Debt Is Never the Problem, It’s Always the Symptom

Speaker 1 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

Speaker 1 George Camill, Ramsey personality, author of the number one best-selling book, Breaking Free from Broke. He is my co-host today, and we're here to help you guys.
Also, check him out on YouTube.

Speaker 1 That show is going to ZoomZoom. Phone number here is 888-825-5225.

Speaker 1 Darlene is in Philadelphia. Hi, Darlene.
How are you?

Speaker 2 Hi, Dave. I'm great.
Thanks for taking my call. I feel blessed today talking to the both of you.

Speaker 1 Well, we're honored to have you. How can we help?

Speaker 2 So I just wanted some financial advice or thoughts. I'm 54.

Speaker 2 I've never been married. I have no children.
I live in a different state than where I grew up.

Speaker 2 And as I'm aging, I'm realizing that I will likely move back to my home state to have that support in aging in about 10 to 11 years when I retire.

Speaker 2 But a job opportunity came up this past fall that I applied for and wasn't expecting to get, but they did offer me the job.

Speaker 2 And I just have some financial concerns about it. Not sure if it's wise for me to move back now.

Speaker 2 So one is the salary.

Speaker 2 And this is through negotiation. They're offering me what I was making last year at my current employer.

Speaker 2 Currently I have a pension. If I leave now,

Speaker 2 I make, right now I make $104,000, almost $105,000,

Speaker 2 but I also, we have a lot of overtime. I work in health care and I'll be making like gross about $11,000 in the overtime this year.

Speaker 2 We have a pension. If I leave now, it'll be about $400 a month as opposed to possibly, like I think I figured out, possibly $1,800 a month.

Speaker 2 So the overtime, they're 403B.

Speaker 2 They don't start matching. I have to be there a full year before they start matching.

Speaker 1 What are they going to pay you?

Speaker 2 What?

Speaker 1 What are they going to pay you, base?

Speaker 2 $1025.

Speaker 1 And where is it?

Speaker 2 It's in upstate New York. It's in Bighamton, New York.

Speaker 3 I'm guessing less expensive than the Philadelphia area that you're in now.

Speaker 1 It really isn't.

Speaker 1 About the same.

Speaker 2 Housing is.

Speaker 2 And I go back frequently because I have an elderly father and my family's there.

Speaker 2 Really, it's not. There's a lot more taxes.
Income tax is going to be more than what I pay here.

Speaker 2 Utilities,

Speaker 2 I was just looking at my dad's utility bill, and they tax a lot compared to what they do here in Pennsylvania.

Speaker 1 Can you afford to live there comfortably?

Speaker 3 Are you debt-free with an emergency fund? This wouldn't really cramp your lifestyle too much?

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 1 The numbers are fairly equal.

Speaker 1 You're not giving me... You're not telling me.

Speaker 3 It's not a 50% pay cap.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's not like 150 versus 100. It's 102 versus 104 versus a little bit of difference in cost of living one way or the other.
A little bit of taxes one way or the other.

Speaker 1 So the question comes down to where does Darlene want to live and where does Darlene want to work?

Speaker 2 Okay, because I was concerned about the pension, losing that money for the pension, as well as the overtime that they don't give.

Speaker 2 Like, I wouldn't make overtime there. They I wouldn't have to work as much.

Speaker 1 Um, but the overtime. What does Darlene want to do?

Speaker 2 Okay,

Speaker 1 no, we really want to be working overtime. What do you want to do?

Speaker 2 You know, I'm used to the money, and I got to be honest, Dave, everything that you speak is how my parents raised us. I mean, it's to a T.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 I just want to make sure I have enough money going.

Speaker 1 Are you nursing?

Speaker 1 Am I what? Are you a nurse?

Speaker 2 I'm in rehab. I'm a speech therapist.

Speaker 1 Okay. So you can pick up side hustles, too, if you wanted to.

Speaker 2 I can,

Speaker 2 but I did side hustles for like 22 years. So I went to the same thing.

Speaker 1 If you're going to do overtime, overtime is called side hustle. It's the same thing.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So if you were up there and you picked up a side gig doing some tutoring, so to speak,

Speaker 1 then

Speaker 1 you could offset the overtime difference. So it really does come down to quality of life because the numbers you're giving me aren't like, whoa! You know,

Speaker 1 there's not a real thing that breaks the camel's back here.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 no straw here.

Speaker 1 And that's what I wanted to.

Speaker 1 to get clear clear because just the pen the thing was the pension and the overtime that and uh okay so here's throwing me off but yeah you're you're you're a very analytical person

Speaker 1 and and i am too um but i i want you to uh just say okay god which of these two things gives me peace

Speaker 2 right

Speaker 1 what causes you to exhale and as deloney says your shoulders drop

Speaker 1 is it staying or is it going and that's but the answer to my question if i'm you what do you think george yeah well i i think there's more than the numbers here that she needs to dig into.

Speaker 3 What is it the fear of just change at 54? Is it going to be

Speaker 3 the grass greener on that side? What if I move and life isn't different? And so that's the stuff you've got to grapple with on top of just doing the budget.

Speaker 3 And I think the numbers are going to work themselves out. It's more of the other pieces that I think she's really concerned about.

Speaker 1 There's no grass that's green up there this time of year on either side. Exactly.

Speaker 3 It's going to be cold either way, Darlene. So just make the move, be closer to family, and you're a hard worker.
You're going to be fine finally.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you're going to be okay. And

Speaker 1 yeah, nothing's set in stone. And by the way, if you don't like it, you can change it.
But yeah,

Speaker 1 I think that's a good idea. You know, it is real smart to look at cost of living because everyone automatically assumes, and she's very wise to have done the research she's done.

Speaker 1 They automatically assume if you're going to a different area that it's going to be a lot more, it's going to be a lot less.

Speaker 1 And sometimes it is, but main factor in that, like as she recognizes, is usually real estate. Oh, yeah.
Usually that's the main difference. I mean, the difference in,

Speaker 1 you know, Los Angeles or San Francisco and, you know, small town USA is, you know, gas prices, little bread and eggs, little housing, a lot. That's the one.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's the one that throws you, and it just changes everything.

Speaker 3 In Tennessee, we have no income tax.

Speaker 3 So people don't realize if you get a job in Tennessee, even of a pay cut, it might be equal comparatively to California or New York, where you have a lot of income taxes.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's those, you know, I was noticing an article this morning:

Speaker 1 a million people have left New York and California. Wow.

Speaker 3 Because we've been covering this since COVID with the migration in the last 12 months. And it just has continued.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's continued.

Speaker 1 And they're landing in income tax-free states.

Speaker 1 Look at that. Texas and Florida are the two primaries, and Tennessee falls in there too.
But they land in income tax-free states, and they land in states that were open during the

Speaker 1 draconian shutdowns. And so freedom issues.
and um so financial and political

Speaker 1 million people have been displaced wow a million

Speaker 1 and uh left those two states and went somewhere else so yeah that does enter into it taxes uh it turns out you can't tax the rich they leave people just peace out i'm gone they leave they have options so much for your theory on that it's a i'm done uh you know load up the u-haul oh wait i'm rich i'll let someone else load up the u-haul that's the real flex yeah that's where I want to be in life.

Speaker 3 No movers ever again. I'm not doing it.
I'm not lifting a finger.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And also, you need to even, somebody said, Dave, you have a pickup.
Do you have those friends that ask you to help them move? And I said, no, they wouldn't be friends. No one's ever touched me.

Speaker 1 I'm taking anybody.

Speaker 3 Saying, Dave, can I borrow the truck?

Speaker 1 You want me to help you move? Do you mean you want me to pay your mover? You want me to help you move? Is that what you're doing?

Speaker 3 I would rather support a GoFundMe for you to get movers than me help you load up that truck.

Speaker 1 Truck doing either one. If you need a GoFundMe to move, you've got other issues.

Speaker 3 Don't ask Dave to borrow his raptor. He will not allow it.
No.

Speaker 1 That's your own raptor. raptor or my 64 year old back either one you can't have either one of them this is the Ramsey show

Speaker 1 well

Speaker 1 I think they call this Cyber Monday

Speaker 1 which I'm learning about because my

Speaker 3 I'm tech savvier day my wife was uh really excited about it so there really is Sharon the online shopper in the family now um

Speaker 1 apparently Wow. Apparently that happened.
So there we go. I love a good deal.
So Cyber Monday one-day sale, prices as low at Ramsey is $4.99.

Speaker 1 Our best-selling hardcover books, assessments like the Total Money Makeover, Building a Non-Axious Life, The Get Clear Assessment, all on sale just for $10?

