You Should Be Furious at Your Debt!

Speaker 1 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people

Speaker 1 build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual, amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host.
Thank you for joining us at America. We're glad you're here.

Speaker 1 Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, host of the Ken Coleman Show on the Ramsey Networks.

Speaker 1 He's going to help us talk about work and careers and making money while we walk on all sides of your life. And he's my co-host today.
Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225.

Speaker 1 John in Dallas starts this hour. Hey, John, what's up?

Speaker 2 Hey, how's it going?

Speaker 1 Hey, how can we help?

Speaker 2 Hey, so a negative in a car loan that I would like to get out of.

Speaker 2 The loan is about $50,000 right now.

Speaker 2 And the

Speaker 2 quotes I've been getting are somewhere around $43,000 to $44,000.

Speaker 1 And the quotes quotes you got were from who?

Speaker 2 One was from Jeep. I think the other was from CarMax.

Speaker 1 Okay. All right.

Speaker 1 So what kind of car is it? Jeep?

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's a Jeep.

Speaker 1 Okay, cool. What is the exact payoff? Have you called and gotten that?

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's just $50,460

Speaker 1 something. Cool.
All right. Well, there are three numbers when you get ready to sell a car that you can look at.
What you were given was a wholesale number or a trade-in value.

Speaker 1 So if Jeep or CarMax buys that car for $43,

Speaker 1 that tells me that they can sell that car for more than that, and that's why they're buying it.

Speaker 1 They're adding inventory to their lot, and obviously their goal is to make a profit when they sell a car off of their lot.

Speaker 1 So if they buy it for $43, they're going to put it on the market over there around $47, $48, whatever, something like that. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 1 Second number is is a private sale number, which is an individual selling to another individual. That would be the number you need.

Speaker 1 And you can get that at kellybluebook, kbb.com, or go to Edmund's CarGuide. Either one of them helps you get that number.

Speaker 1 Matter of fact, you got to look at both of them and compare them and see what you think you should put it on the market for at Trader.com or Craigslist or Facebook Marketplace or wherever it is you want to sell your car to another individual.

Speaker 1 The third number is a retail number, which is what the Jeep dealership is going to put the car on the lot for because they are a retail establishment.

Speaker 1 You don't have that option because you don't have a car lot. It's not illegal for you to get that much money for it.
It's just unlikely you're going to get that much money for it.

Speaker 1 So I think your car is probably worth $47,000.

Speaker 1 I might be wrong, but when you look it up, you're probably going to find it to be about something like that. Who do you owe the $50,000 to?

Speaker 1 It's

Speaker 2 Chrysler Financial. The issue that I have seen, though, is right now it seems like the same Jeeps on the lot brand new are going for

Speaker 2 46 or 47.

Speaker 1 You got something wrong because they would not have offered you 43 for it.

Speaker 1 Because

Speaker 1 your Jeep is used.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I got

Speaker 2 a warranty with it. I don't know if that.

Speaker 1 That's great.

Speaker 1 You did a

Speaker 1 it's horrible, but it's great news for this situation. So when you pay off the Jeep and sell it early, they will give you a partial refund for that upfront purchase on that warranty.

Speaker 1 That's probably worth a couple of grand. But listen to me carefully, okay? The chance that Jeep, the Jeep dealer, will pay $43 for a used Jeep

Speaker 1 that they have to sell for $43 is zero.

Speaker 1 And if they're selling the exact same Jeep for $48,

Speaker 1 one of your numbers is wrong.

Speaker 1 Because it doesn't add up. I mean, if the actual exact same Jeep's selling for 48, it would make sense a used one like yours is selling for less.
Agreed?

Speaker 1 Agreed. And if they're going to resell yours after they buy it from you, they're going to make a profit.
So

Speaker 1 if that's selling for 48 and 46 is what used Jeep or 45 is what the used Jeep is, they're offering you less than 43. So you got

Speaker 1 something else going on here. You're trying to figure out some way you're trapped and you're not.
So

Speaker 1 how is your bad your credit?

Speaker 2 Mid-600s, I filed for bankruptcy maybe like four years ago, right when the pandemic started.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So your credit sucks.
Okay. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So what you've got to do is you have to find the difference. Let's pretend that you can sell the car for $47, like I'm saying.
Then you need the $3,000 difference, $3,400 difference.

Speaker 1 You've got to come up with that money, either in cash or you've got to borrow it. That's why I was asking about your credit.

Speaker 1 And if you go borrow $5,000, buy you a $2,000 car and write a check for the difference on this when someone else buys the car,

Speaker 1 then you're out of it and you're free.

Speaker 1 But that's what you're going to have to do because this thing's strangling you with an $850 payment. It's beating the snot out of you.

Speaker 1 And if you're like me, John, when I've done stuff like this, every time I write that check, I feel dumber.

Speaker 1 Every time.

Speaker 1 Just the very act of doing it can. Yeah.

Speaker 3 And I would say there needs to be some intensity on this.

Speaker 3 Intensity on everything that Dave laid out, your three options: intensity to sell something, go make some extra money, attack this thing so that when you sell it, whatever gap you have there, you're able to get a beater or something else and put this thing behind you.

Speaker 3 But this has got to be handled with intensity.

Speaker 1 It really does. If you're still sitting around paying an $850 payment six months from now because you haven't taken action, then you just keep hitting yourself.

Speaker 1 You're just beating the snot out of yourself every day.

Speaker 1 And so the faster you get out of this, the less damage it's going to do. Because Because let me tell you, 100% of the time, Jeeps go down in value.

Speaker 1 So the longer you hold it, the wider the gap is going to be.

Speaker 1 Right now, the gap is the least it's ever going to be. That's exactly right.
So Ken is smart. He's telling you the truth.
You got to get out of this thing.

Speaker 1 You got to get fired up about this and go like, my hair is on fire. This matters.
I got to do this. I got to get after it.
And,

Speaker 1 you know, borrow the difference, sell something, take six jobs, come up with the difference in cash, whatever it is.

Speaker 3 Because the quicker he gets out of this, the quicker he gets a $10,000 raise. It's that simple.
$815 a month, that's right about, you know, just shy of $10,000. That's a lot of money.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 $8.33 a month is $10,000 a year. Yeah.
You get a $10,000 raise.

Speaker 3 That would motivate me.

Speaker 1 Motivate me to never take out the payment in the first place.

Speaker 1 There's that, right?

Speaker 1 So, guys, cars, all of us in America, you know, as a culture, we are stupid about cars.

Speaker 1 It's the largest thing we buy that goes down in value.

Speaker 1 And so, you take a $50,000 car and you drive it for three years, you know, you're going to lose 60 to 70% of that money. It's going down in value like a rock.

Speaker 1 That's where Chevey gets that, like a rock. Okay.

Speaker 1 And so, you know, they go down in value and so there's nothing evil about having a nice car what's bad is when your nice car has you

Speaker 1 and it has you when you bought a car you couldn't afford that's going down in value you've got too much tied up in a depreciating asset and worse than that you financed it

Speaker 1 worse than that you fleeced it

Speaker 1 Oh, you're getting fleeced. That's a bad idea.
Don't do that. That was my sheep impression to go with with the fleece joke.
Y'all got it, okay?

Speaker 1 So, yeah, really, seriously.

Speaker 1 And I'm like you, I like a nice car. I drove a nice car today, but I can afford to take the losses as a percentage of my net worth, percentage of my income.

Speaker 1 And but most people, man, cars are killing you, they're killing you.

Speaker 1 This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 What would it be like to have no debt,

Speaker 1 million dollars in your 401k?

Speaker 1 That'd be pretty cool.

Speaker 1 You know, we've studied people that have done that, tens of thousands of them since we started doing this 30-something years ago.

Speaker 1 None of them accidentally did that.

Speaker 1 They didn't wake up and go, whoa, look what happened. They're not shocked.

