Discipline Matters Most in the Hard Times

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From the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, co-host of the Ramsey Network hit.

smart money happy on and my daughter she's my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five two two five Stella is in Arizona hi Stella

hello how can we help today

um well

a big question that I have what recommendations do you have

to increase your income

while being a homeschool parent

How do you increase your income while being a home school parent?

Oh, well, let me elaborate a little bit.

Well,

my situation with my husband is not that good, and I plan to eventually file for divorce

once this home school year finishes.

So for now, since I'm a full time a homeschool parent.

I don't have any

work right now.

So, I was wondering what kind of kids

you're talking about in May,

that's the end of the homeschool year?

Yes, correct.

And how many children do you have, huh?

I have two children.

What are you?

They're very young.

Four and one.

What are you homeschooling a four-year-old?

I'm sorry.

How is a four-year-old in homeschool?

Well, pre-K, so foundation for

reading,

language arts, and math.

So yeah, I still full-time, and especially when I, since I have my

my younger son, he's one, so he still definitely depends on me.

He's very attached to me, and he should be.

Okay, so if you file divorce, you understand that you're going to be working full-time.

Oh, yes, I understand.

And the kids are not, you're not going to be homeschooling ever again.

Yes, I who's going to take care of the kids, who's going to take care of the children?

Well,

I was already thinking on

enrolling them on daycare also,

a local preschool.

How long has it been since you've been in the workplace?

Well, it has been

about a year.

Okay.

What were you doing before?

Oh, wow.

Well,

I was working for a gas company.

For what company?

For a gas company.

A gas company.

What were you making, Stella, at that position?

Oh, at that position,

I was making around

I was making around fifty four thousand a year however um well I recently got an offer letter that I could be making probably forty dollars an hour uh due to the experience that I have so hopefully at least

are you in like any immediate

like can you stay in this marriage till May

oh yes just okay so there's not like a husband provided

what what's wrong with your marriage huh

well

I think

during a marriage, you should be able to negotiate those terms of the initial plans.

For instance, my husband and I agreed that we will be homeschooling our children at the very beginning of our marriage.

And everything was going fine since I was working also from home.

My kids were little, so that was manageable.

But for instance, it came to a point that I was able to change jobs

working outside of the house.

And

my husband didn't really like that.

And also it was a little hard for me to be away from my daughter.

So that's that does not sound like a reason to end a marriage.

We also

we

well, for instance, I wanted to work and now that my son is one year old.

However, my husband's values difference.

So have you guys done counseling?

Have you guys worked have you s sought a professional?

Well, I have suggested that, of course, to my husband since

we have been gotten into any argument about finances and our home schooling.

But

yeah, for instance, I have suggested that, and my husband does not

think it's a very good thing.

Have you seen someone, Stella?

I'm sorry.

Have you seen someone professionally?

Yourself?

We have done individually.

Okay.

It was two years ago, and

honestly, we gave up.

Okay.

Well,

everything in my mind,

I would exhaust

every level of energy and effort and time and money to make this marriage work.

And

the reasons that you're giving me, and I'm sure there are symptoms of bigger things going on underneath, you know, from a depth-level perspective with your marriage.

But

I would push you to go back before you make this decision.

I would implore you to go and sit down and be in therapy for months and see what else can can change in your marriage that this doesn't have to be the outcome.

And if you still get to this, if you still get to this place that you are going to, you know, that this is the route and you're going to file for a divorce, then,

I mean, then I would start working.

I wouldn't be homeschooling right now.

I would, I would be, I would be back in the workforce and not let the first time to be in the workforce is in the middle of a divorce.

But again, I would want that to be,

I would want you guys to do a lot of work.

Since especially the school year.

It's a four-year-old, okay?

Yeah, that I would not, I would, I would not put that pressure on yourself.

I mean, even kindergarten, right?

Like, if you got to repeat kindergarten,

that's pretty light.

Yeah, that's light lifting.

Some kids don't even do preschool and go straight to kindergarten.

So I would not hedge so much weight on this Europe for quote-unquote homeschool for your kids.

I would be waiting my marriage, the work around that, and or getting back into the workforce.

Or both.

Yeah, or both.

And say, you know, okay, I'm announcing the kids are going into daycare, and I'm taking this new job, and I'm going to see a marriage counselor.

Will you come with me?

Because

if you don't, we're probably going to end this, but I'm going to go work on it.

And I want to work on it together.

And if you want to give it a try, this is how it's going to go.

And I'm going to make an announcement.

This is is what's happening.

And it's not a question.

It's not asking permission.

It sounds like he wants you to be doing this.

Stating that's what I'm going to do.

You take that offer letter, $40 an hour, you go to work to get in daycare.

Let's do it.

And because that's what's coming anyway.

Might as well just decide and do it and

then

make the moves.

But I'm with Rachel.

I'm having trouble connecting

with you

enough that I can understand why this is going on.

So I think you do need to follow Rachel's suggestion.

I've been doing this show for over 30 years, and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable.

Yeah, and what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible, are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance.

We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance.

And and i'm like i can't even imagine or even if it was opposite right if if a mom passed away there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out how am i going to afford childcare how do i how do i outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level like when you have to think through how am i going to pay my bills how am i in the middle next week yeah in the middle of all that grief like it's just it is it's terrible and so life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that i'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive.

Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance.

And we keep re-upping it because I'm like, I just want it there.

Like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if something suddenly happens.

And it doesn't cost much because Xander shops among a gazillion different companies.

It doesn't cost much.

You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here.

You got to say it out loud and you got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place.

The cost of stinking pizza.

There really is.

So that is one thing to do to say I love you to your family.

So we've used Xander for all of our families' needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance.

To get a free quote, go to 800-356-4282.

That's 800-356-4282 or go to zander.com.

Bob is in New Hampshire.

Hey, Bob, how are you?

I'm doing okay, I guess, Dave.

Cool.

How can we help?

Well,

we've for quite a while now, we've had financial problems with bills.

We owe a lot of

debt, and

one of the problems is my wife has a habit of spending constantly, and

she pretty much goes through all of the income that we have in a month.

We've had discussions over it and everything, and you know,

it doesn't set in, but it is a little bit.

I mean,

she's a little better, but she just has this habit of when she walks in the store, she's got to buy.

Okay, how can we we help?

Well,

my question is

as to what direction should I be using to,

I guess, get her to stop completely from

wasting the money and then being able to catch up on things.

I mean, Bob, when you say that, I mean, you're saying that she's spending the whole paycheck.

So, would you,

I mean, would you think it's a level of addiction?

Would you say it?

Would you go that far?

Oh, yes.

Okay.

Yes, yes.

And has she gotten help for it?

Besides you just telling her not to?

Okay, why not?

Yeah, yeah.

We've had numerous discussions on it.

Because you're not going to change her.

She has to do the work to understand what is happening for her because it's a real thing.

I mean, we see that more often than, I mean, it's becoming more and more common, I feel like.

So, why has she not taken steps to find healing in this?

Well,

the strange thing is she knows that

she's, you know,

the problem to

our problem.

And,

you know, she's always feeling sorry for it.

But,

you know, when the income comes in, she goes out and she spends and she doesn't look at what she's spending.

In other words, she'll go all

the way to groceries.

Pardon me?

How old are you, too?

She's 78, and I'm going to be 73 in the next couple of weeks.

But why don't you just take her?

Like, she can't have access to the money.

Like, if it's an addiction like this, this is what we would tell couples: is to say the one that is struggling does not get access to money because she has a spending addiction.

And you would say, all right, we're going to have X amount for groceries.

And when you go to the grocery store, this is, you know, if that's what she does, then here's the amount you have.

But she doesn't get access to the checking account.

Yeah, and to the income.

What is your income monthly?

Believe it or not, it's over $7,000.

Okay.

I believe it.

And how much debt have you guys run up?

Well, the house still has $167,000.

I mean, $267,000.

We probably have about $40,000 in debt.

On what?

Well, we have one vehicle,

You know, we have numerous credit cards.

So what do you owe on your car?

I believe it's about $25,000.

Okay.

And what do you owe on the credit cards?

Credit cards total about

$10,000.

Okay.

And

that's $35,000.

And what's the other five?

The other five would probably be well, actually, we just had a roof put on the house, so

That's five grand

yeah

really you had a roof put on your house for five thousand dollars

well i mean i paid some of it so there's some money left over on it okay like a lot more okay

so um

so you guys can live on seven thousand dollars if you have your if you're in agreement and in alignment and you stick to a budget and you could reduce the debt agreed yes yes okay is there you own two cars

the other one's paid for one vehicle i'm sorry One vehicle.

The only car you have is $25,000 in debt.

Right.

Okay.

All right.

But I think you could probably, with that kind of an income, clear the $40,000 in debt if we were reasonably spending on $7,000.

Agreed?

That's what your problem is.

Okay.

Yeah.

And so, you know, the way it's going to sound at my house, and you can do what you want to do, but you called us, is, hon, I think we have a problem,

and it's you.

You're out of control, and you can't seem to control it, and it's really sad.

Consequently, we don't have any money, and we're in debt, and we have plenty of income.

And so here's what's going to happen.

We're going to try this first.

We're going to agree on a budget this month.

You and I both have a vote.

We're going to spend $7,000 on the Every Dollar app.

And we're going to have a plan.

And we're going to stick to that plan.

And you're not going to go into a store and go out of control again.

If you do,

next month, you will have zero access to the money.

I will shut everything down and put it in my name to protect me and our family from you.

Right.

That's how it's going to sound.

So we're going to try this together like two grown-ups that can function.

And so if you're being immature, you can merely adjust the immaturity.

If you are an addict, we're going to discover that in one more month, and we're going to treat you like an addict at that point.

I don't know.

I can't diagnose if someone has an OCD.

Well, there's a level of medicating that's for sure going on.

Well, at a minimum, there's immaturity and princess syndrome or something.

Yeah.

Right.

But

at a minimum, at a maximum, 2% of the public has been diagnosed literally with a spending addiction, a shopping addiction.

And 2%.

And it's an OCD behavior.

And, you know, it's a psychological label and done by professionals, and we deal with them.

