4 Ways Money Can Make You Happier

Speaker 1 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships.

Speaker 1 I am Rachel Cruz, hosting this hour with my good friend and best-selling author, Dr. John Deloney, and we'll be answering your calls.
And it's a free call anywhere in the country at 888-825-5225.

Speaker 1 So give us a call. We'll be talking about your life, your money, your relationships, your career, anything and everything.
So up first in Dallas, Texas, we have Beth and Margie on the line.

Speaker 1 Hey, ladies, welcome to the show.

Speaker 3 Thank you so much for having us on. We're really excited to talk to you.

Speaker 1 For sure, is it Beth that I'm speaking to?

Speaker 2 Yes, Beth. Perfect.
Hold up, before we get to it, I like how you did that, Rachel. There's a comedian says you can just add the word ladies on the end of any sentence to make it weird.

Speaker 2 You can just be like...

Speaker 1 I always say it's the ladies. I know.

Speaker 2 You can just say like, hey,

Speaker 2 can I run to the store real quick? Ladies?

Speaker 2 So Rachel's like, all right, let's go out to the

Speaker 1 ladies. Well, I saw two.
We never get two callers.

Speaker 2 I know. Oh, my God.
All right. So what's up, Beth?

Speaker 3 Yeah, so I'm calling because I'm the avid listener.

Speaker 3 And I instantly, as soon as my sister told me about her situation, I I was like well what would Dave do so

Speaker 3 my my sister Margie is getting married in October and she's paying for it herself and so she's been planning a lot of it by herself and

Speaker 3 she eventually hired a wedding planner but she

Speaker 3 first off of like secured the venue and the room block on her own in the spring before the wedding planner came into the picture And Margie's never gotten married before, so she kind of doesn't really know how room blocks work and so she requested

Speaker 3 to put 30 rooms for five nights into the room block and when she talked to the catering manager the catering manager told her oh you can just release the rooms at a certain date it's you don't have to worry and so she was not worried and so um the sales manager a different person sent her a contract

Speaker 3 And it said that they were guaranteed rooms and she signed it. And so now they're saying that she's responsible for like $35,000

Speaker 3 because there was an attrition fee clause in it.

Speaker 3 So only like a small percentage of the guests booked that potential 150 rooms. And so she's getting stuck with the bill.

Speaker 3 And like the wedding's already pretty tight for her. She really just can't even afford that.
So I'm just wondering, what would y'all do if you were in her shoes?

Speaker 1 Has she called the hotel and asked to void the contract completely?

Speaker 3 Margie, do you want to answer?

Speaker 3 Yeah, so I basically spoke with my wedding planner.

Speaker 2 Not the wedding planner.

Speaker 1 No, have you contacted the hotel? Because you were the one that signed the contract.

Speaker 3 Right. I did immediately send the catering manager of sales

Speaker 3 an email saying that, you know, this was way above my means and I was you know told that I was going to essentially be able to let the rooms go as the date got closer

Speaker 3 and they said that they would they've kind of just been giving me the runarounds so they've said that they'll speak with their supervisor but at this time they're not allowed to you know make any decisions

Speaker 3 so what I did get them to do was you know I was saying

Speaker 3 you know, if I'm going to be tied to these rooms, then why wouldn't I be allowed to have this room block until the day of the wedding if i'm going to be responsible for it anyway so i did get them to extend to september 27th

Speaker 3 um so i got like a whole nother month to be able to book but that's pretty much all that they're doing at this point

Speaker 2 are you are are you in the local area here

Speaker 2 in dallas you mean yeah do you live around the hotel no it's it's a destination wedding okay yeah um since you're on the hook contractually for thirty five thousand

Speaker 2 just my experience has been

Speaker 2 there's so many like I stayed in this beautiful teeny tiny boutique hotel

Speaker 2 this past like two days ago, two nights ago in a tiny little town in Pennsylvania. And as I walked in, there was a plaque outside and it said buy Hilton.

Speaker 2 So what I've come to find is all these hotels are owned by bigger chains that are owned by bigger chains. And some of these are publicly traded.
All I have to say is nobody cares.

Speaker 2 And if I was on the hook contractually for $35,000, I would get on a Southwest flight and I would fly to Dallas and meet with somebody face to face because they don't care.

Speaker 2 And they're holding a piece of paper that has you contractually bound to this. And I think until you look at somebody in the eye and say, I don't think you get it.
I don't have this money.

Speaker 2 This person right here told me something different.

Speaker 2 You sue me. Take my, I don't have it.
And we have to, we have to come to an agreement here. Y'all can still rent these rooms.
You got, you got two months

Speaker 2 but i i think they're going to prey on a your ignorance and signing a contract you didn't know what it meant and they're also going to prey on the fact that this is just all hearsay all phone calls all emails back and forth like getting a human being in a room is a totally different proposition

Speaker 1 where where is it is it in a different country

Speaker 3 no

Speaker 3 okay yes the us it's the southeast okay um

Speaker 1 yeah i mean i would do i would do that because I think the longer you extend this into September, I mean, which is next month, they're losing out on revenue.

Speaker 2 They're going to have a claim against you.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, well, they're going to lose out on revenue of rooms that they could have booked and made, like, right, that will be their argument. And so it gets really, it gets really hard

Speaker 1 from a legal standpoint when you sign a contract, though.

Speaker 1 That's the part that's like, oh, gosh, because I mean, you signed it, right? It wasn't that,

Speaker 1 you know, they forged your signature or identity theft or, you know, some situation.

Speaker 1 And even though you didn't know what it meant or that someone verbally said something else, like none of that really matters in the legal world. What is on paper is what is true.

Speaker 1 So I almost would find the contacts that did say that to you verbally

Speaker 1 and see if you can get something in writing from them just to help the argument that this is what you were told under those assumptions.

Speaker 1 But the hard thing is, is that if the contract doesn't say that,

Speaker 2 it didn't matter.

Speaker 2 no lower level employee, unless those of the highest character would say, yeah, I said that.

Speaker 2 And they may have said that and it may have been true. And whoever sent you the contract sent you the one that was going to be best for them, most advantageous for them.

Speaker 2 And that's the one with your name on it. So

Speaker 2 where I've seen people go wrong, and I've been guilty of this too, is coming at this like angrily. It's not fair.
You did this. I think your best play here is to plead mercy.

Speaker 2 I signed my name on something I didn't understand. I didn't understand it.
I'm begging you guys for mercy. I don't have this money.

Speaker 2 And you'll have two months to redo these to put these rooms back on the market.

Speaker 1 Yeah, how many rooms have you sold or has been used in the block?

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 basically,

Speaker 3 I'm on the hook for

Speaker 3 like 150 rooms, and I've sold, I believe, like 30.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 Holy

Speaker 2 shit.

Speaker 3 Yeah, so it's like, and then I have to make up to like.

Speaker 1 Where are the other guests staying?

Speaker 3 Well, so even though it's a destination, like it's a destination for a lot of my relatives, but I've lived here.

Speaker 2 So it's like,

Speaker 2 well, here's the other thing you could do. You could just go downtown and say party at your hotel.

Speaker 2 And you could tell the hotel people that, hey, if

Speaker 2 you're going to hold me to these rooms, you are not going to like the characters. I'm going to come parading through.
Oh, my gosh. It's like a threat.

Speaker 2 You can go down to like a punk rock show and just be like free hotels.

Speaker 1 I mean, honestly, I think I would go, John, to go

Speaker 1 in person and get the highest level you can and plead mercy. Because if your signature is on a contract, it's really hard to avoid that unless an actual human will do that for you.

Speaker 1 This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 One of the events that we do here at Ramsey that's been so fun and very popular, sold out, is the Money in Marriage Getaway.

Speaker 2 And my favorite thing.

Speaker 1 John and I, we host this event. We teach at it.

Speaker 1 It's a full weekend, long event, full experience as well for you and your spouse because, yeah, life's hectic and getting time away to, you know, actually

Speaker 1 work on, talk about, be in your marriage, actually, and working on it is huge. So we launched this event one one in October, and it sold out very quickly.

Speaker 1 And so, we decided to open up another weekend. So, this Valentine's weekend, you guys, in 2025,

Speaker 1 we are hosting the money and marriage getaway here at Ramsey Solutions. So, we're going to talk about how to communicate better, strengthen your emotional connection, get on the same page with money.

Speaker 1 We do live QAs, we hang out with you guys. There's a few date night experiences.
Like, we just, we, we pack the weekend out. And so, we are so excited about it.

Speaker 1 So, make sure to check it out at ramseysolutions.com slash events tickets start at $799 a couple and there's even a few VIP tickets left as well so go to ramseysolutions.com slash events for the money and marriage getaway at Valentine's Day 2025.

Speaker 2 And I think this is a double dip

Speaker 2 ticket. You can buy this ticket for your spouse for Christmas and then it's on Valentine's weekend.
So you get two for one. Like you don't have to.

Speaker 1 I think you have to get a Valentine's gift.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So if you're sitting there going, man, I hate having to buy this, you can solve all your problems with one purchase.

Speaker 1 Do it all there. So good.
All right. Up next, we have Jeremy in Los Angeles.
Hey, Jeremy, welcome to the show.

Speaker 2 Jeremy Spoken. What's up, dude?