Speaker 1 Really? The $10 sale? Pretty wild. Cyber Monday's real.
Audiobooks, just $4.99?

Speaker 1 Dad, gum. This is a great sale.
First time ever, George's book, Breaking Free from Broke. Only $12?

Speaker 3 This is a big deal, Dave.

Speaker 1 We launched this in January.

Speaker 1 This is like a real sale.

Speaker 3 It's been $22, and right now it's the cheapest it's ever been, $12.

Speaker 1 This is like real. I'm impressed.
So, I mean, you go from a negative net worth to a millionaire in less than 10 years. You should talk about how to do it in here for $12.
That's good information.

Speaker 1 Man, amazing. All right, ramseysolutions.com slash store.
You can actually buy gifts for people that have meaning, not last year's ugly tie. Come on, people.

Speaker 1 Yeah, listening on YouTube or podcast, click the link, or you can go to ramseysolutions.com backslash store.

Speaker 1 Jared is with us in Oklahoma City. Hi, Jared.
Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 2 Hi, how are you guys doing?

Speaker 1 Better than we deserve, brother. What's up?

Speaker 2 I know that.

Speaker 2 So I'm 23, and I'm saving up to buy a house. And I was looking for guidance because I'm the first time buying, and I have no idea where I'm going.
I've almost got my 20%,

Speaker 1 and that's where I'm at. Good for you.
What do you do for a living?

Speaker 2 I do pest control.

Speaker 1 Good for you.

Speaker 1 Cool. How much have you got saved?

Speaker 2 Killing bugs apparently pays.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 2 I've got

Speaker 2 $26,000, and I'll have the rest of it by mid-January.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 1 What's the rest? That's about four or five grand. Yeah.
Good for you. What do you make?

Speaker 2 $70,000.

Speaker 1 Yeah. You're single, obviously.

Speaker 2 Yes, and I do nothing but work.

Speaker 2 60, 70 hours, sometimes 80 hours a week. Right now, it's grind time.

Speaker 1 Jared is no fun, but he has money. That's funny.
Jared's going to be a homeowner in his early 20s. That's fun.
Way to go, Jared.

Speaker 2 You're doing everything about living like nobody else.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you're doing it.

Speaker 2 All that.

Speaker 2 I'm just working like a dog right now so I can enjoy a little bit of my fruit.

Speaker 1 So you have any debt?

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 1 Good. And you have an emergency fund in addition to this down payment?

Speaker 2 That was going to be my next

Speaker 2 save, roughly my next after I buy it. I was just going to pick up a side.

Speaker 1 No, we'll take some of the money and make it the emergency fund, and then we'll save up the down payment.

Speaker 1 You don't move into a house without an emergency fund because houses are an emergency looking for a place to happen.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Like crap breaks.
Like as soon as you move in. it's like Murphy's Law.

Speaker 1 A repairman at my house today, and it was, and it's brand new.

Speaker 3 They don't make them like they used to.

Speaker 1 Well, I mean, it's just part life. It's just like stuff.
You got the more stuff you have, the more repairman you have to know.

Speaker 3 It's an exposed wooden box. Stuff's going to happen.
So you need the emergency fund, three to six months of expenses.

Speaker 3 So add up what your expenses are for one month, multiply it for a single guy like you. You could lean towards a three to four month mark.
Anything above that becomes your down payment.

Speaker 3 And 20% down is a great goal because you'll avoid pmi which is private mortgage insurance which means you're now looking at march

Speaker 1 okay that's that's reasonable that's still okay yeah it's good you're you're listening dude you're killing it i'm so proud of you way to go who taught you to be this smart

Speaker 2 um

Speaker 2 honestly i honestly nobody okay like i'm just like and it's not like uh a bad thing like i was just i mean kind of you i took your class was in our high school There we go.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 2 I kind of remember. And then

Speaker 2 we had this class called DECA. It's like a, oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 It teaches you how to present.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah. I think Rachel did.
Rachel was in DECA, yeah.

Speaker 2 I was student. I was the president of the class senior year,

Speaker 2 and I went to Nationals. It was supposed to be in Nashville, but COVID hit.

Speaker 2 tragically.

Speaker 2 So I was first in the school.

Speaker 1 Way to go, Jared. Way to go.
So, man, you are doing doing so good. The only thing I would coach you on is to do that.

Speaker 1 What we talked about, let's have the down payment plus the emergency fund, which puts us into March.

Speaker 1 And then when you are getting ready to buy, do not buy a project, something you have to work on all the time.

Speaker 2 No, that's a different one.

Speaker 1 Okay. And do not buy and buy something

Speaker 1 that's easy to resell,

Speaker 1 which means it's kind of boring. It's not like some kind of

Speaker 1 weird.

Speaker 1 Do what?

Speaker 2 My spot, like my price is between like $150 and $200.

Speaker 1 That's a good price range. But when you're spending the money, don't buy something that you look at it and go, oh, I got a good deal because this is weird.

Speaker 1 Because when you get ready to sell it, somebody's going to get a good deal because it's weird.

Speaker 1 And you're going to sell it when you get married because you will find out you bought the wrong house when you find her.

Speaker 1 So that's okay. Go ahead and buy the house, but buy something that you can resell and make money on fairly easily.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 you'll be sitting there at 27 with a big grin on your face, having made a bank on this $150,000 house. It's now $300,000.

Speaker 1 You'll experience that exact same thing.

Speaker 3 Yeah, our first townhome, when you buy in a good area with good schools, you start to look at this stuff. And

Speaker 1 it was a nice place, but in terms of it wasn't like super special. It was nobody's dream.
It wasn't weird.

Speaker 1 It was just like, okay, boom. That's one.

Speaker 3 That's right. Three-bedroom townhome is all it was.

Speaker 1 And yeah, and during the time you owned it, it went up how much?

Speaker 3 Oh, my goodness. I mean, three years we lived there, it went up over 200 grand.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 That's what I told you.

Speaker 3 And we bought it at three. And so you're talking

Speaker 1 almost 100%.

Speaker 1 I just did that. So it went 150 to 300, just like when he's 27 in three years.

Speaker 3 That's amazing. So do it the right way.
You want it to be no more than a quarter of your take-home pay on that mortgage, and make sure you choose a 15-year.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Because you're too young to have a 30-year mortgage sitting around your neck 15-year fixed because a paid-off home mortgage is one of the keys to being a baby steps millionaire Caden is in Greenville South Carolina hey Caden what's up

Speaker 2 hey hey Dave how are you doing today better than I deserve how can I help

Speaker 2 so I just wanted to come on and just ask a quick question you know I took your class last year with a Sunday school class

Speaker 2 But I am a recent graduate from Clemson. I just graduated in May.

Speaker 3 Congratulations.

Speaker 2 Thank you, sir. And I wound up

Speaker 2 in a pretty good situation financially

Speaker 2 with my present work.

Speaker 2 But I'm pursuing medical school

Speaker 2 in the near future.

Speaker 2 I'm looking at possibly starting in about two years from right now.

Speaker 2 But I'm just wondering,

Speaker 2 how is the best way to save up for something of that magnitude?

Speaker 1 Aggressively.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 I mean, how much are you making? You said a good situation. What'd you land in?

Speaker 2 I'm making about $60,000 salary. And then

Speaker 2 but I think

Speaker 2 when overtime comes, which is I'll get salary in overtime,

Speaker 2 I could easily, you know, working we're working extra hours, probably wind up in the 70 to 80 range.

Speaker 1 Good. Okay.
And just live like a college student and bank all of it, right?

Speaker 2 Yes. So would it be best to try to knock that down, like pay off all of that or take out a lo take out a, you know,

Speaker 2 a loan for the four years of medical school.

Speaker 1 Caden, you went through our class.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 You never heard me ever tell somebody to borrow money, have you?

Speaker 1 No, sir. Probably not going to start today, brother.

Speaker 3 Dang, that would have been amazing, though. Caden was the first one ever.

Speaker 1 Dave said, all right, I'll make it. Yeah, I want you to save like a maniac, and I want you to go to a medical school that you can afford.

Speaker 1 And I've got a feeling you're going to be almost ready to pay cash for it if you watch what you're doing. Now, the problem with medical school is people get so excited when they get accepted.

Speaker 1 And sometimes they get accepted to a place they can't afford.

Speaker 1 And very few times do you go to your doctor and go, wait a minute, Doc, before we do the exam, where'd you go to school?

Speaker 1 No one asks. All they ask is, do you have that MD?

Speaker 3 If there's a frame on the wall, I go, all right, I'm good.

Speaker 1 I'm assuming to start with that you have a clue. An MD.
Do your research. That's what you're after.

