The ADU Playbook: Build Wealth With Accessory Dwelling Units | Kevin Trinh

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What is up, the Science Flipping podcast family?

I'm super excited about this.

There's a lot of different verticals in real estate, and you can pick and choose your lane.

And this is a lane I've been well aware of.

I myself don't do it, but I do believe more people need to be doing ADUs efficiencies.

Call it what you will.

My boy, the expert in ADUs, Kevin Trin is here.

What's up, dude?

What's up, brother?

Thanks for having me here, dude.

This was a long fight to make sure that this worked out, but I'm glad you made it to Miami.

Yep.

And couldn't be happier.

So let's dive in yep first of all i want everyone to know where to find you uh all over social media so give the handles on where to find you yeah on instagram thekevin tren uh facebook thekevin tren uh we also have the adu mastermind in san diego so if you guys are looking forward to learning more about the adu games then reach out to me all right yeah so let's talk about adu some people maybe not even heard of it right they they fix and flip or they buy rentals so they may not be that familiar with adus what are adus what are efficiencies like so what is this you're right man there's there's a lot of real estate play out there.

You already know, brother.

But ADU is one of the new trends, right?

It's the revolution right now in the real estate investing market.

So ADU basically allows you to put a casita or a small unit in the back of a property, right?

Existing property.

So you're allowed to buy a single family and then get permits and add on.

an ADU, which is anywhere between the size of 800 to 1,000 square feet in the backyard.

This allows you to really spike the equity and create massive cash flow, right?

So, out of the gate, a couple questions.

Do you need to have a certain size lot?

So, I'm sure there's certain rules.

So, I want to get into kind of the rules of the game because I think some people watching this, like, oh, I just want to do an ADU, and then they're not aware.

How big does a lot have to be?

Like, what's the minimum lot size?

So, the minimum lot size at least needs to be about five to six thousand square feet.

Okay.

And the reason being is that there is a floor error ratio that you need to understand, right?

Most of the time, it's 0.5.

In San Diego, you can get up to 0.65, so a little bit more.

You can use up more space that allows you to build more units essentially so you could put an ADU on

so when you say 6,000 square foot lot yeah that means there's already a house and you build an ADU is that what I'm saying 6,000 square foot yeah most of these houses are only a thousand square foot that we're looking at right so you know understanding the buy box criteria really will really give you the ability to build and you know add these ADUs in the bag you know so being from California like San Diego southern California this is very, very common.

Northern California, maybe not as much.

Yeah.

But you're right.

When I think about like LA, so I went to UCLA.

I think about all the homes that are the main home before someone like yourself would maybe put in an ADU made homes only like a thousand square feet

typically.

Right.

And so you still have this 5,000 square feet or more that you can do.

Now, does the ADU need to have any level of a driveway or does that not?

So the simplicity of an ADU, this is why it's so popular.

No parking requirements very minimal restriction setbacks are usually still that four or five feet range you need to have between the properties

And then the one thing that you truly need to understand is that you got to find properties that is in the right location.

Yeah, because a lot of people what happened on and I see this all the time People's like, oh, I can build an EDU spike equity, create great cash flow.

And they go and buy in the D neighborhood.

Yeah.

Bro, that's not the way to play it.

So you still need to understand the strategy behind it and get, you know, in the right location to what's your strategy always buy in the b to c neighborhoods okay right uh never a either never a either okay right a gives you a lot of problem when you're adding these adus the neighbors because of the city the the permits and all that no it's actually it's more on the neighborhoods bro oh yeah yeah the neighbor doesn't want to hear you yeah yeah yeah and so more neighborhoods more less headache if you get into you know the b's and the c's the d's won't spike the equity that much and then you won't get great cash flow from the rentals yeah right but you know this this is something that i think that a lot of real estate investors don't truly understand is that like you mentioned, real estate, there's so many different verticals, different plays out there, right?

You just got to understand, you got to be hyper local.

Yeah.

You understand your market, right?

Yeah.

So ADU is really good on the west coast.

It's growing popular in the east coast.

