His Dad Took Out $70K in Parent PLUS Loans and Didn’t Tell Him

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Normal is broken, common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life from the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio.
This is the Ramsey Show.

The phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225.

Alongside the fabulous Jay Borshaw, i'm ken coleman we're here together she's going to help you save uh and spend the money i'm going to help you make more money that's my role here on the ramsey show i got to remind people from time to time i like that i'm going to help you win at work two ways to win with money we've got to make sure we're controlling the outflow and we want to get more inflow if you will so there it is that's how we tag team we start off with bill who is joining us in new jersey bill how can we help today

hi guys how are you doing today we're doing well what's going on

so yeah i'm calling because i'm in a bit of a situation here uh with some college uh loans that i have some uh student loans that are uh they're parent plus loans though so they're under my father's name and uh but i'm the one uh paying them um

They're about three different loans. They total to about 70K in total between the three.

And they have about 7% interest rate. At the moment, I've been paying about $4.50 a month on them, but I just did the calculations.

And with the interest rate, it doesn't look like I'm going to be paying them off anytime soon with that. Nope.

So I was just looking for some guidance there on

what to do. All right.
I do have some other debts as well. Obvious question.

These loans your dad took out were for your education. True or false?

True. Okay.
And what are you doing for a living?

At the moment, I'm a manager at a Jersey Mike's. I actually ended up dropping out during COVID.
They wanted me to pay full tuition for online classes, and I was not about that.

What were you in school to do?

Originally, I was a biochem major, and I was planning on a pre-med track, but that first year I really did not enjoy it. And I decided, all right, I'm not going to want to do this the rest of my life.

Happy I got out then instead of going into Mordecai for medical school.

And then, you know, I was kind of in like an in-between area and then we all got sent home and, you know, I didn't end up picking anything. So what do you, what are you making now at Jersey Mike's?

I make about 90K a year. Okay.
And that's a management position?

Yes. Okay.
Do you have any other ideas for your future?

I would like to go into franchising and continue with the

quick service. Okay.
So you found found your spot. That's cool.
That's great. Yeah.
No, I love it. Okay.
Came back after over COVID, fell in love. We realized this is what I want to do.
Okay, great.

That checks that box. So now we can bring Jade in here and we start going, okay, let's knock this out.
Let's get her the full picture.

Beyond the 70,000 in over three student loans, what other debt do you have? Give us the full picture.

So I have about

$4,500 on a credit card. I've been pretty aggressively or trying to aggressively paying that off at the moment.

I do also have about $3,000 left on a car loan. Okay.

And I also have 9,000 of my own student loans as well. So Tommy, what was the deal on the student loans?

Did you know from the beginning that you were going to be on the hook for those parent plus loans, even though it was just your dad's name on the note? I did not know they existed. Oh,

how did you find out? So

because my uncle is a co-signer on them, and so I was paying the ones that were in my name, and I was doing that all. Actually, I started paying them early before I even had to.

Because I did not want them gaining more interest. And, you know, so is your uncle and your dad, your uncle and your dad took these out?

Yeah, so my dad took them out, and my uncle had to co-sign on those loans for them. How did you think education was being paid for?

When you were showing up for class, in your mind, how was it being paid for?

So I knew I had to have some loans, but when I was selling out the like FAFSA and doing that stuff with my dad, I was under the impression that I had like grants and that it was,

you know, that I had gotten

assistance from the school. So you thought the 9,000.
A lot more. You thought the 9,000 was it and everything else was grants and help? So the 9,000 is what's left.
It was originally 20. Gotcha.

But I've paid it down to 9,000 nine so far. So

how did it come to be that you're paying for loans that you didn't even know were being taken out? How did that happen? Did your uncle call you up? Dad called?

Yeah, I got an email from my uncle saying,

you know, like, hey, why haven't you been paying your student loans? And I was very taken aback because I was like, I have been. Like, I started doing it early.
I don't know what you're talking about.

I showed him my loans as well. And then, you know, he pulled up what he had and he showed me, no, they're past due.

Like, I don't know what you're listening this is and then we figured it out and then my father finally was like oh yeah like i had to do that listen i i'm not in the business of uh splitting up families or you know trying to cause drama between families this is so

um

This is so messed up.

It's really messed up. It's a polite way of saying it.
Yeah, it is. And I want to know, tell me, but it might not be as messed up if I hear your side of it.

In your mind, are you like, this is my responsibility? I'm happy to pay it. It was my education.
It makes sense to me. Jade, I'm cool.

Or is this something that causes you a bit of resentment and anger? And

is it problematic for you emotionally?

Half and half. I'm actually not going to let it get in between my relationship with me and my father.
And any means, he's been a great dad, you know,

nothing like that. I was definitely a little frustrated with him because about two years ago, I was looking to move out

and I did end up moving out. But before I did, a similar situation happened with my brother as well, where he had student loans that he was not aware of

that my father did also take out. I don't know if they were under his name or under my brother's name in that situation, but

you know, I just remember him being pretty upset, not knowing about those. Yeah.

So before I moved out, I went to my father and asked him, I was like, hey, do I have any other student loans that I'm not aware of that I should be paying right now before I move out?

Because if I did know that I had this 70K, I probably would not have moved out when I did. I would have stayed home and tried to put more of my

resources towards these to get them paid down.

And how long, you know, my dad was like, how long after the fact that they were due, did you find out about them? Because, you know, after six months, they become due upon graduation. So how long?

I think

there was some,

like, I forget what it's called, but they, they were like pushed back and delayed because of COVID and there was a lot of stuff there.

And you didn't know all that time, all that time that you could have been paying them off interest-free. You didn't know about them.
I did not know about them.

Let me tell you, I'm going to be flat out honest with you. I love relationships.
I love that you are honoring your parents. This is bothering me.

Now, if you tell me, this is your life, so you can decide. If you tell me, Jade, I'm just going to go ahead and pay it.
Can you please move on with the advice? Fine. The advice would be for me,

you need to take all the debts, credit cards, car, student loans, list them smallest to largest. Based on what you told me, we need to be tackling the car first.

All your extra money after you've paid minimum payments, all the extra needs to go on that car, knock it out fast. And then next would be the credit cards, next would be the student loan.

And then you'd start tackling the $70,000 student loan in chunks. But if it were me, I'd be having a serious conversation.

And at the very least, I'd say, I'm paying half of this because I didn't know about it, and I had an opportunity to take care of it when there was no interest, and you didn't do me the service of even telling me about it.

So, you're on the hook for half, and it's not in your name.

I agree. Well said, Amen.
Pass the plates.

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Jenny is up next in Atlanta, Georgia. Jenny, how can we help today?

Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. Sure.
Sorry, I'm a little nervous. You're doing great.
We're going to take good care of you.

Thank you.

My husband and I are getting a late start. We don't have any retirement.
We don't have a house. I'm 45.
He's 51. We have debt.
We want to know what we can do to catch up.

He's not as gung-ho as I am, but he's getting there. He kind of kept the debt from me, and we're trying to live.
correct right now in every area possible.

We have counseling we're paying for because of trauma we've been through. I'm working three jobs.
He's working two.

So it's just kind of a lot right now. Okay, so it sounds like we're getting very busy.
Sounds like you guys are trying to make more money and come after this, correct?

Yes, we've been trying for the last few months. He kind of was doing it on his own, and when I kind of found out more about it, he

like we got kind of more aggressive about it. What was the debt?

What was the debt that he kept from you?

We have about like 30,000 debt plus the cars, so 50.

And I knew we had like a little bit, but I never knew how much. He just always told me he was taking care of it.
And yes, but what I'm asking

what was the debt? Obviously, the cars you probably knew about, but what was the other debt that you didn't know anything about?

We have a debt consolidation loan, and there was some credit cards.

My insurance isn't good, so we've had some medical debts.

We have IRS that we have to pay.

So it wasn't, I'm just trying to get a read on this. It wasn't what we call financial infidelity where he was hiding all kinds of expenditures.
You just weren't paying attention.

And you guys kind of got behind the eight ball and then he tried to consolidate. I'm just trying to get an understanding of when you say, I didn't know about it.

Where are you guys emotionally on this deal? Where does it stand?

Yeah, it wasn't like he was out spending stuff per se, but like a lot of restaurants and stores and nothing like major, but things like that.

And I just felt like I was supposed to be the submissive wife and not really involved in the money. And I had like the wrong mindset.

And now that I do, we're trying to do it right, but it's really hard to break the habit. Like

you know, to not go to restaurants and things like that. Okay.
And so one other question here, because Jade's going to jump in, but I'm just kind of gathering some facts.

So

you guys have tried. He's tried on his own.
Now he makes makes you aware of it. Now you're going, okay, gosh, we don't like the way this feels.
We're going after this.

But you started the call by saying, I'm ready to go all in. I'm calling the Ramsey show today.
He's sort of kind of not there. What is he not on board?

That'll help us. Where is he not on board with where you are?

I mean, he is mostly, but like, I'm trying to live for the Lord. I mean, we're both trying to live for the Lord in every way possible.
And just money is kind of not his focus right now.

He's trying to get like healed in other ways.

Got it. Is this a priority right now?

You're kind of talking a little bit in riddles.

And I think it's because you're trying to protect

delicate information, it seems like.

But I want to ask you, is money the most important thing you need to be like, is walking the baby steps the most important thing you need to be worried about right now?

Or are there other fires that are more important that need to be put out?

I mean, I guess I kind of want to do both. Like, we're trying to get our money right, but we're trying to get everything else right in our life at the same time.

And, like, I know counseling is a huge priority for us that I don't want to give up. Right.
All right. So, how much are we spending on that a month?

Like, a thousand dollars

for me and my husband and my daughter. Okay, good.
Okay, great. But that gives us something to work with.
So, we've got a thousand dollars a month, Jade, that we want to protect at all costs.

Keep it on there. Keep it on there.
Okay.

I asked that question because

money is important. Like, Ken, you already know.
It touches everything, Jenny, and you can see this. It touches your relationships, your job, your spirituality, all of it, right?

It's all encompassing.

That being said, sometimes in an attempt to not focus on other things, we focus on.

the baby steps, being intense about that. This is the thing I'm going to focus on when really your marriage is falling apart, right? And so what I don't want you to do is focus on the wrong thing.

If what you're telling me is, Jade, we want to do it. We just, I just simply want to know, is it okay for me to keep $1,000 aside for counseling? Yeah, the answer is yes.
You have to be a well person.

That's like me telling you that walking the baby steps is not an excuse to eat ramen noodles. Like you need to be healthy.
You need to do this the right way.

