Quit Beating Yourself Up for Your Money Mistakes

From the Ramsey Network, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Camel, joined by my good friend, Dr.
John Deloney,

and we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225.

You jump in, we'll talk about your life and your money,

and hopefully if we do our jobs, we'll give you the right next step to take.

Calvin is up first in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

Calvin, welcome to The Ramsey Show.

You with us?

Hey.

How can we help?

Thank you. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.
You with us? Hey. How can we help? So I am doing a lot of research on you guys.
And this is the whole Ramsey method. Be careful.
Do what now? I just said be careful. I'm just kidding around.
I'm joshing. What are you doing research for? Well, so right now, I want to be financially free.
I'm a Christian. I'm very full in depth with that money is a happiness, or basically the love of money is the rid of all evil, but money itself is not evil.
I come from a family where my parents had a very large income, but they did not use it correctly at all, didn't manage it well, and they were in debt for practically their whole life. I think it just got a debt last year.
And now that I'm about to be married, I'm to into a beautiful family where they have zero debt and they have a really low income and they are doing really well off and so not fiance is used to that lifestyle and I'm used to the other lifestyle the current job I am right now I'm a general manager of a chick-fil-a and more in southe Oklahoma. And I make pretty good living for 25.
I actually moved from South Georgia to pursue this career. And what both of us put together, we'll probably make roughly around $130,000 a year for us being a single little bed.
That is pretty outstanding for most people around this area. And the reason I'm doing research is because I know we can set a lot of money back to be financially free within probably less than 10 years.

What does financially free mean for you?

Financially free means for me

it's not worrying about anything.

Not worrying about any debts.

Not worrying about payments.

Not worrying just...

So let's get crystal clear on what the goal is.

Is it I want to be debt-free,

including my house? I mean, that could be one of our goals, yes. What are you aiming for? I'm aiming for it to be financially privileged to give generously without having to think about it.
Okay. So a challenge you're going to have psychologically speaking is not being very specific and acknowledging when you cross certain thresholds and then checking yourself in your new marriage or five years from now, your five-year-old marriage and saying, okay, let's re-examine these goals.
Let's re-examine how these goals feel to us. Because what you're going to do based on what you're doing right now is you're chasing a feeling and you are going to be a lonely miserable guy with 10 million dollars you're going to be an operator making a million bucks a year and you're going to be miserable to be around because you're chasing how something's going to feel i'd much rather you say um i want to be able to tip really well every time we go out to eat.
Cool. I want to be able to save for my kids' college and not worry about it and possibly start a scholarship for somebody else in our neighborhood.
Cool. So be specific with us.
What does freedom feel like for you? I mean, what is it tangibly? What is it? Freedom itself. Well, you're saying 10 years.
So at 35 years old, let's fast forward, Calvin is debt-free, including no mortgage payment. That's a good feeling.
And then what? Do you want to be able to retire because you have $2 million in a nest egg? That's the kind of specificity that will help us help you. Or I can tip at Waffle House any and it doesn't i don't worry about it dave ramsey could give me a million dollars in cash and he wouldn't notice it so like be specific i guess the specific answer is on what i'm for, or what I'm trying to say,

is that I want to be able to invest my money in any way, any shape, or form.

And to be even more specific is to not having to worry about my family,

or most of my wife having to work

and being a traditional home.

Well, you'll be there.

I mean, you're talking about getting out of debt.

How much debt do you have?

Zero.

Okay.

So why aren't you doing that right now?

You guys, you said you're making great money.

As long as you live on less than you make,

you're on a written budget every month,

you and your wife are on the same page,

I don't see why this dream isn't happening today.

Well, that's the thing.

I've been doing research on how David Ramsey, Mr. Ramsey himself,

set the boundaries.

Because, I mean, last night we talked about this. She she's not my wife yet but she will be in six months um the fiancee obviously i know we're not tied to anything um financially as of right now because technically she is my wife obviously we're both pursuing that now and setting up so when we are married we're not shocked of finances or anything i'm having this conversation now okay that's why this is a future thing you you're looking at instead of a present because you're not married yet.
So here's what's going to happen. If you want your wife to be able to stay home, you need to budget based off of your personal income.
So if you're saying that's $130,000, how much do we take home after taxes, after investing 15%? Great. We have to learn how to live on that.
Can we live off of $8,000 a month? I think the answer for your lifestyle is probably going to be yes. And how much can we allocate to giving outside of that? How much can we allocate to getting our house paid off? That's when you start to balance all of these things over a long period of time.
If you're asking this magic question, I've been doing research on Dave Ramsey. That means you've been watching a lot of YouTube and Googling and probably reading Reddit, right? Which for a guy who spent 20 years in the academy, that's not research.
That's just Googling, but fine. The core message of Dave Ramsey is live on less than you make and give a whole bunch of money away and enjoy some of your life and be able to exhale when you put your head on your pillow.
And if that doesn't resonate with you, that's the core message. If you're like, no, no, no, no, that's too simple.
When you get into the nuts and bolts and where to put your money and your funds, the core Ramsey message is live on less than you make. And when you have access, give.
Dave says generously. I like to save recklessly.
I like to just be able to just to just give. And that can be money.
That can be time. That can be in spirit.
I've got a crazy week this week. Just 15 minutes ago, I asked George, can you drive the show is what we say.
And he's like, I got you, dude. It's a spirit of.
It's an ethos. It's a way we enter into the world.
We exist in the world. That's it, man.
And if you and your wife choose for a season for you both to work, great. And if you have a dream of marrying somebody, you want her to stay at home, you'd love to have your wife stay at home and raise kids that if you are able to have kids, cool, great.
Y'all discuss that. But it's this, I'm researching a plan.
It's not about researching a plan. Live on less than you make.
And George is saying, you make a budget and you know how much money you make. Budget for it.
Spend less than that. And if you owe debts, pay those off and then get to zero and then begin to save and begin to allocate and begin to delay gratification until you can pay for it in cash.
Yeah. And right now, Calvin, it sounds like you're running from the existence you had growing up

with your parents being broke. That's what it is.

And we want you to run to something specific, not just away from, I don't want to be broke

like my parents did making good money. That's not going to be you.
You've already decided.

That's a choice you get to make. And I have full faith you'll do that.
So hang on the line, Calvin.

I want to send you my book, Breaking Free from Broke. It'll walk you through that and help you

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I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Maloney.

Open phones at 888-825-5225.

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That was a great radio transition. You like that? That was outstanding.
And anxiety is everywhere. I just talked to a young man out in the lobby, John's got 58 cents in his checking account.
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Go check them out, ramseysolutions.com slash store, or if you're listening on YouTube or podcast, click the link in the description. Richard is in St.
Cloud, Minnesota. Up next, what's going on, Richard? Hi, thanks for taking my call.
I'm in a place where I've never been before, where I have no debt other than what remains on the principal of my house. I have nothing invested, but I do have my six-month emergency fund.
I've spoken with a SmartBester pro and I'm comfortable with them, but I'm wondering,

I can pay off what I have remaining on my house of $79,000 in 30 months,

or I can start investing.

What would be the point of investing if I can pay off the house?

I kind of like the weight of that off of me.

That is true, but we also need to realize that compound growth is our best friend when it comes to our nest egg,

and right now,

you don't have a lot of time between you and retirement. When are you looking to retire?

I like what I'm doing. And as long as I can do it, I don't plan to retire.

But do you have a pension or something? Let's say your body says I can't. 10 years.

