“I Want To Trust My Husband, But He Wants To Get Rich Quick"

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Normal is broke, and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life.
From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey.

Jade Washall, number one best-selling author Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Open phones here at 888-825-5225.

Nicole is in Boston. Hi, Nicole.
How are you? Hello, I'm well. Thank you for taking my call.
Sure, what's up?

I'm in the situation where I very much want to trust my husband's judgment on finances and our future, but we've hit like a rocky patch here where we just keep

well he just keeps kind of digging us into more and more debt in the in like the hopes that we'll get out of of it one day with some just risky real estate world stuff.

And I don't know how to dig ourselves out of that and like maintain respectful marital boundaries doing that. And I just, my opinion kind of gets thrown aside because I'm not as risky.

I don't want to take risks.

Well, it's not the risk. It's the get-rich quick, right? The get-rich quick.
I'm not a fan of that strategy.

So here's the deal. You're not called to respect your husband if every time he gets in a car, he drives it into a ditch.

You go, you suck at driving.

That's not disrespectful of your husband as a husband. It's disrespectful of his driving ability because he sucks at driving.

So don't get this confused that somehow respect is, I'm supposed to turn a blind eye to idiocy.

That's not respect. That's just, that's just enabling.

Then when you give respect and you give a compliment for something that he actually does right, we don't know if it's real because you also endorse stupid stuff by calling and call it respect.

No, no, he can't drive a car. He keeps running in the ditch.
Honey, you need driving lessons and I'm not riding with your butt until you learn how to drive. You suck at driving.

That's not really, I mean, some version of that, nicer than that, is not disrespectful.

That's not disrespecting the position of that you love your man, you love your husband, you think he's a good guy. That's just telling him the truth.
He sucks at driving. You're telling him the truth.

And even a friend would do that. And he sucks at handling money.

His views of money are broken. So that's how you balance it.
You don't balance it.

You're getting confused about what respect means. It doesn't mean turning a blind eye to misbehavior or incompetence.
That's not respect. So tell us

what hole you're in and what he's thinking of doing next to get out.

Yeah,

so it's this week that this would be happening, and my answer is like, I don't want to do this. And so

his opinion is we have to do this. And so that's why I'm so glad you took my call.

Um, our hole that we're in is that he has a very problematic property, it's always been a problem property, and it always takes the cash flow of my small business and his other cash-flowing property.

But it's hit the point now where we have to max out credit cards, which is against my everything,

to basically use those as to pay for all of the construction, all the things. And now it's hit a point where the threshold's so high we have to take out

a bigger loan to just cover everything to try try and get it to sell. How many properties?

How many properties do you have total? We now have three, and we've been trying to get rid of this one for a while. It's just a troublesome property.
What do you owe on it?

$6 million.

And what's it worth?

It just got appraised at like

just over $6, not much, though. Is it residential or is it

an apartment complex residential?

And so

you can't sell it for what you owe on it?

We can sell it.

It just takes so long to sell them. Like, it always takes over a year to get the packages put together.
So he says, like, again, I'm not in this world.

I don't know what this all really means, which is why I wanted to ask, like, if we just walked away from this mortgage that here, take it.

Like, we're not personally liable for it. It's business liability.
Yeah, but but that's

are you sure you're not personally liable for it i am i'm 90 sure i'm not

okay

again i this is why i meet you guys i don't know what they make they make non-recourse loans but seldom as small as six million dollars if it's a non-recourse loan and you can walk away from it yeah i just walk away from it because it's not worth what you owe on it If it's a non-recourse loan, put the keys in a shoebox and tell them to come get them.

But I don't think it is.

I want you to be sure you're not personally liable.

Just because it's in an LLC doesn't mean he didn't sign it personally.

Yeah, I think it's a non-recourse loan, but I can be sure before I did that.

But

if your numbers are correct, okay, if it's an $8 million property and it's going to take a little while to sell it, then let's sell it for $7 million or $6.5 million and get a little bit out of it and sell it.

But if your numbers are correct, that it's worth what you owe on it, and your only option to keep the thing running is to go deeper in debt again, and this time personally, in order to fix up this property.

Yeah, that's the option.

No, I'm not doing that.

It's good money after bad, is what you're thinking, and I am too. But I don't know that, you know, I want you to verify the numbers, and

I'm not sure if you're just pissed off or if that's the real numbers.

Oh, those are the real numbers. I want you to get in there.
Well, I want him to say it.

Yeah, because what happens if you tell him, hey, I want to start the process of selling this today. I don't want to do

it. I'm not going to borrow money on it.
No. We're not.
Okay, that's off the table. Now what are we going to do? We're either going to give it back or we're going to sell it as is.

Which one are we going to do? Well, we can't give it back. I did sign personally.
Oh, crap. Now then you got to sell it, right? Because you're going to get your butt sued.
So, but

if it's a non-recourse and it truly is worth six before I put another million into this sinkhole, yeah.

And this is a lower income property and it's a pain in the butt to manage. I can tell by the way you're talking about it.

You got a bunch of crummy renters, and

it's not a fun property to own.

And by the way, if you say your opinion on this and do what Dave said, and your husband says that that doesn't matter, and he goes ahead and does what he wants to do, that's also your signal that you guys need help beyond this.

It's no longer a money problem at that point, right?

Yeah, we don't do big deals. We don't do deals of size, whatever size is, at the Ramsey's without both being in agreement, period, and at the Warshaw's as well.
Fast.

We don't give large sums to a charity or a ministry. We don't buy things of size without talking about it.

And the things that we buy that aren't of size, we have talked about it in the form of it's a category and a budget, so it fits. And so, you know,

you can buy that beef tenderloin. It's in the food budget, but that's, you know, whatever.
So

but, because, yeah,

that's the whole thing. So, Nicole, the deal is this, you guys are running on two different tracks, and you can eat on the same track.
That's first and foremost.

As far as the particular property goes, then

if you get on the same track, that'll better inform what to do with the property.

And you'll feel better about if you decide to keep it and work it

and you use some of the cash flow. But so far, it's not been a blessing.
It's been a curse.

But, Dave, I liked how you set up the very beginning because we get that that call a lot about a spouse feeling like it's being disrespectful

to

go in the opposite direction of what their spouse is saying.

I don't know.

We're hillbillies, so arguing is an art form.

So I don't know.

I mean,

I do not think my wife is a bad Christian wife because sometimes she looks at me and goes,

No, I don't like that. Absolutely.

That means like she's a full-grown woman with an opinion, is all that means. That's right.
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Brett is in Flint, Michigan. Hey, Brett, how are you?

I'm all right. Good.
How can I help?

So,

between my wife and I,

we've got approximately $250,000 or under $250,000 in debt.

Most of it resides in our mortgage and her student loans.

Is it

I had a weird childhood, so I'm kind of really terrified of being homeless again.

Is it stupid to pay off the mortgage before the student loans? I know you can't bankruptcy the student loans and you can sell the house and that kind of stuff, but

it's not stupid. I would not

categorize either idea of paying off the debt as stupid. I think it's smart that you're thinking in those terms of being debt-free.

Can you tell us how much of the $250 is the mortgage and how much of it is the student loans?

They're honestly both about $108. Okay.
And then we've got

I've got a small personal loan because my mower on my business kind of crapped out. So I had to spend a bunch of money just so I could fix that.
Got you.

That's about $2,900.

We're trying to sell the trailer that we were living in.

But we've got about $700 left on the personal loan for that. Okay.
Where what else do you have?

Like $4,000 on the card. And that's...

You were living in a mobile home before?

Yeah. Okay.
And what is it up for sale for?

We have it up for sale for $40,000 right now. We haven't really had too much interest.
For how much? We're talking to

$40,000. A lot of the

trailers in the park that we're going for are selling for like

$60 to $66. What do you owe on it?

We only owe $700 more on that. $700.

We still have. Yeah.

And how long has it been for sale?

Two or three months. Okay.
Have you had nibbles? In October, so roughly then. Had nibbles?

Not really, no. I also don't think our realtor is really trying too hard to sell it either.
I think you need a new real estate agent. I think you need a realistic price.

And I think you need to get rid of that dadgum thing yesterday. That cleans up a whole bunch bunch of stuff, man.
Even if you took 30 for it,

it puts 30,000 towards all this debt, right?

That's kind of the goal is to get it. What's your household income?

My wife's is consistently at about 60.

My business kind of fluctuates, so I'd say roughly

between like

25

and 25. What kind of work? What kind of business? I mean, you make $25,000 a year.

I do, well, that's just with the business because it runs just partially. It's lawnmowing.
So then during the winter, I was doing snow plowing last year,

but my truck for the plowing kind of crapped out on me. So now

I just got a job

for the winter. I'm looking for another job right now also,

but that job's only like $15,000 an hour.

Okay, so

you're making $25,000 or $30,000 a year and she's making $60,000.

Yes. Okay.
All right. And your business is not doing that well?

No, this year was a little rough and weird. My sole employee, his sister, got married out of the country.
He told me about it a while in advance.

But

just because of the time period, I couldn't take on more work. So that way I didn't destroy what reputation I had by not showing up.
But by the time he

hire somebody and fire him if he's not going to be at work.

Get somebody who comes to work.

Well, it was only for that.

Well, it destroyed your business.

Your business is that freaking fragile. Don't defend it.
The guy don't come to work and it messes up your whole summer. You got to get somebody to come to work, man.

You got to get this thing in gear. Your business sucks.
You are not making any money. You're starving to death.
You're making a dollar an hour and you're working your legs off.

So you got to get that profitability up this coming year or you got to go get like a real job and shut this thing down because you're not making any money. So let me ask you this.

So can we classify the fact that you were homeless as a child as trauma? Would it be okay to call it that?

Yes. It was traumatic, not just dramatic.

So

that's what makes you think about losing your home and wanting to pay it off before you pay off all this other stuff, right?

Yeah. Okay.
Well, what happened when you were a child has no bearing on what happens to you as an adult unless you repeat exactly the same patterns.

And so Dr. Deloney says, he does a lot of trauma work, John Deloney that's on the air here with us.

He says, when you've had trauma and your body starts thinking, you're right back there again and your shoulders rise up and you get tense across the neck and your heartbeat changes and your eyes start to dilate because it feels like it felt when you were a kid, but nothing like when you were a kid was going on, then you need to stop and say facts are your friends.

