Debt Is the Enemy of Your Freedom

Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke, and common sense is weird.

So we're here to help you transform your life from the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio.

This is the Ramsey Show.

George Camill, Ramsey personality, host of The George Camill hit on YouTube and the Ramsey Networks.

He's my co-host today, number one best-selling author.

And we're happy to have the leadership team from Fairwinds Credit Union here with us today at Ramsey Headquarters.

Welcome, you guys.

If you haven't heard, Fairwinds is our new studio sponsor.

We've had a relationship with them for a little over a year, and they've done a lot of wonderful things for you folks out there that have contacted them and they've even developed products just for you to get help.

And as you guys know, I'm not a fan of, actually, I detest large banks

so stuff like Bank of America why would you do business with them if you don't have brain damage so are people like fifth third

and I can go on from there and just name off all of my anti-friends but I won't so instead we tell folks to go to small town local banks and to credit unions and we always have for 30 some odd years on this show and because you get treated like a human being there not a number and you actually find competent competent people there who care.

That's an unusual thing too in the banking world.

And so that's why we're so excited to have Fairwinds on as our studio sponsor and a partner for Ramsey.

And they are doing some really cool stuff.

You need to check them out.

They created the Smart Bundle for you Ramsey fans out there.

It includes a no-fee checking account, a high-yield savings account, which will help you supercharge that emergency fund, right?

Actually start making some money on that thing.

Don't keep it under your bed in a shoebox, boys boys and girls.

And the Ramsey debit card just came out brand new.

I saw the first real one last night at Winnipeg.

I got the prototype.

I got to see it, and it's actually a real one.

It says right on the front of the debit card, debt is normal, be weird.

Now, that's a way to pay for some stuff right there.

That'll catch some attention from the cashier at checkout.

Well, I mean, when you go to Target, like everybody in there that's ever worked there for more than 10 minutes is trained to try to sell you one of their Target credit cards.

And you just have to go, no, look, right here.

Read Read this.

Read my card.

Read my lips, right?

And no, uh-uh, right here.

Debt is normal, be weird.

No, I don't do your target card, baby.

So there you go.

It's a daily reminder.

You're doing money differently.

And the Ramsey debit card is officially launching September the 17th.

So we're there, baby.

You can get it.

Check it out.

So, hey, we're so excited about this whole fair wins thing.

And you guys ought to really,

you can't imagine how much trouble we would go to around Ramsey to make sure that if we were going to have a credit union doing banking stuff on our studio name and right next to our name, how much trouble we went to to make sure they're good people and that they're going to treat you guys right and not just run you up a bunch of debt or something.

They are great folks.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Really, really excited about this.

So check out the smart bundle.

It's got the debit card.

It's got the no-fee checking and a high-yield savings account at fairwinds.org/slash Ramsey.

Madison is with us in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

Hey, Madison, what's up?

Hey, Dave.

I have some questions for you.

Me and my husband are not seeing eye to eye on our car net, and I need your input.

Okay.

We just had a baby, our second baby, three months ago, and my husband pays all the bills, and I just pay the car payment.

Well, I'm sick of paying this car payment.

We owe about $12,000 on it.

We've had it for four years.

And I'm just like, hey, let's go get, you know, a cheap, cheaper car.

But he's all about reliability.

He's like, the older cars aren't as reliable.

And so I'm like, is it smart to go get like a $7,000 car, pay cash for it?

Or do we, you know, keep making this car payment?

I mean, I only make like $600 a month working part-time and being a stay-at-home mom.

So our car payment is $3.65 a month.

And I'm like, that is just.

over my, you know, that's all my money, basically.

So how long have you guys been living like roommates?

Like the splitting up bills and Venmoing each other?

Ever since we got the car, I mean, he's always provided.

Like, he's always paid everything.

No, darling.

The car.

No, darling.

Answer George's question.

Okay.

This is a pattern.

There's other things going on here.

This isn't just about the car payment, but you're making $600 a month, and he's like, well, that's your car.

You handle the payment.

I'm not touching that.

Hand him one of those kids and say, that's your baby.

I ain't touching that one.

Oof, okay.

Yeah, this is ridiculous.

Okay, stop.

It's ridiculous.

The way y'all are doing this is what's causing the problem.

Okay.

Okay.

You need to combine your finances.

All of your income is our income.

When you went down the aisle,

the preacher said, and now you are one.

He didn't say, and now you're a joint venture.

And I sure hope you can pay your car payment with your part-time job.

The preacher didn't say that.

Okay.

No, you don't.

And so you guys need to combine your lives because you have combined your bed and your children and everything else.

And so this idea that you have to argue over who paid for the mustard in the refrigerator is asinine for a married couple.

You guys need to sit down together, develop a game plan, work together on the whole thing.

And then, yes, you'll probably need to sell this stupid car.

I don't disagree.

And this idea that there's no such thing as a reliable used car is ridiculous, too, because 100% of the time that you drive a new car off the lot, you are now driving a used car.

Okay.

So, Dave, we also have a savings and we have like $10,000 in the savings account.

And he's like, what if we pay the car off?

I mean, we still owe $2,000.

That'd be okay too.

No, let's get the car.

That's okay, too.

If you want to do that and keep the car, that's fine.

We decide that together.

And then we have a monthly budget on every dollar.

And we...

are spending our

money

on our goals, dreams, and fears.

Okay.

Really?

Are you going to do that?

You really have to do that, hon.

I know.

I want to do it.

I want to do it.

But thinking about the

draining.

No, just demand it.

Demand it.

Okay.

You have to do this because

the people who do it have a higher quality marriage relationship and the people that do it have a higher probability of becoming millionaires.

We've got data that backs this up.

Okay.

You guys are not pulling together.

You're pulling at each other.

And when you start pulling together instead of at each other, you make more progress,

both relationally and everything else.

When you can agree on your spending, you have communicated at a deeper level of intimacy.

When you can agree on your spending, you have agreed on your future.

You've agreed on your fears.

You've agreed on a stupid car.

We can have an argument about reliability versus the $10,000 savings account.

We can take all of those things and mix them in together.

And you're missing out on all of that

because you're treating this like you're married to your college roommate or something.

And no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Please, hey, try it my way and push through the awkwardness for 90 days.

Do what George is suggesting and Dave is suggesting.

You'll never go back.

But if I'm completely wrong, you can go back and then you'll see a marriage counselor,

which is what you'll need because you can't combine your lives.

And that's what you'll be down to.

But please try it.

Yeah, right now I can tell they have separate accounts and he's going, well, this is my money, this is your money, I'll cover this, you cover that, and hopefully everything will work out.

Well, she's going to be in debt and resentful for the next five years, and who knows what he's doing with his extra money?

Nobody has awareness or transparency in this marriage.

There's no trust here.

Yeah, I don't, I don't.

Just scorekeeping.

Well, the biggest thing is there's just a tremendous amount of waste in this disorganization and chaos.

Yeah, it's like one of those finger traps.

They're pulling away and they're just stuck where they are.

You got to be moving in the same direction.

That's the key.

I haven't thought of those things in years.

I'm always thinking about those finger traps.

I have that metaphor.

Chuck E.

Cheese near you, I think.

Chucky coming from a Chuck E.

Cheese near you.

For way too long, I struggled with sleep and woke up groggy after tossing and turning all night.

But now, I look forward to bedtime and I wake up bright-eyed and bushy-tailed thanks to Casper, a company that's been perfecting better sleep for over a decade using durable, high-quality materials that actually last.

My whole family now sleeps on Casper mattresses.

Yes, even the dogs have their own Casper dog bed to no one's surprise.

And it's not just one man's opinion.

Casper customers keep their mattresses for years, and four out of five customers recommend them to friends.

And with free delivery and a hundred-night trial, Casper is no gimmicks.

A mattress you can trust, backed by quality that lasts.

So go to casper.com/slash Ramsey and use promo code Ramsey to receive 25% off all mattresses and 10% off everything else with code Ramsey.

That's casper.com/slash Ramsey.

Exclusions apply.

Brittany's in Missouri.

Hi, Brittany.

How are you?

Hi, I'm good.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

So my question is, my boyfriend and I have been together for a year and a half.

We've talked about finances upside down and sideways.

But from my past experience, a lot of relationships say they're on the same page with finances.

And then once they get married, one of them go and end up being a bigger spender than they originally led on to be.

So

your past experience?

You've been married before?

I have been, yes.

And that's what happened before?

Oh, yes.

So you married a man without integrity?

Yes.

And probably that lack of integrity bled into other areas, which is actually why you got the divorce, right?

Yes, absolutely.

Okay.

Go ahead.

I'm sorry.

So I guess my question is, I trust my boyfriend, but how do I, like, I don't know.

I guess I'm terrified that we will get married and then it won't be everything we talked about.

But I know it's just my past experiences that are

making me.

Well, I mean,

I think we talked about it a minute ago in a sense.

And for me, looking at it,

I think it's wisdom to ask the question because you got burned before.

Right?

Right.

But there's not, the only way to guard against it is to marry a guy of integrity.

Yes.

Okay.

And I didn't say he was Jesus, and I didn't say he was perfect.

I just said he had integrity.

Meaning, he is who he is, who he is, who he is.

I mean, it's kind of like saying, okay, how do I ensure that my boyfriend won't call his old girlfriend after he's my husband?

Because he's a person of integrity, and I would kill him.

And, you know,

both and.

You know, but I mean,

you can't be sure of that,

except as sure as you are of the man's character.

Yes.

And so you need to date long enough that you are sure of his character.

And you probably sit down and talk to your counselor, your pastor, about your wounds, which are valid wounds, and go, okay,

I don't want to superimpose the other jerk on the new guy.

That's not fair.

But I also want to be wise and not let that happen again.

So how do I balance those two things?

And, you know,

for me, I'm just going to be talking to

your new boyfriend a lot about about that if I'm you.

Okay.

We talk about it like every day.

Yeah, he's probably

sick of it.

So is he in debt now?

He is, not a lot.

He's got probably $20,000 to $30,000 in debt.

I have none, but I also make no money to be in debt.

Okay.

And is he actively trying to get out?

He is.

Aggressively?

Spends?

No.

He still spends, but he is working towards it.

I know he's paid off probably $20,000 to $30,000 in the past year.

Okay.

So you think in another year, he could be completely debt-free?

Yes.

Okay.

He could be debt-free in the next six months if he wanted to be.

Okay, so independent of you,

whether you were there or not, he seems to be trending in a debt-free direction.

His behavior is there.

He's not just giving it mouth service.

He's actually doing it.

Yes.

So I guess my next question is, is it stupid to wait until he's debt-free for us to make the next step of getting engaged?

I know you always say that just put everything together and pay off the debt together.

No,

I would not base my engagement on debt-free.

I would base my engagement on his pattern of behavior.

Okay.

If he's going in the right direction and you're comfortable with his character and this is who you want to spend your life with, then spend your life with him.

I'm not, you know, if you have to put out a

ultimatum.

I don't know.

In order to earn my hand, you will have.

That's a little much.

You've already earned it.

How long have you guys been together?

A year and a half.

A year and a half.

Okay.

So this is still progressing toward an engagement, maybe in the next year.

Yeah.

We don't tell people to wait to get married or have babies based on their debt.

We do tell them to wait on those things based on how they're treating their debt.

Are you being a freaking adult and addressing the issue, or are you still being a baby child?

Right.

And that's the...

Yeah, he's definitely addressing it.

Yeah, he's doing it.

Everything you've described about the guy is solid versus the last guy.

