Learn the Power of the Magical Word, “NO”

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Number one best-selling author and host of The George Campbell Show, a big hit on YouTube on the Ramsey Network.
Mr. George Campbell himself is my co-host today.
Open phones here as we talk to you about your life and your money. 888-825-5225 is the number.
888-825-5225. The call is free, and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it.
Megan's going to start us off. Megan is in New Orleans.
Hi, Megan. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.
Hey, guys. Thanks so much for taking my call.
Sure. What's up in your world? Okay, so I have a question.
And just to paint a small picture, my husband and I, we've been married for seven years. We have no debt other than the mortgage on our house.
And so we're very thankful and have worked very hard for that. We've got two young kids, able to establish an emergency fund and retirement accounts and college savings for them.

But with all of that said, my parents are really not on a same financial path as we are. My dad is

in his 80s now and still works full time. My mom does not work and she hasn't worked before, but

just recently they've been bringing up to us, kind of my husband and I, that they don't know what

they're going to do for retirement. They have no retirement savings, very little in a savings

Thank you. But just recently, they've been bringing up to us, kind of my husband and I, that they don't know what they're going to do for retirement.

They have no retirement savings, very little in a savings account. They're not even really in a place to afford the house that they own with the money that they're making.
And we're starting to get this feeling that they're expecting us to take care of them at some point or to do something to help them. And without tapping into our own retirement or savings for our children's college and things like that, we're just really not in that type of space.
And so my question is, is it too late for them to start putting together a retirement plan? What are some options for them or how best really, what kind of boundaries do we need to set as a young family in helping out that other generation in retirement? Wow. I mean, it sounds almost ludicrous to just say out loud, he's 80 and now he thought about retirement.
Golly! Wow!

Who's late to the party here?

Like 20 years.

Oh, my gosh.

Oh, man.

So he's working every day and he's 80.

Yes, every single day.

And he's one of these people he loves to work, so I think he always will.

And at one point in your life... If he can.

For right. But you can't always.
You don't always have that as an option. I mean, his health may fail him.
What does he make? So he's, I want to say he's making around, right at about $100,000 total, because he does have Social Security coming in as well, but around $100,000, but my mom has never worked.

And so the question kind of is, if and when one of them passes before the other, what

are they going to do?

And that's where they're turning to us, is this younger generation, and asking us that

question.

And I don't really know what to say.

You know, the Bible teaches us to honor our father and mother, but how does that translate into something like this? Well, let me address that before I forget it. Honoring your parents means you honor the position of fatherhood.
It's like honoring the president. I may or may not agree with the president, but I honor the position of president.
Does that make sense?

And I can still disagree with the president because he might be wrong, you know, that kind of stuff, right?

So if mom's doing cocaine, we don't honor that, okay?

That's a misbehavior, but we honor her position as mother.

Does that make sense?

So we can honor them, and it doesn't require we give them money. That scripture has nothing to do with giving them money.
So anyway. There's no financial obligation.
You can still respect and honor them. I mean, just honor them, but it's just like, gosh.
Okay. Well, I think we got to head this off at the pass, and I think it's just time for a real clear in-person talk the next time you're in town and the holidays are coming up.
So here we go. Right? So we're going to sit down with them, um, and leave your husband out of it and leave, you know, whoever else out of it and just sit down and go, mom and dad, couple things.
One love you and i'm worried about you two is what's your plan three is i'm not your plan okay and so since i'm not your plan i will coach you i will cheer for you i will help you in any way i can i don't have the financial mathematical bandwidth to be your plan. So if you've got this in your head that somehow I'm going to pick this up when one of you can't, we need to talk about what happens, dad, if you can't work anymore because your health fails.
We need to talk about what happens, mom, if dad dies and $100,000 a year is not coming in anymore. How are you going to stay in this house? We need to talk about, because I want to love you all well and walk with you as you face what looks like some very difficult decisions to me that you're going to be making.
And I hurt for you, and I want to help if I can in the coaching and cheering aspect, but not in the financial aspect. And I think you say all that out loud.
What you might discover is that, you know, that they maybe have done something you don't even know about. Maybe they're further ahead than you think.
Maybe they're worse off than you think. But knowing if they open up the, if they put their cards on the table face up, knowing what's going on is going to be a lot better for you than just guessing, because guessing always makes us think it's worse than it is.
And some tactical pieces you can do, Megan, is sit down with them and go, let's make a budget together. We're going to sit down and use every dollar.
Let me get you connected to a SmartVestor Pro. Let's get you investing some of this $100,000 while you still have it.
Let's look at your total debt load. Do you need to downsize in home? What sacrifices must be made for you guys to retire with dignity? You can help them answer the questions, but I would not just start funding their misbehavior for the last 20 years.
You do not have a moral, ethical, or moral or ethical or spiritual obligation to write them checks. And that's what we've been worried about.
You know, and we want to see them do well. And we've had some of these initial conversations saying we don't have that bandwidth.
Okay, what do they say? So they, I think it may be just some of their own nervousness coming in. They kind of laugh it off a little bit.
And kind of joke saying, and this has been said by my mom, like, well, I'll just move in with you guys and help take care of your children. And that's not really the plan that we want.
Yeah. And just say, you know, Mom, I love you, but I would kill you if you moved in here, and you would kill me, and so we don't want any murders, so we need a different plan.
She might stop laughing. Oh, gosh, that was too too real but that's these are tough boundaries conversations we're gonna sell your house and we're gonna buy you a condo that's one-tenth the size of this house you're gonna pay cash for it and live on social security mom that's what you're gonna do and that's gonna be your best life now and um you know you just gotta work you gotta push them on through it and the problem is it's just very difficult it's very difficult but i don't want you to have i don't want you to misinterpret that scripture and let that be turned into an enabling vibe and that's what you're that's what you're struggling with you're like i want to be a good daughter want to be a good spiritual person, but I don't want to be an enabler.
And it feels like they've been not dealing with this. And now they're going to want me to deal with it since they didn't deal with it.
And that's most of America right now, by the way. Yeah, this is an epidemic.
They're called silver squatters, Dave, relying on the kids. Silver squatters.
Don't like it, but that's what they called it. Got little silver hair going and they just squattedatted right there in the old living room, said, I'm going to take care of your kids.
I'm going to take care of your kids. The silver squatters.
Oh, that's awful. This is the Ramsey Show.
Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance, or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John.
Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're not going to die or something? Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it.
And one of my buddies said, hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids. And I immediately went and got term life insurance.
That's a gut punch. For decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse.
They've lost somebody important to them. Me too.
They don't know what to do next. You're going to have a crisis here.
You know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow.
That's exactly right. These are the two options.
It's saying I love you to your family. Term Life Insurance.
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George Camel, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Yahoo Finance.
Generation X has gone by many names over the years. They started as the MTV generation, became known as the latchkey kids, were labeled America's forgotten middle child.
But as retirement looms closer for Gen X, a new term is popping up in conversations that captures the anxiety and uncertainty many are feeling. Silver squatters.
There it is. There it is.
It's a phrase that vividly paints a picture of a generation grappling with a looming financial crisis as they edge into their mid-50s without the cushion needed for a secure retirement. The silver nods to the graying hair.
Squatters suggest where they might end up staying with their adult children. There it is.
Median retirement for 55-year-olds? Which we call these adult children the sandwich generation. They're sandwiched between their kid's college and their parents' lack of retirement planning.
And they're supposed to take care of people on both ends of the spectrum, and in the middle you get squashed! I feel like that would just create a cycle where they become the next Silver Squatters because they had to take care of the people on all sides and therefore couldn't invest in retirement because they were trying to fund mom and dad's retirement. That's scary.
I say you change your family tree and go, we're not doing that. Well, I think you have to institute, you have to bring out the secret weapon.
What's that? The ancient word. Uh-oh.
The word that no one is allowed to speak anymore. You're not allowed to utter it in the American public.
Has it been canceled? You can't say it in any place, particularly around government or around entitled people. You want to hear the word? I want to hear it.
No. Dave, you can't say it on air.
We're going to get taken off. I know.
You press your tongue towards the roof of your mouth. Make a kissing motion with your lips.
I know you've not used it in a while. No.
No, we're not going on vacation. We can't afford it.
No, we can't keep this house. We haven't saved anything for retirement.
No, you can't lease that car, bozo. You're broke.
No, you can't afford a boat. No, you can't even afford the fish the fish the boat would catch no you can't afford to put gas in the boat that the fish won't catch but no no no no no no Dave you're no fun yes I am I'm a lot of fun no Dave loves saying no it's one of your it's how you got here today it's a great it's exercise.
No, mom, you're not moving in with us.

