instagram account, and all that guy does on this Instagram account is takes horses' hooves that are like infected or messed up, and he cleans them all up and makes them amazing.

Speaker 3 And I'm just mesmerized by it. It's so cool, dude.
How long have you been doing that?

Speaker 2 It's a fun job. About 10 years.

Speaker 3 How many times have you been kicked?

Speaker 3 A lot. A lot.

Speaker 3 Not by your wife, but by your horses.

Speaker 3 Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 You ever encounter people, Lucas, who maybe should sell the horse? Just curious.

Speaker 2 All the time.

Speaker 1 Thank you for that. That's all we needed.
No further questions, Your Honor.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 3 There's people who have horses who don't need it.

Speaker 2 There's a lot of people who don't deserve horses and don't need them.

Speaker 3 Wow. All right, so I got you one more equine question.

Speaker 1 It's an equine theme hour here on the Ramsey show.

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah, on the Ramsey Show. Listen, Lucas, we got you.
We helped you out, so you have to help us out.

Speaker 3 There's a mystique around horses. Is it real?

Speaker 3 Are they like a magic animal in some sense?

Speaker 2 You know, in a way, they are. There's a connection that you get between a person and a horse that actually does have that connection.

Speaker 2 They're a personal animal. They're kind of like a, you know, in a way, kind of like a dog.
They get to know their person, and you have a connection with that horse, and there's a lot to them.

Speaker 2 But yeah, they're a very sensitive animal. They can feel every emotion that you're feeling, and it adds to

Speaker 3 experience around them.

Speaker 3 If somebody had a deep personal connection with a horse and they were struggling financially and somebody just popped in their ear and was like, you should sell that horse right away, that'd be kind of cruel, right?

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's hard to do. I mean, I've had some pretty lean financial years and it's

Speaker 2 hard to think about getting rid of the horses.

Speaker 3 There you go. Just wanted to make sure

Speaker 3 I have a friend named Corge Jamil, and he did that one time, and it was pretty tough.

Speaker 1 At least it wasn't in front of millions, though.

Speaker 3 Yeah, it was in front of a whole bunch of people. But hey, Lucas, I appreciate the work that you're doing, brother.
That's awesome.

Speaker 1 Thanks, man. Thanks for the call.
It's a great question, John. A lot of people, when they look at budgeting, they opt out because they go, well, that's for a certain type of person.

Speaker 1 It's for broke people. It's for people who have a lot of money.
It's for people who have consistent income.

Speaker 1 And what I found over time is it's for people who want to know where their money's going and want more of it.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And I don't, you can tell me if I'm wrong here, but it feels like, especially as the world has moved almost overnight to this gig economy where everybody's got a job and then a side hustle and then another side hustle.

Speaker 3 If you're making $250,000 and you're going to fudge here and around the edges, okay.

Speaker 3 If the $14 you just earned that hour is going to a bill, you have extra, you better be paying attention to every dollar, right? Like watching every penny. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And so it matters more when you're that type.

Speaker 3 Yes. And so if you're getting paid every day like he is, if you are working these gig jobs where you're measuring mileage and you're,

Speaker 1 it, it's on to you to pay extra special attention to every penny every dollar wherever you happen to be um and that's how you're going to get ahead with especially on this day-to-day by day by day by day basis absolutely and i see lucas is still on the line so i'm going to gift him one year of every dollar premium and i hope that helps him with this or you know inconsistent budgeting we have a paycheck planning tool as part of the premium version john where you can lay out all your bills it'll show you when your money is going to run out based on when all your bills hit so it's a super helpful tool to visualize then you can start moving your bills around and figure out okay i need more money after the bills and before it.

Speaker 1 So I don't run out. So there's a lot of cool features there.
Go check out Every Dollar.

Speaker 1 You can download it for free in the App Store or Google Play or just click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast.

Speaker 1 And whether you are broke, you consider yourself wealthy, you have regular, consistent income, irregular income from commission jobs, you need a budget.

Speaker 1 If you are a human being who has bills to pay, you need a budget yesterday. So go download Every Dollar.
It will solve that problem.

Speaker 1 And then your job is to stick to it, to track those transactions, and to take control of your money instead of it controlling you. This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camela, joined by Dr.
John Deloney. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Speaker 1 Christina joins us next in Florence, South Carolina. Christina, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 2 Hey, thank you guys so much. I appreciate your time.

Speaker 1 What's going on?

Speaker 2 So in 2018, I was diagnosed with breast cancer and

Speaker 2 was out of work. And unfortunately, over the time period that the company I worked for allowed, so after 20 years of service, they called and told me they no longer needed me.

Speaker 2 So I have 401k with that company. I

Speaker 2 know I should have done something with it, and I did not.

Speaker 2 So, it is sitting in an account, and I was just diagnosed in the past year with stage four cancer.

Speaker 2 So, now instead of preparing for my retirement, I am looking to see the best way possible to leave this money for my family.

Speaker 2 I want to make sure that tax-wise or whatever penalty that's going to be made,

Speaker 2 it gets the less hit. I would like them to have the most of it.

Speaker 3 So how certain of you

Speaker 3 about your new contracted timeline for just being around?

Speaker 2 I would say

Speaker 2 I've only been given that by one doctor, and I would say we're looking at within a year.

Speaker 2 Wow.

Speaker 3 Do you feel pretty confident about that?

Speaker 2 I believe in a big God, and I know that he can do big miracles.

Speaker 2 So no, I don't believe that. However, I am doing everything possible to make sure if anything does happen,

Speaker 2 that I leave my family,

Speaker 2 you know,

Speaker 2 having the most that they can.

Speaker 3 Yeah. You're a pretty amazing woman, Christina.

Speaker 1 Yeah, to be thinking about your 401k beneficiaries when you're going through something like this speaks volumes to the kind of person you are.

Speaker 3 I want you to,

Speaker 3 I'm going to assume you've got longer than a year, year, but I'm going to pretend like you are that we're going to go ahead and do those things just in case, okay?

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 2 Thank you.

Speaker 3 I want you to never say the words I should have again.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 3 Literally, life is too short.

Speaker 2 Okay. You're right.

Speaker 3 We're not going to say I should have, I needed to. We're just going to do the next right thing.
Okay. Okay.

Speaker 3 So we're going to let old Christina, who is trying to survive, getting hit in the mouth with a cancer diagnosis the first round, we're going to let her off the hat. She's tired.
Okay. Is that cool?

Speaker 3 Thank you. That's cool.
So no more shoulds. It's just going to be the next right thing.
I'm assuming you're a list maker. Have you made a list of all the things you need to go do?

Speaker 2 I have, yeah. Okay.

Speaker 3 I want you to put at the top of that list

Speaker 3 things that bring me joy and laughter.

Speaker 3 Okay. And I don't know what that means for you.
For me, it would probably just be Will Farrell shows and playing with babies and hanging out with my kids and my wife.

Speaker 3 I don't, and puppies, everybody's different. Okay.
George would just be smashing Android phones. That would bring him the most joy he could possibly have.
Not a bad idea. Right.

Speaker 3 But I want you to put that at the top.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 3 The greatest gift you can give to your loved ones in this season is to find joy where you can. Okay.
And then we'll do these tasks as they pop up. And this is one of those tasks.
Okay.

Speaker 3 I would recommend you get a

Speaker 3 Smart Vestor Pro if you haven't already.

Speaker 3 and just consolidate this stuff as quickly as you can into a single account.

Speaker 3 And if

Speaker 3 you've got multiple, like when I moved to Ramsey, I had left three or four other jobs. I had 401s everywhere.
So I called my Smart Investor Pro. We gather them all up into one central place.

Speaker 3 And it took like, I mean, he did it in no time.

Speaker 1 And that's a direct rollover. So you're not actually withdrawing the money.
You're just directly rolling it over to an IRA from that 401k. So there won't be any penalties or taxes there.

Speaker 1 Do you know if the 401k was traditional or Roth?

Speaker 3 I don't. Okay.

Speaker 1 There might be a little bit of homework just to figure out, you know, if it's traditional 401k, that means you you haven't paid taxes on the money yet.

Speaker 1 And so you're, you know, whoever inherits it will have to pay income taxes on it. That's fine.
Someone was going to have to do it at some point.

Speaker 1 If it's Roth, it means you already paid taxes on it, and therefore when they inherit it, it'll be tax-free.

Speaker 1 Okay. But there's not going to be penalties or anything like that with an inherited retirement account.
Now,

Speaker 1 who would be the beneficiary on this account? Who would be getting this money if you passed?

Speaker 2 It would be my husband and a daughter.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 1 So if it's your husband, there's different rules. He will likely be able to roll that money into his own account, and there won't be the 10-year withdrawal period.

