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So, we're here to help you transform your life.

From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Wins Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show.

I'm Jade Warshaw.

Next to me, Rachel Cruz, taking calls from you guys for the next couple of hours about your life and your money.

You can get involved, and we hope that you do.

In the meantime, we're going to Matt, who's in North Carolina.

What's up, Matt?

Hey, how are y'all?

Good.

How can we help today?

Well, my wife and I have been looking at our numbers,

just the debt that we have, and we wanted to see what you guys would recommend.

Now, I've got about 60,000 in just various debts aside from my mortgage, and we just want to figure out how to get rid of those in a systematic way.

I love that.

Do you want to list those 60,000 of debts out for us, like the type of debt and how much each one is worth?

Yeah.

Yeah, I can do that.

Great.

So I've got about 900 for a cell phone.

Got about 1,900 for medical bills.

I have a truck that's about $29,000.

I've got our family van that's about $9,600.

And a credit card that's about $11,000.

And then a loan from my family for about $12,000.

Wow.

How old are you guys?

I'm 33, and my wife is 30.

When did you guys kind of tally everything up, Matt, and just realize, okay,

here's where we are.

Was that a recent conversation with you and your wife, or is it something that you guys have been

doing?

I've been wanting to do a budget.

It's been my fault because

I say I've been busy, but I could have made time.

But we did it yesterday, actually.

Oh, yeah.

So was yesterday the first time you saw all these numbers together in one place?

Yeah.

Okay.

A little while, yeah.

Yeah, that's fine.

Okay.

So what were you thinking, dear?

When you saw it, what did you think?

Did you think it was more than what you would have guessed?

Or was it pretty spot on?

Yeah, I mean, it was around what I was thinking, and then I was like, what have I done?

What am I doing?

Yeah, I was going to ask the same thing.

What caused, do you know what caused this?

It's for you, does this feel like an income thing or does it feel like an overspending thing?

Which, by the way, I didn't ask what is you guys' income

so well i started a new job um i'm an insurance agent now and i make about a hundred thousand um now i've gained about twenty thousand since last year i started at eighty

um but it was i was just looking at monthly stuff because i i'd wanted to get a newer vehicle because my other one was wearing out and it was paid for i should have kept it yeah but um it's just we're both we're both spenders and we realized that yesterday and we're like you know we're wasting too much money what about your wife is she working outside the house?

No, she stays at home.

We have three children under three.

Oh, Lord help you.

Okay.

Got a house full, Matt.

Yeah.

Okay.

So it sounds like typical lifestyle creep.

You've got a $20,000 raise and you're just like, well, I can afford this payment.

I can afford this.

And this is good.

We'll just kind of keep going and enjoy that.

$20,000 of margin.

And then it turns out $20,000 in debt more so.

Yep.

Yeah.

So I would suggest, I mean, I know you're kind of new to this.

You just laid this out the other day, but I'm going to suggest the debt snowball, which is what we suggest to everybody, which is you're listing the debt smallest to largest.

The method is you pay minimum payments on everything so that you don't get behind.

Because if you get behind, then it really gets out of control.

So make sure you're making minimum payments on everything.

But all of your extra margin is going to go towards the smallest debt with a vengeance.

Like you're going very, very quickly.

And so as much margin as you can find, which leads to my next question.

I'm assuming that you don't have any savings lying around anywhere.

Is there any extra money that we should know about?

Stocks?

I mean,

I've got some crypto.

It varies.

It's XRP, so it'll be $270 one day and the next day, you know, it'll be up or it'll be lower.

And I've got some in NVIDIA.

It's not much.

It's about $210 worth.

Okay.

So just some plan.

I'm not going to mention the mortgage too on the house.

So I was going to say that.

Yeah, just tell me what the mortgage is, by the way.

$218.

$218.

And what do you pay every month for that?

$16.28.

Matt, is your job, what do you do for a living?

I sell just auto, home,

insurance.

That's right.

That's what you were saying.

Okay.

Is there

margin for overtime in that position?

Whether that's getting like more, like working more just to get more commissions and more accounts or from like a salary perspective, even, what would that look like?

Well, see, since I'm 1099, I was given a book of business when I got here, but it's my job to, you know, I can grow it as quick as I can because I mean, I work 24-7 if need be.

So, yep, yep, okay, okay.

Because the way I'm looking at this, I mean, it's

added up close to 60,000

and you're making $100,000, and that's probably before tax

and health insurance and all of that.

So,

yeah, are you contributing anything to retirement at all?

No.

No.

Okay, perfect.

Yeah.

So what Jade's saying, I mean, that's it.

I mean, you know, Matt,

the problem is going to be you and your wife.

I mean, you know what I mean?

Because you're going to have to change the way you've been handling and viewing money like a 180.

Like you said, we're both spenders, which I appreciate the self-awareness.

I get it.

I'm a spender.

Like, I understand.

And so you're going to have to do things that you've never done before.

You're going to have to say no to yourself in places that you've always just said yes, because of course we'll just go to it.

Of course, we'll just just do this.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Where things didn't seem like a big deal, everything's a big deal now.

It kind of feels like everything's on fire, even though you guys are gonna be fine.

It's not like, okay, you know, bankruptcies are on the corner.

It's not that, but the sense of urgency, like what Jade was saying earlier, is gonna be, have to be notched up like 10,000 notches for you guys specifically.

You know what I mean?

Because we talk to some people and they're

they're natural savers.

It's okay.

But when you have two spenders, which again, it's not a bad thing.

It's just how you guys are wired.

This is going to just take that much more of a discipline.

And so, yeah, paying it off.

But I'm like, yeah, get the cell phone out.

Do the get the medical debt.

Have some lofty goals.

That if you, even if you worked extra at a different job, whatever is more lucrative for you to make extra money.

I don't know if that's working more at just like the insurance job to get more accounts or to

work more.

Yeah.

And if you can up it, Matt, I'm not kidding.

You know, I mean, people are driving or doing like Uber Eats and making a thousand easy.

So like that's your, that's your low bar.

You know, if I'm you, I'm like, I'm I'm making two, three thousand extra a month, and you can start knocking this stuff out.

Pretty, you'll start to see a lot of progress, which is great.

When you plug these numbers, have you plugged this into an every dollar budget, Matt?

No, not yet.

Um, got the, we had that app, and then we stopped using it because I slacked off on it, and that was the problem.

Okay, but um, I wanted to ask real quick before I forgot.

Um, I did have an offer for a dealership to buy my truck for about 25 or so, and I have 29,000 on it.

Do y'all think it'd be a good idea to just go ahead and sell it?

Yes, but not to them.

Okay.

Do a private sale.

Because if the dealer's giving you 25, then the private sale would get 29, I bet.

But the key is, now I don't know how long you guys can go with just the van, but the key is you're going to have to stack up some cash, right, to get something in the meantime to get you to and from work.

And you don't have to spend a lot on it.

Maybe you spend $6,000 on it.

But just know that, yeah, for a while you guys are going to be a one-car family which that could be a challenge with three under three but all things are possible so yeah i mean there's there's families here that the you know i mean honestly the wife drops them off at work and and they go you and sam are a one-car family for for a decade rachel cruise yes so listen it is doable matt doable so it's just again it's gonna your life is just gonna look different for a period of time and then you guys can get back and enjoy the fruits of your labor and be some great responsible spenders and have fun.

Like that's not the bad, that's not bad or wrong, but you just got to do it in the right order.

And you guys went out of order spending more than you make.

So,

yeah, homework is every dollar.

You got to get on there tonight, you and your wife, and we'll hook you up with a trial of the new every dollar, the new and improved one, because that's really going to help you out.

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In Columbia, South Carolina, Samantha's online.

What's up, Samantha?

Hey, Jade, how are y'all?

Thank you for taking my call.

You bet.

How can Rachel and I help?

Yeah, so my husband and I are 11 months into Baby Step 2.

We're putting like three or four thousand a month toward our debt.

Way to go.

Yeah, we paid off four credit cards and one of four student loans.

Oh my gosh.

Good for you guys.

Yeah, thank you.

So the last three student loans are kind of our big fish.

And we were on track to get those done.

We have about $100,000 left.

So we're on track to get those done in about two years.

But my husband is a federal employee.

And

with the government shutdown, we are experiencing a hold in his paycheck.

So

about half of our monthly income right now is being held.

Dang how much is that?

5,400 take home right now

out of 11,000 take home

a month.

Yeah.

So we're just kind of trying to get by but I guess in the future to be prepared for this, again, I was wondering if this would be a weird situation where we maybe

go to baby step three and save an emergency fund and then come back and hit those last three student loans hard.

I don't know if I would do that, but I think I would pause baby step two right now.

I probably, I would not be, I mean, you guys don't even have it.

Yeah, you don't have money to put extra, right?

Because you were putting 4,000 margin.

Yeah.

Are you guys able to stay current with all the bills, all your bills, even housing and all of that?

Yeah, it's going to be, it's going to be tough for the next month.

I don't know.

But I'm just really thinking in the future, if this happens again, that's kind of where I was going with that.

So as of now, yes, everything's been halted.

We're making minimum payments on everything

since middle of October, you know, two years ago.

Sure.

Yeah, the only

time we were.

Yeah, I hear you.

Yeah, I hear you totally.

But really, the only time that we would suggest that is if there's something in the immediate future that you're certain of.

Like, oh, there's going to be, like, we have people call and they're like, okay, they're laying us off in three months.

We would say, like, sure, pause everything, pile up an emergency fund because it's happening.

Or even a health situation, you know, like there's a family member or child that's sick.

We would say, okay,

get some funds in place because you know that's going to be some ongoing challenges.

But I hear, and again, we're in the middle of a government shutdown.

So it's harder for me to say this to you to be like, we don't know if it's going to happen again.

But it is a question of like, I don't know when it is.

If it is, who knows?

And because of that uncertainty, you almost would think I would want an emergency fund because of that.

But I would actually say, because it is uncertain, you don't know what's going to happen.

So I would rather get this debt cleaned up faster because of it.

So that's what I would suggest.

There's more peace there because if you think about it, just in terms of the numbers, let's pretend that instead of paying off the $100,000 of debt, you stacked up, I don't know, $20,000, right?

Well, now you still have all the payments that you have to pay along with your normal month-to-month budget.

So you're still going to clip through savings a lot faster because you've got this extra debt there.

Whereas if you said, I'm going to focus on paying off my debt first, then if it rains and pours and maybe you have a little bit less saved because it's, you know, you haven't had as much time, your lifestyle is still.

paired way, way, way, way down, right?

So you're not having to pay debt payments on top of whatever it takes to live.

So I really, I get where you're coming from, but at the end of the day, I think there's more peace in having no debt and payments when things like this strike versus having, it's almost like insult to injury when you have to use hard-saved money to pay payments.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So

no, we would still say probably be gazelle intense, Samantha.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, sorry you're going through that.

Hopefully that gets cleaned up.

You know, I've had so many people message me on Instagram and thankfully more on the positive end of, you know, they're, they're probably three years from where Samantha is because they're like, oh my gosh, if we didn't have an emergency fund and we weren't used to living on less than we make and the government shut shutdown happened because they've lost, you know, they're like, we're good.

Like we, we have six months saved.

Like we, we're able to, we're able to like even squeeze our lifestyle down.

And we're okay with that because they've walked through paying off debt.

You know, so there's like the saving grace of why to do this

as fast as possible because if and when life happens,

you're set.

That's right.

And if you know you do have a job that has the propensity for layoffs or things like that, it is good to kind of know.

It's like having an emergency plan.

Do you know what I mean?

Like if there's a fire, you know where the exits are.

It's the same thing.

If you're in a job where, hey, I kind of know like a layoff could happen from time to time, or in the case of a government, a shutdown could happen from time to time.

