Money Is About More Than Math, You Can’t Put Peace Into a Formula

Speaker 1 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships.

Speaker 1 I am Rachel Cruz, hosting this hour with my good friend and best-selling author, Dr. John Deloney.

Speaker 1 And we'll be answering answering your questions all about life, money, relationships, anything and everything. So give us a call at 888-825-5225.
We're going to start off with Greg in Houston, Texas.

Speaker 1 Hey, Greg, welcome to the show.

Speaker 2 Hello, thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 Absolutely. How can we help?

Speaker 2 So my wife and I ran into a situation with family and we wanted to know if we are wrong or selfish for not allowing our family members to come and use our vehicle for two weeks in conjunction with their holiday visit plans.

Speaker 6 God, what a jerk, Greg.

Speaker 6 No.

Speaker 6 Yeah, I'm totally kidding. Why would you think you're in the wrong there?

Speaker 3 Well,

Speaker 2 we live far away. They haven't seen us in a while.

Speaker 4 We have a new baby due.

Speaker 2 And all of those are kind of some of the circumstances that led us to feel bad because we do want to see them, but it was contingent on how did they approach it?

Speaker 1 Was it that they're flying in and they don't want to rent a car for two weeks? Or

Speaker 1 what's the scenario?

Speaker 2 Yes, it was a little bit of like their financial planning. And they said, hey, we want to come see you.
And we're going to fly in. We'll spend a couple of days for you.

Speaker 3 But

Speaker 2 if it's okay, no worries if it's not. But we would like to use your vehicle for a couple of weeks to go around.

Speaker 2 the state of Texas, see other family, and then we'll bring it back and then leave for a little bit and fly back to their home. And my my wife had the call with her family and immediately said,

Speaker 2 we really don't feel comfortable, but I'll talk to Greg and see.

Speaker 2 And ultimately, we were very aligned, but it put her in that awkward position. We're not going to see family for the holidays with the new baby.

Speaker 6 But they said,

Speaker 6 since we can't borrow your car for our Texas tour,

Speaker 6 we're not coming at all. Forget you guys? Correct.
Well, dude, that's all you need to know.

Speaker 1 well because they can't afford i guess to

Speaker 6 but they can they can afford to come visit yeah yeah yeah but they can't well they're not gonna come if they can't turn it into like a multi a multi-family tour right and you're not gonna foot the bill for their vehicle right okay yeah yeah you're good craig

Speaker 1 and let me i hate that it does it does make you feel like it like i understand even the question greg because i probably would feel that way of like golly i feel bad so my wife is literally due a week from today so we he was hoping that we'd see family during the holiday.

Speaker 2 And so it made her stressed out. And we were aligned.
But

Speaker 2 we just now were like, well, we made the decision. And they said, well, we're not going to be able to come.
And, you know, we just wanted to double check.

Speaker 2 And we felt like that answer you gave us was right. But, you know, there's still that gut feeling of like, man, we really wish we could have done something different.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 6 I guess what I really wish is I really wish, A,

Speaker 6 her parents or her family wanted to actually see this newborn. They don't.
They wanted to use this newborn as an excuse to come to town so they could take a tour. I mean, the whole thing's just silly.

Speaker 6 But, like, the meta here is, and by the way, you're going to face this for the rest of your time together.

Speaker 6 Different family members who want to use you guys for their different expectations or their different pictures of what they want their life to look like.

Speaker 6 Just make peace with whatever boundary feels right to you guys. Y'all get to do that.
And whether I think it's stupid or Rachel thinks it's stupid, it doesn't matter. And it's what works for you guys.

Speaker 6 And almost every boundary comes with a cost.

Speaker 6 Yeah.

Speaker 6 And just stinks sometimes, man.

Speaker 1 I hate it for you.

Speaker 1 Well, and I think it would be another thing, Greg, if they're like, hey, we're coming in, you know, one of the evenings, we're going to drive and see some of our friends, whatever, whatever, down the street.

Speaker 1 Can we use your car for that night? Or you know what I mean? Like if it's

Speaker 1 like a 24-hour thing, I don't know. But for a week? Two weeks.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Five days and beyond, you're like, no, like we we need our car.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And we're actually plugging along with our baby steps. And both of our cars are paid off.
And they have, mine has over $200,000. My wife's has over $100,000.
So they're due for maintenance.

Speaker 2 And we're like, we don't even really drive our cars like that.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 2 we just were worried, like, if there is a maintenance issue, and now we're working on our emergency savings buildup, now we're going to have to offset that.

Speaker 2 And obviously, if they didn't have the funds to get a rental themselves, they're not going to be paying us for any.

Speaker 6 Yeah, but Greg, this isn't about a rental car yeah because it's not like rachel said it's not like they were gonna fly there and they just needed a car to get around town because then i would tell you dude you have two cars and your wife's not driving anywhere let them borrow your car

Speaker 6 this is they wanted to use your home

Speaker 6 as a as a landing place for them to take a two-week tour around the state And for those who don't know, Texas, you can drive 14 hours one direction and not get from one side to the other, right?

Speaker 1 And not see anyone in the process.

Speaker 6 Yeah, so it's not like you're going to like Rhode Island and you can make a lap around the whole state in an hour or two. This is like major travel, thousands of miles you're going to put on the car.

Speaker 6 I guess I want you guys to internalize they aren't not coming because they can't afford a rental car.

Speaker 6 They're not coming because you would not let them use your house as a landing pad for a big two-week vacation. And that's something to grieve.

Speaker 1 Yes. Right?

Speaker 6 Did your wife call them and say,

Speaker 6 are y'all seriously not coming to see the birth of your new grandchild?

Speaker 2 No, she has she has not done that.

Speaker 6 I'd recommend that.

Speaker 2 Additional conversation. Okay.

Speaker 6 I'd recommend it because here's why.

Speaker 6 Sometimes people put a boundary down and they get stuck. And then people respond to that boundary and they get stuck.

Speaker 6 And then you got two people making up stories about the other side of that boundary. And

Speaker 6 it's hard to go find an olive branch.

Speaker 6 And I always want to know if I have a boundary and somebody responds poorly to it, I always want to make sure that that they are responding in the way that I'm, I'm, the story I'm making up about them.

Speaker 6 Right. Right.
So are you guys really not going to come because of a car? Are y'all really not going to come because you can't turn this into a two-week vacation?

Speaker 6 I just want to clarify. You don't want to see the birth of your first grandkid because of this.
Is that what we're doing?

Speaker 6 And let them be adults and respond back.

Speaker 1 And it's not a guilt trip on them. It's a clarification.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's a clarification so that you, Greg, and your wife can get the full information from their side to say, okay, no, that's really what they're, yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean, as they stumble through figuring out their, their response to it, it's, yeah,

Speaker 1 I don't know. It gives you a level of clarity and a piece in the puzzle in this kind of conflict situation to say, okay, this is the truth and this is what I'm hearing from them.

Speaker 1 And now I can take it.

Speaker 6 And yeah, I was recently talking to a young professional and they

Speaker 6 got cross with a really close friend. And that really cross friend bombed a bunch of text messages in a way that was out of character.
And that person was clearly going through something else.

Speaker 6 And then there was kind of a caustic, like no-fly zone. And it got awkward and weird.
And then

Speaker 6 this young professional was like, oh, they told me I don't want to talk ever again.

Speaker 1 I said, I get that.

Speaker 6 This is your best friend. This is your old friend.

Speaker 6 It's been two or three weeks. Send a message that just says you miss them.
And if they're ever ready to talk, because it gives them a chance to go, okay, dude, I had a bad night.

Speaker 6 I sent a bunch of crazy things. I hung up the phone.
I got mad. Give them a path back.
And if they then don't respond, then all of your story, your story is a period at the end of it.

Speaker 6 You got to grieve it and then you got to go move on from there.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Okay.
In 20 seconds, John, talk through setting up a boundary with families because holidays are coming up. Yes.
What is it? Written down, clear, communicate. How you doing?

Speaker 6 In the Kolonia house, we write them down and we email them. By the way, there is a trend now, which is to cut off all family for any mean thing they said 25 years ago.

Speaker 6 If at all possible, if you can go see your family, be with your family.

Speaker 6 If you can find it in your heart to forgive yourself, don't go to abusive situations, of course.

Speaker 6 But if they have different politics than you or they eat weird food, go see your families for crying out loud. And just know it's not going to be perfect.

Speaker 1 That's good. This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 So the holiday season is here. Officially, we are in November.

Speaker 1 I'm about to put up my Christmas tree all next weekend. I can't wait.

Speaker 6 Is that like a controversy?

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Some people are like the anti before Thanksgiving.

Speaker 6 Oh, yeah. Yeah, you hate gratitude.
I forgot about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 That's not your thing.

Speaker 6 Just hate Thanksgiving.

Speaker 1 That's right. No, the

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Speaker 6 Go get it, guys.