But most of the time, when we deal with it, we're just dealing with somebody who's being selfish, immature, an apprentice, or I deserve it, and you don't, kind of thing.

So, I don't know which one she is, but I would, if it was my wife, I'm going to have a real clear conversation that says, for one more month, we're going to try this.

And if we fail this experiment, that you and I cannot act like two adults at 78 freaking years old, We can't act like grown-ups and live within our means, then I'm going to shut down your access to everything.

And it sounds like that's what's going to happen.

I'm sorry.

I mean, yeah, 100%.

And Bob, for her sake, too, encouraging her.

We just said this in the last call, but for real, she needs to go get help for it because she's not a whole person.

Like there is a level there that is eroding her quality of life, who she is as a person, and who she's going to be as a wife.

I'm like, you're getting someone who's not functioning.

None of us are fully, but, but there is a very obvious issue there that she's just not addressing head-on.

And, and I don't think you're getting the quality wife that you could have, too, if she doesn't go through a level of healing to this, because that's probably what I mean, like, yeah, it could be immaturity and all of it, but at 78 and him having this conversation, her knowing intellectually where they are, but it's her compulsion, it's still happening.

There's stuff happening in there.

So, I, I would, for her sake, like the financial side is one thing, Bob.

But if that's my spouse, I'm like, I want her to get healing.

I want her to understand what's going on and

to find,

I don't know, peace in this because there's just chaos happening inside of her, I would imagine.

And it's coming out medicating in spending.

And so you're not getting a great wife either, a great partner.

She's not getting a great self.

I don't know.

There's a lot there.

There's a thing mixed up between in the psychology and the spirituality

of godliness with contentment is great gain.

And if I can't find contentment, and so I'm chasing it somewhere else, that is a spiritual disease.

Yeah.

And it also can be an addictive compulsion.

And it can be

immature.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

That's right.

Self-centeredness.

That's right.

And no one ever told me no.

That's right.

And including you, Bob, you've never told her no.

And, you know, and you're not going to be able to do it.

In a pretty, like,

yeah, like consequential way.

We're not doing that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's not an option.

And so

I can't tell exactly, and

I'm really not going to diagnose something as severe as a spending addiction in this, but it could be.

So I'm going to treat it that way and move down that process.

And

it's going to stop one way or the other.

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Nick's in California.

Hi, Nick.

How are you?

Good.

How's it going, Dave?

Better than I deserve.

How can I help?

Love it.

My wife and I, we went through FPU right after we got married.

We followed your plan ever since.

How long have you been married?

In

17 years.

Well, good for you.

Wow.

You're a millionaire?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, pretty much.

Good.

Work.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's really good.

So we make, we gross about 350 a year.

We have over 400,000 saved, combining, you know, all the ROS and the kid savings and whatnot.

Good.

Yeah.

So we've been very disciplined.

And, you know, you've, you've helped us get there.

It's been really, really great.

But I feel like, okay, we've done this for so long, it's kind of become who we are.

And we're saving and we're building wealth.

And, you know, we pay off one thing.

We got debt free.

We didn't do the call, but we ended up buying another farm.

And then now we got more debt.

Now, you know, but that's producing income too.

And, you know, now our kids are growing up and they're kind of at a fun age.

And I don't want to miss out on memories, but we're so caught up into just paying down debt and saving and building wealth that we're not, you know, I want to go buy jet skis and I want to get quads and I want to go do fun things that I did as a kid and make those memories with them now, you know, while they still like me.

Wait, wait a minute, wait a minute.

You have zero debt except real estate, correct?

I would say real estate's 90% of it.

I mean, we've got a tractor.

Oh, you flunked to FPU.

Oh, I thought you were a star pupil and became a millionaire.

And then you went and financed a tractor.

Well, that is actually an interesting.

No, there's nothing interesting at all about it.

It's pitiful.

Hey, Nick, but you got millionaire.

Okay, but he's got $400,000 in savings.

That's in his Roth IRAs.

He can't pay the tractor off with that.

What do you owe on your tractor?

Do you have liquid savings, Nick?

What do you owe on your tractor, Nick?

I actually got it for free.

I'll just say that.

I thought you said you had a lot of free free.

You pay debt on it.

I do.

It's $25,000, but it was 0%.

So I took the money I got back from buying it from a government grant and put it on debt.

Then I wrote the tractor off and saved myself $16,000 in taxes.

So I was just like, oh, with the government grant and the tax refund, it actually paid for the whole tractor.

I put it on the line of credit.

But now they can't buy jet skis.

Oh, my gosh.

Anyway, so it's $25,000.

It'll be paid off in seven months.

Okay.

Is that your only debt other than the land?

Yeah.

Okay.

And do you have your emergency fund in place?

Yep.

How much is in it?

$31,000.

Okay.

Pay the tractor off today, honey.

Today.

Oh, okay.

Today.

Rebuild your emergency fund.

Okay, remember, we're going back to FPU.

I'm taking you back to class.

This is the remedial version.

Oh, boy, it's been a while.

We're doing the baby steps again here.

Okay, we've got to clear the tractor.

We've got to rebuild the emergency fund.

Then when you're, to answer your overall question, once you clean up this little mess you made that you rationalized out of your butt,

now once you do all that, once you clean up the mess, then what I'm going to do, if I'm in your shoes, you're in baby steps four, five, and six, putting 15% away for retirement, you're putting money for kids' college, and you're reducing the real estate debt.

When you're in one through three,

getting out of debt other than real estate

and building your emergency fund, you are intense

and not allowed to do anything except get out of debt and build the emergency fund.

When you're in four, five, and six, you are in

in the phase of intentional, not intense.

And that is the phase that when a guy makes 350 grand, he should be able to put 15% aside, should be able to,

in his 401ks and Roth IRAs, growing those, and still have plenty of margin to buy a quad

and a jet ski.

It's a quad.

It's a four-wheeler.

Oh.

And so

like those, you know,

anyway.

Like a side-by-side.

Yeah.

A fancy four-wheeler.

And so, yeah, so, you know, I just bought several of those for the farm for the grandkids.

That was fun because I wanted to.

But I didn't finance it at zero.

I mean, I just bought it, okay?

And it was a small percentage of our world, and you can do that too.

So you make enough money to do some of the enjoyment things you're talking about in cash only.

No rationalization, no government kickbacks, no 0%.

We're just going to pay for it like your grandmother did.

And that's the only way we're going to do it.

And then you can enjoy those things because don't have all this associated intellectual guilt that goes with the stupid way I did the thing.

Okay.

And move from intense to intentional.

And I think you can systematically, inside your budget, find the money to enjoy life while reducing your mortgages somewhat and while putting 15% away.

You can do that in California making $350,000.

But you've got to.

You can still enjoy your life.

Yeah, you've got to

go back to the basics, blocking and tackling that you learned in the class 17 years ago that actually got you where you are.

And then you fell off the wagon,

fell off the tractor.

Oh, that's so fun.

But yeah, that's it.

So,

you know, what this does illustrate, though, folks, is

this is a guy who makes a lot of money.

He's obviously a bright guy.

You know, dumb people generally don't make $350,000 a year.

And

the message

of debt,

0% debt, the message of debt is necessary, debt is wise, debt is sophisticated.

If you're going to get a

tax credit from the government, and so this whole thing was sophisticated, that message is so prevalent that if you let your guard down, you'll buy a tractor.

Or get one for free and then go through the hoops to get back into it.

It's not really free.

He paid for the tractor, but he got a tax credit.

Credit with it.

And that he didn't use to pay off the debt.

Right, right.

So he still has the debt.

So, but he talked himself into it.

Yes.

By the way, if you paid cash for the tractor,

you would have also gotten the tax credit.

There's not a debt requirement to get the tax credit.

So, but it made you rationalize and justify.

So what happened is, is you got financial advice from the tractor salesman.

That's what happened.

That's kind of a bad place to get it.

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Sarah's in Phoenix.

Hi, Sarah.

How are you?

Hi, Dave.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

How can I help?

Well,

me and my husband started a business back in 2020.

And addition to the debt I have now, we wrapped up about $34,000 in credit card debt to sustain.

So the last couple of years, the business has been doing great and it's steady, and I was able to pay that down just my credit card debt to $19,000.

But out of the blue, I inherited $108,000, and I'm just like, what do I do with this with all of my debt?

Wow.

Who died?

I just need advice.

Nobody died.

It was just like

a...

early inheritance while they were still alive.

Oh, they had to.

Who advanced you the money?

My uncle.

Okay.

Wow.

Got the rich uncle.

It's very nice.

I wondered where he was.

Okay.

Just the uncle everyone wants.

So your business went through hell in 2020, and

you subsidized it with credit cards up to $34,000.

Yeah.

And then you told me it's doing really well, but it only has paid down a few thousand dollars.

What does doing really well mean?

How much profit are you making?

About $7,000 a month.

Well, why have you only paid down a few thousand dollars then?

Are you profiting $7,000 a month or you're grossing $7,000 a month?

Well, I'm grossing, but also

I was paying for just, you know, living expenses and food and stuff.

No, I'm talking about your business.

It was my credit cards were $34,000.

I know, know, and they're down to $17,000, and in five whole years, you paid it off about $3,000 a year, which pretty much sucks if your business is making $7,000 a month profit.

Really hardcore in like the last year.

And we kind of did things a little bit backwards where we saved for a home

down payment and all that.

Okay, let me go back.

Is your business making a profit

or a gross revenue of $7,000?

Which is it?

And I, I'm, and then

yes, it's

it's making a profit of $7,000.

And then I also work

full-time at a job and I make about $7,000.

Okay, so you're bringing home.

Okay, okay.

So you have a $14,000 a month income and you're married.

Yes.

And he makes what?

Well,

he was the business with me, so that's included one of the $7,000 a month.

Okay, so your total household income is $14,000 a month.

Yes.

I'm still not positive you know what profit means.

This is a real profit after all business business income minus business expenses equals profit.

Taxable income is $7,000 a month.

Is that what you're telling me?

Yes.

Okay.

And are you putting any of that money back into the business?

Are you guys just bringing home exactly what you profit?

We're just not budgeters.

I don't know.

We like spend like a couple thousand a month going out to eat.

Okay, so

but here, grasp with me here.

There's a reason I'm asking all this regarding your inheritance, okay?

