This Is What Freedom Sounds Like!

live from the headquarters of Ramsey solutions it's the Ram Show, where we help people build wealth, do work

that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Dr. John Deloney, number one best-selling author and host of

the Dr. John Deloney Show, is my co-host today.

We're taking your calls at 888-825-5225.

The call is free, and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. Don't believe me? Read Reddit.
There we go. Ah, good to be back on the microphone.
If those of you that don't care or didn't know, I've been gone for about four weeks goofing off. Because I'm 64 years old, why wouldn't I? So I went to Turkey on a two-week Bible study of the seven churches of Revelation, and then changed the, completely flipped it over, flew to Edinburgh and played golf for two weeks in Scotland with my wife on all of that.
And so we've had a blast, and we're glad to be back home. We loved Turkey.
The people of Turkey are wonderful. We love Scottish people.
We've always loved Scotland. A lot of fun, but we really love America.
And it's good to be home-merica. So, you know, every time I travel, I do meet nice people.
I don't have trouble finding good people in any country. There's very few countries I just despise, John.
Yeah, there's just... When you get out, there's good people.
Get off the screens. There's good people everywhere.
Yeah. Yeah, it was great.
I enjoyed the Scottish. It was a lot of fun and had some great discussions with those guys.
They're a lot of fun. The old caddies are great.
Oh, I bet. And certainly all the Bible stuff we did in Turkey was off the chain.
But it was really good to be back with you guys. Phone number 888-825-5225.
Susan's in Kansas City. Hi, Susan.
How can we help? I am looking for wonderful advice as a way that I can help out my husband. He worked in pharmaceutical chemistry with a bachelor's and a Ph.D., worked for 15 years, got laid off in 2011, and he's never gotten a job since.
It's been really challenging. Whoa.
When he was laid off, yeah, big time. His layoff coincided with Obamacare being launched and a push to get all sorts of pharmaceuticals down to generic price, so it made research really hard to be profitable in the U.S.
And, of course, the financial crisis had started in 2008. So there were thousands of chemists of his caliber looking for jobs.
He looked all over the United States. We were willing to move.
We had followed his career previously and I had been a stay-at-home parent but when he was two years out of having a job I went back in and I got a full-time job and rebuilt my career, which has been really helpful, but it hasn't replaced his earnings because my bachelor's degree earnings do not equal PhD earnings in chemistry. Apparently they do.
Yeah, they do. They far exceed it.
Well, I guess in that case, yep, you're right. What I want to do is figure out how I can help him out.
I've helped him to seek counseling when he was really down and having depression after being laid off. I've helped him seek medical help.
We've even moved halfway across the country from the East Coast back to the Midwest so we can be closer to family and have a lower cost of living. But I don't think that he is actively seeking different ways to look for jobs.
We have enlisted a resume service way back 10 years ago, and he signed up for some online job seminars, and that was right at the beginning of 2020. Hey, Susan.
It was all about networking. I just want to interrupt you.
This has nothing to do with the mechanics of finding a job. Okay.
He doesn't want to work. It's really hard.
I do accept that concept. I know.
I hear from him that he does, but I don't see him taking the steps. But behavior is a language.
Behavior is a language. What's he been telling you for a decade? His behavior for a decade is, I don't work.
I don't work. That's the answer to John's question.
And his behavior for a decade is I know that you're scared and I know you're exhausted and you're freaked out about bills. You go do something about it.
I'm not going to. And here's why I don't have a lot of compassion.
I know too many people of my personal friends who have PhDs who got laid off and they are at the grocery store or they're at Walmart throwing boxes in the interim because they have families and they have commitments that they've made. They have responsibilities.
Absolutely. I also have friends who've been in the throes of depression and have worked like you wouldn't believe to work themselves out, and six months, one year later, they're doing something.
And I've encouraged him to take any kind of an entry-level basic job just to get back into working. That's right.
And he's not been actively doing that. I did.
That's how I got into my job, and now I've got fabulous. Well, Susan, that's what normal people do.
Yeah. Yeah.
And when you're broke and you don't have work and you can't find work in your field, you take a job. Right.
And then you keep trying to work your way back into your field, maybe, but you take a job. And there's no excuses or reason that goes for 13 years unless he's mentally disabled or physically disabled.
And even then, I think he could probably have been doing something. I agree.
I'm not sure what I can do. I don't know that you can do anything.
You've done a lot already um the only thing i would um so my friend henry cloud tells a story um about a guy who tried to help his son get through college and he kept getting thrown out because he was smoking weed or whatever and the guy get him back into another college he get thrown out get him back into another college and get thrown out and um the guy said to henry he goes i gotta tell you about my son's problems and he goes your son doesn't have any problems his dad takes care of everything and he smokes weed your son doesn't have any trouble he goes you're the one's got problems you have a son that's misbehaving and my job is to help you help your son have some problems because your son is being taken care of by his trust fund daddy. And in a sense, Susan, I know you're a kind, sweet person.
I can hear it in your voice and the way you've described this. I want somehow someone in your husband's life to help him have some problems that gets him off his butt.
Yeah, we have kind of a blessing and kind of a curse

where his parents, who have both passed away during this whole thing,

they left him money and they were helping support us

during the earlier parts of his unemployment.

So he doesn't see a need to get something

or we're going to be on the street living in a box.

Here's the problem, and I'll say what John's getting to say ahead of him

because I know what he's going to say.

You're losing respect for your husband. Yes.
And it's going to cost you your marriage. It could.
And he needs to know that. He doesn't believe that and he doesn't know that.
Because this is, yeah, this isn't about resumes. This is not about, um, no, this is about getting up off your butt.
What mom left us or dad left us in the trust fund it's about none of that this is you having the courage to say after 10 years i do not respect the man that i share a bed with and he he has a right i believe to know that and it's about contribution and purpose yeah and it's taking us down a road that i don't want to go down honey which is that we're not to end up married. And so we're going to go see a marriage counselor and you're going to go get a

job doing something in the next 30 days, or you are contributing to the end of our marriage.

That's what a marriage counselor is going to teach you to say.

