"Should I Open Up A Secret Bank Account to Protect Myself?"

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Normal is broke, and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life from the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio.
This is the Ramsey Show.

Thanks for joining us. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour, my daughter.
She's my co-host today.

Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Sadie is in Vancouver. Hi, Sadie.
How are you?

Good. How are you? Better than I deserve.
How can we help?

A bit of an odd question. I'm wondering if I should open up a secret bank account without my husband knowing in case of an emergency.

Hmm. What What kind of emergencies do you see happening?

Sorry, I'm pretty nervous.

We overspend

a lot each month and

I'm really trying to

like keep our

keep our payments down on things but

most of our overspending comes from him

and we have a difficult time talking about finances. I mean, we're getting better at it, but it's still

not where it needs to be at all. For example, two months ago, we overspent by $3,500, and last month was $2,500.

Where's this money coming from?

Well, it's all on credit cards right now. Okay.

How long have you been married, huh?

Ten years. Okay.

Okay.

There's never a situation where lying and deception

solves a problem.

All that is is avoiding the problem.

Hold on, hold on. All that does is avoid the problem.

That does not fix your situation.

Okay. It's going to make it worse instead.
So I'm not going to tell you to do this because it's not good for you. I'm going to encourage you instead to head straight into the situation.

Wide open.

I want you to sit down with a marriage counselor, and I want you to have an absolute righteous anger fit.

Your husband is misbehaving unbelievably.

And it's terrifying you.

Yeah. And I want you to do something about it.

Not hide him, not hide money from him.

We are

in marriage counseling, but we've only had a couple of sessions so so far. Yeah.

Yeah. This is not working.

This is an emergency. Tell the marriage counselor that the house is on fire and we're going to die if we don't fix the fire.
We can't just sit around and discuss our potty training as children.

We've got to deal with this misbehavior today.

Yeah.

Big time.

Big time.

Rachel and I can both hear the terror in your voice.

Yeah. And I mean, this doesn't fix the problem, but to this thought, I'm thinking, if I am you protecting some level of something,

and it wouldn't be a secret account, but you would tell him, I'm, I, because we do say don't separate your finances when you're married, except for, and we do have some exceptions to that.

And so, Sadie, this would be one of them for me.

If I were you, and you would have to tell him, again, it's not in secret, but I'm opening up a separate checking account in my name because I don't feel safe financially with you it feels irresponsible i don't know what to do and if we don't fix this this is i mean these are things that end marriages sadie and i don't want that for you but it's a reflection of who he is and that makes me that makes me nervous and it makes me nervous that you can't talk to him about it you know it's one thing if he's if he obviously if he's obviously very grieved by you know what i don't know i'm just making this up that he has like a spending addiction or something and he knows the problem he sees the problem you guys are working through the problem but it sounds like he won't even work through the problem because you can't even talk to him about it which which gives me a red flag.

Yeah, well, yeah, he has like there's things that he's going through that we're also working on together. So, it's a lot of times it seems like when I want to have

what does that mean? That was vague. What are you saying?

Things that he's going through, probably addiction.

Um,

I don't, I wouldn't, I don't know if it would classify it as an addiction. Um, he used to have a drinking problem that got really bad, but I think I like

I caught it early enough that he started working on that. So he's doing a lot better, like a lot better.

But it does,

you know, if he has a slip up one day, then it means that spending in other areas goes up as well.

And it's usually things like eating out and

video games.

Yeah.

What I'm hearing is a very immature, very irresponsible little boy, and you've been trying to be his mommy for 10 freaking years, and you're really tired.

Yeah. Yeah.

And I don't think you're going to last much longer if he doesn't turn this around.

So I think you need to have a really blunt, in-your-face discussion with your marriage counselor and go, I don't have a lot left in my tank. I'm about done with this guy.

Okay. He's going to have to get his crap together really quick.
Do you you work, Sadie? Where's the income coming from?

It's all from him, and then I get a child tax benefit because we have three kids. Okay.
But you're not working outside the home?

No.

Okay.

All right.

Well, I think you've got to start thinking about

making this as big a deal as it is. But no,

we're not going to tell you to open a secret account.

I'm with Rachel, though, if you want to open your your own account and put half the dadgum money in that account and just tell him you're doing it and he can't have it,

you know, and until we get until we get you

until you start behaving, you know, because this is just out of control. I'm so sorry, honey.
Well, I mean, he's

he obviously has a lot, a lot to work on. And I don't, and I, the language of which obviously we're not in the situation of the slip up and this and that, I think things are more serious

than you're probably giving weight to, Sadie, or probably you're feeling and maybe not saying, but there's

a lot of dysfunction and red flags. And for his sake, wanting healing and wholeness, right?

Like a lot of that's coming from somewhere. That pain is manifesting and

going out, you know, every direction for him. And so figuring that out.
But in the meantime, you and your kids,

yeah, financially to keep you safe, because you want to keep the lights on, right? And you just continue to dig deeper and credit cards. You keep it on the table.

And where you can control is cutting up the credit cards, getting all the credit cards out, you guys together, cutting everything up, you know, stopping access points.

Now, could he go apply for something in his own right and secret? Sure. But you can't control that.
What can you do today?

And as much as you can figure out where there is money for him to outsource, like stop it, you know, where it begins.

But I'm so, I'm so sorry, Sadie.

This is deteriorating before your very eyes, and we may see it more clearly than you do in the sense that

I don't think we're overreacting, hon. I think you're underreacting.
And so I'm telling you.

That's so overwhelming, you know, not working, having the three kids, and thinking, what's my exit plan if this were the case? I mean, that is so scary and overwhelming to even think about.

But those are probably discussions. If you have good friends,

find community and start thinking through Sadie for your life. But my prayer is that you guys heal this and that He finds healing in His own work

for your sake, because I'm so, so sorry.

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Vicki is in Savannah. Hi, Vicki.
How can we help? Hi, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

So our question is,

we're a little bit confused on what my husband and I are a little bit confused on what our next steps are because there are so many moving parts.

We currently have a home that we,

so we lived in Tennessee, and we ended up moving to

South Carolina. I'm just above the border of Savannah.

And we moved to live with my dad to save some money to buy a house because when we we were ready to buy a house, we finally paid back all of our student loans.

And it was 2021 and then everything skyrocketed. So we couldn't get ahead of it.
So my dad was very nice

and said, okay, you move in with us. But before we moved in, we had signed on a new built home.
So before we moved to where we live now, we signed on a new built home

and then moved to my dad and saved some money, but we didn't realize that the area was a little bit expensive, definitely more expensive than Tennessee.

But, you know, we were great. We could could save the money.
And during that time, my dad had a mini stroke, so

we needed to stay and we have to see him because he's not married or anything like that. And he's the only person we have for the kids.
My husband's family is in a different country, things like that.

So

we then moved into our house now, which was $4.53 at the time, and we ended up putting $67,000 down. That's That's the only thing we could save.
But when we signed, it took about a year to build.

And when we closed, it ended up closing at 8% interest, which was the highest interest rate. So we had to buy it down like a little bit, but we've been struggling ever since.

Since then, we have four kids, four and under.

All of them are developmentally delayed, and they all have so many services.

Two of them are already on the spectrum.

And then

our current mortgage is $373

at 7% interest. My husband makes $132.
I have a three-month-old baby, and I was supposed to be a stay-at-home mom, but I went back to work.

And my husband works three jobs right now. He's a data analyst, and he works, he's a tennis coach on weekends, and he works Kroger at night to try to get some grocery bills down.

We're not sure what to do. We know we have to sell the house, and we've tried selling the house twice already, and it's not selling.

I was pregnant with my third at the time, and then I got too far along

and had to take it off. And then I was pregnant with my fourth, and it was on for four or five months, and I got too far along, had to take it off.

We're not sure what to do. And now we're having an issue where, you know, behind us is unincorporated land and they're shooting their guns

into our neighborhood and it finally hit a fence in a house. And it's been on the news already.

And we can't let our our four children out in the front because when we bought the house, it was the beginning of the neighborhood. And now that they've built in the neighborhood, it's a main road.

So every time we're out there, one of them gets hit. And obviously, I said they're on the spectrum.
So I can't really tell them to

like it's it's difficult to teach them. So, I mean, they're learning, they're there, you know, but we're really on it.
Um,

and we're not quite sure what to do because the homes for rent here are, you know,

renting is just selling money away. We know that.
Um, we know that we can only afford like a 300,000, but that doesn't exist here. And there's

a sick fee. Stop, stop.
I'm sorry. It's okay.
It's okay. That's okay.

All right.

So, what you're starting to do is you're starting to use language that says there's no way out, and that's simply not true.

Okay.

You can't make a statement about South Carolina and Savannah, Georgia area that says there's no $300,000 houses. That's not a true statement.

There might not be one you want to live in, but there are $300,000 houses.

Yeah, we have looked at some.

Yeah, so

you have to sell this house,

and you have to remain not pregnant long enough to sell this house.

You can't have any more kids. You've got to get out of this house.
Yeah.

Okay. Two times you tried to sell the house and you were pregnant and that's what stopped it.
And your story, if I heard your story right.

Okay.

And so we're going to have to start planning some very making some very clear decisions.

And you've got a lot of, like you said, a lot of variables. There's a lot of things coming at you that are draining the gas out of your tank, the fuel out of your tank.

You have your hands full, kiddo.

I mean, what you described, in a perfect world, if all the finances were in really good shape with the kids situation you've got, with you working on spectrum stuff and you're working on small babies and everything else, you are absolutely overwhelmed just with that.

A normal human would be, okay?

And then let's go ahead and have a few bullet rounds come past your house. That always helps, you know.

And then let's add to that the fact that this whole financial stress thing is a mess and it's a mistake, and you know, you shouldn't have done it, and you feel bad about doing it every time you think about it.

And so, you pile these things up these things, and pile these things and pile these things, and then the situation just becomes

you start, your brain starts to tell you that you can't get out, that you're stuck, and it's wrong. You can get out.
So, we're going to put the house on the market tomorrow.

Get on the web, jump on Ramsey Solutions, find a Ramsey trusted real estate agent, and put a sign in the yard tomorrow.