Speaker 1 It was a series of steady

Speaker 1 habits and behaviors. Ken, we see habits and behaviors change everything in every area of our life, right?

Speaker 1 And the habit and the behavior that causes people to be intentional with their money to hit the goal of some level of financial peace, a pile of money in your retirement and zero debt, house and everything paid off, that happens only with a plan.

Speaker 1 You have to plan to do it, and then you have to incrementally, how do you eat an elephant, a bite at a time, but you need a plan to eat the elephant.

Speaker 1 You need to do a little blueprint, a little diagram on the elephant, and go, okay, I'm going to start right there. And then I'm going to go over there, and then I'm going to go over there.

Speaker 1 And that's called a budget, where you give every dollar of your money an assignment.

Speaker 1 Hmm.

Speaker 1 Don't do

Speaker 1 ready, fire, aim.

Speaker 1 Do ready, aim,

Speaker 1 fire.

Speaker 1 Every dollar has given direction exactly what to do. And that's why we named the world's best budgeting app, Every Dollar.
Tens of millions of people are using it.

Speaker 1 You can get it for free, and it'll get you on your journey, baby. Go to the App Store, go to Google Play, download Every Dollar for free.

Speaker 1 So Ken helped me. And a few of the rest of our team helped me put together the questions that I would ask President Donald Trump once we were given the opportunity to sit down with him.

Speaker 1 We reached out to Vice President Harris's camp if you haven't heard and to President Donald Trump's camp and offered to do a long-form interview for the Ramsey podcast Ramsey Show YouTube channel and we were able to go up there last week and do that and

Speaker 1 we posted it yesterday

Speaker 1 Wednesday October the 2nd on our podcast channel and on our YouTube channel so that people can watch it. And Ken, it broke all records around Ramsey Ramsey anyway.

Speaker 1 And we've got some huge numbers around Ramsey, but these numbers are even bigger.

Speaker 1 Nine hours and 11 minutes after it was posted, the first million people had watched it.

Speaker 1 The completion, meaning the people that turn it on and watch it all the way through, is almost 100%.

Speaker 1 No one's turning it off. They're watching the interview all the way through, which also tells me that our team did a great job putting that together.

Speaker 1 And some of those questions that you helped me formulate must have been stuff people wanted to know about.

Speaker 3 Yeah, imagine that. We got probably the most covered, the most

Speaker 3 unpredictable presidential election of our lifetime. It's been a crazy last three months.
People are paying attention. We're just about 30 days out.

Speaker 3 I think it was timely because I think people wanted to know what you were going to ask. I think you've got obviously a very trusted audience.
My question for you is:

Speaker 3 because people can watch it from a content standpoint, I'm just curious.

Speaker 3 He had a very full day. There was a massive press conference right there in the lobby of Trump Tower moments after you wrapped the interview.
I'm just curious, what was his state of mind?

Speaker 3 Was he present? Was he distracted? What was going on? I'm just curious what that was like in the moments before the conversation.

Speaker 1 100% zoomed in. Really? Completely.
Not distracted at all. Interesting.
I don't think you can survive in the environment that a presidential candidate, either party, is in

Speaker 1 because it's from one thing to the next, to the next, to the next, to the next, to the next, to the next. I mean, you're all day long.

Speaker 1 You're flying from, you know, they flew in from North Carolina. They'd just been down there speaking.

Speaker 1 And then they had this, and they had that, and they had this, and they came in and they go, hey, we're actually running a little bit early. Can you start early? And we're like, yeah, let's go.

Speaker 1 But if you can't concentrate in the moment in the middle of that kind of frenetic thing,

Speaker 1 I think the process would eat you alive and you would collapse. And your image, you know, what you're trying to portray would collapse.

Speaker 1 If you're thinking about the next thing rather than the moment being present,

Speaker 1 I don't think you could do it.

Speaker 1 It'd be like doing the show and I'm thinking about something else.

Speaker 3 That's exactly right.

Speaker 1 You have to have a level of focus.

Speaker 3 The other question I think people would love to know is

Speaker 3 we have an image of somebody like him who's been covered probably more than any person in the history of media. So his, you know, his ID rating around the world is 100, right?

Speaker 3 In those moments before the interview, moments after where only you and the people in the room saw that, how does he come across?

Speaker 3 What's personality like? Because we know him as Rally, Trump, and when he tended to be presidential.

Speaker 1 Yeah, well, and making fun of people on Twitter or whatever and all that. Acaustic, bombastic.

Speaker 1 That's kind of what you think of when you think of Donald Trump.

Speaker 1 He's quite the opposite. Really? Just completely chill.

Speaker 1 Just came in, sat down, goes, hey, can we move that light over? It's making my hair glow.

Speaker 1 And we said, Yes, Mr. President.

Speaker 1 We can move the light. Is there anything else you need, sir? So really focus on details.
I mean, we do that with anybody, obviously.

Speaker 1 We're going to treat anyone with respect

Speaker 1 that's sitting there. We're not going to, no, we can't move the light.
Of course we can.

Speaker 1 But he's like, yeah, this thing,

Speaker 1 it gets kind of crazy, Dave. That's funny.

Speaker 1 That's funny.

Speaker 1 He was telling me a story. I was hearing it from Don Jr.
that they were joking around the family, and some of the kids didn't think it was funny after he got a shot in the ear. Right.
And

Speaker 1 of the one of the kids one i won't say which one okay right looked at him and said yeah but how's the hair right is the hair okay yeah yes yeah ear ears ears bad hair's great right it didn't hurt the hair yeah and so they they got a sense of humor and so yeah it was really um

Speaker 1 disarming how chill yeah you know because you kind of get amped up because you're gonna meet you got to meet the energy, right? Right. You're going to be energy with energy.

Speaker 1 And otherwise it's going to look weird and be weird. But it was just like, I wanted it to be down.
I wanted to not have stump, you know, bombastic, crazy Trump. I wanted to meet the guy.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And I wanted our audience to meet the guy. And we, 90%, we got that.

Speaker 3 The other thing I was going to ask you that I think is interesting

Speaker 3 is...

Speaker 3 Again, we have this perception of him. He's got a business, obviously, he owns so many different types of businesses within his empire.
What was the interaction like in the tower with the team?

Speaker 3 Because I think that, you know, if people come to Ramsey Solutions, you come to one of our live events, what they will experience is what you require, which is high touch, high-efficient service, the way we try to treat our fans.

Speaker 3 I've been around you a decade, been an employee, been around you for two decades, work with you and for you for a decade. You require that.
And thus it is

Speaker 3 a system. We have created a way, a standard that you have required and how how we treat people, and people comment it all the time.

Speaker 3 I'm curious, being in his world for those moments, what did you notice about the professionalism? Did you see any culture things? Because you really talk a lot about that with Entree leadership.

Speaker 1 You know, you and I,

Speaker 1 we teach a lot on leadership, and we've got the Entree leadership brand.

Speaker 1 We speak to these small business guys, and we end up in discussions with teams about leadership and helping people run their business and leadership issues. And,

Speaker 1 you know, you can tell by the way the team is acting,

Speaker 1 you know, are they looking around like fear? You can see fear in their eyes or fear. Zero fear.

Speaker 1 Zero fear.

Speaker 1 And they were cutting up. They were having a good time.
They weren't sloppy. They were very professional.
Sure.

Speaker 1 The excellence. And they were very complimentary of our team, how excellent our team was to interact with and how we, you know, trains run on time.
We got stuff done we're supposed to, all that.

Speaker 1 So there was this mutual respect. And, you know, we're just standing around for 20 minutes or 30 minutes talking and

Speaker 1 talking to Secret Service guys and the Homeland Security guys and the other Secret Service guys and the other Secret Service guys and the other Secret Service guys.

