Don’t Overcomplicate Building Wealth, Keep It Simple

Live from the Ramsey Network, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm Ramsey Personality George Camilla, joined by my good friend, Dr.
John Deloney. We're taking your calls at 888-825-5225.
You call us, we'll try to help you take the right next step for your life, your relationships, and your money. Lucas is going to kick us off in Grand Junction, Colorado.
What's going on, Lucas? Hey, how are you guys? Doing well, how are you? How can we help? Good. I'm trying to sit down and go through a budget and start making a monthly plan.
My wife and I have both gone through Financial Peace University together. My income has changed since we've done that.
I get paid basically daily. So how do I kind of set up my monthly budget for something like that? Because my budget or my income is very,

it fluctuates a lot from summertime to wintertime.

So how do I set up a budget for something like that?

What do you do that you get paid daily?

Are you slinging rocks?

I'm a farrier.

I trim and shoot horses.

Oh, dude.

Okay.

I get paid.

That's amazing.

Yeah, that's way better than selling drugs.

I love that.

Okay, good. So do people call you out to their farms and you go out there and take care of them? Or their horse ranches? Yeah.
Dude, good on you, man. Awesome.
So I love that you're still doing a budget because a lot of people think, well, budgets are for people with consistent incomes. And you definitely need a budget if you have a regular income.
And so here's how I would set it up. You need to make a prioritized spending plan.
So you know, it's not going to be a $0 month. So what's been your worst month in the last six months? My worst month, probably 5,000 gross.
Okay. And what's been your best month? 16,000.
Amazing. And what are your monthly expenses?

What do you need to just cover all of your basic bills?

Food, utilities, housing, transportation, insurance?

About $6,500.

Okay. So you can do what I call a peaks and valleys fund.

So if you have a great month, like $16,000, well, you don't need it all.

So we can park that in a separate savings account to cover the leaner $5,000 a month where we're $1,500 short. Make sense? Okay.
And as you go out, you know, go throughout the month tracking your transactions, you're going to prioritize what you need to cover. So first up, food, utilities, housing, transportation.
If we have all of those covered and we still have money left over, we go to the next priority, in the next priority. And at the very bottom will be the, you know, life's little luxuries, your subscriptions or whatever the fun things are, your hobbies.
Okay. And that way, you know, you're going to cover all the major bills.
And if you're able to cover more and put extra in savings and hit your other goals, that's great. But that'll allow you to make sure that you don't have a month where you're behind and then need to go into debt to do it.
Hey, Lucas, hang on the line here because I want to ask George a question on your behalf. So George, so you have a Pekin Valley fund and let's say it feels like in my head, it would be smart to have a line that when you cross that line, there's a chunk of money that you decided what to do with.
So let's say his lowest month he had last year was five, his highest was 16, but he averages 12, right? And so he's going to continue to move this money over there money over there does it make sense to say okay when we get 25 000 or 10 000 we're going to stop and either move that to x or move that to y like you see what i'm saying well this largely depends on where you're at in the baby steps lucas so are you debt free with a fully funded emergency fund or are you working to pay off debt we're working off some debt. We don't have a bunch.
The only thing that left is like two small personal loans and a vehicle loan in the house. Okay.
And what do you have in savings right now? For your emergency fund? We just got through a remodel, so we're less than a thousand in savings right now. Okay.
So your A1 goal with any extra money beyond basic bills is to fill up that $1,000 starter emergency fund. Beyond that, any extra money beyond your basic bills goes toward debt payoff.
Then once you have the debt paid off, it goes toward the emergency fund. Then when you're in baby step four through seven, you have more margin.
And so like John said, this is where you can decide, hey, our next goal is going to be paying off the house early, or we're going to just stash money away to where maybe you have an extra three months of expenses to cover you for those leaner months okay okay the way to go you're crushing it man five to 16 grand is quite the uh spread there yeah dude i follow an instagram account and all all that guy does on this instagram account is takes horses hooves that are like infected or messed up and he cleans them all up

and makes them amazing and i'm just mesmerized by it so cool dude how long have you been doing that it's a fun job uh about 10 years how many times have you been kicked a lot a lot not by your not by your wife but by your by these horses yeah exactly yeah exactly you ever encounter people Lucas who maybe should sell the horse?

Just curious.

All the time. thank you for that that's all we needed no further questions your honor yes there's people who have horses who don't don't deserve horses and don't need them and yeah wow all right so i got you a more equine question it's an equine theme hour here yeah on the rimsey show listen lucas we got you we helped you out so you have to help us out um there's a mystique around horses is it real are they like a magic animal in some sense you know the way they are there's a connection that you get between a person and a horse that actually does have that connection they're they they're a personal animal they're kind of like a you know in a way kind of like a dog they get to get to know their person and you have a connection with that horse and there's a lot to them but yeah they they're a very sensitive animal they can feel every emotion that you're feeling and it adds to so somebody experience around them if somebody had a deep personal connection with a horse and they were struggling financially and somebody just popped in their ear and was like you should sell that horse horse right away.
That'd be kind of cruel, right? Yeah, it's hard to do. I mean, I've had some pretty lean financial years and it's hard to think about getting rid of the horses.
There you go. Just wanted to make sure.
I have a friend named Korge Jamel and he did that one time and it was pretty tough. It wasn't in front of millions though.
Yeah, it was in front of a whole bunch of people. Yeah.
But hey, Lucas, that's, I appreciate the work that you're doing, brother. That's awesome.
Thanks, man. Thanks for the call.
It's a great question, John. A lot of people, when they look at budgeting, they opt out because they go, well, that's for a certain type of person.
It's for broke people. It's for people who have a lot of money.
It's for people who have consistent income. And what I found over time is it's for people who want to know where their money's going and want more of it.
Yeah, and I don't... You can tell me if I'm wrong here, but it feels like, especially as the world has moved almost overnight to this gig economy where everybody's got a job and then a side hustle and then another side hustle.
If you're making $250,000 and you're gonna fudge here and around the edges okay if the 14 you just earned that hour is going to a bill you have extra you better be paying attention to every dollar right like like watching every penny yeah and so it matters more when you're that tight yes and so if you're getting paid every day like is, if you are working these gig jobs where you're measuring mileage and you're, it's onto you to pay extra special attention to every penny, every dollar, wherever you happen to be. And that's how you're going to get ahead, especially on this day to day by day by day by day basis.
Absolutely. And I see Lucas is still on the line.
So I'm going to gift him one year of every dollar premium. And I hope that helps him with this, you know, inconsistent budgeting.
We have a paycheck planning tool as part of the premium version, John, where you can lay out all your bills. It'll show you when your money's going to run out based on when all your bills hit.
So it's a super helpful tool to visualize. Then you can start moving your bills around and figure out, okay, I need more money after the bills and before it.
So I don't run out. So there's a lot of cool features there.
Go check out EveryDollar. You can download it for free in the App Store or Google Play, or just click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast.
And whether you are broke, you consider yourself wealthy, you have regular, consistent income, irregular income from commission jobs, you need a budget. If you are a human being who has bills to pay, you need a budget yesterday.
So go download Every Dollar. It will solve that problem.
And then your job is to stick to it, to track those transactions, and to take control of your money instead of it controlling you. This is The Ramsey Show.
All right, Dave, you have some strong opinions. Possibly, yeah.
I think so. Because you really prefer credit unions over big banks.
So why is that? Well, credit unions, for one thing, are non-profit, which means that the members, the customers, own the credit union. So any profits that the credit union makes goes back into customer pricing.
So you get better interest rate on savings, cheaper checking, and so on, that kind of thing. But what's more important than that, though, is the fact that the customer is the owner changes the spirit on the credit union.
So I find very few credit unions that aren't very customer-centric. Yes.
Well, and I think we have found one that is incredible, and that's Fairwinds. They are an incredible credit union that is really out with the heart to help the customer.
You know, that's why we're partnering with them, because they've got a scope to be able to handle the Ramsey audience, and they're the right kind of people with the right kind of values. And they've done a really, really good job with customer service, and the deals that they're offering, the Ramsey tribe is incredible.
Yeah, absolutely. And you're right.
Their customer service is unbelievable. Winston and I just signed up and we got an account.
And I'm not kidding. It took less than five minutes.
It was so user-friendly. The step-by-step approach was unbelievable.
And then the next day my phone rings and it says fair wins on phone. So I answered it and talked to someone there and they said, yeah, they give calls to every new customer.
And so again, they just really care about your experience. And I so, so appreciate that.
So again, you guys, I know it can be a pain to switch banks or to open up new accounts, but Fairwinds, again, they make it so easy. Plus anything that you can do at a traditional branch, you can do with them at fairwinds.org or on their app.
And you'll have free access to over 33,000 ATMs. Hey, you guys know how much I hate banks in general.
And so for me to do this is a big deal. Talk to our friends at Fairwinds and check out the combined checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsey tribe.
You guys, it's incredible. Yeah, you guys, it's so easy to

join Fairwinds no matter where you live. So go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey to learn more.