So I don't know why you had to single out ramen noodles, but we'll talk about that later.

Sodium alone, Kent. So yeah, let's walk through the numbers.
$1,000 on counseling. I'm fine with that.
Tell me what you guys bring in a month.

And then we can talk about what's going to feel realistic for you in this season when you're so heavily getting the mental help that you guys all need.

Thank you. We bring in about $7,500 a month.
Okay, $7,500 a month. How much of that is rent?

$1,900. Okay, great.
Okay, so biggest expenses: $1,900 on rent, $1,000 on counseling, any daycare or anything like that I need to know about? Like high-dollar stuff?

Yeah, my daughter's tuition is $300.

I'm on a medicine that's $550, but I donate plasma, so I mainly pay for that out of that money. Okay, so that's kind of a wash

on the $550. Okay, so I'm looking at this and I'm going, okay,

I'm seeing $3,200 that's going away in must-haves. What's happening to the other 37?

Paying off debt, groceries,

you know, just different bills like that, I feel like. And when you put all that in your budget,

how much are you putting extra on the debt? Not minimum payments, but above and beyond a minimum payment. How much are you putting extra?

I mean, we're trying to, but we don't have like a set number. It's just kind of like whatever we have left over, we do.
Okay, so that's what we'll fix today. That's what we'll fix today.

Because if you guys are on fixed, you know, you get basically paid the same amount every two weeks or every month, whatever, what have you, then this should be like clockwork.

So what I need is for you guys to get on an every dollar budget. And if you don't have one, do you have one?

Yeah, I do have every dollar.

Okay, so when you open up every dollar, it should be really cut and dry for you, Jenny, to be able to see, okay, we make $7,500, $1,900 goes to run, $1,000 to counseling, $300 to school.

Because of my plasma, we only pay $100 for the medication, right? All of that's in the budget.

And then it's going to show you after all the things that must be done, gas, groceries, insurance, there's going to be a number up there.

In your case, it should be in the green of extra money that it is now. Okay, what do we want to do with this money? And here's the thing, Ginny.

The choices are: we can put this extra money towards DoorDash.

We can put this extra money towards a vacation that we want to go on.

We can put this extra money towards a slush fund that just gets eaten away with by going to the gas station and gets eaten away with by running to Sonic, right?

Or we can say, at the end of every month, we have $1,300 and that is going going on the smallest debt every month, no matter what, like clockwork. Do you see what I'm saying? Yeah.

And that's, I think that's what you were talking to Ken about earlier, about the kind of, we just need to start doing it part,

right?

And that's what I'm trying to do. It's just, you know,

getting there, I guess, is hard. And you tell me, tell me, tell me the emotionals, the emotion that you feel when you know the money is there, but you do something else.
Is it, I work really hard?

I just deserve this. Is it I'm just so tired? Is it I'm frustrated? Tell me what you're feeling that's causing you not to do the thing.

I guess frustrated. I know restaurants is really like our weakness.
And like, we say we're not going to go, and then we go. And

just, you know, changing and living that new lifestyle is pretty hard. And I think it's getting to that point.
I want to know, I think it is, just listening to you.

I think you're scared.

I think you're afraid. I think you've seen life one way and the idea of it looking different scares you.
Well, I agree with that. And

I also would say that

now hearing what we know, I think it's hard enough going through therapy, trying to change our life, deal with the trauma, whatever hurt is attached to all this. Can we reset our family? And

that on its own is exhausting. Yeah, it's exhausting.
And I think it's hard to go, come on, babe. You need to join me on this debt-free journey, too.
You're right, Ken.

So, I do think it is fear of the confrontation and how exhausting that is. But I do think that I would take this to the therapist and go, Hey, did a phone call.
We're trying to do this money thing.

Can you coach us in this therapy about how important it is that we get on the same page there? I would take it to the professional help. Love that you're spending a thousand dollars a month.
Yep.

But you guys have got to lean in on every issue.

Take that and use that thousand dollars, and it's going to benefit.

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All right, folks. It's the most wonderful time of the year.
Can you believe that? Talking about it now. It feels like it's getting earlier now.
It is. I put up my tree, did you? Oh, yeah.
Trees.

Oh, yeah. Trees.
And by the way, the weekend after Halloween. Yeah.
And Mrs. Coleman said, head on up to the attic area.
That's right. That's the job.

By the way, if you see me and I look a little stiff today on camera, it's because I pulled a muscle on the right upper side of the old back trying to

leave a Christmas tree box.

And I'm thinking to myself, I have a strong young man who's 17 years of age. Why didn't I wait for him?

This is your plight in life, Ken. He'll have his time.
I know. He'll have his time.
I just wanted to get it over with, and you'll learn a lesson.

But the Ramsey Christmas deals are here.

We don't create the fury. We just go along with it.
And boy, oh boy, are these good deals? These prices won't last.

You've got $13 best-selling hardcovers, $12 questions for human decks, $7.99 audiobooks and e-books, $20 assessments. Hello, the old get clear assessments in there.

And I would love for y'all to get the get-clear career assessment. It'll help you.

And my kids need new shoes. Especially, but in the new year, to know

where you want to go with your life. Yeah, that's a far more redeeming reason.
I was just

blatantly saying, hey,

yeah, I got kids in college. Kid needs back care.
I got back. Yeah, I want to need to go see the chiropractor.

But hey, you can get all the great deals at ramseysolutions.com slash store, ramseysolutions.com slash store. Or if you're on YouTube or podcasts, you can click on the link in the show notes.

John is up in Colorado. John, how can we help?

Hey,

very glad I got you today, Ken. And you, Miss Warshaw.
Thank you. But it's a career

question that I had. Okay.

So I currently work for the state of Colorado.

It's a relatively safe

job, as you can imagine, with the government, but we've seen lately that that may not be the case. But anyway, it's a relatively safe job.

I absolutely love what I do, it gives me the ability to do some other side gigs and authorship of some books I write.

So I have a pretty good life, a good career. I love what I do.
But there's always that looming question of

should I go into the private sector again and possibly make make a quite a significant amount more.

So I guess it's a question of do I continue to sacrifice enjoyment and

safety over, you know, trying to put myself better ahead from, you know, more financially. That's kind of what the gist of my question is.
Okay, appreciate that.

Let's let's break this down a little bit more because

I don't think you've got the proper context for your choice, but let's see. I could be wrong.
Good. So what do you make in the government job there in Colorado?

By the way, is it a federal government job or a Colorado state?

State. Okay, state job.

All right, what do you make? Yep.

120. And what would you say you do? I don't care so much about your title.
What do you do? Oh, that's okay. Yeah, no,

I'm a land surveyor. So I work for the Department of Transportation, and I, you know, do land surveying for new construction or roads or improvements.
What do you love most about that work?

Or what do you enjoy most about it?

The people I work with, it's considered

a very good land surveying job. I'm doing land survey work.
I'm not doing that. I get it, but you're going off the...
I want you to answer me very literally.

I'm going somewhere to answer your question. So I asked you, what do you enjoy most about the work? And you said, the people.
That's a perfectly fine answer.

Anything else that meets the enjoy description

about the work itself?

Don't give me it say. Going outside.
Okay, outside. Great.

What else?

The projects are pretty cool.

I get to

help the public. It feels like I'm truly a public servant.
Great. Good answers.
All right.

So

you mentioned that you believe, which leads me to believe you've done some research, that if you were to go do something else in the private sector, you could make a good bit more money.

How much more money and would you be in the same land surveying in the same industry if we use that word?

Yes. How much more money than that? I've done a lot of research, and I've done research, and I have job offers to prove that I could probably make $30,000 to $40,000 more a year.

And yes, the job will be comparable, but

there's a lot more stress involved, a lot more hours, and, you know, all the typical private sector stuff.

Well,

see, I'm a guy who's worked in both. So, full disclosure, when I was a young guy in my early 20s, I worked for the governor of Virginia.
So I lasted 12 months, Jade.

I could not handle the pace of government work. Not slow.
I'm not. It's not slow? Yeah, absolutely.

The way the decisions are made, it is a lot more low-key is what I'm hearing from you, John. But the trade-off is you're not getting paid what you should be and could be making.

So the next question is, is when you come to us and you say, should I change my job for more money? The question is, what would we do with more money? So let's say you make $150.

What would you do with that additional money? Where would that go in your life? Is that paying off debt? Is that investing more? Is that enjoying life more? What's the rest of the story?

It'd be investing more and enjoying life. I'm completely debt-free.
I own my own home. I have no debt.

Save like 25% of my check as it is.

But I do have dreams of, you know, building a home in the the mountains and I'm trying to cash flow that.

Well, I'm going to tell you right now, ding, ding, ding, there's the answer. I would absolutely go private sector and deal with maybe a little bit more stress.
I'm not sure that we can guarantee that.

And deal with a little bit more hours in order to fast forward or guarantee, based on the narrative you've given me, the private sector allows you to do that faster and with more certainty, true or false.

It does. It does.
Done deal. Jade, we always answer, what would we do?

We've heard my answer. I would absolutely go private sector and I would invest more and I would see if I could climb the ladder even higher than what you've researched.

What would you do in his situation? I mean, I'm going to go part emotional, part tactical.

For me, after knowing what the answer is, which is, yeah, we're going private sector, I would then run out the numbers so that I can get emotionally attached to it.

So that I can see, hey, if I'm earning $40,000 a year, that means I'm going to get to my dream of my cabin or house in the mountains five years faster, right? 40,000 more, right? Yeah, 40,000 more.

I want to see that math. I want to know those numbers.
I want to know that timeline so I can create. a tie with that.
If I don't do this, I'm not going to have the house until 2040.

If I do have the house, I'm going to have it in 2035, right?

Like knowing that allows you to get excited about it, allows you to create milestones, allows you to do all the things that are going to keep your excitement when the hours feel long, when you're wondering if you never should have made this decision, right?

So

that's what I would do. I would really make this so crystal clear, understanding what I'm trading and what I'm getting in return for my trade.
Yeah, I think that's so beautiful.

John, I think that's homework assignment.

Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a great exercise.
I'll give you the last piece on this. There's been several books, lots of research done on patients who are in hospice care and how they share

their regrets with their loved ones, with their caretakers. There's multiple pieces of work on this that you all can go kick the tires on.

But one of the constants, one of the consistent regrets that we hear from those that

know that their time is nigh and they're going to die soon is, I regret that I didn't live the life that I truly wanted to live.

And John, you gave us a pretty clear vision for how you'd like things to go in the future.

And I think that beyond Jade's exercise, I think I love her. I love that

prompt she gave you. But I would add to that, if I don't do this,

will I be on my deathbed regretting that I never went for it? Because the safe government job is always going to be there. But I kept hearing safety, safety, safety.

