YOU Are The Only One Responsible for Your Financial Future

Speaker 1 Welcome to the Ramsey Show, where we help you win in your life. We're going to help you win with your money, win in your work, and win with your relationships.
Triple 8-825-5225 is the phone number.

Speaker 1 888-825-5225 will get you in. I'm Ken Ken Coleman.
George Camill is with me. We are affectionately known by many of you out there, certainly on social media, as the root beer float.
And George

Speaker 1 believes he's the root beer and I'm the vanilla ice cream.

Speaker 1 I take issue with that, but that is what I think. Depends on the day.
Depends on the day. We'll see.
So we will see what happens today. I can tell you this.

Speaker 1 He and I actually do enjoy being together and we love coaching people up. We try to have fun while we do it.
So this is not your boring money show. I promise you that.

Speaker 1 Robert starts us off this hour in Los Angeles, California. Robert, how can we help today?

Speaker 3 Hey, thanks for taking my call. I really appreciate

Speaker 3 this time. I was calling because I had a family member recently request a loan from me in the amount of about $20,000.

Speaker 3 And so I started digging into it a little bit. And it looks like they got suckered into some type of investment.
I hesitate to say scam, but it looks like they have lost about $60,000. and

Speaker 3 they are requesting this loan in order to be able to withdraw the funds.

Speaker 3 The brokerage that they are working with has said that they need about 30% of the amount that they've put in in order to allow them to withdraw the $50,000 that is, or $60,000 that is locked up in that account.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's not happening.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's a complete and utter scam.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So, what'd you say?

Speaker 3 Well, I said I wanted to look into it a little bit more, and so we dug into how the

Speaker 3 basically how all the accounts and everything were connected together, and it ended up getting paid out of a crypto wallet. And so there's no way that you can

Speaker 3 basically file for fraud claims. And I just

Speaker 3 feel horrible,

Speaker 3 but they're still kind of under the impression that this is going to be okay if they just put in another 20 grand. And

Speaker 1 i just can't um i don't know it's so what's your question uh what's your question for us

Speaker 3 i mean uh should i should i give them i mean

Speaker 1 it sounds like a scam no do not give them what do y'all think what do you think what was your answer before you called us

Speaker 3 well i it's just i hate saying

Speaker 3 I hate saying no to family and I just feel really bad about it and I don't like lending money to begin with and yet not the money and yet you're and yet you're feeling bad about this all you need to say is no no I'm not doing that how close is this family member

Speaker 1 it's a parent oh boy

Speaker 2 well if it's my parent it's a very different conversation no it's not well it's it's much more hey mom dad I will not allow you to be a part of this scam anymore if it's a cousin I'm going hey you do you well I appreciate that George but you can't say that to mom and dad because he can't allow them to do anything he can say I am not going to participate in this because this is an absolute scam.

Speaker 1 And what you're asking me to do, mom or dad, is to burn $20,000.

Speaker 1 And I did my homework on this. This is a scam.
I'm not going to give you $20,000 to be completely ripped off. The answer is no.
I'm so sorry.

Speaker 1 I'm happy to walk you through my answer on this, but I don't think it changes. The answer is no, because then you're going to resent them.
Do you want to resent them?

Speaker 3 No, I really don't.

Speaker 3 I just don't know how to respectfully, I mean, I really want to respectfully talk to my parents in a way that helps them, but it just, I mean, it's not.

Speaker 1 I just told you.

Speaker 2 Was that too harsh?

Speaker 3 No, I think you're right. It's just

Speaker 2 the respect is, is you explain to them, I love you too much to see you continually get scammed.

Speaker 1 But wait a second. I appreciate that, George.
But no, he gets scammed. If Robert gives them 20,

Speaker 2 he's getting scammed. The money part's part's gone.
We're not even dealing with giving you.

Speaker 1 Nobody wants to be respectful. I feel like you're more respectful than I am, George.
I don't know. I feel like I laid it out there.

Speaker 2 I'm trying to think if my mom or dad was going through this, I would have a real hard conversation.

Speaker 1 What would you say to your mom and dad? I know your mom and dad. They're nice people.

Speaker 2 Very kind. I would say, you can do what you want.
You were grown adults, but I know with 100% confidence, this is a scam. Right.
And you need to cut your losses now before you continually lose money.

Speaker 2 I don't want to see you guys enable

Speaker 1 and as to the $20,000 they asked from you.

Speaker 2 Well, how do you address that? I will not enable this behavior and I don't want to be a part of this scam. Because if I give 20 grand, it then gets disappeared to scammers.
Now I'm complicit.

Speaker 1 We're back. I'm an accomplice.
Yeah, we're back to square one.

Speaker 2 So this is not going to be fun. Do you think they're going to, are they going to be angry with you if you don't give them the 20 grand?

Speaker 3 I mean, we've had a couple conversations about it. I think the issue is

Speaker 3 I make a fairly good income right now. I have about $125,000 a year income.
I've got the money and they know I have the money

Speaker 3 and they've been out of work for a little while and I just feel horrible because

Speaker 3 I think a lot of this is on credit. I don't know how much of the money that they've put in is on credit, but in order for them to, I imagine it's somewhere in the $25,000, $30,000 range.

Speaker 3 And I don't know how they've managed to pull that off, but I just feel horrible and I'd like to help them dig out that.

Speaker 1 I just want to make sure that you're not going to so the way you answer is not by giving money. And you didn't answer George's question.
Yes or no?

Speaker 1 Are they going to get mad at you if you tell them no?

Speaker 3 I hope not. I hope not.

Speaker 3 I don't think it would ruin the relationship.

Speaker 1 Okay. But the other question I have for a little bit.
Let me switch gears real quick because George is a little bit more adept at this stuff. At least I think you are.

Speaker 2 It's very kind to assume that.

Speaker 1 Thank you. I don't know why I'm thanking you.

Speaker 1 Robert, listen in here. Is there a way for Robert to get on the phone with this crypto company and just kind of play a little John Wayne here?

Speaker 1 Like, hey, I'm the son, and this is what my mom or dad is telling me. This is a scam.
I'm coming after you. I'm going to blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 1 Is there any chance that he at least gets on there and kind of says, they're not giving you money. Give them the money they gave to you.
Give it to them. Give it back.

Speaker 1 You don't need another deposit or whatever this weird deal is. Is that even a worth a college try?

Speaker 2 I feel like it is. I don't know that scammers would be very complicit in allowing, oh, well, never mind.

Speaker 1 As soon as you pushed a little bit,

Speaker 2 I think he's going to have trouble getting in touch with anyone. I doubt there's a phone number to call.
I doubt there's an email to get in touch with these people.

Speaker 1 Robert, what do you know, having done some research on these folks?

Speaker 3 Yeah, so having looked into them a little bit, it looks like there's a couple of ways to get in touch with them, but most of them are encrypted messaging apps like WhatsApp or something like that.

Speaker 1 So it's not a legitimate. If it's on WhatsApp, you're a scammer.

Speaker 2 No legitimate company says, hey, reach out to us on WhatsApp.

Speaker 2 that's a great point all right well so much for that i was trying to give you some hope yeah but you i would do some digging on the internet and find out stories of people getting scammed from this exact company i would file complaint with the ftc uh cfpb all of the legitimate agencies that deal with these kind of scams pb and j don't pb and j even report it to them all and then say hey mom dad listen This is not just me talking.

Speaker 2 I'm trying to spare you from more harm to your financial life. And if it hurts the relationship, you know, the old famous quote, choose guilt over resentment.

Speaker 2 I'd rather you be guilty that you didn't give than be resentful because you gave and you saw them continually burn holes in their bank accounts.

Speaker 1 That's tough. You know, George,

Speaker 1 I feel so bad for his parents, been out of work for a while in the get-rich-quick schemes. This is where

Speaker 1 all of this happens.

Speaker 2 They're looking for a way out and they think this will be it. They said if I give them 50, they'll turn it into 100.
Right.

Speaker 2 And it's gone.

Speaker 2 Heartbreaking. I'm so sorry, Robert, but you can't control the people.
The best you can do is warn them with all the data and passion that you can.

Speaker 1 If you're desperate right now, financially, get my boy George's book, Breaking Free from Broke. Get it right now, ramseysolutions.com.
It'll help guard you from this stuff. Please, he warns you.

Speaker 1 He'll take care of you. But if you're broke, hang tight.
Get George's book. We'll be right back.
This is The Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman.
I'm alongside the one, the only George Camill. He is without comparison, folks.
That's just all I'll say. Wow.

Speaker 1 And he is our resident money expert today. He'll help you figure out what to do with it.
I'm going to help you earn more of it. How about that?

Speaker 1 So you got the guy who wants to help you make more money and the guy who tells you what to do with the money. That's quite a combo.

Speaker 2 Winning team.

Speaker 1 And I see you got one of your nicer jackets on today.

Speaker 2 It's a sportsman varsity jacket, I think is what they say.

Speaker 1 Is that what it's called?

Speaker 2 I don't know. I was hoping you could tell me.

Speaker 1 That's no varsity jacket.

Speaker 1 It's missing the leather sleeves and the letterman. Do you even know what it means to letter in a second?