That's F-A-I-R-W-I-N-D-S dot org slash Ramsey.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Kamlin, joined by Dr.
John Maloney. Open phones at 888-825-5225.
Christina joins us next in Florence, South Carolina. Christina, welcome to The Ramsey Show.
Hey, thank you guys so much. I appreciate your time.
What's going on? So in 2018 I was diagnosed with breast cancer

and Thank you guys so much. I appreciate your time.
What's going on? So in 2018, I was diagnosed with breast cancer and was out of work. And unfortunately, over the time period that the company I work for allowed.
So after 20 years of service, they called and told me they no longer needed me. So I have 401k with that company.

I know I should have done something with it and I did not. So it is sitting in an account and I was just diagnosed in the past year with stage four cancer.
So now instead of preparing for my retirement, I am looking to see the best way possible to leave this money for my family i want to make sure that tax-wise or whatever penalty that's going to be made um it gets the less hit i would like them to have the most of it so how i else are you going to review about your new contracted timeline for just being around? I would say I've only been given that by one doctor, and I would say we're looking at within a year. Wow.
Do you feel pretty confident about that? I believe in a big God, and I know that he can do big miracles. So, no, I don't believe that.
However, I am doing everything possible to make sure, if anything does happen, that I leave my, having the most that they can.

Yeah.

You're a pretty amazing woman, Christina.

Yeah.

To be thinking about your 401k beneficiaries when you're going through something like this speaks volumes to the kind of person you are.

I want you to, I'm going to assume you've got longer than a year,

but I'm going to pretend like you are that we're going to go ahead and do

those things just in case.

Okay. Okay.
Thank you. I want you to never say the words I should have again.
Okay. Literally life is too short.
Okay. You're right.
We're not going to say I should have, I needed to. We're just going to do the next right thing.
Okay. Okay.
So we're going to let old Christina who is trying to survive getting hit in the mouth with a cancer diagnosis the first round we're gonna let her off though she's tired okay is that cool thank you that's cool so no more shoulds it's just gonna be the next right thing um i'm assuming you're a list maker have you made a list of all the things you need to go do um i have yeah okay i want you to put at the top of that list things that bring me joy and laughter. Okay.
And I don't know what that means for you. For me, it would probably just be Will Ferrell shows and playing with babies and hanging out with my kids and my wife.
I don't, and puppies, everybody's different. Okay.
George would just be smashing Android phones. That would bring him the most joy he could possibly have.
Not a bad idea. Right.
But I want you to put that at the top. Okay.
The greatest gift you can give to your loved ones in this season is to find joy where you can. Okay.
And then we'll do these tasks as they pop up. And this is one of those tasks.
Okay. I'd recommend you get a SmartVestor Pro if you haven't already, and just consolidate this stuff as quickly as you can

into a single account. And if you've got multiple, like when I moved to Ramsey, I had left

three or four other jobs. I had 401s everywhere.
So I called my SmartVestorPro, and we gathered

them all up into one central place. And it took like, I mean, he did it in no time.

And that's a direct rollover. So you're not actually withdrawing the money.
You're just

directly rolling it over to an IRA from that 401k. So there won't be any penalties or taxes there.
Do you know if the 401k was traditional or Roth? I don't. Okay.
There might be a little bit of homework just to figure out, you know, if it's traditional 401k, that means you haven't paid taxes on the money yet. And so you're, you know, whoever inherits it will have to pay income taxes on it.
That's fine. Someone was going to have to do it at some point.
If it's Roth, it means you already paid taxes on it, and therefore when they inherit it, it'll be tax-free. But there's not going to be penalties or anything like that with an inherited retirement account.
Now, who would be the beneficiary on this account? Who would be getting this money if you passed?

It would be my husband and my daughter.

Okay.

So if it's your husband, there's different rules.

He will likely be able to roll that money into his own account,

and there won't be the 10-year withdrawal period. If it goes to a non-spouse, they'll have 10 years to withdraw the funds

based on the SECURE 2.0 Act.

And again, a SmartVestor Pro can walk you through all the nerdy ins and outs of this. The key is just to check who is the beneficiary of this account.
Is it the person I want? Okay. So I should probably my husband, if I want him to have access to the money within 10 years.
Yes. If it was me, I would, unless you have reason not to give this money to your husband, that would be the next in line I would be passing this money to.
Yes, and by splitting it, you're going to make things way more complicated for him when you pass away. Do you have a will in place? I'm working on it.
Okay. Hold on now.
Before the weekend is over, at least go to Mama Bear Will and get a will, okay? Okay. Yeah, and we'll hang on the line.
We're going to help you out. Kelly's going to hang on the line

and we're going to gift you as much as we can to help

you with this process. But Mama Bear Legal Forms,

they're the folks that John and I have our

wills through. It's online.

It's all ironclad. It's legit.

And so, let me say, that's who I

got it when I moved from Texas to Tennessee.

And I went and got a Mama Bear

will because I've moved states.

And then I recently have sat down with an estate planning attorney,

my wife and I did, and we went through the whole rigmarole.

And he was awesome.

He's awesome.

He's here in Nashville.

But getting a thing right now just in case,

and then sit down with an estate planning attorney with you and your husband.

Okay.

And earlier, I want to reiterate,

George asked you, is this in a Roth or or is it traditional 401 and your response was this i don't know you're not failing anything it's not a pop quiz okay 99 of america doesn't know the answer to these questions that's why this show exists okay okay the least amount of beating yourself up you can do over the next year the the better. Okay.
And the least amount of brain calories you can spend on stupid stuff like this, the better. And that's why it's wise to reach out to a smart bester pro who goes, hey, don't worry about it.
Let me explain it to you in a way I can teach you. You can understand it, but you don't have to worry about it yourself.
Okay. All right.
Is that cool? What else we got? What else we help you? Do you have any term life insurance in place? Through my husband's job, I do. Okay.
And you probably wouldn't qualify for any others at this point? Yeah. Yeah, the big question is, is my family going to be okay if something were to happen to me? And it sounds like the answer is yes, they're going to be okay.
Okay. One more question is, is there a penalty? Someone told me that there's a law that passed that if something like this happens to you, that you can withdraw your money early with no penalty.
It would probably constitute as a kind of a hardship withdrawal. I still wouldn't do it.
Okay. Even if you're able to.
Are there pressing financial things that you guys are trying to pay off, debts, things like that? No, no. Okay.
No, there's not. I would leave it sitting there because it's going to grow and continue to grow with compound growth.
I don't want you to unplug that regardless of what the penalties are. You've worked really hard to establish this level of wealth for your family and there's no need to withdraw it early.
Okay. Okay.
All right. Can I give you one piece of magic advice? Yes.
I don't think it's going to be, but you get a rare gift that most of us just blow by. You get a rare gift to at least consider this might be the last Christmas.
You sit around the tree. Soak up every minute of it.
Yes. Every minute.
Yes. Go on the vacation.
Go do the silly things. Yep.
Throw water balloons at your daughter when she gets home from school. Do all the stuff.
We're headed to New York in a week. Fine.
Never done that before. That's amazing.
Write write the letter make sure she's got

something to read

forever and ever and ever

okay

you're a brave

brave brave woman

thank you for sharing

your bravery with us

thank you Christina

we're pulling for you

and we hope there's only

good news in the future

call us back

if we can help

in any other way

and hang on the line

Kelly's gonna pick up

and make sure that you have

what you need

with all the links

and goodies

to take the next steps

for all the men and women

listening out here

we all have our last day Thank you. Make sure that you have what you need with all the links and goodies to take the next steps.

For all the men and women listening out here, we all have our last day.

And you just heard what bravery looks like.

Someone who says, okay, it's coming.

I want to make sure whether I know what day it is or it might be 50 years in the future,

I'm going to do the best I can to make sure those that I love who are left when I'm gone are taken care of.

