Focused Intensity Is The Only Way To Make Financial Progress

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Speaker 2 Normal is broke, and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life.
From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 2 I'm George Campbell, joined by my pal Dr. John Deloney, and we're taking your calls at 8-825-5225.

Speaker 2 You jump in, we'll talk about your money and your life. Cassandra kicks us off in Toronto.
What's going on, Cassandra?

Speaker 3 Hello, gentlemen. How are you today?

Speaker 2 We are doing great. What ails you today? How can we help?

Speaker 3 Nothing ails me.

Speaker 3 I am a domestic abuse survivor.

Speaker 3 And it was

Speaker 3 majority was financial abuse.

Speaker 3 So, how long ago was this?

Speaker 3 Six years.

Speaker 3 Wow.

Speaker 3 Yeah, it was the scariest, best thing I ever did for me and my three children.

Speaker 4 To get out of to leave, get out of that mess.

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah, I know it was, um, yeah, thank you. You know, I started with nothing and I've built everything.

Speaker 3 And now

Speaker 3 I it's kind of crazy to call in about this. I'm making about $8,000 a month.
Congratulations. And thank you.
Honestly, I work full-time. I go to school full-time and I'm a single mom.

Speaker 3 So you just keep going, you know?

Speaker 4 You're at a place.

Speaker 4 If you haven't already, take a moment and just go outside and

Speaker 4 just

Speaker 4 be proud of yourself. Because you couldn't have imagined this six years ago when you were scared to death and you were taking a leap into nothingness, right? And so,

Speaker 4 man,

Speaker 4 you're a lighthouse for other women trapped in similar situations.

Speaker 3 So congratulations.

Speaker 3 Thank you very much. So my challenge right now is I want to give my kids the world.
I've been

Speaker 3 about two years ago, I realized that I wanted to change family patterns. You know, both of my parents are in their 60s and they don't have anything.
And there's so much debt.

Speaker 3 And so in the last two years, I paid off about $40,000 worth of debt. Very cool.

Speaker 2 Awesome.

Speaker 3 Thank you. And

Speaker 3 I'm trying now. The last thing is my car.
I owe about 17. It's worth about 20.

Speaker 3 So I'm trying to maintain a budget and stay on budget, but I want to give my kids everything, right? Everything we didn't have, everything, you know, everything I'm fighting for. You have.

Speaker 4 You have. Yeah.

Speaker 3 No, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 3 You have.

Speaker 4 You've given them everything. And everything is not a bunch of presents under the tree.

Speaker 4 Everything is a mom who is well.

Speaker 4 Everything is a mom who is like doing the next right thing for the stability and safety of herself and for her family. You've given them everything.

Speaker 4 You just have to be able to look in the mirror and say, I'm enough.

Speaker 4 Right? I know.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 It's hard. There's so much emotion about money.

Speaker 3 And I just can't. And then it doesn't matter how hard I'm fighting.
It just feels like it's never enough. The economy is so hard.
Stop fighting. Stop fighting.

Speaker 4 Stop fighting. Stop fighting.
Stop fighting. You have a picture of they're going to be happier when you have a bunch of stuff under that tree, right?

Speaker 4 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 4 And that stuff under the tree for you as a little girl was a proxy for a house that wasn't so full of chaos and so full of angst around money, around whatever.

Speaker 4 And you thought, if I could have those things under the tree, if I could have that toy I don't have, that shirt that I can't afford, or my parents can't afford or won't buy me, that then I'll be okay.

Speaker 4 Those presents are a proxy for,

Speaker 4 we have a house full of peace, which is something that every child is so, so desperate for. And you've given it to them.

Speaker 4 They have it. They have everything.
They've got a regulated mom. They don't have their dad in their life, right? Because he walked away.

Speaker 4 But when it comes to the ability to breathe in their own home, you've given them that.

Speaker 4 I'm so proud of you.

Speaker 4 I would hug you if you're here.

Speaker 2 What do you actually want to give them? Because everything is a big, vague word. The economy is a big, vague word.
You're using impossible terms.

Speaker 2 So what's the budget you want to use for Christmas to buy some gifts?

Speaker 2 Like

Speaker 3 last year, it was ridiculous I think it was like $500 a kid and then this year you know I'm just really I really want to make change and make waves and that involves sacrifice and so I've cut it down to like $250 but it just seems like how old are the kids

Speaker 4 um 15 10 and 9 all right so I want to tell you something I grew up with not a lot Okay, in fact, somebody one time a family broke into our several families broke into our house and put presents under our tree.

Speaker 4 Okay, that's the house I grew up in.

Speaker 4 When I joined this team and my financial life transformed,

Speaker 4 I did the, I went, I'm ahead of you a little bit, okay? I went crazy when it came to Christmas.

Speaker 4 And it was my wife saying, like, hey, we got to stop. Right.
And so

Speaker 4 two years ago, I took my son out. He's 15 now.
So he was 13 at the time. And I took him out and said, hey, I have gotten out of control of Christmas.
Christmas is going to look different this year.

Speaker 4 You're going to get two or three really nice things that, and I want you to give me a list, right? And I'll do what I can on the little knickknacky things, but it's going to look different.

Speaker 4 And you know what? My 13-year-old said to me over breakfast at a waffle house in rural Tennessee. You know what he said to me? He smiled and said, That's awesome, dad.
I don't think you can.

Speaker 4 And he already knew, oh, that's buying a bunch of stuff for him, not for us. He already knew.

Speaker 4 He's a teenager. He was an eighth grader.
And he already could sense all these presents are for old men, not for us. No, he's going to take my stuff.
He's going to take all the cool stuff that's cool.

Speaker 4 But you taking your 15-year-old out, I mean, you're all three of them out and saying, I've been scratching a claw and I have this fantasy in my head.

Speaker 4 that y'all will only like me if there's tons of presents. I've got to be a better steward of this money this year.
And so I want y'all to give me one or two things that y'all really, really want.

Speaker 4 And I'm going to try to make that happen.

Speaker 4 But Christmas is going to look different this year. And I'm almost going to guarantee you that they'll be like, mom, we're good.
We're good, mom.

Speaker 4 And if they don't, if they're like, that's ridiculous. Well, they're 13.
Good grief. They're supposed to stay stuff like that.

Speaker 4 You get what I'm saying?

Speaker 2 And they have no concept of what things cost. And so that's another piece of the puzzle.
For better and for worse. They go, well, I want a PS5 and I want, you know, a $10 pair of shoes.

Speaker 2 They're like, okay, well, those aren't two things that go together. And so I would set a budget and that becomes how much we can spend on Christmas.
And so it doesn't matter what they want.

Speaker 2 It's what you can actually afford that dictates what happens this Christmas. And the other thing I would encourage you to do is focus on something experiential versus something material.

Speaker 2 I saw a great video and the mom asked her daughter, hey, what did you get for Christmas last year? The daughter blanked. She couldn't think of one thing.

Speaker 2 And she said, where did we go on vacation last year? He said, like, Tahoe. Immediately.
And so you've got to think in terms of what are they going to remember?

Speaker 2 It's probably not a thing that's going to end up in a closet or at Goodwill six months from now or two years from now.

Speaker 2 And so be thoughtful, be creative, but don't think it has to be a certain dollar amount for it to matter.

Speaker 4 And you free yourself when you take your kids out and you have this conversation with them. You're free because you're, right now there's a cloud, there's a secret that you think they will only

Speaker 4 feel good.

Speaker 4 If you do X, Y, and Z. Take them out and just paint them a picture.
This year I'm going to be different.

Speaker 4 And give them that opportunity. But

Speaker 4 in that conversation, you're going to free yourself.

Speaker 4 And like George said,

Speaker 4 most kids

Speaker 4 have this. Yeah, we're running up on a clock.
So go have that hard conversation. Have it direct and free yourself.

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Speaker 2 Bree is in Phoenix up next. Bree, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 5 Hi, thank you for taking my call.

Speaker 2 Absolutely. What's going on?

Speaker 5 You know, I guess I'm looking to find out if I made a dumb house decision or if I'm house poor.

Speaker 5 I am newer to the Ramsey Show and doing a budget. And I feel like I don't have enough money to do what I want, of course, but I,

Speaker 5 you know, it seems like there's just not enough money at the end of the month.

Speaker 2 That's a real problem. What do you make?

Speaker 5 I make yearly. I make good money, I think.

Speaker 3 I make $120.

Speaker 3 Yeah, that's good money where I come from. Yeah.
Okay.

Speaker 2 And what's your take-home pay every month?

Speaker 5 Yeah, take-home is not as good, obviously. I put 401k money and stuff, but my benefits, but I take home, my base salary is $5,400 a month that I bring home.

Speaker 8 Okay.

Speaker 5 And my commissions range so much,

Speaker 5 that's the hard thing. I'm having a hard time doing the budget, you you know, to the budget, but it could be anywhere from a thousand, like this month I got $1,000, last month I got $3,900.

Speaker 5 For six or five months I didn't get any at all.

Speaker 2 Let's pretend that's gravy on top.

Speaker 3 So what is your mortgage rate? What do I want to do?

Speaker 5 $2,000 a month.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 2 That's not out of control. I mean, it's a big portion of your base take home, but we're not going to factor in your 401k contributions into that.

Speaker 2 And so if you just look at your after-tax income, but before other deductions like healthcare, 401k, the parameter we use is 25%.

Speaker 2 And so I don't think it's just the mortgage alone doing this. I think there's some other factors here, including other debt.
Do you have any other consumer debt? Yes.

Speaker 5 Yes.

Speaker 5 I have, well, sorry, I have $300 as an HRA a month, which is a lot, I think.

Speaker 5 I have a car loan that's $500.

Speaker 5 I have about $40,000 dollars in consumer debt like credit cards and a like a loan that I consolidated okay forty thousand

Speaker 2 so let's let's picture this world for Bree let's say that you got rid of all of the consumer debt the car loan the credit cards all of that the consolidation loan do you think you could breathe easier cover all your bills and have some left over

Speaker 5 You even saying that makes me feel better.

Speaker 3 Good.

Speaker 2 That's a world that's very much available to you. It's at your fingertips here if you just utilize this great income you have and start focusing on one thing instead of seven good things.
Because

Speaker 2 investing for retirement is a great thing. Paying off debt is a great thing.
Owning a home is a great thing. You've chosen to do it all at once, which is why you feel overwhelmed.

Speaker 2 So let's just picture you pausing your 401k contributions. What percentage of your income are you currently contributing?

Speaker 8 I think I lowered it to six.

Speaker 5 It was 10.

Speaker 2 Okay. Well, that's $7,200 a year that could be going towards paying down that debt.

Speaker 2 You see what I just did there?

Speaker 5 Yep, yes.

Speaker 2 We just created some margin for Bree.

Speaker 2 And remember, this is temporary. How old are you?

Speaker 8 I'm almost 60.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 2 So can we picture Bree on her 62nd birthday, completely debt-free, now maxing out retirement instead of having to ratchet it down?

Speaker 5 Yeah, I could picture that.

Speaker 2 That's the future I'm seeing as well. And so what this looks like is taking down your 401k, cutting your spending to the bone for 18 months max is what I'm thinking.

Speaker 2 Probably less because you have a great income, especially with those bonuses.

Speaker 2 If you pretend those bonuses don't exist and anytime it comes in, you throw it right at the debt, the smallest debt in front of you, you're going to be debt-free really quickly. Agreed?

Speaker 3 Wow.

Speaker 5 Well, it sounds good coming from you.

Speaker 3 I'm a good salesman, I guess.

Speaker 2 It's your life. I'm just pointing.
I have all the puzzle pieces in front of me and I'm going, hey, if you just move this over here, you could be debt-free pretty fast.

Speaker 2 And that's the debt snowball method. That's going, hey, we're not going to contribute to retirement.
We're going to take our savings down to a thousand bucks.

Speaker 2 We're going to throw everything we can at our smallest debt once it's knocked out, throw everything we can at the next smallest debt while making minimums on the rest of the debts.

Speaker 2 And if you do it that way, I'm telling you, you will be debt-free in 12 to 18 months, making what you make. Oh, my God.

Speaker 5 Wow, I never even thought I'd get through on the call.

Speaker 3 I'm so excited to talk to you. And that you did, you just made me feel better because, yeah, and now I feel stupid because I don't know what to do.
No, no, we've all done stupid.

Speaker 2 Stupid people don't get paid $120,000 break.

Speaker 6 I know. I'm so proud of that.
I've already shit up to that.

Speaker 2 And I think you work too hard to feel this broke, to feel this overwhelmed.

Speaker 3 I do, Joe. Okay.
I do too.

Speaker 4 But listen, I want you to wait to hear what George said. We don't care about the interest rates.

Speaker 4 We don't care about

Speaker 4 the shame you feel on one thing versus the other. We're going to take every debt you have.
And in fact, I don't want you to do it on a computer. I want you to go old school and put on a yellow pad

Speaker 4 write down everybody you owe in the world parents friends banks car notes the the consolidation loan all of them write it down and in smallest to largest

Speaker 5 and then we're just going to attack it this is in your case this is 95 psychology oh my gosh so i did get it that way with those 40 the credit card or whatever it is it's it's all together that's one bill and then the car is another So would I, when I get these bonuses, bang which one out?

Speaker 5 The one that

Speaker 3 whatever one is lowest.

Speaker 2 Whatever the smallest balance is. It's the only number you're looking at.

Speaker 4 It's the only one you care about.

Speaker 4 Wow. And we're going to, and here's what you're going to get.
You're going to get a whole bunch of little wins.