Speaker 1 Up next, we have Jasmine in Long Island, New York. Hey, Jasmine, welcome to the show.

Speaker 3 Hi, Rachel. Hi, John.
How are you guys?

Speaker 1 Good. Doing great.
How can we help?

Speaker 3 I have a budgeting question.

Speaker 3 So right now with the holidays coming up, and in my life, all the birthdays just just pop up from September to December. But I'm also in baby step two.

Speaker 3 So I'm really just trying my question of how do I budget for stuff like that?

Speaker 3 I know it should be good intensity, so I don't know if I shouldn't be putting my thoughts into that and just not

Speaker 3 be budgeting for it or at all. So I'm not really entirely sure what to do.

Speaker 3 Yeah. I'm $32,000 in debt and I make around $70,000.

Speaker 3 I don't pay any rent or anything like that. Like I live at home.

Speaker 3 I started using the Every Dollar app

Speaker 3 last in September.

Speaker 1 Yep. And tell me about the

Speaker 1 who are the people in your life? Like, who's having the birthdays? And for Christmas, who would you be in charge of buying gifts for? Like, do you have kids of your own or these nieces and nephews?

Speaker 3 No, it was just my brother-in-law, my boyfriend, my stepmom.

Speaker 3 My best friend. And then Christmas, it would be just a, we're doing a secret Santa for Christmas.

Speaker 3 So I normally that's that's fine that I'll just do the secret Santa but I have like three secret Santa that I'm a part of whether that's at work and my group of friends at work or like my boyfriend and I exchange gifts or

Speaker 3 at a at my house we're doing a secret Santa but then I always end up like oh I really feel bad sure not getting this person something or they got me something it's like I also have okay we have church events that I want to go to like okay can I get my hair done stuff like that and it's unfortunately my hair is not cheap.

Speaker 1 Like I had to, I had to think of, I had to cut out a lot of things.

Speaker 3 And I just feel guilty.

Speaker 1 I feel like I

Speaker 1 think.

Speaker 1 So here's the deal. I think the, um, you're, you're looking at this a little bit of a short-term perspective.

Speaker 1 Like here in the next 60 days, here's all these things that I have to do and the people I have to buy for. Just remember that four years from now,

Speaker 1 no one's probably going to remember this Christmas, right?

Speaker 1 I mean, like, so if this Christmas looks different, which it's going to be, and it should, Jasmine, if you're on the, if you're doing the debt snowball, it's going to look different than Christmases when you weren't budgeting and when you were in debt and you weren't being intentional with your money.

Speaker 1 It's going to look different. So, how different is it going to look is the question?

Speaker 1 And I, I just, Jade Warshaw said this on the show last year, and I, I just own it too. I think adults don't need to buy adults gifts.
I think brother-in-law is fine.

Speaker 1 Like, brother-in-law has a job, hopefully, and can buy brother-in-law stuff, right?

Speaker 6 Like, forget you guys. I want gifts.
I want lots of gifts.

Speaker 1 No, I just lots of them. Because I hear people, Jasmine, all the time.
I mean, in a similar, similar situation as you, and they're like, well, my Aunt Rita.

Speaker 1 And I'm like, Aunt Rita can buy her own blender. Like, like, we don't need to be funding adults and like helping.
Do you know what I'm saying? Like, I understand the generosity piece. I get that.

Speaker 1 And if it's maybe something small and sentimental that meant something, maybe you saw a funny coffee mug and it was like, oh, that's funny because it's like the sense I joke and it's $7, right?

Speaker 1 Like, if you want to do something little but but this idea that we have to be somewhat even extravagant you know fifty dollars plus for adults in our lives I don't know I just don't I'm just not about it I'm not about it so and Jasmine we call her funruiner

Speaker 1 no I'm the no I'm the fun one out of every all the personalities so if I'm saying this

Speaker 1 so again

Speaker 3 in terms of

Speaker 3 like hair for example because I if I wanted to get my hair done if I needed a haircut like am I allowed to

Speaker 1 yeah do that? Yes, yes. I would say, you know, basic necessities, right, are going to be in your budget throughout

Speaker 1 this debt-free period. Now, is it, are you going to.
There's different versions of haircuts my wife gets. Don't, yeah.
I mean, I mean, I would say I wouldn't go.

Speaker 1 If I were getting out of debt, I would not pay for like an update, like to get it done for a party specifically.

Speaker 1 But if you have to get your hair cut and colored in life, I would put that in the budget. While I'm getting out of debt?

Speaker 6 I would not. Wait.

Speaker 1 Are you being for real? You would buy a brother-in-law a gift over.

Speaker 6 No, no, no, no. I was messing with you.

Speaker 1 No, okay. I was like, John.

Speaker 6 No, because here's the thing.

Speaker 6 And Jasmine, how old are you?

Speaker 3 I'm 22.

Speaker 6 Okay. This is the rest of your life.
There will always be another thing,

Speaker 6 right? So as soon as the new year comes around, there's going to be a

Speaker 6 something with the election. And then there's going to be a, we have to all go get drinks because we're sad or we're really happy.
And then there's going to be somebody's birthday.

Speaker 6 And then your nephew's going to have like a destination wedding cookies yeah that he wants you to order for school and to fund his clarinet program there's always going to be a thing and unless you draw a line in the sand and say right now i am broke

Speaker 6 because i my my net worth is negative

Speaker 6 Like I have less than zero when it comes to my name. I do have a salary that comes every month, but I have less than zero.

Speaker 6 Until you draw a line in the sand and say, I at least have to get to zero and get to where if anything happens to me, I'm going to be okay,

Speaker 6 then you're not in a place to buy gifts. And

Speaker 6 I'm just telling you this as I'm twice your age. I'm down the road.
There's just always, I feel like the older we get, the more these, we have to's just accelerate and accelerate.

Speaker 1 And the seasons get more expensive because it'll be friends getting married, bridesmaids, bachelorette parties, weddings, babies. I mean, like, yeah, the

Speaker 6 continuity. A cool thing, you want to find out if this dude's for real, your boyfriend? Tell him, we have to do the most loving gift for each other for the holidays, and it can cost no money.

Speaker 6 Competition on ready-go.

Speaker 6 Okay.

Speaker 3 And I have one more.

Speaker 1 I'm sorry that I was taking advantage. No, yeah.
No, that's why we're here.

Speaker 3 When I was budgeting,

Speaker 3 how do I do when there's like five paydays? I get paid every Thursday, and for example, October, I have five Thursdays in the month. Do I treat the last week a part of November?

Speaker 3 or because I'm not sure if I should see it as extra money or that I could put towards my third obviously or how do I really view that?

Speaker 1 Yes. So you would look before the month begins and see how many weeks are there and then total up how much am I going to make for that month.

Speaker 1 So October, when you were budgeting in September for October, you would have looked to see, to say, okay, we have five weeks in October coming in and I'm going to use

Speaker 1 that income of those five weeks to be the top of my October budget. So it doesn't matter when you get paid.
It's how much you get paid throughout the month.

Speaker 1 So some months you may get paid less because of where the payday hits within within the week. And if that week is technically this month or last month.
Does that make sense?

Speaker 3 So if I have like my insurance bill, for example, comes out on the on the second, that's before the payday in November.

Speaker 1 That's right. Would I take that? I would use

Speaker 1 October money then to fund that, to fund for the second. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Do you have every

Speaker 1 dollar premium, Jasmine?

Speaker 4 Yes.

Speaker 1 Okay. Yeah.
The paycheck planning part of every dollar premium is exactly what you're talking about. And that's going to help you if you go into that function.
I think it's only on desktop.

Speaker 1 So get on your laptop and do it.

Speaker 1 And it's able to, you're able to list out when all of your bills hit. So exactly like that, your insurance is like the second.

Speaker 1 You know, I know you don't have rents, but say you had a mortgage and it comes out the 10th. And then you have,

Speaker 1 you know, all your cable and electricity comes out the 20th. Like, so you're able to actually see when do bills hit? When does my paycheck come in?

Speaker 1 And do I have enough within that paycheck to fund that week or that two weeks to make sure that I don't go into the red.

Speaker 1 So the paycheck planning part of every dollar premium will help and it'll show you like green or red. Like it like literally walks you through it, which is so great.
So make sure to check that out.

Speaker 1 Thanks for the call.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. We're going to start off with James in Ontario, Canada.
Hey James, welcome to the show.

Speaker 1 Hello, how are you? Hi, we're doing well. How can we help?

Speaker 4 Well, okay, so I'm doing my first formal budget and I say formal because intuitively I had a good sense of what was going on from paycheck to paycheck, but this is the first time when what what

Speaker 4 got me into every dollar was something that you said when I first discovered you like last week, which was a budget enables you not to feel guilty

Speaker 4 about

Speaker 4 putting money aside for certain things.