Speaker 1 Jeremy, are you there?

Speaker 2 Jeremy. He didn't like my Pearl Jackson.
How are you doing, man? Oh, there he is.

Speaker 1 Hey, Jeremy. Sorry that John was singing.

Speaker 2 Sorry that I was singing.

Speaker 3 Oh, it's all good. Thank you, man.
Thanks for taking my call. I just had a, I wanted your guys' opinion.
I didn't really know who

Speaker 3 to ask, but I'm a big fan of the show. I'm an over-the-road truck driver.
And I listen to you guys all the time. So I just wanted your guys' opinion about my situation.

Speaker 2 Awesome. Yeah.
What's up?

Speaker 3 So basically, yeah, a couple of years ago, I took out a hundred grand personal loan to start a trucking business,

Speaker 3 my own truck. So

Speaker 3 I've been rolling and I had a cool little plan, but it's just real hard to pay everything off with the maintenance and then being on the road, stuff like that.

Speaker 3 So I have a a, I pay about $8,000 a month right now to just break even,

Speaker 3 and I'm about $80,000 in the hole. So, I try to do the remaining balance and chop off.

Speaker 3 I have five loans out right now, and I've been trying to pay extra, but just with mechanics and trucking and all that maintenance and stuff, I've just been ready to just throw in the towel and sinking you.

Speaker 1 Yeah, so you bought your own truck,

Speaker 3 correct.

Speaker 3 I've been running California and Texas back and I kind of just go off the market. I don't know if you're familiar with the trucking market, but it's terrible for owner operators right now.

Speaker 2 It's real bad. Are you doing side side jobs too? Or are you stuck running the same route?

Speaker 3 That's the problem. So like I it takes so

Speaker 3 it's to make more money, I have to just live on the road, which I didn't really know because I was a company guy for 13 years. Yeah.
So I kind of go I do I have a little dedicated lane.

Speaker 3 I go do it and get home on the weekends, which is brings me me about $3,000,000 to $3,500 a week. So I try to do that four times and then

Speaker 3 chop the debt down. But I'm here almost three years in and I just, it's going really, really slow.
And I'm just like,

Speaker 3 maintenance is killing me right now. And then the market is just terrible.

Speaker 2 Man, I hate that for you, brother.

Speaker 2 Yeah, have you.

Speaker 3 I'm just trying to think about because

Speaker 1 you were working for someone is what you're saying for three years. And how long have you been on your own?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I've been on my own for three years. I've been been working

Speaker 2 for a big company.

Speaker 3 Yeah, a big company for about 13 years, and I just got tired of corporate America, so I wanted to try it on my own. Yeah, the problem is, if I go back to company now, I can't pay my bills.

Speaker 2 Well, let me ask you:

Speaker 2 how much is your truck worth if you sold it?

Speaker 3 Yeah, right. So, right now, I owe $40,000 on my truck.
It's worth about $15,000 or $20,000 because I already hit my million miles.

Speaker 2 Oh, you did?

Speaker 2 Right. Okay, so

Speaker 1 you're making 12 grand a month is what you said, right? You're bringing in three.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 1 10 to 12. Your expenses are 8,000.
Is that just for the truck?

Speaker 3 So 4,000 is my, you know, regular personal stuff, family stuff, and then 4,000 for the business.

Speaker 1 What's your family situation? Are they back in L.A. while you're traveling?

Speaker 2 Is that like a wife and kids and all that?

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 3 Yeah, my wife stays home, takes care of my kids and my daughter, and then I get home on the weekend. It's just, it's just stressful, man.

Speaker 2 I'm just like, man, should I keep going little by little?

Speaker 3 Or my wife tells me to go hit the road and just stay out there, but that's

Speaker 2 personally. No, that's not a good solution.
What like you said you got four or five outstanding debts. Rip them off for me.
What are the what are they?

Speaker 3 All right, number one is going to be my truck, which is 40. Number two is

Speaker 3 another $30,000 loan because my transmission went out. So that's $70,000, and then I have a couple small credit cards.

Speaker 1 70? Is that what you said?

Speaker 3 Correct. 40 and 30, and then I have a couple small credit cards.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 3 So my plan was to make my $3,000 a week and then just pay my, you know, three, three weeks, pay my monthly stuff, and then the extra one, just try to chop it away.

Speaker 3 But man, the extra one has been going to maintenance.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and the $30,000 was to do a train.

Speaker 3 What what was the 30 000 did you say a transmission the 30 i took another another little longer because my transmission went out and okay was way upside down with some debt so that's why i got another 30 so my truck i'm doing okay because i bought it for 75 i got it down to 40 but like i said i bought it in 22 and the market was great so as soon as i bought it like a year later everything crashed yeah but my fear my fear is you're gonna my fear is you're gonna get all this you're gonna take this 70 grand you owe 30 and 40 on this truck

Speaker 2 in the in the transmission.

Speaker 3 I'm due to pay it off. I'm due to pay off that portion like probably the end of next year if I keep running hard.

Speaker 2 I know, but then you'll be up to 1.4 million miles on this truck. 1.

Speaker 3 Yeah, 1.2, 1.3.

Speaker 2 You're going to be just in the same situation after Toronto take out another $100,000 loan, man.

Speaker 2 Well, if it's paid, yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean, honestly, Jeremy, if it's paid off at that point,

Speaker 1 then

Speaker 1 I would look to jump ship.

Speaker 2 You got to get out. Yeah.
I mean, so

Speaker 1 how much are you making a year, Jeremy? How much are you bringing in a year?

Speaker 3 So, yeah, so I'm going to be making like almost 300 this year. Yeah.
And I'm only going to take home like probably my net will probably be 80 to 100.

Speaker 2 It's crazy. Why is that?

Speaker 3 Just maintenance, and there's a lot of expenses. The gross for trucking is really high, but your net is just really low.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Like, for example, this week I make $8,000 and I take call about $3,800.

Speaker 2 And do you have to pay your own gas and all insurance all that out of that out of that money?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I spend $2,000 a week just on fuel. I lease on to a company.

Speaker 2 Is there no different routes to take?

Speaker 3 There is other routes, but then I live on the road and in my head, I go crazy after a couple of weeks.

Speaker 1 So what I would do, Jeremy, honestly, because you said by the time, by the end of next year,

Speaker 1 you got two more, you know, a year and four months to be able to get this paid off.

Speaker 1 And, you know, and I would say, you know, when we talk to people on this show, and we're like, you, you got to do everything. You got to get side jobs.
You're going to be working nights.

Speaker 1 You're going to be working weekends. I mean, there is an all-in approach.

Speaker 1 And the pro is your all-in approach to make great money is something you know and you have a vested interest in because of this asset.

Speaker 1 So, I mean, I would map out with your wife and say, okay, I can't survive a year and four months with this schedule. I can't.

Speaker 1 I'm going to implode. So, what is a realistic schedule? And that may push the debt out another maybe four or five months for your sanity purposes.

Speaker 1 But I would sit down and I would do a really detailed schedule to say, okay, this is the week.

Speaker 1 Here's the month I'm traveling. I'm going to take this week off here.
I'm going to travel these three, like map out what seems realistic because you're able to bring in good money.

Speaker 1 And I get that it's being sucked down because of, because of the truck, but I think you can pay this off.

Speaker 1 I mean, when you, when you look at what, what you're actually bringing in, and I would tell your wife, like, you know, we got to be on a tight budget at home.

Speaker 2 Is she working?

Speaker 3 She doesn't know. I had her quit to stay home with my daughter.

Speaker 2 I think you got

Speaker 2 to stop. You're going to, it's going to cost you your marriage and your relationship with your kid.
She's got to get a job too in this season. That would accelerate all of this so fast.

Speaker 1 And then, once all this has paid off, then you guys reevaluate what you want to do with your life. That's right.

Speaker 1 And you may just get rid of the truck and make five grand on it and go start something else that gives you your life back.

Speaker 2 Dude, you got the ring and you went for it and you got knocked down. That's all right,

Speaker 2 but you can't keep throwing the same punches right now. Thanks, Jeremy.

Speaker 1 This is the ramsey show

Speaker 1 welcome back to the ramsey show i'm rachel cruise hosting this hour with dr john deloney taking your calls at triple eight eight two five five two two five up next we have terry in little rock arkansas hey terry welcome to the show hey how you guys doing today we're doing great how can we help I'm doing pretty well.

Speaker 3 First of all, I'd like to say I'm a huge fan of the show. You guys have

Speaker 3 motivated me. I got on to you guys about maybe about three or four years ago.

Speaker 2 Awesome. Well, thanks.

Speaker 1 Thanks for listening.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I've been following the baby steps and everything. So I paid, so my question is,

Speaker 3 I owe $10,000 on my car.

Speaker 3 And I have two credit cards left.

Speaker 3 One balance is $7,000 and one is $6,000.

Speaker 3 And I have a tax bill I got to pay that's like five.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 I have $14,000 in savings. So I'm trying to decide on, I think I want to wipe my savings out, but I'm trying to see which direction I should go.
Should I pay my car first just to get that out the way?

Speaker 3 Because that'll free up like about $550 a month. Or should I just go ahead and wipe the two remaining credit cards out?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, what we teach is paying off the smallest debt first, regardless of payments or interest.