Speaker 4 And if you have one big giant chunk at the end, like you have the big $40,000 like cloud hanging over your head, here's what we're going to celebrate.

Speaker 4 Every time you get that first number from 40 and you get it to 39,999, that's a huge win. And then we're just going to try to get a two in front, $29,999.

Speaker 4 And we're going to whittle that sucker down. The only question you need to ask yourself is this.
You're going to be 62.

Speaker 3 Okay. Do you want to be 62? No, I'm sure.

Speaker 4 And oh, and listen, yeah, that's fair.

Speaker 4 And owe nobody anything, or do you want to be 62, a little more fried than you are right now? That's the choice.

Speaker 5 No, I want to be free. And yeah, I work hard for my money and I want to celebrate myself.

Speaker 3 Never mind. You know what I mean?

Speaker 3 Celebrate yourself,

Speaker 4 not with another shiny thing you can't afford. Celebrate yourself with peace and freedom, which I think are the two most elusive things in American households today.

Speaker 6 Thank you guys.

Speaker 5 I appreciate it. I really do.

Speaker 3 Okay, hang on. We're going to hook you up.
We're going to hook you up. And I feel.

Speaker 4 We're going to take care of you. Here's what we're going to send you.
Number one, we're going to send you the digital FPU product. I want you to watch all nine videos at your house.

Speaker 4 And if you got kids still living with you, they have to watch it as a part of their rent, okay?

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah. We're going to send you.
Thank you. That's awesome.

Speaker 4 Oh, we're not done. I'm sending you more.
You ready?

Speaker 3 I'm going to give you.

Speaker 4 George and I are going to give you a year of every dollar premium. It's a budgeting app,

Speaker 4 and it's going to connect with your banks.

Speaker 4 So you already have it?

Speaker 5 We have the regular one, but no, not that one.

Speaker 3 We're upgrading you, okay?

Speaker 4 And we're going to pay for it.

Speaker 3 Thank you.

Speaker 4 But you've got to promise that you will cut your spending down to where people are going to think you're slowly losing your marbles okay

Speaker 5 i i love it and i love a challenge

Speaker 4 i love it i really do and and my youngest son is he started it too and he's doing so good he's doing better than me and i'm embarrassed he's 21 he's 20 22 actually wow i'm so proud of him for doing it yes so proud of him let him see his mom do something like radically hard for the next 18 months and that he will never my mom went back and took her first community college class at the age of 42 and she graduated her PhD at 57.

Speaker 4 You know what that did for me? It took away every excuse I could ever have in my life ever for I'm too old. I can't change.
I'm set in my way.

Speaker 4 She took it all off the table and that's what you'll do for your son. You will show him in real time.
There is never the words I can't.

Speaker 4 That cannot be a part of his vocabulary because I watched my mom do it.

Speaker 5 And that's all I care about is making my kids proud.

Speaker 3 I know they are proud of me. This is changing your family tree right here in real time.

Speaker 2 Well, you got a built-in accountability partner now. So he's watching.
You're watching what he's doing. He's watching what you're doing.
And that's the best thing.

Speaker 3 Will you make me one more promise?

Speaker 3 Yes, I will.

Speaker 4 That when you pay off these debts and you're debt-free, you'll call back in and we'll celebrate you. We'll do a debt-free scream.

Speaker 4 Bet you, you bet.

Speaker 5 I will go right there so I can get in the booth.

Speaker 3 I love it.

Speaker 4 All right, hang on the line. Christian's on the line.
He's going to hook you up with this stuff.

Speaker 2 I'm marking my calendar, Bri. 18 months from now, I'm going to be like, hey, Bri, you debt free yet? Where you at, Bri? We got any more payments?

Speaker 2 And I think the answer is going to be, I've been debt-free, dude. I've been done with this stuff.
I got the emergency fund. I'm maxing out retirement.
That's the future we want for Bri.

Speaker 2 And I think you're going to get there. Proud of you for calling in.
Love to see that kind of transformation. And in five minutes, your whole attitude just changed.

Speaker 2 So imagine what the five months are going to look like as you actually implement this stuff. You're going to be like a live wire, just so much energy on the path to debt freedom.

Speaker 2 Thanks for calling in.

Speaker 1 I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable.

Speaker 7 Yeah, and what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible, are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance.

Speaker 7 We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance. And I'm like, I can't even imagine.
Or even if it was opposite, right?

Speaker 7 If a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out how am I going to afford childcare?

Speaker 7 How do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing?

Speaker 7 And it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level. Like when you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills

Speaker 3 next week.

Speaker 7 Yeah, in the middle of all that grief. Like it's just, it is, it's terrible.

Speaker 7 And so life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive.

Speaker 7 Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And we keep re-upping it because I'm like, I just want it there.

Speaker 7 Like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if something suddenly happens.

Speaker 1 And it doesn't cost much because Xander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much.
You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here.

Speaker 1 You got to say it out loud and you got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza.

Speaker 7 There really is. So that is one thing to do to say I love you to your family.

Speaker 1 So we've used Xander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance. To get a free quote, go to 800-356-4282.

Speaker 1 That's That's 800-356-4282 or go to zander.com.

Speaker 2 Nick is in Charlotte, North Carolina, up next. What's going on, Nick? How can we help today?

Speaker 9 Hey, good afternoon. Thanks for having me on.

Speaker 2 Absolutely.

Speaker 9 Hey, so

Speaker 9 there's a lot of backstory, but married 13 years, have three children, seven, four, and one.

Speaker 9 My wife and I, we've been through a lot with medical ordeals.

Speaker 8 It's led to

Speaker 9 I took on finances and

Speaker 9 ended up kind of drowning a bit. I did not disclose to her that we were in financial trouble and thought I could work my way out of of it.

Speaker 9 I'm in sales. My net monthly income

Speaker 9 is roughly $7,500.

Speaker 9 We are currently in about $100,000 of debt, consumer debt, that consists of two personal loans, two auto loans, and a student loan.

Speaker 9 I've been hemorrhaging somewhere between $5,000 to $7,000 a month because I've not been able to have an honest conversation with my wife to disclose what's going on.

Speaker 9 So we haven't changed our spending patterns. On Friday of last week,

Speaker 9 God broke me, and I

Speaker 9 surrendered it to him. I disclosed everything to her and

Speaker 9 finally was open and honest. She was incredibly gracious.
But now, as we are trying to restore, rebuild,

Speaker 9 and rejuvenate our relationship,

Speaker 9 which has been an incredible couple of days, we do find ourselves in a crisis.

Speaker 9 We met with a Christian Christian financial advisor last night who recommended a home equity line of credit to swap the $100,000 in consumer debt to the home equity line of credit.

Speaker 9 We owe $330,000 on our house.

Speaker 8 It's worth about $530,000.

Speaker 9 So to keep that 80%, that would get us to roughly the $100,000 to pay off the consumer. And then we are flipping our spending.
upside down. We believe in the baby step approach.

Speaker 9 We're going to be pursuing that aggressively, but we wanted to know our options. Is the only option to do this HELOC, potentially sell our house when the market is better in the summer, spring,

Speaker 9 and have that paid off and be debt-free and rent a home? Do we need to put the house for sale immediately and take that route?

Speaker 9 Or are there other strategies that you all would implement and recommend given the context of what I just outlined?

Speaker 4 All right, so George is going to walk you through the money side of this, and he's going to give you a super clear path, okay? But I want you to hear me

Speaker 4 crystal clear also, okay?

Speaker 4 The chief emergency in your life is not the debt.

Speaker 4 Yes. The chief emergency in your life is

Speaker 4 what I would call financial infidelity. You cheated on your wife.
Okay.

Speaker 4 And so the chief emergency

Speaker 4 in your life right now is restoring trust.

Speaker 4 It's not, and here, I'm going to parse it, it's not trying to make everything all okay and take away any more pain, frustration, fear in her right away.

Speaker 4 It is restoring trust. Absolutely.
And when men of character, like me, like you, find ourselves, we have become somebody we never meant to be. I've been down this road in my marriage too, okay?

Speaker 4 The temptation is to run around and spend a whole bunch of energy trying to make everybody feel okay right now. And that gets us right back into yet another problem or two problems.

Speaker 4 Usually make it worse.

Speaker 4 And so the path you need to take now is, yes, you'll have to deal with this debt emergency. It's a big, big deal.

Speaker 4 But more importantly, is you have to bring your wife as a part of this brokenness and this submission that you mentioned. It is asking your wife, what does a path back to trust look like?

Speaker 4 And not you now running around and almost shutting her to the side or bringing her along, but more dragging her along and saying,

Speaker 4 I'm going to fix this, I'm going to go to this, I'm going to go to this, I'm going to go to this, or we're going to meet with this guy, I'm going to talk.

Speaker 4 It's saying, what do you need to begin to feel safe and trust me again?

Speaker 4 Okay?

Speaker 4 That is step number one. That's

Speaker 4 the big neon sign flashing emergency in your life right now is restoration of trust.

Speaker 4 And then

Speaker 4 it's probably going to be something along the lines of:

Speaker 4 I want to have a budget meeting with you, I want to know where all our accounts are.

Speaker 4 Here's where our retirement is, here's the account numbers, here's how to access it, here's my cell phone, all those kinds of things that reestablish trust at the step-by-step, I'll call it the micro level, that rebuilds a foundation that both of you can anchor into to go do what's going to be a couple of years of really hard work.

Speaker 4 Okay, does that make sense what I'm saying?

Speaker 8 It does.

Speaker 4 Okay, so you saying,

Speaker 4 I've hid this from you. And actually, I tried to do a noble thing, which is protect you, keep you safe, not worry you.
And in so doing, I created a big, big mess. And so here it is.
It's on the table.

Speaker 4 You've done that. I would hug you if you were here.
Most men don't have the courage to do that. What you did was brave and good and right.
And now

Speaker 4 it is realizing that the healing process is going to be slower than you want it to be.

Speaker 4 And on the back end of this, your marriage will be so much stronger than you could have ever possibly imagined it.

Speaker 4 And you will be a a man of character, not only in your words, but in the actions, and she will be able to anchor fully back into you and vice versa. You get what I'm saying?

Speaker 9 I do. We are already seeing that already, the just brokenness between the two of us, which has been

Speaker 10 beautiful.

Speaker 9 So I appreciate you saying that.

Speaker 4 And hey, part of this is, and this is unpopular to say, you addressing

Speaker 4 what might also be an elephant in the room, which is maybe she wasn't the safest person to sit down and talk about finances with.

Speaker 4 Maybe y'all were creating a dance where she didn't want to hear it or she wants to buy what she wants to buy.

Speaker 4 And then so you're trying to solve it and you're trying to fix it and you're coming up with a scheme over here and doing it. Who knows what the dance in your marriage is?

Speaker 4 But this allows that to all get put on the table over time.

Speaker 4 Sure. Okay.

Speaker 4 Unless you're just a terrible, terrible human, which I'm not hearing at all. These things don't happen in a vacuum.
They're co-created by two people in a marriage.

Speaker 4 And that's all that has to be put on the table.

Speaker 4 And if you just run out tomorrow and sell your house, you might bandaid over the math problem y'all have in front of you, but the problems in your marriage about trust and safety and do we both relax when we both see each other when we come home?

Speaker 4 That just gets wallpaper over and it will show up somewhere else down the road.

Speaker 3 It more magnifies.

Speaker 4 Right. Okay, so

Speaker 4 George is going to walk you through this stuff.

Speaker 3 My

Speaker 2 burning commentary is on this Christian financial advisor.

Speaker 4 Yeah, never talk to that person again, ever. Ever.

Speaker 2 Listen, God loves all of his children.

Speaker 2 They're made perfect in his image and some of their cornbread's not done in the middle and so what he has suggested of you dumping dirty water into another vessel doesn't actually solve the problem would you agree

Speaker 8 i don't love it uh

Speaker 2 i'm just what do you love about it because you're just moving the debt around and putting your home at double risk yeah you you now took the only safe place you and your wife have left and you've leveraged that and you made it into one giant pile that's even harder to pay off with a variable interest rate

Speaker 8 yeah so

Speaker 9 being underwater five to seven thousand dollars a month and yeah explain what do you mean by you're hemorrhaging seven thousand dollars a month what does that mean well a lot of that has to do with spending habits so if we

Speaker 2 which has nothing to do with the debt and so that's what i'm trying to get at is are you investing a dime right now

Speaker 2 401k out of my paycheck and he didn't advise you to stop investing to get rid of the mess he did he did yeah he he did stop he did recommend stopping Okay.

Speaker 2 So if you paused all investing, you guys lived on nothing.

Speaker 2 What's your mortgage payment?

Speaker 9 $2,082 a month.

Speaker 2 Okay, that's not the problem here. You can keep the house.
What you need to do is use this income, pause your 401k investments, make sure you're not getting a refund on your taxes.

Speaker 2 You need that money back in your paycheck. Can you live off of $3,400 a month?

Speaker 3 I'm just going to show you the math.

Speaker 9 If you were able to do that, so if you've got got math, then please show me.

Speaker 2 Here's the math. You make 90,000 net, right? If you stop investing, you're going to have even more, probably closer to 100,000 net.

Speaker 2 If you put 50 of that towards your debt, you're debt-free in two years. Total.
See the napkin math there?

Speaker 2 Which leaves 40 or 50 to live off of. Now, I don't know if that's reasonable to have your mortgage, your four walls covered, insurance, and minimum debt payments on that side.