No, I just found out today you're called a silver squatter.

Who knew?

I want to know what they call you, Dave.

It's kind of derogatory.

I'm not sure that's honoring your parents.

But yeah, no.

No.

No.

I have to feed my kids.

No.

You're 80 years old.

You just now woke up and realized there's retirement.

Where the heck was your brain 40 years ago? No, no, no, no, no. You can't afford to go on vacation.
No, you can't afford to eat out every night. No, you're going to eat beans and rice, rice and beans.
No eating out. No, no, you're broke people.
Broke people don't do things like that. No, no, you can't have a cell phone.
No, you're broke. No, no, no, no.
It's the ancient word. It will set you free.
I want to make that a ringtone and sell it so badly. It's just Dave saying no, no, no.
Well, it's not a killjoy thing because you're saying no so that you can say yes to living. It's live like no one else so that later you can live like no one else it's no discipline seems pleasant at the time but it yields a harvest of righteousness if i want my belly to be smaller i have to look at a donut and say no because my belly grows exponentially just by walking past donuts much less eating them i didn't know smelling calories no fat boy no.
No more donuts. No, no.
This could change America. I'm telling you, it's an amazing, it's an amazing thing.
But no one says it to each other or to themselves. And when you learn this magical word, it will set you free.
Because I want to be a good daughter, a good friend, a good wife. So I'm just going to say yes to it.
No, no, you're not an enab an enabler no no i love you too much to lie to you no really seriously set you free i love it so our black friday sale is here and you don't have to say no to that because the deals are so good some things you should say how do you segue out of that marketing piece no you can Okay. Well, if you've budgeted for Christmas,

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check out the christmas deals don't miss it and if you think you're going to miss it don't i said no don't miss it no don't miss it all right i did i see you see that that was pretty smooth record count alex is in phoenix alex what's up hey how you doing dave better than i deserve How can we help?

So I had a question.

I recently just received or i haven't gotten the check yet but i'm receiving the second half of a settlement from a car accident i was in two years ago which is for a million dollars and i'm wondering if i should pay off my mortgage. Good Lord, hon.
What happened?

So, I was, me and my buddy were on a trip to Vegas and got in a head-on collision.

There were two fatalities and the rest of us were all airlifted to Thunderbird Hospital.

Oh.

Fatalities in your car, hon?

There was one in ours and then one in the other. Oh man, I'm so sorry.
Wow. How are you doing now? I'm doing really good.
Um, still have like some minor things that bothered me, like my wrists. Um, uh, I have like 90% mobility in it.
It used to be a lot worse but that and then my my abs are still

healing i had uh i've been two holes in my small intestine a hole in my colon so they had to get me wide open that was quite the healing process so you're kind of crushed in the accident then. Wow.
Yeah. Unbelievable.
Okay. Well, first question is, um, if your income into the near future or the long term future is affected, we need to set the money aside to all some of the money to side or whatever amount to offset that.
Are you back to work? Are you, are you moving again? I

mean, what's happening with your income? Yeah. So, um, before the accident, I was,

I don't even remember what I was doing. I don't think I was working a full-time job at the time.

Um, how old are you? I, I've got my, I'm 23 years or 22 years old.

All right. Were you working on education? No.
I got my EMT out of high school and then didn't like it and have done a bunch of, like, construction jobs. So let me ask you this then.
Okay, you're 23. You've got some aches and and pains but it sounds like you're largely healed um what's the 30 year old alex going to be doing with his life career wise um probably real estate i got my real estate license and i also do um real estate wholesaling and I've done a couple flips in the past with my family.
So I would imagine I'd continue doing that. Okay.
All right. And how much debt do you have? So the mortgage on our house is just under me and my wife.

Oh, you're married.

Okay.

All right.

I missed that.

What does she make?

She makes roughly $3,500 a month.

Okay.

And how much have you been making in real estate?

Honestly, I have been slacking and haven't pulled in much in the last three months um why but i just i the only reason i got my license was so that i could get clients that my parents own a probate company and they have clients and that's not what i'm asking hon i'm I'm asking why you're not working. You're 23 years old and you're married.

Is it medical condition, or why are you not working?

I am, like, working.