Now.

Okay. We have been, I'm sorry, we've been looking at homes on the outskirts.
Okay. But the homes on the outskirts,

for lack of a better term, are like the ghetto. Like the schools don't offer the services that all of my children need.
And if we move anywhere else, there's waitlists.

There is no scenario that you can stay in this house and have a good life.

No, yeah. We're like

we have to solve for it, not find reasons it can't be done. Okay.

You haven't found the solution yet. I understand that.
But that doesn't mean there's not one out there. Yeah.

We thought of another of a solution.

They're still building in our neighborhood currently.

And we thought about selling this house, but putting money down on a new build in the back of the community. But those are still, I mean, the cheapest one we found was $465.

You can't afford to live there.

Yeah. It's killing you.

Why would you sign up for more pain?

You can't live in that neighborhood. You can't afford it.

You need to move to something that you can afford and get your life back.

Because listen, if your payments were under control, your husband wasn't working six jobs, you weren't trying to pick up a job, and all you had to deal with was your children, the situation with your children, that's more than anybody ought to say grace over without all the other stuff.

You've got to get some of these things off your plate.

This is not a sustainable situation. You're going to blow up.

And I think the hard thing is

trying to make everything work. You can't make everything work.
So that's it. So I think there's

level of, I mean, it's kind of almost like grief of like, wow, I really thought this from a location, a school, like X, Y, and Z was going to look like this. And realizing it can't.

It can't look like this. And so in order for us to get margin and peace, it's probably going to mean, yeah, maybe a move financially that is way better.

Maybe the schools aren't as great, but most public schools have the ability, I mean, depending on the county,

of helping. And your kids are small.
I mean, they're not even really in elementary school, if I heard you right.

They're probably like... Two of them are very young.

Yeah.

So if anything, I would just want that stability of margin and being able for your husband to quit one of the jobs, right?

And I mean, finding that again, but that's the housing situation and the location.

But the physical attributes.

The physical attributes of the house you're in do not make a home.

The location of the house you're in doesn't make a home. You and your husband, as a couple, make a home for those kids.
And,

you know,

most everyone listening to you calling in right now lived in a home that was a lot worse than you're living in now when we were growing up.

Almost everyone listening.

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Paul's in Seattle. Hey, Paul, how are you?

Great. How are you? Thanks for having me.
Sure. What's up?

So I'm finding myself in between a rock and a hard place.

I've been at my current job for about 20 years. I've started when I was 20.
I'm 40 years old now. And it's a warehouse job, right?

So I took it when I was younger because it was the best paying job at the time. I've invested with a pension there.
It's union. It's great on paper.

But about five years ago, I started my own landscaping business, long landscaping business.

And it has exploded and it kind of took off to the point to where I've been doing both for about five years now. And I'm stuck in the spot where

how do you know when it's time to go? Because I find myself with a lot of fear of the unknown, of losing something that's so secure that you've been a part of for about 20 years. And

boat anchors are secure.

But they'll drown you.

So what are you making of the day job?

I think we make about $38 an hour or something like that. So what do you make a year at the day job?

Probably about $80,000, $75, $80,000, I would say. And what do you do at the warehouse for $80,000?

We are union pickers, basically order selectors. We fulfill orders, we load them.

$80,000?

Yeah,

$85,000. Well, he's been there 20 years.
I don't care.

You're picking boxes for 80 grand? That's amazing. Okay.
But just like you said, all I'm doing is moving boxes, and that's my purpose. Yeah.

So, what are you making at landscaping? What was your profit last year?

I mean, because I'm doing it both on side, I would probably say it's probably a little bit less than that. But you have to understand, I'm only doing it about 20 hours.
No, that wasn't what I asked.

What I asked is what you actually made on your tax return. What was your profit?

Probably about 60.

Okay, good.

All right.

And for me, you know,

I don't have any debt in my business because it's all been, so all the money that I've been making, I've just been paying off all my equipment, you know, so a family house. Do you have any other debt?

No, we have no household debt. We have no credit card debt.
What does it take a month for your household to operate? I would say on the most expensive end, maybe $4,500 a month. Okay.

Well, you can quit tomorrow if you want.

My wife works at the court, so I can get on her medical. We have about $20,000 in savings for our nest aid, no credit card debt.
You can quit tomorrow if you want.

I mean, and I know this, but me being the sole provider and going into the unknown, it's almost like I feel like I'm getting a divorce, you know, for 20 years.

I've almost been at that job longer than I've not been. Yeah, but she's not a good wife.

No, it's not.

It's just that getting the courage enough,

you know, getting the courage enough to

think very much

Let me stop you a second, okay? Your security does not come from someone else's ability to provide you a paycheck. That is an illusion

Your security comes from your ability to get up leave the cave kill something and drag it home You have two methods of doing that now one is you've been employed for a long long time lifting boxes one is you've grown your your own business.

That's two ways that you can get up, leave the cave, kill something, and drag it home. But the idea that I have a stable job, stables are where they keep horses when they don't run.

So go run.

Okay, go do this.

It's an illusion. Your stability,

your sense of security is an illusion because you're basing it on the fact that those goobers over there at the warehouse are going to write you a check and somehow the union is going to take care of you.

laugh laugh cough cough exactly okay yeah so now let's go back to who's really going to take care of you god

and paul

absolutely go

run your landscaping business and make a hundred and thirty thousand dollars a year and work a considerable less hours a week and enjoy your life

And that's what I'm after. You know, I felt like, you know,

I started when I was young and my priorities as I've gotten older have changed drastically about what's important to me and just time with my family and just being able to prove to myself that I'm able to make a living for myself.

But it's a very scary thing to do when you leave them there and trying to get it would be scary if you were making 30,000 at the landscaping.

You're already making almost as much at landscaping as you are at the warehouse. If you told me you're making 20, I wouldn't tell you to quit.

I would say, you know, get your hours up on the landscaping. Let's get the end, get the boat closer to the dock before you jump.
But your boat's really close to the dock. You're just stepping.

But you've been used to standing on the dock, and you need to step into the boat, man.

And I know that, you know, I'm turning away so much business because

I only have so much time. You don't have to convince me, Paul.

I'm already sold. I think he's convincing himself.

I guess the knowing that I'm going to say that's the data question is: how do I convince my wife?

Oh, what is she saying?

What's she saying?

I love my wife to death, but

it's one of those things where fear,

she's very much so afraid of change. And this is a very big change because we've constantly...
Listen, no one's afraid of change when change is for the better.

They're only afraid of change if they don't think it's going to work.

If you get a brand new, nice car and it's better than the old one, no one says I'm afraid of change.

Right. They only fear change is if they think it's going to be worse.
That's the only time people fear change. That's a misnomer.
It's not true. So we love change when it's for the better.

All of us do. So, yeah, I love change.
And so all we've got to do is she's got to get her head around where money comes from. And it doesn't come from a, quote, stable job.

It comes from your ability to go into the marketplace and earn money. And dude, at any minute, you could go get a job like the one you've got again if this whole thing falls apart.
Whoopty-doopty.

Yeah. But I promise you, it's not going to fall apart.
I promise you, you got five-year track record.

You're talking to a guy who couldn't, our company consults 10,000 small businesses. We coach a lot of small businesses.
I would tell you the truth. You know I would.

If this idea sucked, I would tell you it sucked.

Yeah. It doesn't suck.
This will work.

Yeah. And, you know, being in being in Seattle, the Evergreen State, you know, it was just one of those things.
I really enjoyed it. You know,

I did it as a side hustle because, you know, we were just looking for more income and it just exploded into something I could have. I'm already sold.
I'm already sold.

I'm already sold. You don't have to sell me.
You just got to talk to her about it. And the bottom line is, you're going to be just fine.
You're going to be just fine.

Yeah, how much does she make, Paul?

She probably about as much as me.

I mean, I would say she's probably in the

70s.

Yes, you are making. So you're going to have $150,000 household income almost immediately.
And double of what you guys need to run your household, too. Yeah, you're making a lot.

And you've done really good with your finances. You're not in debt.
You got an emergency fund. Everything about this is stable, stable, stable, stable, stable.
Hey, man, go do it. This is the time.

Fly and be free. Please,

please, please quit that awful job. Please.

I know, and he said he's the sole provider.

Have you ever heard?

He's not the sole provider. That's it.
So she's, I mean, guys, guys, out there in America, if you've ever heard the term golden handcuffs, you just witnessed it.

You've just heard the discussion. This is golden handcuffs, and it is a

fallacy. So my favorite story on this is my grandpa lost a business in the Great Depression, and he got a job at Alcohol Aluminum in the accounting department.

He worked there 38 years because it was stable, because it was a good job, and because he was scared and he couldn't, he didn't have

a lot of people.

He was happy to have a job and grateful to have a job, and my grandma was the same way, and he worked there until he retired. And he was a wonderful man.
He was a wonderful man. So

I printed the financial piece book and went out on my own after we went broke and were trying to get the financial piece book sold and

the publisher sent me an email one day that said we just sold our one millionth copy of financial peace

then my phone rang and it was my grandmother and she said i was praying for you this morning i think you need to get a job

Isn't that sweet? She's so sweet.

You're like, you're not.

Dave is not working.

He's writing books.

Well, I'm just worried about about you. I mean, you're self-employed and it's not stable.

Go get them, Paul.

I love entrepreneurs. Don't forget, guys, I started my company on a card table myself.
So I know what it's like to have people counting on you, your team, your family, not to mention your customers.

And when you're the one signing the paychecks, you can't afford to fly blind.

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Steve is in Raleigh. Hi, Steve.
How are you?

Oh, I'm doing fine. It's great to be with you guys.
You too. How can we help?

So I'm 62 years old, and I've been trying to think about retirement.

The things that are holding me back are, well, health insurance is one thing, and also

the fact that no money will be coming in, but all money will be going out. And I'm having a hard time getting comfortable with that.
And what I really want is somebody to tell me that I can stop.

What do you mean no money will be coming in? You mean you won't be earning an income? That's right. Okay.

And so do you have a pension? Do you have a 401k nest egg?

Yeah, yeah, I've got

401ks and IRAs and all that stuff. Okay.