We're not telling you to say two marriage counselors and it has not been successful but maybe we need another person yeah you need somebody to get up and I've even consulted yeah I've even consulted a lawyer and I found that I would have to pay him alimony yep despite putting him through two graduate degrees because he went back during this got another graduate degree at very little cost because I happen to work where he got the degree yeah I hate this for you. I hate this for you.
It shouldn't be this way. It's not right.
It's wrong. But it's not going to get better until someone moves him.
He's stuck. And somebody's going to have to love him enough to knock him out of the ditch because he ain't climbing out.
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John Deloney, Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Judy is in Los Angeles.
Hi, Judy. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.
Hi. I am a long-time listener and a first-time caller.
Okay. I'm on baby step six, and I listen to your show all the time, and you recommend never to co-sign for someone.
Correct. I'm on baby step six and I listen to your show all the time and you recommend never to co-sign for someone.
But I'm in a situation where I do want to co-sign for somebody under a certain circumstance. So my husband's cousin, first cousin, she's been on section eight.
Anyway, she lost that. Now she's in her 60s.
She needs to get an apartment. There's a special needs trust that her parents have set up for her.
And in order for her to get into an apartment, she needs to have someone co-sign, where her brother, who is the trustee, refused to do so. And I was wondering, can I...
Warning, warning, warning.. Why would her brother who loves her more than you do? He's her brother, for God's sakes, not want to cosign.
He doesn't love her. Oh, yeah, she doesn't mind if she goes home.
Yes. No, that's true.
I don't believe it. It's totally true.
It's from a very dysfunctional family. He's not willing.
His wife is telling me he's willing to let her go homeless if they have to. There is more to this story than you are telling or believing.
Well, she has a problem. She has a personality disorder.
Oh, okay. Yeah, that's right.
She's in her 60s. She's never worked in her life.
She always was in Section 8. She lost that.
Who is the custodian of this, of the Special Needs Trust? Her brother. Her brother.
So will you have access to the funds for this apartment, or does she have access to the funds? Right. So what I'm going to ask, if it's okay, if that works, if you agree that's just the right thing for me do.
No, it's not. So I can try to ask the brother for 14 months of pay in an account to me, and then I will transfer that to her monthly.
Is that okay? If funding is available for a whole year, is it safe for me to co-sign? I wouldn't. What if she trashes the place? Well, she won't trash the place, but she might, you know.
No, she's not like that, but she might have trouble with neighbors. That's the kind of problem she has.
Or gets kicked out or has four people over or gets sweet-talked into her. No, she won't have people over.
She'll just, like, she loves cats. She'll probably, you know, take care of them.
Break all the rules. Rules don't apply to her.
Yeah, that type all the rules rules don't apply to her yeah and judy we're gonna tell you no if this money's available then she can get the apartment under her name you can write the checks every month for her if she can't do that that's fine but you don't need to co-sign but how do i prove to the apartment people that there's money available? Well, you would have to have the money available. Yeah, print off a statement.
Can I show them? What do I do? Because we're in California. There's a lot of these places, and I don't live in the same town as she does.
So it's not easy for me to, like, take her somewhere and talk to someone, you know? Well, you get on the phone with the apartment manager, and you, this is what's going on. She has a special needs trust.
Brother's going to send you documentation. He's going to end the documentation, send it to the property manager and say, uh, we'll set aside the first 14 months and go ahead and just prepay the rent for 14 months.
That's fine too. Oh, just prepay.
Yeah. But you don't co-.
And they're going to try to get you to cosign.

Because you have a blind spot here, kiddo.

This lady, she's gotten a hold of your heart, and she's sweet,

and she does need someone to help her, but we need to define help very carefully.

Help involves her behaving, and you're not willing to make that requirement,

nor can you make that guarantee based on her 60 years of misbehavior right you're going to get screwed if you do this please don't do it okay it's going to go up in flames apartment okay so i told the apartment that i have money but i need to show some proof right that the trust Yeah, the brother's going to have to send documentation. Yeah, and by the way, you don't have this money, Judy.
You still have to go through a guy that you say doesn't even love her, doesn't care about her, doesn't care if she ends up on the street, right? So all of this is like two hypotheticals removed from reality. And let me help you with this, okay? It's not that he doesn't love her.
It's from the 16 times he tried to help her, and it burned him.

And he's done being burned, so he's putting up a boundary.

That's different than not loving.

And you're calling it not love in a dysfunctional family.

I'm calling her a dysfunctional person who needs love and help

but has burned everything around her to the ground to the point her own brother won't help her you can't put that on him i'm not going to let you do it yeah i don't even know him and i'm not going to let he's not the jerk in this story okay and there's not a jerk in this story there's a sad lady with mental illness and you're going to get burned to the ground when her mental illness activates if you're signed on the documents yeah don't sign just i don't know an apartment complex it won't take your check if you got it so if they won't take your money so she can get her own place listen i'm a landlord if i know what's going on here i'm not putting her in there that's fair that's fair because prepaying the rent ain't half my problem it's the 93 cats that end up in my building right or all the neighbors or whatever or she burns the neighbor's cat live in the front yard i don't know what's going to happen here right i don't know i don't know what's going on with her no i don't want her as a tenant under any circumstances co-signer prepaid double paid no thank you yeah life's too short to sign up for drama as a landlord so that's what you're gonna that's what you're gonna face on more than anything else so you're please honey don't don't confuse this and you you're trying to do a nice good noble thing in a really um naive and unwise way that was that was kind yeah that's the best way to say it and i think this is a bigger conversation dave when you want to help somebody and you get all these scenarios in your mind and then you spend all these nights and weeks worrying about it, all of this phone call could have been already headed off. You could have already sat down with your brother.
You could have already called an apartment complex and taken all these worrying variables off the table so that you know, okay, here's the final step here. And you probably would have found out a long time ago, you either don't do it be a cosigner or nobody's going to let her live there you're going to come up with another option right but there's always like well then i might do this and then after that i'm gonna do you don't even know if all this is is going to happen and you're so spun up about it just go find out find out i co-signed for stuff when i was young and foolish and i ended up paying it one poor guy co-signed for me i went He ended up paying it.
I had to go back and pay him later. His wife still don't like me 35 years later.
So it's okay. It's valid.
I mean, she got screwed. They didn't ultimately get it, but, I mean, she thought she did.
And so I get it. I completely get it.
Proverbs 17, 18 says in the Scripture, one lacking in sense cosigns for another. When I cosigned, Judy, I was lacking in cents.

If you cosign this, the Bible says you're lacking in cents.

I didn't say it.

Get mad at God.

Don't do it.

That was pretty good.

I mean, you kind of brought the Bible out, so there you go.

There we go.

Brought the Bible out.

Yeah, that's the final right there.

That's the final one.

That's the one.

Open phones at 888-825-5225. Kim is in New York.
Hi, Kim. How are you? Hi.
Thank you for taking my call. Sure.
What's up? Well, I wanted to know how to save money for a mortgage down payment while you're paying rent. Very hard.
It is. Yeah.
How much debt have you got? I can go through the

numbers and I can tell you. No, just how much debt have you got? Just give me the total.

I want to say about $40,000. How much of that's your car? Well, to me and my husband's together,

it's about, he owes, I owe $16,000 and he 16 and he owes about 20. Okay.
How much is the car? My car total with the insurance, just insurance or just the car? No, the debt on the car. How much debt is on the car? About 16.
Okay. All right.
Of your 40 or of your, yeah, of your 40. So half of it's your car.
Okay. Yeah.
So here's the simple answer, but it's not a simple answer, is when you don't have any debt payments, you'll have more room in your budget. So before you start worrying about saving for a down payment on a house, let's clear the debt off.
That may mean selling a car. It may mean taking an extra job.
It will mean not eating out.

It will mean not going on vacation so that I can get out of debt.

Because if you didn't have any payments, oh, you'd have money to save for your down payment.

That's where it comes from.

