I Want My MTV! - The Youthquake Begins (Part 1)

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Speaker 6 Hello and welcome to this bonus episode of The Wrestlers Entertainment with me, Marina Hyde.

Speaker 3 And me, Richard Osman. Hello, members.

Speaker 6 Hello, members.

Speaker 3 Lovely to have you here. A fun story we've got.
We're going to do this as a three-parter because the more you look into it, the more there is to it.

Speaker 6 It's an amazing story about something that you can't quite imagine life without, but it began. MTV

Speaker 6 began right back in 1981 and it became an extraordinary pop culture phenomenon.

Speaker 6 It's so big that the MTV generation

Speaker 6 is an expression that people knew exactly what you meant by it. But now the UK channels are being shuttered.

Speaker 6 It's almost like it's the end of the story and it was the most extraordinary entertainment story that seemed like a really obvious idea, but it wasn't at all.

Speaker 3 It wasn't at all. Yeah, it had very inauspicious beginnings.
MTV. Funnily enough, it was the brainchild of a company which no longer exists.
Don't go looking for it.

Speaker 3 Called Warner Amex, which, as you can imagine, was a joint venture between Warner Brothers and American Express.

Speaker 3 Okay, Julian Marriage made it heaven in so many ways, but yeah, and so there's a guy called John Lack who was a exec VP at Warner Amex. He has this idea with other people there.

Speaker 3 Essentially, they're thinking there's a very sort of clear and calculated corporate mission. They feel that kids and adults are both well catered for in television.

Speaker 3 We know there's lots of adult TV out there, soap operas, sitcoms, stuff like that. Kids, there's loads and loads of kids' TV.

Speaker 3 But they felt that there was a potentially lucrative teenage, young adult demographic demographic that was being overlooked.

Speaker 6 Yeah, making money out of teenagers and young adults.

Speaker 3 Wow.

Speaker 6 Well, that was the whole of rock and roll. That's when people think that teenagers were invented, but they became this huge paying audience.

Speaker 6 But as time had gone on, they stopped being sort of served by, I suppose, traditional media. And they did think that

Speaker 6 they wanted to put the equivalent of rock radio onto television, which again is a very, very simple idea.

Speaker 3 Yeah, so they set out to, they thought, what would specifically engage 12 to 34-year-olds? That's essentially what they're thinking.

Speaker 3 And they come up with this idea of rock radio on TV. So rock radio was a thing.
And

Speaker 3 videos had just about started. This is the really interesting thing about this story, is we think, oh, of course, people started making loads of videos.

Speaker 3 And so we just thought, well, let's put them all together. But the truth was...
people hadn't really started making videos at this point.

Speaker 6 The Anglophone World One country made amazing music videos, and it certainly wasn't America.

Speaker 3 It wasn't. So we were making it.
But essentially, when John Lack was pitching this thing, the Americans didn't really make videos.

Speaker 3 So this idea of having this back of the envelope idea, rock radio on TV, 24-7, jukebox, the catnip for teens,

Speaker 3 sounded great. But actually, where was the stuff going to come from?

Speaker 6 Well, what you want it to be is you want it to be the most perfect thing ever, which, and it now, in hindsight, looks like, oh, wow, what an amazing idea for a TV channel.

Speaker 6 Somebody else, the record companies and artists, make all the music videos, which they then give to you for free because it's advertising for them.

Speaker 6 And you sell advertising in between that advertising.

Speaker 3 So your costs are essentially zero.

Speaker 6 Yeah, it runs 24-7 and, you know, people love it. But so you think, my God, this is such a gimme.
And yet it wasn't.

Speaker 3 It wasn't. Because the second that John Lack goes out there and says to all the record companies, guys, look, we got this idea.
Could you go out and make us some videos?

Speaker 3 And all of the record companies are like, sorry, this is a channel where someone else pays for all of your stuff, but you keep all of the advertising.

Speaker 3 And the head of MCA, who's Sidney Sheinberg, who we've talked about weirdly on Jules and Waterworld, he said

Speaker 3 about John Lack, he said, this guy Lack is out of his fucking mind because we ain't given him our music.

Speaker 6 Oh, Sid, you will end up giving him your music.

Speaker 3 So the Americans didn't make videos, was essentially the problem.

Speaker 6 If you had to put a song out and you didn't have the band there, you had concert footage.

Speaker 3 But the good news is there was was one territory who had started making music videos. And that's where, very rarely, that we're the

Speaker 3 heroes of these things.