Okay. So at 70 years old, how are you going to pay the bills if you don't have anything invested? With the Social Security.
Do you know what that payment will be? Because the average payment is about $1,700. Well, I currently work full-time, well, mostly full-time, and I also receive Social Security disability, and then that will switch to standard Social Security automatically at age 67.
And presently, between the disability and income, I have a take-home of $4,500 a month. My house payment is $1,377.
As I said, I have $79,000 principal left. I refied when it was in the basement.
So that's at a $1.875 10-year, which if I stayed on course would be paid off in $31,000. So what if you did this? What if you split the difference and you invested, you have catch up contributions you can take advantage of at this age and you began paying off the house.
And that way, as you enter retirement, you've got one less expense by paying off the house. I don't know that we need to go full on on one of them because you're going to free up that payment if you pay it off now, uh, or you'll it off in the next 30 months.
That's about almost three years. And then beyond that, you'll free up a payment you could then invest.
So either way, we're going to make a trade-off here. But I like the plan of you getting into the habit of investing to build that muscle, because for 60 years, we haven't.
Great. What did your SmartVestor Pro say? I'm guessing they were on the side of investing.
They were on the side of investing, and I would have the latitude to do a catch-up contribution for 2024 up to the $8,000 mark and then do $8,000 in 2025 as well. I guess my thought is for what investing for a two and a half year period and what might be built in that or may not be built in that period, but what would be off my shoulders as far as the mortgage for sure in that period.
I'm wondering what the nominal difference would be as far as a buildup or loss or a definite payoff. Yeah, you can crunch the numbers with your SmartVestor Pro.
I just don't want you to get stuck in this paralysis analysis mode where we don't do anything because the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The next best time is today.
And so I'd rather see some action. And if that means making an extra payment a year on the house right now while aggressively investing, that's fine.
And eventually if you go, hey, I got to retire soon. Let's get this house paid off.
We can switch gears. What do you think, John? There's not a very clear, you've got to do this or this.
The baby steps would say, let's put 15% of our income away in retirement. Anything beyond that, let's throw it at the house.
Yeah, man, this is tough because I am probably, of the Ramsey personalities, I'm probably the one that's most debt allergic. So Deloney's like, get the house paid off ASAP.
Yeah, so dude, the idea of, I'm trying to think of my dad. If my dad called and said, I'm going to be 63 and I could have 25,000 bucks in retirement, I've got $0.
And you've probably looked up and Googled the social security clock, the same as everybody else in America and watching that sucker tick and see what's supposed to be in 2030 and 2035. And so I would not hang any hats on social security.
At the same time, the thought of being 62 or 63 and having nobody can take my house, right? I can see that for me personally being a really compelling option. My concern with you is...
Well, even if Social Security went in... Yeah.
My concern is, as George mentioned, and it sounds like you've had disabilities, it sounds like you've been fighting some battles over the last 20, 30 years, right? Yeah. Well, it's a combination of foolishness, frivolity, medical necessity with my wife who passed,

and then a long-term relationship who recently passed. So now it's just me, and the house is half paid off.
And like I said, I've never been at this point before. Yeah.
So it feels like I should get out from under it and have that for sure 30 months on the other side freedom as opposed to 30 months investing and see it feels like it would be kind of pennies of possible accumulation and investing as opposed to a real solid asset that's free and clear.

I got you on that. No, I mean, I track with you.
My gut tells me the same thing. Totally get where

you're at. How much could you invest a month right now? Probably 2,000.
Okay. So let me do

some quick number crunching for you. From 60 to 70, you invest 2,000 bucks, you would have 433 grand.
Let's say you started at 63 because you wanted to get the house paid off first, right? Okay. That would then give you 250 grand.
So you've got a 170 grand difference there. At what year would that mature? Well, it's just compound growth over those seven years versus 10 years of investing two grand.
So, and again, you'd be investing more because you get free up the payments. You'd be investing three grand instead.
That's $377,000. You still didn't catch up to those first three years of investing that then had time for compound growth to work its magic.
So that's why I feel like getting started early, getting some money in there, working that muscle, getting used to investing, and then focusing on the house. You could split the difference, but either way, you've got to get investing.

I don't want to rely on just social security to be able to pay the bills the rest of my life.

And so I want you to have somewhat of a nest egg to help cushion that with social security.

What do you do for a living, brother?

I do security. And it's a good position.
It's a good company. And I enjoy what I do.
And it's

Thank you. I do security.
And it's a good position. It's a good company.
And I enjoy what I do. And it's not going anywhere unless the place burns down pretty much.
Is there a possibility, and I'm trying to be on your team here, is there a possibility that for 18 months you could just go B-A-N-A-N-A-S, just go bananas and work extra shifts and work overtime and get this thing off your chest. No, because the Social Security disability has a earnings limit, and I would need to be going 100 hours a week to do that.
That's right. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. Dang.
Well, I'd probably split the difference. I want to see you get to investing and build a habit and anything else we can throw in the house.
Let's get that knocked out in the next five years. Let's set a real clear goal and get to it, my man.
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Open phones at 888-825-5225. I'm George Camel, and sitting next to me is Dr.
John Deloney. Stefan joins us up next in Charlotte, North Carolina.
What's going on, Stefan? Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my call.
Sure. How can we help? I am in a weird position.
I lost everything, and I am driving a semi-truck working for a really big company. I've been in trucks for a lot of years now, I'll say about five years.
I made a lot of money in entrepreneurship, but I handled it wrong. I had a four-year-old daughter, I have a four-year-old daughter.
And when I had her four years ago, I just was trying to make money and get rich. And I just didn't handle money right.
I just, I think from just generational curses, no one in my family has been able to really get past poverty. I was chasing money and getting past poverty.
But the more I try to not be like that, I found myself getting evicted the same way and losing any amount of money that I have. So I'm kind of in a position where I just want to get ahead and I want to do money right.
I want to do money God's way, not just rich get rich quick but something that sustains and something that you know i can give consistently i can tie consistently i can just be a better father and yeah so that's where i'm at and like i said i have no bills right now um which i kind of see is a good thing kind of being positive about it but i know i could be a millionaire and i just how do you how does one have no bills Well, with outside of like, when I say no bills, I mean like no major overhead

vehicles. How does one have no bills? Well, when I say no bills, I mean no major overhead, vehicle payments, house payments, rent, or anything right now.

Okay, no debt.

You're not renting.

Where are you living?

In his truck.

In my semi-truck.

Yeah.

In my semi-truck.

But I also have a job with CMPD coming up in February.

Can I tell you how proud I am that you're making this call?