I just haven't been working as hard as I could have, and I haven't been making the calls I need to call. I have, but I also just haven't.
Nothing's been working out. Okay.
And how much do you owe on your home? $290. Okay.
All right. Yeah, I pay off my house.
I'd set aside if there's any taxes on any of this. Some of it will be taxable.
Some of it won't be depending on how it's structured. And I want you to sit down with somebody and address what it is that makes the sun come out again and makes you get your ambition bone moving again, because it sounds like this wreck hurt you physically but might have slowed you down emotionally as well.
It would have me, by the way. Sounds like a horrible accident.
I'm so sorry. This is The Ramsey Show.
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That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Deloney. George Camel Ramsey personality is my co-host today if you're ever around the nashville area we're in franklin a beautiful little town just south of nashville and you can come by and watch the show we do it live on the air on the glass from one to four meaning folks sit in our lobby anywhere from 50 to 200 200 of them watching the show.
And we charge like nothing, and it's worth every penny. And there's free coffee to bribe you, and even better than that, free homemade cookies to bribe you.
So when you walk in here, it smells like Mama's Kitchen. In the middle of that lobby right here on the glass, so we can look out the glass and see them.
And I used to have a sign in here with me that said, Don't Feed the Monkey, but then I wasn't the only one on the air, we can look out the glass and see them and i used to have a sign in here with me that said don't feed the monkey but then i wasn't the only one on the air and other people took offense to that it wasn't me i know i thought it was hilarious it was ken any of us monkeys but yeah there you go so anyway on in the uh lobby is also the debt-free stage kyle and samantha are with us hey guys how are you good how are you dave better than. It's good to have you.
Where do you live? Manchester, New Hampshire. Wow.
Welcome to the South. Thank you.
Good to have you. And how much debt have you two paid off? $130,000.
Good for you. How long did that take? Four years.
Four years. And your range of income during that time? It started out at $130,000 and ended at around $150,000.
Good for you. What do you all do for a living? I'm a dental hygienist.
And I'm a mechanical engineer. Excellent.
Very good. So what kind of debt was $130,000? It was our house.
You paid off your house? Yes. How old are you two? 36.
And you're a paid-for house? Yes. What's this house worth about 340 000 right now very cool and how much have you guys got in your retirement nest egg so far uh in total with the house it's over 500 000 okay you're on your way to millionaire already way to go and you're not even 40 years old way to go you two thank you look at the smart people right here i love it you you guys hit your early 30s you're like 32 years old been married a little while at what point were you married uh we got married in uh 2012 right yeah okay this is pretty deep into marriage and you guys woke up four years ago and said let's just go ahead and knock out the house what started that journey for you uh we uh one of my co-workers at my first job he said the best 12 he ever spent was on the total money makeover so um i ended up buying it and it was the best 12 i spent wow thank you i don't necessarily always agree on this journey i wouldn't would have be lying if i said that you weren't a swear word at times in our house it's a gift it's a trigger when i hear the word spreadsheet still i've been a trigger now i've thought of myself as a trigger i did think of myself as a swear word but yeah were you dragged and then as you made progress you went okay i get it and what happened here yeah i definitely um it took a while to win her over it's still it's still a work in progress so the engineer nerd yeah is coming in nerding out your life and you're like i want to have one a life that is yeah and you're trying to steal my life i hate dave ramsey that sounds good i like that is that kind of how it went yes yeah that's what i would have gone with that did he walk in with the spreadsheet going babe we could save so much time and money if we just paid it up early yes wow 12 years you're married to an engineer.
You didn't know that he thinks spreadsheets are sexy.

Right.

I know that now.

It's his love language.

Wow.

That'll work.

Was your goal four years or was it more aggressive?

Did you do it slower, faster?

Well, once we decided to pay off the house,

it was around two, two and a half years,

but we had two kids in that amount of time

to add to our three kids we already had.

Party. Yeah.
So it took a little bit longer. Wow.
Got the gang here. Look at that.
And the dog. And the dog.
Yeah. Wow.
Beautiful. Well done, y'all.
Well done. Thank you.
Life is good, huh? It is. We're very blessed.
The number one career in the millionaire study that we did, the one most likely to be a millionaire is an engineer so there you go so that stuff all pays off after all so stereotypical yeah there it is just like you guys are doing it that's perfect you guys well done what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is it's communication for sure you have to be on the same page and it's also important just to have a village around you that supports you and make sure and what was your village we have our parents for sure and then we got our friends over here that are with us too so made the trip down for the debt-free screen they did all right very good cool so uh what was the thing that drove you what's your why why why do this uh i was i was more worried when we started having kids and trying to pay for college and stuff. So I just wanted to get out of debt because I had student loans and I didn't want my kids to have student loans.
So that was a big motivator for me. It's a change in the family tree.
And you've got a lot of kids. That's a lot of college to pay for.
It is. Yes.
I know where that freed up mortgage payment's going. Straight to the 529 plans.
Yeah. Wow.
What's the first big thing you guys did or are going to do? Well, I tripped in Nashville. We're calling it our yes year now.
So now we can say yes to things. Yep.
As Dave said earlier, you got to say no a whole lot. We did.
We did. You did it.
You did it. You did it.
So Samantha, what was it that actually did? All kidding aside, you actually did join the crusade here at some point. What caused the change that allowed you to do that? Just for me, my heart's always been forgiving and just one, making sure that our kids see how important that is and really just being able to be generous and let our kids know the importance of that.
Yeah. Yeah.
And you get yourself in a real strong financial position.

You can do giving at a different level.

100%.

Yeah, and you're there now.

Way to go.

And you're only 36.

You're going to be so wealthy, so generous, so out of control.

Well done, y'all.

Very, very well done.

Very good stuff.

So now that you're there, when you flipped the switch

and you paid off the mortgage,

did you notice a change in the way just it felt? Yeah. Yeah.
It definitely feels different, especially every first of the month when that money doesn't come out of your account and you can see your account growing. Budgeting gets a lot more fun when you get to just delete the mortgage payment out.
You got property taxes and but man that principle and interest not being there that frees you up emotionally mentally financially yes yeah it's huge yeah way to go you guys i'm proud of you thank you who's cheering you on along the way your friends and your family and who else co-workers yeah my my parents were we were we were actually in a race to see who could pay off our house the first and we won so so it was a little competition i love that were the kids aware of what was going on the older ones were they like okay we can see the sacrifice we're feeling it too we gotta make beat grandma i wouldn't say that not cutting the snack budget no they weren money. Ooh.
So. Well, there you go.
There you go. And now, if you snack like no one else later, you can snack like no one else.
So there you go. Good stuff.
Well done, you two. Proud of you.
Excellent, excellent job. All right.
It's Kyle and Samantha. Manchester, New Hampshire.
$130,000 paid off. That's house and everything.
They're debt-free. No mortgage, America.
You know what their interest rate problems are? None. They don't have one.
That's right. They did this in four years, making $130,000 to $150,000, and it's hard.
But is it worth it? Yes. Definitely.
Count it down, Kyle and Samantha. Let's hear a debt-free scream.
Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah! This is how it's done.
I like the irony because New Hampshire's motto, live free or die. What better way to live free than knowing nobody anything? Is it really? That's it.
That's about as rock and roll as it gets. How did you know that? I'm from Massachusetts.
I was always jealous we didn't have a cooler state motto. Yeah, wow.
Okay. Apparently from adopted by the state in 1945.
It was from a letter from General John Stark in 1809 to live free or die.. Live Free or Die.
Here's your history lesson. That's good.
All right. I got my trivia lesson.
But, yeah, I'll go with that, though. I mean, here's the thing.
All I can hear about when I'm doing media interviews and you're doing media interviews is that there's a whole generation that feels stuck. There's a whole generation that doesn't think they can get ahead.
There's a whole generation, Gen Z and Gen X and millennials, I mean, millennials and Gen Z that says they can't make it. And then you meet Kyle and Samantha.
And we get to meet them every week. You know how stuck they are? Not stuck! No excuses.
That's how stuck they are. Not stuck.
Not stuck.

Get a reasonable home, pay it off

aggressively, live the rest of your life free.

The same interest rate on their mortgage I got on mine.

Zero! Don't have one!

Not stuck! Take that for the

two percenters out there who go, I'll never pay my

off, Dave. Dave Ramsey's so full of crap.

Dave Ramsey's not stuck!

Zero mortgage. Zero percent

interest. You gotta love it.
That's how much I'm worried about the Fed. Not stuck.
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Today's question comes from Andrew in Switzerland. I'm an American, but I live in Europe where salaries are much lower.
I'm a seasonal restaurant worker spending winters in Switzerland and hare situation here. I know I need to diversify, but I'm an aggressive investor who thinks without risk, there is no way to win.

