Change Starts Today. Don’t Wait Till You’re 65 and Broke

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From the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people

build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual, amazing relationships.

George Camille, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author and co-host of the super hit, Smart Money Happy Hour on the Ramsey Networks.

He's my co-host today.

Phone number here is 888-825-5225.

Mark is in North Carolina.

Hey, Mark, how are you?

I'm doing very well.

I hope you are, sir.

I'm better than I deserve, sir.

What's up?

I am 65 years old.

I have made absolutely horrible decisions with money all my life.

I have no nest egg.

My wife has maybe 10,000 in a 401k,

and I've got maybe a couple thousand.

And

we have started

the steps.

Just last payday, we got our $1,000 emergency fund paid, and we also got

$200 paid down on our smallest unsecured debt.

So now it's only $150

left.

I've got two other credit cards and a car loan and a mortgage.

Total debt, including mortgage, is $137,000.

The

mortgage is a 15-year fixed rate.

It's set up to be paid half a payment every two weeks.

So in 12 months, I've actually paid 13 payments instead of 12.

And

since my wife, since we don't have anything lined up for retirement,

I'm trying to figure out what would be the best way for me to go.

Make sure I get out of all debt

with everything I've got.

I found out that if I pay just $425 towards my principal each month on my home, I can have it paid off in five years.

What's the balance on your mortgage?

$115.

Okay.

Well, you're scheduled to,

how long

are you into the 15-year

eight months?

Okay, so it's a brand new mortgage.

All right.

Well, doing a bi-weekly, you'll reduce the 15 to about 11 just on the bi-weekly thing that you're doing.

That has the same effect of paying an extra payment a year as you said.

Because 26 halves is 13 wholes.

And so you end up with an extra payment a year.

And so that's cool.

So you've got $22,000 in other debt.

Correct.

Are you both working still?

Yes, sir.

I'm sorry?

Yes, sir.

What do you make?

The two of us together

will make about $105,000.

Good news.

Okay.

First time we've ever broke $100,000.

Good for you.

Okay.

Well, what I would do is just leave the bi-weekly mortgage alone, let it run, and let's work the baby steps.

Your $1,000 is there.

Baby step two is listing your debts smallest to largest, the $22,000.

You need to be done with that in under a year.

Well, I can have the

unsecured debt, which is minus the mortgage, minus the car,

done in three months.

Okay, that's good.

And so the car is the bulk of the 22 then?

Yes, sir.

Okay.

It's $15,600.

Yeah.

But I'm saying $22,000 $2,000 a month is what you need to be putting on your debt

or more.

I'm sorry, I'm not following.

$2,000 a month at least needs to be going on your debt, not counting your house.

That's $24,000 a year.

So what they they're doing is that.

And

24,000 out of 105, you got plenty of room to eat.

So, I want you on beans and rice, rice, and beans.

In one year, you're 66 and you're debt-free.

Then you build an emergency fund, debt-free, except the house.

You build an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses, and then we spend the rest of the time finishing off the house and starting to build a nest egg.

So, basically, you know, you're like 72 years old, still working, and you'll probably have about

$200,000 in your nest egg.

The house will be paid for, and you'll be debt-free.

But you're working a while.

Okay.

You're working a while because you're broke.

Yes, I am.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So that just plan on that part.

As long as your health allows you to do that, then

that's what we're going to do.

But yeah, work those baby steps exactly the way they're laid out, Mark.

Let me send you a copy of the book, The Total Money Makeover, to help you get there.

But

it sounds like that you're very serious about this, and it sounds like you're actually going to do it.

Yeah, the best time to plant the tree was 20 years ago.

The next best time is today.

And I'm glad you're going, all right, I'm going to start plowing away at this debt.

Start investing.

And you're doing a lot of good things at once right now.

But like Dave is saying, when you do it with focused intensity, you're going to get through it faster, make more progress.

And then when you do get to building that nest egg, you'll make serious progress fast because you got to do that.

When you don't have a house payment, you don't have a car payment, you don't have anything, and you start chunking $2,000 or $3,000 a a month away in the nest egg.

That's $36,000, $40,000, $50,000 a year going into that thing.

That's how I'm saying you're going to be at $200,000, $250,000

pretty easily if you follow through.

But you're going to be in the early 70s when you get there.

But

you're going into your retirement years then, debt-free with a small nest egg.

And $200,000 is a small nest egg.

But you can get there.

That's your best fighting chance.

Yeah, you hang on.

Kelly will pick up and we'll get you a copy of Total Money Makeover.

It shows you, it's the baby steps on steroids.

It shows you exactly what to do, when, and work your way through it.

Kelly also signed him up for the new, the new Every Dollar

because that's going to help him guide him through those stuff.

It's going to ping him and tell him to do this and do that, show him what to do.

And it's more than just doing a budget now.

So, good stuff.

Very good stuff.

George, those are

sobering

calls.

I'm 65 years old.

I have a car payment.

I have credit card debt.

I have a mortgage.

And I have no money.

That will keep you up at night.

So if you're 35 and you're listening, that should be a warning shot across your bow.

Listening to Mark and what he's facing, you need to determine you don't want to be where he is.

And so don't show up.

at the doorstep of 65 broke with a car payment.

And where that comes from, and Mark, thank God, he's got a very good tone to his voice.

He's got a very good.

He knew his numbers, too.

The sense of he's already changed.

He just needed an implementation plan.

He's doing it.

So to Mark's credit, way to go, Mark.

The wake-up calls there.

That's the hardest part.

Yeah, touchdown.

But gang,

you know, when people say stuff like, well, you're always going to have a car payment.

If people say this stuff like that, just go, I can't hang out with you.

You're dumb.

I'll end up like you.

I don't want to be as dumb as you.

Well, you have to have a credit card or run up your, you have to have air miles and you need a credit score.

Ask Mark about how valuable that is right now.

Yeah, dumb as much.

You think that matters when you're 65 and you got no money?

It don't matter.

It just shows how stupid those ideas are that people talk about all through the culture.

And if you believe those ideas, then you end up, you know,

so some of you, this is your warning shot.

It's your,

this is,

you know, God putting this call right in front of you, begging you to straighten your crap up out there.

Come on.

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Louis is in New Jersey.

Hi, Louie.

How are you?

Hey, what's up, Dave?

How you you doing?

Better than I deserve.

How can we help?

Yeah, I got a question.

So in years past, I mean, even recently, I've been getting my health insurance through the marketplace.

And it seemed to make sense as, you know, we were making less money when we first started our businesses.

But now that we're doing better and better as time goes on, the numbers are just basically as if I'm paying for regular plans.

So coming up next year, I'll be a family of five and I won't really qualify for a lot of the tax, you know, breaks from it.

So I'm looking at like $1,500 a month in my health insurance, which is pretty normal.

But when I was running some of the numbers, I'm like, does it even make sense to have health insurance?

Because I feel like I live in New Jersey, so it's technically mandatory there.

So if not, I'd be paying the shared responsibility penalty.

So at my income, I ran the numbers and that would be like $4,500 a year.

Now, you know, $1,500 a month, $18,000 a year, even minus that $4,500, I'm still in the green $13,500,

assuming, you know, nothing detrimental happens.

But like, if I told you how many times in the last six years we went to the doctors, I mean, we're pretty natural, like holistic people, and we don't really go to the doctors that often.

We don't really take much medicine.

Are you running an HSA?

I am not.

And I don't know if, like, I was almost thinking of just kind of doing my own because I don't know if I necessarily qualify for it because I think you need to be in a high-deductible plan.

Well, that is a high-deductible plan.

You can move into that, and that lowers your cost.

And so here's the problem.

You can afford to take the risk with what you're outlining for the small things.

It's the $250,000 open heart surgery that will bankrupt you.

Yeah.

Okay.

And so you can't afford that risk.

And that is actually the number one cause of personal bankruptcy in the U.S.

is medical bills.

It's medical bills?

Yeah, it's not credit cards.

They're number two.

So you've got to have coverage, but what you do need to do is you need to change your coverage because you've covered everything.

And so a high deductible plan is what an HSA is based on.

And so most of them are, you know, I think mine, through my company right now, we run a high deductible.

It's one of our options.

It's what I carry on me.

And I think it's 5,000 deductibles

or is it 10?

I think it depends.

There's two options for that.

I think I run the one that has the highest deductible because it lowers your premium.

I think it might be $8,000 for family, family, something like that.

Take the highest possible deductible, like $8,000.

Make sure you have your emergency fund in place.

But what you're looking for, and copay is usually going to still be $80,000, $20,000 after the deductible.

Right.

And

then, and so really the first $25,000 or $30,000 is all going to be out of your pocket, a lot of it.

on a big event.

But then the HSAs also, the high deductible plans also have a stop-loss clause, and that's typically $10,000 to $20,000, which means once you reach that out-of-pocket, the plan pays 100%.

So you can afford that first amount of risk,

and you probably can cut your premiums close to in half by going the way I'm talking about.

I don't know for sure, but go shopping, go to Blue Cross, Blue Shield, go to Health Trust, our guy on the radio that we endorse here.

Let them search for you and find you the best possible deal.

And

they can help you get that lined up.

They're Ramsey Trusted.

They're good guys.

I've known them a long time.

And,

you know,

let them search it out and tell them you're needing as high a deductible as possible.

And the copay could even be large

as long as you've got a good stop loss on it.

That's your three numbers, the deductible, the copay, and the stop loss.

Then the fourth number is the resulting premium.

Okay?

And so we just just need to get your premium down.

Now, then you are also, in addition to all that, able to invest into a health savings account.

And you'll have a maximum that you can do on that.

And George, what's that running this year?

I believe it's close to eight grand for family.

Okay.

So I max mine out every year.

And that is a tax-deductible amount going into your HSA.

It's an after or a before tax investment.

And

here's the weird thing, Louis, with what you're talking about.

You got a healthy family.

That's what the Ramseys have been, knock on wood.

And so I've had an HSA since they first allowed it under George W.

Bush.

That's the administration that put it in place.

I have never touched the savings account.

Yes.

And I fully fund it every year.

Now I'm 65 and I can start taking it out like it's a retirement account.

And guess what?

There's a quarter million dollars in there.

Yes, right.

That I would have been paying to some stupid insurance company in extra premiums, but I've had low premiums and I took on the risk.

But I didn't take on the risk for,

I didn't take on the risk for a big thing.

Yes.

So it's almost the same as like a catastrophic coverage.

Not for pain, but more or less.

That's what we used to call it before HSAs came out.

We used to call them catastrophics.

Yep.

Yeah, because I'm running these numbers and I'm like, I'm giving these guys way too much money.

I don't even use it.

I'm like, I could be, and we do very well.

You know, I have a great state.

I have like $500,000 just like liquid at any time if something, God forbid, were to happen.

It's a small price to pay for peace, Louie.

That's the key here.

Don't think of that as an investment because term life is the same way.

Well, I'm not even using the thing.

Yeah, because you're alive.

Be grateful.

And so it's not investment.

Insurance is a very good thing.

You know, same thing with your homeowner's insurance.

You know, you don't carry it for, it's defense, it's not offense.

You're like, well, we haven't had a house fire in six years.

Can I drop it?

Well, I don't have a crystal ball to tell you nothing's ever going to happen.