Speaker 1 so find out what these schools cost and choose an affordable one it's a big difference out there huge spectrum it's mind-blowing what some of these places charge like all college for that matter and what some of them don't charge this is the ramsey show

Speaker 3 for free tools and resources to help you reach your home goals go to ramseysolutions.com slash real estate or click the link in the show notes

Speaker 1 George Campbell, Ramsey personality number one best-selling author is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225.
Lauren is in St. Paul.
Hi, Lauren. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 2 Well, hello, Dave. How are you today?

Speaker 1 Better than I deserve. What's up?

Speaker 2 Okay, I have a question regarding long-term health care insurance.

Speaker 2 My husband and I, back when we were married, bought whole life

Speaker 2 insurance policies because that's what our parents did for us. So we changed them over on on.
Our financial advisor is suggesting that we cash those in and invest in a long-term care insurance

Speaker 2 for nursing home and that in the future. Just wondering what your thoughts are on that situation.

Speaker 1 Well, cashing the whole life in is a no-brainer, assuming you have enough life insurance to take care of you. What's your all's net worth?

Speaker 2 Right now, about $600,000.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 And how old are you guys

Speaker 1 um we are sixty two and sixty four okay if he dies with no life insurance are you okay

Speaker 2 uh yes yes

Speaker 1 no i i mean financially

Speaker 2 yes yes i would be fine yes because he that does not include what his um um so he he is he's a minister and he would get like a retirement through through there also um that survives that survives him

Speaker 2 yes Yeah.

Speaker 2 He cannot collect that till he's 67 and a half.

Speaker 1 But you can collect it if he dies.

Speaker 2 Yes, I can. Okay.

Speaker 1 All right. So you're okay to eat.
You don't need life insurance. So dropping the whole life is a no-brainer.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Right. Now,

Speaker 1 long-term care insurance,

Speaker 1 what you want to do there is you want to shop it among several different companies.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 And basically

Speaker 1 try to get the best deal, in other words.

Speaker 1 And so I don't know what's your financial advisor. If they're selling only for one company, that's a problem.

Speaker 1 Do they sell only for one company?

Speaker 2 No, she suggested several different ones. Good, okay.

Speaker 1 Here's what you get today. You get three years of coverage, and that will cover 90-some-odd percent of the cases.
Very few people live three years once they get to a nursing home statistically.

Speaker 1 It's 2.8 years

Speaker 1 on average.

Speaker 1 What normally happens is mom and dad go along like you guys have, and you've got a good nest egg here, and 75% of you ladies outlive their husbands.

Speaker 1 I don't know exactly what's going on there, but we'll talk about that later.

Speaker 1 And so,

Speaker 1 Papa goes into a nursing home, burns up $300,000 or $400,000 because it's $100,000, $100,000 and something thousand dollars a year. And if he's there three years, it's $300,000 of your $600,000,

Speaker 1 and then dies and leaves Mama with the nest egg having been scrambled

Speaker 1 and fried. So I think you guys are a real candidate for nursing home insurance.
The three years of coverage that you probably can buy and it's fairly reasonable if you shop around

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 you want to, you know, the other look for a feature that has in-home care as well.

Speaker 1 because it's sometimes cheaper and some and oftentimes a better quality of life to have have in-home care.

Speaker 1 And so, yeah, I think you're getting good advice.

Speaker 3 Okay. No red flags here.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 What our concern was it would swing us up to

Speaker 2 quite a big payout every month for this insurance. And so just, you know,

Speaker 1 how much are they quoting you?

Speaker 2 $679 a month for both. That would be two $200,000 life insurance or long-term care

Speaker 1 policies. Yeah, and how much are you getting out of the whole life policies?

Speaker 2 What are they valued at right now?

Speaker 1 Yeah, what's your cash value you're going to get when you close them?

Speaker 2 Between the two of us, around

Speaker 2 $52,000.

Speaker 1 Yeah, so it pays for it.

Speaker 3 But the cost seems very reasonable. I mean, I'm seeing the stat here in 2023.
Average 60-year-old man paid $1,200 per year

Speaker 3 for a level policy.

Speaker 1 I don't hear anything that your financial advisor is saying that's like shooting rockets off wrong. It's all correct.

Speaker 1 The only thing you need to do is get down in the details and understand it and get comfortable with it.

Speaker 1 You're going to use some of that 50 grand to offset your first year of costs to move that in, maybe some of the second year. And

Speaker 1 then you've got to decide how far out you want to stretch this. Now, you are 64.
If you don't touch the 600,

Speaker 1 by the time you're 71, you will drop the long term because you'll have a million two to a million five.

Speaker 3 You can stomach the risk at that point. Exactly.
That's the point of insurance. It'll transfer risk to the insurance company instead of you.

Speaker 3 And right now, you guys couldn't stomach that with your net worth to take a $300,000 hit.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So, George, it suddenly occurred to me.
I've told people all these years, don't buy long-term care insurance until you're 60.

Speaker 1 And I really haven't talked a lot about if you build substantial wealth that you self-insure until I just woke up and went, daddy, I'm 64.

Speaker 1 So what happens if Sharon or I are in a situation where we're incapacitated? Well, I get, you know, we've got money. And so I don't mean that in a bragging way, but you know what I'm going to do?

Speaker 1 Get like a bed that lets up and down and hire somebody to live there and take care of one of us.

Speaker 3 He's not leaving.

Speaker 1 You think I'm, no, we're, you know.

Speaker 3 You don't want to play bingo?

Speaker 3 You can do that at home.

Speaker 1 Yeah, online or something. But yeah, no, I mean, it's just.

Speaker 1 I can hire a dadgum medical butler and not think anything about it, you know, full-time. Put them in the house, take care of us or her or me or whoever it is.
And the other one,

Speaker 1 create the same exact environment, but better in your own home because you got the money to do it. You're self-insured.
And I just determined, that's what we'll do.

Speaker 1 So we're not a candidate for a nursing home under any circumstances I can think of. I mean, I guess there'd be some extreme thing, maybe.

Speaker 1 But,

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 1 at this moment in time, financially, we don't need to do that.

Speaker 3 Well, think about the cost, $350,000. So think about that as part of your net worth as the listener.
If you can stomach that from your nest egg without it affecting your life, you could self-insure.

Speaker 1 That's your average. That's the average.
With the average stay, which means that some people don't make it that long and some make it longer, right? And so,

Speaker 1 you know, you've got early onset and good health. You could be there 10 years.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I'm seeing the stat here. 20% will need it for more than five years.
Okay. So one in five people will have a longer stay.
But like you said, most people, it's, you know, two years.

Speaker 1 Average is 2.8. Yeah.
So good.

Speaker 1 Christine, Christiana, Christina, Christina is in San Francisco. Hi, Christina.
How are you?

Speaker 2 Hi, Dave. I'm pretty good.
How are you?

Speaker 1 Better than I deserve. What's up?

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 I'm a disabled veteran. I got my disability in 2020, and I got a sizable check and wanted to buy a house with that.

Speaker 2 And I make about $4,200 a month on the disability, which is very good.

Speaker 2 So I ended up just buying a piece of land because the whole process of trying to find a good real estate agent didn't work out well.

Speaker 2 And then I waited to build. And then here I am four years later, and I have not built a house yet.
There's no utilities on the property yet. I'm living in my travel trailer on the property legally,

Speaker 2 but I still don't have a house and

Speaker 2 we're trying to work through the process. My dad is now helping me.
I cannot afford really to build on my own. I need him to help me.
I need a co-signer.

Speaker 1 Then you can't afford to build.

Speaker 2 And yeah, I can't afford to build.

Speaker 1 You bet off more than you can chew though.

Speaker 2 Pretty much.

Speaker 2 And so the property, it's in a city. You know, it's a half acre.

Speaker 2 So it's a great size.

Speaker 2 i bought it for 250 with 25 down which was required by the lender so i now i only owe about uh 160 000 on it and it's worth 265 or it's it's assessed by the county at 265 oh it's worth then it's worth 365 or 400 yeah it's probably it would probably sell for more than i bought it for oh i think so

Speaker 3 You need to sell it and buy something you can afford. There's no point in keeping it.

Speaker 1 I mean, if you can't do it without a cosigner, you don't need to be be doing it.

Speaker 1 You're going to get yourself and your dad in a pinch, okay?

Speaker 1 I wouldn't do that.

Speaker 2 Well, but yeah, the concern is that right now I'm paying about a quarter of my monthly income for just the land loan.

Speaker 1 Yeah, so sell the land.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And go buy something you can afford.
You can't afford to build on it, huh? That's what you told me. And I don't want you to do that.