And knowing, okay, when that happens, here's what we do.

Here's what our budget looks like.

These are the things we cut out.

This is how we live.

And we know that that's kind of our plan.

But it could go four or five years without it.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

And you don't need it.

That's right.

That's right.

All right.

Let's hit the phone line again.

We've got Sean in Washington, D.C.

Maybe he can tell us something.

What's up, Sean?

Hi, good morning.

Oh, Afternoon, ladies.

Thank you for taking my call.

You're welcome.

I'm sorry I said it was a he.

I like Sean as a girl's name, too.

Thank you.

So just a little background about me.

I am in my early 30s.

I live just outside of DC, but on the Merlin side.

I don't have any kids.

I'm single.

I just received a really good job offer for my first six-figure job.

So I'll be making $100,000 soon.

Congratulations.

Thank you so much.

So my question is, I do want to buy a house next year.

I just renewed the lease on my current apartment.

I'm currently paying $1,300 a month for my apartment.

Next year, I do want to purchase a house, but I have student loan debt that's about $18,000.

So my question is, do I just save up?

for the down payment on the house or just pay off the student loan since I'll finally be making six figures now.

Listen, I love that you're making six figures.

I I think that that is so exciting and I'm happy for you.

That's really a milestone.

If I were in your shoes today, Sean, my biggest priority would be twofold.

Number one, I'd be like, I'm getting these student loans out of my life once and for all.

They've been around long enough.

I make, you know.

18, you can do this.

Yes.

I make six figures.

I'm going to knock them to the curb.

as fast as possible.

Then, if you're really considering home ownership, let's talk about this in real talk, which is what you'll really need.

It would be foolish foolish for you sean to just roll out and buy a house with no savings can you agree with that because once you buy a house everything's on you the air is on you the roof is on you the yard is on you something breaks it's on you right so the better way to enter that would to make sure be to make sure you have three to six months saved could you agree with that

Yes, that's more reasonable.

And I have looked into first-time home buyer programs.

And one of the stipulations I found was a program that offered to pay off my student loan debt, but it will not give me an additional funding for, let's just say, the down payment.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, a lot of those programs, Sean, are, I mean, honestly, towards people that are broke.

I mean, and trying to get them in a house.

And so right now, I would say for you, yeah, those probably look appealing because you're like, I can get this faster.

But I think this one-year timeline, that's just self-imposed, right?

No one's forcing you to buy a home next year.

You just want to, right?

Yes.

Of course.

Yes.

I know 100%.

And I don't want to be able to do that.

And we want that for you.

Yes, 100%.

And I think the new income has got you excited to be like, oh my gosh, I can actually start doing making some big moves.

But if you start making moves out of order, it causes way more stress down the line.

And so, yeah, I'm with, I'm with Jade.

I would be, I'd pay off the 18,000.

I'd save up an emergency fund.

And for you, honestly, Sean, it could be three months.

Like, start with three months.

Yeah.

You have a solid job.

You don't have anyone dependent upon your income, like kids-wise or a spouse or something.

You know, like you're in a good spot.

Three months would be totally fine with me.

And then save at least five percent for a down payment because what those things are gonna force especially down payment forces you out of these programs of what you're talking about yeah um because again they're gonna have terrible um they got adjustable rate mortgages i mean they have terrible interest rates usually they they lock you into something

um and it's and it's not worth it long term i want you free of everything any program any debt all of it sean um so yeah getting out of debt an emergency fund first and then and so that may pump the brakes i mean maybe nine months sean to 12 months maybe for you to do this.

Well, I mean, I will, I will interject this.

If you can, at 5% down, if you can get a payment, that's 25% or less of your take-home, yes.

But if you have to bump up that down payment to get that, you don't want to be more than 25% of your take-home.

And that's talking HOAs, taxes, insurance, all of that in that payment.

Sean, can't be more than 25% of your take-home or else you'll be calling us back.

Yeah, maybe not next year, but maybe three years after.

Yeah.

But just do that math.

Yes, the calculators on ramseysolutions.com, Sean, that you can use how much mortgage can I afford, and it's going to help you figure out what your down payment needs to be so that your month-to-month is okay.

I've been doing this show for over 30 years, and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable.

Yeah, and what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible, are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance.

We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids, pregnant, and husband didn't have life insurance.

And I'm like, I can't even imagine.

Or even if it was opposite, right?

If a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out how am I going to afford childcare?

How do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing?

And it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level.

Like when you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills, how am I going to do it next week?

Yeah, in the middle of all that grief.

Like it's just, it is, it's terrible.

And so life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive.

Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance.

And we keep re-upping it because I'm like, I just want it there.

Like there's something about that safety of knowing.

that you have money if something suddenly happens.

And it doesn't cost much because Xander shops among a gazillion different companies.

It doesn't cost much.

You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here.

You got to say it out loud and you got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place.

It costs us stinking pizza.

There really is.

So that is one thing to do to say I love you to your family.

So we've used Xander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance.

To get a free quote, go to 800-356-4282.

That's 800-356-4282 or go to xander.com.

All right, we're continuing to take calls about your life and your money.

Tell us your situation.

We've got Lewis in West Palm Beach, Florida doing just that.

What's up, Lewis?

Hey, guys, good afternoon.

Thank you so much for taking the call.

I love you guys and everything that you do.

Well, thank you so much.

Thanks for calling.

So to keep it short, pest control business, service business, we got through COVID really, really well and, you know, got a big head, spread into five different cities, and we spread ourselves way too thin, but didn't realize it at the time.

Took a while, but we threw away all the money we had, allowed myself to get up to my gills and credit.

Any credit that was offered, we took it, trying to get through a cool phase.

It wasn't a fade, it was just a bad setup.

And ultimately, kind of last February, we realized, hey,

the game is over, right?

So we sold off, you know, the businesses that we could to get the investors their money back, and they were made whole.

But we kind of found ourselves with a lot of bills, a lot of credit, a lot of debt, and a business that wasn't really earning enough, anywhere near enough to make that happen, to make the numbers work.

So during that time, obviously, like many, we're in a horrible spot, kind of rock bottom, you would say.

And I found Dave Ramsey and all the teaching you guys do.

And I should have probably sold the house, sold the expensive car, sold everything we owned.

But instead, I just dialed back any expenses we had, no nights out, no kind of fun money, none of that.

And I said, let's give it two months to rebuild as strong as we can, as hardcore as we can, and see where we land.

And it wound up working.

We've quadrupled in the last eight months, and now things are finally in a place where we feel better, and we know that we're going to a good place.

Oh, great.

Wow.

What a turnaround.

But my question is, I felt super irresponsible for my family, for my child.

Hey, do we cut these things?

Do we need to?

And I'd just love to have a little more insight of, you know, how well, how, how much should you trust yourself in a turnaround or when you realize you're making stupid decisions, go down to the basics.

Like, should we have cut, should we not?

Because it could have very easily been 10 more months of failing, and then we would would have done dug a deeper hole.

Sure.

And God forbid, you know, we're never there again.

But

yeah, I hear what you're saying.

Because you didn't cut certain things out of your lifestyle, if the business had not quadrupled, you still probably would be in a bad spot.

Yeah.

That's what you're thinking.

Yeah.

Do you know the motivation, Lewis, of why you guys wanted to keep the house and the car?

My wife trusted me with a lot of the decisions, and that may be a good or a bad thing, but I didn't want to, first off, I didn't tell her how bad it really was, and maybe that was a bad idea.

But I didn't want her to to face the music the way I was trying to privately yeah and I said all right let me see if we can get ourselves past this and and save her that hurt and and that you know that because she's been through enough I thought was any of that about you saving face too if she didn't know the extent of it no no no okay no not at all if she knew she'd still be there she's amazing I just didn't want to put her baby for any of that I think the biggest thing here is understanding um

wisdom that you've learned going forward because there's a lot of things that got you into this mess.

And I think that a lot of times when we come out on the other side of things, if we haven't really examined what it was that got us there in the first place or all of the things that got us there in the first place, yeah, there's the fear that can I trust my choices?

Can I trust my judgment going forward?

But if you've done the work of examining that and understanding why you did what you did and why you're not ever going to do that again, then you can have a little bit more confidence.

In this case, yeah, I am seeing

just some frivolous behavior, obviously, with money, but then there was the secretive nature of keeping certain things from your wife.

I think there's just some behavior that going forward can't be the case.

So I know if I were in your shoes, Lewis, going forward, I would be completely transparent with your wife about money and make sure that you guys are both owning roles within how you're handling money.

So it can't all fall on you.

It can't all fall on her, but together you guys are in this and understanding what's our main priority.

Why are we building what we're building?

Why are we doing the things we're doing?

Because it can't just be for

the exterior, right?

That's right, that's right.

The house and the cars and all those things.

Uh-huh.

Yeah.

The two things I would say, Louis, from like beyond just the nuts and bolts of the math side of what got you guys there, which I think you know.

But two things we run into a lot.

And I, and I commend you, first of all, I just applaud you for even asking the deeper questions because a lot of people will just kind of get through it and not really think through what got me here in the first place and what's going on within me because we're the ones handling the money.

It's the people, right?

It's not the math and all of that.

Like we're the ones making the decisions.

And so understanding ourselves is really important.

And so I would say isolation is negative.

No more isolation.

It's kind of what Jade just said.

And I think you isolated yourself from your wife and from the reality of what was going on.

And you were just trying to.

do it yourself, which again, I commend you for doing it.

There's a lot of wives listening right now.

They're like, I wish my husband would step up, but it was too, it was too extreme that way, you know, like you can't be isolated in it.

And for your sake, Lewis, but also for the relational.

There's so much to be said when a husband and wife work together as a team with their money that does far and far and above more than just the finances.

So there's just something really big relationally that you miss.

And you do it to protect her.

I hear you.

But it almost can end up not even just hurting, but it can continue to put a wedge a little bit because you feel like you have to hold a certain level of truth with her to protect her.

But yet she's a grown woman, Lewis.

She's a grown-up.

That's a good one.

And so she has to be able to handle the reality of her situation too.

And you may feel the brunt of it because she gave you a lot of the responsibility, but she doesn't need to do that either.

She needs to say, Lewis, I'm so sorry that I put all of this on you.

I have a functioning brain.

I'm an adult.

And I'm going to have my strengths and weaknesses just like you do.

But together as a team, we're going to sit down together as a married couple and lock arms and be a team.

And then the second thing I would say, Lewis, and I'm going very stereotypical here.

So forgive me if I'm totally off base, but I'm going to put the dudes more in this category that I'm about to talk about.

And then I even see West Palm Beach.

I see, you know, I see Florida.

And I see.

I know where you're going.

Yeah.

And the ego hates going backwards.

Oh, man.

Yes.

And so when you feel like I have to sell a car, a nice car, and that lifestyle?

Yes.

Hello.

And then downgrade a house.

Yes.

The ego is shot to the extreme.

And again, stereotypically, I think guys feel this a little bit more.

Like, I think there's something about saving face, like what you're saying.

So, those are the two things I would watch, Lewis, next time from an internal perspective.

Am I isolating myself?

And is my ego in charge or am I in charge?

Yeah, yeah.

What do you think?

I think you guys agree.

Well, thanks.

I think there's something to ponder and kind of sit on there on the side of the wife.

I think it was one of those things when rock bottom hit, I said, okay, cool.

I think I can manage this and I don't need to put her through it.

But you're right, maybe it would have been better to go through it together.

So there's a lot to chew on there.

And there is something to be said for, I mean,

selling a house is a huge deal.

And if you felt like, hey, I'm going to ride this out for X amount of months.

And if I'm not here by, you know, if I get to that stopping point and it's not any better, then I got to let go of the house.

Right.

