The Key to Building Wealth Is Maximizing Your Earning Potential

Music Music Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. This is the Ramsey Show.
We help people build wealth, find work, and do work that they actually love, and create amazing relationships.

Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality host of the Ken Coleman Show, is my co-host today.

He's also a number one best-selling author and expert in the worlds of career and work.

We're here to help you. The phone number is 888-825-5225.

Al in Raleigh starts off this hour. Hey, Al, welcome to the Ramsey Show.
Hi, Dave. How are you? I got Raleigh and Allie all tied up there for a second.
So I'm beautiful, man. How can I help? All right.
So I'm calling because it's career advice. I got out of the military last year, and since then I've been between a few jobs.
I'm currently working as a trucker now, and I'm a full-time college student. I'm going to school online about halfway through with that.
I'm on baby steps four, five, and six. Thank you for that.
And basically I'm having a lot of self-doubt and kind of falling out of love with my degree program and more in love with my job right now. And I don't know which one I should pursue more heavily.
If I should buckle down and keep going, finish out my degree, and hope I fall back in love with the program. What's the degree direction? Electrical engineering.
Interesting. And you've fallen in love with trucking, huh? Driving the truck? I have.
I'm very fortunate right now to be working a local position so I don't have to go over the road or nothing. Monday through Friday, you know, reasonable times.
To be with the family on the weekends. So I'm very fortunate with that.
Yeah, so that's a pretty all-inclusive gig in the truck, and you either love that or you hate it. I don't find a lot of guys that are middle ground on that, and I think that's really interesting.
I think you have to listen to that. The question I have is, if you were to slow down, you're halfway through it.
I'm assuming you got the GI Bill, so you're not paying out of pocket for the degree correct that's correct and you chose electrical engineering i'm wondering because maybe you did some of that type of work in the military or no was it just out of left field no no no um so prior to the military um i was on the robotics team in high school i really enjoyed it yeah um but after doing 11 years in the infantry i of, I got tired of being a dumb grunt. I wanted to go back and use my brain, but it feels like things are piling up.
And like I said, I'm having some self-doubt on it. What's piling up? There's the answer.
What's piling up? Describe what you mean. Well, as the course load gets more and more um i i find myself having difficulty concentrating on the work um like when i'm on and the days and the days are going well i i get it and everything clicks and everything moves along but on the days i'm not and there's quite a lot of them um just getting my thoughts together is really, really hard.
Okay, so what I want you to focus then is what led you into the electrical engineering degree. And obviously there's something from your past, robotics.
You love to work with your head and your hands. You've got that kind of wiring in your brain, but it doesn't mean that this particular path is the best path for you.
And so I would not make any decision to walk away from the degree right now, but I would take 30 days just as a ballpark figure to really dive into what are some fields that I am intrigued by, I am interested in, that would involve that type of engineering brain that wouldn't require the degree and that class work and that type of work. Because I think there's some silver lining in here in that you've done some robotics in the past.
You're intrigued on some days. You're thriving on some days and not on others.
And that could be course-related and the type of work. So instead of throwing it all out, I want you to actually dive in a little bit more.
And it's almost an old school exercise. I got a pad.
Hold on one second, Dave. I got a pad right here.
And I'm going to go to those classes on the days that I'm struggling. I want to write down what's making me struggle, what's causing me to struggle.
And in the days that I'm thriving, why am I thriving? I would dive into that a little bit more over 30 days before deciding to get out of the degree experience. Absolutely.
I completely agree. Hey, Al, when I was in college, I went to this, I went in this one class, and when I left there the third day, I felt really dumb.
It was really hard. Are you struggling with that? Academically, it was straining my brain.
No, no. Academically, I mean, I maintain good grades, but there's just some self-doubt creeping in just because.
Yeah, you mentioned dumb grunt earlier. Yeah, just that.
And I'm a little bit afraid. I'm a little bit afraid that this is like your first academic challenge, and I kind of want to encourage you to push through it because I think you got the stuff.
Okay. Because I think it's self-doubt.
I don't think it's reality. Am I wrong? No, I don't think you're wrong.
Okay. And you may need some, during the 30 days, you may need to set your study habits pattern up better.
Because it sounds like your catch is catch can. And if you've got something that's deep and that is scratching the back of your brain, like I'm talking about, that's very hard academically.
It's like thick and weighty and hard to push through i've been in those classes and i don't like them because it pisses me off when i can't get something quick and um you know if you have to do that the only way to push through that is a study habit pattern that gets you real quiet real centered away from humans no distractions and you push through the concepts and get your head around your head around them. And that's going to take you on through the, if you've got a heavy academic thing, it'll push you through it.
Study habits will do it. And the study setting, the setting.
And if you're trying to do this, like, while you eat dinner at the truck stop, that ain't going to work, man. Al, I'm curious.
Is there a job in your mind that if we offered that to you today, we fast-forwarded all the degree stuff, and you got to go do it, if you've got something in your mind right now, would you do that over trucking if you didn't have to struggle through all this and all the doubt went away and we just gave you the opportunity to step into it? Yes, 100%. You would 100% take that type of work over trucking? Absolutely.
Okay, so there's the answer yeah so there's the answer so again yeah the exercise i gave you plus what dave is telling you um you have to identify what's causing the self-doubt and that's the source of this once we get to the bottom of so fear is i'm afraid something bad is going to happen it's cousin is doubt and doubt is i don't think something good can happen. And that's what you're dealing with.
I don't know. I'm two years in.
I don't know that I can get through this, that anybody will hire me because I was just a military grunt. I'm just a truck driver.
I think, Dave, that's the source. It's a narrative in Al's head that he's not good enough.
That's exactly. That's what I was getting at.
Yeah. Yeah.
And what I'm hearing is actually you are good enough. You've actually got the stuff.
Because you didn't tell me there's no way I can do this. You didn't say that.
You're like, I can do it. I'm getting the grades.
I've just got to get my habits and the rhythm. You know what else you might do? You might visit someone that is actually doing what you want to do someday.
Spend time with them. Maybe hang out with them.
Maybe who you're hanging out with is telling you you can't do it. You got to be careful who you hang out with.
I asked you, Al, if we give it to you, would you take it? You said 100%. Then go get it.
So go take it. Go get it.
Nobody's going to give it to you. Get them.
Get them. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.
All right, you've heard me say this a thousand times, and I'm going to keep saying it. You're worth being well, and I believe therapy can help.
Right now, BetterHelp is offering 90% off your first week of therapy, now through March 31st. So if you've been on the fence, this is your chance to try therapy for a fraction of the cost.
Because let's be honest, we all spend money on things we hope will make us feel better, like new clothes, organic groceries, gym memberships. But when it comes to actually digging in and getting real with our mental and emotional well-being, we hesitate.
We pause. And I know actually going to therapy can seem like a huge first step, but please hear me.
Your mental and emotional health are just as important as your physical health. BetterHelp makes therapy more accessible than you think because it's online, so you can talk with your therapist when it works for your schedule.
You just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist, and you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. Your well-being is worth it, and this offer makes it easier than ever to start.
90% off your first week of therapy now through March 31, 2025.

Visit BetterHelp.com slash Deloney to get started.

That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Deloney.

Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America.
We're so glad you're here. Open phones at 888-877-877-877-877-877-877-877-877, Dave.
Hi, Ken. Thanks for taking the call.
Sure. What's up? Well, I need some perspective.
I appreciate the last caller because I think you gave me a little bit on that call, but I'm looking for some more. I'm currently on baby step two.
I've been four years gazelle intense, and I'm going to be looking at a court date here tomorrow that's going to end up increasing that debt to about the tune of $25,000. dollars.
Um, I have literally been good, well intense for four years, even during COVID

and my gas tank is on empty. Um, I'm just not seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.
And I don't know if I can keep up the pace that I've been doing. I have three jobs and I'm just, my gas tank is empty.
So I don't know if I'm, I'm looking at a bankruptcy or if I have to do something not stupid. I'm sorry.
How much debt have you got, not counting tomorrow? $10,000. And I literally was coming for a debt-free stream in October.
What's your income? My income is $45,000 a year. I've upped it to $55 even during COVID,

but the problem I'm having is I end up in court

because all these extra debts are attorney fees.

And every time I go to court,

I don't seem to be in good favor with the court.

My child support has increased.

So it's a very long journey, and I'm tired you you you pay child support I do we have 50 50 custody and it doesn't work out in my favor anytime I go to court because he's a full-time student they can 10 15 hour okay and what's the 25,000 tomorrow tomorrow is the attorney's fee for the last two years of litigation.

You owe $25,000 to an attorney?

Yes, sir.

Over child support?

Yes, sir.

It was because of COVID.

It was extended, extended, extended, extended, extended.

So it's just. Well, if he wasn't working while it's extended, extended, extended, extended, extended.
So it's just.

Well, if he wasn't working while it's extended, why did the bill keep going up? Because my ex-husband made sure that the bill kept going. He kept putting things in there and we kept having to respond.
So, you know, as each response happened, it's that $2.50 an hour, you know. So it just, it's really spun out of control.
Yeah. You needed a new attorney.
I'm pardon me. You needed a new attorney, $25,000 ago.
I agree with you, sir, but unfortunately I gave him a retainer and I had nothing left in the tank after that. That was my emergency fund.
yeah I I know. When you make $60,000 and you spend $25,000 on child support, that's not in balance.
I totally agree with you, sir. I'm not fussing at you.
I'm just crying with you. No, please.
Fuss at me. No, you don't need to be fussed at.
You've gotten fussed at enough.

You just got a mess, kiddo.

Yep.

So you owe the attorney's fees, and the attorney has sued you for the fees?

Yeah, tomorrow is the day.

We go to the judge.

We've stayed off.

We've done everything to try and... Yeah, you're going to lose because you owe the money.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, yeah, I'm going to lose.

Yeah, exactly.

Well, you owe the money.

I mean, it's not a...

There's not really a thing to, you know, he sucks as an attorney. It's not a defense.
Correct. For the attorney fees.
I mean, you took them on. Yes.
And this guy knows that you make $60,000 a year. He represented me for two and a half years.
And he knows that you don't have any money.

He knows that. What does he think

this is going to accomplish? Do we have any

idea? I truly don't

know. I just guess he wants to garnish

my wages, which is going to basically leave

me and my daughter in a big deficit.

It's going to change our world.

So...

Do you have... I'm looking for options, I guess, or perspective.
Yeah. So.

Do you have.

I'm looking for options, I guess, or perspective.

I would just tell him that we're either going to have to work something out that is a tremendous discount,

and I'll go scrape some money together and give you a lump sum at a tremendous discount,

or I'm going to help you to get zero because that's called a chapter seven bankruptcy. And, and, and that's kind of what I did on my own because I knew what I was up against.
You told him that. Yeah.
I basically said, you know what I have and you can go forward with this, but you know what's going to happen. And I basically, you know, laid it onto him and he pushed the, I'm looking at this bankruptcy head on, and I want to know I'm doing the right thing.
Trying to stay a step above and a step ahead for my daughter's sake. Well, I always tell folks if you're going to file bankruptcy, and I never recommend it.
It's a horrible process to go through. But if you're going to, make sure you've tried every single thing you can try before you do it.
Because it is a life-altering thing. It's in the same category as a divorce.
It's something you want to avoid if there's any way you can. So you try everything.
Now, you've tried almost everything here, but here's the thing. Even if he gets the judgment tomorrow, and he probably will, then he has to act on it.
And until he actually does act on it, it just sits there. Well, he's pushed the motion to put in a – he's already filed the motion to garnish my wages.
But there's not even a judgment is there a judgment already well we put a stay on it is my understanding on the judgment correct okay so well the day the garnish you know the day the garnishment hits that might be the day that you make your decision that you've done everything you can do well the day the garnishment hits I'm gonna have to move I mean I'm on that tight no no no no no no if you file chapter 7 bankruptcy there's no garnishment it goes away understood okay so I'm saying if he if he actually does do that not just threatens it and so what we want to be careful of that is that we've we've you know one more time I'll talk to him one more time I'll say listen if you do this and just say it. And so what we want to be careful of is that we've, you know, one more time I'll talk to them.
One more time I'll say, listen, if you do this, and just say it out loud, just say, you're not getting a garnishment. Okay, I had this negotiation one time.
I was negotiating for a business guy that had a bank debt with a local bank, and I'm sitting with the banker, and the banker says, we're going to foreclose on the property, which obviously a bankruptcy stops a foreclosure.

And I said, no, you're not.

He goes, oh, yeah, I am.

Yeah, I am.

I said, no.

We're either going to – there's two options. We're either going to work out something as we sit here with you guys and negotiate out some kind of settlement or the guy's going into a Chapter 11 bankruptcy or a 7 bankruptcy.

But you're not foreclosing on the property.

I can keep you from foreclosing on the property. So let's establish that you're not going to foreclose.
Now, it's either because of a bankruptcy or because we work something out. So which one do you want to do? It's your choice.
Because, well, and then he comes up, well, we're going to foreclose. I'm like, dude, you're not real smart, are you? What I just said was going you're not going to be allowed to foreclosure federal court's going to stop you or you're going to come to an agreement today but foreclosure is not going to occur that's the type of conversation I would have with this attorney okay there's not going to be a garnishment either I'm going to stop you with a chapter seven and you're going to to get zero in that case, or you and I work something out.
And those type of ultimatum discussions in a negotiation are sometimes the last thing you can do. And you want to do everything you can do to try to avoid this.
You fought so hard. You've come so close.
And it would be a bloody shame for this one thing to take you down. Yeah.
And practically speaking here, whatever the amount is, I'm assuming, Dave, that the lawyer has shared what the amount is, the garnish would be. And so we've got to figure.
So if he's going to get anything, it's that number or less that he agrees to. And then you look at, okay, can I keep doing three jobs? And it doesn't sound like she can do three more jobs.
Three jobs, much more. Her tank is empty.
Well, her tank's empty because she just keeps getting piled on. Yeah, but if she can push through and manage to make that money a better second job, a better paying second job, that's that last resort to, okay, if I can settle this with this guy and not go into bankruptcy.
I give him five grand cash and go borrow it. That's interesting.
Yeah. You know, that's what I, because, you know, I'd rather have 25.
I'd rather have five grand death than 25. Yeah, that's true.
But, I mean, we'll settle with you one way or another here. But try some stuff like that, Regina, because sometimes these guys, they just, you have to explain it to them.
They're not smart sometimes. I mean, dumb lawyers are everywhere.
Oh, Lord of mercy. I'm sorry, honey.
Hey, hang on. We're going to hook you up with one of our coaches, one of our financial coaches, see if they can walk you through this.
You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies and there's too little life insurance or none at all. Grieving families are suddenly left behind scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet.
I also discovered that there are a lot of ripoffs in the life insurance world, like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity. What you need is level term life insurance, usually 10 to 12 times your income, which is the smartest, most affordable way to protect your family.
The key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for you, not for the insurance company. This is exactly what my friend Jeff Zander and his team at Zander Insurance are all about.
They shop the term life companies to find you the best options, and they've been around for over 95 years. So you know they'll be there when you need them.
Zander is the real deal, and that's why they've handled all my personal insurance for over 25 years. I trust them, and you can too.
Visit Zander.com for instant online quotes, or for a more personal touch, give them a call at 800-356-4282. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today.
Open phones at 888-825-5225. Ashley's in Greenville, South Carolina.