Speaker 1 If it goes to a non-spouse, they'll have 10 years to withdraw the funds based on the Secure 2.0 Act. And again, a Smart Investor Pro can walk you through all the nerdy ins and outs of this.

Speaker 1 The key is just to check who is the beneficiary of this account.

Speaker 1 Is it the person I want?

Speaker 2 Okay. So I should

Speaker 2 probably my husband if I want them to have access to the money within 10 years.

Speaker 1 Yes. If it was me, I would, unless you have reason not not to give this money to your husband, that would be the next in line I would be passing this money to.

Speaker 3 Yes. And by splitting it, you're going to make things way more complicated for him when you pass away.

Speaker 1 Do you have a will in place?

Speaker 2 I'm working on it.

Speaker 3 Okay. Hold on.
No, before the weekend is over, at least go to Mama Bear Will and get a will, okay?

Speaker 1 Okay. Yep.
And we'll hang on the line. We're going to help you out.
Kelly's going to hang on the line, and we're going to gift you as much as we can to help you with this process.

Speaker 1 But Mama Bear Legal Forms, they're the folks that John and I have our wills through. It's online, it's all ironclad, it's legit.
And so it will be.

Speaker 3 That's who I got it when I moved from Texas to Tennessee. And I went and got a Mama Bear will because I've moved states.

Speaker 3 And then I recently have sat down with an estate planning attorney, my wife and I did, and we went through the whole rigamaroo. And he was awesome.
He's awesome. He's here in Nashville.

Speaker 3 But getting a thing right now, just in case,

Speaker 3 and then sit down with an estate planning attorney with you and your husband. Okay.

Speaker 3 And earlier, I want to reiterate, George asked you, is this in a Roth or is it traditional 401? And your response was this,

Speaker 3 I don't know.

Speaker 3 You're not failing anything.

Speaker 1 It's not a pop quiz. Okay.

Speaker 3 99% of America doesn't know the answer to these questions. That's why this show exists.
Okay. Okay.
Okay.

Speaker 3 The least amount of beating yourself up you can do over the next year, the better.

Speaker 1 Okay. And the least amount of brain calories you can spend on stupid stuff like this, the better.
And And that's why it's wise to reach out to a smart vessel pro who goes, hey, don't worry about it.

Speaker 1 Let me explain it to you in a way that it can teach you. You can understand it, but you don't have to worry about it yourself.

Speaker 2 Okay. All right.

Speaker 3 Is that cool? What else we got? What else we can help you with?

Speaker 1 Do you have any term life insurance in place?

Speaker 2 Through my husband's job, I do.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 3 And you probably wouldn't qualify for any others. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 The big question is, is my family going to be okay if something were to happen to me? And it sounds like the answer is yes, they're going to be okay.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 One more question is,

Speaker 2 is there a penalty? Someone told me that there's a law that passed that if you

Speaker 2 if something like this happens to you, that you can withdraw your money early with no penalty.

Speaker 1 There probably would probably constitute as a kind of a hardship withdrawal. I still wouldn't do it.
Okay. Even if you're able to.

Speaker 1 Are there pressing financial things that you guys are trying to pay off, debts, things like that?

Speaker 2 No, no.

Speaker 3 Okay. No, there's not.

Speaker 1 I would leave it sitting there because it's going to grow and continue to grow with compound growth. I don't want you to unplug that regardless of what the penalties are.

Speaker 1 You've worked really hard to establish this level of wealth for your family, and there's no need to withdraw it early.

Speaker 1 Okay, okay.

Speaker 3 All right.

Speaker 3 Can I give you one piece of magic advice? Yes.

Speaker 3 I don't think it's going to be, but you get a rare gift that most of us just blow by.

Speaker 3 You get a rare gift to at least consider this might be the last Christmas. You sit around the tree.

Speaker 3 Soak up every minute of it. Yes.
Every minute. Yes.
Go on the vacation. Go do the silly things.
Yep. Throw water balloons at your daughter when she gets home from school.
Do all the stuff.

Speaker 2 We're headed to New York in a week.

Speaker 3 Fine.

Speaker 2 Never done that before.

Speaker 3 It's amazing. Write the letter.
Make sure she's got something to read forever and ever and ever.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 3 You're a brave, brave, brave woman. Thank you for sharing your bravery with us.

Speaker 1 Thank you, Christina. We're pulling for you and we hope there's only good news in the future.
Call us back if we can help in any other way and hang on the line.

Speaker 1 Kelly's going to pick up and make sure that you have what you need with all the links and goodies to take the next steps.

Speaker 3 For all the men and women listening out here,

Speaker 3 we all have our last day and you just heard what bravery looks like. Someone who says, okay, it's coming.

Speaker 3 I want to make sure, whether I know what day it is or it may be 50 years in the future, I'm going to do the best I can to make sure those that I love who are left when I'm gone are taken care of.

Speaker 3 That's what that sounds like right there. Making the life song on the list.

Speaker 2 Awesome.

Speaker 1 This is The Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr.
John Deloney.

Speaker 1 Friendly reminder that you can watch the show live just south of Nashville, Tennessee, if you're making your way through town. We got a lovely audience here today.

Speaker 1 And as the holidays approach, if you're coming through, come visit us. The show is free to watch through the glass.
We're like zoo animals out here. We got free coffee and baked goods in the cafe.

Speaker 1 And you can leave with a free Ramsey show mug. So come see us.
We've got Mason up next in Henrietta, Oklahoma. What's going on, Mason?

Speaker 2 Hey, George and Dr. John.
How are y'all?

Speaker 3 Doing well. How are you?

Speaker 2 I'm pretty good, I'd say.

Speaker 2 So my question is,

Speaker 2 I have a sister and a cousin that are in a position in life where they're getting ready to start getting their first cars and jobs and things like that.

Speaker 2 And I've recently in the last couple of months started listening to the show and got really into it. And I haven't fully started the baby steps yet.

Speaker 2 I'm wanting to, I just haven't made that leave yet.

Speaker 2 And I'm just wondering how do I convince them because I can't do it with my live right now necessarily, but how would I convince them that doing things with cash and not worrying about credit scores and things like that are the way to go?

Speaker 1 So you're not doing the plan, but you want to convince others to do the plan? Is that the summary here?

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 1 You're excited about the plan, and you want them to be excited about the plan.

Speaker 3 Mason, this is the most America call I've ever received. Like, we really want to do a thing that none of us are doing.
So y'all do this thing.

Speaker 3 I think the,

Speaker 3 as the great country lyric goes, you say it best when you say nothing at all, Mason. Just start paying with cash.

Speaker 3 Just start getting connected with your cash.

Speaker 1 Your actions will speak louder than words. If you roll up in there like, y'all need to start paying cash and getting rid of your debts, how about you just go, yeah, what'd you do today?

Speaker 1 Oh, I paid off my car. Felt pretty good.

Speaker 3 How'd you do that?

Speaker 1 Well, I followed this plan. Then if they're interested, they'll listen.

Speaker 1 But I've never been able to convince someone of something they were not interested in. You just have to lead with intrigue.
And they have to go, tell me more about this.

Speaker 3 So, why haven't you started yet, Mason, if it's such a great plan?

Speaker 2 Well, I mean,

Speaker 2 I don't know. I just haven't.
I mean, I mean, I guess technically I'd be a big step one. I just haven't.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I've got the

Speaker 2 every dollar, and I've started the budget, and I'm getting stuff lined out. I just need to start putting that first thousand dollars together, and then I'll be going on it.

Speaker 3 I know, but you didn't answer my question. If this is so great that you want all your friends and family to get involved, why haven't you?

Speaker 2 Well, I don't know. I don't think hesitation would be it.
I think it's just,

Speaker 2 I don't know.

Speaker 3 I think today's your day.

Speaker 1 Yeah, where are you at financially?

Speaker 2 Not terrible.

Speaker 1 Great answer.

Speaker 3 I love the confidence there.

Speaker 1 I was like, hey, John, how's your marriage? And John said, not terrible.

Speaker 3 Not terrible. That means it's not great.

Speaker 1 So, how much money do you make

Speaker 2 um

Speaker 2 net maybe around uh forty thousand okay and how much debt do you have

Speaker 2 um about thirty eight thousand probably

Speaker 3 so mason that's a hundred percent leverage that qualifies as terrible

Speaker 3 it's not great

Speaker 1 how did you get into this mess you're you sound young how old are you

Speaker 2 22.

Speaker 1 oh yeah i was actually about where you were at 22. i was 36 000 in debt with student loans 4 000 in credit card debt.
And I was making about what you were making.

Speaker 3 Where's your debt come from, brother?

Speaker 2 So I have a truck. I have about

Speaker 2 $9,400 on.

Speaker 2 And then we were pretty close to paying off my wife's car. And then

Speaker 2 before we really got into all this, we got another car.