The facts are that you two make close to $100,000 a year in Flint, Michigan. The facts are you only have $108,000 owed on your mortgage.
Very reasonable.

The facts are you've been struggling at your business and it's not doing great, but you do have a good, solid income. You're not going to be homeless.

That is an irrational fear.

And we don't act on and we don't make plans based on irrational fears.

That's not wisdom. So no.

You need to list your debts smallest to largest, pay minimum payments on everything but the little one, kick your business in the butt and get it running.

And if you don't have employees that show up and don't work, get you some more

and get this thing going.

And let's go, you know, and

let's get the truck fixed and snowplow and let's get the

lawnmower fixed without going into debt to do it. And let's keep this stuff going.
Let's start making some money.

Start stacking some cash and knocking this stuff out left and right, left and right, left and right, and being proactive and playing offense and playing for the Super Bowl instead of going, no, I think we're all going to die.

We're not going to die. Brett, do you have a budget?

Nope.

And we'll send you one today, okay?

We're going to get you started with every dollar because you're going to need that in order to know how much margin you're putting at the smallest debt, which looks like it's $4,000 on credit cards.

That's your first one. But you're not going to do it if you don't know how much to put towards it.
And every dollar is going to help you do that. What I would do, Brett, is this.

When Sharon and I went broke and lost everything and filed bankruptcy and the electricity got cut off and the water got cut off and the house was in foreclosure, it was terrifying.

And the way we chose to look at that was, we will never be here again

because we are going to analyze how we got here and repeat exactly zero of those steps. Never again, that became our mantra.
We wanted t-shirts printed.

Never again is American Express going to call my house unless it's a wrong number.

I hate those people. Never again am I doing business with a large bank, with these super banks.
They will slit your throat and watch you bleed out and call it sport.

Never again am I going to be beholden to idiots and buttholes like I was. Never again am I going to be, so that's what you do.
You look back at your childhood and you go, never again.

And I'm going to get on a budget and we're going to get out of debt and we're going to work like maniacs, work six jobs. We're going to sell so much stuff the kids think they're next.
Never again.

Are we even going to be close to homeless and quit borrowing money? It puts you back in that mode again. Never again.

And, you know, you can use the trauma, use the terrifying experience as fuel to never be there again.

And so, or you can sit and go, we're doomed to repeat this. No, you're not doomed to repeat it unless you repeat, you know, the same, unless you repeat the same habits that put your parents there.

That's right. Which, by the way, was borrowing a bunch of dadgum money was one of the things they did.
Well, that's what I was going to say.

The reason he's feeling that way, though, the reason those alarm bells are going off is because he is.

He's doing things that he knows he shouldn't be doing, and he's starting to feel the effect of it.

So he needs to listen to what his body is telling him, which is, dude, you're about to run off a cliff. Yep, yep, yep, yep.
That's a warning sign.

Yeah, stop it.

Never again.

Never again.

Never again.

Never again will I be there. No, thank you.
You don't have anything I want badly enough to go into debt to get it to put one of you idiot bankers in my life. Never again.

Never.

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Aaron is with us in Colorado Springs. Hey, Aaron, how are you?

I'm having a day. How are you doing, Dave? Better than I deserve.
What's up?

So for the past three years, I've had a lot of issues with the IRS and the Colorado Department of Revenue.

My former employer that I worked with for 27 years, somehow my Social Security number got tied to their Shopify account.

And the feds, as well as Colorado State, have been coming at me for the last three years on back income tax that I owe them. them.

And

today I received notification.

My apologies. They're going to start garnishing my wages.

And I'm just in a tough spot. And I've reached out to my former employer multiple times to try to fix this.
And they've done nothing

to help me. So what does the IRS say you owe them?

Over $180,000. What does the Colorado State say you owe them?

Right now they're saying $13,000 and some change.

Okay. But the $13,000

right now I'm making about $130,000. Okay, were you a partner in the former business in any way?

I was not. You were simply a W-2 employee.

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, dude, you need to hire an attorney.

That's what I keep on thinking I just try to

today.

You should have called them before you called us.

You need to get a tax attorney, someone that does taxes, and they need to call Colorado and say, oh, look, if you garnish this guy, we're going to sue you for $20 million

because it's not his debt. It's a clerical error.
Right. And you can't garnish him.
There's nothing to be afraid of, honey. You don't know the money.

It's not your money.

You don't know it.

It's an error by your former employer, and you're probably going to sue them, get them off their butt, too. But joyful, joyful, light some people up, baby.

I know. I contacted a tax attorney about six months ago because I put a lot of faith in this business here in Colorado Springs because

they're a Christian business. And

when I talked to the tax attorney, they're like, well, it's going to cost you $6,000 out of pocket for us to do it. And I was like, I just can't afford to have it.

You can't afford not to do it.

Because Colorado's getting ready to take $6,000 out of your butt any minute.

Yeah. You may as well give it to an attorney and fight back.

Yesterday, why did you wait six months?

Did you think this was just going to go away, honey?

No, I honestly.

The IRS keeps sending me notices saying that they're working on it and that they need more time. No,

wait a minute. You actually, here's what just came out of your mouth.
You just said the IRS is competent.

That's hilarious.

That's a funny joke. And that they're going to investigate this for you.

The IRS is going to help you.

Come on, man.

Really? You know who's going to help you? You.

Starting today.

So either call that tax attorney back or get a new one. And

somebody needs to be in touch by the close of business with Colorado so they don't start garnishing your dad gum wages man because here's what you get for doing nothing somebody will do stuff to you you can't do nothing nothing is not one of your options that strategy sucks

So

either call that tax attorney back or get online at Ramsey Solutions, find one of our tax pros in the area and have them make a recommendation.

You need legal representation by the close of business today. They need to be in touch with somebody

and say, Hold on, Junior, this guy does not owe any money. This is a clerical error.

And if it can't get fixed by working directly with the tax institutions, you may have to sue your good Christian former employer who can't seem to help you get rid of $180,000.

That does not qualify as good Christian, by the way. Hello.

Pissing on your employees does not qualify.

Hello? Thank you, Dave.

I hear you. I appreciate it.
Dude,

you need to be the hero of the story, not the victim. Get up and get them.

Because this is not going, it's not going to fix itself, man.

Okay?

There's no tooth fairy that's going to land in here that the tax fairy is not going to come visit you and fix this.

You're going to have to be like a grown-up and go attack this situation with a vengeance, otherwise it's going to take you down.

Because you don't want to screw around with the IRS for the next decade. Yeah, and they're wrong.
You're in the position of power. You're right.
You have the information. I just feel like

your countenance is very low, as though everybody else knows more about this. As if you have no options.
You're the one with all the options.

But listen, you hire an attorney who gets excited about this, not one who's like, I don't

know what we're going to do. If that's the attorney, fire them before you hire them.
You want an attorney that gets mad like I am right now.

Oh, I appreciate that, Dave, more than you know. And your book changed my life and made me a believer.
I want you to know that. I appreciate that.

Hey, hit this thing right in the nose and see if it'll bleed, okay?

I will. Yeah, knock it down.
Knock it down.

This has owned you every waking moment for the last year, hadn't it?

The last three years.

You need to be free from this, and the only one's going to set you free is you

with action.

Okay?

So get on Ramsey Solutions, talk to one of our tax pros in the area, tell them what your situation is, and you tell them I'm fired up about it. I said, Dave's fired up about this, okay?

And get me an attorney that's fired up.

You want an attorney that even you don't really like.

That's the kind of attorney you want. Okay.

You want one that pisses off everybody because that's his job as an attack dog. Sick him.

All right. Her job, whatever.
Get it. And that's, man, she.

That's crazy. He's letting these, the IRS could care less, number one.

These people could care less. No one is.
They're going to become incompetent bureaucrats.

No one is. Yeah.
No one's thinking about this. He's.
Including the former employer. How embarrassing.

If we accidentally did that to one of our people here,

I would be so embarrassed that I would have fixed it in 20 seconds. Yeah.
And somebody would have got fired. Yeah.
Hello. Wow.

Man. Wow.

Not if it was an honest mistake, but it goes on a long time.

Three years. $180,000, too.
He's been losing sleep for $30,000.

We didn't sell like two paintings on Shopify here. This is like something big going down here.

Wow.

Wow.

Oh, man.

If you want something done, sometimes you just got to do it yourself, Dave. No, every time.
You can't be waiting around some of these fools. Every time.
You got to do it yourself.

When you guys, listen, when you know something's wrong and you kick it, you put, you kick it up under the rug, kick it up under the rug, you know what you get? Lumpy rug. That's what you get.

And these things have a high rate of resurrection, like 100% chance it's going to resurrect. And it looks like a zombie when it comes out from under the rug.

Now go ahead and kill it now so you don't have to deal with it later.

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John is in New Hampshire. Hey, John, how are you?

I am doing good, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve.
What's up?

So, my main concern is retirement. I am 47 years old, and I was laid off from my job in early December of last year.
I don't have anything in retirement.

I had to kind of use the retirement I had to survive until I was able to get a new job. Have you gotten a new job? Have you got a new job now? Yes,

I have a job now. I started in 80 years.
What do you make? Yeah, I'm making 80 a year. Good.

And I'm also in the process of interviewing for a better job that if I get it, will be about 110-ish

a year. Great.

That's all good. But I have nothing in retirement and I've got some debt and I live with family right now.

So between needing to get a house of my own and retirement and getting out of debt, I'm just kind of worried and not sure what the best way to accomplish all that is. Gotcha.
Especially at 47.

You're single?

Yes, single, no kids. How much debt?

Total debt, 52,

just over 52. On what?

That is a mix of credit cards and then two vehicles. And I know one vehicle is a motorcycle that needs to just go away.
I understand how much do you owe on the motorcycle?

28,8,000? Holy smokes. Yes.

Okay, so that's half your debt.

Wow. Okay.
And how much do you owe on your car?

Just over $9,000. Okay, that's good news.
I've been

along. There's not much.
Okay, and so that's

37.

So what, and you got 20 on credit cards?

14. 14.
Okay, cool. Any other debt that I'm missing?

No, I believe that covers everything. Just normal things that are month-to-month, like insurance and

couple streaming services. Okay.
All right.

Well, I mean, the glaring thing is the motorcycle, isn't it? Obviously. Right.
Yeah. So it's half your debt and it's not needed and all that.

So, yeah, that thing, you need to get that sold before Christmas. Somebody needs a new Christmas present with your motorcycle.