Yeah.

So

health trustfinancial.com.

Okay.

They'll help you shop around.

Tell them you talk to us on the air.

And they're good guys.

Like I said, I've known them 15 years, and that's why they're Ramsey Trust.

That's why we do this with them.

And they have brokers that will shop different companies and different plans with different companies to find the one that fits your family just right, your family of five, and get it all dialed in here.

And let's get the premium down.

You take the first dollar risk.

In the health insurance world, we call it first dollar risk.

And so

the more of the first few dollars, the more of the first $20,000 or $30,000 of risk you can take in any insurance,

homeowners insurance, car insurance, health insurance, the more of that risk you take,

the lower your premium just goes way down.

Because every time you go to the doctor, you turn in an insurance claim, it costs, you're going to pay a bazillion dollars a month for that premium.

But if you got a thing like, I go,

I don't even know what, when I have turned in an insurance claim, I just go and pay for it because it's not going to, I'm cash flow.

It's not going to hit, you know.

And the only time I would ever keep up with it even is if I thought we were in a situation where we were going to hit the deductible and I had to go back and drag the bills together.

But any kind of medical thing that Sharon or I do, we just pay for it.

Let the money grow.

Because it's not a major thing, you know.

And we leave the HSA alone and we, you know, accept the low premium through Ramsey Solutions on my HSA plan.

So

I took my car insurances up to 10 grand.

Yeah, because again, you don't need as much transfer of risk here.

But you still want to have it to cover the big stuff like the car wrecks.

Mainly liability.

But the thing,

still an expensive car, so

we'll cover.

I'll cover, I don't care, I'll cover 20 grand of it.

It's not that big a thing.

And then your premiums just plummet.

They go way down when you start doing that.

But you can't do that until you got a little bit of money.

And so you got to have the HSA,

the savings account portion built up, and an emergency fund built up to cover these higher deductibles.

But always be looking at that, folks, and get out of the first dollar of insurance coverage.

I want it to cover everything.

No, you don't.

It's cost too dang much.

Your premiums are going to go through the roof.

You don't want that at all.

And so

it's the problem with

vision and dental is...

you know it's a wash it's a wash what you pay for it you could have just gone to the dentist so unless it's offered for free through through an employer or something, sure, take that.

Exactly.

But if you're having a pay out of pocket.

And I did find out HSA max for 2025 is $8,550.

Thank you for looking that up.

It's close.

Good, good, good.

Okay.

It's a great deal because you get triple tax advantages in that HSA.

Yeah, and if you use it,

it's a tax-deductible claim.

And so if I did pay out of the HSA, I don't pay taxes on that money.

So the government, in my case, is paying 37%.

Not a bad deal.

You want to stick it to the money?

It would have been taxes, right?

And so by it being a pre-tax plan and a tax-deductible plan, then you get that.

So it's the best way to go.

And these guys at Health Trust are doing a great job for those of you out there that are facing other health insurance things.

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This is silly, George.

August is National Make a Will Month.

That's dead serious, if anything.

Got him.

Got him.

Got him.

I'll be here all week.

Top five reasons people don't do a will, and this is not a lie.

This is the actual.

Number one, procrastination.

43% of adults without a will say they just haven't gotten around to it.

Well,

you're going to die.

You probably ought to work on it.

Number two, perfectionism.

Writing a will involves a few big decisions.

Just do the best you can.

You're not going to get it right.

And by the way,

someone's going to be unhappy.

Just plan on it.

It's kind of part of the thing.

Thinking you need a certain amount of assets to do a will.

No, No, you need a will.

If you're 18 years old, you need a will.

If you don't have a bunch of assets, it's not a big deal.

But you don't want the government deciding who takes care of your kids.

So you need to name a guardian and you need to do that in a will.

Hello.

Let the government figure out anything.

That's a bad idea.

Track record's not great there.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Number four, a belief that everything automatically goes to your family.

No, it doesn't.

Most of it goes to the lawyers.

If you don't do a will,

that's not how that works.

And by the way, again, some judge in probate is going to decide this.

No, you need to write it out and tell people what it is.

Uncertainty about the process.

Most people don't know where to start.

Well, we can help.

Go to ramseysolutions.com slash willsquiz.

It's a free quiz.

Ramseysolutions.com slash wills quiz.

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If you've got a simple estate, it's an easy way to do it.

You can do it in one evening.

You'll have it completely knocked out.

And you'll go, why didn't I do that sooner?

Gosh, that wasn't even that hard.

Well, the other stuff is people forget about stuff like, okay,

you're in a coma.

Who gets to make your medical decisions?

You need a healthcare power of attorney.

It's part of a standard will kit.

It's one page, but it sure does make everything easier.

And you don't have to go before a judge to get permission to treat your husband.

Hello?

The last thing you want during that time?

Medical power of attorney.

Financial power of attorney.

Financial power of attorney.

Something happens, and they need to be able to move some money around so that you can get your bills paid.

Hello.

So all these things.

And again, it's not complicated.

You just got to bother to do it.

Doesn't increase your chances of dying either.

Studies show.

Yeah, and studies show that you're going to die.

That's detail.

We know that's happening.

So you're not getting out of this alive.

Daylon's in San Antonio.

Hi, Daylon.

How are you?

I'm doing good, Dave.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

How can I help?

So my question is kind of a two-parter.

It has to do with combining finances with my spouse as well as for our ultimate goal of paying off our house center.

Okay.

So, I'm guessing, I guess, the number one thing is she and I both contribute to paying on things.

I pay the mortgage and she pays some of the bills and things like that, but we currently have two separate bank accounts.

So, I'm not but we haven't taken the leap of having a joint bank account, but I'm trying

don't really have an answer to that other than,

I guess, just

the idea of

it feels like it's maybe a lack of

maybe it's a lack of control thing.

I don't know.

Yeah.

Well, here's the control factor.

When the two of you put all your money in one account and the two of you before the month begins sit down with your every dollar budget and the two of you have a vote about where the money's going to go and you lay out where the money's going to go before the month begins, and you both agree to that,

then the control is if somebody doesn't do what they agreed, they're a liar.

They broke a contract.

Yes, sir.

And so you've got pure communication.

Right now, you've got a half-but communication because you half-butt know what's going on.

But we've got pure communication because it's all laid out on the front end, and the two of you together.

And here's the actual result.

When we surveyed the general public, less than 50%

of the general public down in the 40 percentile range combine their

assets with their spouse, combine their incomes with their spouse.

When we surveyed 10,167 millionaires, 83% combined

their income and their assets with their spouse.

And so the result is you have

a much higher probability of building wealth and accomplishing your financial goals when you're actually working together instead of acting like you're roommates.

Yes, sir.

That's data.

That's not a feeling.

It's a fact.

So that's important.

And the reason is pretty simple because you get much more efficient use of the money pointed toward a shared goal that we both have agreed to.

By the way, the quality of the communication increases in your marriage, your relationship increases, and the quality of your marriage increases overall.

Because you're forcing each other to agree on our fears and our dreams, dreams, and we're in alignment on those things.

It's a big deal in a Georgia.

Yeah, well, and the other thing is it hides things that are just going to cause resentment later on down the line or spending issues.

So I'd rather get them out on paper now, have some accountability built in and transparency to where my wife sees every transaction alert come through our bank.

She knows what's going on.

I know what's going on.

And that has allowed us to exponentially build wealth because none of us are sitting here, you know, whittling away our money that we've worked so hard for.

It controls how many purses Sharon buys and how many guns I buy.

Connecting, yes, sir.

The question is, which one costs more?

Aha, there's the question.

I'm just telling you.

I'm curious, Dalen.

A pistol costs two purses, George.

I'll just tell you.

I know what the tradeout is.

That's called Dave Math, right?

So, Dalen, have you guys combined in other ways?

Is she on the mortgage?

Is she on the deed?

Yes, sir.

She is on the mortgage, kind of how it's been, well, so kind of how it's been going.

I've been paying the mortgage, and she has been taking care of some of the utilities, but

the main thing is that she does have student loan bid.

So,

I encourage her to

currently, I believe I do.

Yeah, okay.

So, what do you make?

I make about $84,500 a year.

What do you think she makes?

Well, so

hers varies, but

she's a therapist, and so she makes based upon patients, so it can vary between $800,000 to $3,500 a paycheck.

It just depends.

But I mean, like when you're doing your taxes for a year, what's the lady make?

I want to say at best, hopefully, probably about $84,000 to $85,000.

Okay, so you got $150,000, $160,000 income.

That's the point.

Okay.

And

how long have y'all been married?

It'll be two years in October.

Who's the more detailed nerd in the bunch?

You or her?

You?

Yes, sir.

Yeah, me too, at my house.

I'm the nerd at my house.

And that makes her, we call them nerds and free spirits.

Who's the nerd?

Who's the free spirit?

My wife is the free spirit.

Who's the spender and who's the saver?

I'm the saver.

Okay.

And she's the spender.

Okay, so she's a free spirit spender and you're a saving nerd.

All right, now here's what's going to end up happening when you combine.

She's going to feel controlled at first

by this whole process because she likes to be on,

she doesn't like being having a harness on her.

Okay, but she's going to learn that we're not controlling the spending, but instead what we're doing is designating the spending.

So she gets to basically, my daughter Rachel is like your wife.

She's a

free spirit spender okay

and Rachel finally when she and Winston started doing the budget and they're early in their marriage she determined that the budget is not a restriction on her spending it's permission to spend because now whatever's in a category that is spending for your wife she can do without any guilt or worry of retribution from you because you've agreed about it before the month begins

It actually sets her free to do what she does.

Now, I'm a nerd spender, so I'm a little different.

So, I plan out my spending, and that way I know I'm being responsible about it.

So, that helps.

And my wife wants to plan out our saving because she's a saver.

So, you get to do your saving.

You get to do your spending.

Everybody gets a vote.

All of this is reflected in our plan.

And she's going to help you have fun, and you're going to help her retire and not have to eat dog food.

It's a good team, right there.

Yeah.

And

you need each other.

If two people just alike get married, one of you is unnecessary.

You've got a job, a dog, maybe a Peloton, but no will?

Come on, people.

It's make a will month.

Time to stop pretending you're immortal and start adulting like a pro.

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David is in Louisville, Kentucky.

Hi, David.

How can we help?

Hi, guys.

Thanks for taking my call.

Sure.

So I'm 29 and my wife is 27.

We're both self-employed, and our only debt is our mortgage and it's about 30% of our gross income.

I mean, it's been doable, but it's a little bit tight at certain times, especially after our investing in newborn expenses.

So my question is, is it or would it be smart to sell our current home and invest all of that net profit into a Roth retirement?

and then just start over in a small starter home.

So

in doing so, we'd have 160,000 and Roth funds at our age.

And without ever contributing, we'd have about $25,000.

Your phone's breaking up.

Honey, your phone's breaking up.

I have no idea what you said.

You said 100 and something, 100, what did you say, 100?

How much going into

retirement?

We'd have about 165,000 and Roth funds.

Okay.

No, it's not Roth.

You can't put it all in a Roth.

The only thing you can put in a Roth is a rollover from a retirement.

You can't put home equity all in in a Roth in one year.

You can put $8,000 in in a year, but that's the most you can do.