It's not too popular in the central of the United States yet.

Right.

So, you know,

most of the time it's multifamily in Dallas.

You know, it's funny.

It's, it's, I do a lot in the central, well, southeast, right?

So North Carolina all the way through like Florida, alabama i feel like those areas are prime for this type of business model it's getting there

is there is there a reason you wouldn't want to do it like is there a i think because the the the you know when adu was created they were created in a sense to relieve some of that affordability issue sure and affordability issue most of the time are in the dense area

so uh socal uh seattle yeah um

you know new york is another problem right now so it's growing you know is that why you're going to new york yeah business opportunity.

Business opportunity.

So, you know, we're always looking at markets to see where we can grow and scale always.

I started off doing ADUs in 2016, right?

Background is that I'm a contractor.

So I have a GC trade, right?

20 years in industry.

I've been building ADUs since, you know, forever.

So ADU has been around since 1983 in California for a lot of people who don't know this.

But because of the affordability issue, they took that play and they gave it to the public, you know, and streamlined the whole process where you can get a permit in six months.

Get this thing built.

So is that fast in your opinion?

Oh, yeah.

To get the permit or to get it built?

To get it permit.

And even built.

It's another four to six months to build after that.

So within a year or so, you should be able to have not just the permit, but the actual structure.

The actual structure up.

And you can add easily two to three units on a basic ADU play.

Okay.

So when you say units, two or three different ADUs.

So one building, right, which is about a thousand square feet.

Yes, okay.

I'm giving you an example.

It's okay.

Yeah.

Yeah, You're able to add a two-story, 1,000 square feet in the backyard, right?

That gives you the ability to split it up to be one unit on top, one unit in the bottom.

Two separate entrances.

Two separate entrances.

And then now you can also take the garage and turn that into a JADU play.

So now you can essentially add three units on a single family property.

Gosh, darn it.

Now you're, so this is why I love my podcast, right?

And now you're making me think about my rentals.

And I'm like, can I add an ADU?

Can I make more money?

Can I, you know what I mean?

So, you know, even the ones, man, this is such a cool thing.

Are you aware of, and you may not be, like, are you aware of any like states that restrict this play or that it's not legal?

I would say that I'm not aware of any states that are not restricting the play.

I would like to say that they are not, um, they don't have a statewide rule and guideline to build ADUs.

Okay, so certain local city and uh you know are having a problem with being consistent on relative to what you can actually do.

So, talk to the cities, talk, talk to

you know, the county, see what their laws and regulations of the game.

And right now there's about 10 to 12 states that allow it statewide.

But primarily the play is really in the dense area.

Can you list off a couple of those states just so people know?

Obviously, California.

For sure, the whole West Coast.

The whole literal West Coast, Washington, Washington, Oregon, California.

Texas is getting on board with it.

That's cool.

Yep.

Florida, for sure.

Yeah.

New Jersey, New York, Massachusetts.

Okay.

Some of these states are east coast west coast and it's starting to trickle into the inner cities uh inner states but it's taking some time you know there's jokingly i said you're going to new york for business but are you part of it nice yeah that's very cool so you're expanding over into the east coast yeah we truly want to see how we can grow this play into newer markets right because that's one of my other business models in real estate is just not it's not just building these a you to buy and hold and create a legacy but we're trying to look how we can scale and what we've been doing and working with um the boardroom right yeah is uh we're trying to figure out a different place so we would buy these property get them all entitle and cherry pick the ones we want to keep and build and hold and then sell the rest and title flip them i love that play

because that is just like um

uh

well The entitlement plan like apartments is huge.

It's huge right now, yeah.

Huge or even big developments where like D.R.

Horton won't buy that piece of land.

but if you go buy the piece of land get it entitled you can sell it to dr horton and map

but you take away their pain point which is getting a timeline done years and years of holding costs and all that stuff right that could be a huge play for you but in the adu space it's a lot shorter time frame and so your holding costs is not that much yeah and then you can flip these back out for and investors who are truly you know want to start an adu but don't know the process well so who who what is your business model like why would someone want to do adus what is the right business model maybe what is the wrong one?