But if you made it there, then it's great.

You got to keep that house.

So

I don't know what, did you do that?

Or?

So just to give slightly more context, again, I hate to take up too much time with other callers needing help as well.

It was, you know, when I was younger, I moved 30 times.

We were super unstable, you know, as a, as a family when I was younger.

So I just said, hey, it was absolutely no ego.

I just didn't want my family to ever have to feel unstable.

I hear that.

Yeah, that's fair.

That's totally fair.

And it wasn't about the car or whatever.

Like, you know, yeah, it was dumb to buy a car, but, you know, for whatever reasons, it was just about having stability, especially for a young child and not having her love this home and make friends and a school and everything.

And

check her out and go on out somewhere.

So that was.

was.

Listen, Lewis, I think at the end of the day, you went through something and it was a learning experience for you.

And that is part of most of our stories.

And I'll say this.

Dave says this a lot for himself

because you sound very entrepreneurial.

I mean, you're a very smart guy.

I mean, he's growing businesses and doing all this stuff, but you can't out-earn your stupidity.

And Dad says that a lot.

And I think that could be another thing to think through because you kind of out-earned it.

You probably worked your tail off to get these businesses revenue to be able to cover up some of the mistakes.

Yes, that's right.

Which in one way is fantastic because you know you work and yes, and you can bring in revenue and all of it, but you can't out-earn it.

And so that's a little bit of the band-aid over the situation

is that you earned so much that you could get out of it, which again, one side of the coin, that's fantastic.

But we got to deal, we got to deal with the root issues of how we got there in the first place from the nuts and bolts.

And then from just the perspective of who we are as people and like checking ourselves because we can hold ourselves back a lot and make really stupid decisions.

Yeah, based on what feels good and what we want in the moment.

And we all do it.

We've all made those mistakes, but kind of tempering that side of it too.

I agree.

And I do think that when you've hit a certain layer in your income, which it sounds like Lewis has, making those sacrifices, it does hit different.

I'd almost rather someone call in who's, you know,

not hit that point yet.

It's almost easier for that person to go, okay, yeah, I'm just going to take to the streets and work hard and sell my stuff than the person who's kind of been living that life.

Then yeah, you're right.

Your ego does take a hit and that is tough, but it's good for you.

It's good, good medicine for the soul.

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All right, Sebastian's in Richmond, Virginia.

Hey, Sebastian.

Hey, how are you doing today?

Doing good.

How can we help?

Um, well, I just had a couple questions.

So, a little bit about my situation.

I'm actually a recent college graduate.

I graduated technically in August and I've just landed my first uh big boy job, as I would call it.

So, I'm going to be making 70 grand.

Cool.

Congratulations.

Thank you.

What are you doing?

Starting very soon here.

I am an associate research consultant for a real estate company.

Oh, good for you.

Great.

Yeah, so just a couple of questions.

And

so my plan going forward is they have a 401k with no match.

And

so I'm actually planning not to contribute to that.

Okay.

Okay.

So my idea is I have a Roth IRA currently.

I have about 4K in it.

And I'm thinking about doing about like 580 bucks a month into that so I can max it out.

Right.

And then I want to save the rest because I want to start.

Right now I have about 20K in savings and completely debt-free by the way as well.

Good.

And I want to get into house hacking maybe mid, maybe like June, July next year if I can.

Okay.

So let's talk about the investing part first.

I would rather you invest based off of a percentage than based off of a limit or a certain amount that you want to spend.

Okay.

so walking the baby steps, I don't know if you're familiar with it, but after you're out of debt, which you are, and after you've saved up three to six months of expenses, maybe you save up three or four months, whatever you decide, have you done that yet?

Just asking.

Yeah, yeah.

So I have

like 15K in a Roth IRA, like 2K in a savings account, and then like 4K in a Roth IRA.

So the three to six months of expenses is non-invested.

It's non-retirement.

It's literally a rainy day fund, Sebastian, for if something were happened, if you lost your job, if you had an emergency, this is liquid money that you can get to.

So I would suggest that needs to be your first order of business because here's what happens if you don't have it.

If something happens and you need to get your hands on, I don't know, $5,000, you would have to unplug your investments to get to it.

And you're working way too hard to be doing that.

And you'll get penalized too for bringing it out early.

Exactly.

So you need separate money.

Let's start on that first and just stack that up.

You can do that fast with $70,000.

It's just you.

Then after that, Sebastian, 15% is the number we're looking for.

Now, I'm with you on maxing the Roth first because for you,

that's the better advantage since your 401k doesn't have a match.

But depending on what you have, after you hit that,

after you max out that Roth, if you still have money left to invest, yeah, then go ahead and throw it into the 401k.

That's fine.

But do it based off of percentage of your gross income, not just,

you know,

the number I gave was just because I think it's what, like 7K a year is the max for me at this point.

So, yeah, seven to eight in the Roth.

And then for you, 15%, yeah, we'll be around 10,000.

Yeah, you have more to go.

You should be able to max it out with a couple of thousand left.

And Jay's just saying, put that 2,000 to 3,000 just in the 401k.

Even if you're not getting the match, it's still a great retirement vehicle just to put that 15%.

And then if you want to do investing beyond that, then we can talk about the house hunting or house hacking thing.

But yeah,

maxing out the Roth and then putting a couple of thousand more into the 401k every year is just a great starting baseline for you.

I like that you're thinking like that.

Yeah, that's amazing.

So what I'm thinking is, because I'm currently living at home, so my idea was, you know, purchase that first property, you know, as I'm moving out, right?

So like when I have obviously the baby steps done and then I'm obviously investing and saving, right?

The idea is to just kind of move out into that first house hack opportunity, which I'd hope to acquire sometime.

Which is what?

What do you mean when you're saying house hacking?

What do you mean specifically?

Like you're living in one side, the other person's living in the other?

Yeah, I was probably going to do

probably single family rent-by-room strategy.

So yeah, so probably just purchasing a single family and then having a couple different tenants living in there with me.

Here's the thing, though.

I'm going to give you two words of caution.

Number one is, let's say you do this.

You've got to be able to cover it without them.

So for instance, let's say you buy the house and the mortgage is a couple thousand, you know, $2,500 a month.

You've got to be able to cover that on your own to know that, hey, if for some reason these tenants don't pay.

Or I can't get tenants.

Yeah, or I can't get tenants.

It's not going to jack me because I can cover the mortgage.

Does that make sense?

Yeah, I 100% agree.

And that's what I was kind of hoping to call about.

Like, I know kind of, you know, there is a little bit of caution with, you know, the Ramsey sets and whatnot around, you know,

like leveraging yourself in real estate, but I'm kind of trying to figure out, like, to me there's no real difference between buying a single-family home as a primary residence just for myself and then doing it as a house hack as well.

Well, as long as at my baseline, I can cover that more.

Yeah, sure.

We're fine with that.

There's more to it, though.

And that was going to be my second word of wise.

Yeah.

If you, on the financial side, if you're doing what we said, sure.

But just remember, this is your first.

entrance into home ownership and you're doing it with two or three other people strapped to your back.

So for the layman, like for the lay person,

the first time they buy a house is already stressful because they're realizing for the first time it's all on me.

And so you're not only doing that for yourself, but now all these tenants are going to be counting on you if something happens with the AC, if something happens with the roof, if they get a leak in their bedroom, right?

So there's part of me, Sebastian, I think I'm not mad at this idea.

But there's part of me that wouldn't mind you if you did get the house.

You hang out there for a minute before and just like get your bearings about you before you're just up and having all these people yeah because i think it's just okay yeah you got to paint reality which is always hard to do if it's not been a reality but what jade's saying is because my my line of thought honestly sebastian is that's great you're a single guy if that's what you want to do and you can cover it even if they don't pay and you're like listen i can make so much money off of doing this and i'm going to save here whatever whatever that's your prerogative if that's what you want to do But I'm telling you, Sebastian, when you start making, you start going to work all day, you're making your income, you're coming home, you know, you're dating someone, you're doing this and that, you're gonna get tired, I think, tired of the roommate situation if it's just to get extra money.

Now, if you're going for a goal to be like, hey, I really wanna make an extra 20 grand this year, this is a this is a way I can do it.

And I'm, and maybe there's like an end point in your mind.

I don't know, but just the

endless idea of it overall, I just think you're gonna look up in probably maybe a year, maybe less, maybe a little more, and be like, I'm a

grown man,

a grown man, and I work and I pay my taxes, and I want to come home to a house that I can, I get to do what I want, clean, the kitchen is clean, I don't have to deal with roommates.

Do you know what I'm saying?

So, like, just always remember that.

But I think that's the line that I feel safe with you doing it: you've already said, I can cover the mortgage without anybody.

I'm going to just do it to make some extra money, maybe to hit a, you know, maybe it's a goal or whatnot.

So, so we're not against it.

We just know, I don't know.

Just think, think, we just want to encourage you to think about it from every angle.

Yeah, and I definitely agree.

Cause I think I have, because the end point for me is, you know, maybe house hack, you know, over the course of five years or so, four or five years, maybe do it, you know, two or three times, acquire multiple properties that way.

And then at that point, I'll able, I'll be able to get, you know, my own primary residence where whether it's, whether I just want to rent somewhere, like a condo or do whatever.

But I haven't thought that far ahead.

But the idea is, of course, I don't want to live with random people forever.

But

even as you expand wealth building tool in this aspect it seems kind of like i mean there's there's there's two alternatives it's either do this or go out and just afford the mortgage on my own or go and rent and just throw money at the wall the thing is

so it kind of seems like the optimal idea to me the thing is you've got if you do this i i i like it for the one house thing but if you're thinking about expanding this and going above and beyond you do know you got to do that in cash right

yeah so that's just that's the thing where i'm thinking of because you have some people who will say like you know just over-leverage yourself like crazy then you have Ramsey's side which is you know pay cash and all that.

So then you already know you gotta pay cash.

Don't put on the risk Sebastian.

You're young.

You are you are you know going to the world with all these ideas in your head.

It's got a lot.

But slow and steady wins the race over time.

People that keep wealth, they do it slow and steady.

It's not a get-rich quick thing.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show.

We're here in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, continuing to take your calls.

So call in.

The numbers 888-825-5225 and we will do our best to get you on the show.

I'm next to Rachel Cruz today.

I'm Jade Warshaw.

Let's get into it.

We've got Kim in Memphis, Tennessee, right down the road.

What's up, Kim?

Hi, so glad to be talking to y'all.

My husband and I, we have combined finances and Christmas is coming up.

And I want to know how to give and receive gifts from your spouse when you have combined finances.

I love this question.

It's such a marker of someone who's really trying to do this the Ramsey way, this question.

I'll tell you what I've done, and I know probably Rachel has her own take on it.

I am a lover of gift cards this time of year.

I'll go to like Costco or wherever I can get like the dollar of like Visa gift card that I can then take that money and spend it on whatever I'm trying to get for Sam.

And then he doesn't see it.

He might, of course, he'll see the gift card purchase.

So he might get an inkling for what it is based on the amount of the gift card, but he won't know what it is because he won't be able to see that transaction roll in through every dollar.

What is that?

What do you do, Rachel?

Yes,

a couple of things.

One, honestly, well, Kim, we're terrible gift givers to each other.

So I'll say that first and foremost.

We're not great at it.

But the times in the past that we have, two things.

Either it's an obvious holiday, like an anniversary or a birthday or Christmas.

And so Winston will be like, hey, I'm going to buy your gift.

Just don't look at the bank account.

And he'll delete it off of the every dollar.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Like, make a mark.

I'm like, I'll just put it back on.

Just don't look at it online and we're fine.

And I'm like, that's great.

Like, I know it's coming.

So, like, that's.

You're not snooping around yet.

Yeah, no, and I don't care.