Speaker 4 But be unreasonable for 24 months. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I think this could all be solved by you guys living like you're broke because Newsflash, flash, you're broke. So it's an easy problem to solve when you make $100,000 net.

Speaker 2 You can knock this out in two years without taking on more debt just by doing that debt snowball method. If you say you believe in the baby steps approach, try it.
Try it for a year.

Speaker 2 If you don't make progress and you want to go take out more debt, then you can be my guest.

Speaker 2 But I'm telling you, man, you can be debt-free in under two years if you follow this stuff and your marriage is going to be better for it. We believe in you.

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You can get it in the App Store or Google Play. Kristen is in Buffalo, New York, up next.
What's going on, Kristen?

Speaker 3 Hi, guys. Thanks so much for taking my call.
Sure.

Speaker 3 I just have a question that I think is pretty simple. My husband and I have paid off all of our debts except for we have his student loan.
It's the last one.

Speaker 3 It's $63,000 and it's in income-driven repayment with a current monthly

Speaker 3 payment of zero.

Speaker 3 And we're thinking we'd like to refinance it to kind of force ourselves to have to pay it.

Speaker 3 I know that's like a weird mind, like Jedi mind trick that we want to do, but we're wondering if we're crazy, if we should just pay through the student loan lender, which two of the loans, it's one loan, but there's four small ones, two are 10,000, two are 20,000.

Speaker 3 A couple of them have 5.2% interest and a couple have 6%.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 with refinancing or a personal loan to pay them, the interest would be higher.

Speaker 2 So what good would refinancing do at this point?

Speaker 3 It would, I feel like it's just kind of, the loan just kind of hangs out there, and we have two goals. One is to be debt-free, the other is to buy a home.

Speaker 3 Currently,

Speaker 3 we know that because we've been told, you know, through our mortgage pre-approval that the student loan isn't affecting our pre-approval because it's a minimum payment of zero.

Speaker 3 But

Speaker 3 so we're kind of at this point where we know we need to buy a home eventually,

Speaker 3 but we also want to kind of force ourselves to not just let this loan be sitting in the background just because, even though it's accumulating interest, the payment zero. So

Speaker 3 we have a trusted Ramsey Pro who kind of said because of our ages,

Speaker 3 it doesn't, you know, it would be okay to kind of be saving for a down payment and paying off this debt.

Speaker 3 How much do you guys buy?

Speaker 3 Total about $120 to $128 a year.

Speaker 2 Okay, so this debt could be gone in a year if you just hunkered down.

Speaker 3 Yeah, we have about $5,000 extra a month we could be putting on this debt.

Speaker 2 So the math they just laid out is perfectly there. $5,000 a month for 12 months, 60 grand.

Speaker 2 So the loan is done in 12 months. And that's without you guys.
I mean, you could probably even scratch up a little more money, spend a little less, and make it happen faster, couldn't you?

Speaker 3 For sure. Yep.

Speaker 3 That's the plan, is to move through it. I don't trust myself.

Speaker 2 Why don't you trust yourself?

Speaker 3 Well, this loan is kind of not interfering with us.

Speaker 3 But it is, but

Speaker 2 you're calling a national radio show to talk about this loan. I would say it's very much living in your head rent-free.

Speaker 3 Oh, it's totally living in my head. But we're also worried what if the right house comes up and then

Speaker 2 listen, you guys jumped the gun trying to home shop with $63,000 of loan sitting on the other side. That loan isn't going away.

Speaker 2 In fact, the interest is just adding to it, and that loan isn't going away. So it would light an extra fire under me to start making payments.

Speaker 2 Not $0, not $100, but $5,000 a month payments on this to knock it out in the next 12 months.

Speaker 3 We definitely have that fire. I'm just worried,

Speaker 3 what if something happens and I don't have that fire six?

Speaker 2 It's not a soul, mate. It's a house.
There's going to be more of them a year from now.

Speaker 3 No,

Speaker 3 I don't mean the house. I mean the payment on the loan.
Okay, okay, let me say. Right now, we have the fire.

Speaker 3 Let me say it this way.

Speaker 4 If you wait for motivation to do anything, if you wait for a quote-unquote fire,

Speaker 4 whatever you're aiming for,

Speaker 4 you'll never get all the way there.

Speaker 3 I agree with you, John.

Speaker 3 That's kind of what I'm asking. If we refinance this to our credit union,

Speaker 3 now that loan is sitting in our bank and we have to look at it every day. And I think...

Speaker 2 So you're trying to make it more difficult to make you more scared of it to make you pay it.

Speaker 3 That's exactly what I'm trying to do.

Speaker 3 That is an untrustworthy person.

Speaker 2 You sound trustworthy.

Speaker 3 I trust Kristen. I've been doing this show for 20 years, and I have been in and out of debt many times.
And we're finally on

Speaker 3 the right track.

Speaker 2 You've been in and out to where you don't even trust yourself to pay off this debt because you go, well, Kristen's not the kind of person who just pays off debt and stays out of debt.

Speaker 2 So here's the thing. It's going to be a trust exercise.

Speaker 4 You need 12 months. You need this.

Speaker 2 How much do you guys have saved right now?

Speaker 3 Not a lot. We only have about $5,000 saved.

Speaker 2 Okay, and how old are you two?

Speaker 3 I'm 41. He's 53.
Okay.

Speaker 2 Picture like 10-year-old Kristen. If you said, hey, one day, you're going to be making $120,000.
And then your 10-year-old self's going to say, how much money do you have?

Speaker 2 And you're going to say, $5,000.

Speaker 2 Don't you think that's wild that you guys work this hard?

Speaker 4 And $60,000.

Speaker 2 Making six figures and you have nothing to show for it.

Speaker 3 Well, we had a lot of debt up until recently. We finally just got here is what I'm saying.
I know too. I'm afraid.
Why did you say

Speaker 4 you're like at mile 22 of the marathon, and suddenly you're like, I don't think I can make it.

Speaker 4 Just look behind you. Look how far you've come.
You for sure can make it. It sounds like, you know what? It sounds like you're tired.

Speaker 2 Here's the math of it. You have four loans.
I love that they're split up. Please do not refinance into one private, more expensive loan.
Because right now, in two months, that loan is knocked out.

Speaker 2 Ta-da.

Speaker 4 You freed up a payment. You only have three left.

Speaker 2 Two more months, you knocked out the next smallest.

Speaker 2 That's another payment freed up. You can add to the next one.
Do you see that's going to cause you to trust yourself again when you see that kind of progress and momentum?

Speaker 3 I don't know. I guess so.
Yes.

Speaker 4 Listen,

Speaker 4 somewhere big and bold in your home, Christmas of 2026, y'all are going to go somewhere awesome because you're not going to owe anybody any money.

Speaker 2 And the home is just going to be on a temporary delay.

Speaker 2 It's not going to happen in 12 months. So, you know what? Don't even look.
Don't even doom scroll Zillow to see what could have been.

Speaker 4 Because you know what? Because right now, Zillow is pornography for you.

Speaker 4 It is a way to escape

Speaker 4 that feeling inside that I'm exhausted. I'm not where I should be.
And I got

Speaker 4 a hard conversation. I have a hard path ahead of me.
I'm just going to off-ramp it here.

Speaker 4 Pinterest is pornography right now. Zillow is pornography right now.
Talking to

Speaker 4 a real estate agent is an emotional affair right now.

Speaker 4 Just don't. Just don't.
Concentrate on the one single goal you have, which is we're going to get to zero.

Speaker 3 And we'll have done it.

Speaker 4 You get what I'm saying? You've done so good.

Speaker 3 Yeah. I know that I knew this question sounded crazy.
No, it doesn't sound crazy.

Speaker 4 It just sounds... It sounds like you're tired and you're just like, hey,

Speaker 4 should I just take some performance enhancing drugs for the last four miles?

Speaker 3 And the answer is no.

Speaker 3 I think it's just that we've done so much better under pressure, and I work better under pressure, and we paid off our debt better under pressure.

Speaker 4 All right, let me give you some pressure.

Speaker 4 24 months ago, would you have bet anything politically that has happened would have happened?

Speaker 3 No. No.

Speaker 4 Okay, so in 24 months from now,

Speaker 4 good God almighty, who knows

Speaker 4 whether there's going to be no such thing as deferment anymore. I'm just making stuff up, whether they're going to demand all of the interest in a lump sum payment or put you in jail.
I don't know.

Speaker 4 You don't know.

Speaker 4 There is a ton of pressure on you right now.

Speaker 2 Okay. And if you want pressure, imagine there's a $5,000 minimum payment due on these loans or just switch out of IDR completely to a standard repayment plan.

Speaker 2 If you're begging for a normal payment, they'll give you one.

Speaker 3 You don't mean that, do you?

Speaker 4 Yeah. You're calling us asking.

Speaker 2 You said I don't feel the pressure because it's $0.

Speaker 2 Okay. Well, you can switch to a standard repayment plan where it's $400, $500.

Speaker 2 But I'm telling you, you can just imagine there's a $5,000 minimum payment or else someone's going to come knocking on your door if you need that manufactured pressure in order to do this plan.

Speaker 4 I don't think you need it.

Speaker 4 I don't. I just think you're tired.
I think you want a house.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 4 And I think you're so close to the finish line here on this part of your trip.

Speaker 2 And I think you're frustrated and you have some shame and guilt because of the past decisions that have led you to have this delayed dream of home ownership. And that's a very normal thing.

Speaker 2 That's not crazy. That's normal in America today.
For better and worse, it's normal. And so I would put the shame and guilt down and go, we make amazing money.
We're going to put it to good use.

Speaker 2 We're going to be out of this thing a year from now. And we're going to have the rest of our lives debt-free.
And we're going to be homeowners one day.

Speaker 4 The The Christmas present y'all buy each other this year is to get rid of that first student loan. Love that.
That's a great present for both of you.

Speaker 2 Make a little card if you want to add some finache to it.

Speaker 4 This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. This time of year can be tough.

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Speaker 2 welcome back to the ramsey show in the fair winds credit union Studio. I'm George Camill, joined by best-selling author Dr.
John Deloney. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Speaker 2 Sarah is in Columbia, South Carolina, up next. What's going on, Sarah?

Speaker 3 Hi,

Speaker 3 my question is that I am in the process of trying to leave an abusive marriage, but I have a lot of debt.

Speaker 3 And I'm trying to figure out what I need to prioritize as far as my money in order to make a safe exit.

Speaker 4 Do y'all have a bunch of debt or do you have debt?

Speaker 3 Both. Okay.

Speaker 3 We do.

Speaker 4 I think right now your chief,

Speaker 4 the most important thing for you is to get to a safe place.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 I physically, I feel physically safe. Okay.

Speaker 3 But

Speaker 3 it's just a lot. I do.
Okay.

Speaker 4 Then I would create your own checking account to have your check

Speaker 4 deposited into it for the time time being

Speaker 4 and we're going to go into store mode because you're going to need cash

Speaker 2 right and you're going to take care of your four walls so that means making minimum debt payments on anything that's yours is is everything co-signed for are you both on each debt um

Speaker 3 so we are um

Speaker 3 let's see the car is mine i have a student loan um and the rest of it is like credit cards and personal loans and that's kind of both Well, and even if you,

Speaker 4 if y'all,

Speaker 4 or if he quote-unquote bought a car and both of y'all's income went into a pot and y'all paid that car off, he may have some that he owes you to help pay off your car.

Speaker 4 All of that said, that's for the lawyers to figure out.

Speaker 4 Because the debts are going to get parsed out.

Speaker 4 The assets y'all have are going to get parsed out.

Speaker 4 That's the fight.

Speaker 4 Does your spouse know you're about to file?

Speaker 3 So we've had a big discussion

Speaker 3 and it isn't really going over well.

Speaker 3 But he's aware, and I do have a lawyer, and

Speaker 3 thank goodness I have a family member that has paid my retainer

Speaker 3 for that.

Speaker 3 But yeah, he's aware.

Speaker 4 Yeah,

Speaker 4 let the attorneys work for you.

Speaker 4 Okay. If y'all were able to have a big conversation, which almost never happens when there's an abusive spouse, where everybody goes, you're right.
Here's my piece. Here's your piece.

Speaker 4 Let's shake hands and go down to the courthouse for $300 and file the paperwork on our own and be adults. But you wouldn't be in the situation if you weren't in an abusive, unsafe situation.

Speaker 4 Wanting that to happen, it's not going to happen.

Speaker 4 Dave gave me a quote one time that I loved. The moment somebody files divorce,

Speaker 4 it's now a business business transaction. And that's how we're going to treat it.
And we're going to let the people who are trained to do business transactions, which is the attorneys, do that stuff.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And I, I've tried that. I have tried to be as, you know, strong as possible and, you know, not engage, not engage, not engage.

Speaker 8 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Um,

Speaker 3 and he just, he's very emotional about it. That's right.

Speaker 4 Let your husband say all the wild stuff, everything all, keep every text message, keep all the emails. I'm going to take you for everything.
You're going to all that stuff fine.

Speaker 4 Your goal now is to take care of you.

Speaker 4 Do you have groceries? Do you have a place to stay? Are you able to make your minimum payments? And we're going to go from there.

Speaker 3 Okay. What do you make?

Speaker 3 So I make,

Speaker 3 I just started a new job. I make around $120, which is a great income.

Speaker 2 Amazing. And the debts that are tied to your name, either joint or solo, what does that add up to?

Speaker 3 About

Speaker 3 almost 70.

Speaker 2 Okay. What's the car worth that's in your name?