And I would challenge that to say the way we teach you to manage your money, which is we save up for it. We make solid, strong investments that are diversified, that have a track record.

We don't buy something we don't have money for. All of those things are safe,

but they ultimately lead to a life of adventure. And I think that's what you're craving.
So, my friend, we have spoken on the matter. What will you do, John? I know what he's doing.

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All right, let's go to Richmond, Virginia. Sydney joins us there.
Sydney, how can we help?

Hi, how are y'all doing? Great. How are you? I'm doing good.
Thank you.

So my husband and I are trying to figure out how to best handle our debt.

So we own my car outright, but he still has an auto loan and he also has some student loans.

but we also have a seven-month-old and so we are trying to be cautious about how aggressively we tackle our debt we do have a mortgage of course but

and we have thirty thousand dollars in savings and we're just trying to figure out how best to tackle our debt and efficiently tackle it all right so tell me what the car loan is

So we have $18,955.81 remaining on that. All right.
And what is that car worth? Do you know if you sold it private sale?

I would maybe say around $30,000, maybe. Okay.
All right. Just wanting to know.
And then student loan debt. What is the total? The remaining on that is $8,952.85.

Look at you. I love that you're giving us to the cent, by the way.
You are on this, Sydney.

So that's the totality of debt. We're not counting the house.
So that's it.

Yes, that's it. And you got 30 grand in the bank.

Yes. Savings.
And how long have you been listening to the Ramsey show or paying attention to what we teach here at Ramsey Solutions?

Not as long as my husband. My husband is a big fan of y'all's.
He has been listening for a lot longer than me, but

is he there with you now?

He is not. He is at work.
He's a sheriff's deputy, and so he's tied up at work.

Did he know I would call? Okay, so he put you up to call on us.

He said it would be cool if I did. Okay, here's what's funny about this:

because if he's been following us and he's big fans, he knows what we're going to say about that $30,000 in savings, doesn't he?

I think he does, but I told him that

I am a little bit scared. Yeah, you opened with that.
You said you were feeling cautious, and I was interested in knowing what that meant.

And then, as the information unraveled, now I know exactly what it means. She's freaking out over us telling her to take $29,000.

Yeah. Or actually, no, $27.

Actually, we get to leave some in there. Yeah.
Okay. So

let me paint you a picture.

Let me just paint you a picture.

You're completely debt-free.

You have not one debt in the world. No one can come after you.
No one can take anything from you. You got $3,000 sitting in the bank.
All of your income. when you get paid in November will go to you.

No more payments to a car, no more payments to a student loan.

Then you can take all that money that you were paying for a car payment, all that money that you were paying for student loans, and you could just drop it over in savings.

Before you know it, you'll have 5,000. Before you know it, you'll have 10,000.
And you don't owe anybody anything.

And you've got a one-year-old at home and you've got four months of savings and you've got no debt. How awesome does that feel?

It sounds amazing. And because, I mean, it is so true.
We are a slave to our

slave to our debt. And I just, my only concern and fear is, you know, heaven forbid something happened to one of our vehicles, something happened to, you know, the HVAC or whatever.

For a big ticket item. You want to know what I love that you're doing.
Here's what I love about what you're doing. You are putting detail to your fears.

Okay, because you said you were cautious, which really was amounting to a fear that you were facing about this. And there's really

two ways to have fear about this. One is an irrational fear, and the other is rational.
Usually, the irrational ones are very vague. It's like, oh, if we do this, it's going to ruin everything.

Well, what do you mean by that? But you got details and you said, well, here's the thing, Jade, what if our car goes out? Okay, that is totally rational. So let's fix it.

Now we can look at it and go, okay, well, let's put some truth to this. The truth is, you make a monthly income, don't you?

Yes. How much do you guys make every month?

Combined, it's about

$6,400 a month. Okay.
And how much of that are you putting towards your debt payments every single month? Plus extra because you're trying to pay a savings account you guys have been building.

I'm getting to that.

How much are you putting aside?

So

his income pays for all of the bills. All of my income just goes into savings.
So I make about $1,400 a month because I went part-time since we had our son. So you've got the $1,400.

And then you've got the $3,000.

You've got the $3,000 that's already there. So have you ever had a car, something happen with your car that costs more than $4,400 to fix?

Not yet. I hope I don't.
Will you go and Google something that you think will cost $4,400 to fix? Because I don't think it's there.

Yeah, I don't think so either. So do you see what I did there? All I did was I took a fear that's okay for you to have.
Totally normal.

And I just ran it through a process of saying, first off, is it true? Is it rational? We decided it is. That's fine.

And then we said, is there something that's more true that we can replace it with so that we can actually go ahead and do the thing that's going to set us free? Do you see what I did there? Yes.

There is not something that you cannot cash flow in the next month. Do you see what I'm saying? And then as you go, you're going to keep saving, like Ken said.
Well, what's the car payment?

It's $497.

Okay, let's round that up to $500. What's the student loan payment?

Like $180. Okay, so let's round that up.
I'm going to round that up to $700 on top of your $1,400. Now all of a sudden, we've got $2,100 a month.

We're putting straight to savings to rebuild the emergency fund that you did out of order.

Plus the $3,000 that's there. Plus the $3,000.
So we're at $5,100 within 30 days of being debt-free. $5,100 in savings.

So what else could happen in 30 days that you, that, that the sky would fall? I can't think of anything that insurance wouldn't pay for. Do you see what I'm saying? So

now we see it was okay. It was okay for you to feel scared.
It was okay.

But now we go, hey, now that we add it to the truth of what's really going on, now it becomes irrational, right? It would be silly for you not to pay off this debt.

And I think you guys have more margin than you're even reporting to us because we're not digging.

And so how quickly could you guys get to $10,000 in savings after paying all of this off in one fell swoop?

That's another fun exercise. How quickly can I get to $10,000 so that your fear gland

stops being so?

We're just like, oh, it relaxes. So

that's what we're going to tell you to do. It's what we tell everybody to do.

Pay it off. Pay it off.
And you want to know what I'm giving you permission to do?

Pay it off. And in two months, if it was the worst thing you ever did, call me back and tell me about myself.

Call me back and say, hey, Jade said I could come on the radio and cuss her out for the terrible advice she gave me. You won't do it because you're going to be like, this is the best thing ever.

I'm debt-free and I've got three to six months of expenses. And I'm so glad that Jaden Ken talked me into doing the next best step with my money instead of me letting fear hold me back.

That's what's going to happen.

That sounds good. Yeah, sounds good.

But it doesn't feel good. And that's your challenge.
And I'm going to tell you right now, I think you're on the fence. I think you're on the fence as to whether or not you're going to do this.

She's going to go home and she's going to mull it over. And I expect you to.
All right. I think you would be kind of crazy to just, two people on the radio told me to do something.
I'm doing it.

No, go, go be, I want you to be very thoughtful about what we told you. I want you to think about it.
And if you give it fair thought, I promise you, you will see that we're right.

You'll see that we're right. My husband uses the

app, the Every Dollar app, and he has showed me numerous times

what our leftover money would be if we didn't have these debts. And

the fears are louder than the

positives of it. But at the same time,

like you said, I need to be realistic about if

something did happen. Fear and caution are two different things.
Fear and caution are two different things. Fear is what's going to stop you.

I don't know what's it's a

perception of the future that's negative. That's what fear is it's not based on today it's based on what you think is going to happen in the future right

right quick question what's the amount

that you would let go of today to really to get rid of debt of the 30 000 how much would you go oh i'll let go of this and i'll feel fine i'm just curious

i would pay off the auto loan

Let's do that today and then sleep on the rest of the idea. How about that? I like that.
How about that? I like that. That's fair.
Yeah. Do 18.
Do 18 18 and then take Jade up on our offer.

Okay. You didn't know I was going to do that to you.
I like that, Ken. I'm with it.
I like it. Let's try.
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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, alongside Jade Warshaw and Ken Coleman. So excited that you're with us today.
888-825-5225 is the phone number.

New Jersey is where we're going to go. And James is hanging out there.
James, how can we help?

Hey, Ken and Jade, good to hear from you both. Sure.
Thanks for taking my call. So I was just laid off from my corporate job about three weeks ago.

And the good news is I have a decent severance package where I'll be okay for at least the next six months. Okay.
Give or take, not too much from that. And I have a fully funded emergency fund.

After hearing about that, my pastor actually asked me to help him with a new startup basically that he's launching. It's a for profit business, but the streaming service, it's a streaming service.

It's all pre revenue, still waiting to finalize details on investors. So right now, they have no money to play pay employees, basically.

And has a pretty promising future that I can't really talk too much more about. But the team that is currently quote unquote employed with the service all have other jobs and other forms of income.

I would basically be the only one that would be working full-time without any alternative income other than the severance package.

So I guess my question is: if I were to pursue this, I'm not as concerned about my finances because it seems to be okay at least for the next six months.

But if I'm devoting 40 hours a week to the startup with literally no contract, no employment agreement, no guarantee about eventually being compensated, it's all based on like a very loose verbal agreement.

And even that was kind of unclear. No, I'm not going to listen any further because

it's like food's threatening to come up. You know, I I hear this and I'm getting more and more sick to my stomach hearing this idea.

There is nothing good about this. No, you're a volunteer, which, by the way, you can volunteer

five hours a week,

whatever extra time you have, to say, hey, in good faith,

I'll do what I can when I can.

And let's hope this thing gets funded and it turns into something. But you're protecting yourself.
The other thing is, and again, we always answer questions, what would we do if we were in your shoes?

Jade will weigh in here on her take.

But if I'm you, I'm thrilled I have a six-month severance, but I don't want to touch that. Right.
I don't want to live off that. Now, that's just me.

So I'm going, all right, I was laid off from a corporation, so I've got a lot of skill and a lot of experience, true or false.

Yeah, true.

And nothing to be ashamed of. This is not a stain on you.
The economy is really weird right now. It's the best way I can describe it.
It's not hot. It's not awful.

But jobs and corporations, I mean, we're seeing a lot of layoffs. We're seeing a very slow hiring market.
So I'm not looking at today's wins and going, man, I feel great about six months. I'm going,

I want to treat my plight as though I don't have any severance at all. And I got just enough money in the bank to make it a month, Jade.
So maybe

mindset is I got 30 days so that I'm not, I don't want to be running around like chicken little, the sky is falling, the sky is falling.

But I would be very urgent and I would not give these people any time

that would take away from your ability. Everybody else has got a 40-hour week job.
Ding, ding, ding, so do you need one.

