Don't Take Financial Advice From Broke People

Speaker 1 This is the Ramsey Show, where we help you win in your life. We want you to win with your money.
We want you to win in your work. We want you to win with your relationships.

Speaker 1 Triple 8-825-5225 is the phone number to jump in. We'd love to coach you up.
Alongside George Camille, I'm Ken Coleman. And if you've got questions about your money,

Speaker 1 we'd love those. You've got questions about your work.
How about the income? I want more income. I want to start something.
Should I do it?

Speaker 1 George and I will take those questions as well as we team up. So

Speaker 1 I need to point out George is playing hurt today.

Speaker 1 I'm so proud of him. He's hustling.
He's so brave.

Speaker 1 He's not feeling well. He's not under the weather, but you're flirting with it.

Speaker 2 It's just, I think I didn't play in the dirt enough as a kid.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 You can look at me and guess that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but you're playing hurt.

Speaker 2 I'm proud of you. We're going to make it.

Speaker 1 He's got the sinus issue.

Speaker 2 I'm doing this for America.

Speaker 1 How's your throat?

Speaker 2 I think we're going to be all right. Okay.
I sound okay.

Speaker 1 I think you sound great. So we're cheering for George today.

Speaker 2 You look good in that half the battle.

Speaker 1 That's debatable. But he's going to give you his all.
I know that. And George and I have a lot of fun.

Speaker 1 If you're new to us, know that we're going to give you the same answers and coaching you're used to, but we're going to have fun. At least we're going to try today.

Speaker 2 The more you say it, the less I believe you. So let's prove it to him.

Speaker 1 Oh, I see. Well, boy, you got the snark already.
Yeah. Okay.
That's why people come for George. All right.
Amber's up in Houston, Texas. Amber, how can we help?

Speaker 3 Hi, how are y'all?

Speaker 1 Good. How are you doing?

Speaker 3 Good, good.

Speaker 3 Okay, so I own a home. I purchased it five and a half years ago.
I purchased it because I was pregnant with my son.

Speaker 3 And at the time, my son's father and I, we were just dating. We never married.

Speaker 3 I

Speaker 3 somehow got him on the deed of the home unknowingly at the time that that's what was happening I asked the lender if he could be on the house in some way she added him to the deed I did not realize that until two years in when I refinanced my house and we were at the time ending our relationship he moved out and he has

Speaker 3 held the deed over my head since then and will not take his name off.

Speaker 3 So it's been a few years since we've separated and we went through custody court and he told me that if I gave him full custody of our son, he would take his name off the house and I would owe him no money.

Speaker 3 And then we had another mediation and he said if I paid him $100,000, then he would take his name off.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 I'm going to pay him to get off the house, but what I'm trying to understand is how much does he actually get? What is a fair offer? I know it's

Speaker 1 up to you and the lawyers.

Speaker 2 I mean,

Speaker 2 there's no math formula here. You know, what did he put down with the house when you guys bought it? Nothing.
Nothing. So he put down nothing.
Did he make half the mortgage payments?

Speaker 3 He did make half the mortgage payments for the two years he lived there, and he helped pay the taxes for those two years.

Speaker 1 That's what I was doing.

Speaker 3 I have offered him. Yeah, I offered to pay.
He put in about $24,000,

Speaker 3 but he wants $100,000. He said, I will not take anything less.

Speaker 1 Yeah, well, I want to be able to dunk a basketball. There's a lot of things I want in life that I'm not going to get.

Speaker 2 He doesn't get to decide.

Speaker 1 This guy's just a low life.

Speaker 1 He's an absolute scumbag.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 So I said I think it's a fair offer that I give you what you put in.

Speaker 1 It's my best. Has the house appreciated?

Speaker 3 Yes, it has. I bought it.
It was $300,000. Now it's worth about $425,000.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 And after all of your fees, I mean, you could maybe the lawyers decide, all right, he's going to get part of the appreciation on top of what he put in, but no more than that.

Speaker 1 Well, that's not $100,000.

Speaker 3 He's only put in $24,000. I put together a very detailed spreadsheet.
I put down the down payment, the earnest. I've paid everything to get into the home.

Speaker 2 Is your name on the mortgage solely now?

Speaker 3 Yes. He was never on the mortgage.
Okay. He was only on the deed, but he's holding it over me.
And he says, if you're nice to me, I'll take my name off. If you're mean to me, I'm not going to.

Speaker 3 And it's been this back and forth.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's what I want to dive into for just a moment.

Speaker 1 The psychology of this. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Other than just closure and what you've shared so far, is he being on this deed at this moment causing you any other real grief or problems in life?

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 1 How?

Speaker 3 Well, because I want to move forward. I'm in a new relationship and we're planning on getting engaged.

Speaker 3 And, you know, it's really causing a lot of problems in my new relationship by having this tie to my past. Okay.

Speaker 1 And so I was going to tell you to wait him out a little bit because I think this guy's just a scumbag and I think he's trying to bully you. And I think

Speaker 1 100%. I think there's two tactics here.
You know, you just go scorched earth and come with all the records and get in front of a judge and let the judge decide. I think that's probably the one.

Speaker 1 I was going to suggest maybe you wait him out a little bit, but with this new relationship going on, it's

Speaker 1 going to get this guy off and clean him up. So here's the deal.

Speaker 2 We can't help. You're going to need to get in touch with your lawyer.

Speaker 1 Do you have one?

Speaker 3 I've talked talked to three. Okay.
And they told me that we could go and send him a demand letter. And I told him I was going to get an attorney.
He said, I hope that you do.

Speaker 3 And I hope we spend every dollar in equity to pay for these attorneys. And you get nothing.

Speaker 2 Good. Well, when you win, he's going to have to pay the attorney fees.

Speaker 1 That's going to be part of this deal.

Speaker 2 So what you're going to likely go for is a quiet title action, which will resolve this dispute over the property ownership.

Speaker 2 And so that, again, I'm not a lawyer, but that's, I would pursue that action. That's the only way to force him to sign something.

Speaker 3 Yeah, because I do have a lot of evidence. I mean, he, when we went through custody court, he would record conversations that we would have that I did not know.

Speaker 3 And he would talk about the house and said, when I buy my house and I move out, I will sign my name over.

Speaker 3 So I have a lot of evidence to show that he's very much said he would take his name off and wanted no money, you know, tried to bribe me into giving me full custody or giving him full custody of our son.

Speaker 1 That's great.

Speaker 3 It's just been, yeah, it's been a black.

Speaker 1 What are you planning on doing with this current guy? Are you guys going to live in this house? Let's say that you get this ex off of this thing. What's the plan?

Speaker 3 Well, I would like to keep my home.

Speaker 3 You know, it's got great schools. It's a great house.
And so we would like to get him off and then, you know, be able to move forward and make decisions without having to go to closing with him. And,

Speaker 1 you know, I was just curious. I was going to go a different direction if the answer was different, but I'm fine.

Speaker 3 Yeah, so he has a house and he wants to sell his house and pull the equity out of his. And we want to keep mine

Speaker 3 and then, you know, be able to make decisions after that. But yeah, it's just kind of been a headache to be able to make any decisions with him.

Speaker 1 Of the three lawyers, you need to go back and interview them all one more round, and you need to put them under the microscope of what would you do?

Speaker 1 Tell me what your next three steps are, how much time you think that's going to take. Tell them about his threat.

Speaker 1 to try to draw this thing out, which by the way, I think he's full of crap because if he tries to draw you out, he's going to have to pay legal fees. So I wouldn't be scared by this punk.

Speaker 1 This guy's a punk.

Speaker 2 And I'd keep the meticulous records and all the evidence of everything he said he's going to do. Text messages, emails, phone calls.

Speaker 2 This is not going to be fun. I hate you're going through this, but it's part of the messiness, you know, when you get involved with someone you're not married to.

Speaker 2 And I hope you don't repeat that with this next guy. I hope you wait until you're actually married to add him to the mortgage or the deed.

Speaker 1 This needs to turn into a PSA right now, George, for all of the young people that are listening or middle-aged, I guess it doesn't matter how old you are, and you're thinking thinking about buying a house and you think, oh, it doesn't matter to dot the I's and cross the T's, this story, I hate this, that Amber is the poster child for why we say, don't do this.

Speaker 2 I would not buy a house to anyone I'm not married to. Family, friends, boyfriend, girlfriend, if we are not legally, lawfully wedded, no thank you.

Speaker 2 It's going to cause chaos down the line and financial and legal mess. And that's the calls we get on this show.
So if you need any further proof, there it is.

Speaker 1 And if you're a dude out there who thinks that what this guy is doing is okay and you think you want to do this, can I just tell you something? You're a turd.

Speaker 1 And this guy, well,

Speaker 1 this guy needs a visit.

Speaker 2 I can't say it any better.

Speaker 1 This guy needs a visit with me and a wiffleball bat.

Speaker 1 Smack him around a little bit. Man, pickleball.
Well, a pickleball pad will do some damage, but not really hurting. This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 The Ramsey Show continues. Thrilled to have you with us alongside George Camille.
I'm Ken Coleman. Triple 888-825-5225 is the phone number to jump in.

Speaker 1 I can't believe I'm saying this,

Speaker 1 but the early Black Friday sale is here. I don't, I'm not, I just don't like where we are at as a culture, to be completely honest, that we got to have an early Black Friday, but here we are.

Speaker 2 We're trying to get it knocked out. You know what I mean? I don't want to be that guy.
Now, if you're shopping on Black Friday, you're too late.

