CELEBRITY TRAITORS: Week Three Reaction

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Well, hello, and welcome to this special bonus episode of The Restaurants Entertainment with me, Marina Hyde.

Oh, good, and me, Richard Osman.

I almost forgot forgot my name there.

I'm so shook.

I'm sorry, I've got to wait till next Wednesday to get the bottom of that.

I mean, what an inevitable thing to say, but one of the big dogs has gone and it's the wrong one.

Wow, classic traitors.

What has happened in the last 10 minutes that I want to forensically?

We will go back over both of the last two episodes, but goodness me.

Okay.

Finally, it is finally dangerous.

It's actually danger time now.

Oshikoka.

There's only nine of them left and three of them are traitors.

The banishment of someone, I don't think we use titles in banishments, but okay, they did.

Sir Stephen Pride.

Don't say like Mr.

Nick Mohammed.

You know, we don't use the title, but anyway, we did.

And Claudia said, you've lost such a powerful player.

Now, I would question that.

I would say they lost an influential player, but he failed to use that influence to meaningfully shape the game.

If he was, if he was waiting to move, and I think that's quite possible because obviously he understands the whole, we don't need to get anyone anyone just yet, stay in this lipstream, etc.

If he was waiting to move, he left it too late.

He did.

It's tricky again because he is sort of aware, you know, when he's horrified that they said, Oh, you're the leader of the pack.

And I and I get it because you don't want to be seen as that, but he sort of knows deep down that he was, and that's why he'd had to play it in an earlier

when the big dog theory had been floated for the very first time last week, he did say, Well, of course, I thought the same thing myself.

So I'm not totally convinced that he, you know.

Also, can we just, before we get on to anything, can we talk about this position that doesn't exist, which is the lead traitor?

It's like, yes.

Okay, this isn't a thing, guys.

I just want you all to know that.

I think I've got an idea of like the number two and number three traitors.

That's easier, but I think it's probably more important to get the lead traitor.

It's not Al-Qaeda.

It's predicted.

It's like, you know, the head vampire, like, you know, Max and the Lost Boys.

There isn't a lead traitor.

It's quite like that deck of cards that the CIA had when they were trying to kill all of them.

Yeah, I mean, we confidently predicted.

We talked last time we were all together last Thursday, everybody.

everybody we could not see a way in which Jonathan survived the next two episodes he's played a blinder and yet and yet there he is and yet he's played he's played and he's actually relaxed into it yeah even more so and he's got the most powerful of the faithful Joe Marla literally sitting opposite him staring at him saying I know that it is I'm gonna do the whole podcast like this okay to you because I've got my for the benefit of the tape I have my arms folded.

Joe Marlott is playing this game with the aggro of a civilian, and I am

100%.

He's so angry, he is.

That's why he's just perfect for the show because he is.

You know what?

He had no respecter of status inside or outside the house.

He just says, I know I've got one job.

Like he goes on the rugby pitch.

I know, I've got one job.

We score more points than the other team.

That's what we do.

He's got one job to leave faithfuls there instead of traitors.

It's the only job there.

No ego, no nothing.

It's just let's get it done.

Do I I have to bring the harvest in myself?

Yes, apparently you do.

I mean, he really has absolutely effing had it, hasn't he?

I think in a great way.

If at any point two people as different, yet in some ways similar, as Nick Muhammad and Joe Mahler team up and are telling you the same thing, either one of two things is happening.

Either they are both traitors or they are both faithfuls and they are right.

And that might be the time to go, okay, why don't we just throw everything behind the leader of the faithful?

Because if there's a leader of the traitors, there must be a leader of the faithful.

And if you made it not real positions, I just want to restate this.

Not real positions.

I am the assistant to the regional manager.

That would be if there's six of them out of nine.

Okay, but is it have they missed that moment?

Because

it's still doable, but not really.

Well, not really, because I have, I mean, I know we got we're having to go do lots of things in reverse here, but given who is facing the facing a lot of faces in the sentence, facing the face-to-face murder.