Speaker 1 And what we have found, it is the most effective way.

Speaker 1 But first and foremost, let me just say before we get into that, that if you owe the IRS, that's the very first tax, even if it's not the lowest, in your case, it is.

Speaker 1 But for people listening, if it's not the lowest, it's still the number one priority is you do not want to owe the IRS. So I would be, yeah, I would be paying that off first and foremost for sure.

Speaker 1 Okay. Yep.
And that leaves you, yeah, with nine. You want a thousand dollar emergency fund, so you'll have eight left.

Speaker 1 So I would knock out that first credit card, the $6,000 credit card, bring your $7,000 credit card down to six,

Speaker 1 and then start chipping that away, and then your car.

Speaker 3 Okay. Okay.
That's what I was trying to decide. Because I knew I wanted, I was like, I got, because I was so strange, I got to looking over my

Speaker 3 credit report and I got to see an auto view. Because I mean, I've been gazelle intense on paying.
I've paid out five cars recently, you guys.

Speaker 1 Oh, my gosh.

Speaker 2 Five cars.

Speaker 1 What makes you have five cars?

Speaker 2 No, no, cars.

Speaker 2 Oh, I think they said cars. I was like, Terry, let's sell some of these cars.
We don't have to pay them off.

Speaker 3 Oh, no.

Speaker 2 Hell no. Hell no.
I don't want the, I don't like the one that I have. Oh, man.
That's so great. Hey, can I just tell you, can we celebrate you for a second? Sure.
That's incredible. It is amazing.

Speaker 2 What's the dollar amount on those five cards?

Speaker 3 One of them was $6,000.

Speaker 3 One One of them was 2,000.

Speaker 3 One was 500.

Speaker 3 One was 4,000.

Speaker 3 And one was 3,000.

Speaker 2 Man. And one of them was 1,200, I believe.
Amazing. Gosh.

Speaker 1 So, Terry, were you just, for just those of you, everyone listening and watching, I'm just curious context of your life.

Speaker 1 Was it kind of just like, yeah, I'm going to just swipe cards here or there, and I'm just living my life. And you did that for years and years.

Speaker 3 And then you looked up one day and thought, I don't want to keep doing this I got I got what well what happened was I got hooked on the the balance transfer uh hamster wheel okay you know once the 18 months runs out well I just open up another one and just trans you know that which was totally foolish

Speaker 2 you were gonna be the one guy that beat the system huh

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah, and I found out the hard way, especially when

Speaker 3 the pandemic had hit and things that kind kind of had slowed up and then when you look at those payments and you know once that zero balance wears off and you get one card that says $187 for the payment and then you make that payment and 150 goes towards interest and 20 goes towards that's right

Speaker 3 so I just you know

Speaker 3 listening at you guys I was like you know this this is this has got to see and I you know what's funny is since I paid those amounts I'm starting to see

Speaker 3 a little bit more money in my pocket.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's so true. And hey, that's what I mean.
You're feeling, you're a perfect example, Terry, of why we teach it the way we teach it.

Speaker 2 Because we get a lot of grief on the internet because somebody has a 2.9% or a

Speaker 2 3.0%

Speaker 2 mortgage. And they can put it in a high-yield savings account and make 5%.
So they make 2%. And they call us stupid because we tell you to pay your house off.
Right.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 you are getting the psychology part, which I believe in many cases is more important than math, which is you've had five wins and you're starting to come alive.

Speaker 2 Like now it's starting to be like, I'm done with all this. You see what I'm saying? Like if you had started with a car,

Speaker 2 you may have got halfway through it and said, forget it, man. I've been paying on this thing for five months and whatever.
Not saying progress.

Speaker 2 But you got the little one and then another little one and then another little one. And now you're, now you're fully in it, man.
How much do you make a year?

Speaker 3 Well, I got a couple of side hustles, so total about

Speaker 3 $107,000. That's including my main job and my side hustles I got going on.

Speaker 2 So when you knock this out, you're going to, like, by today, you're going to be done with the government. We don't ever want to owe the government money because they don't act right.

Speaker 2 And then you're going to be done with the $6,000 credit card. You're going to have $1,000, and that's going to make you nervous, but that nervous is good.

Speaker 2 And then you're going to owe $7,000 plus $10,000. So you got $17,000.

Speaker 2 How silly do you want to get?

Speaker 3 How silly do I want? I mean,

Speaker 3 I want this stuff gone.

Speaker 2 Like January 1, silly? Yeah,

Speaker 3 I would love the board to be gone by January.

Speaker 2 Okay, I want you to do this.

Speaker 2 I want you to pay those things off today.

Speaker 2 And then I want you to sit down with a calculator and ask yourself, what must be true between

Speaker 2 now, the end of August, and and January 1. What would I have to do for these last few months to knock out 17 grand?

Speaker 3 I'll definitely.

Speaker 3 Can I give you guys kudos on something else, too?

Speaker 2 For sure.

Speaker 3 You guys actually talked me out of doing a cash out refi.

Speaker 2 No!

Speaker 1 I'm so glad we talked him out of it.

Speaker 2 Good.

Speaker 2 Don't even think about it. Good, good.

Speaker 3 Yeah, you get

Speaker 3 till I find out the stipulations on it. I was like, because, I mean, I got a, my mortgage, my, my interest rate is at pretty much 4.2 right now.

Speaker 3 So, and I got to thinking about like, well, I contacted my mortgage company and they got to talk to me about this cash out refi cash. So, you can do that to pay out bet.

Speaker 3 And I found out exactly what it was. And I think I listened to you guys talk about HELI.
And I was like, I'm not going to do that because that'll change my interest rate. My payment will go up higher.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, what's interesting, Terry, it's the same philosophy of what you were doing, card hopping, basically, right? You run out out.

Speaker 2 Well, I'll remove that balance. It's basically the same.

Speaker 1 You're taking equity out of something else just to move the debt around

Speaker 1 and you're realizing it's not working. Well, Terry, you're amazing.

Speaker 2 So awesome.

Speaker 1 I mean, for real. And I think that this goes to show, which I appreciate you sharing more of your story and where you were at, because, I mean, that's normal.

Speaker 1 I mean, this is what we talk about all the time on this show. And this is what we see.
And until you make the decision, I'm going to try something different like Terry did,

Speaker 1 you're not going to get a different different result. And he's, I mean, he paid off five cards, not cars.
I'm glad it, glad they weren't cars.

Speaker 2 He'll have two more done today. Yeah, he'll have one more card in the government.
For sure. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And part of

Speaker 2 that last credit card.

Speaker 1 So absolutely incredible.

Speaker 2 I want to get to another call, but I just need to say this.

Speaker 2 Everybody think through this.

Speaker 2 These credit card companies would not all work together to allow you to go 18 months, quote-unquote interest-free or whatever and just open another one they wouldn't allow that marry-go-round like you was talking about if they didn't all know they win in the end that's right very there is a mother-in-law out there who's got a spreadsheet who plays this game kind of like bunko and she's doing it she's winning fine

Speaker 2 it's not you The same as the guys who like to day trade, they love you guys because they'll take your money. And it's just knowing like,

Speaker 2 I can't beat these multi, multi, multi-billion dollar companies. They've got better computers than me.
They got better psychologists working for them. At the end of the day, they're going to win.
Yep.

Speaker 2 So I'm just going to play this thing straight up and

Speaker 2 I'm not going to play their game at all. I'm going to opt out.
Right? Yes. Absolutely.
It's just looking in the mirror like Terry did and saying, all right, you got me. Yeah.
You got me.

Speaker 2 I'm going to do something different now. Yeah.
I can't.

Speaker 1 It's kind of that playlist thing. You're going to get bit philosophy to a degree because people are like, well, you could pay your credit card off every month.
You know, the credit card game, even

Speaker 2 to your point, I'm like, they're smarter, you guys they're richer so get out it's like me and instagram and just goes they're better than me so i have to have it on a different phone because they're better than me they just are this is the ramsey show

Speaker 1 welcome back to the ramsey show the question of the day comes from why refi the ramsey show

Speaker 1 uh this is one of our new sponsors which we we love because if you are in default with private student loans you need to contact why refi And obviously, we don't encourage letting your loans go into default.

Speaker 1 We teach responsibility, but these amounts have some of you struggling, and there is a way forward. So, YReFi was created for people in your situation.
So, go to YReFi.com/slash Ramsey.

Speaker 1 That's the letter Y,

Speaker 1 R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. May not be available in all states.

Speaker 2 All right, today's question comes from Justin in Virginia. Justin writes, How can I stop being jealous of of how much my siblings and in-laws earn?

Speaker 2 My wife and I have no debt and a really good household income. We're happy in our careers.
We're not missing out on anything due to how much we earn.

Speaker 2 I just can't figure out how to not be so triggered and frustrated by other people's income. Wow.

Speaker 2 That's a very self-aware question.

Speaker 1 Very interesting. Yes.

Speaker 2 What do you think, Rachel?

Speaker 2 Gosh.

Speaker 1 And I'm curious how he, I wonder if he knows the actual number of the income or if he is making up a story in his head that they're making a ton because of how they're living. Gotcha.

Speaker 1 Because lifestyle and income are obviously two different things.

Speaker 1 So I'd be curious on that. What's causing you to think that they're earning more? Is it because of how they live their life?