That's a hard thing for you to have just said out loud that you told me and George in it. Okay.
what I'm witnessing here is maybe the highest form of bravery, which is a man who loves his kid and wants to do right and wants to do something different. And it's not even as much as change your family tree, but you want to go till a new plot of ground and plant a new tree.
Cause it starts with you and you shot out of the cannon for five years and it went sideways on you and it's real easy to fall back into old patterns in the the the neighborhoods we grew up in and it's real real hard to stand tall and make a phone call and say i'm stuck yeah can i just shout you out and say i'm proud of you man thank you i appreciate that if more men would make the phone call you made today to their friends to their neighbors to their counselor to their to their ministers um the world would change it within the week but they won't but you did and i'm proud of you okay where's your daughter right now uh she lives in maryland with her mom how why aren't you in maryland with with doing what you can down the street to be in her life um so uh long story short uh ministry uh here in charlotte me and her mom met in charlotte uh where we went to school together um and um i just i prayed about i prayed about it we prayed about it we co-parent with god in the middle of it too you can be in that and we just believe that i'm supposed to still be here attached to the ministry that i'm at i think you're supposed to be attached to your daughter my brother as well yes no no listen to me i haven't heard god maybe maybe he's talking through me you need to go be down the street from your daughter and here's why i spent my career with 18 to 25 year old young men and women whose moms and dads had quote unquote different calls in their life that didn't include them and I'm not saying that you don't work I am saying you go find what you got to do to be in your daughter's life so that she sees her dad can I throw this at you you throw That's right. Her mom, her mom, they moved back home when she had, when she, to Maryland, when she had, when she had Raylan, my daughter.
Now, they're actually looking to move back to Charlotte. That was another part of it.
She was always ready to go back to Charlotte when she got on her own to speak to. When is that happening? Within the next year, I will say that happily.
That's one thing that kept me, you know, keep you going. Because it isn't easy co-parenting far away.
By far, it's really hard. I don't want to be a jerk, man, but you're not doing much co-parenting.
How old is this little girl? My baby's four. Just to give you a little bit on that, when I was doing great and making a lot of money, this is the longest gap I've been not seeing my baby.
I would spend a lot of my money feeding my baby, driving those six hours to get my baby, have her for two weeks at a time, go get her again a week later before she started school because, you know, she just started pre-K. So it's not like we had any systems in the way.
I do everything I can to get to my baby. Except, you do everything except go be with your baby.
So here's what George and I'm trying to tell you. I want you to build a life from the inside out, not from the outside in.
And you're using words like co-parent, but you haven't seen your four-year-old and four-year-olds don't do FaceTime. Four-year-olds do touch.
They do presence. They do stillness.
Okay. Four-year-olds are basically a giant nervous system they neither kids need their dads that's what i'm telling you okay and i don't want to get in the middle of your theology and what prayers you've had whatever what i know is um when you make a kid your priorities in your life changes i'm not saying that you stop working i'm not saying that you don't work really hard that you don't're a full entrepreneur, you don't try to make money.
That's what I'm saying. I'm saying it dictates where you live.
And if you and mom can't make it work, then you all figure out how we're going to live by baby. Okay.
That's not why you called, but maybe that is why this call ended up getting through all the people trying to call. I want you to figure something out and it might cost you money in the short term, but you will have something that millions of dads don't have, which is a daughter who wants to come home.
Okay. You're playing a 25 year game with this daughter now that when she's 30, when she's 25 and she thinks of her dad, her shoulders will drop and she'll exhale and say, dad's home.
Okay. Yeah.
Yeah. All right.
So my new goal would be, what do my finances need to look like to where I could take a pay cut to go move across the country to be with my daughter and it won't, you know, destroy my finances. So I would have a very clear goal of why we're getting on track.
You said you don't have a penny in debt, right? No. How much do you have in savings? Nothing.
I just started this job. Okay.
So that is your next goal. You said you have no bills.
How much are you making per month? About 4,000. So how much of that 4,000 do you actually need to cover some expenses, like food or whatever, insurance, you name it? Maybe 650 of it.
So you're telling me right now in front of America living in the truck that you could put away $3,400 a month into a savings account. Absolutely.
Let's do that. Game on.
And once you have six months worth of expenses, unless expenses are fake right now for you, but let's say you had real life expenses, you were renting a place. Let's base it on that.
Let's say it was three grand a month, six months, that's 18, maybe around up to 20. Once you have 20 grand saved up in a high yield savings account, that's your emergency fund.
That is your never go into debt again insurance policy. And once you have that, now we can begin investing.
Does your employer have a retirement program? I'm going into law enforcement. They have great ones.
Great. So once you have that emergency fund, let's begin investing 15% of our income into that retirement program.
And then beyond that, I would be looking to go, I'm going to own a house one day. I'm probably not going to live on the road for the rest of my life, hopefully.
And so I would begin saving up in another high yield savings account for that down payment for whatever's next. Maybe it's a deposit for somewhere to rent for a while, but those would be my next goals for you financially of, okay, what can I tactically do right now? And so having a savings account is your next day.
Do what? I should, I should be saving the money into those kinds of high yield saving accounts Now. Right now.
So your A1 is the emergency fund, six months of expenses. Your next A1 would be retirement, 15%.
Beyond that, let's begin saving up for down payment, deposit, all of that for housing. And that will put you in a position to where you're not stressed out if you have to do a cross-country move, if you have to take a pay cut.
You know how to live on less than you make. That's the key.
You're really good at that part. But now let's make good use of that $3,400 because otherwise it'll slip away into snacks and lifestyle and who knows what else.
And dude, I'm telling you right now, Stefan, I would have a conversation with mom tonight. I'm not going another 60 days, even if I have to get another job.
They're hiring law enforcement agents everywhere across this country. I'm not going another 60 days with forcing my daughter to live without a dad and calling that God's will right now.
It's not true. Figure out a way to be around your daughter as soon as possible, as often as possible.
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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by Dr.
John Deloney. We're taking your calls at 888-825-5225.
And with those calls, we get a lot of voicemails, a lot of calls we can't take, but the producers, they comb through painstakingly and find some of the best voicemails. And occasionally we'll do a segment called, Sorry We Missed Your Call.
And producer James has a few calls for us, a few voicemails lined up for us. James, can we play the first one? Here we go.
I have a question about a trust my family is involved in. And my wife and I just were notified that grandma had passed away and left us one quarter of a multi-million dollar trust.
But we're just feeling really weird vibes from her parents who basically felt like they got skipped in the inheritance of it and that we should give them the money back somehow. Anyways, I would love to ask about what we should do with this money and how it would work.
Thanks a bunch. Bye.
Wow. So, grandma passes and says, hey, the kids aren't getting jack squat.
The grandkids are going to get it. Yes.
And so here's the deal.

Man, since there's only one side of this call, we can't ask any questions.

The fact that their first response was, hey, that's bullcrap.

We got skipped.

Give us our money.

Maybe a reason why grandma was like, I'm not leaving them any money.

I'm going to leave it to the next generation. Yeah.
Well, especially, I mean, grandma clearly was doing well. Yes.
Managing her money and creating this wealth. So there's a piece of me that says there is a reason.
Maybe it wasn't that the parents are mismanaging. I know.
It's more fun for me to create some drama. You know, we say, you know, maybe the parents, she says, hey, the parents, they're fine.
They're older. They've got money.
The kids, I want to give them a leg up as they begin their journeys as adults. Who knows what the reason is? But the truth is they can feel all the weird vibes they want and be as mad as they want.
But this was not your decision. Yeah.
And I would not give them a penny of this money. You don't have to gloat and hold it over them.
But this is not, it's really not your money to give. Grandma gave grandma gave it to you yeah i mean i i guess it technically is your money to give but i i i just wouldn't um i like what you said i wouldn't i wouldn't i wouldn't just go buy a bunch of new cars and new houses and be like wahoo like i would be smart with it i'd sit down with the smart investor pro and invest it wisely but here's thing.
We're just feeling really weird vibes. I don't do really weird vibes when it comes to relationship.
If you have a challenge, call me. If you have a problem, let's talk about it.
Otherwise, I'm going to go do the next right thing. And grandma left you a quarter of a multimillion dollar trust.
Be a wise, good steward of that money and use it as though grandmother's sitting at the table with you

in ways that would make her smile

and bring her peace.

