Quit Letting Your Money Boss You Around and Tell IT What To Do!

Speaker 1 From the Ramsey Network, it's the Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw.
Next to me is Dr. John Deloney, and we're taking your calls.
We're talking about your life and your money.

Speaker 1 We're helping people build wealth, do work that they love, and have amazing relationships. This is a live show.
You can give us a call if you want to call in.

Speaker 1 The number is 888-825-5225, and we'll try and get you on the line and try to hook you up with the advice that you need. All right, John, you ready to do this? Let's go.

Speaker 1 Let's go straight to the phone lines. We've got Jody in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
What up, Jodi?

Speaker 2 Hi, how are you?

Speaker 1 Doing great.

Speaker 3 How can we help today?

Speaker 2 Hi. Well, I'm, oh, I can't believe I called in and doing this.
But, anyways,

Speaker 2 I am in a very emotionally abusive, emotionally and financially abusive relationship um i've been with him for 18 years we have a nine-year-old daughter and i need out

Speaker 2 and i

Speaker 2 i i start trying to figure out plans and i like we'll research this and research that and then i'll put this in order and then i and um i become this

Speaker 2 paralyzed whirlpool of this is i you know what i'm saying like i could probably help other people but my brain and i'm just emotionally exhausted too so i don't think that helps.

Speaker 3 What happened? What happened, Jodi? Something happened that said, you said this is enough. What happened?

Speaker 2 You know, I think I have a blood clotting disorder, and I had a blood clot at the beginning of the summer, a deep vein blood clot in my leg. And they are incredibly painful.

Speaker 2 Also, potentially life-threatening. I've had a couple of ones.
I had one in my pelvis after my pregnancy that came close to damaging my heart. I had some in my lungs, things like that.

Speaker 2 So it's a really serious thing.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I am sitting on the recliner and he comes home from work and starts screaming at me to get off my lazy butt that I'm on his chair and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 2 And I mean, that's just one example. And I mean, my daughter and I are both staring at him.
And I said, I don't know why you think you can talk to me like this.

Speaker 2 And I mean,

Speaker 2 you know like it's a big deal my blood clot is a big deal

Speaker 2 and I just I've been done before and then things happened and I allowed my plans to become derailed and everything like that and so I do me a favor right now do me a favor right now Jodi uh-huh where is all of this in your body is it in your chest

Speaker 2 It is. Okay.

Speaker 3 Take your fist and put it in your chest right now.

Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

Speaker 3 Take a humongous deep breath real big.

Speaker 3 And then exhale it out.

Speaker 3 Drop your shoulders as low as you can go. Pull them down.
Okay.

Speaker 3 Okay. And here's why we're doing this exercise.

Speaker 3 This is what happens inside your mind, too.

Speaker 3 Yeah. When you start researching stuff, isn't it? It spins faster and faster and faster and faster.

Speaker 3 Yeah. And then it feels chaotic.
And then your daughter comes in and says, hey, can you help me with my lunch tomorrow? And then you're off to the next thing. And this thing never resolves itself.

Speaker 3 And it just spins faster and it gets heavier and heavier. Yes.

Speaker 3 The only way I've learned, and I'm like you, I get pretty emotional, got a heart, I don't have anything like what you're dealing with at home, but when I get emotional, I spin and I go faster and faster and faster.

Speaker 3 And the only way I have learned to be able to walk through those things is with other people.

Speaker 2 I have been gathering my friends and family. I've kind of explained where I'm at.

Speaker 3 But listen to me. You're doing a lot of, you're using other people and you're using your internet searches as Xanax.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 3 You need to find somebody.

Speaker 2 I want a practical plan.

Speaker 3 You need to sit with a lawyer that you are paying that you are on the clock with because that will force you to laser in and say, what do you want to do next?

Speaker 3 Otherwise, you just have a bunch of people that you talk to and talk to and talk to and talk to and talk to.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 you've got to have a gang. You've got to have people that will listen to you and that will sit with you and will show up with cash rules.

Speaker 3 But you need to have somebody who will say, here's what happens if you do A, here's what happens with B.

Speaker 3 And someone that will walk you through step by step, here is legally and practically what happens next.

Speaker 3 And there'll be financial ramifications. There will be custody ramifications.
There will be all sorts of ramifications.

Speaker 3 Yeah. But I want you to stop spinning and sit with somebody.

Speaker 3 And by the way,

Speaker 3 some attorneys aren't people of character and they'll take your money. They'll let you spin all day long and they'll just put you on the clock.

Speaker 3 Most of the ones I've ever met with care deeply about their clients and they will say, okay, if you're hiring me to go to war, let's go to war. Yeah.

Speaker 3 So I'm going to ask you, what's your next move?

Speaker 2 I will, well, lawyer, retainer. I have a friend who said that she would help me get the money.
I have no money. I have nothing in the middle of the money.

Speaker 3 Well, that was my next question.

Speaker 3 What does this mean for you? Because you've got to eat.

Speaker 2 Yes. And I met with an employment specialist I had gotten a therapist

Speaker 2 and a psychiatrist because I was oppressed and I was undiagnosed ADHD for many years and

Speaker 2 so you know and tell me about your job tell me about your job oh she's so awesome but but this is this is why I need to go this is taking its toll on her and as he was sitting there yelling at me I'm like I don't want her to think that no no I'm sorry tell me about your job

Speaker 3 not your child. Tell me about your job.
What are you going to do for money? Sorry. If you leave,

Speaker 3 how are you going to eat and where are you going to live?

Speaker 2 I told the employment specialist, we're meeting next week to help me with my resume.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I am

Speaker 2 my heart is in the nonprofit world. However, I told them that my first priority is to make enough money for me to be able to live on my own and support my daughter.
There you go.

Speaker 3 Have you ever done that before?

Speaker 2 Lived on my own, yes.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 Then you can can do it again as a student, yes.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 2 I know I can do this. That's the thing.
Like, I know that I can do this. I keep tripping myself up.
I know I'm worth more. And

Speaker 2 more than anything, and the reason I'm willing to accept help from my friends and family financially is that I owe my daughter more.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 part of the reason that I've been

Speaker 2 also kind of

Speaker 2 not putting it off is I know

Speaker 2 I know he's going to to make it so ugly, and I know he's going to drag her in it, but I tell myself he's already dragged her in it.

Speaker 2 And I've allowed it. And in

Speaker 2 leaving him, I think, I hope that that means I'm not dragging her in it. I'm dragging her out of it.
And if he continues to drag her in it, I will just have to do my best to.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 let's solve that problem when we get there. Let's do the next right thing in front of us.

Speaker 3 And Jade's going to walk you through the four walls, but these are the things I want you to put on a list I want you to sit down with a trusted friend or or

Speaker 3 a couple friend that you trust that you can walk through what this actually means because these have to be real numbers they can't be feelings and thoughts they have to be real numbers and I want you to sit with an attorney and if you need to leave and go stay with somebody because your home's not safe then do that right now like today physically I'm safe I am physically safe I really do believe that okay but not mentally okay yeah you know when you get when you make that leap and you you know walk out of this thing, the thing that you're going to have to focus on first is just making sure that you can pay for your shelter.

Speaker 1 Like you've got to find a place that you can live that you can afford. After that, it's utilities.
After that, it's food.

Speaker 1 After that, it's transportation because you need to be able to get to work and back. And so those four things, before you get off the line today, we're going to get you set up with every dollar

Speaker 1 and totally for free so that you can use that. You can start budgeting.
You can start looking at what your life is going to look like financially.

Speaker 1 I think that you making this choice, I know you said you were worried worried about dragging your daughter through it, but she's also going to see something really great of a woman who says, I'm not going to be treated like this.

Speaker 1 And I get to decide and she's going to take that and carry that with her. And it's going to mean a lot for her.
So, ooh, tough stuff. Good job, John.

Speaker 3 We're blessed.

Speaker 3 We're praying for you. This is all you're going to do.
Call us back anytime.

Speaker 1 You're listening to the Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw, joined by Dr.
John Deloney. Today, as we take your calls, you can give us a call.
Number is 888-825-5225.

Speaker 1 five two two five get in where you fit in.

Speaker 1 Hey guys, all the time we're talking about the steps and the changes that you need to make in order to change your money, your career, your mental health, even your relationships every single day, because we know none of it is happening by accident.

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Speaker 1 Natasha is in Kansas City, Missouri. What's going on, Natasha?

Speaker 2 Hi, guys. How are you?

Speaker 3 Good.

Speaker 1 What do you think about the band name Wacky Wavy?

Speaker 2 Oh, I don't know. I'm probably not the right person.

Speaker 3 That means we're onto something.

Speaker 2 I'm not a musician. I'm not a musician.
I don't know.

Speaker 3 Well, how can we help you today?

Speaker 2 Well, so I just wanted to I listen to the show all the time.

Speaker 2 Long time horse litter, first time caller.