Or what it, like you just said, like there's even an entitle play, which I didn't even think of.

But like, what's the traditional business model for an ADU?

Just the traditional model is just people buy a single property, they value add it like a burr model.

Yeah.

So I like to call it the burr model on steroids.

Sure.

Pretty much that's what it is.

Yeah.

You buy a single property, you, you rehab it, you value add it, you spike the equity, and then either you sell it or you hold it and then rent it out.

But in this case, because of the multi-unit that you're adding on, you're able to cash flow greatly on these.

and you know dude equity doesn't pay the mortgage cash flow does the mortgage bro that's right so understanding that right there will give people the understanding of using the adu so that they can build a great cash flow

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Do more people go into this short-term rental type play where this is they give the ADU more unless like a short-term rental.

Correct.

So I have some uh old clients past clients of mine where we built adus for them and they use the front house the main house as the short-term rental the other three units just through cash flow so you said three units yeah how do you get three units out of it so again to

most people would buy the single family you're on a 6 000 square foot lot and they would build a attached or detached adu in the back a thousand square foot two stories so you have two units uh-huh five to six hundred each each uh square foot on each floor and then you'd go convert the garage into a J ADU play.

So that gives you two plus one in front of you.

What is it?

JADU?

Yeah, junior at dwelling unit.

Okay.

So you just convert the garage, you put a big...

So when people think about safety or whatever, you just put a big bolt on the door or do you wall it in?

No, you wall it in.

You wall it in.

Yeah, so take the garage door out, put in a wall, give it a separate entrance.

And there's no entrance into the main.

That gets walled in.

That's a correct.

Everything is walled in.

I mean, you are literally, I love doing this podcast because I always go, God, that's so brilliant.

It is, man.

Brilliant.

Now you're coming from the contractor side of it to start.

Correct.

Now you're an investor, but you're also a contractor that knows how to get through the city and get the permits.

Now, that is a unique perspective itself.

So you mentioned it prior.

You have a mastermind?

What do you call the mastermind?

ADU mastermind.

Okay.

So if you guys are interested in this, first of all, go check out the mastermind.

Is there a website or anything that we're still working on it?

We're revamping it, but it should be out in a few weeks.

Just hit them up on Instagram and let him know that you're interested.

I mean, I'm freaking interested.

So

come from the contractor perspective, what's needed here?

Do we need to make sure

there has to be a full bath, right?

Most of these.

No, no, don't need parking.

But you do need a full bath.

What else?

Do you need segmented bedrooms?

Can they be studio size?

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, some of these we have, they're actually two ones or two twos, which is two beds and two baths, full baths.

The studio is a garage conversion that we do turn into a JDU still has a one one which is a one bath uh one full bath and one bedroom and a small kitchen that's so like almost like a studio oh my gosh so would you encourage an investor like me i have a rental portfolio

to go look at that portfolio and and think about whether an adu play would work would you would so this is or do you want to go out and and look at a blank canvas and say okay i'm going to buy this home it's a blank canvas the way i look at it is this if you have a portfolio already right we're and as a real estate estate investor, we're always looking to change up the portfolios to see how we can better it, right?

Sure.

How we can better the capital.

Make more money.

More money.

Correct.

And so you will look at the portfolio and see, okay, some property stats aren't due too well.

You would dispose of those out, go buy into a property where you can add these ADU plays and then spike the equity.

And then over 20 years, you know, that's just going to go up.

Crazy.

Tremendously.

Crazy.

Yeah.

Right now, I'll give you an example.

And your pay down on the loan is going to be so fast.

Correct.

Now, can you get a construction loan for the ADU?

Yes.

And, well, yes and no okay so here's the tough part that i went through the face of failing a couple times um in the state of california i can't speak about other states but in california when we're adding these adu plays right in the beginning we only had the basic one adu one j adu play and then getting construction loan is easy because it's below four unit count okay it's not commercial yet yeah in san diego we have something called the bonus program that allows you to put up to a maximum of unlimited unit count as long as it meets the far requirements.