So with the loan. no, I wasn't kidding, man.
I mean, really, you need to get a restaurant motorcycle right now.

With the loan that I have on it, obviously nobody's going to pay more than what the bike's worth and more than they have. What's it worth?

It's worth about 25-ish. Not a lot.
So who do you owe the 28 to?

That is America.

What is it? American.

It's a credit union. Oh, good.
Okay. Well, swing down.
Is it a local branch there?

No, I recently, in April, moved to New Hampshire from Vegas. Oh, yeah.
Okay. Call the credit union back at the hometown and say, hey, guys, I'm upside down three grand on this motorcycle.

I got to get the thing sold. I need to sign a note for the difference.

Okay. I'm going to send you 25 and sign a note for the difference, and y'all need to release the title.

Okay.

Get that arranged with your, they'll do it.

Get the credit union manager on the phone, and then you just sign sign up whatever it brings you send them all the money and then you sign a note for the difference now we're down to three thousand okay that's good that's gone quickly quickly

this is like glaring bad thing right here out of all your stuff nothing's really stupid except that one and that was like super stupid right there okay so now

then you're gonna get an apartment the cheapest you can possibly get and be out on your own again

like a grown man making $110,000, $80,000 or whatever you're going to be making.

Somewhere in between, yeah. Yeah.

And then we're going to clean up this debt, and we're going to build an emergency fund, and then we're going to start socking money away, and you're going to be a millionaire when you retire.

Is that okay?

So it's not too late at 47,000. No, it's not too late.

Listen,

I'm 65. That's so insulting.

That's your homework. That's your homework.
When you get off this call, I already played around with the numbers for you, but I want you to do it for yourself.

If you're going to be making $110,000 a year, you know, taking home around seven, you invest 15% of that, $1,000 a month, $1,050.

And that's assuming you're never going to increase your income, which is false. You're going to keep getting better and better.

But even if you did a thousand bucks a month for the next 20 years, you're going to get really close to a million bucks. And you're going to do better than that, right?

Right. So I want that job.
My home

in the middle of the job. You're going to get the job.
And if you don't get that job, you'll get another job. And you've already got one making 80.

Right. Okay.
Just, you know, then take three more extra jobs

until you get the new job. Just work all time, man.

Clean up his mess.

You need to look at the future because looking at the future is going to motivate what you do right now.

Because if you look at that number and you say, you know what, that's not good enough, then that's going to motivate what you do with your income going forward, right? Yep. Right.

You can play around and say, well, what does it look like if I invest $1,500? What does it look like if I invest $1,800, right? And that's going to inform what you do today. Same thing with the debt.

Plug it into every dollar. See how long it's going to take currently.
And if you're not happy with that, you get to change that. You You get to side hustle.

The good news for you is you're single and unattached and you're at your sister's house. So you need to be working like 20 hours a day.
Time.

Yeah, you won't die from hard work. Right before you die, you'll pass out.

So just work all the time. My grandmother used to say it's a great place to go when you're broke.
Don't work.

I want you working, working, working, working, working. What's my name? I'm working John.
That's all I do. I work.
I get out of debt. I'm building wealth because I'm 47.

i don't want to retire and eat dog food i'm working working working and then you'll get this mess cleaned up you'll have an emergency fund you'll start to feel better and the lights will come on because right now they're a little dim

your your hope the hope that's not in your voice is bothering me more than your numbers and the reason that dave and i sound the way we sound is because we hear every day people doing this and they're successful and they turn it around and we know that you can too you can do this john so we're going to put you on the upgraded version of every dollar.

Hang on. We'll have Christian pick up and take care of you and get you on the budget.
But get the motorcycle sold, get five extra jobs or three extra jobs and work and work in John.

That's your name, man.

And we're going to list our debts, smallest to largest. We're going to attack them with a vengeance.
We're going to get those credit cards out tonight. Light a candle and have a plasectomy party.

Chop those puppies up. And let's move on, man.
Let's move on. It's time to do something different.
So if you keep doing what you've been doing, you're going to keep getting what you've been getting.

The last thing you want to do is be calling me at 57 living at your sister's house broke.

So let's get after it and fix it now. Time to do it.
You can do it. You can do it.

And you're right, Jay. The beautiful thing is, you and I have the

unbelievable honor of getting to meet heroes every day who looked in the mirror and said, time to change something.

And didn't wait around on

the news. That's right.
They were working. Yeah.
And many of them in a worse situation than John. Much.
Much worse. So the time, the time is,

a guy like him, you got to remember the time is going to pass anyway. The time between now and him retiring, right? God willing.
And he gets to choose what he's going to do with that time.

He can be the same, worse off, or better. And those are your three options.
And

here's what's weird. If you absolutely, I mean, we're poking fun a little bit at it, but if you work like a crazy person, like ridiculous hours, you work like no one else.

Later, you can can work like no one else. That's right.
That's right. You know, when I work kind of when I want to, hello, you know, and that's because I got financial peace a long time ago.
Yeah.

And I don't owe any of these stupid banks. They're not calling me up.
I don't have, you know, all this stuff coming at me that I can't handle.

It's not because my life's perfect. It's just I built a life that said,

I'm not going to be beholden to you people that are screwing everybody, you car companies. I mean, who loans a guy $28,000 on a motorcycle who lives at his sister's? I mean, come on.

Well, to be fair, I don't know if you've got a bunch of banks. I've never lived at his sister's yet.
That's a banker ought to have his butt kicked up around his neck. Oh, my God.

Seriously. Yeah.

And guess what? The motorcycle went down in value. Oh, I'm so shocked.
So, yeah.

The good news about him, though, I mean, John's got it. Maybe half his dadgum problem is

one stroke. Yeah.
One stroke. Yep.

And the fact that he didn't have a job for forever. And that's not.
That messed him up. Yeah.
Well, that's what got the credit card debt.

Yep, sure is.

So, this is, guys, you can do this stuff. But listen, if you want a different result, you have to put in a different recipe.

If you keep baking a cake and it keeps turning out vanilla and you wanted chocolate, you need to change the recipe. Hello.
You keep doing the same thing over and over again, expect a different result.

That's the definition of insanity. That's what the 12-steppers say.
And they're right. Don't keep doing the same thing over and over.
I just can't seem to get ahead.

Well, then quit doing the same dadgum stuff. Hello? You got to change something.
Throw some dynamite in the middle of it. Let's bust this thing up, man.
It's time, boys and girls. It's time.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. Cece's with us in Cleveland.
Hey, Cece, what's up?

Hi. Hi.
So, um, can you hear me? Yes, ma'am.

Okay, so I'm 27 and I'm in dental assisting school and I also own an online boutique, but I'm starting to pay for my mistakes I made when I was younger and they were terrible.

Like, I'm $40,000 in debt, and I'm like, I don't know what.

So

half is from my car, a Honda Civic. I'm financing it.
So $20,000 is. So you owe $20,000 on your car?

Yes. And then I was so young.
I was young and dumb, and I I decided to lease at Mercedes at like 23 years old.

And when I returned the lease, the wear and tear, the miles, and all of that, I still have to pay for that. So that's about $10,000.

And how long ago was that?

That was, I returned that car in 2023.

Okay. So they're not happy with you.
Okay.

All right. Two years ago.

And then

what's the other $10,000?

So I did take out a student loan for about $5,000 because I'm in dental school. And fascinating paid for half, so I had to take out a loan.
And then the other

amount is just from like personal loans and credit card.

And I'm not working right now. I lost my job.
So I'm like, should I file a bankruptcy or should I just drop out of school and just

went to school for $5,000? I don't understand.

For dental assistance? Oh, dental?

Okay.

I never knew any dentist that went to school for five grand. Okay.
So you paid three out of pocket and got a loan for the other five.

Well, FastFord pays for the three, and then I had to get a loan for the other. Okay.
And

what were you doing that you just got fired from?

Well, I didn't get fired. I decided that I was going to quit my job and run my business.
Oh. How much?

Because your business is bringing in a lot of income?

It was until I quit my job and started having to pay my rent with the money I made from my online business. Okay, what are you making from the online business?

Right now, I'm not making anything because I just put it on pause, but I was making about 300. Why are you stopping all the schools? Why are you stopping all the things that make money?

This is so illogical.

Because it's so hard to juggle school and running a business. And it's like I'm you're not running a business.
You stopped it.

Well, it was before I stopped it.

before I stopped it, it was hard

because

listen, okay, hear me out.

I started using it to pay my rent in my car and all my insurance. So it's like, now I couldn't drop because I'm using.

Okay, let me go back. Let me go back.
So you're a student, you're a full-time student. Can you work at least part-time at the very least? Because you got to live.

Because what's the other option, right? Because if you stop working at the other job, then you stop working working at your business. What are your options to put your lifestyle on credit, right?

And that's what you've been doing.

Yes, I know.

Not working. I know.
That's why I'm telling you. You got to go back and get a business.
The job that you quit. What were you making of the job you quit?

So I was a correctional officer for about three years, and I was making about $4,000 a month, but it's just, I wasn't happy.

And now you're really not happy because you don't have $4,000 a month. Yes, because I'm broke.
Yeah. So here's what you need to do.
You need to go get a job. Any job.
So here's the thing. Hear me out.

I got an offer at the post office.

And they pay a pretty nice amount. It's just, I'm scared it won't work with school.
Try like shit. So quit school.
You need money.

Cece.

You called me and asked me if you wanted to file bankruptcy. That was your question.
And then you're telling me you don't want to work and you want to go to school.

Wrong answer.

Is it just you, Cece? It's just you?

Yes, it's just me. I've been doing everything since I was like 17.
And you're living by yourself, or are you living with someone, a roommate? Or is it just you? No, I'm by myself. Okay.

You got to do this. And the good news is, and I told the other guy this who called in, it's just you.
You don't have to get home to a kid, to a husband, to a grandma you're taking care of.

It's just you. So you all, this is time management.
This is the problem, time management. And you understanding that this is going going to be hard for a season.

How much do you, how much time left in school?

I graduated in June. That's why I don't want to quit.
Okay, then

stay in school and work full-time. And let you.
For six whole months. When

that's it. And let your goal just be: I'm working and I'm going to school and I'm paying my rent and I'm just doing these what I'm going to call just typical adulting tasks.
I work,

I go to school, I pay my bills. And that's it.
So

something's going to be hard. The wise person chooses the hard thing they want to do instead of the hard thing happening to them.
You're going to have something that's painful and hard.