Speaker 1 See, there's the problem.

Speaker 1 This is a sign of the apocalypse.

Speaker 1 At what point now we go past early Black Friday?

Speaker 2 Have you seen the movie with Arnold Schwarzenegger and he's trying to get the toy for his kid? Yeah. That's what I feel like is happening in today's world.

Speaker 1 It really is. So, hey, Ramsey Solutions didn't start the problem, but we're going to meet you where you are.
So, we've got an early Black Friday sale. You can tell I'm thrilled about it.

Speaker 1 We get your hardcover books

Speaker 1 for only $12. The audio books for only $8.
That's a really good deal.

Speaker 1 For instance, Money's on a Math Problem by our friend Jade Warshaw is on sale right now. Total Money Makeover, the OG, is on sale.
And so many more great books. Go to ramseysolutions.com slash store

Speaker 1 to check out all the Christmas deals. Ramseysolutions.com slash store.
You can click the link in the show notes if you are on YouTube or podcast.

Speaker 2 Love the show notes. Lots of goodies down there.

Speaker 1 Lots of good things in the show notes. Let's go to Raleigh, North Carolina.
Kennedy is joining us there. Kennedy, how can we help?

Speaker 3 Hey, how are y'all doing?

Speaker 1 Well, we're having a blast. What's going on with you?

Speaker 3 Good. So what I asked the girl when she called was, I just graduated last October with my cosmetology license.

Speaker 3 And you guys may know or like your wives, like it takes a while for like a clientele to build up. So you're not like a guaranteed paycheck, you know, every two weeks, once a month.

Speaker 3 You're kind of just stepping out, especially me as a Christian, just stepping out in faith, just knowing that I'm going to have clients this week.

Speaker 3 that are going to pop up that I didn't know I have scheduled on Monday.

Speaker 3 So to know how to budget, but not having a set paycheck for tithes, groceries, rent for the salon, rent for my house, because me and my sister are just going to move out, just coming up Saturday into a house right down the road for my parents.

Speaker 3 So learning just how to budget everything, but also I don't know what I'm making, you know, one week to the next.

Speaker 1 How long have you been doing hair?

Speaker 3 Full-time since March. So I started renting.
The rent is $4.50. I have a girl that rents the other slots.
I rent the whole building.

Speaker 3 She gives me $300 a month, so I just have to pay $150 out of pocket. So I've been paying that since two months ago, but I've been doing hair since early March.

Speaker 1 So what have you been averaging since early March? What have you been averaging income? What's that look like?

Speaker 3 I wouldn't say that it would go over $600 from the salon that I make each month. So I would say somewhere between like $450, $550.

Speaker 3 Some months it can be closer to a $600.

Speaker 1 How are you surviving?

Speaker 1 Have you made it since March? That's well below poverty level.

Speaker 3 It is well below. So my rent, like I told you, the rent for that place is $150.
So I've been living at home. My car is paid for.
I don't have any payments that are going out.

Speaker 3 So just moving out, my rent each month is, I know you guys are going to laugh.

Speaker 3 My rent is $3.75 for the house and $150 for the salon. Mama and Daddy told me, they said, I know that you don't have enough for it, but because of the house, it was a good friend of my dad.

Speaker 3 My dad wants to eventually buy it. So he said, if you, you know, budget and you're smart with it, he said, me and mama got this wherever there's any lack.

Speaker 3 But he said, if you and Saylor want to move out, he said, I think it would be a good idea.

Speaker 3 He said, if you guys would like to go ahead and go, and we'll cover everything else, you know, as long as you guys aren't out shopping and blowing it up.

Speaker 2 You're saying mommy and daddy are going to pay your rent if you move out?

Speaker 1 They'll pay $1,200?

Speaker 3 No, so I don't pay $1,200.

Speaker 1 I'm saying if you moved out. No, she's already told you.
They've moved into a house. That's $375.
That was a friend of their dad's, and the rent's $375 for both you and your sister.

Speaker 3 Yes, sir.

Speaker 1 All right, but still,

Speaker 1 I mean, sweetheart, you've put lipstick on a pig. I mean, I'm telling you.

Speaker 1 You're still absolutely, you had no money, even with that rosy picture you just gave us.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 I don't, I mean, I feel like it's the wrong, I mean, George, I want you to answer a question, but

Speaker 1 you got to do something in the meantime because there's not much here to budget.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I can teach you how to budget with an irregular income, but right now, like Ken's saying, it's not enough to pay the bills. And so we need to get something more stable.

Speaker 2 Because right now, let me tell you the math on this. You are making $3 an hour.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Three.

Speaker 2 Count that three.

Speaker 2 Yeah. There is no job in America paying $3 an hour.
You somehow found it. And so you need to go get other jobs while you get clientele.

Speaker 2 And if that means word of mouth and I get them on a schedule, great. But we're not going to sit around the salon for seven hours a day hoping we get a single client.

Speaker 1 Yeah. You would be better off.

Speaker 1 Go ahead. Sorry.

Speaker 3 I do have a part-time job, so I work at a grill that is right down the road. So my salon, we're out in the country.

Speaker 3 So I work at a grill that's on the other little small town in between my house and the salon.

Speaker 1 Well, how much money are you making off of that?

Speaker 3 That's no more than $120 once a week.

Speaker 1 Again, you are

Speaker 2 one shift at the grill is going to pay the bill.

Speaker 1 Kenny, there's nothing funny about this. And you are

Speaker 1 broken up. You are chuckling your head off on the other end of the phone.
And I don't know how to say, sweetheart, like,

Speaker 1 this is awful. You need to make more money.

Speaker 1 You're not making any money at all.

Speaker 2 Is anyone doing salon work full-time in your area?

Speaker 3 Well, the girl that rents it for me, she just graduated too. So we're both quote-unquote full-time, but building clientele.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but you just told us

Speaker 1 you live in this little teeny tiny area out in the middle of the sticks. Is that what I heard?

Speaker 3 Not in the middle of sticks, but it definitely is not like

Speaker 3 I'm about an hour and a half from Raleigh, more towards the beach. So it is a small town, but it's not out in the sticks, but it is definitely a small town.

Speaker 1 I apologize. I was a little loose with my description.

Speaker 3 No, you can say, no, you can say small town.

Speaker 1 Point is that

Speaker 1 I think you need to be moving into Raleigh and get yourself a full-time job at a very successful salon.

Speaker 1 Like, you've got to make some moves because I just don't know how much clientele you can build in this little place that you're at. Am I right? Yes, sir.

Speaker 3 Without, yeah, without, well, that's what I'm doing.

Speaker 1 We gotta steal everybody else's, and now we don't want to, well, I'll tell you what, I can't imagine that would go over well in a store. I'll tell you what my barber did, Kennedy.

Speaker 2 You work for a place that's booming, you build up your clientele there, and then eventually you can go out on your own, and those people will follow you. Yes, sir.
That's what I did when he kicked.

Speaker 2 He started off on his own, left his old place that was kind of giving him leads, if you will, giving him the clientele. And then he moved out.
And so that's what I think you need to do.

Speaker 2 We need to stair-step this into just going, well, hopefully I'll have, you know, 70 people on the books in a few months because

Speaker 2 it's been a while. It's been six months and we're still making a few hundred bucks a month.

Speaker 1 Yeah, could you do anything else besides cutting hair? Like, can you do nails? Like, who's doing nails in that little town?

Speaker 3 Well, there's nobody that does nails. And people, they've asked me, they're like, would you do that? I know I could, even though that's not like people get their nails done

Speaker 1 once a week, We've got ourselves Kennedy. I threw that out there as a Hail Mary.
And I threw a touchdown pass. Start a nail salon this afternoon or do it in your living room for crying out loud.

Speaker 1 Little small town, these women need their nails done. We're talking hands and feet.

Speaker 1 That's money.

Speaker 3 Yes, sir.

Speaker 1 So if you can do it, do it. Like, my point is, what you're hearing from George and I is they appreciate the budget question,

Speaker 1 but in order to make a budget budget work, we must have something to have income.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I would start doing nails.

Speaker 1 And if I could be the person in your little town that does nails, then I can grow the hair thing too.

Speaker 1 But boy, oh, boy.

Speaker 2 And this is a word-of-mouth business. So maybe you do a referral bonus if they send somebody to the business.

Speaker 1 When you go in your town to get their nails done.

Speaker 3 Well, where I'm at, that's where they all come. So the closest town

Speaker 3 would then be maybe driving 20, 25 minutes.

Speaker 3 so i got some lady who retired i got some of her clients but she had a couple girls in there before me but because they would all quit and leave then all her clients because she had a good amount of people probably you know she was booked up she told me she was booked up every day so i believe her well again

Speaker 1 your first reaction was priceless you said people have told me i need to do nails so i think we just found the next business for you and then you can expand

Speaker 2 unless you move away yes sir right now you don't have the luxury of doing whatever we've got to find the thing that's going to pay the bills. Then we can expand.

Speaker 1 I tell you what, if I lived in that area,

Speaker 1 I would invest in her. I'd go, what does it cost? What do we cost? What do we need? What's the startup? How much nail polish would we need to buy, Kelly, to get started? I'd want to know.

Speaker 1 And I'd go, we're starting it today. What do we need? A couple chairs? I'm going to buy the chairs.

Speaker 2 I need a little tub with some water.

Speaker 1 A tub with water? The manny pedties. I don't know what my wife does.
I got to ask Stacey, but I think I would go, let's start it right now. Ken goes more.

