Stop Letting Your Financial Past Ruin Your Financial Future

Speaker 1 From Ramsey Network, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell, joined by best-selling author Dr.

Speaker 1 John Deloney, and we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Don't be shy.
Give us a buzz.

Speaker 1 And if you're kind and you've got a great question, Christian, we'll let you through and we'll try to give you the best advice we can.

Speaker 2 Or if you're not kind, that's fine.

Speaker 1 Well, I think if you're a jerk, I don't think that's going to help your chances.

Speaker 2 It might.

Speaker 1 Does that work for you?

Speaker 2 No, it doesn't, but it makes good radio, I guess.

Speaker 1 Just be kind is a good life. It's a good life principle to live by.
And would you know it? John in Fort Worth, Texas is kicking us off.

Speaker 2 This guy's from Fort Worth. He's from the 817.
He's from the right side of DFW. He's going to be kind.
What's up, John?

Speaker 1 Salt of the earth. What's going on?

Speaker 3 I try to be kind. How are you guys doing?

Speaker 2 Excellent. I understand that when an Oklahoman comes into town, that makes it really tough, but you're trying.
I appreciate you.

Speaker 3 It's a whole different story then.

Speaker 2 What's up?

Speaker 4 Okay. I'm 57 years old.

Speaker 3 I've got $51,000 in

Speaker 4 debt.

Speaker 3 I've been served on three of the accounts

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 3 just don't know where to go. I'm considering

Speaker 3 chapter 7,

Speaker 3 but I don't know if I have any better options or not.

Speaker 1 Well, a better option is not filing bankruptcy, for sure. That's going to implode your financial life.

Speaker 1 What kind of debt is the 51?

Speaker 3 I've got four credit cards and then one unsecured loan.

Speaker 1 What happened?

Speaker 3 Oh, gosh, back in the COVID years, I lost my job. I had a hard time finding one after that.

Speaker 3 And that occurred a lot of it.

Speaker 2 John, what do you do?

Speaker 2 Because

Speaker 2 I've lived in Texas most of my life, and most of my friend community still lives there.

Speaker 2 My understanding, it's been a hiring bonanza the last 36, 48 months.

Speaker 2 What do you do for a living that you struggle to find work?

Speaker 3 I'm in purchasing and customer service.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 What are you making right now?

Speaker 3 Well, right now I'm unemployed again. I got laid laid off about three months ago.
Okay.

Speaker 3 My division that I was working for moved to Atlanta.

Speaker 2 And did they go without you or did they want you to move and you didn't want to make that job? Well, I mean,

Speaker 3 it wasn't even an option. I wasn't going to move to Atlanta.

Speaker 3 But

Speaker 3 and I mean, I've put in I've been on Indeed and LinkedIn. I've put in various applications and just got not getting any feedback other than thanks but no thanks.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 what are you doing in the meantime?

Speaker 3 Right now I'm doing nothing.

Speaker 1 Have you been in contact with the

Speaker 1 companies? I'm guessing not the credit card companies anymore because that's long gone. Now it's with the collectors?

Speaker 3 I haven't contacted them at all, no.

Speaker 1 Okay, have they been contacting you? Because they've been serving you.

Speaker 3 The one opened my credit cards, they've all been closed. They haven't particularly contacted since then.
Other than I've been served on three of them.

Speaker 1 And is it the credit card company suing you personally or is it collections coming after you?

Speaker 3 This would be the credit card companies, I guess.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 I would contact them and let them know what's going on. I want you to be proactive about this.

Speaker 1 I know it's kind of easier to be just ostrich head in the sand and be in la-la land, but I would let them know, hey, listen, I got laid off three months ago. I want to pay you back.

Speaker 1 When I'm working, can we set up a payment plan? Can we negotiate this instead of filing bankruptcy?

Speaker 1 Okay. Because you file bankruptcy, they get nothing.
But if you work your butt off, you can clean this up, avoid bankruptcy, and give them something and clean up this debt.

Speaker 2 And that's what I want to lean on, man, only because I love you. And

Speaker 2 I'm just trying to think of myself in your situation. What have you done for the last three years or four years?

Speaker 3 Well, I mean, I was working at that time.

Speaker 2 Let me ask you this. At what point will you say, okay, I've done purchasing for a long time.
I'm trying these avenues. It keeps being thanks, but no thanks.

Speaker 2 I got to go to Walmart and get a job.

Speaker 2 I got to go get three jobs because I've got literally zero dollars and I'm getting sued by multiple people for money that I've already spent that they loaned me.

Speaker 2 Like there's a sense of this is all happening to me and I'm trying to reestablish your sense of agency. You've got a lot more control in this deal and it's not going to look like you did.

Speaker 2 What were you making before as a purchasing guy?

Speaker 3 No, my last one was about $55,000.

Speaker 2 You could go find two full-time jobs that you work in a single day to make more than $55,000.

Speaker 2 But just

Speaker 2 sitting there for three months. I mean, you can go move boxes at Walmart and make some good money.

Speaker 2 If you make that choice, you have to swallow your pride and you have to go get to work. But I mean, you're literally not doing anything.
You have no income coming in, do you?

Speaker 2 Just the unemployment.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, I want more for you than that.

Speaker 1 Are you living alone?

Speaker 3 No, I'm married.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 And what's your wife do?

Speaker 3 She's a retired teacher.

Speaker 1 Does she have income from that?

Speaker 2 Just TRS?

Speaker 3 She does, and she's also subbing us as well.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 Because if she can work more and you work twice as hard as she does, we can climb out of this thing and actually retire with some dignity.

Speaker 1 But I feel like right now you've lost your fight because you got knocked knocked down a few times.

Speaker 3 Right.

Speaker 1 Which is understandable, but man, you still got a lot of life ahead of you. And I don't want you to spend it cleaning up after bankruptcy because, guess what?

Speaker 1 They don't want to drag you through court. They don't want to pay all this money either.

Speaker 1 And so I would be in contact with them saying, listen, we're going to work our butts off to get you guys some money and get rid of this debt. Will you settle for XYZ?

Speaker 1 Chances are if the debt's old, they're going to settle for cents on the dollar.

Speaker 1 So you say, hey, listen, I got 10 grand. Can we call this debt good? Paid in full.
Don't give them access to your checking account. and we move on with our life.

Speaker 1 Because bankruptcy is not going to solve all your problems. You're going to be right back to where you were because zero habits changed.

Speaker 2 And John and George, I missed the number.

Speaker 2 How much is in collections here?

Speaker 1 51,000.

Speaker 2 Is that right?

Speaker 3 51,000. That's correct.

Speaker 1 And are you continually going into debt right now?

Speaker 4 No.

Speaker 1 Okay. So are you paying all your bills? Do you have any other debt that's not in collections?

Speaker 3 I have like a second mortgage that I did, which is up to date, and a car payment.

Speaker 1 What's left on those total?

Speaker 3 About $10,000 on the mortgage, and I think about $3,000 on the car.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 Have you talked to your wife about this?

Speaker 3 A little bit, not a lot.

Speaker 1 Is she concerned? Is she just like, you do you, John?

Speaker 2 What's her attitude?

Speaker 2 She's pretty concerned.

Speaker 1 I think she lost her husband.

Speaker 2 Right. This isn't the Fort Worth Texas guy she married

Speaker 2 can i ask you where where are you

Speaker 3 i'm pretty low yeah

Speaker 2 tell me about it

Speaker 3 well i mean i just i just feel defeated you know like the the rug's been pulled out and there's there's no you know safety net or whatever you know yeah

Speaker 2 will you get up today and go have work by saturday morning

Speaker 3 I would love to.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 I guarantee you there are places hiring and they are not going to be traditionally sexy places.

Speaker 2 And you're not going to be able to tell your friends and community that you're a purchasing guy.

Speaker 2 You're going to have to tell them, hey, I'm an assistant manager over at Culver's or I'm throwing boxes from 5 p.m. to 11 p.m.

Speaker 2 And they may raise their eyebrow at you and they may smile real big and say,

Speaker 2 that's what a husband does when the rug gets pulled out from under him. He gets knocked down and he gets back up and he goes and knocks on a door.
And it's not your forever jobs.

Speaker 2 These are your right now jobs. And you're going to get your swagger back and your dignity back.
And then when you go into one of these interviews, someone's going to say, you're my guy.

Speaker 2 Let's go knock on the door and get a job by tomorrow. You can do it.
We believe in you.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr.
John Deloney. Open phones at 888-825-5225.
You call up.

Speaker 1 We'll try to help you take the right next step for your life, your money, and your relationships. Well, John, get this.
You know this stat. Nearly half of the U.S.

Speaker 1 population reports their lives are affected by anxiety, stress, or burnout. Anxiety is everywhere.
And you know, anxiety is not the actual problem.

Speaker 2 Occasionally it is, but almost always it's not.

Speaker 1 Something below that.

Speaker 2 Right, right, right. We're unsafe.
We don't have the people in our lives who are unhealthy. There's just so much going on.

