Quit Blaming Your Past And Take Control Of Your Money

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Normal is broke, and common sense is weird.

So, we're here to help you transform your life from the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio.

This is the Ramsey Show.

Ken Coleman, number one best-selling author, host of the breakaway hit on Ramsey Network called Front Row Seat.

He is my co-host today.

Open phones at 888-825-5225.

So you guys watching Front Row Seat and pulling it up,

Ken, you did a really cool recording yesterday.

They're not going to want to miss.

My good friend Willie was here.

Willie Robertson of Duck Dynasty fame in town.

It was so fun.

He's in town to hang with you, apparently.

Yeah, we had dinner with Pat last night.

That's right.

So fun.

He's become a close friend over the last several years.

But I think on front row seat, you guys are going to be

very entertaining.

Entertaining.

Yeah, we got some fun.

That's a fun story.

Everything you have to do with Willie is always entertaining.

That's right.

Dinner with Willie is entertaining.

I surprised him with a photo.

That's all we'll say.

Gave him an envelope, told him to open it.

And we legitimately, we did some great research.

He was delighted and surprised.

Let's put it this way: it was from Willie's athletic past.

And what people don't realize is that Willie's a sneaky good athlete, according to his brother Jace.

And, you know, Willie can hit the cover off a golf ball.

He can knock it a mile.

300-yard drives.

It's nuts.

Yeah, it's nuts.

And that always surprised me, too.

Yeah.

Because, I mean, usually guys wearing camo don't hit a golf ball that far.

But yeah, just what do I know?

But he can.

He's serious.

Yeah.

And we bit competitive, too.

Little chirpy on the golf course.

I imagine he can

get under somebody's skin.

I hit the ground on a warm-up swing and he goes, hey, Ramsey, 811, call for your dig.

So, ouch.

It's four and a half hours of that.

I'm just saying.

So there you go.

Hey, it's going to be great.

Check it out.

Willie Robinson coming up in the next few weeks.

It'll drop on front row seat recorded yesterday.

Joe is in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

Hi, Joe.

How are you?

Hey, I'm doing well, guys.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

Well,

recently,

my girlfriend and I have been talking about getting married.

And

I had always known that there was a discrepancy between me having some debt and her having some money.

And I've always been trying to postpone getting married because I was trying to take care of the things on my end.

And

so recently,

I really got into you guys and started digging into numbers and found out what I really owed.

Kind of spooked me a little bit.

It wasn't quite as a lot more than I thought it was.

How much?

$230,000.

On what, dude?

Most of it is in student loans.

You got 180 of it in student loans.

You a doctor or a lawyer?

Soon to be a doctor, but not a medical one.

So I worked through an MBA and a PhD, business PhD, because I wanted to go and teach.

Okay.

And

coach golf in college.

So

now we're in this situation and we're starting to think about it more.

And she's been asking me a lot of questions about, I used to be a financial advisor.

She's been asking me a lot of questions about stuff she should invest in.

And I just told her, like, she needs to look into the things that you guys have.

I suggested that she go and talk to

somebody else.

Things have changed, laws have changed, and obviously I haven't managed money as well as I would have

would like before I start giving people advice.

What's the other $50,000 in debt?

It's a car, a little bit of credit cards.

How much do you owe on the car?

The car I owe $34,000 on.

Okay.

And what do you do for a living?

You're working on your PhD, and that's your job now?

No, no.

I work in retail.

I manage a bunch of retail stores.

And what's your income?

$120 is my salary.

Okay.

So you've been asleep at the wheel for quite a while and just in the last few weeks woke up.

Yes, sir.

Okay.

All right.

I'm just making sure I'm getting the full picture here.

Okay.

Cool.

Yeah, and so she's in she's in a really good spot.

I've never really known what she's had.

I've never really been interested in it.

But since she's been asking me all these questions lately, she was asking some questions about Roth versus,

you know, just a regular 401k.

And we've been talking through that stuff.

And

one day she was looking through some stuff and I, you know, she was like, well, this is what I have invested in this and that.

And I was like, wow, this is just, it's really cool.

You put yourself in a good position.

I mean, she's got a net worth of about a million dollars.

And she's not quite 40 yet.

And she's making, you know, about 160 a year as well.

So we've been talking and I just was like, hey, you know, like, what do do you want to do about this?

Because I don't, I hope that we're together forever.

I don't ever want to put her in a bad position.

I love the woman.

I'm just trying to figure out, like, should we consider if we do get married at Prenup or should I just wait until I get this debt paid off?

That's kind of what my question is.

I'm trying to figure out what's the best thing to do to protect her.

What's her take?

What's her take on this?

Well, I mean,

we just started talking about this.

Yeah, but what did she say?

Well, she just said she's like, I understand that

it may take you a little while to be able to pay this stuff off.

And so if it takes a while and we have to wait, then that's fine.

But that's really what

her whole thing on that.

I never just said, like, do you want to wait until I get this paid off?

Or do you want to try to do it a separate way?

You know, I asked her, like,

should we consider potentially doing it and get a prenup?

And she was like, well, I never really considered that.

I never even thought of it before.

And I'm like, I know.

And again, I hope it works out, but if some crazy reason it doesn't, I would hate for like, you know, to feel like I'm supposed to get half of your stuff when I'm coming in with nothing and you're coming in with a lot.

So

we're going to be able to do that.

Which are for poor in sickness and in health.

If you're going to

share a bed and a life together for the next 50 years,

you're going to share assets and liabilities for the next 50 years.

If you're going to have a high quality marriage and a high probability of building wealth.

Now, I'm assuming as a professor with a PhD, when will you complete your PhD?

I'll have another year, probably a year, not a year, well, it depends on how long the dissertation takes, but probably about a year and a half left.

Okay.

And you'll be making at least what you're making now as a college professor after that, right?

Certainly.

And I have flexibility within my schedule that I thought I'd be able to actually do both because there's a lot of options online to be able to teach courses that way.

So, your income could go up substantially then.

Certainly.

At that point, I would expect it to go up at least 100.

All right.

We have never told in the 30 years plus we've been on the air, told someone to not have a baby because of debt or to not get married because of debt.

We have told people to not get married if you can't get aligned on how we feel about life, careers, saving, debt, and so forth.

And so,

if I'm her, what scares me more than the debt is that you just now woke up

and you were asleep.

That scares me more than the debt.

If you told me I've been scratching and clawing at this and beating on it for seven months and I'm getting there and I've already paid off 50,000.

I'm very problem aware and the problem's in my mirror.

I'd be a lot more comfortable if I'm her and no prenup is needed.

But a prenup's not going to help.

In this case, there's not enough differences to do it.

So, I think when you guys get comfortable with each other's values and where you're going enough to get married, after you get back from the honeymoon, she writes checks and we pay off all your debt.

But your debt should be largely gone by then because it's going to take a little while for you to prove to her that you're awake.

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Thank you for joining us, America.

We're glad you're here.

Jean is in Savannah, Georgia.

Hi, Gene.

How are you?

I'm good.

How are you?

Better than we deserve.

How can we help?

Okay, so this is a little bit of a crazy story, but I'll try to make it as easy to follow.

10 years ago, my father-in-law passed away.

He didn't have a will, but we were able to sell his property with an affidavit of heirship and a deed without warranty.

So we sold the house to an old family friend.

This married couple, in the last 10 years, has divorced.

The wife moved on.

The husband stayed in the house.

He passed away early last year.

Friday night, we all started receiving phone calls that this property was about to be foreclosed on for unpaid property tax.

And we all wondered what that had to do with us.

Well, they never filed the deed.

So the house is still technically under my father-in-law's name.

So

we've tracked down the ex-wife.

She doesn't want anything to do with the property.

She's happy to sign the property over to my husband and my sister-in-law, the only two kids of my father-in-law.

And same thing with my mother-in-law.

They were divorced.

She doesn't want anything to do with the house.

So everybody's on board that it just goes to my husband and my sister-in-law.

So

we are planning on selling the property and splitting the proceeds.

But where the issue comes in is when they were in high school, They had a friend who liked to hang out at their house more than his own house.

So they started calling him brother.

Well,

20 years ago, when my husband went into the Marine Corps, we lent him money.

He never paid us back.

And he cut us off because he didn't pay us back.

So he cut us off.

My husband was deploying.

He was trying to reach out to him.

He would never answer his calls.

So we haven't had any relationship with him until 10 years ago when my father-in-law died.

And then he,

my sister-in-law, my mother-in-law decided that he would get a cut of the house when we sold it because he's a quote-unquote brother.

Well, we still haven't talked to him in 10 years.

Did he get a cut the first time it sold?

Yes, he did.

Okay.

So they split it four ways.

So now

everything legally is just in my husband and my sister-in-law's names because they're the only kids.

So everyone's on board.

We're selling it.

It's gone up in value

three and a half times because it's in Dallas County.

So it's worth anywhere from $75,000 to $100,000 now just for the land.

So my sister-in-law is thinking we're going to split this three ways.

No, we're not.

With the quote-unquote brother.

No, we're not.

And that's how my, yeah, that's how my husband feels.

Yeah, no, we're not.

I don't know when we have this conversation with her.

We don't.

Your husband does.

It's his sister, not yours.

Right.

He sits down with her and says, I'm not doing this.

He stiffed me.

He's not a brother.

He's not in this deal.

He already got more than he deserved with the first round.

No, I'm not splitting with him.

And if you don't like that, kiss my butt.

I am not splitting with him.

And I know you're right.

And I knew you were going to say that.

And that's what everyone else has said.

I think I'm the one handling everything.

Like I said, my husband is a message.

No, you're not handling this.

He's handling his sister, not you.

Oh, yeah, I know.

I mean, just with the paperwork side and finding out what they needed to do.

And then she's just saying, you're so great.

You're so wonderful.

I'm so blessed by you.

And so it's just eating me up knowing.

It doesn't need to eat you up.

You haven't done anything.

There's nothing to eat up.

This is an unreasonable, crazy, but request.

And we're not doing it.

It's ridiculous.

It was ridiculous it was done the first time.

And what's really ridiculous is that y'all are ending up with this property again.

And would you, for God's sakes, have a lawyer close the deal this time so that it's done right?

Y'all people, you people suck at business, don't you?

I mean, this is horrible.

It's horrible.

No,

if you had a lawyer, he should be in jail for malpractice.

How do you years later discover a deed is not recorded?

Come on.

Yeah, this is crazy.

So we have to do this properly this time.

I don't want to ever see this piece of property again.

It needs to go away

because your name or your husband's name is in the paper right now for unpaid property taxes.

Trust.

Yeah.

How in the world?

That's the most.

I've done thousands of real estate transactions.

