Don't Let Other People Sway Your Money Decisions

Speaker 1 What up? What's going on, America? This is the Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney, joined by my great friend, number one best-selling author, Rachel Cruz.

Speaker 1 And we're talking about your wealth, and we're talking about relationships, talking about work that you love, we're talking about everything.

Speaker 1 And today's a big day. It's the first day of a long weekend retreat here we have at Ramsey called Money and Marriage.
And the studio is awdie. This is awesome.
It's good to see everybody.

Speaker 2 So fun. And I think we have a total of 800 couples coming this weekend?

Speaker 1 I don't remember. There's a bajillion people here.
Yeah, so it'll be. Sold out a year ago, and I'm excited about it.
And you and I have been off the road for a while,

Speaker 1 except doing private stuff. And so I'm excited to be back on stage and having a good time.

Speaker 2 It's gonna be so fun.

Speaker 1 Dude, I'm so, so excited. And, okay, let's go out to Fayetteville, North Carolina, and and talk to Mara.
Hey, what's up, Mara?

Speaker 3 Hi.

Speaker 1 How are we doing?

Speaker 3 How are you guys doing?

Speaker 1 We're doing great. We're running a scam.
It's called the Podcast YouTube Show. It's amazing.
You should get this job. It's awesome.
What's up?

Speaker 3 I was calling to get some advice on my financial situation.

Speaker 3 So basically, I'm going to try to keep it short. I'm an over-the-road truck driver.
I'm an owner operator.

Speaker 3 When I got into trucking as an owner, you know, back in like 21, everything was good as far as far as that was concerned. I was just living,

Speaker 3 just living and spending and not living on a budget and just the money was kind of just rolling in and everything was great. I thought I was doing good.

Speaker 3 And then things shifted. I got, I had to have like three surgeries in a little over a year and that had me taking time off work and blowing through my savings.
And when I

Speaker 3 did the very, what I'm finding is a very popular thing of thinking, oh, if I pay off all my credit cards in the same month, that's a good thing.

Speaker 3 So that

Speaker 3 quickly went into me not being able to pay off the balances and, you know, accumulating more credit card debt and things like that. So anyway, so

Speaker 3 I got into a really tough spot. I used to work at a bankruptcy law firm and

Speaker 3 I reached out to the girls that I know that still work there and they were telling me that yes, they looked at my situation. They were like, yeah, you can absolutely file.

Speaker 3 But they're requiring, I guess a trustee is requiring that anybody with

Speaker 3 a car note over, I think he said $600 or $700, they were going to require you to surrender your car. They wouldn't let you keep it if it's higher than that number.

Speaker 1 So hold up.

Speaker 1 Why are you thinking about declaring bankruptcy? How bad is it?

Speaker 3 Well, because I was overwhelmed and I thought I couldn't get out of this hole, but that's the funny thing. Well, it's not funny, but that's the thing.

Speaker 3 You guys just started showing up on my Facebook feed. I never even searched you, but somehow, here you guys come.

Speaker 1 We're a cult, dude. We'll find you.
We'll find you.

Speaker 2 Jesus will, or Jesus will.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 we've got Kool-Aid that we pass out to the end.

Speaker 2 Samara, real quick, so we can help you because we got a few minutes.

Speaker 2 Okay, what? What? Give me, give me a list of your debts because now you're thinking, oh gosh, the only way I can get out of this is bankruptcy, but now you're thinking maybe you can

Speaker 3 medical bills, like 50 grand. Okay.

Speaker 3 Credit card, 15,000.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 3 No mortgage. And

Speaker 3 then the car, I owe like $36 on the car. Okay.

Speaker 2 And that's it.

Speaker 3 And then my, and because I've seen the show, my like take-home income is like $60,000.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 And trucking slowed way, way, way down, right?

Speaker 3 Very, very much. Yes.
And I, I, um,

Speaker 3 yeah, I made the mistake of living how, like, adjusting my life for how it was then instead of thinking how it could be.

Speaker 1 It's all good. We're going to, you found us on the internets and we're going to change it, bro.

Speaker 2 So you have no savings. You blew through your savings just to keep in smade.
Is that right? Pretty much.

Speaker 2 Are you behind on anything right now?

Speaker 3 Yeah, like I had got to a place where I just stopped. I was like, I'm going to just file bankruptcy.

Speaker 1 Okay, how

Speaker 2 has it gone into collections, the credit cards?

Speaker 2 Some of them, yeah. Okay, how many credit cards is the 15,000?

Speaker 3 Let's just say maybe eight.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 And some of them have gone into collections, not all.

Speaker 2 How's the medical debt? What's the status on that?

Speaker 3 They have me like on a payment arrangement.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 Are you current on that or are you behind on that one?

Speaker 3 No, I'm current on the medical bill.

Speaker 2 Okay. And then last question, for your car, you owe 36.
Do you know how much it's worth? Have you Kelly Blue booked it?

Speaker 3 Yeah, my Kelly Blue Book said it's between 25 and 29, just depending on how you sell it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

Speaker 2 All right, perfect. Okay, so I mean, I would first thing is get rid of the car, it's too much car for your income.
Um, and so you can't, yeah, you can't afford this car.

Speaker 2 Bankruptcy, I would not, I would take off the table for sure, Mara. You're not even close.

Speaker 2 So, I would, um, you'll probably have to take a loan for the difference and add a add a couple thousand more on that loan so you can get just a beater car for like five grand, four grand to get you around.

Speaker 2 And that'll help and do a private sale because hopefully, maybe you can even get 30 out of it, right? So, maybe you're looking at like a 10 grand car note or 10 grand loan versus a 36

Speaker 2 and then these credit cards i would call each of the collection uh the ones that are in collections and i would talk to them and be and be honest with about your situation just say hey i don't have a ton but i'm working extra i'm trying to get x amount and as you do your own math about you're probably getting an extra you're going to get an extra job uh to help get some of this cleared up tell them like hey i think i can get you you know if one of the cards has three grand on it just say i can get you $1,728 by this date.

Speaker 2 Like, try to get like a very specific number to them. Cause, I mean, some of them will settle for,

Speaker 2 you know, pennies on the dollar, some of these, and get that in writing. But I would work that credit, I would work that $15,000 down if you can, just through negotiations, get rid of the car.

Speaker 2 And then that 50 grand that's left, that's going to be the mountain to climb. But I would stay current on it.
But again, you're making 60 right now.

Speaker 2 And I, I mean, I would try to, man, I try to make 2,000 extra a month. I mean, I would, I would do, um, are you on the road a lot with trucking, though? What's that? What's your lifestyle situation?

Speaker 3 Yeah, like, I'm literally on the road right now. I have to pull over.

Speaker 1 Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Are you, are you over the road? Are you

Speaker 1 in town?

Speaker 3 No, I'm over the road. Like, I'm doing a load to Michigan right now from North Carolina.

Speaker 1 And when you get back, do you turn around and flip it and head out again, or do you have some downtime?

Speaker 3 Well, that's what I'm an owner-operator, so I can do how I want to do it. You can do everyone.

Speaker 1 Okay. So

Speaker 1 I heard you mention this a few times. Rachel laid out a plan.
We're not doing bankruptcy here. Okay.
We're not trying to hack our way through this, but you're going to have to change the way you live.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And you're going to have to change the way you see the world.
And right now, you're going to have two years of this sucks.

Speaker 1 Okay. Okay.
If you'll commit right now, how old are you?

Speaker 3 I'm 39. All right.

Speaker 1 I want you to write a letter today to 41-year-old you

Speaker 1 Oh, okay. And tell 41-year-old you

Speaker 1 what you decided to do today

Speaker 1 as a 39-year-old so that 41-year-old you could breathe.

Speaker 1 Okay. Okay.
And I'm going to give you

Speaker 1 Financial Peace University. I'm going to give you all the classes for free.
I'm going to give you every dollar app for a year so you can start tracking every freaking penny.

Speaker 1 And this is going to be, listen, it's going to be how you spend money on the road. It's going to be how you take an extra job.
You're going to work when you're tired.

Speaker 1 You're going to go and you're going to go. You're going to go.
You're going to go. Okay.
And

Speaker 1 you're going to pretend these stupid credit cards don't exist because they do. You're going to call the companies like Rachel said, and you're going to stare down this dragon piece by piece by piece.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Is that cool?

Speaker 1 I got it.

Speaker 3 You guys answered my question.

Speaker 2 You can do it, Mara. It's going to be hard.
I mean,

Speaker 2 this is a totally, you know, from a 39-year-old shifting the way you viewed and handle money, and it's not going to be fun, Mara.

Speaker 2 We always say you can wander your way into debt, but you cannot wander your way out. So it's going to be an intense, probably two years.

Speaker 2 Oh, but on the other side of this, I'm like, it's going to be, it's going to be so hopeful for you.

Speaker 1 So you're going to be 41, whether you want to or not. The question is, do you want to be 41 and not owe anybody anything? Or do you want to be 41 and still chasing ghosts? This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 We'll be right back.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney joined by Rachel Cruz on our money and marriage weekend.
Let's go out to New Orleans, Louisiana, and talk to Carrie. What's up, Carrie?

Speaker 1 How How are we doing?

Speaker 3 Hello, excuse me. I'm a little nervous.

Speaker 1 Hey, I'm nervous too. I'm not very good at this, so we'll just be nervous together.
What's up?

Speaker 3 So, let me tell you what's going on. My mother, who's 80 years old, she lost her husband three years ago, which is my stepdad, and they were not ever in a financial great place.