I don't know.

I have three kids to deal with.

I'm like, I don't care.

That's fine.

Nobody gets home for that.

So that, or he did buy me a very nice ring

for our anniversary two years ago.

He got me a band.

And wow, you got to have some friends in high places to do that.

For sure.

You can't do that on a gift card.

Yeah, but he had a friend that bought it.

And then Winston paid them back.

Oh, after.

I love that.

But you got to have a friend to be able to do it.

And I did concert tickets one time and my mom bought them.

And I just told her, I'll write you a check after because Sharon does not Venmo, which makes me laugh.

So I still like, we'll write her a check if something happens.

So yeah, we'll do, we'll get around that way.

But you got to have like a good, like, you know, you got to have like a trustworthy source to do that.

So I don't know.

I don't know if that helps, but there's ways around it.

And I'll tell you this too, Kim, for people listening.

We will hear this randomly as an excuse not to.

bring in um to combine finances they're like well we give gifts and we can't because we give gifts and all this and i'm like y'all it's like three times a year and you're a really great spouse if you're getting like anniversary birthday and christmas like i don't know Are y'all gift givers?

Sam Warshaw has made me a gift giver.

Okay.

See, y'all are his family is gifty.

They are.

Yeah.

He's gifty.

And Sam.

And it's.

He has an expectation.

He's got an expectation.

I want a good gift.

Yeah.

And this man has expensive tastes.

I'm like, man, I gotta, I gotta rest.

What am I gonna do?

What am I gonna do?

Oh, my gosh.

Yeah.

But we'll pull the parent or the friend card sometimes to cover something.

Yeah, I like it.

That's such a good question.

That is the true mark of somebody who's trying to do this.

All right.

Thanks for the call.

We've got Kenny in Jackson, Mississippi.

Hey, Kenny.

Hello.

How are y'all doing?

Good.

How can we hope you're awesome?

Yeah, I have a question about life insurance.

So me and my wife have four children under six, and we do have life insurance for them.

It's a lot more than what y'all recommend.

We have $150,000 on each of them.

And some people have told me that they're really like, you don't need to be spending that much.

And some people are like, well, that's totally fine.

My thought process on having the $150,000 on each child was it's A, going to be probably the most thing if I, obviously, like, a child passes.

And having to be able to take significant time off work.

And then if we do have any debts at that time, to be able to pay that off.

I know you guys recommend.

20,000 and no more than that.

And I know that because I called Xander Insurance and they won't even sell anything over 20,000.

So that's Kimmy.

I got to break in.

I think you

I think you either got a hold of some wrong information, or I think you may be a little confused about how we teach insurance.

Can I explain it?

First off, I do want to say I love that you're thinking about that and you're thinking about how can I protect myself, my family.

The thought process is right.

The method for how you did it is a little off, but we can fix it.

So the purpose of life insurance is to help the person who is dependent on your income.

It's an income replacement.

So let's say your family, for instance, you've got the four kids under six and you've also got the wife.

They're all dependent on your income.

So if something were to happen to you, Kenny, the insurance needs to be on you and your wife.

So you're the breadwinner or maybe your wife is.

But if something happens to you, your kids need to be able to have a source of income that they can say, okay, we can pay for dad's funeral.

You know, hopefully that never happens.

And we can afford to continue the lifestyle we've had because this this nest egg is there and same thing if your wife were to pass away she's contributing something whether it be in the form of taking care of the kids and being a household CEO that needs to be replaced with money because if she were to go yes you would need child care you would need help around the house so that's the purpose of the insurance and we don't do it by lump sum we do it 10 to 12 times your income So whatever you're making, Kenny, we would say 10 to 12 times that amount.

And if your wife is a stay-at-home mom, mom maybe four you know four times your income something around that that number and we want term life policies on the two of you so not on the kids we have we have uh we have life insurance ourselves and that's that's great um and I understand about the replacement of the income okay I guess just my thought is like I'm not gonna want to have to work for I would I mean I've never had a child pass and god forgive that ever happens but like I know you all have kids like you wouldn't want to work for a substantial amount of time while you're grieving that so my thought process is just like have a decent little

lump sum of money for the kids in case one of them passes.

So we actually have, like Dr.

John says, to grieve and just miss them and figure that out.

Where are you in the baby steps?

Yeah, so

we're on baby step two.

I think baby step two.

So you have our emergency fund and we're working to pay off debt right now.

So my goal is

once we pay off all of our debt, then scale back on the life insurance.

We don't have a huge emergency fund right now besides our $1,000.

But

once we get that taken care of, then we can kind of back off on the life insurance.

So, what do you think about that?

Do you think that would be good or no?

I don't think, yeah, I don't think it's necessary, Kenny.

I mean, I do think it's one of these things, as an adult, you get to get off this call and do what you feel comfortable doing.

And if that's what you want, that's fine.

My word of caution is,

because I mean, they have to probably be cheap policies.

How much are you paying per kid, like per year?

How much is going to this?

Well, per month, it's about 40 bucks a kid.

Okay, because to me, that's, I mean,

you know, 100, I mean, 160 bucks a month.

Yeah, so I'm like, if that, if you, I, we don't recommend this.

This is not the way we would go about it.

We would never tell someone to do this.

But if this is where you choose to spend some of your money because it makes you feel better and you want to, that's fine.

But also, word of caution, there's so many, which I don't think you're in because you're working with Xander, but there's so many

bad philosophies around kids and life insurance of things of like, oh, you get them wealthy here.

You're doing it for a financial strategy, not really from what you're saying is if they actually did pass away, you would need that money to, you know, not work.

But just be careful that you don't go down this rabbit hole of life insurance because there is a, like, there's, it's, I'd say it's more crappy things out there about life insurance.

The good.

Sure, sure.

The good is very slim and the good is good.

Like the good is good.

But there's weird stuff with life insurance policies that are really expensive for kids and and all of it and we just don't play that game so i don't think it's necessary but if you want to spend you know 160 bucks a month you can but that's you know a thousand or so dollars not going to the debts yeah i agree

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All righty, we got Ashton in Austin, Texas.

That's a bit of a tongue twister, but it didn't get me, Rachel.

What's up, Ashton?

Hey, hello, how you doing?

So thank you for taking my call.

So I want to ask you guys a question.

Me and my wife are on baby step number two.

And so we started with $130,000 in debt at the beginning of the year, and we got it down to $23,900 and some more dollars.

Oh, my God.

Good job.

Yeah.

And so we both, we've been blessed enough to work at a company that we get, ESVP stocks and stuff like that.

So that really helped us get this push.

And we throwing about $5,000, anywhere from $4,500 to $5,000 a month

at our debt every month.

So

what I'm trying to figure out is this, though.

I'm like, okay, we have, so with the ESPP stocks, we have about, we're going to owe about $14,000 in taxes, right?

So I'm like, okay, should we take that money, throw it at the car, and

if I do that, I'll have the car done because that's what the last debt is.

I'll have the vehicle done by like

right before Chris.

Well, maybe even Thanksgiving time.

I'll have the car done and then we can, I can, we can go back, you know, start

stockpiling cash and then be ready for when before April 15th comes.

14,000 taxes.

You get what I'm saying?

But I'm like, all right, should I leave it or should I, should I, should I just, you know, because either way it's going to get done because like now like I have the tax money, but what, which direction should I go?

Have you run out the number?

You're positive that with just your income alone, you'll be able to cash flow the tax bill when it comes yeah because we we once again we're blessed enough to be able to live off of one one income so basically we meant we we live off and we live off my wife's check and my check is about anywhere from what my overtime 20 20 uh 45 to

4 500 to 5 000 a month so i'm like you know i'll be ready you know what i mean like i i mean we're sorry i missed the cashing out stocks okay is it pay this and they're single stocks yeah single stocks yeah yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, we tell anybody to do that.

I was going to say, I would go ahead and do it anyways, Ashton, because I wouldn't have single stocks anyways.

So I would probably tell you to do that and move some stuff to mutual funds or index funds anyways, let alone pay off the debt.

So I think it's a good move in general.

It does hurt with the tax bill.

Like what you're saying, it's all, it's like,

but in the long run.

Yeah, I'm scared.

I'm scared of all the sound.

I know.

I think we all could have a little bit of fun.

Well, if you want to play it out with your accountant first and like just be double sure that you know what the number is going to be, I think regardless of, I mean, if you're in the ballpark, I think you'll be fine with your income and cash flowing that.

But if you want just that extra knowledge of just tell me, you know, get as close as possible to it, I would do that.

The other question I had for you is I thought you said you had 22,000 left to go, but you said like 20, 23 is like 23,

$23,981.

So you've got other money that you're putting with that to finish the car?

Is that what you're doing?

Or is there another debt?

Yeah, so I'm so every check like last i just paid 2 000 i'm paying 2 000 every two weeks if i get a little more so like i say it's about anywhere from four thousand to five thousand a month got it is my a wider ballpark of what i'm putting on on the debt gotcha regardless i've been doing that since the beginning of the year way to go good yeah well i'm with jade if you're able to double check that you can tax flow or i'm sorry cash flow the tax bill in april i'd go ahead and cash it out yep be done and then build up some savings to invest in like a good index fund or something but for some reason if you can't, Ashton, I don't know if they, I don't know, if you guys run the numbers for some reason, then you're going to get this car paid off in five months anyways.

So you could pay it off, save some cash on the side after that,

and then sell the stock and pay it.

You know what I mean?

Either way, I would be doing both.

It's just the order you want to make sure that you're good at.

But if you are 100% sure you will have that money saved for the tax bill, I would go ahead and, yep, cash it out and get this car, get it, get it paid off.

Because when you don't have that car payment, Ashton, y'all do crazy.

That's yours right now.

That was so good.

That was fast.

That was so amazing.

Those numbers you just gave us.

So well done to you and your wife.

I mean, y'all are like textbook, exactly what we talk about.

And so, um, yep, you guys got a bright future ahead.

So good.

Thank you for the call.

That's so good.

All right.

Now we've got Austin in Charlotte, North Carolina.

What's up, Austin?

Hey, Jade.

Hey, Rachel.

I'm 25 and I make about $60,000 a year.

I'm about $35,000 in consumer debt, and my payments are around $800 per month.

The largest debt is what I'm most worried about, and that's a $22,000 truck

at $400 per month.

And I just got this truck about five months ago.

That was very big.

Yeah, and the KBB value is $18,000.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Good at night.

You've already lost $2,000.

Man.

Wow.

Yeah.

I am not very good when it comes to

the pieces at all.

fine.

Yeah.

Well, you're learning.

You're 25.

You're learning.

Yeah.

Our friends, kind of side note, Austin, our friend bought a new Tesla and he bought it with 4,000 miles on it.

So like it was literally a brand new, one owner, all of it.

Oh, really?

22% he got off of what he bought that 4,000, like with 4,000 miles versus what if he went retail brand new.

So that just shows you guys how quickly cars drop.

So you're not just the only one, Austin.

We see it all the time and it's real

how their value drops.

So, you know, the truck, we would always say if it is half of your annual income, you need to sell it.

So, you're not there.

You're close, but you're not there

with the 22,000 versus your income.

But the question is: I mean, yeah, the depreciation of what you would have to pay in difference and

get some money to replace the car kind of ends up being a wash.

So, I probably would just keep it and pay it down.

Yeah.

What are the other debts?

What's the other $12,000?

So,

I have

just under 10,000 on a personal loan, and that was for another truck, actually, that it has a lot of motor issues.

And that's why I went and bought this newer truck.

So you spent $10,000 on a truck that still didn't get fixed.

And then you spent $32,000 on cars very quickly.

Where's that truck right now?

I still have it.

I have a welder actually coming this weekend to help fix the fray.

Okay, how much can you sell it for once it's all done?