Your most powerful wealth-building tool is your income. Don't give it to somebody else, and then you'll have it to save for a down payment.
Simple but hard. This is The Ramsey Show.
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two-hour event hosted by Rachel Cruz and our own Dr. john deloney will will feature a lot of incredible parts of our money and marriage getaway they're going to be diving into real topics like goal setting budgeting sounds like a date night to me gosh you guys are a couple of romantics when i think about like growing up in your house i can that what it feels like.
You know what? We never had a single budget committee meeting with the children. I'm just saying.
All right. There will also be a Q&A so Rachel and John can answer your questions live.
This is happening October 29th. You can attend from anywhere from the comfort of your own living room.
You don't want to miss this one night to refresh your connection and communication.

It's $39 is all.

It goes up after October 6th, a couple of weeks from now.

You can get your tickets at RamseySolutions.com slash events,

money, and marriage date night virtual from your home on October 29th.

John, you and Rachel, let me tell you, guys, if you don't know,

the two of them just sitting back here in the office are a riot. And then we put on a microphone and add a little adrenaline to it.
Just for you guys, there are definitely two riots looking for a place to happen. And so it's worth the – if you just like good comedy, you will enjoy this because they're a lot of fun, both of them.
They're both very quick-witted. Very opinionated.
And very opinionated, and they're right and all that. So they'll help you.
She's not always right, Dave. They'll help you.
No, she's definitely not always right. But the – just thinking about – oh, well.
Anyway, yeah. So Rachel Cruz, my daughter, and Dr.
John Deloney, October the 29th, only $39. Ticket prices will go up soon.
Go to RamseySolutions.com slash events. It is a money and marriage date night.
There will be serious stuff. I don't want to overstate the comedy part.
It's a very serious topic. They're going to go through the details.
They're going to give you something for your money, give you something for your marriage, and give you something for both of those things working together. Don't miss it.
David is in Knoxville. Hi, David.
Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hello.
Hi. What's up? Well, my financial advisor has recommended that we shift.
I mean, we have historically just invested in mutual funds, as you've recommended, well, that we shift some money to a separate managed account.

And I just kind of wanted your opinion on that.

Well, a managed account in financial advisors' parlance is mutual funds.

Well, some of this was individual stocks. Okay.
Well, you can do that in a managed account um well that was yeah i would not do that i do not do that and i know more about individual stocks than your financial advisor does so um and i'm not doing that so no thank you um but a managed account most of the finance under the new fiduciary rules that came out about three years ago um erisa just and the sec just tore up that industry and so most of the accounts are now managed accounts meaning you pay like one percent of the portfolio a year and they manage the entire portfolio and it can be a portfolio of mutual funds, and that's what most of our SmartVestor pros use now. Now, we do not recommend using single stocks in that, but you can use that approach for mutual funds only is my point.
Okay. So, but, you know, let me tell you the downside, and I'm being critical because I don't know your guy, so I could be overstating this.
When a financial advisor says he can manage stocks better than a billion-dollar mutual fund can manage the exact same stocks inside the mutual fund, that screams of arrogance to me. Right.
Again, I know enough about it that I could easily make that case that I was going to do that. But all the data and all

the research that I have says I will not outperform the mutual fund with my little single stock

portfolio with my little financial advisor in Knoxville, Tennessee as my stock picker.

No, thank you. I'll pass.
But if he wants to do the other stuff, and I would be worried about that

in terms of your relationship with him personally. But if he wants to do the other stuff and i would be worried about that in terms of your relationship with him personally but uh but if he wants to run mutual funds my guy runs uh uh managed accounts i don't personally do that with mine because i'm old school and i've got all my stuff set up but both my all my kids run managed accounts with our local smart investor pro but it's all mutual funds in there is it a red flag if you get an out-of-the-blue call from your advisor saying,

hey, I'm recommending we move it all to X, Y, and Z?

Because the word on the street is that a managed care advisor will move you to packages

