You Can’t Afford To Be Careless With Money

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Normal is froke, and common sense is weird.

So, we're here to help you transform your life.

From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studios, this is the Ramsey Show.

I'm Dave Ramsey, Dr.

John Deloney, Ramsey personality, PhD in counseling, and host of the Dr.

John Deloney Show, one of our most popular shows on the Ramsey Network, is my co-host today.

Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Jay is in Massachusetts.

Hi, Jay.

How are you?

Good.

Thank you.

Thanks for taking my call today.

Sure.

What's up?

Well, I'm wondering if I should keep a certain amount of cash at my house.

I had something that came up several months ago.

Somebody asked me to transfer some money.

I opened up my app, my Bank of America app, and everything read zero, all my accounts.

And I'm looking at it, and I'm saying, well, maybe this is just, you know, I can transfer it anyway.

And I tried, and it says insufficient funds.

And so I call them, and I'm on hold for 25 minutes, and then it hangs up on me.

I try calling back, and it's busy like the rest of the world is trying to call them at the same time.

And finally, after about 45 minutes, it

reset itself.

And I'm like, I didn't have any money.

What if I really needed money and I couldn't get access to that?

Well, the problem is not whether you have cash at home.

The problem is you're dealing with the world's worst bank.

Bank of America sucks,

as you have discovered, my friend.

So, yeah, you need to get with a small-town local bank or a good credit union like Fairwinds Credit Union, and then somebody will actually answer the freaking phone on the other end.

But Bank of America is robotic and ridiculous.

No, I wouldn't.

The best thing you can do is stay away from them, like way away.

Now, let's go back, though.

Should you keep cash at home?

You can't keep enough cash at home to sustain life if the entire banking system collapsed.

and you could never access your money again, right?

I mean, so there's not enough cash for that.

Besides that, cash probably won't work if that's happened because there's probably something else going on, too.

You'll probably just need bullets and water and gasoline at that point.

But,

you know, so, I mean, it's like survival stuff, right?

Prepping stuff, that kind of thing.

So, but do you want to keep some cash at home just for access?

Yeah, I mean, what's the biggest possible event that if you couldn't, if you had that happen again,

that you would want to, how much money would you want to lay your hands on?

And can you do that safely in your neighborhood in a nice safe inside your home?

How much?

I don't know, maybe $1,000 to $2,000.

Yeah.

I mean, and so if somebody broke in and stole that, it probably doesn't ruin your life.

Right?

Correct.

Yeah.

And, you know, get you a little safe of some kind.

I've got a little safe.

I thought I'm a redneck.

I've always got a thousand bucks in my pocket.

That's a redneck emergency fund, right?

Ten Uncle Ben's, right?

Just to say I can.

And

so that, you know, I need to replenish those after tips sometimes.

And so I've got a little stack in a little safe.

Nothing dramatic, but

it just keeps

makes it a little harder.

But if somebody stole all of it, it really wouldn't change my life and this wouldn't change your life.

Would I tell tell you to keep, you know, a half million dollars in home?

No.

No, I wouldn't tell you to do that.

Sure.

John, do you have a half million in your safe?

A half million nickels, maybe.

Nickels.

Your grandpa left you.

That's right, yeah.

Now, Jay, I'm with you, man.

I like.

Here's the thing.

Most of the time it's an illusion.

And

here's a better example.

I got a buddy who's a world-renowned nutrition expert.

And I told him I was taking some supplement and that I suddenly felt better.

He laughed and said, well, the science doesn't agree with you, but here's what's more important.

The placebo effect.

The fact that you took this and you feel better is actually a net benefit.

So I'm going to tell you to keep doing it because there's no harm to it.

And so I know that having cash at my house honestly is not going to protect me from the meteorite, but it's going to make me sleep a little bit better.

And that is, in and of itself, is worth having it around, right?

And also,

I like to get the random kid knocking on my door, selling something.

I like to blow their mind every once in a while.

And so, yeah, it's fun to have a little cash around.

You can have a good time with that.

Give them 10,000 or 12,000.

Not that much.

Nickels, yeah.

Here, kid, here's a thousand nickels.

Carry on.

No, but I like having a little cash around, but

I'm with you, Dave.

You can't have, don't have half a million dollars.

And again, if you're,

it depends on the neighborhood, depends on who's in and out of your house.

And I mean, if you've got people coming in there that are helping you or something like that, I don't want to create a temptation for someone and those kinds of things.

So, yeah, yeah, you know,

I would keep it.

It makes me feel better.

Yeah.

That's okay.

And that, but, but I, if you take it too far, then you are, it is an illusion

that it's real, that it really is going to fix everything.

When I went to buy my third deep freezer, my wife's like, hey, you're, you're, you're, you're preppoiding.

Right.

Your deer hunting and your prepping is both out of control.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That that's that's a good thing.

So, yeah, I would keep some around for that reason.

But, yeah, the big thing this whole call points out is you need to change banks.

That's what the whole thing's about, really.

I mean, really, at the end of the day, because honestly, that's the kind of experience people have had with the Wells Fargo's and the 5th 3rds and the

Bank of America's and so forth.

They're just mammoth.

I mean, Wells Fargo had 200,000

employees commit fraud.

Employees.

I mean, to start with, you got 200,000 employees, but you have 200,000 that are, I mean, that's cray cray.

Yeah.

Just how to put your head around that.

And then you think they're going to notice you with your $8,000 in your checking account.

They don't care.

This suddenly went to zero, which is your whole world.

Yeah, and

it doesn't even show up on their seismograph, right?

So, yeah, I know.

I want to deal with.

Enough of a click and mortar that I can get my hands around someone's throat.

I mean, I get somebody on the phone, but yeah.

I want my money.

I'm still old school, man.

I still like to drive down to the bank.

I do.

I do.

And it drives my wife crazy, but I still like to go down and meet with somebody.

And those, those lobbies are getting smaller and smaller, and the number of the staff is getting smaller and smaller.

But

I won't bank with somebody that I can't walk in and shake their hand.

Yeah.

Or that I don't have someone's cell number.

Like, that's just a bit, it's my money.

And for me,

it's how I take care of my kids, man.

And I think we are sometimes pretty absent-minded about it, just throwing it up to

whatever online bank has the biggest, you know, the best deal or whatever.

I don't know.

For me, it's a big deal, and I want to go shake somebody's hand.

Well, it is why that we have partnered up with, and now I've even expanded the partnership with Fairwinds Credit Union.

Yeah, dude.

That's why, because they're just so cool.

I mean, they've even done this thing.

I just love this right here.

So they've got a new debit card out with the Ramsey bundle.

On the front of it, it says, debt is normal, be weird.

Now, that's a piece of plastic that says, debt is normal, be weird.

That's my favorite thing ever, right there.

But, I mean,

they are not there to put everybody in debt.

They're there to just take care of folks.

Take care of folks, yeah.

And that means they're going to answer the phone.

And by and large, credit unions are really a good place to do that.

And by and large, you're small-town, regional, local bank.

That's a good place to park your money and keep your hands on it.

But you need to be, like you said, thoughtful about that.

Not just,

you don't have to be paranoid or weird or conspiracy theory or anything like that.

But that's good.

And I'm a bit of a letter.

I know I'm an old soul, and I like to go shake someone's hand.

And I know that's not a thing anymore.

But it is this idea, just be thoughtful about where you're putting it.

Yeah.

I always remember.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You're about to say something to get yourself in trouble.

Yeah.

No, I just didn't.

America, you just watched Dave Ramsey experience wisdom.

No, that was just editing.

Self-editing.

It was good.

It was really good editing.

Tell me an old man can't learn.

That's awesome.

I just felt it.

I felt it.

It was awesome.

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Mason's in Huntsville, Alabama.

Hi, Mason.

How are you?

Hey, Dave, how are you?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

Hey, so my fiancé and I are getting married in a month, exactly.

So congratulations.

I just have a...

Thank you.

Thank you.

I appreciate it.

We're excited.

I have a few questions regarding just making decisions for our future, making sure that, you know, once we get married, we believe in what you guys teach.

You know, we're a family unit.

We want to make sure that us as husband and wife are good as a family before, you know, we're, you know, prioritizing our, you know, extended family at that point.

So my question would be, I have two pronged questions if we have time.

My first question would be, my parents have a,

basically a mother-in-law suite.

It's a a guest house on their property they live on five acres we have the opportunity to live there it's a one-bedroom one bathroom house for 250 dollars a month um for the foreseeable future really

um so my first prong question would be

what's your opinion on that i mean should we think about doing that saving the money up front we have a um a pretty good income for our our age we're you know both one year out of college and we're 22 and 23 so

that has you know nothing

you know that would be a step up for us only if i think you dropped your phone or something we don't sacrifice our marriage and live too close to my parents i can't wait the last

dropped your phone what happened can you speak directly into it again

yes sir oh there we go i am

yes sir okay

can you can you yeah stay stay with me ask that question again ask the last part of your question what'd you say

um i i just asked your opinion on us living that close to my parents for, you know,

it is a small amount to pay, but we don't want to sacrifice, you know, living too close to my parents and possibly, you know, hindering our marriage because we're so close to them.

It depends on the question beneath the question.

Like it's costing you 250 bucks, but what's the real cost?

If they're going to let you be married and not try to interfere with your life and your mom isn't going to try to

add a daughter to the people she gets to boss around, including you, then no, I would say go get your own place.

If they're going to rent you a place in the back of their five acres and let y'all have your marriage and not require you to come to family dinners every night and all that, and they're cutting you a break to get y'all launched out, that can be a great idea.

Right.

That would be more of the scenario that I think we would

fall under because.

Well, of course you say that.

It's your parents.

What does she say?

Yeah, what's wife say?

Right.

She actually agrees.

We both agree that we would much rather have our own place.

But my parents and, you know, Haley, my fiancé, she gets along with my parents.

And, I mean, they don't have any quarrels or any kind.

And, you know,

we both agree.

Yeah.

I think it's really important that you and your fiancé sit down and say, okay, when we move in,

we're only going to do one meal a week.

And we're only going to do it for six months.

We're only going to do this.

Y'all create some boundaries.

And then be, if you're going to be a grown man, you're getting married, you're getting your own place, sit down with your parents and say, hey, this is important to us that we establish this.

Does this sound cool with y'all?

Right.

It's the unmet expectations, the unmet, I thought you were going to say, well, you guys aren't.

We're doing this for y'all, and why aren't you doing this for us?

That's what causes the problem.

Right.

So, so it's not the proximity, it's not having boundaries.

And the proximity could be no issue if we set those boundaries and are firm with them.

Okay.

Yeah.

And

the other thing is,

if they become a problem, just jet.

Yeah, move.

Right.

Right.

Our other part with that would be, I do have a car payment that I am, you know, heavily thinking about getting out of.

She has a small amount of stealing loans, and like I said, we have a fairly good income for all of you.

What is your girl's income?

You mentioned that twice.

It's about $95,000.

Good, good.

That'll be your combined income.