I've never heard one that was this bad.

This sucks.

Yeah, you guys really, I mean, how, and you, and the irony is you end up back with it.

And I'm not sure how many different signatures you've got to get from, God, who has equity of title in this is Georgia?

Yeah.

You need a really good lawyer.

And you need somebody that's ready to write title insurance on this process this time so that we are ensuring that this title is properly transferred.

Y'all are, but honey,

your husband just simply sits down with his sister and says, No, I'm not, you know, boychild young got all he's going to get.

It's like Eddie Haskell gone awry.

There's a whole generation of people who have no idea what I'm talking about.

Look that up.

But the fact that he got money the first time around, to me, is absolutely ludicrous just because he enjoyed spending time over there and they felt bad for this guy.

There's a backstory that we're not aware of.

We didn't have time to get to.

I'm guaranteeing it.

But at this point, her husband was gale.

I was like, I'm sorry to say that you did the DNA and ancestry and found out he was actually a brother.

Right.

But this is just, this is

like some guy who just hung around like a bad penny.

Yeah.

I got a feeling mama knows something she ain't saying, but I may be wrong.

Yeah.

Oh, there's a this is just wicked script.

This could be like a lifetime mini-series.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, it's not on Hallmark.

I can tell you that.

You know, that's the truth.

Oh,

cray cray.

Wow.

So, yeah, moral of the story is: um,

bad deals have a high rate of resurrection.

They do.

When you do something that's a bad idea, it does not go away.

It comes back again.

It's like a bad penny, so to speak.

All right, I have a follow-up question because I think this affects a lot of people.

Not this situation, but I think the fear of confrontation, Dave, is what's underneath this whole deal, besides all the bad business.

And you and I, it's very clear for us.

It's very black and white.

We know exactly what we would say, but

we eat confrontation for breakfast.

How would you coach somebody like this husband?

He's sitting here and he's not getting it.

He's terrified to have this conversation with the sister,

to disappoint the friend who's been gone for a decade.

What would you say to somebody who has a really hard time stepping into this confrontation?

How would you coach them?

It's a great question.

When I first started our business, I thought as a southern Christian guy that I was supposed to be nice to everybody.

And

how that ended up translating was I was nice to people when I shouldn't have been.

And so I didn't tell them the truth.

You know, like you're not doing your job well.

And so I'm frustrated.

The poor guy doesn't even know he's not doing his job well.

And so we changed it around here.

To be unclear is to be unkind.

If you work for MZ, we're going to be real clear with you.

We're not going to be mean.

We're not going to cuss and yell and scream and throw stuff at you.

But if something's going on, we're going to tell you

to be unclear is ultimately to be unkind.

Because there's a whole bottled-up resentment at mom and sister for the first time Goober got money.

And so you've been unkind to everybody else in the family by not standing up and being clear that this is wrong.

And so when you stand on principle and you tell the truth kindly, gently, forcefully, boldly,

there's a cleanliness to it.

And the way you people have been conflict avoiding has created a tangled barrel of fish hooks.

And you don't want to live in a barrel of fish hooks.

You want to live in a clean land, a land of cleanliness.

And conflict, positive good conflict will bring that for you.

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Elizabeth is in Virginia Beach.

Hi, Elizabeth.

How are you?

I'm good.

I'm I'm good.

How are you guys?

Thank you, Dave and Ken, for taking my call.

Sure.

What's up?

So, for a little background, I'm currently a stay-at-home mom.

I work a couple times a month, and my husband's in the military.

We currently have our mortgage and a car loan.

The car loan is $12,000,

and the interest rate on that is $1.6.

We have a $12,000 emergency fund, and after listening to your your show pretty religiously over the last only few weeks, but

we thought perhaps we should be taking that $11,000 from our emergency fund to pay off our car.

However, with the current government shutdown, we are just wondering if we should maybe put a pause on that route until we're absolutely sure he's going to get paid.

Well, he's going to get paid, and he'll get paid all the way through.

It's just a matter of when.

Yeah.

So when they reopen they'll they'll cover all the back pay they're not going to skip a check but right now you're not getting anything correct

yeah we just have i'm working a couple times a month so we still have a little bit coming in but um we just wanted to we don't want to drain our emergency funds no you're you're not working the baby steps right now you're in the middle of a storm you push pause on everything and pile cash up and and eat and keep the lights on and don't buy anything

okay and just hold hold on until the storm storm goes by.

Now, when the storm goes by, you push play,

which that day you would take all but $1,000 out of your emergency fund, apply it to the car and start working your baby steps, right?

Okay.

But only after he starts getting his pay.

Yeah, we were thinking, like, before the shutdown happened, we were thinking, like, should we do the $11,000 and pay it off?

Or should we just throw like, you know, extra payments from

budgeting it.

Okay,

but not right now, not until he gets paid.

But once he's getting paid, you need to work the baby steps the way we talk about.

Okay, yeah.

They're not going to shut it down again for a while once they open it up.

So you're going to be okay.

Okay.

I love to hear it.

Well, I mean, they can't.

It's not how it works.

So they're not going to kick the can down the road for four days.

It's going to be months or years or whatever.

Okay.

Yeah.

So, yeah, but for right now, I would push pause.

Anytime folks are facing a storm,

you push pause and you pile cash up to get ready for the storm, whatever the storm is.

And then when the storm subsides, you get the other side of it, the sun comes out, push play again, you drain all that cash that you've stacked up, throw it at your smallest to largest debt in that order, and get going again and get the whole thing moving.

Ken, I'm seeing a lot of

emails coming into our customer care.

from government employees who have worked our system for years,

and they're smiling.

They're saying, I am not affected by not getting a paycheck for a week or two because I have plenty of money and I have no debt.

Yeah, it's true.

I mean, this is why you really have an emergency fund here.

This is what we'd call a big, big emergency when you have maybe a two-week or a month.

Just for historical context to calm a lot of people, because I know a lot of people look to us for financial advice in the midst of the headlines.

And this is right out of the headlines.

Before we came came on today

in a press conference, Trump did say, he threw it out there: maybe we don't pay back pay.

So, this has been said by the president, so people start getting real uptight.

And I understand it's your paycheck.

But this is why the three to six months emergency fund is so vitally important.

But to give historical context, since 1981, there have been four major government shutdowns, the longest one in 2019

for just over a month.

So, most of the time, this is all political posturing, both parties.

I'm not taking a position so that way nobody needs to get mad.

But what happens is they're leveraging, and this is a bit of a poker contest as to who gets what in this next continuing resolution bill.

So, hang in there.

Historically, Dave, we've never seen one longer than a month.

We'll see where it goes.

And that was

under Captain Bluff, who's in the office now.

I mean, he will bluff anything.

He'll look at a a rock and bluff it.

I never saw anything like it.

That's a great point.

I mean, he's just unbelievable.

But, yeah, so

don't play chicken with this guy.

He'll run over you.

So,

whether you agree with him or not, I mean, this is the pattern.

That's true.

He's not a real good negotiator.

He's really good at running over things and calling it negotiating.

That's exactly right.

So hang in there.

Don't get too hung up on the headlines.

Both parties need this deal to happen, and they're the ultimate, both sides of the aisle.

They are all about preserving themselves.

So once the public gets hot enough or the issue becomes too much of a

toxic type thing for their base, then they start to cave in.

So I've just seen too many of these.

Don't freak out.

Just take it from me on this one.

Don't freak out.

Never.

I mean, you know.

Control what you can control is what we've been teaching.

Always control the controllables.

And when you're facing drama or trauma, facts are your friends.

What are the facts?

The facts are are there's only been a handful of these ever since 1981, and that's a long time.

Like, what, 50 years now, right?

And so

the last 50 years, four or five times, and one time under this same president in 2019, it stayed down for an entire month, which is that was unprecedented at the time.

And the sad thing about this is, Dave, is it affects our good men and women of the military

a lot of great federal employees?

You hate it for our federal employees.

But I challenge any of you over the next week to find something that has negatively affected your life.

If you're not in that camp, because I'm not minimizing it, but those of us who don't draw a paycheck from the federal government, it's hard to find evidence that it's been shut down.

Yeah.

Yeah.

True.

True.

Craig's in San Antonio.

Hey, Craig, how are you?

I'm doing great.

Thanks for taking my call.

Sure.

How can we help?

Well, I have two inherited retirement accounts um

i've had them for about two years now

all my research and discussions with the financial institutions that they're with

show that i have to withdraw the money in 10 years and that it's basically a taxable event every time and i'm trying to figure out how to minimize the tax hit on this i was hoping there'd be something easy like converting it to an ira of my own or maybe putting it in my daughter's 529.

But

as far as we can tell, it's just all taxable the whole way.

You have gotten correct information, sir.

Okay.

The only thing that could have been done is if it was converted to a Roth before the person died.

Right.

It's a traditional.

And it's a traditional.

That's why you're under the Biden Secure Act passed under Joe Biden, and the Secure Act calls for it to be liquidated within 10 years.

And so...

I mean, you could take out a tenth a year and maybe not not have a tax bracket creep.

What's it invested in?

It's about two-thirds in a growth fund, stocks,

and the rest of it is in a bond fund and then an S ⁇ P 500 fund.

How much is in there?

About $550.

Okay.

It's a lot.

Well, it's a blessing to get that.

It's sad.

It's all taxable, but it is.

And so

who left it to you?

Your dad or mom or somebody?

My father, yeah.

So you're really not paying your taxes.

You're paying the taxes that he had never paid yet.

Right.

That's all it is.

So that money's never been taxed because it was put in pre-tax and it's grown without tax on it until you withdraw it and you get the benefit of withdrawing it.

So

what I would do is run some numbers with your Smart Vestor Pro.

Go to ramseysolutions.com and click on Smart Vestor and find a Smart Vestor Pro in your area.

Sit down and go, okay, I want to get this into good mutual funds and I want a withdrawal system.

Do I need to do it over 10 years or can I just do it all at once and get it over with?

How much is it?

What's the difference if I do that?

It's probably not a lot, but it is all ordinary income.

So it'll just depend on the bracket creep.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens.

One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

You know, we hear it all the time.

A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

Yeah, Yeah, and that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

Yeah, that's right.

You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage.

No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection.

But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance.

Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them.

Life insurance steps in when you die.

Disability insurance steps in while while you're alive, but can't work.

So it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet.

Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it.

If it's discounted there at a better price, take it.

But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

Whether you're single or married, it's not optional.

If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money's still showing up.

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Today's question comes from Tanner in South Carolina.

My wife of seven years and I disagree on how my business should be run.

I own a photography and videography company that I've had for 10 years.

I've built this business from the ground up and it's my baby.