Speaker 2 We've created a chaotic world and we get mad at our bodies for responding chaotically, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah. And it's one of the reasons you wrote your best-selling book, Building a Non-Axious Life.
And right now, during this campaign we've got, it's $12, which is incredible. You walk through this.

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Speaker 1 I feel like with inflation, it should be more. But, you know, Dave does what Dave does.
So you can get that right now for $12 on the Ramsey Solutions store.

Speaker 1 You can get questions for humans, which will improve your relationships with 55 conversation starters that will leave you laughing, spark meaningful conversations, and so much more.

Speaker 1 And John's other best-selling book, Own Your Past, Change Your Future, also $12. So get these bestsellers and so much more on sale right now.

Speaker 1 But it ends August 31st, which, if you're doing the math, is like right now. There's just hours left.
So go check it out: ramseysolutions.com slash sale.

Speaker 1 All right, let's get to Rachel and Myrtle Beach, who awaits. What's going on, Rachel?

Speaker 4 Hi, thanks for making my call. Sure.

Speaker 4 My husband, I, well, I guess it came through my side, but I recently received it. We recently received an inheritance

Speaker 4 of about $7 million.

Speaker 2 Wow.

Speaker 2 Before that.

Speaker 2 $7 million?

Speaker 1 Have you gotten used to just saying that sentence?

Speaker 1 No. Okay.
You said it so casually. Yeah, we got an inheritance of $7 million.

Speaker 2 Who passed away?

Speaker 2 My father. I'm so sorry.
What was his name?

Speaker 4 His name was Dan.

Speaker 2 Man.

Speaker 1 What a legacy.

Speaker 2 Yeah, no kidding.

Speaker 2 That's amazing. Yeah.
Yep.

Speaker 1 So how long ago did you receive this inheritance?

Speaker 4 It's been about

Speaker 4 six months.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 So where is $7 million sitting? Is it just sitting in an escrow account somewhere?

Speaker 4 So we have it with a financial advisor,

Speaker 4 and it's getting slowly invested into different things.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 How can we help today?

Speaker 4 So the problem, well, you'd think it wouldn't be the money, and I know this isn't a typical, you know, problem for people,

Speaker 4 usually the opposite. But so before we received that inheritance,

Speaker 4 my husband and I worked really hard to save a million dollars ourselves.

Speaker 4 I've been a stay-at-home mom, and my husband just worked really hard. We paid off all our debts, our house, everything without ever thinking we would ever.
acquire any inheritance.

Speaker 4 You know, we had no idea that this even existed. But anyway, so

Speaker 4 whenever I found out I was going to get the inheritance, I initially thought it was going to be maybe $3 million. And I came home and told my husband.

Speaker 4 And I was just crying because I was like, this is going to make

Speaker 4 him feel so much better because he's always so worried about money. And he's worried about if we're going to be okay in the future and just about retirement.
He's like, so worried about it.

Speaker 4 I was like so happy that this is going to help him, make him feel peace. But when we got it, it's actually done the opposite.

Speaker 4 now he like

Speaker 4 is super scared about losing it doesn't want to spend any of it um we're actually building a house right now we were building it before we received or had any idea we were getting the inheritance and um

Speaker 4 but he just like i i've kind of wanted to do some extra things now that i that we got the money and um

Speaker 2 he's kind of he's like pretty scared you're gonna blow through the money and have nothing in retirement

Speaker 1 what did you say is he scared you guys are gonna blow blow through the money? Like you're going to be frivolous with it?

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 4 Even though we've never been like that and we just aren't like I drive a super old minivan still like he drives mobile.

Speaker 1 Well he's stuck in his scarcity mindset. It's just on liberality.

Speaker 2 Right. This anxiousness has never been about the money.

Speaker 2 There's something

Speaker 2 I don't.

Speaker 2 Go ahead.

Speaker 4 Go ahead, sir.

Speaker 4 I was just going to say, I don't, it's really affected our marriage. I mean, money has always been a big issue in our marriage.

Speaker 4 Just the fact that he wants to save, save, save. And I'm all about it.
Like, I've supported him. I've done my best to be frugal with our kid.
You know, he does,

Speaker 4 it's not like he's ever made a ton of money, but we've just worked really hard. And

Speaker 4 I don't know how I feel like he puts his value in his money. And, but I also feel very...

Speaker 4 controlled by it. Like I feel like he doesn't almost like he doesn't love me because he not that he doesn't love me but kind of that he doesn't love me.
He loves his money more,

Speaker 4 more than he would like me to just enjoy things sometimes.

Speaker 4 Like we're building a house and before we had this money, we were going to do the basic, you know, like it was going to, it's a lot of money, but it was going to cost us $500,000.

Speaker 4 We were going to pay for it in cash. And we were just going to do the basic things like laminate floors and, you know, whatever.

Speaker 4 But since I got the money, I was like, well, I want to spend some things that I want.

Speaker 4 Like I want to get, you know, quartz countertops instead and like tile in the bathrooms instead of laminate, laminate, you know, things like that.

Speaker 4 So I kind of made myself a budget of like $50,000 or $60,000, just extra things that I would like, that I would enjoy in my home. And he takes that like I'm like personally hurting him.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 so he like doesn't want anything to do with the house. He doesn't like,

Speaker 4 he doesn't want to be a part of it anymore because it's like I'm hurting him.

Speaker 2 I don't know how to make sense of that. It totally does, but I need you to say, say, I need you to internalize what I'm about to say.
This has nothing to do with the money.

Speaker 4 Okay.

Speaker 2 This has... I don't know.
I don't know. I know.

Speaker 2 For whatever reason, it could be that he grew up and money was scarce growing up. It could be that he saw people make fun of his old man for not making enough fun.
Who knows where

Speaker 2 these little nervous system GPS pins got put in place.

Speaker 2 But at some place, his nervous system says, it's all coming down at any second and it's going gonna be your fault

Speaker 2 yeah and so this doesn't have anything to do with the money by the way you coming in the door with seven million dollars probably poured gasoline on that fire because you solved the the biggest crisis of his life which is do I have any worth

Speaker 2 and you and you said look we're free and he goes oh god now I feel even smaller

Speaker 2 And often the only way to feel bigger is to puff your chest out and to take your ball and go home and not actually sit down and solve some of of the problems. So this isn't about money.

Speaker 2 You are well within your rights.

Speaker 2 I mean, hear us, me and George say,

Speaker 2 you're not crazy to spend $60,000. I think you're crazy to only spend $60,000.
You have a check for $7 million.

Speaker 1 That's like John getting a taco. Do you understand the scale here?

Speaker 2 I mean, imagine your dad how big his smile would be. If he got to see you put in a pool and like whatever else you wanted to do, right? So here's the bigger conversation.

Speaker 2 The marriage that you had is over with a period at the end. Yeah.

Speaker 2 What you and your husband have to decide to do is are we going to build something new? Because our life, every bit of our life is different now.

Speaker 2 We are multi, multi-millionaires.

Speaker 2 And now the game has changed and you have to own that new reality. And then you have, as a part of building something new, you have to ask hard questions like, what do you need? And what do you want?

Speaker 2 And what's going to bring peace to you? And then you get to say the same things also.

Speaker 2 And just like y'all go through the fixed years and build this new house, y'all got to do this with your marriage because it's all different now.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 1 He spent his whole life building a sandcastle and you just wiped that all away with one big wave and now there's a mansion there that he didn't build. And I think that scares the crap out of him.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So I think John's right. And I think you also need to sit.
He needs to sit down with a therapist.

Speaker 1 You guys both need to sit down with a financial advisor and actually crunch some reality numbers and go, listen, dude, if you would put this in a savings account, you're going to make $350,000 a year by doing nothing.

Speaker 1 And so this idea that you're just going to lose it all is hogwash. You're not going to put this all in single stocks at the lottery.

Speaker 1 You're going to invest this wisely like you guys already have been doing.

Speaker 2 But you also, like,

Speaker 2 also, there's a math problem here, but his problem is not math.

Speaker 4 That's what he thinks it is.

Speaker 2 I know, but it's not because that's not reality. He can put it in a high-end savings account.

Speaker 1 You can prove it to him by showing him the map. He's going to go, yeah, but it doesn't matter.

Speaker 2 And it wasn't about the map. Yeah, it doesn't matter.
What he needs to know is, I see you and I love you and I want to build a new thing with you. Will you come with me? And hopefully, he says, Yes.

Speaker 2 And y'all got to go, like George said, you got to go sit with a professional and y'all got to work through this. Congratulations, your dad left an amazing legacy.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camill.
My co-host today is Dr. John Deloney.
Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Speaker 1 Our question of the day is brought to you by YReFi. If you're in default with private student loans, contact YReFi.
Obviously, we don't encourage letting your loans get into default.

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Wi-Fi was created for people in your situation. So go to yrefi.com/slash Ramsey.

Speaker 1 That's yrefy.com/slash Ramsey. May not be available in all states.

Speaker 2 All right, today's question comes from Scott in Michigan. Scott writes, I have been in the auto industry for almost six years.