Right around $8,500.

Okay.

Well, that'll help bring down your $22,000 car payment.

And

what's the other $2,000 debt?

$3,000 debt?

That is what's remaining for my fiancé's lawyer.

She

is in the process of going through a large custody dispute

with

her baby's father, her son's father.

And she was having some trouble trying to come up with that.

And

it was something very big for her

and very important to myself.

So I told her that I would go ahead and take care of it and

we will handle that and handle everything

the end.

When you guys get married,

we haven't set a date.

We're not,

so I will start listening to you guys about nine months ago,

and

that is something that has been heavy on my mind.

And it's something that I definitely want to get the ball rolling towards.

We

both,

I'm ready to go to the courthouse and just get this over with

because I also just bought a house about six months ago.

Oh, my goodness.

Hey, hold up, hold up.

I'm going to stop you for a minute.

You've been listening for nine months.

You've been listening for nine months.

Thank you, Rachel, because I was.

I think, here's what I want you to do.

I don't want you to keep going towards debt.

I want you to start practicing patience because I see a guy who's like, I need to do this.

I'm going to do this.

I'm going to do this.

I'm going to do this.

And I just think that that it's going to start to compound on you.

I'm glad that you called now before it's gotten too crazy.

But I think, Austin, you got to just slow down a little bit.

I do.

The truck is too much.

The loan for the other thing is too much.

Like, if it's not on fire, we should certainly don't need to be going into debt for it.

Yeah.

So just.

Take a little bit of a chill pill.

I agree with you.

If you're going to start paying for things for your fiancé, you probably need to get married or you guys need to decide what that line is because I think this could get messy really fast.

And it doesn't, it sounds like she's got a lot of loose ends to tie up, and it might not be time for her to jump so quickly in.

But also, you can't be saving a ship while yours is sinking.

Yeah.

And so, you got a lot on your plate, Austin.

So, I would, I would focus first and foremost on paying off this debt, smallest to largest.

And so, you're going to do, you know, the fiancé's debt, personal loan for the truck, and then the car payment.

Get that taken care of, get a good emergency fund, and start cash flowing your life all together.

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And if you are an avid listener, and even if you're not, make sure you're sharing the show because

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All right, let's get back to the phone phone lines ryan in san antonio texas what's up ryan how can we help today

hi yes uh good afternoon everyone how are we doing everyone good oh yeah doing great

yeah awesome glad to hear so really what i wanted to call and ask for is um how i can just tackle my debt at a fast and efficient rate want to be debt free

I love that you wanted to be debt-free.

How much debt are we looking at?

So, my wife and I just got married August 2nd.

So our combined debt is 40,000.

Okay.

Perfect.

What did you say right before that, Ryan?

You said something about wanting to be debt-free.

Did you say a musician?

What'd you say?

They just got married.

No, yeah, we just got married in August 2nd.

Yeah, we just want to be debt-free.

Yes.

Okay.

Before that, when you, okay, I'm sorry.

I thought I heard something else.

Okay.

That's great.

Yeah.

So how much do you guys make a year together?

Household income?

Combined.

Yeah, combined before taxes.

We're looking at $100,000.

Okay, good.

And what kind of debt is it?

Is it from the wedding or?

No, the wedding we paid out of pocket, nothing that we owe for that.

It's student loans

and a car loan along with credit cards.

Okay.

How much is the car?

How much of the $48 is the car IR?

$26,000.

Okay.

What's the student loan?

Student loan together, $16,000.

Okay, in the credit card.

Correct, yes.

Okay, got it.

Okay, so is this, did this come mostly from one side, or is this just really both of you together?

This is both your debt?

The loans under my name, my wife didn't come in.

She has no car payment.

And the student loans, I owe a little bit more as well.

And then the credit cards together, for sure.

Okay.

Okay.

All yours, Ryan.

Bringing all this to your debt-free wife.

I'm just kidding.

That is funny.

That's wild.

So, yeah, I mean, I think that you have the right spirit.

This is something that is great to tackle head on as you guys are combining your finances.

So, yeah, that's the first thing: combining everything together.

I don't know if you've done this or not, but you guys together need a joint checking account that both all your money is going into,

so that there's complete transparency there.

Do you guys have that?

No, so we're very new to this whole to the real world.

Yes.

How old are you guys?

I'm 26.

She's 25.

Okay.

And that's what I wanted to call you.

Yeah.

That's right.

Perfect.

Yes.

Well, Jade's right.

So combining everything that can be combined.

So that's going to be

any savings in a high yield or a money market.

If you guys have any of those accounts, put both names on it, checking account.

Yeah, the most like efficient way of combining is that joint checking account.

And people get all squirmish about that because they want their own money and all of this.

But we've just found financially, not only do you get ahead faster when you work together as a team, when you say, yes, all this money is coming to our household as a household, as a family.

What do we do with this pile of money?

Regardless of who brings in what, this is our money to run our household.

How do we most efficiently do that?

And then just from a...

Dollars and cents standpoint, just working out at the same account, because Ryan, I mean, it's it still kind of amazes me, which I know I'm the weird one probably in the world today, but that people people Venmo or split grocery bills as a married couple.

You're just like, oh my gosh, y'all, like you, you're both adult.

Like, let's just, let's just call it what it is.

We're a married couple and we're sharing our life together.

So they have the joint, the account would be all of that.

So that's kind of the tactical side.

And then, oh, go ahead, Jay.

Well, I was going to say, does your, I know you're calling, but your wife is on board with this.

She, she knows that we're doing this.

We're paying it off aggressively.

Does she know this or is this just you talking?

So I'm the more financially savvy one.

I'm the one who's trying to find strategies.

She's all on board, though.

She's all on board.

Well, we say the most financially savvy, Ryan, but you are the one bringing in all the debt.

I know.

Yeah, what's it mean?

So, yeah, and then I would sit down for you guys and do a budget.

We'll give you, as a wedding gift from Jade and I,

we'll give you every dollar, which is our budgeting app, but it also, you plug in all your numbers so you see your numbers as a household, which will help you start working your way out of debt, giving you a plan and giving you some guidance that way.

And I also throw in my book, Know Yourself, Know Your Money, because understanding how you guys function separately, how you grew up, your money personalities.

You know,

I made fun of you, Ryan.

You said you're the savvy one, but you're probably the nerd.

You probably enjoy this stuff.

She's probably a little bit more laid back, which is great.

Like, all that's so normal, but working together and seeing each other's strengths is really big.

And you'll probably get those conversations doing a budget.

So, when you guys do your first monthly household budget together,

that's a

great.

I mean, some people have a lot of bad memories around that.

You know, I think it's a

okay one.

I think it's a great starting point to be like, hey, here's what I think we spend on groceries.

What do you think we spend on groceries?

You know, you really start to get a handle on where your income's going.

And in that budget, Ryan, is where you guys are going to be listing out your debts as well.

And you guys will start working on tackling the smallest debt.

So it's probably one of the credit cards, paying that off.

And then you just, you pay minimum payments on everything, but you start attacking the smallest one first.

And if you guys together, Ryan, can get fully on board.

And if you guys go crazy with this, and when I say crazy and Jade, Jade, live this out.

And so you can probably speak to it.

But I mean, it's not.

Not a time.

No, yeah, not only cutting expenses, but you both getting extra jobs, working nights, working weekends.

Like you just go all in.

You could get this 48 paid off, I think in 18, 18 months.

For sure.

I think with you guys being newlyweds, you're going to have to basically live like your college students.

Like don't mistake getting married for now or, you know, about that life.

Now is the time for you to be be like, okay, we're eating peanut butter and jelly because we're newlyweds and everything is fun, right?

Like

make everything fun because you're newlyweds.

And also I would say, Ryan, don't mistake.

And this is for anybody listening because sometimes a wife or a spouse or a husband can say, yeah, sure, do whatever you want.

Right.

Don't mistake that for being on board.

Make sure she's on, like wants to be a part of it.

Because I think sometimes if you're the nerd, it can be,

that can be interpreted as, oh, she says I can go do this.

Yeah.

And you might be excited about it.

And Ryan's like, oh, I'll do it.

I'll do the budget.

Don't worry.

You got to do it together.

So you, you, you, you got to make sure that this is not just, hey, she said it's fine.

So you go off to the spreadsheet and, you know, just dive in there on your own.

Make sure that you're both, to Rachel's point, contributing.

She has, you know, she has a say in the budget.

You might be the one who makes it, but she's the one who's commenting on it.

And you guys are both tracking transactions.

Everything's transparent.

I think that's the part of this that's super duper important going down the line.

Yeah, for sure.

Ryan, can you already tell if you guys are opposites with money, meaning like, are you more of the spender or she's more of the saver or vice versa?

I think we're both pretty conservative.

It was just actually writing down the devs where we were just like, holy smoke.

Okay, this is why we need to need some

advice on how to do it.

But I think we're both a little bit on the conservative end.

We don't merge

as much.

No, that's great.

Yeah.

And I'll say this, Ryan, you know, the faster you guys can get out of this debt,

the brighter your future is.

Because we would tell you, like, stop investing, stop everything until you get this debt paid off.

And then you guys build up an emergency fund after that.

If you guys want to buy a home, or I'm not sure if a home is in the equation, you know, that would be after that.

But it is amazing when you look up and run some numbers.

If you go to ramseysolutions.com and our investment calculator, if you start investing at 30

and you start looking ahead of like what your income is going to be and the compound interest and where you guys could go financially like it's insane and just put in your car payment from age 25 to age 65 and see if you lived the car payment your whole life instead of investing you paid a car company that payment what you're missing out on so together just like start building this dream of like this is what we want to be we want to be about this and we're we want to be out of debt we want to be investing you know it that's the fun part of all of it when you're working together which i think couples miss out on when they keep it so separate it's like you don't get to dream together and be like here's what we get to do as a couple and as a family So there's a lot of upside, Ryan.

So I so I appreciate you calling and trusting us with this because I think you guys are on the right track and you guys are going to do incredible things.

So congratulations on the marriage.

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So, you guys, we're always giving you advice on obviously how to manage your money and the components that go along with that.

So, of course, we're always telling you things like you need to get on a budget.

A budget is a huge part of managing your personal finance.

You need to be paying off debt.

That's a huge part of personal finance.

You need to carry the proper insurance, a very big part of personal finance.

Obviously, we care about saving for the future.

We care about things like generosity, but another big part of managing your personal finances is what would happen if you were to leave this earth.

What happens to your personal finances, your assets, all of those things.

And so of course that falls under wills and estate planning.

And it's kind of one of those topics, Rachel, that's a little bit like, I don't know, it makes you feel some type of way to talk about it, but we really do need to talk about it.

So we get questions all the time about wills.

Can I just make my own will?

Can I do it online?

Do I need to get with a lawyer?

How do I do this?

So let's kind of pop through this, Rachel, and answer the number one questions, actually the top four questions that people tend to ask us.

So the first one, how do I know, Rachel, if I need a trust or if my estate's too complicated for doing the online thing?

Oh yeah.

Well, we always say if your estate is worth less than a million dollars, then an online will is just sufficient.

That's fine.

Anything past a million probably can get complicated with passing down assets and taxes and all of that.

So at that point, you may want to look into more of estate planning, which may include a trust.

I love that.

Okay.

What about this one?

What do I need to start my will online?

Well, making a will online or not, not, some big decisions.

You got to think through.

So think through who do I want to give all my stuff to?

You know, where does my stuff go?

If you have minor children,

children that are minors, who's going to be taking care of them?

And also, who do you want to make decisions for you if you are incapacitated,

if you're not available or conscious enough to write to make these decisions about your finances?

And then there's even power of attorneys for health decisions.

All of it is there in the will.

So important.