This is a tortoise and hare situation here. He's the hare.
He's going, I got to have the risk of my life, Dave. And you're asking us to diversify because you know you should have less risk.
You know that you could lose your butt if one thing happens in the crypto world. Yeah, statistically, Andrew,

the fastest way to get rich quick is to get rich slow.

Because people doing the crap you're doing

end up losing everything

and they get to start over several times.

You know how I know that?

I did it.

I was doing flip this house

before Chip and Joanna were born.

Okay?

And I lost my butt because I never met a risk I didn't like.

I believed in me and I knew I knew everything.

And I'm so smart, I could outwork the real estate market and the banking market.

Just like you're so smart, you can invest in something that's not even real called crypto.

And you're going to lose your butt. And then you're going to get the opportunity to start over.
And then if you don't fix this broken thing in your brain that's causing you to look for a shortcut called pride, which comes right before the fall, quit looking for a shortcut. There's no place worth going that there's a shortcut to.
So you're not going to do any of this because I winter in Switzerland a nice summer in Australia. Oh, brother, seriously, lean in and get in a grind and grind your way into some wealth, honey.
That's where it comes from. There's no statistical evidence anywhere in any wealth building study that I've ever seen or ever done that indicates anything you're doing is going to work.
None of it's going to work. So how's that for depressing? But yeah, I mean, we're here.
We'd love you so much. We tell you the truth to be unclear is to be unkind.
We are anything but anabler we want you to win so i'm talking to you like you were my little brother worse than that one of my kids and so no if you're going to do this thing you're doing for your career uh which also feels like some kind of a lot doesn't feel like a career it feels like vacation it feels like the whole thing to use a game. But, hey, dude, you do whatever you want to do.

You're not an aggressive investor. You serve tables.
You're not an aggressive investor. It doesn't look as good in the Instagram bio.
I know. You need to steadily invest steady, steady, steady in things that are boring.
The antithesis of everything you're talking about is the best way to become wealthy. All the data, which are called facts, indicate that.
That's not a difference in your opinion and Dave's opinion. No, your opinion's wrong, and mine's based on facts, data.

So please don't do this, honey.

You're going to – So we'll answer your question.

I mean, you want to diversify.

Diversify across some different types of mutual funds.

I would cancel all the crypto, and I'd start investing in good growth stock mutual funds

that have 50- and 100-year track records.

And this means owning little shares of a whole lot of companies that represent the overall market.

And you will end up with much more money at the end of the story because you won't get the opportunity to start over three times. Because you're going to lose your butt in crypto.
One of the wealthiest men in the world said if he could buy all the crypto for $5, he wouldn't do it. His name is Warren Buffett.
If he said if he could buy the whole thing for $5, he wouldn't take it. Because it has no utility.
What's he going to do with it? It's not even a commodity. It's a currency.
You're investing in currency. You know, just go buy the Iraqi dinar.
Oh my God, it's a currency that failed. And that, you know, that's what we're dealing with here.
It might make it, but it's not an appropriate investment for someone in your situation. It's an appropriate investment for someone worth $2 billion to put in $50,000 and play with it, like they were playing a roulette wheel or something.
But this is Russian roulette here. This is dangerous.
Please, please, please stop it, Andrew. This is just a mess.
Everything in this is a mess. Nick is in Green Bay, Wisconsin.
Hi, Nick. What's up? Hey, guys.
How's it going? Better than I deserve. How can I help? Me and my wife just started the tech and baby step a couple months ago.
And I guess I'll just paint a picture of what I'm looking at. So after we started the second baby step, we started to kind of just put the ducks in a line and see what needs to be paid off first.
So we had a bunch of bunch of credit card debt and those credit cards were high in interest. Um, so we pulled out a personal loan and combined those with a small, a lower interest.
So we would have an extra a hundred dollars going to the debt instead of interest. Um, so we're working on paying that off right now, and then we have a bigger credit card that we're still paying normal minimum payments to.
How much is the personal loan, Nick? It is just under $4,000. And how much is the bigger credit card, Nick? $11,000.

Okay.

And what's your household income, Nick?

About $78,000.

Okay.

And how much is your car payment?

The card payment is $258,000. No, no, no, car payment, auto.

Oh, car payment, $258,000.

What do you owe on it? $11, it 11 000 okay what other debt have you got um other than uh mortgage we just have those three so about 26 grand total in debt you make 78 we don't need to play shell games moving debt around anymore we just just need to aggressively attack it. Yeah.
What's your question?

$100 a month screwing around with all this,

you could have found in a budget by staying out of restaurants.

Correct.

So the question was, I was just kind of looking for a little more money

to pay down that personal loan.

Cut your lifestyle.

Let's see it up quicker.

What's my lifestyle? Yeah, cut your lifestyle lifestyle that's where you're going to find it okay you working 40-hour job i'm a truck driver okay are you working a 40-hour job are you gone all week or what yeah it's a it's-hour. Okay, so you're gone all week? Yep.
Okay, and what's your wife make? She's a stay-at-home. Okay, all right.
So what we're going to do is we're going to, George and I are going to put you into EveryDollar, which is our budgeting app, to show you how to make the money that you have behave, because we can tell from these numbers that it's not behaving. You're looking for a math hack.
There's not a math hack. There's a spending hack, and you make a good amount of money, and your debt is not an overwhelming number.
This is a number you can pay off very, very quickly, probably in a year or just a little over a year, but you're going to have no life. Rather, your wife's going to have no life while you're on the road, and you're going to have no life while you're on the road.
Peanut butter and jelly, beans and rice, tuna fish. These are the things that are in your future while you get out of debt, okay? We're not spending money in restaurants.
We're not spending money on vacations. We're not spending any money anywhere because we're going to clean this debt up really, really fast.
So what I'm telling you is, is I want you to find around $2,000 a month in this budget to attack this with. And I think you can do it.
If you're bringing home six, that shouldn't be hard if you cut your spending. And you ought to be bringing home around six.
It might be your withholding. It might be some other stuff.
We'll help you with this. We'll even put you into Financial Peace University.
You and your wife go through all of that. I'm going to pay for it for you and help you get moving.
It's not a hack you're looking for. It's a grind.
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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions,

it's the Ramsey Show,

where we help people build wealth,

do work that they love,

and create actual amazing relationships.

I'm Dave Ramsey, number one bestselling author, host of the George Camel Show on YouTube, is my co-host today, Ramsey personality, George Camel. Open phones at 888-825-5225.
Haley in Savannah, Georgia. What's up? Hi, guys.
Thank you so much for taking my call today. My husband and I are both firefighter paramedics, and we've been together four years now.

We got married this past May.

We both want kids.

We're both ready emotionally and me biologically to go ahead and start having children.