And I would be my number one focus is getting back into the job market and getting employed. And we'll see how this thing with my good pastor.
And I'm going to say something else just because,

and I'm going to give it a disclaimer, and I want Jade to come in and give her take.

My disclaimer is: I don't know anything about your pastor, and I don't know anything about this business, but there was enough in that to make me go, there ain't nothing about what you told me that makes me think this is anywhere remotely close to a sure thing.

And so, for that reason, I'm definitely out and I would just help out and see if it turns into something.

Sorry for being a little cynical, Jade, but that's where I started. I mean, you turned this into shark tank when you said, for that reason, I'm out, and

I'm going to take a page from that notebook, and Mr. Wonderful would say, there's some ideas you just need to take them out back and shoot them.

Yep, this is one of them. And for that reason, I'm out.

And what are your thoughts on his urgency? Oh, I feel like he's a little too relaxed. You're a little relaxed, but I think that

I'm sensing that you're relaxed because you know you can go out and get another job today or tomorrow. Like you're a smart guy.
You were good at what you did. I don't think you're concerned with that.

My bigger question is:

is that the type of work you want to do anymore?

And is that why you are looking towards something like this as kind of a lifeline of, you know, I don't know if I want to do the same kind of work anymore. This kind of seems cool.

My question is, is it time for a career shift? Is that what this is really about? That would be my question on a deeper level. Ken? Yeah, James.
I mean, it sounds to me like you got,

I don't know, you've gotten swayed by your pastor who you look up to, and he's pretty excited about this.

That's what I think has happened. And it's kind of a shiny object that's distracted you, correct?

Yeah, I mean, to be fair, like

he didn't say we're never going to pay you. He just literally has been juggling this whole project.
Yeah, but there's no business plan. There's no timeline.
There's no, there's nothing.

You don't have to defend him. We're not attacking him.
We're just saying for you right now,

this is a shiny object that could distract you to your credit. You call us to ask us what we think.
And we're saying, don't pay attention to the shiny object. Keep walking.
Let's walk forward.

Let's see if this thing materializes.

Yeah. Got it? I mean,

sure. Go ahead.

The one last thing was just like, I was even considering like going to actually Bible college. I'm a single guy, no kids, no mortgage, nothing like that.

I've considered doing a lot more mission-focused, like Christian-focused type stuff.

And this was kind of what I thought could be like an intersection of both of those and i was also just wondering more broadly what like dave and your take would be on pursuing something that doesn't have as much of a guaranteed paycheck or you can do even if it doesn't you can do ministry and still have an income Yes, and you could also decide to go be a full-time missionary and make a lot less money.

Yeah. I don't have a problem with that.
That's not what you gave us. You gave us this, well, there's this opportunity, and now you're saying it's a cross-section.
And I'm saying it might very well be.

it is not now so if you as a single guy you want to kick the tires and consider mission work or ministry work great go for it but that's a full-time job that

if you have to change your lifestyle to meet that new salary I'm fine with that but this this other deal is not any of those things I agree

yeah fair enough it's a super exciting volunteer job So treat it that way. How much time can you give it

in line with everything else that you need to do? And what you need to do is figure out what God has for you next. Here's what I'm going to do for you.

I would love to gift you my book and it comes with the assessment, the get clear career assessment. The book's called How, excuse me, Find the Work You're Wired to Do.

I recommend you take the assessment and read this book. Take about 45-minute reading.
It'll really help you make some good decisions about how you're wired and what the next steps are for you.

So hang on the line. And we'll get you that book and the assessment.

So this wasn't about a good business idea. This was about shifting a career shift into a different field.
That's really what the question is.

I think you nailed it. I think he's been kicked out of the nest and he's like, okay, he's clearly not on fire financially.
He's got six months where he can breathe.

And here comes this thing that is a shiny object. It's attached to ministry, his church, his pastor.
It's all aligning with his heart.

And I love that, but we need to use our head too. That's right.
And I'm a fan of getting the heart and the head aligned. So important.
Then your hands do what they need to be doing. That's right.

So, you know, again, you're in great shape here,

but make wise decisions.

A lot of prayer, a lot of feedback from other people in your life, not just two people on the air that have taken just a smidge of all of this involved and tried to give you good advice.

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Angela joins us next in Mississippi. Angela, how can we help?

Hey, Ken and Jade, thanks for speaking with me today. I

was calling specifically about some advice on instilling contentment at a young age.

A little context. We have a six and a half year old daughter in first grade

and my husband and I

we have financially decided to invest in her future

and send her to a private Christian education and so that's where a large quarter of our income goes every month and

We are already seeing a keeping up with the Joneses issue arising.

So she's in first grade. She's coming back.

and she wants what her friends have.

I can name a few examples, but they're really creepy little fuzzy keychain critters and it's little things like that where

you know what I'm talking about. Yeah, I do.

It's little things like that where we had no intention of getting her one or anything like that.

And quite honestly, she didn't even know what it was until she went to school

and everybody else had them so we see this problem arising of even as she gets older of going to school and you know wanting what all the quote-unquote cool kids have or you know that's going to happen

that's going to happen no matter what regardless of what school they go to

yeah

um

and so we were my husband and i were just wondering how do we start teaching her contentment now before it gets bigger.

We We've done FPU for kids with her, and so she's super excited about her envelopes and has like the biggest heart, loves to save, loves to give,

also really loves to spend. And so how do we

transition this into just being content with you, with what you already have? Because saying, oh, well, just be grateful for what you already have.

You know, not all kids have X, Y, that's how it goes so far with a

Yeah, listen,

I am, Angela, I am in that boat with you right now. I have a kid in second grade.
I have a kindergartner, and I am having those same conversations all the time.

And you want to know what I think part of it is, is when you're a kid, I mean, you're born selfish, right? It's give me my food when I'm ready. You know, everybody does everything for me.

The world kind of revolves around them. And they, when they see something they want, they want it.
And especially if their friends have it, they want it too.

So part of that's just the nature of being a kid. And I'll tell you where I'm at now.
I don't know that I'm right because I'm not ahead of you. Ken can probably give us some better judgment here.

But what I'm at right now is I feel like I'm planting seeds. So if I'm planting the seeds, I usually don't see the crop for quite a while.

And it can be tempting to think that if I plant the seed, then tomorrow I'll see the fruit. And it's just not like that.

So I've kind of told myself, I'm telling them, hey, the things, things aren't what make you happy this is gonna you know you've got to be you've got to learn to be happy with what you have you don't have to look at other people right I can plant all of those seeds and then I've got to just wait for them to grow and then the other part for me is what am I how what am I like and am I a person that every time I go to the store I have to buy something am I a person that every time I see something I'm commenting on it and saying oh I wonder let's see I wonder if I can get that right I also have to check myself and make sure what am I putting into the house because if I'm a person who seems like every time I walk in the house, I have shopping bags.

Well, then I'm not really helping my case here. So that's where I'm at.
Ken, you're the wise, the wise old owl here. Well, you got part of it right.
I'm the old owl. I don't know how wise I am, but

our kids are 20, 17, and 16. And my wife, Stacey, did a phenomenal job on this.
And I can tell you some of the things that we did. And I would tell you,

at this age, six years of age, you're going to have to show more than tell. I like what Jade said.

I do think you have the object lesson, and I think you share a sound bite because that's all a six-year-old is going to pay attention to.

But I will tell you that as consistently as you can, a short little bumper sticker response when she says that, just go, you know what? You're going to learn one day we can't have everything we want.

Some little, whatever you want to say. Trust your instinct and say it, but it's not in a sit-down lecture because the six-year-old just can't process it.

What I mean by show, not tell is some of the things that Stacey did, we did this early on when the kids were about that age, six or seven. We started dialing back on Christmas.

We got some great advice from an older couple, and we started giving the kids just three gifts for Christmas as an example.

And we would do three equally great gifts. In other words, we got their list.
And instead of 10 things, we gave them three. So it was less than they wanted.
And that was an object lesson.

They were like, oh, but all three gifts were awesome. Yeah.

And then we told them that they had to take one of their three gifts and they had to choose a child at the children's hospital to give it to. And we took them to children's hospital in Atlanta.

And they had picked out one of their three amazing gifts. And they gave it to a kid who was very, very sick.
And that was... I love this.
That was

something that, again, no credit there. That was an older couple told us that.
And we did that for about three or four years.

And I will tell you that that taught our kids as much as anything that we ever told them. Tell us the first,

be 100% real. The first year you did that, how did they take it? What did they do? Well, they're young enough to where it's not a complete attitude thing.

Like, I wouldn't recommend you throw this on 11 and 12-year-olds. Sure, sure, sure.

Because at that point, it's like, I'm not saying the horse is out of the barn, but it's a lot of attitude you got to deal with. But with, you know, a kindergartner and a colour.

What are we doing? Like, they needed some clarification. You're telling me that I got to pick one of these three and we're going to give it.
And we were like, yeah, we're going to.

Did they think they were getting in trouble? Did they treat it as a consequence?

No, I think they got it conceptually until they went down to children's hospital and they walked the gift in and they personally hand it to a different kid. And I think they got it.

And I think we could have done that in a lower income area. It doesn't have to be a children's hospital, but the idea is show, not tell.

And you're trying, because your question, Angela, was how do we teach contentment? And the way I think you teach contentment is you show them how good they have it.

Not tell them how good they have it. Show them.
And so that's what,

you can take that in ID8 and do your own version of it. I'm going to do exactly that.
But here's what it did.

When they weren't thrilled. I'm sure they weren't.
I'm thinking about what my kids would do. I know Angela is thinking about what her daughter is going to do.
But they weren't thrilled.

But here's the thing.

understood it. It made it not just about them.
Yeah, it wasn't mom and dad are trying to ruin Christmas.

It was mom and dad are trying to show us that there are people in this world that are my age that look a lot like me

and they are in a worse situation than me. And I'm giving them out of my goodness, I'm giving them some of the goodness in my life.

I do think that plants a very important seed.

Wow. Yes, I agree.
That's so good. I'm thinking about it.
It's tough, by the way, as a parent. Let me also say, it's not easy to say that.
Oh my God.

Well, I'm putting myself in you guys's shoes right now. It's tough.
Because you want to know, I'll tell you, Angela, what I was thinking as Kim was saying that.

Next thing I'm thinking is, well, when you got back home, I'd want to have another gift sitting there waiting for you. No, but that's not.
It takes away from it. I know.

And keep in mind. My question about it was:

at our church, my daughter's really excited about the angel tree or the giving tree of adopting a family and buying things for them.