Speaker 1 You have three cars?

Speaker 2 No, just two. Well, the other one, no, the other one we got rid of now, but my truck and her car together is about 95 and 16.5.

Speaker 1 Is she working outside the home?

Speaker 2 Not as of yet. We got a nine-month-old little girl,

Speaker 2 and she's in her EMT school. So once she gets out of that, we're going to be looking into

Speaker 3 how much debt does she have.

Speaker 1 Does that include in your 38, or is that just your debt?

Speaker 2 Technically, it's we're married, but um technically,

Speaker 2 I guess it would all be mine or ours, but she's got a couple collections from before we were married that are like $1,000 or something.

Speaker 1 Well, her problems became your problems as soon as you said I do. So we got to get all of this list it all out, smallest to largest.
I don't care whose debt it is.

Speaker 1 I don't care what the interest rate is. List it out by smallest balance to largest balance.
And let's start attacking these debts aggressively with the debt snowball.

Speaker 2 Right. I got my every dollar budget set up as far as our monthly payments, and I just

Speaker 2 last night actually wrote everything down on paper to look at. And when you see between the small things and the vehicles, it adds up to 38,000.
It's, it's

Speaker 2 a little bit, takes your breath away a little bit, I think.

Speaker 3 Mason, how quick can you get a thousand bucks? Stop thinking about it and stop making lists. How quick can you get $1,000?

Speaker 2 A month, maybe.

Speaker 3 I bet you can do it faster. What can you sell?

Speaker 1 You got some tools?

Speaker 3 That thing that just popped in your head, that guitar, that tool thing,

Speaker 1 you can sell it. The four by four?

Speaker 2 I mean, honestly,

Speaker 2 we don't keep a whole lot of

Speaker 2 just things around.

Speaker 3 I want you to put two-week time limit on yourself.

Speaker 1 You got two expensive cars sitting in that driveway, man.

Speaker 3 That's more than half your income.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Just depreciating every single day, continuing to go further down in value.
I would consider selling your wife's car or yours, but it sounds like hers is worth more with a bigger payment. Yeah.

Speaker 2 True.

Speaker 1 And could you then downgrade in card and get something for six grand while you get out of debt and then upgrade later a year or two from now?

Speaker 1 That's the kind of sacrifice that would get your family talking. They're going, do you see what they sold her car and got this crummy little beater car? What are they doing?

Speaker 3 So when Dave says the words gazelle intense, he's been saying that forever.

Speaker 3 When a lion shoots out of the brush after a gazelle, a gazelle does not just sit around and like

Speaker 3 for a couple of months and like make a plan and like talk to the family. Like, are you guys going to run? Like, I'm thinking about running.
The gazelle just starts running for its life.

Speaker 3 And until you get that kind of intensity, brother,

Speaker 3 you're going to be 22. You're going to have a nine-month-old.
You're going to have a wife. And you're going to be scared to death.
Like you are right now. I can hear it on you.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I'm also nervous.

Speaker 3 I know.

Speaker 3 We're not that. Don't be nervous.
We're not that great. We're not that good.
But you see what I'm saying?

Speaker 3 Like, I want you to get fired up on behalf of the world you're going to create for your daughter that you didn't have, which is a house that doesn't owe anybody anything. Can you imagine that?

Speaker 1 Yeah. Is your wife even on board?

Speaker 3 That would be my A1.

Speaker 1 I don't give a rip what your Uncle Larry's doing. I want to know if your wife is willing to make the sacrifices needed.

Speaker 2 She definitely likes the idea of it, and we've talked about it. She makes fun of me a little bit because I talk about it so much because

Speaker 2 my head spins whenever I get involved in things like this, and I'm excited about something. My head spins and it's like a burnout, essentially.
I don't,

Speaker 2 you know, it's all throttle, no actual forward mover yet.

Speaker 2 And she just was telling me last night as well when we were talking about the debts that she wanted to start listening to the podcast and

Speaker 2 get into it and see what it's all about and

Speaker 2 so we can really kind of lock hands and go forward with it.

Speaker 3 Well, I'd think it's time to get on it, brother. I think it's time to get on it and tell her in two weeks I'm going to have $1,000.

Speaker 3 We're going to have an emergency fund and we're gonna stop using these credit cards and we're gonna start knocking them off we're gonna list our debt smallest to largest and get out of this mess no more games man i'm gonna change what you call ray tear this roof off like two dogs cage you hear that that's exactly right

Speaker 1 there we go

Speaker 1 there we go mason he knows what to do john it's just how do you find the motivation to do it it's like i love the idea of this ramsey man that sounds so cool getting out of debt and then you just get paralyzed yeah you have to lose yourself in the music in the moment you have to just own it yeah you know well it's weird to think about like you really do

Speaker 1 have one opportunity to seize everything you wanted.

Speaker 3 Well, I mean, you have multiple opportunities. You just have to go for it, right?

Speaker 1 I mean, this one life, this one crazy life you have, like, would you capture it or would you just let it slip?

Speaker 3 Oh, that's a good question. No, yeah.
You gotta, you gotta, you just have to, you have to lose yourself in the music in the moment. That's gazelle intensity.
I don't know what else to tell you.

Speaker 3 Go, go, go, go. Mason, stop sitting around thinking about it and talking about it.
Go get it. Yeah, you're sitting over there.

Speaker 1 Your palms are sweaty, knees weak, arms are heavy.

Speaker 3 Let's go, let's go, let's go.

Speaker 1 Let's just go for it, man. Debt freedom is on the other side.
What are you waiting for? Tell your wife, tell the kids, kids, hide the wife, hide the kids. I don't care.

Speaker 1 Just follow the Ramsey plan and call us back when you're debt-free, and we will celebrate with you, my man. This is The Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell and joined by Dr.
John Deloney. Open phones at 888-825-5225.
You know, John, over the years, we talk a lot about habits of the wealthy.

Speaker 1 Dave's always said, you want to be wealthy, do what wealthy people do. You want to be broke, do what broke people do.

Speaker 3 That's normal.

Speaker 1 So I thought it'd be fun to go through some of the actual habits so that people can identify where they're at.

Speaker 1 Whether or not they feel broke or feel wealthy, if you do these habits, you probably fall into these categories. You ready for this? So here's what broke people do.
Payday loans.

Speaker 1 We see these in zip codes with lower incomes. You see these paydays, they look like old pizza huts a lot of the time.
There's title max and payday loans. These are some of the worst.

Speaker 1 The interest rates, when you actually do the math, are astronomical, and it keeps people in a cycle of debt with these short-term, crazy crazy high loans. Interest rates average 400%.

Speaker 1 So it keeps them chained. Title loans is another one.
We mentioned that. High interest loans that require your car as collateral because you have the title of the car.
Buy here, pay here car lots.

Speaker 1 You've seen the we tote the note. That's never a good sign.
Cash advance, that's another short-term, high-interest loan against expected income. Are you seeing a theme here? Rent to own.

Speaker 1 So again, they go, well, I'll at least be paying towards something, but most of these have crazy hidden fees, and it might sound like a good idea, but it preys on people who have poor credit and can't come up with the money.

Speaker 1 And then finally, the lottery. This is known as a tax on the poor.
It's a regressive tax. And if you look at who's playing the lottery, it's not people making $100,000.

Speaker 1 It's people who can barely afford to cover the bills and they're hoping with false hope this is going to be their ticket out.

Speaker 3 So it sounds like here it's, it's a, like what you just described, if I was to like put a theme over it is desperate. I got to get through today.
It's desperation.

Speaker 3 Just got to get through this afternoon. Yeah.
Right.

Speaker 3 And if you are constantly waking up on a treadmill of, I got to get through this afternoon, I got to get through this afternoon, there's plenty of people out there that are ready to prey on you. Yeah.

Speaker 1 But here's the deal. Most people fall into this next category, which is average.
Okay. Normal.
And here's what average people do. They chase credit card rewards.

Speaker 1 How many times have we gotten this call?

Speaker 1 Well, really, you are spending so many brain calories chasing these rewards and the companies love it that you think you're winning, that you think you're gaming the system.

Speaker 1 Recent survey shows 23% of people didn't even redeem the rewards in the last 12 months. And there's a reason they went away from cash back.

Speaker 1 Now it's, well, you're going going to have a bajillion points. What are those points worth? It's like a Chuck E.
Cheese.

Speaker 1 You have all these tickets that can't even buy you one of those little sticky hands.

Speaker 3 That's ridiculous. And the number of things I've bought for Christmas for people online, I got so many emails back.
It's like, you've now got five points with whatever shoes and five X the point.

Speaker 3 Like, what? I don't even know what that is. It's all been gamified.
I don't know what you're talking about. Yep.

Speaker 1 The next one on the list, this is what average people do. They buy new cars and they go, well, John, it's going to last longer.
It's safer. It's more reliable for my family.