Speaker 1 But his social media team, you know, they're the ones that put this whole thing together because obviously this falls in that bucket. And

Speaker 1 they

Speaker 1 are really good at what they do.

Speaker 1 And he just lets them do it.

Speaker 1 There's no fear.

Speaker 1 They're running their lane. They're running their lane.
Fully delegated.

Speaker 1 Fully delegated. You get the feeling he actually knows exactly what they're doing,

Speaker 1 but is not giving any instruction whatsoever. Interesting.
Except about the lighting. Yeah, there you go.
That's right. Well, that involves the hair.

Speaker 3 That's the hair. It's a different standard.
There we go.

Speaker 1 This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Ken Coleman Ramsey Personality is my co-host today,

Speaker 1 number one best-selling author of the book, Paycheck to Purpose Abigail is with us in Minneapolis hi Abigail how are you I'm doing good how are you better than I deserve what's up in your world

Speaker 2 not much so I guess my question today is

Speaker 2 I'm in quite a bit of student loan debt and I have a job that I love and a career path that I think I love

Speaker 2 but the amount of debt that I'm in and the amount of money that I'm making, I just don't see how it's practical to do that.

Speaker 1 What are those two numbers? How much do you make and how much debt do you have?

Speaker 2 So, I'm in about $160,000 debt. It's all student loan debt.
I don't have any other debt.

Speaker 2 I make currently $65,000 at my salary job as a judicial law clerk.

Speaker 2 And then I work another job as an event manager, and I probably bring in about $1,000 a month on that.

Speaker 1 Okay, a judicial law clerk.

Speaker 1 Is that what you said? Yes. Okay.

Speaker 1 And your degree is in what?

Speaker 2 Yes, so I have a BA and then I have my law degree as well.

Speaker 1 Okay. So

Speaker 1 have you passed the bar?

Speaker 2 Yes, I just took the February, or I mean the July bar.

Speaker 1 So why would you not be a lawyer instead of a clerk?

Speaker 2 Just in case I didn't pass, I got this job that I am kind of stuck in for like about a year.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but I mean, you, now that you've passed the bar, you double your income as a lawyer, right?

Speaker 2 Yes, if I wanted to go like in private, but I feel like my heart and my prayers have been leading me more into like the public sector and working for the government.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you're $160,000 in debt. You don't take a government job.
I'll help you with that. I'll let Ken, the expert, tell you the same thing.
Wait a minute. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 I wonder what I'm going to say here.

Speaker 3 Well, Abigail, I love what you're saying, but I would agree with Dave that temporarily we pivot to the private sector, juice that income, knock the debt out, and you can always return back to working for the government and that type of specific work that you want to do.

Speaker 1 What's not going on? What is the appeal of the government deal? Yeah.

Speaker 2 I just feel like there's a lot of need, especially

Speaker 1 a lot of

Speaker 2 need in the criminal justice system.

Speaker 1 A lot of need.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 And why can someone in the private world not supply someone's needs? Why is the government the place you go to get your needs supplied?

Speaker 1 I guess morally

Speaker 2 I want to work in the criminal justice system because I feel like there's a lot of issues there, but I don't think I could be a private defense attorney. Right.

Speaker 3 So, yeah,

Speaker 3 you're talking about

Speaker 1 the prosecutorial, that's all the government.

Speaker 3 So that's the the answer to Dave's question. If you want to put the bad guys away, in your mind, I want to be on this side of it.
I don't want to go to the private sector.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Again, again,

Speaker 3 I don't have a problem with that, but the reality is you're not stuck. But you did say something that's interesting.
Why are you, are you under some kind of contract?

Speaker 3 Because you said to Dave a moment ago that I'm stuck in this for a year. What does that mean?

Speaker 2 Yeah. So

Speaker 2 when I started the job, it's about a one-year commitment that you do

Speaker 2 a law clerk position.

Speaker 3 And so you have no way around that. We've got ourselves on paper.

Speaker 3 We've got to follow that to the nth degree on that, correct?

Speaker 2 Yeah, then I have probably like half a year left.

Speaker 1 Okay. Well, you've already not thought you were going to pass the bar?

Speaker 2 Well, I just wanted to make sure I had a job just in case I didn't.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but I mean, you

Speaker 1 signed a contract to stay knowing that you were going to go take the bar.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Well,

Speaker 3 that is what it is right now. So you've, as an event planner, you've got them up with an additional $12,000.
But right now,

Speaker 3 you're going to have to slash everything that you can slash and make as much extra income as you can. That's how you get out of this right now until the six months is up.

Speaker 3 But I'd begin this process today, as soon as you hang up with us, mapping out what the path is to the private sector for the sole purpose of making as much dough as we possibly can to knock this out.

Speaker 3 Because at that income, you can knock that out and get that out of your life.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So then I guess

Speaker 2 in the interim, while I'm still paying on my loans, right now I pay probably about $200 over what I is the minimum on them just because I'm trying to pay them off.

Speaker 2 Should I keep doing that or should I wait?

Speaker 1 Pay whatever you can pay right now.

Speaker 1 The more you pay, the less you'll owe.

Speaker 1 And, you know, and as fast as you can,

Speaker 1 let's move into a higher paying position. Okay.

Speaker 1 Here's what

Speaker 1 I'm troubled about, and I'm not positive I'm hearing this, but I'm going to throw it out there because I want to make sure I address it because I don't feel like I've been kind to you unless I do.

Speaker 1 Sometimes

Speaker 1 I run into folks who feel like,

Speaker 1 not in your world, not in the law world, but just in general, that, okay,

Speaker 1 I can do this thing that I do, this skill that I have, and if I work for a non-profit ministry,

Speaker 1 doing my thing, making 70% of what the marketplace pays for my thing,

Speaker 1 then I'm doing holy work. I'm doing good work, I'm doing God's work, I'm helping people work.

Speaker 1 But if I go into the private sector, by definition, it's greedy capitalism and I'm a horrible person, and that the only people over there are horrible people.

Speaker 1 And I kind of think I'm hearing a little bit of that out of you.

Speaker 1 Like the holy work is at the prosecutorial level, and no one in the private sector is as holy. And I just don't believe that.

Speaker 2 I don't think that's true. I just

Speaker 2 have prayed a lot about like what i want to use my

Speaker 2 career as and where i feel like i can help yeah and what you're

Speaker 1 what you're discovering is that what jesus said was true

Speaker 1 the borrower is slave to the lender 160 000 worth of debt and it's really hard to serve two masters

Speaker 1 the master

Speaker 1 of the answer in your prayer life is to serve a certain way, but it's a way that in which you can't pay your bills.

Speaker 1 And you're stuck mathematically because you have two masters. You have a student loan master, and you have God tapping you on the shoulder in your prayer life, telling you to do this other thing.

Speaker 1 And so, it's very hard to serve two masters.

Speaker 1 And so,

Speaker 1 I want to propose a third option for everyone out there, and that is that you do not have to work for less money to be holy,

Speaker 1 that you can serve with excellence in the marketplace, kindness, compassion, do good work, and help hurting people from a private sector position, anything you're doing.

Speaker 1 And that's as much a ministry as a nonprofit, because nonprofits are not in the Bible.

Speaker 1 Nonprofit is a designation by the IRS, not by God.

Speaker 1 And all nonprofits are profitable.

Speaker 1 If they're not, they go out of business. They close down.
They take in more than they pay out. They're profitable.
It's an accounting entry that allows them to stay under the IRS as a nonprofit.

Speaker 1 It is not a holiness issue.

Speaker 1 And so you can enter the private sector, folks, and do holy, godly work

Speaker 1 and be at the top of your game income-wise.

Speaker 1 I agree.

Speaker 3 I would say in this situation, I don't think she was necessarily going that route as much as

Speaker 3 in the private sector, you're limited in the type of work you're going to do that's going to put the bad guys in jail. So I would equate her situation to someone who really wants to teach.