where there's some sort of kickback or they get an extra incentive to do so. of like on a lot they'll move so if they call you they can do that and some of them will but but it is a red flag if somebody starts moving big chunks around because it says that the original thing that they believe they no longer believe so this is a it's a philosophical statement sometimes yeah it is okay all right it is it's it's um there's something new that beats all of the data that we have.
And first, you know, I don't believe it. Okay? Yeah.
So, you know, all the data that we have, the average person buying and selling stocks on their own account with their own financial advisor loses money. You can't compete.
They lose money. Right.
They not only don't make money, they lose money on average. That's the data.
That's actual research. And so years ago, the Wall Street Journal did a funny article that they actually did this.
They took, the problem is the lack of diversification. Because you're picking seven stocks instead of 90 to 200.
Mutual fund has 90 to 200 stocks in it, which gives you a lot of safety. If you've got to pick five or three, you're betting the farm on a very narrow ledge here.
Okay? So they actually took a monkey and blindfolded the monkey and gave it darts, and it threw it at the wall and hit stocks. And they picked those stocks, and then they gave the stock pickers the right to go pick any three stocks they wanted to pick, and come back 18 months later, the blindfolded monkey beat most of them.
Point being, not that the guys are stupid. These are smart people picking these stocks.
But when you can only pick three and a mutual fund can have 90 to 200, your safety level goes away. You lose all the power of diversification.
And there's an arrogance to it that says, I can pick the stocks better than a guy running an American funds or a Fidelity or whatever, name whatever big mutual fund. Well, now it's you sitting in your house thinking, or some guy thinking, I can beat these supercomputers with all the AI tech.
Like, you can't. You can't.
Exactly. Exactly.
So the thing is, yeah, you know, like like for instance in a mutual fund they'll have um a whole team of researchers right so you have one guy or gal that comes to work in a car longer than your house and their only job is to study every detail of the automotive industry all day long for the last 25 years or they've sent some some guy who lives in South Africa for two years in a mine talking to the transactions. You can't beat that.
And you're going to compete with that with your guy in Knoxville, Tennessee. No, you're not.
Or Nashville, Tennessee, or Los Angeles, or New York. So because of the specialization of that, the nuances of that, that guy knows more about the automotive industry than I know.
I mean, he's going to pick a better automotive stock and know when to get in and out of Ford based on EVs or whether or not Tesla's going to burn up or not, literally, metaphorically, or whatever. And so all of that, he's got his finger on all that.
And so the mutual funds are just, they've got the best people on the planet and they've got a track record that shows it and they've got some they've got some a net they've got that you can spread it out yeah it's spread out spread your portions to seven yes to eight for disaster may come upon the land ecclesiastes all right freedom and you're dropping bible all day today freedom you've been on a bible trip for the last three weeks almost did yeah phoenix arizona freedom is with us hi freedom oh nope you're not with us at all because we're going into a break see what happens when you don't when you don't work for a while you don't even know where commercial breaks are that's how that works it feels like we're driving and i'm talking to my friend and you're just looking straight over at the're just looking right at the passenger. And, you know, the passenger's like, hey, look, red light, red light, red light! You're just talking, all excited, quoting scriptures.
Here it comes. Here it comes.
Dropping Ecclesiastes right in there, heading straight into commercial break. This is The Ramsey Show.
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Thank you for joining us, America. We're glad you're here.
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All right, today's question comes from Courtney in Washington. Courtney writes, I'm 23 and I've been married for one year.
Last night he admitted to me that I'm, I'm assuming husband. My husband admitted to me that I am better with money, meaning I don't like debt, and that he spends more than he makes.
He gave me his credit card and debit card to hold and asked me to give him an allowance for necessary purchases. He has a bad habit of using credit, payment plans, and buying too many toys.
I don't like the idea of holding his cards and controlling his actions. I understand accountability partnership, but I believe putting limitations on a full-grown man will lead to resentment in our marriage even if he asks for it.
Is his asking me to hold his cards reasonable? If I do hold his cards for a period, what can I do to make those spending habits stay gone? How do you get so wise at 23 years old? Courtney, you are Courtney. I was about to say the same thing, man.
Touchdown. Who is this person? It's amazing.
Wow. So I ate.
I want to give give i want to give uh i had this exact conversation i was probably 26 maybe 25 like i see the trajectory i see the things that plagued um my family growing up and i'm on the track and it was kind of like i need you to drive um now in retrospect i understand that that ended that started a power struggle between me and my wife that lasted years and years and years and so i like i'm i'm happy for this dude that he was like, hey, I'm not doing this right. I like his humility.
Yes, there you go. That's the beginning of repentance.
Gotta do this thing together. Gotta do it.
Just gotta do it together. Yeah.
Yeah, I'll start with that. What do you think, man? I think it's exactly right.
I mean, she's onto something here. She doesn't want to be his mommy.
His mom, that's it. She wants to be his wife.
And by the way, husbands, it is very hard for your mom to be romantically interested in you. And when you expect your wife to mother you, it does something to the desire and eros in your home.
Don't do that. Right? Work together.
He can, A, cut up the credit card and put his debit card in a drawer and get cash carry that and the two of you start doing a budget together and you pinky swear and spit shake that that's a contract and i'm sticking to this and that's my accountability we are going to work together not uh because no one should be doing it by themselves that's right or he can um he can text you and uh every time he feels like making a purchase just as purchase, just as a way to extend the gap. No, if it's in the budget, you can make the purchase.
No, no, no, but when he's about to impulse buy, not in the budget. You can't buy it if it's not in the budget.
No, no, I just want him to identify, oh, I'm about to do something stupid. And it's just extending that gap between stimulus and response.
You can do some of those kind of things. I did hand, I mean, here's the deal.
It's about putting in hurdles. But, yeah, I love her sense that she already feels like, hey, I'm going to end up as mom.
I don't like this. Yeah, that's very wise.
Way ahead. Yeah, the answer is no, I'm not going to take this over for you.
But yes, we're going to work together. And yes, as two grownups, we're going to agree on a plan that serves our future and serves our present and serves our household and serves our marriage.
And then we're going to stick to that plan as two adults. And when one of us that has an inner child wakes up and wants to go crazy at Costco, you have to stick to the plan.
That's right. Because there's hell to pay if you don't stick to the plan.
Right. And define what hell is, right? Hell is you go home and you didn't stick to the plan.
And your spouse is not going to be happy with you and i think it's an

important call i have told people just give your credit card or give your debit card to your spouse i was wrong on that i don't think that's wise i think what's wiser is if you can't control it then let's cut up both cards and you carry cash for a while and if you go get one reissued when you're ready well here's the thing what you need is a reason to control it when you have no boundary nothing is written down, then everything's okay.

And that includes includes you know the 92 gallon thing of mustard at costco which everyone needs we know that drum of mustard apparently because you can get it on a two-wheeler right and so uh you know but we impulse stupid butt stuff mainly because we don't have a any price to pay if we do it, and B, there was nothing in line before we got there. It's like I used to tell my kids, you know, about premarital sex.
I said, okay, we're going to sit down and we're going to have a discussion before you end up in the backseat. Because if you don't decide before you end up in the backseat, it's over when you get to the backseat.
That's right. So you got to decide before you get to Costco what you're going to spend.
And I'm not against Costco. I like Costco.
We're actually an endorser of theirs. But before you get to the restaurant, before you get to whatever.
And so you don't come home with a new bass boat and go, look what I did, honey. Can I tell you, as a former impulse buyer, just a clicker and buyer.
I am too. I have to deal with the fact that I was creating a life where I wasn't very alive.
Yeah. And if it wasn't that I was flipping channels, it was just a kind of life.
Yeah. Well, it's dull.
It's dull. And when I addressed that, how can I inject some life into my life? Dude, I don't think about it.
I remember the first time i went to sam's and got out without buying anything i thought it was like a spiritual victory i know dave's out in the parking lot i'm like i did it i got in and out didn't buy anything if we're celebrating i went into home depot the other day didn't have what i wanted i walked out and bought one thing you didn't even buy a tool. That was a huge, huge, that's a breakthrough.
That's a breakthrough. I'm proud of you.
It was good. My name is John and I like tools.
Yeah. Um, yeah, the, that's the thing guys.
So, but when you have a plan and here's what changed it for me, it's like, okay, I want a good future. I want a good marriage.
I want to be in agreement with my spouse more than anything Costcoco has that's the key and when it's written down and i made a promise i can't break my promise and if you're getting itchy i don't get itchy to break my promise underneath it doesn't come up i really don't now if i get itchy i just go i can't do it it's not in the plan yeah i gotta go do something else because the plan supersedes the itch i like it you, the contract with my wife, the word I gave to her that this is what we're going to spend our money on so that we freaking have a future.

That's it.

Now, that contract means a whole lot more than that stupid item.

That's it.

But you don't have anything to gauge that item against like that boundary.

Then and then all is fair.

You just buy everything.

Yep.

And the same thing is true. Your stupid Amazon button.
Click, click, click, click, click, submit, submit, submit. Empty the cart into your dadgum front porch.
And there's nothing in your life that's telling you no. There's no budget.
There's no plan. I can just go make some more money.
I'll out earnearn my stupidity. Submit, submit, submit.

Isn't it interesting that the word is submit? It's submit. Yeah.
I mean, it's a good little week. Bow down.
Bow down deeply and submit to the Amazon God. There's a great Instagram reel where there's a guy watching his wife, and she's doing yard work or something, and it's slowly panning panning and he said my goodness i won the lottery with the most amazing hard-working beautiful and it pans to the front porch and she's stacked up with boxes and he's like good god that's pretty good yeah it was pretty great it's good so yeah courtney kudos to you at 23 to grasp both of very very good humility and wisdom already for being humble enough to go at 23 man that's a that's a big manly thing to do to say i can't do this by myself because a lot of 23 year olds desperately don't want to look like a little boy and he he walked in there like a man and said i need some help and he turned he did the wrong thing and you you.
And you, you got onto that, but he did the, he did it for the right reasons. And you guys have the, uh, ingredients of an incredibly, uh, powerful marriage that becomes very wealthy and you've got it at a young age.
So congratulations. That's a great question.
Really, really good. So learning to work together.
And I got to tell you, there's certain segments of our culture, certain demographics, certain races, certain things where it's not unusual that that mama pays the bills and daddy brings home the bacon. And I'm stepping all in that stuff for some of you because you watched your mama do it.
It doesn't mean it's right. Or the daddy does it all mom doesn't ask any questions right yeah sharon kind of had the um i called it scarlet o'hara syndrome it's like do whatever you want to do honey and and if the children don't have clothes we'll just use the drapery it's like you gotta work together scarlet o'Hara Syndrome There it is Gotta work together This is the Ramsey Show Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions It's the Ramsey Show We help people Build wealth Do work That they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, host of the Dr.
John Deloney Show, PhD in Counseling.