No pension. No pension.
How much is in all those accounts?

3.5 million. Okay.
All right.

Well, if no money's coming in, it's just because you're not taking any of it is all. Okay.

Because let's just be, what do you make of your

$175. Okay.
Way to go, man. I'm proud of you.
Well, done, Steve. I assume you started with nothing and became a multi-millionaire.

Yep. I'm very proud of you.
That's amazing.

American Dream is not dead. Gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, meet Steve.
So, now,

so you understand that 3.5 invested in good growth stock mutual funds, if it averaged 10%, would be 350K.

Yeah. Income that it produces without touching the nest egg.

Right.

Which is twice what you make now.

Right.

I guess that, you know, they're still,

you know,

some years it's going to be up, some years it's going to be down. What do I do in the down years?

Use some of it.

Yeah.

Okay. So

the down years very seldom are below 5%.

Find a time that

the stock market made under 5%. The number of times in the last 30 years, hardly ever.
Right. Okay.
Right. Like maybe two.

And so you use a little bit of the 3.5, maybe, but maybe don't take the whole 350 off. Maybe take 200 off and let it grow by 150 to cover the down years.

Right.

See, do you have to...

It's impossible unless you lose your mind and join Congress for you to go through this money before you die.

Is your house paid off and everything, Steve, any debt?

No, no debt. Okay.
House paid. Okay.

How long have you been married? You know, I'm not married.

What is it you want to do with the rest of your life?

I've still got to figure that out. I would like to travel some.

You know, life events,

recent, somewhat recent life events have made me realize that

what I should be doing or what I feel like I should be doing is spending time with people that I love and people that love me. Yep.
And the whole, you know, pushing paper around is

not a good use of my time anymore. What do you do for a living? I'm an attorney.
Okay. All right.
Cool. Do you have family, Steve, around?

Yeah. Yeah.
I've got a brother and sister. Okay.

That's great. Okay.

Well, I'll tell you two things. One is, yes, you're in excellent financial condition.
You've done a wonderful job and you're able to retire.

And if you pulled off 200 and left, let it grow by $150 a year, this would run in perpetuation. And I don't know who you're going to leave the 3.5, 3.5, 3.5, 3.

Oh, 4 million, oh, 4.5 million, because it's going to keep growing, okay, because you're not going to use it all. So who are you going to leave all that to?

So I easily, this is a no-brainer equation, you're easily able to quit.

Then I will also tell you, because I'm your age, I'm 65, I'm a little older, and that you have friends, and I have friends who retirement wasn't good to them.

emotionally.

Right.

They didn't know what to do with themselves. So I would develop something I'm going to do.
I don't care what it is, and it doesn't have to be 80 hours a week. It doesn't have to be pushing paper.

You do have a unique skill and license that you could probably do some things that would be unbelievable blessing to some ministries and to some nonprofits from an attorney's perspective

and not strain you even a little bit, but give you something to lay your hand to the plow so you know you're still planting some corn in this earth.

Right.

And you just need something to do. Netflix doesn't cut it.

Yeah, that's true. You're right.

Yeah, that's going to be key for me is having a plan. Yeah, so I think I would develop that before I pull the trigger on this.

But the question you called here for is, mathematically, this is a no-brainer.

Okay. It's 2X of a no-brainer.

Right. Okay.
That's good. Yeah.
You're in great shape.

Sit down with your financial coach or your financial advisor and talk about how you can draw 200K off of this and make sure it's invested in something that's averaging what the market's averaging, and you'll be just fine.

Well done, Steve. Yeah, man, that's amazing.
It's amazing. It is interesting.
Whatever happens, you know, we didn't ask, but he said recent events have made me realize, oh, wow. And it's used those.

Those are gifts. Whatever that is, whether it was a tragedy or a gift, a blessing, whatever that thing was that caused this kind of change of heart to a degree, listen to that.

I mean, there's something in that for you. Yeah, it's,

yeah, yeah, yeah, it's exactly, it's very smart to do that. And you ought to be doing that at all ages as you go along.

But also when there's some, when you have these certain appointments,

God appointments that come across your path, you need to listen to them. You're right, Rachel.

Very good. Jeffson, wait a minute, before we do that, do you ever feel like you're doing everything right with your money, but you're not getting anywhere? You're not, Steve.

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Rachel Steve and our caller before that, trying to quit the warehouse job and go in business with yourself. It is amazing that when you

are resilient, and people are talking a lot about resilience these days, that

that things have been pretty easy for a long time around America. And when things are hard, people don't know what to do because they don't know how to do hard stuff.

And so teach your kids to do hard stuff, boys and girls, and teach yourself to do hard stuff. Practice doing uncomfortable things because these are the actions of people that win.

When you do that over a long period of time, take a job in the warehouse and you just get up and you go to work every day

and you do your work and you stick to it. A lot of people don't have stick to it.
Does that guy had stick? He just stuck with it for 20 freaking years.

When Steve has been an attorney and he's just got it done, he keeps putting money aside. He builds up a three and a half million dollar nest egg.
Then when you stop

this resilience, this pushing, this scratching and clawing and persevering, sometimes we don't know what to do. Like, I finally, I got there.
Yeah. I went through the tape.

I won the race or I finished the the race. Now, now what? Yeah.

And your brain and your life rhythm is so bent on resilience and scratching and clawing that it's hard to stop and take a step back and go, wait a minute, this worked.

This landscaping thing is big enough.

It's almost like

a celebration of your hard work to enjoy it, enjoy the fruits, right? It's like people that call in and they don't know how to spend money because they've been saving their whole life.

Same idea, right? It's a different muscle. Yeah, you have to do it.
But enjoy the fruits of what you've done. You really have to make a conscious thing.

We see that a lot these days, a conscious effort to say, if I've been busting it to downshift and enjoy a little bit, it's a different gear. It's a different gear, but it's a good gear.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, and my daughter is my co-host today.

Open phones here at 888-825-5225.

So, Rachel, I was on Fox a little bit earlier, and we're talking about affordability for housing and this

people not being able to afford a house and the sense of depression about that and so forth. And so, I've done a little bit of discussion and analysis on that.
And

I want to let you guys out there know a couple things that

we're thinking and we're seeing around here. There's kind of two sides to the coin.
Side one of the coin is what could be done. Okay, so house prices

are affected always by supply and demand.

And we have had an inventory shortage,

more buyers than sellers, for about 20 years.

We've had more buyers than sellers. And anytime you have a shortage of anything, the price goes up.
Pretty simple economics, right?

Whether it's a Nintendo or a Cabbage Patch doll or a house, when there's a shortage of something, the price goes up. Too many people chasing too few goods, kind of thing.
So

then we start thinking about: okay, what could you do to boost inventory? Well, there are a couple of things that have been happening that have been harming inventory pretty considerably.

And this is actually one of the few times you're he'll hear Dave say that the government could actually do something

about this. Okay.

One is we've got large REITs, real estate investment trusts, and American corporations and Chinese corporations buying thousands and thousands and thousands of single-family homes

and taking them off the market and putting them up for rent. I mean, like five or six hundred thousand in the past few years.
It's a lot. It's not just a few.

So one thing you could do, and I'm really against limiting free enterprise, but when

the basic use of a single-family home is for a family to get a toehold in the marketplace and to build wealth and to have a stable place to live, when that's being affected by foreign organizations and by out-of-control capitalism, then you've got to put some limits on that.

So some kind of a stoppage, stop that.

Another thing that's draining the market is Airbnbs.

Tens of thousands of single-family homes, condos,

co-ops, whatever, are off.

They're bought by people at unrealistic prices only because they're turning them into a hotel.

And they're making tons of money, and people are buying 8, 10, 20, 15 of them at a time.

And that did not exist 20 years ago.

Okay.

And so some kind of a limitation, not necessarily a complete stopping of that,

but limiting the number of units that go off the market so that a young couple getting married have a house to buy instead of it turning into an Airbnb because somebody bought it nothing down using some stupid TikTok guy's formula to buy it.

Okay, so some kind of limitation on that. But here's one.
I was talking to Brian Buffini about this the other day. He's the top real estate agent.
Oh, yeah.

He's in this.

He's really into this stuff. And he and I were having a discussion on the back porch about it.
And he had such great ideas. He said, and I had not thought of this, I just thought it's brilliant.

So it's been, I need to look it up when it was, but it's at least 20 years ago that the capital gains law on single-family homes was changed. And it was a big deal.
It used to be that you

got a tax break a little bit on your personal residence.

And they changed it massively with whatever it was 20 years ago and said, okay, married filing jointly, you can make up to a half million dollars.

Single, you can make up to $250,000. Tax-free on the growth of your capital gain on your personal residence if you own it one year or more.

And that was a big breakthrough. Well, guess what? Half million dollars isn't much anymore.

And he said raising that to a million would take a bunch of boomers out of their home that would say,

I would downsize, but I'm going to have to pay some stinking much tax that I'm not going to downsize.

And see, if that level will sell, the next level sells to move up into that, and the next level below that moves up, you create a domino down the price points.

And so giving a million dollar exemption instead of a half million dollar exemption and even do it on all

small ownership.

So if you had two rentals and you wanted to dump them and you can make up to a million dollars, you dump those back into the inventory pool for that sweet young couple to have a place to buy.

But they don't want to get rid of that rental because the taxes

and there is no capital gains break on that except you're paying 15% or if you make over 400,000, you pay 20%. Right, right.
So you get hammered if you've got a house. Like I've got a bunch of houses.

I probably got 15 houses. Most of our real estate's not houses, but I got 15 or 20.

And I would dump those stupid things

because I got a lot of gain in them. But I'm not going to give the government a bunch of money.

So instead, I'm going to have to do some kind of 1031, roll them, and I'll get them back out of the market and turn them into commercial property. But most people won't do that.

I actually know how to do it. Your husband and I will be doing that together.

But if you gave gave people a tax break on the rentals that they own and a tax of up to a million dollars and on their personal residence, there'd be a bunch of houses going to market. Interesting.

Yeah. And that would stimulate this inventory.
So if we could start dumping in, and he brought up one other thing that's really technical, but it's true.