Hi, Ashley.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hey, Dave.

Thanks for taking my call.

Sure.

What's up?

All right.

So my question is a business-related one.

Not this past September, but the year before, I purchased a bakery that was eight years old.

It was a mom-and-pop bakery for about $105,000. Um, it was really small over the year.
We improved it. Um, we did some renovations on our own dollar.
We didn't, um, pay for them. Um, and unfortunately it's not been, it's not been successful and I'm having to close it.
Um, that's okay. It's, it is what it is.
Um it is. And my question is, originally my landlord, I have five more years left on the lease.
My landlord said, that's fine. I'll let you out of it.
And that was great. However, he called last week and asked me how things were going, how things were moving out.

And I mentioned that I was moving some of the equipment out. He was under the assumption that the equipment that was built around, the base that was built around the equipment he owned.
However, the couple that I purchased the bakery from actually sold it to me. I have purchased documents for it.
And he is holding my equipment hostage by not letting me out of the lease unless I leave the equipment. I have considered, I've looked up chapter seven bankruptcy because that would give me 60 days to assume or reject the lease of which I would reject the lease.
And then my assets, including the equipment, would be sold to pay off my debt.

However, I do not have any debt for the business.

It's an LLC, and I decided to get out of the business before I went into debt.

Did you sign the lease personally?

I did, yes.

Okay.

The lease is not in the LLC's name.

It's in your name, so.

It is.

It is in the LLC's name, yes. Oh, did you guarantee it personally? Yes.
Okay. It doesn't matter.
It's your personal lease. You're personally liable on the lease is what you're telling me.
Okay. Right? Yes.
Okay. And how much is the lease payments monthly? They are currently $622.40.
They go up by a certain percentage every year starting in October. So you have five years of $7,000, so you've got somewhere around $35,000 exposure, right? Correct.
What's the equipment worth? It's less than $10,000 worth of equipment. Why do you want it? Because I'm hopeful that I can maybe start it again one day, and it would relieve some of the startup costs down the road.
Do you have any money? I have about $20,000 in personal savings, and that's about it. I sunk all of my life savings into the first business.
If you were going to buy this equipment right now in your situation, used, what would you be willing to pay for it? Let's say you let him have it, and the next day you walked into a garage sale and you found this same piece of equipment sitting in someone's basement. What would you buy it for? Or would you buy it you buy it tomorrow would you wait till later um i that's a really great great question um the one piece of equipment that's really i'm hanging on to is um the oven because it's an old oven and the old ones are the best because they don't and you found it in someone's basement tomorrow at a garage sale what would you pay for it? I would pay probably upwards of $1,000 for it.
$1,000? Correct. Okay.
All right. So I think you can sit.
Number one, the first thing you need to do is with this landlord, you need to sit down in person. Yes, we are.
We're meeting on Wednesday. Good, good.
person i think he's not a dishonorable person as a matter of fact he's got a lot of mercy he's just letting you out of 35 000 he's already got someone lined up but he will he's letting you out of 35 000 that's not a bad i mean it's not a bad guy he could have held you to it for a thousand dollar oven i mean it's not a bad, I mean, it's not a bad guy. He could have held you to it.
For a $1,000 oven, I mean, it's not a bad trade. So at the end of the day, if I have to negotiate away the $1,000 oven in order to get out of a $35,000 exposure, it's gone.
He can have the oven. But I would ask him about it and just say, listen, we honestly, I think you're an honest guy and you think I'm honest and we're just, we just did not have alignment on this one subject.
Would you be willing to sell me the oven? Because it's the only piece I'm particularly interested in at a, you know, at whatever, at salvage price, which is probably $500 or $1,000. That's the only thing that I care about.
And the rest of it is I care about getting out of the lease. Could we work that out?

Yeah, it still just gets me that I've already bought the oven, so I don't want to pay him for it.

You're missing the part where you got out of a $35,000 liability.

That probably gets him that the tenant he had just decided they weren't going to pay.

Yeah, but he's wanted me out of there since I signed the lease because he can charge double for the people that have already lined up for it. Okay.
You do what you want to do. That's what I would do.
I would consider this a blessing, and I would, in a horrible situation with a heartbreak, I'd let him keep the oven or I'd give him $1,000 or $500 for it and get the documents signed to completely relieve you of any liability, LLC or personal, further on this lease so that he can go forward. I guess if you want to play hardball from a negotiating standpoint, you could because it sounds like he's chomping at the bit to get you out of there and you could just say you know what i think i'm just going to give you another 600 bucks to stay here a while and make him lose his potential tenant because you keep paying yeah if he doesn't you know if you if you won't let me have the oven i think i'm just going to keep paying the rent because I think the oven's mine.
I've got a bill of sale for it. But, you know, honestly, I personally wouldn't do that.
I personally would. This is a horrible thing you're going through.
It's an emotional thing you're going through. The failure of a business is a crisis of identity.
Anytime I close a major area that we tried here at Ramsey, it's me admitting that I was stupid and I hate admitting that. Yet sometimes I am stupid and, but I get the opportunity running a business to admit it occasionally.
And, um, it's not fun. It's really not fun.
I'm sorry. It really is emotional.
Um, I wouldn't screw this whole thing up over a grand. I promise you, I wouldn't.
You're going to lose that the first time you meet with an attorney. They charge you a thousand dollars for driving past their office.
Just like it's a drive-by fee. You know, I mean, it's like, yes.
Well, I think you made a very good point that she fails to see. Obviously there's some tension there and she feels like, well, he has somebody else lined up.
I found him. She mentioned that.
So she feels like she's doing some good, but we cannot forget the fact that this guy is going to let her out of $35,000 contracted commitment. You can't forget that.
And I could be wrong, but maybe the new tenant needs the oven. I think there's a reason.
This guy is not a jerk. I think he's like, you know what? I'll let you out of $35,000.
I'm going to keep the oven. That's a pretty fair trade.
It it's a tenant improvement and you're walking away scot-free. And so if I were the landlord on the other side, even if I had another tenant lined up, I would think that's a fair deal.
I think it's a very fair deal. So it's up to you though.
You can do what you want to do. Let me ask you this, Dave.
You could drag it out. If he's got the other tenant and he could lose the other tenant by you delaying him, that's a way to screw with it if you want to do it.
But do so at your own peril. But I was going to ask you, because you've been a landlord, you are a landlord.
If she hacks him off in some way or just starts negotiating, he's like, wait a second. I'm letting you out of this deal, and I don't want the stinking of it.
And he could hold her to this contract. He could hold her to $35,000.
He could put her in some real trouble. But she says that he's got somebody wanting to pay double.
So, you know, that's the leverage back and forth. I don't know.
I mean, to me, that's almost irrelevant, though. It's what the deal is to you.
Yeah. The deal is you personally put your pen to paper and said, I will pay you $35,000.
And he says, hey, you brought me another tenant, I'll let you out. That's an act of mercy.
It's not a legal requirement or a moral or an ethical requirement. And, you know, if he misunderstood and thought the tenant improvements became his after the act of mercy, then that's something you can discuss with him, and I'm recommending you discuss it.
But wouldn't push it too hard. It's a thousand bucks for 35.
It's a good trade. This is the Ramsey show.
What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get 10

different answers. Economic growth or a recession.
Business taxes will go up or down. AI will help us

work or it will replace us all. But there's no such thing as a crystal ball.
That's why more than

I'm going to go, the number one cloud enterprise resource planning system. Ramsey Solutions uses NetSuite, and you should too.
Whether your company's earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities. With one unified business management suite, there's only one source of truth for the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions.
NetSuite's real-time insights and forecasting help you see into the future with actionable data. And when you're closing the books in days, not weeks, you can spend less time looking backward and more time focusing on what's next.
And speaking of what's next, download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning at netsuite.com slash ramsey.