That would be our combined.

Yes, sir.

And how old are you?

And you're like 24, you said, right?

23, yeah.

No, sir.

I'm 22.

22.

Cool, good for y'all.

Well done.

I do owe 20,000 on my truck.

It's worth about 24,

and it's about $400 a month.

But like I said, you know, I currently live with my parents, and she's currently living in that house because she works closer to the city that I live in.

But we aren't living together.

But I am paying, I'm paying my dad, like I said, a very small amount, $250 a month.

And I can afford the $400.

But, I mean, I've listened to you since I was young, and

it's just been something on my mind to kind of get that out of the way before I get married and not have that payment.

Well, you're not going to make it by next week.

Can you say you're getting married next week?

Next month.

Month.

Yeah.

I don't think you're going to pay out $20,000 by next month, are you?

I wouldn't, but it's the possibility of selling it and then getting a different vehicle.

Yeah, you could do that.

I mean, that's okay.

So if you've been listening a long time, you know our general math rule of thumb is don't own vehicles, things with motors and wheels that add up to more than half your annual income.

And so if her car is $25,000, then you're there.

And I don't think it is.

So, you know, the second thing is, is if you can't be debt-free, everything but the house within two years by keeping the car, then the car is too much.

And neither of those are true in this case.

You could be debt-free in a year, easy.

And your truck is less than half your annual income.

But it wouldn't kill you to sell it and get a $4,000 truck as paid for and y'all start your life fresh and just start stacking cash, man.

Just start stacking cash and start talking about buying a house in a year and a half or two years and see how big a big old pile of money you can make because you're driving a lesser truck.

That won't kill you.

Either one is okay.

Neither one is going to stunt your financial growth substantially.

But,

you know, what would I do if I woke up in your shoes?

I'd probably sell a truck personally, but it's not like you're in the stupid column if you don't.

I did the exact thing when I was a few years into being married.

Sold the truck and had to take a check to the to the title company because I was underwater on it, but I just wanted to be clear of it.

You know, what I would do is this.

I would wait until you've been married three months and then make the decision.

That's a good call.

You don't need to make the decision right now with all this other stuff swimming around.

Let's just get married.

get settled in, get in the rhythm of life, then go, yeah, truck's gone.

Or, no, I'm going to keep it and I'll knock it out.

Either one's fine with me.

And again, you need agreement from your spouse, not your parents, on that.

So,

yeah,

the big issue on your first question, I agree with John, is just

can we actually have and set up an independent household emotionally and relationally with reasonable boundaries being in this apartment?

Some people can.

Truth is, not many.

Not many.

What would you say?

One in 10?

I don't know.

Two in 10, maybe.

Maybe.

I mean, it depends on so many different factors.

I think this is one of those things that rarely is this the solution to everything.

Usually when people say, hey, I need help with working on my communication with my spouse, usually that means

I want them to do what I say, right?

In this case, communication is actually the answer, which is make sure you're communicating with your parents.

Make sure you're communicating with each other.

And you'll set up these regular rhythms where you can look her in the eye and say, Are we still good?

We still good to be here.

And she's like, I got to go.

And you're like, Cool, we're getting out of here because she's the priority, your new wife,

not your mom.

Yeah.

You know, and where are you in the birth order?

And you're the first one to leave home, break your mother's heart, and all that kind of stuff.

All that stuff shows up in it.

But $250 rent, man.

Appreciate it.

We can set you up for a totally different life if y'all can talk here with your

wife.

If you bank it, bank the difference.

Stack the cash, baby.

Stack the cash.

That's pretty sweet.

Yeah, I'm just thinking our kids and the eight grandkids are all within 25 minutes.

And I don't just show up on their doorstep, nor are you mandated to do any family gathering unless you've committed to it.

If you say you're in, you're in.

If you said you're in, we expect you'd be in.

We're ordering food, but don't just go, oh, well, no, I mean, we're freaking cooking for you.

It's not the Ray Romano's family, right?

Exactly.

No popping out here.

That's popping in, popping out stuff.

But other than that, I mean, it's, yeah, we have not had any major issues with that knock-on wood.

There you go.

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Maddie's in Minnesota.

Hi, Maddie.

How are you?

Hi, I'm good.

I'm so happy to be here.

Honored to have you.

How can we help?

Okay, so quick baby step question.

This is kind of flipping the script for us.

We just started binging the show and starting the baby steps.

I want to keep our somewhat new Toyota family minivan and snowball it, but my husband wants to sell it to become debt-free.

We both have ADHD and get really into things, but then fail it continuing like new hobbies, for example.

And I'm scared if we go for a quick six and sell the minivan, we'll be, oh, we're, we'll be like, oh, we're debt-free, we're good to go now.

Whereas if we snowball this, we'll have motivation and experience living like nobody else, plus still have a more long-term car.

Self-awareness is a pretty cool thing.

Way to go.

That's neat.

That's very observant because that's actually a true statement about all of us, that if we get a quick fix,

it doesn't stick as often as if we have to gut it out, right?

Right.

And so, yeah,

that's true of all of us.

So the

van has, how much owed on it?

20.

And how much debt do you guys have, not counting your house?

Just almost owned to student loans, 4,000 left of student loans.

So the van and one student loan?

Yep.

$24,000 and you're debt-free.

Right.

Not counting the house.

Not counting the house, yeah.

Okay.

Less than a year, in theory.

Right.

And And your household income is what?

$160.

Do you hate the van?

No, we love the van.

You should not sell the van.

Keep the van.

Not because of your reasoning, but just the van is a, it's not out of line in your situation.

It just represents a quick fix.

But not because it's a quick, not a ⁇ I wouldn't tell you, I think your reasoning is sound, but I think you ought to just keep this van just because it's a good van and you can pay it off pretty quick.

And because you're gonna have to here's what's gonna happen if you sell the van

what are you gonna be doing saving up money buy another van

right exactly yeah you know so and you make 160 and you'll be able to do that pretty quick and so you're selling the van why so i can buy another one in a year or in eight months or something no that's that's a bad use of all your brain calories no i would just uh

yeah no i would just buckle down pay it off and you will get the benefit of the thing you brought up while you're doing that

Yep.

Yep.

What do y'all do for a living?

What's the 160 coming from?

It's a great income.

Thank you.

You'll be shocked by this.

My husband is a social worker and I'm an artist.

Okay.

All right.

Yeah.

And so

here's what's

back to your original point then that is super valid.

Neither one of you are,

by your careers anyway, are

process people.

okay

you are you deal with a lot of subjective things not objective things

and

in order to win at money you have to develop some processes that you stick to and that was in a sense what you said at the opening of the call you said the exact same thing with a lot of wisdom yep okay and so

um

the

I'll give you an example.

We live in Nashville, and so a lot of the country music people are my friends.

And there's two types of country music people, the ones that are pure artists, and then there are those that are artists and actually have some business acumen.

The pure artists are the ones usually get taken to the cleaners by some crooked manager, and the ones that have a little bit of business acumen become household names for decades.

Oh, thank you.

I guess artist turned business owner is my career.

Oh, okay.

Oh, you're running a business.

Yes.

Yeah.

You can get a kick out of this.

Maybe we sell custom paint by number kits of people's pets.

So customers send us a phone.

Oh, I thought you were like.

I thought you were standing in front of an easel.

Paint by numbers is a process.

This is awesome.

Okay.

You're making my point for me.

Okay.

George Camill has 50 of your products for his little precious dogs.

That's awesome.

Good for you.

Okay.

Now, okay, now I get to.

Y'all need the, have y'all ever done a thing

longer than your marriage?

Have y'all ever stuck to a workout program, a nutrition program,

anything like that longer than your marriage?

For me, being an artist slash business owner, but that's basically it.

Okay.

So that's a good point.

Y'all, I want y'all to practice this

like it's a new muscle.

Okay.

Because you're going to find your marriage is going to get better on the back end of y'all grinding this thing out together.

We're not talking seven years like most people or multiple years like most people who call.

Y'all are talking like a few months.

Y'all make a ton of money.

Y'all can pay this off.

Yeah.

But I want y'all to practice building this muscle.

So I completely made the wrong assumption about you.

Obviously, you are a systems and a process person.

And so the very nature paint by number.

Oh, my gosh.

But also, like, I.

Yeah,

but that's going to lend itself to.

the wisdom of her question, the way she posed her question.

And so, yes, go keep the van, and you guys let that be the first part of your muscle of you working together, working money as a system, as a process.

let's build that muscle, like John's saying.

That's the answer.

Yeah,

it's a good exercise.

Very cool.

Good.

I love it, Maddie.

I love it.

Software people.

It's one of my favorites.

Very well done.

Nicole is in Ohio.

Hi, Nicole.

How are you?

Hello.

I'm good.

Thank you.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

How can I help?

Well, I'm calling because

My husband and I got married a year and a half ago.

It's both of our second marriage.

So I was married for 20 plus years, sharing finances with my former spouse, and he was single for 15 years or divorced for 15 years when we met.

And so this month is our first month having our budget meeting.

And we make,

I wouldn't say significantly different amounts, but enough for it to be a difference.

And so I just wanted to find out if I could get some suggestions on how to go about approaching it so that we can start saving for our dreams and goals and things like that.

Good for you.

Good for you.

Well, the fact that you've been through one that failed and he's been single a long time with no boss in his life except the guy in his mirror makes it harder for the two of you to just go, woohoo, we're both going to throw in and go, right?

If you were 22 and you didn't have any of these scars or any of these ruts where you were stuck in singleness for 15 years or anything like that, you would just jump in and go, woo, let's go.

But you guys, this is going to be hard for y'all.

Teaching an old dog new tricks is tough, right?

Yes, yes.

But it's going to be worth it.

It's going to be worth it.

Jesus said, Your treasure is where your heart is.

When you agree on your spending, you're agreeing on what you value, what you prioritize, you're agreeing on your fears, you're agreeing on your dreams.

It's not the money that matters.

It's that we're agreeing on where the money's going, and that means we're agreeing on what's important

okay and that's a big thing and that's going to be there's going to be some polishing going on there's going to be a the this the a couple these rocks are a little rough and they're not going to be smooth stones easy you're going to have to you're going to have to hold your breath a couple times girl

okay okay yeah because he is the type where he wants to be you know he's a manly man if that makes sense and so i don't want to be i don't know if we should do like percentages or no, no, no, no, no.

You need to do dollars.

Manly men work with their wives all the time.

And manly men put their

childish egos aside for building something that's greater than themselves, which is one plus one equals one when you get married.

Yes, yes.

And you have to have the courage when you're putting your money in the same checking account to say the words, this makes me very scared.

Yeah, the last bozo messed me up, and you're not that bozo, but I still have that scar.

And a manly man wants his partner to feel safe.

Okay.

Okay.

Got it.

But there might be, what you're saying is there might be a hunting rifle in the budget somewhere.

Yes.

Correct.

That's okay.

That can be there.

And there could be a nice pair of shoes in there for you, too.

I don't care.