Speaker 3 I'm not sure what it's worth. It has 15 left on the loan.
Okay.

Speaker 2 I'm just wondering if you get to a tight spot and you could sell that and downgrade or borrow a car from a family member for now, that might be a good move to get you to some better financial footing.

Speaker 2 But I love the idea of you going today, creating your own checking and savings account, not connected to the bank that you're currently with with your husband, and starting basically basically your new financial life right now to protect yourself and allowing that direct deposit to go there.

Speaker 2 And, like John said, just stack up cash, make minimum payments on the debt, don't get behind on it, don't let it go to collections.

Speaker 2 But then, once the divorce settles, you'll know as the dust clears which debts you're going to be owing on, what you could do, and you'll have a pile of cash to help you get that kickstarted.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 4 What do you do for a living?

Speaker 3 I'm a nurse practitioner.

Speaker 4 I was just thinking, nurse, so his attorney, if he or she is worth their assault, is going to make a claim that he put you through nursing school and so that you get, he should get a part of that.

Speaker 4 So all that stuff, like, it's not going to come out clean. It's going to be a mess.

Speaker 3 Right. Divorce is a mess.

Speaker 4 But we're trying to get from here to there. And from here to there is don't make any wild purchases.
Don't overstress with when he started, like

Speaker 4 try to do your best to retain your emotional sanity as he throws whatever grenade he's going to throw.

Speaker 2 So sorry you're going through this.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I hate it for you.

Speaker 2 All right, let's go out to Rachel up next in Atlanta. What's going on, Rachel?

Speaker 3 Hey, guys, thanks for taking my call. Sure.
What's your question?

Speaker 3 Okay, so my parents are aging and they have Alzheimer's and dementia. And so we are beginning to look at like long-term care facilities, assisted living, that kind of thing.

Speaker 3 And we know that we're going to need to liquidate their assets. in order to pay for this, right?

Speaker 3 And we know we have their house, they have some annuities, my mom has some stock in AT ⁇ T.

Speaker 3 And so what I really need advice on is what kind of professional would I need to seek out to help me combine all these tiny little accounts into one big account that would be liquid enough to pay for a facility.

Speaker 2 So you're trying to piece these

Speaker 2 puzzle pieces together to go, okay, we have all these random things out here.

Speaker 2 How do we basically sell off any assets and create a cash account in like a high-yield savings or money market that we can use to fund the rest of their care.

Speaker 3 Right.

Speaker 2 Well, the issue that I would see is you're going to need financial power of attorney to make any financial decisions on their behalf.

Speaker 3 Right.

Speaker 2 And so that would depend on.

Speaker 3 Pretty much have that. We set up a living trust.
Okay.

Speaker 3 And I am one of the trustees, but the way they worded the power of attorney, basically each of my parents would have to, quote, resign as a trustee in order for me to be able to completely take over.

Speaker 3 I am working on getting them to do that, but it is a slow process because there is a lot of pride and a lot of denial.

Speaker 4 Well, do they have clinical diagnostics around their dementia?

Speaker 4 Yes. Okay.
Then that in and of itself may

Speaker 4 preclude them from being able to sign off.

Speaker 2 That's my fear. If they don't have the capacity mentally where they go, yeah, they can sign off on this.
They know exactly what they're doing. The courts won't sign off on it.

Speaker 4 But if you have medical power of attorney, then that's when you step in to make decisions for somebody who is unable to make decisions for themselves. Okay.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 it's a nightmare because

Speaker 4 you're going to find yourself trying to do the best you can to love and honor your parents well.

Speaker 4 And in their diminishing cognitive capacity, you're going to become the biggest target, the biggest enemy to them.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 I hope you're wrong in that.

Speaker 4 I know, I know.

Speaker 4 I've just sat with too many people whose parents have dementia and they feel like they're getting hit on one side by insurance companies and care facilities and on the other side getting hit by the person they love the most who is a scared, terrified parent watching their ability to function slip through their own fingers.

Speaker 4 And it just, it's the worst. It's a nightmare.
So it's just getting yourself, if you're married, you've got brothers and sisters, y'all stealing yourself for the coming storm.

Speaker 4 But yeah, if they already have been diagnosed with dementia or Alzheimer's, then I don't think they can even sign off on anything moving forward.

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Speaker 2 All right, John, we're going to play a little game. Where are they now? We often take calls and then we just, that's it.
We'll never talk to them again.

Speaker 4 Okay, I thought you were talking about like one of your ex-girlfriends from middle school or something.

Speaker 2 She lives here now. No, that would be hilarious and awful at the same time.
No, this is a call from Skylar that you and I took back in February of 2025, this year.

Speaker 2 And she had made some mistakes in college, moved in with her parents as a single mom. Her parents then wanted her to put a mother-in-law suite on the back of their property.

Speaker 2 She was in baby step two trying to pay off debt.

Speaker 4 I do remember this call now.

Speaker 2 So she wanted to communicate to her parents that she didn't want to go into more debt. She got an apartment, was scared to tell them.
They were using her to get ahead financially.

Speaker 2 We told her, hey, you got to move out. And she couldn't afford the apartment on her own without her parents helping.
So it was a very

Speaker 2 just toxic, codependent situation. She was working long hours delivering mail.
She was scared. And we told her, Hey, lean into the hard conversations, into the conflict.
This is not forever.

Speaker 2 This is a season. We gave her some resources.
And then something magical happened. She reached back out and said, Hey, I want to update you guys on where I'm at now.

Speaker 4 Oh, I hope she doesn't call and be like, you ruined my life.

Speaker 2 That's always my fear. I'm hoping we've got good news from Skylar.
How you been, Skylar?

Speaker 3 I've been great. How are you guys doing? Good.

Speaker 2 Good. That's a relief to hear.
Okay, so what is the update? Did you end up moving out?

Speaker 3 I did. So I had the conversation with my parents and I pretty much told them, I was like, I can't afford to put a mother-in-law suite on the back of the property.

Speaker 3 They pretty much were like, they were just trying to think of a way to help me have my own living space

Speaker 3 and pretty much be independent while also being close enough to help me with my son. That's what the conversation boiled down to.

Speaker 3 But I found a cheaper apartment, was able to move out. Good.
And I'm actually teaching now. Wow.

Speaker 4 A full-time gig, huh?

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah. Making more money?

Speaker 3 About the same. Okay.

Speaker 2 And how's single mom life going? What's going on with the kiddo?

Speaker 3 It's better.

Speaker 3 I'm able to get him in the elementary school near the high school I work at. And so I could drop him off in the morning.
I get to pick him up after school.

Speaker 3 I could spend weekends with him, which before, when I was working with the post office, I got lucky to see him maybe an hour or two before he went to bed. Wow.
And I didn't see him in the morning.

Speaker 3 You got your whole life back.

Speaker 4 It's amazing.

Speaker 3 Yeah. All right.
So I got a boyfriend, so it works out.

Speaker 2 A boyfriend enter the picture.

Speaker 3 Gross.

Speaker 4 All right. Good for you.
Good for you. All right.
So I am of the belief that most of the time, not always, but most of the time, when aging parents come up with a plan or a scheme,

Speaker 4 that actually deep down they're trying to help and they open up their toolkit and there's just one or two tools in there.

Speaker 4 And so take me back to that conversation you had with your parents.

Speaker 4 Did it ruin your relationship with them or when they explained themselves, did you realize, oh, y'all are trying, they're actually trying to

Speaker 4 help in the way they know how and maybe their generation was just borrow money or just whatever.

Speaker 4 Tell me about that relation, that conversation and then tell me about your relationship with your parents now.

Speaker 3 Yeah, that's pretty much how the conversation went. It was.
They were trying to help me

Speaker 3 be independent and be on my own, but still provide the support I needed with working at the post office. Okay.

Speaker 3 And it ended up being a productive conversation. Y'all still talk? Y'all still close?

Speaker 3 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 3 My son goes over there on the weekends still because he wants to visit his Grammy and Papa. Oh, cool.
Love it.

Speaker 3 The

Speaker 3 atmosphere has completely changed where before when I was living there with them, things were tense all the time.

Speaker 2 And now that we all have our own space, it's way more relaxed and there is no tense oh yeah go on we we threw a bunch of resources at you at the last call financial peace university every dollar how what's the financial progress been like

Speaker 2 um

Speaker 3 it's still steady okay it's knocking out some debts in baby step two still working through that yes so when i went through financial peace university and i did all the things i sat down and looked at everything really i was able i was able to pay off three credit cards at one time wow

Speaker 3 because i didn't realize they were so low.

Speaker 3 That's crazy. You're just looking at those men of payments.

Speaker 2 Just by not ignoring it and not being in denial, going, all right, I'm going to put this on paper, put it in the Every Dollar app, and go, what can I do about this?

Speaker 2 And you just went, I could knock these three out.

Speaker 3 Oh, yeah. Knocked those three out.

Speaker 3 Right now I'm working on, obviously, I still have three more credit cards, so I'm working on those, getting those done.

Speaker 2 Yeah, how much is left total?

Speaker 3 All my credit cards.

Speaker 2 Yeah, total debt that you have left to pay off in Baby Step 2.

Speaker 3 Oh, like completely? Yeah.

Speaker 3 $115.

Speaker 4 You got a journey ahead of you, huh?

Speaker 3 Yeah, it's student loans.

Speaker 3 Because I went back to school to get a master's degree, and, you know, at the time, takeout a loan was always, you know. Did you finish the master's? Oh, yeah, I have my master's in marine biology.

Speaker 2 Okay, and you're using that now to teach, or are you not teaching on that subject?

Speaker 3 I'm not teaching yet. I'm hoping to hear back from a job, though.
Very awesome.

Speaker 2 Well, we are rooting for you, Skylar. Appreciate the update.
I'd love to see just how much life has changed for you in nine months just by having some hard conversations and doing some hard things.

Speaker 4 Skylar, give like, so there are, we're heading into the holiday season,

Speaker 4 and one out of three calls of letters that come into my show, the John Deloney show,

Speaker 4 one out of three of those is either

Speaker 4 like adult, newly adult kids who have cut off their aging aging parents or aging parents who have cut off their kids.

Speaker 4 And almost always there's one big, heavy, looming conversation hanging between that relationship.

Speaker 4 What would you tell the 25-year-old, the 27-year-old, the 22-year-old that can't, feels like they can no longer be around their aging parents

Speaker 4 about that conversation? What advice would you give them?

Speaker 3 Well, from my experience,

Speaker 3 you just have to say it because nine times out of ten, it's not as bad as you think it is.

Speaker 3 I'm a huge overthinker, and so I had the whole conversation in my head before I even approached my parents about it, and that's what scared me into not telling them. Ah,

Speaker 4 you replayed that imaginary conversation a thousand times, huh?

Speaker 3 Oh, yeah. Like every second I wanted to bring it up, that conversation would play over again.
Okay. And, you know, people do change, too.

Speaker 3 If you're with, if you know for sure your parents or whoever you have to have that conversation with is making efforts to be a better person,

Speaker 3 they're most like, they're more likely going to not react the way that you expect.

Speaker 4 Gotcha. Well, I'm proud of you for doing that.
And this is what changing your family tree looks like. And

Speaker 4 you're raising a kid that's going to know I can always go to my mom with hard conversations. And you're living proof.
That's amazing. We're proud of you.

Speaker 3 Thank you. It's cool.
And I appreciate you guys. I used everything you guys gave me, and then I shared the books you guys sent me with a friend of mine who he did them too.

Speaker 4 I love it.

Speaker 2 The ripple effect continues, John. Yeah, pass it along.

Speaker 3 Pass it along.

Speaker 2 There's so many pieces there. You know, we behind the scenes, we talk about the Ramsey Show as being more than about money.

Speaker 2 It's expanded because we realized half the calls are about relational dysfunction, not about the money thing, which is what they called in about as we dig one layer deeper.

Speaker 2 Or it's about a work thing and a career thing and getting the income up. And this one really hits all three of those buckets.
Correct. She had a career problem.
She had the money problem.

Speaker 2 And she had the relational problem with the parents. And it's amazing how you can work on all three at once and there's a domino effect.

Speaker 4 Well, and the underlying, the underlying foundation of all those problems is this one uncomfortable truth. You cannot go around scary things.
You can't go around debt. You can't go around

Speaker 4 that big, hard, scary conversation you need to have with your loved ones one, two, or three times. You can't go around a job that's not working for you and your new kit.
You can't go around it.

Speaker 4 You got to go right through it. And it doesn't always have a happy ending like Skylar has, right?

Speaker 4 But there's more happy endings out there if you will just head right through the discomfort.

Speaker 2 Well, most people have pre-decided, well, here's what's going to happen, so what's the point?

Speaker 4 Or it's the imaginary conversation.

Speaker 4 I'm going to tell George. You're never going to tell George that, right?

Speaker 4 And then they're going to say that

Speaker 4 that kind of rumination is never,

Speaker 4 it's never happy. Brene Brown calls it dress rehearsing tragedy.
You're just

Speaker 4 performing it without actually doing it. Just go.
We're heading in the holiday season. If you've got to have that hard conversation, have it.

Speaker 2 Now is the time.

Speaker 4 If you realize I can't even afford the Christmas presents, I'm about to start buying, then have that reality. Go right through the middle of the discomfort.
Talk about it at Thanksgiving.

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 2 At Christmas in a blow-up argument. That's exactly right.
You set the boundary, you set the expectation, and that's really going to to create the best life for you.

Speaker 2 Instead of being resentful, I'd rather you feel a little guilty. That's the best case scenario.