Speaker 6 Well, not always, not in music necessarily, but the country was Britain. And

Speaker 6 British bands were really early adopters of music videos, in large part because of top of the pops. If you couldn't be there that week, then you wanted to have something that they could play.

Speaker 6 And it wasn't, you know, you weren't just going to have concert footage from somewhere else.

Speaker 6 And there was also a very strong visual identity to lots of the late 70s and 80s music scene in the UK, and you had the Nomantics, you had whoever.

Speaker 6 But British music labels, again, very often very forward-thinking, saw the commercial advantage in having something really great that could sell things.

Speaker 3 Yeah, videos, yeah, videos really took off in the UK because they worked out that rather than, I mean, listen, you're a record company executive in 1980 in the UK, and you're thinking, okay, I've got Adam and the Ants, I've got whoever, I've got Spandal Bally.

Speaker 3 One thing I could do is send them all off on a tour of America and put them up in hotels and pay for their limos and pay for their flights.

Speaker 3 Or I could just put them in a warehouse in Broccoli, shoot a video, and that could do all of that.

Speaker 6 It's going to be hard enough, by the way. It's going to be hard enough.

Speaker 6 I'm not trying to make that a small task.

Speaker 3 But at least that's slightly more manageable than sending all these bands off on.

Speaker 6 So, if you want them to break in Australia, and you know, they've got, say, the big morning show in Australia said, Oh, we would love, we'd love to show the song.

Speaker 6 Do you either send them all over there or do you have a video?

Speaker 3 Anyway, so there was a good we trust Martin Kemp for sure. We're not sure about Russia.

Speaker 6 There is a lot of liabilities on that.

Speaker 3 So Britain had started making videos and empty videos.

Speaker 6 And they were arty and they had a vibe.

Speaker 3 They were not concert footage. Yeah, because they were very aware that

Speaker 3 actually these foreign media outlets, if it was something that was extraordinary, they would play it instead of asking you to send the band over. So everyone's lives are made easier.

Speaker 3 It was cheaper than sending bands over. Actually, if you are Good Morning Australia, it's better to have a really nicely shot video than have five musicians who don't want to be there.

Speaker 6 Complete liabilities at 7 a.m.

Speaker 3 Sitting on

Speaker 6 your sofa. That's found a balloon necessarily.
I'm just talking about any people who could be in bands in the early 80s.

Speaker 3 So MTV were having trouble persuading the American record companies to stop making expensive videos, but they decided they wanted to get going anyway.

Speaker 6 Yeah, because they thought that there would be a flywheel effect and people would see, because they really believed in the idea.

Speaker 3 Yeah, exactly. First day.
Largely British-based. Yeah.

Speaker 6 Well, first day is August the 1st, 1981. Everyone says, oh my god, this is amazing.
You know, it's like the day, this day in music history. In fact, it was a technical nightmare.

Speaker 6 There was a lot of dead air.

Speaker 6 They'd invented something called VJs, which had not existed, of course, which were video jockeys because they had disc jockeys on rock radio. They'd pre-recorded some of the links.

Speaker 6 They played in the wrong order.

Speaker 6 They introduced the wrong songs. But because they were only broadcasting it in one of those tiny little affiliate markets in New Jersey, very few people saw those mistakes.

Speaker 3 Even a lot of the executives from Warner Amex had to drive to New Jersey to watch it happen because it's the only place they could see it. The VJs were people who had very, very little experience.

Speaker 3 Some of them had worked on radio. One of them was a bartender.

Speaker 3 They said to all of them, look, my God, don't move near the studios and don't give up your job because this is not going to last long for you.

Speaker 6 For God's sake, don't commit to this.

Speaker 3 It felt like, you know, John Lack.

Speaker 3 So you can see where you are at that point. 1981, you can absolutely taste the fact that this could be an incredible business opportunity if you can get it off the ground.

Speaker 3 So you've got to give it a go. All they have is a tiny, tiny market in New Jersey and some British videos.

Speaker 6 Yeah, well, the first video ever played on it was the Buggles video killed the radio star bit on the nose, but.

Speaker 6 And so he, that was directed by Russell Malkay, who did loads of iconic of the 80s music videos, Totally Clips of the Heart, I'm Still Standing, Rio, Vienna. I mean, that's it.

Speaker 6 I mean, that's, yeah, that's not bad, is it? That's not a bad

Speaker 6 calling card is it?

Speaker 6 But anyway he helped make the music videos in art form but the next four songs were You Better Run by Pat Benetar, You Better You Bet by The Who, She Won't Dance With Me by Rod Stewart and Little Susie's On the Up by PhD.