Speaker 4 And I thought that I like that because I I always felt guilty saying, No, we can't do this, no, we can't do that, because I had an intuitive sense, which was roughly correct.

Speaker 4 So, my net income from my own income coming home is $3,600 a month, and pretty much all of that goes to the mortgage, groceries, etc.

Speaker 4 But then we have another $1,800 from our child benefit that we've been using to upgrade our house that we purchased in 2021

Speaker 4 because it's an old old house and so the windows needed doing so we did that and the the insulation needed doing we did that and it gets to minus 40 here so we needed to not freeze to death in the winter and now that those upgrades are done that child benefit of 1800 is effectively spare now and it just never occurred to me what to what to do with it.

Speaker 4 I just never had budgeted. I pretended like my income alone was the only income I had.
And now this is actually tripping me up.

Speaker 1 I actually have some money. I have some money.
It's a good problem, James. James, do you have any consumer debt?

Speaker 4 No, just the mortgage, $94,000 right now.

Speaker 1 Okay, good for you guys. Do you guys have money saved in the bank? Cash that you can get to?

Speaker 4 Yes. So

Speaker 4 we have about a $14,000 emergency fund.

Speaker 1 Great.

Speaker 4 And we have $20,000 just kind of sitting there waiting for something to do.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Good for you guys. So, yeah, I mean, if I were you in this situation, I would start investing.
You're at the point with investing. And I know some

Speaker 1 investments look different in Canada than here in America. But

Speaker 1 I would still reach for that 15% of your income. And so when you start doing that, some of that may be taken out of your paycheck if it's pre-tax or post-tax.
So I would account some of that.

Speaker 1 That will probably go into investing.

Speaker 1 Your kids, are they out of the house? Do you have one still living with you?

Speaker 4 Well, they're five, three, and one.

Speaker 1 Okay, oh, so you have little ones. Okay.
Have you guys?

Speaker 4 We have little ones and another one on the way.

Speaker 1 Okay, great.

Speaker 4 Like looking far into the future sure is part of how I want to arrange this. And

Speaker 4 another factor, this question is a bit too prong because part, like the other prong of this question is, Does it make sense to pay off the mortgage early?

Speaker 4 And the reason I'm asking that is when we first moved here I did what I thought was the neighborly thing go up and down all the streets around me saying hello how are you I'm the new neighbor and it has not really gone anywhere in terms of us meeting neighbors or people or anything but when I visited my hometown we made friends right away because I thought it was we for a long time like yes we're guess we're horrible people nobody likes us but no it Part of this area just isn't working for us and

Speaker 5 it will go somewhere else.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
And

Speaker 4 how to prepare for that? Because I'm not really sure what I'm getting into. And I don't want to make this mistake again because I thought this would be right for us and it clearly isn't.

Speaker 1 Sure. Well,

Speaker 1 you know, it is always hard when you're moving somewhere to know what the chemistry is, you know, within the neighborhood and the neighbors. So I feel like that is, that's a, that's a hard thing.

Speaker 1 It's kind of a gamble always when you're buying a home, you know, not knowing exactly what the community is like.

Speaker 1 But yeah, so, I mean, if that's not in the near future, then I probably would put some of this at that point towards the house. But I would also be thinking about these four kids and their future.

Speaker 1 So education-wise and all of that. So putting some money away for that as well.
So I would probably divvy this up a little bit in different ways. I would be using some of it for investing.

Speaker 1 I would be using some of it for kids' future and whatever that looks like for you guys. I don't know if that's a four-year university or whatever it is for them, putting some aside there.

Speaker 1 And then if you do have anything extra, yeah, you can throw it at the mortgage. But also, I mean, you guys are making $3,600 a month.
Is that right?

Speaker 4 $3,600 from my incomes and another $1,800 from the child business.

Speaker 1 Yes. Okay.
Yeah. So $4,400

Speaker 1 total. So, and I mean that's

Speaker 1 $5,400. Yes.
Yes. Yes.
Yes. Yes.
I'm sorry. Yep.
And yeah, I mean, overall, I would say you could even take some of this too, James,

Speaker 1 and up your lifestyle a little bit. I mean, if you guys, you know, need some room for the baby coming and having some money set aside to upgrade some baby stuff if you want that.
So

Speaker 1 a little bit of this as well, percentage-wise, and you and your wife can decide on what that is, you know, put within your monthly budget, just to give you guys a little bit of breathing room, maybe in the food category or whatever it is.

Speaker 1 Well, yeah, I mean,

Speaker 4 my budget had $50 for restaurants per month, and we basically never go out and buy all our food with 50% stickers.

Speaker 1 So yeah, so I would put some back to loosen that lifestyle. Yep, I would.

Speaker 1 Yeah, put some of that back in the budget to spend as well.

Speaker 6 Can we talk about the most concerning part of this call for me?

Speaker 4 Yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 6 Explain 40 degrees below zero to me.

Speaker 1 It doesn't always happen.

Speaker 6 I'm from Texas. That sounds like, like in Texas, they teach you that hell is not hot.
It's actually cold. And it sounds like...

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's true.

Speaker 6 Can you go outside or will you just die?

Speaker 4 You won't die if you're bundled up well enough. So I'm from central Canada where it gets that cold, but it's drier.
I'm used to drier. So you go all the time.

Speaker 4 If you're bundled up well enough, you're okay.

Speaker 1 It's a dry ground.

Speaker 1 It's okay. It's an Arizona insane.

Speaker 4 It's humid and it pierces right through you. I dare not even walk out the door.
And since our house

Speaker 4 still leaks air even with all the upgrades, we're all with jackets and blankets on the inside during the winter anyway. So

Speaker 1 make of that what you will.

Speaker 6 We We have this thing in Tennessee. I don't know if they have it there.
It's called Fire, and it just warms up everything.

Speaker 1 Y'all should get that.

Speaker 4 We don't have a fireplace in here either.

Speaker 1 Okay. Oh, man.
That's a bummer. Well, I hope that helps, James.
You're doing great. Yeah, and congrats on the baby on the way.
It's very exciting. Let's go to a social question, John.

Speaker 1 We got Becca from Facebook, and she says, What are some positive ways to redirect a spouse that continues to push off opportunities for easy earned income?

Speaker 6 Can I say that again?

Speaker 1 What are some positive, she's being very,

Speaker 1 Becca, what are some positive ways to redirect a spouse that continues to push off opportunities.

Speaker 1 The husband doesn't want to work. And she's like, oh my God, that's an easy way to make some money.
And he's like, I don't want to do that.

Speaker 6 Okay, number one, stop talking about your husband as though he's a doodle.

Speaker 6 That is the positive redirection is what you say to those designer dogs that God never intended that people in suburbs create.

Speaker 6 I know.

Speaker 1 Put a poodle with something.

Speaker 1 I know.

Speaker 6 Put Put a poodle with some kind of animal and create an animal. And God's just up there going, what are y'all doing? There's so many other problems to solve.

Speaker 6 But, so don't talk about your husband like a positive redirection. I think you sit down and you have a harder conversation about what is this money for? What are we trying to accomplish together?

Speaker 6 And how are we going to get there?

Speaker 6 It can be an easy, like, hey, our life's good. We're paying off our debt or we've got everything okay.

Speaker 6 And then somebody offers a thousand bucks to come do a job. And it's easy to go, no, I don't need that.
But your partner's sitting there going, that's $1,000. You're not doing a lot of work.

Speaker 6 That's a values conversation. That's not a money conversation.
If your husband's just sitting around not working and playing Fortnite, that's a different conversation, right?

Speaker 6 But let's stop with the little redirection. I don't know the, how do we gently redirect our husbands who either A won't provide or B

Speaker 1 or she's, I mean, or personality-wise. So let's just say every, you know, if they're trying to get out of debt, if they don't have an emergency fund and she's like, oh my gosh, we got to get on this.

Speaker 1 Have that conversation. Yeah, yeah, if that's it.
But then if you're on the other end of it and you don't have to, right? There's a job for a thousand bucks and you're like, eh, I'm

Speaker 6 the time here at home with you guys is more of a more yes.

Speaker 1 But what is hard is some spouses are more, you know, what is it, utilitarian-esque. Like it's just like this idea of like, oh my gosh, how could you not go? Opportunity.
Like they're so driven.

Speaker 6 They

Speaker 1 see, oh my, this time to what you're going to make, why would you not? And they think the other spouse is crazy. That's right.
That can happen too. So, well, thanks, Becca, for your question.

Speaker 1 This is the Ramsey show

Speaker 1 welcome back to the ramsey show i'm rachel cruz and with me today is dr john deloney

Speaker 1 and today's ramsey network app question is from mason

Speaker 1 And he asks, I would like

Speaker 1 a reasonable explanation on why you only recommend a 15-year mortgage. Why shouldn't I take a 30-year out and dump extra cash into an ETF earning 10 to 12%?

Speaker 1 And at the end of 30 years, I'd leverage my house and pay it off. Also have around $700,000 to spend from my investments.