That's what that sounds like right there. Making a list and-ed.
Awesome. This is The Ramsey Show.
This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right, you've heard me say this a thousand times, and I'm going to keep saying it.
You're worth being well, and I believe therapy can help. Right now, BetterHelp is offering 90% off your first week of therapy, now through March 31st.
So if you've been on the fence, this is your chance to try therapy for a fraction of the cost. Because let's be honest, we all spend money on things we hope will make us feel better, like new clothes, organic groceries, gym memberships.
But when it comes to actually digging in and getting real with our mental and emotional well-being, we hesitate. We pause.
And I know actually going to therapy can seem like a huge first step, but please hear me. Your mental and emotional health are just as important as your physical health.
BetterHelp makes therapy more accessible than you think because it's online, so you can talk with your therapist when it works for your schedule. You just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist, and you can switch things.
Thank you. now through March 31st, 2025.
Visit BetterHelp.com slash Deloney to get started. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Deloney.
Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr.
John Deloney. Friendly reminder that you can watch the show live just south of Nashville, Tennessee, if you're making your way through town, we got a lovely audience here today.
And as the holidays approach, if you're coming through, come visit us. The show is free to watch through the glass.
We're like zoo animals out here. We got free coffee and baked goods in the cafe.
And you can leave with a free Ramsey show mug. So come see us.
We've got Mason up next in Henrietta, Oklahoma. What's going on, Mason? Hey, George and Dr.
John. How are y'all? Doing well.
How are you? I'm pretty good, I'd say. So my question is, I have a sister and a cousin that are in a position in life where they're getting ready to start getting their first cars and jobs and things like that.
And I've recently, the last couple months, started listening to the show and got really into it. And I haven't fully started the baby steps yet.
I've wanted to, I just haven't made that leap yet. And I'm just wondering, how do I convince them, because I can't do it with my life right now necessarily, but how would I convince them that doing things with cash and not worrying about credit scores and things like that are the way to go? So you're not doing the plan, but you want to convince others to do the plan? Is that the summary here? Yes.
You're excited about the plan, and you want them to be excited about the plan. Mason, this is the most America call I've ever received.
Like, we really want to do a thing that none of us are doing. So y'all do this thing.
I think the, as the great country lyric goes, you say it best when you say nothing at all, Mason. Just start paying with cash.
Just start getting connected with your wife. Your actions will speak louder than words.
If you roll up in there like, y'all need to start paying cash and getting rid of your debts. How about you just go, yeah, what'd you do today? Oh, I paid off my car.
Felt pretty good. How'd you do that? Well, I follow this plan.
And then if they're interested, they'll listen. But I've never been able to convince someone of something they were not interested in.
You just have to lead with intrigue, and they have to go, tell me more about this. So why haven't you started yet, Mason, if it's such a great plan? Well, I mean, I don't know.
I just haven't. I mean, I guess technically I'd be in baby step one.
I just haven't. I've got every dollar, and I've started the the budget and I'm getting stuff lined out.
I just need to start putting that first thousand dollars together. Um, and then I'll be going on it.
I know, but you didn't answer my question. If this is so great that you want all your friends and family to get involved, why haven't you? No, I don't know.
I don't think hesitation would be it. I think it's just, uh, I don't know.
I don't think hesitation would be it.

I think it's just, I don't know.

I think today's your day.

Yeah, where are you at financially?

Not terrible.

Great answer. I love the confidence theory.

I was like, hey, John, how's your marriage?

And John said, not terrible. Not terrible.
That means it's not great. So how much money do you make? Net maybe around $40,000.
Okay. And how much debt do you have? About $38,000 probably.
So, Mason, that's 100% leverage. That qualifies as terrible.
It's not great. How'd you get into this mess? You sound young.
How old are you? 22. Oh, yeah.
I was actually about where you were at 22. I was $36,000 in debt with student loans, $4,000 in credit card debt.
And I was making about what you were making. Where did you, where's your debt come from, brother? Um, so I have a, a truck.
I have about, um, 9,400 on. Um, and then we had, we were pretty close to paying off my wife's car.
And then, um, before we really got into all this, we got another car. You have three cars? No, just two.
Well, the other one, no, the other one we got rid of now, but my truck and her car together is about $95 and $16,500. Is she working outside the home? Not as of yet.
We got a nine-month-old little girl, and she's in her EMT school. So once she gets out of that, we're going to be looking into...
Okay. How.
How much debt does she have? Does that include in your 38 or is that just your debt? Um, I technically it's, uh, we're married, but, um, technically I guess it would all be mine or ours, but she's got a couple of collections from before we were married that are like a thousand dollars or something. But, um, well, her problems soon as you said i do so we got to get all of this listed all out smallest to largest i don't care whose debt it is i don't care what the interest rate is listed out by smallest balance the largest balance and let's start attacking these debts aggressively with the debt snowball right i got my uh every dollar budget set up as far as our payments, and I just, last night actually, wrote everything down on paper to look at.
And when you see between the small things and the vehicles, it adds up to $38,000. It's a little bit, takes your breath away a little bit, I think.
Mason, how quick can you get $1,000? Stop thinking about it and stop making lists. How quick can you get $1,000? A month, maybe.
I bet you can do it faster. What can you sell? You got some toys laying around? That thing that just popped in your head, that guitar, that tool thing, you can sell it.
The 4x4? I mean, honestly, we don't keep lot of like just things around. I want you to put two week time limit on yourself and go get $1,000.
You got two expensive cars sitting in that driveway, man. That's more than half your income.
Yeah. Just depreciating every single day, continuing to go further down in value.
I would consider selling your wife's car or yours, but it sounds like hers is worth more with a bigger payment.

True.

And could you then downgrade in car and get something for six grand

while you get out of debt and then upgrade later, a year or two from now?

That's the kind of sacrifice that would get your family talking.

They're going, do you see what they,

they sold her car and got this crummy little beater car.

What are they doing? So when Dave says the words gazelle intense he's been saying it forever when a lion shoots out of the brush after a gazelle a gazelle does not just sit around and like for a couple of months and like make a plan and like talk to the family like are you guys gonna run like i'm thinking running. The gazelle just starts running for its life.
And until you get that kind of intensity, brother, you're going to be 22, you're going to have a nine-month-old, you're going to have a wife, and you're going to be scared to death. Like you are right now.
I can hear it on you. Yeah, I'm also nervous.
I know. Don't be nervous.
We're not that great. that great we're not that good but you see what i'm saying like i want you to get fired up on behalf of the world you're going to create for your daughter that you didn't have which is a house that doesn't owe anybody anything can you imagine that yeah is your wife even on board um that would be my a1 i don't give a rip what your uncle larry's doing i want to know if your wife is willing to make the sacrifices needed um she definitely likes the idea of it and we've talked about it she makes fun of me a little bit because i talk about it so much because i got my head spins whenever i get involved in things like this and i'm excited about something my head spins and it's uh like a burnout essentially i don't you know it's all throttle no actual forward movement yet um and she just was telling me last night as well when we were talking about the debts that uh she wanted to start listening to the podcast and and get into it and see what it's all about and um so we can really kind of lock hands and go forward with it i think it's time to get on it brother i think it's time to get on it, brother.
I think it's time to get on it and tell her

in two weeks I'm going to have $1,000, we have an emergency

fund, and we're going to stop using

these credit cards and we're going to start knocking them off. We're going to list

our debt smallest to largest and get out of this mess.

No more games, man. I'm going to change what you

call rage, tear this roof off like two dogs' cage.

You hear that? That's exactly right.

There we go. There we go,

Mason. He knows what to do, John.
It's just

how would you find the motivation to do it? It's like, I love the idea of this Ramsey. Man, that sounds so cool, getting out of debt.
And then you just get paralyzed. Yeah, you have to lose yourself in the music in the moment.
You have to just own it. Yeah.
It's weird to think about. You really do have one opportunity to seize everything you wanted.
One moment. Well, I mean, you have multiple opportunities.
You just have to go for it, right? I mean, this one life, this one crazy life you have. Would you capture it or would you just let it slip? That's a good question.
You have to lose yourself in the music in the moment. That's because of all intensity.
I don't know what else to tell you. Go, go, go, go, go.
Mason, stop sitting around thinking about it and talking about it. Go get it.
You're sitting over there. Your palms are sweaty.
Knees weak. Arms are heavy.
Let's go. Let's just go for it, man.
Debt freedom is on the other side. What are you waiting for? Tell your wife, tell the kids, hide the wife, hide the kids.
I don't care. Just follow the Ramsey plan and call us back when you're debt free and we will celebrate with you, my man.
This is The Ramsey Show. I hate to admit this, but I don't always eat right.
I know I need to eat more fruits and veggies, but sometimes I just have to pound some chips because they taste so good. That's why I love my field of greens.
It helps me eat healthy when I don't have much time. And each fruit and vegetable in field of greens was doctor selected for a specific health benefit, heart, lungs, kidney, metabolism, even healthy weight.
And folks, I ain't getting any younger. It's super

easy to mix with water. And here is the great part of it.
I thought it might taste like grass,

but it tastes great. And only Field of Greens makes this promise.
Your doctor will notice

your improved health or your money back. So go to fieldofgreens.com slash Ramsey for 20%

off your first order. That's fieldofgreens.com slash Ramsey to save 20% on your first order.
Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr.
John Deloney. Open phones at 888-825-5225.
You know, John, over the years, we talk a lot about habits of the wealthy. Dave has always said, you want to be wealthy, do what wealthy people do.
You want to be broke, do what broke people do. That's normal.
So I thought it'd be fun to go through some of the actual habits so that people can identify where they're at. Whether or not they feel broke or feel wealthy, if you do these habits, you probably fall into these categories.
You ready for this? So here's what broke people do. Payday loans.
We see these in zip codes with lower incomes.