Speaker 2 I started as a mechanic at a large dealership, moved up to service advisor, and recently was promoted to sales consultant. I would bring in about $150,000 a year.

Speaker 2 After reading George Camill's Breaking Free from Broke and the chapter about car loans, I felt guilty for being a part of this industry. Way to go, George.

Speaker 1 Sorry.

Speaker 2 You guilt peddler. I've always thought of myself as an honest salesperson, and I don't just sell people a car.

Speaker 2 I try to educate my customers into making the right decision, but yet I feel very convicted after reading this chapter. Thanks again, George.

Speaker 2 I went to college for business management, but dropped out so that I wouldn't accumulate any more debt, and I've been gazelle-intense so that me and my wife and kids, or my wife and kids, think I've gone crazy.

Speaker 2 I fear that if I pursue another career, I would not be able to earn what I currently make because the auto industry is the one I know.

Speaker 2 Is it hypocritical to continue to work in an industry that keeps people in debt while working my butt off to get myself out of debt? Hey, Dave, can I come work for you?

Speaker 1 Honestly, we are hiring Scott. So we have a lot of sales roles open at ramseysolutions.com slash careers.
But that's for another day. To your question, truthfully, here's my take.

Speaker 1 John may have a completely different take. I feel like we need Scott in the car industry.
We need people with integrity who are leading people to the right decision who aren't scumburgers.

Speaker 1 And it's easy to generalize an entire industry as this is a gross industry. But I think what Scott's doing here is noble.
It's moral. There's no issues with it.

Speaker 1 If you are in the lending department and it eats away at your soul, you need to get out of there. But as the salesperson, it's not your job to say, hey, here's the lending part.

Speaker 1 Here's the financing part. They're going to go to another guy to deal with the financing.
You're there to say, hey, what is your budget? Here's a car that is in your budget.

Speaker 1 And then if they have questions along the way, you can steer them to go, hey, this one might be better for you guys.

Speaker 1 I want you guys to walk away from here debt-free. There's nothing wrong with that as a salesperson.

Speaker 1 And yeah, you might not get as many commissions as going, you should get the car that's way too expensive because it has the sweet feature.

Speaker 1 I think we need people with integrity steering people toward that.

Speaker 2 So, you think

Speaker 2 Scott can sit down with people and say, Okay, until it eats away at his soul. What kind of money is to pay? I think a Corolla is a great option for you.

Speaker 2 Instead of saying, ooh, they just walked in the door, let's get them in a land cruiser, even though we know they can afford the payment, right? Um, so they may be the voice of reason. And

Speaker 2 people are adults when they buy cars and they could always.

Speaker 1 It's not on you. So don't feel the personal responsibility of that person's decision to buy a car they can't afford.

Speaker 2 And I want to address the bottom of this.

Speaker 2 And this is a heavy one.

Speaker 2 This idea that for whatever reason, And we live in a wild world now where because of Twitter and because of social media,

Speaker 2 we know how our bosses vote. We know who they vote for.
We know what they think about this issue and that issue. And we know where they stand on this and this.
Not to mention,

Speaker 2 oh, I thought I was selling cars. I didn't realize that y'all only make money on finance, right? We know so much more.

Speaker 2 Millions of people look in the mirror and say, can I be a part of this particular business for X, Y, and Z reasons? Because I've got this set of values.

Speaker 2 And somewhere along the way in this chain of value hierarchies, we don't align.

Speaker 2 The question often comes up, but I won't make this kind of money. A, I think that's a false sense of scarcity.

Speaker 2 If you've been able to work yourself up, like clearly this guy is good at what he does, he's a person-8 character. He works really hard because he's moved from this position to this.

Speaker 2 He continues to get promotion. So let's let what has happened be the map forward.
You'll find a new industry and you'll work really hard. You'll be a person of integrity.
You'll make your way through.

Speaker 2 He's a problem solver. That's right.

Speaker 1 That's the skill set.

Speaker 2 He's clearly a good leader or they wouldn't keep moving him up. That's number one.
Number two, you always have to go back and ask yourself, what's your integrity worth?

Speaker 2 And that's a scary hard question. That's a scary hard question for a guy like me, right?

Speaker 2 Like, what if it in my core guts, I just thought at the end of the day, when I put my head on my pillow, I think you can get rich from airline miles.

Speaker 2 And my boss, Dave, is like, you can't get rich with airline miles. I'd have to ask myself, what's it worth? Right? What's it worth?

Speaker 2 And so I think

Speaker 1 all incongruence every day. Right.

Speaker 2 And I just haven't been able to find a way to sleep at night when

Speaker 2 there's incongruence in your life like that. And so I think all of us have to ask that hard question and then go ask, all right, what must be true, right?

Speaker 2 But your kids will feel that lack of congruency. Your spouse will feel that lack of congruency.
Your body will feel that lack of congruency.

Speaker 2 So you might think you're just plugging along making such and such paycheck, but... Man, it will burn the rest of your life to the ground.
It's tough. It's tough.

Speaker 1 So if you can be a

Speaker 1 change agent here, Scott, and stay in it and make peace with it and not eat away at your soul, do it and keep helping people.

Speaker 1 But if you can't, like John's saying, then you got to make the move out of here.

Speaker 1 And we both believe you have the skill set to move into any other industry and know that the other industry, they probably also sell stuff that someone can finance.

Speaker 2 So, can I tell you,

Speaker 2 there was a pivotal moment in my life from a friend and extraordinary mentor of mine. His name is Dr.
Richard Beck. He's a psychology professor.
He's an experimental psychologist. He's a genius,

Speaker 2 literal.

Speaker 2 One day I was sitting with him, and some things had happened to some students

Speaker 2 and I was really struggling with it, whether the university's response was appropriate. It didn't sit well with me.
So I went and sat with him. And here's what he said.

Speaker 2 He said, John, I get your tension here. I get the angst.
And I think you're right.

Speaker 2 As a mentor, as a friend, I want you to know you're free to go. Like, you're right.
And then he said, just know that if you leave, those students will still be here.

Speaker 2 And if everybody runs out the door, just because, quote unquote, because they can,

Speaker 2 right?

Speaker 2 And that particular interaction shifted. So now I want to find places where maybe I can offer an alternative voice.
Or maybe I can say, well, what, let's think of it this way.

Speaker 2 And where can we find, where can we, like, I love what you said this. Scott, this may be the greatest place for you.

Speaker 2 You may be the one salesperson that continues to say, you know what, I don't think you can afford the Camry, but the Corolla is an amazing car. Let's go check it out.
And that you're the person

Speaker 2 constantly getting poked fun at by your fellow salespeople because your commission checks are smaller because you keep directing people to cars that they can actually afford. You know what?

Speaker 2 The new lot is not for you guys. Let's go over here to the certified new lot because I think this is going to be a better option for you and your family long term.

Speaker 2 What if you were that guy and you slowly, painfully changed the culture?

Speaker 2 in that and people kept coming back to you because they trusted you.

Speaker 1 Well, that word of mouth alone, I'm going to go, hey, you need to go see this guy, Scott. Go see Scott.

Speaker 2 He'll tell you the truth.

Speaker 1 It's so much easier to stand out in a industry filled with scum because you're the one good guy.

Speaker 2 So if there's a place where your boss votes differently, I quit. Okay.
Or what if you stayed? What if you stayed? And what if you said, let's think about it this way.

Speaker 2 What if you became over time a voice of reason, a voice of a new perspective, and you continued to show up and continue to show up? I think that's how the world changes.

Speaker 2 If everybody heads for the exits when it gets hard and scary and uncomfortable, nothing changes. In fact, everything gets more polarized and everything gets harder.

Speaker 2 And so ask yourself that question, Scott, and everybody, listening.

Speaker 2 What if you stayed? What if you stayed and you just began to slowly offer different ways to see the world? I think that's how the world changes.

Speaker 1 Well, and especially in this industry, cars are amoral. Now, if this was a product that is inherently gross, if he's working for a payday or title pawn, I'd say, all right, get out of there.

Speaker 2 That whole place is like Dan the cocaine dealer. Yes.
Probably like it's a car. Suddenly, I can't.
It's a car.

Speaker 1 It has utility. So

Speaker 1 this was the choose your own adventure, Scott. We're not going to tell you to do one thing or the other, but you need to follow your conscience and your values.

Speaker 1 And the fact that you wrote in maybe tells me it might be time for a different career shift. Who knows? There you go.
Or you come here, work for Ramsey. And thanks for reading the book, by the way.

Speaker 1 I didn't know I was that convincing, John. That's amazing.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 And you've convinced me on some things. Really? Yeah.

Speaker 1 To do what?

Speaker 1 Name one.

Speaker 2 Put on Venmo.

Speaker 1 Oh, that's right.

Speaker 2 You convinced me to get Venmo. You've almost convinced me.
I was in Pennsylvania two nights ago, and I reached out to you and said, hey, will you...

Speaker 1 John doesn't know how to do like Instacart.

Speaker 2 Will you send ice cream as a surprise to my family?