Yeah.

So people were adding on 10, 15, 20 units in the backyard.

Yeah, brother.

I mean, it's getting reformed now.

So we can

be that's too much.

That's like an apartment.

It is an apartment.

Yeah.

But so you can put it on up to six.

And the problem is that with that is that when you go get a construction loan, the lenders are playing this as a commercial play now.

And that makes getting a construction loan for it a lot harder because they can't comp the ARV on these ADU units.

Right.

They don't know what it costs.

So that's the tough part about the ADU play in the very beginning because there's no true track record for yet right it's only been around since 2016 and that's why when you say there's markets like so we'll look because we do a lot of marketing in that southeast region you go into a market like the state of alabama and you there's no comps for any of it yep and that's what makes it so difficult because i've i come across homeowners who they have basically an adu play and they're trying to sell it for a premium and when you go try to comp two properties on one lot borderline impossible because it's not popular there yet like there's nothing else around

So it's, it's hard to hear.

You just, you have to say, okay, is this a good investment or not?

Correct.

But the way I look at it, so you can use a HELOC to build this.

Sure.

Yes.

You could use a construction loan for the most part.

And then you have just like double, triple, or quadruple the paydown of your loans.

Pretty much.

I look at real estate kind of with the four legs, right?

So you have depreciation for the tax write-offs.

You have income from the rents.

Then you also have appreciation of the market.

And then you have principal buy-down.

Principal buy down with the ADU play, I think, is the big one.

Big one.

And the big thing that now that you're mentioning about lending, talking about that a little bit, the beautiful part is that the government essentially is going to get into backing up these ADU loans.

So they're in the talks right now.

And I've been discussing with Tim also, Tim Heritage.

Yeah.

And we're looking at things like, you know, if governments are going to back these loans, we can potentially go out and lend to ADU investors in the future as well.

That's a big play, bro.

Huge.

Give you a context of how Tim's the right guy to be talking to.

I love Tim.

To give you some perspective, the ADU space has grown 15,000% since 2016.

15,000.

Yeah, bro.

It's crazy, man, how much growth it's hitting right now.

And to give you some also other ideas of what they're competing right now for, in SoCal, one of these units can comp for around $400,000 or $500,000 a unit.

In Seattle, these guys were competing around $700,000 a unit, brother.

And it only costs them to build $300,000 to build.

So what is it, as a contractor, what is it, what's the cost per square foot?

Now, I understand California versus Alabama is probably different.

I like to give the price range an average of how much it costs to build overall.

Because square foot is

depending on location.

That's right.

So overall, I would like to say that if you were to build one unit count, right, a unit is like a 600 square foot unit, right?

Okay.

Costs about 150 to 180,000.

Now, one ADU, two units in the back, it's going to cost you about 300 to 400,000.

But you're getting, but you're making 400,000 spread on these, dude.

That's wild.

Yeah.

Because it gives the appreciation.

Correct.

So that's where in markets that you might be in that's not California, not Oregon, there's not as much historical data.

So you got to be a little more patient there.

Correct.

If you're going to do it, my opinion or thought, and I'd love to hear your perspective, if you're going to go do the ADU play in markets that are not

as familiar with it,

be ready to probably hold it for the 10-year run

more than a five-year run.

And what we're talking about with people who are in markets that is not ADU ready, but is soon to be.

Yeah.

We would tell them to look for property that has potential and just buy and hold, like, as if you were to rehab, fix, and flip and hold.

That's right.

And then just be patient, like you said.

Patient.

It's going to come.

When it comes, you're ready for this play.

Well, and the principal buy down for 10 years.

Yeah, bro.

Like when you do want to exit.

Oh, my God.

Like, I love this.

This is, make sure you're reaching out to him.

So there's so many other, like, dynamic ways to look at this.

So we went over cost.

You need full baths.

You don't need parking.

You can construct it essentially whether it's two bed, two bed, one bed studio.

You can construct it however you want.

The real upside is the rents.