Speaker 3 He tried to get on disability a few times and never wanted to hold down a job. And my mom worked underneath the table a lot.
And she

Speaker 3 took care of elderly people. Well, he passed away, left her nothing, and their house is

Speaker 3 reverse mortgage, which is the worst. So

Speaker 3 fast forward, my sister moves in with her and pays it for all the utilities and everything, her and her husband, and they move down where my mom was to be close to their grandkids.

Speaker 3 So now her husband found a job far away in South Carolina, and now my mom is left with all the utilities and stuff again.

Speaker 3 And originally when my stepdad passed away, she was going to move in with my sister in San Antonio, my brother close to her, or she can even move in with me.

Speaker 3 I'm moving closer to her in about five months. So this was always an option.
This is what she was going to do because we knew she couldn't afford the house.

Speaker 3 A few weeks ago, I had both of my sisters on FaceTime and they asked me if I was able to pitch in for my mom to live in her home because she really didn't want to leave her house.

Speaker 3 Me and my husband have been on your baby steps. We stopped investing.
We paid off our credit card. We will pay off his car in April and then his student loans.
We are so focused.

Speaker 3 We don't go out to eat and we are so excited about it. And then we got this call.

Speaker 3 So I deliberated with my husband. He's like, Carrie, it's a reverse mortgage.

Speaker 3 Why would we throw in money into it when your mom has options and this was the plan anyway because she cannot make it by herself? My mom is 80. She's in great shape.
She works out twice a day.

Speaker 3 She's on no meds. She will live probably a long life.

Speaker 3 However, you know, when I went back with my sisters with the reverse mortgage and and throwing money away, they were like, okay, well, what if you do it for five or six months?

Speaker 3 Like, and my husband was still like, we can do whatever you want, Carrie, but, you know, I don't think it's a good idea. She has ways of, you know, being living, but just not in her home.

Speaker 3 The home is falling apart. So I feel bad because I'm the daughter that said no, and now I feel a rift.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 The rift is a little bit more.

Speaker 3 And my brother, who's 60, and my brother who's 60, didn't get asked to pay some of the money every month because he is not great himself, but he does have a home that's paid for that he could, that he was inherited, that she can stay in, but it's just small.

Speaker 3 So, of course, he's never a part of the equation because he's never had the money to help.

Speaker 3 So, I said no. And

Speaker 1 you're not money.

Speaker 1 You're having your heart broken is real, okay?

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 1 And trying to search about this fault, and this person should have, and I can't believe that it.

Speaker 1 All of that is a distraction from just how much it hurts to find your mom in this situation, to find you and your husband in your own personal situation, the fact that your sisters are trying to clamor and change the plan to last me.

Speaker 1 All this is just ugh.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 you got permission to feel bad. My rule of thumb in these situations is always, always, always choose guilt over resentment every time.

Speaker 1 If you start paying money.

Speaker 1 Against the plan you'll already have established. And like I said, if it was five months and it was going to clear my mom and my mom was going to be okay, I'd be all in.

Speaker 1 If it's five months and we're having this conversation again in five months and again in five months, then I'm making the problem worse long term.

Speaker 3 Right, and there's no guarantee there. I don't know what happens in three or five months.

Speaker 1 Well, none of us do, but I'm less worried about that.

Speaker 1 Here's the deal. If you pay this money, every time your sister calls you and you see her name come up on your phone, you're going to get pissed.

Speaker 1 Every time your mom texts you, you're going to get mad and they don't deserve that. And that would be because you didn't hold your boundary, not because they exist.
That's resentment.

Speaker 1 That's not fair to them.

Speaker 3 And my mom would never, she doesn't even bring it up. She's never asked me for anything.
She's not that type. She's letting my sisters do it.

Speaker 1 She's very sweet, gentle lady. Yeah, but she's, it sounds like she's also even worse.
She's parenting from the one-down position. That's the nerd word in counseling where

Speaker 1 there's the one-up position, which is when you beat your chest like dads do, and they're like, hey, it's in my house. There's that.
But then there's the one-down, which is like, oh, okay.

Speaker 1 I guess I just won't eat.

Speaker 1 There's some pine cones in the backyard. I'll just eat those.
And it's like, all right, mom, where do you want to eat? Right. It's that.

Speaker 2 Or even worse. I mean, she is sweet and kind, and the sisters are feeling they have to, either she's not doing anything in the situation.
So the sisters are like, we have to be the parents in it.

Speaker 1 She's like, I don't want to call. I don't want to call Carrie.
Can y'all just, can you just call her for me? And so anyway, you set your boundary.

Speaker 3 Right. And I have to stick with my husband and our plan.
Like, this is my house. I have, you know, two kids, and we're never going out.
We're just trying to be hone in on our

Speaker 2 drowning. So like that, like there is a, there is a, a realness and reality to making sure that your household is taken care of, right?

Speaker 1 I mean, if we're, yeah, if right, if this was all reversed and you had

Speaker 2 $3 million in the bank and you're like, golly, should we help mom out? You know what I mean? Like, yes, help your mom out. We're a totally different, like,

Speaker 2 you have consumer debt. You guys are shifting the way that you're doing it.
You're making progress within your own family

Speaker 2 to be able then then to help people. But right now, it doesn't make sense.
Do you have it? Carrie, do you have numbers on the house situation? I'm just curious.

Speaker 3 Well, it's only

Speaker 3 going to be $3.50 a piece from each one of us.

Speaker 2 Well, I mean, like her, like the more. I'm asking, like, the more.

Speaker 3 No, but see, there is no mortgage because it's a reverse mortgage.

Speaker 1 So how much did she take out?

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 3 It's her insurance and her utilities and so forth and so forth. And my mom has little bitty credit card bills that I told her she needs to get out of like JCP, like small, small things.

Speaker 2 I'm like, Yeah, but with the reverse mortgage, she took money out on the equity.

Speaker 3 Like, do you know, like, when they, when they applied for an adult, because my step, no, because my stepfather took care of all that, and my mom is just one of them people who just signs the papers because she just goes along with it, you know?

Speaker 2 Because something is probably owed at some level of all of this.

Speaker 1 Oh, oh, for sure. Sorry.

Speaker 3 Because if she leaves the house, she's going to have to just leave the house and let them get it back.

Speaker 1 That's right. It's going to be their house.
She's already signed it away. Yes.

Speaker 3 Right. She's already signed it away.
It's been done.

Speaker 1 And the house is falling apart. Well, listen.
Literally. Carrie, it's heartbreaking when you and your husband turn a corner and y'all start making plans.
Yes.

Speaker 1 And someone in your family's hurting and they don't care about what you think. Yeah.
They just want your money.

Speaker 3 They just want your time.

Speaker 3 Like my sister's been feeling sorry for my mom.

Speaker 1 I want her to be able to do that. The sister's coming in and rescuing.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And they see my husband graduated from college. He just got his master's and he's getting a promotion and they see us doing well.

Speaker 3 And they think because my husband makes a certain amount and we're doing well that they I think they think okay well they got it well we blew money for the longest and we're just now getting our stuff together and now we're honing in and

Speaker 1 you don't owe anyone an explanation period you're right you don't the person I think you're wrestling with is you

Speaker 1 yes and if you've drawn a line that you don't believe in

Speaker 1 listen if you drew a line that you don't believe in address that

Speaker 1 But if you believe in this,

Speaker 1 it's okay to feel guilty. It's okay to feel upset.
It's okay for it to all be hard.

Speaker 1 I get that but you don't owe anybody an explanation a simple hey guys we're not in a place to do it right now we just aren't we're digging out of a huge hole end of story conversation is over yes and they get to choose

Speaker 3 she was mad at me and she was like well I have some resentment but you know I'm not gonna go backwards and I haven't heard from other sisters I know but Carrie she's been mad at you your whole life right True that yes

Speaker 1 she's been mad at you forever this isn't any different she's been mad at you since you took her Michael Jackson record when you were kids or whatever I don't know yeah like that's just who she is.

Speaker 1 Yes. So you can't live your life trying to make her happy.
You know why? Because that finish line will always move.

Speaker 1 You're right. Your mom has never asked for your financial help.
She's never going to be able to do that. Yeah.
Right? She's just going to be there with that. I'm not going to ask.

Speaker 3 Do I? And my mom will love me unconditionally.

Speaker 2 You know, Carrie, if your mom, does she have any money? Like, is she really truly surviving?

Speaker 3 Absolutely, truly from paycheck to paycheck. Yes.

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 1 paycheck to paycheck.

Speaker 2 Yes. But does she have money? Like, she's not working.

Speaker 3 No, she's not working.

Speaker 2 Did her husband leave?

Speaker 3 She's getting some Social Security. He has it.
He was absolutely, he just drained her down even more.

Speaker 1 It was a very good thing.

Speaker 2 Okay, so she, so the only income she's getting apart from family is Social Security. Is that correct?

Speaker 1 That's it.

Speaker 2 He didn't leave a life insurance policy or anything.

Speaker 1 Okay. And do you know?

Speaker 2 And I'm curious, do you know the numbers of what the Social Security check is and what she needs to live off of?

Speaker 3 I literally think it's like she makes like $13 or $1,400 a month.

Speaker 2 Okay. And I would be curious her bills.
And I wonder too, Carrie, if some of this, I I don't know if this would be helpful. Maybe this is how I kind of function.

Speaker 2 It's like a lot of the details aren't there, knowing exactly what she is getting in, what bills actually need to be paid, how much are the exact amounts.

