You’ll Never Be Able to Outearn Your Own Stupidity

Speaker 1 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships.

Speaker 1 I am Rachel Cruz, hosting this hour with my good friend and best-selling author, Jade Warshaw, and we'll be answering your questions. So give us a call at 888-825-5225.

Speaker 1 And we'll be talking about your life, your money, your career, your relationships, anything and everything. We are here for you.
So first up, we have Gelly in Greensboro, North Carolina.

Speaker 1 Hey, Gellie, welcome to the show.

Speaker 2 Hello, Rachel. Thank you for taking my call.

Speaker 1 Absolutely. How can we help?

Speaker 2 Yes, well, we have a 35-year-old son who he just struggles with managing his family's finances. And now he's currently in like a mental health crisis.

Speaker 2 So he's not getting a check right now until short-term disability kicks in, which we're not sure when that will be.

Speaker 2 So my husband are prepared to step in and help the family with whatever they need, but also financially. But what we want to know is how do we best support him?

Speaker 2 with the finances

Speaker 2 because it has been

Speaker 2 years of poor financial decisions, we wonder if

Speaker 2 can we provide help they need, but also say, hey, once this is over, we want you guys to be set up to sustain yourselves if there's ever another issue like this.

Speaker 1 Sure. So what was the issue? Can I ask what the mental health crisis is? Was he diagnosed with a mental health disorder?

Speaker 2 Well, yeah, he's ADHD, so that's been since childhood, but he's going through depression and anxiety right now. It's crippling.

Speaker 2 So it started about a month ago when it was really bad diagnosed, and now it's just kind of,

Speaker 2 it's gotten better, but it's still, it's still not good.

Speaker 2 Okay. And so we're working with my daughter-in-law at the moment.

Speaker 1 Okay, so he's married. Do they have kids?

Speaker 2 Yes, they have four children.

Speaker 1 Oh, wow. Okay.
Young? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Their ages are 7 to 14.

Speaker 3 Okay. So has she been staying home with the kids? Or does she work as well?

Speaker 2 No, she works. She works a part-time job, so she is the main breadwinner.
She works part-time. They have three, well, four children.

Speaker 2 Three are also diagnosed with ADHD, so there's a lot of doctor's appointments and things like that. And this job affords her to be able to just take off whenever she needs.

Speaker 1 Yeah, so what's their current financial situation? Because you said that it wasn't great. There had been some mistakes.
So where are they financially?

Speaker 2 Yes. Well, right now,

Speaker 2 they are about $600 short a month to make their bills, and that's all the bills. But they have, you know, like credit cards.

Speaker 2 They have just a high, their rent is very high.

Speaker 2 So,

Speaker 2 you know, even when he is making his full check, they're still short, maybe $100 or $2 a month. So when I say six, I'm talking about all the other things that are not needed.

Speaker 2 like the credit cards and things like that and the high phone high cell phone bills, stuff like that.

Speaker 1 Okay. Okay.

Speaker 3 So what are you, when you talk to the wife, when you talk to the wife, what are you guys talking about? Like in your mind, what does help look like?

Speaker 2 Well, in our mind,

Speaker 2 we're looking at the four walls, just to keep them in their home, utilities. They have to have internet so children can do homework, things like that.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 3 they're $200 away from four walls is what you're saying.

Speaker 2 Yes, yes. And that's when his short-term disability kicks in, it won't even be his full check.
I think it's like 80%.

Speaker 2 And I, you know, like I said, I don't know how long that's going to be.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 3 There's usually an elimination period, and he should be able to look into what that is before it begins.

Speaker 3 So that's the terminology that you want to look for

Speaker 3 to find out when that's going to start to pay out. And so after he does start to get half of his pay,

Speaker 3 will they be fine financially or do you still sniff out that there could be issues?

Speaker 2 Oh, no,

Speaker 2 there'll still be issues.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that won't, they won't be able to

Speaker 2 sustain themselves, right? And we're willing to help them. I mean, my husband are financially, you know, debt-free, things like that, thanks to Dave's program.

Speaker 2 But I guess for us, it's we you know, we need them to communicate more about their finances. My son's very

Speaker 2 spender,

Speaker 2 and she's very quiet and humble, but doesn't tell him no when it comes to the overspending.

Speaker 3 Can I butt in for a second?

Speaker 1 Sure.

Speaker 3 What I want to ask is, did they come to you for help?

Speaker 3 And what do you think they would be doing if you weren't kind of inserting yourself into this? How do you think that they would handle this?

Speaker 3 Because there's part of this where I'm going, okay, you're a mom, like you're

Speaker 3 trying to do what's best for these, you know, kids in quotes where you know obviously they're fully grown But then there's part of me that's going Did they ask for help?

Speaker 3 Are they asking you to step in and do they have a plan?

Speaker 1 And they have to want to help themselves too like you said I think that their rent is too high So regardless and I don't want this to sound insensitive regardless if you have depression or not math is math so like you know so whether he gets a job where he makes more to sustain the rent, that's one thing, but it's not sounding like that's going to be probably in the cards for them recently.

Speaker 1 So they have to have some grown-up conversations conversations within themselves. And I think, you know, I mean, I guess it's okay if you help facilitate some of that or ask some questions, I guess.

Speaker 1 But there does have to be a point that this can be an endless cycle for you continuing to come in and rescue and rescue and rescue.

Speaker 1 And so I would want them, again, I think to Jade's point, I think the ideal solution whenever a parent comes down and helps an adult child is that the adult child is very acknowledges and is aware of the reality of what is going on.

Speaker 1 And they say, okay, you know, for six months, there's a timeline.

Speaker 1 Like, there's some things in place, some boundaries that make all of this, like, make this a gift where it's all a blessing and it doesn't end up being a spiraling curse.

Speaker 1 But it sounds like she's in the clouds.

Speaker 3 Yes. He's sick.

Speaker 1 You're looking in the outside, wanting to come in and be like, I don't want you guys to be behind on rent, which is understandable.

Speaker 1 But there is a point that I think if you're going to go down this road to help them financially, I think it would be your responsibility then to at least communicate out loud some boundaries and can communicate what you're seeing too,

Speaker 1 because you're not going to be able to help them forever. They do have to make some decisions in their life, right?

Speaker 3 And one of those decisions could be the wife having to pick up full-time work because

Speaker 3 operating at a deficit.

Speaker 3 If they don't have savings, if they're dependent on credit cards, like it sounds like they are, this is going to make a bad situation worse very quickly. And I think you know that, but

Speaker 3 that would be a big piece of advice, advice not you trying to fill the gaps for them

Speaker 2 oh yeah that's absolutely right and we've been watching this for years to be honest it's just this is the first time that we've ever really done anything financially we have not in the past because we've had conversations before but I think you know there's some neurodiversity things going on like she's not diagnosed autistic but she is supposed to be going to get tested for that because there's no pushback.

Speaker 2 There's no conversation. He blows off, you know, he goes off the handle.
She doesn't know how to handle conflict. So it's...

Speaker 3 How long have they been married?

Speaker 2 Yeah, 15 years. It's been 15 years.
So, you know, I feel like there's more that needs to be done because we talk to what, you know, we've talked to them and

Speaker 2 they've lived in government housing before. So they pulled themselves out.
So they have done it in the past.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And I think, you know, when there is a diagnose, you know, something, you know, whether it's a mental sickness, a physical sickness, right?

Speaker 1 I think that, you know, having someone alongside you is such a gift. And I don't, I don't push that away necessarily.

Speaker 1 But then there is a point that they have to be able to see the reality too for themselves of what's going on. It sounds like they're not there yet post this diagnosis or after.
So,

Speaker 1 so yeah, that's a hard, a hard line to draw for sure. But thanks for the call.

Speaker 1 Well, our Ramsey Cash giveaway is here. And we do this, I don't know, a couple of times a year.
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Speaker 1 And again, ramseysolutions.com slash giveaway to enter the $10,000 giveaway. All right, up next, we have Scott in Albuquerque.
Hey, Scott, welcome to the show.

Speaker 2 Hi. Thank you for taking my phone call.
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 My wife and I are both expecting in April, May time frame of next year.

Speaker 1 Oh my gosh, congratulations.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And we just have a question regarding whether or not to pay off our mortgage early. So I'm going to give you guys a little bit of background.

Speaker 2 We're both 30.

Speaker 2 We have a take-home of about a little bit over $10,000 a month after 25% put into the 401k, health insurance, and all that stuff. So we have three pots of high-yield savings accounts.

Speaker 2 The first one is a year's worth of emergency fund. And I'll give you some more background on why we did a year.
And that's about $65,000.

Speaker 2 We saved $12,000 on the second pot for like a new baby fund kind of thing. And then we also, the last one, it's about $110,000 sitting in cash.

Speaker 1 Very good. Mortgage.
Very good.

Speaker 2 And we have also maxed out our Roth IRAs for the year as well.

Speaker 1 So, what do you owe on the mortgage? What's left?

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's 200K at 3.25%.

Speaker 2 So the question we have is: what would

Speaker 2 you all advise on paying off that $110 into our mortgage?

Speaker 2 And then we would obviously continue to do that in 18 months and we would probably pay off everything

Speaker 2 or invest it given that our mortgage rates are so low. And then the second question is, what does

Speaker 2 Dave and his team say about

Speaker 2 paying off mortgage early with a newborn coming?

Speaker 3 I mean, technically, we would say if you had debt, if you were in baby step two or even baby step three, we would say, hey, pause like all the paying of the debt and just stack up money for the baby, right?

Speaker 3 But you don't have debt and you've already saved up $12,000 for the baby, which I'm guessing is a deductible or how did you arrive at $12,000?

Speaker 2 That's probably deductible and just like. starting up a baby room,

Speaker 2 birthing fund, all that kind of stuff. Yeah.

Speaker 2 All that stuff for the first couple of months.

Speaker 3 I think because you have that money there, you've got over a year, like you've got a year's worth of emergency fund. I would not push pause on what you're doing.
I'd keep doing what you're doing.

Speaker 3 And in this case, it sounded like, if I understood you correctly, you're already investing more than 15%. I think you said 25%.

Speaker 3 And so

Speaker 3 technically where you're at right now, the focus should be the mortgage.

Speaker 3 I'd probably back the 25% down to 15% and I'd put all of that extra margin or whatever you and your wife determine is a reasonable amount of extra payments on the mortgage.

Speaker 3 And yeah, if you have 110 in cash that you've earmarked for paying off the mortgage, I would 100% do that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and throw it at the principal of the mortgage. I mean, I would do that.
I would do that today. Thanks, guys.
I mean, because God, that gets you guys down to 90,000.

Speaker 1 And then to Jade's point, if you guys even, you know, take 10% more of your income from that 25% to 15, that's more cash going in.

Speaker 1 And then I, you probably, you guys are savers, so you probably won't do this, but I would even take that 65 down. I don't think you need 65,000.

Speaker 1 You could take that down to even 40 if you wanted to throw an extra 25 at the mortgage.

Speaker 1 Because what's crazy, Scott, is like, if you think about, well, how many, how much is your mortgage payment a month?

Speaker 2 It's about $1,700. And the reason why we have a year's worth of emergency fund is

Speaker 2 earlier in the year, we experienced

Speaker 2 a miscarriage. So going into this pregnancy, we're both, you know, scared to death and we're, you know, knock on wood, don't want to have any conversations or anything like that.

Speaker 2 But the reason why we have, you know, that pig cushion is in the event that something happens, you know, we have the money to cover ourselves.

Speaker 1 Okay. Okay.
Yeah. Which is very understandable.
So yeah. So that's,

Speaker 1 yeah, that's great if you want to do that.

Speaker 1 I just, um, the point of paying the mortgage off early, because there's a lot of, you know, people have a lot of opinions about this because you could put it in the market and make more than because if you have a low interest rate on the mortgage, I mean, we hear all these, you know, kind of pushbacks against this.

Speaker 1 But the, but the wild thing is when you don't have a mortgage payment and you literally owe no one anything, I mean, you think about that $1,700 instead of going to the bank, you just invested that every month, right?

Speaker 1 I mean, you can actually start to play out and see mathematically how this fast forwards you so quickly. So, so yeah, I would definitely take the 110.

Speaker 1 I'd put it towards the mortgage. And then from there, if you guys want to keep the 65, you can do that for sure.

Speaker 3 But let me, let me throw this at you because if you're, if your thought is, hey, we're going to have a year's worth of expenses because God forbid something happens and maybe we want to take X amount of months off for mental health, right?

Speaker 3 If your mortgage is paid off, you don't have payments anyway. And that eliminates one of your biggest line items out of your budget.

Speaker 3 And so, even if you were to take a lot of time off, your cost of living would be so much lower because of it. So, there's some math to be done, you know, to really think through that.

Speaker 3 Because I'd hate to have that money just sitting there when you could have a paid off mortgage.

Speaker 2 Excellent. Thank you.

Speaker 1 Yep, absolutely, Scott. Thanks for the call.
Up next, we have Lloyd in Raleigh. Hey, Lloyd, welcome to the show.