And we've explained like these are families that, you know, if it weren't for us, they wouldn't have anything for Christmas. And maybe they just need some clothes.

And she gets stupid, like she wants to go buy the whole store for them and give them the world. And so that

desire.

is there.

But I'm wondering if that's just a little less effective than what you just brought up. is.
Not something that was hers that she's getting. Well, here's what I would tell you.

Does she get an allowance of any type?

Nope, we don't do allowances. We do commissions for her.

Earning her money. Okay, Grace.

Yeah, Dave hates allowance. Okay, here's my point.
You're fine. I would take her commissions and say, you're going to adopt a family out of your money.
Like, get her money in the game.

I think it's just as powerful as a lesson as what I shared. That was just one idea.
The idea is for a model. I'm not seeing it, though, Ken.
Well, Well, that's my point.

If she takes her commission and she goes and buys the gifts and then hands it to the little girl and their family, the point is they need to see others that are not.

Listen, kids can pick up on, ooh, they don't have it as good as us. Yeah, they need to see it and feel it.

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Chloe is joining us now in Houston, Texas. Chloe, how can we help?

Hi, thank you for taking my call. Sure, what's going on today?

My mom recently recently passed and before this I was

thank you.

I was trying to just

on the journey of

I was on the journey of just working on my baby steps before this law.

So now I'm just trying to navigate. I have six younger siblings.
They're minors.

And

I'll be taking them home full time. So I'm just trying to figure out as far as like

her home goes.

We, you know, we did have some conversations before she passed, and she was wanting to get a bigger house to fit the kids.

And she does still have a mortgage. So I don't know if it would be smarter for me to keep the home and just keep paying on it or, you know, sell it and,

you know, of course, pay the mortgage company off. And

what is your living situation? Do you own a home or are you renting?

No, I'm renting, but I mean, my lease is up next month.

Okay.

Can you even

put all of the siblings in there with you? Is there enough room?

No, not in my apartment. No.
I will be letting this apartment go and

trying to figure out, you know, this with my mom's house.

What's the mortgage on your mom's house?

She owes $65

and it's like $1,200 a month. something.

Did you get the house?

Or is that still up in the air as to who gets the house now that she's no longer with us?

No, I would be getting a home. Okay.
What's your current rent? Yeah.

My current rent, I don't really have rent.

My partner, he works for

a company. Okay, so would.
Oh, so it's a company apartment that he's getting?

Right, right.

Okay, so

tell me about your income just you

um just me i'm making 58k um in salary but i'm also working two part-time jobs which i i probably won't be doing them for long now that this just happened okay um there i only make like 500 every week now let me make sure i understand you're working two part-time jobs in addition to the 58 000 job

yes well look at you what what are you doing that for what's what's all that hustle for?

She had been sick for a while, and I was kind of just helping with bills, but I also wanted to pay

some of my debt off. So I started this about two months ago.
Good for you. I'm so impressed with your hustle.
What kind of debt do you have?

Honestly, I don't have a lot of debt.

My car is like $21,000.

And then I do have a student loan for $10,000. And then collections, it's like $4,000, multiple things in that amount.
Okay. Like 4,000.
So the good news is,

let's say, okay, you just at your base job, you're making, you're bringing home 4,000 bucks a month, yes?

Yeah, just about, yeah. Okay.
And let it, if you did pick up a smaller, you let maybe you let two of the three side hustles go, right?

The good news is the mortgage is right at 25%, right where you want it to be. So that's not a terrible thing.

It's just getting accustomed to a life where you're paying rent or paying a mortgage, right?

Right. Then from there, there should still be a little bit,

you're going to have to adjust to what it's going to be like to support six siblings. Can you tell us the ages of the siblings?

Five, seven, thirteen, two 15-year-olds and a 16-year-old. Okay.
And is the five-year-old in kindergarten yet?

Yes. Okay.
So everybody's in school eight hours a day. That is.

Do you have aftercare? I mean, what, how will this affect your ability to do your job for the youngsters?

So I would

probably have to let the after, like my part-time jobs are usually like evening times through the night. So I'll have to let those go because they get out of school around like 4:30,

you know.

So you can, so this won't, the point is, is this taking care of the little ones that are, you know, obviously need supervision, you can keep your $58,000.

That's not going to affect affect that job at all. Just the two part-time jobs.
Oh, no. Right.
Okay, good.

So I love you getting rid of the two part-time jobs, at least in the short term, just to see what this new rhythm is going to be like. Bless your heart.

Chloe, you're amazing. You really are.
You're amazing. Wow.
I mean, I got to believe that. I mean, I got to believe you knew this was coming, right? You said she was sick for a while.

Had you thought about this day

and kind of started thinking about what that would mean for you? Or is this all hitting you suddenly

we definitely weren't expecting her to to pass like anytime soon we were hoping for her to recover um but i did think about if this did happen what that would look like

so

okay yeah

how long ago did she pass

um on the first so it's it's very recent oh chloe bless your heart you are just going through it right now

we're so so sorry. Yeah, that's so, so tough.
But you're, you are rising to the occasion in some very amazing ways right now.

Thank you. I mean, on behalf of all the siblings, I'm just saying thank you because somebody needed to step in, and the fact that you are is so incredible.

Let's talk about this house, though. That's the big question she called in with.
She can afford it. She can.

Where's your partner come in on this? You know,

He's fully on board. He's been in the family, and we went to high school together.
So he knows my family really well, and they love him. How old are you?

I am 30. Okay.
Okay. Just double check in.
All right, which way, Chloe, which way were you leaning before you called us as it relates to this house? What were you leaning towards doing?

I know this is all super fresh.

I honestly wanted to get a bigger house due to the fact that a lot of work needs to be put into the house. And I've thought about that every which way.
You know, AC needs to be replaced.

Foundation is messed up. Okay.

There's a lot of different things that need to be done in the home.

And I've just, whether than putting that money into it, I'd rather just sell it as is and

just move forward. You don't need a project in your life right now.

Knowing that, what do you think?

Well, now my question goes to money. Do you have any money saved?

Unfortunately, no, not anymore. I mean, I have like $1,000 saved.
All the rest of that, what I did have saved, I had to spend it on her funeral arrangement. So that has tanked me.
Here's my savings.

Here's, I'm going to tell you just some mathematics.

This is not emotional at all. I look at a $65,000 mortgage that likely has a really great interest rate on it.

And I think the like, I think to myself, I'd rather be on the hook for $65,000 and have to replace a roof and maybe do $10,000 of work on a foundation or even $20,000 of work on a foundation than getting into today's housing market where you're at now with the median home price being $424,000 where you're going to have to put 60% down, right?

That

is it livable.

Yeah, I agree with you. Is it livable though, Chloe?

I mean, in other words, all those things are true, but could you live in it for a season until you guys got out of this, learn what this new rhythm of life looks like, figure out what we can do to fix it?

Is it livable?

It's livable, but I would have to like for sure, like the plumbing part of it

and some other like buying. I'll tell you what.

My point is you can't get into another house today. That's my point.
No, but I wonder if she just rents. And we tell a lot of people renting is a good move in certain situations.

And I wonder if she gets this headache out of her life and doesn't have to worry about it on top of everything else, having to come in and mother these siblings.

If you can rent something that's no more than 25 to 30 percent of your take, you know, what you're taking home, I'm okay with that.

And selling this and taking the money, if there is, and holding that over for a later time, that's yeah.

I just think this is a tough reset, a whole new life for her. And I don't think having a money pit of a house is a good play.
That's true.

I'd rent for right now and you and your partner come up with a good plan going forward.

All right, let's go to Sadie in Colorado. Sadie, how can we help you today?

Hi, Ken and Jade. Thank you so much for taking my call.

I must admit, I'm a little bit starstruck. I enjoy listening to the Dave Ramsey Show.

Well, we are appreciative of you listening. And I know that you're starstruck because Jade is here.
And trust me, she's very down to earth. She's going to treat you very well.

So, yeah, you bet. What's going on?

Well, I so I'm in the midst of trying to, I guess, move to a transition to an employment that I really feel is a good connection for me with my abilities and gifts and everything.

I did read, I did take your assessment, Ken.

I'm still working on reading your book, but I did take your assessment. So I do have a better idea of my giftings and everything.
Do you have your results close by in case I want to ask about it?

I do. Okay, well, just hold.
I don't know that we need to get to it yet, but we might.

Okay. All right.

So

with that in mind,

I am subbing right now. I'm a day-to-day sub.
Sometimes I get long-term sub assignments. I make about, we'll say, $40,000 a year, an average of

$3,300 a month.

I enjoy subbing, but

I really love creating and I am...

I love writing like poems, songs.

I'm right now

partnering, maybe partnering with a publishing company to

do a story, like take

one of my poems and make it a story. And it's about a national park that I visited.

But the cost of that is $8,500.

And so, and I have had a couple of songs produced, which, you know, like it costs money for that too, but this one is kind of a big chunk of money to get this, my poems made into a book.

So I'm a little hesitant because I have 12,000 in savings it's 8500 to work with this publishing company and I

I make about right now without a long-term sub-assignment

just day-to-day setting I make we'll say about 2,000 a month are you single a month are you single income

I am single income yeah I I am single income I

I do live with my mom. I lived on my own for about seven years when my dad passed away.

Shortly after I ended up moving, you know, I moved in with my mom. She

can use the support and the help. And so

how old are you? I'm 44. Okay.
Do you have any debt? I don't.

Thanks to Dave Ramsey and

the 12K in savings. Does that represent your emergency fund?

That is accessible, so it's kind of

whatever I need it for, I can grab it. But I also have about, oh, go ahead.
I just want to make sure. Do you have an emergency fund? Is the emergency fund the $1,000?

So baby step one is the $1,000 before you pay the debt off. You said you don't have any debt, which means baby step three, you have three to six months saved.

So, does this represent three months of expenses? Six months? I could, yeah. Okay, well, it would have that in there because you're $2,000 a month is what you're making.
Yeah, exactly.

And what I can live off of. Okay.

All right. I have enough information.

Okay. I don't think you should spend $8,500

on anything

at this stage.

Given your income,

I'd like to see you have way more in savings because you have such a small income.

In other words, I would want you saving for other things, right? Like sinking funds.

And I won't get too far into that. I'll let Jade, and maybe she doesn't think it's too much.
Let me tell you why I think it's too much.

$8,500 is such a huge chunk of your savings. You just don't have it.
So that's my number one. So we don't want to ever put

the emergency fund into any kind of trouble. And we should never pull from the emergency fund unless it is, in fact, an emergency.
And you've got at least six grand in there.