It's free at netsuite.com slash ramsey.

Today's question of the day is brought to you by Y-Refi.

If you're in over your head with private student loans and you're tired of getting calls from collection agencies, you need Y-Refi. Y-Refi refinances defaulted private student loans that other places won't touch, and they give you a low fixed rate loan customized to you so you can actually pay your bill.
That's pretty cool. It's a good way to get the whole thing straightened out.
Go to yrefy.com slash Ramsey today. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey.
Might not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Aiden in Virginia.
I had a work accident that put me out of work for a few weeks. When I returned to work on light duty, I was assigned to a different department.
I enjoy it and have been asked to stay in this position, which will come with a hefty pay increase. The only downside is that if I choose to stay in this position, a work friend of mine will probably be fired.
He's the person who encouraged me to grow in my relationship with God and to do the baby steps to tackle my finance issues. How do I save my friendship with my coworker if they fire him and give me his position? I'm scared that he will think I've been faking the friendship and just trying to take his job.
I don't want to lose this opportunity at work, but also don't want to be the cause of my friend losing his job. Well, Aiden, I'm a little confused with the way the question is worded because they've put you in a position and they want you to stay in this position.
and I don't see the connection to where that position was his position

because he's still there. So if you know something we don't know and you've got a hunch here, if your hunch is right, this is a pretty sticky situation.
It's a pretty tough situation. And I don't have a quick answer to that, although what I would do is they've asked you to stay in this position, so that implies they like you and you've got a little bit of leverage to say, hey, here's a question.
If I take this, I've heard this or I'm feeling this, is this true? Because you've got some hunch or somebody's told you something, and I would go to the leader in a private meeting, and I would ask the leader if this is in fact true. I would not assume anything.
Exactly. I think you've added drama to this.
Yeah. I don't know if that's true.
The way you've worded this, it doesn't sound like it's a lock. So here's the thing.
Business ethics are fairly easy. So, treat other people like you want to be treated.
Okay, so you switch shoes. How would you want your friend to treat you if it was you? I can tell you what I'd want them to do.
I'd want them to come clean, tell the whole bunch. If I'm you, I'd walk in the boss's office and I say, boss, thank you for this position.
I am so grateful. I'm so excited.
But I got to tell you, if it means that my friend gets fired, I can't do it to him. I'm not going to be the cause of my friend losing his job.
As much as I want this, I would love to have this job. But I will not.
I cannot do that. It's wrong for me to cause my friend to get his head chopped off.
No. That's the answer.
I agree. And if you lose the job, you lose the job.
But you got to sleep with Aiden.

You got to look in the mirror.

You got to put your head on the pillow at night and go, whew, I feel pretty good. Yeah.
That sucked. I lost that position, but I did the right thing.
I got to tell you, man, you can sleep when you do the right thing. Even if the right thing hurts, even if the right thing leaves a mark, you can sleep.
and you don't get to your deathbed, you know, many years from now,

with this stuff swimming around in your head, wishing you hadn't done this crap. Yeah, I agree.
But let's get to the bottom, and let's make sure this is, in fact, the case. It doesn't feel like that the way it's been set up here.
If you just put all this stuff on the table, it makes everybody that's trying to do stuff behind the curtain pay pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. You rip the curtain open, shine a spotlight on the whole thing, and just say it all out loud.
As Deloney says, turn all the lights on. And by the way, that advice, when he says it that way, he's taking the high road.
And in that situation, he can read the body language, read the tone, read the stumbling, the stammering, if in fact that happens. And now he has a really good idea and he doesn't hurt his brand within the building.
It's a win, win, win all the way around to handle it that way. Absolutely.
And if they're willing to lie and go behind your friend's back and slit his throat, you're next, buddy. That's true.
It makes you think you're different. So this ain't the sweetest job in the world all of a sudden.
It's a toxic environment, and you want to get out of there anyway. So the process of flipping on all the lights reveals everything here.
All right, boys and girls. It's like, Ken, one of of my favorite things not sarcasm um is someone comes in my office and says you know i need to tell you something about such and such but i i you can't use my name and i'm like well you can't tell me right because you because you're you're what's known as a gutless wonder right you know and no you can't And no, you can't tell me.
I don't, if you can't stand behind your problem, then you're just a gossip. And I'm not going to, as a leader, I'm not going to act on anonymous sources.
You can kiss my anonymous source. Not a chance we're doing that.
No way. That's just gutless, man.
Yeah, I agree. I agree.
agree crazy zach is on the line zach is in calgary hey zach what's up hey can you hear me all right absolutely how can we help perfect um yeah so i've been looking for um an outside opinion on my situation here um and i know you guys are going to give me a straight answer so you can count on that brother yeah um so we are a little tight on mortgage me and my wife um we knew that what's that mean you know well it's probably north of 40 percent of our take-home. Yeah, that sucks.

Yes.

We're trying to get some advice on what we should do.

What is the probability that your income

is going to increase dramatically quickly?

Unless I take side jobs consistently

and work 12 hours plus a day,

not likely. You want to do all that just to keep a house i don't no not really you sell the house you bought a house you can't afford yeah um if your income's not gonna go if your income's not gonna go up fairly quick not i mean you know in the next year two years or something like that to where this is

where the house payment ends up being 25 maybe 30 percent of your take-home rather than 40 percent you're you're you know you're in an unsustainable mathematical situation you don't have any wiggle room in your dadgum budget you are what we call house the house owns you you don't own the house Oh, I feel it.

Yeah.

Our other idea was with a job offer about two weeks ago that's in a smaller town that pays less, but we could buy a house cash or have a very small mortgage and maybe $100K. What would keep you from doing that? It's a small, small town.
You don't want to live there. Okay's good it's a good answer yeah nothing wrong with any of this and so here's another option get a better job yeah and stay where you are well that's the thing i'm uh i'm a plumber and i got one of the better paying jobs in calgary so what's your wife do uh she's a home mom okay homeschooling her kiddos okay all right yeah you guys just you you you got um house fever which causes the brain to stop working and causes us to purchase something we can't afford and then the fever went away and the bill is still there and you woke up and realized you'd made a mistake and so i I'm sorry, you either have to get your income up or you have to get rid of this house.
These are your two options. There's nothing else that's going to work here, man.
What you're sitting in and you've discovered this, you knew it before you called us. It's unsustainable.
You cannot win. Everything you do after you pay this house payment is hard because the house payment is just eating your lunch.
No pun intended. So, I mean, it's just it's hard.
I've done it, too, Zach. I mean, I've done that kind of thing.
You go, oh, crap. What did I do? You know, you get, oh, man, it's hard.
But the good news is you can sell it. And, you know, it's not a tattoo tattoo it's not going to be there forever so you can get rid of it that's a plan get rid of it sell the house sorry that puts us out of the ramsey show in the books live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions it's the ramseysey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice.
Ken Coleman, number one best-selling author, Ramsey personality, host of the Ken Coleman Show, is my co-host today. We help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.
So you've got questions about your life, your career, your money, we're here to help. Open phones, 888-825-5225.
Caleb is in Charlotte, North Carolina to start this hour off. Hi, Caleb, how are you? Good, Dave.
Thank you for taking my call. My pleasure.
How can we help? So I'm in the middle, or I guess I should say the beginning stages of starting a business. And I'm wondering if it is the best idea to take any profit and put it straight back into the business so I can keep doing it debt free.
Or would it be better to take the profit and pay off personal debt, which would be, because right now we're in kind of the middle stages of baby step two on our personal debt. I currently have a full-time job, which is in addition to the business, so the business is separate.
Okay. And so you can get out of debt on your full-time job.
Are you married? Yes. Does your wife work outside the home? No, my wife is a stay-at-home mom.
We've got a So what do you make in the day job? About 140. Good for you.
Okay. How much debt have you got? Right now we're probably around 18,000.
Okay. Yeah.
Stop your whining and get out of debt. Really, seriously.
140 over 18? Knock it out, dude. Well, that's a new, it was a big jump recently.
Okay, good. I'm messing with you.
The bottom line is your numbers are fabulous. You've got a big old shovel and a small hole.
So let's just knock out that 18, and that's the good news. Now you've got the side business, and you can afford to take all the side business

and pour your money back in out of that.

