The Best TV Animal EVER

This episode is presented by E.E. Marina, are you hosting or guesting for Christmas this year? Normally, every other year, I am a very grateful guest, but I am now a slightly trepidatious host.

Yes, it is me in the apron having a meltdown over all the cooking. No, I don't think I'll have a meltdown.

It's a lot, isn't it?

But you have to just keep saying to yourself, it's just a big chicken. Just a big chicken.
Just a really big chicken. It's just a really enormous chicken.
We are also hosting this year.

Looking forward to it very much. If you are hosting, then EE has the best broadband technology.
If you are guesting, then EE has the best mobile technology.

And my goodness, you need it at Christmas, right? Yes. The third babysitter, the distractor.
Just when the family walk into the house, it's hello, grandma, hello, granddad. What's the Wi-Fi password?

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While the Who's of Hooville were laughing and eating, the Grinch from his lair sought to wreak havoc on their season. He thought, how do I ruin their holiday meals?

A plan sprang to mind, which he enacted with zeal. Del Pickle's seasoning on fries will make for a green surprise.
And I know they'll be shocked with these loathsome odd socks.

So if you want to experience the Grinch's mischievous meal, head to McDonald's and show him how you really feel.

The new Grinch Meal, now at McDonald's, at Participating McDonald's while supplies last?

Here's my 30-second story with Guinness. As soon as my sister and I get home for the holidays, we don't even unpack.
We head straight to our pub.

The bartender already knows our order, Guinness and Fries. We laugh all night, catch up with old friends, and walk home with faces sore from smiling.
It's one of my favorite nights of the year.

That was my 30-second story with Guinness. Guinness Draft Stout.
Please enjoy responsibly. Imported by the Agio Beer Company USA, New York, New York.

Hello, and welcome to this episode of the Rests Entertainment Questions and Answers Edition. I'm Marina High.
And I'm Richard Osman. Hey, Marina.
Hello, Richard. How are you? I'm so well.

I'm ready to answer. Ready? Of course you are.
Yeah. Of course you are.
Are you ready to question? Oh, yes, I am. Yeah, I'm ready to question.
Should I like, oh, go on?

No, I would like you to question me. Okay, I have a question.
Well, John Andrews wants to question you. Question your worst.
Yeah.

John says, what is the benefit of politicians going on shows like Have I Got News for You? where they're often the butt of all the jokes like Louise Haig.

Are they requested or do they request to be on the show? Well, they

are asked. If you look at the register of members' interest, they get paid.
It's pretty standard.

They tend not to host with a couple of exceptions, which I'm sure we'll get to. But you get about £1,500 to £2,000

for your appearance. I saw Louise Haig's one a few weeks ago.
Yeah, that was a bit of a car crash. You don't have to say yes, of course.

I have been asked many times to do the show, but have always said no. You get more for hosting, I should say.
If you're the

you get about

a substantial multiple. Yes.
Are you hosting this week or are you on it? You're guesting?

I only ever hosted once and because I couldn't read the autocube properly because of my inastagmus, people thought I was drunk. And so, and I'm much, I'm much happier being a guest.

I'm so much happier being a guest. Yeah, I was on it last week.
Guesting is always, always, much, much, much more fun than hosting.

hosting is really hard work whereas guesting you just get to say what you want yes and i suppose so you you know they they probably put in for everybody um and you could or people who the people have actually heard of you're not getting some obscure backbencher this week interestingly it's a very interesting week to ask this question john andrews well done zach polanski is on and Zach Polanski, you know, the greens are going up and up and up in the polls.

A lot of people seem to be liking him. So for him, this will be out tomorrow.
If you listen to this on the Thursday, I think it might be a good thing.

But they will show the clip to anyone who hasn't seen the clip of Jack Zach Polanski explaining that he can make a woman's breast larger via hypnosis in a previous life.

They will show that clip again.

Now, what happened with Louise Haig, if people don't know this story, and obviously a lot more people know this story now, she's been on Harvard News than knew it before, is that she has a fraud conviction because she claimed to have had her company mobile phone, it was a BlackBerry, I think, stolen off her in a mugging.

And in fact, she made a false claim of that and she just wanted a better phone. She wanted an iPhone 5, I believe, at the time, which places that for you in the canon.

I think Zach Polanski could have made that happen with hypnotism. Yes, he could have just got her a better phone.
You can upgrade your phone.

Yeah. The answer is there is one, obviously, we have seen a person who was very who very successfully came to prominence, particularly via that program, actually.

Boris Johnson was asked that multiple times. Unfortunately, to make it work, obviously politicians, we live in an age of sort of anti-politics.

And so the prize for all these people is to try and seem human.

And although our age of anti-politics seems to be only about politics, strangely, but anyway, so it's to try and seem human. Maybe Louise Hague Spads thought she'll seem human.

That's her special advisors. That's it.
Yeah.