And so, but I, you know, it's fair to say you got burned.

And so I've got this

spot.

And man, you just really,

I'm going to be super sensitive about this subject because I got burned before.

And so, dude, you're going to have to be super diligent to stay on the path.

I'd share your fears and feelings with him and say, listen, this has happened in the past.

I don't want to project this onto you, but I want you to know this is how I'm feeling.

And if I'm him, now I'm going to be real sensitive and probably more aggressive to getting out of debt so that you feel like, man, he's going to provide.

He's not going to be making dumb financial decisions that move us backward.

Yeah, Brittany, I'll give you an example.

Okay, we went broke.

We had a brand new baby, a toddler, and a marriage hanging on by a thread.

My wife was terrorized

by our water being cut off, our lights being cut off, and me filing bankruptcy.

She was in a constant state of fear.

That was 30 plus years ago.

I still, as a loving husband to this day, need to be aware that there is a wound when it comes to security around the issue of money with Sharon Ramsey.

She's not a walking wounded warrior.

That's not, and the wound has healed progressively over the 30 years, and my behaviors for 30 years have been different than the get-rich-quick moron that went broke.

Okay.

So I've earned the right of trust, but I, as an act of love towards her, need to remember that if I even walk near the drawer where the emergency fund is kept, where the little file, you know, so we can get to the emergency, if I even walk near the drawer, like I'm going to use that for something else, it puts her in a way different state of mind.

And I need to keep that in mind in how I interact with her.

This guy needs to keep in mind that you got burned before and you've got this sensitive place.

And it'll be less sensitive as time goes along,

but you just need to be aware of each other's

wounded spots and go, why would we go there?

And so I'm just real aware.

Sharon needs to be reminded that we're okay.

And we earn it every day by continuing that same pattern of integrity.

And the crazy part is it takes a long time to build a trust and you can destroy it in a second.

But even then, it's not unfair to me

to,

even though I've rebuilt a trust and a pattern's been for 30 plus years, right?

It's not unfair to ask me to be aware that she has that sensitive spot, right?

As a matter of fact, that's just how you live together if you're married.

And so that's fair.

It's fair, Brittany, for him to be aware of this.

It's not an invalid feeling.

It's not an invalid concern.

And there's tactical things you can do once you're married, like combining your bank accounts so you both have transparency into what's going on financially, doing that budget together, freezing your credit so that no one can go just take out a loan willy-nilly.

And if he goes and takes out debt behind your back, well, clearly there's a very clear violation of trust here.

And so that's your biggest fear.

And I think there's things we can do before then.

And I guess my point is, in this case, were he to do that, knowing that she has this sensitive spot, this is more than just a violation of trust.

This is like saying, I don't really want to be here.

Yeah.

You're like, you're

shooting.

You're shooting the debt.

I mean, you're shooting the cow.

It's over, man.

It's just dumb.

So you're going, you know,

knowing that she's got that spot.

So it's quite the opposite way to approach it.

So it's a good question, Brittany.

Thank you for bringing it up.

And it's a pretty standard thing if you have been down the,

you know, you're going into a second marriage relationship.

If the first one had some kind of money problems, which by the way, money problems, money fights, number one cause of divorce in North America.

So if you went through a divorce.

High probability that there's a money issue in there.

And then you take that to the next relationship.

And how do I deal with that and not have that happen again?

That's That's why I want to spend a minute on her question because it's not just for her.

It's for, you know, out of the 40 million people out there listening, it's probably a couple more just like her.

A lot of people have that baggage from previous relationships, whether it's family or a loved one, a marriage.

And it takes a long time to heal from that and to trust again.

And at any moment, you're going, my body's saying, this could be broken.

This could be broken.

Alert, alert.

And so it takes time, like you said, to get away from that and to heal from that.

And hopefully over time, you guys build the right habits.

You do the things we teach, combine bank accounts, get on a budget, and that'll sort of disappear into the back of your mind.

Yeah, when there's no money being spent that you're not aware of and have agreed to, that makes trust really easy.

And that's called a budget.

That's called doing your every dollar budget together as a couple when you're married.

Hey, you guys, more than a hundred million Americans carry medical debt, and that is so scary.

And it shows that traditional coverage often leaves people to face big bills alone.

Families need more than just coverage.

They need community.

So what if your healthcare costs less and you are actually supported by other believers in the process?

That's why I love Christian Healthcare Ministries.

CHM is a budget-friendly, faith-based alternative to health insurance that's been serving believers since 1981.

And they've paid over $12 billion in medical bills.

Y'all, that is faith in action.

So let me say it again.

CHM is not insurance.

It's a nationwide health cost sharing ministry.

It's Christians helping other Christians with their medical bills.

With CHM, you get to choose your providers.

There are no networks, no surprise bills, and no insurance headaches.

Whether you're just starting out as a family or you're looking for something that fits your budget better, CHM is where your faith and finances agree.

Programs start at just $98 a month.

So go to chministries.org/slash budget to learn more and take the leap of faith today.

That's chministries.org/slash budget.

Wild world out there in the real estate market right now.

If you're thinking about buying or selling a home, it's a big deal.

You want a real expert in your corner, not your Aunt Sally who got her license three weeks ago.

Your house is too expensive to put with the guy down at church who's never sold a house.

You need to actually get a pro in your corner.

This is a big asset, and you need to have somebody that's high-octane, high-protein to get it done.

The Ramsey Trusted program is the only way to find a top agent that you can trust who is high octane, high protein, and they'll help the home be a blessing and not a burden.

It's easy to compare the agent profiles, interview them, choose the right one to work with.

Find a local Ramsey Trusted Real Estate Pro for free at ramseysolutions.com slash agent or click the link in the show notes.

Shane is in Michigan.

Hey, Shane, how are you?

Hi, how are you doing?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

So my wife and I were in a serious accident, and we both lost our left leg.

And

things kind of just, well, it goes very fast once that happened.

So we went and we were in the hospital, we got out, and now we're starting to do our recovery.

And then we got lawyers involved, of course.

Luckily, I hit all the right boxes on my insurance.

So my medical for our injuries are going to be covered for the rest of our lives.

But the lawyers, I didn't know they were so fast.

Like they closed and they said, hey, in 45 days, you're going to get a settlement of roughly $350,000.

And I'm, you know, we're factory workers.

We try to do the best we can, but, you know, we're not prepared for, you know, a quarter of a million dollars.

So my question is,

You know, I ask friends and stuff, but what do I do from here to set myself up for success, not right now, even just in the future, because we are going to have hurdles and we are going to have challenges.

So that's my question is

how do I not blow this big lot of money and

set us up for a good future?

Yeah.

Man, you guys have been through hell.

I'm sorry.

Yeah, well,

how long ago was the accident?

We're not even three months through.

We're both in rehab and doing pretty good.

And you both lost a leg.

I'm afraid we did.

Yeah, we were going through a green light, and somebody decided to turn left, and we were doing 55, and

it took both of our legs.

You're on a motorcycle.

On a motorcycle, yes, sir.

All right.

Yeah, and

we're getting recovered, and all that recovery is covered.

Let me ask you this.

The first thing that comes to mind is that it doesn't sound like you're getting enough.

Well, that's the thing.

He was an underinsured motorist.

So we got $50,000 each from his.

Kind of an insult to losing a leg.

But I luckily, I checked the full pip.

So all of our medical stuff is covered from my insurance, my car insurance.

And then it maxed out at $250,000 each.

And then the lawyers take their chunk.

And we're left with, you know, what's left.

Your lawyer is getting a chunk of your insurance?

Yeah, we got a lawyer to make sure we got everything right, and they take 30%

of whatever insurance.

And basically, they got nothing for you.

I mean, they got his underinsured motors, which is basic stuff, and they got yours that coverage you already had.

There was no big negotiation here.

They just caused the insurance company to write a check.

They should have written anyway.

This is not a good deal for you, okay?

You're paying way too much in attorney's fees for them to do something that you probably could have done on your own.

This is not an injury lawsuit here.

This is just your insurance paying its claims.

It was an insult when we got it because, I mean, we're.

Well, it's not an insult.

It's all they had.

The guy's broke.

You can't get blood out of a rock.

Yeah,

but

it wasn't like a personal insult, but it's a sad small amount.

Okay.

Well, at least I know how we got there.

Now, back to your question.

Oh, man.

Okay.

350

mathematically is not enough for you guys to not work the rest of your lives.

Correct.

So you're, I mean, let's just pretend you invested it at 10%

for easy numbers.

That's $35,000 a year.

You're not, you know, that's not going to work out.

No, we made about $70,000 when we were working, and you get 80% pay for like three years.

Okay, so that's going to be helpful while you

rehab and retool for a new career.

We also,

just before that, we need a new roof, which we couldn't really afford.

So we refinanced.

We put all of our debt into the house.

I know how you feel about that, but I was out of options.

The house would have deteriorated too much.

So we owe $150,000, and we have no other debt but utilities.

So

what I would do is to try

to, during the time you're getting your 80% pay to create a career for each of you where the net is that you actually end up with your new careers making more than you used to make.

Okay, that's what we were kind of thinking, too.

If you get there, then you don't have need of this money for survival.

Right.

Then we can use it in the ways that you would rather use it, which would be paying off the house and investing it.

Investing in the market.

That was my question, too.

But I'm not doing that until you've got an income, dude.

Okay.

All right.

That's what I was wondering.

Yeah.

So you've got to.

What are y'all going to do?

You've already thought about this.

What do you think you're going to do?

I'm not sure.

You know, when I, so the bummer, too, was that

my friend had a trash truck driving job for me, which would have been a substantial step up, and they matched like double digit for your retirement, which we have none.

And

they would, it would have been better pay.

I got my permit and then two weeks I was going to, you know, start the classes and I had that job lined up and then we got hit.

And that kind of, I don't know, once I get the prosthetic and I get better with it, maybe I could do something like that.

But we're still talking manual labor with a leg that, you know,

I don't have any idea.

I don't know how.

But wow,

that's the stuff you're facing.

So you've got to solve for income.

And when you solve for income, then that frees up the money and then you can decide what to do with it.

And it's pretty basic because you don't have a lot of options.

I mean, you know, you pay off the house and I would sit down with a Smart Investor Pro and get this money invested and pretend like I don't have it.

In other words, I don't have a house payment anymore.

I don't have any debt anymore.

I'm going to live on a budget and I'm going to create a sustainable life with my income and never touch the rest of that money.

So you would pay off the house and then with the rest of the money

investing

and get somebody to help me because my friend was like money market account and

don't listen to your broke friends about money.

I know, I know.

Hey, I know.

Right away, I was like, I don't know.

I need somebody, I think, professional.

No, just go to ramseysolutions.com and click on SmartVestor Pro, and they can help him, George.

Yeah.

And then make sure you get an emergency fund before you invest that money.

Set aside six months of expenses to cover you guys in case of emergencies before you use the rest of that money.

But that'll set you up.

You get that foundation right and get the income going.

You've got a great quality of life.

The money will turn into a lot of money over time if it's invested and you keep your hands off of it because you've created a sustainable income with your new careers.

Yeah.

So, hey, I'm going to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book, Finding the Work You're Wired to Do, and it'll maybe help you on this journey of figuring out what your next new normal looks like.

What a wild, horrible thing to go through.

55 miles an hour.

With no protection there

on that motorcycle.

Yeah, that's just, wow.

Man, crazy.

But here's the news on the compound growth.

Like you mentioned, you leave $150,000 sitting there for a couple decades, it turns into a couple million if you add nothing to it.

