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Normal is broke and common sense is weird.

So we're here to help you transform your life.

From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show.

And I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with my good friend and best-selling author Jay Borshaw.

And we're here to answer your questions.

So give us a call at 888-825-5225.

First, we have Drew in Fort Worth, Texas.

Hey, Drew, welcome to the show.

Hey, guys, thank you so much for taking my call.

Yes, absolutely.

How can we help?

Quick background before I state my question.

15 years ago, my parents went broke and transferred their house to me for a symbolic dollar to keep it from the bank.

The transfer was was legal.

The contract gives them a lifelong right of residence, but doesn't require rent.

They only pay property taxes and upkeep, meaning no positive cash flow on my end.

They also verbally agreed to pay off the remainder of the mortgage.

Because of that, they have always acted as if the house was still theirs, allowing people to live in parts of the house and remodel sections without my knowledge.

And I'm okay with that.

Now, after their court case ended last year, they're expecting me to pay for the house.

And my question is, am I required to pay them if I want to keep the house?

So they would be moving out in this deal.

They would be moving out and the house would go to you.

No, the lifelong residency, right of residency, keeps them in there, and I'm okay with that.

Right, but you said that they...

It sounded like you were saying they want you to pay for the house, which means they would move, correct?

No, or they want to live there while you pay for it.

Exactly.

Well, geez,

how much is the house worth, Drew?

More than 500K.

Okay.

How old are you?

I'm 36.

36.

Do you have a family?

Yes.

Okay.

And so everyone's living in the house together?

No, we're actually living in a different country.

That house

is not in Texas, in Fort Worth.

Oh, I'm sorry.

Okay.

So your family is in a different country?

Explain it again.

I'm confused.

Yes.

So

I and my family, my wife and our kids, we are living, we are here in Texas.

Okay.

And my parents, they live in that house in a different country.

Got it.

So what, what is, go ahead.

Now, as the court case ended last year, that raised the questions, the question, how do we proceed?

And they verbalized the expectation that i pay if the house if i keep the house

right and my my question is yes i would like to keep the house and the transfer was legal but i i don't think to be honest to be required to pay well i think if you're going to keep the house you should be living in it or to you know deciding it in some way yeah yeah as opposed to you keeping it just for ownership purposes and them living in it.

Now, if you were to keep it, would you require them, let's say you did keep it, you kept the, you know, you took over the mortgage, would they pay you rent or they would pay zero?

Um,

I don't know.

And why would you pay for a house, Drew, that you're not, that you're not living in at all?

I mean, you, you have no financial gain at all from this.

And it's in a different country.

What country is it in?

It's in Germany.

Okay.

So the point is, I would like to keep the house to generate workflow,

positive cash flow after they moved out.

Probably, and I'm okay with them living in the house after they

pass away.

The point is

at that point,

I would generate positive cash flow at that point.

And I do not intend to live in that house.

I think

it's an asset for me to generate pass.

I hear what you're saying, but here's what it sounds like.

It sounds like the number one thing you're concerned about is having a place for your parents to live and providing that.

Otherwise, if that wasn't number one on your list, you would sell that house and buy a house here in the States to do the $500,000.

Yeah, that's in Fort Worth.

Yeah.

So Germany.

I don't think that having a rental property is your number one goal.

I think somewhere along the lines, you feel the need to house your parents.

And I think that's the real conversation here, right?

Yes,

I think you nailed that.

Yes.

I'm concerned about them as far as I want them, or I agreed to the lifelong right of residence in the contract, and I honor that.

So, but I do not see any reason why

I should pay them now, as the house is technically and legally mine, that I should pay them back for the house.

Is the house paid off?

Yes.

Okay.

And how much do they want you to pay back?

We did not talk about that yet.

Okay.

It just sounds like, Drew, there's a lot of details that you guys haven't talked about.

If I were in your shoes today,

this is very messy.

And if I were in your shoes, I'd say, guys,

you know, thanks.

You know, you guys included me in this, but I don't want to be included anymore.

Yeah, I was going to say, can you, from a legal standpoint, because I'm a little bit unfamiliar, I guess that's German law,

the lifelong resident.

Yeah, right of residence.

Yeah, I mean, I'm not 100% sure on that, Drew.

So my question is, is there any way legally you can get it out of your name, give it back to them, and then they leave it to you when they pass as, you know, their estate?

Is there a way just for you to be completely out of the situation just while they're alive and let them have their house and they've paid for it, right?

They paid it off, right?

Not you.

Yes.

Yes, they did.

Okay, so

yes.

So is there any way just let them live in the house?

But you don't need to pay them.

I don't think you need to pay them because you're not living in it.

And you're not selling it.

And it's not your asset.

Yeah.

So if I, yeah, so I, yeah.

If I were you, I would see even legally if there's a way to get your name out of this whole thing.

Yes.

Because for some reason, if they fall behind on property tax or whatever it looks like for them, if there's any catch-all for you, Drew, then you're here in Texas.

You know, it's your parents, they paid for the house, all of that.

So no, I don't think you need to pay them back.

But if it's in your name, I could see how they're thinking, okay, they they don't have any control, control, and they don't have anything to their name at that point.

And if they get in a bind, they have no assets, but yet they paid for a house, so it is theirs, right?

Yes, they paid for the house, but legally they transferred it to me for a dollar.

Yeah, yeah, they did.

So

either you transfer it back for a dollar, can you do that?

No, for $120,000 taxes.

That's the limit?

Like, that's the minimum that you can do?

No, if I would transfer it according back to them according to the law, German law, at this point, they would pay $120,000 in property in selling

selling taxes.

Got it.

Got it.

So the only way then,

oh boy.

Yeah, it is a mess.

And I almost would find some kind of legal way to write this up.

I don't know how you would do that, but I don't, yes, they paid for the house.

You didn't pay anything anything for the house, yet you were given a $500,000 gift.

And then they're like,

well, it wasn't.

Let's remember it wasn't a gift.

It was to shield them from like

negative behavior.

It sounds like so.

My position would be:

I think I've paid far more already than the house is worth.

Because a few months after I signed the contract, I discovered that I had lost eligibility for government financial aid for a college degree.

Ah,

You gotta get with the lawyer to get out of this.

Yeah, at that point, then you're tangled in a mess.

But I would not want my name on a deed or a situation that I have no control over or I'm not around.

That's that would be my number one for you, Drew.

Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance, or they don't have any at all.

I don't understand this, John.

Why don't people want to take care of their family?

They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys, I didn't even think about it.

And one of my buddies said, Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids.

And I immediately went and got termed life insurance.

That's a gut punch.

And oh, you're telling me, and for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse.

They've lost somebody important to them.

Me too.

They don't know what to do next.

Me too.

I mean, you're going to have a crisis here.

And, you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow.

She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow.

That's exactly.

These are the two options.

And terminal.

Take care of your dadgum family, man.

Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses, so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad.

Yeah.

To just miss you.

That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance.

Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable.

I've used them personally for 25 years.

They're the only people I trust.

Go to xander.com or call 800-356-4282.

Up next, we have Josh in Seattle, Washington.

Hi, Josh.

Welcome to the show.

Hi, Rachel.

How are you?

Hi, we're doing great.

How can we help?

Yes, I had a question about converting a home equity line of credit over to like a 12 or 15 year mortgage because we're not making any progress.

We're just paying interest only right now and will for the foreseeable future.

Okay, because of the payment and you what that's what you guys can afford or what?

We we pay a ridiculous amount for private school education for four kids and that's kind of locked down our monthly

I guess ability to make any progress.

How much is the HELOC and how much is the tuition for the four kids?

Sure.

So the like the interest only payment or how much do we owe on on the month?

Why don't you tell me both?

What's the total amount and how much do you pay every month?

Sure.

So we owe $65,208

and then our minimum our interest only payment each month is right around $450.

It kind of fluctuates'cause it's a variable rate.

And then our monthly monthly payment for private school is $3,704.

And what's your income between you and your wife?

Sure.

So I it just changed.

My wife just went back to work this year.

So she'd been out of work raising the kids, not out of work.

Jeez, how insensitive.

No,

she was at home with the kids and just went back to work a month ago.

So that just added about $1,000 a month.

So our total take-home is right around

10, sorry, $11,500 right around there.

And what's your mortgage payment?

We don't have one.

Oh, it's paid.

Your house is paid off.

What did you take the HELOC out on?

Do what?

To do a home remodel.

We lost our minds.

We paid off the house.

We were completely debt-free.

And we were working baby steps four, five, and six.

And then I had some really good ideas.

And it turns out they were terrible ideas.

And we borrowed $105,000 for a home remodel and then spent the rest in cash.

Okay, but still,

you're making $11,500.

School is $3,000 a month total, right?

$3,700, $3,700.

Okay, still.

So you're at $7,000 a month.

You have no mortgage.

Where's the problem here?

To pay $450 a month or more.

You could pay $1,000 a month to pay off this HELOC.

Yeah, it would just take forever.

There's the problem.

Okay, now, Rachel, now we got to the bottom of it.

It has nothing to do with the payment.

It has to do with the fact that you're like, I'm tired of paying this.

Can't I just roll it into my mortgage?

So I, or create a mortgage out of it.

Which would be a difference, though, for you, you, Josh.

Like, what's the it's all

the same.

Is it just the interest that you're worried about?

Yeah, it's that we're not making any progress, and it's just interest only.

So, we're not making a dent in the $65,000.

So, how much extra could you pay?

Say you did convert it to a mortgage, how much extra would you find to pay to pay it?

Because if you kept it at $450,000, I'm not going to be

how much

$500 a month.

Where's all your money going, Josh?

I'm confused.

I mean, can you guys log into my Every Dollar app?

Yeah, I know.

I kind of want to.

You log in.

Why won't you log in and tell us?

You're living like you're on baby steps four, five, and six, but you're not.

You guys are back to baby step two, which means beans and rice, rice and beans, and you're doing nothing, nothing, but paying down the $65,000.

This could be a student loan.

This could be a car.

You could throw any type of debt on this.

That's what this is.

And you guys are back to that starting point.

And it doesn't need to be a mortgage.

Yeah, I mean, just like

take live on nothing you don't have a house payment like

i'm laughing because it's it's kind of shop at all shop at aldi yes don't go out to eat don't go on vacation cut subscriptions do nothing until this is paid off yes and you've got the income to do it

i mean you've got to at least find two thousand out of this

I mean, not really.

When we look at the numbers and where we're allocating funds, like contributing to the ROS.

No, stop it, Josh.

Stop it.

You're on baby step two, Josh.

You're not on baby steps four, five, and six.

Stop the kids' college, stop retirement, all of it, and get the $65,000 paid off.

You got it.

Okay.

Because, Josh, because what are you, you're wanting to convert it to a mortgage and then put it, what, in baby step six and then just kind of slowly like just get rid of it?

Yeah, that's what he wants to do.

Yeah.

Because then with the extra, if we paid, you know, what we're paying right now for it in addition to

here's why I don't like that for you.