Speaker 2 I never made the team can. I think that's pretty obvious.

Speaker 1 I know. No one is shocked by that at all, but we still love you, George.
Thank you. And you are our coach today.
So where's the whistle? Let's just give you a whistle

Speaker 1 and a hat.

Speaker 2 Whistles are obtrusive.

Speaker 1 They might be. Jim is up next in Little Rock, Arkansas.
Jim, how can we help today?

Speaker 3 Hi, how are you doing? Yeah, I'm calling because our church is expanding. We're adding on to the building, taking out a loan.

Speaker 3 Our church collects decent offerings every week and month, but they want some guarantors to co-sign for the loan.

Speaker 1 So how big is the loan?

Speaker 3 The loan is going to be about $3 million.

Speaker 1 And what kind of

Speaker 1 church offerings?

Speaker 3 The church offerings are about $15,000 every week.

Speaker 3 The loan amount would be like $17,000 a month.

Speaker 1 So they want you to take personal risk

Speaker 2 for a $3 million loan?

Speaker 3 A few of the members asked in a few weeks.

Speaker 1 Are you on the leadership team?

Speaker 3 Yes, I am.

Speaker 1 Well, how do you feel about this?

Speaker 3 I'm not at peace about it. That's why I call it, to be honest with you.
We have some people that have done it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I wouldn't do it.

Speaker 1 I wouldn't do it.

Speaker 3 I guess I'm just kind of shocked that they would ask that.

Speaker 1 I agree.

Speaker 2 That's a very uncomfortable position to put you in.

Speaker 1 The church should never have to ask individuals to be guarantors on that. If the church can't service that loan, I don't know what they're thinking.

Speaker 2 So, yeah, the reason they need the guarantor is because the lender doesn't believe the church has the finances to pay the loan.

Speaker 2 That should be red flag number one. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Waiving in the win.

Speaker 2 And number two, if I'm part of this church board, I'm going to say, what would it take to cash flow this through

Speaker 2 a giving through the church?

Speaker 1 Who's driving this?

Speaker 1 Who's driving

Speaker 1 this expansion idea?

Speaker 1 Is it the pastor?

Speaker 3 It's a combination.

Speaker 3 Pastors and leaders.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but I mean, come on. Who's the real cheerleader? You know the answer.
Who is it?

Speaker 1 The pastor. Yeah, that's what I thought.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he needs to cool his jets. The answer is no.

Speaker 1 I wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole. And by the way, you felt that way before you called us.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I'm just calling for some confirmation. I just make sure I could.

Speaker 1 Your gut's right.

Speaker 1 This is a, listen, I come from the church world. I was raised in the church.
My dad was a church planner.

Speaker 1 My dad didn't do what this pastor's doing, but I've seen it. You know, growth is exciting.
Hey, we want to do this. We want to grow.
And I believe the pastor's heart's in the right place.

Speaker 1 But he's got building fever, and it's an easy thing to happen. And it's just like anything else.

Speaker 1 He, as a pastor, is not immune from the idea of being tempted, you know, to buy a bigger house, George, or to buy some land and build the dream home well before you're ready to do so.

Speaker 1 He's not immune from that. And that's what this is.
He shouldn't be putting pressure as a leader on people in the church to personally guarantee what the church needs to handle on their own.

Speaker 1 So that's for that reason, George. We're out.
We're out. So there you go.
Let's go to Morgan in Cleveland, Ohio. Morgan, how can we help?

Speaker 1 Hey, how's it going, guys? Good. How are you?

Speaker 3 I'm great. Thank you so much for taking my call.
I recently experienced a pretty big increase in my income. I am a student, and I've moved from an hourly wage to kind of a higher salary.

Speaker 3 And I'm a bit overwhelmed about what to do with it and how to manage it responsibly. I was wondering if you have any advice for a student on, do I buy a house or invest? Or I have no idea what to do.

Speaker 1 Wow, congrats.

Speaker 2 So, what were you making, and what do you make now?

Speaker 3 Um, so I was making the most I've ever made is about twenty dollars an hour, and my new salary is two hundred ten thousand dollars a year.

Speaker 1 Whoa, so you hold on 5x your income,

Speaker 2 you went from like 40 grand to 210.

Speaker 1 Tell us really quickly in 20 seconds what happened.

Speaker 3 Um, I'm a law student, and I just got really um, I got decent grades and I landed a job being a big deal.

Speaker 1 Good for you. So

Speaker 1 you've already taken the firm job. You got the big job.

Speaker 3 So this will be for next summer. So I'd be a summer associate.
But after that, hopefully the plan is that they'd hire me back.

Speaker 3 I've pretty consistently, they hired those individuals back and they train you over the summer.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 3 So I will receive this pro-rated

Speaker 3 next summer.

Speaker 1 Okay, so it's a pro-rated. It's not like you've signed on and you're now going going to be making $210,000 over the next 12 months.

Speaker 3 I will after I graduate, so that'll be in a year.

Speaker 1 Okay, gotcha. So it's locked in.

Speaker 2 Okay, gotcha. But you know this is coming, that potentially a year from now, you'll five extra income, and you're going, what do I do?

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 2 Yes. Do you have any debt from law school?

Speaker 3 No, I was very fortunate to have a good scholarship.

Speaker 1 Wow. Good one.

Speaker 2 Well, you worked your butt off for it. It wasn't luck.

Speaker 1 I appreciate that. That's awesome.
So no debt at all?

Speaker 1 No debt at all. No car loan, no credit cards.

Speaker 1 How much fun are you going to have with this?

Speaker 2 This catapulted your future. Do you have anything in savings right now?

Speaker 3 I have about $100,000 in savings.

Speaker 1 Who are you? Is this a prank call, Morgan? Be honest. Morgan, are you a real person?

Speaker 3 I am.

Speaker 3 Actually, I wanted to thank you guys because my parents actually, I'm sure they would be shocked that I'm calling the show right now, but they listened to Dave Ramsey growing up and the whole show, they like went to his event.

Speaker 3 They wanted to thank him. They didn't get the opportunity.

Speaker 1 So I will

Speaker 1 work for them, but

Speaker 2 the best thank you is following the plan and living it out and changing your family tree. And your parents have done that.
You're doing that. Wow.
100 grand saved. No date.

Speaker 3 They paid off their house. So they want to thank you as well.

Speaker 1 Look at that.

Speaker 2 Incredible family. Okay.
So if I'm in your shoes, my next goal would likely be to purchase a home once I have that stable, big income. So what does your living situation look like right now?

Speaker 3 Right now I'm in an apartment. I pay about $1,000 a month.

Speaker 3 I'm right next to my law school, blockable. And

Speaker 3 yeah, that's about it.

Speaker 1 Is the firm in the same area where you're going to school now?

Speaker 3 It's not. I will have to move.

Speaker 3 I have a place rented out for the summer already that I've paid for for next summer. But that's about $1,000 as well, $1,000 a month.

Speaker 1 George, what I was going to suggest here, and I'll stay out of of the way here, let you keep going, but I wonder if she doesn't rent for at least six months, maybe 12 months, once she lands in this new metropolitan area or wherever she's going to be.

Speaker 2 Even if you want to rent for two years and continue stacking up cash.

Speaker 1 Depending on how big a home she's going to get.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I don't know what your area is like, but I mean, how cool of a goal would it be to say, I'm going to keep living how I've been living and this extra, you know, what, 150 grand, I'm going to just sock away into savings.

Speaker 2 And after two years, I'm going to have a few extra hundred grand.

Speaker 3 Well, I think that's what I'm wondering is

Speaker 3 I mean, I know nothing about houses. I've never looked to buy a house.
I don't know if that's a terrible idea. I should be investing and just keep living kind of frugally.
Or

Speaker 1 the good news is you can do both.

Speaker 2 So in the baby steps, you would be at baby steps four,

Speaker 2 you could call it 3B, where you're saving up for the home down payment. And many people choose to invest that 15% into retirement from their income.
And so you can do that now, depending on what

Speaker 2 retirement options you have through your employer. You could always open a Roth IRA and fully fund that through your income.
And then as you make more, that 15% chunk gets larger.

Speaker 2 You know, 15% of 200 grand is way more than 40. And so as you do that, you're going to continue to build wealth.

Speaker 2 Any money beyond that, let's stack away in a high-yield savings account and maybe get a house in the next two years. And maybe you could even pay cash.

Speaker 3 Yeah, that's an overwhelming thought.

Speaker 1 And here's the deal.

Speaker 2 You don't have to do this alone.

Speaker 2 If you jump onto ramseysolutions.com, click on trusted services, and you can get connected with a real estate agent that is Ramsey Trusted that will help you walk through this home ownership journey.

Speaker 2 And I think that's the next step for a young gal who's crushing it. And beyond that, enjoy some of it.
Give some of it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And I just want to say, Morgan, I know you're doing such a great job out on your own, but your mom and dad have taught you right. They've done it the right way.
Call mom and dad.

Speaker 1 You're not alone on this deal. They're going to walk you through.