My wife believes that it's our business now that we are married and that she should be able to make decisions on whether I can book a certain job or not or how I communicate with my customers.

She's also having an opinion on how much I charge my customers and how I process the final product.

I'm glad to work with her on a number of jobs that I book, which impacts our time together.

But I draw the line on how I run my business day to day.

Am I wrong for wanting to run the business I built my way?

I'm sorry.

I had to get through that without laughing.

No, you're not wrong.

It was very hard for me to get through that, Dave.

No, you're not wrong

wanting to run the business you've built.

I mean, now, obviously, your wife,

she she has an opinion.

I think she's entitled to her opinion.

But that doesn't mean that her opinion should sway the way you run the business if you guys didn't enter into this business together.

Again, I say on your personal finances and all that, 100%.

But in this situation,

I don't know why I'm laughing.

I feel bad for you.

This is a tough situation.

Sounds like she's a handful.

Yeah, this is tricky.

Really tricky.

Yeah.

Now, here's how you can parse it out.

This will help you.

There's a lot of really good data and academic teaching on small business.

One of the fathers or grandfathers of that space is a guy named John Ward who wrote a little book called Family Business.

In the little book, he has a Venn diagram with three circles.

Owner,

family,

and worker or team member.

And they overlap the three circles of Venn diagram, a classic Venn diagram, right?

And so someone can be an owner, someone can be a family member, someone can be a team member, and someone can be all three or two of those things.

You are all three.

She is not.

She's one of the owners,

and she's a family member, but she is not a team member.

Okay, now here's how that works.

In other words, she speaks into the business as a spouse

because she doesn't work there,

which is not operational control.

Now, if you're a wise man from a standpoint of running a business and from a standpoint of being married, you will listen to her counsel

and sometimes take it.

Proverbs 31 says, who can find a virtuous wife?

For her worth is far above rubies.

The heart of her husband safely trusts her, and he will have no lack of gain.

Sharon Ramsey has some opinions about things that we do at Ramsey, but she does not tell us where to order copier paper.

And she does not develop marketing strategy.

And she does not enter her discussion into pricing unless I ask her about pricing on, oh, we're getting ready to take the price up on these books because everybody else has.

Oh, yeah, well, we probably ought to do that.

But that's my wife speaking into my business.

It is not a member of the team

that is down here working every day speaking into the operations.

She has gotten confused.

She has taken more ground than she has been given.

Okay?

So unless she comes down there and gets on the payroll and becomes the CEO or the COO

or something else, at that point, she would be all three things and she would be rightly speaking into the day-to-day operations of the business.

But otherwise, she's just your spouse talking to her spouse and saying, hey, if I were you, here's how I would do it.

And I think this is wise.

But I think she's gotten confused about her place on this.

And it's not a woman's place.

It's a man's place either one.

It could be, roles could be reversed.

You should talk to your husband, ladies, if you're running a business and get their input on some things.

But they don't need to come down there and talk about which customers we take or so forth unless you ask them.

I mean, if I'm having a customer that's high maintenance or kind of got a

problem or something, I may discuss that with my wife and she may go, well, I wouldn't put up with that crap.

And I go, you know what?

That's kind of what I was thinking.

I'm not going to put up with it either.

Okay.

And but that's different than you're an idiot for running the business the way you've run it for 10 years.

And I'm going to come in here and show you how to do it, although I don't actually work there, and I really don't even know what the flip I'm talking about,

which is the way this chick sounds.

Yeah.

Out of control.

I wish I knew more.

I wish this was a phone call.

What I would be attempting to do is find an area where she's super excited in the business and give her more input there,

maybe some a little bit more control there, as long as it's not affecting the day-to-day.

No, I wouldn't.

Well, I know you agree.

I know you wouldn't.

I'm just saying I'd try to find it.

I didn't say I'd absolutely.

I would ask her input as my spouse, and I want to trust the input of my virtuous wife.

Therefore, I will have no lack of gain.

But part of being virtuous is not acting this way.

Right.

But she's giving input on everything.

I know.

He laid out the entire business she's giving input on.

Yeah, exactly.

I mean, product design, pricing, which customers to take, what schedule to run, that's ops control.

That's a COO.

That's not spousal control.

And unless you work there, you shouldn't be speaking into that.

And you shouldn't assume that you're speaking into that.

I think a marriage therapist might be in order on on this.

Oh, yeah, I think.

I think you're probably right about that.

We won't disagree on that one.

If you're a business owner or a leader and you've got a question about running a business, including family business, as you can tell, I got lots of opinions, and I'm right.

You can join us on the Entree Leadership podcast that I do, where I take calls from small business people about business questions.

844-944-1070.

Or go to entreeleadership.com/slash ask and fill out the form.

We'll call and make you a caller on the Entree podcast list.

By the way, that particular stuff I've got.

I have a question.

If that were a real call with both of them, with you, that'd be absolute YouTube gold.

It would melt the internet.

Well, I've done plenty of them with family business, I can tell you.

I had some really interesting ones over the years.

Jared is in New York City.

Hey, Jared, how are you?

Hey, how's it going?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

So, thanks for taking my call.

So,

some last couple of weeks have been a little bit of a little bit of a whirlwind.

So my wife is pregnant early on in pregnancy.

So super excited about that.

14 weeks along.

Where it's been a bit of a whirlwind is they found something that as long as there's more tests to come, but God willing everything else is okay.

It's something that when the baby's born may need some surgery.

now or is expected to need some surgery.

Now, nothing, you know, more than routine, again, as long as everything else is okay.

So, you know, I am, you know, grappling with that, of course, on the mental side of things, but, you know, yeah.

So my wife and I are, though, currently going through baby step two.

So there's a financial question on how to plan.

You know, I was thinking like setting up a sinking fund for kind of approximations of what it could potentially be while still paying off debt, but, you know, just kind of not sure even where to start.

We tell folks when they're having a baby to push pause and don't work on the baby steps and pile up cash.

And when baby and mama come home, we pay the bills and what's left, we push play again and apply it to your debt snowball.

So I want you to stop right now and just pile how big a pile of cash can you make?

You can't make it one too big because you're going to put it all on debt if you don't use it on the baby.

Right.

In just a few, I mean, and now about seven months, right?

About.

Yeah.

A little less.

Yeah.

And so six months, whatever.

I mean, so for six months, we're going to pile cash.

Baby and mama come home.

We pay whatever bills the insurance does not pay because you've got copay and you've got deductibles to meet, right?

And then whatever's left after the baby and mama, you're home safe and sound.

And

then you're ready to go.

And you just push play again and you fly it right down through there.

Takes your breath away, Ken.

Oh, you'll make it.

Kids are expensive.

Just deal with it, but you'll make it.

I promise.

Man, nothing scares you more than a baby.

It's the truth.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio.

I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, best-selling author and host of Front Row Seat, a big hit on Ramsey Network.

He's my co-host today.

Liz is in Nashville.

Hi, Liz.

How are you?

Hi, Dave.

I'm good.

How are you?

Better than we deserve.

What's up?

I'm just calling because with me and my husband combined, we have a debt of $562,000.

That includes our mortgage, but besides the mortgage, most of that debt is his.

We're following your baby stuff.

We've been following it all year, but it doesn't seem like we're getting anywhere.

And if anything, right now we're back at the same amount that we had at the beginning of the year.

I just don't know what to do.

I don't know what to do anymore.

I'm sorry.

How could you get back into debt when you're getting out of debt?

I'm confused.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Well, we've had situations with our cards come up, and then

he loves to use his credit cards for anything that comes up.

Okay, so we're going into credit card debt while we're trying to get out of debt.

So he's not really trying to get out of debt.

He's running business as usual, and you're trying to get out of debt.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, I have $11,000 of that debt is mine.

But even myself right now,

I just can't seem to get out of it.

And I'm just going to say that.

So you said $562,000.

How much of that is mortgage?

$500,000 is mortgage.

Okay.

What's the $62,000?

So $11,000 is mine, and then the...

No, there's not a mine.

You're married.

The $11,000 on what?

It's basically just credit cards.

Okay, so you have $11,000 on credit cards.

What else is out there out of the $62,000?

It's all credit cards.

You have $62,000 in credit card dad.

I'm sorry.

You don't have a car payment.

That's true.

Just one car payment.

We have $1,000 left on it.

Okay, you owe $1,000 on a car.

And what do you owe on your student loans?

We have no student loans.

I paid off my car.

Okay, so you basically have $62,000 in credit card, $61,000 in credit card debt.

And what's your household income?

I make $82,000 and he makes $80,000.

Okay, so $162,000 with a $500,000 mortgage.

And how long ago were you zero credit cards

debt?

Well, I was at zero credit cards last year.

He's always had credit cards.

How long have you been married?

We've been married for five years now.

Okay.

So when you're married, it's all ours.

You understand me?

Okay, so you were never at zero because he's always had credit cards because we have had credit cards because you are married to Mr.

Credit Card.

Yes.

Okay.

So you've been married five years and we have always had credit card debt.

How much credit card debt did he come into the marriage with?

I think at that point it was around maybe $70,000.

So it's maintained for about the last five years about the same.

Yes.

Okay.

So in his past he overspent, which is what the credit card came from.

But we're just going to...

Okay, so

how old are you guys?

He's 41, and I'm 30.

Okay.

All right.

Well, this is not

a systems problem.

This is a person problem.

It's a behavior problem.

Okay.

So your system of getting out of debt is not going to work until both of you decide you're going to get out of debt.

He has not decided that.

And so

you have a marriage issue to sit down and talk to your husband and say, I want to get on the same page.

I want us to get out of debt.

And you can't tell me you want to get out of debt unless you put all the credit cards on the table and cut them up right now.

Yeah, we actually did that this weekend.

Two quick questions.

Give me quick answers here.

How long have you been trying to do the baby steps?

since the beginning of this year?

Okay.

And then, do you guys have separate finances?

I'm guessing you do the way you're talking.

Yeah.

Yes, we do.

And then, and then one other one, I forgot.

Does he use the credit card as just all of his expenses?

And he's under the guise, I'm going to pay it off at the end of the month, but he never does.

Is that what's going on?

He's running everything through it.

He was.

Yeah.

Not anymore.

Okay.

Why did he agree to cut them all up last weekend?

I think it's because, you know, he's 41, and I'm just, I'm disappointed.

I just, I can't take it anymore.

You know,

I have never had debt, and I've even wrecked up $11,000.

Okay, wait a minute.

Stop a minute.

Okay.

I get all that, but he cut up the credit cards last weekend, and then you called me and said he keeps going into credit card debt.

But it sounds like this guy turned the corner last weekend and said, I'm getting out of debt.