Here's why I don't like that for you because you already,

I don't like you putting it into a mortgage because now this is risk on your home, right?

And I don't like this because you're already like, it sounds like you're averse to paying off debt.

So this is a can that you're going to kick down the road for a really long time.

And I think you're trying to put yourself in a position where you can kick the can down the road.

Yeah, because you guys make how much a year?

Right now, about 140

before.

Yeah, because kind of our rule of thumb, Josh, is if a HELOC is over half of your annual income, then we say you can roll it into your primary mortgage, but it's not.

It's less than half of it.

So it's got to be on baby step two.

Oh, and I'm 46 and stopping retirement right now.

You're 46 and sorry, took out $100,000 that you borrowed on your home.

Like, I don't.

That should make you more intense.

The fact that you said, oh my gosh, I'm 46.

I took out this HELOC.

I have to pause retirement.

That should make you go, holy crap, I got to get my butt in line and I got to go.

And instead, you're like, get this paid off.

Josh, get this paid off in two years.

Get it paid off in two years.

Yeah.

I mean, that's that.

Yeah.

You called.

I think you were enjoying the ride of baby steps four, five, and six.

Then you went back in debt,

which takes you back to baby step two.

I wanted to call because of that, because I was afraid Dave was going to answer.

I'm nicer than him, though.

I'm only saying it with a smile.

It's awful.

No, I'm not saying, I know.

I'm not trying to make you feel bad.

I'm not trying to make you feel bad, Josh.

I know.

I just want to, I want to, I need you.

I'm trying to shake you back into reality of where you are financially.

Yeah.

And so that's where you guys are.

And so you got to go back in that mindset.

And y'all paid off your house.

Like, you guys can do this.

You guys can do this.

And I know

that it's not fun, but I'm like, when you have that all paid off, you're not even going to have to worry about this.

And I think you can do it in two, two and a half years.

Yeah.

And if your wife works extra, if she, if she makes double what she's making now instead of a thousand dollars a month,

people do that on a side hustle, right?

I mean, like, have her go back more full-time.

I do have, yeah, I've been doing real estate for 10 years.

And so right now, with working full-time with the government, I do about six to eight transactions a year in real estate.

So if that comes through and if that continues, we could if we went back to step two.

Yeah.

It's just, it's not, we can't count on it.

Okay, so baby step two, final answer.

I would.

And final, final answer.

And again, just, I go back to the math of it.

Then the math doesn't have emotions.

So it doesn't have my like, Josh, what did you do?

It is half of your annual income is the HELOC.

And that's kind of just the rule of thumb around Ramsey.

If it's half of it, you put it in baby step two.

If it's more than that, you know, if you had, if it was at still $100,000.

That'd be a little different.

Then it would be a little different.

And we could talk about, you know, that.

But I think it's just the, it's the pain of

the pain of the consequences of going backwards.

Of course.

And that's just feeling that.

And that's what happens, you know, and people, you know, listening right now, that happens to people because of, you know, a job loss.

They go through their emergency fund.

They can't replace an income.

They go back into debt.

Like sometimes it happens because of life happening to you.

Josh, I love you.

But sometimes it's us choosing to make it

the new kitchen.

Yes, yes.

And so that's why you got, yeah, and the HELOC, and I bet, I bet it, because he said I think they started at 100

or something.

Yeah, so I mean, they've, they've, they've knocked some of it down, which makes me think they got it a few years ago during the COVID

2021, 2022, when, when HELOCs just became so popular because everyone's at home being like, okay, let's get a pool.

And everybody's mortgage doubles.

Yeah, that's right.

Yeah.

So their value.

That's right.

You get all this equity and you're like, okay, I can use this.

But that's the problem.

And then also hear the pain, you guys, of the variable rate, the variable rate.

The HELIS, it's all, yes, it is up and down, and it kind of rides that wave and

all the formulas of even how they get it.

So just cash flow, these things, you guys.

And it takes longer.

It's not as fun.

It may not be as beautiful, but at least you can afford it, that you're living within your means.

So, Josh, we are cheering you guys on.

Call us back in two and a half years.

I hope it's sooner.

And do your another, yeah, do another debt-free scream.

If you've listened to me for more than five minutes, you know that being normal with your money is not a good thing because normal is broke.

And I want you to be weird.

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Well, thank you for all of you that join us, whether it's on YouTube, podcasts, Spotify,

radio, all of it.

We appreciate it.

And one of the best things that you can do for us is help spread the word.

So make sure to like, subscribe, share our episodes with your friends and your family,

because we want everyone to be able to start to learn how to get control of their money and how to do this area of their life well.

So that's always helpful for us, but we're always so thankful to you guys.

All right, up next we have Sarah, who is in Kentucky.

Hi, Sarah.

Welcome to the show.

Hi, thanks so much for having me on.

You're so welcome.

How can we help today?

Okay, so my best friend

claims to essentially live by the Ramsey method, but nothing they do is

like Ramsey approved, I guess you could say.

Oh, no.

What do they do, Sarah?

Well, okay, so

since I've been friends with her, which was starting at the beginning of the year, like they have owned like four or five different vehicles.

Like they're constantly buying and trading, and they claim they make money off of these vehicles.

And I'm thinking, like, buying a $90,000 vehicle to make four grand doesn't make sense.

Well, are they paying cash for it?

No.

Oh, okay.

Why does it, what do you care?

What do you care?

Because it kind of drives me crazy.

Because I know like what they're doing.

They just went out and bought a $120,000 escalate.

And I literally was like, you all could have paid off half of your mortgage for what you just spent on this car.

She says, well, I get too many tax deductions from having a house.

I don't want to paid off mortgage.

So she doesn't follow the Ramsey plan, but you do.

Yes, I have.

Yes.

I've started listening to you all in the last few months.

I've just got my $1,000 saved up.

And now I'm working towards,

I've got like $3,000 of debt.

So I'm working on that.

But yeah, I listen to you guys every single day.

I clean houses for a living and I'm a single mom.

So I have nothing but time on my hands.

Sarah, you're amazing.

Okay.

So how can we, how can we help you?

I'm going to help

you right now.

What can we do for you today?

I struggle being their friends because of the lifestyle that they live.

There you go.

Sarah, I'm going to tell you what I tell my son all the time.

Okay, so I can tell my son, Prince, go upstairs and brush your teeth.

And the minute I say that, he's like, well, ZZ didn't brush her teeth.

And he's always looking over at what she's, because I've given him a responsibility and he wants to make sure that the other person has to do their responsibility as well.

And I told him the other day, I said, you want to know what you need to do, Prince?

Just mind your business.

Take care of yourself.

Take care of yourself and mind your own business.

And,

you know, she'll get dealt with.

Don't worry about that.

I'm looking and I see what she's doing over here.

You don't have to worry about that.

Just mind your own business and go brush your teeth.

And I would tell you the same thing, Sarah: mind your own business and pay off your debt.

And if she's your friend and she's like, well, I'm doing the baby steps too.

All you have to do is say, no, you're not.

Or just smile.

And just smile.

That sweet Kentucky southern, passive-aggressive, just smile and nod.

Bless your heart.

It's all you need to do.

You just look at her and smile.

She stresses me so bad.

Okay, so

I am.

Okay, but you're but it's not your bills.

You know what I mean?

No, I know.

Now, Sarah, I will say, I will say there, there, there is,

and I don't want this to sound isolating, this comment, but just the idea of when you shift your mind and you change your mind, you do start to want to gravitate towards people that are like-minded.

That's true.

And so there may be a point, and I'm not saying you can't be friends with people on debt.

Okay, my friend, I mean, like, if we lived by that, we would have probably no

friends.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So it's not even that.

It's not an isolating comment, but I think it's good self-awareness to say, wow, I have changed the way I'm viewing this part of my life.

And people that are not congruent with it, I can feel this like tension point.

And man, it kind of sucks that I feel like I'm like,

you know, growing in this area and other people aren't.

And you're going to probably feel that tension.

And over time, does that naturally...

maybe, you know, start to separate you guys.

I don't know.

Maybe, Sarah.

I have no idea.

I mean, we go to church together and and everything.

I feel like there's no getting away from her.

I'll just be honest.

Well, do you want to get away from them for other reasons, too?

It sounds like maybe you do.

Is she like just not a fun person?

Because, yeah, if that's the case.

Well, no, I mean, we have a good time together, but like, she does not work or anything.

Like, she has a little boutique she's been running on the side, and she claims to make.

like 10 or 15 grand a month off of this business.

What's wrong with that?

And I know that.

What do you mean, what's wrong with it?

Can I tell you, I'm your buddy right now.

I'm going to be your...

Y'all aren't going to offend me.

Okay.

I want y'all to be open.

I think there's certain things that I'm tracking with you where I'm like, yeah, that could be a little bit annoying.

Or, you know, yeah, she's wrong.

But there are certain things, Sarah, that you're saying that actually sound a little bit like you're kind of hating on them a little bit.

I just,

she's not considerate of like my life, if that makes sense.

Like she has nothing to do.

She doesn't have a job or anything.

But you said she runs a boutique.

Her life is different from yours.

And, Sarah, she might.

But she does events.

Sarah.

Like, she only does events.

That's okay.

Sarah, she could do less.

She could be putting in less hours than you and making more

money than you.

And you cannot hate on her for that.

And, Sarah, her and her husband can buy whatever cars they want.

They can.

And I get it that that you don't like it, but that doesn't affect you, and you're letting it get too much in your life.

And as much as you think that she's not being a good friend right now, you're also not being that great of a friend because you're hating on her a little bit.

And this is just me being a good friend to you.

I don't, I don't want to feel like I'm hating.

I don't want it to seem like I'm hating on them.

It's just

the lifestyle they live, and she's like, and she's, well, we live a normal life.

and I'm just like no you don't though like I just

We've only been friends for like nine months So I mean it's this is all kind of really new for me

Yeah, I think you here's what I think I think you're a really hard worker and I think you know how to grind and I think you know how to you know what I'm saying?

Yeah, you're willing to put in lots of work you you understand struggle you you're ready to get in the ring all the time.

I can sense that about you and I think it's irking you that somebody is acting like they're working as hard as you when you're like, no, you're not.

And I get that.

She does.

She does.

And my friend Amanda from church, she's like, it's all about perspective with the work.

And I get that.

I do.

I know.

Well, and Sarah, so I think, and I've had to do this for myself throughout the years too, because when you're comparing your life to someone else, I wanted to blame the other person.

And I even in my head would sometimes be like, I bet they're on this trip to Europe on credit cards.

And I bet they can't even afford.

Here I am.

And I have to wait another six months.

So we go on to, you know, I mean, you make up a story about someone.

And I had to finally tell myself, Rachel, you don't know.

You don't know how hard they work.

You don't know how much money they actually make.

You don't, you don't know.

You don't know.

And I shouldn't know.

It's none of my business.

And actually, the problem is not them.

It was me.

It's me.

In the comparison world, we want to blame social media.

We want to blame the neighbor.

We want to blame everyone else.