And this is your wife's battle

with her parents to deal with.

I wouldn't get involved as the son-in-law.

No, but you can buy

one of those electric Hummers

that the wheels turn sideways

and they park themselves.

They're kind of rad looking.

That'll really make them angry.

So that's what to do with it.

Yes, I'd get with a SmartVestor Pro,

obviously run it through the baby steps,

pay off your debts,

invest for the future,

and hopefully you can do the same

Thank you. That'll really make them angry.
So that's what to do with it. Yes, I'd get with a SmartVestor Pro, obviously run it through the baby steps, pay off your debts, invest for the future, and hopefully you can do the same for your grandkids one day.
Maybe skipping your kids just to keep the tradition going. I like the tradition.
I like every other one. We got another voicemail, James? You got one in the tank? All right, let's see what we got next.
My wife and I are baby step seven, and we owe nobody a dime. But I have several vehicles, two collector cars, and a Kubota tractor that I need to take care of our seven-acre property.
Do I sell my toys because they're worth more than my annual income, even though they're all paid for. And that's my question.
We're investing everything to Ramsey way. Thank you.
Great question. So baby step seven, meaning they have completed all the steps, they paid off their house, they're building wealth, giving generously, but he's got a lot of toys, the collector cars, the tractor and millionaires.
Some of it we can agree is for fun. Some of it he's saying he needs to take care of this large property.
And so I see no problem with this. And when we say, here's the parameter, that's why he's calling in.
We have the parameter of, hey, everything with wheels and motors shouldn't add up to more than half of your annual income. So let's say he makes a hundred grand and the toys are worth 120 total.
We're going, whew, that's a lot of your world tied up in what we would say are depreciating assets the tractor's not making the money the collector cars aren't may hold their value who knows the collector cars might be a little iffy on this one several vehicles so if it's weighing on him i would say sell what you need to get the weight off your back but as far as financials go i mean there's nothing on fire here either no and i think the weight is he wants to do everything quote unquote the ramsay way and we have this principle um i think the principle begins to dissolve when you become a millionaire and you're a multi-millionaire and as dave says could you take one of those collector cars and set it on fire in the living room of your house and it it would make a mess, but it wouldn't hurt your net worth.

Yes, you're good.

Do you need a tractor to run your property?

Yes, and so we're not selling the tractor.

You've paid for it.

You own it.

It's in cash.

It's a part of making your life run.

Let's don't do that.

If you, like George says, yeah,

if those two collector cars kind of wait on you a little bit,

sell one of them if you want to.

But, man, you're a millionaire.

Y'all are there. You can now spend some money on some of these things and give your money away generously.
Yeah. The goal of that principle, that parameter, is to allow you to make it through the baby steps to build wealth.
Right. And so we don't know their net worth.
You could be in baby step seven and not have a high net worth. So a lot could be true here.
There's a lot to dig into. So if you're on track for a great retirement and you have plenty of money to give, save, and spend as you please, then I would say you're on track.
But if you're going, oh, we're really not where we should be with our retirement. We could invest more.
I might look at selling some of these to just get rid of the weight. Or maybe you're what I would call a technical millionaire.
The value of your home is a million dollars, but y'all are cash poor.

Yeah, sell the two collector cars.

Your land might be worth a million, but you don't have anything in retirement.

Right. There's no income.

And it's not because of some secret Ramsey formula.

You don't have the money.

Yeah.

Thanks for the voicemails.

We appreciate it.

I would love a Kubota tractor.

It sounds fancy.

If you're mentioning the brand name, I imagine it's like the Maserati of tractors yeah i have no idea to i only know john deere john deere i'm mainstream when it comes to tractors john john deere is outstanding i do kubota's yeah i i can i can covet me a kubota tractor i would love one for my property um so yeah you paid for it with cash rock and roll brother there we go all, let's get to a call from Avery in Hartford. What's going on, Avery? Get right to your question.
Hey, how's it going, guys? Thank you for taking my call. My wife and I are currently discussing buying a large tract of uncleared land to build a remote off-grid cabin on.
You're speaking John's language now. Just in case it all goes down.
I'm with you. All right.
All right, yeah. And it's less so if we can afford to do so.
We have the cash. Great.
It's more so if it's the right time to do so. Okay, what's going on in your life that you think it may not be the right time? The goal was always to pay off the house aggressively, and so far we've been doing so.
And this money was kind of sitting there to pay off the house. That was kind of the unspecified goal of the money.
It would be taking a... We have $100,000 in a brokerage account that was supposed to go towards the remaining balance of the mortgage once we got to that point.
The safest thing you can do, Avery, if it all goes down, is to have a house that nobody can take from you. Pay off your primary mortgage first.
What's left on the mortgage? I'm sorry, say it again? What's left on the mortgage? $147,000. Okay, and what's the land going to cost plus the cabin build? The land is $30,000.
The cabin itself is $20,000. The whole project will be about $100,000.
Okay. So walk this out.
What if there's two scenarios? One is you aggressively pay down your house. So you take the $100,000, knock your mortgage down to $47,000.
How quickly could you pay off the remaining $47,000? It would be a few years. A few years?

Two years. Two years.
Okay. So two years from now, you begin saving up for this new $100,000

land and cabin project. That, I'm guessing, could be done in another four years or less?

Presumably so, you know, with raises and whatnot. Yeah, probably.
So six years from now, how old

are you?

That would put me at 35.

Both of us at 35.

That feels like a more peaceful path to me personally.

Is getting our primary house paid off,

then we save up and purchase the toy

and have this cabin dream.

Is there going to be less land?

Is it going to be maybe a little more?

Sure.

Have you ever lived in the woods, dude?

I've spent a lifetime in the woods, yeah.

Okay. I grew up in the woods.
Would you consider selling your primary residence to move to the woods? No. Okay.
Yeah, dude, I've got a thing in my guts. I love the woods, but more so than the woods, I like having a house that nobody can ever, ever take away from me.
And six years is going to fly by. Yeah, as a hedge.
And man, if it really means a lot to you, you can save up and get 30,000 bucks. I think y'all can knock that out.
Thanks for the call. This is The Ramsey Show.
From Ramsey Network, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell, joined by bestselling author Dr.
John Beloni, and we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Don't be shy.
Give us a call, and we'll help you take the right next step for your life and your money. Robert is going to kick us off this hour in Chicago.
Robert, welcome to the show. You with us? Yes, sir.
I'm here. Hey, how can we help? Yeah, so basically what I'm wondering is my wife and I, we bought a car in basically the beginning of COVID, got it for a 0% interest rate, which was great.
I would consider ourselves living by the Ramsey principles

like paying off debt, avoiding know, I would consider ourselves living by the Ramsey principles, like paying off, um, you know, avoiding debt, saving up all the things, um, was wondering if we were better off paying off the vehicle that we have with a 0% interest loan or just continue to pay it off because it's not costing us any money.

Um, you know,

What do you mean it's not costing you money?

For the loan.

Like you're saying because the interest isn't there?

Because that payment is costing you.

There's opportunity cost in paying a payment.

Absolutely.

Okay.

How much money do you have saved up?

Well, so that's the thing.

We're buying another car this weekend, but we're doing it in cash.

Okay.