Speaker 2 Hello.

Speaker 1 Hello. Thanks for calling in.
How can we help?

Speaker 2 I'm 65 years old. I'll be 66 in four months.
Retired.

Speaker 2 And right now I'm living off of my 401k.

Speaker 2 And I wonder, would I be better off to go ahead and start drawing Social Security and let the 401k

Speaker 2 you know, gain value.

Speaker 1 Yeah. How much would you be getting a month from Social Security right now?

Speaker 2 Approximately $2,000.

Speaker 1 $2,000.

Speaker 1 And how much is in your 401k?

Speaker 2 About $2,200,000.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, I would. I would go ahead and I would go ahead and pull it.
Because, I mean, the longer you

Speaker 1 don't pull on the Social Security, the more you will get.

Speaker 1 But at that point in life, if you've taken it early and you're able to live off of that and not touch the 401k, that's just going to continue to grow. how much is your expenses a month

Speaker 2 uh bare bones sixteen seventeen hundred dollars a month okay yeah did i i just want to make sure i understood you did you say your 401k is twenty two thousand

Speaker 3 what's in the 401k

Speaker 3 20 000 20 000

Speaker 3 220 000 220 000 okay you were cutting up i was breaking up i was like i was missing that very important first two Okay.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 So good. So, yes, Lloyd, I mean, I, I would, I would start drawing on that now and use it to your benefit because, I mean, it's there.

Speaker 1 And again, some people argue, well, just if you keep it in there longer, you'll get more later. But I would rather be using that money than

Speaker 1 pulling from my 401k. Are you able just to pull from the growth of your 401k, Lloyd, or are you touching the principal part of it?

Speaker 2 Using the principal.

Speaker 3 Okay. Then definitely what Rachel said.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I would definitely pull that social security and live off that. And well done, Lloyd.

Speaker 1 I mean, that's

Speaker 1 that's a significant, yeah, but you, I mean, you've gotten to a point of

Speaker 1 what most people dream of of having, you know,

Speaker 1 $220,000 in your 401k and you're retired and doing it. Do you have any debt?

Speaker 2 Maybe $3,000 in credit card debt.

Speaker 1 Okay. That's it.

Speaker 3 And your house is paid off?

Speaker 2 Oh, yes.

Speaker 3 Excellent.

Speaker 1 Well done, Lloyd. That's great.

Speaker 1 Wonderful. Well, thanks for the call.
Yep, that's what I would do. And

Speaker 1 enjoy that retirement. You worked hard for it, Lloyd.
Thanks for the call. This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I am Rachel Cruz, hosting this hour with Jade Warshaw.
So give us a call at 888-825-5225.

Speaker 1 And we're here to answer your questions. Up next, we have Sarah in Atlanta.
Hey, Sarah, welcome to to the show.

Speaker 2 Hi, how are you? Thank you for taking my call.

Speaker 1 Absolutely. How can we help?

Speaker 2 I pretty much don't even know where to really start.

Speaker 2 So I've been married for less than three years.

Speaker 2 And I've worked for everything that I have and nothing was given to me.

Speaker 2 And when I got married,

Speaker 2 my net worth was a little over a million.

Speaker 2 but that did

Speaker 2 consist of most money in retirement and equity in a fee rental properties.

Speaker 2 My fiancé at the time, now a husband,

Speaker 2 did not have as much as I did, which was fine.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 so we had decided to get a prenup and whatever he came in with, I matched. And then anything else in excess of that was to go to our children.

Speaker 3 What'd he come in with?

Speaker 2 He came in with $160,000.

Speaker 3 So you were at a million net worth, and he was at 160 net worth?

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Whose idea was the prenup?

Speaker 3 Mine. Okay.

Speaker 3 Keep going.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 fast forward

Speaker 2 Fast forward,

Speaker 2 I'm making a great income. He's making a great income.
I've always been a saver just naturally, very, always, you know, lived below my means.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 things just begun, like, just not making any sense.

Speaker 2 And my husband owns his own business, and I just started seeing our accounts getting lower and lower and lower when I believe our accounts should have been getting higher and higher.

Speaker 2 So I said, hey, you know, like, what's going on? And

Speaker 2 his response was, oh, you know, I just haven't done the paperwork you know for taxes and said that he filed the tax extension so

Speaker 2 you know so it's taking money out of his savings until he goes through his paperwork so he can know what he has to pay exactly I said okay

Speaker 2 several months went by and I still notice these things going down and things just don't make sense to me

Speaker 2 something in particular happened and I said I pretty much said

Speaker 2 are you sure everything's okay he said Yeah.

Speaker 2 I asked them to please let me see his account, his business account where he said all the money was.

Speaker 2 And that's when he admitted to me that he has

Speaker 2 that

Speaker 2 he has been stealing from his words were

Speaker 2 from us, from me, and is a fraud.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 needless to say,

Speaker 2 dove into everything,

Speaker 2 and he has completely wiped us out

Speaker 2 our savings,

Speaker 2 everything.

Speaker 2 We now only have two months of emergency fund. We have two very small children,

Speaker 2 two under two.

Speaker 1 Uh-huh.

Speaker 3 So wiped us out. When you say he wiped out your savings, how much did you have saved? And he was just funneling it to keep his business afloat? Is that what you're saying? So

Speaker 2 we had over $100,000 in savings.

Speaker 2 He also

Speaker 2 took from me personally $286,000.

Speaker 3 Out of where?

Speaker 2 Just various accounts that I had that were deemed as premarital

Speaker 2 that weren't supposed to be touched.

Speaker 3 And what did he use that money for?

Speaker 2 So I just went through everything, and there is no addictions. There's no other woman.
There's nothing like that.

Speaker 2 So then when I dove into things, so it turns out that he actually, the lies began when we were dating. And he actually lied on his prenup.
And the $160,000 that he even came in with were

Speaker 2 tied to loans

Speaker 2 and lines of credit from his business.

Speaker 3 So he just said that this is how much credit I have.

Speaker 3 it's not real net worth.

Speaker 2 I didn't know that.

Speaker 1 But that's what he just admitted to you, though, recently. So yeah.

Speaker 3 So really he came in with zero.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 he lied on a

Speaker 1 legal document.

Speaker 3 So he lied on a legal document too.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. When did all this happen, Sarah? How long ago?

Speaker 2 About two months ago. Okay.

Speaker 2 And I have to say, I'm still in shock.

Speaker 1 Sure.

Speaker 2 Sure.

Speaker 3 How's the business doing? Is it going into the business and his business is tanking? Or does he, when you look at his business,

Speaker 1 is there profit?

Speaker 3 And he's just not bringing that back into the personal side.

Speaker 2 No, no. His business is not doing anywhere near as well as it used to or as it was.
And he has been lying about how well it's doing. Wow.
And,

Speaker 2 you know.

Speaker 2 You know, and just, you know, like I'm a budgeter, you know, like if you tell me, hey, you know, only this much money is coming in.

Speaker 2 I'll just, you know, pull out a spreadsheet and say, hey, let's start budgeting. But that's not what happened.
Instead, you know, we're going on vacations. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Instead, we're, you know, doing things like that that we shouldn't be doing

Speaker 2 if you have debt.

Speaker 2 So he's also racked up about $130,000 now in personal debt.

Speaker 3 Can I ask you a question? Because he's not here, so I can't question him in the same way.

Speaker 3 What was the inside of you that made you go, I need to sign a prenup with this guy?

Speaker 3 Was there a red flag already?

Speaker 2 No, it was, no, there wasn't. It was just the fact that our

Speaker 2 that our

Speaker 2 net worth was so vast and different.

Speaker 1 So different. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.
Sarah, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry.
So are you separating from him?

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 2 I feel

Speaker 2 we have two very small children.

Speaker 2 And again, I'm still very much in shock, but we have two very small children. And I know the statistics with

Speaker 2 growing home, going in a home, is, you know, growing up in a home with a broken household. And I don't want that for my children either.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Are you in counseling? They're just so young.

Speaker 3 Are you guys in counseling?

Speaker 1 Will he go? No.

Speaker 2 He said he would go, but to be quite frank, it's not something that we could afford right now.

Speaker 1 Well, if you're going to make this

Speaker 1 the marriage part work, Sarah, you're married to a liar

Speaker 1 and not just a liar like here and there. Like, I mean, this is like a, this is, yeah, this is a, there's, there's something, there's something wrong, deeply, deeply, deeply wrong

Speaker 1 with him. And in the process, he's hurting his family.
And so for you to draw boundaries for yourself does not make you a bad mom.

Speaker 1 I just want to, I just want to give you freedom to do what's best for Sarah in this moment and to,

Speaker 1 for this to be a healthy, longevity, you know, level of a marriage,

Speaker 1 there is a lot of broken, broken, broken pieces. And without a

Speaker 1 professional, I really believe to be in the mix of this and for him to show deep remorse and a pattern of change until you have trust. I'm separating everything today, Sarah, financially.

Speaker 1 You need to protect yourself.

Speaker 1 You need to, your income now goes into a different account with his name nowhere near it. I would contact a lawyer just on the basis of lying about a prenup.

Speaker 1 I would just get some more information to protect yourself and your kids because...

Speaker 2 I have already done most of that, and I'm in the midst of a postnut,

Speaker 2 which he has agreed to.

Speaker 1 Where you go back and

Speaker 1 have like basically a prenup in the middle of the marriage. Is that what that is?

Speaker 1 Changing the prenup to make it correct to where you guys currently currently are?

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 2 No, no.

Speaker 2 Postnump, just reiterating that, like,

Speaker 2 his debt is his debt. And even if I decided to, let's say, help him get out of his debt, that I would not be, you know, I'm expecting to get reimbursed at some point.

Speaker 1 It's not just my responsibility. I hear you.
Yeah. Well, what we find so much often, Sarah, with these,

Speaker 1 I mean, that this, I mean, the level of financial infidelity that you've experienced is the level of an affair.

Speaker 1 I mean, you know, you can, you can put anything in place, but that you start to question yourself.

Speaker 1 I mean, there's so much in that when you are so deeply lied to from the person that you're supposed to be in a marriage with.

Speaker 1 So, I would do what I could. I would have my own therapist.

Speaker 1 I would have him go to therapy if you're going to make this work, but I would also protect yourself until a pattern is proven that he's proven back his trust with finances.

Speaker 1 But for now, I would keep it separate, and you have your stuff.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. So coming off that last call, Jade, that they're, you know, deep, that was, that was a severe case of financial infidelity.
I mean, that was many layers of being

Speaker 1 basically a pathological liar to his wife and the situation, which is just so sad. And we hear, we hear this stuff more and more.

Speaker 1 And, you know, I can hear some of the naysayers like, well, this is why we say separate accounts and, you know, all of that.

Speaker 1 But the, but the truth is, if you're, if you're lying about your money, that's an indication of your character and who you are. And that is going to bleed over into other areas of your life.
And

Speaker 1 so if you can't trust them with your money, then you're not going to be able to trust them as a person. And there's got to be some deep boundaries set in that way.

Speaker 1 And so I don't want that to negate and scare people off with the idea that working together with your money is one of the most beautiful things that you can do in your marriage, that you're on the same team.

Speaker 1 You're doing this together but you can't be a team financially or otherwise in a marriage when another spouse is lying and so that's the point that we draw a line and say okay now that doesn't work so we're separating everything and you have to protect yourself in that situation and um and it's really difficult but again the the financial infidelity can go from that extreme um from debt other accounts lying about income to even just hiding big purchases.

Speaker 1 And we're seeing this a lot. There was an article, Jade, in the Wall Street Journal that says the rise of stealth shopping, how Americans are hiding big purchases from their partners.

Speaker 3 So I've been seeing a lot of this. I saw this Wall Street Journal article.
Then even The Today Show did a whole like segment on it.

Speaker 3 And it's basically they did a survey of a thousand Americans and they found out that nearly two-thirds of people who live with their spouse or significant other are hiding purchases.

Speaker 3 Okay, so two-thirds of them hid purchases over the past year and a quarter of them started out with small things like clothing purchases, right?

Speaker 1 But they said the joke of like the target bag. Yeah.
You know what I mean? Like it's like, oh, yeah.

Speaker 3 But they said that one in 10 manipulated even their financial records to like show that, no, I didn't spend it.

Speaker 3 So you're actually going in there and doctoring credit card statements or, you know, that sort of thing. And so to your point, this is crazy.
So.

Speaker 3 I'll just read a little piece of what people are doing. So they said that they perfected a strategy for sneaking in new clothing, handbags, and shoes.

Speaker 3 She enters through the back door and shoves her packages in the coat closet behind an armoire or in the laundry basket at night when her husband and three sons are asleep she puts away her like everything she got then there's another guy who

Speaker 3 i'm not going to read it on here i read it earlier but there's another guy who anytime he buys new clothing he immediately takes it to the dry cleaners And then when he picks it up from the dry cleaner, it's like in the bag and it looks

Speaker 1 huge.