Speaker 1 And I said, John, I'm not your personal assistant. I'd be happy to do that for my hourly rate, which you can't afford.

Speaker 2 I can't afford it. He can't afford it.

Speaker 1 I can't afford that. But I would do it as a friend.

Speaker 2 But you did convince me to get Venmo, and I may get

Speaker 2 what? Instacart?

Speaker 1 Baby Stephen. I think I'm going to get Instacart.
Take it one day at a time, John.

Speaker 2 I'm going to get ahead of you. Welcome, 21st Century.
Here I come.

Speaker 1 This is The Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr.
John Deloney. The phone number to call is 888-825-5225.
Selena's up next in Washington, D.C.

Speaker 1 How can we help, Selena?

Speaker 4 Hi, good afternoon. Thank you for having me on your show.

Speaker 2 Sure.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 4 I am, I have no knowledge of financial literacy at all, and I'm in a space where I am really trying to get my life together.

Speaker 4 So I am on baby step two, but I just have a general question about the amount of college debt I have and some concerns with that.

Speaker 4 So I understand that you guys say to start off with the lowest up, the lowest amount that you have first in debt, and then to work your way up. My college loans are $93,000.

Speaker 4 And I know that after working for the government after 10 years, these loans can be forgiven. So I'm kind of confused on if that's something that I should be

Speaker 4 even paying like a lot of attention to, or if I should just say, okay, well, after 10 years, they're going to be forgiven anyway. I just don't know what to do with that.

Speaker 2 So, Selena, number one, I would say that I'm proud of you. It is hard to turn and face the storm.
And that's what you're doing. Amazing.

Speaker 2 Welcome to our gang or our cult, whatever you want to call it, whatever the internet's call us. We're glad that you're here.
It's amazing. Thank you.

Speaker 2 Can I ask you a wild question?

Speaker 4 Sure.

Speaker 2 Who was president 10 years ago?

Speaker 4 Who was president 10 years ago? My brain doesn't work that way. I don't know.

Speaker 2 Exactly.

Speaker 2 So, you know what the federal student loan relief policy was 10 years ago?

Speaker 4 What was it?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2 But I know this. I know I had a lot of extraordinary, brilliant law students

Speaker 2 who did not go into private,

Speaker 2 large firm law because the government said it was going to pay off all their student loans in 10 years.

Speaker 2 And I know that many of them went to do public defender stuff. They went to help the least of these in our local communities

Speaker 2 and that relief never came.

Speaker 2 Because somebody else got into office and then somebody else got into office and somebody else writes a bill and then somebody else sends this to the Supreme Court.

Speaker 2 All I have to say is, If I look around, I don't have a ton of trust that the government's going to do what they say they're going to do in 10 years

Speaker 2 yeah I do have a lot of trust in my ability to get up and say okay as for me and my house here's what we're going to do next

Speaker 2 and that's a sad state of reality but that's just me choosing reality

Speaker 4 yeah yeah no i agree

Speaker 4 It feels nearly impossible for me to even think that $93,000 is something that I can pay off myself.

Speaker 2 Why?

Speaker 1 Who told Selena that?

Speaker 4 It's a lot of money. And then the interest that I see, like two years ago, I was at around $87,000.
And then I look again this year, it's at $93,000.

Speaker 1 And that's because you didn't have a clue about personal finance. And now you're getting a hold of this thing.

Speaker 1 And you're going to pay extra. You're going to do the baby steps.
We're going to get you out of debt in a few years.

Speaker 2 And the worst part of your story is, I hate to tell you this. It makes my heart hurt, but it's kind of awesome that me and my wife paid off $110,000.

Speaker 2 And me and George's friend Jade Warshaw heard her husband paid off like, what, $450,000 of student loans. So here's the deal.
You don't see that you can do it.

Speaker 2 George and I are on the other side of the tunnel. We know you can.

Speaker 1 We can tell you.

Speaker 2 We can show you the math.

Speaker 1 We can show you the path. But you got to believe in Selena.

Speaker 2 Because we do. Are you working right now?

Speaker 4 I am working, and I'm making the most I've ever made, but I just feel like I don't know where my money is going. There we go.

Speaker 1 That's a great problem to have. And guess what? Next year, you're probably going to make more money than you've ever made.
And the year after that, you're going to make more money than you ever made.

Speaker 1 And so what are you making right now?

Speaker 4 I'm making $96,000.

Speaker 2 That's amazing.

Speaker 1 And what's your total debt load? Add up all your consumer debt?

Speaker 4 My total debt load is around $102,000.

Speaker 1 Okay, what's the other $9,000 other than student loans?

Speaker 4 Well, I have two credit cards. One is

Speaker 4 $4,100. The other is $4,800.

Speaker 4 And then I have my phone, which is $800,000. I'm also paying a car that I didn't include in that debt, and that's $375 a month.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 So making $96, let's imagine that you get a little raise and you're making six figures sooner rather than later, and you have about $100,000 in debt.

Speaker 1 How much do you think you could throw at the debt each year? If you got on a budget, you worked extra, you cut your expenses, you live like a broke college person.

Speaker 1 Do you think you could throw $30,000, $35,000 a year at the debt?

Speaker 4 If I eat beans and rice, like you guys say.

Speaker 2 There we go.

Speaker 1 You think

Speaker 1 you could manage to throw $3,000 a month at the debt if you really tried?

Speaker 4 Three grand? I don't think so, right? Because the expenses I gave you were just the debt, like the thing that I have in debt, but I still have bills. I still have rent, and I pay everything by myself.

Speaker 1 I know that, but I'm saying if we got real creative with every single line item on top of working extra, I think you could find it. Whatever the gap is, you can go find it.
You're that resourceful.

Speaker 1 And if you do that, just based on napkin math, you're done with this thing in less than three years.

Speaker 1 And you get your life back. How old are you?

Speaker 4 30.

Speaker 1 So you'll be 33 years old and completely debt-free. Or you could be 40 while politicians still dangle the carrot and you spend all this time waiting and hoping and waiting and hoping.

Speaker 1 And now we still have 100 grand left ahead of us at 40 years old.

Speaker 2 Right. I'm not taking the chances.

Speaker 1 I think the variables are, there's far less with Selena than there are with all the outside factors.

Speaker 2 And so Selena, here's what bonkers looks like.

Speaker 2 Jade Warshall and her husband did not have a bed. They slept on an air mattress for years.

Speaker 2 Me and my wife sold our house and we moved into a dorm, a college residence hall with a toddler

Speaker 2 because we said enough is enough is enough is enough. And I ate in the dorm, I mean

Speaker 2 in the cafeteria at the university

Speaker 2 to save money.

Speaker 2 Here's what I'm saying. When you decide enough is enough,

Speaker 2 when you decide Selena's worth going to war for,

Speaker 2 beans and rice become a delicacy it's not a sacrifice it becomes a small price to pay for freedom

Speaker 2 right you know what I'm saying yeah yeah definitely but it's you have to you have to flip that switch or it will always look like $96,000 $96,000 $96,000 by the way how much is this car you're driving around that you didn't include in your total debt

Speaker 4 so the thing is I am helping my mom to pay this this is her car and I just have have it temporarily.

Speaker 4 So I don't really know how much the entire car is because at some point I'm planning on giving this back to her when she's ready.

Speaker 2 But you're driving it?

Speaker 4 Yes, I'm driving it.

Speaker 2 Why are you paying for your mom's car?

Speaker 4 She was working from home. She got into

Speaker 4 some health issues, and all of her responsibilities were a lot. So we decided that I'd take the car just until she's back on her feet.

Speaker 2 Can she afford a car?

Speaker 2 She's ready.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 2 It doesn't sound like she can.

Speaker 1 But you're paying it.

Speaker 2 I'm paying

Speaker 4 if she's working from home.

Speaker 2 What kind of car is it?

Speaker 4 It's a 2019 Toyota Raff 4. Okay.

Speaker 2 I want you to get what the payoff amount is on that car, and I want you to ask yourself a hard question

Speaker 2 because it's a depreciating asset, so it's worth less money every month over every year. Yet your payment is the same.

Speaker 2 And I want you to ask yourself, what if we just sold this car? And when mom needs to come back online and start working not from home anymore, then she can buy a $3,000.

Speaker 2 She can buy whatever she can afford with cash. And you're going to buy whatever you can afford with cash.
And suddenly, boom, you got $300 back a month back in your budget to go towards student loans.

Speaker 4 You're right. We talked about that too.
Sell it.

Speaker 2 Sell it. Sell it.
And Toyotas have a great resale value, so sell it. Be free from that one.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 Now, George, what kind of tools can we give her to help her out?

Speaker 1 I'm going to gift you my book, Breaking Free from Broke. And there's a specific chapter in there that I think is really going to help.
It's called Margin is Breathing Room.

Speaker 1 In there, I lay out every one of my best ideas for you to find some margin in that budget to get you to $3,000 a month or more. And you're already making 96.
You've got some skills.