I just want you to be in agreement on it and not come in and go, look what I did, honey.

No, no, no, no.

We're going to be in agreement.

We're going to decide in ahead of time what we're going to do.

We're going to walk together

because as John said, one plus one equals one.

Actually, it equals probably about five because you get the power of synergy, the marriage advantage, all the data calls it.

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Today's question comes from Molly in Minnesota.

Molly writes, My partner and I bought a house together, but I'm the one who made the down payment.

We can already tell you we got a problem.

He shares the monthly payment expense, but hasn't said anything about paying me back for half the money I put down.

Okay.

Should I ask him to take out a HELOC?

Just, Molly, no, y'all break up.

Just break up and sell the house and move on.

Should I ask him to take out a HELOC and pay it off to pay me back for his

half of the down payment?

You know, what's interesting is, this is the actual first time I've seen the proper use of the word partner.

Oh, like

my

business expenses.

Partner.

Yeah, and he owes me money.

Oh, by the way, I sleep with him.

On the building I bought.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, Molly, y'all have got...

Number one, don't take off a HELOC.

You're like, you're trying to punish him.

Don't do that.

Because

y'all bought a house together, and so you telling him to take out a HELOC that he has to pay back actually puts your house at risk.

Don't do that.

That's silly.

The bigger issue here is y'all have some major fractures in your relationship.

And y'all need to address those on the front end.

You should have addressed them before you entered into a legal binding contract called the purchase of a house together, but y'all are already here.

Yeah, y'all got big issues.

I don't even know where to start with this, Dave, other than just to say, don't do that.

Can I pull the pin and throw the grenade?

Yeah.

Okay, good.

Here we go.

You have two choices to fix this, Molly.

Get married by Saturday

and stop this shacking up crap because you're doing things backwards

or sell the house.

Those are the only two ways you will survive this.

Both ways you have a potential to survive it.

But you're not going to survive it the way you are.

It's not going to work.

Because you entered into a business arrangement with a person you're sleeping with with absolutely no written partnership documents.

And this is going to go sideways and you have no out when it goes sideways.

He could just

leave

and you never see him again.

And you can't even find him to get the house sold because you can't get him to sign the deed.

He could

be in a car wreck.

That happened to one caller.

And she called me up and said, yeah, now I own the house with his mom.

Because, by the way, he doesn't have a will either because you people aren't real good about doing paperwork on stuff, I can tell.

And so he didn't have a will, so guess who his heir is?

It's not his girlfriend that he sleeps with, I can tell you that.

That'd be his mom and dad.

That'd be who gets this stuff if there's no will, the blood heirs.

And so now you are partners in a house with the mother of a guy who didn't repay his portion of the down payment.

Oh, this is not going to go well, Molly.

People never.

Let me help you with this.

The word was never.

I didn't have a caveat.

There was no accept.

It's a complete never.

Capital N-E-V-E-R.

Buy a house with someone you're not married to under any circumstances.

Period.

Everything that can go wrong in this life will go wrong at some time or another, and you are stuck in a house with that guy.

You find out he's doing cocaine.

You find out he's got a secretary that he's more in love with than you.

You find out and you're just stuck, stuck, stuck, stuck, stuck with no legal or business recourse to get your little butt out of this mess.

And you're just beginning to discover how uncomfortable that is when this one little tiny thing about the down payment didn't come up.

Like, you guys shouldn't have talked about that on the front end.

I think they did, and he's just not, quote unquote, paying her back.

Oh, but what happens when he doesn't do what he says he's going to do?

Then he

then he needs to go take out a HALOC.

Yeah.

And

off and pay attention to him.

And put us as a lien on my house.

This is dumber and crud.

Yeah.

So

I'm deadly serious.

There's only two ways to fix this.

I'm going to caveat.

I don't think they should get married.

I think there's too many issues here.

I know, but I'm just saying to protect her.

Oh, okay.

I see what you're saying.

So at least when there's a divorce,

there's a legal mechanism

for getting rid of this stupid house.

But right now, there's no legal mechanism for getting rid of this stupid house except getting rid of this stupid house.

And here's another prediction.

She ain't going to do any of it.

No.

So we're just telling you all these stories so that the rest of y'all don't do what Molly did.

That's the only reason we brought it up because Molly ain't going to do anything except what Molly wants.

I can tell.

I wonder, can I ask you this?

This is just fun.

I wonder if in the state of Minnesota,

I wonder if he would have

eviction rights.

Like if she went and dumped him today and said, get out of this house.

Who gets the house?

Who gets the house?

Who has the principal dog?

Who has to say?

Who gets to stay?

And then I got to give you 30 days eviction.

And then you got to get 30 days and it's going to go to court.

And I got squatters right.

Like, this could get really messy really quick

like in a spray spray can lines down the middle of the hallway this is my half this is your half my dishes that's my half the sink no water on my side of the sink that's your tabasco yeah oh my god yeah this what a zoo so bad y'all this is people acting like they're married when they're not married and the whole system in the united states is not set up for you

sorry darling The English law does not, English law is what we're modeled after and it doesn't set up with the exception of Louisiana, which is French law and it's not set up for it either.

So just to help y'all,

the way this stuff is laid out, you're screwed in these messes.

Oh my gosh.

All right.

Carmen's in Colorado.

Hi, Carmen.

What's up?

Hi, how are you guys?

Better than we deserve.

How can we help?

Thanks for answering my call.

I'm calling in today because my husband and I need your help on what to do to get out of debt and start saving for a house.

My husband is 22 years old.

I'm 24, and we have a one-year-old son.

My husband is in his second year of electrician apprenticing through a union and I just went back to work in July as a dental assistant.

So my husband gets paid weekly.

His gross pay before taxes on a check is about $900, but after taxes is like $696.

And then so for the whole month, it's about $2,784.

I get paid bi-weekly.

My pay for the month is about $1,500, $1,800 a month.

My husband pays all the bills, which altogether our bills are about $2,753.

So with his check, as you can tell, we're left with maybe a few dollars after his check, after the bills.

But including inside the bills, we have tithing, which is $240.

So every week we put in $60 from his check to tithe.

I pay my car payment and then the groceries and gas.

That adds up to the car.

How much do you owe on your car, honey?

So here's the stupid thing that we just did.

I had a 2021 Jeep Compass.

It was about $22,000 that I owed on it.

And the car was getting too small.

We couldn't fit the baby's car seat in there.

How much do you owe on your car, honey?

$44,000 now.

You have to sell your car.

That car is going to bankrupt you.

That car is in the land of crazy.

If you look up crazy in the dictionary, you're going to see a picture of this car.

Yeah, okay.

That's what me and my husband have been talking about too, about selling his truck on the car.

You need to get a $4,000 car that you pay cash for.

Okay.

So that's one thing, too.

We only have $1,000 in our emergency fund.

Good.

That's a good start.

And

you know your numbers.

So even though he's been paying the bills, it sounds like y'all are working on this together.

That's That's really good news.

You're doing a good job with that.

Yeah, but the car is like wee over in Crazy Land.

Are you going to sell it or not?

Yeah.

Well, you said to sell it.

I know.

I said to sell it.

I asked if you were going to do it.

Yes.

Okay, good.

This weekend.

Yes.

This weekend.

Put a sale sign on it.

Let's go.

Okay.

The car owns y'all.

You don't own it.

Yes.

And then that's going to free up so much.

And then you guys keep doing your every dollar budget.

We're going to give you a free year for every dollar.

And it's going to give you a step-by-step thing of exactly what to do after you get out from under this car payment and how you can walk your way into some savings out of debt and start talking about building the life.

Because right now y'all don't make much money, but you're just getting started and you'll get there.

And he'll be making more money as he gets out of the apprenticeship.

Right now he's starving to death though.

Y'all will get there, but this car is way off the chain.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studios.

Dr.

John Deloney, PhD in counseling, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host.

I'm Dave Ramsey.

Brittany is in Indiana.

Hi, Brittany.

How are you?

Hi, great.

Thanks for taking my call.

Sure.

How can we help?

I am calling.

We paid off our house in 2023.

Awesome.

And we, yeah, we have no debt.

We are

following your baby steps and your advice as much as we can.

The reason I'm calling is we don't feel the sense of freedom, I guess, that we kind of expected or wanted because we're currently saving for a big home renovation.

Our house was built in the 70s and has a lot of the original exterior components, and a lot of them are

in need of being replaced.

quickly going from a cosmetic need to those windows need replaced type thing

And we're still trying to balance the enjoying freedom with our house paid off with staying intense so that we can get that reno done and then really feel free.

And I guess we were just, I was just looking for some words of wisdom or perspective on how to stay patient while you're saving for a big project like that.

Well, it is devastating that no matter what stage of money you get at, you find out it's finite.

Right.

It's just a pain in the butt.

It doesn't matter what you're driving, that there's always another one to drive.

It doesn't matter where you live, there's always another one to live.

And you never really arrive at that.

Contentment is kind of a bully in the schoolyard.

It says, step across this line and I'll punch you.

You step across the line, it backs up and draws another line.

You know, it's a moving target, this contentment thing.

And that's, you know, I've run into it too.

I completely relate to the feeling that you have.

It's like you kind of thought when you got here, it was going to be easy.

You wouldn't have to worry about it anymore.

You could just do whatever you want, right?

Yeah.

It's not, you intellectually didn't think it was going to be unlimited, but emotionally you felt like you were going to feel like you were unlimited.

Like, I'm a millionaire.

I don't have to budget anymore.

What was that?

It's like, I'm a millionaire.

I shouldn't have to budget anymore, right?

Well, we do still budget.

I mean, and I know that.

No, I know you do.

I'm just talking about

the feeling, the emotion.

It's annoying.

Yeah, it is annoying.

And it's also

hard because we thought, well, we would be able to use more of our

so-called extra money for things like bigger, nicer vacations with the kids and things like that.

But I feel like

you're constantly going to be able to do that.

And hey, I want to call out what Dave just said.

Here's my promise to you.

The day these renovations are over,

if you and your husband don't get together ASAP and change

how you experience the world, you're going to find yourself in yet another self-created prison.

Because y'all haven't made the switch to we are choosing to live in an old house, which means we are choosing to update this stuff.

Some stuff has to be done, some stuff doesn't, but we're going to.

These are all choices.

You're not owned by it.

Right.

Yeah, there's two ways to fix an old house: fix it or move.

Right.

If we were to move, I even, I have considered that thought.

Maybe we're, maybe we would be better off moving, but we, there's repairs that would have to be made regardless.

So it's, we're kind of yeah, but the point is that

the point is you're choosing.

You're choosing it.

You're free.

Thank God

you don't have this window project and a house payment.

Yeah.

You know?

And two car payments and student loans.

Yeah.

You'd be what's known as up a creek, right?

No paddle.

Yeah, all that, right?

It's the whole thing.

I mean, so you're, you really are, you know, you kind of got to look back in your view mirror and go, thank God.

You know, I had a heat and air system go out on one of our properties the other day, and it was like $10,000 or something we had to spend.