Speaker 3 If you've got a master's degree and you want to teach, I would use that master's degree to go get a six-figure job, get rid of the debt, get your life in a situation where you live below your means, like the teachers we have in our millionaire study, third largest group of net worth millionaires.

Speaker 3 I agree with you too, though, Dave, that right now she needs to be going after the debt. But I do think that if you get your life

Speaker 1 my point is you don't have to sell your soul to do that i agree with you but i also say if she wants to put bad guys away you see that as honorable right i do but she said there was a need in the market the need is putting bad guys away well i i can't speak to what you know i want to help we're gonna have someone to help people we're gonna have somebody help the victim by putting the bad guy in jail yeah yeah i'll go with that law enforcement i think there's a need i love law and order i like the idea yeah it's interesting but i agree with you that now she needs more money yeah and i just i don't want I'm not sure if she's there, but I know a certain portion of our audience struggles with the idea that they equate being broke with holy.

Speaker 1 Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today.

Speaker 1 Ken, we did a...

Speaker 1 I spent a little time with my friend Ben Shapiro the other day, and we were talking about our mutual friend, Rabbi Daniel Lapin.

Speaker 1 And Rabbi talks about the Hebrew word in the Jewish, obviously, in the Jewish tradition, Jewish language, Rabbi's teachings,

Speaker 1 for work

Speaker 1 is

Speaker 1 virtually the same word as the word we use for worship.

Speaker 1 And those of us that have a New Testament, those guys play only in what I call the Old Testament. They call it the Bible, the Talmud.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 great friends of ours, by the way, we have great discussions. And

Speaker 1 that word work and worship are the same word. So, in their mindset, to do your work

Speaker 1 well with excellence in service of others is an act of worship.

Speaker 1 And that's what I was trying to say before that break.

Speaker 1 I think that a plumber that loves God

Speaker 1 and does excellent work at a fair price, treats people with kindness, shows up on time, cleans up his mess, does the work,

Speaker 1 and people that he's doing his work, what we would call in the New Testament, as unto the Lord in 2 Corinthians, right? Or if we're going to have Trump, we can say 2 Corinthians, right?

Speaker 1 But 2 Corinthians, right?

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 that'll come back to haunt me right there. But

Speaker 1 I'll hear about that by nightfall. But anyway,

Speaker 1 yeah, do your work as under the Lord. Your work matters.
It matters. And you talk about this all the time.

Speaker 1 And so functioning in your gifts as an act of worship does not require that you do it from a government position or a non-profit position. That's right.
It just means you have to do it.

Speaker 1 It's a matter of the attitude and the altitude of the heart,

Speaker 1 not.

Speaker 1 the actual location of the paycheck.

Speaker 3 That's exactly right.

Speaker 3 It's not holier depending on who is writing or who's signing your check rather. It's the actual work, the actual result itself.

Speaker 3 And to that end, you don't have to just choose one lane to do the work in. And I think it's really important that people see that, that there's missional results in multiple lanes of work.

Speaker 3 And when you can figure that out, you go, wait a second, if I can use my talent over here, it's just as worthy, to your point, as it is over here.

Speaker 3 It's all work that is honorable creates a good result.

Speaker 1 Talking about honorable work. Now, there's parts of any profession you can do that you could question the honor of it.

Speaker 3 No question.

Speaker 1 Not only from your

Speaker 1 intention, but also the type of people. You know, you don't want to be a guy getting people who are horrible criminals that really did do the thing.
I wouldn't want to spend my life getting them off.

Speaker 1 I don't think that's holy work

Speaker 1 in her situation. So,

Speaker 1 you know, do all defense attorneys do that? No, they don't. There are defense attorneys that function with

Speaker 1 integrity

Speaker 1 before God.

Speaker 1 And so but and there are some that are scummy.

Speaker 1 But that's just about true of accountants. It's about true of people that own gas stations.
It's true of people that own a hotel.

Speaker 1 I mean, you can find either you can find the good and the bad people in almost any profession.

Speaker 3 Yeah, there's no question about it. And it's all about what are you, what result are you creating and why are you creating it? And, you know, you could have someone who's selling faulty goods.

Speaker 1 That's wrong. Yep.
That is evil. Even though

Speaker 1 it's a dishonest scale.

Speaker 3 That's exactly right. So the act of selling something is not wrong, but if you're selling a faulty product intentionally, now all of a sudden it's dishonorable.

Speaker 1 Yeah, exactly. Philip is with us.
Philip is in Pittsburgh. Hi, Philip.
How are you? Good, Dave. How are you? Better than we deserve.
What's up?

Speaker 2 So, excuse me, I'm kind of nervous. But

Speaker 2 so, my question is: should I buy a business or grow what I have now organically? And feel free to ask questions to dig.

Speaker 1 What business are you in?

Speaker 2 So, it's a tax preparation and consulting business.

Speaker 1 Cool. And you have the opportunity to buy someone's practice.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I do.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Do you have the cash to buy it?

Speaker 2 Excuse me. So, no, it would be a seller finance deal.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 it's all about a mathematical thing, and then we've got to structure the financing where I'm not about to throw up about it. So

Speaker 1 I'll help you with that too. But

Speaker 1 the question is,

Speaker 1 what are you talking about paying for it?

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 we talked about $225 right now, and the billings, yearly billings are about

Speaker 2 between 175 and 190, or 175 and 180, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 Okay, so on $150,000, what's your net profit?

Speaker 2 $150,000.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 what she had, it's probably around like $75,000.

Speaker 1 So 50 cents. You got a 50% margin on this.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Because it's largely service-based.
It's got to do with your hours, right?

Speaker 1 Do you have the capacity to take that on?

Speaker 2 I do. I do.

Speaker 3 What are you generating in your business? What's your revenues picture?

Speaker 2 So right now, organically, I started at the beginning of the year. It's about 30 so far.

Speaker 2 And that's part

Speaker 2 of a side hustle as well. I work full-time as well.

Speaker 3 Yeah, what's your day job?

Speaker 2 Basically the same thing. I do tax planning and consulting.
I don't do preparation as much, but

Speaker 3 what do you make in your day job?

Speaker 2 90.

Speaker 3 And how much of the 30 on this side accounting hustle are you keeping? What's your profit margin on that 30?

Speaker 2 So on that, I actually have only taken maybe like $5,000. I put a lot of it back into it to grow it.

Speaker 3 How much you got in savings of the side hustle?

Speaker 2 On the side hustle, like $5,000, $5,000.

Speaker 3 What are you thinking is the benefit? You called us. I'm curious before you got on the phone with us.
What were you thinking the benefit would be of buying this other agency?

Speaker 2 I think the benefit for me would have been just to be able to work for myself. So I come, my whole family is entrepreneurs, and I have always wanted to do this.
And

Speaker 2 the lady who approached me is older, and

Speaker 2 I just wanted to work for myself. Does that make sense?

Speaker 1 Yeah, of course.

Speaker 2 And I feel like I've always, like I said, I've always wanted to do it, and

Speaker 2 this just kind of fell into my lap.

Speaker 3 My line of questioning is trying to get you to reconcile what the true benefit is because I'm pretty proud of the fact that you've launched something on the side in the same, you've got a good day job and a good salary, and you've managed to put money back into the side hustle.

Speaker 3 You got a little bit saved and retained earnings is what we call it in entree leadership.

Speaker 3 So I'm sitting there going, if I'm you, I'd probably go the more patient route because I don't see a huge windfall to even take on this financing.

Speaker 3 I don't think it's enough of a benefit to take on the debt. Doesn't make sense to me.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and that's actually the line of thinking I came across like a week ago.

Speaker 2 Like we were supposed to move slower with this and then that's kind of what I thought like a week ago and that's kind of why I'm calling as well.

