Don't Let Other People Sway Your Money Decisions

What up? What's going on, America? This is The Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney, joined by my great friend, number one bestselling author, Rachel Cruz.
And we're talking about your wealth, and we're talking about relationships, talking about work that you love. We're talking about everything.
And today's a big day. It's the first day of a long weekend retreat here we have at Ramsey called Money and Marriage.
And the studio's packed. It's awesome.
Good to see everybody. So fun.
I think we have a total of, is it 800 couples coming this weekend? I don't remember. There's a bajillion people here.
Yeah, so it'll be. It sold out a year ago, and I'm excited about it.
And you and I have been off the road for a while. Yes.
Except doing private stuff, and so I'm excited to be back on stage and having a good time. It's going to be so fun.
Dude, I'm so, so excited. And, okay, let's go out to Fayetteville, North Carolina, and talk to Mara.
Hey, what's up, Mara? Hi. How we doing? How are you guys doing? We're doing great.
We're running a scam. It's called a podcast YouTube show.
It's amazing. You should get this job.
It's awesome. What's up? I was calling to get some advice on my financial situation.
So basically, I'm going to try to keep it short. I'm an over-the-road truck driver.
I'm an owner-operator. When I got into trucking as an owner, you know, back in like 21, everything was good as far as that was concerned.
I was just living and spending and not living on a budget, and just the money was kind of just rolling in, and everything was great. I thought I was doing good.
And then things shifted. I had to have like three surgeries a little over a year and that had me taking time off work and blowing through my savings and when I I did the very what I'm finding is a very popular thing of thinking oh if I pay off all my credit cards in the same month that's a good thing so that quickly went into me not being able to pay off the balances and, you know, accumulating more credit card debt and things like that.
So anyway, so the, I got into a really tough spot. I used to work at a bankruptcy law firm and I reached out to the girls that I know that still work there.
And they were telling me that, yes, they looked at were like yeah you can absolutely file um but they're they're requiring um I guess a trustee is requiring that anybody with a uh with a car note over I think she said six or seven hundred dollars they were going to require you to render your car they wouldn't let you keep it if you if it's higher than that number so hold Why are you thinking about declaring bankruptcy? How bad is it? Well, because I was overwhelmed and I thought I couldn't get out of this hole, but that's the funny, well, it's not funny, but that's the thing. You guys just started showing up on my Facebook feed.
I never even searched you, but somehow here you guys come. We're a cult, dude.
We'll find you. We'll find you.
Or Jesus will. Or Jesus will.
Yeah, we we've got kool-aid that we pass out to the internet real quick so we can help you because we got a few minutes okay what what give me give me a list of your debts because now you're you're thinking oh gosh the only way i can get out of this is bankruptcy but now you're thinking maybe you can do it okay go medical bills like 50 grand okay um credit Credit card, 15,000. Okay.
No mortgage. And then the car, I owe like 36 on the car.
Okay. And that's it? And because I've seen the show, my take-home income is like 60,000.
Okay. And trucking slowed way, way, way down, right? Very, very much.
Yes. And I,

I, um, yeah, I made the mistake of living how, like adjusting my life for how it was then,

instead of thinking how it could go. It's all good.
We're going to, you found us on the

internets and we're going to change it. Do you, um, do you, so you have no savings? You blew

through your savings just to keep in me. Is that much, yeah.
Are you behind on anything right now? Yeah. Like I got to a place where I just stopped.
I was like, I'm going to just file bankruptcy. Okay.
Has it gone into collections, the credit cards? Some of them, yeah. Okay.
How many credit cards is the $15,000? Let's just say maybe eight. Okay.
and some of them yeah so okay how many credit cards is the 15,000 let's just say maybe eight okay and some of them have gone into collections not all how's your how's the medical debt what's what's the status on that um that's they had me like on a payment arrangement okay are you current on that or are you behind on that one no I, I'm current on the medical bill. Okay.
And then last question for your car, you owe 36. Do you know how much it's worth? Have you Kelly blue booked it? Yeah.
My Kelly blue book said it's between 25 and 29. Yeah.
Yeah. Okay.
All right. Perfect.
Okay. So I mean, I would first thing is get rid of the car.
It's too much car for your income. And so you can't, yeah, you can't afford this car.
Bankruptcy, I would not, I would take off the table for sure. You're not even close.
So I would, you'll probably have to take a loan for the difference and add a couple thousand more on that loan. So you can get just a beater car for like five grand, four grand to get you around.
And that'll help and do a private sale because hopefully maybe you can even get 30 out of it, right? So maybe you're looking at like a 10 grand car note or 10 grand loan versus a 36. And then these credit cards, I would call each of the collection, the ones that are in collections, and I would talk to them and be honest about your situation.
Just say, hey, I don't have a ton, but I extra I'm trying to get x amount and as you do your own math about you're probably getting next you're going to get an extra job uh to help get some of this cleared up tell them like hey I think I can get you you know if one of the cards has three grand on it just say I can get you one thousand seven hundred and twenty eight dollars by this date like try to get like a very specific number to them. Cause I mean, some of them will settle for, uh, you know, pennies on the dollar, some of these and get that in writing, but I would work that credit.
I would work that 15,000 down if you can just through negotiations, get rid of the car. And then that 50 grand that's left, that's going to be the mountain to climb.
Um, but I would stay current on it. But again, you're making 60 right now.
And I mean, I would try to, man, I try to make 2,000 extra a month. I mean, I would do, are you on the road a lot with trucking though? What's that? What's your lifestyle situation? Yeah, like I'm literally on the road right now.
I have to pull over. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Are you over the road? Are you in town?

No, I'm over the road.

I'm doing a load to Michigan right now, or North Carolina.

And when you get back, do you turn around and flip it and head out again,

or do you have some downtime?

Well, I'm an owner-operator, so I can do how I want to.

You can do what you want.

Okay.

Yeah, exactly.

I heard you mention this a few times.

Rachel laid out a plan.

We're not doing bankruptcy here, okay?

We're not trying to hack our way through this,

but you're going to have to change the way you live.

Yeah.

And you're going to have to change the way you see the world,

and right now you're going to have two years of this sucks.

Okay?

Okay.

If you'll commit right now, how old are you?

I'm 39. All right.
I want you to write a letter today to 41 year old you and tell 41 year old you what you're what you decided to do today as a 39 year old so that 41 year old you could breathe okay and i'm going to give you um uh financial peace university i'm going to give you all the classes for free i'm going to give you every dollar app for a year so you can start tracking every freaking penny and this is this is going to be listen it's going to be how you spend money on the road it's going to be how you get take an extra job you're going to work when you're tired you're going to go and you're going to go you're going to go you're going to go okay and you're going to you're not going to pretend these stupid credit cards don't exist because they do you're going call the companies like rachel said you're gonna stare down this dragon piece by piece by piece okay yeah is that cool i got it you guys answered my question you can do it mara it's it's gonna be hard i mean it's this is a this is a totally you know from a 39 year old shifting the way you viewed and handle money and it's not gonna be. We always say you can wander your way into debt, but you cannot wander your way out.
So it's going to be an intense probably two years. Oh, but on the other side of this, I'm like, it's going to be so hopeful for you.
So we're excited. You're going to be 41 whether you want to or not.
The question is, do you want to be 41 and not owe anybody anything? Or do you want to be 41 and still chasing ghosts? This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back.
This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

All right, you've heard me say this a thousand times,

and I'm going to keep saying it.

You're worth being well.

And I believe therapy can help.

Right now, BetterHelp is offering 90% off your first week of therapy,

now through March 31st.

So if you've been on the fence,

this is your chance to try therapy for a fraction of the cost. Because let's be honest, we all spend money on things we hope will make us feel better, like new clothes, organic groceries, gym memberships.
But when it comes to actually digging in and getting real with our mental and emotional well-being, we hesitate, we pause. And I know actually going to therapy can seem like a huge first step, but please hear me.
Your mental and emotional health are just as important as your physical health. BetterHelp makes therapy more accessible than you think because it's online, so you can talk with your therapist when it works for your schedule.
You just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist, and you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. Your well-being is worth it, and this offer makes it easier than ever to start.
90% off your first week of therapy now through March 31st, 2025. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Deloney to get started.
That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Deloney. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show.
I'm John Delaney, joined by Rachel Cruz on our money and marriage weekend. Let's go out to New Orleans, Louisiana, and talk to Carrie.
What's up, Carrie? How are we doing? Hello. Excuse me.
I'm a little nervous. Hey, I'm nervous too.
I'm not very good at this, so we'll just be nervous together. What's up?