Ready, set, go. Now you decide which one you want it to be.
Now, I would rather be tired.

and a wee bit stressed from working all day and going to school than as broke as you are and scared as you are. That's hard.

So I would choose not to be where you are and choose to work full-time and go to school like a crazy girl and then get out in June and go live your best life. Yeah.

Let's talk realistically about your schedule. When you do the dental assistant thing, is it daytime? Are you going at night? How does it work?

So right now I'm in night school. That's the thing that's stopping me from finding a great job.

That you're at night? Five to nine. Yeah,

and what time is the post office job?

So I start Monday and it says 8 a.m. Uh-huh perfect um someone told me that the post office you could work 12 hours a day six days a week and that's why I'm scared

if you start at 8 a.m. you want to know when you're probably off work three

four four at the latest which means you can hop over there and get to your class at five you can grab a bite to eat don't don't not do this because somebody because somebody told you because do you want to know what that tells me i'm gonna tell you i'm i'm being your friend right now if an excuse that's that vague is enough to make you stop it's because you don't want to do it to begin with it's almost like you were looking for an excuse not to do it that's what that tells me so you have to want this for yourself cece i'm looking at the numbers i'm looking at the schedule you can do this you got the job eight to four max hop over there do the school from five to nine it's six months like dave said you can do this it's gonna be hard but you can do this

is you have to want to do it yeah

Choose your hard. Something's going to be hard.
Be a big girl and decide which one you want it to be. Do I want to be sitting here terrified, broke?

But you can't just be randomly walking out on stuff.

You just go, I don't think I want to work anymore. What got too hard? Well, the pattern is, here's the pattern.

Each one of them got too hard. You were the corrections officer.

It's tough, man. It's a mental load.
I can understand that probably is a tough job, but it got too tough. You left.
Then you started doing the online business because that seemed easier.

You did it for a while and you realized, oh, this is harder than I thought. I'm having to use my profit.
I can't invest my profit back in. I have to use some of it.
It got hard. You quit that.

Now you have this job on the table that could really break you free. And you're thinking, you haven't even done it yet.
You're just thinking it might be hard. And you're about to bail on that.

That's a pattern, Cece, that's yours to break. It's going to be hard.

Buckle up, Buttercup. It's going to to be hard.
It's going to be worth it.

Suck it up. Go get it, girl.
You can do this.

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So one of the

criticisms

of Gen Z

has been

that,

and I disagree with it, by the way, because I disagree with the premise, but I'll go ahead and lay it out there, is that Generation Z, their 20s,

are not resilient.

Okay. They don't stick with it,

do hard things.

As a generation, this is what people are saying? Yeah, yeah, it's one of the criticisms that they don't know how to do hard things.

And they don't stick through and persevere. And that is somewhat sometimes true.
I'll ask Clauder as an example, right?

So no question. She didn't want to do hard things.
And you said, you got to do hard things. If you live like no one else later, you can live like no one else.

And rejoice in your suffering the bible says because suffering produces perseverance man what yes keep going and perseverance character i've been talking about this day and character hope and hope is a gift of the holy spirit so yeah uh so there's a there's a lineage there's a suffering creates perseverance so maturity is what some of the versions say exactly exactly so the um

the thing is

What I have found is,

I mean, we've got about five, six hundred Gen Z's working here on our team, and they're the good ones. There's two kinds of Gen Z's, awesome and sucks, right? And we've got the awesome ones.

You can get the good ones. They're good.
When they're good, they're good. And they're abundance thinkers.

They believe that anything's possible because they've carried around a magic wand in their hand their whole lives. And if they push a button, stuff happens.

And so the first time something does get hard, it's sometimes it's a lack of resilience. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance.
But sometimes it's like,

what's the point in doing something hard? Because there's probably a workaround. There's a lot of tools I can do affordable.
There's some way I can work around this and not have to go through that.

And

it's the native nature of their minds, the way their minds have been programmed to live. And it's really not a bad thing.

Because really, you should stop and go, is there an easier way to do it? Absolutely. Absolutely.
And, you know, is there a workaround? What's the hack? Right?

Work smarter, not harder. What's smarter? I mean, why do I just keep running into this wall and call that perseverance? No, I should probably walk around the wall.
Hello.

And so, no, me, I'm just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, you know, like a dadgum rhinoceros or something. It's brain damaged.
And so, no, you could just move over there and walk around.

You don't have to hit the wall, dummy. It's concrete.
And so, but they're really good at looking for the workaround and looking for the hack. And sometimes

that has caused them to be accused of lack of resilience. And I think that's a wrong conclusion.
I can agree with that. Now, sometimes there's a lack of resilience.

There's a lack of per, you know, stick to it, push through.

And so really what this comes down to is if you're a Gen Z or if you're parents of teenagers right now that are walking around with a magic wand, they do not know a world

where they can't push a button. They've never experienced a world where they can't push a button and stuff shows up on their porch in 24 hours.

They don't, if you want to know what the temperature is, We used to have to go outside and look at the thermometer, and we came back in and went, it's cold.

You know, now you just push the weather out, right? Anything you want to know or anything you want to do is a magic wand in your hand. So if you parents are doing that, what I suggest

as a parenting thing, because it becomes a part of their success principles that they're going to live their life from, teach your children to do hard things. Yeah.

Yes. Put something in front of them that's hard.

And

100% of the time that any of us are doing something we've never done before, and it's hard, I'll tell you what rises up inside of you: frustration.

And then it can, with me, I just get angry. Yeah.
Not at someone, but I just get pissed off. I can't do it.
I've never been able to do this.

And it's, you know, trying to learn a thing with a sport, trying to hit the golf ball a certain way. Oh, God.
And I have to just stop and go, it doesn't matter. Okay.

The secret to happiness is low expectations on the golf course, right? But the, but persevere, push through, push through, push through until you get a callus.

Push through, push through, push through until your brain is tired. Your emotions are tired.

Learn to do hard things.

Those that are 30 years old and under

in the next 25 years that know how to do hard things will be running the country. That's right.

Yes, yes. They'll be running the country.

And the rest of you that don't learn how to do hard things will be following them and doing what you're told like a bunch of sheeple.

And so

learn to do hard things.

Marriage for 50 years is hard.

It's hard. And anyone who tells you this is a cakewalk is a liar.
Okay?

There are times that you want to kill each other.

Literally. I mean, I'm not talking metaphorically.
I'm talking about I want to, yeah, you're right, and hide the ball. You're right.
There are times parenting is hard.

I mean, now that I've got grandkids, I'm really glad I let them live. But there was a question, a time or two, whether they were going to live through this or not.
You know, it's worth it.

Go ahead, parents. Let them live because they'll bring you grandbabies and it's worth it.
Let them live. Don't kill them.
But yeah, but man. This is making me feel way better about myself.
It's hard.

It's hard, y'all.

Managing money and saying no to yourself so that that you can say yes later

is hard.

Not filling up the cart on Amazon and hitting submit is hard. I want it.
And I work so hard. Oh, call the ambulance.
You work hard. Everybody works hard.
You little whiner.

Oh, my God. That's the one that's inside of me.
I'm a little drama queen. I work so hard.
You don't work hard. You don't even know what hard work is.
You've never done any hard work. Hard work is not.

I work hard.

That means you went to a building all day. That's all that means.
Everybody does it. Yeah, everybody does it.

There was no sweat involved.

Now that's a word. And you drove there.

In the air-conditioned car.

I work hard. It's perspective.

So do some hard, do some real things that are difficult. You know, our friend, Michael, what's his name? Esther? Yeah, Easter.
Easter. Easter.
Is that right? Wrote the book Comfort Crisis.

Yeah, read Comfort Crisis.

We have a crisis in the culture because

we've worked so hard to become comfortable, and now we're so comfortable we don't know how to do hard things. And you have to practice the hard things.

That's like we have to go from our 72-degree kitchen to our 72-degree garage to our 72-degree car to our 72-degree office, and we call that hard.

No. And really,

there's no starvation involved. There's no, no one's hungry.
I mean, there are some hungry people out there.

But I mean, most of you listening to me right now,

you got your $800 iPhone, and you're not, you know, and you can't complain about, you know, living like you live like 1% of the world, up 1%. So it's do some hard things.

Those that know how to do hard things will always be leading those that don't. And I also think that's a good thing.
Teach

personal dignity in it. I mean, there's just certain things that it's good to do, even if you could do it easier, even if you could have somebody else do it.

Like, for instance, okay, it's it's winter, all the leaves are falling off. We could probably pay somebody to come clean up the leaves, but we have to teach our kids that it's good to do hard work.

So, yeah, you can pick out stuff like that. I didn't do all that, but I mean, I did.
Do you know what I'm saying? You know, you've got to do the hard thing, whatever it is.

It can be a mental challenge, it can be a physical challenge,

it can be an emotional challenge. I don't want to go over there.
She doesn't like me. Oh, well, tough.
You know,

learn to work with difficult people. They're everywhere.
So you might as well get used to that. So here's a plan.
Deal with that. Well, she's mean.
Oh, well,

there's going to be a she's mean everywhere, believe me. So you got to learn to handle them.
And that's part of it. Do hard things, emotionally hard, physically hard, spiritually hard, whatever it is.

But the diligent are the ones that prosper. And diligent is excellence over time.

Diligent prosper. That's the Bible says that, okay?

And so you're going to prosper when you learn how to do hard things with excellence over time.

Because when you do the things that other people won't do, you'll always have the things that other people don't have.

I had dinner with my friends the other night. It's their 50th wedding anniversary.

They've done some things. that most people won't do to get to that point.
They put up with some stuff off of each other to get to that point. They didn't kill each other.

They didn't kill each other. They threatened to, but they didn't kill each other.
It's worth it. It's worth it.
They got some things that other people don't have.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

You know, we hear it all the time: a car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

Yeah, and that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens. Yeah, that's right.

You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straightforward term-life protection.

But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them.
Life insurance steps in when you die.

Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work. So it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet.

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Brad's in Greenville, South Carolina. Hey, Brad, what's up?

Hey, how's it going? Better than I deserve. How can we help?

So I inherited about $450,000. Wow.

It's in an IRA, an inherited IRA, so I have to pay taxes on it.

But I think I'll have enough to pay off the house afterwards. I want to know if it's better to invest that or if it's better to pay the house off.