Speaker 2 So my husband and I have several rental properties, and a couple years ago, we bought a property with the idea that his mom, who is in the midst of a divorce,

Speaker 2 could live in that house. And obviously, we didn't want to dictate anything for her, but she's been living there, and she, I think, would like to stay, which we're totally fine with.

Speaker 2 But she has approached us about maybe putting putting an addition on the house.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I think it's fine. I want, we desperately want her to be happy.
And, you know, we want it to be a blessing to her. But

Speaker 2 we've never had a business partner in any of our like rental properties. And so I feel a little bit weird with the idea of her paying for some portion, even though I know she's living in the house.

Speaker 2 So I just wanted to make sure, like, I'd love to just like give her the green line. We really would be tickled, honestly, if it's a blessing to her and she stays forever as far as we're concerned.

Speaker 2 But is there anything I'm not thinking of? Yeah. You know, that I should.

Speaker 1 I mean, listen, I love your heart on this. I think that you love your mother-in-law.
You want, you know, her to feel like the place is hers.

Speaker 1 It's not hers. It's yours.

Speaker 1 Is she paying you rent or do you let her live there rent-free?

Speaker 2 No, no, she's not paying us rent. I mean, we did.

Speaker 2 We vetted the property as a rental with the idea that if she didn't like it, we would rent it out. Because we do have other rental properties that's part of our portfolio.

Speaker 1 So, you're just using the other

Speaker 1 properties to float this one?

Speaker 3 Or is it paid for in cash?

Speaker 2 So, we will have this property paid off by the end of next year. And we have one other,

Speaker 2 we have a total left of mortgages between our three, between three of two are paid off. Great.
Five total properties.

Speaker 2 They'll all be paid off in the next probably three and a half years.

Speaker 1 So, then back to this idea of the addition on the house.

Speaker 1 I think because

Speaker 1 here's where I think. I think if you let her pay for this and something happens because no, you know, nobody knows what's around the corner, right?

Speaker 1 There's going to be some feeling that it's her house and I put this money into the addition and it just feels like it could get very messy very quickly.

Speaker 1 Even if you put it in writing, which if you decide to do this, definitely put it in writing, the amount that she's putting into it, what would happen if the house were to sell or if she were to move, how does she get her money back, that sort of thing.

Speaker 1 But more than that, you want to know what I would just do. It's your house.
If you want an addition on it, just put an addition on it.

Speaker 3 That's what I would do.

Speaker 2 That's what I was wondering. Should we just pay for it?

Speaker 3 I would.

Speaker 3 It's not worth your relationship with your mother-in-law. Because here's what's going to happen.

Speaker 3 By the way, what's this addition for?

Speaker 2 So it's a cute little starter house, but I think she'd like a house that has more room for her grandkids to be over. I mean, I really, and honestly, it's in a great neighborhood.

Speaker 2 We bought a little house with plenty of room. Like a lot of people in the area have done additions.
So I think there's plenty of upside financially to doing the addition.

Speaker 2 But I have like this little bit of angst, like, should we just pay for it?

Speaker 3 Yeah, because you're going to hire what she wants.

Speaker 3 You're going to pull out the back wall and you're going to find a ton of termite damage.

Speaker 2 Exactly. Nice or kitchen.
And she would like, she wants the washer dryer upstairs. So when she gets older, it's not an issue.

Speaker 2 I totally, yeah, it makes sense.

Speaker 3 What about just moving her to one of these other houses?

Speaker 1 I was going to ask that same thing.

Speaker 2 So the other properties that we have, we did offer to her initially

Speaker 2 when she was moving, and she wasn't keen.

Speaker 2 They're all stairs. They all have stairs.

Speaker 2 So this is the only, this one is a single family, nice little ranch.

Speaker 1 What's it going to cost to you?

Speaker 2 It's going to be a great neighborhood. To do the addition.
We haven't even looked, but I'm guessing,

Speaker 2 I would guess we wouldn't pay more than like $100,000.

Speaker 3 Do you have cash?

Speaker 2 It's a $200,000. Well, we won't do it if we don't have cash, but

Speaker 3 I love how you said that. You're like, listen.

Speaker 3 I would not take her money. I would keep this clean.
This is y'all's place.

Speaker 3 It's in our trust.

Speaker 2 And we're in a really good financial spot. I mean, we're worth several million dollars now.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you are.

Speaker 3 If y'all feel like you want to do this,

Speaker 3 I would pay for it and I would not take her money. And I would tell her, hey, thank you so much for offering, but I want you to,

Speaker 3 we want you to live to be 125 and so we want to make sure you can afford all the way down. And we've been blessed and we can do this.
It just keeps everything so clean.

Speaker 3 And it's not you I'm worried about. It's not your husband.
It's not her. It's

Speaker 3 your brother-in-law who has a gambling debt that you don't know about that turns to sue.

Speaker 3 We would not have a job if every family acted like you and your husband and your mother-in-law.

Speaker 3 It always goes sideways.

Speaker 3 And if every contractor was honest and no trees fell through houses, and so I would just keep the lines as clean as possible or deed her the house give it to her and say this is Merry Christmas and just make sure you put it in your will that we get it back and do that give it away to her.

Speaker 3 That's pretty cool.

Speaker 3 But I

Speaker 3 keep the lines as clean as possible.

Speaker 2 Okay. Yeah.
Yeah. That's why we've not, like I said, we've never had business partners or anything for that reason.

Speaker 3 It's like we're the entity. We're the NGOs.

Speaker 1 Even when people call and they've done all the paperwork and they've written it the right way, there's still something that causes a saltiness or an animosity.

Speaker 1 And that's why I said before, even if you were to do all of that, it still doesn't make up for the feelings that ensue after the fact. And so I'm with John.

Speaker 1 I would either pay and have this edition put on with your own $100,000 cash, or I would deeter the house and say, hey, really, this is our gift to you.

Speaker 1 Whatever changes you want to make, it's yours free and clear. I like that idea.
You guys have done really, really well.

Speaker 1 And this is the stuff that we talk about. You know, you live like no one else.
Later, you're able to give like no one else. And this is giving on a whole nother level.

Speaker 3 Yeah. And I just don't want to see next Christmas.
There's a lot of tension because she's doing something to your house with money. She doesn't have

Speaker 3 to just don't. Keep the lines clean because you love each other.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I like that. This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 What's going on? You're listening to The Ramsey Show. My name is Jade Warshaw.
Next to me is Dr. John Deloney.
If you don't know, now you know. You guys need to know about Dr.
John.

Speaker 1 John, tell them about yourself.

Speaker 3 My name's John.

Speaker 1 My friends call me John.

Speaker 3 Yeah, dude. My friends call me John.
My wife calls me John.

Speaker 1 Does anybody call you Johnny?

Speaker 3 My kids call me old man. No.
I wanted to be Johnny because a karate kid, but it never stuck.

Speaker 1 Is it short for Jonathan?

Speaker 3 Nope.

Speaker 3 I think they were going to call me Jonathan and my mom said when I was born, I just looked like a John.

Speaker 3 Just John.

Speaker 1 She called it.

Speaker 3 All right. I like it.
All right. She called it.

Speaker 1 Well, he's the guy that's going to take the calls about your relationships. If you're dealing with things going on in that side of things, mental health world, wellness world, he's got you covered.

Speaker 1 I'm here for the money side. So if you want to call us, the number is 888-825-5225.
If you didn't know, it's a live show, and so we'll get you on. Let's go to the phone lines.

Speaker 1 Oh, before we do, let me just say,

Speaker 1 John and I have jobs because of you guys.

Speaker 1 So we're really grateful that you listen to the show, that you listen on podcasts, that you log in on YouTube, that you pull it up, you know, you turn the radio dial, some of you, and you listen to us on the radio.

Speaker 1 And we're really grateful for that. So if you could do us a solid here and wherever you listen to the show, like it, subscribe, and share.

Speaker 1 If you can do those three things, it'll cost you like two seconds of your time.

Speaker 1 And we'd be so grateful because when you do that, not only does it share the show with other people, but it makes the show more accessible, the way the internet works and the way all these things work together.

Speaker 1 So that would help us a lot. We know that you already do it.
Keep doing it is what I'm trying to say. All right, let's go to the phone lines.
We've got Nick in Chicago, Illinois, Chi-Town.

Speaker 1 What's going on, Nick?

Speaker 2 Hi, I was just calling because

Speaker 2 my wife and I are trying to study for a house and I've talked to her about having a budget. And for some reason, She says that we can stick to a budget.

Speaker 2 And I have like just used my notes app on my phone and talked about it with her, but it seems like it's like $10 here, $20 here, $50 here, and it adds up and I don't think she really realizes it.

Speaker 2 So I'm just calling to like ask

Speaker 2 how I can like talk to her, talk to her about it in a way where like she can get on board and then like how she can like stick to the budget that I'm wanting to stick to.