Speaker 6 Now four of the first artists ever played on MTV, four of the five were British.

Speaker 3 And even in that first day they played Rod Stewart 16 times. 11 different songs, but they did play him 16 times.
He knows a good deal when he says

Speaker 3 they played In the Air Tonight by Phil Collins five times that day.

Speaker 6 It is a big part of how Phil Collins, essentially a ball drummer, became, but who committed to video, became a star.

Speaker 3 They also played on that first day of play Delpha Costello, Cliff Richard, Iron Maiden, Ultra Vox, Kate Bush, the specials. So it was very, very, very British.
That was the first day of MTV.

Speaker 3 That's where this huge behemoth came from. But again, with these things, quite often, if you build it, they will come.
You have to start somewhere. You have to do it.

Speaker 3 Sometimes you just think, well, this feels impossible. No one's going to give us this stuff.
But they just went, you know what, put some money into it. We'll do it.

Speaker 3 Once it's started, we can work out what's wrong with it.

Speaker 6 But because the Brits have done these amazing videos, they had all the androgynous hair cuts, you know, the new, the whole new romantic thing.

Speaker 6 And actually, there are bands like REO Speedwagon, Styx, whatever.

Speaker 6 But one of the DJs said, the VJs, sorry, said, I've seen these REO Speedwagon videos so many fucking times, I've run out of things to say because it was all concert footage.

Speaker 6 They just didn't have this culture. And you can say a lot about a new romantic video.
There's whole plot lines happening there.

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Speaker 6 But one of the most interesting things about how it really got off the ground was this whole sort of rural fan base that developed.

Speaker 6 Because the way cable TV worked in the area. I was going to say that.

Speaker 3 It developed in rural areas purely for technological reasons, not for anything else.

Speaker 6 In order to get TV out to rural areas,

Speaker 6 you couldn't get the TV signal out there. So they had to sort of

Speaker 6 aerily. So they built these cable networks

Speaker 6 and urban centers had kind of strong broadcast signals and it was a real trouble to dig up the road there. So they didn't really have cable.

Speaker 3 So MTV starts on cable and so what essentially MTV is starting, which again sounds like maybe this is a disadvantage.

Speaker 3 it turns into the biggest advantage of all it's only in rural areas it moves out of new jersey after a while and you know suddenly it's in it's in other homes but all of those homes are in small rural markets they are not in the big urban centers they're not in the big where the conversation is happening.

Speaker 3 They're not where all the journalists are. They are literally just going out to ordinary human beings.

Speaker 6 But those ordinary human beings know they're getting it all before New York and London.

Speaker 6 There's this real prestige of the fact you're seeing all this new music and you're getting it first, you know, and you're getting it before New York and LA.

Speaker 6 You're in Tulsa, you're in Oklahoma, you're in Michigan.

Speaker 3 What happens is this, and this is the absolute pivotal moment where MTV is born.

Speaker 3 So the record companies started hearing about this thing, MTV, and it started, you know, with these cool videos and people.

Speaker 3 So they said, well, let's go out into some of these markets and see if it's having any sort of impact at all.

Speaker 6 Well, they can see sales spikes in places like Oklahoma.

Speaker 3 But why is it happening? They send someone out to Tulsa to hear what's playing on Oklahoma radio.

Speaker 3 Okay, now what's playing on Oklahoma radio is what's been playing on Oklahoma Radio forever, which is, you know, country and classic rock and this, sort of, the other.

Speaker 3 But then they go around to the record stores and ask them, what's selling? And every single record store in Oklahoma gives them the same answer.

Speaker 3 I'll tell you what's selling Duran Duran Spandar Ballet Flock of Seagulls and they are flying off the shelves and none of these acts are being played on radio, which is how you traditionally get a hit.

Speaker 3 None of them. But all of them are playing on this brand new channel that you can only get in rural areas called MTV.

Speaker 3 The labels saw it literally just overnight went absolutely 180 degrees and started heavily investing in videos because this stuff was just in a market they could absolutely go there they could go to one town they could go to one state they could see what was happening in record stores because you know this is back in the days where record companies were so incredibly reactive to every single sale in every every single store they could see what was happening and there was only one explanation for it and it was this channel which six months previously they'd gone we're not going to make stuff for you they suddenly went oh we can make a load of money out of this as well they worked out what they worked out what the Brits had worked out.

Speaker 6 Well, there's an unavoidable moment when the Human League's Don't You Want Me goes to number one on the US billboard chart. I've never thought, sorry, I'm so sorry.

Speaker 3 What?