We're not borrowing money for business ever.

Sure.

You will insure your failure if you do for multiple reasons.

Yeah, especially in a small business situation.

I mean, this is throwing off a lot of cash.

What is the expense that you're thinking about that you'd have to cash flow versus uh going to debt well it's not um so it's going to be a baseball training facility um i'm will be leasing the building so i won't be in debt for for that um it'll just be equipment and how fast or how much equipment I want to start out with versus,

you know, just kind of growing a little more organically.

Yeah, organically.

Stick with organic, man.

It's just, you don't want to stress yourself out.

And this, I'm guessing, is the dream.

Is this something you eventually want to step into full-time or you want to keep it on the side?

Eventually, I would like it to be full-time.

Baseball is kind of my background. It has been for a long long time and the job I'm in right now, I love.

Um, um, but it, it may not be more than a 10 year thing, you know?

Um, so eventually I would like it to be able to support my family full time.

Sure.

Well, good.

Then organic is the way to go or else that dream could become a nightmare.

Dave's right.

You just don't need debt on this.

And you're so close. Here's a couple of things.
Yeah. Here Here's a couple things, Caleb, we teach in Andre Leadership on this.
When you grow a business with actual cash, you purchase different things at a different speed than you do when you use other people's money. You're more careful about what you buy and you're more careful about what you pay for what you buy because it's like real money.
That's right. And there's a reality to that.
The second thing that happens is it forces you to grow to make your purchases slower, and you're going to be learning about the business. You're going to get what we always laughingly call learnings, which are mistakes that leave scars and you're going to you know you're going to learn stuff that would tell you not to purchase something that you might have if you'd gone ahead of the learning and the cash holds you back and kind of keeps you by dealing with only cash it keeps you from going ahead of what what you've got to learn yet and so you don't make us, you don't, you don't, and then the third thing is when we borrow, here's the deal.
I've been doing this business for 30 plus years. 90% of my ideas suck.
About, and this is a world-class, nationally known brand. And all of the 10 million people that have gone through Financial Peace University, the 22 million people listening to this, all of that impact is because of about 10% of our ideas.
The other 90% of our ideas, we survived them because they were stupid. And the problem is when you're going for your walk in the morning or you're running the morning or you're sitting on the back porch with a cup of coffee all your all your ideas are brilliant and when you put them out there in the real world you just determine that they're not and when you borrow money into the wrong thing you magnify the size of the mistake because you do stupid on steroids and so when you use cash it causes you to go at the speed of your learning it you'll learn you'll make better purchases and more careful purchases and you don't magnify your mistakes because there's 100 percent of the time you're going to make mistakes it's brilliant and one thing to add to that caleb cash increases, cash increases your innovation.
Because if you're borrowing money, you go, oh, I'm going to buy this equipment, this equipment, because everybody else does it. And when you got to go cash, you go, how do I teach the baseball swing? Or how do I do this without a bunch of fancy equipment? It really does increase your innovation.
Because when you don't have cash, when you don't have the cash, but you still want to grow it, you you go how can i do this the least expensive way and the imagination takes over and that's what leads to innovation craig rochelle talks about this so that i was just going to mention him the limited resources when you realize your resources are limited and everybody's resources are limited but the borrowing of takes away that effect temporarily but the limited resource forces the creativity that's correct and it forces you get scrappy and you scratch a new claw and scrappy always wins and uh the some of the more shameful errors we have made at ramsey were when we got a little bit fat and we had a little bit of cash we had a little bit of room and we just went well what is about that and then all of a sudden you you lose that scrappiness you lose that creativity you lose uh you know forcing to learn the techniques blocking and tackling goes to the side and we think we're too good for it and um you know and and you're looking for an easy button and there's just not a freaking easy That's right. So you're really doing a good thing here, Caleb.
You're really doing a good thing. Yeah, you've got a great situation with a great day job to pay off your debts and to continue building your finances, and 100% of the profits on that business can go back into that business, grow it organically, grow at the speed of cash.
You know, we built this building three years ago years ago four years ago whatever it was uh the only thing the newspaper actually got right because they never get anything right on me um they make up crap when they want to but um anyway they ramsey is building the building at the speed of cash yeah and. And that was the headline.
Oh, good.

And after you got past the headline, nothing in the article was accurate.

But, you know, like it never is, right?

That's right.

An accurate headline.

But, I mean, that's it.

That's all they got. That's what I told the little guy.

We're building the building at the speed of cash.

In other words, if we run out of cash, we're going to stop building.

There you go.