Facing the face-to-face.

Kate, Nick, nick and lucy yeah i mean surely you're gonna have to get rid of nick because he's just too dangerous kate we'll have to come to that in a minute

um but

stay as long as you like stay as long as you like lucy is without a question was one of the first people in these episodes to start saying well excuse me we need to play the game as i've as she's seen the civilian version of the game being played we need to actually start getting numbers before we come in here we need to have theories and we need to back them all the way she understands that that's that needs to happen

more dangerous.

As you said, she'll really come into her own and she has.

She said two things in the last episode, both of which I heartily agree with.

David is saying, well, get on to David and all that.

But he's saying, well, of course, I'm going to be in trouble tomorrow.

And Lucy said, oh, we tend to move on, to be honest.

Which was so astute because what she's trying to say is, we're playing this game not in the way that I've seen it played by the civilians when they've played it before.

Yeah, we start anew every day.

David's in trouble in the normal version of Traitors.

They'd be right back there the following day on him saying well now i'm just going to keep doing this until and then she said hold on a minute what if they're not geniuses yeah you know which is right and if you ally that with what stephen said at the end which is uh this game is stacked against the faithfuls that's absolutely right thank you they don't mean they don't need to do a lot no traitors they don't need to be geniuses you don't need to beat yourself up you don't need to get caught up in the maelstrom of he said she said all of that stuff you just have to take a little step back i think probably in that environment and talking to people who've been in it, and they said you are, the environment is fervid.

You're like,

you're just in it the whole time.

You should just sit back.

Don't worry too much about the traitors.

You know, only one or two people are going to win this whole thing anyway.

It's probably not going to be you.

There's 19 people.

And just play the game.

But is Nick going to survive to be able to...

I mean, surely you would have to.

He's just too dangerous because he's too...

I mean, the thing he did where he strategically said, I'm going to let you win to Jay Marla.

And then I wouldn't say this was the biggest mistake made at that roundtable that we've just seen, but it was the second biggest mistake, I think, probably to say, Oh, I did this by the way, I fixed it.

Because for whatever reason,

if they have nothing to cling on to, they say, Oh, well, that's such it's so stupid.

It is genuinely the opposite of what a traitor would do to say, Oh, I fixed something.

You just wouldn't say.

Well, Kate says, This is the only evidence I have of lying.

You think what him telling the truth about something he just did is the only evidence you have of lying.

And then, you know, at the end, she said, Well,

of course, there's only one person who's shown they're willing to do the traitor's work and get rid of faithfuls he said he's literally just said to you in my estimation there were more faithfuls on the other team and so i'm trying to save faithfuls as much as i can and he's trying to explain that and after this goes yeah you're trying to get rid of faithfuls think no it's i mean it's

we have mentioned before that it's very difficult to be clever in this game it is do you know what and i love nick as you know in every way both on screen and off screen i think it was a step too far in terms of gameplay and i think he probably knows that as well i think the moment he said no i did this deliberately he's thinking, There are board game evenings where this would really work, yeah, or this would slay as a gambit.

And people are going, Do you know what?

He's absolutely right.

Yeah, he's absolutely right.

Whereas on this, people are going, Oh, but but what?

You mean you lied?

Yeah, it's like, Yeah, I think I think they're playing one-dimensional chess, and they don't, even that's too much of a strike.

And in honesty, he would win if you played two-dimensional chess, but he's choosing to play four-dimensional.

The biggest mistake, though, Alan Tony Montana Carr saying, but making a real bish and saying, saying, oh, wait, I have got a shield.

Yeah, that's a that is

and who spotted it?

Yeah, Joe Marla.

Yeah.

And even in the round table, when they're, you know, you don't have to be like this,

you don't have to have this sort of mood.

He goes, yeah, but I'm trying to get rid of traitors.

And Jonathan goes, we're all trying to get rid of the traitors.

And he just goes, well, we're not all trying to get rid of traitors, are we?

Amazing.

Well, in a funny way, someone else who's also gone, I mean,

who also sort of slightly plays it like a civilian is was Mark, who was very emotional.