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Speaker 2 Well, John, the old dog's got some new tricks. We've done something different on the Ramsey show and started introducing video calls.

Speaker 2 So now we don't just get to hear from the audience, we get to see their beautiful faces.

Speaker 2 So if you want to be a part of that, you've got a question you'd like to submit and you want to be on video, we'd love that. Go to ramseysolutions.com slash ask.
Let us know your question.

Speaker 2 And in the subject line, just put video call so our team knows that you are willing and able to be on video. And the experience has been really cool so far.
So we'd love more of those video calls.

Speaker 2 Go to ramseysolutions.com slash ask subject video call. Looking forward to talking and seeing you guys.
All right, let's go to Grace in Jacksonville, Florida up next. Grace, how can we help today?

Speaker 2 Hi.

Speaker 3 I'm sorry, I'm really nervous to meet you guys.

Speaker 3 I am 19 and I want to know how to best prepare and invest in my future, even though I make a low income, while having debt and helping my mother pay bills.

Speaker 2 Wow, that's a lot to take on as a 19-year-old. What kind of debt are you in?

Speaker 3 It's just, it's just credit cards, but

Speaker 4 how much?

Speaker 3 $3,375.

Speaker 2 Okay. And what do you make?

Speaker 3 I work two part-time jobs and a couple other things on the side, but I still only make about a little less than $28,000.

Speaker 2 $28,000. Okay.
And are you in school? What's going on on the other side?

Speaker 3 I am in college. I'm almost done with my

Speaker 3 Associates in Arts degree, and then I want to go into communications.

Speaker 2 Great. Is that part of your undergrad?

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 2 Okay, so it's a four-year situation?

Speaker 3 Two-year, and then I'm going into a two-year university for the bachelor's.

Speaker 2 Great. Okay.
And are you cash flowing that or are you going into student loan debt?

Speaker 3 I don't have any student loans. It's all all financial aid paid for, and I have chapter 35 from my dad being in the military.
Okay, great.

Speaker 2 That's one of my goals for you. You're talking about how to invest in myself.
It's to avoid student loan debt.

Speaker 2 It's a plague among young adults, and it's going to propel you forward if you can do this debt-free.

Speaker 2 Now, tell me about mom. What's going on with you helping mom with expenses?

Speaker 3 So, my parents are divorced,

Speaker 3 so and I live with my mom. So, she's basically a single mother and has been for many, a couple years.

Speaker 3 I use some of the money to help her pay bills up to like $250 to $500 every two weeks,

Speaker 3 and that goes to the mortgage on our house as well.

Speaker 3 So, like, with that,

Speaker 3 the mortgage bills and all of that, I do end up like spending a lot of money.

Speaker 2 So, $500 to $1,000 a month is what you're doling out from your take-home pay?

Speaker 4 Basically,

Speaker 4 is she sitting you down and saying i need this money to survive or is this you

Speaker 4 just trying to pitch in or is this do you pay rent like what's the arrangement here

Speaker 4 um it's it's not it's it's the first one um

Speaker 3 like just to like be able to just get at least get us by

Speaker 2 i i i know she asked for that she asked for the help asking for

Speaker 2 yes okay is she working full time

Speaker 3 um yes she is a director at a daycare center Okay. Okay.

Speaker 2 And what does she make? Do you know?

Speaker 3 About $50,000 a year. Okay.

Speaker 3 And it's a brand new job, though. Okay.

Speaker 2 I'm wondering, the future for Grace means you're probably moving out eventually.

Speaker 2 And so I want to make sure that mom has a sustainable plan versus, well, if I don't have Grace's money, I'm going to be broke.

Speaker 4 Well, and here's the problem for you, Grace, is

Speaker 4 you can't make that choice for her. You can't make that decision for her.
And ultimately, you can't be held responsible for the choices she makes.

Speaker 4 And so, on the back end of divorce, one of the hardest conversations I have with people who just got divorced is:

Speaker 4 you cannot afford the home y'all have been living in.

Speaker 4 And people want to keep everything the same except for the divorce, and the divorce is so painful and it's so messy, and yada yada, but we want everything else to stay the same.

Speaker 4 And that's what's one of the hardest conversations. And you, as a 19-year-old,

Speaker 4 you can't continue to prop up

Speaker 4 a bigger, harder decision that your mom needs to make on her own as an adult.

Speaker 4 If you want to choose to live there and say, hey, I want to start, I want to shift this from, hey, 200 this month, I need 400 for next month.

Speaker 4 I'm telling you right now, Grace, this is a recipe for resentment. And your mom doesn't deserve that and you don't either.

Speaker 4 It's getting really clear with, I want to come up with a rent number that I pay you every month.

Speaker 4 Okay. You get what I'm saying? And that's you stepping into your 19-year-oldness, your young adulthood, and saying, I want to begin to clarify my roles and responsibilities in my life.

Speaker 4 Because you can't make a plan if there's the emotional weight and the reality to, hey, I need a thousand bucks. Hey, I need 500 bucks.
Hey, I need 200 bucks over here.

Speaker 4 Because here's what you're going to start doing. Rightfully so.

Speaker 4 Hey, why did you buy that? We didn't need that. You're going out to eat again.
Like, you're going to start these little bitty cracks in your relationship with your mom.

Speaker 4 And so I want you to own what you can on your side of that relationship, which is clarity, clarity, clarity, clarity. And like George said,

Speaker 4 I want you to start considering being in your own apartment by 20. You don't have to, but what would the math look like? What would you need to do?

Speaker 4 What would the world look like if that was your plan?

Speaker 3 So we me and my mom actually used to live in an apartment and we just moved into a house

Speaker 3 because we couldn't afford the rent anymore.

Speaker 2 So she purchased that home?

Speaker 3 It is with a mortgage.

Speaker 3 Yeah, she bought it.

Speaker 4 She can't afford that home either.

Speaker 2 Yeah, what's the mortgage on it? Do you know?

Speaker 3 The monthly or the full like the monthly mortgage.

Speaker 3 About

Speaker 3 $1,700.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 2 Well, can she afford that on her own if you were to move out today?

Speaker 2 Because my guess is she's probably bringing home 3,000 something a month

Speaker 2 I don't I don't think she would so that's my fear is that this mortgage is over half of her take-home pay and the only reason she could afford it was because you're there helping to prop it up artificially right now

Speaker 2 so that's going to be part of that hard decision that John said that's not your responsibility

Speaker 2 That's the sad truth. And so if she has to end up selling this home because you decide to move out, I don't want you to feel guilty for that.

Speaker 4 Okay.

Speaker 4 Because then you're going to begin to say, well, I can't afford to finish this degree or I can't take this job in this town that they just, they want to hire me for because I've got to stay.

Speaker 4 And it's a, it's a, it's a counterintuitive way that's going to really cap you. And your mom trying to take care of you, you're like, we're right or die together.

Speaker 4 That's a ton of weight for a teenager to carry.

Speaker 4 Or let me put it this way.

Speaker 4 I always tell parents, you can't call your kid your friend until they reach 25 because a teenager can't carry the weight of an adult friendship and of the full adult responsibilities. It's a lot.

Speaker 4 And I'm not saying you let your mom be destitute or whatever, but she's got to make grown-up decisions.

Speaker 4 And if she has to get this daycare job and then go from there to working holiday hours at Target or whatever to pay her bills, man, that's hard and it's tough.

Speaker 4 And she's an adult and she needs to make those math decisions if she wants to rent out a room to her daughter awesome let's just get that real real real clear

Speaker 2 okay and lastly grace what was the thirty three hundred bucks in credit card debt for

Speaker 2 um

Speaker 2 so

Speaker 3 uh it's actually from my mom um

Speaker 3 because we

Speaker 3 This was a pre-planned prepay thing like from a while ago that my old school was doing this Europe tour.

Speaker 3 And so we went because it was like

Speaker 3 really cheap to do. It was with a whole school education.
So you put on the credit card?

Speaker 3 Yeah, my mom.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 Let me tell you this. 3,300 bucks at 29% APR is not cheap.

Speaker 2 And so if I were you, I would pay off that credit card, cut it up, freeze your credit so that you can't make another bad financial decision, especially at 19.

Speaker 4 And I think I just heard you say something right there at the end of that call.

Speaker 4 Never, ever, ever, ever let your mom talk you into borrowing money on your credit, on your social security number, on your credit cards. That is a nightmare recipe.

Speaker 2 You're setting a precedent.

Speaker 4 Blow up your relationship with her forever.

Speaker 2 Grace, it's normal to be broke at 19, but it's not normal to have this kind of intertwined financial life with your mother. And so that's the thing I would caution you against.

Speaker 7 The holidays can come with a lot of pressure to spend. Family, friends, secret Santa at the office, all the things.
But y'all, this season should be about peace, not payments.

Speaker 7 That's a big reason why I love Fairwinds Credit Union. They share the Ramsey values of helping you reach your money goals without debt.

Speaker 7 And with the Fairwinds Smart Bundle, Ramsey fans get a no-fee checking account, a high-yield savings to grow your emergency fund, and the exclusive Ramsey Be Weird debit card.

Speaker 7 It says debt is normal, be weird right there on the front. So every time you use it, it's a reminder that you're doing your money differently.

Speaker 7 So this Christmas, skip the credit cards and celebrate progress, not payments. Spend with peace peace of mind, knowing that you're sticking to your budget and staying debt-free.

Speaker 7 And check out the Fairwinds Smart Bundle today at fairwinds.org/slash Ramsey. And open up the smart bundle and grab your exclusive Ramsey B.
Weird debit card. That's fairwinds.org slash Ramsey.

Speaker 7 Fairwinds is federally insured by the NCUA.

Speaker 2 Hey, you don't have to wait for Black Friday to get Black Friday deals. The sale is on now in our store.
That includes $12 best-selling hardcovers, $12 questions for humans decks from my friend Dr.

Speaker 2 John Deloney, audiobooks and e-books for just $6.99, and $15 assessments. So much more where that came from.
Go to ramseysolutions.com slash store.

Speaker 2 Or if you're watching on YouTube or podcasts, click the link in the description. Chris is in Cleveland up next.
What's going on, Chris?

Speaker 3 Hi, thanks for taking from the bottom of my heart my call. Oh, we're on.

Speaker 3 I'm calling. Oh, you guys are great.
Long time listener. I wish I would have followed through.
Everybody out there, listen to them. It would have been great.
Thank you.

Speaker 3 What I'm calling about is

Speaker 3 there's a long history, but I'm 70 years old.

Speaker 3 My first husband passed away, my second husband passed away, but with the second husband he and well I did I adopted my grandchild because of situations

Speaker 3 eventually

Speaker 3 because of different things I bought a condo

Speaker 3 on my own.

Speaker 3 The condo now is worth about $425,000.

Speaker 3 I have Social Security and other things coming in.

Speaker 3 Jacob now,

Speaker 3 the child, is 19 years old,

Speaker 3 and he is in an HVAC program, which I'm really proud of him for doing that. And he's a good kid.
But I'm wondering, he kind of wants to venture out.

Speaker 3 And I'm to the point where I kind of want to sell the condo.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 I'm wondering if I should sell it and buy him something

Speaker 3 or if I should just stay here and help rent it out to him and this new girlfriend.

Speaker 4 I can tell by your voice, you know the answer to all that is no.

Speaker 4 Why do you feel the pressure

Speaker 4 to do something that you don't want to do?

Speaker 3 I want to make sure

Speaker 3 that I,

Speaker 3 you know, his mom is a wayward child

Speaker 3 and

Speaker 3 daughter who is great.

Speaker 3 But I want to make sure he's taken care of. I want to make sure he has something.
I'm 70.

Speaker 4 Are you paying for this HVAC program?

Speaker 3 No,

Speaker 3 the HVAC program,

Speaker 3 he has gotten, you know, some foundations and everything for it.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 I do have

Speaker 3 money from his grandfather.

Speaker 3 No, I'm not paying for it.

Speaker 4 Distill down for me what your actual question is. Are you asking, should you sell

Speaker 4 your home so that you can buy him a house?

Speaker 3 Well, the point is,

Speaker 3 I want to make sure he's taken care of.

Speaker 3 This condo is getting to be a lot funny.

Speaker 2 What does taken care of mean? Yeah, because there's a difference of he's not going to be on the streets to he has a paid-for-home at 90%.

Speaker 4 You adopted him and saved him.

Speaker 3 He is where he is because of you.

Speaker 3 I know. I understand.

Speaker 4 Okay, so you have given him everything.

Speaker 3 I know. And now he's on a good path.

Speaker 4 He's going to be one of these new blue-collar millionaires that everybody's talking about.

Speaker 3 But you know what? I'm to the point where I don't want this condo anymore. Okay, that's a separate issue.
Disconnect that from your grandson.

Speaker 4 Where do you want to move?

Speaker 4 Where are you going to live? Because you're going to live to be 95.

Speaker 4 You got 20 more years.

Speaker 3 I hope so.

Speaker 4 Okay, you got 20 more years. He's going to be 40.

Speaker 3 Where are you going to go?

Speaker 2 Are you going to go rent somewhere?

Speaker 3 And that's what I don't know what to do. I don't know because he doesn't want to stay.

Speaker 3 He's talking about moving out.

Speaker 3 And if he's talking about moving out and him and this girlfriend for $800 a month can afford something. Okay.

Speaker 3 What's wrong with that? There's no way.

Speaker 3 What's wrong with that is

Speaker 3 he can only afford $800 a month? As a Christian.

Speaker 4 Okay, there we go. That's it.
This is a violation of your values.