Because I don't want this $104,000 to enable you to continue stupid butt behaviors that are going to destroy you.

I don't either.

Okay.

And that's what I'm trying to get to because I want to love you well here.

I want to help you.

And so.

Yeah, and what we found, Sarah, is that money magnifies magnifies what you're already doing so you're like we're not great budgeters we spent a couple of thousand just eating out like all that and that's just this allows you to continue and do that

in a bigger way which we don't want right and so I don't want to do no that's right that's right okay I'm so glad and how's your husband is he on board with this of changing completely how you guys have been doing money

he he lets me do everything

he just says you handle it I trust you okay well that's not good that's got an end too that's got to end too apparently that's not working okay because y'all suck suck at this.

Yeah.

So, I mean, we've got to adult up here because we're pissing away $14,000 a month.

So, what I'm going to do in your shoes is I'm going to take the $104,000, act like I don't own it, and put it in a high-yield savings account.

And then I'm going to go home, and the two of us are going to sit down on $14,000 a month.

And in three months, we're going to pay off this credit card.

Okay.

$6,000 a month on the credit card until it's gone.

And you're going to not go out to eat at all until you do that.

And that money will be going straight to the credit card.

And

you're going to really learn what real profit is on the business.

Are you keeping a separate set of books on the business?

No.

Yes.

You are.

Have you kept your taxes paid?

I owe like $10,000 this year.

Have you been doing quarterly estimates?

Do you know what that is?

No.

I know what it is, but we're not really doing it.

Okay, but $7,000 a month, $70,000, $84,000 a year.

And so taxes on that are not $10,000.

Taxes on that are $25,000.

Have you filed tax returns?

Oh, yes.

My numbers are probably just wrong.

Sorry.

I

think that's probably the accurate statement.

Because

I'm fishing around in murky water here.

I can't tell what's going on.

Okay, so no, you do not need to use the $100,000.

The $100,000 gift is a double gift.

One, it's $100,000.

The second thing is it's going to make you all wake up and behave.

If you don't, $100,000 won't save you.

$2 million won't save you.

And so, number one, the business ought to have a separate set of books that you're going to have.

You and your husband tonight.

Y'all need to sit down and listen to

me.

I'm figuring all of this out.

So in business, you set a separate checking account and a separate set of books for the business.

Only thing goes into that checking account is rent, is income from the business.

Only thing comes out of that checking account, expenses from the business.

What's left, by definition, is called profit.

Only then can you take it home.

When you take it home, you should set aside 25% of whatever you take home in yet another savings account for your quarterly estimates that are supposed to be filed.

If you are not filing them after five years, you are being penalized every single day for not filing your quarterlies.

You're violating every IRS regulation.

It's costing you out the butt.

Yeah, they need to sit down with an accountant probably.

Hello.

Yeah.

And start, yeah, and get the dadgum business running like a business.

You're under the illusion you can outearn your disorganization and chaos, and you can't.

I tried it.

It doesn't work.

It caught up and hit me in the back of the head, knocked the hair off my head.

Don't do this.

Okay, it's not fun.

You're going to bring pain to your life.

It's not cute and it's not okay.

You're not a teenager.

So you guys need to sit down, run the business like grown-ups.

Then, when you bring money home, after you've set aside a fourth for your taxes and filed your quarterly estimates properly, then we can talk about how much is really coming into the house.

And what to do with it.

And immediately need to clean up this debt.

Because if you're making $10,000 a month, it's ridiculous that

you have not reduced the debt any further than you have.

So no more.

No more eating out.

Well, and no more, you just take care of it.

Because, Sarah, you've been on an island.

I mean, he's left you there on an island, and you've signed up for that trip.

And so that has to end.

And there's no food on the island.

Survival.

Survivor.

We don't want that.

We want bougie, Sarah.

We don't want

each other.

But sitting down and you guys together do a budget.

And if you hold in line, Sarah, Kelly.

Whatever you want to do.

Kelly's going to pick up.

We're going to give you total money makeover.

We're going to give you every dollar and entree leadership.

Throw that book into.

And so, but to sit down and to plan out your income that you guys have that has hit your account as a household and say, here's exactly where our money's going.

Rent or the mortgage.

I think you have a mortgage.

You said you've got a house.

So mortgage, lights, electricity, subscription.

I mean, you list out everything you guys spend money on.

And then

you're going to sit there and start deleting categories because you're not going out to eat.

You're cutting subscriptions.

You're cutting your lifestyle to nothing until this credit card debt is paid off.

And I mean, honestly, I don't know what you're doing.

Start running this like you work for someone and you're going to get fired if you continue to suck at your job.

Because the problem is, is if you take some of this 108,000 inheritance and just pay off the credit card debt, nothing has changed in you guys.

So I would push you not to use the inheritance to pay off the credit card debt.

I would force you guys to do it.

You need to learn and actually participate and have the action towards this change.

You have to feel it and and go through it in your life.

And if the numbers are anywhere near close, you're going to do it in about three months once you get your heads through them.

Yeah, y'all have to sit down together, Sarah.

Tonight, and he has to start carrying the emotional weight of this with you together.

This is the only way you win.

There's really not another option.

This is it.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show.

Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality.

My daughter is my co-host today.

The phone number is 888-825-5225.

Michelle's in Indiana.

Hi, Michelle.

How are you?

I'm doing okay.

Thank you.

How are you guys doing?

Better than we deserve.

What's up?

So recently I found out this past weekend how much we actually have in debt with credit cards and a personal loan.

Recently just started watching your stuff and

we had not been doing finances together.

He pays some, I pay some.

But after learning a little bit, we joined finances and that's when I discovered all this debt.

Wow.

I'm so honored.

I'm happy for you guys that you're doing this.

I'm sorry you found that you're in a hole, but you can get out.

This is awesome.

How much debt did you find?

50,000 in credit cards and $12,000 in the personal loan.

Okay, very good.

So $62,000.

Was the credit card debt yours and his and just combined its $50,000 or was it all his, all yours?

99.9% his.

Okay.

Okay.

But he used the cards for utilities and groceries for household items.

Yeah, I got you.

Okay.

And what's your household income?

He makes $101,000 a year.

I make $21,000.

Okay, so $122,000.

That's good.

Very good.

No car debt?

Uh, two cars.

Debt.

And they're upside down, so that's not a good situation either.

Oh, so this isn't your only debt.

So how much do you owe on the cars?

No.

One car

is

$45,000.

The other car is $65,000.

Whoa!

Okay.

I know.

And is there any other debt?

Is there any other debt?

Besides mortgage, no.

Okay.

And what do you owe on your mortgage?

$315,000.

Okay.

All right.

You have $110,000 in cars.

I'll tell you what I can tell you for sure happened mathematically after doing this for 35 years.

Okay.

Okay.

Your cars

stole.

your food money.

Yeah.

And your food was put on a credit card.

Your husband has not been irresponsible, except for the time that he went to the car lot.

Yeah.

Okay.

Had to have them with your car.

Yeah.

So you guys are broke.

Your car broke.

And he was trying to prop it up because there's not enough money to pay for these stupid cars and live.

And he propped it up with credit cards.

That's 100% what happened here.

Your husband's not a bad guy.

He was just trying to cover and make things happen.

Yes, and he wasn't trying to hide it from me.

He didn't want me to worry.

He said he was trying to work on it.

Yeah, and y'all were separate in it, right?

He was just taking care of it.

That was the original.

I'm not blaming him.

I'm just saying that this credit card debt is not due to irresponsible spending.

It is due to the irresponsible purchase of vehicles that you can't afford.

I agree with you.

I just don't know what steps to take.

Okay, so on the $65,000 car, who's driving that one?

He is.

Okay, so it's a truck.

No.

No.

It's an electric car.

Oh, okay.

Oh, crap.

Which one?

Honda.

Honda Prologue.

Okay.

And you owe $65,000.

Do you have any idea what the actual market value of this log is?

I looked up Kelly's blue book and it said $30,000.

Oh gosh.

Man, yeah.

It's 30,000 for trade-in or private sale or

actually I think it was traded.

Okay.

So it's probably worth 35.

Okay.

Which still sucks.

So basically what we're saying is Honda electric cars have tanked

in value.

They're like jumping off a clip with no parachute in value.

Okay.

Wow.

I didn't know they sucked that bad.

Okay.

That's really bad.

Yeah.

How about the $45,000 car?

Do you know?

Do I know what that's worth?

Yeah.

$27,000.

And that was trade-in, so that's probably $32,000.

Okay.

All right.

Okay.

So $30,000 loss.

When did you buy the Honda?

I'm sorry, I'm a little nervous.

I can't think so.

It's okay.

He's had it less than a year.

Did you have negative equity in another car that you traded on it?

I think he did.

I think there was some negative equity.

I mean, I know these electric cars suck on holding their value.

It's just, they're pitiful.

But I did not think you could lose $30,000 in one year.

I think that's probably not right.

So

they're not that bad.

So

I hope.

Either way, you're there.

Okay, here's the problem.

If you keep it, it's going to keep tanking.

And you're going to look up and it's going to be worth $10,000, and you're going to owe $55,000.

Right?

And so, you know, it's almost like to save the patient, we're going to have to amputate the leg.

You know,

it's like we we got to stop the bleeding here.

There are too many amputations and too much blood in this metaphor.

I got mixed metaphors going.

But anyway, so we got to,

anyway, you've got to stop the loss in value by getting rid of the car because it's going to get worse and worse and worse at an increasing rate.

Okay?

So, wow, I'm so sorry.

Do you guys have any money?

I haven't asked that.

No.

Okay, it's not a surprise.

What do you make?

Michelle, you make $22,000.

What do you do for a living?

I was a nurse.

I got injured, and I'm on disability now.

Okay.

A permanent disability?

Permanent disability.

Sorry.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Are there any

out there working it?

Yeah.

Because, man, you can make some bucks as a nurse.

That's a very good career.

Oh, man.

All right.

So anyway, back to the whole thing.

The great news is you now know where you are.

The great news is you're now working together.

And the great news is we have identified the problem, and it's called a Honda Prologue.

And it's caused all of this.

It's all the result of buying a car.

And the $45,000.

I mean, like, I think all of it.