And I've heard what you said on the show before about you know not not waiting around to have kids um my husband and i kind of disagree about something he thinks that our current situation it would be irresponsible for us to have a child um and i just i don't agree're right. He's wrong.
That's what I keep telling him. You're right.
He's wrong. Let me ask you something though.
Is he saying to you without saying to you when you quit being impulsive and overspend and make our finances all screwed up, then I'll ready to have kids is he trying to reign you in um are you out of control are you out of control i don't think i'm out of control i didn't ask that i asked if you are out of control is that what he's saying to you no he wants like i don't want to already have a kid i don't need

more is that what he's saying no are you sure i'm positive okay who's the nerd who's the nerd

who's the free spirit he is the nerd he is the nerd and i'm the free spirit

so what evidence does he have that you guys are not in a place to have this kid financially

Thank you. He is the nerd and I'm the freestand.
So what evidence does he have that you guys are not in a place to have this kid financially? So we have a HELOC and it's around, it's got $44,000 left on it for us to pay off. What did you buy on the HELOC? $3,000.
We were really stupid and had a big wedding. Wow.
So you owned the home before you were married, then took out a HELOC to pay for a big fancy wedding? So the HELOC was my father's, and I'm on it with him. So we're paying obviously off what we put on it together, yes.
We're making really big payments on it, $3,000 a month payments combined.

He and I make $136,000 a year.

Our cards are paid off.

And the only thing we're paying on our living arrangements is property taxes.

Okay, so you're together on your plan and you're living sacrificially to hit your goals.

Correct. So he wasn't calling you a princess then was he i was wrong i know he he's i mean i am his princess no that wasn't what i meant i'm talking about a negative princess not like you're my princess i'm not i don't need that that's not that's not for the show aoney show.
No. But no.
All right. So is it because of the HELOC? He's saying, hey, we've got this big HELOC we're trying to pay off.
Now is not the time to have a kid? No, he's just super conservative, and he sees all kinds of pain every day. He's very conservative, and he just, I think he would feel more comfortable knowing that we were completely debt freefree going into.
Well, he'd feel more comfortable if you had $2 million, but you don't wait on that to have kids. Well, gosh, you win the whole argument today, girl.
I don't even get to pick on you. I don't even get to pick on you.
You fought your way through that. Way to go.
And I don't know if he knows how kids works, but you have like a nine-month lead lead up to get your act together and get the c-lock paid off so it's not like an instantaneous thing three thousand dollars and you only owe 40 you're done in a year i want to respect him and his feelings though about it i i don't you know i don't want to push him and and he i do feel like he is head of the household well here's theites attract. Assuming both of you are healthy and living sacrificial towards a plan, opposites attract.
The spender always attracts the saver. The free spirit always attracts the nerd.
And you need both of you. You need both sets of input.
Because if two people just alike get married, one of you is unnecessary so you need each other right so he needs you he needs to respect you too in this so the year that rachel cruz was born was the year we filed bankruptcy that's how irresponsible we were and that didn't have anything to do with sharon that had to do with me being an idiot she sharon didn't cause any of that so But I think you guys face a lot of trauma in other people's lives all day long, and that can translate into being super conservative and trying to keep control on everything at home, can't it? Yes, sir. And I think part of the issue or nervousness for him is obviously my lifestyle is going to change.
I can't work the physicality of the job while being pregnant, or obviously things will be different afterwards. It's a very demanding job.
Yes, it is. We're away from home at night.
You guys are heroes. That makes him nervous.
Yeah. I think he's got reason to be nervous because he's a young dad to be and that's mandatory for all young dads to be to be nervous it's like comes with the territory but as the old guy here i'm gonna tell you have babies right now right now that's what i would do and really when you look at the actual cost of what it's going to take oh it's not cost you know like what's going to be in going to be in the budget.
You can do all the math, but I don't think that's enough for him. I think he truly is just, he feels like he's not ready.
Well, if she is responsible, and I was accusing her of maybe not being, and I was wrong, because I think she held up to that, that interrogation. That was pretty strong.
Yeah, she wasn't bowing down. She didn't back down.
That's a good, yeah i mean because i i you know because sometimes for for for you ladies out there sometimes husband speak is um they're saying one thing but they really mean something else oh wait a minute wives do that too yeah okay it's human condition yeah but yeah so sometimes you know your husband's saying we can't afford this what he's saying is because of you. And that's what I was going, but I was wrong.

I missed that one.

I missed that one.

I don't miss him often, but I missed that one.

Rick.

Rick is up.

He's in Albany, New York.

Rick, what's going on?

Hey, thanks, Dave and George, for taking my call.

I'll be quick.

My wife and I just completed Financial Peace University.

And during Lesson 6, which is about understanding insurance, I brought up a question about a whole life insurance policy I have. It's well over 100,000.
It's got a fairly large cash value. And I know I need to get rid of it and I want to sell it.
And my question is, you hear about all these ads on TV like Coventry Direct and that they say, before you let it lapse or you sell it find out what it's worth, and that you could probably get more for it. What are your views about selling it to someone else? That's a viatical, and I would stay completely away from that.
There's no point in that, because it's still in your name. It's still all screwed up.
No, it's real simple, Rick. You're right.
It is a quick question. The things that you learned told you it was not a good product, and you decide to get out of it.
You're just trying to figure out the best way to get out of it. And the best way to get out of it is just cancel it.
Surrender the policy. Surrender it.
And get term life in place first. Before you do that.
And then get your cash value back and use your cash value on your baby steps. And certainly that includes investing in investing in anything is better than a universal policy.
Putting it in a fruit jar, you'll end up with more money. This is The Ramsey Show.
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That's why I'm pumped to bring the Money and Relationships Tour to a city near you. Join me and Dr.
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Ramsey personality is my co-host in the studio. Well, we've got a celebrity with us today, Jimmy Darts.
Jimmy is a media personality, TikTok sensation known by his videos of him giving money and other random acts of kindness. Jimmy is an expert on generosity, man.
I mean, you have done some of the best video work on randomly messing up people's lives in an awesome way with generosity. I'm so proud of you.
Well done, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. It's a blast.
It's what we're all called to do, and when we do it, we feel like we're in our purpose and we're alive. So seeing someone else's day made because you gave a sacrifice, whether it's small or big, it's always worth it.
So, Jimmy, you DM me out of the blue and I was like, did Jimmy, did he get hacked on Instagram? And you were going, man, I'm a big Ramsey fan. And so we got connected and it's been a blast becoming friends with you.
And I want everyone to know the story of how this got started because it's powerful and it started with your own life change. Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. When I was a little kid, the first time I really experienced what it's like to give something away and bless someone, my parents for Christmas gave us $200.
They said, a hundred for you is to keep, buy whatever you want, a hundred, you got to give away to someone else. And so the very first time I gave was a guy on the street, he had a sign, I gave him a hundred bucks and just as a kid, seeing his face just melt, changed my life and marked me.
And then I kind of lived for a knucklehead the rest of my high school years and did a lot of party videos. But then when I was 18, I just met the love of Jesus, got transformed and never thought I'd pick up my video gift again.
And I was out reading the Bible one day and I felt like the Lord said, Jimmy, it's time to go back and make videos, but this time do it for me. And I said, all right.
I mean, what do you want me to be a preacher? What does that mean? He goes, no, I want you to ask people for help when they help you change their life. So that's when I started doing these videos, asking someone to help me get a tank of gas in my car or to buy me a gallon of milk.
And when they did that, we gave them 500 bucks and just to see their reactions was powerful. And then the internet started donating and that person's two dollars or five dollars they gave me turned into them getting back like fifty thousand dollars and so it was pretty powerful yeah the videos are i can watch them all day i mean it just makes you cry makes my eyes leak i love it and just watching these people's face change and and, and, um, I mean, you're, you're really, really good at your craft too.
You've developed this. I mean, it's not manipulation at all, but, but I mean, uh, you're editing in the process.
You, you build such a great story in such a short timeframe. Uh, the arc goes through that thing and it works so powerfully.
I watched like 10 of them. Uh, you got to get back to work.
People need you out there. And like Dave talks about, you're not the hero in these videos.
The person is. And it's why we don't see a lot of Jimmy in the videos.
You want to make it about them. You're simply the guide.
And we've got a clip. And this is one of your favorite moments with our friend Lulu.
Can we watch it? Let's check it out. Over $42,000 was donated to help you out.
No way. 24 hours earlier, I met Lulu, a struggling mom who couldn't get a job because of her smile.
Excuse me, ma'am. Sorry to bother you.
I'm just trying to ask people for a dollar to get the bus out of here. I don't know if you have anything, but it's not going to hurt you.
No. It'll help you more than it'll hurt me thank you what's your name lulu i then surprised lulu with a thousand dollars for her kindness and then she shared this with me thank you yes i got five kids going for a lot not having a job they act like they want to hire you but then when you got a messed up smile they think about different things and they just they say that they don't hire you because of that but but I feel like it is.
The next day, I met up with Lulu to give her the surprise of her life. Over $42,000 was donated to help you out.
No way. Yes.
No way. So you're going to be able to get new teeth.
Is this something you've been praying for? Definitely. All right, what actually happened? You walked up, asked her for a dollar to get on the bus.
She gave it to you, and then you did what? Yeah, she gave me a dollar to get on the bus, and then I asked her her story, and she started telling me that she's been trying to get a job as a single mom, but it's been really hard because her teeth were kind of messed up, and people assumed she was on drugs and all this. And so it was just the saddest story ever, and I ended up giving her $500.
She starts bawling her eyes out, and I gave her a hug, got her number. And I said, I'm going to be praying for you, knowing that she doesn't know.
But there's millions of people watching on the other side of that phone that are going to want to change her life. And so we ended up raising over $50,000 for her and ended up flying her out to Nashville.
And she got brand new teeth. Jason Aldean and his wife, their dentist, they helped make that happen.