How much do you owe on your home?

So $373,000.

Yeah, you would have, yeah.

No, no, you won't either.

You're not going to get that much out of $450,000.

It's all taxable at ordinary income when you pull it out. Yeah.

It's going to put you in the top tax bracket, so it's 30%.

So I'm pulling it out a little bit at a time. So I'm going to do it over like a four or five-year period to where I can stay in that 22% tax bracket.

I don't think you're going to be in a 22% tax bracket if you do that. That's $100,000 a year.
I don't think that's a 22% tax bracket.

So it would be better to look at investing it? No, that wasn't what I was saying. I'm just questioning your tax numbers is all.

It was not an inherent.

So have you talked to a tax person to help you c run this out?

I did, and that's where I got the 22%.

Okay, then maybe I'm wrong. Okay.
What do you make? What's your household income?

So we're about $120,000, $130,000.

He told us about, since it's married filing joint, it'd be about $228,000, give or take,

is what the 22%

would be for us with the standard deduction. Okay.

Hmm. All right.
All right. I will shut up then.
Okay. So you can pull $100 a year out for four years.

Yeah, roughly. And keep it at 22.
Okay. Yeah.

All right.

Now, back to your question then.

We

surveyed and did research, the largest research project on millionaires ever done in North America, 10,167 of them.

The number of them that said, I borrowed on my house to invest in the stock market, and that's how I became wealthy, wealthy, was precisely zero. None of them did that.

Instead, they worked systematically to get out of debt and systematically to invest while being debt-free.

That's what they almost every one of them, like 89 percentile.

So

that's the data tells me that the smartest thing to do, what millionaires typically do, is to pay off the house. And so I would pay off my house if I were in your shoes.

And then I would use that increased cash flow to build wealth with because you don't have a house payment anymore because your house payments

what $4,000, $3,000?

We're at $23,000. Okay, so yeah, I'd round it up to $3,000, put $3,000 a month into a mutual fund after your house is paid off and you have a million dollars in that one account in no time.

That's $36,000 a year. That's legitimate investing.

Okay, so yeah, that no, so the answer to your question is I pay off my house as soon as I can.

And I want you to go back. I'm going to have to pull it up.
Are you pulling up tax brackets? Yeah, I'm looking at it. It looks like 206,

married filing jointly, 206,394, 24%.

Okay. Well, he said 22%.
Yeah. So, yeah.
Okay.

So you're right in there. All right.

This is why I don't do taxes because I suck at it. Okay.
Well, then it's always cheap. Either way, yeah.
So yeah, avoiding bracket creep is the smart way to do this.

There's no reason to give them extra money.

Is it invested in good mutual funds?

So I've got it invested right now with Fidelity. They're managing the account.

And

I've got it on a low risk because the market's been doing pretty good.

So

I didn't want a market turn and then lose the inheritance. You're not going to lose the inheritance with the market turn.
You might lose some of the gains, but you won't lose the inheritance.

So, no, there's not been a market turn where the market evaporated. There's never been one.
Even in the Great Depression, the stock market crash, crash, the market didn't completely evaporate.

It just went way down. So, no, you're not going to lose the inheritance, but you might lose some of it.
I mean, it might lose $10,000 or something.

But no, so make sure it's invested in something good.

Because this market's going zoom, zoom, and you really do want to be in on it

while you're sitting on it because you're dumping, because you're going to do this over four years.

Make sure you're in at least an index, at least, and maybe a little bit more risk than that it's where i would be anyway so but but if you're doing that yeah you're going to be beating up on this tax bracket thing and running that running that as soon as you pull it out though dump it on the mortgage as soon as you pull it out dump it on the mortgage the day you can get it out january 1 boom so you could take some this year some next year right so right now you got three weeks span you can get you can two hits on yeah that's a good idea so you can pop some this year some next year

and and that's um in the next month you could put 200 000 on this so um and i would i definitely would.

I'd just ask more questions, too. I'd want to know why he landed specifically at $100,000 when he's still got that window up against the tax bracket.

His income plus $100,000 out of this puts him right at the bracket creep. That's what he was saying.
Yeah, well, it puts him right in the middle of the bracket. It puts him right between

22,000. What's the 22 max? 22 max is 206.
That's what he said. Yeah.
And he makes like one something. He makes 120.
So if he took 100, he'd be over it already. Yeah.
Okay.

Well, it won't be quite 100 then. It'll be just under that.
But yeah, he's going to run right up to the edge of the 22s, what he said. Okay.
That makes sense.

That sounds like it's good advice. Sounds like you got it nailed down.
But yes, the bottom line is I'm going to pay off my house before I invest.

I would not borrow on my home to invest, and it has the same exact mathematical effect if you don't pay off the house and you instead invest. So, no, I would not.
I'd get the house paid off.

All the data that we have shows to go that way, and common sense says to go that way. And when you lay your head on a pillow in a house that you don't know anything on, it feels different.

I'm just saying. I said it all the time: when people come up against hard times,

you know, whether it's COVID or they lost their job or there's a diagnosis, the number one thing people think about is, can I keep my house?

Is my home going to be okay? Is my house going to be all right? That's the number one thing. Not how my mutual funds do.
Nope. Don't ever ask that.
I didn't check my mutual fund. That never comes up.

They want the security of their home being stable.

And I think there's something about it being stable that adds to

the,

adds to a lot of things for one thing, but it adds to career choice. Yes.
Because

I don't have to put up with this crap so I can go over here and make more money.

And you just feel, I don't know, you got a little more swagger. You felt free up.
You're freed up. You got a little more swagger in the marketplace

when you don't do that. So, yeah,

I would,

not to mention, you know, relationally, number one cause of divorce, money fights, money problems, money stress. Don't have that.
Don't have a mortgage. Hello.

Not as much. not as much chance anyway.
Oh, by the way,

what's the number one cause of death in America? That would be hypertension, heart attack, that kind of stuff, right? And guess what? Low blood pressure.

You got lower blood pressure when you don't have a mortgage. That's right.

I actually don't have any data on that. One of these days we need to get with the medical community and do a little study on

your medical cost,

your medical bills resulting from the anxiety caused by debt.

That would be groundbreaking. What would be the cost? What's the real cost?

My interest rate's a good deal, not anymore. Not once you run the medical bill on top of it.
Yeah,

that's a different thing. So, I mean, just chill.
Take someone's pulse, like put a meter on them as they're signing for a car note.

Yeah. See what's going on with those vitals

through the roof. Check the brainwaves, see if there is one.

No, those fell off.

Those fell off the chart.

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All right, today's question comes from Hayden in Pennsylvania. He says, my wife and I recently got married and bought a home.

We're debt-free other than the home and have a fully funded emergency fund of about $19,000. Our combined income is approximately $10,000 a month and our expenses are only around $3,500.

We spend around $450 a month on eating out and entertainment. Now, I'm the saver, and I find it very hard to spend on items that I don't believe are needs.

My wife loves to think about ways to decorate our first home.

And given that we're debt-free besides the home and investing 15% in our retirement, what strategy should I put into place regarding how much cash we could wisely spend on furniture?

I'm happy sitting in the dark living room on a lawn chair reading financial statements, but you're cooler than me.

This is terrible. He says, you're cooler than me and we'll answer the question in a way that will ease my anxiety and also help our marriage.

Oh, yeah, we're going to help your marriage because if you continue down this track, it's not looking good for you, buddy.

Yeah, you guys are doing fine. You're doing good.
Baby step four, investing 15%. Love all that.
The fact that you have all of this margin is fabulous. $10,000 coming in, $3,500 going out.

Dave, when I think of things like this,

I like thinking about it in terms of what I'm going to call just kind of a financially responsible adult checklist.

And this is a checklist that needs to run in the the background for people who are either nerdy like this guy who's got Tyde Watts syndrome or, you know, people who just have a hard time trusting their instincts.

Maybe they've made a lot of bad mistakes in the past and they're just

getting comfortable with the idea of doing well with money. Number one, and it's following the babysitter.
Number one, are you a person who's on a budget? You're on your budget every single month.

You're checking in with your budget. You're utilizing your budget.
If that's yes, check green, green light.

Next thing, are you a person who's out of debt and you're not entertaining things that allow you to go into debt so you're just a debt-free lifestyle yes check are you a person who's carrying the proper insurances i'm guessing you are i'm guessing you have your life insurance your wills everything's in place there great green light next thing are you person who is doing all the ways that we say to save money you've got your three to six months check you're investing 15 a form of saving yes you've even bought a home another forced savings account green check very very good and are you a person who's prioritizing generosity generosity?

Now, I did not see that in the things that you talked about. That could help.
So that's one that I'd put a little question mark.

If you are doing those five things, you are what's known as a financially responsible adult, which means when there's margin left over, Dave, you can use those.

You don't just have to do needs, needs, needs, needs. There are some wants that you need to throw in there and you can do it.

in a you can trust that you'll do it in a responsible way because you've been responsible on all the things that matter so yes give your wife some money to decorate this house.

You're not going to go into debt over it. You're not going to sacrifice the things that you need and that make you a responsible adult.
So yeah, do it. Get the couch.

There are three things you can do with money.

You can give it, you can spend it wisely, and you can save it.

You need to be doing all three of those things. Yes.

And when you're not, you're not in balance and you're going to blow up at some point or somebody around you is going to blow up. You could live in a lawn chair in your living room.
She can't.

So she won't be living with you if you keep this up. That's how this works.
Okay. So financially responsible adults.
I do not understand it.

My joke was I do not understand China dishes that we never eat on. And I really don't understand a $3,000 cabinet to put the dishes in that we never eat on.
I don't have to understand this.

You don't have to get it. You just have to get it.
Because you speak Raptor. You have to go get it.

i i don't speak china i speak raptor you understand i speak gun you speak gun i don't speak purse right so yeah so i don't have to get it i've just got to get it happy wife happy life and gotta remember what's it all for like otherwise why what's why are you doing this if you can't enjoy any of it well it's not it if part of him enjoying it is allowing his wife to enjoy we have a line item in our budget continuously decorating.

Yeah. We're continuously decorating

for 43 years. We've been continuously decorating.
I haven't always been aware of it, but we have been continuously decorating. Because the window treatment is.
Finally, I gave up and admitted it.

Okay, now we're actually doing it, so we're going to put it in the budget. And this is the number you can do up to this per month.