Speaker 1 I appreciate you serving your country, and I don't want you to get handcuffed to a bad deal. And I don't want your dad handcuffed to a bad deal.
Let's don't do this.

Speaker 1 George Camille Ramsey personality is my co-host today. The Ramsey question of the day is brought to you by YReFi.

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Speaker 3 Today's question comes from Glenn in New York. Should I change my investing strategy? I'm 50 years old and debt-free with an emergency fund.

Speaker 3 I currently put 10% in Roth IRA and another 5% in my 401k from work. Should I contribute more to my 401k to max it out or get with a financial advisor and start investing in individual mutual funds?

Speaker 3 Currently, I have around 600 grand in my 401k, and the Roth has about 20K.

Speaker 3 All right, so we're debt-free. We're 50, that's good.
We're investing 15%. So the question is, does he have a mortgage and is the house paid off?

Speaker 3 If so, I would continue to invest more and max out those accounts

Speaker 3 before working with the individual mutual funds outside of retirement.

Speaker 1 Yeah, if you're in baby step seven, meaning and your house is paid off, we don't use the 15% rule. We say max out all available retirement accounts.

Speaker 1 Everything you can put in a 401k, everything you can put in the Roth. If your company has a Roth 401k instead of a traditional 401k, I would shift to that too.

Speaker 1 That would be my plan. But I'm with you, George.
If your home is not paid off, then you need to be working to pay off your home and leave this at 15%.

Speaker 1 You're fine. You're in good shape, dude.
I mean, when you are 57, you're going to have a million too if you don't add anything to it.

Speaker 1 When you are 64, you're going to have 2.4

Speaker 1 if you don't add anything to it.

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 1 you know, if you're invested in good mutual funds, it sounds like you are. It sounds like you're doing the right things here all the way around.

Speaker 1 But no, I don't think you need to move to individual mutual funds. The only reason you would move some to that is if you were going to quit work before 59 and a half.
I don't see that happening here.

Speaker 1 I didn't hear anything in this email that made me think that was going to occur.

Speaker 1 If that's the case, you would need to do what we call bridge investing, which is have some money that's not in a retirement account that you can get to before 59.5 to have something to eat with.

Speaker 1 That's always a nice plan, too. So that eating thing is good.

Speaker 1 So, yeah, I mean, that's

Speaker 1 it. And, George, that's the second time in this hour we've used that.
So, here's a little quick lesson, boys and girls.

Speaker 1 There's a thing called a math anomaly called the rule of 72s.

Speaker 1 And if you take an interest rate or a growth rate on your mutual fund, divide it into the number 72, it will tell you how long it takes a lump sum to double.

Speaker 1 Okay?

Speaker 1 And so if you're making 10% on your mutual funds, average into 72 is 7.2 years to double.

Speaker 1 And so that's what I just did. I'm assuming he's going to be making at least that.
If he's 50, at 57, he would have not 600, but 1.2. At 64, seven more years, he would have 2.4.

Speaker 1 And we could go all the way to 71 and have him sitting there at almost $5 million.

Speaker 3 Trevor Burrus, Jr.: And this played out in real life, Dave. I went back and looked at the actual stats.

Speaker 3 Under Trump's presidency, the first term, three and a half years in, the stock market was up 53%.

Speaker 3 Under Biden, three and a half years in, it was up 50%.

Speaker 3 So 103% return in exactly seven years. Exactly what you say.
The stock market doubled in those seven years.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and that's about what it'll do.

Speaker 3 So this is not just an opinion or a math formula. It plays out in reality.

Speaker 1 And that's the averages.

Speaker 1 I mean, you know, and so we don't know what's going to happen from here exactly, but that's, that's, you know, that's a good thing to kind of coach yourself along and go, I think I'm going to be okay.

Speaker 1 The key is to be invested. Raj is in San Francisco.
Hey, Raj, what's up?

Speaker 2 Hi, how are you doing?

Speaker 2 First time caller, longtime listener, glad to be on the show.

Speaker 1 Well, thank you. How can we help?

Speaker 2 Okay, so I I'm a tax professional. I'm an enrolled agent.

Speaker 2 Recently on the news, I've been hearing that in order to reduce government inefficiencies

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 the Trump and team might remove income taxes and replace them with tariffs. That's all good.

Speaker 2 You know, that's okay. But for a tax professional, how would I I'm 33 years old, I have like about five years experience in the field.

Speaker 1 How would I facilitate a career change uh if if that were to happen i don't think it might happen but you know um just in case it does well you figure out what your talents and passions were that drew you into this in the first place so i'm guessing i'm guessing you're like me you're a bit of a math nerd you're quick with details uh your mind grasps uh decision-making flow charts on things like taxes and so you know that tells me you need to move towards accounting

Speaker 1 yeah um yeah maybe some other uh things in accounting that are not taxes like maybe audit exactly exactly and you know something in private accounting yeah and or finance of all kinds and so your mind naturally goes there and you know what i i'm with you i don't see this as a high probability in the near future uh there could be a trend in that direction it could take a while uh the chances on you know three days after he is sworn in that you don't have a job are zero so you're okay we don't have to worry about this today um

Speaker 1 but what it got what it does do it's interesting for you personally is it kind of gives you that wake-up call to go hey

Speaker 1 maybe i want to do something with my life that's more than just taxes

Speaker 1 maybe i want to broaden my horizons

Speaker 2 yeah i've been in the field and um my the whole time i've been in the field i was thinking that there's only two things that are true is death and taxes well now we know one of them might not be true well it might be true it'll just take a different form

Speaker 1 And so the, but again,

Speaker 1 the talents that you have, the way your mind works easily for you and hard for others, it takes you towards detail and towards finance and accounting.

Speaker 1 And so, you know, you might sit for your CPA, dude.

Speaker 1 You might move, might go ahead and this is just a thing that says, hey, time for me to take the next step in my career, regardless of Trump, regardless of what they do.

Speaker 1 We're not going to sit and wait around in the White House to fix or destroy our lives, either one. We're just going to go up with our lives.
What's the right thing to do?

Speaker 1 And so maybe this is just God giving you a little nudge.

Speaker 3 Say you need to get some education, some skills, and maybe expand the horizons a bit.

Speaker 1 I would. I think it'd be good for your practice anyway.
Because right now you've got a very seasonal thing that you work like a maniac, and then you're off the rest of the year, basically. I mean, 90%

Speaker 1 down.

Speaker 1 And so it's not like September's big in the tax prep business, you know? So,

Speaker 1 you know, we do a little work around this time of year in the tax prep business because people are getting ready for year-end stuff, especially small business people.

Speaker 1 Those kinds of things are some moves you can make right now. You need to check with your tax pro right now, baby.

Speaker 1 But by and large, you know, you got this sprint in the first quarter. takes you down to April 15 or so and may spill over into May with some late filings and stuff.

Speaker 1 But after that, you're just kind of out. So I'd be looking for something to supplement anyway.

Speaker 3 Absolutely. And maybe find a niche.
You might find you like working with a certain type of client, and that might be your specialty that you dive into.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we've got tax ELPs, people that we endorse to do taxes, endorse local providers, thousands of them all across America. And we are not advising them to prepare for their business to end.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I'd turn off the news if you're getting paralyzed by that.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 again, I have no idea

Speaker 1 any more than anybody else what the new president's going to do.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 it's going to be a bit. It's going to be a bit.

Speaker 1 Things move slower than that. I don't think you're going to get a call one day and go, whoop, there's no income tax.

Speaker 1 Although on a personal note, it wouldn't piss me off at all if there was just suddenly no income tax. I'd be going, oh, wow.

Speaker 1 You mean all the things that the money that I make helping people, I get to keep the money that I made. That's right.
And it's not simple taxed. Instead of sending it to you people.

Speaker 3 Have you ever thought about that, though? When you get, you're taxed on your income, you then use that money, it's taxed again.

Speaker 3 And then the person who gets that money pays taxes on the money they get as the business owners. It just keeps going.

Speaker 1 And then when you die, they tax you again.

Speaker 3 The death tax on your estate. So it's just an endless taxation of the dollar.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's just, yeah. I have thought about it.

Speaker 3 Am I turning into a boomer?

Speaker 1 You are. You've been sitting next to one for too long, and

Speaker 1 the spirit of rage is leaving my body and moving into your oh no soon i'll be yelling at kids to get off my lawn yeah that happened to me this week actually but oh well it was your grandkids dave it's different no it was no my neighbor yelled at me to get off his lawn but yeah

Speaker 1 uh there you go a bold move yeah bold move he was sort of kidding maybe

Speaker 1 this is the ramsey show

Speaker 1 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual, amazing relationships.