And I went, thank God, that's an inconvenience.

Yeah, it's annoying.

It's annoying versus a freaking catastrophe.

Yeah.

You know, which is what it used to be.

Everything was a catastrophe.

When you're like, when you're broke, your life looks like a country song.

You know, keep the dog out of the street.

It'll get hit.

I mean, come on.

Everything that'll go on can go wrong.

And so, yeah,

the difference is something's annoying and has a

I kind of feel cheated versus a dad gum drama.

It's an emergency.

It's that old C.S.

Lewis quote that hell is locked on the inside.

Like y'all have created yet another prison and then yet another prison and yet it's just going to be a pattern until y'all decide to exhale and say, we are free.

We're choosing to live in this house.

We're choosing to go through these renovations.

And this is going to be a pain in the butt.

And we've done it before.

We can do it again.

And you laugh and you kind of get that snarl and then you go get it it versus this is happening to us we are stuck here this it's a victim mindset it's it's a scarcity mindset versus a no we can do whatever we want and we're making this choice right here It's just a totally different reason.

You're in control.

You're making a choice.

You chose to do the windows and delay the travel.

And that's not a bad choice.

No, it's a great choice.

It's an annoying choice.

It's probably the right choice, even if you turn around and sell the house.

Like you said, we got to fix it up to sell it, even if we're going to do that.

That's okay, too.

That's all a good choice.

The great news is you have choices.

That's it.

For two reasons.

You got choices.

Two reasons.

One is you put yourself in this position.

And two is God chose for you to be born in America where you still have choices as opposed to someone just dictating to you what you're going to do.

So, yeah, that's the cool thing.

And I got to tell y'all,

one of the things that I distinctly remember this, it's a dumb metaphor.

But it actually happened because I'm the spender, okay, in my house.

Sharon's the natural saver.

I'm the natural spender.

And so I'm reading these scriptures and it says, godliness with contentment

is great gain.

And so I go down the rabbit hole.

I start studying contentment because I'm like, where do you find this?

I want to buy a box of it.

You know, I need some of this because I've been go get it, go get it, go get it, acquisition, acquisition, acquisition, my whole young life in particular, in my 20s, right?

So it's Jaguars and Rolexes, and I'm going to acquire.

I'll be happy when.

I'll be happy when.

I'll be happy when.

I'll be happy when.

And, you know, the bully in the schoolyard backs up, draws a new line, says, come on.

And you come on.

He said, do it again.

Do it again.

You never really get to hit him in the nose.

You never do.

And so,

but after we went broke,

I went to Costco, where you can buy 25 pounds of peanut butter.

And you can buy 73 of anything you need one of.

And they check your little receipt when you're going out because it's federal law.

You have to spend $200 in there.

If you don't spend it, they make you go back and finish, right?

And so that's why they check the receipt.

And I distinctly remember, I can take you to the Costco.

I had a spiritual experience.

I walked out of Costco

buying nothing.

It was like a breakthrough.

I think there's a statue of you in a Costco.

I think there's a breakthrough.

You know, it was like, oh, you know, it was like, I don't have to have any of this today.

And it was like something snapped.

It was real.

Yeah.

It was real.

And godliness with contentment is a great gain.

And I became convinced that contentment might be the most powerful financial principle.

If you don't have contentment, you get into debt.

If you do have contentment, you can save.

If you don't have contentment, you're always at odds with your spouse about money.

If you do have contentment, the two of you are just trying to figure out how much you can give away.

It's a breakthrough.

It's a a financial breakthrough.

That's true freedom.

Like none of the other financial principles we teach.

It's true freedom.

It's very powerful.

It's a great call.

I appreciate you calling so much.

I completely relate to you, Brittany.

I understand your feeling.

It's a very human feeling.

It's just,

it's a journey you're on, and you'll get there.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens.

One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

You know, we hear it all the time.

A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

Yeah, and that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

Yeah, that's right.

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Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them.

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So many years ago, we came up with this great idea.

There were these new things on your phones called an app,

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over last decade or so, the world's best budgeting app, without a doubt.

It's called Every Dollar, because Every Dollar has an assignment by you.

You assign every one of your dollars a place to go, give it a name.

Well, what has ended up happening then is that over the last three or four years, we've invested a bazillion dollars and

programming and in brilliant digital minds inside this building that do things I can't even spell, and

have managed to integrate into it the whole Ramsey plan, the Ramsey way.

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What do I do there?

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Jake is with us in Cleveland, Ohio.

Hi, Jake.

How are you?

Good, guys.

How are you doing?

Better than I deserve.

How can I help?

So me and my wife were 24, fresh out of college a few years ago.

So we decided to build a home, our forever home.

And the cost kind of got out of control.

Our parents stepped in.

My parents stepped in.

Me and my wife have been blessed to have our parents by our side.

They actually followed your financial piece back in 2000.

There's a different story behind that, but they're very, they've accumulated some wealth over the years.

They've handed us over a lump sum of money to help us build this house.

And whatever is left over, we will pay back in a mortgage payment to them.

Me and my wife make about $130,000 a year

before taxes with a commission bonus for myself at the end of the year.

So my question is, and we do have a good amount of savings from the past years of working, about $120,000 in savings.

I'm sorry, my question.

If you have $120,000 in savings, why the flip did your parents have to give you money?

They have been working so hard their whole life to set their kids up.

And so they want to help every single one of their kids out.

I'm one of three brothers.

Yeah, but you made it.

Sound like you got in trouble and they bailed you out.

Oh, no.

No, no, sir.

No, no, no.

So, what happened with the house?

You bought too much house?

What's the deal with the house?

Yeah, so we're building.

Oh, you're still building?

Yeah, we're still building.

We're in the foundation phase right now.

Oh, you're just started building.

Yes, so the deal was with them:

we can collaborate with them, they can help out.

I mean, we have a really good relationship with our parents.

I work for them, actually.

And

this is what they wanted to do for us.

And so we kindly accepted it.

And any cost after their initial lump sum that they handed over, we would pay back to them in a mortgage.

And so, I guess my question is: me and my wife are still young, we're 24, we're not thinking my kids right now.

Do we

give up a lot of that savings that we have straight back to them at the beginning, or do we have some of that, keep most of it, and travel and have fun in our early 20s?

So, do I borrow money from my parents when I'm newly married to travel?

That's in essence

where this lands.

When I say it that way, does it sound as crazy to you as it does to me?

Yeah, a little bit.

Okay.

Yeah.

No.

You did grown-up stuff and went and bought a house at 24 years old, pay for your stinking house, and then start talking about traveling.

Do you have a good relationship with your parents?

Very good.

The surest way to blow it up is to have money in between you.

Okay.

And I know that's a weird, hard thing to say at 24, especially when got two people who are like, no, it's no big deal, it's no big deal.

Just take it from two older guys.

Clear the money between your relationships so that it can stay as good as it is right now.

I think I heard a two-stage deal here.

Like, they gave you a gift of a certain amount, and that even wasn't enough.

And so then they loaned you more.

Is that right?

Yes, they loaned us the full amount of whatever it costs for the house we're paying for in cash to build.

So they're not taking loan out from any

completely debt-free since 2008.

I know, but you now owe them

a mortgage payment.

Okay, so that part where they went through Financial Peace University, they flunked the class because we tell you not to do that ever.

Don't ever loan your children money.

Oh, my God.

Because it puts a wedge between the relationships.

Yeah, the borrower is slave to the lender.

Now you have to eat dinner.

Hey, eat Thanksgiving dinner with your master.

Yeah.

Okay.

That's going to be painful for your wife.

Not going to bother you much because it's your parents, but it's going to be painful for your wife.

Understood.

So, how much money do you owe your parents that you have to pay the mortgage on?

Probably going to be around $200,000 to $250,000.

Okay.

And how much of a gift did they give you?

About 50% of the total cost to build, so about $200,000 to $250,000.

So you're 24 years old, you make $130,000, and you got a $450,000 house?

Yes.

Dang, Gina.

Okay.

It's a lot of house, dude.

It's a lot of house.

All right.

Well, for sure, the answer to your question is no, you don't need to go on vacation.

Yes, you need to

take the $130,000, but I'm even going to go a step further.

I'm going to put the $130,000 with your mom and dad to limit the size of the mortgage, and then I'm going to go get a commercial mortgage, not from your parents.

Okay.

Because I don't want this mortgage.

I don't want you paying payments to your parents for any amount of money, for any amount of interest.

I don't think you're going to do that because I think you guys have worked out this detailed thing in all of your heads that this all works out to the point that you're ready to go to Europe instead of paying back.

Here's what I would see.

I can see myself working really hard so that I can bulldoze a path for my son and his new wife.

I get that.

But if my son was to hand me a check for $130,000 and say, Dad, I've got this money saved up.

This is the part of the mortgage.

And then I want you to see here, I'm giving you the rest of it.

I took out a commercial loan because I want to just stay your son.

I don't want to stay one of your, like, I don't want, I don't want you to be my banker.

I would be so proud.

And in a way, you're kind of not showing him up, but you're kind of saying, I'm taking this by, I'm taking the reins here.

It would show a level of wisdom and maturity.

I'm trying to give him as much grace as I can, Dad, because the arrangement he's put you in is madness.

It just ends in somebody wanting you to do something for Christmas, and your wife doesn't want to.

And it's like, well, after all, we've just a recipe for disaster.

But man, if you went and did what Dave just said, go get a commercial loan for the rest of it.

And by the way, that's a tiny mortgage.

It's $120,000 mortgage.

It's a tiny, tiny, tiny mortgage.

Just go do that, man.

You'll have that paid off in no time with as much money as y'all make.

If you don't go on trips.

Yeah, if you don't go to Europe.

And by the way,

I don't know.

Dave,

trips are more fun when I'm older now.

I don't know why.

They just are.

Well, they're more fun because they don't follow you home.

But in essence, that's what this ends up being.

I don't have to do that.

We increase the amount we borrow from mom and dad by the amount that we spend on the trips.

And so it's black borrowing on the trip, borrowing from mom and dad to go on a trip.

And obviously, that would be ludicrous.

So, moms and dads, those of you that graduated from Financial Peace University with a better grade than that mom and dad got,

which was an F,

Here's the rule, okay?

If you want to give your children some money and they pay cash for a house and part of the bargain is they never borrow money again because you want your family tree to be completely changed, great.

Never make your child, your grown child, your slave.

You change your relationship with your daughter-in-law, your son-in-law.

You change the relationship in how you interact with each other.

It's just you're adding layers to it that you are unintended, but they're very real.

And no one is the exception.

Even a nice master is a master.

As a mom, I plan for everything.

I plan the budgets, snacks, lunches, backup outfits in the car for the unexpected.

I mean, everything.

Because moms handle a million details every day.

So don't skip one of the biggest ones.

What happens to your family if you're not there tomorrow?

You guys, a lot of people put off making a will because it can feel a little scary.

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Tim is in Ohio.

Hey, Tim, what's up?