Speaker 1 And kind of the sucky part is when you live your life responsibly for a season, it's not going to look flashy. Eventually, you'll start to build wealth and you can enjoy it.

Speaker 1 But there is kind of that season of grounding, which is where you guys are.

Speaker 1 But if you know the number number and you're like, oh no, they make half a million or whatever, crazy a year.

Speaker 1 I mean, I've learned, John, when moments like that come up for me, and it's not income necessarily, it could be, but I don't, I don't hear people's income a lot, but a situation that they're experiencing something that I want to experience, as much as I can muster up just celebrating them, it's amazing how that fades quickly where the eyes off are off of me, my eyes are off of me.

Speaker 1 And you can just be excited for somebody, right? Genuinely, and

Speaker 1 it doesn't always come easy, I don't think, but when you can just be happy for them and hopefully, maybe they're in a great career that's helping other people or something.

Speaker 1 I don't know that you can find like the silver lining in what they're doing and being excited. But the fact that you're being triggered constantly,

Speaker 1 I'm wondering, um, you know, your level of contentment is, is obviously not fully baked, right?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I've, I have found that I always want to pull the string that's attached to that story.

Speaker 2 And somewhere in Justin's heart and mind, the dollar amount that you earn every year is attached to value, to how much you're worth. Yep.
Yep.

Speaker 2 And somebody told you that somewhere, and I found it helpful to get to the, like, where did that story come from? Oh.

Speaker 2 Dad used to tell older brother how great he was because he made $6 an hour. I only made $5, like whatever that story is.

Speaker 2 But the other thing is, I think you're right. I think, Justin, it'd be pretty cool to out of the blue, write your siblings a letter and just say, I see, you you know, I'm so proud of you.

Speaker 2 I see how hard you're working, and I see what an amazing.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 instead of when you feel that jealousy, our tendency is to pull away. Instead of go towards that person to celebrate them, and our bodies have a way of adjusting for that proximity.
Like

Speaker 2 we're in support, and it just over time realizes, I don't have to, we're not in competition. I don't have to fight you.
I have a great life. One other quick thing, often when you are creating a life,

Speaker 2 I'll say it like this, that is less alive.

Speaker 2 When you are in a, we go to work, we make this much money, we have this couch, we have this house, we have this car.

Speaker 2 We were supposed to be happy here.

Speaker 2 It's easy to put your eyes up and start looking for what other people have that you don't.

Speaker 2 And it often, over the course of my life, when I found myself jealous in certain places, it has often brought me and my wife back to the table to say, what life are we creating for ourselves?

Speaker 2 And where do we find excitement and aliveness and adventure and

Speaker 2 joy in our home? Because it's not, I'm starting to look for other places. Yes.

Speaker 2 And it almost always comes back to we've become co-managers of our house.

Speaker 1 Such a great, that's a good point. And so the stagnant, like being stagnant in life.
And I think we've gone through seasons of that of that.

Speaker 1 You look up and you're like, oh my gosh, we've just been doing the same thing and there's not as much laughter or joy or levity.

Speaker 2 That's right. That's right.

Speaker 1 But when you say, no, we're putting the phones away. We're doing family game night and we're going going to do this stupid game that's so silly, but everyone ends up laughing, right?

Speaker 1 You just do these things

Speaker 1 and they don't have to be expensive.

Speaker 1 Gosh, it was last break before the summer, though, I think it was spring. And we took all the kids and we went to a local high school like parking lot, ran with bikes.
And they still talk about it.

Speaker 1 Like, do you remember when we rode bikes at a parking lot?

Speaker 1 And I was like, you ride bikes all the time, but it was like this, like, I don't know, it was so like, it was so small and insignificant, but to them, right?

Speaker 1 It brought this like other magic of like this new place or whatever it was for them but it's those things that again it doesn't have to cost money you have to go you don't have to go travel to europe to do that like find find it in your home um because gosh we need it all of us right especially this time of year

Speaker 1 election season everything we're just like oh my gosh give me some levity and enjoyment with with the people that you love right find those but it's recognizing levity and joy

Speaker 2 for 99 of us is a choice yeah there are people in abusive situations yes there are people who are deep poverty yes there are people who are abjectly on the margins yes.

Speaker 2 But for most of us, we go home and we look at our spouse and we choose what happens next. We choose how we respond.
We choose our frustration.

Speaker 2 We choose to not pick up the trash, not put our clothes away. We choose to just watch TV, just sit there on our phones.
All of those are choices. And that means we can choose something different.
Yep.

Speaker 2 And so, Justin, I challenge you to sit down with your wife. And y'all reimagine your life.

Speaker 2 And you might end up in the exact same space, but the exercise of reimagining it, what adventures do we want to create inside of our own home? Even for no money. What does that look like? Totally.

Speaker 2 It can rearrange everything. And write your siblings a letter, a handwritten letter.
That's a good exercise. How freaking proud of them you are.

Speaker 1 It's so cool. It's going to swallow some pride to do that, right?

Speaker 2 When you're in a state of. Or it opens your heart up and you reach it.

Speaker 1 It does, but that takes a, okay,

Speaker 1 I'm going to celebrate something that is. Not always fun for me, right? But you start to learn it.
So good. All right.
Up next, we have Dan in Eugene, Oregon. Hey, Dan, welcome to the show.

Speaker 3 Hi, Rachel. Hey, John.
How are you?

Speaker 1 We're doing great. How are you?

Speaker 3 I'm, I'm, uh,

Speaker 2 oh, had a rough number of years, I guess.

Speaker 3 Um, my, my question,

Speaker 3 my question for you is: how do I calculate when I can feasibly retire

Speaker 3 and/or when I can start to plan a second career? And the rough years

Speaker 3 is,

Speaker 3 I'm about three years into being a widow, widower.

Speaker 2 I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 Thank you.

Speaker 3 I have three kids. Two of them will go to college.

Speaker 3 I owe $380 on my house.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 I sort of, as I was sort of looking at, as, I don't know, I guess getting our lives back in order over the last number of years,

Speaker 3 one of the the Ramsey quotes of why don't they teach this stuff in school

Speaker 3 is of like, you know, how do you even calculate

Speaker 3 what is the right trajectory? And now that I'm doing it for

Speaker 3 alone, one and two is for myself,

Speaker 3 it's a

Speaker 3 alone, I guess I should say, or as a single person. Sure.

Speaker 2 Yep. How old are you, Dan?

Speaker 3 I'm 48.

Speaker 2 48, okay. Hey, Dan, before Rachel's going to walk you through the numbers of it, can I challenge you on something?

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And this might be a harder exercise than the math problem.

Speaker 2 Sure. But I would love for you to spend some time.
And unfortunately, I don't know that you can do this with anybody other than just taking Dan out on a retreat.

Speaker 2 But I would love for you to figure out or ask yourself, what do you want it to feel like when you walk in your front door at the age of 55?

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's crazy. Because I want you to ask yourself, what kind of life do you want to have at 55? Because that's going to to determine the math problem.

Speaker 1 Yeah, because I think when you get to the numbers really quick, Dan, we only have about 40 seconds, so I'm sorry for the short call.

Speaker 1 It's going to be looking at what do you have in retirement now?

Speaker 1 And then averaging out, you know, average returns, 10 to 12%, whatever that looks like, and knowing your lifestyle, to John's point, how much is it going to take to run your household at retirements?

Speaker 1 And what is it going to look like to be able to,

Speaker 1 you know, you have to. calculate inflation and all of that.
Now, if you have not sat down with the Smart Vestor Pro, I would do that.

Speaker 1 You can go to ramseysolutions.com and find one in your area because I want to be able to see all of your numbers, everything that you have in retirement, including this house and what's going to be the best bet to get you in a place.

Speaker 1 But again, it's lifestyle, it's return on the market and inflation that goes up every year is kind of determining factors. So thanks for the call.
Thanks to everyone in the booth, John.

Speaker 1 Thanks for a great hour. This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships.

Speaker 1 I am Rachel Cruz, hosting this hour with my good friends and best-selling author, excuse me, Dr. John DeLoma.

Speaker 2 Hey, puberty gets us all eventually, Rachel.

Speaker 1 I needed some water.

Speaker 2 Hey, can we talk about what we were just talking about? Are we allowed to?

Speaker 1 Let's just say that you can call us at 888-825-5225.

Speaker 1 And we'll take your calls on life, money, and all of it. Go.
What were we talking about?

Speaker 1 That we're all going to be okay. That's all I'm going to do.

Speaker 2 James, I don't want to get you canceled.

Speaker 1 No, we're not going to cancel anybody.

Speaker 2 Here's the thing.

Speaker 1 There's just a lot of drama in our world today. And we just want everyone to take a deep breath and say, we're all going to be okay.

Speaker 2 We are all going to be okay.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah, we were just talking off air. Like, there's this, this,

Speaker 2 no matter where you go. I know James is, he's got his hand on the dump button.

Speaker 2 There's this idea that if either one of these candidates, it's the end of the world either way.

Speaker 2 And I guess

Speaker 2 I call me crazy.

Speaker 2 I just, like, we were talking, you and I travel a lot. We're all over the place.
I was just in rural Pennsylvania, and then I spent the evening in Pittsburgh.