Speaker 8 Right.

Speaker 4 You selling your house and moving where you want to move is issue one. If you don't like this condo anymore, great, but you got to have a place to live.

Speaker 4 And if you've already paid this thing off and you're not going to something, I would suggest you hang on to this condo

Speaker 4 because nobody can take it from you if Social Security goes belly up in the next 10 years.

Speaker 4 If Social Security doesn't keep up with inflation, which it hasn't been, if, if, if, if nobody can take your home from you.

Speaker 3 I know, but part of it is social security. I mean, I've got $42,000 coming in per month forty two thousand per month

Speaker 3 yes no per year per year okay i was like i don't know what kind of social security

Speaker 3 so you've got 4200 of income per month you have no debt at all right no you live fairly frugally there's two cars you know i try absolutely

Speaker 3 um and i just part of me really wants to move out of the condo. To where, though?

Speaker 3 To where.

Speaker 3 I'm thinking about senior place.

Speaker 4 Great. That's amazing.
Can you afford that?

Speaker 3 Absolutely. I mean,

Speaker 3 my mom had a place and she just passed away within the year, $1,800 a month. Okay,

Speaker 4 get with a Smart Vestor Pro, sell your home, put the $4.25 you're going to get from it in an account that will earn money to make sure you're, for the next 20 years you can afford this place

Speaker 2 but what do i do about jacob you can't you can't here's the most beautiful part he's he's turning into a grown man and he's in the hvac world he's going to make great money and he gets to figure that out for himself and my fear is you stepping in is actually going to harm him more than it's going to help him when my grandmother when i came home from college and she sat me down and said i had five i think at the time earrings and my hair was all long and she said, I don't like your earrings.

Speaker 3 That's not Jacob, though.

Speaker 4 I know, but I'm just saying, like, my grandmother, who I love, told me she didn't like a thing I was doing.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 4 And I heard her, and I actually made some changes in my life. But that was the extent of the power she held over me.

Speaker 4 Okay. And you're trying to take ownership or even asking yourself, did I do something wrong? Because he's at 18 or 19 wanting to move in with his girlfriend into a cheap apartment.

Speaker 4 I'm going to free you from that. No, you saved his life.

Speaker 3 Okay. Okay.
All right. Thank you.
You've done something amazing. Thank you for your time.

Speaker 4 I mean, you've done something amazing.

Speaker 2 You've instilled character into this and gave him a safe place and showed him what love looked like.

Speaker 2 That is worth far more than you handing him a condo at 19, which no 19-year-old needs handed to them. And somebody to rent somewhere and figure it out.

Speaker 4 A half a million-dollar condo is not going to keep him from

Speaker 4 living with his girlfriend. Maybe you sitting him down and saying, hey, this is a big deal to me.
I want to be heard on this. I'm your grandmother.
And/slash your mom. Don't do this.

Speaker 4 Then he gets to decide what he's going to go do next. But yeah, buying him a house, whatever, sell your condo.
That's great. Make sure you sit down with the Smart Investor Pearl on what to do with

Speaker 4 the cash so that 20 years of living in a residential facility, you're going to be okay. You're always going to have money to take care of yourself.

Speaker 4 That's the greatest gift you can give for him is him not having to come pay your rent the last 10 years of your life. So making sure you're good to go.
That's a gift.

Speaker 4 But man, yeah, be heard on this values thing.

Speaker 3 That's tough.

Speaker 2 Chris is such a sweet, sweet person. If she's taking grandson applications, I'm willing to apply.
My grandma, God rest her soul, here's what she gave us, and we were grateful for it.

Speaker 2 100 bucks at Christmas, 100 bucks on the birthday. That's a huge.
No condos.

Speaker 2 I turned out okay.

Speaker 4 Barely, but I loved it. My grandmother had, I mean, she didn't have the courage.
She was just amazing.

Speaker 3 But she said, I don't like that hair.

Speaker 4 I don't like those earrings. I like this woman.
You need to marry her, which when I was dating my wife, like, that was awesome. That was awesome.

Speaker 2 That wisdom was worth far more.

Speaker 4 But I still, at 19, 20, 25, whatever, I had to go make the next decision. I thought it was the right one.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Handing a nine, I mean, just thinking of me at 19, you hand any 19-year-old any large asset or any large amount of money, they're going to squander it and screw it up.

Speaker 4 He'll sell it within the month.

Speaker 2 Our brains are not developed enough to handle something like that.

Speaker 2 And best case scenario, it destroys your work ethic. Because you're like, well, I was working so hard, so one day I could own a home, and now it's just handed to me.
So who needs work anymore?

Speaker 2 Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr.
John Deloney. Open phones at 888-825-5225.
Paige awaits in Michigan up next.

Speaker 2 What's going on, Paige?

Speaker 3 Hi, thank you so much for taking my call.

Speaker 3 So my question today is, how do I tell my mom that I don't want her to be my financial advisor?

Speaker 2 Ooh, is she literally a financial advisor? That is her profession?

Speaker 3 So for background,

Speaker 3 she is becoming a financial advisor right now. My current financial advisor, she was working for, and he's retiring this year.
So she is taking over for him.

Speaker 4 Very simple.

Speaker 3 Very simple conversation.

Speaker 4 I got you.

Speaker 3 You ready?

Speaker 4 Yes. I need you to just be my mom.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 So the issue with that is actually

Speaker 3 um as i was i was meeting with a financial advisor that actually works right next to her office yesterday and she was leaving work early and um right as i was walking into the other door she was walking out and she was pretty upset that i was um i i another context i have a 529 plan that was set up years ago and i'm i yesterday converted it over to um to start the process of converting it to an ira and she was pretty upset with me when she saw me.

Speaker 4 Okay, but like, if she was a therapist, you wouldn't go to her for therapy.

Speaker 3 Yes. Okay, true.
That's so true.

Speaker 4 And so when she, I want you to tell her, hey, mom, if you were going to graduate school to get a graduate degree in therapy, I would tell all my friends to come see you.

Speaker 4 But I can't have you as my therapist. I need you as my mom.

Speaker 4 And I'm so proud of you for going to get your financial stuff. That's awesome.
But I want you to stay my mom.

Speaker 4 Of course, I'm going to ask you your opinion on stuff, but I need, I want to preserve this relationship.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 3 What do I do if she feels offended by that? Because she

Speaker 3 doesn't have the reasoning number.

Speaker 4 You can't control that.

Speaker 3 Okay. Yes.

Speaker 4 And can I be honest with you? You've probably been having to solve for that your whole life, haven't you?

Speaker 4 Yes, I think so. Yes.
Mom's going to get mad. Don't do this.
Don't say that. Mom's going to get mad.
What you learned as a really young kid is that it was your job

Speaker 4 to take care of the emotional needs of the adults in your life. And that's that's never a kid's job.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 4 And so, if your mom, if you do what's best for you and your mom decides to go off the handle, scream and yell, not talk to you, not invite you to Christmas, that's heartbreaking, and you have to grieve that.

Speaker 4 But that's a choice that she,

Speaker 4 as another adult, made to put conditions on her love for her daughter, which is you will be one of my clients.

Speaker 4 Yep.

Speaker 3 Okay. No, it's so funny.
My husband actually just told me this last night too he's a huge fan of yours smart guy all right do not tell him that you called us

Speaker 4 tell him be like you know what honey you're so smart and and handsome you're right and he's gonna be like oh yeah

Speaker 2 i love it thank you yeah well here's my take too paige i want someone who's unbiased and unclouded and the truth is your mom loves you so much she can't Her judgment will be clouded by her love for you and what she wants for you and what she didn't get to do and what she would have done if if she was your age.

Speaker 2 I just want an old guy who's like, here's the math. Here's what to invest in.
And I go, okay, cool. You know, or an old woman, this is not sexist.
But you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 I want someone so unbiased and so far removed who's looking at my situation from 30,000 feet, not somebody who was, you know, changing my diapers a decade ago.

Speaker 3 Right.

Speaker 2 So there's just, it's just harder

Speaker 2 when it's someone that close to you. So it's not out of that you don't love her or you don't trust her.

Speaker 4 No, it's because you love her and trust her that you want to keep the roles clear.

Speaker 3 Yes, exactly. And I know you guys always say don't mix family and money.
Thanksgiving dinner tastes different. Yes.

Speaker 4 And imagine she moves you in a bunch of funds and those funds, because they're on the market and they're part of a roller coaster system, they go down.

Speaker 4 I don't want that.

Speaker 3 Yeah, right? I don't want you looking at her being like, oh,

Speaker 4 our portfolio was good last month until mom moved it to, right?

Speaker 4 It's just going to protect you. You are long term.

Speaker 3 Perfect. Okay.
Thank you so much.

Speaker 4 Of course.

Speaker 3 I feel like I always need to hear it from another source.

Speaker 2 From an unbiased third party. Yeah, there we go.
That's it.

Speaker 4 George, if my mom worked in concrete,

Speaker 4 I would ask her to come help fix my driveway. My mom was an English professor.

Speaker 4 When it came to, hey, will you help me edit this?

Speaker 3 Of course.

Speaker 4 But that's not a...

Speaker 4 It's not, it's just, does the comic go standard? Does the comic go here?

Speaker 4 Yeah, there's not all this other drama involved. So there's certain jobs.
Man, absolutely.

Speaker 2 My friend was just telling me, so she's selling her house, and her dad just became a real estate agent. He sold zero homes.
Guess who's the real estate agent?

Speaker 4 Guess who's not going to sell their house? Dad.

Speaker 2 And so I'm like, this is a nightmare situation. But she's like, well, I just, I want to help him out.
And I'm like, this is not, this is, this is scary.

Speaker 4 Well, you're choosing, I'm going to, and by the way, you're not helping out as much as you are placating. I would rather him not be sad than we sell our house.

Speaker 4 Exactly. If he chooses to be sad, great.
And here's what's going to happen. He's going to struggle to sell that house, first one, just the way it goes.

Speaker 4 And he's going to start panicking and feeling a little bit shamed. And then he's going to not call back all the time.
And then Thanksgiving dinner is going to be a good thing.

Speaker 2 Oh, that was the other thing she said. Yeah, he's not great at like details and keeping up on stuff and getting back to texts and emails.
I'm like, that's who you want selling that.

Speaker 4 Let him have the privilege of just being your dad.

Speaker 2 yes amen that's all we got to say all right allison is up next in richmond virginia what's your question allison yes so i have a 12-year-old that

Speaker 3 12 and a half that's been watched in and listened to the ramsey show with us and watching her dad and i do our baby steps and she's been saving money because she wants to buy a car in several years um so she has a check-in account and a savings account and we actually went to the bank yesterday um we were going to take a chunk of her savings and move it to a money market but they said that because she's under 18, we can't do that.

Speaker 3 So we wanted to know, should we open a CD or what would you suggest that she's gaining more interest than just a little savings account? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Well, she's making like 0.0 something percent.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Right.

Speaker 2 You could do a,

Speaker 2 as the parent or guardian, you could open a high-yield savings account.

Speaker 4 That's what I would do.

Speaker 2 And designate it as a savings account for the child.

Speaker 2 Okay. So it's just kind of a label on there that it's for the kid.

Speaker 3 Okay. So this, so, okay.
Because we asked about this, you can do a money market, put in your names, and then just give it, turn it over to her when she's 18, but her name couldn't be on it.

Speaker 2 Exactly. You could just transfer it over.
And if you want a great high-yield savings account, usually your brick-and-mortar banks have terrible high-yield savings accounts, terrible rates.

Speaker 2 So you might want to look at an online option. And one that I love and use is from our friends at Fairwinds.
And you've heard of Fairwinds Credit Union Studio.

Speaker 2 They have an awesome high-yield savings account. So you can open that in your name, label it for her, and start stacking away money in there.

Speaker 2 And it's going to make, you know, 10X what you're making in your current bank. And that's what I would do.

Speaker 2 CDs I don't love because the money's locked up and you got to time it perfectly for it to mature, all of that.

Speaker 2 And the rates and high-yield savings accounts are as good as a lot of the CDs out there in accusation.

Speaker 4 Don't lose this. She sounds like an extraordinary 13-year-old.
Very mature. Is that fair?

Speaker 3 Yeah, she is. Okay.

Speaker 4 One thing, a gift you can give her that's not going to feel like a gift in the moment is to remind her through things like this that you are still the parent.

Speaker 4 I like that. Okay.
Because when she goes to buy a car, she's going to save $7,000 to go buy a car. You are going to say you can or cannot buy this car because you're 16.

Speaker 3 Right. Right.

Speaker 4 And I'm not going to let you buy a cool truck that's been dropped with

Speaker 4 right because I'm still your parent. This is a great way to say, hey,

Speaker 4 I'm proud of you. This is your money.
You've earned it, but we're going to put it in this account because it can earn more money for you.

Speaker 2 And I like the 401 Dave plan. Maybe you match what she puts into that and she gets a $14,000 used car four years from now.
Now we're talking.

Speaker 1 Do you want to keep more money in your pocket and not Uncle Sam's? Then listen up.

Speaker 1 There are tax deductions and credits you could maximize before the end of the year by connecting with an experienced tax professional like a Ramsey Trusted Tax Pro.

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Get a trusted tax pro by going to ramseysolutions.com slash tax pro.

Speaker 1 Ramseysolutions.com slash tax pro.

Speaker 2 Buying or selling your home is a big deal. With all the clickbait headlines and conflicting data out there, it's hard to know what's really happening in the housing market.