Well, we

have a Roth 401k, so it could do around 20,000 each of those because we're both self-employed and including Roth IRAs.

Okay, yeah, you can move it that way, but you can't just move $150 from your house into a Roth.

You have to do it through some of those vehicles.

Why is your business not growing?

I mean, it's growing.

We started out

about 100 on average.

Man, your phone sucks.

Try again.

It's an iPhone 10.

So we started out.

I'm done.

We tried.

All right.

We tried.

Open phones at 888-825-5225.

If your business, sir, is increasing in profitability and increasing in revenue, you can keep the house and you should keep the house.

But I think the problem is not the house, and the problem is not the Roth IRAs.

The problem is you're not making enough out of your business.

So you guys need to make some career decisions.

Either this business needs to get up, get running, and increase your income using that, or you need to consider if this business is really viable or not.

That's what you're looking at.

James is in Denver.

Hey, James, what's up?

Hi.

How are you doing, Dave?

Better than I deserve.

How can I help?

Well, I was hoping that you can guide me in the right direction.

I am

contemplating retiring early, and I'm quite young for what I was born and raised to realize that it's retired.

I just turned 38 years old.

Okay.

Okay.

What do you mean by retire?

Not grind a day job every day that I'm worried about.

Okay.

So you want to sit on your butt for 40 years?

I basically sit on my my butt, maybe hike, maybe golf, maybe get outdoors.

Dave does a lot of that.

Yeah, still work.

Okay, there's two questions here that are built into this issue.

Question number one is

the philosophy of that, and question number two is the math of that.

Can you afford to do it?

How much money do you have invested and saved?

Right now, I have about three and a half million in the market.

Okay.

Then you can retire.

A couple of houses.

You've done great.

Congratulations.

Now, what were you doing for a living?

I was doing technology sales and done quite well.

Yeah, you've done fabulously.

Congratulations.

Very proud of you.

That's excellent.

So definitely math-wise.

I mean, I'm sure you can live on 300 grand a year.

Hello?

Sure.

I'm sorry?

No, I said, sure, absolutely.

Okay, then, you know, 3.5 million at 10% is going to produce that.

At 8%, it's going to produce that.

And that's not counting your rental houses.

So, yeah, you'd math.

So the math question is, yes, you can retire.

I will tell you, having met with wealthy people and people who were successful as successful or more successful than you at an early age, the ones that attempted to do nothing have not had a high-quality life.

Golf and hiking just don't do it, man.

Yeah,

after a few months of this, I'm starting to get that.

I can tell you the pattern.

Oh, you've already done it.

It goes from.

Wait a minute.

Have you already quit?

Do we have any phones that work on this planet?

How has technology not improved over the last 30 years that you're doing this, Dave?

Yeah, I don't know.

So, okay.

Anyway, the answer to your question is yes, mathematically, you can retire.

And

philosophically, you can control how much you work and you can increase the number of hikes and the number of rounds of golf.

But

I will tell you that you will have a much higher quality life

and your wife will be happier with you if you are doing something.

Even if you start your own business and you work it five hours a day or four hours a day average, you work it, you know, some days you work it three days a week.

I've got a friend that has a house in

Aspen and he has a house in the mountains in North Carolina.

And he goes back and forth between those and he works from his computer running a business.

But he doesn't work but, you know, a couple hours a day, three or four hours a day, but he's still engaged, still being creative, still having strategic thought, still, you know, doing something.

And so, you know, in my case, I love what I do, so I have no desire to walk away from it, and I intend to do this until I don't make sense anymore.

And then they will take me off the air.

And there's all kinds of plans behind my back to make sure that that happens.

But

I mean, I don't have any reason to not come down here because it's been, I mean, I could have quit at 38.

I was done.

Financially, the math set of financially.

Financially, I was done at 38.

Easy, probably before that.

But this is God's call on my life.

And so I get great joy from it.

It would be ridiculous to not be engaged and put your hand to a plow that causes things to grow.

And so that's what I want for you.

You've obviously got high capacity, and it would be a shame for the high capacity to be on the end of a fishing pole.

And so, as your only thing you do with your life.

So I just, I don't recommend that for you.

And I don't find retirement in the Bible, by the way.

I don't think it's evil if you do.

I don't think you're doing anything wrong.

I don't think it's immoral.

And it may be that just in biblical times, people had to work because they were always hungry.

But it could be that.

And we may

have advanced our finances beyond that at this stage.

So I'm not making a, it's not a moral statement.

It's a matter of the way we seem to be wired as humans.

We do better if we've got our hand to something.

Exactly.

As I've looked into this is the fire movement, financially independent, retire early.

And this is the exact pattern I've seen.

It's short-term fun.

Woo!

I don't work for the man anymore.

And that lasts for two weeks or a month.

Then it leads into boredom, which leads into depression, which leads into a search for purpose again, which then leads to the thing you should have been doing all along.

And that's what people do.

They spin up a new business that fires them up.

And I think that's what our friend here needs to do is go find the thing that actually gets them excited to go to work.

And then it's a shifting for He wrote a wonderful book I recommend to you called Halftime.

And he said, we spend the first, particularly males, not females don't fall to it as much, but we spend the first half of our lives in acquisition and the second half of our lives doing something with meaning.

And so, and if you don't make that transfer, you have a midlife crisis.

If all you do is stay, if you're a 60-year-old and you're still in acquisition mode, you know, you're going to fall into midlife crisis.

And so be careful with that.

And,

you know, I just, I, I, again, you're right.

The fire movement has failed miserably in terms of quality of life.

And so this idea that I'm financially independent, independent from what?

You still have human beings you're interacting with.

And they're out there.

They're called life.

And you're going to have to still be a nice person.

And you're still going to have to, you know, do, you know, but here's the thing.

If you have high capacity, there's stuff God needs you to do on the planet.

Do something of size.

Do something of scale.

And I don't care what it is.

But now you can do it on your terms.

And that's the beautiful part.

Yeah, that's how I would go at it.

So cool stuff.

Thanks for calling in.

I get it.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show.

George Camill, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today.

And Alex is Alexis rather, is with us in Miami.

Hi, Alexis.

How are you?

Hi, Dave.

I'm amazing.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

Oh, well, so I'm calling you today because I love all the advice, financial advice, and even kind of spiritual advice that you give your listeners.

And I've kind of stumbled upon a big chunk of change.

And before I make any rash decisions, I'd love to talk to you about it first.

What kind of stumbling and what kind of chunk of chunks?

Right, right, right, right, exactly.

So

a few months ago, my husband tried to be a superstar husband and he bought me a fancy car.

It was a 2025 black badge, all black, red interior, Rolls-Royce.

And he bought it for me in hopes that I would be, you know, happen having fun in like a mom car.

But,

you know,

I don't want to be, you know, ungrateful, but it's not not the color I asked for.

It's not the style of car I asked for.

What were your demands originally?

I wanted a drop-top Bentley.

Oh.

I wanted to feel the wind in my hair.

I wanted to be able to, like, you know, my girls are coming over.

We just hop in my car and then we just skirt off.

I don't like having to like remove car seats.

Sometimes I get my wife's Starbucks order wrong, so I totally relate to this.

I know, I know.

I knew you guys would understand.

Yeah.

So anyway,

stop,

stop, stop, stop.

I can't breathe.

The household income is what?

Well, my husband does crypto, so there's some months where you make millions of dollars and then some months where we don't make anything.

You know, it's just all about how my husband strategizes his time.

But he does what he can.

You know, are you punking us?

Oh, my God.

No, you can look me up.

Like, I'm giving you my birth name and everything.

No, I'm not punking you.

This is real life.

And so I'm called me about a $600,000 car and your husband's job is crypto.

And these are obviously none of the things we talk about on the show.

So we would never recommend any of this.

No, no, that's why I was hesitant to, you know, be live on air about it.

But what I'm saying is, you know, I'm not in love with this car and I'm looking to sell it.

And we have an offer for it and I don't.

Oh, well, then sell it.

Okay, and then what do I do with the money?

Just like now have money with it?

I don't know.

Is it not your husband's money, too?

No, it is, but you know, it was a gift to me, so now I'm able to like reinvest it or, you know, do something with it that's a little bit more important than just like have it sitting in my driveway.

I thought you were going to get a drop-top Bentley.

I mean, now I don't even care about a fancy car at all.

I just would like to do something a little bit more interesting than have it sit in my driveway.

So you changed your mind?

I mean, time has gone by, and now I'm like, you know, a little bit more mature, and, you know, things like that aren't interesting to me.

You know, having something like that in my driveway is a liability.

And, you know, if I've been told to put my money money in this way, and then, you know, I'm being pulled in many directions of what I should do with a sounds like if you asked your husband, he'd want to invest it in crypto.

Yeah, but I don't want to do that.

Why?

I don't understand it.

I don't understand it, so I don't want to do it.

He can do what he wants.

And, you know, this is something that was gifted to me, and I want to make a little,

you know, more thought-out decision with it.

Okay.

Well, honey, I

mean, you're going to have to pick out something you want to do with it.

There's so much broken about this whole process that I don't know where to begin to help you fix it.

Number one, process should be that two grown-ups living together

don't buy $600,000 cars without the other one being involved in the decision.

For that matter, they don't buy $6,000 cars without the other one being made in the decision.

And number two,

two grown-ups living together share.

their assets, their liabilities, their incomes, their dreams, and their fears.

And so it's not like you have your own little private party party account over here as a result of selling a 2025 Rolls-Royce.

So that's not how it should work.

So I disagree with your premise.

And so I would coach you guys to start working together and, you know,

begin to invest in some real investments, not just crypto.

both of you for that matter and

otherwise your life is just going to continue to be extremely volatile and if volatility is purchasing a 2025 Rolls-Royce that is the wrong interior color and then turning around and selling it if that's volatility that's that's volatility and that's there's a lot of chaos around this whole process and none of this is going to lead to peace in your home peace in your future calmness

you guys are just running around 63 different directions life in the fast lane should be your theme song so um yeah, we need some shared goals, shared vision.

And so far, your shared goals have been let's get rich quick and have a bunch of vanity, which is fun, but you found out very quickly it didn't last the test of time.

I guess.

When you reassess the situation, how long the time frame was, it feels like it was two weeks, but um, that's a fairly quick, short period of time to grow up.

But, um,

it apparently worked.

I don't know.

So, there we go.

Hayden is with us in Minnesota.

Hi, Hayden.

How are you?

I'm well.

How are you?

I'm better than I deserve.

What's up?

So I am 24, and I would like to purchase an engagement ring.

Yay!

Along with that.

That's awesome.

You got some money saved?

Thank you.

I do.

When are you going to pop the question?

Hopefully soon, probably within a month or so, once I get all this stuff squared away.

Yeah, I got to have a plan, man.

I like it.

So, what do you make a year?

Last year I made $85, and this year will be about $85.90.

Okay, and how much you got to save for the ring?

In a high-yield account right now, I have about 40.

Okay.

At 401k from an employer, about 10.

But I mean, in that four,

the 40 is not allocated to the ring.

No, no, no.

Okay, how much you got to save for the ring?

Well, so that's where I kind of want to figure out.

My question to you is how much I should spend on that ring.

One month's income.

Okay.

Jewelry store will tell you three months.

Do you think so?

I would like to...