Speaker 2 I just have more faith in the American people. Yes.
I just have faith in people showing up for each other because I keep seeing it over and over and over and over again. And I see it.

Speaker 2 I have the, not the fortune, the good fortune, but the honor of sitting with people. when loved ones die, when the wildest things happen.

Speaker 2 And the number of people who show up, and they show up from work and they show up from church and they show up from neighborhoods and they show up all over the place. And I, again, maybe I'm crazy.

Speaker 2 I, I just don't believe that a single person

Speaker 2 is going to take the whole thing down. I believe in the American people.
I just do. And if you're a person of faith, you know how this whole thing ends.

Speaker 2 And so you should be the least worried about the drama. And it just, it's this,

Speaker 2 I came back with a totally, it was, it was, I'm glad I went away. I got on an airplane at 4 a.m.
this morning.

Speaker 2 I got up at 4 a.m. and I caught an early flight to get back.

Speaker 2 I'm glad I was out because it was just one of those reminders that people are good and they show up for each other and there's idiots everywhere and there's tad people. I know that I'm not naive.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 it's the small percentages on anything in life that get the loudest voice. And we just want all of you to know there's just good people in America and we're going to be able to do that.

Speaker 2 Take care of your household. Take care of your household.
We're going to be okay. We are.
Take care of your household.

Speaker 1 Okay. Up next, we're going to Ontario, Canada with, oh, gosh, I don't want to mispronounce it.

Speaker 2 Shaqib, what's up? Shaqib?

Speaker 1 I don't want to mispronounce your name.

Speaker 2 Rachel's not good at reading either, brother. What's up, dude?

Speaker 3 Hey,

Speaker 3 how are you guys doing?

Speaker 1 We're doing great. Welcome to the show.
How can we help?

Speaker 3 So, what happened is me and my wife got involved in investing online into crypto.

Speaker 2 Oh, no. How much did you lose money?

Speaker 3 Personally, we lost

Speaker 3 around 80K.

Speaker 3 Like, we learned about about $50 some odd dollars in debt,

Speaker 3 my wife did numbers about $58,000 in debt. My dad helped me, my father-in-law helped me to sell my car.

Speaker 3 What happened is when it came time to withdraw the Ethereum,

Speaker 3 these people started saying, oh, you know, you have to pay these fees. It's a first-time withdrawal.
And I was like, okay, I'll pay fees. Paid it.
And then it was another story. Paid that.

Speaker 3 And then what ended up happening is that when I was close to getting my withdrawal, they sent me some email from the IRS. And I was like, okay.

Speaker 3 And I looked at the email and it came from an IRS Gmail account. And I was like, all right, that's obviously messed up.
So I contacted the real IRS. IRS said that, you know, this is a scam.

Speaker 1 The whole thing was a scam.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I'm so sorry.

Speaker 1 I'm so sorry.

Speaker 2 Oh,

Speaker 1 man.

Speaker 2 So when you're 80K in the hole, if you put 80K, did you borrow $80,000 from various places to put towards crypto and now you have to pay that back? Where's this 80,000 lost?

Speaker 3 So my dad gave me about 20. My father-in-law gave me about 10.

Speaker 3 My wife took out 25K on her line of credit. She took out five on her credit card.
She got a 6K loan.

Speaker 3 I took 14 from a MoneyMart loan, which ended up being a payday thing, but I didn't care because when I was thinking about my crypto, I was like, okay, when I get my crypto, I'll pay that back.

Speaker 3 And then I took a 5K loan on my credit card.

Speaker 2 So, I mean, oh man. So you've got a lot of, you've got some credit cards and some personal loans to pay back, but you also have a lot of shame, right?

Speaker 2 Like you got to look your father and your father-in-law in the eye and say, I lost your money and I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean, my dad's honestly awesome he like when i told him about it like i told him like you know dad i this is what happened and he told me he's like honestly don't worry these things happen in life he's like i'm still here he's like i'm still gonna help you it's a good man it's it's kind of

Speaker 1 um how much how much do you and your wife make a year

Speaker 3 uh i'm about 60 and my wife is about the same Okay, is that before tax?

Speaker 3 That's before tax. Okay.

Speaker 2 And Ontario takes about 85% of the time. Yeah,

Speaker 1 what do you bring home a year? Like a month?

Speaker 1 What hits your account? A month?

Speaker 3 A month I bring a little under four.

Speaker 3 My wife, right now, she's on maternity leave, but she's going back to work now because of the situation.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And she'll probably be bringing in around, if it's like a good month,

Speaker 3 maybe around like 36, 37.

Speaker 2 Okay. Okay.

Speaker 1 So it'll be around 7,000.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I mean,

Speaker 1 I wish I could wave a wand in this, you can go back in time and do things differently.

Speaker 1 And, you know, what we call around here, when we make mistakes that cost us money, you know, a lot of money, a small amount of money, but just when we do stupid things, we call it stupid tax.

Speaker 1 And I hate to say it, but I'm like, you got a big, you got a big stupid tax bill.

Speaker 1 And I think you kind of just, you, you have to, you know, understand like, oh my gosh, you know, you obviously do that what we did was was stupid, but then you want to start cleaning up this mess.

Speaker 1 And so do you guys have any other debt or is it just the crypto?

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 3 we have my wife has a car loan. So I think there's about like 22K left on that.
Okay. And then I have my student loans.
It's a little over 8,000.

Speaker 2 Okay. Okay.

Speaker 1 How much could she could she sell the car for?

Speaker 1 Have you Kelly blue booked it?

Speaker 3 How much did I sell my car for?

Speaker 1 No, how much could how much is hers worth?

Speaker 3 Oh,

Speaker 3 hers might be worth maybe 28.

Speaker 3 Oh, no, that's

Speaker 3 if I.

Speaker 2 Oh, shoot, you're breaking up. No, you could there.

Speaker 1 Okay, well, well, let me say this: if we get you back or not, but

Speaker 1 I would be selling the car today. I think $22,000 in the middle of this mess.
I mean, that puts you over $100,000 in debt completely. So that car, it's done.

Speaker 1 And if you have to take a small loan for the difference, I couldn't tell what

Speaker 2 I say was $28, which is $28,000. That makes you clear six.

Speaker 1 So then, so then go buy it, go buy a used car.

Speaker 1 And then I would start working this snowball effect, the smallest debt first. And I would throw your 8,000 and your student loans in there as well.
I mean, I would make a full list.

Speaker 1 And I think, you know,

Speaker 1 I don't know, there's kind of a silver lining. The fact that some of these are just kind of ankle biters, 5,000 here, 5,000, 6,000.
We talked to a guy last hour who had a bunch of credit card debt.

Speaker 1 Same kind of idea, not because of crypto,

Speaker 1 but he was able to knock it out. And I think that that motivation is going to help you guys knock off these small ones and keep that ball rolling.

Speaker 1 And then I would have a conversation with your father, which you did, and father-in-law, and just give them a timeline of, hey, here's where I think I'm going to pay it back.

Speaker 1 But out of dignity, even if your dad forgives it, there's a part of me that I would pay him back. And I would say, I took this money and messed up.

Speaker 2 And, you know, and I think that's, was dad or father-in-law investors, or did you borrow money from them? And I think that might be two different answers there.

Speaker 1 That's true. That's true.
Okay, this is The Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I am here with Dr.
John Deloney, and we have a special guest in the studio with us this segment.

Speaker 2 Hey, it's one of my heroes.

Speaker 1 One of the heroes.

Speaker 2 One of my heroes. Did you hear that?

Speaker 5 This is making my year, John.

Speaker 2 It is Dr. Arthur Brooks, professor of practice of public and nonprofit leadership at the Harvard Kennedy School.
I used to think I was smart, and then you spend 30 years.

Speaker 2 And you meet him, and you're like, yeah. Dr.
Brooks, and you're like, nah.

Speaker 5 You're playing a smart time. Hey, but listen,

Speaker 2 you wrote what I think is, if I was to take 10 books of the last 25 years, you wrote this masterpiece from strength to strength, and you recently wrote a new book with Oprah Winfrey, which is not a bad co-author.

Speaker 2 Not bad.

Speaker 2 Called Build the Life You Want, just an Amazing Voice Out in the World. You do something very unique.
You teach happiness. Yeah.
Science of happiness.

Speaker 2 The science of happiness, which is, God help us, we need it. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 5 The world, I mean, it's, you look at the data on the, you know, what's been going on in the United States and around the world, we've been ticking down in happiness since about 1990, as a matter of fact.

Speaker 5 It's free fallen.

Speaker 5 It's, you know, I dedicated my, the rest of my life to lifting people up and bringing them together in bonds of happiness and love using science as a scientist because that's what the world needs most.

Speaker 1 Okay, so I want to know from that scientific perspective, because you can have the motivational quotes, you can have the gratitude journal, right? All this stuff. But for real, in science,

Speaker 1 what have you found? Yeah. Because everything you've written about, but like, what are some of the things that you see that's just mind-blowing?

Speaker 1 Because it has to be where you actually see science and emotion all come together.

Speaker 5 Yeah, no, it's an incredible field. My mind is getting blown continuously.

Speaker 5 I write a column every Thursday in the Atlantic about the science of happiness, and I've done 204 columns, and I'm just getting started.