This is the Ramsey Show. There's a time in your life and at the baby steps for renting, but you don't want to do it forever because when you rent, you're still paying for a mortgage, just somebody else's.
Plus, rent means instability in your budget because it always goes up, never down. So when you're ready to buy, make sure you work with a mortgage partner you can rely on, Churchill Mortgage.
Churchill is Ramsey-trusted to help you make the move from renting to home ownership wisely. Churchill understands that when you buy a home the Ramsey way, your mortgage payment will be a consistent, manageable part of your monthly budget.
Plus, when your home is paid off, that was your largest expense. Now it's extra money in your pocket and an asset towards turning you into a Baby Steps millionaire.
So get started on the American dream of home ownership today at churchillmortgage.com. That's churchillmortgage.com.
This is a paid advertisement. NMLS ID 1591.
NMLS ConsumerAccess.org. Equal housing lender.
1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100. Brentwood, Tennessee 37027.
Listen, I know a lot of you would rather watch paint dry in slow motion than file your taxes. But thankfully, you don't have to dread filing when you've got Ramsey Smart Tax.
It comes packed with everything you need to file online before the big deadline. That means all major federal forms and deductions are covered with no hidden fees.
Plus, with Ramsey Smart Tax, you can save up to 70% compared to other tax software out there. It's a no-brainer.
Just go to RamseySolutions.com slash Smart Tax and see how simple tax filing can be. That's RamseySolutions.com slash Smart Tax.
Thanks for joining us, America. We're glad you're here.
Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Mark is with us.
Mark is in Atlanta, Georgia. Hey, Mark, how are you? Hey, good afternoon for me here.
Great to talk to you and Ken. I'm 56 years old.
I have a 47-year-old wife, three boys. Just got laid off unexpectedly from a $250K per year job.
Thought I'd have it for at least a couple more years. He had net worth over $3 million.
Of that, $1.5 million now in an IRA. Half a million in funds and stocks and a $1 million paid-for house.
No debt whatsoever. My question is, well, for one, does that seem like enough to retire on if need be? But I'm also thinking about pursuing teaching.
So I'm not going to be able to get any cash. I have $150,000 in cash, but I can't tap my IRA until I'm 59 1� half.
But you've got a half million in investments non-IRA. I do.
Okay. I think you're going to be okay.
I don't really want to use that, though. I had a financial advisor recommend tapping my mortgage temporarily because it would be cheaper than tapping the IRA.
than tapping the IRA. Well, you're a financial advisor, you're a dumb butt.
You're kidding me. He's telling you to go into debt and you have a $3 million net worth with a half a million dollar investment portfolio that's non-retirement? Just use your money, man.
Just sell stocks, pay taxes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, let's not forget, Mark, you told us briefly you wanted to teach. So you're not teaching for free.
So based on your financial situation, how much money do you need to make to where you wouldn't even have to tap any of that money or very little? Yeah, I mean, that's what I'm wondering. I mean, I think we'll need, you know, I got three boys, you know, soon to be college.
Most of that's going to be handled already, but, you know, but, you know, the teaching, it's going to take a little while to get certified, and that's probably a $56,000 a year job. That's correct.
It's more, you know, almost, you know, more like a little volunteer work. Why are you, so would you have wanted to transition to teaching? It's interesting, you said, I was hoping to do that for a couple more years.
Had you already begun to think, I'm going to keep my quarter million dollar job for two, three more years, then go into teaching? Was that already the plan before the layoff? Yeah, absolutely. Just, you know, I want to give back.
I'm an Army veteran. What were you doing? My Army days, you mean my job? Yeah.
It was institutional capital markets. Here's a question I have.
I just wonder why you aren't looking to get back in the game, making about the same, maybe even more, and get back on track with the plan you already had. It just feels like you've accepted this idea that, well, I got laid off two or three years earlier than my ideal timeline.
And so now all I can do is draw some retirement here. And I just wonder why not get back in the game? Yeah, it's either that or, you know, start getting into teaching, which will take a year or two to get certified.
We'll get back in the game and get the teaching certification. Don't make a half million dollars while you're your teaching certification.
$250 a year. It'll take a half a year or so to get a job.
How do you know? If I can find one. Because I've been looking around a little bit.
When did you get laid off? A month ago. Yeah.
Okay. When you say looking around, what does that mean? And specifically what are you what are you doing actively talking to people that are in the industry i mean basically what i did was a very unique capital markets job and it's not easily replaceable all right um it's something that um you know basically is some of it's going to be automated and some of it's you know just just managed away.
Okay, so hold on a second. So I can hear it all over you.
You feel like I was so niche I can't do anything else, and that's not true. You have skills and experience that were related to a very specific job that are transferable in a similar industry, yes or no? Yes.
Then again, I mean, listen, let me acknowledge something, Mark. The data says that losing a job, being laid off, has the same psychological and emotional impact on us as losing a loved one.
So that was a month ago. And so I want to make sure that it doesn't feel like I'm pushing you too hard here.
I think this has rocked your world. It's thrown your timeline off and it's understandable.
And so you've got to process and heal from this. But I think part of the residue that's on you from this real loss is that you think that you are extremely limited.
And if you hear nothing else from me and Dave, you're not limited. You're 56.
You're not 96. You've got a lot of skill, a lot of experience.
And dare I say you have a lot of connections too, yes or no? Absolutely. Mark, I want you to feel a hug through the phone here.
You've got to get back in there, man. You've got a lot to offer.
And I think this plan you have, and by the way, thank you for serving our country. You're a great American.
You're a great American, and you've got a lot to offer and i think this plan you have and by the way thank you for serving our country you're a great american yes you're a great american and you've got a lot to give still dave that's what i'm feeling it's okay let's say that i'm called immediately to teach and i hear what you're saying that sounds good you're not you're escaping to it that's that's you waving a white flag because you're hurting well if you were called immediately to teach you would have quit and gone got your teaching certificate you got laid off and then decided and then you're going to try to tell me you're called i'm not buying it yeah i hear you okay but here's the deal mark even if you don't want to go the route of get back on the path to a two to three year plan what dave and i are saying is go get gainfully employed make as much money as possible don't just fall back on that retirement reserve well they just don't use the half million but we're not borrowing on a heloc absolutely you probably need a new financial advisor. Okay, so let me ask you this.
I'm curious, okay? What is it that you're wanting to teach and why? Ultimately, I want to teach high school business and finance because I have so much to give and so much knowledge that's going to waste if I don't give it back. What would be wrong with doing that at the college level? I'm not interested.
You know, it's definitely harder. You know, it would be more strenuous on me.
I don't want to go into that type of environment. I like kids that are still molded,

you know, that are in their, you know, in their teens, you know, as an old army sergeant, you know, I feel like, uh, you know, I can be a, you know, a stake in the ground as far as right and wrong to a lot of these kids. One of my favorite finance professors teaching real estate syndication in my senior year was teaching a graduate level class that I jumped over and took, even though I wasn't doing grad work, was a practitioner like you.

He had no... in my senior year was teaching a graduate level class that I jumped over and took, even though I wasn't doing grad work, was a practitioner like you.
He was not a PhD. He was not a certified professor.
He stepped over and taught three different high-end finance classes to college seniors when I was in college. And to this day, I remember that guy.
And he actually had a cookout for the class at his house we went to his house I can drive to his house right now and that was 43 years ago I bet he doesn't live there anymore but uh but I mean I I think you might be that guy and oh by the way that pays a lot more than 56,000 a year yeah that's exactly right and uh honestly the stuff that you know uh high school seniors can't comprehend uh the stuff you've been doing uh it's it's graduate level and uh senior finance level stuff you can go do this if you want to um i'm just challenging the overarching thing that this is what giving back necessarily means so um if you want to teach basic financial literacy hey financial literacy, um, Hey, we'll give you a financial piece. Uh, uh, we'll give you the foundations and personal finance high school curriculum that's been taught in 48% of the high schools.
And you can go teach it for your high school. Once you get certified to be a math teacher, but it seems a little crazy to me that a guy that is as qualified as you has to go get certified to teach math to seniors in high school because you can do math in your sleep yeah what we want you to hear mark is you got options and you felt like a guy you present like a guy who doesn't have many options and one option you don't have is a heloc that is absolutely unnecessary and uh heal from this get your head up shoulders back and look at some options to get back on that two to three year plan.
I think things are going to develop as you begin to look for them. This is the Ramsey Show.
I talk to people every day who want to know how to do better in two areas, money and relationships. That's why I'm pumped to bring the Money and Relationships Tour to a city near you.
Join me and Dr. John Deloney for a night that will challenge the way you think about this stuff and possibly change how you live forever.
Starting April 21st, we'll be in Louisville, then on to Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth, and Kansas City. Grab your tickets at RamseySolutions.com slash tour before they're gone.
Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage. Ty and Lottie are with us.
Hey, guys, how are you? Good. How are you? Good.
How are you doing? Better than we deserve. Welcome.
Good to have you guys. Where do you live? Amarillo, Texas.
All right. Bit of a haul over to Nashville.
Just a little bit. Yeah.
Good to have you guys. How much debt have you paid off? $582,000.
Goodness. How long did this take? We started in 2013 and then just finished up here.
I think it was in July or August. So 10 years.
10 years. Yeah.
Wow. And your range of income during that decade? It was anywhere from $65,000 to $114,000.
We sold some houses, and I sold a business in the midst of that, too, so it kind of had some variation there, too. Gotcha.
Okay. But that was my W-2 income.
Gotcha. What do you guys do for a living now? I actually work for the Department of Energy energy but before this i've always traded commodities or traded some type of feed so that i just didn't like that and actually i read kim coleman's book and decided to take take a change in life really how's that working out love it good it's a great we're on a we're on a we're on the 13th day of our road trip to get here just to have a vacation and dollywood and everything oh Oh, I'm going to come see you guys.
Yeah, I'm going to come see y'all guys. Wow, there you go.
Five-year plan of a trip right here. There we go.
Lottie, what do you do? I'm a stay-at-home mom. Good.
We have four kids going on five. Oh, congratulations.
Thank you. Well done.
All right, what kind of debt was the $582,000? Oh, we had it all. Some of it was just I farmed and run cattle, so I had a lot of farm debt.
I had a house, a $50,000 Duramax, man, zero interest. They'll do it every day of the week for you.
Wow. I had a Nissan car, and we had our house.
It was about $235,000. Tiffany's rings for this young lady.