Two cars.

So part of me would just take, if you can get a loan from the credit union, take the difference.

You each go get $5,000 cars.

I'd rather be $55,000 in debt than $110,000.

Yep.

Yep.

If you can get the credit union to loan you enough money to get out of both of these,

sell them both and get two $5,000 cars.

That's a huge change in direction.

Otherwise, you're going to struggle with this for a decade.

And so we've got to stop this thing going off a cliff mathematically.

Because

you can tell from 65 down to 30, right?

In a heartbeat.

Right.

And we don't want to do that another year.

Yeah.

I don't want that for you.

I want you to be be free.

Yeah.

You think you could get a loan at the credit union to cover the deficits on these cars?

I'm not sure now because his

score of the credit has gone down.

Yeah, I'm going to go sit down and talk to him.

If you've got either one of these loans with the credit union, it's a real reason to talk to him.

Because this is going to go sideways.

It's bad.

And then once you get that straightened up, you can address the other stuff pretty quick.

Because you make good money and now you're working together.

The sun will come out.

But we got to get rid of it.

You You guys have two to three years.

You got to get rid of the loss.

Of intense, intense

plan, Michelle.

What a horrible car.

And I'm a Honda fan in general.

But that's.

But not an electric fan.

Not an electric fan.

Adds to it.

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John is in North Carolina.

Hey, John, how are you?

I'm good.

Actually, I'm

a little less than

I deserve.

A little not good.

How are you?

Oh, John.

John, I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

How can we help today?

Well,

my wife and I, we got ourselves in a little bit of a mess.

We're looking at about a million dollars in debt at the moment.

On what?

Well, I just closed down my business in June.

And

so we had taken out some SBA loans to

keep the business afloat.

And then we also have our house, credit cards.

We have IRS taxes due

and a couple other things.

How much is the SBA?

Right now, I think there's about $250,000 left on them.

How much is on the IRS?

It's $350,000.

Okay.

And

how much on credit cards?

We actually just entered a consolidation loan, and that we weren't sure if that was the right thing to do or not, but it dropped our monthly payment significantly.

So, right now, we're at about 100.

I think the total payoff was about 96.

Okay, and

so

six, seven.

What's the three other 300, your mortgage?

$250,000 on the mortgage.

We have $8,000 left on a car, and then just repaying

our accountants and attorneys.

Which amounts to what?

$15,000 for an accountant,

$8,000 for an attorney.

And the attorney was for what?

I'm sorry?

The attorney was for what?

They actually assisted me through my IRS.

They got me an installment plan for $500 a month, which was great until two months after the installment agreement went through.

Now

they're saying that we have to review everything again and that we will be at least liable for $175,000 to pay in the trust fund.

I'm sorry, you're liable for $350,000.

So where's $175,000 come in?

I'm not sure.

That's what the officer said when I was on the phone with him.

An additional $175,000?

Not an additional.

That's just that includes in the $350.

Okay, so

you didn't hold your 941s back?

No, we never held anything back.

We just weren't.

Yeah, they're not going to put that on payments.

That's right.

I don't disagree with that.

Okay.

So what is your home worth?

About $550.

Okay.

And what else do you own?

Nothing.

Right before all this happened,

we had a rental property.

We had land.

We sold all those to

we actually did a flip and we lost everything on top of that.

And then everything kind of just trickled down from that.

And then we paid off some credit cards back then as well, which was about four years ago.

Are you now working doing something else?

Yes.

What do you make?

Just recently I was making

$260, but now I'm making $140.

I got let go from one job because

they just couldn't afford me anymore.

So now it's $140.

Okay.

And you're $140.

Does your wife work outside the home, sir?

She makes about $20,000.

How old are you?

33.

How long have you been married?

Eight years.

Okay.

Do you guys have kids?

Three.

Three.

Okay.

I remember being right where you are.

I was 28 with two,

and I didn't make it.

I ended up bankrupt.

But I can share with you a couple things, okay?

One is

This stuff will destroy your marriage

if you don't fight for your marriage.

And so the two of you have to sit down and say, regardless of what happens, we're it.

We're doing it together.

We're in it to win it.

And we have to lock arms, and it's you two against everybody else.

Right.

Okay.

And she's scared.

She's scared in a way you don't even understand.

And you, if you're normal,

this has taken a lot lot of your confidence and your swagger away.

Absolutely.

It did me.

It took it all away.

Okay?

And because it just grinds you under a boot.

And so once you say those things out loud, that means she gets extra hugs because she's terrified.

And we're going to do this.

We're going to make it.

We're not going to jail and we're not going to go hungry.

I don't know what else bad is going to happen.

But those two things we do know.

Okay?

Now,

so you protect your marriage and you understand that

business failure is a part of running a business.

Sometimes it happens.

And

it doesn't define the rest of your life unless you allow it to.

But it does suck.

And it does make you think that you're not worthy and you are worthy.

You're a lot better than you feel about you right now.

Okay.

Hear me, brother.

You're a lot better than you feel about you.

I've been there.

I know.

And out of the ashes of mine, this whole thing grew.

So there's something the other side of this.

There's something else to do.

But right now sucks beyond belief.

So food

on the table

trumps anybody else's request.

Lights and water

kept on trumps anybody else's request.

Paying the first mortgage on the residence, so we have a place to eat, we have food and water and utilities trumps anybody else's request.

No one gets in line in front of your family.

Do you hear me, sir?

Yes, sir.

You take care of them, and then you'll you'll, her terror will start to subside, and your confidence will start to grow.

And that's where you're going to grow to fight through this, is taking care of those things first, okay?

Absolutely.

Are you guys in a good church?

You need to be.

You're not.

You need to be.

You need to get some people around you that love you and

walk into the presence of God on Sunday morning while you're fighting the devil.

Because this is wicked stuff you're going through, dude.

Okay?

It's warfare and there's no other way around it.

You've got to fight it.

Okay.

Now, I don't know if you're going to make it or not mathematically.

It's a secondary concern.

I'm concerned that you make it and that your wife makes it and your marriage makes it and your kids make it and the rest of these people can jump off a cliff.

They're irrelevant to me.

The SBA is going to get what they deserve, probably, which is nothing

because they're bankruptable.

The IRS is not bankruptable, and those 941s are not going away.

So

that thing right there is a real mess.

You may end up selling the house to clear the stinking IRS.

Right.

I was thinking about going bankrupt, but the SBA,

you know, it's personally guaranteed.

So I don't know if you're going to be able to do that.

You can't bankrupt the business.

You're bankrupt because you personally guaranteed it.

And that probably means you're selling the house to pay the IRS.

So you need to get the advice of a bankruptcy attorney.

I'm not telling you to file, but you need to learn what your options are because number one

is not credit cards.

They can jump in a creek.

I'm not paying them nothing.

Forget whatever you're paying them.

Screw them.

They get nothing.

And the SBA, screw them.

They get nothing right now.

They can all just sit over there and look at this mess because they created it too.

And we're going to work on the IRS.

Oh, you got to keep the car payment paid because you have a car to get to work.

And you need to sit down with the bankruptcy attorney and learn.

But I think if there's a way to manipulate through this, you're probably going to end up selling the house to clear the IRS.

The rest of it is bankruptable and you can start over.

I don't know how you're going to clear all this making $140.

There may be a way, though.

There may be a way.

But take care of you, John.

Take care of your wife, okay?

Promise me?

I promise.

All right.

And we're here if you need us.

You call me anytime.

I'm here to help you.

I've been right where you are.

Hang on.

Kelly's going to pick up.

I'm going to put you with a Ramsey coach as my gift.

We're going to be with you and walk with you.

Thank you, Dave.

Hey, we love debt-free screams on the debt-free stage in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions.

We love them even more when they're one of our own Ramsey team members.

Yeah, here we go.

Grant and Jordan Trailer are with us.

Grant is a director of data and analytics with us at Ramsey Global.

How long have you been with us?

About seven and a half years.

Seven and a half years.

Wow.

Okay, cool.

And how much debt have you guys paid, Grant?

We paid off just over $130,000.

All right, very cool.

And what kind of debt was that?

That was all the mortgage.

Hey!

Paid off your house.

Oh, my God.

Hey, how old are you two weirdos?

I'm 37, and she's a little younger than me.

I like it.

It's a good answer, like really legit 36.

That's a little.

A very little.

Way to go.

What's the house worth?

We think it's worth around $350,000 or something.

I love it.

Amazing.

Way to go, guys.

So, how long did it take you to knock the house out?

Just over four and a half years.

Okay, so you've been doing that while you were working here.

Yes, sir.

Now, how weird is it to be working on your get-out of debt plan while working at Ramsey?

Awkward, weird.

It makes it pretty easy, to be honest.

I've got a great support system around me helping encourage us along the way.

It's been really cool.

Yeah, you're not really given an option.

We do give you an option.

We're not looking at your stuff.

But I mean, everybody around you is encouraging rather than discouraging.

Yeah.

So cheering you on, cheering you on, cheering you on.

And since it's team members, for those of you out there

listening on the other side of this on a speaker, we do not ask their

we've got about 150 of their teammates standing around here, so we don't ask their income, okay?

So that's not part of it.

But you did it in seven?

No, four.

You've been here seven years.

You did it in four and a half years.

Was it faster than you guys were planning, like when you originally kind of mapped it out?

Did it go faster or slower?

It went a little slower.

Honestly, when we kind of started out, we set a BHA that we knew the math didn't work on, but we just wanted to be aggressive because we knew we didn't really have a math problem.

We had a behavior problem, and we needed to set a goal so big that it seemed hard, and we had to change our behaviors around it.

Okay, yes.

So the goal itself was probably like a little impossible, but you wanted that.

Yeah, three and a half years was the goal, so we were about a year behind that.

Okay, okay, so

you're a failure.

No good, Calcille.

So, uh, Jordan, I mean, he comes to work here, yeah, and he comes home, and we're gonna pay off the house in three and a half years.

And you're going, what?

Well, the conversations like that always come at like 11 at night when the kids are, you know, going to down and it's quiet.

You're exhausted.

I'm exhausted.

And so, I definitely did not agree at first.

Not only impossible, but like why?

And I don't have this culture around me every day.