We've had a kind of the goal to go on a vacation.

Neither of us have ever been out of the country.

Well, that would be like the honeymoon, right?

Kind of, yeah, pretty much.

So that encompassing with the ring, would you say that that changes things?

No, I just, I just, that's different.

What I would spend on the ring is 10 grand or less.

Okay.

And what I spend on the trip is what I spent on the trip.

And you got the money to do both.

Okay.

There is no correlation between the size of the ring and the probability of the marriage being a success.

Except possibly an inverse correlation.

Meaning the larger the ring, the better the chance it fails.

But most high-quality marriages are not based on the size of the ring, in other words.

So

lots of people get married with something out of the bubblegum machine.

Sharon Ramsey married me with a 0.00 whatever chip that you could barely see.

And now she wears a headlight.

There's no decimal points in that one.

She does whatever she wants now, right?

But that's 43 years of putting up with me.

You get a ring.

So that's it.

And you get a ring.

So anyway,

the starter ring is fine, 10 grand, and you've saved the money to do it.

Shop around, learn a little bit about diamonds.

They're not an investment.

That's the biggest lie ever.

I bought a bunch of them.

None of them have ever gone up.

They don't go up in value.

The only value is her smile.

That's it.

That's the only thing it gives me value.

The rest of it's just, it's in the box.

It's in the middle.

Figure out her taste, figure out the budget, and then just go for it.

Diamonds are forever.

Diamonds are a girl's best friend.

Those are jewelry marketing lines.

You need better friends.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens.

One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

You know, we hear it all the time.

A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

Yeah, and that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

Yeah, that's right.

You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage.

No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection.

But there's another piece that people often overlook and that's long-term disability insurance.

Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them.

Life insurance steps in when you die.

Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work.

So it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet.

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Christopher is in Denver.

Hi, Christopher.

How are you?

Hey, I'm doing well.

Glad to be here.

Good.

How can we help?

So, I'm calling

essentially because I

quickly accumulated quite a bit of debt in about three months.

And at the same time, from gambling.

Oh,

have you stopped gambling?

I have stopped.

I have, yes.

What were you betting on?

Online crypto casinos, like blackjack, for the most part.

Yeah.

And how much debt did you build up?

Built up close to $40,000, $37,000.

$37,000 in three months from gambling.

Okay.

Right.

On credit cards?

Total losses were about triple that.

But yes, all credit cards, yep.

Okay.

Your losses were triple that?

Yeah, total.

That was the $37,000 was just the debt.

And did you have money before?

And the sixty thousand was savings you c went through?

Yeah, savings, portfolio, crypto holdings.

So I'm curious why it took a hundred thousand dollars for you to figure out this is a stupid idea.

You know, I really thought I was going to get it back.

But that's how it goes now.

Says every gambling addict.

So

how old are how old are you?

Twenty seven.

What's your household income, sir?

Um well, I'm self-employed.

I've been running a company for a little over five years, so it varies dramatically.

But last year was $88,000.

You made $88,000 last year.

What do you think you're going to make this year?

Probably $115,000.

Okay.

That's good.

Very good.

Good for you.

Okay.

Are you single?

I am.

Okay.

And your question is, what then, sir?

Well, when I went through this partially because of my self-employment status, I mean, my initial, once I decided I'd had enough and it was time to quit,

my initial thought was I should be consolidating this somehow because, you know, the 25%, 28%, whatever it is on these cards is

unnecessary is what it felt like.

I should put into a consolidation loan.

And I went to do that to probably 14 banks or whatever.

I tried everywhere and no one would give it to me partially because of recent behavior and like how quickly it came up and credit utilization.

You're what's known as a bad credit risk because you've been doing stupid stuff.

Yeah, that makes sense.

I wouldn't argue with them.

Yeah, that's what makes sense.

That makes sense.

Yeah.

Okay.

So the next place that a lot of them tried to push me was to debt relief programs.

New, new, new, new, new, new, new, new, new.

You're going to, the only way a debt relief program works is if you quit paying everyone and you go into default.

And then they negotiate lower rates to finally get the credit card company repaid.

You don't need to do that.

You make $105,000.

You're single.

You need $37,000.

You need to start paying $3,000, $3,000 to $4,000 a month on these credit cards and make them go away.

Interest rate becomes irrelevant when you pay this off in one year.

Yeah, that's a good point.

Definitely.

So that's what we're going to do.

We're going to work like

our life depended on it.

We're not going to do anything except work for the next year.

We're not going out to eat.

We're not going on vacation.

And we're going to clean up these credit cards.

List the credit cards, smallest to largest.

Pay minimum payments on everything but the little one.

And

how many cards are involved?

Five, almost four.

I've almost gotten rid of the smallest one, but five total.

Okay.

So four cards on 37,000.

So you're averaging about $8,000,000 or $9,000 a piece, right?

Yeah, average, I suppose.

They are.

Who are they with?

Who are they with?

Chase is the biggest one.

He's got about 18 on it.

Okay.

Call Chase and tell them you talked to your financial advisor who said to close down the account and never do business with Chase again if they don't lower the interest rate.

That

we're going to move the balance to somebody else to a lower rate if you don't lower my rate today.

They'll drop it.

Cool.

Okay.

And do that with every one of them.

They'll drop it.

That'll help a little, but interest rate's not your problem.

It's behavior shift.

You're going to go from an intense gambler to an intense debt repayment guy.

Yeah.

Do you have any other debt?

I do.

I got a car that's about 22 on it and student loans for 16.

Okay.

We'll just put all those on that same list then.

Let's just keep going.

It's going to take two years then.

Yeah, to get it all.

That would be great.

I think if it was done in two, I'd be a happy guy.

Are you done with crypto?

Yeah,

I've stopped completely since.

And I've had other addictive struggles in the past and was able to sort of treat this one the same way.

Yeah, I've got a good community around me.

Okay.

Well, and in a sense,

we're going to use the positive attributes of an addict, which would be focus.

and singular focus.

And we're going to use that on this debt.

You get after it.

Don't look up until it's gone.

Kill it.

And then make it a permanent line in the sand that we never go back for anything.

And obviously,

gambling is not a method of wealth building.

We figured that out too, didn't we?

Went through 100 grand in just a few months

and ending up with a net of $37,000 worth of debt.

Hey, I told...

I was on a podcast this morning as a guest, and the guy was asking me what was going on with sports betting.

I said, I think we're seeing it almost every,

about twice a week we're seeing a call right now where people's lives have been ruined by FanDuel and ruined by MGM gold or whatever because

they're out of control.

The advertising is relentless.

You can't go anywhere without getting the sports.

The reason is they make so stinking much money.

Where do you think they got the money to buy all that advertising?

From the losers.

That's where they got the money, which is everyone that plays it, right?

And so

they end up losing.

And it's mythology, but it's very addictive.

Well, it's become socialized where it's no big deal because we're all watching the game.

I'm not at a casino.

It's not fun to watch the game unless I got something on it.

Yeah, it is.

It's a lot more fun.

By the way, it's a game.

I just need to remind you that.

I didn't know that online crypto casinos.

That's the three words that should never go together.

It's frightening.

That's got to be some kind of seventh circle of hell.

Dante's even shaking in his boots.

Man, what are your demands?

Tristan's in Florida.

Hey, Tristan, what's up?

Hey there.

Thanks for taking my call.

Sure.

How can we help?

I own and operate a photography business.

My soon-to-be wife is planning on resigning from her nine-to-five job and starting to work with me full-time.

Since I'm a one, I've been up to this point a one-man show.

I have no idea how to structure my finances

to pay her to or at least have her

income come through the business as well.

If it's her wife, it doesn't matter.

Right.

You don't even need an income through the business.

The business makes a profit.

Y'all take the profit home and eat.

Okay.

But as far as like

whether you get six or she gets four, it's just ten ending up in that same checking account, right?

Correct.

So you got a business checking account already?

Yes.

Okay.

And you have your personal.

And you've been transferring money over to pay yourself?

Yeah, exactly.

Whenever I need money, I just transfer it over, but I try to keep my expenses very low.

Same thing.

Okay.

Will she be increasing the revenue of the business?

Yeah, yeah, that's the whole

thing.

I hope so.

I hope you all make more if both of you are working there, yeah.

And so what we need to do, the first step is for the keep everything completely separate.

Run the business as if you're running it for someone else.

Like George said, a separate checking account.

He's He's exactly right.

Okay.

And then you pay only business expenses with that account.

And you only put money into that account that comes from the business.

Right.

Okay.

And so the net that's in that account, by definition, is profit.

Okay.

If revenue goes in, expenses go out.

What's left is profit.

That's the definition from an accounting standpoint.

Obviously, you need a good set of books, too.

Then I would leave some in the business for retained earnings, the equivalent of an emergency fund in business.

We need a little pad in there, and then the rest of it comes home and that's profit.

And you can do that just as a monthly decision.

How much we're going to bring home out of there.

We made this much profit.

We're going to leave a little in the business for retained earnings.

We're going to bring the rest of it home.

And then we can put that in the checking account.

You need to hold a fourth of that out for taxes, 25% of it out for taxes in a separate account so you can pay your quarterly estimates and then take the rest of it home.

And that's the easiest way to do it.

The next step is you could really start making some serious money.

You can start paying actual salaries out, but it's not necessary to do that.

Okay, Rachel, the internet officially knows too much about all of us.

So much, George.

I mean, our names, our addresses, even our relatives' names.

And what's crazy is even if you opt out, data broker websites can still get your info.

Don't like that.

And just a year ago, get this.

The average person had about 300 pieces of personal data floating around online.

Now it's over 600.

It has doubled in a year.

Guys, that is so concerning because that info then can be used in phishing scams, impersonation, and even harassment.

That's why George and I both use and love Delete Me.

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Well, if you've never been able to visit the lobby of Ramsey Solutions and watch us do this show on the glass,

which we do from 1 to 4 Monday through Friday, you're going to get a special treat.

We're going to take the show on the road and let you come and watch us do a show.

And better than that, you will be asking the questions from the audience on the live mic.

That's fun.

If you ever wanted to see the person who's calling in, you're going to see them.

They're going to be in the room.

Now's your chance.

Ramsey Show is going on tour, Experience live Q ⁇ A, raw confessions, crowd debates, and a local debt-free screen.

It's all happening live.

The first one will be September the 30th in Chicago.

Rachel, Ken, and George

will be doing this show live on stage with an audience of about 300 folks.

Tickets are a whole $39.

Ooh.

Super expensive.

I think the Uber to the venue is going to cost you more.

For sure.

That's an amazing price.

In Chicago?

For sure.

Yeah.

So anyway, you get to come and hang out.

But the problem with them being $39 is they're going to be gone in about 20 minutes.

So if you want tickets, you probably ought to go buy them like quickly.

Intimate experience.

300 seats in each venue.

And so they're going to go fast.

And it's going to be a blast to go on the road and...

be amongst the people.

Amongst the folks.

Orlando, October the 2nd.

We're doing two this fall, Chicago and Orlando.

September 30 and October 2.

And in Orlando will be Jade, John, and George.

You're doing both of them.

Someone had to chaperone John, and so they sent me out there with him.

Just to make sure that they're going to be able to

chaperone Ken on the other one, so there you go.

Yeah, we got to take care of him.