Speaker 3 It looks like it's been there. So when he walks in, his wife is none the wiser.
And she's like, oh, you just picked up your dry cleaning. Like that is sneaky on a whole nother level.

Speaker 1 For sure.

Speaker 1 And here's the thing, you guys: like, the, I, I, you know, I talked to a lady one time at an event and she was like, all, you know, been out of shape.

Speaker 1 She's like, my husband went to Chick-fil-A four times last week and didn't tell me. You know, and she's all in tears.
I'm like, okay, you need to chill.

Speaker 1 Like, there's a lot of levels of forgetfulness and mistakes and, you know, whatever, fill in the blank. Yeah.
And then there's purposeful, yes, intentional hiding.

Speaker 1 And that's where I would start asking questions. And always my first question is, why? What is the need for that? Yeah.
Why is it hiding?

Speaker 1 Is it because you don't, you and your spouse don't have the money for it? Is it because they would get mad at you? If they would get mad at you, why are they getting mad at you?

Speaker 1 Is that their problem or are you overspending? Like, you start to kind of peel back the layers to understand.

Speaker 1 And that's where people miss so many opportunities, especially in a relationship like this.

Speaker 3 I'm like, I think so too.

Speaker 1 You're not only hiding and being deceitful about it, but also there's something going on and why you're hiding it. And then that's a part of growth.

Speaker 1 Absolutely. Digging into that and facing that, that just allows you to grow as a human.
And I feel like we just push that type of growth away so often.

Speaker 3 Absolutely. And I mean, that's kind of what the author of the article says.
She says, quote, what can seem like harmless white lies can lead to mistrust that

Speaker 3 undermines the relationship. Your partner will say, if you lie about buying shoes, what else are you lying about? Sure.
Which is 100%.

Speaker 3 I mean, it makes me think of that scripture that's, if if you're faithful with a little, you're entrusted with more. Right.
And so it's like, if you can't be faithful with the little truths, right?

Speaker 3 If you can't just tell the truth, then your spouse will not give you more trust. Right.
That's right.

Speaker 3 So you've got to start with being able to say, listen, why can't I tell the truth about something very small?

Speaker 1 Yep. I think it's Dr.
John Zaloni talks about how secrets. are a poison in a relationship.
I mean,

Speaker 1 the secrecy, it is, it does no one any favors. And if anything, it's, it's, it's so harmful.
So

Speaker 1 let's talk about money in marriage because i know that that's coming up in october and i know i'm talking about lies that's right on the money in marriage um event yes yeah our october event it was sold out it got you know it sold out really quickly for the fall we're actually going to do one evening in october um just kind of a one-night event but then our other next big event is on valentine's weekend february 13th through the 15th which we'll do a very similar event that we're doing here in the fall but yeah you're speaking at it yeah and you're talking about lies yeah in that way.

Speaker 3 Because this is a thing, like it really does start to unravel. And to your point, Rachel, the bigger question is why? Why am I doing this?

Speaker 3 And so I'll go through like the reasons that I believe are the why behind it, but stay tuned. You gotta be aware of that.
Oh, that's part of it.

Speaker 1 It's part of the talk. Yeah.
Oh, my gosh. The T's are there.
Yeah. Yeah.
So instead, what we recommend couples doing is you do a budget together.

Speaker 1 Every

Speaker 1 Every spouse, every family, we do family members has a lineup item with a certain amount of money. And within that money, you go and spend.

Speaker 1 And if 18 packages from Amazon show up, Winston just grins and says, well, Rachel, that's out of your category because I'm spending.

Speaker 1 And, but it, but there's a point that you say, okay, I still want my, you know, be an individual and I still have things that I enjoy.

Speaker 1 And I don't feel like I have to ask permission for every little thing, you know, like I bought fashion tape on Monday for my clothes. And I'm like, I don't need to text Winston.

Speaker 1 I'm like, can I spend $6 on Amazon? No,

Speaker 1 that's out of the budget. It's fine.

Speaker 1 So it's not this overly controlling thing when people hear, oh my gosh, you know, you have to share accounts and your spouse, you know, you have to agree on it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's just the agreement, but then you get to go and enjoy your money. So for these people, I'm like, golly, just put a freaking clothing budget

Speaker 1 in the budget and then a line item in the budget and then go and spend and enjoy. Like, that's what it's for.
Here's the thing.

Speaker 3 So there was another, I told you the Today Show also talked about this. Yeah.
And they said,

Speaker 3 so of the people they surveyed, 43% did say, yes, I lie about purchases, but they're lying about purchases that total $435 or more.

Speaker 3 That's pretty significant, but that just goes to show there's also, it's like, I think some of it could be solved with a line item, but there's probably some of it that's like, hey, like, let's be mature about what's a reasonable amount.

Speaker 3 And like for some people's budgets, yeah, fine, $435.

Speaker 3 But there is that line of reasonableness where it's like, okay, if we have a budget, if we're divvying out fund money, make sure it's a reasonable amount for your spouse for your income.

Speaker 3 And it's not just like, you get a $50 allowance, you know, right, wherever

Speaker 3 rights, right.

Speaker 1 But these are big purchases and probably going on credit cards.

Speaker 1 100%. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Well, one of the girls in the article says, so the thing that she does to be, quote, stealthy is so her husband has an American Express card, which pings him anytime she uses.

Speaker 1 The card. The car.

Speaker 3 And she's like, I don't want him to be pinged. Where she has a credit card that he doesn't get pinged.
And the only statement he gets, he doesn't get an itemized statement.

Speaker 3 It's just a full, like, it's, you know, $2,000 or whatever.

Speaker 3 And so she, if he says, man, it seems a little bit high this time, she'll just say, oh, well, life insurance came out.

Speaker 1 And so she can lie about what was on the what made it high. Yes.

Speaker 1 And that's what's that's exhausting. It's exhausting.
And just if you're gonna be living that life that way, then just say, well, yeah, I bought some shoes and I put it on the credit card. Mine up.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Just, yeah, to say it, to say it.
Oh, man.

Speaker 1 This is, it's a big topic, the money and marriage conversation, you guys and it's so hard because money usually the money fights and the money conflict kind of what we're talking about here it's never about that like you you know the yeah it's never about the shoes it's about the lying about the shoes and why do we have to lie and so if you're out there and you you do have a significant other you are married um you know be thinking about this and and and that feeling of oh god i i'm embarrassed to tell my spouse about this purchase or i don't want to tell them about this purchase start asking some questions to yourself of why what what's really going on there?

Speaker 1 Because, again, my encouragement and my challenge always is to push into that.

Speaker 1 Because, again, those are moments that people say, all right, I'm out, separate accounts, let's just do our own thing because that's too painful to go down there. Yeah.

Speaker 1 But that is where the health of a marriage and relationship really starts when you start to feel that, like, okay, I'm actually going to face something that's uncomfortable. So, it's really difficult.

Speaker 1 But if you guys want to check out the Money in Marriage event, make sure to go to ramseysolutions.com slash events. We would love to see you there.
Valentine's Day weekend, couples.

Speaker 1 It's a great, great event, Jade. We'll be there as well.
Well, thanks to all the guys in the booth. Thank you, America.
This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships.

Speaker 1 I am Rachel Cruz, hosting this hour with my friend and best-selling author, Jade Warshaw. And we are answering your questions at 888-825-5225.
So give us a call.

Speaker 1 We'll be talking about your life, your money, your careers, your relationships, anything and everything. So give us a call.
Up first we have Rebecca in Rochester, New York.

Speaker 1 Hey Rebecca, welcome to the show.

Speaker 2 Hi guys, thank you so much for taking my call.

Speaker 1 Absolutely.

Speaker 2 So my husband and I, we're going to be relocating to Florida in November. We are on baby steps six and seven and we're kind of struggling with deciding if we should purchase a home or rent.

Speaker 2 Only reason being is if we're going to rent, it's going to cost us about anywhere from $2,100 to $2,500 a month.

Speaker 2 And just running numbers on a mortgage, we would be paying about the same thing for a mortgage.

Speaker 2 So we're just kind of struggling with deciding with our financial situation what would be best or the smart way to do that.

Speaker 3 What's causing you guys to move? You're just moving for work?

Speaker 2 Yeah, we've always wanted to move there, and we both have jobs jobs lined up. So better opportunities for the both of us.

Speaker 3 I mean, I could definitely understand the idea of if you own a home now, like you see the value in that.

Speaker 3 So wanting to go to Florida and also buy a home, but there's a big part of that where when you make these big moves cross country or even just, you know, to another county, if you don't know the area, it's really hard to make a wise decision because you don't even know what part of the city that you want to live in.

Speaker 3 So in many ways, I would just say get there, get settled, rent for a while until you can learn which areas of town you like and which areas of town, you know, have the best schools and all of those things that really do go into making a good home buying decision.

Speaker 1 Yeah, because buying a house. I've done a lot of research on that too.

Speaker 2 Oh, sorry.

Speaker 1 No, go ahead. Go ahead.
You're good.

Speaker 2 We've been down there a lot the past six months just for my the process for my husband

Speaker 2 transferring his job from here to there.

Speaker 2 So we do have a pretty good idea of where we want to be. I guess it's just the struggle of, you know, if we should jump into it.
Obviously, we don't know if it's going to work out.

Speaker 2 Obviously, the goal is for it to work out and not have to move back home.

Speaker 2 And then also, you know, we're going to be spending $30,000 a year.

Speaker 3 What's the part about it not working out and you having to go back home? What do you mean by that?

Speaker 2 I guess if we just end up not liking it, which I don't see that happening, honestly.

Speaker 3 Interesting.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. I mean, if I were you, Rebecca, I mean, honestly, I would probably just go and

Speaker 1 I'd probably just rent even for six months. Like do it, go do a half a year rent somewhere.

Speaker 1 Put yourself in a storage unit if you need to and just like really feel it out. Let him get, you know, cycled into a new job.
I mean, there's just a lot of change that happens.

Speaker 1 And there's just something about not having the burden of home ownership during all of that. And then just like Jade's saying, then you're able to like look at houses while you're there.

Speaker 1 You can set up appointments with an agent. I mean, you can really do it well instead of doing it from a distance.
And I know, you know, it's just a crazy world.

Speaker 1 I know so many people, even in my own neighborhood, they go sight unseen. Like they're moving to California and they don't even see the house, right?

Speaker 1 Because things are getting, you know, bought up so quickly. So I don't know if the area of Florida you're in, if it's a really competitive part, you know, from the real estate perspective.

Speaker 1 But I still think it's just wise to kind of slow down because your house, it is the largest purchase that majority of people make in their lifetime. And I just want you guys to

Speaker 1 be. extra, extra sure that, yep, this is the area

Speaker 1 we want. We had multiple houses that we were able to look at.
We had good options.

Speaker 1 We picked the right, you know the right spot and just feel really good about it um so yeah i don't i if i were you i'd probably rent for six months to a year just for that process personally even though the money is the same and i get it feels like you're throwing money out the window but you're not you're buying time which is wise and and then you're able to see so that's usually what we tell people if they are um moving to a new city or a new state we say that even if even your first year of marriage don't get into a home if you don't have to right rent for just a little bit and kind of get your feet under you um so these big life changes, I think it just helps to slow down.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and the plan is to outcom sell our house here. I'm in real estate here, and we'll be doing that down there.
Okay, so the market's definitely much different there.

Speaker 2 It's more of a buyer's market than here.

Speaker 2 But the goal would be to sell our house, and then what we need not to put that into a high-yield savings account until we decide to buy because we would probably put that as a down payment.

Speaker 2 Would it be smart to put that full amount as a down payment? I mean, I know

Speaker 3 my whole goal would be to put as much down as possible when the time comes.

Speaker 1 Do you guys have consumer debt?

Speaker 1 We have no debt. No debt.
Yeah. And a good emergency fund, a good fund even for moving expenses and everything to be able to cashflow that.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So we currently have $50,000 in our checking and savings account.
And then my husband will also be getting a $20,000 relocation bonus.

Speaker 2 So the goal would be to put as much more than what we're netting on the house

Speaker 1 down on the new house. That's fantastic.

Speaker 1 You know, the mortgage, when we're doing, you know, the numbers on that, we're like oh my god we're gonna be paying more than like what a mortgage would be sure yeah and it's temporary though yeah it's not forever it's just to buy time and again could save you in essence tens of thousands of dollars versus getting into a yes a home that you know you don't like or or a situation that you got to get out of and then you actually end up losing money because you have to you know do make a different decision a year a year from now right versus if you're not attached to a home you're able to slow down

Speaker 1 right okay well i hope that helps, Rebecca. Thanks.
Thanks for the call. I know this is always a, it's always a tricky, a tricky, uh, a tricky part of life, especially if you're moving.

Speaker 3 Absolutely.

Speaker 3 And I mean, she, you know, she mentioned, and I think a lot of people feel this, well, we've been there before, like we spent time during the interview process, but I'm like, how much time really?