Speaker 1 George Camill, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author of the book Breaking Free from Broke, on sale on Cyber Monday right now at Ramsey Solutions.com. He's my co-host.

Speaker 1 Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Speaker 1 Ann is in Phoenix. Hi, Anne.
Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Hi.

Speaker 1 Hi.

Speaker 1 What's up?

Speaker 2 So my question is,

Speaker 2 is it worth dipping into our emergency fund while we fight insurance to make sure I'm okay medically?

Speaker 2 A little more into that. They think I'm having an ectopic pregnancy.
And my husband's all for dipping into the emergency fund because he's already done the math. He's 20 steps ahead.

Speaker 2 And instead of fighting insurance, he would rather just make sure I'm okay literally Thursday and then fighting insurance for a month and I have to go in for emergency surgery

Speaker 1 Well, I think your husband is 100% right.

Speaker 3 It sounds like an emergency to me. It's urgent, it's necessary, and it's unexpected.
Yeah, checks the boxes.

Speaker 1 What are you, a Navy SEAL? You don't think you need to do this? I mean, no, you need to take care of yourself, girl.

Speaker 2 To me, it's the insurance's insurance's problem. Like, we have, he's military.

Speaker 1 I think it's your problem. You're sick.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay. I think you fight with them.
I would argue with them up and down, and I would go all,

Speaker 1 you know, I'd go all in right now and be tearing their freaking heads off.

Speaker 1 But at the end of the day, they've been doing that for about two weeks.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And now

Speaker 1 at the same point. Yeah, don't stop.

Speaker 1 Just keep doing it up until the day of. But yeah, you need to go and take care of yourself.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 Sounds like your husband's worried about you.

Speaker 2 Yes, he is. He's very worried.

Speaker 3 Okay. What's the cost out of pocket?

Speaker 2 It would be initially just for the ultrasound. It's $500.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I had a really bad spending habit. I loved shopping.
I'd get it from every female I'm related to. So spending money now feels like

Speaker 2 a heart attack in my life.

Speaker 1 Oh, because you've overcome

Speaker 1 impulsive shopping well listen an ultrasound when you're having a baby is not impulse

Speaker 1 okay now I would do this I will tell you that if you will shop around the wonderful town of Phoenix you will find that you can probably get that ultrasound done for 250

Speaker 1 yeah there's lots of places do ultrasounds and their price range again if you say no insurance cash when I walk in What's your best deal?

Speaker 1 Like, I want a coupon. Like, you're a shopper.
Okay. Okay.
You're going to find that we find this all the time.

Speaker 1 I've actually advertised for a few ultrasound places over the years in certain cities and not one in Phoenix and not lately, so I don't know the name of it. But I remember this concept.

Speaker 1 They came to us and go, oh, the reason everybody charges 500 or 600 bucks is because insurance will pay it. But if you walk in there with cash, you can get it for 200.

Speaker 1 And that's what that company told us that does ultrasound.

Speaker 1 And they advertised that for a while to try to steal business from the insurance ultrasound people or whatever. But yeah, shop around, get a better deal, but take care of yourself, kiddo.

Speaker 1 Okay. Husband's right.
You're worth it. By the way,

Speaker 1 give him a good hug. He's a good man.

Speaker 1 Okay. Showing up on the scene, taking care of his wife.
Salute. Yes.

Speaker 2 He's a fantastic husband.

Speaker 1 Yes, he is.

Speaker 3 They're out there. There's also an app.

Speaker 1 They're all taken, but they're out there. There's an app called.
Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 3 There's an app called Billy Dave. They're not a sponsor of ours, but they have this cool app where it shows transparent pricing for procedures.
So you can type in the CPT code.

Speaker 3 It'll tell you in your area what the cheapest facility is for that specific procedure. It's pretty cool.
So it might be something you can check out as she does her research.

Speaker 3 I've never tried it personally, but I've heard good things. So it might be an option to at least know you're not getting screwed.

Speaker 1 See,

Speaker 1 I have a concept, and George has an actual concept.

Speaker 3 There's an app for that, Dave.

Speaker 1 George has always got a technical hack for my good concept. I've got about 400.
I didn't even know that. That's so cool.
Why do you go, George? Yeah. Billy.
We've talked about it.

Speaker 1 What is it named named after? Billy Goat. I don't know.

Speaker 3 I don't know if it's Billy as in the bill, like the medical bills.

Speaker 1 Oh, it is.

Speaker 3 That's what it is. I don't know.
Billy Goat. We'll find out.
But Billy Goat.

Speaker 3 I'm all about transparency because I'm the one who hates getting screwed, who feeling like I overpaid for something. So just to know.

Speaker 3 I'm not getting screwed and this is actually a good deal makes me sleep better at night.

Speaker 1 I've been paying cash for medical stuff for a long time out of pocket. And all you got to do is just go, hey, I'm paying cash.
It's not insurance. And most of the time, it's not.

Speaker 3 Discount. Yeah.

Speaker 3 I used to work at a doctor's office when I was 14 years old as the receptionist, and if they were cash paid.

Speaker 1 Oh, wait a minute.

Speaker 3 Yes, can you imagine walking in and seeing me?

Speaker 1 George, how tall were you at 14? About the same as you see over the desk?

Speaker 3 I maxed out at five and a half.

Speaker 1 That was it. You were the receptionist.
I had to lean up on the doctor's office. And I sat on a pillow.
14. That's right.

Speaker 1 Things I learned while I'm on the air in front of millions of people about George.

Speaker 3 That was my first real job, Dave, $12 an hour.

Speaker 1 Wow. You can pay big money back then.

Speaker 3 That was good money back then for a 15-year-old.

Speaker 1 Are you kidding me? Well, I mean, they were seriously overpaying you.

Speaker 3 But I remember we'd get the bills for the procedures, and if they were a cash pay, the doctor would have me note it, and it would be a severely discounted rate.

Speaker 1 You got that at 14.

Speaker 3 At 14, I figured that out.

Speaker 1 This is how George ends up with a book called Breaking Free from Broke. That's what he knows about Billy, and he knows about

Speaker 1 to save my life, but I know a CPT old George learns the hack for the medical system.

Speaker 3 Wow. Not on your bingo card.

Speaker 1 I did not see that coming today.

Speaker 1 George, answering.

Speaker 3 I am a Renaissance man, Dave.

Speaker 1 You answered the phone. Did you have a little headset?

Speaker 3 No, I mean, it was, you know, people walking up. It was more in person.
I'd answered the phones, which I was really good at.

Speaker 1 So, I mean, seriously, folks, and babies are one of the things that we've discovered this with the most.

Speaker 1 And this was all the way back from the early days doing the show before healthcare was what it is now, good or bad, whatever you want to call it.

Speaker 1 But in those days, sometimes people did not have labor and delivery coverage on their health system, on their health plan.

Speaker 1 And what we learned was if you go to the hospital to have a baby, it's one of the few times that people want to go to the hospital. It's a good thing to go to the hospital.

Speaker 1 Most of the other times you're at the hospital, it's a bad thing, right? And so labor and delivery is like good PR for hospitals.

Speaker 1 So if for some reason you find yourself not covered, go to the hospital in the first trimester and say, I'm going to choose a hospital based on the deal that you give me for labor and delivery, and I'm going to pay cash, and I will pay 50% of it up front before we get here, and the other 50% on the day we arrive.

Speaker 1 So you will not be trying to collect, and it's cash on the barrel head, and you will see a 50 to a 70% reduction. And that's what we normally see from hospitals.

Speaker 1 Again, because they really like babies to come to their place because it's the time that people come to the hospital everyone involved the visitors are smiling the participant is smiling everybody right and so families all visiting there yeah it's a good thing so you know take keep in mind they this is business they want in other words and so

Speaker 1 and you know you're a cash buyer you don't have insurance this is how it's going to be they they don't have to chase you for the money they got the money up front good they like that seriously

Speaker 1 that works in a lot of stuff out there, ladies and gentlemen. But yes, if you are pregnant and you're having trouble with your pregnancy, that is by definition an emergency.

Speaker 1 If you need to use some of your emergency fund, that's what it's for. This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 George Campbell Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Speaker 1 DJ is with us in Austin, Texas. Hi, DJ.
How are you?

Speaker 2 Hi, Hi, Dave. Thanks for the call.

Speaker 1 Sure. What's up?

Speaker 2 Ironically,

Speaker 2 I'm a longtime listener, all right, and didn't know it, but

Speaker 2 I

Speaker 2 followed the steps and have,

Speaker 2 without formal introduction to those steps, all right, I didn't realize

Speaker 1 that I was.