But there's a reason that they

thought that, and particularly what must have thought now, is because she must be on some kind of, I keep seeing her on a name linked with various kind of leadership maneuvers within the Labour Party.

They're less likely to go for her now after she's done that show. And I think, I mean, you know, never underestimate the ability of the Labour Party to do something absolutely nuts.

But this isn't going to happen. You have to be very, very good.
And whether or not you like it, Boris Johnson was very, very good on this show. He had a unique persona.
It was sort of uncategorizable.

He had a very dangerous thing that, where he was able to just laugh off off these awful things, which she failed to do, Louise Hague, as an example.

And obviously, whether or not you think it's right he was able to, it's a little bit like being a comedian on traces. You somehow can just sort of laugh and diffuse your way out of it.

And it became a very valuable political tool. We live in a sort of wittocracy, which is if you if you can be funny and you want to rule the world, it's easier.

It's a real superpower to be able to do this because it just manages to diffuse all sorts of difficult situations to kind of divert away from things. And he was able to do that.

And so I think people always just think, oh, if you're trying to expand your profile, that is a staging post. I would not go on it if I had a fraud conviction.

Actually, personally, Zach Plansky is just going to have to keep getting past the fact that he told people he could make their tits bigger by hypnosis.

He's just going to have to keep getting past that fact. But it will, more and more people will find out about people just...

people will just have to not mind about that because he's doing very very well. Yes, I guess he thinks, I mean, it's not something I was aware of, but I have to say.

He said he was sorry for it and he keeps saying I said I was sorry for it. It's like, yeah, I know, but you still did it, didn't he?

Yeah, you have to own it. It is still a very high-profile show, Have I Got News for You? It still does very, very big numbers.

But, you know, all these years later, you know, in an era where there are no more of those shows left, Have I Got News for You

stands alone. It can be incredibly useful for you.
You know, personal brand is everything these days in politics as much as anything else.

So if you are Louise Haig, I guess you're thinking, what if it goes great? You know, if it goes badly, you know what? What if they don't mention my my fraud conviction? Yeah, but even if they're...

I'm just going to keep saying the word fraud conviction, because honestly, what were you thinking? What if I get out in front of my fraud conviction? That's what they were thinking.

Because I've done a few. What if I'm really witty and good and clever in a really kind of dark but brilliant way, like Boris Johnson? What if I'm like that? But you're not, are you?

The thing to spot, the thing you can see with a lot of politicians when they go on it.

It's always my favourite thing is the first round is always they show a little VT of something from the news that week.

And they've seen it a million times before where it's like Ian will be going, oh, there's Donald Trump. Oh, there's, you know, and leads on to a joke.

So the politicians always go, oh, there he is, Donald Trump. Oh, he's in front of a plane.

Oh, there he is. He's in a car.
And there's Joe Biden. And you can see them thinking, sorry, when's the joke? When do I get to the bit that's the joke?

And they go, oh, no, oh, I have to actually think of the joke as I go along. So they do the rhythms of it's going to be.

Like Like a cargo cult, and eventually a joke will just come into my head and I'll say it. And it doesn't.
And I feel, I always feel awful.

But I did it with Jess Phillips, who can absolutely handle herself, and Ruth Davison also can completely handle herself.

And for people like that, it's a great show to do because neither of them have a fraud conviction.

I think it helps, yeah. But you know, in that world, you know, it does, it opens up doors for you and people can see who you are as a real human being.

And, you know, Jess Phillips will have a go at the Labour Party, and Ruth Davison will have a go at the Tory Party. So they're sort of, you know, fairly Teflon in that regard.

So I think it can be useful if you are a good, funny, strong personality. I think if I'm the producer of High Got News for You and Ruth Davidson wants to come on, great, I get two things.

I get a politician who can talk in a certain way and also I get someone who's going to be

and if there is someone like Elouise Haig, well, I can't lose because either she's great, you think, oh brilliant, that's someone I can now book for the next five series and she'll have an insight into the Labour Party and that's very, very useful.

And if she's bad, that's good as well because people like seeing a politician do badly if I book a comic and they don't do well that's hard there's no no one gains from that if I book a politician they don't do well then this it all feeds into the show and it it becomes quite viral obviously they would rather people do well because that makes bookings easier for the future but there there is nothing to lose if you're the producers by booking a politician there always is something to lose if you are a politician but

I think she also had something tactical to prove I think she knew that it would be in the week of lots of people talking about Rachel Reeves'

failure to declare the thing on the rental agreement. And she wanted to say, well, I was treated up because I was when my fraud conviction came to light.
I keep saying the word fraud conviction.

You see, this is the problem with it. But when it came to light,

I was got rid of as transport minister, and she hasn't been got rid of as chancellor. And I think she kind of wanted to put, say,

this has been unfair. This is not the forum to do this.
Yeah, it's like Zach Polanski has made your fraud conviction bigger with the use of hypnosis.