Speaker 1 So there could be two things at play.

Speaker 1 It could be that the budget is not quite realistic enough. It could be.
I don't know. I always say that budgets should be three things, detailed, realistic, and flexible.
So

Speaker 1 just that first pass here, there's part of me that thinks it's probably not hitting the mark in one or more of those areas.

Speaker 1 Did you tell me that you're using the notes app to budget or you're using the notes app to decide what to say to her?

Speaker 2 No, we've just written down like all of our expenses and then all of our

Speaker 2 how much we make and then all of our expenses per month.

Speaker 1 Okay, so that's another part of this. You know, having the right tool is what's going to make budgeting something that you can stick to and that you can do for the long haul.

Speaker 1 It makes it more enjoyable. It's really hard to stick to a budget that's written just in the notes app.
I'm just going to tell you that. So

Speaker 1 I think here, what we need here is the right set of tools and the right set of parameters and how to work the tool. So

Speaker 1 before you leave today, I'm going to get you set up with Every Dollar. It's the best budgeting app there is because on it, it's not a notes app.

Speaker 1 It's a really great app that you can have on your phone. It's on her phone.
It's working with you in time. So if you make a purchase on your phone, she sees it on her phone.

Speaker 1 And it's something as simple as, hey, I'm going to the grocery store. I just need to see how much we can spend.
And you open up the app and it says $300 and you're like, great.

Speaker 1 And then when you make that purchase at the grocery store, you spent $50, it automatically goes into the app. And now you can see now I only have $250 left to spend.

Speaker 1 So So it's going to do that math for you, and it's going to keep you guys on top of your numbers. I think that's going to go a really, really long way.
And then it's going to help you to see,

Speaker 1 okay, the numbers that we said, are they accurate? Like, does this actually work with our life?

Speaker 1 Because it's possible, Nick, that she's going over budget because what you've said is just not a realistic amount. Could I be right about that? Or?

Speaker 2 Yeah, possibly. I just feel like, I feel like just her knowing how much is left or how much we like is in the budget to go out to eat and stuff like that.

Speaker 2 We have a budget for that, but I feel like it always goes over.

Speaker 3 But it's also a notes app.

Speaker 1 So you're constantly like, it's almost like an old school ledger that you're having to.

Speaker 2 Yeah, no, I guess you mean like the app or whatever you're talking about, I feel like seems like something a lot more practical.

Speaker 3 Do y'all do this budget together?

Speaker 3 Or do you sit down and sit down?

Speaker 2 I sat down originally and wrote it out

Speaker 2 and we sat down together and looked at it together and went over it together and agreed like, hey, this is not right. This is right.
And then we should change a few things.

Speaker 3 But that didn't seem to work.

Speaker 1 How long have you been doing that?

Speaker 2 Six months.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 1 Give every dollar a try and see if it helps. Next thing I want to know is the area that she's the areas that she's going over.
Is it the same areas every month?

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's mostly just shopping and eating out.

Speaker 1 So you're both eating out or only she's eating out?

Speaker 2 Typically on like her lunch break from work, she'll eat out.

Speaker 1 Okay, so she's going out for lunch.

Speaker 1 And then what's the other area you said?

Speaker 3 Shopping, like for clothes? Shopping. Okay.

Speaker 1 So next question is, what baby step are you guys on?

Speaker 2 We're debt-free

Speaker 2 and we don't we're pretty much saving for a house.

Speaker 1 We don't have any debting what how much have you saved so far for the house

Speaker 2 24,000.

Speaker 1 Okay, good. And what's the goal?

Speaker 2 We're trying trying to get it as high as possible, but our goal was originally 80,000 and

Speaker 2 it hasn't really changed like the past like four months. We haven't really made any progress on saving more.

Speaker 1 Okay, let me ask you this. I'm just trying to get to the core because I don't want to say anything that's not quite right.

Speaker 1 How long did it take you to pay off your debt and save up the three to six months before you started this?

Speaker 2 Most of it was done.

Speaker 2 Most of it was done by me before

Speaker 2 we had gotten married. So I feel

Speaker 2 she didn't have any debt. I paid off my debt before we got married.

Speaker 1 Okay, so she didn't have debt. She comes into this and it's like we're in saving mode

Speaker 3 basically for the whole marriage. Okay.

Speaker 3 Nick, you keep saying we.

Speaker 3 There's no we here. You paid off debt.

Speaker 3 You built a budget. You want to buy a house.

Speaker 3 She wants to eat lunch with her friends and buy clothes.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Can I also ask another

Speaker 3 probing question? She wants to buy a house.

Speaker 2 She tells me she's so passionate about it. She can't wait to do it.

Speaker 3 She wants to do it. Yeah, but behavior is a language.
So she's being pretty clear about what she really believes.

Speaker 1 What is the clothing budget what is the food the out to eat budget

Speaker 2 like we've said like a hunt for like eating out for her we said

Speaker 2 um once a week go out and eat and i said like ten dollars a week once a week that's what we agreed on so forty dollars um

Speaker 2 yeah and then what's the clothes the forty dollars a month and what's the shopping budget i originally and then we had originally agreed on going once a month shopping with a $50 budget of that.

Speaker 3 Okay. And what's you guys' income combined? What's your combined income?

Speaker 2 $100,000.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 1 I think that she feels a little suffocated.

Speaker 1 She's like, we make $100,000 a year. I'm working.
He's working. I want to spend more than $40

Speaker 1 on restaurants. And maybe I want to spend.
So when she goes over shopping, I'm trying to meet in the middle because I'm not saying she's right. And I'm not saying she's you're wrong.

Speaker 1 When she goes over budget for clothes, how much does she go over?

Speaker 1 like she's spending like three hundred dollars a month the last few months on clothes okay she's tripping a little bit let's be honest about that so maybe it's hey i noticed you're going over fifty dollars isn't cutting it can we go to 150 can we go to can we go to 100 try to meet her in the middle because what i think what i think could be happening and john you could pop in here but i think she's like we don't have any debt Like we've got three to six months of savings.

Speaker 1 I don't want to feel so tight. I want a house, but I don't want to feel so, so tight.

Speaker 1 That might be going on. Try to meet her halfway on that.
And other than that, it's you guys sitting down and having a big kids' conversation about do we want a house or do we not want a house?

Speaker 1 And maybe it's you rolling out the numbers and saying, Hey, if we keep going at this rate, we're not going to have a house until the year 2034. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 And it's just you being honest about what's actually going on. And then,

Speaker 1 you know, see where it goes from there.

Speaker 1 It's not easy. These conversations are not easy.
This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Thank you for listening to The Ramsey Show on the Ramsey Network. I'm Jade Warshaw.
Next to me is Dr. John Deloney.
We're taking your calls. And here's the thing: sometimes you guys call.

Speaker 1 We have a number here that you can leave a message if you have a question or something you want to talk about. Sometimes people call and we miss the call.

Speaker 1 So if we missed your call, sorry we missed your call.

Speaker 1 We'll get to it. Matter of fact, we have a voicemail here from Meredith.

Speaker 3 Let's take a listen. I have a question about how did you go from being on welfare to being in the baby steps.

Speaker 3 It seems very, very scary to go from being on food camps and Medicaid and all of that stuff to switching to paying for everything yourself. Not really sure how to change that.

Speaker 3 I know it's a mindset, but I'm not really sure how to

Speaker 3 get from point A to point B without hurting myself and my children drastically. Thank you.
Bye.

Speaker 3 Wow. Okay.

Speaker 1 That's a deep one, John.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I like what you said. It's a mindset.
So I want to separate. I have a close friend of mine who

Speaker 3 right before she had child number three,

Speaker 3 husband left, like was in desperate need of support and care, right? So I think we're,

Speaker 3 I love that we can support and care people who find themselves in the the margins when life happens, right?

Speaker 3 I get a different vibe from Meredith, and I loved how she said it. She said it's a mindset.

Speaker 3 And there can come a point when

Speaker 3 the world that we've set up for some of our citizens is, you know what, you're never going to be enough. You just sit over there in the corner.
We're going to pat you on the head.

Speaker 3 And somebody's going to come take care of you because you can't do this. Yeah.
And over a long period of time, you begin to believe you're less than. Yeah.
That you can't. 100%.

Speaker 3 And she, I love this question she's asking because she's saying, no, I want to. I want to stand up and I want to be, I want to

Speaker 3 be in the driver's seat of my own life. And it's terrifying because I've got this sense.
Everybody's been treating me for so long and I've been living this way that I can't. I don't know how.

Speaker 3 I'll never know enough. I'm just going to hurt everybody.
I'm going to screw everything up. And y'all told me to go sit in the corner and pat me on the head.

Speaker 3 Y'all just send money in the mail and it's going to be all good.

Speaker 3 And so for someone who merited the situation, I think it's important to keep this one word and always keep this word front and center, which is practice.