You see these payday, they look like old pizza huts a lot of the time.

There's title max and payday loans.

These are some of the worst.

The interest rates, when you actually do the math, are astronomical, and it keeps people

in a cycle of debt with these short-term crazy high loans.

Interest rates average 400%, so it keeps them chained.

Title loans is another one. We mentioned that.
High interest loans that that require your car as collateral because you have the title of the car. Buy here, pay here car lots.
You've seen the we tote the note. That's never a good sign.
Cash advance. That's another short term high interest loan against expected income.
Are you seeing a theme here? Rent to own. So again, they go, well, I'll at least be paying towards something.
But most of these have crazy hidden fees. And it might sound like a good idea, but it preys on people who have poor credit and can't come up with the money.
And then finally, the lottery. This is known as a tax on the poor.
It's a regressive tax. And if you look at who's playing the lottery, it's not people making $100,000.
It's people who can barely afford to cover the bills. And they're hoping with false hope, this is going to be their ticket out.
So it sounds like here it's, it's a, like what you just described. If I was to like put a theme over it is desperate.
I got to get through today. It's desperation.
Just got to get through this afternoon. Yeah.
Right. And if you are constantly waking up on a treadmill of, I got to get through this afternoon, I got to get through this afternoon.
There's plenty of people out there that are ready to prey on you. Yeah.
But here's the deal. Most people fall into this next category, which is average, normal.
And here's what average people do. They chase credit card rewards.
How many times have we gotten this call? Well, I really, you are spending so many brain calories chasing these rewards and the companies love it that you think you're winning, that you think you're gaming the system. Recent survey shows 23% of people didn't even redeem the rewards in the last 12 months and there's a reason they went away from cash back now it's well you're going to have a bajillion points what are those points worth it's like a chuck e cheese you have all these tickets that can't even buy you a you know one of those little sticky hands that's ridiculous and the number of things i've bought for christmas for people online i get so many emails back it's like you've now got five points with whatever shoes and five x the point like what i don't even know it's all been gamified i don't know what you're talking about yep the next one on the list this is what average people do they buy new cars and they go well john it's gonna it's gonna last longer it's safer it's more reliable for my family just admit it's for your ego yeah just admit that used cars are less expensive expensive.
You've already taken the hit on depreciation. You let someone else do it.
We know new cars dropped 60% in value in the first five years. We know the average new car payment is now over $700 a month.
And if you're leasing a car because you think it's somehow smarter, you're the dummy here. You're just renting very expensively and you're prepaying all of that depreciation.
You're paying the dealership's depreciation for them on the vehicle they just bought. But John, I don't have to do anything.
It includes the insurance. Okay.
Keep telling yourself that, buddy. Next up on the list is HELOCs.
We've seen a big rise in HELOCs over the last few years because people have all this home equity and they get marketed to and they say, hey, this is basically a credit card attached to the value of your home. You're not actually borrowing money.
You're borrowing it from yourself, John. It's a great plan.
And what are the calls we get? Hey, we're stuck because we have the HELOC on top of the mortgage and it's killing us. And most of these HELOCs have a variable interest rate and you're putting your home at risk and your family at risk by doing this.
And, of course, the next one, this is part of the American stew here. We got the student loans.
To give a 17 or 18 year old hundreds of thousands of dollars for their business idea of getting this degree to hopefully have- Or their passion. Marketplace ROI.
What are you passionate about? Oh my goodness. When you're 18.
I can't even say on the air what I was passionate about when I was 18. I'm just glad I didn't get $100,000 to pursue it.
We shouldn't. If it was a business, we'd all go at the bank.
The bank would go, this is a terrible business idea. What are you going to do with a sociology degree? Socio stuff? Don't do this.
There's no way out. Student loans are not discharged by declaring bankruptcy.
So you can't even get out of this thing through bankruptcy. The next one that we get a lot of, and this is a very middle-class move, is buying whole life insurance.
And it's some dude from college who's like, hey, did you know this is what the wealthy do? They buy life insurance and they borrow against it, and it's tax-free. It's a wealth hack.
And I go, dude, this guy just scammed you into thinking that you should be investing through your insurance. Think about how dumb that sounds, that you're using your insurance as an investment tool.
It's super expensive, and we know that term life is a fraction of the cost, and you can invest the difference and be way better off than giving someone fat commissions. And then finally, buy now, pay later.
This is one we see average people do. I just saw this on a website, John.
It said it was $140 for this pajama set. And then underneath, it had the girl math of 36 cents per night.
They divided it out over a year and said, well, listen, it's 36 cents a night. And if you wear it every night, I mean, you're basically making money off of that.
So it's insane what they're doing with buy now, pay later, with the marketing tactics. I like this here.
It says the average person asks not,

how much does that cost?

They ask, how much is it going to cost me a month?

And can I make this pile of monthly payments?

Can I make that less than I make?

And people feel like I'm spending less than I make.

I'm living less than I earn

when their payments all add up to that,

not the total purchases. That's right.
Broke people ask how much down, how much a month. Wealthy people just ask how much.
How much. What is the out the door cost? What is the total? And if I can't afford it today in full, in cash, don't do it.
That's a surefire way to be wealthy. So this is what wealthy people do.
Number one, they don't pay interest. We've said this, broke people pay interest, wealthy people earn it.
That's what they're doing. They're investing in assets through real estate, through mutual funds, whatever it is, and that's giving them money.
Broke people buy things that go down in value and take their money through interest. And so that is a big thing.
Their goal is to have assets, not liabilities. Another thing wealthy people do is they buy used cars.
Even those that have the money to buy a new car in cash and they could light that money on fire on the kitchen table and it wouldn't mess with their world, they still go, why would I take the hit on depreciation instead of someone else and buy a four-year-old car? Here's what our millionaire study found. Most millionaires are driving Hondas and Toyotas.
Not crazy luxury cars, not Lamborghinis. Our millionaire theme hour backs this up.
So we might as well have those hours sponsored by Toyota. So reach out, reach out.
Next one, John, this one won't shock you. They pay off their mortgage.
A lot of people think, well, wealthy people know that you can invest a difference and become very wealthy. So they hang on to their mortgages for 30 years and then refinance for another.
Nope, not what we found. They get rid of their mortgage on average 10.2 years, our millionaire study found.
And so following the baby steps, we teach pay off your mortgage early. I don't care if the interest rate is 9% or 2%.
Getting rid of that payment allows you to build more wealth, which brings us to the last one. What do wealthy people do? They invest for the future.
Eight out of 10 millionaires studied, invested in their company's 401k, three out of four invested outside of the company plan. They know that investing over a long period of time instead of buying crap you don't need with money you don't have is the key to building wealth.
That's it. It sounds simple, but it's so nuanced because you would think that wealthy people just do what they want and they're not really intentional and that when you're broke, you have to be more intentional.
We found the opposite. Well, it's like a, it's, I think the great lie in this country is one day you get to retire so you can quote unquote do nothing.
And I think people consider wealth, I want to get enough money so I don't have to worry about it. And that's not how it works.
And if I was to come up with a theme for the wealthy people, it is they don't make other people rich and they solve for peace. And so a wealthy person, you always want to ask, like, I want to be a billionaire by 40.
And I always want to say, why? For what? So you can sleep at night? Okay, give your body the opportunity to live in a home that nobody can take away from you. Then you're going to sleep, right? Then you're going to have peace.
And so they pay off their mortgage. They invest.
They know that come what may, I'm going to be okay then. No one can take my house now.
It's this idea. It's they're thinking about tomorrow, not just this afternoon, not this afternoon.
But if you solve for peace, not for credit card points or not for the difference between my 2.9 and my, solve for, I'm telling you, man,

there's a, you get wealthy for a reason.

You don't get wealthy for the sake of wealthy.