But I get it.

It is a siren call. And if you're asked to do it, there is something about Have I Gone News Review?

It's one of those shows that does have a cachet and is that sort of thing like you think, oh, maybe I could.

Maybe, you know, I've seen, you know, I've watched that show for many, many years, and my friends say I'm funny.

So, you know, maybe, you know, but then, yeah, you do see them get halfway through a bit. You have to know where this bit is finishing when you start it.

There's every comic who's on this show has they've thought of the joke first, and the setup is them going, how do I set up that joke?

Okay,

I'll say this uh and so I it's that that's worth looking out for but Polanski listen who knows I'm fascinated to see it tomorrow or today if you're listening to this on Friday or yesterday if you're listening to this on Saturday is available on an iPlayer okay a question from Derek Lorde he says how much rehearsal is there between TV interviewers and their guests how much is spontaneous and how much is pre-planned I mean it depends on the show

really

most things it's spontaneous on pretty much any show you go on, you will have a briefing call the day before.

If you're on Lorraine or if you're on Graeme Norton or if you're on BBC Breakfast or any of these things, you'll have a briefing call and they'll say, because usually you're on something because you're promoting.

And so it's sort of

those briefing calls are a bit for them and a bit for you. So, you know, if you're promoting a book, you know, they'll say, oh, so tell us about the book, tell us this, that, or the other.

I read an interview, you said this.

They're essentially, they know they have to set up, you know, write a list of notes for their presenter to, you know, when you come on, if you're on Beauty Breakfast, you're there for seven minutes or whatever.

And they just need to know. They say, oh, we'll talk about the book.
Then maybe we'll talk about, if it was me, maybe we'll talk a bit about House of Games and what's happening with that.

And maybe, oh, I know that you're a big fan of celebrity traitors. Maybe we'll talk about that.
So you'll have an idea of what

might be... asked of you.
Certainly they won't tell you what the questions are. And the first question will be, yeah, will usually be the thing you know it's going to be.

But good interviewers, like you go on Beauty Breakfast and someone like Charlie state, he never sticks to what the questions are and he knows that you know if depending on who his guest is that they're able to kind of go off script so there'll always be a briefing so the presenters will know roughly what the guest thinks is going to happen the guests will roughly know what the interviewer is going to ask but most good interviews sort of come off the back of that that's just to keep everyone safe if you've got something like graham norton that's slightly different because it's an entertainment show and the real skill of graham norton is he has those four guests there all the time and it's about knitting them together is they will always do a thing where they'll try and find some connection between the guests.

So your briefing interview on that will not be because they know who you are and what it is that you do.

And so they'll say, oh, and Mariah Carey is on. Have you ever, you know, what's your thoughts on Mariah Carey or Tom Hanks is on and this, that, or the other.

So that's more them as producers just thinking, I wonder if there's a bit of fun for Graham after he's done the main bit of the interview.

When you know those fun bits of Graham Norton, which is always, I was was on with Chris and Rosie Ramsey doing the Hamilton raptor Lynn Manuel Miranda because and you know think things like that so the skill to those things is is to make it as light a touch as possible to make people feel comfortable because lots of people going on those shows have not done those things before so just to make them feel like look don't worry there's not gonna there's not gonna be anything too terrifying that if you have a presenter like Charlie and Naga on the BBC who are interviewing 15 different people across a show that every time a new thing starts they can just look down at a bit of paper and go okay I know where my starting point is yeah

so it's that occasionally you'll do shows I did I did

I did Jack Whitehall and Michael Whitehall had a show once and I was on that with McFly

which is

for me was a thrill and I started saying something or other and it I became aware that that was very very scripted and some sometimes shows are just comedy shows you know so it's you can't really do anything at all.

So some shows aren't really interview shows, they're really, they're really comedy shows. But for the good interview shows, you'll always have a briefing.

So you'll always, you know, they'll say, oh, we talk about this, we talk about that, we talk about that. But you'll come off afterwards and go, oh, we didn't talk about any of those things.
No.

In the end. But in the US, on those late night shows, that is a totally different ballgame.
The publicist has spent a long time

getting... you know, whoever it is, whichever star's promoting these, whether it's Glenn Powell, whether it's whoever,

when they know they're doing a press tour, their best anecdotes, funny things that people may not, or things that may not have been surfaced.

And they will parcel those out and they will tell the people, and then, you know, whether this person is going on, Stephen Colbert or, you know, Seth Myers or whatever, will tee them up to tell this anecdote.

And so much of that, as you say, they might completely deviate, but they've got three absolutely banker anecdotes that you can get out of Kate Hudson or whoever it is.

Yeah, I was watching the Jason Isaacs one where they were getting to do British accents.