But to be honest, it ends up being more of our issue.

And so where can you get to a point, Sarah, that number one, you are confident in who you are and the choices you're making around money and your lifestyle, that when other people come up and that their lifestyle looks so different than you and or, you know, you have thoughts about it, if you could get to the point where you just think honestly, like, good, good for y'all.

Great job.

Okay.

And I get to move on because the amount of energy and effort that she's in your brain right now, like the rent-free space that she has in your brain, Sarah, it's not worth it.

Now, the friendship element, if Dr.

John Delonee was sitting here, we could have a relational conversation of, hey, she may not be somebody that you guys share similar values.

And I'm probably not sure if you're not.

She kept a lot of friends throughout.

Like, she's not been able to ever keep friends for a long time.

And that's great to know.

Then I would put that in your data in your head: okay,

she may be a hard person to love and be in a relationship with, and that's okay.

But we can be kind, we can be curious and not judgmental.

Um, and y'all go to church, Sarah.

Let's let's bring some of this peace and patience and kindness and goodness.

Let's let the fruit of our faith live out and love people well, even though some people are hard to love.

And as my dad says, some children of God are stupid children, right?

Like, there are some.

I think we can say it all, but have a level of grace for her and yourself.

And it's okay to have boundaries, Sarah.

If you need to put up relational boundaries with her, that's okay too.

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well it's crazy to think jade but the new year it's approaching oh my gosh wild we are we are in that see that fall season where these months are going to fly and i would encourage you guys not just to set goals in 2026, but learn how to reach them.

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All right, let's go to Morgan in Chicago.

Hi, Morgan.

Welcome to the show.

Hi, thanks for having me.

Absolutely.

How can we help?

All right.

So my husband was laid off a couple of months ago, and I was recently promoted.

And previously, we were both making about $150,000 for a total of $300,000 for the household.

And with my promotion, I'm going to be now making $182,000.

It's worth noting, I work remotely and I have great work-life balance.

But as my husband starts to look for his next role and we look to start a family, my question is twofold.

One, can I quit my job to become a stay-at-home mom, word-willing?

And two, if I can, how much would my husband need to make in order to sustain our family?

Okay.

So are you, do you guys have kids right now?

We don't.

No, but you're wanting to maybe start a family soon?

That is the hope.

Okay, great.

That's so fun.

i'm glad you're looking ahead do you guys own a house right now or where are you in the baby steps we do we're in chicago right now we have a mortgage we just refinanced we're down to about three thousand dollars with our hoa a month okay we might need to look to moving to his family from pittsburgh and we might be thinking about moving there just as we look to grow the family yeah

whenever people call in so i'll kind of tell you in reverse how this usually happens usually Usually what ends up happening is one spouse wants to stay home.

And the biggest issue and the biggest barrier to that is their mortgage, right?

Because once they lose that other income, the mortgage, which was 25% of their take-home, becomes 50% of their take-home, right?

So that's really one of the biggest pitfalls that if you can avoid that, yeah, you're setting yourself up for success.

So your income going up to 182 and his remaining at 150, yeah, the question is, can you guys live off of 150 or whatever it is that you foresee his income to be in the next year or two, whenever the family starts?

Right.

And I think right now the issue is he was in consulting and that market has taken quite a hit and he's looking to move into a different industry.

So he might have to take a CPA and a certified treasury professional.

So we're hoping that those certifications will help him parlay into what he's looking to move into.

But the likelihood is that he's probably going to be taking a pay cut, moving down into like the $90,000, $100,000 range.

And so that would, it would change our lifestyle, how we tie,

everything about our budget.

That's a big, I mean, that's a $200,000

jump down.

Do you guys have any debt?

We don't, thankfully.

Okay, that's and why do you guys feel like he's automatically going to make less?

Like, is there anything that from what he's done in the past?

And you know what I mean?

Like, why is there an industry that he can enter into

that he loves and make more?

That would be, I mean, that'd be an answered prayer for sure.

I'm definitely in the camp that I think he's got, he was eight years at a big four consulting firm, which people kill for that kind of experience.

I think when you're in consulting, sometimes, though, you're kind of a jack of all trades, a master of none.

And so, it's hard for him to find an industry role where he has the exact background that they're looking for.

And the market's just bad right now in general for hiring.

So, yeah.

Well, the good thing is, y'all aren't in a rush.

You're not in a rush.

If anything, by next month, maybe you have nine months, right?

I mean, like, if it, if it happens quickly, and if you guys decide to start now, but maybe you guys are like, well, hey, we'll wait or maybe it takes a little longer.

We don't know.

So the good thing is, you guys have time.

We just see on this show a lot, and I'm going to sound like Dave because I feel like he went on this rant last time I was on the show with him, that this, it's like a self-fulfilling prophecy of people that change jobs automatically think they're going to make less.

And so there's, and I'm not this like person like, oh, just think it and it's going to happen.

It's not that, but, but be aggressive, like, like have some level of gumption and confidence of like, oh, no, you do have, he does have experience.

And like you just said, people would kill for that kind of experience.

And I understand that it's a little bit more of a broad thing and he wants to go more specific.

I get all that.

But as you guys are looking, don't just assume, oh, he's going to make less.

So have him, you know, I mean, like, I don't know.

I would have a little bit more pep in his step and belief in himself, too, so that it's not an automatic pay grade, number one.

And then, yeah, number two, Morgan, I think you guys will have to, you know, make some calls when that re, when the reality really hits, I really appreciate you guys planning and thinking ahead.

Um, but when the reality actually sets in, when, you know, when you become pregnant and all of that, that you're going to really get to kind of crunch numbers and see,

okay, are we going to be able to afford to stay in Chicago?

Are we going to make the move now?

You know, it's going to answer, I think, a lot of questions depending on what job he takes and i think you know my hope is within yeah that nine-month period he's going to find something great yeah i agree yeah i i the best thing you could do is to test it before it's actually real and i mean it's going to be hard with a three thousand dollar a month mortgage but get a sense and say okay for the next two months we're going to live off of the you know the net amount of a hundred thousand dollars and let's see what that feels like and you have the luxury of testing that to see and just get a sense of it.

And if you're like, oh my gosh, this is not what I thought it was going to be, then you can start talking about what does that mean?

Right.

So, yeah, test it.

Put it in into real, into real life.

Yeah, that's wise.

Thank you guys.

I appreciate that.

Yep, absolutely, Morgan.

Good luck to you guys.

All right.

Up next, we have Trenton in Los Angeles.

Hi, Trenton.

Welcome to the show.

Hey, thanks for having me.

How are you both doing?

We're doing great.

How can we help today?

Okay, so it revolves around 401k plants.

I have like three of them from power companies that I've worked with.

Would you guys suggest to bring them into one, like combine them into one or keep them as is?

And if so, what's the smoothest way to do that?

And is there any like investment firm or company that you would recommend putting them in?

Well, I would roll them all probably into just one IRA.

It's probably the easiest way from a tax position.

And do you have a financial planner that you are working with in general?

No.

No.

Okay.

So if you go to Ramseysolutions.com, look up Smart Vestor Pro.

We have smart vestors all over the country that

do it the Ramsey way, if you will.

And so they'll be able to help you not only just make that move, but hopefully tutor and look at your entire financial picture too and just kind of get an idea.

Because yeah, there's always, you know, when it comes to these kind of things, always the tax implications and everything.

But usually the smartest way is to roll all prior 401ks into an an IRA.

Okay.

Good question.

Perfect.

Thank you so much.

Yep, absolutely.

Yeah, that's one thing, Jade, I feel like I have

learned and become more and more a pro of is getting a financial planner in your corner.

Yeah.

When you're on baby steps four, five, and six, and you are starting this process of building wealth and investing in retirement and all of it, having someone who does this day in and day out be able to look and to help with, you know, and then Tritton, if you're soliciting, you know, put actually investing those things in good gross stock mutual funds and good index funds like whatever that looks like diversifying and being wise about it um you know if you have like one little investment and you want to do it on your own in vanguard or something you know that's a problem that's fine but there's something about someone looking over everything especially once you're debt-free and you're looking to pay off the mortgage and you're far down the baby steps

it is it's so helpful especially as you get i feel like As you get older, especially when you're thinking about maybe I can retire, what do I need to have in place if I think I'm going to retire early?

Like all that stuff.

Yes.

It's so helpful.

Yep, the estate planning and all of it.

So yeah, Tritton, great question.

Hope that helps.

And

yeah, we'll see you guys next hour.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credits Union Studio.

I'm Rachel Cruz, and we are going to the phones.

First up, we have Donna in San Antonio.

Hi, Donna.

Welcome to the show.

Hi, thanks for taking my question.

I appreciate it.

Yes, absolutely.

Okay, so my husband has a student loan that is currently in deferment.

It's been in deferment over 10 years.

Prior to that, it was in default.

It ballooned from $65,000 to $340,000.

Wow.

We got, yeah, pretty scary.

I know, I know.

There was some fraud involved.

We tried to take care of it with some attorneys.

We were not able to get anywhere.

We're stuck with it.

We got married four years ago.

His situation is he's 66, close to retirement.

He doesn't really have any assets, not really,

no savings.

I'm 57.

Probably going to work for another five years.

I've got about $1.4 million in investment assets, which are owned, free, and clear.

We both have a joint account with Charles Schwab, which has about $200,000 in it, but it's fully funded by me.

And then we have two other properties in both of our names.

Couple of questions.

How can I navigate negotiating this balance down for him?

I'm willing to pay up to $100,000 for it.

And how do I protect myself?

Are they private loans or federal loans?

So

they're federal loans.

Gosh.

They were, well, I believe they're federal loans.

See, I've had trouble with this.

They were federal loans, and then they were consolidated.

Okay.

So, and from what I understand, you know, I've been to so many different places, and I keep hitting a brick wall.

It's like nobody can really give me the right answers.

I've been told I can't

negotiate.

If they're federal, you can't negotiate.

If they're private,

you can.

But if the whole lump of them, if that whole lump is federal, you owe what you owe.

So what's his best route?

Does he just keep deferring it?

No.

He will never be able to pay these off.

You know, he'll never be able to pay it.

So tell me about the properties because I'm going to, here, I'll tell you what Rachel and I are going to do, and then we'll explain it.

We're going to approach this as any married couple would who is.

dedicated their lives to each other and has decided that they're one, meaning that they're one in life and money and all of those things.

And then we can go back and trace it back if we need to.

But let's talk about these properties because what I think is somewhere in the assets between the two of you is the money to pay this off.

I'm just,

yeah, there's definitely money.

It's, I built this.

I mean, we've only been married four years.

All of those assets are mine.

I mean, I've done what I needed to do, and I've built this.

How many marriages have you guys had in the past, Donna?

He's been married once before, and so have I.

Okay.

So it's both second marriages.

Okay.

Did you do a prenup at all?

No, we didn't do.

We have our wills, but we didn't do a prenup.

Okay.

Can I ask a little bit about that?