Speaker 3 Like the equivalent of what, 14 days, or it's really not enough time to get a full sense of the area. And it's, I mean,

Speaker 3 even if you say, oh, we really like this area because you spent the most of your time there, there could still be other areas that you don't even know about yet. That's right.
Could be better for you.

Speaker 3 Maybe even less expensive. Like you just, it's hard to know until you really get to a place.

Speaker 3 Plus when you get, you know, into your job, you get into your community, then other people, you start saying, oh, well, they live over there. Like, I like that area.

Speaker 3 And so knowing people also kind of helps you do your research on another level.

Speaker 1 So, yeah, no, for sure. And I even know within Nashville, right? All the different

Speaker 1 neighborhoods. Yeah.
So many pockets.

Speaker 1 And then, you know, and I don't know if they have kids or not, but you know, you get into schools and you get into that whole conversation with different counties and everything.

Speaker 1 And so, yep, Rebecca, I appreciate the call because, again, this is one that we get a lot, you guys. And just remember, renters don't go to hell.
Like, you're going to be okay.

Speaker 1 You're going to be okay if you rent. And why is you time? People just feel like, oh, my gosh, this is so unwise because I'm just throwing money down the drain.
I know it can feel like that.

Speaker 1 Again, I get that because it's not going towards equity. It's not going towards anything.
but it's giving you time and patience.

Speaker 1 And for a short period of time, that is one of the best moves that you can make.

Speaker 3 And the truth is they still have to sell their current residence. Like, that's right.

Speaker 3 That's a big piece of the puzzle for them to buy the next house, especially if they're talking about, you know, using that money for a down payment. So,

Speaker 3 take your time is the

Speaker 1 that's the advice. Yes, because when you guys moved here, what did you because you guys moved from Florida?

Speaker 3 We moved from Florida, but I'd lived here before. Oh, that's right.

Speaker 1 That's right. That's it.
A long time.

Speaker 3 So I knew the area. So we did buy pretty much immediately.
But I forgot you had.

Speaker 1 Yes. But

Speaker 1 I'd lived here. Yes, that's right.
That's right. I forgot.
I forgot about that. No, it is.
It's it's a big, it's a big decision, you guys. So, the housing situation, slow down.

Speaker 1 Yes, make sure again that you have a good down payment if you're a first-time home buyer. 5%,

Speaker 1 you can at least have, but even up to 20% to avoid PMI. Yeah, yeah, making sure it's not a big part of your paycheck, you know, 25%.

Speaker 1 We love a 15-year mortgage around here, and so just making sure that all of those elements are lined up, and then that way your home is a blessing, not a curse. This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Today's question of the day is brought to you by YReFi. So if you have private student loan debts and it's taking away your peace of mind and you don't see any way out, you need YReFi.

Speaker 1 YReFi refinances defaulted private student loans that other places will not touch and gives you a low fixed rate loan that you can, again, it's built just for you, specifically for you.

Speaker 1 So if you go to yrefi.com/slash slash Ramsey today, again, that's the letter Y,

Speaker 1 R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey may not be available in all states.

Speaker 3 All right. Today's question comes from Layla in Pennsylvania.

Speaker 3 She says, I finally got my husband on board with the baby steps, and we have done well communicating and holding each other accountable in pursuit of our goal.

Speaker 3 The one thing that both of us consistently overspend on is our kids. Daycare is an expensive, I'm sorry, daycare is an expense we budget for, but beyond that, we struggle.

Speaker 3 My husband buys them toys and takes them to the movies. And I find myself gravitating towards extracurricular activities to make up for lost time due to my busy work schedule.

Speaker 3 How do we determine how to budget for our children and their activities and what is or isn't necessary for the kids in this phase of our life? I mean, for me, this... I go back to what you said.

Speaker 3 We're making each other accountable in pursuit of our goal. And so

Speaker 3 I don't, you know, you don't mention anything about debt or anything like that. So I don't know what baby step you're in.
And did I miss it? Nope. You don't say what baby step you're in.

Speaker 3 So I'll kind of phase it in a couple of different ways. If you're in debt, then the number one goal should be to get out of debt.
Right.

Speaker 3 And so if that's the case, then I would say, okay, daycare, yeah, that's expensive. It's necessary.
And so that stays on the budget. But there's some things that are not going to be necessary.

Speaker 3 And I'm all for, you know, with kids, maybe having a little line item for entertainment because kids are kids and they do want to do, you know, things, but you also don't tell me how old the kids are.

Speaker 3 And I'm like, if you have like really under two years old,

Speaker 1 they, they don't know.

Speaker 3 Like I was the first person to say when your child turns like one and a half years old, you could literally, or like one years old, you could literally wrap up an old toy and put it under the Christmas tree and they would never even know.

Speaker 3 Like

Speaker 3 so there's a layer to this where it depends on what baby step you're in. It depends on how old your kids are.

Speaker 3 And it also depends on your scope of like some people would say to go $10 over budget is like, wow, like we've just gone crazy. And other people have the margin where it's like, okay, I went 10 over.

Speaker 3 I can be flexible in another area. And so there's a lot of nuance to this that we don't get in the question.

Speaker 3 But I think just by kind of spreading it out and thinking through it like that, Rachel, she should be able to find herself in one of those categories to see, okay, have we gone totally crazy?

Speaker 3 Are we reasonable? Is it something that we just need to just add to the budget? Yep. Because, you know, we're in baby step four, five, and six.
So that's really the way you need to think through this.

Speaker 1 That's great. All right.
Let's go to the phones. We have Rick in Tampa.
Hey, Rick. Welcome to the show.

Speaker 2 Hi, ladies. Thank you for taking my call.

Speaker 1 Absolutely. How can we help?

Speaker 2 So I just came across the Ramsey's videos yesterday.

Speaker 1 Oh, wow.

Speaker 2 So I have been listening and listening and listening. And I'm 55.
I'm married. I have two young children, preteens.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 both my wife and I work.

Speaker 2 And we're about,

Speaker 2 I'm taking a guess, about $125,000 in debt. Our income, combined income that we bring home,

Speaker 2 or gross, should I say, is roughly about $145,000.

Speaker 2 So I don't have any student loan. My wife doesn't have student loans.

Speaker 3 What kind of debt is the 125?

Speaker 2 Can you itemize it? It's mainly

Speaker 2 we rent. We live in Florida.
We rent. So, my rent is like two grand.

Speaker 1 Okay, but that's not debt.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 I know. But we have two cars

Speaker 2 and I have two motorcycles.

Speaker 1 How much do you owe on all those?

Speaker 1 50

Speaker 1 80.

Speaker 3 can you go through like the first car what do you owe

Speaker 2 so the first car i owe so a lot of this is during covet when we bought um because covet really screwed us up financially

Speaker 2 um so the first car is about 30 grand

Speaker 2 the value um

Speaker 2 is 11.

Speaker 1 okay

Speaker 1 yikes Is what they're saying. What about the next car?

Speaker 2 And then the next car I had to get after I had a car accident, my car got totaled. I went lower

Speaker 2 just to try and find a car for work.

Speaker 2 So I think I owe like 26. I think the value is like

Speaker 1 15.

Speaker 1 How'd that happen?

Speaker 3 If your car was totaled and then they gave you a payout for you to go and get another car.

Speaker 2 The guy that, no,

Speaker 2 because the car that I had was upside down. And the guy that hit me,

Speaker 2 no license, no registration, no insurance.

Speaker 1 Got you. Oh my gosh.
Okay. What about the motorcycles?

Speaker 2 So the motorcycles, I have a friend of mine. He took both of them.
He's making the payments on them. So they're kind of out of sight, out of mind.

Speaker 3 But they're in your name?

Speaker 2 They're in my name.

Speaker 1 How much do you owe on those?

Speaker 1 40.

Speaker 1 What are they worth?

Speaker 2 Probably

Speaker 2 30. Okay.

Speaker 3 Oh my goodness. So what we're learning here, like what I want people to learn who are listening is vehicles are depreciating assets.
They go down in value.

Speaker 3 And we're seeing this in real time with four different vehicles. Things with motors in them go down in value.

Speaker 3 And you're feeling this in a really hard way. What other debt do you have?

Speaker 2 So we have

Speaker 2 credit card debt. It's not that much.
Maybe, you know,

Speaker 2 $6,000, $7,000.

Speaker 2 I have hospital bills because of the accident.

Speaker 1 Okay. How much are those?

Speaker 2 Probably three grand.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 3 How are you doing now after the accident? Are you still working? Everything's not good.

Speaker 2 I'm forcing myself to work. I don't have a choice.

Speaker 3 And you're in pain?

Speaker 2 My level is like a 10 every day. My life has to help me up out of bed, get to work.

Speaker 1 Oh, Rick. I'm so sorry.
Yeah. What kind of job? What kind of

Speaker 1 career are you in?

Speaker 2 I drive a truck. I do flatbed work.

Speaker 1 Is there a plan for you in the near future to maybe exit that type of career and do something that's less physical?

Speaker 2 I want to and I can.

Speaker 2 The problem is, is that I have guaranteed pay. So I have 40 hours plus 10 hours of guaranteed overtime.
And once I take a

Speaker 2 40-hour job, automatically I'm going to lose about $1,900 a month just in overtime pay.

Speaker 3 So of the $145 income,

Speaker 3 what portion of that is your income?

Speaker 2 About $90,000. Okay.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Well, for the short term, Rick, who when you said, yeah, the car is worth $11,000, that's what they said. Who is they?

Speaker 1 Tell me Blue Book. Okay.
Okay. So you did do Kelly.
Okay. Now that's great.
Because

Speaker 1 a private sale, you're always going to get more than going to a dealership.

Speaker 1 Right. So, yeah, for you guys, you are

Speaker 1 definitely way over the suggested amount when it comes to having things with, you know, we say wheels, motors.

Speaker 1 We want that to be half of your annual income.

Speaker 1 And you guys, from my calculations with the motorcycles, which I know you're not counting in your head because the friend has them, but it's still under your name, it's around $116,000.

Speaker 1 So you guys are way over, way over in car.

Speaker 1 And so if I were you, I mean, this is where I would really, and it's going to hurt financially because there is a point that

Speaker 1 some of these, I think there's one, maybe one,

Speaker 1 maybe your car I may keep and try to pay off. But the others, I mean, honestly, the $30,000 and the motorcycles, Rick, I mean, I would sell them to your friend if he wants them.
I'm trying to.

Speaker 1 Okay, good, good, good, good.

Speaker 2 So I'm trying to sell them to him.

Speaker 1 Okay, that's great. Yep.
And you're just going to have to take out a loan for the difference on some of these. But I'd rather have a $10,000 loan on a car versus a $26,000 loan.

Speaker 1 And you guys are going to have to, yeah,

Speaker 1 scrape up some money and really, you know, replace that car for you. I think is going to be one of the biggest things.
And then you and your wife, I want you to sit down and do a budget, Rick.

Speaker 1 Stay on the line. Kelly's going to pick up.

Speaker 1 We're going to give you every dollar premium because I want you guys to sit down and know where exactly every single dollar of your paycheck's going that's going to help you on this debt payoff.

Speaker 1 We're always thankful for the listeners of the show, the people that view it on YouTube and watch us.

Speaker 1 But one of the best ways to help spread the word is to share the show with the people that you know, your friends, your family, even on your social media feeds.

Speaker 1 But, you know, even subscribing, leaving reviews, all of that helps because with the algorithms of today, when you're able to get the show in front of people that may not know about it, just like our last caller, he just said he just found us like two days ago on YouTube.

Speaker 1 Yeah, or on Facebook, is that what it was said? And yeah, and it's just, it's great because we want to be able to help people. That's our goal for the show.

Speaker 1 And the more people we can help, the better we're doing at our jobs, the way we look at it. So thank you again, you guys, for subscribing and sharing.

Speaker 1 We really, really really appreciate it all right up next we have wanda in los angeles hey wanda welcome to the show hi thank you so much it's really a pleasure to be on the show thank you for taking my call so

Speaker 2 i do apologize if i'm hot for verbal is the excitement and the coffee coupled together

Speaker 1 you're good wanda you're great how can we help

Speaker 2 So I recently got a divorce and I owe my husband $50,000 and I'm not quite sure where to take the money from or borrow the money from for the $50,000. I don't have any money in my savings.

Speaker 2 I owe $25,000 on my car, $12,000 to my 401k and my other expense is my home and my mortgage is $24.70 a month.

Speaker 2 I looked into refinancing. I really don't want to refinance my house because my interest rate on my house is two and a quarter.

Speaker 2 And so I've been looking at other like HELOC, personal loans, like personal loan is like 12%,

Speaker 2 the HELOC is 10%.

Speaker 2 And I just don't know

Speaker 1 why.

Speaker 3 Yeah, 50,000, is it because of the house? Like, are you supposed to give him the equity?

Speaker 2 Yes, I'm supposed to give him the equity out of the house. Originally, I was supposed to give him $150,000, but he knows that he didn't put any money into the house or anything like that.