Speaker 3 Mason, you're smarter than us.

Speaker 6 Mason, you're smarter than us. You got us.
You got us on this one.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I hadn't thought of that before. Yeah, where to go, man.
Wow. We'll just change our whole policy.
No, so Mason, the,

Speaker 1 the biggest goal when it comes to your money, one of the, well, not the biggest, one of them starting out is to become debt-free as soon as possible.

Speaker 1 And so for a lot of people, this journey of even paying their house off, which is obviously the largest asset most people have,

Speaker 1 it's going to take around nine years. And so there is a psychological change that occurs when you know, here is my payment.

Speaker 1 And even though my intentions are good, on a 30-year to either pay it like it's a 15, put what would have been on the mortgage, but now I can invest that money instead.

Speaker 1 You know, all of those are good intentions. And what we see over and over again is that human behavior can definitely trump what we had planned.
And things come up, life happens.

Speaker 1 And if you think over, you know, 10, 15, 20 years, 30 years, there's a lot of life to happen. So

Speaker 1 the probability that

Speaker 1 you would actually do this, right, and do it every single month consistently is probably pretty low considering the, we're talking about 30 years, 30 years.

Speaker 1 So, the idea of doing the 15, I mean, it's just it, there's mathematically, it's faster. It forces you into a faster payment plan.

Speaker 1 And then, when people are doing the baby steps and they get to this step, they're paying it off in nine years versus 15. So, you'll be paying it off earlier.

Speaker 1 Now, some people I know get a 30-year because the rate is better, you know, the payments is more reasonable for their budget, right?

Speaker 1 There's a lot of different reasons, but again, it's putting systems in place that the rhythm of your money and your life will get you to where you want to go as fast as possible.

Speaker 1 And that's the 15 over the 30.

Speaker 1 And what's wild about mortgages too is, you know, even an extra payment, one extra payment on a 30-year mortgage on a half a million dollar house at like a 4% interest rate, you pay it off four years faster.

Speaker 1 And you save, it was like, I think close to maybe $60,000 in interest.

Speaker 1 One extra payment a year. That's on a 30.
So if you imagine a 15 and doing that an extra year or doing four extra payments a year, right? Like you can just see the map.

Speaker 1 It's just, yeah, and when you're talking about a house and you're talking about a mortgage and interest and time, it's just big.

Speaker 1 So when you can like condense it and do it as fast as possible, you're going to be better off.

Speaker 6 Well, and I think it's important to call this out.

Speaker 6 And I've noticed this among like George and I, like, we just call them the finance bros, but.

Speaker 6 Like the guys with the spreadsheets that they roll out 30 years and they put all these assumptions in there. They've never read an Assembly and they have never

Speaker 6 experienced the pain of when the whole thing collapses, right?

Speaker 6 When it crashes and when the roller coaster goes way, way, way down or when you lose your job or your wife gets cancer or when your kid passes away or you have to move or you get laid off or whatever.

Speaker 6 And I think if

Speaker 6 your goal in life is to squeeze every last potential gap between an interest payment and a potential earned

Speaker 6 return on some sort of

Speaker 6 fund that you're trading, knock your lights out. Knock your lights out and we'll be here when you wreck.

Speaker 6 When you have taken call after call after call of somebody saying, hey, they're taking my mom's house away because she fill in the blank.

Speaker 6 Or my wife and I have to move to go take care of my dad because he fell and now we have dot, dot, dot, or my wife wants to stay home.

Speaker 1 We can't afford them. Or we can't.
We can't afford it.

Speaker 6 So

Speaker 6 if your goal is to always be looking for the spread and try to cover the spread,

Speaker 6 this isn't what we're trying to sell you. What we're we're trying to sell you is a total, total rejection of that way of thinking.

Speaker 6 We're trying to sell you something that the American household no longer has, and that is peace. That is the ability to sleep at night.

Speaker 6 I will gladly, gladly cash out the gap between a 30-year mortgage and a 15-year mortgage right now, which isn't a ton right this second.

Speaker 6 In fact, I think the 30-year mortgage rates may be less than the 15-year because they're trying to sell those because they can hold on to them longer.

Speaker 6 I would gladly sell that over this, this imaginary 30-year return I would have on this little bit of money if I constantly did this every month for 30 years and nothing bad ever happened to my family.

Speaker 6 That's right. Yeah.
Yeah. I would gladly trade that gap

Speaker 6 knowing that no one could ever take my house away, period, ever.

Speaker 6 And it's, I call it my sleep tax. It's my soul tax.
I just, I just walk around knowing you can't take my house. Yeah.
No matter what happens, my mom gets cancer. My wife passes away.

Speaker 6 They cannot take my house. And so if that's not what you're into,

Speaker 6 there's no math problem problem that we're going to sit down and map it out for you. Right.
Right.

Speaker 1 Because that's, and that's the thing, too, about paying your mortgage off early, because we hear kind of similar argument. Oh my gosh, why would I pay it off early?

Speaker 1 Why would I not just invest that money? Or if I have this money, it's making more, you know, in the market versus my 2% interest rate that I got 10 years ago.

Speaker 1 You know, why would I ever unplug something that's making that much to throw at debt that's only like a 2% to 3% interest rate? And it's that exact, it's the exact same thing because peace and

Speaker 1 calmness doesn't show up on a spreadsheet. It just doesn't.

Speaker 1 And we had our money in marriage weekend last weekend here with about 600 couples or so. And there were a lot on baby step seven, which means they've paid off their house.

Speaker 1 There was a good amount of them. I was kind of surprised when I was asking them what baby step everyone was on.
There was a good amount of baby step seven. And I was like, oh, wow.

Speaker 1 And I said, okay, so for those of you that paid off your house, keep your hand up if you regretted it.

Speaker 6 Zero? Zero hands were still up.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Because it's like, no, you, when you really don't have a mortgage payment, you're not like, dad gummet. And if you are still, you can always borrow back on your equity and go and invest it.
Right.

Speaker 1 I mean, like you can always get back into debt.

Speaker 1 And because there's something to be said about us as people, our human soul at a very, very deep level rests in a place that does not show up on an Excel sheet. It just doesn't.
And so

Speaker 1 we talk more about the person than we do the math on the show because we really believe in the people. We believe in you.
If you're listening or watching, you are the solution to your problems.

Speaker 1 You are the one that's going to make choices in your life, like empowering who you are as a whole person, not the little financial geek, you know, over here. You as a whole person, as a

Speaker 1 son, as a daughter, as a husband, as a wife, as a mom, as a dad, as a friend, like all these elements of you, money is just a part of it.

Speaker 1 But on this show, it's the thing that ends up being magnified into a lot of our dysfunction is what we end up seeing. And so you you can't forget you are a person.
You are a whole person.

Speaker 1 And that piece is part of it. It's not always the math.

Speaker 6 And to you leverage people, y'all need to go read Wendell Berry. Y'all need to go read Nassim Taleb, people who love risk, because I love risk, but the goal of risk, I actually do.

Speaker 6 I'm kind of a conservative risky, but I love it.

Speaker 6 The thing that the modern kids that are all into like, risk and leverage, I'm going to go, is you can't leverage something that if the risk doesn't pay out, you lose it all.

Speaker 6 right and there's no better way to risk when you have a house when you are your own bank and when your kids School is taken care of

Speaker 6 Bro, then go to Vegas then you can play right then you can start doing these things but this leverage There's a fulcrum to leverage and if your fulcrum is your home

Speaker 6 Dude, they're gonna come take your house the market doesn't ride bulls forever.

Speaker 6 They will come take your home and that just tells me you watch a lot of Instagram and a lot of TikTok and you know how to make, use ChatGPT to make some cool Excel algorithms.

Speaker 6 You don't understand what it's like to sleep in a house that you don't owe money on.

Speaker 1 Yep, that's right.

Speaker 6 This is what it is. I mean, they can't take your house away.
I'm all about leverage. I'm all about risk.
I love it. But I don't risk my wife's house.
I just don't. Yeah.

Speaker 6 And when you get that through your mind, then you can play these. Well, then I'm going to leverage my house and pay it off, but have around.

Speaker 6 Play that game after

Speaker 6 you've covered the ground floor.

Speaker 1 And I think that's part of the misnomer, too, of

Speaker 1 that this 700 grand, you know, that he has, you know, typed out. You know, there's something about also just chasing money to a degree that there is a level of emptiness out there, y'all.

Speaker 1 Money is not a God. It is not an idol.
It will not fulfill you. Like it's not.
But it also will destroy you if you don't have peace around it.

Speaker 1 So getting yourself in a healthy position mathematically is very smart. It's what we want you to do.

Speaker 1 But then on top of that, knowing that it has a placement in your life that you're not constantly chasing because the finish line, the finish line, Mason, is always going to move.