And all of that is pre-planned and pre-prepared but always the stuff that is best and every producer will tell you this and every chat show host will tell you this and every great chat-chow guest will tell you this the best stuff is always the stuff that isn't planned but to get to that stuff you do need to plan stuff it's yeah i agree and it's like in anything it's like in theatre or whatever or in comedy when when people have that sense that they're seeing something that is just a response to something that's gone wrong in the show that night and just a bit of covering those get the hugest laughs because it just there's something in the ether that you know it's spontaneous and it just happened and it's an ad-lib and it's brilliant.

And those are always the things that just catch light.

And especially with those kind of US shows where I think that it can feel increasing, you know, and that's the whole point of things like hot ones, which is that it just disrupts everything because you're having very hot chicken wings.

Those are disruptions to that kind of format where it was a really quite carefully mapped out dance. But I agree with you.
Yes, anything that happens spontaneously, you can always tell. Yeah.

Shall we go to a break?

And after the break, we have a question from, I think the greatest answer we were ever given was about sounds in nature documentaries, which Steve Baxhall very, very kindly, and if you've not listened to that episode, he gives us such a brilliant answer.

But Baxhall is back because he has a question this time, which we'll ask straight after these.

This episode is brought to you by Channel 4. Now, Richard, settling down on a winter's evening, turn the TV on.
What sort of thing are you searching for?

Well, when you think about Channel 4, you think about Quirky, you think about slightly off the wall.

My absolute go-to is, well, three things, my absolute go-tos. Grand Designs, because Kevin McLeod is the greatest television presenter in the history of factual entertainment.

24 Hours in Police Custody, again, because it changed the way those things were done.

You know, it changed, we'd seen all sorts of police investigation things, but 24 Hours in Police Custody absolutely had a new, unusual, refreshing way of covering those cases.

And And every single time there is a new one, they have to release them. They can't sort of release them week by week because they're literally waiting for court cases to come through.

Some of them are waiting for years. For years and years and years, but anytime a new one pops up

on the streaming service, I'm like, here we go. And I also love the doghouse, which is just about rescue dogs and people who want dogs.
And it's almost like a...

like a sort of sightly kind of matchmakery type show. Fantastic.
I endorse those messages and you can stream them all now on channel 4.

Now it's time for a special segment of today's podcast called the Holiday Guest List, which is brought to you by EE, home of the best broadband connectivity and the best mobile connectivity.

That is right. We are about to create, to fashion the perfect lineup of real and fictional VIPs, if you want fictional.
Christmas guests. Minor real.
Minor real. Minor real as well.

Who you'd love to grace your table over the holidays. So without further ado,

let's get into it. Okay, I'm going Nigella first.
She's one of mine. No way.
Oh, that's nice. Surprisingly.
It's got to be, right?

Because otherwise, you spend your entire time looking up recipes online and just going, sorry, does the turkey, is this supposed to look like that?

Whereas Nigella just has to take care of all of that. Bit of us ladies' holiday for her.

Yeah, but she would probably want to actually put her feet up, is the truth. So the good news is she's great company as well.
I'll tell you who else I've got to have.

I have got to have Claudia Winkleman.

We've got a traitor's game and you do it online and it does,

and you write it on the slate, you you can do it on an iPad, all of this sort of thing.

But my daughter actually always insists on being the person to say, the time for talking is over, but it would be so much better if it was Claudia IRL saying that to us.

We think very similarly, because my second guest is Joe Marlow. Oh, he'd be brilliant.

And again, because there are so many online Traitors games that you can play now, and you just think, I mean, he's the perfect person to have there. But I would love it.

I mean, I think if he were a traitor, you'd spot him immediately because

he would crumble. And so I think I'd like to have him there for a game of traitors, but also I think he'd be very beatable at it.

Which you'd like. Yeah, I would.
Okay.

I have to get someone from history. I'm having, I mean, you know, it's pretty root one, but he was stupendously entertaining.
Oscar Wilde.

Also, you get to show him broadband and the internet because if anything, that guy has the soul of a poster, okay?

That guy would have been, you say, hey, you know your jokes and your little one-liners and all that sort of stuff here you want like loads of people to hear them all at once really really quickly and you just get loads of you know get glazed as my children would say by everyone saying you're brilliant well Oscar Wilde, he would, okay, not only to make you laugh, but you could show him how to sort of disseminate his bon mo out into the world and I'd quite like that.

Okay, I did have a third choice, but I'm going to change my third choice in relation to that just because, you know,

I like our choices to be oppositional. So I'm going to go for Kim Wilde.
There we go. Kim Wilde would be wonderful.
Yeah, why not? She'd sing to you, would she? She'd do it. She'd do something.

No, she can do what she wants.

Kim Wilde can do what she wants. You're correct, Richard.
Kim Wild can do what she wants. I'll say you're there because we all like you, but also because Marina chose Oscar Wilde.

What's your last one? My last one, and there's literally no reason for this other than, as you know, I love weapons grade celebrity gossip. And who serves more of it than anyone? Elton John.