And so that's the good news is that this could add a nice cushion to their nest egg.

And who knows what the rest of their life looks like with expenses and medical and how this affects other areas of their life.

Exactly.

Well, the great news is he's got 80% pay.

That's pretty good workers' comp right there, man, or whatever it was he's got.

Disability.

I guess disability income is probably what it is.

Yeah.

Wow.

Yeah, he had checked the boxes on the insurance.

Lawyer ought to be ashamed of himself taking a fee on that.

Life is unpredictable.

That's why I teach the importance of things like having an emergency fund, buying term life insurance, and getting a will from my friends at Mama Bear Legal Forms.

Because if you don't plan ahead for when you're gone, it can cause a big mess.

And that's the last thing your family needs, especially when they're grieving your loss at the same time.

But a will spells out exactly what you want to happen after you've passed away.

No guesswork, no courtrooms, and no family fights.

Just peace and clarity.

It's your way of saying, I love you, and I took care of this, so you don't have to.

And thanks to Mama Bear, getting your will done is fast, easy, and affordable.

In just 20 minutes, you can give your family the peace of mind they'll need during one of the most challenging times of their lives.

And unlike a lot of other online will companies, the price you see at the beginning is the price you pay at mama bearlegalforms.com.

So take care of it today.

Go to mama bearlegalforms.com, use the promo code RAMSI to save 20%.

That's 20% off with code Ramsey at mama bearlegalforms.com.

Katie is in Louisville, Kentucky.

Hi, Katie.

How are you?

Hi, I'm great.

Long time listener.

First time caller.

I'm so excited.

Well, thank you.

How can we help today?

Yes.

Hi.

I'm calling because I have a mother-in-law who has been scammed out of probably somewhere between $150,000 to $200,000.

She

a quarter mile from our house in a patio home, which she purchased from the sale of her home in North Carolina.

That patio home is in my husband and I's name.

And we're wondering if she should move in with us.

Why would she do that?

Well,

she no longer can pay for the mortgage out of what what she is currently getting so she didn't purchase she didn't pay for the home when she bought it she took out a mortgage when she bought it

she took out a mortgage the mortgage is in our name my husband and i

so she didn't have enough money from the sale in north carolina to buy the house

No, well, she did.

She stockpiled the rest of it in a savings account.

And then

when she had an online scammer tell her that he was gonna come to the United States and marry her not once, but in the romance

scam.

Yes, the romance scam.

That's exactly right.

And so obviously, you know, my heart bleeds for her because she's lonely.

She lost her husband probably 11 years ago.

And my husband and I, when we first got married, he said to FYI, when my dad dies, my mom's moving in with us.

And I said, that was great.

I love your mom.

Plus, she gives me diamonds.

Okay.

So

if you sell the patio home and she moves in with you, then you've gotten your wish.

What's the question?

Yes, yes.

So the patio home is

probably $250,000, some odd thousand dollars.

However, my husband and my mother-in-law don't want that to happen.

We are supporting my mother-in-law with

not a lot, basically $50,000 to $100 a month to stay in her patio home.

But we can't afford that either.

My husband and I are both horse trainers.

We got into a little bit of tax trouble after the sale of a horse a couple of years ago.

Now we have a great accountant on board.

And I see the light at the end of the tunnel.

We

could probably be debt-free.

What is your household in the patio home?

We are averaging.

I'm using the Dave Ramsey app, which I love.

We're averaging about $7,200 a month.

You can afford $100.

Pardon me?

You can afford $100.

You said you're giving her $100 a month to stay afloat.

And I can't afford that.

That's not true.

You can afford it.

You have $7,200.

$100 is not breaking you.

It's not breaking us, but we are

like by the end of every month.

Yeah, you have other issues then.

It's not your mother-in-law.

You have $7,100 worth of other issues.

Yes, yes, we do.

We do.

And the other part is, if mother-in-law can't pay the mortgage, you're getting foreclosed on because it's in your name.

Yeah.

So

that is also correct.

Yeah, and she's paying that with her Social Security, I assume.

She is paying that with her Social Security, and then on top of it, barely has enough to pay for the medication that she needs.

Right.

So this is unsustainable for her to stay in this house.

Yeah, well, at $100 a month, it's sustainable, is what she's saying.

Yeah.

They're giving her $100 a month.

That's making her budget balance.

And that's what her husband and the mother-in-law want to do.

And she wants to sell the house and have her move in for $100.

No, you don't have a math case to make this case.

If you guys as a family want to do this to take care of her and everyone involved thinks it's a great idea, it's not a problem for me.

Sell the patio home and put the money in an investment and you'll be fine from the equity in that thing.

But the

idea that $100 a month is not sustainable when you make $7,200 is not true.

There's other things going on in your budget that may not be sustainable.

So if that's what they want to do, you can afford it.

I just, I

wouldn't be my first well, I don't know.

I mean,

if you want to, if she wants to live there, doesn't want to live there, I don't want to force her to live there.

So it's just.

It sounds like she's more lonely than anything at this point.

Yeah.

But she's a quarter mile away.

She's not too far.

Austin's in Oklahoma.

Hey, Austin, what's up?

Hi, Dave.

So about three years ago, my wife and I, we bought our home.

And then now my wife is looking at going and getting her doctorate degree.

And so if we were to do that, we would have to move away for a little while, probably three, maybe four years at the max.

And so, my question to you is, would you suggest we sell our home and take that equity to pay off and not get any student loans?

Or would you suggest us just renting the home, taking on some loans or some debt for that student for the doctorate degree?

And then eventually we'd like to come back.

And so, that's the main reason we would want to rent instead of just selling it.

I don't know.

What are your thoughts?

Why is she getting a doctorate degree?

So she can be a professor.

In what?

It's like a

biblical theological studies.

And

does she have a career now?

She does.

What does she make at her career?

About $40,000.

Okay.

And so she could make $100,000 as a seminary professor?

Yeah.

Probably between $80,000 to $100.

Yeah.

That's probably about right.

I agree with you.

So that's the return on investment in the Ph.D.

And what's the Ph.D.

cost?

It's about $60,000 to $80,000.

Okay.

So you're going to spend $60,000 to $80,000 to

get a

$40,000 raise.

That's probably okay.

I'd spend $60,000.

I wouldn't spend $80,000.

But,

yeah.

And that's going to take how long?

Uh, I think the max is typically four years.

I think it can be done in three at some schools, depending on which one.

Is she working while she proceeds?

Also, then she has to go somewhere where she can get that job after she completes it.

And it probably won't be your hometown.

Yeah, I there we do have some connections in the hometown with a couple of schools.

Um, so there is like there's a chance,

not super high.

But I mean, it's not, it's not a sure thing.

So number one, I'm not going to tell you to borrow money for student loans, period, ever, under any circumstance.

Number two, I'm not going to tell you to borrow money on student loans so that you can keep a rental property.

So that would just double down.

So no, I'd sell the house for sure.

Okay.

Yeah, if she wants this dream and you guys are on this dream more than you want this house, then it sounds like you do, then the proper thing to do is use the house money to get the PhD and then use the PhD to get your next house.

Okay.

Which we do have

savings,

but I

don't have to do the funds and everything else.

You don't have enough to do this because you said you were going to take out student loans.

But

it would cover about half of it.

So it'd still be student loans.

No, don't do student loans.

Pay cash for the PhD or don't do it.

What's your household income?

About $180,000?

Yeah.

I mean, you could save up in a year and

knock this out and cash flow it.

Here's an irony for you.

Here's an irony for you.

You can't find anywhere in the Bible

that God used debt to finance

his

plan on the earth.

Not once in there.

And she's going to study biblical studies.

So, no, don't be borrowing money to do this.

No.

you know, it's too much irony here to chew on.

Don't do it.

No, no, don't do it.

And don't go into debt for a PhD.

Don't go into debt for a master's.

Don't go into debt for a bachelor's.

There's lots of ways to get your education out there today.

It's ridiculous to do that.

And then try to keep in mind that what you're looking for is a return on investment on this education.

And the lower the investment, the better the return.

So get the cheaper PhD because nobody's going to give a rip where you went to school.

Hey guys, if you're already shopping at Aldi, way to maximize your grocery budget.

Good for you.

Now, here's how to level up your savings.

Make Aldi your first stop every week.

From fresh organic produce to grass-fed beef to marinated chicken that's ready to cook to high-quality dairy products, you'll be able to snag everything you need without the hassle and nonsense, just legit quality and low prices.

And families like yours can save up to $4,000 a year just by shopping at Aldi.

And that's not a hack, it's just a smarter habit.

So stop overpaying, make Aldi your first stop for groceries, and watch the savings stack up.

Find a store near you at Aldi.us.

That's A-L-D-I.us.

Savings based on regional analysis of Aldi versus select competitors.

Prices may vary by location, product availability, and the market.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio.

George Campbell, Ramsey personality.

Number one best-selling author and co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour.

He's my co-host today.

The phone number here is 888-825-5225.

Julia's in Colorado.

Hi, Julia.

How are you?

Hi.

How are you guys?

Better than we deserve.

What's up?

Well, first of all, I love you guys.

So happy to hear that.

I have been listening to you guys for like the last eight months, me and my husband and I.

And we've been working on getting through steps one and two.

We just had a baby.

not that long ago in May.

And I heard just through the grapevine that my mother is going bankrupt.

I think she already filed, actually.

And she has a parent plus loan

from my first two years of college.

And husband just recently just started asking me to help pay for it, which we already agreed that I would pay for it.

That was the goal.

But I had like no idea what we signed up for.

And I don't know what it looks like with her filing bankruptcy.

The parent plus loan is not bankruptable.

It will depend on what type of bankruptcy she files as to whether it will affect the loan at all.

There's two types of bankruptcy that might work.

One would be Chapter 13 bankruptcy, which is a payment plan for five years.

If she puts the parent-plus loan in the chapter 13 bankruptcy,

which if she's doing one, she probably did, then they're going to be paying payments inside the bankruptcy on that loan through that five-year period of time.

Oh, okay.

And so it's a mess.

It's a mess.

And so

if she files Chapter 7 bankruptcy, which is what most people think of when you think of bankruptcy, which wipes the slate clean, the Parrot Plus loan is not bankruptable and it'll still be standing after the bankruptcy.

It'll wipe off her credit card debt.

It'll wipe off her medical debt.

It will wipe off any unsecured debt, but it won't wipe off a student loan or an IRS debt.

So

she still owes it.

But the bottom line is you morally owe it because you promised to pay it, correct?

I did.

So it's not

either way, it's not going away.

And so either way, you're going to get the opportunity to do what you said and pay the bill.

But you don't even know how much the stupid thing is.

I do, actually.

They sent me a statement last year.

Okay.

And I just had trouble

getting in there because I thought I was co-signed on it.

Like my name was still on the marketing.

Not on apparent pay.

You can't get in there, but what was the balance?

It was about $19,000.

Okay, good.

And what's your household income?

A couple hundred.

So my husband and I, we make anywhere between $40,000 to $50K.

We're working on growing our income right now.

He just started a business,

and that's gradually growing as time goes by.

And how much time do you have other than this $19K parent-plus loan?

So without that, it would be about $30K.

Oh, no.

$16 of it's

$16 on credit cards.

He has a credit card.

And then we have a car, which is only about $9,800 of it.

And then the rest is other student loans because I went back into school thinking I can do it now that I was sober because I went through this whole time period where I was struggling in addiction and I really got behind on finances.

And

it took a long time to catch up.

This is my fourth year.