And so he comes home with these really big ideas.

And then I kind of look at him like he's crazy.

And then he talks me through it.

But honestly, the thing that helped the most was he gave me a visual in his data life.

And it showed me this is where, you know, like we're wasting money at this point.

And I was like, well, that's a lot of money.

Yeah, it does.

Like, it really doesn't actually make sense to keep doing this.

So let's do it.

you know?

Let's do it.

Data guy got you with data.

I know.

Graphs and all.

Data analytics comes home from work.

Oh, wow.

Literally every day.

Yes.

I love it.

Very cool.

Very cool.

Yeah.

And you have three kids during the time.

So were you guys, because how intense do you feel like you guys were in the four and a half?

Like, was it really like, okay, we're going to do as much as we can as fast as we can?

Or did y'all live a little through baby steps four through six?

It felt a bit like a run ahead.

Hold on, slow down.

Run ahead.

Okay, yeah.

I'm like you.

It's like, let's celebrate, let's be present, let's enjoy what we have right now.

And so he went into some moments that were like, whoa, we're not getting where we're supposed to be going.

This is frustrating.

I think that was where he felt like, are we actually going to keep doing this?

So for me,

I needed that cup of coffee, you know what I mean?

Where it was like,

no, I need to know.

I like that.

Yeah.

And so

we had an anniversary celebration in the middle of that that was big and just a ton of fun and we acted like kids and I'm kind of still living on that.

That was like over two years ago, you know, but when you're not used to having coffee, you know what I'm saying?

It's like that stuff helps go a long time.

So and our kids are like they don't know that we're weird because they're too young.

Like this is just weird, you know, and that's just their normal.

And so they talk about it like it's normal, you know?

So, I mean, yeah, they're not.

It's not.

Those kids' parents are heroes.

You guys are amazing.

I mean, look at what you did.

This is, You've changed your whole family tree because now you have your entire income, no debt of any kind, and you're only 37 years old.

Yeah.

How does that feel?

It feels honestly incredible.

We knew when we went into the bank, I kind of expected like that moment where we pay it off to be this emotional high, and then we'd go back to normal life, and it wouldn't feel that different in the day-to-day.

And it was honestly completely flipped.

In the bank, it felt like we were just in a dingy bank surrounded by people who were pretending to be excited for us, and it was kind of anticlimactic.

Yay.

Yay.

And then we went back to everyday life, and there was this tangible weight that I didn't know I was walking under the whole time that I could just feel not there.

Like there was this freedom that I didn't expect.

And Jordan and I both made a comment along the way of noticing that and calling out how it was a lot more of a relief than we honestly expected it to be in the day-to-day.

What's the big thing you're going to do for yourselves to celebrate?

The big thing to celebrate, we haven't decided where we're going to go yet, but we have always kind of dangled as a carrot out at the other end of this that we want to go on a big trip with our family.

Like our kids have gotten older, so what that was going to look like has changed over the four and a half years.

So we're figuring that out, but we want to do a really big celebration, just get away for a week and a half, two weeks, either go international or even stay domestic and just really live it up for a little while.

Go bad.

I love it.

I like it.

How many paychecks have you guys had without the house payment?

I think only two.

This was the first month's budget that we've had without the house payment.

Is that crazy?

That was a tricky conversation.

Yeah.

Why?

Because you want to spend it?

No.

No, because we realized immediately, like you go into your muscle, you know, movement of like, okay, budget, talk.

And then all of a sudden it was like, well, now that money is sitting there.

And so he starts allocating.

And then I come along because I'm the one that comes up behind, you know, because I'm not the nerd.

And

then it was like,

no.

That's not what I was thinking we'd do with that money.

And he's like, yeah, no.

And so then our kids were gone with our amazing parents who have been our biggest cheerleaders this whole time shout out to all three sets of parents and they were gone and we did a weekend of vision casting and that was where it was like whoa debt is a freaking weight

and it's gone and now we get to just so great and that was like such an amazing moment not only for the financial part of our home but like us our marriage yeah who we are as souls like we are image bearers you know, of the kingdom.

And we're imaging him

in his,

yeah, I'm not going to do that, in his generosity, you know.

And so that was the moment for me where it was just like, that's fun.

We've never had this before.

We never talked like this before.

That is so cool.

That's fun.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It was really cool.

We kind of in that moment realized we've been going for four and a half years and we had this shared goal.

And now we don't have that shared goal.

And we have different expectations.

And so it was really cool

to have that conversation and actually align to where do we want to be 30 years from now.

This is a problem people need to have.

I agree.

It's a fun problem, I should say.

So good.

All right, bring the kiddos up.

Let's hear their names and ages.

Come on up, guys.

And

so this is Cal, he's 10.

Kate is 8, and Finley is 6.

All right.

Gosh.

So you guys have, your mom and dad have changed your whole lives and your kids' lives.

You don't even know it yet.

It's pretty impressive.

Very, very cool stuff.

Very well done.

Did y'all get to miss school today?

Did y'all get to miss school to be here?

No, they're homeschooled.

We did it all morning today.

Okay, I was like, that's pretty good.

That's a good day.

That's a good day.

All right, very fun.

Very fun.

All right, guys.

$130,000 paid off.

House and everything at 37 years old.

They did it in four and a half years.

Count it down.

Let's hear a debt-free scream.

Three, two, one.

We're debt-free.

Wow.

wow, amazing.

Oh my gosh.

Man, that's a power couple right there.

And we have the privilege of working with one of them every day.

Pretty cool stuff.

Well, and it just shows when you're intentional and you have the plan, even though it's a big, lofty goal, like they did the three and a half years,

you have something you're aven for.

Even something like paying off a house, which feels impossible for so many people.

They did it.

Boom.

Such a thing.

Don't tell me it can't be done.

Grant and Jordan will tell you otherwise.

Boom!

We've done in-depth research.

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Well, everything goes to the family anyway.

No, it also goes to the lawyer.

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Trenton is in Washington.

Hi, Trenton.

How are you?

Hey, Jay, I'm doing fine.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

Oh, not a whole lot.

Had a friend recommend me to you, and I've been hooked on your shows ever since I started watching.

Just had a question.

You know, I kind of got myself in a bit of a hole here.

I recently got let go from my job while unemployed.

I got in an accident with a work truck

while I was on shift and out to a job site.

So every time someone wrecks a truck, they fire them?

Apparently, so

you weren't like drunk or something?

Nope, not at all.

Hmm.

Okay.

What were you making?

Roughly $80,000 a year.

You got a CDL?

$85,000.

No.

I have a light-duty tow truck driver and a roadside mechanic for heavy-duty trucks such as Semis.

Okay, so you're a diesel mechanic?

Correct.

Okay.

That's good news.

All right.

Because you probably weren't making enough.

I mean, a lot of diesel mechanics make over $100.

Yeah.

I originally got put on to the job for the light-duty telling.

I just wanted to branch out and try something a little different, I guess.

Do you have certifications in diesel?

I do.

You do?

Okay.

How long ago did you get fired?

Roughly about two months ago, I want to say.

Why are you not working turning a wrench somewhere?

That's the thing is I'm unsure.

I enjoyed towing a lot.

I love towing.

I want to get back into towing.

But

now with that on my record, it's kind of hard.

Yeah, so don't.

I'm sorry.

You need a job.

You've been sitting on your butt for two and a half months.

You don't starve to death.

You need to go get a job turning a wrench, man.

You make 100K as a diesel mechanic.

Go be a mechanic tomorrow.

Yeah.

And you work your way back into towing in the future years or open your own towing thing later.

But let's not get hungry first.

What have you been doing during the two and a half months?

Watching Oprah?

Oprah's

in your shows.

Netbooks.

Working with friends.

He's watching your reruns, not Oprah.

Watching me, not Oprah.

That's great.

Oh, my gosh.

Okay.

So, honey, you got to get your.

I got a little friend making a little bit of money here and there.

Yeah, you're not.

Yeah, you're sitting on your butt.

Dude, you got to go.

You got to go get the...

You have a wonderful skill.

For real, though, Triton.

You have a wonderful skill.

How are you surviving?

How are you paying for food and keeping your rent or mortgage paid, you know, bills?

I'm just running to the end of my savings, and my wife is currently working.

Oh, you're married?

What does she make?

Correct.

I think probably $40,000 or $50,000 a year.

And how old are you, sir?

I'm 25.

Okay.

And how much debt do you have?

Around $60,000.

On what?

I think it's like 40, 45 on personal loans, and like 15 on two vehicles.

Okay.

Okay.

All right.

Are you guys working together?

You and your wife?

With money?

Or is it?

Correct.

Yes.

No, everything's shared.

It is.

Shared payments.

Everything's going to be

everything's together.

Well,

what's she doing?

What's she saying to you?

Is she like, hey, Trenton,

is she urging you to get out there?

She is, yeah.

And I guess a big reason that I'm not actively looking today is I'm getting ready to go to Ohio for my dad's wedding, not next week, but the week after.

And,

you know, Johnson is probably not going to hire me with taking vacation two weeks from today.

I'm going to be honest with you.

You'll get the job, and it starts the day you get back.

Yeah.

I don't know.

I guess, yeah, I've definitely been lazy.

No, listen, here's what happened, okay?

You're 25 years old.

You were doing something you loved with people you liked,

and an accident happened that wasn't your fault.

Or if it was your fault, it was still an accident.

You didn't do it on purpose.

And the jerks fired you,

and it knocked the wind out of you.

And you've been laying around two months trying to get your breath back because it knocked the snot out of you.

It took some of your confidence and your swagger away.

Yeah.

Is that right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So

I'm trying to tell you in the last few minutes that you, sir, have a wonderful skill that is very marketable and you can make a lot of money.

And stacking some cash right now would feel really good to a bruised ego.

Yeah.

It'd be good, really good.

It would return some of your dignity to you that they stole from you

it's kind of ridiculous that they fired you but they did

kind of where I was at with it but you just gotta accept it and roll with what's earned your life you know yeah well that's true but you gotta roll now okay but uh what I'm telling you is it's normal to get the breath knocked out of you and it's normal for something like this to hurt

but it you cannot let that be a reason to be sidelined.

They don't have the power to sideline you.

Only you have the power to sideline you.