Speaker 1 It's always going to move. So, contentment is key in this as well.
Thanks to everyone, all the guys in the booth, and Taylor. Thank you, Taylor and John, for

Speaker 1 a great segment. Thanks, America, for listening.
This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships.

Speaker 1 I am Rachel Cruz, hosting this hour with my good friend and best-selling author, Dr. John Deloney.

Speaker 1 So give us a call at 888-825-5225, and we'll be answering your questions about money, relationships, career, life. So give us a call.
Up first, starting off the hour is all the way in Hawaii.

Speaker 1 We have John.

Speaker 1 Oh, John, I hit the wrong button. So sorry.
Hey, John, welcome to the show.

Speaker 1 Aloha. Aloha.
Welcome, welcome. How can we help?

Speaker 4 Hi, thanks.

Speaker 9 So thank you for taking my call first off.

Speaker 9 But I'm getting an insurance payout of about around $70,000 plus or minus a few thousand.

Speaker 9 And

Speaker 9 I've never really kind of gotten a lump sum like this. I am a little in debt.

Speaker 9 Before any of my injuries happened, I was in no debt and had plenty of savings, which is why I was able to pretty much survive. And I need some advice.

Speaker 9 I'm either looking at A, investing it into myself, of my career, of getting the rest of my pilots licensing, and

Speaker 9 opening the opportunities for

Speaker 9 that to come about. And the second thing I'm thinking about is maybe buying a house or a property.
But the fact of what I'm seeing in the market and 8% interest rates pretty much scare me.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 What happened, John?

Speaker 1 What happened that you got this payment?

Speaker 1 A payout, I should say.

Speaker 9 I was injured

Speaker 9 and I'm getting pretty much an insurance payout due to this injury. I had to go through a little bit of

Speaker 9 trying to get like super, you know, it's super.

Speaker 1 Are you okay?

Speaker 9 how are you doing now oh yeah i'm fine oh i'm fine now yeah i had to go through a couple surgeries and okay i had to rehabilitate myself and everything and i'm so sorry mostly back i'm mostly back to a hundred percent yeah it was it was pretty it was pretty pretty bad so you've you've got yeah that's you've got some huge plans for the seventy thousand dollars And 70 grand is a lot.

Speaker 6 But you mentioned like education, buying a house, getting a pony, buying a dragon. Like, you've got a lot of plans for this money.

Speaker 6 My first question to you is almost all insurance payments aren't, they're not a lottery winning. They are to make you whole.
Are you going to need a knee replacement down the way?

Speaker 6 Are you going to continue to need extra medical treatment or physical therapy or counseling down the way that this you need to put some of this money aside for?

Speaker 9 I do not believe so.

Speaker 9 There should be no other treatments. It's more about just keeping myself healthy

Speaker 9 and taking care of myself, which is I am very goal-oriented on doing

Speaker 1 for the future. So what kind of debt do you have currently?

Speaker 9 It's maybe about

Speaker 9 30,000 plus or minus a few grand. And before any of this happened, I was in zero debt.

Speaker 1 Okay. And

Speaker 1 what does that debt consist of?

Speaker 9 Okay, I know I know it all. I'm paying it down very quickly now that I'm back at, I'm working right now.
So it being

Speaker 1 pretty quick.

Speaker 1 Is that $30,000? Is it all medical or is there credit card debt? What kind of debt is it?

Speaker 9 Right. So

Speaker 9 about $10,000 of it is about a personal loan, which is about 5%

Speaker 9 interest.

Speaker 1 Okay. Why did you take that out?

Speaker 9 That was

Speaker 9 actually kind of, it was

Speaker 9 a little bit to put into my savings and a little bit to pay off just to reconsolidate

Speaker 1 credit card okay okay and was the credit card debt

Speaker 1 due to the injury because you couldn't work and you guys were using it to to get by or what was the credit card debt no no i i got the personal loan well before um the injury i sustained this injury it was okay before that okay okay yeah

Speaker 1 it's almost getting paid off it's more gotcha okay so 10 grand personal loan what's the other 20

Speaker 9 the other 20 is credit card nets ranging between three different cards okay um

Speaker 9 not maxed out yeah anymore

Speaker 1 anywhere between 15 and that my highest one is 77.9 okay so what i would advise you john to do is yes i would pay off this this 30 grand like today i would get i would be completely debt-free and i would take the rest of the 40 and i would take some of it and create an emergency fund.

Speaker 1 I would probably do six months of expenses just because of what you walked through. Do you have money saved?

Speaker 9 Yeah, I already have that already. That was the first thing I did when I got back to work.

Speaker 1 Okay, how much is in there?

Speaker 9 About 10.

Speaker 1 Okay. So yeah, if you need to bump it up any, you can just to cover that full six months.
So my word of caution.

Speaker 1 for you, John, is whenever we hear someone like gets a lump sum, and it could be from an inheritance, it could be an insurance payout, just like what you're explaining to us.

Speaker 1 You know, some people, it's like this like massive, like, you know, tax refund, too, like, whatever it is, and it's a lump sum.

Speaker 1 I would use it, obviously, to pay off this debt. But I say that with a word of caution because sometimes when you go in and just, you kind of get this.

Speaker 1 I mean, I don't want to say free money because you went through hell and all this stuff. Like, I'm not saying it's free, but essentially, you're being handed $70,000.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 nothing about John changes money-wise with your behavior, with your habits.

Speaker 1 So people that work their way out of debt, like if you didn't get the 70 and you're working your way out of that 30,000, something changes in that process, like the feeling of that sacrifice, understanding like you're cutting expenses.

Speaker 1 It's hard. It's not always fun, but man, you're doing something.
You're paying a price to win. And when there's a lump sum like this,

Speaker 1 you don't always feel. that emotion.
And that feeling, I do think is important,

Speaker 1 that experience, because it changes you. And so while, again, I would pay this off today, I would take this money and pay off that 30 grand.
I just want you, John, to promise yourself.

Speaker 1 Are you married?

Speaker 9 I am divorced.

Speaker 1 You are divorced. Okay, no, that's fine.
So I would promise yourself. Absolutely.

Speaker 1 Promise yourself that you're not going back into debt. I would be cutting up the credit cards, no more loans.
Like we're not, we're not doing this again.

Speaker 1 And if you can draw that hard line in the sand, I want you to do that as you're paying this debt off with this lump sum that you're getting.

Speaker 1 Um, but do you hear that caution that the behavior of you is what's going to allow you to win down the road? And

Speaker 1 your behavior isn't necessarily going to change through an experience of sacrifice. Does that make sense?

Speaker 9 Yeah, absolutely. Without any sacrifice, you don't really gain anything.

Speaker 1 Um,

Speaker 9 the before I was even all that most of this credit card debt that I'm in right now is actually from my injuries from pretty much trying to, it took me over two years to get everything like kind of back into normal.

Speaker 9 And that's how much savings I had up. I had no credit card debt.
I had good savings. I had good crypto, you know, and I didn't know if like, and I'm drilling that down now.

Speaker 1 No, that's great. Sorry, John.
We got to go to a hard break.

Speaker 1 So, yeah. So, again, that 40 that's left.

Speaker 6 And by the way, check your local taxes because you may have to pay state and federal taxes on the the lump payout. It may be that that's all you get out of this thing.

Speaker 1 So, yeah, look into that.

Speaker 1 And then I would probably, yeah, if you want to go back and get your pilot's license and that's something like career-wise that you're looking at, I would definitely get any left.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I think that's great. Thanks, John, for the call.
Glad you're okay. This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. We are taking your calls at 888-825-5225.

Speaker 1 And next up, we have Mary in Chicago, Illinois. Hey, Mary, welcome to the show.

Speaker 3 Hi, how are you?

Speaker 1 Doing well. How can we help?

Speaker 3 So my question regarding our finances, my husband and I, he just got a new job.

Speaker 3 Be making like $140,000 a year

Speaker 3 and went up from... about 50.

Speaker 1 Oh, wow.

Speaker 1 Big jump. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Yeah, big jump, finally.

Speaker 1 What's he doing? What happened?

Speaker 3 Well, he was kind of on his own in construction. And just it was very, it was

Speaker 3 all over the place. Some days working, some days not, and it just wasn't consistent enough.
So he got a

Speaker 3 better job, you know, 40 hours a week constantly. And yeah.

Speaker 1 Wow, good for him.

Speaker 4 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 Much better opportunity for him.

Speaker 1 Good.

Speaker 3 So my question, like, even now with this one, he has no kind of retirement into it, so it's all on us.

Speaker 3 We have very little because of not making any money in the past.

Speaker 3 We have about

Speaker 3 18, no, 17,000, 18,000, I would say, in debt, credit card.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 3 It is at 0%.

Speaker 3 I have the money stashed away, and I know you guys say to pay it off, but it just always scared me because until now we didn't have it, and I just always stashed money kind of.

Speaker 3 So I know I could pay that.

Speaker 3 I have about 35 in cash.