And the emotions...

I felt so gutted for him.

So did I.

Yeah, it was like watching a competitive version of the death penalty when you know that both people are innocent.

Yeah.

And you're like, oh, no, this is a lot to go through to get rid of one fairly useful faithful.

Well, David, hello, welcome to the game, Mr.

Olajoga.

I mean, I am going to use the titles.

Mr.

Olajoga, O-Be.

Yes.

Yes, as soon as he got threatened and suddenly you think, oh, he's turned up.

Yeah, he has absolutely turned up to the game now.

Be careful because you're clever.

It is amazing how someone's saying we need to be analytical because they do actually do need to stop.

They do actually, we are nearing the point where they're actually going to be.

You've got to look at the numbers now.

Yes.

We always say, and it's absolutely correct.

When there are nine of you left and three of them are traitors, and those three could vote as a block from here on in, and all they've got to do is muddy the water one more time and get like a fourth along to go with them very hard to beat that and then get that person got rid of and suddenly you are.

But if you're Kat or if you're alan or if you're jonathan who's in a weaker position you don't want to share all the money you know that's the that's the point the only thing that can kill the traitors now all of them going ooh over the ten thousand pounds that they would never do a corporate for

i i think i've seen enough of that now

uh so you know the i think that if the traitors wanted to just team up and go the three of us will get through to the end of this which actually would make sense in terms of charity and what have you i think i still think it's hard for him yeah but there's also the muscle memory of every episode of Traitors you've ever seen that makes you go, oh no, I do sort of want to turn on my fellow traitors.

You can see Kat sort of desperate to turn on.

Well, I'm sorry, how come that it was not said in the turret, although we haven't seen their second turret, but she mentioned him at the round table and it wasn't discussed.

And now she's done it again, also at the round table.

Intriguing.

Yeah, I think Jonathan's quite calm about it, right?

I think he understands that the three of them having at least some sort of unity is probably useful.

If it's open warfare, he knows he's going to lose.

He needs everything to stay under the radar a little bit.

He knows that Kat has more power than him.

You can see he knows that.

And he knows that you have to be a person who says names that some of the rest of the people don't say.

I mean, that was a large part of the problem with Stephen.

He couldn't make a mark.

He didn't want to put his pen down and say, well, I think it's...

He couldn't say it.

Some people thought there was some kind of clever alliance with Kate Garraway, who also apparently professionally is unable to have an opinion.

I think that she said it's because of my job that I can't have opinions.

I think you have an opinion by now.

Yeah, I shouldn't be allowed to vote.

I cannot vote.

I'm so sorry.

So you think Nick goes from Kate, Nick, and Lucy.

She's obviously too dangerous.

So Nick got rid of Stephen.

Nick has built an alliance with Joe, but has also tried to build an alliance with Kat and Jonathan, who he thinks are traitors.

And can we take a moment to note that that is the way to win this game if you want to.

He's explicitly said what he's doing, which is

I'm going to keep them so they think I could never, never turn on them.

And then in the end, I'll throw them under the game.

I will say quickly before I go on, genius though he is, he's also said a lot of other names for.

So he said, look, I believe it to be Cat and Jonathan.

The best way to play this game is to keep them around because I need them to keep me around and we'll worry about who the traitors are at the very end.

And that's the way.

to play the game and that's the way he's playing it.

They don't know he is doing that.

They don't have that information.

The information they do have is that he's sort of on side with them.

But they know he's clever and they know he's done something that's really off the wall in terms of doing something very, very strategic.

But he was a game.

But he was wrong.

For me, it's too much of a liability.

I would get red.

Do you think?

I love him that I would get red.

See, I would worry not more about Lucy.

I know what you mean.

But I see there's an argument for Lucy because with Nick.

I'd still recruit her.

Yeah, but Nick is so clever.

He's like a big judo player and you can use his weight against him.

Whereas Lucy,

there's no way, you know, if she gets something between the teeth, she's not going to let it go.