Speaker 2 Stacy. I think we can all.
True story.

Speaker 1 Stacy has talked me into a couple pedicures.

Speaker 2 Change your life.

Speaker 1 I don't like it. This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to The Ramsey Show alongside George Campbell. I'm Ken Coleman.
Excited to have you here with us, folks. Triple 8-825-5225.

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Speaker 2 Today's question comes from Claire in Illinois. My mom has asked me to pay $20,000 of her Parent Plus loan.

Speaker 2 My parents had planned to pay a good portion of my school debt so I can be financially independent and set for my future.

Speaker 2 As I was going into my last year of college, I paused school to take care of my dad, who was ill. I also worked to save money to go back to school.

Speaker 2 My dad passed away, and things have changed for us financially. He was the breadwinner, and my mom stayed home.
She does not have a very well-paying job now and has additional debt of about $60,000.

Speaker 2 I still owe $10,000 on my student loans. She also wants to charge me rent while living with her after graduation.

Speaker 2 I have a job ready once I get my degree, but I was hoping to live at home to get my financial situation set for my future. The average income for the career I'm pursuing will be $45 to $60K.

Speaker 2 Am I wrong to ask her to pay her portion?

Speaker 2 Whoo, loaded question here.

Speaker 2 Man, there's been some trauma to the family.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it feels like there's a lot of tension. There was a lot of planned.

Speaker 2 My parents had planned. We planned.
We planned. Well, dad passed away.
The plans changed.

Speaker 2 And now mom is asking you to pay for this parent-plus loan they took out for you. And the parent-plus loans are tricky because parents are co-signing for their kids with a very high interest rate.

Speaker 2 And so they are very difficult to pay off. And if you didn't agree ahead of time on who's going to pay, it gets messy.
So it sounds like they said, hey, we'll do the parent-plus loan.

Speaker 2 We'll take care of it. Now mom is in a different situation.
She's broke and stressed. And so I think, you know what? We go, mom, I'm going to take this on my shoulders.

Speaker 2 It may set me back for where I wanted to go, but it's the right thing to do for the family. Yeah.
That's my take.

Speaker 2 As the daughter, I'm going to go, all right, this was a loan for me for my degree. You're probably going to be making more money than mom is.

Speaker 1 So I would just go, all right, I'm going to pay my share as i can i agree i don't i wouldn't disagree at all i think now the tension about i wanted to live home and not pay rent mom's making me pay rent i would also you know get over that too because if mom if mom wasn't there you didn't have that supposed safety net you'd have to be paying rent so mom's not a punishment it sounds like mom needs the money i agree all this is going to require some mature conversation for sure so interesting stuff man

Speaker 2 also reminder for everyone out there get term life insurance in place today

Speaker 2 i know,

Speaker 2 listen, there's no stat Ken that says you have a higher chance of dying if you get term life insurance in place. There's no correlation.

Speaker 2 So get it in place because you don't know what life's going to throw at you, and it can cause a really difficult situation for your family if you do pass away.

Speaker 2 So 10 to 12 times your annual income, a 15, 20-year term should do it to get you self-insured by then. And head to xander.com and they can help you get that set up.

Speaker 1 All right. Triple 8-825-5225 is the phone number.
Back to the phones. Paige is joining us now in Grand Rapids, Michigan.
Paige, how can we help?

Speaker 3 Hi, Jersey Ken.

Speaker 3 Yes, I wanted to reach out. I just started my journey.
I just got introduced to the Ramsey Show and everything. So I'd like to start my journey, pay off debt.

Speaker 3 The only problem, you know, I have a question and possibly asking for some guidance here.

Speaker 3 How should I introduce this goal, you know, of being debt-free to my husband? He is a farmer. We both work full-time.
He's also, you know, a farmer outside of work.

Speaker 3 And that tends to be

Speaker 3 him purchasing a lot of tractors, parts, any equipment to the farm.

Speaker 2 And he's going into debt for this?

Speaker 3 Currently, he only has one loan out for a tractor, but he likes to purchase a lot of the older tractors

Speaker 3 that need a little work.

Speaker 2 How much is he making off of this farm?

Speaker 3 That I do not know.

Speaker 1 I have a sense

Speaker 1 that you guys have separate finances.

Speaker 3 What's that?

Speaker 1 I have a sense that you guys have separate finances. You got your accounts and he has his accounts.
Am I right?

Speaker 3 That's partially true. Yeah, we do have a joint account that we kind of just throw money into.

Speaker 2 The joint account is, here's what I'm comfortable sharing as part of my life. And then you have separate accounts that go, this is none of your business.

Speaker 1 Right?

Speaker 1 I'm my own man. I mean,

Speaker 3 I'm pretty open and honest with the stuff that I have. I don't really have much I have.

Speaker 1 But he's not.

Speaker 3 And then a card.

Speaker 1 He's not. Yeah.
You just told us he was. A little bit more.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.
And you're just chuckling, just like, this is just fantastic.

Speaker 2 This is normal. Everything's fine.

Speaker 1 My husband's not telling me what he's got in his account.

Speaker 2 I don't know how much debt he has. I don't know what he makes.
And I'm on my journey.

Speaker 1 You said my journey.

Speaker 2 That sounds like a solo journey. You're about to go eat, pray, love while he does his thing.

Speaker 1 Yeah, Paige, we are not. George and I are, but well, George is in a bad mood, but he's always in a slightly bad mood.
I'm in a cantankerous mood. I'm in a a great mood today.

Speaker 1 We're not trying to be dark, but there's nothing funny about what you're telling us. Right.
Nothing. No, it's the hard truth, really.
And I think you're laughing not because you think it's funny.

Speaker 1 I think you're straight up worried about it and you're nervous. So, first of all, welcome.

Speaker 2 I also laugh to numb the pain.

Speaker 1 Right. I get it.

Speaker 1 My therapist is saying the same thing to me before. Do you find that funny? Right.
And then I immediately start sobbing. And yeah.
But, you know, here's the point, Paige.

Speaker 1 I'm trying to kind of get your attention.

Speaker 1 So glad you called us.

Speaker 1 The heart of the question is, how do I introduce this to him?

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 you're going to have to introduce this to him, not as a demand, because you guys are already literally on separate pages. And so I think this has got to be a secondary conversation, George.

Speaker 1 My take is we bring up the Ramsey Way and all that as a secondary item to what what we believe is fundamentally the most important conversation.

Speaker 1 And I might suggest marriage counseling on this, even if he doesn't feel like, and you don't have to go, hey, I'm leaving you, and you're not threatening anything. And I don't sense that from you.

Speaker 1 You're a very sweet person. I think you're a very positive person.
But I think this has to be a, hey, you know what? I'm rethinking some stuff and blame it on us.

Speaker 1 Say, I started listening to the Ramsey show

Speaker 1 and I actually called.

Speaker 1 And these guys, George and Ken, said that they have for decades through through this company and through this program, recommended that married people have joint finances. And here's the reason why.

Speaker 1 And do we have an article or something, George, that we could give her?

Speaker 1 I know we've got some resources that we could give her to where she could kind of read it and set her up for the conversation. But I would like to give her that if we can do that.

Speaker 1 And Kelly will help you with that, I'm sure, in

Speaker 1 some way. But I think that's the first part of the conversation, George.
What do you think?

Speaker 2 Well, you want to lead, like Ken said, you don't want to be on the attack. He's going to shut down like he probably has before.

Speaker 2 And so you want to lead with I statements and then with we statements, not with you. Hey, you need to be more transparent.
I don't know what's going on with this farm.

Speaker 2 You need to say, I don't feel safe financially. I don't know what's going on financially.
And I think we could do better as a family. I want to see us build wealth.

Speaker 2 I want to see us have margin and options and freedom. And to me, that means debt freedom.
And I've been following these folks at Ramsey, and it's a common sense show.

Speaker 2 And if you're a farmer, you're probably a common sense kind of guy.

Speaker 2 So I would try to level with him in the language he understands and then go into, I've been learning about ways we could handle money that make life a lot easier. Can I show you the plan?

Speaker 2 And maybe you watch a video, maybe you read a book, you know, my book, Breaking Free from Broke, or go through Financial Peace University and go, what do you think about this?

Speaker 2 And start the conversation. It's where you leave it open instead of a tight, angry conversation.
But you also need to lead with the why. Why do you want to do this?

Speaker 2 What is the emotion that's underpinning all this? And if he loves you, he better care when he sees you opening up about this and i assume he does

Speaker 2 yeah okay yeah then it becomes okay what's the game plan now we both agreed this is where we're at this is the reality this is where we want to go and now we seem to align that this is the best plan to get there that part's easier okay it's the first part that's going to be more difficult these hard conversations where he's tended to shut down let's load him up shall we george here's what i'm thinking i'm thinking financial peace let's get them get them connected 100 in that let's get them breaking fee from broke your your great book Let's also do the OG, Total Money Makeover.

Speaker 1 And the reason we want to give you these things, Paige, is because if you just start going, hey, I'm reading this and I'm watching this YouTube video and you share with him, he may think it's a fad or bad pizza.

Speaker 1 But if you continue to bring it up and talk about it as a part of this, hey, I want us to get on the same page.

Speaker 1 Here's why, I think that's going to lead to the ultimate conversation, which is you don't want to have any debt. So hang on the line.
Kelly's going to take really good care of you.

Speaker 1 Paige, we're excited to have you here. Stay with it.
Don't guilt him. Don't nag him.
Just dive into it, and I think he'll get to it at some point.