Speaker 6 And so that is in the middle.

Speaker 3 Because it's not on the radio. It's not under their control at all.
But what it is, it's in heavy rotation on MTV. So MTV have got the record companies on board.
Done. Tick.

Speaker 3 The thing that they thought, but surely this will work, they have got that. What they don't have yet is advertisers.

Speaker 6 Because the advertisers don't feel it's reaching significant enough markets because, as I say, the urban centers, they don't have it.

Speaker 3 And it still feels niche and it's new. And advertisers, you know, tend to be, you know, they tend to sort of just watch and wait.

Speaker 6 But we know that young people are thinking, oh, why don't we have it? We wish we had it in LA. We wish we had it in New York.

Speaker 6 So FOMO, before it ever existed as a concept, MTV actually think we can monetize this. And they got so many, and you can see all these on YouTube.
They're kind of amazing. They got loads of bands.

Speaker 6 The police did it. Bowie did it.
All of these people did it. They had a campaign called I Want My MTV.
And it's just people like shouting down the phone, I want my MTV.

Speaker 6 And it's one of those things that then teenagers would just ring their local broader, their cable companies and say, I want my MTV. I want my MTV.

Speaker 6 We want to be able to have MTV, not just the people in Tulsa or wherever it is. And I want my MTV becomes this iconic.
And all the bands do it.

Speaker 3 All the bands do it because

Speaker 3 the bands worked out even before the record companies that this was really, really working for them. Suddenly they were getting fans in places they had never visited.

Speaker 3 And they're like, well, this is weird. You know, it's hard to build a fan base.

Speaker 3 And suddenly they were going, hold on, we've got this organic thing going on here where people are writing to us from places we've literally never played.

Speaker 3 They worked out immediately that MTV was a big thing.

Speaker 6 I'm not thinking how many of that, the bands in those advertising campaigns are all British. It's like Police, Billy Idol,

Speaker 6 you know, the Who, and they're all shouting, America demand your MTV.

Speaker 3 Yeah, in fact, Mick Mick Jagger was asked to do one. I think, you know, just, you know, you know, he was being interviewed about something else.
He said, oh, would you do this? I want my MTV.

Speaker 3 And he said, I'm so sorry, the Rolling Stones don't do commercials. And so the interview, the MTV interviewer said, please, I'll give you a dollar.
And he thought that was so charming.

Speaker 3 He goes, all right, then. And just said, I want my MTV.

Speaker 6 Yeah, yeah, exactly. Anyway, within four months of that advertising campaign, MTV was in 80% of US houses.

Speaker 3 I mean, that must be one of the greatest advertising slogans of all time.

Speaker 6 To make it happen that quickly and to make it feel like it's this youthquake.

Speaker 6 And if you're not doing it, you're losing out on so much money that both the record companies and then the advertisers rush to make the original idea, which remains exactly the same, except adverts punctuated by other adverts.

Speaker 3 And of course, I want my MTV then becomes immortalized in

Speaker 3 Dice Dice Money for Nothing.

Speaker 6 We must sound a negative note here, though, because it was all extremely white. Far less than they might have thought nowadays.
But

Speaker 3 rock radio had been incredibly white. Rock radio is incredibly white.
But you don't notice it so much because it is not a visual medium.

Speaker 3 It became very apparent to people who care, one of whom is David Bowie, that this was an issue for MTV.

Speaker 6 Yeah, and so many of those artists were influenced by masses of black artists and quickly drew attention to the fact that there wasn't enough breadth.

Speaker 6 I mean, really, they were doing themselves out of it because there weren't enough bands to fill 24 hours a day every day of content.

Speaker 3 They had rock radio, which is very white. They had British

Speaker 3 synth-pop acts, which are very white. They started playing soul, but the kind of soul they would play would be like Daryl Hall and John Oates.
And that's the point where you go, okay,

Speaker 3 there is a deliberateness to this.

Speaker 6 Yeah, I mean, they were really going into some different areas.

Speaker 3 And it all comes to a head with one particular song. And it's incredible to think that this was a sticking point for MTV.

Speaker 3 It's incredible to think that the early people of MTV were like, oh, no, this is... This is not going to be what MTV is.
Sorry, we know exactly what MTV is. It is definitely not this.

Speaker 3 And that song was...

Speaker 6 It was Michael Jackson's Billie Jean.