Whereas with Nick, you might be able to Jedi mind trick him.

Yeah.

Well, God, I bet I couldn't.

But so I think probably not Kate, because where's the benefit in getting rid of Kate?

And also there is some heat on her already.

In the parlance of the show.

In the parlance of the show.

Well, if they were to get Jonathan and they recruited again, then you would have to recruit David or Lucy, surely.

I am not sure they would recruit if they were down to.

Because it's getting so small now.

Yeah.

So there may be none of that.

I think if they got down to what, if they get two traitors in a row, I think if they got rid of a traitor now, so we're going to be down to eight after this group, after this

thing.

So in the next banishment will be down to seven.

But it could happen very quickly with Alan, regrettably now after this shield incidence.

It could suddenly having gone nowhere.

And when they have had so little success, it could swing around so quickly on him.

It was a big error, that.

Yeah, it was a huge error.

But then, you know, Jonathan made a series of a series of errors and has absolutely, because people are overthinking and are not sticking to their guns, if they get a traitor next, they don't recruit.

If they get two traitors in a row, I suspect they do recruit.

David or Lucy?

David or Lucy.

Or Nick, if he's in there.

Whoever's still in there out of...

I can't see Nick going, even though he obviously fully understands the game.

It's funny how unless everyone understands it in the same way.

Yeah, that's the problem.

Yeah, it's like if when you're playing chess against someone who doesn't know how to play chess, then

they can literally just throw the board up in the air.

Right.

Celia.

Celia.

I mean,

epic.

Yeah, she's amazing.

Okay, if Kate Garraway's stock is going slightly down because not

showing up enough as an entertainment booking, Celia Umri is just every, I'm watching her go up and up every single second she's on the screen.

Absolutely hilarious.

There is a fan.

Do you ever heard about this mad fan theory?

I'm quite into some of the fan theories.

Celia has been named as a sort of detective character and she's some sort of mole within the game.

It's bizarre how much like traction this has got.

I don't believe that can be the case because what we as we've said before joy of this particular game is that you you the viewer does feel omniscient and sometimes there are little bits like you know diane and ross and that's a sort of fun

but it's not it's not a sort of huge like um i mean it gets to be the like the tv moment of the year or whatever but it's not it's not something like you'd say oh well that's just a complete squiz now you've just fooled me and you pulled the world over you can't hide things from me I would say having spent some time with Celia over the last year absolutely every single thing she has done is consistent with her own personality yeah the traitors have said who's the weakest who's the most two-faced and it's and it's a staple of reality TV and has been forever and ever and ever or you know lying yourself in order of attractiveness or all of those things and it's a brilliant way of getting amongst a group and a brilliant way of exposing who traitors are so it's a really neat thing but then they go okay so who's the most two-faced you think that is textbook that goes to the heart of everything that you know because are the traitors going to say one of themselves uh and celia just goes oh i think me don't you yeah oh i think i do because i often say i like people but i don't really

and even alan who obviously understands the format very very well and understands it as an entertainment format said i mean i thought we were going to have tears

you know shouting people sawing off it's just almost saying no i really just would have to put myself forward on this one And Kate, to her immense benefit as well, when they said who's the weakest player, she goes,

I sort of have to put my hand up to that one.

You know, it's so

it's like I'm a huge John LeCarrey fan.

But, you know, there are Le Carre novels where you're in the middle of them, and so many people are playing so many people off against each other, and there are so many different sides.

And it's like, you know, there's suddenly a dodecahedron of prisms of light going everywhere.

That was Nick and Joe Marla choosing between Jonathan and Stephen and having to fix who we go for because of who's in the different groups.

I mean, that was even Le Carre would have had to have a couple of pages where he sort of went back and did a little bit of explanation before he did.

I mean, that was so through the looking glass.

I mean, I love it.

For me, that's yeah, I absolutely loved it.

But you just think

you're not going to be Nick, Nick.

I know, amazing.

And Joe's like,

but roll with it.