So I'm hearing you talk, and it sounds like you very much want to protect the wealth that you built.

But you didn't sign a prenup, which makes me wonder about that.

Like,

how did you view that?

I didn't realize how,

you know, I don't know.

what can I say?

We're soulmates.

Okay, listen, that's good to know.

We're soulmates, and, you know, he's a wonderful man, and I'm not concerned about really protecting my assets from him.

I'm working for protecting my assets against somebody coming in and swooping in, a lender coming in and taking it.

Got it.

Okay.

So in that case, I loved hearing you say that because it sounded at first like when you said, oh, I'm only willing to put $100,000 towards this, it sounded like you were trying to keep your assets from him right like you didn't want to spend too much on his debt that's the way it sounded at first but now it sounds like that's not the issue and if that's the case can you tell us about these properties because the money might be there to get free and clear of this

it's all real estate basically um and again they're all owned free and clear right how much how much are we into the properties

um

how much am i into the properties probably

you know five or six hundred thousand so tell us properly around five or six hundred tell us property one what's property one worth

um so I've got um

a condo which is probably worth around two hundred thousand okay um I've got another house which is around two hundred and fifty

I've got another condo which is probably also around

two hundred thousand

are they all owned free and clear yes okay

good for you yeah you've done great Donna Donna.

Did you know about his debt going into the marriage?

I didn't.

I knew he,

what happened is his wife, his previous wife, handled all the finances.

She was a stay-at-home.

She did some funky stuff with their finances, and

he thought his student loans were paid off.

He didn't realize until suddenly he didn't get a tax refund one year

that he was in default.

He didn't even know.

Got it.

So it really was like a big shock.

And then, you you know, he just

sometimes men just ignore things.

Yeah.

It was, I think it was too emotionally overwhelming for him.

And he pretty much just put it to the side.

So I knew there was something.

I didn't realize.

How many years did he put it to the side?

Probably about 13 years total.

Okay.

So there's enough of a,

that the shock has worn off, and then we can address reality that he chose not to, though.

Right.

Okay.

Well, now he's.

That's got to bother you, right?

Does that bother you?

Of course it does.

Okay.

Of course it does.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Sure.

But right now I'm committed to the relationship.

I'm committed to my husband.

That's right.

I want to figure out.

And you guys are in your

50.

Did you say 57 and 66?

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He's 66.

I'm 57.

Okay.

And he has, why does he have no,

and what's he been doing?

Like, like with retirement and all that?

He pretty much gave everything to her in the divorce during one of those situations.

It was like no contest, just give her what she wants.

Give her what she wants.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Is he working?

He works for me.

Actually, I have a business.

Okay.

He does work for me.

Okay.

How much is he making?

We just have him making something like around $50,000.

So we've been keeping it low.

You know, we do, we do sort of,

you know, W-2.

Is real estate your business?

Is that your business?

Yeah, okay.

Yeah, yeah.

Um, so there's, I hear two things going on here.

Um,

I think you're committed to this guy.

I, you know, great.

I think that you need to reach over and probably sell one of these condos and then go into the joint funds and pay this thing off.

That's probably the choice that I would make.

I think you guys

are worried that,

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there's a balance of power here that

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And I think that if you don't address certain things, it's going to cause issues down the line.

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Do you see what I'm saying?

I think you need to understand that completely.

You need to sit with somebody and work through this because it almost feels like you're kind of just taking care of this guy.

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You should feel like you're in a marriage where equal people are really contributing, whatever it is they're going to contribute, but you should feel good about it.

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Up next we have Hannah in Missouri.

Hi Hannah.

Welcome to the show.

Hey,

thank you.

Thanks for having me on.

Yes, absolutely.

How can we help today?

So I am recently divorced with two small children.

I'm sorry.

I was married to a guy that's been married three times before.

I was stupid.

I was young.

Clearly paying for it now.

He has wrapped us into an insane amount of debt.

And I can barely keep my head above water.

And I knew divorcing him, he would leave me with everything and not help with the children.

Okay, that's what he did.

Sorry.

It's taken me a while to try to figure out what to do now.

I am a nurse.

I have worked.

I have a pretty good job now.

And our middle is everything

because he's not paying for everything or helping me.

So sorry.

And he's doing it on purpose.

I have $40,000 in business loans from his failed business because he talked me into the world, and he did this to multiple women before.

I have $40,000 in student loans.

I have a $60,000 car and left with from him because he had this lavish lifestyle.

And I just couldn't say no because we gave him what he wanted until he was happy.

He has stopped paying for everything.

I landed a pretty high-paying nursing job, and it's

pretty good.

Right now I'm working two full-time jobs to try to get this stuff paid off while paying for child care not myself.

I live in a small one bedroom with two small children just trying to get everything taken care of and I don't qualify for chapter 13 bankruptcy or seven.

I qualified for 13 but at the highest payment plan which is what I'm doing.

I have probably $200,000 in debt and I don't know if I need to just quit my job and give everything back or what I do.

No, So

this was at this $100,000, the $40,000 loan, the $40,000 of student loans, $60,000 car, that was after it was split amongst you?

That

it was.

And he was court-ordered to pay these and he has not.

And he's

still in your name.

And they're still in your name.

Okay.

So the car, who has possession of the car?

I have the car was awarded to me.

Okay.

And you said

you have to pay 60,000 on it.

If you sold it today, what would you get for it?

33,000.

Okay.

And then the student loans, are those his student loans or are they yours?

Those are mine.

Okay.

Those are mine.

It's about 40,000.

And it's nothing super, you know.

Okay.

And the business loan, if you were to,

if you were to force

a refinance on that to get him off of it, like, is he supposed to be paying that loan, but he's not?

Or was that awarded to you, the $40,000 business loan?

He was.

He was.

Okay.

I can go pay $10,000 to file contempt and then get money out of a guy that he quit his job and he's on military disability.

Well, no, no, no, no.

I'm not saying you're not.

I'm not saying you do that, but I'm saying if he, if the court said that he's supposed to pay the $40,000 loan, but he's not paying it and your name is on it, you should be able to force him to refinance to get your name off of it because so that you can be free and clear.

And what happens when you bring that before the judge?

What happens?

I have to pay another $10,000 to

go forward with it.

He just will not do it.

He won't do anything.

Yeah, no, but the court can force it, though, is what Jade's saying.

I guess I haven't done that.

This is so new.

I've been in a panic.

Yeah, Hannah,

when did all this happen?

March of this year.

Okay, so yeah.

So it's fresh.

Very new.

Yep.

Yeah.

And I say I can't modify anything for at least a year.

So I'm just, he just dumped everything on me in June,

including the children.

Okay.

Yeah.

Well,

whatever the divorce decree says of what debts are his and what debts are yours, and this 40,000 they said is his, correct?

Even though your name's on it, but they, through your divorce, that's his, right?

So,

so yeah, I would, I would contact your, do you have a lawyer still?

I do, but she just wants money.

She's not helpful at all.

Okay, well, maybe let's find someone helpful.

Yeah.

Um, because

$5,000 to take it, to go forward with this, and I could just pay $5,000 to something and pay it off.

So I'm really struggling with that.

Well, if she's not a good, if she's not a good attorney, find a new one.

And that's okay for you to do.

Yeah.

And

yeah, what Rachel said is absolutely the case.

You've got to

go with what the courts have said.

And if he's not uploading, you know, upholding his side, you've got to, you've got to force that into action.

So it sounds like the only ones that truly are your burden is the 100,000, right?

The student loan in the car.

Is that if we're really talking about who owns what, yes?

Yes.

Okay.

So let's focus on that for now because today, in this moment, you can't change the situation of the business loan.

That will come.

But for now, and my guess is that your credit is decimated anyway.

Am I wrong?

Oh, it's just

destroyed.

So then it doesn't matter.

Right now, literally, it doesn't matter, right?

The damage is done.

And find a little bit of freedom in that, honestly, that it can't get, that it can't get worse.

It can't get worse.

Yep.

You know, exactly.

So I love that you're making a lot of money.

You're doing so well on that side.

You're able to, you know, pay for daycare.

So let's reorganize your budget and make it to where where we're accounting for four walls first,

which is you're making your rent, you're making sure that there's transportation, you're making sure there's utilities, you're making sure that you're eating, right?

That's number one.

And then right after that, number five is daycare, right?

Because the kids have to go to daycare so you can work.

Then after that,

if there's still money, now we can start going down priority after priority and making sure that everything is accounted for.

And if there's money, now we can start the debt snowball.

Yes.

So are these the only two debts you have in the whole world?

I have a credit card with like $7,000 on it and I owe $4,000 left to the IRS from ACT taxes and I'm making $1,000 payments on those each month.

Okay, so let's focus on the IRS first.

How about that?

Like make it real small.

How much are you bringing home a month, Hannah?

About $11,000.

$11,000.

Okay.

That's great.

Yeah, you do have a great job.

You know, one of the biggest burdens is this car, the $60,000 car, and

it's teetering right there.

It's unmanageable.

Cause how much is the payment a month?

$1,300.

Okay.

So

honestly,

and I know your credit's horrific because

the easiest way to do it would to go get a, you know, go get a $38,000 loan.

pay off the car and then take $6,000 and go get a crappy car just to get you back and forth to work and to daycare.

Right.

I mean, like, that would be the ideal.

With the credit being shot, that's going to be really difficult.

So I'm wondering if there's a credit union or someone in your town that you can sit down and explain the situation, bring records.

My sister is willing to co-sign or put a car in her name under $30,000 if I just give this Jeep back,

this Wagoneer.

Can I do that?

Or

is it going to be a problem if I just hand the keys to the bank and walk away?

My sister will get a car for me and I'll make those payments.

I didn't know if that was an option or if I'm going to pay for that in the future.

No, because you're still going to be, if you surrender this car, they're going to take it and they're going to auction it.

And whatever the difference is on the $60,000 loan, you're still going to have to pay.

Where did you get the $33,000 number?

Because Wagoneers are.

Yeah, but their value is horrible.

Oh, is it?

I think that's horrible.

Is that Kelly Blue Book?

Kelly Blue Book, yeah.

Okay.

Shoot.

Oh, man.

I didn't know that.

When I see them, I'm always like.

I know.

They listen to Bank of Rock Water Rock.

They're terrible.

Yeah.

They have no value.

When you turn them in, you are absolutely hosed with them at $100,000 and you'll get $20,000 for them.

So one of my biggest goals for you would be

twofold.

The first one, and I think that this car is huge because it's $1,300 a month.

I would exhaust everything

because anything is better than you having.

You owing $38,000 is better than you owing $60,000 basically at just about any term.

100%.

so see, scour and find what you can

to see if you can get any kind of loan to be able to pay off the difference and then get you a crappy car with it.

But hey, Hannah, hold on the line.

Christian's going to pick up and we're going to get you with one of our certified financial counselors to walk with you.

Because, as a single mom juggling all of this,

to have someone sit down and actually run the numbers longer than just eight minutes of what Jade and I can do, we want to give that to you as a gift, Hannah.