Speaker 3 So I could pay that off

Speaker 3 and kind of start from there, I guess.

Speaker 1 But like I said, it's 0%

Speaker 3 and I know I should pay it. Like I said, it just scares me.

Speaker 3 So my question really is, like, how do we invest? kind of for our future retirement

Speaker 3 because he doesn't get any of that and nor do I.

Speaker 7 Yep.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 What does he say about all of this when it comes to paying off debt? Because you keep saying, I, you know, I have stashed away $35,000 and all that. Does he, yeah, does he want to pay it off?

Speaker 1 What would he say about that?

Speaker 3 Yeah, he wants to pay it off, too. He doesn't really know how much I have stashed.
Because I just,

Speaker 3 yeah, stash it little by little, kind of.

Speaker 1 Hey, Mary, Mary, are you safe at home?

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Are you sure? Yeah.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Very. Yeah.

Speaker 6 What is it about your home that you've been hiding money from?

Speaker 1 It's just because he wasn't making a lot. Is that it? And you just thought, oh, my gosh, we're going to be okay.
Exactly. Yes.

Speaker 3 Yes. It just gears.
Yeah. So I'm afraid.
Yeah.

Speaker 6 But if he knew how much you would have, he would take it and spend it?

Speaker 3 No. I mean, not like foolishly spend, but he would, like, say, let's get out of that, like, pay it all off and start.
Like, whereas I'm. I'm still afraid to, I guess, get rid of it.

Speaker 3 Like, you know, it's still kind of like a little cushion for me.

Speaker 1 So, yeah.

Speaker 6 Rachel's going to walk you through the money part, but I just feel compelled to say this.

Speaker 6 There is tension in your home.

Speaker 6 There's two people keeping secrets from each other. And if you're that scared of what's coming next for your family, you need to,

Speaker 6 and you're safe, you need to have the courage to sit down with your husband and let him know. I've been hiding money because I haven't been, because I'm not sick.
I don't feel safe.

Speaker 7 Yeah.

Speaker 6 Because there's a tension there, and he doesn't know what it is, and he blames himself for it, and he's trying to solve it. And that's not fair.

Speaker 6 If you have to hide money from him because he's going to go blow it and put you all at financial risk, or he's struggling with alcohol or gambling, that's a totally different story.

Speaker 6 But if you just have said, well, he's going to want to pay our debts off, and I don't agree with that, so I'm going to hide money from him.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean, I shouldn't have said hit, but like, he doesn't really watch the finances like I do, and he just doesn't know where I'm at with how much.

Speaker 3 He doesn't realize probably that I have this much saved on the side.

Speaker 1 Like, you know, yeah.

Speaker 1 And your motivation for it, Mary, was that for some reason, if he doesn't get a job, because he was on his own for so long with construction, that we'll at least have enough to pay for food next month because I'm just stashing, stashing, stashing.

Speaker 1 So it's like you're always running from behind on the defense versus being offensive.

Speaker 3 I just tied things at home and I just stash that away.

Speaker 1 And I just,

Speaker 1 yeah. Okay.
So, yeah, I mean, I think John makes a great point. The first thing I would do tonight, everything needs to be laid out.
Everything of like, here's how much we have saved.

Speaker 1 Here's all of our debt. Here's the income.
Here's what we spend on food. Like here is everything.

Speaker 6 And here's how scared I feel.

Speaker 1 And yeah, I have this saved over here. And it's probably more than you realize.

Speaker 1 And I'm doing that for a level of safety because I was so scared these past year, these past couple of years when you weren't making, you know, the money coming in. And I wanted, I needed safety.

Speaker 1 And now together we can start making these decisions. So

Speaker 1 yeah, I would start there, Mary, for sure, because I think that's going to be great for your marriage.

Speaker 1 Because as you guys start this process, and as he's starting a new job, there may be new stress there, you know, that he can come home and talk to you about.

Speaker 1 There could just be new lines of communication open that may not have been there before. So, so, yeah, so I would pay it off today.

Speaker 1 Like, yeah, I would take that 35, pay off the credit card debt, cut up the credit cards, be done with all of that. And then

Speaker 1 I would look to see how much it costs to run your home. Is it just you and your husband? You guys have kids?

Speaker 3 Two, yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay. How old are they?

Speaker 3 Eight and ten.

Speaker 1 Eight and ten. Okay.
So

Speaker 1 yeah, I would, I would probably lean on the six-month emergency fund side, considering that you're more of a conservative saver when it comes to money and that safety is very important to you.

Speaker 1 And I get that. You know, we always laugh that, you know, and I'm kind of like this too.
I'm like, I want my emergency fund to have an emergency fund.

Speaker 1 Like it just feels good to like know every, you know, if everything hits the fan,

Speaker 1 we can, we can can pay the mortgage and eat and eat. Right.
So like, I get that totally. So I feel.

Speaker 1 So I would, I would do, I would run your budget and just say, okay, this is how much it costs to run our life and then multiply it by six.

Speaker 1 And that number, I would be curious for you if that feels good. Like, okay, this, this feels right.

Speaker 1 And I, and feels right from a logical standpoint that I know if something were to happen for six months, we could be okay. Like, that's a long time.
Right. So, um, so that would be my next step.

Speaker 1 And then beyond that, when it comes to retirement,

Speaker 1 yeah, there's a couple of places. Does his

Speaker 1 I know his employer doesn't match. Do they have a 401k program at all?

Speaker 3 No, nothing. Like he gets no benefit.
Yeah, no benefits.

Speaker 1 No benefits within that. Okay.

Speaker 1 How big is the company that he's working for?

Speaker 3 You know, like today, actually, like today's his first week.

Speaker 1 Oh, okay.

Speaker 1 I didn't know if it was a large type firm or if it's just, you you know,

Speaker 1 I believe it.

Speaker 3 I mean, yeah, I believe it is.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 3 So I would say, I mean, he's working with a group of like 20, but there's different

Speaker 3 places around the city type of, you know, there's a couple different,

Speaker 3 what do you call them?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm just surprised if a large company firm doesn't offer that point.

Speaker 3 That's what I said, yeah, too.

Speaker 3 Like, I think they do some that way, and then they do some where they give you more of a salary, and it's not on them to pay out a pension, to pay out insurance, like all that.

Speaker 1 Okay. You know, I think they're saving money, actually.
Gotcha. Yeah.
No, that's great.

Speaker 3 That's what I think.

Speaker 8 I don't know for sure.

Speaker 1 Okay. So,

Speaker 1 yeah. So if that's the package that, yeah, he signs onboarding and everything.

Speaker 1 Right. Yeah.
I would open up next would be a Roth IRA. And for this calendar year, you guys may not make the mark for it.
But as of now, you can each put in $7,000.

Speaker 1 You can actually open up a spousal Roth IRA, Mary.

Speaker 1 And then with his earned income, he can

Speaker 1 be able to qualify. $150,000, he may, I think that the,

Speaker 1 if you're, I guess, a single filer, it's $141.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I would double-check, but I think you both are still eligible to open up a Roth IRA. If not, you could do a backdoor Roth.

Speaker 1 But I would also sit down with the Smart Vestor Pro when you guys are in. After all this is done, after the debt's paid off, you have that emergency fund you feel good about.

Speaker 1 And then you'll be investing 15% of your income after that.

Speaker 1 And I would sit down with an investment professional. And there's people in your area that we recommend.
And they're called Smart Investor Pros.

Speaker 1 So Taylor can pick up when we get off this call and she can help kind of direct you and sit down with them and really look at the best plan moving forward.

Speaker 1 Because also for your kids, you have young kids. And, you know, what does it look like for them and college and all of it? Because yeah, 150 is an incredible salary.

Speaker 1 So you guys can, especially if you're used to living on 50, you'll have a lot of margin to be able to do some really great things and just making sure that's that's all directed in the right way.

Speaker 1 So congrats, Mary, on the new job. I know that probably makes you feel great too, that there's some more money coming in.
So excited for you guys. Thanks for the call.
This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Our Ramsey Show question of the day is sponsored by Why ReFi.

Speaker 1 It's hard to make progress when you're trapped under an avalanche of defaulted private student loans, but YReFi helps dig you out and get the momentum with custom refinancing based on your ability to pay and a lump sum payoff option you could qualify for after 24 months.

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Speaker 6 All right, today's question comes from Bethany in Vermont. Bethany writes, I'm really struggling.
I work in the financial industry and am extremely embarrassed about our financial situation.

Speaker 6 I started using every dollar and have been diligent for 10 months. Yes, I'm using I as my husband is not in agreement and it's very frustrating.

Speaker 6 He's in poor health and believes he will not live until retirement and does not need to worry about saving money for it. Ah man.

Speaker 6 We're 52 now. We combine our money, but he hates that I am quote-unquote taking all his money.