Yeah, but you say I even but when it happened you think absolutely get it I mean he's wrong Nick

unusually but the one thing you're definitely thinking is that is not going to play at the round table my friend nobody is gonna go if he goes no no but think about it no no one's thinking about it this is a venue where people think that if you're not sufficiently grateful for having a shield then you're definitely a traitor which in this case if you actually forget you have one I think that is a bit of a howler but it is very route one they hate anything that deviates from their lack of imagination It may be a thing, and we haven't really talked about it, that because they are all,

you know, they come at it from, you know, different spheres, they all sort of know each other, but they all have their own careers that are sort of adjacent to each other, that they have not been able to coalesce in any useful way.

They do have an independence.

that is lacking from the regular version.

Well, as we keep saying,

the life on the outside is very important.

That takes primacy.

It is for two different audiences that you're doing.

Well, there's one person in there who who probably just the one person in there who could be immediately useful to you in the outside world, and that's Jonathan because he's got his own chat show and he's very well connected and this or the other.

And being in his orbit, it would be a useful thing.

And you can see an awful lot of people in there think that.

And that's not something that anyone has to think about in the regular version.

But that's why it is so great having Joe in there because,

I mean, Joe, 100%, that would be a, you know, writes a book next year, goes on Jonathan Ross.

Absolutely.

You can see that.

He does not give.

Oh, he's not going to the Halloween party.

Let me tell you that.

He's going to get it shut down.

Yeah, even though you can immediately, there's like 50 costumes that would be amazing on here.

Yo, I don't know.

Yeah.

Jonathan Ross has a famous Halloween party every year.

Yeah.

So point that out.

But check the arrivals because I don't think I'm going to be seeing Joe Barma among them.

But maybe I will.

Maybe I will.

Maybe you won't.

Yeah.

I don't think we've seen Joe.

I don't think we'll be seeing Claire.

I think there's a number of people.

I don't think we've seen Ruth.

There's a number of people who will not be at that party.

But yeah, so Joe seems to be meaningful.

It's a school where actually it's really uncool to be clever yeah a little bit there's a there's a lot of that right so it's just very difficult i've only just noticed something because it was slightly out of character ola shoger saying the thing about stephen fry is he's a genius uh and that of course is someone who's enormously clever he kept saying it as well by the way this way they are murdering this week which which i definitely think they've done in the uk version before where you see the traitors when they murder you but they have done in the us version and is incredibly exciting and affecting.

I'm very much looking forward

to that.

That's the thing as well.

I mean, Kate is going, it's just definitely going to be me.

And you go, talk us through that.

Talk us.

Talk us.

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Say one interesting thing.

Go on, go in your little diary room and say something.

I have to say, I because you need every angle on this.

I think she genuinely understands that

she's playing it differently to other people.

She did a funny video this week trying to sort of lean into that whole thing that Alan Carr had said about going into the broom cupboard, you know.

So she did that.

I have to say, Alan and Kat did a TikTok where they like did it to nine to five and they put on, they were getting ready and getting on their traitors' cloaks.

And of course, that spawned millions of fan theories because where's Jonathan?

You know, and they were all going down the street.

Celebrities are slightly liabilities in that way because I don't think you really should be doing that.

Probably.

I'd probably rather you didn't do that.

It is now the current eternal conundrum of the publicity officer, which is they want you to do a TikTok, but also they don't want you to do a TikTok.

Or if they do, they say, can you do exactly the TikTok I want you to do?

I will do a TikTok for you, but it has to be mine.

So they were sort of skipping down the street and there was no Jonathan.

And so then everyone was like, well, they've just done a spoiler that there's no Jonathan or, you know, why didn't they pass a bus?

But then they made Jonathan will be underneath it.

Yeah.

So they haven't done that.

It is worth noting that across the last two episodes, every single vote that came in, not a single vote for Alan, not a single vote for Kat.

Those are days are gone.

I don't know, because with the Alan thing, will people even remember?

I mean, Alan says, you know, I mean, the trouble is because Joe's got his Jonathan theory and you can only go for for one.