And you have sidelined yourself for the last two and a half months while you hurt from this experience.

And so I'm mean old Uncle Dave who's telling you, you got chops, you got tools, you know how to fix stuff that nobody else on the planet hardly knows how to do.

You can make 80 to 120 grand a year, turn the wrench on a diesel buddy, and then you go stack you some cash, clear up this debt, pile up some money, buy you a truck, start your own towing company in four years.

Yeah.

I'll show them.

Yeah, that sounds like a damn good plan.

Yeah.

But it's not going to be, it's not going to happen

working three hours a week,

screwing around.

Right.

It's time to throw your shoulders back and go, I'm better than the way I was treated.

You are better than the way you were treated.

You are better than the way you were treated.

You have an actual skill in a world that doesn't know how to do things.

You know how to do things.

And so you have a tremendous advantage.

I mean, if you were just doing dumb work and got fired, and then you got to go look for more dumb work,

this conversation wouldn't sound like this.

But, dude.

I'm serious.

I mean, Mike Rowe that does dirty jobs and I, he was showing me the data the other day on the trades.

And one of the things that keeps popping up and one of the hottest things out there and the biggest shortage is freaking diesel mechanics.

Literally what, yeah.

I talked to one the other day that's making 120.

And so I'm serious.

It's not a bad, you are in a really good shape.

And the best, let me tell you, the best revenge for stuff like this is success.

Success is a wonderful revenge.

And you don't even have to mention their name ever again.

You just move on.

And then you can build a company bigger than them

by the time you're 46.

It could happen.

It could happen.

I know guys that do it.

Have at it, brother.

We've all done dumb things with money.

I've done them with zeros on the end.

One of the biggest mistakes I see people make with money is not having a plan for it.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show.

Rachel Cruz, number one best-selling author, Ramsey personality, and my daughter, is my co-host today.

The number is 888-825-5225.

Anne is in Kentucky.

Hi, Anne.

How are you?

I'm doing well.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

So,

I'm calling today with a little bit of a different dilemma.

My husband and I have been married for a little over 10 years.

We graduated right before we got married, and he found you.

So, we,

well, he had to get me on board kind of but we decided to follow the baby steps and we paid off over three hundred thousand dollars of student loan debt in about four years good my

decided we decided we would start saving four down payment for our first home good um so we did that we were started investing in our 401ks doing all the right things um

but it's been kind of a struggle to find the right home um trying to find something that we both agree on so that that was about five years ago now, and we still haven't taken the plunge,

mostly on my husband's end.

And in the meantime, you know, we've just been piling up all this cash.

So we have to go to the bottom.

Okay, so wait a minute, stop, stop, stop.

I'm confused.

The goal that we both agreed to was to save up a big down payment and then get a house.

And now you can't agree on the house for five years?

That's correct.

What is it he wants that you don't want or vice versa?

Well, I think at this point, the biggest issue is that we have over $600,000 saved and seeing that money go.

Okay, no, no, no, no, no.

You said you couldn't agree on the house.

Well, I am.

Now he just doesn't want to buy a house?

Well, he won't admit to that.

But I do think that's a big part of it, yes.

Okay, so

let me go back to the other part.

Because

if he found a house he liked,

I think you could get him to do it.

Well, has he ever found a house he he liked, Dan, or do you kept showing him over five years different houses and he just didn't like it?

Well, a little caveat.

We live in like Appalachia.

There's not a lot of real estate.

So it is kind of hard where we live to find a house that meets all of what we want.

Like he wants a garage so we can have a boat one day and he wants all this stuff that is kind of hard to find.

We got $600,000.

You're in rural eastern Kentucky.

Correct.

Okay, so typically you're not looking in a subdivision, correct?

That's correct.

There are a couple of subdivisions here, but homes there are anywhere from $600,000 to over a million dollars, depending on what you get.

Okay, so what are you looking at?

That's another thing, is it's been hard for us to agree.

You know, when we started out, we said maybe max is $600,000, and then he's like, well, I don't think I want to spend that much a couple years later.

And then now it's back to, it's just been really a struggle to come to an agreement.

Okay, meanwhile, the houses in that subdivision have gone up 300 grand.

Correct, yes.

That's stupid.

I mean, you're I agree.

Yeah, we're not parking the money, and we're instead the money sitting here making 3%.

And if it was invested in a good piece of real estate called your home, it would have gone up 10 or 15 percent during that period of time, right?

Um, I'm just struggling with at what point this has cost you $100,000.

It's called cost you $100,000.

Yeah, I mean, I think that you guys are going to have to sit down and go, look, I'm not okay.

I'm not okay.

We agreed that we were going to buy a house.

Now we need, and we're not going to, there's no such thing as a perfect house, and there's no such thing as a perfect husband either.

So

I'm going to settle on both of them.

We're going to get a house.

I'm going to get an imperfect house with my imperfect husband.

Ready, sick, go.

Here we go.

We're going to do this.

We agreed to this.

This is what we're going to do.

And sitting on this this money is costing us.

And I'm getting increasingly pissed.

Right.

Yes, for sure.

Now, this is what you're describing.

And I think you just need to say it out loud.

I don't think you've said it out loud.

Yes, you said that you have.

I have.

I actually, yeah, like there's been some things.

Just a few months ago, things came to a head, and I was like, I think we just need some time apart.

So he

did leave for a few days and kind of had a change of heart and came back and we looked at some homes, but it's just like dragging the feet, it seems like.

Yeah, so

your marriage counselor that you need to be seeing should be walking you guys through the idea that he is not respecting

your opinion

and you.

Okay.

Okay.

Because I kind of how I feel.

I feel.

It doesn't doesn't mean he has to go along with you, but when he agrees to something and then slow walks it, that means he's patting you on the little head.

Right.

Sweet little girl.

I haven't been like, you know, when we agreed to purchase a home five years ago, like, I just feel at this point like I've lost trust also, if that makes sense.

With his word, because he said he was going to do one thing and he won't follow through with what you guys agreed with.

Yeah, so

you're losing respect and he's losing, he's not respecting your thing.

So this is a marriage breakdown.

It's come really deep here.

This is sad.

I mean, when I started the call, it was just like we need to buy a house, and now it's like this is tearing our marriage apart.

Basically, yes.

Oh, wow.

All right.

So

I'm not sure

he has gotten the memo yet.

Okay.

How serious this is.

I mean, I understand he left and came back.

It's not about the house anymore.

This is no longer about

it.

This is now about us agreeing on something.

We both have a vote and then executing on what we agree on.

And the statement, and which I think is big in a marriage, that I'm starting to not trust you.

Like, that's a bit, like, the one person in life that you should trust is the spouse.

Like, that's the, that is the, you know, that's the person.

Have you said that to him, that sentence?

I have.

Okay.

And how does he respond?

I mean, it's hard for me because he's very, he's a person who can't make a decision.

He overanalyzes everything.

So he acts like he understands why I would feel that way.

Sure.

But he just can't seem to move

past the point of actually putting it into action.

Yeah.

I guess if I'm explaining that correctly.

Yeah.

Yeah.

If I'm his, if I were sitting there in the office with the marriage counselor and you two were sitting there, I would challenge him that he now has grown to love the $600,000 cash more than a house and more than his wife's wishes.

Okay.

And that's a dangerous place.

That's a dangerous place.

That's what you've described.

Yeah, it's a great, it's a great way of saying it.

It's what you've described.

And I think you guys have got to work through that.

This guy sounds like he is emotionally

stunted.

And so,

yeah, you guys have got some work to do.

And then the house purchase will be a result of you having found some healing and trust and respect and those other words in your marriage and back in your relationship.

And the house purchase.

So I think the house purchase is not happening, is revealing other things that are going on.

It's not the symptoms.

It just sounds like a symptom.

And it's a deep scarcity mindset on his end, too.

I mean, he just, he didn't want to let go of anything.

There's a level of like that

control and he said he's a detail guy.

He's got paralysis of the analysis.

He's sitting around thinking about

the whole runs over in his head.

Here, and that's too much.

This is, I mean, it's

27,000 variables

at one time instead of just going and doing something.

Ready?

Aim, aim, aim, aim, aim.

There's some control he has.

Fire!

Oh, dear.

Come on.

Jeez.

Hey guys, Rachel Cruz here, and guess what?

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Today's question of the day on the Ramsey Show is brought to you by YReFi.

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Not in all states.

Today's question comes from Hunter in Texas.

My wife is a CPA and smarter than me, better looking than me, and better at everything except for choosing a spouse.

Good line.

She uses every dollar to make sure we don't overspend, but treats it like a general guideline, not something to actually stick to.

I always thought the budget was like a script for a play where you write the numbers, and once the play starts, you don't go off script.

Who is right?

I mean,

I yield to you, Hunter, in it, that when you set the budget, it is what it is.

Now, I do know after doing budgeting for 10 plus years, 15 years of marriage,

there's going to be a lot of circumstances.

For us, it's almost monthly now where things come up that you don't realize.

And so you have to add an extra line item.

You got to shift some numbers around.

So there is kind of this ever-moving part of the budget, which is going to be real.

Like that, that's going to happen.

So it's less of a guideline, but when you when you plan it you stick to it and when something comes up you may have to kind of shift and figure out how to make it work but it's still going to work within the numbers so that's how winston and i do it because i mean i had like a yeah like a 134

doctor visit i literally paid today from two weeks ago and i didn't know that was going to happen right and so you got to like put that in the every dollar budget and then i'm shifting other things so So things are going to come up that you don't expect.

And so there is going to be a level of having to be somewhat flexible.

But for the most part, I'd say 90% of it is planned out that you 100% should know from start to finish of the month.

Yeah, you need to agree on where every dollar is going to go to and stick to it.

And if you're going to make a change, and you will, as Rachel said, make some changes, but in the middle of the month,

the only way you make a change, two things have to occur.

We both agree to the change.

You don't make the change and they go, look what I did.

And we both agree to the change.

And

if you raise the amount of money in a category or create a new category, you've already spent all your money on paper.

So you also have to lower some other category by that same amount.

So if you create a line item for $134 for an unexpected doctor visit for a sick kid and that was not in the budget, then we have to lower

some other amount somewhere in the budget by $134

because you're not in Congress.