He's our Ramsey Personality that is my co-host today.

I'm Dave Ramsey, your host.

The phone number here is 888-825-5225.

Freedom is with us in Phoenix, Arizona.

Hi, Freedom.

How are you? I'm, Freedom. How are you?

I'm pretty good.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

I am a baby brand new business owner.

I opened up a concrete company, and I was just wondering if I should finance a work truck or some heavy equipment, or if I should just keep grinding

little by little and pay for it by cash.

Okay.

Well, Freedom, if you listen to the show much, you know we tell people not to borrow money

and we don't borrow money.

You already knew that before you called, right?

Yes, sir.

Okay.

And I run a business.

I run a business called Ramsey Solutions. It started on my card table 32 years ago in my living room.
And we're sitting in a building and a campus that's worth somewhere around $600 million. And we have never borrowed a dime over that 30 years.
We've just taken our profits and reinvested and hustled and grinded and taken our profits and reinvested. The benefits of that, the downside of that is everything goes slower.
The benefit is you don't have to do it over because you don't crash every three years every time something goes upside down. And so I don't take many steps backwards.
All my steps are forward because i don't borrow money and so i never get pinched covid comes along i didn't get pinched i have no debt and a pile of cash i didn't get pinched other people doing what i'm doing are out of business because they couldn't cash flow their payroll when the government shut them down okay and so you got to pay those payments on that bulldozer dude whether you can use it or not

because well i was going to say weather but in phoenix there's no issue but yeah it's not like it's going to be a rain problem for you but anyway the uh but yeah something else happens um goes sideways in a maybe a presidential election and the market slowed down or something and you couldn't get work you got to pay the payments anyway on that dozer and it'll take you down so i would tell you to grow slower and more sure-footed some people would call it sustainable and i would just use your your name as my guidance i don't want to give up my freedom i don't but it's frustrating as a business owner i will you, there's been times over the years that I wanted to do something that I

really, really, really thought was a good idea business wise.

And I didn't have the money and I couldn't do it because I don't borrow money.

Um, but then something come along six months later that'll make me know, oh, that's why

I wasn't able to do that.

I would have been up a dadgum Creek if I'd have done that. And the thing that happens when you borrow money in business how long you've been doing this um concrete i just opened it up uh like a month ago okay so you got a lot of energy and enthusiasm right now right yes but i'm very um i'm trying to get a little discouraged because it is just me i'm just just a one-man guy trying to do a two-man job.
That's the hardest part of business until you get up. You get up to about 10 people where other people are doing some of the work, it's nice.
I'll tell you ahead of time. But even borrowing money into that won't work because you'll go sideways.
So here's what happens. Let me ask you this.
As an entrepreneur, I'm a fellow entrepreneur, every morning when I take my dog for a walk on the golf course, every morning when you take a shower, those of us that are entrepreneurs have six or 700 ideas by the time we get to work. I got an idea a minute.
Do you? Every hour. Okay.
There you go. All right.
So I can tell you from 30 years of doing this that 90% of my brilliant early morning cup of coffee ideas, when implemented, suck. I have survived in business.
90% of my ideas, I've made everything that you've heard of Dave Ramsey, all the money, all the brand recognition, all the celebrity or whatever it is you want to call this crap that I do. I've done all of it on about 10% of ideas.
You guys all know me for the 10% that worked. If I had borrowed money on the 90% that didn't work, I would be buried in bankruptcy many times over because when you borrow money you magnify your stupidity and that's what's coming so please i'm giving you my best sales pitch i bought it i bought it please don't give up your freedom please move a little slower go make you some money bust it bust it bust it get you some hires where you're not doing it by yourself.
Get you a piece. Rent a piece of equipment.
Turn it back in. Rent a piece of equipment.
Turn it back in. And then go buy you a used one that the guy who went into debt had to turn into the repo lot.
And go buy you a used one off the repo lot for the last guy that thought he had a great idea in your world. And it's everything, man.
It's everything. It changes.
80% of small businesses fail in the first five years. And the number one reason for failure, they say, is cash flow.
Cash flow is starved by two possible things in small business, not paying your freaking taxes and setting your sales tax aside and going in debt and having payments when you have payments and no revenue that's called cash flow problems and you go out of business it returns your dream into a nightmare i think the best um as i travel around the country the last four or five years in meeting small business owners especially i mean we see them all the time all the time. Entree leadership.
To a person who runs their business like this, there's this, it's the Bubba Gump shrimp scenario that when they don't have any payments, something comes along as a storm of some sort and they're the only boat left in the harbor and they get all of it, right? Yeah. We have Entree leaders come up for special luncheons up here sometime and I just hear it over and over we're the only ones in my neighborhood or my city that made it through covid on this particular weird little niche and now we have all the market share well and you got all the their employees that's we got everybody we got all the expertise that's right the best ones we got we buy their equipment at pennies on the dollar so you it's like you drive a minivan, drive a minivan, drive a minivan, then you get it all.

I've done it over and over and over again over the years.

And, you know, the fastest way to get rich quick is don't.

Is don't, yeah.

But there's a moment you just show up and show up and show up,

and then a moment happens, and you're in the right place.

But it is frustrating.

So frustrating.

It's frustrating because there's something in front of you,

and everything in your brain says it's going to work, and you've got to try it, and you you got to try it. And only after it doesn't work, do you know why it didn't work? Yeah.
And so you don't know what you don't know. And when you borrow into it, you magnify your stupidity.
I've been so tempted so many times. I could tell you 25 stories, but I don't have time of times that I, I really, really.
And then eight months later I go, oh, well, there you go. God protected me again.
I thought I was going to go down. And God just, because I always just say, all right, God, if you want me to do this, you got to send some money because I don't have any.
You got some. And if he doesn't send money, I figure he don't want me to do it.
Ta-da. That's a person of faith.
If you don't, if you're not a person of faith, you don't have that option um you're just kind of yelling at the sky at that point but um but in my case i'm just i truly believe god owns this and i truly believe if he wants us to have a computer he'll give us the money to buy the computer he wants us to have a building he'll give us the money to buy the building a bulldozer or whatever it is and um and until he does something's not right something's. And I'm waiting on that.
Frustrates the crud out of me because I really do want to be God and it's his job. This is The Ramsey Show.
This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right, you've heard me say this a thousand times and I'm going to keep saying it.
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That's RamseySolutions.com slash SmartT. Dr.
John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. The best way to win at something is to do it on purpose.
Very few times do people accidentally win. You don't accidentally become wealthy.
You execute a plan step-by-step over a period of time. You don't accidentally have a good marriage.
You execute a plan step-by-step over time. You don't accidentally raise great kids.
It doesn't happen. It's a process.
It's an intentional act, this thing called success. And the best way to make the most of your money is by creating and sticking to a plan, a monthly budget.
Every dollar, the world's best budgeting app, makes it simple to plan your spending, track your expenses, follow the baby steps, plan out every paycheck, be in agreement with your spouse, get out of debt. We teach you how to do every bit of it.
Download Every Dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play and click the link in the description if you're listening to YouTube or a podcast. Finn is in Detroit.
Hi, Finn. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.
Thanks for having me. Sure.
What's up? Yeah. So I'm 22.
I graduated a year early to not go into debt. I'm looking at a career change into counseling