We got to send a grown-up.

Yep.

All right.

So I'll be headed straight from Chicago to Orlando.

It's going to be a fun time.

And

this is the kind of event that it's going to be hard to experience through radio or video.

You want to be in the room for this kind of experience.

And if you haven't experienced it live, now's your chance because we've never done something like this.

Never have.

First one we've ever done.

So Ramsey Show Live, Chicago, September 30, Rachel, Ken, George, Jay, John, and George, Orlando, October 2nd.

Click the link in the show notes if you're on the podcast or YouTube.

Otherwise, go to ramseysolutions.com slash events.

Jenny's in Idaho.

Hi, Jenny.

How are you?

Hi, Dave.

I'm good.

Thank you.

Cool.

How can we help?

I'm 61 years old,

newly single.

I live in low-income housing.

I have $22,000 left over from the sale of my house in Oregon, and

I don't know what to do.

I'm

newly single.

Divorced?

Sorry, what did you say?

You said newly single.

Are you divorced?

Yes, sir.

Okay.

What do you do for a living?

I work at a training center and I'm a cashier, but I only get about

$25 a week.

Okay.

So

what are we doing to get a better job?

That one sucks.

There,

um,

because of my bad needs,

I

I have a bunch of stuff in a storage unit that needs to be sold.

That one, what I asked.

I asked, what you're doing to get a better job, the job you have sucks.

Nothing right now.

Okay.

You're a cashier and you can't stand.

And you got 25 hours a week.

So

we need a new job.

Yes, sir.

That's true.

You're starving to death.

Not technically, because I still have the business.

Not technically, but I mean,

mathematically, you don't have any money, is my point.

That is correct.

And the reason is, is you don't have much income.

So we've got to work on your career, kiddo.

Yeah, and I have no retirement.

Zero.

Well, we've got to work on your career, kiddo.

You've got $22,000 in the bank, and you're living in a rental property, and you sold your house, and you've gone through a divorce.

Okay.

And you're scared.

Which is understandable.

Okay.

Not to mention stressed.

Yeah, stressed and scared.

Now, that's fair.

Okay.

But let's just pretend for a second.

If we could wave a wand,

and we don't have a wand, and we're not going to do it.

I know.

But let's pretend for a second.

Let's say you started making $50,000 a year.

I've never made $50,000 a year.

I said, let's pretend.

Okay.

Go with me on the ride, girl.

All right, here we go.

You're making $50,000 a year.

You have $4,000 a month coming in.

You're 61.

You have $22,000 in the bank.

All of a sudden, everything changes.

My point of this pretend ride is that

your problem is an income problem.

Yes.

And so when I fix the income problem in our pretend ride or our dream here for a second, all the stress and the fear starts to go away because it's all really revolves and goes back to that one thing.

And that's our biggest deal here.

So have you got any, you got some bad knees.

Okay, do you have a degree in anything?

No, sir.

What's the most you've ever made?

36,000.

Cool.

What were you doing?

I was working at a municipal airport as a custodian, working for the city.

Cool.

How long ago was that?

Two years.

Two and a half years.

Not bad at all.

Okay.

Well, could you still do that kind of work physically?

No, sir.

The knees have gone, huh?

Amen, yep.

Okay.

All right.

Because I was about to put you into the maid service business because you can make $25 to $50 an hour cleaning people's houses, but that's probably not going to work here.

Okay.

No, no.

So this is how I want us to be this is how I want us to be thinking.

I want to be thinking about what we can do

that gets Jenny's income rocking.

And it might be a self-employed thing.

It because that way you can kind of control it rather than just looking for a J-O-B.

A 61-year-old with bad knees looking for a job is tough.

Yes.

Okay.

But if we dream up something that you could physically do,

that'd be pretty cool.

Okay.

What's another good job you've had in the past?

Has been a caregiver.

Oh, those are great.

I can't do caregiving anymore, though, because of my knees and my back.

You could cook.

Yes, sir, I can cook.

Okay.

There we go.

Let's talk about that a minute.

I don't know.

I'm just dreaming with you here because I do know that 25 hours a week as a cashier is not our plan.

It's not going to get us where we need to go.

So something's got to change.

You agree with me on that?

Absolutely.

All right, kiddo.

All right.

So I think you can do this.

We've just got to start,

you know, I want to stick my head up through the fog of the fear and start looking for the sunshine again and start aiming at something.

That's where I'm trying to go with this conversation, okay?

Yeah, yeah.

And because I think, I think you've still got stuff you can do, and I don't know exactly what it is, but I'm going to go figure out something that I start making $25, $30 an hour, and I'm able to do 40 or 50 hours a week, and I'm able to do it with your back and your knees.

And that's possible.

There's things you can do with your mind and with your cooking.

It doesn't always have to be manual labor, right?

Right.

I love the upcycle.

I've got a bunch of furniture that needs to be

sold.

It's fixed and sold, yeah, yeah.

You ever been on eBay?

You ever been on Facebook Marketplace?

I'm technically challenged.

You ever been on Facebook Marketplace?

Could someone help you get a little Facebook Marketplace account?

Any grandkids around?

Take some iPhone pictures and list it.

If your grandkids will show you how to set up an eBay store and a Facebook Marketplace store, let's start buying stuff at garage sales and reselling it.

I'd love that, but I already have enough stuff here to sell.

Well, go ahead and sell all.

Let's start with that stuff.

You got a good inventory to get started.

Let's get a Facebook Marketplace up and use that to learn, sell the crap off and get that storage unit cleaned out.

And then you can go buy a chair for $2 at a garage sale and sell it for $50 on eBay.

Okay.

And you can make $100,000 a year screwing around with that.

Well, there's exciting businesses around this.

I'm now, I'm excited, Jenny.

This is going to be great.

But you're going to have to get somebody to teach you this technical stuff.

But hey, I'm 65 and I've learned enough of it to get through it.

There is one guy that works here that fixes all the stuff I break.

But other than that, I mean, you can learn how to do it.

You can do it.

Hey, hang on.

I'm going to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book, Proximity Principle, which will help you with your career idea.

But

I think you need to start buying and selling stuff on eBay and Facebook Marketplace.

Try that out on the side.

Yeah.

there was a guy one year that made what was it?

He made $800,000 only reselling golf clubs.

Wow.

He would buy used golf clubs at a garage sale, shine them up, and resell them on eBay, and he made $800K in one year.

Our question of the day is sponsored by YReFi.

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Today's question comes from Spencer in Texas.

I have my $1,000 emergency fund and my three months of expenses already saved.

I'm planning to get engaged soon and have a question.

Is that money I made and contributed pre-marriage our $1,000 and three months of expenses?

Or should I take out half of what I contributed and put it towards a joint investment account and have her slowly rebuild the other half of the emergency fund?

This way, it won't feel like she's marrying into financial security and all the sacrifice and dedication I made before we got married.

$1,000?

And the three months of expenses on top of that.

So he has both.

He's got a fully funded emergency fund.

He's saying, should I take out half and make her build it so that she doesn't feel like she's riding a gravy train?

Let me help you, son.

That ain't a gravy train.

It's just an umbrella.

It's not like you're some prize.

Oh my gosh.

This is wild.

No, do not do that at all unless you want to start off your marriage with her.

And don't start off your marriage trying to be her parent.

Really dumb idea.

Yeah, I'm going to make her learn her little lesson, the little lady.

Oh, my God, you arrogant.

No way, dude.

She's going to smack you left way from Sunday.

This ain't going to work.

It sounds like you're bitter for some reason because you're saying, I made all the sacrifice and dedication.

I don't know what she's bringing into this.

Maybe she's got some debt.

Maybe she hasn't been as disciplined with money as you have, but this is a recipe for disaster if you approach it.

You got some pre-marriage counseling to do, honey.

And I hope somebody talks straight to you in that process because the words you're using are not going to help you relationally.

You're going to struggle, and you're going to struggle fast if she's got a backbone, that is.

So, um,

yeah.

I'd love to see this conversation play out, though.

Uh, no, yeah, just for the entertainment value.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, but not, but not because it's going to be successful.

No, successful is, honey, you really hadn't done much yet, so don't be patting yourself on the back so hard.

You'll twist your elbow.

The second thing is, is you don't want to use language on your spouse ever, especially when you're just about to get married.

This sounds like a parent instead of a husband.

A husband is a teammate, not a parent.

And you're not there to

teach the little lady lessons.

That's not your role.

If you think it is, you're about to have a long freaking life.

And so y'all got got some work, you got some work to do on all this.

Yeah, I would not get engaged until you're actually comfortable combining your entire life instead of dangling this as some sort of punishment and thing to be earned.

Yeah, how about it's your job to serve your spouse?

Oh, that'd be different.

Hmm.

Because if you're going, well, she's got to put it in 50%, I got to put it, that's going to be just tit-for-tat scoreboard keeping.

That's an exhausting way to live.

Yeah.

And your job is to serve each other.

So that's how this works.

We're there for each other.

We're not there to

keep score.

Man, scary.

Austin, Wichita Tech, Kansas.

Hi, Austin.

How are you?

I'm good.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

Bill, longtime listener.

Finally jumped on the plan here in the last month or two.

Looking in a year, should have all my consumer debts paid off, and another probably four months after that, have my emergency fund saved up.

My question is: when it gets to the part of saving a down payment for a house, we currently own a home,

have a mortgage on it, and our five-year plan would be to find something a little bigger.

So would you recommend, I mean, could we count our equity as part of a down payment?

And should we still save up a down payment or move on to four, five, and six and pay extra towards the house?

Or how would you go about that?

Well, I mean, you're going to sell the house, right?

Correct.

Yes.

Yeah, so then you've got the equity in your hand, and that is the down payment.

So, sure.

Of course, that counts for the down payment.

And

if you want more than the equity to put down on the next house and you have some savings built up, too, I guess that would be ideal, wouldn't it?

Yes.

What's the house worth?

How much equity have you got now?

So we owe about $94,000 on it, and it's worth around $140,000, $150.

Okay, so you got like $50,000.

And how long before you do this deal?

I mean,

we're obviously not looking until we get the emergency fund and all that saved up.

So it's within the five-year plan, but, of course, it's finding the right thing.

Okay, so five years from now, maybe you owe

$75,000 and it's worth $200.

Yeah.

Okay, which would then mean that you, I'm just making the numbers up, but I mean, mean, then you'd have like, you know, 125 to put down, and you might have saved up some money, too.

Okay.

The other way to do it is just use the mortgage as a forest savings plan and just start plowing through that mortgage once you guys are debt-free with the emergency fund, and then you have all the equity.

Maybe you pay it off before you buy the next one, and you sell that one.

You got all the cash from the proceeds minus the fees, and you roll that into the next one.

That'd be pretty cool.

Yeah.

Yep.

That was definitely an idea.

I didn't know if we should go more towards that route or putting it in savings and having it.

I'd pay the house down.

I'm with George.

That's what I did personally.

And so that's, you know, I do as I say.

That's how I like it.

Aaron's in Davenport, Iowa.

Hi, Aaron.

What's up?

Hey, me and my family of six are looking to move to the border of South Sudan and Uganda as missionaries in a few months.

And we're trying to decide whether we sell the house or rent it.

How long will you be there?

Indefinitely.