We're saying it's three months. So

the other thing is, is both of us are publish authors. Okay.

And I know a lot of people in the publishing game. I know the independent publishing game.
I know just enough to get me in trouble, which means just enough to give you good advice on this. Okay, good.

I don't think you're at a stage of life where you need to be spending $8,500 to publish a book of your poems when you can go do it on Amazon for pennies on the dollar. And let's show our work.

There's a great book that I'm going to recommend you buy. And it's by a guy by the name of Austin Kleon, K-L-E-O-N, and it's called Show Your Work.

And it's about half an inch thick. You can read it in 30 minutes.
It's very illustrative. As a creative, you will love it.

But it is my homework assignment for you as to what you need to do before you ever think of spending this kind of money with a pseudo or hybrid publishing model let's let's get your work out

through self-publishing means that are max

hundreds of dollars at max and let's put our work out and see how they do and and let's let's show our work and see where we stand um instead of spending at this stage of your burgeoning writing career and where you are financially, I don't like this move because I think here's what's going to happen.

I think you're going to spend $8,500 and you're going to sell just as many copies as you would if you spent $8,500.

Okay.

Now, that sounds like I'm stepping on the dream. No, it doesn't.
Oh, okay. Thank you.
Because I feel that way. But I'm actually, I'm telling you from experience,

you would be better off doing research and going, all right,

what is the process for creating an e-book of my poems on Amazon and selling on Amazon? You got a link. Yeah, please do it that way.
You sell it through social media. Yes, let's just.

And then you don't have to sell a zillion copies before you break even on the 8,500 you spent. That's right, right? Okay.
So I agree with Ken.

You have 12,000 saved. Do you have any other money in retirement, anything?

I do have about 20,000 in retirement. Okay.

I want to take a stronger approach. Do I have permission? Sure.

I think that you need to take a long look in the mirror because when you started telling us, you were kind of making it seem like, hey, I'm living with my mom. She needed my help.

She went through this thing. And that may be true.
But without her, you couldn't be living right now. If you weren't living.

No, no, no, no, no, no. $2,000 a month, ma'am, you can't live on that.
And you can't do that subbing here and there. So you got to make this a full-time deal.
Now I'm all about chasing dreams.

You're talking to the creative herself. Like, I love what you said about the poems.
And I love that for you. I would never try to take that from you.
But in the meantime, you must work.

You must because you're 44 and you will look up and the time will come when you can no longer do the work you want to do because your body won't let you do it.

And you've got to have something there and you've got to create that foundation now. You've got time.

I'm not saying you don't have time, but if you don't start moving, that window to make this right gets smaller and smaller and smaller. And I don't want you to miss that window.

Okay, well, I didn't think I was going to be crying. I'm sorry.
I love you. I love you.
That's why I'm telling you.

Listen, we're not trying to discourage you. We're trying to encourage you.
Yes. Don't let the creative stuff die.
Yeah. But you got to test it.

If you had called me and said, I want to spend $8,500 to open up a food truck where I'm going to sell some type of food, I would have said the exact same thing. I'd have been like, like,

let's see if we can sell it in our neighborhood first. You know, we got to test, test, test.

What most people don't think about in this wonderful country called America where we can start anything at any time, we don't think about the testing part. We just think about the launching part.

That's right, Ken. And we've got to test.
We've got to test. So please be encouraged.
But listen. Jade's right, and I think she was the one person that could say it.

You know, what are your relationship dreams? You don't have to answer these questions, but what are your relationship dreams? And what are you doing to live your life the way that you want to live?

And you don't have to necessarily do this on your own.

And there is a time and a place to fully launch into something like poems or whatever. Keep writing.
Keep writing about what moves you and then show your work.

And I promise you, please get that book and do exactly what Austin tells you.

Super easy, functional way for you to test your stuff and see what other people say and see if the stuff that moves my heart, oh, some of the stuff that moves my heart moves other people's hearts.

Ding, ding, ding. Now we've got something.
And in the meantime, let's go get a really good job. Yes.

And let's stay with mom just long enough to really get on our feet and let's get out in the real world. You know? Yeah, my mom has a condition where I probably it'll be indefinite.

But that's okay. That's yeah.
You can stay and take care of her, but don't let that stop you from launching into making a full salary. You are are smart and capable and have so much to offer.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio alongside Jade Warshaw and Ken Coleman. Dustin is going to start us off here in New York.
Dustin, how can we help today?

Hi there. Thanks so much for taking my call.
You bet. What's going on?

Well, I have a question about housing and budgeting. So let me give you a little bit of context.
My wife and I are in our early 30s. We've been working in baby steps.

We've been married about two years, and at about the year and a half mark, we paid off, we finished paying off around $70,000 worth of debt. Way to go.

Oh, thank you.

And so we currently live in a one-bedroom co-op in the Hudson Valley, which costs us around $1,600 a month. So with that in our budget, we're able to save between $3,000 and $4,000 a month.

And we've been doing that since we got married.

And so

we're about to have we have a seven-month-old now, and in the coming May, we're going to have our second child. And so that's a lot of people to put in a one-bedroom apartment.

So to yeah, to get to a bigger place, it would be about twenty four hundred dollars a month at least in this area, just because it's the Hudson Valley.

And so, and our child care costs are likely to go up in the coming August

once paternity and maternity view leave is done. And so,

my question is:

do we stick it out here? Because our long-term plan is to move out of state in about two years once my mother-in-law retires. And so, we're saving up for a down payment.
But in the meantime,

that's my question.

Indiana, we want to go to Indianapolis.

In about two years?

In about two years. How much money have you got saved up?

So we currently have around $17,000 saved up.

We just finished paying off all of our debt, so we're like, we're just getting started on that saving process. But you're saving a lot per month, which is great.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And our living situation really helps with that.
And, you know, we got family nearby and all that. So the location is good.
It's just the square footage is not great. Yeah.

And so,

you know, do I sell our co-op in the meantime so that during that two-year waiting period, we can have a more expensive, a larger place?

Or do we just kind of stick it out in the one bedroom with four people?

I mean,

what I would do is I'd stick it out for as long as I possibly can because the more that you can save on your living is the more money that you can save for a potential down payment.

And I don't have to tell you

you need a lot of money saved for a down payment these days, right? So the more that you can get saved in the next two to two and a half years, that would be my number one goal.

Matter of fact, I'd run it back and say, okay,

based on Indianapolis home prices and based on what we want. Which I got you over here.
Whenever you're ready. Whenever you're ready.
Yeah.

We're going to plug that in and then we're going to run it back and say, okay, what must be true for us to move in? And then that's the, that, that is

the silver bullet of what we're saving for in the the next two, two and a half years. So, Kim,

I'm your assistant. I'm giving you some numbers.

My computer died, so I don't have it. Okay, I got you.
All right, you got it? That's what I'm here for. All right, so in Indianapolis.
An average price for a three-bedroom home.

I did three-bedroom because it's going to feel like a castle to him. Love it.

Oh, I love hearing the little one in the background. That's real.
We like that, folks.

$230,000 to $299,000. $230,000 up to approximately.
Okay. $230,000 to $299,000.

Some specifics. If you look at at Marion County, because I typed in greater Indianapolis area.

So I'm giving, so this is just what this is the homework you need to do, my friend. But you got Marion County, median price is $229.
Hendricks County, median price is $303,000.

Johnson County, median price is $298. So let's add a lot of surroundings.
So you either have to. So

$230,000 to $300,000. And then let's add a little inflation to that.
Let's say $240,000, right? That's what I would say, because this is two and a half years from now.

So you say 240 and then knowing that the what you're attempting to do is is put 25% down then you can go in and plug in estimated taxes and insurance and all of that and that number is what you need to be

well I got I got him at if you guys continue to save if I was listening correctly you were saving three to four thousand a month

you guys can have a shot at getting close to a hundred thousand just your savings not including any equity in the co-op right

Correct. Yeah.
So I what's your equity in the co-op?

We think based upon comps that I've run in the area that I can get around

50 after the sale.

And so that brings us pretty close to that 20% down payment with what we have saved. Great.
And we're targeting a house in Indianapolis

around the 300,000 mark.

Love that. Love that.
That's very doable. And I'm with Jade then.
Listen, the babies don't know.

This is going to be tough on you and mom. But you know what? Two little babies.
These are going to be memories that you two talk about when the kids are long gone. For sure.

And you're going to be like, we did it. And I think since we're not asking the kids to suffer,

you guys aren't really suffering, but it is a form of suffering. And

I'm with my partner on this one.

Listen, she and Sam, I brag about this. She and Sam had one car for how long? 10 years.
And how many years after you actually had the money to buy a car? Wow, long, let's see.

So you were done in 2018. I didn't buy a second car until we got here, which was 2022.
Which I don't recommend. I think she's bananas, but she's the real deal.
So I'm with Jade.

I 100% would suck it up. They're little ones.
It's going to be crazy anyway. Two years is going to fly when you got two babies.

I know, that's right. The days are long, but the years are short.
That's right. And I'm with Jade 100%.

I'd tough it out and and then make the triumphant entry into Indianapolis with a really, really nice down payment. And by the way, cost of living there, fantastic.

So, man, you're going to feel like from Hudson Valley to the greater Indianapolis area.

Oh, man.

What a change. Unless.

Looking forward to that. Oh, wait a second.
No, no, no, no, no. Hold on, Dustin.
She's got an idea. No, it's not an idea.

I was just about to throw some bait into the water. Go for it.
I was going to throw it. Go for it.
You said it's a really great great cost of living there. And I was going to say, unless everybody,

unless everybody in New York gets spooked and

starts going to places like Indiana and Florida,

Tennessee. Oh, yeah, so people raising their hands out there.
You know what I'm saying? Indiana is the new Tennessee.

Are y'all leaving upstate New York? I met you all earlier. Is that what you did? Yeah.
See? That's what I'm saying. Now, I'm not trying to spook you, but I'm just saying.

But they're the migration is real. They're more mature.
Can we say that? They're a little bit more mature in age. I'm just saying that

there are predictions being made. I'm just saying about another great migration.
Oh, well, we'll see. We'll see.
The times will tell. Now's the time, folks.
I thought I was setting you up.

That's why I said I was putting a line in the water. No, I'm not going to take it.
Well, I'll say this. I'll say this.

When people say they're going to leave this country based on some political change, number one, it's their right to say it. We saw a lot of celebs say it.
A few actually did it.

Instead, they just went to Indiana. They went to England.
Oh, I'm just kidding. The celebrities I'm thinking of.
Yeah. But, you know, listen, are people going to leave over stuff like that?