Speaker 6 And it seems so weird, the idea that someone like Michael Jackson or many other black artists wouldn't have been on MTV but that was the state at the time but what happened was that the CBS records president Walter Yetnikoff if you've never read about him he is some kind of monster but amazing he he thought okay why they they passed on the song MTV said no we won't carry Billie Jean and he just thought they said this is not the sort of thing that we have on MTV it's not it's not the style of music we have it's not going to work for our audience yeah and Yetnikoff as I say was quite a business animal just said okay all CBS artists will not appear on MTV if you do not play Billie Gene.

Speaker 6 And that included Bruce Springsteen, Billie Joel, Fleetwood Mac, Cindy Lauper and Paul McCartney. So at that point...

Speaker 3 He also said, I'm going to go public and fucking tell them about the fact you don't want to play music by a black guy. That's what he did.

Speaker 3 But it's unbelievable that they were seeing Billie Gene and not thinking. Oh, people are going to do it.

Speaker 6 It is an amazing spectacle. It's one of the great music videos.

Speaker 3 And also made by the same guy who made the Don't You Want Me video, which I got say, Billie Gene might be a more memorable video.

Speaker 6 Because he's had them over a barrel, Walter Yetnogoff, they end up playing it. It ends up going absolutely massive.

Speaker 3 Who would have thought?

Speaker 6 Changes the trajectory of MTV forever. It was quite good that they relented when they did, because Billie Gene was the second single of that album.

Speaker 6 The third single was Beat It, and the fourth was Thriller. You might have heard of the music video Thriller, widely considered to be the greatest music video of all time.

Speaker 3 And Michael Jackson did enormous business for MTV and MTV did enormous business for Michael Jackson but you have to go back and think you know it's very easy to say oh you know talk about progress and things like this this was 1982 definitively this is someone running a channel saying I will not play this song Billie Jean despite the fact he's playing haul of notes yeah you think what is it that you are seeing yeah all you're seeing is a black artist that's the that's the only reason you're not playing this and the second they go okay we'll play it the whole of america goes yes sorry did you not know we would absolutely love this?

Speaker 6 And so by the time they're playing Thriller, think of what's happened.

Speaker 6 You've moved from a position where basically American artists do concert videos to the Thriller video, which is a 14-minute, you know, appointment-to-view.

Speaker 6 premiere directed by John Landis, had a half a million dollar budget, which was just beyond unheard of at the time. It was like a massive, significant cultural event.
Everyone was talking about it.

Speaker 6 And if they hadn't been forced, they wouldn't have even had it.

Speaker 3 But we find ourselves in a situation here where within two years from John Lack going into those record companies and the record companies going, you have lost your mind.

Speaker 3 There is no way we're doing this. Within two years, you've got genuinely an absolute phenomenon.

Speaker 3 You know, it's the MTV essentially had the ear of the whole world at the moment because it was selling records. It was breaking artists.
It was doing something.

Speaker 3 It was an entirely new thing that hadn't been seen before. It was like you could print money if you're a record company.
And if you're MTV, you can really print money.

Speaker 3 So they're at the situation, they've got this massive cultural power.

Speaker 3 but if you are running ntv you're at the stage and they think okay this is great this kind of this works for us but all you're doing is curating you are not creating anything you are absolutely depending on the record companies to provide you with your content and at a point you think oh we don't really own anything yeah so somebody else you know there's it's a possibility someone else could just do this same thing so they bought built this thing up incredibly you know and the market is there but what's stopping everyone else doing it so they understand they have to have to have to

Speaker 3 investing some money. We now have to own something ourselves.
We've got this teen audience

Speaker 6 because they believe in their power to understand the zeitgeist, and they clearly have been completely right. And you might as well parlay that into something more than just

Speaker 6 saying other people's things.

Speaker 3 Yeah, you've got this audience, which is amazing. The record companies are making a fortune out of you.
You're making a fortune as well.

Speaker 3 And so what they decide to do is I'm going to take advantage of all of these things. We are going to start making original programming.
And that I think we will get to on our second part.

Speaker 6 Well, that's the phenomenal part too.

Speaker 3 To go from everyone saying no to being a worldwide phenomenon, I mean,

Speaker 3 within three years, changing music almost entirely within that era.

Speaker 6 And to be referred to by that stage as a whole demographic, as the MTV generation is quite extraordinary.

Speaker 3 We will see you next time where things take a weirder turn, I would say.

Speaker 6 It was lots of fun. And it was extraordinary fun, I think, working there.

Speaker 6 Absolutely the wildest times. Anyway, we're going to get on to all of that in part two and part three.
But thanks so much, members, for joining us for that.

Speaker 3 And we will see you all on Tuesday.

Speaker 6 See you next Tuesday.