Speaker 1 They're solid people. And so you've got the best bench that you could possibly want helping coach you as you enter into life.
Thanks for the call, Morgan. You're a superstar.
This is The Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman.
George Camill is my partner today and we are here for you, America. Triple 8-825-5225 is the phone number.

Speaker 1 One of our favorite things to do on the program is when we have folks come in live here in our lobby, just across the way from our studio right now.

Speaker 1 And we are looking at another fantastic young couple here to do their debt-free scream. Garrett and Tisha, welcome.
Hello. Thanks for having us.

Speaker 1 All right, so you guys ready to go for the debt-free scream? You're all fired up. What's your nervous level on a scale of one to 10? One being no nerves, 10 being freaked out?

Speaker 1 Like a one, maybe. Wow, you don't hear that very often.

Speaker 2 They do seem calm.

Speaker 1 Notice that Tisha's the one that said that. Garrett was unable to answer.
He's so uptight. He's choked up.
Yeah, he's calm. I'm a three.
A three. Okay, good.
Well, this is exciting.

Speaker 1 Where are you guys from? West Fargo, North Dakota. West Fargo.
Okay, very nice.

Speaker 1 All right, so how much debt? Give us the data. How much debt did you pay off and how long? The last five years, we've paid off $200,000.
Wow, $200,000 in five years.

Speaker 1 And what was the range of income in that time? Between $90,000 and $130,000. Oh, cool.
What'd you do to bump it up to $130,000?

Speaker 1 Just raises.

Speaker 2 What do you guys do? Just life.

Speaker 4 Just life.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it just happened. It was exciting.
So what do you guys do?

Speaker 4 I'm a social worker. Okay.

Speaker 1 I work with people with disabilities. Okay, great.
Fantastic. Love that.
Both working with people all the time.

Speaker 2 Love that. What kind of debt was the 200?

Speaker 1 It was our mortgage. Whoa.
Whoa. All 200.
Yep.

Speaker 2 Yep. Oh, my goodness.
That is a weird thing to do in today's day and it really is.

Speaker 1 What's the house worth, you think? About $250. Okay.
Awesome. So what happened five years ago when you guys decide one day to pay off your house?

Speaker 4 Yeah, so it started even a little bit before that. We started our debt-free journey in February of 2017,

Speaker 4 and we just started attacking our consumer debt, and in 2019, paid off $75,000 of consumer debt, and we're actually on the show in September of 2019 to do our debt-free scream just for our consumer debt.

Speaker 1 So this is your second one?

Speaker 4 This is our second one.

Speaker 1 This explains the nerve situation. Don't talk about comeback.
Because

Speaker 1 you guys have done this before. This is old hat.
Yeah. Oh, that makes sense.
The old twofer.

Speaker 2 So tell us the difference you feel from paying off consumer debt to now paying off the mortgage. How would you explain both of those experiences?

Speaker 1 It's a lot more relaxed.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we were gazelle-intense, you know, for those first few years and extra jobs and and all of that. And now the last five, it's been a lot more relaxed, able to enjoy life

Speaker 1 a little bit more. Wow.

Speaker 2 I mean, you guys are still hustling here. Just based on napkin math, we're talking like 60 grand a year going toward the mortgage.
How'd you do that?

Speaker 1 A little less than that, but yeah, just every penny, every dollar that we had extra always went to the mortgage. Wow.

Speaker 1 This is okay. Now, this is interesting because you just shared with the audience that this is your second time around.
You paid off all the other debt.

Speaker 1 And I'm guessing that was fairly intense as well. That was.

Speaker 4 Okay. That's when it was really gazelle intense.
Like we weren't doing anything fun, anything extra. And then once that was done, we could.

Speaker 1 So what was the timeline like when you finished all the consumer debt to then tackling the house? Was it a one-month, two-month layoff?

Speaker 4 I feel like it was a couple of months. We got back, you know, we left here, got back to town and started

Speaker 4 putting more

Speaker 4 into our savings account and working on that and then immediately just attacking the house with everything that we had extra.

Speaker 1 Wow. But you still had a little bit of fun with this time.
We did.

Speaker 4 We actually went out to eat a little bit more and bought some fun things here and there.

Speaker 1 Wild. Yeah, I know.
Absolutely wild.

Speaker 2 So we talk about moving from intentionality, intensity to intentionality, and that's what you guys did in this phase. We're so proud of you.
That's amazing. Do you guys have cheerleaders?

Speaker 2 Like, were people looking at you weird for paying off your mortgage?

Speaker 2 Yeah. Did anyone know what was even happening?

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah. Everybody knew.
We love to talk about it. That's one of our motivators, I guess.
It keeps us going, being able to talk about it.

Speaker 2 You got to be accountable. You tell everyone now.
They're going, hey, how's that mortgage doing? You're like, we're knocking it out.

Speaker 1 We're on it. And here you are.

Speaker 2 We've been our biggest.

Speaker 2 cheerleaders because we talk about it every day and then every day having a little one now she's she's always yelling at us cheering us on oh we're seeing the photo here if you're watching on the app or YouTube.

Speaker 2 That's amazing. So what was the why behind this?

Speaker 4 I think, I mean, it changed over the course of time.

Speaker 4 You know, right away, when it was just us, it was we wanted to provide for each other safety and security and just have, you know, have no debt and just feel free.

Speaker 4 And then as our daughter Penelope was born, it changed. And then she really became the why.
We want her to never experience debt and have parents be free and have financial peace.

Speaker 4 That way we can be more relaxed, calm parents and give her the world.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I'm just curious, is there any way of describing what it felt like to make the last payment?

Speaker 4 For me, it didn't set in making the last payment. Like we went to the bank, we paid it off, and I was like, okay, that feels good.
It was when we got paid next.

Speaker 4 And that money was just ours, and we could do what we want.

Speaker 1 Like, I was like, oh, my gosh.

Speaker 2 I love that. So that's what it gets real yeah it just sits in the bank account instead of going back out to lenders yep what what's like the first big thing you did or you're going to do

Speaker 2 this this was yeah yeah a little trip to nashville yep yeah but you guys are super young you got you know you got what 30 more years of a working career yep what are you gonna do now you got no payments in the world well the next step is save to be a millionaire so there we go are you you guys are on the path i'm guessing you've been investing along the way yep you've got a paid for two hundred fifty

Speaker 2 house, so you're probably at least halfway there.

Speaker 1 What's your net worth, do you think? It's just under five.

Speaker 2 Amazing. Yep.

Speaker 4 We kind of feel like 2030, we might be that millionaire status. I love it.

Speaker 2 Wow. We're going to gift you guys two every dollar premium subscriptions.
And inside of that, there's a great tool called Financial Roadmap.

Speaker 2 It'll actually show you exactly what your millionaire date's going to be. It's a fun milestone to celebrate.
And you'll just be getting started at that point. Very cool.

Speaker 2 I mean, you'll blink and you'll be there. So, yeah, that's for you.
You can give it to someone else to kickstart their journey.

Speaker 2 Someone who's been maybe inquisitive, going, Hey, tell me more about this. How are you guys actually doing this?

Speaker 2 Maybe a co-worker who's been a little skeptical.

Speaker 2 Were there any haters along the way? Because people are going, why would you pay off a low-interest mortgage? What are they thinking?

Speaker 1 There's been a few. Our neighbor,

Speaker 1 car salesman,

Speaker 1 they've called it out. That's the class.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. I love the neighbor giving you a hard time.
It's pretty great.

Speaker 1 Did you do the old run run out in the yard with the shoes off now that it paid off? Or are you waiting for the snow to do some snow angels? You poor.

Speaker 1 We've been out with the girl.

Speaker 4 Yep.

Speaker 1 So fun.

Speaker 1 That's fun. It does feel different.
It does? Yep. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I mean, you feel the financial peace just emanating off of them.

Speaker 1 It's beautiful. Yeah, you really do.
So fun. All right, well, let's do this.
Let's get the

Speaker 1 sweet little princess in here. Her name is

Speaker 1 Penelope. Penelope.
That's a great name, by the way.

Speaker 2 I love that. And how old is Penelope now?

Speaker 1 She is

Speaker 1 20 months. Wow.
Beautiful red hair, too. Thank you.

Speaker 2 She'll get to look back at this YouTube video one day and go,

Speaker 2 that's how my mom and dad changed my family tree.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, that's right. And she'll probably roll her eyes that you didn't do something right, mom or dad, and the scream and the, you know, the, the, the, the, you picked that dress for me.
Yes.

Speaker 1 Yeah, welcome to being a teenager. That'll happen, but you guys are great parents.
This little one has no idea how you have paved the way for her prosperity as well. So such a great story.

Speaker 1 Really, really fun. All right, we've got Garrett and Tisha.
Am I saying that right? Tisha. Tisha, see, I forgot in five minutes.
Tisha, along with little Penelope from West Fargo, North Dakota.

Speaker 1 They paid off $200,000. That is the house, by the way, in their second debt-free journey in five years, making $90,000 to $130,000.
Let's hear your debt-free scream. You ready?

Speaker 2 Three, two, one.

Speaker 1 We're debt-free.