He might throw some other manure around and say, well, by the way, sorry, can we all at least talk about the fact that Alan did not even remember he had a shield?

That is mega-suspicious.

I still think it's Jonathan, but you know, he might put that catamuncal pigeons and should do if no one else does.

Well, if Nick's gone, who has Joe got to help him?

So Lucy is smart, but I don't think there's a big connection between her and Joe.

Obviously, the three traitors are not going to be helpful in any way.

David is a bit of a lone wolf.

It's quite difficult.

He's got to lead his life according to the Night Rider Creed.

One man can make a difference.

Did you see the message we got from one of our listeners after you talked about how great the drivers are?

You say these stunt drivers who are...

Well, you and I do not drive and therefore consequently incredibly impressed by driving.

And I thought the way that they do, you know, they really coordinate all their Land Rovers and whatever.

And actually, it was one of the sort of producers saying it was a researcher, I think, saying

it's just us.

It's just us.

We're trying to like do all this other stuff at the same same time, listen to what they're saying.

Yeah, but yeah, we did pull up under the porch pretty nicely, didn't we?

Yes, you did say,

I will accept.

We absolutely nailed the portico driving.

It looks really good.

Well, we're very impressed by any form of driving.

Enormously impressive.

I won't name that person because, listen,

you never know

if you're supposed to do that sort of thing or not.

You know, what we're talking about is it going to be difficult for Alan.

When Alan was talking about maybe getting rid of Stephen, and he said, well, the thing about it is it would absolutely blow their minds.

And he says, he said, and with this, it always takes them a couple of days to recalibrate which was so astute yeah and it's and it's it's it's exactly right isn't it so you can they tend not to be able to focus on two things at once like a jackdaw that's just spotted a weasel it doesn't want to it can't see a stoat at the same time another thing he said i thought was very telling about like how actually the game it's so claustrophobic being in there he said oh my god week one alan and you're thinking you have actually only really been there about five days but you do feel like you've been there about you know a month yeah yeah um and so that was a sort of telling sense of how time works in the castle, which for us on the outside of the game can often feel like, oh, come on, how can you not?

But I do think time works differently when you're sort of removed from absolutely everything.

The other question we've had from lots and lots of our listeners, thanks everybody.

And by the way...

How much do we enjoy doing these?

I'm so happy that people enjoy listening to them because it's just lovely to talk about.

It's like sport, but for television.

Yes, exactly.

But people keep asking who's the dream cast for the next series.

Well, obviously, I want to see Roy Keen.

That just goes without saying.

Roy Keene would be amazing.

I think Roy and micah richards yeah well shira think about shira okay let's do the sports ones first okay andy murray really come on if not judy judy would be incredible judy would be very very good judy takes yeah absolutely zero nonsense from anyone yeah christian horner what christian horner you don't want christian horner to be in traitors i do you know how happy i would be i think i would then i would have stenthals injury what does he bring though What doesn't he bring?

He's a full threat.

He loves to talk.

Think how long his diary room pieces would be.

He'd try and make the show.

He tries to sort of make the show all about him.

It would be a blaze of glory.

The football manager type would be very people who are used to doing post-match analysis.

The sporting person I think would be amazing in there, just in terms of status, stature, how seriously they'd be taken, how amazing they'd be as a faithful, but also how incredible they'd be as a traitor, is Gareth Southgate.

Don't you think?

So, Gareth, Wrighty would be brilliant.

Oh my god, Wrighty would be the Joe Marla, that he would be just deeply emotional the whole time and really, really care.

Mark Bonner fused with Joe Marla.

Wow.

Yeah, right.

Colleen, if not, Rebecca Vardie will probably do it.

Constantly.

Great idea.

Colleen Rooney.

Yeah, well, you know she wants to do different things or else she wouldn't be doing the things she's done.

No politicians at all.

No, I don't think that's a problem.

Absolutely no politicians.

I think that's a...

That's not

anyone with any sort of

divisiveness in that sort of way.

That's the beauty of this woman.