and psychology, so I'm looking at going to grad school for counseling work in clinical psychology.

Right now, I have... A career change? Did you even start your other career?

No, no. I was interested in...
I'm a big photographer, so I was interested in photo

journalism and realized that traveling around all the time wasn't that sustainable. Okay, so you got a degree currently in what? Political science.
Which has nothing to do with any of this, okay. Yep, yep, yep.
All right. Yeah.
All right, so you want to go, you want to go, um, we need some more good mental health professionals. So good on you.
So what are you thinking about doing? Yeah. Yeah.
So I'm interested in a master's in counseling or social work and have been considering the possibility of trying to get into a doctoral program in clinical psych, because those are funded programs. Now, ultimately,

I need the background and the experience to get into those programs. In the meantime, I've been volunteering in psychology labs.
But imagine that if I can get into a master's program, I need the capital to be able to pay for that program. So right now I have about 22,000 saved.

Where'd you get that?

From saving and working

throughout high school and college good for you man well done what's the master's cost? what's the master's cost? about $35,000 probably? so depending on the program you can go for $30,000 you can go for $50,000 you can go for $ for 80 um a program like university of michigan costs 80

in state which is kind of crazy in my opinion yeah and then if you go for kind of a lesser tiered program but you're still getting the letters next to your name can be between 30 and 40. Do you know where my um the the woman that i see for a therapist you know where she went to school? No.
I have no idea. None.
Yeah. When I was at Belmont University, all the therapists who worked for me there, you know where they went to school? I don't know.
They're amazing therapists. And so my guess is a school like University of Michigan is going to be very research heavy and it's probably funded.
It's probably got a whole bunch of other steps to it. If you want to go be a research psychologist and less about working with people and more about learning statistics and learning about people and spending your life in a lab, be an amazing school to go to.
And you'll have to find out one of those funded PhD programs. If you want to just go be a social worker or clinical counselor in your local community, which is an, it's an amazing job to go to the best program in your community that you can afford.
And I'd strongly recommend, see if you can get a job at the university because those almost always come with some sort of tuition discount. And even better, if you can get a job in residence life, you get to live your mission.
You get to work with all kinds of people going through all kinds of struggles and challenges crazy like a crazy college student it is wow but that's that's when their family issues and their psychology issues and their emotional issues come up and addiction all kind of stuff um but also it comes with free housing too so that'd be what i would recommend you do i want you to go to grad school that's what. I love it.
And for my graduate counseling degree, I found the partnership with the university that would, that would fund it. And it was different than, um, my, my other PhD that I paid for out of pocket and I borrowed out of pocket and it nearly buried.
Yeah. How are you? Yeah.
How would a university get you those kinds of resources? What are you looking for? I'm looking for, for you, in your situation, I'm looking for any job I can get on a college campus that has a tuition reimbursement. Janitor.
Yeah, anything. Like RA, yeah, resident assistant in the dorm.
Anything you can do. If it gets you in their program and cuts the tuition in half, and now got 30 turning into 15 they're paying you and you've got 22 in the bank ding ding we're done with the masters that's right yeah yeah and at this point like in terms of investments on the site i mean no you know the best investment you can make is you it's you okay gotcha because here's what i want you to do and here's what you do with investments you're looking for roi sorry john go ahead yeah what's the roi on 80 grand versus 30 grand that's what we're looking at what's the return on investment okay john's telling you it's not there on the 80 yeah and he's got a phd in counseling you just called the right guy i have a phd in dumb you don't need my opinion but here's the other thing i want you to do i want you to go through this program i started with a very particular group of people that i wanted to work with i ended up in a radically different place because i had to do practicums and internships and I had different professors and I met different professionals along the way.
If you get out and you owe $30,000 or $50,000 and you know clinical counselors starting out don't make a ton of money, then you are going to have to do not what you want to do, what you feel passionate about, what you feel called to do. You're going to have to do whatever they tell you to do.
And I want a world of therapists out there that are not beholden to a bank but are beholden to their communities. That's what I really, really want because they're free to help everybody and anybody.
Not they have to pay their bills first, and that's heartbreaking for me. Okay? Yeah, yeah.
So go get them in. Get that master's degree.
Just don't borrow just don't seem like a person talking to you that 22 000 in the bank you ran that you ran this course already you knocked out three years you seem like a person that is very much a pragmatist very practical in your view on things i'm going to encourage you to lean into that everything we're telling you to do is right with who you already are. And shoot weddings on the side.

Shoot weddings all weekend.

You'll make cash.

Get your camera out, man.

Get some money.

Shoot weddings all Saturdays, all Sundays, all Friday nights when you're in grad school

and just work, work, work, work, work.

You'll get it out, man.

Good on you, dude.

That's good.

That's excellent.

You'll hear a lot of undergrads coming out with $22,000 in cash in the bank.

That's fantastic.

In three years.

In three years, yeah.

Knock it out.

That's a hard worker. He did it to stay out of debt.
That's right. Yeah, I wanted out of school.
Man, I'd go back tomorrow. I had no desire to stay.
I mean, I was working 60 hours a week. All I wanted was out so I could focus on work.
And, God, man, it was so hard. Open phones at 888-825-5225 john let's circle back uh because if you someone just tuned into this for the first time john has a phd in counseling a phd in higher ed and he was serving as dean of students several different universities when he came here okay he was at a local university is how we found him and we knew he he could do this job, and it's turned into a massive hit.

And so he and I have had this discussion. He's actually featured before we hired him in our documentary on student loan debt called Borrowed Future that you can watch for free now on YouTube.
So John and I have had this discussion many times. I have done, I've searched and searched and searched and searched and cannot find a single piece of research that is that is credible.
This is where you went to school is correlated with your level of success in any field. The the the research that exists there talks about it's less about the institution and more about the people you who also go to that institution so the basically the research says if you can get into some of these top top top top top tier schools where you will benefit over the long haul is who your classmates are because they're going to go start businesses and they're going to go become these fans and they're going to call you because y'all are pals and your buddies and you call the guys that you know and you went to school with but for the number of times that people say i want a cancer doctor because he went to that school that's it for 99 percent of us almost zero get out untethered get please go to college and i'm high on college you know that dave but go untethered get out so you don't own anybody i want a doctor that is not beholden to anyone but what is right i want a therapist or a pastor who's not beholden anybody but what is right.
There it is. This is The Ramsey Show.