Speaker 1 I guess,

Speaker 2 because by accident, as I look back on it, all right, geez, I said, I've been doing exactly what you're talking about and what you outlined. Great, great advice.

Speaker 1 I agree with

Speaker 2 90%, 95% of everything you said.

Speaker 2 Cash is king.

Speaker 2 My question is, once we get to

Speaker 2 your level or we get to the level that you would think is the top,

Speaker 2 what's your thoughts on maintaining that? Whole lot harder, all right, to compound at this level than it was to get here

Speaker 2 and and I'm just I'm just amazed at what's going on in our world today and and

Speaker 2 the leaks and and the shots that everybody's taking to take it away from you

Speaker 1 okay

Speaker 1 well the the hard thing is not the actual compounding because

Speaker 1 A million dollars invested in mutual funds does the exact same that 10 million does, does the exact same that 100 million does. It's the exact same compounding.

Speaker 1 A million dollars invested in good real estate does the exact same thing $100 million does in good real estate. So the compounding is not the problem.

Speaker 1 The problem is a stinking taxation and estate planning. And

Speaker 1 maintaining your sanity as you manage more and more assets

Speaker 1 in terms of not letting it drive you bonkers because the more stuff you own, the more repairmen you have to know, kind of thing.

Speaker 1 And so

Speaker 1 maintaining your, actually getting peace from it rather than anxiety from it. You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 1 Yes, sir. I know very much what you're saying.
So the spiritual aspect of it is

Speaker 1 more challenging. The tax and estate planning is more challenging.

Speaker 1 And because, as you said, more people taking shots at it. And really, risk management becomes a thing because,

Speaker 1 you know, all of a sudden somebody wants to just sue you because they got a hangnail and

Speaker 1 they think it's easy money so you got to have risk management so those are things that come that I've noticed have come into play

Speaker 1 and I think you just manage those things as if they're individual sciences that's what I've done I've said okay risk management here's what we're going to do we're going to study that I'm going to learn about you know how to how to split up the pie into small enough pieces that it doesn't have a big target on it and it doesn't it's not as attractive to everyone to sue.

Speaker 1 I'm also going to not settle with anyone I'm going to destroy them if they come after me and try to get easy money I'm going to make an example out of them and their jackleg ambulance chasing attorney and I've done that

Speaker 1 I'm going to I mean I just set some policies in place

Speaker 1 and said, okay, here's what we're going to do. And obviously we buy insurance and obviously I don't own anything anymore.

Speaker 1 Everything's in some kind of a trust or an LLC or a C Corp or S Corp, one of the two. And then estate planning.

Speaker 1 I've spent a couple of hundred grand over the last 20 years on estate planning, maybe more, to save 20 or 30 million in estate taxes.

Speaker 1 And then the same thing on income tax, which is just an ongoing thing. So, I mean, all I've done is I've just had to get better at those things as the size has gotten better.

Speaker 1 But the compounding is really not having any trouble with the money making money. It's kind of bizarre.

Speaker 3 Well, when you don't have debt attached to it, all that real estate cash flow is way better.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Yeah. And if you just leave the investments alone, it'll grow.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And so it's just, it's, it's one of the things that comes with the, you know, I'm a Christian, a person of faith, and so I believe I'm not the owner.
I'm managing it for God.

Speaker 1 And so if God asks me to manage something larger and more sophisticated, then I have to grow my skills,

Speaker 1 including the size of my backbone to handle whatever anxiety

Speaker 1 comes with. Well, and to fight, if I need to fight, including

Speaker 1 just growing my brain about some of these subjects that I didn't know before and that kind of thing.

Speaker 1 It's part of becoming a manager of, you know, if you're going to manage, you know, one restaurant, it's different than managing 500 restaurants. It's a different skill set, you know.

Speaker 1 And so even if you're a manager and you're not the owner, you're working for someone else, which is how I view it.

Speaker 1 Also, by the way, DJ, I'll just throw out, again, my faith journey with that has really, really kept me from

Speaker 1 most of the time from being stressed out about this stuff. Because I just go, God, you got a problem.

Speaker 1 You have a problem. I'm the manager.
What do you want to do with your thing over here?

Speaker 1 They got this situation, you know, and in prayer, I just say, okay, Lord, what do you want to do with your deal here? And sometimes he says, you want to fix that for me, God?

Speaker 1 Because I don't know what I'm supposed to do here. And it's your thing.
So what do you say? It's not all on your shoulders. Just call the owner and go, the heat and air is out.

Speaker 1 The renter called and said the heat and air is out. Call the owner.
And so I call the owner sometimes and I remember it. I'm not God.

Speaker 1 I don't have to have all the answers. I'm not perfect.
I'm going to just do the best I can do with the next right step.

Speaker 1 And that's released me from a large percentage of the stress that a lot of people feel in those situations where your wealth has come.

Speaker 3 You feel like you could just screw it up overnight.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I'm not going to screw it up overnight because I'm not going to make one single thing that blows the whole thing up.

Speaker 1 I'm not I'm I'm not doing anything that's that reactionary or that um risk I'm not that I'm too risk averse to do that. But um

Speaker 1 yeah, it it's just it's interesting. So good stuff.
All right, Jennifer is in Portland, Maine. Hi, Jennifer.
How are you?

Speaker 2 I'm doing great. Thank you so much for taking my call, Dave.
I've been following you for about twenty years. And when I first heard you, I became debt-free and we moved to Maine.

Speaker 2 We paid off our home in 10 years, and it's given us financial freedom. So, thank you.

Speaker 1 Well, thank you.

Speaker 2 The reason I'm calling is: I have an older cousin. I'm her only living relative.
She has left everything in her will to me.

Speaker 2 She has a home that's paid for that's worth about $150,000.

Speaker 2 She has a $30,000 HELOC on there that's variable. She owes back taxes for last year of $4,300 and she's going to owe another $4,300 come due in January.

Speaker 2 She has $30,000 worth of unpaid credit cards that she stopped paying on about three years ago.

Speaker 2 She did have, somebody convinced her to lease a Jeep. And she paid that off, but then she went back to them and took a really high interest loan out.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 we're just kind of sitting here wondering what we should do if she lost this home. She'd have nowhere to go.
She's got bad credit and no money.

Speaker 1 How old is she?

Speaker 2 77. And she's not in overly the best of health.

Speaker 2 She does have an income of $3,500 a month that we've been trying to convince her to budget all these the last three years. Yeah.
And

Speaker 2 she has not done anything really to help herself.

Speaker 1 Right. So

Speaker 1 that's her problem then.

Speaker 2 Well, we're wondering,

Speaker 2 would it behoove us to pay the taxes and the HELOC off knowing that?

Speaker 1 Knowing that she's going to go borrow it again in summer?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I don't know. I would hope to be able to do that.

Speaker 1 Well, this woman has a track record that's abysmal.

Speaker 1 It's like every time something gets cleaned up, she messes it up again.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 1 I don't want to be a part of that.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 1 okay, so you pay off the HELOC and then the Jeep gets repoed and they sue her, and so she goes and takes out another HELOC to pay the lawsuit.

Speaker 1 That's what's coming.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I hate to say it, but I don't think she's... smart enough to realize she could even do that.

Speaker 1 She's smart enough to get the HELOC the first time?

Speaker 2 Well, her husband, who is deceased,

Speaker 1 did he do the Jeep? No. Did he run up the credit cards? No.

Speaker 3 I wouldn't do this, Jennifer. Jennifer.

Speaker 1 Okay. You're throwing good money after bad.
I would coach her. I would love her.
I would be cheering for her. I would write zero checks.

Speaker 3 And the estate will pay off her debts and whatever's left. If there is anything, you'll get it.

Speaker 1 I doubt there will be.

Speaker 1 I wouldn't have any expectation there. No.
No. I think she needs to.
I would scare the P. Wadden out of her.

Speaker 1 George Camille Ramsey personality is my co-host. It is that time of year.

Speaker 1 In a few weeks, we're going to be doing your all's favorite show here on the Ramsey Show, The Giving Show, where we hear from people who have received gifts that were life-changing or given gifts that were life-changing.

Speaker 1 And for three hours, we talk about that. to inspire you to live like no one else so later you can live and give like no one else.

Speaker 1 So we need to hear from you if you want to be part of that show and share your story of giving or receiving. That'll make our eyes leak and inspire people.
I love it.

Speaker 1 Go to ramseysolutions.com/slash ask.

Speaker 1 Put giving in the subject line. Leave us a little bit about your story.
Team will get with you and set you up to be part of that program.

Speaker 1 It's going to be on December the 18th, so you need to get your submissions in now. We do want to hear your story.
Please go to ramseysolutions.com/slash ask.