It's Ken.

K-E-N.

Oh, sorry.

Hey, Kelly.

It's Ken.

K-E-N.

Okay.

I was just reading my screen.

Pardon me.

How can I help?

That's no problem.

Yes, Dave.

So

a year and a half ago, I got into your program and stuff.

And let me thank you from the bottom of my heart because that completely changed everything for me.

And

with,

I'm married now, and my wife is 62, I am 55,

and

I work for the state, and I have OPERS,

and we have to, we don't have a choice, we have to put in 10%

of our gross income into that.

And then the state also matches that 10% and adds 4%.

My wife's 401k,

they do know, do not have any company match.

Her late husband only would allow her 5% to 6%

and not aggressive at all.

So there's not much in there, but we currently have 27,500 in debt.

There's 44,000 in that account, and then we have our house.

And

crunching the numbers and looking at things, if we take the 27,500 out of there and just wipe out that debts, that allows us to pay the house off in under five years and 18 months more of investing at $3,000 a month.

Does that make sense to you?

She's 62, 6'2?

How old is she?

She's 62.

So yes, we understand we will be on the hook for ta taxes, but we are

the 44,000.

It's going to take the whole 44,000 to clear 27.

Okay.

So, or close.

I mean,

give or take a thousand bucks or two, but it's not, I mean, you're going to pay taxes on $44,000.

It's going to be at least $10,000, right?

Hello?

We would be in the 12% tax bracket.

Why, y'all don't work?

Yes, we work.

How are you in a 12% tax bracket?

Because of filing jointly, and you take the first 10% off of that, and then we go into the, the rest of it goes into the 12% then.

What's your household income?

About $75,000 a year.

Okay.

I don't think you're doing that right, but I'm not a tax pro, and I can't do it in front of ⁇ I can't do it off the top of my head.

Anyway, you're going to have taxes.

It's going to eat up a lot of the $40,000.

And so you're basically going to cash out her retirement at 62 years old, pay the taxes, no penalties, and pay off her debt.

Yes, I would do that.

But make sure you set this money aside for tax.

Okay.

And have somebody else calculate it other than you and me, because neither one of us are very good at it, I don't think.

Yeah, I don't think you're calculating that right.

But anyway,

but I think the either way, you're going to use up most of it either way.

Tell me the math behind that, Dave.

Like somebody 62, you're going to go ahead and pull it.

it.

Well, I mean, if you've got retirement and he's got a bunch and they're going to,

you know, we don't tell people to cash out their retirement and pay before they're retired.

But at 62, you're retirement age.

And so you can pull it without any penalties.

And I don't want to pay that 10% penalty, but you're going to pay your taxes on it.

But, you know, like if we have somebody call in, they owe $300,000 on their house and they've got $900,000 in their 401k, I'll pay off the house out of that.

If they're 62 or older.

Yeah, because no penalty on it, pay off their house.

That's what you saved it up for.

And in this case, it's just a blended family, a second marriage thing, and it's just a weird little account.

It's not a big account.

But it doesn't really change.

The principle is, yes, if you have enough in retirement and you can clear all your debts

and pay your taxes that you create by doing that, I would do that as long as you've got some left over.

And, of course, they've got all of his, and they're both continuing to work, and they're going to put $3,000 a month back into the program.

So that's where we're going.

Yeah, that's no different than, yeah, very, very good.

Christine's in Virginia.

Hi, Christine.

How are you?

Hey, I'm doing well, Dave.

Thank you so much for taking my call.

Sure.

How can we help?

I recently discovered you about a month ago, and I'm hooked now on your little cult, which I'm happy to be.

Yes, we're going to send you some, we're going to send you some Kool-Aid here in the mail.

Awesome.

My question is: my husband and I are in about $87,000 of debt.

I'm 60.

He's 62.

I want to start your program desperately.

We both do.

But my concern is that of that debt, $68,000 is in a debt settlement program.

Doesn't mean you can't pay it off.

Really?

Yeah.

I thought, well, aren't I obligated to them for the 55 months I signed up for?

Nope.

You've already paid them.

They got all their money up front.

The first handful of payments you paid them paid them.

None of your payments, the first handful, went to the debt.

It went to them.

And then what they've done is destroyed your credit and have put you in default on everything and then set up payment plans with everybody.

But

I would do it as a lump sum.

I'd probably do it as a lump sum.

What kind of debt?

How much of the 87 is in that?

68.

Oh, yeah, you said that.

Okay, all right.

And what's your household income?

We make about $100,000 together.

Okay.

Well, you may find that it's easier to just lump sum it and call them up and go, okay, help me settle lump sums on this rather than payments.

Ask the debt settlement company to do that.

How many different debts are in the 68?

Let's see.

I was just looking at it.

My problem with them is that they're not doing very well.

because we've had them actually

no way i'm sorry oh i i was hooked i was hooked lying and sinker i will not lie

um

it's been since january how many days they've only settled two accounts probably

ten

okay all right and they've settled two of them okay well what i would do is call them up and say hey i'm going to start advancing some cash towards this and you're going to get more aggressive because i'm going to you're going to feel my foot on your butt

i don't have an ex any extra cash to send them though no you do if you're gonna get out of debt

you make a hundred thousand

something's gonna change you're gonna get on beans and rice rice and beans we're not going out to eat you're not gonna see the inside of restaurants unless we're working there we're not going on vacation we're not spending any money on anything because we're 60 years old and deeply in debt and we got to get this crap cleaned up no christmas presents yeah

We're sending cards this year instead of presents for everybody.

Yeah.

Everybody, here we go.

The worm has turned.

Times have changed.

It's about to change, baby.

I mean,

you got to get after it.

And because you don't want to be 70 and be looking at the, you know, half this debt still laying there because you've been toying around with it.

So, but go ahead and clear the other portion first.

And

then when you get to the debt settlement 68, then start being on the phone with them going, okay, I need to settle one more of these.

Let's get some aggression going here.

And it doesn't take five years, then you can work through it in in whatever period of time you work through 87 making 100 which hopefully would be working extra selling stuff could be as early as two years probably as a little more than two years to get through that but you're gonna have to be living on nothing

nothing nothing nothing honey blankets blankets sweaters in the house all of them that whole thing turn the thermostat turn the thermal i mean but like it's a it's a mind shift man you got you gotta have to go

and here's the thing is as you know, you don't have a lot of time to do this.

It's not like you got 40 years to figure this out.

You got 40 months to figure this out.

So you need to get with it.

And you can do it.

You can absolutely do it.

But the debt settlement companies, boys and girls, the way they work is

they collect payments from you for five years.

The first set of payments they collect from you, they put 100% of it in their pocket while letting all of your credit cards and other stuff go into default.

Then they go to the creditors and say, oh, these are in default.

What will you take as settlement?

And so even if you weren't in default, they put you there.

That's their process.

That's how they do it.

And that's why we tell you not to do that stuff.

If a washed up actor between a snuggie ad and a gold ad on cable TV is pitching you something financial, stay away from it.

Well, it happens occasionally.

We've got one of our friends stopped in here.

The one and only Tim Tebow.

Welcome, my friend.

Thank you, guys.

So good to see y'all.

Thanks for having me.

Good to see you again.

So, we were just talking Papa stuff before you, as you walked in.

Got a new baby?

We do.

Almost three months old.

It's crazy.

Now I feel like I'm actually getting old.

A little gray in the beard there.

You got to be a little little gray in the beard.

My wife.

You look like me before you remember, though.

But it has just been such a crazy blessing.

And, you know, a lot of people ask, like, you know, being a dad, is it a different kind of love than you knew?

And I thought a lot about it.

And I don't know because the moment Demi said she was pregnant, I think I already felt it.

But I'll tell you, what hits you is the responsibility.

Like when we get home, it was like, oh, we got to change this cabinet.

We've got to change this countertop.

She could get injured on.

She could do this.

You're like, you're trying to think 10 steps ahead and five years ahead.

And that level of responsibility is surreal.

I always tell somebody it's like somebody just adds two more plates on the squat rack and just that

it sits under you and you're like, oh, this is heavy, right?

It is.

So the Tim Tebow is a two-time national champion, Heisman trophy winner, first-round NFL draft pick, speaker, college football analyst, five times New York Times best-selling author.

I think we've been on here four of those times, if I remember.

So I'll take credit for a little of that.

He's the founder and the leader of the Tim Thibault Foundation.

He and I have done some wonderful ministry work together in and around the sex trafficking world,

preventing that, obviously.

Anti-sex.

Anti-sex.

Yeah, I mean, we've done, we both share a love of several people that are

in that space, and your team is in that space big time.

And so we've had a lot of different things we've done together.

New book out.

Look again, recognize your worth, renew your hope, run with confidence.

Now I do know you well enough to know the truth is that you don't just sit down and randomly go, oh, time to do a book.

That something had to be burning and churning inside of you that you couldn't not say.

And so where's that come from on this one?

It was really inspired several years ago, and I felt like I put it off longer than I was called to.

And

it was really first inspired at a night to shine.

It's our worldwide celebration for individuals with special needs.

And we were at one of the night to shines in Arizona and it was during COVID.

And so they're driving through the drive-through and on the red carpet.

And we're celebrating all of these cars that are coming through.

And a lot of them are Corvettes.

And so all the kings and queens are in the back and cheering for everyone as this massive crowd is cheering for everybody.

And there's a young girl in a red Corvette as it drives around, and she is just beaming.

The joy in her life and in her heart, and just oozing out of her is so contagious.

And as the Corvette pulls by, and I see the back of it, and I didn't even know our teams and partnerships with the churches were even making these bumper stickers, but I saw the bumper sticker, and on the back, it said royalty on board.

And I just thought, man,

yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's somebody's daughter, right?

It is.

It's royalty on board.

And so it really led us down this track of really studying what does it mean to be made in the image of God?

And so we talked to so many incredible scholars over the last few years and diving in.

A lot of people talk about the image of God as rational, relational, functional, right?

We're a rational being, so logic and thought and all this that God's given us are relational, meant for relationship with each other and for God are functional to rule and reign.

And I think all of those are part of it.

But I think it's a step further and a step that's even more important.

And that's when you really look at the image of blank that was used over history, especially in the ancient Near East.

It was always a term used for kings or for monarchs.

So Assyrian king, you know, was made in the image of Belarus, Egyptian king, made in the image of Ra, gods that they believed in.

And so when they would have heard that in the ancient Near East that we were made in God's image, what it would have come across to them is that it's a royal worth statement.

And we have forgotten that in our society, that when we're made in the image of God, it's not just what we do, but it's who we are.

It's the worth statement that God has given us.

It's a royal worth statement that He loved us so much, He would create us in His image.

And we have just forgotten that.

And if you look at what's happening in our societies and around the world, if you look at the boys and girls that are being exploited or trafficked or the loneliness or the suicides or all of this,

it's a royal worth statement.

We've forgotten the worth of humanity.

We've forgotten the value of every single life.