Speaker 1 I wouldn't do it. Yeah.
Let's here's the thing. We need to separate.
You don't want to buy a job. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You want to buy a business. That's good.
And so if I were going to buy this business, I'm not going to do the tax prep. I'm going to hire someone to do the tax prep.

Speaker 1 Now, if I buy the business and I can generate 150 out of, if I keep enough of her clients

Speaker 1 from 200, I can keep three quarters of them. That'd be pretty good keep.
I got 150. I'm going to have a

Speaker 1 gross profit of

Speaker 1 75 on that. And then I've got to pay someone to do that work.
And I'm probably going to have to pay them 50 grand

Speaker 1 to do that work. Agreed?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And that means that as a business owner, I'm making $25,000 net profit on a purchase of $225,000. Not a chance it's worth that.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and part of the reason why I was I had pause was her billings are very low on a per return basis.

Speaker 1 So if I would, if I would increase them, I don't know how many of them would actually sell.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you're going to lose people just because it's not her, and then you're going to lose more if you raise prices. Just for a quick idea, Dave, I would pitch her on a finder's fee

Speaker 3 if she lets him take care of her customers. They got to go somewhere.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I'll share revenue with you for a period of 12 months or something. But it's not worth two and a quarter, dude.
That's overpriced. It's probably worth $100.

Speaker 1 This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual, amazing relationships.

Speaker 1 Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, host of the Ken Coleman Show, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today. Daniel is in Houston.
Hi, Daniel. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 2 Hey, guys, thanks for my call. Sure.

Speaker 1 How can I help?

Speaker 2 I have a question about budget. I want to know if my wife and I are going overkill.
So my wife and I, we recently moved in together. We're relatively recent college graduates.

Speaker 2 Household income is about $200,000. Take-home is about $145,000.
That's post-401, life insurance, health insurance, and HSA deductions. We have a six-month emergency fund.
We have zero debt.

Speaker 2 And now the goal is for her to become a stay-at-home mother one day. But up until that day, the discussed goal is to invest my income and live off hers.

Speaker 2 In other words, of that $145,000 that is take-home, $85,000 is mine, and 60 is hers. So invest 60% of a take-home income.
Is that over, Carol?

Speaker 1 Your home is paid for?

Speaker 2 We do not have a home. We moved into an apartment together.
Okay.

Speaker 1 And you're married?

Speaker 2 Yes, sir.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 1 You said that, but I was just double-checking the way, because usually it's kind of like automatic you move to in together once you're married. So I was just making sure I got this right.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 So the way I would look at this, the way I look at things is based on the data that I have of the studies that we've done and the people that we have worked with over the last 30 years that have built wealth, what did they do?

Speaker 1 And what is different about what they did and what you're talking about doing? And that's how I'm going to answer the question, okay?

Speaker 1 So in other words, as we studied 10,000 millionaires, how many of them did what you did? Lived in an apartment,

Speaker 1 did not buy a house,

Speaker 1 watched their rent go up every single year, which you can 100% count on rent going up your entire life, as long as you rent every year

Speaker 1 until you buy a house, and then it doesn't go up anymore. So, the house goes up, but the rent doesn't go up.

Speaker 1 Very, very few people that we have studied or that we know of and have tracked with that became wealthy used that plan. Instead, what they have done is they bought and then paid off a home

Speaker 1 by investing a little less and using the difference to save towards buying that home because the largest line item

Speaker 1 in the math in your budget every month is the largest item is cost of housing. And when the largest line item is rent and it goes up every single year, your largest item is out of your control

Speaker 1 and it's going up every year. When you fix it by buying and then you pay that house off, what we find is

Speaker 1 that we find 15 years from today, 14, 12 years from today for you, you have a net worth of a million and a half. 500 or 600 of that is a paid-off house, and 600 or 700 of that

Speaker 1 is in your 401ks and your Roth IRAs and so I'm going to lead you that direction rather than this

Speaker 1 intense saving obviously you let me tell you what you are doing very very well you're actually paying attention you're planning you're thinking you're scheming about how we can win this money thing Most people just ride through life with their, you know, their heads stuck up their assumptions and they don't know what's going

Speaker 1 and they just and then they wake up broke you're quite the opposite you're on the very other end you're very very intense um you're on fire and so we've just got to point you in a way that's going to be the most efficient for you to actually hit your end goal which is a a good stable life with a pile of wealth right that's our end goal yes sir yeah so i no i i would not do what you're doing i i would save i would start saving a maximum of 15 percent of my household income into retirement,

Speaker 1 and I would stop the HSA.

Speaker 1 I would build an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses, and then I'd see how fast I can build up a fat, juicy down payment.

Speaker 1 And I'd buy a house in Texas, which is a wonderful market to own a piece of real estate in. And I'd watch that house just go zoom, zoom over the next 15 years.

Speaker 1 I mean, look back and think about the neighborhood that you might buy in and what you could have bought that house for 15 years ago.

Speaker 1 That just kind of makes you a little smiley.

Speaker 1 Wow, 15 years ago, I could have bought this house for, oh, that's what it's going to be 15 years from now.

Speaker 1 And so, yeah, that's what you want to do.

Speaker 3 Yeah, and I would just encourage you, Daniel, there's zero, zero chance that the guy we're talking to right now is going to not be able to

Speaker 1 live below your means. You're going to win.

Speaker 3 So when she becomes a stay-at-home mama, I promise you this, Dave will tell you I'm right. You're going to win.

Speaker 3 She's going to want a house so dave's advice is absolutely right when babies she don't want to stay in an apartment so let's go ahead and just remove um the fear factor of will i have enough you're going to you know that's intensity right now is to get that house payment ready those are two good observations and i i didn't you really keyed in on something there because i forget Because I've gotten old and I've been doing this so long, but guys, especially young dudes that have just gotten married, guys can live under a bridge.

Speaker 3 100%.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 1 You know, if we, if we were fired,

Speaker 1 we would not be inside. Right.
I mean, it's like, and ladies, you know, they come along and they go, no, no, it's warm in here. It's cool in here.

Speaker 1 We can control the atmosphere inside a property.

Speaker 1 You know, and

Speaker 1 look, we can cook in here and, you know, we've got storage for our stuff. And yeah, it's like the domestication of the male beast.

Speaker 1 But yeah,

Speaker 1 but you're right. It's

Speaker 1 he really, they just got married and moved in together. Right.
And,

Speaker 1 you know, so he can live anywhere. Sure.
And, yeah, you're right. Even if she's going along with it right now because she's in love,

Speaker 1 but she's going to wake up and go,

Speaker 1 I don't love this apartment. No.
That's what's going to happen. You're exactly right.
And she will be right, by the way, when that does happen. 100% right.

Speaker 3 So we're trying to help you out on this one. And the way you're living, my friend, Daniel, you're going to be able to do that.

Speaker 1 You're going to do what Dave says.

Speaker 3 You're going to have a fat down payment.

Speaker 1 I think, Daniel,

Speaker 1 if I could get two drops of your blood

Speaker 1 inserted in some of these people that are sitting on their butts,

Speaker 1 you're way on your way. You're going to be great.
Oh, yeah. You're not going to be a broke guy because you're actually paying attention.
You're willing to do stuff. You're willing to go extreme.

Speaker 1 And you're going to win. You're going to win.

Speaker 3 He's going to call in several years from now.

Speaker 3 in a millionaire themed hour.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 You know?

Speaker 3 Baby Steps Millionaire. Baby Steps Millionaire.
He's that guy.

Speaker 1 Hang on, on, Daniel. I'm going to send you a copy of the book, The Baby Steps Millionaires.

Speaker 1 It's got the white paper of the study, the piece of research that I'm talking about in the back, and you will enjoy reading about these millionaires.

Speaker 1 And you'll see these correlating behaviors that they have with what I'm talking about and the data. And then you'll go, okay, I can adjust to that.
It'll be real helpful to you.