You don't have to have someone who stirs the pot.

Oh, no, you know what?

It'd be great because they're just, you know, they say what they think.

And you you know what?

We all say what we think all the time.

I tell you what, we don't do is tell you we're saying what we're thinking.

We just do it.

Anyone who ever tells you they're saying what they're thinking, you absolutely, they're on the grift.

Well, they've, yes, but they've also just watched so much reality TV that they feel that they have to constantly, you know, lost themselves.

Yeah.

Just say what you think.

Almost any comedian, you know, like, I mean, obviously, I think someone like Lou Sanders would be absolutely great.

I mean, Lou would be a good person.

She's such a maverick.

It's so funny.

I mean, how would she even fit in?

Johnny Vegas, I think, would be very, very good.

I'd like to see that.

He would be disruptive.

Rosheen, I'd like to see in there.

Roche would be fantastic.

Yeah,

I think she'd be terrific.

A few left-a-field people.

Because

listen, we want famous people.

Jennifer Saunders, by the way, I thought would be

amazing in there.

I'd love her to go in there.

A few left-a-field.

Rebecca Lucy Taylor.

Self-esteem.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, she'd be.

Would be amazing because she's funny.

She's

opinionated.

She's got the Joe Marla absolute, you know, Sheffield steel going all the way through all Rotherham Steel, I think, maybe.

Loyal Carner, I always absolutely love on anything he ever does.

He's so smart.

I think he'd be an amazing person to have in there.

And Lisa Tarbuck, I'd love to see in there.

Kirstie Young because she listens.

People who are listening and looking for Celia has, although she kind of is such a maverick, she goes in different directions.

But noticing the absence of things is so significant.

Like she noticed the absence of something in Kat, and that was significant.

And she may go back to that.

What about Jason Isaacs?

He's totally unfiltered.

I think he'd be good.

Oh, my God.

Do you think he'd do it?

That would be amazing.

I mean, yeah, he is

absolutely unfiltered.

It'd be brilliant.

Because

he would ask any question at all times of anyone around that table.

That'd be great.

But then people would go, yes, but you're an actor, so of course you're a traitor.

But you think, I think it's the person that Claudia tapped on the shoulder of the traitors rather than the people doing it to Rado.

I could be wrong.

I absolutely could be wrong about that.

Lorraine Kelly.

I've put her.

Yeah.

Also, Carol Kirkwood.

Sorry, just from the

morning, ladies.

Yes, please.

Nagger, Naga.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That could go.

That would go.

I mean, that would go off.

That would go all the way.

She'd play like a civilian.

If she would play like a civilian.

If you thought you were a traitor, you would know about that.

Oh, yeah.

You'd know you'd been served.

Patrick Kielty.

Yeah, Paddy Kielty.

He'd be good.

Yeah, he'd be very good.

Marion Keys.

Oh, my love to be honest.

She'd be epic.

Again, people who maybe the public know less, but Marion, anytime they see her or anything or hear her or anything, she's so brilliant and perspicacious and really understands human nature.

And those are the people, so you've got to have those big names, but you've got to have the Joe Marla type people.

You've got to have people there who, if you've come across them in your life, you just think, oh man, if the public saw more of you, they would absolutely love you.

And people who would not be daunted by the game and people who would not be daunted by the other personalities.

around you know in the same way so Joe Marla is not daunted by Stephen Fry and Claire Balding and Jonathan Ross self-esteem would not be daunted by any of those people.

She wouldn't be daunted.

She might be daunted by Sir Gareth Southgate.

You have to have a YouTuber, and on that, I think they should have Amelia de Boldeberg if they can get her.

She'd be so brilliant.

That's a great idea.

She would not be daunted, as we can see from every chicken chip date.

That's a great idea.

She would be very, very good.

Three weeks ago, I've said Sarah Ferguson, but a red line's gone through that potential.

Maybe it has.

Because I was thinking Prince Harry, because what a way to rehabilitate yourself with the public.

You know, that's because he's on that 50-50 knife issue.