And I think our culture has missed that completely.

We have no why behind it.

We have none.

We just judge ourself.

How much are you worth?

It's a number.

And that, and that,

the answer to that question is never a number.

And we always are like, okay, what are we worth?

What are you worth?

What are you worth?

Instead of saying, why?

And dude, I don't want, I don't care what my interest rate of my house is. I don't want anyone to be able to take my house away, so I'm gonna pay it off, right? And wealthy people solve for different problems.
That's a good lesson right there. And if you wanna see where you stack up, we have a free get started assessment you can check out.
It's a quick quiz to see if you're on track. Go check out the quiz.
It's in the show notes, the description, wherever you're listening and click on the title, Are You On Track with the Baby Steps? Good stuff, John. This has been The Ramsey Show.
You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies and there's too little life insurance or none at all. Grieving families are suddenly left behind scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet.
I also discovered that there are a lot of ripoffs in the life insurance world like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity. What you need is level term life insurance usually 10 to 12 times your income which is the smartest most affordable way to protect your family the key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for you not for the insurance company this is exactly what my friend Jeff Zander and his team at Zander Insurance are all about they shop the term life companies to find you the best options and they've been around for over 95 years

so you know they'll be there when you need them zander is the real deal and that's why they've

handled all my personal insurance for over 25 years i trust them and you can too visit zander.com

for instant online quotes or for a more personal touch give them a call at 800-356-4282. Live from the Ramsey Network, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships.
I'm George Campbell, joined by bestselling author, Dr. John Deloney, and we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225.
You call us up, and we'll give you the right next step for your life and your money. Sharon's going to kick us off in Sacramento, California.
What's going on, Sharon? Well, I just have a quick question regarding transferring balances to a HELOC loan, and I'm not sure if that's a good idea because the interest rate on the HELOC is lower than the credit card. So I wanted to get some input.
So what's the balance on the credit card? It's about $2,300. And what's the balance on the HELOC? About $13,000.
Okay. And what was the reason for both of these? What'd you use it for? Well, the HELOC, two years ago, I had to replace my roof and I didn't want to refinance at a higher rate.
So I got the HELOC to replace my roof on my house. And then the credit card, the water pump in my car costs a little bit more than I anticipated, and I had to repair that about six months ago.
How long have you been living on the edge like this with no money for emergencies? Probably for a pretty long time. I mean, I have $1,500 in my savings, but I didn't want to use it for the car.
I didn't want to drain it to zero. It kind of scared me.
It scares me to be in credit card debt at 25% interest, trying to transfer it to a 13% interest HELOC. Well, no, actually, my HELOC is at 4.5, and my credit card is at 13%.
Okay. So here's the hard truth is that the interest rates aren't the problem.
Okay. You can pay off $2,300 and the interest is going to be negligible.
Okay. The harder thing we have to deal with is getting out of this cycle where we turn to debt and then try to move one debt to the other piece of debt to pay off the debt.
I want you out of this cycle. Don't you want to be out of this rat maze? Oh, absolutely.
I spent all last year paying off four other credit cards. So, I mean, I was doing the baby steps before I knew about the baby steps.
So what if instead of transferring the balance and paying a balance transfer fee to move it to the HELOC to hope to pay off the HELOC, what if we just said, I'm done. I'm going to pay off the card and then cut up the card.
I'm not going to go into credit card debt again. I'm going to build an emergency fund and I'm going to get out of this HELOC and I'm going to start a maintenance sinking fund for all the things I know are coming up.
I want you to get ahead of this so that life isn't just happening to you. And it sounds like it's been that way for a long time.
Are you doing this alone? Are you married? Single? No, I am divorced. I am doing this alone.
How old are you? I'm 60. What does 65 Sharon want to be doing? Well, 65 Sharon wants to hopefully retire and build a long arm quilting business.
Oh, that's fun fun. Sounds awesome.
So you want to plan to retire? Yeah, I'm planning to retire and use the long-arm business to supplement my income because I know I won't have enough for 401k and retirement, yada yada. So what are you making right now? About 65.
Awesome. And what's your total debt other than your mortgage? The HELOC, the credit card, everything.

Okay, well... About 65.
Awesome. And what's your total debt other than your mortgage? The HELOC, the credit card, everything.
Okay. Well, my long-arm machine, I still have 13 on it, and I have 13 on the HELOC.
And 23 on the credit card. 2,300 on the credit card.
1,300 or 13,000? 13,000. On the first one.
And what was that? Yes. The longarm machine.
And what does that do? I'm not privy to this. Oh, and your quilting machine? So the longarm machine puts the pretty pattern on the quilt to sandwich it together.
And it was, you owe 13,000 on that machine?

Roughly, yes.

What are you making from this business right now?

At the moment, nothing.

Only because the timing on my machine isn't working correctly,

so I can't quilt other people's quilts, and I don't want to ruin their quilt.

Oh, boy.

So you have a $13,000 depreciating asset in your house. It's a paperweight.
It doesn't work? Well, it works. I just need someone to pay somebody to come out and fix the timing on my machine.
Oh man. My honest thought is if you want to have this dream where you get to do this one day, you might have to sell this thing to get out of the debt.
Because my guess is you don't have a ton of margin left over every month.

Have you done a budget where you list out, here's all my expenses,

here's what I'm taking home, here's what I have left to pay down the debts?

Yes.

And how much is left? I don't necessarily, not much.

And what's the payment on this machine?

$260.

So you'd have an extra $260 to throw at the debt, at least. That'll help you get out of this credit card debt, which will free up another payment.
Do you see how this debt snowball would work? If you pay off the smallest debt first, which would be the credit cards, you'd free up a credit card payment. And if you sold the machine, you'd free up another $260.
Now we can use that to attack the HELOC and be out of this debt.

My guess is making $65,000, getting on a real solid written budget,

you could be out of this debt completely in under a year.

So at $61,000, we're debt-free.

By $62,000, we have a fully funded emergency fund.

And then we're maxing out all of the retirement accounts we can for a few years

so that we can retire with dignity.

Okay. Then we're buying a quilting machine with cash.
That's ours. And probably used off Facebook marketplace from someone named Sharon who said, Hey, I can't fix it.
If you can fix it, good luck to you. I'm selling it for five grand and you'll get a deal on it.
You'll buy the same exact machine back from your alter you at half the price. Hmm.
How does that sound? Not sound? Not the question you called in for, but that's the answer I would give to my own sister or mom or friend. Yeah, you're talking to two guys who have moms in your age vicinity.
Okay. And both of us are getting nervous right now.
Why are you getting nervous?

Thinking about our mom and your situation.

Because I want my mom to retire with dignity.

I don't want to see her struggling with bills as she enters retirement,

wondering how she's going to make ends meet

with no ability to work a full-time job.

That scares me.

And I also want to acknowledge how heartbreaking it is.

This is not how you drew it up, how you thought things were going to be when you're 60 is it no no and so I think instead of having dreams that you know we're going to put on a credit card here or move some money around here or get a credit card and put on a heloc here I think there there comes a moment when you sit down and acknowledge I I did not, this is not how I drew this up.

I had a ride or die and for whatever reason, my marriage fell apart.

I don't know why I'm still here in Sacramento.

I want you to have those conversations and get with a friend and grieve it.

And then be intentional.

And the word I use here is not to mock anybody or point fingers,

but it's, I have to choose reality.

Here's reality.

I really want to do quilts.