Speaker 1 Just admit it's for your ego. Yeah.
Just admit that. Used cars are less expensive.
You've already taken the hit on depreciation. You let someone else do it.

Speaker 1 We know new cars dropped 60% in value in the first five years. We know the average new car payment is now over $700 a month.

Speaker 1 And if you're leasing a car because you think it's somehow smarter, you're the dummy here. You're just renting very expensively and you're pre-paying all of that depreciation.
Yeah,

Speaker 3 you're paying the dealership's depreciation for them on the vehicle they just bought.

Speaker 1 But, John, I don't have to do anything. They like it includes the insurance.

Speaker 1 Okay, keep telling yourself that, buddy. Next up on the list is HELOCs.

Speaker 1 We've seen a big rise in HELOCs over the last few years because people have all this home equity and they get marketed to and they say, hey, this is basically a credit card attached to the value of your home.

Speaker 1 You're not actually borrowing money. You're borrowing it from yourself, John.
It's a great plan. And what are the calls we get?

Speaker 1 Hey, we're stuck because we have the HELOC on top of the mortgage and it's killing us.

Speaker 1 And most of these HELOCs have a variable interest rate and you're putting your home at risk and your family at risk by doing this.

Speaker 1 And of course, the next one, this is part of the, you know, the American stew here. We got the student loans.

Speaker 1 To give a 17 or 18-year-old hundreds of thousands of dollars for their business idea of getting this degree to hopefully

Speaker 1 marketplace audio.

Speaker 3 Oh my goodness. You're 18.

Speaker 3 I can even see on the air what I was passionate about when I was 18. I'm just glad I didn't get $100,000 to pursue it.

Speaker 1 We shouldn't. If it was a business, we'd all go at the bank.
The bank would go, this is a terrible business idea. What are you going going to do with a sociology degree?

Speaker 1 Socio stuff.

Speaker 1 Don't do this. There's no way out.
Student loans are not discharged by declaring bankruptcy. So you can't even get out of this thing through bankruptcy.

Speaker 1 The next one that we get a lot of, and this is a very middle-class move, is buying whole life insurance. And it's some dude from college who's like, hey, did you know this is what the wealthy do?

Speaker 1 They buy life insurance and they borrow against it and it's tax-free.

Speaker 1 It's a wealth hack. And I go, dude, this guy just scammed you into thinking that you should be investing through your your insurance.

Speaker 1 Think about how dumb that sounds, that you're using your insurance as an investment tool. It's super expensive.
And we know that term life is a fraction of the cost.

Speaker 1 And you can invest the difference and be way better off than giving someone fat commissions. And then finally, buy now, pay later.
This is one we see average people do.

Speaker 1 I just saw this on a website, John. It said it was $140

Speaker 1 for this pajama set. And then underneath, it had the girl math of 36 cents per night.

Speaker 1 They divided it out over a year and said well listen it's just a it's 36 cents a night and if you wear it every night i mean that you're basically making money off of that

Speaker 3 so like it's insane what they're doing with buy now pay later with the marketing tactics i like this here it says the average person asks not how much does that cost they ask

Speaker 3 um how much it's going to cost me a month and can i make these this pile of monthly payments can i can i make that less than i make and people feel like i'm i'm i'm spending less less than I make.

Speaker 3 I'm living less than

Speaker 3 I earn when their payments all add up to that, not the total purchases.

Speaker 1 That's right. Broke people ask how much down, how much a month.
Wealthy people just ask, how much? How much? What is the out-the-door cost? What is the total?

Speaker 1 And if I can't afford it today in full, in cash, don't do it. That's a surefire way to be wealthy.
So this is what wealthy people do. Number one, they don't pay interest.

Speaker 1 We've said this. Broke people pay interest.
Wealthy people earn it.

Speaker 1 That's what they're doing. They're investing in assets through real estate, through mutual funds, whatever it is, and that's giving them money.

Speaker 1 Broke people buy things that go down in value and take their money through interest. And so that is a big thing.
Their goal is to have assets, not liabilities.

Speaker 1 Another thing wealthy people do is they buy used cars.

Speaker 1 Even those that have the money to buy a new car in cash and they could light that money on fire on the kitchen table and it wouldn't mess with their world, they still go, why would I

Speaker 1 Why would I take the hit on depreciation instead of someone else and buy a four-year-old car? Here's what our millionaire study found. Most millionaires are driving Hondas and Toyotas.

Speaker 1 Not crazy luxury cars, not Lamborghinis.

Speaker 1 Our Millionaire theme hour backs this up. So we may as well have those hours sponsored by Toyota.
So reach out. Reach out.
Next one, John. This one won't shock you.
They pay off their mortgage.

Speaker 1 A lot of people think, well, wealthy people know that you can invest a difference and become very wealthy. So they hang on to their mortgages for 30 years and then refinance for another.

Speaker 1 Nope, not what we found. They get rid of their mortgage on average 10.2 years, our millionaire study found.
And so, following the baby steps, we teach: pay off your mortgage early.

Speaker 1 I don't care if the interest rate is 9% or 2%. Getting rid of that payment allows you to build more wealth, which brings us to the last one.
What do wealthy people do? They invest for the future.

Speaker 1 Eight out of 10 millionaires studied, invested in their company's 401k. Three out of four invested outside of the company plan.

Speaker 1 They know that investing over a long period of time instead of buying crap you don't need with money you don't have is the key to building wealth. That's it.
It sounds simple, but it's so

Speaker 1 nuanced because because you would think that wealthy people just do what they want and they're not really intentional. And that when you're broke, you have to be more intentional.

Speaker 3 We found the opposite. Well, it's like a, it's,

Speaker 3 I think the great lie in this country is one day you get to retire so you can, quote unquote, do nothing.

Speaker 3 And I think people consider wealth, I want to get enough money so I don't have to worry about it. And that's not how it works.

Speaker 3 And if I was to come up with a theme for the wealthy people, it is they don't make other people rich and they solve for peace. And so they, a wealthy person, you always want to ask, like,

Speaker 3 I want to be a billionaire by 40. And I always want to say, why? For what? So you can sleep at night? Okay.

Speaker 3 Give your body the opportunity to live in a home that nobody could take away from you. Then you're going to sleep, right? Then you're going to have peace.
And so they pay off their mortgage.

Speaker 3 They invest. They know that come what may, I'm going to be okay then.
No one can take my house now. It's this idea.

Speaker 3 It's they're thinking about tomorrow, not just this afternoon, not this this afternoon. But if you solve for peace, not for credit credit card points or not for the difference between my 2.9 and my,

Speaker 3 solve for,

Speaker 3 I'm telling you, man, there's a, you get wealthy for a reason. You don't get wealthy for the sake of wealthy.
And I think our culture has missed that completely.

Speaker 1 We have no why behind it.

Speaker 3 No why.

Speaker 3 We just judge ourselves. How much are you worth? It's a number.
And

Speaker 3 the answer to that question is never a number. And we always are like, okay, what are you worth? What are you worth? What are you worth? Instead of saying, why?

Speaker 3 And dude, I don't want, I don't care what my interest rate on my house is. I don't want anyone to be able to take my house away.
if I someone pay it off, right?

Speaker 3 And wealthy people solve for different problems.

Speaker 1 That's a good lesson right there. And if you want to see where you stack up, we have a free get-started assessment.
You can check out. It's a quick quiz to see if you're on track.

Speaker 1 Go check out the quiz. It's in the show notes, the description, wherever you're listening.
And click on the title, Are You On Track? With the baby steps. Good stuff, John.

Speaker 1 This has been the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Live from the Ramsey Network, this is the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships.

Speaker 1 I'm George Camel, joined by best-selling author, Dr. John Deloney, and we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225.
You call us up, and we'll give you the right next step for your life and your money.

Speaker 1 Sharon's going to kick us off in Sacramento, California. What's going on, Sharon?

Speaker 2 Well, I just have a quick question regarding

Speaker 2 transferring balances to a HELOC loan. And I'm not sure if that's a good idea because the interest rate on the HELOC is lower than the credit card.
So I wanted to get some input.

Speaker 1 So what's the balance on the credit card?

Speaker 2 It's about $2,300.

Speaker 1 And what's the balance on the HELOC?

Speaker 2 About $13,000.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 1 And what was the reason for both of these?

Speaker 3 What did you use it for?

Speaker 2 Well, the HELOC, two years ago, I had to replace my roof, and I didn't want to refinance at a higher rate, so I got the HELOC to replace my roof on my house.

Speaker 2 And then

Speaker 2 the credit card,

Speaker 2 the water pump in my car

Speaker 2 cost a little bit more than I anticipated, and I had to repair that about six months ago.