Speaker 2 Some of that may help you in all of this because you could get through it, Carrie, and think, like, oh, it's $50.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it really is not as big of a deal as my sisters are even making it out to be, right? So I think the drama is there because of the family dynamics, too.

Speaker 2 So I would get some hard numbers just for your own peace of mind, if that helps at all.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney, joined by Rachel Cruz.
Today's question of the day is brought to you by YReFi.

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Speaker 2 Today's question comes from Toby in Wisconsin. He said, I have a question about tough conversations.

Speaker 2 I'm about to propose, and I would like to be sure that we have covered all the tough money conversations when it comes to money.

Speaker 2 What are some topics to make sure I should cover or good questions to ask?

Speaker 1 Well, I would just say right off the bat,

Speaker 1 you're not going to cover all of anything before you're married no i thought i had it all figured out and we went to premarital counseling we're like chick done did it and now we're ready and then it's like want

Speaker 1 i'm a quarter century in and my wife said something the other day and i looked at her and just got quiet and i said who are you like i don't know you right um but but great question yes and i love the optimism that you're gonna get all the questions done before you get married okay so on the money on the money side going tactical and this is for all of you listening and watching that maybe you're in a similar situation.

Speaker 2 When you're going into, especially a marriage, knowing all the money information that you can ahead of time is like required, right? So

Speaker 2 how much you make,

Speaker 2 how much your future fiancé makes, debt level,

Speaker 2 investments, if there are other accounts, credit card retirement, I mean, anything that's out there money-wise, it should be

Speaker 2 free reign to be able to talk and know everything. Because when you get married, ideally, it all comes together as one, right? So

Speaker 2 that's on the more tactical numbers side, knowing just that basic information, which a lot of couples don't.

Speaker 1 Run a credit report because the number of times people call and they're like, he didn't know he had this other $30,000 in student loans or whatever.

Speaker 1 Make you run a credit report and compare them. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That gets everything

Speaker 1 on the table.

Speaker 2 Yes. And then there's more of the emotional kind of bigger questions, right? The value system conversation.
We get a question a lot of, you know, should I I marry someone that has debt?

Speaker 2 And I'm like, yes,

Speaker 2 you know, yes, as long as you both are in agreement on how you want to live life with money, right? So it's not if they have debt or not.

Speaker 2 It's, hey, do you guys want to be on the same page when it comes to the subject of debts? Talk about that. I would talk about,

Speaker 2 I would talk about goals in life. You know, what are things that you want to do? You know, one of them may be.
You want to travel the world.

Speaker 2 The other one, he wants to own a home in the next four years or whatever it is, right?

Speaker 2 So some of these more goal-oriented questions, just talk about that, which hopefully those kind of things are in the middle of other conversations that you're having about life because that's, that is money, right?

Speaker 2 Money is a tool in life that you use to do the things that you want to do. So hopefully you guys know most of that going in of kind of what you want your life to look like.

Speaker 1 And I think underneath those things or right next to them, I think creating a rhythm that you don't have one conversation and forget it. Right.

Speaker 1 So I think the, I'm always talking to parents, like, you don't have a sex conversation.

Speaker 1 It's an ethos in your house where your kids know they can ask you any question, anytime, and their bodies aren't. It's kind of like that.
Yes. You won't have a money conversation.

Speaker 1 Let this begin setting up a rhythm where maybe when you're engaged once a month, you're like, hey, let's talk about

Speaker 1 our month, our week, right? And then you get married. You want to do that every two weeks or every week.
So let's start a rhythm where we're

Speaker 1 constantly coming back to the table to have this conversation and

Speaker 1 commit to being very open-handed. And what I mean by that is this.

Speaker 1 My wife knew when we got married, I always wanted to end up in the woods. I want to buy a place in the woods where nobody can see us so that when the world catches fire, we're going to be okay.
See?

Speaker 1 Right. That's prepper.

Speaker 2 That's where John and I kind of, yeah, we know. We know what's going to happen.

Speaker 1 But here's the thing.

Speaker 1 After four years of being in the woods, my wife was like, ugh, she wanted this,

Speaker 1 she wanted sell signal, right? And she wanted it to take less than an hour to get to the grocery store. Sheila, unbelievable.
It's ridiculous, right?

Speaker 1 And I wanted water all the time, not just when it rained, right? And so

Speaker 1 we recently,

Speaker 1 we kept our place, but we moved to the city where we lived, right? I'd aggrieve that.

Speaker 1 But had it been locked down,

Speaker 1 it would have been a fight. But we are very open-handed about, I really want this.
I'm going to try this. I'm going to experiment with this.

Speaker 1 And if it doesn't work out, it's okay in our house to say we changed our mind. Right? Yes.
This is a fun experiment that I think all all engaged couples should do.

Speaker 1 I call it the Friends Experiment. There were some old articles about the show Friends.
Yeah. When they actually went through and said, okay, this apartment in Manhattan would cost this, this couch.

Speaker 2 They went and ran the non-Monica technically got it from her grandmother, so it was under like rent control.

Speaker 1 There's reasons, but they had reasons. Yeah, but then Rachel would go work retail, right?

Speaker 2 And then they'd go to a coffee shop at 2 p.m.

Speaker 1 They'd all hang out. They're all hanging up.
So here's the thing. I think it'd be fun to get on a Pinterest board.

Speaker 1 And if if you're like me and you don't know what that is, just ask the person you're going to marry.

Speaker 1 Create a fantasy. Like if we could have any house anywhere, and then actually run what that actually costs in real life.

Speaker 1 And I think it'll be both depressing, but it will also level you back to reality.

Speaker 1 And then y'all can be happy with the world you have now and maybe have this thing out there you want to go chase one day. Yes.

Speaker 1 But it keeps everybody from being like, I thought we're going to be a Tahoe family. We're a Corolla family right now.
We might be a, you know, a used Tahoe family one day, but we're not there yet.

Speaker 1 And it helps level everything back. Yeah, that's good.

Speaker 2 And then I would also say, Toby, with the money specifically, since you asked about that, I think it can be so easy, especially if you're getting married later in life and you kind of have like your rhythm and the way you do money to feel like the way I do it is right.

Speaker 2 And if something is different than that, then that's wrong.

Speaker 2 And learning that, you know, when you get married, there is strengths and weaknesses your spouse brings to the relationship, right?

Speaker 2 And so we all have this ability when you get married to actually learn.

Speaker 2 So have the curiosity mindset too, because I would say if Toby's writing into the Ramsey show, Toby's probably the one that's hardcore with money, I'm going to say. So again,

Speaker 2 don't, you know,

Speaker 2 have your values, but just know, okay, if my, if my fiancé is different when it comes to money, that doesn't mean she's wrong. She actually can bring something to my life that's great.

Speaker 1 On my honeymoon, I looked over and it's not that kind of story, James. It's okay.
On my honeymoon, I looked over and my wife was brushing her teeth.

Speaker 1 And I said these exact words. Is that how you brush your teeth? Hey, you're doing that wrong.
Stop it. Oh, my God.
Because here's why. Here's why.
My wife is a part-time serial killer.

Speaker 1 She took her toothbrush and put toothpaste on it and then just jabbed it directly into her mouth.

Speaker 2 Oh, she didn't put water on it.

Speaker 1 She didn't put water on it like a person who loves Jesus and babies and puppies, right? And so I looked at her and I was like, hey, you're doing this wrong.

Speaker 1 And she said something along the lines of, oh, God, this is going to be along forever. Right?

Speaker 1 But here, it was like, okay, there's multiple ways to brush your teeth, right? And there's multiple ways to do things in life. And I think what you're saying is so, so perfect, Rachel.

Speaker 1 You have a way, and your spouse is going to have a way. And what matters is what y'all agree on moving forward.
Yeah. Hey, and all of this and more

Speaker 1 just turned into a pitch. I didn't even mean for it to, but here we are.
There is a money and marriage date night.

Speaker 1 It's next week, right? Next Tuesday. Yes, next Tuesday, there's a live event hosted by me and Rachel Cruz.

Speaker 2 Specific date is October 29th.

Speaker 1 29th. Yes, yes, yes.
If you're listening to this in any day, that's not right this second.

Speaker 1 We're going to be talking about real topics like goal setting, budgeting, working through every season of life as a team, your marriage. It is a live stream event.
So we have an entire

Speaker 1 second floor here full of people who are here for an in-person retreat this weekend. This will be a money marriage event that you can have in the comfort of your own house.

Speaker 1 There's also going to be a live QA, and Rachel and I will answer your questions. October 29th, get your tickets at ramseysolutions.com/slash/slash events.

Speaker 1 The total is $49, and you can click the link in the description if you're listening to this on the YouTube store.

Speaker 2 And this podcast. This is a great option for all of you listening.
That again, you're not here in Nashville. We have another Money in Marriage in February.

Speaker 2 Yeah, weekend, the Valentine's weekend in February that we're going to do this same type of event.

Speaker 2 But if you are, you know, early on in the baby steps, if you guys don't have the ability to get away for two or three nights to Nashville, like this is the next best thing because John and I, as we've set up content and stuff for this event, want to set you, you guys up as a couple when you watch this to continue these conversations, right?

Speaker 2 So even a one-night event can be the starting point of like, hey, we want to work towards something better when it comes to our money and our marriage. So make sure to check it out, you guys, again.

Speaker 2 October 29th, a live event via the internet. John and myself, tickets are $49.
Go to ramseysolutions.com/slash events and hang out with us next Tuesday night.