The rents.

What else am I not thinking about about the ADU play?

The simplicity of it, bro.

I mean, it's so simple.

You're talking about, you know, ground up construction, right?

Development.

Most of these multifamily would take years to get done and stabilize right um this is something you can do in a year yeah and if you have the means for it you can do multiple of these properties so like me we will look at doing five to six a year built wise and title wise we would look to do entitle about you know 20 to 30 or even 50 and sell it off and sell it off and you would sell it to people like me or do you sell it to institution who do you sell that to sell it to mainly investors right someone like myself someone like i don't want to deal with correct yeah they don't want to have to deal with the the pain point of going through the entitlement process.

And so, when you're finding a property and you say, okay, there's room for the ADU,

you essentially buy it and know out of the gate.

You're intentioned when you buy that is to go get it entitled.

That's correct, brother.

So, do you remodel the front?

I do.

You do.

Yeah.

Okay.

And so I always look the first when I look at these is first is the fix and flip look.

Okay.

Can I rehap the front value at there first?

Right.

Then I look at the backyard.

Okay.

Can I build the ADU back there?

Can I convert the garage into a JADU?

How many units can I put on this thing?

I know I'm going to make money.

I just want to know how much and how I can optimize the build to the square footage I want.

Then from there, we would go into purchasing the property, get entitle.

Entitlement process takes about six months.

After it's entitled, then we look at our entitlement portfolio and see which one we want to keep.

and build and hold, which one we want to just expo dispo it out.

And so after that, we would have both side sides of the play, right?

So it's

there an underwriting model that you look at that would be any different than like the Burr model or just a simple rental model?

Is it just the same?

You just it's almost the same.

You just have to look at a few different things.

When you're underwriting a deal for construction for an ADU, you have to take into consideration of, because you're able to tie into the existing infrastructure, but there's still upgrades you got to do.

Upgrades meaning to the water line, the

electrical line.

So if you're adding four units, you got to, raise the

panels into more voltage to have more capacity to supply power to those panels.

You're talking about electrical on the

electrical pole.

Or if it's underground, you got to go into.

So you got to look into those perspective.

And the other also things that I look at is that if it's a flat lot or if it's on a hillside, most of the time if it's on a hillside, I don't even bother.

You're out.

Yeah, I'm out because the construction that the whole time that I need to do on the

retaining walls.

Retaining walls, the whole thing is a nightmare.

It's nightmare.

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You brought up the point of

electrical.

So how do you get all the plumbing?

Is that just you dig deep and you do you pull the plumbing from the main house?

How does all that work?

So because you're going to a backyard essentially that shouldn't usually have much plumbing or if any plumbing

has no electrical tied in.

So you're starting from scratch.

You're starting from scratch, but you're taking from the front.

So what I mean by that is that even though you can't tie into the exact the house itself, the sewer line, you can go to the front where right where it meets the city street.

From there, you tie it back in.

Yeah, pull away from there and go all the way back.

Okay.

So you kind of don't have to go to the city and take less of that workout because if you were doing ground or construction for a multifamily, bro, it's heavy.

It's heavy.

Yeah.

And I've done that.

It's a lot.

It's a heavy lift.

The rental model tends to be, we kind of talked about it and I think we went left.

The rental model for the ADU is more traditional long-term.

Is it usually short-term?

Is it mid-term?

How does it scramble midterm?

Yeah.

So with that, I think it's also market, but mid-term and midterm, yeah.

So, but it is market, right?

So, like, you probably don't see much in Arizona.

Do you see much of this in Arizona?

It's not growing yet.

It's getting there, but it's not

that possible.

It's not doing it.

Yeah.

What about Vegas?

No, not yet.

No.

Yeah.

The market's still too soft over there.

Yeah.

And I say that because, like, obviously I built my career in Phoenix and I lives in Miami, Miami, but

uh, traveling nurses were a big play in Phoenix for a long time.

Oh, for sure.