I talked to people every day who want to know how to do better in two areas, money and relationships. That's why I'm pumped to bring the Money and Relationships Tour to a city near you.
Join me and Dr. John Deloney for a night that will challenge the way you think about this stuff and possibly change how you live forever.
Starting April 21st, we'll be in Louisville, then on to Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth, and Kansas City. Grab your tickets at RamseySolutions.com slash tour before they're gone.
Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage.
Mercy is with us. Hi, Mercy.
How are you? I'm doing good, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve.
Where do you live? I live in Temple, Texas. Cool.
Welcome to Nashville. Thank you.
And how much debt have you paid off, Mercy? I have paid off $18,000. Good for you.
And how long did that take? It took me around nine months, Dave. Good for you.
And your range of income during that time? $42,000. $42,000, okay.
And what kind of debt was the $18,000? That was my car, Dave. Yay! All right.
Mercy, how old are you? I'm 29 years old. Cool.
And what is your country of origin? I hear an accent. Right.
I was born and raised in Kenya, and I moved to the States three and a half years ago. Three and a half years ago.
Yes, sir. And 18 months ago, half that time, you started working on getting...
No, nine months ago, you started getting out of debt. You paid off $18,000 in debt.
So how does a girl in Texas from Kenya run into the Ramsey stuff and decide to get out of debt yeah so I joined the military last year January thank you for your service thank you and then I my first duty station Fort Cavazos Texas got there I needed a car and I did what I thought I should do got a card on payment and. And then I think less than two weeks later, I ran into Rachel on Instagram and I liked her message.
So I looked into it and I found the Ramsey show. And ever since that day, I have not missed an episode.
So I just got fired up. This is how I was, what you teach is really how I was raised.
Like if you don't have the money, you don't buy it.

Wait a minute, they teach you common sense in Kenya? Wow.

Yeah, so I thought it just clicked.

And then the teachings from the Bible as well.

So that resonated with me and I decided this debt had to go.

And then that's when I just started.

Doubled the payments, triple, living on nothing, rice and beans. And on April 30th, I became debt free.
Way to go. I'm so proud of you.
Thank you. Who was cheering you on along the way? So my family in Kenya, my son Jeremy, my family, my American family in Colorado.
and then after I became debt-free, I met my boyfriend, Tony, who's also doing the Dave Ramsey plan. And he has been cheering me on Baby Step 3.
And here we are today. All right.
Very cool. Way to go, Tony.
Good stuff. Good stuff.
Okay, tell me how this thing works. Because you're obviously, you've been here only three and a half years.
You joined the military. How does that work with your citizenship? I don't know.
So once you join, first of all, you acquire permanent residency. And then that's when you're able to join and serve.
And then through the military is when I got my citizenship last year in June. All right.
Yes. Awesome.
Wow, that's a good deal. Thank you.
Very cool. Good for you.
I'm proud of you. How does it feel to be free again? It's weightless.
I cannot explain it. Like going to, doing my budget every month and not seeing that extra payment that I would have paid the car dealership, it just, it feels, it's surreal.
Like I have so much money and you know yeah that five hundred dollars back is is everything and then I've also been able to my sister and I are cash flowing my grandmother's house in Kenya so that that's that has been a blessing and my grandmother raised us after I lost my mom when I was 10 and that has been it's been so you're able to buy her a house now yes we're building a building it by cash yes okay yes how long will it take to build it oh we're almost done actually um in by December she'll be in the house and we started as soon as I right before I became debt free and then uh it's been more money just chucked on it. How old is your grandmother? Close to 80.
Wow. Yes.
You're special. Thank you.
You're not even real, Mercy. This is amazing.
This is so extraordinary. I mean, Americans, y'all got to hear this.
She just traded an $18,000, $500 car payment and built her grandmother a house as a result in Kenya. That's who raised her.
That, you know, hello. That's legacy right there.
Wow. What's the picture? What's the house? So that was our whole house.
That's where you grew up? That's where I grew up, yeah. Okay.
I was, I think, built. And now you built her a new house I'm so proud of you Thank you That's the new house Oh wow That's awesome Look at the roof on that Those of you that aren't on YouTube Look deeply deeply into your radio.
Oh, my gosh. So, Mercy.
Mercy. I ran track in college, and the vast majority of my teammates were from Kenya.
Which means you were the slowest guy on the team. They used to call me Mzungu.
Yes. By far.
So, there was this understanding they got here, and there was so much opportunity and much wide eyed and how much how can i participate right away right now and it feels like this idea that oh you can just get it all right now don't worry about it we'll get it later that got you the car payment but right so if you if you don't know if you don't know how insidious this stuff is everything's shiny and new and this isn't just people who come from other foreign countries. This is all of us who are looking at our neighbors, looking around.
We see these shiny new things and we get so taken with them that I want it right now. And there's all these plans for, oh, that's a problem for future you.
Right. You right now needs this.
Right? Yeah. What do you tell somebody that is just looking around, seeing all this opportunity, but they don't know that it's not really real, right? So that's also a big thing that just not, I think sacrifice for me would be the biggest one.
Just knowing that, you know what, it's not, when Dave says you're driving and the guy, the car next to you, it's really nice and big and you want it but it's all payments so that that really i got it and i said i'm not going to feel jealous or want a life that i cannot afford i will do this brick by brick and yeah so like you say we get here we're told you have to have a credit score you have to have a credit card and you know we all believe that until because they say that's the only way but no it's not the only way there's a better way you know mercy's a hero you know who the real hero is the grandmother that raised that i'm telling you the grandmother that created that i'm telling you man that woman that's who we need to get on the air it's really amazing oh my gosh this is wonderful do me and dave an honor yes can you do a debt free scream in swahili this will be the first one ever yes and then you can do one if you want to another one english but if you want to do swahili i've never we've never had a swahili free scream or death free scream have we no for sure we haven't would you do that that would be amazing i would love that i would love to do both i'm so proud of you you're absolutely amazing i will tell you this before we do that that all the data that we have says that someone who comes to this country from another country legally i'm gonna i'm gonna pronunciate that care pronounce it carefully like she did comes here under the law you are four times more likely to become a millionaire than someone who was born in America. There's a lot of supposition on why that might be so, but some of it is that, you know, you actually appreciate the fact that we have freedom and opportunity, and you're going to take advantage of it.
And so you have a high likelihood, a much higher likelihood than maybe someone else that sits next to you there and at the you know at the post uh becoming a millionaire because of what you're doing and now add add the ramsey stuff to that the debt-free stuff to that work this guy this woman's going oh it's amazing all right mercy from temple texas what a story $18,000 paid off in nine months, making $42,000 from Kenya. We're going to start it out with Swahili.
Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream.
Tatu, Mbili, Moja, Sina, Danny. Woo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo.
I love it. Yeah.
That was rad. Thank you for that.
That was a gift to me. Thank you.
Good call, John. Good call.
All right, you want to do an American one too? Yes, sir. All right, let's do one English.
English. All right, here we go.
All right. Three, two, one.
I'm dead free! Wow! Yeah, baby! Woo! Oh, and I built my grandmother a house, too. Wow! Amazing, Mercy.
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All right. The question is from Brianna.
It says, I was one month from my lease being up and I had to leave early due to a domestic violence incident. I notified the property management company and sent them the email with proof of the protection order.
But just the other day, I went to check my credit and they put a $4,000 debt into collections. I'm appealing it, but if that doesn't work, should I just pay it? Okay.
What happened to you is wrong and horrible, but it does not release you from a lease. A protection order does not get you out of a lease.
You're appealing to their mercy at that point? Yeah. If they want to let you out, if you were one of my tenants, I would let you out.
But you can't just send them the email and go, I'm out. It's not a get-out- no pun intended um so you know you are liable for that last month i don't know how it got to four thousand dollars for one month you had one month left on the lease and now they're going to four thousand dollars i'm not sure what flip were you renting but um or they added a bunch of fees yeah or something or maybe the bozo stayed behind torch the place.
I don't know. I don't know what happened here, but you are still liable.
Even though you had a protection order, even though you sent an email that does not, this is not a one way thing where you just go, Oh, I'm out. No, you're not out unless they choose to let you out and they didn't respond.
You don't have a response from them, or at least you didn't mention it do saying we're going to let you go if you've got that response then you owe zero because they said we're going to let you go so you're free but i don't think you got that i think you just sent this to them and you thought that got you out that's the way this is worded anyway and it does not get you out i'm not an attorney but it doesn't get you out so um uh you know what i do, I don't know if you need to appeal it. Um, I would just call the property management company.
I'd go in person. If you're in the, if you're in the town, go over there and try to meet with a senior person and, uh, see if you can negotiate.
You, uh, you're going to have to pay some money because you, you know, you just kind of walk, you were in a horrible situation. needed to leave i'm not telling you you did something wrong but the assumption that you made that it got you out of the lease was incorrect right and so you you're going to owe some money now you got to go figure out what and what you can settle it for you if it's a four thousand dollar of legitimate charges or a bunch of them that are just beefed up or whatever you might might settle it for that equal to that one month's rent.
But you're going to end up paying something, I think. I don't think the judge is going to go, oh, well, you had a protection order.
You don't have to honor your contract. It's like saying I got a protection order, so I have to pay my car payment.
No, that's not how it works. So sorry.
You're going to end up paying something, Brianna. And the sooner you can get to somebody and get a settlement negotiation begun, you're better off to do it in person, and you're better off to do it with the actual people, not the stupid lawyers.
But if you can get that pulled off, that's going to be your best route because you're not going to get out of Dodge on this without paying something joe's in chesapeake virginia hi joe how are you hey dave how's it going better than i deserve what's up so uh beginning of this year we decided to uh my wife and i decided to take our debt seriously and uh now we have paid off thirty thousand dollars in student loans and credit card debt good for for you. Mostly from my job, and I've been fixing and flipping lawnmowers, trucks, equipment, tractors, all kinds of stuff.
Cool. How much money you made doing that? Honestly, normally about $4,000 to $5,000 a month.
Wow. Good for you.
Yeah. You're good at this.
Yes, sir. Yeah.
i've been working working hard i'm i'm a uh caterpillar mechanic that's my career so um i just kind of you know buy it buy what i can and fix it up well you know how to turn you know you know how to turn a wrench good for you man yes sir yep um my question is i'm i'm at the point where i need to start my uh my emergency fund to six-month emergency fund. Good.
And I've been looking at the high-yield savings account, and I see that the rate of return is, the one I found that I applied for was 5.31%. Mm-hmm.
My mortgage, I only owe 119 on it, the house that we built ourselves, and the interest rate on that is 4.3%.