Speaker 1 And as always, we'll give you some questions to ask each other and we will commit to making it weird for everybody. This is the Ramsey Show.
We'll be right back.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney, joined by Rachel Cruz.

Speaker 1 Let's go out to Edmonton and talk to Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, where they play hockey instead of the footballs and talk to Nick. What's up, Nick?

Speaker 1 Hey, Nick.

Speaker 1 How's it going? Hey, what's up, man?

Speaker 3 Not too much. I just don't know what to do in this situation.

Speaker 3 I'm 18 years old. I'm 30, 19 in February.
I have a $5,000 car payment, and I work at a light-duty mechanic shop. My mom and dad don't want me to live with them anymore.

Speaker 3 They'd like me to kind of move out of the nest. So I was just wondering, like, would it be worth putting a down payment on a home and just renting out bedrooms while living in it?

Speaker 3 Or should I get like a rental area and rent with a friend or something? I just don't want to, I don't want to screw myself over in the future with loans and stuff.

Speaker 1 I know I had to pay for my schooling. When you said a $5,000 car loan, do you owe $5,000 on the note? Are you paying $5,000 a month? Surely you're not.

Speaker 3 It's $224 every month that I'm paying.

Speaker 1 But the total is $5,000? I took the loan. Pardon me? The total is $5,000?

Speaker 3 Yeah, that's what I have left to pay. I had it out for $15,000 and I paid $10,000 down within an entire year.
Okay.

Speaker 2 Good for you, Nick. How much do you make a year? How much are you making working?

Speaker 3 That's the struggle. I don't know because, well, I've only been at the shop for three months and I just passed my probation and also I get a flat rate.
So I don't get paid per hour.

Speaker 3 I get paid per job. So I could have an oil change.
It takes 20 minutes, so I only get paid for 20. But if it takes me 30, I'm not getting paid for the other 10.

Speaker 3 So it kind of depends on how fast I am and how efficient I am at my job.

Speaker 2 Okay, so the last month, what did you make? What did you bring home last month?

Speaker 3 Just over two grand. I think it was $2,200.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 And do you see that being consistent month over month? Or do you think now

Speaker 2 since you've passed the probation period, all of that, do you foresee it going up

Speaker 2 another good amount?

Speaker 3 It should go up, I'm hoping for sure.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Because I know they're going to raise it up. But I don't really know how Flat Rate works too much.
I'm kind of just learning how to do it still.

Speaker 3 I don't want to move out. I'd like to live at home and like save up my money.

Speaker 1 Yeah, why are they kicking you out?

Speaker 2 Yeah, what's the conversation with your parents like?

Speaker 3 Well, they're not like fully kicking you out, but they're kind of just mentioning it that I should probably think about leaving sooner or later.

Speaker 1 That's kicking you out, bro. They're kicking you out.

Speaker 1 They're just doing it. They're doing it slow and kind, but they're kicking you out.
How come? They just want their house back? They want you to fly. It's time for you to get out of the nest.

Speaker 1 Are you drinking too much? Why do they want you out of there?

Speaker 3 I don't have any habits. I don't spend my money.
I just kind of save it up. I don't drink.
I don't do drugs. I don't do any of that.

Speaker 3 I think they're just kind of wanting me to be on my own, probably for

Speaker 1 I don't know. I don't know.
No, it's great.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm one. My 14-year-old rolls his eyes at me too, man.
This is kind of part of it.

Speaker 2 So, what I would do, Nick, is I would first sit down and kind of get a timeline of what their expectations are and what's reality for you, right?

Speaker 2 You've turned 18, you have a job, you're not making a lot.

Speaker 2 I mean, it'll come out to like 20 grand um you know a year at your current rate after taxes and stuff so you're not making a lot to sustain a lifestyle so um i would be curious for them like it's what we're october just to say hey mom and dad i want to have more of a clear conversation with you on your expectations because i want to be respectful i'm an adult now and i understand you know i'm 18 and i can move out but i want to know what you all are thinking because that'll at least give you a timeline if they're like because if it's this weird period of like oh no nick as long as it's next summer summer or something, then you're like, okay, we kind of have a date.

Speaker 2 So I would get a date with your parents of like, here is when they want you to move out. And then, I mean, that's, I mean, they get to set it.
I guess it's their house.

Speaker 2 But what you're going to have to realize, Nick, is that, yeah, you're going to probably have to up this income.

Speaker 2 So whether it's that you're making more in the job that you currently have or maybe getting a second job after, because I do not want you buying a house.

Speaker 2 But renting is obviously the best option after moving out.

Speaker 2 And if you can get friends, yeah, and get a rental house and get a couple of bedrooms filled, and you guys can like split the rent, you know, three or four different ways.

Speaker 2 That's ideal just to lower that expense. But I mean, as of now, that you're not making a ton to live on your own.
So, I mean, I would have that conversation with them too.

Speaker 1 Part of turning 18, man, is not the most fun, but you need to also have this direct conversation with your employer, too.

Speaker 1 And there's a mindset shift that happens

Speaker 1 when you're 17 and you get hired on and they put you on probation and you get to work. The whole thing is set up as you should count your lucky stars that they picked you.

Speaker 1 But I want you to flip that around now. If you've been pulling your weight and doing good work and you're certified now,

Speaker 1 you're 18 years old, you come to the table and say, I'm happy to be here. I need some structure.
Meaning, I need to know how much money I'm going to make.

Speaker 1 I need to know what the comp schedule is, what the comp plan is.

Speaker 1 If it's just me working 20 minutes by 20 minutes and I don't have any input on marketing, it's not like even like a barber who does a great job and they get to bring clients back.

Speaker 1 It's just you're wholly dependent. I'm not going to live that life.
That's a tough life to live, 20 minutes by 20 minutes,

Speaker 1 depending on what car just rolls into the, into the, into the garage, right? And so they should, you should sit down and say, hey, I've passed my stuff.

Speaker 1 I want to talk about what a long-term plan is because I want to be here and I appreciate the risk you took on me. I just need some guarantee on what this thing's going to look like.

Speaker 1 And then you have to make a big boy, grown-up, grown-man decision now. Do I want to stay here? But Rachel's point, dude, 20 grand a year,

Speaker 1 you can't live in Canada with that kind of money. You can't live anywhere, right?

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And Rachel's right on. Sit down with your parents and say, hey, I'm getting the hints.
Is this, y'all want me out right now? Is this three months?

Speaker 1 Can I have six months to save up so that I can put a, you know, six months months down on a lease or something like that? But yeah, you're in 100%

Speaker 1 no place to buy a house yet, man. Not until you are way more subtle and you can put down 10, 15, 20% down on a home in cash.

Speaker 1 And that's after you've paid off your car, you don't owe anybody any money, and you got an emergency fund so that when the cars stop coming in the bay, you can still pay your bills every month.

Speaker 1 So you're just getting rolling, brother.

Speaker 1 But have those hard conversations with your parents and with your employer and be good to go there. And by the way, don't hate on your parents.

Speaker 1 They want to see you fly and that conversation is a hard one to have. And they're probably trying to soft play it and be nice.

Speaker 1 And if you don't have the direct conversation now, Rachel, there's going to come a day when they snap and they're like, you're out this weekend. And that will be too,

Speaker 1 it'll be, you know, too quick for you. It'll just be a mess.
So just take, be the, be the adult here and go sit down and say, let's, let's map out an exit strategy. I love that.
Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2 And, you know, to bring, I don't know, I think I would be impressed if my son came and was like, hey, can I know what the average, you know, light, like what you're paying for lights and water?

Speaker 2 Like even knowing what it takes to run a household

Speaker 2 and ask those questions and build out a mock budget and be like, okay, here's what I'm short a month.

Speaker 2 If I were to go rent somewhere and let's say I got three roommates, you know, rent on average, I'm looking around this with utilities, car payment, food, like this is probably what I need to live off of a month.

Speaker 2 Like you can kind of start making a plan and ask your parents those questions about what they pay, you know, for utilities and that kind of thing.

Speaker 2 I mean, I feel like that would be a very mature type planning. And I think they probably would appreciate it.
Maybe buy you an extra week or two to live at home.

Speaker 1 Well, and here's the thing. If, if I, if, let's say my son graduates and he just starts working at a local shop and

Speaker 1 all of a sudden at six months after high school graduation, he's not going to college and he's still home. He's just going to work every day and sitting on the dinner table.

Speaker 1 I'm more of a direct guy, right? So we would have more of a direct conversation. But if he came and sat down and said, hey, I've got a seven-month plan and here's how much I'm making.

Speaker 1 I want to to contribute 200 bucks, not a lot, but I want to contribute some to the water and electricity now.

Speaker 1 And I need seven months. And by seven months, I'll have this much money.

Speaker 1 Dude, I would be so proud of him.

Speaker 1 I would want to support him in every way possible and help him get launched out great. Yeah.

Speaker 2 In situations like this, you know, it's the lack of communication is where the messiness, I feel like, always, always comes into play.

Speaker 2 And to know that, you know, we are, we are more on this, or I'll say I am, I'm more on the side of fly and be free.

Speaker 2 Like, I think that, you know, we, we, you, you can stay somewhere and save money and mathematically, financially, that's really wise.

Speaker 2 But for you as a person, when you're being taken care of by mom and dad for too long

Speaker 2 into your 20s, you know what I mean? Like and all of that, like there's just something to be said about being on your own. There's a character thing there that happens.

Speaker 2 There's a, there's a grown, you know, you, you grow up faster when you do that. So I am more on that side.
But again, under the circumstances of there's seasons for different things.