She's got brand new teeth now. She went back to Vegas, got a job.
She's given her life to Jesus, I've heard. Her life's got back on track.
We got the photo here. If you're watching on YouTube, the app, look at that smile.
Before and after. Yeah, that's awesome.
Those are the temporaries. They'll even look better than that.
That's incredible. That's so fun.
Yeah. And, um, I mean, so you, your whole approach is you walk up, find someone and ask them for help.
And then they finally, I bet you get turned down. Yeah.
Yeah. A few times I get turned down.
And, uh, when I do, I mean, you know, I'm just looking out there for, for the people that do pass the test because we're really trying to find people that have lived a lifestyle of generosity and kindness their whole life and never got rewarded for it. But in that one moment, they become the hero.
And if you read the comments in my videos, like 90% of them are about the person and not me. And that's why they want to help out.
And so it's been really powerful. And there's been a lot of amazing stories.
Yeah, my favorite one is probably Steve. He was a homeless vet.
He was in Anaheim. He was just sleeping on the side of the road, went up to him, saw he was struggling with addiction.
And I was like, man, I don't know if there's anything to help this guy. So I almost kept walking.
That's when I felt the Lord say, no, no, no, maybe not money this time, but ask him what's on his bucket list. So I said, Steve, what's on your bucket list? And he just perked up and he goes, man, I want to skydive hot air balloon and go deep sea fishing.
It was like he was ready for me to ask the question. And I said, all right.
And sure enough, a few hours later, I came back in my little Honda, picked him up and he was jumping out of an airplane and we were going over the sky and he then got out of addiction, got moved into a housing, got his life turned around and all he needed was a spark to realize life can be fun again. Wow.
That's powerful. And we talked about this, Jimmy, but you've got to have the margin to be generous.
You've got to have your eyes up looking for opportunity instead of looking inward, stressed about your own life. And that's part of why you follow the Ramsey plan.
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. You know, yeah, having your fist like this with money in it, you know, obviously if God tries giving you something, it'll just hit the ground.
And so when you're generous and give to people, God can also bless you more. And so that's just how it works.
And yeah, when you live within your means, you don't buy stupid stuff, you save your money, you can give to other people. And that's just something that will never get old.
And yeah, whether you've've got a million dollars in your bank account to bless someone and get them a new car or just like the poor widow and the Bible and all you got is a coin, heaven is moved by generosity, and it'll make your heart come alive when you do it. Wow.
Wow. So Instagram and TikTok sensation, Jimmy Darts is with us.
At Jimmy Darts is where you pick him up. You guys got to watch these videos.
They'll make you work your tail off to get your act together. So you've got some money.
You'll live like no one else. So later you can live and give like no one else.
They'll they'll they're inspiring. It's really, really inspiring.
We talked about, you know, I love the Rachel Cruz quote, give a little until you can give a lot. And so what Jimmy's doing with even the GoFundMe, I might only have a few bucks to give to this campaign, but what we're doing as a community to change someone's life is powerful and it makes you want to give more.
Generosity is addictive. Yeah, absolutely.
Generosity is addictive. And yeah, I mean, if all you have is a couple of dollars to give, what's worth a couple of bucks? A coffee.
If all you have in your budget is ten dollars a month to give away and you buy a stranger a cup of coffee every month might be outside of your comfort zone but it's gonna it's gonna blow them away because when's the last time someone bought you in the line a coffee in line i can't remember that happened to me so probably dave ramsey it probably was in the lobby here but yeah that's why we give away free coffee oh man it's powerful and you've got a lot going on jimmy you've got your kindness challenge cards people should check out and it's kind of a scratch off you can do with your own family your own friends help strangers out so everyone needs to go check out jimmy on instagram tiktok youtube at jimmy darts you're an inspiration man i'm honored to know you thank you couldn't have done it with all you guys or i'd probably be in debt over my ears so yeah i I got a feeling you're going to be okay, brother. I'm proud of you.
It's good work you're doing. Thanks for hanging out with us.
We appreciate you. Thanks so much.
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George Camel, Ramsey personality is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions

on the debt-free stage. Jill is with us.

Hi, Jill.

How are you?

I'm good, Dave.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

Where do you live?

Atlanta, Georgia.

All right.

Welcome to Nashville.

How much debt have you paid off?

$102,000.

Good for you.

How long did that take?

About 27 months.

Good for you.

And your range of income during that time?