It's a plot for a brilliant comedy drama.

Yeah.

That in order to

win back the nation, he enters a reality TV form.

Called The Traitors.

And you're like, but your family's got a history with actual traitors.

I mean, this is, yeah.

Would Zander do it?

He would genuinely be great because he would take it very, very seriously.

Someone I saw the other day and I thought, oh my God, you'd be amazing on Celebrity Traitors is Miles Jupp.

Oh, yeah, he would be brilliant.

Because I love Miles.

He makes every room more fun.

Yes.

He makes every group a more fun group.

But, you know, stick a bit of pressure on him and who knows what happens.

He, you know, he laughs everything in, which is amazing.

I'd love him.

I'd love Rob Bryden.

I mean, I just want Rob Bryan on all the television shows.

I want angels of chaos like Jerry Halliwell or Joss Stone, maybe even Adeen from Girls Aloud.

It could go off.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because you want that.

And it might not.

They might just play an incredibly safe.

In fact, in terms of who they are going to book, you need four or five absolute blue chips.

You just absolutely do.

You need your Lorraine Kelly's and Sir Gareth Southgates and people like that, Jennifer Saunders.

You need those people where people just go, oh, wow,

that's amazing booking.

You need three or four people who people don't know.

Like we had Ruth and Nico, and unfortunately, a lot of them voted out this one, but Kat is a perfect example.

Someone who we didn't know before, but you're like, okay,

normally I do think they reflect the country.

That's something else I was thinking about.

They do reflect the country slightly.

And the American one is so, you know, Machiavellian and survival of the fittest.

Whereas ours, I think there is so much deference to perceived class or intellectual amazing.

It's so like us, you know, and also the old really just really stab the young.

Yes.

Sorry.

I mean sorry boomers and even lower than boomers.

They really got rid of the young.

And that's because what I worked up with the books a long time ago is all old people are just young people who are older.

But you know what?

It's just...

I know this isn't the message of the Thursday murder club.

Well, it sort of is.

You know, young people have never been old.

All old people have been young.

So they have a slight advantage over you.

You've got to have the people who the people don't particularly know, but are sort of slightly wild cards for that very reason.

Yeah, exactly that.

And then you need your sort of

Nationally Treasury type people at Master Jup, Gabby Logan.

The person I would love only because I think the documentary is fascinating is Eddie Hearn.

Oh, yes.

Either they watch it, in which case they want to go on, or else

you can't imagine yourself saying to E.G.

Alastair Campbell, well, the format of the show is, Alistair, that this is how it happens.

I've never seen it, but I'm sure I'll be fine.

In a way, that's why they're scared of Jonathan is because,

well, as you say, he's very influential on the outside, whatever but actually because they believe that he is the absolute completist and understands the game better than anyone else and they keep saying now oh no one's sort of more versed in traitors law than oh they don't put it that way but you know what I mean Mohamed yeah then yes I agree but they think it's Jonathan they think he is the super fan who knows all the answers I think it's almost impossible to play the game better than Jonathan has played I agree I was disparaging about aspects of it but he the fact that he's still here is a testament to how well he turned it around yeah we're probably gonna going to have to, but we could literally talk for like four hours, right?

I know.

I really, I'm very sorry that we have to start.

I'm very sorry we have to wait till next Wednesday to find out.

I literally, it's infuriating.

We have to wait.

But, you know, it's like the old days of Telly.

Yeah.

Isn't it?

Oh, Giles Brandreth.

Oh, yes.

Okay.

Fair enough.

Giles would be a lot of fun.

You've got to get him.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I don't always interrupt my outros with the name Giles Brandreth, but I have today.

Thank you so much for listening, everybody.

Whether you're listening straight afterwards, in which case we're still reeling, or whether you're listening tomorrow morning, we'll do it all again next week, Shannon.

Yeah, we will do.

And also, if you want to listen to our regular episodes, there'll be one on Tuesday.

There will be one on Tuesday.

See you next Tuesday, everybody.

See you next Tuesday, everyone.

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