Speaker 1 You'll really enjoy this book. It's a bestseller, and I'll send it to you as my gift.

Speaker 1 My wedding gift since you got married and moved in together. This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by YReFi.

Speaker 1 Student loan debt is a swamp thousands of people find it hard to escape from. Don't be another statistic in the student loan swamp.
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Speaker 1 dot com slash Ramsey. YReFi

Speaker 1 dot com slash Ramsey might not be in all states.

Speaker 3 Today's question comes from Derek in South Carolina. I recently got promoted to private client banker for a national banking chain.

Speaker 3 This will probably be as high up the ladder as I can climb without being a financial advisor, branch manager, or business banking specialist.

Speaker 3 My position is a sales role where I bring home about $100,000 a year.

Speaker 3 I really love the finance world, but the more I listen to your show, it's getting harder for me to push loans, credit cards, and various investment products that I don't believe in like I once did.

Speaker 3 I don't want to hit the restart button because I love the finance world.

Speaker 3 I have my SIE and my Series 6 licenses through my employer, and they will pay for my education if I do not want to go to college, excuse me, if I do want to go to college for a degree.

Speaker 3 What field in finance would you suggest I pursue? I love the idea of financial planning, but I don't want to push products or make the same amount of money that I'm making now.

Speaker 3 Well, again,

Speaker 3 I just, when I read this, I go, good for you.

Speaker 3 You're not a bad person, so I understand I love the values that are coming across in this question, but you're not a bad person, person, so take the guilt jacket off for the moment and go, all right, I do have clear values that are going to guide me, and you can absolutely help people win in their finances without pitching products that you disagree with.

Speaker 3 And I think of

Speaker 3 investment professionals and things like that that have such a huge role in the people's lives that we've been coaching for years. And I think that's a great field.
If you want to stay in finance,

Speaker 3 then get in that space and help people with their long-term investments and just refuse to get involved with a firm or

Speaker 3 the kind of products that you're worried about. But I don't think you have to switch gears at all.
But Dave, I'm curious, this is more your world and you have a greater understanding of that.

Speaker 3 What's your take on this question?

Speaker 1 Oh, your answer is exactly right. I mean, just the Smart Vestor Pros that we have, that are people in the Ramsey Trusted Network that we

Speaker 1 send our listener to, they have the heart of a teacher. They're not pushing any products that are bad products.

Speaker 1 They're simply helping somebody get their Roth IRA started or get their kids' college fund started or roll over their 0401k. And they teach you what you should do.

Speaker 1 And then once you understand and decide that that's what you want to do, then they help you do it. They actually make the transaction for you.
And that's what a good Smart Vestor Pro does.

Speaker 1 And those guys. you know, and gals that after a period of time in the business that develop a book of business, a group of clients, they make a lot more than 100K.
That's right. And they should.

Speaker 1 And I'm fine with that. But you don't have to be a

Speaker 1 you don't have to lose your integrity to be in the financial world. There are plenty of ways to do it right.

Speaker 1 But I think there's more ways to do it wrong, which is what you're observing.

Speaker 3 That's exactly right.

Speaker 1 And so you just have to get with someone where you say, gosh,

Speaker 1 if I don't feel right about that, I'm not going to do it. And they go, oh, no, you have to do it.
Well, that's not where you want to be, right? That's exactly right. So, yeah,

Speaker 1 I would just, what I might do is just click on some of the smart vestors on our website, see if you can get to sit down, talk to one of them about joining their firm, or if not, at least tell the, maybe one of them will let you buy them a cup of coffee and they'll tell you how the business works.

Speaker 3 That's my great advice: is just to sit there with somebody and go, hey, I want to get in this space. Give me the good, the bad, the ugly.
What do I need to do?

Speaker 3 Is there an opportunity for you?

Speaker 3 And I think his litmus test on this is: I need to be in the world of finance where I'm helping people achieve freedom, not in the area of finance where I'm saddling people with debt.

Speaker 3 And I think that's the simple litmus test for him. And it comes from a good place.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's great. But I mean, you're not going to be working for a bank.
That's correct. 100% of the time, a bank employee is going to be forced to sell debt products.

Speaker 1 It's where banks make their money. It's what they do.
And,

Speaker 1 you know, there's no, I mean, it's like asking a dog if it's hungry.

Speaker 1 You know, of course it's hungry. Of course a banker sells debt.
It's what they do. Of course they think home equity loans and credit cards and car loans and lines of credit and

Speaker 1 are that they think, oh, that's the cat's meow. And

Speaker 1 obviously you've come to the conclusion that we have, that that's not a good plan. Kelsey's with us in Portland, Oregon.
Hi, Kelsey. How are you?

Speaker 2 Hi, Dave. It's so great to be on your show.
Thanks so much for taking my call.

Speaker 1 Sure. What's up?

Speaker 2 All right. So my question for you today is, is it okay for us to spend 28% of our take-home pay on our mortgage payment?

Speaker 1 Well, it's okay to do whatever you want to do. You're an adult.
I mean,

Speaker 1 it's not like

Speaker 1 you're breaking a law or something. We teach, apparently you realize, to keep your house payment around 25%, but 28% is kind of like 25%.
It's not the end of the world.

Speaker 1 The reason we teach that is that people go out and take, you know, 50% of their take-home pay, and then they call me up broke.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 1 And they're house poor.

Speaker 1 You know, 3%,

Speaker 1 you know, you know, that's like saying, okay, I'm not going to do Dave's 25%. I'm going to do 22% because that's going to guarantee I'm a millionaire in a year.
No, it's only 3%. It doesn't do it.

Speaker 1 And 3%'s not going to, the other way is not going to

Speaker 1 condemn you to death and

Speaker 1 hell and flames. Okay.

Speaker 1 3% is not that big a deal. As long as you get the concept.
Now, is this a 15-year?

Speaker 2 No, it's not. Not in Portland, Oregon.
Not going to be able to get it.

Speaker 1 They have 15-year mortgages in Portland, Oregon, all over the place.

Speaker 2 They do. That's true.

Speaker 1 They don't own the house you want to buy. Yeah.
So, no, I would not do that. Yeah.
Absolutely not going into debt for 30 years and using Portland, Oregon as my excuse. That's bull crap.
No.

Speaker 1 No. You're going to be in debt your whole life, girl, and that's not what we're signing you up for here.
We want you to be wealthy.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I don't want to be in debt my whole life either.

Speaker 1 Oh, you're signing up for it.

Speaker 2 It's just struggling with a three-year-old and a one-year-old and the house we're living in.

Speaker 1 Don't blame your children for your wants.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's true. That's true.
You want a house. You got house fever.
Take a cold shower.

Speaker 2 A bigger place to live.

Speaker 1 Yeah. You want a nicer house than 98% of the world's population lives in.

Speaker 1 It's true. Yeah.
It's okay. I want you to get a house.
I don't want your house to get you.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 That's all it is. Oh, by the way, let me ask you this.
When you say take-home pay, what else is coming out of that check?

Speaker 2 What else coming out of that check? So the, well, that's just after taxes.

Speaker 1 Okay, that's all I wanted. All right.
So it's not like you took a bunch of other stuff out that we could add back to help you with this formula.

Speaker 1 But no, I listen, you can do whatever you want, like we started the call with. You're like a grown adult and stuff.
You're allowed to. It's not against the law.
But I'm going to challenge your

Speaker 1 decision-making paradigm or framework that you're using that you can't do this in Portland, Oregon, and that it's for the children. Neither one of those are true statements.

Speaker 1 This is a house you want, and you're not an evil person for wanting a nice house. That's not the point either.
But

Speaker 1 we have to push the child that lives inside of us out of the cereal aisle and say, no, we can't live on lucky charms. We have to live on meat and taters.
That's the way it works, you know?