Sell it.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah, and I would put the money in some funds.

Let's put the money in a mutual funds.

I'd put it in some good mutual funds and just let it grow.

And I assume you've raised support for your missionary endeavor, right?

We're almost finished raising support.

Okay, so you won't need this money to eat.

Correct.

Yeah, so I'm just sell it.

I don't want to be managing a rental property from Uganda.

No, thank you.

That's a bad idea.

We did have a friend who was going to manage it for us.

That's really scary.

Okay.

That's how you get the Harley oil changed in your living room.

Yeah.

Okay.

No.

No.

Something where you don't have to think about it because

you're entering with four kids.

You're entering a completely different culture.

And

you're going to be on the cutting edge doing missionary work, and you need to be completely focused on that, not worried about the air conditioner that broke back home in Davenport, Iowa.

You know, let's just, you know, mutual funds don't, you don't, they don't have any maintenance.

And so, I'm trying to simplify your life so you can focus on ministry, in other words.

Okay.

Well, thank you.

I appreciate that.

Yeah, that's what I would do in your situation.

If I were in your situation, that's exactly what I'd do.

Sell it, pop the money in mutual funds, and

then when you

if there is a point that this

missionary

endeavor is over and you come home, you got much more money than you started with because it's all sitting there in that investment building up.

You take that big old chunk of money and you buy you a house wherever you're going to land when you come home.

Think about that.

If that money sat there for about seven years, it could double.

It will double.

So that's a pretty good deal versus

14 years.

It would double twice.

I like that plan yeah and so i don't know how long they're going to be there but um yeah he said indefinitely so forever's a long time yeah going with that but to that end dave a lot of people go well i'm moving should i keep it as a rental no that's what we're saying a lot of people experience that especially long distance they go well dave it's a good investment no it's not

real estate can be a good investment when properly structured and properly managed but it is a much higher hassle factor than mutual funds and so um

no, I.

You want to be an intentional real estate investor, not by default.

Exactly.

Exactly.

I want to say, okay,

I got this pile of money.

I'm getting ready to go on the mission field.

Would I go buy a rental house or would I put the money in a mutual fund?

I'd go put the money in mutual fund.

And I love real estate, but not in that situation, I don't.

We've all done dumb things with money.

I've done them with zeros on the end.

One of the biggest mistakes I see people make with money is not having a plan for it.

You got to have a plan.

You got to be intentional and you need to get a budget.

You have to tell your money where to go so you're not wondering where it went.

Our budgeting app, Every Dollar, helps you do just that.

It's the easiest and fastest way to make a monthly plan for every dollar you've got coming in and going out.

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Don't let that happen.

You're done making that mistake.

Go download Every Dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play today.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show.

George Camille, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host.

I'm Dave Ramsey.

Sarah is in Phoenix.

Hi, Sarah.

How are you?

I am blessed.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

How can I help?

Well, I'm not sure if I have a husband problem, a kid problem, or a selfish problem.

I am the breadwinner in my family.

I have 19-year-old twins who are going to a local community college on a presidential scholarship.

I feel like I have failed them because I was never able to pay for their college.

My daughter wants to become a doctor.

And she's saving every dime she's making for her dream.

And my son's undecided at this point.

So they both live at home, and I pay all their living expenses.

Of course, they pay when they go out or whatever outside of that.

My problem is, well, besides I feel like I failed them, my husband

and I haven't been on the same page for many years.

You know, I know what it takes to earn a dollar.

And I've worked two full-time jobs in recent years to get out of debt.

Did you say two full-time jobs?

Yes.

Wow.

Yes.

Okay.

Yeah, we were about $100,000 in debt

when I got laid off in 2011 due to my job getting outsourced.

I'm in software development, and that's when

a lot of jobs were getting outsourced, including mine.

So, yeah, we piled up debt with daycare.

And you worked two jobs and got rid of the debt.

And so what's your question about him?

I don't understand.

Well, so when I was pregnant with my kids he hurt his back and 19 years ago

19 years ago yes okay and actually for the first probably seven years

he literally was in severe pain and has had multiple surgeries on his back

He's been addicted to Oxy and all the other pain drugs.

His last surgery was 2017, maybe,

in which

was a game changer.

He is now opiate-free.

He does

smokeweed.

I say that, sorry,

to manage the pain, but that's all he really does to manage the pain.

And

he gets his Social Security and he's happy with that.

And how old is he?

65 right now.

65.

Yes.

Okay.

And

he's not worked in 19 years.

Right.

Wow.

Right.

But since 2017, it was simply just because he didn't want to.

Right.

And so.

Well, I'm not denying he doesn't have back pain now.

He does.

And

yeah, welcome to being 65, but

I have back pain, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, he's obviously been through a lot and he's clear, but he's clear of the drugs and he's clear of that.

So why do you think he has no ambition?

Because he gets his Social Security and a small check from his prior employer.

You know what THC does to the ambition centers to the brain, don't you?

Now what?

It shuts them down.

There's no such thing as an ambitious w weed smoker.

They're all mellow and perpetually hungry.

Yep.

Gaining weight, too, huh?

No, he's been pretty

much the same over the years, yeah.

Good, okay.

That's good.

Because that doesn't help the back, obviously, but yeah, that generally goes with the munchies.

Yeah.

So are you clearly building resentment for the last 19 years now because you've been carrying the load, you know, mentally and physically to take on the work.

What is the actual problem at hand we're trying to solve right now?

Because it sounds like there's multiple things.

You feel bad as a mother for not cash flowing your kids' dreams.

You're angry at him.

He doesn't have the ambition.

Are you still trying to accomplish a financial goal that you're working so hard for?

Or is this all you know?

Yeah.

I want to retire one day.

And,

you know, he just bought a brand new truck.

With cash?

Well, two-thirds of the cash.

We have a...

And you went along with that.

So you're going along.

You get what you tolerate.

Since 2017, you've tolerated this, and he didn't buy a truck without your knowledge.

You went along with it.

Did you co-sign for the truck?

Yes.

Yeah.

So

you've got to decide, you know, you can't gripe about this stuff when you freaking participate in it.

Okay, so 2017,

his back's okay.

The pain is down.

He's able to go to work.

And you don't push the issue.

Eight years ago.

So, and, you know, he wants to, but he just bought a new truck.

No, he didn't.

We just bought a new truck.

You went with him.

You signed the papers.

You can't blame that on him.

You did it.

So, yeah, you guys need to sit down with a good marriage counselor

because you're quickly losing respect with the guy you're going to spend your twilight years with.

And so,

yeah,

you guys need to get aligned on where you're going with your dreams, and you're not.

You do have what you have is a marriage problem.

That's what you have.

It's not a husband problem, it's a marriage problem.

But you get what you tolerate.

And so

the difference is at our house, was I doing that, Sharon would have confronted that about 35 seconds after she felt like I should have gotten a job.

Her idea of hard work, she grew up on the farm.

And so she would have been going,

what's your butt doing on the couch while I'm working?

This don't play.

And I mean, we speak hillbilly at our place.

It's pretty direct.

So, you know, that's not,

you know, so that's what it is.

You've been tolerating this for so long that it's become normalized.

And bless his heart, he probably thinks it's all okay.

It ain't okay, by the way.

I agree with you.

But

your part that you've played in it is by allowing it.

So I think the two of you need to sit down with the marriage counselor immediately.

This is not going to go well if you don't.

Because, you know, you're going to go into your later years and you're going to get increasingly pissed.

And that's not a way to spend your old age.

So, yeah, that's what's going on.

Yeah.

And it sounds like he might have lost some purpose.

He might be depressed.

And so he got to find his mojo.

That'll do it.

That'll suck out all the ambition.

That'll do it.

That was the sound of ambition leaving the room.

I heard it.

Sorry, boys and girls.

I know that offends some of you, but oh, well, this is actual data.

It's not just Dave's moralistic opinion.

And,

you know, yes, I'm old, and yes, Pot's been around longer than you.

So that's how this works.

So,

yeah.

It's just more normalized these days.

When I was a kid, it was like a dangerous drug and we were all going to to hell.

But now it's like a normal thing.

So,

you know.

But it has real effects.

It does.

One of those consequences is you're not going to be like, I'm going to go run a marathon now.

Let's go.

Yeah.

I'm going to tackle the world and open a business and I'm going to go be somebody.

Said no weed hit ever.

Hey guys, Rachel Cruz here with a big announcement.

The Ramsey Show Live is going on tour.

This is your chance to no longer just listen on your daily commute, but be in the room where life change happens.

We're removing the wall between caller and audience so you can take part in money confessions, hot takes, and more.

Plus, you'll hear live callers get answers to their pressing questions.

I'll be in Chicago on September 30th alongside George Camille and Ken Coleman.

Then George, Jade Warshaw, and and Dr.

John Deloney will be in Orlando on October 2nd.

Tickets start at $39 and are limited to just 300 seats in each city.

So don't wait, especially if you want one of the 50 VIP tickets that includes a meet and greet, the best seats in the house, and more.

It'll be a night full of hope, community, and the kind of energy you can only get in person.

Get your tickets today at ramseysolutions.com/slash the Ramsey Show Live, or just click the link in the show notes.

Jess is in Charlotte.

Hi Jess, how are you?

I'm good Dave.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

Yes, sir.

So I'm kind of in a mess, but I feel like I'm still young and learning.

So

I have about, you know, $3,000 in credit card debt.

And

I've sold my car and tried to consolidate some other debt.

And I took out a personal loan, but that is at a very high interest rate.

And it's about $8,000.

And then I have at $72,000 in student loan.

$72,000?

$72,000, yes, sir.

In student loan.

Okay.

Yeah.

And I'm pretty much my current job is current, causing a lot of health issues.

And I'm not supposed to have like a second job technically, but I have a small cleaning business that, you know, I do make good money, but I can't do it full-time out of fear of, you know, leaving my full-time and not.

Why is your full-time causing health issues?

It's just a lot of high demand and a lot of, you know, trying to get people in trouble behind their backs and things like that.

That doesn't cause health issues.

It's stressing me a little bit.

I even ended up in the emergency room.

You ended up in the emergency room because of anxiety?

More like heart

issues there, thinking it was...

They were thinking cardiac, but not

stress-related.

More like a panic attack.

Yeah, could be.

Could be.

But, you know, I'm only 33, so

I shouldn't be going.

What do you make at the stress job?

About $70,000.

What do you do?

I work in like human resources.

In what?

In human resources.

Human resources.

Yeah.

So you're the office all the stress comes and sits in?

Yeah.

I guess you can say that.

Yeah.

How big a company?

It's pretty big.

Way over 500 employees, way over 1,000, actually.

So it's pretty big.

Is leadership not doing anything about the toxic environment?

Not as much as they should.

Changes have been made, but

it's difficult, and it's going to take some time to get control of it, to be honest, in my opinion.

Nah.

Just start firing them.

Are you in a position to do that?

I'm not.

I'm not.

It takes a lot of time.

I can get control of it in about an hour and a half.

I bet.

I bet, but it's so much red tape.

It's only 500 people.

That's not red tape.

I got 1,100 working here.

Yeah, well, it's over 500.

It's a huge, it's massive.

What is it over 10,000 or over 500?

I would say it's over 2,000 people.

Okay, that's a little different than 500.