Speaker 3 I'm just going to practice. It's a skill that I don't have.
I've never done this thing, and I'm going to practice this. And I have to practice.
I've never had a high school kid.

Speaker 3 I have one right now, just started. I'm having to practice being a high school dad because I've never done it before, and I'm already not doing a great job at it, right? I've never been

Speaker 3 the dad of a third grader. I've never done that.
I'm practicing, or a third grade daughter. I've never done that.
I'm practicing it.

Speaker 3 Similar, if you've never paid for anything, and often this generational poverty can be generational, right? Yeah. You learn that.
You learn how to sign up, learn how to work the system.

Speaker 3 Somebody helps you out.

Speaker 3 I've never done it before. Okay, cool.

Speaker 3 We're going to take baby steps. First thing we're going to do is we're going to learn how money works.
We're going to watch these courses. We're going to get a job.

Speaker 1 Well, you've also not

Speaker 1 had the opportunity to stretch your legs on it. Because

Speaker 1 if you're in these programs, there's limits like hey if you if you earn beyond this you no longer get the crutch cut you off and i'm thinking that like follow me on this uh in college i played volleyball and i was a middle blocker and i went up for a block and this crooked thumb snapped all the way back and i tore the ligaments all the way through and it was the most painful thing i've ever done even more painful than childbirth so I had this guard that I used to have to wear.

Speaker 3 And after a while,

Speaker 1 the trainer was like, hey, you got to take that guard off. And I was was like, oh, I can't take the guard off.
Like, I'm going to feel pain. I don't know.

Speaker 1 Like, it was, it, it, it was, it made me so afraid to play the game I loved playing without this guard on because I was like, for sure, I'm going to snap my ligaments again.

Speaker 3 And then you find yourself going up with two hands, but kind of like pedging the one.

Speaker 1 Yeah, like halfway, you're like, oh, you know, you've got this. And I'm like, you're never going to know what you can do until you just up and do it.
You got to stretch your legs. You got to play.

Speaker 1 You got to take the guard off and see.

Speaker 3 But she adds a very interesting component here. I don't want to hurt my kids.
Right. And so there's a lot of weight on that.
Hey, you just got to go, you got to go do this.

Speaker 1 But the thing is, you're on it until you're exceeding it. That's right.
So once you're exceeding it, you're exceeding it. And it's like, okay, I can do more.
I can keep going.

Speaker 1 I don't need this crutch any longer. It was there for a season.
It was never intended to be something that you had for the rest of your life.

Speaker 1 And so I think that's the part she's got to understand: is, okay, this was here to just kind of like raise me up a little bit and get me to that point.

Speaker 1 but i'm to that point now i can i can go forward and

Speaker 3 you know i think you have to be real about very very very real

Speaker 3 about the dollars and cents we took a call earlier yes how much does my house cost what are my electric bill what's my water bill what is my gas bill what is food in this house what's transportation look like how stable is this job do i need a second job what's child care yes you have to be honest about those numbers and it's easy to say i just want to be done with this

Speaker 3 great but if you're not ready math may not be done with with you. That's right.
Same as we talk to people on the other side. It's like, I'm just going buy this house.

Speaker 3 Math doesn't care what you want to do, right?

Speaker 3 So it's being honest about these numbers, and then we're going to practice. And you will mess it up.
If you've never stretched your legs,

Speaker 3 you're going to fall down. That's okay.
It's part of it. That's why we have coaches that walk alongside people.
That's why we have budget that gives you a good framework for it.

Speaker 3 And we'll walk with you every step of the way. But keep that word in mind.
Practice. Any of us, the cool cultural thing to do now is to scream and yell at people who are trying to change.

Speaker 3 Just beat them back to the place where they deserve. That's a good job.
I see men trying to become different kinds of men, and they're beat up on both sides. And what do they do? They stop.

Speaker 3 I don't want to take it. I see women, same thing.
See those with the least of these, those who are trying to learn to give.

Speaker 3 So you're going to have to ignore the voices, and you're going to have to go do the next right thing. And we all have to practice.
That's okay. We're learning new skills.

Speaker 3 We're going to make it happen.

Speaker 2 I like that. It's a good john.

Speaker 1 All right. Let's try to take a call.
We've got Darren in boise idaho what's going on darren

Speaker 2 well uh good afternoon i've got um a couple of questions for you i have um a he lock that i'm i'm paying on we had we had some big issues in our kitchen and we felt that it was probably best to just redo the kitchen and try to make a few different things work with it.

Speaker 2 We had a hole in the bottom of our oven, so we couldn't use our oven. Our cooktop wasn't working anymore.

Speaker 2 So we just redid our kitchen.

Speaker 3 What was the last

Speaker 2 amount? Well, it was

Speaker 2 $40,000.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 1 What else do you got?

Speaker 2 We redid it.

Speaker 2 And then we just, we have our home, and that's it.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 2 We have our home on a 15-year mortgage. We have

Speaker 2 $188,000 left, and it's at 2.25%.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 2 So my question is this.

Speaker 2 I'm 53.

Speaker 2 I'm investing in my 401k doing the catch-up, so it's like $30,000 a year.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 2 And I'm wondering,

Speaker 2 should I drop that for a year and pay off this HELOC? Is that going to ⁇ I mean, it's going to hurt me a little bit, but

Speaker 2 we're okay. We got about ⁇ we almost have $600,000 in our 401k.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And then, and so if I do that, then also then what is my tax liability? Because my taxable income is going to jump way up and my taxes are going to be

Speaker 3 brutal.

Speaker 3 It probably won't be that bad. No, it's not going to.

Speaker 1 When your tax bracket changes, your whole pay, the whole amount isn't on that bracket. It's just the amount that puts you into that bracket.

Speaker 1 So you're not going to, it's not going to be a bloodbath here.

Speaker 3 How much do you make?

Speaker 2 Our combined household income is about $200,000.

Speaker 3 Bro,

Speaker 3 here's what you've done. You put your house on the block for a new kitchen.

Speaker 3 You put the house on the block. You went to the bank and said, hey, you give us a kitchen, and if we don't pay you back, you can have our house.

Speaker 3 I would take my house.

Speaker 3 I would be much more concerned long-term that somebody else has the keys to my front door

Speaker 3 than not, than any kind of interest rate, any kind of tax implication.

Speaker 3 Do you get what i'm saying

Speaker 2 so so you would you would stop putting money into your four house

Speaker 1 i would stop everything and pay that heloc off your house is on the on the chopping block right now the key here is darren you've really dropped back to baby step two on this we always say that if the hoc is more than is less than half of the total value then it goes into baby step two so you owe 188 the heloc is 40 so for all intents and purposes you're on baby step two and so that's us pausing uh pausing retirement if you wanted to take some of the money that you had in savings and put it onto this and then rebuild that up, you could do that.

Speaker 1 But you're back in baby step two. It's not going to take you long to pay it off and rebuild your savings and get back to investing, but that's the bed you made.
And so you kind of have to lay in it.

Speaker 1 And I hate to tell you that because it feels not fun at 53 years old, but you guys made that choice. This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 From the Ramsey Network, it's the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 I'm Jade Warshaw next to Dr. John Deloney, and we're going to take your calls all hour long.
We're going to help you build wealth, do work that you love, and create amazing relationships.

Speaker 1 It's a live show, so if you want to call in, you can do that. The number is 888-825-5225.

Speaker 1 Let's get it on and popping, John.

Speaker 3 Let's do it. And I'll call you Dr.
Jade. I accept that.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 3 Don't do it. Dude, you can get them online now.
It's all good. It's all good.
It's a certificate of program.

Speaker 1 What is it called when they just bestow it on you because you did something cool?

Speaker 3 Honorary. Honorary.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 we had to give that to James. He wanted that, so we hooked him up with that.
Dr. James Childs, yeah, Dr.
James has a nice ring to it. Dr.
Jimmy C.

Speaker 1 Let's take a call. Let's go to Denver and talk to Chris.
What's going on, Chris? In Denver?

Speaker 2 Hi, how's it going?

Speaker 1 Doing good. How are you?

Speaker 2 I'm doing okay.

Speaker 2 I'm on base step two,

Speaker 2 which is paying debt off.

Speaker 2 And I've been just attacking debt, but I'm getting to the point now to to where,

Speaker 2 you know, should I start putting a little bit into

Speaker 2 my emergency fund? Because it seems like every time I turn around right now, I'm paying on a credit card.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 2 it's two steps forward, one step back, because there's a dental bill that comes up or something. We have three kids.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 1 So let's talk about that a little bit. You're on baby step two, but do you have the thousand dollars saved?

Speaker 1 oh yeah okay so you're you're feeling like you just keep going through it and and then some

Speaker 1 oh yeah okay uh part of this part of baby step two uh the huge the huge crux of baby step two is budgeting and the way that you're budgeting and how you're kind of scanning the next week and the next month and the next six months to make sure that you're budgeting properly um to try to avoid some of these what now feel like emergencies because whether it's dental stuff or it's something with the car

Speaker 1 So a lot of people will utilize sinking funds if they know, okay, like I'm going to have to take, you know, Junior to the dentist and it's never $100, right?