Speaker 2 So he settled and said, I'll take $50,000. So I'm just trying to figure out the best course to give him the 50,000.
I did take on a second job.

Speaker 2 I've been working the second job now for about three months. I haven't received any monies for it because I just haven't turned in the invoices.
Sure. Because

Speaker 3 what's the time frame that you owe the 50K?

Speaker 2 It's supposed to be because we went back to court. So it's 30 days after the court ruling.

Speaker 2 And I got the court ruling in the mail two weeks ago.

Speaker 3 So I have, yeah yeah so in two basically in two to three weeks it's due yes

Speaker 1 okay um

Speaker 3 so let me kind of set the stage for this right quick is his name on the mortgage like is he on the deed or the title of the house it is so typically Typically, what would happen if you're divorced, you would do a refinance to get his name off of it, and you would do a cash out refinance so that you could also pull the 50K out, give him his money, and now you're free and clear from that.

Speaker 3 But I see why you don't want to do that because of the interest rate. But I now double check this because

Speaker 3 I'm not sure. But I feel like you can, when you refinance, you don't necessarily have to refinance the entire

Speaker 1 mortgage.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Yeah.
But just the amount that you're...

Speaker 1 A portion of it. Yes.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 And so a portion of it would be at the old interest rate and a portion of it would be at the new interest new interest rate.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Have you talked to your lawyer, Wanda, about different options?

Speaker 1 Considering it's because of the house and his name is on it, so you are going to have to get his name off the home. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 So what I was advised was, I actually talked to

Speaker 2 the accountant. And so what I was advised to do was to do a quick deed to take his name off the title.
And if he agrees to stay on the loan, let his name stay on the loan.

Speaker 2 Because if I ask him to take his name off the loan, they may make me refinance anyways, and then I lose the two and a quarter.

Speaker 2 And so he said he was agreeable with his name being on the loan and he would just quick deed the home into my name.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 A quick deed is definitely a great option when it comes to the situation. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean, I mean, and we never tell people to go and take on debt, but there is a point that you're you're going to be owed this from a legal standpoint.

Speaker 1 And so you, you, I mean, you, you have to give that money. And Wanda, you don't have it right now.

Speaker 1 And so I don't want to see you take equity out of your home and get into that mess of a HELOC or anything like that. So it may just have to be a personal loan.

Speaker 2 Okay. Even though the interest rate for the personal loans is just through the roof.

Speaker 1 Well, my, I mean, from the court of law, you have to give this money.

Speaker 1 So either, Wanda, you sell your home and, you know what I mean, take the take the equity and pay him what he's due, and you have to go find a new situation.

Speaker 1 Are you able to sustain the home that you're in?

Speaker 2 Oh, most definitely.

Speaker 1 Most definitely.

Speaker 1 Definitely.

Speaker 2 Yeah. The house is now worth almost $700,000.
When we purchased the house, it was at $391,000.

Speaker 1 And so I'm going to go. How much do you owe on it? How much do you owe on it?

Speaker 2 $360,000.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 And in California, I can't buy another house at $391,000 and not in the area that I live in anyway.

Speaker 1 Sure, sure.

Speaker 1 How much do you make? How much are you making?

Speaker 2 I make $188,000 a year.

Speaker 1 Good for you, Wanda. And you're bringing,

Speaker 1 how much are you bringing home after taxes and insurance and everything per month? What's your take-home pay?

Speaker 2 A little over $6,000.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I mean, and your mortgage payment's $2,000.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So you're in.

Speaker 2 And that's the reason why I got a second job, too, because whatever I do, I want to chop it down. With the second job, I just haven't received any, because I don't know which way to go with that yet.

Speaker 1 100%. Yeah.
I mean, I mean.

Speaker 1 I mean, you're kind of stuck between, you know, a hard place. I don't want you to make a bad decision with your home.
I think that would be unwise.

Speaker 1 So it's not this idea that, like, you know, and it's one thing if you couldn't afford the payment on your income, but you're able to sustain that, which is wonderful, great.

Speaker 1 Um, but yeah, I would, I would, yeah, do the, yeah, do the quick deed. I would, again, ask, ask the accountant again, wrap back around and just ask what Jade was talking about.

Speaker 1 And if there's a way to take a portion of it

Speaker 1 where you're able to pay him out of it,

Speaker 1 um,

Speaker 1 and the entire loan is not then, you know, subject to the new interest rates, because that would be, that, that would not be smart.

Speaker 3 And it's a blessing that he dropped from $150,000 to $50,000.

Speaker 3 That's a big blessing.

Speaker 1 So, Wanda, I mean, I'm looking at this. So, let's just say

Speaker 1 you have $50,000 in debt because of the divorce. You got a $25,000 car and you got a $12,000 401k debt.

Speaker 1 7, 8, I mean, that's, yeah, that's $87,000. You make $188,000.
I want you to pay this off in 18 months, Wanda.

Speaker 2 That's why I got a second job.

Speaker 1 Yeah, which I'm so proud of you. You're seriously.

Speaker 1 So do it. Yeah.
And that's the thing is, you know, that

Speaker 1 when you look at this high income, I'm like, man, this is, and I know you're in Southern California, so it doesn't go as far as it would in Kansas City or something. I get it.

Speaker 1 But man, you have a lot on your side, Wanda. But from this point forward, I want you to draw that line in the sand.
and say, no more, I'm not doing car payments. We're not doing credit cards.

Speaker 1 We're not, you know, borrowing an R401K. I am living on what I make.
I'm going to be funding retirement. I mean, why? It's because, I mean, how old are you, Wanda? 55.
55. Yeah.
So 55 this year.

Speaker 1 Right. So, yeah, here in five to 10 years wanting to retire, you know, and do something with your life.

Speaker 1 And you're, you're going to be able to make a lot of progress really quickly, which I'm, I'm so excited for you. So congratulations.

Speaker 1 I'm so sorry that it, that, you know, with the divorce and everything that's kind of brought you to this point, that's always heartbreaking and grief in and of itself. That's, um, that's so hard.
But,

Speaker 1 but you have a lot, a lot of great change ahead and a lot of things that, yeah, that you can do and make a big, a big impact.

Speaker 3 Thank goodness that he was a good guy and was like, I know I didn't put any money into this house. Right.

Speaker 1 It could have been 150. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 I mean, that's, I think that's the really difficult part about one of the many difficult parts about divorce is there's all these assets and it's like somebody gets to keep the house.

Speaker 3 But if you've been living in that house together, there's also a portion of it that goes to the other spouse. And so how do they get their money? And so

Speaker 3 that's one of the frustrating things. And I know like during these times where interest rates, it's like, if I had it at, you know, 2.3%,

Speaker 3 you don't want to refinance in order to with these rates. And so I think that's very painful.

Speaker 1 Yes, for sure. Yep.
And again, it's one of these things that to tackle the debt snowball method.

Speaker 1 And even looking at the car, I mean, she's still, she can pay off her car in 18, 12 to 18 months, which is kind of our, you know, buffer. So she can keep the car, pay it off.

Speaker 1 It's not an outrageous, you know, different amount considering her income.

Speaker 3 But she never needs to borrow from her 401k, ever again. No.
Wanda, you hear me

Speaker 1 thanks for calling in this is the ramsey show

Speaker 1 welcome back to the ramsey show so one of the parts of winning with money is being intentional that's right and the way to be intentional and really specific and detailed with your money is to do a budget and we tell people regardless of where you are financially A budget is there to help you win.

Speaker 1 So whether you are drowning in debt, you need a budget. Whether you're completely debt-free and you're doing great, you still need a budget.
So you're just being intentional with your money.

Speaker 1 And you, Jade, you talk about this a lot, especially on your social media. And people have been submitting budgets.

Speaker 3 to you. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And you've been talking about, you know, walking through line items and all of it. I did a call out.

Speaker 3 I was like, listen, if you want help with your budget, send me your numbers and I'll plug them in and I'll feature you on social media. And so I got tons and tons of submissions.

Speaker 3 And so one of the women that called in, she was like, listen, here's, you know, I'm, I live in Atlanta, Georgia. I'm divorced.
I make $95,000 a year. Help me out.

Speaker 3 And so I thought it would be actually really fun. Her name is Ariel.

Speaker 3 If we brought Ariel on and I can go over her budget with her live on the show, because I've already looked at it and I kind of started thinking, like coming up with some ideas, because she told me her biggest goal is to get out of debt.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 1 And so I think we should bring Ariel on and kind of get into it with her. Wonderful.
Ariel, are you there?

Speaker 2 Yes, I am. Hi.
So

Speaker 1 thanks for calling in and letting us do this because I think a really tactical budget walkthrough I think is so, so helpful.

Speaker 1 And those of you listening, either on radio or podcasts, you may not be able to see the visuals of this, but those of you on YouTube will be able to bring some stuff up.

Speaker 3 For sure.

Speaker 3 So, Ariel, I'll just kind of give a quick overview of the numbers and you tell me if I'm wrong about anything or if anything sounds weird, but I have that you make $95,000 a year, but after taxes, investing in insurance, you bring home about $6,200 a month?

Speaker 3 Yes. Okay.
And so on your budget, I broke that into, do you get paid twice a month?

Speaker 2 So I don't get paid. I get paid once a month.
Oh, wow.

Speaker 2 Yes,

Speaker 2 I'm used to it. It's 17 years I've been getting paid.
Okay.

Speaker 3 Well, when I did your budget, I just, because I didn't know that, I broke it into two checks just because I figured most people get paid like that.

Speaker 3 But if you, I know you can't see it, but I did not see any side hustles. And I was thinking, if her biggest thing is to get out of debt, she needs a side hustle.

Speaker 3 So if you're watching on YouTube, you can see that I wrote in the line item of side hustle for you just as an idea.

Speaker 2 Side hustles I have are like, they're not consistent. So I didn't know how to put it into my budget.

Speaker 3 Okay. What would you, what do you think like monthly you put in? Just to guess.

Speaker 2 If I were to guess, maybe about $600 extra from the side hustle.

Speaker 3 That's amazing. So I'm just going to plug that in live here to see how it changes your budget because before your margin like after all of your expenses your margin was like $241

Speaker 3 but adding that side hustle is huge now your margin is like $885

Speaker 3 which is

Speaker 1 before cutting anything before anything yeah

Speaker 3 so then you told me that you have an emergency fund and and that emergency fund is like two thousand two hundred dollars Yes, I did.

Speaker 2 Yes, I'm rebuilding it for the third time because there's always an emergency. Well, I've built it back up.

Speaker 3 Well, one of the things, you know, you told me that your biggest goal was to get out of debt and then save up, you know, three to six months of emergencies.

Speaker 3 So for us, baby step one is getting $1,000 saved. And you're above that with this $2,200.
And it looks like you're still planning to put $300 a month towards it.

Speaker 3 So if I were in your shoes, I would cut that down to zero like today.

Speaker 3 And that adds back. If you see like your margin.
I'm so scared. Now your margin is $1,185 to put towards debt.
Okay. And for anybody, we haven't scrolled down to the the debt yet.

Speaker 1 This is per month.

Speaker 3 Yeah, per month, which is great. We haven't scrolled down to your debt yet, but I'm just going to like spoiler alert and let the people know that you're paying out $1,700 in payments.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's a lot in debt.

Speaker 3 So having that kind of margin of paid off is good. So let's keep going through.
I'm just going to call out like everything going on that I see.

Speaker 3 So your mortgage is $1,800 a month, which is fine with what you bring home. You have a great income.
The typical things, cell phones.

Speaker 3 You know, I love that. I love that everything looks pretty reasonable

Speaker 3 cell phones felt a little high but I know you have kids so I'm guessing that one of your kids has a phone okay two of two of them have phones oh okay then that's a good number gas at 350

Speaker 3 and what do you do for a living by the way I am a teacher in elementary school okay wow you have a great salary I love that now yes I've been doing it for 17 years okay there we go now here's where I'm really proud of you groceries $500

Speaker 2 yes so this is something I actually started last year after I read a book

Speaker 2 about

Speaker 2 Budget Mom.

Speaker 2 So I actually take out $500 a month and I do $125 a week in cash. And once the cash is gone, we're done with buying groceries that week and we eat whatever's in the house.

Speaker 3 And I've been working for a year now. I love that.
That's amazing. And I love that your restaurant budget is zero.
It can be done. Yeah.

Speaker 2 We can't. Yeah.
I'm like,

Speaker 2 so I gave myself an entertainment budget and it's like, well, there's something over here, guys, but my kids know we eat at home.

Speaker 3 We eat at home. I love that.
So you set the precedent. They already know.

Speaker 3 So going down into your personal items, the things that I would cut, because I see like you and your daughter get your hair done. It sounds like you spend $300.

Speaker 3 How necessary is that? Because listen, when I was a kid, somebody had to do it.

Speaker 2 I was like, we just get our hair braided. And in Atlanta, it's just

Speaker 2 actually $300 for the tool to get braids is actually pretty cheap.