Or you can not do it for three months and still spend the total of those dollars. I don't care, but this is the amount.
And I have the same thing for whatever my little thing is, right?

I'm going to go buy a gun or I'm going to do whatever with it. So

you're going to have to break stuff. That's having fun with money, and it has an agreed-on amount.
Yes, you both agree. And then there's no thing.

So you put a little fun category in there and do that. And no, you're not being irresponsible.
Jades have got you checked off exactly right. And he's making fun of himself to his own credit.

I'm a nerd.

He's saying I'm a nerd, and he knows he's a nerd. That's good.

But most men can live under a bridge. It doesn't bother us.

And so we don't need drapes. I mean, we don't understand.
It's like shades will do, you know, so cheaper shades. But, you know, but I don't understand.
I don't know why it has to. Oh, well.

and so it doesn't matter if i understand or not you don't i have figured that out so yeah you need a budget for a line item for generosity it doesn't sound like you have that and it sounds and you do need a budget line item that you've both agreed to and then you shut up about it no whining about it no and i gave 500 out of it you don't give her nothing she married you there you go so we decided we are spending 500 a month we decided we're spending a thousand dollars a month we decided whatever to decorate our new home and he'll probably like it the truth is you you're fine on a lawn chair, but I think, you know, it warms up the house.

I mean, you like the stuff that Sharon picks. Not, no,

not equal to what it costs. Listen, I'm scared of you when you go home.
No, I'm not. I don't, I truly, I'm not as bad as this guy, but I truly don't.
You don't care about that.

I would not have spent that on that chair,

not in a million freaking years.

But that's okay. I'm happy, and she's happy, and we've got the money, so it's okay.
It's okay. Everybody's good.
And

she does not understand understand some of my obsessions either. So it's okay.
It's all right.

It doesn't matter. The point is, you need to enjoy, as a couple, your money.

And you need to be generous and give your money. That's right.
And you need to be constantly investing and saving, and you are. And so we know you got that one.

And so, yeah, there's three things you can do with money. You have to teach little kids the same thing, by the way.
Teach your little kids to give, to save, and to spend. I'm on it now.

That's a hard one. That's a hard one.
But if you get them there, they'll be happy adults. Yeah.

Yeah, they will. I'm working on it.
Good balance. Good balance.
Alyssa is in Austin, Texas. Hi, Alyssa.
What's up?

Hi, I'm thrilled to be here. Good to have you.
How can we help you?

Well, I want to know how I should quit working on my business or keep going. What are you making on that? Are you making money?

No.

How much are you making? What's your total dollars coming in in a month?

Like $500 a month. How long have you been here? I've been working on it like

really hard like three months but i was like lightly doing it what is the business month ago

it's a digital marketing business because i want to work from home because i'm a homeschooler mom so i want to work in the afternoons and did you buy some package or something to do this with

multilateral well i i promised my husband i wouldn't like spend over a certain amount you know so i'm almost to that limit and now i'm questioning like should i keep going because i bought like a course and like professional zoom and like the website things and it's like slowly trickling and most importantly I have to find someone to watch my children in the afternoons

so I can have time to work on the business. Plus I'm working on the weekends.
My husband is graciously watching them and I'm like I don't know if I'm just at the low part of starting a business

or if I should just keep going. No, there's no mystery to it.

Henry Cloud says on in his book Necessary Endings that when you lose hope that things are going to get better, it's time to end whatever it is.

So whether that's a relationship, a job, a business. And so you've got to give me a reason why you think this is going to start making $5,000 a month

because you're making a dollar an hour right now. This sucks.

Right.

So you got to really, you're going to have to solve for, I'm going to make these final three moves and get this to $4,000 a month. Or I'm not going to go, oh, it just takes a while.

No, it doesn't take a while. You got to go get this stuff done.
Yeah, and have a plan. And you could have gone and gotten a part-time job and made a whole lot more.

So I kind of think you bought an internet thing that you read, and

I think they sold you a bunch of crap, is kind of what it sounds like to me.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. I'm Dave Ramsey.
Jade Washaw is my co-host, Ramsey Personality, number one best-selling author.

Jessica's in Springfield, Michigan. Hi, Jessica.
What's up?

Hi, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve.
How can I help?

Yeah,

I am Colleen. I am a single mom with a rally a little taller son, but I

want

income and I've been working three jobs and trying to do the baby steps. And then I just feel like I'm like in a and I'm not like a rut or just not getting anywhere is where I kind of feel like

try not to get emotional with it but I just feel like I just sometimes have failed

that's kind of where I'm at right now

I don't think you failed you might be tired but I don't think you failed

so tell me about who's well who's watching the baby when you're doing all this work

Yeah, so I actually just moved back home with my parents to kind of help like save money. And I'm actually don't, yeah, so I actually

i'm 36. and how much child support are you receiving i do not get any dave

um i had a bad lawyer i feel like um and we uh we actually have joint custody but i don't actually get any support so okay and what do you make at your day job

yeah so my full-time job um i make about fifty fifty three thousand and then with my side i do have two side jobs that like and i make about fifty eight thousand a year um alone at those two?

No, sorry.

Your side jobs only make $5,000 a year. Yes.

You don't make anything at your side jobs. Okay.
No, they're both contract jobs, and the one of them I honestly just need to get rid of.

There's really no work there anymore. But I work my full-time job, I work between anywhere between 10 to 20 hours overtime each week with that.
So

when you get your checks for the month, what's it total for the full month?

For the full month um they typically are about um after taxes about thirty eight um thirty eight hundred is typically where i sit so with you're you're home with your parents and they're helping you out and that 3800 what's it going towards

towards debt um right now and i am i am still um i'm paying my rent up until this actually this last month um which um which i'm paying for an empty apartment in alabama but um i do i that's another $1,000 I will be getting

in my pockets

She had $1,000 rent back in Alabama. And now what else was the $3,800 going to?

Student loans and student loans and medical debt and credit card debt is where that

goes.

How much student loan debt do you have?

Student loans is right about $28,000. And how much medical?

Medical is about $3,000. Okay, and how much credit card?

Credit card is $8,500. Wow.

You know, I'm hearing this and like the more you're saying it, the more excited I'm getting because you're getting this help from your parents, the thousand dollars you're going to get back in your pocket after this month.

You know, next next month, you can knock the medical debt out. You got a car debt?

I do have a car debt.

Yeah, it's $8,000. Okay, that's not bad.
And how's the car running? It's all right?

Yes,

it runs great. And

I've gone through the FIP University and I debated selling my car, but I do hate to travel back to Alabama monthly. So having a car for my topic.
How do you have to travel back to Alabama?

It's crazy is I still have to take my son for visitations,

which

his father doesn't really care. It's a sad thing.
So his dad won't come to you where you are. You have to,

is it by court order that you have to go to him? Yes.

Yes. Is there a way to go back and change any of that?

I have debated going back and going back to court, but it was like an 8,000. I'm sorry, I'm so busy.
It's okay. It's all right.
It was like an $8,000 boring bill. How long were y'all married?

We were not married.

Thankfully. Like, thank God that we were not married because I dodged a bullet on that one.

Okay, okay.

Okay.

And so you're talking about the travel that sets you back a little bit. All right.

So did you get a tax how long

how long have you been gone from alabama gone from him

um we just moved back in may um so about seven about seven eight months um i think that's did you get a tax refund last year

i did

yes sir i did um i i believe it was r shy of 3 500. okay i want you to go to uh hr and change your w-2

by 300 a month and bring 300 more home to 4100.

That would help a lot.

Because that's what you're giving the IRS too much every month out of your check. You're giving them too much money.

More than you owe.

And let's get you on a budget because I think when you get on a written plan, you're going to see that living with your parents right now, which I think is a good move for you right now, all of your money is your money.

I mean, are they charging you anything? Have they said you need to do this or that?

No, I mean, I help like with groceries and hardware.

So if you take $1,000 a month to live on and put $3,000 a month towards these bills, the medical bills are gone in one month, three months later, the credit cards are gone, and three months later, the car is gone.

So seven months from now, you're debt-free except student loan.

Right.

That would be amazing.

Well, no, that's exactly your number. And then in another eight months, the student loans are gone.
Yeah.

So you're looking at 16 months, 17 months on this.

If you can stay there that long, you'll be debt-free and be able to go get you an apartment and start your life.

And if you get an extra job that's reliable and legitimate, where you're making some serious money

versus the crappy ones you've got now,

you can accelerate that speed. Yeah.
Okay, so here's what's happened. Your emotions and your body physical reaction is still living

back there with the doofus boy.

Okay,

I'm sitting here in your future. Jade's sitting here in your future.
And it's so bright, I need to wear shades.

See, it's because I'm looking out six months from now, and you're debt-free, but student loans.

And by the way. That is not scary or crying numbers.
Those are happy numbers, excited numbers, celebration numbers.

And don't get hung up on the six months because you're going to feel it after this month when you pay the medical debt.

You're going to start feeling it right now yeah as soon as you start doing the budget

this month no medical debt next month half the credit card's gone or a third of the credit card's gone the next month a third the next month a third the next month so seven months it takes to get the car and the credit cards and the medical bills down to just the student loan

wow you're okay

you're okay

It doesn't feel like you're okay because your life has sucked for so long. But now just look out into the the future and I see a really cool future.
Yep. The rearview mirror's got manure in it, okay?

Yes. But the future's bright.

Okay?

So you're coming out of the manure pile riding a pony, kiddo. Here we go.
All right?

Yes. You're okay.

Yes. You're okay.

Your numbers are better than you feel. Uh-huh.

Do you hear the math? Do you hear the math?

I do. Okay.

Just suck. Just breathe that in and hold it.

You're okay. We're going to set you up on every dollar.
And if you need to call us back, you call us back. We'll keep walking with you.
But you can do this. This is very doable.

If it was bad, we'd tell you. That's right.
We'd tell you the truth around here. We love you enough to tell you the truth.

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Kelly is with us in Cincinnati. Hey, Kelly, what's up?

Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call.
Sure. How can we help?

I'm 53 years old. I've been dating my boyfriend for about two years now, and the idea of long-term commitment in marriage has been coming up.
We're both financially stable, no debt,

lot significant amount in retirement accounts. And he is just straight up against marriage.

He got burned badly.

He did. He actually, he really got burned bad.

And that was, I mean, that was 20 years ago, 25 years ago. Yeah, but he still lives in that.