I would assume these ADUs, and again, when we, but for those of you that maybe still don't recognize the term ADU, Casitas,

your, your, um,

nanny's house, like, that's all we're talking about is building a smaller secondary home on the property, right?

So, ADU is just the formal way of describing that.

Yeah, so it stands for accessory dwelling unit, basically.

That's what it means.

And and i didn't accessory dwelling unit i didn't even know that uh yeah and so that's all we're talking about grainy unit right um

so you would maybe target that kind of you know might be there for 30 days 60 days type of thing not long term not short term and that's the beautiful part about adding multiple units right you can actually play it out in different ways yeah you can do one unit for short-term rental one unit for mid-term rental two units for long-term rental so you can diversify how you want to play these units out now how do you compare this the big craze right now and this is why I want to lean into ADUs, the big craze is this pad split idea.

How do you compare this to that?

Like, what are your thoughts?

Maybe you haven't thought too much about it.

If everyone was like taking a house and like building eight bedrooms in a home and tearing down the walls, concept similar.

I don't like it as much.

I don't like it.

Like, I just don't.

So for me,

I think the institutional funds.

will find an ADU more appealing to invest in

than a home that is 2,000 square foot that has eight bedrooms in in it.

Yep.

That's me.

I don't know that to be true.

There's no historical behind either.

There's no historical.

Here's the big difference that the long-term play

that maybe will help answer that for you.

So what you're talking about is cramming multiple rooms into a square foot of space, right?

And just trying to get rentals, cash flow.

The ADU play, eventually, what's happening even right now is that they're giving you the ability to sell these units off like a condo.

So, not only are you value adding and spiking it in the equity side, eventually you're able to get parcels on these, condo map it, sell it individually.

Holy moly.

So, you have multiple exit plays on the ADU.

That is so cool.

Yeah.

Now, this is,

you can't maybe speak right now that everywhere would do this, but this is happening

in California.

Seattle is happening.

Seattle people are already selling out there.

That's why their comps are so high on one unit, 700,000.

Yeah.

Because they're selling these right now, right can condo map it sell it out and or you can just hold it and rental out california is happening already san diego is already buying into it yeah so by next year people are gonna start selling their adu so of the affordability issue i think one of the questions people are listening is like

how do i do all this like who would do that who's gonna go the city or the county to get it issued as a condo to sell it off now would it be sold as like a tick a tenant in common like you would need it you need to create an HOA I haven't gone through the whole full process yet because it's just starting starting to come down to San Diego.

But from what I know,

how it usually works is you get a condo map, you get HOA involved, create an HOA, and then it has shared water.

Electrical is all separate.

SCG ⁇ DE is all separate.

So you pay separate bills and you will sell it off just like a condo.

Dude, this is phenomenal.

Yeah.

I mean, you're right.

Like, you can't even really compare the two.

No.

I don't love the whole

pad split concept.

I get it.

I get it too.

I just, let's just say there's no real exit.

Correct.

You're just selling cash flow.

Pretty much.

And you're dealing with that many tenants.

Now, all the gurus and I love most of these guys that are selling this concept.

I get it.

Yeah, yeah.

I just like, bro, I don't have the bait.

I don't have any hair left to lose.

I don't need that many tenants in one home

that are going to turn over depending upon your business model.

So I love this place.

Same reason I like short-term rentals.

I think short-term rentals had its moment in the sun.

It did, yeah.

I believe this could be the next wave of what needs to happen.

This is the next wave, brother.

This is the golden age, man.

Because this is, I mean, you are the only one I'm aware of really, so you said thatch is.

Thatch is doing it.

There's other players out there who's, you know, buying into the ADU play, especially in the dense area.

Sure.

But, you know, I've built over close to 180 use by now.

right just from clients and even for myself alone so that experience alone i mean i don't know if there's people out there who's built this many, right, compared to what I've been doing.

And what 180 ADUs?

I built over 180 use, bro, because we've been building for clients since 2016.

And then I stopped building for clients around 2021, 2022.

Trying to do it for yourself.

Trying to sue myself.

And the reason I did for myself is actually a pivotal moment in my life, right?