And it may seem a little morbid, but you do, I mean, this is part of the plan.

This is part of the risk there.

Number three, is an online will legally valid?

Yes, it is, but just not any online will that you find on the internet may not be legally valid in your state.

So again, it has to be a state-specific will.

That's one reason we recommend Mom and Barrett Legal Forums because they do a great job with that.

Yeah, when Sam and I moved from Florida to Tennessee, we had to change our will because

state law applies.

Okay, and finally, number four, why would I want an online will versus a traditional one that's made with a lawyer?

Why would I even bother with that?

It's more convenient.

You're able to kind of do it at your pace.

You're able to get to it.

I'd say it's less expensive as well.

It takes less time.

So again, it's very doable.

And again, our world today, the way we've made things accessible, so whether it's

even brokerage accounts or index funds, you know, you can do through Vanguard, you know,

your will, you can do online.

And so, there are times that you can just do these things yourselves.

But when things get more complicated, whether it's investing, right, again, your estate, even like we're talking about, making a will, bring in professionals to help you with some of this stuff, especially if you have anything that's a little bit complicated, because it's worth getting an expert opinion.

Yeah, I agree.

So, if you heard us talk, but you're still not sure, why don't you take our Wills quiz to find out kind of where you fall on either side of the fence?

And you can do that by going to ramseysolutions.com/slash/Wills quiz, and you can find out which which approach is right for you.

All right.

Thank you, Rachel.

Let's go to Gina in Jacksonville, Florida.

Hey, Gina, how can we help today?

Hey, ladies, how's it going?

Doing great.

Awesome.

So my question today has to do with investing, but also insurance.

My husband and I have gone through Financial Peace University and we've taught it two times.

We're debt-free.

But we are also saving for a home.

We sold our home like eight years ago up north and moved to Florida and we've been saving since then, bought new cars and all that stuff completely debt-free, cash flowing everything.

Just for you, me.

Awesome.

Thank you so much.

So we are at this point maxing out

basically all of our retirement accounts.

And my husband recently got a new job and the health insurance has doubled.

Our high-yield health insurance has gone from $3,000 a year to $6,000 a year

and we don't use it ever.

So we cash flow all of our health expenses because we do all alternative health.

So we have a chiropractor, massage, acupuncture,

nutritional therapies, everything.

And they don't take insurances traditionally.

Yeah.

Correct.

Yeah.

And I've even tried to like, I've taken hours even like, you know, sending in receipts, trying to see if I can somehow like build up that disease table and do anything.

Nothing has ever been done.

So did you drop your policy?

Is that what you're thinking of doing, letting it lapse?

Well, I just keep going back and forth because technically it's in play like right at this moment.

Like we did sign up for it, but now open enrollment is coming around again.

And I'm thinking I'm going to lose out on the investment portion of the HSA, which we've been maxing out the last few years, but have never taken any money out of.

And so I'm like,

which you can keep until $12,000.

You can keep until, what is it, 60, 62 and be able to.

I mean, it can work just like a investing vehicle, like your, you know, 401k or any type of investment.

Like you can actually use that money and invest it, which is great.

But you're worried about the premium, the 500 bucks a month?

Is that what you're worried?

Are you worried about the premium?

You just don't want to pay the premium anymore because you don't really use the insurance.

Is that what you're worried about?

I'm thinking I can just invest that and continue to cash flow my health care and just invest separately.

I mean, we're also doing about $1,000 a month in an outside retirement.

What's your nest thing now?

What are you guys worth now?

It's not huge because it's only been the last few years, maybe like $500,000.

I don't know if I would drop a cost, Gina.

I wouldn't.

Because the truth is, if a car, I mean, if you...

Some could get in a car accident tomorrow and you have brain surgery.

And it would be, yeah, millions of dollars.

You know what I mean?

Like, it just, I mean, the health care costs are just, it's extreme.

And so if you don't have health insurance in place, I mean, it's worth it.

It would be worth it.

Even if I don't use it year to year, it's an extra padding if something big happens.

A diagnosis.

I mean, anything.

Yeah, you're going to want health insurance.

I would not risk cash flowing that.

You got to remember it's.

And that's basically what my husband thinks, too, but I'm

more interested in it.

And I'll tell you,

you talked to Sharon, Ramsey, Gina, and even my sister, and they are on your train.

They are

activated charcoal with stomach bugs.

I mean, they're into the, yeah, I think that's all.

But they all, but they all keep health insurance.

Yeah, because the truth is,

yes, if something really bad happens to you, one of your children, like,

you know, I don't know.

Yeah, we don't have to get it like in a medical debate, but I think you're going to want surgery.

You know what I mean?

Charcoal can't fix certain things.

I'm not against that for sure.

I get it.

I guess I was just thinking, like, would the auto insurance just come into play at that point?

The bike?

Umbrella insurance.

Like, there's other insurances that we have that I thought, okay, if something like that happens.

Tell me the problem you're trying to solve.

I think what you hate paying the $6,000 every year.

Is that it?

And you'd rather invest the money.

Absolutely.

So what I would do, if I were you, if I was so hung up on that $500 a month being invested, I'd go out and find another $500 a month and invest it.

I'd earn it if that's what you're trying to do.

But yeah, I just see this.

And insurance, too, I'll say this, Gina, like, you know, home insurance, ours keeps going up.

And it's just, it's a little bit of a pain.

Nobody

no yeah but it's for the just in case the worst case scenario that's what insurance is for and you know even life insurance right you have life insurance in case something happens to you for your kids and like and you know god forbid nothing does happen but it's the just in case so i so i would keep yes i would keep it for the just in case category and you're paying for peace of mind if something really really bad happens that costs literally hundreds of thousands, millions of dollars of, you know, whatever may happen,

that you have that in place.

So that's right.

Or at least my husband's peace of mind.

Yeah, that's right.

I know.

I know, G, I hear you.

I hear you.

But

yeah, I don't think

I would let that

go.

No, if anything, think of it as there are certain things in life that feel like a pain in the butt sometimes, like insurance or when you, you know, people call and they're like, I don't want to go to the next tax bracket.

And I'm like, guys, at the end of the day, actually, these things are a blessing to be able to afford and to be able to

shoulder the weight of that payment

and to say something like, oh man, if I could have that money, I could invest it.

Cause some people, you know,

they can't even afford the payment.

That's right.

That's right.

Kind of try to keep it in perspective like that.

It's great to be able to transfer that risk.

It is a pain in the butt, but at least you can, at least you can handle it.

It's not causing you to miss out on dinner or anything like that.

And you guys are killing in other places too.

So I, yeah, I would take the abundance approach, like what Jade's saying.

That's right.

It's a good thing to have it and it's great that you can afford it.

And God forbid, you never need to use it.

Hey, George Camel here.

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All right.

Well, welcome back to the Ramsey Show.

We're here in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, continuing to take calls about your life and your money.

I'm Jade Warshaw.

Next to me is Rachel Cruz, and we're just chopping it up with you guys.

So call in 888-825-5225 and we'll do our best to get you on the phone line.

We've got Jasmine in Raleigh, North Carolina.

Hey, Jasmine, how can we help today?

Hey,

yes, so I'm calling kind of on behalf of my husband.

We live about two hours away from Raleigh in a small town.

But basically, my husband is a wonderful guitarist, and his income has decreased pretty steadily over the past few years due to not to his part, but the people he plays for.

So I was calling to see exactly

how he could increase that income and be a better contributor because

I feel like it's difficult for us because of the stress of not being able to play as much as he wants to.

So what level was he playing on?

Was he like touring with a major artist or was he explaining doing session work?

Like explain what that was.

So he's not touring with a major artist, but

he is touring with a guy based out of Nashville.

So he commutes back and forth between our little town in North Carolina and Nashville quite, or used to, a couple of times a month.

Now it's like once a month.

In the winter months, it's hardly any.

At the height of that, what was he earning when he was doing that, like at the height of doing his thing?

So at the height, he was actually still living in Nashville majority of his time and also working with another music company as a sound engineer.

Okay.

And so he probably at the height was doing,

I don't know, maybe 75.

And how long ago was that, Jasmine?

That was three years, three and a half.

Okay.

And what's he been making since

why did y'all move to Raleigh?

Sorry.

Why did you move to Raleigh if he's a musician and he's doing music work in Nashville?

So he moved back home.

How long have you guys been married?

I've never wanted to live in Nashville.

We will be four years

or two years this coming next year.

So he made the choice that it was more important to be home than keep this gig, the sound engineer gig and the playing gig.

And now he's in Raleigh and can't find the work.

He's still playing with the same guy.

It's just that guy doesn't play as well.

Yeah, but he was also supplementing, touring, and doing sound.

Because we know Nashville, I mean, there's like tons of musicians and they do all kinds of things

to be able to supplement a food.

Yeah, so that's his choice.

But you do understand, it would be like,

you know, we have some students from Pennsylvania, I think.

So I'm like, it'd be like working at Hershey's and being like, oh, I still want to do chocolate, but I'm going to move to Atlanta or something.

And you're like, well, there's not a lot of chocolate.

You know what I'm saying?

Like, you moved out of the.

the work.

Not that you can't be a musician anywhere, but you.

But what was the plan?

Is the question.

What was his plan?

Yeah.

The plan was to still work with the musician and then another guy that

has a band here and that he does sound for here.

And so he still works with these guys.

The problem lies that they aren't, yeah, they're not working as often and not making as much money.

So

I'm going to tell you as a person who lived in this lifestyle, A, it feels like he's got all of his eggs and one to two very small baskets.

And that gets tough because he's he's reliant on these people because to do their job.

And if they're not doing their job, he can't do his job.

Right.

So because of that, he's got to have diversify and have his hand in a lot of different things.

And that is a full-time job.

That alone, he's got to be on this all the time.

He should be out marketing, you know, networking every single night.

He should be at everybody else's live shows, getting to know people.

So if somebody's sick, they're like, oh, I know a guy who can sub and he's great on guitar.

Like that's, has that been his full-time job?

Because if it has been, and he's still not getting anything, then he's got to consider where his strength lies.

If his greater strength is in sound engineering, maybe he needs to veer more towards that side of things.

If it, do you see what I'm saying?

Like, I think as a musician, as an entertainer, you have to have a lot of tough conversations with yourself and you have to be very realistic on what you need to be doing next, especially when there's money involved and a family involved.

So, what have you observed?

Is he grinding or is he kind of like

he has been distracted with a new baby?

So

we had our baby almost 10 months ago.

So that has definitely taken

a front seat to his

work and being that person that is always going and networking and making phone calls and all that you just talked about.

So that's a good thing.

But it's been four years.

You said four years ago he was making $75,000 and what's he making now?

This year he, last year it was about $45,000 to $50,000.

This year it's 30.

Yeah,

he's on the decline.

So

you guys,

you said that you're calling in for him.

Did he ask you to call?

Is that what you meant by that?

Or you're calling

for you?

No.

I'm calling for me

to kind of see how I can help him.

I think you need to sit down.

and I think you have to frame this not around his talent, not around what he can or can't do.

You have to just frame it around the reality and say

that what I'm feeling.

Yeah.

It's about, yeah, you're talking about it from your perspective, which is we have a brand new baby.

It's been four years and I'm feeling a shift.

I'm feeling a decline and I'm very scared because I haven't.

You're not talking about it and I don't see what the plan is.

I don't know what the plan is, but I know that we need one, right?

Have you had those types of conversations with him?

Yeah, we've talked about the plan and it's, oh, well, once we, you know, get new babysitter well established, because he's kind of being a stay-at-home mom while I was working

because my income is more.

Oh.

And

what's your income?

Yeah, and so mine is 83.3.

Okay, so I will say I thought you were, I thought his income was the only income.

So it's good that you are working

got it.