Good for you.

Proud of you.

what were you what were you on what were you addicted to

um

mainly so i started out on psychedelics and then i would use weed to kind of make up for it yeah when i gave up the harder stuff and you've been dry for four years good for you

and you got a baby and things are turning around your husband's got a new business good good good for you i'm glad yeah good thank you are you working full-time right now

So, yes, I am working full-time.

I'm an independent contractor in the marketing industry industry as a brand ambassador.

So, I have busier seasons, like throughout the summer and spring into fall, and then winter is our slower season.

So, we like to make up for it with Instacart.

And then we also do ministry on the side, so we have some fundraising money that's coming in, and we're starting to learn how to fundraise a little better for that stuff.

All right.

Yeah, and he's got to get his business going because y'all don't make any money.

No, we don't make a lot.

Yeah, well, you need to really get the career going, both the careers going, and get them going.

Because basically, what we're saying is you got $30,000 worth of debt plus $19,000 that you promised to pay of your moms.

And again, you're not legally obligated.

So what I would do is deal with what's in your house right now.

Let's get your income up and address these debts smallest to largest.

And once you're out of debt, then I would reach over and start taking care of the parent-plus loan that you promised to.

But it's not in your name.

You are not legally liable.

You're just morally liable because you did a handshake with your mom, said, I'll pay it.

Right.

And I think the problem is, like,

I explained that to her recently, that we're trying to do a snowball.

We're just getting our household in line and then paying off the way you guys teach.

But

we don't have the best relationship.

It's already strained.

Yeah.

And, like, we don't talk.

She hasn't even met her grandson yet

because I don't feel like I can and let her into my life.

Yeah.

Well, that's okay.

I mean, you still are going to go and pay the bill when you can pay the bill.

You paying a bill one way or paying it another way is not going to fix your relationship with your mom.

And it's not going to fix her money problems either.

Right.

She's not paying it now.

So, I mean, if you want to start paying the minimum payment on it as a part of your plan, pay minimum payments on everything but the little one, attack the little one, and when it's gone, attack the next one.

That's snowball process, right?

If you you want to pay this and put this in the debt snowball that way, I don't have a problem with that.

But prepaying that loan before you take care of these other things, no, I wouldn't.

Regardless of if it upsets the person that's already upset.

Oh well.

Right.

Yeah.

And what kind of business does your husband do?

So he kind of does a lot of different things related to music.

He runs equipment, and then he's a show promotion promoter, and he runs a record label.

So there's a lot of different things going on in that area.

Which one is most lucrative?

The most lucrative would probably be his show promotion and planning.

We make

we're making up to 200 a show right now.

So he needs to do 10 shows a month to make two grand?

About, yeah.

Is he doing that?

No,

but we're just getting started.

He just got started with that like a couple months ago.

I wouldn't make this a side hustle, and he should be working full-time doing something else, even if it's retail.

Because you guys need consistent income right now.

We can't hope for a show and hope for a brand ambassador gig.

We need stability.

Yeah, when Instagram's your fallback, it means you need new careers.

Right, so the problem is he had a manager job last October, and there was a lot of politics with the regional manager, and just last minute lost his job when I was pregnant.

And so he's been trying to get a lot of like jobs that doesn't require like 60, 70 hours as a manager.

And they won't hire him unless he's like

full-time.

Yeah,

he's got a baby.

He needs to be working full-time.

He's in crippling debt and his family needs him.

He should be working 60 hours a week right now.

We got a mess to clean up.

Yeah, great place to go when you're broke to work.

Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance, or they don't have any at all.

I don't understand this, John.

Why don't people want to take care of their family?

They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys, I didn't even think about it.

And one of my buddies said, Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids.

And I immediately went and got term life insurance.

That's a gut punch.

And oh, you're telling me, and for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse.

They've lost somebody important to them.

Me too.

They don't know what to do next.

Me too.

I mean, you're going to have a crisis here.

And, you know, you've got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow.

She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow.

That's exactly.

These are the two options.

And turn your head.

Take care of your dadgum family, man.

Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses, so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad.

Yeah.

To just miss you.

That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance.

Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable.

I've used them personally for 25 years.

They're the only people I trust.

Go to Xander.com or call 800-356-4282.

Our question of the day is brought to you by Why ReFi.

You've tried budgeting, you've tried making minimum payments, but those defaulted private student loans are still weighing you down.

Well, why ReFi might be able to help?

Learn more at YReFi.com slash Ramsey.

That's the letter YREFY.com slash Ramsey.

Not in all states.

Today's question comes from Kurt in South Carolina.

I decided to dive into real estate investing a few years ago.

I bought five single-family homes, all 100% financed, for a total of $825,000 and thought, wow, I'm a genius.

I also had $175,000 personal mortgage and $40,000 in student loans.

I had my wake-up call last week when I had to take my three-year-old with me to post an eviction notice on a tenant's door.

I just didn't take into consideration the time and the emotional stress this sleep would require, not to mention the constant calls for repairs.

The house is cash flow and the tenants pay on time, but at this point, the return doesn't outweigh the hassle.

I bring home $150K from my day job, and my wife, who's a stay-at-home mom, could work from home if needed.

How do I get out of this mess?

Man, this guy sounds like a young Dave Ramsey.

That's exactly, well, except I had a little better situation than he's got.

Yeah, he's 100% financed.

He's got personal student loans, and he's going, how do I get out?

Well, the good news with a house is you can sell them.

So that's maybe one way out of this mess.

George, that was insightful.

I'm Yoda of the finance world.

That's it.

Just sell the house, dude.

I I mean, why do you even need to ask the question?

And he might take a loss on some of them.

I mean, who knows what they'll do?

Oh, well, you pay some stupid tax for doing stupid stuff.

Play stupid games, get stupid prizes.

But yeah, I mean, I've done that, right?

And you have, too.

Everybody's done that.

But yeah, you just woke up and went, I just did a bunch of $825,000 worth of stupid.

The good news, I can probably get $800,000 worth out of it, and it'll only be $25,000 worth of stupid.

And it'll make $150,000, so I'll clean up the mess.

Yeah, the good news is his day job has a great income.

Maybe they went up in value enough.

He said a few years ago.

So if this is, you know, 2022, we've seen some decent appreciation over the last few years.

Yeah, South Carolina.

Maybe you can make a little money on it even and get out whole.

That would be incredible.

Knock out your student loans in the process, get you an emergency fund, and restart from there and do it the right way, which is slow.

Which is, let's get rid of the personal mortgage first, then save up and pay cash for any investment property.

Katie's in Utah.

Hi, Katie.

How are you?

Hey, Dave.

I'm better than I deserve.

How are you?

Just the same.

What's up?

So I am the mother of eight children.

We just had our eighths back in April, and I homeschooled them.

I stay home with them.

And my husband is a physician assistant.

And a couple of years ago, we bought our first home at the top of the market, top of interest rates.

We were kind of lured into it by the 2-1 buy-down idea.

And our mortgage hit its full scope in July, and

I feel like I'm going crazy.

So, I'm wondering if you would advise us to actually sell our home.

How much is your house payment?

$3,900.

And what's your husband's take-home pay?

He makes $120,000, and that's

he works full-time at one clinic, and he works, he picks up a couple extra shifts at another clinic, and he's also donating plasma every week so we can pay for groceries.

Yeah, because your house payment is 50% of your take-home pay.

I know, I know.

And it was before the 2-1 started even.

I mean, it already was in the stupid zone.

As soon as you moved in, the 2-1 didn't even buffer that.

We were living with my parents, and I was expecting my seventh child, and my husband was competing an hour every day.

Yeah, but I mean,

you went from homeless in your mother's basement to $4,000 a month.

I know.

This is not like a small step.

This was a great leap.

I know.

Yes, you've got to sell your house, kid.

You bought a house you can't afford.

Unless his income is about to double, which I don't think that's in the cards.

I know.

It's not.

The thing, too, is that he loves his job so much, and where we live is actually very, very expensive.

So even renting like a three-bedroom house would cost us around $3,000 a month where we live.

Well, you can't afford to live there, then.

I've been telling him this for a long time.

Back in May when I had my four-week-old baby, I said, let's just sell our house and live in a trailer.

I'm willing to do anything, but it's hard for me to get him on board with making money.

I'm not saying live in a trailer, but you go to extremes.

You go to extremes.

A $3,000 a month rent to a trailer in one sentence.

I know.

Why don't you just go do something reasonable like $2,000 a month and live out far enough away that you can find that and let him go to work?

Okay.

Yeah, and let's get rid of this problem.

But yeah, yeah, don't, you know,

and then let's start talking.

Maybe you can find something you could buy that fits in that.

I don't care if you own or not.

But the house payment needs to be more like a fourth of your take-home pay, not half of your take-home pay, especially when you have eight little birds to feed.

I can't imagine eight kids in a trailer.

That's true.

No, we're not doing a trailer.

And we're not going back to mamas either.

None of that's necessary.

But I mean, we're a fur piece from there at four grand a month.

Okay,

this is a

big serious nice house here.

So there's a lot of different things we can do.

Millie is in Washington.

Hi, Millie.

How are you?

Hi.

Thank you for taking my call.

Sure.

What's up?

Well, I had to pay the student tax, and I did the wrong thing in the past, and I'm trying to do the right thing now, so I'm calling you and asking for advice.

My question is, should I cash out my index fund?

And if I should, should I use it to pay towards student loans or for car repairs or for both?

What's wrong with your car?

One of the problems, they're not sure, they can't figure it out.

The other one is like the cooling system.

He's replacing their estimate for that as $1,900.

Whose estimate?

The dealer?

No, the mechanic.

You have an independent mechanic that doesn't work at a dealership.

Correct.

Good.

Okay.

Are you you is it just you?

Are you single?

Are you married?

I am single with five children.

Okay.

And what's your income, ma'am?

Up until this month is about $3,000, but I am increasing my hours and I did just get a raise.

I do have some health issues from keeping me from working too many hours or physical labor, but for the job I have.

How old are the kiddos?

I'm working what I can.

My youngest is twelve, and the oldest is 18.

She said it off the college here this week.

Is there any child support or alimony?

No.

Wow.

In lieu of alimony, I did when we divorced,

I did get a little bit extra on the house when we sold it.

And that money's in the index.

How much is in your index?

Exactly.

$7,800.

Not much.

Okay.

And how much student loan debt do you have?

About $90,000.

Okay.

Well, number one,

you're out there fighting this by yourself, so you've got to get the car to where it's reliable,

period.

And nor debt is not the answer to do that.

So, yes, we have to use some of this to get the car reliable.

And the rest of it,

you know, we're going to try to make sure that you continue to move up in your career and continue to raise your income because that's going to be the issue to address the 90,000.

What did you get your degree in?

I got it in marriage and family therapy.

Okay.

Undergrad or did you finish your master's?

My master's.

You're licensed?

Yes, sir.

Why are you not doing that?

I am doing that.

$3,000 a month?

Yes, because I was only working three days a week, but I'm increasing I just increase it to four days.

And like I said, they just gave me a raise, so it will be going up.

Yeah, because

part of the issue is that I work fifty miles from home, so um

it makes it a little bit of a juggle with the kids and making sure they're out the door in the morning and such.

So can you do any remotely part-time?

Um, not with this company.

Hmm.

Okay.

Because, you know, i if we could arrange rearrange this situation a little bit, a typical marriage, licensed marriage and family therapist will make a hundred plus a year.

Yes, but I only am at an associate level right now.

I'm not fully licensed.