Yeah.

I'm so confused.

Okay.

Okay, so you're in a job that sucks and you can't do anything about it, but it pays good.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So you need a new job, huh?

Yeah, and I've been trying.

I'm trying really hard.

I am.

I'm applying all the time.

But, I mean, I guess as of right now, I'm just, I think the debt is a lot as well.

It's just,

but I don't know if I can't just quit because that'll make it worse.

No, you can't quit.

You're broke.

Yeah.

But you do need a new job that pays the same amount and doesn't have all the trash in it.

Yeah, absolutely.

If you you didn't call us, what was going to be your next move?

Honestly, to pull my retirement from retirement and pay off what I can and then try to scale my cleaning business a lot.

Glad you called us first.

Yeah, that's borrowing money.

You're going to be hit with your tax rate plus 10%.

So you're going to be hit with about a 30 or 40 percent hit.

And that's like saying, Dave and George, I want to borrow money at 40% interest to open my cleaning business.

Nope, bad idea.

So why do they not allow you to work on the side?

It's just in the clause.

I think what they're saying is should be your primary

focus and you can't have anything outside of it, like a part-time job.

And then sometimes we have to work overtime.

So eight to five could easily go from eight to six or seven.

Okay.

Well,

I don't think you've got a methodology to jump straight to the cleaning business because I don't think you can grow your cleaning business big enough that you're comfortable walking away from a $70,000 income.

Yeah.

So you've got to walk into another job that does not have the contractual obligation to have no side hustle.

And then you take your side hustle and you grow it until it gets big enough that you've got some confidence.

Right now, it's a dream.

It's not really proven.

Yeah.

Because it's a small amount of money.

It's nowhere near $70,000.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

So you need a new job first that pays you what you make now or more, that's not got the horrible environment,

and does allow outside work, and then you begin to work on your other stuff.

Meantime, you do have $70,000 plus a little bit coming in from your side hustle, your illegal side hustle.

And that means you can begin to attack this $3,000 credit card.

Okay.

Which means no more switching around the debt, consolidating the debt.

We're just going to attack the debt.

We're going to move through it.

Yeah.

You got to bust right straight into it.

You do make 70 grand.

I mean, hello, girl.

So you're bringing home four or five grand a month?

Thank you.

Yeah.

Almost, yeah.

Just about.

How big was your tax refund last year?

Not much, honestly.

Good.

Good.

And you're not investing right now at all?

I am into my retirement.

Yeah, I would stop your retirement temporarily and let's attack this debt head-on.

Okay.

And we'll see, I'm forced to through my job.

We can't not do it because it matches it, so we have to take out a certain amount.

No, you don't.

Not unless you're in a governmental, not unless you're in a governmental position or working for the railroad.

Okay.

And you're not in either one.

You should know that.

You're in HR.

I know.

There's no such thing as mandatory retirement

in a private company.

Okay.

Okay, I'll definitely look at that.

And I guess my thing is I think my biggest one is the consolidation debt.

Right now, it's like at $8,000.

But the interest rate is crazy.

The biggest one is you need to cut up his stupid credit card and get it cleared.

And then you work on the $8,000.

$11,000 cleans up a lot.

Okay.

And $11,000 out of 70-plus cleaning toilets, you can get there pretty quick.

The interest rate if you stay out of restaurants and you don't go on vacation.

And I'm going to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book, Proximity Principle, which will help you actually get those applications through because just sending an application randomly is of no value when you're looking for a job.

That's come up several times in the last couple of weeks with me here on the Air George, and it seems to be a thing.

Like we had one guy said, I sent out

160 applications and no one called back.

That's because all you did is fill out applications.

We filled under 200 positions at Ramsey last year, and we had 15,000 applications.

Do you think we looked at all of those?

No, we did not.

So, how did it get out of the pile?

Some way or another, someone differentiated themselves other than just blindly filling out stuff digitally just to throw it against the wall, see if something sticks.

And one way is you know somebody that works there and you go, hey, at least give my buddy a look here.

He or she's good, right?

And that's called the proximity principle.

And I'll send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book.

But just sending out applications is a complete waste of calories.

Don't bother.

No one's going to call you and go, you know, out of 22,000 people, you're the one.

No, that doesn't happen because you're not the one.

Well, all the resumes look the same now because everybody's just using AI to write the resume, and then it filters out the AI resumes, and so we're back at square one.

Yeah, that's what we've got to know someone.

One of the things we do, AI is used at Ramsey to filter out AI.

How fun is that?

It's come full circle.

The robots are fighting the robots.

Yes, someone needs to take it.

It's a beautiful thing.

Yeah, it's good.

So, yeah, that's what you've got to do.

And meantime, I think I'd be having some frank discussions with leadership if there's so much toxicity and stress sitting in an HR department that

their culture sucks that bad inside the organization.

I'd be having some conversations with leadership about

what we can do to clean this up.

Like, who needs to be fired?

Yeah, it should not feel like a reality show over an HR.

Yeah.

And I can fix that.

Let them take their crap somewhere else.

If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feeling like you can't get ahead, join one of our free

Every Dollar Trainings.

These are trainings that are happening every week this month, and they're always hosted by one of the Ramsey personalities.

George, when's the next one you're doing?

I got one tomorrow.

So if you're watching this on August 19th, join us on the 20th for the webinar.

We're going to show you how to stick to a budget, and in the process, you're going to find thousands and thousands of dollars a margin.

Use every dollar so you can get out of debt and start building wealth.

And you can ask us any question during the live Q ⁇ A, which is rather entertaining and fun.

By the way, did we mention it's free?

Go to ramseysolutions.com slash webinar.

Lisa's in Vegas.

Hi, Lisa.

What's up?

Hi.

Thank you so much for taking my call.

So we are a one-income family and

my husband and I, he's a stay-at-home parent for now while our kids are young.

That's a choice that was really important to us.

We have a rental property that brings us about $500 a month.

And we decided last year to, well, a couple of years ago, to start a company.

The company did okay, but did not work out all the way.

And between some investments that didn't work out and the company, right now we are $75,000

in debt with a HELOC.

You lost $75,000 on the startup?

Yes.

It was, yes.

We had several things that didn't work out, and we also were not wise with our money.

Wow, that's an ouchie.

Yeah, yeah.

And so and then our car died in November, and because we had just TLOC, we couldn't use our regular credit union for a low-rate interest loan, and all of our savings had been used up in that.

So now we also have a $285

payment, monthly payment on a car that's worth about $10,000.

What do you owe on the car?

Just about $11,000.

So no, so it's about $10,000.

So how much can you get out of the rental property?

So the rental property,

the equity that we could get out of it would be $186,000.

Good.

Sell it and pay off all your debt.

And that's kind of what we wanted to know.

We really want to get a lot of money.

When you lost the business, you lost the rental property.

Okay, got it.

That's what what happened.

You just didn't admit it because you borrowed it.

Uh-huh.

So, yeah, now you got a high-interest car loan.

You got to quit borrowing money, girl.

Yeah, we're trying.

No, you're not.

You just turned around and bought a car.

You're not trying hard.

You got to stop borrowing money.

It's killing you.

No, we just started your program over the last month, and we've done everything that you said.

So

we're heading that way.

So thank you.

Good.

I hope.

Please, please.

I mean, I want you to win.

What do you make?

I make about 80 grand.

Okay, good.

And

with no car payments and no a HELOC payment, can you guys make it?

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

We're completely fine.

But prior to that, we're almost at free other than our mortgage.

How much is owed on the mortgage?

So our personal mortgage,

we owe $228,000.

Cool.

Okay.

Well, I'm going to fully fund it.

I'm going to pay off all my debt out of the the 180.

That's going to use up 100 of this, or it's going to use up 90 of this.

And

then I'm going to build an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses.

And

that's probably 25 grand here.

Something like that.

Yeah, we're thinking about 30.

And then I'm going to put a big chunk on the house and let's start talking about getting this house paid off.

You'll knock that mortgage down to like one, I mean, down to $150,000 and start knocking that out.

One of the questions I had also is one of our main goals to getting out of debt is we want to be able to save money for our kids' college.

And so our oldest is about to turn 10.

So we have about eight years.

If you want to take five grand each and get the college funds started with your Smart Investor Pro, that'd be fine.

Okay.

And then let's chunk the rest of it on the house and

make sure we're doing our 15% of our household income now into retirement.

That's maybe step four.

Kids' college is five.

Six is pay off the house.

And so that's what it's going to put you because you're going to be out of debt and have the emergency fund with the sale of the rental.

The good news is you had something that bailed you out.

The bad news is if you don't learn your lesson, next time there's not going to be something to bail you out.

So you really have to draw a line in the sand and say, okay, that 2025 year, that was the year we promised we're never borrowing money again for anything freaking ever, no matter what.

It's a big shift.

If you commit to that, you're going to be just fine no matter what comes your way.

Well, stuff comes your way, it's going to be hard, but it's not as hard as going into debt and not having a rental property to sell to get out.

So you'll be in a pinch next time.

No payments with an emergency fund, you'll be in a different position.

Yeah, you'll be in a sweet land.

That's an awesome thing.

So, absolutely.

Cody is with us in Seattle, Washington.

Hi, Cody.

How are you?

I'm good.

How are you doing today?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

Excellent.

I have a fun marital debate for you guys to try and sell for me and my wife.

Okay.

We are debating on whether we should

pause 401k investing to pay off the house.

How much is owed on the house?

400.

What percentage of your income are you putting into 401k?

15%.

So you're doing what we teach.

Okay.

But there's a slight catch to that, though.

And I don't know if this matters or not, but our employers, they don't do matching.

They just do profit sharing at 15%.

That's why I was on the side of let's just do it and pay the house off and be free of this.

What's your household in?

150% is

$250,000.

Okay.

So it's only $45,000 a year.

Yeah.

$45,000 a year doesn't solve a $400,000 problem.

I mean, if you stop your $401K, you benefit $45K.

You owe $400,000.

That's a 10-year plan.

Well,

we're currently on track to pay it off, and

we just started throwing after we paid all our debts and everything off.

Yeah, how much are you throwing at the house now?

How much are you throwing at the house now?

100K.

100K.

$400K a year.

Okay, so you'll be done in four years without this.

And if you do this, you'll be done in two years.

Yes.

That's the only difference?

No?

Not quite.

Yeah,

it's about an 18-month difference, actually.

It's not a full two years.

Okay.

And how much is in the 401ks now?

700.

Okay.

And how old are you guys?

I am 38, and the wife is 35.

Okay.

All right.

You've done a great job, by the way.

Congratulations.

There's not a wrong answer to this.

There's no answer in this that puts your face in the stupid column.

I mean, this is both of these are smart things.

Both ways you're going to end up ahead.

You'll either be a multi-millionaire or a multimillionaire.

So it's just

your call.

It's your call.

Yeah.

So

what we're arguing about is not philosophically stopping a 401k.

What we're arguing about is 18 months faster or 20 months or 100 or 24 months faster.

That's all we're arguing.

Is Is it two years faster or not?

Where are you putting the 45K in profit sharing?

Because you can't, I mean, you'll max out a retirement plan pretty quick.

No, it's 45K.

He's putting in 15%, and then they're throwing 15%

in on profit sharing on top of it.

That's why the thing's grown so fast.