Speaker 2 There is so much about it.

Speaker 5 There's so much to write about it. But when I have, you know, if I get an elevator ride with somebody, they're like, what's the secret? I better have something to say.

Speaker 2 Here it is.

Speaker 5 The habits of the happiest people come down to four things. Faith, family, friends, and work serving others.

Speaker 2 And this is not influencer mumbo-jumbo.

Speaker 2 You're a Harvard scientist. This is based on.

Speaker 5 This is my behavioral science background the last 30 years since I got my PhD.

Speaker 2 Say it again. Faith,

Speaker 5 family, friendship, and meaningful work, which means that you're serving others. Okay.

Speaker 2 That's what it is.

Speaker 1 Walk through some of those real quick. So faith, what does that mean? People of faith, is it because there is something higher than them? There's something bigger than them.

Speaker 1 It's not just about them on this earth.

Speaker 5 Yeah, and I'm not saying my faith. I'm a Christian.
It's literally the most important thing in my life.

Speaker 5 But I will say as a scientist, I won't say who's right, but I will say as a scientist, what you need from faith is something transcendent to you.

Speaker 5 What that means is Mother Nature will put you in the psychodrama of your life where you're the star and it's awful because Mother Nature doesn't care if you're happy.

Speaker 5 She wants you to focus on me, me, me, me, me all day long. You need to get little and make the universe big.

Speaker 2 Now, and faith is the single best way to do it.

Speaker 5 And the more you focus on it and practice it every day,

Speaker 5 it doesn't feel natural at first. But I'm telling you, it's the game changer.

Speaker 2 They're so good. That's number one.
Higher power. Yeah.

Speaker 5 They're number one. Number two is family.
And people define it differently in different ways.

Speaker 5 And John and I know the neurobiology of how oxyposin links you with your kin because we're a bunch of nerds, but it really comes down to this.

Speaker 5 If you're walking away from your family or you're letting anything besides abuse put a schism in your family, you're ruining your happiness and theirs too.

Speaker 5 People, one in six Americans is not talking to a family member today because of politics. It's insanity.

Speaker 1 So we're letting all these things completely drive a wedge

Speaker 2 into one of the four pillars of our happiness. For sure.

Speaker 5 Politicians want us to do that. The media wants us to do that.
Wow. Look, when you're walking away from your family, somebody's profiting and it's not you.
That's the bottom line.

Speaker 2 And no matter how much you think you're winning, it's coming at a cost. You're losing.
You're losing.

Speaker 5 You're losing because it's a bad proposition. You're basically,

Speaker 5 it's the stuff that you guys talk about, but in the ledger of happiness, what it comes down to, bad investment. Third is friendship.

Speaker 5 Now, we're at the lowest point in friendship that we've seen since we've been keeping records. Loneliness is higher than it's ever been in the United States, but we're around people all the time.

Speaker 2 What's the deal?

Speaker 5 And the answer is that we're mediating our relationships with electronics. This is a problem.
Social media relationships are not real relationships.

Speaker 5 Now, a lot of people, I deal with a lot of people who are really, really successful, and they say, I'm so lonely, even though

Speaker 5 I'm with people all day long. And I say, well, that's a problem.

Speaker 5 You don't have any real friends. You just have deal friends.

Speaker 5 And everybody knows the difference between real and deal. But with young people, it's real and virtual.

Speaker 5 So social media won't get it done. It just won't.
If it's going through a screen, you're not going to get the brain chemistry that you need.

Speaker 5 And if you want to know whether or not you've got enough of this going on, if you're finding that you're feeling lonely despite having a lot of conversations with people, then you're doing the conversations wrong.

Speaker 1 I was going to say, because the content of the friendship is what's key there, right? The vulnerability, the honesty, being known at a deep level.

Speaker 5 And also the contact, the method of contact, eye contact. Of that, too.

Speaker 1 So the in-person. Yeah.
Okay, so tell me this. I'm going to.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And there's work.
I'm going to tell on myself.

Speaker 1 I'm going to tell on myself real quick because I'm curious what you think about this. So Marco Polo is an app.

Speaker 1 It's a video app. And so there's me and three girlfriends, and we keep up.
I mean, almost every day, like when I come home from work, they'll kind of chime in because we're all over. Right.

Speaker 1 We're not all in the same city. Can we have that same connection if our conversations are good and we're knowing what's going on and we're checking in and asking questions and all of it?

Speaker 1 I mean, I know it's not as fruitful as like a back-to-back person.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 tell me about that. Yeah, I'm being selfish.

Speaker 5 Here's what's going on in your brain. Okay.
So you have

Speaker 5 a neuropeptide, a hormone in your brain that's intensely pleasurable called oxytocin.

Speaker 5 The biggest amount that you get is when you lay eyes on your newborn infant. And it's like the 4th of July inside your head.

Speaker 2 Totally.

Speaker 5 Now, we have this because we're supposed to be linked to our people and they're supposed to be linked to us. So when you're lonely, you won't be able to sleep.

Speaker 5 You won't, it's like things are messed up. You feel out of sorts.
You're feeling restless all the time. The reason is because you have a deficit of oxytocin and the monkey's on your back.

Speaker 5 It's like you're an addict and can't get what you want is the way that that works. Okay, so all of these mediated ways to deal with people.
Look, we have a Pleistocene brain. We have caveman brain.

Speaker 5 I mean, we have not evolved our brains over 250,000 years. We're made to be connected to our kin because we're built, we're a kin-based hierarchical tropical species.
That's what homo sapiens is.

Speaker 5 Right now, we can, we can, we can, you know, there are all sorts of ways that we can change that, like invent coats so we don't have to live in tropical places.

Speaker 2 Right, right.

Speaker 2 Still kin-based. So interesting.

Speaker 5 And we link to each other neurobiologically through this hormone. So in-person, eye contact, and touch, that's best.
Below that is anything that gets you closer to that particular experience.

Speaker 5 Zoom is terrible. Zoom is terrible.

Speaker 2 Zoom is no idea. It's like Twinkies, right?

Speaker 5 Zoom is like getting, well, actually, the worst is social media because they're not even there. So Zoom is like getting all of your meals through fast food.
It's the junk food of social life.

Speaker 5 You'll become obese and malnourished simultaneously.

Speaker 2 Okay, so can I ask one question? Yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 2 This has been haunting me, and you and I were talking about this earlier.

Speaker 2 There is data on the psychology of debt. Yes.
Dave has been talking about this for 30 years. The borrowed slave to the lender.
That's from scripture. But there is now

Speaker 2 like there's data that suggests

Speaker 5 we know how money and happiness are related.

Speaker 2 Okay, we got like a minute to get to it.

Speaker 5 Grandma says that money doesn't bring happiness. She's right.
But money at low levels can eliminate sources of unhappiness unless you spend the money wrong. There's five ways to spend your money.

Speaker 5 Buy stuff. Buy experiences with the people you love.
Buy time and spend it with the people that you love. Give it away and save it.

Speaker 5 It turns out the one one thing that your neurobiology wants you to do, which is go buy stuff, is the one thing that doesn't buy happiness.

Speaker 2 Wow. The other four will.

Speaker 5 Now, it depends on where you are. If you're actually at the bottom and you're trying to make your way,

Speaker 5 the best way that you can actually bring happiness to your life is save your money because you're making progress.

Speaker 5 There's a ton of psychology behind this. And by the way, going into debt, especially for consumer things, will reliably make you miserable.

Speaker 2 That's not just Dave having fun being able.

Speaker 5 This is happiness science, my friends.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, I know.

Speaker 5 It's changed my life and it's helped me to give better advice to people at all different stations in life and different economic circumstances. Because I can say this to people.

Speaker 5 I can say, look, I got the data on this. And by the way, if you're really, really rich, God bless you.
That's wonderful. I'm so happy for you under the circumstances.

Speaker 5 But that means you have to still spend your money the right way. Getting a fifth Ferrari is not the right thing to do.

Speaker 2 Experiences with people that you love.

Speaker 5 Philanthropy, these are the ways for you to buy your happiness. Don't buy like

Speaker 2 you're not going to

Speaker 2 say that. You can say that.

Speaker 5 You're not going to be on your deathbed saying, I wish I'd bought more crap. That's right.

Speaker 2 But you're going to say, I wish I'd taken that fishing trip with my buddies.

Speaker 5 I wish I had actually spent more time with the people that I love and I wish I'd supported the causes about which I'm passionate.

Speaker 1 So good.

Speaker 2 I'm like, one of my absolute heroes, Dr. Arthur Brooks.

Speaker 1 Yes, you guys, check out his book, Build the Life You Want. Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 I wish we had like the whole hour with you. So thank you.
Thank you so much. Thanks.
This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 We do the Ramsey Show live every day from 1 to 4 Central Time, right outside of Nashville, Tennessee, and Franklin, Tennessee, at our headquarters. And we have a studio on the glass in an

Speaker 1 area for people to come and watch. So we have some audience that comes and hangs out with us and gets coffee and tea and cookies and all the things for free.

Speaker 1 And also in the lobby, we have our debt-free stage. And right now, Francisco and Brasheet

Speaker 1 are standing on it for good reason. Welcome, you guys.

Speaker 1 Thank you. All right.
So you're debt-free.