Speaker 1 I think he's a common sense guy, and I think he'll really eventually get to this point where he goes, oh, this makes a lot of sense. So hang in there.

Speaker 1 All right, quick break, and we'll be right back with more calls. This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Alongside George Camille, I'm Ken Coleman.
Thrilled to have you here.

Speaker 1 We're taking your questions about your money, about your income, your work, moving up, and your relationships. And always thrilled to have you folks with us because we do this show for you.

Speaker 1 Triple eight, eight two five five two two five. Triple eight, eight two five five two two five.
Let's go to Miles in Fresno, California. Miles, how can we help?

Speaker 3 Hey, good afternoon, guys. Hey, I had a quick question about paying off my student loans.
I have about the 55,000 left to pay off. I have the funds.
I just want to pay it all off at once. But

Speaker 3 family members are like, oh, don't do that. Just do big chunks at a time.
But if I have enough cushion after I pay it off, I just want to take care of it.

Speaker 1 Do you have enough cushion?

Speaker 3 Well, I guess

Speaker 3 in my standard, I do. So I think after I pay off my loans, my family and I would have about $35,000 left after that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's no-brainer.

Speaker 2 When you say my family, like, who are these people?

Speaker 3 Oh, my wife, and we have a daughter that's almost two, and then my wife's pregnant pregnant right now.

Speaker 1 No, no, no, no.

Speaker 2 No, I'm saying, you said, who's telling you not to pay it off?

Speaker 1 Is it your wife or like in-laws? No, no, no.

Speaker 3 In-laws, my parents, they say, oh, just do it chunks at a time.

Speaker 1 Okay, follow up.

Speaker 2 Do they pay your bills?

Speaker 1 No, they do not.

Speaker 2 Why are you letting them have a vote in what you do with your money?

Speaker 3 I think I just try to, if a big decision like this, I try to get as much information as possible. And then, you know, sometimes that kind of backfires.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but you know what? The answer is you respect them, and so that's why you called us.

Speaker 1 Presumably, you respect us as well. I would hope.
Maybe not. I don't know how.
I don't know how.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 I think we do, okay. It's going to set up your family for success by paying off the loans.

Speaker 1 And you have $35,000 worth of cash left over. It's not like you're down to zero.
And even then, you know, we would tell you pay it off, keep $1,000 in your savings for an emergency fund.

Speaker 1 But this case, you're in great shape. I'd pay it off as soon as the phone call.
In fact, I kind of want you to do it while we're on the phone here.

Speaker 2 I don't even understand their financial argument for why to pay it off in chunks. We don't care.

Speaker 1 We're not even going to discuss it because it's not you making it.

Speaker 2 It makes no sense.

Speaker 1 I loved your question. Do they pay your bills? I was going to ask, do they tell you what to wear every day? Are they doing meal planning for you?

Speaker 3 They don't. No, I do all that.
No, I take care of my family.

Speaker 1 I know you do, Miles. You know why you called us? Because your gut and everything in you has told you to have a backbone and do what you want to do.

Speaker 1 But you thought, well, I'll call these two guys and see what they think.

Speaker 2 It's like being in handcuffs and saying, well, don't unchain all at once. I mean, you want to just take, you know, snip off a link here, a link that just get rid of it, man.

Speaker 2 It's not doing you any favors. What's the total payments add up to for these student loans every month?

Speaker 3 Oh, 700 a month. It's ridiculous.

Speaker 2 You just gave yourself a raise.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Miles, am I right? You wanted to do this, but you called us for one last opinion?

Speaker 3 That's exactly what it was.

Speaker 1 Then do what you were going to do. George and I agree with you.
It's not you agreeing with us. Pay it off.
And actually, I'm putting you on hold right now because you need to be paying it off now.

Speaker 2 There we go.

Speaker 1 Inside of two minutes.

Speaker 2 Go onto the website and hit pay.

Speaker 1 If this were a video call, like if we did that, we would have him go right now and do it in front of us.

Speaker 2 And watch him do it. A hundred times.
To celebrate the payoff.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you know what we would do?

Speaker 1 Then we'd make a snarky video to his parents and his in-laws.

Speaker 2 Say nana nana boo-boo. Yes.
I hope they don't say. I'm not trying to disrespect.

Speaker 1 No, I'm kidding. Of course we wouldn't do that.

Speaker 2 I don't want to rub it it in their face. I'm sure they're wonderful people.
But again, it's his financial life. He's paying all the bills.
He's going to be the one with a freed up $700 payment.

Speaker 1 George, I don't know that I've ever respected your snark more than what you just did. I just wonder, am I the crazy one?

Speaker 2 Am I so common sense that it's now insane?

Speaker 1 No, but I thought I loved how you just went, do they pay your bills? I mean, you challenge his manhood. Wow.
He challenged Miles.

Speaker 1 You're the only guy that I've ever known to get challenged by George on the manhood scale, and George just did it.

Speaker 2 So add that to my resume. Put that on my LinkedIn, guys.

Speaker 1 Miles, I hope to have you hanging up on us here momentarily to go pay this off. I still see you in the queue.
You're just going to be here.

Speaker 2 Just hanging on for dear life.

Speaker 1 Yeah, Miles, there's nothing else to say, my friend. We're moving on to Paige.
Paige is joining us in Kansas City. Paige, how can we help?

Speaker 3 Yeah, okay. I didn't think I'd be nervous, actually.
I'm like, oh, why?

Speaker 1 You know what? You're not ever going to answer. George gets us all the time.
Everybody's nervous to talk to George. Just act like you're talking to me.
I'm the everyman. What's going on?

Speaker 3 Sounds good. Hey, so we are military.
We're getting ready to move in the next six months, and we'll be buying

Speaker 3 what'll be our third home that we've bought and sold and moved.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 3 And Dave briefly mentioned

Speaker 3 that he didn't fully agree with a VA loan, that it wasn't the best kind of loan to get.

Speaker 3 And so my question was,

Speaker 3 we will be doing

Speaker 3 probably close to 50% down payment, rubbing off the equity of our current home, and

Speaker 3 looking to do a 15-year mortgage. So is it still like, I guess, what is his reasoning behind the VA loan that it

Speaker 1 was a consumer?

Speaker 2 Well, generally, when people go after these VA loans, they do it because there's virtually no down payment needed, no PMI, and no minimum credit score.

Speaker 2 And so people do it because, truthfully, they're broke and it allows broke people to buy homes, which makes them broker. And I hate that for our veterans.
I think they deserve more.

Speaker 2 And on top of that, there's funding fees between 1.25 and 3.3% of the loan amount, which can make your overall payment and overall interest higher.

Speaker 2 And so a lot of the times that just seems like, wow, what a benefit I'm getting. And you're actually not getting the benefit you think.
There's also strict property requirements.

Speaker 2 And so you also have no equity when you enter the home, which is risky. in a market like we've seen the past few years where it hasn't been gangbusters like it was years before.

Speaker 2 Now, in certain situations, which might be yours, with 50% down, and if you have a service-connected disability, you can get the funding fee waived, which can make these a decent option.

Speaker 2 Is that you guys? Okay.

Speaker 3 Well, no, we don't have, he's still active duty.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 we wouldn't have that. I didn't realize that was attached to the VA loan.

Speaker 1 So here's what I would do.

Speaker 2 I would contact our friends at Churchill and have them run the numbers.

Speaker 2 Hey, I want the 15-year fixed rate conventional, and I want to see the 15-year VA loan with our down payment amount and our home purchase price. And they'll show you the numbers.

Speaker 2 They'll show you what the closing costs are, what your monthly payment will be. And I'd encourage you to go with the one that makes the most sense, that has the least amount of fees.

Speaker 2 Okay. So if that's the VA loan, it might win in this situation where you go, okay, that makes sense.

Speaker 2 But you might find the 15-year conventional with your down payment where you guys are at might be the better deal.

Speaker 1 Okay. Yeah, we're all about.

Speaker 2 It's not a never. It's just that people who tend to trend toward these loans have nothing down and they're broke and they're about to take on way more than they can chew.

Speaker 3 Okay, that definitely makes sense.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Well, thank you for your service.
Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 And well, it sounds like they've done it right. Like just can 50% down.
That's amazing. That's because they're rolling equity and they didn't get upside down.

Speaker 1 They didn't get too much going on in their previous stops.

Speaker 2 And they didn't hang on to the properties where they went, well, we should keep it as a rental and be long-distance landlords because that's smart. That's right.
And you got three mortgages.

Speaker 1 I could tell you had a warm feeling on your face when she said 50% down and a 15-year mortgage. I mean,

Speaker 1 you don't get that question very often on the show.

Speaker 1 Think about this, George. How about 50% down and a 15-year mortgage? You probably thought you were being punked.

Speaker 2 Honestly, that is a very rare situation to get.

Speaker 2 Most of the time, it's, hey, we can put 3% down on a 30-year. That's the calls we get.

Speaker 2 And they have a bunch of debt, no emergency fund, and they think, well, homeownership is the right next step because everyone told me

Speaker 2 all my family, Ken, said, we got to buy a house. What are you doing? Why are you throwing money away on rent? I'm tired of that rhetoric.
It's causing a lot of people to stay broke and become broker.

Speaker 1 Going to hit you with a post-election

Speaker 1 question, see where your head is at.

Speaker 1 You've seen where mortgage rates are at. You're watching this stuff all the time.
Tick back up a little bit.