I cut them all up.

I'm confused about what you're upset about.

I guess because I didn't, I thought the number was lower than what it is.

So

that's what I'm saying.

But you knew that last weekend.

Yeah, but I'm at a point where I don't know what to do.

I can't pay off what we...

what we owe.

I just don't see you.

Yes, you can.

You make $162,000.

You only need $62,000 to pay all this off.

So you live on $100,000 and you are debt-free in one year.

Voila.

It's fairly easy.

It's $5,000 a month and you are debt-free in one year.

The two of you sit down and do a budget together, combine your sneaking finances and get on the same page and go, we're going to put $5,000 a month on this debt because you cut up the credit cards and I'm over this.

I can't sleep.

I'm terrified.

I'm done with all this irresponsibility and you are too.

Thank you for cutting up the credit cards.

Let's get on this and lock arms and let's attack this thing and be done.

That's how you do it.

You make enough money to pay this off in one year.

Easy.

That's right.

If you can't live on $100,000 in Nashville, something's wrong with you.

Well, I don't.

I've tried.

I've tried, and it just doesn't add up with daycare, with everything.

It just doesn't add up.

What's your house payment?

No, I know what your house payment is.

Yes, you have not done a budget because the math you're giving me is just not factual.

Okay?

You can pay daycare and eat and pay your house payment out of $100,000.

That's $8,000 a month.

Quit your 401k.

If you're getting a refund, reset your W-2s and quit getting a tax refund.

Cash out whatever money you've got in savings.

Chop up the credit cards and attack this.

So there's something.

Liz,

your hopelessness is not logical

unless you believe he's really not going to stop, in which case you need to go see a marriage counselor.

But

if he's acting like I'm talking about, and he goes, Yeah, we're going to live on beans and rice, rice and beans.

We're going to stop the 401ks.

We're not going on any vacations.

We're going to sell so much stuff the kids are afraid they're next.

We're getting extra jobs.

We're going to live on a written budget.

The two of us are agreeing together.

I just cut up the credit cards.

Boom, $5,000 a month goes on this.

That's $60,000 a year.

That leaves me $100,000 to live on.

Shut up and do it.

That's what it takes right there.

You just got to go do this now.

But

you can't live in the past and be going, well, I get back to any.

I don't care.

All that matters is the next 12 months game on, baby.

Super Bowl.

Put the ball in the end zone.

Let's go.

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Nicole is in New York.

Hi, Nicole.

How are you?

Good.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

My fiancé and I are trying to plan our honeymoon, and we're trying to figure out how much money we think is appropriate to spend.

Looking for guidance.

When are you getting married?

Next August.

Awesome.

Good for you.

Yeah.

Very good.

So where are you wanting to go?

So we're looking to go to Italy

for around 10 or 11 days.

Wow.

Very nice.

So what's the budget on that?

What's that going to cost?

It's looking like around $25,000, but we are open to adjusting things.

Oh, wow.

Depending on what you say.

Oh, wow.

A whole lot of pressure, Dave.

Yeah.

This is the honeymoon now.

This is the honeymoon, and it's Italy.

There's a lot of good stuff happening here.

Yeah.

And my mouth's kind of watering right now, actually.

I'm just saying.

But, all right, so I assume you're going to have $25,000 in cash to do this with.

You're not going in debt.

Yes, yeah, yeah.

And what do you make and what does he make a year?

I make around $200,000, and he makes around $300,000 a year.

Okay.

Sounds like you can afford it.

Yeah.

Enjoy yourself, kids.

Really?

Wow.

I mean, is there, like, do you have like $10 million in debt or something?

We have no debt.

No debt.

How old are you two high-income earners?

29.

Wow.

You're killing it.

Is there something information you're holding back from us?

Because so far you're checking all the bucks.

You must be.

Wow.

So, I mean,

you kind of know if you make a half million dollars a year and you're 29 years old that you can do 25K.

You already knew that, right?

Well, you never know.

But yes.

It just seems like sticker shock that you would spend that much.

Is that what you're experiencing?

It seems like a lot of sticker shock.

That's a lot of money.

Why don't you pay attention to what you're doing with that $25,000?

Because that's a pretty nice honeymoon.

It's not like you're staying at the Red Roof Inn in Italy.

All right.

Well,

I mean, this is a nice experience.

Yes?

You got

to be awesome.

All right, then.

I mean, savor this.

This is your honeymoon.

You're right.

You're right.

Here's how we need this.

this.

Here's how Sharon and I know we're overspending.

We look at two things.

One is what percentage of our world

is this amount of money, meaning our net worth, our income.

Okay.

And this is a small percentage of your income.

Yeah.

If you took $25,000 and threw it out the window and watched the people on the street below run around like crazy, it would not ruin your life.

Yeah.

And so spending it on something much more fun than that,

it was not going to ruin your life.

So if you told me you make $50,000 a year and you're going to spend $25,000, now we're going to have a long discussion about how dumb that is.

Right.

Even though it's a wonderful trip, you can't afford it.

It doesn't make sense.

But you have another zero on that decimal, so you're in good shape.

The second thing we measure against is we're always,

if we give pause, this gave you pause.

It made you stop and think.

It was like a speed bump.

It slowed you down.

Anytime that happens, that means I need to slow down and check my generosity factor.

Is my generosity still really high?

And am I doing a good job with helping others with the money God has blessed me with?

And if so, then this is a very minor amount of money.

And you pass both of those tests, you should go to Italy.

I'll give you another possibility.

They haven't been making this kind of money that long.

It's new to them.

And so it takes a little while to build the emotional muscle to spend more money on it.

You know, she said that they're both very frugal.

And I'm looking at Rachel's book over there, Know Yourself, Know Your Money, and she

brilliantly lays out money styles and what affects that.

So without doing too much digging, we know that they come from a background where maybe they didn't come from a lot of money and they've been successful.

Maybe there's some scarcity going on, but all good reasons in this case because they're very, very frugal and they're going, hey, is this crazy?

Yeah, but it, you know, what it also underscores is

an emotional maturity because there's zero entitlement.

Correct.

We did not have Broadzilla on the phone going, I ain't got it, anyway.

It was none of that, right?

There was none of that Broadzilla stuff.

This is more, like,

I've dreamed of this my whole life.

Oh, well, shut up, Barbie.

You know, seriously.

How about you have the money before being and be a grown-up?

But this lady here, she's an incredible grown-up.

Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, there's no entitlement, none of that.

It was the opposite of that.

Very concerned and thoughtful and careful and wise and all of that.

Very well done, Kiddo.

Proud of you.

Enjoy it.

Tim is in New York.

Hi, Tim.

How are you?

Hey, Dave.

Good.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

How can I help?

So, my second question, my brother and I own a home together.

We have a very good interest rate

and we have a very cheap mortgage.

I'm going to be looking to move out and buy another home with my girlfriend sometime next year.

Don't do that.

Basically wondering.

Okay.

No, please don't buy a house with somebody you're not married.

Please don't buy a house with somebody you're not married to.

Okay.

You're going to get yourself up a creek, bud.

Seriously,

if you're going to buy a house with her, you need to marry her first.

Okay, fair enough.

Yeah, because here's the thing.

Something happens.

You're now in partnership with her mother.

Sure.

Yeah.

Or she just decides she's going to take off and you can't find her,

and you get to pay the payments.

And you can't sell it because you can't find your partner.

And in this case, it is a literal partner, not a relational partner.

So, yeah, no, please don't, don't, don't buy a house.

Now, if you want to buy a house and she lives with you,

that's your decision on how you have a roommate.

Sure.

Yeah, but the legal and financial entanglements when people shack up and start buying stuff together and sharing too much stuff, you really get all twisted up and it's very, very, very difficult to undo.

It's difficult enough when you use divorce to do it.

But

man,

we've taken some wicked, ugly situations on this show of people who bought a house or bought a car with their shacked up boyfriend or girlfriend and then they can't find them or they die and they're, you know, now i'm partners with my well she's not my mother-in-law because she never was in law but i don't know who this chick is it's my girlfriend's mother oh my god this is a really nightmarish scenario and we run into that kind of stuff all the time tim and it's just we see all the times it didn't work which is like most of the time yeah you just don't want to end up in a real life jerry springer episode you know because nobody's going to bail you out that makes for great tv it's not fun to live through entertaining call on the ramsey show but you don't want to be one of those you don't want to be one of the wise people who said, no, I'm not going to do that.

And we're getting those calls, I feel like, consistently over the last six months where they're not married and they're trying to untangle it.

It's a nightmare.

And it's, and, well, I mean, you can't find them, or they don't, they don't talk to you.

Or, and, you know, how do you get out of this?

How do you have to sue in court to disband a general partnership with no partnership documents?

And it's very, very expensive to get the circuit court to give you relief and force the sale of this and force the other party to come in and sign the deed.

Oh my gosh, it's a mess.

And by the way, I'll tee you up on this one, too, because I'm seeing this as happening.

We're seeing data where more and more young people, because they're reading too many headlines, too many TikToks, that they'll never be able to afford a home.

Now we're talking platonic relationships.

Three or four women or three or four dudes will go in and buy a house, split it three ways, and think that they're getting ahead.

And that's just, that's as goofy as I've ever seen.

And that's happening on a regular basis now.

Yeah, anything with two to four heads is a monster.

Yeah, this is a bad plan.

Any ship that won't sale is a partnership.

So all of these things come into play, right?

So, no, we don't, we don't do that.

You buy houses with people you're married to.

That's it.

In your case, you did it with your brother.

You're all probably going to get out of that one alive, it sounds like, Tim.

So that's good.

But yeah,

I would not purchase.

I would rent if you're going to live together.

And I don't recommend doing either of those.

But if you're going to do it from a financial and legal entanglement standpoint, and then after you're married, decide what to buy.

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In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Matthew and Ann are with us.

Hey, guys, how are you?

Good and you?

Better than I deserve.

Welcome.

Where do y'all live?

We're actually from Knoxville, Tennessee.

Very cool.

Well, welcome to Nashville.

And how much debt have you two paid off?

We paid off $350,000.

Wow.

And how long did that take?

It took us eight years.

Good for you.

And your range of income during that eight years?

We went from about $52,000 to about $92,000.

Very good.

What do y'all do for a living?

So I started out as a teacher for about 13 years and have moved into construction.

And I just went back to teaching fourth grade.

Oh, fun.

Good for you.

Well done, you guys.

So 350 over eight years.

I'm guessing you guys paid off your house.

Yes, sir.

Look at some weirdos.

Way to go, guys.

No house payment.

Wow.

What's the house worth?

The house is worth, I think, is about $420,000 or $450,000.

Very good.