Started at around $60,000 and ended up at $124,000. Cool.
Good for you. Well done.
What kind of debt was the $102,000? Let's see. About $11,000 in credit cards, about $9,000 in medical bills and some IRS debt, and then $82,000 in student loan.
Wow. You were kind of normal.
Yes. Not fun.
No, it was not. Wow.
Okay. So what happened two years and some change ago that was your wake up call and you said, we're going to get out of this and doing this Ramsey stuff.
How'd that all happen? Tell us your story. Yeah.
So actually my story starts back in 2018. I was working full time and decided I want to go to graduate school.
But even then I told myself, I'm not going to take any more student loan. If I'm going to go to school, I have to pay for this in cash.
And then that fall, my church was hosting FPU. And I said, yes, this is my chance to make sure I'm doing this right and not have to take out any loan and just make this whole process a little bit easier.
So I did that, and I can tell you, Dave, I completely, 100% cash flowed my master's program. Yeah okay step one.
Yes got that done. What's your master's in? Nutrition and dietetics.
Good for you. Okay good.
Yes so then later the end of 2019 due to some contract changes all the dieticians and myself we were all let go from our hospital and so starting 2020 i had started a new job and then we all know what happened in 2020 um code happened and so i just kind of went in survival mode i had finished paying that last semester of grad school and so i just wanted to save because i had just lost my job recently you know i didn't know what was going to happen with covid so i just kind of just started saving and just you know continue to to work some side hustles and some side gigs just to see you know didn't know what was going to happen with COVID so I just kind of just started saving and just you know continued to work some side hustles and some side gigs just to see you know kind of what happened uh so once I got settled in my job and you know I kind of built up some savings all right let's get this started again so I tackled the medical medical bills and the credit card debt on about 10 months wow yeah um and then so I so I was like, okay, I can breathe a second. I've, I've paid off some of these, some of these big ones.
All I have left is the student loan. So at that time I decided to move to Atlanta for a new job opportunity, pay raise, all that kind of stuff.
And then I was like, okay, we're settled. Let's do this.
But the thing, Dave, is my student loans were private. So while everyone else's student loans were on pause, the interest, payments, all that, this whole time might have been going.
And so I could have paused my loans, but I was like, the interest is still going to go. I just can't take this anymore.
It is keeping me from having time to do what I want. I'm working all these jobs.
I can't stay for a house. I can't have a car emergency, nothing.
And so I was like, okay, we're doing this. This is the Goliath I'm looking at.
Let's go. Let's do it.
So January of 23, I put my foot on the gas pedal and had a full-time job, two part-time jobs, two other side hustles. I was doing 60, 70, sometimes 80 hours a week trying to pay this off.
And then my church in Atlanta did FPU again. And so I was like, okay, this is step, baby step three is actually in sight.
Like I'm getting so close. I'm in like the last six miles of this marathon.
Like I can do this. So I had a great support system went through that and then in may

of this year i made my final student loan payment wow way to go that's definitely putting your foot on the gas to the finish through the tape she wins i like it doubled your income i did you went all right i'm going to sacrifice for a short time so that i can be done with this faster and it worked worked. It did.
It did. So that was hard.

It was.

Was it worth it?

Oh, 100%.

100%.

You're free now.

I am.

I am.

I finally have time to do the things I want to do,

get more involved in my church,

investing in people,

and just being able to live.

It's very freeing.

Yeah, I guess.

Congratulations. Thank you.
So proud of you. Who was cheering you on? Oh, man.
My parents first. First of all, when I made that last student loan payment, I had them on FaceTime.
And they were with me when I hit send or hit pay, and we all just cried. I love it.
It was great. My aunts and uncles,-workers are amazing.
When I paid off my debt, they had a little party for me, had a little banner made that said Jill is debt-free. Friends, family, it's been amazing.
And being somebody who's single, it was important to me to kind of have that support and accountability. I couldn't have done it without them.
Wow. Yeah, you brought a crowd with you just to support you.
You got your own posse over here, which is awesome. And that is huge for folks that are single out there because it's so much harder when you don't have that built-in accountability of a spouse.
Correct. So I'm proud of you.
Thanks. Did people think you were crazy? Oh, yes.
People were like, well, why are you paying this off? Like, you need to be investing. And I said, well, these student loans, this is keeping me from investing in my my future and this is keeping me from living um and I'm doing it this way and here I am on the Dave Ramsey show I love it you did it very very cool good stuff so what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is you are very successful at it uh yeah so first and foremost my faith in Jesus Christ um is what helped me get through it.
Having that great support system to help keep me accountable. And then when I got to the student loan part, I was at $82,000.
And I was like, okay, so I made some payments, got into the 70s. And I was like, okay, how fast can I get to the 60s? And then I just kept going.
So I made it a game. And I took the power back that that debt had over me and made it how fast can I do this and that really changed my mindset so changing that mindset and having that support system is huge taking the power back it really does come down to hope it does I can you know when you take the power back that means that you now see that this is possible ding ding hope kicks in belief kicks in and then you then you don't even feel the sacrifice then because like you said it's a game i'm sprinting to the finish line i see the tape yes i'm in pain but i can see the tape i did where this is not forever it's not no discipline seems pleasant at the time but it yields a harvest of righteousness well done young lady well done very well done now you're free how's it feel well Dave you know how you tell people when they pay their house off the grass feels different Dave buying groceries feels different now being able to say yes to trips or friends are going to this restaurant this new place open in Atlanta let's all go like being able to say yes to that uh just being able to change like my priorities and my time it's just it's been amazing deleting the student loan app off my phone was huge oh yes yes that was a moment you are now done I like it never again will i go back worst app ever do

not recommend zero stars wow zero stars oh that is incredible so what's next for you

uh obviously coming to nashville my family we're all going to texas next month to celebrate another

family member's birthday um so i got to do that and i was recently promoted i'm a registered

dietitian and i was promoted to clinical nutrition manager uh somehow i'm not shocked

I'm not going toitian and I was promoted to clinical nutrition manager. Uh, somehow I'm not shocked.
Yeah. In the midst of working your tail off, they go, Hey, she's a hard worker.
Let's give her the job. Yes.
Yes. God was just blessing that, that student loan balance coming down.
The job opportunity came in. I finally got to get rid of some of these side hustles and it's just, I'm just excited what God has in the future.
Yeah, it's going to be big. It's going to be amazing.
We want to bless you. We've got two EveryDollar yearly subscriptions for you.
You can use them, pass them on to someone to kickstart their journey as well. Yeah, way to go.
Thank you. How old are you? 36.
Yeah, there's no stopping you. There's no stopping you.
You're wide open. I bet you were wide open when you were a little kid mom yeah mom's shaking her head yeah okay yeah it's kind of a rachel cruise thing right there yeah rachel was wide open when she was a little kid i mean we talked i told sharon i said we're going to point this one at something she's going to go off you've got to use these powers for good yeah that's it you're something else you're amazing i'm so proud of you.
Thanks, Dave. Very, very well done.
I'm glad I made you proud.

All right.

Jill is in Atlanta, Georgia.

She paid off $102,000, 82 of which was those dastardly student loons.

27 months, she did it, making 60 to 124.

Lots of work.

Count it down.

Let's hear a debt-free scream.