So when you do development, if you develop a subdivision, if you're a developer, you buy a piece of land and you put in a street and you put in the utilities and you go through all the stupid permitting and you put up with a stupid city and you go through all the stupid stuff about the trees and the stupid stuff about the creeks and all the stupid stuff you have to do to develop a subdivision, right?

It's ridiculous, okay? When you finish with all that stupid stuff, all those expenses you can't expense. They have to be depreciated over a large number of years.
So you could put

$15 million in a sewer system for a subdivision, and you don't get to write off $15 million. You get to write off a million dollars a year for 15 years or something like that.
And if you up that.

And he said, if you just said they can expense it instead of depreciating it, that would stimulate developers to start building subdivisions, which would stimulate,

you know, and so you could do that, but that's giving the evil businessman a tax break. Oh my God, you liberals.
But anyway,

but this is how you get the thing started.

You actually get tax breaks to people to cause them to do this stuff. Quit, let me keep my money

and I'll go do stuff. Yeah.
That's what investors say. And that's what people say when they're selling their house.
I'm not selling this house. I'm not giving the government all that money.

It's my money. And you say, okay, you could keep your money.
It'll stimulate the stinking inventory. Yeah.
The other side of the coin, though, and I've almost used up all my time here.

I'm not going to take two segments on this, is we're increasingly realizing that the 25 and 26 year old in America has been screwed by the large banks and the car companies like never before, like no generation before.

So if you're 25 or 26, you've been screwed by the big banks like you've never been screwed.

From the loans that they're having. The loans.

You cannot buy a house when you have a $1,200 car payment, when you have a student loan that's $85,000 and you've got credit card debt coming out your ears. Record credit card debt.
Record car debt.

Record debt. Debt, debt, debt, debt.
And then you sit there and whine you can't buy a house because you got victimized by these people. You set yourself up for it.
You signed up for the trip, baby.

But you've been screwed by the Citibanks. What's in your wallet?

The money that's going to Citibank should have been going to buy you a house.

Hmm.

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Jeff's in Texas. Hey, Jeff, how are you?

Good. How are you all today? Better than we deserve.
What's up?

Hey, I'm trying to figure out what I should do with my house to move along with my bitch snowball.

I work out of town. I'm probably home in my house about 60 days a year.
The rest of the time I'm in my camper.

And so I'm trying to figure out if I should sell my house, rent it out to renters, or just keep it.

You're single? Yeah.

No, I'm married with two kids.

They're in the camper?

What are y'all doing in the camper? Is it travel? Is it work? Work. Yeah, I'm in the oil and gas industry, so I'm not going going for work.

How much is the house worth?

I think we could probably sell it for about $265. I think it's around about $265, $270.
What do you make a year?

I take home $145.

Okay.

Part of me would

have you keep it just to

have a home, you know, a piece of real estate. How old are you?

I'm 32 and the wife's 31.

Okay, so I think the big deal is

we don't want to make a decision based on the snapshot that is the moment. Let's instead look at

the film strip and see how this film's going to end. So what are you going to be doing in 10 years?

Well, I'm hoping, you know, spend another three to five years in this industry and then go home with everything paid for is kind of my goal. Yeah.

And then at that time, my kids would start school and the wife could go back to school. Yeah, keep it.
And then

you're paid for it. Keep it.
Yeah, you keep it. Okay.
Because that's what you that's why you're keeping it. Not for what not for its current use.
You're keeping it for where this is going.

And you guys want to be in that area, Jeff? Do you think? If you were to if you were to

forecast it. Okay.

It's definitely a good area. It's got a good school district.
I think we bought it to begin with.

But so you keep it even if like if I sold it, I'd be able to pay off for the other 40,000 in debt, which I think. Yeah, you make 140,000.
You can pay that off.

Okay. So, because I figured I can pay everything else off besides camper in 10 months.
And the camper, it's got a lot of dude on it, too, about $84,000. Okay.
Yeah, that's going to be a problem.

The campers is the expense.

Yeah, that's a cost of

your career.

Your career costs you money. And the campers, you know, the loss of value in that thing, because those things go down in value like faster than anything on the planet.

This is going to just like, like when you're done, you're going to be with cousin Eddie.

Yeah, so I would just hate to, yeah, to sell an asset like a house that's going to go up in value to pay for something that's going to go down in value. Yeah.
So

what about renting it? Would you, would you consider renting it? No, I don't think I would.

I think I just, I think I would enjoy my house when I can get home and use it.

And there might be some times that the family stays and you go out for two weeks and work and let them enjoy the stability of the house instead of living in a freaking camper.

Yeah, it's it's so nice to go home and have room and space

and cooped up and heal. Well, yeah.
Even though the camper is big,

but it's not spacious. Yeah, this one's not going to roll away.
I mean,

it matters. It matters.
I think it's going to be good for the psychology of your relationship with your wife and your kids for them to have a solid home base. to touch base in and to rest a little.

And you can go out and do a few weeks and come back. And occasionally they can go out with you in the camper and come back.
And then you just, but you continue to bust it.

What you're doing is paying paying a price to get to a place.

What you're doing now, you have no intention of doing the rest of your life.

Correct. Yeah.
And the company I'm with is based where I live. So there's maybe an opportunity to go, you know, tell them I'm done in the field and hopefully try to work from the home office there.

I would start having those discussions and say, three to five years, what classes do I need to take? What mentorship program do I need to be in to be able to come home in three to five years?

I'm going to bust it. I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing.
I'm not quitting. I just need to, I need, this is my plan, and I want to make sure you guys have a plan, too, that matches my plan.

Yes, sir. I start talking to your leadership team about that

because they know that you guys don't do this stuff forever.

Yeah. There's a shelf life on what you do.

Right?

Yes, sir. Yeah.
I mean, there's not any 65-year-olds much doing what you're doing.

Yeah, correct. Yeah, that's what I mean.
So they're used to people churning out or churning up over time. And

I just want to get dialed in with that and get aligned with them on what I need to be doing to get that opportunity so that I've got a place to go.

Not next month, maybe not next year, but in three to five years, I'm going to be doing something different. And so let's be working that out.
Yeah, I'd keep it, Jeff. It's a good question.

It's an interesting question. I don't know if I've ever thought about that that way, but if he had said...
I'll get that with truck drivers.

Yeah, if he had said 15 years, I might have said sell it. Sure.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But three to five.
Yeah. And the littles,

they got a home base they can stay in. Yeah.
That's cool. Yep, yep, yep, yep.
Michael's in San Diego. Hey, Michael.

Hey, Dave, Rachel, how are you guys? Great. How can we help?

I have a bit of a career question that I need advice on.

I recently took a completely different career path in a different job that pays about $30,000 more a year to try to help my wife and I get out of baby step two a little bit faster. Cool.

But I'm noticing, yeah, yeah, I know we're excited, but I am noticing some pretty kind of severe red flags about this new position.

It's a director of sales position.

Everybody in this department is new. The turnover is extremely high, and I already have people there that are very upset that have only been there for about a month.
What are they upset about?

Well, my sales reps, they have zero leads. There's literally no one doing any kind of marketing.

Were they promised leads?

Yeah, to a certain degree.

It's an expectation that they're to make a certain amount of phone calls per day, and they can't even meet those phone calls per day because there's nothing in our CRM tool for them to work on.

So I'm concerned about like long-term. Is this a new company?

No, this company's been around for a significant period of time. They went through a transition recently.
This doesn't sound like an integrity problem. It sounds like a competence problem.

Yeah, I would agree. I'm just more concerned about like long-term longevity, right? Like with this career, should I stick around for a year or two, kind of see what you're doing?

Well, if I'm going to stick around, I'm going to work on the problems.

And I'm going to get some help from leadership working on the problems.

I don't going to just sit here and watch the thing burn down.

No, no. And of course, I agree with you, but I've already brought some things to leadership, and they're not really open to discussion.

Wait a minute, we don't have any leads in the CRM tool. You want these guys to make calls, and there's no calls for them to make, and leadership says I don't want to talk about it?

Pretty much. Why? That's weird.
Do you want to lose your whole sales team?

Yeah, it's again, it's very odd to me. And I've started looking at who's doing the marketing, how's the marketing handled? Can we get out into the community?

I've started to ask these questions, and the response I got was, that's why your predecessor is no longer here.

Because he has questions?

Is that what it meant? Is that what that meant?

Yeah, about the leads in particular. Yes.

Okay, look for a job.

Okay. Bizarre.

Yeah, you need to get another job.

Okay. This one's not going to last.
You're going to get fired. Yeah, my old job will have me back right now.
No, I don't want you to go take a pay cut. I want you to make more money.

Let's get a new job making $30,000 more than you're making now.

Okay. Only this time it's working for competent leaders.

Yeah.

Well, thank you guys.

Is this the epic leadership fail or what? This sounds like corporate America beyond belief. The last guy that asked questions is no longer here.

we can't find his body and don't ask questions that'll get you killed what what kind of corporate crap is that that's just crap is it a large company michael yes um it is yeah it's it's a it's a large company yeah they're large enough to absorb this level of crap

in this one department that you happen to be stuck in yeah really good god man what an idiot what a corporate idiot oh the last guy that asks questions doesn't work here anymore don't ask any questions Good God.

That's classic. It's like office space.

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All right, today's question comes from Greg in New York.

My wife and I are approaching our 60s, debt-free, including our home, and have a net worth of over $2.5 million, including $125,000 in a high-yield savings.

We bring home about $14,000 a month, and our expenses are about $8,500. I plan to partially retire from my job soon by cutting back my hours.

My wife wants to keep working for a while, bringing home about $3,000 a month with benefits.

We've agreed to go gazelle intense again by cutting expenses and living like poor college kids, only this time enjoying home-cooked dinners instead of ramen noodles to help us with the transition.

Does that make sense at this stage, or are we in a good enough position to start shifting towards balance and enjoyment?

I think you have some margin. I think you're okay.

Yeah, you know. Greg,

you guys need to redo your math, okay?

$2.5 million

is the net worth, and so it's not the actual number. But if you invested $2.5 million in a decent gross stock mutual fund, you would make $250,000 a year.