And how much have you guys built in your retirement nest eggs?

We have about $200,000, I believe.

Awesome.

So you're on your way to Baby Steps Millionaires, and you're not that old.

How are you?

How old are you?

We're actually both 35 years old.

Oh, wow.

Wow.

So you're going to be millionaires by the time you're 40 and have a paid-for house by the time you're 35.

Y'all are weird.

Yes.

I love it.

I'm so proud of you.

Way to go, guys.

Way to go.

All right.

So you got to tell us, you know, what made you decide to take on the debt plus get rid of the house?

A lot of it was when we got married.

We went to a financial peace university with our church.

And after that, we were just determined we need to pay off our house as soon as we can.

Very cool.

What church do you go to?

We're at Calgary, Knoxville now.

Yeah, good.

Originally from California, but now here in Tennessee.

Okay, so you got married in California, really?

Yes, sir.

Okay, so that, what church was that that you took the class?

We took that.

It was Clovis E.

V.

Free.

Ah, okay.

Cool.

Very cool.

Well, way to go, guys.

I love it.

So, how long have you been married?

We've been married for seven years.

No, eight years.

Eight years.

Eight years.

Okay.

So from the time you got married, you were just game on?

It was for sure.

I mean, for her, it was just having that peace of mind.

And for me, I got to kind of start nerding out on spreadsheets.

I like it.

I like it.

Way to go.

Very cool.

What was the hardest part of this journey for you guys?

Was there a struggle?

And how did you get through it?

Honestly, I think for us, we've always had that goal of, okay, this, the house is going to come.

And so we were just blessed moving across the state that it, or not say across the country, and just kind of the focus was the house.

I mean, I think the first time I never really got bonus as a teacher.

So when the bonus came from the new work that I'm at, I was like, oh, I can go buy something.

Instead, it's like, okay, no, we've got to keep the goal in mind and instead just pay off the house.

And then from there, we can actually have a lot more fun.

Yeah, yeah, because you can do anything you want now.

Yep.

I mean, you're sitting here making 92 grand and killing it and no payments in the world.

How does it feel to not have a house payment?

I don't know if it's fully hit yet.

I mean, we paid it off last month, and so the first item, the budget item is with every dollar, it still says that mortgage on there.

So I'm just excited to delete that line.

And then from there, just kind of see how what we were paying for the house is actually going stuff like to our kids' colleges or just even having a little bit more fun.

Yeah, absolutely.

So what's the first big thing you're going to do to celebrate?

First big thing is upgrading my wife's car.

It's a little old and she needs to be driving style.

Good, good.

I like this man.

Good plan.

Good plan.

So what are you going to buy her?

What are you guys going to buy her?

She's.

She wants you to buy her, but yeah.

Sorry.

She wants a Toyota RAV4.

Oh, perfect.

Okay.

That'll be great.

And what's the hoopty you're getting rid of, the old one?

2010 Toyota Camry.

It only has about 170,000 miles.

Oh, we have squeezed the juice out of that puppy.

Well, for a Camry, that's only a third of its life.

It's got a lot more left.

You can't get rid of them.

No.

They just keep going and going and going.

Way to go, you guys.

I'm so proud of you.

Who was bragging on you?

Who was cheering you on?

Oh, fans, friends.

We actually have some friends here that got to, because they're in the Nashville area, got to come out and just celebrate with us today.

Oh, Oh, that's fun.

Very good.

Anyone tell you you were crazy while you were doing this?

Oh, I hear it all the time because we actually pay, we had to pay off, we had to buy another car from me to get around town.

And when we told everybody we paid for cash, they're like, why?

I mean, just can buy whatever you want, and I'll go buy something nicer.

And it's like, no, this gets me what I need to do.

And we had our goals and we wanted just to kind of continue to live free.

Yeah, and the goal is I don't have a stinking payment.

Hello.

Yes.

Man, that's sweet.

Sweet.

You can do anything you want to do, man.

I'm proud of y'all.

You know, you're going to have so much money, it's going to be ridiculous.

Are you the first ones in your families to be like this?

I don't know for sure.

I think, I mean, my parents and her parents are, but I don't know compared to the siblings that I don't necessarily for sure know.

I know credit cards.

We're probably weird in that sense that we don't have credit cards.

Right.

Okay, cool, cool.

One of the things I want to ask, because I've coached a lot of teachers over the years who wanted to get out and they didn't think they could because they hadn't done anything else.

Just real briefly, I think it would be helpful to some people.

How did you make the transition from teaching to construction?

I think honestly, it's your proximity process.

I mean, I felt, I mean, teaching is definitely a calling.

And I felt for a long time that that calling was teaching until I was like, okay, God laid something on my heart.

And I just had a buddy of mine say, hey, this fits what you're looking for.

This is just kind of the criteria because I'm a math teacher.

And a lot of what I do now is data analysis.

And said, hey, take a look at this.

And we just trusted God and made the leap.

Wow.

So the transferable skill here was math teacher, move over into analytics and the data side of construction.

Correct.

And

it's kind of nice not to be just teaching the same thing over every day, every year.

So it makes it even more fun.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

Good for you.

Absolutely.

And you brought the kiddos to celebrate with you?

We did.

All right.

Bring them up.

Let's see their names and ages.

We have Miss Nola Bell.

She's six.

All right.

She's beautiful.

And then Nash was just three.

All right.

Big Nash.

Here we go.

Those babies don't even understand how much their parents have completely changed their family tree.

You guys are incredible.

We're so proud of you.

Very, very well done.

All right.

Matthew and Ann, Nola and Nash, Knoxville, Tennessee, $350,000 paid off in eight years, making $52,000 to $92,000.

Count it down.

Let's hear a debt-free scream.

Ready?

Three, two, one.

We're debt-free.

I love it.

I love it.

I love it.

I love it.

Well done, you guys.

Very well done.

Well, Ken, we do know from the

largest study of millionaires ever done by Ramsey Research that's in the white papers in the back of the Baby Steps Millionaires best-selling book that

the number one career choice of millionaires is engineer, number two is accountant, number three is teacher.

Yes.

And so, and we hear all the time from people that don't believe that, but you know, when you use data, we don't care if you believe it or not.

I mean, if you don't believe in the law of gravity, try jumping off a building.

You'll find the sidewalk.

I mean, facts are facts, and that's a fact.

And what we've discovered is that teachers are process-driven.

Particularly a math teacher that does data analysis are process-driven.

And they were both dialed in.

And for eight years, they've made the steps, walked carefully, and paid off the house and had a life while they were paying off their house.

Exactly right.

The American Dream is alive and well, young couples.

Listen, watch the story.

They started on it the minute they got married.

So they didn't accumulate other debt.

They just came right into this thing and they said, we're going to do this.

And they walked it out.

Now they're very young.

And man, you want to talk about prosperity.

It really is now in their future.

And

Mr.

Spreadsheet over here has already run the numbers on what his compound interest is going to be.

He's already sitting on $600,000 or $700,000 net worth at $35,000.

And so that puts him in the tens of millions in his retirement years in net worth.

And so

they're going to be in such great shape.

They've done such a good job.

And, you know, mama's over there driving a hoopty Camry.

Yeah.

And we've got to get her upgraded to a better Toyota there.

And so very good.

Yeah, very good.

Worth every second of the sacrifices.

They they just steady as she goes and they were just monotonous about it.

And now they're going to live like nobody else.

So that's, that's how this works.

So really fun.

If every young couple would take this model, Dave, instead of getting like more and more debt and trying to keep up with everybody else and live the life their parents lived, this is the way.

Yeah.

You need to take Instagram and put a bullet in it.

It's difficult to keep up with other people's highlight reels.

Yeah.

If you're trying to keep up with other people, you're not going to win.

Yeah, it's pretty simple.

Ann is with us in Minneapolis.

Hi, Ann.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

How are you?

Just the same.

How can I help?

So my husband and I have been married eight years, and we just had our first baby in December.

We're on baby step four.

We have no debt other than our mortgage, and we have a good emergency fund saved up.

We both work salaried jobs right now.

I make more than my husband in my field, so my salary is $135K with a 20% annual bonus and significant career growth potential to climb the ladder.

But my husband's is around 100K, and we've found there's more of a salary ceiling with his CPA career.

It's going to be difficult for him to significantly increase salary over the next five years.

You said he's a CPA?

He is a CPA.

He only makes $100,000?

Yeah.

And he has a career cap.

Why does he have a career cap?

He's under market already.

He is, but that's after job hopping like three jobs in the last five years.

It's hard to find.

Maybe it's just Minnesota, but at CPA firms, anything more than 100K

is what we found.

Well, I was waiting on you.

Here's what I would say.

That's because you're looking at one pool, and that's your traditional CPA firms.

But with his skill set plus his experience as a CPA, he has all kinds of upward mobility in the corporate world because of that actual skill set and experience.

But if he's locked in on these firms in a certain type of work that he's doing, and I have a little bit of an idea what you're talking about, then he is cat.

Yeah, but the point is, is he's not limited for his growth.

We're talking about a lot of C-sweeters in the United States that came through the CPA ranks.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But

what's your question?

You've kind of given us the financial picture and what you think the professional outlook is.

Yeah, so we recognize that we both can't continue to work full-time because our daughter isn't in daycare.

And right now, I juggle full-time work remote with her at home.

But that won't last forever as she takes less naps and is up more during the day.

And I really want to be a present mom.

So right now, benefits are the most challenging for us because my husband's work at a small firm, has a very expensive health insurance plan with a limited network and I get really good benefits because I'm in the med tech industry.

So

good insurance is important.

I have chronic health issues.

We need to support ongoing care and medications.

So basically, I don't want to work forever and I want to be able to be a stay-at-home mom.

But we feel like financially and health insurance wise, it may make the most sense for me to work and my husband to go down to part-time, at least we can, until we can get through having another baby and I can get benefits and maternity leave for my second pregnancy.

But my fear is that if I continue to work, it's going to turn into more of a long-term thing because my career will continue to grow and it'll probably never make financial sense for me to stop working because I can just make a lot more money.

So we're also conservative Christians, and there's the factor that the man is supposed to be head of the household, which typically looks like the stereotype of the wife is a full-time stay-at-home mom and the husband's the provider.

So how do we balance the need for benefits and the higher financial value with our long-term strategy of wanting me to be at home with our kids and what we recommend in our city.

And you work on his career.

Yeah.

Because his career path sucks.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So what if he's not very motivated?

Like, I mean, I think he'd be motivated after listening to you.

Yeah.

I mean, this is ready to go.

I'm ready to go.

I think he could go.

Yeah.

I mean, you got this dialed in.

You know exactly what you want and how to get there.