Speaker 1 Do you have a gut of feeling about the real estate market in general for our audience? Because a lot of people are thinking, do I buy now?

Speaker 1 You know, Fed has kind of moved another quarter point, didn't do much. What are your thoughts on real estate? And should we buy? Should we be sitting?

Speaker 2 I think rates won't change drastically over the next six to 12 months. So if you're sitting on the sidelines waiting for some magic to happen, don't.

Speaker 2 Because if things do change drastically, I'm guessing home values will spike up, even if rates go down. And so you're not going to really get a benefit.

Speaker 2 So if you're ready to buy a home, you're out of debt with an emergency fund and a down payment, go ahead and buy. Don't wait until, you know, Trump, you know, gets into office in January.

Speaker 2 Don't wait for the housing market to do a special thing. Just buy when you're ready and don't let anyone else influence you.
All right, good.

Speaker 1 Very simple answer. There it is.

Speaker 2 But I don't think anything drastic is going to happen. Yeah.
It's my take. I love it.

Speaker 1 That's essentially your TikTok of the day.

Speaker 1 Because people are out there watching all this stuff, and I thought, I want to see what you're thinking.

Speaker 2 Clip that to your TikToks.

Speaker 1 There you go. TikTok, TikTok.
We got to get out of here. Good hour, George.
Always good. You held up good?

Speaker 2 I got it. Cantankerous, but joyful spirit.

Speaker 1 Yes, absolutely. This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 This is the Ramsey Show, where we help you win in your life, specifically with your money, in your work, in your relationships. 888-825-5225 is the phone number.
We would love to coach you today.

Speaker 1 888-825-5225. I'm Ken Coleman.
George Campbell is alongside in his snappy Gap Kids denim coat. And actually Oshkosh Bagash.

Speaker 2 Thank you.

Speaker 1 It's a good guest. Oshkosh is the better brand.
It's been around. It's high quality.
Yeah, it's good stuff. Trey is going to start us off this hour hour in cleveland oio trey how can we help today

Speaker 3 yes sir so me and my wife are having a bit of a disagreement when it comes to uh rental properties and uh we started off uh

Speaker 3 getting into real estate about five years ago and we purchased our uh for first house and turned it into a duplex um and

Speaker 3 Her parents have been in the real estate industry for like 20 years, and they have a specific way of doing things.

Speaker 3 And I recently discovered Dave Ramsey and you know trying to remain debt-free while building wealth. And

Speaker 3 she

Speaker 3 is more along the lines of pulling getting a HELOC to snowball

Speaker 3 being able to purchase more properties. But I'm more along the lines of

Speaker 3 just save money, pay for it with cash, because if you do the HELOC, while yes, you might be able to buy more quickly, you're not really building wealth, you're just building debt and adding risk.

Speaker 3 If that makes sense. Right, right.

Speaker 1 So you know what you want to do.

Speaker 2 We're going to give you the same advice you would give your wife. You have a better chance of convincing her.
Why is she not convinced yet? Is she just so starry-eyed at

Speaker 2 what's going to happen with this property and all the money she could make?

Speaker 3 Well, I think she trusts her parents because her parents have been doing it that way for, like I said, 20 years, and then they're more towards the end of, you you know, they have a couple dozen properties.

Speaker 3 And now that about everything's getting to the point where it's paid off, seeing the big dollar signs at the end of it, and I guess trying to explain to her that you can still do that, but without the risk and paying cash, she just

Speaker 1 wants to. She wants to expedite it in the short time.

Speaker 2 And to her, that's the HELOC with the variable interest rate that puts your home at risk.

Speaker 1 How much of a conversation have you had around the risk part? Because it feels like, I'm going to take a guess. Tell me if I'm wrong here, Trey.

Speaker 1 My guess is because that's the way her mom and dad have always done it. She loves her mom and dad.
She looks up to them, massive respect. So they have huge influence.

Speaker 1 But because of that, she's never even looked at the downside of this. Is that true or false?

Speaker 3 It's true, but you know,

Speaker 3 I was, I grew up in a very poor family, and I'm not going to say I made the best financial decisions

Speaker 3 in our marriage. And, you know, as we've had kids, I've tried to change the way I do things.
So,

Speaker 3 you know, even though I might have some good points, there's maybe a trust thing there that

Speaker 1 it might not be the best decision based off that.

Speaker 1 Okay, so you're saying she doesn't trust your opinion?

Speaker 3 Pretty much.

Speaker 1 Okay, but that was really not the question that I asked.

Speaker 1 The question that I ask is, have you sat down with her and talked about the risk of all of this and walked through it and forced her to confront it.

Speaker 1 And when I say forced, I don't mean in your attitude and your posture, but just confronting her with, hey, if this doesn't go well, because you were laying it out beautifully a moment ago, and I just wondered if you've actually sat with her and showed her a worst case scenario.

Speaker 1 Because that's what we would do if somebody called. If somebody called and asked George that question, should I take a HELOC out to get into the rental game? He would walk through all of the risks.

Speaker 1 And I'm wondering if you've done that with her. And you said no.
Is that true? Yeah.

Speaker 3 That's correct.

Speaker 1 Yeah, blame it on us. But I don't think

Speaker 1 that her trusting you has anything to do with you making a good case.

Speaker 1 These are facts. George, what would your three or four talking points be for him if you were coaching him up and then going, all right, Trey, head into the kitchen.
She's waiting for you.

Speaker 2 Well, most people are either motivated by the math side or the emotion side. It sounds like she is, again, starry-eyed with the math on paper going, Trey, this is a no-brainer.

Speaker 2 This is a no-lose situation. Right?

Speaker 2 Right. Because she's never gotten burned on a real estate transaction, and maybe her parents haven't.

Speaker 1 And she's about ready to cash in on some stuff, right? Is that what you told us?

Speaker 3 Well, her parents have.

Speaker 1 Her parents have. That's my point.

Speaker 2 So there's a fallacy here that

Speaker 2 because I haven't been burned in the past, everything's going to be fine in the future. And Dave tried that.
He went bankrupt doing real estate the risky way.

Speaker 2 And then he restarted and went, all right, I'm only going to pay cash for my next investment property instead of shortcutting it.

Speaker 2 And yes, it takes longer, but listen, when you get there, that thing cash flows amazingly with 100% equity, and then you can roll that into the next property and the next one.

Speaker 2 And you move slower, but you move with less risk. But it sounds like she is convinced her parents' way is the best way.
And therefore, the math may not work here.

Speaker 2 And so you may need to go, listen, I'm a part of this marriage. I have a vote.

Speaker 2 I'm not comfortable moving forward with this and putting our home at risk with a variable interest rate HELOC with extra fees on top of that. Let's just move slow.

Speaker 2 And if that means we're not real estate moguls by the time we're 40, so be it. We can build wealth despite not having 17 rental properties.

Speaker 3 Right.

Speaker 2 But truthfully, people who are into real estate like that, their risk meter is broken. They generally don't have a lot saved.
They're not putting money away for retirement.

Speaker 2 They're just hoping the next house deal works out and that that will provide them their retirement income.

Speaker 2 But we get the calls when they took out the HELOC and things didn't work out. And so I would encourage you to show her some of those calls from the Ramsey show.

Speaker 2 You can just Google HELOC Rental Ramsey on YouTube and probably find 17 calls where things went sideways.

Speaker 1 What do you think about that one, Trey?

Speaker 3 No, no, I like that.

Speaker 1 I like that a lot. Just say, hey, will you watch this clip? I've seen the horror stories.
Watch this clip with me real quick. And she's going to go.

Speaker 2 Well, that's not going to happen to us because I figured it out. We're going to do it the safe way.
And the truth is, HELOCs add risks for your life.

Speaker 2 And the bank can take away your home if you miss or default on a payment.

Speaker 1 And the other thing that I'm concerned about for Trey

Speaker 1 is that all of the stuff we're telling him, I think, is potentially effective. The challenge, George, that I'm worried about for Trey is her mom and dad.

Speaker 1 If they're cheerleading on the other side, I don't know what comes out of the way. You don't want to get in the middle of that.

Speaker 2 I think it puts

Speaker 1 you the bad guy. Trey, is that possible?

Speaker 1 That no matter what you say, they're cheerleading on the other one. It's totally possible.
The only result is that it drives a wedge in your marriage.

Speaker 2 That's it. And I think you make this conversation bigger than that and say, it's not about the HELOC.
This is driving a a wedge in our marriage.

Speaker 2 We're misaligned on our strategy for building wealth for the next 20 years. And I want to get alignment on that before we make any moves.

Speaker 1 Yeah, absolutely. And that might take some time.

Speaker 2 I don't know that there's one conversation that's going to convince me.

Speaker 1 There's some marriage therapy there.

Speaker 1 Because here's the thing: the hold that your in-laws have on your wife is massive.

Speaker 1 Massive.

Speaker 2 And what does she think this next house is going to do for her? Is this just a stepping stone to get another HELOCed for the next one?

Speaker 3 Yes. Yep.

Speaker 2 Do you see where this is going? This is going to be an endless chase of more.

Speaker 1 For what?

Speaker 2 What is the reason?

Speaker 1 I want to know why.

Speaker 1 Because her mom and dad.

Speaker 2 Because mom and dad. They've got to be able to do that.
I want to build house like mom and dad.

Speaker 1 She sees them going, well, we made this and she wants to do the same thing they did. You compound how much she loves her mom and dad, how much she respects them.

Speaker 1 Plus, mom and dad have a couple of trophies. This is a tough situation for you.