Speaker 1 I love it. it.
Hell yay. Penelope's clapping as well.
We got her excited. Oh, my goodness.
She is so sweet. She's smiling.
She's debt-free, and she doesn't even know it. How fun is that?

Speaker 1 It's incredible.

Speaker 2 So they started the journey February 2017, paying off consumer debt, and here we stand, 2024, house paid off and everything. That's a seven-year journey to completely transform their financial lives.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So for everyone listening out there who thinks, you can't do this, are you willing to commit for seven years? That could change everything.
That could change the next 30, 40, 50 years.

Speaker 2 Could change generations that come after you? That's pretty wild to think about. Sounds like a long time.
They're still young. They're still with it.

Speaker 2 And they got the rest of their life with no payments. That's a dream worth chasing.

Speaker 1 Folks, I can't add anything to that. Coach George with the locker room talk today.

Speaker 1 We'll be right back. This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman.
George Campbell is my partner in crime today, and we are here for you, America. We want to coach you up to win with your money.

Speaker 1 That's a budget, that's saving, that's investing.

Speaker 1 And then it's all about making the maximum income that you can make so that you can actually build wealth.

Speaker 1 And so that's what George and I specialize in today, winning with your paycheck and winning with that budget. So let's get right to it.
888-825-5225. Triple 8-825-5225.

Speaker 1 Shuby is up next in the big apple. Shuby, how can we help?

Speaker 3 Hey, how's it going? Thanks for taking my call.

Speaker 3 So I just wanted help on how to make my rent payments and car payments. I just actually suffered a job loss last week on Wednesday.

Speaker 1 Oh, sorry about that.

Speaker 1 What happened?

Speaker 3 So basically, it was just I had medical reasons and that kind of factored into my performance and like I just had to be you know out and take a lot of doctor trips and like I just guessed they were like you know we have to let you go and to be honest it wasn't somewhere where I wanted to work it was really toxic what were you doing and what were you making

Speaker 3 yes I was a fund accountant and I was making $74,000

Speaker 2 Okay, so what have you been doing in the meantime? What's your next bill? How are you you going to pay for it?

Speaker 3 Yeah, so I did file for unemployment, but to be honest, I don't think I'm going to get much off of that. Maybe maximum $2,000 a month.
I guess for this October, I'm planning on using my savings.

Speaker 2 How much do you have in savings?

Speaker 3 About $3,600.

Speaker 2 And what are your monthly bills? If you had to just cover the bare bones, you're not eating out. We're just trying to survive.
What would it take to cover a month?

Speaker 3 i would say like about three thousand

Speaker 3 seven hundred

Speaker 2 so we can't even get through october at this point

Speaker 3 um well

Speaker 3 well in terms of rent yes but for like the in terms of like the next

Speaker 3 like um

Speaker 3 what do you call it the next because i do have like income from this month that i got from my job so i can't have enough good so we can get through a month we need some short-term income and ken's going to help you get some ideas of what we can do.

Speaker 2 And then we need to find you a full-time job that you can do. What's the status of your health now?

Speaker 3 So I've been going to a doctor, and my eye is getting better,

Speaker 3 but it's not 100%, but it's definitely better, much better than where I started from.

Speaker 1 Are you expecting that you're going to be having to miss work?

Speaker 3 No, I think before, yes, before when I was let go, yes, I had to because it was no choice, but I don't think that should be a problem now.

Speaker 1 Okay, and are you planning to stay in the same type of a role doing accounting work?

Speaker 3 To be honest, that's not my dream, but I think for now I would have no choice.

Speaker 1 What's the long-term play?

Speaker 3 I want to be a cybersecurity analyst.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Have you talked to people that are in cybersecurity and doing the analytical work inside of that to get a real sense of what that looks like?

Speaker 1 And you know that you know that that you know you'd be on fire for that kind of work?

Speaker 3 Yes, right.

Speaker 1 I mean, there's,

Speaker 1 yes. Good.
That's good news because that's the thing should be. It's like, okay, we got to get stable right now in the short term.
So that's you doing three and four

Speaker 1 accounting type contracts or something like that, or let's get some full-time work right away. But you have a very, very transferable skill.

Speaker 1 And I would assume, tell me if I'm wrong, that you also can do a lot of your work remote in certain situations as well. So that opens you up beyond just the New York market.
Is that true?

Speaker 1 Yes, that's correct. All right.
So

Speaker 1 how intense are you right now about getting work?

Speaker 1 On a scale of one to 10. One,

Speaker 1 you're catching up on all the Netflix shows. And 10, that's all you're thinking about is getting work.

Speaker 3 No, definitely. It's 10.

Speaker 1 Okay. All right.
I mean, that's the key. That's the absolute key is to jump on this right now.
We don't wait. We don't let, okay, we're going to to take it easy this month.
It's right here, right now.

Speaker 1 So, George, I mean, Shuby, before we let you go, you feel good about I've got a budget in place and I've got enough money coming in in the next month, but I've got to start drawing a paycheck in the next month, month and a half.

Speaker 1 Is that true?

Speaker 3 Yes. And I guess my car is just another thing.
Well,

Speaker 3 I'm just paying a lot for the car and I want to get rid of it. Do you need a car?

Speaker 2 Are you in New York City proper where you can use public transportation?

Speaker 2 yes okay what is left on the car loan

Speaker 3 well it's actually a lease i actually have twenty three thousand nine hundred seventy left is that the early buyout amount

Speaker 3 no the yearly buyout is thirty six thousand six seventy four oh my gosh that's insane

Speaker 1 the car's not even worth

Speaker 2 Well, yeah, that's the problem with leases. I mean, you're pre-paying the depreciation, and then you still got to give back the car.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So we need to get you out of this. And that might mean we need to come up with some cash.
We might need to get, you know, kind of a loan from a credit union to cover the difference to get out of this.

Speaker 2 And then you need to sell it and get, you know, I don't think you need a car right now. So I think the good news is you can just get rid of it and not have to turn around and buy something else.

Speaker 3 Yeah, and I was also thinking like maybe the car, like it could be useful for like doing like DoorDash or something. That's, that's what I was thinking, too.

Speaker 1 No, you're an accountant.

Speaker 1 Why would you trade your time for driving DoorDash when you can trade your time for getting paid at a premium for a really needed service? Why would you do that?

Speaker 1 You're going to get paid way more offering your accounting services than you are dropping off somebody's tacos.

Speaker 2 Not to mention that lease has very strict parameters. I mean, we look at what you can do with mileage and wear and tear.
I mean, I don't think you're going to be able to pull that off.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you want to get rid of this car and putting more wear and tear on it doesn't make sense.

Speaker 3 Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 Come on, Shuby.

Speaker 2 So you got a few options here. The first is an early lease termination.
That involves a whole bunch of fees.

Speaker 2 The second option is a lease transfer where you convince some other goober to take over your lease. That's going to be tough.

Speaker 2 And the third one is what I mentioned is the lease buyout, where you pay the difference between the lease payoff amount and the current value of the car, which you said you're underwater on.

Speaker 3 Yeah, like they're offering like $36,674 to buy out, but like when I'm going on like Carvana or CarMax, the car is only worth $29.

Speaker 2 Well, yeah, they're not going to give you much for it. You got to go a private party to get a higher value for the car.
So I'd see if you can do that. What would the difference be?

Speaker 2 And can you come up with that difference?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I'm going to have to take that out then.

Speaker 2 That's some extra homework for you. Well, hang on the line, Shuby.
I want to send you a great resource from my friend Ken. It's called Find the Work You're Wired to Do.

Speaker 2 And with that comes a get clear career assessment. So here's your homework.

Speaker 2 I think we need to figure out if this is really the path, if cybersecurity analyst is what you're wired to do, and it's going to help you answer a few of those major questions, who you are, why you're wired that way, what you want to do professionally, and how to get there.

Speaker 2 So if you want to, we're going to send that to you for free.

Speaker 2 And for the rest of America, if you guys want to check out find the work you're wired to do, go to ramseysolutions.com slash store or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcasts.

Speaker 2 Thank you.

Speaker 1 Right now, the book is a number one bestseller in two categories on Amazon. Congrats.
Yes.

Speaker 2 Well, that means it's been helping people.

Speaker 1 Starting to help people, and it is such a great resource.

Speaker 1 I'll just say this, that the assessment itself is going to give you real clarity on what you do best, what you enjoy doing, and what motivates you.

Speaker 1 And then the book itself is about a 45-minute read of me coaching you.

Speaker 1 How do we actually translate this information about myself now into finding the right kind of work where I can grow and make really good money?

Speaker 1 What have we told people for decades, George, about their income? I want to bring it back to you.

Speaker 2 Income is your greatest wealth-building tool.

Speaker 1 So we need to get the income. Why do we say that?

Speaker 2 Because without it, it's hard to accomplish any of the baby steps. You need margin in your income in order to pay down the debt or to invest.

Speaker 2 And so a lot of people out there can, number one, they're in hourly jobs that aren't paying enough.

Speaker 2 They either got a degree that wasn't useful or they didn't finish or they're kind of wandering through life going, is this it? I'm miserable. I mean, we see these calls all the time.