Why?

Because I just graduated in 2023 and just got this license in 2024.

Oh,

you've got to get some hours in to move up.

Okay.

All right.

Yeah, you're going to have, I mean, the income is going to be your overall answer, not a $7,800

index fund.

But for now, the answer is yes, fix the car.

But long-term, the answer is let's rearrange our situation so we can get our income up.

And I think that's going to be really, really important in order to be able to create a sustainable situation.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

Most of us are guilty of over-sharing with the wrong person sometimes.

and as fun as it can be to talk to people about everyday stuff when you need help with relationships anxiety depression or other clinical issues random people may not have the right answers sometimes you need real guidance from a licensed therapist who follows a strict code of conduct someone who's actually trained to sit with hurting people and that's why i recommend reaching out to my friends at better help better help is the largest online therapy provider in the world that means no matter matter what you're facing, they've probably got someone who specializes in exactly what you're struggling with.

BetterHelp is totally online, which makes it easy to fit therapy into your busy schedule.

To get started, just answer a few simple questions, nothing scary, and they're going to connect you with a licensed therapist who fits your needs.

Plus, if it's not the right fit, you can switch anytime for no extra cost.

BetterHelp has been matching people with therapists for over 10 years, and their 4.9 rating shows that they usually get get it exactly right.

Find the right one with BetterHelp.

Visit betterhelp.com/slash Ramsey to get 10% off your first month.

That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P.com/slash Ramsey.

If you're you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feeling like you can't get ahead, join one of our free Every Dollar Trainings.

There are new trainings every week this month, and they're all hosted by one of the Ramsey personalities, George or Rachel or Jade.

We're going to show you how to stick to a budget and even find thousands of dollars of margin using Every Dollar so you can get out of debt and start building wealth.

Plus, you can ask us any question during the live QA.

Sign up for free at ramseysolutions.com/slash webinar.

Greg is in San Diego.

Hi, Greg.

How are are you?

I'm doing well.

Thank you for taking my call.

Sure.

What's up?

So, after listening to your show, I learned that I acknowledge that I made an impulsive decision.

I attended a faith-based event in 2024, and the event pretty much motivated faith believers to invest in the real estate market and also the stock market.

I paid for that training.

I didn't have the money, but they told me that if I charged it on credit cards, that I would be able to make that money up during the zero interest period and pay off the charge and learn how to trade.

Well, that period is gone and it didn't happen.

So now

I'm stuck, you know, because now I have a $20,000 credit card debt from that and I haven't made much money on the stock market.

So now talking to my wife, I'm trying to decide, okay, do I keep trying to invest and pay and make money so I can pay off this charge that I accepted or should I just focus and go back to the snowballing the credit card debt?

I'm sorry, Greg.

Yeah, you got scammed.

Yeah, after the fact, I realized it.

And

we were doing the snowball effect.

We were on track.

We were about 20K away from reaching zero.

But when I saw this, I said, hey, we can do this.

And I'll accept my leadership decision at my home.

I thought it sounded great.

But it is what it is.

So I'll.

You were looking for an easy button.

And there is no easy button, yeah.

And this easy button is broken.

And you've discovered that now.

So I'm sorry, man.

Yeah, you just got to pay your 20 grand off.

And the last thing you need to do is keep investing the way they were teaching you because you're going to get in more trouble.

So we do have money on the side because I was going to invest.

So you're saying

more off paying off the debt?

About 8,000 bucks.

Yeah.

Just it you you know, you're going to do what you're going to do.

But if you ask us, we're going to tell you what we would have told you before you did all this.

And that's list your debts, smallest to largest, pay minimum payments on everything but the little one.

Take all your money that's not in retirement accounts and throw it at these debts in that order and let's get them cleaned up because the shortest distance between where you are and wealth is not an easy button stock market course.

It is your income.

And getting that back

and understanding that the borrower is slave to the lender is the only way to do it.

There's nothing worse than a scam artist except a scam artist that wraps himself in Jesus.

And charges $20,000 for this quote-unquote training.

Man, that's heartbreaking, Greg.

That just pisses me off.

I get so mad.

It's just so wrong.

But, you know, when you fall for stuff like that, you need to do a CSI on your character and your soul and your spirit and say, Lord, what is in me that allowed me me to believe that?

And,

you know,

there's some interesting

proverbs.

He who is impulsive

exalts folly.

Impulsive exalts folly.

Folly is the verb of a fool in action.

And I have been a fool in action.

I've been impulsive plenty of times in my life.

But I exalt folly.

I lift up a fool in action when I'm impulsive.

I become a fool in action.

The other one says, Proverbs says,

the wise see trouble and seeks refuge.

The simple continues on and is punished for it.

You just keep walking right off the cliff.

Yeah, just keep moving.

And I've done that.

I've done that.

I know better.

I know this is bad.

He even said it.

He's like, I know down inside of me,

I know this is, and you walk right into it anyway.

That wisdom section section of the brain just shuts down.

You go, I can get rich quick, though.

There's something about it, and I'm simple then.

That's another word for fool, right?

And I've been a fool in every one of these cases.

And, man, when you start studying fool and Proverbs, you start seeing yourself, it's painful.

It's just like, God, I did that.

I was holding up the mirror.

I did that one, too.

And the number of times I've been a fool and survived, because a biblical fool is not a greeting.

It's not like, hey, fool.

No, this is like an idiot.

I mean, this is like when I have done this, I was an idiot.

You know, it's like, yeah.

So, Greg, I can relate, man.

I can relate.

I haven't done that one in a long, long time, but I did that one once myself.

Not 20 grand, but I mean, it's, you know, you believe that there's an easy button and they'll sell you a course on how to get the easy button.

A get rich-quick scheme is what we would call it now, looking back at it, right?

And you go,

the wise, the wise see that.

They seek refuge.

They see danger and they seek refuge.

The simple continues on and is punished for it.

A healthy skepticism with these Facebook ads.

Exactly.

However, he fell for it.

Yeah, here's a healthy skepticism on anything on social media.

Period.

Is it even real nowadays, right?

Is it AI?

Yeah.

Oh, gosh.

Did he really say that?

I saw one the other day that I was promoting car loans.

Someone asked me, they said, hey, I saw a video of you and Dave promoting these car loans.

I said, nope, that was a scam from AI and the devil himself.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, if it's completely perpendicular to everything you know about us, come on.

I mean, how dumb are you to believe that?

That that's not AI.

But yeah, there it is.

And it's just, golly.

But yeah, it's we're there with you, brother.

But I'm sorry you haven't clean up the mess.

The good news is you probably never make that mistake again.

That's a good news.

Amy's with us.

Amy's in Chicago.

How are you, Amy?

Hi.

Thanks, Dave.

Thanks for taking my call.

I've been listening to the show for about a year and I'm almost through with the last bit of our debt.

We've paid off $500,000 in medical school debt.

Yes, we got radical.

We sold our house and used part of the equity to downsize and the rest to pay off the medical school debt.

Wow.

So what's your household income now?

Well, my husband's a doctor, so we're doing pretty okay.

We make about $25,000 a month.

Wow, good.

I'm so glad.

Congratulations.

Yeah, thank you.

Thank you.

But I'm in a weird situation with a car loan.

I'm in outside sales, and so I drive for work, and I'm putting on easily 2,000 miles in my car a month.

And I had to buy the car for the job, and now I'm underwater.

So I'm underwater about $7,000.

And I've just been told that my company is going to be going to fleet vehicles in the next year.

We have basically a year to three years to start participating in the fleet vehicles.

So they'll give me a car, and they'll cover all the costs associated with it.

Love it.

Yeah.

Well, that means between now and the time you get the fleet vehicle, you got to get this one sold and cover the $7,000, right?

Yeah.

When are you going to get the fleet vehicle?

Do you know?

It'll probably be sometime next year that they'll open it up for us to start doing that.

And at that point,

I'll have to have something to drive between now and then.

Yeah, we'll just keep driving it.

What's it worth?

Get it paid down.

You've got great income.

Yeah, that was my question.

Do I keep driving this and pay it down until I'm no longer underwater, or do I try and like sell it, get something cheap?

Well, if you pay it off, you're going to get all the equity when you sell it.

The difference in now in six months doesn't matter.

Okay.

So just pay it off.

Let's just get it paid off as soon as you can.

And then you get sitting there with a paid-for car, it's got a lot of miles, and you sell it when you get the fleet vehicle.

I mean, you can knock it out before the end of the year, right?

I think so.

What's left of it?

It's $36,000.

Yeah, you can knock it out.

Because now you've got a $400,000 income, don't you?

You make $25,000 a month if you throw 12 million.

You make $25K.

Yeah, you make how much?

I make $165 base.

He makes $165 base, and we both make commissions.

Okay.

All right.

Wow.

Good for y'all.

So, yeah, this thing's knocked out by Christmas, and you're not losing sleep over it, and then you'll sell it when you get the fleet vehicle and whatever it's worth.

And that makes you debt-free, right?

Yeah.

Woo-hoo!

Yeah, let's knock it out and then and be done with it.

Man, wow, good for you.

Good for you.

Casey's in Ohio.

Hi, Casey.

How are you?

Hi, I'm doing great.

Thank you for taking my call.

Sure.

What's up?

So

me and my husband are on baby step two.

I have a debt about $6,000, and

including his, it will be a total of $78,419.68,

which I find very appalling.

And we are...

Stop a second.

I didn't understand what you said.

You said he has $78,000 on what?

No, so I owe $6,000, and

adding my

husband's debt, it's going to total up to $78,000.

Okay, so your husband has $72,000 in debt, and you have $6,000.

Yes.

And his $72,000 is on what?

It's mainly on student loans.

And what's your $6,000?

It's medical bill and credit card.

I have $4,000 in medical bills.

How long have you all been married?

A year, but we've been together for six years.

Okay.

And what's your household income?

What I make as a nurse is about $90,000.

And my husband has his own insurance company, which is not doing well, and he makes about $30,000.

He did get a new job right now,

he brings from

$3,000 to $4,000 now monthly.

Our main issue is mainly

him disagreeing on

me giving tights every month.

And I do not like the fact that he has leased a Tesla and sold our car, which we only had two years and we could have paid it off.

So I'm not sure how we can, you know, work

together to tackle this debt and have.

When y'all got married, did you not talk about like doing life together?

I didn't think.

So before getting married, I was thinking about like, oh, my money's my money and your money is yours.

But I am watching your show.

I just, I come up on your show probably like a couple months ago.

And that's when I realized that, yeah.

So you want to get out of debt, and he doesn't really care?

What's the status now?

Well, he does care, but he doesn't agree with the baby steps.

He wants, I don't know, he doesn't want to get out of his credit card.

He thinks we need credit to get approved to buy a house, to get a car, and things like that.

And

one of your older daughters,

over 33.

Wow, you sound like you're 20.

Yes, I really.

He sounds like he's twenty.

He's so immature.

Yeah.

Wow.

Okay.

Um so what's his plan to get out of this mess?

He just wants he wants to pay off the

smallest amount that doesn't have an interest.

Yeah.

I mean, that does have an interest.

He wants to start with that.

But I know with the baby steps, you have to um start with the smallest amount first, which I've been doing.

I've been doing that myself, but

he hasn't.

I'm sorry.

I'm just so overwhelmed.

I've never been in this so much debt before.

The most debt I've had was a $6,000.

And

yeah.

So here's what you need to do, hon, okay?

You need to sit down with him tonight and say, I'm so scared I can't breathe, and you are killing me.