And not touch the $2.5 million. Okay, now all of that's not invested because some of this is the paid-for home.
It's part of the net worth. So that's not the real number.

But the point is, you're not utilizing in this math the income off of the nest egg that you've so diligently built.

And so start taking some income off of your nest egg that you've so diligently built. And you don't have to take the, you don't have to turn the nest egg.
Just take some of the income off of it.

Have it invested decently in good mutual funds. And then whatever they make, throw that in the pot.
And, you know, then $3,000 a month just becomes kind of cute that your wife is making.

That's just kind of cute. It's unrealistic.
So no, you do not need to act like college kids. And no, you don't need to go gazelle and tents.
No, you're just fine. You're fine.

You got plenty of money and you're making plenty of money. Well, yeah, I mean, if your expenses are $8,500 and you're making $20 a month, you're fine.
Like, you're fine. Yeah.
Hello. Yeah.

And, you know, he's not going to quit.

He said, we're bringing home 14. She's making three.
He's making 11. He's going to cut back his hours.
They're probably still going to be at 8,500. Yeah.
If not more.

Income without touching the Nest eggs. That's right.
Without taking the income off the Nestex. So, yeah, you got plenty of room.
You don't need to go gazelle intense. You're fine.

You have transitioned, sir, from the acquisition acquisition mode to the enjoyment mode.

You've been building the nest egg. Now it's time for breakfast.

Crack the nest egg and begin eating, sir. Oh, I was like, where's the breakfast? What's the breakfast? Well, you got to do something with these eggs, right? Got to do something with the eggs.

The golden eggs from the golden goose. That's right.

The goose is big, fat, and sassy. Let's get some of the eggs, okay? Enjoy, enjoy.
Let's ride the eggs. Good job, Greg.

Yeah, you didn't call me up with no money, and I'm trying to retire because I deserve to because I'm old. No, that was not what you called and said.
Way to go. Proud of you.
Very well done.

Jackie's in Kansas City. Hey, Jackie, how can we help? Hi, Dave.
Hi, Rachel. Thanks for taking my call.
Sure. How can we help?

I'm calling because I'm preparing for a divorce after 20 years as a stay-at-home mom.

And I need some clarity on how to navigate the finances, particularly with the house and asset division. Wow.

Sorry. What happened?

My husband has a sex addiction and has been chronically unfaithful to me. I've tried to reconcile multiple times, and this most recent time I'm done.

Wow.

I'm sorry, Jackie. That's awful.
How old are the kiddos?

I've got 19, 16, 14, and 10, all boys.

Wow.

All right. And

what does he make?

He makes about $220 a year.

And

how much debt do you all have?

Just $11,000 on his truck, which he's planning to keep. My van is paid for.
What about the house?

The house is approximately worth $550,000. We owe $143,000, and the payment is $1,800 a month with 2.25%.

Okay.

And

what does he have in a 401k?

We have $160,000 in investments, and between two Roth IRAs, we have $270,000.

Okay.

So $400,000. Okay.
$430,000. Okay.

So my big question, Dave, is I don't have any income, so even assuming the mortgage would be difficult.

I'm in grad school to become a counselor, and I don't have a sense of what alimony might be, but child support is around $1,800 to $2,000 a month. And so qualifying for a mortgage is

how far before you finish your degree?

Two and a half years still.

Okay. All right.
Well,

apparently you've not been talking to an attorney yet. Not yet.

I've decided, but before I go an attorney and the attorney is going to tell you better than I can in your state what your state law is going to afford you on this.

So,

and of course it's also what you guys can mediate as well. So, a friend of mine that used to do divorce counseling says divorce turns a marriage into a business transaction.

So, this now is, despite all of the pain, the anger, the angst,

the worry, despite all of the heartbreak, this is now a math problem.

Yeah, sadly. That's what I was calling, yeah, because I think if I keep the house that I'll be cash poor.
I create equity.

Yeah, if he took this other stuff and you took the equity in the house, I'd be close to an even swap. And then he pays child support and alimony.

That would not be unusual, but I'm not going to recommend that. Okay.

So

what we found is this.

Doing this for a long, long time.

Mom wants to hold, Mama Bear wants to hold on to the house because the kids have been through enough and making them move and change schools is just too much because they feel like that's the last straw, like the kids can't, they're not resilient enough to make it through that.

Actually, they are because

their world's already upside down. The house and school is a minor part of their world, really.
But in Mama Bear's mind, it often feels like it's a bigger part than it actually is.

And so she takes the house that she can't afford to protect the children from the last little bit of pain that she can and

and it becomes a curse rather than a blessing and so that's what I don't want to do here yours is not super bad because you don't owe that much on it right and so that makes it and it's not super expensive yeah 1800 bucks yeah so

you know if you could end up with a chunk of money and the house and

you know, like not an even split, in other words,

you know, you might could make it.

Otherwise, you're going to have to think about, if you're going to try to keep the house, you're going to have to think about a career while you're finishing up your counseling.

Yes. Yeah, that was part of the question, Mari.
I'm willing to work during grad school, but when I get to my internship, I'll be working 35 to 40 hours a week just in unpaid internships.

And how long is that for? Is that a semester long?

That'll be a full year. And so taking an additional 30-ish hours a year.
A lot of those, though, are paid. A lot of those are paid gigs.

Yeah, this particular program, the school that I'm in, that's an unpaid position.

Well, let's think about a different way of doing that then.

Okay.

Because if you could get paid to be an intern, that changes the equation, too, a little for you. It doesn't change the whole thing, but it helps make the adjustments.

So, yeah, you've got to, you don't, don't let the illusion that the house is providing more for the children than it actually is

put you in a position that it damages the next decade of their life and yours. Right, right.
So, cut it loose if you have to. But I don't know what you're going to be able to come out of this with.

And an $1,800 mortgage, though, you know, if you think about it's not bad. Renting and stuff could be around this.
I don't know. There's a part of me that you may be paying that regardless.

But you got to eat. Yeah.
And you got to pay lights and insurance. And you got no money coming in.
So we got to have some money coming in. And that's what, that's how we balance this out.
Yeah.

So the alimony could help if there's any of that. Child support.
Yeah. 20 years.
Yeah. It's probably depending on the state i don't know

i'm sorry jackie

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Start every dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play. Ramon's in Chicago.
Hi, Ramon.

Hey, Dave, Harry. How's it going? Better not deserve.
What's up?

All right. So in a nutshell,

early 40s,

about 190 in debt, and I think it's accumulating still.

Recently lost my job

in the beginning of October.

And,

you know, just trying to determine if, you know, with this mountain of debt, if bankruptcy is the route as opposed to,

you know, going deeper in debt while waiting for additional forms of income.

Why would you go into debt while waiting on additional forms of income? Why don't you just go get something to do right now? Like it's Christmas time, lift boxes for FedEx and eat.

Oh, a thousand percent. If they were to call me tomorrow based off the application that was submitted last week, I would do it.

But as it stands as today,

there's no

retail, part-time, temporary roles tolling back at the moment.

That's strange.

Okay.

What's the 190 in debt?

What does it consist of?

Yeah, so it's about 140, 150 in

student loans,

about 20 in credit card debt, and about 30 from a personal loan. Okay.
Got bad news for you. Student loans aren't bankruptable.

So it would only, yeah, so 50 of that would only be wiped away in a bankruptcy.

And

that's not that, you can probably clear that up. Is that all that stuff, the 50 behind? Are you behind on all of it?

Yes, I'm current, but still a little bit, the credit card usage was high.

And so I did kind of take heed to some of the advice that I heard a while back on your show, which was to put, you know, the higher end

amounts on auto-pay for minimum payments just to keep it active while trying to chop away at the smaller ones. And I was doing that for a while, but then I had a series of job losses.

So prior to the job that

I was just laid off from in October.

What were you laid off from in October?

I was a fundraiser, so a director of development for a not-for-profit.

Why were you laid off?

There was a leadership change, and so

the

board of directors made some decisions on leadership roles.

Okay. And why did you lose the other jobs?

Again, laid off. So this was my traditional career background is in the advertising industry.

And, you know, it was high turnover and high service turnover in that industry. And

my client didn't renew with the agency. And so the agency couldn't afford to keep me on salary.

Are you married?

No, but I am engaged engaged with two children. Okay, okay.
One and five. Okay.

No, bankruptcy doesn't solve your problem. You have a career crisis.
You don't have a debt crisis. You got a lot of debt, but the core debt is not what's killing you.
It's that you have no income.

Correct. And so,

you know, I don't want to treat the wrong problem.

The real problem, the core problem is income and consistent income and at the moment, any income. And that's your core issue.
So that's what I want to spend all of my calories on.

And if you just took all of the debt payments and threw them in the trash and didn't pay them for two months, that's not the end of the world.

You can get right back up once you start making some money again. What were you making at the last gig?

$100,000. Yeah, okay.

And the gig prior to that was $165,000. Yeah.
So I was thinking you were a six-figure guy just listening to you. So I think you will be again.

I just don't know when and I don't know what. And at this moment, it feels scary and uncertain.
But no, you're not bankrupt. You're just unemployed.

And so we've got to solve that. And by the way,

like Rachel said, the bulk of your debt is not bankruptable anyway. And if you can make $100,000, $150,000 a year, it'd be silly to file bankruptcy on $50,000.

Because that's the essence of what you'd be doing. Follow me?

Yeah, I do. I do.
I appreciate that. Yeah, so I'll tell you what, hang on.

I'm going to connect you with Ken Coleman's book,

Finding the Work You're Wired to Do, and the Proximity Principle book, which is a really good book on landing a position of some kind. And

the best thing you can do is what you've been trying to do, it sounds like legitimately, and I do believe you, is to land something

immediately just to get your hand to something instead of sitting and worrying.

Yeah, and with the job market, even listening to Ken, just putting in applications online really isn't going far these days.

So it is going in person, finding someone that works somewhere, that knows an open position. So like there's some strategy because it is.
The job market's tough these days. I mean, I mean,

the retail side, I'm not sure, but when it comes to like a full-on career, like what you're talking about,

it takes more than just an application online or finding you know, a LinkedIn thing. Yeah, and I'm not even sure to get on with FedEx that just filling out the applications enough.