Speaker 2 Here's an idea. When mom and dad pass, we'll inherit inherit their real estate portfolio.
Boom. We don't have to add risk to our life right now.
Let's wait.

Speaker 2 We'll inherit their hard work, and we don't have to put our lives in jeopardy over the next house that's going to make us wealthy.

Speaker 1 Tough, tough conversations coming for Trey.

Speaker 1 Hang in there, man. Share your heart.

Speaker 1 Hold the line. Because this is going to take a while.
I have a feeling. This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to The Ramsey Show alongside George Camille. I'm Ken Coleman, triple eight eight two five five two two five is the phone number.
Triple eight eight two five five two two five.

Speaker 1 So got new people joining all the time. We've taken a couple calls today, people that have been just tracking with us for just a few months.

Speaker 1 And so if you want to find out more about the baby steps, the stuff we talk about, find out where you are. Are you on track?

Speaker 1 You can take a quick quiz that'll check your progress and you get a personalized plan just for you. This is super encouraging for you.
Just clarity to know where you are and where you need to go. So

Speaker 1 head to the show notes and click on the link titled, Are You on Track with the Baby Steps? Are You on Track with the Baby Steps? And take that quick quiz and it'll help you out big time.

Speaker 1 Triple 8-825-5225 is the phone number. Naples, Florida is where we go next.
And Beverly joins us there. Beverly, how can we help?

Speaker 3 Hi, I'm in trouble and I need some help.

Speaker 1 Okay, we're here for you. What's going on?

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 3 I wrote a book. I hired a company to market it and distribute it and the whole nine yards.
And it started off at $2,000 and escalated into $60,000.

Speaker 3 They never told me in the beginning I had to pay for the printing of the books. They never told me that I had to, they were going to set up a website, and

Speaker 3 they never told me that I had to have a domain and a hosting company on top of that $2,000. So they were just big shysters.

Speaker 3 The end of it was they kept telling me, yes, my money's coming, my money's coming. They owed me like $140,000 in royalties, which never came.
And the end of it was that

Speaker 3 I did a merchant dispute because they were supposed to do an audio book, which they never did. So I put a $4,000 dispute in on that.

Speaker 3 And they

Speaker 3 They said that unless I paid up my whole amount that I owed them, which was that $4,000, they would cancel my account, which they did, and never did the book. So they canceled my account.

Speaker 3 So now I'm out $60,000 trying to figure out how to pay it.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God. I assume none of this was real.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I know. The royalties weren't there.

Speaker 2 There was never a book.

Speaker 1 Did you ever get a copy?

Speaker 1 Did people buy the book?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I wrote the book.

Speaker 1 I wrote the book. Right, but my question is, is if they told you you were owed royalties, that implies that you actually sold the book.

Speaker 2 It takes a lot of book sales to get $140,000 in royalties.

Speaker 1 A lot.

Speaker 3 Right. Well,

Speaker 3 they promised on their promissory, their original contract thing that they would distribute 8,000 books.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but I got a news. All over the world.
Yeah, but I got news for you. Selling 8,000 books isn't equal to $140,000 in royalties.

Speaker 1 Both George and I are best-selling authors, so I mean, you just got completely scammed. Do you actually have the book in your possession now, at least, the electronic version? Oh, yes.

Speaker 3 Oh, yes.

Speaker 2 And do you have the rights to sell it on your own now?

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 So is this publisher a real publisher?

Speaker 3 Well, I thought they were.

Speaker 1 Well, no. Have you done any homework to see do they actually have,

Speaker 1 is this a phantom company or does this company exist somewhere?

Speaker 3 Well,

Speaker 3 I've been doing a lot of research on this since this happened, and I found out that they have

Speaker 3 six different websites that I can connect to each other.

Speaker 3 Only one of them is registered in the state of Florida,

Speaker 3 and the other five are not registered in either New York or

Speaker 2 they might actually put the book out to tell you oh look we actually printed the book but I would get a lawyer involved if you want money back to try to I mean that's the you're gonna have a tough time telling the credit card company hey can you clear it for me it was fraud you spent the money

Speaker 3 Well, the problem is I've been trying to get an attorney and

Speaker 3 I called the biggest one in the country and they said, no, it's too old because this is going on a year and a half, even though the last final thing was only a couple weeks ago.

Speaker 3 You know, I've been working with them this whole time. And then the next person, the next attorney they call says, Well, have you ever been turned down by an attorney?

Speaker 3 And I said, Yes, well, they don't want me. So, I've been trying to find an attorney, and no attorney will take the case at this point.

Speaker 3 You know, I don't know what you're doing.

Speaker 1 What do you do for work about getting them?

Speaker 3 I'm retired,

Speaker 1 okay.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 the other problem is, I'm 79 years old.

Speaker 1 So, So what is your income? 24 years.

Speaker 3 My personal income in the business is about

Speaker 3 $1,700 a month, which I have one of those debt reduction programs working.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 Beverly, you need to never get on the internet again.

Speaker 2 You are getting scammed left and right.

Speaker 1 No. These companies, what they do.
They're paying off one.

Speaker 2 What happens is they tell you, stop paying your debts. Instead, give us that payment.
Let your credit score tank.

Speaker 2 Let the creditors come after you with lawyers and lawsuits and then we'll try to settle the debt for less yeah right that's how it works yeah well yeah

Speaker 2 there's red flags in every corner what can i do and i hate that they they i mean you were you were preyed upon by this these companies

Speaker 2 and so you need to go be on the defense for the rest of your life to go i'm not going to ever get scammed again and i'm going to fight to get this resolved and you may not get a resolution that's the hard part you may need to swallow the harsh pill going, this money I'm never going to get back.

Speaker 1 And it hurt to get scammed.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I tracked it to a real person. I found

Speaker 3 a real person that has a real address and a real house.

Speaker 1 What are you going to do?

Speaker 2 Roll up to their house with a baseball bat? You got to get a lawyer involved.

Speaker 3 I might.

Speaker 3 I told them in the beginning, I said, you know, hell hath no fury like a woman scorned with a computer.

Speaker 1 That's the truth.

Speaker 3 With a computer.

Speaker 1 That's the truth. Yeah, but you got to find some upstart young lawyer who's looking to make a name for themselves.

Speaker 2 And I would contact the credit card company, explain this, and say, listen, this was, you know, obviously you took out the debt, so it's not a straight up fraudulent activity, but you were defrauded, and therefore you have no ability to pay back this debt.

Speaker 2 Do you have anything in writing saying they were going to give you this 140 grand?

Speaker 3 I have a service agreement, yes.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 I mean, I would find a lawyer who's a year and a half is not, you know, 50 years old.

Speaker 1 And I hear something in your voice, Beverly. You're like,

Speaker 1 but you just spouted off one of the great quotes of all time. By the way, one of the truest quotes of all time that hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

Speaker 1 And I would put that scorn into finding a young lawyer

Speaker 1 who is not some big firm. And

Speaker 1 I would. I'd find somebody that's straight out of law school

Speaker 1 that's looking to make a difference. I'm telling you, I would put that energy into that.
That's the only shot you have.

Speaker 1 You know what your only other option is? I mean, you're going to have to pay the 60 back over time. And you have an income of $1,700 a month.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Do you not have Social Security?

Speaker 3 And a lifespan of 10 years.

Speaker 1 Well, I hope you got longer than that. But

Speaker 1 do you not have Social Security coming in?

Speaker 3 Yeah. Yeah, that's part of it.
That's what's.

Speaker 1 Oh, that. Oh, I thought you said.

Speaker 2 Well, you said in the business. In the business.

Speaker 1 You said something about your business.

Speaker 3 No, the whole, the whole everything is. I mean, that's my income.
My husband gave me $500 a month to live on, and I have a small pension.

Speaker 3 I haven't even worked part-time my whole career, and then I have my Social Security.

Speaker 1 Is your husband still alive?

Speaker 3 Yes. But the problem is, all our money is his money.

Speaker 3 He retired at the age of 50.

Speaker 1 Beverly, you buried the lead.

Speaker 1 This is a whole different phone call now. Well,

Speaker 3 I know, but he got screwed twice because of this company.

Speaker 1 What company?

Speaker 1 The same company? This one that, yeah, I said. Did he publish a book, too?

Speaker 3 No, no, no, but they told him that the money's coming.

Speaker 3 All they need to do is get $14,000, I don't know, $5,000 to pay the distributor. So I begged him, please let me do it for five days.
He says, I'll have the money by Friday.

Speaker 3 So I says, let me loan that money for five days. I did five days third and ten days to turn it.

Speaker 1 So his money is in this too

Speaker 1 well he he got his money back he was able to but do a charge back and get his money back this is the problem and now they you guys you guys are living separate lives and you're 79 years of age and your husband's like well sorry Beth

Speaker 3 figure it out yeah I know but it's his money and his you know his in from his parents that he inherited how long you guys been married really

Speaker 2 40 some years 40 years chances of you guys combining finances after 40 I mean I hope it happens

Speaker 1 I mean, I don't, you know,

Speaker 1 you literally just like gave him a pass. He's like, sorry, Bev.

Speaker 1 Good luck with the $60,000 debt. I got my money back.
I'm over here playing Parcheesi and golf with the fellas, and you're stressed out of your mind. This doesn't make any sense to me.
Ugh.

Speaker 1 This dude needs to help you out. He's your husband.

Speaker 2 If we don't laugh, we cry. That's a tough situation, Beverly.
I'm so sorry.