Says what he thinks. It would be hysterical.
Wow.

Once he's obviously connected to the internet, someone else will handle his social media activity for that day because I just think it's safer for the public.

I was thinking of someone musical because I thought one of the key things you have to have at Christmas is a proper Christmas playlist but then it occurred to me that that is literally my favourite job.

Your playlists are brilliant. Oh, that's very kind of you.

Could we do it so we all can add songs all the way up to the other day? I love this. Absolutely.
Everyone can connect to it and add stuff.

So I actually have a spare guest because I don't need a musical guest. So I'm just going to have someone who I know we would have an amazing time with.
See there, Emery. Merry Christmas.
Of course.

Oh, yeah. Don't you think? Well, that, you're welcome for that dinner party because it would be an absolutely outroarious festive occasion.

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Welcome back, everybody. I promise Steve Baxhaw, and I'm delivering.
Baxhaw says, hi, Richard and Marina. Who do you think are the top 10?

Wow. Who do you think are the top 10 fictional animals in TV and film? Well,

Steve, as you know, I love you.

I love this question. You're going to go nuts, Richard, because I haven't actually put them in a top 10 order, but I have.

What have you done?

I've got 10 amazing animal, and I've done performances this is like animals that can actually act yeah but which is best though which of them is best okay no because presumably I'll do a presumably no this is sorry I just for logic presumably there there was an 11th best

well there are some that yeah have not made the cut and it's quite sad sorry lassie

but so there was not in there so we're saying there was an 11th and I'll tell you why because there were a lot of lassie actually there were a lot of lassie a lot of sorry I'm just you I'm gonna minister i apologize i'm gonna have to keep asking this question you accept that there was an 11th placed animal but you're not accepting there's a 10th ninth i can't i'm not doing them in an order i'm going to give you 10 amazing animal performances where the animals are unbelievably good even though at least end on the one that you think is the best i'll have to decide while i'm doing it yeah okay otherwise

no i'll tell you what i'll tell you what we'll do we'll end on the seventh best why don't we do that that's a really great that'd be a great way to end this next starting that the the the item is now why don't we disappoint steve backshaw that'd be a lot that'd be a lovely way to start Don't do that.

Don't come at me with that. That's unbelievable.
But I want you to be the best you can be. You know that.
I don't want you to disappoint yourself in front of Baxhaw. You know I don't.
Right.

I'm going to start with a really vicious one. I don't know why I'm in a really vicious mood now.
But the dog in John Carpenter's movie, The Thing,

is unbelievable. Okay, there's some scenes in that, and I just was thinking about this, and I thought, I'm going to have to actually go and re-watch those.

It's like a wolf dog. The actual dog itself is called Jed.

There's a moment where it's running from. This is much less scary at the start.

Yeah, I know, but it's really not less scary. There's a scene in the kennels, which is quite traumatising, presumably also for the other dogs who are playing in that scene.
But

this dog can seriously act.

We'll try and get some of these dogs out of the way altogether. The dog, that dog in Anatomy of a Fool is brilliant, messy, is absolutely brilliant.
The dog in the artist, Argy.

Do you remember there's a whole like campaign, like, why, why is this dog not getting a nomination? This is so good. Yeah.

Let me give you some reasons why the dog is not getting a nomination. Exactly.
It's not how this business works.

Terry, who's the dog that plays Toto in The Wizard of Oz, who that iconic, an iconic performance, probably treated far better by MGM than Judy Garland was, very depressingly, but there we go.

That's a period piece.

As I say, I respect Lassie, but there were a lot of Lassie's. There were so many lassies.

That's like the MGM lion. There are a lot of MGM lions.
We've talked about this before on a previous episode, so I won't go too much into Rintin Tin, but Rintin Tin literally saved a studio,

pretty much saves Warners, is an incredible, was an incredible performer, was rescued from World War II. I mean, it's an amazing story.
So, okay, that's dealt with the dogs.

The cat in Alien, Jonesy, because that's like a cult movie. Well, it's a cat.
I'm a cat actor, because it's harder to act if you're a cat, I think. Because

it's not in your nature. Dogs are very eager to please.
Dogs are very directable. Yeah.
Cats are very undirectable. Oh, yeah.
I mean, famously,

it's directing cats in this one.

And so i would say the big it's like it's like herding actors herding actors the donkey in the bouncy bounce of an isherine oh my god she is amazing jenny okay by the way she is absolutely incredible in that film there's two extremely good actors brendan gleason

and um

colin farrell jenny i mean more than holding her own with those two she's brilliant in that i i i heard that martin macdonald who wrote it he he didn't really want her to have to work again after this she'd done so well and i as like as far as i know she lives on a sort of lovely, lovely sanctuary in County Carlo.

She's probably literally going, why is my phone not ringing? Why is my crystal? Yeah.

She's like waiting for her agent the whole time, just going, no, but I think it did well because I think Colin has done stuff, hasn't he? Since then and Brendan has done bits and bobs.