So let me tell you what's going on.

My mother, who's 80 years old, she lost her husband three years ago, which is my stepdad,

and they were not ever in a financial great place.

He tried to get on disability a few times and never wanted to hold down a job,

and my mom worked underneath the table a lot.

And she took care of elderly people.

Well, he passed away, left her nothing. And their house is reverse, reverse mortgage, which is the worst.
So, um, fast forward, my sister moved in with her and pays it for all the utilities and everything, her and her husband. And they moved down where my mom was to be close to their grandkids.
So now her husband found a job far away in South Carolina, and now my mom is left with all the utilities and stuff again. And originally when my stepdad passed away, she was going to move in with my sister in San Antonio, my brother close to her, or she can even move in with me.
I'm moving closer to her in about five months. So this was always an option.
This is what she was going to do because we knew she couldn't afford the house. A couple, a few weeks ago, I had both of my sisters on FaceTime and they asked me if I was able to pitch in for my mom to live in her home because she really didn't want to leave her house.
My, me and my husband have been on your baby steps. We stopped investing.
We paid off our credit card. We will pay off his car in April.
And then his student loans, we are so focused. We don't go out to eat and we are so excited about it.
And then we got this call. So I liberated with my husband.
He's like, Carrie, it's a reverse mortgage. Why would we throw in money into it when your mom has options? And this was the plan anyway, because she cannot make it by herself.
My mom is 80. She's in great shape.
She works out twice a day. She's on no meds.
She will live probably a long life. However, you know, when I went back with my sisters with the reverse mortgage and throwing money away, they were like, okay, well, what if you do it for five or six months? Like, and my husband was still like, we can do whatever you want, Carrie, but you know, I don't think it's a good idea.
She has ways of, you know, being living, but just not in her home. The home isn't falling apart.
So I feel bad because I'm the daughter that said no. And now I feel a rift.
Yeah. The rift is my brother who's 60 and my brother is 60.
Didn't get asked to pay some of the money every month because he is not great himself, but he does have a home that's paid for, that he was inherited, that she can stay, but it's just small. So, of course, he's never a part of the equation because he's never had the money to help.
So, I said no, and my husband makes great money. You're having your heart broken is real, okay? Yes.

And trying to search but it's this fault and this person should have and i can't believe that it all of that is a distraction from just how much it hurts to find your mom in this situation to find you and your husband in your own personal situation the fact that your sisters are trying to to clamor and change the plant, all this is just ugh.

And you got permission to feel bad. My rule of thumb in these situations is always, always, always choose guilt over resentment every time.
If you start paying money against the plan you'll already have established. And like I said, if it was five months and it was going to clear my mom and my mom was going to be okay, I'd be all in.
If it's five months and we're having this conversation again in five months and again in five months, then I'm making the problem worse long-term. Right.
And there's no guarantee there. I don't know what happens in three or five months.
Well, none of us do, but I'm less worried about that. Here's the deal.
If you pay this money, every time your sister calls you and you see her name come up on your phone, you're going to get pissed. Yeah.
Every time your mom texts you, you're going to get mad, and they don't deserve that. And that would be because you didn't hold your boundary, not because they exist.
That's resentment. That's not fair to them.
And my mom would never. She doesn't even bring it up.
She's never asked me for anything. She's not that type.
She's letting my sisters do it. She's very sweet, gentle lady.
Yeah. But she, it sounds like she's also, she's parenting from the one down position.
That's the nerd word in counseling where there's, there's the one up position, which is when you beat your chest, like dads do. And they're like, Hey, in my house, there's that.
But then there's the one the one down which is like oh okay i guess i just won't eat um there's some there's some pine cones in the backyard i'll just eat those and it's like all right mom where you want to eat right it's that even worse i mean she is sweet and kind and the sisters are feeling they have to either she's not doing anything in the situation so the sisters are like we have to be the parents in it or she's like i don't want to call i don't want to call car't want to call Carrie. Can you just call her for me? And so anyway, you set your boundary.
Right. And I have to stick with my husband and our plan.
Like this is my house. I have two kids and we're never going out.
We're just trying to be honing in on our. And you can't save somebody else when you're drowning.
So like that, realness and reality to making sure that your household is taken care of. Right.
I mean, if this was all reversed and you had $3 million in the bank and you're like, golly, should we help mom out? You know what I mean? Yes, help your mom out. We're totally different.
You have consumer debt. You guys are shifting the way that you're doing it you're making progress within your own family totally to be able then to help people but right now it doesn't make sense do you have it carrie do you have numbers on the house situation i'm just curious and well it's only it's only going to be 350 a piece from each one of us well i mean like her like the more i'm asking like the more like no but see there is no mortgage because it's a reverse reverse so how much did she take out insurance yes um it's her insurance and her utilities and so far and so forth and my mom has little bitty credit card bills and i told her she needs to get out of like jcp like small small things i'm like yeah but with the reverse mortgage she took money out on the equity like do you know like when they when they applied for their i don't because my No, because my stepfather took care of all that and my mom is just one of the people who just signs the papers.
She just goes along with it. Because something is probably owed at some level of all of this.
Oh, for sure. Because if she leaves the house, she's going to have to just leave the house and let them get it back.
That's right. It's going to be their house.
She's already signed it away. Right.
She's already signed it away. It's been done.
And the house is falling apart. Well, listen, Carrie, it's heartbreaking when you and your husband turn a corner and y'all start making plans.
Yes. And somebody in your family's hurting and they don't care about what you think.
Yeah. They just want your money.
They just want your time. I think it's more like my sister's been feeling sorry for my mom yeah and they see my my husband graduated from college he just got his master's and he's getting a promotion and they see us doing well and they think because my husband makes a certain amount and we're doing well that they i think they think okay well they got it well we blew money for the longest and we're just now getting our stuff together and now we're honing in and we have a plan.
Carrie Carrie Carrie listen you don't owe anyone an explanation period. You're right.
You don't. The person I think you're wrestling with is you.
Yes. And if you've drawn a line that you don't believe in.
Listen if you drew a line that you don't believe in address that but if you believe in this it's okay to feel guilty it's okay to feel upset it's okay for it to all be hard i get that but you don't owe anybody an explanation a simple hey guys we're not in a place to do it right now we just aren't we're digging out of a huge hole end of story conversation's over yes and they get to choose she was mad at me and she was like well i have some resentment but you know i'm not going to go backwards and i haven't heard from other sisters i know but carrie she's been mad at you your whole life right true that yes she's been mad at you forever this isn't any different she's been mad at you since she took her michael jackson record when our kids or whatever i don't know yeah like that's just who she is yes so you you can't live your life trying to make her happy you know why because that that finish line will always move you're right're right. Your mom has never asked for your financial help.
She's never going to. No, she's never going to ask.
Do I? And my mom will love me unconditionally. Do you know, Carrie, if your mom, does she have any money? Like, is she really truly surviving? Oh, absolutely.
Truly. From paycheck to paycheck.
Yes. I mean, she has troubled her whole life.
Yes, but does she have money? She's not working no she's not working did her husband leave she's getting some social security he has he was absolutely he just drained her down even more okay so she so the only income she's getting apart from family is social security is that correct that's it he didn't leave a life insurance policy or anything okay and know, and I'm curious, do you know the numbers of what the Social Security check is and what she needs to live off of? I literally think it's like she makes like $1,300 or $1,400 a month. Okay.
And I would be curious for bills. And I wonder too, Carrie, if some of this, I don't know if this would be helpful.
Maybe this is how I kind of function. It's like a lot of the details aren't there, knowing exactly what is she getting in, what bills actually need to be paid, how much are the exact amounts.
Some of that may help you in all of this because you could get through it, Carrie, and think like, oh. It's $50.
Yeah, it really is not as big of a deal as my sisters are even making it out to me, right? So I think the drama is there because of the family dynamics too. So I would get some hard numbers just for your own peace of mind if that helps at all.
You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies and there's too little life insurance or none at all. Grieving families are suddenly left behind scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet.
I also discovered that there are a lot of ripoffs in the life insurance world like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity. What you need is level term life insurance usually 10 to 12 times your income which is the smartest most affordable way to protect your family.
The key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for you, not for the insurance company. This is exactly what my friend Jeff Zander and his team at Zander Insurance are all about.
They shop the term life companies to find you the best options, and they've been around for over 95 years. So you know they'll be there when you need them.
Zander is the real deal, and that's why they've handled all my personal insurance for over 95 years so you know they'll be there when you need them zander is the real

deal and that's why they've handled all my personal insurance for over 25 years i trust them and you can too visit zander.com for instant online quotes or for a more personal touch give them a call at 800-356-4282.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show.