Speaker 1 I know that is. That's probably my only luxury item.

Speaker 3 Okay. So then if you keep the hair braiding, because listen, I know the way I grew up, I wished somebody could braid my hair.

Speaker 3 If you keep that on there, then I would say that you need to cut this $60 for the kids' allowance because

Speaker 3 there will be a time for that, but the time is when you're out of debt. And if you keep the hair, then I'd also take off the $75 for nails.
What would you do? Okay, Rachel.

Speaker 2 Yeah, the nails is not that important.

Speaker 1 Yep. Got to get out of here.
It hurts a little bit.

Speaker 3 Now, you also have on here $150 for child care, but you told me that this is the last month for that. So we can take that off.

Speaker 2 Maybe it was the last month. My son is now in middle school.

Speaker 1 So no more time.

Speaker 1 I love it.

Speaker 1 I did the happy dance. Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 3 And I know you're on the phone and you can't see this, but your margin, just making those changes, you're up.

Speaker 3 You started at $241 of margin and now you have $1,470 of margin.

Speaker 1 Okay, that's awesome.

Speaker 3 So this is just, guys, this is just Rachel, us plugging the numbers in every dollar,

Speaker 3 being intentional, and then going through and going, okay, what's necessary, what's not necessary, and what.

Speaker 1 And that side hustle has helped too. So that extra job.
But yeah, so when you go down to the debt, Jade,

Speaker 1 I mean, quick math, but for her to be able to throw at her lowest debt. Oh, there it is.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I actually paid off the two lowest credit cards.

Speaker 1 I love it. You paid them off.
Yes.

Speaker 1 Great job.

Speaker 3 Okay. I love that.
So if I click into here, because the balance was $84 on one and you were paying $40 a month,

Speaker 1 that one's gone.

Speaker 1 And then the second 17, that's gone.

Speaker 2 Oh, my gosh.

Speaker 1 I'm just going to make it.

Speaker 2 And the third one is almost gone. I only have 37, which is this month.

Speaker 3 Wow. I'm paying that this month.

Speaker 1 And with the margin, we just found two. I think that you'll be able to knock out credit card two, credit card three, four.

Speaker 1 And then what was right below that? The social security.

Speaker 3 Mm-hmm. She should be able to.

Speaker 1 Or techno security. What's security, EQ?

Speaker 3 Like security equity. What was that?

Speaker 1 April? Ariel?

Speaker 2 The Vivid security for my house.

Speaker 1 Oh, okay.

Speaker 1 So like that probably will be able to be paid off this month. And then you look at next month, credit card five, which is almost $1,000.
Yeah. That will be done.

Speaker 1 And then a little bit of credit card seven. Yeah.
And then the next month. And you keep going down.
You know, you keep. going and seeing like, oh my gosh, it really is.

Speaker 1 And all those minimum payments will be going to the next step because you're using the debt snowball method.

Speaker 3 And I think the way your debts are is really a great teaching point to show people how the debt snowball works. Because

Speaker 3 to Rachel's point, you pay one off. That money goes back into your margin.
And so I kind of played that out on paper for you.

Speaker 3 And if you keep going the way you're going, and here's the thing, when I played it out, I didn't know that you had a side hustle.

Speaker 3 So I played it out without a side hustle and just cutting those few areas in the budget. And it was going to take 20 months for you to pay off the debt.

Speaker 3 But now with that side hustle i bet that bought back several months yeah

Speaker 1 oh yeah

Speaker 1 ariel are you there yeah okay yes so and also i cut up all my credit cards last year so there's i'm not amazing any meeting we are slow clap this is how it's done guys that's so wonderful oh my gosh ariel well done see and it's just changing these habits it's putting up the credit card it's saying okay i'm gonna take on a side hustle i'm gonna eat for 500 a month did y'all hear that her and two teenagers eating for 500 a month no restaurants i mean she's doing it so yeah jade i mean i think within yeah i mean 18 months 18 months easy 16 months amazing ariel thanks for doing that and what a great teaching point and make sure you guys go to everydollar.com and check it out you can build your own budget for free

Speaker 1 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships.

Speaker 1 I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with my friend and best-selling author Jade Warshaw. And we are here, again, to help you out, America.

Speaker 1 You can give us a call at 888-825-5225, and we'll answer your questions about money, about life, relationships, career. Give us a call.
Up first, we have John in Houston.

Speaker 1 Hey, John, welcome to the show.

Speaker 2 Hello, welcome.

Speaker 2 Thanks for having me, I guess.

Speaker 1 Absolutely. Yes, for sure.
How can we help?

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 I filed for divorce for my wife about a month ago. Lots have transpired since.
We're kind of trying to maybe make it work, going to marriage counseling.

Speaker 2 In the interim of all this, we kind of split our finances about two or three months ago due to her spending and daughter. That's a long story.

Speaker 2 So fast forward to this

Speaker 2 last week. I got a bonus from work, a $30,000 bonus.
By the time it was put into bank, it was about $24,000.

Speaker 2 I currently owe $11,000 on a credit card.

Speaker 2 Most of that is for the divorce attorney.

Speaker 2 And then the other issue I have is I have, during COVID, we had two credit cards with Chase that we quit paying because we lost our jobs and obviously employed now.

Speaker 2 There's a lawsuit pending against me, and those are about $26,000 each.

Speaker 2 So I don't know what to do with this bonus money. One, I don't know if I should tell the wife or not because we're not divorced.
We're trying to work. That's part of it.

Speaker 2 But the other part is, do I keep the cash and try to settle with Chase? Do I pay off the current credit card that I have so I can get me back to debt-free border-wish other than my home?

Speaker 1 Just not real sure. Sure.
Yep, absolutely. What any other money saved?

Speaker 2 I have just a couple thousand dollars in the bank. Nothing major.

Speaker 1 Okay, okay.

Speaker 3 By a couple, like six or like two?

Speaker 2 Like two.

Speaker 1 Okay. Yes, two.

Speaker 3 So the bonus is $3,000, yes?

Speaker 2 No. No, the bonus is $24,000.

Speaker 3 $24,000. My hearing is off today.
Okay.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 what do you think you can settle these chase cars for? Have you kind of floated it out there to them?

Speaker 2 I talked to the debt attorney that I filed the lawsuits. He said they may be a 25,000 or a 25% reduction.
so he's thinking they could probably settle for about twenty thousand each

Speaker 2 that'd be a total of forty

Speaker 3 okay so they're two separate cases so i don't one's coming up the first of september and the other one i don't have a date on yet okay so the one coming up the first of september if you can settle it i think there's part of this since it's already like gone to court like it's already

Speaker 3 you know it's progressed to the point where you're gonna have to pay something i do think there's a smart part that would hold on to that money and not put it on the other $11,000 debt because you know this is coming and you know you're going to be on the hook for paying whether it's the full sum or, you know, a reduced amount.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 2 So, yeah, so and then I guess just go ahead.

Speaker 1 Well, I was going to say, yes. So, um, and anything obviously you get in that lawsuit, having, have in writing.
And I, and I would tell them, hey, I have $24,000.

Speaker 1 Well, I guess there are separate lawsuits, you were saying.

Speaker 1 Correct. Okay.
Yep. So I think getting them down as much as possible, obviously, would be the goal.

Speaker 1 And ideally, not going into collections and all of that, that you want to just take care of it. Absolutely.
And if that's the case, then yeah, you have 4,000. When does the other lawsuit hit?

Speaker 1 This one's September. Do you know when the other one will be?

Speaker 2 I don't know. I don't know.
I mean, they've already kind of hit. This is obviously aggressive.
So now it's like going to the trial thing and all this other stuff where I'm going to have to pay Chase.

Speaker 2 It's already been on my credit. All that stuff's already kind of happened.

Speaker 1 How long is this? Oh, sorry. Was it all under your name or is your ex-or I guess she's not your ex, but is your wife's name attached to this as well?

Speaker 2 No, they were all mine. They were cards that I had prior to our marriage.
And we've always done good. And then we spent a bunch of money and then we tried to get out of debt.

Speaker 2 And then we were doing okay. And then COVID hit.
We both literally lost our jobs within a week. And it was pay mortgage and feed our children or pay this credit card.

Speaker 2 Well, we chose a home and children.

Speaker 1 As you should. Yeah.
How much are you making a year, John?

Speaker 2 I bring in my base salary is 104 and my bonuses are in the $60,000 to $80,000 range annually.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 And with her,

Speaker 1 what does she make?

Speaker 2 It varies. We own a small business, a food truck business, so she brings in roughly,

Speaker 2 I would say, $7,000,

Speaker 2 $60,000 a year. Okay.

Speaker 1 And considering you guys are somewhat separated, I don't know if it's, you know, through legal means or not. Have you guys separated your finances?

Speaker 2 Yes, we did that about two or three months prior, and that was kind of her like final straw for us. But her spending was really the issue for me.
So,

Speaker 3 these three accounts, are these the only debts that you're on the hook for? Is there a car? Is there anything else? Because

Speaker 2 there is a Cadillac

Speaker 2 that we purchased together. That's her car, not my car.
So, in the divorce, she would get the car. Okay.
Kind of the thing. She would get the car paid.
I have a truck. It's paid for.

Speaker 3 Other than if we were divorced today, the only debt I would have would be the two chase and the $11,000 credit card okay and but and but you're making you know on a good year 180 plus a year yeah correct so I mean when I look at these debts and knowing that one of them is going to be settled you should have this knocked out like lickety split what's this what's your living situation

Speaker 2 currently living is she moved out uh Thursday. So literally just two days ago, she moved out.
She's living with a friend and her two kids, and I'm living in my house with my two kids.

Speaker 3 And what's her

Speaker 1 second marriage then for both of you?

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 3 And are you able to cover the mortgage in a way that it's no more than 25% of your take-home without her income added to it?

Speaker 2 Mortgage is $3,000 a month, so that's not a problem. Okay.

Speaker 1 That's great. Yep.
So,

Speaker 1 yeah, so to answer your question of why you called in, for sure,

Speaker 1 I would take the one that had the lawsuit attached to it, go ahead and knock that out. And then like Jade's saying, I mean, I would cut back on everything until you get this mess cleaned up.

Speaker 1 And then I think you do have this kind of fresh start. But I also, I'm cheering on for you guys, you know, that possibly I heard a little bit of hope there at the beginning of the call

Speaker 1 that you guys can, yeah, I think you do do some work, do some counseling therapy. And I pray that it is reconciled.
I think that's always the best hope for this.

Speaker 1 We never want to see, you know, marriages torn apart. And he said part of it was because of her spending, but we do see money issues play into that.

Speaker 1 But always you guys remember that those money issues usually is an indicator of something else going on underneath.

Speaker 1 And that's why having, you know, professionals on your side to really dig in, to know why.

Speaker 1 I mean, we are complex people and the way we, whether it's Medicaid or whatever it may be, our habits come out sideways.

Speaker 1 And when you can get to the root of that, of who you are as a person, that's really a beautiful thing. So, John, we're cheering you guys on.
I really do hope that there's reconciliation.

Speaker 1 But just from the money standpoint on your side,

Speaker 1 I think you can have a lot of this cleaned up really quickly. So I'm thankful you got back on your feet job-wise since COVID, because I know that was a pain point for a lot of people.

Speaker 3 Absolutely. No, I feel like today, Rachel, we saw a big theme of divorce, which is tough and it's so difficult, but I think it just drives home the point even more.

Speaker 3 Like I've heard Dave say it, marriages need maintenance. Like you need that regular, the same way you bring your car in for a checkup, you go to the doctor for a physical every year.

Speaker 3 Like you need a regular rhythm of let's go see a counselor. Like let's just make sure everything's good.

Speaker 3 And let's make sure, you know, premarital counts, like all those things that are checks and balances to make sure that you're operating at an optimal, yep, safe level in your marriage.

Speaker 1 Yep, and we have Dr. John Deloney here on our team, you guys.
So check out his content and books because it's kind of in this whole realm of life. This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 So I always hear someone will kind of ask something or be like, hey,

Speaker 1 there's a situation. Like it's not me, it's my friend, right?

Speaker 1 It's kind of that I'm asking for a friend because you never want to admit it's you.

Speaker 1 And it's whether because the situation's terrible and you're like, I'm so embarrassed by it. And or you feel like it's a stupid question.
You're like, I shouldn't know this, but asking for a friend.

Speaker 1 And so you came up with this like whole idea, Jade, which I love.

Speaker 3 Yeah, Asking for a friend. And so like, I feel like, Rachel, with money, there's all these terms or like lingo or jargon out there.
And it's like, should, should I know that?

Speaker 3 Like at this stage in my life. And so gross versus net pay.
I feel like that's one that's the difference.

Speaker 1 I'm asking for a different. We toss it around asking for a friend.

Speaker 3 And there is a couple of ways that we could explain that. But honestly, Rachel, I think this video explains it best.
Take a look at this.