Speaker 1 And I think if you put those to work while cutting expenses, you'll get this amazing thing called margin, and you will be in control of Selena's life.

Speaker 1 And you live right down the street from these politicians, Selena. You've seen what they're saying.
But the truth is they don't care about Selena. Only Selena's going to care about Selena.

Speaker 1 And so you've got to do what's right for you and your family. And I want you to have a different life than the generations that came before you.

Speaker 1 And that means we're not going to carry debt into our 40s and 50s and 60s and hope on the government to fix our life. We're just going to fix it.

Speaker 2 Let's also hook her up with a year of

Speaker 2 the greatest budget app, budgeting app in the world. And Selena, it's going to teach you how to budget.
It's going to help keep you accountable to it. Hang on the line and we'll get you hooked up.

Speaker 1 It'll show you all the nooks and crannies you can be saving. When you go, oh my gosh, I never actually looked at all that at one place.
Yes. All my income, all my expenses.

Speaker 2 i can do better i can find thirty six hundred dollars a month right and suddenly it it it just is every or it shines a light on just how bad things are and you got to get your butt now

Speaker 1 i like it that puts this hour of the ramsey show in the books we'll be back before you know it

Speaker 1 from ramsey network it's the ramsey show where we help people build wealth do work that they love and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell, joined by the one and only Dr.

Speaker 1 John Deloney, and we are here for you to help you take the right next step for your life, your money, your relationships, your mental health, and pretty much anything else.

Speaker 1 The number to call is 888-825-5225.

Speaker 1 Darlene kicks us off in Chicago. How can we help, Darlene?

Speaker 4 I'm wondering if I can role-play with you guys so that I can tell my children to get their act together.

Speaker 2 Yes!

Speaker 1 Who gets to be the children?

Speaker 4 Well, my children are three girls, three boys, ages 23 to 40.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 4 yeah, my husband and I today, we've sacrificed 44 years and we've

Speaker 4 put

Speaker 4 our time and energy into fostering, adopting, and we have a 37-year-old son, and mom's about burnout. Mom's tired of doing the budget thing and saying,

Speaker 4 Yeah, I can loan you money on this app, that app, and then the goals that I have for next year for retiring to our

Speaker 4 little escape is not going to happen because I'm trying to pay down bills and have everything free and clear so I can live on our budget.

Speaker 1 So you're still giving grown kids allowances essentially in your sickness.

Speaker 2 Pretty much. Okay, Darlene.

Speaker 4 Their cell phone, their insurance.

Speaker 2 I super want to role play this because I think that'll be fun and instructive, but I have to ask you this question.

Speaker 2 Yes. Let's not talk about them for a second, okay? I want to talk about about you.

Speaker 2 Yes. Every time you give them money,

Speaker 2 every time you pay their cell phone bill, you,

Speaker 2 my new friend Darlene, get something. What are you getting?

Speaker 4 I'm getting anxiety.

Speaker 2 Nope, that's not true. That's not true.
You're getting, that's what your body is doing because of the choices you keep making.

Speaker 2 You're getting something positive for this or you wouldn't keep digging a hole deeper and deeper that you keep falling into. What are you getting from this? Because that's the root here.

Speaker 2 Your kids are not the problem here. All they're doing is what has always worked for them.

Speaker 2 Right. You're doing what has always worked for you in a weird, sideways way.
So, what are you getting from this?

Speaker 4 I guess the satisfaction of trying to push them into adulthood and being

Speaker 4 nope. Nope.

Speaker 2 Because you're not pushing them.

Speaker 2 You're just putting money

Speaker 2 into their slot machine. What are you getting from this? My guess is you're getting

Speaker 2 the feeling of being needed.

Speaker 2 You're getting the feeling of that little tiny

Speaker 2 neurochemical hit that is,

Speaker 2 I just helped them out, that all of us parents love when we get to help out our kids.

Speaker 2 That you're continually, like, as much as you hate it, you also love that your kids have to keep coming back to you because you you don't ever, the thought of them ever going away and being independent completely and quote unquote, not needing their mom.

Speaker 2 I can't go there.

Speaker 2 I hate paying their cell phone bill, but the idea of them waking up and not needing me is really heavy.

Speaker 2 Could that be true?

Speaker 4 That's pretty realistic, but at the same time, I feel like I've given them resources and education over the years, and I feel like I need to just lie to them and say, no, I don't have any more money.

Speaker 2 You don't need to lie to them because then you become a person that you don't respect. Can I ask one more thing?

Speaker 4 Yes.

Speaker 2 How much guilt do you have that they're 36 and they're still asking mom for money?

Speaker 4 A lot. Okay.

Speaker 2 And so a way to punt that guilt a little bit further down the field is just to give them another $130 for their cell phone and the next month, punt it a little bit further.

Speaker 2 And so it's time for you to stare you down in the mirror, Darlene, because you're the epicenter here. Your kids are just doing what works.

Speaker 2 And we can blame them all day long, but they just, mom pays our cell phone bill.

Speaker 1 Let's role play the part where you stop giving them money. What are they going to do?

Speaker 2 Throw a fit?

Speaker 2 Yeah, use their own budget. That's not going to feel good.

Speaker 2 No, but they're going to be angry at you, right?

Speaker 1 It's going to hurt the relationship.

Speaker 4 Well, you know, the last time I said, nope, I don't have money in there. I'm overdrawn.
I don't have money to loan to you so that you can go.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but that's not true, Darlene. The Integris way, the stand-tall way to do this is to send an email to all of your kids and to say effective September 1 or October 1,

Speaker 2 mom is no longer paying cell phone bills, insurance, etc.

Speaker 4 Yes.

Speaker 2 I am deleting all of these apps from my phone. You'll have 30 days or 45 days to get your own insurance, to get your own cell phone bill.

Speaker 2 And then you have to be prepared for the wan, when, when, when, when, it's not fair. It's your fault.
fault. Blah, blah, blah.
And just know it's coming. Okay, cool.

Speaker 2 But that's the only way to do it. And by the way,

Speaker 2 I don't know, cruel is the right word. It just would be not cool if you just said, hey, tomorrow I'm not doing, like, that's kind of leaving people

Speaker 2 out into the wind because you brought them along and suddenly you just are like, I'm taking your coats and I'm going inside even though it's freezing outside.

Speaker 2 So, but giving them a date and saying, effective this date, I'm deleting all these apps from my phone. Y'all are adults.
Y'all are on your own.

Speaker 2 Not that I don't have any money, because that's not true. The truth is, I love y'all enough to let you go.

Speaker 4 I love y'all enough to let you go.

Speaker 2 That's it.

Speaker 4 More not a bank, no more Cash App, no more Apple Pay, no more as that.

Speaker 2 You have to delete those from your phone,

Speaker 2 especially temporarily, because you don't have the self-control to listen to your kids cry and whine and not go in and rescue them. And that doesn't make you a bad person.
That just means

Speaker 2 now you're enabling instead of helping.

Speaker 1 Do any of them live at home with you?

Speaker 2 No, thank God.

Speaker 4 We had a house fire in 22, and we helped the youngest to

Speaker 4 her own house paid off, and she's still burying herself because she won't pull herself up by her.

Speaker 1 And I think the hardest part for you is to go, that's her choice she's making, and I can't continue to rescue her.

Speaker 2 And Darlene, you've been clipping her bootstraps every time she reaches down to pull them up.

Speaker 4 Pretty much. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And so I think the actual challenge over the next six months is not the whining adult children. It's going to be you feeling like, my kids don't need me anymore, which means I don't believe

Speaker 2 I don't have any value anymore, which is not true. It's a lie.
But you're going to have to deal with those feelings.

Speaker 2 And you're going to have to look at that knuckle-headed husband of yours and say, hey, you want to build an amazing new marriage?

Speaker 2 How do we do that? That's the new adventure.

Speaker 1 And it might expose the fact that this relationship was largely transactional, and we have to to create a different relationship that's not based on what mom gives to the kids.

Speaker 2 That's hard

Speaker 1 to connect in a different way.

Speaker 4 Well, I feel like I just need to tell them we're entering our new season, and you guys are on your own.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I'm deleting all of the apps. I will not pay for the following effective this date.
Be very clear. Clear as kind.
We say that around here all the time.

Speaker 4 Clear as kind.

Speaker 2 Yes. Now, now let's role play.

Speaker 2 Hey, mom.

Speaker 2 It's October 1st and our insurance is going to be due. You want to go ahead and just cash out me that money?

Speaker 4 Nope. Sorry.
I already told the insurance company that here's your information. Call you.

Speaker 2 And I've deleted the apps. I don't even have a way to do it.

Speaker 4 No more apps. They're gone.

Speaker 2 And I love you enough to let you figure this one out.

Speaker 2 For real.

Speaker 2 Hey, Darlene, you're making a huge change and it's very, very hard. And we're proud of you.
But now you got to go do it.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell and joined by Dr.
John Deloney. Open phones at 888-825-5225.
Let's go out to Hannah in Atlanta, Georgia. What's going on, Hannah?