Speaker 1 And so that's that's what we've all got to do. And that's hard, Kelsey.
It's hard for me. It's hard for everybody else.

Speaker 1 I do want you to get a house, but I do not want your house to slow down your family's progress to cause instability rather than stability because you stretch and stretch and stretch and justify and rationalize.

Speaker 3 Yeah, and just to encourage you, Kelsey, I mean, I think everybody listening understands this desire to have a little bit bigger space, but the one and the three-year-old, I think is what you said.

Speaker 3 You just got to remind yourself sometimes, and Dave's right, you got house fever. We've all been through that before.
These kids don't need more space.

Speaker 3 The average American family has way more space and way more stuff in that space than they actually need.

Speaker 3 And so, this is about the long-term play: where do you want to be 20, 30 years from now, and what decisions that you're making right now are going to hamper or hold that vision back.

Speaker 3 And this is one of them: when you got too much house, this is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Thanks for joining us, America.
We're so glad you are here. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Kevin and Kelly are with us.

Speaker 1 Hey, guys, how are you? Good. How are you? Better than we deserve.
Where do you guys live? Grip the Mississippi, just a little north of Tupelo. Yeah, well, welcome up to Nashville.
Good to have you.

Speaker 1 And how much debt have you two paid off? $116,000. All right.
And how long did that take, sir? A year and 10 months. Wow, look at you.
Great job. And your range of income during that almost two years?

Speaker 1 We started out around $82,000 and ended at $107,000. Cool.
What do y'all do for a living? I'm a certified nurse's assistant.

Speaker 1 And I'm a land surveyor, do construction layout.

Speaker 1 Through this process, I actually got my surveying license during the paying off process. Ah, that helped the old income.
Yes, it did. Good for you.
Great career, both of them. Excellent job.

Speaker 1 What kind of debt was the $116,000? It was the house. You paid off your house.

Speaker 1 Looking at weirdos.

Speaker 1 You guys are weird. You have a paid-for house.
How old are you two weirdos? I'm 35. And I'm 37.
And you have a paid-for house. Way to go, guys.

Speaker 1 Oh, we're seeing a picture of of it pop up on YouTube here. Nice place.
What's that place worth?

Speaker 1 Around $290 now. Excellent.
Way to go, you guys. That's awesome.
Thank you. Look at those smiles.

Speaker 1 I love it, man. My house is paid for.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 A house is worth $300,000. How much is in your nest egg, your retirement savings? Oh, around $40 in mine.

Speaker 1 Probably about the same in hers, I would say. Probably.
Okay, so you're approaching the first half million. On your way to being millionaires by the time you're 40, probably.
Way to go, guys.

Speaker 1 Thank you. Proud of you.
Very cool. So what in the world caused all this? What happened? How did you get connected to this Ramsey stuff?

Speaker 1 Well, we've got some friends that live in North Carolina, Jim and Julie Sly, and she texted me on my 33rd birthday, and we just got to talking about kids. She had kids that were in college age.

Speaker 1 And she said, let me give you some advice on you need to be saving for college right now.

Speaker 1 And I told Kelly, I said, how can we save while we're this much deep in house debt? So we got to researching it, come across you. I kind of got on board with it.
And then she got on board with it.

Speaker 1 And then I couldn't get off board.

Speaker 1 Yeah, too late, right? Too late. Like, I was going to do most of it, but the credit card deal, I didn't have issues with credit cards, so I thought.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I said if we're going to do it, we need to do it right.

Speaker 1 So we got debit cards.

Speaker 1 cut up our credit cards, got debit cards, and you would be surprised.

Speaker 1 It makes a big difference when that money goes the minute you spend it. Yeah, you do spend it differently, don't you? You do.
Yeah. Way to go, you guys.
So proud of you.

Speaker 1 How does it feel to not have a payment in the world? We still don't really know. Yeah, it's unbelievable.

Speaker 3 Kevin, I'm curious for the broader audience, how much did it cost you and how much time did it take to level up? during this debt-free journey, if that's when you did it.

Speaker 3 And then that gave you some additional income. Give us the data on that.

Speaker 1 as far as like the yeah how long did it take you to get your life how much did it cost you to get that additional income it's a three-part test and you have to pass each part before you get to the next obviously and so I started applying probably before December of 23 I guess it was and I passed in October

Speaker 1 Well, that would have been December of 22, passed it in October of 23. So that long of a process to get through all three tests and get my income up.

Speaker 3 How much did it cost to actually do that?

Speaker 1 The cost of it, probably no more than $1,000 to $1,500 with test applications and the test fees.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 That's interesting.

Speaker 1 Cool, and it bumped your income a lot more than that. It did, yes.
It was something I've been putting off for years and should have just went and done it.

Speaker 1 And when she gave me that wake-up call, it really just kind of boosted our

Speaker 1 enthusiasm to do something. It's like I woke up when I turned 33 is what I tell people.

Speaker 1 And when Kelly cut up your credit card, you had to go get it and go to work, buddy. That's right.
That's right.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Definitely. I love it.
Way to go, you two. Who was cheering you on? Who was your good cheerleaders? Probably his parents most.
Yeah, my parents helped out a lot with

Speaker 1 discount daycare is what I call it.

Speaker 1 And then my boss, Andy, he was a big proponent. He was pushing your plan.
And he told me, he said, just do it. Just stick with it and do it.
And

Speaker 1 really, I've got so many people in our church that I can't even begin to name.

Speaker 1 One of my cousins, Jason, he's a great influence in my life and still is. And, I mean, just so many.
I can't even name all of them. Do you want to try to?

Speaker 1 Anybody tell you you were crazy?

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah. Oh, you had those two? Oh, yeah.
So you had both sides of the equation, right? Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
Yeah, okay. That's all right.
That's good.

Speaker 1 If broke people are making fun of your financial plan, you're right on track, man.

Speaker 1 I like it good for you guys well done well done all right now you're the other side of it you got a paid-for three hundred thousand dollar house

Speaker 1 what do you tell people the key to doing that is what's the key to getting out of debt um you got to stick together and um stick with the budget and um live low your means

Speaker 1 yeah you really got to just get to the point where you don't care what people think of you yeah

Speaker 1 there was something else i was going to bring out through this process. We started really getting serious, cut up the credit cards around October of 22.
Is that right?

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 by December of 22,

Speaker 1 she started eating right, exercising.

Speaker 1 I wasn't into that. So she told me, she said, you've got to start doing better because you're making it hard on me.

Speaker 1 So that got me in gear. And through this whole process, I shed off 65 pounds.
My goodness. Yeah, I've i've lost about 70.
and you lost 70 yes wow good

Speaker 1 i mean between the two of you you lost a backstreet boy

Speaker 1 wow i lost uh 26 of my body weight goodness

Speaker 1 you know discipline begets discipline it does when i can when i find out i can control something then i find out i can control something else

Speaker 1 that has to do with the mirror right you know yeah way to go you two dave dave you've taught people for a long time rice and beans, beans and rice, but you guys went a different direction.

Speaker 3 We're like, we want to get healthy and debt-free.

Speaker 1 That's extraordinary. When you look at it as though you have bitten off more than you can chew financially and physically,

Speaker 1 it applies both ways. You have to give it to you.

Speaker 3 I like what you did there. That'll preach right there.

Speaker 1 I saw that. I saw that move.
That was a good move. Nice dance move.
Yep.

Speaker 3 Mad respect on that. That was well done.

Speaker 1 Excellent, you two. Wow, that's amazing.
And in both cases, you'll never go back. I sure hope not.

Speaker 1 Physically or financially?

Speaker 1 Physcally or physically. Either way.
Yeah, that's right. Way to go, y'all.
That's so impressive. Yeah, really impressive.
Very neat. Very neat.

Speaker 1 So you tell people the key to getting out of debt is what again?

Speaker 1 Consistency. Consistency.
And both of us being on the same page because I would have bailed ship a long time before the end if if she hadn't been.