Speaker 3 So basically, all it is, have you ever been to a restaurant and you get a drink and you're like, yeah, I'll have a Coke. And it's filled with ice, right?

Speaker 3 And you're like, there's hardly any Coke in here. And when they take the ice cube out, you see how much drink is actually left.

Speaker 1 It's basically not a lot. Less than half.
Less than half. How is that example?

Speaker 3 Very disappointing. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's a great example of gross versus net. And gross is the cup that looks like, oh, it's full.

Speaker 3 It's great. Yes.

Speaker 1 And then the net is what you take home and you're saying, oh, yeah, after taxes. Yeah.
The ice is the taxes. The ice is the taxes.
That's right.

Speaker 3 That's right. And so when you look at your paycheck, you know, you'll probably see like the different numbers.
Like this is your gross pay. This is your net pay.

Speaker 3 A lot of times when you, I mean, most of the time when you go for a job interview and you're negotiating pay, what you're really talking about is gross salary, right?

Speaker 3 It's like, you're going to make $50,000 a year. You're going to make, you know, $100,000 a year.
That is gross.

Speaker 3 And it would behoove all of us to look and go, okay, what does that that mean for me after taxes with my budget? Does it work?

Speaker 3 Because I know there's so many people who, when they finally get their check, they're like, wait a minute. Oh, yeah.
I was planning for.

Speaker 1 I think we all had that, our first jobs, right? You go, you know, mine was at the mall. I had a job at the mall.
You know, it's that first big job and you're like, okay.

Speaker 1 And you get that paycheck and you think, what?

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 1 I thought I was going to make, you know, you calculate in your head. You're like, oh, no, no, no, no.
Taxes. Yeah.

Speaker 3 So gross pay is the total you earn before any deductions or taxes are taken taken out of your check and the net is what you have left.

Speaker 3 Okay, so for example, if you have a salary of 50,000, that's your gross pay for the year.

Speaker 3 And your yearly salary is divided by the number of pay periods you have, such as if you're paid weekly or semi-monthly or monthly, that's the gross amount that you get to see on the check.

Speaker 3 If you're paid semi-monthly, which is twice a month, you would have 24 pay periods in the year. So, the 50,000 divided by 24 would be about $2,083 gross per check.

Speaker 3 But nobody cares about the gross amount. We want to know about the net amount.

Speaker 3 The way I always learned it or like remembered it in my head is that if you go fishing, you get to take home what's in your net.

Speaker 1 Yes, I thought that reminded the gross, I always look and I'm like, great, is this the gross? Oh, gross, gross. I don't want to see that number because I'm going to be disappointed.

Speaker 3 That's why I love it.

Speaker 1 I'm always like, gross, gross number. Gross number.
But I don't want that gross, nasty. Don't, don't show me that number.
Inside the minds of Rachel and Jade. I know.
I know.

Speaker 3 I love it. I love that.
So here's the thing.

Speaker 3 Again, if you own a business, maybe you're self-employed, your gross income is usually like, this is like the total revenue that I'm bringing in.

Speaker 3 This is before like payroll and all the business expenses. Right.
So that's kind of the way to think of it. So net pay is your total pay minus taxes or deduction taken out of your check.

Speaker 3 We could also call it take-home pay, right? That's right. Yep.
Which is when people call on the show all the time, they'll say, I make $80,000 a year. And we're like, okay, yeah.

Speaker 3 What's your take-home pay? What do you see every single month?

Speaker 1 And so, you know, we don't always do that, Jay. And that's some of our negative Nancies in the comments.

Speaker 3 They're always like, y'all just use that number and you know but you forget about taxes we don't forget about taxes but we don't forget they're just the the fact of the matter is it if there's a different differential there depending on what state you live in and so sometimes it's hard for us to guess and so we usually try to ask but the deductions that take place between gross and net we're talking about federal income tax state income tax which is the biggest differential um social security and medicare taxes if you have any like wage garnishments that we don't know about um health insurance premiums, a lot of times if your, you know, job will, you know, give you a health insurance, that's coming out of your check.

Speaker 3 And so I wouldn't call that a tax per se, but it is something that will lower your take-home pay.

Speaker 3 And then, of course, if you have retirement or 401k coming out of your check, again, it's not a FICA, you know,

Speaker 3 it's not something that's coming out in that way, but it is something that is lowering your take-home pay.

Speaker 3 So all of those things you really have to think of when you're planning your budget and making sure that you're looking at your pay stub every single time. So, so important.

Speaker 3 But yes, whether you're an employee or a business owner working with the tax pro can help you make accurate withholdings so you know exactly what's coming out of your paychecks, you know, you want to make sure like those withholdings are correct because a lot of times withholdings are too much or not enough.

Speaker 3 And that is determining your tax return, whether you have this big hefty tax return or not.

Speaker 1 So a big tax bill or you're getting a big tax return. Yeah.
Either way, you want kind of more of that middle ground. So looking at your, looking at that part is huge.

Speaker 3 Yes. So again, gross versus net.
Gross is the gross amount. You don't want to get too stuck on it because that's not the amount that you keep.

Speaker 1 Gross, nasty.

Speaker 3 Don't look at that. That's yucky.
What you get to keep is what you take in your net and take home. That's right.

Speaker 1 See? We're so helpful.

Speaker 1 No, but it is like one of those simple concepts that, again, it's that jargon that everyone's like, golly, I wish, you know, some people are like, I wish I learned this in school.

Speaker 1 Like if I did, I didn't have to Google or ask Jade and Rachel.

Speaker 1 And so honestly, learning this stuff as early as possible, I think, is such a gift.

Speaker 1 And we talk about this a lot at Ramsey Solutions: that if you have kids, you guys, it is your responsibility to teach them these things.

Speaker 1 But also, when schools get involved, or churches, or places in the community, that is just a bonus. And we are seeing a lot of states are actually mandating financial literacy now for high schools.

Speaker 1 Oh, goodness. Which is great.
And hopefully, you know, they have a great curriculum.

Speaker 1 And Ramsey, we actually have a curriculum that is in high schools all across America called Foundations and Personal Finance. And I think we actually have a video

Speaker 1 from them because it's such a great, such a great resource.

Speaker 3 How do people make money investing in the stock market?

Speaker 1 I'm not sure.

Speaker 3 I don't even know what a stock market is. I don't know what that is.
It's like gambling in Vegas.

Speaker 1 How do you know when you are able to retire?

Speaker 3 Don't you have to be like old?

Speaker 1 I feel like for most jobs, they give you a retirement plan and insurance and all that.

Speaker 3 Tell us what you know about how taxes work. I haven't been taught a whole lot about that.
I just know you get them every year, I think.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I ain't gonna lie.

Speaker 3 I have no idea about that one. What types of insurance do you need to have?

Speaker 1 Phone bills.

Speaker 3 Does the dentist have insurance? I think that's when you get older, though. Life insurance.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, I don't think, unless you're worried about dying.

Speaker 3 What is a good credit score?

Speaker 3 I learned about this. I did.
Not that much. Around like $700.

Speaker 1 Yeah, $700.

Speaker 1 So good. Okay.

Speaker 1 So that was something our team did where they just interviewed a bunch of high school students on some of the basics about

Speaker 1 adulting. We'll call it just adulting because that's everything from insurance to taxes and investing.
And again, when you can have this knowledge

Speaker 1 early on, then you're able to really change, you know, your mindset around money, the way you're doing your habits around money. And the earlier, the better.

Speaker 1 So if you guys want to check out Foundations, it really is an incredible resource. You can go to ramsecsolutions.com slash foundations.

Speaker 1 And thanks to all the teachers and the school districts across America. I mean, we graduated, what was it like, how many students was it? Over 10, I mean, 10 million or something? I mean,

Speaker 1 it's crazy. It's grown so much over the past couple of years.
And we really want good education, the right education into our schools.

Speaker 1 We don't want credit card companies obviously educating our kids who have alternative motives. We want them to learn the common sense way when it comes to money, but also educating them.

Speaker 1 Some of these more complex issues like investing and that kind of thing. But man, the earlier you can learn that, the better off you're going to be.

Speaker 1 So again, you can go to ramseysolutions.com slash foundations and check that out.

Speaker 3 I didn't know about any of this stuff when I was in school. I remember the first person to mention anything about investing was a professor that I had in college.
And it was just like offhanded.

Speaker 3 He said, you know, like if you invested a dollar a day for this many days, you'd have,

Speaker 3 whatever the number he said, I just remember being intrigued by that, being like, wait, what do you mean?

Speaker 1 And like, I had questions yes after the class about that not like music history or whatever we were learning i'm like what was that investing thing that you were talking about like what is the stock market like i just had never totally heard of it well if no one's yeah if no one's talking about or teaching it so yeah parents out there talk to your kids you know one thing mom and dad did so well is that they did not force us into like a mutual fund summit or something on the weekends like it was nothing legalistic, but it was just in the ebb and flow of life.

Speaker 1 Just be like, hey, did you know this? Or hey, let me talk to you about this.

Speaker 1 It's such a gift. Such a gift to give the youth, the kids of today.
This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Up next, we have Chris in Charlotte's.
Hey, Chris, welcome to the show.

Speaker 2 Hey, how are you doing? Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 Absolutely. How can we help?

Speaker 2 All right, so my question, so a little bit about myself. I'm 27, married with two kids.
My wife and I wrote a check to pay off her $58,000 graduate student loans, and we're officially debt-free.

Speaker 1 Amazing, Chris. Well done.

Speaker 2 Thank you. Thank you.
I have a unique situation where I'm a pro-athlete, and our bills are covered by each team I play on.

Speaker 2 After saving up for the next two years, since we're debt-free,

Speaker 2 should our focus be on buying a house with cash and buying a car with cash?

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's a great question. So are you,

Speaker 1 how are you guys doing currently with your cars? Because you mentioned paying a car with cash.

Speaker 1 Do you got you, but you're debt-free? You don't have any loans on your current cars, but you're just looking to upgrade. Is that what you're thinking?

Speaker 2 No, no. So we don't have cars.
So when we go overseas,

Speaker 2 they provide us with a car. So when we come home, we usually just rent a car for the two months that we're here.
But

Speaker 2 we don't want to do that no more. We want to actually go ahead and start owning cars.

Speaker 1 Oh, I hear you. Okay, so you guys don't currently own a home in the States because you're traveling, I guess, to Europe, or where are you going for to play? Yes, yes, okay, Turkey.
Okay,

Speaker 1 and then where, where are you going?

Speaker 2 Turkey.

Speaker 1 Okay, nice. And then when you come home, you're now saying, gosh, I mean, we have no debt.
We have probably, you know, you're making, I'm sure, great money.

Speaker 1 So you're thinking, we want to have a house in the States that we can really start, you know,

Speaker 1 having some

Speaker 1 money that we have.

Speaker 1 foundation yeah

Speaker 3 so the first thing yeah I

Speaker 3 with your income can I ask what your income is or you don't have to say if you don't want to

Speaker 2 yes yes so next year so this year coming up I actually leave tomorrow I'll be making $400,000

Speaker 3 for the next 10 months and then the next year after that it'll increase to $450,000 Okay, and then you have two months where you're not making anything or do you have other deals that kind of fill in those gaps for the other two months of the year?

Speaker 2 Two months, not really making anything. I run a camp, but it's nothing, nothing substantial.

Speaker 3 Okay, so the first thing that I would want to make sure is, I mean, you guys are debt-free. I'd want to make sure you guys have stacked up three to six months of expenses as quickly as possible.

Speaker 3 Do you have that in liquid?

Speaker 2 Yes, I do.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 3 And then the next thing is, are you regularly investing at 15% of what you earn?

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 3 Okay. that's the first, before, that's the first rhythm I'd want to start: okay, we're investing

Speaker 3 because I don't have to tell you, like in sports, you know, you're on top and then something happens and you're injured and you're like, oh, crap.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 3 So I want to make sure that that rhythm starts as quickly as possible. And then after that, you know, the way we teach home buying is you're saving up.

Speaker 3 In your case, I'd save up, you know, no less than 20%

Speaker 3 and then of the down payment. Right.
And then after that, you don't want the payment to to be any more than 25% of your take-home pay.

Speaker 3 Now, if you're like, hey, I just want to pay cash for a house, like that's also an option. If you're like, I just want to save up the income and pay cash, you have that option as well.

Speaker 1 Okay. Yeah.
And I think too, Chris, you know, there's

Speaker 1 a reality to your situation that, you know, you guys will just be in the States for two months at a time.

Speaker 1 Are you looking to retire and come back full-time soon? Or, you know, are you going to play this out as long as possible?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So so uh my time frame i'm 27 now so i think i would play for another good six to seven years okay um my income might not be as high as as it is right now but um i was thinking projected around the two hundred thousand dollar to three hundred thousand dollar range you know okay going forward

Speaker 1 for sure so yeah so i think yes

Speaker 1 okay so since you know you're only gonna be in this house for two months out of the year you guys it'd be tempting to get something crazy and be like you know big and flashy but I wouldn't.