Did I understand that right?

Yes, that's correct, Dave.

Yeah, and you get the 15% from the company whether you put in anything or not, right?

Yes, sir.

Okay.

And you've already got 700 in there.

So, yes, sir.

it's a technical argument.

And truthfully, the core answer is it doesn't matter.

You're going to be a multi-millionaire or you're going to be a multi-millionaire.

Like George said, that's the core answer.

It's because you've done such a good job on everything else.

And so the only argument is 18 months or 24 months, which one do we want to do?

And I

My tendency is just to stick with the baby steps because they worked so well.

And and I would just take a little bit longer and pay off the house and not worry about it.

And at your age, that level of missing out on investing 20 years from now, that's a lot.

That's a lot of money.

Yeah, you're leaving on the table by not investing.

And make sure all that's Roth

so that it's growing tax-free from this point forward.

But yeah,

I'm probably going to just stay right where you are with the 15% and take four years to pay off the house instead of taking two.

But it's truthfully, I'm not going to be mad at you either way.

What's up, guys?

George Camill here.

If you've been thinking about making a real difference in your community, this is your moment.

People are drowning in money stress right now, and you can be the one who helps them by leading a Financial Peace University class.

It's totally free for you, and we hook you up with all the tools and support you need.

So, if you're ready to help people ditch debt, save money, and actually sleep at night, go to fpu.com/slash lead to learn more.

That's fpu.com slash lead.

Our scripture of the day, Galatians 6, 9, let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap if we do not give up.

Max Dupree said, we cannot become what we want by remaining what we are.

Mara is with us in St.

Paul, Minnesota.

Hi, Mara.

How are you?

Good.

Thank you so much for taking my call.

Sure.

How can we help?

So my husband and I are 33 years old, and we are on baby steps four, five, and six.

Through my husband's

job, he has some RSUs as part of his compensation.

And so we are looking at using a large portion of those to start doing some non-retirement investing.

And I just wanted to get your thoughts on

a wealth manager versus a financial advisor.

We've only met with a wealth manager so far.

And I had a little bit of pause just in

how they

kind of actively manage your money for you.

Okay, explain what they were doing.

Well, this was just an informal first call with them.

But from what I gathered,

they would have access to our accounts and they would actively be choosing what type of investments.

No, thank you.

I think quite

that's that's what I thought, knowing that I'm a longtime listener of yours.

No, thank you.

Yeah, I do.

It's your job, not theirs.

They don't get to mess with my money without my permission.

Okay.

I did meet with one of your Smart Vestor Pros about five years ago, or we both did.

He was a financial planner,

and it was kind of just a one-time touch point where he gave us some recommendations on what to do with our 401ks at that time.

But he really didn't try to pursue any type of

follow-up.

So we're looking to have more of a relationship, which I have.

A smart investor pro should be an ongoing relationship that they teach you about investing.

They never do a transaction without you first having approved it

and you are in charge of your money, but they're there to advise you, to help you, and to teach you.

And so my Smart Investor Pro has been a personal friend for 25 years, and he'll just call up and go, hey, Dave, did you know that such and such is happening with the tax changes?

And I went, hmm, that's interesting.

He goes, you know, you could move that over there.

I went, oh, that's a good idea.

Okay.

Thanks for calling me.

Yeah, let's do that.

And that's how the conversation sounds.

But that's after me functioning with him for 25 years.

But in no case am I giving them the keys to the car and telling them to drive wherever they want to go.

Yeah.

Okay.

I'm trying to just sort out.

I think, again, we met with a financial planner.

I think we're looking for more of a financial advisor this time where he's, like you said, advising us how to do things with money and teaching us.

Yes.

But not

a lot of it might be semantics.

I think your Smart Investor Pro is really what you're looking for, I think, in this situation.

And you just, again,

you're doing some non-retirement investing in some good mutual funds.

You're going to pick the mutual funds.

You're going to pick the strategy that you're going to use.

You're going to want low turnover mutual funds because you're not going to be taxed as you go because low turnover means they don't sell the stocks inside of it, doesn't activate the taxes.

And when you do take the money out, if you left it in there at least a year, it's going to be taxed at capital gains rate rather than ordinary income rate.

So that's a low turnover ratio set of mutual funds is a great way to position this particular portfolio.

But you need to go sit with someone and learn all of that and then agree to that.

And then they say, okay, here's some examples of some funds that do that.

Yeah, let's go with that one.

And I don't like that one.

And I like the track record on this one.

And tell me what I'm missing.

And they can talk to you.

But in no case are they driving the car.

This is not Ferris Bueller's day out with my money.

Yeah, what that leads to is you call us three years from now and says, my financial advisor did all this crazy stuff with my money and I had no idea.

You're going, why weren't you involved?

Yeah.

So that's what

this is the definition of how a Smart Vestor Pro works.

And that's why we have them and that's why we vetted them to do that.

And so, you know, I would just jump online and interview two or three of them in your area and find the one that matches your all style and your personality the best and that you have the most comfort with.

Yeah, explain exactly what you're looking for.

But again, you are making making 100% of the decisions with your money.

When you don't do that, you're about to get screwed

because you've got someone that doesn't have as much money as you making decisions for your money.

That's dumb.

No, we're not doing that.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, please, no, please, no.

So good question.

That's interesting.

All right.

Jake is with us in Los Angeles.

Hi, Jake.

How are you?

Good.

How are you, Dave?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

Yeah, thanks for taking my

So I'm a 25-year-old PhD student in aerospace engineering at the University of Southern California.

And my question is, or I guess some quick background is: I've been following your advice for about six or seven years now.

I finished my undergrad degree in aerospace engineering debt-free four years ago.

And then I got my master's degree in aerospace engineering at USC two years ago, debt-free as well.

Wow.

And a lot of my friends who didn't get a scholarship finished in, you know,

$100,000, $150,000 of debt.

And they'll be spending, you know, a long time paying that back.

But my question is: so, I've been in the PhD program for four years, so I got my master's degree two years into that, and I got the master's degree for free because the PhD pays for your master's degree tuition.

So, I kind of followed your principles and made sure that I didn't go into debt for that.

But, my question is:

sorry?

I said, Good for you.

Well done.

Yeah, thank you.

So, my question is:

Yeah, so I've been in the PhD program for four years.

I kind of see, and there's not really an end in sight as far as when I might finish.

It might be a year, two years from now.

And I'm not necessarily going to be making any more money.

And it's a very multifaceted decision, but I'm just kind of curious, you know, from a financial perspective, whether I should drop out or not.

Because on one hand, I do have a full-on scholarship, and it can get me the rest of the way through,

but I'm not necessarily going to be making any more money.

And I'm kind of missing out on the opportunity costs of, you know, they pay us about $90,000 free tuition, but that doesn't really, you know, do much past the certain, you know, saying more classes doesn't really help past a certain point.

But they do pay us about forty five thousand dollars for living expenses um as part of the scholarship um but if i was in industry i could have been making you know a hundred thousand or a hundred ten thousand um the last couple years and if i stay in the program a couple years longer why did you why did you enter the phd program

yeah that's a really good question um so for me kind of the two careers uh long term that i'm kind of bouncing between are um The PhD program in the first place was so I could get the free masters and then I could kind of decide from there what I want to do.

So I didn't want to go 100K in debt.

I wanted to go go to USC.

And then once I got here, I kind of figured out if you want to become an astronaut, which obviously is a very far-fetched goal, you kind of need a PhD to do that as a civilian, as a non-chet pilot.

So that's kind of the reason I kind of continued.

And USC obviously is a good school socially and everything to be at, but you probably don't want to hear.

But then there's this other side of me which wants to go be an entrepreneur.

You don't really need a PhD for that.

And financially, I'm just kind of

throwing away opportunity costs.

So I could be making a lot more salary and I could be starting side hustles and stuff like that, which I can't really do right now.

You got to do dissertation to close it out.

And

what's the shortest possible timeline?

Because you said the timeline's a little bit vague.

Why?

It's different for every PhD, and that's kind of the way, you know, some PhDs are very clear-cut and some are not super clear-cut.

I would say it's the shortest is probably about a year,

but you know, two years might be on the table as well.

Why would it take longer than a year?

I would say it just depends on the progress of the research.

I made a lot of progress the last year or so, so I'm probably about to.

So you're down to your dissertation.

That's it.

Yeah, most likely.

Yeah.

Have you just lost steam on it?

You're just not excited about it anymore?

Okay.

Yeah, I'm not as excited.

And I'm also, again, there's just kind of the

option.

You're itching for some real-world experience.

I'm not sure.

I have a couple of friends that have funny stories about their dissertation periods.

But the impression I got from them and their stories was that the dissertation is a little bit like writing a book.

The first time I wrote a book, I learned this.

Well, actually, it's about the third time I wrote a book before I finally got this advice from a real publisher that knew what they were doing.

He said, you're never going to get finished.

You finally just stop and print it.

So you're never going to get finished.

You need to finish this.

You need to put it on a timeline.

And if you can be done in a year, I would stick it out and knock it out.

You're 20.

Just say,

I'm going to knock this out in a year.

I'm going to finish this.

I'm going to limit the amount of research.

I'm not going to go down all the rabbit holes.

I'm not going to win an award on the dissertation anyway.

I just want the PhD.

I'm going to finish this.

That puts this Hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.

We'll be back with you before you know it.

In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

Up next, we are headed out to Chicago and Orlando for the Ramsey Show Live.

Yep, you heard me right.

We are taking this show to you.

This is going to be everything you love about the Ramsey Show, except you get to be a part of it.

Part of what, George?

The Ramsey Show Live.

Okay, that's what I'm telling them about.

Ramsey Show Live in here?

Nope, we're doing it on the road.

You're going to Chicago with me and Rachel Cruz September 30th.

Are you free?

The windy city.

I like it that time of year.

You know what else I like, George?

I like the deep dish.

Oh, okay.

Maybe we'll have some deep dish.

You mind if I finish the promo?

Is that okay with you?

Okay.

Okay.

Appreciate that.

Questions and answers, real conversations, and I'm sure a few surprises here and there.

George, are you in here talking about TRS Live?

I am, Jade.

I'm trying to talk about it.

Nice.

So that means it's actually happening, right?

It's happening.

If I could tell the people, I think it could actually come to fruition.

Listen, just tell me when and where.

You don't know?

Okay, we're going to Orlando.

You're going to join Dr.

John Deloney and I October 2nd.

Yes.

Okay, great.

I'm going to go pack now.

Please, please do that.

Go.

Pack.

Hey, George, speaking of packing, is this like sweater weather or is it not that cold yet in Chicago?

What is happening?

Can I please just get to how they buy the tickets?

Geez, I thought it was a good question.

Okay, this is not an arena tour.

This is a one-night-only event in Chicago and Orlando.

General admission is only $39.

Plus, there's a VIP experience if you're bougie like that.

But here's the thing: there's only 300 seats available.

So get your tickets now at ramseysolutions.com/slash events.

Hey, how come you get to go to both cities?

I just go where they tell me, man.

Hey, have you been there the entire time?

Maybe.

Okay, and also, are you reading a children's book?

I'm expanding my mind, George.

That's how we got those PhDs.

Yeah, that's probably where you got that jacket.

Okay.

See you on the road, John.