Speaker 1 So that's one way you can kind of start looking towards this. Another way you can look towards that is just to say not right now.

Speaker 1 Like if it's something that can wait, obviously if somebody's having tooth pain, it can't, you know, wait.

Speaker 1 But there might be some of the things when it comes to orthodontics and, you know, Jimmy needs braces, things like that that can wait. So tell me more about the emergencies that are popping up.

Speaker 3 Oh, it's just, I mean,

Speaker 2 now that you've put it that way, it's just sell you to plan.

Speaker 2 You know, I'll be honest, I've paid off in three months, I've paid off 30 grand worth of debt.

Speaker 3 Wow, way to go.

Speaker 3 Can I tell you, Chris, what I hear?

Speaker 3 You sound tired, man.

Speaker 3 I am. Are you exhausted?

Speaker 2 I run a business

Speaker 2 and I'm exhausted all the time. I work six, sometimes seven days a week.
Last night I got home at midnight.

Speaker 3 I was up at five.

Speaker 2 I'm at my stop.

Speaker 3 Can I stop real quick and just celebrate you, man?

Speaker 3 I know that's not going to pay your life bill, but dude, we have a culture of people who are sitting on their couch watching TV and posting and whining.

Speaker 3 And you are the man who gives me hope for the world that my two kids are inheriting.

Speaker 2 I appreciate that.

Speaker 3 Hey, I'm telling you right now, brother. You're out doing it.
If I had a culture of men like you and women like you, we would have literally zero of our innate challenges right now.

Speaker 3 Yeah. I'm listening.
Dude, I'm just telling you.

Speaker 3 Just dad to dad, I'm so proud of you I can hardly breathe, man.

Speaker 3 It's awesome. Now you're getting me choked up.

Speaker 3 How much longer do you got to go?

Speaker 2 I did the depth calculator, and that's the thing. I did the deck calculator, and

Speaker 2 it said 2027,

Speaker 2 February 2027, with everything that I've got right now.

Speaker 2 Consumer debt-wise, our mortgage will be paid off, and half of it will be paid off in

Speaker 2 four years, and the other half will be 10 years.

Speaker 1 So, half of it in four years, so that's the 2027. Are you including half of it in that?

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 half the mortgage payment goes away. We bought two lots.

Speaker 3 I see.

Speaker 2 I basically bought two lots and moved to mobile on it that I bought for three grand and renovated the whole thing and paid cash to do it. So now we owe

Speaker 2 we're not, we don't do business with banks.

Speaker 2 I don't have, I have, they did an owner carry on my property

Speaker 2 and I did it that way so I could pay cash to do it and have a place. Our mortgage is $1,100 a month.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 how much is the other consumer debt?

Speaker 3 $175,000.

Speaker 1 Okay. And what kind of debt is it? Can you go through it for me?

Speaker 3 See if we can shortcut it.

Speaker 2 I'm going to have a buck for $62,000 that I

Speaker 2 didn't really have a choice on.

Speaker 3 Tell me more about that. $62,000 feels like a lot of choices.
Tell me. What is it?

Speaker 2 I had had a twenty seventeen

Speaker 2 um I shoe horses for a living. Okay.
65,000 miles a year on a truck. Okay.
65,000 miles.

Speaker 2 Yeah, 65,000 miles a year on a truck.

Speaker 2 My truck blew up. They wanted 30 grand fix it.
They had 305,000 on it.

Speaker 2 It was over twenty twenty two.

Speaker 2 Right around there.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 2 there was zero trucks on the lot. And they were wanting more

Speaker 2 for some used trucks than they were for new trucks.

Speaker 3 Back.

Speaker 2 I worked for very high and people that

Speaker 2 I have to be there.

Speaker 3 It's just here.

Speaker 1 Here's what I want to get to because I don't want to run out of time on you. Okay, so it's a $62,000 truck.
What's it worth? You owe $62,000, what is it worth?

Speaker 2 I'm $30,000 upside down on it.

Speaker 3 Oh, gosh. Okay.

Speaker 1 $30,000 upside down. Okay, tell us the rest of the debt.
Let's keep going.

Speaker 2 I have another truck that I bought, used

Speaker 2 by December.

Speaker 1 Talk right into your phone because you're breaking up.

Speaker 1 Talk right into your phone for me.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Yeah, go for it.

Speaker 2 I'm talking right into it.

Speaker 3 Okay. Can you hear me? Yep.
Yep.

Speaker 2 I owe $32,000 on another truck.

Speaker 1 What's it worth?

Speaker 2 I'm $10,000 upside down on that one.

Speaker 1 Okay, so it's worth $22,000?

Speaker 1 Yeah. Okay, is it necessary for your life or can we off-haul it? Is it necessary for your business?

Speaker 2 Yes, this is what I use primary for my business. I I wanted to stop driving the one that I'm thirty grand upside down on, pay the payment, and hopefully in a year I can get rid of it.

Speaker 1 Okay. It might require you switching that ideal because it's going to be harder to get out of this $30,000 truck upside down than this one that you're only $10,000 upside down.

Speaker 1 And that could clear out $20,000 of debt lickety split if you did that, if you just got a a loan to cover the difference.

Speaker 2 Well, my only thing is, is the other one that I bought is a diesel.

Speaker 2 My one that blew up was a diesel. And when the diesel blows up, it's

Speaker 2 $30,000 plus dollars.

Speaker 3 Okay, but there's no...

Speaker 2 The one I'm driving now is a gas truck, and it doesn't cost the repair costs and everything on it.

Speaker 3 Hold on, brother. Listen, you're creating a world where you can't win.

Speaker 3 You're creating a world where you can't win. There's not a path forward without sacrifice here, man.

Speaker 3 There's just not.

Speaker 3 We want you to win so bad, but you're going to have to make some concessions.

Speaker 3 Whether you stop doing high-end horseshoeing or you sell one of these trucks or you get rid of one of the lots, you're going to have to make some hard calls, brother.

Speaker 1 Yeah. You know what? I'm interested in talking with you more.
Can you stay on the line so we can talk to you a little bit longer? This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 You're listening to the Ramsey Show. I'm Jay.
Next to me is Dr. John.
We're taking your calls. Matter of fact, we just took a call from Chris in Denver.
He was telling us about his situation.

Speaker 1 He's $175,000 in debt.

Speaker 1 And right now, it's going to take him until 2027 to pay it off. I asked him to go a little bit more deeper into the situation.
It turns out he's got a $62,000 truck that he's $30,000 upside down on.

Speaker 1 He also has a $32,000 truck that he's $10,000 upside down on. And I just wanted to dig a little bit deeper.

Speaker 1 Chris, does that sound about right, bud?

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah,

Speaker 2 that's about right. It's not like we're destitute.
I mean, I make really good money.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Oh, I know you do.
I know you do.

Speaker 1 I see that.

Speaker 1 I just want to make sure that we're making the most of this debt-free timeline because, you know,

Speaker 1 you sounded so tired when you called in, and we want to make sure you get to the light at the end of the tunnel here. So you're currently driving the $32,000 truck.

Speaker 1 You're driving it because it's not a diesel truck and you don't want it to blow up. But meanwhile, you've got the $62,000 truck sitting in the driveway, what, collecting dust?

Speaker 1 So, I want to figure out the right solution on that. But tell me about the rest of the debt.

Speaker 2 I owe

Speaker 2 $40,000 to the IRS.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 3 And then I, and then I have,

Speaker 2 let's see, there's that and that.

Speaker 2 And then I owe $11 on a credit card.

Speaker 1 $11 on a credit card. Is there something else?

Speaker 3 $130, $40,000. I think so.

Speaker 2 Maybe I'm wrong on the number.

Speaker 3 Okay, because

Speaker 1 right now I've got 100, 134, 144, and you told me you had 175, right?

Speaker 2 Yeah, what else? Let me think for a second here.

Speaker 1 Meanwhile,

Speaker 1 while you talk about that, I think that's it. That's it.
Okay, so it's a little less than what we thought about.

Speaker 1 First things first, IRS has to jump to the top of the list if it's not okay.

Speaker 1 Okay. Usually we talk about the debt snowball being smallest to largest.
In this case, IRS has to come first. And that's for anybody listening.

Speaker 1 If you're in trouble with the IRS, you got to deal with that first because no telling what they can garnish your wages. And then that would really put you in a dilly of a pickle, as they say.

Speaker 3 Okay, so that's for I've got an agreement with them.

Speaker 2 I just make them, I make them a payment.

Speaker 1 Okay, but you're going to pay them more because they're going to be the number one thing in your debt snowball.

Speaker 3 Yeah?

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 3 Knock it out as quickly as possible.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and I was, I've got that, that was next in mind after the $11,000 credit card.