I'm John Deloney, joined by Rachel Cruz. Today's question of the day is brought to you by Why Refi? Private student loans are different than federal student loans like Sally Mae, but they hurt just the same.
Why Refi refinances defaulted private student loans and builds a custom loan based on your ability to pay. So stop feeling the pain of defaulted private student loan debt.
Go to YReFi.com slash Ramsey. That's Y, the letter Y, R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey.
And this may not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Toby in Wisconsin.
He said, I have a question about tough conversations. I'm about to propose and I would like to be sure that we have covered all the tough money conversations when it comes to money.
What are some topics to make sure I should cover or good questions to ask? Well, I would just say right off the bat, you're not going to cover all of anything before you're married. No.
I thought I had it all figured out. We went to premarital counseling.
We're like, check. Done.
We did it, and now we're ready. And then it's like, wah, wah.
I'm a quarter century in. And my wife said something the other day, and I looked at her, and just got quiet.
And I said, who are you? Like, I don't know you, right?

But great question. Yes.
And I love the optimism that you're going to get all the questions done before you get married. Okay.
So on the money side, going tactical, and this is for all of you listening and watching that maybe you're in a similar situation. When you're going into, especially a marriage, knowing all the money information that you can ahead of time is like required, right?

So how much you make,

how much you make, how much your future fiance makes, debt level, investments, if there are other accounts, credit card, retirement, I mean, anything that's out there money-wise, it should be free reign to be able to talk and know everything. Because when you get married, ideally, it all comes together as one, right? So that's on the more tactical numbers side, knowing just that basic information, which a lot of couples don't.
Run a credit report because the number of times people call and they're like, he didn't know he had this other $30,000 in student loans or whatever. I think you run a credit report and compare them.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That gets everything on the table.
Yes. And then there's more of the emotional kind of bigger questions, right? The value system conversation.
We get a question a lot of, you know, should I marry someone that has debt? And I'm like, yes. Of course.
Yes. As long as you both are in agreement on how you want to live life with money, right? So it's not if they have debt or not.
It's, hey, do you guys want to be on the same page when it comes to the subject of debts? Talk about that. I would talk about goals in life.
What are things that you want to do? One of them maybe you want to travel the world. The other one, he wants to own a home in the next four years or whatever it is, right? So some of these more goal-oriented questions, just talk about that, which hopefully those kinds of things are in the middle of other conversations that you're having about life.
Cause that's, that is money, right? Money is a tool in life that you use to do the things that you want to do. So hopefully you guys know most of that going in of kind of what you want your life to look like.
And I think underneath those things or right next to them, I think creating a rhythm that you don't have one conversation and forget it. Right.
So I think the, I'm always talking to parents, like you don't have a sex conversation. It's an ethos in your house where your kids know they can ask you any question anytime and their bodies aren't weird.
It's kind of like that. You don't have a money conversation.
Let this be begin setting up a rhythm where maybe when you're engaged once a month, you're like, hey, let's talk about our month, our week, right? And then you get

married, you want to do that every two weeks or every week. So let's start a rhythm where we're

constantly coming back to the table to have this conversation and commit to being very open-handed.

And what I mean by that is this. My wife knew when we got married i always wanted to end up in the woods i want to buy a place in the woods where nobody can see us so that when the world catches fire we're gonna be okay right that's prepper kind of yeah we we know we know what's gonna happen but here's the thing um after four years of being in the woods my wife was like she wanted this whatever she wanted cell signal right and she wanted to take less than an hour to get to the grocery store sheila unbelievable it's ridiculous right um and i wanted i wanted water all the time not just when it rained right and so um we recently uh we we kept our place, but we moved to the city where we were right.
I'd agree with that. And, but had it been locked down, um, it would have been a fight, but we are very open handed about, I really want this.
I'm going to try this one experiment with this. And if it doesn't work out, it's okay in our house to say we changed our mind.
Right. Yes.
This is a fun experiment that i think all engaged couples should do i want you it's i call it the friends experiment there were some old articles about the show friends yeah when they actually went through and said okay this apartment in manhattan would cost this this couch that like they went and ran the numbers technically got it from her grandmother so it was under like rent control there's reasons. They had reasons.
Yeah. But then Rachel would go work retail, right? And then they'd go to a coffee shop at 2 p.m.
They're all hanging out. So here's the thing.
I think it'd be fun to get on a Pinterest board. And if you're like me, you don't know what that is.
Just ask the person you're going to marry. Create a fantasy.
Like if we could have any house anywhere and then actually run what that actually cost in real life. And I think it'll be both depressing, but it will also level you back to reality.
And then y'all can be happy with the world you have now and maybe have this thing out there you want to go chase one day. But it keeps everybody from being like, I thought we're going to be a Tahoe family.
We're a Corolla family right now. We might be a used Tahoe family one day, but we're not there yet.
And it helps level everything back. Yeah, that's good.
And then I would also say, Toby, with the money specifically, since you asked about that, I think it can be so easy, especially if you're getting married later in life and you kind of have like your rhythm and the way you do money to feel like the way I do it is right. And if something is different than that, then that's wrong.
And learning that, you know, when you get married, there is strengths and weaknesses your spouse brings to the relationship. Right.
And so we all have this ability when you get married to actually learn. So, so have the curiosity mindset too, because I would say if Toby's writing into the Ramsey show, Toby's probably the one that's hardcore with money, I'm going to say.
So again, have your values, but just know, okay, if my fiance is different when it comes to money, that doesn't mean she's wrong. She actually can bring something to my life that's great.
On my honeymoon, I looked over and it's not that kind of story, James. It's okay.
On my honeymoon, I looked over and my wife was brushing her teeth. And I said these exact words.
Is that how you brush your teeth? Hey, you're doing that wrong. Stop it.
Oh my gosh. Because here's why.
Here's why. My wife is part-time serial killer.
She took her toothbrush and put toothpaste on it and then just jabbed it directly into her mouth. Oh, she didn't put water.
She didn't put water on it like a person who loves Jesus and babies and puppies, right? And so I looked at her and I was like, hey, you're doing this wrong. And she said something along the lines of, oh God, this is going to be a long forever.
Oh, crap. But here, it was like, okay, there's multiple ways to brush your teeth, right? And there's multiple ways to do things in life.
And I think what you're saying is so, so so perfect rachel you have a way and your spouse is going to have a way and what matters is what y'all agree on moving forward yeah um hey and all this and more um this turned into a pitch i didn't even mean for it to but here we are there is a money in marriage date night is it it's next week right next tuesday yes next tuesday there's a live event hosted by me and Rachel Cruz. Specific date is October 29th.
29th, yes, yes, yes. If you're listening to this in any day that's not right this second.
We're going to be talking about real topics like goal setting, budgeting, working through every season of life as a team, your marriage. It's a live stream event, so we have an entire second floor here full of people who are here for an in-person retreat this weekend.
This will be a Money Marriage event that you can have in the comfort of your own house. There's also going to be a live Q&A, and Rachel and I will answer your questions.
October 29th, get your tickets at ramsysolutions.com slash events. The total is $49, and you can click the link in the description if you're listening to this on the YouTube or the podcast.
this is a great option for all of you listening that again, you're not here in Nashville. We have another money in marriage.
In February. Yeah.
Weekend, the Valentine's weekend in February that we're going to do this same type of event. But if you are, you know, early on in the baby steps, if you guys don't have the ability to get away for two or three nights to Nashville, like this is the next best thing because John and I, as we've set up content and stuff for this event, want to set you guys up as a couple when you watch this to continue these conversations, right? So even a one-night event can be the starting point of like, hey, we want to work towards something better when it comes to our money and our marriage.
So make sure to check it out, you guys, again. October 29th, a live event via the internet, John and myself.
Tickets are $49. Go to