Speaker 1 How long have you been living on the edge like this with no money for emergencies?

Speaker 2 Probably for a pretty long time. I mean, I have $1,500 in my savings, but I didn't want to use it for the car.

Speaker 2 I didn't want to drain it to zero. Kind of scared me.

Speaker 1 Scares me to be in credit card debt at 25% interest, trying to transfer it to a 13% interest HELOC.

Speaker 2 Well, no, actually, my HELOC is at 4.5%,

Speaker 2 and my credit card is at 13%.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 1 So here's

Speaker 1 the hard truth, is that the interest rates aren't the problem.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 You can pay off $2,300 and the interest is going to be negligible.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 The harder thing we have to deal with is getting out of this cycle where we turn to debt and then try to move one debt to the other piece of debt to pay off the debt. I want you out of this cycle.

Speaker 1 Don't you want to be out of this rap maze?

Speaker 2 Oh, absolutely. I spent all last year paying off four other credit cards.
So, I mean, I was doing the baby steps before I knew about the baby steps.

Speaker 1 So what if instead of transferring the balance and paying the balance transfer-free to move it to the HELOC, to hope to pay off the HELOC, what What if we just said, I'm done?

Speaker 1 I'm going to pay off the card and then cut up the card. And I'm not going to go into credit card debt again.

Speaker 1 I'm going to build an emergency fund and I'm going to get out of this HELOC and I'm going to start a maintenance sinking fund for all the things I know are coming up.

Speaker 1 I want you to get ahead of this so that life isn't just happening to you. And it sounds like it's been that way for a long time.
Are you doing this alone? Are you married?

Speaker 3 Single?

Speaker 2 No, I am divorced. I am doing this alone.
And

Speaker 3 how old is your dream?

Speaker 2 I'm 60.

Speaker 1 What does 65 Sharon want to be doing?

Speaker 2 Well, 65 Sharon wants to hopefully retire and build a long-arm quilting business.

Speaker 3 Oh, that's fun. Sounds awesome.

Speaker 1 So you want to plan to return?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I'm planning to retire and use the long-arm business to supplement my income because I know I won't have enough for a 1K retirement, yada, yada.

Speaker 1 So what are you making right now?

Speaker 2 About 65.

Speaker 3 Awesome.

Speaker 1 And what's your total debt other than your mortgage?

Speaker 3 The HELOC, the credit card, everything?

Speaker 2 Okay, well, my long arm machine, I still have 13 on it, and I have 13 on the HELOC,

Speaker 2 and 23 on the credit card.

Speaker 1 $2,300 on the credit card, $1,300 or $13,000?

Speaker 3 $1,300.

Speaker 1 On the first one. And what was that? Yes.

Speaker 2 The long arm machine.

Speaker 1 And what does that do? I'm not privy to this.

Speaker 3 Oh, and your quilting machine?

Speaker 2 So the long arm machine puts the pretty pattern on the quilt to sandwich it together.

Speaker 1 And it was you owe $13,000 on that machine?

Speaker 2 Roughly, yes.

Speaker 1 What are you making from this business right now?

Speaker 2 At the moment, nothing.

Speaker 2 Only because

Speaker 2 the timing on my machine isn't working correctly, so I can't quilt other people's quilts, and I don't want to ruin their quilts.

Speaker 3 Oh, boy.

Speaker 3 So you have a $13,000 depreciating asset in your paperweight. It doesn't work.

Speaker 2 Well, it works. I just need someone to pay somebody to come out and fix the timing on the machine.
Oh man.

Speaker 1 My honest thought is if you want to have this dream where you get to do this one day, you might have to sell this thing to get out of the debt.

Speaker 1 Because my guess is you don't have a ton of margin left over every month.

Speaker 1 Have you done a budget where you list out, here's all my expenses, here's what I'm taking home, here's what I have left to pay down the debts?

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 3 And how much I don't necessarily

Speaker 2 not much.

Speaker 1 And what's the payment on this machine?

Speaker 2 260.

Speaker 1 So you'd have an extra 260 to throw at the debt,

Speaker 1 at least.

Speaker 1 That'll help you get out of this credit card debt, which will free up another payment.

Speaker 1 Do you see how this debt snowball would work? If you pay off the smallest debt first, which would be the credit cards, you'd free up a credit card payment.

Speaker 1 And if you sold the machine, you'd free up another 260. Now we can use that to attack the HELOC and be out of this debt.

Speaker 1 My guess is making 65, getting on a real solid written budget, you could be out of this debt completely in under a year.

Speaker 1 So at 61, we're debt-free. By 62, we have a fully funded emergency fund.
And then we're maxing out all of the retirement accounts we can for a few years so that we can retire with dignity.

Speaker 3 Then we're buying a quilting machine with cash that's ours.

Speaker 1 And probably used off Facebook Marketplace from someone named Sharon who said, hey, I can't fix it. If you can fix it, good luck to you.
I'm selling it for five grand, and you'll get a deal on it.

Speaker 3 You'll buy the same exact machine back from your alter you at half the price.

Speaker 3 How does that sound?

Speaker 1 Not the question you called in for, but that's the answer I would give to my own sister or mom or friend.

Speaker 3 Yeah, you're talking to two guys who have moms in your age vicinity. And I can, both of us are getting nervous right now

Speaker 3 Thinking about our mom and your situation.

Speaker 1 Because I want my mom to retire with dignity.

Speaker 1 I don't want to see her struggling with bills as she enters retirement, wondering how she's going to make ends meet with no ability to work a full-time job. That scares me.

Speaker 3 And I also want to acknowledge how heartbreaking it is. This is not how you drew it up, how you thought things were going to be when you were 60, is it?

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 3 No.

Speaker 3 And so I think instead of having dreams that, you know, we're going to put on a credit card here or move some money around here or get a credit card and put on a HELOC here, I think there comes a moment when you sit down and acknowledge, I did not, this is not how I drew this up.

Speaker 3 I had a rider die and for whatever reason, my marriage fell apart. I don't know why I'm still here in Sacramento.
I want you to have those conversations and get with a friend and grieve it.

Speaker 3 And then be intentional. And the word I use here is not to mock anybody or point fingers, but it's, I have to choose reality.
Here's reality. I really want to do quilts.

Speaker 3 And right now I can't afford to do that because math.

Speaker 3 Okay. And I really want to be free when I'm 65.
And that means I'm going to have to work really hard at 61. I don't want to be.
You don't deserve to be.

Speaker 3 Mom should be having their feet up at 61 and playing with grandkids and rolling, like, you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 And unfortunately, that's just not your reality. So let's get there as quick as we can.

Speaker 3 And let's go do the next hard, hard, hard things for 61 and 62 so that 65, 75, 85-year-old you has a pretty sweet ride.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 1 You're going to have to reverse engineer this, Sharon. That's why I want you to envision that 65-year-old Sharon and then say, what must be true to get there?

Speaker 1 And that might mean selling this machine for now so that I can have it later with freedom instead of stress as I'm quilting. This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell and joined by Dr.
John Deloney.

Speaker 1 Hey, today's the last day of our extended Cyber Monday sale and that means it's the last day you can get prices as low as eight bucks on meaningful gifts for everyone on your list.

Speaker 1 We got best-selling hardcover books and assessments for just 12 bucks. Total money makeover, building a non-anxious life, they get clear career assessment and more.

Speaker 1 Plus, audiobooks are on sale for just $8.

Speaker 1 Baby Steps Millionaires, Paycheck to Purpose, On Your Past, Change Your Future, just $8 for the audiobook there.

Speaker 1 And for the first time ever, my book, Breaking Free from Broke, is on sale for just $12. That's incredible, and it's a great gift for young adults.

Speaker 1 I'm going to expose all the money myths and traps out there and show you a better path to build wealth in this crazy world we find ourselves in.

Speaker 1 So go to ramseysolutions.com/slash store to check out all of the Cyber Monday week deals. And if you're listening on YouTube or podcast, just click the link in the show notes or description.

Speaker 1 All right, let's go out to Caleb in Portland up next. What's going on, Caleb?

Speaker 1 You with us? Hello,

Speaker 2 yes.

Speaker 3 Sorry.

Speaker 2 My question was: I was wondering, I've got, here in about a year, I'm going to be coming into about $37,000 personal injury settlement.

Speaker 2 And I'm a new father, and I just kind of want to make sure that I set up my family

Speaker 2 and make sure that I just

Speaker 2 do the right things with it instead of looking back on it a year, five years, and being like, damn, I really wasted an opportunity. Or darn, sorry.
I apologize.

Speaker 1 That's wise. Are you okay now? How's your health?

Speaker 2 I'm all right. Just a little shaky.
I apologize.

Speaker 1 No, it's good. I'm just wondering, do you have ongoing health issues that you need to take care of? Do you need this money for anything related to the injury?