Speaker 1 Yes, but now we're switching that and we're putting the IRS

Speaker 1 IRS first.

Speaker 1 Okay. Okay.
Got to do it that way.

Speaker 3 All right.

Speaker 1 Going back to these trucks. Hey, I really, you got to sell one of them.
And the one that makes the most sense to sell John, cut in if you want to. I'm just thinking about,

Speaker 1 I mean, if you wanted to take the hit on the $30,000, the $62,000 truck and just say, hey, I'd rather owe $30,000

Speaker 1 than $60,000, you could, I guess, take out a loan for the difference and be on the hook for the $30,000.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Let me, dude,

Speaker 3 are you frustrated with this, Chris? Like, are you frustrated with yourself? No, no, not at all.

Speaker 2 I'm just trying to, I'm a number.

Speaker 2 I mean, I know I've gotten myself into this, but

Speaker 2 I would love to get rid of the $62,000.

Speaker 1 Then do it.

Speaker 3 Head over there.

Speaker 1 If your credit will allow you, get a $30,000 loan for the difference and sell the truck for $30,000. You're free and clear.
I'd rather you owe $30,000 than $62,000. And

Speaker 1 it's going to suck. You're going to be like, why?

Speaker 1 But you got to get out of that. The only other choice is to go and sell the $32,000 truck that you're $10,000 upside down on on that one.

Speaker 3 Can I ask you this? How much do you make, brother? Like,

Speaker 3 what's your net income from your business alone?

Speaker 2 My whole business

Speaker 2 is

Speaker 2 $175,000 a year?

Speaker 3 Yeah. Okay.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 that's after all the truck payments and everything, too.

Speaker 2 I bring in a quarter million a year.

Speaker 1 That's your bottom line.

Speaker 3 So why in the world is it going to take you two years or three years to pay this debt off?

Speaker 2 Because

Speaker 2 it hasn't. I mean, if I did more towards it, but I'm just living.

Speaker 2 Like I've been putting $10,000 a month more debt, and then I drain my bank account, and then something comes up, and then I got to put it on a credit card.

Speaker 3 Here's the thing.

Speaker 2 Hold some of that back a little bit.

Speaker 3 Yeah. I mean, if you know a dentist appointment is coming for your child, yeah.

Speaker 1 With you owning your own business, there's a tension here between are you going to pay yourself more and pay taxes on that and do all that whole song and dance or are you going to leave the money in the business and do it like that?

Speaker 1 So I think that you have more. I'm not sure the workings of your business.

Speaker 1 I don't know if you're the only employer of your business, but if you have the ability to pay yourself more so that you can work through this more quickly, I would do that.

Speaker 1 I would get rid of one of these trucks. Whatever makes the most sense, whatever one you're willing to part with, you've got to get rid of one.
Maybe it's the $60,000 one.

Speaker 1 That's probably where I would start. You've got to move IRS to the top of the list.
That's the prescription. It's up to you if you're going to take the medicine or not.
All right.

Speaker 1 Let's go to Travis, who's in Dallas, Texas. What's going on, Travis?

Speaker 2 Hey, Jade and Dr. John.
How are you guys today?

Speaker 3 We're doing good. How can we help?

Speaker 2 Fantastic. I am super glad to be on.
Dr. John just finished building a non-anxious life on audiobook while door dashing.

Speaker 3 Excellent. Hope you're a little bit less anxious, man.

Speaker 2 Yep, absolutely. So, my question is: my wife and I are in baby step two.

Speaker 2 We've got

Speaker 2 about $129,000 left to pay.

Speaker 2 We are

Speaker 2 so basically what I'm trying to figure out is I have a loan that is

Speaker 2 a

Speaker 2 loan from a credit union from a car that was underwater, and the minimum payment is $583,

Speaker 2 and there's $5,000 left on that. However, that is like seven debts down the debt snowball.

Speaker 2 And so I was curious on what your guys' thoughts were in trying to pay that off a little bit more quickly to free up that $583 payment a month.

Speaker 1 So you're saying it's four debts down and the ones in front of it have a lower, have less money that they free up?

Speaker 2 Correct. It's actually, well, the IRS is on the top right now.

Speaker 2 And then one, two, three, four,

Speaker 2 five, six, seven. It's actually eight debts down from the top.

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 1 the truth is, Travis, a lot of the thought behind some of the things we teach is not necessarily from a mathematical perspective. That's the truth.

Speaker 1 A lot of times it has more to do with how you're feeling and what makes you feel more motivated in a moment.

Speaker 1 And so the way the reason we teach the debt snowball is because there's something about being able to check something off a list and cross it off the list and go, okay, yes, I've done something successful.

Speaker 1 I can keep going. And so my guess is, I mean, not a guess.
It's true. The ones that are before this $5,000 debt are a lot smaller of debts and you should be able to knock them out fast.

Speaker 1 They're $5,000 and lower, right? And you said it's eight that go above that. So, I mean, how much could these debts be? Two and three thousand dollars?

Speaker 2 Yeah, so they're anywhere between two and four thousand.

Speaker 2 And, you know, so far we've paid off about 30,000 since we started with you guys in March.

Speaker 1 How much margin are you putting every month?

Speaker 3 What's your shovel?

Speaker 2 About $2,000 a month. Okay, so $2,000 extra, $5,000 total towards debt a month.

Speaker 1 So in about five or six months, you should be up to this $5,000 debt. Yeah.

Speaker 1 If you've got a $2,000 shovel and most of the debts are between $2,000 and $4,000, we should be clicking up this. Basically, almost every month, you're almost knocking one of them out.
And so

Speaker 1 I think that's going to feel more gratifying than having the extra money there. Now, it's your life.
You can do whatever you want. I'm not going to yell at you.

Speaker 1 You're the one who has to sleep in your bed at night is what I'm saying. But that's my advice.

Speaker 3 And I'm sticking to it. I like the burr in your saddle.
I I like the fact that it pisses you off.

Speaker 3 Oh, yes. Yeah.

Speaker 3 I like the fact that it's follow it in order, man, and let it just drive you crazy. Let it drive you crazy.

Speaker 3 And it's going to encourage, I guarantee you, if you don't pay it off early, you'll get there faster than six months.

Speaker 3 Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2 It's definitely got a motivation. When you have $175,000 of student loans where you started with, and, you know, I've made more progress in the past six months than I almost did in 10 years.

Speaker 3 Of course you did. That's right.
That's right. And so I think the next six months to eight months are game changers for you guys momentum wise.

Speaker 1 There's a reason that we teach what we teach. We teach it because it works.
At the end of the day, it works. We've been teaching this 30 years.

Speaker 1 Not me, but Dave Ramsey the goat. And I've just been here, I don't know, two years, but I can tell you it works.
It works for me.

Speaker 1 My husband and I paid off $460,000 of debt using the debt snowball method, listing those debts from smallest to largest, making minimum payments on all, but throwing all the money at the smallest debt this is the ramsey show

Speaker 1 you're listening to the ramsey show i'm jade warshaw next to me is dr john deloney you can give us a call if you want us to take your call it's triple eight eight two five two two five and we will get to you all right john the live like no one else cruise is almost sold out can you believe that I can.

Speaker 1 More than 80% of the cabins are already booked. Yeah, dude.
So if you want to join us in March, you need to secure your cabin today.

Speaker 1 The cruise really is just the ultimate debt-free celebration, if that's the way you want to look at it.

Speaker 1 This is for people who are on baby step four and above. All right.
So if you're on baby step two, the boat's going to leave without you is all I'm saying. It's not for you.
So.

Speaker 3 So you straight up rhymed that. If you're on baby step two, the boat will leave without you.

Speaker 1 Listen, I'm a poet and didn't know it. Be rhyming all the time.

Speaker 3 All the time. Here we go.

Speaker 1 Join us. And when I say us, us, I'm talking about all the Ramsey personalities.
Dr. John, myself,

Speaker 1 George Camill, Rachel Cruz. I'm going to forget somebody.
Ken Coleman, the goat. We're all going to be there.

Speaker 3 George. George

Speaker 3 is campaigning for a cannonball competition. He is very small, but he is a mighty cannonballer.
So that's going to be a key part of the week.

Speaker 1 It's a speed-o-only cannonball competition.

Speaker 3 That's what he's campaigning for. Obviously,

Speaker 3 Ken and I want to wear, well, Ken wants to wear jean shorts. I just want to wear regular

Speaker 3 regular swim trunks, but we'll get there. We'll figure it all out.
We'll figure out the logistics. It's going to be a party.

Speaker 1 No shoes. No shirt.

Speaker 3 And it's also,

Speaker 3 because this is like the meeting of, this is like the meeting of the epicenter of the cult. There's going to be many punch bowls and ladles.
We're just going to drink Kool-Aid. Stop it.