Speaker 1 I would go really conservative on the first home. I would put as much down as possible, even pay cash for it.
And again, you guys will just be back two months at a time.

Speaker 1 And that's going to grow so much in your home value over the next few years that by the time you come back, you know, full time, even if it's in five years, there's a good chance you could sell that, take some of this cash that you've been accumulating over the past, and then go get a great home that you guys will be in year-round.

Speaker 1 So I think it's a really smart idea. Yes, I would go cash forward if you can.
Again, it can be something, you know, really conservative, but paying cash for it would be a great.

Speaker 1 But if not, you know, you can just put down maybe 50% or 75%.

Speaker 1 Definitely. It would be great and pay cash.
Yeah, for a car. But start that investment, Chris.

Speaker 1 You can check out our Smart Vestor Pros if you go to ramseysolutions.com and sit down with an investment professional

Speaker 1 and really work through some of these numbers with them too, because you guys have some great opportunity to do some amazing things. And you already have, Chris.
Like, well done.

Speaker 1 I just, I applaud you for the decisions you guys have made. All right.
up next we have Savannah in Houston. Hey, Savannah, welcome to the show.

Speaker 1 Hey, hey, thanks for having me. Absolutely.
How can we help?

Speaker 2 So I reached out because I had a fraudulent loan pulled out in my name.

Speaker 2 It was one of those classic, you know, text message scams, and I had just fell right into it.

Speaker 2 They happened back in February or

Speaker 2 March, I believe. Yeah, so back in March.
And I've just been dealing with it ever since.

Speaker 2 Since it happened, I've reached out to Navy Federal multiple times to get help.

Speaker 2 They've since told me after multiple encounters, three times that I was responsible after me appealing, responsible for this said debt, and have also taken my paychecks for my direct deposit automatically.

Speaker 2 Have also, whenever they were investigating the incident, they gave me, I forget what they called it, but it was about

Speaker 2 $2,000

Speaker 2 while they sorted out the investigation. And then they later pulled that money back and

Speaker 2 different deposits that have gone to my account, they've automatically taken out.

Speaker 1 Okay, so they have access to your checking account.

Speaker 2 Yes, yes. Navy Federal does.

Speaker 2 That's who I had my bank with.

Speaker 1 Okay, so they're garnishing your wages on a loan that is not yours. So

Speaker 1 I would immediately close your account. You need to open up a new one.
They don't need to have any access to your account.

Speaker 1 And then, I mean, if they're not

Speaker 1 doing anything, then I would pursue legal action. I mean,

Speaker 1 this is a classic case of identity theft. Someone taking your identity.

Speaker 1 Have you talked to any legal counsel?

Speaker 2 Yeah, so I've done a lot that I haven't mentioned yet, but

Speaker 2 I mean, I've really taken just about every action that I access to or can afford.

Speaker 2 So I first went to my JAG office. I'm active duty, so we have a JAG office.

Speaker 1 Okay, okay.

Speaker 2 I went to talk to them, and basically they are military-related. There's nothing that they can do for me in this section of law.
But he advised me to report

Speaker 2 to the government that I'm at risk for identity theft, did that.

Speaker 2 take out all of my money and move it to a different bank account,

Speaker 1 did that,

Speaker 2 And report to

Speaker 2 a bureau called

Speaker 2 one moment. It's a credit bureau that is over Navy Federal.
Basically report a complaint to them that Navy Federal isn't taking my issue seriously.

Speaker 2 I did that and haven't really heard anything back from them.

Speaker 3 How long has it been?

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 I filed the complaint with Consumer Financial Protection Bureau in

Speaker 2 two months ago.

Speaker 2 I got a package back from them, but it was kind of just documentation that I filed the complaint. There's no new information.

Speaker 1 On that. Okay.
I mean, my yeah, honestly, Savannah, my next step would probably be to contact

Speaker 1 an actual lawyer and have them get involved because they're going to be able to,

Speaker 1 you know, do more legal action than you just as like a citizen and hopefully have some level of intimidation to some of them, right?

Speaker 1 To say, oh my gosh, this is not, yeah, it's obviously not correct. And you're not liable for any of that.
You are not liable. Someone forged your signature.

Speaker 1 They took your identity and they took money out in your name. So, yeah.
So, obviously, you've done a great job, Savannah, at this point,

Speaker 1 keeping all the documentation. I would keep a very, very close record of everything.

Speaker 1 But if you don't hear anything back in the next 30 days, again, from them

Speaker 1 after contacting them a third, fourth time,

Speaker 1 I would probably contact, yeah, get a lawyer.

Speaker 3 I'd be turning the tables and be like, well, maybe I'll come after you.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's right. I mean, absolutely.
But I'm glad that, yeah, you've moved your accounts over for sure so they can't garnish your wages. So I'm so sorry, Savannah.
So sorry.

Speaker 1 This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Our scripture of the day is 1 Peter 3, 15. But in your hearts, revere Christ as Lord.
Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have.

Speaker 1 But do this with gentleness and respect.

Speaker 1 You can't knock on opportunity's door and not be ready. Bruno Mars.
Well said, Bruno. Well said.

Speaker 1 All right, let's go to Taylor in Dallas, Texas. Hey, Taylor, welcome to the show.

Speaker 1 Hello. Hi, thanks for calling in.
How can we help?

Speaker 2 I lost my son in a car accident a couple of months ago.

Speaker 1 Oh, Taylor.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 he had a big life insurance policy that we didn't know about.

Speaker 2 He wasn't married and no children.

Speaker 2 And I would like to share the money with my other children, but

Speaker 2 Right now I'm just overwhelmed. We're not sure how to go about doing that.
One is very responsible financially. The other one is not.

Speaker 2 And I'm just not sure exactly what we should do.

Speaker 1 I'm so sorry, Taylor. What was his name?

Speaker 1 I'd rather not say. Okay, that's fine.
That's fine. Oh, I'm so sorry.
I'm so sorry. I can't imagine.
How old was he?

Speaker 3 24. I am so sorry.

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 1 yeah, grief is,

Speaker 1 I mean, that's, that, that is the, that's the hell on earth. That no parent, that phone call that no one wants.
So

Speaker 1 our hearts are with you. I'm so sorry.
Um,

Speaker 1 so what I honestly would do, Taylor, is nothing right now.

Speaker 1 Um,

Speaker 1 you guys are grieving. Um, there's no urgency.
There's not a, you know, there's not kids in the picture. His, you know, he doesn't have children or a spouse.

Speaker 1 So there's not immediate, urgent need right now

Speaker 1 and honestly what we always recommend to people that have gone through something really traumatic or really um difficult whether it's a death or a divorce is just to slow down and you know wait a year wait a year before you make any major financial decisions.

Speaker 1 And so giving his life insurance away, I think is a really beautiful way to honor his legacy.

Speaker 1 But I would consider that a major

Speaker 1 financial decision. So I would honestly just open up a high-yield savings account and I would put that money in and I would just sit and cry and grieve as a mom and

Speaker 1 just kind of let some of this settle.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And then I think you may have

Speaker 1 more of kind of a clear

Speaker 1 mind to make some of these decisions

Speaker 1 in regards to your other two kids. How old are, how old are they?

Speaker 1 30 and 34. 30 and 34.
Okay, so they're older. Yeah.
Do they have, are they married with kids?

Speaker 2 One, yes, one married, no kids.

Speaker 1 Okay. Which one was the, you said one was really responsible, one is not, is the one that is have married and kids? No.

Speaker 2 No children.

Speaker 1 Okay. Very responsible ones.
Okay. Okay.

Speaker 3 Yeah. I agree with Rachel.

Speaker 3 You probably have some thoughts in your mind right now that maybe you would do with this money, but there's a lot that can change in a year.

Speaker 3 You might find the one that's, you know, quote, irresponsible now might start turning things around, or you might see other patterns that start to develop that change kind of what you're viewing.

Speaker 3 But the biggest point of this is nothing's clear right now. Like grief is such a,

Speaker 3 it's such a cloud, right? And, and I agree with Rachel, a year, like even if it's longer, the, the thing with this money is there's not a high sense of urgency on it.

Speaker 3 Um, generally, life insurance is to replace, you know, income that was depended on by somebody and no one was dependent on that income. And so you do have

Speaker 3 the peace to kind of just sit on this.

Speaker 3 Like Rachel said, you put it in a savings account. It's still going to grow.
And you have the time to kind of wait until that right point where you go, okay, I know what to do with this.

Speaker 3 I know what he would have wanted me to do with with this, and you can feel confident in the decisions that you're making.

Speaker 3 And so I'm right with Rachel on that. I just, my heart goes out to you.

Speaker 1 Taylor, did he have

Speaker 1 a card? Absolutely. Did he have a will in place on what he wanted to do with this money?

Speaker 1 No. No, okay.

Speaker 1 And as,

Speaker 1 yeah, so there's,

Speaker 1 I'm just thinking through any logistics on this side of it. Do you, where are you and your husband financially? Can I ask that?

Speaker 2 Oh, yes. We're everyday millionaires.

Speaker 1 Okay. Wow.
Wonderful. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. We've been doing this since I think about 2015.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Very good.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I think we don't need it, but, you know, I don't want to be irresponsible with it.

Speaker 3 And you won't be.

Speaker 1 No, you won't. And

Speaker 1 I think even what you can do is,

Speaker 1 you know, and again, this is a year down the road, and I think you can kind of make this, but different

Speaker 1 people that have sums of money that give to their children, you know, some people do it in the form of assets that they help with a big down payment on a home or they help put towards paying off a mortgage.

Speaker 1 So it's not just free cash, it's actually going towards something.

Speaker 1 So even the one that's irresponsible,

Speaker 1 you know, that could be something you kind of think through that you're not just handing him cash.

Speaker 1 But if there is a way in his life that you're able to kind of help set him up better, if that's what you choose to do, do.

Speaker 1 That doesn't, you know, it's not magnifying an issue that he has, you know,

Speaker 1 is a great thing. Or, you know, even

Speaker 1 with the son that has a family, you know, even talking through with them,

Speaker 1 you know, giving them, I think, the, the freedom to say, hey, here's, here's some money and maybe they could help their kids with it.

Speaker 1 You know, but I do, I do think the legacy piece is honoring to your son. And so I do love that thought of kind of passing that on

Speaker 1 to the rest of your family.

Speaker 1 I mean, that's a beautiful way to honor his legacy.

Speaker 2 Yeah, we've set aside 10%

Speaker 2 to

Speaker 2 give to different charities that we thought he would be,

Speaker 1 that he would like.

Speaker 3 It's beautiful. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I think that's a great plan. Taylor, are you guys, are you seeing anyone, a counselor, or do you have a good church family around you?

Speaker 2 We do have a good church family. We haven't found a counselor that we're comfortable with.
Okay.

Speaker 2 We've been led to a crease share group that starts next month.

Speaker 1 Good. Okay, that's good.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's great. Yeah.

Speaker 2 We all do need that.

Speaker 1 Oh, for sure. Yeah.
And I think, you know, those

Speaker 1 intense emotions, you know, ones of grief and that kind of thing, I mean, having somebody in your corner that can walk you through this, I mean, it's just painful.

Speaker 1 It's, it's, it physically is just, it's torture. It's absolutely torture.
But I think you're doing a wise thing to take care of you and your marriage.

Speaker 1 Because I do think as well, you know, some marriages, they don't survive traumatic experiences like this, like a death of a child.

Speaker 3 And so this is the time to lean into that with all of your might. Whatever strength you have, lean into your marriage.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And I have a good point.
So I'm grateful for that. Yes.
I'm so, I'm so, so glad. Well, Taylor, I hope,

Speaker 1 oh, I hope that helps.

Speaker 1 And again i'm i'm so so incredibly sorry but for any of you listening you know um just make it a point that there's there's usually not a lot of rush and you know we talked to even widows you know of a wife who has lost her husband or a husband who's lost their wife and and they want to take you know they get life insurance and they want to take it and pay off the house they want to do all these things really quickly and we even that just got to wait even that we just say slow down and and and this is the time to grieve like this is you don't need to make major decisions If you're in a

Speaker 1 dire situation and something needs to happen, you can use that money for that. But if you are in a position where nothing,

Speaker 1 no action has to be taken, I wouldn't.

Speaker 1 And sometimes even Jade, which is terrible, but there are people that even take advantage of those in grief. Of course.

Speaker 1 And they set them up in a bad plan and a bad financial product or whatever it is. And that's, you know, and emotions are so high at that time that some people are really, they fall to that so quickly.

Speaker 3 That's right. You're not thinking clearly.
You're not reasoning the same way you would.

Speaker 1 Yep, that's right. That's right.
So, Taylor, our hearts and prayers are with you and your family. I'm so, so incredibly sorry.
Well, that puts this hour of the show in the books.

Speaker 1 Thanks to everyone in the booth, all the guys, and Kelly. Jade, thanks for a great show.
You too, Rachel. Love hosting with you.
Thank you, America, for listening. This is the Ramsey Show.