Do you enjoy your work, Jasmine?

Is that what you're wanting to do?

Oh, I mean, ideally, if I could be a state-owned mom, that would be amazing, but I can't do that.

We can't financially.

But I do enjoy what I do.

Okay, so you're concerned, though, with him, because, you know, household, you guys are at over six figures right now,

even with him making 30

and he's replacing child care, right?

I mean, he's not, you guys aren't paying for child care while you work.

He's the one watching.

He was.

He doesn't do well with child care because

he feels like he needs to be the provider.

Then he needs to go out and provide respectfully.

Yes.

Like

you can't have it both ways.

Yeah.

And we had discussed what's the plan.

And his plan is, oh, well, once we get

somebody in, I'll be able to focus and work and bring, like, get more gigs and bring income.

This is what you need to remind him.

The baby's 10 months old but this decline has been happening for four years

so that the baby might be a distraction like a further distraction but it's not the root of the problem um and i think that's what you need to talk with him about is say i get it we do need child care i'm not saying we don't but this precedes that and that's what i'm worried about and you sound like a really kind sweet you know a little bit more soft spoken but i think that you need to lay this out in very clear terms that he's going to understand that you also have dreams here, which is to stay home.

So your dreams matter and his dreams matter.

And you've got to come together on a plan and a tipping point that's like the no, the go, no, go on this music deal.

Hey, what's up guys?

It's Jade.

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Today's question comes from Ryan in Vermont.

He said, I'm 40 years old and engaged to a lady who is 37.

However, I'm struggling to see how to move forward.

I own a house and I've been using cash to upgrade and repair the home.

She believes that I should put her name on the house without her putting anything into it.

I disagree and have asked that she at least match some of the equity before her name goes on the house.

She makes significantly more than I do, but chooses to own horses.

And we need George on this card.

Her hobby causes her not to be able to cover her own bills because she spends so much on them and they're upkeep.

I'm at a loss about how to approach this issue.

I have studied the Ramsey principles on how married couples should approach finances, but I can't figure this step out for us.

How do couples merge finances when they completely disagree on how their money is being allocated?

It's a lot there.

Ryan, I don't think you're worried about the house.

I think you're worried that you're marrying someone that can't do math.

There's a lot there.

Right?

Yeah.

I'm like, girl, you're 37.

Like, I'm sorry that you're, yeah, you're, I'm with him on this.

Your hobby causes you not to be able to cover your own bills.

Yeah, that, well, well, I, I do, okay, let me, let me, I don't know if it was just the way I heard it, but I also feel like he has a tone.

Yeah, with the house.

Yeah.

But I think it's deeper.

I think it's because he's seeing her not being able to function as a human being.

And then she's like, just going to jump in.

And he's like, are you going to be able to help function as a married couple?

Or am I going to be drowning in irresponsibility the rest of of my life because my fiancé isn't even covering herself like I think that I think it's a deeper fear I think it's coming out as the house which I don't agree with Ryan I don't agree with you on that yeah from a principled standpoint I agree I but she's 37 and she can't pay her bills because of her

horses I didn't know I don't know and and I may have misinterpreted this but I didn't know if he was saying

like she can't even cover her cover her bills saying like her putting the equity that he wanted is one of the bills that he wants her to cover like I I was trying to understand if she really is like not paying her utilities.

Yes, she's not able to cover her own bills because she spends so much on them, the horses and their upkeep.

Yeah.

Yeah, I guess so.

I guess so.

I think if she was, I think if she was a resp, I think if she was successful, responsible, she's investing, she's doing this and that, she's got her own place.

She's going to sell.

I mean, sure, yeah, you're right.

You're right.

I don't think he'd be worried about it.

No, I don't either.

I think that you're marrying, I'm sorry, a woman that's not like you're, she's not responsible.

Yeah.

You're a little uptight, Ryan.

So you probably need to like, you both need help.

Have a, yeah, have a glass of wine and chill for a second.

But like, man, I, I think the, I need marriage counseling.

Well, you do.

And I think, and again, not from like the X's and O's in the, in the math side,

but from a reality of what you're getting of genuinely, money is a stress point for couples.

Big time.

And if you guys do not see things, and again, you don't have to be the same person.

She can still be more of a spender.

You're more of a saver.

But if you're not aligned on a value system at which you approach money, you're gonna have an uphill battle to climb.

Yeah, 100% smarter.

100%.

Yes, you're marrying, again, I'm so sorry, but a 37-year-old.

Yeah,

like, I just, you can't, you can't live like that your whole life.

And so, no, you can't.

That's

that's what I would worry about.

And that her,

it's, it's a, it's a prioritization of importance in life.

Yes.

And, and that would, yeah, their values are not aligned.

That would worry me.

Yeah.

So, no, Ryan, when you get married, you don't need your new spouse to bring in the equity that you put, all that.

No, you're all the same when you get married.

You are together.

You are one.

You're choosing a life with a partner.

So get that off.

But again, I think he's highlighting that and worried about that because of this other side.

I agree.

I agree.

That's like his guarantee that he's not going to get burnt.

100%.

100%.

Yeah.

Oh, man.

Oh, good luck to you.

Good luck, Ryan.

Again, you got to have these conversations when you're in, like, before you're engaged, like, you got to know who they are financially.

Yes.

So if you don't get this straightened out, I don't know if I'd, well, I don't know if I could do it.

I don't know.

I could.

At 30, you know, I don't know if this is your first or second marriage, but at that age, I have a, I was just telling Rachel on the break.

I couldn't be out in these single waters at 40 because the stuff that I could not tolerate is very high.

It gets higher and higher.

I know.

It's higher and higher.

The standards go up.

Oh, my God.

I don't know if I want to deal with that.

Man, I couldn't.

Life's too short at 40 at that point.

No, that's right.

We got a solid 30 years.

We could travel the world.

I don't know.

It's like, I can't say it on the air, but if you've seen Lethal Weapon, Danny Glover's famous line, I'm getting too old for this.

Yeah.

You know, anyway.

Keaton is in Chicago, Illinois, on line two.

What's up, Keaton?

Hey, how are you guys doing today?

We're doing good.

How can we help?

Awesome.

So

I am currently 24 years old.

I don't have any debt.

I don't own a car.

And recently just found out for my job that for my new location, I'm going to have to buy a car.

And I'm looking for direction on should I lease a car based on my salary, should I buy one?

And just exactly how much should I spend.

And I have to make a decision in like the next four weeks.

So decided to give you guys a call.

Yeah, that's great.

Well, you got some time.

That's good.

How much are you making per year at your job?

I'm making $81,000.

Okay.

Probably like another $5K for bonuses.

Okay, great.

Good job.

Do you have any money saved right now?

Yeah, so I have like $5,000 in my checking and then like another $24,000 in investments that I can sell off at any moment.

Or any single stocks?

It's all just the S ⁇ P.

I put all my money into reinvesting.

Great.

So I would say,

you know, the, the rule of thumb here is, of course, you don't want it to, the car to be anything with an engine to be any more than half of your take-home pay.

And honestly, I mean, you're young, you're starting out.

I probably wouldn't even go that high.

I would try to keep this frugal.

Do you have, you said you have no debt, right?

No, I don't owe any money.

No debt.

And this $24,000, is that your only, that's your only savings anywhere, the $24,000 and the five, that $30,000, right?

That's it?

Yeah, then I have like another probably like $30,000 in retirement, retirement, but I don't really need to get that.

Right, you don't need to touch up.

Okay, great.

So, what do you have your eye on?

What are you looking at?

I mean, if you tomorrow were to choose something, what would you spend?

I'm like thinking, I think I want to spend like 15 to 20K because in my mind, I'm like, if I buy a cheap car that like is just going to have problems and stuff for, you know, for like seven, eight K, then I'm worried that in like another two years, I'm going to have to buy a new one.

I'm going to spend a ton of time.

I agree with you.

You're not in a a position where you need to have a beater.

You're not in debt.

You've got a nice savings here.

I'm with you.

I think if you spend 15 or 20 on a car, that's not a bad thing.

Yeah.

You pay for it.

You probably wrote 15 down.

I think that's great.

What's the commute going to be?

Are you driving a lot?

It'd probably be like, I'm in Chicago, so the traffic's insane, but

probably like...

I think it's 13 miles there, 13 miles home.

Okay, but just traffic.

Okay.

I was going to say, because if you're putting a ton of miles on it, that's something also to consider

of not just like wearing down a car, but that's not going to be the case for you.

You're not getting brand new.

You'll get used.

Yeah, and leasing,

it is the most expensive way to finance a vehicle.

Like from a mathematical standpoint, you'd be better off getting a car payment than leasing because of the baked in interest and all that and all the fees around it.

But we don't want you to get a car payment.

We want you to stay debt-free and cash flow the car.

So

yeah, so I would put those options off the table.

And yeah, and I would just, yeah, I'd buy a 15, 20, I think think that's exactly right 15 20 000 I think that's great you'll probably have to pay some taxes on when you're pulling money out so I'd be thinking about that and then my next step Keaton I think from a financial goal perspective is I would probably just have some cash available like three months of expenses and just putting that in a high yield savings account don't invest it just have it over there liquid in case you need it as just kind of a standard emergency fund

so yeah that would be my that would be my goal I think in the next few months is to get a new car get a car

um make sure you got the taxes covered in April if you got to be paying that.

That's right.

And then, yeah, have a quick savings goal of about three months of expenses just to set aside.

So, if you run into an issue like this, like anything in life, that you just need some cash, that way you're not pulling out your investments.

Because

what you're invested in is probably great.

And the rate of return the past few years has been fantastic.

So, I hate to pull it out of a great index fund, but you need the car, and at least you have the cash.

So, we'll see it as a blessing.

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All right, we've got Ann in San Jose, California.

Hi, Anne.

How are you doing?

Hi.

Great.

How can we help you?

Well, I've been listening to Dave Ramsey.

I look forward to hearing him every day.

And I just would like to have your opinion on how should my younger sister take title to a house that I sent her the money because she didn't have any money and so I sent her $245,000 to purchase the house in South Carolina and I just want to make sure that if something happens to her I would get the house so I can get my money back

oh okay so you I just want to make sure I got the story straight you gave the money for the house she purchased it and the house for her to live in

yes And then at what point were you hoping to get the title back?

Is it just if she were to pass away or was there another circumstance that you would want to get that house back?

Well, she's looking for a job.

She said if she's looking for a job, she'll start paying me back.

That I don't really need the money, and I trust her.

So

if she pays me fine, the only thing I worry about is if something happens to her, if she was to, you know, die suddenly, or if she's sixty years old, and I would then like to have the money or the house back without her husband getting it or her son.

Oh.

So you would want her to will it to you over her immediate does she know that?

Yes.

She said she's willing to do a will, but I was told if she does a will, it's gonna be improbate and all that.

And I think she does a will.

Well, it may go through for a little bit, but I mean, mean, yeah, the will, if it's a state-specific will,

it'll go through any legal.

But I do want to, does the husband know this and the son?

Yes.

Okay.

All right.

And they're okay with it because they get to live there.

Right.

As long as she's alive, yeah.

And then if she were to pass, they'd have.

What would you do?

Would you kick them out and get the money?

Oh, I didn't think about that.

I mean, probably not.

That would be a little heavy-handed.

But

I guess what I'm saying is

you said you don't need the cash.

Is that right?

No.

Okay.

I don't need the cash.

What are you worth, Anne?

What's your net worth?

Five, six million without my two houses.

Okay, so yeah, you're doing well.

Why do you want the money back?

It's a lot of money.

It is, but also you're setting up a life for your sister, which includes, includes, you know, her family.

And if she passes away and it says in the will that it's titled to you, then,

yeah, you got to think through: are you giving them?

And it needs to be all communicated.