I will tell you, I have taken this call a lot from ladies, and I've talked to a lot of men who cite motivation as a factor.

And I can tell you this,

he doesn't lack motivation.

He lacks clarity.

I don't think this is a lazy guy.

No, no, no, he's not.

Right, right.

So, what you're seeing as it looks like he's not motivated, it presents that way.

But what's going on is he doesn't know what his options are.

He doesn't see clarity in the future, meaning I'd like to go here and I know how to get there.

In other words, I know what mountain I want to climb and I know what I have to do to learn how to climb it.

That's what he's lacking.

And I can tell you that if you solve that and help him solve it,

then you can do what Dave is saying and he begins to see a path forward because you have to honor this desire to be a stay-at-home mom.

You don't have to do it right away, but we've got a clear path to doing it.

You've told us what you want.

That's it.

You want to be there.

But you've got to make it make sense.

And the way it makes sense is if he gets in a career path that has good quality insurance because you've got chronic health care and obviously will cover maternity for second baby and those kinds of things.

And he has some upward mobility, upward trajectory with his income and a ladder to climb and be about the business of climbing it.

So hang on the line.

Here's what I want to do.

This is my gift.

And

this will help.

I'm going to give him the book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do.

It has an assessment in it.

It's called the Get Clear Career Assessment.

Have him take it.

And it's going to spit out a lot of great, easy to understand information.

I won't unpack it here on the call, but that's going to help him with where he can go and how he can get there.

He reads the book after he takes the assessment, and I'll walk him step-by-step what to do.

That's going to really, really help.

I'm also going to give him a copy of my book, The Proximity Principle, which is his next step of homework where he begins to get out there and connect with people in the places that he wants to end up professionally.

And if that happens, just like the baby steps, he will find something, and you guys will be able to make this plan for your life happen.

But it's not by osmosis, it is through intentionality, and it can be done.

Yeah, and so he should be in the 250-300 range soon.

Yeah, yeah.

Your

analysis is based on the current set of facts,

and the third option is create a new set of facts.

Yep,

Charity is in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

Hi, Charity.

How are you?

Good.

How are you, Dave?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

So

my car broke down in traffic yesterday.

It turns out it needs about $5,700 worth of work.

Who said?

And it says that again?

Who told you that?

The mechanic shop.

At the dealership?

Not at the dealership.

It was just a mechanic shop that we went to.

Okay.

What's wrong with it?

What's wrong with the car?

It

I think they said the rack and pinion, the control arm bushing, basically a lot of the front end is uh needs a lot of work.

So I'm not sure.

The rack and pinion does not collapse in traffic.

No, I thought it was, they did say the steering pump was part of it as well.

Um,

so it got to a point where I was trying to turn and it got really hard to turn.

Okay.

That, that, that, your, your power steering went out.

Okay.

That causes collapse in traffic.

And then they found everything else they could find wrong with the car that's been wrong with the car for the last year and a half and added it onto the ticket.

Correct.

Yeah.

So bullcrap.

So it is about a 10-year-old car.

It's completely paid off.

It's had some class action lawsuit things against it.

Put a steering pump on it.

Steering pump.

It's not $5,700.

Okay.

So that's kind of what I was interested in was just,

you know, the car when it's running, it's worth two to three grand.

And I mean, we're on baby step three.

We already, I mean, we have an emergency fund.

Our goal is 20K

13K in our emergency fund so far.

What's your household income?

About $105,000.

Okay.

As soon as you get your emergency fund done, I want you to start working on saving up for a car.

And move up in car because this car is a piece of crap.

I agree with you.

Yes.

But right now, you don't have the money to replace it, do you?

Well, let me add that we do have $7,000 in a brokerage non-retirement account.

Why is that not in your emergency fund?

Well, that's what we were going to call and ask is

should that be

in your emergency fund.

Now, if that's in your emergency fund, how much is in the emergency fund?

$13,000.

Okay.

And your goal is what?

Our goal is $20,000.

We haven't had a lot of margin in our budget just due to plumbing and household maintenance things.

Power steering pumps going out.

And yeah,

okay.

Sure.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm going to move the brokerage into your emergency fund, finish your emergency fund.

I'm going to upgrade the car.

In the meantime, you've got to fix the power steering pump because you've got to get the thing operating.

But you don't spend $5,700 on a $2,000 car.

That's a mechanic that you don't need to do business with.

But even suggested that.

That's asinine.

Many of you listen to the Ramsey Show because you're sick and tired of getting nowhere with your money.

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But here's the deal: just listening to the show won't change that.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studios.

I'm Dave Ramsey, Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author and host of Front Row Seat, is my co-host today.

Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Rob is in Los Angeles.

Hey, Rob, how are you?

I'm doing great, Dave.

How are you guys?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

That's awesome.

I am 48 years old, married with two kids,

and unfortunately, have been diagnosed with

stage four cancer.

I've been fighting the disease for a couple of years now, and through that fight, I exhausted my 401k,

and basically, my family has been surviving off of my disability income of $2,800 a month.

We don't have any assets

on a house or anything like that.

And on Sunday, Dave, I had a miracle happen.

I won $100,000

on

NFL fantasy football contest.

And I am freaking out and have no idea what to do because I'm sick.

So all the traditional

steps that one would take to improve their lives,

I was just at a loss for words.

Wow.

I'm wondering what you would do.

Well, I've never been there, so I'm not positive.

What a challenging situation.

I think

the first thing that popped into my head is

don't lose it all trying to replicate it.

Okay.

In other words, don't put $100,000 back into sports betting.

No, I know that.

I know that.

You probably probably got your one miracle.

I don't think I'd stretch God on this, okay?

Yes.

So, yeah, I mean, because that temptation's got to be there a little bit.

Like, hey, now I've got this thing figured out.

No, you don't.

Like you said, you called it a miracle.

It's luck.

It's whatever.

And it's a provision for your family.

But don't, for God's sakes, don't use it to create more betting.

Okay.

Is that fair?

Yes.

Yes.

Absolutely.

That's the first thing that pops into my mind.

Then I don't know that, I mean, $100,000 is a lot more than you had, and it's a good thing.

It's certainly not enough to sustain a family of three, a wife and two kids, if you're in heaven, right?

Correct.

So it does help, though.

We're not, you know, it's wonderful.

I'm glad you got it.

So how do we make that work?

You guys have got your household budget currently set up on the disability?

You're living on 28?

It's difficult.

My wife

gigged a gig job.

So she's, you know, if she brings in a hundred bucks a day, we're lucky.

So

what's her job?

Peter to pay Paul.

What's her job?

What is her job?

She's like a she delivers groceries, a gig app, you know, like a DoorDash type thing.

Where is her family and your family?

I just have have my dad is the only one left, and her family is all here with us.

So she has that support when something does happen to me.

Okay.

I've never heard you at a loss for words.

Well, I'm trying to think of

I'm going to speak plainly, okay?

Can I have permission to do that?

Absolutely.

What's she going to do for a living to raise two children when you're gone?

I've tried to have that conversation with her.

It

never

turned out how I like it.

I don't think she knows.

And I think she is

putting it off.

Well, and she's afraid if she says it out loud that it's going to happen.

Yes.

Yeah, I mean, I don't, I understand.

That's we all process this pro this thing differently.

So,

yeah, what I would use the $100,000 for is to cause her

to get trained or certified in whatever it is she's going to do to raise these two kids, assuming your doctors are correct.

Yeah, there they are.

Okay.

You see what I'm saying?

So, I mean, if you spent $25,000 and she got a certification in X, Y, or Z that that allowed her to make $70,000 or $80,000 a year to be a widowed mom of two,

that's an incredibly good use of that money as far as I'm concerned.

Yeah, but don't hear Dave say that she's got to go to college.

We're not saying that.

We're saying we're going to find something very practical.

It does not take very long to get qualified.

It does not cost a ton, but it allows her to make a very decent living to be able to take care of her and the kiddos.

So I'm okay.

Let me give you another example.

I would include college as a possibility.

If it, yes.

So, like, for instance, has she got a four-year degree?

No, and we're 50, so

telling her to go back to college, I don't think that she's going to be able to do that.

I don't want to tell her to do anything.

I want her to be able to have enough income to feed her kids and live.

That's all I want her to do.

But

for her sake, I'm trying to help her.

Put you on the spot because you know her better than us, and we can't talk to her.

What should we do?

What would you have her do knowing her the way you know her?

I would have her get something like a hairdressing license or or

something like that

to where she could

maybe start something on her own or go rent a chair, but at least she would make more than minimum wage with something.

Of course, yeah.

And you need to make more than minimum wage.

Is she intrigued by that?

Ever talked about that kind of work?

When we first got together, I had actually offered to do that.

And, you know, we were so young that she didn't take me up on my offer.

And, you know.

Yeah.

Well, again, I think Dave's right.

I would set that aside with her and say, hey, here are a couple options.

Let her do some research.

You got to force this conversation.

And then say, all right, we're going to put some money aside.

That would more than take care of the qualification process for you.

But if she took $30,000

or $40,000 to live on and spent $60,000

during one year to get this thing that allows her to make 70 or 80 or whatever the rest of her life, that's providing for her and for the kids.

And I can't think of anything that's going to be a better investment

that's going to even come close to that kind of a return other than education, certification that that allows an income to be created, right?

Yeah.

Yeah, I think that's your provision to me is to set up a sustainable provision.

And it's hard to talk about because it's, you know, you don't, it's, it's,

man, it's painful.

What y'all are going through is horrible.

I'm so sorry.

But, um, but not talking about it is probably not a plan.

And so her not addressing the issue is not going to make you get well.

You're going to get well independent of whether she addresses the issue.

I'm not ill, but we plan my death every year in detail.

If something happens to Dave this year, how does the remaining parties survive?

And we go into it in detail, and that's an act of love.

And that's it.

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The Ramsey Investing and Retirement Hub is packed with interactive tools, resources that can help you get informed and not intimidated.

Check it out at ramseysolutions.com/slash retire, or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast.

Umberto is with us in Oklahoma City.

Hey, Umberto, what's up?

So, I am finishing up nursing anesthesia school in about nine months.

Um, unfortunately, haven't been able to work the last two and a half years.

Did you say you're finishing nurse anesthesis school?

Yes, sir.

Very good.

Okay, great.

So, I'm going to have a lot of loans up to like $275,000 coming out.

Wow.

But you ought to be making $300,000, right?

Yeah, $250,000 to $300,000.

Yeah.

Okay.

And you used to make what?

What are you making now?

Nothing?

Nothing now.

I was making about $100K as a nurse, just working a lot of overtime.

Okay.

So what are you going to do?