And you're doing incredible.

You're an incredible mom.

You're an incredible fighter.

Yes.

And we're here for you, Hannah.

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All right, we have Susan in Arkansas coming up next.

Hi, Susan.

How are you?

Good.

How are you?

We are doing great.

How can we help?

Good.

My husband and I are on, we finished all the baby steps.

My husband's 67.

I'm 61.

He is going to go into a partial retirement next summer.

And

our net worth, including our home, is about $3.5 million.

Oh, wow.

Good for you guys.

But the

2.5 of that is, you know, not the home.

And I guess a million of that is in brokerage.

And then the 1.5 is in RAs.

Okay.

So the question is,

We have a son and daughter-in-law that live about five hours away from us in a very booming market.

And they're just having a growing family.

And it's just so important to us to be close to family.

And we're running up there all the time, staying in hotels and being guests and all that.

And we are really wondering if it would be wise to buy a small house.

Maybe three, we're looking at, there are some starter home neighborhoods.

So like

we could get a brand new house for $350,000,

you know, like 1,600 square feet.

Just something that we could stay in when we go up there.

The thing is, we are going to be probably relocating in about three years to that city.

Oh.

So, but, you know, we have three years to be going back and forth and all that.

We want to be up there more because the babies are babies by now.

Sure.

So,

you know, it's been suggested that we would rent maybe something for a couple of years and then make some big move in three years.

But but it's such a booming market um

that

you know when we're when we're not up there it would just be sitting there we'd be paying rent on it but if we buy we'd be we would be building equity yeah

how far away what is your how far away

it's about five hours away okay and then three what's the three-year mark is that his retirement when he's done fully Yes,

he's got to step down retirement, you know, and so he'll be he'll be needing to be in our town right now.

Well, and you guys can cash flow a 350

home right now, right?

We could, yeah.

So I would probably just do that, Susan.

I would not rent.

No.

I would either just make, just have a little hotel fund and know you'll be staying in a lot of hotels for the next three years, and that's okay.

Or I would just go ahead and buy it.

Buy it.

Yeah.

Because it would be trading one asset for the other, right?

It'd be trading some of our net worth right now.

It would.

would.

But you're going to sell your home in Arkansas to move full-time in three years.

How much is your house in Arkansas worth?

About a million.

Okay, great.

So that's great.

Then I would just

put that in a message.

I've got to say that a house is

about five years old.

It's brand, you know.

But if we wait too long, it's not going to be rent.

It's not going to be as new as it is right now.

It's just three years, Susan.

You're fine.

Okay.

There's nothing.

Yeah.

I'm not concerned about any part of this.

No.

You're not concerned about any of that.

I guess it's just, I love where we are finally, you know,

with the baby steps and all that.

Yeah, I hear what you're saying.

Yeah.

Well, you're not taking any sort of a step backwards if that's the way it feels.

You're just shifting assets from retirement to a home.

And then when you guys sell your million-dollar home in Arkansas in three years, oh my gosh, that's going to be a nice chunk of change.

You'll just put and reinvest back in and keep on moving.

Yeah, and just move up there and

sell the smaller house and just get the forever house, I guess.

Oh,

So you would sell the $350,000 house

family and get a bigger house?

Right.

Okay, then I would not do it.

I'm sorry.

I thought the home you're going to buy now is just the home you guys retire in.

Me too.

No, no.

Why not?

Then I would not.

Then I would not.

No, you do not need to be in real estate for three years.

No.

No.

So I would just either

stay with family, stay in a hotel for it's just three years.

It's just three years.

You can do this.

And then when you guys sell in Arkansas, I would move a million dollars from Arkansas, a million dollars to where you are, and just

break even.

Okay.

So don't know the,

what if we would keep it as a,

I don't know, rental property or whatever.

How long is what's the least amount of time to stay in real estate?

I mean, I'd say five years, probably.

Okay.

Okay.

That's this is a different question.

And I don't, so if you bought the $350,000 house today, you lived in it, and then the plan was when you're ready to live there full-time, that becomes a rental.

And then would you turn around and buy the next house in cash?

Or would you be thinking that there's some sort of mortgage on that?

We wouldn't take the million that we'd sell in our current home, you know, and

put that in another home.

Okay.

In this other location, it's very expensive.

So

I think we would downstock a little bit.

Okay, but you wouldn't take a mortgage at all.

No.

So that, yeah.

So then that's just a question for you guys, Susan.

If you enjoy real estate, do y'all want to be landlords in retirement?

So, you know, that's, I mean,

I come from a real estate family.

I love it.

I think that that's so fine, like diversifying and all of that.

But also, Susan, you're going to get calls.

And,

you know,

John and Sue, who's written from you, their thing is they're, you know, it's broke and you, and then you guys are going to have to coordinate.

I mean, it's a little bit of a job.

Like you got, so it's not an, so it's not one thing about investments that's great is you put it in, you leave it, and there's no no hassle and you get the returns and you live your great life.

Real estate is a fun investment, but it's but for you guys, it's going to be less about building equity in the home itself to you unless you guys want to sell it in 15 years.

But it may just be more of a generational property even.

I don't know.

You want to look long-term at it, but just know that the rental game, I think it's

it's fine, but usually where you make your money is not the rent month to month, it's the equity built in the home

is usually what you what you get in buying.

And usually you try to get a deal, which buying a brand new home wouldn't be.

You're not going to get that.

But you can afford it, so you're fine.

So it would just be a question for you and your husband.

Do y'all want to be landlords in retirement?

So it'd just be, it would be.

You would definitely not do it if we were not going to rent it later.

Yeah.

If we buy it for three years, we would not do that.

Well, I think this plan would cause you to decide to make a different choice on the house that you might purchase short term.

Yeah.

Does that make sense?

Because you're going to want to think about it as the rental later, not as the house that you're enjoying now, if that makes sense.

Yeah.

But if you're not wanting to rent it out and be landlords, you're like, no, that sounds like a headache.

I would not buy until you're there full-time.

Because

a turnaround of buying a brand new home at $350 in three years, we hope it goes up.

I mean, I don't know, but there's always, always that risk that you're maybe buying at the high end.

And then in three years, everything kind of like softens a little bit and you end up losing money on it, which we don't want.

Yeah.

If that is the case, because it is such a short turnaround.

So, yeah.

So, I would either buy the 350 home, knowing I want to keep it and rent it out as a

long-term rental home as a part of your overall estate and then cash flow the main house, or just be patient and wait three years and then just buy the million-dollar home.

And then the 350 stays in the IRA, and you guys just continue on.

Okay, well, that's a, yeah, okay, well, that's a great option.

Wonderful.

Thanks, Susan.

That's a good question.

And what a, what a great, what a great problem to have.

You know?

So sweet.

Just so, yeah, thinking through like the family.

How do I want to spend my 3.5 million?

Yes, I know.

I know.

I mean, well done, Susan.

Well done.

But that is a,

it can be a misnomer.

And I think real estate can feel

like a glamorous, oh my gosh, sophisticated.

Like I'm in real, we're in real estate and we have investments and real estate investing.

You know, it's just, it is a part.

And I think it's a, it can be a great part.

And I think it's like, if you're interested in it and it's what you love,

you know, we're not against it by any means.

But it's not passive.

It's not passive income.

That's right.

Yeah.

And usually with it, what you're

how you're making your money is the equity of the home, of the actual property.

When you sell it, you make a lot.

So that's, that's the key.

It's not always the monthly rentals that's like, you know, that's not the thing that's going to do everything for you.

It's really the equity that you're building in.

But it's a great question, Susan.

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All right, up next we have Josh in Illinois.

Hi, Josh.

Welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you both for your time.

Yes, absolutely.

How can we help today?

Yeah, so we've got open enrollment right around the corner, and I am just trying to get as much counsel as possible when it comes to making a decision on the health care plan.

I have heard a lot of good things said by you and others about health savings accounts, and we do have that option.

We have a high deductible plan that has a health savings account, and I'm just wondering, under what circumstances, if any, would you recommend that someone not opt for such a plan?

What should someone look out for to determine if it's right for them?

Yeah, I love a high deductible plan.

I have a high deductible plan.

I love the HSA for the obvious reasons.

The reason that I chose it, though, was not because of the HSA, although that's a perk.

I chose it because it really is the best health plan.

If you are healthy, you know, you're kind of in that realm where I go, I do my yearly physical, you know, I pop in maybe one other time if, you know, somebody has the flu or you're not in and out of the hospital.

You're not, you know, doing all of these,

doctor visits.

So basically, if you're young and if you're healthy, yeah, a high-deductible plan is good for you.

If you're a person who knows that you have health concerns or your children have health concerns, then you would benefit from a plan that has a lower deductible, right?

Because you know you're going to hit that deductible every year.

And so you don't want it to be astronomical.

But for somebody, if you are healthy, then that's a great thing because the likelihood of you hitting the deductible is really low, if that makes sense.

So are you young and healthy?

healthy?

I would say so, yes.

I don't have many health expenses or anything like that.

And yeah, I guess in my research with this, I'm reading a lot of good things about it.

And I just want to make sure that, oh, you know, the grass doesn't look greener on this other side.

And then I try it out and, you know, I wind up getting burned, which, you know, that is one thing that I had known to look out for.

You know, if you're going to be having constant health problems, I can see how that works.

Or if a wife, you're planning on your wife being pregnant or something like that, then yeah, I would go to a lower deductible.

Does that make sense?

Yes, it does.

And so, yeah, basically, if someone is young and healthy, they're not going to be experiencing a lot of problems, but they're not probably not going to have to meet that deductible anytime soon.

You'd say it's pretty much a wise decision all around.

Yes, I think so.

And that's what I have too.

And the HSA, like Jade said, is a perk that you can use for health expenses.

And then if you get far along enough in the baby steps, you may not even ever have to tap into your HSA, which actually could build almost like another retirement investment vehicle, which is awesome too.

So that's another great perk.

But yeah, so if you, yeah, young and healthy, a high-deductible plan, I think is spot on.

So no, I do not think you'll get burned.

And worst case scenario, if something changes down the road, you can change your plan too.

So that's something to think about.

Yeah, that's a good moment to talk about the HSA because we mention it and a lot of people maybe don't know what it is or how it can help them.

But I actually really like it.

Once you're in baby step four and beyond, if you're beyond the point of, you know, maxing out a 401k or even a Roth, it's a great place to put extra money.

You can invest it.

I think you have access to it at age 62 as a retirement fund.

It's either 62 or 67.

Double check me on that.

Yeah.

But that's a wonderful thing.

And of course, yeah, you can pull money out at any time, tax-free for medical expenses, that sort of thing.

It's growing tax-free.

So it's really a really wonderful deal to do.

Yeah.

So if you have an option for a health savings account at HSA, it's a great one to tap into.

All right, next, let's go to Austin in Fort Myers, Florida.

Hi, Austin.

Hello.

Thank you for taking my call.

Absolutely.

How can we help today?

Yeah, so I feel like I'm drowning here.