So not going into debt. But we have about $80,000 saved up.
And then we'll have the delta of that would be basically our emergency fund. So just wondering if we dip into that or pay it off.
Well, what would you consider your emergency fund? Give me a number. $30 to $40.
Okay. So let's say you have $40 to spend on this car.
What's your household income? Over $200, probably. Awesome.
Okay, and what's this car going to cost you that you're about to buy? $50. $50? $1,000.
Okay. So I'd leave you with 30 for your emergency fund, 50 for the car.
And what's your car worth that you have the 0% loan on? So honestly, we bought it brand new. So it was like 0% interest for seven years.
And we put a pretty good bit down on it. So I don't know what it's worth at the 2020 Jeep Grand Cherokee, but there's like 11,000 left on it.
So we'd have it paid off in March of 2027. Cool.
Yeah. I mean, I'd get rid of the loan and the truth with these 0% loans are that they charge you top dollar.
The dealerships are going to make their money. And so there's a reason they

can offer these 0% loans, and they are the ones winning. In the payment, what is the payment on this car? $3.85 a month.
So that $3.85 that you'll free up that you can now use to do whatever, I'm guessing invest for the future, will pay dividends more than paying down an asset that going down in value. Totally fair.
I mean, I plan on having this car for at least another six years, then hopefully longer. We are having a kid in the next month or so.
So again, trying to like just figure, I know lots of adulting, so trying to figure out and... Are you about to go buy a brand new car? I feel like you guys like brand new cars.
You cannot settle for the 2023. It's simply too old.
Do you guys have a net worth of a million dollars or more? No. Okay.
I personally, I would caution you against purchasing a brand new car. Please don't.
It will lose 10% of the value as soon as you drive it off the lot and 60% over the next five years. Think about it this way.
When you own that Jeep Grand Cherokee, that's what you're lighting on fire in the parking lot of the car dealership when you drive off the new car. Because if you drove it on the block and drove it right back and sold it, they'd buy it back for about $11,000 less.
So that's what you're going to light on fire in their parking lot. You don't have the kind of money to do that.
Dave Ramsey does, you don't. So the reason for that parameter of only buy a new car if you're a net worth millionaire is that too much of your world is wrapped up in cars until you have the net worth to stomach it.
And you guys are doing great. Let me just say, Robert, you guys are crushing it.
You have an amazing income. You're going to get this debt paid off.
And very soon you'll be, you can buy new cars for the rest of time once you hit that millionaire status. But right now I would go, hey, can we buy a two-year-old car and save in the delta of what we save? We can use to pay off my car instantly.
Done. You can have them both done this weekend.
Before we have the baby here, that would be a cool feeling. Wouldn't it? Fair.
Yeah, that makes sense. And there's a rumor going around that I can dispel for you because both George and I have lived it.
New babies can drive around town in used cars. And I didn't believe it to be true because it says it on the internets.
But both of our kids have done it, right? That's right. All of them.
My wife, we got, Robert, when we had our first kid, my wife finally upgraded her car. We'd sacrificed for long enough.
We paid cash for a nice car for her. And even then, I was like, I'm going to let someone else take the depreciation on these luxury cars.
And so we saved upwards of, I don't know, 10 or 20 grand just by buying slightly used. But I saw a child seat in your 300-year-old Tesla the other day.
That's right. 11 years old and it still carries child.
Amazing. So here's the deal, Robert.
I would look at a $39,000 out-the-door price for this new-to-you car and I'd use the other $11,000 you were going to spend and pay off your car today. Not the answer you were hoping for, but that's what John and I would personally do for our fans in our in my in my life if i was in your in your seat i do that exact same thing and a forty thousand dollar paid for cash car is nothing to sneeze at that's a nice car sure totally fair you're gonna do great with it and i love the idea of a baby coming into the world with parents who make uh almost a quarter million dollars and don't owe anybody anything.
That's just a cool... It's a stress-free home or a stress...
It's got less stress in it. Stress-less free home.
And dude, I just... For that little baby's nervous system, man, it just seems like a pretty sweet gift.
Hope that helps. I don't think it's what he wanted to hear, but it's what he heard.
Funruiner.com slash org. Let's see if we can help Grace out real quick.
Grace, can you get right to the question? We're up against the clock. Hey, guys.
Thanks for having me. So after college, I started with a financial advisor.
I was making 75K and I got a million dollar term policy.

Everything I read, that was a good decision.

A year in, he says, oh, we're going to start this new investment vehicle and we're going to convert.

And I didn't know it was a conversion dropping my million to 700,000.

And I've been getting into like emails with him and conversations.

And he is just anti me canceling the policy and taking it into who is this person i i can disclose the name no i mean like is this your insurance person because you should fire them they work for you yeah fire them i know yeah so surrender get term life in place go go to zander.com and get Term Life in place. They'll shop the top companies for

you. Get Term Life back in place and then surrender the whole life policy and be very firm.
I'm not

asking you. I'm not looking for your opinion.
I'm looking to surrender this policy. I'm done doing

business with you. Yeah.
And I guess my thought is, can I just, at this point, I can't even contact

him without him actually trying to sell me more whole life and more of a conversion at this point. Can I just go through the insurance company, surrender it, and then start investing in it, and just kind of send him an email saying, I'm done working with you.
I'm tired of this. Yeah.
I mean, you don't have to make it emotional. Just say, hey, I've surrendered the policy.
That's it. I'm done.
I've moved on. I've got term life through a separate company.

Yeah. And then I have like two of the disability policy through him.
I'm probably just going to get rid of all that. Don't do business with unethical people.
Yeah. Don't do business that want to take advantage of what they see as an easy target and a young professional woman.
I don't do, don't, don't work with people who treat you like that. Good for you.
Time to move on. This is the Ramsey show.
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That's betterhelp.com slash Deloney. People ask me all the time, George, what's your number one money-saving hack? I'm glad you asked.
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So what are you doing still listening to me? Go download the EveryDollar app for free and start saving more money right now. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show.
I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney.
Anne is up next in Boston, Massachusetts. A little stomping grounds.
What's going on, Anne? Hi, thank you for taking my call. Good afternoon.
Good to have you. How can we help? Yeah, so I've listened to your show for a very long time, and I actually started following Ramsey in the early 2000s and succeeded in having some decent financial security.
And then, yeah, about five years ago, my husband suddenly passed away. Oh, my goodness.
Yeah. How old was he? 59.
So, you know, it was just a bummer because we were planning, you know, we had educated our kids. We were making good headway on finances, our home, we were planning a future.
So I went into like a state of just craziness. I don't know what you call it, but I'm very angry.
Yeah, very angry. And I actually donated a lot of money and I spent our emergency fund money and I charged up $37,000 worth of credit card debt.

Wow.

And so I'm back to replenishing my emergency money and I'm getting rid of my credit cards, consolidating back to the baby steps. But my question is, I have, I feel like my situation is so awkward because I have $1.1 million in my retirement account.
I'll be secure when I retire because I'll have two pensions. And how old are you? I'm 63.
So this is my question. I have two more years of working full-time, and I plan on, I'd like to go part-time.
I'm a nurse, and I'd like to go part-time at 65. Should I plan to just go back to baby steps and pay off my credit cards with my working income now as fast as I can, or should I just take some money from my retirement and get that off my plate? Like, I don't know which is the best way to handle it.
What's your total debt right now? $37,000. Do you have a mortgage? Yes.
What's left on that? I'm sorry, I have 97. Okay.
So when I fully retire, I'll have that paid. That'll be paid in four years.
Okay. So should you use your working income in the future to pay this off or take some out of retirement? It's not a lot.
You're taking that 1.1 million and taking 37. I mean, the ratio here is small.
But here's what I love about you using future income. You will never go into debt again when you have to make those extra payments on those credit cards.
And I would encourage you to cut them up after. So from a math standpoint, you could take retirement money and pay this off today and be done with it.
But I want to see your habits change forever. And that's where

paying off this debt with future income, you'll feel that more. And I think adding friction back into your life is what's going to cause you to make better decisions in the future.
That's one man's take. Yeah, that's my gut feeling.
But I'm like, am I being stupid financially, though, because I do have the money, but I do want to make it uncomfortable for myself. I think discomfort is undervalued in today's world.