Speaker 1 It's going to be amazing. Okay, wait a minute.
Let me go back. This is not going to be Kenny Chesney's cruise, as I may have said.

Speaker 3 It's going to be

Speaker 3 a blast.

Speaker 1 It's going to be a Cultic Cruise, as John has said.

Speaker 3 Why would you not come? It's going to be so fun. We're going all over the place.

Speaker 1 It's going to be so much fun. We're going to to Turks and Caicos, St.
Thomas, Puerto Rico, Bahamas.

Speaker 1 We've made this announcement a lot of times. That's why me and John are cutting up, but it's going to be a great, great time.

Speaker 1 You don't want to miss this. We're partying with Dave.
Come on. You don't want to miss it.
You can secure your spot for $600.

Speaker 1 That's the deposit before all the cabins are gone. So if you just are like, I don't want to miss out, put your $600 down.

Speaker 1 And book your cabin today at ramseysolutions.com slash cruise. That's the way to do it.
We'll see you there. We'll see you out there.

Speaker 3 All right.

Speaker 1 Let's go to the phone lines. We've got Angie, who's in Albuquerque, New Michigan.

Speaker 3 What's up, Angie?

Speaker 2 Hello.

Speaker 2 How are you doing?

Speaker 3 Doing good. What's up?

Speaker 2 So I have a question regarding my marriage. So legally, I've been married for 13 years, but it's been on and off for a while there.

Speaker 2 But lately, recently, within the last three years, I have been living a silent divorce with my my husband as far as

Speaker 2 being emotionally, physically, financially detached from our marriage. So I have a roommate now.

Speaker 3 Tell me about that choice. Why have y'all chosen that world?

Speaker 2 Because there's no more connection there.

Speaker 3 I know, but like

Speaker 3 it's kind of a thing in popular culture to say like our relationship ran its course. I just reject that.

Speaker 3 People, at the end of the day, they stop or one person just gets off the train and the other person person can't keep going. But

Speaker 3 have y'all sat down and had this conversation? Or

Speaker 3 have y'all just slowly let this thing go out to pasture?

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 2 That's basically how it happened. Okay.
We did not sit down for it. And I've particularly asked for divorce, but he said he was not finding anything.
So we just live like this.

Speaker 2 The issue around all of this is this is what I'm just wondering, if it's even healthy to do this part here.

Speaker 2 I know it's not healthy for me, but from what I've been looking for spiritually is what they've been telling me and what I've been, you know, throughout my research is that it's better for the kids to be at home and see both parents, even though we're living in the situation, versus being separated in different homes that would be more harmful for them.

Speaker 3 I don't understand how that doesn't even pass your smell test.

Speaker 3 You know that's not true, and you're repeating something you continue to hear.

Speaker 3 do you think it's better for your child to walk home and see two people who say we are married and your child is downloading into their nervous system and into their heart and mind and soul this is what marriage this is what love and compassion and till death to us part looks like

Speaker 2 i know

Speaker 2 no i don't agree with it but this is what

Speaker 3 i know people are going to say what they're going to say

Speaker 2 you know Well, not necessarily. It's like, you know, the Bible says, you know, once you get married, you're married for life.
That's it.

Speaker 3 Your husband left you. And I'm saying this with all love in my heart.
He left you. He just won't leave the house.

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 well, I wish he would.

Speaker 3 I know, but he left you.

Speaker 2 We both did.

Speaker 3 Then you both left each other. And so what you're doing is you're playing legal semantics with the Bible.
Stop.

Speaker 2 So I can't make someone fine. You know what I mean? It's like that's the best.

Speaker 3 There can be a no-fault divorce, and the judge will make you sell your house and property and divide it up.

Speaker 3 And he will get whatever part is his, and you will get whatever part is yours, and you will go on about the life y'all have created for yourself. But both of you are making a choice every single day.

Speaker 3 And I hate to be so direct, but that's the truth.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 what I think is you're, I think you are, you're living a life as a divorced person. That's the word you gave me.
Right. Well, that's what I mean.

Speaker 3 So you've already violated this this biblical contract you're trying to stay, like, you're trying to stay true to. You've already done it.

Speaker 1 Plus, most contracts, can I just say the heart of a contract is the heart of the matter.

Speaker 1 Like when you get married, the piece of paper is a legality, but it's more about you're saying, I'm in commitment and covenant with this person. It's the heart.
That's really what. is the marriage.

Speaker 1 Like if we're talking about things from really like this biblical perspective, it's that commitment. But you guys have long since detached from that.

Speaker 1 So it's not about the the legal piece of paper that's not

Speaker 3 are you are you telling me the reconciliation is over that he won't sit down and say okay we've chosen to build this life and now we can choose to build something else

Speaker 2 no it's definitely over

Speaker 2 but again my it's more towards what's going to be more

Speaker 2 lack of word what what what is just going to be more i don't know uh healthier maybe

Speaker 3 you're so far

Speaker 3 ma'am you're so far past health

Speaker 3 You're so far past that. And I know that's hard because you're living in it.
You've been living in it for 36 months.

Speaker 3 You're so far past health. A healthy mother and a healthy dad, that's the greatest gift for your kids.

Speaker 2 And I really...

Speaker 2 It doesn't matter whether it's the same household or not, regardless if they're going to be wonderful, productive people of society, it just doesn't matter whether it's the same household or not.

Speaker 3 That's just the bottom line. No, it's it's a this is like it's a straw man.
So people ask people ask me on my show all the time that the question is oh, should we stay together for the kids?

Speaker 3 No, fix your marriage for the kids.

Speaker 3 Like that's that's a it's a it's a false dichotomy like fix your marriage for your children for yourselves and then out of that repair your kids get to see two people that got really distant, but they made a covenant and they came back together.

Speaker 3 And if both of you refuse to do that, yes, then your house becomes cancer. Stop.

Speaker 3 But it's not just for your kid, it's for you too and for your husband.

Speaker 1 Can I ask a question? Are you guys living together peacefully? Or is this like the worst?

Speaker 3 No, no.

Speaker 1 I mean, we're fine. So you're living together peacefully.
Can I ask another question? Was there like a like a catalyst? Like, was there a moment that it was like, that's it? Like, did somebody cheat?

Speaker 1 Did somebody, was there that big blow-up moment? Or did this just slowly erode over time?

Speaker 2 It's like I said in the beginning. So, you know, in the beginning of our marriage, it's been on and off because I had a child previously.

Speaker 2 and supposedly he was gonna you know love my child and everything and just throughout the years I realized no he resents her a lot and because of that it's just

Speaker 2 it had it just turned turned me off completely that so you're so you left him

Speaker 3 no we're still in the same home no no no no but for all practical matters you left him

Speaker 3 right okay

Speaker 3 then call it call a spade a spade

Speaker 2 yeah I can't get I can't get that love back it's just no that's not true you're choosing not to and that's okay.

Speaker 3 You can make that choice. No

Speaker 3 Okay

Speaker 3 You can make if you're if you're done you're done you're done you're done. I I don't I don't

Speaker 3 Again, I don't want that to be the case

Speaker 3 But I also understand if y'all both made a choice and let's make a choice and let's go ahead and call what we're doing what it actually is we're doing this idea of a silent divorce.

Speaker 3 It's like all hipster and cool

Speaker 3 man

Speaker 3 You are untethered inside your own home. So you begin to come home and you don't know who or what the energy in this home is going to be.
It's not safe for anybody. It's not good.

Speaker 3 Be adults and let's sit across the table and let's say, if we've made this choice to end this, then we're going to do the right thing, the next right thing.

Speaker 3 If there's any chance we can choose to come back together, let's make that choice and let's fight like hell to save this marriage. But y'all get to make that choice.

Speaker 1 You're listening to The Ramsey Show. Next to me is Dr.
John Deloney. I'm Jane Warshaw.
We're taking your calls.

Speaker 1 We mostly take your calls. It's a live show, but today we have a question of the day that's coming to you from YReFi.
Today's question of the day brought to you by YReFi.

Speaker 1 So now we don't recommend refinancing on everything, but for distressed private student loans, there is YReFi. We trust YReFi because they help you with low fixed rate, fixed interest rate.

Speaker 1 They help you get a low fixed interest rate you couldn't get anywhere else. To help you stick to your budget and get out of debt, learn more at yrefi.com slash Ramsey.

Speaker 1 That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y F Y dot com slash Ramsey. May not be available in all states.

Speaker 3 All right, today's question comes from Wyatt in California. Wyatt writes, my wife recently asked for a divorce,

Speaker 3 but she wants to stay married until she finishes her MBA degree.

Speaker 3 Wow. To complicate things, my family.
Oh, nice.

Speaker 3 To complicate things, my family had agreed to pay for her degree when she started the program as an early inheritance for me.

Speaker 3 This guy

Speaker 3 is an honor student. I think she only wants to stay for the free tuition.
What should I do?

Speaker 1 If I had a beard, I'd be stroking my beard on this one because this is ridiculousness.