Live on nothing?

and pay it off in two years?

That's somewhat my plan, but also planning to get engaged, get married.

That doesn't cost much.

No, it doesn't.

It really doesn't.

But

wanting to do s I mean, not the most extravagant wedding I can afford, of course, but at least something that's nice.

I'm just curious on

if it would, if the best thing to do is just to live off nothing and peanuts and just pay off as much as I can, as fast as I can.

Yeah, absolutely.

Okay.

Now,

I've talked to my financial advisor as well, and he didn't make it seem that way that I should pay it off as soon as I can.

Then get a new financial advisor.

Yeah.

Gotcha.

And yet you called Dave because even you didn't think that sounded right.

Yeah, well, I had a buddy who just kept

what's it called, hammering me about it.

And I was like, well, I'll just call and see what I can learn.

Yeah.

Also, you got a really good friend.

So your friend's better than your financial advisor.

Yeah, that's good.

So here's the thing, dude.

The highest,

you have engaged in a ridiculous amount of debt and have gotten an awesome degree and career choice.

Okay?

So far, it's worked out.

But

other than NFL players, there's nobody dumber with money than doctors.

They're perpetually stupid with money.

Don't be a stupid doctor with money, okay?

You're making serious doctor money.

Use it to straighten up the mess that you've made and go become wealthy.

If you keep the student rolling around like you think it's a pet, so your financial advisor can get you to start investing so he can start getting commissions because you didn't fire him,

then that's just straight up dumb.

Man, can you know how much money you're going to have if you have no debt and $300,000 income and learn to live on less than that?

You're going to be a multi-bazillionaire.

But not if you screw around with this.

You'll just be another prop doctor.

My whole life, I've just kind of been always like, keep the minimum and just

make as much as I can and save up as much as I can.

That way I can do whatever I want.

Yeah, beans and rice,

rice and beans.

Hey, set a five, 25 grand.

I don't care for a wedding.

I don't mind.

What does she make?

She's actually finishing school, too.

In what?

Nurse Anesthesia.

Oh, okay guess where we met okay and um

yeah and so she's gonna be making the same kind of does she got the same mess

yeah she'll have the same mess oh geez

so we're gonna have a six hundred thousand dollar income and five hundred thousand dollars worth of loans right

yep

okay

so live like you make a hundred grand and get yourself a twenty five thousand dollar wedding and you guys tear the tear the hair can

please just go to the Ramsey Solutions website and put in what will happen after you're done with all this and you make $600,000 and you put $200,000 in investments a year.

How fast you will be worth $20 million will blow your freaking mind.

But go ahead and be done with this in like a year and a half.

Yeah, that sounds amazing.

Yeah, sit on a bean bag.

Don't eat out.

Tell your broke friends who have all these opinions, not the good friend that we have established.

You have one good friend, fire your financial advisor, live on beans and rice, rice and beans, and be completely free and making 600 grand two years from now.

Dude, you're going to have so much.

You're going to be able to do anything you want to do.

But if you screw around and keep this around, try to be,

I'm going to pay it off on a 10-year plan, I'm going to kill you because you will have wasted so much money.

You understand?

Yeah.

Dude, you got you.

this is amazing where you can be.

And, and, uh, but please, God, the number of times I've talked to people in your world that are 10 years later and they're still looking at those student loans like they're a pet.

They're keeping them around.

Well, I think we need to feed it a little bit just to keep it alive.

Oh, my God.

It's just you're, no, please, please, please.

The great news is you've got an incredible income potential.

The horrible news is you've got to dig out of a mess before you get to have the benefit of it.

No new beamers, no new houses,

no new, new, new, new, new, new, nothing.

Nothing, honey.

Clean up the mess.

And dude, you could, God, they're going to have so much money, Ken.

I get so excited.

Oh, I was going to say, I don't think you were passionate enough with that.

I think you should have been a little clearer about what you mean.

Sometimes you're a little fuzzy, Dave, with these callers.

Also, I do like the

carrying on of the rice and beans into the bean bag.

I also like that.

Oh, that's a good good handoff there.

I thought that was nice.

I like that.

You don't need a bunch of furniture.

Just get you a.

You know, you're one of the few around here that's old enough to actually remember what a bean bag chair is.

I do, and I still have a couple.

We got

a true story.

They're called, it's actually got a corduroy cover on it, but it is a bean bag for both my boys, and I love them.

I'll sit on them sometimes and watch football.

Very comfortable.

And then you admitted it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, it would have been worse if I said I had a water bed.

You remember those?

We've got a whole generation that has no idea there was actually a

water bed.

There's actually a bed and you put water in it.

You like floated around.

It was so obnoxious.

Glad those went away on the ash heap of history.

Yeah.

So, hey, man, you just, Umberto, you got such a, your future's so bright.

You got to wear shades, man.

I mean, seriously, it's incredible.

But you really knew need to decide to do this the right way, and that's super fast.

Yeah.

Well, you're addressing something that isn't just the medical community.

You got people who come out of school, good degrees, and they're going to get good jobs because of said degrees, and they've been living on nothing, and now they're going to make a really nice salary.

And Dave, the temptation, you know, is so strong to live on some of that money as opposed to not live on it.

That's

a challenge.

One mistake.

22-year-old just graduated from college.

gets the new job, the big girl job, the big boy job.

Number one mistake they make.

New car.

Yep.

Because they've been driving their high school hoopty all the way through college.

And

now I've got a license and a letter after my name.

And now I need to spend some money that I don't have and go buy a car I can't afford.

And yeah, so it's like they exhale and it sounds like BMW.

Yeah, exactly right.

Yeah.

Three more letters to add to all those fancy degrees.

Yeah, it's true.

It's exactly right.

So yeah, don't don't do that.

Get your mess cleaned up before you start buying cars and houses.

And then you can have the life you want.

I mean, it's incredible what you'll be able to do.

Absolutely incredible.

So very cool stuff, guys.

Very cool.

And on behalf of all patients in the world, we would like to have not stressed out doctors and nurse anesthetists taking care of us.

You're so stressed out because of your bills.

You know, we don't need you stressed out.

It's already a tough job.

You know?

I have

personally witnessed a couple of epidurals and I do not want those being done by a stressed out person.

Great point, yikes.

Get that away from me.

Yeah.

Hey, you guys, Rachel Cruz here.

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When John O'Leary was nine years old, he suffered burns over 100% of his body, was given a 1% chance to live, and he shares his expertise on overcoming adversity and how to live inspired with tens of thousands of people, hundreds of events a year.

He's spoken with us several times.

We've We've become good friends over the years.

Promoted the book that became a national bestseller called On Fire.

His story is breathtaking

and

amazing.

And

the only thing that's better than his story is the guy himself.

And so honored to have you with us, my friend.

Congratulations on all your success.

Dave Ramsey, I am grateful to be your friend.

Out of everything you said, that's what I'm most grateful for.

And I realize, man, this isn't my success.

This is God's hand hand in everything I've done, including the mess-ups along the way.

And there are many.

Some we track, some we bury, but God's grace has carried us forward.

So I get a call, and I get these calls occasionally from friends that have done some kind of movie or some kind of film.

Hey, come, we've got the

early release for the people that can help us promote it on their shows and stuff.

Come over and watch it.

And generally when I go, I'm like, oh, God.

And I got a call from John.

Hey, you got got to come see the movie on my life called soul on fire I went I had to get there just a little bit late because I got tied up in a

thing here at the office and when I got there I sat there and cried and cried and cried and cried and I know the whole story it wasn't like I didn't know what was coming I knew every every turning point every milestone in the story and I'm still it was so well written and so well acted I was blown away it's an incredible movie yeah

well Well, what makes it, I think, even more incredible is it begins with the words, a true story.

And it is.

And you and I were talking right before we started the show, but it's recorded in St.

Louis where I was raised.

The home scenes are recorded in my mom and dad's house.

The hospital scenes are recorded in the hospital where I was treated.

The place where I met my future wife was recorded exactly where she and I met.

And the place where she and I married is recorded in the church where we married.

The girl playing my wife in the film walks down that aisle wearing the dress she she wore.

So for us, it's not only an emotional, true story, they did such a phenomenal job of where they filmed and how they outfitted these characters.

And the lady that played your wife nailed it.

I mean, because your wife is special.

We all know that.

But she's a hero in the story.

I mean, she's incredible.

Well, my favorite part about the film is when you look at the movie poster, it's not a picture of Joel Courtney playing John O'Leary with his arms up celebrating his greatness.

They actually spun him around so you see his backside.

And it's a mosaic of all the individuals who were the hands and feet of Jesus, who were part of this kid's survival from fire to 100% of his body, should not have survived that.

But in some regards, the more miraculous story is embracing the scars, embracing your life and recognizing even in the midst of agony, you can be used for good.

You overcame, John, unimaginable.

burns, the mental, the physical, the emotional struggle, unbelievable.

And I know there are a lot of people that are tuned in today that are feeling like their future is unimaginable.

They cannot figure out how they're going to get out of bone-crushing debt.

I think few people could speak to them the way you can.

Having overcome what you have overcome, what would you say to that person who feels like they'll never get out of this debt?

They're behind.

They're never going to be able to live the life that they desire.

All right.

Me too.

And I lived that way not just when I was a kid in the hospital.

I think recovering can from physical injuries is far easier than the emotional ones.

So once I came home, like that alone is miraculous, but I buried the light and I kept it buried for 20 years.

My life changed in the back row of a church service.

My arms were crossed.

I was wiped out from the night before.

We won't go into the details of that, but I'd been out too late.

My life was just sideways, man, but I made it in.

And the pastor was talking about the gift of talents.

And he went through the five and the two and the one.

And then he came to me, like when the light goes on you.

And he said, and for those who feel as if you have no hope and no talent, and that might be the person you're speaking to there.

He said, listen to me, your life is a precious, priceless gift.

You got one job now.

It is to say yes to being used for good.

And I didn't even know what that meant, but I wrote it down as a 28-year-old, went to work the next day, doing construction at the time, in debt, struggling, wiped out.

And I got a call from a little girl who said, Mr.

John, will you speak at my school?

And And that simple yes to this girl to speak to three Girl Scouts, to not even be paid a box of Samoas for the effort.

Like we weren't killing it, man.

We were not crushing debt.

This wasn't helping anything.

But it was setting us on a path.

And in that room, a Rotarian came up and said, that was awesome.

Speak at my Rotary Club.

They don't pay.

They barely feed you.

But I went.

And then in there, Quantus, and then in there, a church service, and then a prison group, and this awkward, introverted nobody

just kept saying yes.

And it has led now over 20 years to being back on the Dave Ramsey show, to having two best-selling books, to being debt-free.