This has to balance.

And so two things occur when changes are made.

Number one, both agree to it before you do it.

Number two,

you lower another category by the amount you raised that category.

That's exactly right.

And so there still balances.

And that's another part of being debt-free.

When we tell people to work their way out of debt, you actually have margin.

So you may be putting some money away in savings, and you may kind of have to take some of that, lower a little bit of the savings to pay some of this stuff.

$134 less going into savings right that's right that but that's like all of this works in unison right like you're moving forward with your money throughout the baby steps to help even with some of these things which is great yeah but a general guideline means she's doing whatever she wants to do and reporting to you later and that's not okay yeah i'd be stricter on that that's not that's not no i think you're more right than she is and one thing you guys could do is sign up for one of our every dollar trainings we have free trainings um weekly now and the ramsey Personalities, we do it because Every Dollar within the budgeting app, it's going to help you not only with the budget, but we have a digital coach component, which is actually going to show you and help you work the baby steps to know: okay, what are things within my financial world that I can shift and change to be more proactive?

And so, all of that is in these Every Dollar trainings.

So, if you guys want to check it out, you can send them for free.

Yep, at ramseysolutions.com/slash webinar.

We do a QA.

We walk through a lot of these kinds of questions, like what you just had, Hunter.

So, yeah, make sure to check that out.

Rob's in indiana hey rob what's up

hey thanks for having me on i have a very quick math nerd question for you guys dave is your man

dave is ready for it

wonderful um we owe 125 000 left on our house and um our monthly payment for our mortgage is fifteen hundred dollars a month our take-home pay is about eighty five hundred dollars um we have a three-year-old son and we're only going to be able to have one baby because of covet related stuff

And I already have about $25,000 to $30,000 saved for my son's college already.

We have been putting $417

a month into a 529 for him.

And I was thinking about stopping putting any money in his college

basically to get our, just have another

$417 a month to put towards our mortgage to try to get it paid off in the next three years.

And with your guys' online mortgage payoff calculator, if I pay around $4,000 a month, I can actually get our budget completely paid off or our mortgage completely paid off.

Yeah, but you're talking about $1,500 plus $400.

It would be $1,900, not $4,000.

Yeah, yeah.

And I've went through my budget and I've already found another $1,500 that I can put towards it every month.

Okay.

And your wife's on board with all that?

I'm just wondering.

Yes, I think she's on board with all that.

And you've got room to breathe.

You're not doing rice and beans.

That's not what we're trying to do.

Oh, no, absolutely not.

we're we're doing just fine okay all right um yeah you can circle back to the 529 later if you need to after the four years because how old is your baby

three yeah so i mean three years from now the house is paid for four years from now the house is paid for there's seven if you need if you look up and they go 25 is not going to be enough or what the 25 is going to grow to is not going to be enough then i can add an add some money and catch back up you won't have any trouble because you won't have a house payment anymore

yeah exactly i figured if i put the money we put towards our mortgage back in for one year, that's $18,000, which would be

more than I was going to miss out on before.

Exactly.

And way more.

And it will continue to grow anyway.

It might be enough in there already, depending on the college choice and what you're planning to fund and all that kind of thing.

So if it's invested in good mutual funds,

it's $2,500,000, $100,000,

it's probably $200,000 when they get there

if you don't add anything.

So, you know, you need to sit with your

with your Smart Vestor Pro and calculate out what the 25 is going to grow to, and that'll tell you if you need to add anything at all.

And you can certainly do that after four and a half years, after the house is cleared.

So I'm with you.

Good plan.

Rock and roll.

Math nerd approved.

Boom.

There we go.

He said I have a math nerd question.

I was like, perfect.

Dave loves a.

I love a good math riddle.

Good math riddle.

I was that nerd kid for sure.

All right.

Mike's in Nebraska.

Hey, Mike.

Hey, how's it going?

Better than I deserve.

How can we help?

Great.

So I have a situation where

my parents, you know, growing up, I knew my parents weren't the best with their finances.

It's something that I initially struggled with, but then feel like I've done a, me and my wife have done a good job, but come to find out after my dad's passing a couple years ago, just how bad they were with money.

And they had essentially racked up $200,000 worth of debt living off of a line of credit.

Now it's just my mom on her acreage.

And I have,

over the past two years, been working to,

I started an LLC to do a storage business on her property in order to try and monetize her property a bit and get her more income

to cover the mortgage that we had to

get for her.

We had to get for her.

That I helped her get for herself.

Okay, so you're not on the mortgage.

We did co-sign on it because

my mom's 74, so we put because of our house was paid off, I co-signed for it.

Okay.

How can I help?

My question is,

she doesn't have a lot of retirement, little to none.

She gets like essentially like $5,000

annuity a year.

That usually goes towards her of the medicine that she has for the year.

She has Social Security coming in.

She has Social Security, yes.

How much is that?

She gets about just a little over $2,000.

Tell you what, hang on through the break.

We'll come back and talk to you.

I don't have enough information to spit an answer at you.

So hang on.

Many of you listen to the Ramsey show because you're sick and tired of getting nowhere with your money.

You work too hard.

to live paycheck to paycheck with no money in the bank.

But here's the deal.

Just listening to the show won't won't change that.

If you want different results, you have to do something different.

We've helped millions of people save money, ditch debt, and build wealth.

And you can too, but you got to have a game plan, and that begins with our get-started assessment.

Go to ramseysolutions.com/slash start now, take the free quiz, and get your free step-by-step action plan.

If you've had it with money stress and are ready to take control of your money for good, go to ramseysolutions.com/slash start now.

All right, we're talking with Mike in Nebraska.

Mike's mom is 74.

She's got $3,000 coming in for Social Security, $5,000 a year from an annuity to help with her medical bills.

She and her husband, Mike's dad, ran up a bunch of debt.

We're not very good with money.

Mike jumped in, took out a mortgage, and put a storage building on their lot and he co-signed the mortgage and that's how far we'd gotten in the discussion.

Does that all sound accurate, Mike?

Yep.

Okay.

Now, so how much is the mortgage now?

It's the mortgage right now is $1,300 a month.

No, I mean the balance.

I'm sorry.

Oh, sorry, the balance.

We started at $203, and it's at $185 right now.

Okay.

And the property

with the storage building, everything added to it, the current value of the whole thing is what?

Roughly probably

a guesstimate between $800 to $900.

Okay.

All right.

So there's around $700K in equity right now.

Okay.

And she's lived on this property for how long?

Since I was little, we've had it.

It's been in our family

land's been in our family since my dad grew up on the land.

Okay, so you're the third generation.

Okay.

All right.

So

your grandparents were there.

And you have memory of all that, too.

How much acreage is there?

It's roughly about nine, just under nine acres.

But

how rural is the area?

It's it's not it's right next to a

highway that connects to decent-sized towns, so it's it's not very

because nine acres at a hundred grand an acre doesn't sound like farmland.

It has two houses on it.

How many storage units did you put on it?

Right now we're like we have two sheds that do like basically, and we're doing RV and boat storage for the storage.

Okay.

All right.

And you live nearby?

Yeah, in town.

Okay.

So you're trying to help her run boat

storage, get enough cash flow to pay this mortgage?

Yeah, so the more like so far we've been able to, between renting the sheds and the storage, been able to cover the mortgage for the year as well as like a little bit more.

She gets

a thousand dollars rent from the other house that's on the property.

So

is she living less than she makes now with your help?

Sorry, say that again.

I said, is she able to live on the money that these things are providing her with Social Security?

She's I have her living off of

just Social Security.

She did get like my my dad was the type that he didn't he wanted my mom to

be at home.

And so

she never she hasn't worked for a long time after her initial career.

And then

but she does a part-time job now and all the money from that job goes towards principal on the loan okay all right so she's on board on all this sounds like she's very much like she she she realizes her situation she got her head in the game she's not gonna get to keep this property if she doesn't get her act together and she's getting her act together that's good

yeah the property is what i feel like is the saving grace for her um and what the only thing that we have like that keeps us from being

okay so how's her health financially

um she's she's her health is good not great um

are you the sole heir she's

um i have a brother as well okay

so what happens when she passes

um the the the land is split between my brother and myself

what are you going to do then

my hope was to build up a storage, the storage business on there in order to offset any costs for her future home care.

I'm talking about your brother.

How are you going to split the land with your brother when she's gone?

The land's large enough that we actually got an approval to

property line-wise split the property in half if we wanted to.

You can't serve a mortgage on it.

That's well, one of the questions I had, like questions for Colleen that I had for that was

I have uh stock uh from my company and it's sort of just been plateauing for a while.

Um and I was wondering if it would be wiser to take that money and roll it into her loan to pay it off and then have the property storage sort of pay back.

How are you protected from your brother ending up with that money?

Um my mom has basically said that anything that I put into the land, she would modify her will to make sure that I'm like any money I put into the land is protected as like first out.

So if we ultimately decided to sell the land,

you would need to take a lien on the land for the $185.

How much is the value of your stock?

Right now it's

$120, but as it rolls off, it'll be 200.

And then if the stock goes up, whatever growth from that.

As it rolls off, what do you mean?

Every quarter or so, I get more released to me.

Oh, so it's restricted?

Okay.

Yeah.

Okay.

All right.

So you just got to

stay with the company.

Yeah.

Is your brother have you got been having good communications with him on all this?

So you don't get burned?

I mean, we're we're on the same page.

I think

I'm more on

the hook financially than he is.

You're the only one on the hook.

Obviously.

But yeah, he's supportive and helps with the property and the management of things and helps with my mom.

So

he's on board with everything.

Yes, I would pay off the mortgage with your stock.

Yes.

Because the mortgage is in your name.

You have stock to pay off a mortgage that's in your name.

Yes, I would.

But you need to take a lien against the property.

Take a mortgage against the property at no interest

and to be paid when,

you know, to be taken as a as a

that guarantees that her will functions.

Because now you have a lien on the property and your brother cannot get anything out of the property until that mortgage is paid.

Okay?

And you got the ability to split the property easily because you're the mortgage holder then.

But you're not going to split a property with a commercial mortgage holder unless you refinance.

Right.

And if I guess the thing that

I've gone back and forth with was between the money going from my stock into the property versus going into like

retirement accounts and things for myself.