Because we had some issues with construction and clients and all this stuff.

You know how construction goes, bro.

You went through that whole process.

I know how construction goes.

Yeah, brother.

And on our side, it's not because we did anything wrong to people.

it just happened to be that we grew so big that we couldn't control the scalability of it we went from a team of five to six to ten and we grew to a team of 70 doing so many adus every year right why does every recipe i try need 18 ingredients including a jar of something paste i'll never use again but will sit in my fridge for nine months i just want dinner in the oven fast that's why i love blue aprons new one pan assemble and baked meals they send you fresh ingredients that are already chopped all you do is put it all together and bake that's it.

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Subject to change.

So did it kind of crumble on itself?

Crumble?

Did it crumble on itself?

And it's not a judgment play.

So

just so everyone understands and what he's referencing to, as I was very vulnerable at this last boardroom, I talk about having a 2024 that I lost $3 million.

That's my money.

It's investor's money.

And what you went through in 2021, I think it was.

2021, 2022.

Yep.

I experienced, and I think you're going to agree with this.

I experienced this just because I could do it doesn't mean I should have done it.

Correct.

Because there's a story that goes, there's two friends that have similar lots, same everything.

They're going to build 100-story buildings on it.

One guy starts running.

He's up to like 60 stories.

The other guy hasn't even started yet.

This guy keeps looking at him.

Why are these?

Why is this guy getting smoked this bad?

Like, they're buddies.

They should.

And next thing you know, a big storm comes.

as we all know there's always a storm yep storm always comes always comes the guy who had at this point 10 stories

uh and the other guy had 60 the storm took down all 60 stories this guy remained with his 10 yeah and the guy asked the the other buddy like what were you doing this whole time were you even working he's like yeah i was underground i was going deep as i go up so my infrastructure was deep

as i go up yeah that story just epitomizes my struggles in 2024.

i was running running really fast because I was building up, but I damn sure wasn't building down.

Same with me, brother.

Yeah.

We were building up so fast.

We look at this ADU play like this is the time, right?

We had to go.

And

we didn't have the great foundation we needed to be solid enough to throw this thing.

And so that's why we crumble.

And that's the other thing that I want to take this into the mindset for real estate investors that's getting into the ADU play.

I mean, we all want that passive income, but passive income, it's not passively built.

It's passive when it's it's built.

That's right.

A lot of people don't realize that, brother.

Yeah.

You know?

And I would even make the argument, I just never, I don't think real estate ever, until you're at a true economy is a scale.

I know, bro.

I just don't, like, true economies of scale.

Then you could probably argue it's passive.

Yep.

Anything under 100,

it's just, there's no way.

There's no way, brother.

Dude, you're still, you're still in the rat race.

But again, everyone has a different end goal.

Yeah.

I have students who just want $10,000 a month, $15,000 a month, and cash.

I I love that, by the way.

Sometimes I wish I was that guy.

I know, me too.

I just like that.

I know.

That's great.

$15,000 a month, $20,000 a month requires maybe three of these properties with ADU place, right?

You think about it.

So it's very doable when you look at that and that approach, you know, for me,

my scalability and how I look at things is a lot more great like you.

So definitely getting to that $100 million plus portfolio in the ADU space.

And then just grow from there, man.

Just remember, build deep as you're building up.

That's right.

Everybody, Kevin Trin, if you're interested in what we just talked about, which I'm incredibly interested in, you have a mastermind coming up, hit him up on Instagram.

Kevin, is it just Kevin Trin or the Kevin Trin?

The Kevin Trin.

I think I started that.

The just.

Anyways, this guy's phenomenal.

He's in my mastermind boardroom.

It's really one of the smartest in the space.

Comes with a contractor's license.

Hit him up, ask questions.

He is a genuine human being.

I really appreciate you.

I appreciate you two, brother.

South out, dude.

Looking forward to talking more about it on the next one.

100%.

Guys, if you like this and you think a couple of people need to hear this, please share this with your friends.

I appreciate you, and we'll see you on the next episode.

Peace.