That needs to be all in the will to be able to say, yes, within 12 months, and Aunt Anne expects us to find a different place to live

and you take the house

back,

which again, if it's everyone's wishes, that's on you guys.

But no, I'm just wondering if we could we could do like tenants in common.

Do what?

Say it.

Tenants in common?

Tenants in common.

Where they are the tenant of the home, but you have the title.

Right.

But I don't really I don't want to be responsible for insurance and taxes.

She'll take I don't want those in my name.

Oh boy.

That's what I'm saying.

If she passes, you don't want those in your name or or just today?

Just today.

Just today.

I guess I could have thinked this out a little bit.

It's complex.

I think you have to make a couple of decisions.

And whatever you decide,

you're the captain of the ship, right?

Because you paid the money and it sounds like your sister would go with whatever you said.

It sounds like it.

It's the husband that you need to make sure also understands.

I just think the main thing is whatever it is, it needs to be in writing.

Yeah.

When if it ends up being the case that she wills it to you, you need to know about that.

Yeah.

Why did you do it in the first place, Ann?

Were they in need?

Did they need a place?

Okay.

Yes.

Because of her and her husband can't provide

enough income to sustain a home themselves.

Right.

Yeah.

Because her husband was with the military.

He's got PST.

He's not working.

And the money he gets is they can't live on.

Okay.

Is the house in San Jose, too?

No, the house in South Carolina is

not a community property state.

Okay.

Understood.

I'm trying to think currently.

I'm just, I'm thinking of the best solution because, and I also don't want this whole idea of

of owing people money, especially within family, it just kind of changes the dynamic.

So I'm just thinking out loud here, Anne.

I wonder if you tell her, hey,

you don't have to pay me back.

I mean, you're worth a lot and you gave this as a gift, but maybe you say instead, I need you to be in charge of the bills of the home, the property tax, all of that.

That's what she's in charge of.

Because

she paid for the home outright.

There's no mortgage on it, correct?

No mortgage.

Yeah.

She bought it cash.

Okay.

With the money I sent.

Yes, I hear you.

So, and legally, everybody thinks it's hers.

Like, you're not on the hook for anything right now.

Correct?

So, correct.

Does it hurt you?

Like, does it bother you if it becomes a gift?

No.

It's just that I kind of, my, you know, my poor husband and I worked all our lives.

And now my husband, I just have helped my family.

I gave my mother a house, my brother a house.

Oh, wow.

And handed out houses.

Oh, my God.

People are like, we got born in the wrong family.

I know.

And Jade and I are great.

We're great people.

And I would will it to you.

I'm just kidding.

So is it that you just feel like I've done too much?

Maybe I need to pull back on this.

Is that what it is?

You're having like a little regret, maybe?

Not really.

The reason I do it is that she rescued old dogs, rescued greyhounds, and they cost a lot of money for vet bills and to feed them.

So I'd always help with that.

And, um you know anybody who rescues animals to me i we give you give them a couple of money to all these rescue places yeah oh wow okay

and i gotta work okay what i want you to work on so i need you and your husband to get on the same page and if he wants this paid back because he feels like it's off then that's y'all sure y'all go for it in the will it needs to be very clear it and gets the house back if she passes um husband and son have to be out within 12 months and they have to find the place to live and we're we're done with it, right?

Everyone needs to be on the same page.

But also, Ann, you sound like a very kind person, but you are on the edge, if not the textbook of an enabler, maybe.

Uh-huh.

Right.

Some boundaries.

So you, and

I know, and I want you to work on that, Ann, because solving problems with just money doesn't always work.

Even though it feels like it does, it still can leave people in a cycle of irresponsibility.

And that's not good for them.

And so I love your generous heart and your spirit.

And I think it can be taken in such a better, healthier way as a recipient if the recipient is actually doing the work to take care of themselves as well, right?

You pair that with generosity and it's a really beautiful pairing if you're able to do it, which you are financially, which is so great.

But you just need next time you want to give a house away, just pump the brakes.

And just you and your husband need to get on the same page and just think, okay, what's the situation that we want to give to?

And again, I love the generous spirit.

When you got $6 million net worth, like to be able to do stuff for people, I mean, it is amazing.

But, um, you also want to give in a way that it's not a burden

for both.

You know, the pattern of giving houses away.

Yeah, well, it's creating a blessing on the front end, but it's creating a burden on the back end of chaos.

So, yes, thinking through those things is very, very important.

And yeah, I'm with you.

Borrowing a house is probably not the way to give.

You probably want to either give it or some stipulations.

Yeah, you need the stipulations.

All right, our scripture and quote of the day, Job 34, 32 says, teach me what I cannot see.

And if I've done wrong, I will not do so again.

Simon Sinek said, Appreciate when things go awry.

It makes for a better story to share later.

I know, that's right.

That's funny.

That is good.

That's like, well, I told Rachel my story that went awry.

I was in New York City this weekend.

And it's true.

When things go awry, you got a story out of it.

A better better story.

That's right.

Anyway, let's go to Lewis in New York City, New York.

There we go.

What's going on, Lewis?

Hi, thank you so much for taking my call.

You're welcome.

What's going on?

My question is, just a little backstory.

I'm 23, and I've been hustling non-stop since June after graduating to pay off my debt.

Okay.

Now I'm struggling with whether hustling so much and not really being home as often, if I'm losing time, quality time with family,

while health isn't good.

Oh, whose health is not good?

Yours or somebody in your family?

My parents.

Okay.

I'm sorry.

Is there something immediate happening or is it just kind of like they're just getting older and their health's declining?

Exactly.

Just age, getting older, losing that time.

How old are they?

70.

Okay.

Okay.

Are they, again, is there like an immediate health concern or are they generally healthy?

You just see them getting older?

Generally healthy, but we do have like a time on it.

The doctor said like within eight years.

Oh, so there's a diagnosis.

Yeah.

Okay.

Okay.

Okay.

How much debt do you have left, Lewis?

So I started with $130,000 and I'm down to $90,000.

Good for you.

Okay.

And what do you expect if you were to stay on this pace?

How long would it take you to pay off that 90?

So it's nice.

I live with my parents right now.

I'm a little old to still be there, but I'm able to throw about $7,000 a month at the loans.

Amazing.

Be able to have it done by the end by next Christmas.

Okay.

Okay.

So.

Well, let me tell.

Okay.

Yeah.

Okay, so I mean, can I just, from someone that's not emotionally entangled in the family, family, just from an outsider's perspective,

June, we got July, August, September, October.

We got about four months of hustling.

You live with your parents.

There's possibly an eight years

diagnosis of something, you know.

So

you do have time.

So if you stayed on the track that you're on for one year,

I think you'll be okay.

I mean, and I think you'll probably pay it off sooner than that.

But just from like a time perspective, like let me say this, Lewis, if you had called and your mom had a diagnosis and she had four months to live, I'd say pause everything.

Yes.

And do what you got to do with your family.

Like that, you would never regret that.

But it doesn't seem necessarily urgent.

And I think if you got out of debt faster, it would free you up not only to get out on your own, but also to have the ability to actually save and build wealth and do some things in these next seven years to maybe even um be a blessing to them in some way yeah i'm also thinking about okay so you're you're living with them now let's pretend that you weren't living with them and you were just you know as a 20 you're 23 right

yeah as a 23 year old you're just in your apartment right what is what does quality time look like is it we do a family dinner every sunday is it i i want to challenge that because living with them now i'm like you see them every day You probably see them in the morning You maybe probably see them when they come home or when you come home So I'm I'm wondering what is it that what's the specific thing that you're like man I'm missing out on that because that might maybe there's a remedy there sooner than later So if it's like a family dinner thing maybe instead of family dinner We do a thing on Saturday.

You know what I'm saying?

Is it something that you can shift around to where you still feel like I'm doing the special thing with them that I feel like I'm missing out on?

Or is it just in general, I'm just used to seeing them more throughout the day because then I would just challenge that and say hey if you didn't have this debt I'd be like telling you to move out anyway and start your life and go visit them when it makes sense does that make sense yeah that does and that's been like part of the question is I feel like I should be moved out already but they're not rushing me to move out and my mom's always saying what's the rush for you have no bills here we pay for your food and whatnot but it also I listen to you guys a lot and it

dwindle my growth as a man sure

yeah and i do wonder are they are they questioning how hard how hard you're working yes okay they're putting some guilt on like a dog i we what does that mean how many hours a week

um

Probably over 100.

Oh, wow.

So it doesn't matter.

I make about 110 to 120,000.

Okay.

What are you doing?

Is it a bunch of side hustles put together or one main job?

I have a main job that makes 70K base.

Okay, and then I do a bunch of side hustles.

I do freelance work.

I'm a dog sitter.

I do Uber.

Yeah.

Teach on my alma matter.

Golly, Lewis.

Well done.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I wonder: is some of this

feeling like I need to pull back because of my parents' health and spending quality time with them that's coming from them more so than you?

Yeah.

So

there is an interesting season of life

I think happens naturally if you, and again, not that this is right or wrong, Luis.

I'm not saying this at all, but if you like, get it, you know, you're out of college and you get married, there's a natural break that happens, you start, or there should be, right?

There's

or you get a job in a different city and your first job is in Dallas.

You're like, I got to move, like dependence.

There's some natural breaks that happen, and when those don't naturally happen, which again is not a bad thing, it's not that you're staying, you know, near your parents or still working in like none of that is wrong, but there's there's a harder dynamic to happen for a natural break to happen because it kind of naturally sets back into the norm of what you were like at 15 15 year old lewis versus 23 year old lewis and there's a difference there and um yeah 15 year old lewis is at dinner every night you you know all your

expectations yeah and i think too for some parents and i don't want to put this on yours but there's a there's a codependence there of that you're around and you're there and they need you and all of this and no truth I'm still vacuuming the house.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I'm like, man, Luis, that's a hard.

Do you have, do you have good friends in your life or any like older men that are not family in your life?

Not outside of work.

Okay.

I just wonder if there's like someone that knows you well to help kind of guide this.

I feel like this next season for you is really important to gain that independence.

And there's going to probably be some harder, uncomfortable, sad conversations with your parents.

And listen, I have a son and I joke all the time that Charles can live with me forever because I just

sorry, of course.

But when rubber meets the road, I'm like, no, I want him to go out and

become his own person.

So I'm like, there is a natural bent towards a mom and her son, absolutely.

But the fact that they're putting a lot of weight on you, Lewis, in this, and that makes me sad because you're going to have to untangle that yourself.

And there's going to have to, yeah, be some harder conversations of some boundaries of what's good for you and not what's good for us as a family unit at this point in life.

Right.

I just think that there's a yeah, the unit, the unit changes over time.

It morphs and it changes.

And none of it's all for good because you're, you have to be able to go out in life and do what they've done, which is they started a family and they, they built on what they had.

And you need to be able to go out and do that too.

And I, I honestly would probably challenge you to do that sooner.

Like you don't need to have paid off this 90,000 in debt before you go live on your own.

I would say to rent, like you can't go buy something because you're in debt, but you can go rent an apartment and have a roommate and kind of get that taste of independence.

And I think at the core of this, this is no longer a money question.

I think it was more about you feeling good about going out and being Lewis.

And,

you know, yeah, our parents age and they get older and the time shrinks.

And we figure out what that looks like in our in our life as adults with other things that we're balancing um

and that's kind of

that's kind of like the facts of life it's just kind of the way it happens and yeah you're not a bad son Lewis and not that it's on fire but I would start I'm with Jade I would I would start kind of pushing some some changes for you right and this is all for you and you're not doing anything wrong so hear me say that everything that you laid out I'm like nothing here is is wrong that's right well that does it for this hour of the show thanks for hanging out with us.

And remember, there's only ultimately one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.