I just don't feel... And Kerry's done quite a lot, hasn't she?

No, no, it's fine. Yeah, I mean.
Yeah. I saw Kerry in the F1 movie.
I just went to see it in Waterford. And I was just thinking, oh, because we were, you know, I just...
So anyway, available. And

Martin McDonald's going, no, no.

Just change your agent, Jenny. But she was amazing.
Speaking of people who never saw Crystal the Monkey, like, that is a far better CV than almost all actors of her generation.

Crystal the Monkey, which is everything. She's in George of the Jungle, Knights at the Museum, all the Knights of the Museum, in the Spielbugs, the Fablemans, Hangover to,

she's a drug dealing monkey in hand, hangover to, she's in community. Okay, that is a better CV than most human actors of her her generation.
Okay.

I mean, I don't think there is the riskist philosophy, but I'm very much against dogs getting Oscars. But monkeys getting Oscars? Yeah.
Oh, monkeys should have Oscars for definite. There should be.

Yeah, you know what I mean? That feels like maybe it's a thing. Yeah.
I mean, she was amazing. Crystal is a mate.
I think she's Crystal's still with us, actually, but she's very, very good.

This is a bit of a weird one. I'm going to put Cheetah in from the Tarzan movies because I loved that book so much.
I don't know if anyone ever read that book. It's brilliant.

It's called Me Cheetah, and it's a sort of fake showbiz memoir, but it's a really great way of exploring that time by James Lever. Yeah, yeah, by James Lever.
And I really, that's a wonderful one.

And I, what have I got to end with? I've got. Oh my god, have you not? I assumed at the bottom of the page, you had this.
Yeah. Yeah.
I think the horse listening.

It's horses, and it's very difficult for me to get the best.

I was going to. The one who plays Joey in War Horse

is very, it's very good. Black Beauty, again, that, I mean, Black Beauty, that's amazing because that's an incredible performance.
But actually,

there's a Figo Mortensen movie called Hidago, and there's a horse in that that is absolutely extraordinary. I don't know, Steve, those are my top 10.

I've got to choose one for the top one. Maybe it is.
No, I'll choose one for the top one because I know that I know the top one. The littlest hobo.
Easy. Done.
Job done.

How many hobos were there, really? There were four. Yeah.
Yeah, but because

they had a gap.

But late hobo. Inexcusable.
No. Late hobo.

Okay. All right.
All right. Well, that's the 11th animal, then, isn't it? The latest hobo.
Rocketed to number one. Okay, thank you for that question, Steve.

I always like to work with animals.

A question for you, Richard, from John Hopkins, who says that Phineas, the brother and songwriting partner of Billie Eilish, was recently commissioned by Apple to write the new mnemonic, The Few Seconds of Music that plays with the logo for Apple TV.

How will he get paid for this? Why would Apple bother paying an A-lister who's presumably going to cost a fortune? Is he really going to be that much better than anyone else? Huh.

I wonder if that's John Hopkins, the musician. I don't know.
I'm very in his

amazing electronic musician. He would have

no idea. Yeah, exactly.
He's thinking, hold on, why can I not do that? Yeah.

First, Phineas, A-list or not? Marina. Phineas.
Oh, my God. Don't be ridiculous.
Not even close. So with this one, I think it's good publicity for Apple to have...
Phineas doing that.

This would be a buyout because these things can end up being incredibly expensive when they're not buyouts. There's been a whole history of this.

Brian Eno did the music for Windows 95, that startup chime. That was Brian Eno, and it was 3.25 seconds long and said it took him literally forever.

And he became incredibly sensitized to microseconds of music and knew exactly when it was 324, he knew it. When it was 324.
It is a recipe to send a musician mad, isn't it? The sort of thing.

Yeah, I think exactly that. And things like the I'm Loving It jingle, the kind of hip-hop version, of the I'm Loving It that went out to a million

for McDonald's that went out to a million ad agencies

around the world a German firm won it in the end and Justin Timberlake got paid six million dollars for singing it so he got over a million dollars a second but my favourite one and again this this this is why Phineas will be on a buyout rather than anything else

there's a guy called David Dundas who was he was

the son of the the Marquis of Zetland and was a sort of jingle composer had a big hit with with jeans on, so that's people were known from the 70s.

But he did, do you remember the four-note Channel 4 music?

He wrote that and he would get paid quite a nice amount of money every single time it was used.

And that was used before every single Channel 4 show, after every Channel 4 show, for around about 15 years. He made a seven-figure sum from doing

that's great for the great Aristotel permanent poverty crisis that they're always pleading. Why don't you all just write a little jingle and then we don't have to hear about your houses?

Yeah, exactly. And how expensive the roofs are.
Do your little jingle. So, Phineas, I imagine, will be, I mean, he'll be paid a lot for it because, again, it's a computer company, Richard.