Speaker 2 I file all the complaints, try to get the charge backs, do whatever you can to fight this, but just know you might not get a resolution.

Speaker 1 This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Triple 8-825-5225.

Speaker 1 Alongside George Campbell, I'm Ken Coleman. Excited that you're with us.
Let's go back to the phones. Detroit, Michigan is where we go.
Delise is there. Delise, how can we help today?

Speaker 3 Hi, yes.

Speaker 3 I am trying to figure out if I should sell my RV at half price and just cut my losses now.

Speaker 1 Tell me more about the RV and what the debt is on it and all the nine yards that we don't know.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 3 So it's a $125,000 18-foot RV. I now owe $105,000 on it.

Speaker 3 I've sold,

Speaker 3 I've gotten out of debt out of everything else. My house is gone.
car is paid for. All my credit cards are

Speaker 3 gone.

Speaker 3 And so this one thing I've had online now for a few months for $85,000

Speaker 3 is seeming to go down more and more. Now, I have $100,000 from

Speaker 3 the sale of the house.

Speaker 3 And I was just wondering if I should just go on and

Speaker 3 eat that, try to sell it and eat the

Speaker 3 other costs, which is anywhere from $40,000 to $50,000.

Speaker 1 Yeah, because this RV is going to continue to go down in value. So

Speaker 1 what do you think you

Speaker 1 should be listing it for? Because clearly $85,000 isn't low enough if it's been online for a couple months. If you want to get rid of it quickly, we've got to lower it.

Speaker 1 So that would be the difference that you would have to eat, right? So what do you think the right price is? Yeah.

Speaker 3 Well, when I went back to the dealer, which I know is the worst place to go.

Speaker 1 Yeah, they'll give you about some pocket change for it.

Speaker 3 Yeah, they were talking about $60,000. So,

Speaker 3 and the one or two buyers that I did have

Speaker 3 got away from me either because the van wouldn't start at that time because I hadn't been driving it for three or four months. As I say, I moved.

Speaker 1 Not a great first date when you're trying to sell a $100,000 vehicle.

Speaker 3 It wasn't, and I'm truly afraid of this whole $100,000 thing. Plus, I understand now that

Speaker 3 this over $100,000 that I was going to use for my retirement will have a capital

Speaker 3 gains tax against it. And I don't know what, I don't know how much that'll be.

Speaker 3 Like, how much should I even put aside for that?

Speaker 2 It depends if it's short-term or long-term and how long you've held the asset and what your income is.

Speaker 3 I sold my house in April. And my income is $150,000 a year, $160 a year.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 And where are you living now?

Speaker 3 I live in downtown Detroit, Michigan.

Speaker 2 Are you renting? You said you had the profits from the home. Where'd you go next? Right.

Speaker 3 I'm renting an apartment.

Speaker 2 Okay. So you're renting an apartment right now.
You have $100,000 from the home sale. Do you have anything else in savings or retirement?

Speaker 3 I have a small retirement from the government

Speaker 3 and probably a pension, I guess. I'm 61, so I'm kind of downsizing everything for a possible retirement in the next five to ten years.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 Well, remember, retirement is not an age, it's a financial number. You need to be able to retire and cover all of your expenses and still have margin left over.

Speaker 2 So that's the plan I want to get you to. And getting rid of this RV is likely part of that.
Why did you get the RV in the first place?

Speaker 3 Crazy lady. I got it during COVID.
I had to get out of the house. Everybody was living with me in the house.
And

Speaker 3 both my parents passed during that time. So it was just an emotional buy more so than me saying I did make 48 states, but it still was an emotional buy.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 2 okay. So you owe 105 top dollar.

Speaker 2 You think you could get 75 or 80 private sale?

Speaker 3 I think so. I'm new to this, so 75.

Speaker 3 Yeah, it's at 85 now. So yeah.

Speaker 2 Let's say worst case you sold it for 75. You would owe 30 in order to clear the title.
So you take 30 out of your 100,000 profits. That leaves you with 70 grand.

Speaker 2 Right. But it frees up that giant payment.

Speaker 1 What's the payment on this thing?

Speaker 3 It's $768,000. I'm lost.

Speaker 2 Okay. So you'd get a raise right there just by getting rid of that payment and the interest.
Exactly.

Speaker 3 It's $700 a year for the registration kind of thing.

Speaker 1 Well, then you got insurance and all the other maintenance.

Speaker 2 I mean,

Speaker 2 that's an expensive toy. So I would get rid of it ASAP.

Speaker 1 Exactly.

Speaker 2 There may be a better seasonality with the RV in your area. I don't know how many people are trying to buy an RV in November.

Speaker 3 Yeah,

Speaker 3 I know I'd have to wait till spring again, but

Speaker 3 I just didn't know if it was a good, if you're thinking like I'm thinking, I need to get a lot of money.

Speaker 1 Well, think about it.

Speaker 2 You make an $800 payment for the next six months until we get into warmer weather. You just spend a lot of money to try to hope to make more profit while this thing continues to go down in value.

Speaker 2 So I might cut my losses now and take $75 for it instead of I absolutely concur.

Speaker 1 That is exactly where I was going when I asked you that question on what do you think the right price is in the open market, not to a dealer? And let's make this thing attractive and get rid of it.

Speaker 1 Thankfully, you got the cash to be able to get whole on it and get it out of your life. Yes.

Speaker 2 And then we need to figure out for the next five or ten years, we need to make up for lost time and start shoveling away money into retirement accounts so that we have a nice nest egg.

Speaker 3 Exactly. Will I get caught on the capital tax thing? Um,

Speaker 3 uh, if I put the money on that on the van?

Speaker 2 Capital gains? Do you know that there's capital gains tax on the sale of your home?

Speaker 1 Because generally,

Speaker 3 first time hearing about it.

Speaker 2 Okay, you may not have capital gains tax. I would talk to a tax pro to have them look into your specific situation.

Speaker 2 But if it was your primary residence, you were there two out of five years, you know,

Speaker 2 and you're single, you'll likely have up to, I believe, $250,000 in

Speaker 2 appreciation without taxes.

Speaker 3 $250,000 in appreciation.

Speaker 2 So if you bought it at $250,000, you sold it at $500,000, you're fine.

Speaker 1 What was the purchase price?

Speaker 3 I bought it at $285,000. I sold it at close to $400,000, I think.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 So you're likely fine. You're not going to speak out of turn, depending on your situation, but you're likely not going to have capital gains on that $100,000 that ended up in your account.

Speaker 2 And even if you did, you're talking 0% to 15% for your situation if you hold it long enough.

Speaker 2 So again, I'd get in touch with a tax pro, make sure you're fine on the tax side, but I'd use that cash and get out of this RV and never go go into debt again on a depreciating asset.

Speaker 1 Absolutely. Thank you, Delise.

Speaker 1 There's an RV.

Speaker 2 There's a lot of zeros on the end of RV mistakes.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's so true. Let's go to Holly in Columbia, Missouri.
Holly, how can we help?

Speaker 3 Hi, guys. It's an honor to talk to you.

Speaker 3 Well, I'm a little nervous, but I'm excited.

Speaker 3 My question is,

Speaker 3 I've worked part-time my entire life,

Speaker 3 and I've never been responsible with money. I even have a bankruptcy.

Speaker 1 How old are you? I'm proud of this.

Speaker 3 I'm 32.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I had a really bad marriage, and we did some really bad things with money, and just went into a lot of debt.

Speaker 3 But now I've been offered,

Speaker 3 honestly, the opportunity of a lifetime.

Speaker 3 Honestly, and I'm worried and I'm anxious only because I'm going to be making really good money and I really don't know how to manage it. So I'm calling in.
I've listened to you guys for a while.

Speaker 2 What do you make now and what will you be making?

Speaker 3 Well, right now I don't have a job because I just moved to Missouri. So I'm just now getting back into the workforce, but I will be making $20, $17 an hour.

Speaker 2 $20.17 an hour?

Speaker 1 Yes, sir.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So that's about $40,000.

Speaker 1 Yes. Okay.

Speaker 2 And you're going, I don't want to screw this up. How do I make sure I make the most of this?

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 1 Is that your question right we got about a minute

Speaker 2 so here's here's the deal if you can learn to manage a little you can learn to manage a lot and so that that is you haven't had a great track record but that doesn't mean you can't improve and so i'm going to gift you one year of every dollar premium to help with this and a budget is going to be your best friend It's going to be the boss, and you're going to be the boss of it when you make it.

Speaker 2 It's going to be the boss of you during the month because you said, this is where my money is going to go.

Speaker 2 Every single cent of my take-home pay is going toward debt payoff, payoff, to the rent, to the bills, and you're going to learn to live on less than you make. That is the key.

Speaker 2 And along with that, Holly, I'm going to send you my book, Breaking Free from Broke.

Speaker 2 It's going to walk you through this entire process, start to finish, from how to get out of debt, how to build wealth, how to avoid money traps, and how to finally get control of money instead of it controlling you.

Speaker 2 But I'm proud of you. You're making great strides.

Speaker 1 Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 A new chapter for Holly.

Speaker 1 It's the way to go, Holly. It's exciting to see you start to make your way and do take advantage of this offer that George has given you.

Speaker 1 This is going to help you so much just to know where your money is, know where it's going, and half the battle is just simply knowing.

Speaker 1 Feels like a Saturday morning cartoon message that all came back to me. Yeah, this is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to the Ramsey Show alongside George Campbell. I'm Ken Coleman.
Thrilled to have you with us. 888-825-5225 is the phone number to jump in.