Speaker 2 People are doing work they're not passionate about. That's right.
And then they wonder why they're not making progress in their careers. Why would you at that point?

Speaker 1 And this leads to the desperation that we heard on a call to start the show today. And you cover this stuff all the time.
You wrote about it in your book.

Speaker 1 People fall into these traps because it seems to make sense. Oh, I'm desperate.
Ooh, here's the Hail Mary.

Speaker 2 And I'm out of work. I need a shortcut.
I don't make enough. I need a shortcut.
And when you find the work you're wired to do and you make good money doing it, you're no longer looking for shortcuts.

Speaker 2 Absolutely. You move slower with more peace.

Speaker 1 And there's constant opportunities for growth. And growth is what you're looking for.
Good hour, George Campbell. Thank you, sir.
Thank you, America, for joining in. This is your show.

Speaker 1 This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Welcome to the Ramsey Show, where we help you win in your life. We help you win with your money.
We help you win in your work. And we help you win in your relationships.

Speaker 1 By the way, all three of those areas are just always interconnected, and that's why we focus on those areas to help you win. I'm Ken Coleman.

Speaker 1 George Campbell is alongside, and he's looking snappy today in his new coat from Gap Kids. And that looks great.
It fits really well. On the extra large.
Yep. Yeah, good.
I love that.

Speaker 1 Triple 8-825-5225 is the phone number. Triple-8-825-5225.
We have fun because we truly do love each other.

Speaker 2 Don't worry, America. I'll get him back later.
Trust me. When he leaves it.

Speaker 1 He suspects it. He's going to get me back.
And that's kind of the fun that we have here on the show.

Speaker 1 By the way, if you want to check out our Instagram accounts today at George Camel, K-A-M-E-L, or at Ken Coleman, we collaborated on a post where the social media team had some fun, fun and that's all I'll say.

Speaker 1 Yeah. It's worth it.

Speaker 2 It's worth the 10 seconds of your time.

Speaker 1 That's all it is, 10 seconds. Abby's up.
We're going to give her a lot more time than that. Abby in Buffalo, New York.
Abby, how can we help today?

Speaker 5 Oh, thank you so much for taking my call.

Speaker 5 I am looking for some advice.

Speaker 5 The long story short is I fought a custody battle for five years.

Speaker 5 I got divorced. My daughter was two.
She's now 14.

Speaker 5 But she was about nine when this started. And I lost the custody battle, unfortunately.

Speaker 5 The judge is actually in a civil lawsuit with 350 plus families for always siding with the man to give Zeal custody.

Speaker 1 Wow. So

Speaker 3 yeah.

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 1 Sounds like he's got an agenda.

Speaker 5 It's a she, she. That's the irony is

Speaker 5 the judge is a female.

Speaker 5 And she, yes, she does have an agenda. And

Speaker 5 so there's a lot of families who have filed this together. It's a very unfortunate.

Speaker 5 I wish I had seen some more of the red flags.

Speaker 1 Are you still in the middle of this? And the reason I'm asking, so you're not spending any more money on lawyers at this point.

Speaker 2 No, it's all over okay um and what's your financial status

Speaker 1 horrible are you in debt do you have any savings

Speaker 5 i am in little debt i have one credit card left that i need to pay off i've paid off all of my attorney fees good which is at four hundred and fifty dollars an hour um

Speaker 5 that's all over i have one small credit card but i have no savings essentially how much give it give george a paycheck $100 or $1,000?

Speaker 1 I'm sorry?

Speaker 2 Is it $100 or $1,000? Give us a number.

Speaker 5 Oh, for the credit card, I have

Speaker 1 $4,000.

Speaker 5 Oh, I have about $200 in my checking account and about $2,000 in my retirement because I also pulled from my retirement

Speaker 3 to pay recruit fees.

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay. Do you have any money in savings?

Speaker 1 No. $200.
And the credit card is $4,000?

Speaker 5 Yes.

Speaker 2 And what are you doing for work? And what do you make?

Speaker 5 Well, that's part of the problem as well. When this started, the judge deemed that I cared more about my profession than my child, which anyone who knew me was not the case.

Speaker 5 I worked for Harvard University at the time. I made about $135 a year.

Speaker 5 And I resigned from my position to show that I did, in fact, care for my child.

Speaker 1 With the university...

Speaker 2 Do you quit your job to convince the judge?

Speaker 5 Yes. That's essentially what she told me I'd do to prove that my daughter is more important than my position.

Speaker 1 What are you doing now?

Speaker 5 I represent a nonprofit.

Speaker 5 I am a director for them.

Speaker 5 We train service dogs and place service dogs for people who have hard attacks.

Speaker 1 What are you making in this job?

Speaker 5 A little, oh, about half of what I used to, about $67,000.

Speaker 1 What were you doing for Harvard?

Speaker 5 I was a director of development as well. I raised money for academic research.

Speaker 1 How long ago was this that you left?

Speaker 3 About

Speaker 3 four years ago.

Speaker 1 So you've been working with this nonprofit at half the income for four years?

Speaker 5 Yes.

Speaker 5 I, after resigning,

Speaker 5 the emotional,

Speaker 5 someone asked me once if the financial stress of the cussy battle or the emotional was worse, and I'd say the emotional, but financially it destroyed me.

Speaker 5 And honestly, I wasn't great at working for a while.

Speaker 5 This is my only child and it destroys me.

Speaker 5 And I wasn't great at jobs that I did. I got jobs.
I knew I wasn't doing it well.

Speaker 1 Well, but you were just trying to survive. You're just trying to survive this unbelievable fight for your daughter.

Speaker 1 So I think everybody understands that it's very difficult to be engaged at work when you're on this battle. But here's the reality.
This is my take. I want George to weigh in.

Speaker 1 You're on the other side of this. It is what it is now.
The fight is over. I hate that you drained your savings.
But as I look at the current picture, you only have $4,000 worth of debt.

Speaker 1 And so this is an income. This is a, I've got to move on with my life now.
And part of moving on with my life is.

Speaker 1 I'm on the other side of this battle. I'm sure there's still some healing.
I'm not in any way minimizing the battle scars. But at this point, the battle's over.

Speaker 1 The smoke has cleared, and you have got to fight for you right now. And a huge part of this is you are worth double at a minimum of what you're making right now, and it's time for you to build back.

Speaker 1 And the good news, George,

Speaker 1 I want to bring you in here. I don't think she's in as bad a shape financially as she feels.

Speaker 2 I think six months from now, your life looks completely different. Because in the next 30 days, you've got a thousand bucks.
What's your next, your next paycheck's going to be a few grand?

Speaker 5 Yes, so I get paid every other Friday, and essentially after

Speaker 5 healthcare taxes and that, it's about, I clear, I net $2,000

Speaker 1 every other week.

Speaker 2 Can you sock away another $800 from that and put it in savings and not touch it?

Speaker 5 That's what I think I need. That's the advice I need to hear.
I mean, at this point, I don't own anything, and I miss owning my house because I sold my house and this process, everything.

Speaker 5 Like, I want to save up for a goal of something.

Speaker 1 We'll get you there.

Speaker 2 We'll get you back to a foundation and a life that you love. Right now, we're just trying to build that foundation.
And so, a thousand bucks is your starter emergency fund.

Speaker 2 Once you have that in savings, we don't touch it. And then we go about the business of knocking out this credit card debt.

Speaker 2 So, how quickly, if you got real intense, you didn't invest, you maybe worked extra, how quickly could you knock out four grand of credit card debt? Three months,

Speaker 5 probably. If I am part of this, I work remotely.

Speaker 5 And so I always feel like I'm like, I live, work, eat, sleep in the same one-bedroom apartment that is affordable, but it's also very lonely.

Speaker 5 So I think I waste too much money going out for dinner to have other people around me to have some socialization.

Speaker 2 Well, get some friends over the apartment and let's knock out this credit card debt. Let's not go out for, you know, retail therapy or whatever we're doing.

Speaker 2 Let's just focus on knocking out the credit card debt.

Speaker 2 Because then you get to baby step three, where you work on a fully funded emergency fund, three to six months expenses you'll likely do that about six months later so we're talking about here is likely a nine month 10 month plan to where you have a fully funded emergency fund and no debt george let's give her a session with one of our financial coaches oh absolutely hang on the line we'll get you connected and we'll cover the session for you because we want to see you win and get back on your feet so hang on christian will pick up we'll get you scheduled you can do this abby

Speaker 1 you can do it you've you've weathered a really difficult battle and you're still kicking you got this we're here to help hang on the line we'll take care of you this is the Ramsey show

Speaker 1 welcome back to the Ramsey show I'm Ken Coleman George Camill is alongside the phone number for you to jump in is triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five we'll go to buffalo new york sabrina is waiting for us sabrina how can we help

Speaker 3 hi guys how are you today Good.

Speaker 1 How are you?

Speaker 3 Good, good.

Speaker 3 Just kind of trying to get some advice on how to

Speaker 3 not live paycheck to paycheck anymore.

Speaker 3 My fiancé and I bring in about $5,000 a month.

Speaker 3 We have about $18,000 in credit card debt and these cards are behind. We haven't made payments in a while.