Speaker 2 People go through different events at different times and parents can be there to help their grown children in different ways. But it's the communication.
That's right.

Speaker 2 That's always going to be the number one. So, Nick, I would tighten that up with your parents, and that'll give you more of security of knowing.

Speaker 1 And there's going to be a woman that drives in to get her oil changed, and she's going to say, Can I come pick you up? and be like, Yeah, from my mom's house.

Speaker 1 Like, you're going to want to get your own place. You're going to want to get your own place.
Hey, that's the first hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.

Speaker 1 We'll be back shortly, right here on the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Welcome, welcome. It's the Ramsey Show.
I'm John Deloney, joined by Rachel Cruz, and we are taking your calls live on your relationships, your money, building wealth, work that you love.

Speaker 1 Rachel, we've been doing this for how long? I say we. Dave's been doing this for 30 years.
The great and powerful Dave Ramsey and the rest of us have joined. Dave and the Dave Ets.
We have joined.

Speaker 1 We've said the last seven. Yeah, for a while.
Five, seven years. Taking your calls on everything going on in your life, your money, your relationships, your work, all of it.

Speaker 1 And we're taking your calls live. No net.

Speaker 1 Triple eight eight two five two two five it's triple eight eight two five five two two five and again i'm john deloney joined by rachel cruz call us from all over the planet let's go out to oklahoma city and talk to violet violet violet what's up oklahoma

Speaker 3 hi thanks for taking my call guys of course what's going on

Speaker 3 so um i just found Dave Ramsey and you guys about two weeks ago. I'm excited to get into it.

Speaker 3 But how do I even begin start working the babysits when my husband has a cognitive decline and will continue to decline with no cure tell me about it

Speaker 3 my husband has Huntington's disease

Speaker 3 so how far for people who don't know yeah he's stage two

Speaker 3 right now so we still can drive and I have guardianship over him right now we

Speaker 3 he's 55 actually he's late onset yeah I'm sorry

Speaker 3 So, yeah, for people who don't know, that's like having Alzheimer's, ALS, Parkinson's, and some doctors say schizophrenia as well.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's tough.

Speaker 2 I'm so sorry.

Speaker 1 So have you all set up? I'm assuming you've set up all the necessary power of attorneys and you've got the accounts in your name and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I have an account in my name. We didn't do power of attorney.
He was conserved when we lived in California, and then when I moved to Oklahoma,

Speaker 3 we just got guardianship. So I didn't know, should I be having power attorney as well as guardianship?

Speaker 1 I would sit down with an attorney yesterday

Speaker 1 and map it out.

Speaker 1 And the state planning attorney.

Speaker 1 And I think the thing that I hear catches most people off guard that I've sat with over the years is especially on any kind of stage and you got cancer, you've got this kind of challenge, you've got any sort of thing that is progressive.

Speaker 1 And they say it's progressive and maybe you got five years. Progressive, maybe you got 10 years.
Progressive, maybe you have 18 months. The challenge is one month, two months, three months goes by

Speaker 1 and it's easy to drop your shoulders and to settle in, okay, I've got 36 months left like this.

Speaker 1 And what's not taken to

Speaker 1 an account is there comes a moment when everything falls off a cliff.

Speaker 1 And if you don't have that stuff set up now,

Speaker 1 Trying to deal with it, when this thing starts sliding, right?

Speaker 1 When he's, when he needs in-home care, when he is unsafe, like these things as they progress, who knows, right, how it's going to unwind, right?

Speaker 1 And so getting these things in writing, I would sit with an attorney, an estate planning attorney, and map out everything, whether you need a,

Speaker 1 I don't even go through all the legal stuff right now, but sit down with an attorney today or tomorrow and get that stuff squared up.

Speaker 1 And you have to stare the sunshine in the face on this when it will feel surreal

Speaker 1 that you're having this conversation because this man's been a part of your life for a long time, right?

Speaker 3 Yeah, 13 years.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 What's the ongoing medical care, like money-wise? Are you guys, do you have good insurance or what is that looking like for you?

Speaker 3 Nope, nope. We were living in California below poverty level.
And I said, I don't want to live here anymore. We ought to go somewhere else.

Speaker 3 We sold everything we owned, packed up two cars with two kids, and moved to Oklahoma.

Speaker 1 How long ago was that?

Speaker 3 Yeah,

Speaker 3 it was stressful, but now I'm in a job where I'm making $40,000 a year. And so I can only go up from there.
He's not working right now. Sure.

Speaker 1 Has he filed for SSI?

Speaker 3 He actually doesn't qualify for SSI anymore because I make too much money. So we cut him off after a certain point.

Speaker 3 I've tried talking to him. Maybe we should do legal separation, but he doesn't want to do that, which I completely understand.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I would appeal and I would appeal and I would appeal and I would appeal again and again and again and again and your attorney can help you with that.

Speaker 3 Yeah, well,

Speaker 3 he has to have so much work credits and he just doesn't have them. So I have him set up right now.
He's going through a program here for he's seeking employment for disabled disabled adults.

Speaker 3 So that's going to help him and us as well.

Speaker 1 How old are your kids, Violet?

Speaker 3 12 and 9.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 Okay, so financially,

Speaker 2 real quick, because we have a couple of minutes with you, where are you guys at? So tell me, I know you're income,

Speaker 2 and then debt-wise, how much do you guys have in debt?

Speaker 3 Debt-wise, we're only $12,000.

Speaker 1 Okay. What's it?

Speaker 3 We don't own our cars. We don't,

Speaker 3 and that's just credit cards.

Speaker 2 Okay, okay. And you're using the credit cards to basically live above poverty line in California? Was it to sustain a level of living?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Okay. Are you guys in a place with your income and living in Oklahoma that you're able to

Speaker 2 Are you able to live paycheck to paycheck or are you dipping into the credit cards monthly to keep afloat?

Speaker 3 No, we're we're living paycheck to paycheck.

Speaker 3 We're making minimum payments on everything, so we're not behind on anything.

Speaker 3 But there's extra spending with somebody who, you know, he has to have this, this, and this.

Speaker 1 Oh, for sure.

Speaker 3 That money that can be going to

Speaker 3 this, you know,

Speaker 1 I need money for this.

Speaker 3 And I'm like, you really don't.

Speaker 3 So he's kind of excited. He's like, okay, I want to get out of debt.
So do I just keep doing, like, having the separate bank accounts?

Speaker 3 There's one with mine in his name and then one with his name so that I can funnel money in him when he needs it.

Speaker 1 Everybody's got to be above board on this.

Speaker 1 Is he able to be a co-manager of the money of the household right now?

Speaker 2 From his mental capacity state.

Speaker 3 Yes and no. I mean, he'll see something, oh, I want that.

Speaker 1 Okay, listen,

Speaker 1 the most important thing is that he has a safe place to live and that you and his kids are safe.

Speaker 1 And so if he has,

Speaker 1 golly, if he is unable to

Speaker 1 get a lot of money, yeah, I know, but it's a couple of expenses away if they'll share an account and he just

Speaker 1 has an impulse purchase, not blaming him, but he's not well. He makes an impulse purchase.
That's not his fault. Huh? Yes.
Right, right. It's not his fault.

Speaker 1 So at some point, you have to protect yourselves. And if he can hear that conversation, amazing.
If he can't, then maybe you put $25 in quote-unquote his account and you are managing on the side.

Speaker 3 Okay. That's what I'm wondering to do.
That's great. Yeah, I think that's great, Violet.

Speaker 1 I think that's great. I'm never about division.
We're always about sharing money, but this is a very special situation.

Speaker 2 If you've just come on to us, you know, the last two weeks and you've binged and looked up any videos about married couples.

Speaker 2 I mean, 99% of the time we say combine accounts, combine accounts, combine accounts. We have a whole marriage weekend.
We're going to talk about combined accounts, be on the same page.

Speaker 2 But there are reasons not to.

Speaker 2 And if there's addiction involved, if there is abuse, and in this case, Violet, I would say, you know, if the other scouts mentally cannot handle that, then for sure, I mean, there's common sense that plays into all of this, right?

Speaker 2 And so

Speaker 2 I think, yeah, for you to be the one that is really,

Speaker 2 it's, and I even hate to say that, but it's terrible, but the adult in the situation. That's right.

Speaker 2 Because sadly, with what, with what he has, it's going to continue. to progress the opposite way.
And so just to put you guys in a great position.

Speaker 2 If you hold on the line, Violet, Christian's going to pick up and we want to gift you Financial Peace University and every dollar for a year and also get signed up with a financial coach and have an hour session on me and John.

Speaker 2 We'll pay for it.

Speaker 2 But to sit down with actually someone to look over some of your numbers, because I also think that there's, from a medical standpoint, things I want to make sure are covered within the trust

Speaker 2 because there's some complications there. So we'll get you an hour with a financial coach to go over some of that.

Speaker 1 But we'll be thinking about your calls anytime, Violet. Yeah.
This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to to the Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney, joined by Rachel Cruz.
Let's go out to Albany, New York, and talk to Jessica. Hey, Jessica, what's going on?

Speaker 1 Hi. How's it going?

Speaker 3 So I'm calling because I have a whole life insurance policy that I've been holding on to since 2012.

Speaker 3 And now I'm thinking, hearing Dave, and you guys are hearing that whole is garbage and that I should switch the term.