They financed that too.

Don't worry. Yeah.
I had about $20,000 worth of student loan that she paid for because she saved money before we got married. So she came into a mess before she decided to take me on.
And then, yeah, I had some farm debts and stuff like that. I also took even a $5,000 trading class to learn how to trade futures or online.
Come to find out you can't trade unless you have money. It's kind of a table steak.
I tried to tell him. Yeah, she tried to tell him.
I'm going to claim that one's one of my stupid tax right there. I don't have any money because I just spent it all on the class that tells me I need to have money.
Yeah, I was kind of sitting there about halfway through it thinking, man, this is dumb. I think there's something on my shoe.
I think I stepped in it. Wow.
Good for you, man. That's so cool.
So you went from playa to cleaning up the mess because everything you said there was like, I do everything, man. like, boom.
And now you're just like, boom, straight and narrow. Yeah, really what drove me onto this deal is when I first came out of college, I bought cattle for a major packet company.
I spent a lot of time in Western Kansas, and there was only AM radio over there. There was Dave Ramsey, Focus on the Family, and Rush Limbaugh.
That was my theology in And I, every day I'm just spending time riding around looking at cattle and listening to you. And I've basically, that started in 2006 and never stopped.
Wow. Well, thank you.
We appreciate you being out there. Yeah.
Good stuff. Okay.
So who decides 10 years ago we're actually going to do this stuff? Well, we, we started off trying to kind of cheat it a little bit because some people say i'm cheap i like to say frugal but um when i saw the price of the envelopes i was like we don't need the envelopes we'll just kind of do it you know and so after about a year of that and we were still fighting about money um we decided we need to take this seriously um you know if it's not broke don't fix it so we went ahead and kind of got the, we lived out in the country. So we just got the at home study program and watched through that together.
Financial Peace University at home. Yeah.
Bought the envelopes, started doing the cash system, set up our budget. We had to do that budget meeting, you know, every month sitting down together and kind of getting that going.
So that was kind of the hard part at first. But then once we got the ball rolling, we found other things to fight about, but we didn't fight about money anymore.
So it just, it kind of made everything organized. We knew what to expect of each other and where we were at.
And it just kind of went from there. And like you say, it's just that boring consistency.
You just do the same thing over and over, and then you see it make progress, and it gets really exciting. Yeah.
There you go. And for her, it just was a security thing.
I mean, that was one thing that I noticed that really she just – that was the rough part for her. Even for me, I mean, growing up as a kid, I mean, my parents, they're good people, but we had some financial problems growing up.
We had bankruptcy, and bankruptcy and man that just that i don't want that for my kids yeah and i want them to know that what we've done as a sacrifice as a as a couple yeah now you're free yeah yeah you're free when you talk about the grass feeling different there's some truth to that yeah there is a lot of truth and that's one of the don't know if we, we actually, before we got our debt paid off, we passed the millionaire mark and it was just like, I don't know. I just, I still don't believe it.
I kept looking at the spreadsheet because I was a spreadsheeter before you had the every dollar app and, and kept looking. I'm like, that can't be possible, but it just, a lot of dedication and a lot of time.
And that was probably the hardest part for me. A decade 100% debt-free and baby steps millionaires yeah and we just we that was the consistency like there'd be some times where you're just like man i when does this end and but there was if you saw it on the paperwork you know it eventually was coming to an end i want you to talk about that stay right there because a lot of people that are in the middle of their journey and they're we know they're watching and listening and they feel they're feeling it today they're going i don't know if i can finish yeah what did you do or what would you tell you how'd you keep going what'd you tell well you know honestly that one that was uh i'll bring our faith into that one i mean god was good to us even i'll admit when we were we made the least amount of money we made the most because we were the best with it at that time you know more money more problems type scenario and that's probably where we were as a group you know as me and her and even the lord in our life that's where we really we had to bunker down and just be tough and not go you know forget about it we're just gonna go on vacation we just didn't do that kind of know, you just have to stay strong.
And it comes through. You didn't wig out.
Yeah, it didn't wig out. Yeah.
I think we both got to the point where you realize you make a mess of your life, you know, and that really God's the only one that can fix it. So it's great to have a program and it has great principles in it.
But if you don't have God at the center where you can take your mess to him, then the principles only get you so far. And so God really was central to our story and got us through a lot of the hard things that we went through.
Amen. Amen.
Amen. Well, and it, you know, when you're a person of faith and you're leaning into that and you realize the system I'm using has the principles from his word in the system, then that tells you also I'm going to be okay.
Yeah. Youurance from that when sharon and i were walking that out you know it's like okay i get it that some of you people don't understand but i don't care this is what dad says to do and dad's really smart my heavenly father and sometimes even what he says doesn't make sense and you don't understand it i just have to assume he's smarter than me exactly i'm gonna go with it because i'm not doing so good on my own so yeah he's smarter than me i know that i'm sure of that yeah i've never made a world so i'm pretty sure he's smarter than me that that whole that whole you know the the uh debtor's slave to the lender and that is i mean i i took my first loan out was with the usda when i was nine years old on some cattle And so I wrote my life away at nine years old and I knew nothing else until me and her got married.
Yeah. And now the other day, your baby steps millionaires, not a debt in the world.
Yeah. Amen on that one.
I will tell you what not to do because you talk about some people are the nerd and some are the fun spenders. Well, he's definitely more the nerd.
And so he's a spreadsheet guy, like you said um but he would make his spreadsheet and he would bring it to bed and be all excited like look at this oh boy we gotta have some boundaries here yes you're a romantic don't bring the spreadsheet to bed and show me we'll talk about that over coffee in the morning i'm thinking i don't want to see the spreadsheet now yeah i could be wrong oh my gosh wow yeah that's nerdy for us So he's definitely the nerd. I could be wrong.
Oh my gosh. Wow.
Yeah, that's nerdy for us. So he's definitely the nerd.
I love you guys. You're fun.
Well done. Hey, we've got a copy of the Baby Steps Millionaires book because that's you.
Total Money Makeover book because that's you. And Financial Peace University because that's you.
You can give those away. You can read them, whatever you want to do.
They're our gift to you. Bring the kiddos up and let's have a debt-free scream.
What are their names and ages? We have Adeline, which is our oldest, and she's 10. We have August at 7.
Then we have Piper. She's 5.
And then we have Dax. And he's fixing to be 2 in November.
And then number 5 will be born in March. Love it.
$582,000 paid in 10 years, making 65 to 11000. Count it down.
Let's hear a debt-free scream. You guys ready? Three, two, one.
We're debt-free! Yeah! That's how they do it now, Marilla, boys and girls. Woo! I love it.
You spend hours researching before making a major purchase, like a home or car, but it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage. To protect your biggest assets, I recommend using Ramsey Trusted Pros.
Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsey Trusted Providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you need at RamseySolutions.com slash insurance.
Ken Coleman is my co-host. Jimmy is in San Antonio.
Hi, Jimmy. How are you? Hey there, Dave.
How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Yeah, I sent it a question.
Your dude got in contact with me, and now I got to ask it to you in person. So in today's world of like five-round interviews, automatic rejection systems, and like thousands of people applying for the same jobs.