Speaker 2 Yes, we are.

Speaker 1 Incredible. Okay, where are you guys from?

Speaker 6 North of Austin at Fort Hood.

Speaker 2 Okay. Yeah, I got family in there in Temple.
Oh, nice. Yeah, right there.

Speaker 2 It's a beautiful part of the country, man. Yes, it is.
Amazing.

Speaker 1 Okay, how much have you guys paid off?

Speaker 6 $105,000.

Speaker 3 Oh!

Speaker 1 And how long did that take you?

Speaker 6 13 months.

Speaker 1 13 months? Making what kind of money?

Speaker 6 So we started out with $84,000, and then by the end of it, we were at $96,000.

Speaker 2 Oh, my gosh. Incredible.

Speaker 1 Incredible. Do y'all sell some stuff?

Speaker 6 Oh, yeah. She sold almost like half the house.

Speaker 2 The kids were definitely next.

Speaker 1 She's like, it's all going.

Speaker 2 It's all going. It's all going.

Speaker 1 Okay, you guys. So what was the 105,000?

Speaker 4 So it was 19 credit cards, two car loans, and then two personal loans.

Speaker 2 Oh, God. Yeah.
Just 19.

Speaker 4 If there was a credit card for Starbucks, I would have it.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So were you the spender or are you the spender?

Speaker 4 I am the spender. Yes.

Speaker 2 Yes. Yes.

Speaker 6 Well, she can't take most of the credit. I would also go like to the little shop ed on base and like buy an energy drink or a slice of pizza just about every day.

Speaker 2 Swipe, swipe, yes, swipe. Let's go and enjoy it.

Speaker 1 Okay, so what happened? 13 months ago that that created this shift, this change to get out of $105,000 in debt?

Speaker 4 So I would like to start off by saying that

Speaker 4 I did 12 years in service. So I was medically retired, 100% disabled.
And he's still serving.

Speaker 4 And with two paychecks, we were still not having any money at all.

Speaker 4 And then with four kids,

Speaker 4 we would have like $17 left, each paycheck.

Speaker 4 And it was kind of like, it was kind of getting out of hand. You know, we couldn't buy our cat food.
We couldn't, we could buy stuff, but with credit cards or uh after pay yeah so um

Speaker 2 we kind of

Speaker 6 kind of got upset you know like what are we doing well the the the straw that broke the camel's back was i wanted a little japanese k-truck and uh she was like how are we gonna pay for it i was like we could just take out another loan like we're good with our payments like what's what's another hundred dollars right yeah um and then that's what broke the camel's back and then uh my sister-in-law actually did dave ramsey in 2016 and uh she was supposed to come over to our house and like have a relaxing weekend.

Speaker 6 But we were like, we need help with this.

Speaker 2 Oh, no, that's it. She boot camped, y'all.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 And, you know, she's always like talked about it, and we always talked about money. You know, we were very open, but we were just not ready because everything was fine.
We were making our payments.

Speaker 4 You know, $17 at the end of the day is fine because we have credit cards.

Speaker 4 So she came over, she sat down and like

Speaker 2 boot camp

Speaker 4 everything.

Speaker 1 You know, like, was she so excited? Was she like, I've been waiting for this day for you guys to be able to come and see the light?

Speaker 4 I don't know. She was excited.

Speaker 4 But she was so helpful. And, like, everything we just every step, like, she set us down and she created like our budget.
She created everything. Like, and questions.

Speaker 4 And when we were hesitant, she was there for us. Yeah.
So that definitely helped us out a lot.

Speaker 1 Incredible, you guys. Okay, so you upped your income.
You sold half the house, you said.

Speaker 1 Did you guys do anything else? Any extra side hustles or did you cut expenses? Like, what was some of the things that you did that really helped?

Speaker 4 So,

Speaker 4 we, with the help of my sister, we set a very realistic budget where, you know, I had money for my nails. I'm like, I don't need money for my nails.
She's like, okay, you need to be realistic.

Speaker 4 Like, hobbies. I'm like, I don't need hobbies.
Eating out, we don't need McDonald's. You know, she's like, you're going to fail if you don't keep it real.
That's good. So, the budget helped.

Speaker 4 Francisco made a sacrifice to deploy so he can get that tax-free income. So, I was left at home with our beautiful children.

Speaker 4 But it was a sacrifice we made for our family.

Speaker 2 Wow.

Speaker 1 How long were you deployed for?

Speaker 6 Just three months.

Speaker 2 It wasn't too long. That's long.
I mean, that's a lot. Yeah.
That's a lot. It's three months, man.
I was like, that's it.

Speaker 4 I sell it to three months.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you did.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 4 And while he was gone, I was going, I was, I'm a full-time college student. While he was gone, I was like, what can I do to, you know, make more money?

Speaker 4 So I was selling the entire house even if it's a dollar it was a dollar towards debt like every dollar counts and then um I kind of started picking up pet waste and cutting people's grass gosh so I would like drop off the kids at school and then put the baby on my back and just

Speaker 4 then you would go and mow lawns mow lawns and pick up pet waste and we dude you are ruining

Speaker 2 70 to 100 million people's lives right now because they're sitting out going, I don't have time to do that. I can't do that.

Speaker 6 So I actually have a pretty, really cool picture of her. She has our daughter baby wearing her in front while breastfeeding her while weed eating.

Speaker 2 While not mowing. There was no excuses.
Yeah, there was no excuse for us not to get out of date. You're the most gangster person I've ever met in my life.
She is.

Speaker 1 And she has two sleeves of tattoos, but for those of you that can't see, like, she really is. She really is.

Speaker 2 Like, Francisco, you just got to know, like, if you ever cross her, they're not going to find your body.

Speaker 6 Yeah. She listens to Crime Junkies too.

Speaker 2 I know she did. I know.
I can feel it.

Speaker 4 um so we were very i'm very passionate when i get going into things and i like to think you know

Speaker 4 i was like honey when you come home you have like a day and a half to get used to the the new time zone and then i need you to go molons you know so i will say that uh we never had any

Speaker 4 well we're shortly going to celebrate our 11 years of being married um and we never argued about money until we were arguing about the speed that we wanted to go. And I was like, everything's on fire.

Speaker 4 We need to pay this off now. Like, we can't eat.
He's like, honey, we were eating before. Like, what are you worried about?

Speaker 4 So,

Speaker 4 you know,

Speaker 4 we would fight a lot in the beginning.

Speaker 2 Well, not because it was like arguing.

Speaker 4 We would argue because of, like, you know, I want it to be so intense. And he's like, just sit down, dude.

Speaker 2 Like, it's fine.

Speaker 4 You know, and I'm like, you have a new baby.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 4 So,

Speaker 4 you know, we prayed and we just kept on

Speaker 4 communication.

Speaker 1 Well, and the beautiful thing is, you know, it's 13 months, right?

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And this isn't 13 years of your life living like this. It was 13 months and you did it and you got out, right? You got out of debt.

Speaker 1 So I want to know how does it feel today being right here with us, completely debt-free versus where you were 13, 14, 15 months ago?

Speaker 1 What's the difference?

Speaker 6 It's unreal, honestly.

Speaker 6 There's like really no stress at all, whatsoever. Cause I mean, now what do we have? Just a phone bill, internet, like that's it.

Speaker 4 Like, what do we do with all this money?

Speaker 6 Yeah, we have so much, like, we don't know what to do with it now. So, we're actually going to go talk to a Ramsey investor next Tuesday.

Speaker 6 So, yeah, like, we're going to start putting our money to work for us.

Speaker 1 So, good. Are y'all going to do anything fun with all the kids and everything?

Speaker 4 So, unfortunately, um, he's leaving for Japan for three years in

Speaker 4 Thursday.

Speaker 2 So, we're just trying to stack money up.

Speaker 4 So, in case we get denied to go as a family, I can just pack our stuff, pack the kids, and get on a plane.

Speaker 1 Because y'all may be going, yeah, y'all may be, y'all have a big transition coming up.

Speaker 4 Yeah, so we're saving for that.

Speaker 1 This is the least of your,

Speaker 2 I feel like, of your life.

Speaker 1 You're going to Japan for three years. Is that for job? Military?

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yes, ma'am.
But can we say this? Y'all put in the work for 13 months, and now you can literally pack up and move across the world to stay together as a family if you want to.

Speaker 2 You can do whatever you want because nobody owns your family anymore. Yes, literally.

Speaker 4 So they can medically, they can say, No, we don't have the needs for your family. And I could be like, Okay, well, I'm just going to go to Japan and

Speaker 2 all that. Oh, my gosh.
Like, I'm not worried about money. Yeah, yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1 So, guys, y'all, y'all are incredible. I don't want to, I want to make sure we get your debt-free screen because you have all your kids.
So, bring them up.

Speaker 2 What are the ages and names?

Speaker 4 So, we have Leah, who's nine, we have Ethan, who's eight, Sebastian, who's five, Victoria's two, and this is my mentor, my sensei, my sister, Helen.

Speaker 1 Oh, you guys, you're incredible. All right, we have Francisco and Brashith from

Speaker 1 Fort Hood, Texas. There you go.

Speaker 1 That paid off $105,000 in 13 months, making $84,000 to $96,000. You guys count it down.
Let's hear your debt-free scream.