ramsaysolutions.com slash events and hang out with us next Tuesday night. And as always, we'll give you some questions to ask each other and we will commit to making it weird for everybody.
This is the Ramsey Show. We'll be right back.
What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 different answers. Economic growth or a recession.
Business taxes will go up or down. AI will help us work or it will replace us all.
But there's no such thing as a crystal ball. That's why more than 40,000 businesses have future-proofed themselves with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one cloud enterprise resource planning system.
Ramsey Solutions uses NetSuite, and you should too. Whether your company's earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities.
With one unified business management suite, there's only one source of truth for the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions. NetSuite's real-time insights and forecasting help you see into the future with actionable data.
And when you're closing the books in days, not weeks, you can spend less time looking backward and more time focusing on what's next. And speaking of what's next, download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning at netsuite.com slash Ramsey.
It's free at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show.
I'm John Delaney, joined byachel cruz let's go out to edmonton and talk to alberta edmonton alberta where they play hockey instead of the footballs and talk to nick what's up nick hey nick how's it going hey what's up man um not too much um i just don't know what to do in this situation um i'm 18 years old i'm turning 19 in february i have a five thousand dollar car payment and i work at a light duty mechanic shop my mom and dad don't want me to live with them anymore they'd like me to kind of move out of the nest so i was just wondering like would it be worth putting down payment on a home and just renting out bedrooms while living in it or should i get like a rental area and rent with a friend or something i just don't want to i don't want to screw myself over in the future with loans and stuff yeah i don't know how to pay for my schooling when you said a five thousand dollar car loan do you owe five grand on the note are you paying $5,000 car loan, do you owe $5,000 on the note,

or are you paying $5,000 a month?

Surely you're not.

It's $224 every month.

Okay.

That's what I'm paying.

But the total is $5,000?

But I took the loan.

The total is $5,000?

Yeah, that's what I have left to pay.

I had it out for $15,000, and I paid $10,000 down within an entire year. Okay.
Good for you, Nick. How much do you make a year? How much are you making working? That's the struggle.
I don't know because while I've only been at the shop for three months, and I just passed my probation, and also I get a flat rate, so I don't get paid per hour. I get paid per job.
So I could have an oil change that takes 20 minutes, so I only get paid for 20, but if it takes 30, I'm not getting paid for the other 10, so it kind of depends on how fast I am and how efficient I am at my job. Okay, so the last month, what did you make? What did you bring home last month? Just over $2,000.
I think it was $2,200. Okay, and do you see that being consistent month over month? Or do you think now, since you passed the probation period, all of that, do you foresee it going up another good amount? It should go up, I'm hoping, for sure.
Yeah. Because I know they're going to raise it up.
But I don't really know how fabric works too much. I'm kind of just learning how to do it still.
But yeah, I don want to move out. I'd like to live at home and, like, save up my money.
Yeah, why are they kicking you out? Yeah, what's the conversation with your parents like? Well, they're not, like, fully kicking you out, but they're kind of just mentioning it that I should probably think about leaving sooner or later. That's kicking you out, bro.
They're kicking you out. They're just doing it slow and kind, but they're kicking you you out.
How come they just want their house back? They want you to fly. Some of you to get out of the nest or are you drinking too much? Like why do they want you out of there? I don't have any habits.
I don't spend my money. I just kind of save it up.
I don't drink. I don't do drugs.
I don't do any of that. I think they're just kind of wanting me to be on my own.
Probably for, I don't know. I don't know.
No, it's great. My parents are, they're great.
Yeah, I'm one. My 14-year-old rolls his eyes at me too, man.
It's just kind of part of it. So what I would do, Nick, is I would first sit down and kind of get a timeline of what their expectations are and what's reality for you, right? You've turned 18.
You have a job. You're not making a lot.
I mean, it'll come out to like, you to like you know 20 grand you know a year at your current rate after taxes and stuff so you're not making a lot to sustain a lifestyle so I would be curious for them like it's what we're October just to say hey mom and dad I want to have more of a clear conversation with you on your expectations because I want to be respectful I'm an adult now and I understand you know I'm 18 and I can move out but I want to know what you all are thinking because that at least give you a timeline if they're like because if it's this weird period of like oh no Nick as long as it's next summer or something then you're like okay we kind of have a date so I would get a date with your parents of like here's when they want you to move out and then I mean I mean, that's, I mean, they get to set it.

I guess it's their house. But what you're going to have to realize, Nick, is that, yeah, you're going to probably have to up this income.
So whether it's that you're making more in the job that you currently have or maybe getting a second job after, because I do not want you buying a house. But renting is obviously the best option after moving out.
And if you can get friends, yeah, and get a rental house and get a couple of bedrooms

filled and you guys can like split the rent, you know, three or four different ways.

That's ideal just to lower that expense.

But I mean, as of now that you're not making a ton to live on your own.

So I mean, I would have that conversation with them too.

Part of turning 18, man, is not the most fun, but you need to also have this direct conversation with your employer too. And there's a mindset shift that happens when you're 17 and you get hired on and they put you on probation and you get to work.
The whole thing is set up as you should count your lucky stars that they picked you. But I want you to flip that around now.
If you've been pulling your weight and doing good work and you're certified now, you're 18 years old, you come to the table and say, I'm happy to be here. I need some structure.
Meaning I need to know how much money I'm going to make. I need to know what the comp schedule is, what the comp plan is.
If it's just me working 20 minutes by 20 minutes and I don't have any input on marketing, it's not even like a barber who does a great job and they get to bring clients back. It's just you're wholly dependent.
I'm not going to live that life. That's a tough life to live, 20 minutes by 20 minutes, depending on what car just rolls into the garage, right?

And so you should sit down and say, hey, I've passed my stuff. I want to talk about what a long-term plan is because I want to be here and I appreciate the risk you took on me.
I just need some guarantee on what this thing's going to look like. And then you have to make a big boy, grown-up, grown-man decision now.
Do I want to stay here but rachel's point dude 20 grand uh a year as you can't you can't live in in canada with that kind of money you can't live anywhere right yeah and rachel's right on sit down with your parents and say hey i'm getting the hints is this you want me out right now is this three months can i have six months to save up so that i can I can put a six months down on a lease or something like that? But yeah, you're in 100% no place to buy a house yet, man. Not until you are way more subtle and you can put down 10, 15, 20% down on a home in cash.
And that's after you've paid off your car, you don't owe anybody any money and you've got an emergency fund so that when the cars stop coming in the bay, you can still pay your bills every month. So you're just getting rolling, brother.
But have those hard conversations with your parents and with your employer, and be good to go there. And by the way, don't hate on your parents.
They want to see you fly, and that conversation is a hard one to have, and they're probably trying to soft play it and be nice. And if you don't have the direct conversation now, Rachel, there's going to come a day when they snap and they're like, you're out this weekend.
And that will be too, it'll be, you know, too quick for you. It'll just be a mess.
So just take, be the, be the adult here and go sit down and say, let's, let's map out an exit strategy. I love that.
Yeah, for sure. And, you know, to bring, I don't know, I think I would be

impressed if my son came and was like, hey, can I know what the average, you know, like what you're paying for lights and water, but like even knowing what it takes to run a household and ask those questions and build out a mock budget and be like, okay, here's when I'm short a month. If I were to go rent somewhere and let's say I got three roommates, you know, rent on average, I'm looking around this with utilities, car payment, food.

Like, this is probably what I need to live off of a month. Like you can kind of start making a plan and ask your parents those questions about what they pay, you know, for utilities and that kind of thing.
I mean, I feel like that would be a very mature type planning and I think they probably would appreciate it. Maybe buy you an extra week or two to live at home.
Well, and here's the thing. Let's say my son graduates and he just starts working at a local shop and all of a sudden at six months after high school graduation, he's not going to college and he's still home.
He's just going to work every day and sitting at the dinner table. I'm more of a direct guy, right? So we would have more of a direct conversation.
But if he came and sat down and said, hey, I've got a seven month plan and here's how much I'm making. I want to contribute 200 bucks.
Not a lot, but I want to contribute some to the water and electricity now. And I need seven months.
And by seven months, I'll have this much money. Dude, I would be so proud of him.
I would want to support him in every way possible and help him get launched out great. Yeah.
In situations like this, it's the lack of communication is where the messiness I feel like always, always comes into play. And, and to know that, you know, we are, we are more on this, or I'll say I am, I'm more on the side of fly and be free.
Like, I think that, you know, we, you, you can stay somewhere and save money and mathematically, financially, that's really wise. But for you as a person, when you're being taken care of by mom and dad for too long into your 20s, you know what I mean? Like in all of that, like there's just something to be said about being on your own.
There's a character thing there that happens. There's a grown, you know, you grow up faster when you do that.
So I'm more on that side. But again, under the circumstances of there are seasons for different things.
People go through different events at different times and parents can be there to help their grown children in different ways, but it's the communication.