Yeah, it's funny.

There's funny money for these companies.

Yeah, but they'll have this one sewn up, believe me. But, John Hopkins, if you are the John Hopkins, then, yeah, it feels like let's get John Hopkins to do the next one.
Yeah. Don't you think?

You can can send if it is the John Hopkins, send us a little four-note mnemonic that we can play on the rest of entertainment.

You've tried to send a musician mad, is what you've done.

And

how will we pay you free membership?

Vella, which is, I mean, that's worth it. How about that? That's worth more than the Marquis of Zetland got.

Marina, a question for you from Ellie. Thank you, Ellie.
Ellie asks: could paid product placements in novels become a thing?

And why are Instagram influences required to use a sponsored hashtag, but other mediums, like TV and film, don't have to? Very good question.

It has, I think it's almost like a historic thing because it has become a thing in the past and it never worked.

And there are just a few examples which I'll give you and then I'll tell you where I think this kind of sponsorship is going.

The first one that I think people knew about was Faye Weldon wrote a book called The Bulgari Connect.

connection which was bulgari the jury brand said you've got to if you do this they obviously this was in the year 2000. She was like a writer in residence for Bulgari, wasn't she? Yeah, yeah.

I mean, this is like one of those weird drops. And actually, William Boyd did a Landriver thing a bit like this, but and they said you've got to mention it 12 times.
And I think she did it 34 times.

I mean, if it's a novel called the Bulgari Collection, Connection, rather. I think there's quite a few.

I would just make my killer Dave Bulgari. Yeah.

Yes, much easier. Then there was a

couple of sort of chick-lit ones

where cars were in it. I think Ford Fiesta got a novelist to change the VW Beetle to a Ford Fiesta.

YA novels did a few sort of skincare things and make up brands. As I said, William Boyd, I think, did one, but he did, William Boyd did a sort of Land Rover kind of like a short story.

And they've said to him, You can sort of do anything you like, but could it possibly have a Land Rover in it?

And he did something called The Vanishing Game, and it was, but it was really like doing a very fancy ad, and you could click on it and little films came up. And it was kind of an adventurous thing.

William Boyd can do whatever he wants. I think it's a lot of fun.

Yeah, but I think it was it wasn't like he was publishing yeah I agree and it wasn't like he was publishing a novel it was sort of like a

I guess everyone knew what it was like a movie director doing an ad you know something a bit like that there was one book called Waiting at Hayden's which was weird it's like a digital book and you could shop the clothes that the characters were wearing or you'll probably know by the time I've got to that point you'll think actually all that feels really old-fashioned and it's not really how we consume things anymore it in Richard's book for example Richard's books have lots and lots of brand names in, but none of them are sponsored because it's a form of realism.

We've talked about this before. It's a brilliant form of shorthand.
It's sometimes just mentioning them is a job. You must have more brands than look at it.
Yeah, and no sponsorship. No sponsorship.

You know, as soon as I read this question, I'm like, hold on a minute.

Hang on a minute. I'm missing a trick here.
But

I think that the trick has moved on, really, because

people are so

something else that we talked about when we talked about product placement is that people are so used to forms of, I mean, influencing is a form of story, isn't it?

If you're a lifestyle influencer, if you're one of these people, even like if you're like Molly Mae or if you're Millie McIntosh, you know, your story is a sort of, in some ways, perhaps a lightly fictionalized account of your own life and you're constantly selling variant.

People see selling in a totally different way now. I would say that the next frontier in product placement is already happening.
It's personalized and dynamic.

When I was doing research about Marvel films, it was very interesting.

They would say, oh, yeah, you know, in all the different territories, whatever's in that cooler that they're going to walk past, it will be different drinks in every different territory.

So they're digitally inserting all these different things. That's according to territories and where you are.

What they are now starting to do, and particularly in Asia, this is really taking off, is that

it's according to your preferences, your purchase history.

And I think you'll see on streaming in the future things that will be tailored to you in the background of scenes that are literally based on your search history and the way you've interacted with the algorithm.

So if you just looked up a chair and you know that currently on Facebook every single advert is now for a chair, suddenly yeah, you'll you'll be watching the diplomat and in the background there'll be like a chair that you just looked at.

Already now in some places in Asia you can click on what a character's wearing and I suppose you could click on their chair as well. But I think sorry to be chair obsessed.

And obviously the um in gaming it's already part of that ecosystem and that there are virtual stores, there are wearables, skins, vehicles.

You don't mind it there. I think the big and the most interesting one is, which is obviously coming up at a kind of rate of knots, is when it becomes conversational in AI.

I mean, I want to say it's a minefield, but it's kind of like all mine. There's no bits of field.

That feels to me very, very dangerous. But I think that

that's already where it's going. And there are already big sort of ethics conversations about that.
Yeah, I think anything non-editorial is absolutely fine because

people have got to wear clothes and drive cars and what have you.