How do you think that a 20-something-year-old dude might try and stand out in today's job market? Personal connection to the extent that you can find it. And I say this, this is general advice, and I understand that at times it can be more difficult than others.
But if you can find a personal connection, and it may be one to one, it's more likely one to two, meaning two or three people between you and a person in that building. So if you're applying for company ABC, and the first thing you want to do is just figure out through all of your connections, your close social ties.
that's your friends and family, people you're

doing life with, and then all of your relationships from acquaintances to former friends at college, Facebook, the socials, all of that. You start to see if you can find somebody that knows somebody in the building at ABC.
And what we're trying to do there is through the credibility of relationships, will that person at company ABC take your resume?

And even though you've got to go through all the other stuff, the AI and all the filters, will they take your resume in and talk to the hiring manager and go, hey, listen, here's how I know Jimmy. And this is what I know about Jimmy.
And, you know, I think Jimmy's probably a really good candidate to look at. We really want to be that simple.
We want to be that analog in a very digital world. That's going to make you stand out.
There's some credibility. Now, there's no guarantee for that.
The second piece of advice I would give is if you get into the interview process, the way to stand out in today's world, and I think has always been the way to stand out, is the questions you ask in the interview. Most people don't treat an interview, Jimmy, like the interview is just as much for them as it is for the company that's looking at you.
This is a dating thing. What are some good questions he could ask? Great.
So first question I would ask is, tell me the kind of person that wins in this role. This is to the hiring manager.
Describe the person that you think is going to win in this role. Okay.
Another question is, describe your leadership and management style. What would someone need to know to thrive and connect well with you? These are two very interesting questions that require that hiring manager actually think.
And in this process, if they've actually thought about that and they haven't answered, they're going to give you an answer. You get to assess if you think you're a good fit there.
The second thing it will do is whether they got a great answer for it or not, you're going to stand out because you put them on their heels in a good way. In other words, you didn't ask a twerp question.
You asked an insightful question that implies that you want to fill that role. And that's the way you ask it.
Those are two samples, but I've got a how to win the interview resource at KenColeman.com that's free, that goes into great detail, so I don't have to list all those out. But that's how you stand out in today's interview process.
Well, and it kind of, I think it's always just a good idea to put the employer shoes on yes so i i'm i mean i i as an employer i don't personally do interviews at ramsey anymore ever i'm not good at it for one thing but um the uh what i'm looking for is if they're asking questions that tell me they're a taker, how much does pay? Yeah, that's exactly right. How much time off I get? Right.
You're just trying to figure out how little amount of work you can do for how much money, right? Mm-hmm. Instead, I like questions.
They're not a taker. They're not subtraction.
They're addition. That's right.
They're not division, they're multiplication.

And so how can I add value?

The question you asked, I like that one.

It's like, what kind of person wins here?

If I came in here, what's the advice you would say to move ahead at Ramsey?

Yeah, that's a great question.

And how can I add value?

How can I make you more than I cost you? Because that's really what's running through an employer's head is can I ROI this payroll item? That's what they're asking. It's like if I hire a technician, I'm in the heat and air business.
He's got to do more heat and air work than I pay him to make a profit on having hired him. Otherwise, I don't get to keep him because I can't afford him.
Here's another question. Describe how this team that you lead, describe

how they work together. What's that? How would you describe if you're going to pick a one word

to describe this current team? Again, an insightful question that yields an answer for you,

and it actually gives you some sense of what it's actually like there. And what kind of team member, what would I need to be to be a great team member? That's right.

To add value to this team.

To add value to this team.

That's right.

Yeah.

To add value to this team.

To add value to this team.

To add value to this team.

To add value to this team.

To add value to this team.

To add value to this team.

To add value to this team.

To add value to this team.

To add value to this team.

To add value to this team.

To add value to this team.

To add value to this team.

To add value to this team.

To add value to this team.

To add value to this team.

To add value to this team.

To add value to this team.

To add value to this team.

To add value to this team.

To add value to this team.

To add value to this team.

To add value to this team.

To add value to this team.

To add value to this team.

To add value to this team.

To add value to this team.

To add value to this team.

To add value to this team.

To add value to this team.

To add value to this team.

To add value to this team.

To add value to this team.

To add value to this team.

To add value to this team.

To add value to this team.

To add value to this team.

To add value to this team.

To add value to this team.

To add value to this team.

To add value to this team.

To add value to this team.

To add value to this team.

To add value to this team.

To add value to this team.

To add value to this team and to add what kind of synergy can I add or lift can I add? And so. By the way, if you get a nothing answer or a crap answer, so if it sounds like a politician on a Sunday morning show, that's the nothing answer.
A lot of words, no substance. Or you get a really kind of crappy answer.
That's a warning sign. That maybe I don't want to be a part of this team.
If I can't sit with a leader and a leader tell me, this is the kind of person who wins here. You do this, you win.
We reward this here. And they, by the way, will show you.
Now, Ramsey example, you ask that question at Ramsey, and a leader is going to show you somebody in our company, they'll point this way, this way, and this way, and say, now they started out in this position, and now they're here. I always think of that old story of the guy walking along the dirt path, and he comes along, and the guy says, what were the people like in that town you just left over there? And he said, well, what were they like in the last town? He goes, they were wonderful.
He goes, you'll find them. It'll be wonderful.
He runs in another guy, and he says, what were the people like over there? And he goes, what'd you find in the last town he goes oh they were horrible they were just awful he goes well you're gonna find that over there too and so so if somebody sits down all they tell me is all the horrible things about all the places they've worked yeah and the only common denominator is them there you go i'm done that's right done so you come in and victim mentality your interview you screwed up your interview um so because it's possible that you are actually a victim of a toxic thing but not repeatedly that's highly unlikely unless you are like attracting this well that's a very good point i mean you don't know how to sniff it out you keep allowing yourself to go to these situations. Well, I mean, yeah, or you're just a drama queen.
You're part of the toxicity. Yeah, you're the...
You bring it with you. The core of the issue.
There we go. Hey, guys, for all of you that are listening to the show right this second on YouTube or on a podcast, at the top of the hour here, the show is going to end and the other 40 minutes of the show is available for free on the new Ramsey network app.
As a matter of fact, all three segments of the, all the entire show is available. The first part and the last part on the Ramsey network app, uh, video and audio.
And so you can watch the show, listen to the show, however you want to download the show. You can search the show on the Ramsey Network app by subject and find calls that we have taken on each subject.
You can send emails that we will answer on the air from the Ramsey Network app. It is 100% free.
We do not going, we do not have plans to take it to a subscription. We simply need to offload part of the programming and we're built out like our audio book stuff is over there.
Everything else is, we're starting to build a whole network app literally over there. And the last 40 minutes of the podcast, the last 40 minutes of the YouTube show, is now available only on the Ramsey Network app.
So jump on the App Store, get the Ramsey Network app, download it, open your account. It's completely free.
You can watch the whole show there or you can just jump over there and pick up the last 30 or last 40, whatever you want to do. Google Play as well.
It works on all of that. If you're listening on radio, nothing changes.
Everything's exactly where it's always been. We're not moving a dime on radio.
So if you're in a city where they carry a radio runs by the hour, if you're in a city where they carry all three hours, you're still going to get all three hours. We're not changing a thing on that, but this is podcast and YouTube.
The last 40 minutes is free and available only on the Ramsey Network app in the App Store

or in Google Play.

And jump over there and get that done.

And you can click on the show notes if you want to get the free app, too.

That'll be another way you can get it and get it done.

I can promise you this.

The value is going to be worth the cost.