That's right.

That's the, that's the, always going to be the number one.

So Nick, I would tighten that up with your parents and that'll give you more of security

of knowing.

And there's going to be a woman that drives in to get her oil changed and she's going

to say, can I come pick you up?

And you'd be like, yeah, from my mom's house.

Like you're going to want to get your own place.

You're going to want to get your own place.

Hey, that's the first hour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back shortly right here on the Ramsey Show.
Welcome, welcome. It's the Ramsey Show.
I'm John Deloney joined by Rachel Cruz and we are taking your calls live on your relationships, your money, building wealth, work that you love. Rachel, we've been doing this for how long? I say we.
Dave's been doing this for 30 years. The great and powerful Dave Ramsey and the rest of us have joined.
Dave and the Daveettes. Yeah.
We have joined. I'd say the last seven.
Yeah, for a while. Five, seven years.
Taking your calls on everything going on in your life. Your money, your relationships, your work, all of it.
And we're taking your calls live. No net.
888-825-5225.

It's 888-825-5225. And again, I'm John Deloney, joined by Rachel Cruz.
Call us from all over the planet. Let's go out to Oklahoma City and talk to Violet.
Violet, Violet, what's up, Oklahoma? Hi, thanks for taking my call, guys. Of course, what's going on? So I just found Dave Ramsey and you guys about two weeks ago.

I'm excited to get into it.

But how do I even begin to start working the baby steps

when my husband has cognitive decline

and will continue to decline with no cure? Tell me about it. My husband has Huntington's disease.
How far? For people who don't know, yeah, he's stage two right now, so he still can drive, and I have guardianship over him. How old is he? Right now, he's 55, actually, his late onset.
I'm sorry, Violet. So, yeah, for people who don't know, that's like having Alzheimer's, ALS, Parkinson's, and some doctors say schizophrenia as well, all together.
Yeah, it's tough. So sorry.
So have you all set, I'm assuming you've set up all the necessary power of attorneys and you've got the accounts in your name and all that kind of stuff? Yeah, I have an account in my name. We didn't do power of attorney.
He was conserved

when we lived in California. And then when I moved to Oklahoma, we just got guardianship.
So I didn't

know, should I be having power of attorney as well as guardianship? I would sit down with an

attorney yesterday and map it out. And an estate planning attorney.
And I think the thing that I hear catches most people off guard that I've sat with over the years is especially on any kind of stage and you've got cancer, you've got this kind of challenge, you've got any sort of thing that is progressive is, and they say it's progressive and maybe you got five years, progressive, maybe you got 10 years, progressive, maybe you have 18 months. The challenge is one month, two months, three months goes by and it's easy to drop your shoulders and to settle in.
Okay, I've got 36 months left like this. And what's not taken to an account is there comes a moment when everything falls off a cliff.
And if you don't have that stuff set up now, trying to deal with it, when this thing starts sliding, right? When he needs in-home care, when he is unsafe, like these things as they progress, who knows, right? How it's going to unwind, right? And so getting these things in writing, I would sit with an attorney and a state planning attorney and map out everything, whether you need a, I don't even go through all the legal stuff right now, but sit down with an attorney today or tomorrow and get that stuff squared up. And you have to stare the sunshine in the face on this when it will feel surreal that you're having this conversation because this man's been a part of your life for a long time, right? Yeah, what's the um ongoing medical care like um money wise are you guys do you have good insurance or what is that looking like for you nope nope we were living in california below poverty level and i said i don't want to live here anymore we got to go somewhere else we sold everything we owned packed up two cars with two kids and moved to Oklahoma.
How long ago was that? It was stressful, but now I'm in a job where I'm making $40,000 a year. And so I can only go up from there.
He's not working right now. Sure.
Has he filed for SSI? He actually doesn't qualify for SSI anymore because I make too much money. So we cut him off after a certain point.
I've tried talking to him. Maybe we should do legal separation, but he doesn't want to do that, which I completely understand.
Yeah, I would appeal, and I would appeal, and I would appeal, and I would appeal again and again and again and again, and your attorney can help you with that. Yeah, well, he has to have so much work credits and he just doesn't have them so i have him set up right now he's going through a program here for he's seeking employment for disabled disabled adults so that's going to help him and us how old are your kids violet 12 and 9 okay so um okay so financially real quick because we have a couple of minutes with you.
Where are you guys at? So tell me, I know your income and then debt wise, how much do you guys have in debt? Debt wise, we're only 12,000. Okay.
What's it on our cards? We don't, and that's just credit cards. Okay.
Okay. And you're using the credit cards to basically live above poverty line in California?

Was it to sustain a level of living?

Pretty much, yeah.

Okay.

Are you guys in a place with your income and living in Oklahoma that you're able to,

are you able to live paycheck to paycheck,

or are you dipping into the credit cards monthly to keep afloat?

No, we're living paycheck to paycheck. We're making minimum payments on everything, so we're not behind on anything.
But there's extra spending with somebody who, you know, he has to have this, this, and this. Oh, for sure.
That money that can be going to this, you know. Sure.
I need money for this. And I'm like, we really don't.
So he's kind of excited.

He's like, okay, I want to get out of debt.

So do I just keep doing like having the separate bank accounts?

There's one with mine in his name and then one with his name

so that I can funnel money in him when he needs it.

Everybody's got to be above board on this.

Is he able to be a co-manager of the money of the household right now from his mental capacity state yes and no I mean he'll see something oh I want that the most important thing is that he has a safe place to live and that you and his kids are safe um and so if if he has um golly if he is unable to yeah i know but he it's a couple of expenses away if y'all share an account and he just um he has an impulse purchase not blaming him but he's not well he makes an impulse purchase he's not? Yeah. Right, right.
It's not his fault. So at some point you have to protect yourselves, and if he can hear that conversation, amazing.
If he can't, then maybe you put $25 in, quote-unquote, his account, and you are managing on the side. Okay? That's what I'm wondering to do.
Yeah, I think that's great. That's what I want to do, and I think that's best.
I'm never about division. We're always about sharing money, but this is a very special situation.
If you've just come on to us, you know, the last two weeks and you've binged and looked up any videos about married couples, I mean, 99% of the time we say combined accounts, combined accounts, combined accounts. We have a whole marriage weekend.
We're going to talk about combined accounts, be on the same page, but there are reasons not to. And if there's addiction involved, if there is abuse, and in this case, I i would say you know if if the other spouse mentally cannot handle that then for sure i mean there's common sense that plays into all of this right and so um i think yeah for you to be the one that is really uh it's and i even hate to say that but it's terrible but the adults in the situation um because sadly with what with what he, it's going to continue to progress the opposite way.
And so just to put you guys in a great position, if you hold on the line, Violet, Christian's going to pick up and we want to gift you Financial Peace University and every dollar for a year and also get signed up with a financial coach and have an hour session on me and John. We'll pay for it.
But to sit down with actually someone to look some of your numbers, because I also think that there's, from a medical standpoint, things I want to make sure are covered within the trust, because there's some complications there. So we'll get you an hour with a financial coach to go over some of that.
We'll be thinking about your calls anytime, Vida. This is The Ramsey Show.
All right, Dave, you have some strong opinions. Possibly, yeah.
I think so. Okay, because you really prefer credit unions over big banks.
So why is that? Well, credit unions, for one thing, are non-profit, which means that the members, the customers, own the credit union. So any profits that the credit union makes goes back into customer pricing.
So you get better interest rate on savings, cheaper checking, and so on, that kind of thing. But what's more important than that, though, is the fact that the customer is the owner changes the spirit on the credit union.
So I find very few credit unions that aren't very customer-centric. Yes.
Well, and I think we have found one that is incredible, and that's Fairwinds. They are an incredible credit union that is really out with the heart to help the customer.
You know, that's why we're partnering with them, because they've got a scope to be able to handle the Ramsey audience, and they're the right kind of people with the right kind of values. And they've done a really, really good job with customer service.
And the deals that they're offering, the Ramsey Tribe is incredible. Yeah, absolutely.
And you're right. Their customer service is unbelievable.
Winston and I just signed up and we got an account. And I'm not kidding.
It took less than five minutes. It was so user-friendly.
The step-by-step approach was unbelievable. And then the next day, my phone rings, and it says Fairwinds on my phone.
So I answered it and talked to someone there, and they said, yeah, they give calls to every new customer. And so, again, they just really care about your experience, and I so, so appreciate that.
So, again, you guys, I know it can be a pain to switch banks or to open up new accounts, but Fairwinds, again, they make it so easy. Plus, anything that you can do at a traditional branch, you can do with them at fairwinds.org or on their app, and you'll have free access to over 33,000 ATMs.
Hey, you guys know how much I hate banks in general, and so for me to do this is a big deal. Talk to our friends at Fairwinds and check out the combined checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsey tribe.
You guys, it's incredible. Yeah, you guys, it's so easy to join Fairwinds no matter where you live.
So go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey to learn more. That's F-A-I-R-W-I-N-D-S dot org slash Ramsey.
If you're a small business owner and you feel burned out, then you've got to join us at Entree Leadership Summit this May 18 through 21. This leadership conference will refuel you with fresh vision and connect you to like-minded leaders so you can take your business to the next level.
But you better hurry because we're running out of seats. We've got less than 200 seats left.
If you want to join us in Denver, Colorado, go to RamseySolutions.com slash summit right now. Or if you're listening on YouTube or podcast, just click the link in the description.
Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney joined by Rachel Cruz.
Let's go out to Albany, New York and talk to Jessica. Hey, Jessica, what's going on? Hi.
How's it going? So I'm calling because I have a whole life insurance policy that I've been holding on to since 2012. And now I'm thinking, hearing Dave and you guys and hearing that the whole is garbage and that I should switch the term.
But I'm not sure about the tax implications and stuff like that.