And I really, my heart and prayer for this book is that part of it would be one of the most encouraging things that someone would ever read.

But the second part will also be one of the most challenging things that hopefully, prayerfully, someone will ever read.

Yeah, so as you're talking, I'm thinking, A, the importance of hearing this.

But that also means I've got a responsibility to every single person in my neighborhood.

Everyone you ever meet.

Right.

It's made in God's image.

And the encouraging part is we share so much biblical truth that should be encouraging to people.

Man, I'm made in God's image.

It's a value statement for me.

It's a love for me, but it also is why we argued and challenged and thought over and over about the title, why it's so important to look again, is to look again at who God made me to be.

But then it also applies to every single person that I see, ever of all time.

Check that bumper sticker

and your enemies.

Every one of them.

Royalty on board.

It's royalty on board.

Man.

That's a profound call for this moment.

I think that you just couldn't have written it or thought it

for what's taking place in our society.

For the divisiveness, for the demeaning and the diminishing of people that we disagree with, for the lack of value because

an argument or because of disagreement or because of a political stance or because of a background.

And we diminish people.

And instead of having a disagreement, but still valuing people, you can do both.

And as a society, we have to do a better job of valuing who God made us to be, but then also valuing everybody else.

Look again.

You'll see the bumper sticker if you look again.

Recognize your worth.

Renew your hope.

Run with confidence.

It's a brand new New York Times bestseller.

I'll go ahead and predict that

from our friend Tim Tebow.

Man,

dude, I'm convicted sitting here, man.

The thing keeps running through my head is: I remember even teaching teens years ago, you're a king's kid.

Yeah, you're a king's kid.

You're a king's kid.

I remember a pastor teaching this one time.

He said, you know, in the Old Testament, in Genesis, it says, God created the heavens, earth, and the stars also.

That's the mention of the stars.

And then he he spends 35 chapters on Joseph.

You know, I mean, it's like,

what's more valuable to God?

That individual.

Not even close.

No, it's not even the individual and the stars also.

That's right.

It's almost an afterthought.

That's right.

There's only one thing that Jesus, as the Son of God, came to die for.

People.

And yet we put in place of people or above people,

our cars or our watches or our praise or promotion or recognition, all of these things.

And when you do that, what you are are doing, what's implied is how diminished people are, right?

That they come after all of those things.

And this is a challenge that you are more important than all of those things, but so is every person you see.

And especially when you see people that are suffering.

And today there are so many people that are suffering.

And how could we know the worth that God has put on humanity and not do something, especially when we know they're suffering?

So bring it down for the person who's the truck driver or the single mom who's balancing two kids, listening to the Ramsey show trying to figure out a payer debts off.

What is a thing they can do in their community?

Well,

like we can start foundations and big stuff, but what's something that a person who is just grinding it out right now in their neighborhood.

Don't look past, don't look away.

Refuse to look away.

Refuse to look away

on that person that you're when you're pushing your kids in their stroller and you want to ignore them.

Say hi.

Say hi.

Value them.

Value people.

If you're the truck driver,

what's taking place?

Well, how many kids are being exploited on that, right?

Be aware of it.

Talk to your teams, talk to your supervisors, understand the problems that are taking place and act upon them.

And people say, well, what can I do in the macro?

Sometimes it's hard to step into some of these fights because they're big, they're very hard, they're very difficult, daunting, and overwhelming.

But all of us see people almost on a daily basis.

Value them, love them, show them the worth because how do we know their worth?

Well, it starts in Genesis that they're made in God's image, but then is brought full circle when Jesus came and died on the cross for them.

And how do we know the value and worth of somebody?

By what someone is willing to pay for them.

And Jesus Christ, who has infinite value and worth, was willing to give his life in exchange for you and me and every person we ever see.

That's how we should see them.

And right now we see them through faulty lenses.

Look again.

Hey guys, George Camel here.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio.

Dr.

John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, PhD in Counseling, is my co-host today.

Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Kim is in South Dakota.

Hi, Kim.

How are you?

I'm great.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

Okay, so

we

lived at Free, had purchased two used cars.

We followed your program since we had our daughter 20-something years ago and have lived that way, but ran into a little snaggle when we were part of a natural disaster.

And we had purchased homeowners insurance with State Farm.

It had a really high deductible because our opinion was we had enough money saved that if something happened, we would pay for it ourselves and not pay a huge premium.

So that's how we lived our lives.

We don't go on vacations.

We have one child who was in college and we were paying for that with cash.

She's pre-med so she has to go to school for that.

And so that's kind of how we lived our lives until this storm came.

But the storm made our house unlivable and so we had to go into a hotel for two and a half years.

And the insurance company

did not pay us like they said they would.

And so we ran up thousands and thousands of credit card debt dollars in debt to pay for food, housing, all of that stuff.

And unfortunately, we tried to resolve this with them and couldn't.

So we have an attorney who's filing suit against them to try to get our money back.

But in the meantime, we're trying to dog paddle our way out of this.

And at the same exact time, our child had to have open heart surgery.

We had to take her to California, to Stanford.

And we spend a lot of time, which I have no control over, these bills, at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester.

So I never know how to budget because I've got hotel bills unexpected when they say you have to come to Mayo and you have to pay for those things.

You have to pay for food when you're Mayo gas.

And so it's very difficult to budget.

So I just wanted to know if there's something I'm missing, because sometimes you're too close to it to see it.

What's the best way to manage this?

Because I don't feel like I have control like we used to have.

And I just wanted some ideas.

Okay.

So for 20 years, you were completely dead free and you didn't have any money?

Well, we did have money, but we used a lot of that to do repair at front.

We became the bank of state farm.

Yeah, I know, but how much how much money did you have?

We had a, I'm going to say saved up and not used for college cash on him because we just bought this house probably about $100,000

that we had saved up.

And so you shot off.

Why did it take two and a half years?

And why were you not buying your own food while working?

Well, we couldn't pay in the hotel.

You can't, you can buy food, but you can't cook if there's no

well, I mean, if it's going to take two and a half years, why don't you go rent something?

We tried.

There wasn't anything available that met the physical needs that we had.

We had moved our neighbor into our home who was 90 years old, actually, she's 95, for end-of-life care, and we couldn't have stairs, and there were just requirements that we had that they could not meet.

So we ended up in a hotel, and you had to pay for laundry, you had to pay for you know meals sometimes a day I mean state farm screwed you but so did those decisions

yeah

you quadrupled or five extra cost and it doesn't take two and a half years to rebuild a house oh it's not even done now I mean I mean why

like okay so I built an entire house in in 11 months why can you not build a house I I've got family members that just lost their house in Texas and last night was their first night back.

But it was it's been, what, four months, five months?

Like, yeah, two and a half years.

Tell me about that.

It seems like they could have knocked the whole house down.

It was a natural disaster.

It was a natural disaster.

So there were lots of building going on, projects going on.

So there weren't a lot of contractors available.

It was also during the time where you had high gas prices and stuff, and contractors didn't want to come out to look at the house if it wasn't something that they wanted to do because there was so much work.

There was a lot lot of contributing factors.

Also, the fact that State Farm was not approving things,

you kept having to wait.

They would make us do another estimate and another estimate, another estimate.

Right.

So, but you stayed in the ditch rather than making a decision to do something completely different for two and a half years.

So, that's what puts you here.

My goodness.

And now, the health, your daughter that's studying to be a doctor has had open heart surgery?

Correct.

So, she's not studying to be a doctor right now.

She's recovering, right?

No, the school is letting her stay in school, and she's trying to do stuff

online and submit things sometimes late.

Did she have health insurance?

She has our health insurance, my husband's health insurance.

And does it not cover the surgeries and the other stuff?

It covers surgeries, but it doesn't cover any of the other things associated with it, like hotel bills and gas and food when we go to mayo or when we had to go to stanford we were in stanford for seven months yeah so what is your household

188

and and you can't buy a hotel bill and go to stanford if you make 188 000

well again i mean we did and you know put things on credit cards why you know you make 188 000

because we had a mortgage payment and we had college tuition and we had other things that we were paying I mean, it wasn't, and we were paying, you know, for the house while we were in the hotel.

I mean, there was a lot of those, and I could sit here and go over a single bill and you go, oh, that makes sense.

But we're not extravagant.

I mean, we're not

giving you an idea like we've canceled our trash service and gather up our own trash and take the dump ourselves.

Yeah, but hold on.

We can run sprinklers.

It was money.

Yeah, we're not trying to pick those apart.

I think if I back all the way out of this thing,

I think the part for every emotional health challenge, there is this distance from this scary, terrifying line called reality.

And if you, on my show, I say this probably three times in an episode, which is the life you had is over and you got a new one now.

And what most people try to do is keep parts or the whole of their old life going while navigating this new reality.

And so, for instance, you were in a position when you were debt-free and had $100,000 in the bank and y'all made $200,000 a year to fully fund your kids' college.

That's a dream you'll have.

It's a priority for you.

If you can't afford it, though, you can't afford it.

And that's a hard conversation with your kids.

That's what I'm talking about.

Yeah, and the third month, not the third year,

I sue state farm and I move out of a hotel.

The third month.

And if I have to pay for nursing home for the 92-year-old neighbor

just to make me feel good about that, I will, or maybe not.

Or go to my church and say, maybe I can't do this.

I thought I could help this guy, and I can't help this guy anymore.

I'm not in a position because only the strong can help the weak.

And right now, our knees are broken, and we can't do anything.

And so, no, we can't pay for med school, and no, I'm not living in a hotel, and no, I'm not putting out requirements for a 92-year-old neighbor that caused me to go completely broke and lose everything I owned.

Because I stayed in a hotel two and a half years longer than I should have.

So I think you've got to start putting some limitations on some of these things that you keep declaring as absolutes in this conversation.

The absolute is we got to have a place to live and we got to keep our daughters like healthy.

And outside of that, I think everything's got to be back on the table.

And 188,000 will do those things.

Yeah.

Without credit card debt and without parsing it out and parsing it out and parsing it out.

So, and you know, just if it's any consolation to you at all, State Farm has a horrible reputational claims.

You're not the only one.

So soothe their butt.

But I'm not going to wait on around on them to fix my life either.

How many times do you end up with too much month at the end of the money?

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John, I came away from that last call

feeling

like I was too tough on her because she's been through a lot, bless her heart.

But

there's some kind of a thing that I guess you can guide us through from a counseling perspective.

I could do it almost from a business acumen perspective, but

when

tragedy occurs,

not if,

in your life,

it's going to have financial implications.

Correct.

How do you...

Because I meet people and she had done some of this.

I mean, bless her heart, she'd been through hell.

It's awful, okay?

And so I should have been probably more sympathetic.

But there's something that happens, and I did it, I think.

I think I did it during bankruptcy.

It like it gives us permission

to be illogical

in

setting boundaries for ourselves.

You know, it's like, okay, this has happened, and so now all the rules don't count.

Does that mean, you know what I'm saying?

Totally.

It's like a human nature thing.

I can think of times I've done it too.