Three, two, one. I'm debt-free scream three two one i'm debt free yeah baby that's how it works around these parts this is the ramsey show listen i know a lot of you would rather watch paint dry in slow motion than file your taxes But thankfully, you don't have to dread Ramsey SmartTax, you can save up to 70% compared to other tax software out there.
It's a no-brainer. Just go to RamseySolutions.com slash SmartTax and see how simple tax filing can be.
That's RamseySolutions.com slash SmartTax. Well, we just launched a brand new tour.
Me and Dr. John Deloney are hitting the road and coming to a city near you on the Money and Relationships Tour.
We're putting a whole new twist on these live events. You, the audience that have bought tickets, are going to shape the conversation that we have each night.
At each stop on the tour, you get to select the topics that matter most to you in the pre-show, and then we're going to design the show right before we walk out.

Whether it's budgeting or relationship dynamics or achieving your financial goals, whatever the question is, you get to choose the topic, and that's what we're going to do. We're going to be in Louisville April 21st, in Durham April 23rd, Atlanta April 25th, Phoenix May 5th, Fort Worth May 7th and Kansas, May 9th.
Dave Ramsey, Dr. John Deloney, live in person in those cities on that date.
You're going to laugh. You're going to cry.
You're going to learn. And we're going to do some Q&A.
We're going to have – it's going to be very, very interactive, a way different kind of live event for the Ramsey Bunch. If you're tuning in on YouTube or podcast,

you can click the link in the show notes or you can go to ramseysolutions.com slash tour and get your tickets right now. Cindy is with us.
Cindy is in Orlando. Hi, Cindy.
How are you?

Hi, thank you for taking my call. Sure.
What's up?

So we, my husband and I are on baby step three, but six months ago, he lost his job.

Thank you. you michael sure what's up so um we my husband and i are on baby step three but six months ago he lost his job and we're trying to figure out did we get rid of the life insurance the umbrella um to help with everything or do we want to keep those things um on our budget why isn't he working?

He was laid off.

He's in sales, and he's been trying.

And praise God, he's been humbled.

So he's been trying everything, and now he's even taking classes.

And we only have the one car because we went Gazelle Intense.

So the car that we have for, like, Lyft, I think it's too old, the year of it.

What was he doing when he got laid off?

Sales.

Sales.

Selling what?

Software.

Software sales.

Why did he get laid off? I think, like, production- like production based like if you don't hit a quota. So he wasn't making sales.
Okay. What kind of income was he making? $50,000.
Okay. And so what's he want to do with his life now? For the unemployment, he's doing the cybersecurity.
He's taking the classes for that. He's taking classes for what? Cybersecurity.
Cybersecurity. Yes.
What do you make? 73. Okay.
So you've been living off of your 73, but you're also trying to build up this emergency fund. And he's not creating any income at all? Unfortunately, no.
Okay. What did he make his last year in sales? What did he make in sales? You said 50K? Yeah, he made 50.
All together, we did 130 in our taxes last year. So he made like $30,000 in sales.
How many kids do you all have? Two. How old is he? And one's in daycare.
How old is he? He's 41. Okay.
All right. Well, there's, here's the thing.
When you are, when you have zero income coming in and you go for a job interview, you walk differently and your voice tone is different than if you have income coming in. Right? And so the fact that he's doing nothing is not helping him land a position.
So I would prefer that he cut grass and drive Uber 80 hours a week, clean toilets, whatever he has to do to get some income coming in and actually put his hand to something other than youtube or whatever he's spending his days on these days he really needs to get to work for his own sake and that's going to make him more employable at one of these other jobs. It's not that he's lacking a class.

If he wants to take a cybersecurity class at night

while he's working full-time during the day, that's fine.

But sitting on his butt taking one class or two classes is not cool.

Y'all are broke.

You said he was humbled, but I think we've got more to go.

We need to swallow our pride and go do something. I don't really care to care if he's humble i what i want to do is go to work i understand yeah my grandmother used to say there's a great place to go when you're broke to work so yeah i mean and here's the thing he's got i don't i don't what i don't i don't care if he takes a career job until he gets a career job okay but i want him to do anything he can do to go make some money and what that does is it gives him dignity and it gives him purpose and believe it or not it gives you energy when you're working hard and then when you walk in to a job interview you got a little swagger instead of your head hung down and your lip stuck out.
They can smell desperation.

Yeah.

Every human can smell it.

We see the body language.

We see the pacing in your voice, the tone, the energy level.

The eyes are lit up or they're glazed over.

Which is it?

And all of these things happen.

And the guy you're describing to me right now is not going to survive a good interview.

Understood. If he got one.
How many interviews has he actually been on? Two. In six months? Yes.
Okay. So sometimes what happens when we get fired, which is what really happened because he didn't make his sales, then it takes some of your dignity and some of your self-confidence, some of your mojo.
So I think you encouraging him to go be somebody is going to be really good for him. It's not nagging him.
It's lifting him up. So I'm going to be his coach at halftime and go, we're behind behind and you've got the stuff i want you to get up in the morning and shave and put on nice clothes like you're going to work oh and by the way go ahead and go to work while you're doing that yeah and i don't care if you're serving at a restaurant i don't care if you're delivering pizza i don't care if you're uber eats i don't care if you're cutting grass i don't care if you're working.
You can get a job in the net by the end of the week doing one of those things or all of those things. And believe me, Orlando needs the help.
There's people in Orlando need help. Get you a leaf blower from Home Depot.
Rich people are afraid of leaves. And so, you know, that kind of stuff, right? So, I mean, go, go do something because what that does is it gets you up off the, the, the pity party that we all, I went through that when I went broke, it took my confidence.
Like when you get fired, it took my confidence and it took me a while to get, and, and I was, but I had two little babies and I didn't have a choice. I had to go make something cause we were starving to death.
And so I went out there and did anything I could do for a period of time until I could get the income moving again. And that, and then with that came my confidence, it came back and slowly the more I did it.
And so, um, you know, I hope that's all it is with him. I hope he's not lazy, but I, I,.
Most people struggle with hope. He's probably not a lazy guy, but he probably just doesn't feel great about him.
You're over there making money. He got fired.
And so I want him to get back out there and get back out in the marketplace, get back up at the plate, start swinging the bat again. And I'm going to send you Ken Coleman's two books, Proximity Principle and Paycheck to Purpose, and tell him to get on KenColeman.com and start using that proximity principle to get some positions and get some things moving.
He's got to get an income moving. That'll help your household and help the mathematics, but more importantly, it'll help his mental state.
That's right. And to answer your question, do not cut your life insurance and umbrella.
Like, you to keep the defense there while you're playing offense. So you need to find spending cuts somewhere else.
Don't, don't, you don't have to do spending cuts, increase your income. He needs to go make some money.
He can make three or $4,000 a month falling off a log, man. I mean, he can almost get his old income back, you know, really.
I mean, the number of people we talk to that make 1500 bucks a week delivering pizzas right now. There's excuse i mean you can do there's people there's a shortage you can do anything to go make money so and and there's a shortage of everything out there right now people that will work show up that have bathed and smile i mean it's amazing they'll pay you you can get a job and so And so I want him to go do something for him because I kind of smell that.
I remember how that felt. It wasn't a good feeling.
And I want better for him. And with that goes better for you, hon.
This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, you're still here? What are you doing? You do know that the rest of today's show is playing right now over on the Ramsey Network app, right? All you got to do to finish the episode is search Ramsey Network in the App Store, Google Play Store, or just click the link in the show notes to download the app for

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