I just don't really know what to do with the life insurance policy from here on out.

Okay.

Have you looked into what the payout will be if you dissolve it?

So it says the cash value is eight grand.

Okay.

And... Of your money back to you.

That drives me crazy.

Yeah.

And have you looked into term at all to make sure that you,

I mean, are you healthy, Jessica?

Like you could probably get another insurance.

I'm going to be 39.

I'm 39 now. I'm going to be 40 next year.
So I'm kind of like, do I hold on to it? I have two little ones. My husband's the primary beneficiary, but my oldest daughter is the contingent.
And I'm like, do I hold on to this? I already called the company and asked them if I should, you know, if I could switch it from hold a term. And of course they said, no, you could cash it out and then get a term insurance policy with us.
And I'm like, I don't know what the tax implications are or anything, or if it'd be worth it to do that, or if I should just hold on to, because it looks like it is, it's gotten like $1,500 in the last year. Yeah, but it's your money.
According to the statements that, right. So the way, yeah, they take your money, you overpay them.
They invest that money. They take a piece of the investment return and then they call you and they're like, look what you have.
And it's a crappy return anyways. So yeah, so no, I would cancel it regardless of what the, whatever the fees and tax implication is.
I don't know what taxes are when you cash it out it may be income it may be like a like a capital it's eight thousand bucks it's not very much money yeah so i would i would pay the taxes on it five dollars a month so i've been ignoring it for all this time how much how much i'm listening to you guys i'm like all right i need to do something about this yeah how much are you paying a month for it? 55. 55? Yeah, I'm a state worker.
I make around 50 a year, so I wasn't really missing it, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, gotcha, gotcha.
I still don't want to be robbed slowly by the insurance company either. Totally, and that's what it ends up being when you're pairing an investment and insurance together.
You're always going get a crappy product usually on both sides but for sure on the investment side so um so yeah I would cancel it for sure today but before well before you cancel it I should say make sure you have term in place because I do want you to have life insurance you guys have two little kids um so I would still have life insurance and so you do work is that what you said outside the home yeah okay so I would get a policy 10 to 12 times your annual income and that's about that's around the policy that you would need and I would go to Xander you can go to Xander.com or give them a call Xander insurance and they're great because there are more they're they're an insurance broker so they're going to shop all different companies to get you the best deal versus like this one you call I don't know state farm and it's just state farm or whatever you know like you'll be able to get um all different kinds of of quotes and that so that's what I would do and then I would go ahead and apply and get that coverage going first and the day that goes into place the pop the term policy then I would call whole life cancel it get your eight grand to move on. Gotcha.
All right. And then, okay, so you said 10 to 12 months for my life insurance policy.
10 to 12 times your annual income. If you make 50 grand, yeah, I would get a policy at a minimum of 500 grand, which should not cost you very much money a year.
Okay. It won't be, it won't be a huge cost.
And by the way, um, this isn't just us pitching a product. When I was 40, maybe 40 or 41, I did the exact thing you're doing.
I called Xander and got my insurance moved over to them with term and it's, it's fantastic. Gotcha.
Okay. Awesome.
Yeah. I just want to say also, God bless you guys and thank you for the work that you do.
Oh, thank you so much. You're super kind.
And yeah, like Rachel, I hear that a lot on like, what's the taxes going to be? It's eight grand. Let's pay the taxes and move on with your life.
For whatever it is. Yeah.
If you have $8 million, well, let's start worrying about the tax implications. Totally.
Yeah. Yeah.
When you start looking at, you know, $55 a month and it may feel like, oh, that's, you know, no big deal. But over time, what it adds up and then what you end up paying for terms is a fraction of that anyways.
And always, again, the rule of thumb is your insurance and your investments should never be mixed. Because you're not going to get the rate of return that you could if you put it, you know, even in an index fund or Vanguard or the market, right? Yeah, in any other place, you're going to get a better rate of return.
And a lot of these too, I'm like, they just, it's that slow leak that they just continue just to like take and take. And if it goes up, it just goes up.
And you know what I mean? It doesn't feel clean whole life. There's some entanglements there

that are not great.

There's mixed priorities there, right.

Let's go out to Spokane, Washington

and talk to Elizabeth.

Hey, Elizabeth, what's happening?

Hi, guys.

How are you?

Awesome.

We're running a scam

called a YouTube show and a podcast.

What are you up to?

I love it.

I watch you guys all the time.

Very cool.

What's up?

Not much. I was just hoping to get your guys' advice.
We are pretty good, but we're not as good as we could be. I feel like we're still struggling month to month, kind of like paycheck to paycheck.
And how do we get ahead? How do we start, like, invest saving? Like we have three kids. I homeschooled.
We're a one income household. Um, and the economy is kind of killing us.
Yeah. So here's, here's the hard, the hard truth.
You and me and your spouse and my wife and Rachel and Winston, all of us go home as a family and we make choices. And that's not how it was set up for us.
We all grew up and they're like, dude, if you just go to college or just do this, then you can do this and this and this and this and this. And sometimes like the dream of we want, we want mom to stay at home.
Awesome. we want to not get into the schools we want to homeschool kids cool but we can't eat or we're just floating month to month to month and it's you guys as a family having to back out of that situation and say okay the price of milk is bananas right now the price of bananas is bananas right now.

It is.

My two youngest are not school age, so if I went back to work, we'd have

to pay for daycare.

I don't think you're saying go back to work.

I'm not saying you go back to work. I'm saying everybody makes choices.

Elizabeth, I want to know

financially, where are you guys at?

Do you guys have consumer debt?