I think I'm going to bother some people over there and try to get over to, you know, I'm ready to start today. You ready to start? Let's go.
What do you got to do? I mean,

they probably need somebody today. I mean, it's Black Friday.
It's the, you know, everything's moving again. So retail's not running slow.
Sales are not bad. So

I'm,

you know, I don't know where they're all going, but sales are not bad. So interesting.
Very interesting. Josh is in Ohio.
Hey, Josh, how are you?

Doing good. How are you guys? Better than I deserve.
What's up?

So I'm going to receive $400,000 roughly next summer from my dad's farm being sold. I want to treat this money with wisdom and not blow it.

What's the best way to use a lump sum like this to build stability, invest wisely, and secure my future?

Good for you.

Passed away back in 2019. I'm sorry.

I I think I had.

How much debt do you have, Josh?

I have $18,000

between

two cars,

credit card, and student loans.

And then

I have multiple medical bills. I'm not exactly sure what those equal, but I guess around $20,000.

Okay, so $40,000 clears your debts.

Right? Yes. Okay.

Do you own a home?

No, we rent. Okay.
All right. How old are you, Josh?

30.

What do you make?

Roughly $77,000 a year. I drive trucks, so it's a little different each year.
Okay.

So what I would do is pay off your debts, build an emergency fund, and I would set the rest of it aside in a mutual fund and forget that you have it.

Get with a Ramsey Smart Vestor Pro, And it sounds like you need about $50,000 out of this.

So put about $350,000 in a mutual fund and just let it sit there and pretend like you don't have it and let it sit there and grow a little bit. And you keep working with no debt payments.

I want you to start saving money. And no debt payments, I want you to get on a detailed written budget with your wife and use this opportunity to change you.

not have the money change everything. It's not enough money to fix your life.
It's a lot of money. It's more than you've ever seen, but it's not enough to make it where you don't have to do anything.

You got to be smart from this point forward. As you said, wise.

And so I'm going to send you a copy of the book, The Total Money Makeover. And I want you guys to work that system.

Yeah, without the 400, and I think that's really important because used to credit cards, car payments, like that's the norm.

And when you just wipe it out, there's no emotional sacrifice at that point.

So you guys have to have a standard of living that you can live on with your income, and you guys feel good about creating these new money habits. We're not borrowing money anymore.
Yep.

And then if you choose to use that money, you know, three years down the road to buy a house or to use it for your life, you have good money habits in place.

So working on your money habits is going to be really, really important, Josh.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. Rachel Cruz, number one best-selling author, Ramsey personality.
My daughter is my co-host. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Elizabeth is in Arkansas. Hi, Elizabeth.
How are you?

Hey, Dave and Rachel. Hey, what's up?

Okay, so I am a

newly single mother of seven children

in the process of getting a divorce, and I do not make enough money to survive, and I need to know what to do next.

My gosh, where are you guys in the divorce process?

We have only just had one hearing about custody.

Is he writing that? It's still

no. Why? I have not received a dime.
Why?

Because he doesn't think that he should. It's not up to him.
It's up to your attorney to get off his butt and talk to the judge about sending the woman with seven children some money.

Yeah.

Well, right now we're having the kids half and half.

I don't care.

I get them a week. Yeah.

He needs to be writing checks to you in any state.

Yeah. Was your attorney a wuss or not smart?

I'm beginning to wonder.

But I don't have the funds to get anyone else at this point. So

you need to pick up the phone and chew their ass.

Yeah.

Can you say that? I just said that.

I mean, I got a lady with seven children that's not getting supported by her deadbeat soon-to-be ex, and the attorney's sitting on their thumb.

I can't think of anything that makes me madder than attorneys who sit on their thumbs.

Yeah, and so

currently

I have

$6,550 in student loans.

That's what I was able to get that.

I graduated this summer with an EMT license, and I got that so I could move out.

How old are the kids?

How old are your children?

8 to 15, two sets of twins. When are you starting the EMT gig?

Well, there is a possible opening in January, but again, because of the situation with the kids,

it's going to be really difficult for me to get a like a vanilla EMT job

because it's usually 48 on, 96 off.

And I don't, I want, I have the kids. I have to, you know, I think it's very doable.

Or 48, you're on, they're on him.

Right. But again, he's, he's been very.

I don't care what he wants.

You seem to think he has control of this. He has no control.
There are these neat things called laws.

When your attorney actually bows up and acts like an attorney.

No, definitely a listen, not unusual at all for one of the spouses in a divorce that has child has co-care custody with their children to be working for the fire department of the EMT and have 48 on, 96 off.

That's a fairly normal rhythm. And to put the child care, the chi the child custody arrangement to fit that rhythm is not unusual at all.
It's done every day in divorce courts in America.

Okay.

All right. When somebody has an attorney.
attorney.

Yeah. God.
Okay.

So, yeah. So this guy,

this guy is a, your soon-to-be ex is a control freak, overbearing bully, isn't he?

Yeah. And has been for how long?

17 of our 18 years. Okay.
Because you twice in the conversation already gave him way more power than he actually has.

Yeah.

And two, and two times I corrected you on it. You following me?

He really doesn't have. I mean, this is a...

Yeah, this guy's

so neutered, he doesn't even know it. He's got seven freaking children.
The judge is going to mop the floor with him,

assuming your attorney actually shows up for work.

Yeah.

Okay, so, yeah, this is.

Elizabeth, do you have the ability to get someone else? I wouldn't want to be him walking in front of a judge.

Yeah.

I'm sorry, Rachel, what was that? Do you have the ability to find someone new if you needed legal counsel that's different for your sake?

I don't think so. I actually had to borrow money from my daughter to be able to pay the retainer.

And

I'm currently making $204 weekly.

Doing what? Just

in-home care. I do in-home care, and then when I can, I do substitute teaching and that pays $91 a day.
And he's not doing any care of the kids at all.

He's not doing any of the child custody right now at all.

Well, he's got the kids every other week, with the exception of one of my oldest twins. She's at my house every week.
Okay.

So

you could be working that entire week for a lot more than 204.

Right. And you need to be.
But

the problem is, is the reason that my daughter is at our house is because

she was suicidal and

going to her dad's was just making it worse. Oh, I can imagine.
I can imagine.

Is she not safe at your house? Yes. Okay, then go work

the week that he's. The rest of the kids are gone.
You go to work that week.

Yeah. You got to.
You got to create someone.

She is not supposed to be left alone

yet.

So

that's been a challenge with that. But I have been working while they're at school.
You have family in the area?

They're over an hour away.

My mother is a widow.

She happened to work to survive herself.

And then I have siblings, but basically everybody is just working paycheck to paycheck. And I don't want to be that anymore.
Well, you are right now. You're just trying to eat.

So

Bubba needs to start writing some checks to you. You need to get some money on the weeks that the kids are gone.

And if she needs to go stay with her grandmother that week so somebody's watching the teenager, that's cool.

Right.

She wouldn't be able to. She's in school, though.
And

she'll be.

She's in Christmas right now.

Well, yeah, that's in a week and a half. It'll be

Christmas break. Yeah, so I mean,

you've got to create some income. $204.
I don't know how. What are you eating on?

We did qualify for food stamps. And so food stamps is taking care of the food.

Some friends from church stepped up and helped out with some stuff that has helped cover gas because I'm driving the kids back and forth to their school.

And what's he saying,

your ex, soon-to-be ex?

He's

blaming me for everything. Yeah.

So, listen, I want want you to hang up and I want you to call your attorney and say, if I don't start getting some checks immediately out of this guy to feed these seven children, we're over here on freaking food stamps.

And he has seven children. He's paying nothing.
You're not doing your job.

Yeah, okay. Right now.
All right. Do your job.
Elizabeth, I'm sorry. And hey, hold on the line.
Christian's going to pick up. We have Aldi gift cards.
Elizabeth, they're one of our sponsors.

And so we'll hook you up with some of those. Yeah, we'll get you some groceries going, kiddo.
Oh, I'm so sorry.

God, that pisses me off.

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Ramsey Solutions.com/slash store or click the link in the description, boys and girls. Daytona Beach is on the line.
Jana is calling. Hi, Jana.
How are you?

Hi, Dave and Rachel. Thank you for taking my call.
Sure. What's up?

So,

my question is:

I'm 46. My husband is 43, and we have nothing saved for retirement.
And

we don't own a house.

Well, correction. We own a house, but it's a rental right now.

And we're thinking of selling it.

And then my husband has about $100,000 in a TSP. Other than that, we have nothing saved.
And I'm a little nervous.

Well, I wouldn't be panicked. But I would be concerned.

Okay, because if you keep doing what you've been doing, you're going to keep getting what you've been getting. I'd be concerned about that.

But 46, I mean, you, you know, you got 20 years, you'll be okay. If you get your crap together, are you going to do it?

Absolutely. So, what's the house? I don't understand.
You have a rental house, but you don't live in it.

Correct.

It was

part of

we live in Daytona Beach. I know, but I mean, where do you, what's your house?

So, we are renting. Why?

Because my husband had a job relocation

to Daytona Beach. Where's the rental house?

Why didn't you sell the other house?

My husband has some sentimental issues. It was his first house that he ever bought, and he just didn't want to get rid of it.
It actually was a.

He should get rid of that and his old girlfriend's phone number both. Seriously.

Get rid of the house. That's stupid.
It's a house I bought in college. I love the house.
Oh, come on. Get rid of the house.
It's not a blessing to your family. How much could you get for it?

You're renting now because you own a rental property.

Right. Yeah, sell it.
What's it worth?

We just had an appraisal done on it. It's $313.
And what do you owe on it?

$200. Great.
Sell it. Buy you a house in Daytona Beach.
15-year fix where the payment's no more than a fourth-year take-home pay. Have you got other debt?

Yeah, so we're on baby step two right now. We're finishing it this month.
Great.

Good.

So if you finish baby step two and you sell this house and you buy a house with that money and then you have an emergency fund, you're on to baby step four, right?

Right. Boom.
I love this. And what's your household income?

Together, well,

my income kind of fluctuates a little bit.