Speaker 2 So, let's make the trends easy to understand. The median home prices held steady around $424,000.

Speaker 2 In October, about one in five houses saw a price cut, which means buyers might have more room this winter to negotiate and snag a better price.

Speaker 2 Mortgage rates dipped slightly to about 5.5% in October, giving some buyers breathing room.

Speaker 2 But since rates are unpredictable, the best time to buy is when you're financially ready, not when rates drop. Do not try to time the market in that way.

Speaker 2 So if you want to learn more about housing market trends and get some free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, go to ramseysolutions.com slash market or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or watching on YouTube.

Speaker 2 Victoria is in Temple, Texas, up next. What's going on, Victoria?

Speaker 3 Hey, thanks.

Speaker 3 So, I,

Speaker 3 yeah, so

Speaker 3 my husband and I have no consumer debt, but we're about to close probably in January on our house, which will be about 260 after the down payment, maybe a little bit less because we're stacking it right now with my income.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 3 Right now, I work, it's called PRN. It's as needed, so it works because I have two young kids.
I have a two and a half-year-old and a 10-month-old.

Speaker 3 So right now, though, we're looking at, well, what if I took, there's a full-time nights position coming up. I work social work in the ER usually.

Speaker 3 There's a full-time nights position coming up in the spring. So we're looking at, well, what if I took that and we just worked really hard for a season in order to pay it off?

Speaker 3 Like we could pay our house off in about three and a half years.

Speaker 3 And so.

Speaker 2 What's stressing you out about this house? Why the aggressive nature?

Speaker 3 Well, that's the thing, and that's kind of why I'm, you know,

Speaker 3 trying to get some advice is because it's not necessarily stressing us out. We have a lot of peace with where we're at right now.
But the idea of looking forward and seeing,

Speaker 3 you know, a short sprint and then being at the end of it and being totally free,

Speaker 3 which is huge to us, being able to do

Speaker 3 what we need to do, want to do if we feel called to go somewhere else, do something else, like all that kind of freedom is just really appealing to us. So

Speaker 2 I don't want to. You're talking to two guys who are obsessed with not owing people money.

Speaker 4 So I feel the exact same pain. It just know that it comes at a cost.

Speaker 4 And it does, it wears you out around the edges.

Speaker 2 In my brain, I'm going, well, right now with a two and a half year old and a 10-month-old, this is when they need you the most. And so could we delay this aggressive

Speaker 2 take until maybe when they're three and five? Okay, now life is a little easier. You can afford to take a little more sacrifice.
That's a personal decision.

Speaker 2 I'm just looking at the variables as a dad with two young ones like you.

Speaker 2 It would be a really hard season for me to sacrifice right now versus when they're a little bit older.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 I kind of look at it two different ways. Like, I think it would be a different sacrifice at that point.
It is. I kind of look at it.
I'm like, they're not really going to remember this time.

Speaker 3 I mean, I'm there, and my mom watches them when I'm not home.

Speaker 4 Their nervous system will. Their nervous system will.

Speaker 4 Yeah. Yeah.
But, but again, you have the right word.

Speaker 4 Any path you take is a sacrifice, and any path you take comes with trade-offs.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So if we play this out where you don't make this sacrifice, how long will it take to pay off the mortgage if you just make extra payments with your current income?

Speaker 3 What's that trajectory?

Speaker 3 That would be more like

Speaker 4 five years?

Speaker 3 I think when I looked at it, no, it's more like maybe eight.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 2 And then let's also fast forward, you guys will be making more money two years from now, four years from now than you are today, correct?

Speaker 2 Probably. Or is there a world where you want to stay home for a season? Or are you wanting to continue to?

Speaker 3 I mean, my long-term goal is to be home.

Speaker 3 I was home for the first about year and a half of my son's life and went back to work actually right before I had my second to try to stack up cash for this down payment. Okay.

Speaker 3 And so, you know, I want to eventually be home. And that's part of it too, is like at that point, I could just be home and not have this.

Speaker 3 Let me ask you.

Speaker 4 I want to ask George a question on your behalf, okay?

Speaker 4 So, so this mortgage you're taking out is 260?

Speaker 3 Yeah, at tops after down payment.

Speaker 4 All right, so let's say after down payment, for easy math, let's say 250, okay? That's what y'all come in at. George, could they take one year and just go B A N A N A S,

Speaker 4 get it down to where they owe $125,000, and then go recast that to where their payment is $125,000, basically their existing mortgage, which keeps all the interest the same, everything's the same, except now your monthly payment just plummets so that you could then stay home and you have a $125,000 mortgage.

Speaker 2 I like that plan. What does your husband make?

Speaker 3 He's actually starting a new job this week where he'll be making $80,000. His take home after all the, I calculated the whole thing.
It should be about

Speaker 3 $2,700 a paycheck.

Speaker 2 Per paycheck. Okay.
And then what are you making right now?

Speaker 3 Well, right now I make $1,000 to $3,000 a month because I work, you know, I pick up shifts. That's kind of part-time.

Speaker 3 This job, my take-home after, you know, retirement and all that would be maybe around six ish oh wow so let me throw um

Speaker 4 a thing that a variable in here that i always recommend to brand new parents okay

Speaker 4 make six month plans make three month plans

Speaker 4 because what happens sometimes is people make four-year commitments and they have a 10-month old

Speaker 4 And then in six months, you absolutely hate every second of your life waking up and being away from this barely one-year-old kid.

Speaker 4 And you feel trapped because, quote unquote, we made a deal.

Speaker 4 And so what if y'all say, we're going to do it, try this plan out, but we have it already on the calendar.

Speaker 4 We already have a half-day retreat planned with just the two of us to say, do we still like each other? Do we still, is our, are we still like hanging out with each other?

Speaker 4 Do we still like going to bed at the same time? Do we still, does our intimacy life, are we still going the way we want to be? Do we have the life that we want to have right this second?

Speaker 4 And is the sacrifice still worth it? And that gives both of you permission to say, ugh, I hate what we're doing. To go, cool, pull the plug.
You get what I'm saying? That way you don't feel trapped.

Speaker 3 Yeah. At first when we started talking about it, like we were like, no, we're not doing that.
That's crazy. And then as we've talked about it more, we're like, well, what if we try it?

Speaker 3 And then we definitely have that understanding together of like, well, if we do this, not committing to more than like a year. And if we feel good about it, is at that point keep going.

Speaker 3 But if not, then we stop.

Speaker 3 Or even if something sooner comes up, because that's the great thing about my job now is I have that freedom to work when it works for us and not work when it doesn't work for us and and make no mistake what you're doing is like clinically like technically crazy

Speaker 4 right it is

Speaker 4 it's abnormal it's outside of the normal and it could change everything for the rest of your life but if y'all set the foundation of your marriage on fire to get to this thing then when you get there you cross that finish line you got nothing left to give or you look back and realize we don't like each other We don't like the parents we've become.

Speaker 4 We haven't been intimate in five years. Like it will come at a cost.
And so it's constantly going back and checking in. The reason I can't tell you don't do this is it's exactly what I did.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 And I don't regret it, but I wish my wife and I had had better conversations on the front end. And we had a lot.
And I'm glad that we both, I'm glad that we did it.

Speaker 4 So it's both in, but just go in very wide-eyed that this is going to come at a cost.

Speaker 3 Yeah, well, definitely do. And that's why I'm trying to seek wisdom is I know like, you know, just the night schedule and switching back to days to be with them on my days off.

Speaker 3 And like, you know, that just would be a lot.

Speaker 3 It will be. It's a lot alone.
And then also my kids. Right.
But I am a lot.

Speaker 4 When I owe somebody money, I just don't sleep as well. And I know because I've tracked it, right? I just don't, it just weighs on me.
And so everybody's a little bit different there.

Speaker 4 But man, I always tell folks to go, if you can do it in two years, then just hit the gas. And you're looking at doubling that to four years.

Speaker 2 What's the mortgage payment going to be likely?

Speaker 3 I think it'll be around 18 or 19. Depends on what the interest rate comes to.
Okay.

Speaker 2 It sounds like your husband could cover that

Speaker 2 if he was just his income.

Speaker 3 Yeah, we designed our life so that if I really wanted to be home, I could be. Good.

Speaker 2 That's what I was going to tell. Same page, same team.
I didn't want you to craft a life where you both have to work full-time and you have no options. No, no, no, no.

Speaker 3 So the fact that you did this. I think we crafted this to be very flexible.

Speaker 2 Well, I think you have options options then. And I think you'll know pretty quickly if it's working for the family, if it's working for you, if you wanted to try it for a season.

Speaker 2 That might be what I would do is just test it out. My wife did this.
She came back to work after she had a baby. Four months later, she was like, I need to be home.
But at least we knew.

Speaker 2 You know, you know that you know once you've you've tried it out. So I would encourage you to try it out.
And the good news is it's not a sin.

Speaker 2 If you pay it off in five years instead of three, you're still so far ahead of America. It's mind-blowing.

Speaker 2 I'm just so proud of you guys for pre-deciding that you don't want to carry this mortgage for 15, 30 years.

Speaker 4 Commit to a short-term goal. Hit it, reevaluate.

Speaker 1 It's one of the best times of the year, but it's also the time of year when people let their money get totally out of control. Everywhere you look, it's just buy, buy, buy.

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Speaker 2 Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Open phones at 888-825-5225.
Today's question of the day is sponsored by YReFi.

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Speaker 4 All right, today's question comes from Nathan in Georgia. Nathan writes, I'm in college and I'm trying to earn a degree that will make me the most money in the quickest amount of time.

Speaker 4 Yes, don't like that. I don't enjoy the field I'm studying, but my goal is to chase money and then figure out what I want to do after graduation.
I really don't like that.

Speaker 4 Am I wrong to chase money instead of career satisfaction? yes yes yes and then more yes and then yes after that

Speaker 2 wow okay i'm trying i'm trying to parse this earn the degree that will make me the most money in the quickest amount of time

Speaker 2 what does that even mean

Speaker 2 so that the roi on this degree so that means like you're gonna get into med school and become a doctor or you're gonna work it's the quickest amount of time

Speaker 2 and so so it's just whatever i can do in a four-year degree that will roi with the highest paying job on the other side. Correct.
And then

Speaker 2 I will figure out what I want to do after graduation. So there's no real career on the other side other than whatever pays the most.
Yes. You can do that.

Speaker 4 You can, but

Speaker 4 it will not work out long term. And so I know I'm in the minority on this, and I know I'm biased because I worked in colleges for years.

Speaker 4 The degree you get, the skill you learn how to do, the trade you learn, whether you're learning the trade of communication, you're learning the trade of

Speaker 4 counseling, you're learning the trade of how to work in a business. That is important.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 so is

Speaker 4 if you have to have a degree with 128 hours in it, that means you're going to have multiple professors over the course of your

Speaker 4 time. That means you're learning how to operate with 30 or 40 different bosses.
What does this boss want in that paper versus what this boss wants? What is this one?

Speaker 4 You're also learning to work with your classmates. You're also learning to navigate and learn how to do quote-unquote life, how to pay your bills, how to to be on time.

Speaker 4 And so to just distill down education into a transaction,

Speaker 4 I'm morally opposed to that. And I think we've reduced it to

Speaker 4 high schools are struggling with this. I just need this grade so I can get this test.

Speaker 4 And what we've done is create a system where the only thing that matters is not what you have learned or know, but what does that end report card say?

Speaker 4 And we're finding that there is more A's than ever. And we're falling off a cliff in terms of, oh, you don't know how to to do math.
You don't know how to write, right?

Speaker 4 You don't know how to think on your own. And so if you reduce this education to quickest this, quickest that, most ROI,

Speaker 4 you're going to run into a mess. Okay, so that's number one.
Number two, don't hear me say that

Speaker 4 what you get a major in doesn't matter. It absolutely does.
And there's a bunch of insane majors out there that are not a good use of your time and money. So be thoughtful about that.

Speaker 4 The next bigger thing here is, am I wrong to chase money instead of career satisfaction? Yes. The number three on our study of millionaires, the number three was teachers.

Speaker 4 If you pursue something you love and that you become good at over time and you are helping people, you have to make real life choices about the math problem that is your life.

Speaker 4 And what I love about teachers being number three is my wife was a teacher. She knew what this job was going to pay.

Speaker 4 And so she made choices on her undergraduate degree and she made choices that her first car she bought was a Corolla. And she thought it was going to go for 25 years.

Speaker 4 I guarantee that car is still driving somewhere. She made peace with the Corolla life.
She made peace with this is what I'm going to do. And so this is what I want to have.

Speaker 4 And she would have fallen right in line with other teachers that you become a millionaire over time because you make choices about your lifestyle, right?

Speaker 4 But if you chase money, it will never end well. It just won't end well.

Speaker 2 It'll never be enough.

Speaker 2 And if you get to some certain goal, the goalpost will just move and you'll be going, you'll be calling us saying, saying, hey, I make $300,000 doing medical device sales and I hate it.

Speaker 2 Can I go back to school for the thing I love? I'm like, well, dude, just do that now. Do that now.
Or don't go to school at all.

Speaker 2 If you just want to go make a bunch of money, go start a landscaping company and go bust your butt and make six figures the first year. You can do that too.
This is America. You have the choice.

Speaker 2 But chasing money in and of itself is a terrible goal. Instead, go, what do I love to do? What can I get really good at?

Speaker 3 And the money helping.

Speaker 4 That to me is the magic question.

Speaker 2 That's a sustainable form.