Speaker 3 I don't mean this to be mean, Jade, but we're doomed just as a society.

Speaker 1 This is bananas.

Speaker 3 Bro, your wife left you.

Speaker 3 She asked you for divorce.

Speaker 3 There's a word.

Speaker 3 Oh, boy. Okay,

Speaker 3 dude, listen. It's not good.

Speaker 3 If you say yes to this, you got to bounce with an ounce. You have to

Speaker 3 brush your shoulders off. She left you.
She left you.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 there's so much complexity here.

Speaker 3 Yes, don't pay for the wife that's leaving you, that's divorcing you. Don't let her take part of your inheritance.
This whole thing is such a mess.

Speaker 3 Yes, I would stop tuition payments. How about that? Let's just start there, for God's sakes.

Speaker 1 Yeah, if you're not, the gravy train ends. Like at that point, like if you, if you get divorced, you don't get to say, oh, and will your parents please still pay for my, you know.

Speaker 3 It's like being at the Golden Corral and you cash out and you get your ticket and you walk into the parking lot and then you see them bringing, bringing prime ribs.

Speaker 3 Yeah. You don't get to go back.
Wait a minute, wait. Wait, wait, I'm going to back a truck up here and take all the prime rib out.
Dude, you cashed out. You cashed out.

Speaker 1 Somebody else gets the prime rib.

Speaker 3 That's right. You left.
It's golden corral, baby. Wow.
Yeah. You left.

Speaker 1 This is a boundaries conversation, I'm guessing, John.

Speaker 3 I mean, there's clearly a lot.

Speaker 1 She can, you don't, you don't get both sides of, you can't have your cake and eat it, too. If she says, I want a divorce, all right.

Speaker 1 Boom.

Speaker 1 And I definitely wouldn't drag the in-laws into it. No.
That just makes it even more messy.

Speaker 3 And if your in-laws hear the story and they say, well, that's cool. We still want to pay for her

Speaker 3 for her degree.

Speaker 3 A,

Speaker 3 they can do what they want to do. It's their money.
And B, if it is part of an inheritance, then it will come out of a divorce settlement. So it's not just going to be free money.

Speaker 3 It will have to be disclosed as part of a divorce settlement. And y'all will figure that out in court.
And I'm heartbroken for you, Wyatt, that your wife wants to divorce you.

Speaker 3 I hate that for you, man. I just hate it.
I hate it. I hate it.
I hate it.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 This is, this sucks. And if I could be ridiculous for a moment, her timing was terrible.

Speaker 3 I mean, like,

Speaker 1 she must feel some type of way. Like, if I'm like, gosh, let me, I want to finish my MBA, but I don't want to tell him.

Speaker 3 Well, there's also the other side of this that, like, Wyatt's cheated five times. Yeah.
She finally says, I'm out, but I'm getting my, my, my,

Speaker 1 we don't know. We, that's the thing about these questions.
We never know. You could, you know,

Speaker 1 throw a lot of different wrenches into the subject, but at the end of the day, it's like, if you say you're done, you're done.

Speaker 3 Here's the best way to think of it. The moment somebody says, I'm divorcing you,

Speaker 3 from this point forward, this is no longer a romantic relationship. This is a business transaction, period.

Speaker 3 It has gone,

Speaker 3 we got married. We signed a marriage contract for this reason.
This is how we're going to separate everything.

Speaker 3 It is a business proposition from this point forward when somebody throws the D-word and says, I'm divorcing you.

Speaker 3 Cool. Then that's how we're handing along this moving forward.

Speaker 1 Can I ask you a question? Yep.

Speaker 1 I'm not trying to trip you up in any way. So

Speaker 1 on the show, we talk a lot about money, obviously. And we always say that, you know, one of the main causes of divorce is money fights and money problems.

Speaker 1 You're a person who's in this knee-deep all the time.

Speaker 1 Where does it start?

Speaker 3 I think we, I mean, I think it's both and. So we say money is a symptom.

Speaker 3 And I'm saying that because we've had two of these in a row of just whacked out just what's going on here we say that money is a symptom and i think it continues so let's take abuse and let's take just evil and put off to the side that's outside the bell curve in this conversation right there's abusive people and there's terrible people we know that i don't think most people are abusive most people are terrible i think most people are um unintentional And they have a picture about what they want their life to look like.

Speaker 3 And they just assume that the person next to them that they married is going to absorb into that picture, not knowing that that person has a picture of what their life is going to look like and vice versa.

Speaker 3 And so here's a good example in my house. It's something so tiny that happened recently.

Speaker 3 We have two dogs and then we just, I got my daughter a little,

Speaker 3 it's like a gremlin dog.

Speaker 3 So now we have a cockapoo. And they fight and scream and run around.

Speaker 3 I got to where dinner time was frustrating for me. It just felt like so much.

Speaker 3 And I wasn't being the dad that wanted to be. I was finding myself snippy.
I was finding myself just like, hey, can y'all,

Speaker 3 once we backed out and my wife and and I, and she's like, hey, man, dinner's like a sacred time. We always just come here and exhale.
It's where we laugh.

Speaker 3 It's these three dogs that we took from outside are running around underneath the table. We put them in a kennel now during dinner.

Speaker 1 And man, I just made a clear choice.

Speaker 3 It was unintentional. And what was happening was I didn't want to come to the table.
My wife didn't want to be around a grumpy me. So it's easier.

Speaker 3 Hey, we're just going to grab, we're going to grab Chick-fil-A on the way home. Right.
And so it happens by teeny tiny degrees. And turns out it's the dumb dogs running around on the table.

Speaker 3 So it's a lack of intentionality and a lack of saying, Hey, this is a sacred thing for us. You want this, I want this.
How do we choose to make this happen? Oh, we can just do that. That's easy.

Speaker 3 It's a lack of intentionality.

Speaker 3 When you're not intentional about your money, then suddenly I'm buying this, you're buying this, you borrowed this, I want to buy this, and now we have two different worlds, but we live on the same couch.

Speaker 3 And then it implodes, right? So, money fights are a symptom of two people that have not aligned their pictures and have not aligned their values and have not committed.

Speaker 3 We're going to forego short-term pleasure for a long-term vision of what the world we want to build together.

Speaker 1 And it sounds like they've chosen the wrong enemy to direct their

Speaker 1 guns at, right? That's right.

Speaker 3 Yeah. And so going back to the previous call,

Speaker 3 you make a choice, you make teeny, tiny choices along the way that gets you this final choice. You do that with your money.
You do that with your physical health. Right.

Speaker 3 Like my buddy Lane Norton didn't just wake up one day and win worlds. He started 20 years ago lifting weights, right? So then every day.

Speaker 1 I got it with your marriage. It's the same thing getting back, right?

Speaker 3 The beauty is if you will own you and I have both made choices to choose a miserable marriage, then you can both make choices to choose something amazing.

Speaker 3 That's where the light and the darkness is. You can choose something else.
It's nothing is inevitable unless outside of abuse. Nothing's inevitable.
You can choose something different together.

Speaker 3 It's amazing.

Speaker 1 I love that, John. See, this is this, you add a lot to the show, John.
And I love picking your brain on stuff like this because you just have a different perspective.

Speaker 1 And by the way, I believe in people.

Speaker 3 You do. I really do, man.
I like that.

Speaker 1 I like getting to host with you.

Speaker 1 I have to, I kind of wanted to go to John for a minute, but I also want to let you guys know before this hour ends that this hour is about to end if you're listening, you know, on your favorite platform.

Speaker 1 But if you want to keep watching the show and keep finishing this specific episode, keep hearing from John, keep hearing from me, you got to head over to the Ramsey Network app in order to finish the show.

Speaker 1 If you're on the radio, you can just keep listening. It's still going to play.
More calls are still coming up. We've got Christian from Madison, Wisconsin.
We've got Carol from Sacramento.

Speaker 1 We've got a truck driver who's living out of his semi-truck coming up. We've got a woman, Ashley.
She wants to know if she should use the money that she has to get a car or to pay off debt.

Speaker 1 So we've got really great calls coming up. I'm going to pick John's brain a little bit more.

Speaker 1 But again, the Ramsey Network app is the only place that you're really going to get the full episodes of the Ramsey show like you used to, like you're used to hearing.

Speaker 1 So, you got to go over to the app. If you don't know where it is, you can search Ramsey Network in the app store or on Google Play.
That's the way to find it.

Speaker 1 And by the way, we're still working on the app. We're every day, we're doing things to make it better, make that experience the best we can for you.
We just started this, so it's kind of cool.

Speaker 1 You guys are in on the ground level, and we're here. We're happy you're here with us.
But again, don't miss what's coming up next. Head over to the Ramsey Network app, and it'll be me and John.

Speaker 1 We'll be in our same clothes, same shirt, same palaid, finishing up this show. Thanks for hanging out with us.
This is the Ramsey Show.