Speaker 4 Thank you so much for answering my call. Sure.
So the question that I have today is, my husband and I have been married for about 12 and a half years.

Speaker 4 We have one eight-year-old child and back in 2018 I became disabled and I'm not able to work very much. My income is roughly $1,000 a month for both myself and I receive a little for my child.

Speaker 4 It's a lot on my husband. He is a diesel mechanic.
He was in the military for four years and got out. It was not much money at all.

Speaker 4 He got out. We quit traveling with the military and came back home to Georgia.
And he went to college to be a diesel mechanic.

Speaker 4 I was in college to be a surgical technician and of course was unable to fulfill those dreams. I have been back to college trying to finish, but it's proven to be very difficult.

Speaker 4 I've been going back to college on and off for the last eight years, but just dealing with you know, the stress of being disabled is tough. So we have no savings.
We live in a single-wide trailer.

Speaker 4 I drive a vehicle that I bought about five years ago for $5,000. I do not have a car payment.
We don't live beyond our means. We try to,

Speaker 4 financially speaking, we try to live

Speaker 4 smart, for lack of better words.

Speaker 4 But we have no savings. We've been married for 12 years and lately our trailer needs a of attention,

Speaker 4 probably close to about maybe $30,000 or $40,000 worth of work to it, which we can't afford.

Speaker 4 We'd have to take out a loan in order to, you know, but it's just, and you know, we go back and forth about, well, do we take out more loan, do we take out another loan to try to fix things up or, or could we possibly buy a house within the next five or ten years?

Speaker 4 It doesn't look possible, but, you know, we just, I feel like financially we're not in a very good position.

Speaker 4 He doesn't want to go back to college because, of course, that puts the stress of, I don't think it, I mean, it could be possible for us to live on $12,000 a year. It would be really hard.

Speaker 4 You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 What's he making money?

Speaker 4 Roughly $50,000 a year.

Speaker 1 Okay. And do you guys have any debt?

Speaker 4 Just what we owe, what we're left owing on the trailer. And he owns a vehicle that we have a payment on.
He pays about $650 a month for his vehicle.

Speaker 2 Whoa, good God. That's a huge chunk chunk of money right there.

Speaker 1 What's left on that loan for the vehicle?

Speaker 4 Roughly

Speaker 4 about $30 to $35 maybe. It's a 2019 F-150.

Speaker 1 Does he need that for work? Can he get a 2010 F-150 that does the same thing?

Speaker 4 It's possible that he can do away with the truck, but his argument is, you know,

Speaker 4 it would save us $7,800 a year.

Speaker 4 And I get that's a lot of money, but $7,800 a year, that's kind of like you know his argument is I work I earn the money for the household I would like to have a nice vehicle to drive because we don't have much I mean honestly we yeah but you're also making no progress if I was able to just give you a ten thousand dollar raise it would change your life right that's ten thousand bucks in savings you could have by the end of the year by getting rid of this truck right

Speaker 1 so we've got to make some changes if you guys want a different life otherwise we're going to stay in this cycle

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 what I'm going to to say is going to sound not compassionate, and I don't mean that in any way.

Speaker 2 When we did the millionaire study here at Ramsey Solutions, we found the number three on the millionaire list was teachers.

Speaker 2 Teachers.

Speaker 2 That's 50 to 60,000 bucks a year. And at the time, it was less than that, but inflation was less, okay?

Speaker 4 Right.

Speaker 2 And there's some discussion about, well, teachers are really good at planning because that's what they do for a living. And so they're good at planning their expenses.

Speaker 2 I have a different theory because my wife was a teacher and my wife bought a Corolla. And you know why? Because she knew I was only going to make $50,000 a year forever.

Speaker 2 And she made peace with a certain kind of life.

Speaker 2 And what your husband wants is both and. He wants to...

Speaker 2 Be a diesel mechanic, which is an incredible, noble, necessary job.

Speaker 2 But for whatever reason, he's a diesel mechanic that makes

Speaker 2 50,000 bucks a year. That's the job he has accepted and the path he's accepted.

Speaker 2 With that mathematical reality,

Speaker 2 you don't also get to say,

Speaker 2 while my family is living in a depreciating asset home, a trailer that is falling apart around you, I deserve this truck. I get to have this.

Speaker 2 Because we made some choices about math with our job. We made some choices about our career path, all good.

Speaker 2 But you don't then get to say, math doesn't count, my family's future doesn't count because I get what I want.

Speaker 2 Do you see what I'm saying? Right. That does make sense.

Speaker 2 So if he chose to be a diesel mechanic and he chose to work his way up and become a manager of other diesel mechanics and to one day own his own diesel mechanic shop,

Speaker 2 great.

Speaker 2 With that will come a bunch more stress, and with that should come

Speaker 2 a bunch more money.

Speaker 2 And with that new money, go buy yourself a new F-150.

Speaker 2 You can't afford that now. And all of these things are a series of choices.
Your situation, your health, was probably not a choice. What happened to you where you can't work?

Speaker 4 Multiple sclerosis. I was in a wheelchair back in 2018.

Speaker 2 Are you out of a wheelchair now?

Speaker 4 I am out of a wheelchair.

Speaker 2 Congratulations, sister. You've been working hard, haven't you?

Speaker 4 Well,

Speaker 4 life is very hard.

Speaker 2 It is.

Speaker 4 And I am a substitute teacher in my hometown, and it is $100 a day, but there's 170

Speaker 4 school days. So, I mean, if, which, I mean,

Speaker 4 I cannot physically work

Speaker 4 all 170. I'm actually only able to work about roughly five on a good days out of the month.
That's not a lot of money. So, I mean, and I'm super, like, don't get me wrong.

Speaker 4 I'm so thankful for our house.

Speaker 2 I don't hear, I don't hear one ounce of a lack of gratitude. I hear somebody who's very, very tired.

Speaker 4 Yes.

Speaker 2 Most husbands.

Speaker 2 I don't say most husbands. That's not fair.
I don't want to overgender it.

Speaker 2 Most people need to hear that from you.

Speaker 2 Hey, honey, I can't sleep at night.

Speaker 2 We have to do something different because I'm just looking and we keep doing the same thing over and we keep getting re-frustrated that the same thing is resulting in the same thing.

Speaker 4 Right.

Speaker 4 So, okay, the truck. If he bought a cheap little dinger car, $2,000, $3,000, we do not have a payment that takes care of, I mean, we could have $8,000 extra dollars a year.

Speaker 4 But ideally, what's the goal? Like, you know,

Speaker 4 I would like to have a savings. And we've been married for 12 years.
And at this point, I'm like, what are we doing with our lives? So,

Speaker 4 what type of advice could he?

Speaker 1 If he sells the truck, that's one part. If he can increase his income, whether that's with his core full-time work or extra work, that's more income.

Speaker 1 If you can increase your income a little bit by doing something different, that's more income.

Speaker 1 And I would stop sinking money in this trailer and I would go rent somewhere while you continue to save up the emergency fund and then save up to get a house one day.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 And guess what? Five, ten years of savings, you'll be able to have that house.

Speaker 1 Or we could be right where we are fixing up an old trailer that's going down in value while we drive our nice truck that's going down in value while we make no progress. That's the current status.

Speaker 1 And I think you're worth more than that.

Speaker 2 And I think all of this happens with a conversation where you have a neighbor that will come wash your kid for a few hours in the morning, and you and your husband go have breakfast somewhere and y'all say, okay, we've been together for 12 years.

Speaker 2 You've served our country. You've gone to school.
I'm seeing you provide. I'm working hard.
I'm out of a wheelchair. I'm working when I can.

Speaker 2 We've gone nowhere for a decade. And in 10 years from now, I want things to look different.
What must be true today?

Speaker 2 So that 10 years from now, things look different.

Speaker 4 That makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 2 And we're just going to build a map. And that's going to include you having hard conversations like,

Speaker 2 we can't afford this truck and I know you want it and I want you to have it, but we have a math problem right now.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 Okay. And this is a rebuild.
We're going to rebuild our marriage the same way as we're going to rebuild our finances. And none of this is easy.
You're going to choose your hard path.

Speaker 2 The hard path of continuing to do the same thing over and over and over again and end up 10 years from now, just further behind, just with more repairs on a trailer?

Speaker 2 Or are we going to do the hard thing in 10 years from now, like George said, we're moving into a new house that we put 40% down on? And it's going to look very, very different. Thank you for the call.

Speaker 2 You get to choose.

Speaker 1 This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 We are back on The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr.
John Deloney. And if you're watching on YouTube or the Ramsey Network app, you'll notice there's another handsome guy next to us.

Speaker 1 And that is Tom Billieu. He's become a friend of the show.
You probably have seen his face on YouTube. You probably listen to the podcast.
Impact Theory is the media company that he co-founded.

Speaker 1 And before that, he co-founded a little company, a little startup called Quest Nutrition, from nothing to a billion-dollar business in five years and exited from that.

Speaker 1 And so he's just this amazing serial entrepreneur. And we align with a lot of things, Tom.
It's an honor to have you.