Yeah. I do have the money, but I do want to make it uncomfortable for myself.
I think discomfort is undervalued in today's world.

Yeah.

I think we've been comfortable for too long.

What do you think, John?

Yeah, yeah.

Anne, will you do me a favor?

Yes.

This is kind of a weird request.

Okay.

Are you holding anything in either of your hands?

No, but I'm kind of nervous. I'm shaking my legs.
Am I making a lot of noise? Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm hard as you can together. Okay.
Squeeze them really tight. Three.
Yeah. Two, and then let them go.
Open them up gently, okay? Mm-hmm. And your shoulders are pretty high right now because you're nervous.
I want you to pull them all the way down. Consciously pull them down, okay? Yep.
Okay, done. What, can you see me or something? No, I can hear you.
We're always watching. Listen.
Okay. What was your husband's name? Bill.
He just up and passed passed away didn't he yeah and you miss him like bloody hell great guy oh he was my soulmate okay can i tell you you're allowed to be mad at stinking bill and when you get to the gates he's going to get an earful from that's fine okay no and can i tell you something yeah he gonna be waiting there for you hollering at you to hurry up and quit taking so long i know can I tell you something? Yeah. He going to be waiting there for you, hollering at you to hurry up and quit taking so long?

I know.

And can I tell you something else?

What?

When he passed away, the world got real gray and you bought some stuff.

Who gives a crap?

Will you quit beating yourself up over that?

I know.

I am.

Today.

Terrible.

Today we're done. If he was sitting right next to you, he'd say,

Ann, quit.

Oh, my gosh.

Quit talking about it, wouldn't he?

Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah.

And it was mostly for my grandkids, my kids.

I know.

You know what you tried to do with your pain?

You tried to be in service to other people.

Mm-hmm.

Good.

I can think of a lot of worse vices that you could have gotten into after losing an arm and a leg and part of your heart. Yeah.
Okay? So quit beating yourself up. You're a millionaire because of the life you and Bill created.
You're going to get this debt paid off. You're not as scared of hard work.
You're not scared of putting a couple of small hurdles in front of you. You're an amazing 62-year-old woman.
Oh, my God. This is such a nice phone call.
It's not what I expected. I know.
But listen, every day you wade in to the craziness of hurting people, and you bring them a little piece, don't you? Mm-hmm. Okay, at least commit for the rest of today to give yourself that piece because you're worth that too thank you you promise i really appreciate that yeah because financially i have felt a lot of shame i know no dude you know what happened if my wife up and passed away do you know what happened You would see the supernova from Boston.

I can tell you right now, I would not

make a string of good choices back to back to back

to back.

He was such a good guy.

Yeah, you do feel like you lost

your better half.

What's the funniest, what's the hardest

he ever made you laugh?

Oh my God.

He was always making me laugh.

He used to dance around the house

Thank you. What's the hardest he ever made you laugh? Oh, my God.
He was always making me laugh. He used to dance around the house, you know, just.
Whoa, and this is a family show. What are you doing? He would dance around the house.
Oh, I have all these funny videos of him. Yeah, he was just a great guy.
Yeah. All right.
Well, that joy and that light is still sitting inside your chest. And I want you to quit covering it up with shame because you spent some money and gave some money away after he passed away.
Okay? We're done with that now. Yep.
So paying off these credit cards with your future income, this is not a punishment to Ann because she's made bad decisions. This is a gift to herself.
Yeah. I feel good with that.
I feel really good with that because my husband and I worked so hard to save up that money and it would be like just very defeating. It would just make me feel bad that I took that money.
I mean, I read Dave Ramsey's first book in 2002, and I remember I was just a new nurse putting $10 a week into my retirement account thinking, this can't possibly give me that much money. And now you got $1.1 million at $63,000.
And you go, oh, I guess it does something. It does.
And I never stopped contributing. I never segued when the markets crashed.
I just didn't even look at it. And one day I turned around and I had 800,000 in my account.
I couldn't believe it. But of course, it's been 39 years.
So that's right. For just for just this moment.
And I'm glad. I'm glad that our paths crossed today.
My life is going to be a little bit brighter because I got to talk to you. Thank you so much.
And selfishly, as a guy from the South Shore, I just miss a good Boston accent, Anne. I know.
It really did something for me. If you were in a Harvard bar having a lager right now, it would make me feel a lot better.
I'm going to eat some clam chowder tonight in your honor. Yeah, get some clam chowder for sure.
Oh, that warmed my heart. Oh, great.
Oh, I feel so much better. I'm, you know, even though I have to struggle and pay for this, I feel much better with that decision.
Thank you. You're doing everything right.
You're on the right path. Man, creating a new picture of what's next as my Dr.
John would say. It's not the one you had in your mind, not the one you and Bill created, but everyone listening is proud of you.
They're cheering you on for this next chapter of your life, and you're entering into it with freedom. No debt with the beautiful memory of this man who made you the woman you are.
Thanks for the call, Ann. This is The Ramsey Show.
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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr.
John Deloney. Today's question of the day is brought to you by Y-Refi.
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Today's question comes from Andrea in Arkansas. My husband's mom inherited the family hunting ranch.
Oh, I would love to get this call one day, which is worth about a million dollars. My husband and I pay most of the expenses.
We use our personal equipment to maintain it, and we are the ones who schedule and host hunters. I also handle all the bookkeeping.
Andrea, call me. So I told my mother-in-law that an LLC needs to be created for the amount of business we do.
She met with her attorney, and now the ranch is now only in hers and my husband's name. I feel like she's trying to cause a rift between my husband and me.
I'm trying not to judge their family history, but every one of the other four kids are divorced. This seems to be her way of creating an easy way out of it if we were to divorce.
My husband and I have a strong relationship and he assures me not to worry because this will change nothing in our marriage but i'm the one doing all the leg work and hoping this doesn't mess up our relationship am i wrong for voicing my opinion in this matter what happens if my husband unexpectedly passed away we have two questions we have two kids that will need to be cared for and we earn nothing from the ranch that those last four words tell me a whole lot we are's really the resentment. She's putting a whole lot of work in.
She's getting zero dollars for it and her name's not attached to it. So there seems to be that's all playing into this picture.
Yeah, this is a mess. They use their personal equipment to maintain it.
They're the ones scheduling, doing all that she's doing, the bookkeeping, and she's the one handling, telling the mother-in-law to meet with this person.

And I personally don't know the full story. I don't know if the mother-in-law is being malicious,

if this is really a strategic move. This was inherited family land and property that she inherited.
So the daughter-in-law doesn't have a right to this land, even though she's doing work

for this property.

Right.

And I,

yeah, so there's multiple things

happening here,

I think, George.

I think,

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I think, I think, I think,'s multiple things happening here, I think, George. I think one of them is you're running a business that doesn't make any money.
Stop. Stop running a business that doesn't make money.
Who is making the money? That's the question. The only thing I could think of.
She said we earn nothing. So, like like the husband, she's not getting anything.
The husband's not...