Speaker 1 Well, like you said, you got her started and then she wouldn't let you quit.

Speaker 1 That's it. I got it.
I got that. That was good.
Very good job, you guys. And you've got how many kiddos? Got three.
Three? Are they all with you or just this one? They are all three with you.

Speaker 1 Okay, let's get them up here and let's get their names and ages, please. This is Kason.
He is three. Three.

Speaker 3 And Kaylee, she's two. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 And Kyla is seven. All right.
I got to tell you what, you changed their family tree.

Speaker 1 They don't know it yet because they're too young that their mom and dad just completely changed everything for them. Not only health-wise, but financial health as well.
Way to go.

Speaker 1 All right, Kevin and Kelly, Tupelo, Mississippi area. 116,000 paid off.
House and everything.

Speaker 1 140 pounds lost. Did all this in one year and 10 months, making 82 to 107? Count it down.
Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, three, two,

Speaker 1 one.

Speaker 1 We're dead-free.

Speaker 1 oh my

Speaker 1 goodness

Speaker 3 that's amazing ken really extraordinary the parallels between getting their financial life and their physical life under control really amazing same problem guy in my mirror

Speaker 1 same solution guy in my mirror this is the ramsey show

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Abby's in Boston. Hi, Abby.

Speaker 1 Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 2 Hi, how are you?

Speaker 1 Better than I deserve. What's up?

Speaker 2 So, I'm wondering if it would be worthwhile to pursue a paid leave of absence from my job or just to walk away altogether.

Speaker 3 Okay, give us your current pros and cons for walking away altogether.

Speaker 2 Cons, it's an hour commute

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 1 I

Speaker 2 my father is sick, so that's another con

Speaker 2 being far away if something were to happen with him.

Speaker 1 So the reason you want to do this is you want to be able to go be near him.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 In either case.

Speaker 1 Okay. But if you walk away.
Okay, go ahead.

Speaker 3 What are the pros to walking away and we're walking away from that income?

Speaker 2 I don't always get along with one of my bosses.

Speaker 1 Neither does Ken. He's sitting here.

Speaker 1 That's awesome. Yeah, it's not a good reason.

Speaker 3 So what are you walking to?

Speaker 3 I understand your father, and that's a legit personal reason to try to figure out if I should make a change in my life with the job being an hour away, et cetera, et cetera.

Speaker 3 But what are you walking to if you were to walk away?

Speaker 3 And I'm talking about income. Do you have another job lined up or some prospects, ideas?

Speaker 2 I don't have a job lined up. However, I know I could get another position in the industry.

Speaker 3 Listen, I love your confidence, but I'm not going to walk away from a full-time income, especially when I need it. And I presume that you need it.
You can't have an interruption in pay.

Speaker 3 I'm not going to leave one place to be closer to my dad and all these changes you need to make without having something already lined up.

Speaker 1 Why don't you just go get the other job? Yeah.

Speaker 2 I'm afraid that if I were to start a new job,

Speaker 2 I would it would start off on a bad foot already because I'm going to have to take time off, not just because of my father, but because I

Speaker 2 was diagnosed with something as well.

Speaker 3 Okay, so you okay, this is new information. So you have some health concerns.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's it's a new occurrence.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 3 And you know for a fact your current company is offering you the paid leave option to try to get healthy?

Speaker 2 No,

Speaker 1 no, they're not.

Speaker 3 Okay, well then actually. But you presented that as a, should I take paid leave or should I walk away completely? But paid leave is not an option.

Speaker 2 I'm under the impression that it's not up to the employer. It would be up to the state.

Speaker 1 Okay. But we have some.

Speaker 3 That's fair. You got me there.
But I'm saying we have certainty. I don't feel that we have certainty right now.
Philly, you're like, I'm under the impression that the state would give me.

Speaker 3 I need some certainty on that before I would take that option.

Speaker 1 Wait a minute. Wait a minute.
Wait a minute.

Speaker 1 I think you're confused. I don't think the state of Massachusetts requires an employer to give you paid leave.

Speaker 1 The federal government has

Speaker 1 required to give you time off unpaid and hold the position for you. That's a federal law for a family situation or for a health situation.

Speaker 1 Family Leave Act, the Family Leave Act is a federal law, but it doesn't require paid.

Speaker 2 Yes, I understand. Yep.

Speaker 1 And I don't think Massachusetts requires paid.

Speaker 2 I'm okay. Massachusetts is a it's a

Speaker 2 that's a made up location. I didn't want to do my real location.

Speaker 1 I don't think any state requires paid leave.

Speaker 2 Oh, even if you were to apply and you were qualified?

Speaker 1 Apply with who?

Speaker 1 Do you work for the state?

Speaker 2 No, no, I don't. So just for example, my father, he has cancer.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 2 we applied for temporary disability insurance through the state that we live in.

Speaker 1 Right. That's not paid leave.
That's disability insurance.

Speaker 1 Oh, okay.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 And you don't get disability insurance for him unless you can prove you are disabled, then

Speaker 1 you might get some disability insurance. Are you disabled?

Speaker 2 No, I understand. Yeah, no, it's kind of two separate things.
My diagnosis came after my father's situation.

Speaker 2 And when my father got diagnosed,

Speaker 1 I

Speaker 2 took a lot of time off of work.

Speaker 2 And then my situation came up after.

Speaker 1 I got it. So it just kind of piled on.
Yeah, I got you. I'm just wondering.

Speaker 1 Is your diagnosis going to cause you to be declared disabled?

Speaker 1 Maybe. I don't know.

Speaker 2 It's breast cancer, so I don't know.

Speaker 1 Okay. I'm sorry, hun.
Boy, you guys got you got a lot going on.

Speaker 1 Cancer, cancer with both of you. Oh, my gosh.
I'm so sorry.

Speaker 1 And you're an hour and a half away from work. Your dad is.
And is your dad's prognosis,

Speaker 1 I mean, what are they saying about him? Is this terminal or what?

Speaker 2 Yes, he's currently on hospice.

Speaker 1 Oh, actually. Oh, my gosh.

Speaker 1 So how much longer do you think he has on?

Speaker 2 A couple months if I'm lucky.

Speaker 1 Okay. I'm so sorry.

Speaker 2 Thank you.

Speaker 2 I think I'm just being stubborn and trying to cite the principle, I guess.

Speaker 2 But maybe it's not worth it. But that's why I felt...

Speaker 1 I don't know about what I don't know what's not worth it. It's worth it to get to spend some time with your dad, and it's worth it to take care of your health.

Speaker 1 I don't have any problem with any of that.

Speaker 1 And if that means you walk away from this job, if you've got a way to eat.

Speaker 1 over the next two months while you get some care and you provide some care to your dad in his last time here, I think that's a wonderful move.

Speaker 1 Do you have a way to eat?

Speaker 1 I do, yes. Okay, so you've got some money coming in or a place to get some money or whatever.

Speaker 1 If you can do all of that and then just get you another job after all the, after, you know, a year from now, your cancer has been treated and your dad's thing has run its course and you're resetting your life a year from now and you get a new job and you move on, I got no issue with that at all.

Speaker 1 I just want want to be sure you're in the okay in the middle of this okay

Speaker 2 you know um i play house as you would call it so

Speaker 1 um

Speaker 3 you're living with someone is that what you're saying yeah

Speaker 3 so he's supporting you financially

Speaker 1 yes

Speaker 1 okay well then then you're okay yeah that's yeah i i don't i don't see any reason that you have to stay in this position um if they want to give you paid leave and that's something they offer as an employee benefit, that would be awesomeness.

Speaker 1 But I think you're out of there and you've got to take care of your daddy and take care of you is what it sounds to me like, kiddo. I'm so sorry.
What a tough, tough situation.

Speaker 1 This is the Ramsey Show.