So it's not just poor Kim with what the hell they've been through.

But I've done it, yeah.

But there's also,

how can we coach folks that are listening to say, okay, well, what should you do when tragedy occurs?

Somehow you've got to put,

you've got to truncate the, you've got to cut off

the damage, not expand the damage.

Yeah.

The only path, and I've wrestled with this for a couple of decades, sitting with somebody whose life was going one way, And it was often started with my college students.

Like they would be having a plan to go do a thing, and then mom would get cancer.

And they want to continue their degree in molecular biology, but also, and it always came back to, hey, hey, everything in your life is different now.

And we have to start here.

But I don't want to.

You're right.

It's not fair.

You're right.

This shouldn't happen.

You're right.

And yet,

here we are.

So the old phrase is you have a new normal.

You have a new normal.

And so the only thing I've seen people do to be successful in my own life and folks I've sat with is this word that we have an allergy to in our society, which is grief.

You have to spend some time just mourning this thing is over now.

And now I have to move forward.

I wanted to pay for my kids' college, but now my husband had a stroke and we've got to pay hospital bills.

And I got to sit down with my sophomore in college and say, this blows up your whole life.

And I'm so sorry.

But here's reality.

And instead of...

I wanted to take care of my 92-year-old neighborhood.

I wanted to.

What a noble, amazing thing.

And suddenly I don't have any money.

I wanted, I kept thinking.

I don't have a house.

I don't have a house, right?

I kept thinking that in two more months, they're going to get this thing rolling again.

And then two more months, after four months, three months, six months, I have to say, there's nobody coming.

And we are racking up bill after bill at this hotel.

We sure as crit stay farming.

I have to do something different.

Yeah.

Right.

And I was telling you off air, I had a family member that lost their house in the Texas floods.

They lived in a hunting trailer for months because that's all they had.

Not because they're noble or tough or anything.

It's all we had.

Or the alternative is,

I have to put myself in jeopardy in my older age and run up a whole bunch of debts I'm never going to be able to pay off.

And it's that the folks that I see are able to experience tragedy, which we all will.

And we talk about resilience, we talk about growing from, or there's a big word, post-traumatic growth, right?

Those that I see make that move are the ones who can sit in that exhale, grief, and say, everything's different now.

What's my next right move?

And if you can do that,

it's an amazing trajectory.

If you don't, you drag that past and it's this weird, I have permission to just go buy that meal.

I have permission just to stay in this place for two and a half years.

I have permission to keep doing the awesome work I was doing with my elderly neighbor, even though reality says you can't afford it, it's not going to happen.

And we're using her as an example, we're not picking on her.

It's all of us.

No, I wouldn't wish what she's experienced on anybody.

I do want to go back and

lighten that up a little bit.

But

the lesson, because one of the theories you should listen to the show is the lessons.

Right, right, right.

Not just the entertainment value of people's stuff.

But you want to say, okay, what's a lesson I can take away so I don't end up there?

Well, the lesson is you limit

the financial impact impact of the tragedy by restarting your life with a new definition quickly.

As quickly as you can get there.

Yeah.

And sometimes you don't feel your way into that.

You start acting your way into that.

The feelings will come later, up and down like a roller coaster, but I'm going to make the next right move is which is.

Okay, I'll give you an example.

Here's one I do all the time

for 30 years.

We're getting a divorce and the lady calls and says, I make 30,000, he makes $100,000, and I want to keep the house for the kids.

I don't want to disrupt their life.

I don't want to disrupt the kids' life.

A thousand times out of a thousand, I say, honey, you got to sell the house.

Because the life you used to have is no more.

You no longer have $130,000 income.

You have a $30,000 income, and you can't afford this house.

The kids are already disrupted.

Everything's disrupted.

It's called divorce.

And so they're restarting.

The best thing you can do for them is to restart them on solid ground, not a sinking ship.

And you trying to keep this house as a sinking ship.

So restart, reset your vision of your life.

And that's a little miniature one-off version of what we're talking about.

We talk to folks all the time who I was making $120,000.

My company did layoffs, and now I'm in month nine with no income.

And

they'll spin up a lot of activity.

I've got on LinkedIn and sent out 10,000 resumes via email.

No one's getting back to me.

So I think

we're going back to that reality.

Exactly.

So when you are restarting, one of the things you have to do is take inventory of what is still there.

What is still here?

The income, this is the income that I do have.

And this is,

I have, you know, it's almost like count your blessings.

Yeah.

Okay.

Here's what I do have to work with as opposed to what I used to have to work with.

And what I do have is a situation in Texas where everybody got wiped out at once in that area.

So finding a contractor is dadgum near impossible.

That's right.

And so I don't have

an overabundance of contractors to work with.

Right.

Okay, I don't have that.

And so what do I have?

I got a hunting trailer.

I got an old hunting trailer with an air conditioner.

I'm going to plug it in and we're going to make a go of it.

And until we can get the contractors to show up because everybody else is in line.

And

I can tell you this: there are

the city of New Orleans was virtually destroyed a couple of decades ago by a hurricane called Katrina.

And there are Cajun restaurants all over the United States today from people who left New Orleans because they had to start over.

Yeah.

And they couldn't start over there.

I was in Houston.

So many people came and said, New restaurant, man, we got to start here because my home doesn't exist in Dawker.

My life as I knew it before, I have to restart.

And in some cases, it's pull up steaks and go to a whole nother area.

That's right.

Is that fun?

No.

Do you lose your family heritage?

Yes.

Do you weep?

Yes.

And this thing, reality, just keeps chugging along.

Math doesn't change.

And it's hard.

And so if you're in the middle of a storm, like poor Kim has gone through multiple storms at once, and she had like the perfect storm.

It's awful.

The only thing we can tell you is take stock of what you do have, not what you used to have.

And reset a new vision.

that fits within those numbers.

And the other stuff is you have to sadly say no to.

That's right.

I can't live in this area anymore.

You can't go to this school anymore.

I can't take care of this person anymore.

I can't do this.

And you're going to have a whole lot of cants.

And that's what I mean by truncating.

You're going to have to stop doing some things that you used to were able to do in order to create a new life with the new limitations and in the new situation that is healthy and that doesn't follow your own.

Because if you don't, you end up with two decades to clean up the mess.

The tragedy goes on indefinitely.

Until you stop.

Until you stop.

Trying to

recreate the old life.

Yeah.

And this happens if there's an affair.

It's very fair, by the way.

It's not.

It's not fair.

And

this happens if you have an affair in your marriage.

This happens if you lose a job.

It happens to all of us multiple times throughout our lives.

The quicker you can exhale, sometimes getting out a pen and a piece of paper, what is true mathematically?

What's true?

What do I have?

What am I grateful for?

I got a trailer in the back.

I'm going to have to move in there.

And then that's the ash with which you plant the tree.

And man, new trees can grow, but you got to plant them in the soil of reality.

Many of you listen to the Ramsey show because you're sick and tired of getting nowhere with your money.

You work too hard to live paycheck to paycheck with no money in the bank.

But here's the deal: just listening to the show won't change that.

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We've helped millions of people save money, ditch debt, and build wealth.

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In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Ryan and Amber are with us.

Hey guys, how are you?

Doing great.

Welcome, welcome.

Where do y'all live?

Spring Grove, Minnesota, southeast Minnesota.

Cool.

Welcome to Tennessee.

Good to have you.

And all the way here to do a debt-free scream.

How much have you paid off?

$180,000.

Very cool.

For 32 months.

32 months.

And your range of income during that two and a half years?

Started at $140,000 and got up to $180,000.

Cool.

What do y'all do for a living?

I'm a construction superintendent for a general contractor.

And I do ultrasounds.

Oh, very cool.

Good for y'all.

Very good.

So, what kind of debt was the 180?

It was our house.

Look at it, weird people.

Young weird people.

Paid off a house early.

I love it.

Yep.

So what's this house worth?

We were selling right now and be right around 300.

Good for you guys.

Way to go.

And how much you guys got in your nest eggs already?

Your 401ks and stuff?

It's a little over 200 right now.

All right.

So you're about a halfway to a millionaire already.

And you're, what, 30?

How old are you?

28 and 27.

There it is.

Not even 30.

I don't know if y'all didn't get the memo.

You're not allowed to do that anymore.

You're not able to do that anymore.

Yeah, it's different to be weird, but all right.

Well, congratulations.

How long y'all been married?

Four years.

Okay.

And two and a half of that you've been tearing into this mortgage.

Yeah, yep.

So tell us the story.

How'd you get tied into Ramsey?

My first employer had Smart Dollars, so got tied into that and then followed the baby steps from there.

So we originally bought the house and we were working on like side projects in the house as a little fixer-upper.

working on our side projects and then the spring came around like a year and a half into buying the house.

Amber wanted to do some siding exterior updates.

And I was like, so we had some money set aside for that.

And I was like, ah, let's just pause on that.

Let's pay the house off.

So actually, it was,

what was it, for the months that we paid it off?

It was 13 months.

We paid off $132,000.

So we just paused all our projects and then put $132,000 away in 13 months.

Whoa!

That last year was really intense.

Yeah.

Very intense.

Yeah,

okay.

I want to get to these projects, so we're knocking this puppy out.

Yeah, Yeah, wow.

Wow, very cool.

Yeah, I wasn't on board at first entirely.

I really want to do that siding, but there's a point where it was projects that we needed to have done and projects that we didn't need to have done.

And when we sat down and Ryan's like, this is how much we're spending on interest, it's like, oh my gosh, it's just insane.

Eye-opening over the life of the loan, how much you would pay.

Y'all don't realize it yet because you've been married four years.

But most couples get to the, oh, I didn't know we could get through this after a major crisis.

And y'all decided early on, let's tackle a big monumental thing that nobody else is doing together.

Y'all don't know this yet, but y'all have proven to yourselves there's not a thing that the two of us can't lock arms and tackle together over the course of your entire marriage together.

It's so, I'm going to smile all day because this is awesome.

This is fantastic, man.

Yeah, there's so many good things that have happened to you, what you've become while you're doing this.

So proud of you.

Have y'all got the sighting done done since y'all paid it off no that's the next spring thing first i upgraded my car

i was driving an 08 in pala it had what 210 000 miles on it

that thing was so loud it was very embarrassing but you learn not to care what people think i love it so yeah you needed a car yeah yeah i'm glad you did that yeah so first goal was that then we'll do the siding next spring we got and so we just start laying out now that we don't have payment in the world we start laying out goals and knocking down goals right yeah exactly travel car siding whatever it is right yep amber let me ask you this okay i've had projects that start burning a hole every time i pull in the driveway that's all i see yeah i don't see the house i don't see my awesome wife kids i just see that but when you grind out another goal

I stop seeing it all the time.

Right.

Does that make sense?

Has it become less a burr in your soul?

Yeah, it's like it's worth it.

It's like the house is paid for now, and I can wait a year on sighting.

It's okay.

Yeah.