And now to have this film called Soul on Fire rolling into theaters around the country and around the world.

That's not my work.

It's God's hand and an answer of yes when the opportunity knocks.

The movie is Soul on Fire.

It's in theaters October the 10th.

Go and see it.

I will give you my personal guarantee that you will be glad you took the time and the little bit of money out of your pockets.

You will walk away inspired and ready to go, a soul on fire.

And John has definitely personified that since I've known him.

So

what do you hope viewers walk away from this film with?

I'm going to answer that in a long-winded way.

So

my hero is my dad.

You and I have talked about this before.

My favorite scene in the film is in the church when we get married.

You know, surprise, guys.

Like, I survived the fire.

It's going to be okay.

I don't know why Ramsey was crying.

I'm living right next to him in the seat.

Like he should be aware the kid's going to survive and have a good life.

Later on, I get married.

And they shot this with the girl walking down the aisle wearing my wife's actual wedding dress.

It's Dolly Left, Dave.

So they go to the left, and then you see this man rise in the second row.

It's not John Corbett, who's the actor who portrays my dad.

In the second row, it's the guy he's portraying.

That's my dad.

And so my dad rises, which he can't can't do.

He had Parkinson's disease, had it for 30 years before he passed away.

And when Sean McNamara, the director, yelled the word action, my heroic dad stands up.

And every time I see my dad in this film, man, I just, I lose it.

It's an incredible moment.

But back in May, I took my dad to the film.

And I thought I'd have him for years, decades probably.

And he held my hand the entire time.

And

when your dad holds your hand for that long, that's two, it's an hour and 40 minutes for your dad to hold your hand.

But at the end of it, I said, dad, what do you think about your film?

And my dad whispered back to me, because he had no voice, what a gift.

And what he was reviewing was not the film Soul Hunt Fire.

He had Parkinson's.

He'd broken every bone in his body, most of them twice.

He was financially struggling.

He

had been through two house fires, almost lost one of his kids in one of them.

And yet at the end of the life, man, he was able to look up at his son and say, what a gift.

So I hope people dance out of that theater saying, What a gift.

This story isn't my life we celebrate, man.

It's yours.

Doesn't make it easy, but God is working in this moment in your life, and your best is yet to come.

That is a gift.

That is, that's exactly right.

That's exactly how it works.

And after he saw that, he's passed away now, right?

Passed away on May 30th.

Wow, amazing.

The movie, my friend John O'Leary's life story, and you will leave with a gift.

Soul on Fire.

It is in theaters beginning October the 10th.

The book is on fire.

And if you ever have the opportunity to see John speak, you should.

He's spoken on our stages many times.

We've shared the stage many times on different things.

And he's a world-class communicator, as you can already tell.

So, again, nine years old, suffered burns over 100% of his body, given a 1%

chance to live.

But pain and hardships bring the greatest learning lessons.

And he'll show you how that works.

I can promise you.

You'll come away going, oh, okay.

I got no problems.

Love you, John.

Thanks for being with us, brother.

Love you, Dave.

Love you, Ken.

Congratulations.

Soul on fire in theaters, October 10th.

Our scripture of the day, Isaiah 45, 2, I will go before you and will level the mountains.

I will break down gates of bronze and cut through bars of iron.

Ella Fitzgerald said, it isn't where you come from that matters.

It matters where you're going.

Absolutely true.

All right.

Here's the top questions people have about online wills.

How do I know if I need a trust or if my estate is too complicated for a will?

Well, if your estate is worth less than a million dollars, getting an online will is probably a great option for you.

And actually, if it's worth more than a million dollars, it's probably still a great option.

Super complicated is what really matters.

It's not the size of it necessarily.

What do I need to start my online will?

Well, who do you want to get your stuff?

Who do you want to take control of your minor kids?

And who do you want to make decisions if you're incapacitated?

That's a couple of the things they're going to ask, so be ready for them.

Is an online will legally valid?

Well, of course.

Silly.

Ramseysolutions.com slash wills quiz to find out if an online will is right for you.

Aaron is with us in Indianapolis.

Hi, Aaron.

How are you?

Good.

How are you, Dave?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

Nothing much, Dave.

So I want to be brief and to the point here.

I'm a big fan of your podcast and I've listened

recently as I've been traveling a lot.

And right now, I'm in a bit of a situation.

My dad passed away earlier this year, and he left back pension money from he was a union worker for my mom as a beneficiary.

So I'm calling on behalf of my mom.

And she is trying to find out what to do with that money that was left behind.

How much is it?

It's $126,000.

Okay.

Go to ramseysolutions.com and click on SmartFester Pro.

Find someone in your area that has the heart of a teacher that we have vetted and let them sit down with your mom and tell your mom what her choices are.

She needs to roll it into some good growth stock mutual funds into an IRA.

Yes.

So we were presented with a fixed index annuity.

Absolutely not.

Horrible.

No.

No.

Horrible.

Who presented that?

Someone who worked with my mom to help her build her trust right after this happened with my mom.

So

I immediately was kind of skeptical.

I had heard what you had said about it.

So I wanted to make sure I was making the right decision.

And help your mom build a trust.

Why does your mother need a trust?

She has property as well.

Yeah, but that doesn't mean you need a trust.

Yeah, that's what

we would advise.

You could just recommend that.

By the person who sells trusts?

No, no, by a different person who recommended us to the

person who

how much property does your mother have?

She has three different rental properties and then the current house.

How old is she?

She is 51.

Okay.

I personally would not put any of that in a trust.

It's complete overkill, and it's a complete pain in the butt to operate rental properties in a trust.

Because of the operational aspects of writing checks to fix the heat and air and everything else, I've got to go through the trust.

It's a pain in the butt.

They should just be in LLCs.

There's no benefit to them being in the trust.

So I think this is somebody that sells trust or doesn't know what the flip they're doing, one of the two.

So, no, I wouldn't do that.

But anyway, and I wouldn't do the other either.

So, so far, I don't like any of the people that have given you all advice.

I don't like any of the advice they've been giving you.

So yeah, I would get with the Smart Vestor Pro and do a rollover on the pension, and I would not put the houses in a trust.

I'd put them in LLCs.

And

there's just no point in it.

It doesn't do anything.

So, yeah.

I like it when you tell them, I don't like any of those people.

And that's that.

Charles is in Topeka, Kansas.

Hey, Charles, what's up?

Hey, I just got a question.

So I recently purchased my second home and I was able to ride in cash and we paid off all our other debts this year.

Doesn't that feel great?

It does.

I'm sleeping good.

I'll tell you that.

I'm in bed every morning.

I bet you are.

I'm proud of you, man.

Way to go.

What's your net worth?

Oh,

probably around, you know, $600,000 or $700,000.

Good for you.

Way to go.

Good for you.

But,

yeah, so after child care all my bills groceries that kind of stuff i have about two thousand left over and i want to know how much monthly i should throw into like retirement or you know custodial accounts for the kids because i you know kind of want to do some dumb stuff and go on vacations and do things like that so that's not dumb you've earned it you should go do those things

Yeah, so you've just got to lay it out and parse it out and go, okay, there's three things I can do with money at baby step seven.

I can have fun with it and I should.

I can be generous with it and I should.

And I can invest it and I should.

As far as kids' custodian accounts, how old are the kiddos?

Six months and two and a half.

Okay.

Yeah, I mean, you can put some in there.

I wouldn't overload it too much.

If you want to put some in a 529 instead and be thinking about college, that's fine or education of some kind.

Trade school also qualifies for 529s.

So whatever they're going to do, they're going to need some training post-high school.

And

yeah, I'll be preparing for that, but you don't have to go hog wild on that.

And you should be putting at least 15%.

You should have been before you paid off the house, 15% of your household income going into retirement accounts.

But at this stage, you ought to be doing more than that.

We were trying, but we were in a house that we probably shouldn't have been.

But I bought a fixer-upper and it's all worked out in the end.

Okay, so you got that behind you, so now you can put at least that away.

But you ought to be putting it a minimum of 15.

But at at Baby Step 7, I'd like to see you'd be doing more than 15% of your income into retirement and be doing something towards the kids' college and something towards fun.

And there ought to be room in this budget to do all that.

And just sit down with your Smart Vestor Pro and lay out your game plan on how we're going to invest, what we're going to invest in, and lay out your Roth IRAs, load them up, load up the Roth 401ks at work if you've got them,

and so forth.

And then you'll look up in just a few years and it'll be millions and millions of dollars.

It's kind of amazing how quickly it grows, how fast this life goes, for that matter.

Yeah.

You know,

for folks that are listening, watching, we have a lot of new folks coming all the time.

This is a great call as Dave's giving that advice.

You got to understand the baby steps are not a suggestion.

This is a tried and true plan.

And you refer to it privately, you know, in our building, in our meetings, that it's a clear path developed over time as you walk through with people in real-life money situations.

And I'm telling you, the fundamental truth about the baby steps, Dave, is that it creates massive financial and personal and relationship momentum.

It does.

It just does.

It does.

And

because

you're setting yourself free.

Yeah.

You're working like crazy and you're actually getting traction.

So many people with money feel like a rat in a wheel.

They feel out of control.

They're reactive instead of proactive.

And when you get the other side of all of that, guys, it really turns things around in every area of your life.

You know, Stephen Covey, all those years ago, had that book, and it's still on the bestseller list.

I look up total money makeovers on there.

Seven habits of highly effective people is on there.

Number one habit of highly effective people, they are proactive.

They happen to things.

Not everything happens to them.

So if you're in a situation and you don't like where you are, happen to it.

What is it we're going to do?

What kind of dynamite are we going to throw in the middle of this?

Pull the pin on the grenade, light up the room, baby.

Let's go.

There's something's got to change here.

And if you keep doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result, that's the definition of insanity.

That's what the 12-steppers tell us.

And so, you know, I can't seem to break the cycle.

Well, break the cycle then.

Yeah.

You know, it's genius how we know, we talk to people all the time, how hard it is for many people just to get through baby step one, which is to get $1,000.

And when you're broke, you know how hard that is.

But there's something about that.

It propels you beautifully into baby step two, which is where...

It's a tiny little confidence builder.

It is.

And it's hard sometimes.

And you get through that hardship.

Guess what happens?

Your shoulders come back a little bit.

You feel a sense of what Dave just talked about, self-control.

You did something that you didn't think was going to be possible.

And that's the magic of these baby steps.

Work the baby steps.

Not out of order.

One through seven.

Yeah.

One is before two is before three

is before four.

That's how that works.

And so don't call me up and ask me to change them, okay?

It'll be better for you and me both if you don't do that.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.

We'll be back with you before you know it.

In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.