Speaker 3 But I'm not sure about the tax implications and stuff like that I just don't really know what to do with a life insurance policy from here on out

Speaker 2 okay have you looked into what the payout will be when you if you dissolve it

Speaker 3 um so it says the cash value is eight grand okay

Speaker 1 and of your money back to you

Speaker 1 that drives me crazy yeah

Speaker 2 um and have you looked into term at all to make sure that you you I mean, you're are you healthy, Jessica? Like,

Speaker 2 you could probably get another insurance. Okay.

Speaker 3 I'm going to be thirty-nine.

Speaker 3 I'm thirty-nine now. I'm going to be forty next year, so I'm kind of like, do I hold on to it? I have two little ones.

Speaker 3 My husband's the primary beneficiary, but my oldest daughter is the

Speaker 3 contingent. And I'm like, do I hold on to this? I already called the company and asked them if I should you know, if I could switch it from whole to term.

Speaker 3 And of course they said, no, well, you you could cash it out and then get a term insurance policy with us.

Speaker 3 And I'm like, I don't know what the tax implications are or anything, or if it'd be worth it to do that, or if I should just hold on to, because it looks like it is, it's gotten

Speaker 3 like $1,500

Speaker 1 in the last year. Yeah, but it's your money.

Speaker 3 According to the statements, that's right.

Speaker 1 So the way

Speaker 1 that

Speaker 1 you get it back. You overpay them.
They invest that money. They take a piece of the investment return and then they call you and they're like, look what you have.

Speaker 2 And it's a crappy return, anyways. So, yeah.
So, no, I would cancel it regardless of what the whatever the fees and tax implication is. I don't know what taxes are when you cash it out.

Speaker 2 It may be income. It may be like a

Speaker 1 capital. It's $8,000.
It's not very much money.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So I would pay the taxes on it.

Speaker 3 I'm going to have $15 a month, so I've been ignoring it for all this time.

Speaker 3 I'm listening to you guys. I'm like, all right, I need to do something about this.

Speaker 2 Yeah, how much are you paying a month for it?

Speaker 3 $55.

Speaker 2 $55.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I'm a state worker. I make around $50 a year.
So

Speaker 3 people are really missing it, you know?

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, $55.
Okay, gotcha, gotcha.

Speaker 2 Okay, yeah.

Speaker 1 So what I would do is I don't want to be robbed slowly by the way. Yeah, and that's what

Speaker 2 totally. And that's what it ends up being when you're pairing an investment and insurance together.

Speaker 2 You're always going to get a crappy product, usually on both sides, but for sure on the investment side. So

Speaker 2 yeah, I would cancel it for sure today. But before, well, before you cancel it, I should say, make sure you have term in place because I do want you you to have life insurance.

Speaker 2 You guys have two little kids.

Speaker 2 So, I would still have life insurance. And so, you do work.
Is that what you said outside the home?

Speaker 2 Yeah. Okay.
So, I would get a policy 10 to 12 times your annual income. And that's about that's around the policy that you would need.
And I would go to Xander.

Speaker 2 You can go to Xander.com or give them a call, Xander Insurance. And they're great because

Speaker 2 they're an insurance broker. So they're going to shop all different companies to get you the best deal versus like this one you call, I don't know, State Farm, and it's just State Farm or whatever.

Speaker 2 You know, like you'll you'll be able to get all different kinds of quotes. And that, so that's what I would do.
And then I would go ahead and apply and get that coverage going first.

Speaker 2 And the day that goes into place, the term policy, then I would call Whole Life, cancel it, get your eight grand and move on.

Speaker 3 Gotcha. All right.
And then,

Speaker 3 okay, so you said 10 to 12 months.

Speaker 1 months are my 10 to 12 times insurance policy 10 to 12 times

Speaker 2 your annual income.

Speaker 1 That's right.

Speaker 1 If you make 50 grand, yeah, I would get a policy at a minimum of 500 grand, which should not cost you very much money a year.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 It won't be a huge cost. And by the way,

Speaker 1 this isn't just us pitching a product. When I was 40, maybe 40 or 41.
I understand. I did the exact thing you're doing.

Speaker 1 I called Xander and got my insurance moved over to them with term, and it's fantastic.

Speaker 3 Gotcha. Okay, awesome.
Yeah, I just want to say also, God bless you guys, and thank you for the work that you do.

Speaker 1 Oh, thank you so much.

Speaker 1 You're super kind. And yeah, like, Rachel, I hear that a lot on like, what's the taxes going to be? It's eight grand.
Let's pay the taxes and move on through life. For whatever it is, yeah.

Speaker 1 If you have eight million dollars, we'll start worrying about the tax implications. Totally.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Well, when you start looking at, you know, $55 a month, and it may feel like, oh, that's, you know, no big deal.

Speaker 2 But over time, what it adds up, and then what you end up paying for term is a fraction of that anyways. That's right.

Speaker 2 And always, again, the rule of thumb is your insurance and your investment should never be mixed

Speaker 2 because you're not going to get the rate of return that you could if you put it, you know, even in an index fund or Vanguard or the, or the market, right?

Speaker 2 Yeah, in any other place, you're going to get a better rate of return. And a lot of these, too, I'm like, they just, it's that slow leak, but they just continue just to like take and take.

Speaker 2 And if it goes up, it just goes up. And you know what I mean? There's, it doesn't feel,

Speaker 2 it, it doesn't feel clean whole life. There's, there's some entanglements there that there's mixed priorities there, right?

Speaker 1 Let's go out to Spokane, Washington, and talk to Elizabeth. Hey, Elizabeth, what's happening?

Speaker 3 Hi, guys. How are you?

Speaker 1 Awesome. We're running a scam called a YouTube show and a podcast.
What are you up to?

Speaker 3 I love it. I watch you guys all the time.

Speaker 1 Very cool. What's up?

Speaker 3 Not much. I was just hoping to get your guys' advice.

Speaker 3 We are pretty good,

Speaker 3 but we're not as good as we could be.

Speaker 3 I feel like we're still struggling month to month,

Speaker 3 kind of like paycheck to paycheck. And

Speaker 3 how do we get ahead? How do we start

Speaker 3 like invest saving? Like, we have three kids, I homeschool, there's we're a one-income household, um,

Speaker 3 and the economy is kind of killing us. Yeah,

Speaker 1 so here's here's the hard,

Speaker 1 the hard truth:

Speaker 1 you and me, and your spouse, and my wife, and Rachel, and Winston, all of us go home as a family and we make choices.

Speaker 1 And that's not how it was set up for us. We all grew up and they were like, dude, if you just go to college or just do this, then you can do this and this and this and this and this.

Speaker 1 And sometimes like the dream of

Speaker 1 we want mom to stay at home, awesome. We want to not get into the schools and we want to homeschool our kids.
Cool.

Speaker 1 But we can't eat. Or we're just floating month to month to month.
And it's you guys as a family having to back out of that situation and say, okay, the price of milk is bananas right now.

Speaker 1 The price of bananas is bananas right now. Right.

Speaker 3 And so it is. My two youngest are not school age.
So if I went back to work, we'd have to pay for daycare.

Speaker 1 Well, yeah. I don't think you say, I don't think you're saying go back to work.
I'm not saying you go back to work.

Speaker 1 Everybody makes choices.

Speaker 2 So, Elizabeth, I want to know

Speaker 2 financially, where are you guys at? Do you guys have consumer debt?

Speaker 3 No, we have credit cards. We don't use them.
They are zero balance.

Speaker 1 We own our cars and all our vehicles. How much does your husband make a year?

Speaker 3 About $65. Okay.

Speaker 2 And are you guys on a written plan, like a very detailed budget every single month that you know exactly here's the amount we have to spend? Okay.

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 1 Okay, so I think the budget is probably need to do that.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, no, no, it's fine. I mean, I think that's going to help a lot.

Speaker 2 And if you stay on the line after this call, Christian will pick up and we'll give you every dollar premium for a year because I think the budget, it's one of those places, Elizabeth, that once you do it and you actually have boundaries around certain categories in your life and you force yourself to live within them, then suddenly you're like, oh, there's our margin.

Speaker 2 There's our margin. It's not getting eaten up by that extra, you know, fast food run that we're going to go do or out to eat or whatever.

Speaker 2 Like it's, it is amazing when you do plan out and stick to that plan. It's going to take about three months for you guys to get it to work.

Speaker 2 So remember that 90 days, give yourself a lot of grace between now and Christmas. But I want that to be your homework to say, okay, we're going to, we're going to sit down and do this.
And then

Speaker 2 out of that and finding some margin, and you'll look back on your accounts and your checking account last month and be like, oh my gosh, we're paying for two subscriptions we never use.

Speaker 2 When you actually start getting in the weeds of it, it is amazing what comes to the surface.

Speaker 2 And even if it's 30, 40 bucks here or there, that, you know, that adds up. I mean, that will get you some margin.
And so do you guys have

Speaker 2 an emergency fund?

Speaker 1 Oh, I just, hold on one second. There you go.
Oh.

Speaker 2 Oh, it's fine. Okay.
So, Elizabeth, I would

Speaker 3 mess up the phone too there you go there you go there you go do you guys have an emergency fund elizabeth do you have any savings we do not have a specific emergency fund we've got a a

Speaker 2 decent amount in our checking account okay so what i would do is is open up a high yield savings and i would move three to six months of expenses out of your checking out to that and then that's not touched so that's your emergency fund if you have to have a few months to add to that savings to get that three to six months do it and then from there i would start investing 15 of your income into retirement and start that going.

Speaker 2 That can be through his 401k or Roth IRA. You guys can open up.