Speaker 2 No, sir. I'm debt-free.

Speaker 2 I'm not at all into your guys' baby steps. It's something I need to definitely look into.
I know my grandma is a big fan of your guys' show.

Speaker 1 Grandmas love us. What can we say?

Speaker 3 Yes, sir. So you're debt-free.

Speaker 1 So you kind of followed the plan already by accident.

Speaker 2 Yes, sir.

Speaker 1 You have no debt. Are you guys renting right now?

Speaker 2 Yes, sir.

Speaker 1 Okay. And do you have an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses?

Speaker 2 No, sir.

Speaker 1 Okay. Where are you at on savings?

Speaker 2 I don't have any savings.

Speaker 1 Well, congratulations. You will a year from now.
And

Speaker 1 here's my encouragement to you. Get an emergency fund before you ever get the settlement.
Because you said you're going to get it a year from now,

Speaker 2 roughly, it'll be February of 26.

Speaker 1 Okay, so even more, even longer than a year. So, you need an emergency fund now.
So, that would be your next goal: to add up what it takes to run your household for a month.

Speaker 1 Let's say it's $5,000 and you want a four-month emergency fund. That's $20,000.

Speaker 1 So, how much do you make as a household?

Speaker 2 I make

Speaker 2 roughly, I think, $40K a year. I honestly don't know.
I was trying to figure that out because they asked me. I answered $19

Speaker 2 an hour. So I'm not very...

Speaker 3 Okay, so you get paid hourly and you're working 40 hours a week?

Speaker 1 Yes, sir. And $19.
Yeah, that's about $40,000.

Speaker 1 Okay, so your next goal is to go, how much can we squeeze out of this budget aside from basic bills to get that emergency fund in place so that then we can begin investing?

Speaker 1 And once you get that settlement money, now it's, well, what can we do with this?

Speaker 1 Make maybe a start of a down payment to buy a house one day.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 1 Is that a goal for you guys?

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 this is something that happened when I was in middle school, and that was always my thought was to buy a house to not squander it.

Speaker 2 But I'm not the financial gurus. That's kind of why I called you guys.

Speaker 1 Well, you don't need to be a financial guru. You just got to stay out of debt, have money in the bank to cover emergencies, and then begin building for the future.

Speaker 1 And that would mean following the baby steps, you'd be investing 15% of your income into retirement accounts. You'd be putting money away for that down payment.

Speaker 1 And when the time is right, you can get that house. And you're 24.
There's no rush to do any of this, but I want to put you in a position so that you have options.

Speaker 2 Yes, sir.

Speaker 1 So I'm going to send you my book, Breaking Free from Broke. It's going to walk you through this whole process so that when you do get this money, you'll know what to do with it.

Speaker 1 Because I can tell you don't want to squander it. And as a new dad, I'm a new dad too.
It changes the way you look at things. You're not doing things for yourself anymore.

Speaker 1 If you look at our purchases on Amazon and Target, it's mostly for the baby now.

Speaker 1 And so I love that you're looking at this from a legacy perspective and not just a selfish 22-year-old knucklehead perspective.

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 that's been the last 24 years. Now I got the next set of years to not be selfish and take care of the kids.

Speaker 1 I love it. Hey, you're wiser than John and I were at your age.
I'll tell you that much, man.

Speaker 3 I didn't even know what day it was when I was 24, man. So good on you, brother.
It's awesome.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and I hope you heal up fully from that incident. So hang on, and we're going to have our friend Taylor send you that book, Breaking Free from Broke.
Kate's up next in Alberta, Canada.

Speaker 1 What's going on, Kate?

Speaker 2 Hi there. Hi, guys.
Thanks so much for taking my call. Sure.

Speaker 2 I love learning about how to best utilize our money and need your guys' help with something because I've been wrestling it around in my head with many different scenarios.

Speaker 2 So my husband and I want to build a modest lake home in our retirement, but I'm just cautious. I don't want to make a mistake or spend unwisely.
So just a bit of background.

Speaker 2 My husband and I have had a few hard goes in life, but now after putting our noses to the grindstone, all on our own, we've established financial security, we think.

Speaker 2 We've been in collaboration with our financial advisor.

Speaker 2 And so our financial picture looks like this. It's a little bit different in Canada.
We have RRSPs for retirement savings.

Speaker 2 And my husband has $750,000 in his.

Speaker 2 I have $150,000 in mine.

Speaker 2 We have combined $300,000 in our tax-free savings account.

Speaker 2 We have an extra $140,000 saved up in cash. Our primary house is worth $440,000, and that is paid off.

Speaker 2 We have an additional rental house that's worth about $400,000, but we have $150,000 worth of mortgage still on that.

Speaker 2 What I alluded to earlier, I know this was a poor decision, but we were doing the best we could without any parental guidance or help. We bought Universal Life, and so we have $650,000

Speaker 2 that will be a payout on our death.

Speaker 2 And so

Speaker 2 thoughts moving forward, I just recently retired. So as well as my $150 in

Speaker 2 my RSP, I have a defined pension benefit of $3,000 a month.

Speaker 2 My husband, I'm 54, and so I'm hoping, because I've gone through some tough health issues, that I could retire. And my husband is 56, and he's looking at maybe working for a couple more years.

Speaker 2 And so, our financial advisor really feels strongly that

Speaker 2 we are okay to be able to, you know, have some good deaccumulation strategies in retirement, and we should have kind of a nice little legacy at the end.

Speaker 1 So, what's the retirement home going to cost?

Speaker 2 About $400,000.

Speaker 1 And will you be paying cash for that?

Speaker 2 Well, see, that's the thing. We don't want to, I have to figure out all the nuances about RSPs and tax-free savings, but we don't really want to tap into that.

Speaker 2 So our thoughts are that if we kept both of our homes, like the one that we've paid off our primary home, and we can use the rental or the rental income to help boost our income in retirement, we could remortgage our rental property.

Speaker 2 So that money

Speaker 1 I don't like the idea of remortgaging anything as you head into retirement. That's adding risk and stress into your life.
So here's what I would do because we're short on time.

Speaker 1 I would pay off the rental. And if you have the money and it's not going to decimate your nest egg, you can build that retirement home one day.

Speaker 1 Right now, it looks like you guys are going to rent a wonderful home for a few weeks as a vacation home. But I would not sink 400 grand of your nest egg.

Speaker 1 That's a third to half of what you guys have right now. And I'm not super confident in this plan.

Speaker 3 I want you to solve for peace. You have 5,000 moving puzzle pieces, and it's exhausting just listening to you trying to balance this and move this over here and try this thing.

Speaker 3 Try solving for peace. How simple can we make this?

Speaker 3 How simple can we have the life that we want to live? Seek that option.

Speaker 1 This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr.
John Deloney. The number to call is 888-825-5225.

Speaker 1 The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to to you by YReFi.

Speaker 1 We trust YReFi because they help people who have defaulted private student loans to refinance with a low fixed interest rate they couldn't get anywhere else.

Speaker 1 Chris had a student loan and he cut his payment by over 40% with YReFi. So go to yrefi.com today slash Ramsey.
That's the letter YREFY.com slash Ramsey. May not be available in all states.

Speaker 3 Today's question comes from Jenna in Minnesota. Jenna writes, a few years ago, my husband loaned some money to a friend and also let the friend use his credit card.

Speaker 3 He thought the person was trustworthy, but by the time we realized what this guy had spent, he owed us about $15,000.

Speaker 3 He pays us back here and there, but it's only a couple hundred bucks every few months.

Speaker 3 At this rate, I'm worried this guy doesn't actually intend to pay us back the full amount and is only paying us occasionally to keep us happy.

Speaker 3 We recently found out he had taken advantage of at least two other people as well and still owes them also. Are there any legal measures we can take that won't cost us more than it's worth?

Speaker 3 Walk away, Jenna.

Speaker 1 This is what we call a stupid tax.

Speaker 3 It's a $15,000 stupid tax. It's a heartbreaking tax.
It's a, I thought you were a better friend tax, but walk away.

Speaker 3 You are expending way more emotional and relational and psychological energy over this than he is.

Speaker 3 And so it's like that old AA adage, you're drinking poison every morning, hoping that he gets sick and dies. It's not how it works.
You're the one getting sick.

Speaker 3 You and your husband, wash your hands of this thing, block this guy on social media and go about your life. And just know, we're never going to loan friends money again.

Speaker 3 We will give our friends money. We'll give it to them all the time, generously and recklessly, but I'm not going to loan any money because

Speaker 3 it just puts a huge wedge between us and our relationship.

Speaker 1 That's it. So I don't think this is worth going to Judge Judy over, to some civil court to try to get the money back, because my guess is he doesn't have it.