Speaker 1 Yes. Why is that?

Speaker 3 Well, my fiancé lost his job probably about two months months ago. It took him about three weeks to start again, to start a new job.
So that

Speaker 3 encouraged us to kind of dip into our savings, to pay for our monthly expenses.

Speaker 2 Did you guys already combine finances?

Speaker 3 So we established, each of us putting in about $1,000 a week. We both get paid bi-weekly.
So we were paying about $4,000 a month in bills.

Speaker 3 And we had this conversation actually last week that now we need to contribute 100% of our paychecks to try to get out of this hole.

Speaker 3 But it just doesn't seem reasonable with all of our expenses. And we're living extremely paycheck to paycheck.
We have about $100 in savings. What other debt do you have about $100 in checking?

Speaker 3 We have about $18,000 in credit card debt.

Speaker 1 But there's other stuff here.

Speaker 3 Yeah. My father-in-law was generous enough to take out a home equity loan for us to pay off our car loans.
So we rolled our car loans together to try to lower that payment.

Speaker 3 So we owe him about $35,000.

Speaker 2 So he took out a HELOC in his name and then gave you the money? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Oh, bro.

Speaker 3 He paid off our car loans for us, and now we owe him

Speaker 3 that money.

Speaker 3 And we have about $185,000 in a home mortgage.

Speaker 1 Okay,

Speaker 1 what do you owe him?

Speaker 3 We owe our father-in-law about $35,000.

Speaker 1 Goodness gracious. And the mortgage, you're both both on the mortgage?

Speaker 3 No, just myself.

Speaker 2 And he's paying into it, helping you build equity, but you guys aren't married, but you sort of combine finances, but not totally.

Speaker 2 Do you feel how messy this is?

Speaker 3 Yeah, we were actually supposed to get married next week, but we postponed the wedding because financially we can't afford to do it.

Speaker 1 I got a great idea for you. You ready?

Speaker 1 Go to the courthouse tomorrow.

Speaker 2 We'll do a party later, but let's sort this out because part of this is it's very messy and we can't make progress when we're sort of halfway in this thing.

Speaker 1 You guys need to get officially married by the judge. It costs very little to nothing.
Get the old marriage license.

Speaker 1 And to George's point, you guys got to fix this. This thing is a mess waiting to happen.

Speaker 2 It really is. And also, these cars are more than half of your annual income.

Speaker 2 So I think one or both of these cars needs to go. You need to sell it and then use that money to pay dad back.
And then whatever's left, we buy beater cars.

Speaker 2 Yeah. That's part of the reason we're living paycheck to paycheck.
And also, why are you guys only bringing in 5K together?

Speaker 3 So I make about $67 a year.

Speaker 3 He makes about $58,000. So after taxes and health insurance, it's about $5,000 a month.

Speaker 2 You're not paying 53% in taxes.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 There's something fishy here.

Speaker 1 Something's weird. You guys are over 100,000.
You guys are what, pushing pushing 120 income.

Speaker 2 It's 125 grand.

Speaker 1 125.

Speaker 2 And you're taking home 60. It's not adding up.

Speaker 1 Are you guys investing at all?

Speaker 3 That's why it's confused. That's why I'm confused on what's happening.
Like, why don't we?

Speaker 1 Well, we'll help you. I'm going to tell you what's happening.

Speaker 1 You either don't know your numbers or he's not giving you the full picture of his numbers. Something's just not adding up.
And by the way,

Speaker 1 this is why we want you to be married and get all of the money into one account.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 1 And then get on a budget. And we're going to help you with that in just a minute.
Okay.

Speaker 1 But first things first,

Speaker 1 you guys don't know what the other one is doing.

Speaker 1 And we're playing house. And I'm not making a moral statement.
This is a financial thing. And so you've got to get combined so that we can use the power of two pulling together.
But George is right.

Speaker 1 There's no way you guys are only netting $5,000 a month between the two of you.

Speaker 2 Are you guys investing at all into retirement accounts?

Speaker 3 I invest into my 401. I don't believe his company offers.

Speaker 2 Okay, how much are you investing right now?

Speaker 1 What percent?

Speaker 3 12%.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 Can I give you some help here on why you're living paycheck to paycheck?

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 2 You are giving a lot of money to the investment account that should be going toward debt payoff to the tune of, are you ready for this, $8,000 a year is what you're currently investing.

Speaker 2 If you got that back in your check, you brought it down to zero, you would have an extra almost $700 every single month.

Speaker 2 Could you breathe a little better with an extra $700 if I gave it to you?

Speaker 1 Absolutely.

Speaker 2 And now, what do the car payments add up to?

Speaker 3 Yeah, car payments right now are about $340, excuse me, $460 a month.

Speaker 2 For both of them total? For two cars.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 2 Okay, so let's take the $700 plus the $460 if we got rid of these car payments. Now you have almost 1,200 bucks.

Speaker 2 Do you see how you can breathe again if you just knock some of these things out?

Speaker 1 And I'm guessing, let me jump in, George. Sabrina, I'm guessing that we're not talking about combined incomes right now.
You guys are only putting $1,000 of your income towards this joint account.

Speaker 1 So if we take his full take-home and your full take-home and combine them, we're even better off. Plus the $1,100 or $1,200 that George has found, correct?

Speaker 3 Right, right.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you guys aren't you guys shouldn't be

Speaker 3 100% in.

Speaker 1 Right, but guess what? We're not struggling. We sell a car or two

Speaker 1 and you pull out that investment income that George told you. We got breathing room.
We're rocking and rolling. So here's your homework.

Speaker 2 Figure out what you could sell these cars for at private party, not what the dealership would trade it in for, because they're going to give you pennies on the dollar.

Speaker 2 And then you're going to sell those cars private party with the money you get, the proceeds, the profits. Hopefully there are profits.

Speaker 2 You buy yourselves yourselves two cheap cars like Facebook Marketplace, four grand, get an inspection, a pre-purchased inspection on it for $100 so you know you're not buying a lemon and drive those as you then pay off the credit card debt because now we're making 125 grand.

Speaker 2 We paused investing. We freed up the car payments.
We have almost $1,200 to throw out the credit card debt.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 2 You see the momentum you just made in just one month?

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 2 So based on that math, you'll be out of credit card debt in less than a year, probably closer to six six months with some intensity. And now we're married.
We have combined incomes.

Speaker 2 We don't have any debt. Now we can work on a fully funded emergency fund.
And from here on out, we're not going to take out another dime.

Speaker 1 We're not borrowing money from anyone for any reason.

Speaker 3 Right.

Speaker 1 But the key to this, all of this, George,

Speaker 1 I want you to keep going here. I'm teeing you up.
Okay.

Speaker 1 They got to get on a budget. The two of them, they got to get married.
And they got to get on a budget.

Speaker 2 So here's what that looks like. I'm going to gift you every dollar premium.
We'll call it a wedding gift from Ken and I.

Speaker 1 See?

Speaker 2 And when you open it up, I want you and your fiancé, once you're married, sit down and go, what is the paychecks coming in this month once we pause investing?

Speaker 2 All right, we're going to assign every single dollar a job in the expense category. What is the rent going to be? What's the utility bills? How much are we going to spend on groceries?

Speaker 2 The eating out budget is going to be zero because we are in a crisis right now. And then beyond that, what do we have to cover? And anything else that's not in the budget, we don't buy.

Speaker 2 That's the hardest part is the budget forces you to have some discipline in your life instead of just sort of willy-nilly floating through going, wow, we made six grand.

Speaker 1 I don't know where it all went. Pretty crazy.

Speaker 2 And you two, how old are you two?

Speaker 3 I'm 36. He's 39.

Speaker 2 Would you agree it's time we started being adults? And went like, where do you want to be at 45, at 50?

Speaker 3 Absolutely.

Speaker 1 Do you want to be the 50-year-old?

Speaker 3 I feel pretty shameful that I don't have anything really to go forward.

Speaker 1 We don't want you to feel any shame. We want you to just be motivated.
And real quick question.

Speaker 1 Is the fiancé, fiancé how's he gonna react to us telling you guys to go to the courthouse tomorrow how's he gonna react to that oh he's all for it he thinks that i want the big money so bring up no listen you can have an amazing celebration after you're debt free and the shrimp are paid for huh

Speaker 2 i love a good cash uh shrimp cocktail there is no shame in financial freedom so you're looking through the windshield now that's what we're helping you look at and so you got to you know pick up the pieces leave the baggage behind and say where are we going five years from now where do we want to i'll tell tell you where they're going.

Speaker 1 To the courthouse.

Speaker 2 Booyah.

Speaker 1 Huh? Gonna get that marriage certificate. Put a ring on it.
Sabrina's fiancé.

Speaker 2 This is exciting. Hand on the line.
We're gonna gift you every dollar.

Speaker 1 You guys are on your way. This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Thrilled that you were with us.
I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell is alongside 888-825-5225 is the phone number.
Triple-8-825-5225. David is up next in Oklahoma City.

Speaker 1 David, how can we help today?

Speaker 3 Well, it's good to talk to you, gentlemen. Thanks for taking my call.