Speaker 1 Welcome, welcome, welcome back to the Ramsey Show. We have two amazing people staring at us on the debt-free stage.

Speaker 2 Jared and Caitlin, and Caitlin and I are twins.

Speaker 1 Did y'all call each other and plan? Look at this.

Speaker 2 The exact same jumpsuit.

Speaker 5 Marshalls?

Speaker 1 No, maybe. No, not.
Loft. $30.

Speaker 1 Rachel.

Speaker 1 Whoa, you just got out-purchased.

Speaker 1 Out-purchased, Rachel.

Speaker 2 Mine was probably 75%.

Speaker 1 Mine was $750. That was not.

Speaker 2 No, it was not. Okay.
We're here for you guys. Y'all, you're on the debt-free scream stage because

Speaker 2 we're debt-free. Congratulations.
Where are you guys from?

Speaker 4 Dripping Springs, Texas, about 30 minutes west of Austin.

Speaker 1 By Austin, I know where you're dripping Springs, 512. I know where that is.
It's beautiful.

Speaker 1 There you go.

Speaker 2 That's awesome. Okay,

Speaker 1 how much did you guys pay off?

Speaker 4 $158,244 in 34 months.

Speaker 2 Oh, my gosh. And 34 months.
Making what kind of money during that time?

Speaker 4 $120,000 to $170.

Speaker 2 Okay. Well done, you guys.
Okay, so what happened 34 months ago where you were like, okay, over two years ago, you said something's got to change. What happened?

Speaker 4 Well, we got married, and we were thinking that we have no business trying to, and this is a personal conviction for me, but no business trying to start a family taking care of our past when we can be investing in our children's future.

Speaker 4 And so that was a goal for us, and that was something that we love our parents and all the support we've had, but we wanted to,

Speaker 4 it's really big for me to make it one step better for my kids, make it a little bit easier for them. So we're going to start investing before they hit the ground.

Speaker 2 Okay, so you guys,

Speaker 2 were you just married around two years ago then?

Speaker 4 Yeah, we got married in April of 21.

Speaker 2 Okay, perfect. And then you were looking at this debt.
What was the 150? What kind of debt was it?

Speaker 4 Just two cars and some student loans.

Speaker 2 Okay, the student loans.

Speaker 1 Student loans. Hey, are you, Jared, are you from that area?

Speaker 4 Not originally. I'm from the Fresno, California region, originally.

Speaker 1 Are you really? Yes, sir. Because you have a swoon, a Texas swoon about you.

Speaker 5 I'm the Texan.

Speaker 1 But I mean, I'm just imagining being in your seat. And this tall drink of water comes in and sits down in his cowboy boots and he says, I want to invest in our children's future.

Speaker 1 I think I would have married him too

Speaker 2 met two-stepping yeah of course you know what of course she did yeah it's great golly man like I feel like I'm getting warm in here oh man okay so now that it's that it's paid off when you look back what what what all did you do that really helps this journey because that's a lot of money to pay off in in right at two years yeah well we actually started the journey the Monday after our wedding so unfortunately Jared got laid off a few weeks.

Speaker 5 How many weeks was it?

Speaker 4 It was about eight weeks before we got married.

Speaker 1 Okay, we got married.

Speaker 5 Yeah, but he got a new job starting the Monday after. So we decided not to go on our honeymoon and put the honeymoon money aside.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 2 Put it towards debt and keep rolling.

Speaker 5 So now we're debt-free and then we're now saving up to go on our honeymoon

Speaker 1 however many years later.

Speaker 1 I thought you were rad, dude, but you got laid off and you just went and found another job.

Speaker 4 Well, I started, uh, I got laid off on a Friday after that freeze that came through the state. And so I started work the next Monday.

Speaker 1 When all the Texans found out they weren't connected to a grid?

Speaker 4 Yeah, if you could run a chainsaw, you had plenty of work to do.

Speaker 1 My friends were sending pictures of themselves getting drinking water from snow on their grill.

Speaker 4 I just threw it in four and went back to work and landed a job pretty soon there after that and just got after it.

Speaker 2 Wow, that's amazing, you guys.

Speaker 1 Holy dude,

Speaker 1 they don't make guys like this anymore, Taylor.

Speaker 1 They don't. Golly, man.

Speaker 2 Okay, so for you guys,

Speaker 2 what was the hardest part? Because I keep saying two years. It was more like three, close to three.

Speaker 2 What were the things that were just, man, that you just hated so much in this process?

Speaker 4 I think for me personally, and I can kind of speak for her, although she's going to say what she wants to say. That's how she rolls.

Speaker 1 Good man, right?

Speaker 5 It's good.

Speaker 1 You should.

Speaker 4 I think it was adopting that mindset and just like this was not in our hand, like you say, Dr. John, but it was in our lap.

Speaker 4 I mean, for me specifically, I mean, I had a the government promised me that I was going to have an aviation contract and two and a half years into that and a year of being on medical review.

Speaker 4 That didn't end up happening, and that's how I went from personally zero debt to I was out of state two semesters, and so I went from a full ride scholarship with the Navy into 30 grand and then might as well finish out the degree, so 45 grand.

Speaker 4 So I think it was just for me, though, meeting her, we got to share a lot of this, And that's what's a beautiful part of marriage is, like, I got to share some of my tenacity, and she got to share some of her patience with me.

Speaker 4 And so together, adhering that to the budget and just letting God take the wheel and keeping our foots on the gas, I mean, Lord's going to get you where you need to go.

Speaker 1 Hey, I think I'm going to, we have a, are y'all coming to the money in marriage retreat this week? We are. We're thrilled to be here.

Speaker 1 I think you need to keynote that, brother, because I can't, I mean, you just said it better than I could have said it.

Speaker 1 That's incredible.

Speaker 4 Well, I listened to you yesterday in the vineyard, Dr. John, so I appreciate you.

Speaker 1 You have a vineyard?

Speaker 1 That's what I do.

Speaker 4 I'm a wine grape farmer.

Speaker 1 You're like a movie character, man.

Speaker 2 It's like a Hallmark movie character.

Speaker 1 Good gosh.

Speaker 1 I'm in the vinegar. I'm a vineyard farmer.
I'm in the vineyard.

Speaker 1 I'm a glorified farmer.

Speaker 4 It's a vineyard manager is what it is.

Speaker 1 And your wife's getting these secret magic deals at Marshall's.

Speaker 4 Yesterday, and I, fortunately, with some of my Navy training, was able to iron this bad boy in the hotel before we got here.

Speaker 1 Okay, look at that seems false. Well, and hey, the only part of your story that

Speaker 1 rings a little false to me is when you said that the government made a promise and they didn't come through. They never do that.
They always

Speaker 1 keep their prisoners shooting. Precisely.
Precisely. All right, Caitlin, what was this like for you?

Speaker 1 What was the biggest, like, I imagine, honey, I lost my job and you saying, okay, we're going to, well, I'm in this. We're going to do this together.
I got a new job. Yay.
And it's Monday.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Right? Like, walk us through that.

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 5 it's actually a great story.

Speaker 5 We had our wedding, my wedding dress in tow. We

Speaker 5 were dropping his friend off at the San Antonio airport. And the day after our wedding, we actually went to his new job site at a new vineyard.
And my wedding dress was just in the back.

Speaker 5 And we're like, here we are.

Speaker 1 Wow. Just

Speaker 5 a lot of hard work. For me, what I struggled with the most is the comparison trap that we all fall in.
Yeah.

Speaker 5 So, and through the years, I mean, it's, that was one thing that I still held on to that was really hard.

Speaker 5 But just even getting on this stage is going to be really, it's really freeing for me. So, we can't wait to see what happens next.

Speaker 2 So, great.

Speaker 2 Pretty big deal. So, how does it feel? You guys standing here completely debt-free versus almost three years ago, you're getting married, starting a new job with $150,000 in debt.
What's the

Speaker 1 big contrast?

Speaker 2 What's the contrast of you guys three years ago versus today?

Speaker 4 Complete freedom, liberation.

Speaker 2 So good. Peace.

Speaker 4 That's the biggest part:

Speaker 4 it's the peace. It's like, okay, something happens tomorrow.
Who cares?

Speaker 1 Yeah. We're good.
It's

Speaker 4 six months, you know, whatever. So good.
And then now,

Speaker 1 whatever future kids you may be blessed with,

Speaker 1 will never know that struggle, right?

Speaker 4 Right. That was the goal.
Mission accomplished. I love that.

Speaker 1 Okay, where's the honeymoon going to be?

Speaker 2 Where's the honeymoon going to be? Do you know?

Speaker 4 We're going to try to go to New Zealand and Australia at the end of the year.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 4 Go drink some Sauvien Blanc.

Speaker 1 Oh, Vineyard guy.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's what he's talking about. Oh, so good, you guys.
We are rooting for you. Absolutely incredible.
Absolutely incredible.

Speaker 1 I just thought like movies like The Notebook aren't real. And then

Speaker 1 this couple right here. Jeez, Louise.
Y'all are amazing. Incredible.

Speaker 2 It does. And it says something about you all that you're starting a brand new chapter from a relational standpoint.
And then you're starting a brand new money chapter.

Speaker 2 I mean, doing new things all at once, I guess, may be easier. I don't know.
You just dive right in and go.