Speaker 5 It's an honor to be here. You guys have been a lot of fun.
I have really enjoyed my time with you.

Speaker 1 It's always surprising when we're fun, John. People don't expect that.

Speaker 2 No, they think I'm fun.

Speaker 2 The jury's out on you. And so it's good.
It's good to hear that we're both fun.

Speaker 1 We've got to hang out and do interviews and stuff for our other shows these last few days. And it's amazing to me that

Speaker 1 the alignment we have with transformation and purpose and delayed gratification. You know, Dave, people say he's an overnight success after 30 years of being in business, scratching and clawing.

Speaker 1 And we talked about this idea of entrepreneurship, which is something you're no stranger to. And who is this for?

Speaker 1 And I want you to tell people who you think entrepreneurship is for, because there's a fallacy out there with young people going, I'm going to go work four hours a week and I'm going to crush it, not work a nine to five.

Speaker 5 Yeah, so the ingredients of an entrepreneur are going to be a high tolerance for risk and a just desperate desire to be punched in the face.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 that's

Speaker 5 you have those. Boy, do I have something for you.

Speaker 5 So, yeah, I mean, that's the hard reality is building something big is extremely difficult. Now, it's incredibly gratifying and it puts you in control of your own life.
And it is,

Speaker 5 if you are a competitor and you always wanted to play sports, but maybe you weren't gifted at that, but you really want to compete at something that matters to you, that you love, you have passion for, that's business.

Speaker 5 And you don't wear out. And in fact, in many ways, the older you get, the better you get.
And there are limitations.

Speaker 5 You do fatigue a little bit earlier as you get older, but it's pretty extraordinary. Business is the game of athletics that you never have to retire from.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 that's fascinating because we have young people exiting the workforce in record numbers because, quote unquote, they don't want to work for anybody and they want to set their own hours.

Speaker 2 That's sideways, right?

Speaker 5 They are so misunderstanding what is about to happen.

Speaker 2 So there you go.

Speaker 5 Nobody works more than the CEO. Now, you do get the autonomy.
So if they're like me and they are pathologically incapable of working for somebody else, which is not a good thing.

Speaker 1 That's Dave Ramsey. You just described him.

Speaker 5 If you really just can't do it, then it is liberating. But like there have been periods in my life where I'm working 120 hours a week for eight months straight.
It's grueling.

Speaker 5 This last round, my wife had to come up and say, you're now damaging our marriage, which is like

Speaker 5 an alarm bell that she can ring at any time. And she said, yeah, this is getting too much.
And so

Speaker 5 you're not going to work less. You are for sure going to work more because what they think they're up against is their boss.
And they're forgetting that their boss is up against the marketplace.

Speaker 5 And so now when you go out into the real world, you're up against the marketplace, man. And the right way to think about the marketplace is the cold, dead eyes of a shark.
They do not care about you.

Speaker 5 They just want a solution to their problem. And if you can deliver it, then they feel like you're bestie, right? Because you've solved the problem for them.
The second you don't, they're out.

Speaker 5 They do not care. So

Speaker 5 it's brutal.

Speaker 1 So I guess leaving your nine to five because of the stress and anxiety and trading that for entrepreneurship,

Speaker 1 you may not relieve that part.

Speaker 5 You may not. But look, there are companies that you can find that you may align with more and work better.
I'm not saying stay in a job that you don't want because it's worse out there. No, no, no.

Speaker 5 If control is your game, go start your own thing, but there's going to be a high price to pay for that.

Speaker 5 If you hate your current job, make sure that your skills are such that you can go find another one, but go find it. I mean, you can and should love Mondays as much as you love a Friday or Saturday.

Speaker 5 And that's real, but most people don't get good enough to put themselves in that position.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Well, John, one of your hallmark philosophies is that winning won't make you well.
And you've experienced this, Tom. You were worth millions on paper, and yet you were miserable.

Speaker 1 What happened there? And what have you learned since then?

Speaker 2 In addition to that question, will you paint us a picture? I just imagine you sell Quest for a billion dollars.

Speaker 2 And I'm making up a number here just for fun, but they move 500 million bucks into escrow for you and you wake up the next day.

Speaker 5 Still time. Well, the crazy thing is it actually happened in real time.
So you're on a call with all these lawyers. There's literally like nine or 10 lawyers.

Speaker 5 And I was in the gym in my garage at that point. So living a sort of nice middle class, upper middle class life at that point.
And we're in our just ugly.

Speaker 5 You have to imagine something ugly with a lot of spider webs. Okay, so that's where we're at.
And I'm on the phone with the lawyers and they count down. Lawyer one, ready to transfer.

Speaker 5 Two, ready to transfer. And they go around the room.
They all have to be.

Speaker 2 It's like a rocket ship.

Speaker 5 Literally.

Speaker 5 And so then they press the button and you just sit there on your banking app and you hit refresh refresh refresh and then all of a sudden boom it's crazy wow now the best part is you throw your fists in the air you're like oh my god we really made it i'm out of this no more spider webs for me yeah and uh and you're like oh but wait a second i have all the same insecurities that i had 45 seconds ago you go with you yeah so it the thing i want people to understand is money's more powerful than you think don't listen to anybody that says money doesn't matter money matters a lot but it will not make you respect yourself.

Speaker 5 And so once you understand psychologically, all you actually care about is, do I respect myself? You can lose if you respect yourself.

Speaker 5 But if you win and don't respect yourself, you will still be in emotional turmoil.

Speaker 5 And so thankfully, I had already learned that lesson from the period you're talking about where I was worth a couple million bucks on paper and I was completely miserable.

Speaker 5 So I was like, huh, telling the world that I'm a multi-millionaire has solved exactly zero problems for me. So now what is this really about?

Speaker 5 And at the time, I would have said it's about feeling alive.

Speaker 5 Now what I would tell you is that if you want to feel good, like really good, the money's great, it'll be a cool thing, but it's about becoming the kind of person that is capable of winning a championship.

Speaker 5 So if you understand, it's better to be playing in the championship game and lose and never get the ring than to sit on the bench of a team that wins the ring.

Speaker 5 I would rather have been on the field, played my guts out, and just not won. It just didn't work out for me.
But I was there, man, and I pushed myself and I played. Like that I can handle.

Speaker 5 But winning and knowing I didn't contribute, yikes.

Speaker 2 That's tough. Yeah.
That's tough, tough, tough, tough.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you say struggle well. Struggle toward the thing that is worth struggling for.

Speaker 5 Yeah, because no one can guarantee success, but you can guarantee the struggle. I promise.
If you try something sufficiently difficult, you will struggle for sure.

Speaker 5 And so now just were were you struggling towards something that you enjoyed even while you were losing? And that's the right way to pursue something.

Speaker 2 So you've developed a reputation as

Speaker 2 what I would say

Speaker 2 one of the most hyper intentional people I've ever been around.

Speaker 2 Like thoughtful. Like, I want to solve for this.
I'm going to reverse engineer it and solve for this. And I want a better marriage.
I'm going to...

Speaker 2 reverse engineer this and I want to make this much money so I'm going to reverse engineer my health to be this way

Speaker 2 broken down intentionality is a series of habits How do you teach people those, like, what do you tell people about those habits that you're going to do on a regular basis to get to the thing that you want to get to, whatever that thing happens to be?

Speaker 5 Honestly, I repeat this a lot when people ask, but I never go out of my way to tell people. But if somebody's asking a specific question about what I do, I will tell them what I do.

Speaker 5 I will tell them why I do it. But the short answer is everything I do, I do for cognitive optimization.
So whether you're trying to be a better husband,

Speaker 5 if you have brain fog, if you're tired all the time, if you're grumpy, you're never going to be able to help.

Speaker 5 And so this is why I say I want people to understand they are having a biological experience. So get sleep, get sunlight in your eyes, make sure that your diet is on point.

Speaker 5 Like if you said, Tom, you need to improve somebody's life, but you can only touch one metric. The metric that I would go for is blood sugar.

Speaker 5 And so if you let me control your blood sugar, one, it's going to positively impact your sleep, which people don't see coming. It's going to have a massive impact on your joints.

Speaker 5 And it, from a metabolic standpoint, is probably the leading indicator of brain fog, fatigue, being hangry, all that stuff.

Speaker 5 And so you would not expect somebody to say, one of, there are many more, but one of the keys to my success as an entrepreneur is my ability to get control of my body.

Speaker 5 I used to be 60 pounds heavier, 6'0. Wow.
And it took me two years to lose that weight. I've kept it off for almost a decade.
It's just really simple rules that if you follow, you're going to be fine.

Speaker 5 That's amazing.

Speaker 1 Tom Tom Bill, you go check him out. That's B-I-L-Y-E-U.

Speaker 1 And be sure to go to impacttheory.com, check out Impact Theory University, and of course, his amazing show where he talks to the best minds in the world with fascinating conversations.

Speaker 1 Tom, thanks for joining us today.

Speaker 2 Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr.
John Deloney. Well, John, the Live Like No One Else cruise is almost sold out.
More than 80% of the cabins are already booked.