Yeah, the second it's plot driven or you know conversation driven then that's an issue because then what are you watching but but there is a the idea of the dissolution of a kind of shared fictional creative reality and in fact because it's so personalized to you and you'll be you're seeing a different version of the diplomat

you know you're getting a different chair to me is I think that's there's lots of uh ethical and creative uh problems with that but within AI I think in in terms of people's conversations with um with AI chatbots and so on that is a real frontier that we don't really know.

And as always, with these things, we have no idea what they're doing and

what's already happening. But I think we can assume that, as I say, like a minefield where it's kind of all mine.
Oh, my God.

One for you, Richard, from Ben, who says, Celebrities often appear on TV shows with captions with their name and profession. Do the celebrities get a say in what is displayed?

Richard, as someone with lots of strings to your bow, what is your preferred job title?

I always find it fascinating when people are, you know, like on Celebrators when I think Tom Daly was Olympian and entrepreneur.

So, yeah, you definitely do get a choice in how, I mean, listen, if he if he'd said, you know, Olympian and rocket scientist, they wouldn't have allowed it. But yes, you do have a choice.

If ever I'm introduced, I'll always try and have author first because it takes a very long time to, you know, it's if you do different things, it's like a super tanker changing, you know, how people think about you.

But my favorite version of this is always on celebrity game shows where people introduce themselves. It's always my least favorite thing in the whole world.

And they'd always say, I'm so-and-so-and-so, and you will know me from. And you're like, oh, because that is a conversation that's had to be had.

And you get people, you know, people who maybe whose main fame was in the 80s, for example, but feel like they've done a lot of work since then.

And they are, you know, are less comfortable saying, you'll know me from the 1985 Eurovision Song Contest. You know, they won't say, you'll know me from my new podcast that I'm doing about parenting.

And so, yeah, there's, there's negotiations as to how somebody is billed, both in those, what you call Astons, those, those little, you know, written things on screen, but mainly in the introduction to things I was watching, I'm a celebrity.

And that's, it's all you will know me from. Yeah.
You know, and people sort of telling you who they are. But you will know me from is it sends such a shiver down my spine.

I would always, when we did point to celebrities, I would, you know, they'd almost be kind of written out.

And I just think, I just sort of think this doesn't, it doesn't feel right well no there are times when it is just too glaring um and you've just got to be realistic about w where you will be known from and definitely Tom Daly's agent or whoever his management is who said he's got to be um Olympian and entrepreneur yeah and he's got to have a shao scene I don't care when he's leaving uh yeah

unless you know the shao scene just happened accidentally but a lot of p a lot of people now have um you know presenter and podcaster because uh you know it's not you know anybody presenter and human like like I've said to you all humans in the year 2025 have a podcast so you just there's no need but yeah it's it's it's sort of is you know everything is personal branding we know that and you know for most people it's easy if you're an actor or if you're a musician or whatever it is but if you are multi-hyphenate in any way or if you've found your way to fame via a reality TV show for example then you know that will often be someone is

you know business person and podcaster and you think huh I thought you were from Maiden Chelsea. Yeah.
I thought we knew from I don't think people know you as a business person and podcaster.

I think people know you as that person from Maiden Chelsea. But listen,

everyone's on the griff. You can only describe yourself as a businessman in this country.

We've got like three famous businessmen. They're people like Richard Branson.
I mean, no, you can't, like, maybe James Dyson. James Dyson, yeah.
Yeah. Maybe, maybe Jamie Lang.

You

know, you can't call yourself a businessman until you're that famous

for business. Yeah, actually, Jamie Lang is actually one of the only people in the world.
He's quite a successful podcaster and quite a successful businessman. So I'll let him off.

But everyone else, it's like when rich people call themselves film producer. Oh my god, that's unacceptable.
You mean someone asked you for money and you said yes.

Come on. So yeah, those job titles.
Yeah, I've always,

because author is the thing I spend most of my time doing, so I'll always call myself that. But if people call me TV presenter or whatever or producer,

people have started calling me, especially in foreign countries, comedian.

That I always, I try and really stamp down on that because if people think you're a comedian they then you have to be funny whereas i've always got away with you know anything funny i say people go oh my god he's not even a comedian whereas if you're a comedian you have to be funny so i'm not a comedian i am a uh an author businessman and philanthropist yeah philanthropist is another one that is

that's me

entirely unacceptable and podcaster yeah yeah that about wraps us up but tomorrow we have got a for our members we've got a very special behind the scenes episode from The Lion King, and like the absolute blockbuster

musical that's been setting London on fire.

Lovely sort of behind talking to everyone who's involved, how it's put together, or just behind-the-scenes stories, and what a day in the life of The Lion King looks like.

So, if you want to join for ad-free listening and all the rest of it, it's therest as entertainment.com and the bonus episodes. Otherwise, we will see you next Tuesday.
See you next Tuesday.