Speaker 2 But man, not a lot of people can hold that level of change because, I mean, shifting your money perspective it's a that's a big that's a big ship to turn right especially if you had been on one path for so long like you guys had been so it took me about 20 years of being married before I realized oh yeah my wife's different than me and that's a good thing right and you already know yeah like

Speaker 1 I'm fired up and she's patient and that works like we work together that way

Speaker 1 and you can appreciate those differences instead of going to war with them every morning right so good for you guys y'all are inspirational and just amazing so great so I just want to thank you all for the incredible wise advice and inputs that you put into our lives because we're able to, you know, not lead our life group.

Speaker 4 And so we thank you, and you've started a generation of

Speaker 2 you guys did it. You guys did it.

Speaker 1 So Jared and Caitlin from Austin, Texas paid off. How much is

Speaker 2 $150,000 in 34 months, making $120,000 to $170,000? Count it down.

Speaker 1 Count it down. Let it rip.

Speaker 4 Glory to God.

Speaker 1 We're dead free.

Speaker 1 That's how it's done, America. You can do it too.
We'll be right back on the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 All right, welcome back to the Ramsey Show. All right, listen, if you listen to the Ramsey Show or if you listen to my other show, the Dr.
John Deloney Show,

Speaker 1 and especially on that show, man, we take a lot of calls, Rachel, about relationships, sex, intimacy, the whole thing.

Speaker 1 And so after several years of putting out questions for humans, more and more and more and more and more and more people are asking, hey, can we have the intimacy deck? Can we talk about like

Speaker 2 those kind of questions?

Speaker 1 Those kind of conversations. And so after a couple of years, finally, here we are, the questions for humans intimacy deck.

Speaker 1 These are questions about, yes, about sex and intimacy, but it goes way deeper than that. And man, everyone who's written back in has gotten these things, you're going to learn something unexpected.

Speaker 1 You're going to laugh. You're going to learn some things maybe aren't so funny, but you're going to learn and you're going to learn, you're going to build emotional intimacy, have fun.

Speaker 1 And here's the most important thing: connected quality time together.

Speaker 1 And I don't know any married people, very, very, actually, very, very few who don't need some assistance asking some of those deeper, harder questions.

Speaker 1 And it's easy to point to the deck and be like, hey, it's not me. It's the card.
Like, what's the answer to that? That's it. That's it.
Tell me. You are worth a marriage.
It's incredible.

Speaker 1 So get questions for humans intimacy edition today.

Speaker 1 And by the way, we've made third editions, all brand new questions for couples, for friends, for parents and kids. That's all new questions.

Speaker 1 So, you can get all this at ramseysolutions.com/slash store. You can click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcasts.

Speaker 2 And I'll say this:

Speaker 2 we went to Chick-fil-A and they kind of a ripped-off version of this, John.

Speaker 2 They have a, yeah, and it's my kids' favorite. Of course, it is.
And I was like, oh man, I need to get John's cards for our family. So, for the parenting ones, I'm going to pick pick up a pack.

Speaker 1 Okay. But don't.

Speaker 1 Not that. I got confused.

Speaker 1 Not the intimacy. No.
The question for humans' intimacy is not good for your kids.

Speaker 2 No, I don't. No.

Speaker 1 That's not a modernization.

Speaker 2 I'm just saying the concept of the cards

Speaker 2 and asking these questions. Winston and I love doing it together.
And I'm saying our kids.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 They love it. They love asking us questions off these Chick-fil-A cards, which yours, I'm sure, hold up.

Speaker 1 And I remember leaving,

Speaker 1 I had a deck of parents and kids I left in the car on accident. I was just getting them from work to the house.
Yeah. And Josephine, my daughter, pulled them out.

Speaker 1 And still to this day, she'll grab one out. Even if it's the same question, what I found is with kids, a year later, the answer is different.
And it just makes it fun. So great.
I love it.

Speaker 1 FrenzySolutions.com slash store. All right, let's go out to Des Moines, Des Moines, Iowa, and talk to Kelly.
What's up, Kelly?

Speaker 1 Yes. What up?

Speaker 3 How are you guys?

Speaker 1 I mean, could not be better. We're doing great.
How about you?

Speaker 3 I'm doing all right. Thank you.

Speaker 1 If you were doing great, you wouldn't be calling us. What's up?

Speaker 3 So I'm calling because

Speaker 3 my husband and I, I'll give you kind of some details.

Speaker 3 Happily married for 10 years. We've been together for 18.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 his mom has been having some health issues the last couple of years.

Speaker 3 And a couple years ago, we downsized her to a smaller home, everything all on one level.

Speaker 3 And things have been going great until last year we got a phone call from the bank when we were on vacation that they were concerned about the amount of money exiting her account.

Speaker 3 When we get back home, we found out that over the course of about nine months, she had given away over $150,000

Speaker 3 in scams.

Speaker 1 And there's no recourse.

Speaker 3 The money is gone.

Speaker 1 It was kind of fraudulent.

Speaker 3 It was all

Speaker 3 on her own doing.

Speaker 3 And so thankfully, the home that we downsized her to is in our name.

Speaker 3 And thank goodness, because we are pretty confident that the person scamming her would have convinced her to get a second mortgage on the property.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 we've had a lot of conversations over the last year and a half about the amount of times that she has fallen and gotten hurt.

Speaker 3 And the reason that I think she even fell victim to these scams is that she's very lonely. She has been living on her own for over 30 years.

Speaker 3 And we just felt, you know, how can we sit back and watch her be lonely and depressed and have these health issues? And we felt it on our hearts to welcome her into our home.

Speaker 3 The home that we are currently in is very small. It is our pre-marriage home, and we have dramatically outgrown it.
So we identified and purchased a new home that we closed on last week. The

Speaker 3 part of the financial intention of all of this was that the current home we are in, we own free and clear, and the home that she is in, that is in our name, we also own free and clear.

Speaker 3 We were getting a bridge loan, we were able to move into the new home and sell both of those properties,

Speaker 3 therefore then owning the new home completely debt-free.

Speaker 1 Right? Yeah,

Speaker 3 since we have closed on the new home

Speaker 1 nine days ago,

Speaker 3 she has started exhibiting some behaviors that I have never seen out of her in 18 years. She has become very angry, very demanding,

Speaker 3 and

Speaker 3 I hate to say even almost entitled about the new home.

Speaker 3 And it has just been giving me all sorts of red flags about,

Speaker 3 I don't know if I can do this anymore.

Speaker 1 How old is she, Kelly?

Speaker 3 She will be 73 in a couple months.

Speaker 1 Has your husband sat down and laid out the ground rules for moving into your house?

Speaker 3 So we did sit down with her two nights ago.

Speaker 3 And I was very candid about

Speaker 3 that I thought I was ready for this, that we have discussed this for about a year and a half.

Speaker 3 All of a sudden, I'm feeling a big wave of regret, and I feel like I may have over-promised something that I don't know that I can deliver on anymore

Speaker 3 and

Speaker 3 she admitted that part of why she is recently very angry with us is

Speaker 3 because we have had to take over her finances

Speaker 3 because she continually was making poor choices

Speaker 3 and so she's very, very angry with us that we have not allowed her to obtain a new credit or debit card.

Speaker 1 Sure.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 are y'all have some sort of financial power of attorney? Yes, my husband does. Okay, so does she have some sort of diagnosis that makes that possible? Or does she sign it over to you?

Speaker 3 We had the financial power of attorney in place when we purchased the home that she is in in 2021.

Speaker 1 I know, but she would have had to sign that over as an adult. Like, what keeps her from going to just get her own credit card?

Speaker 3 So part of what we did as putting the rails on things, and she was present with all of this, we froze her credit at all three credit bureaus. We

Speaker 3 first she had two credit cards. Then when we dug into it, we found she had four.
Well, no, she had eight.

Speaker 3 And they were all full of fraudulent charges.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 here's how it all distills down.

Speaker 1 She's a 73-year-old woman.

Speaker 1 And she's an adult.

Speaker 1 And if she's got

Speaker 1 early onset dementia, she's got some sort of mental health challenges or cognitive decline challenges and y'all have had to step in to help, then part of stepping into help is just knowing that no adult likes that kind of help.

Speaker 1 And there's just going to be some pushback. Very similar to when you're parenting a young child.
You're doing the right thing and it just comes with blowback.

Speaker 2 But does she, can I ask, does she have that, Kelly? Or is she just.

Speaker 1 But it sounds like y'all came in and said, if you're going to live in my house, then here's the rules. And she is really not liking that.

Speaker 3 well she's she has been without a debit or credit card for coming up on a year now so do y'all give her an allowance

Speaker 2 she we're in a small enough community that the vast majority of places that she shops at still take a personal check okay so she's still able to get all of her groceries car service okay so my thing kelly is i don't want you guys to have this level of parenting over a 73 year old who mentally is is stable yes she doesn't want your house She's fallen for scams, but it's not because of John's point that she has some mental decline.

Speaker 2 She's a 73-year-old who doesn't make wise decisions. And there's only to a point that you guys can control that, Kelly.
You know, like there's something to be said about

Speaker 2 letting her have to experience, right, to a degree of pain. I don't know if you can control your

Speaker 2 mother-in-law for so long.

Speaker 1 Well, and if y'all, at the end of the day, it sounds like she's going to be with you regardless.

Speaker 1 And so I think sitting down and having that direct conversation, do you want to take your money back, but you're going to be living with us and you're going to be living under our rules because you don't have a budget and you keep falling for these scams or we're going to continue to love you and it's going to be frustrating, but we can get through this together.

Speaker 1 Thanks for the call. I know that's a mess.
Hey, everybody, head over to the Ramsey Network app. If you're watching this on YouTube or podcasts, the show is about to end.

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