Speaker 1 You bet. What's up?

Speaker 3 Well,

Speaker 3 got a question. I am 60 years old, and I am starting to put together the pieces, thinking about retiring, hopefully, in the next year or two.
That's how I'm framing it right now.

Speaker 3 One of the pieces that I'm considering is that my employer has a pension, and my projections that I've done so far indicate that I could have about an $1,800 a month benefit from that with a hundred percent survival option for my wife or

Speaker 3 I could elect to take a lump sum which projection right now indicates it would be just under three hundred thousand dollars

Speaker 3 so my my question is as I'm assessing the different pieces on this would it be okay to just take the 1800 and and trust the annuity or would it be smarter to consider taking the cash out lump sum as a direct rollover into a self-managed, self-directed IRA?

Speaker 2 Great question, David. You're thinking this through very wisely, and it sounds like you've done a great job.
What does your total nest eg look like? How much of your world is this pension?

Speaker 3 Well, my 401k

Speaker 3 is a little under 900.

Speaker 3 And my wife will have a pension also in the two-ish per month range when when she decides to retire. That's probably a couple of years down the road.
The way we're kind of planning it right now.

Speaker 2 You might retire first.

Speaker 3 That's possible, yes.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 Well, let's walk through sort of the math of it first, and then I want to talk about what's next for you and what the retirement really looks like. So generally,

Speaker 2 we say you want to take the lump sum, and it's based on simple math.

Speaker 2 If you take the 300 grand into an IRA, it's going to grow at a greater rate than the pension, which is likely going to underperform probably around 6% or 7% on average versus what we've seen in the market.

Speaker 2 If it's in the IRA, you could be making 9%, 10%, 11%.

Speaker 2 Right. And so the question is, the $1,800 a month, that's about $21,000 a year.

Speaker 2 Could you make that or more if you just invested it on your own with more control and you can pass that down to your heirs? Because the pension dies with you or, worst case, with your wife, right?

Speaker 2 With the 100% survivor benefit.

Speaker 1 That's correct. That's correct.
Versus creating generation.

Speaker 3 Right. That's kind of the direct.

Speaker 3 The lump sum option, since it looked like that is a qualified plan that would allow me to do the direct rollover and avoid the tax penalty so I could push all that over into a self-directed IRA.

Speaker 3 It seemed like that was the direction, but I wanted to make sure I was kind of thinking all the variables of the equation out as best I could.

Speaker 1 Let me just have some fun with this. Let's put this, you said you're 60?

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 1 Okay, let's take the 300, George, on the lump sum. And George has got his investment calculator out, David.
This is where this really becomes a super easy decision for you. So run those numbers.

Speaker 2 Let's say 60 to 67. You just drop 300 grand in there.
You don't touch it.

Speaker 1 I was going to say to 70.

Speaker 2 You want to say to 70?

Speaker 1 Well, let's ask you, David, you want us to run the numbers on what that 300 becomes in 10 years or seven years? You don't need this 15, right?

Speaker 2 This is not money you need as soon as you start retirement. You're not going to start withdrawing from it.

Speaker 3 The plan would be to not.

Speaker 3 Yes, correct.

Speaker 1 Okay, great. So let's say 70.
Let's just do 10 years, what that 300K is.

Speaker 2 So 10 years with a 10% return, which is what we've seen on average for average annual returns for the S ⁇ P 500, you would have $812,000 in that account.

Speaker 2 So you make $212,000 on that in 10 years.

Speaker 3 Right. And that keeps me,

Speaker 3 that means I'm not losing money by just taking the annuity.

Speaker 2 Exactly. Now, if you took the annuity, $1,800, $21,000, 10 years, it's it's 210 grand.
And so, you know,

Speaker 2 it could be apples to apples. The difference is it's in your control and you're probably going to see greater returns over the long haul.

Speaker 3 And I guess that's that's probably the other part of it is being able to control it and making sure it's not under, you know, it's a money that a third party controls and sends to me and something doesn't one day, oh sorry, the pension has just gone busting.

Speaker 1 Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 And people like annuities because it's guaranteed and so if you're real spooked by the market.

Speaker 1 But as a guy who's been investing for a long time you know that as long as you don't jump off the roller coaster when you get spooked you're going to do better i i want to play this out a little bit more david because life is life expectancy let's let's jump that george let's take that 300 and let's let's do it in 20 years let's see what it looks like at 80.

Speaker 2 at 80 your results 2.2 million dollars

Speaker 2 And again, like the

Speaker 1 favorite sound right there.

Speaker 2 You probably don't need that much.

Speaker 1 I think David needs a cigarette. That's what he needs.
He's sitting back.

Speaker 1 He lit one up right there, an imaginary heater right there. He's like 2.2 million.

Speaker 1 That's why I like that option, David.

Speaker 3 Yeah,

Speaker 3 I think that sounds like the smart.

Speaker 3 It seemed like that was the direction I was going, but

Speaker 3 I needed a confirming. a confirming sense that that was the right thing.
And it sure sounds like that's the right thing to do.

Speaker 2 Awesome. I'm with you.
It's what I would do personally, David. It's what Dave Ramsey would do.

Speaker 2 And you've done a great job. Again, this is not a

Speaker 2 make it or break it, life or death thing here because you have other money sitting around. You've done a great job, and your wife's got the pension.

Speaker 2 You likely have Social Security on top of all that as some gravy.

Speaker 1 I love that sound he made.

Speaker 1 He needed a moment there.

Speaker 1 That's why we do what we do. Thanks for running those numbers, George.

Speaker 2 Man, that's always fun when it works in your favor.

Speaker 1 And that's, yeah, it's like we can tell you or we can show you. And George is always ready.
You're like that investment calculator.

Speaker 1 You're like one of those, you're like the quickest calculator in the West. You know, like you, yeah, you're like one of those new Western movies where George is always ready to go with the numbers.

Speaker 2 That's right. It's not as cool as being a real cowboy, but I'll take what I can get.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you're an investment cowboy. I like that.
Wow. That's what I'm going to call you.

Speaker 2 Changing my Twitter bio today.

Speaker 1 Thanks. Good.
Greg is up next in Detroit, Michigan. Greg, how can we help?

Speaker 1 Hello. Hi, Greg.

Speaker 3 How are you?

Speaker 1 Good. How can we help?

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 3 I'm 67. My wife's 64.
We're retired.

Speaker 3 And we're living off Social Security. And I'm also drawing some money out of our IRA every month, mostly for fun and paying off debt.
So at this point,

Speaker 3 we owe one our house, and that's about it.

Speaker 3 We owe $75,000. The house is worth about $300,000.
My interest rate is 2.8%.

Speaker 3 So I've never been really keen on trying to get it paid off. You know what I'm saying? It doesn't seem like I would make more money leaving my money in savings.
So what I want to do is

Speaker 3 my lease on my truck is coming due, and I want to either re-lease fund or buy this truck out.

Speaker 3 And my wife is not keen on me leasing.

Speaker 1 Why is that?

Speaker 3 Because it's, you know, over $600 a month.

Speaker 2 Because you married a smart woman, was the answer. And she can do math.

Speaker 2 Right. Sure.
What am I saving this money for?

Speaker 3 You know, I saved it all this time, and now I kind of want to spend some.

Speaker 2 What are you making off Social Security?

Speaker 3 $4,200 a month between us.

Speaker 2 Okay. And then you're pulling out of the IRA for like fun money?

Speaker 3 Yeah, mostly.

Speaker 1 Okay. What's in the IRA? Who cares?

Speaker 3 $900,000.

Speaker 1 Way to go.

Speaker 2 That's awesome. So why not just buy a cash car and pay off the house and just be done with all this?

Speaker 1 The spread is not, it's not going to be that much of a spread.

Speaker 2 You're saying, hey, I can make more if I invested. I'm going to hang on to the lease.
Why not just fully enjoy this retirement completely debt-free?

Speaker 2 It lowers your monthly expenses, allows you to have more fun with less stress.

Speaker 3 So I would pay off my house for my savings as well.

Speaker 2 Yeah, how much do you have in savings?

Speaker 1 You're talking about the 900? From the IRA. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So if you took 75 out of the IRA, what would be the do you want to buy this truck when you're done with the lease?

Speaker 1 Yes, I don't mind buying it yet.

Speaker 2 Okay, so just figure out the buyout amount. And if you really love it, it sounds like you guys can afford to do that and not decimate your nest egg that you've created along with Social Security.

Speaker 2 So I would do the budget, run it out, and talk to your wife and say, hey, these guys on the radio convince me that we should pay off the house because it'll lower our expenses, which is only going to give us more flexibility.

Speaker 1 His wife's going to love this.

Speaker 2 And I'm done leasing. Let's just own it outright instead of prepaying the depreciation.
I'm with your wife on this one.

Speaker 1 And the monthly budget changes dramatically, we know, by $600

Speaker 1 for the car, plus the mortgage.

Speaker 2 We got some fun money now.

Speaker 1 Oh my goodness. It's that simple, folks.
That's why they call him the Camel. This is The Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 It is time for our question of the day here on The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman.
George Camel is with me. And our question of the day is brought to you by YReFi.