Is mom making all the money?

Yeah.

So if husband is using all of his tools and stuff like that to help because he wants to

help out mom and he's the one good kid.

He's the...

All the other kids are divorced and causing problems and he's the one good kid.

So he's just going to dump some money into this thing.

That's one thing.

If it's mom's property and she wants to bring on your husband as a co-owner of an LLC in case she passes away, it's easy to go to him. I wouldn't lose sleep over that.
But the fact that you're asking this question tells me there's something else going on here. And if you had trust in your mother-in-law because of the way she has treated you in the past and this came up, you wouldn't think twice about it, right? If my in-laws, one of my in-laws, my father-in-law or my mother-in-law was to do a joint venture with my wife that I helped with, I wouldn't think twice about it because I trust both of them implicitly forever.
This tells me there's other trust issues and that mom's maybe been trying to cut you out for a long time and this is another way she kind of edge anyway whole thing's messy so i would ask this way number one um if your husband likes hunting on this property and it's fun and he likes doing it and he likes to make a little side muscle uh side money bringing in hunters in y'all figured that out even if you bring in side money and all it does is pay the taxes on the land and pays for the feeders. Fine.
If husband's trying to do this to win mom's favor, and maybe one day she'll leave it to him, hopefully if she, and now we're getting into messy stuff. And if you're running a business that's not earning anything, you'll need to have that conversation.
Yeah. Whole thing's a mess.
But I want to go back to this one question here. Am I wrong for voicing my opinion on this matter? If you are a part of a marriage where both people have a voice and both people can be heard and to say what's on their hearts and on their minds, no, no.
If you have voiced your opinion and your husband said, I don't care, don't worry about it, then nagging or complaining or going to war is not going to solve the problem. Then your marriage has deeper issues, which is your husband doesn't really care what your opinion is on these matters.
He's going to do what he's going to do. You only need to address that core issue, right? Yeah.
And talk to him. You said, what happens if my husband unexpectedly passed away? Figure out what the will looks like and what the estate planning journey looks like and what will happen with this LLC that he's a part of.
I think you have a right to know what would happen there. But I also wouldn't, I feel like there's just more resentment here because of the effort she's putting in.
So maybe she goes, I'm going to back out of this and y'all can hire a bookkeeper. That's exactly right.
You can hire a bookkeeper. You can hire somebody who is booking these hunts.
I'm going to step out and just be with the kids. There you go.
And it's not a job. It's not like we're going to lose money on it.
And y'all knock your lights out if that's something y'all want to do on the side. Not much to lose here.
All right. Let's go to the phones.
Daniel is in Cleveland up next. What's going on, Daniel? Hi.
Thanks guys for taking my call. Sure.
How can we help? So I'm 23 years old. My wife is 24.
We have a three-month-old daughter. My wife stays at home.
I'm a nurse. Our yearly income is probably around $60,000.
We bought a house around six months ago. We have about $150,000 loan at like 5.6% interest, I think.
So my question is, we have about $100,000 in a high yield savings account. I mean, it looks like we'll end up getting another $100,000 from like an inheritance, basically, within the next month.
We have zero debt. I'm just, I guess, just like looking forward, I guess, should I be paying off my home? I just don't know exactly, I guess, what to do with the money.
I just don't want it to sit there. Yeah.
So the $100,000 and the high yield, does that include your emergency fund? Is that built into that? Yeah, that's built into that. Yes.
Okay. So what number would that be? Let's separate it out.
I think probably around 20,000. Okay.
So 80,000 is freed up. You've got 100 coming in from the inheritance.
You owe 150 on the mortgage. I would pay off the house as soon as that inheritance comes in.
Okay. That's going to lower your expenses.
You've got a stay-at-home wife. It's going to free you up with more margin to build wealth,

to give, to up the lifestyle, whatever it is you want to do with that. But that's absolutely what I would do, especially as you filter it through the baby steps.
Are you guys currently investing

15% of your income? No, we're not. So I haven't invested anything yet.
I'm just starting to try

to... I honestly haven't listened to Dave Ramsey much other than in the last few months.

Cool. Welcome to the cult, brother.
We're glad you're here. That means you're trying to better your finances and your family's future.
So I love that. So I would begin, I'm sure as a nurse, you have a retirement plan, right? Yeah, I think they match like, I think, 4% on a 401k.
So I need to do that. And then my wife actually has a Roth IRA that her father set up a long time ago.
She hasn't put much money into it since then, but it hasn't been building. You can deposit money into there because of a spousal Roth IRA.
So even if that spouse isn't working because she's married to you, you can have that earned income from you going into that account. So you could max out two Roth IRAs.
You could put the 4% to get the match, and invest that way.

And I'll walk you through this in my book, Breaking Free from Broke, and show you that path to building wealth. So I'll send you a copy of that, but the spark notes here is I'd get that house paid off.
What's your mortgage payment? It's around $1,200. Okay, so I'm guessing principal and interest of that is a big chunk.
Oh, yeah. I mean, I think we're paying $800 in interest, just the way that they set up the loan.
Dude, what a gift to be 23 and 24 and not a payment in the world with plenty of money in the bank. If you just keep living like that, you're going to be a multimillionaire giving very generously.
You know what? If you pay the house off tomorrow, you just got a raise to $72,000 a year. Yeah, because of the, it makes sense.
I mean, I guess like for us, I'm just feel like I'm at somewhat of a pivotal point because I'm just don't know exactly what I want to do. I also am thinking about going back to school to try to increase, obviously, our yearly income.

I'm really hoping my wife can continue to stay home long term. Well, no house payment with money in the bank.
You can do anything you want. And it'll give you the margin to do that without needing seven side jobs so you can be there with those young kids.
Bro, you don't have a house payment. This is a great place to be.
You won. You won.
If you don't screw this up and go take out stupid student loans because, well, if you're an anesthesiologist, don't take out any loans. Grind it.
Take this extra money and spend it. Invest it in yourselves.
Bro, George, you're right, dude. You won.
You won. If you never have a payment again at 23 years old, you're going to be just fine, my man.
Thanks for the call. This is The Ramsey Show.
I talk to people every day who want to know how to do better in two areas, money and relationships. That's why I'm pumped to bring the Money and Relationships Tour to a city near you.
Join me and Dr. John Deloney for a night that will challenge the way you think about this stuff and possibly change how you live

forever. Starting April 21st, we'll be in Louisville, then on to Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth, and Kansas City.
Grab your tickets at RamseySolutions.com slash tour before they're gone. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show.
I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney.
Open phones at 888-825-5225. We just launched a brand new tour with Dave Ramsey and Dr.
John Deloney. They're hitting the road with the Money and Relationships Tour.
They're going to Louisville on April 21st, Durham on April 23rd, Atlanta April 25th, Phoenix on May 5th, Fort Worth on May 7th, and ending in Kansas City on May 9th. And here's what's cool about this event.
I don't know how they're doing it, John, but they're going to let the audience choose the topics that you guys talk about. Do you know how they're doing this? What magic, what sorcery is this? Well, yeah, it's going to be pretty chaotic.
I'm laughing. You and I are one of just a few people on the planet who knows what it's like sitting next to dave not knowing what he's gonna say next and uh not knowing what's gonna come out of his mouth and then he looks at you and says your turn yep and so yeah i haven't been nervous for an event in a fun way like it's gonna be kind of wheels off who knows what's gonna happen yeah but i'll'll put a QR code up on the wall and they'll have topics and people get to write in.