Speaker 4 That's what never comes up in

Speaker 4 because

Speaker 4 my whole job trajectory has been the one thing I'm pretty good at is sitting behind closed doors and hurting people. I did that as a dean of students.
I did that as a crisis responder.

Speaker 4 Now I do that as a YouTuber. And one day this will all go away and I'll.
The job will change again.

Speaker 4 It will change again. But my identity is separate from, it has to be from, a job title.
The world's too crazy. It's moving too fast.
Your job titles are going to change.

Speaker 4 The job we have right now did not exist when I graduated. And so chasing money or chasing an I got to get this degree so I can go as fast as I can.
Man, who knows where I would be right now?

Speaker 4 I would have fallen off a cliff. But get real good at the thing that you do.
Right.

Speaker 4 You are really good at distilling down complex information and helping people. That would be good across a number of fields.
It just happens to be this one right now.

Speaker 4 What is the thing you're really good at and what lights you up? And then go chase that.

Speaker 2 And by the way, people don't want to do business with someone who they know is just chasing money. They can smell the inauthenticity four miles away.

Speaker 2 And so you will actually suffer financially if you're just plain goal is to chase money. Nobody wants to do that when you're desperate for the sale to make another buck.
That's right.

Speaker 2 So I hope that helps, Nathan. Hope you're listening out there.
Hope all young people listen to this conversation because this could spare you a lot of heartache.

Speaker 2 All right, Savannah is in Montgomery, Alabama. What's going on, Savannah?

Speaker 3 Hey, so I am looking to get some advice on a repossession situation that happened after a divorce,

Speaker 3 and

Speaker 3 I'm stuck paying for it.

Speaker 4 Oh, man.

Speaker 4 So

Speaker 4 is your divorce finalized?

Speaker 3 Yes, it's been finalized. The vehicle was awarded to him in the divorce.

Speaker 3 I've tried to communicate with the loan company. They don't care, honestly, because my name is on the loan as well.

Speaker 3 After the divorce, he just didn't pay the truck, and it got repoed back in June or July, I believe.

Speaker 3 They've since auctioned the vehicle off,

Speaker 3 and now they've sent me a letter for the remaining balance.

Speaker 2 The deficiency amount. How much is that?

Speaker 3 $7,000, or I'm sorry, the whole balance is $12,714.30.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 4 Have you called your attorney to circle back?

Speaker 3 I have not.

Speaker 3 What did the divorce decree say? No longer being recorded.

Speaker 3 I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 What did the divorce decree say?

Speaker 3 So whatever was in his possession at the time of the divorce was awarded to him, which is the

Speaker 3 with the vehicle.

Speaker 2 Did it say he was responsible for the car payments or that you were?

Speaker 3 Well, that it said so that the loan was in both of our names, and it said my debt was to be to me and his debt was to be to him. Okay.

Speaker 3 And I had asked them about this, you know, before, and they just told me, you know, it's got my name on it. I have to deal with it.

Speaker 2 No, legally, they don't, the lender doesn't care about the decree, but it just, you know, if you could take legal action against them, if you wanted to pursue that, I think the easiest route to go is just try to settle because you are legally responsible for it.

Speaker 2 And so if you can settle for instead of 12, 7, if you can come up with five or six and they can call it paid off, I would do that.

Speaker 3 So they did send me a letter. That's what I got this week telling me that they would settle for $7,628.58.

Speaker 3 Perfect.

Speaker 2 Okay, how fast could you save that up if you just worked your tail off and did nothing else but save up to get this car out of your life?

Speaker 3 I mean, I don't know.

Speaker 3 On the letter date, they're giving me 36 months to pay that off. I don't know if that's going to include interest or what.

Speaker 2 It may have some fees on there. You can maybe be able to negotiate those off if you can say, hey, I'm going to pay you this money in a year, but I need you to remove all these extra fees.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 3 So, I mean, I'm a single mom, and I work five full days a week, and then the weekends that I don't have my kids,

Speaker 3 I work those weekends as well.

Speaker 3 Do you have any other debts right now?

Speaker 2 I don't.

Speaker 3 I have my house.

Speaker 2 Okay, just a house.

Speaker 3 I will charge you with my guns towards this.

Speaker 4 Would this be a case of going to a credit union and getting a loan and getting this thing knocked out?

Speaker 2 If you could do that,

Speaker 3 I would, ideally, that would be great. But, I mean, when he left me, he destroyed everything.

Speaker 2 Yeah, your credits tanked because of the reason.

Speaker 3 It's like 400, probably. Yeah,

Speaker 4 you might go to a credit union and take the divorce decree and explain it, and they may work with you because you're in a different situation, especially if you bring your work, your current hours that you're working right now.

Speaker 4 They may give you that loan knowing there's an extenuating circumstance, but maybe not.

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Speaker 2 Our scripture of the day, Isaiah 48, 17. I am the Lord your God, who teaches you what is best for you, who directs you in the way you should go.
Eddie Vetter said, life moves fast.

Speaker 2 As much as you can learn from your story, you have to move forward.

Speaker 2 Chip is in Dallas, Texas up next. What's going on, Chip?

Speaker 8 Well, get straight to the point, guys.

Speaker 8 My

Speaker 8 father and I are in

Speaker 8 business together. I've got two other brothers and one sister.
They don't participate in the business and never have.

Speaker 8 My parents are getting a little bit older, and

Speaker 8 I am worried about if something happens to them where this leaves me for my business, which I've built. My father is a hands-off partner.

Speaker 8 And my main concern is I have a good relationship with my siblings, but

Speaker 8 when stuff happens, stuff happens.

Speaker 8 So in this case, it's a substantial business, but also we own the real estate. So I'm trying to figure out, is it something that I should try to pursue

Speaker 8 buying them out? I don't know if I could buy them out using funds from the business.

Speaker 8 And again, I don't know.

Speaker 4 How much is he invested in for?

Speaker 8 So we are, so technically it's my mother's 25%, my father's 25%, I'm 25%, and my wife is 25%.

Speaker 8 Let's just say my parents are 50%.

Speaker 4 What are they in for, though?

Speaker 8 Oh, money-wise, $3.5 million is total what their share would be worth.

Speaker 4 And your concern is that they pass away suddenly, and then your siblings come wanting their piece of that $3.5 million?

Speaker 8 Yes. I've talked to my father about it.
He says that we have,

Speaker 8 I guess, laid it out equally. But my problem is, is that I don't know about the other assets.
If it's going to come into

Speaker 8 the point, let's just say that if I want to take this business, am I going to have to buy out my siblings? And

Speaker 4 is your dad saying, no, no, no, I've got 3.5 for one sibling and 3.5 for the other?

Speaker 3 Is that what he was saying?

Speaker 8 Oh, no, no, no, no. What he has, like I'd say, to buy him out of this business is 3.5

Speaker 8 million, like what I'd have to pay to get him and my mom

Speaker 8 out. That's what I would value it at.
Of course, we haven't had a valuation the past two years.

Speaker 2 Yeah, what is the business worth?

Speaker 8 So the business itself is probably worth about a million and a half. The real estate.

Speaker 8 The real estate was worth two. It's probably worth more like three, maybe three and a half now.
So it could be more than three and a half total.

Speaker 3 And what is it cash flow?

Speaker 8 Cash flow, so the only people that take, you know, of these partners that take salaries is my wife and I.

Speaker 8 And we each take about $100,000 and then we do disbursements at the end of the year. But so cash flow after paying our salaries is about $500.

Speaker 2 Okay. And you're saying that $3.5 million, they would agree that's a, that's fair amongst all parties as far as about

Speaker 8 the I'm not not saying that I think that if I approach them possibly

Speaker 4 I think if you I think if you're making a net after expenses of $500,000 a year your valuation is pretty high

Speaker 8 yes I think what it is is it's a reoccurring income and I don't want to get into too much details but it is a kind of like a subscription based if you will so it's kind of like you have people locked in and then you have long-term customers but

Speaker 3 I let's just say

Speaker 4 go ahead. But I mean, even I mean, you're talking about 7X, your net cash flow, right?

Speaker 4 Oh,

Speaker 8 the three, again, the three and a half is including real estate. Okay.

Speaker 3 Got it. So let's just pretend it's three and a half.

Speaker 2 Let's just walk this through an example, and I'll tell you what I would do, what Dave Ramsey would do. We're not doing debt, and you obviously don't have the money upfront to pay for this, correct?

Speaker 8 No, no. And again, not to say that he would want it all up front, but

Speaker 2 I'd be like, but would they be willing to go, all right, we'll do 350K for 10 years is what you're going to pay us from this business?

Speaker 8 I think so.

Speaker 8 I don't know they are getting older, so not trying to be morbid, but I would say that 10 years may be a stretch, truthfully, unfortunately.

Speaker 2 Well, I think you just start playing with the numbers here and go, okay, here's what we could comfortably do based on the actual revenue of the business to go, all right, we can do 400,000 over seven years.

Speaker 4 I would prefer it to be a percentage of your profit.

Speaker 3 I agree. I agree.

Speaker 4 And my hope would be that y'all do that and every year y'all can reconcile. And so maybe you get down to where, let's say they last six years.

Speaker 8 And then at the end, I just would have to pay the difference to siblings.

Speaker 4 You would pay it to a trust that would be dispersed to the siblings. That's right.
At the agreed upon rate.

Speaker 2 And I would involve a lot of professionals at this point. I would not do handshake agreements.

Speaker 2 I would have a business valuation expert, a CPA, and a state attorney get all this in writing so that everyone's on the same page, siblings included.

Speaker 8 And that's

Speaker 8 my thing. I've been trying to work on this the past three or four years.
And again, my father's like, don't worry about it. Don't worry about it.
And he's a bare man.

Speaker 8 I'm not thinking anything's going to happen shady like that. But again, I'm just worried about the sibling.

Speaker 2 It's a relational drama outside of this.

Speaker 4 Have you talked to your siblings to tell them that you're working on it?

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 8 one brother, oldest brother, doesn't have any care. He's like, I don't care about it.
He's like, I'll sign over, whatever. So anything that if I did have to pay him, he wouldn't want a payment.

Speaker 8 He's done pretty well in life. I guess this isn't needed for him.

Speaker 2 I would make sure you get that in writing.

Speaker 3 Seven years from now, his wife may really want that.

Speaker 8 No, I agree. I agree.
That's what I don't see that being a problem. The other two, again, they're very nice people, but

Speaker 8 when stuff happens and they might say, oh, well, this is worth three and a half or whatever. And, you know, our portion is worth this.
And that's what I'm worried about.

Speaker 8 They have shown no interest in the business. They don't support, they never supported the idea

Speaker 8 or supported real estate in general. Sure.

Speaker 4 A perfect world is you sit down with your dad and say, I'd like to make you a $3.5 million offer.

Speaker 4 Again, after a real evaluation, maybe two that you take the average of, a real evaluation that you offer that to him.

Speaker 4 And he says, no chance, I'll sell this to you for a million dollars.

Speaker 3 Yeah, well, I love that.

Speaker 4 Or for one point, whatever. And he may say, great, cool, but he may say, I'm not taking that much money.

Speaker 4 We're going to sign an agreement here, and then it's going to be based off net profit over the next 10 years. That way, there's no debt.

Speaker 4 If the business goes in the hole, then you don't owe any money that year. Yeah.

Speaker 4 But if you sign a note to $400,000 a year, then you're locked into a payment.

Speaker 8 Oh, yeah. No, and I don't like payments.
The only thing that we owe is a small mortgage on our home. So, again, we've been following Dave.

Speaker 8 And that's my main concern because I know that I could approach an SBA loan for something like this. I just don't want to.

Speaker 3 Yeah,

Speaker 2 when you introduce risks, it's going to add pressure and stress to everything. And so that's the one thing I don't do is do not touch debt to go into this plan.

Speaker 2 And I like the idea of a percentage of profits over time. And so I hope that you guys can come to an agreement on what's fair and equitable for all parties.

Speaker 2 And you avoid the drama of the siblings being involved. Make it very clear what they would get when mom and dad pass.
Here's how this is going to go down.

Speaker 4 And I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I'm going to be.

Speaker 4 If you have four siblings, and one of those siblings had a really tight relationship with mom and dad, so much so that they invested a ton of money together.

Speaker 4 They were silent partners in a business together. I promise you there is already a little bit of golden child syndrome.
Oh, yeah, sure. Chip always gets fill in the blank.

Speaker 4 And so make no mistake, you are clearly a man of character trying to set this thing up so that you preserve your relationships over time.

Speaker 4 I would expect mathematically that at least one of your siblings, if not two, bundle up and try to start a fight after your parents pass. It wasn't fair.
They didn't talk to us.

Speaker 4 He got more than whatever the thing will be. I hope that's not the case.

Speaker 4 But when you're talking millions, it almost always is. And so just be ready for that.

Speaker 2 I've rarely seen one of these just go perfectly smooth and everyone's happy and nobody's upset and everyone thought it was fair. That's right.

Speaker 2 And so the best thing you can do is get ahead of it, talk about it so much they're sick of you talking about it to where it's like, hey, I'm going to send you that email once a year about here's the agreement, here's the estate plan.

Speaker 2 And even Dave Ramsey does this with his own family. Every year they say come to Jesus.
If Dave dies meeting, here's what's going to happen with the estate. And so there's no questions.
That's right.

Speaker 2 There will not be any arguments to be had because there's nothing to argue about.

Speaker 4 Yeah, just, it's easy to say, I don't care about that. I I don't need that money.
And then you find out, wait, I was going to get a million dollars? Yeah, now that conversation changes.

Speaker 2 That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.