Yes. Was he upfront about that? Has he been upfront about that, the fact that he doesn't want to be married? Yes.

And you were thinking maybe he could change his mind? I thought I was okay, and now I'm like, but it's not.

I mean, I understand we both, like, we both have kids. Yeah.
They're almost all adults. We both are financially stable.

It's so heartbroken. And obviously,

it is. Yeah.
I'm sorry. So I'm just stuck, right? No, you're not.
I mean, you're not stuck. You're not stuck.

You've already decided who you are, and he decided who he is, and that's a bad thing. I'm sorry.

Yeah.

I wish it didn't feel bad.

I wish it didn't feel bad, too. But it feels awful.
It hurts because you really, I mean, you like the guy, obviously.

Might even say love the guy. But I would just say, you know, I thought I could be okay not being married and I'm not okay.

And you're not okay talking about getting married even or getting, you know, counseling for what happened to you. I'm not her.

And I feel like she's being held against me and against the institution of marriage. All marriage is not bad.

All relationships are hard, including marriage, but all marriages are not bad. All people don't mistreat each other the way she did.
And so his conclusion is ill-founded.

It's based in scars and pain.

And

he's unwilling to address it. But here and here's the other part of it, Kelly.
And I'm thinking about this just from

if I were in your shoes, I wouldn't want to have to convince somebody of it. Yeah.
Do you see what I'm saying? Like, even if you laid out some sort of a, hey, if you don't do this, I'm walking.

And then if he decided, okay, I'll marry you. That doesn't feel good either does it

no it doesn't it doesn't because i've thought about that you know that's the tough part it's tough i'm not gonna lie i i feel for you i'm sorry and it's it's it's a few years in the future still but i don't you know i'm i'm not 20.

well i mean you've already so

was

three years i wouldn't no there's no there's no few there's no no time in the future it's you've been dating for two years two years and you figured out it's not a match

and so you start All right. I was hoping you were going to just give me some magic to convince him that

it was good. But I'm kind of mindful about it.

I think it is good. And

I think if I were for, if I, if he was on the phone, I would tell him to sit down with a therapist, sit down with his pastor, and start reaching towards some healing from his past because he's hurting.

The scars are dominating his thought pattern rather than his bright future. And he's about to lose a great gal because of it.

Have you mentioned that to him that maybe there's some healing that needs to take place?

No, I don't think I've ever actually said those words.

He had a long-term partner who didn't require marriage, and I think he just kind of settled into that. And then

they broke up very easily, right? I mean, it was, hey, let's go our separate ways. So he's never been actually married before.
No, no. He was married.

Oh, and then he had a long-term-term relationship that she didn't require him to marry.

And then she just kind of said, okay, I'm out. I'll see you.

And he was like, oh, okay.

And he's like, see, I didn't have to go through a divorce. I didn't have to pay a lawyer.
This is great. This was so wonderful.
And I'm like, but that's not the commitment I want.

Yeah, that's exactly right.

This is, yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah.

All right. Well, I appreciate you taking my call.
I'm sorry. Thanks.
Thanks for calling. Oh, that's tough.
That is hard. That is hard.

That's tough.

You have these conversations early and often, and he did say it. He said it from the beginning.
Yeah.

I mean, you can't argue with a guy in terms of his honesty, but that still doesn't, it's just not a matter of time. That's painful.

Yeah, I think the thing is the only thing I might have done if I, looking back on it, I'm trying to look backward on this, is maybe, you know, a little sooner in the pro rather than investing two years into it.

And because the heartbreak is more extreme the further you're into it. So ouch.
Ouch. Lynn is in Columbia, South Carolina.
Hey, Lynn, what's up?

Hey, thank you for taking my call. Sure.
How can we help?

I would love, we would love your opinion on if it makes sense in the current housing market to sell our Airbnb.

Tell us more.

Why are you thinking of selling? Okay, so

I lost my job. My position was eliminated about six weeks ago, and I'm currently looking for another job.
But if it doesn't, I don't think I'm going to be able to make as much as I was.

So if it doesn't work out, we would definitely have a profit from selling the Airbnb.

And we could definitely live on that for a while.

Fine.

Does your husband work?

He does. And what does he make?

He probably makes only about 37 a year. And let me explain, because

he had a business, we moved into South Carolina about a year ago. He had a business, a distributing business, and we were living on mostly on my income because I was at a company for a very long time.

And they told me that, you know, it would work remotely. And regardless, they did eliminate my position.
So he's working at a local supermarket in a receiving area. And what were you making?

I was making probably $90.

Doing what?

I was an executive admin to a president of a company. Now, what made you say that you probably won't make that again? That's a crazy statement.

Because in South Carolina,

I did that my entire life. And to just step into a position,

an executive admin position,

I'm not going to there's nothing available currently here that I've looked at in the last six weeks, two months that starts at that level. I understood.
What do they start at?

More 40, 50.

Interesting. Okay.

Back to the Airbnb for a second.

What's it worth?

Probably $200. And what do you owe on it?

$112.

Where were you living before?

So, in Pittsburgh? Is that what you mean? Yeah. And why did you choose South Carolina?

Two of our three daughters live around the corner from us, and one was in Charlotte. So we needed to be near them and near our grandchildren.

Is the Airbnb in Pittsburgh?

No, so we bought it in 2020 so that I could come down here and work and be close to the grandkids when I came down. And then when we moved down here last year,

we

decided to Airbnb. Well, actually, I decided to Airbnb in Pittsburgh.
To answer your question, just simply, yes, I would sell it. Okay.

But then the other thing I want to address is, number one, your husband needs a different position.

And number two,

your set of assumptions, I'm

frankly, I'm very familiar with Columbia, and I'm very familiar with Charlotte, and I'm frankly shocked that you haven't seen any executive positions anywhere, assistant positions over $40,000 or $50,000.

I know if you go to Charlotte, you would.

And that might be your... That's about an hour and a half north, yeah.
Well, that's where one of the other kids lives. I heard that.

And so you'd be an hour and a half from your grandkid over on that side, but it'd be next to the kid that's in Charlotte. So

if you need the income, but I don't know what you all need to make to survive

and so forth, but on the back end of your career. But I

it is

an interesting observation, 30 years of doing this, that people, when they lose a job, for some reason, always assume they're going to make less.

They never assume it's an opportunity to make more. I don't know why that is.
We've had all those years of experience, I would think.

Now, Columbia is not a huge market, but it's big enough that there ought to be somebody over 40 playing for an executive assistant. That doesn't feel right.

But I think it's just a belief system. You're just like, oh, I'm always going to make less because I'm not in Pittsburgh.
Well, I mean, that's pretty snobbish. So

South Carolina doesn't pay what Pittsburgh pays. Yes, they do.
So, um, hello.

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Buying or selling your home is a big deal. Hey, interest rates are down, boys and girls.

And with all the clickbait headlines and conflicting data out there, it's hard to know what's happening in the housing market. Well, we're here to tell you the latest trends.

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Mortgage rates are at 5.5 in October. Nice.
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And we've got all the market data on there. Facts are your friends.
Don't listen to the crazy friends of yours.

Don't listen to all the whining and the carrying on. It's nuts.
Just go find out what the facts are and you'll be amazed at how housing is still there. It's not all gone.
Your life isn't over.

Everything's okay. Logan's in Dallas.
Hey, Logan, how are you?

Hey, Dave, I'm good. I'm doing well.
Thanks for taking my call. Sure.
What's up?

So my wife and I, we've always had separate bank accounts.

And my wife

is against combining to one shared account. But lately, she's been stressed because she hasn't been able to help out as much as she used to with the bills.

So I'm wondering what sort of alternatives we might have. How long have you been married?

We just celebrated our 10-year anniversary this year.

Why is she against combining accounts?

Because she's told me that she feels like

if she combines her bank account, she would feel more

independent. Got it.
Why? She doesn't think you're going to count her vote?

She doesn't think that

she doesn't want to spend my money.

It's not your money. It's our money.
We got married. I know.
How'd she grow up? How'd she grow up?

She grew up in a,

her mom and dad are still together. They have separate bank accounts, though, as well.
She's kind of following in there. Okay, well, let me give you a couple things.
Number one, the

data tells us,

when we did the largest study of millionaires ever done, that people who combine accounts have a much higher probability of actually becoming millionaires.

And 89% of the millionaires surveyed said that were married, said that one of the reasons they became wealthy is they worked in alignment with...

a spouse that was cooperative and combined everything. And so the

marriage vows or the old marriage vows are true. In the old Book of Common Prayer, they used to say, for rich or for poor in sickness and health.

We've all heard that one, but in the old ones, they would say, unto thee all my worldly goods I pledge. In other words, we're all in.

We're going to share everything, the same bed, we're going to share the same house, we're going to have flu at the same time. We're going to be all in, okay?

And we share bank accounts. And it's not your money and my money.
It's our money. my wife has not had an income since my 40 year old daughter was born

but we have an excellent income and i don't we don't ever say dave makes the money sharon doesn't get evoked that really wouldn't work at all but but it also doesn't work at all so we are very careful with our pronouns everything is shared it's our car our everything unless the dog pees in the floor and then it's my dog but other than that it's our everything right And so your dog.

But yeah, but other than my dog,

everything is we, our, us.

And this is what we are doing. We built a house.
We bought a car. We went on a trip.
We saved up some money for retirement. We bought some investment real estate.
We do it all.

And there's a tremendous marital benefit to that as well, because when you agree on the overall, let's put all the money in one pile and we have to sit down and both of us have an equal vote.

I'm not suggesting she loses her independence. I'm suggesting she lost her independence when she got married.
You did too, by the way.

You now promised to work with someone the rest of your life on things. You gave up being independent.

Independent was when you were living by yourself in an apartment. That's independent.
Okay, but

you didn't lose your identity when you got married,

but you did lose your independence. You are now interdependent, thank God.

And now we're going to work together. And

I really, really, really, I can't stress this enough, what it will do for your relationship. Because here's the thing.

When you agree on your spending, you got the whole money a pile, and we sit down together. She gets a vote, you get a vote.
We're going to spend our money together.

You are agreeing on what you fear. You are agreeing on your dreams.
You are agreeing on your values. You are agreeing on what we're going to be generous with.

And when you don't combine it, you don't have all that agreement. And so a level of unity, a level of oneness is missing from your relationship.

I'm telling you, man, Ul's relationship will double in quality when she gives this up.