And we kind of just vote.

And then based on consensus,

it is game on.

We can talk about intimacy or wealth building

or whatever.

Who knows?

Talk about retirement and sex

and marriage communication.

And where else can you get that in one room

in one night?

That's amazing.

Oh, man.

Grab your tickets.

Money and Relationships Tour. Dave and Dr.
John. RamseySolutions.com slash tour.
And if you're tuning in on YouTube or podcast, click the link in the show notes. Madison is up next in Hartford, Connecticut.
What's going on, Madison? Hey, so I want to thank you for taking my call. Sure.
So I'm currently 24. I just started my second nursing job after graduating college.
Awesome. I will preface by saying that I am in some debts from going to school and like a car loan.
But with benefits and then being so overwhelming and confusing, I do have a few questions. Okay.
So with my employer, they have a 6% match on my retirement. And even though I have some debts, I assume that I should contribute that amount.
Be careful with assumptions. I know, right? Okay.
But I guess, depending on the answer to that question, my second piece is, is they offer it as like pre-tax or in a Roth? Yep. I guess if you want to, I can stop there.
The second part's kind of something different as another benefit.

Okay.

So your number one question is, should I contribute to this even though I have debt?

Yes.

Okay.

The not fun answer is that I would pause all investing until you knock out all of this debt

for two reasons.

Number one, it's going to give you back 6% of your annual income to tackle the debt faster,

right?

Okay. And number two, it's going to put a fire under you to get rid of that debt really fast because you want to get to that investing and get to that free money.
And as humans, we kind of need to have this carrot dangling in front of us. Otherwise, we get comfortable doing 17 things and not making progress on any of it.
So what is your gross income? Personally income? I personally would be able to 70 before overtime. 70.
Okay. So 6%, that's 4,200 a year.
That's 350 a month. So you'll have 350 back in your paycheck to attack debt.
What's your total debt load? About 20,000 in student debt and 12 in a car loan. Okay.
So you got $32,000 in debt. You make $70,000.
How aggressively can we pay this off? My guess is 18 months. Yeah, I'd say I paid $10,000 off my car last year.
Boom. So, like, I think that'll be a little bit next time next year.
If you do it George and John's way, this debt is going to be gone in 18 months, so that puts you at 25 years old, and now you're investing 15% instead of the measly match, which is what most people do for their whole life. They can never get above the match.
They don't have the money. Right? For sure.
So now imagine you're making more money. You're investing 15%, which is 10,500.
So now you're investing 875 instead of 350 for the rest of your life. So when it comes to that time, because 18 months, we all know, just flies by.
Should that be in the pre-tax retirement or the Roth? I would personally go Roth. And it's a simple reason.
You're going to use after-tax money. So you won't get the deduction on your, you know, when you do your taxes like you would with traditional side.
But that money, you already paid Uncle Sam. So it's going to grow tax-free and you can withdraw it tax-free.
So if you have, let's say you retire, when you do your taxes like you would with traditional side, but that money you already paid Uncle Sam. So it's going to grow tax free and you can withdraw it tax free.
So if you have, let's say you retire, I'm going to say you're 24 years old. Let's say you start investing at 25, you work till 62 and you never get a raise after putting in that, you know, 875 or whatever.
Well, guess what? You're going to have $5.4 million. And if you're in traditional, you've got to pay taxes on that money as you withdraw it.
But if it's Roth, you have $5.4 million of take-home pay, of net income. You see the difference? Oh, for sure.
And that's why I was confused where I should start now, even though it wouldn't be at 15%. And that's my, like, my fiance and I's finances are totally separate.
Good. As it should be.
Until you're married, don't combine. Can I ask you a crazy question, Madison? Sure.
Go for it. Have you, and you've been in job one and now you're in job two.
Have you been in a room when a doctor flew by and said, do this, this, and this, and your first thought was, uh. Oh, for sure.
That's why I'm on the phone with you now. There you go.
So here's what I want. I'm going to come to you as a nurse one day holding the most precious thing in the world to me, and that's my daughter.
Or I'm going to come in holding my son, and I'm going to be using superhuman strength because he's humongous. And I'm going to look at you and I'm going to say, help.
And I would much rather make eye contact with somebody who is completely free. Doesn't owe anybody anything who can say, I can help your kid.
I would much rather that interaction than somebody who says, well, we're going to have to run you through the whatever spectrometer because this is the plan. Because, you know, I got to pay these credit card bills and I got to follow the...
You see what I'm saying? Oh, for sure. I want a health professional that is free to do the right thing in the right moment.
Not somebody's got to think through a whole bunch of filters because a bank owns their next move. And so I want you to think about being 26 and 25.
You don't owe anybody anything. You know what you can do the next day? Whatever you want.
And the day after that, whatever you want. Perfect.
You see what I'm saying? And then George just gave you the roadmap. Just your you the roadmap just your salary alone five million dollars and that's if you never get a raise which you sound like you're an incredible nurse you're going to go places you're going to make more money over time we'll always need nurses and so that's just goes to show you if you can if you get this debt out of your life it's going to free up margin for the rest of your life yes and so you'll save up and pay cash for your next car you'll never go into student loan debt again you'll cut up the credit cards you use your own money because you don't need a bank you don't need a lender oh for sure never touch the credit card don't plan on it awesome okay there's gonna come a moment when you're gonna want to go someone's gonna at your office is gonna say hey is going to say, hey, we have this little program.
It costs $25,000 or $50,000. You can go be a nurse practitioner.
We want you to, we've seen you. We want you to do it.
And it starts in the fall. I want you and your husband to be in a place where you all have that money saved up because you know that it's going to come.
So start saving for now. Okay.
You said you had one more question. I don't want to leave you hanging.
Yeah, yeah. so the second part i i kind of get the gist now um but it was the hsa that my work offers as well so they they contribute every year 750 dollars when they just say to anybody that takes the health insurance plan awesome i'd 100 do that well yeah so obviously the free money is super smart um my other piece is is so i have approximately like a hundred dollars in medical bills that are like, um, that I could use SHSA for every month.
Yeah. Um, due to like a predisposed condition.
Um, and so I'm wondering if like, I know I shouldn't be investing and I know at a thousand dollars I can be invested and so on. Um And I'll have this bill, these medical bills, at approximately $100 a month for the rest of my life.
So should I, I guess I'm asking, should I be putting enough in there to pay for my $100 a month so that it's coming out pre-tax? Sure. Yeah, that'd give you the most benefit.
Okay. It's going to be a light bill for you.
It's like getting a 15 or 20% discount on that bill every month by running it through the HSA. And then eventually, after this debt is cleared, be contributing more to that.
Max the whole thing out. Yeah.
My goal for you would be once you've got 15%, you're debt free, you got the emergency fund, then beyond the 15% retirement investing, max out your HSA every year as a kind of a bonus retirement account one day. And at 65, you can use it as a traditional 401k for non-medical expenses.
You'll have to pay taxes on that if it's not for medical, but that's kind of a cool, fun fact about the HSA. So great call, Madison.

I'm proud of you.

24 years old to be asking these questions tells me that you're going to be just fine.

And I'm really proud of you.

Get your fiance on board and you guys will be going places and building wealth together.

This is The Ramsey Show.

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Yep, you heard me right, for free. Then right there on the home screen, you can watch the rest of today's show.
Bada bing, bada boom. All right,

I'm getting out of here. Enjoy.
We'll see you on the app.