You better believe it. We saw massive migration from California.
We saw it here in middle Tennessee. Certainly a lot of people moving to Florida.
It's certainly going to happen.

But I don't think, and my brother-in-law and sister-in-law live in Indianapolis. So I apologize ahead of time.

Of all the places people are going to flee from New York, I don't think it's Indianapolis.

I'm not throwing shade at any of my friends. It's a nice area, sir.
It's a lovely area, but it's not on the top of anybody's list. Is that fair? Even he's acknowledging me.

He's like, well, you make a good point. Lovely place to live.
Is it a top destination? I don't think so.

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Okay, today's question comes from Bailey in Maryland.

They say, we currently have $7,500 in credit card debt and an $800,000 home loan. Now, the home is worth $1 million.

We have around $50,000 invested in single stocks to to give to our kids when they are adults and out on their own. The kids are now 10 years old and we are investing regularly for them.

On one hand, I feel like we should cash in these to put towards our debt.

However, I also know that time is such a huge factor in long-term investing and I won't make that much of an impact on such a large debt.

We currently make $175,000 per year combined. What should be our priority? Okay, so

the $7,500 in credit card debt, and it sounds like that's the only consumer debt that you have. Okay.
The rest of it, $800,000 on the home loan, that is not part of baby step two.

Baby step two is we pay off everything except the house. So on your salary of $175,000 per year, unless there is a typo on this, why don't you reach over?

yesterday and pay off the 7,500 in credit card debt.

Unless that's a typo, typo, I don't understand where the problem is. Now, we can talk about how I think your money is best invested.
That's kind of beside the point right now.

But no, you don't need to liquidate that stock to pay off this debt. You can cash flow that in two seconds is my point.

Now, if we keep going and we're talking about on down through the baby steps, do you need three to six months of expenses saved? Yes, you do.

Now we can talk about, is there any money at our disposal that we can start to do this? If I were you, I would still take

my

salary and I would cash flow three to six months. Now, this money that you invested for your kids, if it were me, I would pull it out of single stocks and I would drop it in a 529 plan.

That's what I would do because single stocks is not the best way to invest money anyway.

Now, if you said, well, Jade, if I just invested in the market, I have more investments open that I can use, blah, blah, blah.

If you wanted to park it in some sort of a brokerage, I suppose you could do that, but it's not the best tax advantage for you. That's why I I would do a 529.

That's what I would do with this 50,000 invested. I would then turn around, cash flow three to six months, and then you're, you're, you're off to the races.

And then baby step seven, baby step six is when you're going to pay off this home. Okay.
So that's kind of how this works

with the money that you have.

You're going to be putting extra payments toward this mortgage for a long time until it's done or, you know, paying a little here and a little there until it's done.

But it's not something that you have to do in baby step two. I just want to be clear about that.
Yeah, good advice. I can't add anything to that.

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And the best I could come away with, I said, guys,

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You know what? Let me run back what I said to Bailey and Maryland. You know, I'm thinking about it.
I would,

you know, the $50,000,

you have an $800,000 home. You need a three to six-month emergency fund today.
I probably would liquidate it and use that as my emergency fund and then restart with the 529s. All right.
Final answer.

Final answer, folks. She has spoken.
Kevin is up in California. Kevin, how can we help today?

Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

My question is: I am 21 in my final year of college with $50,000 and no debt, and I'm not really sure what to do, but I have a few options with my main one being real estate.

As my family has said, they'll go 50-50 in investment property if I figure out

the whole process in purchasing and going about the investment property. Did you say 50 or 60,000?

50.

50? Okay. And when do you finish school?

I finish in May. Okay.
And your degree is in

business. And what do we want to do? What are we looking for? What's that job we're looking for?

I'm going to be starting full-time in the fall as a business analyst. Congrats.
How much will we be making?

I want to say I'm very privileged and I'm very thankful, but around $120,000 to $130,000. Okay, great.
And you have zero debt?

Zero debt.

My family made a deal where if I go to community college for two years and then transfer to a four-year, they'll pay for money. Great.
Two years and more. Wow.
Okay.

I just wanted to get a quick snapshot for Jade and I on your total financial picture so that we can now address the question.

And if we can go back into the question, you've got the 50,000 in savings and you're going, what should I do with that? Is that what I'm understanding?

Yeah, right now the 50,000 is invested in the market, but I don't really trust myself in the market because,

yeah, I just don't really.

How is it invested in the market? Be specific. Is this in a mutual fund or is this in single stocks?

Sadly, I know it's terrible, but single stocks. Wow.
Okay. All right.
What's up the end of the world here? It's just not the strategy. All right.
Jade, jump in here. So what do you want to do?

Is this a home for yourself or is this some kind of rental? Like, what are you thinking?

I would want to be a rental.

Yeah, I want it to be a rental.

Can I ask why a rental and why not a place where you're just living?

Learning about what it means to own a home?

Yeah. So

because I'm...

going to be graduating, after I graduate, I'm planning on, and again, like I'm very thankful for this, but living with my family, with my parents, because my job i'm traveling like half a year and then the other half a year my parents are traveling themselves and so i didn't see the point of having my own home even though all my friends are going to be living and moving out so let me tell you what i would do knowing what you've said i would combine the best of both worlds i

this is and i'm going to ask more questions to make sure that you're in this position but if you're in the position to buy i would buy a home and i would make the home for me but i would also have roommates

and i would have roommates that live there so that while I'm traveling, I'm still bringing in income, but I also have this place that's my own that I'm building, I'm learning what it is to live in a home.

I've launched out of my parents' house. Do you see what I'm saying?

So you're getting the best of both worlds where you're feeling independent, but you're also still feeling like you're bringing in rental income. Does that make sense?

The only caveats to that are, number one,

you would need to be able to pay the rent on your own or pay the mortgage on your own, no problem, even if you didn't have roommates. That'd be number one.

And then, number two, you'd have to meet the normal criteria for what we would say is a proper home buying experience, which is the payment's no more than 25% of your take-home pay.

You're out of debt, which you said you are, and you've got three to six months of expenses sitting aside. Now, my screen says that you don't think you need an emergency fund.
Tell me more about that.

Yeah,

my parents are pretty

involved in my life, and if something were to take a turn for the worse, I think they'd be there for me. Why can't you be there for you, though?

Why wouldn't we set ourselves up for you to be there for you? Since you're

21.

Very true. Honestly, I just.

Yeah, you got a great point.

Can I ask a question? Because you've been very humble. You are.
And I think you're being very, very delicate here in in how you choose your words. So I'll ask, are your parents very wealthy?

I would say they're comfortable to their sense.

Okay, but they're not very, but it's not a trap question because I wonder if your parents are very, very wealthy and they're saying to you pretty actively, hey, listen, do this, do this, we got you here, then it makes sense to all of your responses.

And I love that Jade's going, that is a blessing and you've called it that, by the way.

But regardless of that blessing, you still need to establish your own life, knowing that mom and dad are very generous and can be.

So, don't want to put you on the spot with that, but that's what I'm sensing. And I think Jade's advice is actually really, really great.
Thanks, mom and dad. You're amazing,

but I want to find my own way, build my own way, and I want to do it in a way that's very responsible. And if they're going to match your 50% on the down payment, I think that's wonderful.
Fantastic.

Yes.

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All right, question for the audience here. Do you ever feel like you're doing everything right with your money, but you don't feel like you're getting anywhere? Well, you're not alone.

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Jade, I've been able to interview a lot of big-time authors, and I always love to ask them

if there's only one thing that readers can take away from this book, what no one tells you about money, what is it that you want them to take away? Oh, one thing. I know.

It's like asking you to choose between your kids.

But what's that if you go, okay, they read this book and Ken, here's what I want them to be able to take away, to be able to do?

I want them to be able to identify what it is that they're feeling.

at the core of things because a lot of times it's just running in the background and it's influencing us and we don't know um behavior i i explain it like this if behavior is the car

right we want we want to we want to get out of debt that's the behavior okay i'm in the car our beliefs are in the driver's seat i believe i can do it so i'm ready to operate the vehicle but our emotions can steer us off track emotions steer the wheel good they can make us hit a tree they make us go in a ditch they can make us turn around and go the opposite direction and if you don't feel that if you don't know it's happening and you don't even realize it right ken it's it's it's showing itself with uh you having arguments with your spouse just because they stopped off at the gas station to get a mountain dew on the way home why why are you getting so mad about that why is it every time you go to the grocery store um you're worried that it's going to overdraw the account so all of these things are operating in the back it's operating when everybody somebody brings up student loans and you just get mad as a snake right it's all back there and you need to be able to see what is it that causes me to be so passive aggressive whenever somebody tells me something that they're winning at with money right it's back there and you need to see what it is i help you identify it and then i help you fix it so you can actually get on track so i hope that you know that it comes from a very very real place that it's not just another expert telling you something to do it's someone who has stood in the mirror and cried and wondered what was wrong with their life and if they've ruined everything

i've done that and so i want you to know it's coming from a person who's been exactly where you are and that's why i can write about it and explain how to get out.

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So, this would be a great gift, by the way, for that person in your life that

is struggling with money and can't figure out what they need to do next. Tyler's up in Oklahoma.
Tyler, how can we help today?

Hey, thanks for taking my call. Yes.
What is going on?

Sorry, this is kind of surreal being on here. I've listened to you guys so much.
It's crazy.

So this is kind of a lot. I'll try to keep it brief.

So

I

am in

a tough situation right now. I was working away from home.

I was doing a truck driver job, and

I was making pretty good money.

I was trying to pay off some debt because I do have debt wrecked up and I'd been gone for a while and my wife was kind of like, you know, you got to get home and I wanted to be home.

And so I found something back home that wasn't as good pay, but I took it and then it kind of fell through. So long story short, I'm back home now with no job.
I was making pretty good money.

Now I have no income. My wife doesn't work.
And so we're in a really tough spot there. And so that's the first part.
And then the second part is kind of like, I hated the truck driving job anyway.

And I don't really know where to go from here. I've been struggling for a while.
I'm like kind of finding my path. I listened to you a lot.
I actually took your assessment,

but I just still can't quite figure out where I want to go. Do you have your assessment results near you? I actually do.
Yeah, I have them pulled up here. I can read them to you.

Yeah, let's let's this is we're gonna get to that, but I'm gonna go ahead and write it down. Uh, okay, top three talents.
What you do best? So I have logic, organization, and justice. Okay, hold on.

Logic, organization,

and justice. Okay, all right, top three passions.
Making, finishing, and analyzing. Making, finishing,

and analyzing. All right, and what's your missional result?

Creation. Oh, so you like to create things.
Okay. All right.
We're going to get back to that. Okay.