Speaker 1 Politicians make a lot of promises, and sometimes they may even keep one or two of them. But if you're in over your head with private student loans, don't rely on the government to rescue you.

Speaker 1 Contact YReFi. YReFi refinances defaulted private student loans and gives you a low-fixed rate loan built for you.
Go to yrefi.com slash Ramsey today. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y

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Speaker 1 slash Ramsey. It may not be available in all states.

Speaker 2 Today's question comes from Catherine in Colorado. My husband just finished his bachelor's degree in business administration and is considering going on for his MBA at age 53.

Speaker 2 He's in an upper management position and feels like he won't continue to move up the ladder unless he gets this degree.

Speaker 2 I've tried to tell him that he's well liked at his company and has made it quite far without it, but he has it in his head that he'll be stuck where he is forever.

Speaker 2 He already has significant student loans, which we will be paying into retirement. We do not have any investments, so other than a small pension each, we will rely on Social Security when we retire.

Speaker 2 What say you about going on for his MBA, yay or nay?

Speaker 1 Nay, nay,

Speaker 1 nay, nay. There it is.
How else can I say it? I mean, that's all I got. I can't get any more clear on this.
He, first of all, he's not stuck.

Speaker 1 The MBA at this stage of his life at 53, it's not like it's going to open up opportunities for him based on a, well, I got this education. It gets me in.

Speaker 1 The NBA itself

Speaker 1 doesn't guarantee success. It certainly is a requirement in certain positions.

Speaker 1 But at this stage, given their situation, my goodness, they've got student loans, George, that they're already under the impression they're going to have to pay these all the way into retirement.

Speaker 1 And I'm so saddened by this email question. I'm sad.

Speaker 1 We're just going to

Speaker 1 live off of Social Security.

Speaker 2 Small, tiny pension, Social Security, and we're going to go further into debt. Clearly, they don't have the money to pay for the MBA.

Speaker 2 If I'm in his shoes, if the company wants to pay for me to get an MBA because it's going to benefit the company, then go for it if they're paying for it.

Speaker 2 But do not pay for this yourself thinking it's going to move you up the ladder or that you're stuck. You're already in upper management.

Speaker 2 So just excel in what you do and find other ways to learn and grow that don't involve going into debt.

Speaker 1 You can upskill without an MBA. And at this point, he's in the industry.
He's done very well with this company. And so what he needs to be thinking about right now is

Speaker 1 lateral movements that will allow me to eventually go vertical or a straight vertical movement with some other company. But you're operating on fear here.
I see a lot of fear in this email.

Speaker 1 I see a lot of doubt in this email. And fear and doubt cloud us from making good decisions.
You cannot make a good decision when you've got this fear that I'm stuck at 53. I'm stuck.

Speaker 1 Well, then, George, what happens is, and you see this a lot, and you talk about this a lot with financial decisions that people make in your book, Breaking Free from Broke.

Speaker 1 Desperation leads us to poor financial decisions. And in this case, make no mistake about it, it is being couched as a professional decision, but this is a financial decision only.

Speaker 1 This NBA is not going to make him more valuable. So now it is a pure financial decision with the hope that it pays off in more income.
And I'm just telling you, it's really risky.

Speaker 1 Nay, nay, nay.

Speaker 2 I would be about the business of knocking out the student loans with the income you have. Sounds like you guys make good money.

Speaker 2 You just have been squandering it, probably due to lifestyle and hanging on to this debt

Speaker 2 as it accrues interest. So you're 53.
I want to see these student loans gone the next few years and then start stacking up for retirement, get the emergency fund there.

Speaker 2 Sounds like they've been living in the paycheck to paycheck cycle for way too long.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Well, again, we've got a couple here who have resigned themselves to we're going to be paying off student loans into retirement and oh, we're going to be doing that with Social Security.

Speaker 1 I got to tell you something. I'm not trying to be unkind, but the idea of paying off my student loans with Social Security payments makes me want to jump off a bridge.

Speaker 2 Well, the numbers came out, Ken. The average Social Security payment as of May or August of 2024 was, you want to guess?

Speaker 2 I bet you'll be close.

Speaker 1 I'm going to say, is this individual or a couple?

Speaker 2 This was just the average payment. Didn't say, just the average payment that the Social Security office paid out.

Speaker 1 I'm going to say $2,200.

Speaker 2 You're very generous. It was $1,900.

Speaker 1 Oh.

Speaker 2 So we're talking about poverty-level living here. Oh, I know.
With the average payment. And some people make way less than that with Social Security, depending on what they've paid into it.

Speaker 1 $1,900. This is not a retirement plan.

Speaker 1 You know, we don't know that the Social Security Administration is going to be, we don't even know if that's going to be solvent.

Speaker 2 We've seen scary stats that by the time I see it, if I ever do, it's going going to be at a much far reduced rate.

Speaker 2 So,

Speaker 2 Catherine, I can smell, by the way you frame this question, you do not want him to pursue this. I think you guys should pursue the Ramsey plan instead.
And your income will go up over time, naturally.

Speaker 1 Let's go to Josh, who's waiting on the line in Salt Lake City. Josh, how can we help today?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I've just kind of got myself into a little bit of a pickle and trying to, you know, entertain different ideas of how to get myself out here. Okay.

Speaker 3 So I got myself a HELOC back in

Speaker 3 You know good old days of 2020 with the good rates. I got my house loan down to 2.375

Speaker 3 on a 20-year loan. We only have 16-year loan left.

Speaker 3 But my HELOC

Speaker 3 is now sitting at $100,000 at 9.5%.

Speaker 3 So what I've done with that was I actually quit my job. and kind of started up my own thing doing a service company.

Speaker 3 So I took some of that HELOC to help me get started with that business

Speaker 3 and the business has been going for about two years now

Speaker 3 we kind of you know we're plateauing because of this interest rate I'm paying you know 900 almost nine hundred dollars a month in interest only on that HELOC so what I've done is I've reached out last year to

Speaker 3 a capital with a credit kind of type of company. You know, they got me about $50,000 in credit cards through the business.
We did a balanced transfer. And now

Speaker 2 you keep thinking debt is the next answer to get you out of debt. You understand that? I know.

Speaker 3 Correct. Yeah, and I got to get out of this cycle before,

Speaker 3 you know.

Speaker 2 So what is your next step? If you didn't call today, what were you about to do?

Speaker 3 Get another credit card and transfer more over, trying to keep that repetitiveness, unfortunately. I've tried to look around to see small business loans are even higher percentage than my HELOS.

Speaker 2 Josh, zoom out.

Speaker 2 Have an out-of-body experience. Look down at Josh from above and tell him debt is not the next answer.
Another credit card, a balance transfer, a HELOC is not going to solve Josh's problems.

Speaker 2 What you need is income. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Has it occurred to you that you need to make more money or spend less?

Speaker 1 Well, we definitely need to spend less, but to get out of this, you've got to get some margin.

Speaker 2 So, what's your total consumer debt?

Speaker 3 With the HELOC and the two credit cards, without the truck, we're sitting at $130.

Speaker 1 Why'd you say without the truck?

Speaker 3 Well, yeah, I mean, with the truck, you know, we're paying $600 a month on the truck.

Speaker 1 So what's the total debt?

Speaker 2 What is the truck loan left?

Speaker 3 About 30 left on the truck.

Speaker 1 So we got 160 sitting here.

Speaker 2 What's the household income?

Speaker 3 We're pushing about $100,000 right now now for this year so far.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 So here's the deal. I'm going to move this HELOC into your baby's Tep Six debt, and I want you to aggressively attack the other 60 using the debt snowball method.
Do you have any money in savings?

Speaker 3 I do have a like a cash value life insurance.

Speaker 3 It has about twenty grand in it that's available.

Speaker 2 So if you surrendered that policy and got out of it, number one, because it's a trash product, what would you get out of it if you surrendered?

Speaker 3 probably say,

Speaker 3 you know, minus their fees and everything, probably about, well, it's sitting at about 26 right now, so about 2018. Okay.

Speaker 2 And could that knock out some of those smaller debts you have?

Speaker 1 Some of the credit cards?

Speaker 3 I only have the two credit cards, and I got those credit cards to transfer the HELOC balance over because

Speaker 1 I think we're done using the only language. I only have two credits.
I only have... I think we're done.

Speaker 2 There's no more need to justify.

Speaker 3 I had zero until I got those two. So besides what he lost.

Speaker 2 And here's the deal. You're going to run this business completely debt-free.
And if you can no longer keep this business running to where it's profitable, we need to find you a better full-time gig.

Speaker 2 And the key is you're not going to file bankruptcy, no more balance transfers. You need to get your income up, your expenses down, and use the margin to knock out the debt.

Speaker 2 And get term life insurance in place before you cancel the crappy whole life policy. And call us back if you need help.

Speaker 2 Oh, and catch the rest of the show in the Ramsey Network app. That's right.

Speaker 1 You're Radio, it's going to keep coming your way. For the rest of you, you got to get it on the Ramsey app.
Get it in the App Store or Google Play. This is the Ramsey Show.