And right now I can't afford to do that because math. Okay.
And I really want to be free when I'm 65. And that means I'm going to have to work really hard at 61.
I don't want to be,

you don't deserve to be mom should be having their feet up at 61 and playing with grandkids

and rolling. Like, you know what I mean? And unfortunately that's just not your reality.
So let's get there as quick as we can and let's go do the next hard hard hard things for 61 and 62 so that 65 75 85 year old you has a pretty sweet ride okay you're gonna have to reverse engineer this sharon that's why i want you to envision that 65 year old sharon and then say what must true to get there? And that might mean selling this machine for now so that I can have it later with freedom instead of stress as I'm quilting. This is The Ramsey Show.
You shouldn't own a gun. You're not willing to shoot.
In moments of self-defense, a Berna launcher lets you protect yourself in a non-lethal way. That's exactly why Berna launchers were created.
Everyone from parents and nurses to pastors and even special forces veterans rely on Berna to protect themselves and their families. I own several Bernas myself.
They look like guns, but they're not. They shoot a 68 caliber round kinetic or chemical irritant projectile that can disable a threat from up to 60 feet away.
And they're powered by compressed CO2 cartridges, so they're classified with paintball and airsoft guns. But they're more powerful than those for increased protection.
Not to mention, Berna launchers are legal in all 50 states with no permits required, and because they're not firearms, they can be shipped directly to your door. Plus, Ramsey fans can get 10% off an exclusive bundle, which includes a Berna pistol, CO2 cartridges, and ammo.
And other Burna products like safety alarms, defense sprays, and body armor are also 10% off for our listeners. Just go to Burna.com slash Dave to learn more.
That's B-Y-R-N-A dot com slash Dave. Listen, I know a lot of you would rather watch paint dry in slow motion than file your taxes.
But thankfully, you don't have to dread filing when you've got Ramsey SmartTax. It comes packed with everything you need to file online before the big deadline.
That means all major federal forms and deductions are covered with no hidden fees. Plus, with Ramsey SmartTax, you can save up to 70% compared to other tax software out there.
It's a no-brainer. Just go to RamseySolutions.com slash SmartTax and see how simple tax filing can be.
That's RamseySolutions.com slash SmartTax. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show.
I'm George Campbell and joined by Dr. John Deloney.
Hey, today's the last day of our extended Cyber Monday sale, and that means it's the last day you can get prices as low as $8 on meaningful gifts for everyone on your list. We got best-selling hardcover books and assessments for just $12.
Total Money Makeover, Building a Non-Anxious Life, they get Clear Career Assessment, and more. Plus, audiobooks are on sale for just $8.
Baby Steps Millionaires, Paycheck to Purpose, Own Your Past, Change Your Future, just $8 for the audiobook there. And for the first time ever, my book, Breaking Free from Broke, is on sale for just $12.
That's incredible, and it's a great gift for young adults. I'm going to expose all the money myths and traps out there and show you a better path to build wealth in this crazy world we find ourselves in.
So go to RamseySolutions.com slash store to check out all of the Cyber Monday Week deals. And if you're listening on YouTube or podcast, just click the link in the show notes or description.
All right, let's go out to Caleb in Portland up next. What's going on, Caleb? You with us? Hello.
Yes, sorry. My question was, I was wondering, I've got here in about a year, I'm going to be coming into a, about $37,000

personal injury settlement, and I'm a new father, and I just kind of want to make sure that I set up

my family, and make sure that, you know, I just, I do the right things with it, instead of

looking back on it a year, five years, and being like, damn, I really wasted an opportunity,

or darn, sorry. I apologize.

That's wise. Are you okay now? How's your health?

I'm all right. Just a little shaky.
I apologize.

No, it's good. I'm just wondering, do you have ongoing health issues that you take care of?

Do you need this money for anything related to the injury?

No, sir. I'm debt-free.

I'm not at all into your guys' baby steps.

It's something I need to definitely look into.

I know my grandma is a big fan of your guys' show.

Grandmas love us.

What can we say?

Yes, sir.

So you're debt-free.

So you kind of followed the plan already by accident. Yes, sir.
You have no debt. Are you guys renting right now? Yes, sir.
Okay. And do you have an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses? No, sir.
Okay. Where are you at on savings? I don't have any savings.
Well, congratulations. You will a year from now.
And I, I, here's my encouragement to you, get an emergency fund before you ever get the settlement. Cause you said you're getting, you're going to get it a year from now.
Uh, roughly it'll be February of 26. Okay.
So even more, even longer than a year. So you need an emergency fund now.
So that would be your next goal is to add up what it takes to run your household for a month. Let's say it's $5,000 and you want a four-month emergency fund.
That's $20,000. So how much do you make as a household? I make roughly, I think, $40,000 a year.
I honestly don't know. I was trying to figure that out because they asked me.
I answered $19 an hour. So I'm not very well-versed.
Okay. So you get paid hourly and you're working 40 hours a week? Yes, sir.
And 19 bucks. Yeah.
That's about 40 grand. Okay.
So your next goal is to go, how much can we squeeze out of this budget, aside from basic bills, to get that emergency fund in place so that then we can begin investing? And once you get that settlement money, now it's, well, what can we do with this? Maybe a start of a down payment to buy a house one day. Right.
Is that a goal for you guys? Well, this is something that happened when I was in middle school, and that was always my thought was to buy a house, to not squander it. But I'm not the financial guru.
That's kind of why I called you guys. Well, you don't need to be a financial guru.
You just got to stay out of debt, have money in the bank to cover emergencies, and then begin building for the future. And that would mean following the baby steps, you'd be investing 15% of your income into retirement accounts, you'd be putting money away for that down payment.
And when the time is right, you can get that house. And you're 24, there's no rush to do any of this, but I want to put you in a position so that you have options.
Yes, sir. So I'm going to send you my book, Breaking Free from Broke.
It's going to walk you through this whole process so that when you do get this money you'll know what to do with it because i can tell you don't want to squander it and as a new dad i'm a new dad too i'm it changes the way you look at things you're not doing things for yourself anymore if you look at our purchases on amazon and target it's mostly for the baby now and so i love that you're you're looking at this from a legacy perspective and not just a selfish 22-year-old knucklehead perspective. Well, that's been the last 24 years, and I got the next set of years to not be selfish and take care of the kids.
I love it. Hey, you're wiser than John and I were at your age.
I'll tell you that much, man. I didn't even know what day it was when I was 24, man.
So good on you, brother. It's awesome.

Yeah, and I hope you heal up fully from that incident.

So hang on in line, and we're going to have our friend Taylor send you that book, Breaking Free from Broke.

Kate's up next in Alberta, Canada.

What's going on, Kate?

Hi there.

Hi, guys.

Thanks so much for taking my call.

Sure.

I love learning about how to best utilize our money and need your guys' help with something because I've been wrestling it around in my head with many different scenarios. So my husband and I want to build a modest lake home in our retirement, but I'm just cautious.
I don't want to make a mistake or spend unwisely. So just a bit of background.
My husband and I have had a few hard goes in life, but now after putting our noses to the grindstone on our own, we've established financial security, we think. We've been in collaboration with our financial advisor.
And so our financial picture looks like this. It's a little bit different in Canada.
We have RRSPs for retirement

savings. And my husband has $750,000 in his.
I have $150,000 in mine. We have combined $300,000

in our tax-free savings account. We have an extra $140,000 saved up in cash.
Our primary house is worth $440,000, and that is paid off. Awesome.
We have an additional rental house that's worth about $400,000, but we have $150,000 worth of mortgage still on that. What I alluded to earlier, I know this was a poor decision, but we were doing the best we could without any parental guidance or help.
We bought Universal Life, and so we have $650,000 that will be a payout on our death. And so thoughts moving forward, I just recently retired.
So as well as my hundred and fifty in my RSP, I have a defined pension benefit of three thousand dollars a month. My husband, I'm fifty four.
And so I'm hoping because I've gone through some tough health issues, that I could retire. And my husband is 56, and he's looking at maybe working for a couple more years.
And so our financial advisor really feels strongly that, you know, we are okay to be able to, you know, have some good deaccumulation strategies in retirement, and we should have kind of a nice little legacy at the end. So what's the retirement home going to be able to have some good deaccumulation strategies in retirement,

and we should have kind of a nice little legacy at the end.

So what's the retirement home going to cost?

About $400,000.

And will you be paying cash for that?

Well, see, that's the thing.

I have to figure out all the nuances about RSPs and tax-free savings,

but we don't really want to tap into that. So our thoughts are that if we kept both of our homes, like the one that we've paid off our primary home, and we can use the rental income to help boost our income in retirement, we could remortgage our rental property.
So that money- Can I be honest with you? I don't like the idea of remortgaging anything as you head into retirement. That's adding risk and stress into your life.
So here's what I would do because we're short on time. I would pay off the rental and if you have the money and it's not going to decimate your nest egg, you can build that retirement home one day.
Right now, it looks like you guys are going to rent a wonderful home for a few weeks as a vacation home, but I would not sink 400 grand of your nest egg. That's a third to half of what you guys have right now.
And I'm not super confident in this plan. I want you to solve for peace.
You have 5,000 moving puzzle pieces and it's exhausting just listening to you trying to balance this and move this over here and try this thing. Try solving for peace.
How simple can we make this? How simple can we have the life that we want to live? Seek that option. This is The Ramsey Show.
As an investor and a person of faith, when your mutual funds and ETFs put your money into the dark side, you might feel a disturbance. Well, good news, Timothy Plan offers investments for people who want to be intentional about where their money goes.
As the pioneering force in biblically responsible investing, Timothy Plan entered the investment space to offer clean alternatives to secular funds that invest in stuff you'd never willingly expose your family to. And for more than 30 years, Timothy Plan has offered mutual funds and ETFs that won't contradict your values or sabotage your faith.
So, if you're serious about investing with a clear conscience, Timothy Plan could be just what you're searching for. Contact your financial advisor today to see if Timothy Plan is right for you.
Or visit timothyplan.com for more information. Investing includes risk, including possible loss of principal.
Before investing, carefully consider a fund's investment objective, risks, charges, and expenses contained in the prospectus available at timothyplan.com. Read carefully before investing.
Mutual funds distributed by Timothy Partners LTD and ETFs distributed by Four Side Fund Services LLC. Hey guys, good news.
Pre-sale is on now for my new book, Build a Business You Love. If you're a business owner, you know running a business is hard.
That's why I wrote this book, to share what we learned over the last 30 years so business owners can grow your business faster with fewer mistakes. Pre-order your copy today and you'll get access to over $350 in bonus items only at ramseysolutions.com slash store.
ramseysolutions.com slash store.