There's a lot. Like I said, there's a lot.
No, no, I know. Well,

we got to deal with the urgent, right? And then

we got to win the now, and then we worry about the next. Yeah.

You got to go back.

I've been applying for jobs and things like that.

I know I've got to find something. How long have you been out of work?

Just a week and a half. Okay, great.
I would go back to the truck

because

there's a huge need in that area, and I know your wife doesn't like it, but we got bigger problems than how much time you're at home right now. Just bread and butter.

And we just got to go where we know there's a need.

And I appreciate that you're applying for jobs this becomes your full-time job but while you're applying um you're driving around construction sites you're driving around anywhere where you've got a skill if you've got a trade skill in other words if you're good with a hammer or you're good with a shovel you have got to start working and i mean

today and if not today tomorrow if i was in your shoes i'd be going where i could get a check we need to get checks coming in and when we get checks coming in we take care of all of the basics and we can breathe, which means we're allowed to think a little bit.

And when thinking, we actually can think clearly with a thing like the assessment. So I just want to cover that.
I don't care what it is. What were you making driving the truck, by the way?

I didn't ask that. I was making a little over three grand a week after taxes.
My man,

that's a good chunk of change. It sure is.
It was good money. It was good money, but you know, I've got three kids here at home, and I was gone for five months, and it was just okay.

But you can't sit at home and not work. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Who, who? I know, I know.

Are they better off with you on the road making 12 grand a month, or are they better off you at home with no money coming in? No, I totally understand.

I just, it was really hard being away from them, and things were kind of starting. My wife was struggling here.
Okay.

You know, I get that. Let me meet you there.
Let me meet you there. But if you drove a, would you drive an 18-wheeler?

Yeah.

Okay. You're qualified to drive a lot lot of large equipment beyond just a truck, is my guess.
True or false?

Yes, yeah. Dude, where's the need in your area? This is not resumes.
This is you driving up on sites.

I know for a fact, because I pay attention to this stuff every day, that the trucking industry, and I understand there's the long haul, but there's also regional and then there's local stuff.

And they need somebody they can depend on. And buddy, you got a great resume.
And you got a good story, by the way. You could say, hey, I was driving 18 wheelers

over the long road, but I left because I got three little ones at home. And now I need to drive something big and that puts out diesel fuel and stinks because I'm good at it and I can get paid for it.

And I can take care of my family. You're not applying for jobs just.
You are showing up on sites and a guy hops out of the truck. If you got to go to a daggum

truck stop and go, hey, I noticed you're driving a Coca-Cola truck or a Pepsi truck or a beer truck. Are they hiring right now? That's how we apply.

And you go get behind the wheel of something that gets you home every night. But I think that's your best bet.
Now, on the assessment, here are the three questions you got to answer.

Who are the people I want to help?

What problem or desire do they have? What solution to that problem or desire fires me up? Now answer those three questions while looking at those assessment results and watch the ideas flow.

And then please read the book, hang on the line. We're going to get you find the work you're wired to do.
I'll coach you all the way.

All right, welcome back. I may have my sheet, James.
I don't have my.

I think I have it, Ken. You have it? The scripture and quote of the day.
I got you right here, comrade. Oh, James, I was so nervous, man.
I was looking in my stash here.

I was trying to make you sweat.

Hey, it worked. I was like, James, I'm going to need you to read the scripture of the day for us.
But hey, fear not, folks. Proverbs 12, 15 is our scripture of the day.

The way of a fool is right in his own eyes, but a wise man listens to advice. And our quote of the day from Milton Friedman, one of the great economists of all time.

The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.

What a word.

I'm just going to read that again because Milton Friedman, a lot of people don't know who he is. You need to look him up.

The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing. Chew on that for several hours, folks, and it'll eventually hit you.

I get it immediately, and I think that's brilliant. It is brilliant.
Jason is up in Pennsylvania. Jason, how can we help?

Hey, thanks for taking my call. You bet.
So my question is revolving around 529 plans.

So when I had kids, I wanted to make sure they didn't start their adult life off with debt like I did and like so many other people do.

So I opened 529 plans for each of the the kids the year they were born.

Fast forward 18 years, and I was very proud to invested enough money in the 529 plans to fully fund both of my kids' college educations.

As luck would have it, my eldest child, my son, then earned a college scholarship covering his full tuition.

He's going to graduate in a couple of years with no debt and somewhere north of $150,000 in an account for him.

So that is kind of where my issue comes in. I got to thinking and my wife and I got to talking about how do we hand this money off to him and when.

You know, those first handful of years out of college for me, you know, were a struggle, but I think that really taught me a lot of good lessons with debt and with money and being financially responsible.

So I don't want to rob him of that.

So just looking for a little bit of advice on, you know, how and when and to pass this money to him.

Are you thinking in terms of how you pass the money, are you thinking of liquidating it and giving him the cash?

Are you thinking of just giving it to him as a 529 and suggesting that he change the beneficiary to his future kid? Like, what are your thoughts on that part of it?

Yeah, what I've started in Pennsylvania, if you get a college scholarship, you're able to take that amount out per year, which I've started to do, and I'm moving that into a brokerage account, investing in index funds.

So I'm going to give him the brokerage account at some point.

We just don't know when. So that will be just a brokerage account opened in his name that he's going to.
I love that you made that transition.

Ken, I want you to add to this because your kids are older than mine.

I think so much of this depends on what type of kid this is. It depends on

how they've managed their money. It depends on what their track record has been.

Because I'll tell you straight up, you know, in my mind, if I have a son who has been so responsible and so smart and done so well with his time and his money and all these things and responsible.

Yeah, when the time comes for him to buy a house, I'd love to help with that process, whether it's help 50-50 on the down payment and this is the money that's going to do that.

I don't have any problem with that sort of thing as long as it's not enabling in any way. Does that make sense? Yeah, I love your advice.
I think,

listen, all of us who have multiple kids, you know,

they're all different and they tend to handle money very differently. I'm thinking of my three kids as you were talking and I'm laughing, you know, just the differences between my three.

Yeah, you know them. I do.
And they're all, I have one, like,

you know, they don't listen to the show, so I could say it. Yeah.
My boy Chase, let me tell you something. Don't say the name.

They will never see this or listen to this in a million years. You give it to him at 21, and it ain't going anywhere.
He's going to keep it. He's going to invest in it.

It's going to turn a lot of money. Yeah.
You know, I'm not going to disparage the other because, but I'm just saying, he's the one where I go automatically. It's a younger age for him.
Uh-huh.

The other two, I want to see some things. I want to, and I, you know, they're all great.

I love that advice. I thought you, I thought it was good.

I was stepping into your advice in my situation.

But I have a little bit of a curveball that goes outside of the three and their personalities

because I've toyed with this. So I haven't done this.
So

don't come at me. I'm not.
I'm listening.

I wonder if, and I love what Jason said. And Jason, I agree with you.
I remember coming out of college having nothing. I mean, nothing.
Paid my student loans off. That's all I had.

I didn't have a car payment. And I just drove a piece of crap forever.
I mean, the car I picked Stacy up on in our first date, it's embarrassing. Yeah.

So I do like that they need to figure it out. I love that part.
And there's part of me that goes, I wouldn't mind

just putting it away in a true retirement account.

And it's for their retirement. And

just let it sit there and then over time go, hey, by the way, this is something mom and I wanted to bless you with. And because I don't want them to have the brokerage.

I'd want them to have, I'd want them to have the retirement account is where I would. I see where you're going with that.
Here's my only, I actually, I should say it's where I'm leaning on this one.

I'm not saying I'm solid on that. Here's why I like the real estate thing.
And I'm not saying right away. Like, I'm not saying when they're, you know, I'm 23 when they come out.

I'm what I like about the real estate is they're, they're, they're giving a leg up of building wealth earlier, but it's not so, it's not, uh, I can just access this money and spend it and, you know, it fall away.

It's, it's going into a home forced savings account, it's building equity, something that's taking people now decades to save for to be able to have that help is such a a big deal.

I almost think it could make a bigger impact than having the retirement later because it's going to influence their day-to-day life and what they're able to do. And that's my only

one is good. The only reason I thought the real long term is it's like I want them to make their own decisions on that.
Yeah. And I don't know what they're going to do from a home film.

But then at 50 to be like, hey, this is here. It's like, oh, like, hey, guys, that's different.

I've told you and I've been telling you to do your own thing, but we went ahead and, and so you've got a nice now.

Because I think I could, I mean, I want to buy them all a house.

All right. I do.
These are things I want to do.

But I think, man, if I could put that money and let it sit and grow and it's something that goes, hey, you're going to be okay. Yeah.
Everybody would love to get that.

They can't touch it.

What would be the age? Not when you die. No, no, no.
For them, would it have to be 60? Yeah, I'm setting it up as a retirement account. Oh.

That's long term. I get it.
I'm not saying, by the way, that that's what I'm going to do. I'm saying

I went into Jason's call and I went with him and I went, what would I do? What could I do? What's the longest term thing that it's a blessing, but there's no temptation?

I think I'd say whichever happens first. You're either 25 and you're ready to buy your first house or you're 27, ready, or when you, upon marriage, like when you get married.
Okay.

I think I would do that. I'd like to both have those too.
I like that.

I'm not sure. And it wouldn't be cash.
It would be

down payment on a home. I just think so few people think long-term.

And I like the long-term gift.

I mean, there is a nice growth on that. That's different.
I'm just kicking it around. I don't, like I said, that is not an in-stone statement for me.
Yeah, I get it. Me neither.
There you go, Jason.

And here's the deal. You're such a good dad.
Can we just come back to you and go, we gave you some ideas and thoughts, but man, how awesome does it feel for you to be in that position?

I'd like to kick that out to the comments, see what they would say. There you go.
Oh, they'll comment. Jason, what do you think? We'll give you the last word.

Yeah, you know, I thought about some of that too, as far as, you know, with that 529 plan in Pennsylvania, we can roll, I think it's up to 35,000 into a Roth. That's right.

I may do that and then put some of it in a Roth and then put the rest in the brokerage. That's what I'm thinking.

I love the mix. That's very good, too.
You know, so I don't know. I don't know.
I just look at all these young people. They're not thinking long term, you know? So, Jason, you're a good man.
Thanks.

Thanks for the call. You know, it's best to both worlds.
It really is.

And again, love that where people can see why that 529 is such a good play because look at that. He's able to do something with that.
You're not stuck. People think, oh, what if they don't?

No, you're not stuck. You're not stuck.
It's such a good, good investment. I absolutely love that.
All right.

Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.