Speaker 2 Three, two, one.

Speaker 2 We're debt-free.

Speaker 4 Woo!

Speaker 4 Amazing.

Speaker 2 Come on.

Speaker 1 That is how it's done.

Speaker 2 No more excuses, America. Sorry, they ruined it for you.
No more excuses. If you want to, you can.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. We are taking your calls at 888-825-5225.

Speaker 1 Some incredible, incredible people, I feel like, this hour from Dr.

Speaker 1 I mean, Dr.

Speaker 2 Brooks, one of my heroes.

Speaker 1 To the most amazing debt-free scream of a blady mowing lawns with a baby carrier in front of her.

Speaker 1 I mean, y'all i mean just amazing this is the this is the hope that we have in america right i'm telling you i think we're gonna be all right it is so great all right let's go to the calls we got jay in nashville hey jay welcome to the show

Speaker 1 hey how you guys doing we are doing great how can we help

Speaker 3 yes i want to tell you all first off thank you i listen to y'all First thing in the morning, I get up early, try to get my work out in, and listen to y'all while I'm working out.

Speaker 2 Oh, I'm so glad.

Speaker 2 That's awesome. Thank you.

Speaker 3 It helped me to kind of get started.

Speaker 2 Hey, Jay, do me a favor. Jay, do me a favor.
Can you talk directly into the phone? I'm kind of deaf.

Speaker 3 Yes, I'll speak up a little bit louder.

Speaker 2 Perfect.

Speaker 2 Perfect, perfect. There you go.

Speaker 3 Yes, yes. So I will give y'all kind of a quick rundown, and I'll try to make this fast.

Speaker 3 I got married about seven years ago, and when my wife moved to where I was, we kind of had a little bit of misfortune.

Speaker 3 I knew she makes more money than me, but when she moved, she didn't get a job that maintained that

Speaker 3 income. And she took a couple losses.
And during that time, I was covering everything. And also, I went from a bachelor with my son to

Speaker 3 a married man with a father. All of a sudden, I got a family of six.
And so when

Speaker 3 she lost a job and, you know, maybe switched to a job that wasn't making as much, I still was trying to cover everything and make sure my family didn't submit.

Speaker 3 So I kind of made some bad choices, some desperate choices, and it put me in a bad position to where

Speaker 3 we got to arguing over money.

Speaker 3 My family members have done Dave Ramsey, and I was trying to get into that as well. But when you're doing Dave Ramsey and your significant others not doing it, it still makes it for a battle.
And

Speaker 3 I was just going while I'm trying to, I'm already a cheap and pivotal guy. Like I'm cheap, cheap, cheap.
But when I'm trying to be cheap, cheap, cheap and do this, and then I have

Speaker 2 hard.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So, how can we help today, Jay?

Speaker 1 What's the big problem? I mean, besides, obviously, if you guys aren't working out together, but you trying to do this plan to get out of debt?

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 3 I'm doing the plan myself because actually I'm going through a separation. And

Speaker 2 I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 Oh, it's no problem. So I'm trying to handle all my bad choices that I made in by myself.
And I'm okay with that.

Speaker 3 But the thing is, I only make before taxes, I think it's like four or five. By the time all my deductions come out, I'm barely seeing 18.

Speaker 3 I got 1,150 in deals,

Speaker 3 just rent, electric, water, phone. I'll have to add in groceries.

Speaker 2 What do you do for living or checking?

Speaker 3 I'm in the education. I teach.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 And how much are you making a year, did you say?

Speaker 3 Before taxes, before all my deductions and insurance stuff comes out, I make like my check stuff today says $4,592.

Speaker 3 By the time it hits my account, it's $1,700.

Speaker 2 What are they deducting?

Speaker 1 Yeah, well, what's going on? Did you get a big tax refund back in April?

Speaker 3 No, no, no, I do not. Let me tell you, I'm looking at

Speaker 3 the checks stuff right now, and

Speaker 3 I have

Speaker 3 oh man, I have insurance coming out. I have Medicare coming out.
I have Social Security coming out. I have retirement coming out.
I have a business plan coming out. And

Speaker 3 on some of these business, on the insurance, it's for me and my daughter.

Speaker 3 It's for just me and my daughter. And then I also have

Speaker 3 a disability, a life insurance policy, and a life insurance policy on my, you know, nothing major on my baby. We just get some happiness.
I can still bury it.

Speaker 3 And, of course, I'm not wishing that on anything. But

Speaker 2 hold on.

Speaker 2 It feels like

Speaker 3 266, 256, 167, 284, 207.

Speaker 2 Okay, okay. So, what I want you to do

Speaker 1 is add for the insurance. Is this a whole life policy or a term life?

Speaker 2 The life insurance. Yeah, I'm going to have to go back and read.
Okay, because if it's whole life, it's going to be pretty expensive.

Speaker 1 So, how much are you paying in life insurance a month?

Speaker 3 Let me see. One is

Speaker 3 a month one for the baby for the baby girl it is $27

Speaker 3 for

Speaker 3 mine. I want to say it is let me see here retirement if

Speaker 3 I want to

Speaker 2 I can't tell

Speaker 1 America yeah okay so so what I want you to do Jay so a couple of things number one she does not need life insurance so you got sold some Gerber whole life kid whole life the reason reason you need life insurance is if someone is dependent upon your income.

Speaker 1 And as to a T dollar wise of you needing every single penny, we need to cut out things that are going out that you just don't need necessarily, right?

Speaker 1 So that $27 for her, I would drop that policy today.

Speaker 1 If you have a whole life policy, I want you to look into that because it can be very expensive month to month and see if you can switch to a term life, which is going to be probably a fourth of the price.

Speaker 1 So that's possibly some savings there. Stop retirement.
I want you to pause retirement, Jay. That'll be money back in.
Even things like vision insurance, like even our company, we don't cover it.

Speaker 1 And you could pay out of pocket if you needed to, unless you guys have some kind of situation that you absolutely needed it. But that's money being saved for right now.

Speaker 1 So those are a couple of places paycheck-wise that I want you to look at. And then I also do want to make sure that you're not getting more taken out.

Speaker 1 That if you're getting a big refund, that there's some withholdings there that possibly you could adjust.

Speaker 1 So again, it's digging into some of those numbers and looking because going from $4,500 a month to $1,700 a month.

Speaker 2 Yeah, there's something,

Speaker 1 something's off there.

Speaker 2 And they may not let you not do retirement. Sometimes teacher programs don't let you opt out.

Speaker 2 If you're in the

Speaker 2 if it's like a pension kind of thing. Yeah, if you're in Tennessee pension.

Speaker 3 I'm sorry. I'm so sorry.
Go ahead.

Speaker 2 Yeah, if you're in the if you're in some sort of teacher retirement program, they may not let you opt out. Here's what's your all-in total for how much you owe?

Speaker 3 Student loans, all in total, 224,

Speaker 3 see, around about, I'm getting it right under 100,000.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 So here's the. Student loans, credit card, and some loans.
This is me talking to you as a former educator. I was a high school teacher.
I've taught elementary school. I taught college.

Speaker 2 I love teachers and I'm in your world. Okay.

Speaker 2 And you're in my neighborhood. Like we live in the same town.
Okay.

Speaker 2 What you have is not a passion problem. You don't have a heart problem.
You have a a math problem.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 you don't make enough money doing the thing that you love that I probably believe you were put on earth to do, which is to serve your local community and love those students and teach them.

Speaker 2 And I think you're either going to have to do one of two things, do that job and immediately get off of work and

Speaker 2 go get a second job. And say for the next 18 months, I'm going to not see my daughter very much, which breaks my heart for you, but it might be where you're at.

Speaker 2 Or you're going to have to really start looking at getting another job where you can double or triple your income. And luckily, you're in Nashville where there's a lot of people needing work,

Speaker 2 but that means you're going to have to walk away from the job that you hold dear.

Speaker 2 But you got a math problem and you can't get ahead making, you couldn't get ahead making $4,000 much, much less only bringing home. $1,700 a month.

Speaker 1 Because at that point, you can't even eat.

Speaker 1 He's like after my bill, after my rent and everything.

Speaker 1 So right yeah you you do have to make a drastic change which again changing jobs and changing housing i think are the two biggest changes people make massive that it's hard right so like so we're asking you to do one of those so it's we don't say that lightly and john doesn't say that lightly um but to his point like you have to be able to to support your daughter and you want to be able to get out of this so whether that yeah is changing your full-time career possibly or just adding a second job yep and jay uh hang on the line here i'm gonna give you a free coaching session with one of our ramsey financial coaches and they're here in nashville to here in franklin right down the street from nashville um but they can go through some of these budget numbers because at some somewhere down the line you're getting taken to the cleaners you're taking way too much out of your check um yeah i have somebody but i want someone to sit down with you in your budget personal and we'll pay for it so hang on the line here absolutely all right we believe in you brother absolutely if you guys are listening on radio stick around the next hour is coming up but if you are on podcasts or youtube go over to the Ramsey Network app.

Speaker 1 You can download it for free to get the last hour there. So just go to the Apple Store, Google Play, wherever you have your apps and search the Ramsey Network app.
Thanks, everyone in the booth.

Speaker 1 Thanks, John, for a great hour. This is the Ramsey Show.