Well, this is your retirement because you're betting the farm.

Listen, you went and borrowed $185,000.

or you went borrowed to $100,000 now it's down to $185,000.

You act like your mother did this.

You did this.

You're liable.

You have a mortgage.

So no, you don't put money in retirement while you have a mortgage on a side piece of farmland.

No, absolutely not.

So

you left the position of separation a long time ago.

This is no longer separated.

This is not your mom's deal.

All entangled.

This is your deal because you signed up for it and you're heavily invested with time and effort and everything else i like where it's taking you guys overall because your mom has taken responsibility she's reined herself in she's you know

taken a job she's i'm living on a budget your brother's involved 200 000 take a lien on the property for that yeah yeah whatever whatever he pays off if he takes 185 pays off the mortgage and puts a lien against it for 185 that means 185 comes to him before he splits with his brother

after she's gone Yeah.

Yeah.

What about her $200,000 line of credit?

That's it.

They refinanced it.

They already took it out.

They refinanced it.

So that's the thing.

So we're getting rid of that.

And yeah, no debt now.

The only debt is you, and you're not collecting on it until she's gone.

And so that money's not working very hard for you, but it's, you know, you're dealing with third-generation land.

You guys are planning to keep it.

You're not going to liquidate it.

So

there's no out for you other than pay off the debt.

So, that's just you stepped into it and you got it on your shoe.

That's the way it works.

Our scripture of the day, Philippians 4, 12, I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty.

I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well-fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want.

Maya Angelou said, Forgive yourself for not knowing what you didn't know before you loaned it.

Oh, that's good.

That's good.

I like it.

All right.

Don's in Grand Rapids.

Hey, Don, how are you?

Good.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

I see on my screen that you are a baby step millionaire.

Congratulations.

Thank you.

Appreciate that.

Well done.

So, what's your net worth?

It is $1,773,412.

Way to go, man.

Way to go.

Give me a little breakdown on that by category.

What's it invested in?

Sure, it's $652,401,

$161,000 in a Roth IRA,

$35,000 in a $529,000.

Our mortgage, our house is paid for, home value of $446,000.

We have a cabin that's also paid for, validated at $385,000.

And then we have $91,000 in cash.

All right.

How old are you?

38.

My wife and I are 38, and we became millionaires when we were 35.

Way to go.

You did early.

Congratulations.

How much of this did you inherit?

We inherited about $90,000 from my wife's grandma when she passed away.

How long ago was that?

2018.

Were you already millionaires by then?

2022 is when we became millionaires.

Okay, so you shot up, man.

Way to go.

Okay, so mathematically, though, you did not become a millionaire because of inheritance.

No.

No.

This is all you saving and dipping.

And what's been your range of income since you started working, best year, worst year?

Worst year, $45,000 household.

The max is going to be this year.

We're expecting it to be around $315,000.

What do you do for a living?

So I work in supply chain, big analytics in the food manufacturing industry.

My wife is a manager for the state of Michigan.

We've both had incremental progress throughout our careers.

Okay.

Cool, cool.

So you've got a degree in supply chain, logistics?

My degree is actually in general management, and I have an MBA in marketing.

And my wife has a degree in environmental science and biology, and she also has an MBA, but that's in consulting.

Okay.

So how do you

attribute

the high of a 315, but that's just recently.

So most of this time you've been making probably between 100 and 200.

And you get to a net worth millionaire status at 35 years old.

Somebody's 22 is listening to us right now.

Tell them how you did that.

So

we graduated college in 2011, living on nearly nothing.

And once we got into our careers,

We just pretended like we had no money and just put all of our income towards getting our debt paid off.

So I graduated with $60,000 in debt and student loans.

We got that paid off in two years.

And we just really focused on putting our whole household behind getting out of debt.

That's what we did.

We bought our first house in May 2015.

We paid that off in four years.

And then we paid off.

We bought our cabin in 2023.

We paid it off in one year.

So I think really the big secret for us was

being extremely focused on getting out of debt, putting our entire household behind it.

Well, and you've been systematically dumping money in this 401k and Roth like crazy, too, because you got about 900 in that.

Yeah, we've been fortunate enough that we've been able to contribute to our retirements, but also have a high enough income that we've made, you know, get our debt paid off too.

So, um, yeah, lifestyle creep is not what I would say for you guys.

You guys have stayed very intentional.

Yeah, if if you look at us, we have a pretty average house with pretty average vehicles, and we wear pretty average clothes.

So, you know,

you know, walking down the street, you wouldn't see us and think we're millionaires, but we are.

So, it's pretty awesome.

Well, you weren't trying to impress anybody walking down the street, you're trying to impress the people in your house,

you and your wife.

That's all we're that's all we care about, impressing, and so that sets it up.

Wow, Wow.

Very cool, man.

So you think in today's world, the current economy, sitting right where we are, that if you came out of school, you could do this again in the same period of time or faster?

I mean, if I graduated right now, we had to do it all over again.

We could probably do it as fast.

That's just the kind of people we are.

We both legitimately get angry at the debt that we had.

When we first started paying off our mortgage,

we don't even know what the known payment was because we would pay four or five times that every month.

So and then every time we paid it down,

we would get kind of excited by it.

So we were spending thousands of dollars towards our mortgage and it was awesome because

our cost of living was so low that we could do it and it wouldn't hurt us.

So, but now we're set up for life and hopefully continues this way.

So great.

What are you guys doing now for fun?

Now that there's, you guys make a great income, you're doing everything, you have no mortgages on both property, on either property.

What does life look like now?

Well, we've got two kids.

We have a seven-year-old and four-year-old to keep us busy.

We really enjoy going to our cabin.

It's a good way to unwind and relax.

We spend a lot of time with our families.

We just took our kids to a surprise vacation over in Wisconsin.

And, you know, I think we're planning possibly going on a cruise next year.

So fun.

That's great.

Being in a position to where we could do those things without really needing to worry about impacting our personal lives is very enjoyable and freeing.

Yeah.

Wow.

Very cool.

Good for you guys.

Well done.

Well, we're getting ready to announce another Ramsey cruise, so be listening.

Join us on that one.

We'd love to have you.

Way to go.

We're so proud of you.

In your 30s, that's incredible.

What do you drive?

My wife drives a 2014 Chevy Sonic.

We bought that in 2014.

We bought it new, but it was a pretty inexpensive car, but we paid that off about three months after we bought it.

And then I drive

a 2020 Ford F-150 that we paid cash for.

Yeah, you need to upgrade your wife's car.

That car sucks.

Yeah, I know.

You have $2 million.

She's laughing at you right now.

She can hear you.

Yeah, your wife's car sucks.

You need to go get her a car, dude.

I will try.

She likes her car, though.

I don't.

Hey, Don, I'm proud of you guys.

Way to go, y'all.

We're so proud of you.

Way to go.

Baby Steps Millionaire is at 35 years old.

We're talking to him here.

he's 38 they are 38 they together there you did hear that very clearly we talk up to couples about the correlation between the ability to build wealth and working together oh and the speed at which you do it it's you're both all in change up yeah you're going we both were mad at debt we both agreed to put thousands of dollars on our mortgage we both were excited when we've seen the numbers go down it's like they yeah

that you heard the unity all the way through that so when we're trying to get you couples to combine your finances, we're trying to get you couples to be in agreement on where you're going and how you're going to get there, this is where it takes you.

You're 38 years old with a million seven,

and I'm griping you out to buy your wife a better car.

That's where it gets you.

Yep.

Okay?

Because you guys understand, when they're 44, if they do nothing else, this is 3 million 4.

When they are 51, if they do nothing else, this is $7 million.

This is is where this is going.

You want me to do it again?

$14 million.

You want me to do it again?

$28 million in their 60s.

That's where these numbers are going.

That's how this works.

And so once you get this thing going in the right direction and you quit supporting life insurance companies and banks and car companies and instead start supporting your own stinking family, you become this guy.

This guy's a rock.

This couple's a rock star, man.

Power couple.

And the values are.

Don't tell me you can't do it.

Don't tell me the American dream is dead.

I talk to people like Don every week.

I just think you've been listening to your communist college professor too much.

This free enterprise system stuff works, boys and girls.

Go do what Don did.

That puts us hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.

We'll be back with you before you know it.

In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

Up next, we are headed out to Chicago and Orlando for the Ramsey Show Live.

Yep, you heard me right.

We are taking this show to you.

This is going to be everything you love about the Ramsey Show, except you get to be a part of it.

Part of what, George?

The Ramsey Show Live.

Okay.

That's what I'm telling them about.

Ramsey Show Live in here?

Nope, we're doing it on the road.

You're going to Chicago with me and Rachel Cruz September 30th.

Are you free?

The windy city.

I like it that time of year.

You know what else I like, George?

I like the deep dish.

Oh, okay.

Maybe we'll have some deep dish.

You mind if I finish the promo?

Is that okay with you?

Okay.

Okay.

Appreciate that.

Questions and answers, real conversations, and I'm sure a few surprises here and there.

George, are you in here talking about TRS Live?

I am, Jade.

I'm trying to talk about it.

Nice.

So that means it's actually happening, right?

It's happening.

If I could tell the people, I think it could actually come to fruition.

Listen, just tell me when and where.

You don't know?

Okay, we're going to Orlando.

You're going to join Dr.

John Deloney and I October 2nd.

Yes.

Okay, great.

I'm going to go pack now.

Please, please do that.

Go.

Pack.

Hey, George, speaking of packing, is this like sweater weather or is it not that cold yet in Chicago?

What is happening?

Can I please just get to how they buy the tickets?

Jeez, I thought it was a good question.

Okay.

This is not an arena tour.

This is a one-night only event in Chicago and Orlando.

General admission is only $39.

Plus, there's a VIP experience if you're bougie like that.

But here's the thing: there's only 300 seats available, so get your tickets now at ramseysolutions.com/slash events.

Hey, how come you get to go to both cities?

I just go where they tell me, man.

Hey, have you been there the entire time?

Maybe.

Okay, and also, are you reading a children's book?

I'm expanding my mind, George.

That's how we got those PhDs.

Yeah, that's probably where you got that jacket.

Okay, see you on the road, John.