Speaker 1 George, what's the best way to make the most of your money?

Speaker 2 Is this a true question? Because I think it's the budget.

Speaker 1 It is a budget. Every dollar makes it simple.
It is our world-class budgeting tool. Helps you plan your spending track expenses and save for what matters most to you.

Speaker 1 When you keep a pulse on your spending, you start to be able to make progress on your money goals, and you do all that with every dollar.

Speaker 1 You can download every dollar for free in the app store or Google Play or click on the link in the show notes if you're partaking on YouTube or your favorite podcast app, all right. Honolulu.

Speaker 1 Oh boy, wish I was there. I'm telling you.
Honolulu. You ever been, George? No.

Speaker 2 I'd love to go.

Speaker 1 I didn't think you had been. It's lovely.

Speaker 2 Should we do a couple trip?

Speaker 1 We should. We should absolutely do that.
I think you would look great in a Hawaiian shirt.

Speaker 2 Thank you. Look at matching ones.

Speaker 1 Absolutely. Grace is there.
Grace, how can we help today?

Speaker 3 Hi, thanks for taking my call. Sure.
I have been working the baby steps for about two months now, and I love my budget, but my husband does not.

Speaker 1 So I'm

Speaker 3 wondering how I can get him on board. We've talked about it.
We've sat down and done the budget together. He'll agree to it.
He'll say he understands it, and then he'll just blow it up.

Speaker 2 So when you say blow it up, what does that mean? What is he overspending on? Is there a certain category?

Speaker 3 It's pretty much nonsense.

Speaker 3 He'll just try and spend money on things to keep him busy, working on his car or spending on food and drinks at work.

Speaker 1 And what is your goal by doing this budget?

Speaker 2 Did you guys agree on why we're doing this?

Speaker 3 So that's where I tried to start. And he likes to live life now.

Speaker 3 He can't really see the purpose of

Speaker 3 getting rid of all of our debt and then being able to buy a home and like really fulfill our dreams.

Speaker 2 Have you told him that it scares you he's okay living like this, knowing that you're going to be broke later on?

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 2 What does he say when you share your honest feelings with him?

Speaker 3 He kind of downplays it. He'll apologize and then say he understands it, but his behavior won't change.

Speaker 2 Well, he clearly doesn't care about you all's financial future. He's being selfish, going, well, I just want to do what I want to do, and no one gets to tell me, and I work hard for the money.

Speaker 1 Is that about right?

Speaker 3 Yes, he actually said that the other day.

Speaker 1 Ooh, well played. Look at that.
It's like you've done this a time or two.

Speaker 2 I can just hear this guy. I know him.

Speaker 1 And he means well.

Speaker 2 He's a hardworking guy, and he's just like, ah, she's always nagging me. I'm just trying to get a little snap.

Speaker 1 He has no vision. I got a little hobby here working on cars.

Speaker 2 I got to get the stuff for the.

Speaker 1 So you got to cast vision. You got to cast a vision with this, or else it's just going to feel like a process.

Speaker 2 It's going to feel more like nagging every time.

Speaker 2 And so, number one, if he really, this is, is his car hobby making him money?

Speaker 3 No, and it's not like a bunch of money, but it's just one thing after the other.

Speaker 2 Does he have a fun money line item in the budget? Let's say 50 bucks? I do. Okay, how much is it for him?

Speaker 3 Well, we share it. It's $300.

Speaker 2 Okay, I think you need to split this out so he knows exactly what his amount is. Because that's confusing.
Do you spend $250 and he gets $50?

Speaker 2 Do you you both spend $300 and you go, whoa, we're over $300? I would split it out. So you have Grace's fund money and his fund money.

Speaker 2 And if that's $150, each and that's what you guys agree on, or you get $100, he gets $200, it doesn't have to be equal, but you guys have to agree to it.

Speaker 2 And that becomes the spit shake because it sounds like there's two categories: food and his hobbies.

Speaker 1 Right?

Speaker 2 Yeah. If we can get those in check,

Speaker 2 you guys will make progress.

Speaker 1 Yeah. How much debt do you have?

Speaker 3 We have $27,000 that I can track, and then he has a credit card I don't have access to.

Speaker 1 Oh, boy.

Speaker 1 That's a problem.

Speaker 3 It's a military star card, so he can't spend it on anything but like gas and anything on post or clothing and sales.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 But is there a way you can have access for transparency and accountability?

Speaker 3 Yes, I've been asking for that for a while, and he just kind of puts it off.

Speaker 1 Hmm.

Speaker 2 Are you sure he can't make any frivolous purchases on this card?

Speaker 3 No.

Speaker 2 Okay, because I'm thinking, I've been to a gas station. They sell a lot more than gas.

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 2 And so I think it's you have a right to accountability and transparency in your own marriage with what's going on with your money.

Speaker 2 So I think there's a deeper thing going on here.

Speaker 2 Usually it's one of three things. It's either there has been a lack of trust and there's a reason they're hiding this.

Speaker 2 There has been some trauma, maybe from the past, that makes them kind of want their own separate little parachute in case. And then there's also financial infidelity where there's spending addictions.

Speaker 2 There could be more nefarious things going on here. And I think you have a right to get to the bottom of it.

Speaker 3 I agree.

Speaker 2 And I don't think you need to do this in an attacking way because that's going to get him to shut down. But you do need to say, we have not been on the same page.

Speaker 2 You agreed that we need to get better with our money. You agreed we're going to get out of debt.
We said it was going to take this long to get out of this much debt, this much a month toward the debt.

Speaker 2 And so far, it's been derailed by random, frivolous spending.

Speaker 3 Yeah,

Speaker 3 that's very frustrating.

Speaker 2 I think you have a right to be frustrated.

Speaker 1 I do. I think this is a marriage issue.

Speaker 1 I think this is a sitting down with a therapist if we can't get it hashed out over a nice date night.

Speaker 3 It's so funny you say that because I know that.

Speaker 1 we start having.

Speaker 2 Yeah, what was the other conversation about the marriage?

Speaker 3 Yeah, just

Speaker 3 about

Speaker 3 what the spending habits and how he reacts to it makes me feel, how that shows me how he cares and doesn't care.

Speaker 3 And then it applies to other parts of our relationship too, where he'll kind of do the same things

Speaker 3 when it comes to feelings and opening up. And

Speaker 1 yeah.

Speaker 2 It takes two healthy people to have a healthy marriage it takes two emotionally mature people to have an emotionally mature marriage and i'm not we only know one side of the story there's usually three sides his side her side and the truth but so far from what you've told me he's got some work to do to kind of grow up and go i got married and that means it two become one i don't get to live however i want because it affects other people it affects your future too

Speaker 1 exactly and i and i'm the thing that i'm concerned about and if he was on the phone i'd say this you're not just buying a handful of Slim Jims at the convenience store

Speaker 1 with this credit card.

Speaker 1 It just concerns me greatly.

Speaker 2 Why does he need this credit card?

Speaker 3 He doesn't. He doesn't need it.

Speaker 1 Let's shut it down.

Speaker 1 Well, it's not that simple.

Speaker 1 He's cut her out of this. This is why this is a marriage.
I'm with you, George, but I mean, this is a relate.

Speaker 2 Well, if he's saying, I am not doing any spending on it, it's no big deal. Then go, all right, let's cut it up then.

Speaker 2 We have our debit card. we're gonna use our own money that was something we agreed on i'd like them to discuss this with a therapist in the room i think we need a third party at this point grace

Speaker 1 he's not listening to you i

Speaker 3 i cut up my credit cards and it made him so nervous he was like what if we need it for an emergency and i was like that's why we have the emergency fund like good for you

Speaker 3 we don't need it but it scares him so i can understand why he thinks he's good for you wait so all of a sudden he gets to be scared and you don't

Speaker 3 i know

Speaker 1 yeah but Grace, good on you for leading this. You're modeling the way for him.

Speaker 1 I'm trying. No, listen, you are.
Keep doing it.

Speaker 1 But I do think this is a therapist in the room so that we have an objective third party who's a professional and you share your real concerns and your real feelings.

Speaker 1 He's got to address this or else this will, if you all don't address it now,

Speaker 1 meaning he's participating, this will pop back up. And when it does, it will be really bad.

Speaker 3 Yeah, that's that's and I can't.

Speaker 1 I want him to be scared, he should be scared, he should be scared for his financial situation.

Speaker 2 That's right, and this is just exposing it by cutting up the cost.

Speaker 1 He should be scared of what he's doing to his marriage.

Speaker 3 Yeah,

Speaker 1 there we go. That we got some.
We got to rise out of grace on that one. All right, Grace, you know what to do.

Speaker 2 It's not going to be fun or easy, but it's the only path. I wish I could snap my fingers and go, Well, Grace, just tell him this one sentence, and he'll just change.

Speaker 1 Yeah, this will be hard.

Speaker 1 This will be hard, but it is worth it. It's worth it.

Speaker 3 Well, I appreciate the motivation from you guys. Thank you.

Speaker 1 Well, listen, listen, we're rooting for you.

Speaker 1 Yeah, listen, we're rooting for you. Okay, so hang in there.
All right, for all of you listening via YouTube or podcasts, this show is about to end.

Speaker 1 You can head over to the Ramsey Network app to finish the show. Distraction-free.
Go further with all the show there and don't miss what's coming up next. Click on the link in the show notes.

Speaker 1 For those of you on radio, we will continue. This is the Ramsey Show.