I've got about

$74,200 in debt.

I went from making a little over 100 to now I'd be lucky to make 50 a year.

What happened?

Well, my work slowed down.

It's kind of seasonal here from what I found out.

What do you do?

I work as a service advisor at an automotive dealership.

Okay.

And it really slowed down here for a few months, and I wasn't making enough to even

pay our bills, so I left and went to another automotive company.

Turns out it was even worse.

And they took me back.

But when they took me back, they changed the pay plan.

Oh, gosh, like penalize you because you left?

Well, they changed it for everyone.

Not just me.

Oh, okay.

Okay.

I hear you.

Did you know that going in?

The day that I started, I found out.

Oh, my gosh.

Gosh, that's strange.

Yeah.

Was it just an assumption on your part?

Like, I'm just assuming I'll make the same amount.

Yes, yeah.

And I know season's about to pick up here soon.

A lot of the snowbirds start to come back, and that's where a lot of the income comes in.

Sure.

But it hasn't picked up yet either.

Let me go a little deeper on this.

What caused you to choose automotive?

Was that like your field of choice, or did you kind of end up there?

I just kind of ended up there.

I've been in there for seven or eight years now.

Okay.

So

I think that this is a time

to consider the future like as a restart.

Cause I kind of feel like you fell into this job.

It was doing okay for you.

And now it's not.

So maybe it's time to look up and go, okay, like what is, what does Austin want to do?

Like, what do you want to be?

And what do you want to continue to do?

You know, where do you see yourself five years from now?

And what, I mean, if you.

How old are you, Austin?

28.

Okay.

Yeah.

If the world is anything for you, what would you, what would you want it to be?

If you could do anything to make money, what's like a good thing?

I'd love to be a business owner of some sort.

I did open a painting company.

I made about $75 a year, but I need at least around $100 to stay afloat, so that didn't work out.

Stay afloat because of the debt or because of...

Yeah, because of my debt.

Okay, are you married with kids?

Yeah, I'm married three kids.

Three kids, okay.

How long did you do the painting business?

Full-time, about six months.

I did part-time, but I don't really make much off of it if it's part-time.

Well, I think that for six months of business, if you made $79,000, that's not bad.

Yeah.

What if you continued?

I mean, I got to believe if you continued, you would continue to grow that income.

And 80 is not that far away from 100 that you're trying to get to.

When you're the one going out, you know, to quote Dave, going out killing something dragging at home.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, it's 75, not quite 79, but I understand.

But when you're the one out getting a job and those jobs are, you know, 3,000 a pop or whatever it is, that's, there's a lot more hope there that I can get to a number

than just waiting for somebody who's paying me, I don't know, $18 an hour to get there.

Right.

So

I

don't dislike the idea of you keeping the current job that you have now because it is money coming in whilst you start up this painting thing again.

Because if you made $75,000 in six months, you could surely go out and get a couple of clients and get that up and running in the next month or so doing painting jobs on the weekend or whatever your free time is.

Am I wrong?

Well, that $75,000 was the average I was headed towards for the year.

I didn't make the 75 in that six months.

I made about half that.

Okay, so you never got to it.

That was the projection.

Yes, yeah, correct.

Okay, so you were making, you made 35 in six months, which is still it's not a bad side hustle.

So why were you doing that just a little bit?

Were you doing that on the weekends and at night?

No, that was me.

I left the automotive business for about six months to do that.

Gotcha.

So that was me full-time painting myself.

Okay.

Yeah.

So also, what I would do is look at the debt.

I would list out smallest to largest and attack the smallest one.

If there's a car in there that you can sell to loosen up that 74, but I would be honestly doing the car during the day.

I'd be painting in the afternoon.

Yeah, night and afternoon.

And then, you know, maybe look for something else.

Actually, hold on the line, Austin, and we'll give you Ken's book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do, Ken Coleman, just to kind of get those gears turning for you and maybe make some more income.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio.

Going to the phones, we have Sandra in Bowling Green, Kentucky.

Hi, Sandra.

Welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you both for taking my call.

Yes, absolutely.

How can we help?

Well, for the last six years, I have been giving my son money

for various reasons.

First, you know, it was around the COVID shutdown, and

he's not very good with money, and

then he stopped asking me for money.

And then he started again.

So

I've given him like around $35,000.

And I want to stop.

I want him to do better, you know, and I don't know how to do that.

I've tried to talk to him about this, but

I'm his mother.

You know, so I don't know anything or I know everything.

Let's put it that way.

Yes, that's right.

That's right.

Sandra, how are you financially?

I'm good.

I have a good job and I have good savings for my retirement.

Yep.

And how old is he?

47.

47.

Does he have a family?

Yes.

He's divorced, but he has one child at home.

Okay.

And what does he do for a living?

He works in the automotive business, but he works, I'm not sure what they call it, but he it's a press operator, not an operator, but he does the upkeep on the presses.

Okay.

And when he calls for money, is it

what's his, like, what's his reasoning?

Is it a situation that happens?

Is it month to month?

He just needs a little bit to cover the bills.

Like, kind of, what's, what, what, what does he tell you?

Well,

he

had,

he's filed bankruptcy twice.

So this time

he did not have,

they do a reconsolidation.

And this time,

it made him,

he pays so much for that that he can't afford his bills, his food, and his gas.

So that's what he asked me for.

He says, I hate to ask you, but I need money for gas and food.

What's caused him to file bankruptcy?

Is it all consumer debt or is he going into business debt?

No, it's not business debt, but I couldn't tell you exactly what it's for because he doesn't involve me in that.

And that's okay with me.

I don't want to know.

Now, I do know he had some issues a couple of years ago,

and he got sorted out with that, but then he had a lot of things.

Like, like addiction issues?

Yes.

Okay.

Is he living out a sober lifestyle right now?

Yes.

He is.

Okay.

How long ago was the divorce?

About seven years ago.

Okay.

Okay.

And were the bankruptcies after the divorce?

Yes.

Okay.

Were they mostly...

First one was after the first divorce and the second one was after the second divorce.

Oh, he's been divorced twice.

That's right.

I forgot.

Okay.

Oh, man.

Boy, oh, boy.

And can I, I'm just trying, what I'm trying to understand about him is, is he still out of control, or is he a person who was out of control and has done some work to start getting his life back on track?

I don't know.

I can't talk to him about these things.

It's very difficult to bring it up.

For you or for him or for both

both well if i i'm i'm fearful to bring it up because he

well i haven't brought it up so i don't know i i'm fearful about what he might it's going to pain you to hear it yes it's going to pain me of course uh-huh i think that if he were

i think that if he were truly in a place where

he's on the other side of this behavior and he's really doing the work to be well, I think he would be initiating those conversations with you saying,

here's where I've been, here's where I am now.

Great point.

And

this is a way that if you wanted to support me, you could, right?

I think that he would have the maturity to do that since it sounds like he's not.

I'm not failing.

It still feels like a little bit of all over the place.

And that's the sad reality, Sandra.

Yeah, of what you're, you're hitting that wall over and over again of the reality that you can't change people.

You could give him $135,000

and it's not going to help him.

I understand.

And so the hard thing is, too, is

enablers are always the kindest

people,

you know, and so that's your heart, Sandra.

And it's your son.

You know, Jade and I both have sons.

And I'm like, I, you do.

You, you want, you don't want your kids to suffer.

You want to be able to help them.

And I think the question is, how can I help him the best?

And throwing money at a situation

over and over again because he's not changing his habits, I think is a difficult reality, but it is a reality.

And again, I mean, you go to the extreme and we don't want to see our family members on the street.

Right.

I mean, like, so like, like, there's, there is a natural instinct that kicks in and that and that boundary can be drawn, you know, however you want it to be, Sandra.

But I think at the end of the day, knowing as his mom and as painful as the decisions that he's made in his life are,

you can't change that until he chooses to change.

And so what you could say, Jade, I think, was on a really great track mentally as you're talking through it, Jade, because if

he comes to you and maybe you can even say it to him, right?

Like you guys can have this conversation of, I want to see healing in your life.

I want to see change.

And if you save up X amount, maybe Sandra, you could maybe match that amount, right?

Or I don't know what it looks like, but at least he's on a road to self-sufficiency because that's the best thing for him.

And if you can help him get there because he is making positive progress, then maybe you can.

But just throwing money at a situation when there's no change, that's hopeless.

So I agree.

Yeah.

This is a tough situation no matter how you slice it.

And I think for you for the short term, yeah, I think maybe the first thing you do is you maybe you open up those lines of communication and then you can better assess the situation.

But it sounds like now is not the time to give him money.

Right, but he's his business, the business that he works at is slowing down.

So he was off last week for one day.

Okay, well, then he needs to, there's never been a good time for the last five years.

Yeah, then he needs to go get a job.

He needs to go work at Target or something.

But if you give him the money, he won't.

Right.

Yeah,

he's got to figure out how to self-sustain as a 47-year-old, you know?

He's going to have to learn that at some point.

And

that's a hard reality.

How old's the kid?

She should be 15 in January.

Okay.

Now, I would be concerned about her.

If you're looking and seeing that maybe she doesn't have some of the things that she needs in a serious way, I might step in for some things.

to help with her.

And I would do that in a very protected way.

Does that make sense?

Like

if you look over and realize, oh my gosh, they don't have, like, the heat's not on or something like that, I might reach over and pay that, that, you know, either have her come stay with me or just pay the bill directly.

Something like that, I could see

wanting to help a minor.

Yes, for sure.

That there's, yes, a vulnerable child in the mix.

And yeah, and she doesn't need to suffer because of his decisions if you are able to help in that way.

But setting boundaries, it can feel so unloving, but it may be one of the most loving things you can do, Sandra, for him.

And especially since you're wanting to stop.

You feel it in your soul that this is not helping a situation.

And it's going to be so hard, and there may be some verbal backlash.

But man,

if you hold that strong and hold that steady, I think there's a level of wisdom and clarity that comes with that when you remove yourself from a situation.

Many of you listen to the Ramsey show because you're sick and tired of getting nowhere with your money.

You work too hard to live paycheck to paycheck with no money in the bank.

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Okay, today's question comes from Madison in Colorado.

She says, my husband and I just celebrated our third anniversary.

We're debt-free and currently working on baby step three.

We both work full-time and after saving our emergency

fund, the plan is to save as much as possible before our first child is born.

My husband is changing careers and wants to wait a few months until he's settled into his new career with a better paying job so he feels more confident in providing for our future family.

I know you tell people not to wait until everything is perfect to start a family.

I absolutely agree with that, but I also agree with my husband that it's important to have more financial stability before we start trying.

I've never met a man who wants children more than my husband and both of us feel sad and stressed about waiting.

I would love your advice on this.

Okay, I personally love this question.

First off, let me just say it is 100% your choice.

Like I can tell you my thoughts, but it's your choice.

It's your family.

It's your life.

I don't think there's anything wrong with family planning.

And this is kind of part of that, right?

You're saying, here's what we want our life to look like.

And the biggest part of that is whether you both agree on it.