Speaker 1 So if you want to to join us in March of 2025, secure your cabin today.

Speaker 2 How's the... I heard you had a Gmail list going for your cannonball competition that you wanted to.

Speaker 1 We're working on it. Yeah.
I clicked the Gmail list. Is that a dig?

Speaker 2 It's a Google Doc form. I was trying to think of a technology thing.

Speaker 2 I've never even used that. I was going to say a yellow pad, but you don't have that.

Speaker 1 No, I don't think my body could even... create a splash if I cannonballed.
Yeah, you'd be a little bit more

Speaker 1 small divers. Exactly.

Speaker 2 Loop.

Speaker 1 It's amazing. Well, if if you don't know what the Ramsey Cruise is, the Live Like No One Else Cruise, it's the ultimate debt-free celebration.

Speaker 1 So if you've paid off debt, you've sacrificed, you've paid to win, you've paid the price to win, you're in baby step four or above, this is your time to join us to celebrate.

Speaker 1 We're going to Turks and Caicos, St. Thomas, Puerto Rico, the Bahamas, the whole Ramsey crew, special guests, musicians, magicians, songwriters, celebrity chefs, and even Dr.
John Deloney. We got him.

Speaker 1 We booked him. So it's March 22nd through the 29th of 2025, a seven-day cruise, and it's going to be a blast.
You can secure your spot with a $600 deposit before all the cabins are gone.

Speaker 1 Book it today, ramseysolutions.com slash cruise to get all the info. All right, let's go to the phones.
Haley joins us in Phoenix up next. What's going on, Haley?

Speaker 2 Hi.

Speaker 4 Thanks for taking my call.

Speaker 2 How can we help?

Speaker 4 So I'm 19 and I'm a sophomore in college and my SASA was delayed and I don't know when I'm going to get it.

Speaker 4 So what I budgeted over the summer and thought what I'd be paying for school this semester has more than doubled and I don't know what to do.

Speaker 4 I feel like I've thought of every option I can, but I still feel lost in what I should do.

Speaker 2 Why'd your FAFSA get delayed?

Speaker 4 Because my school counselor basically emailed me and told me that my mom didn't file her 2022 taxes.

Speaker 4 And so that delayed it because I'm still under my mom's insurance. so I have to file with her.
So we had to.

Speaker 2 Well, it's not because of the insurance. That means she's still claiming you as a tax deduction.

Speaker 1 Have you talked to mom about that?

Speaker 2 Yeah, have you talked to mom?

Speaker 4 Yeah, I've talked to her. I basically had to talk her into doing her taxes.
She's not that great with money.

Speaker 4 So

Speaker 4 we had to mail them out since we couldn't submit them digitally. And I basically can't get my aid until I get the 2022 tax transcript.

Speaker 2 Are you already moved in?

Speaker 4 Yeah, I got this email the day I moved in.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 What's the shortfall? How much do you owe?

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 4 I have four payments a month and it's $3,500.

Speaker 4 I paid the August payment and I paid till November. So I've already got the first one out of the way.

Speaker 1 So that buys you another

Speaker 1 few months or what?

Speaker 4 I'm sorry?

Speaker 1 How much time does that buy you before the next payment?

Speaker 4 So I pay every 15th of the month. So I have till September 15th to come up with another $3,500.

Speaker 1 And what did mom say? Does she have any money to help you out with this? Or do you have any savings?

Speaker 4 Yes, so I had an emergency fund, so I dug into that for this. I saved over $6,000, almost $7,000 over the summer.
So I have money left over.

Speaker 4 So

Speaker 4 by the time September 15th comes, I'll have $3,000,

Speaker 4 but I'll be short $400,000 something.

Speaker 4 But I don't get that, I don't get paid till the 18th. So I don't know, I'll have enough by the 18th to pay the rest, but I don't know what the punishment is for paying a few days late.

Speaker 2 Here's what you got to do. You got to go sit down with your financial aid counselor,

Speaker 2 and every university has one,

Speaker 2 and you just have to lay out a map.

Speaker 2 Because here's what I don't want you to do. I don't want you to take all $7,000 that you earned this summer, only to be told mid-October you have to move out.

Speaker 2 Okay. And what you'll have done is burned all of the cash you have.

Speaker 2 You'll have burned your

Speaker 2 you'll be worse off for having gone to college.

Speaker 2 You'll have an unfinished transcript, and they'll either fail you on everything or they'll let you finish a semester and you won't have access to your transcripts until you come up with the rest of the money.

Speaker 4 Okay.

Speaker 2 But I would sit down with the financial aid counselor and say, here's the map. Here's my plan on how I can pay this.
But I'm going to be three days late here. I'm going to be four days late here.

Speaker 2 There is a Hail Mary pass here.

Speaker 2 This time at the end, I mean, at the beginning of every school year,

Speaker 2 there's sometimes an overspend overspend and sometimes an underspend of scholarship dollars. Colleges will

Speaker 2 budget just like we all budget.

Speaker 2 They budget for how much scholarship dollars they're going to spend depending on how many ACT scores of a 29 they think they're going to get and how many athletes they're going to get, et cetera.

Speaker 2 Sometimes they come through and a whole bunch of students, kind of like an airplane, they oversell the airplane and a whole bunch of students show up with 30 ACTs and they overspend their scholarship budget.

Speaker 2 Also, they often underspend it.

Speaker 2 And so there may be, this is Hail Mary Pass, there may be a pocket of unspent scholarship dollars still there that they can move to your account and get you through this semester.

Speaker 2 Here's the ugly truth. There's not a long-term fix to this.

Speaker 2 You're going to have to decide in realistic fashion, can I afford to go to school here? And George and I are both going to tell you, please don't take out loans.

Speaker 2 Please don't even mess with the fast stuff. You can't afford it.
You can't afford it. You can't afford afford it.

Speaker 2 That means we have to go look at other alternatives: working all the way through school, going to a community college there in Arizona that they're going to pay for.

Speaker 2 Any number of other options that you can afford, but right now you're driving Alexis that you can't afford it. It doesn't matter that everyone around you is taking out money.

Speaker 2 George and I are just telling you, we've had to pay off student loans after we graduate, and it's a nightmare.

Speaker 2 It's tough. Yeah.

Speaker 2 But I would go sit with a college official, ASAP, and get their plan in writing

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 out what happens if we get to October and I don't have the other $3,000 to finish the semester. What are you going to actually do?

Speaker 2 And are you going to kick me out of school, make me move out? Like, what's the deal?

Speaker 2 But I don't want you waiting on mom's FAFSA to come in so that you can borrow your way into staying. That's just punting this inevitable trap downstream.
And

Speaker 2 the graduates who have gone before you owe in the, was it $1.8 trillion at this point?

Speaker 2 And I just, I just can't in good faith tell you to join that crew.

Speaker 1 What are you studying, Harry?

Speaker 4 Forensic science.

Speaker 1 Are there other programs, universities, even online options you could do that would be cheaper in case you can't afford this?

Speaker 4 So I have looked into this.

Speaker 4 I work for the state of Arizona. So they had this program that I was looking into where they reimburse you and basically help you pay for your school.

Speaker 2 Excellent.

Speaker 4 But they only offer it for online students. And unfortunately, since I'm a science major and I have lab courses, I can't be an online student.

Speaker 4 But I also thought about commuting to school because I live an hour away from where I go to school.

Speaker 2 How many days a week? Because I live on campus.

Speaker 4 I have classes five days a week.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 I did this when I lived at home, and I made sure my schedule was, I packed everything in on three days. to limit my commute.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Once you're not a sophomore anymore, you have a lot of more, you have a little bit more flexibility schedule-wise, sometimes, sometimes not.

Speaker 2 But hey, take that scholarship in, take that reimbursement in, and sit with your financial aid counselor and say, I need us to figure this out.

Speaker 2 And often universities will do what they can because they want to receive money from any outside source possible. And they may figure out a way to help you do this.

Speaker 2 And it could be a classification code. Another thing you may want to try to do is see if you can, you got a job with the state of Arizona.
Is there a way you can get a job at the university?

Speaker 2 Because that often comes with a tuition discount or a full reimbursement there too. But continue to beat the drum and beat the drum with this one idea.
I'm not going to borrow any money.

Speaker 1 It's going to take getting creative, Haley. We're wishing you the best.
All right, for all of you listening to this show on YouTube or podcast, it is about to end.

Speaker 1 But good news, more calls are coming up in the Ramsey Network mobile app, and that's where you can finish full episodes of the Ramsey show. And if you're listening on radio, stay right where you are.

Speaker 1 The show will continue as scheduled. Two ways to get the free app.
You can click the link in the show notes or just search Ramsey Network in the App Store or Google Play.

Speaker 1 You don't want to miss what's coming up next. I can see some hot calls on the board, John.
It's going to be a fun hour next.

Speaker 2 Hot calls.

Speaker 1 That's what we say. So go finish the show in the Ramsey Network app for free, and we will see you there.
That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.