I mean, what do you make a year? What do y'all make a year?

About 165 to 185. Okay.
If you say 15% from $46 to $66 of $150,000, you're going to be multi-millionaires.

Jana? Okay.

If you say 15% in baby step four, you said you knew what baby step two is. You know what baby step four is, right?

Which is around $30,000 a year. $30,000 a year for the next 20 years, you're going to be multi-millionaires.

Okay.

Pretty cool. Pretty cool.
I'm going to get.

You're going to put it in there? Yeah, I think we should. Let's get the exact number, but

I can't do 40 years in my head, but I'm not for it. It's probably 40,000.
Okay, I'll give you my guess. 3.5 million.
Okay. I'm going to do 43 because that's you, Jana, right? No, she's 46.

No, she's 43. 46.
Oh, who's 43? 46.

My husband.

To 66. So we're going to do 40.
Let's do 40 years

at

$3,000 a month. $2,500 a month.
It's $30,000. $2,500 a month.
See what you get. We're going to go 12%.
People are going to get mad about that. That's all right.
Get mad. $4.1 million.
Oh, Jana.

$3.5 million.

It's a good guess, Dave.

Did you get that, though, Jana? It's pretty good. So our leftover income is right now, and that's once we're done in this month, will be $7,415.72.

So we only need

like $4,000 to live on. You need $2,500 a month going into retirement in baby step four.
Baby step five is you need to save some towards kids' college.

Baby step six is you need to pay off this house I told you to go buy. And that is working till 67, by the way.

That was the number in the investment calculator. But all that to say,

three and a half to four million. But you guys have to, you have to start making some grown-up moves and keeping a house for sentimental value is not one of them.
You know what I mean?

Like you guys kind of have to face reality too, right, Jana? I mean, like, it's a house. He needs to, yeah, he needs to

feel that and see that. Yeah, dump it, and you guys get your house bought and start working this plan.
It's gonna work. You're doing great, it's gonna work.

And you know what's interesting? Let's go back to the beginning of this call. Did I not hear a little bit of panic and emotion in your voice that you were going to retire on Alpo?

Yeah. Yeah.

And I'm sitting here going, don't need to be. It's making you emotional? What's going on?

I mean, I'm just, I'm frustrated because up until this point, we've been paying $7,500 a month for my mom to be in an assisted living, and she blew her entire retirement and sent $500,000 across seas to a Nigerian prince of some sort.

Oh, my God. And so I am sitting here supporting her, and it's frustrating to me.
And then I look at her, and I look at me in the mirror, and I'm like, you're going to be just like her, not like her.

No, no, no, no, you're not, Jana. No, you're not.
And why would you be like her? You just figured out that's a dumb idea. You're not going to send half a million dollars to a Nigerian price.

Jana, say that to yourself. I am not going to send half a million dollars.
You know, you're not making the same decisions your mom made

already. You guys are already working your way out of debt.

You're already gaining financial ground. Let me tell you what normally happens where a family is dysfunctional with money.
Okay.

The kid goes the other way too far.

Not the same way.

Very few people follow

in their broke parents' footsteps. They go the other direction and oftentimes too far where it's dysfunctional.
And that's in Rachel's book, Know Yourself.

Yeah, which hasn't really happened for Janet. It's not like they're over savers.
They're not, you know what I mean? A lot of people are.

If they grow up and their parents are dysfunctional,

they don't heal from that and they go but in Janet. Yeah, and in Jana's case.
Yeah, Jana, all you got to do is just follow the baby's steps. You're not even going to be close to your mother.

Even if it was half of what we just pulled up, that's $2 million at retirement. You're fine.
You guys are going to be great. You really are.
You got to make some moves.

Stay away from the Nigerian Prince. Yeah.
Oh, no.

Man, they prey on the elderly, though. I'm not kidding you.
That is like the scam of the century. That's been around since before the internet.
No, it was like the forward, the forward, the forward.

We used to get it in the mail, snail mail. I used to get the Nigerian prince offer in the mail snail mail before there was email, before there was an internet.

And the worst is the dating catfish stuff happening. People in a relationship with someone.
I never understood why anybody wanted to date a catfish. I'm so confused.
Oh, my God.

Such a boomerang. Man, we've got some interesting ones on here.
Jade sniffed one out the other day on the air. Yeah, that she had never even met the guy, right?

Yeah, the moment she was getting ready to send her 401k to this dude and put it in stupid Bitcoin. And then we're like, so how many times have you all actually, oh, I've never actually met him.

I'm like, oh, catfish, catfish. Uh-oh, whoa, wow, wow.
Oh, man.

So bad.

Oh, man. You're not her, Jana.
Jana, you're going to be great. You really are.
Listen, if your family puts the fun in dysfunction, boys and girls, it just means you don't have to be that.

That's all it means.

You don't have to follow them. I know it's scary.
That is. That's terrifying.

And just the burden that you're going to be for your kids, right? Like you feel all of that. And so, because of that, that's part of the motivation to change.
So you can change your family tree.

You're different. You're a different branch.
You're creating something completely new for your kids. And it's beautiful.
You're going to work this system.

You have time. The passion that you have to not be that, use that passion to work this system.
And then you won't be that. It's that simple.
It really is.

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Rob is in Syracuse. Hey, Rob, how are you? I'm good, thanks.
Good. How can we help?

I just,

I was listening to you on Sage Steel, and I didn't realize that you had had a bankruptcy in your past. And it got me thinking, do you think about the same things I do? And it was 20 years ago.

We We were a young couple.

And I just think about

the debt that was discharged. And I keep a list.
And I just wonder if you ever think about that.

About whether I...

I know I'm never going to pay it back because they're never going to take it. But I just was wondering if it was something that you or anybody else thinks about.

Yeah, people think about it because they're people of honor. And the people of honor signed a debt and they know they owed it.

And the law says, according to bankruptcy, that you don't owe it anymore, but your heart still is

tender to that.

And so all that means is you're a good person. Now, obsessing about it and continuing to worry about it,

I wouldn't do that. I instead would just accept grace, move on.

And, you know, you can think about the time I, you know, when I was 16 years old, I got the car keys the first night. I got my driver's license.
I went to the pizza at my dad's pickup.

And the first thing I did is I backed into a guy's Corvette.

Now, I had to pay for that and fix it obviously and my dad did. Nobody was happy.
Not the Corvette guy, not my dad, not me. Nobody was happy in the equation.

But I don't think about that all the time. It's an interesting scar because it was really traumatic the first night you got your license, right?

But it's also, you know, I was a 16-year-old kid, you know,

everybody makes mistakes. I just happened to do it with a pickup and a Corvette.
But, you know, move on, Dave.

Don't sit up at night and worry about that. So you don't want to take it too far, but to have a tender heart towards it just means you're a good person.

In my case, mine manifested itself with the bankruptcy stuff years later. About 10 years after we filed bankruptcy, we were making substantial money again.

And

I woke up in the middle of the night with a very vivid dream, and I felt very, very sure God was telling me to go back and pay it back.

And I told my wife, and she said, absolutely not. Those people pissed all over us.
We're not giving them a dime. Because they, man, we had some jerks we dealt with.

We had some people that did all kinds of illegal stuff, all kinds of stuff. It was our fault.
We caused it, but man, it was, she's like, no way. And I'm like, yeah, way.

I'm pretty sure this was God, and I'm pretty sure we need to do this. No, we're not doing that.
So two years went by, and I finally,

by then we're making even more money, and the amount of the bankruptcy was fairly small in comparison. And I'm like, Sharon, we're supposed to do this.

I really want to go back and do this. I've got the money.
And she said, no.

And we actually sat down and met with our pastor in a marriage counseling session over it because we were arguing about it and couldn't get a resolution. And I was very sure.

And so we ended up, she acquiesced. And I said, look, we spend more than this on other stuff.
It's what I think we're supposed to do. It's not, she says, not the money.
It's the principle.

I know, but we needed it. So anyway, she finally went along with it.
And we did go back. And it was a real pain

12, 13 years after the bankruptcy to get some banker who it's not his money. They don't have a way to put it on the books because it's off the books.

And we had, it was a, it was actually a lot of work to get

to get these people to take money. It was crazy.

Yes, that's, that's what I was thinking about too. I was like, who's going to, who's going to

found an individual that was on there, like, you know, somebody like that, they're like, oh, yeah, I'll take the money. And I had a few of those.

But then one guy's like, oh, don't worry about it. I'm like, yeah, I'm worried about it.
I need to do this. And he's like, okay, and send me a check.
So I did. And then most people were that way.

But then some of these banks, they were just morons, but the banks are. So funny.
They're morons.

But I also don't tell that story very often, Rob, because it sounds like a humble brag for one thing.

And the other thing is I don't want to put it forth as a principle. that I believe that everyone should go back and do that.
That's mandatory.

I don't think everyone should go back and do that. I think I was told to, and it's probably, it's easy to surmise I was told to because I'm in this position.

And so I needed to be, I needed to have a little bit, you know, be a little bit more above reproach, so to speak. But even then, I don't tell people.

And so I'm often, you know, the haters on the internet are like, Dave Ramsey filed bankruptcy. He's just, he's a thief.
He stole the money. And they don't even know I went back and paid it.

And I, and I don't go into the comment section and go, yes, I did. You know,

just let it go. Screw it, you know? But

so I would not impose that upon you legalistically is what I'm saying.

Actually,

I'm glad I heard the story, but I really wanted to let you know that it was a lot of your principles when I was reading back 20-some years ago after filing bankruptcy that got me back on track.

Good.

Good. Praise God.
That's why we're here, man. Hey, that's a great question.
That's a good discussion. And I don't know if I would keep a list anymore.
He said he keeps a list at all.

Unless you feel

some kind of spiritual direction or

because honestly, I was not thinking about it.

And I just, you know, what, 10 times in your life you have a dream that's that vivid that wakes you up and you can't go back to sleep.

And I'm sitting at my computer and I wrote down the details of the dream. I've got it in the file, in an email to myself, or in a Word document to myself, because it was that vivid.

And that doesn't happen that often. I dream every night and I don't have any idea what it is.
Right, right.