And I'm saying that my husband and I, we made the decision that we wanted certain things in place before we started a family.

And that was something that we agreed on.

And there were moments where I was like, do I still, it was like something we had to check back in on, right?

Because for us, the idea was, hey, we'll pay off debt and then we'll start a family.

But we also knew that that was a a long journey to pay off the debt so it was kind of like checking back in like are we still good on this because it's three years in we still good you know so if you both agree and you both like the idea of whatever that is him making x amount of dollars or whatever that goal is then that's fine for now but maybe you set it up and say okay like Every six months, we're just going to revisit this.

I was an asterisk.

Like it could change.

Yes.

Life can always change.

It can.

And your desire for when a baby comes and when you want to start changes too.

I know it did for us.

I thought we were going to wait a little bit longer.

And then I remember being like, I think I'm ready now.

You're ready sooner.

So yeah, that.

And then I would also say to remember, you know, once you get pregnant, there's still nine months.

So he's wanting to change jobs now and wait a few months.

Well, that's you guys could be doing it simultaneously as well.

So just remember that.

So yeah, we always say around here, don't feel like you have to have, you have to have a certain financial benchmark.

Like we do not say you have to be debt-free before you start a a family, or you have to have

a baby when you want to have a baby, like what Jade said earlier.

But if you personally say, no, we want to wait because of a timeframe, because of financial goal, if that's what you want, that's great.

That's what you guys are choosing as a couple and as a family.

Now, there is one thing I will say about what you wrote, Madison.

And I'll say this is giving me a little bit of like a,

I don't know what.

The fact that you said we both feel sad and stressed about waiting, that's the part to me that I'm like,

I don't know about that because for me, it gave me more peace to wait because I was like, I feel better waiting until I'm in a better spot.

I feel more stressed about if I were to get pregnant today.

So the fact that your emotions, and don't get me wrong, sometimes our emotions don't line up with what we're doing in a moment, but for something like this, I kind of feel like they should.

Yeah, listen to what you're desiring.

Yeah.

And the fact is what you're desiring is okay to desire it and actually happen.

Yes.

So you're not doing anything wrong if you guys choose to move forward.

I mean, you guys are debt-free.

It's an emergency fund.

Like, you're fine.

You're fine.

I promise you are fine.

And you will figure it out.

People do it all the time.

All the time.

Yeah.

So the fact that I think you're exactly right, Jay, the fact that you wrote that last sentence.

Uh-huh.

You should feel good about the decisions you're making.

And if you're not feeling good, make a different decision.

So it's a good question that we get that, we get that question a lot about, you know, when do we get married?

When do we have a baby?

When do we start a family?

All of it.

I love talking about it with George Camill because he's always like my practical friend.

Cause he's like, I mean, you can have a baby whenever, but it sure is nice to have a baby when there's no debt.

I get that.

I get that.

Come on.

But also, most people would say they don't look back and think, oh my gosh, I wish we had waited.

You know what I mean?

Like, you know, usually people are like, we wish we had them sooner now that we know what we know kind of thing.

So, and your situation, I'm like, you're, if there were a crazy situation, yours is not it.

That's what I mean.

Like, you're not like, I'm in bankruptcy and we have nine.

I want, we have nine nine kids and we want to have a tip.

I'd be like, what's wrong with you?

Totally, totally.

Oh, so good.

All right.

Let's go to the phones.

We'll go to Jessica in South Carolina.

Hi, Jessica.

Hi.

How are y'all?

We are doing great.

How can we help today?

So I have a

decision to make.

Basically, our baby is coming February 6th.

Another baby question.

This is great.

We were just talking about this.

Absolutely.

I know.

And I'm like,

I feel like y'all kind of answered my question a little bit, but I don't know.

Our situation is a little bit different.

Yeah, tell us.

Yeah, so we have a baby coming February 6th.

And I think it's smart for us to just go ahead.

By that time, we should have enough money in our savings account to actually pay off all of our debt and we'd be completely debt-free.

Awesome.

Amazing.

But we wouldn't have nothing in our savings and we have a new baby.

So I don't know if it's smart to do that or I have no idea.

Yes.

Well, what we always say is while you're doing the baby steps, and if you are on baby step two and you get pregnant, you go into stork mode, meaning you just pile up a bunch of money.

You just save, save, save, just pay minimum payments, stay current on everything and just save money.

And then when baby comes and mom is good, baby's good, you go right back to the baby steps.

And so that's what you guys did, Jessica, which is amazing.

Like you literally are the textbook example of, okay, we're going to save and save and save.

And then once we have have the baby, we have enough money to become debt-free.

Yeah.

$8,000.

Yeah.

So how much money do you got?

How much will you make the first month the baby's here?

So let's say you took everything out and you paid off all your debt.

I would still want you to leave $1,000 for an emergency fund.

But let's just say you pay off all your debt.

You have your $1,000.

How much money will be coming in income-wise that first month?

The first month's probably about $10,000.

Okay.

Yeah, because I would still be getting paid from my gal, my, my pay.

Okay.

So if you had, and my husband.

So, Jessica, if you had no debt, okay, no debt, no payments, but you had to pay the rent or the mortgage, the lights, utilities, all of that.

If you had to pay your necessities, how much would be left in your budget?

Cable, all that, probably about two, oh, $2,000 is our monthly expenses because we paid off our house.

Oh, my gosh.

I know.

Jessica.

Oh, wow.

Okay.

So you would have $8,000 month one after the debts paid off.

So you're fine.

Yeah, I'm trying to tell my husband, but I don't know.

Well, even if you had to wait two weeks or get the paycheck and then pay off the debt,

you're still going to be plus, yeah, you're going to be positive $8,000.

Even if you wait two weeks to pay off the debt till the paycheck hits, you can do that.

But how amazing, Jessica.

Congratulations.

How did y'all do that?

How did y'all pay off the house?

So, yeah, it was just every extra money.

I mean, I made commission most of my

young life work.

Well, you know, I'm 30 now, but most of my life, my job was just making commission.

And

all that extra commission, you get those good checks, I just put it on the house.

Yes.

You know, I didn't, you know, spend

on that.

Awesome.

Good for you guys.

Oh, my gosh.

Yeah.

So, yeah, if you wanted to hold your breath for 15 days till the next paycheck hits and then you have your eight extra thousand dollars,

you can do that.

If that's, if that, if you got a new baby and you, I get that.

If If you are postpartum, you're three weeks in, sleep deprived, and you want to wait one paycheck before you pay off the debt.

I am okay with that.

Wow.

Okay.

Just kind of hold the money a little bit.

And so, yeah, if you want to wait a month, that's fine.

Yes.

Yeah.

You, you guys are in a completely fine position.

So, how much debt will you be paying off?

So, we have 45

left, and that's a car, and that's also my husband's school.

So,

and what's the house worth?

Our house is worth $220,000.

Girlfriend, that's what I'm talking about.

Jessica, well done.

Congratulations.

And with the baby, oh my gosh, having a new baby and all of this.

You guys are just, you're killing it.

And you're going to have so much peace.

Like, what a beautiful thing.

What a beautiful way to set up your life with these decisions.

You were making insane money in your 20s and you didn't do the insane stuff.

You like literally did the boring stuff and paid off the mortgage.

And now you get to choose if you want to stay home.

I mean, there's so many.

Yeah, so many choices and options ahead, Jessica.

So So we are, we're cheering on you guys.

Congratulations.

Listen, your home is your most expensive asset, and now you're ready to sell fast and for a lot of money.

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That's ramseysolutions.com slash agent.

Up next we have Jocelyn in Dayton, Ohio.

Hi Jocelyn, welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you for having me.

Yes, absolutely.

How can we help today?

So

I made this huge mistake

about, I think it was like almost, it was like four and a half years ago.

I was with this guy and

I took out loans for him because he didn't have good credit.

So I took out, I know.

So I took out a business credit card,

which was one loan.

And then I took out a personal loan, which he used to buy like vehicles for his business.

And then I also took out a golf cart loan.

Okay.

So fast forward, and then two years, he was paying everything at the time when we were together, but it was always minimum payment.

So in reality, it probably didn't really pay that much sure so then so then two years ago we split up and he promised me like he would pay pay me monthly we got a new girlfriend and then of course you know he stopped paying me

so when I left him it was at like it was between fifty to sixty thousand dollars that I owed

And I've gotten it down to twenty thousand.

Oh, good.

Jeez.

Thanks.

Thanks.

So I sacrificed by moving him back home, like in with my parents.

And then I just worked a lot.

I'm a nurse, so I'm kind of lucky there.

I can find a good job.

Yeah.

So I was always stuck between like filing bankruptcy or paying it off.

So obviously bankruptcy is not an option.

But I always just wonder like if I should try to go back and sue him to get the money.

People always tell me to, but when I've looked into it, it's kind of like a gray area because

if your name's on it.

I'm sorry.

Because if your name's on the loan.

Yeah.

There's kind of a little bit of a dead end, unless there was some kind of contract that you guys had, any type of legal documents.

Did he?

No, no, there was no legal documents.

Like, I have text messages, of course, where he'll be like, oh, I'm going to pay you.

Stuff like that, but nothing legal documents.

I mean,

you could get a consultation to see,

you know, but I really think that for you, you're so close to being done.

You've got 20,000 to go,

and you could could just wash your hands of this entire situation the cars that he bought with the loan

were they were the cars under his name yeah they were under his name and the in the golf cart it was really nice and he has all of it whoever's listening to this don't make those

does he have does he have everything he has the golf cart he has cars he has the cars um

the the the cars he bought with like cash they were like they were like vans for his trucking company

and they ended up wrecked so that could have been fine um the this is a disaster the golf car well luckily and then the golf cart the golf cart um is is is in his name also so i tried to call it bank because the loan's in my name but and this all happened in florida in the state of florida whoever's name is in the title it doesn't matter who the loan is the person in the title owns it that's right yeah that's right um

Yeah, I mean, it seems like there's nothing to even try to seize if you wanted to ask him and say hey i buy i i bought these cars the least you could do is send me one so i can sell it and get some of this money right but i i just

i'm it sounds like that's not even a thing

right i mean he's he's he's a wall right yeah yeah is he worth anything like if like let's just say perfect world you find um an attorney and they're like oh yeah if you have text messages we can prove this and take this to court and you can get your money back let's say they could who does he have any money i mean

so that's the other thing is is like because i was looking into it i'm like

i i mean i'm sure i'm sure he has money but i don't know if like he would actually pay me because when i look at online when they go to court

like if they don't pay you they don't pay you it's not i don't know i don't think this guy has yeah yeah i think this guy is using women and i don't think he has and a part of me too jocelyn would say even if you even if that did happen and he did say i'll make you monthly payments he may be attached to you for the next eight years you know what i mean and there's a part of the freedom of like

you just want, it's a reminder every month that even if you're getting money from them, it's still like, I'm a nurse and I can take care of myself.

And like, I don't even want to be attached to this anymore.