Very good.

good way to go you guys all right what do you tell people that are 25 years old and they want to pay off their house it can't be done america is dead the capitalism is killing everyone it's a systemic problem we're all stuck oh wait a minute holding my beer ryan and amber just paid off their house at 28 years old what do you tell them the key to getting out of debt is

i would say by far the biggest key is to uh

Just forget what other people think about you.

It's your own money.

You're working hard for it.

Live your own life, live your own goals.

I think we were listening to the podcast a couple weeks back, and Jade said it best.

She said, biggest superpower you can have with money is not caring what other people think.

That's so true.

So you did have some other people that had some thoughts, huh?

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You definitely get weird looks, that's for sure.

Yeah, because people know how that y'all aren't starving, right?

They know y'all are doing well, and then they can hear your car coming nine miles away.

And they're like, hey, you know, you can get a new car.

And it's hard.

I mean, the temptation is definitely hard.

But, I mean, at the end of the day, it's worth it.

Because when you're making that kind of money, you can literally, on the way home, pull into a dealership and go home with a new car that day.

Right.

With just a signature, right?

And to just go home and grind it.

That's so cool, man.

Who taught you both?

Because this is a and again, I'm kind of hijacking this call.

This conversation.

Who taught y'all?

to sit down together and to say, I want this.

And the other person says, Well, I want this,

and we're going to talk about this not as enemies, but as, okay, we both want different things, but we're going to come to some sort of solution.

That had to have been modeled somewhere for you, or y'all just are y'all even weirder than paying off house people.

Where'd y'all get that from?

Did your parents model that for you?

My parents definitely did for me, yeah.

Yeah, I'd say our parents were big models and that.

And somebody once told me, It's not you and him, it's not you versus him in a problem.

It's you and him versus the problem.

Ta-da!

Ta-da!

There it is, right?

I know, but people told me a lot of stuff when I was 24, I didn't listen to them.

Man, that's so amazing.

That's good, that's very good.

Well done, you guys.

All right, so the secret is not caring what other people think.

Then, absolutely, and then that frees you up to just do what you think and decide who gets a vote.

And if it's not one of us, nobody else gets a vote.

So, who was cheering you on?

Lots of friends, coworkers, parents, of course.

Our biggest thing is probably just how competitive we are, though.

Because we,

Dave, not to like make you as an insult, but we would call each other Dave-ish if one of us started slacking.

Oh,

yeah.

You're an ish.

Talk about Dr.

Zeus character.

You're an ish.

Don't be an ish.

Ish is a wish.

Yeah.

I like it.

That's good.

Y'all aren't the only ones in America that use it, man.

That's mean.

Dave is an insult.

So you're in good company.

That's good.

I like it.

I like it.

I'll take it.

My name gets used a lot of other ways to do it.

I'm going to say, y'all aren't the only ones that use Dave as an insult.

That's at least a positive methodology.

I'll go with that.

Good job, you guys.

Very, very, very good job.

So

when your mom and dad actually realize you're actually doing this, what did their face look like?

I mean, like, mom, we just wrote the last check.

We're done.

So my dad, I would meet him every week for lunch, and I'd always tell him, like, where we're at.

And he'd be like, oh, I'm so proud of you.

Like, that was huge just to have that reinforcement all the time but my parents actually paid their house off in four years so i was kind of like we got to beat that four-year-old

you are competitive

dad

yeah i like that very good gosh can i just say this to all the dads out there how proud is he of that you want to have an amazing daughter that grows up into an amazing woman have lunch with her every week and never let her leave the table without you looking her in the eyes and saying you're proud i'm proud of you.

Yeah.

That's that right there.

That's a superpower.

I mean, your dad gave you everything, and you got to, man, you're going to have to get pants to go all the way to the floor now, dude, because you got yourself a rock star you're married to.

It's amazing.

It's amazing.

All right, you guys, I'm proud of y'all.

We're proud of you, too, just like your dad is.

So proud, man.

Brian and Amber from Minnesota, $180,000 paid off in 32 months.

House and

They're not even 30 and they're already halfway to being Baby Steps Millionaires.

They'll be there in about 20 minutes at this rate, making 140 up to 180.

Count it down.

Let's hear a debt-free scream.

Three, two, one.

Yeah, baby.

That's how it's done.

Our scripture of the day, Matthew 10, 14, if anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off of your feet.

Thomas Sowell said, you can't stop people from saying bad things about you.

All you can do is make them liars.

That's pretty good.

As you well know, by now, the Fed has dropped rates, and mortgage rates have followed slightly.

They dropped them slightly, and mortgage rates have fallen a little bit.

5.71 right now for a 15-year fixed.

If you're financially ready, now is a great time to buy or sell.

Buying or selling an affordable home you love is possible when you work with a Ramsey trusted real estate agent.

These pros are hand-picked to guide you through the market and keep your financial goals top of mind.

Find a trusted local pro for free at ramseysolutions.com slash agents or click the link in the show notes.

Lane's in Ohio.

Hi, Lane.

How are you?

Good.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

So me and my fiancé, we're 21 and 22, so both live with our parents.

We're looking to move out probably in May when she graduates college.

And we don't really know if we should buy a car for her first or wait until we buy a house, but I don't know if we buy a car or if we uh we'll have 20% down for a house.

You can wait on the house.

You need to get a car first.

It's okay.

It's okay.

It's okay to rent an apartment for a year and you got to save up some money.

And if you use part of the money you've saved to buy her a car for cash, then you need to replenish that for your down payment fund to be full again.

If that takes a year and you rent a little apartment for a year, that is not going to set you back in your life.

You're going to be fine.

Okay.

Should we put 20% down on our house or should we try to just do a FHA one?

Well, FHA has MIP,

which is much like PMI.

PMI is private mortgage insurance, mortgage insurance premium is what MIP stands for.

And FHA is a much more expensive loan in all the fees and the interest rates than a conventional loan.

So if you have the ability to put together 20%

on your first home, you're better off to do a conventional loan than an FHA loan.

But you don't have to worry about that right now for about almost two years

from right now because she's graduating in May.

You're getting married then, sounds like.

And then we're going to get her a car and then we're going to rent for a year and that puts you almost two years from now.

Yeah.

So the thing you need right now is one of the fruits of the spirit, a healthy dose of patience, man.

You want to give her the world.

You want to give her everything, and I love that,

but slow down.

Yeah, just gonna be good, man.

Back it, back it off, slow your roll.

Nikki's in California.

Hey, Nikki, how are you?

Hi, John.

Hi, Dave.

Thanks for taking my call.

Sure, what's up?

I'm calling because my husband and I are in a little over $300,000 worth of debt.

About $120,000 of it is IRS debt, and

my fault.

But

I know you say, you know, do whatever you need to do to break away from the IRS.

They sent notices for liens and levies and all that.

So we've set up a payment plan,

but

I am wondering how desperate we need to get in this situation.

Very.

What's your household income?

We make about $350,000.

Okay.

Why, pray tell, do you owe the IRS $120,000 then?

Well, okay, so I was previously divorced.

And at that time, I'm a nurse now.

I'm making money now, but at that time, I was not.

I had three kids.

I literally just put my head down and worked and worked and worked just to keep the loop over our head.

I did not file taxes probably for about four years.

Okay.

And now you've gone back, you've gotten remarried, and now you've gone and filed.

Yes, I went and filed, and then our income together is just way too much.

So obviously, we owed that first year.

So, yeah.

Okay.

And what's the rest of the $300,000 in debt?

So we've got about $100,000 in student loans,

and the rest of it is credit cards and personal loans.

Okay.

All right.

And so you've got $80,000 in credit card debt?

Yep.

About that.

How long have y'all been married?

We just got married in 23, June of 23.

Okay.

And who brought the credit card debt?

Well, so, I mean, we both had some.

I had a lot of money.

Has it continued to grow after you got married?

No,

we've been paying it down since.

So we've gotten rid of of several.

All right.

So here's where we are today.

Today you make $350,000.

You got $300,000 in debt.

And what part of California do you live in?

The Bay Area.

The most expensive part.

Absolutely, you do.

Okay.

All right.

And how much is your house payment?

$5,000.

And what's your house worth?

About $7.80,000.

We just bought it in $23,000, so we bought it for $7.50,000.

Well, it's probably worth more than $7.80,000 then.

If you bought it in 23,000.

Well, that's what Zillow.

Well, Zillow.

Zillow said.

Okay.

Okay.

So let's go with $900.

And what do you owe on the house?

About

$620,000, maybe.

Okay.

All right.

So you guys are living right on the edge on everything.

Everything's got a payment on it.

Everything's locked down.

We make $350,000 and we feel broke.

Pretty much.

Yeah.

Okay.

And it's not a super expensive house for San Francisco.

I mean, that's a cheap house, really, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

What do you do for a living?

Your nurse, what's he do?

He's a manager.

A manager.

Okay.

Yeah.

All right.

Well.

What I'm going to do is buckle down and live on nothing.

Pretend like I am broke, because you are.

And I'm going to cut up all the credit cards.

We're not going to use them anymore.

We're going to do a written budget every month.

You and your husband.

You don't make $350,000.

You make $50,000, and you need to pay off $300,000 worth of debt.

Or you make $100,000, and you're going to pay off $250,000 worth of debt and be debt-free in about two years, starting...

with the blessed IRS and then work your way through a debt snowball on the other stuff after you get rid of the IRS.

But you guys need to go pay them like your hair's on fire and get them out of your life because the penalties and the interest that they're charging you are the worst on the planet.

And they have almost unlimited power to come and mess with your life even when you're on a payment plan.

They might make a clerical error and put a lien on your house even though you're on a payment plan.

They can.

if they want to.

And so what I want you to do is get them out of your life like your life depended on it.

So I think what's happened is, is you guys are living a bay lifestyle and you're eating up your 300 grand and you're not making much progress on this debt.

And I want you to live a lifestyle as if you lived somewhere else and didn't have a life because you don't.

You're broke.

Act like it and attack this debt with a vengeance.

Yeah, and I hear in your story, Nikki, and even in your voice,

that fear of that single mom who has just put her head down and tried to keep a roof over the head of her babies during a really chaotic time.

It would be easy to say you shouldn't have spent all that, yada, yada.

I just want to tell you I'm proud of you for getting through that four years.

And it's easy to think, I got my degree, I'm a nurse, I married a guy who makes a good income.

Together, we have a good income, and to take your foot off the gas.

And I want you to let that woman who's been grinding it out finally be free.

And that means you got two years of hitting the gas.

And I'm telling you on the other side of this, with nothing but a house payment, making $350,000, you are going to finally feel that peace you've been craving for so many years.

But there's no other way than through this thing.

So just get through it as fast as you possibly can.

No restaurants, no fancy cars, and everyone's going to be like, I thought you were, yep.

As for me and my house, we will not be owned by anybody.

And the one way, I'll say it again, there's only one way through it, only one way, and that's through it.

Just get through it as fast as you possibly can.

That puts us hour of the Ramsey show in the books.

We'll be back with you before you know it.

In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.