So my question is, why should I not just put all of my income into the high-yield savings account

as long as the rate of return is greater than the interest owed?

Because if you make 1% on $100 thousand dollars it's a thousand dollars you don't have a thousand dollar problem you have a hundred and nineteen thousand dollar problem the secret to paying off your mortgage is not making one percent spread on a high yield savings account the secret to paying off your mortgage is do what you did with the $30,000 and pay off your mortgage. Okay.
The actual math of this theory that you're running won't buy you a biscuit. Okay.
That's what I'm saying. So you're making more money on tractors than you'll make on this in a week.
Uh-huh. me yes sir if you got a hundred thousand at five percent and a hundred thousand at four percent the spread is one percent one percent of one hundred thousand dollars is one thousand dollars per year you make that in a week flipping tractors okay so it's not it's not enough it's not enough to screw with it.
So just pay off your mortgage. Get your emergency fund done, and then go ahead and go through the baby steps four, five, and six, and you'll be in great shape, man.
Yeah, and I like to take that $1,000 and divide it monthly. $83.
That's your sleep tax, and you'll more than make that back. $83 a month.

To sleep deeper than you've ever slept in your life because nobody can take your house away.

Yeah, just pay it off as fast as you can.

Just nail it.

Hammer it.

Do it, do it, do it.

Don't mess around with it.

Don't play games.

Good for you.

Good question.

All right, Sam's in Syracuse.

Hi, Sam.

How are you?

I'm good, Dave.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

Hey, so I feel like it's a dumb question but um you're in the right place a couple of dumb guys we got you hey so i've been with my girlfriend now for almost a little over a year um i accumulated a large sum of debt before I got with her while I was in the military.

And I want to move forward with our relationship.

We've discussed it for the last, you know, two months or so.

I have the money set aside for the ring.

How much? About $3 the ring. How much?

About $3,500.

How much in debt do you have?

I would say it's roughly around $50,000.

And what's it on?

It's a few things.

So one of them is a credit card, which is $25,000.

One is from a repo from a previous relationship. What do you make a year? I make about 65 a year, I would say.
I call about... You 24? 4,200.
26. 26.
Okay. Almost like I've done this before.
Okay. And you're saying you want to wait to get out of debt to get married? I, and that's the thing is like, I, you know, I've heard a few different answers to that question.
Unless they're this answer, they're wrong. The correct answer is get married.
Okay. If you're pledged to get out of debt and she's pledged to get out of debt with you and you're aligned and in agreement on your money, get married.

That's one of the big reasons why I fell in love with her.

You know, I was very open and honest.

Don't tell her I think I've got $50,000.

Tell her I have $49,462 in debt, and it's exactly this,

and this is exactly what I'm going to do to get out

because I'm the kind of man you want to marry because I'm getting this done.

I'm a go-getter. That's who you need to be.
Don't give me, I think I make,

I think I'm in debt. Get it exact and kill it.
This is the Ramsey Show. We'll see you next time.