Speaker 1 He's not secretly hoarding hundreds of thousands of dollars. And, you know, you learn the lesson here is you lost a friend over this, and it wasn't worth it.
And he did this to other people.

Speaker 1 And the fact that he couldn't use his own credit card because he was doing that bad financially that you lent him your credit card, that's asking for fraud.

Speaker 1 And the problem is it's not fraud because you willingly gave this guy this money and loaned it to him.

Speaker 3 So he just said, think about this in court. The judge is going to say,

Speaker 3 let me see the contract. And you're going to say, well, we don't have one.
See, what are the terms y'all agreed on for when he'd pay it back?

Speaker 1 We don't have one.

Speaker 3 He just said when he could. And did you?

Speaker 1 Did he steal your credit card? No, I I gave him.

Speaker 3 No, I handed it to him. I didn't think he was going to spend $15,000.
Did you tell him don't spend $15,000? No. So it's one of those things that

Speaker 3 it defies

Speaker 3 the implied social contract we all have with each other, which is to treat each other with dignity and respect. You guys got spit in the face, and I hate this for you.

Speaker 3 So you can just sit there with spit on your face, getting mad at him and mad at him, or you can clean up. and go on about your life and just know like the Delonies,

Speaker 3 we don't loan money to friends. I'll give money all day long.
I'm not going to loan money because it creates

Speaker 3 a wedge in our relationship. My friendships are too valuable to me.

Speaker 1 100%.

Speaker 3 That's the question. If somebody comes and says, hey, can I borrow some money? And you say, hey, we don't loan money to friends.
Tell me what's going on. And they launch into, well, screw you.

Speaker 3 Or who do you think you are? They aren't your friend. They are not your friend.
They want to use you as a bank. You were to sapon in their scheme.
Yes, you are a means to an end.

Speaker 3 And it's a good litmus test of your relationship if your friends piss and moan about your boundaries. So sorry, Jenna, but I would, you and your husband would,

Speaker 3 as the great Jay-Z says, brush your shoulders off and move on.

Speaker 1 I thought you were going to go Elsa. Let it go.
Total frozen. All right.
Fine.

Speaker 3 It's fine. You can tell my kids are older than yours.

Speaker 1 All right. Justin is up next in Oklahoma City.
What is going on, Justin?

Speaker 2 Hello.

Speaker 2 Yes, I'm Justin. I'm currently 18 and I'm attending college for a cybersecurity degree with a full ride.

Speaker 3 Cool.

Speaker 2 So I got a job offer for

Speaker 2 between $14,000 and $20 an hour back in my hometown for full time. So at the higher end, that's about $52,000 a year

Speaker 2 with overtime included because it's a 50-hour work week. So it's at a it would be a operation technician for a bitcoin mining company.

Speaker 2 And while that can seem sketchy, they contacted me through my trade school and they have a good history with my trade school.

Speaker 2 So I'm just wondering how much of a salary would it make it worth it for me to drop out of college.

Speaker 3 How far along are you in your program?

Speaker 2 So I attended a concurrent degree whenever I was in high school. So frankly, I'm three semesters into my program out of eight.

Speaker 3 Out of eight?

Speaker 3 Man, I might be on an island here, but

Speaker 3 if you were my son, I would tell you you have a Willy Wonka ticket, which is a free ride to a college education. I would take that ticket.

Speaker 1 For a great degree.

Speaker 3 For a great degree.

Speaker 1 And the money you'll be making in cybersecurity, you're going to be like, why did I leave all this for a $14 an hour job for a Bitcoin company, which

Speaker 1 regardless of my thoughts on Bitcoin, is very volatile. And so this company could go under and they could say, hey, man, we shut down operations yesterday.
You don't have a job anymore.

Speaker 1 And so I would continue down this path. If Bitcoin really is what everyone says it is, it's going to be around a long time.
And if you were qualified at 18, you're going to be very qualified by 22.

Speaker 1 So I would keep pursuing this path of cybersecurity, knowing that you're going to make six figures upon graduation working for a reputable company with great benefits.

Speaker 1 And I would pass on this job right now.

Speaker 3 Yeah. And you're going to have a certificate.
You're going to have a credential that no one can ever take from you. The credential plus the training.
And I think that's invaluable.

Speaker 3 And let me tell you this. Can I just, can I applaud you? 18 years old and someone's coming out of the gate offering you 40 grand just to walk away from everything.
You know what that tells me?

Speaker 3 You're in rare air, my brother.

Speaker 3 That means you work hard. That means you're very smart.
That means you get your stuff turned in on time. Your grades are good.
That means

Speaker 3 they're already identifying you. And what's hard when you're 18 is when somebody sees you

Speaker 3 and you feel seen and you feel known, it feels so good.

Speaker 3 That it's easy to get derailed.

Speaker 3 And it's the 18-year-olds with wisdom that say, okay, if i got this at 18 just imagine how many people are going to be knocking on my door when i'm 20 and i'm fully credentialed and you're going to have zero none no student debt because the school is paying for it man full ride it's a willy wonka ticket brother you won so like i i could tell you i've worked with college students my whole life but more than that i'm just telling you what i would tell my son which is ride this out get the education, get their credential.

Speaker 3 This is a valuable degree and will only get more valuable over time. And these jobs at Bitcoin, I mean, dude, you're going to have jobs lined up for you.
So that's my recommendation.

Speaker 2 All right.

Speaker 3 Thanks for your time. Hey, congratulations, man.

Speaker 3 It does my heart good to know.

Speaker 3 You're building the infrastructure that my kids are going to grow up in, man.

Speaker 3 And I'm glad to know there's young people out there like you out there busting it, working hard and making their grades, dude. That's awesome.

Speaker 1 That's huge. And John, there's a lot of

Speaker 1 students out there, 17, 18 years old, and they're going, what the heck am I supposed to do with my life?

Speaker 1 I'm getting this degree because I was told it was the next right step I take out of high school.

Speaker 1 And so you've got to also weigh your options here and go, if, if Justin was getting a useless degree that he wasn't excited about and his parents just said, you have to go to college, do something, and he was just aiming at nothing and spending 50 grand a year in debt to do it,

Speaker 1 we'd probably say, hey, dude, pause, go work, go do the job, making 40 grand a year, cash flow college later when you know what you want to do.

Speaker 1 This was different where he's going, he's in a great field, sounds like he knows what he's doing, is excited about cybersecurity. Stay down the path and don't get distracted.

Speaker 3 Yes. And

Speaker 3 it's just that understanding that the jobs will come, the jobs will come, the jobs will come.

Speaker 3 Yes, if you find yourself, your parents are saying, you're going to be a doctor, and you just finished your first semester in college and you hate it, you hate, you hate, you know, OCM and you hate biology, and somebody comes along and says, I'll pay you 40 grand to come home, take that job, right?

Speaker 3 And that's a great situation to figure out what's next for you. But if you're on the path and someone tries to, in that same field, field, get you off the path early,

Speaker 3 the disciplined thing is to stay on the path.

Speaker 1 And it checked a lot of boxes for me. It was a full ride with a great degree on the other side.

Speaker 1 And he's already three semesters in, young guy, already has, you know, collapsed some credits here and there. So I feel like, let's ride this out and see where it goes.

Speaker 1 My guess is four years from now, he's not looking back with regret that he didn't take the $15 an hour job. He's going, oh my goodness, I'm doing what I love to do.

Speaker 3 I'm on $120 an hour job.

Speaker 1 Yes, exactly. I would aim your sights higher when you're as smart as Justin is.
yeah so thanks for the call this is the ramsey show

Speaker 1 welcome back to the ramsey show i'm george campbell joined by dr john deloney open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five well it's that time of year in a few weeks we're going to be doing a special giving edition of the ramsey show dave ramsey and i will be hosting that one and we want to hear stories from you about how you have given generously this season maybe you tipped a waitress a hundred bucks you bought Thanksgiving dinner for a family who couldn't afford one.

Speaker 1 Maybe you blessed someone in need by giving them a car. Or maybe you've been on the receiving end and had your life changed by someone who has given generously to you.

Speaker 1 Well, you want to hear that story. Go to ramseysolutions.com slash ask, A-S-K, and put giving in the subject line.
Ramseysolutions.com slash ask. Put giving in the subject line.

Speaker 1 It's one of our favorite shows. It's coming up on December 18th.
Start sending in your story so we can celebrate living like no one else, so that you can give like no one else.

Speaker 1 And if you didn't know, this hour of the show, when it ends, you're going to miss out if you're not over on the Ramsey Network app where we're doing a whole nother hour.

Speaker 1 The Ramsey Network app is the only place to get full episodes of the Ramsey show. You can download it for free using the link in the show notes or by searching Ramsey Network in your app store.

Speaker 1 And if you're on radio, stay tuned. The show will continue.
But if you're on YouTube or podcasts, anyone else, don't miss what's next. Finish the show in the Ramsey Network app.