No. We have

credit cards. We don't use them.
They are zero balance. We own our cars and all our vehicles.
How much does your husband make a year? About 65. Okay.
And are you guys on a written plan, like a very detailed budget every single month that you know exactly here's the amount we have to spend? Okay. I think, no.
Okay. So I think the budget is probably, I no no it's fine um i mean i think that's gonna help a lot and if you stay on the line after this call christian will pick up and we'll give you every dollar premium for a year because i think the budget it's one of those places elizabeth that once you do it and you actually have boundaries around certain categories in your life and you force yourself to live within them then suddenly you're like oh there's our margin there's our margin it's not getting eaten up by that extra you know fast food run that we're going to go do or out to eat or whatever like it's it is amazing when you do plan out and stick to that plan it's going to take about three months for you guys to get it to work so remember that 90 days give yourself a lot of grace between now and christmas but i want that to be your homework to say okay okay, we're going to sit down and do this.
And then out of that and finding some margin,

and you'll look back on your accounts and your checking account last month and be like, oh my

gosh, we're paying for two subscriptions we never use. When you actually start getting in the weeds

of it, it is amazing what comes to the surface. And even if it's 30, 40 bucks here or there,

that adds up. I mean, that will get you some margin and so do you guys have um do you guys have an emergency fund oh i just hold one second there you go oh that's fine okay so elizabeth i would yeah whatever the phone too there you go there you go do you guys have an emergency fund elizabeth do you have any savings we do not have a specific emergency fund we We've got a decent amount in our checking account.
Okay. So what I would do is open up a high yield savings and I would move three to six months of expenses out of your checking out to that.
And then that's not touched. So that's your emergency fund.
If you have to have a few months to add to that savings to get that three to six months, do it. And then from there, I would start investing 15% of your income into retirement and start that going.
That can be through his 401k or Roth IRA. You guys can open up.
Listen, I know a lot of you would rather watch paint dry in slow motion than file your taxes, but thankfully you don't have to dread filing when you've got Ramsey smart tax. It comes packed with everything you need to file online before the big deadline.

That means all major federal forms and deductions are covered with no hidden fees.

Plus, with Ramsey SmartTax, you can save up to 70% compared to other tax software out there.

It's a no-brainer.

Just go to RamseySolutions.com slash SmartTax and see how simple tax filing can be.

That's RamseySolutions.com slash SmartTax.

Welcome, welcome, welcome back to the Ramsey Show. We have two amazing people staring at us

on the debt-free stage. Jared and Caitlin, and Caitlin and I are twins.
Did y'all call each

other and plan this? The exact same jumpsuit. Marshalls? No, maybe it's not.
Loft. $30.
Rachel. Whoa, you just got out-purchased.
Out-purchased. Rachel's like, mine was probably 75% off.
Mine was $750. No, it was not.
No, it was not. Okay, we're here for you guys.
Y'all, you're on the debt-free scream stage because... We're debt-free.
You're debt-free. Congratulations.
Where are you guys from? Dripping Springs, Texas, about 30 minutes west of Austin. By Austin.
I know we're Dripping Springs. Oh, yeah.
5-1-2. I know where that is.
It's beautiful. There we go.
That's awesome. Okay.
How much did you guys pay off? $158,244 in 34 months. Oh, my gosh.
In 34 months. Making what kind of money during that time?

$120 to $170. Okay.
Well done, you guys. Okay.
So what happened 34 months ago where you were like, okay, over two years ago, you said something's got to change. What happened? Well, we got married and we were thinking that we have no business trying to, and this is a personal conviction for me, but no business trying

to start a family taking care of our past when we can be investing in our children's future.

And so that was a goal for us. And that was something that we love our parents and all the

support we've had, but we wanted to, it's really big for me to make it one step better for my kids,

make it a little bit easier for them. So we want to start investing before they hit they hit the ground.
So, okay. So you guys, were you just married around two years ago then? Yeah, we got married in April of 21.
Okay, perfect. And then you're looking at this debt.
What was the one 50? What kind of debt was it? Just, uh, two cars and some student loans. Okay.
The student loans. Hey, are you, Jared, are you from that area? Not originally.
I'm from the Fresno, California originally.

Are you really?

Yes, sir.

Because you have a swoon, a Texas swoon about you.

I'm the Texan.

But I mean, I'm just imagining being in your seat,

and this tall drink of water comes in and sits down in his cowboy boots,

and he says, I want to invest in our children's future.

I think I would have married him, too too actually uh met two-stepping yeah of course you know what of course she did yeah it's great golly man like i feel like i'm getting warm in here oh man okay so now that it's that it's paid off when you look back what what what all did you do that really helped this journey because that's a lot of money to pay off in and right at two years yeah well we actually started the journey the monday after our wedding so unfortunately jared got laid off a few weeks how many weeks was it it's about eight weeks before we got married okay we got married yeah but he got a new job starting monday after so we decided not to go on our honeymoon and put the honeymoon money aside wow put it towards debt and keep rolling so now we're debt free and then we're now saving up to go on our honeymoon on a honeymoon however many years later i thought you were rad dude but you got laid off and you just went and Found another job. Well I started I got laid off on a Friday after that freeze that came through the state and so I started work the next Monday.
When all the Texans found out they weren't connected to a grid. If you could run a chainsaw you had plenty of work to do.
My friends were sending pictures of themselves getting drinking water from snow on their grill. I just threw it in four and went back to work and landed a job pretty soon there after that and just got after it.
Wow, that's amazing, guys. Golly, dude.
They don't make guys like this anymore, Caleb. No, they don't.
Golly, man. Okay, so for you guys, what was the hardest part? Because I keep saying two years.
It was more like three, close to three. What was what were the things that were just man that you just hated so much in this process I think for for me personally and I can kind of speak for her although she's gonna say what she wants to say that's how she rolls but uh good man right it's good uh-huh you should I think it was adopting that mindset and just like this was not in our hand like you said Dr.
John but it was in our lap I mean for me specifically I mean I had a the government promised me that I was going to have an aviation contract and and two and a half years into that and a year of being on medical review that that didn't end up happening and that's how I went from personally zero debt I was out of state two semesters and so I went from a full full ride scholarship with the Navy into 30 grand and then might as well finish out the degree. So 45 grand.
So I think it was just for me, though, meeting her. We got to share a lot of this.
And that's what's a beautiful part of marriage is like I got to share some of my tenacity and she got to share some of her patience with me. And so together, that to the budget and uh just letting god take the wheel and keeping our foots on the gas i mean lord's gonna get you where you need to go hey i think i'm gonna we have a are y'all coming to the money marriage retreat this week we are yes i think you need to keynote that brother because i can't i mean you just said it better than i could have said that's that's a that's incredible well i listened you yesterday in the vineyard, Dr.
John, so I appreciate you. You have a vineyard? That's what I do.
I'm a wine grape farmer. You're like a movie character, man.
It's like a Hallmark movie character. Good gosh.
I'm a vineyard farmer. I'm a vineyard.
I'm a glorified farmer. It's a vineyard manager.
And it's what it is.

And your wife's getting

these secret magic deals

at Marshall's.

Yeah.

Yesterday,

and I fortunately

with some of my Navy training

was able to iron this bad boy

in the hotel

before we got here.

Okay.

Look at that.

See?

So great.

The only part of your story

that rings a little false to me

is when you said

that the government

made a promise

and they didn't come through.

They never do that. They always, always person precisely precisely all right caitlin what was this like for you what was the biggest like i imagine honey i lost my job and you saying okay we're gonna well i'm in this we're gonna do this together i got a new job yay and it's monday yeah right like walk us.
Well, it's actually a great story. We had our wedding, my wedding dress in tow.
We were dropping his friend off at the San Antonio airport. And the day after our wedding, we actually went to his new job site at a new vineyard.
And my wedding dress was just in the back. And we're like, here we are.
Wow. just a lot of hard work for me what I struggled with the most is the comparison trap that we all fall in yeah so um and through the years I mean it's that was one thing that I still held on to that was really hard but just even getting on this stage is going to be really it's really freeing for me so we can't wait to see what happens next.
So great. Yeah.
Pretty big deal. So how does it feel? You guys standing here completely debt free versus almost three years ago, you're getting married, starting a new job with $150,000 in debt.
What's the, what's the contrast of you guys three years ago versus today? Complete freedom, liberation. So good.
Peace. That's the biggest part is it's like it's the peace it's like okay something happens tomorrow who cares yeah we're good that's it six months you know whatever so good and then now the whatever future kids you may be blessed with um we'll never know that struggle right right that was the goal mission accomplished i love that okay where to be? Where's the honeymoon going to be? Do you know? We're going to try to go to New Zealand and Australia at the end of the year.
Yes. Go drink some Sauvignon Blanc.
Oh, Vineyard Guy. Yeah, that's what he's talking about.
Oh, so good, you guys. We are rooting for you.
Absolutely incredible. Absolutely incredible.
I just thought movies like The Notebook aren't real. And then here's this couple right here.
Jeez Louise. Y'all are amazing.
Incredible, incredible. Well, it does.
And it says something about you all that you're starting a brand new chapter from a relational standpoint. And then you're starting a brand new money chapter.
I mean, doing new things all at once, I guess maybe easier. I don't know.
You just dive right in and go. But man, not a lot of people can can hold that level of change because I mean, shifting your money perspective, it's a that's a big that's a big ship to turn.
Right. Especially if you'd had been on one path for so long, like you guys had been.
And it took me about 20 years of being married before I realized, oh, yeah, my wife's different than me. And that's a good thing.
Right. And you already know.
Yeah. Like I'm fired up and she's patient.
And that works like we work together that way. And you can appreciate those differences instead of going to war with them every morning.
So good for you guys. Y'all are inspirational and just amazing.
So great. So we want to thank you all for the incredible wise advice and inputs that you put into our lives.
Because we're able to, you know, now lead our life group. And so we thank you and you've started a started a generation.
I appreciate that. You guys did it.