So I'm going to go see a marriage counselor because our marriage is in deep trouble, and I'd like for you to go with me.

Okay.

Okay.

And you need to go see a marriage counselor.

Okay.

You don't need to be talking to two goobs on a podcast when your marriage is falling apart.

All right.

You've got to sit down with somebody that can actually help you and him grow up and walk through the process of learning to respect each other, combine.

Communicate.

But this guy does whatever he wants to do and then just comes home and and tells you at least to Tesla I mean that's a husband needs to be smacked

and so I can't help you with that because I can't reach him from here but um

it's clear he doesn't respect your opinions on money yeah and he's not careful and he doesn't make any money which is kind of humorous you're making triple what he makes and then he and then he but he's got all these opinions that's hilarious broke people with deep financial principles and so but yeah it's that all that comes out in marriage counseling but you're terrified

and your husband's causing it.

So that tells me that we have marriage counseling issues, and you need to sit down with somebody.

I'm sorry you're going through this, kiddo.

All right, Eric is next.

Eric's in Houston.

Hi, Eric.

How are you?

Hey, Dave.

How's it going, buddy?

Better than I deserve.

How can we help?

Yeah, I just need

some.

you know, advice from Uncle Dave.

I call you Michael because I've been listening to you for a little while now.

So I just need some advice.

I'll give you the quickest, shortest story rundown I can.

A year ago, I was facing some legal troubles, had to go to court, stuff like that.

I needed a lawyer.

So I went to my uncle.

He was doing a little bit well off financially.

So I told him if you can help me.

find a lawyer, you know, but he decided to take on everything himself.

He paid for the lawyer.

You know, the lawyer won't want me to court.

Fast-track a year up to today.

I've come to find out

from the news and everything that he gained

all his money

from

illegal immigrants looking and seeking

legalization

green cards, stuff like that, to be able to live here in the U.S.

He was defrauding them, telling them that

he works for the law firm.

He can help them expedite that situation.

Your uncle was doing this.

Yes, sir.

Yes, sir.

How much do you owe your uncle for the lawyer?

I owe him $10,000.

And what do you make?

Okay.

But

let me give you just a quick sidetrack to that.

The money that he gave me, the money that he accumulated from all these people, it was about $1.4 million.

FBI and everybody, they did a joint task force investigation.

And,

you know, where I'm at now, I'm trying to figure out morally,

you know,

should I pay him back?

I would like to try to help off somebody.

You know, I mean, I don't know that you can.

Have they seized his bank accounts?

I mean, I'm guessing he's going to jail for a long time.

Yeah, they see his bank account.

He bought a camera.

Do you have $10,000?

No.

Okay, then it doesn't matter, does it?

Yeah, I mean, I mean, but

the thing about it, the thing about it, Dave, is that

he's been hounding me, and he, you know, he's been.

Hounding you for money you don't have.

Exactly.

And he's been throwing my name under the rug to my whole family, making me out to be this bad person.

We don't have to worry about what he thinks because he's a scam artist.

He's going to jail, okay?

We're not going to have some kind of moral opinion.

Nobody's worried about his opinion of anything.

He's a criminal.

He's a criminal.

Yeah.

So

None of that matters.

But what does matter is, regardless of how horrible a person he is or what he said or did,

he loans you $10,000 and you owe him $10,000.

So someday when you get some money and you get a job and all that, you probably ought to pay the man back what you owe him, regardless of morally, regardless of what he has done.

You know, that's up to you, but you can do that.

But that's your only option is either not pay him or pay him, but you don't have an an option today at all because you don't have the money.

So it's theory right now.

He can call you, he can hound you, he can tell all the relatives that you're a bad guy while he's sitting in a jail cell because the FBI raided him.

That's funny.

He's telling people you're a bad guy.

That's kind of humorous if you think about it.

But yeah, I wouldn't worry about it, Eric.

When you get some money together, then deal with the problem.

And when you get some money together,

you someday should pay the man back what you owe him, regardless of his character.

Because you paying him back is not about his character, it's about yours.

And so I want you to pay him, but not today.

You don't have it.

It's living rent-free in your head until you do pay him.

I can tell it's weighing on you.

You don't like what it's doing to your reputation.

So I'm not paying him because of anything he says or does.

And I'm not paying him because your mama calls because he called her.

I'm not paying him for any of that.

I'm just paying him because I owe him.

It's that simple.

Nothing more, nothing less.

You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car, but it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage.

To protect your biggest assets, I recommend using Ramsey Trusted Pros.

Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsey Trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would.

Find what you need at ramseysolutions.com slash insurance.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studios.

George Campbell, Ramsey personality number one best-selling author, is my co-host today, Open Phones at 888-825-5225.

Brianna is with us in Maryland.

Hi, Brianna.

How are you?

Hi, Dave.

I'm so glad to be here.

Well, it's good to have you.

How can we help?

Well, I'm feeling overwhelmed.

I recently signed up for the free version of the Every Dollar app.

I did all of my budgeting.

I'm still feeling underwater, and I can't find a second job.

But I'm calling because I want to find out if the 400% interest rate for the payday loan that I originally took out for $1,500 is considered actual debt.

It's not on my credit report.

I've already paid about $2,500 of it.

And when I realized that, I kind of like stopped answering their calls and ignoring them.

So just not sure what to do.

Why are you ignoring them?

I really don't have the extra finance to pay them.

And I figured it wasn't showing up on my credit report.

So it wasn't necessarily hurting me.

And I kind of felt like they already got their money because the loan was for $1.5 originally.

Well, it's debt.

I mean, owing anyone, anything for any reason is debt.

And so whether it has shown up on your credit report or not isn't the issue.

You've got clearly in a bad cycle.

I mean, there's a lot of problems that got you into that payday loan,

payday lender, right?

What caused this?

Yeah.

Well, I do a lot of lending, I guess, to my family.

And I'm actually currently trying to get out of like our family savings club.

Like we all put in like $600 a month.

And then when your month comes, like you get the money.

And then I recently

got a car.

It was $15,000, but I'm upside down.

It's just $55,000 student loans.

So I'm just trying to make it day by day.

I have a clearer picture of my finances with the Every Dollar app, but I don't understand why it's so hard to find a second job right now.

What's your total debt?

I've got $75,000.

And what are are you making right now?

Student loans.

$61,000 a year, about $3,800 net.

Okay.

And your smallest debt is now what?

Is it the payday loan?

No,

a $900 buy now pay later type thing.

What did we use that for?

I got a TV.

Okay.

How long ago was that?

It was about two months ago, and I was paying the minimum.

When did you start start the Every Dollar Out?

I only started a few weeks ago.

I just started listening.

Okay, good.

Good.

All right.

Have you stopped your 401k?

I did.

I did stop that.

It was only $900 in there anyway.

And you're going to stop the family thing today.

Just call the family and say, I'm out.

Okay.

They're not going to take that well, but I'm sorry.

Tough.

I'm broke.

I owe a payday lender 400% interest.

I don't need a family savings club.

You're taking out a 400% interest loan to put into the family savings club.

Do you understand how crazy that is?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So that stops today.

Just, you know, sorry, guys.

I'm sorry.

I've messed up my finances, and it's going to take me a little while to get them straightened out.

And I've got this payday lender.

I've got to get off my back.

And I'm sorry.

So, yeah, I can't put anything else in.

And I can't participate in something that involves money right now.

So

also not playing, I'm also not playing poker with you next week.

So, you know, it's like we don't have any money.

So, and then I don't know why.

What do you do for a living?

I'm actually a secretary for the Defense Counterintelligence Department.

So, like, I really can't have my finances out of order, otherwise, I'd lose my job.

Yeah.

Well, your finances are out of order.

If they did a security check on you, you're in trouble already.

I did all an audit.

Yeah, you've really got to get this mess cleaned up or you will lose this job.

You're right, eventually.

So, yeah,

there's lots of things you can do part-time.

I mean, you can clean houses, you can pet sit, you can do all kinds of stuff part-time.

And I would get with doing something starting yesterday immediately.

Six different things working my tail end off.

See if you can return that TV because you're going to be able to do it.

Because you're in a 90-day secretary.

You don't have time to watch TV.

You've got nine side jobs you're about to have.

And so just follow the debt snowball.

It works.

And get rid of this payday lender.

I don't care what's on the credit report.

You've got to get this monkey off your back.

Otherwise, it's going to be another fee, another rollover loan.

And that's how people get stuck in these cycles.

If it's been several months since you paid them, you may be able to call them and settle it with a lump sum, but you'd have to have the lump sum.

Say, look, I don't know what I owe you, but I've got $1,000.

If you'll take that as settlement in full, we'll close this out.

But you need the $1,000 in your hand to be able to have that discussion.

And that is involving extra work and extra income.

Anything you can do to create some extra extra income that's moral and legal, you need to start doing it yesterday.

Lisa's in Georgia.

Hi, Lisa.

How are you?

I'm fine.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

Question.

I've been married for 42 years, and then in the last few years, my husband's been diagnosed with mild to moderate dementia.

With that has come a lot of radical changes in his personality as far as our finances.

The latest is we have a second home we have for sale, and now he wants to rent it out, and I'm at a point in our lives where I feel like we need to sell it, take the equity, invest it.

That's our retirement.

Is he aware that he has dementia?

He's aware, but denial, strong denial.

Then he's not aware.

He doesn't believe it.

He doesn't believe he has.

He doesn't believe it.

He does not believe he has dementia.

One of the things he wants to do in our discussions now with the sale of the house, he's decided that he wants to take 50% of the proceeds and spend it any way he wants to.

The answer is no.

The answer is no.

You have dementia, and I'm not going to go along with anything you want to do.

No.

Well, that's the way I've been pushing back.

No, you have dementia.

You are not of your right mind.

And no, we are not going along with any plan you have.

I'm here to take care of you.

I have for 42 years.

I'm going to stick with you in sickness and in health.

And we're not doing anything you want to do with money.

You have dementia.

So how do I move forward to do I need to do a court order that he can't?

Because everybody else thinks there's nothing wrong with him.

I see.

Wait a minute.

Everybody else?

I thought you said the doctor diagnosed him.

That's true.

Well then everybody else doesn't think that.

Just the doctor.

Just the doctor.

Yeah, just he thinks there's his friends and his

who gives a crap what his friends think.

Yeah, exactly.

So do I need to do get an attorney and do a court order so that he can't make these decisions?

Because right now, if we're 50-50 on account, he can do whatever he wants.

I don't know how to move forward.

Yeah, I think you have him declared incompetent in court.

Okay.

And your physician's going to have to go along with that.

Because he's not of the right mind.

We have to protect him from himself.

Yeah, I don't know that he'd sign a power of attorney for you to have financial control.

No, he's not going to do that because he doesn't think he's got dementia.

Correct.

So he's going to need to be forced into it.

Yeah,

I mean, in order to take care of him, he's not of his right mind.

That's sad.

I'm so sorry that, because, you know, when people get early onset, they generally turn either really mean or really nice.

And it sounds like he's gone the mean one.

So,

wow, I'm sorry.

And so it's going to be really combative.

But yeah, what his friends think doesn't matter.

I mean, that's irrelevant.

What his mama thinks doesn't matter.

I mean, what the doctor says he's got this and you've observed the pattern then your job as his spouse is to take care of him

in spite of him.

And yeah that's a court order.

Hey, what's up?

Dr.

John Deloney here.

The new dates have dropped for the Money and Marriage Getaway over Valentine's Day weekend in 2026.