Speaker 6 I pay all the bills and keep the budget, which I show him every month, but he would rather buy a new $600 pair of boots than save money.

Speaker 6 I met my wits and we tried counseling last year and didn't go well.

Speaker 6 How do I know when to call it? Quit.

Speaker 6 Well, geese, what do you think, Ricky?

Speaker 1 Yeah, this is a hard one.

Speaker 1 Yeah, Bethany, I mean, the first part of your, I'll let John answer the latter part of this question, but the whole idea that you're embarrassed because you work in the financial industry,

Speaker 1 that needs to just leave. I mean, there's a lot of bankers that are broke that don't know how to handle money.

Speaker 6 There's a lot of divorce marriage therapists. There's a lot of

Speaker 6 life is what it is.

Speaker 1 Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, your occupation, you know, I mean, letting that dictate who you are.
I would not let that be a shame cycle that

Speaker 1 I feel like you're in.

Speaker 1 But yeah, you do have some major marriage issues. And the thing that is always evident in these types of questions is that money just ends up being the one pipe that you're seeing the problems in.

Speaker 1 And it's coming from a source. And And the source is, is that your husband

Speaker 1 is an immature guy. I'm like, he, he's just, he, he does not look at life as taking care of his household.

Speaker 1 He doesn't look at life of worth living because he doesn't even think he's going to reach retirement, which is at that point in like another six years.

Speaker 1 So yeah, so this is someone that that

Speaker 1 from a lot of different levels isn't okay. And you happen to be married to them.
So when it gets to this point, that's, that's what makes it difficult

Speaker 1 within the marriage.

Speaker 6 Yeah. And I think, Rachel, you nailed it.
Dave has been saying this forever that money is just a, it's a, it's an alarm for what's going on in your house. And what you have here is a husband who is,

Speaker 6 I've heard the phrase long tail suicide, which is, I'm just going to drink or Netflix or lonely or just do nothing myself to death, right?

Speaker 6 And I'm not going to die by suicide today, but it's just going to be this long fade-out.

Speaker 6 And I'm going to take every person who loves me with me because they're going to watch it in slow motion.

Speaker 6 And I don't care enough, like you said, I don't care enough about the spirit inside my own skin.

Speaker 6 I don't care enough about the woman who said I do and married me and is watching this thing happen real time. I just don't care.
Stop messing with my money and giving me rules.

Speaker 6 And I'm going to go buy a new pair of boots that you can bury me in, right?

Speaker 6 I don't,

Speaker 6 I can't answer the question, how do I know when to call it quits?

Speaker 6 I just I can't answer that with this little information.

Speaker 6 What I can say is it sounds like there needs to begin, and I say this reluctantly, you need to begin to separate your money

Speaker 6 because this is good. It looks like I always look for trend lines.
And this is one of those that feels like it's escalating. And I've been working hard for 10 months.
He's in poor health.

Speaker 6 Now he thinks he's going to die soon. So now he wants to buy, like it's starting to just trend line one way in a negative direction.

Speaker 1 And you don't want to protect yourself. Yeah.
And at this point, your future is

Speaker 1 up in the air because of his choices of spending. Right.

Speaker 6 And so when it comes to call it quits about sharing your money, I think y'all are there. Maybe you can share some household bills, but you need to make sure your four walls are covered, Bethany.
Yeah.

Speaker 6 Because you have somebody who is actively trying to wreck the car.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 6 And

Speaker 6 at some point, maybe he goes and talks to somebody, but that's down the road here.

Speaker 6 And all I can say is

Speaker 6 it breaks my heart for you. But I'm never going to tell somebody

Speaker 6 unless it's a very specific situation. You need to get out of this right now.
So I can't tell you to call it court.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Oh, I'm sorry. Tough, tough, tough, tough tough.
Tiffany, so sorry.

Speaker 1 I hope that's helpful.

Speaker 1 All right, let's go to the phones. And we have Kayla in Fort Worth, Texas.
Hey, Kayla, welcome to the show.

Speaker 3 Hi.

Speaker 3 can you hear me?

Speaker 1 Yes, we can. Yeah.
How can we help?

Speaker 3 So my husband and I have had some bad luck with our cars recently. We're following the big steps, but we are so, so frustrated.

Speaker 3 And I just need some encouragement to not get a loan for a new car and also advice for what to actually do since we've only recently finished our emergency fund.

Speaker 1 Okay, yeah. So you guys have your $1,000?

Speaker 3 No, we have a fully funded.

Speaker 1 Oh, the fully funded. Oh, okay.
Okay. So what's the situation with the car or both of of them? What's going on?

Speaker 3 Yeah. So going back to July, at that point, we're working on our emergency fund.
And then after that, we plan to save up to replace my husband's car.

Speaker 3 But that's when my car, which is five years and 200,000 miles newer than his car, the engine just went out.

Speaker 3 So we took it to the dealership and they are still, you know, four months later, waiting for a backordered part. They have no idea when you're going to have it.

Speaker 3 And they want to meet with us tomorrow to go over some options.

Speaker 3 and we're expecting them to try and get out of fixing our car um and then last month at an oil change my husband's car they found maintenance needed that's work that's like more than the car is worth which just like kind of broke me a little um

Speaker 1 so i i

Speaker 6 before you go make up a story about what's going to happen tomorrow wait till tomorrow okay

Speaker 6 Okay. And let's see what they're going to do.
Because if this part is under warranty and they can't do it, they need to make you whole and then make you right.

Speaker 3 It's not under warranty.

Speaker 6 Okay. So y'all are trying to buy a part and they they don't have it for you

Speaker 1 um so

Speaker 3 they we had they were going to fix our car fix the engine um but they're waiting for a part to come in from like their

Speaker 3 from their headquarter dealership i guess okay um

Speaker 3 and that they've been waiting for four months they have no idea when they're gonna have anything how come you haven't taken the car out and taken it to another shop

Speaker 6 it's so we're with the actual like dealership that we yeah it doesn't matter if if it's not under warranty then they're just like a regular old mechanic.

Speaker 1 Yeah, mechanic.

Speaker 6 They're just trying to make extra money on you.

Speaker 1 And they're actually probably the more expensive route, Kayla, to be honest.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I would go,

Speaker 1 is the car drivable or has it been sitting there for four months?

Speaker 3 It's been sitting there for four months. They've already got the engine

Speaker 3 taken apart.

Speaker 6 Yeah, so if they can't fix your car, then they have to put it back together in the original shape it was in.

Speaker 6 And here's the deal: you have to go in tomorrow without

Speaker 6 the possibility you're going to take out a loan. Like there's no kind of, there's no encouragement or no like pat on the back.
What we're like, Rachel, man, what you're going through is

Speaker 6 mind-numbingly frustrating. And I hate how badly you've been treated.

Speaker 6 Had you called three months and two weeks ago, I would have told you to march in there, right?

Speaker 6 But four months, they're just dragging you around, dragging you around, and they're going to try to slough a new car off on you and say, hey, we're going to give you $1,500 off just to make this thing right.

Speaker 1 Have they given you any price on what the part, how much this is all going to cost? Because I would get that information tomorrow. And then I would get a second opinion.

Speaker 1 I mean, even if you have to tow the thing to another mechanic

Speaker 1 just to be like, hey,

Speaker 1 I need you to look at this and how much would this part cost you? And go get options because that's the frustrating thing about the car industry is it's like, oh my God, one person here.

Speaker 1 It's one price, one over here. I mean, it's just, it's wild.

Speaker 6 So the maintenance on that, on your husband's car, I would say thank you very much and take it to a completely different person and get a second opinion.

Speaker 1 Second and third opinion, always, when it comes to this.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 how much are your cars worth if you were to sell them?

Speaker 3 My car

Speaker 3 when it's whole would be about $7,000 and his about $2,500.

Speaker 1 Okay. And how much do you guys have in your emergency fund?

Speaker 3 We have $24,000 right now. Okay.

Speaker 1 Well, Kayla. That's why you got your emergency funds.

Speaker 1 I would be a borrow car. Yep.
No, do not get a loan.

Speaker 1 I would, would, yeah. I mean, this is why you have an emergency fund so you don't have to go into debt.

Speaker 6 So I would raise hell in that auto dealership. They have treated you very, very poorly.

Speaker 1 For sure, but I would be using some of this money either to replace a car

Speaker 1 or to use this cash to be able to get it fixed. ASAP.

Speaker 6 Do not buy a car from them. They are not people of integrity.

Speaker 1 Thanks for the call, Kayla. This is The Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Welcome to The Ramsey Show. I'm Rachel Cruz, hosting this hour with Dr.
John Deloney and taking your calls. So up next, we have Heather in Orlando.
Hey, Heather, welcome to the show.

Speaker 3 Hi, thank you. It's an honor to be on.

Speaker 1 Absolutely. We're glad you called.
How can we help?

Speaker 8 Well, I had written in because we have two adult children that have moved back home and we are charging them rent.