And so,

yeah, we kind of just, they coined the phrase stupid tax here on the show of just things that we do, all of us do it, right?

I know.

Maybe at different dollar amounts and everything in different situations where you look back and you think that was so stupid.

And now I'm paying for it.

And

I think, yeah, I think that's the situation.

I mean, that's what's so hard, Jocelyn, is now if he was a good guy, he could say, hey, let's refinance and I'll put my name on the loans and get your name off of it, all of it.

But he's just like disappeared into the winds.

I mean, it's unbelievable.

Jocelyn, I hope that you,

I really hope that you allow this.

Like,

as this lives in your mind, make sure you write the right story about it.

Like, I don't want you to look at this and be like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I did this terrible thing.

I was so stupid.

I was so, I hope that you write this in your brain as this guy tried to break me, but i paid off every dime of this because i'm awesome and flip the narrative yes please do because so many people would have just

i don't know let that debt follow them for the rest of their life never fix it wait on someone else come fix it for them and the fact that you paid off 30 000 yeah

so quickly and that you're like listen i'll just do the rest of it i think that that's incredible so keep going Thank you.

Please.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Oh.

Well, and I think like you said, Jocelyn, for everyone out there,

it's a good, it's a good learning, right?

Because you do.

You get sucked into a situation and you think, and they're believable.

That's the other thing.

It's like, you know, you're not stupid, Jocelyn.

Obviously, you're a very smart woman.

And, you know, you get caught in a certain situation with a certain guy who persuades you in a certain way.

And you think, well, sure.

You know what I mean?

Like, good looking.

It is what it is.

So, but yep, I'm proud of you for, yeah.

paying it off and going forward with it, just like Jade said.

All right, let's go to Evan in Richmond, Virginia.

Hi, Evan.

Welcome to the show.

Hey, y'all.

I hope you guys are doing good today.

We are, thank you.

Of course.

My question is: so I'm a college student here at Liberty University.

I'm working to be a corporate pilot.

I also work part-time as a server.

I've got about $4,000 in debt.

I've got about $300 to my name.

My car has needed countless repairs over the last two years that I've owned it.

And one of those repairs was about $4,000 to fix a transmission that blew.

Obviously, as a college student, I didn't have $4,000.

So my dad was gracious enough to help me with that.

But in doing that, I've owed him about $200 a month for insurance as well as to pay that back.

I've asked him if I could pay the rest of that after graduation.

I'm able to work full-time, but he's kind of just said no.

And I've paid about one quarter of it, so a little over a grand.

he helps me with groceries sometimes and i'm very grateful for that but i'm just kind of a little bit stuck i want to be able to have an emergency fund save up some money i want to save up for a ring for my girlfriend at some point and just be able to stand on my own without stressing about finances especially in college because my schedule is a little bit crazy especially with being a pilot yeah um so i'm just trying to figure out what I should do in my situation.

Yeah, what's the $4,000 in debt?

Is that student loans?

Say that one more time.

The $4,000, is that the transmission debt?

Or was that the, you said you're $4,000 in debt or was that student loans?

So $3,000 of that is the transmission, and then another $1,000 of it is on a credit card, which I used for more expenses for the car that I paid for on my own.

Okay, I got you.

I got you.

And how old are you?

So I'm 21.

I'm a senior here at Liberty.

Okay.

There's part of this, I mean, I'm going to be honest with you.

When I was in college, yeah, my parents were still helping me out out with certain things that popped up.

And then there was a point where it's like, okay, you're graduated.

You're making your own money.

You're out there.

And then it was on me.

So

I,

yes, you need some breathing room.

What can you let go?

Like, what can you pull back on to kind of give yourself a moment to just

chill for a second?

Because it's like, I feel like you're trying to solve all these problems at once.

And I don't know that you can.

Is the pilot thing part of the Liberty degree or is that something totally separate?

And then you've got the server deal.

Yeah.

So being a pilot, that's my degree here at Liberty.

So you mean just like pull back in like my spending?

Oh, yeah.

Well, you've got to.

I don't think now's the time to tackle debt is what you're asking.

I think now's the time to focus on your education, pay the minimum payments for now.

You've got a little bit to go.

I think you need to focus on graduating and get out of here, keep things at a level, and then you can tackle that debt when you get out and start working yeah minimum payments stay current on everything but i would just do that yep just like what jade said and then when you get out and actually have a full-time job then attack the debt

Our scripture of the day comes from John 10, 10.

The thief comes only to steal and destroy.

I have come that they may have life and have it to the full.

John Collins said, the people who don't have a great life are the ones who settle for a good life.

Wow.

There you go.

All right.

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So we are here to make the latest trends easy to understand.

So median home prices dipped a little bit last month to about $426,000 and a typical season shift as we head into the fall.

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All right.

Up next we have,

is it Jima?

Jimma?

Jimma in LA.

Hey, welcome to the show.

Hi there.

How are you?

We're doing great.

How can we help today?

So I'm in this unique situation where my employer will contribute 15% of my salary into a traditional 401k

without me having to put any in.

So my question for you is when I'm done with baby step three,

and I do have a small, like a separate Roth IRA, should I contribute

the 15% retirement into the Roth or should I contribute it into the employer sponsored 401k?

Oh, wow.

I, number one, awesome.

That's amazing.

Yeah.

How incredible.

So there's a couple of ways to think about this.

I'll tell you what my brain goes to, Rachel.

You tell me.

Yep.

My brain kind of thinks, number one, the 15%, it's great to get in the rhythm of doing that because if you ever move from this job, it's great to kind of set that habit of I put X amount of my income into retirement.

So I do, even though 15% is really awesome, I do want you to have your own skin in this game.

And so part of me would treat it maybe like a pension where I'm thinking of that as half

and then I'm doing the other half and I do it into a Roth.

That's where my mind goes.

What would you do?

Yeah.

So

you're, there's no matching at the company, correct?

I mean, they're just, they're just putting 15%.

So yeah, so our normals formula is match beats Roth beats traditional.

So since there is no match,

I would, what Jade said, I would go to the Roth and I would put probably, I would put 15% of your income team.

Yeah, I would think I would do the full 15 because the 15 going into the IRA, do you have control over where that money's going that your employer's matching?

So that's good.

So that's that's a great thing that you have the control.

So yeah, I think I probably would just take that 15 that they're giving me as gravy.

We're all gravy.

And I think I would go 15%

of your income into retirement and I would start with the Roth

and you can put up to, what is it this year?

Eight

8,000.

8,000, I think.

Yeah.

So I would go ahead and max out that Roth

and then

go back to your 401k at work to finish out your 15%.

So I think that's what I would do.

So you would put like 7.5%

in the personal Roth and then the other 7.5% into traditional Rothschild.

Well, it depends on how much you're investing.

So it's 15% of your income.

So I don't know what 8,000 of your income, what percentage that would be.

Oh, I get you.

I understand what you're saying.

Yeah.

So I would go ahead and just like max it out.

And if you have any percentages of that 15% left, I would go back to the 401k and put the money in there.

Okay.

All right.

Well, thank you so much.

Yep, absolutely.

Gosh, that's a great

benefit.

Oh my gosh, not even having to put any money in, and they're just doing it.

That's great.

All right.

Let's go to Megan in New Haven.

Hi, Megan.

Welcome to the show.

Hey, thank you so much for taking my call.

Yes, you are welcome.

How can we help today?

All right.

Well, a huge fan.

Love the baby steps.

Always trying to get better.

But anyway, so I'm calling today.

I'm a single mom by choice, so I had my daughter on my own.

I'm 43.

She's two.

I'm on baby steps four, five, and six.

I've got my fully funded emergency fund, no debt, minus my house.

I do my, you know, 15% into retirement, and I am a teacher, so

I don't have any kind of match or anything like that, but, you know, doing the best that I can.

I own my home.

It's worth about $425,000 and I still owe $218,000.

Good for you.

I'm a teacher.

Like I said, I make about $100,000 a year.

So after taxes and insurance, I bring home about $4,800 a month.

So basically, you know, it's like I have enough.

The budget is tight, but I have enough.

It's just that I really want to change my family tree.

I grew up with

a family, incredibly loving, wonderful family who provided for myself, my sister, but zero financial literacy.

I feel like I've had to teach myself everything.

And like I said, I'm still learning.

But I really want to set my daughter up for success.

I learned, you know, I listened a lot about your

trying not to go into debt for school, things like that.

So,

you know, as a single person, I know that, like, Dave, talks a lot about, you know, just the fact that if you are in a partnership, you're clearly going to make,

you know, growth more quickly than if you're single.

But I know that it's not impossible.

Right.

My income is at the top, basically.

So I do have

a little bit of a side hustle of conducting, coral conducting, and then I have

the opportunity to have a tenant.

My father was living with us and was for the last couple years and was helping financially a little bit.

He passed away on Memorial Day.

So

yeah, it's been a big loss, miss him a lot.

But with

the tenant situation, you know, and the side hustle, I could probably bring in about $120,000 a year.

That's great.

Total.

Total.

Yeah.

Do you want to do that?

Do you want to have a tenant?

Is it like an attached

apartment type situation?

Or are they like in the house with you?

So it would be technically in the house, but like we would, well, not in the house.

It would be like a basement, walk-in basement situation.

Do you want to do that?

Because you're on baby steps four, five, and six.

I mean, the hustle is great, but it's not absolutely necessary unless you're like, oh, no,

I want to keep.

I'm okay with it.

Okay, great.

I mean, obviously it's.

It's got to be the right fit.

Yeah.

It's small, so it would probably be great for like an older single person or or doesn't have to be an older person, but I was thinking someone with a calm.

Well, someone that you feel comfortable with living in such a close proximity to you and your child.

Exactly.

Yeah.

So

what are you concerned about?

Well, like I said, it's just, so one thing is,

you know, in terms of like my savings,

as a teacher, I'll have my pension.

And if I work as many years as I plan to, which I think I still have another 18 years or something, but I can collect 75%

of my top three years.

So one concern I have is that I'm kind of at the top right now with my page.

Hey, Megan, we're running out of time.

We got about 30 seconds.

What's the one question we can help you with?

Okay.

So

can I still become a baby steps millionaire,

help my daughter pay?

Oh, yeah.

Here you are.

Yeah.

Well, Megan, I mean, honestly, the fact that you are so so far ahead in the baby steps, the best way to help your daughter is showing the example of what to do.

And you are doing that so beautifully, so beautifully.

So your example, first and foremost, is everything.

And then number two, you just keep working.

I mean, you have 200 left on the house.

Yeah.

You're making some, you know, great money.

120.

Yeah.

And then if you're going to do this extra side hustle, you'll be able to pay it down even faster, even with the tenant.

So I think honestly, you just kind of keep moving through it.

And

it may look different paces for different people depending on their income but you're doing um yeah exactly what you should be doing megan i mean honestly i want you to be proud of yourself because you're absolutely incredible so keep it up so yes you can become a baby steps billionaires um as a single mom well that's it for today everyone and remember there's ultimately one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace christ jesus

no matter what