This is your chance to hit pause on everything in your life and reconnect with your spouse over a long weekend in Nashville, Tennessee.

Me and my friend Rachel Cruz will be digging into topics like sex, money, communication, and more.

This weekend is happening on February 12th through the 14th, and early bird prices start at $749 per couple, but the prices will be going up soon.

Get your tickets today at ramseysolutions.com/slash events.

Ed is in Kentucky.

Hi, Ed.

How are you?

I am doing well.

How about yourself?

Just the same, sir.

What's up?

All right.

Well, thank you all so much.

So, my wife and I were really excited.

We bought our house back in 08, and we have been throwing a lot of money to get it paid off, and we are on track to have our house paid off by Thanksgiving of this year.

Way to go.

Good for you.

Thank you.

It took a lot of hard work.

But so, you know, we're really excited about what's coming up next, but also that's a lot of unknown for us.

And so, you know, we keep investing in our 401k.

I've actually upped my 401k contribution rate, and she's going to be doing the same.

But just wanted to try to at least get an idea of what are some things that suggestions that you all would have for us

post having the house paid off because after that we will have no other debts yeah way to go well baby step seven we just say build wealth and give

and so there's three buckets and you need to be very intentional with the money that you will have and you're gonna have a lot of it now because no payments right uh and go you know there's three things we can do we can have fun and enjoy the money and you need to do some of that you can invest some and you need to do some of that and you can be outrageously generous and you need to do some of that and so you know you're still gonna look at the pile of money coming in every month and you're still going to assign it to something that falls in one of those three buckets and you need to have a pretty good rhythm where you're touching those buckets at least annually, but hopefully monthly

Yeah, definitely and you know definitely you know

the fun part and the invest part and the generous part.

Yeah, that that totally makes sense and that's something that we really want to to do.

And, you know, we just want to also make sure by the time we retire that we can retire and have some peace of mind.

And so

how old are you?

It was just like,

I'm 42.

And how much is in your 401ks now?

Retirement account.

Right.

Well, my retirement account,

I'm currently at $340,000.

You and your wife?

And my wife, she actually has a little bit more.

She is actually at around $500,000.

Okay, she got $850,000 in retirement right now.

What's the house worth?

The house is worth $175,000.

Okay.

So you're millionaires.

Cool.

In your 40s.

That's pretty neat, yeah.

Yeah.

The 800,000, if you don't touch it, you know, you said you're 40 what?

I'm 42.

You're 42.

If it's invested in good mutual funds, when you're 49, it'll be 1.6.

And when you're 56, it'll be 3.2.

And when you're

63, it's going to be 6.4.

You're okay.

You did it.

You're real far ahead on retirement.

So I wouldn't worry.

Keep investing.

Don't let the foot off the gas there, but also figure out, hey, do we want to upgrade a house?

Could we pay cash for a different house five years from now?

So setting some goals in your spending, saving, and giving areas at least once a year, and then check in and do the monthly budget.

You've been so focused on this house, there's some stuff you need to do in the fun category.

You need to upgrade her car.

You need to go on a trip you've been telling her for 20 years you were going to do.

I don't know what it is, but there's some stuff y'all need to do.

Renov the kitchen.

Oh, yeah.

Something like there's some things like that you need to allocate some money to.

And yeah, while you're doing some investing and while you're doing some increased and intentional generosity.

and yeah, you just keep all of those things moving and you know, make just make lists of things we want to do, and let's force-rank them.

What do we want to do first?

What do we want to do second?

What do we want to do third?

And then you start fund that with what used to be a house payment, and you're going to be in great shape, man.

I mean, you're really doing beautiful.

I'm proud of you, pretty stinking incredible.

Cantry's with us in Texas.

Hi, Cantry.

How are you?

Yes, sir.

I am doing good.

Good.

How can we help?

Yes, sir.

So I am currently joining the United States Army Special Forces, and if I pass, I will get a $34,000 sign-on bonus.

I'm used to being broke, so I'm not sure exactly what to do with that, but there's a motorcycle that I want to get that is about $20,000.

What do you think I should do with that bonus?

How old are you, sir?

I'm 20.

Thank you for serving your country.

We appreciate you.

Yes, sir.

Thank you.

Well,

number one, if you invest in things that go down in value, you're going to be broke your whole life.

Yes, sir.

Motorcycles go down in value.

I don't mind you getting a bike, but you don't need a $20,000 bike.

What are they paying you?

What are they going to be paying you, not counting the signing bonus?

It's going to be about $2,500 a month.

Good.

But, of course, I will be living on base, so I don't have to pay for living expenses.

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, you need to be very, very careful with what happens to that $2,500 a month, and you need to be very careful with what happens to the $34,000.

I would spend some of it on fun, but I wouldn't spend two-thirds of it on fun.

Yes, sir.

So, no, I wouldn't buy a $20,000 bike.

You're 20 years old.

You make $2,500 a month.

You're brand new in the military.

But if you want to get a $5,000 bike for fun, that'd probably be okay.

Do you have a car?

Yes, sir.

Yes, sir.

Yes, sir.

I have an old one silver auto.

Is it paid for?

Yes, sir.

Also, I do have a loan that I'm currently ⁇ it's a $4,000 loan.

I've already paid about $1,400 of it off.

Good.

Okay.

So shall I take that bonus?

Definitely, definitely wrap that up, too.

Knock that out.

Set you some money aside as an emergency fund.

Get you a toy, but a cheaper one.

Okay.

Yes, sir.

And then let's start talking about investing and doing grown-up stuff with some of this money.

A lot of the guys you're running around with aren't going to be doing that.

Yes, sir.

Okay, because we've worked with the military for 30 years, and when you step off the base and most of the bases in the U.S., down each side of the road for the next two and a half miles is stupid.

Yes, sir.

Every stupid thing a 20-year-old could possibly do is on each side of the road, all the way down through there.

And it's like they set it up to suck all the money out of you guys.

And it's a shame, but it is.

It's like stupid on parade right outside the base gates everywhere you go.

And, you know, you can really screw up here, man.

So

be a grown-up and not a little kid with the way you're looking at this stuff.

And thank you for asking the question.

It's a good, wise question.

Yeah, I mean, this 34 grand is going to disappear quick in a good way if you do the right things with it.

You pay off this loan, that's $2,500.

Maybe put $20,000 aside in your savings and spend $5,000 on a bike and fund a Roth IRA with the rest of it.

It's gone.

And then you can't do something stupid with it because it's gone.

Yeah.

Yeah,

you're going to be able to do a lot of fun stuff with this over time.

But, yeah.

use this to set yourself up with a great foundation as a 20-year-old man.

I wish I was in that shape at 20.

And by the way, the $5,000 bike is probably a four-year-old version of your 20.

That's how much it's going to go down in value.

So maybe

a five.

Maybe a five-year.

You'll find a 24-year-old who made that decision at 20 who's now trying to sell it.

There you go.

He's probably in the military.

Yeah.

That could easily be.

If you're on base and you jump on Facebook, all those people are probably in the military.

So that's how to find the deals right there.

Yeah, that could easily happen.

No doubt about it.

Well, everybody needs insurance, but it can be hard trying to figure out and find the pros

who aren't just looking to make a buck.

And let's get an agent who actually knows their stuff.

With a Ramsey Trusted Insurance Pro, you never have to deal with a sleazy business or slimy salesperson because they're all interviewed.

Our Ramsey Trusted people are vetted.

They're coached to make sure they are market experts.

And we don't deal with anyone who's going to slam you.

It's pretty simple.

They've got your best interest at heart.

Go to ramseysolutions.com slash coverage to find the type of insurance you're looking for and to connect with a Ramsey trusted agent.

Or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or on podcast.

By the way, folks, if you are listening or watching the show, please click the follow button, the share button, share it with somebody, let somebody know we're here.

And of course, you can click the the subscribe button.

All of those things matter.

And leaving that nice five-star review with glowing comments about George is always helpful.

And Dave's good looks.

That helps too.

Yeah, that's what people get.

I didn't ask them to lie.

I just asked them to say good things.

That's all.

Just saying good things.

That's all.

Dave has a face for radio, but we love listening to it.

It's all good.

We can do that.

I can handle that.

We've all done dumb things with money.

I've done them with zeros on the end.

One of the biggest mistakes I see people make with money is not having a plan for it.

You got to have a plan.

You got to be intentional and you need to get a budget.

You have to tell your money where to go so you're not wondering where it went.

Our budgeting app, Every Dollar, helps you do just that.

It's the easiest and fastest way to make a monthly plan for every dollar you've got coming in and going out.

Now's the best time to get started before the ridiculous holiday spending season gets here and sucks you in because you didn't have a plan.

Don't let that happen.

You're done making that mistake.

Go download every dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play today.

Lionel is with us on the stage right here, the debt-free stage in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions.

Where do you live?

I live in Menifee, California.

Cool.

Welcome to Nashville.

And you're here to do a debt-free scream.

How much have you paid off?

$75,117.

I love it.

And how long did that take you, sir?

20 months.

Good for you.

And your range of income during that two years?

$78,000, including my bonus for my base pay, and around $96,000

nine months after that.

Good for you.

What do you do for a living?

I'm a CPA.

Good for you.

Wow, very cool.

How old are you?

25.

What made you get in gear and say, I'm going to get rid of $75,000 20 months ago?

I was actually given a book called Foundations and Personal Finance.

It was gifted to me in my last year of my MBA.

And I started seeing, wow, that's a lot of debt.

That was more than I was expecting.

Because I went straight in, not realizing how much I borrowed.

And I saw I was in a big hole.

So you said, if I follow your plan,

be very aggressive towards the debt, I could pay it off within about, I believe you said a range of 20 to 24 months.

So I said, okay, you know what?

I'll do it.

I'm in a bad hole.

I'll do it.

Wow.

You took Dave up on the challenge.

I did.

And he was right.

Yeah, he was right.

Per usual with Dave.

i love that man congrats so this was our curriculum the kind of the workbook for the curriculum foundations and personal findings it was a green book it was a thin little green book okay very cool went through that very cool and the uh 75 000 was student loan debt all student loans couldn't bankrupt on it okay good for you did you attempt to you sound like you're like i couldn't well i learned in my cpa exams that student loans you can't bankrupt yeah So you're like, well, I guess I got to claw this out myself.

I took it out.

I signed the dotted line.

Let's knock this out.

Oh, yeah.

Wow.

What did you learn during the 20 months while you're working on this?

It's more behavioral than it is actually mathematical.

Because I would take a look at what you would talk about, and

I'm a CPA, so I would just check everything you say.

And I say, is this guy really right?

And

he said through the snowball method, it's only around, you know, at most two months slower.

And when I looked at the avalanche method, it came around that much for me.

So I'm like, wow, this guy actually knows what he's talking about.

So I followed it, and it worked really, really well and it made sense.

Wow.

How's it feel to be free?

You know what?

I have a lot of peace.

Actually,

it's pretty great because now I feel I can actually take risks I couldn't take before.

Like what?

Well, I was really taking a look at my course study work that I can be really aggressive in my investing now.

So I can actually grow my wealth as, you know, within reason

to actually grow my wealth more.

I was learning through education where they said the three biggest risks in stocks was overpaying, having to sell before you have to, and bankruptcy.

And by being debt-free, I'm able to avoid overpaying by, you know, I can invest in mutual funds, you know, using the dollar cost average, or I could do valuation with my background.

Not having to sell before I want to is being debt-free.

That's the only thing I would really

like to sell.

You've reduced your risk.

And therefore, you're less desperate to go do something stupid and miss out on the market returns.