Speaker 1 Put giving in the subject line Brady is in Houston hi Brady how are you

Speaker 2 I'm good how are you Gordon hey David good how can we help

Speaker 2 hey I appreciate it so me and my wife have come to the

Speaker 2 agreement that my current position as a my am I'm a business owner and it's not likely to get us to the goals that we've achieved, that we've set that we want to end up in our lives. And

Speaker 2 my question to you is my wife is not willing to move away to find the right job that does that she wants to stay close to her family she's very close with them they're close with her and i'm close with them as well but i'm more willing to go out and find that job uh you know far away from here if it's if that's what it is and she's uh very resilient to making that change and uh there's not much job offers nearby where we live but there are

Speaker 2 hour and a half away from here.

Speaker 1 So how

Speaker 1 do you communicate that?

Speaker 2 I'm in Brenham,

Speaker 2 about an hour and a half outside of Houston. Okay.
And so Houston's my nearest big town.

Speaker 1 And so what kind of job are you looking for? Got all the jobs.

Speaker 2 I'm a mechanical engineer. I've done

Speaker 2 I've got experience in oil and gas and I've got experience in manufacturing and aerospace safety systems. I'm actually looking right now for a role potentially in oil and gas, but also in

Speaker 2 I know that there's a lot of space exploration that is so

Speaker 1 what would you be making in the new role approximately

Speaker 2 I would be a four-tier engineer so somewhere between eighty to ninety thousand.

Speaker 1 What do you make now? That's your small business.

Speaker 2 It's a carpentry business. That was a passion that I jumped into and it's very it varies of course based on the job.
I've been able to maintain around $65 to $70 a year,

Speaker 2 but that's starting to show we've got kids, a boy, and we want to have more kids, and that's starting to show that there's something else that needs to kind of take care of the expenses than just what I'm making now in the job.

Speaker 1 How long have you been married?

Speaker 2 We've been married about three years now, and she's funny enough, she's actually a German citizen with a green card. And so there's

Speaker 2 it's funny, I talked to her about finances and stuff, and there seems to be a disconnect where obvious things to me are not so obvious to her.

Speaker 2 And I see it as from her German background. It's like very different there, and there's not, you know, not as much of a.

Speaker 1 Her German family is in Brennan, Texas?

Speaker 2 Part of the German family, yeah. She's got family all over the world, but

Speaker 2 her sister, who she's very close to, they were her sponsors coming over. I met her through her family, and so I ended up marrying her, but we're close to her family who's here in Brenham, yes, sir.

Speaker 1 Her family is her sister?

Speaker 2 Her sister and her brother-in-law.

Speaker 1 They own a

Speaker 1 whole family hold.

Speaker 2 No, she's got a mom in Germany.

Speaker 1 That's what I'm telling you. I'm asking why in the heck you're staying in Brennan.
Her sister is why you're staying in Brennan?

Speaker 1 It's not exactly her mom. It's not exactly her mom, and you've got the grandkids you're running off with.

Speaker 1 Very true, very true.

Speaker 2 Her background with her family is very rough.

Speaker 1 A lot of bad stuff. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 Her sister was her mother, acting mother kind of thing.

Speaker 1 Okay. So

Speaker 1 here's the

Speaker 1 here's,

Speaker 1 you know, you guys have just got to sit down and talk about, okay,

Speaker 1 these things all don't go together. There's not a $90,000 job for me here.

Speaker 1 Right. If you are in agreement that I need to get a different job, you are saying we need to move closer to Houston.

Speaker 1 So instead of being 10 minutes from your sister, you're going to be 45 minutes from your sister, and I'm going to have a 30-minute commute. You're going to move between the two.

Speaker 2 Sure, yeah.

Speaker 1 That's reasonable.

Speaker 1 Yeah, absolutely. But if you can't communicate that kind of basic stuff, you got other issues like marriage issues.

Speaker 2 Oh, no, yeah. And

Speaker 2 that's it's not so much she's willing to move.

Speaker 1 No, she's not.

Speaker 1 That's why you called me.

Speaker 2 She's faithful as a wife, but she also has this.

Speaker 1 That's not the point. I didn't say she was unfaithful.
You called and said she's unwilling to move, but we're in agreement that I need a new job. That's exactly what you said right here.
I heard you.

Speaker 1 Right. Yeah, okay.
So quit changing the story.

Speaker 3 And if she can move across the world, I think she can move an hour away.

Speaker 1 From her city. That's going to be okay.

Speaker 3 You can visit her on the weekends. Yeah.
So I think there needs to be some compromise here.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I mean, and again, I'm not saying move to freaking New York City.

Speaker 1 You're moving closer to Houston where you have a 30-minute commute instead of an hour and a half. And then when she sees her sister on the weekend, for God's sakes, you drive an hour over there.

Speaker 1 I mean, you know, this is not.

Speaker 1 He wants to be a rocket scientist. So here we go.
I'm kidding.

Speaker 1 I'm kidding. It just

Speaker 1 happened. I almost said it, but no.

Speaker 1 No, I mean, that's, you know, you are in the hotbed if you want to be in the space world. My God, you're in Houston.
There's nowhere else other than Cape Canaveral that you could do better. So,

Speaker 1 but you're going to not commute an hour and a half so she can be near her sister. That's asinine.

Speaker 3 I think we're going to FaceTime for a while. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It'll be okay.

Speaker 1 Whatever. I mean,

Speaker 1 again, I'm not suggesting you completely disconnect, that you never see them again or whatever.

Speaker 1 But if you actually add up the number of hours that you spend with them during the week versus the number of hours you spend at work during the week, these two things are not compatible.

Speaker 1 So it's illogical. It's silly.
And we're both in agreement that me working all the time as a carpenter, my passion job, I think you said,

Speaker 1 is not working out. So, okay, good.
So get you an engineer job up towards Houston, move your butt up there.

Speaker 1 And then, you know, for God's sakes, hire her a driver and send her down to her, you know, to the sister if you have to. Whatever you got to do.
It's not really not, this is not hard. It's not hard.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 you can't have this both ways. You can't say, oh, you need to make more money.
We live in a dinky town that doesn't have a whole list of mechanical engineers.

Speaker 1 Now, if there's mechanical engineering you can do remote in the oil field, you might be able to do some remote work there. I don't know.

Speaker 3 I don't know how that works. I was thinking about that.

Speaker 1 Maybe you can land that and I'll just shut up and you just stay stay there. But you need to go find some actual jobs and make her turn them down.

Speaker 1 Not theory.

Speaker 3 Especially if it means a 50% pay increase.

Speaker 1 Well, that's what he's looking at.

Speaker 1 Looking from 60 to 90.

Speaker 3 It's serious.

Speaker 1 That's what he's looking at. So yeah,

Speaker 1 that's it.

Speaker 1 All right. Open phones at 888-825-5225.
There's a reason, folks, from an economics perspective.

Speaker 1 One of the classes I took way back in college when the dinosaurs roamed the earth and I was getting my real estate degree, urban economics. And urban economics are different than rural economics.

Speaker 1 There is more opportunity in a metropolitan area with a larger population. There is also the downside of a higher expense for real estate typically.

Speaker 1 And there's the downside of there's a dadgum many people. And not all of them are fun.

Speaker 1 And so, you know, you move to the city if you're going to, if you're going to move into some careers.

Speaker 1 And, And if you're going to move out towards the country, you're going to get cheaper real estate, a more rural setting. I love that personally.

Speaker 1 But you're going to have a commute in if you're going to be involved in the economics of the opportunities that are available. That's what he's finding.

Speaker 3 So you've got to pull all the different levers and find the way that you're going to be.

Speaker 1 You got a 5,000-person town. I don't know how big that town is.
He's in. I'm making this up.
But I mean, if you've got a 5,000-person town, it's different than a town of

Speaker 1 what's freaking Houston, 12 million or something? I mean,

Speaker 1 it's huge.

Speaker 1 Of course, it takes seven hours to drive across the whole thing. but yeah.

Speaker 3 Yeah, Brenham's got 17,000 people. Okay.

Speaker 3 Not a crazy big town.

Speaker 1 Yeah, there we go. Look at you with your quickness on the Google.

Speaker 1 This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 The best way to build wealth is on purpose.

Speaker 1 Reporters often ask me, Dave, What's the number one mistake Americans make with their money? As if they think I'm going to say a single thing. Don't they ask you that? Oh, yeah.
That's a magic thing.

Speaker 1 It's like a journalism question. They got that in first year journalism stuff.

Speaker 3 Like the, what's the best advice you've ever gotten? Yeah.