Jared and Caitlin from Austin, Texas paid off.

How much is it?

$150,000 in 34 months making $120,000 to $170,000.

Count it down.

Count it down.

Let it rip.

Glory to God.

We're death free!

That's how it's done, America. You can do it too too we'll be right back on the Ramsey show hey guys good news pre-sale is on now for my new book build a business you love if you're a business owner you know running a business is hard that's why I wrote this book to share what we learned over the last 30 years so business owners can grow your business faster with fewer mistakes.
Pre-order your copy today, and you'll get access to over $350 in bonus items only at RamseySolutions.com slash store. RamseySolutions.com slash store.
Pre-order today. All right, welcome back to the Ramsey show.
All right, listen, if you listen to the Ramsey show or if you listen to my other show, the Dr. John Deloney show, and especially on that show, man, we take a lot of calls, Rachel, about relationships, sex, intimacy, the whole thing.
And so after several years of putting out questions for for humans more and more and more and more and more and more people asking hey can we have the intimacy deck can we talk about like have those kind of questions those kind of conversations and so after a couple years finally here we are the questions for humans intimacy deck these are questions about yes sex and intimacy, but it goes way deeper than that. And, man, everyone who's written back in who's got these things, you're going to learn something unexpected.
You're going to laugh. You're going to learn some things maybe aren't so funny, but you're going to learn, and you're going to learn.
You're going to build emotional intimacy, have fun. And here's the most important thing, connected, quality time together.
And I don't know any married people very very actually very very few who don't need some assistance asking some of those deeper harder questions and it's easy to point to the deck and be like hey it's not me it's the card like what's the answer that's it tell me you are worth a marriage it's incredible so get questions for humans intimacy edition today and by the way we've made third editions all brand new questions for couples for friends for parents and kids that's all new questions so you can get all this at ramsay solutions.com slash store or you can click the link in the description if you're listening on youtube or podcast and i'll say this uh we went to chick-fil-a uh-huh and they kind of a version of this, John. They have a, yeah, and it's my kid's favorite part.
Of course it is. And I was like, oh man, I need to get John's cards for our family.
So for the parenting ones, I'm going to pick up a pack. Okay, but don't, I, I, I, not that.
I got confused. Not the intimacy.
No, no. The question for human intimacy is not good for your kids no i don't know that would make dinner super weird saying the concept of the cards yes and asking these questions winston and i love doing it together all right i'm saying our kids yeah they love it they love asking us questions off these chick-fil-a cards which yours i'm sure and i remember leaving um i had a deck of parents and kids.
I left in the car on accident.

I was just getting them from work to the house.

And Josephine, my daughter, pulled them out.

And still to this day, she'll grab one out.

Even if it's the same question, what I found is with kids, a year later, the answer is different.

And it just makes it fun.

It's so great.

I love it.

So, ramsysolutions.com slash store.

All right, let's go out to Des Moines, Iowa, and talk to Kelly. What's up, Kelly? Yes.
What up? How are you guys? I mean, could not be better. We're doing great.
How about you? I'm doing all right. Thank you.
If you were doing great, you wouldn't be calling us. What's up? So I'm calling because my husband and I, I'll give you kind of some details.
Happily married for 10 years. We've been together for 18.
And his mom has been having some health issues the last couple of years. And a couple of years ago, we downsized her to a smaller home, everything all on one level, and things have been going great until last year.
We got a phone call from the bank when we were on vacation that they were concerned about the amount of money exiting her account. When we get back home, we found out that over the course of about nine months, she had given away over $150,000 in scams.

And there's no recourse.

The money is gone.

It's gone.

It's not fraudulent.

It was all on her own doing.

Yikes.

And so, thankfully, the home that we downsized her to is in our name.

And thank goodness, because we are pretty confident that the person scamming her would have convinced her to get a second mortgage on the property. So we've had a lot of conversations over the last year and a half about the amount of times that she has fallen and gotten hurt.
And the reason that I think she even fell victim to these scams is that she's very lonely. She has been living on her own for over 30 years and we just felt, you know, how can we sit back and watch her be lonely and depressed and have these health issues and we felt it on our hearts to welcome her into our home.
The home that we are currently in is very small. It is our pre-marriage home, and we have dramatically outgrown it.
So we identified and purchased a new home that we closed on last week. The part of the financial intention of all of this was that the current home we are in, we own free and clear.
And the home that she is in, that is in our name, we also own free and clear. We were getting a bridge loan, able to move into the new home and sell both of those properties, therefore then owning the new home completely debt free.
Right. Yeah.
Since we have closed on the new home nine days ago, she has started exhibiting some behaviors that I have never seen out of her in 18 years. She has become very angry, very demanding, and I hate to say even almost entitled about the new home.
And it has just been giving me all sorts of red flags about, I don't know if I can do this anymore. How old is she, Kelly? She will be 73 in a couple months.
Has your husband sat down and laid out the ground rules for moving into your house so we did sit down with her two nights ago and I was very candid about that I thought I was ready for this that we have discussed this for about a year and a half and all of a sudden I'm feeling a big wave of regret and I like I may have overpromised something that I don't know that I can deliver on anymore. And she admitted that part of why she is recently very angry with us is because we have had to take over her finances.
Sure. Because she continually was making poor choices.
And so she's very, very angry with us that we have not allowed her to obtain a new credit or debit card. Sure.
Are y'all have some sort of financial power of attorney? Yes, my husband does. Okay, so does she have some sort of diagnosis that makes that possible or does she sign it over to you? We had the financial power of attorney in place when we purchased the home that she is in, in 2021.
I know, but she would have had to sign that over as an adult. Like what keeps her from going to just get her own credit card? So part of what we did as putting the rails on things, and she was present with all of this, we froze her credit at all three credit bureaus.
First, she had two credit cards. Then when we dug into it, we found she had four.
Well, no, she had eight. And they were all full of fraudulent charges.
Here's how it all distills down.

She's a 73-year-old woman, and she's an adult. And if she's got early-onset dementia or she's got some sort of mental health challenges or cognitive decline challenges and you all have to step in to help, then part of stepping in to is just knowing that no adult likes that kind of help.
And there's just going to be some pushback, very similar to when you're parenting a young child, you're doing the right thing and it just comes with blowback. But does she, can I ask, does she have that Kelly or is she just, but it sounds like y'all came in and said, if you're going to live in my house, then here's the rules.
And really not liking that well she's she has been without a debit or credit card for coming up on a year now so do y'all give her an allowance she we're in a small enough community that the vast majority of places that she shops at still take a personal check okay so she's still able to get all of her groceries, car service. So my thing, Kelly, is I don't want you guys to have this level of parenting over a 73-year-old who mentally is stable.
She doesn't want your help. She's fallen for scams, but it's not because of John's point that she has some mental decline.
She's a 73-year-old who doesn't make wise decisions, and there's only to a point that you guys can control that Kelly, you know, like there, there's something to be said about letting her have to experience right to a degree of pain. I don't know if you can control your, the mother-in-law for so long.
Well, and if y'all at the end of the day, it sounds like she's going to be with you regardless. And so I think sitting down and having that direct conversation, do you want to take your money back?

But you're going to be living with us.

You're going to be living under our rules because you don't have a budget and you keep falling for these scams or we're going to continue to love you.

And it's going to be frustrating, but we can get through this together.

Thanks for the call.

I know that's a mess.

Hey, everybody, head over to the Ramsey Network app.

If you're watching this on YouTube or podcast, the show's about to end.

If you are listening to it on radio, just keep plugging in.

Go to Ramsey Network app.