Yeah.

When I hear this, I hear somebody who, what's at the root of this, I think it sounds, it sounds powerful for women to say, oh, at the root of this is like, I'm a feminist and I'm an independent woman who don't need no man.

But really what's at the fear, the root of it is fear is what I hear.

Somebody who's fearful that if I combine 100% with this person, something could happen down the line and I could be left out to dry. I could be the one left holding the bag.

I could be the one that ends up getting screwed out of it. And by the way, the law says otherwise.
But that's what's

the law protects that. That's what's ticking in her mind.
And so that's the nerve that I'd be going after is.

When I think of the word independence, that means you're free from something. And in this case, you're free from me.
I don't want you to be free from me. I want us to be together.

And what I'm thinking is you're thinking about, will you be protected in the future? Could something happen to you? Let's talk about all of that.

I think if you can speak her language on this, you can come together on this. Yeah.

Just the problem is if you don't, you're lowering the quality of your marriage, the probability of your marriage working, and you're lowering the probability of building wealth.

The data tells us all that. Right.

Those are facts. It's not a feeling and it's not a spiritual statement.
It's a data-based statement.

And we know that from having done this for 30 years and having studied research project after research project

out there on this. And so, yeah.

So, young man, if you're out there and you want to get married and you want to

never be told what to do,

never have someone have an opinion on whether you go by and have a beer after work or never have, don't get married.

Because it's what's going to happen.

That's one of the things you give up.

You now have acquiesced to someone else's desires. Sure, 100%.

Young man, if you're getting married, young woman, if you're getting married, if you want to be independent and be a feminist, you shouldn't be.

Marriage is not for you. Well, life just changes.

It's not for you. The definitions change.
It's not that you have to submit to the men. It's quite the opposite of that.

He's got to submit to you, too. Submit yourselves one to another, Ephesians says.

Both of you.

Serve each other.

Both of you. And this is what creates high-quality relationships.
This is what creates high probability of building wealth. Oh, by the way, careers take off too.
It's the weirdest thing.

And the data says that people who combine their money, they're just happier. Like just day to day, they're happier.
And I think that's an Arthur Brooks happiness study.

He finds that stuff in marriage all the time. The cooperation creates the happiness.

And as opposed to, I'm standing up for my rights.

Well, and it's building trust because when you can do money together,

the thing you've learned about each other is I can depend on you and you can depend on me. I keep my word.
You keep your word. We keep our word.

And when you do that,

you're good. That'll preach you.
You're good to go.

Yeah, it's an integrity verification. That's right.
That's right.

That's strong. That's strong because,

you know, and it's not in his situation. His situation doesn't apply to this, but I can't tell you the reason that

that song sings right there is the number of times I run into someone who's got financial infidelity, they also have sexual infidelity. Yeah.
Yep. There's a correlation oftentimes.

We run into it a lot in the counseling office here. So it's just, oh man, wow.
Hey, that's a cool question. Thanks for putting it out.

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Our scripture of the day, Colossians 4, 5, be wise in the way you should act toward outsiders. Make the most of every opportunity.
Thomas Sowell said,

Why is there so much effort being put into trying to find intelligent life on other planets when there is a serious question about how much intelligent life there is here?

Not bad. Not bad at all.
All right. Aaron's in Pittsburgh.
Hey, Aaron. What's up?

Hi, Dave. Hi, Jade.
Thank you both for all you do, and thank you for taking my call today. Sure.
Thank you. How come you?

So I kind of called on a whim.

But basically, just a quick question.

Me and my husband are on babysits four, five, and six.

And, you know, I have two boys, ages 16 and 12.

They both want some pretty expensive clothing for Christmas.

One hoodie, for example, can be anywhere from $150 to $300.

And I grew up

without money. And so,

you know, I just look at that and I think, you know, I could buy five hoodies for that price. And I just need to know, am I crazy? You know, it's a Christmas gift.
Is it okay to spend a lot of money?

on like one item of clothing.

I mean, I feel like it's okay, but I guess I'm just going to... What's your household income?

Like right around, right below $300,000. Is it the fact that, is it the $150,000? Because you might spend $150,000 on, I don't know,

to $300,000 or a scooter or a gaming system, right?

But is it the fact that it's clothing specifically, or is it the money specifically?

It's honestly clothing. It's like I said, you know,

I mean... Okay, so it's not the money.
It's the fact you don't feel like it's a good value.

Yes, exactly. I don't feel like it's a good, a good value, and I'm just like, you know, like I said, one hoodie is $300.
I'm like, oh, my goodness, I could spend, I could use that money.

I'm so out of it. I'm just a lot of wear.
There was a hoodie that was over $70. No, there is a lot of people.
What's the brand of this?

I'm such a dad joke.

What is the brand of this?

I think it's called Spider.

There's like a five in the middle.

But it's like, okay. It's like,

is that ski wear, the ski wear, spider ski wear? Yeah, um, I it's just

like I think some rapper made it, you know, some rapper.

That's why I wouldn't know.

It's what's popular at school. They want to be, you know, they want the latest thing.
I guess.

So, no, there's two, there's two parts to the discussion then. And, you know, it might be fun to sit down and talk to them about it and go, okay, I grew up poor, so this is hard for me.

This is you talking.

Okay.

Number one. number two we have the money

and i'm i'm concerned about two things here because i think you are i'm going to put words in your mouth and you tell me if i'm wrong okay i'm concerned that we're buying something super expensive just so you feel better about yourself at school

and uh so that you think you look cool and you think that clothing makes you look cool instead of just by the way being cool is a way to good better way to look cool and um

then the second thing is that I'm worried about what I'm teaching you when I do this for you.

I can afford it, and I'm willing to overcome my childhood part in order to do this for you, but I'm worried about you guys and what I'm teaching you if I do this.

Because it's not a very good, it's not a good use of the money. You're buying one thing and one thing only here, and it's prestige.
You're not buying the quality of clothing. You're buying the name.

And so it would be the equivalent of a 16-year-old girl wanting a

$2,000 coach purse. Yeah.
Okay.

And, you know, which is, why does she need that purse when she, you know, she doesn't at school? Okay. Same thing.
Yeah. I'm making this up, but, you know, an expensive item.

And is a coach purse worth that? No, you're paying for the fact that people see you carrying a Louis Vuitton or carrying a coach. That's what you're paying for.
The purse itself is not constructed,

8x better.

Right. And this hoodie is not constructed.
The quality of the material or something

is not double with a $75 hoodie. So, I mean, you just kind of talk that through with them and go,

what is it that's driving you to want this?

Because as your mom, I want you, my job is not to make you happy right now. My job is to raise you to be a complete grown-up.

I'm trying to raise great grown-ups, not great kids.

And that's my job. And this is how we talk to our teens.
And we would say, okay, what's the value system? What matters here? And I'm not shaming you. I just want you guys to think through this.

And, you know, and once we've talked it through, if I'm convinced that you think you're cool without this, I might get it for you.

I'd also, I'm going to throw another question in there because I'm a creative and I always am encouraging, encouraging my kids to be themselves.

I'd want to know, is this a trend you're trying to set or is this a trend you're trying to follow?

That's what I'd want to know. Wow.
Because if you're trying to set a trend, I'm all in with you. Really?

I love, I want to. Leader of the pack.
Yes. Leader of the first one to the game.
Yeah. I like that.
Early adopter.

Wow. That's interesting.

Huh. Yeah.
Okay.

Yeah. And I just, I don't want our, we don't, none of us,

none of the three of us, Aaron, you, me, or Jade, want our kids to have their self-esteem based in what they wear or what they own.

Right. Stuff-based self-esteem is really shallow.

And it's kind of Instagram influencer crap, you know?

And it's like, it's a shallow. It's all about how you look instead of who you are.
And it's all about who sees you with this and that kind of thing.

One of Rachel's rules, my daughter's rules, is if no one ever sees me with this, would I still buy it? That's so good.

Yeah,

that's good. And she said, in other words, I'm buying it for me, not for someone else.
See, when I was in my 20s, I drove a Jaguar because I wanted everybody to think I was wealthy and had a Jaguar.

Now I drive the only cars I have are for me. I don't care what you think because I went broke and I lost all my care what you think.
It all went away. I don't give a crap now what you think.

So I drive whatever I want to drive. And if you don't like it, I couldn't care less.
I'm not taking a poll. So,

you know, and so I drove in in a pickup today, and I'm just, it's a great pickup, but I don't care. I can drive whatever I want to drive.
And I like the car.

So that, but I, but when I was in my 20s, I was real concerned about what you thought. So Rachel's rule is a good rule, too.
I love that rule. If no one ever saw you.
Yeah.

I like the trendsetter thing. That's interesting.
Yeah. Because, you know, teach them to lead.
There's always something that's the big trend.

And it's like, if you get it, you're part of the cool people, you're part of the group. And it's like, no, you, you make the trend and let everybody come and follow what you're doing I

care and I and I worry too I worry too that you know that this is the trend now and if I buy it in another three months it won't be

it won't be a hundred percent it won't be no this time next year it's in the goodwill pa goodwill pie no question

no question it's going it's going it's going to the homeless this time next year there's um there's a there's a viral video going around social media of a mom and she's asking asking her daughter, who's probably somewhere between the age of your boy, somewhere between 12 and 16.

She says, Hey,

do you remember what you got for Christmas last year? No. Have you seen that? She can't think of any of them.

Most kids can't. I can't tell you.
But then she said, Where did we go on vacation? And the daughter remembered exactly where they went.

So that right there is a good indicator of how their minds are making.

Yeah, how their minds are making.

I would use this as a teachable moment. And instead of saying, am I spending too much money? It's what am I getting for the money I'm spending?

And part of the, one of the things I'm getting is the lesson that you two boys learn from this.

And I got to become convinced that you think that you're awesome without this hoodie.

And if you think a hoodie makes you awesome, I'm not getting it.

Because I'm not going to cause your self-esteem to be based in what you're wearing ever. That's not a lesson.

Not at the Ramsey's and not at Aaron's house. And, you know, I think it'd be a great growing up thing for them to talk about peer pressure and

all this stuff and trendsetting and following the cool kids and all that crap. Yeah.
Yeah, I think it's a great conversation to have. It is.

And, you know, teenagers actually, and if you'll come in and start with, I grew up poor, so this is hard for me, start with vulnerability, they'll really listen. I bet.
I bet.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it.

In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.