Speaker 1 What's the best, what's the best advice you give? What's the number one thing that people... Well, I finally developed a really good answer.

Speaker 1 You know what the number one mistake Americans make with their money? They don't freaking pay attention.

Speaker 1 They just drive with their eyes closed and then wonder why they hit the dadgum ditch.

Speaker 1 You know, I'm just going to spend everything I make and I'll get to retirement and go, I sure hope the government, which is well known for its ability to handle money, will take care of me.

Speaker 1 That's dumb.

Speaker 3 I'll just buy now, pay later, and swipe my life away and hope for the best.

Speaker 1 Just karna, karna, keep karna. Keep karna, karna, karna, then karma.
And a firm. I want to be affirmed.
I want to be affirmed with karma. Karna.
Then karma comes. Karna, karma.

Speaker 1 Oh, credit, karma, karma. You're killing me here.

Speaker 1 I was buying a t-shirt with a smart Alex saying on it. Can you imagine that? They offered me payments on the t-shirt, George.

Speaker 1 This is the problem. Okay, so let me tell you how you, how you build wealth.
You pay attention. You're intentional.
You make your money behave instead of wondering where it went.

Speaker 1 That's called, one of the things you do is you do a budget. You sit down, you go, okay, I manage freaking $100,000 a year and I have no idea.
That's dumb.

Speaker 1 If you work for somebody and that was your job, you get fired for being incompetent.

Speaker 3 If you're in the government, you get promoted.

Speaker 1 Well, we're not talking about that. You just get me mad now.
Don't do that. Sorry.
We're talking about real people, not government people.

Speaker 1 These are not bureaucrats. These are humans.
And we just don't pay attention. Pay attention.
Write it down. Agree on it with your spouse.

Speaker 1 Give every dollar an assignment before the month begins and then crack the freaking whip on those dollars and make them dance a jig so you end up with something out of it.

Speaker 1 I mean, get the chair out and the whip. You remember the old cartoon, the lion tamer?

Speaker 1 This money, it's going to eat your butt if you do not take care of it. You know why other people have more, you know why the rich get richer and the poor get poorer?

Speaker 1 Because the rich people keep doing rich people stuff. You know what rich people's stuff is? They pay freaking attention.

Speaker 1 They learn about investments. They invest.
They do a budget. They agree on spending with their spouse.
And it keeps working and they keep doing it over and over and over and over and over again.

Speaker 1 And,

Speaker 1 you know, you can't say, thank God it's Friday. Oh, God, it's Monday, and end up anything but broke.
Spend everything on the weekend.

Speaker 1 That's just short-sighted, lack of vision. You need a written budget.
This is why we named Every Dollar, the World's Best Budgeting Avery Dollar, because you give every dollar an assignment.

Speaker 1 You make every dollar freaking behave. You can download Every Dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play or click the link in the description if you're on podcast or YouTube.

Speaker 1 By the way, those of you listening to the show right this second,

Speaker 1 This is the last segment in this hour before we move to another segment. That last segment, the third segment of the show that's coming up in a few minutes is only available on the Ramsey Network app.

Speaker 1 And it's completely free. But if you haven't downloaded the Ramsey Network app yet, you need to so you can get the third element of the show, third segment of the show every day, video and audio.
And

Speaker 1 you can search it by call, subject, and you can send us an email and all kinds of stuff. So download the Ramsey Network app for free in the app store.

Speaker 1 Download the Every Dollar app for free in the A Store. See, now you're just all apt up as if you were at Applebee's or something and you just ordered the

Speaker 1 Ampler platter. Got all the apps.

Speaker 3 Don't tease.

Speaker 1 Got all the apps. I'm just saying.

Speaker 1 I'm sure somewhere Robert Kennedy just passed out. Okay.
Abigail in Tallahassee, Florida. Hey, Abigail, what's up?

Speaker 2 Hey.

Speaker 2 I was just needing some help trying to

Speaker 2 get my husband to be on board with the debt snowball.

Speaker 2 We're about $70,000 in between a car loan and then like credit cards and other loans. And then

Speaker 2 we make like $113,000 together. So I've got it, I

Speaker 2 outline the budget of how to get it. Like we can get this done in probably about

Speaker 2 two years.

Speaker 2 But he just keeps like

Speaker 2 blocking me. And I'm like,

Speaker 2 let's, we don't, it's, I, I don't know why like yeah you do he told you we have a

Speaker 1 you know him better than we do what do you think is behind this he didn't just say I want to be broke I'm gonna block you he didn't say that what did he say why didn't he want to do it

Speaker 2 I he just when I tried to talk to him about it this weekend his response was well just hand me over the finances and we'll get separate accounts and I'll pay what I pay out of my paycheck and then you pay what you pay out of your paycheck

Speaker 2 So that was like, that was the most recent reply.

Speaker 1 Okay, then basically he's saying, yes, we have a problem, but I have a different solution than you.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 That's different than he's blocking you.

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 1 he's to agree with you.

Speaker 3 And his solution is to Venmo you like a weird roommate situation.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 All right.

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 so here's the thing. How long ago did you start listening to our stuff?

Speaker 2 It's only been like a few weeks.

Speaker 1 That's what I thought. Okay.

Speaker 1 So here's what happens. You came running in all excited with a brand new thing with your hair on fire, and he went, oh, God, she fell for a scam.
She's joined a cult.

Speaker 1 Didn't he? That's why you laughed. I got you.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I appreciate your enthusiasm.

Speaker 1 I appreciate your enthusiasm, but you ruined it. Yeah.
So what you you need to do is go in and say, hey, listen,

Speaker 1 I owe you an apology because you do, by the way.

Speaker 1 You had information that he didn't have, and you tried to cram it down his throat. And you didn't mean to.
You were just excited, enthusiastic. You found some hope for the first time.

Speaker 1 And I don't blame you. I'm happy you got excited.
I'm glad we were able to do that for you. I also want to do it for him, okay?

Speaker 1 And so let's start with, I'm sorry, I went at this wrong. I really

Speaker 1 need you. I know you love me, and I know you care about our future, and I really need you to listen to what I've been learning and listen to this stuff, and then tell me what's wrong with it.

Speaker 1 And then turn on a YouTube debt-free scream

Speaker 1 and turn on this segment of the podcast, which will be posted today, and that kind of stuff. And then, you know,

Speaker 1 because what he is prescribing, there's no data that says, there's zero research that says what he's suggesting works as a matter of fact there's a lot of research that says what he's suggesting won't work but he is at least he is at least wanting to try something yeah yeah yeah and we've never had everything separate we've always you don't want it to be separate separate needs to be together and we need to be together and i need uh i need you as my man

Speaker 1 to hear me and I need us to get aligned on where we're going because this is scaring me to death where we are. Yeah.
And separating everything makes me feel like a divorce.

Speaker 1 I know I don't want a divorce.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And just start talking about this stuff and asking questions and draw him in. And because,

Speaker 1 you know, you just unlock, he went up to a water fountain to get a drink. You turned on a fire hose.

Speaker 1 Because you were excited. And I'm glad you're excited.
Don't misunderstand.

Speaker 1 That happens a lot, though. And then if you're not careful, you keep at it and you'll turn my name into a cuss word.

Speaker 1 Okay, that's the next step. Yeah.
Oh, yeah, that guy cult leader over there, that bald guy, yeah.

Speaker 1 And that's, that's what happens. It happens all the time.
And so,

Speaker 1 which is kind of weird because very few cult leaders are actually bald. But the

Speaker 1 most of them have really nice hair.

Speaker 3 Could be a wig. We don't know.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 anyway,

Speaker 1 so what we'll do, let me give you every dollar. And I'm going to give you Financial Peace University for free as our gift.

Speaker 1 And then say, hey, let's open these up and watch one of these videos together. And then you tell me if this is right or not.
You tell me what's wrong with what they're saying.

Speaker 1 Because

Speaker 1 I got some hope out of this, and I got really excited. This is you talking.

Speaker 1 Because hope is powerful, girl. It's wonderful.

Speaker 1 And so I'm so happy you got that.

Speaker 1 But he's not a bad guy, and he really doesn't want a divorce.

Speaker 1 You just swooped in there pretty heavy on him.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. So I think if you back off a little, let's

Speaker 3 approach it calmly.

Speaker 1 Don't take a machine gun to a fishing tournament, right?

Speaker 1 That's the idea here, right? Don't spray and pray. That's not what we're doing.
So we're actually going to use a little bit of finesse here. Finesse.
You're the wife. You know what finesse means.

Speaker 1 Husbands don't know what that means. It's usually the husband.
So you can do this. This is the Ramsey Show.