Speaker 3 They also just rolled over my show, the Dr. John DeLune show with video on the network app.
So now it's the place to be. It's where the party's at.

Speaker 1 You can give us your favorite show.

Speaker 3 Give my show a week in advance before it launches out in the real world. Nice.

Speaker 1 Now you can tell all your friends, like, wait, what?

Speaker 3 Yeah, dude, I get it early in the app.

Speaker 1 Where you been?

Speaker 3 Yeah, it's kind of the cool flex is to be on the app.

Speaker 1 Don't be late to the party. I don't even get invited to the party, let alone late.

Speaker 3 You'll get there one day. All right.

Speaker 1 Steve's in San Antonio up next. What's going on, Steve?

Speaker 2 Yes, thanks for taking my call. I'm talking about the identity test.

Speaker 3 Let's talk about it.

Speaker 2 I'm being bombarded with data breach letters and and it's all from either the hospital or their vendors or

Speaker 2 ambulance service and

Speaker 2 it's really and for somebody like myself who doesn't really know that much about about the high-tech world it's it's bothering me it's messing with my head yeah and I just want to know if there's an easy way to get to

Speaker 2 you know, take yourself out of the system some kind of way.

Speaker 3 When you say bombarded, sometimes when I get nervous or frustrated frustrated or I'm in a world I don't understand,

Speaker 3 I'll say bombarded or I'm getting blown up, but actually it's like two or three. So how many letters, I mean,

Speaker 3 how many times have you been the victim of a data breach?

Speaker 2 Five times, five times since 2017.

Speaker 3 Five times, okay. And it's like a hospital or an ER or something like that?

Speaker 2 Yes, it's hospital, the vendors, Far the Hospital, you know, and more than one hospital. And then

Speaker 2 this

Speaker 2 evidence service, that's the latest. And the only reason they took me on in 2017, that's a long time ago.
I thought, you know, and then

Speaker 1 so are these emails, texts, phone calls, how are they contacting you?

Speaker 2 On letters.

Speaker 1 Letters. Letters in the mail.

Speaker 3 All right. Yeah, and sometimes those letters just say, hey, a big block of things got exposed.
It doesn't even mean anybody took anything.

Speaker 3 It means somebody hacked into a thing and they may have gotten 10 names, but there was 10 million names in there and yours was one of the 10 million. So it can be pretty confusing.

Speaker 3 I've got a couple of routes for you. Here's the thing.

Speaker 3 Getting quote unquote out of the system at this point, and you're talking to a guy that spent my whole life trying to avoid being on the internet.

Speaker 1 John is a privacy nerd.

Speaker 3 I am,

Speaker 3 it's a game for me.

Speaker 1 I don't even know that his real name is John, to be honest.

Speaker 3 It's for sure not. It's Daryl, right?

Speaker 3 But so I don't, I have tried to opt out. I have, I've recently relented.
There's not a way out

Speaker 3 and so I think the things to do is to protect yourself

Speaker 2 less vulnerable.

Speaker 3 There you go. So two things that I do and that and George does too

Speaker 3 is one, I work with a company called Delete Me

Speaker 3 and you can go to delete me or join delete me.com j-o-i-n delete me.com slash Ramsey. We'll take you right there.
Yeah, or slash Deloney because then I get credit for it. But slash Ramsey.
Wow.

Speaker 3 But here's the deal. They go through and pull all of your

Speaker 3 anything on the dark web where they're selling your like spammers and scammers and people trying to steal your data. They pull it all off the internet and they send you a report every month.

Speaker 3 It's pretty amazing what they do. The second thing is to get identity theft protection from our friends at Xander.
I've got it. George has it.
And it's really inexpensive.

Speaker 3 In the rare case that you get your identity stolen.

Speaker 1 And even money stolen.

Speaker 3 Money's taken out of your account. It's very rare if it happens.
It happened to George once. Never happened to me.
If it does happen,

Speaker 1 they they've stolen funds recovered.

Speaker 3 They go chase it down for you. So in a world like, I'm like you, man, I don't know how any of this stuff works.
I don't get it. If you told me to log into the dark web, I don't even know what that is.

Speaker 3 I don't even know what that is. I don't even know how Twitter works, right?

Speaker 3 But I trust these folks that if something does happen, they're going to chase it down and help me out. So those are the two ways I protect me and my family right now.

Speaker 2 And what's the story? What's the name of that place again?

Speaker 1 We'll make sure to get you the links. Hang on the line.
But if you go to joindeleatme.com slash Ramsey, you'll get 20% off their plans, and they're real affordable.

Speaker 1 We're talking like nine bucks a month, Steve. And then, same with Xander ID Theft, very affordable, about the same price.

Speaker 1 And they do two different things, but they're both wise to have, and it'll give you peace of mind. For that 20 bucks a month you're spending for all this, you're going to sleep better at night.

Speaker 1 And I'll tell you anecdotally, Steve, I've got a lot, I've much fewer text messages and phone calls and spam since signing up for this.

Speaker 2 All right. Well, I was thinking about getting

Speaker 2 turning my money into gold and burying it.

Speaker 3 No, no, don't do that.

Speaker 1 The banks are not the issue, Steve. So keep your money in a bank.
It's much safer there if it's FDIC insured, which most banks that you're using are going to be. Same with your savings accounts.

Speaker 1 I would not put this money under a mattress.

Speaker 3 Or in gold. Don't bury it in the yard.

Speaker 3 Although.

Speaker 2 Up to $250,000, it's safe.

Speaker 3 Well,

Speaker 1 that's one account.

Speaker 3 Yes, you can also get some of these high-yield savings accounts that have rollover protection that they move your money around to multiple banks, and it can be millions and millions.

Speaker 3 My high-yield savings account has millions of dollars in FDSC protection on it.

Speaker 2 So, okay, so I guess, but if I let's just assume that I had some gold buried up here and

Speaker 2 I took a one-ounce deal out and one ounce of gold and took it and got turning into money. How does the tax man get his cut?

Speaker 1 When you buy gold

Speaker 3 or when you convert it to money?

Speaker 2 When I'm turning gold back into currency,

Speaker 2 at what point in that transaction there, when do I did I get it initially or what?

Speaker 1 I don't know the tax ramifications of selling gold and turning it into dollars.

Speaker 3 Yeah, from your yard. I don't know, man.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 My guess would be at some point you'll have to report a commodity sale as income.

Speaker 3 You're just

Speaker 1 it's like me going to London and getting some pounds out of my dollars.

Speaker 1 You're just converting it. So I don't know.
That's one to Google, Steve, if you can do that. But as far as your safety goes, gold is not going to keep you any safer than having your money in the bank.

Speaker 3 Yeah, my guess is on money, if you got money and then you bought gold with it and buried it in your yard, and then you took that gold out and converted it to cash, you would have probably already been taxed on that money when you got it the first time.

Speaker 2 Well, I tell you what,

Speaker 2 I think Germany, before World War II, when they

Speaker 2 they hit printing presses, they were printing money all over the place.

Speaker 2 Just because

Speaker 2 they guaranteed so much of it doesn't mean it's worth anything.

Speaker 3 That's right. That's right.
But I'll tell you this.

Speaker 3 A great friend of mine who

Speaker 3 is a

Speaker 3 bank executive said

Speaker 3 the best we can do is the next right thing, and we can plan.

Speaker 3 But if we spend our time trying to avoid meteorites, like I don't have a meteorite plan,

Speaker 3 if suddenly the United States is not able to insure its federal deposits and the banking system collapses, the gold that I've buried in my backyard will be worthless because my neighbor is going to come over and try to fight me for my water.

Speaker 3 And so what happens a lot is these, these, these stupid commercials come on these news channels trying to sell you end-of-time hedges.

Speaker 3 And end-of-time hedges don't work. The greatest hedge you have against an end-of-time apocalypse is to be really closely connected to your friends and neighbors so that everybody can work together.

Speaker 3 Not to have.

Speaker 2 I really wish that

Speaker 2 the government was more responsible and

Speaker 2 they didn't

Speaker 2 put us in this situation where we have to be so concerned about it.

Speaker 3 I know. But the next best thing is we're responsible.
Yes. If they can't pet.

Speaker 3 And it just isn't the case. They spend money like it's going out of style.

Speaker 1 And Steve, I Googled it. Check this out.
There are reporting requirements for gold sales and you will likely have capital gains tax if you made money off of it. You want to get real nerdy?

Speaker 1 Form 8949 and Schedule D.

Speaker 3 There you go.

Speaker 1 There's your nerdery for the day. If you're looking to sell some gold, well, not how I expected to end this hour, John, but we did it.

Speaker 3 This is love my job.

Speaker 1 The Ramsey Show.