You're staying invested consistently.

Yes, sir.

Way to go, man.

So, if somebody's listening and

they said, okay, I paid off $75,000 in 20 months.

How did he do that?

What would you tell them the key is to getting out of debt?

Well, for me, I was a college student, so I delayed my life heavily.

I moved back home with my parents.

I didn't finance a car.

I didn't go and get a mortgage for a home.

I lived humbly and with my parents, and then I just saved as much as I could.

My goal was to only live on about 25% of my take-home pay, which I achieved, and I put 75K towards my, not 75K, 75%

of my take-home pay towards my loans.

And then I had people who could keep me accountable, such as my brother and my parents.

Wow.

So you're living on less than you make.

Oh, hell yeah.

That was the key.

It was just be super disciplined about that, and you'll be shocked at how quickly you can knock out the debt.

Absolutely.

Which makes the avalanche method obsolete because of how fast you're knocking this out.

And even as a math nerd, you're like, yeah, you could, you might, but the people who actually become debt-free, it's behavior.

It's behavior.

Way to go, man.

That's big.

We're proud of you.

You get the rest of your life now to build wealth, to give, to enjoy.

So you went like one step backward, going, well, I'm missing out right now.

There's probably some FOMO, but then you're catapulting forward exponentially.

Yes.

While your friends are going, dude, how are you investing that much?

I don't have debt.

That's incredible.

Wow.

Well, good for you.

Good for you, man.

That's awesome.

I'm proud of you.

Very cool.

Who was cheering you on as you went?

Oh, definitely my brother, my father, and my mother.

And I could tell that I made them really proud because I did something that they haven't done.

Yeah.

Changing family trips.

Now they're out of debt, you can get out of their basement.

Have you moved out yet?

No, actually,

I'm glad I paid off my debt so quickly because I got laid off.

Wow.

Yeah.

So one month after paying off my debt, being aggressive, they said, yep, we don't see you as being meeting our standards or valuable.

We've got to

let you go.

We're going to go with other people.

But from there, I was just glad I was really aggressive.

And you're working again now?

It's only been about a month or so.

Okay.

So just been

applying aggressively, and I'm not too worried because of my credentials and background.

I'm willing to move if I have to.

Yeah, you're a sharp guy.

Good for you, man.

Well done.

Proud of you, proud of you.

And you brought your brother to stand with you while you do the debt free screen.

Bring him up and introduce him.

Hi, this is my brother Danilo.

He's following my footsteps.

He's doing everything I'm doing, but better.

I love it.

Way to go, Danilo.

Very cool.

Very cool.

All right, Lionel from California.

$75,000 paid off in 20 months, making 78 to 96.

Count it down.

Let's hear a debt-free scream.

Three, two,

one.

On top!

Yeah!

There we go.

Oh, my goodness, That was incredible.

He gave it his all on that one.

That's fun.

Left it all on the dance floor, as they say.

I wish I had that energy.

You know, I missed the 25-year-old energy.

I'd probably hurt my back doing that now.

Yeah, well, I mean, you're staying up all night with newborns.

Yeah, different face.

It affects your energy level, George.

I'm just saying.

What a great story.

Well done, sir.

Well done.

Very, very proud of you.

Good work.

Jasmine's in Texas.

Hi, Jasmine.

How are you?

Hi, Dave.

I'm doing fine.

Good.

How can we help?

So, my husband and I are on baby step two.

We're kind of newer to the Ramsey

teaching method.

And

I was actually recently laid off as of yesterday.

Whoa.

So it was, yeah, it was a little bit of a shock to us.

You didn't have any idea it was coming?

We had some differences, and my

boss said that

I wasn't meeting the expectations that the company was wanting.

So I thought I was fixing a lot of those issues.

And then yesterday they asked me for another meeting after

having a meeting last week, and then they said that we're just going to have to let you go.

So I thought that I had a little bit more time to kind of save up.

And it turns out I just had yesterday.

What did you make?

I made $45,000.

Doing what?

I was an admin assistant for

one of the businesses local into the town that we live in.

Mm-hmm.

Okay, cool.

All right.

And are they giving you severance package?

They are not.

Wow, okay.

Well, how long did you work there?

Um, about a year.

Hmm, okay.

All right, cool.

All right, and what does your husband make?

He makes sixty-five thousand.

Okay.

So you used to have a one-ten income, now you have a 65 income for this moment.

Yes.

Okay.

Well, here's what we have found, and we faced your situation many, many, many times over 30 years.

The first thing is it's really emotional,

and you're semi-kind of angry and scared at the same time, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

The second thing is, if you push through that and go out there right now and go get another job fast,

you'll probably get a better job than you had, paying more than you had.

If you wallow in this for about six weeks, you're going to end up probably getting a worse job than you had.

So, you throw the shoulders back and you brush your teeth and you go to work again fast.

Hang on, we're going to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book, The Proximity Principle, which will help you get that next job quick.

Quick.

You're better than they said you are, girl.

Go get you something better.

Our scripture of the day, Philippians 2, 14 and 15, do everything without grumbling or arguing so that you may become blameless and pure, children of God, without fault, in a warped and crooked generation.

Then you will shine among them like stars in the sky.

Maya Angelou said, if you're always trying to be normal, you will never know how amazing you can be.

Dave's in Maryland.

Hi, Dave.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

What's up?

Hi, Dave.

How are you, sir?

Better than I deserve.

How can I help?

Well, first and foremost, I want to thank you for everything that you've taught me over the years.

You helped me change my life financially.

Never thought that I would be in the position that I am today with money.

And it's because of everything I've learned from you.

Wow.

Well, good for you, man.

I'm proud of you.

Yeah, it's awesome.

So, I just have been struggling for a while now in my current relationship with my girlfriend.

I'm just trying to figure out whether I should stay with her or not.

And

a lot, most of it has to do with our differences financially.

How old are you guys?

So, I'm 48, and she's forty four.

We've been dating for about five years,

and it's kind of at the point to where this is either going to be it or it isn't.

You know?

Yeah, that's a long time.

It's a long time.

So what's the difference in financial values here?

Well,

I'm a small business owner, and I think I do pretty well.

And she's I don't know, I'm more goal-oriented, money-driven, success-driven than she is.

And she really doesn't have a whole lot financially or like possession-wise and things like that.

And sometimes I just feel like I would rather date someone that has a solid career path, you know, makes a good

salary,

someone that's more focused on their career and money.

But on the other hand, we get along.

I mean, she is just, she's an amazing woman.

She's the best girl that I've ever dated in my life.

So are you wanting someone who has the same level of drive you do?

Well, maybe not drive, but just someone that's closer to me financially, you know.

So you feel like there's a disparity between how hard you've worked to build your wealth and success and how little she cares to do that for herself?

Yeah, something like that.

And I guess it's also,

you know, it's, I'm afraid, not afraid, but just being the breadwinner.

And

I don't know.

It's a little difficult to explain, but I just, I wish that she had more money and she had a better job.

You know, that's, that's pretty much.

What is she making?

She makes about $60 a year

for her solid income.

And I'm, well, see, that's the thing, because if we combined our finances, I think we would do okay.

I make between 80 and 90 a year, and she makes about 60.

So we would bring in around 140 combined, you know, and we've been talking about moving in together and things like that.

But, you know, the

money thing just kind of is what's been holding me back.

I don't see any crazy red flags so far.

Is she in crippling debt that she refuses to get out of?

She has spending problems?

No, she.

No, she's very frugal.

She's a single mom.

She raised her son pretty much on her own with help from her family, but she's a single mom.

She's very frugal.

She's independent.

She has no debt.

I mean, she might have like a $1,000 or $2,000 credit card.

She rents her house and her car is paid for.

I mean, you guys are going to build wealth together and you'll accumulate more assets and you'll have a paid-for house together.

And so I wouldn't judge this just based off of, well, she's not coming to the table with enough assets for me to move forward.

You know, I would need a little more ammo than that to end this relationship.

And it's not like you make $400,000 and she makes $30,000.

And so the disparity is not as big as I think you think it is.

It feels more emotional that you're worried you'll resent her and not respect her going down the line.

Yeah,

something like that.

And also,

I struggle a little bit because I grew up in poverty, you know, so

I've had this inborn fear of poverty my entire life.

And that's why I saved so much.

And

I guess sometimes I think, what if the bottom fell out of my business and

I lost my money?

Could I count on her to support us?

I know that doesn't really make sense, but sometimes that's how I think,

you know.

Well, I'm not hearing any huge

fireworks going off in terms of some kind of of bad warning here.

This sounds like a lady who's rolled up her sleeves, raised a kid by herself, and has pulled off life pretty well.

You know, maybe she's not quite kept up with you, but it's not like you make a million dollars a year and she makes 10,000 or something.

I mean, this is not some huge disparity.

It's fairly minor.

But here's the big question is not how much money she has or how much money she makes.

That part,

that shouldn't even really be in the discussion.

What should be in the discussion is do you respect her character her work ethic do you respect her intellect and what she can add to the equation and if you don't respect someone then it's very difficult to love them

and they go together and so long term real lengthy 25 35 year marriage 50 year marriage love type stuff okay if you think she's deficit the whole time that's probably not going to end up being there and so but it's not based on her income and it's not based on that actually the things you her story that you described to me I think she's pretty incredible so

but you know you got it you got to think that

it's not me I'm not marrying her so I got pretty incredible already I already got that covered about 44 years ago so

but

yeah that that's what I'd be looking at

it sound you know probably a good opportunity for some good pre-marriage counseling to sit down with a good marriage counselor and get this stuff out on the table and put those fears out there kind of comb through it a little bit, that kind of thing.

And,

you know, the other thing that might help too, you kind of brought up your poverty past.

Let me send you a copy of Rachel Cruz's book, Know Yourself, Know Your Money.

It talks about your family of origin and how it affects your view on money, her family of origin, how it affects her view on money, even her story, and it affects her view on money and how she got to where she is.

And you guys

give you some jumping off points to understand each other a little bit better before you make the final decision on marriage or on breakup, either one.

And, you know, that's definitely where I would go with that.

So, hey, thanks for the call.

We appreciate you joining us.

Open phones here at 888-825-5225.

So, George, one of the big things we get,

and I think that know yourself, know your money book is helpful for that,

is with couples that are dating trying to figure out if they're a match.

And money is a good thing for that, not because money is important, but because money reveals a lot about your character.

It reveals a lot about your dreams.

It reveals a lot about your fears.

It reveals a lot.

And Jesus said, your treasure is where your heart is.

And so how you handle money, the way you look at money, what you're trying to get from money, all say a lot about you.

And so it's a great way to get to know someone

in a relationship like that is to, you know, to study their money habits.

Because as Dr.

John Deloney says, behavior is a language.

Yeah, and if the values are there, then you can survive it.

You'll have a nerd and a free spirit, a spender and a saver.

But if the values are there

at a foothold and a foundation, you can survive the relationship.

And so that's an important thing to look into is, hey, do I value living a debt-free life?

If not, you're probably going to be broke for a long time.

You know, that's a good point.

Looking back on it, we didn't mean to do this.

We weren't sophisticated enough to do it when we were dating and getting married.

But Sharon and I accidentally got married with having two extremely different families, but both families put a heavy emphasis on hard work and work ethic.

Common sense.

And so neither Sharon nor I have much use for somebody that won't work.

And so, but, and, you know, consequently, we team up on that a lot.

Like, Sheena says, you need to go to work.

And Dave does it.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.

We'll be back with you before you know it.

In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.