But so I really felt like that's what it was. But I'm not sure.
I'll know when I get to heaven for sure. But,

and it's not why I'll get to heaven either, by the way.

So, but the

but the prompting and leading that was something bigger than you to do something, and that could be anything in life, and this happened to be this.

Yeah, um, and for, yeah, and that's not for everyone's story, to your point.

But it's very interesting with bankruptcy that on the one end of the spectrum, there are people that are very flippant about it. It's like, ah,

I'll just file bankruptcy. I'll just file bankruptcy.
I don't know.

They feel no obligation. Yeah.
And on the other end of the spectrum, you got Rob still keeping a list. 20 years later.
20 years later. So, yeah, I'd probably either pay it back or burn the list.

You need to get off your plate. One side or the other.
Get off your plate and quit having it hanging back there in the back of your head. Let's move on to something else.

And I'm perfectly fine with you walking in grace and just let it go. Perfectly fine with that.

Again, I'm not going to take my story and impugn that as a pharasitical principle on everyone else because I don't think that's what I was getting.

That was not the sense I had from it. It was a very nuanced individual situation.

Madeline is in Chicago. Hey, Madeline, what's up?

Hi. Hey, how can I help?

So I just graduated in May from college, and my student loan payments will start up in January.

It's $22,000 in debt, and then I also have $2,500 in credit card debt.

So, my question with the loans is they all have different interest rates, subsidized versus unsubsidized, and just the best way to go about paying those effectively. How many do you have?

It's 10 different loans. Wow, lots of little ones.
Okay. So, a couple of 2,000 here and there.
List them smallest to largest.

Okay. Pay minimum payments on everything except the little one, and attack the little one as fast as you can.

And throw that credit card dead in there, too. Is the credit cards multiple credit cards?

Just one credit card. Okay, yeah.
So put the $2,500 credit card in that.

You probably have some student loans smaller than that.

Yeah. Yeah.
So you're going to do those first. You're going to cut up the credit card, by the way.
Quit using a stupid thing.

I'm not kidding. That wasn't funny.

Jamala, are you working?

Yeah, I am. I have a part-time remote job, and then I also work as a waitress.
Okay, how much do you bring in a month?

Monthly, I'm bringing in about

$5,000. Good.
Wow, good for you. And if you can live on nothing and drop three grand on that, you're going to be done in no time.
You'll be done by next Christmas.

Awesome. Yeah.

I mean, you got $25,000, so $2,000 a month, you're done by Christmas next year.

And that includes if you don't get a full-time job making more, you know? What's your degree in? Yeah, that would be my goal. Marketing.
Oh, good. Oh, yeah.
You'll get a better job than that.

Yeah, go get a big job, knock it out even before that. But I want you done by Christmas.
Say, Christmas is my date. Say it out loud.

Christmas is my date. All right, knock it out, kiddo.
You've got that.

Hang on. We're going to send you a copy of the Total Money Makeover book to show you how to do it.

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Our scripture of the day, Romans 15, 4, for everything that was written in the past was written to teach us,

so that through the endurance taught in the scriptures and the encouragement they provide, We might have hope.

Jim Rohn said, formal education will make you a living. Self-education will make you a fortune.
Sam is in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hey, Sam, how are you? Hey, I'm actually in Wilson, North Carolina.

How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help?

I'm newly engaged,

and we've had a discussion. Me and my now fiancé have had a discussion about buying a house.

My grandfather's house, he just passed away, and my family is thinking about selling it. They're going to keep it in the family.
They're thinking about selling it for a tax value.

I really like the house. She's not really sure about the location.

And so that was my first question. And the other question would be: how much money do I need to save to buy a house?

Okay.

How old are you, Sam?

I am. I just turned 26.
Okay. And what do you make a year?

$62,000. What's your fiancé make a year?

$54,000. Cool.
And when will you all be getting married?

Have it set a date. We're getting through the holidays, but probably sometime in 27.

Okay. All right.

And

what will your grandfather's house cost if you were to buy it?

Tax value just under $250,000, like $246,000 or $247,000, I think. What do you think the thing's really worth?

I looked it up on Zillow and all the other websites, and it's listed for $340,000 to $360,000. So I feel like I'll be gaining a little bit.
Yeah.

Yeah. And um

okay. And do you have any money?

Um

little to none. I mean I've got I've started up with Financial Peace University.
I've started my nest egg kind of adding to it every month.

I've got around twenty seven twenty eight hundred dollars saved up in a um

money market account for the credit union. And you're out of debt?

Well, I've got $4,000 worth of debt.

Paying that off, that ring hadn't even made one payment on it yet.

I intend on paying that off before the end of the year.

This year or next? This year.

So in the next couple of weeks?

Yes. Okay, that's good.
All right. So you'll be debt-free, and then you'll start saving.
When are you required to close on your grandfather's house?

Could you rent it for a year while you save up some money? Yes, I can. That is also another option.
So right now it's not a house. Okay, now here's the last question.

What happens when you want to sell the house?

I would sell it back to my mom or to my family. What if they can't buy it?

Do you have to sell it at tax value then, or do you can you sell it for full price? I would sell it to them for whatever I bought it for. Then don't buy it.
Yeah, it's not a good investment.

No, don't buy it.

Because you can't make any money on it. Right.
If you buy a h house for $200,000 or $300,000 and 10 years from now, you have to sell it for $200,000,000. That was a bad deal.
Right.

It needs to go up in value.

Unless the family can all agree, Sam, that, you know, by the time you want to sell it, you can sell it for what it's worth.

Yeah, that you can sell it for what it's worth, or you can sell it outside the family if no one wants it for what it's worth either. Yeah.

It's kind of like a first right of refusal, but I'd give them first right of refusal, but if they don't want to buy it for what it's worth, I mean, the thing could be worth a million dollars in a few years.

Yeah.

And I mean, it's on family land. We got 650 acres,

and there's a bunch of barns that you don't get 650 acres with this, though. No, no, no.
I get an acre and then I get some barns that are actually on the farm. Yeah, you don't get anything.

You get an acre of land and a house. The rest of it is just you have access to, which, by the way, if you drive over there, you'd have access to it anyway.

You don't have to live there to have access to that. Right.

So, no,

that's not reality.

I don't think this is a good idea because I think you're going to get trapped. Mm-hmm.

Thank you. That's how I've been kind of feeling.
Yeah,

I think the family has. Fiancé has a good, you know, gut instinct about her too, you know, that she's, she's a little bit like, uh, I don't know about the family thing and the location and all of it.

When you guys buy your first house, Sam, you want it to be a win. You want it to be a fun experience, something that you guys both agree on.

And it's it's kind of that first big purchase as a married couple and starting it with any level of hesitation or baggage or not excitements just kind of puts a weight.

And if I owned a farm with a house in the corner of it like your mom and your aunt do, I really wouldn't want it to get outside the family. So I understand their motivation.
That makes sense.

But it doesn't, it's not a good deal for Sam and his new bride is the problem.

And so your mom's not being unreasonable with her request, but it puts you in a position where you guys can't make a good deal out of it for the two of you.

So it's just that what they need from it and what you need from it are too far apart. Yep.
And it's not that either one's wrong or anybody's bad or anything like that.

It's not stupid or something like that. It's just, it just doesn't fit your life.
And really, I wouldn't, if I'm them, I don't want you to be able to sell the thing later. Right.

You know, that doesn't be.

I mean, I've got some properties. I don't want the corner of it gone.

You know, I've got some properties I bought the corner in and I don't want to sell it again. You know, that kind of thing.
So, no, I don't. I can understand that.
That makes sense.

But if I were you two, I think it's a lot cleaner for the two of you to

get it. If you wanted to rent it for a year or two and while you're saving up money to buy, then that'd be great.
Because the more money you put down, of course, the faster you can pay it off.

Alyssa is in Albuquerque. Hey, Alyssa, what's up?

Hi, Dave. Thank you for taking my call.
Sure. How can we help?

So just a tiny backstory is when I was dating my husband, who I've now been married to for 15 years, his mother used to tell me that she was running out of money, that they were going to be poor soon because she was a trust fund

child,

and they were going to run out of money. So before my husband and I got married, I asked him, you know, what does this mean for us? And he said, nothing.

My parents are going to take care of their finances themselves. They're going to handle it.

This will not impact us,

which I should have known was not true. Fast forward 15 years, his parents are out of money.

They own their home outright. It's a small property, probably worth $500,000.

And then they also have another small piece of land in the mountains with a cabin on it. That's just a shell of a building,

probably worth $80,000.

But they do not receive enough income to live. They receive maybe $900 from Social Security.

They never worked much. They are 85.
My mother-in-law is 85, and my father-in-law is,

or he's 80, about 80.

We have gone, yes.

We have gone and built them a casita on their house so they could get some rental income.

and that brings in about a thousand dollars a month but they still are cannot live and it's basically medical bills um and things like that so we have now started paying their utilities and their health insurance

they need to sell the house

exactly this so so i keep telling my so my so i tell my husband what about i know you don't i know most people don't like this but a reverse mortgage no they don't need to do do a reverse mortgage.

They need to sell the house.

They need to sell the land. They need to sell the land on the mountain, and they need to sell the house, and they need to buy a $200,000 one-bedroom condo.

Okay.

And that'll give them $300,000, $400,000 to live off of. How's their health? Not good.

No, not good. Okay.
So it's kind of, yeah, yeah. So it's not like another, they're not going to be 100, probably.

I don't think so. I mean, you know, who knows? Who knows? God willing.

Sure.

But not while my mother-in-law's had a heart attack. She's had a mini stroke.
And she goes, she rides the ambulance to the emergency room once a month.

Thus, her medical bills continue to grow.

Yeah, they need to get a sweet little one-bedroom condo in an area that's very nice and peaceful.

And they need to sell off all their stuff, and they need to sell off the land, and they need to sell off the house. because they didn't save.
And no, you guys don't need to support them.

Your husband needs to stop this.

The reason he wants to do this is because he wants to inherit this property. I don't want to inherit the property.
It's not that fancy. No, thank you.

And you don't want a property with a reverse mortgage on it? No.

That puts this Hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it.

In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.