Pre-order today. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show.
I'm George Camel joined by Dr. John Deloney.
The number to call is 888-825-5225. The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Why Refi.
We trust Why Refi because they help people who have defaulted private student loans to refinance with a low fixed interest rate they couldn't get anywhere else. Chris had a student loan and he cut his payment by over 40% with YRefi.
So go to YRefi.com today slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey.
May not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Jenna in Minnesota.
Jenna writes, A few years ago, my husband loaned some money to a friend and also let the friend use his credit card. He thought the person was trustworthy, but by the time we realized what this guy had spent, he owed us about $15,000.
He pays us back here and there, but it's only a couple hundred bucks every few months. At this rate, I'm worried this guy doesn't actually intend to pay us back the full amount and is only paying us occasionally to keep us happy.
We recently found out he had taken advantage of at least two other people as well and still owes them also. Are there any legal measures we can take that won't cost us more than it's worth? Walk away, Jenna.
This is what we call a stupid tax. It's a $15, it's a heartbreaking tax it's a I thought you were a better friend tax but walk away you are expending way more emotional and relational and psychological energy over this than he is and so it's it's like that old AA adage you're drinking poison every morning hoping that he gets sick and dies.
It's not how it works. You're the one getting sick.
You and your husband, wash your hands of this thing, block this guy on social media and go about your life and just know we're never going to loan friends money again. We will give our friends money.
We'll give it to them all the time generously and recklessly. But I'm not going to loan any money because it just puts a huge wedge between us and our relationship.
That's it. So I don't, I don't think this is worth going to judge Judy over to some civil court to try to get the money back.
Cause my guess is he doesn't have it. He's not secretly hoarding hundreds of thousands of dollars.
And, uh, you know, you learn the lesson here is you lost a friend over this and it wasn't worth it. And he did this to other people.
And the fact that he couldn't use his own credit card because he was doing that bad financially, that you lent him your credit card, that's asking for fraud. And the problem is it's not fraud, because you willingly gave this guy this money and loaned it to him.
So think about this in court. The judge is going to say, let me see the contract.
And you're going to say, well, we don't have one. What are the terms

you all agreed on

for when he'd pay it back?

We don't have any.

He just said when he could.

And did he steal your credit card?

No, I gave it to him.

No, I handed it to him.

I didn't think he was going

to spend 15 grand.

Did you tell him

don't spend 15 grand?

No.

So it's one of those things

that it defies

the implied social contract

we all have with each other,

which is to treat each other with dignity and respect. You guys got spit in the face, and I hate this for you.
So you can just sit there with spit on your face, getting mad at him and mad at him, or you can clean up and go on about your life and just know, like the Delonies, we don't loan money to our friends. I'll give money all day long.
I might loan money because it creates a

wedge in our relationship. My friendships

are too valuable to me. 100%.

By the way, if somebody comes and says, hey, can I borrow

some money? And you say, hey, we don't loan

money to friends. Tell me what's going on.

And they launch into, well, screw you.

Who do you think you are? They aren't your friend.

They are not your friend.

They want to use you as a bank.

You were just a pawn in their scheme. Yes.
You were a means means to an end and it's a good litmus test of your relationship if your friends piss and moan about your your boundaries so sorry jenna but i would you and your husband would uh as the great jay-z says brush your shoulders off and move on i thought you're gonna go elsa let it go total frozen all right frozen. All right.
Fine. That's fine.
You're cooler. You're cooler.
My kids are older than yours.

All right. Justin is up next in Oklahoma City.
What is going on, Justin? Hello. Yes, I'm Justin.
I'm currently 18 and I'm attending college for a cybersecurity degree with a full ride.

Cool.

So I got a job offer for between $14 and $20 an hour back in my hometown for full time. So at the higher end, that's about $52,000 a year with overtime included because it's a 50-hour work week.
So it would be an operation technician for a Bitcoin mining company.

And while that can seem sketchy, they contacted me through my trade school,

and they have a good history with my trade school.

So I'm just wondering how much of a salary would it make it worth it for me to drop out of college?

How far along are you in your program?

So I attended a concurrent degree whenever I was in high school. So frankly, I'm three semesters into my program out of eight, out of eight.
Um, man, I, I might be on an Island here, but, um, if you were my son, I would tell you, you have a Willy Wonka ticket, which is a free ride to a college education. I would take that ticket.
For a great degree. For a great degree.
And the money you'll be making in cybersecurity, you're going to be like, why did I leave all this for a $14 an hour job for a Bitcoin company? Which, regardless of my thoughts on Bitcoin, is very volatile. And so this company could go under and they could say, hey man, we shut down operations yesterday.
You don't have a job anymore. And so I would continue down this path.
If Bitcoin really is what everyone says it is, it's going to be around a long time. And if you are qualified at 18, you're going to be very qualified by 22.
So I would keep pursuing this path of cybersecurity, knowing that you're going to make six figures upon graduation, working for a reputable company with great benefits. And I would pass on this job right now.
Yeah. And you're going to have a certificate.
You're going to have a credential that no one can ever take from you.

The credential plus the training. And I think that's invaluable.
And let me tell you this,

can I just, can I applaud you? 18 years old and someone's coming out of the gate offering you 40

grand just to walk away from everything. You know what that me you're in rare air my brother that means you work hard that means you're very smart that means you get your stuff turned in on time your grades are good that means they've already they're already identifying you and what's hard when you're 18 is when somebody sees you and they and and you feel seen you feel known it feels so good that it's easy to get derailed.