Speaker 8 However, I do feel guilty about it at times and then I feel like we're being taken advantage other times. So I just wanted to hear what your take would be on it.

Speaker 6 How's that to high five you? So tell me about your sons.

Speaker 8 So our second, we have four children. Our second son,

Speaker 8 he lost his job a couple, about a year and a half ago. How old is he? And he was 29.
He's now 30.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 8 And

Speaker 8 he was renting a place with our youngest son. And

Speaker 8 he was behind on his rent. And

Speaker 8 we paid to have his rent caught up so our other son wouldn't get penalized for it. Then we allowed him to move in.
He was without a job for six months.

Speaker 8 He did get a job, and once he started, we were having him pay $200 back for the loan and $200 back for rent. So that has been going on since last August.
And then our younger son,

Speaker 8 he was supposed to get married, and that didn't happen, and his housing fell through.

Speaker 8 So he, at the last minute, asked if he could move with in with us at the end of August so he's been here for two months and we just started charging him rent so okay

Speaker 8 they make a lot of money

Speaker 8 you do or they do

Speaker 4 they do

Speaker 8 I mean we we're fine my husband and I are fine but they do make a lot of money and at times I feel like we're being taken for granted you are you are okay

Speaker 6 I'm working on a huge project, and one of the chapters of the project right now is tentatively titled

Speaker 6 Millions of Unmarriable Men.

Speaker 6 And these are men that

Speaker 6 always go through life with a safety net

Speaker 6 that is probably mom's house.

Speaker 6 Yeah. And what it's robbing them of is, I mean, you're talking about a 30-year-old who makes great money.

Speaker 6 Essentially what's happening here is, and by the way, the thought, I have a 14-year-old, the thought of him moving away in four years, I can get choked up without even, without even blinking twice.

Speaker 1 Okay. Right, right.

Speaker 6 So I get it. And if you throw in any sort of divorce or childhood issues, there's always this sense parents feel of, I want to catch up, I want to make this thing right.

Speaker 6 I don't want to contribute anything, any more hurt or anything like that. But here's what's happening.

Speaker 6 Millions and millions of parents are walking into the gym and watching their kids struggling and they run over and take the weight weight of off the bar.

Speaker 6 And then their kids are 30 years old and they get laid off and the kid looks around and just goes, mommy.

Speaker 6 And you, and here's the thing, it feels good, doesn't it?

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yes, it feels so good.

Speaker 3 Sometimes, sometimes I get angry about it.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 6 It's good.

Speaker 6 I'm glad you feel both. And both of those are normal reactions.

Speaker 6 I want my son and my daughter to always know, no matter matter what,

Speaker 6 no matter what, they will always know where the key is to come into my house. They're always welcome home.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 6 And I want them to be strong enough to really never have to.

Speaker 1 Right?

Speaker 8 Yeah.

Speaker 8 And see, my husband and I, we got married young, 19 and 21, and we had four kids, you know, right within seven years.

Speaker 8 And we never, we worked our butts off to, you know, just live paycheck to paycheck. And so we never had a safety net, either one of us.

Speaker 8 And so we always wanted to make sure that our kids didn't feel that and that we were that. So our oldest son is married, has a three-year-old and another on the way.

Speaker 8 He's never come back home since he's been married, but our other three kids have come back, all of them, two of them have come back twice. And then our youngest just came back.

Speaker 6 But can I tell you why they come back?

Speaker 8 Because they can. Yep.

Speaker 1 Because they can.

Speaker 6 And so I do think there's there's a moment in time when the greatest gift you could give them is their independence.

Speaker 6 And I think there's something fair to say, hey,

Speaker 6 me and this old man over here, your husband, we got married real young. We had all four kids, and we want to have our adventures.
Y'all are moving out.

Speaker 6 And you got three months, you got six months, you got 90 days, you got 60 days.

Speaker 6 What I've been telling parents is this, tell them they got 60 days or let's say 30 days, maybe 60 days at the most, and say, I'll give you another 30 days if y'all watch all nine FPU lessons

Speaker 6 back to back to back. You watch all these lessons, I'll give you another month.
You can stay to launch.

Speaker 1 But just as you know, and what's so hard about this, Heather, is

Speaker 1 what you intended as a mom to help and to be a gift and to be a blessing when that is not done with boundaries, with clear communication, with an end date.

Speaker 1 Like the son that, you know, was going to get married ended up up falling, it didn't happen. And so his housing, you know, who knows what that story is.

Speaker 1 And I'm like, yeah, if he's like, oh my gosh, I was supposed to move in here and now I can't, you know, get rent somewhere.

Speaker 1 Can I, can I stay with you guys for a month while I find another place, right? Like, I mean, there's a, there's a, there's, there's, there's common sense in this, right?

Speaker 1 So it's not that you're not being, you know, um, half-hearted about it, but also what that ends up being, that gift and that great heart that you have, Heather, it ends up hindering your kids.

Speaker 1 And it's, and it's the enabling side that is so difficult. I was reading a, parenting book recently and they were talking about how my generation,

Speaker 1 the boomer parents ended up kind of becoming helicopter parents to a degree toward the end of like my high school when phones started to be a thing.

Speaker 1 And they said, you know, hover, hover, hover, hover, hover. And nowadays,

Speaker 1 the style of parenting is not helicopter parents, but they're snowplow parents where they go through and they just. clear the way where there's no bumps, no moguls.

Speaker 1 They don't have to get nervous that, oh my God, I'm about to fall. Nothing.
It is a clear path.

Speaker 1 And what that and and what, and again, if we knew that that was the healthiest thing for people and they would end up on the other side being a healthier person, then that's great. But it doesn't.

Speaker 1 It doesn't, it doesn't help. All the research shows it's the opposite.
It's exactly what you're saying about the weights. It's a great picture because they end up being weak.
Like there's nothing.

Speaker 1 They're just not strong. There's no strength.
That's right. And I don't know if this helps at all, Heather, but we had Taylor, our beautiful Taylor in the booth.
She's our phone screener.

Speaker 1 She's wonderful. And when you said, yeah, about unmarriable men, she's nodding her head because a lot of men in their 20s and 30s are back home.
And

Speaker 1 great girls are like, oh, oh, but I got a failure to lunch. Matthew McConaughey, I got to go home to your parents.

Speaker 6 And here's the thing, parents, for those of us,

Speaker 6 listen, I remember pacing the house with my wife asleep, not knowing how we were going to do it. Like those, those, that I can get real visceral real quick.
My son and my daughter.

Speaker 6 Hopefully, thank God, will never experience that. That doesn't mean that they have won.
That means that I'm going to have to do different things to inject challenges into their lives.

Speaker 6 Meaning, I could buy you a car. I'm not going to.
I could pay for everything. I'm not going to.
I've got to inject struggle because at the end of the day, I don't want them waking up and being 30.

Speaker 6 And because of me, they don't have strength and they don't have grit.

Speaker 6 That doesn't mean we're going to intentionally make them suffer, but that means I've got to be intentional about making sure they've got strength, that they develop different places that I developed.

Speaker 6 Right. Absolutely.
That's part of it.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And the relational aspect of life, whether it's within a marriage, you know, kids, adult kids, I mean, all of it, it is,

Speaker 1 there's a lot of obstacles and complications and different situations, but that's one thing, John, you talk a lot about. So I'm really pumped that you and Dave Ramsey are going on tour.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we're going to be on the road. I know.
So you guys are doing a money and relationships tour. Dave and the kid.
So it's Dave and the Kid. And again, this is...

Speaker 1 Such a fun event because you, the audience, shape the content that they're doing.

Speaker 1 So it's calls just like this of like, oh my gosh, relationally, here's the thing I'm dealing with or my money, here's this over here.

Speaker 1 And that, depending on the city, depending on who's in the audience, ends up building out the event, which I love.

Speaker 6 So every show is going to be different, all new stories. And yeah, I'm pretty excited about this.
I don't usually get nervous. I'm kind of nervous for this.

Speaker 6 Hey, me and Dave being on stage together for two and a half hours.

Speaker 1 It's going to be a trip. It's going to be funny.

Speaker 6 And the audience lobbing grenades, and it's going to be a blast.

Speaker 1 So good. So if you are in Louisville, they'll be there April 21st.
Durham, April 23rd. Atlanta, April 25th.
That's my birthday. Happy birthday, Rachel.
I'm going to get you two two tickets.

Speaker 1 Oh my gosh, what a great gift. Phoenix, May 5th, Fort Worth, May 7th, and Kansas City, May 6th.
You can go to ramseysolutions.com slash tour to check it out.

Speaker 1 And all of you listening on podcasts and watching on YouTube, the show is ending for you. But if you head over to the Ramsey Network app, it is free.

Speaker 1 You can watch the third hour completely distraction-free, which is awesome, and go further into all the content we have there.

Speaker 1 So make sure to check out the Ramsey Network app, and we will see you there.