And it's the 18-year-olds with wisdom that say, okay, if I got this at 18, just imagine how many people are going to be knocking on my door when I'm 20 and I'm fully credentialed. And you're going to have zero, none, no student debt because the school is paying for it, man.
Full ride. It's a Willy Wonka ticket, brother.
You won. So I can tell you, I've worked with college students my whole life, but more than that, I'm just telling you what I would tell my son, which is ride this out, get the education, get their credential.
This is a valuable degree and will only get more valuable over time. And these, these jobs at Bitcoin, I mean, dude, you're going to have jobs lined up for you.
So that's my recommendation. All right.
Thanks for your time. Hey, congratulations, man.
It does my heart good to know. You're building the infrastructure that my kids are going to grow up in, man.
And I'm glad to know there's young people out there like you out there busting it, working hard and making their grades, dude. That's awesome.
That's huge. And John, there's a lot of students out there, 17, 18 years old, and they're going, what the heck am I supposed to do with my life? I'm getting this degree because I was told it was the next right step I take out of high school.
And so you've got to also weigh your options here and go, if Justin was getting a useless degree that he wasn't excited about and his parents just said, you have to go to college, do something, and he was just aiming at nothing and spending 50 grand a year in debt to do it, we'd probably say, hey, dude, pause, go work, go do the job, make in 40 grand a year, cash flow college later when you know what you want to do. This was different where he's going.
He's in a great field. Sounds like he knows what he's doing.
He's excited about cybersecurity. Stay down the path and don't get distracted.
Yes. And it's just that understanding that the jobs will come, the jobs will come, the jobs will come.
Yes. If you find yourself, your parents are saying, you're going to be a doctor and you just finished your first semester in college and you hate it, you hate, you hate, you know, okay, I mean, you hate biology and somebody comes along and says, I'll pay you 40 grand to come home.
Take that job. Right.
And that's a great situation to figure out what's next for you. But if you're on the path and someone tries to, in that same field, get you off the path early, the discipline thing is to stay on the path.
Right. And it checked a lot of boxes for me.
It was a full ride with a great degree on the other side. And he's already three semesters in, young guy, already has, you know, clept some credits here and there, so I feel like let's ride this out and see where it goes.
My guess is four years from now, he's not looking back with regret that he didn't take the $15 an hour job. He's going, oh my goodness, I'm doing what I love to do.
I'm on a $120 an hour job. Yes, exactly.
I would aim your sights higher when you're as smart as Justin is. So thanks for the call.
This is the Ramsey show. I talk to people every day who want to know how to do better in two areas, money and relationships.
That's why I'm pumped to bring the money and relationships tour to a city near you. Join me and Dr.
John Deloney for a night that will challenge the way you think about this stuff and possibly change how you live forever. Starting April 21st, we'll be in Louisville, then on to Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth, and Kansas City.
Grab your tickets at RamseySolutions.com slash tour before they're gone. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show.
I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney.
Open phones at 888-825-5225. Well, it's that time of year.
In a few weeks, we're going to be doing a special giving edition of The Ramsey Show. Dave Ramsey and I will be hosting that one, and we want to hear stories from you about how you have given generously this season.
Maybe you tipped a waitress a hundred bucks. You bought Thanksgiving dinner for a family who couldn't afford one.
Maybe you bless someone in need by giving them a car, or maybe you've been on the receiving end and had your life changed by someone who has given generously to you. We want to hear that story.
Go to RamseySolutions.com slash ask, A-S-K, and put giving in the subject line. RamseySolutions.com slash ask.
Put giving in the subject line. It's one of our favorite shows.
It's coming up on December 18th. Start sending in your stories so we can celebrate living like no one else so that you can give like no one else.
And if you didn't know, this hour of the show, when it ends, you're going to miss out if you're not over on the Ramsey Network app where we're doing a whole nother hour. The Ramsey Network app is the only place to get full episodes of the Ramsey show.
You can download it for free using the link in the show notes or by searching Ramsey Network in your app store. And if you're on radio, stay tuned.
The show will continue. But if you're on YouTube or podcast, anyone else, don't miss what's next.
Finish the show in the Ramsey Network app. They also just rolled over my show, the Dr.
John DeLune show. I heard that.
With video on the network app. So now it's the place to be.
It's where the party's at. All of your favorite shows.
You can get my show a week in advance before it launches out in the real world. Nice.
Now you can tell all your friends, like, wait, what? Yeah, dude, I get it early in the app. Where you been? Yeah, it's kind of the cool flex is to be on the app.
Don't be late to the party. I don't even get invited to the party, let alone late.
You'll get there one day. Steve's in San Antonio up next.
What's going on, Steve? Yes, thanks for taking my call. I'm talking about the identity theft.
Let's talk about it. I'm being bombarded with data breach letters, and it's all from either the hospital or their vendors or ambulance service.
And it's really, and for somebody like myself who doesn't really know that much about about the high tech world it's uh it's bothering me it's messing with my head and uh just want to know if there's an easy way to get to you know take yourself out of the system some kind of way when you say bombarded sometimes when i get nervous or frustrated or i'm in a world i don't understand i'll say bombarded or i'm getting blown up but actually it's like two or three so how many letters i mean how many how many times have you been the victim of a data breach five times since 2017 five times okay and it's like a hospital or an er or something like that Yeah, it's just hospital. The vendors for the hospital, you know, and more than one hospital.
And then this ambulance service that's the latest, and the only reason they took me on in 2017, that's a long time ago. So are these emails, texts, phone calls, how are they contacting you? Letters.
Letters. Letters in the mail.
All right. Yeah, and sometimes those letters just say, hey, a big block of things got exposed.
It doesn't even mean anybody took anything. It means somebody hacked into a thing, and they may have gotten 10 names, but there was 10 million names in there, and yours was one of the 10 million.
So it can be pretty confusing. I've got a couple of routes for you.
Here's the thing, getting quote unquote out of the system at this point, and you're talking to a guy that spent my whole life trying to avoid being on the internet. John is a privacy nerd.
I am, it's a game for me. I don't even know that his real name is John.
It's, it's for sure not. It's Daryl, right? It's, but so I don't, I, I have tried to opt out.
I've, I've recently relented. There's not a way out.
And so I think the things to do is to protect yourself. There you go.
So two things that I do and that George does too, um, is one, I work with a company called Delete Me and you can go to joindeleteme.com. J-O-I-N delete me.com.
Slash Ramsey. We'll take you right there.
Yeah. Or slash Deloney because then I get credit for it.
Oh, wow. Slash Ramsey.
Wow. But here's the deal.
They go through and pull all of your, anything on the dark web where they're selling your like spammers and scammers and people trying to steal your data they pull it all off the internet and they send you a report every month it's pretty amazing what they do the second thing is to get identity theft protection from our friends at xander i've got it george has it and it's really inexpensive in the rare case that you get your identity stolen and even money stolen money's to take it out of your account it's very rare if it happens it happened to george once yeah never happened to me if if it does happen um they've stolen funds recovery they go chase it down for you so so in a world like i'm like you man i don't know how any of this stuff works i don't get it if you told me to log into the dark web i don't even know what that is i don't even know what that is i don't even know how twitter right? But I trust these folks that if something does happen, they're going to chase it down and help me out. So those are the two ways I protect me and my family right now.
What's the name of that place again? We'll make sure to get you the links. Hang on the line.
But if you go to joindeleteme.com slash Ramsey, you'll get 20% off their plans. And they're real affordable.
We're talking like nine bucks a month steve and then same with xander id theft very affordable about the same price and they do two different things uh but they're both wise to have and it'll give you peace of mind for that 20 bucks a month you're spending for all this you're gonna sleep better at night and i'll tell you anecdotally steve i've got a lot i've much fewer text messages and phone calls and spam since signing up for this. All right.
Well, I was thinking about turning my money into gold and burying it. No.
No. Don't do that.
The banks are not the issue, Steve. So keep your money in a bank.
It's much safer there if it's FDIC insured, which most banks you're using are going to be. Same with your savings accounts.
I would not put this money under a mattress.

Or in gold.

Don't bury it in the yard.

Although.

Up to $250,000 it's safe.

Well, sure.

That's one account.

Yes.

You can also get some of these high-yield savings accounts that have rollover protection that they move your money around to multiple banks. And it can be millions and millions.

My high-yield savings account has millions of dollars in FDSE protection on it. So, okay.
So I guess, but if I just assume that I had some gold buried up here, and I took a one ounce deal out and one ounce of gold and took it and got turned into money, how does a tax man get his cut? When you buy gold? Or when you convert it to money? When I'm turning gold back into currency, at what point in that transaction there, when do I get it initially or what? I don't know the tax ramifications of selling gold and turning it into dollars. Yeah, from your yard.
I don't know, man. Yeah.
My guess would be at some point you'll have to report a commodity sale as income. It's like me going to London and getting some pounds out of my dollars.
You're just converting it. So I don't know.
That's one to Google, Steve, if you can do that. But as far as your safety goes, gold is not going to keep you any safer than having your money in the bank.
Yeah, my guess is on money, if you got money, and then you bought gold with it and buried it in your yard, and then you took that gold out and converted it to cash, you would have probably already been taxed on that money when you got it the first time.

Well, I'll tell you what, I think Germany before World War II, when they hit printing prices, they were printing money all over the place, just because they guaranteed so much of it doesn't mean it's worth anything. That's right.
That's right. But I'll tell you this.
A great friend of mine who is a bank executive said, the best we can do is the next right thing and we can plan. But if we spend our time trying to avoid meteorites, like I don't have a meteorite plan.
If suddenly the United States is not able to ensure its federal deposits and the banking system collapses, the gold that I've buried in my backyard will be worthless because my neighbor is going to come over and try to fight me for my water. And so what happens a lot is these stupid commercials come on these news channels trying to sell you end of time hedges.
And end of time hedges don't work.

The greatest hedge you have against an end of time apocalypse

is to be really closely connected to your friends and neighbors

so that everybody can work together.

I really wish that the government was more responsible

and they didn't put us in a situation where we have to be so concerned about it.

I know.

But the next best thing is we're responsible.

Yes, I wish that.

And it just isn't the case.

They spend money like it's going out of style.

And Steve, I Googled it.

Check this out.

There are reporting requirements for gold sales, and you will likely have capital gains tax if you made money

off of it. You want to get real nerdy?

Form 8949 and Schedule D.

There you go. There's your nerdery

for the day. You're looking to sell some

gold. Well, not how I

expected to end this hour, John, but we did

it. This is...
I love my job.

The Ramsey Show. Hey, you're still here? What are you doing? We'll see you next time.
or just click the link in the show notes to download the app for free. Yep, you heard me right, for free.

Then right there on the home screen, you can watch the rest of today's show.

Bada bing, bada boom.

All right, I'm getting out of here.